Doomstead Diner Menu => Doomsteading => Topic started by: Guest on April 03, 2018, 11:43:24 AM

Title: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Guest on April 03, 2018, 11:43:24 AM


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Published on The Doomstead Diner on April 3, 2018



C5 walks into a diner



Discuss this article at the Doomsteading Table inside the Diner






 



 



 





… Stop Me If You Have Heard This One…






 



With your Host, Category5.



 



A funny thing happened to me on the way to the apocalypse.



Stop me if you have heard this one. A disheveled, aging, survivalist in a leather jacket walks into the Doomstead Diner. He puts a tiny little piano on the bar, then whips out a 10 inch pianist…. Buduptup.



That’s right folks. The Dark Green Mountain Survival Research Centre is now being cross posted at The Doomstead Diner. Hey, Mom, I’m almost famous.



To the new folks reading me for the first time, Welcome!



As I go into Season Two, this is a good time to recap who I am, what I am about…..And some of what we will be  building or experimenting with, here at the Dark Green Mountain Survival Research Centre this year. There is a good place to start. No. That is not a spelling error. It’s a quickly disappearing, Canadian spelling. If I had known I would have so many Amerikan readers I might have spelled it the other way. MrsC5 and myself  live on a paid for 110 acre Doomstead in rural Nova Scotia. You can say, it is a place that has already gone into economic collapse… and sort of has been for the last 200 years. This has its pros and its cons.



Lets get straight to the obvious. I am not like the other survivalists. I like my apocalypse Rude, Crude and Irreverent. I am the Dirty Street Punk, Gen-X Version of Survivalism.



More so, I consider most of the survivalist advice out there as completely and utterly useless. I know. I have lived much of it. It is survival advice that can not produce “Actual Survival”. In many cases, it is the complete opposite of survival and almost guaranteed to get you killed.



Thus the beginning of the C5 rules of Survival.



C5 Rule of Survival  #1 – There is no such thing as a Survival Expert. Anyone claiming to be is just trying to sell you something, whether that is a product, service, political, religious, or racial position. TRUST ME on this. I wrote a book about it that you will want to purchase.



C5 Rule of Survival #2 – Never trust anyone that says, “Trust Me”.



(Do your due diligence)



C5 Rule of Survival #3 – Take all the old Survivalist Advice and, pretty much, do the complete opposite…. and your actual chances of surviving goes up substantially.



 



Now, there is no book to purchase, by the way… but if their was, those first three rules would be on the cover… With me, Buck Naked, under the title, Modern Survivalism, EXPOSED!



There is actually nothing new about that statement. The late Mel Tappan, Survival writer for Guns and Ammo, back in the day, confronted a lot of the things I also challenge. Back in his day, he used to say the problem with Survivalism was too many Doctors and Lawyers. Not enough plumbers and electricians. Nowadays the problem with Survivalism, and even its more moderate offshoot, Preppers, is, too many plumbers and electricians… that all want to be special forces, invincible, super heroes roaming the wasteland, saving us all from evil doers.



The lives of the working class have become so miserable and meaningless that they fantasize about insurgent war and mass murder. This is, historically, how death squads happen. They feed on the most paranoid propaganda fantasies and, over time, it becomes an addiction … that needs even more darker paranoid fantasies to get the same buzz and feeling of that they have special knowledge. That they are special. It is more of an Existential Crisis at the end of empire.



 



So, let’s try to forget that the last 60 years of Survivalism and Prepping even existed for a moment, shall we.



Let’s wipe the slate clean. Let’s strip everything down to the most basic necessities of life.



And it’s not what you think.



Here are the main things we are facing. We are running out of the most essential resources as the population continues to grow. We have an economy that must always grow exponentially or it will immediately crash. And the crazy, abrupt change in weather patterns around the globe, long predicted, is now happening as we watch. Meanwhile, the Gen Pop, or  general population are going into multiple versions of insanity and denial of reality.






(I sometimes like listening to this, simply for the beat poetry. What can I say. I am a Renaissance Doomer)



 



So. Let’s start with an easy one.



If you suddenly are let go from your job and a bunch of other people are in the same position, and over time it becomes clear that you aren’t going to have another job again that actually pays enough to live on… FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE…the big question is…



…Where are you going to live?



No biggy. Think it through.



I live in cana’duh so that is no joke. Exposure and hypothermia will kill you faster than hunger or dehydration. Everything starts there. If you have a mortgage, you need to fully understand that your house is not yours. Not in the slightest. Not even a portion of it. Not until you have paid off every last penny…or sold it to some other sucker. Miss a few payments and it’s gone. Let’s not fool ourselves with the idea that if the banks fail, your house is free. They will just sell you and your debt to someone else. 2008 is still fresh in many people’s minds. The 2014-15 commodities crash is still fresh in the minds of Albertans. Greece’s collapse is still ongoing.



Many Millennials will be laughing hysterically at this paragraph and saying to themselves, “… Like I would ever be able to afford a Mortgage. Boomer problems. Shit…”



So that is your first question to answer. Where will I live when I no longer have (enough) money coming in?



 



I am not going  to actually give you an answer. That is up to you to figure out.



I am just giving you the right question to ask.



I often say, Survivalists and Preppers are really bad at understanding Transitional Phases. It doesn’t fit into their carefully scripted freedom fantasy. They are waiting for some magic event. “Bang! And we are off! Let the apocalypse begin.”



Nothing makes me roll my eyes and think, “Dead Survivalist walking”  more than hearing those, all too common, words, “When the Shit Hits The Fan, I am going to….”. Insert lame survival plan here. If you are not living your survival plan NOW, you simply do not have the working system necessary or enough experience. It’s a full time gig.



Let me rephrase that. It’s a full time gig simply to figure out everything you are doing wrong and how much you suck at simply staying alive. This is called, The Learning Curve. “If the apocalypse had actually arrived, survivors a few years later would have gotten used to a landscape scattered with empty garden-in-a-box kits, overgrown garden patches, and the skeletal remains of preppers who starved to death because the learning curve lasted just that much longer than they did” (John Michael Greer)



 



So, I created the  C5’s  5Fs  to slim Survivalism and Prepping down to something that is Real, Relational, and Relevant.



 



C5’s 5F- #1 – Food Storage –



“Because it is Cheap. Because it is Easy. Because your Great Grandparents wouldn’t understand why you didn’t and would be really angry with you” (Chris Martenson). The reason this is #1 is that even your best efforts cannot guarantee that your food systems will work, the weather will cooperate, the forests won’t be stripped clean of animals (which is almost guaranteed) or all your best growing abilities won’t be destroyed by super storms, droughts or fires. Even if you have food production down, that food must still be stored each and every year… with extra in case the next crops fail. I also often say, “Someone may try to kill you a few times in your life (I have survived a few attempts on my life before so I know)… but you have to Eat, Each and Every Day. Often, more than once.” If that seems daunting and expensive, here is all my best advice on how to do it cheaper than your diet today.  https://darkgreenmountainsurvivalresearchcentre.wordpress.com/2018/03/14/season-ii-c5-serves-cock-favored-soup-doomstead-dining-on-survival-food-storage-home-at-the-dark-green-mountain/



cock



 



C5’s 5F- #2 – Food Production –



Food. IT IS THE ALPHA AND OMEGA OF SURVIVAL. The Beginning and the End. Every thing else is extra. If you do not have that, you really have NOTHING. And You have NO CHANCE. If you were ever wondering what to do with your life, that is it. Right there folks. If that is not enough, figure out how to do it without oil or machinery input or dept financing or a functioning market to buy or sell it. That is your full life’s work right there. If where you live is not conducive to achieving this, or will not sustain food production because of climate conditions, water, population density or climate change, I have a simple answer to solve this dilemma. MOVE. Not when the shit hits the fan. Not as a Bug Out plan. Now. It will take you years of hard work and adjustment. The locals will take many years, if not decades, to accept you. (plus you will probably fail a few times. Doomsteading attempts are like Ex Wives. The first two are practice)



multi use greenhouse 2



 



C5’s 5F- #3 – Fire wood –



I live in Cana’duh. Heating is not an option. All survival advice is regional. If you live in a warm climate, this may be less important. Without industrial energy inputs, this is your one and only energy source. No wood, no survival. If you do not have this or can not use this where you are, see my very simple answer to solve this dilemma, above. On our return to cana’duh, we learned there had basically been no winter here, other than the occasional, lethal, polar vortexes which are now the new normal, and of course, the Bomb Cyclone on the day I was leaving. I don’t use the term Apocalypse lightly. There was absolutely no snow… then we got hit by 4, count it 4 Nor’easters in less than a month, in March. It has been bleak….followed by periods of really fucking depressingly bleak. I took the first snow opportunity to move some wood by sled. We will do a full article on wood soon… that I will probably just call “C5 gets Wood!”



dog and sled



 



C5’s 5F- #4 – Fuel Storage – (Short Term)



Nothing extreme here. Fuel has a short shelf life. We rotate ours into our vehicle every six months to keep it fresh. This is simply for interruptions in the fuel delivery system. A buffer. An Edge. Better to learn to live without it. I am a realist here, though. If fuel supplies abruptly shut off, the Vast Majority of the human population will be dead in short order. Energy Transition Will Not and Can Not solve this. Too Little, Too Late. If we had put war time level effort into this back in the 70s, maybe. Now? THE ONLY WAY OUT IS THROUGH. This is what this Blog is about. If you take my advice, this gives you a Very Slim chance at survival. Very Slim. If you don’t, you have none. FYI, I don’t plan on using this gas storage to run generators or “Tear around Nam looking for the shit”. It will almost all go into my chainsaw. If an abrupt stop happens, I have about two years till the gas goes bad. I was watching The Walking Dead the other night…and somehow, magically, they are still driving around. Never once have I heard them say, ” So. What are we going to do about the disintegrating TIRES”… and goddess forbid, they ever have to use their windshield wipers. TWO YEARS. This is how long I have to buck up enough firewood to get me through old age. Really. That is my SHTF job #1. For everyone else, you will quickly want to memorize the term, “Rocket Mass Heater” and let your fingers do the walking. People will become less uncomfortable using the term, “Faggot” again, in its historical usage. Look it up…and tremble.  https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/faggot



gas 1



C5’s 5F- #5 – Friends – (Long Term)



The People part of Prepping. Also the single hardest Job. And it has been an almost Full Time Job to achieve this and solve this problem in my life. It’s time for Survivalists to get real and kick the ideology driven idea of  Self Sufficiency to the curb as a masturbatory fluff Fantasy, that can not produce “Actual Survival”. Have you actually ever met a real person that is actually self sufficient? Me neither. If you think you might have, look a little closer and I suspect not.  There is a reason humans have almost always lived in villages. It is a survival system. Full disclosure. I don’t live in a village… and this makes me extremely vulnerable. My main goal in life before I die is to create one. A goal of which I expect to FAIL. I am running out of time. But you never know. I have been known to pull off miracles before. You are reading me, aren’t you? In the mean time, we throw alot of parties, go to others parties and try to think of ways to get like minded people to do stuff together. Building social reliance, social bonds and mutual support networks. Social Capital.



 



That there is the absolute minimum to survival in a rapidly changing and highly fucked up world, where a mass die off is quickly approaching. It is truly daunting. You now only have two options. Party like it is 1999 (or 2007)… or make a decision that you are going to try to save yourself and others. If you choose the latter, it is NOW time to get busy. Not tomorrow. Not when the Shit Hits The Fan. Now. Yesterday would better.



There is also another way to use the C5’s  F5s when thinking about all the other Vanilla ISIS, Yuppy Scum Survivalists out there that dominate the medium.



That would be to say out loud, “Well, Fucking Fuck the Fucking Fucked Fuckers”.



I am rather proud of myself for that one.



The other would be to say to them, “Go back to playing more Call Of Duty and watch lots of porn and live as happy of a life as long as you can, now…because your ‘Prepping’ can not produce ‘Actual Survival’… and you are quickly becoming a Clear and Present Danger to those of us that are actually trying”.



This is all my best advice, right there, shortened for  modern attention spans. Drop Mic.






Hang on. I dropped the mic. It rolled under the couch. Almost got it……….Got it!



OK, Grass Hoppers. This is my Kung Fu. Pay attention. I really do have other shit to do.



Up top is commentary. Now comes the practical survival advice.



There is an essential product you will have to purchase to stay alive…for when the shit hits the fan. Not a magnesium fire starter. Not a Glock or AR15. Not a Mylar lined poncho so the N.W.O. drones can’t find you.



A ladder. You heard me right. An aluminum extension ladder. The higher quality the better. It’s essential.



No, seriously. Have you EVER heard a survival teacher tell you, “You need an extension ladder or you will die”? Ever?



Can you figure out why? Think it through.



It is because you will have to get up onto your roof and clean the creosote out of your stove pipes… at least once a year. No one is coming to do it for you. If you do not do this, you will have a creosote fire and your house will burn to the ground around you. There is no getting around this eventually happening to you.



If you have lived it, that is Sooooo obvious that it is not even worth stating.



But that is the difference between REAL SURVIVAL TRAINING… and the other crap you read online. I expect A LOT of forest fires. Urban fires. Suburb fires, etc..



If you want REAL SURVIVAL TRAINING… here is a good one. It’s from my online friend, a trusted and reasonable prepper,  Denob. The administrator of the Canadian Preppers Network and IPN.






So, how do I know this. Do you think it comes from a divine prophetic ability? Nope. I was working on a project and left my ladder a little too close to the road. Some crack head redneck local decided to drive off with it. My first realization was that I could no longer get on the roof… and I hadn’t done my chimney clean in the spring like I was supposed to. I quickly made a ladder but it was too heavy for practical use. I am still waiting for a second hand ladder to show up at a garage sale. I suppose another piece of survival advice is, if you already have a ladder in your garage, it should also have a lock and something to attach it to. This is so thieves don’t use it to break into your house by going through any open, second story window.



The other… is that my stove gasket has been hanging down, probably should have been changed 2 years ago, and I have been waiting for spring when I no longer need the stove, to change it out. This means I burned alot of extra wood and had too hot a fire occasionally because there was too much air going in.



I suppose a third is that I had a creosote fire once, Way Back, when I first had to use a wood stove and it was new to me. It’s so common that the local fire chief took out his wood stove and only heats with electricity now. He was traumatized by seeing too many ruined lives.



But I can just hear the push back and comments from the survivalisty tactical tykes out there, when confronted with “The Ladder Factor”. It would be, “Well, you cant fit that in a Bug Out Bag”. No, really. I got that comment once when telling people the #5 purchase preppers should make is a Broad Fork https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadfork  (#1 item being a wood stove). Another would be hearing, “What are you going to do, swing it around in a circle to hit attackers with”. Really. I got that comment when presenting the #3 item. A quality, corded power drill…and a spare. It’s why I don’t and just can’t allow comments on my site. I just want to STRANGLE the fuckers!



It’s for my own mental health.






 



Sooooo. MrsC5 and myself just came back from 9 months in Peru and 3 months in Barbados. While MrsC5 was volunteering with a Canadian Development agency, I was taking the opportunity to study how others survive with less resources. We had basically burnt out from trying to achieve all that stuff  mentioned above and needed a break to recharge. For the new comers that are just tuning in now, the series started here  https://darkgreenmountainsurvivalresearchcentre.wordpress.com/2017/04/18/survival-advice-from-south-america-part-1-the-arrival/ and you can work out how to read the series in order, yourself, if you wish. There is some epic posts in there.



And what can you expect from us this year at The Dark Green Mountain Survival Research Centre? It’s going to be a busy year.



The sexy stuff  happens later in the year. We have to do some upgrades, stabilization and rust proofing on our shipping container outbuilding while bringing in a second container to be turned into a hurricane proof, fireproof, polar vortex resistant, guest house. The “Research” part of this is, “how cheaply and quickly can we possibly pull this off?” Emphasis on cheap and fast.  It will be used for people staying here. But it is also a back up home if a superstorm turns our main house into match sticks or embers.



As soon as spring hits, I will be in a race to get as much pussy as possible. Pussy willow I mean. I will need at least a thousand 3ft willow cuttings. We will be starting living fences from scratch. Animal and human barriers. Mainly around the garden, since our deer fence is decomposing quickly, but other places as well. While doing that, we will revisit the ancient fencing method of Dead Hedging.



And I will soon try to do an experiment on mobile defensive barriers, and time how fast it takes to build each 8ft mobile section. The idea is to put it in front of vulnerable parts of the house, then as more can be built, the safe zone can be expanded outwards. The big part of this experiment will be to observe just how quickly nature destroys all of our effort and whether it is worth doing on mass. So, it is a multi year experiment.



And we will be revisiting Mythos and Logos Doomstead where they will be teaching us how to render clay from clay-ish soil, the main building block in cob building material. It’s heavy, slow work. I will be doing alot of bitch work while I learn, with you as the beneficiaries. I will be doing this to begin paying them back for saving my ass and tending our doomstead when we were in a bind overseas. I also have to do the same paying back, for a friend I will simply and mysteriously call “S”. She will need some help finishing her mini home and that will give the opportunity to talk about that subject.



We will also continue to work on C5’s F5- #5. The people part of prepping.  I may call this post “50 Shades of Grey. The Ties that Bind- Sexy Adult Parties and Guy on Guy action”. It’s on Community Building or Growing Social Capital. What did you think it was about? Oh, That. Well, whatever gets you UP in the morning. Never mind.



And more. Lots more. There really is a lifetime of work to do here. We will see how much we can get accomplished in between the usual food, firewood, some odd jobs off site since we have no income coming in this year and taking care of repairs (lots of repairs. Nature sure likes to break stuff) . Stay Tuned.



See you, next month





 



If you would like to give a Tip for services rendered or to support the cause, go here. https://www.paypal.com/donate/?token=MHI6RXIMnpmep-_sLNw_SK10fPfNKw2G24O8SOpLN3cKo-l-imCdw5inPYaBQMkbZFaOnm&country.x=CA&locale.x=CA   All “Tips” go towards material costs for future experiments.



(Thanks for the donations, N.S. and J.D.)



 



 



 



 





 



 



 



 





Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on April 03, 2018, 12:21:56 PM
OK, I have to ask.

How did you afford the experiments down in Peru & Barbados?  How do you pay the taxes on your Doomstead in the Great White North?  You own it free & clear you say (besides taxes of course), so there must have been money to buy the place which came from somewhere.  What percentage of your food sustenance come from what you raise yourself on the Doomstead?

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on April 03, 2018, 02:56:04 PM
OK, I have to ask.

How did you afford the experiments down in Peru & Barbados?  How do you pay the taxes on your Doomstead in the Great White North?  You own it free & clear you say (besides taxes of course), so there must have been money to buy the place which came from somewhere.  What percentage of your food sustenance come from what you raise yourself on the Doomstead?

RE
Lets get to it. I am not a super star. I just play one on TV. MrsC5 volunteered with an NGO....and the canadian government throws guilt money at a few places to ovecompensate for some really fucking evil mining extraction and exploitation. A sociology professor that also does small scale farming is an oddity. The government paid our way, though, only flights, rent and a small wage. Most that go cant afford how simply we live and need extra money. It is a cheap way to see the world...if you have special skills...and can face some danger. MrsC5 has me to face the danger.
Next, I didnt pay for a penny of this place. I am only here by luck, I acknowledge that,  and luck is not a good survival plan. See, Return to The Dark Green Mountain. on the blog

Now, lets go to the smart stuff. Taxes are about 200$... a year. No shit. That is because it is a farm and has low taxes. It is a dirt road where few want to be. It is damned close to a failed state....with no future.....and anyone with skills leaves it. The locals...SUCK!  Cheap land. Perfect for anyone not playing the game. People willing to face hardship.

C5 Rule of Survival- If all else fails... lower your standards.

Lets also not pretend I am self sufficient. I have a lifetime of "Survivalism"under my belt. Even still, after 5 years of full time work, we had only achieved the absolute minimum not to starve to death. Not Mother Earth News, self sufficiency. Simply, not dieing. That is a reality check... and one of the reasons I do this shit.

I pop survival fantasy bubbles, not because I am a shit disturber. but because i want to give people all the bad news. Here is a secret... only for you mods... to be burned after reading.
The only reason I am doing this "Rock Star" thing.... is to counter the Rawles, and Alex Jones and Michael Snyder types... That are going to get a shit load of people killed, death squad style. The only way to do this is to face someone pushing Alpha Maleness... and say, " OK Bitch. Lets whip it out on the table and see who is the bigger survivalist". It sucks. I would prefer to be invisible. But the task has fallen to me... with little chance of succeeding. But what else was I going to do with my life, anyhow. I had already died once.



Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Surly1 on April 03, 2018, 03:09:02 PM
OK, I have to ask.

How did you afford the experiments down in Peru & Barbados?  How do you pay the taxes on your Doomstead in the Great White North?  You own it free & clear you say (besides taxes of course), so there must have been money to buy the place which came from somewhere.  What percentage of your food sustenance come from what you raise yourself on the Doomstead?

RE
Lets get to it. I am not a super star. I just play one on TV. MrsC5 volunteered with an NGO....and the canadian government throws guilt money at a few places to ovecompensate for some really fucking evil mining extraction and exploitation. A sociology professor that also does small scale farming is an oddity. The government paid our way, though, only flights, rent and a small wage. Most that go cant afford how simply we live and need extra money. It is a cheap way to see the world...if you have special skills...and can face some danger. MrsC5 has me to face the danger.
Next, I didnt pay for a penny of this place. I am only here by luck, I acknowledge that,  and luck is not a good survival plan. See, Return to The Dark Green Mountain. on the blog

Now, lets go to the smart stuff. Taxes are about 200$... a year. No shit. That is because it is a farm and has low taxes. It is a dirt road where few want to be. It is damned close to a failed state....with no future.....and anyone with skills leaves it. The locals...SUCK!  Cheap land. Perfect for anyone not playing the game. People willing to face hardship.

C5 Rule of Survival- If all else fails... lower your standards.

Lets also not pretend I am self sufficient. I have a lifetime of "Survivalism"under my belt. Even still, after 5 years of full time work, we had only achieved the absolute minimum not to starve to death. Not Mother Earth News, self sufficiency. Simply, not dieing. That is a reality check... and one of the reasons I do this shit.

I pop survival fantasy bubbles, not because I am a shit disturber. but because i want to give people all the bad news. Here is a secret... only for you mods... to be burned after reading.
The only reason I am doing this "Rock Star" thing.... is to counter the Rawles, and Alex Jones and Michael Snyder types... That are going to get a shit load of people killed, death squad style. The only way to do this is to face someone pushing Alpha Maleness... and say, " OK Bitch. Lets whip it out on the table and see who is the bigger survivalist". It sucks. I would prefer to be invisible. But the task has fallen to me... with little chance of succeeding. But what else was I going to do with my life, anyhow. I had already died once.

Glad you are here. Great stuff.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: azozeo on April 03, 2018, 04:26:01 PM
I think yer' huffin' methane.

Welcome....  :icon_sunny:
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on April 03, 2018, 04:44:34 PM
OK, I have to ask.

How did you afford the experiments down in Peru & Barbados?  How do you pay the taxes on your Doomstead in the Great White North?  You own it free & clear you say (besides taxes of course), so there must have been money to buy the place which came from somewhere.  What percentage of your food sustenance come from what you raise yourself on the Doomstead?

RE
Lets get to it. I am not a super star. I just play one on TV. MrsC5 volunteered with an NGO....and the canadian government throws guilt money at a few places to ovecompensate for some really fucking evil mining extraction and exploitation. A sociology professor that also does small scale farming is an oddity. The government paid our way, though, only flights, rent and a small wage. Most that go cant afford how simply we live and need extra money. It is a cheap way to see the world...if you have special skills...and can face some danger. MrsC5 has me to face the danger.
Next, I didnt pay for a penny of this place. I am only here by luck, I acknowledge that,  and luck is not a good survival plan. See, Return to The Dark Green Mountain. on the blog

Now, lets go to the smart stuff. Taxes are about 200$... a year. No shit. That is because it is a farm and has low taxes. It is a dirt road where few want to be. It is damned close to a failed state....with no future.....and anyone with skills leaves it. The locals...SUCK!  Cheap land. Perfect for anyone not playing the game. People willing to face hardship.

C5 Rule of Survival- If all else fails... lower your standards.

Lets also not pretend I am self sufficient. I have a lifetime of "Survivalism"under my belt. Even still, after 5 years of full time work, we had only achieved the absolute minimum not to starve to death. Not Mother Earth News, self sufficiency. Simply, not dieing. That is a reality check... and one of the reasons I do this shit.

I pop survival fantasy bubbles, not because I am a shit disturber. but because i want to give people all the bad news. Here is a secret... only for you mods... to be burned after reading.
The only reason I am doing this "Rock Star" thing.... is to counter the Rawles, and Alex Jones and Michael Snyder types... That are going to get a shit load of people killed, death squad style. The only way to do this is to face someone pushing Alpha Maleness... and say, " OK Bitch. Lets whip it out on the table and see who is the bigger survivalist". It sucks. I would prefer to be invisible. But the task has fallen to me... with little chance of succeeding. But what else was I going to do with my life, anyhow. I had already died once.

Well, if you get your land for free and taxes are only $200, it brings Doomsteading a little more in economic reach for the typical J6P.

As far as becoming a Doomer Superstar, these days you really need to do it more through your Utoob channel and have good production values.  Mr. Primitive Technology the Mute from Oz has 7.5M Subscribers.

http://www.youtube.com/v/P73REgj-3UE

Canadian Prepper also does well hawking various kinds of Survivalist gear and heavy fear mongering about Zombies.

I did a Talking Heads show with other "famous" Doomer Bloggers for a couple of years which about doubled our stats while I was doing it, but I'm not really up to doing those anymore and the regulars I had on for the shows are mostly burned out these days.  You and I should have a chat though sometime for a Podcast.  Got a Skype ID?  Send it to me in PM if you do.

Anyhow, as Surly said, it's good to have you aboard the Good Ship Doomstead Diner.  :icon_sunny:

RE Superstar of Doom

(http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Superstar-Doom.gif)
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on April 03, 2018, 05:33:18 PM
OK, I have to ask.

How did you afford the experiments down in Peru & Barbados?  How do you pay the taxes on your Doomstead in the Great White North?  You own it free & clear you say (besides taxes of course), so there must have been money to buy the place which came from somewhere.  What percentage of your food sustenance come from what you raise yourself on the Doomstead?

RE
Lets get to it. I am not a super star. I just play one on TV. MrsC5 volunteered with an NGO....and the canadian government throws guilt money at a few places to ovecompensate for some really fucking evil mining extraction and exploitation. A sociology professor that also does small scale farming is an oddity. The government paid our way, though, only flights, rent and a small wage. Most that go cant afford how simply we live and need extra money. It is a cheap way to see the world...if you have special skills...and can face some danger. MrsC5 has me to face the danger.
Next, I didnt pay for a penny of this place. I am only here by luck, I acknowledge that,  and luck is not a good survival plan. See, Return to The Dark Green Mountain. on the blog

Now, lets go to the smart stuff. Taxes are about 200$... a year. No shit. That is because it is a farm and has low taxes. It is a dirt road where few want to be. It is damned close to a failed state....with no future.....and anyone with skills leaves it. The locals...SUCK!  Cheap land. Perfect for anyone not playing the game. People willing to face hardship.

C5 Rule of Survival- If all else fails... lower your standards.

Lets also not pretend I am self sufficient. I have a lifetime of "Survivalism"under my belt. Even still, after 5 years of full time work, we had only achieved the absolute minimum not to starve to death. Not Mother Earth News, self sufficiency. Simply, not dieing. That is a reality check... and one of the reasons I do this shit.

I pop survival fantasy bubbles, not because I am a shit disturber. but because i want to give people all the bad news. Here is a secret... only for you mods... to be burned after reading.
The only reason I am doing this "Rock Star" thing.... is to counter the Rawles, and Alex Jones and Michael Snyder types... That are going to get a shit load of people killed, death squad style. The only way to do this is to face someone pushing Alpha Maleness... and say, " OK Bitch. Lets whip it out on the table and see who is the bigger survivalist". It sucks. I would prefer to be invisible. But the task has fallen to me... with little chance of succeeding. But what else was I going to do with my life, anyhow. I had already died once.

Glad you are here. Great stuff.
Thanks!

Now, lets not present me as a person with privilege. I was also a street kid. I have faced homelessness a few times. taking refuge in a city, in a gully, creating a shelter with a downed tree, using hot rocks as my heat source.... and two hour sleeps at a time.  Old Boy Scouty survivalisim has its place. It is amazing I am not dead. It just should not be seen as a lifestyle choice. 
(I have also had the police hunting me...but that is a story for another time... It's not romantic. I didn't even get a "Sorry about that"... All I got was a "Just forget about it". I have a high empathy for "Unarmed Black Men". Old school survivalism has its place. Its just that we can do MUCH better, without all of its baggage)
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on April 03, 2018, 06:13:32 PM
OK, I have to ask.

How did you afford the experiments down in Peru & Barbados?  How do you pay the taxes on your Doomstead in the Great White North?  You own it free & clear you say (besides taxes of course), so there must have been money to buy the place which came from somewhere.  What percentage of your food sustenance come from what you raise yourself on the Doomstead?

RE
Lets get to it. I am not a super star. I just play one on TV. MrsC5 volunteered with an NGO....and the canadian government throws guilt money at a few places to ovecompensate for some really fucking evil mining extraction and exploitation. A sociology professor that also does small scale farming is an oddity. The government paid our way, though, only flights, rent and a small wage. Most that go cant afford how simply we live and need extra money. It is a cheap way to see the world...if you have special skills...and can face some danger. MrsC5 has me to face the danger.
Next, I didnt pay for a penny of this place. I am only here by luck, I acknowledge that,  and luck is not a good survival plan. See, Return to The Dark Green Mountain. on the blog

Now, lets go to the smart stuff. Taxes are about 200$... a year. No shit. That is because it is a farm and has low taxes. It is a dirt road where few want to be. It is damned close to a failed state....with no future.....and anyone with skills leaves it. The locals...SUCK!  Cheap land. Perfect for anyone not playing the game. People willing to face hardship.

C5 Rule of Survival- If all else fails... lower your standards.

Lets also not pretend I am self sufficient. I have a lifetime of "Survivalism"under my belt. Even still, after 5 years of full time work, we had only achieved the absolute minimum not to starve to death. Not Mother Earth News, self sufficiency. Simply, not dieing. That is a reality check... and one of the reasons I do this shit.

I pop survival fantasy bubbles, not because I am a shit disturber. but because i want to give people all the bad news. Here is a secret... only for you mods... to be burned after reading.
The only reason I am doing this "Rock Star" thing.... is to counter the Rawles, and Alex Jones and Michael Snyder types... That are going to get a shit load of people killed, death squad style. The only way to do this is to face someone pushing Alpha Maleness... and say, " OK Bitch. Lets whip it out on the table and see who is the bigger survivalist". It sucks. I would prefer to be invisible. But the task has fallen to me... with little chance of succeeding. But what else was I going to do with my life, anyhow. I had already died once.

Well, if you get your land for free and taxes are only $200, it brings Doomsteading a little more in economic reach for the typical J6P.

As far as becoming a Doomer Superstar, these days you really need to do it more through your Utoob channel and have good production values.  Mr. Primitive Technology the Mute from Oz has 7.5M Subscribers.

http://www.youtube.com/v/P73REgj-3UE

Canadian Prepper also does well hawking various kinds of Survivalist gear and heavy fear mongering about Zombies.

I did a Talking Heads show with other "famous" Doomer Bloggers for a couple of years which about doubled our stats while I was doing it, but I'm not really up to doing those anymore and the regulars I had on for the shows are mostly burned out these days.  You and I should have a chat though sometime for a Podcast.  Got a Skype ID?  Send it to me in PM if you do.

Anyhow, as Surly said, it's good to have you aboard the Good Ship Doomstead Diner.  :icon_sunny:

RE Superstar of Doom

(http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Superstar-Doom.gif)
As much as i might want to high five another canadian, Canadian Prepper gets no respect from me. He is just another Yuppy Scum Survivalist. As shit as Nuttin Fancy or that ilk. 100 and 1% useless. Just because he is a Canadian doesn't mean Justin Bieber...or Canadian Prepper, has anything to say. As a Canadian, It is my duty to say, "Sorry". Sorry for Justin Bieber, Residencial schools, Celine Dion....and Canadian Prepper.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on April 03, 2018, 07:01:16 PM
As much as i might want to high five another canadian, Canadian Prepper gets no respect from me. He is just another Yuppy Scum Survivalist. As shit as Nuttin Fancy or that ilk. 100 and 1% useless. Just because he is a Canadian doesn't mean Justin Bieber...or Canadian Prepper, has anything to say. As a Canadian, It is my duty to say, "Sorry". Sorry for Justin Bieber, Residencial schools, Celine Dion....and Canadian Prepper.

I'm not saying anything about the value of either Canadian Prepper's or Mr. Primitive Survival's shows, I'm just pointing out they reach a lot more people than us bloggers do.  Utoob vids can go Viral also, blogs about never do.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on April 03, 2018, 08:04:14 PM
I don't know what it says about me but I'm quit enjoying reading the back catalogue as I tend the sap boiler.
Nice article.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on April 03, 2018, 08:13:06 PM
As much as i might want to high five another canadian, Canadian Prepper gets no respect from me. He is just another Yuppy Scum Survivalist. As shit as Nuttin Fancy or that ilk. 100 and 1% useless. Just because he is a Canadian doesn't mean Justin Bieber...or Canadian Prepper, has anything to say. As a Canadian, It is my duty to say, "Sorry". Sorry for Justin Bieber, Residencial schools, Celine Dion....and Canadian Prepper.

I'm not saying anything about the value of either Canadian Prepper's or Mr. Primitive Survival's shows, I'm just pointing out they reach a lot more people than us bloggers do.  Utoob vids can go Viral also, blogs about never do.

RE
I hear ya. My first Youtube video on The Apocalypse Specific Bicycle got 20, thousand hits before I took it down. I wasn't ready. I was too OPSECy at the time. I got my first stalkers. Also my first online death threats. That brings out the worst in me. I would not want to be my enemy. Seriously. I pulled back, went obscure and only chose to talk to Nova Scotia Preppers. Small and Local.

I really do hear ya though. I really need to hit youtube again... but I need a camera man....and a Tec man. I am far too much of an idiot when it comes to technology. First rule of gunfight club is bring a gun. Technology is my gun...and I would be showing up with a starter pistol
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on April 03, 2018, 08:32:58 PM
As much as i might want to high five another canadian, Canadian Prepper gets no respect from me. He is just another Yuppy Scum Survivalist. As shit as Nuttin Fancy or that ilk. 100 and 1% useless. Just because he is a Canadian doesn't mean Justin Bieber...or Canadian Prepper, has anything to say. As a Canadian, It is my duty to say, "Sorry". Sorry for Justin Bieber, Residencial schools, Celine Dion....and Canadian Prepper.

I'm not saying anything about the value of either Canadian Prepper's or Mr. Primitive Survival's shows, I'm just pointing out they reach a lot more people than us bloggers do.  Utoob vids can go Viral also, blogs about never do.

RE
I hear ya. My first Youtube video on The Apocalypse Specific Bicycle got 20, thousand hits before I took it down. I wasn't ready. I was too OPSECy at the time. I got my first stalkers. Also my first online death threats. That brings out the worst in me. I would not want to be my enemy. Seriously. I pulled back, went obscure and only chose to talk to Nova Scotia Preppers. Small and Local.

I really do hear ya though. I really need to hit youtube again... but I need a camera man....and a Tec man. I am far too much of an idiot when it comes to technology. First rule of gunfight club is bring a gun. Technology is my gun...and I would be showing up with a starter pistol

mmm...more like a Water Pistol in your case.  lol.  I'm not much better, don't feel too bad.

It's time consuming work to produce something with good pacing, production values etc.  I am sure Mr. Primitive Survival aka the Mute from Oz has a team of people who are shooting his vids and then editing them.  I'd really like to find out who is behind that operation.

For basics though, a decent HD camera and a tripod are enough to get raw footage, and then there are reasonable and relatively EZ to learn video editing tools you can buy as well.  Some open source freebies here also.  I have great equipment, sadly I am not in good enough health these days to go out and do my Stealth Van living vids.  :(

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on April 03, 2018, 09:06:46 PM
As much as i might want to high five another canadian, Canadian Prepper gets no respect from me. He is just another Yuppy Scum Survivalist. As shit as Nuttin Fancy or that ilk. 100 and 1% useless. Just because he is a Canadian doesn't mean Justin Bieber...or Canadian Prepper, has anything to say. As a Canadian, It is my duty to say, "Sorry". Sorry for Justin Bieber, Residencial schools, Celine Dion....and Canadian Prepper.

I'm not saying anything about the value of either Canadian Prepper's or Mr. Primitive Survival's shows, I'm just pointing out they reach a lot more people than us bloggers do.  Utoob vids can go Viral also, blogs about never do.

RE
I hear ya. My first Youtube video on The Apocalypse Specific Bicycle got 20, thousand hits before I took it down. I wasn't ready. I was too OPSECy at the time. I got my first stalkers. Also my first online death threats. That brings out the worst in me. I would not want to be my enemy. Seriously. I pulled back, went obscure and only chose to talk to Nova Scotia Preppers. Small and Local.

I really do hear ya though. I really need to hit youtube again... but I need a camera man....and a Tec man. I am far too much of an idiot when it comes to technology. First rule of gunfight club is bring a gun. Technology is my gun...and I would be showing up with a starter pistol

mmm...more like a Water Pistol in your case.  lol.  I'm not much better, don't feel too bad.

It's time consuming work to produce something with good pacing, production values etc.  I am sure Mr. Primitive Survival aka the Mute from Oz has a team of people who are shooting his vids and then editing them.  I'd really like to find out who is behind that operation.

For basics though, a decent HD camera and a tripod are enough to get raw footage, and then there are reasonable and relatively EZ to learn video editing tools you can buy as well.  Some open source freebies here also.  I have great equipment, sadly I am not in good enough health these days to go out and do my Stealth Van living vids.  :(

RE
No shame there. If I lost it all, I would go strait back into a stealth van. White. No widows. Half raised roof . Ladder on it for supper stealth so it looks like a work vehicle. I miss those days. Of course, those days are why I am so bad at Tec. LOL. Let me rephrase that. I miss those days...sometimes.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on April 03, 2018, 09:26:54 PM
As much as i might want to high five another canadian, Canadian Prepper gets no respect from me. He is just another Yuppy Scum Survivalist. As shit as Nuttin Fancy or that ilk. 100 and 1% useless. Just because he is a Canadian doesn't mean Justin Bieber...or Canadian Prepper, has anything to say. As a Canadian, It is my duty to say, "Sorry". Sorry for Justin Bieber, Residencial schools, Celine Dion....and Canadian Prepper.

I'm not saying anything about the value of either Canadian Prepper's or Mr. Primitive Survival's shows, I'm just pointing out they reach a lot more people than us bloggers do.  Utoob vids can go Viral also, blogs about never do.

RE
I hear ya. My first Youtube video on The Apocalypse Specific Bicycle got 20, thousand hits before I took it down. I wasn't ready. I was too OPSECy at the time. I got my first stalkers. Also my first online death threats. That brings out the worst in me. I would not want to be my enemy. Seriously. I pulled back, went obscure and only chose to talk to Nova Scotia Preppers. Small and Local.

I really do hear ya though. I really need to hit youtube again... but I need a camera man....and a Tec man. I am far too much of an idiot when it comes to technology. First rule of gunfight club is bring a gun. Technology is my gun...and I would be showing up with a starter pistol

mmm...more like a Water Pistol in your case.  lol.  I'm not much better, don't feel too bad.

It's time consuming work to produce something with good pacing, production values etc.  I am sure Mr. Primitive Survival aka the Mute from Oz has a team of people who are shooting his vids and then editing them.  I'd really like to find out who is behind that operation.

For basics though, a decent HD camera and a tripod are enough to get raw footage, and then there are reasonable and relatively EZ to learn video editing tools you can buy as well.  Some open source freebies here also.  I have great equipment, sadly I am not in good enough health these days to go out and do my Stealth Van living vids.  :(

RE
No shame there. If I lost it all, I would go strait back into a stealth van. White. No widows. Half raised roof . Ladder on it for supper stealth so it looks like a work vehicle. I miss those days. Of course, those days are why I am so bad at Tec. LOL. Let me rephrase that. I miss those days...sometimes.

Have you seen any of my vids with my Party Like it's 1999 Stealth Van SaVANnah?  I had a lot of fun last summer making those vids.  :icon_sunny:

http://www.youtube.com/v/0xL8Lj-dXcQ

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on April 03, 2018, 10:33:22 PM
One last thought before I pass out .... and dont talk to anyone for a couple weeks.

Numbers is nothing. Placement is everything. That is why I pestered you folks for the last year. "Devious bastard that I am".

I learned alot from that Youtube video. Before it, no one took bikes seriously in the prepper world. Now it is common knowledge. In fact, It became a trend.(My god. Tacticool bikes. Sorry about that. I will try to fix that) I have done much from the shadows. I hear myself quoted in the prepper world...A LOT. No one knows it was me that said it, I got the info where it needed to go...then people talked. I recently did a very personal blog on PTSD and prepping. It didnt get very many views. But last week, a passed around "survival blogger" talked about PTSD in family members in a survival group. I had hit my mark. People will never know it was because of me. Me is not important. Just the info.

So, I chose to be a clown on the edges. People only read me because I am outrageous. Nearly untouchable and unsharable... but if the right people hear what I am saying... in spite of the rock star clown suit, It will change the narrative. I probably do better being obscure than famous.

I am gambling on the Doomstead Diner. It is not a popular site...but it is a known site...and it is a site high rollers pass through and keep an eye on. I did. I dont need to be famous. Just to be heard. If what I say is good, it will spread itself.

Passing out..... about....now
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on April 04, 2018, 12:49:30 AM
One last thought before I pass out .... and dont talk to anyone for a couple weeks.

Numbers is nothing. Placement is everything. That is why I pestered you folks for the last year. "Devious bastard that I am".

I learned alot from that Youtube video. Before it, no one took bikes seriously in the prepper world. Now it is common knowledge. In fact, It became a trend.(My god. Tacticool bikes. Sorry about that. I will try to fix that) I have done much from the shadows. I hear myself quoted in the prepper world...A LOT. No one knows it was me that said it, I got the info where it needed to go...then people talked. I recently did a very personal blog on PTSD and prepping. It didnt get very many views. But last week, a passed around "survival blogger" talked about PTSD in family members in a survival group. I had hit my mark. People will never know it was because of me. Me is not important. Just the info.

So, I chose to be a clown on the edges. People only read me because I am outrageous. Nearly untouchable and unsharable... but if the right people hear what I am saying... in spite of the rock star clown suit, It will change the narrative. I probably do better being obscure than famous.

I am gambling on the Doomstead Diner. It is not a popular site...but it is a known site...and it is a site high rollers pass through and keep an eye on. I did. I dont need to be famous. Just to be heard. If what I say is good, it will spread itself.

Passing out..... about....now

Glad you passed through and glad you're a gambler.  :icon_sunny:

The Diner isn't huge,, but it does get decent traffic from the Doomer Community.  We have been around quite a while while other blogs have folded, and we never run out of collapse topics to talk about here!  :icon_mrgreen:  In fact, I need to go look for some Collapse Newz to post...

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: jdwheeler42 on April 04, 2018, 06:19:00 AM
                  That there is the absolute minimum to survival in a rapidly changing and highly fucked up world, where a mass die off is quickly approaching. It is truly daunting. You now only have two options. Party like it is 1999 (or 2007) or make a decision that you are going to try to save yourself and others. If you choose the latter, it is NOW time to get busy. Not tomorrow. Not when the Shit Hits The Fan. Now. Yesterday would better.
Quite frankly, my primary philosophy is "Eat, Drink, and Be Merry, for Tomorrow We Die".  And prep just IN CASE we don't, not IN ORDER to survive.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: jdwheeler42 on April 04, 2018, 06:37:43 AM
It's time consuming work to produce something with good pacing, production values etc.  I am sure Mr. Primitive Survival aka the Mute from Oz has a team of people who are shooting his vids and then editing them.  I'd really like to find out who is behind that operation.

For basics though, a decent HD camera and a tripod are enough to get raw footage, and then there are reasonable and relatively EZ to learn video editing tools you can buy as well.  Some open source freebies here also.  I have great equipment, sadly I am not in good enough health these days to go out and do my Stealth Van living vids.  :(
Nope, the Primitive Survival guy shoots and edits all his own videos... and that's a major part of the reason why his output is about one 5-10 minute video per month.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: jdwheeler42 on April 04, 2018, 07:32:06 AM
As much as i might want to high five another canadian, Canadian Prepper gets no respect from me. He is just another Yuppy Scum Survivalist. As shit as Nuttin Fancy or that ilk. 100 and 1% useless. Just because he is a Canadian doesn't mean Justin Bieber...or Canadian Prepper, has anything to say. As a Canadian, It is my duty to say, "Sorry". Sorry for Justin Bieber, Residencial schools, Celine Dion....and Canadian Prepper.
I'm not saying anything about the value of either Canadian Prepper's or Mr. Primitive Survival's shows, I'm just pointing out they reach a lot more people than us bloggers do.  Utoob vids can go Viral also, blogs about never do.
If you're looking for value in a Utoob channel, I would suggest Wranglerstar.  He doesn't even call himself a Prepper or a Survivalist, he self-identifies as a Modern Homesteader.  He is actually living the life, more or less, and puts up videos on a more-than-daily basis.

For a real survival expert, I suggest Christopher Nyerges and his School of Self-Reliance (and not just because I took one of his classes back in the early 1990s).  He has genuine experience being homeless for an extended period of time, so his advice is not just theoretical.  It is, however, California-centric.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Surly1 on April 04, 2018, 07:37:41 AM
It's time consuming work to produce something with good pacing, production values etc.  I am sure Mr. Primitive Survival aka the Mute from Oz has a team of people who are shooting his vids and then editing them.  I'd really like to find out who is behind that operation.

For basics though, a decent HD camera and a tripod are enough to get raw footage, and then there are reasonable and relatively EZ to learn video editing tools you can buy as well.  Some open source freebies here also.  I have great equipment, sadly I am not in good enough health these days to go out and do my Stealth Van living vids.  :(
Nope, the Primitive Survival guy shoots and edits all his own videos... and that's a major part of the reason why his output is about one 5-10 minute video per month.

As someone who does this for a living, I can tell you that it takes about two weeks of time to produce a competent 30 second spot. Of that ten working days, one is devoted to shooting and one or so to editing. Maybe a half day for revisions. The rest of the time is spent in planning: client needs assessment,, script writing, script revisions, researching stock footage, graphics templates, library music, etc. 

You can do it the other way around, especially for documentaries, and I have, but that is a ballbuster.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on April 04, 2018, 11:55:56 AM
Utoob is for most people and reading about prepping is mostly for a few old guys like me, I guess.

I never watch videos unless I'm trying to work on something I haven't  fixed or fooled with before, like modern auto mechanics, which has gotten way more tricky since the advent of electronics.

I like to read about what folks are doing to try to live sustainably, but even more I like the part of it you get from reading someone who can tell their personal  story well. I enjoy reading C5 because it's real and honest and not a bunch of pretentious bullshit.

The one video I made about my ZENA welder build and about DC generators cured me of making videos. No more. Not my thing.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on April 04, 2018, 12:33:57 PM
Utoob is for most people and reading about prepping is mostly for a few old guys like me, I guess.

I never watch videos unless I'm trying to work on something I haven't  fixed or fooled with before, like modern auto mechanics, which has gotten way more tricky since the advent of electronics.

I like to read about what folks are doing to try to live sustainably, but even more I like the part of it you get from reading someone who can tell their personal  story well. I enjoy reading C5 because it' real and honest and not a bunch of pretentious bullshit.

The one video I made about my ZENA welder build and about DC generators cured me of making videos. No more. Not my thing.

I like recording the vids, editing them I don't like very much.  I try to get everything done in one take if possible, but you can't really tackle a complex topic with good production values in one take.  Mainly though for me the reason I am not doing the videos is because I just don't have the energy for it right now.  Until I get the nourishment problem properly diagnosed and treated, I barely have energy to shuffle around the digs.

If you want to reach more people to "Save As Many As You Can" though, Utoob is the way to do it.  It's even better than writing books and you can do it for free.  If you get enough subscribers and views, you can even make money with it.  In the case of Canadian Prepper, all the cool techno devices he reviews to prep up with he gets from the manufacturers for free.  That by itself is a great value if you are working on a low budget overall.  Wouldn't it be nice if you got your Solar Panels or Wood Stove for your Doomstead for free?

RE
Title: C5 Builds a Wall
Post by: Guest on April 18, 2018, 02:30:30 AM


youtube-Logo-4gc2reddit-logoOff the keyboard of Category5



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Published on The Doomstead Diner on April 18, 2018



Image result for woven willow fence



Discuss this article at the Doomsteading Table inside the Diner



 






 



 



 



 





C5 Says, Build Me A Wall! Permaculture Style






wall 1



With your rather obsessive host, Category5.



I try to do one or two, ridiculous, over the top, excessive projects each year that make people question my sanity. This year is no different. What challenge have I presented for myself this season? I plan on building an impenetrable fence.  Acres and achres of fence. My only building material? Willow Sticks. Oh, And I only have about a month and a half of the right weather to do it in. And…I will have to wait about five years to see the results. No biggy.






Why would I do this to myself? It has been an ongoing, ESSENTIAL problem to solve. A task for the Dark Green Mountain Survival Research Centre. How does one make essential fencing in a time when, post peak industrial empire, store bought, expensive, fencing is no longer available, either because of an abrupt stop to resource and energy input supplies to create such products…or… a slow hollowing out of the economy where you can no longer afford to buy such products… or… of Bank Overlord debt financing  to buy such items dries up or collapses… or… one day you just wake up and say to yourself, “Well, its just stupid to get into umteen thousands of dollars in debt for something that is just going to break down anyhow, while I am spending my life at a job I don’t want to be at to pay for it all”.



Fixing fencing in the spring is an, every year, heavy duty job for any farmer. I have fence repair to do myself… in my ample free time. Snark.



I really am working my way around to talking about solving fencing issues buy growing a LIVING FENCE. Specifically, a WILLOW fence, One where the materials are free and will get stronger over time while other fences get weaker over time. A post apocalyptic WALL. “We Are Going To Build A Wall”. I am going all Trump on your ass this year without spending the gross national product, Permaculture Style. Too bad I cant make the U.S. pay for my wall.



I’m also going all Survival advice from Monty Python, this round.






So, I have an impossible job to do, armed only with a herring.



Well, a herring, loppers, clippers, a hammer and a roof rack on our disposable Honda Civic, to tie all the willow onto from ditches, far and wide (more on turning a small car into a truck another time)



(April 6th) Its spring. At least what passes for spring here. The sun has come out today. I step out of the house, survey the doomstead, take a deep breath and say….



“What a shit hole!”



With the snow gone, everything is brown as nothing is growing yet, I notice every pile of recyclable materials, indistinguishable from garbage piles, everything that didn’t get put away, every good idea that didnt quite work, everything that broke, rotted, rusted or got over grown, all the wasted effort that now needs to be fixed, moved out of the way, torn down, replaced or thrown out.



I begin to throw myself at a project, then go, “Its too fucking cold. I’m going back inside”.



I know I need to psyche myself up. I know I need to go from a winter full stop to hitting the ground running, hoping this isn’t the year I give myself a heart attack  or injure myself badly.



We have gone through the snow season, are about to move into the mud season, followed by the biting bug season and then the too hot to do shit season. The fall is the only really nice season here when it would be nice to be all nature guy but that is also the busy season of harvest and the race to prepare for the next 6 months of cold.



Now, doesn’t going back to nature sound all romantic.



We have interviewed alot of people that wanted to live here. We often heard, “I just want to live a simple life, close to nature, and eat healthy food”.



We roll our eyes and think to ourselves, “Well, that would be nice. Maybe we should move to the city where that idea is appealing, go on camping trips a few times a year and have parks to walk in, while going to trendy, financially successful farmers markets that only work because of the excess wealth.”



Oh, stop being all judgy, Other C5. You had the same romanticism before Mother Nature stuck her strap on up the poop shoot of life.



I hear ya, Other C5.



(April 8th) I cut willow today. Its seems a bit early but its going to be a huge job



cuttings



(April 9th) Another Day. Another Snow Storm. Good thing MrsC5 moved the car down to the road last night… and that the high, destructive winds hit further north. Its one of the reasons we are doing this. Global Warming doesn’t necessarily mean warm. It means a complete rearrangement of existing weather patterns… and fierce winds, while they do it. We are building wind breaks around the garden. Micro Climates.



So. Why willow, instead of more thorny plants to keep the ninjas out?



One word. Salicylic Acid. OK, thats two words. And Fast… and Free  . FOUR. Four words… Ha, Ah Ah…






(C5 likes FREE. Nothing is free though. Its all sweat equity)



Salicylic Acid is found in Willow Bark. Preppers will know it works like aspirin. I have had to use this in the bush a few times, myself, to solve debilitating headaches. I always seem to forget something essential when heading away from civilization. But that is not why we are planting it. It also acts as a ROOTING HORMONE. This makes it quickly want to throw roots out. Some people will put an aspirin in plant cuttings to trick it into rooting. I don’t have time for that. I just want to drive them deep in the ground and walk away. The other reason, is I find willow growing in ditches everywhere. The road crews have to cut them back often. You can easily identify them, first thing in the spring, by the Pussy Willows. See the photos at the top of the page. That was a test plot I put in before going over seas. Proof it works. Later in the year, you can identify it by spear head shaped leaves.



I also put it in other areas that didn’t work. They had been out competed by other weeds. This was not a fail. It just taught me that I need to weed around it until it is firmly established. We want to do this job, first thing in the spring, while the ground is wet, So I can drive the cuttings at least two feet in the soil,  so the roots have time to establish, with plenty of summer grow time. Also, because this is the time of year when it is in a race to out grow its competition. We “Stressed” the plant by cutting it, and this has put it into over drive, trying to save its own life. Sort of like Adrenalin in humans. You wont make its life easier by waiting for leaves and keeping them on before or after planting. These don’t seem to make it. They are only focusing on leaf growth at this point, not roots and wood growth.



In the years to come, we will then bend them around each other so it becomes like a chain link fence, that you just can’t push trough.



woven



(Not mine. Stolen from alastairheseltine.com)



Clearly, you are not going to see the fence in this article. Instead, we will keep coming back to it in future articles to see how it is doing. If it fails, you get to watch it fail. Thus the Research part of Dark Green Mountain.



Now, before I lose the interest of the Manly Men out there that are getting distracted by wanting to go out and shoot bunnies, this is essential survival training for TEOTWAWKI (thats, The End Of The World As We Know It, for newbies). If you actually want to harvest anything in the garden you planted, first you need to keep the deer out. They can jump 8ft fences, so you want to go higher. The two legged garden thieves are also an issue, especially once people get hungry. This should also be a good way to HIDE a garden. Out of sight, out of mind. And hide yourself, while we are at it. You may be Rambo, but you have got to sleep sometime. If you like sleep, its best to do it in an enclosure others cant get into to catch you sleeping. At the absolute minimum, you can use these barriers to force people to come at you, from a direction you can see them coming. A visual barrier also defeats most snipers… or just Looky Lue’s.



Visual barriers like this are common in other parts of the world. See my article, Sharp and Pointy Things.  https://darkgreenmountainsurvivalresearchcentre.wordpress.com/2017/04/21/survival-advice-from-south-america-part-2-sharp-and-pointy-things/



But, in the Caribbean, its common to see this, for the same purpose.  Its the most common fencing material. Its sort of unsightly to north amerikans, prissy fucks that we are…but it does have the added bonus of that, if you move, you can take your fence with you. Chattel fencing. steel wall



Now, a Palisade seems like a good idea for the apocalypse. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palisade  but it is a ridiculous amount of work, without having an army of people to build it, and it will rot rather fast. I had given this idea some thought but realised it was suicidal to try. Why not let your your palisade grow itself… and grow stronger over time.



Besides, Nothing invites a police raid or mental health evaluation, like building a palisade. A tactical hedge on the other hand, makes you a gardening enthusiast.



Now, for the Technical Tactical Growies out there, instead of the Tactical Tyke Shooters and looters… I mentioned Micro Climates near the top. Besides stopping heavy winds, It will also create summer shade around the edges  for shade loving plants, while reducing summer evaporation. It will also make for happy pollinators and bug loving birdies to add there own squirty fertilizer to the soil. And it should trap some of  the days heat on your garden into the night.



Willow is also good for bank stabilization, terrace building and stopping water erosion. The roots hold the ground together. All issues related to the new weather and rain bombs that have been showing up the last few years. If you are going to get a year of rain in 24 hrs, holding the ground in place is pretty important.



Now, buy the time you read this, its probably too late for you to take on an obsessive build like this. Besides, once it is in…its in. Instead, its not too late to just stick 3 or 4  willow stakes in the ground and just do the permaculture process of Observing. Observe what nature does. What it likes. What it doesnt. Next time you need a trellis stick, you can just walk over and cut yourself one.



(April 15. Still Waiting for the ground to thaw. Melt. Unfreeze. Gathering willow furiously, though)



I have built myself a few Hadrian’s Walls before. Nothing new to me about this build or solving this fencing issue.



hadrians wall 1



hadrians wall 2



5 years later, its getting close to full breakdown. I am in a race to get the willow fence going before it is completely gone. I’ll save you the photos. It looks like shit now (F.Y.I. Recycled electric wire, barbed wire and  recycled clothes line tops the fence about 9 ft.



Then I did an even more obsessive build. The historic Dead Hedge. Real heart attack inspiring job.



Before



DH Before 1



After



DH Bass Akward 4



This is being taken back even faster and we will do a full report, “The Grateful Dead Hedge, Redux” soon. After good and heated discussions with Permies, we came to the conclusion that the dead hedge was good to use wile getting a Live Hedge going.. The Dead Hedge eventually becomes a Hugal mound that feeds and provides stored moisture for the living hedge



(April 17- Another day, another Franken-Storm. This is a storm stretching, quite literally, from Cuba to Cana’duh. It stretches a quarter of the planet. Its huge. Luckily, we are getting the rainy edge, instead of freezing sleet, further east and north. This should speed up ground thaw so I can start pounding willow stakes into the soil. But this weather gives me the opportunity to stop cutting willow today and do some writing)



I got a note from one of my relatives. It read-



I read your recent post and I have a comment concerning your pussies.  For the last 5 years I’ve become very knowledgeable in bioengineering techniques including live staking which is the foundation for your live fences.  I have used this method on just about every project I’ve worked on over the past 5 years for bank stabilization. I’ve also monitored the success/failure of these techniques, so I know what works and what doesn’t.  You said you are going to start collecting willows in the spring.  Be careful here.  Willows should be harvested in their dormant stage, so you should be collecting them in late winter early spring. You will need to get those willows into the ground as soon as it thaws.  I’m assuming you chose 3′ lengths because that’s how long your hole starter (rebar, dowel, stick) is and you intend to insert 3/4 to 7/8 of the length of willow into the ground.  This will only leave about a few inches (minimum of 2 buds worth) of the willow sticking out of the ground.  The deeper you go, the higher success as the willow tips will reach into the water table.  If you know your groundwater table is shallow then you can aim for more shallow willow insertions. We typically use 2 m long willows. If you want to make sure your willows don’t develop disease, paint the top of the willow (to seal the top cut wound, if you have one) and soak the bottom of the willow in root hormone to promote rooting activity.



Thanks T. I’ll post this a little earlier than intended so that other folks have time to do some test plots. To start, one of the reasons I chose willow was the Salicylic Acid. A rooting hormone. Most sticks you put in the ground will throw leaves and seem to grow…then be dead by fall. No roots. Willow, on the otherhand, will throw roots if left in water. I saw this all the time, back when I used to build bent willow chairs. If your test plots fail, you may try to start the plants in buckets, and toss in some aspirins to speed things up. Same chemical. Willow bark can also be used to trick other plants into rooting. We don’t have long, strait willow here so I work with what I got. Longer will be better, to face weed competition. Willow seems to be very forgiving. I have accidentally planted some upside down and they still grew. But the longer the better and I am doing them as stakes so I can just hammer them into the ground… as deep as possible. Im expecting a certain fail rate. I will have to come in next year and fill in any spaces that did not take. I’ll use longer stakes any place they will face obvious competition.



We will cut this short, because you don’t need to see photos of sticks in the ground, and you may want to go out and cut some before the leaves start. Even if you are a bit late, in warmer climates, go give it a try and observe. Willow is pretty forgiving.



Now, this isn’t supposed to the authoritative post on live fences. It’s just to point you in the right direction. Now you know such a thing exists. You can type, LIVING WILLOW FENCE, into your search engine, go to IMAGES and see lots of different versions… around the world. https://www.ecosia.org/images?q=living+willow+fence   There are lots of ways to do this. England and the rest of Europe have been using hedge rows and live fences forever. In fact, some parts of Hadrian’s Wall are a boarder of hawthorn because the Roman occupiers drove spikes of hawthorn into the ground to defend themselves from… everybody else who didn’t want to be occupied. Sort of like the U.S. Empire Storm Troopers today. A few of the spikes grew and spread. Hawthorn is pretty rare to root though… which is why we are starting with willow. I’ll try to trick some hawthorn into rooting, some other time.



Another version of this is “Hedge Laying”






During WWII, European hedge rows were problematic enough that they built specialized tank attachments to cut through them… since regular tanks could not get through them.



Once this latest storm breaks, its time for me to start hammering in stakes. At least I hope the ground is ready. We’ll see.



(One last afterthought before posting. Willow can also be used to help terrace junk land without rock walls…and help keep rivers or streams in place https://darkgreenmountainsurvivalresearchcentre.wordpress.com/2017/09/14/c5-on-terracing-junk-land-survival-advice-from-pre-inca-south-america-part-13-permaculturepermanent-culture/ )



This is my last, obsessive, Hadrian’s Wall, fence build. Its for all the marbles. Not just my garden. I’m putting up defensive barriers, as time and willow cuttings allow. I’ll soon be too old to build any more fences. I want to get old, watching my palisade grow.



So… get out there and build yourself a tank proof, sniper scuttling, Super Storm resistant wall. Plant like your life and your children’s lives depends on it. Because it does.



——



Since people have been mentioning the Canada part of DGM, why not have DJ-C5 end this with some Retro Canadiana. Nothing is more Canadian than RUSH. It leaves me thinking of a future of Climate Refugees.






O.K. Well, that was depressing, even for the Dark Green Mountain.



So, lets make this more inspirational.



Two good Holy Grail moments deserves another. Rather good, Survival advice from Monty Python.






I sure could use an anarcho syndicate commune. Or more peasants. Whatever works. I’m leaning towards peasants at the moment.





(Thanks, D.B. for the donation and kind words)



If you would like to give a Tip for services rendered or to support the cause, go here. https://www.paypal.com/donate/?token=MHI6RXIMnpmep-_sLNw_SK10fPfNKw2G24O8SOpLN3cKo-l-imCdw5inPYaBQMkbZFaOnm&country.x=CA&locale.x=CA   All “Tips” go towards material costs for future experiments.



 



 



 



 





 



 



 



 





Title: Re: C5 Builds a Wall
Post by: RE on April 18, 2018, 03:32:37 AM
What this article really demonstrates is just how futile the "Independent Doomstead" run by just a couple of people or even a couple families really is.  You just don't have enough physical help around to do all the necessary tasks, and the bigger the Doomstead the more overwhelming it becomes.  This just covers the Fencing problem!  Then there is the problem of all those varmints wanting to raid your Chicken Coop.  Then getting all those piggies fed and cleaning out the slop and making sure the pump is still working so they have some water.  Then you have to milk the cows or the goats, and churning butter or cheese making are very time consuming tasks too!  Gotta can all the veggies after harvest too, don't wanna starve over the winter.  HTF could you possibly get all this done by yourself?  ???   :icon_scratch:

So we roll back around to the idea that what you REALLY need for this type of Project and Research Center is a SUN Community (http://sun4living.com/).  However, here we roll back around to another old problem, which is people getting along with people and working together on such a project.  C5 in another article mentioned that the folks who live around him are basically rubes, the Great White North equivalent of Rednecks I imagine.  Also that most of the people in the Permie Community are thoroughly unrealistic and wouldn't last a week doing all the work involved to keep a totally off-grid Doomstead running.  ::)

Then, post-SHTF Day, you of course have all those pesky security problems to deal with...  You know, the Zombies and the local Gestapo and the local National Guard troop, etc.

(https://media1.giphy.com/media/C8WUfEDHQDdGU/giphy.gif)
BUT...we ALSO know if we occasionally read the Millenial Commentariat on r/collapse that there are numerous Millenials floating around out there living in mom's basement playing games and sexting on their Iphones and making enough money as a Starbucks Barrista with a Ph.D. in Biochemistry to buy some Ganja who (at least in theory) would love to find some way off the Rat Wheel of Industrial Civilization.

So the real challenge here is not in building fences from Willow.  It is figuring out how to bring these people together on Doomsteads we know already exist and make the community actually WORK.  I certainly have not figured this problem out, but new ideas are always :hi: .

RE
Title: Re: C5 Builds a Wall
Post by: Nearingsfault on April 18, 2018, 04:32:25 AM
What this article really demonstrates is just how futile the "Independent Doomstead" run by just a couple of people or even a couple families really is.  You just don't have enough physical help around to do all the necessary tasks, and the bigger the Doomstead the more overwhelming it becomes.  This just covers the Fencing problem!  Then there is the problem of all those varmints wanting to raid your Chicken Coop.  Then getting all those piggies fed and cleaning out the slop and making sure the pump is still working so they have some water.  Then you have to milk the cows or the goats, and churning butter or cheese making are very time consuming tasks too!  Gotta can all the veggies after harvest too, don't wanna starve over the winter.  HTF could you possibly get all this done by yourself?  ???   :icon_scratch:

So we roll back around to the idea that what you REALLY need for this type of Project and Research Center is a SUN Community (http://sun4living.com/).  However, here we roll back around to another old problem, which is people getting along with people and working together on such a project.  C5 in another article mentioned that the folks who live around him are basically rubes, the Great White North equivalent of Rednecks I imagine.  Also that most of the people in the Permie Community are thoroughly unrealistic and wouldn't last a week doing all the work involved to keep a totally off-grid Doomstead running.  ::)

Then, post-SHTF Day, you of course have all those pesky security problems to deal with...  You know, the Zombies and the local Gestapo and the local National Guard troop, etc.

(https://media1.giphy.com/media/C8WUfEDHQDdGU/giphy.gif)
BUT...we ALSO know if we occasionally read the Millenial Commentariat on r/collapse that there are numerous Millenials floating around out there living in mom's basement playing games and sexting on their Iphones and making enough money as a Starbucks Barrista with a Ph.D. in Biochemistry to buy some Ganja who (at least in theory) would love to find some way off the Rat Wheel of Industrial Civilization.

So the real challenge here is not in building fences from Willow.  It is figuring out how to bring these people together on Doomsteads we know already exist and make the community actually WORK.  I certainly have not figured this problem out, but new ideas are always :hi: .

RE
The challenge is maintaining the skills in the hands long enough to find a group who find them of value. The willow fencing is a great example of this. Useful and once established low energy. I have a good wet area with lots of poplar and willow I'll try a variation of this this year. The trick will be keeping the beaver from eating it!. Maybe a "crop" of beaver.  I have fairly high standards I admit but my problem with community to this point has been finding people who can pull their own weight and not just consume all your resources. Shelter, food, clothing, time,expectation of renumeration ;D Its hard f$%king work and not for everyone. It's part of the reason i play with my old machines at this time of the collapse game. They amplify my ability to do things to set the ground work for maintaining a handmade world and replace the human horsepower that may one day come. The population needs more severe shocks before it wakes up and accepts the physical challenges of this life.
Cheers,  David B.
Title: Re: C5 Builds a Wall
Post by: RE on April 18, 2018, 04:45:48 AM
The population needs more severe shocks before it wakes up and accepts the physical challenges of this life.

That's probably true, but it in no way resolves the problem of how you would set up Community post-Collapse.  Then it's even harder.  You don't have the internet to communicate and network with.  You don't have the ease of travel by car to get to a remote Doomstead like yours or C5s in the Great White North.  How would potential community members even know where the place was?

This has to get done BEFORE Collapse, not after SHTF Day has arrived.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on April 18, 2018, 06:02:19 AM
Nothing like a good project to get one's butt in gear for Spring. I've thought about trying my hand at hedge building around the canyon house. Too rocky on most of the stead, and willows are sparse. I probably could find a few little ones on the creek. Pretty sure I've seen one or two.

I wish I could build living fences. I have a bunch of half built fences, waiting on inspiration, money, time, weather that is neither too hot nor too cold, etc. I haven't worked on anything but e-fence in the last year.

Bamboo would work here, if you watered it. I should ask LD what to plant.

Spring is almost over here. Very beautiful, but a dry winter means a summer of drought conditions. The creek is dry already, except for the deep holes. Spring is a fake, soon to be exposed as such, as the greenery quickly fades. Send rain, please.
Title: Re: C5 Builds a Wall
Post by: cernunnos5 on April 18, 2018, 06:09:41 AM
What this article really demonstrates is just how futile the "Independent Doomstead" run by just a couple of people or even a couple families really is.  You just don't have enough physical help around to do all the necessary tasks, and the bigger the Doomstead the more overwhelming it becomes.  This just covers the Fencing problem!  Then there is the problem of all those varmints wanting to raid your Chicken Coop.  Then getting all those piggies fed and cleaning out the slop and making sure the pump is still working so they have some water.  Then you have to milk the cows or the goats, and churning butter or cheese making are very time consuming tasks too!  Gotta can all the veggies after harvest too, don't wanna starve over the winter.  HTF could you possibly get all this done by yourself?  ???   :icon_scratch:

So we roll back around to the idea that what you REALLY need for this type of Project and Research Center is a SUN Community (http://sun4living.com/).  However, here we roll back around to another old problem, which is people getting along with people and working together on such a project.  C5 in another article mentioned that the folks who live around him are basically rubes, the Great White North equivalent of Rednecks I imagine.  Also that most of the people in the Permie Community are thoroughly unrealistic and wouldn't last a week doing all the work involved to keep a totally off-grid Doomstead running.  ::)

Then, post-SHTF Day, you of course have all those pesky security problems to deal with...  You know, the Zombies and the local Gestapo and the local National Guard troop, etc.

(https://media1.giphy.com/media/C8WUfEDHQDdGU/giphy.gif)
BUT...we ALSO know if we occasionally read the Millenial Commentariat on r/collapse that there are numerous Millenials floating around out there living in mom's basement playing games and sexting on their Iphones and making enough money as a Starbucks Barrista with a Ph.D. in Biochemistry to buy some Ganja who (at least in theory) would love to find some way off the Rat Wheel of Industrial Civilization.

So the real challenge here is not in building fences from Willow.  It is figuring out how to bring these people together on Doomsteads we know already exist and make the community actually WORK.  I certainly have not figured this problem out, but new ideas are always :hi: .

RE
I'll get back to this latter in the day.
I just wanted to start by saying. I just shot a rabbit in my underwear.  Now, before anyone says, "How did the rabbit get in your underwear?" I was taking my morning pee and out the window was an escaped rabbit one of our failed, potencial community members had allowed to escape. Huge threat to the gardens. I would have hunted it in the very traditional manor. That is to say, shooting it through the screen window....but I didnt want to explain that to MrsC5. I got it from the greenhouse. Then I sat down for my morning smoke and coffee. Im still working my way through the coffee.... and MrsC5 has already cleaned it. I guess I should put pants on.

Great White North Hunter..... ::)
Title: Re: C5 Builds a Wall
Post by: RE on April 18, 2018, 06:21:05 AM
I just wanted to start by saying. I just shot a rabbit in my underwear.

Tighty Whities, Boxers or Eurotrash Bikini style?  What caliber gun?  Pistol or Rifle?  Big enough for a good lunch?

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on April 18, 2018, 06:22:51 AM
Monty Python showed up here the year I started college. (1974) Always a favorite, and my youngest, raised on VHS tapes of the shows and movies, knows all the lines. I was looking for that "repressed citizen" skit, but couldn't remember the tag line.  Reminds me of a certain Diner.

Thanks for the article btw.

http://www.youtube.com/v/weHNnsMY82A&fs=1
Title: A Brief Tutorial on Field Dressing Dead Rabbits killed in your Tighty Whities
Post by: RE on April 18, 2018, 06:29:03 AM
http://www.youtube.com/v/5Uj68y0pefo
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on April 18, 2018, 06:35:14 AM
I was gonna say, I have to admire Mrs. C5. Women who can skin wild game before morning coffee are not that thick on the ground these days.

MY other half is skying out to NYC for the weekend  to visit singer daughter and her husband. I get to spend the weekend in Pig-landia. I will kill and skin a couple of piglets if I have time. Buying a new small freezer is on my to-do list.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on April 18, 2018, 06:54:16 AM
I was gonna say, I have to admire Mrs. C5. Women who can skin wild game before morning coffee are not that thick on the ground these days.

MY other half is skying out to NYC for the weekend  to visit singer daughter and her husband. I get to spend the weekend in Pig-landia. I will kill and skin a couple of piglets if I have time. Buying a new small freezer is on my to-do list.

Another DIY Project for you.  Build a Walk-In Freezer run on 12V.  :icon_sunny:

http://www.youtube.com/v/zHUM_voEFhA

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on April 18, 2018, 07:14:48 AM
I'm at work. I'll check the video later. I've looked at some various homemade coolers.

Something like an old ice cream truck box would be the thing. Maybe earth shelter it. They have controls you can buy to turn a window unit AC into a proper cooling unit. I have met farmers who have done this. I don't need one. I'm looking at one of these.

(https://images.samsclubresources.com/is/image/samsclub/0005846580346_A?$img_size_380x380$)

https://www.samsclub.com/sams/igloo-9-cu-chest-freezer/prod20960100.ip (https://www.samsclub.com/sams/igloo-9-cu-chest-freezer/prod20960100.ip)




Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on April 18, 2018, 07:24:43 AM
I'm at work. I'll check the video later. I've looked at some various homemade coolers.

Something like an old ice cream truck box would be the thing. Maybe earth shelter it. They have controls you can buy to turn a window unit AC into a proper cooling unit. I have met farmers who have done this. I don't need one. I'm looking at one of these.

https://www.samsclub.com/sams/igloo-9-cu-chest-freezer/prod20960100.ip (https://www.samsclub.com/sams/igloo-9-cu-chest-freezer/prod20960100.ip)

The vid is one of those modified air conditioner units.  You've likely already seen similar.

Those Chinese manufactured freezers on sale at Sam's Club are definitely less work and quite cheap.  9 cu ft isn't much space though with as many piggies as you need to send to the Great Beyond.  ::)

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on April 18, 2018, 09:21:39 AM
I would have to see the wattage. There is no way that room cooler makes sense unless you need a walk in. Way cheaper to modify the chest freezer with a beer keg thermostat and turn it into a fridge. A modified sign wave inverter instead of the expensive dc units....
Title: Re: C5 Builds a Wall
Post by: Surly1 on April 18, 2018, 09:25:41 AM
What this article really demonstrates is just how futile the "Independent Doomstead" run by just a couple of people or even a couple families really is.  You just don't have enough physical help around to do all the necessary tasks, and the bigger the Doomstead the more overwhelming it becomes.  This just covers the Fencing problem!  Then there is the problem of all those varmints wanting to raid your Chicken Coop.  Then getting all those piggies fed and cleaning out the slop and making sure the pump is still working so they have some water.  Then you have to milk the cows or the goats, and churning butter or cheese making are very time consuming tasks too!  Gotta can all the veggies after harvest too, don't wanna starve over the winter.  HTF could you possibly get all this done by yourself?  ???   :icon_scratch:

So we roll back around to the idea that what you REALLY need for this type of Project and Research Center is a SUN Community (http://sun4living.com/).  However, here we roll back around to another old problem, which is people getting along with people and working together on such a project.  C5 in another article mentioned that the folks who live around him are basically rubes, the Great White North equivalent of Rednecks I imagine.  Also that most of the people in the Permie Community are thoroughly unrealistic and wouldn't last a week doing all the work involved to keep a totally off-grid Doomstead running.  ::)

Then, post-SHTF Day, you of course have all those pesky security problems to deal with...  You know, the Zombies and the local Gestapo and the local National Guard troop, etc.

(https://media1.giphy.com/media/C8WUfEDHQDdGU/giphy.gif)
BUT...we ALSO know if we occasionally read the Millenial Commentariat on r/collapse that there are numerous Millenials floating around out there living in mom's basement playing games and sexting on their Iphones and making enough money as a Starbucks Barrista with a Ph.D. in Biochemistry to buy some Ganja who (at least in theory) would love to find some way off the Rat Wheel of Industrial Civilization.

So the real challenge here is not in building fences from Willow.  It is figuring out how to bring these people together on Doomsteads we know already exist and make the community actually WORK.  I certainly have not figured this problem out, but new ideas are always :hi: .

RE
The challenge is maintaining the skills in the hands long enough to find a group who find them of value. The willow fencing is a great example of this. Useful and once established low energy. I have a good wet area with lots of poplar and willow I'll try a variation of this this year. The trick will be keeping the beaver from eating it!. Maybe a "crop" of beaver.  I have fairly high standards I admit but my problem with community to this point has been finding people who can pull their own weight and not just consume all your resources. Shelter, food, clothing, time,expectation of renumeration ;D Its hard f$%king work and not for everyone. It's part of the reason i play with my old machines at this time of the collapse game. They amplify my ability to do things to set the ground work for maintaining a handmade world and replace the human horsepower that may one day come. The population needs more severe shocks before it wakes up and accepts the physical challenges of this life.
Cheers,  David B.

This is just the POV of one superannuated, super-opinionated  one-handed fuck with a bad attitude, but this thread, and C5's article which spurred it, are some of the best stuff I've read around here lately. This forum lights up (for me) when we get the first hand reports full of trial, error and good humor from C5, Eddie, David B. et al. C5's experience with community echoes past conversations we've had before.  Nothing in our culture prepares us for communal responsibility or experience.  320 million Rugged Individualists we are, special snowflakes all.

QOTD nominee #1:
Quote from: David B
I have fairly high standards I admit but my problem with community to this point has been finding people who can pull their own weight and not just consume all your resources. Shelter, food, clothing, time,expectation of renumeration ;D Its hard f$%king work and not for everyone.

QOTD nominee #2:
Quote from: C5
We have interviewed a lot of people that wanted to live here. We often heard, I just want to live a simple life, close to nature, and eat healthy food.

QOTD nominee #3:
Quote from: RE
...we ALSO know if we occasionally read the Millenial Commentariat on r/collapse that there are numerous Millenials floating around out there living in mom's basement playing games and sexting on their Iphones and making enough money as a Starbucks Barrista with a Ph.D. in Biochemistry to buy some Ganja who (at least in theory) would love to find some way off the Rat Wheel of Industrial Civilization. So the real challenge here is not in building fences from Willow.  It is figuring out how to bring these people together on Doomsteads we know already exist and make the community actually WORK.

And then there's Eddie Wastin' Away Again in Mangalitskaville. Good stuff.

A good day on the forum.

Typing this with one hand is too much like work. Back to Lurkerville.
Title: Re: C5 Builds a Wall
Post by: RE on April 18, 2018, 09:32:22 AM
What this article really demonstrates is just how futile the "Independent Doomstead" run by just a couple of people or even a couple families really is.  You just don't have enough physical help around to do all the necessary tasks, and the bigger the Doomstead the more overwhelming it becomes.  This just covers the Fencing problem!  Then there is the problem of all those varmints wanting to raid your Chicken Coop.  Then getting all those piggies fed and cleaning out the slop and making sure the pump is still working so they have some water.  Then you have to milk the cows or the goats, and churning butter or cheese making are very time consuming tasks too!  Gotta can all the veggies after harvest too, don't wanna starve over the winter.  HTF could you possibly get all this done by yourself?  ???   :icon_scratch:

So we roll back around to the idea that what you REALLY need for this type of Project and Research Center is a SUN Community (http://sun4living.com/).  However, here we roll back around to another old problem, which is people getting along with people and working together on such a project.  C5 in another article mentioned that the folks who live around him are basically rubes, the Great White North equivalent of Rednecks I imagine.  Also that most of the people in the Permie Community are thoroughly unrealistic and wouldn't last a week doing all the work involved to keep a totally off-grid Doomstead running.  ::)

Then, post-SHTF Day, you of course have all those pesky security problems to deal with...  You know, the Zombies and the local Gestapo and the local National Guard troop, etc.

(https://media1.giphy.com/media/C8WUfEDHQDdGU/giphy.gif)
BUT...we ALSO know if we occasionally read the Millenial Commentariat on r/collapse that there are numerous Millenials floating around out there living in mom's basement playing games and sexting on their Iphones and making enough money as a Starbucks Barrista with a Ph.D. in Biochemistry to buy some Ganja who (at least in theory) would love to find some way off the Rat Wheel of Industrial Civilization.

So the real challenge here is not in building fences from Willow.  It is figuring out how to bring these people together on Doomsteads we know already exist and make the community actually WORK.  I certainly have not figured this problem out, but new ideas are always :hi: .

RE
The challenge is maintaining the skills in the hands long enough to find a group who find them of value. The willow fencing is a great example of this. Useful and once established low energy. I have a good wet area with lots of poplar and willow I'll try a variation of this this year. The trick will be keeping the beaver from eating it!. Maybe a "crop" of beaver.  I have fairly high standards I admit but my problem with community to this point has been finding people who can pull their own weight and not just consume all your resources. Shelter, food, clothing, time,expectation of renumeration ;D Its hard f$%king work and not for everyone. It's part of the reason i play with my old machines at this time of the collapse game. They amplify my ability to do things to set the ground work for maintaining a handmade world and replace the human horsepower that may one day come. The population needs more severe shocks before it wakes up and accepts the physical challenges of this life.
Cheers,  David B.

This is just the POV of one superannuated, super-opinionated  one-handed fuck with a bad attitude, but this thread, and C5's article which spurred it, are some of the best stuff I've read around here lately. This forum lights up (for me) when we get the first hand reports full of trial, error and good humor from C5, Eddie, David B. et al. C5's experience with community echoes past conversations we've had before.  Nothing in our culture prepares us for communal responsibility or experience.  320 million Rugged Individualists we are, special snowflakes all.

QOTD nominee #1:
Quote from: David B
I have fairly high standards I admit but my problem with community to this point has been finding people who can pull their own weight and not just consume all your resources. Shelter, food, clothing, time,expectation of renumeration ;D Its hard f$%king work and not for everyone.

QOTD nominee #2:
Quote from: C5
We have interviewed a lot of people that wanted to live here. We often heard, I just want to live a simple life, close to nature, and eat healthy food.

QOTD nominee #3:
Quote from: RE
...we ALSO know if we occasionally read the Millenial Commentariat on r/collapse that there are numerous Millenials floating around out there living in mom's basement playing games and sexting on their Iphones and making enough money as a Starbucks Barrista with a Ph.D. in Biochemistry to buy some Ganja who (at least in theory) would love to find some way off the Rat Wheel of Industrial Civilization. So the real challenge here is not in building fences from Willow.  It is figuring out how to bring these people together on Doomsteads we know already exist and make the community actually WORK.

And then there's Eddie Wastin' Away Again in Mangalitskaville. Good stuff.

A good day on the forum.

Typing this with one hand is too much like work. Back to Lurkerville.

The Forum and the Blog are perking nicely with new perspectives.  :icon_sunny:

Try a voice recognition program until you get the cast off.  How long is that supposed to take?

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on April 18, 2018, 09:52:11 AM
I would have to see the wattage. There is no way that room cooler makes sense unless you need a walk in. Way cheaper to modify the chest freezer with a beer keg thermostat and turn it into a fridge. A modified sign wave inverter instead of the expensive dc units....

Depends how much meat you gotta put in storage of course.  If you got 15 piggies in need of a rapid ticket to the Great Beyond because feeding them is just getting too expensive, a 9 cu ft freezer is not going to do the trick.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on April 18, 2018, 10:13:47 AM
Then you have 3 chest freezers and turn them off when not needed. Cold Rooms unless purpose built are a energy pig....
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on April 18, 2018, 10:21:26 AM
Then you have 3 chest freezers and turn them off when not needed. Cold Rooms unless purpose built are a energy pig....

Well, it all depends on the space you need and how often you need it of course.  Also there are convenience factors involved.  With the freezers, to store the meat you're going to have to do a full butchery to pack it tight.  With a cold room, you can just gut and clean the pig and hang it up on a hook.

Eddie probably is not at the point he need a cold room, and he's talking about quitting the piggy bizness also.  So yea, the Chinese Freezer makes more sense.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Builds a Wall
Post by: Surly1 on April 18, 2018, 11:53:06 AM
Try a voice recognition program until you get the cast off.  How long is that supposed to take?

RE

I have a followup appt. tomorrow. Will know then.
I have voice rec on my Mac at home, and on my phone, but not during daytimes. Nosing a mouse around is OK; typing a bitch.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on April 18, 2018, 02:31:04 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfPTWlnxS18 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfPTWlnxS18)

Owwie.....owwie.......

I started the fence today. I now have a better idea of the job I face.

I am astounded at how little I accomplished.... and just how much I hurt.... Owwie...

I'll start my next round with Tylenol and codeine. This is going to be a long project. I have been using a breaker bar for starter holes. It sure helps...other than having to use a breaker bar. You can write on my epitaph, "He died on the wall" . If you dont hear from me again, you know what happened
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on April 18, 2018, 02:33:56 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfPTWlnxS18 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfPTWlnxS18)

Owwie.....owwie.......

I started the fence today. I now have a better idea of the job I face.

I am astounded at how little I accomplished.... and just how much I hurt.... Owwie...

I'll start my next round with Tylenol and codeine. This is going to be a long project. I have been using a breaker bar for starter holes. It sure helps...other than having to use a breaker bar. You can write on my epitaph, "He died on the wall" . If you dont hear from me again, you know what happened
how deep are you sinking them?
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on April 18, 2018, 02:54:25 PM
Im trying for 2ft but the ground doesnt always  cooperate. Still lots of frozen ground. Things are supposed to warm up quite a bit next week. I did find a good source of willow today. Its a bit further than I want to drive but it should be much faster to get it. Underneath large power lines, just off a highway. Always a great place for gathering. Everyone will be staring at me from the road though. That always leaves me ready for a conflict with people and takes away from just doing my thing in the woods.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on April 18, 2018, 03:18:03 PM
Ground is still frozen solid here. 12 inches of fresh snow and freezing rain 3 days ago. The roads dept slaughtered everything along the ditch line up to 20 ft back  3 years ago. My road front is low and wet so it's all poplar 3 to 6 ft 1-2 inch diameter. I've been pondering it a while. Probably would have stopped there if you had not written.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on April 18, 2018, 03:49:55 PM
I have been using a breaker bar for starter holes.

Here we use those to bust the limestone so we can dig post holes. The old school corner braces have mostly been replaced by the pre-welded units you can buy from various pipe yards, but you still have to dig holes to set them. I still use cross ties. I consider fence building to be  a way to commune with the spirit of my dead father, who was quite a hand at fence work. I miss him.

Fence posts are mostly T-posts now, which can be driven into the ground with powered drivers. I have a big expensive tractor driven post hole auger machine (Beltec) but I still have to clean and enlarge the holes....and I drive T-posts by hand.

I feel your pain.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on April 18, 2018, 05:16:14 PM
I don't suppose we can come up with a solution to the Community Problem so one aging Doomer doesn't have to put up miles of fencing? ???  :icon_scratch:

Here's a nice live willow entrance C5 can make to his Permi Garden:

(https://cdn.insteading.com/wp-content/uploads/assets/images/Blog-Building/Willow%20Hedges/82.jpg)

Here's a nice woven job he can use to fence in the whole property.  By himself, he'll be weaving his fingers raw until the Sun Goes Red Giant.  ::)

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f2/a9/ab/f2a9ab1839cbf076233c14c2b6a8ae4e.jpg)

RE
Title: C5 Walks into a Diner...: Live Willow Domes
Post by: RE on April 19, 2018, 02:27:31 AM
In all our conversations about Monolithic domes and Geodesic domes, I don't ever recall discussing using Live Willow Domes as building structures on your Doomstead.  Here's one that you could turn into a pretty nice Barn:

(http://naturalbuildingblog.com/wp-content/uploads/willow-structure.jpg)

Here is another more of a "Longhouse" design which could be housing for WWOOFERs helping to build more fencing around the Doomstead.

(http://m.mb-net.cz/assets/Image.ashx?id_org=9629&id_obrazky=201507)

Here's a more individual size abode

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZdrxpQp9I3I/TWqEtwfGjLI/AAAAAAAAAho/_ozFkPUYEyU/s1600/wovwn%2Bwillow%2B9%253A08.jpg)

You would of course need to do quite a bit of work on these things to be somewhat weather-proof.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...: Live Willow Domes
Post by: Surly1 on April 19, 2018, 03:59:19 AM
In all our conversations about Monolithic domes and Geodesic domes, I don't ever recall discussing using Live Willow Domes as building structures on your Doomstead.  Here's one that you could turn into a pretty nice Barn:

(http://naturalbuildingblog.com/wp-content/uploads/willow-structure.jpg)[/center]

Here is another more of a "Longhouse" design which could be housing for WWOOFERs helping to build more fencing around the Doomstead.

(http://m.mb-net.cz/assets/Image.ashx?id_org=9629&id_obrazky=201507)[/center]

Here's a more individual size abode

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZdrxpQp9I3I/TWqEtwfGjLI/AAAAAAAAAho/_ozFkPUYEyU/s1600/wovwn%2Bwillow%2B9%253A08.jpg)[/center]

You would of course need to do quite a bit of work on these things to be somewhat weather-proof.

RE

These are amazing. Amazing amount of work, too.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on April 19, 2018, 04:27:27 AM
I don't suppose we can come up with a solution to the Community Problem so one aging Doomer doesn't have to put up miles of fencing? ???  :icon_scratch:

Well, here is the subject to discuss. I had burnt out trying several versions, to no success. Still trying because of its sheer necessity. While in Lima, we realised if we are going to continue trying, we have to switch from our good anarchist principles... and switch all the way over to medieval landlordism.

I may not be able to join that discussion because I figure I will be severely brain dead for the next while. Holes to punch in the ground. Sticks to force in. Pain to endure.
Our fences wont look nearly as pretty. Different shapes and sizes. It has to grow itself for a few years before we have much to work with.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on April 19, 2018, 04:43:37 AM
I don't suppose we can come up with a solution to the Community Problem so one aging Doomer doesn't have to put up miles of fencing? ???  :icon_scratch:

Well, here is the subject to discuss. I had burnt out trying several versions, to no success. Still trying because of its sheer necessity. While in Lima, we realised if we are going to continue trying, we have to switch from our good anarchist principles... and switch all the way over to medieval landlordism.

I may not be able to join that discussion because I figure I will be severely brain dead for the next while. Holes to punch in the ground. Sticks to force in. Pain to endure.
Our fences wont look nearly as pretty. Different shapes and sizes. It has to grow itself for a few years before we have much to work with.

The subject has given me inspiration and material for a new article, which I just started.  However, it will probably be while before I publish it.  I have a couple of Sunday Brunch articles in the can already, and Eddie hopefully will produce another installment of his running series on the (former) Tropical Paradise Bugout Location of the Virgin Islands.  Hopefully also Surly's arm will get repaired and he will get his Fastball back to further hammer down on the collapsing political system of the FSoA.  ::)

Tentative provisional title for the new article is "Catch-22 for the Doomsteader".  You can guess what it is about.  ;D

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on April 19, 2018, 05:34:20 AM
I don't suppose we can come up with a solution to the Community Problem so one aging Doomer doesn't have to put up miles of fencing? ???  :icon_scratch:

Well, here is the subject to discuss. I had burnt out trying several versions, to no success. Still trying because of its sheer necessity. While in Lima, we realised if we are going to continue trying, we have to switch from our good anarchist principles... and switch all the way over to medieval landlordism.

I may not be able to join that discussion because I figure I will be severely brain dead for the next while. Holes to punch in the ground. Sticks to force in. Pain to endure.
Our fences wont look nearly as pretty. Different shapes and sizes. It has to grow itself for a few years before we have much to work with.

If you see this C5, drop me a link to your writing about your experiences in Peru.I assume there are some. When you have a quiet moment, LOL. We went to Peru and passed through Lima Of course) on our way to Iquitos. Just visiting, but it was an interesting trip. I'd go back in a heartbeat, but not to live there. I like the upper Amazon though.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on April 19, 2018, 05:44:06 AM
I don't suppose we can come up with a solution to the Community Problem so one aging Doomer doesn't have to put up miles of fencing? ???  :icon_scratch:

Well, here is the subject to discuss. I had burnt out trying several versions, to no success. Still trying because of its sheer necessity. While in Lima, we realised if we are going to continue trying, we have to switch from our good anarchist principles... and switch all the way over to medieval landlordism.

I may not be able to join that discussion because I figure I will be severely brain dead for the next while. Holes to punch in the ground. Sticks to force in. Pain to endure.
Our fences wont look nearly as pretty. Different shapes and sizes. It has to grow itself for a few years before we have much to work with.

If you see this C5, drop me a link to your writing about your experiences in Peru.I assume there are some. When you have a quiet moment, LOL. We went to Peru and passed through Lima Of course) on our way to Iquitos. Just visiting, but it was an interesting trip. I'd go back in a heartbeat, but not to live there. I like the upper Amazon though.

Just go to his blog.  Not hard to find.  You can start with this one:

https://darkgreenmountainsurvivalresearchcentre.wordpress.com/2017/04/18/survival-advice-from-south-america-part-1-the-arrival/

WARNING!:  C5 makes me look terse.  He is REALLY long winded.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on April 19, 2018, 05:46:50 AM
Ah, thanks. I have visited his blog before, but didn't save the link. I'll bookmark it.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on April 19, 2018, 06:19:30 AM
[quote

Just go to his blog.  Not hard to find.  You can start with this one:

https://darkgreenmountainsurvivalresearchcentre.wordpress.com/2017/04/18/survival-advice-from-south-america-part-1-the-arrival/

WARNING!:  C5 makes me look terse.  He is REALLY long winded.

RE
[/quote


]It helps to be intoxicated while reading. Try to think of it as short books.... and stream of consciousness, Hunter S Thompson  style. At the time, I was sick of shortening my thought process down to blog reply sized bits... and just decided to write down everything I was thinking. It is an exploration into my mind though. Beware, all ye who enter here. 
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on April 19, 2018, 06:35:02 AM
It helps to be intoxicated while reading. Try to think of it as short books.... and stream of consciousness, Hunter S Thompson  style.

Hunter Thompson is my literary mentor. :)  The Diner is a Gonzo Blog of Collapse and has been so since we put it up in 2012.  I take a lot of shit for this, but well, if you don't get it you can go fuck yourself. :P

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on April 19, 2018, 07:48:09 AM
Actually C5 is a good writer. He's a little obsessed with shipping containers and tin roofs, but I share his views on both those things. I'd like to have a shipping container or two myself, but good ones aren't what I consider cheap here. I guess it's all relative.

I have loved Hunter since about 1976 or so. Like a lot of us, I did a lot of drugs searching in my misspent youth. I have never, however, succumbed to the depravity of an ether binge. I discovered Hunter and Tom Robbins on the same day, and was subsequently  influenced a lot by both of them.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Surly1 on April 19, 2018, 08:01:00 AM
Actually C5 is a good writer. He's a little obsessed with shipping containers and tin roofs, but I share his views on both those things. I'd like to have a shipping container or two myself, but good ones aren't what I consider cheap here. I guess it's all relative.

I have loved Hunter since about 1976 or so. Like a lot of us, I did a lot of drugs searching in my misspent youth. I have never, however, succumbed to the depravity of an ether binge. I discovered Hunter and Tom Robbins on the same day, and was subsequently  influenced a lot by both of them.

 About the same for me. I remember reading fear and loathing first, and picking up a copy of Hells angels and then it was on. I read everything of HSTs that I could get my hands on.

C5 is certainly gonzo enough of a writer, and hes highly amusing. I really enjoy his many discursions. Plus the fact that hes out there actually doing this, and can still find the time to write about it its really impressive. My hat is off to him, and to you as well.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on April 19, 2018, 08:09:22 AM
Actually C5 is a good writer. He's a little obsessed with shipping containers and tin roofs,

Soooooo...... Once the weather warms up enough to stop doing the fence....... Im on to working on.....SHIPPING CONTAINERS.... for the rest of the year.  :evil4:

I'm getting the pace of this fence thing. Pacing. Work for 30-45 minutes. Take 30 off. I got muscle to rebuild after almost 2 years of slacking
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on April 19, 2018, 08:59:55 AM
Btw, C5, I have a metal roof, and my storage buildings (after I sell  the dirt to some greater fool) could be salvaged to provide a few thousand pieces of old-school galvanized roofing (and enough posts to build a lot of fence). I got that goin' for me.

Backhoe? Check. (Needs a new hose). I have a parts backhoe too. LOL. Vintage 1968 US made.

 I also have an almost new Korean tractor that I still owe 26K on. But I'm down below 1M debt now, and that won't go higher unless I find a great deal on some Canadian land or somethin' else valuable to hand to my clueless kids someday.

I worry about drought and heat. My place, which looks gorgeous right now in spite of climate change, is ever-so-slowly turning into a desert. The trees know this. The old ones have no trouble understanding what's happening. A few of them have given already up and their souls have gone to tree heaven.

Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on April 19, 2018, 09:18:50 AM
Btw, C5, I have a metal roof, and my storage buildings (after I sell  the dirt to some greater fool) could be salvaged to provide a few thousand pieces of old-school galvanized roofing (and enough posts to build a lot of fence). I got that goin' for me.

Backhoe? Check. (Needs a new hose). I have a parts backhoe too. LOL. Vintage 1968 US made.

 I also have an almost new Korean tractor that I still owe 26K on. But I'm down below 1M debt now, and that won't go higher unless I find a great deal on some Canadian land or somethin' else valuable to hand to my clueless kids someday.

I worry about drought and heat. My place, which looks gorgeous right now in spite of climate change, is ever-so-slowly turning into a desert. The trees know this. The old ones have no trouble understanding what's happening. A few of them have given already up and their souls have gone to tree heaven.

Moving all that gear up to the Great White North would be quite the challenge.  Not to mention expensive.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on April 19, 2018, 09:39:00 AM
I don't think I'll be moving anything. That'll fall on the next generation, most likely. But I could do it, if need be. It'd take 3 or four trips. I'd have to have a new truck and plenty of fuel.

Or maybe a train of covered wagons.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on April 19, 2018, 10:08:49 AM
I don't think I'll be moving anything. That'll fall on the next generation, most likely. But I could do it, if need be. It'd take 3 or four trips. I'd have to have a new truck and plenty of fuel.

Or maybe a train of covered wagons.

To begin with, to pull a tractor up there, you need a semi with a lowboy.  To pull all the galvanized sheet metal from the storage units, you'll need a flatbed and LD to strap them and tarp it.

Basically, that shit is not going anywhere, it stays where it lays, this generation or the next one.  By the next, the fuel to move it all won't be available to do it with or will be too expensive.

If you really were to buy land in the Great White North, you pretty much have to start from scratch and sell out everything you own in TX to some greater fool.  Hopefully you pull in enough to pay off all the debt before you make the Great Escape.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on April 19, 2018, 10:28:37 AM
I don't think I'll be moving anything. That'll fall on the next generation, most likely. But I could do it, if need be. It'd take 3 or four trips. I'd have to have a new truck and plenty of fuel.

Or maybe a train of covered wagons.

To begin with, to pull a tractor up there, you need a semi with a lowboy.  To pull all the galvanized sheet metal from the storage units, you'll need a flatbed and LD to strap them and tarp it.

Basically, that shit is not going anywhere, it stays where it lays, this generation or the next one.  By the next, the fuel to move it all won't be available to do it with or will be too expensive.

If you really were to buy land in the Great White North, you pretty much have to start from scratch and sell out everything you own in TX to some greater fool.  Hopefully you pull in enough to pay off all the debt before you make the Great Escape.

RE

Let me see...how to say this respectfully and without hurting your feelings...

Okay, you're full of shit.

I can pull everything I own or will own on my 18 ft flatbed or in my 3 yd dump trailer, with a 1 ton pick-up. No problem. trucker boy. I have lots of experience moving equipment.

I pulled my sawmill from East Texas, had a blow-out in Dallas, drove home, got my flatbed, drove back, winched it on to the trailer (by hand, in the middle of the night) and made it to the stead in time to work the next day.

I moved three operatories worth of dental equipment on an 18 ft flatbed, including room size cabinets that had to be double-decked to fit (a large plate glass  window had to be removed to get it all out of the building). I did this all solo, dude, and got it in storage without breaking anything.

If I want to move, it will be done. You can hide and watch. LOL.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on April 19, 2018, 10:44:50 AM
I don't think I'll be moving anything. That'll fall on the next generation, most likely. But I could do it, if need be. It'd take 3 or four trips. I'd have to have a new truck and plenty of fuel.

Or maybe a train of covered wagons.

To begin with, to pull a tractor up there, you need a semi with a lowboy.  To pull all the galvanized sheet metal from the storage units, you'll need a flatbed and LD to strap them and tarp it.

Basically, that shit is not going anywhere, it stays where it lays, this generation or the next one.  By the next, the fuel to move it all won't be available to do it with or will be too expensive.

If you really were to buy land in the Great White North, you pretty much have to start from scratch and sell out everything you own in TX to some greater fool.  Hopefully you pull in enough to pay off all the debt before you make the Great Escape.

RE

Let me see...how to say this respectfully and without hurting your feelings...

Okay, you're full of shit.

I can pull everything I own or will own on my 18 ft flatbed or in my 3 yd dump trailer, with a 1 ton pick-up. No problem. trucker boy. I have lots of experience moving equipment.

I pulled my sawmill from East Texas, had a blow-out in Dallas, drove home, got my flatbed, drove back, winched it on to the trailer (by hand, in the middle of the night) and made it to the stead in time to work the next day.

I moved three operatories worth of dental equipment on an 18 ft flatbed, including room size cabinets that had to be double-decked to fit (a large plate glass  window had to be removed to get it all out of the building). I did this all solo, dude, and got it in storage without breaking anything.

If I want to move, it will be done. You can hide and watch. LOL.

Everything you own?  Does that include all the furniture in the McMansion and the Lake House?  How about all your Carz and Motorcycles?  It includes all your battery arrays and solar panels too?  All the fencing you have put up at the Toothstead? Good Grief man, just to move one normal McMansion full of goodies of Industrial Culture takes one of these

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/--RJ_d919wI4/Ur4WnASgWmI/AAAAAAAGcX8/_Q36pOemxTY/s1600/BEKINS+MOVING+Company+Peterbilt+Sleeper+Cab+Truck+5302+Operated+By+BTS+Logistics+Bekins+Trade+Shows+Services+Warrenville+IL..JPG)

You have easily 3-4X the flotsam & jetsam of Industrial Possesions as any halfway normal McMansion Owner.  But YOU can move it all with your trusty 1 ton Ford Pickup from Texas to Canada, no fucking problem.  ::)  lol.'

I will fly down to watch this hilarity.  ;D

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on April 19, 2018, 11:17:58 AM
Don't be silly. I'd only move useful equipment, not furniture. And it would take multiple trips.

And I'm not talking about after BAU is over and done. I'm talking about the way things are now.

Actually I would not be able to move the backhoe. Too heavy, unless I got a better trailer. But the tractor, no problem. And tools. The essential stuff would be better to transport than to replace.

But, unless climate change ramps up mightily, I don't expect to do it. My kids should do it, though, if they can. It'd be wise, I think. But that's their life, not  mine.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on April 19, 2018, 11:32:16 AM
Don't be silly. I'd only move useful equipment, not furniture. And it would take multiple trips.

And I'm not talking about after BAU is over and done. I'm talking about the way things are now.

Actually I would not be able to move the backhoe. Too heavy, unless I got a better trailer. But the tractor, no problem. And tools. The essential stuff would be better to transport than to replace.

But, unless climate change ramps up mightily, I don't expect to do it. My kids should do it, though, if they can. It'd be wise, I think. But that's their life, not  mine.

In this case, you then have to replace furniture on the new Doomstead.  There's more expense for you in making the move.  You also get about nothing on the used furniture market when you try to sell the old stuff off. I learned this lesson as an itinerat coach, albeit on a much smaller scale.  If you have a lot of money invested in furnishings, it costs plenty to move them and you can't sell them but for pennies on the dollar.  It's all lost investment.  I pared down the amount of stuff I own of this type because of this, and what I do own is all disposable, used and cheap.

Far as some of your larger equipment goes, here you might be able to recoup some of the investment on the used market, and then just buy a similar unit once you arrive at your new Hoser Doomstead.  This is much easier than moving such things around.  So again, what you have to do is sell out, see how much money you get from your firesale and jump in Pickup truck with maybe one trailer load of prized preps for the move to the new place.  Zipping back and forth from TX to Canada  4 times is not a real practical idea, you would then have to have a place to store all the shit between these trips, which you can't do in a day.

If you don't do it, I doubt your progeny will be able to.  They just won't have the gas to do it with.  They will have to make the best of it with a drying up plot of land in Texas.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on April 19, 2018, 12:08:28 PM
More reduction ad absurdum.

Unless we suddenly get a spike of 3-4 degrees C, I have some time. At some point it will make sense to cash out of a lot of things here, if I'm still sucking air. Before Austin becomes nothing but shifting sand. I will be older, retired, and have no reason to stay. Right now that is not the case.

I do intend to get the old tractors (the IH tractor, the Kubota, and the Allis backhoe) in good repair and sell them. I'll use that money to buy a new backhoe ATTACHMENT for the new tractor. That's my major piece of equipment. Of course, up north, the sawmill would be nice to have, too. Theoretically speaking.

If I weren't working, two or three round trips in a summer wouldn't be that big a deal.

We have no furniture worth worrying about. We have dogs. LOL.

And two of my kids now live within spitting distance of Canada, already.One in Chi Town. One in your old neighborhood in Queens. My new daughter-in-law is a foreign national with no green card. They might leave sooner rather than later.

Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on April 19, 2018, 12:15:25 PM
More reduction ad absurdum.

Unless we suddenly get a spike of 3-4 degrees C, I have some time. At some point it will make sense to cash out of a lot of things here, if I'm still sucking air. Before Austin becomes nothing but shifting sand. I will be older, retired, and have no reason to stay. Right now that is not the case.

I do intend to get the old tractors (the IH tractor, the Kubota, and the Allis backhoe) in good repair and sell them. I'll use that money to buy a new backhoe ATTACHMENT for the new tractor. That's my major piece of equipment. Of course, up north, the sawmill would be nice to have, too. Theoretically speaking.

If I weren't working, two or three round trips in a summer wouldn't be that big a deal.

We have no furniture worth worrying about. We have dogs. LOL.

And two of my kids now live within spitting distance of Canada, already.One in Chi Town. One in your old neighborhood in Queens. My new daughter-in-law is a foreign national with no green card. They might leave sooner rather than later.

As I like to say, better a day early than a minute late in the GTFO of Dodge race.  The drier it gets, the less the current Toothstead is worth.  If you are showing a property like that with a lot of dead trees, it won't sell too well.

I forgot your daughter was in Queens.  I'd love it if she took a drive over to my old house and took some pictures, if she has time.  I'll send you the address in PM if she is amenable to this.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on April 19, 2018, 12:31:46 PM
Send it and maybe they can do it when Mrs. Eddie is up there this weekend. She flew out this morning.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on April 19, 2018, 01:31:23 PM
Been reading the Peru story all day between patients and shooting the shit with RE. Interesting stuff.

Not done yet (with patients or reading). I have this super scared black teenage girl I'm trying to get numb for 4 wisdom tooth extractions. She had Xanax. She has nitrous on at 50%. She obviously needs more. Fortunately her Mom is solid as a rock. Maybe we can get through this. And maybe I can walk on water.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on April 19, 2018, 01:39:24 PM
Been reading the Peru story all day between patients and shooting the shit with RE. Interesting stuff.

Not done yet (with patients or reading). I have this super scared black teenage girl I'm trying to get numb for 4 wisdom tooth extractions. She had Xanax. She has nitrous on at 50%. She obviously needs more. Fortunately her Mom is solid as a rock. Maybe we can get through this. And maybe I can walk on water.

You need some of that anaesthetic cocktail they hit me with for the spinal operation.  Totally OUT!  I never even knew when I went unconscious, just woke up in the recovery room a few hours later, all done.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on April 19, 2018, 01:55:21 PM
More reduction ad absurdum.

Unless we suddenly get a spike of 3-4 degrees C, I have some time. At some point it will make sense to cash out of a lot of things here, if I'm still sucking air. Before Austin becomes nothing but shifting sand. I will be older, retired, and have no reason to stay. Right now that is not the case.

I do intend to get the old tractors (the IH tractor, the Kubota, and the Allis backhoe) in good repair and sell them. I'll use that money to buy a new backhoe ATTACHMENT for the new tractor. That's my major piece of equipment. Of course, up north, the sawmill would be nice to have, too. Theoretically speaking.

If I weren't working, two or three round trips in a summer wouldn't be that big a deal.

We have no furniture worth worrying about. We have dogs. LOL.

And two of my kids now live within spitting distance of Canada, already.One in Chi Town. One in your old neighborhood in Queens. My new daughter-in-law is a foreign national with no green card. They might leave sooner rather than later.
Check this out. Bring your backhoe.: Its adjacent to the woodlot I was looking at. Its an abandoned large homestead. Original buildings are gone and its been used as a hunting playground since the early 1970's but it screams doomstead. If I was still coupled I would go for something like this but as a single parent I have to be financially cautious this late in the collapse game.
https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Vacant-Land/19006908/HIGHWAY-118-Highlands-East-Ontario-K0L1M0 (https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Vacant-Land/19006908/HIGHWAY-118-Highlands-East-Ontario-K0L1M0)
Check out realtor .ca in C5's neck of the woods. Crazy cheap.
David
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Surly1 on April 19, 2018, 02:02:18 PM
Been reading the Peru story all day between patients and shooting the shit with RE. Interesting stuff.

Not done yet (with patients or reading). I have this super scared black teenage girl I'm trying to get numb for 4 wisdom tooth extractions. She had Xanax. She has nitrous on at 50%. She obviously needs more. Fortunately her Mom is solid as a rock. Maybe we can get through this. And maybe I can walk on water.

You need some of that anaesthetic cocktail they hit me with for the spinal operation.  Totally OUT!  I never even knew when I went unconscious, just woke up in the recovery room a few hours later, all done.

RE

Indeed! I have a whole new regard for the anesthetist's art after my spinal fusion. Eight hours under and flat on my face. They take you out and bring you back. Given all the variables and things that can go wrong, anesthesia is a minor miracle. Mad props.

IN other news, I saw an orthopod for a followup this afternoon and lost my emergency room splint, so I can actually type with two hands again. Huzzah! Teaches appreciation for the small things.

I am assuming they limit a dentist's bag of tricks. Four wisdom teeth at once is a tall order.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on April 19, 2018, 02:09:37 PM
I'm licensed for IV sedation, but I make do with oral sedation and nitrous. Less paperwork, and a little safer maybe.

It's fairly effective, I give 2mg of Xanax, which is 8X the anxiolytic dose. Combine that with 50% N2O and patients don't remember much. It's like they've been roofied.

It went well. She settled down after the drugs hit her, and I did a good job with the local too. she didn't feel a thing.

Some days I can walk on water. Not every day. LOL.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on April 19, 2018, 02:12:36 PM
More reduction ad absurdum.

Unless we suddenly get a spike of 3-4 degrees C, I have some time. At some point it will make sense to cash out of a lot of things here, if I'm still sucking air. Before Austin becomes nothing but shifting sand. I will be older, retired, and have no reason to stay. Right now that is not the case.

I do intend to get the old tractors (the IH tractor, the Kubota, and the Allis backhoe) in good repair and sell them. I'll use that money to buy a new backhoe ATTACHMENT for the new tractor. That's my major piece of equipment. Of course, up north, the sawmill would be nice to have, too. Theoretically speaking.

If I weren't working, two or three round trips in a summer wouldn't be that big a deal.

We have no furniture worth worrying about. We have dogs. LOL.

And two of my kids now live within spitting distance of Canada, already.One in Chi Town. One in your old neighborhood in Queens. My new daughter-in-law is a foreign national with no green card. They might leave sooner rather than later.
Check this out. Bring your backhoe.: Its adjacent to the woodlot I was looking at. Its an abandoned large homestead. Original buildings are gone and its been used as a hunting playground since the early 1970's but it screams doomstead. If I was still coupled I would go for something like this but as a single parent I have to be financially cautious this late in the collapse game.
https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Vacant-Land/19006908/HIGHWAY-118-Highlands-East-Ontario-K0L1M0 (https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Vacant-Land/19006908/HIGHWAY-118-Highlands-East-Ontario-K0L1M0)
Check out realtor .ca in C5's neck of the woods. Crazy cheap.
David

Oh, that is sweet. I like it.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Surly1 on April 19, 2018, 02:24:33 PM
Actually C5 is a good writer. He's a little obsessed with shipping containers and tin roofs, but I share his views on both those things. I'd like to have a shipping container or two myself, but good ones aren't what I consider cheap here. I guess it's all relative.

Cheap AF here, but this area, being a port, is full of yards stocked six stories high with containers. $2500-$5500 plus delivery. A sculptural monument to the balance of trade.

https://shipped.com/shipping-containers-for-sale.php
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on April 19, 2018, 02:34:37 PM
Actually C5 is a good writer. He's a little obsessed with shipping containers and tin roofs, but I share his views on both those things. I'd like to have a shipping container or two myself, but good ones aren't what I consider cheap here. I guess it's all relative.

Cheap AF here, but this area, being a port, is full of yards stocked six stories high with containers. $2500-$5500 plus delivery. A sculptural monument to the balance of trade.

https://shipped.com/shipping-containers-for-sale.php

That's on par for here, roughly. I priced some nice large ones with the extra ft of height..About 4K  if I remember right. I want a big one if I buy one at all. To me, that is NOT cheap. I can build a pretty nice shed for that. I do have a place already graded that would be good for a conex box though.. RE said you could truck one in there if I did some tree trimming. He has seen the spot.

I've been spending so much on pig feed. It's taken all my discretionary budget lately. And then some.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: luciddreams on April 19, 2018, 05:45:39 PM
Well I'm in Canton Mississippi, in my sleeper at a Loves after a 550 mile day which ended in the delivery of a 33,500 pound coil (which is light, the last one was 48,000).  I just read this entire thread.  Lot's of meat on this here bone, and I drank 3 Abita "Andygator" beers while I was at it (on my fourth now...they are 8% and I don't drink like I used to). 

I was thinking Bamboo before Eddie brought it up, specifically "Arrow Bamboo," or Pseudosasa Japonica.  It's of no use to C5 though cause it requires a temperate climate.  However, he could grow pachymorphic (clumping) bamboo from the genus Fargesia.  It's from the Himalayas and so has no problem with extreme cold.  Three days of 95 degrees (Fahrenheit) will kill it.  Most of the fargesias grow about 8 feet tall and around 6 to 8 feet in diameter (the family of canes).  They are around .25 to .50 inches in diameter.  Basically bamboo is not an answer for C5...he's already got his pussy on it.  However, Eddie could definitely grow some Boo, and watering it is only necessary for the first couple of months. 

As I read C5's description of Willow's ecological uses it was as if I was reading about temperate bamboo. 

Also, when I read his advice that the most important object to buy for teotwawki was a ladder, I thought of bamboo.  He said he made a ladder but it was too heavy (I imagine he used wood).  Japanese fire fighters traditionally used bamboo ladders.  Keiji actually taught me how to build a bamboo ladder with bamboo canes and cordage.  Bamboo is hollow, unlike wood, and so it's lite (or is it light?). 

C5 reminds me of me before I took to truckin'.  Fuckin' money...

I agree with just about everything I've read that he's written on this thread.  Community is definitely the most important aspect with respect to thriving in a post petroleum reality.  Murika is fucked due to this.  We don't have community, or much culture.  What culture we have is mostly Native, Mexican, and black.  Whites in Murika have anti-culture and Jeebus and that's about it.  Blacks will be cordial enough to whites, now, when BAU is operating, but I see the reality there.  At least in the south...there is a large percentage of blacks that would love to see the whites become the new niggers.  I learned while I was getting kicked out of the USN that the blacks are great under oppression.  Whites lose their fuckin' marbles under oppression, or massive hardship.  Not all whites.  I'm white.  I won't loose my marbles.  There are plenty of hard ass whites that can make it through the bottleneck.  I digress. 

Community...that's what is important for post petroleum survival.  We have no community (well with exception to the Mennonites and Amish).  The petroleum stops and Murika stops.  Lot's of people will die en masse.  How do you prepare for that?  I've come to realize that the best you can do is prepare for that eventuality psychologically.  Sure, you can do what C5 if proposing (and you should).  You should especially stock up on non-perishable foods and learn some permaculture.  As in, practice some permaculture with respect to plants, and learning to plant and care for them.  Perennials are best.  Bamboo can take care of most all of our needs.  It's an entire culture...at least it can be in a temperate climate.  It can be everything from child entertainment (children love all things bamboo...as do chickens...it's their natural habitat after all) all the way to entire buildings, and it's also food (highest protein count of any vegetable on the planet). 

I'm with RE on this.  The main problem with respect to collapse is community.  That has to happen before teotwawki.  Hippie ecovillages aren't gonna make it IMO.  They are worried about lee lines and faeries.  Zombies will be worried about feeding their broods (and themselves) come collapse.  They won't have a problem bustin' caps in asses until the caps are gone.  So whatever "community" that will survive will have to have no problem bustin' caps in asses.  This has long been my problem with the permaculture community.  They want to smoke weed and hug each other while playing guitar.  That's cool, I'm all for that, but I'm also aware of the ubiquity of guns in my anti-culture. 

One last thing, before I drop the mic and run over it with my tractor trailer. 

C5 never mentioned physical health and fitness.  I'd argue that it's more important to be able to do a lot of push ups, pull ups, and sit ups then it is to own a ladder (which a zombie crack head can steel...).  I imagine C5 has failed to mention this because when one lives the way he lives being fit just happens.  I know, I experienced it myself.  I was in the best shape of my life a couple years after resigning from the Matrix and permaculturin' it up.  Then I quit smokin' weed and started driving a truck for money.  I gained 50 pounds.  Now I've developed a flatbed trucker road work out routine.  I work out daily and often on the road.  I work out on my flatbed trailer because there is no piss on it.  Watch for me, and you'll likely see me on any given interstate rest area doing push ups and sit ups on my flatbed.  I also do pull ups on the trailer.  I've recently bought a pair of running shoes and plan to start running (when I can find places that don't smell like piss to run at). 

My point is that next to food, being in shape is of the utmost importance for survival in a post petroleum world.  Community is the most important aspect...but community is non-existent in Murika.  Community is fucked in Murika. 

Lastly, Bamboo is the most useful plant to our species on this planet.   

 
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on April 19, 2018, 06:31:27 PM
Four wisdom teeth at once is a tall order.

Nah.  My Mex Dentista pulled 20 of my teeth in one session.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on April 19, 2018, 06:35:56 PM
Well I'm in Canton Mississippi, in my sleeper at a Loves after a 550 mile day which ended in the delivery of a 33,500 pound coil (which is light, the last one was 48,000).  I just read this entire thread.  Lot's of meat on this here bone, and I drank 3 Abita "Andygator" beers while I was at it (on my fourth now...they are 8% and I don't drink like I used to). 

I was thinking Bamboo before Eddie brought it up, specifically "Arrow Bamboo," or Pseudosasa Japonica.  It's of no use to C5 though cause it requires a temperate climate.  However, he could grow pachymorphic (clumping) bamboo from the genus Fargesia.  It's from the Himalayas and so has no problem with extreme cold.  Three days of 95 degrees (Fahrenheit) will kill it.  Most of the fargesias grow about 8 feet tall and around 6 to 8 feet in diameter (the family of canes).  They are around .25 to .50 inches in diameter.  Basically bamboo is not an answer for C5...he's already got his pussy on it.  However, Eddie could definitely grow some Boo, and watering it is only necessary for the first couple of months. 

As I read C5's description of Willow's ecological uses it was as if I was reading about temperate bamboo. 

Also, when I read his advice that the most important object to buy for teotwawki was a ladder, I thought of bamboo.  He said he made a ladder but it was too heavy (I imagine he used wood).  Japanese fire fighters traditionally used bamboo ladders.  Keiji actually taught me how to build a bamboo ladder with bamboo canes and cordage.  Bamboo is hollow, unlike wood, and so it's lite (or is it light?). 

C5 reminds me of me before I took to truckin'.  Fuckin' money...

I agree with just about everything I've read that he's written on this thread.  Community is definitely the most important aspect with respect to thriving in a post petroleum reality.  Murika is fucked due to this.  We don't have community, or much culture.  What culture we have is mostly Native, Mexican, and black.  Whites in Murika have anti-culture and Jeebus and that's about it.  Blacks will be cordial enough to whites, now, when BAU is operating, but I see the reality there.  At least in the south...there is a large percentage of blacks that would love to see the whites become the new niggers.  I learned while I was getting kicked out of the USN that the blacks are great under oppression.  Whites lose their fuckin' marbles under oppression, or massive hardship.  Not all whites.  I'm white.  I won't loose my marbles.  There are plenty of hard ass whites that can make it through the bottleneck.  I digress. 

Community...that's what is important for post petroleum survival.  We have no community (well with exception to the Mennonites and Amish).  The petroleum stops and Murika stops.  Lot's of people will die en masse.  How do you prepare for that?  I've come to realize that the best you can do is prepare for that eventuality psychologically.  Sure, you can do what C5 if proposing (and you should).  You should especially stock up on non-perishable foods and learn some permaculture.  As in, practice some permaculture with respect to plants, and learning to plant and care for them.  Perennials are best.  Bamboo can take care of most all of our needs.  It's an entire culture...at least it can be in a temperate climate.  It can be everything from child entertainment (children love all things bamboo...as do chickens...it's their natural habitat after all) all the way to entire buildings, and it's also food (highest protein count of any vegetable on the planet). 

I'm with RE on this.  The main problem with respect to collapse is community.  That has to happen before teotwawki.  Hippie ecovillages aren't gonna make it IMO.  They are worried about lee lines and faeries.  Zombies will be worried about feeding their broods (and themselves) come collapse.  They won't have a problem bustin' caps in asses until the caps are gone.  So whatever "community" that will survive will have to have no problem bustin' caps in asses.  This has long been my problem with the permaculture community.  They want to smoke weed and hug each other while playing guitar.  That's cool, I'm all for that, but I'm also aware of the ubiquity of guns in my anti-culture. 

One last thing, before I drop the mic and run over it with my tractor trailer. 

C5 never mentioned physical health and fitness.  I'd argue that it's more important to be able to do a lot of push ups, pull ups, and sit ups then it is to own a ladder (which a zombie crack head can steel...).  I imagine C5 has failed to mention this because when one lives the way he lives being fit just happens.  I know, I experienced it myself.  I was in the best shape of my life a couple years after resigning from the Matrix and permaculturin' it up.  Then I quit smokin' weed and started driving a truck for money.  I gained 50 pounds.  Now I've developed a flatbed trucker road work out routine.  I work out daily and often on the road.  I work out on my flatbed trailer because there is no piss on it.  Watch for me, and you'll likely see me on any given interstate rest area doing push ups and sit ups on my flatbed.  I also do pull ups on the trailer.  I've recently bought a pair of running shoes and plan to start running (when I can find places that don't smell like piss to run at). 

My point is that next to food, being in shape is of the utmost importance for survival in a post petroleum world.  Community is the most important aspect...but community is non-existent in Murika.  Community is fucked in Murika. 

Lastly, Bamboo is the most useful plant to our species on this planet.
Fitness is crucial. As said best in the much underrated Zombieland... sorry I can't embed...
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZh6O1jYcHQ#)
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on April 19, 2018, 06:41:37 PM
I'm with RE on this.  The main problem with respect to collapse is community.

I'm working on a new article on this topic.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on April 24, 2018, 02:37:08 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfPTWlnxS18 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfPTWlnxS18)

Owwie.....owwie.......

I started the fence today. I now have a better idea of the job I face.

I am astounded at how little I accomplished.... and just how much I hurt.... Owwie...

I'll start my next round with Tylenol and codeine. This is going to be a long project. I have been using a breaker bar for starter holes. It sure helps...other than having to use a breaker bar. You can write on my epitaph, "He died on the wall" . If you dont hear from me again, you know what happened

Owwie....owwie- part two

No way to deal with this level of owwie but beer. What a difference a week makes. Instant summer. 20 Celsius... within a week. Hard working week. I reached the half way point. willowing the garden today. I have grossly  overestimated my abilities on this job. I have gone through A LOT of willow. I may face willow shortage.

C5 rule of Survival- Store more IBUPROFEN
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on April 24, 2018, 03:11:08 PM
Ibuprofen is a miracle drug and that's no shit.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on April 24, 2018, 04:06:57 PM
I really hated this period of music, of fake alternative music, being from the underground music scene. Still, its the go to every time I am PUSHING till it hurts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnQ-Ixnqpe8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnQ-Ixnqpe8)

(Re., Ill figure it out some time when my mind is not mush)

or pulling

I may have bought the tools, but EDDIE, we could use a post that is a tutorial.... of pulling teeth.... so people don't die of broken teeth or jaw bone or scull, or secondary infections.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on April 24, 2018, 04:21:51 PM
I've started that one a couple of times, it gets complicated, but I don't mind giving it a go. There is one source of info (also from an old post of mine here), a link to somebody else's attempt to do what you're asking. I'll see if I can find it.

I found the site, but not sure how to search for the article. It was on the Armageddon Medicine site, which is the site of Dr. Cynthia Koelker, who is a badass teacher. I wanted to take her courses but have not gotten around to it. This article was by a dentist friend of hers. Bear with me, I'll find it. I know I read it there.

Meantime, I'll try to give you a short tutorial of my own. Might take a day or two for me to write it, but I will, since you're interested.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on April 24, 2018, 04:28:59 PM
I really hated this period of music, of fake alternative music, being from the underground music scene. Still, its the go to every time I am PUSHING till it hurts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnQ-Ixnqpe8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnQ-Ixnqpe8)

(Re., Ill figure it out some time when my mind is not mush)

or pulling

I may have bought the tools, but EDDIE, we could use a post that is a tutorial.... of pulling teeth.... so people don't die of broken teeth or jaw bone or scull, or secondary infections.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eti_3bXFZrk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eti_3bXFZrk)
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on April 24, 2018, 04:37:17 PM
Typical general practice resident in training. LOL.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on April 25, 2018, 07:02:13 AM
I have to be careful about what I say and how I say it. While I am happy to impart information about how extractions are done, and how such a thing might be handled in a situation where normal services were/are not available, I can't ethically support folks taking each others bad teeth out to save money when dentists are widely available.

An extraction isn't heart surgery, and the worst case financially is usually a couple of hundred bucks. When people claim to have paid more, the fees usually involve costs of IV sedation or general anesthesia and services performed by an oral surgeon (they do charge more than GP's in most locales.) I'm not an advocate of DIY dentistry.

Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on April 25, 2018, 07:08:44 AM
For general info, I recommend Murray Dickson's book:

https://www.amazon.com/Where-There-Dentist-Murray-Dickson/dp/0942364058 (https://www.amazon.com/Where-There-Dentist-Murray-Dickson/dp/0942364058)
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on April 25, 2018, 07:09:55 AM
I have to be careful about what I say and how I say it. While I am happy to impart information about how extractions are done, and how such a thing might be handled in a situation where normal services were/are not available, I can't ethically support folks taking each others bad teeth out to save money when dentists are widely available.

An extraction isn't heart surgery, and the worst case financially is usually a couple of hundred bucks. When people claim to have paid more, the fees usually involve costs of IV sedation or general anesthesia and services performed by an oral surgeon (they do charge more than GP's in most locales.) I'm not an advocate of DIY dentistry.

You should repost this in the thread I split off, "Collapse Dentistry".

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on April 25, 2018, 07:12:34 AM
Done.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on April 27, 2018, 07:11:58 PM
I did a rough count and it seems I have put in 12 hundred willow spikes so far. That sort of caught me off guard. Boy did I under estimate the amount of willow. I sure hope these take or I am going to look like The biggest idiot on the face of the planet. A couple more thousand to go.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on April 27, 2018, 07:53:44 PM
Good luck. If it doesn't work out this year you can always replant next year. :)

(Its hard to come around to that kind of thinking, but it's how farmers have to think, because its reality)

I figured you were hard at work this week since you hadn't checked in. I'm hoping for the best. Send pics when they green up and start growing.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on April 28, 2018, 05:38:07 AM
Good luck. If it doesn't work out this year you can always replant next year. :)

(Its hard to come around to that kind of thinking, but it's how farmers have to think, because its reality)

I figured you were hard at work this week since you hadn't checked in. I'm hoping for the best. Send pics when they green up and start growing.
Yes. For the first time, Im not thinking about my next post. Too little brain power left over. I'll recycle one of my older posts next round. Probably on greenhouses since my greenhouse just got a full page spread in our local farmers magazine. MrsC5 snuck this up on me. I thought it would be a single photo and some feel good comment of the week.

Nope. Still not enough mental capacity for a snappy comeback, even after a coffee. Ibuprofen awaits
Title: Don’t Build My Greenhouse
Post by: Guest on May 09, 2018, 03:37:27 AM


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C5 Says, Don’t Build My Greenhouse- Redux






C5 silicone



With your Zombified Host, Catatonic5. (I’ll return to Category5 soon enough)



(A special hello and welcome to the new, regular visitors from Italy and Finland. Big numbers  from Finland caught me off guard because MrsC5, who has visited there, informs me they have a huge and vibrant Metal music scene. Soooo…in the name of good Canadian and Finnish relations “Hail Satan, and have a lovely afternoon, Madam”)



 



My brain is mush. My body hurts… and it is going to keep hurting. I have grossly underestimated what it takes to build my living willow fence. I have been using a 30 pound breaker bar to pound the starter holes 2 ft in the ground . Ive put in about fifteen hundred willow so far. That about does the garden.



willow fence 1 I have added a few hundred to close up a few places on the property that looky lues or trespassers might use for easy trespassing. I have a hard earned, new Survival Rule to announce.



C5 Rule of Survival- Store more Ibuprofen



At the moment, I start my day with it. I end my day with it.



All my joints hurt.



Another Doomstead Diner and dentist, on hearing my new rule, wrote, “Ibuprofen is a miracle drug and that’s no shit.”



Whatever you are up to during the collapse of western syphalization will probably include joint and muscle inflammation like you have never known.



I have woken, the last couple nights to fever dreams. Dreams where I am working on some project and wake up sweating, only to drift off and have it happen again and again. OMG, I thought to myself, this is like tree planting dreams. Many years ago I tried tree planting to earn some cash. The physical stress and repetitive action created dreams that everyone there got. You would plant all day, then plant all night in your sleep and wake up exhausted only to do it again. Some planters had dreams where all there trees died from J roots with the foreman yelling at them . Others, that the trees would come alive and come after them. No, really. Something like this…






(That is the story of my doomstead life right there. So many good ideas meant to make my life easier… that took on a life of their own)



That reminds me. Someday I will do a post, “Survival Advice Learned from Naked, Tree Hugging Hippies”



So…… this is a good time to take a short mental break to rework one of my older posts. That is all my mind can handle.





 



Don’t Build My Greenhouse- Redux.



GB9



OK. Let me rephrase that. Build my greenhouse. Its a VERY good idea which I will explain…



BUT… just do it a lot simpler.



That is what I learned while building it. More so, That is what I learned after living with it for a few years. That is even more important. I have a LOVE/HATE relationship with my greenhouse.



A few weeks back, still well below freezing and snow covered, the sun finally came out after a long absence. I stepped out of the shower, working my way towards clothing, took one look at the greenhouse catching sun… and said “C5, Take a Fukital pill”.






I grabbed a six pack (who am I kidding. A 12 pack) and got in some quality, nude sunbathing in my greenhouse time, “exposing” myself to nature, soaking in how awesome I am. Or at least how awesome my greenhouse is. During the transition phases of spring or fall, we use the greenhouse to heat our house. We just open the sliding window and let the heat flow in. I want to upgrade this by adding a fan to blow the heat in. This saves us plenty of firewood. Other times, when it is just miserable outside, I hang out in the greenhouse, getting all the outsidy goodness without any of that sociopathic Mother Nature trying to kill me in cold and painful ways, part.



multi 1Multi 2



I glory in my genius and this multi use room. Its not just for growing stuff. The pumpkins are sun hardening for storage, safe from frost damage. Firewood is being speed seasoned and stored so I dont have to go outside for it. Its also one big solar dehydrator. apple doc



Ive done upgrades since those photos. A second set of reinforcing beams for strength. I just added several cloth lines because it is also our new cloth dryer. The lines also hold trays to be used for food dehydration. I am going to upgrade this again so trays are up high to get the most heat and be out of the way. We totally stopped using our solar dehydrator because it it was a very attractive FAIL.



food dehydrator 2 sm



Its now being re-purposed into a smoke house. The big greenhouse works way better. Quantity has a quality of its own.



But that gets us around to that the greenhouse is an ongoing build. I also hate my greenhouse and worry about it excessively. It aint all magic unicorns shooting skittles out of its ass. Ill add everything I have learned to hate and fear near the end.



 



The reason we are writing this now, is because I recently got some local green Cred. The local, provincial, farming magazine, recently gave a full page article of my greenhouse build and the locals have been congratulating me. MrsC5 snuck this up on me. The magazine had put out a call for, cheap greenhouse ideas. I thought I would get a feel good photo somewhere in the local announcements page, near the bottom. I wasn’t expecting a full page. But, full disclosure, I didn’t get the opportunity to tell everybody everything that is wrong with it.



A reader once commented on my original article, “… like you, I have done the scavenged windows thing but wound up using more lumber, had more joints (leaks), not really a problem if used as walls but yours will be a roof, spent more time and had greater frustrations….if you will consider polycarbonate it comes in 8 and 12 foot lengths, from memory 26 or 30 inches wide, I cant remember for sure, available at Homedespot.”



Correctamundo,  Kung Fu Fonzy grasshoppers.






This took far more time to build than I had hoped and I fear its too fragile…so I will be going back to work on it to reinforce everything. Potentially, some big storm or snow dump may smash it all and have me stripping off all the broken glass to be replaced with polycarb. We’ll wait and see. I had really hoped to do the entire front of the house that year. This is as much time as I can invest this year as everything else I need to do is falling behind. I’ll finish the last half next year. In retrospect, I would have passed on the tire wall as well. Too much time and energy was spent…shoveling dirt. I was looking pretty buff, though. LOL. Bringing it straight to the ground, or on a single layer of tires would have been, no nonsense, and given me more time to do the entire house.



OK. Enough whining and warnings. Im still pretty impressed with it and I will explain why it is still a really good idea. We have a nothing special house built from a mobile home. I joke with Mrs C5 that it reminds me of a Jehovah Witness hall. I hadn’t expected to live in an actual house. That is rather hard for a nomad. Especially a house with so little character.



GB1



But its not bad considering we are mortgage and debt free, plan to stay that way…and have a million dollar view. Lousy insulation and brutal winters, though. That’s a good place to start. Climate Chaos. 2014’s RRR winter, that’s, Ridiculously Resilient Ridge, meant we got hit with the Snowpocalypse out here in Nova Scotia. It killed off over 60% of the deer. Its been Polar Vortex’s since. Could be worse. Western Canada was burning at the time and California…enough said. This region, possibly might end up being the last habitable place on earth. We have no shortage of water here. Soooo….Yes, Its also a monsoon proof greenhouse for early plant starts, frost protection and deluge protected food. Its also a heat generator once the temperature drops for the house. Its also “Space Insulation”. One wall (and the windows) is now protected against the blowing cold sucking heat away. Ideally, I’d build similar structures around the entire house if left to my own devices . Slipstream the house against ever increasing winds as the new weather goes wacky.



A house within a house. Space insulation.



There is a new concept fore you that I stole as a kid reading the book, The Last Canadian. To survive the winter, they knocked a wall out of their cabin and rolled a smaller cabin inside it. This has many applications. Do you plan to winter in an RV. Build a shed over it. Its like wearing a gortex shell over polypropylene. One sheds the weather. The other insulates.



The other advantage of this greenhouse concept…It should be easy to build…in-spite of my previous complaint of over building. I’m no carpenter. I’m a Master MacGyver and Recycler. My most influential movie of all time was The Road Warrior.



“You are a maggot, Max. Living off the corps of the old world”. That’s me.



Other than the 13 rough cut 2x6s, fasteners and silicon, everything else was recycled. I do the impossible with nothing. It’s my gift…..but I don’t have a clue how to do anything “Right”. So this is a simple enough concept. Make a lean to off your house. Cover it with something see through. No complex carpentry required. All the necessary structure was already built into the house by people that knew more of what they were doing than I. I’m leaning on their expertise, quite literally.



GB2My willow planting is quite painful to do but there is little more painful than shoveling dirt… except maybe shoveling rocks. Remember my advice about the Ibuprofen.



GB3GB4GB5



FYI. Much of the glass was from double paned sliding glass doors. Its tough glass and there are two panes in each unit but it is tricky work separating them. I broke a few. I used a box cutter and lots of patience.



GB6GB7



We then added fridges as raised beds, barrels and filled tires to act as heat sinks that would hold heat into the evening. OOPS. And I almost forgot. Rain catchment.GB8



Isn’t that inspirational? Doesn’t it make you feel good?



Now, let me tell you everything wrong with it.






People ask me, if I could do it again, what would I do differently.



The answer is…. everything. I’m stuck with it now. Its the Bi-Polar greenhouse. I love my greenhouse. I also Hate my greenhouse. Where to begin.



Basically, I got too ambitious.



The most obvious thing is to change the angle. I should not of reached out so far. It should have been more vertical. More vertical means more obvious strength to the support beams. Six inches of strength is much different than six feet of strength.Vertical is better. Te he. Especially when a couple thousand pounds of snow comes down on you. No really, at its present angel, it must be shoveled off, each big snow…or the snow will keep accumulating until the whole thing smashes. Even small snows, we have to use a large broom to sweep the snow off to let light in.  I compensated by adding a support beam at the middle and one near the top (not in the photos). No need for either if it was more vertical. We are also free of hail here but that can change.



That is why I also built this. Time hasn’t been as kind to her though.



finished greenhouse



So much promise but she is, pretty much, dry storage at this point.



C5 Rule of Survival- Never enough… dry storage.



Another subtle vertical, tall guy joke.






Look up. Look way up… to the photo at the top of the page.



You see me siliconing  leaks, quite dangerously. There is no safe place to put a ladder without breaking glass. It was tough and risky. This local fame I recently got was based on the 100$ greenhouse idea. I don’t deserve this fame. I spent far more than 100$ alone on silicon. I still have leaks. Leaks rot wood. Siliconing and painting is an on going task. So is reinforcing against superstorms. I will be adding more cross beams as time allows then siliconing all the glass wood corners together so any wind flux may crack the glass but still hold it together. All of this could have been solved using polycarb.



Lets whip back over to Mythos and Logos doomstead. Remember this? This will do the same and be more storm proof



roof 1 docroof 2 doc



It aint all about me. The next build to finish greenhousing the front of the house  will look more like this… but more upright so snow slides off it. This is more sturdy and much easier to build.



Now, lets say you are trying to do the same concept during the collapse, on the cheap, to generate some heat. Lets revisit Mythos and Logos greenhouse again… and lets apply it to the side of an abandoned and squatted in, ex suburban home.



greenhouse 2 docGreenhouse plastic over chicken wire for strength. This is a solar heater for your post apocalyptic house.



 



Now, if you have read this far…you get into the real MEAT of this post.



 



If you look up? Look way up to the first photo… You will notice shade screen… and this opens you to THE BIGGEST problem with this build.



Its too fucking hot!!!!!



It aint just a greenhouse. Its a solar cooker.



It requires management. That means you can not LEAVE IT to go do other things.



If you go away and have not left the doors open… and the sun comes out… not only will you cook your plants….It will melt the siding off your house.



Thus, greenhouse operators learned to use SHADE CLOTH. In our case, we use breeder trash. Recycled from the side of the road, trampoline safety nets. Its a recent joke me and MrsC5 had on a road trip to pick up perennial arctic kiwi plants, the next provence over . If you are in the country, if there is a 4×4 pickup truck out front, there is a trampoline in the back. On country roads, every fifth house has a trampoline. No shit.



Store every safety net you find that gets tossed. That is breeder trash gold.



It’s a one time in the lifetime of a planet opportunity, while everyone is in “Think of the children” mode, worrying about lawsuits.






Well, they help keep the excess population down.



I may do some future experimentation’s  on using trampoline frames. I turned a single one into a small animal shed. Three or four of them could make a good greenhouse.



One more job of the years is to add ventilation windows, near the roof, on the ends, to let excess heat out, without leaving the doors open, where a micro burst of of heavy winds might catch it like a kite and rip it off the building.



In the mean time, Ill keep reinforcing my greenhouse. A storm is a coming.



Speaking of super-storms and and greenhouses… This is next years build.



bus greenhouse



Think of it as a ready made greenhouse, already designed for high winds, impervious to snow load or hail, with easy ventilation. Until then… it’s DRY STORAGE… and filled with bikes.



So, to sum up. Build my greenhouse. Its awesome. Just reduce half the angle so snow slides off it and add more strength to compensate for a climate in chaos.



————————————–



Now it is bonus time. In case you missed them. Best articles of the month



https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/apr/26/were-doomed-mayer-hillman-on-the-climate-reality-no-one-else-will-dare-mention



and more-



” The Surprisingly Solid Mathematical Case of the Tin Foil Hat Gun Prepper ” (It wont allow me to do a direct link to it but you can cut and paste the title and put it in your search engine and it will take you there. Well worth the trouble)



Special mention also goes to this one as well   https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/05/07/the-spy-who-came-home



That’s all I got. Back to putting willow in the ground. Its looking like a three years of spring job. This round is coming to an end. See you next month.



 



 



 



 





 



 



 



 





Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on May 09, 2018, 06:23:25 AM
I have a 24'x72' high wall hoophouse on the stead built (but never quite properly completed) by the PO (previous owner). I have stared at it for several years now without getting serious.

I did buy some high quality UV resistant plastic to put a new cover on it which is, of course, in dry storage. Not in dry storage is a good aquaculture starter kit, not completed either. I have a completion problem. I'm a good idea man, but end up with too many distractions to stay on track.

And...the pay-off for most of my food growing experiments, including gardening, which I still dabble with, is low. What I've learned is that it makes sense to keep putting food in storage containers. Because I'll probably starve fairly quickly here trying to grow enough food to do anything more than take a couple of cute pics for the blog. It's disheartening.

When I was a kid my parents moved "back to the land" in 1962. I remember big gardens that did feed us. Potatoes stored under our pier and beam house that lasted most of the year.  A corn crib in the barn built out of long gone old growth timber by my great grandfather or maybe his father, whom I never knew. My grandfather was a subsistence farmer who never held a "job". My father knew a lot, and I tried hard to learn none of it. I got a little anyway.

But that was 250 miles north and east of here. Climate matters. Soil matters. Lesson learned, but now I'm dug in here and going nowhere anytime soon, most likely. People do make gardens here. But you have to be pretty savvy. I continue to learn through various failures. Thank goodness for plastic buckets and those de-ox packets. I'm a bad-ass rice and beans storage expert.

Gotta be careful not to use too many. They work so well the buckets can collapse and implode. One is enough.

Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on May 09, 2018, 06:29:48 AM
Down here the heat is a big problem for a greenhouse. So much so that the real trick is learn how to cool a greenhouse, not heat it.

Big fans and water walls with caught rainwater (no mineral build-up) are effective if you have power to pump the water. I'd like to try using cooling tubes like an earth ship, but I gotta get my backhoe fixed to dig the trenches. Gotta find cheap big pipes..and engineer it to resist standing water, which here means mold and nasty shit like Legionella.

After I get rid of the rest of the pigs (I'm down to thirty now, from 43) I think I'll turn my attentions in that direction.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on May 09, 2018, 06:56:57 AM

But that was 250 miles north and east of here. Climate matters. Soil matters.

Climate and soil matter for sure.  But the real difference here is that C5 works at this 365/24/7, it is his full time job.  Your full time job is drilling teeth.  Pays much better of course.  If you were on the Toothstead as much as C5 is on his Maritimestead, I am sure you could/would do a reasonable facsimile with your work ethic.  In fact that would be a pretty good contest, although I think you are about a decade older than C5.

Unless you can put in the time to a doomstead, you just can't hope to grow enough food for even subsistence living.  It is way easier (and CHEAPER!) just to buy long lasting industrially produced foods and drop them in storage.  I do no growing of any kind, I do not even attempt it.  I don't have the space for it and I am in no shape to be building greenhouses these days.  I can however Vacuum Seal a 50 lb bag of rice into convenient 2 lb bags and drop them in a storage container.  WRT food, aside from Zombies stealing it from me or giving it away to friends (most likely since I am headed for the Great Beyond in short order anyhow), I could last probably 3 years, maybe more with some supplemental fishing, hunting and Goobermint Cheese rations.

I admire C5 for his work ethic and for the fact he has pulled himself off grid and off the industrial bandwagon as much as he has.  It is remarkable.  It is however not all that efficient.  For less money than even he spends, I could get a place set up you would last for a good decade on without growing a fucking thing.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on May 09, 2018, 08:34:32 AM
Age is a factor. Its why we have pushed ourselves recently. The clear understanding that we will be too old to build these things very soon. This year is less about food and more about infrastructure that will be there later as to produce less work later.

I laugh when people talk about my work ethic. I sit on my ass for months at a time. I wander around staring at materials but doing nothing. MrsC5 gets pissed and worried I am a lazy slob. Then one day happens when I have it figured out....then go phsyco and a week later, BOOM. Something new is there. Then I am back on the couch, thinking.

I like Paul Wheatons motto. My goal in life is to be "Fat, Lazy and Happy"

This week I am just puttering and tinkering. Recovering. My work day will be an hour or two. Yesterday I fixed a recycled wheel barrow, changing the wheel from the flat inflatable type that is close to unfixable so people throw the whole thing out. I put in a solid wheel from some other thrown out object. Today, I will use it to move some firewood closer to the road for loading into our honda civic. About an hours work.... then maybe I will play some vidio games. LOL

Hey, Eddy. I put that DIY dentestry clip in there for you
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on May 09, 2018, 08:38:23 AM
Age is a factor. Its why we have pushed ourselves recently. The clear understanding that we will be too old to build these things very soon. This year is less about food and more about infrastructure that will be there later as to produce less work later.

I laugh when people talk about my work ethic. I sit on my ass for months at a time. I wander around staring at materials but doing nothing. MrsC5 gets pissed and worried I am a lazy slob. Then one day happens when I have it figured out....then go phsyco and a week later, BOOM. Something new is there. Then I am back on the couch, thinking.

I like Paul Wheatons motto. My goal in life is to be "Fat, Lazy and Happy"

This week I am just puttering and tinkering. Recovering. My work day will be an hour or two. Yesterday I fixed a recycled wheel barrow, changing the wheel from the flat inflatable type that is close to unfixable so people throw the whole thing out. I put in a solid wheel from some other thrown out object. Today, I will use it to move some firewood closer to the road for loading into our honda civic. About an hours work.... then maybe I will play some vidio games. LOL

Hey, Eddy. I put that DIY dentestry clip in there for you

NOBODY moves all that dirt and puts up a greenhouse frame sitting on their ass.  You are full of shit. lol.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on May 09, 2018, 09:34:10 AM
Age is a factor. Its why we have pushed ourselves recently. The clear understanding that we will be too old to build these things very soon. This year is less about food and more about infrastructure that will be there later as to produce less work later.

I laugh when people talk about my work ethic. I sit on my ass for months at a time. I wander around staring at materials but doing nothing. MrsC5 gets pissed and worried I am a lazy slob. Then one day happens when I have it figured out....then go phsyco and a week later, BOOM. Something new is there. Then I am back on the couch, thinking.

I like Paul Wheatons motto. My goal in life is to be "Fat, Lazy and Happy"

This week I am just puttering and tinkering. Recovering. My work day will be an hour or two. Yesterday I fixed a recycled wheel barrow, changing the wheel from the flat inflatable type that is close to unfixable so people throw the whole thing out. I put in a solid wheel from some other thrown out object. Today, I will use it to move some firewood closer to the road for loading into our honda civic. About an hours work.... then maybe I will play some vidio games. LOL

Hey, Eddy. I put that DIY dentestry clip in there for you

I saw that.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: The Post Apocalyptic Permaculture Pig- Redux
Post by: Guest on May 17, 2018, 06:32:15 AM
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                  C5 and The Post Apocalyptic Permaculture Pig- Redux

               






                  Thus ends the life of Mr Wu. All that is left to do is tell the story. I have been avoiding thinking about this all year. Putting down my 600 lb pound friend and filling a freezer. On the way to the abattoir, tears started to come but I choked it back. Maudlin by nature, its easy for me to only focus on my failures or the experiments that didn’t live up to my expectations. This miffs MrsC5 sometimes. She says I don’t focus enough on my successes. Its true, of course. One of my skills is that I consistently do the impossible with nothing. Its my only real skill. Nothing motivates me more than to be told it cant be done. My usual response is, “Just watch me. If you don’t have any helpful advice, get the fuck out of my way”. But today, my thoughts were that we will most likely never try pig breeding again. We may have a pig again to do field clearing and tilling and freezer within the year. Having a bakers dozen plus a huge boar overwhelmed our abilities. But without the ability to breed ongoing generations, this was a survival Fail for me. It was not an experiment I could afford to fail in. I’ll explain why latter. More so, we lost friends in this endeavor. We also learned the people that had moved onto our land were not the right fit and had to go.
               



                  I had been psyching myself up to shoot Mr Wu and attempting a piss assed butchery. I had already culled one of his siblings as well as one of his offspring…but this would be different. He was my friend. MrsC5 would have nothing of it. She demanded a proper  abattoir and butcher. It seemed I had dodged responsibility but I was relived. When he stepped off the trailer and into the final pen, the abattoir was preparing for the usual potential chase. When Mr Wu followed MrC5 out the trailer and into the pen, the abattoir commented, “Wow. That is not something you see. You must have been very hands on with him”. Other than seeing he was OK, I didn’t want to spent any farewell time with him. That would have been too much. As I turned away, My final thoughts were the cheezy Babe movie lines, “That’ll do pig. That’ll do”.
               



                  It was the Abattoirs words that made it easier on me because I realized he had had a very good life. Now every body says that but in Mr Wu’s case, it was definitely true. The proof  was in his graceful end. He had spent his last year getting strange pussy and having many piglets on another farm while we were away in Peru. More so, he was totally free range, wandering the hills as he pleased (Not something I would recommend, by the way. Feral pigs are an environmental catastrophe).
               



                  When he was with us, after his harness phase, he was left in an orchard we wanted to reclaim surrounded by our ancient dead hedge experiment. This was mainly a Failed experiment. (Another Post…) Torpedo shaped, Pig Headed, little eating machines can push though or rip out of the ground, just about anything you can build, (including buildings) yet word was getting around about this huge pig behind a stick fence and they came miles out of their way down a dirt rode to park their car and stare at this pig.
               



                  But the BIG number of people that knew about Mr Wu came from an article I wrote first at Permies.com and repeated over at the International Preppers Network. Someone from Permies recently asked for More to his story. I said yes….but it should really start by re-posting the original article…and tweaking it into a Redux, more polished version. Its an important article. So, without further Adue. (He looks so tiny in these photos)
               





                  The Post-Apocalyptic Permaculture Pig
               



                  colour 5 header 2
               



                  If I croak tomorrow, I owe the Prepper and Permaculture world a brief synopsis of what we have learned about raising a pig on a harness. This is outside of most North Americans idea of how to raise a pig. I won’t try to sell you folks that this is “The Way” to raise a pig. Just “A Way”. This was a problem solving experiment, mainly to deal with the incredible expense of fencing or lack thereof in a wold of diminishing resources, both materials and financial. If we screwed up this experiment, we simply would have filled our freezer early and “eaten” the loss.
               



                  O.K. That’s way too serious of a way to start one of my posts. I’ll start again with the words of one of our farm sitters. “Taking the pig for a walk was the high point of all my farm experiences. I was frightened at first but then it was fun.” Mr Wu (bonus points go to anyone that guesses why we named him that) grossly outweighed her at less than a year of age. At this point, I don’t even leash him when taking him for a walk around farm with the dogs. It’s something to see, a huge pig, galloping across the fields with the dogs. It’s a little more intimidating when he is charging towards you like a small buffalo. I’m sure glad he likes me. This is one happy pig. Clearly we did something right…in spite of that certain people told us that we were doing something bad and this might even be cruel for the animal. I had worries, myself. These worries began to flow away the first few times he rolled over onto my feet to have his belly scratched…or when, one time, he broke out of his pen, he didn’t run off into the forest but sauntered up to the front door with a “What are you guys up to” look on his face.
               



                  Now, I take great pride in that I could beat most large dogs in a fight if they attacked me. I trained myself for that. I’m a little rough around the edges. A couple days ago, I came to the conclusion that I would not be able to win in a fight with this pig. Just like the dogs, he was born to fight. Just like the dogs, he likes to rough house as play. A couple of days ago he hit me with a sneak attack. He likes to drive himself between my legs from behind in an attempted to knock me over. My usual defense is to sit on him and ride him around for a while like a bronco buster. This time, he caught me off guard and after a few seconds on the ride, crashed down into a bush in a winded huff without any of my secret ninja pride intact. I looked over to him and realized if he attacked me now…I was done. Instead, I could tell he was doing the piggy equivalent of at laughing at me and his triumph. My point is that this is a happy pig that likes me and has a way better life than most animals we raise for food. At the moment, he is harnessed to a large tire in the garden, tilling up the garden and weeding or working in mulch. He is a pig with a job. A permaculture job. A post-apocalyptic permaculture pig.
               



                  Week 1 doc
               



                  pets looking towards Mr Wu doc(What is this alien creature? Are we supposed to kill it?) touch training doc(Touch training. He did not like me. I was the big bad wolf. To eat, he had to risk me touching him)
               



                  So, how did we get to this point of me on the ground with a pig laughing at me and why should you consider this option, especially in a survival, prepper, permaculture, collapse of western, business as usual, society context. And why should you listen to me besides that I am so charming? I have no pig raising experience. I have no farm experience other than the last few years. I am something of a Survival Expert though that means little. A C5 Rule Of Survival is- “There is no such thing as a Survival Expert. Anyone claiming to be is just trying to sell you something”.

                  Like I said, I had been trying to figure out a way to deal with small livestock raising without the expense of easily sourced or debt financed fencing of our fields. We just can’t afford to fence our fields. We can afford electric fencing and solar batteries as a mobile option…but these are a short term solution to a much larger problem. If you need to feed yourself but the money is gone or that fencing or batteries are no longer available…well, that whole C5 survival expert status means I have to solve that little problem for the next generation of have nots. People have probably seen tethered goats. One online friend had faced the same problem with her cow. She solved it by tethering it to a tire. The cow could eat its pasture and pull the tire further into the field for fresher grass…but couldn’t run off down the road to run amuck.
               



                  The big Lightbulb moment for me was visiting Cuba. For those not familiar with the subject, Cuba is often referred to as “The mini Peak oil” With the embargo in place and the collapse of the Soviet Union ending their oil supplies, Cuba had to adapt to non-Big Ag, mass production food systems coming to a complete stop. When we arrived, it was the end of the dry season, the rains hadn’t arrived yet and grazing was withered. Lots of animals were looking pretty thin. They were also all tethered, tied to anyplace there was grass. Instead of bringing food to the animals, they brought the animals to the food. Oh good. It wasn’t just me waxing all survivalist with this little problem.
               



                  Then we saw a pig out in a field. A couple of piglets were hanging out with it. Why was this pig so far away from people? Did it escape? Was it wild? Then I pointed it out to MrsC5, “Are my eyes deceiving me? That pig is on a leash. I didn’t know that was possible. The little ones aren’t even running off. They are all staying with the big one…unattended.” Then the little wheels started spinning in my head. Might I have just solved our pig fencing dilemma. A day later I explained to MrsC5 that we were going to have a pig on a leash. Luckily, she was immediately on board. Whew. Thank goodness I didn’t have to explain this nutty idea to her. It would be a hard sell to most people. The next insight while walking around in the rural hinterlands of Cuba is that all the houses had fenced yards…but the fences were often hodge podged together from any scraps they could find. A rusted piece of metal from the beach was wired in with scrap wood, boulders, cactus’s, whatever could be scavenged. Most likely to keep pigs out…or in. I never asked. But my theories about fencing in a world with severely limited resources was there in front of my eyes. It was the small, excessively rusty beach metal, carefully woven into the fence that sticks with me to this day. Week 3 with harness docputtem to work doc(Put’in him to work young, tilling in the garden)
               



                  There is another C5 Rule of Survival- “There is a big difference between KNOWING in the Biblical Sense and KNOWING in the Porn sense” Unless you have first hand experience in it…assume it doesn’t work…no matter what you saw on youtube…or what you read in my self proclaimed survival expertlyness bloggeryness
               



                  We wanted pigs because pigs were going to be the only way to get the necessary fat intake to survive a Canadian winter without slowly starving to death. We had already learned that chickens weren’t sustainable here, in spite of just assuming we could raise chickens as a survival assumption. A belief I’d had all my life. Knowing in the biblical sense knocked that right out of me. I can’t grow the food they need to get through a winter in this location with limited machinery. I tried. I failed. But I could grow rabbit or pig food. Perhaps you have read the old stories of people that had all the rabbits they needed but starved to death anyhow. Rabbits don’t have the necessary fat. Neither do deer for that matter. Bear, geese and beaver, yes…but we had already given up on the idea that any wild food source would still be around in a collapse setting. Most of the wild animals we take for granted almost went extinct during the Great Depression. It will be worse now. Think of hunting on the very last day of hunting season. Your chances are slim. So that leaves domesticated pigs. If you want cooking oil, it’s going to be lard.
               



                  But with everything else going on around the prepper farm…it had moved into the category of “Next Year” jobs. Next year became next year the next year and so on.
               



                  Then one of our Prepper friends made the decision for us. We got a call, “Guess what? I Just bought three pigs. Berkshire, Tamworth cross”. I jokingly replied, “One of those is for us. Right?”

                  I didn’t actually think he would say yes. OK. It took a few weeks. He was using the old reasoning. If you raise three pigs and sell two that pays for your own pig in the fall. But I think he got curios about how we were going to raise him with this whole tethering idea. We were caught off guard because we wanted to start with a much cheaper breed. It was after all, a practice pig. If we screwed it up the first time, we would just eat what we did wrong. But our friend had already chosen the friendliest and least skittish of the three for us. The one that was most curious and didn’t mind being scratched. The more Berkshire of the three. This put us into a panicky scramble. I had a day to whip up a small enclosure out of recycled fence material I already had on hand. I had to make sure he couldn’t dig underneath. I don’t know how to raise a pig. I butted it against the chicken coop to break the wind.
               



                  O.K. Less story telling. Just the facts. Lets start with what I did wrong right off the bat. You have to start this process at a much younger age than we did. Your pig needs to be touched, scratched and handled as young as possible. Our relationship started with me having to wrestle him down. It turns out I was good at this because of the dog fighting I mentioned above. Just pin it to the ground, pick it up and put it in the truck. I had to do it again a few days later to get the harness on him. Big mistake. To a pig, the only thing that pins it down is a predator in the process of killing it. It didn’t trust or like me again for quite a while. Pigs never forget. MrsC5 hadn’t been the one to pin him so she had to take over trust building with the pig. I was the big bad wolf.walking young Mr Wu 1 docwalking young Mr Wu in summer 2 docputting Mr Wu in pen dock
               



                  Trust got rebuilt as he realized there was benefits to this arrangement. In fact, we are onto a new phase of his training. While I write this, he is off leash outside. This is new and has had its own problems we are working out. He gets a few hours of wandering free now.
               



                  Back to early raising. He started in a small enclosure. Two days later, the entire enclosure had been tilled. We were amazed. This little pig was a tilling machine…and the wheels in my head started to turn once more. Anyone who has ever tried to till a garden by hand knows that is not as simple as first envisioned and your first real fear of possibly having a heart attack. People try to get around this back breaking work with deep mulching or cardboard mulching on any other way to avoid tilling. We suddenly had a non gas powered tilling machine. A single minded eating machine. The implications were huge.
               



                   
               



                  tilled doc(this new enclosure was tilled in about a week…but he was much larger at the time)
               



                  Then came the next training. Getting a leash on the pig was the next problem. Remember, he didn’t trust me now…and I once again had to wrestle him to get the leash on. But I did and then walked him over to the new enclosure. He went right in and started tilling. Pigs are smart. He knew the enclosure was his safe place. We had to leave the leash on him and he just dragged it around for several months because it was easier to grab the leash than try to pin him to get it on. What a change to today. Now he comes up to the fence to say, “Please leash me because I want to go out. He is easier to leash than my dogs. It only took about three days for the pig to figure the leash thing out. He figured out that I was taking him to a new place for him to till. Let the healing begin.
               



                  Slowly his leash got longer when we tied a rope to it. He got attached to the fence or a tire. Unlike most pigs, he got to go places. It wasn’t long before the next big experiment. After a few beers I decided it was time to walk him to the top of the property. The pig, the dogs…and the cat. The cat had already embraced these walks. She knew if she walked in the fields she was hawk food so to explore further she would have to chase the dogs for safety. This was one of the most surreal experiences of my life. A small multi species commune on a walk, bound together for mutual support. The pig was curious enough to follow on this new adventure. It was going fine…until the kitty decided it would be fun to stalk the pig. Understand, the pig had grown fast…but even with this huge size difference, the pig’s instincts kicked in. Instinctualy, pigs seem to know that big cats are its major predator. This tiny kitty was death incarnate….and he yanked me home at a run to the safety of his safe enclosure.
               



                  As spring turned to summer and heat increased, we knew we had to get him out of the sun as leaving him tied in the field was cruel. Apple tree training had begun. We wanted some of the undergrowth under the trees cleared out. Air flow for tree health, a soft place for apples to land and ease of access, and eventually the goal – bring the pig to the food instead of bringing the food to the pig. As a bonus, interrupting the worm cycle of them surviving in the ground again after the apples fall. We still had to trim out all of the undergrowth to keep him from getting tangled…and boy, can that pig ever get himself tangled.pig in the orchard doc(its hard to see but he is attached to a branch )
               



                  Which gets us to one of the down sides of this type of pig raising. It’s way more labor intensive. A pig is a social animal. It’s sort of cruel to have a single pig unless YOU are willing to be its social pig herd. You have to be around. You have to check up on it regularly. You have to adjust his harness every few days because they grow so fast. If you don’t…that harness will strangle him or chafe his skin causing cuts and lesions so you really have to invest the time of touching and handling him.
               



                  And you have to be there to hear him squeal when he gets himself tangled, which he will. If we go out someplace, he has to go back in his stall so we don’t come home to a strangled or panicked, traumatized pig.
               



                  Your main garden will need a sturdy fence because the pig is going to escape occasionally. Pigs are uber smart and driven by hunger. Mr. Wu learned how to open the fence gate within a short period. He pushes open doors, lifts raised gates, tests every possible escape route. I’ve even seen him try to lift the rope that ties the gate shut because he knows it slides into place.
               



                  Your pig WILL escape. Getting him back in his pen takes some simple training that is easy. Tie a bear bell to the feed bucket. He knows if he hears that bell, glorious food awaits and food is his single driving force. The bell sends him frothing.Walkies doc 2Solar Pig 1
               



                  Now, the next big problem. All this hands on relationship completely changes the relationship. It had always been, I pop this guy in the fall and he goes in the freezer. Then that day came when he plopped down onto my feet and rolled over to have his belly scratched, exposing himself in the same way my dogs would. The second time he did it…I went, “You Bastard. You are going to fuck me up. How can I shoot you?” Now that was always the intention. He was always food and had a time limit. I am “Survivalist enough” that I could shoot and eat my dogs if I had too…but doing so would hurt my soul and I would have to carry that. I carry too much already. Now the pig trusts and loves me as if he were one of my dogs. I can do it if I have to…but don’t ask me to. I need a friend that is not invested emotionally in him to pop him for me. I can handle the rest. I just can’t handle betraying him. This is a common problem for pig farmers. Because of this, a common practice is to trade pigs with another farmer. Killing and eating a pig is fine. Killing and eating the one you became emotionally involved with can be difficult.
               



                  Then Mr. Wu got a lease on life. An execution reprieve. The same prepper friend that we got him from was so impressed with his size and personality…that he encouraged us to keep him for a few years as a breeder. He had decided to go purchase a sow and together, we would breed our own pigs. To cover our loss of winter food, he would share half of his own boar. Now we are going from zero experience to pig breeder. There will be much more to learn.
               



                  Speaking of learning…or our lack thereof, we found out just yesterday that our pig is not suitable for rotational grazing. We would need a different type of pig for that. Grazing pigs will eat grass. Mr. Wu has never been interested in eating grass. He is a rooter. If you want to have grass fed pigs…you need a pig that eats grass. Ours isn’t it. Grass is just in the way. He wants the worms, grubs and field mice. Rotational Tilling…probably. We are really disappointed by what he won’t eat. Our intension had been to winter him on carrots and Jerusalem artichokes. He is not interested. The experiment continues. So know your pig. Until then he will partial winter on apples and squashes we have stored all over the house. And pig rations but the goal is to get him fully off pig feed. We need food that we don’t have to drive to. Food produced right here on the homestead.
               



                  Ours roots so we are using him as a rooter. He is a cold weather breed so he will be out for the winter with a shelter he can go into as a dry place to sleep and escape the wind. We fenced a temporary winter enclosure that our intention is to be an extension to our garden. We wanted to move the garden closer to the house so we have to walk less which really does take up a lot of our farming time. Walking back and forth really does consume time when added up over the year so we have to streamline our calorie and time expenditures. Of course that means expending more time to build him a new area next year.
               



                  Born free 1Born free 2(Running free with the dogs. This is where we break out into a rousing chorus of Born Free, As Free as the Wind Blows…..)
               



                  I wanted to give a word of warning. Safety stuff. Remember, I said I am an amateur at this pig stuff. Not an expert… and we are talking about a Boar here…so you do have to keep in mind that it is sort of like making friends with a bull… or me for that matter. We are complex bundles of ancient instincts, hormones and luggage.
               



                  We also learned what the term, Pig Headed means. When he is at something he wants…he is all instinct and cannot be dissuaded. Slaps, punches or kicks will not change his mind. He is just too solid to feel any of that…and he will only get bigger.
               



                  So it is important for us all to not “Babe, The Pig” this story too much. There is a reason why pig farmers bring a pointy stick when interacting with there hogs…and occasionally a pig eats a farmer…or a child.
               



                  Someone sent a note that is worth you all reading as a cautionary tale to put some balance into my story. It read,
               



                  “Hey, really enjoyed your post about MR Woo

                  BUT

                  I have a friend who had a very very nice boar who would do the roll and scratch thing

                  Mine did that too.

                  But one day his pig went into “rut” (that’s what they call it)

                  And his friendly li’l 80-90kg pal sent a tusk UNDER his KNEECAP and chased him up a pecan tree

                  he escaped, eventually and spent 10 days in hospital

                  He advised me to dispatch my uncastrated boar, and I did, once he got scary (which was after his lady friend gave birth)

                  Maybe if you never breed with him, he’d be ok, I don’t know.

                  But I just wanted to give you this heads up.I have a four month old uncastrated boar which I am going to swap with another neighbor who has the same

                  and after I’m sure the work is done, I’ll dispatch him, which will probably be in six months.I’ll be sad, but me and my kids will be safe”
               



                  Well, My public service announcement is done. Like most things, You have to weigh the risk to benefit part. You have to assess your own abilities and manage risk. A chainsaw is extremely dangerous. Its also damned useful. So, it has to be used with caution and respect.
               



                  When I first started writing this, I was in the middle of a health crisis. I figured I had a responsibility to pass this on fast. C5 Rule of Survival- If your only goal is Survival…You have a ZERO percent chance of success. Live a good life. Its far easier to live with.
               



                  Rumors of my demise were greatly exaggerated.
               



                  Soooo. I still have a responsibility to continue this post. Good news. Mr. Wu cruncher on some Jerusalem Artichokes or Sunchokes recently and…finally…decided he liked them. With winter approaching, I guess a complex carbohydrate and starch became appealing. Double good news because sunchokes are highly invasive. They are an ultimate survival food for guerilla gardeners. Old School survivalism. Plant and forget. But highly invasive. You will never fully dig them out.
               



                  Now that he recognizes sunchokes as food…he IS digging them himself. Pig to the food instead of food to the pig. Still, I’m storing them in buckets, for the winter, of half sunchokes and half dirt.
               



                  Now, another commenter had written,”This is where, as a permie, I would take a serious look at the dietary diversity and history of the native cultures of your region. Somehow, all of those indigenous cultures were grooving along just fine without Euro foods.” I will add that many survivalist leaning “A’hunin and A’fishin like granpappy and the brave frontiersmen” types will say, “Why bother with all this work?”
               



                  I thought I would nip this in the swollen, unwashed anus.
               



                  Goddess bless the First Nations. In My Blessing the First nations…we really have to ditch the myth of returning to ” dietary diversity and history of the native cultures of your region. Somehow, all of those indigenous cultures were grooving along just fine without Euro foods”. I have written about this recently enough but should badger it again. Those food sources ARE GONE…and have been for quite a while.
               



                  Example. The First Nations in my recently adopted region…in pre colonial invasion days…a staple food source was the passenger pidgin. I bring it up because most people recognize the name and that it is now extinct….but that doesn’t really paint the real picture. Try to imagine the sky so thick with passenger pigeons and other fat filled foul that it would occasionally block out the sun. Imagine Fish stocks so thick that they would occasionally stop fishing boats against a wall and fishermen reporting they could walk on them. Seals in the billions…etc
               



                  Those day are gone. Trying to return to those days is a false narrative. The forests are now mono cultures…ad a shitload of people. I’m not dissing traditional skills…just pointing out the obvious. Most of the species we take for granted almost went extinct or actually did go extinct in areas during the Great Depression and had to be reintroduced with the hunting rules we have today. There is ALOT more people today. I use American Numbers to get my point across.

                  C5 Rule of Survival- “30 million Deer in America. 350 million people. One deer per person per month strictly rationed. You do the unworkable math and Prep accordingly.”

                  I’m not trying to be an argumentative dick. Im trying to save peoples lives that are looking at …being a fake indian…as a survival fall back option. The First Nations have plenty to teach us. Philosophy. Community. Endurance. Unfortunately they can also teach us about starvation…and the near death of a culture because of it. The invaders destroyed the food source to destroy the culture.
               



                  Now imagine 350 million hungry people deciding that going after 30 million deer is a good idea. In a real modern crisis….Ild give the deer about two weeks before they were extinct….forever. Other species follow.
               



                  Another commentor added, “I see your point, but the way I see it , after I look around at most of those 350 million folks, I am betting that 3/4 of them will be gone within a couple of months as they have no idea how to live without everything being delivered to t

Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on May 17, 2018, 08:01:29 AM
I knew it wouldn't be easy to load my pigs in a trailer. I only got three adults in there, for the first trip to the auction sale. I caught a bunch of piglets by hand and tossed them over the top.

I was not prepared for the way the big ones fought to the death to go anywhere except into the trailer. I learned that the loading chute should have no visible exits. The went for the gates, which were of the galvanized 3/4 inch tubing variety they sell at Tractor Supply, and tried to dive between the bars.

They bent the gates up and basically knocked them right off the hinges, which turned out to be the weakest point. And they were stout gates I installed myself, the right way.

I tried to let my two Heelers help, but they lack the training that comes with watching older dogs do what needs to be done. In stead of putting the pigs in the trailer, THEY got in the trailer. Very obedient. LOL.

Monday I have to try again. I am going to starve the pigs for an extra day and bait the trailer with corn and try to trap them.

It sucked watching the animals I raised experience the terror of the load-out experience. And then I got almost nothing for the stock at the sale, which was expected. I wasn't even sure they'd take them. The hired hand in the intake area didn't recognize the breed and thought I was trying to sell feral pigs, which is not allowed. I had to educate him and he had to call his boss. It's a long ass drive with the trailer.

Not the way I was hoping my pig raising experience would go, but I learned a lot. If I can't get them in the trailer, I'll see if I can give some away. If they'e free, I expect I'll have no trouble finding people to load them themselves.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on May 17, 2018, 08:27:51 AM
I knew it wouldn't be easy to load my pigs in a trailer. I only got three adults in there, for the first trip to the auction sale. I caught a bunch of piglets by hand and tossed them over the top.

I was not prepared for the way the big ones fought to the death to go anywhere except into the trailer. I learned that the loading chute should have no visible exits. The went for the gates, which were of the galvanized 3/4 inch tubing variety they sell at Tractor Supply, and tried to dive between the bars.

They bent the gates up and basically knocked them right off the hinges, which turned out to be the weakest point. And they were stout gates I installed myself, the right way.

I tried to let my two Heelers help, but they lack the training that comes with watching older dogs do what needs to be done. In stead of putting the pigs in the trailer, THEY got in the trailer. Very obedient. LOL.

Monday I have to try again. I am going to starve the pigs for an extra day and bait the trailer with corn and try to trap them.

It sucked watching the animals I raised experience the terror of the load-out experience. And then I got almost nothing for the stock at the sale, which was expected. I wasn't even sure they'd take them. The hired hand in the intake area didn't recognize the breed and thought I was trying to sell feral pigs, which is not allowed. I had to educate him and he had to call his boss. It's a long ass drive with the trailer.

Not the way I was hoping my pig raising experience would go, but I learned a lot. If I can't get them in the trailer, I'll see if I can give some away. If they'e free, I expect I'll have no trouble finding people to load them themselves.

You should butcher them and we can sell them on the Diner like Omaha Steaks does .

(http://d10te8zw0kkj08.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/photo-3-e1371235372273.jpg)

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Surly1 on May 17, 2018, 08:49:34 AM
I knew it wouldn't be easy to load my pigs in a trailer. I only got three adults in there, for the first trip to the auction sale. I caught a bunch of piglets by hand and tossed them over the top.

I was not prepared for the way the big ones fought to the death to go anywhere except into the trailer. I learned that the loading chute should have no visible exits. The went for the gates, which were of the galvanized 3/4 inch tubing variety they sell at Tractor Supply, and tried to dive between the bars.

They bent the gates up and basically knocked them right off the hinges, which turned out to be the weakest point. And they were stout gates I installed myself, the right way.

I tried to let my two Heelers help, but they lack the training that comes with watching older dogs do what needs to be done. In stead of putting the pigs in the trailer, THEY got in the trailer. Very obedient. LOL.

Monday I have to try again. I am going to starve the pigs for an extra day and bait the trailer with corn and try to trap them.

It sucked watching the animals I raised experience the terror of the load-out experience. And then I got almost nothing for the stock at the sale, which was expected. I wasn't even sure they'd take them. The hired hand in the intake area didn't recognize the breed and thought I was trying to sell feral pigs, which is not allowed. I had to educate him and he had to call his boss. It's a long ass drive with the trailer.

Not the way I was hoping my pig raising experience would go, but I learned a lot. If I can't get them in the trailer, I'll see if I can give some away. If they'e free, I expect I'll have no trouble finding people to load them themselves.

Eddie, between you and C5...

Quote
All this hands on relationship completely changes the relationship. It had always been, I pop this guy in the fall and he goes in the freezer. Then that day came when he plopped down onto my feet and rolled over to have his belly scratched, exposing himself in the same way my dogs would. The second time he did itI went, You Bastard. You are going to fuck me up. How can I shoot you? Now that was always the intention. He was always food and had a time limit. I am Survivalist enough that I could shoot and eat my dogs if I had toobut doing so would hurt my soul and I would have to carry that. I carry too much already. Now the pig trusts and loves me as if he were one of my dogs. I can do it if I have tobut dont ask me to. I need a friend that is not invested emotionally in him to pop him for me. I can handle the rest. I just cant handle betraying him. This is a common problem for pig farmers. Because of this, a common practice is to trade pigs with another farmer. Killing and eating a pig is fine. Killing and eating the one you became emotionally involved with can be difficult.

I have learned more about pigs than I ever knew, not being a son of the soil.

What an adventure...

This is clearly a challenging gig, because the pigs are so smart. No wonder so many of the younger generation are becoming vegetarians.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on May 17, 2018, 03:07:42 PM
I knew it wouldn't be easy to load my pigs in a trailer. 

Not the way I was hoping my pig raising experience would go, but I learned a lot. If I can't get them in the trailer, I'll see if I can give some away. If they'e free, I expect I'll have no trouble finding people to load them themselves.

Eddie, between you and C5...


I have learned more about pigs than I ever knew, not being a son of the soil.

What an adventure...

This is clearly a challenging gig, because the pigs are so smart. No wonder so many of the younger generation are becoming vegetarians.

Re snuck this post up on me. I have an interview with Farmgal coming up soon.
Eddie, I didnt want to say nuttin... but I thought this was about to come up... and I figured I should just hang in the background. I remember this part.

A small part of this is that they dont know an electic fence isnt still in the way. Ild take the fence down and they still wouldnt leave the enclosure.

Surly, alot a vegetarians are in for a rude awakening when they figure out their Quimoa is shipped in from Peru and the deisle necessary for any quantity of grains can only be replaced by...It cant be replaced. Their will be alot of involuntary vegetarians. Their will probably be some cannibalism as well. I hear Vegans taste better. I wonder what wine goes with that. Probably requires a pressure cooker though like roosters and old hens. Even they are smart enough not to be vegetarian.

Believe it or not , MrsC5 wants pigs again, inspite of our trauma. We just need to find a breed much smaller and more manageable. And only enough for us. This small farm idea for profit is bullshit. That is a subject bubbling under the surface that should come out once someone is brave enough to say it out loud. I know some saying it in the shadows
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on May 17, 2018, 03:19:21 PM
I know some saying it in the shadows

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Surly1 on May 17, 2018, 03:48:15 PM

Surly, alot a vegetarians are in for a rude awakening when they figure out their Quimoa is shipped in from Peru and the deisle necessary for any quantity of grains can only be replaced by...It cant be replaced. Their will be alot of involuntary vegetarians. Their will probably be some cannibalism as well. I hear Vegans taste better. I wonder what wine goes with that. Probably requires a pressure cooker though like roosters and old hens. Even they are smart enough not to be vegetarian.

C5, "The 'long pig that speaks,' when the drums beat till dawn and wild dances maddened the blood" is a Marquesan delicacy that has also been enjoyed at many times and by many tribes. And if you regard Cormac McCarthy's "The road" as likely prophecy, it may well be again.

Vegetarians will be a better choice, since our position on top of the food chain leads to the absorption of harmful chemicals, heavy metals, pesticides and variant forms of Republican policy ideas. As to wine, not sure whether long pig is red meat or white. Perhaps deferring to expertise, we should choose a chianti when we get to the liver.

(https://i1.wp.com/othersidepodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/wine.png?resize=1038%2C576)

But then I might be mistaken.

Wine pairing for zombies: Which wines go best with human flesh?
 (https://io9.gizmodo.com/5918888/wine-pairing-for-zombies-which-wines-go-best-with-human-flesh)

Quote
But forget your notions about enjoying a man's liver with a nice chianti, says wine connaisseur Chris McGurn:

"I would personally avoid this, as the Chianti might be a little too light for the fattiness of the liver," he told The Huffington Post. "A Barolo would be a much better choice of Italian wine."

I'll handle the marketing: "Long Pig: It's Not Just for the Donner Party Anymore."
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on May 17, 2018, 04:00:19 PM
I knew it wouldn't be easy to load my pigs in a trailer. 

Not the way I was hoping my pig raising experience would go, but I learned a lot. If I can't get them in the trailer, I'll see if I can give some away. If they'e free, I expect I'll have no trouble finding people to load them themselves.

Eddie, between you and C5...


I have learned more about pigs than I ever knew, not being a son of the soil.

What an adventure...

This is clearly a challenging gig, because the pigs are so smart. No wonder so many of the younger generation are becoming vegetarians.

Re snuck this post up on me. I have an interview with Farmgal coming up soon.
Eddie, I didnt want to say nuttin... but I thought this was about to come up... and I figured I should just hang in the background. I remember this part.

A small part of this is that they dont know an electic fence isnt still in the way. Ild take the fence down and they still wouldnt leave the enclosure.

Surly, alot a vegetarians are in for a rude awakening when they figure out their Quimoa is shipped in from Peru and the deisle necessary for any quantity of grains can only be replaced by...It cant be replaced. Their will be alot of involuntary vegetarians. Their will probably be some cannibalism as well. I hear Vegans taste better. I wonder what wine goes with that. Probably requires a pressure cooker though like roosters and old hens. Even they are smart enough not to be vegetarian.

Believe it or not , MrsC5 wants pigs again, inspite of our trauma. We just need to find a breed much smaller and more manageable. And only enough for us. This small farm idea for profit is bullshit. That is a subject bubbling under the surface that should come out once someone is brave enough to say it out loud. I know some saying it in the shadows
I'm supposed to take the second half of the year off. Or mostly off or kind of off. Well at least as close as I can. Maybe get some stuff done that is banging around in my head. On the list was a pig. I thought the pot bellied pig would be the winner. they top out at 100-150 lbs and end up overwhelming the pet owners who got them young and cute. You see classified adds for them all the time cheap or free; of course there is usually a stipulation that they are not for food... I think I will put it off this year and see how the girls do when it comes time to kill off all the male chicks. Darcy was quite clear that she is ok with killing all the boys except one but wants to keep the girls. They show up June 26th. As to gardening for profit I get annoyed this time of year. Its cottage season and without fail this year someone will stop by wanting to buy something or saying I should sell some vegetables. I get annoyed because you cannot even start explaining to them how much work goes into the garden and how they can't afford it... Conditioned by cheap food they just lack the worldview to understand just how time consuming real food is. Its cheap if we eat it or give it to friends but would have to be priced out of contention to make a "profit"...
I envy you your swine gentlemen.
David
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on May 17, 2018, 04:41:14 PM

Surly, alot a vegetarians are in for a rude awakening when they figure out their Quimoa is shipped in from Peru and the deisle necessary for any quantity of grains can only be replaced by...It cant be replaced. Their will be alot of involuntary vegetarians. Their will probably be some cannibalism as well. I hear Vegans taste better. I wonder what wine goes with that. Probably requires a pressure cooker though like roosters and old hens. Even they are smart enough not to be vegetarian.

C5, "The 'long pig that speaks,' when the drums beat till dawn and wild dances maddened the blood" is a Marquesan delicacy that has also been enjoyed at many times and by many tribes. And if you regard Cormac McCarthy's "The road" as likely prophecy, it may well be again.

Vegetarians will be a better choice, since our position on top of the food chain leads to the absorption of harmful chemicals, heavy metals, pesticides and variant forms of Republican policy ideas. As to wine, not sure whether long pig is red meat or white. Perhaps deferring to expertise, we should choose a chianti when we get to the liver.

(https://i1.wp.com/othersidepodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/wine.png?resize=1038,576)

But then I might be mistaken.

Wine pairing for zombies: Which wines go best with human flesh?
 (https://io9.gizmodo.com/5918888/wine-pairing-for-zombies-which-wines-go-best-with-human-flesh)

Quote
But forget your notions about enjoying a man's liver with a nice chianti, says wine connaisseur Chris McGurn:

"I would personally avoid this, as the Chianti might be a little too light for the fattiness of the liver," he told The Huffington Post. "A Barolo would be a much better choice of Italian wine."

I'll handle the marketing: "Long Pig: It's Not Just for the Donner Party Anymore."

Hannibal the Cannibal recommended Chianti to go with your Long Pig.

http://www.youtube.com/v/SEQZiElLp-E

Where the grapes will come from to make the Chianti I have no idea, but I do have a few bottles of wine in the preps.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a8/0c/bf/a80cbfc89410065b91ec71e6e321e212.jpg)

Far as the cut I will try first, it will probably be a BBQ of either the rib portion of the dead carcass or the the loin portion.  Then I will try a slow cooker stew of the shoulder portion, boneless with the bone space stuffed with veggies and herbs from the garden, and topped with homemade Tomato Sauce from the garden, Mushroom from under the shed area where they gorw best and pop up whenever we have a damp cool mornng, with a crown of Cheese from our two very annoying and stubborn goats, Lydia and Sue.  There is no connection between these names and any women I have had long relationships with. lol.  I am not a misogynisr!  I just hit the statistical problem of too many assholes of any gender to tolerate, and women are half of the lot.  Legs I will smoke as Hams.

Anyhow, by the time I finish with the herb stuffing and the tomato sauce and cheese, you won't be able to tell the difference between this meal and Veal Parmiagana at the Olive Garden.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on May 17, 2018, 05:09:28 PM
Sooooo..... how about that local sports team....

I say, take advantage of that pot bellied pig thing. Bad for meat. Good for lard.


I have a peak life experience that involves some sneaky redneck socialist revolutionaries, A pot bellied pig, that the male owner came up afterwards and said, "I hope you eat the fucker. He almost killed my rottweiler", drug dealers shooting a hole in their rental vehicle, hippies tackling a  drunk guy with a chainsaw, some explosions and CISIS, Canada's version of the CIA/FBI swarming the area. Good times. Each time one of those parties ended, everyones thoughts were, "Thank god nobody died". 

Peak life experience
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on May 17, 2018, 05:48:22 PM
What? No comments. LOL
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on May 17, 2018, 06:20:25 PM
Nope you have the market cornered on crazy. Around here just your regular gun crazy atv riding deer hunting don't ask don't tell types.
I'd probably end up keeping a pig for a pet and a second for food. I think the lard would be a draw not a problem. I know I have enough food waste for at least one. I want the girls to experience livestock. It will have to play second  fiddle this year to the tractor work. 1 acre plowed on charcoal is the goal. Not sure if we plant anything or just cultivate it.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on May 18, 2018, 08:47:05 AM
What? No comments. LOL

When we had the first conclave at my place, I deliberately chose to keep firearms, explosives, and drugs (other than a tiny bit of cannabis) out of it. I keep my weapons under lock and key, most of the time. Good decision. LOL.

The few Diners who came (many from far away, and everyone nervous about whether it was even a good idea) were somewhat muted in their party response. But we had a good time. I still have my party hat. We drank a respectable amount of beer, and we all went to class together for a week. So we had something to focus on.

When RE bankrolled the 2nd conclave, we had tons of the best food you can imagine, a beautiful retreat location, and after the civilians went home, we all (well most of us) jumped in the lake in the middle of the night and had a swim. People came from as far away as Alaska and London.

Low key, but still a peak experience. One I shall never forget.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on May 18, 2018, 09:03:04 AM
What? No comments. LOL

When we had the first conclave at my place, I deliberately chose to keep firearms, explosives, and drugs (other than a tiny bit of cannabis) out of it. I keep my weapons under lock and key, most of the time. Good decision. LOL.

The few Diners who came (many from far away, and everyone nervous about whether it was even a good idea) were somewhat muted in their party response. But we had a good time. I still have my party hat. We drank a respectable amount of beer, and we all went to class together for a week. So we had something to focus on.

When RE bankrolled the 2nd conclave, we had tons of the best food you can imagine, a beautiful retreat location, and after the civilians went home, we all (well most of us) jumped in the lake in the middle of the night and had a swim. People came from as far away as Alaska and London.

Low key, but still a peak experience. One I shall never forget.

For me, both experiences were Peak, but I don't think any will ever beat the first one.  I left that one in tears because I knew something like that would never come again for me, in this iteration of my corporeal self at any rate.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on May 18, 2018, 09:55:18 AM
I'm glad. I never realized it meant that much to you. We have time for one more, probably. Soon.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: farmgal on June 08, 2018, 09:09:52 AM
Then you have 3 chest freezers and turn them off when not needed. Cold Rooms unless purpose built are a energy pig....

Well, it all depends on the space you need and how often you need it of course.  Also there are convenience factors involved.  With the freezers, to store the meat you're going to have to do a full butchery to pack it tight.  With a cold room, you can just gut and clean the pig and hang it up on a hook.

Eddie probably is not at the point he need a cold room, and he's talking about quitting the piggy bizness also.  So yea, the Chinese Freezer makes more sense.
RE

Hi, I have at times been caught with more meat then I need for freezer space (and yes freezers are power hogs)  it happens when you need to process larger amounts and curing brines are my rescue. Salt and Sugar mixed with water and you hold your extra meats till finish curing and hanging to dry or till you can get to them for canning or drying them.   I try and keep at least a thousand pounds of salt on the homestead at all times just in case and work though it, I just buy 50 pound bags of pure salt in bulk from the feed store and store it.  I have a few food grade plastic barrels with lid that gets held down and go.  Its the best way I have found around holding in heat or lack of freezer space while working though it.

Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: farmgal on June 08, 2018, 09:48:31 AM
Sooooo..... how about that local sports team....

I say, take advantage of that pot bellied pig thing. Bad for meat. Good for lard.


I have a peak life experience that involves some sneaky redneck socialist revolutionaries, A pot bellied pig, that the male owner came up afterwards and said, "I hope you eat the fucker. He almost killed my rottweiler", drug dealers shooting a hole in their rental vehicle, hippies tackling a  drunk guy with a chainsaw, some explosions and CISIS, Canada's version of the CIA/FBI swarming the area. Good times. Each time one of those parties ended, everyones thoughts were, "Thank god nobody died". 


So I have done pot belly pigs, some good things about them, some bad things about them and I prefer my big pigs at this time but I would go back to pot belly in heart beat if I thought things were going south! Anyway, I have this lovely moveable wooden panel set up with a little shelter that you can pull around and allow the pigs to clean out 160 feet of garden space at a time.

 Anyway, I had the most bratty little female potbelly adult in there with a young big male. He was so easy to train.. as most big pigs are.. and she was not.. she was a free piglet to me but she had been born on a farm and slipped the fence and had pretty much raised herself in the bush and was a wild thing. She would never learn to lead, but she liked her treats, so if you threw a cookie or two into a 55 gallon barrel she would go in, and you could just tip upright and move her that way.

Anyway I go out and somehow the locking part didn't quite get right and they were out.. and they had just gone though a freshly planted strawberry garden of over 300 plants.. (think the air is blue with not so nice words) but I call Red the male and he comes right up for his banana and into the pen.. but little female..

Her and I went round and round for almost three hours.. then I went and got the rifle.. hubby pulled in after work with me finishing up the butcher.. lol and went.. huh? didn't know you planned on that today?


Peak life experience
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 08, 2018, 10:29:23 AM
Too bad we can't do that with recalcitrant Diners. 

I was wondering how you handle the weight of the big pigs when you slaughter one of those. Block and tackle? Front end loader?

 I woosed out on slaughtering this spring and now it's too hot here really, but I have a serious problem with overpopulation. I really at least need to harvest a couple of the spring litter males.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: farmgal on June 08, 2018, 10:47:11 AM
Too bad we can't do that with recalcitrant Diners. 

I was wondering how you handle the weight of the big pigs when you slaughter one of those. Block and tackle? Front end loader?

 I woosed out on slaughtering this spring and now it's too hot here really, but I have a serious problem with overpopulation. I really at least need to harvest a couple of the spring litter males.

The biggest pig I have butchered was around 800 pounds give or take but I have done 1400-1600 pounds steers, I had to order in new equipment because everything I had was maxed at a thousand pounds but now I can go to 2000.  I haul them out to the front with my horse, I have done it proper with full harness but I often just put the saddle and breastplate on and tie to my saddle and skid it out. Then we either lift it over a tree limb with either horse or truck and tie it off and go from there..

The steer can be to heavy for that, in which case we do a field dress and we quartered it out and then hung those and worked from there.. I treat the bigger steers like I would a moose pretty much. Good luck on your males, are they fixed? or are you looking at boar taint if they get much more growth on them?
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 08, 2018, 10:56:54 AM
Too bad we can't do that with recalcitrant Diners. 

I was wondering how you handle the weight of the big pigs when you slaughter one of those. Block and tackle? Front end loader?

 I woosed out on slaughtering this spring and now it's too hot here really, but I have a serious problem with overpopulation. I really at least need to harvest a couple of the spring litter males.

The biggest pig I have butchered was around 800 pounds give or take but I have done 1400-1600 pounds steers, I had to order in new equipment because everything I had was maxed at a thousand pounds but now I can go to 2000.  I haul them out to the front with my horse, I have done it proper with full harness but I often just put the saddle and breastplate on and tie to my saddle and skid it out. Then we either lift it over a tree limb with either horse or truck and tie it off and go from there..

The steer can be to heavy for that, in which case we do a field dress and we quartered it out and then hung those and worked from there.. I treat the bigger steers like I would a moose pretty much. Good luck on your males, are they fixed? or are you looking at boar taint if they get much more growth on them?

How about using automotive engine lifting equipment?  With a decent winch and a portable crane you can lift 5,000 lb no problem.  Not expensive either.

BTW, :hi: to the Diner.  :icon_sunny:

RE

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 08, 2018, 11:02:03 AM
or are you looking at boar taint if they get much more growth on them?


Yes, unfortunately.

I was raising my Mangalitsas to sell for breeding stock, but local farm people don't seem to have much money this year. I don't think these little guys are sexually mature enough yet for it to be a problem, but I'm not sure when it gets to be an issue. Fortunately, I like my sausage with a lot of cayenne pepper.

Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 08, 2018, 11:06:57 AM
Moose.

It must be cool to live in a place where there are moose. We got white tail deer and wild turkeys. And probably feral hogs soon, if I don't get control of my experiment.

My Dad could work a team, but I never got much experience. I remember him letting me plow a couple of rows when I was young. So much I wish I'd paid better attention towards.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on June 08, 2018, 11:52:25 AM
Too bad we can't do that with recalcitrant Diners. 

I was wondering how you handle the weight of the big pigs when you slaughter one of those. Block and tackle? Front end loader?

 I woosed out on slaughtering this spring and now it's too hot here really, but I have a serious problem with overpopulation. I really at least need to harvest a couple of the spring litter males.

The biggest pig I have butchered was around 800 pounds give or take but I have done 1400-1600 pounds steers, I had to order in new equipment because everything I had was maxed at a thousand pounds but now I can go to 2000.  I haul them out to the front with my horse, I have done it proper with full harness but I often just put the saddle and breastplate on and tie to my saddle and skid it out. Then we either lift it over a tree limb with either horse or truck and tie it off and go from there..

The steer can be to heavy for that, in which case we do a field dress and we quartered it out and then hung those and worked from there.. I treat the bigger steers like I would a moose pretty much. Good luck on your males, are they fixed? or are you looking at boar taint if they get much more growth on them?

Sooooo........... No one can say I ever over sold farmgal. LOLOLOLOLOL.

Farmgal sort of makes me feel like this... and not the green guy.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsUCRcK7QYc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsUCRcK7QYc)
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 08, 2018, 12:09:32 PM
Sooooo........... No one can say I ever over sold farmgal.

I'll wait to see the VIDS before I render a decision on this. :P

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 08, 2018, 01:03:03 PM
Too bad we can't do that with recalcitrant Diners. 

I was wondering how you handle the weight of the big pigs when you slaughter one of those. Block and tackle? Front end loader?

 I woosed out on slaughtering this spring and now it's too hot here really, but I have a serious problem with overpopulation. I really at least need to harvest a couple of the spring litter males.

The biggest pig I have butchered was around 800 pounds give or take but I have done 1400-1600 pounds steers, I had to order in new equipment because everything I had was maxed at a thousand pounds but now I can go to 2000.  I haul them out to the front with my horse, I have done it proper with full harness but I often just put the saddle and breastplate on and tie to my saddle and skid it out. Then we either lift it over a tree limb with either horse or truck and tie it off and go from there..

The steer can be to heavy for that, in which case we do a field dress and we quartered it out and then hung those and worked from there.. I treat the bigger steers like I would a moose pretty much. Good luck on your males, are they fixed? or are you looking at boar taint if they get much more growth on them?

Sooooo........... No one can say I ever over sold farmgal. LOLOLOLOLOL.

Farmgal sort of makes me feel like this... and not the green guy.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsUCRcK7QYc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsUCRcK7QYc)

You can just tell pretty quick whether somebody has real skills (farmgal) or whether they're a dilettante (me).

I will admit for just one second I wondered if you were talking about that other farm girl, you know, the one that likes to run around semi-nekked on utoob.

Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: farmgal on June 08, 2018, 03:33:54 PM
LOL, the only one that gets me run around half-naked is Dear Hubby.. I am not her :)

I don't have lot of video's, a few and I am trying to learn to do short ones more.. but its fair point, you can see a lot in video's compared to photos. Well crafted pretty photos.. I have a bad habit of showing both sides of this looks good and this did not work, I have heard from my fellow bloggers that I should move over to pretty photos but I still take my more raw ones, they might not be as perfect for media use.. However they do show what I am trying to talk about or explain.

However if you want to take the time, there are seven years worth of posts (with over 3,000 posts over that time frame), photos and a few tiny video's on my blog and you can see the development on gardens, homestead and projects. There is also a ton of recipes.. and odd little challenges.

Like one year I did all kinds of months challenges to do meat curing, everything fish to corn beef hash to sausages you get the idea.. then one year I decided to work nose to tail eating.. so there is recipes like Duck Blood Soup, how to fake out people with lung soup and make it so that folks thing the lung is pasta in the soup and a really good burdock leaf stuff spleen recipe in there.

From a prepper stand point, I think the march challange is very interesting. I have no buy feb (just what it sounds like.. don't spend money) and then I leap into with a leaner house into a live off your pantry and farm for a month.. This has proven to outstanding in find gaps in my storage or farm planning.

Interesting comment about the engine lift, I have access to that, never thought of it to be honest, Its not that hard to do a field dress. However its worth considering if I ever feel I can't do my normal.

Its a true fact for sure that farmers locally (at least in my area as well) have less money to work with and they getting much more careful where it gets spent.. however I am finding backyard fowl and meat rabbits are selling well as is garden seeds and plants still. I have always been able to market my pasture raised lamb as farm gate sales. I do my best to cut out the middle man whenever possable.

C5, no one can live up that statement.. I am human, I make mistakes, I have things that I failed at and keeping learning all the time..  Always working and re-working the skills and learning more..  but thank you for the kind words..
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on June 08, 2018, 05:24:17 PM
That should be diner code from now on. Whenever someone is acting all knowing we just say: "puny god". I like riding horses twice a decade... I do like my old tractors though. Here is my own spring puny god moment. Sunk to the frame in the bog.  I had to jack it up one wheel at a time several times then gave up and built a corduroy road in front of it... many many blue words were voiced mostly in french. Around here they usually lift moose and cows with front end loaders. I understand you mostly try to do without it. Welcome to the diner farmgal...I'll have to check out your back catalogue.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 08, 2018, 06:05:20 PM

However if you want to take the time, there are seven years worth of posts (with over 3,000 posts over that time frame), photos and a few tiny video's on my blog and you can see the development on gardens, homestead and projects. There is also a ton of recipes.. and odd little challenges.

I'll make you a deal.  I'll read your 3000 posts  over 7 years if you read my 32,000 on the Diner forum over 6.5 years, plus the 300 or so full length blogs, plus the 200-300 Audio & Video interviews and rants I did over the same time period.  ;D

Of course, I am not a Permie or a Farmer, my main interest in Collapse comes from the Economics end, so you're probably not that interested in that stuff.  Nowadays I write about food a lot, but from the cooking end, not the producing end.  How to cook well and do it cheap.

I am a prepper, but I have no ambitions to last longer than my preps do.  I already have one foot in the grave with BAU ongoing.  If I could last as long as my preps theoretically can after SHTF Day arrives, that would be a miracle.

Meanwhile, it's interesting to hear your stories here, even if you have to retell them.  I have rewritten stuff I wrote before more times than I can count to bring newbies up to speed.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: farmgal on June 08, 2018, 06:15:01 PM
That should be diner code from now on. Whenever someone is acting all knowing we just say: "puny god". I like riding horses twice a decade... I do like my old tractors though. Here is my own spring puny god moment. Sunk to the frame in the bog.  I had to jack it up one wheel at a time several times then gave up and built a corduroy road in front of it... many many blue words were voiced mostly in french. Around here they usually lift moose and cows with front end loaders. I understand you mostly try to do without it. Welcome to the diner farmgal...

one.. to funny on the puny god lol

two, I think you could tell some stories around the fire from the sounds of it.. I remember my niece saying to me after we used the winch on the quad (I have no power toys, my brothers have them all) that the amount of times you get stuck add's to the fun.

ya, winches an front end loaders make things easier for sure.  question for you. Do most of the hunters in your area self-process or do they send it out to be done?
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: farmgal on June 08, 2018, 06:24:06 PM

However if you want to take the time, there are seven years worth of posts (with over 3,000 posts over that time frame), photos and a few tiny video's on my blog and you can see the development on gardens, homestead and projects. There is also a ton of recipes.. and odd little challenges.

I'll make you a deal.  I'll read your 3000 posts  over 7 years if you read my 32,000 on the Diner forum over 6.5 years, plus the 300 or so full length blogs, plus the 200-300 Audio & Video interviews and rants I did over the same time period.  ;D

Of course, I am not a Permie or a Farmer, my main interest in Collapse comes from the Economics end, so you're probably not that interested in that stuff.  Nowadays I write about food a lot, but from the cooking end, not the producing end.  How to cook well and do it cheap.

I am a prepper, but I have no ambitions to last longer than my preps do.  I already have one foot in the grave with BAU ongoing.  If I could last as long as my preps theoretically can after SHTF Day arrives, that would be a miracle.

Meanwhile, it's interesting to hear your stories here, even if you have to retell them.  I have rewritten stuff I wrote before more times than I can count to bring newbies up to speed.

RE

wow, bow given, mad writer skills.. Blessing to all that sharing..

Bau ongoing? I will try and do some reading up and get a feel for things, but I am sorry that there is a ongoing health issue. I will be very interested in reading up on your food stuff.. however I will also look forward to finding time to read some of your Economics posts as well.

Hubby travels at times for work, a lot more years ago then now but he brings home the most interesting books from the airport over the years. i have a feeling i will find some cross over between your writing and thoughts and others that have come in. we will see if i am right?

Thanks for the warm welcome.. night y'all
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on June 08, 2018, 07:05:46 PM
That should be diner code from now on. Whenever someone is acting all knowing we just say: "puny god". I like riding horses twice a decade... I do like my old tractors though. Here is my own spring puny god moment. Sunk to the frame in the bog.  I had to jack it up one wheel at a time several times then gave up and built a corduroy road in front of it... many many blue words were voiced mostly in french. Around here they usually lift moose and cows with front end loaders. I understand you mostly try to do without it. Welcome to the diner farmgal...

one.. to funny on the puny god lol

two, I think you could tell some stories around the fire from the sounds of it.. I remember my niece saying to me after we used the winch on the quad (I have no power toys, my brothers have them all) that the amount of times you get stuck add's to the fun.

ya, winches an front end loaders make things easier for sure.  question for you. Do most of the hunters in your area self-process or do they send it out to be done?
that is a very good question. For deer most locals who hunt alone or in small groups process themselves. For those who grew up here but only visit and do the whole hunt camp thing they farm it out to local butchers. For moose mostly it's done in groups since there are not enough tags to go around. I have two near neighbours who process moose but they are dying out. Mostly the groups usually farm it out. I have not hunted deer since I was in my teens and only beat the bushes even then. Moose... never. As a carpenter in the country I've been paid in both though. About getting stuck I really try not to get stuck it wastes fuel and time. I do take satisfaction in getting unstuck though.
Cheers,  David B
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 08, 2018, 08:13:59 PM
That should be diner code from now on. Whenever someone is acting all knowing we just say: "puny god". I like riding horses twice a decade... I do like my old tractors though. Here is my own spring puny god moment. Sunk to the frame in the bog.  I had to jack it up one wheel at a time several times then gave up and built a corduroy road in front of it... many many blue words were voiced mostly in french. Around here they usually lift moose and cows with front end loaders. I understand you mostly try to do without it. Welcome to the diner farmgal...

one.. to funny on the puny god lol

two, I think you could tell some stories around the fire from the sounds of it.. I remember my niece saying to me after we used the winch on the quad (I have no power toys, my brothers have them all) that the amount of times you get stuck add's to the fun.

ya, winches an front end loaders make things easier for sure.  question for you. Do most of the hunters in your area self-process or do they send it out to be done?
that is a very good question. For deer most locals who hunt alone or in small groups process themselves. For those who grew up here but only visit and do the whole hunt camp thing they farm it out to local butchers. For moose mostly it's done in groups since there are not enough tags to go around. I have two near neighbours who process moose but they are dying out. Mostly the groups usually farm it out. I have not hunted deer since I was in my teens and only beat the bushes even then. Moose... never. As a carpenter in the country I've been paid in both though. About getting stuck I really try not to get stuck it wastes fuel and time. I do take satisfaction in getting unstuck though.
Cheers,  David B

Around here, it depends where you live.  Anybody who lives outside the main population centers processes themself.  Most of the people who do subsistence hunting and fishing process themselves.  If you are paying a butcher to do this for you, that kills a good percentage of the savings you get by knocking down your own Moose.

We do of course have plenty of people who fly up from the Lower 48 to hunt and fish, they virtually all have one of the commercial operations do the processing.  Down in Kenai during season, lots of guys set up shop to process the catch of the touristas right off the boat.  You should see how fast some of these guys can fillet a King Salmon!  It's unbelievable.

For the guys who go out after Big Horn Sheep in the remote areas, they have to field dress to get the meat back to civilization.  Usually they fly in and out via float plane, but you still have to hump the meat back to where the plane can land.  It has to fit in the plane too.  You have to at least skin it, gut it and quarter it.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 09, 2018, 06:07:30 AM
Interesting comment about the engine lift, I have access to that, never thought of it to be honest, Its not that hard to do a field dress. However its worth considering if I ever feel I can't do my normal.

Even if you don't have a portable crane, there are some mighty powerful little winches available you can use together with a sturdy tree to lift up just about any critter you knock down.  I have a Warn Rechargeable unit that weighs only 18 lbs and you can drop in your ATV Trailer without weighing it down or cluttering it up too much and will lift up to 1000 lbs straight off the ground, no problem.  Most Moose don't come in over 1000 lbs, but if you got a real big one, add some cable and a block and tackle and you could lift 2000 lbs with it.  You can get hand crank jobs that will do the same task, but it's a lot of cranking.  lol.  As long as you have some electricity from your off grid system, use it!

http://www.youtube.com/v/V1ykKF58Ivs

RE

Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Palloy2 on June 09, 2018, 06:50:53 AM
Why go electric, and battery-powered, when a geared hand winch (for a yacht) will work for ever?
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 09, 2018, 09:09:56 AM
I always keep at least  two of these, and use them for many things, including fence stretching. They do wear out, but not for a long, long time. Around here they call them come-alongs.

 I was planning to use the tractor to pick-up a slaughtered pig though. I can pick them up and move them somewhere relatively clean and convenient where I have a water hose and electricity, both of which come in handy for butchering. I don't have a draft animal.


(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcSSsB6rJMKSS1CA8ac4y3F0qTn4Pme8tb1ySIt7arpsKgFTshIGLmsYWLYDUVHYEell6OISMntKfinwzwTZO_brnS1pxd6--0-D_jZR0A2k&usqp=CAc)

I used two come-alongs to load my sawmill onto the flat bed trailer (by myself) when it's own trailer wheel blew out and I had to leave it beside the road and come back in the middle of the night to get it. They are really handy.

I have not hunted deer since I was a boy. In Texas almost everyone skins out their own and then takes the carcass to a butcher.

I went on a pig hunt a few years back and got a lesson from my guide on butchering. He used a small electric chainsaw. Very efficient for the difficult cuts.

I have taken a butchering class as well, but they started with a 1/2 pig that was already split. Hard to split a carcass from stem to stern without a good saw of some kind.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 09, 2018, 09:49:13 AM

I went on a pig hunt a few years back and got a lesson from my guide on butchering. He used a small electric chainsaw. Very efficient for the difficult cuts.

I have taken a butchering class as well, but they started with a 1/2 pig that was already split. Hard to split a carcass from stem to stern without a good saw of some kind.

My Power Tool set is the One+ system from Ryobi.  It's all 18V portable stuff.  They offer a chainsaw as well as a portable water transfer pump.

(https://images.homedepot-static.com/productImages/6e3eb65e-c4ce-4774-95f8-e992873310aa/svn/ryobi-cordless-chainsaws-p547-64_1000.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81cTgX5Q-4L._SX679_.jpg)

Both were on my list of preps to buy before the health took a turn further south.  :(  I am currently on a prep buying hiatus.

They also make a DC/DC charger that allows you to charge your batts straight from your car batt, no inverter necessary.  I have one of those.

(https://cc831cbd7a5a3a616f82-5093119187eb17284bcf20613cda98f7.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/products/photos/large_e8566e29-9e29-4ac6-8535-f4a3d9c83f52.jpg)

Great tools, very lightweight, highly recommended.  They don't make a winch though, so I had to go with Warn for that.  Big improvement over a come-along.  I'm going to use it to get my cripple cart into SaVANnah.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 09, 2018, 09:52:33 AM
Why go electric, and battery-powered, when a geared hand winch (for a yacht) will work for ever?

Why use a Flashlight when a Candle will work forever?

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 09, 2018, 09:54:16 AM

I went on a pig hunt a few years back and got a lesson from my guide on butchering. He used a small electric chainsaw. Very efficient for the difficult cuts.

I have taken a butchering class as well, but they started with a 1/2 pig that was already split. Hard to split a carcass from stem to stern without a good saw of some kind.

My Power Tool set is the One+ system from Ryobi.  It's all 18V portable stuff.  They offer a chainsaw as well as a portable water transfer pump.

(https://images.homedepot-static.com/productImages/6e3eb65e-c4ce-4774-95f8-e992873310aa/svn/ryobi-cordless-chainsaws-p547-64_1000.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81cTgX5Q-4L._SX679_.jpg)

Both were on my list of preps to buy before the health took a turn further south.  :(  I am currently on a prep buying hiatus.

They also make a DC/DC charger that allows you to charge your batts straight from your car batt, no inverter necessary.  I have one of those.

(https://cc831cbd7a5a3a616f82-5093119187eb17284bcf20613cda98f7.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/products/photos/large_e8566e29-9e29-4ac6-8535-f4a3d9c83f52.jpg)

Great tools, very lightweight, highly recommended.  They don't make a winch though, so I had to go with Warn for that.  Big improvement over a come-along.  I'm going to use it to get my cripple cart into SaVANnah.

RE

Nice stuff. I had looked at this saw, but don't have one. Saws suck so much power. This one is a higher voltage one 56V Li battery. Nice while it lasts probably

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81dqNyYLx9L._SL1500_.jpg)
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 09, 2018, 10:17:29 AM

Nice stuff. I had looked at this saw, but don't have one. Saws suck so much power. This one is a higher voltage one 56V Li battery. Nice while it lasts probably

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81dqNyYLx9L._SL1500_.jpg)

If you are knocking down big trees, saws eat a lot of power.  Small trees and animal bones?  Not so much.  Videos of the Ryobi in action get you a full day or so of cutting on one batt.  I currently have 3 batts, if I bought the saw I would add 2 more.  No worries about running out of juice.  Plus you can recharge off your car (or tractor) your other batts while cutting.

http://www.youtube.com/v/Bq-PH3rFioY

The 56V unit might have more power, but the advantage of the Ryobi system is all your batts from all your tools are interchangeable.  You would need separate 56V Batts for that chainsaw.  Anyhow, I don't think the Ryobi would have any trouble cutting up a pig.  Or a Zombie.

RE

Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 09, 2018, 10:44:30 AM
Videos of the Ryobi in action get you a full day or so of cutting on one batt.

Maybe i'm a rube from East Texas, but I use a lot of battery powered tools, and I just flat don't believe that. I'd have to see it in person to believe it.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 09, 2018, 10:54:46 AM
Videos of the Ryobi in action get you a full day or so of cutting on one batt.

Maybe i'm a rube from East Texas, but I use a lot of battery powered tools, and I just flat don't believe that. I'd have to see it in person to believe it.

Well, I am sure it depends a whole lot on exactly what you spent the day cutting. lol.

However, as I said, the fact that the batts are interchangeable between tools means you have a few batts available for use on any given day of work. I have 3 already which is more than enough for me now, I would add at least two more if I was back in the mode of fully prepping up.  I am also pretty sure you could cut up a pig on one fully charged batt.  How many pigs do you figure to cut up in a day anyhow? ???  :icon_scratch:

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 09, 2018, 11:07:58 AM
I might have to get one and see.  I use the multiple battery approach too.

That's what I have to do with the 18V drill motors. They last about an hour when I'm doing a big job. Drilling holes in fence posts, less.

With multiple batteries your saw would be a nice tool to have, no doubt. I find Ryobi to be a decent, lower priced product, compared to the jobber brands, Like DeWalt.  I have a Ryobi chop saw I like.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 09, 2018, 11:13:03 AM
I might have to get one and see.  I use the multiple battery approach too.

That's what I have to do with the 18V drill motors. They last about an hour when I'm doing a big job. Drilling holes in fence posts, less.

With multiple batteries your saw would be a nice tool to have, no doubt. I find Ryobi to be a decent, lower priced product, compared to the jobber brands, Like DeWalt.  I have a Ryobi chop saw I like.

I considered DeWalt when choosing my system.  Fact is though, I'm not using the tools that often, even when I was healthy.  It's not my work, I just use them for myself when I need them.  The Ryobis are plenty robust enough for this, and same tool comes in around 30% less than DeWalt.  Some folks feel they have to have "pro quality" in everything, my impression of you is that you are in this crowd.  But if you are not a pro using it every day, you are wasting your money.  It's unecessary.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 09, 2018, 11:42:27 AM
I have a gas chainsaw, but even the best ones are high maintenance, and mine needs work now. It's an Echo, which is a good brand. But I might have killed it with heat, I'm afraid.

You have to pay attention to the oil and the chain, and the bar. Heat is the enemy, and sawing causes lots of heat. They are still 2 stroke motors.

The power unit is only part of the equation.

I don't own many DeWalt tools. I think I might have a power plane from my boat building days.

I shop Home Depot and try to balance cost with quality. I buy tools when I have a need for one. The purchases happen when I need something specific for a project. I never just buy tools to accumulate tools.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on June 09, 2018, 12:21:34 PM

I went on a pig hunt a few years back and got a lesson from my guide on butchering. He used a small electric chainsaw. Very efficient for the difficult cuts.

I have taken a butchering class as well, but they started with a 1/2 pig that was already split. Hard to split a carcass from stem to stern without a good saw of some kind.

My Power Tool set is the One+ system from Ryobi.  It's all 18V portable stuff.  They offer a chainsaw as well as a portable water transfer pump.

(https://images.homedepot-static.com/productImages/6e3eb65e-c4ce-4774-95f8-e992873310aa/svn/ryobi-cordless-chainsaws-p547-64_1000.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81cTgX5Q-4L._SX679_.jpg)

Both were on my list of preps to buy before the health took a turn further south.  :(  I am currently on a prep buying hiatus.

They also make a DC/DC charger that allows you to charge your batts straight from your car batt, no inverter necessary.  I have one of those.

(https://cc831cbd7a5a3a616f82-5093119187eb17284bcf20613cda98f7.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/products/photos/large_e8566e29-9e29-4ac6-8535-f4a3d9c83f52.jpg)

Great tools, very lightweight, highly recommended.  They don't make a winch though, so I had to go with Warn for that.  Big improvement over a come-along.  I'm going to use it to get my cripple cart into SaVANnah.

RE
I've used the one plus tools a whole lot. The only down side I see is their lithium batteries are more sensitive to rain then others. The cells are fine it's the battery management system that shorts out. Technically it's waranty ed but here it involves shipping it out for evaluation paying freight there and back to a designated depot. I'm switching out to rigid a more pricey product but waranteed for life and exchanged through home depot.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 09, 2018, 12:59:37 PM
I've used the one plus tools a whole lot. The only down side I see is their lithium batteries are more sensitive to rain then others. The cells are fine it's the battery management system that shorts out. Technically it's waranty ed but here it involves shipping it out for evaluation paying freight there and back to a designated depot. I'm switching out to rigid a more pricey product but waranteed for life and exchanged through home depot.

2 of my batts are the old NiMH batts, only one of them is the new Li-I.  The tools are all backward compatible with the old batts.

I've never seen this problem, because I would never work in the rain.  lol.  I'm not making a living this way!  I'll wait for a sunny day!

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on June 09, 2018, 01:11:36 PM
Sorry guys. I am a bit dead from the work day for a good post but I thought I would throw in on the subject. I promote CORDED electrical tools for resilience. Convenience is cool and helpfull but short lived. When the battery is gone the tool is gone. I pick through alot of peoples garbage. That is a pride thing for me. Not a shame. I recycle. Tons of those battery packs in the trash. I also get 20 year old power tools and they still work. There is a compromise though. A converter on your car can get an electrical supply near where you need it and run cords from there. I know a guy that does all his firewood that way with an electric chainsaw. Getting an electric chainsaw is on my list but I will save up for a quality Stihls. My reasoning is, someday I may selectivly cut with the gas chainsaw (or goddess forbid, an ax) cut into carriable sized logs, then buck them up at home with the solar panels. It is a stop gap measure before it is all coppice wood after that.

Just my two cents worth. Corded power tools. Not battery powered.   
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 09, 2018, 01:24:46 PM
Corded electric chainsaws aren't fabulous, but I'd be the first to say they're a bargain for what they are. I've gone through several.

I pretty much have corded versions of most power tools. But the battery drills and sawzalls are way convenient.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 09, 2018, 01:30:38 PM
I have a gas chainsaw, but even the best ones are high maintenance, and mine needs work now. It's an Echo, which is a good brand. But I might have killed it with heat, I'm afraid.

You have to pay attention to the oil and the chain, and the bar. Heat is the enemy, and sawing causes lots of heat. They are still 2 stroke motors.

The power unit is only part of the equation.

I don't own many DeWalt tools. I think I might have a power plane from my boat building days.

I shop Home Depot and try to balance cost with quality. I buy tools when I have a need for one. The purchases happen when I need something specific for a project. I never just buy tools to accumulate tools.

Well, in this case you are buying the tool for a specific purpose, cutting up dead pigs.  You're not going to cut down trees with it, for that you have a big ass gas powered chainsaw.  You want something small and lightweight, easy to maneuver.  You're not going to use it that often, only when you slaughter some of the rapidly increasing herd.  The Ryobi fits the bill on this, but it's not the only factors involved.

For me it makes sense because I chose the Ryobi One+ system and own just about every other tool in their arsenal.  So I have extra batts because of that.  If I owned all DeWalt tools, then a Dewalt chainsaw would be the one to get, although I don't think they make one.  Once you commit to one of these systems, it's best value to stay inside that system because of the cost of the batts, which ain't cheap, $50 a pop there.

I was forced to go outside the Ryobi system for the winch, because Ryobi doesn't make a portable winch.  So I bought the Warn, which came with two batts, but they are only good for the winch and nothing else.

In your case going back to the lightweight saw, since you don't already own Ryobi tools and batts, the 56V model might make more sense, but it would depend on price and whether the batts it uses are compatible with any of your other tools, which they likely are not.

What kills me beyond the cost of the batts is the cost of attachments.  In one of my last projects I needed to cut some holes of different diameters so I went shopping for hole saws.  They wanted like $30-40 a pop for those!  I said fuck that and decided to cut the holes with the side cutting rotary tool I already owned.  Hint:  Don't try cutting round holes without a guide for your rotary tool! lol.

In terms of maintenance on the pig saw, since it's a messy bloody job you would have to pull off the chain after every use and clean the blade and chain thoroughly.  So then when you put it back together you have to oil it up anyhow.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 09, 2018, 01:47:59 PM
The corded electric for about $50 would get pigs done. I'm not really fastidious, but it would be nice to have a dedicated saw just for butchering. Without greasy wood chips included.

I can see how the Ryobi system would work out really well for anybody going nomadic. The chainsaw would be highly useful, and the battery version would be great for off-grid sites. I'm not knocking it at all. Just a discussion going here. It's good to talk about pros and cons.

Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 09, 2018, 01:56:45 PM
The corded electric for about $50 would get pigs done. I'm not really fastidious, but it would be nice to have a dedicated saw just for butchering. Without greasy wood chips included.

I can see how the Ryobi system would work out really well for anybody going nomadic. The chainsaw would be highly useful, and the battery version would be great for off-grid sites. I'm not knocking it at all. Just a discussion going here. It's good to talk about pros and cons.

Corded electrics are cheap, and probably would work OK for the pigs in a controlled environment where you have the power available.  However, you have to make cuts in multiple directions and planes, and you always have the cord in your way when you make a turn.  Cutting the cord is not good. lol.

Out in the field though, the cordless wins hands down for carving up a Moose.  It's a more versatile tool that can be used in other environments.

You strike a balance here for your needs.  As I said, because you don't own other Ryobi tools, this unit might not be the right one for you.  What cordless system do you use?

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on June 09, 2018, 02:03:42 PM
Sorry guys. I am a bit dead from the work day for a good post but I thought I would throw in on the subject. I promote CORDED electrical tools for resilience. Convenience is cool and helpfull but short lived. When the battery is gone the tool is gone. I pick through alot of peoples garbage. That is a pride thing for me. Not a shame. I recycle. Tons of those battery packs in the trash. I also get 20 year old power tools and they still work. There is a compromise though. A converter on your car can get an electrical supply near where you need it and run cords from there. I know a guy that does all his firewood that way with an electric chainsaw. Getting an electric chainsaw is on my list but I will save up for a quality Stihls. My reasoning is, someday I may selectivly cut with the gas chainsaw (or goddess forbid, an ax) cut into carriable sized logs, then buck them up at home with the solar panels. It is a stop gap measure before it is all coppice wood after that.

Just my two cents worth. Corded power tools. Not battery powered.
I meant inverter.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 09, 2018, 02:09:25 PM
Sorry guys. I am a bit dead from the work day for a good post but I thought I would throw in on the subject. I promote CORDED electrical tools for resilience. Convenience is cool and helpfull but short lived. When the battery is gone the tool is gone. I pick through alot of peoples garbage. That is a pride thing for me. Not a shame. I recycle. Tons of those battery packs in the trash. I also get 20 year old power tools and they still work. There is a compromise though. A converter on your car can get an electrical supply near where you need it and run cords from there. I know a guy that does all his firewood that way with an electric chainsaw. Getting an electric chainsaw is on my list but I will save up for a quality Stihls. My reasoning is, someday I may selectivly cut with the gas chainsaw (or goddess forbid, an ax) cut into carriable sized logs, then buck them up at home with the solar panels. It is a stop gap measure before it is all coppice wood after that.

Just my two cents worth. Corded power tools. Not battery powered.
I meant inverter.

In a pinch where your batts are all shot, you can always turn a cordless drill into a corded one with some Solder, some wire and a transformer to bring your 12V batt to the right voltage for the tool.

However, if I was still in prepping mode, I would lay in a bigger supply of batts for my tools.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 09, 2018, 02:25:58 PM
The corded electric for about $50 would get pigs done. I'm not really fastidious, but it would be nice to have a dedicated saw just for butchering. Without greasy wood chips included.

I can see how the Ryobi system would work out really well for anybody going nomadic. The chainsaw would be highly useful, and the battery version would be great for off-grid sites. I'm not knocking it at all. Just a discussion going here. It's good to talk about pros and cons.

Corded electrics are cheap, and probably would work OK for the pigs in a controlled environment where you have the power available.  However, you have to make cuts in multiple directions and planes, and you always have the cord in your way when you make a turn.  Cutting the cord is not good. lol.

Out in the field though, the cordless wins hands down for carving up a Moose.  It's a more versatile tool that can be used in other environments.

You strike a balance here for your needs.  As I said, because you don't own other Ryobi tools, this unit might not be the right one for you.  What cordless system do you use?

RE

I have a lot of Makita tools many of which I've had for a lot of years. 12V stuff.

I buy their newer 18v drills and drivers. I have two or three or four and I give them away to my kids, meaning they borrow them and don't bring them back. Having three locations, stuff gets misplaced. LOL.

I have a Milwaukee 18V cordless sawzall. Great for working on old PVC plumbing in tight quarters. Or even trimming bushes.

On the stationary corded side of things I have a Craftsman table saw with a decent fence, and a big Craftsman band saw, which you can't get anymore. Various sizes of routers and a router table. Two shitty drill presses. Power plane. One of those little planing mills. Not a great one. Most of this stuff  goes back to the early 90's and my wooden boat days.

The Ryobi chop saw I use a lot. Several hand held skilsaws.

I never got a radial arm saw, or a lathe.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 09, 2018, 02:41:10 PM
The corded electric for about $50 would get pigs done. I'm not really fastidious, but it would be nice to have a dedicated saw just for butchering. Without greasy wood chips included.

I can see how the Ryobi system would work out really well for anybody going nomadic. The chainsaw would be highly useful, and the battery version would be great for off-grid sites. I'm not knocking it at all. Just a discussion going here. It's good to talk about pros and cons.

Corded electrics are cheap, and probably would work OK for the pigs in a controlled environment where you have the power available.  However, you have to make cuts in multiple directions and planes, and you always have the cord in your way when you make a turn.  Cutting the cord is not good. lol.

Out in the field though, the cordless wins hands down for carving up a Moose.  It's a more versatile tool that can be used in other environments.

You strike a balance here for your needs.  As I said, because you don't own other Ryobi tools, this unit might not be the right one for you.  What cordless system do you use?

RE

I have a lot of Makita tools many of which I've had for a lot of years. 12V stuff.

I buy their newer 18v drills and drivers. I have two or three or four and I give them away to my kids, meaning they borrow them and don't bring them back. Having three locations, stuff gets misplaced. LOL.

I have a Milwaukee 18V cordless sawzall. Great for working on old PVC plumbing in tight quarters. Or even trimming bushes.

On the stationary corded side of things I have a Craftsman table saw with a decent fence, and a big Craftsman band saw, which you can't get anymore. Various sizes of routers and a router table. Two shitty drill presses. Power plane. One of those little planing mills. Not a great one. Most of this stuff  goes back to the early 90's and my wooden boat days.

The Ryobi chop saw I use a lot. Several hand held skilsaws.

I never got a radial arm saw, or a lathe.

IOW, you don't stick to one system, you are all over the place with different makes and models and voltages.  You need different batts for every different type.

Pick a system and stick with it.  You'll save a ton on batts.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on June 09, 2018, 02:47:52 PM
I have a gas chainsaw, but even the best ones are high maintenance, and mine needs work now. It's an Echo, which is a good brand. But I might have killed it with heat, I'm afraid.

You have to pay attention to the oil and the chain, and the bar. Heat is the enemy, and sawing causes lots of heat. They are still 2 stroke motors.

The power unit is only part of the equation.

I don't own many DeWalt tools. I think I might have a power plane from my boat building days.

I shop Home Depot and try to balance cost with quality. I buy tools when I have a need for one. The purchases happen when I need something specific for a project. I never just buy tools to accumulate tools.

Well, in this case you are buying the tool for a specific purpose, cutting up dead pigs.  You're not going to cut down trees with it, for that you have a big ass gas powered chainsaw.  You want something small and lightweight, easy to maneuver.  You're not going to use it that often, only when you slaughter some of the rapidly increasing herd.  The Ryobi fits the bill on this, but it's not the only factors involved.

For me it makes sense because I chose the Ryobi One+ system and own just about every other tool in their arsenal.  So I have extra batts because of that.  If I owned all DeWalt tools, then a Dewalt chainsaw would be the one to get, although I don't think they make one.  Once you commit to one of these systems, it's best value to stay inside that system because of the cost of the batts, which ain't cheap, $50 a pop there.

I was forced to go outside the Ryobi system for the winch, because Ryobi doesn't make a portable winch.  So I bought the Warn, which came with two batts, but they are only good for the winch and nothing else.

In your case going back to the lightweight saw, since you don't already own Ryobi tools and batts, the 56V model might make more sense, but it would depend on price and whether the batts it uses are compatible with any of your other tools, which they likely are not.

What kills me beyond the cost of the batts is the cost of attachments.  In one of my last projects I needed to cut some holes of different diameters so I went shopping for hole saws.  They wanted like $30-40 a pop for those!  I said fuck that and decided to cut the holes with the side cutting rotary tool I already owned.  Hint:  Don't try cutting round holes without a guide for your rotary tool! lol.

In terms of maintenance on the pig saw, since it's a messy bloody job you would have to pull off the chain after every use and clean the blade and chain thoroughly.  So then when you put it back together you have to oil it up anyhow.

RE
Once again, My apologies, I'm not all here. You guys know I am an accomplished cheap ass. There are some tools not to cheap out on though. I get it. I really do. Some things, cheap is better.

BUT...  A chainsaw. should be a Stihl!

 An Echo is a disposable throw away. Lots of them in the garbage as well. It has its place as an emergency back up saw though, when the real chainsaw needs work. Its not a tough guy thing in case it comes across that way. One is a working tool. The other is a chinese tool that chinese people know not to buy. No disrespect to the chinese. Same with Dewalt in real tool category. (not all dewalt) I, quite literally, have a new Dewalt corded drill in the box, held aside as essential collapse tools. I'll use the others till they are done. The Stihls chainsaw is actually the absolute MINIMUM chainsaw. I just cant afford the big boy tools.

FYI. I dont have a Harley. I have a Honda. Its more reliable. More importantly, it is the bike I can afford to crash. Its my 7th and last motorcycle.

But think of it like a bycycle. If you have ever ridden a quality bicycle, you can never go back to riding a Wallmart bike because you realize it only does less than a quarter of the job, breaks down in short order and it is more expensive to fix it than it is actually worth.

That is from a guy that moved all his years firewood with a honda civic this year (next article to follow). I am rather proud of that one.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 09, 2018, 02:58:28 PM
When I started Makita was about all there was. Then DeWalt came along and took it to the next level (of voltage, LOL).

Now there are a lot more choices. Sometimes one company doesn't make the one tool you need.

I will never forge when LD arrived at the stead and I was running out of time to get the bathroom finished for the convo....I'd been working for weeks in my spare time, on that and the deck. I needed to cut out a hole in the new flooring for the central heat vent. I figured I had a whole day left...then he and GM arrived with their boys, after driving for a week.

I looked him in the eye and said:

"How'd you like to help me do something useful but destructive with a chains saw?" Best ice-breaker I ever came up with.

He was, like, "Uh, yeah, sure!"

The beginning of a real friendship. LOL.

Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 09, 2018, 03:01:28 PM
I have a gas chainsaw, but even the best ones are high maintenance, and mine needs work now. It's an Echo, which is a good brand. But I might have killed it with heat, I'm afraid.

You have to pay attention to the oil and the chain, and the bar. Heat is the enemy, and sawing causes lots of heat. They are still 2 stroke motors.

The power unit is only part of the equation.

I don't own many DeWalt tools. I think I might have a power plane from my boat building days.

I shop Home Depot and try to balance cost with quality. I buy tools when I have a need for one. The purchases happen when I need something specific for a project. I never just buy tools to accumulate tools.

Well, in this case you are buying the tool for a specific purpose, cutting up dead pigs.  You're not going to cut down trees with it, for that you have a big ass gas powered chainsaw.  You want something small and lightweight, easy to maneuver.  You're not going to use it that often, only when you slaughter some of the rapidly increasing herd.  The Ryobi fits the bill on this, but it's not the only factors involved.

For me it makes sense because I chose the Ryobi One+ system and own just about every other tool in their arsenal.  So I have extra batts because of that.  If I owned all DeWalt tools, then a Dewalt chainsaw would be the one to get, although I don't think they make one.  Once you commit to one of these systems, it's best value to stay inside that system because of the cost of the batts, which ain't cheap, $50 a pop there.

I was forced to go outside the Ryobi system for the winch, because Ryobi doesn't make a portable winch.  So I bought the Warn, which came with two batts, but they are only good for the winch and nothing else.

In your case going back to the lightweight saw, since you don't already own Ryobi tools and batts, the 56V model might make more sense, but it would depend on price and whether the batts it uses are compatible with any of your other tools, which they likely are not.

What kills me beyond the cost of the batts is the cost of attachments.  In one of my last projects I needed to cut some holes of different diameters so I went shopping for hole saws.  They wanted like $30-40 a pop for those!  I said fuck that and decided to cut the holes with the side cutting rotary tool I already owned.  Hint:  Don't try cutting round holes without a guide for your rotary tool! lol.

In terms of maintenance on the pig saw, since it's a messy bloody job you would have to pull off the chain after every use and clean the blade and chain thoroughly.  So then when you put it back together you have to oil it up anyhow.

RE
Once again, My apologies, I'm not all here. You guys know I am an accomplished cheap ass. There are some tools not to cheap out on though. I get it. I really do. Some things, cheap is better.

BUT...  A chainsaw. should be a Stihl!

 An Echo is a disposable throw away. Lots of them in the garbage as well. It has its place as an emergency back up saw though, when the real chainsaw needs work. Its not a tough guy thing in case it comes across that way. One is a working tool. The other is a chinese tool that chinese people know not to buy. No disrespect to the chinese. Same with Dewalt in real tool category. (not all dewalt) I, quite literally, have a new Dewalt corded drill in the box, held aside as essential collapse tools. I'll use the others till they are done. The Stihls chainsaw is actually the absolute MINIMUM chainsaw. I just cant afford the big boy tools.

FYI. I dont have a Harley. I have a Honda. Its more reliable. More importantly, it is the bike I can afford to crash. Its my 7th and last motorcycle.

But think of it like a bycycle. If you have ever ridden a quality bicycle, you can never go back to riding a Wallmart bike because you realize it only does less than a quarter of the job, breaks down in short order and it is more expensive to fix it than it is actually worth.

That is from a guy that moved all his years firewood with a honda civic this year (next article to follow). I am rather proud of that one.

With the corded equipment you are at the mercy of your inverter.  When that goes, all your corded equipment is shot.  Inverters do quit you know.

With cordless, you don't even really need a transformer, since all cordless tools come in multiples of 6V.  If you have a batt bank with 3 Deep Cycle Marine Batts and 3 6V Golf Cart Batts, you can run any cordless out there up to 48V just by wiring the appropriate batts in series and then runing wires to the electrodes on the device.  Very simple, all straight DC.

As to the merits of Stihl over other chainsaws, do you really need a Stihl just to carve up the occasional pig?

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 09, 2018, 03:06:54 PM
When I started Makita was about all there was. Then DeWalt came along and took it to the next level (of voltage, LOL).

Now there are a lot more choices. Sometimes one company doesn't make the one tool you need.

Another reason I chose Ryobi.  They had the most variety of tools available for the same batt system.  You can even get Weed Eaters that run on the One+ Batts.

Indeed, going back a few years every tool had a different batt and different voltages.  A total mess.  A few companies like DeWalt and Ryobi have cleaned this up some.  Pick a system now and stick with it for future purchases and you will save a lot on Batts.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 09, 2018, 03:23:47 PM
Echos get a lot of good reviews from people I know, but I have not had the best luck with mine. It ran great for a while.

When I started buying tools, Stihl chainsaws were the Holy Grail.

Lots of Echos and Husqvarnas (spelling possibly incorrect) get sold around these parts. But Canada is real timber country, and this is not.

I can't work on most modern bikes. Their fuel systems are too finicky. I have an old Yamaha Virago. Pain in the ass. I bought it for the missus and she never liked it. Possibly she put a curse on it. I'm not sure.  If it sits, I have to take it to the shop for a "make-run". It requires some kind of special shop mojo I don't have.

I have a lot of experience with Airhead Beemers. I still have one, but my kids left it out for a few months and the cables got rusty and froze. It was a project, anyway. One I never finished, but it was running when parked, as they say. My brother still has my very first Beemer, which was my first motorcycle restoration, completed in the  1970's. I sold it to him when I went to dental school.

My ride now is a 2004 cop RoadKing I bought used  in 2005  with about 2K on it . The cops lease them for a year and return them around here. Still a fine motorcycle, but I can't fix it.

I've owned and ridden lots of Hondas. I like Hondas. I like what I see people doing with old Gold Wings. They make a nice cafe racer

My only remaining motorcycle dream ride is to own a vintage R69S. I probably won't, but who knows.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-DHaB0Iq0Gqo/UTX2cofDGSI/AAAAAAAAJHA/CMy4sHOmNOk/s1600/lady-bmw-motorcycle.jpg)

Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on June 09, 2018, 03:57:45 PM
We have switched to motorcycles.... but I have to tap out for the day. I'm done.

Makita were good tools and each time they tapped out I was sad to lose them.

Chat again soon.

Trust me on the Stihls though. I am not a brand guy that needs to attach my identity to a product. Its just doing the job WAY better than anything I have used before... and I only survive by firewood... each and every year.

Remember the C5 rule of survival "Everyone laughs at red necks... until the zombie apocalypse"

Balance that with C5 rule of survival "Hippies had all the right, good solutions... for all the wrong reasons"
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on June 09, 2018, 07:02:18 PM
We have switched to motorcycles.... but I have to tap out for the day. I'm done.

Makita were good tools and each time they tapped out I was sad to lose them.

Chat again soon.

Trust me on the Stihls though. I am not a brand guy that needs to attach my identity to a product. Its just doing the job WAY better than anything I have used before... and I only survive by firewood... each and every year.

Remember the C5 rule of survival "Everyone laughs at red necks... until the zombie apocalypse"

Balance that with C5 rule of survival "Hippies had all the right, good solutions... for all the wrong reasons"
I've used the stihl electric its an awesome saw. It outperforms my small gas powered Stihl.  I have the poulan electric also a very good electric saw. Both of them take standard chains and bars and pump the oil to the chain based on chain rotation. The cheap electric saws use a manual push button for oiling. I'm a Stihl guy but Husqvarna saws are neck and neck (its a ford chevy thing).  Honestly the echo is not in the same league. I have access to older inverters taken from clients upgraded systems so its always been in my mind to go all electric. I have a 5 tonne electric splitter as well. I find I do the first split or 2 with it then move to the axe. Eventually when I get my poop together It will all be powered by the charcoal generator. getting all the pieces together is hard on a very limited time budget. All the pieces work and have been tested but not on a full years wood. I always end up short on time and do it on gas. I recently bought a one man crosscut saw just for resiliency and practice; not cheap. I'm still trying to get the sharpening right; its more difficult then a chainsaw.
You mentioned power tools. I do have all my main tools in corded varieties as well but the cordless ones usually follow me to work where the pay and increased productivity justifies the wear parts of the batteries at least in the BAU world.
Brain drain complete. Goodnight.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: K-Dog on June 10, 2018, 01:44:03 AM
When I started Makita was about all there was. Then DeWalt came along and took it to the next level (of voltage, LOL).

Now there are a lot more choices. Sometimes one company doesn't make the one tool you need.

Another reason I chose Ryobi.  They had the most variety of tools available for the same batt system.  You can even get Weed Eaters that run on the One+ Batts.

Indeed, going back a few years every tool had a different batt and different voltages.  A total mess.  A few companies like DeWalt and Ryobi have cleaned this up some.  Pick a system now and stick with it for future purchases and you will save a lot on Batts.

RE

A weed eater that runs on batteries is a joke.

Real dogs go Stihl.

(https://www.richardsonsaw.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/t/stihl-fs-70-r-ce-professional-trimmer-arlington.jpg)

This baby is a FS 70R from the commercial line.  The homeowner line has a white case around the two stroke engine.  With a premium baby like that shown here you can mow a lawn as fast as you can walk.  Electric farmin equipment have shortcomings.  Quality equipment that can really get the job done as well as the gas version I show here needs to have a collection of charged batteries ready to get any real work time. Quality equipment costs.  I agree with C5 that the Stihl electric line is great but it is not cheap.

I have a unit like that I show which I got last month but mine has its motor detachable so different tools can be connected for different jobs.  I have a blower tool which I can hook up after eatin weeds.  Blows trimming remnants off the sidewalk onto the grass. 

Two weeks ago I climbed on my roof and used it to blow tree debris off the doghouse.  It looks like a length of white plastic pipe but inside four impellers turn and blow air out the end at a couple hundred miles an hour.  There is an electric blower also made by Stihl.  I doubt their electric blower out-performs what I have though it is also a very good blower.  It alone cost more than the dual trimmer arrangement I have with the extra blower attachment and all the electric tool does is does is blow,  no trimming.  It also won't run for even an hour with the premium battery.  Getting more than one battery adds more to the cost.  Recharger and batteries sold separately.

In collapse the chemistry of batteries will fail with time.  Gas powered equipment will be more durable and the fuel requirements of small tools are not so great.  Fuel for gas powered small tools can cost thirty dollars a gallon right now and equipment can still generate a reasonable profit for a professional gardener.  This would also be true for someone with a garden plot with a few veggies to sell.  I have a small roto-tiller I got at a low price but I could get a tilling attachment for my Stihl combo tool if I wanted. 

A recipe for making two stroke fuel biofuel would be a good idea and robust equipment should be identified.  I don't see batteries being available once the economy collapses.  Lithium batteries go bad just sitting on the shelf and in general batteries have shelf life.  The infrastructure to build good batteries is going to go away when SHTF but a greatly scaled down arrangement of what we have now could support a small engine infrastructure far more easily than the complex centralized distribution channels battery manufacture demands.  Small engines being lower tech can have a local support infrastructure that could support standard designs.  It would be more robust.

Not all tools are so efficient as the blower and trimmer.  Pressure washers suck gas as well as they can shoot water but for many things small two stroke engines get the job done well and sources of fuel should not be impossible to come up with because the quantity needed is low.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 10, 2018, 02:58:28 AM
I did some price comparisons on the net to see exactly the difference in price you pay for the "professional" line of power tools versus the "consumer" lines.  It turns out that DeWalt DOES in fact make a cordless electric Chainsaw which is part of their line of power tools running off the same Batts, in their case a 40V batt.  You can forget my estimate earlier of a 30% price differential for these tools from the Ryobis.  That was just the teaser price for the first few tools in their line.

Cost of the chainsaw from DeWalt, $280 WITHOUT any batts or charger.  Cost of ONE 40V batt, $250.  So if you don't already own other DeWalt cordless tools, the cost to get into this chainsaw to carve up your piggies is a nice wallet lightening $530.  :o

By contrast, the Ryobi chainsaw comes in at $110, and batts for it go $50/each.  I can buy the saw and two more batts for $210, less than half the cost of the DeWalt.

Now, you are going to say to me, "But RE, this is PROFESSIONAL equipment! It will LAST longer!"

It might, but it really depends on how often you use the equipment and how much stress you put on it.  The reason that contractors blow out equipment is because they over stress it, even the pro quality gear.  It's 2 in the afternoon, the motors are over-heating but they keep going because time is money and the job has to get done, don't ya know?  If you don't over-load your equipment, it doesn't burn out on you.

So again, it really depends on how often you're going to use it and what the load is the equipment has to handle.  Cutting up a pig which is mostly soft meat with bones max 3" or so in diameter is not a huge load, and as a Gentleman Farmer you're probably only going to do one in a day, not 50 of them coming from the feed lot.  So do you really need to spend $530 for this task?  I doubt it.

However, people who routinely push their equipment as hard as they can and try to drill holes through thick posts 100 in a day will routinely burn out equipment and finally cough up exorbitant amounts of money to buy "the best in class" from Stihl, Dewalt etc.  Use some CFS and don't push the equipment that hard!  ::)

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on June 10, 2018, 08:02:09 AM
Sorry guys. I am a bit dead from the work day for a good post but I thought I would throw in on the subject. I promote CORDED electrical tools for resilience. Convenience is cool and helpfull but short lived. When the battery is gone the tool is gone. I pick through alot of peoples garbage. That is a pride thing for me. Not a shame. I recycle. Tons of those battery packs in the trash. I also get 20 year old power tools and they still work. There is a compromise though. A converter on your car can get an electrical supply near where you need it and run cords from there. I know a guy that does all his firewood that way with an electric chainsaw. Getting an electric chainsaw is on my list but I will save up for a quality Stihls. My reasoning is, someday I may selectivly cut with the gas chainsaw (or goddess forbid, an ax) cut into carriable sized logs, then buck them up at home with the solar panels. It is a stop gap measure before it is all coppice wood after that.

Just my two cents worth. Corded power tools. Not battery powered.
I meant inverter.

In a pinch where your batts are all shot, you can always turn a cordless drill into a corded one with some Solder, some wire and a transformer to bring your 12V batt to the right voltage for the tool.

However, if I was still in prepping mode, I would lay in a bigger supply of batts for my tools.

RE
I want to order one of these:   https://www.amazon.com/SMAKN (https://www.amazon.com/SMAKN)-Converter-Module-adaptor-Regulator/dp/B00VRAZYN0/ref=sr_1_17?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1528642734&sr=1-17&keywords=dc%2Fdc+12+volt+to+18
Solid state and probably more durable then the cheap inverters. There are an awful lot of cordless tools without batteries out there. These converters are available in almost any step up step down configuration...
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: farmgal on June 10, 2018, 08:41:08 AM
Thank you for the replies on my question about the butchering on harvested wild game.  We find most hunters locally do send their game out to be done. Even those that do some home work will send out for sausages, smoking and so forth.

I have enjoyed reading about the power tools, I do have a selection as I tend to buy the older ones from local farm sales and some of them are tough as nails, otherwise I buy dewalt myself with the same battery. Yes it was a sigh worthy when the bill came in!

As for Chainsaws, I have a light little one for small jobs, and a bigger gas one for the bigger jobs. I have my eye on getting a battery powered one that is a single top handle for cutting my tree hay.. but so far like most things I am using hand clippers or hand saw at this time. However the tree's are getting bigger and at some point, the small powered saw will work better. At this point, I have a barter deal for use of a wood splitter when required. Its just not needed enough to own my own at this time.

As for the butchering, I have a hand held bone saw that does most of the work very nicely, If I can't debone the meat out and or need to cut extra bone, I have a powered with a cord jigsaw that gets the job done.  I have a older mid size freezer that is used as the cold storage for the meat as they are aged and while I process them. I also have a cement deep cellar on the farm that is low enough in the ground that I can use it as a cold house but I tend to use it for milk/veggies raither then meat.

 I just use frozen jugs done in the active freezers to keep it cold. I also do regular washes of salt -sugar brine over the meat while aging or hold it for process.  I am big on salt, I clean my wooden cutting boards with salt etc.

Interesting read gentleman..
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 10, 2018, 09:37:26 AM
Sorry guys. I am a bit dead from the work day for a good post but I thought I would throw in on the subject. I promote CORDED electrical tools for resilience. Convenience is cool and helpfull but short lived. When the battery is gone the tool is gone. I pick through alot of peoples garbage. That is a pride thing for me. Not a shame. I recycle. Tons of those battery packs in the trash. I also get 20 year old power tools and they still work. There is a compromise though. A converter on your car can get an electrical supply near where you need it and run cords from there. I know a guy that does all his firewood that way with an electric chainsaw. Getting an electric chainsaw is on my list but I will save up for a quality Stihls. My reasoning is, someday I may selectivly cut with the gas chainsaw (or goddess forbid, an ax) cut into carriable sized logs, then buck them up at home with the solar panels. It is a stop gap measure before it is all coppice wood after that.

Just my two cents worth. Corded power tools. Not battery powered.
I meant inverter.

In a pinch where your batts are all shot, you can always turn a cordless drill into a corded one with some Solder, some wire and a transformer to bring your 12V batt to the right voltage for the tool.

However, if I was still in prepping mode, I would lay in a bigger supply of batts for my tools.

RE
I want to order one of these:   https://www.amazon.com/SMAKN (https://www.amazon.com/SMAKN)-Converter-Module-adaptor-Regulator/dp/B00VRAZYN0/ref=sr_1_17?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1528642734&sr=1-17&keywords=dc%2Fdc+12+volt+to+18
Solid state and probably more durable then the cheap inverters. There are an awful lot of cordless tools without batteries out there. These converters are available in almost any step up step down configuration...

Your link is broken.

You can get just the transformer module and wire up yourself.  I have 4 of these I bought for $15/each which handle 8V-80V transforms either way.  You adjust the input/output range with little screws, there are no knobs to turn.  It took me a while to figure that out.  lol.  They's handle up to 10A, which is enough to power even a 12" Circular Saw.

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/BRgAAOSwscda0bEp/s-l500.jpg)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-DC-400W-8V-80V-10A-Digital-Controlled-Boost-Step-up-Module-Power-Supply-Pro/202288317677?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20160908110712%26meid%3D0ebec2a3c7a74d07a8bdc33e1a3c8e46%26pid%3D100677%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D30%26sd%3D171431441179%26itm%3D202288317677&_trksid=p2385738.c100677.m4598 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-DC-400W-8V-80V-10A-Digital-Controlled-Boost-Step-up-Module-Power-Supply-Pro/202288317677?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20160908110712%26meid%3D0ebec2a3c7a74d07a8bdc33e1a3c8e46%26pid%3D100677%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D30%26sd%3D171431441179%26itm%3D202288317677&_trksid=p2385738.c100677.m4598)

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 10, 2018, 10:16:37 AM
Thank you for the replies on my question about the butchering on harvested wild game.  We find most hunters locally do send their game out to be done. Even those that do some home work will send out for sausages, smoking and so forth.

We have only 2 companies here that do the sausage making and smoking for you, Alaska Sausage & Seafood down in Anchorage and Matanuska Meats here in the Valley.  There probably is somebody up in Fairbanks that does this too, but I don't know of them.  If you live anywhere else in Alaska, you have to DIY.

The issue besides a dearth of commmercial operations doing this is the cost for people here who do subsistence fishing and hunting.  A friend of mine gave me about 10 lbs. of cold smoked Nova Salmon out of her take during dipnetting season a few years back she had smoked and vacuum sealed by Alaska Sausage & Seafood.  I asked her how much it cost, $4/lb, which is certainly cheaper than the cost of a pound of Nova in the grocery store which comes in at around $20/lb, but then you have to figure in your cost in gas to get down to Kenai and campsite costs as well to figure what it finally costs, which is probably around $10/lb.

The folks who do subsistence fishing & hunting here work on a very low budget.  It's about 50-50 Native and White people.  $4/lb is just too much to pay when you can DIY.  So the only people who send out are the touristas and the rich guys who work on the Slope and make 6 figures.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: K-Dog on June 10, 2018, 01:24:43 PM
Sorry guys. I am a bit dead from the work day for a good post but I thought I would throw in on the subject. I promote CORDED electrical tools for resilience. Convenience is cool and helpfull but short lived. When the battery is gone the tool is gone. I pick through alot of peoples garbage. That is a pride thing for me. Not a shame. I recycle. Tons of those battery packs in the trash. I also get 20 year old power tools and they still work. There is a compromise though. A converter on your car can get an electrical supply near where you need it and run cords from there. I know a guy that does all his firewood that way with an electric chainsaw. Getting an electric chainsaw is on my list but I will save up for a quality Stihls. My reasoning is, someday I may selectivly cut with the gas chainsaw (or goddess forbid, an ax) cut into carriable sized logs, then buck them up at home with the solar panels. It is a stop gap measure before it is all coppice wood after that.

Just my two cents worth. Corded power tools. Not battery powered.

A great two cents!

Take some of RE's DC modules with an adjustable DC output and bus them together.
bussedConnections
bussedConnections

If the voltage modules are all set to 16.5 volts a 20 AMP load will only suck the output voltage down to 15.5 volts.  The drawing I made can put out 40 AMPs but better to add more modules on the bused connections if you needed that much current.  More modules will reduce the voltage drop in the resistors under load so output voltage will not dip as much.

Details will vary by specific application and I am only presenting the idea here.  I have done this trick with a dozen surplus laptop supplies to make a very high current low voltage DC supply for LED lighting in a horticultural application.  I made my own LED grow lights which worked very well. 

Looking up the ohms per foot of 20 gauge wire show that it has about 9 ohms in 1000 feet.  This means only ten or twenty feet of twenty gauge wire would give a good resistance to balance currents if you want to make your own resistors.

Newer battery powered tools use higher voltages so I did not lock my example to 12 volts.  Different tools have different voltage needs so a high current supply has to be able to switch voltages or more than one supply is needed.  Having more than one supply would be a lot easier build  than to have to switch multiple modules between voltages in one supply. 

(http://www.lrs-uk.com/images/ww/products/Stihl%20MS170%20cHAINSAW%20-%20ST1130%20200%200238-mi.jpg)

The high quality of professional tools such as the Stihl electric line means their working life could be extended by a 'corded battery' made from a dead battery case used as a plug in connector, along with a supply of power modules wired together as described above.  Connect to the dead battery case by a long cord or even a pair of cords to share heavy loads.  Some electric tools take a lot of current because they use low voltage.  Power means high currents when voltages are low.  That is why voltages in battery packs are going up.  To reduce current draw and give more power.

If a single 20 gauge wire from each 10 amp module carried current to the dead battery connector and all the wires were simply connected together in a bundle, then no balancing resistors would be needed at all.  The wires would be the resistors.

10 Amps by itself at 12 volts is only 120 watts.  A serious tool will need more amps and the power cord to the tool/battery connector has to have good current carrying capacity to prevent excess voltage drop.  20 gauge wire will carry a maximum of 8 amps but busing more modules to reduce current draw brings the load on each wire below 8 amps.  Two modules would only have to supply 5 amps each to handle a 10 amp load.

Quote
Lithium-ion batteries age. They only last two to three years, even if they are sitting on a shelf unused. So do not "avoid using" the battery with the thought that the battery pack will last five years. It won't. Also, if you are buying a new battery pack, you want to make sure it really is new. If it has been sitting on a shelf in the store for a year, it won't last very long. Manufacturing dates are important.

https://electronics.howstuffworks.com/everyday-tech/lithium-ion-battery2.htm (https://electronics.howstuffworks.com/everyday-tech/lithium-ion-battery2.htm)

The economics of battery replacement totally offset fuel savings sorry to say.  As Diners we also know going electric is not as 'green' as it seems.  Biofuel and two cycle devices would be greener in the greater scheme of things but after SHTF the environment will start a long slow journey back to cool so being green won't matter anyway.

Going 'green' is good if you have any notion of civilization surviving on any level into the future.  But if you know for sure that SHTF day is near and that after SHTF day we are all going Mad Max then worrying about the environment is total a waste of time since the earth will be fixing itself and there won't be enough of us around to stop it from doing so.  If that is the case you might as well take a road trip and burn baby burn.

(https://airlandandsea.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/thelma-and-louise.png)

It's a conundrum!
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 10, 2018, 01:53:04 PM
Sorry guys. I am a bit dead from the work day for a good post but I thought I would throw in on the subject. I promote CORDED electrical tools for resilience. Convenience is cool and helpfull but short lived. When the battery is gone the tool is gone. I pick through alot of peoples garbage. That is a pride thing for me. Not a shame. I recycle. Tons of those battery packs in the trash. I also get 20 year old power tools and they still work. There is a compromise though. A converter on your car can get an electrical supply near where you need it and run cords from there. I know a guy that does all his firewood that way with an electric chainsaw. Getting an electric chainsaw is on my list but I will save up for a quality Stihls. My reasoning is, someday I may selectivly cut with the gas chainsaw (or goddess forbid, an ax) cut into carriable sized logs, then buck them up at home with the solar panels. It is a stop gap measure before it is all coppice wood after that.

Just my two cents worth. Corded power tools. Not battery powered.

A great two cents!

Take some of RE's DC modules with an adjustable DC output and bus them together.
bussedConnections
bussedConnections

If the voltage modules are all set to 16.5 volts a 20 AMP load will only suck the output voltage down to 15.5 volts.  The drawing I made can put out 40 AMPs but better to add more modules on the bused connections if you needed that much current.  More modules will reduce the voltage drop in the resistors under load so output voltage will not dip as much.

Details will vary by specific application and I am only presenting the idea here.  I have done this trick with a dozen surplus laptop supplies to make a very high current low voltage DC supply for LED lighting in a horticultural application.  I made my own LED grow lights which worked very well. 

Looking up the ohms per foot of 20 gauge wire show that it has about 9 ohms in 1000 feet.  This means only ten or twenty feet of twenty gauge wire would give a good resistance to balance currents if you want to make your own resistors.

Newer battery powered tools use higher voltages so I did not lock my example to 12 volts.  Different tools have different voltage needs so a high current supply has to be able to switch voltages or more than one supply is needed.  Having more than one supply would be a lot easier build  than to have to switch multiple modules between voltages in one supply. 

(http://www.lrs-uk.com/images/ww/products/Stihl%20MS170%20cHAINSAW%20-%20ST1130%20200%200238-mi.jpg)

The high quality of professional tools such as the Stihl electric line means their working life could be extended by a 'corded battery' made from a dead battery case used as a plug in connector, along with a supply of power modules wired together as described above.  Connect to the dead battery case by a long cord or even a pair of cords to share heavy loads.  Some electric tools take a lot of current because they use low voltage.  Power means high currents when voltages are low.  That is why voltages in battery packs are going up.  To reduce current draw and give more power.

If a single 20 gauge wire from each 10 amp module carried current to the dead battery connector and all the wires were simply connected together in a bundle, then no balancing resistors would be needed at all.  The wires would be the resistors.

10 Amps by itself at 12 volts is only 120 watts.  A serious tool will need more amps and the power cord to the tool/battery connector has to have good current carrying capacity to prevent excess voltage drop.  20 gauge wire will carry a maximum of 8 amps but busing more modules to reduce current draw brings the load on each wire below 8 amps.  Two modules would only have to supply 5 amps each to handle a 10 amp load.

Quote
Lithium-ion batteries age. They only last two to three years, even if they are sitting on a shelf unused. So do not "avoid using" the battery with the thought that the battery pack will last five years. It won't. Also, if you are buying a new battery pack, you want to make sure it really is new. If it has been sitting on a shelf in the store for a year, it won't last very long. Manufacturing dates are important.

https://electronics.howstuffworks.com/everyday-tech/lithium-ion-battery2.htm (https://electronics.howstuffworks.com/everyday-tech/lithium-ion-battery2.htm)

Great ideas on how to up the power supply potential there KD!  :icon_sunny:

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on June 10, 2018, 01:58:11 PM
Take some of RE's DC modules with an adjustable DC output and bus them together.
bussedConnections
bussedConnections

If the voltage modules are all set to 16.5 volts a 20 AMP load will only suck the output voltage down to 15.5 volts.  The drawing I made can put out 40 AMPs but better to add more modules on the bused connections if you needed that much current.  More modules will reduce the voltage drop in the resistors under load so output voltage will not dip as much.

Details will vary by specific application and I am only presenting the idea here.  I have done this trick with a dozen surplus laptop supplies to make a very high current low voltage DC supply for LED lighting in a horticultural application.  I made my own LED grow lights which worked very well. 

Looking up the ohms per foot of 20 gauge wire show that it has about 9 ohms in 1000 feet.  This means only ten or twenty feet of twenty gauge wire would give a good resistance to balance currents if you want to make your own resistors.

Newer battery powered tools use higher voltages so I did not lock my example to 12 volts.  Different tools have different voltage needs so a high current supply has to be able to switch voltages or more than one supply is needed.  Having more than one supply would be a lot easier build  than to have to switch multiple modules between voltages in one supply. 

(http://www.lrs-uk.com/images/ww/products/Stihl%20MS170%20cHAINSAW%20-%20ST1130%20200%200238-mi.jpg)

The high quality of professional tools such as the Stihl electric line means their working life could be extended by a 'corded battery' made from a dead battery case used as a plug in connector, along with a supply of power modules wired together as described above.  Connect to the dead battery case by a long cord or even a pair of cords to share heavy loads.  Some electric tools take a lot of current because they use low voltage.  Power means high currents when voltages are low.  That is why voltages in battery packs are going up.  To reduce current draw and give more power.

If a single 20 gauge wire from each 10 amp module carried current to the dead battery connector and all the wires were simply connected together in a bundle, then no balancing resistors would be needed at all.  The wires would be the resistors.

10 Amps by itself at 12 volts is only 120 watts.  A serious tool will need more amps and the power cord to the tool/battery connector has to have good current carrying capacity to prevent excess voltage drop.  20 gauge wire will carry a maximum of 8 amps but busing more modules to reduce current draw brings the load on each wire below 8 amps.  Two modules would only have to supply 5 amps each to handle a 10 amp load.



That was my plan take a dead battery case and mount it in it. I had not thought of ganging up more than one of them great idea there... The older NIMH batteries would have room for two of the units. For me its a step up converter from 12 volts to 19 volts. I thought I would convert it at the tool since it takes inputs from 11-18 volts so it could compensate for voltage drop at the tool. Probably a 14 gauge dead extension cord no more then 30ft.  I think they make these power supplies for laptop charging in cars which is why they are so cheap. I like this scenario there are oodles of cordless tools sans batteries out there... I'll keep my corded ac tools in reserve. They are unkillable tanks.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 10, 2018, 02:13:34 PM
Another thought.

If you do get a tool with an old but dead batt you want to hook to the wired system, save the tool batt case but gut the interior of the batt and run the wires out of that to hook to your power supply with say a 30A connector.  Then you can just snap the batt into the slot the same way you always did, just it would have the wire poking out the bottom to connect to the power supply.

None of my tools need so much power.  I'm not a big power hog like you macho men.  I got maybe 30' of weeds to eat on my backyard porch by the fence.  I'm not buying a Stihl for that. lol.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: K-Dog on June 10, 2018, 03:01:11 PM

That was my plan take a dead battery case and mount it in it. I had not thought of ganging up more than one of them great idea there... The older NIMH batteries would have room for two of the units. For me its a step up converter from 12 volts to 19 volts. I thought I would convert it at the tool since it takes inputs from 11-18 volts so it could compensate for voltage drop at the tool. Probably a 14 gauge dead extension cord no more then 30ft.  I think they make these power supplies for laptop charging in cars which is why they are so cheap. I like this scenario there are oodles of cordless tools sans batteries out there... I'll keep my corded ac tools in reserve. They are unkillable tanks.


(https://www.mouser.com/images/ohmite/images/ceramic.jpg)

Horrible picture, but follow the link for the details. 

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Ohmite/TUW10JR10E?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtbXrIkmrvidENDXSGPAR%2fjNq%252bZReBzvag%3d (https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Ohmite/TUW10JR10E?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtbXrIkmrvidENDXSGPAR%2fjNq%252bZReBzvag%3d)

0.1 ohm at 10 watts for a buck each.  Paralleling lower wattage resistors with resistances bumped up appropriately is cheaper.  A can of worms you can spend hours figuring out. 

For a recent circuit I made I bought 4700pF 6KV capacitors and paralleled 6 of them together and then put two of such paralleled arrangements in series for  0.014 uF at 12,000 volts.  My goal was to replace a filter cap of 0.012uF at 10000 volts.  The original arrangements used two 0.025 uF caps at 6 KV and a found exact replacements but at $70.00 each.  $140.00 to replace a couple of missing caps is too much so I did it for $13.00 using the laws of series parallel capacitors.

Not the same math exactly as for resistors.  The series parallel laws are inverted.  But the principle is the same.

Quote
Save the tool batt case but gut the interior of the batt and run the wires out of that to hook to your power supply with say a 30A connector.  Then you can just snap the batt into the slot the same way you always did, just it would have the wire poking out the bottom to connect to the power supply.

Something like that.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/Pp01.jpg)

The best connector for that are Anderson Powepoles.

https://powerwerx.com/anderson-power-powerpole-sb-connectors?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term={keyword_text}&utm_campaign=Anderson+-+Exact&utm_adgroup=Anderson+Powerpole&mkwid=swRhORc6i_dc&pcrid={creative}&plc={placement}&pkw=anderson%20powerpole&pmt|=e&utm_content=Anderson%20Powerpole (https://powerwerx.com/anderson-power-powerpole-sb-connectors?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term={keyword_text}&utm_campaign=Anderson+-+Exact&utm_adgroup=Anderson+Powerpole&mkwid=swRhORc6i_dc&pcrid={creative}&plc={placement}&pkw=anderson%20powerpole&pmt|=e&utm_content=Anderson%20Powerpole)
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on June 10, 2018, 03:53:07 PM

That was my plan take a dead battery case and mount it in it. I had not thought of ganging up more than one of them great idea there... The older NIMH batteries would have room for two of the units. For me its a step up converter from 12 volts to 19 volts. I thought I would convert it at the tool since it takes inputs from 11-18 volts so it could compensate for voltage drop at the tool. Probably a 14 gauge dead extension cord no more then 30ft.  I think they make these power supplies for laptop charging in cars which is why they are so cheap. I like this scenario there are oodles of cordless tools sans batteries out there... I'll keep my corded ac tools in reserve. They are unkillable tanks.



(https://www.mouser.com/images/ohmite/images/ceramic.jpg)

Horrible picture, but follow the link for the details. 

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Ohmite/TUW10JR10E?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtbXrIkmrvidENDXSGPAR%2fjNq%252bZReBzvag%3d (https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Ohmite/TUW10JR10E?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtbXrIkmrvidENDXSGPAR%2fjNq%252bZReBzvag%3d)

0.1 ohm at 10 watts for a buck each.  Paralleling lower wattage resistors with resistances bumped up appropriately is cheaper.  A can of worms you can spend hours figuring out. 

For a recent circuit I made I bought 4700pF 6KV capacitors and paralleled 6 of them together and then put two of such paralleled arrangements in series for  0.014 uF at 12,000 volts.  My goal was to replace a filter cap of 0.012uF at 10000 volts.  The original arrangements used two 0.025 uF caps at 6 KV and a found exact replacements but at $70.00 each.  $140.00 to replace a couple of missing caps is too much so I did it for $13.00 using the laws of series parallel capacitors.

Not the same math exactly as for resistors.  The series parallel laws are inverted.  But the principle is the same.

Quote
Save the tool batt case but gut the interior of the batt and run the wires out of that to hook to your power supply with say a 30A connector.  Then you can just snap the batt into the slot the same way you always did, just it would have the wire poking out the bottom to connect to the power supply.

Something like that.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/Pp01.jpg)

The best connector for that are Anderson Powepoles.

https://powerwerx.com/anderson-power-powerpole-sb-connectors?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term={keyword_text}&utm_campaign=Anderson+-+Exact&utm_adgroup=Anderson+Powerpole&mkwid=swRhORc6i_dc&pcrid={creative}&plc={placement}&pkw=anderson%20powerpole&pmt|=e&utm_content=Anderson%20Powerpole (https://powerwerx.com/anderson-power-powerpole-sb-connectors?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term={keyword_text}&utm_campaign=Anderson+-+Exact&utm_adgroup=Anderson+Powerpole&mkwid=swRhORc6i_dc&pcrid={creative}&plc={placement}&pkw=anderson%20powerpole&pmt|=e&utm_content=Anderson%20Powerpole)
I've been using these ones   https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00SGYUH2I/ref=oh_aui_bia_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00SGYUH2I/ref=oh_aui_bia_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

for 12 volt stuff up to 15 amps. You need a crimper for them though same as the andersons . UHG I remember my series and parallel rules but its been some time. Its just so damn easy to buy full circuits. Yet another thing that will be gone after BAU.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 10, 2018, 04:06:33 PM

That was my plan take a dead battery case and mount it in it. I had not thought of ganging up more than one of them great idea there... The older NIMH batteries would have room for two of the units. For me its a step up converter from 12 volts to 19 volts. I thought I would convert it at the tool since it takes inputs from 11-18 volts so it could compensate for voltage drop at the tool. Probably a 14 gauge dead extension cord no more then 30ft.  I think they make these power supplies for laptop charging in cars which is why they are so cheap. I like this scenario there are oodles of cordless tools sans batteries out there... I'll keep my corded ac tools in reserve. They are unkillable tanks.



(https://www.mouser.com/images/ohmite/images/ceramic.jpg)

Horrible picture, but follow the link for the details. 

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Ohmite/TUW10JR10E?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtbXrIkmrvidENDXSGPAR%2fjNq%252bZReBzvag%3d (https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Ohmite/TUW10JR10E?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtbXrIkmrvidENDXSGPAR%2fjNq%252bZReBzvag%3d)

0.1 ohm at 10 watts for a buck each.  Paralleling lower wattage resistors with resistances bumped up appropriately is cheaper.  A can of worms you can spend hours figuring out. 

For a recent circuit I made I bought 4700pF 6KV capacitors and paralleled 6 of them together and then put two of such paralleled arrangements in series for  0.014 uF at 12,000 volts.  My goal was to replace a filter cap of 0.012uF at 10000 volts.  The original arrangements used two 0.025 uF caps at 6 KV and a found exact replacements but at $70.00 each.  $140.00 to replace a couple of missing caps is too much so I did it for $13.00 using the laws of series parallel capacitors.

Not the same math exactly as for resistors.  The series parallel laws are inverted.  But the principle is the same.

Quote
Save the tool batt case but gut the interior of the batt and run the wires out of that to hook to your power supply with say a 30A connector.  Then you can just snap the batt into the slot the same way you always did, just it would have the wire poking out the bottom to connect to the power supply.

Something like that.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/Pp01.jpg)

The best connector for that are Anderson Powepoles.

https://powerwerx.com/anderson-power-powerpole-sb-connectors?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term={keyword_text}&utm_campaign=Anderson+-+Exact&utm_adgroup=Anderson+Powerpole&mkwid=swRhORc6i_dc&pcrid={creative}&plc={placement}&pkw=anderson%20powerpole&pmt|=e&utm_content=Anderson%20Powerpole (https://powerwerx.com/anderson-power-powerpole-sb-connectors?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term={keyword_text}&utm_campaign=Anderson+-+Exact&utm_adgroup=Anderson+Powerpole&mkwid=swRhORc6i_dc&pcrid={creative}&plc={placement}&pkw=anderson%20powerpole&pmt|=e&utm_content=Anderson%20Powerpole)
I've been using these ones   https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00SGYUH2I/ref=oh_aui_bia_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00SGYUH2I/ref=oh_aui_bia_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

for 12 volt stuff up to 15 amps. You need a crimper for them though same as the andersons . UHG I remember my series and parallel rules but its been some time. Its just so damn easy to buy full circuits. Yet another thing that will be gone after BAU.

My Ewz runs 36V with a 1000W motor.  It's my biggest electric power hog. It uses this type of connector:

(https://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mSvlHjj53_pU9v0C39GaLjw.jpg)

There are connectors to pull the batt out of the bike and connectors to disengage the motor from the bike.  They are cheap and none of them has failed so far.  Pick em up at Auto Zone.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 10, 2018, 04:42:23 PM
BTW, when I bought the Ewz I bought with it a spare motor assembly, spare controller and spare throttle, along with spare tires and inner tubes.  The motors are BEASTS.

Ewz Motor
Ewz Motor

You could easily run a Table Saw, Drill Press or Joiner with these motors.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on June 20, 2018, 10:07:20 AM
I have been meaning to get back to this.... but I have been behind the ball lately. I stick with my CORDED power tools for resilience, position....

But since we clearly have some Electrical guys here...and me being a luddite, I see an opportunity.

I have a decent solar system... but that only lasts until the batteries die. Some people have solar that feeds into the grid. No grid, no batteries, done.

But here is a question I have to reach out to electrical guys for.

Can someone tell me about a practical DC motor that I can get some work out of by directly  tying it into the solar panels. Only works when sun is available.

Give me your thoughts guys. Can it be turned into, say, a wood saw.... or.... something that turns a reworked  generator for sunny day, power tool use.

That should give you folks something to chat about or share your knowledge of where to look for someone doing similar.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 20, 2018, 10:18:43 AM
Good question and one I've asked myself. I don't really know the answer.

In general, what can you do with PV panels that work when you don't have any batteries to store the power?

The voltage coming off he panels is fixed, and the amperage varies, right?  So loads just draw what they draw, right?   How does that work with motors and lights?  It seems to me like you can run anything directly off PV as long as the amps are there. But I don't really know.

David?
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 20, 2018, 10:56:33 AM
I can't ever see running any device straight off the panels without a batt system of some sort to have a power buffer while working.  What if the clouds come out right when you are in the middle of ripping some plywood?  One old 12V Car Batt in decent shape will do for a buffer in most cases I would say, however brand spanking new a deep cycle marine batt isn't that expensive.  I just bought a new one for the old Bugout Machine at Batteries & Bulbs for $90.  Duracell, good brand.

In terms of power to do your chores, as I mentioned my 1000W 36V DC motors would turn just about anything including a concrete saw.  You can get bigger than that though if you want to run a fucking sawmill or something.  I looked at buying this 5000W motor to soup up my Ewz and make it into a towing powerhouse and/or Cripple Racing Machine.  You can get different models operating at 48V, 72V or 96V.

(https://www.goldenmotor.com/img/5KWFanCooling.jpg)

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on June 20, 2018, 12:02:33 PM
I have been meaning to get back to this.... but I have been behind the ball lately. I stick with my CORDED power tools for resilience, position....

But since we clearly have some Electrical guys here...and me being a luddite, I see an opportunity.

I have a decent solar system... but that only lasts until the batteries die. Some people have solar that feeds into the grid. No grid, no batteries, done.

But here is a question I have to reach out to electrical guys for.

Can someone tell me about a practical DC motor that I can get some work out of by directly  tying it into the solar panels. Only works when sun is available.

Give me your thoughts guys. Can it be turned into, say, a wood saw.... or.... something that turns a reworked  generator for sunny day, power tool use.

That should give you folks something to chat about or share your knowledge of where to look for someone doing similar.
There is no easy way to run directly off the solar panels being marketed today at insanely cheap prices. the charge controllers that are charging batteries today are using panel strings of 70-200 volts and converting it down to 12-48 and are referred to as MPPT chargers. They absolutely need a battery to feed to or they won't feed out. The older charge controllers that were just a complicated switch were operating panels that matched the voltage of the battery banks and are called PWM controllers. those ones will sometimes feed out without a battery but its iffy. As RE mentioned it would technically be possible to run a 36 volt motor off of the 60 cell 200-300 watt panels. They output in full sun at about 32-40 volts at 6-8 amps. It would be tricky though. Say you wanted to run a table saw you would want to re jig it to incorporate a flywheel of some sort or have 2 or 3 panels hooked up in parallel to have 2 or 3 times the amps of the motor to draw from in case the sun goes away or you bog down. To me that is a waste of resources since if batteries are toast panels which are way more complicated will fetch a premium and weird voltage dc motors would be almost non existent. BUT... Even an almost dead battery bank as long as the cells have not shorted out can be the buffer you need to run the controllers and act as a pass through for the power from the panels. The trick would be to start treating your batteries as irreplaceable. In times of crisis think of them as delicate senior citizens. You eliminate all the shocks we inflict on them daily. In that scenario you wait for the sun to be out and charging at more then what you need and start turning on devices to match the sun; freezer/fridge conversion, well pump with an insanely large pressure tank, maybe some electric chainsaw work etc. All of these are usually inverter functions. You aim to use almost all the solar in passthrough and DO things with it and dribble a little to your geriatric batteries to keep them charged and as alive as they can be. When the sun goes away you power down all the ac, turn off the inverter and coast on a few dc led lights. You've stored the energy as cold, pressurized water and sawn wood instead of chemical potential energy. In that kind of scenario the 2000 cycle battery bank can be pushed into the 8000 cycles realm and if we have not figured out something different within 20 years we are already dead anyways since that is the lifespan of the inverters charge controllers etc,,, Its more complicated then that and would require beer a sketch pad, a pencil and me waving my hands a lot but that is the jist of it. Its easy enough to experiment with if you want; find a poor old battery bank from a recycler at the same voltage as your existing one and switch over to model a battery of much diminished capabilities and practice using power directly.I know a nice old lady in the woods who lasted 14 years on her original undersized batteries with very minor lifestyle hacks let alone the hardcore alterations proposed above. Food for thought. Back to work...
Cheers,  David 
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 20, 2018, 12:16:56 PM
Its more complicated then that and would require beer a sketch pad, a pencil and me waving my hands a lot but that is the jist of it

LMFAO. Thanks David. Good info.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on June 20, 2018, 12:23:31 PM
Yup. That is the scale we are talking about. Mini, Micro scale sawmill. Something like a band saw. Enough to buck up coppice wood... or run a wheat grinder. If the job gets called by cloud... it's done. Do do something else. C5 rule of survival. If all else fails, lower your expectations.

I do seem to recall, back in the old days, there were DC motors long before we switched to AC. I am guessing there are some sitting in some old barns as antiques. But it is like searching for the secrets of the pyramids or the arc of the covenant.

I know its there. I hope it is there. It just takes some Gandolf to step in and say, "Ya the P37 R2D2 jack motor. My granddad used to pump the well with it". I'm looking for "the holy grail"
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on June 20, 2018, 12:39:05 PM
Yup. That is the scale we are talking about. Mini, Micro scale sawmill. Something like a band saw. Enough to buck up coppice wood... or run a wheat grinder. If the job gets called by cloud... it's done. Do do something else. C5 rule of survival. If all else fails, lower your expectations.

I do seem to recall, back in the old days, there were DC motors long before we switched to AC. I am guessing there are some sitting in some old barns as antiques. But it is like searching for the secrets of the pyramids or the arc of the covenant.

I know its there. I hope it is there. It just takes some Gandolf to step in and say, "Ya the P37 R2D2 jack motor. My granddad used to pump the well with it". I'm looking for "the holy grail"
I have found the best source for variable dc motors to be treadmills. I have a few of them in my pile of interesting things. They would work on any panel from 12 volt to 100 volts combined voltage. They would work for pumps, bandsaws etc. For shits and giggles take a look at this guy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7gp3XjsH64 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7gp3XjsH64)
He makes homemade 12 volt batteries. a rack of these would act as the passthrough battery i mentioned above. my point is just that we always talk about the batteries but from a construction point of view they are the simplest component to recreate in a scaled down world. Much easier then a motor.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 20, 2018, 12:52:55 PM
DC motors are easy to come by. I've bought several off eBay. Like all electric motors the big ones are pricey. But they're out there.

My sawmill runs off gas. Maybe I could learn to make woodgas someday if David gives a workshop. I have a 100 c.i. Harley motor collecting dust in my garage that's never even been fired up.

I have one of these oldies. Last I checked, you could still get parts. It's a Mayco Timber Champ.

http://www.youtube.com/v/CYYD0eXM6mE&fs=1

Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on June 20, 2018, 01:28:26 PM
DC motors are easy to come by. I've bought several off eBay. Like all electric motors the big ones are pricey. But they're out there.

My sawmill runs off gas. Maybe I could learn to make woodgas someday if David gives a workshop. I have a 100 c.i. Harley motor collecting dust in my garage that's never even been fired up.

I have one of these oldies. Last I checked, you could still get parts. It's a Mayco Timber Champ.

http://www.youtube.com/v/CYYD0eXM6mE&fs=1
wood is the ultimate storage medium for sun as long as you have it. For small engines charcoal gasification for sure. My guru is gary Gilmore.  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yL79ci4TH7k (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yL79ci4TH7k)
Don't you have that 12 volt alternator genny?
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 20, 2018, 01:59:58 PM
Yes. Forgot that one. It runs off one those Harbor Freight Honda clones, an 8hp. I should take a charcoal and wood gas class from somebody.

Got an email from one of the stead neighbors. Somebody poached a deer and threw it in the creek to get rid of it. Just shot it and dumped the carcass. Didn't even take the meat.

No doubt some nearby kid. We have some real hillbillies around here, actually the descendants of the original ranchers, but real backwoods troglodytes, some of them. In this part of the country they're called "cedar choppers". 150 years ago the biggest cottage industry around here was charcoal, done in the old style.

Pisses me off when people kill game just for the hell of it.

Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on June 20, 2018, 02:42:54 PM
Yes. Forgot that one. It runs off one those Harbor Freight Honda clones, an 8hp. I should take a charcoal and wood gas class from somebody.

Got an email from one of the stead neighbors. Somebody poached a deer and threw it in the creek to get rid of it. Just shot it and dumped the carcass. Didn't even take the meat.

No doubt some nearby kid. We have some real hillbillies around here, actually the descendants of the original ranchers, but real backwoods troglodytes, some of them. In this part of the country they're called "cedar choppers". 150 years ago the biggest cottage industry around here was charcoal, done in the old style.

Pisses me off when people kill game just for the hell of it.
no decent hillbilly would waste the meat... insulting to us hillbillies 8) ;D
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on June 20, 2018, 02:48:05 PM
Yes. Forgot that one. It runs off one those Harbor Freight Honda clones, an 8hp. I should take a charcoal and wood gas class from somebody.

Got an email from one of the stead neighbors. Somebody poached a deer and threw it in the creek to get rid of it. Just shot it and dumped the carcass. Didn't even take the meat.

No doubt some nearby kid. We have some real hillbillies around here, actually the descendants of the original ranchers, but real backwoods troglodytes, some of them. In this part of the country they're called "cedar choppers". 150 years ago the biggest cottage industry around here was charcoal, done in the old style.

Pisses me off when people kill game just for the hell of it.
go to www.driveonwood.com (http://www.driveonwood.com)  its in the small engine section under charcoal gasification. Here is gary's main thread http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/simple-fire/398 (http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/simple-fire/398) All the tutorials videos and mentors you could possibly want are right there. My toys are there as well.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 20, 2018, 03:05:09 PM
Yes. Forgot that one. It runs off one those Harbor Freight Honda clones, an 8hp. I should take a charcoal and wood gas class from somebody.

Got an email from one of the stead neighbors. Somebody poached a deer and threw it in the creek to get rid of it. Just shot it and dumped the carcass. Didn't even take the meat.

No doubt some nearby kid. We have some real hillbillies around here, actually the descendants of the original ranchers, but real backwoods troglodytes, some of them. In this part of the country they're called "cedar choppers". 150 years ago the biggest cottage industry around here was charcoal, done in the old style.

Pisses me off when people kill game just for the hell of it.
go to www.driveonwood.com (http://www.driveonwood.com)  its in the small engine section under charcoal gasification. Here is gary's main thread http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/simple-fire/398 (http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/simple-fire/398) All the tutorials videos and mentors you could possibly want are right there. My toys are there as well.

I will make myself pay some attention. I know you were kind enough to post those before, and I failed to derive the benefit due to my laziness.

The reason I like classes is that it's much harder for me to screw off and not pay attention. There is a whole lot of training now on video, no matter what you want to study. I have stacks of expensive dental stuff I've never watched. To sit and watch a video is hard for me.

I know, just a complainer. I just know me, and my faults.. LOL.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on June 20, 2018, 03:15:29 PM
Yes. Forgot that one. It runs off one those Harbor Freight Honda clones, an 8hp. I should take a charcoal and wood gas class from somebody.

Got an email from one of the stead neighbors. Somebody poached a deer and threw it in the creek to get rid of it. Just shot it and dumped the carcass. Didn't even take the meat.

No doubt some nearby kid. We have some real hillbillies around here, actually the descendants of the original ranchers, but real backwoods troglodytes, some of them. In this part of the country they're called "cedar choppers". 150 years ago the biggest cottage industry around here was charcoal, done in the old style.

Pisses me off when people kill game just for the hell of it.
go to www.driveonwood.com (http://www.driveonwood.com)  its in the small engine section under charcoal gasification. Here is gary's main thread http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/simple-fire/398 (http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/simple-fire/398) All the tutorials videos and mentors you could possibly want are right there. My toys are there as well.

I will make myself pay some attention. I know you were kind enough to post those before, and I failed to derive the benefit due to my laziness.

The reason I like classes is that it's much harder for me to screw off and not pay attention. There is a whole lot of training now on video, no matter what you want to study. I have stacks of expensive dental stuff I've never watched. To sit and watch a video is hard for me.

I know, just a complainer. I just know me, and my faults.. LOL.
I hear you. Procrastination and I are old friends. Unfortunately there are no courses out there that I have seen worth taking... there is some interest in the permie world but well... many of them seem to lack the basic mech skills needed or the resources to see it through. That is just perception I'm prepared to be wrong.  Open Ecology had a charcoal training session on gasifiers but did not repeat it. 
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 20, 2018, 03:21:04 PM
Yup. That is the scale we are talking about. Mini, Micro scale sawmill. Something like a band saw. Enough to buck up coppice wood... or run a wheat grinder. If the job gets called by cloud... it's done. Do do something else. C5 rule of survival. If all else fails, lower your expectations.

I do seem to recall, back in the old days, there were DC motors long before we switched to AC. I am guessing there are some sitting in some old barns as antiques. But it is like searching for the secrets of the pyramids or the arc of the covenant.

I know its there. I hope it is there. It just takes some Gandolf to step in and say, "Ya the P37 R2D2 jack motor. My granddad used to pump the well with it". I'm looking for "the holy grail"

First off, you don't have "a cloud", you have partly sunny days where the sun goes in and out behind clouds all day.  Every time one of the cotton balls passes by your saw will slow down and lose power.  You could be right in the middle of a nice big log when the saw quits on you..  It can be mighty hard to get a saw that isn't running out of a big log, and equally hard to get it moving again.

I also don't see the purpose in this exercise, even after SHTF Day.  After the Oil runs out, there will be MILLIONS of automotiven batteries around to scavenge.  Recycling a lead acid batt is not complicated, I am sure little cottage industries will start up locally doing this.  There will still be batts around for the rest of your life.  Certainly lasting longer than plug ion power for your corded power tools.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on June 20, 2018, 05:21:31 PM
Yup. That is the scale we are talking about. Mini, Micro scale sawmill. Something like a band saw. Enough to buck up coppice wood... or run a wheat grinder. If the job gets called by cloud... it's done. Do do something else. C5 rule of survival. If all else fails, lower your expectations.

I do seem to recall, back in the old days, there were DC motors long before we switched to AC. I am guessing there are some sitting in some old barns as antiques. But it is like searching for the secrets of the pyramids or the arc of the covenant.

I know its there. I hope it is there. It just takes some Gandolf to step in and say, "Ya the P37 R2D2 jack motor. My granddad used to pump the well with it". I'm looking for "the holy grail"

First off, you don't have "a cloud", you have partly sunny days where the sun goes in and out behind clouds all day.  Every time one of the cotton balls passes by your saw will slow down and lose power.  You could be right in the middle of a nice big log when the saw quits on you..  It can be mighty hard to get a saw that isn't running out of a big log, and equally hard to get it moving again.

I also don't see the purpose in this exercise, even after SHTF Day.  After the Oil runs out, there will be MILLIONS of automotiven batteries around to scavenge.  Recycling a lead acid batt is not complicated, I am sure little cottage industries will start up locally doing this.  There will still be batts around for the rest of your life.  Certainly lasting longer than plug ion power for your corded power tools.

RE
Hang on there, big guy. No dis intended. There is no shortage of recyclables out there. It is my experience that 10 year batteries last 5. We have had to exchange 7 in the last year. SHTF, car batteries..... welllll, you have a year to keep them active and cycling.... if not, they are done. I have alot of batteries sitting around to figure out what to do with next .
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on June 20, 2018, 05:43:31 PM
Yup. That is the scale we are talking about. Mini, Micro scale sawmill. Something like a band saw. Enough to buck up coppice wood... or run a wheat grinder. If the job gets called by cloud... it's done. Do do something else. C5 rule of survival. If all else fails, lower your expectations.

I do seem to recall, back in the old days, there were DC motors long before we switched to AC. I am guessing there are some sitting in some old barns as antiques. But it is like searching for the secrets of the pyramids or the arc of the covenant.

I know its there. I hope it is there. It just takes some Gandolf to step in and say, "Ya the P37 R2D2 jack motor. My granddad used to pump the well with it". I'm looking for "the holy grail"
there are really old dc motors out there but most went to scrap when prices went through the roof. Many an old barnyard was cleaned out. When you get to that age of machinery in the country electricity never made it  so you start moving into the single cylinder real heavy iron engines that acted as prime movers for households. Here is a shot of a real old timer's stash who restores them near here. He collected all of them within 4 hours of his place... He had 3 shipping containers 2 barns and a 4 bay garage loaded with 1920's tractors and various machinery. I felt very mechanically unworthy. The biggest ones in the shot output about 8hp and weight about 400lbs. They cost more to buy new at the time then most cars do today in adjusted dollars. You bought it for life and passed it down. small genny heads, threshers, sawmills, countless add ons that you wheel up to it and belted to the flywheel. they ran on everything from kerosene to alcohol to gasoline. Some even ran on woodgas. I'd love to have one to play with but honestly a 160 dollar harbour freight engine will outperform it and last 1000 hours at low speed. Off track but the current thread is about rural resilient power non?
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 20, 2018, 05:52:09 PM
Yup. That is the scale we are talking about. Mini, Micro scale sawmill. Something like a band saw. Enough to buck up coppice wood... or run a wheat grinder. If the job gets called by cloud... it's done. Do do something else. C5 rule of survival. If all else fails, lower your expectations.

I do seem to recall, back in the old days, there were DC motors long before we switched to AC. I am guessing there are some sitting in some old barns as antiques. But it is like searching for the secrets of the pyramids or the arc of the covenant.

I know its there. I hope it is there. It just takes some Gandolf to step in and say, "Ya the P37 R2D2 jack motor. My granddad used to pump the well with it". I'm looking for "the holy grail"

First off, you don't have "a cloud", you have partly sunny days where the sun goes in and out behind clouds all day.  Every time one of the cotton balls passes by your saw will slow down and lose power.  You could be right in the middle of a nice big log when the saw quits on you..  It can be mighty hard to get a saw that isn't running out of a big log, and equally hard to get it moving again.

I also don't see the purpose in this exercise, even after SHTF Day.  After the Oil runs out, there will be MILLIONS of automotiven batteries around to scavenge.  Recycling a lead acid batt is not complicated, I am sure little cottage industries will start up locally doing this.  There will still be batts around for the rest of your life.  Certainly lasting longer than plug ion power for your corded power tools.

RE
Hang on there, big guy. No dis intended. There is no shortage of recyclables out there. It is my experience that 10 year batteries last 5. We have had to exchange 7 in the last year. SHTF, car batteries..... welllll, you have a year to keep them active and cycling.... if not, they are done. I have alot of batteries sitting around to figure out what to do with next .

My experience is different.  I find 5 year warantee batts will last 10 years if well cared for.

Besides which, as I said, when a lead acid is shot, it's not a complicated procedure to refabricate it.  You have a lot of sulfate build up on the plates, so you have to smelt them down and recast them, but anyone with a forge can do this.  Add some fresh H2SO4 (Sulfuric Acid) and you are good for another 5 years at least.  Making Sulfuric Acid is a bit of a challenge, but like I said small local cottage industries will evolve to refurbish these batts.  You can re-use the casing as well.

I was a chemist, so none of this seems the least bit complicated to me.  I suppose it does to you though.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on June 20, 2018, 05:54:38 PM
Yup. That is the scale we are talking about. Mini, Micro scale sawmill. Something like a band saw. Enough to buck up coppice wood... or run a wheat grinder. If the job gets called by cloud... it's done. Do do something else. C5 rule of survival. If all else fails, lower your expectations.

I do seem to recall, back in the old days, there were DC motors long before we switched to AC. I am guessing there are some sitting in some old barns as antiques. But it is like searching for the secrets of the pyramids or the arc of the covenant.

I know its there. I hope it is there. It just takes some Gandolf to step in and say, "Ya the P37 R2D2 jack motor. My granddad used to pump the well with it". I'm looking for "the holy grail"

First off, you don't have "a cloud", you have partly sunny days where the sun goes in and out behind clouds all day.  Every time one of the cotton balls passes by your saw will slow down and lose power.  You could be right in the middle of a nice big log when the saw quits on you..  It can be mighty hard to get a saw that isn't running out of a big log, and equally hard to get it moving again.

I also don't see the purpose in this exercise, even after SHTF Day.  After the Oil runs out, there will be MILLIONS of automotiven batteries around to scavenge.  Recycling a lead acid batt is not complicated, I am sure little cottage industries will start up locally doing this.  There will still be batts around for the rest of your life.  Certainly lasting longer than plug ion power for your corded power tools.

RE
Hang on there, big guy. No dis intended. There is no shortage of recyclables out there. It is my experience that 10 year batteries last 5. We have had to exchange 7 in the last year. SHTF, car batteries..... welllll, you have a year to keep them active and cycling.... if not, they are done. I have alot of batteries sitting around to figure out what to do with next .
The industry saying is battery banks don't die they are murdered. I regularly see 15-20 year old battery banks still running... and the flip side where a 10 year battery dies in 2...
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 20, 2018, 05:55:30 PM
Yup. That is the scale we are talking about. Mini, Micro scale sawmill. Something like a band saw. Enough to buck up coppice wood... or run a wheat grinder. If the job gets called by cloud... it's done. Do do something else. C5 rule of survival. If all else fails, lower your expectations.

I do seem to recall, back in the old days, there were DC motors long before we switched to AC. I am guessing there are some sitting in some old barns as antiques. But it is like searching for the secrets of the pyramids or the arc of the covenant.

I know its there. I hope it is there. It just takes some Gandolf to step in and say, "Ya the P37 R2D2 jack motor. My granddad used to pump the well with it". I'm looking for "the holy grail"
there are really old dc motors out there but most went to scrap when prices went through the roof. Many an old barnyard was cleaned out. When you get to that age of machinery in the country electricity never made it  so you start moving into the single cylinder real heavy iron engines that acted as prime movers for households. Here is a shot of a real old timer's stash who restores them near here. He collected all of them within 4 hours of his place... He had 3 shipping containers 2 barns and a 4 bay garage loaded with 1920's tractors and various machinery. I felt very mechanically unworthy. The biggest ones in the shot output about 8hp and weight about 400lbs. They cost more to buy new at the time then most cars do today in adjusted dollars. You bought it for life and passed it down. small genny heads, threshers, sawmills, countless add ons that you wheel up to it and belted to the flywheel. they ran on everything from kerosene to alcohol to gasoline. Some even ran on woodgas. I'd love to have one to play with but honestly a 160 dollar harbour freight engine will outperform it and last 1000 hours at low speed. Off track but the current thread is about rural resilient power non?

I have what's left of one sitting on the old well on my place. It still turns over but the valves don't move. Busted camshaft, I guess. The old ranchers went to that from the original pump, which was a small 3 legged windmill. I have what's left of that too. That well never ran off electricity, ever. The draw works is still there and the sucker rod is still in the well. What's left of their cistern is there too.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on June 20, 2018, 06:09:51 PM
Yup. That is the scale we are talking about. Mini, Micro scale sawmill. Something like a band saw. Enough to buck up coppice wood... or run a wheat grinder. If the job gets called by cloud... it's done. Do do something else. C5 rule of survival. If all else fails, lower your expectations.

I do seem to recall, back in the old days, there were DC motors long before we switched to AC. I am guessing there are some sitting in some old barns as antiques. But it is like searching for the secrets of the pyramids or the arc of the covenant.

I know its there. I hope it is there. It just takes some Gandolf to step in and say, "Ya the P37 R2D2 jack motor. My granddad used to pump the well with it". I'm looking for "the holy grail"
there are really old dc motors out there but most went to scrap when prices went through the roof. Many an old barnyard was cleaned out. When you get to that age of machinery in the country electricity never made it  so you start moving into the single cylinder real heavy iron engines that acted as prime movers for households. Here is a shot of a real old timer's stash who restores them near here. He collected all of them within 4 hours of his place... He had 3 shipping containers 2 barns and a 4 bay garage loaded with 1920's tractors and various machinery. I felt very mechanically unworthy. The biggest ones in the shot output about 8hp and weight about 400lbs. They cost more to buy new at the time then most cars do today in adjusted dollars. You bought it for life and passed it down. small genny heads, threshers, sawmills, countless add ons that you wheel up to it and belted to the flywheel. they ran on everything from kerosene to alcohol to gasoline. Some even ran on woodgas. I'd love to have one to play with but honestly a 160 dollar harbour freight engine will outperform it and last 1000 hours at low speed. Off track but the current thread is about rural resilient power non?

I have what's left of one sitting on the old well on my place. It still turns over but the valves don't move. Busted camshaft, I guess. The old ranchers went to that from the original pump, which was a small 3 legged windmill. I have what's left of that too. That well never ran off electricity, ever. The draw works is still there and the sucker rod is still in the well. What's left of their cistern is there too.
Nice! I love those examples of mechanical archeology. I believe they will be our tutorials about how to rebuild human scale machinery when the time comes.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 20, 2018, 06:13:30 PM
Yup. That is the scale we are talking about. Mini, Micro scale sawmill. Something like a band saw. Enough to buck up coppice wood... or run a wheat grinder. If the job gets called by cloud... it's done. Do do something else. C5 rule of survival. If all else fails, lower your expectations.

I do seem to recall, back in the old days, there were DC motors long before we switched to AC. I am guessing there are some sitting in some old barns as antiques. But it is like searching for the secrets of the pyramids or the arc of the covenant.

I know its there. I hope it is there. It just takes some Gandolf to step in and say, "Ya the P37 R2D2 jack motor. My granddad used to pump the well with it". I'm looking for "the holy grail"

First off, you don't have "a cloud", you have partly sunny days where the sun goes in and out behind clouds all day.  Every time one of the cotton balls passes by your saw will slow down and lose power.  You could be right in the middle of a nice big log when the saw quits on you..  It can be mighty hard to get a saw that isn't running out of a big log, and equally hard to get it moving again.

I also don't see the purpose in this exercise, even after SHTF Day.  After the Oil runs out, there will be MILLIONS of automotiven batteries around to scavenge.  Recycling a lead acid batt is not complicated, I am sure little cottage industries will start up locally doing this.  There will still be batts around for the rest of your life.  Certainly lasting longer than plug ion power for your corded power tools.

RE
Hang on there, big guy. No dis intended. There is no shortage of recyclables out there. It is my experience that 10 year batteries last 5. We have had to exchange 7 in the last year. SHTF, car batteries..... welllll, you have a year to keep them active and cycling.... if not, they are done. I have alot of batteries sitting around to figure out what to do with next .

My experience is different.  I find 5 year warantee batts will last 10 years if well cared for.

Besides which, as I said, when a lead acid is shot, it's not a complicated procedure to refabricate it.  You have a lot of sulfate build up on the plates, so you have to smelt them down and recast them, but anyone with a forge can do this.  Add some fresh H2SO4 (Sulfuric Acid) and you are good for another 5 years at least.  Making Sulfuric Acid is a bit of a challenge, but like I said small local cottage industries will evolve to refurbish these batts.  You can re-use the casing as well.

I was a chemist, so none of this seems the least bit complicated to me.  I suppose it does to you though.

RE

My experience is closer to C5's. Battery maintenance is a challenge for me. I've even bought those electronic thingies that are supposed to prevent sulfating. Do they work? I have no idea. How can you tell? You can't. LOL.

I've probably gone through more than 20 trickle chargers in the last ten years, and I still lose batteries that I'm not even using at all!


Talk is cheap.

Lets see how long it takes you to make a scratch made battery that delivers 12 volts reliably, Mr. Wizard. You know how to calculate that? How many plates? How much electrolyte? What molarity?

How do you make H2SO4? What's your starting material?

I understand the theory. Making one would be a challenge. Easier than building a motor? Depends on what kind of shop you have, and how good a machinist you are.

It's easier to copy what somebody else made than get there by trial and error. But I never even considered making my own battery. It's hard to get liquid electrolyte now, in BAU times. You have to order it, and its a hazardous material. I bet you couldn't get it delivered where you are, at all.

Cottage industry? Or lost knowledge? I hope it's the former.

Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on June 20, 2018, 06:20:13 PM
FYI... I was at the Stihl distributor yesterday. We decided we needed a (Blank) to help with what we are doing. Doesn't matter what. Farms differ. It took us 2 years to decide on it.

While there. I asked about electric chainsaws. He said the battery ones were flying off the shelf. I asked him how long the batteries last. He said about two years...(insert cricket sound here).

Aint doin it.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on June 20, 2018, 06:22:43 PM
Yup. That is the scale we are talking about. Mini, Micro scale sawmill. Something like a band saw. Enough to buck up coppice wood... or run a wheat grinder. If the job gets called by cloud... it's done. Do do something else. C5 rule of survival. If all else fails, lower your expectations.

I do seem to recall, back in the old days, there were DC motors long before we switched to AC. I am guessing there are some sitting in some old barns as antiques. But it is like searching for the secrets of the pyramids or the arc of the covenant.

I know its there. I hope it is there. It just takes some Gandolf to step in and say, "Ya the P37 R2D2 jack motor. My granddad used to pump the well with it". I'm looking for "the holy grail"

First off, you don't have "a cloud", you have partly sunny days where the sun goes in and out behind clouds all day.  Every time one of the cotton balls passes by your saw will slow down and lose power.  You could be right in the middle of a nice big log when the saw quits on you..  It can be mighty hard to get a saw that isn't running out of a big log, and equally hard to get it moving again.

I also don't see the purpose in this exercise, even after SHTF Day.  After the Oil runs out, there will be MILLIONS of automotiven batteries around to scavenge.  Recycling a lead acid batt is not complicated, I am sure little cottage industries will start up locally doing this.  There will still be batts around for the rest of your life.  Certainly lasting longer than plug ion power for your corded power tools.

RE
Hang on there, big guy. No dis intended. There is no shortage of recyclables out there. It is my experience that 10 year batteries last 5. We have had to exchange 7 in the last year. SHTF, car batteries..... welllll, you have a year to keep them active and cycling.... if not, they are done. I have alot of batteries sitting around to figure out what to do with next .

My experience is different.  I find 5 year warantee batts will last 10 years if well cared for.

Besides which, as I said, when a lead acid is shot, it's not a complicated procedure to refabricate it.  You have a lot of sulfate build up on the plates, so you have to smelt them down and recast them, but anyone with a forge can do this.  Add some fresh H2SO4 (Sulfuric Acid) and you are good for another 5 years at least.  Making Sulfuric Acid is a bit of a challenge, but like I said small local cottage industries will evolve to refurbish these batts.  You can re-use the casing as well.

I was a chemist, so none of this seems the least bit complicated to me.  I suppose it does to you though.

RE

My experience is closer to C5's. Battery maintenance is a challenge for me. I've even bought those electronic thingies that are supposed to prevent sulfating. Do they work? I have no idea. How can you tell? You can't. LOL.

I've probably gone through more than 20 trickle chargers in the last ten years, and I still lose batteries that I'm not even using at all!


Talk is cheap.

Lets see how long it takes you to make a scratch made battery that delivers 12 volts reliably, Mr. Wizard. You know how to calculate that? How many plates? How much electrolyte? What molarity?

How do you make H2SO4? What's your starting material?

I understand the theory. Making one would be a challenge. Easier than building a motor? Depends on what kind of shop you have, and how good a machinist you are.

It's easier to copy what somebody else made than get there by trial and error. But I never even considered making my own battery. It's hard to get liquid electrolyte now, in BAU times. You have to order it, and its a hazardous material. I bet you couldn't get it delivered where you are, at all.

Cottage industry? Or lost knowledge? I hope it's the former.
take a look at the link to the battery video I posted. His channel has some really nice work. I did not know you could use epson salt or ammonium sulphate as the electrolyte... Both are easier to produce then some things. Someday when life is less crazy I have to try that!!!
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on June 20, 2018, 06:52:33 PM
FYI... I was at the Stihl distributor yesterday. We decided we needed a (Blank) to help with what we are doing. Doesn't matter what. Farms differ. It took us 2 years to decide on it.

While there. I asked about electric chainsaws. He said the battery ones were flying off the shelf. I asked him how long the batteries last. He said about two years...(insert cricket sound here).

Aint doin it.
Ha! " insert cricket sounds"... I have had those moments. I just bought a used stihl corded trimmer yesterday. very nice the motor is on the back for better balance and quiet.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 20, 2018, 06:53:16 PM
Yup. That is the scale we are talking about. Mini, Micro scale sawmill. Something like a band saw. Enough to buck up coppice wood... or run a wheat grinder. If the job gets called by cloud... it's done. Do do something else. C5 rule of survival. If all else fails, lower your expectations.

I do seem to recall, back in the old days, there were DC motors long before we switched to AC. I am guessing there are some sitting in some old barns as antiques. But it is like searching for the secrets of the pyramids or the arc of the covenant.

I know its there. I hope it is there. It just takes some Gandolf to step in and say, "Ya the P37 R2D2 jack motor. My granddad used to pump the well with it". I'm looking for "the holy grail"

First off, you don't have "a cloud", you have partly sunny days where the sun goes in and out behind clouds all day.  Every time one of the cotton balls passes by your saw will slow down and lose power.  You could be right in the middle of a nice big log when the saw quits on you..  It can be mighty hard to get a saw that isn't running out of a big log, and equally hard to get it moving again.

I also don't see the purpose in this exercise, even after SHTF Day.  After the Oil runs out, there will be MILLIONS of automotiven batteries around to scavenge.  Recycling a lead acid batt is not complicated, I am sure little cottage industries will start up locally doing this.  There will still be batts around for the rest of your life.  Certainly lasting longer than plug ion power for your corded power tools.

RE
Hang on there, big guy. No dis intended. There is no shortage of recyclables out there. It is my experience that 10 year batteries last 5. We have had to exchange 7 in the last year. SHTF, car batteries..... welllll, you have a year to keep them active and cycling.... if not, they are done. I have alot of batteries sitting around to figure out what to do with next .

My experience is different.  I find 5 year warantee batts will last 10 years if well cared for.

Besides which, as I said, when a lead acid is shot, it's not a complicated procedure to refabricate it.  You have a lot of sulfate build up on the plates, so you have to smelt them down and recast them, but anyone with a forge can do this.  Add some fresh H2SO4 (Sulfuric Acid) and you are good for another 5 years at least.  Making Sulfuric Acid is a bit of a challenge, but like I said small local cottage industries will evolve to refurbish these batts.  You can re-use the casing as well.

I was a chemist, so none of this seems the least bit complicated to me.  I suppose it does to you though.

RE

My experience is closer to C5's. Battery maintenance is a challenge for me. I've even bought those electronic thingies that are supposed to prevent sulfating. Do they work? I have no idea. How can you tell? You can't. LOL.

I've probably gone through more than 20 trickle chargers in the last ten years, and I still lose batteries that I'm not even using at all!


Talk is cheap.

Lets see how long it takes you to make a scratch made battery that delivers 12 volts reliably, Mr. Wizard. You know how to calculate that? How many plates? How much electrolyte? What molarity?

How do you make H2SO4? What's your starting material?

I understand the theory. Making one would be a challenge. Easier than building a motor? Depends on what kind of shop you have, and how good a machinist you are.

It's easier to copy what somebody else made than get there by trial and error. But I never even considered making my own battery. It's hard to get liquid electrolyte now, in BAU times. You have to order it, and its a hazardous material. I bet you couldn't get it delivered where you are, at all.

Cottage industry? Or lost knowledge? I hope it's the former.

It would take some practice, no doubt there.  Mainly you copy the design of the already existing ones, then modify as necessary if it's not putting out enough juice.  When you smelt out the PbSO4 (lead sulfate) to get the lead, you'll also get sulfur you can re-use.

I don't think most individuals (except for DB of course  :icon_sunny:) would be able to do this, but in a SUN☼ Community one person can become the Batt Expert for the community.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on June 20, 2018, 07:03:42 PM
Yup. That is the scale we are talking about. Mini, Micro scale sawmill. Something like a band saw. Enough to buck up coppice wood... or run a wheat grinder. If the job gets called by cloud... it's done. Do do something else. C5 rule of survival. If all else fails, lower your expectations.

I do seem to recall, back in the old days, there were DC motors long before we switched to AC. I am guessing there are some sitting in some old barns as antiques. But it is like searching for the secrets of the pyramids or the arc of the covenant.

I know its there. I hope it is there. It just takes some Gandolf to step in and say, "Ya the P37 R2D2 jack motor. My granddad used to pump the well with it". I'm looking for "the holy grail"

First off, you don't have "a cloud", you have partly sunny days where the sun goes in and out behind clouds all day.  Every time one of the cotton balls passes by your saw will slow down and lose power.  You could be right in the middle of a nice big log when the saw quits on you..  It can be mighty hard to get a saw that isn't running out of a big log, and equally hard to get it moving again.

I also don't see the purpose in this exercise, even after SHTF Day.  After the Oil runs out, there will be MILLIONS of automotiven batteries around to scavenge.  Recycling a lead acid batt is not complicated, I am sure little cottage industries will start up locally doing this.  There will still be batts around for the rest of your life.  Certainly lasting longer than plug ion power for your corded power tools.

RE
Hang on there, big guy. No dis intended. There is no shortage of recyclables out there. It is my experience that 10 year batteries last 5. We have had to exchange 7 in the last year. SHTF, car batteries..... welllll, you have a year to keep them active and cycling.... if not, they are done. I have alot of batteries sitting around to figure out what to do with next .

My experience is different.  I find 5 year warantee batts will last 10 years if well cared for.

Besides which, as I said, when a lead acid is shot, it's not a complicated procedure to refabricate it.  You have a lot of sulfate build up on the plates, so you have to smelt them down and recast them, but anyone with a forge can do this.  Add some fresh H2SO4 (Sulfuric Acid) and you are good for another 5 years at least.  Making Sulfuric Acid is a bit of a challenge, but like I said small local cottage industries will evolve to refurbish these batts.  You can re-use the casing as well.

I was a chemist, so none of this seems the least bit complicated to me.  I suppose it does to you though.

RE

My experience is closer to C5's. Battery maintenance is a challenge for me. I've even bought those electronic thingies that are supposed to prevent sulfating. Do they work? I have no idea. How can you tell? You can't. LOL.

I've probably gone through more than 20 trickle chargers in the last ten years, and I still lose batteries that I'm not even using at all!


Talk is cheap.

Lets see how long it takes you to make a scratch made battery that delivers 12 volts reliably, Mr. Wizard. You know how to calculate that? How many plates? How much electrolyte? What molarity?

How do you make H2SO4? What's your starting material?

I understand the theory. Making one would be a challenge. Easier than building a motor? Depends on what kind of shop you have, and how good a machinist you are.

It's easier to copy what somebody else made than get there by trial and error. But I never even considered making my own battery. It's hard to get liquid electrolyte now, in BAU times. You have to order it, and its a hazardous material. I bet you couldn't get it delivered where you are, at all.

Cottage industry? Or lost knowledge? I hope it's the former.

It would take some practice, no doubt there.  Mainly you copy the design of the already existing ones, then modify as necessary if it's not putting out enough juice.  When you smelt out the PbSO4 (lead sulfate) to get the lead, you'll also get sulfur you can re-use.

I don't think most individuals (except for DB of course  :icon_sunny:) would be able to do this, but in a SUN☼ Community one person can become the Batt Expert for the community.

RE
it would be a royal pain in the ass but i know 2 or 3 or people who could do it around here. the trick would be keeping them fed long enough to work out the kinks! here is how surrette makes theirs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Sg-u0_7d1g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Sg-u0_7d1g)
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 20, 2018, 07:19:19 PM
FYI... I was at the Stihl distributor yesterday. We decided we needed a (Blank) to help with what we are doing. Doesn't matter what. Farms differ. It took us 2 years to decide on it.

While there. I asked about electric chainsaws. He said the battery ones were flying off the shelf. I asked him how long the batteries last. He said about two years...(insert cricket sound here).

Aint doin it.

Where pray tell do you intend to get the juice for your robust Stihl corded tools?  You have a wood gas gennie like DB?  Where will you get gas for the gas fired chain saw?

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on June 20, 2018, 07:44:08 PM
FYI... I was at the Stihl distributor yesterday. We decided we needed a (Blank) to help with what we are doing. Doesn't matter what. Farms differ. It took us 2 years to decide on it.

While there. I asked about electric chainsaws. He said the battery ones were flying off the shelf. I asked him how long the batteries last. He said about two years...(insert cricket sound here).

Aint doin it.

Where pray tell do you intend to get the juice for your robust Stihl corded tools?  You have a wood gas gennie like DB?  Where will you get gas for the gas fired chain saw?

RE
Ease up on the snarky there RE... if corded probably an inverter in 2 stroke well He probably stockpiles gas like "everyone" else. Or maybe has a stash of this stuff: https://en.stihl.ca/motomix.aspx (https://en.stihl.ca/motomix.aspx) good for 5 years on the shelf or this stuff or this one from Husqvarna https://www.husqvarna.com/us/accessories/2-stroke-fuel-oil/xp-2-stroke-pre-mixed-fuel/581158701/ (https://www.husqvarna.com/us/accessories/2-stroke-fuel-oil/xp-2-stroke-pre-mixed-fuel/581158701/)  good for 10 years synfuel made from natural gas... our fire department stashes this stuff... I've tried a can it rocks. its 6 times the cost of fuel today but still cheap compared to sawing by hand.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 20, 2018, 07:54:18 PM
FYI... I was at the Stihl distributor yesterday. We decided we needed a (Blank) to help with what we are doing. Doesn't matter what. Farms differ. It took us 2 years to decide on it.

While there. I asked about electric chainsaws. He said the battery ones were flying off the shelf. I asked him how long the batteries last. He said about two years...(insert cricket sound here).

Aint doin it.

Where pray tell do you intend to get the juice for your robust Stihl corded tools?  You have a wood gas gennie like DB?  Where will you get gas for the gas fired chain saw?

RE
Ease up on the snarky there RE... if corded probably an inverter in 2 stroke well He probably stockpiles gas like "everyone" else. Or maybe has a stash of this stuff: https://en.stihl.ca/motomix.aspx (https://en.stihl.ca/motomix.aspx) good for 5 years on the shelf or this stuff or this one from Husqvarna https://www.husqvarna.com/us/accessories/2-stroke-fuel-oil/xp-2-stroke-pre-mixed-fuel/581158701/ (https://www.husqvarna.com/us/accessories/2-stroke-fuel-oil/xp-2-stroke-pre-mixed-fuel/581158701/)  good for 10 years synfuel made from natural gas... our fire department stashes this stuff... I've tried a can it rocks. its 6 times the cost of fuel today but still cheap compared to sawing by hand.

If you have gas, duh you can run gas powered tools and a gas gennie.  How long will his stockpile of gas last?  Will it last more than the 2 years estimated for the tool batts?

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on June 20, 2018, 08:29:48 PM
Hang on, About to pass out but will power through it. The answer is in the question. How would you find power? The grid, to start. If your grid is not working, maybe someone else's is. maybe a neighbor. You car with an inverter on it. Car not working? someone else's car. Someone else's inverter. Your generator. Someone else"s. That guy with the propane generator and your barbecue tank. Your solar system. Someone else's. That guy down the road turning a alternator into a wind mill or running off a downhill spring. Wood gas into my geni. I can pull off primative woodgas.....but I would hate to do the regular engine de gumming as it is a dirty fuel. Woodgas good. Maintinance....outside of my skillset. Alcohol. but that requires a modified carburetor. same with methane from percolating animal poop. primative hydrogen. Ninjaing into big box store with engine block heater plug ins for a quick electrical job or battery recharge. (Been there. Done that) Pirating electricity that the city turned off by knowing how to turn it back on.(Learned that from anarchist squatters)....Etc. Etc. Etc.

You have options based on what is available.... and someday, you will just be out of options and onto hand tools and limited benefits. But before that time is for keeps, corded gives you diverse, improvised options. Thus, RESILIENCE.... and my point.

passing out about.....zzzzzz
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 20, 2018, 09:03:46 PM
Hang on, About to pass out but will power through it. The answer is in the question. How would you find power? The grid, to start. If your grid is not working, maybe someone else's is. maybe a neighbor. You car with an inverter on it. Car not working? someone else's car. Someone else's inverter. Your generator. Someone else"s. That guy with the propane generator and your barbecue tank. Your solar system. Someone else's. That guy down the road turning a alternator into a wind mill or running off a downhill spring. Wood gas into my geni. I can pull off primative woodgas.....but I would hate to do the regular engine de gumming as it is a dirty fuel. Woodgas good. Maintinance....outside of my skillset. Alcohol. but that requires a modified carburetor. same with methane from percolating animal poop. primative hydrogen. Ninjaing into big box store with engine block heater plug ins for a quick electrical job or battery recharge. (Been there. Done that) Pirating electricity that the city turned off by knowing how to turn it back on.(Learned that from anarchist squatters)....Etc. Etc. Etc.

You have options based on what is available.... and someday, you will just be out of options and onto hand tools and limited benefits. But before that time is for keeps, corded gives you diverse, improvised options. Thus, RESILIENCE.... and my point.

passing out about.....zzzzzz

In a real SHTF scenario, there is no grid power, and none of your neighbors have gas for their generators either.  You are shit out of electricity and gas available from the industrial infrastructure to power these things.  If you can't power them yourself, get out your hand axe.

BUT...if you have Batts and a good Solar Sertup, you're not down to hand tools YET.  As demonstrated also by DB, you CAN make Batts to substitute when the batts these tools come with go south.  I would however lay in a good supply of them in the preps.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: K-Dog on June 20, 2018, 09:21:38 PM
There will still be batts around for the rest of your life.  Certainly lasting longer than plug ion power for your corded power tools.
RE

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F10ovsMSaDDC6gE%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1)

Rebuilding lead acid batteries is a dirty dangerous job and requires all kinds of specialized equipment.  Any cottage industry would poison their workers and make shit batteries with no shelf life.  Making long life lead acid batteries requires special considerations and even then if they are not charged within a year they sulfate.  Edison cells are far better for collapse.  Too bad they are not made anymore.  After collapse things will be chaotic and no economy will exist to support cottage industries of any kind.  It will be game over and we will have the die-off.  You know, the one even doomers deny.

Anybody want to pull slow catabolic collapse out of their ass?  It feels so good.  So good to hear you can get someone to take your money preaching it to you.
May as well do both at the same time.  They pull catabolic collapse out of their ass while you pull these out of yours.  Feel twice as good so I'm told.

(https://images.betteridge.com/images/products/thumbs/tahitian-pearl-necklace-diamond-ball-clasp.jpg)

Dark ages with battery fed lighting.  Not going to happen.  When we get our dark ages it will be the real thing.  No compromise.

Only way you are going to get your batteries is if we go into collapse with a socialist government but socialists in America were wiped out 100 years ago. 

Kiss that dream goodbye.  After SHTF it is game over.  That is the hard truth.  Nothing about the life we have now goes forward.  Capitalism was the dinosaur that ruled the earth.  Socialism was the little mammal-like critter that could have survived after a SHTF comet splashes hard rock, but they were wiped out.

(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QM0HMxheR50/UPMaHBB5N9I/AAAAAAAAAOg/cgPbc2TCuuo/s1600/USAdebs1904.jpg)

If you know anyone who is 'into' lead acid batteries you know their garage quickly becomes full of worthless sulfated junk.  That you assumed lead acid batteries could be whipped up like tallow candles at Jamestown shows you have not had your share of dead ass batteries.

(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/28/1d/8d/281d8ddeaac402eeae0c0edbf8d67e8f--bayberry-candles-candle-making.jpg)

One of the plates uses lead oxide.  Very toxic.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/25/Recharged.gif)

http://www.integrachem.com/msds/L285_003.pdf (http://www.integrachem.com/msds/L285_003.pdf)  <== Here is the Lead Oxide Material Safety Data Sheet.

To form the lead oxide atomized lead is sprayed into the air.  Long life batteries also need Antimony and their construction must be carefully managed so a surplus of plate material of the correct ratio prolongs life.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Palloy2 on June 20, 2018, 09:45:51 PM
Quote
RE: If you can't power them yourself, get out your hand axe.

3 cheers for the good old hand axe. 
3 cheers for the bow saw and a packet of spare blades.
3 cheers for the log splitter and sledge hammer.
No need to worry about power. No getting frustrated at rechargable batteries.  No noise interfering with the sweet sounds of the birds singing.  Ugh, I wouldn't want to do it myself, that's not civilised is it? - what the entire world used prior to 1850.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 21, 2018, 12:38:37 AM
Rebuilding lead acid batteries is a dirty dangerous job and requires all kinds of specialized equipment.

Nobody ever claimed the post-SHTF environment would be safe & clean.  Far as equipment goes, plenty of that to scavenge also, since most of the factories that do this now will be closed and have no staff because they are mostly DEAD.

That being said, I am not as pessimistic as you are, I think there will be quite a few years, perhaps even decades, where the products of the Age of Oil are scavenged , repurposed and re-used.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Agent Graves on June 21, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You need to consider calories burned chopping wood by hand vs the benefit of heat. Below freezing, its easy for people, especially the very young and old to get sick without the heat. Anything above freezing theres probably no real need to heat and just the cooking and staying near it is enough. Thats probably why log cabins were so small,  able to be heated just from a cooking fire or stove. too much energy, meaning food, is spent if a lot of wood has to be cut by hand. With softwood like pine or wattyl you have a chance. Hardwood is just too much work if you want to take sections from the trunk and not just the branches. Thats the case at least with an axe, using a long 2 man saw might be ok but Ive never seen them except as museum pieces. I dont believe you can still buy them anywhere. so what are the options?

Maybe take chainsaw chains and put a handle on each end for 2 men to work. At about 35$ each and if sharpened properly lasting 3 yrs, youre looking at 100$ a decade, post collapse.  Obviously needs experimentation prior to forking out.

Maybe a bicycle on a stand with a circular saw blade attached to the axle instead of the wheel could be set up and logs slowly rolled into the spinning blade. I dont know how much those cost, Im guessing roughly 10$ each. Relatively cheap and taking very little space to store.

Keeping a 'gas' chainsaw going.. I use paint thinner to turn stale fuel into something with octane again. Im guessing that if it was in a full 44 gallon drum properly closed, it would last a lot longer before going stale due to less contact with air. Im going to estimate 1 litre or 1 pint of gasoline or petrol needed per week in winter where its below freezing. A 44 gallon drum would give you about 150 weeks or 3 years if you had a 20l drum of thinner to go with it once opened. Would a 2nd 44 last another 3 yrs? I dont know, but I doubt it, so this solution is probably only good for 5 yrs at the most. If you had huge fields of corn and distilling equipment and expertise you might make enough alcohol to add with your home made vegetable oil and keep running the machine as long as it lasts on that blend. Keep in mind that the noise from the chainsaw will be heard and able to be followed from miles away when there is no other machines running. I would rather consume the alcohol myself anyway.

Electric chainsaw.. this is really the heart of the matter being debated here. Im guessing these are 1000-2000w, I had an AC corded one a long time ago but dont remember the power. Youre not taking that amount of power from lead acid battery or panels very far into the forest, so youre limited to the reach of your cords from the solar system, usually at your house. So realistically, whatever logs you have dumped near enough to the house in advance is all you have. A semi load might last a few years. Somewhere like texas where there are probably at least a hundred clear blue sky days a year, no problem at all if you can get your wood near enough. Canada or Alaska would be a summer only proposition and even then, depending on weather week by week. A Tesla Power Wall (lithium ion house battery with inverter) in a big backpack could be used to cut a decent amount of wood away from home, if you knew how to modify it to match the right volts to your chainsaw, or could just buy the right voltage chainsaw. These are supposed to be good for 10 years, as yet we dont know. Not fast charging or recharging when hot would make it last a lot longer than the power tools and mobile phone batts anyway.

Battery powered... You have 2-3 yrs and theyre shot whether you are using all the time cycling, or not at all, including unopened still in the packet.  This applies to all the battery operated power tools which are a lot more about getting you to replace things and spend money regularly than necessity for most buyers. If you are a tradesman who uses these every day in your work, especially if you go to all different places where power is not available, they make good sense. If you work out of your own garage, for most of the tools its not worth it.

Some things will be done in your workshop like making furniture etc and a lot of other things done elsewhere, like new building. If you can get nicad batts the right volts they can last a lot longer if you havent started using them yet, maybe 10 yrs. I don't think anyone is going to bother trying to do that, since they will last at most half as long on a charge and need to be kept very close to the tool. It would be much easier to work from car and truck batts, at either 12, 18, 24 or even 36v. These like to be kept fully charged and can last 5 yrs like that. If you are using them to power tools, that is cycling them regularly, they will last about 2 yrs. If you can bring the solar panels to the job site and work on sunny days, you can prevent that to some extent. Cost is about 100-150$ for each car batt depending on size or amp hrs.

Deep cycle batts are the opposite, they do not want to be kept fully charged and need to be cycled. They cost a lot more but if the goal is 10 yrs use, are the way to go, whether you are working close to home using AC cord tools, or taking your batt powered DC tools along with the heavy batts to the construction site. This will give you 10 yrs use instead of 2-3, including a batt powered chainsaw, although I doubt those are meant for making a load of firewood anyway. That all depends on your inverter for AC and charge controller also lasting ten yrs after you cant replace them, these things can be stored as spares for an indefinite period if you can afford it though. The skills with electronics to repair them, as well as to recondition batteries would obviously extend this indefinitely.

Whichever way you try and work it, sooner or later it could come down to simple hand tools. So start collecting as many as possible of good quality, as well as the nails, screws, nuts and bolts, blades, sandpaper etc that goes with them.

Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 21, 2018, 05:35:52 AM
There will still be batts around for the rest of your life.  Certainly lasting longer than plug ion power for your corded power tools.
RE

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F10ovsMSaDDC6gE%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1)

Rebuilding lead acid batteries is a dirty dangerous job and requires all kinds of specialized equipment.  Any cottage industry would poison their workers and make shit batteries with no shelf life.  Making long life lead acid batteries requires special considerations and even then if they are not charged within a year they sulfate.  Edison cells are far better for collapse.  Too bad they are not made anymore.  After collapse things will be chaotic and no economy will exist to support cottage industries of any kind.  It will be game over and we will have the die-off.  You know, the one even doomers deny.

Anybody want to pull slow catabolic collapse out of their ass?  It feels so good.  So good to hear you can get someone to take your money preaching it to you.
May as well do both at the same time.  They pull catabolic collapse out of their ass while you pull these out of yours.  Feel twice as good so I'm told.

(https://images.betteridge.com/images/products/thumbs/tahitian-pearl-necklace-diamond-ball-clasp.jpg)

Dark ages with battery fed lighting.  Not going to happen.  When we get our dark ages it will be the real thing.  No compromise.

Only way you are going to get your batteries is if we go into collapse with a socialist government but socialists in America were wiped out 100 years ago. 

Kiss that dream goodbye.  After SHTF it is game over.  That is the hard truth.  Nothing about the life we have now goes forward.  Capitalism was the dinosaur that ruled the earth.  Socialism was the little mammal-like critter that could have survived after a SHTF comet splashes hard rock, but they were wiped out.

(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QM0HMxheR50/UPMaHBB5N9I/AAAAAAAAAOg/cgPbc2TCuuo/s1600/USAdebs1904.jpg)

If you know anyone who is 'into' lead acid batteries you know their garage quickly becomes full of worthless sulfated junk.  That you assumed lead acid batteries could be whipped up like tallow candles at Jamestown shows you have not had your share of dead ass batteries.

(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/28/1d/8d/281d8ddeaac402eeae0c0edbf8d67e8f--bayberry-candles-candle-making.jpg)

One of the plates uses lead oxide.  Very toxic.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/25/Recharged.gif)

http://www.integrachem.com/msds/L285_003.pdf (http://www.integrachem.com/msds/L285_003.pdf)  <== Here is the Lead Oxide Material Safety Data Sheet.

To form the lead oxide atomized lead is sprayed into the air.  Long life batteries also need Antimony and their construction must be carefully managed so a surplus of plate material of the correct ratio prolongs life.

I was thinking last night that we used to have the kind of battery "recycling" centers RE described, and now we call them "environmental clean-up sites".

There is (or was)  one here downtown near the river.  I think they had to remove a whole lot of topsoil. Who knows what really happened to it.

Nevertheless, when the laws aren't there to prevent it, I expect someone will very willingly poison the environment and themselves to "get the lead out".  We don't use film x-rays anymore now that we've gone all digital, but back int the day I used to accumulate big chunks of lead, just from the tiny foil strips in dental films. We had trouble getting someone to take it.

Sulfuric acid isn't easy at all to make, unless you have the starting materials handy. One process uses elctrolysis of water. Starting material is....hydrobromic acid.

Nope. Don't got.

You can oxidize sulfur dioxide...nope.

Or...you could find some copper sulfate...maybe, not sure where, and use electrolysis to convert that.

Lacking, is an easy way to go from elemental sulfur straight to the sulfuric acid, although I'm sure somebody does have a hack to get there..

In any case, I already said sulfur is a good prep, because you need it to make black powder. So buy a couple hundred pounds extra for batteries. You'll be glad you did once you figure out how to turn it into one of the of the above starting materials. You can use your still functional PV's to provide electricity for the conversion, if required. Hopefully.

We already have slow catabolic collapse. But I agree with K-Dog, basically. With a little climate change thrown into the mix, or some other horseman of the apocalypse, things become more chaotic and a temporary or permanent loss of all technology looks pretty likely.



Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: K-Dog on June 21, 2018, 07:12:48 AM
Rebuilding lead acid batteries is a dirty dangerous job and requires all kinds of specialized equipment.

Nobody ever claimed the post-SHTF environment would be safe & clean.  Far as equipment goes, plenty of that to scavenge also, since most of the factories that do this now will be closed and have no staff because they are mostly DEAD.

That being said, I am not as pessimistic as you are, I think there will be quite a few years, perhaps even decades, where the products of the Age of Oil are scavenged , repurposed and re-used.

RE

I admit to suffering from an excessive case of Diner clarity this week.  I've beens spending a bit of time between our two different emerging Americas.  Signed a ballot initiative to keep guns out of schools a homeless woman was circulating in one of our new nations.  Did it to make her happy.

She did think it fair rich kids get to be home schooled but poor kids have to worry about being shot. 

So one America is totally ineffective in stopping doom and that America is rather high on the ignorance scale.  The other America creates the doom because it makes them money and they imagine they will be able to purchase a safe haven because they have the poor people's money.  They don't give a fuck and say science will save them if pressed.  They are less ignorant factually (except[t for the science part, that's total ignorance) but their layers of denial make them equally stupid.

The oil trains going north for export have been joined by coal trains, big ones.  I feel like the last one who cares.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on June 21, 2018, 07:41:50 AM
You need to consider calories burned chopping wood by hand vs the benefit of heat. Below freezing, its easy for people, especially the very young and old to get sick without the heat. Anything above freezing theres probably no real need to heat and just the cooking and staying near it is enough. Thats probably why log cabins were so small,  able to be heated just from a cooking fire or stove. too much energy, meaning food, is spent if a lot of wood has to be cut by hand. With softwood like pine or wattyl you have a chance. Hardwood is just too much work if you want to take sections from the trunk and not just the branches. Thats the case at least with an axe, using a long 2 man saw might be ok but Ive never seen them except as museum pieces. I dont believe you can still buy them anywhere. so what are the options?

Maybe take chainsaw chains and put a handle on each end for 2 men to work. At about 35$ each and if sharpened properly lasting 3 yrs, youre looking at 100$ a decade, post collapse.  Obviously needs experimentation prior to forking out.

Maybe a bicycle on a stand with a circular saw blade attached to the axle instead of the wheel could be set up and logs slowly rolled into the spinning blade. I dont know how much those cost, Im guessing roughly 10$ each. Relatively cheap and taking very little space to store.

Keeping a 'gas' chainsaw going.. I use paint thinner to turn stale fuel into something with octane again. Im guessing that if it was in a full 44 gallon drum properly closed, it would last a lot longer before going stale due to less contact with air. Im going to estimate 1 litre or 1 pint of gasoline or petrol needed per week in winter where its below freezing. A 44 gallon drum would give you about 150 weeks or 3 years if you had a 20l drum of thinner to go with it once opened. Would a 2nd 44 last another 3 yrs? I dont know, but I doubt it, so this solution is probably only good for 5 yrs at the most. If you had huge fields of corn and distilling equipment and expertise you might make enough alcohol to add with your home made vegetable oil and keep running the machine as long as it lasts on that blend. Keep in mind that the noise from the chainsaw will be heard and able to be followed from miles away when there is no other machines running. I would rather consume the alcohol myself anyway.

Electric chainsaw.. this is really the heart of the matter being debated here. Im guessing these are 1000-2000w, I had an AC corded one a long time ago but dont remember the power. Youre not taking that amount of power from lead acid battery or panels very far into the forest, so youre limited to the reach of your cords from the solar system, usually at your house. So realistically, whatever logs you have dumped near enough to the house in advance is all you have. A semi load might last a few years. Somewhere like texas where there are probably at least a hundred clear blue sky days a year, no problem at all if you can get your wood near enough. Canada or Alaska would be a summer only proposition and even then, depending on weather week by week. A Tesla Power Wall (lithium ion house battery with inverter) in a big backpack could be used to cut a decent amount of wood away from home, if you knew how to modify it to match the right volts to your chainsaw, or could just buy the right voltage chainsaw. These are supposed to be good for 10 years, as yet we dont know. Not fast charging or recharging when hot would make it last a lot longer than the power tools and mobile phone batts anyway.

Battery powered... You have 2-3 yrs and theyre shot whether you are using all the time cycling, or not at all, including unopened still in the packet.  This applies to all the battery operated power tools which are a lot more about getting you to replace things and spend money regularly than necessity for most buyers. If you are a tradesman who uses these every day in your work, especially if you go to all different places where power is not available, they make good sense. If you work out of your own garage, for most of the tools its not worth it.

Some things will be done in your workshop like making furniture etc and a lot of other things done elsewhere, like new building. If you can get nicad batts the right volts they can last a lot longer if you havent started using them yet, maybe 10 yrs. I don't think anyone is going to bother trying to do that, since they will last at most half as long on a charge and need to be kept very close to the tool. It would be much easier to work from car and truck batts, at either 12, 18, 24 or even 36v. These like to be kept fully charged and can last 5 yrs like that. If you are using them to power tools, that is cycling them regularly, they will last about 2 yrs. If you can bring the solar panels to the job site and work on sunny days, you can prevent that to some extent. Cost is about 100-150$ for each car batt depending on size or amp hrs.

Deep cycle batts are the opposite, they do not want to be kept fully charged and need to be cycled. They cost a lot more but if the goal is 10 yrs use, are the way to go, whether you are working close to home using AC cord tools, or taking your batt powered DC tools along with the heavy batts to the construction site. This will give you 10 yrs use instead of 2-3, including a batt powered chainsaw, although I doubt those are meant for making a load of firewood anyway. That all depends on your inverter for AC and charge controller also lasting ten yrs after you cant replace them, these things can be stored as spares for an indefinite period if you can afford it though. The skills with electronics to repair them, as well as to recondition batteries would obviously extend this indefinitely.

Whichever way you try and work it, sooner or later it could come down to simple hand tools. So start collecting as many as possible of good quality, as well as the nails, screws, nuts and bolts, blades, sandpaper etc that goes with them.
fuel consumption for firewood with maple as the benchmark is less then one litre per face cord.  I burn 4 now 5 if I did hot water and no backup heat. Electric chainsaw 1100 watts per hour less than 2hrs per face cord.  The electric splitter about the same so say 5kwhr per face cord. I have a one man pull saw. They are pricey but you can still buy them. Good for a lifetime. Hardwork though hence the desire to keep the power equipment going as long as possible. Saw maul and axe probably 8-10 hours per face cord hard labour.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on June 21, 2018, 08:00:17 AM

RE

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F10ovsMSaDDC6gE%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1)

.



We already have slow catabolic collapse.

Yup. Catabolic Collapse is what we have Right Friggin Now. Just look out the window.

Now, me? I keep on hand and cycle through about 150 to 250 liters of gas, depending on rotation. Also about 100liters of deisle.( No use going through all my backup systems and backups to those systems)

There is plenty of examples of modern societies that collapsed. The USSR, Cuba. Venezuela, North Korea ( even Puerto rico) . ETC. In none of them did everything shut down completely and permanently.  There are things that would do that but I am even more prepared for that. LOL, remember, I am the guy with a quality sword for when I have used up the three plus thousand rounds I store.

There is also A LOT of generators out there. Just have to figure out how to get them turning.(which was one of the points of this conversation. Can I get a DC motor to turn my generator) We havent even covered diesel generators or vehicles and all the stuff some of those can run on. Diesle generators are out of my price range though
 
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 21, 2018, 08:27:49 AM
 

Somewhere here in the dim past these is a terrible video I made of my two gennies.

Neither is expensive, but then I have never used either of them and don't know how good they are.


One is a smallish diesel (Yanmar powered) mil-spec unit that puts out 2500 watts. The critical thing though, is that it's DC, not AC. DC generators are way simpler than AC. You can run it through your inverter or run straight DC loads. A small DC generator is also back-up for the solar battery array. Diesel sun for winter storms. Mine is 24V and I have a couple of 24V inverters.

The second genny is my Genie welder. Its a twofer. Welder and genny. I mounted it for belt drive and hooked up a Harbor Freight gas engine.

I don't stockpile fuel, except in my boats. But that amounts to maybe 75 gallons I could get if I need it.

Texas has its own power grid. I expect we'll be the last grid to go.


Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 21, 2018, 08:41:43 AM
There will still be batts around for the rest of your life.  Certainly lasting longer than plug ion power for your corded power tools.
RE

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F10ovsMSaDDC6gE%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1)

Rebuilding lead acid batteries is a dirty dangerous job and requires all kinds of specialized equipment.  Any cottage industry would poison their workers and make shit batteries with no shelf life.  Making long life lead acid batteries requires special considerations and even then if they are not charged within a year they sulfate.  Edison cells are far better for collapse.  Too bad they are not made anymore.  After collapse things will be chaotic and no economy will exist to support cottage industries of any kind.  It will be game over and we will have the die-off.  You know, the one even doomers deny.

Anybody want to pull slow catabolic collapse out of their ass?  It feels so good.  So good to hear you can get someone to take your money preaching it to you.
May as well do both at the same time.  They pull catabolic collapse out of their ass while you pull these out of yours.  Feel twice as good so I'm told.

(https://images.betteridge.com/images/products/thumbs/tahitian-pearl-necklace-diamond-ball-clasp.jpg)

Dark ages with battery fed lighting.  Not going to happen.  When we get our dark ages it will be the real thing.  No compromise.

Only way you are going to get your batteries is if we go into collapse with a socialist government but socialists in America were wiped out 100 years ago. 

Kiss that dream goodbye.  After SHTF it is game over.  That is the hard truth.  Nothing about the life we have now goes forward.  Capitalism was the dinosaur that ruled the earth.  Socialism was the little mammal-like critter that could have survived after a SHTF comet splashes hard rock, but they were wiped out.

(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QM0HMxheR50/UPMaHBB5N9I/AAAAAAAAAOg/cgPbc2TCuuo/s1600/USAdebs1904.jpg)

If you know anyone who is 'into' lead acid batteries you know their garage quickly becomes full of worthless sulfated junk.  That you assumed lead acid batteries could be whipped up like tallow candles at Jamestown shows you have not had your share of dead ass batteries.

(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/28/1d/8d/281d8ddeaac402eeae0c0edbf8d67e8f--bayberry-candles-candle-making.jpg)

One of the plates uses lead oxide.  Very toxic.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/25/Recharged.gif)

http://www.integrachem.com/msds/L285_003.pdf (http://www.integrachem.com/msds/L285_003.pdf)  <== Here is the Lead Oxide Material Safety Data Sheet.

To form the lead oxide atomized lead is sprayed into the air.  Long life batteries also need Antimony and their construction must be carefully managed so a surplus of plate material of the correct ratio prolongs life.

I was thinking last night that we used to have the kind of battery "recycling" centers RE described, and now we call them "environmental clean-up sites".

There is (or was)  one here downtown near the river.  I think they had to remove a whole lot of topsoil. Who knows what really happened to it.

Nevertheless, when the laws aren't there to prevent it, I expect someone will very willingly poison the environment and themselves to "get the lead out".  We don't use film x-rays anymore now that we've gone all digital, but back int the day I used to accumulate big chunks of lead, just from the tiny foil strips in dental films. We had trouble getting someone to take it.

Sulfuric acid isn't easy at all to make, unless you have the starting materials handy. One process uses elctrolysis of water. Starting material is....hydrobromic acid.

Nope. Don't got.

You can oxidize sulfur dioxide...nope.

Or...you could find some copper sulfate...maybe, not sure where, and use electrolysis to convert that.

Lacking, is an easy way to go from elemental sulfur straight to the sulfuric acid, although I'm sure somebody does have a hack to get there..

In any case, I already said sulfur is a good prep, because you need it to make black powder. So buy a couple hundred pounds extra for batteries. You'll be glad you did once you figure out how to turn it into one of the of the above starting materials. You can use your still functional PV's to provide electricity for the conversion, if required. Hopefully.

We already have slow catabolic collapse. But I agree with K-Dog, basically. With a little climate change thrown into the mix, or some other horseman of the apocalypse, things become more chaotic and a temporary or permanent loss of all technology looks pretty likely.

Making hydrobromic acid is EZ.  Mix Bromine with water..  Bromine is a liquid at room temperature, one of only 2 elements that is (Hg Mercury ios the other one).  It's used as a Pool  purifier and is commercially available.  When you buy your Sulfur, stock up on some Bromine also.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 21, 2018, 08:44:38 AM
I feel like the last one who cares.

The Diners are in the same car; you're not alone.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 21, 2018, 08:46:07 AM
There will still be batts around for the rest of your life.  Certainly lasting longer than plug ion power for your corded power tools.
RE

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F10ovsMSaDDC6gE%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1)

Rebuilding lead acid batteries is a dirty dangerous job and requires all kinds of specialized equipment.  Any cottage industry would poison their workers and make shit batteries with no shelf life.  Making long life lead acid batteries requires special considerations and even then if they are not charged within a year they sulfate.  Edison cells are far better for collapse.  Too bad they are not made anymore.  After collapse things will be chaotic and no economy will exist to support cottage industries of any kind.  It will be game over and we will have the die-off.  You know, the one even doomers deny.

Anybody want to pull slow catabolic collapse out of their ass?  It feels so good.  So good to hear you can get someone to take your money preaching it to you.
May as well do both at the same time.  They pull catabolic collapse out of their ass while you pull these out of yours.  Feel twice as good so I'm told.

(https://images.betteridge.com/images/products/thumbs/tahitian-pearl-necklace-diamond-ball-clasp.jpg)

Dark ages with battery fed lighting.  Not going to happen.  When we get our dark ages it will be the real thing.  No compromise.

Only way you are going to get your batteries is if we go into collapse with a socialist government but socialists in America were wiped out 100 years ago. 

Kiss that dream goodbye.  After SHTF it is game over.  That is the hard truth.  Nothing about the life we have now goes forward.  Capitalism was the dinosaur that ruled the earth.  Socialism was the little mammal-like critter that could have survived after a SHTF comet splashes hard rock, but they were wiped out.

(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QM0HMxheR50/UPMaHBB5N9I/AAAAAAAAAOg/cgPbc2TCuuo/s1600/USAdebs1904.jpg)

If you know anyone who is 'into' lead acid batteries you know their garage quickly becomes full of worthless sulfated junk.  That you assumed lead acid batteries could be whipped up like tallow candles at Jamestown shows you have not had your share of dead ass batteries.

(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/28/1d/8d/281d8ddeaac402eeae0c0edbf8d67e8f--bayberry-candles-candle-making.jpg)

One of the plates uses lead oxide.  Very toxic.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/25/Recharged.gif)

http://www.integrachem.com/msds/L285_003.pdf (http://www.integrachem.com/msds/L285_003.pdf)  <== Here is the Lead Oxide Material Safety Data Sheet.

To form the lead oxide atomized lead is sprayed into the air.  Long life batteries also need Antimony and their construction must be carefully managed so a surplus of plate material of the correct ratio prolongs life.

I was thinking last night that we used to have the kind of battery "recycling" centers RE described, and now we call them "environmental clean-up sites".

There is (or was)  one here downtown near the river.  I think they had to remove a whole lot of topsoil. Who knows what really happened to it.

Nevertheless, when the laws aren't there to prevent it, I expect someone will very willingly poison the environment and themselves to "get the lead out".  We don't use film x-rays anymore now that we've gone all digital, but back int the day I used to accumulate big chunks of lead, just from the tiny foil strips in dental films. We had trouble getting someone to take it.

Sulfuric acid isn't easy at all to make, unless you have the starting materials handy. One process uses elctrolysis of water. Starting material is....hydrobromic acid.

Nope. Don't got.

You can oxidize sulfur dioxide...nope.

Or...you could find some copper sulfate...maybe, not sure where, and use electrolysis to convert that.

Lacking, is an easy way to go from elemental sulfur straight to the sulfuric acid, although I'm sure somebody does have a hack to get there..

In any case, I already said sulfur is a good prep, because you need it to make black powder. So buy a couple hundred pounds extra for batteries. You'll be glad you did once you figure out how to turn it into one of the of the above starting materials. You can use your still functional PV's to provide electricity for the conversion, if required. Hopefully.

We already have slow catabolic collapse. But I agree with K-Dog, basically. With a little climate change thrown into the mix, or some other horseman of the apocalypse, things become more chaotic and a temporary or permanent loss of all technology looks pretty likely.

Making hydrobromic acid is EZ.  Mix Bromine with water..  Bromine is a liquid at room temperature, one of only 2 elements that is (Hg Mercury ios the other one).  It's used as a Pool  purifier and is commercially available.  When you buy your Sulfur, stock up on some Bromine also.

RE

Good info. But it ain't cheap. I guess that's why my pool guy uses chlorine. Bromine is $140 for 25 pounds. Still sounds real useful though. Maybe worth it.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 21, 2018, 08:46:59 AM
Remember your first chemistry set?
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 21, 2018, 08:49:32 AM
I keep on hand and cycle through about 150 to 250 liters of gas, depending on rotation.

That won't last as long as a 2 year Batt  once you're not refilling it and cycling it. (hears crickets)

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 21, 2018, 08:51:49 AM
Good info. But it ain't cheap. I guess that's why my pool guy uses chlorine. Bromine is $140 for 25 pounds. Still sounds real useful though. Maybe worth it.

It's expensive but a great alternative to chlorine.  Chlorine gives me hives and makes me itch now.  Started in my late teens.  Bromine doesn't bother me at all.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 21, 2018, 08:53:58 AM
That's IT!!!!

I found my niche for shameless collapse commerce. I need to sell Collapse Chemistry Sets for Doomers. What needs to be in it?

Sulfur. Check.

Bromine. Check.

Chlorine.

Muriatic acid (Swimming pool HCL). Check

KOH (Drano)

KNO3? You can make it from pee, but who wants to do that?

What else can you think of? Maybe some platinum? (Nah, you can get that from catalytic converters.)

Big chemistry sets with 5 gallon buckets. LOL. I like it. A nice real triple beam. (Since drug dealers went digital, there's a surplus of those.)
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 21, 2018, 09:00:41 AM
That's IT!!!!

I found my niche for shameless collapse commerce. I need to sell Collapse Chemistry Sets for Doomers. What needs to be in it?

Sulfur. Check.

Bromine. Check.

Chlorine.

Muriatic acid (Swimming pool HCL). Check

KOH (Drano)

KNO3? You can make it from pee, but who wants to do that?

What else can you think of? Maybe some platinum? (Nah, you can get that from catalytic converters.)

Big chemistry sets with 5 gallon buckets. LOL. I like it. A nice real triple beam. (Since drug dealers went digital, there's a surplus of those.)

Ammonium Nitrate.  Don't forget the bombs and booby traps you need to make.  KMnO4 (Pottasium Permanganate) also important, great oxidizing agent.  Then the organic solvents.   Acetone, Benzene, Toluene to start.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: K-Dog on June 21, 2018, 09:00:58 AM

RE

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F10ovsMSaDDC6gE%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1)

.



We already have slow catabolic collapse.

Yup. Catabolic Collapse is what we have Right Friggin Now. Just look out the window.

Now, me? I keep on hand and cycle through about 150 to 250 liters of gas, depending on rotation. Also about 100liters of deisle.( No use going through all my backup systems and backups to those systems)

There is plenty of examples of modern societies that collapsed. The USSR, Cuba. Venezuela, North Korea ( even Puerto rico) . ETC. In none of them did everything shut down completely and permanently.  There are things that would do that but I am even more prepared for that. LOL, remember, I am the guy with a quality sword for when I have used up the three plus thousand rounds I store.

There is also A LOT of generators out there. Just have to figure out how to get them turning.(which was one of the points of this conversation. Can I get a DC motor to turn my generator) We havent even covered diesel generators or vehicles and all the stuff some of those can run on. Diesle generators are out of my price range though

You are a total exception.  Not the only one but you have independence.  Personally Im surrounded by dumfucks.  I will be an early casualty.  No more K-Dog on SHTF.  Is it because of choices I have made or circumstances.  It is both.

The fact is I am writing in this thread with a perspective that the human condition of denial is putting rose colored glasses on everybody.  It is going to be harder than any of us think.  My hope is it all lasts a few more years.  It is not that l am doing nothing in Seattle.  My farm here grows zeros.  Enough to get property in a reasonable period of time.  The homeless I meet cant imagine someone having it so good and those who have it already dont know how good they have it.

When the dark comes it will be the blackest night some people have ever seen.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 21, 2018, 09:01:22 AM
Quote
RE: If you can't power them yourself, get out your hand axe.

3 cheers for the good old hand axe. 
3 cheers for the bow saw and a packet of spare blades.
3 cheers for the log splitter and sledge hammer.
No need to worry about power. No getting frustrated at rechargable batteries.  No noise interfering with the sweet sounds of the birds singing.  Ugh, I wouldn't want to do it myself, that's not civilised is it? - what the entire world used prior to 1850.

Fine if you're 25 and hale and hearty. Otherwise, the rain forest makes real good sense, as compared to northern Canada or Alaska, as a place to live. It's easier to chop pythons than trees.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: K-Dog on June 21, 2018, 09:04:39 AM
That's IT!!!!

I found my niche for shameless collapse commerce. I need to sell Collapse Chemistry Sets for Doomers. What needs to be in it?

Sulfur. Check.

Bromine. Check.

Chlorine.

Muriatic acid (Swimming pool HCL). Check

KOH (Drano)

KNO3? You can make it from pee, but who wants to do that?

What else can you think of? Maybe some platinum? (Nah, you can get that from catalytic converters.)

Big chemistry sets with 5 gallon buckets. LOL. I like it. A nice real triple beam. (Since drug dealers went digital, there's a surplus of those.)

Ammonium Nitrate.  Don't forget the bombs and booby traps you need to make.  KMnO4 (Pottasium Permanganate) also important, great oxidizing agent.  Then the organic solvents.   Acetone, Benzene, Toluene to start.

RE

How much for a full shipping container?  I want a ten year supply.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 21, 2018, 09:17:46 AM

RE

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F10ovsMSaDDC6gE%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1)

.



We already have slow catabolic collapse.

Yup. Catabolic Collapse is what we have Right Friggin Now. Just look out the window.

Now, me? I keep on hand and cycle through about 150 to 250 liters of gas, depending on rotation. Also about 100liters of deisle.( No use going through all my backup systems and backups to those systems)

There is plenty of examples of modern societies that collapsed. The USSR, Cuba. Venezuela, North Korea ( even Puerto rico) . ETC. In none of them did everything shut down completely and permanently.  There are things that would do that but I am even more prepared for that. LOL, remember, I am the guy with a quality sword for when I have used up the three plus thousand rounds I store.

There is also A LOT of generators out there. Just have to figure out how to get them turning.(which was one of the points of this conversation. Can I get a DC motor to turn my generator) We havent even covered diesel generators or vehicles and all the stuff some of those can run on. Diesle generators are out of my price range though

You are a total exception.  Not the only one but you have independence.  Personally Im surrounded by dumfucks.  I will be an early casualty.  No more K-Dog on SHTF.  Is it because of choices I have made or circumstances.  It is both.

The fact is I am writing in this thread with a perspective that the human condition of denial is putting rose colored glasses on everybody.  It is going to be harder than any of us think.  My hope is it all lasts a few more years.  It is not that l am doing nothing in Seattle.  My farm here grows zeros.  Enough to get property in a reasonable period of time.  The homeless I meet cant imagine someone having it so good and those who have it already dont know how good they have it.

When the dark comes it will be the blackest night some people have ever seen.

I find myself feeling like K-dog feels, but still thinking a C5 approach to collapse is pretty sensible. You do what you can, with whatever you can get, wherever you are, when TSHTF.

It won't be pretty, but maybe it won't be impossible...for a while at least. Perseverance and versatility will be rewarded, within limits.

Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 21, 2018, 09:26:39 AM
That's IT!!!!

I found my niche for shameless collapse commerce. I need to sell Collapse Chemistry Sets for Doomers. What needs to be in it?

Sulfur. Check.

Bromine. Check.

Chlorine.

Muriatic acid (Swimming pool HCL). Check

KOH (Drano)

KNO3? You can make it from pee, but who wants to do that?

What else can you think of? Maybe some platinum? (Nah, you can get that from catalytic converters.)

Big chemistry sets with 5 gallon buckets. LOL. I like it. A nice real triple beam. (Since drug dealers went digital, there's a surplus of those.)

Ammonium Nitrate.  Don't forget the bombs and booby traps you need to make.  KMnO4 (Pottasium Permanganate) also important, great oxidizing agent.  Then the organic solvents.   Acetone, Benzene, Toluene to start.

RE

How much for a full shipping container?  I want a ten year supply.

Would that be with or without a used freshman chemistry textbook?

There actually should be a collapse chemistry cookbook. Easy chemistry hacks that might save your life. Hard copy only. No pdf files.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: K-Dog on June 21, 2018, 09:34:46 AM
Chemistry is not something I know a lot about.  So yes.  My folly with technology expresses in other ways.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 21, 2018, 09:49:46 AM
I was a freshman chemistry TA. I can do all the calculations for a number of useless experiments.

If I can access the files in my jellyware.

But there is just a shred of sense in this idea of stockpiling a few chemicals, or at least knowing what they're good for.

I expect pool chemicals will go on sale when TSHTF. Half price bromine

I'm going to buy bromine when RE buys his $700 gold. The timing should be reasonable.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 21, 2018, 09:57:36 AM
Good info. But it ain't cheap. I guess that's why my pool guy uses chlorine. Bromine is $140 for 25 pounds. Still sounds real useful though. Maybe worth it.

It's expensive but a great alternative to chlorine.  Chlorine gives me hives and makes me itch now.  Started in my late teens.  Bromine doesn't bother me at all.

RE

My dog is pretty itchy, and he swims in the pool a whole lot more than I do. I wonder if switching to bromine would help his skin?

A pool is the stupidest expense in the world, but it is a big cistern, in a pinch. Not bad to have where I live, in a post-BAU world.

Where I used to live in that early 20th century cottage community north of SA, all the old houses had pools, because wells were too difficult to dig and too expensive to drill. It will be that way again in these parts pretty soon. Even if you have a well, pumping the water from 400 ft down is a tough hack.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on June 21, 2018, 09:59:02 AM

RE

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F10ovsMSaDDC6gE%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1)

.



We already have slow catabolic collapse.

Yup. Catabolic Collapse is what we have Right Friggin Now. Just look out the window.

Now, me? I keep on hand and cycle through about 150 to 250 liters of gas, depending on rotation. Also about 100liters of deisle.( No use going through all my backup systems and backups to those systems)

There is plenty of examples of modern societies that collapsed. The USSR, Cuba. Venezuela, North Korea ( even Puerto rico) . ETC. In none of them did everything shut down completely and permanently.  There are things that would do that but I am even more prepared for that. LOL, remember, I am the guy with a quality sword for when I have used up the three plus thousand rounds I store.

There is also A LOT of generators out there. Just have to figure out how to get them turning.(which was one of the points of this conversation. Can I get a DC motor to turn my generator) We havent even covered diesel generators or vehicles and all the stuff some of those can run on. Diesle generators are out of my price range though
back in the pre inverter dark ages electrodyne used to make a dc motor coupled to and ac power head. it was horribly inefficient but it produced useable ac power from batteries. Along came trace inverters and Heart and wiped them off the board. So yes it is possible have a dc motor coupled to an ac power head and turning at precisely the right rpm usually 3500 rpm to generate the 120 volts 60 hz you need. I think spare inverters are easier to come by then the dc motor for the conversion. Or power the genny with chargas... way easier and cleaner then woodgas. I have 50 hours on chargas on my tractor never stuck a valve or had to clean anything in the motor. Done right its cleaner then gasoline.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 21, 2018, 10:00:56 AM
More to add to your chemistry set:

Ethylene Glycol (Anti-freeze)
Glycerol (good for making Nitroglycerine and smokeless powder)
Phosphorus (the plants need that)
Magnesium

Already put together:

Dynamite.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 21, 2018, 10:46:12 AM
Ammonium nitrate. Check.

Glycerol. Check.

Dynamite. Check.

Terrorist. Check.

Jail. Check.

No your honor. I was really just building my Collapse Chemistry Set. Really.

Your WHAT?

Right.

The suspect to is be remanded to Guantanamo until he dies of torture or boredom. Waterboard him and we'll get the real story. Rights? He don't got no stinkin' rights.

Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 21, 2018, 10:48:22 AM
.
And don't forget to seize all his property. He's guilty of somethin', I'm pretty sure. If he ain't, let him fight it in civil court.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on June 21, 2018, 11:33:42 AM
Yup. That was what I was thinking but didnt want to say anything :icon_scratch: :exp-angel:

I did have an insight though. I take it most of us have solar. Even a primitive rock wielder like myself could probably pull off a hydrogen genorator. Let the solar percolate into some water. A simple tank like a hot water tank with the bottom cut off. Float it in a barrel. Run a hose directly to the genni air intake and it should run...I think?
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on June 21, 2018, 12:04:41 PM
Yup. That was what I was thinking but didnt want to say anything :icon_scratch: :exp-angel:

I did have an insight though. I take it most of us have solar. Even a primitive rock wielder like myself could probably pull off a hydrogen genorator. Let the solar percolate into some water. A simple tank like a hot water tank with the bottom cut off. Float it in a barrel. Run a hose directly to the genni air intake and it should run...I think?
yes it will run. When I drip water into my charcoal gasifier hydrogen comes out as well about 12-18 percent nobody really tested it. you can run straight hydrogen but energy in versus energy out is about 2 or more to 1 that is before the energy losses in the genny which runs at about 30 percent efficient. so put in 2 kw get 1 kw of hydrogen out get 300 watts of electricity out the other side... Anyone reading please correct my math but it is close. That's me David Downer!
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: K-Dog on June 21, 2018, 02:11:21 PM
.
And don't forget to seize all his property. He's guilty of somethin', I'm pretty sure. If he ain't, let him fight it in civil court.

And you have probably touched a woman inappropriately by accident a few times.

Me too.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 21, 2018, 02:17:01 PM
Never. Not me.

I was once involved in a very peripheral way in a sex-abuse case. I was cleared of all wrongdoing, but it took years. I'll tell you about that one some time. It's an interesting story, and I'm lucky. It could have gone very differently.

Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Palloy2 on June 21, 2018, 02:26:19 PM
For chemistry, concentrated (10  N) Nitric Acid.  If you stick to ionic salts (metallic chlorides/nitrates/sulphates) you can work out if it will react with the Standard Electromotive Series table. With the Standard Enthalpy (heat of formation) table you can work out how much energy is needed/produced. Any university level chemistry text book will have it.

Water is not 100% H2O, only distilled water is, (before you take the cap off).

You need glassware, well-rinsed three times with distilled water.  Even then things don't always react cleanly and 100%.  With organic compounds, it NEVER reacts to 100% pure products.

And a list of banned chemicals (like ANHYDROUS Ammonium nitrate) to keep a low profile.

For chopping, visit your local show and ask to look at the competitve lumberjack's axes to see what a clean, smooth sharp axe looks like.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 21, 2018, 03:01:46 PM
UT and Texas State are like Hertz and Avis. Remember the old Avis commercial "If you're number two you try harder." ?

That's Texas State. Their new radio ads I hear on public radio tout "undergraduate and graduate research" which makes me giggle. It's what we used to call a teacher's college.

Once, I lucked out and made an A in Organic Chemistry (1st half) and was deemed fit to do "undergraduate research" at my alma mater. (I went to another teacher's college, but the chemistry faculty weren't at all bad.)

I spent a whole year working completely alone trying to synthesize a crown ether (18-crown-6). I never once got anything but starting materials back. I did get pretty good at column chromatography.

All the literature was in German on crown ethers at that time, and I couldn't read German. I sorta kinda could follow the articles okay. But I never knew for sure I was getting it. No google translate in those days.

I think my prof thought the Germans who published the article claiming they were successful were lying, which is why he had me doing it. I still don't know exactly why my efforts were  a 100% failure. I got 6 or 8 hours credit  with A's anyway.

Undergraduate research. (giggle.)
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on June 21, 2018, 05:18:23 PM
Ran across this. I like this guy's collapse chemistry rant. (Yes, collapse aware chemists are a thing, apparently.)

http://www.youtube.com/v/-K-GkuNWKwY&fs=1
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 21, 2018, 05:25:54 PM
Ran across this. I like this guy's collapse chemistry rant. (Yes, collapse aware chemists are a thing, apparently.)

http://www.youtube.com/v/-K-GkuNWKwY&fs=1

This thread should definitely get us on the DHS Radar now.  ::)

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: K-Dog on June 21, 2018, 05:34:04 PM
Never. Not me.

I was once involved in a very peripheral way in a sex-abuse case. I was cleared of all wrongdoing, but it took years. I'll tell you about that one some time. It's an interesting story, and I'm lucky. It could have gone very differently.

I was making a joke.  Actually never for ME TOO!
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: K-Dog on June 21, 2018, 05:36:48 PM
Ran across this. I like this guy's collapse chemistry rant. (Yes, collapse aware chemists are a thing, apparently.)

http://www.youtube.com/v/-K-GkuNWKwY&fs=1

This thread should definitely get us on the DHS Radar now.  ::)

RE

You were on their radar before I even go here and you can bet some of our past trolls have worked for them.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on June 21, 2018, 06:12:49 PM
Ran across this. I like this guy's collapse chemistry rant. (Yes, collapse aware chemists are a thing, apparently.)

http://www.youtube.com/v/-K-GkuNWKwY&fs=1
I think that guy has just about enough chemicals... Here is a video about making nitric acid using an electric arc neutralized with wood ash you have your perfect NPK fertilizer. Sorry for the aside I have a very unusual bucket list and this is one of the items...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep23ds4cZs4&t=106s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep23ds4cZs4&t=106s)
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Palloy2 on June 21, 2018, 06:20:44 PM
I would tend to believe a chemist more if he wasn't naked, and in bed, half asleep, with Nitric Acid fumes being generated within arm's reach.  Nitric Acid is REALLY NASTY stuff.  It eats flesh, and bones, and clothes and boots.

I also tend not to believe the urine-to-Potassium-nitrate too much either.  The YT video of it, ending up with long thin crystals is hopelessly contaminated with other stuff.  There are loads of other things in urine as well as urea, and loads of other things in "acetic acid" if its made by fermentation. 

If you are going to make Nitroglycerine, purity of the reactants is important.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Palloy2 on June 21, 2018, 06:58:44 PM
Getting back to cutting down a tree with only an axe, and only a stone one at that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x5ZLrjvP6s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x5ZLrjvP6s)
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: K-Dog on June 21, 2018, 08:18:41 PM
Getting back to cutting down a tree with only an axe, and only a stone one at that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x5ZLrjvP6s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x5ZLrjvP6s)

He spent all day getting that tree.  He must have wanted it bad.  Primitive napalm with that fish oil and resin.  Too bad he dripped half of it down the outside of the tree.  I think Eddies toolkit should have something that will work better.  I think this was the first time he did it.  He came to the country to visit an uncle and learned the trick.  He actually is into real estate in the city and had just got a new camera.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: K-Dog on June 21, 2018, 08:29:40 PM
I would tend to believe a chemist more if he wasn't naked, and in bed, half asleep, with Nitric Acid fumes being generated within arm's reach.  Nitric Acid is REALLY NASTY stuff.  It eats flesh, and bones, and clothes and boots.

I also tend not to believe the urine-to-Potassium-nitrate too much either.  The YT video of it, ending up with long thin crystals is hopelessly contaminated with other stuff.  There are loads of other things in urine as well as urea, and loads of other things in "acetic acid" if its made by fermentation. 

If you are going to make Nitroglycerine, purity of the reactants is important.

I realized he was in bed naked too a couple of minutes in.  Didn't like it either but he could be a paralyzed or something and gets a pass.  Or he is just strange.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: jdwheeler42 on June 22, 2018, 05:08:37 PM
Sulfuric acid isn't easy at all to make, unless you have the starting materials handy. One process uses elctrolysis of water. Starting material is....hydrobromic acid.

Nope. Don't got.

You can oxidize sulfur dioxide...nope.

Or...you could find some copper sulfate...maybe, not sure where, and use electrolysis to convert that.

Lacking, is an easy way to go from elemental sulfur straight to the sulfuric acid, although I'm sure somebody does have a hack to get there..
Easy peasy pudding and pie.... just take fool's gold and water... aka "acid mine drainage".

That is, if you happen to live right near some abandoned coal mines....
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: jdwheeler42 on June 22, 2018, 06:42:55 PM
Maybe take chainsaw chains and put a handle on each end for 2 men to work. At about 35$ each and if sharpened properly lasting 3 yrs, youre looking at 100$ a decade, post collapse.  Obviously needs experimentation prior to forking out.
They have one-man hand chain saws already.  Once you use one of those, you'll realize that it is the saw chain that is the real technology, all the rest is just a fancy crank.
http://www.youtube.com/v/RaGLFR9VJ0M
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on June 22, 2018, 07:16:23 PM
Maybe take chainsaw chains and put a handle on each end for 2 men to work. At about 35$ each and if sharpened properly lasting 3 yrs, youre looking at 100$ a decade, post collapse.  Obviously needs experimentation prior to forking out.
They have one-man hand chain saws already.  Once you use one of those, you'll realize that it is the saw chain that is the real technology, all the rest is just a fancy crank.
http://www.youtube.com/v/RaGLFR9VJ0M

I gotta get one of those!

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on August 06, 2018, 06:05:26 PM
The heat has forced me inside for much of the last month, making a mockery of me trying to detach from the internet.

I'm getting shit done... but not what people expect of me or I expect of myself. Its the heat. The heat. The heat..... The heat.

Fuck it. I have to post about what has been on my mind... if only to get it out of my head and move on.

Sooooo. I did another short post at Dark Green Mountain. In it I quoted something Surly had pointed out for posterity.

Here is the latest post. Enjoy...or fire away. Whatever.

https://darkgreenmountainsurvivalresearchcentre.wordpress.com/2018/08/06/c5-says-its-not-the-heat-its-the-stupidity/
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: jdwheeler42 on August 06, 2018, 06:44:20 PM
The heat has forced me inside for much of the last month, making a mockery of me trying to detach from the internet.

I'm getting shit done... but not what people expect of me or I expect of myself. Its the heat. The heat. The heat..... The heat.

Fuck it. I have to post about what has been on my mind... if only to get it out of my head and move on.

Sooooo. I did another short post at Dark Green Mountain. In it I quoted something Surly had pointed out for posterity.

Here is the latest post. Enjoy...or fire away. Whatever.

https://darkgreenmountainsurvivalresearchcentre.wordpress.com/2018/08/06/c5-says-its-not-the-heat-its-the-stupidity/
(https://i.imgflip.com/19vvof.jpg) (https://imgflip.com/i/19vvof)
via Imgflip Meme Generator (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)
And to be crystal clear, C5, you are doing EXACTLY the right sort of nothing....
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on August 11, 2018, 01:44:14 PM
The latest experiment at Dark Green Mountain Survival Research Centre started today. I used the meager "Tips" from my blog page to purchase a 2stroke bike motor. The build was a bit more challenging than expected... but why whine. 

Today was the shake out ride. 10 km into town for beer and another 10 back, slightly uphill.

First thoughts,... Its actually a bit too fast. I bet you weren't expecting that. Its a gearing issue. Its torc range wants to run just slightly faster than top gear. That makes it a bit of a problem for getting up steep hills. You can get up those steep hills, no problem, with pedaling assist, but only if you stay in that speed power range.

If you are on a hill and have to come to a stop you are sort of fucked. you would have to go back down the hill and start again at spead. (its a bit of a problem for us as you have to slow down at our drive way and go up the hill with no speed behind it. Still worked though with pedal assist)

That speed range is a bit of a problem with bumpy gravel roads or our grossly unkept pavement. I see wipe outs in our future. So, there is some danger involved until we get used to the system. Breaks, clutch and gearing take extra thought. Not as easy as a motorcycle.

Would work way better on upkept urban pavement..

And it is loud. Not harley loud but a sort of clanky loud that makes you think something is rattling off. For longer rides, it is going to require ear plugs to take that tinny rattle out.

That complaining said, I am very impressed. It does the job. This is about to become a commuter vehicle. Its the first real test of tests for us. MrsC5 will take over soon and I hope she doesnt break anything or break down. She took a job 20minuites driving time away. We are hoping it will be an hour- hour 15 (most of it on the canada trail. Gravel but no traffic.) We have to test its reliability (on a job she doesnt mind losing for being late)

This week, I will do the run to her place of work to see if its gas range gets here to and from on a single tank of 2 stroke mixed gas.

FYI. The upgrade was done with less than 300 canadian dollars with a few "Upgraded" parts in that cost, as opposed to 3 thousand for electric. The carbon saving is in not paying for it by carbon intensive work. Not perfect but lets roll with it an see. Carbon savings in not paying for insurance, inspections, licensing or costly car repairs. Extra carbon spewing work hours.

If the oil stops for good, take off the engine. You still have a bike. That is the theory I am working with at the moment. I will need more time for a hands on, experienced opinion 
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on August 24, 2018, 09:12:00 PM
I've been meaning to thank you. I had watched Victorian farm, edwardian farm, and my personal favourite wartime farm but somehow managed to miss tales from the green valley. Nice to see the gang looking so fresh; less produced more raw.
Cheers David
http://www.youtube.com/v/iSpqpwJ__Ek?ecver=1
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: azozeo on August 25, 2018, 10:13:15 AM
The latest experiment at Dark Green Mountain Survival Research Centre started today. I used the meager "Tips" from my blog page to purchase a 2stroke bike motor. The build was a bit more challenging than expected... but why whine. 

Today was the shake out ride. 10 km into town for beer and another 10 back, slightly uphill.

First thoughts,... Its actually a bit too fast. I bet you weren't expecting that. Its a gearing issue. Its torc range wants to run just slightly faster than top gear. That makes it a bit of a problem for getting up steep hills. You can get up those steep hills, no problem, with pedaling assist, but only if you stay in that speed power range.

If you are on a hill and have to come to a stop you are sort of fucked. you would have to go back down the hill and start again at spead. (its a bit of a problem for us as you have to slow down at our drive way and go up the hill with no speed behind it. Still worked though with pedal assist)

That speed range is a bit of a problem with bumpy gravel roads or our grossly unkept pavement. I see wipe outs in our future. So, there is some danger involved until we get used to the system. Breaks, clutch and gearing take extra thought. Not as easy as a motorcycle.

Would work way better on upkept urban pavement..

And it is loud. Not harley loud but a sort of clanky loud that makes you think something is rattling off. For longer rides, it is going to require ear plugs to take that tinny rattle out.

That complaining said, I am very impressed. It does the job. This is about to become a commuter vehicle. Its the first real test of tests for us. MrsC5 will take over soon and I hope she doesnt break anything or break down. She took a job 20minuites driving time away. We are hoping it will be an hour- hour 15 (most of it on the canada trail. Gravel but no traffic.) We have to test its reliability (on a job she doesnt mind losing for being late)

This week, I will do the run to her place of work to see if its gas range gets here to and from on a single tank of 2 stroke mixed gas.

FYI. The upgrade was done with less than 300 canadian dollars with a few "Upgraded" parts in that cost, as opposed to 3 thousand for electric. The carbon saving is in not paying for it by carbon intensive work. Not perfect but lets roll with it an see. Carbon savings in not paying for insurance, inspections, licensing or costly car repairs. Extra carbon spewing work hours.

If the oil stops for good, take off the engine. You still have a bike. That is the theory I am working with at the moment. I will need more time for a hands on, experienced opinion

I created a 2 stroke pedal bike a few years back.
At the time I rode it about 4 miles to & from work.
Over hill & dale. Wore out that Chinese metallurgy in no time. Rings lost compression from the grinding the hills.
And running the little P.O.S. in 90+ degree weather wasn't helping matters.
The heat will do in all small motor/engine HMD's in short work.
With the UVC in the uptick phase there won't be much use for any type of mechanical device unless it's mule powered.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on August 25, 2018, 10:26:09 AM
There's a good reason Peru and most of Asia runs on  4 stroke 125CC Honda knock-offs. It's the smallest gas engine that has the power and the longevity to be practical.

This is the best deal on the planet.

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/wmMAAOSwgmJXyWzR/s-l640.jpg)

At $220 complete with wet plate clutch and 4 speed manual tranny, it's the closest thing to perfect I can think of, next to Zig-Zag slowburners.

Besides, you meet the nicest people on a Honda.

http://www.youtube.com/v/ck9wBHW2160&fs=1

That one brings back some memories for yours truly.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: azozeo on August 25, 2018, 10:46:00 AM
There's a good reason Peru and most of Asia runs on  4 stroke 125CC Honda knock-offs. It's the smallest gas engine that has the power and the longevity to be practical.

This is the best deal on the planet.

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/wmMAAOSwgmJXyWzR/s-l640.jpg)

At $220 complete with wet plate clutch and 4 speed manual tranny, it's the closest thing to perfect I can think of, next to Zig-Zag slowburners.

Besides, you meet the nicest people on a Honda.

http://www.youtube.com/v/ck9wBHW2160&fs=1

That one brings back some memories for yours truly.


Looks like it should mount up to a pedal bike fairly easy.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on August 25, 2018, 10:59:56 AM
That's a lot of ponies for a bicycle. It would fly. Most people lack the skill and judgment required to pilot such a device these days.

http://www.youtube.com/v/bKHz7wOjb9w&fs=1

I feel the need for speed...LOL.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: azozeo on August 25, 2018, 11:35:51 AM
That's a lot of ponies for a bicycle. It would fly. Most people lack the skill and judgment required to pilot such a device these days.

http://www.youtube.com/v/bKHz7wOjb9w&fs=1

I feel the need for speed...LOL.

I'd be checking the welding on that HMD after each run. HO-LEE chitttt  :evil4:
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on August 25, 2018, 11:42:12 AM
I'd like to find a good 4WD Ewz with dual 5000W electric motors.  Closest I found was a Brit manufactured one for a cool $12K, too much money.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: azozeo on August 25, 2018, 11:57:21 AM
I'd like to find a good 4WD Ewz with dual 5000W electric motors.  Closest I found was a Brit manufactured one for a cool $12K, too much money.

RE


I wonder if old man Porsche's 1901 Quattro electric auto blueprints are available for review.
With some mods I'll bet that would make a nice cripple cart.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on August 25, 2018, 01:23:44 PM
There's a good reason Peru and most of Asia runs on  4 stroke 125CC Honda knock-offs. It's the smallest gas engine that has the power and the longevity to be practical.

This is the best deal on the planet.

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/wmMAAOSwgmJXyWzR/s-l640.jpg)

At $220 complete with wet plate clutch and 4 speed manual tranny, it's the closest thing to perfect I can think of, next to Zig-Zag slowburners.

Besides, you meet the nicest people on a Honda.

http://www.youtube.com/v/ck9wBHW2160&fs=1

That one brings back some memories for yours truly.
Nice! at 125 cc that is big enough to gasify and still end up with 75cc of useable power... Not on the project list yet but certainly interesting.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Surly1 on August 25, 2018, 04:38:13 PM
That's a lot of ponies for a bicycle. It would fly. Most people lack the skill and judgment required to pilot such a device these days.

http://www.youtube.com/v/bKHz7wOjb9w&fs=1

I feel the need for speed...LOL.

I'd be checking the welding on that HMD after each run. HO-LEE chitttt  :evil4:

Wondering how he survived that flat.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on August 29, 2018, 07:13:36 PM
Here is my latest article. There are photos of the bike build and Surly was asking my thoughts on our hemp experiment. That is in there too.

https://darkgreenmountainsurvivalresearchcentre.wordpress.com/2018/08/26/the-doom-loop-with-c5/

Today, in my Que of chores, I lifted a shipping container. I feel pretty good about being able to say that. BTW, two ton bottle jacks are very handy for doing the impossible. I kick myself, I let so many of them pass at garage sales. Like I will ever need one ::)
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on August 30, 2018, 05:16:49 AM
Nice build. Let us know what the experiment yields in terms of utility and durability.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on October 18, 2018, 04:21:20 PM
The conversation over at Permies has continued quite well, just in case you moved on. Its worth you sticking your head in again.
https://permies.com/t/94146/Apocalyptic-Survival-Advice#772086
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on October 18, 2018, 07:25:36 PM
Nothing to add to the conversation. Preppers and pacifists both annoyed someone thinks they have to rethink things... Some nuggets of insight.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on October 18, 2018, 07:36:17 PM
I got my PDC several years back, and I value the principles of permaculture. I have a design for my own land. I haven't done nearly as much as I might have, but it's considerably more than nothing. 

I'm not in a movement. I would never join any movement that would have me for a member.

Just living life. Life is a continual process of adapting.


Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on October 18, 2018, 10:22:43 PM
Don't be jealous guys. Permies was backing my play long before I got here. (well, maybe only a quarter of their mods)I am all about connecting people. That is how we survive. I have to be very polite there.(they censured me once in that series and they are already used to me being the guy that breaks all the rules but puts up with it because I perform useful thoughts. I have to be mildly thoughtful there.  You are the folks I drink with.

By the way, David, excellent article. I will try to spread it. I have been reluctant to say... We have an old Massey... Yah, that one. The exact one. It runs but it "Clanks!" when it pulls and throws itself  out of gear. We spent too much already.I hold it for the exact reason you know it can be turned into. I am too mechanically uninclined...
but I know the bar of gold I am holding. 
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on October 19, 2018, 05:35:16 AM
Don't be jealous guys. Permies was backing my play long before I got here. (well, maybe only a quarter of their mods)I am all about connecting people. That is how we survive. I have to be very polite there.(they censured me once in that series and they are already used to me being the guy that breaks all the rules but puts up with it because I perform useful thoughts. I have to be mildly thoughtful there.  You are the folks I drink with.

By the way, David, excellent article. I will try to spread it. I have been reluctant to say... We have an old Massey... Yah, that one. The exact one. It runs but it "Clanks!" when it pulls and throws itself  out of gear. We spent too much already.I hold it for the exact reason you know it can be turned into. I am too mechanically uninclined...
but I know the bar of gold I am holding.
hmm sounds like a worn out clutch assembly. Less then 200 in parts but a really long day of work. Basically you have to split the tractor behind the engine. Anyway about it it's a pain in the ass. Still way easier then feeding and bringing water to a horse all winter... If you are not mechanically inclined follow the auction and estate sales. Lots of old farmer dudes restored tractors for fun. Lots of them coming up as that generation dies out. They did crazy levels of work on them and it's not reflected in the price...
I did not mean to come off harsh on permies. I contribute a bit on the solar board and some on woodstoves. I'm always guarded there though. Driveonwood is also very tight moderation wise. Chris runs a  gasification focused forum and insists on open names and topic related posting. I like that model a great deal but it does tend to be more American and right then other sites I like.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on October 19, 2018, 10:26:01 AM
Don't be jealous guys. Permies was backing my play long before I got here. (well, maybe only a quarter of their mods)I am all about connecting people. That is how we survive. I have to be very polite there.(they censured me once in that series and they are already used to me being the guy that breaks all the rules but puts up with it because I perform useful thoughts. I have to be mildly thoughtful there.  You are the folks I drink with.

By the way, David, excellent article. I will try to spread it. I have been reluctant to say... We have an old Massey... Yah, that one. The exact one. It runs but it "Clanks!" when it pulls and throws itself  out of gear. We spent too much already.I hold it for the exact reason you know it can be turned into. I am too mechanically uninclined...
but I know the bar of gold I am holding.

Not jealous. I am your biggest fan.

My issue is not with permaculture, or with permies, really. I run into the same issues with doomers of all stripes. And I see the usual bias in the thread over there that you linked to.....that is the idea that anyone who recognizes the unsustainable nature of BAU is somehow obligated to change it, or drop out of it, and stop supporting it.

I see a lot of people who are very judge-y about that...but if you happen to examine their own personal narrative, very, very few of those people ARE NOT hooked up to BAU in some way. But that doesn't stop them from pointing fingers. Everybody needs somebody to look down on.

Like RE looks down on me for making investments.

I'll pick on RE because we're friends, and we fight all the time anyway, and we've gotten past all the real hard feelings. The truth is that RE HAS investments. Maybe he isn't as involved in chasing money as I am, but he is very much a prisoner of BAU...especially since he became disabled. But he rides my ass, calls me rich because I make a good living, and thinks I'm greedy because I doggedly pursue my investment strategy in the face of collapse. And stupid, because I don't quit working and enjoy what's left of the planet while I still can.

Young permies think people like me are either clueless or heartless, or greedy.....but let's see how they feel when they're in their 60's and looking at how they're going to pay for their groceries and rent when they can't work anymore. 

You and your partner worked in some version of BAU and saved the bucks to do what you're doing. Most permies work some kind of job. I (and a couple of other people I know) used to catch flack from a permie guy I knew who was active on the local Transition network here. You could almost hear him spit when he called us "survivalists" which he definitely used as a pejorative term. I was naive back then.

Turned out he was a retired guy who had worked his whole career at the local quasi-governmental power utility. People like that...and academics, college professors, various people who have a lot of education but very little exposure to the school of hard knocks....they are very eager to tell people like me how wrong I am to invest in real estate and stocks and cryptos....but they mostly ALL have a 401K that somebody else funds and manages, or a government pension....petty bureaucrats have that same mindset.


Young people are just heart-oriented instead of head-oriented. And it's so easy to point the finger, especially when you have nothing to lose, and you're angry that some boomer stole your future. I get that.... And many of them think they can make big changes that will save the world, or that we should try, even if that looks like it might not work.

I'm way past worrying what other people think of my strategies. Call me a prepper. Call me a survivalist. Call me an adapter (not a bad term, I get where you're coming from). I don't give a flying shit.

Collapse is inevitable, but like K-Dog said, it's ongoing and uneven. Climate change is pretty much guaranteed to kill off a lot of people. There are too many people anyway, and I don't care about saving them all. I think about the next generation in my own family as much as I can. And about my partner, who stands to outlive me by decades.

I have nothing to prove to anyone, and I know as much about what's happening in this current reality as anyone else does. So I do what seems right for me, and just avoid talking to people who have some unrealistic and heroic, altruistic, "save the animals, save the planet,  create a sustainable world" POV.

In my view, even the best permaculturists are not as well prepped as good farmers who have land and understand growing food.

And money is a valuable tool.

I have five tractors. One that is new and has a "mortgage", but it's half paid now, time goes by fast at my age. It will farm like a mofo until the diesel runs out. Two need a little work but are well worth fixing (until the diesel runs out). The fourth is a real backhoe, which is super valuable (until the diesel runs out). The fifth is a good parts tractor for the backhoe. It's old.

My father tried to teach me how to plow behind a mule. I'm not good at it, but unlike most people, I HAVE actually done it. I could do it. I know permies hate plows. Gimme a plow when TSHTF. Single row garden implements. That all I need. I have a shit-ton of seeds and three months after the apocalypse, I'll be eating from a huge garden. In the meantime, I also practice the raised bed tech that everybody uses now.

I have  a huge hoophouse greenhouse and the basics to do aquaculture. I can make electricity for several years if the grid goes dark. I still have a long list of stuff I'd love to acquire, stuff that might come in real handy. I check more stuff off on that list every year.

There isn't much useful knowledge I'm likely to need when TSHTF that I haven't already accumulated, not on my laptop, but in my own personal neural tissues. I'm about as ready as i can be. I like the money I still make taking care of patients, and that's a skill I want to maintain anyway, so dropping out at this point....is pointless.

You're never ready enough or smart enough, or lucky enough to avoid catastrophe when climate change hits like a ton of bricks. You buys your ticket and you takes your chances.

If anybody wants my help for just about anything, I'm willing to help if I can. If they want to come at me from a critical mindset, or try to TELL me shit they think I don't already know? Well...fuck 'em.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Surly1 on October 19, 2018, 04:50:23 PM
Don't be jealous guys. Permies was backing my play long before I got here. (well, maybe only a quarter of their mods)I am all about connecting people. That is how we survive. I have to be very polite there.(they censured me once in that series and they are already used to me being the guy that breaks all the rules but puts up with it because I perform useful thoughts. I have to be mildly thoughtful there.  You are the folks I drink with.


Not jealous. I am your biggest fan.//

If anybody wants my help for just about anything, I'm willing to help if I can. If they want to come at me from a critical mindset, or try to TELL me shit they think I don't already know? Well...fuck 'em.

This may well be the best post I've ever read here, and I've written a truckload of 'em.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/wWue0rCDOphOE/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: azozeo on October 19, 2018, 04:56:56 PM
Don't be jealous guys. Permies was backing my play long before I got here. (well, maybe only a quarter of their mods)I am all about connecting people. That is how we survive. I have to be very polite there.(they censured me once in that series and they are already used to me being the guy that breaks all the rules but puts up with it because I perform useful thoughts. I have to be mildly thoughtful there.  You are the folks I drink with.


Not jealous. I am your biggest fan.//

If anybody wants my help for just about anything, I'm willing to help if I can. If they want to come at me from a critical mindset, or try to TELL me shit they think I don't already know? Well...fuck 'em.

This may well be the best post I've ever read here, and I've written a truckload of 'em.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/wWue0rCDOphOE/giphy.gif)


We gots the back door entrance at this haunt  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on November 13, 2018, 05:25:09 PM
Just for Re, My next one is UP

There is an Up joke in there https://darkgreenmountainsurvivalresearchcentre.wordpress.com/2018/11/14/c5-gets-wood-part-i-the-blue-pill-moment/
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on November 13, 2018, 05:42:20 PM
sent you a note through the site. email bounced back...
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on November 13, 2018, 06:28:00 PM
sent you a note through the site. email bounced back...
Thanks Big Guy. Got it.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on November 22, 2018, 08:32:16 AM
Extra, Extra, Read all about it...

I got some inspiration for a quick post today... and it is now up at DGM SRC. Enjoy  https://darkgreenmountainsurvivalresearchcentre.wordpress.com/2018/11/22/c5-snowed-in-for-the-winter-and-the-snow-plow-pocalypse-end-day/
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on November 22, 2018, 09:34:31 AM
Extra, Extra, Read all about it...

I got some inspiration for a quick post today... and it is now up at DGM SRC. Enjoy  https://darkgreenmountainsurvivalresearchcentre.wordpress.com/2018/11/22/c5-snowed-in-for-the-winter-and-the-snow-plow-pocalypse-end-day/

I'll cross-post it on the Diner today.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on November 22, 2018, 02:02:06 PM
Thanks big guy. I really just wanted to talk about the day that the snow plows stop plowing. Seemed a good day for it. Now its checked off the list of thing I wanted to teach on my blog.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on November 22, 2018, 02:19:17 PM
Just propaganda to turn back all the climate refugee Boomers from the US. Probably doesn't even snow up there anymore.

I can garden all winter. Too bad my best crop is lettuce.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: K-Dog on November 22, 2018, 02:52:00 PM
Just propaganda to turn back all the climate refugee Boomers from the US. Probably doesn't even snow up there anymore.

I can garden all winter. Too bad my best crop is lettuce.

Yes,  and I see snowplowmageddon as being a slow collapse phenomena.  While remote areas go first as budgets constrict, because they go first there is time to adjust.  No need to panic.

I agree, C5 is photo-shopping and using old photos for snow.  Here is 21st century snow.

(http://www.vintagesnowmobiles.50megs.com/B_W_PICTURES_JULY_16_2012_PP16045A.jpg)

There is still time to adjust, but without the old kind of snow we really don't have to.  The new kind does not fall from the sky.  Old snowmobiles will be better used turned into some kind of farmin implement.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on November 22, 2018, 03:26:57 PM
Careful what you wish for. All that heat is pushing north... and that polar cold is pushed south... towards us. A foot of snow hit last nigh. A couple more should show up tonight. Now add a bunch more soot or black carbon into the atmosphere from the fires, blocking sun and collecting moisture, add in all that extra moisture  from tropical evaporation. Voala. Global warming is snowy and cold. Expect more snow in Florida.

Photoshopping. Pfft. I used an old photo... because it was too cold and snowy to go outside for just another snow photo :icon_scratch: 
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on November 22, 2018, 03:33:37 PM
Old snowmobiles will be better used turned into some kind of farmin implement.
NF can run them on wood gas.  :icon_sunny:

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: K-Dog on November 22, 2018, 03:56:02 PM
Old snowmobiles will be better used turned into some kind of farmin implement.
NF can run them on wood gas.  :icon_sunny:

RE

I looked for a snowmobile that had been converted to run on wood gas but could not find one.  But I think we all like the vintage snowmobile I posted earlier.  A wood-gas snowmobile would best be built from scratch and it would be big since V-8s are best to convert and the burner has to be added.  It would be a big mama.  Having to stop ever few miles to throw a few wood rounds into the burner would keep a person warm. 

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fsunny.fm%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F02%2FAntique-and-Vintage-Snowmobile-Show-Big-Bay-Michigan-025.jpg&f=1)

imagine these things with a longer hood to hold a V-8 and burner and the towed trailer holding wood.  The track would be longer.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on November 22, 2018, 04:04:28 PM
Old snowmobiles will be better used turned into some kind of farmin implement.
NF can run them on wood gas.  :icon_sunny:

RE

I looked for a snowmobile that had been converted to run on wood gas but could not find one.  But I think we all like the vintage snowmobile I posted earlier.  A wood-gas snowmobile would best be built from scratch and it would be big since V-8s are best to convert and the burner has to be added.  It would be a big mama.  Having to stop ever few miles to throw a few wood rounds into the burner would keep a person warm. 

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fsunny.fm%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F02%2FAntique-and-Vintage-Snowmobile-Show-Big-Bay-Michigan-025.jpg&f=1)

imagine these things with a longer hood to hold a V-8 and burner and the towed trailer holding wood.  The track would be longer.

I'll wait for commentary from the local expert NF before I chip in my further 2 cents on woodgas snowmobiles.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on November 22, 2018, 05:24:55 PM
Old snowmobiles will be better used turned into some kind of farmin implement.
NF can run them on wood gas.  :icon_sunny:

RE

I looked for a snowmobile that had been converted to run on wood gas but could not find one.  But I think we all like the vintage snowmobile I posted earlier.  A wood-gas snowmobile would best be built from scratch and it would be big since V-8s are best to convert and the burner has to be added.  It would be a big mama.  Having to stop ever few miles to throw a few wood rounds into the burner would keep a person warm. 

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http://sunny.fm/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Antique-and-Vintage-Snowmobile-Show-Big-Bay-Michigan-025.jpg&f=1)

imagine these things with a longer hood to hold a V-8 and burner and the towed trailer holding wood.  The track would be longer.

First off I agree with C5. Rural canada without modern roads is a patchwork of towns and snowed in hamlets. Once the cottagers withdraw from this area the road systems will shrink back to cart paths. My personal marker of collapse is when all these lake roads start reverting to gravel  and the grading slows down. There has already been a huge outcry because each road got 1 fewer gradings this year. Roadwork sucks up 40 percent of our local budget much of which falls on the back of absentee cottage owners. That said...Some of you know I'm half french canadian. Bombardier before the planes and trains was all about the snow mobile. Legend has it much like a quebec version of Henry ford Bombardier wanted to help rural people to get around in the winter. His original machine was made for fresh snow and snow drifts. this link is to more advanced models from the 1940's or 50's. Lots of collectors get together and show them off. http://www.youtube.com/v/CBVq-NmCWtU?ecver=1
I have a cousin who is a vintage machine fanatique... of course I have 18 cousins on the french side so there was bound to be one! Before the age of the internal combustion engine the tradition according to grandpapa was after a big storm the boys would snowshoe back and forth along the road to create a compacted sled trail. Next would come the sledges then the ski clad carriages. Winter was not the worst time for transport but early spring was a disaster. All this is just oral history far past my time or even my parent's time. I did find this great link to the history of snow removal: http://mentalfloss.com/article/32006/scenes-history-snow-removal (http://mentalfloss.com/article/32006/scenes-history-snow-removal) it kind of bears out what he said about compacting snow not removing it. As far as wood gas the problem with modern snow machines are the high RPM, and 2 stroke engines used in high speed units. I looked into converting one that used a 2 stroke oil reservoir but the budget and time does not allow even more projects. If I was to do a wood gas version I would try to recreate this: http://www.youtube.com/v/1VKoF9Y8Fug?ecver=1 That is the tractor I already have. Edmund Hillary even used them on his South pole expedition.  http://www.youtube.com/v/Wc3rt2LpWO0?ecver=1
PS picture out the window 2 days ago and the magic thermometer an hour ago no photo shop required. its supposed to rain in 2 days. That will be worse because when the ground is that cold it instantly freezes into a sheet of ice.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on November 22, 2018, 06:56:45 PM
Thanks NF. You are a super star.

Its only half the story. The gravel roads will turn to muck. Add in all the drainage culverts and small bridges that the beavers will plug up and forget roads. A waterflow becomes a pond, then a river. Bye bey roads. That is forgetting all about fast moving tree encroachment

the good news is that winter may become the only practical time to travel. Ponds become ice. Mud becomes solid. Ontario has got quite the networks of canals and lakes. Forget the lake roads. They came late and recent. First came the waterways. You travel on the frozen water
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on November 22, 2018, 07:09:11 PM
Basically, my response to the problem C5 has of getting up the hill with the car is a more traditional one than trying to modify or adapt a modern snow machine to wood gas.  In both his case and NF, it's a One Horse Open Sleigh.

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Qv3X3jCGxAQ/TuYi0f-v2cI/AAAAAAAACo8/9qVUJbv2Ue0/s1600/rhythm sleigh.JPG)

In fact, I am a little surprised neither of these Uber Preppers has a horse, given they both have enough property to support one.  There was a prepper back on Peak Oil Forum who went by the ID of Old Horseman who also showed up here a few times.  He wrote about the joys and the travails and difficulties of working with horses.  He used them as his primary power source, no tractor for Old Horseman.  This guy was the real thing, he knew his equines.

If you are going to use horses, best to start prepping up now, because all the tack you need isn't going to be EZ to come by after SHTF Day arrives.  Also not a real good time to be a complete novice and have to learn everything from scratch. For just about all applications for a small Doomsteader, one horse is enough although two is better.  IMHO (just from reading, I'm not a pro horseman), the Amerikan Quarter Horse is the best All-Purpose breed for work.

(https://todaysequine.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/american_quarter_horse.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/v/qmVaEn57EHY

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on November 22, 2018, 07:21:22 PM
The just get a horse argument comes up a fair bit. In the 19th century I would argue the horse was every bit as resource intensive and hard on the household budget as the car is today. On top of that you can't park it for the winter it idles 365 days a year. I live in hill country on the Canadian shield. There is not enough pasture around to run on horses. It was done once upon a time but the oats to supplement them always came by rail and at least half the tree overed land was pasture and hay fields. I calculate I can get 20hrs of tractor time per acre per year just in charcoal let alone the 75 percent of the embedded wood energy used for heating, and keep the forest intact... got to keep the machines running though...
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on November 22, 2018, 07:45:35 PM
The just get a horse argument comes up a fair bit. In the 19th century I would argue the horse was every bit as resource intensive and hard on the household budget as the car is today. On top of that you can't park it for the winter it idles 365 days a year. I live in hill country on the Canadian shield. There is not enough pasture around to run on horses. It was done once upon a time but the oats to supplement them always came by rail and at least half the tree overed land was pasture and hay fields. I calculate I can get 20hrs of tractor time per acre per year just in charcoal let alone the 75 percent of the embedded wood energy used for heating, and keep the forest intact... got a keep the machines running though...

Well, thing is you never really do "idle" the horse, you use it year round.  Horses are quite popular up here on the Last Great Frontier, we have whole communities built around them with enough room on each of the plots to support a horse.  They do use imported food of course, I doubt many of them grow enough feed to support the horse.  On the other hand though, I don't expect the Alaska Railroad will stop running anytime too soon, and it serves the entire corridor from Seward to Fairbanks, where most of the (small) population lives.

In the medium term, there needs to be a combination of machines like railroads which are big enough to run on stuff like wood gas and which can transport food stuffs for animals and Homo Saps over long distances, and then the horses for your personal use.  Expense wise, you are quite correct IMHO, supporting a horse isn't cheap nor was it ever I think.  However, you don't need spare parts for a horse.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on November 22, 2018, 07:56:54 PM
Thanks NF. You are a super star.

Its only half the story. The gravel roads will turn to muck. Add in all the drainage culverts and small bridges that the beavers will plug up and forget roads. A waterflow becomes a pond, then a river. Bye bey roads. That is forgetting all about fast moving tree encroachment

the good news is that winter may become the only practical time to travel. Ponds become ice. Mud becomes solid. Ontario has got quite the networks of canals and lakes. Forget the lake roads. They came late and recent. First came the waterways. You travel on the frozen water
Yes my road would quickly return to marsh land and cedar bog... I meant the return to gravel as my personal collapse litmus test. Funny story though the paved provincial road 200 ft from my house is the descendant of Moncks road originally built to link  Ottawa, and York (toronto) via an inland route not vulnerable to those pesky Yankees. It of course had been in use for countless thousands of years by first nations peoples. The terrain of that route is naturally a little higher and drier then the land around it. Further south and further north all waterway transit. here... lots of hoofing it historically. Its also referred to as " the land between" as made famous by the group of seven.
Cheers, happy hibernating... With internet
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on November 24, 2018, 06:36:30 PM
Hey Re. Encase you missed it,  Irv Mills latest, part 4 is up and should be posted. I bring it up because I will be quoting his series hugely in my "C5 defines the adapters movement" post, under the  major Adaptation principal, "Location Location Location"
http://theeasiestpersontofool.blogspot.com/2018/11/responding-to-collapse-part-4-getting.html (http://theeasiestpersontofool.blogspot.com/2018/11/responding-to-collapse-part-4-getting.html)

Quick question. Does he interact here? Best to know before I contact him over the next few days
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on November 24, 2018, 06:45:52 PM
Hey Re. Encase you missed it,  Irv Mills latest, part 4 is up and should be posted. I bring it up because I will be quoting his series hugely in my "C5 defines the adapters movement" post, under the  major Adaptation principal, "Location Location Location"
http://theeasiestpersontofool.blogspot.com/2018/11/responding-to-collapse-part-4-getting.html (http://theeasiestpersontofool.blogspot.com/2018/11/responding-to-collapse-part-4-getting.html)

Quick question. Does he interact here? Best to know before I contact him over the next few days

Irv's latest is in the queue, he already dropped it on.  Unfortunately, I am somewhat behind on posting his articles due to a lot of other stuff rolling in for publication.  He has dropped on inside the Diner a few times, but mostly just responds to comments made on the blog.  He'll know quite well who you are talking about if you mention the Diner, no issues there.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on December 03, 2018, 02:38:37 PM
"C5 Gets Wood- Addendum- Part I and a 1/2- Touching Wood" is now up.

https://darkgreenmountainsurvivalresearchcentre.wordpress.com/2018/12/03/c5-gets-wood-addendum-part-ii-and-1-2-touching-wood/

I know everyone wants to see my wood..... :evil4: ::) Something something about the Me Too movement.... I'm getting nothing.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: azozeo on December 03, 2018, 03:27:38 PM
"C5 Gets Wood- Addendum- Part I and a 1/2- Touching Wood" is now up.

https://darkgreenmountainsurvivalresearchcentre.wordpress.com/2018/12/03/c5-gets-wood-addendum-part-ii-and-1-2-touching-wood/

I know everyone wants to see my wood..... :evil4: ::) Something something about the Me Too movement.... I'm getting nothing.


 :emthup: :emthup:
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on December 03, 2018, 04:06:00 PM
"C5 Gets Wood- Addendum- Part I and a 1/2- Touching Wood" is now up.

https://darkgreenmountainsurvivalresearchcentre.wordpress.com/2018/12/03/c5-gets-wood-addendum-part-ii-and-1-2-touching-wood/

I know everyone wants to see my wood..... :evil4: ::) Something something about the Me Too movement.... I'm getting nothing.

Here, the invasive species is Ash Juniper, which they used to turn into charcoal, back in the 19th century. It was once a cottage industry in these parts. It burns too hot for a wood stove too, although it's nice for the occasional campfire, this time of year. That's why I like the idea of using it for a cordwood house. That's about the only thing, other than poles and fence posts, that it's good for. And it sucks water.

This guy proved fairly conclusively (to me anyway) that removing the "cedar" is good for making ancient springs start to flow again. Good for the land. I have been neglecting mine, and it's taking over. But it had a 50 year headstart. Maybe one of these days.

https://bambergerranch.org/our-story

Bamberger has spent half a long lifetime restoring the worst 5000 acres of Hill Country he could find. He spent the first half amassing the money to do it by being a typically greedy capitalist pig, apparently. Maybe he redeemed himself.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on December 03, 2018, 05:30:50 PM
"C5 Gets Wood- Addendum- Part I and a 1/2- Touching Wood" is now up.

https://darkgreenmountainsurvivalresearchcentre.wordpress.com/2018/12/03/c5-gets-wood-addendum-part-ii-and-1-2-touching-wood/

I know everyone wants to see my wood..... :evil4: ::) Something something about the Me Too movement.... I'm getting nothing.
nice! I like my poulan electric chainsaw. I would say its essential elements are good. You can't adjust oil flow rate like on the still though which is annoying. I usually use a thinner chain oil that flows a little faster to compensate. I want to one day get the stihl electric generally accepted as the leader in corded electrics...
Cheers.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on December 03, 2018, 06:13:30 PM
"C5 Gets Wood- Addendum- Part I and a 1/2- Touching Wood" is now up.

https://darkgreenmountainsurvivalresearchcentre.wordpress.com/2018/12/03/c5-gets-wood-addendum-part-ii-and-1-2-touching-wood/

I know everyone wants to see my wood..... :evil4: ::) Something something about the Me Too movement.... I'm getting nothing.
nice! I like my poulan electric chainsaw. I would say its essential elements are good. You can't adjust oil flow rate like on the still though which is annoying. I usually use a thinner chain oil that flows a little faster to compensate. I want to one day get the stihl electric generally accepted as the leader in corded electrics...
Cheers.
While I've got you here, NF. is there any possible substitute for 2stroke mix. So far, everyone has said no... but I dont figure most people think of such things.

Bar oil is easy. Mythose uses vegtable oil in his saw since he doesnt want to spread oil on his land. He says it works better. Old rednecks just put in used motor oil. yikes.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on December 03, 2018, 07:03:26 PM
"C5 Gets Wood- Addendum- Part I and a 1/2- Touching Wood" is now up.

https://darkgreenmountainsurvivalresearchcentre.wordpress.com/2018/12/03/c5-gets-wood-addendum-part-ii-and-1-2-touching-wood/ (https://darkgreenmountainsurvivalresearchcentre.wordpress.com/2018/12/03/c5-gets-wood-addendum-part-ii-and-1-2-touching-wood/)

I know everyone wants to see my wood..... :evil4: ::) Something something about the Me Too movement.... I'm getting nothing.
nice! I like my poulan electric chainsaw. I would say its essential elements are good. You can't adjust oil flow rate like on the still though which is annoying. I usually use a thinner chain oil that flows a little faster to compensate. I want to one day get the stihl electric generally accepted as the leader in corded electrics...
Cheers.
While I've got you here, NF. is there any possible substitute for 2stroke mix. So far, everyone has said no... but I dont figure most people think of such things.

Bar oil is easy. Mythose uses vegtable oil in his saw since he doesnt want to spread oil on his land. He says it works better. Old rednecks just put in used motor oil. yikes.
First thought is Why? The oil lasts longer then the gas its made to go with... Having said that the marine guys are using a lot of biodegradable 2 stroke oils like this stuff: https://fortnine.ca/en/motul-bio-2t-biodegradable-oil?gclid=Cj0KCQiAxZPgBRCmARIsAOrTHSb33DbpKv9SiJB98ybQvekzPE9zgEI4qkrxMrZwAtlT0H6O-Z0wa3gaAgjDEALw_wcB#493=1550 (https://fortnine.ca/en/motul-bio-2t-biodegradable-oil?gclid=Cj0KCQiAxZPgBRCmARIsAOrTHSb33DbpKv9SiJB98ybQvekzPE9zgEI4qkrxMrZwAtlT0H6O-Z0wa3gaAgjDEALw_wcB#493=1550)
The problem with substituting a homemade solution is its not just oil... Getting the right combination of stickiness to coat rotating parts, solvents to dissolve carbons and even some metals they include in it has taken 60 years of tinkering. Saws are lighter turn faster and last longer then a generation ago you'll burn them up experimenting. My solution would be to stockpile some of this stuff: https://www.stihlusa.com/products/oils--lubricants-and-fuels/premixed-fuel/ (https://www.stihlusa.com/products/oils--lubricants-and-fuels/premixed-fuel/) to keep going once your gas and oil has been used up. I believe its good for 5 years unopened and 1 once started. I've used 2 litres of it and it rocks. the fire department stockpiles it here as well for their gear; 2 stroke pumps, chainsaws and jaws of life. I'm sold on it. I've even seen generic versions popping up at crappy tire at half the price.  For me I'm still sticking to my 2 stroke for now but I want to apply my charcoal generator to my electric chainsaw as my go to solution. for bar oil I've started using this biodegradable chain oil from stihl:  https://www.stihlusa.com/products/oils--lubricants-and-fuels/oils-and-lubricants/biooil/ (https://www.stihlusa.com/products/oils--lubricants-and-fuels/oils-and-lubricants/biooil/) my local store had never heard of it and had to order it in special for me... it has a shelf life as well. I tried linseed oil and canola oil but found them both a little off... good bar oil is sticky enough to fling the wood chips away and fluid enough to keep the chain cool and sharp. I have not used the biodegradable oil at less then zero celsius though...
That's all I got,  cheers,  David
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on December 04, 2018, 01:59:58 PM
"C5 Gets Wood- Addendum- Part I and a 1/2- Touching Wood" is now up.

https://darkgreenmountainsurvivalresearchcentre.wordpress.com/2018/12/03/c5-gets-wood-addendum-part-ii-and-1-2-touching-wood/ (https://darkgreenmountainsurvivalresearchcentre.wordpress.com/2018/12/03/c5-gets-wood-addendum-part-ii-and-1-2-touching-wood/)

I know everyone wants to see my wood..... :evil4: ::) Something something about the Me Too movement.... I'm getting nothing.
nice! I like my poulan electric chainsaw. I would say its essential elements are good. You can't adjust oil flow rate like on the still though which is annoying. I usually use a thinner chain oil that flows a little faster to compensate. I want to one day get the stihl electric generally accepted as the leader in corded electrics...
Cheers.
While I've got you here, NF. is there any possible substitute for 2stroke mix. So far, everyone has said no... but I dont figure most people think of such things.

Bar oil is easy. Mythose uses vegtable oil in his saw since he doesnt want to spread oil on his land. He says it works better. Old rednecks just put in used motor oil. yikes.
First thought is Why? The oil lasts longer then the gas its made to go with... Having said that the marine guys are using a lot of biodegradable 2 stroke oils like this stuff: https://fortnine.ca/en/motul-bio-2t-biodegradable-oil?gclid=Cj0KCQiAxZPgBRCmARIsAOrTHSb33DbpKv9SiJB98ybQvekzPE9zgEI4qkrxMrZwAtlT0H6O-Z0wa3gaAgjDEALw_wcB#493=1550 (https://fortnine.ca/en/motul-bio-2t-biodegradable-oil?gclid=Cj0KCQiAxZPgBRCmARIsAOrTHSb33DbpKv9SiJB98ybQvekzPE9zgEI4qkrxMrZwAtlT0H6O-Z0wa3gaAgjDEALw_wcB#493=1550)
The problem with substituting a homemade solution is its not just oil... Getting the right combination of stickiness to coat rotating parts, solvents to dissolve carbons and even some metals they include in it has taken 60 years of tinkering. Saws are lighter turn faster and last longer then a generation ago you'll burn them up experimenting. My solution would be to stockpile some of this stuff: https://www.stihlusa.com/products/oils--lubricants-and-fuels/premixed-fuel/ (https://www.stihlusa.com/products/oils--lubricants-and-fuels/premixed-fuel/) to keep going once your gas and oil has been used up. I believe its good for 5 years unopened and 1 once started. I've used 2 litres of it and it rocks. the fire department stockpiles it here as well for their gear; 2 stroke pumps, chainsaws and jaws of life. I'm sold on it. I've even seen generic versions popping up at crappy tire at half the price.  For me I'm still sticking to my 2 stroke for now but I want to apply my charcoal generator to my electric chainsaw as my go to solution. for bar oil I've started using this biodegradable chain oil from stihl:  https://www.stihlusa.com/products/oils--lubricants-and-fuels/oils-and-lubricants/biooil/ (https://www.stihlusa.com/products/oils--lubricants-and-fuels/oils-and-lubricants/biooil/) my local store had never heard of it and had to order it in special for me... it has a shelf life as well. I tried linseed oil and canola oil but found them both a little off... good bar oil is sticky enough to fling the wood chips away and fluid enough to keep the chain cool and sharp. I have not used the biodegradable oil at less then zero celsius though...
That's all I got,  cheers,  David
That is a very good question, NS. "First thought is Why?"

It is simply a progression of thought. In case I ever give you the idea that I am an "expert"... in anything..., I assure you that I am not. I suck in my knowledge base. I wasn't taught shit by my elders. I simply stumble from one impossible problem to solve to the next. We are all crippled by White Privilege. I figured out that gas was important to store. I had less than a ltr of 2-stroke mix. I was not motivated to have more... until I realised how screwed I was. I still only have 4ltrs. Its really hard to get motivated to cover something that is going to go away. Yet it is essential. I figure others are there as well facing the same problem. I may be lethally screwed by not having an alternative to 2-stroke oil... thus it seems a good question to ask. Being a semi, quasi, fake expert... only means I have advanced to the point to asking the right questions.

Same with a Black Belt. Some see a black belt as the goal. A Black Belt simply means you have acquired enough knowledge to begin your training.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 04, 2018, 02:04:49 PM
I figured out that gas was important to store. I had less than a ltr of 2-stroke mix. I was not motivated to have more... until I realised how screwed I was. I still only have 4ltrs. Its really hard to get motivated to cover something that is going to go away.

Your car stores way more gas than 4 litres.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on December 04, 2018, 02:14:00 PM
Not pre-mix.

Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 04, 2018, 02:20:25 PM
Not pre-mix.

So mix it after you siphon it.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on December 04, 2018, 02:35:01 PM
That may have got lost in translation.

 By 2-stroke mix, I mean the gas additive you add to gas for 2 stroke engines. It is an oil additive you add so that small gas engines dont over heat and then seize or weld together with the engine block.

I was always wondering about that with woodgas (ex diesel)  engines as well
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 04, 2018, 02:41:42 PM
That may have got lost in translation.

 By 2-stroke mix, I mean the gas additive you add to gas for 2 stroke engines. It is an oil additive you add so that small gas engines dont over heat and then seize or weld together with the engine block.

I was always wondering about that with woodgas (ex diesel)  engines as well

I'm sure NF could come up with a way to run one on wood gas.  You probably could run it on propane as long as you add lubricant of some type.  You would have to experiment around a bit, use a cheap model for that.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on December 04, 2018, 03:08:12 PM
Hang on.

 Considering the lack of knowledge base that few of us were taught ( I didn't know this) a small engine like a saw, a bike engine, some mini or motorcross bikes, a lawn mower, etc, dont have an oil input to lubricate piston from engine block. It must be added to gas.

Diesel engines are completely different,  Diesel is oily so diesel engines get oiled that way... but they are bad in the cold unless you keep them running or have an plug in oil heater. You need the heat to keep the oil viscous or slippery.

2- stroke oil is what you add to gas so a piston and engine block do not weld together. Regular oil will not do. I'm not sure what oil will because that is outside of my knowledge
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on December 04, 2018, 03:12:18 PM
Although "2 stroke oil"  is a thing, regular motor oil was used in years gone by, albeit at a higher oil to gas ratio. It will still work. Just mix it 16:1 instead of 40:1 or 50:1 or whatever the engine normally calls for.

The main reason they changed was to reduce emissions, although there are a few other nuances.

You mix oil with gas in a 2 stroke because there is no oil filling the crankcase. This is to allow the AIR in the crankcase to be compressed so that it will push the exhaust gases out. 2 strokes don't have a camshaft and valves.

The little half pints of "special 2 stroke oil" are really convenient, and the stuff might be a little better. to keep pistons and rings from sticking, which is how 2 strokes die. In the fullness of time, they probably might be hard to come by.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: azozeo on December 04, 2018, 03:14:46 PM
"C5 Gets Wood- Addendum- Part I and a 1/2- Touching Wood" is now up.

https://darkgreenmountainsurvivalresearchcentre.wordpress.com/2018/12/03/c5-gets-wood-addendum-part-ii-and-1-2-touching-wood/ (https://darkgreenmountainsurvivalresearchcentre.wordpress.com/2018/12/03/c5-gets-wood-addendum-part-ii-and-1-2-touching-wood/)

I know everyone wants to see my wood..... :evil4: ::) Something something about the Me Too movement.... I'm getting nothing.


 :emthup: :emthup:


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-03/a-wall-street-rule-for-the-metoo-era-avoid-women-at-all-cost (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-03/a-wall-street-rule-for-the-metoo-era-avoid-women-at-all-cost)


B@@M  :evil4:
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on December 04, 2018, 03:16:03 PM
Diesel engines can be 2 stroke or 4 stroke. The old ones used to all be 2 stroke. Once again, emissions were the problem.

Big diesel 2 strokes had a different way of compressing the air to eject the burnt gases, while still allowing a crankcase with lubricating oil.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: azozeo on December 04, 2018, 03:21:33 PM
Although "2 stroke oil"  is a thing, regular motor oil was used in years gone by, albeit at a higher oil to gas ratio. It will still work. Just mix it 16:1 instead of 40:1 or 50:1 or whatever the engine normally calls for.

The main reason they changed was to reduce emissions, although there are a few other nuances.

You mix oil with gas in a 2 stroke because there is no oil filling the crankcase. This is to allow the AIR in the crankcase to be compressed so that it will push the exhaust gases out. 2 strokes don't have a camshaft and valves.

The little half pints of "special 2 stroke oil" are really convenient, and the stuff might be a little better. to keep pistons and rings from sticking, which is how 2 strokes die. In the fullness of time, they probably might be hard to come by.

About 10 years back I was all into chinese built - 2 stroke engines on bicycles. A phase thing. Anyway, That having to add mix & fuel is a pain, messy & stinky.

Honda makes a small  4 stroke engine now for bikes & such. But you pay for it. The chinese el cheapo was around $100 plus shipping, off of Alibaba.
Now I'm sure it's 4 Benjamins plus shipping minimum.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on December 04, 2018, 03:23:58 PM
Here, in rural "ag" counties, you can still get gas with no alcohol (although it costs more) and it doesn't go bad as fast, or ruin carburetors if it's not all run dry..

 I have one of these and I hope I can fill it with ag gas and add Stabil when the time comes.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/31VP6o0dFfL._AC_UL160_.jpg)
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: azozeo on December 04, 2018, 03:32:10 PM
Here, in rural "ag" counties, you can still get gas with no alcohol (although it costs more) and it doesn't go bad as fast, or ruin carburetors if it's not all run dry..

 I have one of these and I hope I can fill it with ag gas and add Stabil when the time comes.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/31VP6o0dFfL._AC_UL160_.jpg)

Have you had good results in the past with Sta-Bil

I'm using it for the 1st time in my Audi Cabrio. I hope to run the car after the holidays.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on December 04, 2018, 05:01:29 PM
Stabil works by floating on top of the fuel in the tank. It works as long as it doesn't get agitated and all mixed with the gas. Good for cars parked in the garage. Supposed to work for a couple of years. Maybe longer where you are since it's really dry.

Sea Foam is supposed to be better for small engines.

Here, the fuel injected engines are pretty good at getting old fuel to burn. Not like my MGA with the dual SU's. They go bad fast. My Donzi with the 350 FI Mercruiser (Chevy) will start right up with year old gas in it. Not so the Mastercraft with the 351 Windsor Ford with Holley 600cfm four barrel carb.

Your Audi is FI, right? I wouldn't worry about a couple of months of no driving.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on December 04, 2018, 08:06:58 PM
"C5 Gets Wood- Addendum- Part I and a 1/2- Touching Wood" is now up.

https://darkgreenmountainsurvivalresearchcentre.wordpress.com/2018/12/03/c5-gets-wood-addendum-part-ii-and-1-2-touching-wood/ (https://darkgreenmountainsurvivalresearchcentre.wordpress.com/2018/12/03/c5-gets-wood-addendum-part-ii-and-1-2-touching-wood/)

I know everyone wants to see my wood..... :evil4: ::) Something something about the Me Too movement.... I'm getting nothing.
nice! I like my poulan electric chainsaw. I would say its essential elements are good. You can't adjust oil flow rate like on the still though which is annoying. I usually use a thinner chain oil that flows a little faster to compensate. I want to one day get the stihl electric generally accepted as the leader in corded electrics...
Cheers.
While I've got you here, NF. is there any possible substitute for 2stroke mix. So far, everyone has said no... but I dont figure most people think of such things.

Bar oil is easy. Mythose uses vegtable oil in his saw since he doesnt want to spread oil on his land. He says it works better. Old rednecks just put in used motor oil. yikes.
First thought is Why? The oil lasts longer then the gas its made to go with... Having said that the marine guys are using a lot of biodegradable 2 stroke oils like this stuff: https://fortnine.ca/en/motul-bio-2t-biodegradable-oil?gclid=Cj0KCQiAxZPgBRCmARIsAOrTHSb33DbpKv9SiJB98ybQvekzPE9zgEI4qkrxMrZwAtlT0H6O-Z0wa3gaAgjDEALw_wcB#493=1550 (https://fortnine.ca/en/motul-bio-2t-biodegradable-oil?gclid=Cj0KCQiAxZPgBRCmARIsAOrTHSb33DbpKv9SiJB98ybQvekzPE9zgEI4qkrxMrZwAtlT0H6O-Z0wa3gaAgjDEALw_wcB#493=1550)
The problem with substituting a homemade solution is its not just oil... Getting the right combination of stickiness to coat rotating parts, solvents to dissolve carbons and even some metals they include in it has taken 60 years of tinkering. Saws are lighter turn faster and last longer then a generation ago you'll burn them up experimenting. My solution would be to stockpile some of this stuff: https://www.stihlusa.com/products/oils--lubricants-and-fuels/premixed-fuel/ (https://www.stihlusa.com/products/oils--lubricants-and-fuels/premixed-fuel/) to keep going once your gas and oil has been used up. I believe its good for 5 years unopened and 1 once started. I've used 2 litres of it and it rocks. the fire department stockpiles it here as well for their gear; 2 stroke pumps, chainsaws and jaws of life. I'm sold on it. I've even seen generic versions popping up at crappy tire at half the price.  For me I'm still sticking to my 2 stroke for now but I want to apply my charcoal generator to my electric chainsaw as my go to solution. for bar oil I've started using this biodegradable chain oil from stihl:  https://www.stihlusa.com/products/oils--lubricants-and-fuels/oils-and-lubricants/biooil/ (https://www.stihlusa.com/products/oils--lubricants-and-fuels/oils-and-lubricants/biooil/) my local store had never heard of it and had to order it in special for me... it has a shelf life as well. I tried linseed oil and canola oil but found them both a little off... good bar oil is sticky enough to fling the wood chips away and fluid enough to keep the chain cool and sharp. I have not used the biodegradable oil at less then zero celsius though...
That's all I got,  cheers,  David
That is a very good question, NS. "First thought is Why?"

It is simply a progression of thought. In case I ever give you the idea that I am an "expert"... in anything..., I assure you that I am not. I suck in my knowledge base. I wasn't taught shit by my elders. I simply stumble from one impossible problem to solve to the next. We are all crippled by White Privilege. I figured out that gas was important to store. I had less than a ltr of 2-stroke mix. I was not motivated to have more... until I realised how screwed I was. I still only have 4ltrs. Its really hard to get motivated to cover something that is going to go away. Yet it is essential. I figure others are there as well facing the same problem. I may be lethally screwed by not having an alternative to 2-stroke oil... thus it seems a good question to ask. Being a semi, quasi, fake expert... only means I have advanced to the point to asking the right questions.

Same with a Black Belt. Some see a black belt as the goal. A Black Belt simply means you have acquired enough knowledge to begin your training.
First off I was not trying to be a smart ass I was really wondering on your motivation. With more clarity my opinion is the same. The gasoline will go bad in 2 years, stockpile enough good mix for that time period and some for trade, Some canned premium fuel for a little bit after that and a good crosscut saw after that...Old school two strokes could get by with regular oil but usually that was  boats and slower rpm engines. Big honking Chainsaws from the 1970's with steel engine blocks  weighing 40-50 lbs. I only go back so far.  Ash, carbonizing, plug fouling, exhaust temps going up are all possible outcomes. New gear is optimized for the fuel and lubricants designed for it  with very little wiggle room.
As to diesels and woodgas its been done. The limit seems to be 80 percent replacement same goes for replacing diesel with propane or natural gas. The explosion in a diesel cylinder is caused by the diesel being compressed with air in the cylinder, gases do not have the same properties. So they feed in 80 percent gas and 20 percent diesel, compress inside the cylinder with the right air ratio, the diesel explodes making the other replacement flammable gas explode as well... The diesel detonates the other fuel. Now imagine getting the metering just right with changing loads etc... Stationary engines maybe but mobile... A non starter. You also need the diesel in the mix because the injectors and valves are cooled and lubricated by having it flow and spray on them. Too complicated for me. I like my spark ignition. Diesels are traditionally more efficient due to greater energy density in the fuel and the higher compression ratio of the engine; the pressure of the compressed gasses when they explode. The more compressed the greater the efficiency of the explosion. In recent years gasoline engines have been increasing this pressure so the efficiency gap between diesel and gasoline is getting more narrow.
Verbal diesel diareya
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 04, 2018, 08:15:04 PM
First off I was not trying to be a smart ass I was really wondering on your motivation. With more clarity my opinion is the same. The gasoline will go bad in 2 years, stockpile enough good mix for that time period and some for trade, Some canned premium fuel for a little bit after that and a good crosscut saw after that...Old school two strokes could get by with regular oil but usually that was  boats and slower rpm engines. Big honking Chainsaws from the 1970's with steel engine blocks  weighing 40-50 lbs. I only go back so far.  Ash, carbonizing, plug fouling, exhaust temps going up are all possible outcomes. New gear is optimized for the fuel and lubricants designed for it  with very little wiggle room.
As to diesels and woodgas its been done. The limit seems to be 80 percent replacement same goes for replacing diesel with propane or natural gas. The explosion in a diesel cylinder is caused by the diesel being compressed with air in the cylinder, gases do not have the same properties. So they feed in 80 percent gas and 20 percent diesel, compress inside the cylinder with the right air ratio, the diesel explodes making the other replacement flammable gas explode as well... The diesel detonates the other fuel. Now imagine getting the metering just right with changing loads etc... Stationary engines maybe but mobile... A non starter. You also need the diesel in the mix because the injectors and valves are cooled and lubricated by having it flow and spray on them. Too complicated for me. I like my spark ignition. Diesels are traditionally more efficient due to greater energy density in the fuel and the higher compression ratio of the engine; the pressure of the compressed gasses when they explode. The more compressed the greater the efficiency of the explosion. In recent years gasoline engines have been increasing this pressure so the efficiency gap between diesel and gasoline is getting more narrow.
Verbal diesel diareya

How about running a chain saw on compressed air?  Then you could use a big ass wood gas engine to compress the air and all you would need is an air hose for it.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on December 04, 2018, 09:02:56 PM
Hydraulics would be better than air and they are available. Linesmen use them. Expensive as hell but supposed to last forever. The hydraulic unit would be a fairly simple woodgas conversion
http://www.youtube.com/v/aUR1VmWjqxc?ecver=1

My chosen solution will be an electric chainsaw powered by a woodgas generator.
Electric chainsaw of my dreams: http://www.youtube.com/v/oGyt8IXHW40?ecver=1

This is gary Gilmore's  video my mentor in charcoal gas http://www.youtube.com/v/KAJXdaCQ6uQ?ecver=1


Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 04, 2018, 09:13:58 PM
Hydraulics would be better than air and they are available. Linesmen use them. Expensive as hell but supposed to last forever. The hydraulic unit would be a fairly simple woodgas conversion

Well, if you are going to buy a commercially sold unit, of course it would be expensive!  ::)  The idea here is to DIY.  I think with the guts of a chainsaw sans motor, you could pick up some used air tools on Craig's list and slip the air rotor from a big impact driver into the chainsaw in place of the motor.  They run at real high RPMs though so you would probably have to gear it down.  It would be super light in weight though.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on December 04, 2018, 09:26:20 PM
Hydraulics would be better than air and they are available. Linesmen use them. Expensive as hell but supposed to last forever. The hydraulic unit would be a fairly simple woodgas conversion

Well, if you are going to buy a commercially sold unit, of course it would be expensive!  ::)  The idea here is to DIY.  I think with the guts of a chainsaw sans motor, you could pick up some used air tools on Craig's list and slip the air rotor from a big impact driver into the chainsaw in place of the motor.  They run at real high RPMs though so you would probably have to gear it down.  It would be super light in weight though.

RE
Actually a two stroke engine can be turned into an air engine using a check valve. When I was thinking steam I came across the conversion. They demonstrate it on air. I can't find that video just this one. You would have to include an inline oiler to keep it from seizing up. Strength might be an issue.
http://www.youtube.com/v/qkNwRln_Sic?ecver=1
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 04, 2018, 09:39:49 PM
Hydraulics would be better than air and they are available. Linesmen use them. Expensive as hell but supposed to last forever. The hydraulic unit would be a fairly simple woodgas conversion

Well, if you are going to buy a commercially sold unit, of course it would be expensive!  ::)  The idea here is to DIY.  I think with the guts of a chainsaw sans motor, you could pick up some used air tools on Craig's list and slip the air rotor from a big impact driver into the chainsaw in place of the motor.  They run at real high RPMs though so you would probably have to gear it down.  It would be super light in weight though.

RE
Actually a two stroke engine can be turned into an air engine using a check valve. When I was thinking steam I came across the conversion. They demonstrate it on air. I can't find that video just this one. You would have to include an inline oiler to keep it from seizing up. Strength might be an issue.
http://www.youtube.com/v/qkNwRln_Sic?ecver=1

Another project for you!  ;D

Downside of using an engine run on air is you don't shave off the weight, except for the gas tank of course.  An air rotor/turbine weighs a lot less, and it has fewer moving parts and doesn't need so much lubricant.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on December 04, 2018, 10:31:14 PM
Ya. The electric Stihl has been at the top of my wish list for a few years. I dont see it happening though. Things are tight.

I found myself perusing electric saw review last night. Mikita also sounds good in the 400 dollar range but still too much. Consistently, people were promoting the Worx MG303.1 14.5 amp in Best Buy for your buck category. That I think I can afford. (more expensive in cana'duh and no warranty)

https://www.amazon.com/Worx-Electric-Chainsaw-Auto-Tension-Automatic/dp/B004NITD9O?tag=sawguy-20&SubscriptionId=AKIAJ7AVFUMOQR7SVC3A&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B004NITD9O (https://www.amazon.com/Worx-Electric-Chainsaw-Auto-Tension-Automatic/dp/B004NITD9O?tag=sawguy-20&SubscriptionId=AKIAJ7AVFUMOQR7SVC3A&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B004NITD9O)

I have been thinking I am going to spend my donations from the page on a billhook  http://www.leevalley.com/en/garden/page.aspx?p=10416&cat=2,42706,40718 (http://www.leevalley.com/en/garden/page.aspx?p=10416&cat=2,42706,40718)  since I think I may have need for it in the near future for coppice but need the experience of if its any more usefull than my Ontario Spec Tec machete wich is one of my favorite tools. Highly recomended. I ground the saw blade off it as it was useless and in the way for draw knifing or pounding on the back.
https://www.machetespecialists.com/product/ontario-10-inch-survival-rescue-machete/ (https://www.machetespecialists.com/product/ontario-10-inch-survival-rescue-machete/)
I recently started an experiment in hedge laying. I only did about 50 feet to get a feel for the job ... and it will be a hurculean, multy year job for sure. I also figured out  was doing it wrong, making it harder on myself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LizqU8OOVh0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LizqU8OOVh0)
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 05, 2018, 12:50:05 AM
Consistently, people were promoting the Worx MG303.1 14.5 amp in Best Buy for your buck category. That I think I can afford. (more expensive in cana'duh and no warranty)

Only $76 on Amazon.

Worx 16-Inch 14.5 Amp Electric Chainsaw with Auto-Tension, Chain Brake, and Automatic Oiling WG303.1 (https://smile.amazon.com/Worx-Electric-Chainsaw-Auto-Tension-Automatic/dp/B004NITD9O/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1543999418&sr=8-4&keywords=worx+electric+chainsaw)

(https://www.worx.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/w/g/wg303-base.1540567217.jpg)

Make sure you buy it from the SMILE.AMAZON.COM subweb and designate the Sustaining Universal Needs Foundation as the charity for Amazon to make a donation to.  :icon_sunny:

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 05, 2018, 01:03:41 AM
Ya. The electric Stihl has been at the top of my wish list for a few years. I dont see it happening though. Things are tight.

Shopping around, the Stihl actually comes in cheaper than the Makita.  Stihl @ $299, Makita (cordless 40V) @$389.  Most expensive corded I found was the Milwaulkee @ $389.

The Dewalt cordless comes in at a good price @ $150, but all my batts are Ryobi so I am pretty much locked in to their line.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 05, 2018, 05:45:49 AM
Consistently, people were promoting the Worx MG303.1 14.5 amp in Best Buy for your buck category. That I think I can afford. (more expensive in cana'duh and no warranty)

Only $76 on Amazon.

Worx 16-Inch 14.5 Amp Electric Chainsaw with Auto-Tension, Chain Brake, and Automatic Oiling WG303.1 (https://smile.amazon.com/Worx-Electric-Chainsaw-Auto-Tension-Automatic/dp/B004NITD9O/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1543999418&sr=8-4&keywords=worx+electric+chainsaw)

(https://www.worx.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/w/g/wg303-base.1540567217.jpg)

Make sure you buy it from the SMILE.AMAZON.COM subweb and designate the Sustaining Universal Needs Foundation as the charity for Amazon to make a donation to.  :icon_sunny:

RE

The Worx has a 14.5A motor, so it needs about 1800W to run.  You could use a 2000W Inverter hooked to your car batt and run it all day if you periodically run the car engine to keep the batt charged.  I would buy a smaller deep cycle RV Batt (I have one of those already anyhow) to run the inverter though. Pull it along in a little cart.  Run all the rest of your corded power tools this way also.

Ampeak makes a 2000W Inverter going for $139 on Amazon.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51UmgPuv10L._AC_AA200_.jpg)

RV Deep Cycle Battery (small, 26 AH) $61

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41o5EzcWYVL._AC_US218_.jpg)

You would get quite a few hours out of that batt before having to recharge it off the car, since the chainsaw doesn't run continuously, only in bursts.

Don't forget to use the smile.amazon.com website and designate Sustaining Universal Needs Foundation as your Charity!  :icon_sunny:

RE
Title: Highest Voltage yet in Cordless Power Tools
Post by: RE on December 05, 2018, 06:48:02 AM
WOW!  Kobalt is selling a chainsaw with an 80V system!!!  :o

(https://mobileimages.lowes.com/product/converted/841821/841821018962.jpg)

$199 without the batt.  Another $199 for the larger 3A batt.

(https://mobileimages.lowes.com/product/converted/841821/841821039370.jpg)

This system will also run a 21" Self Propelled Mower

(https://mobileimages.lowes.com/product/converted/841821/841821034108.jpg)

This runs $274 and comes with 2 2.5A Batts and the charger.  Better deal there.

Manufacturers have been consistenlty upping the voltage to get more power out of their motors.  80V is the highest I have seen so far.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on December 05, 2018, 09:14:09 AM
There's a reason for the high voltage batteries.  The saw you posted is a toy. Chainsaws are very energy intensive.

Not every piece of Chinese junk you find cheap is worth paying money for. Including scuba compressors, btw. LOL.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 05, 2018, 09:17:52 AM
There's a reason for the high voltage batteries.  The saw you posted is a toy. Chainsaws are very energy intensive.

Not every piece of Chinese junk you find cheap is worth paying money for. Including scuba compressors, btw. LOL.

I already said manufacturers are upping the voltage to get more power.  ::)

The 80V Kobalt is a "toy"?

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on December 05, 2018, 09:21:23 AM
No the other one is a toy. Junk.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on December 05, 2018, 09:22:13 AM
The Kobalt one looks like it might be good.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 05, 2018, 09:26:51 AM
There's a reason for the high voltage batteries.  The saw you posted is a toy. Chainsaws are very energy intensive.

Not every piece of Chinese junk you find cheap is worth paying money for. Including scuba compressors, btw. LOL.

The Husqvarna cordless only runs on 40V.  Is Husqvarna "junk" to you also?

Besides that, I suggested using a separat deep cycle batt and inverter to run a corded chainsaw.  You could run a Stihl with that set up.

Far as Chinese Junk is concerned, I have had very good results with Chinese Junk.  You can often buy 3 or 4 of them for the price of one expensive item in the same category, giving you spare parts.

You have rich man's disease.  You have to pay big money or you consider it junk.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 05, 2018, 09:30:17 AM
No the other one is a toy. Junk.

Which one?  The Milwaulkee Electric?  That costs more than a Stihl.  The Worx?  C5 said that one gets best ratings as most bang for the buck.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on December 05, 2018, 09:31:34 AM
DeWalt and Echo seem to be the best in this test of "homeowner grade" saws. In spite of the 80V battery, the Kobalt disn't stack up (the firewood) that well.

https://www.protoolreviews.com/tools/outdoor-equipment/best-battery-powered-chainsaw-shootout/29018/ (https://www.protoolreviews.com/tools/outdoor-equipment/best-battery-powered-chainsaw-shootout/29018/)
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on December 05, 2018, 09:41:08 AM
The Worx saw is something for cutting limbs, not for cutting trees.

You can get cheap gas saws that are fairly decent, as long as you don't need to use them all day long  like a pro. None of these battery saws will stand up to the kind of stuff I do, with the exception of maybe the Stihl or Husqvarna.

I'm looking at buying a Husqvarna gas saw now, so I don't think they'e junk. But until gas is a lot more hard to come by, I think battery saws are second best. They are very convenient. Maybe worth it for tree trimmers to use.

When gas isn't available, its quite likely batteries will soon be hard to come by too.

A lot of these armchair arguments just seem stupid to me.  How many chainsaws have you worn out?
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 05, 2018, 10:02:59 AM
The Worx saw is something for cutting limbs, not for cutting trees.

You can get cheap gas saws that are fairly decent, as long as you don't need to use them all day long  like a pro. None of these battery saws will stand up to the kind of stuff I do, with the exception of maybe the Stihl or Husqvarna.

I'm looking at buying a Husqvarna gas saw now, so I don't think they'e junk. But until gas is a lot more hard to come by, I think battery saws are second best. They are very convenient. Maybe worth it for tree trimmers to use.

When gas isn't available, its quite likely batteries will soon be hard to come by too.

A lot of these armchair arguments just seem stupid to me.  How many chainsaws have you worn out?

Recently?  None.  In the past I have run them all day.

You probably won't be able to get Li-I Batts when you also can't get gas.  But you can quite easily convert a batt operated tool to a corded one with a transformer, or if you wire your batts in series to match the voltage you wouldn't even need the transformer.

Gas saws do generate more horsepower, but you could up that also in an electric model by changing out the motor for a bigger model.  You'll never get the HP out of the same size electric as a gas motor of course, but how often do you really need all that cranking power?  Mostly these guys are cutting firewood from trees in the 3-5" diameter range, not CA Redwoods.

If you really want some power, hook up a saw with a belt drive or hydraulic drive to your tractor diesel and put it on a swing arm.  ::)

(https://greentec.eu/sites/default/files/styles/original/public/uploads/productphotos/lrs-1602-%284%29.jpg?itok=V4PLnNA7)

(http://flexxifinger.com/images/galleryImages/10094/large/0_600x450-76000-Limbinator-0-01_l.jpg)

(http://www.americanartifacts.com/smma/dragsaw/ds26.gif)

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 05, 2018, 12:50:26 PM
This unit is hydraulic and snaps quickly off and on your tractor.  It does 5000 rpm

(https://www.skidpro.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/tree_pov.jpg)


            Extra-long reach gives ability to trim limbs 18 20 off the ground
            Quickly and easily hooks up to a tractor or skid steer (low gpm requirement)
            20 Carlton utilizes common 81 link, 0.325 pitch, 0.63 gauge chain
            5,000 RPM motor delivers super-fast cutting & high productivity
            Self-oiling system utilizes carriers hydraulic oil for operator ease

icon-call Request a Price Listicon-usa

Special Features

    Quick hookup directly to your loader bucket with quick hitch bracket
    Extra-long reach can trim limbs 18-20 ft in the air on most carriers
    At 84 lbs., this unit is light & maneuverable to take on/off & store easily


https://skidpro.com/skid-steer-attachments/tree-saw/ (https://skidpro.com/skid-steer-attachments/tree-saw/)

That I suppose is a "toy" to you.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on December 05, 2018, 05:28:09 PM
The Worx saw is something for cutting limbs, not for cutting trees.

You can get cheap gas saws that are fairly decent, as long as you don't need to use them all day long  like a pro. None of these battery saws will stand up to the kind of stuff I do, with the exception of maybe the Stihl or Husqvarna.

I'm looking at buying a Husqvarna gas saw now, so I don't think they'e junk. But until gas is a lot more hard to come by, I think battery saws are second best. They are very convenient. Maybe worth it for tree trimmers to use.

When gas isn't available, its quite likely batteries will soon be hard to come by too.

A lot of these armchair arguments just seem stupid to me.  How many chainsaws have you worn out?

Recently?  None.  In the past I have run them all day.

You probably won't be able to get Li-I Batts when you also can't get gas.  But you can quite easily convert a batt operated tool to a corded one with a transformer, or if you wire your batts in series to match the voltage you wouldn't even need the transformer.

Gas saws do generate more horsepower, but you could up that also in an electric model by changing out the motor for a bigger model.  You'll never get the HP out of the same size electric as a gas motor of course, but how often do you really need all that cranking power?  Mostly these guys are cutting firewood from trees in the 3-5" diameter range, not CA Redwoods.

If you really want some power, hook up a saw with a belt drive or hydraulic drive to your tractor diesel and put it on a swing arm.  ::)

(https://greentec.eu/sites/default/files/styles/original/public/uploads/productphotos/lrs-1602-%284%29.jpg?itok=V4PLnNA7)

(http://flexxifinger.com/images/galleryImages/10094/large/0_600x450-76000-Limbinator-0-01_l.jpg)

(http://www.americanartifacts.com/smma/dragsaw/ds26.gif)

RE
I've run one of those tractor mounted arm choppers before. I have a high threshold for tool fear but that pushed it to the limit. It would be a good fit for my woodgas beast though. Tool steel blade sharpened in the field. You see some 60 years old on the original blade. They turn on a bushing that you grease. An eternal saw.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 05, 2018, 05:56:55 PM
I've run one of those tractor mounted arm choppers before. I have a high threshold for tool fear but that pushed it to the limit. It would be a good fit for my woodgas beast though. Tool steel blade sharpened in the field. You see some 60 years old on the original blade. They turn on a bushing that you grease. An eternal saw.

No guts, no glory. lol.

RE
Title: C5 on Combat Thought
Post by: cernunnos5 on December 06, 2018, 08:48:09 AM
I'm taking this in a different direction.

You folks know me. You know I push people away from warrior of the wasteland thinking because you have much more important things to get done first.

That said, I have stumbled into someone that has come out of no where... and is instantly getting millions of views within a couple days of posting.

And I want to pass him on to you. A shout out, as it were.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmjB7TUroyE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmjB7TUroyE)

In spite of being impressed, I avoid his videos.... for no good reason. (so I havent vetted him thouroughly)

The reason? Some of you know I live with PTSD (but am living with it well and doing better each year that passes)

The reason I bring this up is because I can take one look at him and say he has PTSD. And yet he is handling it awesomely... and focused it into doing good.

With one look I can tell you, No ifs, ands or buts, this man is a killer... yet he teaches men how to be better men. ( a check on paranoid warrior preppers)

I can only watch him when I am in a good space...or bucking up some bravery... but it shouldnt be an issue for others. Check him out. I think even Surly will want to keep an eye on him 
Title: Re: C5 on Combat Thought
Post by: RE on December 06, 2018, 08:53:13 AM

That said, I have stumbled into someone that has come out of no where... and is instantly getting millions of views within a couple days of posting.

Vid has 18,404 views since Dec 4th.  Which is very good, but not in the millions.

RE
Title: Re: C5 on Combat Thought
Post by: cernunnos5 on December 06, 2018, 09:23:14 AM

That said, I have stumbled into someone that has come out of no where... and is instantly getting millions of views within a couple days of posting.

Vid has 18,404 views since Dec 4th.  Which is very good, but not in the millions.

RE
My bad. I have an every day google overlord issue... because I whent mainstream wile in south amarica. They watch everything I click on and every couple hours switch me to Spanish, Espaniol.... though I speak no spanish. Mill, I guess, obviously means thousand. I switch it. They switch it back.

Still, worth watching... for the same reasons stated
Title: Re: C5 on Combat Thought
Post by: RE on December 06, 2018, 09:31:57 AM

That said, I have stumbled into someone that has come out of no where... and is instantly getting millions of views within a couple days of posting.

Vid has 18,404 views since Dec 4th.  Which is very good, but not in the millions.

RE
My bad. I have an every day google overlord issue... because I whent mainstream wile in south amarica. They watch everything I click on and every couple hours switch me to Spanish, Espaniol.... though I speak no spanish. Mill, I guess, obviously means thousand. I switch it. They switch it back.

Still, worth watching... for the same reasons stated

It was a good vid, but unlikely to make much impact on the general behavior of the Gestapo, which basically takes less time, distance and cover all the time as they get more and more "situations" to handle.  They remain relatively immune to any punishment, so there is little motivation to follow these rules.

RE
Title: Re: C5 on Combat Thought
Post by: Surly1 on December 06, 2018, 09:59:49 AM
I'm taking this in a different direction.

You folks know me. You know I push people away from warrior of the wasteland thinking because you have much more important things to get done first.

That said, I have stumbled into someone that has come out of no where... and is instantly getting millions of views within a couple days of posting.

And I want to pass him on to you. A shout out, as it were.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmjB7TUroyE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmjB7TUroyE)

In spite of being impressed, I avoid his videos.... for no good reason. (so I havent vetted him thouroughly)

The reason? Some of you know I live with PTSD (but am living with it well and doing better each year that passes)

The reason I bring this up is because I can take one look at him and say he has PTSD. And yet he is handling it awesomely... and focused it into doing good.

With one look I can tell you, No ifs, ands or buts, this man is a killer... yet he teaches men how to be better men. ( a check on paranoid warrior preppers)

I can only watch him when I am in a good space...or bucking up some bravery... but it shouldnt be an issue for others. Check him out. I think even Surly will want to keep an eye on him

Thanks for posting this. I had no idea about this guy (Justin King) or his website (The Fifth Column.) Apparently the "Beau" persona is what he adopts when he speaks on social issues using language that is accessible and directed at people who are swayed or convinced by conservative rhetoric. Pretty sneaky.

Here is a scrubbed-up Beau "saluting" the ascension of Justice Kavanaugh (the one who will provide the decisive vote ratifying the permanent Trump State of Emergency.)

http://www.youtube.com/v/cswLNYAcjlc
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on December 06, 2018, 10:06:39 AM
I probably should not have used that vid exclusively. I should have gone ,here, and let people scroll.

https://www.youtube.com/user/unvoicedproject/videos (https://www.youtube.com/user/unvoicedproject/videos)

Part of the reason the algorithm gods brought him to me is that in the past I watched every single prepper video everywhere. I am more selective now, as my brain can only handle so much poison.

I like that he very calmly and rationally covers each of the issues that militia type paranoid preppers get their tactical panties in a bunch over...

... and I like that he is not an armchair prepper. Like me, he can do the "lets whip out our WOOD for a size comparison" and do it in a way that communicates to people that I don"t think I am better than others....

....well.... maybe I am bad with that... because I realize I am in a street fight with ass holes and will go toe to toe asshole.... but I have a soft spot for clear, rational and friendly people that haven't embraced their inner asshole like me.

I pray, "God. Please make me the man that my dog thinks I am"
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 06, 2018, 10:13:59 AM
I have a soft spot for clear, rational and friendly people that haven't embraced their inner asshole like me.


There is no reason you can't be clear, rational and friendly and still be an asshole.  I am living proof of that.  ;D

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on December 06, 2018, 10:54:24 AM
The Worx saw is something for cutting limbs, not for cutting trees.

You can get cheap gas saws that are fairly decent, as long as you don't need to use them all day long  like a pro. None of these battery saws will stand up to the kind of stuff I do, with the exception of maybe the Stihl or Husqvarna.

I'm looking at buying a Husqvarna gas saw now, so I don't think they'e junk. But until gas is a lot more hard to come by, I think battery saws are second best. They are very convenient. Maybe worth it for tree trimmers to use.

When gas isn't available, its quite likely batteries will soon be hard to come by too.

A lot of these armchair arguments just seem stupid to me.  How many chainsaws have you worn out?

Recently?  None.  In the past I have run them all day.

You probably won't be able to get Li-I Batts when you also can't get gas.  But you can quite easily convert a batt operated tool to a corded one with a transformer, or if you wire your batts in series to match the voltage you wouldn't even need the transformer.

Gas saws do generate more horsepower, but you could up that also in an electric model by changing out the motor for a bigger model.  You'll never get the HP out of the same size electric as a gas motor of course, but how often do you really need all that cranking power?  Mostly these guys are cutting firewood from trees in the 3-5" diameter range, not CA Redwoods.

If you really want some power, hook up a saw with a belt drive or hydraulic drive to your tractor diesel and put it on a swing arm.  ::)

(https://greentec.eu/sites/default/files/styles/original/public/uploads/productphotos/lrs-1602-%284%29.jpg?itok=V4PLnNA7)

(http://flexxifinger.com/images/galleryImages/10094/large/0_600x450-76000-Limbinator-0-01_l.jpg)

(http://www.americanartifacts.com/smma/dragsaw/ds26.gif)

RE
I've run one of those tractor mounted arm choppers before. I have a high threshold for tool fear but that pushed it to the limit. It would be a good fit for my woodgas beast though. Tool steel blade sharpened in the field. You see some 60 years old on the original blade. They turn on a bushing that you grease. An eternal saw.

Before I bought my sawmill, I looked at all of that old stuff and talked to the sawmill buffs who use it. I was strongly advised not to go there. My Timber Champ has a zone you have to stay out of, because it can toss logs for 20 feet. But those old mills are worse. Got to keep the blades sharp, no matter what you use, and learn the safety protocols for whatever you use.

My mother's father was killed back in 1930, by a large sapling that smacked his skull  when the tree they were felling (with a two-man crosscut) hit the smaller tree a glancing blow. Not the best time to die and leave 5 kids.

My father's brother also took a header, and after that I never saw him use a chainsaw without a hard hat on. Some people are better at learning lessons than others.

My old man was a hoss with a chainsaw. He used an old Poulan with a 20 inch bow (no bar saw, he didn't like 'em). In the cut-over East Texas woods the bow was better for most things. He could cut firewood way faster than I could pick it up and load in the truck.

Our house was always so cold in the morning. No banked coals in an airtight. The ashes in our old potbelly were cold before morning. I hated building fires, and still don't love it. Ask RE.

I would like to have a shingle mill. That's another thing I could make out of all the juniper, that would be useful, if i had the saw. SOB's are hard to find, and people want a fortune for 'em.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Surly1 on December 06, 2018, 11:15:01 AM
I have a soft spot for clear, rational and friendly people that haven't embraced their inner asshole like me.


There is no reason you can't be clear, rational and friendly and still be an asshole.  I am living proof of that.  ;D

RE

And he comes with references.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Surly1 on December 06, 2018, 11:17:33 AM
I probably should not have used that vid exclusively. I should have gone ,here, and let people scroll.

https://www.youtube.com/user/unvoicedproject/videos (https://www.youtube.com/user/unvoicedproject/videos)

Part of the reason the algorithm gods brought him to me is that in the past I watched every single prepper video everywhere. I am more selective now, as my brain can only handle so much poison.

I like that he very calmly and rationally covers each of the issues that militia type paranoid preppers get their tactical panties in a bunch over...

... and I like that he is not an armchair prepper. Like me, he can do the "lets whip out our WOOD for a size comparison" and do it in a way that communicates to people that I don"t think I am better than others....

....well.... maybe I am bad with that... because I realize I am in a street fight with ass holes and will go toe to toe asshole.... but I have a soft spot for clear, rational and friendly people that haven't embraced their inner asshole like me.

I pray, "God. Please make me the man that my dog thinks I am"

For years, I prayed, "Dear Lord, let me be the man my daughter thinks I am," so you have a LOT of company in that regard.

IN re Beau, this is my first exposure to him, but I was impressed by first contact.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Surly1 on December 06, 2018, 11:22:07 AM
//
If you really want some power, hook up a saw with a belt drive or hydraulic drive to your tractor diesel and put it on a swing arm.  ::)

(https://greentec.eu/sites/default/files/styles/original/public/uploads/productphotos/lrs-1602-%284%29.jpg?itok=V4PLnNA7)

(http://flexxifinger.com/images/galleryImages/10094/large/0_600x450-76000-Limbinator-0-01_l.jpg)

(http://www.americanartifacts.com/smma/dragsaw/ds26.gif)[/center]

RE
I've run one of those tractor mounted arm choppers before. I have a high threshold for tool fear but that pushed it to the limit. It would be a good fit for my woodgas beast though. Tool steel blade sharpened in the field. You see some 60 years old on the original blade. They turn on a bushing that you grease. An eternal saw.

Before I bought my sawmill, I looked at all of that old stuff and talked to the sawmill buffs who use it. I was strongly advised not to go there. My Timber Champ has a zone you have to stay out of, because it can toss logs for 20 feet. But those old mills are worse. Got to keep the blades sharp, no matter what you use, and learn the safety protocols for whatever you use.

My mother's father was killed back in 1930, by a large sapling that smacked his skull  when the tree they were felling (with a two-man crosscut) hit the smaller tree a glancing blow. Not the best time to die and leave 5 kids.

My father's brother also took a header, and after that I never saw him use a chainsaw without a hard hat on. Some people are better at learning lessons than others.

My old man was a hoss with a chainsaw. He used an old Poulan with a 20 inch bow (no bar saw, he didn't like 'em). In the cut-over East Texas woods the bow was better for most things. He could cut firewood way faster than I could pick it up and load in the truck.

Our house was always so cold in the morning. No banked coals in an airtight. The ashes in our old potbelly were cold before morning. I hated building fires, and still don't love it. Ask RE.

I would like to have  shingle mill. That's another thing I could make out of all the juniper, that would be useful, if i had the saw. SOB's are hard to find, and people want fortune for 'em.

I have absolutely nothing useful to contribute, since if I were to engage this tractor-operated sawmill they'd be calling me "lefty" in 15 minutes. But I have REALLY enjoyed this discussion.
Just FYI.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on December 06, 2018, 12:20:38 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/lu2Ezj__hLE&fs=1
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 06, 2018, 12:32:16 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/lu2Ezj__hLE&fs=1

Forget the helmet, he's not even wearing goggles!

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 06, 2018, 12:34:56 PM
I have a soft spot for clear, rational and friendly people that haven't embraced their inner asshole like me.


There is no reason you can't be clear, rational and friendly and still be an asshole.  I am living proof of that.  ;D

RE

And he comes with references.

It's a gift.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on December 06, 2018, 12:50:14 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/lu2Ezj__hLE&fs=1
That shingle mill is a nice piece of heavy metal... For just occasional jobs I think you could do the same with a band saw mill and a table saw jig. Am i right it seems its doing flat shingle so no taper? I like the reasawn ones myself. We refer to the tapered ones as shingles and the flat stock ones as shakes here.  About your juniper have you tried burning it in a modern airtight? I burn tamarack, pine, and sappy spruce all the time and if you can control you combustion air you set the burn rate. Well dried wood in a hot fire with secondary combustion and an insulated chimney should not deposit tars regardless of species.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on December 06, 2018, 01:10:45 PM
I have not tried to burn the juniper lately. I don't currently have an airtight stove, for one thing.  I'm sure you are correct, and that it can be burned safely if you can control the combustion, and the wood is dry. I was just always told not to use it.

Here's an old mill just like mine. Three blades, and it edges and cuts at the same time. The teeth can be replaced instead of the entire blade.

Very similar to the Mobile Dimension sawmill, which is not surprising since they were designed by the same guy.

http://www.youtube.com/v/CYYD0eXM6mE&fs=1
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 06, 2018, 01:13:14 PM
That shingle mill is a nice piece of heavy metal...

Another nice piece of Heavy Metal.  ;D

http://www.youtube.com/v/GjvGonotgLU

RE
Title: Re: C5 on Combat Thought
Post by: Eddie on December 06, 2018, 02:27:28 PM
I'm taking this in a different direction.

You folks know me. You know I push people away from warrior of the wasteland thinking because you have much more important things to get done first.

That said, I have stumbled into someone that has come out of no where... and is instantly getting millions of views within a couple days of posting.

And I want to pass him on to you. A shout out, as it were.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmjB7TUroyE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmjB7TUroyE)

In spite of being impressed, I avoid his videos.... for no good reason. (so I havent vetted him thouroughly)

The reason? Some of you know I live with PTSD (but am living with it well and doing better each year that passes)

The reason I bring this up is because I can take one look at him and say he has PTSD. And yet he is handling it awesomely... and focused it into doing good.

With one look I can tell you, No ifs, ands or buts, this man is a killer... yet he teaches men how to be better men. ( a check on paranoid warrior preppers)

I can only watch him when I am in a good space...or bucking up some bravery... but it shouldnt be an issue for others. Check him out. I think even Surly will want to keep an eye on him

Proof that all Southerners aren't neo-Nazis. I made a response to this earlier but maybe it didn't post. My internet at work sucks these days.

Seems like a good guy. My first thought...I wondered if he was somebody my little  brother knows. He hangs out with people like that. Thanks for posting. I'll watch him more later when I have time..

Title: Re: C5 on Combat Thought
Post by: RE on December 06, 2018, 03:31:04 PM

Proof that all Southerners aren't neo-Nazis

Nobody accused all Southerners of being neo-Nazis.  Just the majority of Texas voters.  ::)

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on December 06, 2018, 05:43:45 PM
I have not tried to burn the juniper lately. I don't currently have an airtight stove, for one thing.  I'm sure you are correct, and that it can be burned safely if you can control the combustion, and the wood is dry. I was just always told not to use it.

Here's an old mill just like mine. Three blades, and it edges and cuts at the same time. The teeth can be replaced instead of the entire blade.

Very similar to the Mobile Dimension sawmill, which is not surprising since they were designed by the same guy.

http://www.youtube.com/v/CYYD0eXM6mE&fs=1
pretty... some day when I buy the wood lot.
Title: C5 Walks into a Diner... 2019 Predictions
Post by: cernunnos5 on December 18, 2018, 10:13:24 AM
My new one is now up. My 2019 predictions

https://darkgreenmountainsurvivalresearchcentre.wordpress.com/2018/12/18/c5-the-anti-clauses-2019-predictions-four-more-beers/
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner... 2019 Predictions
Post by: RE on December 18, 2018, 10:23:55 AM
My new one is now up. My 2019 predictions

https://darkgreenmountainsurvivalresearchcentre.wordpress.com/2018/12/18/c5-the-anti-clauses-2019-predictions-four-more-beers/

Making Collapse Predictions is always Risky Bizness.  Just ask Kunstler.  ::)

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: azozeo on December 18, 2018, 10:31:10 AM
The Steve Austin vs. C5 on a bad hair day vid won't load. That was slated to be the hi-lite  :icon_sunny: of my day.

Throw $20 canuck fiats at the predicts with a book maker & get back with us. I've got lumber earmarked for your crucifixion come next Oct.
When your shit winds up in the weeds, Oh Canada hemp that is  :icon_mrgreen:

Thanks for the warnings, keep comin' back .....
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on December 18, 2018, 12:17:55 PM
My predictions about your predictions.

2019 will  involve crashing financial markets. However, perhaps unfortunately, they will not go away.  My advice? Hold out until the 30 year US Treasury Bond yield  is so high it can't possibly go any higher, and then buy it. Sell it when the yield drops back to near zero.

Easy money.  Then put half in cryptos, and the other half in gold and silver.

The internet? It won't end....just the part where it was free and open and everybody got everything at the same speed. That part will change. The real end is some way off. You might live to see it, but it won''t be in 2019, or even 2025.

I think you're spot on about the climate. No denier, me.

In fact, it isn't so much that you're wrong on the first two points, but I just don't think we're that close. And I look for at least one more reboot on the financial system. This time they're more ready than last time. Everybody expects a total meltdown, so that makes it less likely, not more likely.

But hey, you got a pair, making predictions on the Diner. We LOVE predictions, especially when it goes a different way.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 18, 2018, 12:29:15 PM
I just don't think we're that close. .

Of course not.  You have Hopium your investments in Crypto will make you a Master of the Universe before it all crashes.  Being just $RICH$ 🤑 is not enough for you.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on December 18, 2018, 01:20:08 PM
Wrong.

 I make my best determination about what is most likely to happen, and I act with the courage of my convictions. I filter out the stupid hype and bullshit, and work my plan as long as it works.

You have it ass-backwards.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner... 2019 Predictions
Post by: Surly1 on December 18, 2018, 01:41:17 PM
My new one is now up. My 2019 predictions

https://darkgreenmountainsurvivalresearchcentre.wordpress.com/2018/12/18/c5-the-anti-clauses-2019-predictions-four-more-beers/

That there is a balls-out high wire act, my friend.

The end of growth could be the financial equivalent of the big Bang!
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 18, 2018, 02:21:18 PM
Wrong.

 I make my best determination about what is most likely to happen, and I act with the courage of my convictions. I filter out the stupid hype and bullshit, and work my plan as long as it works.

You have it ass-backwards.

"With a bit of luck, I'll go from barely rich to really filthy stinkin' rich. That would be nice." -Eddie

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on December 18, 2018, 02:29:04 PM
I was just fucking with you, because, let's face it, you were fucking with me.

But I'm happy to make enough money to maybe live out my old age in relative comfort, though. I have no problem with improving my financial statement.

Last I checked, you like to spend money as much as the next guy....just sayin'.

Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 18, 2018, 02:39:37 PM
Last I checked, you like to spend money as much as the next guy....just sayin'.

I spend my money (actually Soros' money) in the world of my Imagination.  IRL, I am a very penurious person who lives on less than $20K year, and this is quite enough.

I am gifted with a very lively imaginative world.  Really, I don't need anything to be real at all.  It's all the same to me, what I imagine and what is "real".  The difference of course is that in the world of my imagination, I don't need to rip off other people to get rich.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on December 18, 2018, 02:49:50 PM
I don't rip people off. I take care of other people.

 That line of bullshit is something you and your vivid imagination came up with to make you feel good about trashing me. I'm sure you can sell that crap to AG and few other self-righteous assholes, but anybody who knows me.....really knows better. You know better. Give it a fuckin' rest.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 18, 2018, 03:19:20 PM
I don't rip people off. I take care of other people.

 That line of bullshit is something you and your vivid imagination came up with to make you feel good about trashing me. I'm sure you can sell that crap to AG and few other self-righteous assholes, but anybody who knows me.....really knows better. You know better. Give it a fuckin' rest.

Eddie, you are a good guy.  That is why we are friends.

That doesn't obviate the fact you work inside a criminal racket, a GSE (Goobermint Sponsored Enterprise) protected by Da Goobermint to keep the prices high.  It's a big Conduit Scheme.  Easily visible if you go down to Mexico to have your teeth worked on for 10 Cents on the Dollar.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Surly1 on December 18, 2018, 04:42:56 PM
I don't rip people off. I take care of other people.

 That line of bullshit is something you and your vivid imagination came up with to make you feel good about trashing me. I'm sure you can sell that crap to AG and few other self-righteous assholes, but anybody who knows me.....really knows better. You know better. Give it a fuckin' rest.

Eddie, you are a good guy.  That is why we are friends.

That doesn't obviate the fact you work inside a criminal racket, a GSE (Goobermint Sponsored Enterprise) protected by Da Goobermint to keep the prices high.  It's a big Conduit Scheme.  Easily visible if you go down to Mexico to have your teeth worked on for 10 Cents on the Dollar.

RE

Ah, fuck...

When Ashvin tried to wear my ass out about why I don't change my life, and do any number of quixotic things to immiserate myself and my family to no visible effect, part of the answer has always been that it's like spitting into the ocean. But ideologues don't care about details.

We all come of age in a society with a given set of rules, and we try to make some sort of living within those rules as best we can. You did it, I've done it and so has our dentist friend. It puts my teeth on edge when you wear his ass out like this. Eddie has done more to prepare for a post-collapse future than most zip codes full of people. He's full of hard-won knowledge, collected the hard way, for which he has often paid retail, plus plus.

I'm a wannabe bolshevik bit I begrudge the man nothing. Her had done more for others in a direct way, alleviated more pain and touched more lives than most of us totaled up together. Feel free to give that "conduit scheme" a rest. If he were part of some wealth-funneling group of thieves it would be one thing. But from all accounts he's kicking' it old skool.

So take a deep breath. Not that Eddie needs a lawyer.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 18, 2018, 04:55:35 PM
So take a deep breath. Not that Eddie needs a lawyer.

He doesn't need a lawyer, and if he were tried under the current set of laws he would be found innocent.  I just try to point out the criminal nature of such things, which many others have done before me.  Probably Al Capone said it best though.

(http://thumby.wisdomtoinspire.com/thumbs/lrg/41IMTNCi.jpg)

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Surly1 on December 18, 2018, 05:23:39 PM
So take a deep breath. Not that Eddie needs a lawyer.

He doesn't need a lawyer, and if he were tried under the current set of laws he would be found innocent.  I just try to point out the criminal nature of such things, which many others have done before me.  Probably Al Capone said it best though.

(http://thumby.wisdomtoinspire.com/thumbs/lrg/41IMTNCi.jpg)

RE

So did Smedley Butler, using other words. So has John Perkins, Chris Hedges, and plenty of other observers with whom we'd likely all agree.
Empire corrupts.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on December 18, 2018, 05:35:02 PM
Chris Hedges is worth 19 million dollars. Yeah....really.




Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 19, 2018, 03:46:01 AM
Chris Hedges is worth 19 million dollars. Yeah....really.

Actually, $10M according to networthpost.org

https://networthpost.org/net-worth/chris-hedges-net-worth/

Christopher Lynn Hedges net worth is
$10 Million
Christopher Lynn Hedges Wiki: Salary, Married, Wedding, Spouse, Family
Christopher Lynn "Chris" Hedges (born September 18, 1956) is an American Presbyterian minister, journalist (specializing in American politics and society), activist and humanitarian. Hedges is also known as the best-selling author of several books including War Is a Force That Gives Us Meaning (2002)a finalist for the National Book Critics Circle Award for NonfictionEmpire of Illusion: The End of Literacy and the Triumph of Spectacle (2009), Death of the Liberal Class (2010) and his most recent New York Times best seller, written with the cartoonist Joe Sacco, Days of Destruction, Days of Revolt (2012).Hedges is currently a columnist for the progressive news and commentary website Truthdig, a senior fellow at The Nation Institute in New York City, and a contributing author for OpEdNews. He spent nearly two decades as a foreign correspondent in Central America, the Middle East, Africa and the Balkans. He has reported from more than fifty countries, and has worked for the Christian Science Monitor, NPR, the Dallas Morning News, and the New York Times, where he was a foreign correspondent for fifteen years (19902005).In 2002, Hedges was part of a group of eight reporters at the New York Times awarded the Pulitzer Prize for the paper's coverage of global terrorism. He also received the Amnesty International Global Award for Human Rights Journalism in 2002. He has taught at Columbia University, New York University, Princeton University and the University of Toronto. He currently teaches prisoners at a maximum-security prison in New Jersey. He writes a weekly column on Mondays for Truthdig and authored what the New York Times described as "a call to arms" for the first issue of the Occupied Wall Street Journal, a newspaper associated with the Occupy Wall Street protests in Zuccotti Park, New York City. He is a political activist who has described himself as a socialist and as an anarchist.On October 5, 2014, Chris Hedges was ordained a minister within the Presbyterian Church and installed as Associate Pastor at the Second Presbyterian Church Elizabeth in Elizabeth New Jersey, after having been rejected for ordination by a Presbyterian ordination committee thirty years prior. At that time, the committee deemed Hedges' declared call to journalism to be an invalid call.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on December 19, 2018, 04:18:10 AM
Chris Hedges is worth 19 million dollars. Yeah....really.

Actually, $10M according to networthpost.org

https://networthpost.org/net-worth/chris-hedges-net-worth/

Christopher Lynn Hedges net worth is
$10 Million
Christopher Lynn Hedges Wiki: Salary, Married, Wedding, Spouse, Family
Christopher Lynn "Chris" Hedges (born September 18, 1956) is an American Presbyterian minister, journalist (specializing in American politics and society), activist and humanitarian. Hedges is also known as the best-selling author of several books including War Is a Force That Gives Us Meaning (2002)a finalist for the National Book Critics Circle Award for NonfictionEmpire of Illusion: The End of Literacy and the Triumph of Spectacle (2009), Death of the Liberal Class (2010) and his most recent New York Times best seller, written with the cartoonist Joe Sacco, Days of Destruction, Days of Revolt (2012).Hedges is currently a columnist for the progressive news and commentary website Truthdig, a senior fellow at The Nation Institute in New York City, and a contributing author for OpEdNews. He spent nearly two decades as a foreign correspondent in Central America, the Middle East, Africa and the Balkans. He has reported from more than fifty countries, and has worked for the Christian Science Monitor, NPR, the Dallas Morning News, and the New York Times, where he was a foreign correspondent for fifteen years (19902005).In 2002, Hedges was part of a group of eight reporters at the New York Times awarded the Pulitzer Prize for the paper's coverage of global terrorism. He also received the Amnesty International Global Award for Human Rights Journalism in 2002. He has taught at Columbia University, New York University, Princeton University and the University of Toronto. He currently teaches prisoners at a maximum-security prison in New Jersey. He writes a weekly column on Mondays for Truthdig and authored what the New York Times described as "a call to arms" for the first issue of the Occupied Wall Street Journal, a newspaper associated with the Occupy Wall Street protests in Zuccotti Park, New York City. He is a political activist who has described himself as a socialist and as an anarchist.On October 5, 2014, Chris Hedges was ordained a minister within the Presbyterian Church and installed as Associate Pastor at the Second Presbyterian Church Elizabeth in Elizabeth New Jersey, after having been rejected for ordination by a Presbyterian ordination committee thirty years prior. At that time, the committee deemed Hedges' declared call to journalism to be an invalid call.


I read 19 million on another site, and 23 on yet another. I doubt any of these numbers are really accurate...but the fact remains that he is a rich guy. Really rich.

The point is that he can afford to preach socialism. He's a journalist and a minister, but he has millions in the bank, presumably from his many books.

So....just keep a little perspective, Leon.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on December 19, 2018, 04:20:56 AM
Screen Shot 2018 12 19 at 6 19 41 AM
Screen Shot 2018 12 19 at 6 19 41 AM
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on December 19, 2018, 04:23:29 AM
Screen Shot 2018 12 19 at 6 21 22 AM
Screen Shot 2018 12 19 at 6 21 22 AM
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on December 19, 2018, 04:25:41 AM
Screen Shot 2018 12 19 at 6 23 55 AM
Screen Shot 2018 12 19 at 6 23 55 AM
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 19, 2018, 04:31:36 AM
Screen Shot 2018 12 19 at 6 21 22 AM
Screen Shot 2018 12 19 at 6 21 22 AM

Bernie is only worth $2M?  Jeez, you got him beat at least.  lol.

Nobody's perfect of course, except Jesus Christ maybe who is long since dead.  In the case of CH, at least he is using his money to benefit humanity.  He is free to write as he wishes and bring the message of Collapse to millions of readers.  There are ameliorating circumstances involved here.  If you use your money for the benefit of mankind, then it's not necessarily a bad thing as long as money rules the world, which it currently does.

RE
Title: Jesus Christ was Rich 🤑
Post by: RE on December 19, 2018, 04:55:45 AM
Speaking of JC, even He was $RICH$ 🤑.  He never had to worry about having enough to eat.  He could multiply Loaves of Bread & Fishies to feed thousands of Homo Saps at a Convocation at will.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cb/6a/47/cb6a473ade8675d728d97b8514699f07.jpg)
Jesus makes Dinner for 5000

He did try with his money to benefit Humanity, although of course it didn't work out too great in the long run.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on December 19, 2018, 05:48:52 AM
I'm neck and neck with Bernie and hoping to catch up with Noam Chomsky if I live as long as he has.

My points, which you always manage to miss, are (a) that 2 million bucks is not much money these days...and (b) that the people most would-be socialists look up to as being the good guys are not poor people.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 19, 2018, 06:10:39 AM
I'm neck and neck with Bernie and hoping to catch up with Noam Chomsky if I live as long as he has.

My points, which you always manage to miss, are (a) that 2 million bucks is not much money these days...

It would be a shit load of money for me.  I could set up a small SUN☼ Community up here in Alaska with that kind of money.  Only $109K for these 35 Acres in Willow.  Plenty of money left over to build some Cabins and a communal Longhouse or Monolithic Dome.

(https://images1.loopnet.com/i2/ROCvG-I_ZqSzIV87bVuASatq0GfUPucoPpLjgIcKreg/112/image.jpg)

(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/523d2202e4b0b15602e4d72c/t/5805209bf7e0abd6e8f2add8/1476731045995/aussiehouse.jpg)

Or I could buy this nice 53' Motorsailer Seastead for $200K with lots of money left over for new electronics and paying for dock space:

(http://media.yatco.com/images/vessels2/207/207324/large_1030559.jpg?rev=1)


Quote
(b) that the people most would-be socialists look up to as being the good guys are not poor people.

Of course they aren't Silly Rabbit!  Poor People get no publicity!  If I had $2M, I could buy Promotional Ads on Zero Hedge and Reddit and the Diner would be all over the Map!  ::)

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on December 19, 2018, 07:19:35 AM
Would you two just kiss already ;)

Thanks for the comments. I just thought I would share a little ditty.

After posting that one, someone unsubscribed. No biggy. It happens all the time after articles. It makes me laugh, knowing I hit a nerve or challenged an un acknowledged prejudiced. That I had done my job. I only with I could be there to see what particular line I wrote that triggered their apoplexy.

What I have learned about playing the Grinch for a bunch of years, longer than the blog, is that people get violently angry when I mess with their Christmas. It's amazing how much people NEED christmas and how they need it to be unsullied.

Don't mess with peoples Santa. Peace on earth be damned. Thems fighting words.

Then again.... it might have been the porn comment and "I'm pulling for you". :evil4: ;D

Just my thoughts of the day
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Surly1 on December 19, 2018, 07:43:06 AM
Would you two just kiss already ;)

Thanks for the comments. I just thought I would share a little ditty.

After posting that one, someone unsubscribed. No biggy. It happens all the time after articles. It makes me laugh, knowing I hit a nerve or challenged an un acknowledged prejudiced. That I had done my job. I only with I could be there to see what particular line I wrote that triggered their apoplexy.

What I have learned about playing the Grinch for a bunch of years, longer than the blog, is that people get violently angry when I mess with their Christmas. It's amazing how much people NEED christmas and how they need it to be unsullied.

Don't mess with peoples Santa. Peace on earth be damned. Thems fighting words.

Then again.... it might have been the porn comment and "I'm pulling for you". :evil4: ;D

Just my thoughts of the day

When you say, "I'm pulling for you," the reader at least can know hew's in good hands.
 :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on December 19, 2018, 08:15:33 AM
Dirty filthy Canadian porn mongering doomsday preppers.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on December 19, 2018, 08:36:23 AM
Probably smoke that dope too. 

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dirFpZ4W828/TtvsYULizAI/AAAAAAAAEQk/nSnnf4JhRUQ/s400/frank01.gif)
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: K-Dog on December 19, 2018, 08:46:34 AM
Dirty filthy Canadian porn mongering doomsday preppers.

Yes, pretty twisted he is.

Quote
Im going to miss porn. Thanks for sharing. Im a richer man today. I cant go back to tattered Playboy magazines. I just cant do it.

I wont miss it.  Most of the time it is about the wrong hole and I'm not into that.  It is not only not a good fit for me, the people doing it are not very good at what they do.  It lacks the human warmth and joy of the real thing.  An old Playboy was more interesting and sometimes there were good things to read.

Once porn not having any plot or theme made sense.  Those days are long gone and now it is an empty wasteland without the joys and sorrows of real human contact.

If the internet were gone a short wave connected Diner could be possible.  It would transmit as a slow scanned video signal and a receiver would listen to digital traffic coming in on another receiver.  Comment packets would come in on the receiver and then be sent to the blog/forum.  We would all have to be smart enough to use radio equipment. 
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on December 19, 2018, 09:10:32 AM
I actually studied for the HAM test and learned the basic bs they teach, much of which I'd known and forgotten from school....I was all ready to test out, and then let it slide. That was before the Harbin fire, because I remember I was studying while I was  there....maybe 2014.

I really should get that done.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 19, 2018, 09:21:23 AM
I wont miss it.  Most of the time it is about the wrong hole and I'm not into that.  It is not only not a good fit for me, the people doing it are not very good at what they do.  It lacks the human warmth and joy of the real thing.  An old Playboy was more interesting and sometimes there were good things to read.

Once porn not having any plot or theme made sense.  Those days are long gone and now it is an empty wasteland without the joys and sorrows of real human contact.

I never found porn to be the least bit interesting.  I went to a couple porn films in my teens on 42nd St in NY Shity.  They didn't check IDs, if you had $5 you were IN!  I was bored to tears and grossed out, and on both occasions walked out of the theater after about 15 minutes watching it.  It held absolutely no interest for me.

The static pictures in Playboy and Penthouse did better at giving me a Woody, but I still preferred most the Penthouse "letters" which described various sexual fantasies being played out.

Quote
If the internet were gone a short wave connected Diner could be possible.  It would transmit as a slow scanned video signal and a receiver would listen to digital traffic coming in on another receiver.  Comment packets would come in on the receiver and then be sent to the blog/forum.  We would all have to be smart enough to use radio equipment.

In my Cyber World Diner Menu fantasy life,  Soros bought me the HAM radio and server in a suitcase you need for this task.  I actually could afford this IRL too.  I bet you could put together something cheaper than I can buy it commercially though.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: K-Dog on December 19, 2018, 09:35:07 AM
Yes, that first pitch black theater.  I had to go through the whole loop before I got bored.  Then it was hard to move.  The weirdest thing was a 3-D film that made the rounds back then.  Nothing sensual about a naked thirty foot tall woman in 3-D glasses tinged with red and blue.  Nothing at all, at least not for me.

If I was an action figure I'd be one bored doll.  More than twice as tall as I am, is a turnoff for me.

(https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/3e32a2e0-8d6f-434f-8356-4b0bfbab3424_1.16d7124b90ae982370af0ef74f46df73.jpeg?odnHeight=450&odnWidth=450&odnBg=FFFFFF)
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on December 19, 2018, 09:39:52 AM
Porn is a cottage industry now. Another internet job in the gig economy.

As I get older it's harder for me to get a good fantasy going about sex with anyone. Too much reality. Reality based people know porn isn't real. Even good quality porn, which is very rare, is fake,

And if you aren't some exceptionally physically attractive person yourself, you know that supermodels aren't lining up to jump into bed with you. Sexual excitement comes from imagining that some desirable (and perhaps new) partner is interested in getting you in the sack. Most of the time, for most people, that doesn't happen a lot.

I have a partner who is very fit and good-looking and interested in sex. But for high emo guys like me, it's easy to let resentment get in the way. I'm not against porn in principle, but it can be a crutch that men use to avoid real intimacy. If it is, that's harmful.

It looks like a lot of young guys now can't get laid, and so porn is all they've got. Or porn is easier than trying to find a real partner. Sad. That is just flat sad.



Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 19, 2018, 09:55:22 AM
Porn is a cottage industry now. Another internet job in the gig economy.

As I get older it's harder for me to get a good fantasy going about sex with anyone. Too much reality. Reality based people know porn isn't real. Even good quality porn, which is very rare, is fake,

And if you aren't some exceptionally physically attractive person yourself, you know that supermodels aren't lining up to jump into bed with you. Sexual excitement comes from imagining that some desirable (and perhaps new) partner is interested in getting you in the sack. Most of the time, for most people, that doesn't happen a lot.

I have a partner who is very fit and good-looking and interested in sex. But for high emo guys like me, it's easy to let resentment get in the way. I'm not against porn in principle, but it can be a crutch that men use to avoid real intimacy. If it is, that's harmful.

It looks like a lot of young guys now can't get laid, and so porn is all they've got. Or porn is easier than trying to find a real partner. Sad. That is just flat sad.

Fit and good looking doesn't do it for me, it never did even when I was pumping half the dancers in Twyla Tharp's dance company.  They also had to be young, reasonably able to at least fake an orgasm and also at least fake an interest in what I would talk about over dinner.  If they could contribute something worthwhile to the conversation that was a bonus, but as long as they nodded at the right times and looked at me with adoring eyes and didn't slobber the very expensive dinners I was buying I was IN LOVE 😍, at least for the night anyhow.  Oh, they had to be able to handle a pair of Chopsticks well also for dinner, this was important in not slobbering the food offered up down in Chinatown.

Realizing this fact of life made it much EZier for me to become a Monast.  I wouldn't enjoy sex with anyone who would have sex with me, unless i paid a shit load of money for it and I'd rather spend what I have on Preps.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: azozeo on December 19, 2018, 12:36:16 PM
So take a deep breath. Not that Eddie needs a lawyer.

He doesn't need a lawyer, and if he were tried under the current set of laws he would be found innocent.  I just try to point out the criminal nature of such things, which many others have done before me.  Probably Al Capone said it best though.

(http://thumby.wisdomtoinspire.com/thumbs/lrg/41IMTNCi.jpg)

RE

So did Smedley Butler, using other words. So has John Perkins, Chris Hedges, and plenty of other observers with whom we'd likely all agree.
Empire corrupts.

A parasitic corruption, ongoing, just different mobs running the show.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 19, 2018, 12:41:57 PM
So take a deep breath. Not that Eddie needs a lawyer.

He doesn't need a lawyer, and if he were tried under the current set of laws he would be found innocent.  I just try to point out the criminal nature of such things, which many others have done before me.  Probably Al Capone said it best though.

(http://thumby.wisdomtoinspire.com/thumbs/lrg/41IMTNCi.jpg)

RE

So did Smedley Butler, using other words. So has John Perkins, Chris Hedges, and plenty of other observers with whom we'd likely all agree.
Empire corrupts.

A parasitic corruption, ongoing, just different mobs running the show.

True enough, but some Diners don't even realize they are part of a parasitic mob.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: jdwheeler42 on December 19, 2018, 05:18:38 PM
True enough, but some Diners don't even realize they are part of a parasitic mob.
Well, I recognize that a flat income tax would put me out of a job, but I would welcome the change.
Title: C5 Walks into a Diner... Predator Holiday Special
Post by: cernunnos5 on December 21, 2018, 06:14:49 PM
I found this today and thought I would share... just in case any one wants to send it as a holiday greeting card

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVrRjt69lhU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVrRjt69lhU)
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner... Predator Holiday Special
Post by: Nearingsfault on December 21, 2018, 07:05:51 PM
I found this today and thought I would share... just in case any one wants to send it as a holiday greeting card

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVrRjt69lhU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVrRjt69lhU)
happy solstice you filthy animal
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner... Predator Holiday Special
Post by: cernunnos5 on December 21, 2018, 08:24:16 PM
I found this today and thought I would share... just in case any one wants to send it as a holiday greeting card

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVrRjt69lhU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVrRjt69lhU)
happy solstice you filthy animal

Same, same, big guy. Just finished the solstice party in the - C5 Rule of survival- the single greatest survival skillsest is the dinner party.

Canadian Bush guys get this. If I may quote a stoned Joe Rogan interviewing the late Michael Ruppert, "The survival of the human race rests in the hands of perky hippy chicks. If not for them it is just a bunch of agro dudes hanging out in the woods together... and that is not a future worth surviving".
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner... Predator Holiday Special
Post by: RE on December 21, 2018, 08:26:57 PM
I found this today and thought I would share... just in case any one wants to send it as a holiday greeting card

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVrRjt69lhU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVrRjt69lhU)
happy solstice you filthy animal

Same, same, big guy. Just finished the solstice party in the - C5 Rule of survival- the single greatest survival skillsest is the dinner party.

Canadian Bush guys get this. If I may quote a stoned Joe Rogan interviewing the late Michael Ruppert, "The survival of the human race rests in the hands of perky hippy chicks. If not for them it is just a bunch of agro dudes hanging out in the woods together... and that is not a future worth surviving".

So what was for dinner at the party and who cooked it?

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on December 21, 2018, 09:00:49 PM
It was pot luck.... and like any good survivalists.... there was way too much seasoned up squash... but beer and pot and good community smoothed that out. The nice treat was a widowed matriarch showing up with Chimmy Changas. Second year in a row where Pho Mexican food became seasonal fair...like Chinese food used to be the optional christmas fair.

Tomorrow I head to round two solstice with my younger peeps.There will be drumming....and I will keep my aging punk mouth fucking shut and play the good patriarch. Survival means showing up. Support Crew.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 22, 2018, 12:45:01 AM
It was pot luck.... and like any good survivalists.... there was way too much seasoned up squash... but beer and pot and good community smoothed that out. The nice treat was a widowed matriarch showing up with Chimmy Changas. Second year in a row where Pho Mexican food became seasonal fair...like Chinese food used to be the optional christmas fair.

Tomorrow I head to round two solstice with my younger peeps.There will be drumming....and I will keep my aging punk mouth fucking shut and play the good patriarch. Survival means showing up. Support Crew.

Shoot some pics!

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on December 22, 2018, 08:36:35 AM
Happy Hanukkah, all you denizens of the Great White North.

Sounds like a nice party, and I agree with Rogan, fwiw. Most of the best parts of my life have been made possible by perky hippy chicks.

Today I'm fantasizing about retirement...mebbe half time in the islands and half in Ca-nadia.

Here's a spot most people don't know about. I think that I am only separated by one degree from these people. I believe I know who they are, a little bit. I think they once built a house on Water Island that my friends lived in.

(https://images.craigslist.org/00T0T_hEI8TLI3KoZ_600x450.jpg)

I think I'll go back to San Juan.....

I know a boat I can get on.....

(Note to self:it's not to late to learn Espanol.)

But in Hurricane season....

(https://images.craigslist.org/00s0s_cjiutowX7Y_600x450.jpg)

S'what happens when I mix cannabis and coffee in the morning, while sitting around in my bathrobe.

Dream it. Be it. Live it.





Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on December 22, 2018, 11:09:48 AM
Happy Hanukkah, all you denizens of the Great White North.

Sounds like a nice party, and I agree with Rogan, fwiw. Most of the best parts of my life have been made possible by perky hippy chicks.

Today I'm fantasizing about retirement...mebbe half time in the islands and half in Ca-nadia.

Here's a spot most people don't know about. I think that I am only separated by one degree from these people. I believe I know who they are, a little bit. I think they once built a house on Water Island that my friends lived in.

(https://images.craigslist.org/00T0T_hEI8TLI3KoZ_600x450.jpg)

I think I'll go back to San Juan.....

I know a boat I can get on.....

(Note to self:it's not to late to learn Espanol.)

But in Hurricane season....

(https://images.craigslist.org/00s0s_cjiutowX7Y_600x450.jpg)

S'what happens when I mix cannabis and coffee in the morning, while sitting around in my bathrobe.

Dream it. Be it. Live it.
to paraphrase the Buddhists the best time to do it was 20 years ago, the second best time is today...
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on December 22, 2018, 11:32:38 AM
It was pot luck.... and like any good survivalists.... there was way too much seasoned up squash... but beer and pot and good community smoothed that out. The nice treat was a widowed matriarch showing up with Chimmy Changas. Second year in a row where Pho Mexican food became seasonal fair...like Chinese food used to be the optional christmas fair.

Tomorrow I head to round two solstice with my younger peeps.There will be drumming....and I will keep my aging punk mouth fucking shut and play the good patriarch. Survival means showing up. Support Crew.
busy year; 2 weekends ago in Mtl for hannukah,
This weekend solstice at the extended family down south. An organic farm with over 300 CSA shares. A nice farm raised Turkey and yes 2 types of squash dish. Some homemade kombucha of various sweetness and bitterness (I try but I don't like the stuff)... much beer and wine will flow. Then home for Christmas for a more lowkey affair. Happy return of the light everyone...
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: azozeo on December 22, 2018, 01:55:09 PM
Eddie,
I hope your dick falls off......

R U in da' Caribbean ? You are, you dawg.

Have a hedonistic Christmas.  :icon_sunny:
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 22, 2018, 02:17:16 PM
Eddie,
I hope your dick falls off......

R U in da' Caribbean ? You are, you dawg.

Have a hedonistic Christmas.  :icon_sunny:

No, he's daydreaming.  He already took his VI Vacation.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: azozeo on December 22, 2018, 02:39:25 PM
Eddie,
I hope your dick falls off......

R U in da' Caribbean ? You are, you dawg.

Have a hedonistic Christmas.  :icon_sunny:

No, he's daydreaming.  He already took his VI Vacation.

RE


SSSSSSIIIIIIIIIIIxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxTTTTTTTTTTTHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

No fug'n way......
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on December 22, 2018, 07:26:19 PM
No, AZ...just window shopping. I'm going on vacation on the 26th. Up to Alta. It'll be our 18th year to spend New Years there. I missed one year, and the missus missed a different one, but the rest we've spent together up there. It's been a fine tradition.

(https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.HPG9nqA4UIHhL_xj5UTs6QHaFj&w=229&h=170&c=7&o=5&dpr=2&pid=1.7)
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on December 22, 2018, 07:31:17 PM
Happy Hanukkah, all you denizens of the Great White North.

Sounds like a nice party, and I agree with Rogan, fwiw. Most of the best parts of my life have been made possible by perky hippy chicks.

Today I'm fantasizing about retirement...mebbe half time in the islands and half in Ca-nadia.

Here's a spot most people don't know about. I think that I am only separated by one degree from these people. I believe I know who they are, a little bit. I think they once built a house on Water Island that my friends lived in.

(https://images.craigslist.org/00T0T_hEI8TLI3KoZ_600x450.jpg)

I think I'll go back to San Juan.....

I know a boat I can get on.....

(Note to self:it's not to late to learn Espanol.)

But in Hurricane season....

(https://images.craigslist.org/00s0s_cjiutowX7Y_600x450.jpg)

S'what happens when I mix cannabis and coffee in the morning, while sitting around in my bathrobe.

Dream it. Be it. Live it.
to paraphrase the Buddhists the best time to do it was 20 years ago, the second best time is today...

I can't believe the Loonie is .74 US. Talk about a unique arbitrage opportunity. Now is the best of times. Just need to make a bit more money, which is at least possible. It could happen. Well might happen. I am completely open to it happening. Unashamed to want it to happen.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on December 22, 2018, 08:40:14 PM
Happy Hanukkah, all you denizens of the Great White North.

Sounds like a nice party, and I agree with Rogan, fwiw. Most of the best parts of my life have been made possible by perky hippy chicks.

Today I'm fantasizing about retirement...mebbe half time in the islands and half in Ca-nadia.

Here's a spot most people don't know about. I think that I am only separated by one degree from these people. I believe I know who they are, a little bit. I think they once built a house on Water Island that my friends lived in.

(https://images.craigslist.org/00T0T_hEI8TLI3KoZ_600x450.jpg)

I think I'll go back to San Juan.....

I know a boat I can get on.....

(Note to self:it's not to late to learn Espanol.)

But in Hurricane season....

(https://images.craigslist.org/00s0s_cjiutowX7Y_600x450.jpg)

S'what happens when I mix cannabis and coffee in the morning, while sitting around in my bathrobe.

Dream it. Be it. Live it.
to paraphrase the Buddhists the best time to do it was 20 years ago, the second best time is today...

I can't believe the Loonie is .74 US.
yup neither can we... does not bother me as I live work buy in Cdn. Dollars. It's only frustrating when I visit family in the Carolinas and Florida. I imagine it as what pthe us currency would be worth without reserve currency status. I for one wish you well in crypto land. If you end up stinking rich maybe I'll gain a well prepped neighbour...
Title: C5 Walks into a Diner... Apocalyptic parties
Post by: cernunnos5 on December 23, 2018, 07:00:23 AM
I thought I would toss this up, more for educational purposes.

I hung out with the dreddy stoner kids last night as part of my community building, Seasonal partying, apocalyptic strategy. Yup. Its a prepper strategy that I thought up and seems to be working well though it has taken half a decade to come to fruition.

Some have heard me say, C5 Rule of Survival- The single greatest survival skillset is the Dinner Party.
Or, C5 ROS- Build social capital. or C5 ROS- 10 untrained people with rusty bolt action 22s beats a special forces warrior every time. ETC ETC

It was nice going to a strangers party and finding out most of my crew was there. Hugs and reconnecting and reconfirming bonds to follow.

There was no real sence of community in this area when we moved here. Its been the long process of getting these alternative folks to meet. I have introduced a number of them. Now I bonded with a few more last night. Its now becoming a crew.

The hippy element. Why hippies instead of the quad, snowmobile, shooting types. They are more inclined to social bonding... and they got skills. Most came with little in the way of skills but new they had to get out of the cities. A new young couple we met last night confessed when they moved into the area, they moved in durring a snow storm and couldnt get there stuff to the house, No firewood... and pregnant.... but they toughed it out and worked it out. All these folks have gardens or are trying to get them. Some full fledged farmers. All are focused on off grid alternatives. All have that bravery that comes from throwing on a backpack, putting out their thumb and setting themselves adrift in the universe.

Lets sum up. There was no community. Now there is.

And there was another Squash soup last night. This time it was peanut satay chilly. The survivalist squash in its many forms.

Im off to a different crew tonight, then the Misfits Xmas tomorrow... then the new years events.

Sure, it goes against Secret Squirrel Survivalist thinking... but this is how to build survival community... one party at a time
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner... Apocalyptic parties
Post by: RE on December 23, 2018, 07:02:18 AM
No Pics?  :(

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on December 23, 2018, 07:13:15 AM
I dont use a cell phone... so no daily camera. Keeps costs down
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: RE on December 23, 2018, 09:41:13 AM
I dont use a cell phone... so no daily camera. Keeps costs down

Cameras are cheap and small enough to fit in your pants pocket.  No cost for film anymore either.  Your excuse is rejected.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner... Apocalyptic parties
Post by: azozeo on December 23, 2018, 02:01:28 PM
I thought I would toss this up, more for educational purposes.

I hung out with the dreddy stoner kids last night as part of my community building, Seasonal partying, apocalyptic strategy. Yup. Its a prepper strategy that I thought up and seems to be working well though it has taken half a decade to come to fruition.

Some have heard me say, C5 Rule of Survival- The single greatest survival skillset is the Dinner Party.
Or, C5 ROS- Build social capital. or C5 ROS- 10 untrained people with rusty bolt action 22s beats a special forces warrior every time. ETC ETC

It was nice going to a strangers party and finding out most of my crew was there. Hugs and reconnecting and reconfirming bonds to follow.

There was no real sence of community in this area when we moved here. Its been the long process of getting these alternative folks to meet. I have introduced a number of them. Now I bonded with a few more last night. Its now becoming a crew.

The hippy element. Why hippies instead of the quad, snowmobile, shooting types. They are more inclined to social bonding... and they got skills. Most came with little in the way of skills but new they had to get out of the cities. A new young couple we met last night confessed when they moved into the area, they moved in durring a snow storm and couldnt get there stuff to the house, No firewood... and pregnant.... but they toughed it out and worked it out. All these folks have gardens or are trying to get them. Some full fledged farmers. All are focused on off grid alternatives. All have that bravery that comes from throwing on a backpack, putting out their thumb and setting themselves adrift in the universe.

Lets sum up. There was no community. Now there is.

And there was another Squash soup last night. This time it was peanut satay chilly. The survivalist squash in its many forms.

Im off to a different crew tonight, then the Misfits Xmas tomorrow... then the new years events.

Sure, it goes against Secret Squirrel Survivalist thinking... but this is how to build survival community... one party at a time


Hedonistic Militia......  :icon_scratch:

There's a fit in there if you look  :icon_sunny:
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner... Floating a Question
Post by: cernunnos5 on January 09, 2019, 07:27:46 AM
I was thinking of giving a heads up on my next post... but Im not an expert on it. Just rolling it around in my head. Ive gotten insights from just blabbing here before. Seems a good idea now.

I have promoted storing recycled metal from scrap yards, to be used for building. Roof metal, galvanized fence posts and any fencing, old farm impliments, etc.. And of course, shipping containers.

Steel is ridiculously cheap at the moment. But I remember back to when Steel was ridiculously high. Back before 2005, pre 2008, pre commodities crash. The world was building. China was building. Vancouver was in build everything mode.

Now, What if Trump gets his wall. That will be trying to wall the length of an entire fucking continent. Does that amount of metal even exist? Will that sky rocket steel price.

More importantly, is that going to rise the price of every of every PRODUCT made with steel. From cars to farm equipment to fencing to food cans to tractors to...billhooks and machetes.

Sort of a double tax on everything put on every consumer. Potential economy crasher.

Random thought. If they confiscated every vehicle in amerka, what tiny part of the wall would that be? 

My point for my readers would be, get your metal as quikly as possible.

So that is my thought. I want to roll it past you folks for your thoughts. I cant wrap my head around something that size.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on January 09, 2019, 07:32:14 AM
As an after thought, How about the coal to smelt it.... and the effects to global greenhouse gasses, etc
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on January 09, 2019, 07:54:05 AM
GO probably understands commodity prices way better than I do...but I know it's complex, and has to do with more than domestic demand.

Steel is RELATIVELY cheap. It's pulled back, probably because of falling demand both domestic and foreign...but the long term trend looks to be headed up over a long time frame. I can't post charts worth spit with this computer.

I'd never stockpile any material I have no immediate purpose for. It's money tied up for nothing, If you need steel "anything", it's probably not a bad time to get it..

I don't think you can assume the border wall will ever get built. It's a power play, and it's a really stupid idea. So many other, more reasonable ways to deal with this problem. The asylum process is greatly flawed. That's where the solution would lie, but that probably won't happen.

Main thing...a refugee crisis is going to be a problem from now on. It will get bigger. The likelihood of it getting fixed is almost zero.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: g on January 09, 2019, 08:12:33 AM
GO probably understands commodity prices way better than I do...but I know it's complex, and has to do with more than domestic demand.

Steel is RELATIVELY cheap. It's pulled back, probably because of falling demand both domestic and foreign...but the long term trend looks to be headed up over a long time frame. I can't post charts worth spit with this computer.

I'd never stockpile any material I have no immediate purpose for. It's money tied up for nothing, If you need steel "anything", it's probably not a bad time to get it..

I don't think you can assume the border wall will ever get built. It's a power play, and it's a really stupid idea. So many other, more reasonable ways to deal with this problem. The asylum process is greatly flawed. That's where the solution would lie, but that probably won't happen.

Main thing...a refugee crisis is going to be a problem from now on. It will get bigger. The likelihood of it getting fixed is almost zero.


One of the few commodities in the world not  to worry about a shortage of. Price is another factor with too many variable to write about here.

Steel was produced in bloomery furnaces for thousands of years, but its large-scale, industrial use began only after more efficient production methods were devised in the 17th century, with the production of blister steel and then crucible steel. With the invention of the Bessemer process in the mid-19th century, a new era of mass-produced steel began. This was followed by the Siemens-Martin process and then the Gilchrist-Thomas process that refined the quality of steel. With their introductions, mild steel replaced wrought iron.

Further refinements in the process, such as basic oxygen steelmaking (BOS), largely replaced earlier methods by further lowering the cost of production and increasing the quality of the final product. Today, steel is one of the most common manmade materials in the world, with more than 1.6 billion tons produced annually. Modern steel is generally identified by various grades defined by assorted standards organizations.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on January 09, 2019, 10:36:33 AM
I stockpile steel like every rural dweller I know of with land and inconspicuous spots to put it. I have tractor implements from the 1950's designed for my gear that I have not used yet, tanks both water and propane for my gasifiers, chimneys for my burning things, metal roofing from when I order steel for projects there is always a top sheet to avoid damage, angle iron for well anything, fence posts, tubing of all sorts of shapes. 2 lawn tractors a scrap jeep etc.  I stockpile the useful stuff under spruce trees in the natural hollow they create. It's my hardware store and metal preps all in one.
I don't think the price of steel would go insane even if the wall goes ahead. It's big but not China big. There is far more recycling of scrap then before with induction furnaces now common. It's way easier to stockpile scrap and transform it on a large scale when prices go up then to build new steel capacity. The economics dudes will have to weigh in but in the last 20 years steel recycling has come of age. Maybe it helps regulate fluctuations? That's out of my comfort level.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on January 09, 2019, 10:46:57 AM
A lot of my farm implements might be considered scrap by some people. I wasn't counting those. :)
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on January 09, 2019, 10:51:42 AM
MY "parts" backhoe weighs 12000 pounds.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on January 09, 2019, 10:55:17 AM
Two "extra" tractors that were running when parked. LOL.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on January 09, 2019, 11:02:20 AM
Three cars that are no longer road worthy at the house. Enough Harley parts in the garage to build a whole motorcycle and then some.

In storage:

'56 MGA needs a clutch (and carb work since it's been sitting)

'59 MGA parts car

'67 Austin-Healey Sprite MK IV, needs everything

'50 Flathead Gray Marine 6 banger with dual downdraft Zeniths.

I take it back. I do stockpile scrap steel.

Update: Forgot the '70 BMW R50 short wheelbase in the garage.

Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: cernunnos5 on January 09, 2019, 11:52:15 AM
I'm still having trouble picturing it. I cant get a mental reference point for comparison.

Ive been across the country a few times and it is rather large.

I was trying to picture in my head, if we took every car on the planet, every skyscraper, every cargo tanker,... would that do it?
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on January 09, 2019, 12:06:55 PM
(https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/cadillac-ranch-postcard.jpg)

I doubt it.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on January 09, 2019, 12:37:47 PM
I don't feel like sitting down with engineering tables right now but here is an interesting estimate from wapo
https://www-washingtonpost-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/politics/2018/12/23/based-trumps-detailed-diagram-his-slat-wall-we-did-some-advanced-mathematics/?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQECAFYAQ%3D%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fpolitics%2F2018%2F12%2F23%2Fbased-trumps-detailed-diagram-his-slat-wall-we-did-some-advanced-mathematics%2F (https://www-washingtonpost-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/politics/2018/12/23/based-trumps-detailed-diagram-his-slat-wall-we-did-some-advanced-mathematics/?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQECAFYAQ%3D%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fpolitics%2F2018%2F12%2F23%2Fbased-trumps-detailed-diagram-his-slat-wall-we-did-some-advanced-mathematics%2F)
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: AJ on January 09, 2019, 02:36:02 PM

I don't think you can assume the border wall will ever get built. It's a power play, and it's a really stupid idea. So many other, more reasonable ways to deal with this problem. The asylum process is greatly flawed. That's where the solution would lie, but that probably won't happen.

Main thing...a refugee crisis is going to be a problem from now on. It will get bigger. The likelihood of it getting fixed is almost zero.

Let's face it the problem for most of Trump's supporters is that they feel dispossessed in Amerika. They are on the bottom rungs economically and see immigrants as competition driving their wages down (or keeping them down). AND isn't that what capitalists want? Make the serfs fight over their jobs while you take in the riches?
To Trump's supporters a wall makes visual sense. That's what they put up to keep nosy neighbors away.
I don't think the wall is a solution and will probably not get built too. However, the problem for Amerika is that as long as BAU continues and climate catastrophe accelerates refugees will start arriving in droves. Look at Europe. The right-wing rise in Europe is partially caused by all the refugees that have been arriving from Africa and the Middle East. The problem will get bigger, until we collapse.
Have to agree with C5, sheet metal siding should be stockpiled (if you can). Here in Oregon everything rusts away in short order. Only makes sense if you can keep it dry.
AJ
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on January 09, 2019, 03:01:15 PM

I don't think you can assume the border wall will ever get built. It's a power play, and it's a really stupid idea. So many other, more reasonable ways to deal with this problem. The asylum process is greatly flawed. That's where the solution would lie, but that probably won't happen.

Main thing...a refugee crisis is going to be a problem from now on. It will get bigger. The likelihood of it getting fixed is almost zero.

Let's face it the problem for most of Trump's supporters is that they feel dispossessed in Amerika. They are on the bottom rungs economically and see immigrants as competition driving their wages down (or keeping them down). AND isn't that what capitalists want? Make the serfs fight over their jobs while you take in the riches?
To Trump's supporters a wall makes visual sense. That's what they put up to keep nosy neighbors away.
I don't think the wall is a solution and will probably not get built too. However, the problem for Amerika is that as long as BAU continues and climate catastrophe accelerates refugees will start arriving in droves. Look at Europe. The right-wing rise in Europe is partially caused by all the refugees that have been arriving from Africa and the Middle East. The problem will get bigger, until we collapse.
Have to agree with C5, sheet metal siding should be stockpiled (if you can). Here in Oregon everything rusts away in short order. Only makes sense if you can keep it dry.
AJ

I just happen to own two 26 stall boat barns made out of old school heavy corrugated sheet iron. (Thanks, pot stocks.) Hopefully I sell the dirt for 500K and tear down the buildings and salvage the tin.

It could happen. LOL.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on January 09, 2019, 03:28:20 PM

I don't think you can assume the border wall will ever get built. It's a power play, and it's a really stupid idea. So many other, more reasonable ways to deal with this problem. The asylum process is greatly flawed. That's where the solution would lie, but that probably won't happen.

Main thing...a refugee crisis is going to be a problem from now on. It will get bigger. The likelihood of it getting fixed is almost zero.

Let's face it the problem for most of Trump's supporters is that they feel dispossessed in Amerika. They are on the bottom rungs economically and see immigrants as competition driving their wages down (or keeping them down). AND isn't that what capitalists want? Make the serfs fight over their jobs while you take in the riches?
To Trump's supporters a wall makes visual sense. That's what they put up to keep nosy neighbors away.
I don't think the wall is a solution and will probably not get built too. However, the problem for Amerika is that as long as BAU continues and climate catastrophe accelerates refugees will start arriving in droves. Look at Europe. The right-wing rise in Europe is partially caused by all the refugees that have been arriving from Africa and the Middle East. The problem will get bigger, until we collapse.
Have to agree with C5, sheet metal siding should be stockpiled (if you can). Here in Oregon everything rusts away in short order. Only makes sense if you can keep it dry.
AJ

I just happen to own two 26 stall boat barns made out of old school heavy corrugated sheet iron. (Thanks, pot stocks.) Hopefully I sell the dirt for 500K and tear down the buildings and salvage the tin.

It could happen. LOL.
hmm I don't think I'd ever leave if I had all that to play with... a charcoal powered mg... a thriving goat milking farm. A honking big solar array in the Texas sun... so many projects!
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Eddie on January 09, 2019, 04:30:56 PM

I don't think you can assume the border wall will ever get built. It's a power play, and it's a really stupid idea. So many other, more reasonable ways to deal with this problem. The asylum process is greatly flawed. That's where the solution would lie, but that probably won't happen.

Main thing...a refugee crisis is going to be a problem from now on. It will get bigger. The likelihood of it getting fixed is almost zero.

Let's face it the problem for most of Trump's supporters is that they feel dispossessed in Amerika. They are on the bottom rungs economically and see immigrants as competition driving their wages down (or keeping them down). AND isn't that what capitalists want? Make the serfs fight over their jobs while you take in the riches?
To Trump's supporters a wall makes visual sense. That's what they put up to keep nosy neighbors away.
I don't think the wall is a solution and will probably not get built too. However, the problem for Amerika is that as long as BAU continues and climate catastrophe accelerates refugees will start arriving in droves. Look at Europe. The right-wing rise in Europe is partially caused by all the refugees that have been arriving from Africa and the Middle East. The problem will get bigger, until we collapse.
Have to agree with C5, sheet metal siding should be stockpiled (if you can). Here in Oregon everything rusts away in short order. Only makes sense if you can keep it dry.
AJ

I just happen to own two 26 stall boat barns made out of old school heavy corrugated sheet iron. (Thanks, pot stocks.) Hopefully I sell the dirt for 500K and tear down the buildings and salvage the tin.

It could happen. LOL.
hmm I don't think I'd ever leave if I had all that to play with... a charcoal powered mg... a thriving goat milking farm. A honking big solar array in the Texas sun... so many projects!

I grew up in East Texas, which is the western edge of the deep south. I first came here when I was 16 years old, and it was so, so beautiful....clear water, rocky hills, pecans trees and live oaks....I told my father then I'd like to have my own place here.

It looked like I won the freakin' lottery...the way it all came together. When I found the stead (thank you Craigslist) I felt incredibly lucky....but the way it worked out....I had to wait....it almost fell through....I hung in for four or five years and the stars finally lined up and I made a deal with the prior owner. He knew how bad I wanted the place, and he wanted me to have it.

It came together.... I thought I would grow old and die there and have my ashes scattered on that place.

But shit happens. Climate change is happening, Collapse is happening. I'm not happy to think about moving, but it bears consideration. It doesn't make me happy, particularly.

I'd rather retire and tinker with all my old junk and  live out my life the way I thought it was going to be when I was young. Yeah...I damn sure would, actually.
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Nearingsfault on January 09, 2019, 05:11:42 PM

I don't think you can assume the border wall will ever get built. It's a power play, and it's a really stupid idea. So many other, more reasonable ways to deal with this problem. The asylum process is greatly flawed. That's where the solution would lie, but that probably won't happen.

Main thing...a refugee crisis is going to be a problem from now on. It will get bigger. The likelihood of it getting fixed is almost zero.

Let's face it the problem for most of Trump's supporters is that they feel dispossessed in Amerika. They are on the bottom rungs economically and see immigrants as competition driving their wages down (or keeping them down). AND isn't that what capitalists want? Make the serfs fight over their jobs while you take in the riches?
To Trump's supporters a wall makes visual sense. That's what they put up to keep nosy neighbors away.
I don't think the wall is a solution and will probably not get built too. However, the problem for Amerika is that as long as BAU continues and climate catastrophe accelerates refugees will start arriving in droves. Look at Europe. The right-wing rise in Europe is partially caused by all the refugees that have been arriving from Africa and the Middle East. The problem will get bigger, until we collapse.
Have to agree with C5, sheet metal siding should be stockpiled (if you can). Here in Oregon everything rusts away in short order. Only makes sense if you can keep it dry.
AJ

I just happen to own two 26 stall boat barns made out of old school heavy corrugated sheet iron. (Thanks, pot stocks.) Hopefully I sell the dirt for 500K and tear down the buildings and salvage the tin.

It could happen. LOL.
hmm I don't think I'd ever leave if I had all that to play with... a charcoal powered mg... a thriving goat milking farm. A honking big solar array in the Texas sun... so many projects!

I grew up in East Texas, which is the western edge of the deep south. I first came here when I was 16 years old, and it was so, so beautiful....clear water, rocky hills, pecans trees and live oaks....I told my father then I'd like to have my own place here.

It looked like I won the freakin' lottery...the way it all came together. When I found the stead (thank you Craigslist) I felt incredibly lucky....but the way it worked out....I had to wait....it almost fell through....I hung in for four or five years and the stars finally lined up and I made a deal with the prior owner. He knew how bad I wanted the place, and he wanted me to have it.

It came together.... I thought I would grow old and die there and have my ashes scattered on that place.

But shit happens. Climate change is happening, Collapse is happening. I'm not happy to think about moving, but it bears consideration. It doesn't make me happy, particularly.

I'd rather retire and tinker with all my old junk and  live out my life the way I thought it was going to be when I was young. Yeah...I damn sure would, actually.
In french my mom would say "arrete de faire la morale" So roughly "don't preach". Throwing that aside I shall; having gone through ridiculous amounts of shit in the last 15 months and my wife's sickness before that trust me...just do it or be rid of it.  An eye blink and you are dead. A bad doc checkup and you are dead... I'm an atheist so this plane is all there is to me. I'm hard core decluttering these days so I'm in ruthless philosophy mode.
 
Title: Re: C5 Walks into a Diner...
Post by: Surly1 on