Are we kidding ourselves?

[buzzard]

We can wrap this thing up right now. As we all know the only truly sustainable energy is gathered from the sun by plants using photosynthesis. In the ancient past humans could utilize stored photosynthesis in the form of wood given the small populations involved. As the number of humans increased it became more problematic to sustain any kind of complex society/civilization. We began burning our capital. Today with over 7 billion of us little buggers running around all over the place it ain't possible to even live off what the plants give us.

Any further discussion is whistling in the wind. We're pretty good at whistling though, ain't we?

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[monsta666]

There are several factors at work chief among them is the simple lack of awareness. While most people are somewhat aware that the amount of energy we currently use is unsustainable most people have not done the maths to prove that is so. As a result people are not only more easily swayed by unrealistic claims made from pro renewable or nuclear energy groups they also do not know the magnitude of overshoot we are in. If there was a greater appreciation of the amount of energy we gain with fossil fuels then perhaps there would be a bigger push towards a more sustainable lifestyle.   

The other big reason is there is a normalcy bias which results from the fact that man has always increased his energy usage year after year and since this trend has occurred for a long-period of time it is assumed this trend can carry on indefinitely. This incorrect assumption also fits into the meme of social progress and unlimited human innovation where man has always transcended resource/energy scarcity through sheer intellectual brilliance. As people often say:

"The stone age didn't end because man ran out of rocks so the oil age won't end for the same reasons."

This on-going trend in energy usage - and the subsequent incorrect assumptions that rise from it - is not limited to energy use. For a long time house prices rose in the US and it was assumed that this trend would continue forever. This trend of rising house prices had only been around for 50-70 years so we can see how easily these believes can take hold. However the energy trend has gone on much longer so it will take a lot greater shock for people to reassess these assumptions. It is this reason why I think the vast majority of people still believe we will get out of this recession despite all the evidence to the contrary as there is a lot of inertia between what we think in our minds and the physical realities we keep seeing.

Other secondary reasons come from the fact there are many elites who benefit from the current status quo. Revealing the truth would be an admission that this paradigm is not only unsustainable but it is also wrong which is a greatly damaging to the ego and reputation of the people in power. More important however this admission could be a threat to ones power and it is quite likely that if J6P really discovered the truth there would be widespread panic and revolution. After all if there is not enough energy or resources for everyone then people will fight for their survival and will look to scapegoats to blame for this mess. Best to keep the masses ignorant with misinformation and distractions. My list is by no means exhaustive and I am sure other posters could highlight other reasons but I feel the ones I highlighted are the main reasons.

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[Jb]

Buzzard,

Bingo. The minute we separated ourselves from the natural flows of energy, we were doomed. We've borrowed, cajoled, begged, hidden and obfuscated the underlying truth for so long, we don't know how to find our way back home anymore.

Cheers -

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[widgeon]

Yep.

If all goes well we'll be back at that level again in a couple hundred years.

If it doesn't go well we'll get there sooner, if any of us remain at all.

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[buzzard]

I don't know why I'm even replying to this thread other than to say that I have been known as a thread killer in the past and started a thread only to kill it in the first post. Must be a personal record. But what I said still stands. It is true that we have deviated so far from our original sustainable roots that the way home seems remote. Now if I can manage to kill the entire category "Sustainable Energy" that will be an accomplishment. Then we can get down to the important topics like what is better: Ezra Brooks or Jack Daniels?

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[RE]

I don't know why I'm even replying to this thread other than to say that I have been known as a thread killer in the past and started a thread only to kill it in the first post. Must be a personal record. But what I said still stands. It is true that we have deviated so far from our original sustainable roots that the way home seems remote. Now if I can manage to kill the entire category "Sustainable Energy" that will be an accomplishment. Then we can get down to the important topics like what is better: Ezra Brooks or Jack Daniels?

Glenlivet Single Malt Scotch Whiskey for Spirits. 

There is sustainable energy, just likely not enough to support 7B people.  Peter has maintained in the past that there is enough if properly allocated out, but I still disagree with that idea.

1B people though I think is sustainable with good systems set up for energy collection with conservative energy use practices.

One can descend into Negativity and Hopelessness in the Uber Doomer Model of Guy McPherson, I prefer not to go that route.  The main thing is to survive the initial phases of the Die Off, Exteminate the Vermin currently running this show and then work together to Build a Better Tomorrow. 

RE

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[Golden Oxen]

Glenlivet Single Malt Scotch Whiskey for Spirits. 

Haig&Haig Pinch for me, with a twist of lemon peel. 
 

Details Haig

Haig

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[Petty Tyrant]

Ah, good old DIMPLE,

Remember the old Johnny Walker ad; Chinese bartender: "I rike Jorry Walker, hard to say, easy to pour..."

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