HOW TO do things in this forum. => FAQs => Topic started by: RE on April 09, 2018, 02:25:24 PM

Title: Diner Code of Conduct
Post by: RE on April 09, 2018, 02:25:24 PM
More conveniently referred to as the "CoC".

We recently have had yet another outburst from Diners who are not content with the way this forum is managed.  I am going to make yet another clarification on the CoC to get this tiresome and recurring problem cleared up.    ::)

1-  You need to be polite and respectful of other Diners and their attitudes and viewpoints.  Snarky comments and pictures used to ridicule others are not acceptable.

2-  The Diner forum has many different Diners with different interests and passions.  Not all are directly related to collapse, but they usually have some tangential relationship and will inspire collapse related discussion.  They also give you some relief from the daily dose of doom we get all the time here of one sort or another.  If you are not interested in Art, Stamps, Boats or Food, don't read those threads.  There is plenty of other stuff posted every day to read from WWIII to the Collapse of the Monetary System.

3-  Complaining about Censorship is a total waste of time.  Any such post will itself be pitched to the Great Beyond.  If you don't like this, tough nuggies.

4-  STICK TO THE TOPIC!  If your disagreement is about economics or geopolitics, talk about that, not what other Diners opinions are on these topics.  Don't call other Diners "stupid" or some variant of that for having a different take on it than you do.

5-  Politically speaking, the vast majority of Diners do not think Trumpovetsky is a very good POTUS.  If you are going to Stump4Trump on the Diner, other Diners will list out his many deficiencies, including but not limited to incompetence, criminal racketeering in real estate, misogyny, racism, narcissism and megalomania.  If you want to show your support for this dimwit, do it somewhere else.

6-  Diners who persistently and repeatedly violate the CoC will be put on Moderation or have their posting privileges removed.

There are of course other issues which will come up to be added to the CoC as needs require.  In the mean time, remember the words of Rodney King.

(http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-why-can-t-we-all-just-get-along-rodney-king-87-45-94.jpg)

RE
Title: Re: Diner Code of Conduct
Post by: RE on April 12, 2018, 12:17:14 AM
A new issue has cropped up regarding making jokes in a time of Collapse.  Some Diners do not think Humor is appropriate in a Collapse situation, whereas others feel Humor is a helpful means to maintain your sanity.  It depends a lot on your underlying personality which category you fit into.  So we now have 2 new Rules for the CoC:

7-  You may not criticize other Diners either for making jokes or for being morose and humorless.

8-  You may not criticize other Diners for running threads which are tangential to collapse but are in their own area of interest.

Also, going back to the Moriarty Era...

9-  You may not brag about your own credentials in Collapse Issues without revealing your real identity and presenting evidence of your own expertiese

10  You may not present yourself as "better" or "more moral & ethical"  than other Diners.  You can however make explanations why you think your method of living is the most moral & ethical one.
Title: Re: Diner Code of Conduct
Post by: luciddreams on April 12, 2018, 06:43:00 AM
Is it ok to make fun of crotchety old farts for being crotchety old farts?
Title: Re: Diner Code of Conduct
Post by: Palloy2 on April 12, 2018, 07:31:24 AM
I object to all the new rules on the grounds they have been designed specifically to eliminate me.  I will not obey any of these rules.  This wouldn't be the first forum where I have been ejected.
Title: Re: Diner Code of Conduct
Post by: Surly1 on April 12, 2018, 07:48:17 AM
I object to all the new rules on the grounds they have been designed specifically to eliminate me.  I will not obey any of these rules.  This wouldn't be the first forum where I have been ejected.

The world is emphatically NOT all about you, and allow me to assure you that they have not been designed with you in mind.

These rules have been in place since the days of Mking and the attempted hijacking of the Forum while a bunch of souls were at the first convocation. Mking was the person who taught us all that an untrammeled free speech zone was untenable,because some people always need to test the limits.

The rules have been enforced with a hand that has been perhaps too light, and let some ad hom go that should have been shitcanned. My preference is to stay out of the way.

Personally, I don't think arguing the point and not the man is such an onerous burden.
Title: Re: Diner Code of Conduct
Post by: Surly1 on April 12, 2018, 07:50:23 AM
Is it ok to make fun of crotchety old farts for being crotchety old farts?

Yes, especially if you're a crotchety-old-fart-in-the-making yourself.
Title: Re: Diner Code of Conduct
Post by: RE on April 12, 2018, 08:22:09 AM
I object to all the new rules on the grounds they have been designed specifically to eliminate me.  I will not obey any of these rules.  This wouldn't be the first forum where I have been ejected.

As Surly mentions, these rules have always been in place, because for most people, they are CFS and they are how you operate IRL.  The internet however offers you a layer of anonymity  allowing you to say stuff that would IRL get you punched in the face for saying.  I am forced into writing down what should be CFS for people who seek to stretch these rules to the breaking point on a regular basis.

I am not surprised in the least that you have been ejected from other forums.  You are highly opinionated and like to attack other people for their ideas.  You think you hold the high ground of moral & ethical virtue.  On this forum however, you are currently in no danger of being banned, you are just being reminded that being an asshole on a daily basis annoys everyone. lol.

Now, you are free to ignore the rules, just as anyone is free to shoplift.  You'll probably get away with it most of the time, but you will also get caught sometimes.  You usually don't get a prison sentence for shoplifting though, just some kind of fine or slap on the wrist.  Try to get along better with your fellow Diners and not be so insulting.  Then you will get fewer wrist slaps.

RE
Title: Re: Diner Code of Conduct
Post by: RE on April 12, 2018, 08:35:14 AM
Is it ok to make fun of crotchety old farts for being crotchety old farts?

Yes, especially if you're a crotchety-old-fart-in-the-making yourself.

LD has achieved Crochety Old Fart status in Middle Age, a tremendous achievement.  He's a Prodigy.

RE
Title: Diner Code of Conduct: Grumpy Old Men
Post by: RE on April 12, 2018, 08:43:44 AM
http://www.youtube.com/v/ePRYhNNdzwk
Title: Re: Diner Code of Conduct
Post by: agelbert on April 12, 2018, 12:03:32 PM
I object to all the new rules on the grounds they have been designed specifically to eliminate me.  I will not obey any of these rules.  This wouldn't be the first forum where I have been ejected.

As Surly mentions, these rules have always been in place, because for most people, they are CFS and they are how you operate IRL.  The internet however offers you a layer of anonymity  allowing you to say stuff that would IRL get you punched in the face for saying.  I am forced into writing down what should be CFS for people who seek to stretch these rules to the breaking point on a regular basis.

I am not surprised in the least that you have been ejected from other forums.  You are highly opinionated and like to attack other people for their ideas.  You think you hold the high ground of moral & ethical virtue.  On this forum however, you are currently in no danger of being banned, you are just being reminded that being an asshole on a daily basis annoys everyone. lol.

Now, you are free to ignore the rules, just as anyone is free to shoplift.  You'll probably get away with it most of the time, but you will also get caught sometimes.  You usually don't get a prison sentence for shoplifting though, just some kind of fine or slap on the wrist.  Try to get along better with your fellow Diners and not be so insulting.  Then you will get fewer wrist slaps.

RE

Well said. When a diner (e.g. Palloy) is "insulted" by calls by other Diners to stop using sniping or sarcastic or cynical remarks aimed squarely at another diner, rather than at the issue being discussed, as Eddie did to Palloy when he urged Palloy to "not be such a prick", said person has ZERO grounds to moan and groan about "Ad hominem", OR, as is even more insufferable, as Eddie pointed out, the pedantic school master instructions arrogantly issued for all of us to "not be boyish". The hypocrisy is so thick you can cut it with a knife.

I do not have the patience you have, RE. However, I am grateful that you and Surly, and sometimes Eddie too! :emthup:, make it 📢 crystal clear what is acceptable discourse and what isn't. Well done. ✨  💫
Title: Re: Diner Code of Conduct
Post by: Surly1 on April 12, 2018, 12:54:25 PM
 This is somewhat off-topic, but Iím in the hospital right now and canít get to a keyboard. Will and admin go in and identify who is spamming most of the boards, and kill that motherfucker?
Title: Re: Diner Code of Conduct
Post by: Surly1 on April 12, 2018, 12:57:41 PM
I think I got him. Please check.
Title: Re: Diner Code of Conduct
Post by: RE on April 12, 2018, 01:39:38 PM
This is somewhat off-topic, but Iím in the hospital right now and canít get to a keyboard. Will and admin go in and identify who is spamming most of the boards, and kill that motherfucker?

I have been napping.  I haven't seen any spam.

RE
Title: Re: Diner Code of Conduct
Post by: Surly1 on April 12, 2018, 02:15:21 PM
This is somewhat off-topic, but Iím in the hospital right now and canít get to a keyboard. Will and admin go in and identify who is spamming most of the boards, and kill that motherfucker?

I have been napping.  I haven't seen any spam.

RE

Maybe Eddie got the rest that I didnít nuke.

Offers to sell fake passports. Perfect.

You can check the admin logs for the box score.
Title: Re: Diner Code of Conduct
Post by: RE on April 12, 2018, 02:19:10 PM
This is somewhat off-topic, but Iím in the hospital right now and canít get to a keyboard. Will and admin go in and identify who is spamming most of the boards, and kill that motherfucker?

I have been napping.  I haven't seen any spam.

RE

Maybe Eddie got the rest that I didnít nuke.

Offers to sell fake passports. Perfect.

You can check the admin logs for the box score.

I found them and got them.

Why are you in the hospital and why don't you have your laptop?  One should never get admitted to the hospital without your laptop unless it was an emergency and you were unconscious.

RE
Title: Re: Diner Code of Conduct
Post by: Surly1 on April 12, 2018, 02:41:13 PM
This is somewhat off-topic, but Iím in the hospital right now and canít get to a keyboard. Will and admin go in and identify who is spamming most of the boards, and kill that motherfucker?

I have been napping.  I haven't seen any spam.

RE

Maybe Eddie got the rest that I didnít nuke.

Offers to sell fake passports. Perfect.

You can check the admin logs for the box score.

I found them and got them.

Why are you in the hospital and why don't you have your laptop?  One should never get admitted to the hospital without your laptop unless it was an emergency and you were unconscious.

RE

In the ER. Fell Yesterday, and broke my fall with my elbow. Hurt like hell, thought I can play through it, and itís just getting worse. A guy shook my hand today and I thought my arm is going to come off at the shoulder. So went to get it looked at. Itís my picture taking arm as well. Fuck me.
Title: Re: Diner Code of Conduct
Post by: Palloy2 on April 12, 2018, 03:40:25 PM
Quote
RE: These rules have been in place since the days of Mking

I was referring to "the new rules", numbers 7 -10, which were introduced "today".
Title: Re: Diner Code of Conduct
Post by: Surly1 on April 12, 2018, 03:47:13 PM
Quote
RE: These rules have been in place since the days of Mking

I was referring to "the new rules", numbers 7 -10, which were introduced "today".

I read those after I made my post. You may have a point. That said, both common sense and common courtesy will take you a long way.
Title: Re: Diner Code of Conduct
Post by: RE on April 12, 2018, 04:15:39 PM
Quote
RE: These rules have been in place since the days of Mking

I was referring to "the new rules", numbers 7 -10, which were introduced "today".

As I said in the OP:

Quote
There are of course other issues which will come up to be added to the CoC as needs require.

You demonstrated the need for additional rules, so I added them.  I'll add another rule here.

11-  It is against the rules to complain about the rules.

RE
Title: Re: Diner Code of Conduct
Post by: RE on April 12, 2018, 04:21:38 PM
This is somewhat off-topic, but Iím in the hospital right now and canít get to a keyboard. Will and admin go in and identify who is spamming most of the boards, and kill that motherfucker?

I have been napping.  I haven't seen any spam.

RE

Maybe Eddie got the rest that I didnít nuke.

Offers to sell fake passports. Perfect.

You can check the admin logs for the box score.

I found them and got them.

Why are you in the hospital and why don't you have your laptop?  One should never get admitted to the hospital without your laptop unless it was an emergency and you were unconscious.

RE

In the ER. Fell Yesterday, and broke my fall with my elbow. Hurt like hell, thought I can play through it, and itís just getting worse. A guy shook my hand today and I thought my arm is going to come off at the shoulder. So went to get it looked at. Itís my picture taking arm as well. Fuck me.

So you were home between the time you fell and took yourself to the ER.  Never head for the ER without your laptop!  Or at least a folding keyboard and bluetooth mouse for your smart phone.

Let us know the outcome here of this disaster.

RE
Title: Re: Diner Code of Conduct
Post by: luciddreams on April 12, 2018, 04:29:32 PM
Is it ok to make fun of crotchety old farts for being crotchety old farts?

Yes, especially if you're a crotchety-old-fart-in-the-making yourself.

LD has achieved Crochety Old Fart status in Middle Age, a tremendous achievement.  He's a Prodigy.

RE

Well for some reason it feels like an honor coming from you, the head crotchety old fart in charge.  I consider this to be one of my most endearing achievements to date.  What does this mean for my future?  I mean, if I'm already a crotchety old fart at 38, what could I possibly achieve by the time I'm actually an old man? 

Master of cynicism? 
Title: Re: Diner Code of Conduct
Post by: RE on April 12, 2018, 04:33:50 PM
Is it ok to make fun of crotchety old farts for being crotchety old farts?

Yes, especially if you're a crotchety-old-fart-in-the-making yourself.

LD has achieved Crochety Old Fart status in Middle Age, a tremendous achievement.  He's a Prodigy.

RE

Well for some reason it feels like an honor coming from you, the head crotchety old fart in charge.  I consider this to be one of my most endearing achievements to date.  What does this mean for my future?  I mean, if I'm already a crotchety old fart at 38, what could I possibly achieve by the time I'm actually an old man? 

Master of cynicism?

Crotchety Buddhahood.

RE
Title: Diner Code of Conduct: Rule 12
Post by: RE on April 12, 2018, 04:40:56 PM
12-  It is a violation of the CoC to blame an individual Diner for the aggregate behavior of the nation he/she lives in.  This includes but is not limited to energy consumption or political leadership.  Individual Diners may only be held accountable for their own personal choices and lifestyle.
Title: Re: Diner Code of Conduct
Post by: luciddreams on April 12, 2018, 04:53:49 PM


Crotchety Buddhahood.

RE

Nice!  I shall aspire to reach Crotchety Buddhahood than. 
Title: Re: Diner Code of Conduct
Post by: Eddie on April 12, 2018, 05:09:17 PM
Sorry to hear about your arm, Surly. I had a long day of work in the OR and then had to drive to the farm. Been out all day.

I'd hate to see Palloy leave the site. I often don't see things his way, but I think he makes a very valuable contribution.

I do wonder if he's deliberately being a jerk so he can get kicked off and then feel justified to himself that he was somehow mistreated and got the shaft. I think it's likely. "Justify" and "Lay Blame" are two of his favorite games.

He gives me an awful lot of unsolicited advice and a boatload of criticism about how I should live my life  and what my form of political action should be....for someone who is himself a reclusive ex-pat who has withdrawn from his own prior activism in order to live in a place he thinks is a good one to hunker down and wait for collapse. I see a lot of irony there, frankly.

Just like several other Diner denizens, he's a big talker online. There are no consequences, so why not? I never say anything online I would not say to someone's face, or make idle threats. It'd be a waste of time. So....he can do and say what he wants. I'll put him on ignore and do him the favor of not commenting on his threads, which I'm sure he'd prefer.

Let him post his RT stuff and write about how imminent WWIII is, or a stock market crash, or any of the other big collapse events he sees coming tomorrow and next week. I can't get too excited, because I know he is eaten up with confirmation bias and he does it because he's afraid he'll die of old age before the evil empire collapses.

I wish him good luck. I expect some of us will live to see some of those things happen, but I'm not bullshitting myself that any of us can call the timing on it. And I'll set my own course, thank you.

The collapse world is full of people who think, like Palloy, that we should all abandon BAU and...I don't know, maybe squat somewhere in an abandoned building and panhandle maybe? Plant our gardens on the right-of-way of the Interstate? I'm not sure, but every one of them is up to his or her neck in self-righteousness, and the hypocrisy is usually not to hard to find if you look closely.

Everybody has a life of some kind, and it's theirs to live. I don't tell other people how to live their lives, and I don't mind telling assholes who want to tell me how to live mine to fuck off.
Title: Re: Diner Code of Conduct
Post by: Palloy2 on April 12, 2018, 05:55:15 PM
Quote
RE: Rule 12

12-  It is a violation of the CoC to blame an individual Diner for the aggregate behavior of the nation he/she lives in.  This includes but is not limited to energy consumption or political leadership.  Individual Diners may only be held accountable for their own personal choices and lifestyle.

There, that's the way to win an argument - make the other's POV a violation of the CoC.
If Diners are not to be held accountable for the Government of their country, when they took part in voting it in and have accepted the result, then you have just relieved yourself of a ton of criticism without having to argue a word.  This is a solution for the cognitively bias, that allows them to remain in their virtual reality.

For the record, I object to Rules 7 - 12, including Rule 11 which wasn't promulgated.  The whole site has become a farce.
Title: Re: Diner Code of Conduct
Post by: luciddreams on April 12, 2018, 06:17:00 PM
The whole site has become a farce.

No, it has not become a farce.  It's just that nobody happens to agree with you.  But then most of us disagree on most things.  All of us agree on some things.  I'm sure even you agree with someone on something.

I disagree with you on ww3 and that this site has become a farce.  This site is what it has always been.
Title: Re: Diner Code of Conduct
Post by: David B. on April 12, 2018, 06:24:36 PM
I didn't ask for the rule. My reply to AG was in a way a rebuke to myself for bothering to reply at all. I can simply not post to it easily enough. Better things to do. Wood to split, seeds to start to paraphrase someone else.
Cheers David B.
Title: Re: Diner Code of Conduct
Post by: Palloy2 on April 12, 2018, 06:47:21 PM
Quote
LD: This site is what it has always been.

No, it has changed a lot, particularly the attitude about censorship.
Go back to the Guerilla Internet Free Speech thread and the gems by RE:

"You CANNOT let your POWER as ADMIN prevent the free flow of ideas. It is UNACCEPTABLE."

"I cannot possibly accept the idea of Censorship here, the whole reason for the Diner's existence was because *I* have been Censored so many times before."

Now censorship is being achieved by the CoC Rules, which RE is making up and applying on the fly.  It is UNACCEPTABLE.
Title: Re: Diner Code of Conduct
Post by: RE on April 12, 2018, 07:31:55 PM
The whole site has become a farce.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but if that is your opinion why do you bother wasting time participating on the forum?  ???   :icon_scratch:

We managed for many years without an "official" CoC, just by using CFS and generally good manners.  I am now forced to write down rules because some folks do not have CFS and/or good manners.

Blaming Diners for being an Amerikan who drives a car for all the ills of the world is ridiculous and tiresome.  So is blaming all Canadians for digging up tar sands.  So is blaming all Muslims for being Terrorists.  Lumping people together in gross generalizations like this is a logical fallacy.

If you are going to continue to waste your time on a forum which has become a "farce", then I suggest you follow the "stick to the topic" rule on the topics which concern you.

RE