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Online Eddie

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Re: Doomstead Diner Daily
« Reply #375 on: May 25, 2018, 04:31:08 PM »
Interesting but has no relevance to me, my views, or most of the people known by be who are anti-abortion.

Yeah, you have a really, really narrow focus. I get that.

For your information, Planned Parenthood probably did more to prevent abortions than all the holier-than-thou legislators in the whole country put together, because they provided birth control at low or no cost to young women.

By taking a stand against birth control, it makes it MORE likely for some unfortunate women to need to kill her own baby, since it leaves her with the option of doing that or carrying an unwanted baby to full term and then sacrificing her own young life to raise the child, or alternately, abruptly severing the relationship with the child she just carried for 40 weeks, a part of her own body, and giving it up for adoption.

I don't believe I ever met anyone who really likes the idea of abortion as a form of birth control. It's an ugly event. Yes, a viable human embryo is killed. I find that repugnant, personally. I wouldn't try to sugar-coat it. It sucks. In my view it leaves the woman with permanent emotional scars that never quite heal. Always and forever. And maybe the young man involved too, if he has a heart.

But there is substantial evidence that unwanted babies born to unmarried poor women in our ghettos in this country grow up to be violent criminals. By doing what we are doing now to reverse what was done legally, we are guaranteeing a return to high levels of violent crime within a couple of decades. That matters too.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 04:44:12 PM by Eddie »
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Offline Golden Oxen

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Re: Doomstead Diner Daily
« Reply #376 on: May 25, 2018, 05:09:01 PM »
Quote
Yeah, you have a really, really narrow focus. I get that.

Now Now Edward. You can't expect everyone to have your smarts.

Be kind to those who don't have your exceptional insights and depth of understanding.

Will reexamine your thoughts on how killing millions of babies is really a wonderful helpful practice when one, with smarts like yours of course, takes the time to study the hard data.

Thanks for the sadness and empathy you feel for all involved as well, your tearing up over it reveals a truly kind and loving soul.  :emthup: :emthup:



Offline Surly1

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Re: Doomstead Diner Daily
« Reply #377 on: May 26, 2018, 05:55:04 AM »
Quote
Yeah, you have a really, really narrow focus. I get that.

Now Now Edward. You can't expect everyone to have your smarts.

Be kind to those who don't have your exceptional insights and depth of understanding.

Will reexamine your thoughts on how killing millions of babies is really a wonderful helpful practice when one, with smarts like yours of course, takes the time to study the hard data.

Thanks for the sadness and empathy you feel for all involved as well, your tearing up over it reveals a truly kind and loving soul.  :emthup: :emthup:

GO, you expressed a different POV, deposited it, and then announced you were quitting the thread lest I start posting pictures of women slaughter by back-alley abortionists. I know how those inflame your delicate sensibilities. Because they inflame my own.

Eddie as offered an opposing but thoughtful view. I would ask that you respect that, and reply in kind, rather than with sarcasm and ad hom, as in your final statement above. It is unseemly, and you can do better.

Abortion is one of those issues where people on both sides dehumanize their opponents, the better to slaughter them without scruple or consequence. If conservatives took more concern for the child that results from a pregnancy and for the mother that bore it, as opposed to scrupulously focusing on the fetus, they would make a better argument.

The end-game issue is control of women's bodies, specifically as in who controls them, and the step-by-step rechattelization of women.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline Surly1

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Doomstead Diner Daily 5/26
« Reply #378 on: May 26, 2018, 06:32:19 AM »



Doomstead Diner Daily 5/26

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Editor's note

The Doomstead Diner is a hub for discussion and information pertaining to the ongoing Economic Collapse of the Industrial Economy. The Diner is the result of many years of discussion and debate on many other forums. At Doomstead Diner, our goal is to collate much of the information we can to assist in planning for the world to come.<
[/quote]
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline Karpatok

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Re: Doomstead Diner Daily
« Reply #379 on: May 26, 2018, 06:35:41 AM »
"The end game issue is control of women's bodies, specifically as in who controls them, and the step by step rechattelization of women."  Really? Are you saying that there was no free will or personal responsibility involved on the part of women who become pregnant?  Are you saying that in most all cases of pregnancy there was involuntary rape or physical cohersion  even on the part of middle and upper middle class women who find child bearing which they abhor so inconvenient to their clawing their way toward that glass ceiling, on the opposite side of which is the post modern decadent and poisoned fake and disappointing paradise of in reality further subservience of an even greater evil kind? 

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Re: Doomstead Diner Daily
« Reply #380 on: May 26, 2018, 07:43:20 AM »
"The end game issue is control of women's bodies, specifically as in who controls them, and the step by step rechattelization of women."  Really? Are you saying that there was no free will or personal responsibility involved on the part of women who become pregnant?  Are you saying that in most all cases of pregnancy there was involuntary rape or physical cohersion  even on the part of middle and upper middle class women who find child bearing which they abhor so inconvenient to their clawing their way toward that glass ceiling, on the opposite side of which is the post modern decadent and poisoned fake and disappointing paradise of in reality further subservience of an even greater evil kind?
Indeed, what a debased view of women the totalitarian nanny state entails, and of human beings in general, that they are incapable of fully being human, responsible for their own choices, but instead they are a floundering mass of flesh like so many brainless worms writhing at the disposal of an all knowing what's good for everybody tyranny shorn of any true understanding and respect for the intelligence of free individuals learning from the consequences of their actions and descerning a better future path. A view entailing only the most materialistic manipulation of people as pawns of survival of the fittest thinking elite, who outwardly propagandize in the name of the holiest of holies substitute for the spirit, "Democracy."

Offline Surly1

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Re: Doomstead Diner Daily
« Reply #381 on: May 26, 2018, 11:26:06 AM »
"The end game issue is control of women's bodies, specifically as in who controls them, and the step by step rechattelization of women."  Really? Are you saying that there was no free will or personal responsibility involved on the part of women who become pregnant? 

Of course not. Facts on the ground are that in red, fetus-worshipping states the ability to exercise free will for women ENDS at pregnancy, at which time the state in its majesty takes a prevailing interest in protecting the fetus until it passes the birth canal. At which time it can be labelled a moocher, a freeloader, a parasite.

Eddie already framed up the experience of abortion for people who choose it, and it is always fraught. Opponents always like to categorize  abortion as post-fling birth control, with the same aplomb they describe a barely differentiated mass of cells a "baby." It is a painful and complicated decision for all involved, and to describe it as you have is ludicrous, and that was before you went down the "pawns of survival of the fittest thinking elite" rabbit hole...

Save your spittle.

"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline Karpatok

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Re: Doomstead Diner Daily
« Reply #382 on: May 26, 2018, 11:52:49 AM »
"The end game issue is control of women's bodies, specifically as in who controls them, and the step by step rechattelization of women."  Really? Are you saying that there was no free will or personal responsibility involved on the part of women who become pregnant? 

Of course not. Facts on the ground are that in red, fetus-worshipping states the ability to exercise free will for women ENDS at pregnancy, at which time the state in its majesty takes a prevailing interest in protecting the fetus until it passes the birth canal. At which time it can be labelled a moocher, a freeloader, a parasite.

Eddie already framed up the experience of abortion for people who choose it, and it is always fraught. Opponents always like to categorize  abortion as post-fling birth control, with the same aplomb they describe a barely differentiated mass of cells a "baby." It is a painful and complicated decision for all involved, and to describe it as you have is ludicrous, and that was before you went down the "pawns of survival of the fittest thinking elite" rabbit hole...

Save your spittle.
Save  your own immoral unthought out PC drool. I was addressing Yure post, not Eddies. FYI I really don't give a rats ass what Eddie thinks. Sometimes I agree, sometimes not. You are the only really literate well read thinker here. Pity you are yourself motivated to napalm against your better nature.. What "states" do is not the issue. The issue is what is moral and ethical. Unfettered irresponsible sexuality and murder and the denial of human potential is the propaganda of the dystopian Satanic state. Is that what you willingly teach and propagate. How pitiful!

Offline Agent Graves

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Re: Doomstead Diner Daily
« Reply #383 on: May 26, 2018, 06:33:29 PM »
Undifferentiated stem cells that are uniquely able to give life when harvested. But we are calling for abortion at 9 months now anyway.
Junior  Operative, FBI Counter-Doomsdaycult Taskforce

Offline Agent Graves

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Re: Doomstead Diner Daily
« Reply #384 on: May 26, 2018, 06:48:53 PM »
Interesting but has no relevance to me, my views, or most of the people known by be who are anti-abortion.

Yeah, you have a really, really narrow focus. I get that.

For your information, Planned Parenthood probably did more to prevent abortions than all the holier-than-thou legislators in the whole country put together, because they provided birth control at low or no cost to young women.

By taking a stand against birth control, it makes it MORE likely for some unfortunate women to need to kill her own baby, since it leaves her with the option of doing that or carrying an unwanted baby to full term and then sacrificing her own young life to raise the child, or alternately, abruptly severing the relationship with the child she just carried for 40 weeks, a part of her own body, and giving it up for adoption.

I don't believe I ever met anyone who really likes the idea of abortion as a form of birth control. It's an ugly event. Yes, a viable human embryo is killed. I find that repugnant, personally. I wouldn't try to sugar-coat it. It sucks. In my view it leaves the woman with permanent emotional scars that never quite heal. Always and forever. And maybe the young man involved too, if he has a heart.

But there is substantial evidence that unwanted babies born to unmarried poor women in our ghettos in this country grow up to be violent criminals. By doing what we are doing now to reverse what was done legally, we are guaranteeing a return to high levels of violent crime within a couple of decades. That matters too.

I think it would not necc lead to all violent criminals being born, but children with 2 parents being born. Women would have to be more careful. They could not gamble on trapping a great genetic sperm donor,  when tons of other women also think hes a great genetic specimen and so he is really unlikely to settle down with her. It would lead to more women not gambling on being uncertain the father will stick around. That is for those who think that is even necessary or desirable. Denying women agency and excusing them from responsibility also involves a societal 'aaaaawwww single mother' after all. It could lead to more women not taking his heat of the moment word for it from a guy she hardly knows and waiting for a wedding ring. Stable, dependable, nondescript, plain and boring guys who get no return swipes on tinder and sometimes go mass shooting.
Junior  Operative, FBI Counter-Doomsdaycult Taskforce

Offline Golden Oxen

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Re: Doomstead Diner Daily
« Reply #385 on: May 27, 2018, 04:15:11 AM »
Quote
Yeah, you have a really, really narrow focus. I get that.

Now Now Edward. You can't expect everyone to have your smarts.

Be kind to those who don't have your exceptional insights and depth of understanding.

Will reexamine your thoughts on how killing millions of babies is really a wonderful helpful practice when one, with smarts like yours of course, takes the time to study the hard data.

Thanks for the sadness and empathy you feel for all involved as well, your tearing up over it reveals a truly kind and loving soul.  :emthup: :emthup:

GO, you expressed a different POV, deposited it, and then announced you were quitting the thread lest I start posting pictures of women slaughter by back-alley abortionists. I know how those inflame your delicate sensibilities. Because they inflame my own.

Eddie as offered an opposing but thoughtful view. I would ask that you respect that, and reply in kind, rather than with sarcasm and ad hom, as in your final statement above. It is unseemly, and you can do better.

Abortion is one of those issues where people on both sides dehumanize their opponents, the better to slaughter them without scruple or consequence. If conservatives took more concern for the child that results from a pregnancy and for the mother that bore it, as opposed to scrupulously focusing on the fetus, they would make a better argument.

The end-game issue is control of women's bodies, specifically as in who controls them, and the step-by-step rechattelization of women.

Thanks Surly, but please read the entire thread for comprehension and try your best to be fair and objective even though Eddie and you are part of the same fraternity.

Eddie, out of nowhere, made a very vocal and vociferous rant about the Topic and went into a rage of how he would like to go full out Palloy against these horrible stupid advocates of the topic.

Me, nothing less and nothing more, merely stated that they were only folks with a different religious belief than him, and that his vent and anger would be better directed at truly evil folks that meant us harm, rather than folk, who, for the most part were only trying to save an unborn infant's life. Further explaining that, while sympathizing with the point of view of the anti abortion group, I understood his argument and suggested it was a very emotional and complex topic.

He of course, wrongly assuming I was dissing his views on abortion, after purposefully stating that it was not his view I was "Dissing" but his apparent extreme hatred of those with my view, and that a bit of tolerance and understanding might be in order.

He then responded with the same ol same ol litany of pro abortion rhetoric that we all have listened to all our lives. I then retorted that those views were of no interest to me, and that a war would break out if we continued down that path since Abortion was not the topic or intent of my posting, it was in fact only his emotional vile attack against those who had merely a different view of the matter.

While upon re reading the reference to you with the coat hanger, let me assure you it was meant as a joke, not in any way meant to be offensive, as a way to prove out my point of a war developing if the avenue that was taken continued. I was trying to be friendly, jocular, it certainly wasn't hidden from you, and thought it was a opportune way to leave the thread and move on. I apologize for not being more specific, and fully understand you taking the comment in a different manner.

Then of course the demeaning reply to me and my mind, which changed the topic anew to my perspective and depth compared to his. No need to voice my opinion on that matter.

I do not wish to argue abortion. I had no intention of slighting you, again it was not my intent. Eddie has an intense dislike for folks that have a different view on the matter than him, like myself, and it is not warranted. Saving his hatred for folks that wish us harm would be a better target and my reason for the original reply.                                                                   

« Last Edit: May 27, 2018, 06:04:48 AM by Golden Oxen »

Offline Surly1

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Doomstead Diner Daily 5/27
« Reply #386 on: May 27, 2018, 06:23:52 AM »



Doomstead Diner Daily 5/27

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Editor's note

The Doomstead Diner is a hub for discussion and information pertaining to the ongoing Economic Collapse of the Industrial Economy. The Diner is the result of many years of discussion and debate on many other forums. At Doomstead Diner, our goal is to collate much of the information we can to assist in planning for the world to come.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline Golden Oxen

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touregypt.net
Ptolemy IV Philopator, The Fourth King of Egypt's Greek Period
11-14 minutes
by Jimmy Dunn

The Egyptian Cartouches of Ptolemy IV Philopator

Under the Ptolemies, there was no real national foundation established for their rule in Egypt as the successor and son of Ptolemy III Euergetes, Ptolemy IV Philopator took the throne. These kings had been viewed by the local Egyptians with nothing more positive than resentful acquiescence. Basically, the Ptolemies had run Egypt as a private estate for their own benefit and gratification, even though we can say that they produced some amazing results, at least in Alexandria. Thus, the Egyptians needed only a weakening of control at the top to produce a whole string of violent insurrections, intended to reestablish the old pharaonic tradition and shift the cultural center of gravity back to Memphis.

From the time of Ptolemy IV onward, the dynasty's declining prestige abroad was matched by faltering administration at home, though it is hard to decide whether constant dynastic intrigues, minority regencies, military reversals and economic crises were primarily responsible for the breakdown of the system, or whether simmering anarchy and anti-governmental feelings contributed more. At any rate, the royal revenues began to decline as did the Ptolemy's fortunes in general.

An ancient Coin depicting Ptolemy IV Philopator

Ptolemy IV took the throne in about 222 BC, using the Egyptian name Iwaennetjerwy-menkhwy Setepptah Userkare Sekhemankhamun, a name that means "Heir of the [two] Beneficent Gods, Chosen of Ptah, Powerful is the Soul of Re, Living Image of Amun".

Unlike his predecessors, this Ptolemy led a dissolute life, aided and abetted by Sosibius, an Alexandrian Greek who had ingratiated himself into high office and made sure that he was indispensable to the king. Though some recent attempts have been made to credit Ptolemy IV with an active foreign policy, history mostly regards him as one dominated to a great extent by his advisers and women. In fact, probably acting on wild rumors that Sosibius may very well have started, Ptolemy agreed to have his mother, the famous Beerenie II, and his brother Magus respectively poisoned and scalded to death within a year of his accession.

Then trouble seems to have begun when Antiochus III of Syria, no doubt having heard through his intelligence sources of Egypt's weaknesses under the dissolute king, began to move through Phoenicia taking Egyptian vassal cities during the fourth Syrian War. He captured the port of Seleucia-in-Pieria which had been taken by Ptolemy IV's father, and then Tyre and Ptolemais-Ake surrendered to him, thus leaving the road through Palestine to Egypt open to him. Had Antiochus III been a better military man, he would have probably marched on against the Egyptian fortress of Pelusium, which could not have withstood him. However, Potlemy IV's diplomats stalled him with peace talks producing a four month truce which Ptolemy IV, with Sosibius' aid, used to recruit foreign mercenaries as well as raise and train an Egyptian army of some thirty thousand men.

A statue thought to represent either Ptolemy IV Philopator or his son Ptolemy V

In the summer of 217 BC, at the head of a fifty-five thousand man army and accompanied by his young sister, Arsinoe, Ptolemy IV took the field in person to face Antiochus III's army of sixty-eight thousand at Raphia in Palestine, just beyond the Egyptian frontier. Here, Ptolemy IV defeated Antiochus III, and relieved Egypt of the threat of invasion. Interestingly, Ptolemy employed forest elephants, a small variety from Somalia against Antiochus III's larger African bush (some say Indian) elephants. Those of Ptolemy were scared off by the larger elephants, and at first the battle went against the Egyptians, but Antiochus III overextended himself, leaving himself open for the defeat in a pitched battle considered one of the largest of this period. However, this victory bought little gain to Egypt, and in the end, would prove troublesome because of the now well trained Egyptian troops.

Ptolemy IV spent another thee months settling affairs in the Egyptian controlled region before heading home. This was really a short period of time, and better men might have stayed to take advantage of the situation, but some believe the king was apparently eager to return to the luxuries of Alexandria. For example, he left the important port of Seleucia-in-Pieria, which his father had taken in the first place, in the hands of Antiochus III. However, his reluctance to purse these military matters may have been somewhat more complex. A fall in population and a shrinkage of overseas trade had brought about an acute shortage of silver in Egypt and only seven years after Raphia, silver seems to have been abandoned altogether as Ptolemaic Egypt's standard currency. It might have been understandable that Ptolemy IV balked at hiring the extra mercenaries needed to pursue an aggressive foreign policy, and the financial considerations may have even dictated his later disastrous enrollment of Egyptian troops.

A coin depicting the wife of Ptolemy IV Philopator, Arsinoe III

After returning to Egypt, he married his sister in October of 217 BC and the two received a cult as the "Father-Loving Gods" (Theoi Philpatores). She provided an heir seven years later, but afterwards, Ptolemy IV tuned his affections to another woman named Agathoclea, who he took as a mistress. With her brother Agathocles, they encouraged his excesses. Now, though the true deterioration only may have set in about the time of Ptolemy IV's death in about 204 BC, or shortly before, events in Egypt took on a vicious cycle.

The Egyptian troops trained under the king stimulated a strong nationalist movement which resulted, at first, in a long and successful guerilla campaign against the Alexandria court. Indeed, by the end of his reign, they were able to achieve total independence in the south, which for a time was ruled once more by native pharaohs. During the period of rebel insurrection, an increased army of mercenaries was needed to fend off their constant marauding, further draining capital and resulting in a cutback in overseas trade, which in turn made the economic situation even worse.

Nevertheless, scholarship in Alexandria went on unabated. Ptolemy IV himself was a dabbler in the arts and in this regard a free thinker who wrote a tragedy entitled Adonis, and presumably played the lead. He actually founded a Homereion, a shrine honoring Homer, with inside it a statue of the poet surrounded by personified figures of the cities that claimed to be his birthplace. At the same time, one must wonder about the works that were composed during this period. One story tells of a poetry competition during his reign. In it, all of the judges ranked the poetry according to the amount of applause it received, with the exception of Aristophanes of Byzantium. He chose the one who received the least applause. When asked for an explanation, he retreated to the great Library, retrieving texts that showed his candidate was the only original poet. All the others had simply been plagiarizing their predecessors.

One of Ptolemy IV's other accomplishments, more of a tidbit of trivia than anything else, was the building a a huge, though apparently non-functioning and immovable ship measuring some 420 feet in length with a capacity to hold some 2,850 marines. He also did some work at the Temple of Isis at Philae, at Tanis, at the Temple of Montu at Medamud, at the Ptolemaic Temple of Hathor on the West Bank at Thebes (modern Luxor), at the Khonsu Temple at Karnak, and probably at the Temple of Horus at Edfu.

After Ptolemy IV's death in the summer of 204, he was doubtless buried in Alexandria, but more intrigue was to follow. Arsinoe III had, in fact, remained his wife, at least in name, and her son Ptolemy V was still a child. She was eager to rule through her son, but so to was Sosibius and Agathocles, who had also become a powerful minister. They had Arsinoe III murdered, and while we do not know of Sosibius' fate, Agathocles briefly became regent using a forged will of Ptolemy IV. However, this did not set well with the Alexandrians and he was soon lynched by the Alexandrian mob, which was now emerging as an active, if not organized political force. They then went after his relatives and associates, and Polybius tells us that:

"All of them were then handed over together to the mod, and some began to bite them, others to stab them, others to gouge out their eyes. As soon as any of them fell, the body was torn limb from limb until they had mutilated them all"     :o

Resources:


Title
   

Author
   

Date
   

Publisher
   

Reference Number

Alexandria, City of the Western Mind
   

Vrettos, Theodore
   

2001
   

Free Press, The
   

ISBN 0-7432-0569-3

Chronicle of the Pharaohs (The Reign-By-Reign Record of the Rulers and Dynasties of Ancient Egypt)
   

Clayton, Peter A.
   

1994
   

Thames and Hudson Ltd
   

ISBN 0-500-05074-0

Dictionary of Ancient Egypt, The
   

Shaw, Ian; Nicholson, Paul
   

1995
   

Harry N. Abrams, Inc., Publishers
   

ISBN 0-8109-3225-3

Dictionary of World History
   

Lenman, Bruce P.
   

1993
   

Chambers Harrap Pubishers
   

ISBN 0-7523-5008-0

Egypt after the Pharaohs (332BC-AD642)
   

Bowman, Alan K.
   

1989
   

California University Press
   

ISBN 0-520-06665-0

Egypt, Greece and Rome (Civilizations of the Ancient Mediterranean)
   

Freeman, Charles
   

1996
   

Oxford University Press
   
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/ptolemy4.htm    :icon_study:

« Last Edit: May 27, 2018, 08:02:11 AM by Surly1 »

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Doomstead Diner Daily 5/28 Memorial Day Edition
« Reply #388 on: May 28, 2018, 05:41:32 AM »



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« Reply #389 on: May 29, 2018, 02:57:10 AM »



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