AuthorTopic: The Path of Totality: The Last Great Adventure  (Read 21198 times)

Offline RE

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Re: Total Eclipse of the SUN☼: SUN☼/Diner Convocation 2017
« Reply #45 on: July 22, 2017, 02:50:39 AM »
People like you keep people like me from spending anything on cameras. As long as you need all the latest and greatest, last years model gets given away again and again. We bought only 1 new camera, a Yashica, 400$ back when u put in rolls of film. Peaches wanted to be sure she could zoom in on Jasmine singing in front of the school from her seat. Of course she then went right up front creating a nuisance and distraction, so the old kodak or a disposable would have done just fine. Shortly after that, my dad turned up with a little digital for stills and a digital camcorder that were just a little old,  so left with us again. He's been experiencing precious moments through one eye and a camera lens since Super 8 reel to reel. My grandfather, rest his soul, loved photography and did the darkroom for Island Studios, a family business when there was only black and white . As for me, a mobile phone cam now captures or records everything i want.

Mobile phones take dogshit pictures.

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Offline Petty Tyrant

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Re: Total Eclipse of the SUN☼: SUN☼/Diner Convocation 2017
« Reply #46 on: July 22, 2017, 04:05:55 AM »
They look fine to me and i can still get a better pic of the Eclipse than you by buying a copy of national geographic. The point is whether this years whizz bang getup is appreciably better than last years and whats the depreciation rate. If it was worth anything after 2 yrs it wouldnt get given to me.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 04:27:18 AM by Uncle Bob »
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Offline monsta666

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Re: Total Eclipse of the SUN☼: SUN☼/Diner Convocation 2017
« Reply #47 on: July 22, 2017, 04:31:58 AM »
Unless you have good natural lighting then it is my experience phone cameras give sub-par pictures. Yes a good photographer can overcome some shortcomings but the quality to be gained using actual cameras will give a noticeably improved picture.

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Re: Total Eclipse of the SUN☼: SUN☼/Diner Convocation 2017
« Reply #48 on: July 22, 2017, 04:44:11 AM »
The first digital cameras were 2 mpxl. A few yrs later the first phone cameras were 2 mpxl. 10 yrs later phone cameras are 12 mpxl, so to me, unless i want to zoom in and count eyelashes, i dont care about spending money on having the best, which will be throw away in 3 years.
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Offline RE

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Re: Total Eclipse of the SUN☼: SUN☼/Diner Convocation 2017
« Reply #49 on: July 22, 2017, 05:30:47 AM »
Phone cameras have a fixed lens smaller than a dime.  Forget how many megapixels, the lens quality doesn't even match up to El Cheapo digital cameras, much less Zeiss optics. There is no optical zoom at all, only digital.  You can't frame up shots and compose the picture properly.  They don't do bursts, shooting 10 frames/second so you can catch the exact moment the ball leaves your son's hand  as he strikes out the last batter at State Championships. They don't have shutter speeds fast enough to freeze the ball in mid-air. They don't do slow motion or time-lapse in video.  You can't do a slow motion video of your daughter's uneven bars routine.  You can't put them on a tripod to stabilize the camera.  If you are at a HS Football game sitting at the 50 yard line making a video of your son the Star Quarterback as he scrambles and dodges tacklers and breaks away to run for a Touchdown all you will get is a wobbly low resolution vid with your son a blurry little dot on the screen.  If I am sitting next to you with my JVC on a tripod, my video will be in full HD resolution and I will track your son smoothly across the field.  They are REALLY bad in low light conditions besides all of that.

All phone cameras are good for is taking selfies and snapshots of your collection of classic cars on a nice sunny day.  If that is all you do with a camera, then you're fine, but if you wanna get some decent pics while you are out on a cruise here doing some Whale Watching or of the Grand Canyon while you are visiting the National Parks, you're an idiot if you try to do it with a phone cam.  It's ludicrous to even compare them to El Cheapo pocket cams, some of which come in under $100 these days.

Far as replacing them every 3 years, no, my JVC is over 3 years old already and will probably last me another 5 at least if I live that long.  Same with my Samsung kit with the interchangeable lenses.  The El Cheapo probably would still be good if I hadn't dropped it a couple of times.  Anyhow, that one only cost me $150, got 3 years out of it, that is $50/year.  I spend more on cancerettes in a week.  Besides that, even if I did replace every 3 years, so what?  That's how often I upgrade my computers.  Technology improves over time, at least it did for the last 30 years.  I don't expect to have to replace my cameras though anytime too soon.

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« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 05:34:54 AM by RE »
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Online Surly1

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Re: Total Eclipse of the SUN☼: SUN☼/Diner Convocation 2017
« Reply #50 on: July 22, 2017, 06:04:06 AM »
The first digital cameras were 2 mpxl. A few yrs later the first phone cameras were 2 mpxl. 10 yrs later phone cameras are 12 mpxl, so to me, unless i want to zoom in and count eyelashes, i dont care about spending money on having the best, which will be throw away in 3 years.

Excellent point. Actually, phones take an acceptable photo over a wide range of lighting conditions, consistent with what most users want, which is a selfie in most cases. Not suitable for more critical photography, or for pro results.=, without significant add-ons, like the DX0 One, which I cannot bring myself to get. Plugs into lightning connector and uses the phone as a control and display for an outboard camera.
http://www.dxo.com/us/dxo-one



Actually, under the right circumstances a phone camera will make a photo that is just fine. The trick is creating the right circumstances. I saw this a couple of years ago by a guy named Lee Morris, who demonstrates that photography is all about getting the light right by doing a fashion shoot with an iPhone:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/TOoGjtSy7xY?ecver=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/TOoGjtSy7xY?ecver=1</a>

It's NEVER about the gear. It's about getting the most out of what you have, and paying attention to light.

Your point about throwing it away after three years is right on the money.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 06:51:04 AM by Surly1 »
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline RE

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Re: Total Eclipse of the SUN☼: SUN☼/Diner Convocation 2017
« Reply #51 on: July 22, 2017, 06:52:24 AM »
It's NEVER about the gear. It's about getting the most out of what you have, and paying attention to light.

Yea, right.  Try doing this with your smart phone.  ::)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/jvw6A5yHK8o" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/jvw6A5yHK8o</a>

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Re: Total Eclipse of the SUN☼: SUN☼/Diner Convocation 2017
« Reply #52 on: July 22, 2017, 07:22:13 AM »
It's NEVER about the gear. It's about getting the most out of what you have, and paying attention to light.

Yea, right.  Try doing this with your smart phone.  ::)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/jvw6A5yHK8o" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/jvw6A5yHK8o</a>

RE

This is the 2nd or 3rd time you have made this claim.  I get the impression you mostly do set shots where you have control over the light.  That's not my experience.  My experience is mostly in Sports Photography, first for the Columbia Spectator, then shooting Gymnastics.

In this area, it IS a lot about the equipment you use.  Another gadget I coveted for my Nikon F2S but never got was a Motor Drive, to do the equivalent of what burst phtography does today.  It's not ALL about the equipment, in sports you need to know the sport you are shooting well enough to anticipate the action.  You don't have any time to twiddle around with your settings.  You have to run around the sidelines a lot to get the angles you want, so you need a lightweight tripod to do it, or a monopod. For Football, you need a LOOONG lens.  For indoor action like gymnastics you need a FAST 80mm lens, because you can't use flash and you need to freeze the action.  Parents won't buy your pics if there is blur in the leap on the balance beam, and if your shot isn't PRECISELY at the peak of the leap with 180 degree split, they also won't buy.


Without a Motor Drive while shooting for the Spectator, it was a matter of luck to get the precise instant of a bat contacting a ball.  When I got shots like that, they made it onto the Front Page, not the back page of the Sports Section.  I lucked out and got a few of those, but with a motor drive I could have done it at every game.  I would have burned through a lot of film of course in those days, but now this is no issue.  I have a 128 Gig Ultra Fast SD card.  I can shoot 1000s of pics to get the ones I want.  You can't do any of this with a phone.

On this occasion, there just is no way you could photograph and video the TOTAL ECLIPSE OF THE SUN☼ with a phone.  It's ludicrous.  You HAVE to have the right equipment.

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« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 07:25:07 AM by RE »
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Online Surly1

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Re: Total Eclipse of the SUN☼: SUN☼/Diner Convocation 2017
« Reply #53 on: July 22, 2017, 07:56:08 AM »

On this occasion, there just is no way you could photograph and video the TOTAL ECLIPSE OF THE SUN☼ with a phone.  It's ludicrous.  You HAVE to have the right equipment.

RE

Denying the claim not made is the first instinct of the scoundrel.

What I WROTE was that, under the right conditions, even a cell phone can make remarkable pictures. Try reading for comprehension, you insufferable troll.

As for sports photography, when I was younger I won national awards for sports photography, so gofuckyourself. By all means, lecture me about photography.

The big issue is that people often develop a Jone s for the next, the biggest, the shiniest, the newest. I know, because I'm still recovering.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

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Re: Total Eclipse of the SUN☼: SUN☼/Diner Convocation 2017
« Reply #54 on: July 22, 2017, 07:57:58 AM »
It's NEVER about the gear. It's about getting the most out of what you have, and paying attention to light.

Yea, right.  Try doing this with your smart phone.  ::)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/jvw6A5yHK8o" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/jvw6A5yHK8o</a>

RE

Why would you compare a cell phone camera with a purpose-built specialty camera with a high speed shutter? If I didn't know better, I'd think it was the action of an out-of-place under-the-bridge troll adrift in a small town, hell-bent on arguing every single point, no matter how small, with an eye towards alienating every single person he's ever met.

You want high speed capture? Allow me to introduce you to the Phantom Flex:
https://www.wired.com/2014/07/phantom-v2511-camera/

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/mhskGnkbOD4?ecver=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/mhskGnkbOD4?ecver=1</a>
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Online Surly1

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Re: Total Eclipse of the SUN☼: SUN☼/Diner Convocation 2017
« Reply #55 on: July 22, 2017, 07:59:13 AM »

On this occasion, there just is no way you could photograph and video the TOTAL ECLIPSE OF THE SUN☼ with a phone.  It's ludicrous.  You HAVE to have the right equipment.

RE

Denying the claim not made is the first instinct of the scoundrel.

What I WROTE was that, under the right conditions, even a cell phone can make remarkable pictures. Try reading for comprehension, you insufferable troll.

As for sports photography, when I was younger I won national awards for sports photography, so gofuckyourself. By all means, lecture me about photography.

The big issue is that people often develop a Jone s for the next, the biggest, the shiniest, the newest. I know, because I'm still recovering.

Actually, it looks like the post that immediately follows didn't post. So read that first.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline RE

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Re: Total Eclipse of the SUN☼: SUN☼/Diner Convocation 2017
« Reply #56 on: July 22, 2017, 08:18:50 AM »
It's NEVER about the gear. It's about getting the most out of what you have, and paying attention to light.

Yea, right.  Try doing this with your smart phone.  ::)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/jvw6A5yHK8o" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/jvw6A5yHK8o</a>

RE

Why would you compare a cell phone camera with a purpose-built specialty camera with a high speed shutter? If I didn't know better, I'd think it was the action of an out-of-place under-the-bridge troll adrift in a small town, hell-bent on arguing every single point, no matter how small, with an eye towards alienating every single person he's ever met.

You want high speed capture? Allow me to introduce you to the Phantom Flex:
https://www.wired.com/2014/07/phantom-v2511-camera/

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/mhskGnkbOD4?ecver=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/mhskGnkbOD4?ecver=1</a>

I'd love a Phantom Flex.  The JVC was more in budget.

I am not attempting to "alienate" anyone.  I am just pointing out equipment does matter.  If it didn't, why would you be lobbying your employer to buy you a Nikon D850 when/if Nikon ever issues it out?  Why not just go do your shoots with your cell phone?  Why do the Super Pros use Hasselblads?  Why don't they just shoot with their phones?

The reason of course is you can DO a lot more with these cameras than you can with a phone.  UB made the claim that the phone was good enough to take the pics he wants, and for him it probably is.  For me, it's not.  I just couldn't do what I want it to do, no matter how great I was at setting up the lights and the shot.  I shot sports.  For sports, I needed a camera designed for sports.  The JVC fit the bill at an affordable price.

You dropped in your 2 cents that equipment NEVER matters.  Obviously equipment matters.  They wouldn't be able to sell Hasselblads for $45K if equipment didn't matter.  Everyone would just use phones.

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Offline K-Dog

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Re: Total Eclipse of the SUN☼: SUN☼/Diner Convocation 2017
« Reply #57 on: July 22, 2017, 08:21:55 AM »
People like you keep people like me from spending anything on cameras. As long as you need all the latest and greatest, last years model gets given away again and again. We bought only 1 new camera, a Yashica, 400$ back when u put in rolls of film. Peaches wanted to be sure she could zoom in on Jasmine singing in front of the school from her seat. Of course she then went right up front creating a nuisance and distraction, so the old kodak or a disposable would have done just fine. Shortly after that, my dad turned up with a little digital for stills and a digital camcorder that were just a little old,  so left with us again. He's been experiencing precious moments through one eye and a camera lens since Super 8 reel to reel. My grandfather, rest his soul, loved photography and did the darkroom for Island Studios, a family business when there was only black and white . As for me, a mobile phone cam now captures or records everything i want.

Mobile phones take dogshit pictures.

RE

I was going to stay out of this but I am FORCED to get involved for obvious reasons.  I bought a digital camera because of focusing optics last year. I also have a family cell phone and an I-phone with my job.  I-phone camera is good but all of a sudden that phone got totally anal about security and I can't send pictures from it like I could when I first got it.  The straight up camera does not do as well as the Samsung family phone.  Pixel-wise or focus, it does better.  Don't ask me how, it just does.

In photographing an eclipse optics would focus at infinity.  A fixed lens set to focus at infinity would be best for an amateur because they could not be out of focus.  If a cell phone does well at infinity my Samsung might be the one to use.

FORCED I was.  Kicking and screaming I was FORCED to add my two cents.


« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 08:26:36 AM by K-Dog »
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Offline RE

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Re: Total Eclipse of the SUN☼: SUN☼/Diner Convocation 2017
« Reply #58 on: July 22, 2017, 08:41:16 AM »
People like you keep people like me from spending anything on cameras. As long as you need all the latest and greatest, last years model gets given away again and again. We bought only 1 new camera, a Yashica, 400$ back when u put in rolls of film. Peaches wanted to be sure she could zoom in on Jasmine singing in front of the school from her seat. Of course she then went right up front creating a nuisance and distraction, so the old kodak or a disposable would have done just fine. Shortly after that, my dad turned up with a little digital for stills and a digital camcorder that were just a little old,  so left with us again. He's been experiencing precious moments through one eye and a camera lens since Super 8 reel to reel. My grandfather, rest his soul, loved photography and did the darkroom for Island Studios, a family business when there was only black and white . As for me, a mobile phone cam now captures or records everything i want.

Mobile phones take dogshit pictures.

RE

I was going to stay out of this but I am FORCED to get involved for obvious reasons.  I bought a digital camera because of focusing optics last year. I also have a family cell phone and an I-phone with my job.  I-phone camera is good but all of a sudden that phone got totally anal about security and I can't send pictures from it like I could when I first got it.  The straight up camera does not do as well as the Samsung family phone.  Pixel-wise or focus, it does better.  Don't ask me how, it just does.

In photographing an eclipse optics would focus at infinity.  A fixed lens set to focus at infinity would be best for an amateur because they could not be out of focus.  If a cell phone does well at infinity my Samsung might be the one to use.

FORCED I was.  Kicking and screaming I was FORCED to add my two cents.



What camera did you buy?

Far as shooting the eclipse with your phone, if you join me there you can go ahead and do that.  I'll provide you with a filter for it.  Good luck pointing it at the Sun and holding it steady and keeping the sun centered in the frame, forget the focus issues.  You won't be able to see the screen wearing your filter glasses.

We can compare our photos and videos after the eclipse is over.

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Final Countdown to the TOTAL ECLIPSE OF THE SUN☼
« Reply #59 on: July 22, 2017, 09:18:38 AM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/9jK-NcRmVcw" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/9jK-NcRmVcw</a>

RE

https://www.space.com/37583-counting-down-solar-eclipse-new-moon.html

Final New Moon Sunday Starts the Countdown to the Great American Eclipse
By Joe Rao, Space.com Skywatching Columnist | July 22, 2017 07:23am ET


A sketch by Spanish astronomer José Joaquin de Ferrer shows the sun's corona extending outward during a total solar eclipse June 16, 1806.
Credit: José Joaquin de Ferrer

It seems that everyone is eagerly awaiting the shady drama that will be enacted in the skies over North America on Aug. 21. It is a play whose script was written eons ago: On that third Monday in August, the celestial wanderings of the sun, Earth and moon will cause our natural satellite to pass directly in front of the sun, resulting in a total eclipse on Aug. 21.

The narrow band of totality, averaging some 70 miles (113 kilometers) wide and stretching about 2,500 miles (4,023 km) from the Pacific coast of Oregon to the Atlantic coast of South Carolina, will provide a spectacle that has not been seen from any part of the contiguous United States in nearly 40 years.

To say that this has been an eagerly awaited astronomical event is an understatement. [The Best ISO-Certified Gear to See the 2017 Solar Eclipse]
Decades of anticipation

On Aug. 31, 1932, the New York Times ran a headline stating that a total solar eclipse that was to sweep across New England that day would be the last "really good" eclipse for the United States (from a logistical standpoint) until 2017.

Samuel Alfred Mitchell, professor of astronomy at the University of Virginia, was quoted as saying:

"It thus appears that after our eclipse of 1932 has passed into memory there will not be an opportunity to view a total eclipse of the sun from the continent of the United States, under conditions that are really favorable and promise scientific success until August 21, 2017; 85 years hence."

On March 7, 1970, during a telecast of a solar eclipse from Valdosta, Georgia, over the CBS Television Network, the late Charles Kuralt asked Kenneth Franklin of New York's Hayden Planetarium about the next total eclipse that would be accessible to folks "down South." Franklin then mentioned an eclipse that was still far in future: "The next eclipse that will pass across this nation and go out along the Carolinas will be in the year 2017." Noted Kuralt: "That's a pretty long time (47 years) to wait."

"Well," countered Franklin, "unfortunately, that's the way of the world."
Final countdown

It's difficult to say exactly when most people started counting down to this upcoming eclipse, but you might say that we could start an "official" or "final" countdown this weekend — on Sunday (July 23) at 5:46 a.m. EDT. That will be the moment of the new moon, and it will also be the last new moon before next month's solar eclipse.

On Sunday morning, the moon will pass in close proximity to the sun but will go completely unseen. At its closest, it will be situated 2.8-degrees south of the sun, or about 5.5 moon widths below the solar disk; a complete miss, so no eclipse of the sun at least for this month. Like a celestial clock, the moon will continue to move in its orbit around the Earth, on its way to keeping its long-awaited rendezvous with the sun in late August. [Total Solar Eclipse 2017: When, Where and How to See It (Safely)]

When the moon and sun cross paths

The interval from one new moon to the next is referred to as a "synodic" month, derived from the Late Latin word synodus, which means "meeting."

For indeed, at new moon, the moon "meets" the sun.

Next month, when the moon comes around to the sun's position once again, it will be near a point in space (called a "node"), where the moon can cross paths with the sun as seen from our earthly perspective, producing an eclipse of the sun.

Or as astronomer Leslie Peltier noted in his popular autobiography, "Starlight Nights" (Harper & Row, 1965): "Only during an eclipse of the sun can we note the instant when the old moon, moving eastward, crosses the median line of the sun and becomes a fresh new moon just starting out on another monthly lifetime."

Discrepancy in timing?

But wait a minute. That next new moon will come on Aug. 21 at 2:30 p.m. EDT. That's almost 29.5 days after this Sunday's new moon. But it takes only 27.3 days for the moon to make one revolution around the Earth.

So where did the extra 2.2 days come from?

It may surprise you that there is more than one type of lunar months. In addition to the synodic month, there is also the sidereal month. If we were to align the position of the moon with a particular fixed star in the sky, it would take the moon about 27.3 days to return to a position where the moon is once again aligned with that star. And the moon will have also made one complete circuit in its orbit around the Earth in that same interval.

But if we note when the moon is most closely aligned with the sun, and then follow the moon for 27.3 days until it reaches that exact point in the sky again, the sun would no longer be there.

In fact, the sun's position would have shifted approximately 30 degrees farther to the east compared with the moon's position. So, in order to catch up with the sun in our sky, the moon will have to travel another two days to reach it. [Here Is NASA's Advice for Watching the 2017 Solar Eclipse]

The reason that the sun's position shifts to the east is due to Earth revolving around the sun. As a result, the sun's position in the sky is not fixed like the stars, but changes; it appears from our earthly vantage point to move eastward against the background stars by about 30 degrees each month. Think of a circle of 360 degrees and then divide that 360 by 12 (the number of months). We would get 30. (Of course, Earth's orbit is not a perfect circle and we take about 365.2422 days to go around the sun, compared to 360, but you get the general idea.)

And that's why even though it takes the moon just over 27 days to circle our Earth, it takes just over two additional days to go from one new moon to the next.

Meanwhile, remember the day this weekend (Sunday) and the time (5:46 a.m. EDT) marking the moment of the July new moon. When the moon cycles around the sky and turns new again one synodic month from now, on Aug. 21, the long-awaited "Great American Eclipse" will finally take place.

Editor's note: Space.com has teamed up with Simulation Curriculum to offer this awesome Eclipse Safari app to help you enjoy your eclipse experience. The free app is available for Apple and Android, and you can view it on the web.

Joe Rao serves as an instructor and guest lecturer at New York's Hayden Planetarium. He writes about astronomy for Natural History magazine, the Farmers' Almanac and other publications, and he is also an on-camera meteorologist for Fios1 News in Rye Brook, New York. Follow us @Spacedotcom, Facebook and Google . Original article on Space.com.
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