Doomstead Diner Menu => Geopolitics => Topic started by: Palloy2 on March 06, 2018, 12:24:25 AM

Title: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on March 06, 2018, 12:24:25 AM
https://www.rt.com/news/420558-satisfactory-agreement-kim-korea-talks/ (https://www.rt.com/news/420558-satisfactory-agreement-kim-korea-talks/)
Kim Jong-un reaches ‘satisfactory agreement’ with South Korean delegation
6 Mar, 2018

(https://cdni.rt.com/files/2018.03/article/5a9e0a9cdda4c8d9048b45bb.jpg)
North Korean leader Kim Jong Un greets Chung Eui-yong, head of the presidential National Security Office, in Pyongyang, North Korea, March 6, 2018. © The Presidential Blue House/Yonhap via / Reuters

The leader of North Korea hosted a dinner with the delegation from Seoul which, according to state media, proceeded in a “compatriotic and sincere atmosphere” and laid the ground for versatile dialogue and cooperation.

“Hearing the intention of President Moon Jae In for a summit from the special envoy of the south side, [Kim Jong-un] exchanged views and made a satisfactory agreement,” North Korea’s official KCNA news agency reported on Tuesday. However, no further details of the “agreement” were provided.

Kim Jong-un also reportedly reaffirmed his “firm will to vigorously advance the north-south relations and write a new history of national reunification,” and instructed relevant authorities to “rapidly take practical steps” to accelerate the talks.

The sides also emphasized the importance of the new momentum in national reconciliation that was achieved during the PyeongChang 2018 Olympic Winter Games.

“The Winter Olympics served as a very important occasion in demonstrating the stamina and prestige of our nation at home and abroad and providing a good atmosphere of reconciliation, unity and dialogue between the north and the south,” Kim Jong-un said, according to the KCNA. However, the KCNA report failed to mention possible deliberations on denuclearization of the Korean peninsula or potential direct US-North Korean dialogue on the issue.

A South Korean 10-member delegation, led by National Security Council chief Chung Eui-yong and Vice Unification Minister Kim Sang-gyun, arrived for a two-day visit to Pyongyang on Monday. The delegation was personally invited by the North Korean leader, who has signaled his willingness to improve inter-Korean relations. After Chung delivered Moon’s letter to Kim at 6:00 pm, the South Korean delegation began discussing the pressing issues with Kim Jong-un over a dinner meeting that lasted longer than four hours.

Besides the North Korean leader’s younger sister, Yo-jong, who traveled south last month to deliver her brother’s message for President Moon Jae-in, the dinner was also attended by Kim’s wife, Ri Sol-ju, Yonhap reported. Kim Yong-chol, a vice chairman of the Central Committee of the Workers’ Party, was also present at the meeting.
A dinner is prepared for members of the special delegation of South Korea's President in this photo released by North Korea's Korean Central News Agency (KCNA) on March 6, 2018. © KCNA/via / Reuters

The South Korean team is scheduled to have further talks with North Koreans on Tuesday, before heading home to Seoul. After Seoul, the South Korean delegation will visit the United States to brief US officials on the outcomes of their trip to North Korea.

“There were outcomes,” a senior South Korean presidential official said. “The outcomes are not disappointing. We believe the details will be announced after the envoys return to the South.”

The intra-Korean dialogue is taking shape amid an ongoing spat between Washington and Pyongyang. Despite the thaw in North-South relations, on February 23 the US announced that it was imposing its largest package of sanctions in an effort to pressure North Korea to give up its nuclear and ballistic missile programs. US President Donald Trump recently warned of a possible “phase two” if sanctions imposed on North Korea do not have the desired effects.
Title: Re: Korea
Post by: Eddie on March 06, 2018, 05:30:04 AM
I expect the South Koreans to take a pacifist approach here. I applaud their efforts to solve the problem, but they're kinda stuck between the empire, on which their booming economy depends, and NK, whose intentions are (or should be) fairly suspect. I doubt Kim Young Fatty's ideas of unification are much like what Moon thinks.
Title: Re: Korea
Post by: Palloy2 on March 06, 2018, 07:33:52 PM
We can't have all this progress towards Korean reunification, can we?  We want denuclearisation, but even if NK agrees to that, we won't believe them.

https://www.rt.com/usa/420662-sanctions-pyongyang-chemical-agent/ (https://www.rt.com/usa/420662-sanctions-pyongyang-chemical-agent/)
US sanctions North Korea over assassination of Kim Jong-nam with VX nerve agent
7 Mar, 2018

Washington has imposed additional sanctions against Pyongyang, formally accusing it of involvement in the assassination of the half-brother of North Korean leader Kim Jong Un in Malaysia in 2017 using a chemical warfare agent.

“The United States determined under the Chemical and Biological Weapons Control and Warfare Elimination Act of 1991 (CBW Act) that the Government of North Korea used the chemical warfare agent VX to assassinate Kim Jong Nam, in the Kuala Lumpur airport,” State Department spokeswoman Heather Nauert said in a statement.

The additional sanctions against Pyongyang came into effect on Monday, after the US “officially” determined that the Pyongyang government was involved in Kim’s half-brother’s assassination, according to Nauert. Kim Jong-nam was killed with the banned chemical weapons agent VX on 13 February, 2017, when two women smeared his face with the substance at Kuala Lumpur International Airport in Malaysia.

The State Department’s notice, published in the Federal Register, accused the North Korean leadership of using “chemical weapons in violation of international law or lethal chemical weapons against its own nationals.”

The notice, however, failed to elaborate on specifics. The broad list of sanctions envisaged by the law includes various measures, ranging from cutting arms sales and export of sensitive technologies to halting financial assistance and bank loans, none of which seem to be relevant in the case of North Korea, already suffering from multiple rounds of Washington’s sanctions. The new, rather symbolic measures, however, will be in place for at least one year or until further notice.

The new punitive measures also come at a time when North and South are witnessing an unprecedented level of rapprochement in their relations. This fresh US jab against N. Korea, however, seems to be a drop in the bucket after, on February 23, Washington announced its largest package of sanctions against Pyongyang to date, in an effort to pressure it to give up its nuclear and ballistic missile programs.

On Tuesday, US President Donald Trump once again praised his administration’s tough stance for recent diplomatic concessions made by Pyongyang and Seoul. “I think that they [North Koreans] are sincere [with negotiations],” Trump said at a news conference after meeting with Prime Minister Stefan Lofven of Sweden, which represents American interests in North Korea. “And I think they’re sincere also because of the sanctions and what we’re doing with respect to North Korea.”

Earlier in the day, Trump told reporters that the US had “come a long way, at least rhetorically” with North Korea and “statements coming out of South Korea and North Korea have been very positive.”

While Trump expressed readiness to “go hard in either direction,” either politically or militarily, his deputy Mike Pence stressed that all options are on the table as long as Pyongyang continues with its nuclear ambitions.

“Whichever direction talks with North Korea go, we will be firm in our resolve,” Pence said Tuesday. “The United States and our allies remain committed to applying maximum pressure on the Kim regime to end their nuclear program. All options are on the table and our posture toward the regime will not change until we see credible, verifiable, and concrete steps toward denuclearization.”
Title: Re: Korea
Post by: Eddie on March 07, 2018, 06:32:31 AM
As bad as I hate to say, it, I think what is driving this sudden rapprochement is that Kim Jong Fatty is afraid that Trump is crazy enough to do more than bullshit and try to put on sanctions with no teeth, which is our traditional approach to negotiations.

I'd love for the Koreans to actually work their shit out with each other without our interference, but (1) we aren't about to really allow that and (2) I think the South will be negotiating from a weak position...and (3) I don't think Kim Jong Un is the least bit sane.
Title: Re: Korea
Post by: Surly1 on March 07, 2018, 07:21:22 AM
As bad as I hate to say, it, I think what is driving this sudden rapprochement is that Kim Jong Fatty is afraid that Trump is crazy enough to do more than bullshit and try to put on sanctions with no teeth, which is our traditional approach to negotiations.

I'd love for the Koreans to actually work their shit out with each other without our interference, but (1) we aren't about to really allow that and (2) I think the South will be negotiating from a weak position...and (3) I don't think Kim Jong Un is the least bit sane.

The success of Nixon's "madman theory."

In a sanity test, my money is on the fat kid-- not fat Nixon.
Title: Re: Korea
Post by: Palloy2 on March 08, 2018, 07:13:35 PM
Trump agrees to meet Kim but says ‘sanctions will remain’ until denuclearization deal is reached
9 Mar, 2018

US President Donald Trump has been invited and agreed to meet in person with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un, a senior South Korean official has announced after a meeting at the White House.

Kim said he is committed to denuclearization and said North Korea will refrain from any further nuclear or missile tests, South Korean national security adviser Chung Eui-yong announced on Thursday evening at the White House.

Trump responded that he will “meet Kim by May,” Chung added.

Chung made the surprise announcement after meeting with Trump and the US national security adviser H.R. McMaster on Thursday. He credited Trump’s leadership and the US policy of “maximum pressure” for bringing North Korea to the table.

The Republic of Korea and its allies “stand united in insisting we do not repeat mistakes of the past,” Chung said, declining to take questions from the press.

South Korean President Moon Jae-in is scheduled to meet with Kim at the end of April in the demilitarized zone (DMZ). “Many critical moments are ahead,” Moon said Thursday.
Read more
US President Donald Trump responds to a question about North Korea before holding a meeting with Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Lofven in the Oval Office at the White House in Washington, US © Leah Millis ‘Future of US-N. Korea relations hinges on Washington’s attitude’

The Korean peninsula has been divided since 1953, after an uneasy armistice suspended the bloody three-year conflict between the Communist North and the US-allied South that at one point involved both US and Chinese militaries. Last month, North and South Korean athletes competed together at the Winter Olympics in PyeongChang.

Despite the unprecedented level of negotiations between the two Koreas, which began with Kim’s New Year address seeking better ties with Seoul, Trump’s administration has put massive military and economic pressure on Pyongyang in recent months. On February 23, the US introduced a new package of sanctions on North Korea. Trump also repeatedly warned that, if sanctions do not work, the US will look at a “phase two” of action against Pyongyang.

On Tuesday, Trump once again praised his administration’s tough stance for recent diplomatic concessions made by Pyongyang and Seoul, noting that Pyongyang’s intentions for reconciliation seem “sincere” – but only because of the economic pressure. At the same time, the White House made clear that “maximum pressure” will be exerted on North Korea until concrete steps are taken towards “credible and verifiable” denuclearization.
Title: Re: Korea
Post by: RE on March 08, 2018, 07:27:19 PM
Trump agrees to meet Kim but says ‘sanctions will remain’ until denuclearization deal is reached
9 Mar, 2018

I'm sure that meeting will go well.  ::)  Sure would like to be a Fly on the Wall for it.

RE
Title: Re: Korea
Post by: Palloy2 on March 21, 2018, 12:47:34 AM
"Our combined exercises are defense-oriented and there is no reason for North Korea to view them as a provocation".
If they think that will persuade them, US foreign policy analysis has fallen apart.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-20/us-and-south-korea-will-resume-joint-military-drills-april (https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-20/us-and-south-korea-will-resume-joint-military-drills-april)
US And South Korea Will Resume Joint Military Drills In April
Tyler Durden
03/21/2018

Barely a month after Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said he "couldn't rule out" US forces physically boarding ships caught violating US sanctions against North Korea, RT  is reporting that, despite the recent thaw in relations between the US, South Korea and North Korea, the annual "Foal Eagle" and "Key Resolve" joint military exercises involving US and South Korea forces will begin April 1.

Signs of a breakthrough in North-South relations ahead of last month's Winter Olympics prompted the US to postpone the drills, which typically elicit a vehement condemnation from the North, as well as threats of retaliation.

But now that the Games are over, the Pentagon said the planned drills will resume as scheduled - despite North Korea's offer to freeze its missile and nuclear tests ahead of a meeting between Kim Jong Un and President Donald Trump, which Trump hastily agreed to earlier this month.

South Korea's Ministry of National Defense confirmed as much to Yonhap.

    "The practice is slated to begin April 1, and it will be conducted on a similar size in previous years," the Ministry of National Defense said, according to Yonhap.

The exercises are expected to conclude toward the end of May, the Pentagon said.

    "Secretary of Defense James Mattis and the Republic of Korea Minister of National Defense Song Young-moo have agreed to resume the annual combined exercises including Foal Eagle and Key Resolve which were de-conflicted with the schedule of the Olympic Games. The exercises are expected to resume April 1, 2018, at a scale similar to that of the previous years," Pentagon spokesman Colonel Rob Manning said in a statement.

The North Koreans have been notified about the drills by the United Nations Command. The Pentagon emphasized that the drills are not a response to a specific North Korean action.

    "Our combined exercises are defense-oriented and there is no reason for North Korea to view them as a provocation," Lieutenant Colonel Christopher Logan, a Pentagon spokesman, said in a statement.

Lieutenant Colonel Christopher Logan, a Pentagon spokesman, confirmed that the drills would involve about 23,000 troops and 300,000 members of the South Korean military.

After a round of successful negotiations with South Korea, Kim sent a letter that was hand-delivered to Trump by a South Korean delegation inviting him to engage in direct talks.

Korea

Trump agreed to meet with Kim "sometime in May", ignoring pleas from diplomats and Pentagon officials that honoring the request would "legitimize" North Korea in the eyes of the world.

South Korea has assured the US that the North is "committed to denuclearization" of the Korean peninsula. Until this latest salvo, the North had insisted that it would never give up its nukes under any circumstances, while the US insisted that denuclearization would be a precondition for any lifting of sanctions.

Surprisingly, the North Korean leader suggested he'd be willing to countenance the latest round of military drills, even as the US offered no concessions in return.

* * *

A North Korea expert at the University of Chicago warned Tuesday that the US shouldn't believe the North when it says it would consider giving up its nukes, according to Yonhap.

    "North Korea is not going to give up its nuclear weapons and China will not push North Koreans to do so. The reason is that in international politics, you could never trust anybody because you cannot be certain of what their intentions are," said  John Mearsheimer, a professor at the University of Chicago, during a lecture in Seoul.

So, what do you think? Is North Korea trying to lure Trump into a diplomatic trap with the ultimate aim of embarrassing the US? Or have the many rounds of economic sanctions imposed against the regime finally started to work?
Title: Re: Korea
Post by: Palloy2 on March 26, 2018, 06:10:31 PM
You would expect there to be serious China-NK talks ahead of the US-NK talks in May.  This appears to be them.

https://www.rt.com/news/422403-kim-china-visit-trump/ (https://www.rt.com/news/422403-kim-china-visit-trump/)
Kim Jong-un makes surprise visit to China ahead of planned Trump talks – reports
26 Mar, 2018


North Korean leader Kim Jong-un has made a surprise visit to China, according to reports, which described a special North Korean-style green train arriving in Beijing amid heavy security.

Japanese media described the train as green with yellow horizontal lines and 21 carriages – similar in style to the train that carried Kim’s late father, Kim Jong-il, when he visited China in 2011. Train delays of up to two hours were reported by the Beijing railway bureau.

The visit to China would be Kim’s first known trip overseas since he took power in 2011 and comes ahead of the much-hyped talks with US President Donald Trump.

Details of Kim’s trip, including how long he will stay and who he plans to meet, were not immediately available, according to three sources who spoke to Bloomberg News.

Responding to questions about the visit, China’s foreign ministry said it was “not aware of the situation”. It was also unclear whether the US had advance knowledge of the trip.

Reports of a long motorcade with a police escort making its way down Beijing’s Changan Avenue, in the direction of the Diaoyutai State Guest House, have added to speculation that North Korea’s leader was in the city.

Kim previously agreed to meet South Korean president Moon Jae-in in April, following diplomatic talks in February.

Relations between Beijing and Pyongyang have been strained, as China has backed UN sanctions on North Korea as Kim pursues his nuclear weapons program. China opposes Pyongyang’s nuclear ambitions but is also wary of any instability that would result in the region if Kim’s regime collapsed or if a war broke out on the Korean Peninsula.

Earlier this month, Trump agreed to a meeting with Kim if the North Korean leader makes certain commitments regarding its nuclear program before any meeting takes place.
Title: Re: Korea
Post by: Eddie on March 26, 2018, 06:56:25 PM
Summoned, I would expect. He rules at their whim.
Title: Re: Korea
Post by: Palloy2 on April 29, 2018, 06:49:52 PM
And now for the Russian view.

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/425400-korea-north-peace-us/ (https://www.rt.com/op-ed/425400-korea-north-peace-us/)
Peace on the horizon for Korean peninsula, but maybe not if the US has its way
Darius Shahtahmasebi
28 Apr, 2018

This week, the North and South Korean leadership held an historic meeting, eroding decades-long hostility between the two countries but does this signal the end of the “North Korean crisis,” or is it too soon to celebrate?

The United States is a country that, at any given time, is bombing at least seven (or eight) different countries, all the while threatening to bomb at least two or three more. Despite these unprecedented acts of aggression, North Korea – currently bombing no one – is inexplicably and without fail, the country that is universally branded as an uncontrollable threat to global security.

“It’s time to bomb North Korea,” wrote former government advisor Edward Luttwak in an opinion piece for Foreign Policy in January this year.

No, it isn’t. In fact, if I recall correctly, the US already bombed North Korea at least once before, committing an endless supply of potential war crimes in the process.

In the early 1950s, the US bombed North Korea so relentlessly that, according to DPRK, it destroyed over 8,700 factories, 5,000 schools, 1,000 hospitals, 600,000 homes, and eventually killed off perhaps 20 percent of the country’s population. As noted by the Asia Pacific Journal, the US dropped so many bombs that they ran out of targets to hit, so they began punishing the local population by decimating the North’s irrigation systems instead:

“By the fall of 1952, there were no effective targets left for US planes to hit. Every significant town, city and industrial area in North Korea had already been bombed. In the spring of 1953, the Air Force targeted irrigation dams on the Yalu River, both to destroy the North Korean rice crop and to pressure the Chinese, who would have to supply more food aid to the North. Five reservoirs were hit, flooding thousands of acres of farmland, inundating whole towns and laying waste to the essential food source for millions of North Koreans.”

No one considers this historical incident worth mentioning when discussing the so-called “threat” of North Korea. And this is only going to get worse. Not too long ago, Donald Trump’s now national security advisor, John Bolton, wrote an op-ed article published by the Wall Street Journal (WSJ) entitled “The Legal Case for Striking North Korea First.” This is an idea so catastrophic that about a week later, the WSJ had no choice but to publish the counter viewpoint entitled “Striking North Korea First Is a Bad Proposal.”

Bolton replaced former National Security Advisor General H.R. McMaster, a man who was also reportedly one of the main architects of a secret plan to hit the North Korean leadership with a “bloody nose strike.” It speaks volumes that this man was apparently not even hawkish enough for Trump that he needed to be replaced by someone as bloodthirsty as Bolton.

How recent developments may influence North Korea’s talks with the US later this year

After this week’s historic meeting between North Korea’s Kim Jong-un and South Korean President Moon Jae-in, the two countries formalized their new relationship through a statement which “confirmed” their stated “common goal of realizing, through complete denuclearization, a nuclear-free Korean Peninsula.” As you will be aware, this too is the apparent goal of Washington – to completely denuclearize the region.

However, this proposal comes with a catch: For North Korea, full denuclearization entails the complete withdrawal of all nuclear-capable US weapons within reach of the peninsula, as well as the withdrawal of its 28,500 troops from South Korea.This is a deal-breaker for Washington and may prove to be a sticking point, especially given that the US military still refuses to leave Japan, despite improved diplomatic relations in the decades following the end of World War Two and in addition to recent protests, some of which have last for over 5,000 consecutive days.

It is also the same reason that the US still has bases in Germany and troops in the Philippines where it is expected to increase its military footprint, even though it was formally kicked out of the country in 1991. Let’s face it, the US hardly ever leaves a country once its military has established a presence. Consider that in Syria, the US controls almost one third of the country, including Syria’s most oil-rich region, without any discernable legal basis to be there in the first place.

In other words, the US may pursue an inevitable, collapsible deal similar to the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) reached with Iran in 2015, but ultimately it will never give North Korea the security that it seeks. Putting aside one’s own thoughts of the North Korean leadership, it was the US who destroyed North Korean livelihood to the point of no return in the early 1950s. Remember that Americans still struggle to reconcile with a lone attack on its sovereignty that took place seventeen years ago; surely in that context one can try to understand the plight of the North Korean people.

The real “threat” that North Korea poses

North Korea is not a threat because of its alleged nuclear weapons program. The US has over 1,000 military bases worldwide, has a military budget of $700 billion and a nuclear weapons stockpile so sophisticated that it could make entire continents uninhabitable. A war with North Korea would be no major challenge to the US.

No, North Korea is a threat for the same reason that Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Syria and Iran are a threat: natural resources and the ability to tie the development of those resources to a currency that will challenge the status of the US dollar.

You see, North Korea sits on reserves of more than 200 minerals, including rare earth minerals, which are believed to be worth up to 10 trillion USD. North Korea’s main ally, China, is currently in the process of realizing a monumental project known as the One Belt One Road initiative, which will connect China to the Middle East, Europe, Africa, and even the Pacific to the complete detriment of the US.

China has openly said that any nation can contribute to this proposed initiative and, unfortunately for the US, they were being one hundred percent sincere. In May last year, China invited North Korea to its Belt and Road Forum for International Cooperation. In other words, China might actually be years away from creating a “Silk Road” which takes advantage of these vast resources, while leaving the US out.

As of right now, China has already begun inking deals with other nations which involve the Chinese yuan, not the US dollar. It already launched its oil crude futures exchange earlier this year which opens the door for the yuan to be used to buy and sell oil on the global financial markets, further threatening the hegemony of the US dollar.

One can only imagine the effect that China’s proposal will have on the status of the dollar if this proposal comes to fruition and involves known US adversaries like North Korea.

Quote
https://t.co/I0RU9xtxxBpic.twitter.com/3kcA9cTC8m (https://t.co/I0RU9xtxxBpic.twitter.com/3kcA9cTC8m)
    Two Koreas agree:
    - to completely denuclearize Korean peninsula
    - to hold multi-party talks, involving US and China
    - to have high-level military talks in May
    - to establish 'firm peace regime'
    - Kim said he hopes two Koreas will reunite

The harsh reality of the matter is that Pyongyang knows what happened to Iraq and Libya will ultimately happen to North Korea (for the second time) should they be willing to sit down with the US for peace talks without receiving the quid pro quo they have been searching for.

This is not conjecture. “The Libyan crisis is teaching the international community a grave lesson,” that the country’s decision to abandon its weapons programs in 2003 was undoubtedly “an invasion tactic to disarm the country” – according to North Korea’s Foreign Ministry. North Korea has been bombed by the US before, and they have no intention of letting that happen again. That is why, over and over again, the North Korean leadership has made it abundantly clear it will only give up its nuclear weapons program if the US meets them halfway:

“[T]he DPRK would neither put its nukes and ballistic rockets on the table of negotiations in any case nor flinch even an inch from the road of bolstering the nuclear force chosen by itself unless the U.S. hostile policy and nuclear threat to the DPRK are definitely terminated,” reads a statement from July 4, 2017.

Of course, North and South Korea are always free to pursue their own foreign policy agenda without the interference of the US. The decision to formally bring about the end of the Korean War is almost certainly progress, though one would be hard-pressed to realistically give credit for this positive development to the Trump administration, which has openly called for war in the Korean peninsula for over a year.

The presence of John Bolton in Trump’s already hawkish administration cannot be a coincidence, however, and it would appear that if the US gets its way, there will be no removal of the American military presence on North Korea’s border. Without this guarantee, North Korea will be unlikely to give up its weapons, as it has watched the US simulate an invasion of its territory every year without fail.

The current conundrum can best be described as a “hope for the best, but prepare for the worst” type scenario, in which there are too many known people behind the scenes who have ulterior motives far beyond that of the fruition of a peaceful relationship between North and South Korea – at least not until there is a government in Pyongyang that is more representative of Washington’s economic interests.
Title: 🌏 KOREAN PEOPLE WANT PEACE AND REUNIFICATION. UNCLE SAM DOES NOT
Post by: RE on April 30, 2018, 03:37:50 AM
https://www.greanvillepost.com/2018/04/29/korean-people-want-peace-and-reunification-uncle-sam-does-not-china-rising-radio-sinoland/ (https://www.greanvillepost.com/2018/04/29/korean-people-want-peace-and-reunification-uncle-sam-does-not-china-rising-radio-sinoland/)

KOREAN PEOPLE WANT PEACE AND REUNIFICATION. UNCLE SAM DOES NOT. CHINA RISING RADIO SINOLAND
April 29, 2018 Posted by Addison dePitt

 If you find China Rising Radio Sinoland’s work useful and appreciate its quality, please consider making a donation. Money is spent to pay for Internet costs, maintenance, the upgrade of our computer network, and development of the site. 

(https://www.greanvillepost.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/kim-moon-after-signing-peace.jpg)

 
KOREAN PEOPLE WANT PEACE AND REUNIFICATION. UNCLE SAM DOES NOT. CHINA RISING RADIO SINOLAND 180428
Kim Jong Un, North Korea’s leader, left, and Moon Jae-in, South Korea’s president, shake hands and embrace after signing a deal to end a seven-decade war during the inter-Korean summit at the Peace House in the village of Panmunjom in the Demilitarized Zone (DMZ) in Paju, South Korea, on Friday, April 27, 2018. Kim and Moon agreed Friday to finally end a seven-decade war this year, and pursue the “complete denuclearization” of the Korean Peninsula. Source: Inter-Korean Summit Press Corps/Pool via Bloomberg

Downloadable SoundCloud podcast (also at the bottom of this page), as well as being syndicated on iTunes and Stitcher Radio (links below),

Picture above: DPRK Chairman Kim Jong-un (left) and ROK President Moon Jae-in (right), holding hands in symbolic reunification, while stepping back and forth over the USA’s artificially enforced border along the 38th parallel. The world will be changed forever if the Peninsula reunifies.
It is no understatement to say that Korea’s détente this week is the greatest chance for peace, so far, in the 21stcentury. After living with a US contrived ceasefire for 65 years, the two halves of the artificially divided Korean people are finally promising to sign a full peace treaty by the end of this year and create steps towards reunification (https://www.nknews.org/2018/04/two-koreas-agree-to-end-armistice-agreement-sign-peace-treaty/ (https://www.nknews.org/2018/04/two-koreas-agree-to-end-armistice-agreement-sign-peace-treaty/)).

This would never have happened if any Clinton, Bush or Obama were in the White House. You can bitch all you want about US President Donald Trump’s unorthodox, chaotic foreign policy, or lack thereof, but his rapprochement with Kim Jong-un, the DPRK’s (North Korea) Chairman was key. South Korean (ROK) President Moon Jae-in also deserves credit, for his willingness to work with DPRK and Kim, remembering that there are citizens rotting in ROK prisons for publicly saying something good about the North, a crime in the South’s repressive, Western-style fascist society.

But the real kudos go to DPRK’s leader, Kim Jong-un. He held all the cards. He was in control of the situation the whole time. He had the world holding its breath about the North’s nuclear arsenal and could have kept up the suspense and the heat on the US and Japan for as long as he wanted (http://chinarising.puntopress.com/2017/08/28/why-dprk-will-n-e-v-e-r-stop-its-nuclear-arms-program-china-rising-radio-sinoland-170828/ (http://chinarising.puntopress.com/2017/08/28/why-dprk-will-n-e-v-e-r-stop-its-nuclear-arms-program-china-rising-radio-sinoland-170828/)). But, he didn’t. He masterfully played the peace card and might now win the Nobel Prize for his vision (https://anti-imperialism.org/2018/04/27/kim-jong-un-initiates-historic-summit-with-south-korean-counterparts/ (https://anti-imperialism.org/2018/04/27/kim-jong-un-initiates-historic-summit-with-south-korean-counterparts/)). I am convinced that China has been and will continue to  play a huge, behind the scenes role (http://chinarising.puntopress.com/2018/03/26/breaking-news-dprk-leader-kim-jong-un-is-in-beijing-china-rising-radio-sinoland-180327/ (http://chinarising.puntopress.com/2018/03/26/breaking-news-dprk-leader-kim-jong-un-is-in-beijing-china-rising-radio-sinoland-180327/) and http://chinarising.puntopress.com/2018/03/28/breaking-news-xi-kim-photos-you-wont-see-much-behind-the-great-western-firewall-china-rising-radio-sinoland-180328/ (http://chinarising.puntopress.com/2018/03/28/breaking-news-xi-kim-photos-you-wont-see-much-behind-the-great-western-firewall-china-rising-radio-sinoland-180328/)). In fact, per the ceasefire, five parties should have to sign any peace treaty: the two Koreas, China, the United States and the United Nations (http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2018/04/731_248070.html (http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2018/04/731_248070.html)).

The Western media were trying to downplay the summit, hopefully predicting that not much would transpire. They were thankfully wrong (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/27/world/asia/north-korea-south-border.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/27/world/asia/north-korea-south-border.html)). The final communiqué is bold, daring and visionary (http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2018/04/731_248077.html (http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2018/04/731_248077.html)). If allowed to come to fruition, it will change the world forever.

I say allowed, because there are many dark forces that are going to try to destroy Korea’s reunification in its womb (http://chinarising.puntopress.com/2018/02/13/us-sending-1000s-of-marines-to-asia-to-stop-chinas-belt-and-road-system-china-rising-radio-sinoland-180213/ (http://chinarising.puntopress.com/2018/02/13/us-sending-1000s-of-marines-to-asia-to-stop-chinas-belt-and-road-system-china-rising-radio-sinoland-180213/)). For the last 65 years, the USA has been working tirelessly to keep the Peninsula on a war footing. It’s not about Korea, it’s all about threatening and encircling communist-socialist China, the former USSR and now anti-imperial Russia (http://chinarising.puntopress.com/2017/04/18/do-trump-co-know-china-and-north-korea-have-a-mutual-defense-treaty-china-rising-radio-sinoland-140418/ (http://chinarising.puntopress.com/2017/04/18/do-trump-co-know-china-and-north-korea-have-a-mutual-defense-treaty-china-rising-radio-sinoland-140418/)). Both countries have common borders with DPRK and both were instrumental in soundly defeating Uncle Sam’s “United Nations” forces in the Korean War, 1950-1953. The USA even blatantly used illegal germ warfare and carpet bombed three million North Koreans to their early graves, and still resoundingly lost to the communist DPRK-China-USSR alliance (http://chinarising.puntopress.com/2018/03/12/noose-of-truth-is-tightening-around-milton-leitenberg-co-s-collective-neck-china-rising-radio-sinoland-180310/ (http://chinarising.puntopress.com/2018/03/12/noose-of-truth-is-tightening-around-milton-leitenberg-co-s-collective-neck-china-rising-radio-sinoland-180310/))

I fear a Western false flag will be pulled off to scuttle the whole thing. ROK President Moon had better have a loyal security team, watch his back and triple check every mode of transport he uses. They can’t get to Kim, so the West will kill Moon in a heartbeat if they can get to him, then blame it on Kim and DPRK. See, we told you so, it was all just a sick commie ruse to fool the world. Back to the big business of war.

Korea represents many billions of dollars in military sales and contracts for Wall Street. As well, there are many fascists embedded in ROK’s military and government, as well as in Japan’s. These two countries’ militaries also reap billions of dollars in weapons and service contracts from a divided and occupied peninsula and an occupied Japan. Don’t forget that ROK’s military authority is run by the US’s generals, not Koreans. One of the biggest justifications for keeping 90,000 US troops in Japan is the “menace” of North Korea. Reunify the Peninsula and keeping Japan militarily occupied becomes more tenuous, even when we know it’s all about China and Russia.

Thousands of careers at the Pentagon, Department of State, NATO, in Brussels, London, Paris, Frankfurt, Tokyo, in Cold War-anti-communist think tanks and university professorships are all legitimized by a demonized Kim and DPRK. Capitalism’s biggest enemy is peace, thus armies of bureaucratic and business warmongers in the West and Asia will now go into overdrive to destroy the Korean people’s dream of reunification. We now have the West’s postwar communist domino theory updated to the 21st century’s anti-imperial peace domino theory. If one country says no more war, then another will do the same thing, and then another, etc.

The peace domino theory is capitalism’s worst nightmare. For now, we can exhale, smile and dream. The next year is going to be very interesting indeed.

 

Capitalism’s worst nightmare: peace breaking out all over Asia and then the rest of the world.

Come on, we have to celebrate with some music! What else, but John Lennon’s Give Peace a Chance. No wonder the CIA assassinated him (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1335479/Was-John-Lennons-murderer-Mark-Chapman-CIA-hitman-Thirty-years-theres-extraordinary-new-theory.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1335479/Was-John-Lennons-murderer-Mark-Chapman-CIA-hitman-Thirty-years-theres-extraordinary-new-theory.html))

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ABOUT JEFF BROWN

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JEFF J. BROWN, Senior Editor & China Correspondent,  Dispatch from Beijing

Jeff J. Brown is a geopolitical analyst, journalist, lecturer and the author of The China Trilogy. It consists of 44 Days Backpacking in China – The Middle Kingdom in the 21st Century, with the United States, Europe and the Fate of the World in Its Looking Glass (2013); Punto Press released China Rising – Capitalist Roads, Socialist Destinations (2016); and for Badak Merah, Jeff authored China Is Communist, Dammit! – Dawn of the Red Dynasty (2017).
Title: Re: Korea
Post by: Palloy2 on April 30, 2018, 08:11:12 AM
That doesn't do justice to the bunch of fascist thugs the US organised into power from 1948 to 1990, the military coups, protesters massacred, assassinations by KCIA.  From then on every president has been beset by financial scandals and impeachments for corruption, bribery and influence-pedaling, and suicide by falling off a cliff.  The recent impeachment of Park Geun-hye, daughter of the military coup leader and four times President Park Chung-hee, shows it is still going on.  Moon Jae-in got voted in on a platform of "No THAADs" and the very first thing he did was approve THAADs.  I think Kim is being lured into a Machiavellian trap because there is no way the US would allow Moon to declare Peace and Reunification.

The use of US aid to set up what became the Chaebols (oligarchic mega-corporations) mirrors the Yeltsin experience in post-Soviet Russia.
Title: 🌏 The Korean Promise: The Meeting in Panmunjom
Post by: RE on May 01, 2018, 04:20:23 AM
https://dissidentvoice.org/2018/04/the-korean-promise-the-meeting-in-panmunjom/ (https://dissidentvoice.org/2018/04/the-korean-promise-the-meeting-in-panmunjom/)

The Korean Promise: The Meeting in Panmunjom

by Binoy Kampmark / April 29th, 2018

(https://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/25c95df/2147483647/thumbnail/640x420/quality/85/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.beam.usnews.com%2F1c%2F1c75214aa018d7c93555d7144042fd%2Fresizes%2F1500%2Fmedia%3A0aa406dc13a24b4b88aae461bb45d431North_Korea_Koreas_Tensions_68003.jpg)

It seems, and certainly feels, like a distant number of months since a panel of experts noshed and chatted over how best to overcome the nuclear impasse that pitted North Korea against its southern neighbour and allies.  Held in Seoul last December, the project of attendees hosted by the Korean National Diplomatic Academy was ambitious and lofty: the denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula.

The US angle was one of continued military presence on the peninsula while acknowledging that Pyongyang would not relinquish their top option for empty guarantees.  Parties from Thailand and China felt that area should not become a security buffer zone favourable to the United States and its allies.  Good will entailed true neutrality.  The Russian and Chinese angle was an immediate push to calm the nerves: insist on a “freeze-for-freeze” (a halt to military drills and missile testing), a cold storage metaphor suggesting a seizing up on the road before catastrophe.

Across the parties was a general admission that nothing could be done, or advanced, without genuine measures to seek a state of affairs that would entrench peace even as measures to remove North Korea’s nuclear capability gathered pace.  A peace treaty, in other words, festooned with various security guarantees, would be indispensable.

Now, at the end of April, we have the leaders of Pyongyang and Seoul embracing and emitting tones of rosy confidence, promising steps of reconciliation that would have seemed as eye popping as any Trump tweet.  For the first time since 1953, one of the Kim dynasty found himself on the southern side of the demilitarised zone, chatting at the truce village of Panmunjom.

On Saturday, happy snaps were released of the previous day’s meeting between the DPRK’s Kim Jong Un and South Korea’s Moon Jae-in.  Such gestures were bound to tease the driest tear ducts, causing a necessary trickle.  Summaries on the summit points were cobbled together for press circulation.  The Seoul Shinmun was not holding back: “No war on Korean Peninsula, complete denuclearisation, formal end to Korean War this year.”

The agreement, known as the Panmunjom Declaration for Peace, Prosperity and Unification of the Korean Peninsula itself promises the machinery for “a permanent and solid peace regime on the Korean Peninsula.”  The “current unnatural state of armistice” was to be ended. “Blood relations” between the states would be reconnected; “practical steps towards the connection and modernisation of the railways and roads on the eastern transportation corridor” would be adopted.

The occasion conjures up, in terms of historical pressings, the initial stages of Ostpolitik, when East and West Germany began a warming process that eventually culminated in re-unification, even if the last stages were induced by the shock of the Iron Curtain’s retreat.  “We are living next door to each other,” claimed Kim, “there is no reason we should fight each other.”

It was impossible to expect certain big mouths to stay silent. “Please do not forget,” came President Donald Trump, “the great help that my good friend, President Xi of China, has given to the United States, particularly at the Border of North Korea.  Without him it would have been a much longer, tougher process!”  All charming, given the berating the man in the White House was giving Beijing’s leadership over previous mouths for not doing enough.

Such events are bound to leave certain parties unmoved.  The minstrel’s song will be falling on deaf ears, notably those hardened by decades of realpolitik cynicism.  Political boffins, notably in the West, continue to obsess with the utterance of the terms “complete denuclearisation”, and wonder whether this will, in fact, happen.

Former US national security advisor H. R. McMaster ran with the line that the DPRK was using its nuclear weapons capability “for nuclear blackmail, and then, to quote, ‘reunify’ the peninsula under the red banner.”  It never occurred to McMaster that pure survival is as good a reason as any, and nuclear weapons supply comforting insurance rather than offensive means.

The Washington Post was ready to throw some cold water on the cosy gathering, reminding readers of 1992, when Pyongyang signed a denuclearisation agreement with Seoul, then 1994, when the DPRK concluded one with the United States.  In April 2005, the gesture was repeated with North Korea’s four neighbours and Washington.  In 2012 came another agreement between Pyongyang and Washington.

Rather than considering the totality of these agreements, and the deeper reasons for their failures, the paper suggested one, inglorious culprit: “North Korea has never stuck to any of its agreements.” Conservative figures such as the Liberty Korea Party’s head, Hong Joon-pyo, find little room to trust, seeing a manipulative dictator highly skilled in stage management. “The inter-Korean summit was a show of fake peace,” he fumed on Facebook.

Still others, such as Michael E. O’Hanlon, are claiming that the recent moves have little to do with the wily Kim or accommodating Moon, but the brutal sanctions regime that brought suitable pressure to bear on the northern regime.  Kim’s moves suggested “that the world’s collective economic sanctions against his regime are starting to bite”.

Again, these old fictions circulate like counterfeit currency, suggesting that the DPRK’s nuclear regime – the supposed object of such measures – would be impaired.  As with all sanctions regimes, citizens tend to head the queue of punishment. Those in power are rarely scarred.

The Korean peninsula has rarely been entitled to prosper and develop on its own accord, ever at the mercy of ruthless powers and case jottings about security and self-interest.  An arbitrary border, drawn at the 38th parallel by two US colonels, one of them the future Secretary of State Dean Rusk, brought Washington and Moscow into potential conflict.

This random division of political mismanagement precipitated a neurosis between Pyongyang and Seoul, as much a product of inward enmity as it was an external inspiration, poked and prodded by those too afraid to let go.  Perhaps that time is now.

Binoy Kampmark was a Commonwealth Scholar at Selwyn College, Cambridge. He lectures at RMIT University, Melbourne and can be reached at: bkampmark@gmail.com. Read other articles by Binoy.

This article was posted on Sunday, April 29th, 2018 at 7:39am and is filed under Kim Jong-un, Korea, North Korea, United States.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on May 09, 2018, 01:09:16 AM
This shows that moving US troops out of South Korea is a difficult thing to do, even when the President is all for it.  Lots of talking needed.

https://www.38north.org/2018/05/cwork050818/ (https://www.38north.org/2018/05/cwork050818/)
US Troops in Korea: From History’s Vantage Point
Clint Work   
May 8, 2018

Robert Carlin recently observed that despite Pyongyang’s historical demands for the removal of US forces as a condition for peace, it might not want to see US forces rapidly depart. Consistent with this, there was no direct mention of US forces in the Panmunjom Declaration following the Inter-Korean Summit, and South Korean President Moon Jae-in has stated Kim Jong Un would not insist on their withdrawal. Pyongyang understands as well as anyone that the US presence is embedded within a larger geopolitical and strategic architecture.

Yet it is unclear whether or not US President Trump understands this. This matters because while Trump may be inclined to remove or at least draw down US troops, history demonstrates even a determined president cannot so easily disentangle American forces from the highly militarized peninsula. The most salient example is President Jimmy Carter, whose abortive troop withdrawal policy remains relevant today.

Upon entering office in January 1977, Carter quickly moved to implement his campaign promise to remove all US ground combat forces from South Korea. However, by July of 1979 his troop withdrawal policy had come to naught.[1]

Opposition from various quarters forced Carter to include a massive compensatory military aid package to Seoul as part of the plan and to structure the withdrawal into three phases, with the largest combat elements back-loaded into its final phase. As it happened, congressional obstruction, as well as controversy surrounding the so-called Koreagate influence-buying scandal, delayed passage of the military aid legislation, forcing Carter to draw-out the initial phase.[2] Then, in the winter of 1978-79, new intelligence revealed North Korea’s order of battle was larger and more heavily armored than previously thought. For opponents of Carter’s plan within his administration, the new intelligence was the evidence they needed to terminate a policy they never supported.

To the point, Morton Abramowitz, then deputy assistant secretary for international security affairs in the Department of Defense, remarked that from early on in the process: “we began a rear guard action—delay it, water it down, mitigate the decision as much as possible.”[3] Richard Holbrooke, assistant secretary of state for East Asian and Pacific Affairs, said that even if “the bean counting had gone the other way,” meaning the intelligence on North Korea had been less worrisome, “we still would have found a reason to suspend the withdrawal.”[4]

Many throughout the US foreign policy establishment, within Congress, and among regional allies felt similarly and resisted the policy. And there are direct parallels to today.

In terms of its introduction, Carter’s policy was problematic for several reasons. First, many disagreed with a pre-set timetable for withdrawal. The Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) insisted on a four-to five-year timetable, which Carter thought was too slow. Many held that conditions instead of a pre-set timeline should determine the implementation process. Of course, as things currently stand, there is no official plan for withdrawing troops, but it is not hard to imagine Trump impetuously ordering troop removals or draw downs by a certain date, expecting his advisors and allies alike to simply follow his announced (or tweeted) policy line.

Second, Carter’s policy was precipitous as Seoul still needed time to compete its defense modernization in order to competently deter and, if need be, fight North Korea without the immediate presence of US combat forces. General John Vessey Jr., then four-star commander in chief of the USFK who was deeply skeptical of the plan, remarked: “President Carter’s decision is based on a vision of the future, a Korea four or five years from now in which United States ground troops won’t be required. That’s not the situation now.”[5]

Today, Seoul’s defense and war-fighting capabilities are far more advanced than in the late 1970s. Nevertheless, Seoul remains dependent on the US nuclear umbrella as the ultimate deterrent against North Korean attack. Additionally, Seoul depends on crucial US intelligence and early warning capabilities, even for its ostensibly independent Korea Air and Missile Defense (KAMD) system. Also, over the last 20 years, the US-ROK alliance has become progressively more interoperable and combined operations more tightly bound. Upgrading such capabilities and reconfiguring combined operations will take time and extensive training.

Third, Carter did not attempt to gain any trade-off from Pyongyang or its Chinese and Soviet allies. For opponents of the plan, he was putting the cart before the horse by removing an enormous bargaining chip without leveraging it for some sort of peace settlement or non-aggression pact. Carter did push last-minute tripartite US-South Korea-North Korea talks just before his June 1979 summit with South Korean President Park Chung-hee. However, the withdrawal was effectively dead, his own advisors viewed it as a “lousy idea” and “gimmicky,” and Pyongyang itself would not meet Seoul on equal terms.

In a sense, the present situation is different in that talks are already underway. Nonetheless, Trump faces similar issues as no actual agreements have been reached beyond jointly stated goals of peace and denuclearization. Yet, according to the New York Times, Trump already appears to be asking the bureaucracy to consider reductions before meeting Kim. Earlier, Trump’s former Senior White House advisor, Steve Bannon, was also apparently open to withdrawal. This follows an NBC News report last Monday that in February, Trump yelled at Chief of Staff, John Kelley, about removing troops. Such moves betray an astonishing lack of awareness regarding the effect such precipitous signaling has on one’s negotiating position.

Fourth, ever the so-called outsider, Carter did not properly consult with interested parties before announcing the policy. In fact, within days of his inauguration, Carter instructed the bureaucracy to study how to implement the withdrawal, not whether or not it should be done. Many in the policymaking community, not to mention allies in Seoul and Tokyo, were caught completely by surprise.

Again, we do not know for sure what President Trump has instructed advisors to do. In fact, National Security Advisor, John Bolton, called the NYT report “utter nonsense.” Still, Trump is far more of an outsider and neophyte than Carter ever was, and his administration repeatedly demonstrates official statements should be taken with some skepticism. For its part, Seoul denies such plans exist and President Moon says USFK would remain even if a peace treaty were achieved. Although, President Moon’s special advisor, Moon Chung-in, has openly questioned a continued US presence, but was recently forced to walk back those comments. That said, Trump has shown outright disdain for allies, so it is hardly a stretch to imagine him not properly consulting them.

Fifth, Carter failed to provide a clear rationale for the policy. When pressed, his administration offered several reasons: the US troop presence was never meant to be permanent; withdrawal was the natural evolution of the security relationship; and Seoul’s impressive economic growth had increased its ability to defend itself.

Trump himself is on record criticizing Seoul for free riding on American protection and arguing it needs to defend itself. However, utilizing such an argument right now (which, of course, ignores the fact that Seoul covers half of US basing costs already, including 90 percent of the cost for constructing Camp Humphreys) betrays a stunning lack of awareness of how it might affect ongoing inter-Korean and US-North Korea talks.

Importantly, despite Carter’s seemingly ex-post facto rationales, opposition persisted. Indeed, many opposed the withdrawal per se, no matter how well or poorly introduced. For them, the withdrawal posed several significant risks both on the bilateral and regional level. Again, the same risks are operative today.

Bilaterally, under Carter, reducing the American presence was seen to lower deterrence and thus increase the chance of North Korean adventurism or war.[6] More importantly, the withdrawal would diminish US influence over South Korea’s defense policy, including Seoul’s pursuit of its own nuclear capability. Just before Carter, the Ford Administration had shut down Seoul’s secret nuclear program. With news of Carter’s plans, local US commanders and South Korean officials warned the ROK might again develop its own nukes.[7]

In recent years, an increasing number of voices in Seoul have called for the development of an independent nuclear deterrent. While in direct response to Pyongyang’s own program and still not a mainstream view, any perceived or real drawdown in the US commitment would surely increase the appeal. Although Trump blithely states he thinks Seoul (and Tokyo) should have its own nukes, the overwhelming majority of the US government disagrees.

Also under Carter, there was apprehension the withdrawal would lead to contradictions in the alliance command structure. In 1978, the bilateral ROK-US Combined Forces Command (CFC) was established, which, among other things, was a cooperative means for dealing with Carter’s policy. Some were concerned the new arrangement would lead Seoul to take back operational control (OPCON) of its military and result in a mismatch between a US general overseeing the armistice while commanding a much reduced US presence, which would lack any actual ground combat component. Since there was no plan to abrogate the US-ROK alliance and some US forces would remain, the US would remain treaty bound to a situation over which it maintained less command and less control.[8]

Any withdrawal or reduction under Trump would raise similar issues. Naturally, the ROK would assume greater command responsibilities, including full wartime OPCON. Seoul has pursued this for over a decade, and President Moon has publicly affirmed as much. The rub is that unless the alliance is entirely abrogated, Trump will have to accept and sell to Congress and the American people leaving US forces under South Korean OPCON. A unified, combined military command would be required to preserve basic military preparedness. How would Trump’s America first bluster jive with the optics of a US general serving as the deputy of a Korean? The short answer: it wouldn’t.

Regionally, opponents of Carter’s plan saw the local US presence as rooted within and underpinning a broader US hegemonic structure, which they were reticent to see undone. Most immediate, was the negative consequence for the security of Japan. Many felt the withdrawal would force Japan to pursue rapid militarization and thus spur a regional arms race and instability.[9]

Today, such concerns are heightened. Tokyo’s military capabilities are more advanced, and Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and his supporters have weakened aspects of Japan’s vaulted peace constitution, making further militarization easier than before. Obviously, Tokyo’s rearmament would hasten Beijing’s own well-documented military aims and spending. Again, Trump’s impetuous remarks about Japan having nuclear weapons simply add further instability to the mix.

Beyond Japan, Korea was a key node within the larger US General Military Force Structure in the Western Pacific. Added to purely military considerations, was the more intangible political and psychological value of the US presence. Removing US forces from Korea, it was believed, would undermine allies’ perception of the credibility of US commitment. In the late 1970s, at a time of increased Soviet Far Eastern deployments and as the last remaining Asian mainland deployment after the Vietnam withdrawal, both the military and psychological importance of US forces in Korea had only increased. The reaction in Tokyo and Seoul to the potential withdrawal was resounding opposition, which united otherwise intense political foes.[10]

Nowadays, the US presence within South Korea, including the largest overseas American military base in the world, US Army Garrison Humphreys, is considered the linchpin of the Trump Administration’s so-called “free and open Indo-Pacific strategy,” with the proverbial rising China in sight. At a time of growing Chinese strength and assertiveness in the region, alongside Trump’s willingness to pull out of TPP while simultaneously badger allies on trade issues, murmurs of troop removals has already unnerved Seoul and Tokyo. It is telling that Pyongyang appears more aware of the interconnectedness of the local US presence with wider considerations than Trump is.

While Trump is unaware of this, others are not. Consequently, he will face roadblocks similar to those Carter encountered in the 1970s. US combat forces have been stationed on South Korean sovereign territory for all but one year of its existence (the year the Korean War broke out). No matter how things proceed in the coming months, undoing such a deeply rooted presence is not easy and will have serious geopolitical and strategic consequences in the region.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on May 13, 2018, 07:08:33 PM
https://www.rt.com/usa/426606-us-gurantees-kim-stay-power/ (https://www.rt.com/usa/426606-us-gurantees-kim-stay-power/)
US will promise N. Korea's Kim Jong-un it will not seek regime change – Pompeo
14 May, 2018

The US will have to assure North Korea it won't seek to undermine its leader Kim Jong-un, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has implied. That comes after years of slamming him as a dictator and squeezing his country with sanctions.

With less than a month left before the hugely-anticipated talks between US President Donald Trump and North Korea's leader Kim Jong-un in Singapore, the US top diplomat has indicated that any deal paving the way for a nuclear-free Korean peninsula will have to include certain US safeguards allowing Kim to stay in power.

"We will have to provide security assurances to be sure. This has been the trade-off that has been pending for 25 years," Pompeo told 'Fox News Sunday.' Pompeo was speaking to Fox's Chris Wallace just a few days after he returned to the US from his second meeting with Kim, during which they were supposed to thrash out the details of the Trump-Kim summit on June, 12.

The upcoming talks are being hailed as a monumental personal success by Donald Trump, who, just months ago, berated Kim as a "mad man" and as a "rocket man on a suicide mission," threatened him with "fire and fury" and boasted about having a bigger nuclear button. Now, the Trump administration is using the negotiations as a way of saying it's better than the previous ones.

"No president has ever put America in a position where the North Korean leadership thought that this was truly possible that the Americans would actually do this, would lead to the place where America was no longer held at risk by the North Korean regime," Pompeo said.

As for Kim being a "dictator" and "oppressor" with a poor human rights record – apparently, the safety of the US eclipses that.

"Look, we'll have to see how the negotiations proceed. But make no mistake about it: America's interest here is preventing the risk that North Korea will launch a nuclear weapon into L.A. or Denver or to the very place we are sitting here this morning, Chris," Pompeo said.

If the negotiation proves to be a success, North Korea can see private American companies flooding its market, helping to develop its power grid and providing food supplies "so they [North Koreans] can eat meat and have healthy lives." However, he dismissed the possibility that the US taxpayers' money could be involved in the program.

Speaking about the impression the North Korean strongman made on him during their meetings, Pompeo described Kim as always up to date with the agenda and an apt negotiator.

"The conversations are professional. He knows -- he knows his brief, he knows what he is trying to achieve for the North Korean people," Pompeo said, noting that Kim is also keeping tabs on the Western media and "will probably watch the show at some point."

Hinting that the times when a full-blown war of words was raging between Trump and Kim are long forgotten, Pompeo said that neither he nor Kim touched on the "little rocket man" remark by Trump or any other less-than-graceful characteristics given to Kim by the US leader before.

The tone of Trump's rhetoric towards Kim has shifted dramatically over the past several months. Following the landmark summit between Kim and South Korean President Moon Jae-in in late April, Trump has heaped praise on the North Korea leader, raising some eyebrows.

During a meeting with French President Emmanuel Macron last month, Trump called Kim "very open and very honorable."

Following North Korea's pledge to dismantle its nuclear test site and allow foreign journalists, including ones from the US, to oversee the process, Trump thanked him for what he called "a very smart and gracious gesture."
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Eddie on May 14, 2018, 06:37:23 AM
During a meeting with French President Emmanuel Macron last month, Trump called Kim "very open and very honorable."

One thing that's clearly a mistake is to assume anything Trump says means anything about anything. He has no principles, no morals, no allegiance to anyone but himself.

And......no agenda beyond wanting to be perceived as a Big Kahuna, avoiding paying for his past crimes, and benefiting financially from his power. He's willing to change his tune on anything the moment it becomes expedient.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on May 15, 2018, 03:09:13 PM
Talk about crass, unprofessional diplomatic skills.  With everything going so cooperatively, they STILL expect to go ahead with the "practice invading NK and killing Kim" exercises, which of course are "only defensive".

https://www.rt.com/news/426827-north-korea-threaten-talks-trump/ (https://www.rt.com/news/426827-north-korea-threaten-talks-trump/)
North Korea cancels talks with South, threatens to call off US talks over military drills
15 May, 2018

North Korea has canceled a summit with South Korea and has threatened to call off a summit between US President Donald Trump and Kim Jong-un over American military drills with South Korea, according to South Korean media reports.

Pyongyang has canceled talks with Seoul due to ongoing Max Thunder military exercises between the South and the US, Yonhap news agency cited North Korean media. The drills have been described by the North as a rehearsal for invasion of the DPRK and a provocation amid warming inter-Korean ties.

AFP reported that North Korea has also threatened to scrap the highly-anticipated summit between US President Donald Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong-un. The meeting is scheduled for June 12 in Singapore.

The news comes as a blow after the historic talks between the leaders of two Koreas in April and the meeting between Kim and US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. Pompeo said Sunday that any deal paving the way for a nuclear-free Korean peninsula will have to include certain US safeguards, and reassurance that Kim won’t become a target of yet another regime change attempt.

Pyongyang had scheduled the dismantling of its nuclear bomb test site to take place between May 23-25, North Korean media reported on Saturday.

Reports that the talks have been suspended come just hours after Seoul and Pyongyang agreed on Tuesday to hold high-level inter-Korea talks on May 16. The leaders were planning to discuss steps needed to follow the plan of the peninsula's denuclearization.

Wednesday’s now suspended talks were to include a 29-strong delegation from North Korea led by Ri Son-gwon, chairman of the 'Committee for the Peaceful Reunification of the country' along with a five-member South Korean delegation, led by Unification Minister Cho Myoung-gyon.

The Max Thunder 18 drills are one of a number of joint military drills carried out by South Korea and the US in the Korean peninsula. North Korea has long viewed these drills as a show of aggression towards Pyongyang.

The two-week Max Thunder 18 air drills kicked off on Friday, with over 100 planes taking part, including F-22 fighters and B-52 bombers, Yonhap reported last week.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on May 15, 2018, 08:25:07 PM
Finally I've got hold of the Panmunjeom Declaration

Section 2 and subsection 2.(1) says:
Quote
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/04/27/national/politics-diplomacy/full-text-panmunjom-declaration
Panmunjeom Declaration for Peace, Prosperity and Unification of the Korean Peninsula

2. South and North Korea will make joint efforts to alleviate the acute military tension and practically eliminate the danger of war on the Korean Peninsula. Alleviating the military tension and eliminating the danger of war is a highly significant challenge directly linked to the fate of the Korean people and also a vital task in guaranteeing their peaceful and stable lives.

(1) South and North Korea agreed to completely cease all hostile acts against each other in every domain, including land, air and sea, that are the source of military tension and conflict. In this vein, the two sides agreed to transform the demilitarized zone into a peace zone in a genuine sense by ceasing as of May 1 this year all hostile acts and eliminating their means, including broadcasting through loudspeakers and distribution of leaflets, in the areas along the Military Demarcation Line.

So the South Koreans have definitely broken that with their SK-US military exercises.  Couldn't they at least have postponed them until after the NK-US talks have happened?

The only type of solution that would be acceptable to Kim is the Russian-Chinese one of both sides standing down, which the US has rejected out of hand.  It follows that the Russian-Chinese policy will be to defend North Korea against the US threats, as they have implied via Global Times.  This would involve shooting down US warplanes with S-500s, sinking US warships with supersonic anti-ship crusise missiles, and taking our the THAAD installations, particularly the radar components.  They would only do that so long as they were also prepared for WW3 and had their best planes and radars and missiles in the best locations for war, that is, actually in North Korea, or on the border with motors running.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: RE on May 15, 2018, 08:44:13 PM
Finally I've got hold of the Panmunjeom Declaration

Section 2 and subsection 2.(1) says:
Quote
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/04/27/national/politics-diplomacy/full-text-panmunjom-declaration
Panmunjeom Declaration for Peace, Prosperity and Unification of the Korean Peninsula

2. South and North Korea will make joint efforts to alleviate the acute military tension and practically eliminate the danger of war on the Korean Peninsula. Alleviating the military tension and eliminating the danger of war is a highly significant challenge directly linked to the fate of the Korean people and also a vital task in guaranteeing their peaceful and stable lives.

(1) South and North Korea agreed to completely cease all hostile acts against each other in every domain, including land, air and sea, that are the source of military tension and conflict. In this vein, the two sides agreed to transform the demilitarized zone into a peace zone in a genuine sense by ceasing as of May 1 this year all hostile acts and eliminating their means, including broadcasting through loudspeakers and distribution of leaflets, in the areas along the Military Demarcation Line.

So the South Koreans have definitely broken that with their SK-US military exercises.  Couldn't they at least have postponed them until after the NK-US talks have happened?

The only type of solution that would be acceptable to Kim is the Russian-Chinese one of both sides standing down, which the US has rejected out of hand.  It follows that the Russian-Chinese policy will be to defend North Korea against the US threats, as they have implied via Global Times.  This would involve shooting down US warplanes with S-500s, sinking US warships with supersonic anti-ship crusise missiles, and taking our the THAAD installations, particularly the radar components.  They would only do that so long as they were also prepared for WW3 and had their best planes and radars and missiles in the best locations for war, that is, actually in North Korea, or on the border with motors running.

So when is your latest prediction for the first Thermonucflear ICBM to be fired off?

RE
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: cernunnos5 on May 15, 2018, 09:22:19 PM
Finally I've got hold of the Panmunjeom Declaration

Section 2 and subsection 2.(1) says:
Quote
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/04/27/national/politics-diplomacy/full-text-panmunjom-declaration
Panmunjeom Declaration for Peace, Prosperity and Unification of the Korean Peninsula

2. South and North Korea will make joint efforts to alleviate the acute military tension and practically eliminate the danger of war on the Korean Peninsula. Alleviating the military tension and eliminating the danger of war is a highly significant challenge directly linked to the fate of the Korean people and also a vital task in guaranteeing their peaceful and stable lives.

(1) South and North Korea agreed to completely cease all hostile acts against each other in every domain, including land, air and sea, that are the source of military tension and conflict. In this vein, the two sides agreed to transform the demilitarized zone into a peace zone in a genuine sense by ceasing as of May 1 this year all hostile acts and eliminating their means, including broadcasting through loudspeakers and distribution of leaflets, in the areas along the Military Demarcation Line.

So the South Koreans have definitely broken that with their SK-US military exercises.  Couldn't they at least have postponed them until after the NK-US talks have happened?

The only type of solution that would be acceptable to Kim is the Russian-Chinese one of both sides standing down, which the US has rejected out of hand.  It follows that the Russian-Chinese policy will be to defend North Korea against the US threats, as they have implied via Global Times.  This would involve shooting down US warplanes with S-500s, sinking US warships with supersonic anti-ship crusise missiles, and taking our the THAAD installations, particularly the radar components.  They would only do that so long as they were also prepared for WW3 and had their best planes and radars and missiles in the best locations for war, that is, actually in North Korea, or on the border with motors running.

So when is your latest prediction for the first Thermonucflear ICBM to be fired off?

RE
I suspect Trump or Israel will do it soon. Buduptupt
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: RE on May 15, 2018, 09:25:31 PM
Finally I've got hold of the Panmunjeom Declaration

Section 2 and subsection 2.(1) says:
Quote
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/04/27/national/politics-diplomacy/full-text-panmunjom-declaration
Panmunjeom Declaration for Peace, Prosperity and Unification of the Korean Peninsula

2. South and North Korea will make joint efforts to alleviate the acute military tension and practically eliminate the danger of war on the Korean Peninsula. Alleviating the military tension and eliminating the danger of war is a highly significant challenge directly linked to the fate of the Korean people and also a vital task in guaranteeing their peaceful and stable lives.

(1) South and North Korea agreed to completely cease all hostile acts against each other in every domain, including land, air and sea, that are the source of military tension and conflict. In this vein, the two sides agreed to transform the demilitarized zone into a peace zone in a genuine sense by ceasing as of May 1 this year all hostile acts and eliminating their means, including broadcasting through loudspeakers and distribution of leaflets, in the areas along the Military Demarcation Line.

So the South Koreans have definitely broken that with their SK-US military exercises.  Couldn't they at least have postponed them until after the NK-US talks have happened?

The only type of solution that would be acceptable to Kim is the Russian-Chinese one of both sides standing down, which the US has rejected out of hand.  It follows that the Russian-Chinese policy will be to defend North Korea against the US threats, as they have implied via Global Times.  This would involve shooting down US warplanes with S-500s, sinking US warships with supersonic anti-ship crusise missiles, and taking our the THAAD installations, particularly the radar components.  They would only do that so long as they were also prepared for WW3 and had their best planes and radars and missiles in the best locations for war, that is, actually in North Korea, or on the border with motors running.

So when is your latest prediction for the first Thermonucflear ICBM to be fired off?

RE
I suspect Trump or Israel will do it soon. Buduptupt

Can you give me "soon" in terms of months, weeks or days?  I won't hold you to an hours and minutes level of prediction.

RE
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on May 15, 2018, 09:30:44 PM
Quote
RE: So when is your latest prediction for the first Thermonucflear ICBM to be fired off?

Within one month of the US-NK summit breaking down in discord.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on May 15, 2018, 09:49:05 PM
https://www.rt.com/news/426847-pyongyang-reconsider-kim-trump/ (https://www.rt.com/news/426847-pyongyang-reconsider-kim-trump/)
N. Korea may reconsider Trump-Kim summit if US seeks surrender instead of talks
16 May, 2018

Pyongyang is not interested in any negotiations that envisage only unilateral denuclearization without guarantees North Korea won’t be left totally defenseless like Libya in case of aggression, deputy foreign minister has said.

Criticizing Washington’s demands for unilateral concessions and unconditional “nuclear abandonment,” North Korea’s first vice minister of foreign affairs Kim Kye-gwan recalled the eventual fate of Libya and said such negotiations style is unacceptable for Pyongyang.

“This is not an attempt to solve the problem through dialogue but rather the manifestation ...to force the destiny of the collapsed Libya and Iraq to our dignified state,” Kim said, according to KCNA.

    Seoul ‘regrets’ its drills with US forced Pyongyang to cancel intra-Korean talks https://t.co/Pmh30boM22pic.twitter.com/LQhcSVEcDy (https://t.co/Pmh30boM22pic.twitter.com/LQhcSVEcDy)
    — RT (@RT_com) May 16, 2018

The US invaded Iraq in 2003, claiming Baghdad possessed weapons of mass destruction. No such weapons were ever found. That same year, Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi offered to shut down the country's nuclear weapons research. Libyan nuclear materials were transferred to the US. In 2011, however, the US and its NATO allies backed an armed rebellion that overthrew and killed Gaddafi and plunged Libya into chaos.

“I doubt whether the United States really wants sound dialogue and negotiation,” Kim added, again noting that “the world is so well aware that our country is not Libya or Iraq.”

Denouncing the ongoing “sanctions pressure offensive” against the North, he accused Washington of misrepresenting North Korea’s “generosity and bold measures as an expression of weakness.”

Last week, as a sign of goodwill, North Korea went on to release three Americans detainees accused of espionage – Kim Hak-song, Kim Sang-duk and Kim Dong Chul – removing one of the main obstacles ahead of the June 12 summit in Singapore. In another peaceful gesture, the North pledged to place a moratorium on nuclear and missile testing and in the spirit of transparency invited foreign journalists to watch the nuclear test site shutdown, scheduled for May 23-25.

“We will not be interested in talks anymore if (they) only try to push us unilaterally into a corner and force us to give up nukes,” he said. “It would be inevitable to reconsider whether to respond to the upcoming summit with the US.”

Deputy FM’s remarks came a day after Pyongyang’s decision to cancel negotiations triggered by Max Thunder 2018 military exercises between the South and the US, which are viewed by the North as a rehearsal for the invasion of the DPRK and a provocation amid warming inter-Korean ties.

“This training is aimed at .. and is a deliberate challenge to the Panmunjom declaration and is a deliberate military provocation,” KCNA wrote on Wednesday. “This training... reflects the unchanging attitude of the US and South Korea to continue 'maximum pressure and sanctions' against us.”

Washington however still aims to hold the Trump-Kim meeting as planned and has defended the right to conduct drills with its Asian ally.

“We have not heard anything from that government or the Government of South Korea to indicate that we would not continue conducting these exercises or that we would not continue planning for our meeting between President Trump and Kim Jong-un next month,” State Department's spokesperson Heather Nauert told reporters on Tuesday.

“I will say that Kim Jong-un had said previously that he understands the need and the utility of the United States and the Republic of Korea continuing in its joint exercises. They’re exercises that are legal; they’re planned well, well in advance,” she added.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: RE on May 15, 2018, 10:03:50 PM
Quote
RE: So when is your latest prediction for the first Thermonucflear ICBM to be fired off?

Within one month of the US-NK summit breaking down in discord.

What week do you expect the US-NK Summit to breakdown in Discord?

RE
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on May 15, 2018, 10:35:24 PM
Probably in a week, so June 19.  Does it matter?
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: RE on May 16, 2018, 02:04:19 AM
Probably in a week, so June 19.  Does it matter?

Got a reminder programmed in my smart phone, THX!!!  :icon_sunny:

Yes it matters.  If nuclear fallout is raining down on my digs on June 19th, you are elevated to the status of greatest Nostradamus of all time.

In the more likely event that your prediction fails to come true like so many before it, you lose whatever creditibility you have left, which is close to Zero already.  You have been making "Sky is Falling" predictions for at least the last year, with Armageddon Day always about a week or two away.  Somehow these days come and go, and we are all still here chewing the fat on the Doomstead Diner.  If you Cry Wolf every day but the Wolf never shows up, eventually people stop believing you.  Then when the Wolf really shows up, nobody listens to you either.  Jim Kunstler made this mistake for years, now nobody believes him when he makes a prediction.  Dr. McStinksion is also rapidly approaching JimmyK in failed predictions.  You make more of them than either of these guys, but the only people who know about it are readers of the Diner Forum, which doesn't exactly have a huge circulation, so only a few people know how magnificently you fail every month making a new Prediction of Doom.

(http://img.elephantjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/the-sky-is-falling.jpg)

RE
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on May 16, 2018, 06:57:51 AM
If the summit starts on Jun12 it may end in discord on June 19.  There is then a month for the US to get its ships into position to attack, so I am talking about July 19.  Get it right.

And if I get it wrong, you won't believe me any more - so what's new, you don't believe me now.  But if I get it right, you will be nuked out of existence, and all YOUR supposed expert knowledge of collapse events will be shown to have been crap.

The fact is, the summit is bound to fail because Trump will not back down and withdraw his troops, because he would look weak, and Kim will not denuclearise for anything less.  THEY HAVE NOWHERE ELSE TO GO EXCEPT WAR.

Quote
You have been making "Sky is Falling" predictions for at least the last year, with Armageddon Day always about a week or two away.

No I haven't.  Copy and paste them all, if you can find any, with the dates on them.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Eddie on May 16, 2018, 07:28:55 AM
Kim is posturing, enjoying his 15 minutes of fame on the world stage. He will do what China tells him to do ultimately. Without China, his nuke program is bupkus.

If he launches anything, I'd be more worried about biologicals. Or maybe a stealth EMP blast. Either would be more effective than an ICBM.

This is really a standoff between the US and China. Kim is the man in the middle. Like Quaadafi. Like Erdogan wants to be.

Xi is calling the shots here. Fortunately, he has a lot more sense than Trump or Kim, and more unilateral power to act. I expect him to exert some influence here.

Bolton is a dangerous, power-mad idiot. Trump is an idiot.  Anything could happen. It's a very dangerous world.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSg-4QKu6fzTt0VZ24Yw0fCLTP-31aYoedqRIfnRlaqzoGJCOKk)
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: RE on May 16, 2018, 09:55:10 AM
so I am talking about July 19.

I have updated my alarm setting on my smart phone to July 19th for TEOTWAWKI Day. ::)

RE
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Eddie on May 16, 2018, 10:09:20 AM
At least we get two more good holiday weekends. Carpe diem, baby!
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Surly1 on May 16, 2018, 01:07:34 PM
Kim is posturing, enjoying his 15 minutes of fame on the world stage. He will do what China tells him to do ultimately. Without China, his nuke program is bupkus.

If he launches anything, I'd be more worried about biologicals. Or maybe a stealth EMP blast. Either would be more effective than an ICBM.

This is really a standoff between the US and China. Kim is the man in the middle. Like Quaadafi. Like Erdogan wants to be.

Xi is calling the shots here. Fortunately, he has a lot more sense than Trump or Kim, and more unilateral power to act. I expect him to exert some influence here.

I generally give China credit for playing a long game, unlike us. But Xi has a good short game. He just put $500 mil in Trump's pocket, which may not be strategy but sure is good tactics.
A bribe is worth at least three good decisions.

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-zte-order-after-china-gave-millions-to-trump-organization-tied-project-2018-5 (http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-zte-order-after-china-gave-millions-to-trump-organization-tied-project-2018-5)
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on May 16, 2018, 03:02:57 PM
Quote
Xi is calling the shots here.

[Kim] will do what China tells him to do ultimately.

Nothing can be considered black and white here.  Of course Xi is going to be very influential, Putin is going to be very influential, but Kim is his own man when it comes down to button-pushing.

Quote
Kim is posturing, enjoying his 15 minutes of fame on the world stage.

No, he is complaining about the US and SK breaking section 2.1 of the agreement signed on April 27, less than 3 weeks ago, and the "experts" are all blaming NK for it, and pointing to all the other times NK broke the rules in the past (when he didn't, they did).

"denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula" means both NK's and US's nukes have to go, and it will have to be "with verification". Your opinion seems to be constructed to avoid having to confront the seriousness of the situation. 
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Eddie on May 16, 2018, 03:27:34 PM
Quote
Xi is calling the shots here.

[Kim] will do what China tells him to do ultimately.

Nothing can be considered black and white here.  Of course Xi is going to be very influential, Putin is going to be very influential, but Kim is his own man when it comes down to button-pushing.

Quote
Kim is posturing, enjoying his 15 minutes of fame on the world stage.

No, he is complaining about the US and SK breaking section 2.1 of the agreement signed on April 27, less than 3 weeks ago, and the "experts" are all blaming NK for it, and pointing to all the other times NK broke the rules in the past (when he didn't, they did).

"denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula" means both NK's and US's nukes have to go, and it will have to be "with verification". Your opinion seems to be constructed to avoid having to confront the seriousness of the situation.

I read the agreement you posted, and it does not stipulate any timeline for the completion of denuclearization by anyone, nor does it do anything else other than call for dialing down the current high level of saber rattling. Its a broad agreement written in very general terms.

Did you think South Korea was going to instantly beat their swords into plowshares as an act of good faith, and then hope Kim does the same?

It is my understanding that the US withdrew all ground based nukes from Korea in the 1990's and that those weapons have been completely decommissioned.

South Korea has the capability to make nukes of their own, but sensibly decided some time ago not to. So I'm not sure what you mean by the US and SK not "denuclearizing".

The US Navy can nuke Pyongyang from thousands of miles away anytime, and that is not going to change.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Eddie on May 16, 2018, 03:31:47 PM
And Xi is more than "influential.  Kim's regime would fail very quickly without China. China buys two thirds of NK's exports.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on May 16, 2018, 06:19:13 PM
Quote
Kim's regime would fail very quickly without China.

Yes, but China doesn't want to lose North Korea, so it HAS TO keep supporting Kim, regardless of what he does. Same with Russia.  This gives Kim some independence of action.  He's not stupid, he was chosen by Kim Jong-Il as the smartest son and trained up for the job for years.  You only see him as a puppet because you've been brainwashed to think that way by a lifetime of MSM propaganda.

Who do you think helped NK develop its nukes and ICBMs so rapidly?
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Nearingsfault on May 16, 2018, 07:02:49 PM
Quote
Kim's regime would fail very quickly without China.

Yes, but China doesn't want to lose North Korea, so it HAS TO keep supporting Kim, regardless of what he does. Same with Russia.  This gives Kim some independence of action.  He's not stupid, he was chosen by Kim Jong-Il as the smartest son and trained up for the job for years.  You only see him as a puppet because you've been brainwashed to think that way by a lifetime of MSM propaganda.

Who do you think helped NK develop its nukes and ICBMs so rapidly?
Would it not be more accurate to say China does not want a failed state on its border? I agree they have to keep him alive and he is no puppet. He is obviously canny to be alive in that powder keg.  I wonder whether China is not performing a true cost benefit analysis on NK for the first time. Its got to be really expensive to support a nuclear armed neighbour and it might not be worth it to them any more. Twenty years ago NK was a heavily armed but half starved buffer country. Now it is nuclear armed and defiant. If ever China decide screw it let south Korea clean up the mess he is done brilliant or not. Not tomorrow but soon.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on May 16, 2018, 07:44:08 PM
Quote
Would it not be more accurate to say China does not want a failed state on its border?

I think they have a lot of influence now, but what China fears is having that failed state being invaded by the US.

What they have said is:
Quote
http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1060791.shtml (http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1060791.shtml)
Reckless game over the Korean Peninsula runs risk of real war
2017/8/10

[...]

China should also make clear that if North Korea launches missiles that threaten US soil first and the US retaliates, China will stay neutral. If the US and South Korea carry out strikes and try to overthrow the North Korean regime and change the political pattern of the Korean Peninsula, China will prevent them from doing so.

This has been picked up by the Washington Post, so everyone knows.  This very threatening language has not been repeated, as is the Chinese way.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on May 17, 2018, 01:20:23 AM
South Korea's Yonhap News Agency has reported (http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/2018/05/16/0200000000AEN20180516012500315.html) "a military source" as saying that the nuclear-capable B-52s will not take part in the on-going Max Thunder exercises, although eight F-22 radar-evading fighter jets, as well as F-15Ks and F-16s would do so.  This was a climb down as a result of North Korea's objections and canceling of yesterday's SK-NK ministerial meeting and came after high level SK-US meetings.  It remains to be seen if it was enough of a climb down to satisfy Kim.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Eddie on May 17, 2018, 06:58:14 AM
Quote
Kim's regime would fail very quickly without China.

Yes, but China doesn't want to lose North Korea, so it HAS TO keep supporting Kim, regardless of what he does. Same with Russia.  This gives Kim some independence of action.  He's not stupid, he was chosen by Kim Jong-Il as the smartest son and trained up for the job for years.  You only see him as a puppet because you've been brainwashed to think that way by a lifetime of MSM propaganda.

Who do you think helped NK develop its nukes and ICBMs so rapidly?

I don't see him as a puppet. I see him as one more dangerous megalomaniac. He is, for all intents and purposes a monarch. Some communist.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on May 23, 2018, 08:15:55 PM
Looks like everything is going as I predicted.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-05-23/peace-prize-rocks-north-korea-calls-pence-political-dummy-threatens-call-summit (https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-05-23/peace-prize-rocks-north-korea-calls-pence-political-dummy-threatens-call-summit)
Peace Prize On The Rocks: North Korea Calls Pence A "Political Dummy", Threatens To Call Off Summit
Tyler Durden
05/23/2018

Trump's Nobel Peace Prize is suddenly in jeopardy.

Just a few weeks after the US president seemed on the verge of a historic diplomatic breakthrough by getting North Korea to open its borders to the world and end its nuclear program, progress appears to have taken a sharp U-turn, and after several rounds of increasingly harsher verbal outbursts, a senior North Korean official called VP Mike Pence a "political dummy", repeated a threat to call off the planned summit with President Donald Trump and in a flashback to Pongyang's ICBM launch days, warned that Pyongyang could “make the U.S. taste an appalling tragedy it has neither experienced nor even imagined."

As the WSJ reports, "in its most direct language aimed at Washington following a recent rapprochement between the two countries, Choe Son Hui, the North’s vice minister of foreign affairs, said if the June 12 talks were called off, the U.S. could instead face off with North Korea in a “nuclear-to-nuclear showdown."

In other words, the US is almost back to square one in dealing with Kim.
Choe Son Hui, North Korea’s vice minister for foreign affairs

In the past few weeks, tensions between North Korea and the United States have once again been rising after Korea refused to meet the United States’ demand of denuclearization, while the reason why Choe called Mike Pence a "political dummy" is in refernce to his Fox News interview earlier this week in which the VP reiterated the administrataion's insistence on denuclearization for North Korea.

    She also criticized the vice president for bringing up Libya in the context of denuclearization—a sensitive subject for North Korea, after Moammar Gadhafi was overthrown and killed in 2011, eight years after giving up Libya’s nuclear weapons. Mr. Pence said the Libya model would only come about if North Korea failed to denuclearize.

Choe’s statement followed "strongly worded statements" last week from other senior North Korean officials aimed at U.S. national security adviser John Bolton and at the South Korean government of Moon Jae-in, who has pushed for dialogue with Pyongyang to avoid a nuclear standoff. The latest outburst also follows yesterday's meeting at the White House between Trump and Moon, who as the WSJ puts it "have both staked their hopes—and their credibility" on a successful U.S.-North Korea summit, which has been planned for June 12 in Singapore.

However, that summit is looking increasingly precarious, especially after a series of ominously worded North Korean statements: Last week, Pyongyang warned the U.S. and South Korea against conducting joint air force drills, and called on Seoul to muzzle defectors who were questioning the North’s motives in seeking detente. The North also canceled previously scheduled talks with Seoul after the US refused to call off joint US-South Korean military drills in the region. Then last ago, a senior North Korean official said that Pyongyang wasn’t interested in a summit with the U.S. focused solely on denuclearization and accused Washington of trying to “impose on our dignified state the destiny of Libya or Iraq.”

Trump said in his meeting with Moon on Tuesday that he would call off his summit with Kim if the conditions didn’t work out, and put the odds of it continuing as planned at about 50-50.

    “I don’t want to waste a lot of time, and I’m sure he doesn’t want to waste a lot of time. So there’s a very substantial chance that it won’t work out. And that’s OK,” Mr. Trump said.

Still, Trump had expressed hope that Mr. Kim was sincere about wanting to make a big change in policy: “He has a chance to do something that maybe has never been done before,” Mr. Trump said. “If you look 25 years into the future—50 years into the future—he will be able to look back and be very proud of what he did for North Korea, and actually for the world.”

Meanwhole, Pompeo who secretly flew to Pyongyang over Easter to meet with Kim and break the ice between the two nations, remained adamant that denuclearization must be part of any deal with North Korea in some capacity despite the country's refusal to do so. The U.S. has maintained that they will keep military pressure on North Korea until denuclearization is achieved.

So far North Korea does not appear will to make any concessions.

In her Thursday statement published by KCNA, Choe took issue with Pence's Fox News interview in which he suggested that the North sought the summit meeting with Trump; she called Pence’s words “unbridled and impudent,” and said that “Pence should have seriously considered the terrible consequences of his words.”

“As a person involved in the U.S. affairs, I cannot suppress my surprise at such ignorant and stupid remarks gushing out from the mouth of the U.S. vice president,” she said and added that if the U.S. continues to offend the North’s “goodwill,” she would tell leader Kim Jong Un to reconsider the Singapore summit with the U.S.

“It is the U.S. who has asked for dialogue, but now it is misleading the public opinion as if we have invited them to sit with us,” Ms. Choe said. “We will neither beg the U.S. for dialogue nor take the trouble to persuade them if they do not want to sit together with us.”

And so, with just over three weeks left until the highly anticipated meeting between the two nations, Trump will have to decide whether it will back off its denuclearization demand or take a more aggressive approach with North Korea.  If it is the latter, the US will likely end up using the "Libya model", and instead of winning the Nobel prize, Trump will instead find himself greenlighting a decapitation strike, and potentially launching a new global conflict.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on May 24, 2018, 07:38:04 AM
The summit's off.  Apparently the war games , and Pence saying NK would be decapitated wasn't as bad as Kim calling him an idiot.  Smother the bit about US having to denuclearise the peninsula too.

https://www.rt.com/usa/427665-trump-cancels-june-meeting-kim/ (https://www.rt.com/usa/427665-trump-cancels-june-meeting-kim/)
Trump cancels June meeting with Kim - White House
24 May, 2018

President Donald Trump has cancelled a much-anticipated summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un, “based on the tremendous anger and open hostility” from Kim, who threatened the US with a “nuclear to nuclear showdown.”

“I was very much looking forward to being there with you. Sadly, based on the tremendous anger and open hostility displayed in your most recent statement, I feel it is inappropriate, at this time, to have this long-planned meeting,” read the letter, sent a few hours after North Korea blew up its nuke testing site at Punggye-ri. The demolition was witnessed by a small pool of foreign journalists, and was considered a goodwill gesture from Kim ahead of the planned summit.

    A letter from the President to Chairman Kim Jong Un: "It is inappropriate, at this time, to have this long-planned meeting." pic.twitter.com/3dDIp55xu1
    — The White House (@WhiteHouse) May 24, 2018

In his letter, Trump lamented the loss of a historic opportunity, but thanked Kim for releasing three American hostages, which he said was a “beautiful gesture.”

North Korean Vice Minister Choe Son-hui said earlier on Thursday that his country would walk away from the summit, which had been due to take place in Singapore on June 12, if Washington continued to carry out its "unlawful and outrageous acts."
Read more
US Vice President Mike Pence © Shizuo Kambayashi N. Korea calls Pence ‘political dummy,’ threatens US with ‘appalling tragedy’ & summit cancellation

"Whether the U.S. will meet us at a meeting room or encounter us at nuclear-to-nuclear showdown is entirely dependent upon the decision and behavior of the United States," Choe said.

The ‘unlawful acts’ mentioned by Choe refer to joint military exercises carried out by the US and South Korea earlier this month. The North viewed these annual drills as intentional provocation and practice for an invasion.

Choe also singled out Vice President Mike Pence, who said earlier this week that North Korea could end up like Libya if Kim didn’t make a deal. The Libya comparison had been first made by Trump’s national security adviser John Bolton, who suggested that the denuclearization of North Korea could follow “the Libya model.”

After surrendering his weapons in 2003, Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi was deposed and executed in a NATO-backed coup in 2011.

Following these statements North Korea cancelled talks with the South early in May, yet not the Singapore meeting with Trump. Since then the fate of the summit had been discussed almost daily in the media with US President being vague about its prospects.

Now Trump, who used to call Kim 'rocket man,'  and North Korea leader seem to be back to threats.

“You talk about your nuclear capabilities, but ours are so massive and powerful that I pray to God they will never have to be used,” Trump said in the letter.

Finally, Trump suggested that maybe one day, the two leaders could be friends.

“If you change your mind...please do not hesitate to call me or write,” the letter reads.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Surly1 on May 24, 2018, 07:49:34 AM
The summit's off.  Apparently the war games , and Pence saying NK would be decapitated wasn't as bad as Kim calling him an idiot.  Smother the bit about US having to denuclearise the peninsula too.

https://www.rt.com/usa/427665-trump-cancels-june-meeting-kim/ (https://www.rt.com/usa/427665-trump-cancels-june-meeting-kim/)
Trump cancels June meeting with Kim - White House


(https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/kim-jong-un-coin.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=618&h=410&crop=1)

Thousands available. Contact your local Trump Store for subscription info.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Eddie on May 24, 2018, 07:57:44 AM
No surprise. They can still give Trump the Nobel for trying SO hard to bring World Peace. What a guy.

There was never any chance here, unless South Korea took charge of their own negotiations with the North. And if that happens it won't make Bolton and Pompeo and the rest of the Pentagon war hawks happy.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Surly1 on May 24, 2018, 10:05:30 AM
No surprise. They can still give Trump the Nobel for trying SO hard to bring World Peace. What a guy.

There was never any chance here, unless South Korea took charge of their own negotiations with the North. And if that happens it won't make Bolton and Pompeo and the rest of the Pentagon war hawks happy.

I agree.

Oh, and by the way, we still have plenty of these:

(http://thehill.com/sites/default/files/styles/thumb_small_article/public/commemorativeseal_052418_getty.jpg?itok=iGMRw_Su)

And we can find some of these as well:

(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcQSys6bJgz6ObFqRTZ2HIaeL4yN1qFO1EgA9VDqdC8MCjJzwp2wnA4CM03ywk0&usqp=CAE)
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Eddie on May 24, 2018, 10:57:45 AM
There appears to be a market niche still available for some smart and nimble entrepreneur to market action figures of all Trumps ex'es.

Collect the whole set, or mix and match.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on May 24, 2018, 03:32:26 PM
Very funny.  ;D .  Is anyone bothered about what is actually going to happen now?

North Korean Vice Minister Choe Son-hui says "Whether the U.S. will meet us at a meeting room or encounter us at nuclear-to-nuclear showdown is entirely dependent upon the decision and behavior of the United States", (like the latest war games).

Trump says “You talk about your nuclear capabilities, but ours are so massive and powerful that I pray to God they will never have to be used”.

If Xi understands how the western media works and confirms what Global Times has already said (http://), "If the US and South Korea carry out strikes and try to overthrow the North Korean regime and change the political pattern of the Korean Peninsula, China will prevent them from doing so."

How can that situation work out without nukes going off?

But let's not be so serious - lets have another joke.   ;D ;D ;D :icon_sunny:

Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Surly1 on May 24, 2018, 04:19:28 PM
Very funny.  ;D .  Is anyone bothered about what is actually going to happen now?

North Korean Vice Minister Choe Son-hui says "Whether the U.S. will meet us at a meeting room or encounter us at nuclear-to-nuclear showdown is entirely dependent upon the decision and behavior of the United States", (like the latest war games).

Trump says “You talk about your nuclear capabilities, but ours are so massive and powerful that I pray to God they will never have to be used”.

If Xi understands how the western media works and confirms what Global Times has already said (http://), "If the US and South Korea carry out strikes and try to overthrow the North Korean regime and change the political pattern of the Korean Peninsula, China will prevent them from doing so."

How can that situation work out without nukes going off?

But let's not be so serious - lets have another joke.   ;D ;D ;D :icon_sunny:

And just who the fuck do you think you are, you sanctimonious cockroach-cultivator?

What's the over/under on nuclear war in Korea by Memorial Day? Labor Day?
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Surly1 on May 24, 2018, 04:40:32 PM

But let's not be so serious - lets have another joke.   ;D ;D ;D :icon_sunny:

Here you go, little buddy. Have another coin.

(https://scontent.forf1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/33599927_10155364418701921_7901495997816111104_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=AeH2BKZGHv-yOgK1CuUtMsLbdEsoMsH_dhipiIdnJolIiLCWEpb-7WJpQt_6VnKkBCZEzpY_S3vIrhjr9H6Ukj9W92sW9Z5VDp2OJwy-0MvogA&oh=14e8c55b51322d97fa03e107b2fa8754&oe=5BC4005E)
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on May 24, 2018, 06:36:56 PM
Quote
Surly: And just who the fuck do you think you are, you sanctimonious cockroach-cultivator?

Some people just don't like being shown to be wrong.  We are at the most dangerous time since the Cuban crisis, and with an unpredictable snake-oil salesman in the WH, and all DD has to talk about is jokes.  Anyone being serious is given the above insults.  Clearly the CoC are not going to be obeyed, even after you criticised RE over that very thing.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Surly1 on May 24, 2018, 06:51:20 PM
Quote
Surly: And just who the fuck do you think you are, you sanctimonious cockroach-cultivator?

Some people just don't like being shown to be wrong.  We are at the most dangerous time since the Cuban crisis, and with an unpredictable snake-oil salesman in the WH, and all DD has to talk about is jokes.  Anyone being serious is given the above insults.  Clearly the CoC are not going to be obeyed, even after you criticised RE over that very thing.

You think everyone here is blind or stupid? That you, and you alone are the arbiter of acceptable behavior? Or that others don't appreciate a little gallows humor at this time of existential dread?

I jumped on RE because it seemed he was furiously picking a fight with you. In this case, YOU. are attempting to pick a fight with ME. Big fucking difference.

With RE in extremis, excuse the fuck out of me if I've not a mind to tolerate your moods.

Sanctimony is exactly the word. Back off.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on May 24, 2018, 07:37:05 PM
Quote
Surly: I jumped on RE because it seemed he was furiously picking a fight with you. In this case, YOU. are attempting to pick a fight with ME.

No, I'm NOT attacking you, I just want to get someone, anyone on DD, to take this seriously and not make jokes about it.  My reasonable request for more discussion has been met with a hail of jokes and toxic insults.  The only person who made anything resembling a serious comment was RE saying "WW3 won't happen because it is not in US's interest", which is monumentally stupid and non-serious, designed as you say to pick a fight with me.

Quote
You think everyone here is blind or stupid?

Demonstrate you are not. Spare me the "a little gallows humor at this time of existential dread" get-out clause.

"What was it like in the lead up to WW3, Grandpa?"
"Oh, we just told each other jokes, you know, like you do when you don't want to think about something serious."
"Didn't you think it would happen ?"
"Well, some did and some didn't, but mostly you couldn't tell because there were only jokes to go on.  And then we woke up one morning and the power was out, and the radio didn't come on, and then we realised that WW3 had started."
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: jdwheeler42 on May 24, 2018, 08:09:09 PM
Quote
Surly: I jumped on RE because it seemed he was furiously picking a fight with you. In this case, YOU. are attempting to pick a fight with ME.

No, I'm NOT attacking you, I just want to get someone, anyone on DD, to take this seriously and not make jokes about it.  My reasonable request for more discussion has been met with a hail of jokes and toxic insults.  The only person who made anything resembling a serious comment was RE saying "WW3 won't happen because it is not in US's interest", which is monumentally stupid and non-serious, designed as you say to pick a fight with me.
I feel for you, Palloy, I know what it is like for no one to take you seriously.

I also agree with you that, save a few technical glitches, this situation is one of the most dangerous we have faced.

I don't see what we can do as individuals to prevent it.  All I can see to do as an individual is to prepare for it.  And as an individual, starting out a post-WW3 era with lung cancer, I do not see a significant life expectancy for myself.  So, I don't see much point personally in worrying about it, just enjoying what little time I have left.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Karpatok on May 24, 2018, 08:23:34 PM
Actually, Palloy, I have come back here for mainly that reason. That I find it intolerable that no one is taking the threat of nuclear war seriously. Nor any of the other horror, such as Gaza. You may recall that we had a private conversation some years back in which I was trying to show how little I thought of the sincerity and honesty of certain people here. But you got all tangled up in paranoia about whether the conversation was really secure and so I dropped it. Now you seem to be waking up. Let me just say that at Christmas of 2014 I made a post about jawboning. Probably more than one. They don't like it. They don't want any criticism at all. They really care only about the site continuing but not about the state of affairs which are continually becoming more dire. They probably will refuse to post this and say I am being what? You name it. But just don't expect to get anywhere with your pleas. Do you get it yet?
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on May 24, 2018, 09:37:47 PM
Well have you discovered anywhere where there are real doomers? We don't actually have to fix it, just understand it, and maybe speak out against it.  I would imagine that any website wanting to discuss this subject would do it in private, maybe on the dark net, and I would be happy to get involved in that.  Derrick Jensen's Forum sounds like it should be a "front" community which you play around in till someone invites you into the real hidden community, but I have not yet been invited.

Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: jdwheeler42 on May 24, 2018, 10:19:16 PM
Well have you discovered anywhere where there are real doomers? We don't actually have to fix it, just understand it, and maybe speak out against it.  I would imagine that any website wanting to discuss this subject would do it in private, maybe on the dark net, and I would be happy to get involved in that.  Derrick Jensen's Forum sounds like it should be a "front" community which you play around in till someone invites you into the real hidden community, but I have not yet been invited.
LOL... been there, done that... not Derrick Jensen, mind you, but the secret, invitation-only collapse discussion group... so long ago I haven't the foggiest idea what the name was.  At least 15 years since it folded up.

I think "doomer community" is a bit of an oxymoron.  Every collapse-aware group seems to break apart or turn into a hospice operation -- whether morose like Nature Bats Last or congenial like the Doomstead Diner.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Surly1 on May 25, 2018, 03:22:55 AM

I think "doomer community" is a bit of an oxymoron.  Every collapse-aware group seems to break apart or turn into a hospice operation -- whether morose like Nature Bats Last or congenial like the Doomstead Diner.

Well said. New motto: "Palliative care until TSHTF."
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Surly1 on May 25, 2018, 03:45:06 AM
Quote
Surly: I jumped on RE because it seemed he was furiously picking a fight with you. In this case, YOU. are attempting to pick a fight with ME.

No, I'm NOT attacking you, I just want to get someone, anyone on DD, to take this seriously and not make jokes about it.  My reasonable request for more discussion has been met with a hail of jokes and toxic insults. 

This trope is both dishonest and insane. If you don't thin k that people take the threats seriously, you monumentally underestimate the posters here. Which to you seeks like feature, not a bug.

The only person who made anything resembling a serious comment was RE saying "WW3 won't happen because it is not in US's interest", which is monumentally stupid and non-serious.

"WW3 won't happen because it is not in US's interest" might be an accurate statement, actually, if sane people were in charge. But they are not. The American public has, at long last, gotten the war n' torture government it has worked for for so long. Who WW3 will serve is the Christian Dominionists, who herald the coming Armageddon as the necessary precursor for Christ's glorious return.Moving the US embassy to Jerusalem is a major step in touching a lit match to that powder keg.

And what has that to do with Korea, you ask? The same people are in charge, and this is just another stressor. John Mustache got Trump to set aside his dreams of eclipsing-Obama Nobel glory to scuttle the talks, which just might have broken out in peace.  The greatest likelihood of a war in Korea comes from domestic politics. If the pressure gets to high, a war somewhere-- anywhere-- will in Trump's lizard brain, "unify the country." Making opposition treasonable, which will, in the fullness of time, be an act resulting in deportation by the soon-to-come Nationality Courts, where a tenuous white nationalist minority gets to pick and choose not only its voters, but now its citizens.

When you read about the sunup to the Weimar enabling acts of 1933, you realize just how tenuous a thread we hang by.

And look ma, no cartoons.

Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Golden Oxen on May 25, 2018, 04:21:57 AM

I think "doomer community" is a bit of an oxymoron.  Every collapse-aware group seems to break apart or turn into a hospice operation -- whether morose like Nature Bats Last or congenial like the Doomstead Diner.

Well said. New motto: "Palliative care until TSHTF."

Baloney, internet communities fail due to the intolerance of fresh ideas and speech control, either by an ideologue admin or the gang that takes over who will not tolerate a stranger on their turf.

The Diner was a thriving dynamic community of elderly, middle aged, and youth, Very very smart and some very stupid. Nice people and mean people, a marvelous maze of thoughts and personalities.

You all know what happened, you let it, willingly and in total agreement. Enjoy.


                                            (http://bookmans.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Fight-Censorship-2015-Promo-Box-800px.png)
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Surly1 on May 25, 2018, 04:26:22 AM

I think "doomer community" is a bit of an oxymoron.  Every collapse-aware group seems to break apart or turn into a hospice operation -- whether morose like Nature Bats Last or congenial like the Doomstead Diner.

Well said. New motto: "Palliative care until TSHTF."

Baloney, internet communities fail due to the intolerance of fresh ideas and speech control, either by an ideologue admin or the gang that takes over who will not tolerate a stranger on their turf.

The Diner was a thriving dynamic community of elderly, middle aged, and youth, Very very smart and some very stupid. Nice people and mean people, a marvelous maze of thoughts and personalities.

You all know what happened, you let it, willingly and in total agreement. Enjoy.

(http://bookmans.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Fight-Censorship-2015-Promo-Box-800px.png)

Feel free to step back up and contribute something positive to advance a discussion at any time.
Criticism of the color of the wallpaper is NOT helpful.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Golden Oxen on May 25, 2018, 04:38:06 AM
Quote
Surly: I jumped on RE because it seemed he was furiously picking a fight with you. In this case, YOU. are attempting to pick a fight with ME.

No, I'm NOT attacking you, I just want to get someone, anyone on DD, to take this seriously and not make jokes about it.  My reasonable request for more discussion has been met with a hail of jokes and toxic insults.  The only person who made anything resembling a serious comment was RE saying "WW3 won't happen because it is not in US's interest", which is monumentally stupid and non-serious, designed as you say to pick a fight with me.
I feel for you, Palloy, I know what it is like for no one to take you seriously.

I also agree with you that, save a few technical glitches, this situation is one of the most dangerous we have faced.

I don't see what we can do as individuals to prevent it.  All I can see to do as an individual is to prepare for it.  And as an individual, starting out a post-WW3 era with lung cancer, I do not see a significant life expectancy for myself.  So, I don't see much point personally in worrying about it, just enjoying what little time I have left.

Palloy is taken very seriously by me JD. A most brilliant mind and purposeful individual. Everyone of his postings has relevance and is of import to at least me.

His fault is in trying to control others or suggesting that they all be like him. It's a trait most have on the left. It's okay with me as long as they talk about it and don't try and enforce it.

Nuclear war and potential war by these crazy psychotic pricks ruling over us is something I care about have resigned myself to my personal idea, that there is nothing I can do about it, so I post very little about it.

I do feel I might be able to do a small part by coaxing my fellow doomer's into buying some gold or silver, which I believe are important and can be done by most as protection from many, not all, of Doomers possible problems, so I write about my ideas.



People like Palloy or others should try and understand we are all different and can contribute in many ways. We can post songs we like and art works to as a way to express ourselves and who we are and hope others will do the same. To me it's merely friendship and community, not demeaning to others or the title of our community.

                                    (http://hexdimension.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/community-nbc-cast.jpg)

                           

Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Golden Oxen on May 25, 2018, 04:44:25 AM

I think "doomer community" is a bit of an oxymoron.  Every collapse-aware group seems to break apart or turn into a hospice operation -- whether morose like Nature Bats Last or congenial like the Doomstead Diner.

Well said. New motto: "Palliative care until TSHTF."

Baloney, internet communities fail due to the intolerance of fresh ideas and speech control, either by an ideologue admin or the gang that takes over who will not tolerate a stranger on their turf.

The Diner was a thriving dynamic community of elderly, middle aged, and youth, Very very smart and some very stupid. Nice people and mean people, a marvelous maze of thoughts and personalities.

You all know what happened, you let it, willingly and in total agreement. Enjoy.

(http://bookmans.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Fight-Censorship-2015-Promo-Box-800px.png)

Feel free to step back up and contribute something positive to advance a discussion at any time.
Criticism of the color of the wallpaper is NOT helpful.

Thanks for your input and invitation Surly.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Golden Oxen on May 25, 2018, 05:27:44 AM
Actually, Palloy, I have come back here for mainly that reason. That I find it intolerable that no one is taking the threat of nuclear war seriously.

Not being sarcastic K, just puzzled. What does moving have to do with fearing nuclear war?

Isn't that akin to hiding in a closet of a house that's on fire?  :icon_scratch:
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Eddie on May 25, 2018, 05:36:58 AM
Quote
Surly: I jumped on RE because it seemed he was furiously picking a fight with you. In this case, YOU. are attempting to pick a fight with ME.

No, I'm NOT attacking you, I just want to get someone, anyone on DD, to take this seriously and not make jokes about it.  My reasonable request for more discussion has been met with a hail of jokes and toxic insults.  The only person who made anything resembling a serious comment was RE saying "WW3 won't happen because it is not in US's interest", which is monumentally stupid and non-serious, designed as you say to pick a fight with me.
I feel for you, Palloy, I know what it is like for no one to take you seriously.

I also agree with you that, save a few technical glitches, this situation is one of the most dangerous we have faced.

I don't see what we can do as individuals to prevent it.  All I can see to do as an individual is to prepare for it.  And as an individual, starting out a post-WW3 era with lung cancer, I do not see a significant life expectancy for myself.  So, I don't see much point personally in worrying about it, just enjoying what little time I have left.

Palloy is taken very seriously by me JD. A most brilliant mind and purposeful individual. Everyone of his postings has relevance and is of import to at least me.

His fault is in trying to control others or suggesting that they all be like him. It's a trait most have on the left. It's okay with me as long as they talk about it and don't try and enforce it.

Nuclear war and potential war by these crazy psychotic pricks ruling over us is something I care about have resigned myself to my personal idea, that there is nothing I can do about it, so I post very little about it.

I do feel I might be able to do a small part by coaxing my fellow doomer's into buying some gold or silver, which I believe are important and can be done by most as protection from many, not all, of Doomers possible problems, so I write about my ideas.



People like Palloy or others should try and understand we are all different and can contribute in many ways. We can post songs we like and art works to as a way to express ourselves and who we are and hope others will do the same. To me it's merely friendship and community, not demeaning to others or the title of our community.

                                    (http://hexdimension.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/community-nbc-cast.jpg)

                           

Pretty much exactly what I felt like saying here. I live my life by certain principles. One of those is to not waste energy on things completely beyond my control, as described by what some people call the Serenity Prayer.

God grant me the courage to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

What is it that people would discuss in secret on the dark web that would impact events more than our discussions in plain sight?

Maybe it would allow some people to talk about their monkeywrenching fantasies in which they act out against TPTB, and make all kinds of meaningless noises about revolution and printing leaflets and pamphlets to educate people who can no longer concentrate well enough to understand anything with more than 140 characters.

Maybe they could dream up massive protests with thousands in the streets insisting on positive changes in foreign policy and energy policy and housing policy and climate change policy and all the other things that are so fucked up in the world. (But don't hold your breath waiting.)

Maybe you could even work some dumbass up enough to get him to commit some illegal act, maybe commit violence. I wonder if that is your intent.

Don't mistake a lack of high anxiety for a lack of concern. It's just that I've had this threat of getting nuked as an existential threat for so very long now, more than 50 years. I came to terms with it a long time ago. Getting excited does nothing. Instead I stockpile food and water and drugs and batteries, and I have iodine and a geiger counter and a respirator. You do what makes you feel better. I'm about as ready as I can get.

Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Surly1 on May 25, 2018, 06:12:33 AM

Pretty much exactly what I felt like saying here. I live my life by certain principles. One of those is to not waste energy on things completely beyond my control, as described by what some people call the Serenity Prayer.

God grant me the courage to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

What is it that people would discuss in secret on the dark web that would impact events more than our discussions in plain sight?

Maybe it would allow some people to talk about their monkeywrenching fantasies in which they act out against TPTB, and make all kinds of meaningless noises about revolution and printing leaflets and pamphlets to educate people who can no longer concentrate well enough to understand anything with more than 140 characters.

Maybe they could dream up massive protests with thousands in the streets insisting on positive changes in foreign policy and energy policy and housing policy and climate change policy and all the other things that are so fucked up in the world. (But don't hold your breath waiting.)

Maybe you could even work some dumbass up enough to get him to commit some illegal act, maybe commit violence. I wonder if that is your intent.

Don't mistake a lack of high anxiety for a lack of concern.

Thanks for posting this, and putting it better than I could.

We tend to forget that the sense that this fragile and limited planet (or more precisely, the virus inhabiting it) is under thread from so many different vectors, all at the same time. It is this awareness that has led each of us to seek our forums like this. A decent respect for other people would seem to indicate that perhaps we should tread lightly in terms of rendering summary judgment.

But then, I dream.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Golden Oxen on May 25, 2018, 06:41:41 AM
God grant me the courage to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

Great quote Eddie.

Reminds me of something a Jesuit told us in class that always stuck with me.

He was making fun of Dicken's and how he had nothing to say and was an author for children.

Ebenezer Scrooge was the topic as he voiced his opinion that people "Never Change"

Misers don't wake up one day and throw their money on the streets and yell "Merry Christmas Everyone" he told us.

Maturity is learning to accept people for what they are and learn how to try and work with them and understand how and why they are different from you and how to reach a common ground of some understanding he said. Was a kid and asshole at the time and didn't like hearing it, used to believe in Fairy Tales. Still an ass but at least realize now how very smart that priest was.  :-\


                                     (http://drkimfoster.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/ebenezer-scrooge.png)
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on May 25, 2018, 07:20:54 AM
Quote
Eddie: God grant me the courage to accept the things I cannot change

What a defeatist load of garbage, echoed by Surly and RE (in his cooking video) and now praised by GO.
You are all going to your imminent deaths saying, "I can't do anything to change it." and that I'm the bad guy for trying to get you to act like adults.   

TPTB must be laughing to themselves silly knowing that the US population is so demoralised that they can't even abide to hear an angry voice raised in protest. Eddie has his dark suspicions that I am trying to get you to do the unthinkable - "commit an act of violence".  Yes , I am, in a way.  I don't want to tell you what to do.  But I want you to be so angry that you are not going to take it any more.  Set fire to something, or shoot something, or throw rocks. Just don't say "I can't do anything" like a drugged out zombie.  How happy are your stores of dried food going to make you, while everyone else is dying of hunger?  How happy will God be as he watches you doing your highest duty of looking after yourself and your family, to the exclusion of the rest of society? 

Standing by for the next volley of insults.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Golden Oxen on May 25, 2018, 07:38:24 AM
Quote
Eddie: God grant me the courage to accept the things I cannot change

What a defeatist load of garbage, echoed by Surly and RE (in his cooking video) and now praised by GO.
You are all going to your imminent deaths saying, "I can't do anything to change it." and that I'm the bad guy for trying to get you to act like adults.   

TPTB must be laughing to themselves silly knowing that the US population is so demoralised that they can't even abide to hear an angry voice raised in protest. Eddie has his dark suspicions that I am trying to get you to do the unthinkable - "commit an act of violence".  Yes , I am, in a way.  I don't want to tell you what to do.  But I want you to be so angry that you are not going to take it any more.  Set fire to something, or shoot something, or throw rocks. Just don't say "I can't do anything" like a drugged out zombie.  How happy are your stores of dried food going to make you, while everyone else is dying of hunger?  How happy will God be as he watches you doing your highest duty of looking after yourself and your family, to the exclusion of the rest of society? 

Standing by for the next volley of insults.

Speaking for myself Palloy, your point both is understandable and acceptable. As I stated you are a different person than me.

I is What I is, mean no harm, and understand how you feel. Just the way it is, Sorry Palloy.  :dontknow:
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Eddie on May 25, 2018, 08:02:35 AM
Just sorry to realize you have no idea that you stand to do more harm than good with your agenda. I don't want to insult you, but I'd like you to see that your actions might have more negative consequences than positive. Especially for anyone who buys into your approach and decides to "take up arms against a sea of troubles", as someone once said.

You're a loose cannon on the internet. Possibly dangerous to other people. Even though you yourself are fairly insulated from the authorities here, who are as serious as a heartbeat in coming down hard on terrorists of any stripe.

You are fairly close to the line with your dark web underground fantasy ideas. All it would take is a few of us talking about some concrete step to do some of what Ted K. would regard as God's work. There are plenty of impressionable people in the world whom you might be able to influence. And that's obviously exactly what you'd like to do.

Be careful about what you say here. Save the revolutionary rhetoric for whatever dark web rabble you can find. None of us wants to be your tool.

I do not regard myself as defeatist. But I damn sure pick my battles, and especially my leaders. You are Don Quixote looking for Sancho Panza. I wouldn't line up behind you at the grocery store.

Is that an insult? It's the truth.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Karpatok on May 25, 2018, 08:47:15 AM
Actually, Palloy, I have come back here for mainly that reason. That I find it intolerable that no one is taking the threat of nuclear war seriously.

Not being sarcastic K, just puzzled. What does moving have to do with fearing nuclear war?

Isn't that akin to hiding in a closet of a house that's on fire?  :icon_scratch:
I am certainly not hiding in a closet, GO. I am avoiding Civil War. I am avoiding being shot or shot at either en masse or singularly. I am avoiding many many extremely distasteful goings on and putrid propaganda there of. I have here a pretty peaceful spot where people mostly share the traditional values I was brought up with. Of course with the US marauding the world conflagration could come anywhere. Some enemies have been expelled from here which is a good thing. I am mostly lying low leading a peaceful life. This is probably not my final destination. As far as Eddies warnings to Palloy I pretty much agree. I have never been for anarchic street violence and disorder nor for plain Jane terrorism even though that is what the US has plainly become. A terrorist state supporting terrorist groups. I do think that reaching people by the Internet and informing them if they are capable of reading which is more and more doubtful, is the best way. BTtW, there are stronger privacy laws in Europe than in the US. And as for patriotism, how can one be genuinely patriotic if ones country, it's majority population and most of its elites have lost all moral compass and sanity. It's time to pray. And I am.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Surly1 on May 25, 2018, 11:01:31 AM
Actually, Palloy, I have come back here for mainly that reason. That I find it intolerable that no one is taking the threat of nuclear war seriously.

Not being sarcastic K, just puzzled. What does moving have to do with fearing nuclear war?

Isn't that akin to hiding in a closet of a house that's on fire?  :icon_scratch:
I am certainly not hiding in a closet, GO. I am avoiding Civil War. I am avoiding being shot or shot at either en masse or singularly. I am avoiding many many extremely distasteful goings on and putrid propaganda there of. I have here a pretty peaceful spot where people mostly share the traditional values I was brought up with. Of course with the US marauding the world conflagration could come anywhere. Some enemies have been expelled from here which is a good thing. I am mostly lying low leading a peaceful life. This is probably not my final destination. As far as Eddies warnings to Palloy I pretty much agree. I have never been for anarchic street violence and disorder nor for plain Jane terrorism even though that is what the US has plainly become. A terrorist state supporting terrorist groups. I do think that reaching people by the Internet and informing them if they are capable of reading which is more and more doubtful, is the best way. BTtW, there are stronger privacy laws in Europe than in the US. And as for patriotism, how can one be genuinely patriotic if ones country, it's majority population and most of its elites have lost all moral compass and sanity. It's time to pray. And I am.

Quote from: Karpatok
A terrorist state supporting terrorist groups.
//
As for patriotism, how can one be genuinely patriotic if ones country, it's majority population and most of its elites have lost all moral compass and sanity.

KK for the win.

Am personally haunted by the thought that "we" are the bad guys, and that rest of an outraged world will, in the fullness of time, get tired of taking our shit...

We've just elevated Torture Queen Gina Haspel to be head of the CIA, forever putting torture and black site activity out of the reach of whatever "justice" might obtain, although the idea, once written, seems ludicrous.

One of the people that was tortured at the Cat’s Eye prison in Thailand when Gina Haspel was running it was Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, who was picked up for suspected involvement in the U.S.S. Cole bombing in 2000. Nashiri was suffocated with water — waterboarding — subjected to mock execution with a drill and gun while standing naked and hooded, anal rape through rectal feeding, threatened that his mother would be sexually assaulted, lifted off the ground by arms while they were bound behind his back after which a medical officer opined that shoulders might be dislocated.

At Haspel's confirmation hearing, no Senator asked about these so-called unauthorized techniques — everyone was focused on the technicality of legal memos, and no one talked about all of the other things beyond waterboarding that’s done to these prisoners. The focus was on waterboarding, as if that was the sum of all cruel things. It is clearly not.

And the vast majority of Americans don't know or care. Hey, what are you trying to do? Fuck up a holiday weekend?
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Surly1 on May 25, 2018, 11:10:34 AM
Quote
Eddie: God grant me the courage to accept the things I cannot change

What a defeatist load of garbage, echoed by Surly and RE (in his cooking video) and now praised by GO.
You are all going to your imminent deaths saying, "I can't do anything to change it." and that I'm the bad guy for trying to get you to act like adults.   

TPTB must be laughing to themselves silly knowing that the US population is so demoralised that they can't even abide to hear an angry voice raised in protest. Eddie has his dark suspicions that I am trying to get you to do the unthinkable - "commit an act of violence".  Yes , I am, in a way.  I don't want to tell you what to do.  But I want you to be so angry that you are not going to take it any more.  Set fire to something, or shoot something, or throw rocks. Just don't say "I can't do anything" like a drugged out zombie.  How happy are your stores of dried food going to make you, while everyone else is dying of hunger?  How happy will God be as he watches you doing your highest duty of looking after yourself and your family, to the exclusion of the rest of society? 

Standing by for the next volley of insults.

Each to his own.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Golden Oxen on May 25, 2018, 02:12:55 PM
Misunderstood Karpatok.

Thought you were trying to hide from the big fire crackers going off.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Karpatok on May 25, 2018, 02:35:22 PM
Misunderstood Karpatok.

Thought you were trying to hide from the big fire crackers going off.
I haven't a clue about what you mean. What big fire crackers going off? What's all this allusion to hiding? And why are you draped in braggadocio anonymity? What are You hiding? What are you hiding from?
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on May 25, 2018, 03:29:37 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/ZwMVMbmQBug

JUST DO SOMETHING ONCE BEFORE YOU DIE. 
Get angry.  Fight back, although the situation is hopeless. Take a risk. Die on your feet, not on your knees. Are you a man or a mouse?

"Oooooh, God wouldn't want me to do that, he would want me to keep working and paying my taxes, he would want me to eat my dried beans and be proud I had protected my family from the nuclear war, and accept my fate!"

Pathetic zombies.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Golden Oxen on May 25, 2018, 03:41:55 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/ZwMVMbmQBug

JUST DO SOMETHING ONCE BEFORE YOU DIE. 
Get angry.  Fight back, although the situation is hopeless. Take a risk. Die on your feet, not on your knees. Are you a man or a mouse?

"Oooooh, God wouldn't want me to do that, he would want me to keep working and paying my taxes, he would want me to eat my dried beans and be proud I had protected my family from the nuclear war, and accept my fate!"

Pathetic zombies.

Your over doing it now Palloy and acting like a horse's ass 17 year old.

No fucking good will come of it. That's the fucking point.

You may as well stick your fucking head into a toilet bowl and scream your fucking head off.

We care. We Get it. Thanks for your input and determination. Let me assure you your message has been received  by all and we would love to help.     Thanks Again,     GO


                               (https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https://regmedia.co.uk/2013/08/17/nuclear_explosion.jpg?x=1200&y=794&f=1)
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Surly1 on May 25, 2018, 04:16:19 PM
Pretty perceptive.

Trump’s and Bolton’s Instincts Form a Toxic Combination (https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/05/trumps-and-boltons-instincts-form-a-toxic-combination/561275/)

 
 
John Bolton looking at President Trump
National-Security Adviser John Bolton at a Cabinet meeting in AprilEVAN VUCCI / AP
 

Why did the Trump administration cancel its much-hyped nuclear summit with North Korea? And why the confusing semi-backtrack the following day, in which Trump embraced North Korea’s “warm and productive statement” regretting the cancellation, and left the door open to a meeting he’d ditched barely 24 hours before? The answer lies in the toxic interplay between Donald Trump’s instincts and John Bolton’s. Each man’s foreign-policy views are dangerous enough in and of themselves. Put them together and you have the perfect cocktail for the decimation of American power.

Bolton is a Manichean in the tradition of his hero, Barry Goldwater. He has spent his career depicting America’s adversaries—the Soviet Union, Cuba, Saddam Hussein’s Iraq, and these days, Iran and North Korea—as evil. He denies that they have any legitimate security concerns. He abhors compromise. He demands maximum American economic, political and, if necessary, military pressure. He basic negotiating posture is: Once you give in on everything, then we’ll start talking.

But while Bolton’s Manicheanism is dangerous, it’s also targeted. Bolton wants to turn the screws on Iran and North Korea. He doesn’t want to turn the screws on American allies like Germany, France, South Korea, and Japan—except to the degree that they resist a hardline posture towards North Korea and Iran. Bolton has little use for international law but he likes America’s alliances.

Trump is different. He doesn’t divide the world into virtuous, pro-American regimes, which the United States should support, and villainous anti-American ones, which the United States should crush. Trump is less ideological. Instinctively, he believes that almost every regime is ripping America off—the adversaries and the allies too. That inclines him to pick a broader array of fights. But it also makes him more willing to resolve them. Trump is not moralistic and he’s not a stickler for detail. Bolton seems to want to be the 21st-century version of Reagan (as he’s imagined in conservative mythology): standing up to the evil enemy and bringing about its downfall. Trump seems to want to be the political version of Trump the real-estate whiz (as he’s imagined in Trump’s own mythology): cutting great deals that make everyone rich.

The Trump administration’s North Korea policy is what happens when you put these two instincts together. On his own, it’s unlikely Bolton would have agreed to a summit with Kim Jong Un in the first place since it violates one of his core principles: Never concede anything until the other side does first. Bolton’s maximalism would have made any diplomatic deal with Pyongyang unlikely. But Bolton—because he draws a clear distinction between America’s enemies and its allies—would probably not have picked a fight with South Korea over steel tariffs. Nor would he have risked a trade war with China while seeking its help in pressuring North Korea. Bolton is a national-security hardliner, not a trade hardliner.

Trump, on the other hand, was elected as much to confront America’s economic partners as to confront its national-security adversaries. So he threatened trade wars with China, South Korea and Japan even as he threatened a real one with Pyongyang.

But Trump’s love of the deal also led him to embrace a summit with North Korea that he believed might bring him the adulation and vindication he craves. Left to his own devices, he might have attended the summit, agreed to some vague, flowery language about denuclearization, demanded the Nobel Prize, and moved on to other subjects even as North Korea didn’t actually eliminate its nuclear program. And indeed, all it took was an expression of North Korean regret to get Trump to start speculating that the June 12 summit could be back on, and that “we’ll see what happens.” Given the importance of avoiding war on the Korean Peninsula, and the benefits of opening up North Korea to South Korean influence, that would constitute progress.

But not for Bolton, who laid down a marker by declaring that his model was Libya, wherein Muammer Qaddafi utterly capitulated. The North Koreans—who are terrified of the Libya model because they believe Qaddafi’s denuclearization left him vulnerable to Western regime change—responded with fury. And while Trump tried to keep the summit on track by declaring that America wasn’t seeking regime change, he managed to threaten it nonetheless, as did Mike Pence. As North Korea’s rhetoric grew more bellicose, Trump reportedly began to fear that the summit would bring him not glory but embarrassment. As Trump’s biographer, Tony Schwartz, told The New York Times, “Trump has a morbid fear of being humiliated and shamed. This is showing who’s the biggest and the strongest, so he is exquisitely sensitive to the possibility that he would end up looking weak and small.” This analysis was corroborated by an NBC report suggesting Trump pulled out of the summit because he feared the North Koreans would first.

In the end, Trumpism and Boltonism have produced an outcome that’s worse than either on its own. The summit is or maybe isn’t off, and the U.S. is back to threatening war but confusingly somehow seeking talks. None of this enhances Trump’s credibility as a negotiating partner. Meanwhile, North Korea still has its nuclear weapons, and could resume testing them. By confronting Beijing on trade, the U.S. has squandered some of the leverage it needs to convince China to keep imposing tough sanctions on Pyongyang. And with his initial letter cancelling the summit, Trump surprised and humiliated South Korean leader Moon Jae In, who may still pursue détente with the North whether or not Trump rescinds his cancellation, thus undermining Trump and Bolton’s maximum-pressure campaign. South Korea may also draw closer to China, which would leave the U.S. more isolated in Northeast Asia than it has been in decades.

 
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on May 25, 2018, 05:59:28 PM
Quote
Trump’s and Bolton’s Instincts Form a Toxic Combination

Completely ignores US-SK war games, which runs counter to section 2.1 of the Declaration, signed only 3 weeks before.  Completely ignores that "denuclearising the Korean peninsula" means the US denuclearising too.
Kim needs to make another statement so that it is absolutely clear on what point the talks are going to fail.
Xi should help him out here by restating their position on defending him if the US strikes first.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: jdwheeler42 on May 25, 2018, 07:52:48 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/ZwMVMbmQBug
This is how a man like Trump GOT elected....
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on May 25, 2018, 09:10:46 PM
And now its back on again.  That took a lot of persuasion, didn't it?
They still won't be able to agree on an outcome.

https://www.rt.com/usa/427829-trump-kim-summit-productive-talks/ (https://www.rt.com/usa/427829-trump-kim-summit-productive-talks/)
Trump says he's having 'very productive talks' with N. Korea on reinstating summit
26 May, 2018

US President Donald Trump says "very productive talks" are underway with North Korea on holding the June 12 summit in Singapore. Talks on reinstating the meeting came within 24 hours of Trump's previously abrupt cancellation.

In a tweet, Trump confirmed that if the elusive meetup with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un does happen, it will likely remain at the earlier scheduled date and place: on June 12 in Singapore.

    We are having very productive talks with North Korea about reinstating the Summit which, if it does happen, will likely remain in Singapore on the same date, June 12th., and, if necessary, will be extended beyond that date.
    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 26, 2018

The potentially unprecedented meeting, a first-ever between a sitting US president and a North Korean leader, has been in the making for months. Trump had been erratic in his statements about the summit during the period, taking his time in narrowing down the time and place, and threatening to cancel or walk out of the meeting if he does not get his way. In the end, he called it off on Thursday, after the North Korean vice-minister of foreign affairs took issue with US Vice President Pence's threats of a "Libyan scenario" for Pyongyang: what started as a description of how the US helped Libya get rid of its nuke research in 2003, ultimately also came to include the 2011 overthrow and murder of Muammar Gaddafi.

With that, Trump's rhetoric was abruptly back to touting the US' military readiness and comparing whose nukes are bigger, like he did back in January with his infamous "bigger nuclear button" tweet. All of that, hours after North Korea publicly destroyed its only nuclear test site in a gesture of goodwill.

Then, on Friday, Trump said the summit was on the cards again, summing it up with the phrase "everybody plays games." If his tweets are to be believed, he was moved by the North's statement in the wake of the cancellation. Pyongyang said it was willing to sit down"at any time, in any way" to resolve its differences with Washington for the sake of "peace and stability of the Korean peninsula and mankind."

Earlier, the North itself had threatened to cancel the summit over joint US-South Korean military drills at its border. The exercises have been a part of Trump's policy of "maximum pressure" on Pyongyang, which also included a slew of crippling economic sanctions and, until recently, regular barrages of belligerent rhetoric.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on May 26, 2018, 07:08:16 AM
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-05-26/kim-jong-un-holds-surprise-meeting-south-korea-president-moon (https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-05-26/kim-jong-un-holds-surprise-meeting-south-korea-president-moon)
Kim Jong-Un Holds Surprise Second Summit With South Korea President Moon
Tyler Durden
05/26/2018

North Korea's president Kim Jong Un held a surprise two-hour second summit with South Korean President Moon Jae-in at the truce village of Panmunjom on Saturday afternoon to pave way for a summit between North Korea and the United States.

The South Korean presidential office said the two leaders met at the DPRK side of the border village of Panmunjom from 3:00 pm to 5:00 pm local time on Saturday, where they "candidly discussed the potential Trump-Kim summit", and exchanged their opinions on implementing the April 27 Panmunjom Declaration.
South Korean President Moon Jae-in bids fairwell to North Korean leader Kim Jong Un as he leaves after their summit at the truce village of Panmunjom, North Korea, May 26, 2018. [Photo: VCG]

Moon will release the result of the summit at 10:00 a.m. local time on Sunday, South Korea's Blue House said, without elaborating further.

The two leaders previously met on the South Korean side of Panmunjom on April 27, reaching a historic agreement on the complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula and the change of the current armistice agreement into a peace treaty.

Their second summit came after U.S. President Donald Trump said on Friday that the United States will possibly reinstate the meeting with Kim. Late on Friday Trump said that "we are having very productive talks with North Korea about reinstating the Summit which, if it does happen, will likely remain in Singapore on the same date, June 12th., and, if necessary, will be extended beyond that date."

Trump on Thursday surprised the world when he sent a letter to the DPRK leader, saying that their originally planned meeting in Singapore on June 12 will not happen. DPRK's First Vice Foreign Minister Kim Kye Gwan responded then that his country is ready to sit down with the United States anytime in any manner for talks to solve the problems existing between them.

China also chimed in on China, when it said that it hoped the DPRK and the U.S. would cherish the recent progress and continue to address mutual concerns via dialogue and push for the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.

The South Korean government also said Friday that Seoul planned to continue diplomatic efforts to maintain a dialogue momentum between the DPRK and the United States. According to the Blue House, at a National Security Council (NSC) meeting held on Friday, the NSC members shared a view that efforts to improve inter-Korean relations will contribute to enhance relations between Pyongyang and Washington and complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Surly1 on May 26, 2018, 11:32:59 AM
Kim Jong-Un Holds Surprise Second Summit With South Korea President Moon

North Korea's president Kim Jong Un held a surprise two-hour second summit with South Korean President Moon Jae-in at the truce village of Panmunjom on Saturday afternoon to pave way for a summit between North Korea and the United States.

Saw this new s earlier today, and laughed out loud.

Wonder how Yosemite Sam Bolton is handling the nooze?

http://www.youtube.com/v/B12eVCBbGsw
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on June 01, 2018, 12:46:05 AM
While NK's deputation is in Washington and is still talking, Kim Jong Un has met Russia's Lavrov and has agreed to meet with Putin in Moscow soon.  Multiple meeting between NK/SK staff.  So everything going well from Kim's point of view. There is a suggestion that the US-NK summit will perhaps last for a week. 

Meanwhile Trump is having a less good time, with his steel and aluminium tariffs causing a retaliatory response from Canada.  The vassals are getting very upitty.

Still no public clarification of US's interpretation of what denuclearisation means for US forces, so the critical matter won't be decided until later.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on June 03, 2018, 07:51:05 PM
Kim is NOT going to give up his nukes without the US giving up its troops in SK, and overflights of the Korean peninsula with nuclear bombers, and aircraft carrier groups in the Korean ADIZ which reaches half way to Japan.  After the summit fails, Kim will give a media conference (in perfect English) explaining what he wants and how the US wasn't prepared to give an inch.  When the infuriated US attacks, Kim will launch his ICBMs (at least six) and detonate them over the US for their EMP effect and 90% of Amerikans will be dead within a year as will all NKers. 

The world will say "How appalling!", but think "Good riddance".

https://www.rt.com/news/428582-nkorea-sanctions-relief-mattis/ (https://www.rt.com/news/428582-nkorea-sanctions-relief-mattis/)
No sanctions relief for N. Korea until ‘verifiable & irreversible’ denuclearization – Mattis
3 Jun, 2018

Pyongyang will have to demonstrate clear steps towards denuclearization before any sanctions are eased, US Defense Secretary James Mattis has warned, ahead of highly anticipated US-North Korean leaders’ talks.

“We will continue to implement all UN Security Council resolutions on North Korea. North Korea will receive relief only when it demonstrates verifiable and irreversible steps to denuclearization,” Mattis stated in Singapore on Sunday.

The remark was given at a meeting with the South Korean and Japanese defense ministers, Itsunori Onodera and Song Young-moo, on the sidelines of the Asia Security Summit, known as the Shangri-La Dialogue. It was the first time since October that the three top defense officials have met.

“We can anticipate, at best, a bumpy road to the negotiations,” the defense secretary added.

After the trilateral talks, South Korea’s Young-moo said recent developments in North Korea were cause for cautious optimism, but this opinion was apparently not shared by his Japanese counterpart. “Japan, Korea and the US continue to agree that pressure is needed to be applied on North Korea,” Onodera told reporters.

The talks between US President Donald Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong-un are scheduled for June 12. The meeting has been already cancelled and subsequently rescheduled by Washington.

Trump has said that he wants to see the North fully denuclearized, and Kim appears to support this position. However, Pyongyang first wants security guarantees from Washington, which has yet to step back from drills with its allies on the North Korean doorstep. US maneuvers in the region have always been deemed acts of aggression by Pyongyang.

Some high-ranking US officials recently made controversial statements about thwarting the North’s nuclear program, triggering harsh reaction from Pyongyang. Last month, US Vice-President Mike Pence said that North Korea might end up like Libya if Kim fails to make a deal on nukes. Earlier, US National Security Advisor John Bolton also mentioned the “Libyan model” of surrendering the nuclear arsenal as well.

Less than 10 years after Tripoli gave up its nuclear research materials and sent them to the US in 2003, its government was overthrown with the help of NATO-led intervention.
Title: Re: The Korea thread - Who's That Ringing the Korean Bell of Friendship?
Post by: Golden Oxen on June 05, 2018, 04:56:57 AM
Palloy, this ones for you.  :exp-grin:  It has always been my layman's view that there is no North Korea, just China running the country through a puppet regime.  :dontknow:

 (https://economicprism.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/KoreanFriendshipBell.png)

economicprism.com
Who's That Ringing the Korean Bell of Friendship?
Posted on
5-7 minutes

Do citizens of the United States trust their government will do what’s right?  It depends who you ask.

By and large, the esteem the American populace holds its government in is likely a small fraction of what it was roughly 65 years ago.  That was when Lieutenant General William Kelly Harrison Jr. signed the Korean Armistice Agreement.  Certainly, in days gone by representatives of other nations held the U.S. government in higher regard.

Several weeks ago, President Donald Trump decided to pull the U.S. out of the Iran nuclear deal and reimpose sanctions on Iran.  This action, and its implications for various European companies with business interests in Iran, stuck like a chicken bone in the craw of European Council President Donald Tusk.  “With friends like that who needs enemies,” tweeted Tusk.

Indeed, President Trump is an erratic fellow.  He’s a master table pounder.  He goes about his business with passion and the appearance of purpose.  His emotions run hot.  Yet, he has ice in his veins.

Moreover, his strategy for making America great again is unclear.  One day he starts a trade war.  The next day he lends a helping hand to Chinese telecom company ZTE.

If you recall, ZTE’s the company that was busted for illegally exporting U.S. technology to Iran and North Korea in violation of trade sanctions.  Are Trump’s actions all part of his art of the deal?  Or are they the ambiguities of a lunatic?

Whatever they may be, Trump better have his act together.  In less than a fortnight, he’ll begin negotiating what may be the most important deal of his life…sparking up a new bromance with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un.

What follows is a scratch for clarity…
The Korean Bell of Friendship

Angel’s Gate Park sits high upon the bluffs at the southern tip of the Palos Verdes Peninsula, in the San Pedro district of Los Angeles.  Winds gusts off the Pacific Ocean from three directions, explode up the face of the sea cliffs, and wildly swirl about the park’s crest.

Sweeping views of the mega Port of Los Angeles / Port of Long Beach shipping complex fill the eastern scenic scape.  To the west, sits the posh homes of Rancho Palos Verdes, and Trump National Golf Course.  Periodically, the 18th hole slides into the sea.

Catalina Island rises from the waters like a mountain berg to the south.  Peering over the bluff, past Point Fermin Lighthouse, the vertical expanse of the island appears to be just a short swim away.  Lastly, to the north are the seedy streets of San Pedro; the former stomping grounds of the late poet Charles Bukowski.

At the center of Angel’s Gate Park, just south of the youth hostel, sits the Korean Bell of Friendship.  The massive bronze bell is positioned over a stone pavilion.  The imposing pyramidal roof structure, supported by twelve columns, is etched with ornate Korean zodiac animals and vibrant color patterns.

Immediately, beneath the ground where the bell sits are the old abandoned World War I bunkers of Fort MacArthur, named after Lieutenant General Arthur MacArthur – father of World War II General Douglas MacArthur.  Several remnants of massive gun battery emplacements are located immediately adjacent.  This site falls within the area of The Great Los Angeles Air Raid of 1942, where Los Angeles fell under – real or imagined? – attack from a squadron of Japanese bombers.

Apparently, the Korean Bell of Friendship was given to the U.S. government to celebrate the bicentennial of the U.S. and to symbolize friendship between the two countries.  A big part of that friendship has been the protection the U.S. has afforded South Korea over the decades.  South Korea, in turn, has flourished, while North Korea has flagged.
Who’s That Ringing the Korean Bell of Friendship?

No doubt, ‘Rocket Man’ Kim Jong-un is a madman.  And a madman with nuclear missiles is trouble in the making.  But so is U.S. airmen overseeing ICBMs while on hallucinogenic drugs.  Either one could unleash a paranoid fury of barbarism on the world.

Over the Memorial Day weekend a delightful picture of Kim Jong-un and South Korean President Moon Jae-in cascaded across the World Wide Web.  Following a surprise summit at the truce village of Panmunjom, the two partook in what The Telegraph has called, “a triple hug.”

Could it be that Kim Jong-un has come to his senses?  Or is he positioning for his own art of the deal?  His rapid change of heart seems rather improbable.

The once off, June 12 meeting in Singapore between President Trump and Kim Jong-un is currently back on.  Maybe this will be the spark of a new bromance.

Who knows?  Unlike Moon Jae-in, Trump’s not much of a hugger.  But he’s always good for a lengthy grip and grin.

For better or for worse, the world’s a vastly different place than it was when the Korean Armistice Agreement was signed on July 27, 1953.  The U.S. can no longer afford to hold the DMZ line.  Perhaps the time has come for America to close up shop and vacate its military operations on the Korean Peninsula.

Surely, China would like Washington out of its backyard.  Hence, via their pal Kim Jong-un, China rings the Korean Bell of Friendship.  What in the world will Trump do?

Sincerely,

MN Gordon
for Economic Prism

 Note - Pictures added are from another sight that posted the article and embellished it. GO decided to post them here as well but they are not from the original article.

                     (http://www.acting-man.com/blog/media/2018/06/Korean_War_armistice_agreement_1953-1024x460.jpg)
   
The most austere signing ceremony ever: Lieut. Gen. William K. Harrison, Jr. (seated left), and Korean People’s Army and Chinese People’s Volunteers delegate Gen. Nam Il (seated right) sign the Korean War armistice agreement at P’anmunjŏm, Korea, July 27, 1953. No-one seems really happy – presumably, no-one was. [PT]


                              (http://www.acting-man.com/blog/media/2018/06/meeting-the-threat-1-1024x502.jpg)
                                     
Tusk meets the “Trump threat” to search for a lost contact lens in Brussels. [PT]

Photo credit: AP


                               (http://www.acting-man.com/blog/media/2018/06/bell-2.jpg)
                                                Korean bell of friendship at Angel’s Gate Park.

Photo credit: J.H.C.

 

                                  (http://www.acting-man.com/blog/media/2018/06/Panmunjom-1024x576.jpg)
                                         
         Kim and Moon meet at the 38th parallel.

Photo credit: Reuters/Korea Summit Press Pool


 
                            (http://www.acting-man.com/blog/media/2018/06/Illegal-border-crossing-1024x807.jpg)
                                   
               Illegal border crossing in progress.

Photo credit: Reuters/Korea Summit Press Pool


                     (http://www.acting-man.com/blog/media/2018/06/summit-search.jpg)

                                     Extensive summit search… [PT]

https://economicprism.com/whos-that-ringing-the-korean-bell-of-friendship/ (https://economicprism.com/whos-that-ringing-the-korean-bell-of-friendship/)  :icon_study: :icon_study:


Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Karpatok on June 05, 2018, 09:09:36 AM
Very good point made once by Eddie. Blood will always be thicker than water. One Korea plus cousin China. Who is kidding whom. The real loudmouth blow hard better get back to minding his own flock of geese progeny, quackers and followers. Lots of feathers to be blown about by that putrid breath plus added storm force from abroad as everyone wakes up to who is the real madman.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on June 06, 2018, 09:13:28 PM
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/428862-trump-north-korea-summit/ (https://www.rt.com/op-ed/428862-trump-north-korea-summit/)
Rambouillet ruse? Why Trump could be setting up his North Korea talks to fail
Dan Glazebrook
Dan Glazebrook is a freelance political writer who has written for RT, Counterpunch, Z magazine, the Morning Star, the Guardian, the New Statesman, the Independent and Middle East Eye, amongst others. His first book “Divide and Ruin: The West’s Imperial Strategy in an Age of Crisis” was published by Liberation Media in October 2013. It featured a collection of articles written from 2009 onwards examining the links between economic collapse, the rise of the BRICS, war on Libya and Syria and 'austerity'. He is currently researching a book on US-British use of sectarian death squads against independent states and movements from Northern Ireland and Central America in the 1970s and 80s to the Middle East and Africa today.
6 Jun, 2018

President Trump has set the bar of success so high for his forthcoming meeting with Kim Jong-un, it is difficult to see how it could possibly be met.

As the New York Times noted last month, “To meet his own definition of success, Mr. Trump will have to persuade Mr. Kim to accept ‘complete, verifiable and irreversible denuclearization’ of North Korea — something that Mr. Kim has shown no willingness to accept in the past, and few believe he will accede to in the future.”

Such denuclearization would involve “the actual dismantlement of weapons, the removal of stockpiled uranium and plutonium bomb fuel from the country and a verification program that will be one of the most complex in history, given the vastness of North Korea’s mountains.” Furthermore, Trump has suggested that the North Koreans will gain nothing in return for this one-sided destruction of their defenses, until the process is all-but-complete; as one Trump official told the Wall Street Journal, “When the president says that he will not make the mistakes of the past, that means the U.S. will not be making substantial concessions, such as lifting sanctions, until North Korea has substantially dismantled its nuclear programs”.

In other words - give up your leverage first; then we’ll see. What Trump appears to seek is nothing less than a completely disarmed Korea that will pave the way for the “Libya solution” his people have openly suggested is the goal.

Obviously, North Korea will not go for that. The whole point of their nuclear program has been to ensure that their country avoids the fate of Iraq or Libya; which is why the intelligence community is generally united in their view that it will never be given up. According to Ryan Hass of the Brookings Institution, “virtually no North Korea analyst inside or outside of the US government expect Kim Jong-un to relinquish his nuclear weapons”, quoting former CIA analyst Jung Pak that Kim views nuclear weapons as both “vital to the security of his regime and his legitimacy as leader of North Korea”.

Meanwhile, the New York Times comments: “ask the people who have seen past peace initiatives whether they think this one will work out any differently, and they have serious doubts that Mr. Kim will give up his nuclear program for any price”, whilst for Stratfor, the complete denuclearization of North Korea is “a lofty goal that will be nearly impossible to ensure”.

So what is Trump doing? Surely he knows what he is proposing would be completely unacceptable to any North Korean leader, let alone Kim Jong-un?

But maybe this is the point. What if Trump, far from wanting to reach a deal, is actually deliberately pushing a proposal which is supposed to be rejected? After all, so long as he ensures his demands are unacceptable, he can offer the moon in return: recognition, technology, aid, lifting of sanctions, hell - why not? - even the removal of US troops from South Korea. Having such an offer rejected would allow Trump much more readily to be able to paint North Korea as the aggressor - unwilling to compromise, insincere in its desire for peace, etc, etc.

This is, after all, a time-honored tactic.

In February 1999, in the French town of Rambouillet, a series of meetings were convened between representatives of Kosovo’s multiethnic population and the US with the ostensible aim of resolving the conflict between Kosovan separatists and the Yugoslav government. For its part, the Yugoslavs had proposed a ceasefire, peace talks, the return of displaced citizens, and the establishment of a devolved assembly for the province, with a wide degree of autonomy.

This would clearly have gone a long way to addressing the conflict; but that very fact made it completely unacceptable to the US, desperate to justify their coming onslaught against Yugoslavia. Instead, they needed a ‘peace deal’ that would be rejected by the Yugoslavs, who could then be painted as the aggressors, paving the way for war. To this end, the ‘Rambouillet Peace Agreement’ was formulated.  The document demanded complete de facto independence for Kosovo, whilst still allowing the province to influence the rest of Yugoslavia by continuing to send representatives to its federal institutions. Yet, just in case even this one-sided arrangement was accepted by the Yugoslavs, in chapter seven of the agreement, the US inserted a crucial clause: that NATO “personnel shall enjoy . . . with their vehicles, vessels, aircraft and equipment, free and unrestricted passage and unimpeded access throughout the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, including associated airspace and territorial waters”, whilst at the same time being "immune from all legal process, whether civil, administrative or criminal, [and] under all circumstances and at all times, immune from [all laws] governing any criminal or disciplinary offences which may be committed by Nato personnel in the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia”.

In other words, Yugoslavia would have to not only submit to a full-scale occupation by NATO, but also give the occupiers the absolute and unaccountable right to abuse the population at will. Such a demand could never have been accepted by any sovereign country. But that, of course, was the point: this was an agreement penned precisely to be rejected, in order to paint the Serbs as the unreasoning aggressors. It worked perfectly: the ‘agreement’ was duly rejected, and the planned blitzkrieg of Yugoslavia followed, with 78 days of unrelenting aerial bombardment.

The same ruse was repeated the following year by US President Bill Clinton. At Palestinian-Israeli peace talks at Camp David, he made a proposal for a ‘final settlement’ of the conflict which allowed Israel to keep 80 percent of their illegal settlements along with sovereignty over a patchwork of roads linking them together and thereby cutting the West Bank into unviable bantustans - with refugees permanently denied the right to return to their homes in Israel. As former US president Jimmy Carter commented, “There was no possibility that any Palestinian leader could accept such terms and survive - but official statements from Washington and Jerusalem were successful in placing the entire onus for failure on Yasir Arafat”.

Indeed, through the distortions of Western media, a narrative emerged that Israeli President Ehud Barak himself had made this so-called ‘generous offer’, the spurning of which demonstrated the Palestinians hatred for peace and unwillingness to settle for anything less than driving the Jews into the sea. In fact, the Israeli side themselves had never accepted Clinton’s proposal, and had issued twenty pages of concerns they had with it. On the last of the Clinton-chaired meetings - the one from which Barak’s supposed offer emerged, held in Taba in 2001 - Barak later said that “it was plain to me that there was no chance of reaching a settlement… Therefore I said there would be no negotiations and there would be no delegation and there would be no official discussions and no documentation”. Nevertheless, the official narrative, to this day, recalls that the Palestinians rejected the Israelis’ ‘generous offer’ - and therefore only have themselves to blame for their continued slaughter.

The EU set up Yanukovych in the same way. In 2008, the EU and Ukraine agreed to negotiate what was supposed to be a trade agreement. Five years in the making, the EU Association Agreement was finally unveiled in 2013. But by then, the EU had included a clause on defense cooperation with the EU, effectively turning the country into an unofficial NATO member. Such a measure was guaranteed - and designed - to tear apart a country like Ukraine, a multiethnic polity with deep and historic ties to both Russia and Europe, whose unity rested on strict adherence to a policy of neutrality in terms of East-West rivalries. Furthermore, Yanokovych had an explicit democratic mandate for such neutrality, having been elected on precisely this basis. The Association agreement was duly rejected, as it was presumably intended to be - setting the stage for the Western-backed ‘Maidan coup’ and civil war which followed and continues to this day.

So Western governments certainly have form in crafting proposals designed to be rejected, in order to justify escalation. And the US has every reason for doing so with North Korea today.

Trump’s North Korea policy throughout last year was one of warmongering rhetoric and the ratcheting up of tensions. Whilst this was to some extent successful in bullying China and others into agreeing to harsher sanctions, this ‘consensus’ began to fall apart as Trump’s team stepped up their war talk at the end of the year, with defense secretary Mattis warning of “storm clouds...gathering” and national security advisor McMaster claiming that the odds of war were “increasing every day”.

This ramping up of tension did not go down well in either Korea, and rapid moves to de-escalate were undertaken, with North Korean involvement in the winter Olympics a symbolic, but important, signifier of greater North-South cooperation to come. Then, in his New Year address, Kim Jong-un began a diplomatic charm offensive with the South which gained rapid results. A summit was set up between the leaders of the two Koreas, which eventually took place in April when Kim Jong-un became the first North Korean leader to cross the border into the South since the Korean war. The summit agreed to pursue denuclearization of the peninsula and to secure a formal Peace Treaty, with an outline peace arrangement to be reached by the end of the year.

This emerging detente between the two Koreas has hugely undermined Trump’s warmongering. In an article entitled “As Two Koreas Talk Peace, Trump’s Bargaining Chips Slip Away”, Mark Landler pointed out that “the talk of peace is likely to weaken the two levers that Mr. Trump used to pressure Mr. Kim… A resumption of regular diplomatic exchanges between the two Koreas, analysts said, will inevitably erode the crippling economic sanctions against the North, while Mr. Trump will find it hard to threaten military action against a country that is extending an olive branch”. Landler went on to quote Jeffrey A. Bader, a former Asia advisor to Barack Obama, that, following the North-South rapprochement, said “It becomes awfully hard for Trump to return to the locked-and-loaded, ‘fire and fury’ phase of the relationship”. Worse, “Inside the White House, some worry that Mr. Kim will use promises of peace to peel South Korea away from the United States and blunt efforts to force him to give up his nuclear weapons”.

Trump, therefore, urgently needs to snuff out this rapprochement if he is to return to the bellicosity that marked his Korea policy hitherto. As Landler wrote, “Mr Kim...made a bold bet on diplomacy” - and Trump needs to ensure that it fails. The best way of doing so is by putting himself at the head of it.

If Trump is indeed planning to use the Rambouillet ruse to reignite tensions against the North, it is important that he spin his designed-to-be-rejected offer as somehow incredibly generous. And in recent weeks there have indeed been moves in that direction.

First of all, Trump has appeared to accept that denuclearization might not need to happen in one fell swoop, telling reporters that whilst “It would certainly be better if it were all in one…. I don’t think I want to totally commit myself.” Next, Trump went out of his way to guarantee Mr. Kim’s safety. “He will be safe. He will be happy. His country will be rich,” the president said. You can already imagine Trump’s words when his ‘generous offer’ gets rejected: “we offered him security. We offered him prosperity. We offered him phased elimination. And he rejected all of it”.

Fascinatingly, it turns out that Trump’s national security advisor John Bolton has actually already suggested precisely the Rambouillet ruse. According to the New York Times, “Two weeks before he was recruited as national security adviser, [Bolton] said a meeting between Mr. Trump and Mr. Kim was useful only because it would inevitably fail, and then the United States could move swiftly on to the next phase — presumably a military confrontation… ‘It could be a long and unproductive meeting, or it could be a short and unproductive meeting," he said on Fox News.

Even among officials who worry about war, there is sympathy for his view that “failing quickly” would be valuable. Meanwhile, Stratfor’s analysis of the likely prospects for the forthcoming summit concluded that “it may also reinforce the idea that if the two leaders can’t negotiate a way out of the conflict, then perhaps a diplomatic solution isn’t possible and talk of a military solution to the United States’ North Korea problem could return...Without some change, we’ll probably find ourselves back on the path to containment, if not on a course toward military action to end the North Korean nuclear and missile program once and for all”.

Whether military action is realistically possible against North Korea, however, remains a serious question. Most analysts agree that the fallout from any retaliation - both against the 28,000 US soldiers stationed in South Korea, and against US allies in Seoul and Kyoto - would be unacceptably high. James Stavridis, former NATO Supreme Allied Commander, is typical in his view that there are “no military options which would result in fewer than several hundred thousand casualties and perhaps as many as 2m to 3m”.

So if war is not on the cards, to what end would Trump seek the rejection of his offer?

One answer has already been suggested - to scupper the emerging North-South co-operation that threatens to erode US influence on the peninsula. Summit failure would give Trump a perceived ‘moral right’ to bully the South into ending its outreach and returning to the US position of isolating the North.

But another reason could lie in Trump’s trade war with China, the opening shots of which have only just been fired. Any supposed North Korean intransigence could provide Trump with cover for initiating secondary sanctions against North Korea’s supposed ‘allies’. Congressional law already allows Trump to initiate secondary sanctions against anyone trading with the victim of primary sanctions, but with the current atmosphere of rapprochement, it is difficult for Trump to justify using these against China at present.

A North Korean ‘walk-out’ would provide the perfect excuse for stepping up economic warfare against China under the guise of sanctioning Korea. Indeed, Trump has already been setting up China as a potential scapegoat for any failure to reach a deal, claiming that Kim’s position had hardened following his meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping. “There was a different attitude by the North Korean folks after that meeting,” Trump told reporters recently, “I can’t say that I’m happy about it.”

The entire trajectory of Trump is, after all, not one of conciliation, but of escalation - on all fronts. Escalation against immigrants, against the working class, against Iran, against China, and even against his supposed chums in Moscow. There is absolutely no reason to think that North Korea is some kind of magical exception to this golden rule.

Setting up a deal guaranteed to be rejected, but which can be spun as incredibly generous, is, of course, no mean feat. This is especially true given that Kim has now repeatedly stated that he is willing to give up his nuclear weapons. Indeed, this possibility cannot be entirely ruled out: after all, North Korea’s conventional capacity alone - not to mention its mutual defense treaty with China - arguably provides as much deterrence as is necessary to prevent an invasion, as those casualty figures quoted above bear out. In this case, the devil will be in the detail - and more specifically in the timings of the granting of concessions. Trump is likely, in my view, to offer what appear to be very generous concessions, but make them contingent on unacceptably obtrusive verification measures or unachievable levels of ‘proof’ before any of them kick in. Perhaps they will just copy and paste chapter seven of the Rambouillet Agreement in its entirety. A secret clause demanding NATO occupation of all of North Korea would probably do the trick.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on June 13, 2018, 12:05:51 AM
So this is the outcome of all that statecraft, preliminary meetings and that talk - 4 sentences, 2 of which are just frippery, and #3 only commits North Korea to denuclearise.  Why would he agree to that, without anything in return from the US? 

Not in the summit document was Trump's announcement of canceling of "war games" (later clarified as not meaning "drills"), and Kim's announcement of the destruction of a "major missile engine testing site".

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/12/full-text-trump-kim-korea-summit-637541 (https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/12/full-text-trump-kim-korea-summit-637541)
Full text: The statement signed by Trump and Kim
POLITICO STAFF
06/12/2018

Here is the text, as seen in the photographs of the signed documents:


Joint Statement of President Donald J. Trump of the United States of America and Chairman Kim Jong Un of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea at the Singapore Summit

President Donald J. Trump of the United States of America and Chairman Kim Jong Un of the State Affairs Commission of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (DPRK) held a first, historic summit in Singapore on June 12, 2018.

President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong Un conducted a comprehensive, in-depth, and sincere exchange of opinions on the issues related to the establishment of new U.S.-DPRK relations and the building of a lasting and robust peace regime on the Korean Peninsula. President Trump committed to provide security guarantees to the DPRK and Chairman Kim Jong Un reaffirmed his firm and unwavering commitment to complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.

Convinced that the establishment of new U.S.-DPRK relations will contribute to the peace and prosperity of the Korean Peninsula and of the world, and recognizing that mutual confidence building can promote the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong Un state the following.


1. The United States and the DPRK commit to establish new U.S.-DPRK relations in accordance with the desire of the peoples of the two countries for peace and prosperity.

2. The United States and the DPRK will join their efforts to build a lasting and stable peace regime on the Korean Peninsula.

3. Reaffirming the April 27, 2018 Panmunjom Declaration, the DPRK commits to work toward complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.

4. The United States and the DPRK commit to recovering POW/MIA remains, including the immediate repatriation of those already identified.

Having acknowledged that the U.S-DPRK summit — the first in history — was an epochal event of great significance in overcoming decades of tensions and hostilities between the two countries and for the opening up of a new future, President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong Un commit to implement the stipulations in this joint statement fully and expeditiously. The United States and the DPRK commit to hold follow-on negotiations, led by the U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, and a relevant high-level DPRK official, at the earliest possible date, to implement the outcomes of the U.S.-DPRK summit.

President Donald J. Trump of the United States and Chairman Kim Jong Un of the State Affairs Commission of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea have committed to cooperate for the development of new U.S.-DPRK relations and for the promotion of peace, prosperity, and security of the Korean Peninsula and of the world.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on June 13, 2018, 12:14:28 AM
China's take on it is quite upbeat.

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1106696.shtml (http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1106696.shtml)
End of ‘war games’ will be a big step forward for peninsula
2018/6/12

US President Donald Trump held a press conference after his meeting with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un Tuesday afternoon, in which more information was revealed. Trump expressed his satisfaction with the results of the summit, saying Kim would "be remembered as the leader who ushered in a glorious new era of security and prosperity for his people." He also added that he was confident North Korea would implement the agreement reached by the two sides and disclosed he and Kim have invited each other to visit their own country.

Trump said Kim assured destruction of a "major missile engine testing site" not included in the document signed during their summit. He vowed to "stop the war games," which was widely interpreted as a hint to stop the joint military exercises with South Korea, one of the major demands by Pyongyang. He also said he hoped to bring US soldiers stationed in South Korea back home at some point.

If the US stops joint military exercises with South Korea, it will be a big step forward on the Korean Peninsula. If achieved, China's "suspension for suspension" proposal, which calls for North Korea to suspend its nuclear and missile activities in exchange for the suspension of US-South Korea military exercises, would come to reality. A new leaf will be turned over.

With a cooling down of military activities, less US military participation, and possibly an eventual US troop withdrawal, the peninsula will completely walk out of the shadow of the Cold War. If political process moves toward this direction on the peninsula, the whole region will benefit. 

These will be natural developments once the North Korea nuclear issue is completely resolved. Since the "North Korea threat" no longer exists, there will be no grounds for the US and South Korea to continue large-scale military drills and for Washington to maintain its military presence in South Korea.   

Public opinion in the US and South Korea were doubtful over whether North Korea would actively implement any agreement reached. But the main obstacle to the peace process of the peninsula in the future may come from Washington and Seoul, or even Tokyo. Right after the summit concluded, Western media criticized that Trump received nothing from this meeting. There are also voices claiming that the cancelation of US-South Korea joint military drills is a victory for China and North Korea.

Public opinion in the US has long harbored hostility against Pyongyang. Lawmakers and opinion leaders can find endless excuses to oppose the Trump administration interacting with North Korea. These forces will bridle Trump and Kim in pushing forward their agreement.

Pro-Washington forces in South Korea see the US troops stationed in their country as a cornerstone of South Korea's security and would like to see joint military drills to continue. They may not wish to see the US cut its military presence in the peninsula.

Japan has particularly mixed feelings toward harmony on the Korean Peninsula. For Tokyo, hawkish US policy will add to allied Japan's weight and boost Japan's strategic value.

After dealing with North Korea for a few rounds, Trump's team has developed a more realistic mindset on the issue. But his domestic foes probably would rather mess everything up, prioritizing embarrassing Trump above protecting the long-term interests of the US.

Trump and Kim have an opportunity to create history. If Trump can realize complete denuclearization of the peninsula, and Kim can bring prosperity to North Korea, it will be great feat for both of them.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Eddie on June 13, 2018, 05:26:53 AM
At least Trump understands that to get something, you have to give something. An understanding that is generally lacking by the neoliberal permanent war party in DC.

I've got a dollar I'd bet that neither side honors the spirit or the letter of this very vague agreement. As someone pointed out, all this has been agreed to before, in previous administrations.

But Trump gets his Nobel and maybe an Oscar for "best fantasy short" for his NK Summit Movie Trailer. A Yuge propaganda victory for Trump and Kim.

Did anyone read the New Yorker article comparing Trump to Kaiser Wilhelm? There have been several journalists who have found the parallels interesting, but this one gets my vote for "best title".

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/what-happens-when-a-bad-tempered-distractible-doofus-runs-an-empire (https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/what-happens-when-a-bad-tempered-distractible-doofus-runs-an-empire)

Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Golden Oxen on June 13, 2018, 05:53:56 AM
At least Trump understands that to get something, you have to give something. An understanding that is generally lacking by the neoliberal permanent war party in DC.

I've got a dollar I'd bet that neither side honors the spirit or the letter of this very vague agreement. As someone pointed out, all this has been agreed to before, in previous administrations.

But Trump gets his Nobel and maybe an Oscar for "best fantasy short" for his NK Summit Movie Trailer. A Yuge propaganda victory for Trump and Kim.

Did anyone read the New Yorker article comparing Trump to Kaiser Wilhelm? There have been several journalists who have found the parallels interesting, but this one gets my vote for "best title".

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/what-happens-when-a-bad-tempered-distractible-doofus-runs-an-empire (https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/what-happens-when-a-bad-tempered-distractible-doofus-runs-an-empire)

Yes, President Trump is a doofus, and Robert De Nero is no doubt a genius. ::)

No, didn't read the article, I try to be selective in my reading. New Yorker is however my favorite source for short stories and cartoons. 

                                    (https://media.newyorker.com/cartoons/5b1b19f7e9fac9319101ca68/master/w_1200,c_limit/180618_a21975.jpg)

                                            "Okay, now walk forward casually"

                                          ;D :D :icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen: :roll2:
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Surly1 on June 13, 2018, 05:57:16 AM

Did anyone read the New Yorker article comparing Trump to Kaiser Wilhelm? There have been several journalists who have found the parallels interesting, but this one gets my vote for "best title".

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/what-happens-when-a-bad-tempered-distractible-doofus-runs-an-empire (https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/what-happens-when-a-bad-tempered-distractible-doofus-runs-an-empire)

Sure did! Excellent, and chilling.

News digest brought to you by the Doomstead Diner.

//

What Happens When a Bad-Tempered, Distractible Doofus Runs an Empire?

 

[url=http://www.newyorker.com]www.newyorker.com[/url] - One of the few things that Kaiser Wilhelm II, who ruled Germany from 1888 to 1918, had a talent for was causing outrage. A particular specialty was insulting other monarchs. He called the diminutive …

Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Eddie on June 13, 2018, 06:03:02 AM
@Surly

Sorry. I missed that you had posted it. I do usually check your feed.

@GO

Robert DiNiro is more like Trump than he is different. Maybe a nicer guy, fwiw. They both talk shit all the time.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Surly1 on June 13, 2018, 06:51:26 AM
@Surly

Sorry. I missed that you had posted it. I do usually check your feed.

@GO

Robert DiNiro is more like Trump than he is different. Maybe a nicer guy, fwiw. They both talk shit all the time.

No problemo. I remembered having read it, I just wasn't sure whether I had posted it up on the DDD.

The article rewards close reading, the title notwithstanding. The parallels are many, in terms of personal failings, and the global fallout therefrom.

(https://media.newyorker.com/photos/5b16d4e56d1241713eb77836/master/w_649,c_limit/Carter-Kaiser-Wilhelm-Trump.jpg)


Quote
One of the many things that Wilhelm was convinced he was brilliant at, despite all evidence to the contrary, was “personal diplomacy,” fixing foreign policy through one-on-one meetings with other European monarchs and statesmen. In fact, Wilhelm could do neither the personal nor the diplomacy, and these meetings rarely went well. The Kaiser viewed other people in instrumental terms, was a compulsive liar, and seemed to have a limited understanding of cause and effect.

Quote
Wilhelm was a compulsive speechmaker who constantly strayed off script. Even his staff couldn’t stop him, though it tried, distributing copies of speeches to the German press before he’d actually given them. Unfortunately, the Austrian press printed the speeches as they were delivered, and the gaffes and insults soon circulated around Europe.

Quote
The Kaiser reserved particular abuse for political parties that voted against his policies. “I regard every Social Democrat as an enemy of the Fatherland,” he said, and he denounced the German Socialist party as a “gang of traitors.” August Bebel, the Socialist party leader, said that every time the Kaiser opened his mouth, the party gained another hundred thousand votes.

Quote
Wilhelm’s patronage of the aggressive, nationalistic right left him surrounded by ministers who held a collective conviction that a European war was inevitable and even desirable. Alfred von Tirpitz, Germany’s Naval chief—who realized at his first meeting with the Kaiser that he did “not live in the real world”—consciously exploited Wilhelm’s envy and rage in order to extract the astronomical sums required to build a German Navy to rival Britain’s, a project that created an arms race and became an intractable block to peace negotiations.

A major difference is that Trump does not appear to have suffer a full-blown mental and emotional collapse as Wilhelm did on occasion. Although Trump has "retired to one of his palaces," there are no reports that he has wept and complained that he’d been victimized. He saves that for Twitter.

Businesses hate uncertainty; governments even more so. Diplomacy is completely antithetical to the kind of shoot-from-the-lip ad libbing (no homework and no reading) Trump prefers. Given what history tells us about the consequences of erratic leaders making gut-based decisions, and the outcomes, this article constitutes a warning flare.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Eddie on June 13, 2018, 08:13:22 AM
That didn't take long. Norway has already nominated Trump for his Nobel. Let me go on record now as saying I think Trump deserves his Nobel Prize every bit as much as Obama did.

Trump Nominated For Nobel Peace Price... By Norway

The summit in Singapore has made US President Donald Trump "a man of peace," according to two Norwegian parliamentary representatives (from the Frp party), and as NRK reports, they have nominated him for the most gifted award of all of them.

Representatives Christian Tybring-Gjedde (Frp) and Per-Willy Amundsen (Frp) believe it qualifies Trump for the Nobel Peace Prize.

"What's happening now is historical. A process is underway to ensure world peace in the future. It's a fragile process, but we must of course do what we can to help this process bring good results. I think that we can do by sending a clear signal by giving Trump the peace prize."

And amid all the left's dismay at just what was agreed, the two Norwegian parliamentarians, however, do not believe that a peace-winning nomination is too early.

"It's not a binding agreement, but it's an initiative to visit both ways, it's an initiative to end the disaster going on and to put a damper on the military exercises the United States has with South Korea. As such, this is a push to Donald Trump to continue what he has already started," says Tybring-Gjedde.

"It would not be the first time giving the peace prize to anyone involved in a process. It has happened before. Obviously, we will follow the process carefully, but at least you have arrived, I think is worth a peace prize, "says Amundsen.

The Norwegian nomination follows a group of 18 GOP lawmakers led by Rep. Luke Messer of Indiana, who signed a letter formally nominating President Trump for the 2019 Nobel Peace Prize in May.

“We can think of no one more deserving of the Committee’s recognition in 2019 than President Trump for his tireless work to bring peace to our world.”

Mission Accomplished?


The Nobel Committee received peace prize nominations at Donald Trump in both 2016, 2017 and 2018. However, this year the alarm went off, and the Nobel Institute linked the police because they thought they had received a fake nomination on Trump .

Trump's nomination this year will be for the 2019 Nobel.

"In this situation, Trump is obviously a man of peace. He tries to get something that others have not gotten, and when he makes it, he deserves fame," says Tybring-Gjedde.

Amundsen adds that he thinks the summit and the agreement between Trump and Kim, go right into Nobel's testament.

"This goes straight into the core of the Nobel testament. It's about disarmament and about creating peace. These are the results that count."

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-06-13/trump-nominated-nobel-peace-price-norway (https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-06-13/trump-nominated-nobel-peace-price-norway)

The Nobel is a total joke these days, if it ever was anything else. Not only did Alfred Nobel contribute to the deaths of many thousands (perhaps millions) of people, he killed his own brother with his invention. No amount of philanthropy will ever wash away all the blood on his hands.

But if he hadn't invented dynamite, I'm sure somebody else would have.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Golden Oxen on June 13, 2018, 08:42:38 AM
Yes, Nobel Peace prize has become a hideous joke. Obama getting one and Trump being even considered for one is simply disgraceful. Dennis Rodman might as well be next.

And Julian Assange and Chelsea Manning got the fucking slammer for their reward. How fucked up is that?

The world's gone friggin insane.  :exp-angry: :exp-angry:

                       
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Surly1 on June 13, 2018, 09:22:40 AM
Yes, Nobel Peace prize has become a hideous joke. Obama getting one and Trump being even considered for one is simply disgraceful. Dennis Rodman might as well be next.

And Julian Assange and Chelsea Manning got the fucking slammer for their reward. How fucked up is that?

The world's gone friggin insane.  :exp-angry: :exp-angry:
                   

Don't forget Reality Winner.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: azozeo on June 13, 2018, 02:16:11 PM
This whole NK bread circus is like part 4 of the world is saved again super hero BS.

This is as far back as I personally can remember.

1) JFK / Khrushchev, that wasn't about nukes, it was about anti-gravity propulsion. Basically a left over from Rosenberg executions.

2) Nixon / Mao Zedong - it saved the world from high priced crap for worthless crap from W/M.

3) R.R. / Gorby, it did open trade routes to the west, for the elites.

4) U.S. Inc. Cabbage Patch Kid meets The Asian Cabbage Patch Kid.

So whats changed other than the pile of debris & garbage.

 
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: azozeo on June 13, 2018, 02:54:25 PM
https://www.exopolitics.org/us-north-korea-peace-talks-made-possible-by-usaf-secret-space-program/ (https://www.exopolitics.org/us-north-korea-peace-talks-made-possible-by-usaf-secret-space-program/)



US North Korea Peace Talks Made Possible by USAF Secret Space Program

Written by Dr Michael Salla on June 11, 2018. Posted in Featured, Space Programs, world politics

On June 12 President Donald Trump meets with North Korea’s supreme leader, Kim Jong-Un in Singapore to resolve the confrontation over the latter’s nuclear weapons program. The on-off-on again meeting has been a surprise to many believing that the bellicose language used by both leaders throughout 2017 was a sure sign that a nuclear confrontation was inevitable.

During Kim’s January 1, New Year’s Day address, he had announced that North Korea’s nuclear weapons program was completed with the successful testing of a hydrogen bomb and an intercontinental ballistic missile, the Hwasong 15. North Korea was now capable of not only launching nuclear armed ICBM missiles into U.S. territories such as Guam and Hawaii, but was also capable of hitting the U.S. mainland. 

On January 17, South Korea announced that a diplomatic breakthrough had been reached with North Korea. The two Koreas would march together at the upcoming February 9-25 Winter Olympics, and field a joint ice hockey team.

This was followed a few weeks after the end of the Olympics, by Kim Jong-Un’s March 6 offer to put his nuclear weapons program on hold and start candid talks with the U.S. Trump immediately accepted Kim’s offer, which had been mediated behind the scenes by senior South Korean officials.

Exactly why North Korea decided to reverse its bellicose policies, improve relations with South Korea, and enter into denuclearization talks after completing its nuclear weapons program has left many media sources puzzled.

One explanation is that the talks are solely due to warming ties between North and South Korea. Another is that North Korea is desperate for cash after years of punishing economic sanctions that have been very effective.

Some believe that Kim has launched the meeting merely to gain time and does not intend to follow through on any agreements reached at the talk. Yet another explanation is that Trump is setting Kim up for failure in order to justify future military actions against North Korea, which will scapegoated as the villain.

What multiple media sources have not considered is whistleblower testimonies revealing a deeper dynamic at play at the U.S. North Korea summit.

On October 7, 2017 Trump issued two tweets where he gave a stark warning about what his administration was planning for North Korea:

click on link for remainder of article.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on June 13, 2018, 03:41:45 PM
Quote
https://www.exopolitics.org/us-north-korea-peace-talks-made-possible-by-usaf-secret-space-program/

Essentially, once Kim realized that he had been betrayed by the Deep State/CIA faction that had secretly helped him develop a ballistic nuclear weapons program, he decided to abandon his nuclear weapons program and bellicose rhetoric against President Trump.

So another evidence-free nut-case site.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: azozeo on June 13, 2018, 03:59:56 PM
Quote
https://www.exopolitics.org/us-north-korea-peace-talks-made-possible-by-usaf-secret-space-program/

Essentially, once Kim realized that he had been betrayed by the Deep State/CIA faction that had secretly helped him develop a ballistic nuclear weapons program, he decided to abandon his nuclear weapons program and bellicose rhetoric against President Trump.

So another evidence-free nut-case site.

Are you, half in the bag all the fucking time ?
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on June 13, 2018, 04:15:47 PM
Quote
AZ: Are you, half in the bag all the fucking time ?

No, at least I don't think I am "half in the bag", whatever that means, but my razor-sharp mind can recognise BS when I see it.  Who in their right mind did you think was going to be taken in by that stupid crap?  It's a waste of everybody's time and bandwidth.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: azozeo on June 13, 2018, 04:22:51 PM
Quote
AZ: Are you, half in the bag all the fucking time ?

No, at least I don't think I am "half in the bag", whatever that means, but my razor-sharp mind can recognise BS when I see it.  Who in their right mind did you think was going to be taken in by that stupid crap?  It's a waste of everybody's time and bandwidth.

Oh, almighty bandwidth god of cyber-ness please don't banish me to the outer cosmos.

Dude....
It's my reality, & I'll share it if I feel like it.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on June 13, 2018, 08:59:28 PM
Even in this apparently balanced report, they can't help but slip in these propaganda pieces.
Kim didn't get all the agreements down in writing, so when he objects, Trump will just deny it.

https://news.sky.com/story/confusion-as-north-korea-says-us-will-lift-sanctions-11403122
Confusion as North Korea says US will lift sanctions
By Sharon Marris
14 June 2018

North Korea's state media has reported that Donald Trump has "expressed his intention" to lift crippling sanctions against the country - despite the US president saying that they will remain until "nukes are no longer a factor".

Donald Trump met Kim Jong Un for a historic summit at a luxurious Singapore hotel on Tuesday, with both leaders signing a deal regarding the "complete denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula".

But it had always been Mr Kim's goal to rid his country of US sanctions and, according to the state-run KCNA news agency, that is exactly what he achieved.

Following the "meeting of the century", KCNA said Mr Trump had agreed to lift sanctions as relations improve, as well as halt US-South Korea military exercises and offer security guarantees.

There was no US response to the report, but sanctions had not been mentioned in the statement signed by the two leaders at the conclusion of the summit.

At a news conference afterwards, Mr Trump had said he would like sanctions to be lifted but that this would not happen immediately.

The discrepancy will go some way to justifying fears expressed before the summit about the risks of having the two leaders sit down for their first meeting with no aides or advisers to record what was said.

Today's six-page edition of the North Korean newspaper Rodong Sinmun has been dominated by photos of the two leaders shaking hands, strolling around the hotel together and enjoying the sort of lunch that many North Koreans could only dream of.

In the early hours of Wednesday morning, Mr Trump proclaimed that the world had "taken a big step back from potential nuclear catastrophe".

He tweeted: "No more rocket launches, nuclear testing or research!

"The hostages are back home with their families.

"Thank you to Chairman Kim, our day together was historic!"

Meanwhile, North Korea's neighbours have expressed concern over Mr Trump's promise to stop joint military exercises with South Korea - drills which have long angered Pyongyang.

KCNA reported that Mr Kim had said it was "urgent" for North Korea and the US to halt "irritating and hostile military actions against each other".

The news agency's report quoted Mr Kim as saying that the two countries should commit to avoid antagonising each other and take legal, institutional steps to guarantee this.

The report added that Mr Trump said he "understood" and promised to stop the exercises while the two sides were talking.

Mr Trump himself described the exercises as expensive and "very provocative". South Korea and Japan both depend heavily on the US presence in their countries as a deterrent against North Korea.

Japan's defence minister Itsunori Onodera said the joint exercises were "vital" for security, adding: "We would like to seek an understanding of this between Japan, the US and South Korea."

South Korea's presidential Blue House said it needed "to find out the precise meaning or intentions" of Mr Trump's statement.

With no concrete commitments for denuclearisation by North Korea and no reference to the country's terrible human rights record, many critics say the summit was a missed opportunity for the US leader.

Former US vice president Joe Biden said Mr Trump had given North Korea multiple "wins up front without getting anything in return".

Among the US concessions was attending the summit at all, giving Mr Kim the legitimacy he craves.

Donald Trump and Kim Jong Un struck an optimistic tone at the start of the summit

Mr Biden accused Mr Trump of taking "an inexcusable and irresponsible approach" by not being fully prepared for the meeting.

Moon Seong-mook, a former South Korean military official and current head of the Unification Strategy Centre in Seoul, said the summit had been a "win" for Mr Kim.

He added: "I am concerned that the summit between Trump and Kim will prove to be a setback in the global efforts to denuclearise North Korea and also introduce instability in the alliance between Seoul and Washington."
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on June 15, 2018, 08:59:54 PM
Pepe suggests that “Reaffirming the April 27, 2018, Panmunjom Declaration, ..." locks the US into "complete denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula".  I'm not so sure.  It would have been just as easy to put in exactly what was meant - that was what everybody expected all along, but it was left out and only added in by Trump's media announcement straight after the meeting.  Now we have to wait until this becomes a problem before the WW3 clock starts ticking again.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-06-14/pepe-escobar-key-word-trump-kim-show (https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-06-14/pepe-escobar-key-word-trump-kim-show)
This Is The Key Word In The Trump-Kim Show
Pepe Escobar
06/15/2018

By reaffirming the Panmunjom Declaration, the US President has committed to bringing its military back from South Korea and thus a complete denuclearization of the South as well as the North...

The Trump-Kim geopolitical reality-TV show – surreal for some – offered unparalleled entries to the annals of international diplomacy. It will be tough to upstage the US President pulling an iPad and showing Kim Jong-un the cheesy trailer of a straight-to-video 1980s B-grade action movie – complete with a Sylvester Stallone cameo – casting the two leaders as heroes destined to save the world’s 7 billion people.

Away from the TV, the former “Rocket Man”, now respectfully recast in Trump terminology as “Chairman Kim”, did strike a formidable coup by completely erasing the dreaded acronym CVID – or “complete, verifiable, irreversible denuclearization” – from the final text of the Singapore joint statement.

Throughout the pre-summit negotiations, the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (DPRK) had always stressed an “action-for-action” strategy leading to denuclearization, as in Pyongyang being compensated every step of the way instead of waiting until after complete denuclearization – a process that could last over a decade – to be eligible for economic benefits.

The Singapore joint statement enshrines exactly what the Russia-China strategic partnership – formalized in the recent Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) summit – was suggesting from the beginning: a double freeze.

The DPRK holds off on any new nuclear and missile tests while the US and South Korea stop the “war games” (Trump’s terminology).

This logical sequence of the Sino-Russian roadmap is based on what South Korean President Moon Jae-in agreed with Kim Jong-un at the inter-Korean summit last April. And that ties in with what North Korea, South Korea and Russia had already discussed at the Far East summit in Vladivostok last September, as Asia Times reported; economic integration between Russia and the two Koreas, including the crucial connectivity of a future Trans-Korean railway with the Trans-Siberian.

Once again, this is all about Eurasia integration; increased trade between North Korea and Northeast China, concerning mostly Liaoning, Jilin and Heilongjiang provinces; and total, physical connectivity of both Koreas to the Eurasian heartland.

That’s yet another instance of the New Silk Roads, or Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) meeting the Eurasia Economic Union (EAEU). And not by accident South Korea wants to connect deeper with both BRI and the EAEU.
When in doubt, re-read Panmunjom

The Singapore joint statement is not a deal; it’s a statement.

The absolutely key item is number 3: “Reaffirming the April 27, 2018, Panmunjom Declaration, the DPRK commits to work toward the complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.”

This means that the US and North Korea will work towards denuclearization not only in what concerns the DPRK but the whole Korean Peninsula.

Much more than “…the DPRK commits to work toward the complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula”, the keywords are in fact    “reaffirming the April 27, 2018, Panmunjom Declaration…” 

Even before Singapore, everyone knew the DPRK would not “de-nuke” (Trump terminology) for nothing, especially when promised just some vague US “guarantees”.

Predictably, both US neocon and humanitarian imperialist factions are unanimous in their fury, blasting the absence of “meat” in the joint statement. In fact there’s plenty of meat. Singapore reaffirms the Panmunjom Declaration, which is a deal between North Korea and South Korea.

By signing the Singapore joint statement, Washington has been put on notice of the Panmunjom Declaration. In law, when you take notice of a fact, you can’t ignore it later. The DPRK’s commitment to denuclearize in the Singapore statement is a reaffirmation of its commitment to denuclearize in the Panmunjom Declaration, with all of the conditions attached to it. And Trump acknowledged that by signing the Singapore statement.

The Panmunjom Declaration stresses that:

    “South and North Korea confirmed the common goal of realizing, through complete denuclearization, a nuclear-free Korean Peninsula. South and North Korea shared the view that the measures being initiated by North Korea are very meaningful and crucial for the denuclearization of the Korean peninsula and agreed to carry out their respective roles and responsibilities in this regard. South and North Korea agreed to actively seek the support and cooperation of the international community for the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.”

That’s the commitment. “International community”, as everyone knows, is code for the US as The Great Decider. If Washington does not bring back its military from South Korea, there will be no denuclearization. Essentially, that’s the deal discussed between Kim and President Xi Jinping in their two crucial, pre-Singapore meetings. Get the US out of the peninsula, and we have your back.

So all focus should be on “reaffirming”, the key word in the Singapore joint statement.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on June 19, 2018, 08:26:38 PM
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-06-19/kim-makes-third-trip-beijing-year-meeting-president-xi (https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-06-19/kim-makes-third-trip-beijing-year-meeting-president-xi)
Kim Makes Third Trip To Beijing This Year For Meeting With President Xi
Tyler Durden
06/19/2018

(https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/inline-images/2018.06.19xi.JPG?itok=hA_HVX72)

In the wake of what US (and international) media celebrated as a diplomatic victory for North Korean leader Kim Jong Un during last week's US-North Korea summit in Singapore, Kim on Tuesday traveled to Beijing for a two-day visit, where he filled Chinese President Xi Jinping in on the details of his discussion with President Trump, according to NBC News. Kim's visit comes a week after Secretary of State Mike Pompeo met with senior Chinese officials. According to initial reports, Chinese President Xi Jinping praised Kim for making headway with the US. According to Bloomberg, Chinese state television reported that Xi promised Kim that China would keep supporting North Korea, and Kim promised Xi that the North "would upgrade bilateral ties with China to a new level."

Beijing

Xi added that he hopes the North and the US will work toward peace on the Korean peninsula, and applauded the US's decision to halt joint military exercises with South Korea. Such effusive praise from China's leader is only the latest sign that Kim's benefactor has perhaps been the driving force behind Kim's bid for peace.

Here's NBC News:

    Chinese President Xi Jinping "is exerting a lot of influence from behind the scenes," said Bonnie Glaser, senior adviser for Asia at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington. Glaser said it was predictable Xi would want to be briefed by Kim directly about the North Korean leader's talks with Trump.

    "I expect they will talk about the path going forward and where priorities should lie," Glaser said. Those priorities, from China's perspective, would be to ensure that Beijing is included in any in peace treaty talks and for creating an environment on the Korean Peninsula that will make it unnecessary for U.S. troops to remain.

This is Kim's third trip to China this year. He made his first foreign trip as head of state in March, when he traveled by train to meet with Xi in Beijing. China is North Korea's largest economic ally and is responsible for 90% of trade with the isolated state. The suspension of US military exercises has been a policy goal pursued by Beijing and Pyongyang for years - and Xi is undoubtedly pleased at Kim having won such an important concession. But there was something else unusual about this summit that hinted at China's dominance. As Reuters pointed out, China made the unusual decision of announcing Kim's visit ahead of time, and stipulating that he would stay for two days. During previous visits, China would only confirm that Kim had visited with Xi after he had already left.

Still, Chinese leaders did take precautions to shield Kim's visit from public view by erecting a large screen outside the East Gate of the Great Hall of the People, where Chinese leaders typically meet with foreign leaders. As the diplomatic efforts between the North and US move forward, we doubt this will be Kim's last visit to Beijing. And if President Trump has his druthers, Kim might also soon be visiting another powerful capital.

But as we noted earlier, China could still scuttle the talks if it decides to retaliate diplomatically to the trade war with the US. Xi could order Kim to withdraw from negotiations, effectively undoing the progress that has been made.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on June 19, 2018, 11:35:44 PM
RT had a live streaming of the summit, but has been conspicuously quiet on the results.  Now this, quoting Russian "experts":

https://www.rt.com/news/430265-us-korea-double-freeze-experts/ (https://www.rt.com/news/430265-us-korea-double-freeze-experts/)
US & N. Korea following ‘double freeze’ plan proposed by Moscow & Beijing – experts to RT
20 Jun, 2018

The suspension of a joint military exercise by Washington and Seoul shortly after a number of concessions by Pyongyang amounts to adopting the ‘double freeze’ strategy, long advocated by Russia and China, experts told RT.

The “historic” four-point document that US President Donald Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong-un signed following their landmark meeting in Singapore is more of a declaration of intent than a roadmap for an actual resolution of their differences, experts told RT. But even such a vague promise of a less hostile future can bring benefits, at least in the short term.

“The agreement itself is just the first step” on the long road to improving the relations between Washington and Pyongyang, Konstantin Asmolov, a senior research fellow at the Korean Studies Center of the Russian Academy of Sciences’ Far East Institute, told RT.

Both sides took some concrete steps to de-escalate tensions that are not mentioned in the document. North Korea announced the suspension of nuclear and missile tests and made a show of shutting down a nuclear testing range for foreign reporters even before the summit. And on Monday, the US and South Korea announced that they “suspended all planning for the Ulchi Freedom Guardian,” an annual joint war game that was scheduled for August.

The exercises, which openly involved explicitly offensive operations and simulations of the invasion and assassination of North Korean officials, have always been a source of anger for Pyongyang and arguably a factor of tension on par with North Korea’s nuclear and missile tests, Asmolov noted.

The US move is “a welcome response to all of the unilateral concessions that North Korea had made earlier,” Gregory Elich, an associate at the Korea Policy Institute, told RT.

The exchange of concessions by the US and North Korea falls in line with the so-called “double freeze” suggestion, which was introduced by Moscow and Beijing as early as in September 2017, both experts said. It basically called for both parties to put on hold the actions that irritated the other side most, and it came amid a spree of hostile rhetoric coming from both Washington and Pyongyang. The double freeze was flatly rejected by the US at the time.

“Even though neither of the two actually speaks a word [about “double freeze”], both de facto follow this path,” Asmolov said.

Washington and Pyongyang have a long way to go to translate this initial diplomatic impulse into a more tangible agreement, of course, and Kim has good reasons to doubt Trump’s ability to deliver on a promise of a lasting solution, experts said. Trump himself withdrew from the Iran nuclear deal negotiated by his predecessor Barack Obama, and the next US president could backtrack on a Trump deal with North Korea.

“It is difficult to imagine what kind of security guarantee the United States can offer that could be trusted. A piece of paper is not going to do it. Nor, on its own, is the signing of a peace treaty formally ending the Korean War,” Elich said. “It may be that the Trump administration would be sincere in signing such a document. But the next US administration may very well have no compunction in abandoning it.”

A binding deal with North Korea would require a ratification by the US Congress, which is infamous for bringing partisanship and electioneering into all sorts of foreign policy issues.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on June 29, 2018, 12:31:35 AM
So there you have it - the US agreed to the Chinese-Russian "double freeze" that it had rejected before - a freeze of US-SK exercises (not in the text of the agreement) and Kim agreed to a freeze on missile and nuke testing, and denuclearisation (in the text) but no timeline for it, and apparently no great urgency for it.  Pompeo will return to Pyonyang "before too terribly long".

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/pompeo-says-won-t-put-timeline-on-north-korea-denuclearisation-10469730 (https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/pompeo-says-won-t-put-timeline-on-north-korea-denuclearisation-10469730)
Pompeo says won't put timeline on North Korea denuclearisation steps
Reuters
26 Jun 2018

US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has said he will not put a timeline on negotiations for North Korea's denuclearisation, contradicting a senior defence official who said Washington would soon present a timeline to North Korea with "specific asks."

Speaking to CNN in a telephone interview conducted on Sunday and reported by the network on Monday (Jun 25), Pompeo said he wanted to see continued progress towards North Korean denuclearisation and that the administration would regularly assess Pyongyang's seriousness about abandoning its nuclear programme.

"I am not going to put a timeline on it, whether that's two months, six months, we are committed to moving forward in an expeditious moment to see if we can achieve what both leaders set out to do," Pompeo told CNN, referring to a Jun 12 summit between Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un.

Pompeo, who has been charged with leading negotiations aimed at persuading North Korea to give up a nuclear weapons programme that threatens the United States, said he would "constantly reassess" whether enough progress was being made to continue talks.

"We hope that we will have an ongoing process of making progress," CNN quoted him as saying.

Pompeo's remarks contrasted sharply with comments from a senior defence official who briefed reporters ahead of a trip to Asia by US Secretary of Defence Jim Mattis and said Washington would soon present a timeline to North Korea with "specific asks."

Pompeo himself told reporters the day after the Singapore summit Washington hoped to achieve "major disarmament" by North Korea within Trump's current term, which ends on Jan 20, 2021.

And Trump said last week the "number-one statement" in the document he and Kim signed in Singapore was "we will immediately begin total denuclearisation of North Korea," although there was no such statement in the text.

In the joint statement, Kim "reaffirmed his firm and unwavering commitment to complete denuclearisation of the Korean Peninsula," but made no reference to a timeline, and going into the summit, Pyongyang repeatedly rejected unilateral nuclear disarmament.

Referring to Trump's decision to suspend joint military exercises with South Korea, which North Korea has long denounced as provocative, Pompeo told CNN this move would last "only so long as there is a good faith negotiation progress, productive results being achieved.

"If we can't do that, if it turns out that there is no capacity to deliver the outcome that both presidents said they wanted, yeah, we reassess."

Pompeo said a week ago he would likely travel back to North Korea "before too terribly long" to try to flesh out commitments made at the summit. The State Department has since said it has no travel plans to announce.

On Monday, Pentagon spokeswoman Dana White said defence officials would only speak to military-related aspects of negotiations on North Korea and that there was "no specific timeline" for the diplomatic process.

CNN said Pompeo suggested it was too soon to expect a detailed roadmap after 40 years of tensions but insisted that Kim had been "unequivocal" about his willingness to denuclearise.

"There are understandings that have been put together prior to the summit, some that took place when the president was in Singapore that I think put us on the right trajectory so that we can build out a framework for success," Pompeo said.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on June 29, 2018, 06:57:02 AM
This doesn't look much like they are getting ready to leave, but it should cut down on all the protests outside the gates.

https://www.rt.com/news/431266-skorea-pentagon-new-headquarters/ (https://www.rt.com/news/431266-skorea-pentagon-new-headquarters/)
Pentagon relocates US Army HQ from Seoul after 70+ years
29 Jun, 2018

The US Army's headquarters in South Korea, located in the capital Seoul since the end of WWII, has moved to a $11bn base in the rural south – away from mass protest rallies and the North’s guns.

The new United States Forces Korea (USFK) headquarters was opened on Friday at Camp Humphreys, a base near the town Pyeongtaek, about 70 kilometers (45 miles) south of Seoul, where the HQ was stationed for more than 70 years.

USFK commander General Vincent Brooks said the relocation was “an historic and exciting event” during the ribbon-cutting ceremony. Brooks, who also leads the UN forces stationed on the Korean Peninsula, added that it “represents the significant investment in the long-term presence of US Forces Korea.”

Transferring the army command center from the Yongsan Garrison in the nation’s capital was welcomed by South Korea’s President Moon Jae-in. The move “will ensure better conditions for USFK operations in a stable fashion,” he said in a statement. Painting a bright picture of the upcoming “Pyeongtaek era” in the US-South Korean partnership, Moon expressed hope that the two nations will upgrade their bond from a “military alliance” and a “comprehensive alliance” to a “great alliance.”

The agreement to move the HQ, responsible for 28,500 USFK troops, was reached back in 2004. The relocation itself was initially scheduled for 2008, but the deadline was missed and later moved several times due to construction problems at Camp Humphreys. Now the transfer process is to be finalized next year, with Camp Humphreys becoming the largest US base overseas, housing 40,000 people.

The US 2nd Infantry Division, currently stationed north of Seoul at Camp Red Cloud, is also expected to move to Camp Humphreys sometime in the future.

Moving the USFK HQ further away from the DMZ means that it will be harder to hit with North Korea’s artillery whose guns are aimed across the border and capable of striking Seoul. Pyongyang has thousands of artillery pieces deployed in the area and conducts large-scale ‘fire drills’.

The main command center in Seoul also served as the symbol of the US Army’s presence in the country and attracted protests. Last year’s tensions between Washington and Pyongyang sparked several protest rallies in the capital and other areas.

A wave of large protests against the plans to deploy THAAD anti-ballistic missile batteries in September led to clashes with the police.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on June 30, 2018, 08:06:46 PM
While the article is liberally couched with "we can't really tell what this is" clauses, it seems to suggest that enrichment work is on-going in NK.  There is currently no agreement on how this is to be stopped, so it isn't deception, but the US could play it that way if it wants to start WW3.

https://www.38north.org/2018/06/yongbyon062618/ (https://www.38north.org/2018/06/yongbyon062618/)
Infrastructure Improvements at North Korea’s Yongbyon Nuclear Research Facility
38 North   
June 26, 2018

A 38 North exclusive with analysis by Frank V. Pabian, Joseph S. Bermudez Jr. and Jack Liu.

Commercial satellite imagery from June 21 indicates that improvements to the infrastructure at North Korea’s Yongbyon Nuclear Scientific Research Center are continuing at a rapid pace. Modifications to the 5 MWe plutonium production reactor’s cooling system appear complete, but a less-than-normal cooling water discharge from the outfall pipe makes a determination of the reactor’s operational status difficult. The status of the Radiochemical Laboratory—used to separate plutonium from spent fuel rods—remains uncertain, although the associated Thermal Plant has likely continued operations, and a small non-industrial building of an unknown purpose has been newly erected near the cooling tower. Construction continues on support facilities throughout other operational areas of Yongbyon, especially at the Experimental Light Water Reactor (ELWR), where the new engineering office building appears externally complete and a small building similar to the one observed at the Radiochemical Laboratory has been erected.

Continued work at the Yongbyon facility should not be seen as having any relationship to North Korea’s pledge to denuclearize. The North’s nuclear cadre can be expected to proceed with business as usual until specific orders are issued from Pyongyang.

The 5 MWe Reactor

Modifications to North Korea’s 5 MWe reactor’s secondary cooling loop, which began in March, appear externally complete. A newly in-filled water channel (that includes a newly installed probable weir for controlling water flow) now leads to the pump house from the Kuryong River. (Figure 1) Determining the operational status of the reactor is particularly difficult at this time. Although a small water discharge is visible from the cooling water outfall pipe going into the river, that discharge is less than has been observed previously when the reactor was fully operational. It may simply be that this is all the water needed at this time to carry away the heat from the residual radioactivity in the reactor, if the reactor is currently shut down. Additionally, unlike last February, no visible steam is being vented from the generator building that would confirm that the reactor is operating, but we cannot rule out that this is simply due to the time of year and insufficient image resolution. (Figure 2)

(https://www.38north.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Fig1_Yongbyon-Upd-18-0626-1024x768.jpg)
Figure 1. Close-up of new cooling water pump house and in-filled water channel.
Pleaides © CNES 2018, Distribution Airbus DS. For media options, please contact thirtyeightnorth@gmail.com.


(https://www.38north.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Fig2_Yongbyon-Upd-18-0626-1024x768.jpg)
Figure 2. Overview of the 5 MWe reactor.
Pleaides © CNES 2018, Distribution Airbus DS. For media options, please contact thirtyeightnorth@gmail.com.

The Experimental Light Water Reactor (ELWR)

The four-story engineering office building at the ELWR is now externally complete, with a newly installed concrete driveway leading directly from the building’s entrance to the reactor’s main entrance. (Figure 3) The necessary infrastructure for reactor operations at the ELWR appears externally complete, but there is no visible evidence yet to suggest that operations have begun.

A new small building with a bluish roof has also been erected near the main construction support yard, where only a foundation was previously visible. The purpose of this small non-industrial type building is unknown, but the building appears similar to one that is also newly erected at the Radiochemical Laboratory.

The Kuryong River reservoir that provides cooling water for the Yongbyon reactors appears to be at its intended design levels, and the river seems to be flowing through the diversion sluiceway of the reservoir dam at capacity. It should also be noted that dredging of the riverbed continues upstream of the reactor area; downriver, other earth movements are ongoing.

(https://www.38north.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Fig3_Yongbyon-Upd-18-0626-1024x768.jpg)
Figure 3. New engineering office building externally complete and new small building erected at the ELWR.
Pleaides © CNES 2018, Distribution Airbus DS. For media options, please contact thirtyeightnorth@gmail.com.

The Radiochemical Laboratory


The operational status of the Radiochemical Laboratory (the reprocessing plant used to separate plutonium from spent fuel from the 5 MWe reactor) remains uncertain given the lack of visible vapor coming from the cooling tower. Nonetheless, the site seems active. A large truck is parked near the spent fuel reception building and two trucks are also visible in the motor pool. Another vehicle is outside the security perimeter wall heading south along the access road.

A small blue-roofed building has been erected at the location where we had previously noted a new foundation just north of the cooling tower. (Figure 4) The building appears identical in size and design to the one described above near the ELWR. (Figure 5) Although it is not absolutely clear what role these buildings might serve, they are non-industrial in design, and could have some kind of hospitality role for senior officials.

(https://www.38north.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Fig4_Yongbyon-Upd-18-0626-1024x768.jpg)
Figure 4. Small blue-roofed building at the Radiochemical Laboratory.
Pleaides © CNES 2018, Distribution Airbus DS. For media options, please contact thirtyeightnorth@gmail.com.

(https://www.38north.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Fig5_Yongbyon-Upd-18-0626-1024x768.jpg)
Figure 5. New buildings at the ELWR and Radiochemical Laboratory appear identical in size and design.
Pleaides © CNES 2018, Distribution Airbus DS. For media options, please contact thirtyeightnorth@gmail.com.

At the associated Thermal Plant, the coal bins appear to have been somewhat depleted, suggesting operations at the Thermal Plant have continued. But given the lack of other operational indicators at the Radiochemical Laboratory—for instance, it is difficult to discern whether or not there is any smoke rising from the smokestack on this image—it is also unclear what operations are being conducted. (Figure 6)

(https://www.38north.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Fig6_Yongbyon-Upd-18-0626-1024x768.jpg)
Figure 6. Coal bins appear to be somewhat depleted since early May 2018, no obvious smoke plume observed.
Pleaides © CNES 2018, Distribution Airbus DS. For media options, please contact thirtyeightnorth@gmail.com.

Uranium Enrichment Plant

The increased roof staining at the northwest corner of the cascade halls, as shown in Figure 7, indicates continued operations at the Uranium Enrichment Plant. The staining is caused by the deposition of water vapor coming from the six cooling units associated with gas centrifuge operations. (Figure 7)

(https://www.38north.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Fig7_Yongbyon-Upd-18-0626-1024x768.jpg)
Figure 7. Operations continue at the Uranium Enrichment Plant.
Pleaides © CNES 2018, Distribution Airbus DS. For media options, please contact thirtyeightnorth@gmail.com.

The Radioisotope Production Facility

Since late 2017, two new buildings have been constructed in the southwest corner of the Radioisotope Production Facility near the end of the rail yard line serving that facility. At least one of these new buildings could be intended to store rail-delivered chemicals to support operations in the main production building, as over the past month, a below-grade pipeline has also been completed that connects them with the main production building, thereby providing a possible means for transferring such chemicals. (Figure 8) Little is known about this facility other than it was constructed in 2015, with various modifications since then. However, it is presumed to be a radioisotope production facility based on the internal layout and features observed remotely during its construction.

(https://www.38north.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Fig8_Yongbyon-Upd-18-0626-1024x768.jpg)
Figure 8. Pipeline connecting new buildings and main production building recently completed at the Radioisotope Production Facility.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on July 06, 2018, 06:40:35 PM
Not losing face is a big factor in Asian cultures, so I doubt this will be received in the jolly manner Trump expects.  Kim will think 'Why do they publicly highlight this insulting gift worth $1 before it is even given.  If I accept it, everyone will laugh at me behind their hands.  If I reject it and make a scene, everyone will call me a murderer, terrorist and prostitution ring mastermind.  If I give him a gift of caligraphy saying “mentally deranged dotard.” will we all have a good laugh about it afterwards, or start WW3?

https://www.rt.com/news/431875-trump-rocketman-elton-song/ (https://www.rt.com/news/431875-trump-rocketman-elton-song/)
Pompeo brings Kim ‘Rocket man’ CD from Trump – report
6 Jul, 2018

US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, who has landed in Pyongyang for high-level talks, will reportedly deliver a gift for Kim Jong-un – a record of the song ‘Rocket Man’ by Elton John, according to South Korea’s daily Chosun Ilbo.

The publication said the idea of sending the record stemmed from the milestone meeting between the two leaders in Singapore in June. Kim mentioned that Trump once labeled him ‘a little Rocket Man' when US-North Korea ties hit their nadir last year on the heels of Pyongyang’s nuclear tests and missile launches.

“Trump then asked Kim if he knew the song and Kim said no,” the South Korean daily quoted a Washington official as saying. The US president has written a message on the CD and signed it, according to the report.

Several times last year, Trump referred to Kim “little rocket man,” while Kim angrily retorted by labelling the president a “mentally deranged dotard.” Still, the firebrand American leader consistently tried to smooth things over with the Pyongyang ruler.

On one occasion in 2017, Trump sent his ghostwritten 1987 bestseller ‘The Art of the Deal’ via retired NBA star Dennis Rodman, who visited Pyongyang several times before. Other gifts included a copy of ‘Where’s Waldo?’ – a mermaid puzzle for Kim’s daughter – signed jerseys and several bundles of upmarket soap.

The latest gift – Elton John’s hit song, which first appeared on John's 1972 album – tells the story of a man feeling “lonely out in space,” and features the following line: “I'm not the man they think I am at home, oh no, I'm a rocket man, rocket man burning out his fuse up here alone.”

The refrain ironically references what Washington would feel about denuclearizing North Korea: “And I think it's gonna be a long, long time, till touch down brings me round again to find.”

Gifts aside, Pompeo’s spokeswoman Heather Nauert said he will seek “to fill in some details” on North Korea’s commitment to give up nuclear weapons. “I expect that the DPRK [Democratic People’s Republic of Korea] is ready to do the same,” Nauert said earlier.

In an earlier tweet Pompeo said Trump believes Kim wants a “different, brighter future” for North Koreans. “I spoke with POTUS while we were both in the air. The President told me he believes that Chairman Kim sees a different, brighter future for the people of North Korea. We both hope that’s true,” he said.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on July 07, 2018, 07:04:52 AM
Oh, that didn't go so well.  So it's not to be unilateral denuclearisation.

https://www.rt.com/news/432096-nkorea-pompeo-talks-regrattable/ (https://www.rt.com/news/432096-nkorea-pompeo-talks-regrattable/)
N. Korea regrets US attitude & unilateral denuclearization demands during Pompeo talks
7 Jul, 2018

Pyongyang has voiced its regret over America’s attitude during high-level talks with US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, and accused Washington of seeking unilateral and forced denuclearization from North Korea.

“We were expecting the US… to come up with constructive measures to help build confidence in the spirit of reunion and talks. However, the attitude of the US was indeed regrettable,” said a statement released by the Korean Central News Agency, citing an unnamed North Korean Foreign Ministry spokesman.

The US betrayed the spirit of last month’s summit between President Donald Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong-un by making unilateral demands on the complete, verifiable and irreversible denuclearization (CVID) of North Korea, the statement said.

According to the North Korean official, the outcome of the follow-up talks led to a “dangerous phase that might rattle our willingness for denuclearization that had been firm.”

The North expected that Washington “would offer constructive measures that would help build trust based on the spirit of the leaders’ summit,” the official said. “However, the attitude and stance the US showed in the first high-level meeting was regrettable,” he concluded.

It comes just hours after US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo claimed he had made progress “on almost all of the central issues” in his talks with Pyongyang.

“I think we made progress in every element of our discussions,” he said, according to a pool report from US journalists who accompanied him to North Korea.

“These are complicated issues but we made progress on almost all of the central issues. Some places a great deal of progress, other places there’s still more work to be done,” he continued.

Pompeo landed in Pyongyang for high-level talks with Kim Yong-chol, vice chairman of North Korea’s ruling Workers’ Party Central Committee, on Friday. The officials reportedly discussed a range of issues, including the return of the remains of US troops killed during the Korean War.
Title: Re: The Korea thread
Post by: Palloy2 on July 07, 2018, 06:49:54 PM
This is the text of North Korean Foreign Ministry's statement, via KCNAwatch:

https://kcnawatch.co/newstream/1531000080-429116112/fm-spokesman-on-dprk-u-s-high-level-talks/
FM Spokesman on DPRK-U.S. High-level Talks

Date: 08/07/2018 | Source: KCNA.kp (En)

Pyongyang, July 7 (KCNA) -- A spokesman of the Ministry of the Foreign Affairs of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea on Saturday released the following statement:

International society has focused its expectation and attention on the DPRK-U.S. high-level talks for the implementation of the Joint Statement of the DPRK-U.S. summit after the first historic summit meeting and talks were held between the DPRK and the U.S.

We expected that the U.S. side would bring itself with a constructive proposal which would help build up trust true to the spirit of the DPRK-U.S. summit meeting and talks. We, on our part, were also thinking of doing something which corresponds with it.

It was, however, so regretful to mention what the U.S. side had shown in its attitude and stand at the first DPRK-U.S. high-level talks held on 6 and 7 July.

The DPRK side, during the talks, put forward the constructive proposals to seek a balanced implementation of all the provisions of the Joint Statement out of its firm willingness to remain faithful to the implementation of the spirit and agreed points of the DPRK-U.S. summit meeting and talks.

These include taking wide-ranging proactive steps of simultaneous actions in a respective manner such as realizing multilateral exchanges for improved relations between the DPRK and the U.S., making public a declaration on the end of war first on the occasion of the 65th anniversary of the signing of the Korean Armistice Agreement to build a peace regime on the Korean Peninsula, dismantling the test ground of high thrust engine to make a physical verification of the suspension of ICBM production as part of denuclearization steps and making an earliest start of the working-level talks for recovering POW/MIA remains.

Before the talks, Kim Yong Chol, vice-chairman of the Central Committee of the Workers' Party of Korea, who is also a chief delegate from our side to the talks, was authorized to convey with a due respect to U.S. State Secretary Pompeo a personal letter sent from Chairman of the State Affairs Commission of the DPRK Kim Jong Un to President Trump.

Chairman Kim Jong Un expressed his expectation and conviction that good personal relations forged with President Trump and his sentiments of good faith built towards the latter at the Singapore summit and talks would be further consolidated through the process of future dialogues such as high-level talks this time.

But, the U.S. side came up only with its unilateral and gangster-like demand for denuclearization just calling for CVID, declaration and verification, all of which run counter to the spirit of the Singapore summit meeting and talks.

The U.S. side never mentioned the issue of establishing a peace regime on the Korean peninsula which is essential for defusing tension and preventing a war. It took the position that it would even backtrack on the issue it had agreed on to end the status of war under certain conditions and excuses.

As for the issue of announcing the declaration of the end of war at an early date, it is the first process of defusing tension and establishing a lasting peace regime on the Korean peninsula, and at the same time, it constitutes a first factor in creating trust between the DPRK and the U.S. This issue was also stipulated in Panmunjom Declaration as a historical task to terminate the war status on the Korean peninsula which continues for nearly 70 years. President Trump, too, was more enthusiastic about this issue at the DPRK-U.S. summit talks.

The issues the U.S. side insisted on at the talks are all roots of troubles, which the previous administrations also had insisted on to disrupt the dialogue processes, stoke the distrust and increase the danger of war.

The U.S. side, during the talks, made a great publicity about suspension of one or two joint military exercises. But suspension of one action called exercises is a highly reversible step which can be resumed anytime at any moment as all of its military force remains intact in its previously-held positions without scraping even a rifle. This is incomparable with the irreversible step taken by the DPRK to explode and dismantle the nuclear test ground.

The results of the talks can't but be so apprehensive.

We thought that the U.S. side would come with a constructive proposal which accords with the spirit of the DPRK-U.S. summit meeting and talks. But expectation and hope of ours were so naive as to be foolish.

Conventional ways can never create new things. Treading on trite stereotype of all the failure would invite another failure only.

Valuable agreement was reached in such a short time at the Singapore summit talks first ever in the history of the DPRK-U.S. relations. This is attributable to the fact that President Trump himself said he would move towards resolving the DPRK-U.S. relations and the issue of denuclearization of the Korean peninsula in a new way.

If both sides at the working level reneged on the new way agreed at the summit and returned to the old way, the epoch-making Singapore summit would be meaningless, which was held thanks to the determinations and wills of the two top leaders to open a new future for the interests of the two peoples and peace and security of the world.

The first DPRK-U.S. high-level talks this time brought us in a dangerous situation where we may be shaken in our unshakable will for denuclearization, rather than consolidating trust between the DPRK and the U.S.

In the last few months, we displayed maximum patience and watched the U.S. while initiating good-will steps as many as we can.

But, it seems that the U.S. misunderstood our goodwill and patience.

The U.S. is fatally mistaken if it went to the extent of regarding that the DPRK would be compelled to accept, out of its patience, the demands reflecting its gangster-like mindset.

A shorter way to denuclearization on the Korean peninsula is to remove deep-rooted mistrust and build up trust between the DPRK and the U.S. For this, both sides should be bold enough to be free from old ways which had only recorded failures and resolve the problem in a fresh manner which is never bound by the existing ways. A shortcut to it is also to take a step-by-step approach and follow the principle of simultaneous actions in resolving what is feasible one by one while giving priority to creating trust.

But, if the U.S., being captivated in a fidget, tries to force upon us the old ways claimed by the previous administrations, this will get us nowhere.

If the objective situation does not stand in favor of the denuclearization against our wills, this would rather cast a heavy cloud over the atmosphere of developing bilateral relations which had shown its good movement in its beginning.

Should the headwind begin to blow, it would cause a great disappointment not only to the international society aspiring after global peace and security but also to both the DPRK and the U.S. If so, this will finally make each side seek for another choice and there is no guarantee that this will not result into yet another tragedy.

We still cherish our good faith in President Trump.

The U.S. should make a serious consideration of whether the toleration of the headwind against the wills of the two top leaders would meet the aspirations and expectations of the world people as well as the interests of its country.
Title: 🚀 Andre Vltcheck’s eyewitness report on North Korea (Video)
Post by: RE on July 29, 2018, 12:40:09 AM
https://www.greanvillepost.com/2018/07/28/andre-vltchecks-eyewitness-report-on-north-korea-video/ (https://www.greanvillepost.com/2018/07/28/andre-vltchecks-eyewitness-report-on-north-korea-video/)

Andre Vltcheck’s eyewitness report on North Korea (Video)
July 28, 2018 Posted by Addison dePitt

(https://www.greanvillepost.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Andrevltcheklogo007.jpg)

HELP ENLIGHTEN YOUR FELLOWS. BE SURE TO PASS THIS ON. BREAKING THE EMPIRE'S MEDIA MONOPOLY IS UP TO YOU.

(https://www.greanvillepost.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/North-Korea-metro-station.jpg)
North Korea’s capital subway: clean, efficient, reliable.
The still much maligned North Korea is a huge surprise to many visitors arriving in the country after lifetimes of immersion in the empire’s dishonest culture of disinformation. Here’s a quick and effective corrective. Disseminate widely.

http://www.youtube.com/v/MV2RQCZqsTk

About the Author

Andre Vltchek is a philosopher, novelist, filmmaker and investigative journalist. He has covered wars and conflicts in dozens of countries. Three of his latest books are his tribute to “The Great October Socialist Revolution” a revolutionary novel “Aurora” and a bestselling work of political non-fiction: “Exposing Lies Of The Empire”. View his other books here. Watch Rwanda Gambit, his groundbreaking documentary about Rwanda and DRCongo and his film/dialogue with Noam Chomsky “On Western Terrorism”. Vltchek presently resides in East Asia and the Middle East, and continues to work around the world. He can be reached through his website and his Twitter.