AuthorTopic: Your 9-11 conspiracy thread  (Read 40215 times)

Offline Chloe

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Re: twin towers and symbolism
« Reply #45 on: August 28, 2012, 11:55:14 AM »
PS:  Also, if the towers represented the twin pillars in Masonry, which in turn may represent 'good' and 'evil' - the destruction of them could also mean a destruction of the 'old' ideas of good and evil?  This rubbishing of the two 'old' ideas can certainly seen in a lot of the New Age ...

Offline Surly1

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Re: Your 9-11 conspiracy video
« Reply #46 on: September 11, 2012, 08:28:08 AM »
Pretty doggone good. Give it five minutes.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/MmbPh3u7_q0?rel=0" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/MmbPh3u7_q0?rel=0</a>
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Offline agelbert

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Re: Your 9-11 conspiracy thread
« Reply #47 on: September 11, 2012, 08:48:51 PM »
Surly1,
This being 9/11, I've decided to let the Diners in on some knowledge I have as a former air traffic controller that convinced me it was an inside job within a day or so of the event. The tip-off for me was the Pentagon.

I aired this knowledge on the Huffington Post years later (I think it was in 2005) when she finally couldn't censor comments on it because an article was written on the subject by some movie star or writer (AFTER Arianna had denied Jesse Ventura the freedom to write on 9/11 at hufpo). An army of Hasbara assholes were out in force (you could tell they were A. not Americans by their writing and B. They had all these cartoon character avatars). I took one of them apart piece by piece and he ended up asking me where I lived.  :evil4:   :evil7:

I got a little more aggressive in my comments and, of course, they were censored.

So what do I know? Washington D.C. is wall to wall radar AND is a prohibited area. That means you fly in and out of Reagan International on a VERY specific route along the Potomac (River route). The "excuse" that the Tracon (tower radar approach control) was  "out of communication" with the "outside world" was the most outlandish piece of bullshit I have ever heard. Remember, THAT was the reason given for them not communicating with the Air Force to scramble jets (in this case jets were ALREADY in the air being sent to the wrong areas). 

Potomac Tracon (terminal radar approach control) controls the approach of all aircraft coming into Reagan International and several other area major airports. Potomac Tracon is 33 miles west southwest of Reagan and the Pentagon. There is no way in God's good Earth that ANY lack of communications occurred between them and Reagan Tower. There are about SIX levels of redundancy in communications from several transmitters on dedicated frequencies, back up transmitters and receivers on each frequency to fiber optic land lines that provide voice and remote radar data from the overlaying artcc (enroute radar traffic control center 10,000 feet and above) to satellite feed backups for everything. There are multiple lines to various Air Force Bases around with INDEPENDENT systems for a fail safe operation in case of nuclear missile attack.

Washington Center was tracking the aircraft headed for the DC area. The false generated targets from NORAD exercises is total bullshit because NORAD doesn't work airplanes! Air traffic controllers work airplanes! And we know damned good and well what a computer generated false target looks like. I trained people and ran the target generator scenarios myself as a training department instructor during the late 70s. Now they've got LCD displays and then we had CRT (cathode ray tube) round scopes but the radar and computer operation to translate a primary (no transponder to give altitude data) target to a data bock with speed and direction has not changed. I could NOT, as an instructor generating targets to make my students sweat, generate those targets onto an active display. All training targets have a "T" on the data block anyway. NO ONE in atc was confused due to "exercises".


Back to 9/11, the twin towers had been hit and every atc facility and their mothers knew that aircraft had hit (at the management level within minutes - less than 15). At the controller level, you can be sure the people in Washington Center were told by controllers from Boston center and New York center that some hijackings were in progress BEFORE the planes hit the towers. Next you have this primary target (no transponder to give altitude data - just some moving object that provides a radar return above 50 mph) headed towards the DC prohibited area. Immediately Washington Center tells Potomac Tracon who, in turn, tells Reagan Tower. This must be done because no altitude info is available so you don't know who's airspace this NORDO (NO RADIO) potential hijack is going to violate in the capital.

But here's the kicker. We HAD TO routinely save two weeks of radar tracking data with a 100% accurate record of air traffic movements in case a loss of separation standards had occurred (known in atc parlance as a "deal" that you could get disciplined and possibly fired for). Controllers don't report "deals" unless they can't avoid it unless it was a near mid-air collision, the pilots saw each other and are screaming bloody murder. Again, the guy/gal on position normally is not being monitored by a sup so they cross their fingers. The pilots land and call the facility or wait a few days to do it. Sometimes they don't bother. If they do, your  sup tells the training department to pull the voice tapes (also saved for two weeks) and the radar data to see if you went below minimum separation standards. You, the controller, are required to write up a statement summarizing the events. The controller knows his goose is cooked here so he doesn't dare lie.

When the "aircraft" that hit the pentagon performed it's impossible maneuver of a descending 360 degree spiraling turn at around 500 mph the tower radar recorded the track and the speed, Potomac Tracon recorded the track and the  speed and Washington center recorded the track and the speed. The paltry visuals the Pentagon released of a MISSLE striking the pentagon was blatantly obvious to me. I'm very experienced in seeing planes fly near buildings; they move MUCH slower than that. It was a missile. All they had to to in ATC was look at those radar tracking tapes. A missile has 1,000 mph or greater velocity. The thing that hit the Pentagon was moving a lot faster than 500 mph. It's on the radar data. If the data from THREE INDEPENDENT ATC FACILITIES was destroyed, that is undeniable proof that Donald Rumsfeld and Cheney ran an inside job, PERIOD. Guess what? When I mentioned the radar data on hufpo the Hasbara dude asked where I lived.

But there is more. A B767 is, as you know, is an airplane. Airplanes have a limitation in flight. The turning radius is a function of the bank angle and speed. That means that the faster you go, the steeper you need to bank the airplane in order to keep your turn radius, as in a 500 mph jet, from being several miles in radius (if you are turning 360 degrees as was the case on 9/11). Missles are not airplanes and don't have this problem because they use vectored thrust, not bank angle, to control turning radius.  The 360 degree banked turn the alleged B767 executed in a descending spiral to smack the Pentagon was NOT possible for a B767 at that speed due to the stresses the required bank angle would have on the aircraft (look ma, no wings!).

Aircraft in a 30 degree banked angle turn



In any aircraft from a piper cub to a B747, when you exceed 60 degrees of banked turn, you are oulling 2 Gs plus on the entire aircraft structure. Above 60 degrees, the Gs increase exponentially. Aerobatic aircraft require plus or minus 6 G strength for FAA certification. Commercial jet liners lose their wings (B767 max allowed plus 2.5 Gs and minus 1.0 G to avoid structural damage) trying to keep a 70 or 80 degree bank angle at 500 mph in a descending spiral needed to cover the track the government says was traversed  to smack the Pentagon. Only a missile or a fighter aircraft with a missile ready to fire could do that.

As a matter of fact you COULD beef up the wings of a B767  DRONE to do this maneuver (the only possible scenario in the second twin tower strike due to speed and turn rate). However, at the Pentagon, the hole was too small. It was a missile.

Pilots For 9/11 Truth Presents "9/11 INTERCEPTED" - (Full Film) MUST WATCH!
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 10:22:14 PM by agelbert »
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Offline RE

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Re: Your 9-11 conspiracy thread
« Reply #48 on: September 12, 2012, 12:42:34 AM »
Man I JUST Caught this one in time!  I think I can get it up before the clock rolls over for 9-11 on the Blog!

AB, you should have sent me a PM on this one!  Homegrown Diner Blogger 9-11 on the Anniversary is IMPORTANT!

RE
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Offline RE

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Re: Your 9-11 conspiracy thread
« Reply #49 on: September 12, 2012, 12:53:24 AM »
Man I JUST Caught this one in time!  I think I can get it up before the clock rolls over for 9-11 on the Blog!

AB, you should have sent me a PM on this one!  Homegrown Diner Blogger 9-11 on the Anniversary is IMPORTANT!

RE

YES!  Just made it!  Important because the Permalink is auto generated and it should have 9-11 in it.

Now I can edit it up to look better, but the permalink is in place.  PHEW!

RE
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Offline RE

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A Dinerís Eye View of 9-11
« Reply #50 on: September 12, 2012, 01:23:35 AM »
A Dinerís Eye View of 9-11 by Diner Agelbert now UP on the Diner Blog!

It is a Feature Article, and also the Pilot's Video incorporated into the article is the Diner Feature Video right now.

RE
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Offline agelbert

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Re: Your 9-11 conspiracy thread
« Reply #51 on: September 12, 2012, 01:54:01 AM »
RE,
About the 9/11 post, I was just reading the Surly1 post and decided to reply as an extemporaneous thing. I had no plans to do so. I went round and round with my brother controllers (all retired) after 9/11 and they shoved their heads straight into the sand as quickly as possible but they KNEW! Like you say, EVERYBODY KNOWS. Well, they knew and just didn't want to talk about it. I told you before one of them was CIA from Vietnam (flew for Air America). That shithead posted a big flashy photo display of how "they"(ay-rabs) attacked America. It was very professionally done. Said a "friend of his" prepared it. Uh uh...  This same guy that appeared to be "mourning" was inordinately bubbly and said in an e-mail how he probably had run into Mohammad Atta at the flight school near Fort Myers, Florida he frequented. The flight school is at an airport that was one of the ones the CIA used during the IRAN-Contra caper run by Oliver North to fly drugs into the USA and weapons out to the contras. Chucky ended up giving me the finger because I asked him too many pointed questions.  :icon_mrgreen:

Chucky was famous for using FAA telephone lines to run query software at night (while he was home) to check every bulletin board and CompuServe fax outlet looking for freebee programs to download on the tax payer dime. The weasel would then claim they were "his" software! Him and his stupid TRS-80 Radio Shack piece of crapola. :laughing6:

The day after he transferred out we reformatted the hard drive to kill all his spy shit on the IBM PC with windows 3 (I believe). What a slippery thief that guy was. But I digress. 9/11 has a very sick inertia because a very large group of otherwise decent people just doing their job are forced to keep queit about a huge crime. Later on, if they decide they want to talk, they fear doing so because they will have to admit that they kept quite about it for several years. The top dogs know this and know they can DO IT AGAIN because everyone that remained mum the first time is now an accessory.  Mafia tactics by our fascist gooberment. :(
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Offline Surly1

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Re: Your 9-11 conspiracy thread
« Reply #52 on: September 12, 2012, 08:53:32 AM »
  :icon_mrgreen:
9/11 has a very sick inertia because a very large group of otherwise decent people just doing their job are forced to keep quiet about a huge crime. Later on, if they decide they want to talk, they fear doing so because they will have to admit that they kept quite about it for several years. The top dogs know this and know they can DO IT AGAIN because everyone that remained mum the first time is now an accessory.  Mafia tactics by our fascist gooberment. :(

Great, great post, AG. Am going to post it on the DD FB site.

The "sick inertia" could also be referred to as "normalcy bias." The "big lie" has been repeated over and over and over again to the point where, if you even question to Official Liturgy, people start making finger circles against their temples. You post is a dispassionate, unarguable view from someone who has earned the right to have formed an opinion.

And your additional point here about the complicity of the silent speaks volumes as well. I had never even considered that before.

Sheeple all.
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Offline Surly1

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Re: Your 9-11 conspiracy thread
« Reply #53 on: September 12, 2012, 09:00:03 AM »


Jet fuel did this, right?

Anyone out there still believe that this is the result of jet fuel?

9/11: A Conspiracy Theory - Everything you ever wanted to know about the 9/11 in under 5 min
Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About The 9/11 Conspiracy Theory In Under 5 Minutes


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/A_IZaUuK_d0?rel=0" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/A_IZaUuK_d0?rel=0</a>
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Offline reanteben

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Re: Your 9-11 dustification thread
« Reply #54 on: September 12, 2012, 11:02:54 AM »
anyone out there still believe that that is the result of controlled demo, LOL? surly, that is DUSTIFICATION. you won't find it in the OED.  ;D

fantastic pair of comments, agelbert. I sent them to my retired CIA dad.

I have to say i've been underwhelmed by the response at DD (glassy-eyed silence, mostly) to  judy wood's scalar 9/11. other than el gallinazo and me, and nobody (i  do believe) and peter (on the fence), the dustification theory has been greeted with a deathly silence.

the woodian theory is even inclusive of special-order drones (for navigating and penetrating the towers) and nanothermite. the woodian theory demands to know Where Did The Towers Go?

RE won't touch ZPE with a ten-foot pole (blocked what-chakra slash peak oil bias  :P), but, agelbert, I don't believe you were around for the (just renamed by me) dustification thread, which, because of the links in it, is a useful gateway to the Truth about 9/11:

http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/forum/index.php?topic=277.0


Offline Surly1

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Re: Your 9-11 conspiracy thread
« Reply #55 on: September 12, 2012, 02:25:10 PM »
Perhaps some of the glassey-eyed-ness regarding Dr. Wood's theories is that these posts tend to disappear down the memory hole once they drop off the "top 100" recent posts, which is generally how I use the Forum.

Also, I have no idea to what the prevailing temperature is regarding 9-11, although as I re-read the thread that you posted (thanks, BTW, for rescuing it from the Memory Hole), I suspect most would agree with Peter. I could be wrong, but I think it a safe bet to imagine most of the Diners here being are highly skeptical of the goobermint-MSM prevailing narrative and the manipulative ways of Bernays' heirs...

It could be that we are preaching to the choir. It may be that scalar weaponry is so exotic that no one knows enough to venture an opinion.

On one thing we can probably agree: that 9-11 was indeed PNAC's coveted "New Pearl Harbor," which led to total war on the Bill of Rights and the common people of the FSA. Would that the Fourth Amendment had as well-rganized and well-funded a defense lobby as the Second.
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Offline WHD

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Re: Your 9-11 conspiracy thread
« Reply #56 on: September 12, 2012, 04:17:26 PM »
Agelbert,

That was one to be proud of. There is a man standing up for the truth. Thank you for that. And the following comments. It speaks too, to how easily manipulated Americans are, and how rotten America is, that this could be secret for so long.

Offline agelbert

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Re: Your 9-11 conspiracy thread
« Reply #57 on: September 12, 2012, 04:47:43 PM »
Reanteben,
The issue of all the details as to how the buildings were brought down is certainly worth study. Architects and Engineers for 911 are doing just that.



However, I agree with Surly1 on this:
Quote
On one thing we can probably agree: that 9-11 was indeed PNAC's coveted "New Pearl Harbor," which led to total war on the Bill of Rights and the common people of the FSA. Would that the Fourth Amendment had as well-organized and well-funded a defense lobby as the Second.

Since your father was CIA, have you asked him what he thinks?
Was your father in field operations or based at Langley doing analysis?
The CIA is highly compartmentalized and operates on the "Need to know" principle so, unless your father was in a foreign country doing field work for the Directorate of Operations, he would not be any more knowledgeable about 9/11 than the average citizen. Then again, if he knew something that compromised the "company" (inside parlance for the CIA), he would never tell you. That's just the way they operate. Read "Neck Deep" by Robert Parry for some CIA modus operandi background. :(

While we are on the subject of 911, I'd like to mention a deliberate distraction that was put out there when people began questioning the wacky conspiracy theory the gooberment and media were shoving down our throats (19 punks with single engine Cessna flying skills did the whole caper).

A team of propagandists put out the bullshit that there were NO aircraft hitting the buildings. They claimed what we saw were holograms. They ran a credible scam but, like a magician, they made people look in the wrong place so as to confuse the issue. When someone wants you to "look" with just your eyes, you get fooled as long as you don't "look" with any other senses. It was really quite clever. People had figured out that the planes DID NOT bring down those towers.

So-o-o-o the propagandists, in an attempt to discredit the people alleging that the twin towers were destroyed by explosives, not airplanes, made the ridiculous argument that there were NO AIRPLANES!


Reapeat after me: That's a hologram, not an airplane, you are getting very sleepy. When you awake you will remember that Slavery is Freedom

Of course there was an army of naysayers on the internet saying how the Arab baddies were out to get us and doubting the gooberment was treason or "unpatriotic". The line about "we must trust the government because Bush and Cheney know things we don't" by people like Pat Boone was echoed throughout the internet as well. The propagandists were working the "problem" of people out there using critical thinking skills from several directions.

When I read the hologram hypothesis, I thought about it. I fell in to the trap because I watched those buildings come down like they were riding a down elevator. It was obvious the aircraft didn't do that because the top parts would have fallen asymmetrically rather than in their footprint. As a matter of fact, the first building DID lurch a little (about 15 feet) to one side before it came down minutes later. I believe the boyz running the charges from building seven said we better bring this sucker down NOW before the top 20 something floors or so lurch off to the side and take out some buildings we don't want taken out.

Back to the hologram hypothesis. I saw the accidental 911 documentary from the French Camera team that had been working with some Fire Department nearby. They heard the noise and filmed the first impact. Then it hit me. The NOISE. Sound waves from a moving jet aircraft produce a Doppler effect. It is impossible for a hologram to generate a Doppler effect ALL OVER NEW YORK CITY. Sure, you can do it in a movie theater but that was not a movie theater. Just as you hear the sound pitch of an approaching object climb, so you hear it descend as the Doppler effect spaces the sound waves farther and farther apart. You can clearly here the sound of the engines of a jet moving AWAY from the camera's position as it approaches the building.

The hologram hypothesis is disinformation and FURTHER PROOF that the oil oligarchy that runs the USA will spend money, a lot of money, to pull the wool over people's eyes.

Reanteben, it has been 11 years. There is only one thing you or anyone else needs to ask about 9/11.


CUI BONO?
I agree with Surly1 as to who benefited.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 05:06:47 PM by agelbert »
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Offline g

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Re: Your 9-11 conspiracy thread
« Reply #58 on: September 12, 2012, 05:11:28 PM »
Agelbert, your posting has certainly had me thinking about all of this since reading it, and
I was wondering if you had any ideas about that first attack, that appeared to botched, by the cleric from New York. I was wondering if there is something there that everyone is overlooking. Two terrorist attacks on the same target always struck me as very odd.   GO

Offline agelbert

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Re: Your 9-11 conspiracy thread
« Reply #59 on: September 12, 2012, 07:47:04 PM »
WHD,
You are very welcome. by the way, I made a comment on your last article that has been bumped because of all the posts made since then. Thanks for your great work.  :emthup:
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