Doomstead Diner Menu => Doom Psychology & Philosophy => Topic started by: RE on May 12, 2018, 02:57:11 AM

Title: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: RE on May 12, 2018, 02:57:11 AM
https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20180511/depression-striking-more-young-people-than-ever (https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20180511/depression-striking-more-young-people-than-ever)

Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever


By Robert Preidt

HealthDay Reporter

FRIDAY, May 11, 2018 (HealthDay News) -- Americans are fast becoming a very depressed lot.

New research shows there's been a sharp spike in cases of major depression in the United States in recent years, especially among teens and millennials.

The Blue Cross Blue Shield Association analysis of medical claims data showed that the overall rate of major depression was 4.4 percent and that diagnosis rates rose 33 percent between 2013 and 2016. Those rates increased 63 percent among teens and 47 percent among millennials.

Diagnosis rates in 2016 varied by as much as 300 percent between states, from a high of 6.4 percent in Rhode Island to lows of 2.1 percent in Hawaii and 3.2 percent in Nevada.

Dr. Norman Sharpless details why doctors develop clinical trials, potential benefits, and how they bring new therapies to the rest of the world.

Diagnosis rates differed by as much or more than 400 percent among cities, from a high of 6.8 percent in Topeka, Kan., to lows of 1.5 percent in Laredo, Texas, and 2 percent in McAllen/Edinburg/Mission, Texas.

Women were twice as likely to be diagnosed with major depression than men, 6 percent vs. 3 percent, according to the health insurance company's Health of America Report, released Thursday.

People with major depression are nearly 30 percent less healthy, on average, than those without depression. Eighty-five percent of people with major depression have one or more other serious chronic health conditions, and nearly 30 percent have four or more other health conditions, according to the report authors.

People with major depression also use health care services more than those without a depression diagnosis, resulting in significantly higher health care spending -- about $10,673 compared to $4,283.

"Major depression diagnoses are growing quickly, especially for adolescents and millennials," said Trent Haywood, senior vice president and chief medical officer for Blue Cross Blue Shield.

"The high rates for adolescents and millennials could have a substantial health impact for decades to come. Further education and research is needed to identify methods for both physicians and patients to effectively treat major depression and begin a path to recovery and better overall health," Haywood said in a association news release.

One mental health expert offered some possible explanations.

"It is possible that the increased rates of depression in adolescents are related to a combination of increased electronics use and sleep disruptions in already vulnerable individuals," said Dr. Karyn Horowitz, a psychiatrist affiliated with Emma Pendleton Bradley Hospital in East Providence, R.I.

"Increased use of electronics, video games more commonly in boys and social media/texting more commonly in girls, can lead to increased conflict both within the home and with peers," she said in the release.

"In preliminary literature, high users of social media have been linked with higher rates of social isolation than low users," Haywood said. "It is important to further explore this relationship."

WebMD News from HealthDay
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: Palloy2 on May 12, 2018, 07:13:24 AM
They should have asked about those things while they were surveying for The Report, then they would be getting somewhere, and those percentages wouldn't have been so aimless and boring.  I imagine not having a job (and wanting one) would be depressing, not having a girlfriend, not having your own pace to live, and all that.
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: Eddie on May 12, 2018, 10:38:54 AM
How much of the depression that's out there is some kind of organic chemical imbalance, and how much is just a perfectly normal reaction to living in a fucked up world that fails to meet most people's basic human needs?  One that is visibly collapsing in a way that influences people on a conscious and also on a subconscious level.

People who are fully awake can't help but be depressed, I think....but I also think that those who don't get it on a conscious level are still affected, and even people in serious denial. Lying to yourself and others has pathological consequences for for the one doing the lying.

I think there is some of both, but probably much more of the latter than what is generally understood.

Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: RE on May 12, 2018, 10:42:14 AM

People who are fully awake can't help but be depressed, I think....but I also think that those who don't get it on a conscious level are still affected, and even people in serious denial. Lying to yourself and others has pathological consequences for for the one doing the lying.

Collapse doesn't depress me.  Being a cripple depresses me.

RE
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: Eddie on May 12, 2018, 10:53:08 AM
Which is perfectly understandable. How could it not?

That goes to exactly what I'm talking about.

It depresses me that no matter how hard I work that I'm always struggling to come up with my silent partner ( Uncle Sam's ) half of the booty. That I'm always one bad year away from bankruptcy. Why shouldn't I be depressed about half my income going to conduit schemes and grifting elites at the top of the food chain?





Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: Eddie on May 12, 2018, 10:57:24 AM
It's not that different really, than the fruit vendor who self-immolated and started the Arab Spring. It keeps getting harder and harder and at some point there isn't enough to go around.

Poor people might get there first but we're all going to get there at some point. Just a matter of time. Financial repression is real.
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: RE on May 12, 2018, 11:12:40 AM
Which is perfectly understandable. How could it not?

That goes to exactly what I'm talking about.

It depresses me that no matter how hard I work that I'm always struggling to come up with my silent partner ( Uncle Sam's ) half of the booty. That I'm always one bad year away from bankruptcy. Why shouldn't I be depressed about half my income going to conduit schemes and grifting elites at the top of the food chain?

Every time I go see the Bimbo PCP she asks me if I am Depressed.  I never answer yes, because I know she will prescribe anti-depressants  My answer is that I am "disappointed" in my health outcome here at the end of my life.  She doesn't have anti-disappointment med to prescribe.

RE
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: Palloy2 on May 12, 2018, 03:54:07 PM
Quote
RE: Collapse doesn't depress me.  Being a cripple depresses me.

Same here. This was surprising:

Quote
Eighty-five percent of people with major depression have one or more other serious chronic health conditions, and nearly 30 percent have four or more other health conditions, according to the report authors.

30% with four or more serious chronic health conditions - that's a lot.  Why don't they make some cheap, safe happy pills?
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: RE on May 12, 2018, 04:20:32 PM
Quote
RE: Collapse doesn't depress me.  Being a cripple depresses me.

Same here. This was surprising:

Quote
Eighty-five percent of people with major depression have one or more other serious chronic health conditions, and nearly 30 percent have four or more other health conditions, according to the report authors.

30% with four or more serious chronic health conditions - that's a lot.  Why don't they make some cheap, safe happy pills?

Let's see...

RE's chronic health problems...

1- PAD- Walking painful & difficult

2- Loss of appetite

3-  Regular constipation

4- Hives/Rash/Itch

6- Neck Pain

7- Muscle Weakness

8- Tinnitis

9- Urinary Tract/Bladder retention problems

Otherwise, I am doing fine.  ::)

RE
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: moniker on May 12, 2018, 07:00:27 PM
As mentioned previously I have suffered with chronic depression for decades and have found some relief with magnesium, adaptogen and yoga meditation. Apparently my HPA axis got messed up from an emotionally abusive childhood resulting in depression and a number of other problems. SSRIs almost killed me.

Now I am reading the SSRIs are being prescribed for Morgellons disease which Harald Kautz attributes to heavy metals exposure and chemtrails particulates. Can this be true? Does anyone know wtf is going on? How can we not be depressed with this shit?

Kautz, who seems to know the science, agrees they are trying to kill us all. In can’t argue with that.
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: Surly1 on May 13, 2018, 07:05:02 AM
As mentioned previously I have suffered with chronic depression for decades and have found some relief with magnesium, adaptogen and yoga meditation. Apparently my HPA axis got messed up from an emotionally abusive childhood resulting in depression and a number of other problems. SSRIs almost killed me.

Now I am reading the SSRIs are being prescribed for Morgellons disease which Harald Kautz attributes to heavy metals exposure and chemtrails particulates. Can this be true? Does anyone know wtf is going on? How can we not be depressed with this shit?

Kautz, who seems to know the science, agrees they are trying to kill us all. In can’t argue with that.

There is a case to be made that The Great Culling is already underway via several vectors. It will unfold over generations because Big Money is patient, until it isn't. And if enough of us "useless eaters" aren't retiring off the books quickly enough, there's always a designer pathogen waiting in the wings. Note how Trump is trying to pull back allocated money for Ebola prevention. Nice.
Title: ⛵ Avoiding Depression by having a great fantasy life
Post by: RE on May 13, 2018, 08:13:47 AM
As mentioned previously I have suffered with chronic depression for decades and have found some relief with magnesium, adaptogen and yoga meditation. Apparently my HPA axis got messed up from an emotionally abusive childhood resulting in depression and a number of other problems. SSRIs almost killed me.

Now I am reading the SSRIs are being prescribed for Morgellons disease which Harald Kautz attributes to heavy metals exposure and chemtrails particulates. Can this be true? Does anyone know wtf is going on? How can we not be depressed with this shit?

Kautz, who seems to know the science, agrees they are trying to kill us all. In can’t argue with that.

There is a case to be made that The Great Culling is already underway via several vectors. It will unfold over generations because Big Money is patient, until it isn't. And if enough of us "useless eaters" aren't retiring off the books quickly enough, there's always a designer pathogen waiting in the wings. Note how Trump is trying to pull back allocated money for Ebola prevention. Nice.

I beat those Illumination Useless Eater Exterminators.  I am 3 years of useless eating in disabled retirement and still going.  Every month of free mailbox money I get now is a bonus.

Don't miss the retirement experience.  If I was just the tiniest bit healthier, I would be having the time of my life.  I wouldn't even trade being young again for it.  I would be living on the Good Ship Doomstead Diner in the Bar Harbor Marina and running my little Bistro Bar & Restaurant the Doomstead Diner across the street on the main drag though town with all the tourist traps with a view of my boat so I could keep an eye on her during the workday.  I would be sailing the DD every weekend out to my secret cove on an uninhabited island and stocking it with Preps for SHTF Day.  In the coldest part of the winter I would sail down to South Carolina to take care of SUN☼ Bizness.

(https://cdn.acadianationalpark.com/images/content/18341_4089_Southwest_Harbor_Marina_Maine_lg.jpg)

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ea/b4/a2/eab4a2527412432dca959f7ec21d4137.jpg)

In the evenings I would be aboard the DD, Admining the Diner on the net at my Nav Station, equipped with all the latest electronic gizmos.  including a HAM Radio setup to run a digital alternet when the WWW goes down.

(http://www.sandemanyachtcompany.co.uk/images/boats/1170x600_462_157023074459c3f4e5bb299.jpg)
http://www.sandemanyachtcompany.co.uk/yacht/462/laurent-giles-donella-class-45-ft-motor-sailer-1962 (http://www.sandemanyachtcompany.co.uk/yacht/462/laurent-giles-donella-class-45-ft-motor-sailer-1962)

(http://www.sandemanyachtcompany.co.uk/images/boats/0x0_462_63514239559c3f58c477ab.jpg)

Sadly of course, numerous systems in my decrepit body are not cooperating here, so I can't live out this fantasy IRL, but I do have enough money to make it come true.  If only I were healthy...

RE
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: Eddie on May 13, 2018, 10:04:42 AM
Your fantasy sounds an awful lot like the good old fashioned capitalist American Dream, for a commie. :)


Since it's a fantasy (and a perfectly good one imho) there's no need for me to rain on your parade, but it'd take a whole LOT of money to pull that off in Bar Harbor.
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: RE on May 13, 2018, 10:18:11 AM
Your fantasy sounds an awful lot like the good old fashioned capitalist American Dream, for a commie. :)


Since it's a fantasy (and a perfectly good one imho) there's no need for me to rain on your parade, but it'd take a whole LOT of money to pull that off in Bar Harbor.

Nah.  $50K for the boat.  Another $50K down payment on the lease for the restaurant space.  Maybe $100K.  $50K for furnishings.  I might have to scrimp at the beginning with El Cheapo used tables and chairs.  I still would have left over money for emergencies, plus the monthly mailbox money.

RE
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: Palloy2 on May 13, 2018, 03:19:02 PM
Quote
Your fantasy sounds an awful lot like the good old fashioned capitalist American Dream, for a commie. :)

It certainly does, and the difficulties of running a restaurant, out the back of nowhere yet full of hungry well-heeled tourists, would require you to exploit the workers with long hours and low wages if it was to make a decent profit. 

And then you would be whining about the amount you pay in taxes, and how little you get for it in services, and how you can never find the time to get away to sail your yacht, and how expensive it is keep it ship-shape because of silly government safety regulations.
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: RE on May 13, 2018, 04:42:05 PM
Quote
Your fantasy sounds an awful lot like the good old fashioned capitalist American Dream, for a commie. :)

It certainly does, and the difficulties of running a restaurant, out the back of nowhere yet full of hungry well-heeled tourists, would require you to exploit the workers with long hours and low wages if it was to make a decent profit. 

And then you would be whining about the amount you pay in taxes, and how little you get for it in services, and how you can never find the time to get away to sail your yacht, and how expensive it is keep it ship-shape because of silly government safety regulations.

My Dad the Pigman opened a Japanese restaurant in Rio after he retired from the bank and ran it for 5 years.  I worked 3 years as sous chef and part-time bartender at Capsuto Freres, the BEST Nouvelle Cuisine restaurant in SoHo in the 1980s-90s.  I have forgotten more about the restaurant bizness than you wil ever know.  Don't tell me what a pain in the ass it is, I been there, done that, own the T-shirt.  Your problem PY is you are consumed by Negative Waves.  A person can't indulge in a little fantasy here on the Diner without you dropping in to piss on the idea, whatever it is.  Take your Negative Waves and stuff them where the SUN☼ don't shine.  You are a Grumpy Old Man sweating your balls off in the Tropical Rainforest.  I can see that would make a person irritable, but you take it too far.  Lighten Up.

http://www.youtube.com/v/ncbEucjsNFU

RE
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: Palloy2 on May 13, 2018, 06:12:18 PM
Here at DD it is standard practice to piss on RIDICULOUS fantasies, so I do.   You may have forgotten more about the restaurant business than I will ever know, which is nothing, because I hate paying lots for food as if it was all really good food. Far from sweating in the rainforest, I had get the heater out last night as I had got cold in my core and the hot water bottle could fix it. 17°C early this morning indoors !!  So you are wrong three ways in that one comment.
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: RE on May 13, 2018, 06:25:50 PM
Here at DD it is standard practice to piss on RIDICULOUS fantasies, so I do.   You may have forgotten more about the restaurant business than I will ever know, which is nothing, because I hate paying lots for food as if it was all really good food. Far from sweating in the rainforest, I had get the heater out last night as I had got cold in my core and the hot water bottle could fix it. 17°C early this morning indoors !!  So you are wrong three ways in that one comment.

It is common for YOU.  You make an art form out of it.  Nobody else takes this to the extremes you do, and nobody does it as constantly as you do.  You just fucking come here to complain about something every day.  It is tiresome.  You make Walter Mathau look like a kindly old man.

http://www.youtube.com/v/kTnEyRLMvqk

17C?  Hahahahahahahahahaha.  That is 63F!  It's a Heat Wave!  Bikini Weather!  You must be joking.  You can't really conside this cold?  ???  :icon_scratch:

RE
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: Palloy2 on May 13, 2018, 06:59:14 PM
This is a DOOM site, not a ridiculous fantasy site.  It has a life of its own, beyond what you want to make of it.  Your annoyance at me politely trashing your fantasies makes YOU the grouchy old man, not me.  Everyone knows I'm right, even you, and it irks you so much that you are about to explode with anger.  Read those last two posts of yours again, and calm down.  I don't expect an apology, though it would be nice.

Yes, I do consider 17°C cold, when the temperature here hasn't gone below 22 for six months.  It's called acclimatisation. And it's why you wouldn't consider the summer to be debilitatingly hot once you had acclimatised (takes about a year).
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: RE on May 13, 2018, 07:07:37 PM
This is a DOOM site, not a ridiculous fantasy site.  It has a life of its own, beyond what you want to make of it.  Your annoyance at me politely trashing your fantasies makes YOU the grouchy old man, not me.  Everyone knows I'm right, even you, and it irks you so much that you are about to explode with anger.  Read those last two posts of yours again, and calm down.  I don't expect an apology, though it would be nice.

Yes, I do consider 17°C cold, when the temperature here hasn't gone below 22 for six months.  It's called acclimatisation. And it's why you wouldn't consider the summer to be debilitatingly hot once you had acclimatised (takes about a year).

Nor would you likely find 0C very cold after you lived here for a year.  Acclimatizing takes about a year.  Clearly you have not acclimatized well to your environment.  You're grouchy all the time.

Insofar as what this site is about, it's what I say it is.  I own it, I pay for it and I do most of the writing for it.  You want it to be something other than what it is.  I suggest you start your own site that you pay for and write for.

RE
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: Palloy2 on May 13, 2018, 07:14:06 PM
Quote
Insofar as what this site is about, it's what I say it is.  I own it, I pay for it ...

... and I keep coming along and spoiling it, with my comments about Doom and how your fantasies are just that - fantasies.
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: RE on May 13, 2018, 07:19:03 PM
Quote
Insofar as what this site is about, it's what I say it is.  I own it, I pay for it ...

... and I keep coming along and spoiling it, with my comments about Doom and how your fantasies are just that - fantasies.

You keep coming along and trolling the site because you are an unhappy man and this is where you like to take out your frustrations.  It's pathetic.  Start your own site.  This one clearly does not live up to your high standards.  ::)

RE
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: Palloy2 on May 13, 2018, 08:04:36 PM
In my last 7 threads in Geopolitics on "wars" in Yemen, Korea, Iran, Israel, Lebanon, Turkey and Vanuatu have generated 44 replies and 1173 views, and are the only articles on the current state of WW3 on DD.
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: RE on May 13, 2018, 08:27:54 PM
In my last 7 threads in Geopolitics on "wars" in Yemen, Korea, Iran, Israel, Lebanon, Turkey and Vanuatu have generated 44 replies and 1173 views, and are the only articles on the current state of WW3 on DD.

You are very popular.  I suggest you start a WW3 Website to focus on this aspect of collapse and not be bothered by food and boat threads.

RE
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: Palloy2 on May 13, 2018, 08:34:54 PM
Quote
You are very popular. 

I'm not in it for the popularity.

This is from the Information Clearing House daily Hard News email, to give you a rough idea of how much war is going on at the moment. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info)  Unfortunately the discussion level on the articles is VERY low maturity-wise.

Israel kills 42 people in Syria in last week
https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5258491,00.html (https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5258491,00.html)

U.S. kills seventeen civilians in Syria's province
https://en.trend.az/world/arab/2902244.html (https://en.trend.az/world/arab/2902244.html)

12 Civilians Killed, 25 Injured in Idlib Bomb Attack in Syria
https://www.albawaba.com/news/12-civilians-killed-25-injured-idlib-bomb-attack-syria-1130516 (https://www.albawaba.com/news/12-civilians-killed-25-injured-idlib-bomb-attack-syria-1130516)

Syrian Army inflicts heavy losses on terrorists in al-Hajar al-Aswad
https://sana.sy/en/?p=137490 (https://sana.sy/en/?p=137490)

Merkel says Europe should do more to stop Syria war
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20180513-germanys-merkel-says-europe-should-do-more-to-stop-syria-war/ (https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20180513-germanys-merkel-says-europe-should-do-more-to-stop-syria-war/)

Five Iraqis killed, injured in dual bomb attack in Iraq's Kirkuk
https://www.iraqinews.com/iraq-war/five-iraqis-killed-injured-in-dual-bomb-attack-in-iraqs-kirkuk/ (https://www.iraqinews.com/iraq-war/five-iraqis-killed-injured-in-dual-bomb-attack-in-iraqs-kirkuk/)

Iraq vote: Initial results show PM Abadi, Muqtada al-Sadr leading
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/05/iraq-vote-initial-results-show-pm-abadi-muqtada-al-sadr-leading-180513200426674.html (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/05/iraq-vote-initial-results-show-pm-abadi-muqtada-al-sadr-leading-180513200426674.html)

Iran condemns Israel for aiding terrorists in Syria
https://en.mehrnews.com/news/133945/Iran-condemns-Israel-for-aiding-terrorists-in-Syria (https://en.mehrnews.com/news/133945/Iran-condemns-Israel-for-aiding-terrorists-in-Syria)

After Netanyahu's visit, Moscow will not hand S-300 missiles over to Syria
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20180512-after-netanyahus-visit-moscow-will-not-hand-s-300-missiles-over-to-syria/ (https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20180512-after-netanyahus-visit-moscow-will-not-hand-s-300-missiles-over-to-syria/)

Balkanizing the Middle East: The REAL Goal of America and Israel
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article44307.htm (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article44307.htm)

Israel's Yinon Plan, Saudi Wahhabism & US Wars:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/47170.htm (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/47170.htm)

Yemeni officials say fighting kills 115 in western Yemen
http://www.startribune.com/yemeni-officials-say-fighting-kills-115-in-western-yemen/482448981/ (http://www.startribune.com/yemeni-officials-say-fighting-kills-115-in-western-yemen/482448981/)

40 Houthis killed in intense fighting in Yemen's Hodeidah
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/gulf/2018/05/11/40-Houthis-killed-in-intense-fighting-Yemen-s-Hodeidah.html (http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/gulf/2018/05/11/40-Houthis-killed-in-intense-fighting-Yemen-s-Hodeidah.html)

Shocking video shows terrified Yemeni children dragged from rubble after Saudi-led bombing (GRAPHIC)
https://www.rt.com/news/426399-yemen-airstrike-sanaa-saudi/ (https://www.rt.com/news/426399-yemen-airstrike-sanaa-saudi/)

91 killed in Yemen's diphtheria outbreak: WHO
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-05/13/c_137174630.htm (http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-05/13/c_137174630.htm)

U.S. Moves Forward With Multibillion-Dollar "Smart Bomb" Sale to Saudi Arabia and UAE Despite Civilian Deaths in Yemen
https://theintercept.com/2018/05/11/american-saudi-arabia-weapons-deal-yemen-uae/ (https://theintercept.com/2018/05/11/american-saudi-arabia-weapons-deal-yemen-uae/)

Saudi military says its forces arrive on Yemen's Socotra island
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/05/saudi-military-forces-arrive-yemen-socotra-island-180513171150894.html (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/05/saudi-military-forces-arrive-yemen-socotra-island-180513171150894.html)

Yemen: UAE attempting to 'colonise' Socotra
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/05/yemen-uae-attempting-colonise-socotra-180513104819582.html (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/05/yemen-uae-attempting-colonise-socotra-180513104819582.html)

UAE extends military reach in Yemen and Somalia
https://www.reuters.com/article/uae-security-yemen-somalia/uae-extends-military-reach-in-yemen-and-somalia-idUSL8N1SI2QI (https://www.reuters.com/article/uae-security-yemen-somalia/uae-extends-military-reach-in-yemen-and-somalia-idUSL8N1SI2QI)

Netanyahu Met Top UAE Diplomat in DC Restaurant in March, Report Says
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/netanyahu-met-top-uae-diplomat-in-d-c-in-march-report-says-1.6076619 (https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/netanyahu-met-top-uae-diplomat-in-d-c-in-march-report-says-1.6076619)

Israelis clash with Palestinians on Temple Mount ahead of charged week (VIDEO)
https://www.rt.com/news/426597-jerusalem-clashes-palestinians-israelis/ (https://www.rt.com/news/426597-jerusalem-clashes-palestinians-israelis/)

Trump to deliver video address at Jerusalem embassy opening
https://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-to-deliver-video-address-at-jerusalem-embassy-opening/ (https://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-to-deliver-video-address-at-jerusalem-embassy-opening/)

Jared Kunsher, Ivanka Trump and Steven Mnuchin land in Israel for Jerusalem embassy opening
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6ZdAyapaLw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6ZdAyapaLw)

For Palestinians, the Nakba is a disaster that continues to this day
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-for-palestinians-the-nakba-is-a-disaster-that-continues-to-this-day/ (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-for-palestinians-the-nakba-is-a-disaster-that-continues-to-this-day/)

New Book Makes the Case Against Israeli Brutality
https://theintercept.com/2018/05/13/as-gaza-sinks-into-desperation-a-new-book-makes-the-case-against-israeli-brutality/ (https://theintercept.com/2018/05/13/as-gaza-sinks-into-desperation-a-new-book-makes-the-case-against-israeli-brutality/)

Russia will work towards ensuring US sanctions on Iran won't abolish nuclear deal - Lavrov
http://tass.com/politics/1003668 (http://tass.com/politics/1003668)

Germany, Russia reiterate commitment to Iran nuclear deal
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-05/11/c_137172757.htm (http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-05/11/c_137172757.htm)

UK PM May says committed to ensuring Iran deal is upheld
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-nuclear-britain/uk-pm-may-says-committed-to-ensuring-iran-deal-is-upheld-idUSKCN1IE0X5 (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-nuclear-britain/uk-pm-may-says-committed-to-ensuring-iran-deal-is-upheld-idUSKCN1IE0X5)

US threatens European companies with sanctions after Iran deal pullout
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/13/us-sanctions-european-countries-iran-deal-donald-trump (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/13/us-sanctions-european-countries-iran-deal-donald-trump)

EU to consider blocking US sanctions over Iran
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-nuclear-eu-business/in-1990s-redux-eu-to-consider-blocking-u-s-sanctions-over-iran-idUSKBN1IA2PV (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-nuclear-eu-business/in-1990s-redux-eu-to-consider-blocking-u-s-sanctions-over-iran-idUSKBN1IA2PV)

CNPC set to replace Total in Iran gas project:
China's state-owned CNPC is set to take over a leading role held by Total in a huge gas project in Iran in case the French energy giant decides to quit amid US sanctions against the Islamic Republic.
http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2018/05/11/561379/CNPC-set-to-replace-Total-in-Iran-gas-project (http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2018/05/11/561379/CNPC-set-to-replace-Total-in-Iran-gas-project)

PETER HITCHENS: Are we about to join ANOTHER idiotic war like feeble minions?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-5722499/PETER-HITCHENS-join-idiotic-war-like-feeble-minions.html#ixzz5FORi30KP (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-5722499/PETER-HITCHENS-join-idiotic-war-like-feeble-minions.html#ixzz5FORi30KP)

Fighting leaves over 30 casualties in Libya's south
http://www.libyanexpress.com/tribal-fighting-for-sabha-citadel-leaves-over-30-casualties-in-libyas-south/ (http://www.libyanexpress.com/tribal-fighting-for-sabha-citadel-leaves-over-30-casualties-in-libyas-south/)

26 people killed in Burundi 'terrorist' attack, official says
https://www.stripes.com/news/africa/26-people-killed-in-burundi-terrorist-attack-official-says-1.526736 (https://www.stripes.com/news/africa/26-people-killed-in-burundi-terrorist-attack-official-says-1.526736)

Somalia: 17 Killed in Market Blast, Fighting
https://www.voanews.com/a/somalia-13-militants-4-civilians-killed-in-market-blast-fighting/4391141.html (https://www.voanews.com/a/somalia-13-militants-4-civilians-killed-in-market-blast-fighting/4391141.html)

U.S. kills 5 civilians in Somalia: elders
https://www.nation.co.ke/news/africa/Five-killed-in--US-raid--in-Somalia--elders/1066-4555902-14olqut/index.html (https://www.nation.co.ke/news/africa/Five-killed-in--US-raid--in-Somalia--elders/1066-4555902-14olqut/index.html)

DR Congo: Kidnapped Britons released
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-44101319 (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-44101319)

Taliban Kill Over 100 Afghan Soldiers and Police Officers in One Week
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/13/world/asia/afghanistan-taliban-offensive.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/13/world/asia/afghanistan-taliban-offensive.html)

9 Killed, Over 30 Wounded in Gunfight in Nangarhar
https://www.tolonews.com/afghanistan/explosion-gunfire-reported-nangarhar%C3%A2%E2%82%AC%E2%84%A2s-jalalabad-city (https://www.tolonews.com/afghanistan/explosion-gunfire-reported-nangarhar%C3%A2%E2%82%AC%E2%84%A2s-jalalabad-city)

13 killed, 41 Hurt in Indonesia Church Bombing
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2018-05-13/13-dead-41-hurt-in-indonesia-church-bombing-video (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2018-05-13/13-dead-41-hurt-in-indonesia-church-bombing-video)

Indonesia church bombings carried out by parents - and their four children
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/05/13/indonesia-church-bombings-deadly-parents-children/605788002/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/05/13/indonesia-church-bombings-deadly-parents-children/605788002/)

North Korea vows to dismantle nuclear test site within weeks as Trump applauds 'smart and gracious' move
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/12/north-korea-vows-to-dismantle-nuclear-test-site-within-weeks-invites-world-press-to-watch.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/12/north-korea-vows-to-dismantle-nuclear-test-site-within-weeks-invites-world-press-to-watch.html)

Pompeo: US firms could invest in North Korea and Kim may get 'security assurances'
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/13/pompeo-us-firms-invest-north-korea-kim-jong-un-security-assurances (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/13/pompeo-us-firms-invest-north-korea-kim-jong-un-security-assurances)

Trump Backs Down On China Threat: Instructs Commerce Dept To Rescue ZTE:
It appears China's threats of retaliation against Trump's ban on giant Chinese telecoms company ZTE have sunk in.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-05-13/trump-backs-down-china-threat-instructs-commerce-dept-rescue-zte (https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-05-13/trump-backs-down-china-threat-instructs-commerce-dept-rescue-zte)

Paris knife attacker kills one and wounds four before being shot dead
http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/paris-knife-attacker-kills-one-wounds-four-being-slain-police-1290383532 (http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/paris-knife-attacker-kills-one-wounds-four-being-slain-police-1290383532)

Angela Merkel: Europe Can No Longer Rely on U.S. Protection:
Europe cannot put all of its trust in the U.S. when it comes to protection and should instead "take its destiny into its own hands," German Chancellor Angela Merkel has said.
http://www.newsweek.com/europe-cannot-fully-rely-us-protection-anymore-says-germanys-merkel-919410 (http://www.newsweek.com/europe-cannot-fully-rely-us-protection-anymore-says-germanys-merkel-919410)

Bolivian President Evo Morales Warns of Plan 'to Invade Venezuela' by US, OAS
http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Bolivian-President-Evo-Morales-Warns-of-Plan-to-Invade-Venezuela-by-US-OAS-20180513-0008.html (http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Bolivian-President-Evo-Morales-Warns-of-Plan-to-Invade-Venezuela-by-US-OAS-20180513-0008.html)
Quote
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: RE on May 13, 2018, 08:45:34 PM
Quote
You are very popular. 

I'm not in it for the popularity.

That's true.  You're in it to be an annoying troll with no sense of humor who should start his own website rather than pitching Negative Waves all the time on other people's websites.

RE
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: BuddyJ on May 13, 2018, 09:28:04 PM
Which is perfectly understandable. How could it not?

That goes to exactly what I'm talking about.

It depresses me that no matter how hard I work that I'm always struggling to come up with my silent partner ( Uncle Sam's ) half of the booty. That I'm always one bad year away from bankruptcy. Why shouldn't I be depressed about half my income going to conduit schemes and grifting elites at the top of the food chain?

Is that really grounds for depression? It isn't as though conduit schemes are the only thing our elected representatives steal our money for, someone has to cover the difference between forced contributions and the largess of unemployment comp and disability for obesity and alcoholism, how will we pay for roads if the government can't steal money from the folks that have more of it, the military needs more guns and bombs to make sure consumers can...consume!

Look how great it has worked out in Venezuela!   /s
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: Palloy2 on May 14, 2018, 06:16:31 AM
Quote
RE: You're in it to be an annoying troll

That's just not true and you know it.  You ought to seriously consider what this rude and unfair attack on me is doing to the DD audience.  Who would want to take part in the discussion if they are going to be attacked like this and called a troll, just because I would rather have an intelligent discussion on geopolitical issues than have a laugh about your ridiculous fantasies and your endless meals.  Why can't you take a bit of criticism of yourself, because you ARE boring when you bang on about restaurants and huge bricks of meat.  Instead of telling me to not read those threads on this Doom site, why don't you post them to a restaurant site?
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: Eddie on May 14, 2018, 06:18:10 AM
Which is perfectly understandable. How could it not?

That goes to exactly what I'm talking about.

It depresses me that no matter how hard I work that I'm always struggling to come up with my silent partner ( Uncle Sam's ) half of the booty. That I'm always one bad year away from bankruptcy. Why shouldn't I be depressed about half my income going to conduit schemes and grifting elites at the top of the food chain?

Is that really grounds for depression? It isn't as though conduit schemes are the only thing our elected representatives steal our money for, someone has to cover the difference between forced contributions and the largess of unemployment comp and disability for obesity and alcoholism, how will we pay for roads if the government can't steal money from the folks that have more of it, the military needs more guns and bombs to make sure consumers can...consume!

Look how great it has worked out in Venezuela!   /s


 There are many, many more conduit schemes associated with the military budget, the transportation budget, and the social welfare/healthcare budget. It's ALL a fat pork pie to be divided up between the major corporations and their lackeys in DC.

Don't blame what's happening in Venezuela on socialism. I don't like Maduro, and I didn't like Chavez. They are/were corrupt as hell, but the real problem is the decline in oil prices, not socialism.

Venezuela was, for a long, long time, an oil welfare state like Saudi, and in the old days it was the crony capitalists that got the lions share, but with plenty left to trickle down to the lower classes. When PO came along, it hit them like a ton of bricks. Chavez, like Trump, was a symptom and not the real disease.  I wouldn't be surprised to see a military coup at some point, but no matter what happens, their fate is tied to demand for their crude.
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: Surly1 on May 14, 2018, 04:47:52 PM

Don't blame what's happening in Venezuela on socialism. I don't like Maduro, and I didn't like Chavez. They are/were corrupt as hell, but the real problem is the decline in oil prices, not socialism.

Venezuela was, for a long, long time, an oil welfare state like Saudi, and in the old days it was the crony capitalists that got the lions share, but with plenty left to trickle down to the lower classes. When PO came along, it hit them like a ton of bricks.

This is absolutely the truth. The price of oil, plus wholesale covert ratfucking by the FSoA, as well as "sanctions" of the sort we apply to any government which fails to drop to its knees, part its lips and swallow the company song. See Libya.
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: Palloy2 on May 14, 2018, 05:48:31 PM
Quote
Eddie: I don't like Maduro, and I didn't like Chavez. They are/were corrupt as hell, but the real problem is the decline in oil prices, not socialism.

Corrupt as hell? Need some evidence for that, or it might be US brainwashing.
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: jdwheeler42 on May 14, 2018, 06:22:19 PM
In my last 7 threads in Geopolitics on "wars" in Yemen, Korea, Iran, Israel, Lebanon, Turkey and Vanuatu have generated 44 replies and 1173 views, and are the only articles on the current state of WW3 on DD.
You are very popular.  I suggest you start a WW3 Website to focus on this aspect of collapse and not be bothered by food and boat threads.
It's your dime and his time, but I do like the articles Palloy posts on the current state of war in the world; most other sources are very much focused on the official US government narrative, whether or not they approve of it.

I also find Palloy's computer articles to be extremely informative, and his narratives about life in the tropical rain forest to be fascinating.
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: Eddie on May 14, 2018, 06:43:24 PM
Quote
Eddie: I don't like Maduro, and I didn't like Chavez. They are/were corrupt as hell, but the real problem is the decline in oil prices, not socialism.

Corrupt as hell? Need some evidence for that, or it might be US brainwashing.

Corruption in Venezuela is so prevalent it has its own Wiki page.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Venezuela

 Transparency International's 2016 Corruption Perception Index ranks the country 166th place out of 176 countries.[3]

A 2014 Gallup poll found that 75% of Venezuelans believed that corruption was widespread throughout the Venezuelan government.[4] Discontent with corruption was cited by opposition-aligned groups as one of the reasons for the 2014 and 2017 Venezuelan protests.[5]


The Corruption Perceptions Index, produced annually by Berlin-based NGO Transparency International (TNI) ranked Venezuela among the most corrupt countries in the world[32] A 2013 survey by TNI in 2013 found that 68% of those believed that the government's efforts to fight corruption were ineffective; a majority of those surveyed said the government's effort against corruption were ineffective, that corruption had increased from 2007 to 2010, and perceived political parties, the judiciary, the parliament and the police to be the institutions most affected by corruption.[33] In 2014, the World Justice Project ranked Venezuela's government in 99th place worldwide and gave it the worst ranking of countries in Latin America according to the Rule of Law Index 2014[28] and in 2015, the World Justice Project's Rule of Law Index 2015 report placed Venezuela as having the worst rule of law in the world, with the majority of Venezuelans believing that the Venezuelan government was not held accountable under the law, was corrupt, lacked transparency and did not respect the privacy of citizens.[34]

Hugo Chávez (1999–2013)
In December 1998, Hugo Chávez declared three goals for the new government; "convening a constituent assembly to write a new constitution, eliminating government corruption, and fighting against social exclusion and poverty". However, during Hugo Chávez's time in power, corruption has become widespread throughout the government due to impunity towards members of the government, bribes and the lack of transparency.[6] In 2004, Hugo Chávez and his allies took over the Supreme Court, filling it with supporters of Chávez and made new measures so the government could dismiss justices from the court.[35] According to the Cato Institute, the National Electoral Council of Venezuela was under control of Chávez where he tried to "push a constitutional reform that would have allowed him unlimited opportunities for reelection".[25] Some criticisms of corruption came from Chávez's own supporters, with Chávez's initial political party, the Fifth Republic Movement (MVR), being criticized as being riddled with the same cronyism, political patronage, and corruption that Chávez alleged were characteristic of the old "Fourth Republic" political parties.[36][37][38]

Public funds
In early 2000, Chávez's friend and co-conspirator in the 1992 Venezuelan coup d'état attempts Jesus Urdaneta was appointed head of Venezuela's intelligence agency, DISIP. Urdaneta began receiving reports that Chávez's allies, Luis Miquilena, leader of the National Assembly and José Vicente Rangel, Chávez's foreign minister, were keeping public funds for themselves. Urdaneta brought this to Chávez's attention, but Chávez ignored his advice saying that he needed the political experience of both men in order to establish power.[39]

$22.5 billion of public funds have been transferred from Venezuela to foreign accounts with half of that money being unaccounted for by anyone.[25] José Guerra, a former Central Bank executive, claims that most of that money has been used to buy political allies in countries such as Cuba and Bolivia.[25] Chávez reportedly made promises and carried out most payments of nearly $70 billion USD to foreign leaders without the consultation of the people of Venezuela and without normal legal procedures.[25]

Maletinazo scandal
Main article: Maletinazo
In August 2007, Guido Alejandro Antonini Wilson (es), a self-identified member of the entourage of Hugo Chávez, who was about to visit Argentina, arrived in Argentina on a private flight paid for by Argentine and Venezuelan state officials. Wilson was carrying $800,000 USD in cash, which the police seized on arrival. A few days later Wilson, a Venezuelan-American and a close friend of Chávez's, was a guest at a signing ceremony involving Cristina Kirchner and Chávez at the Casa Rosada. He was later arrested on money laundering and contraband charges. It was alleged that the cash was to have been delivered to the Kirchner's as a clandestine contribution to Cristina's campaign chest from President Chávez. Fernández, as a fellow leftist, was a political ally of Chávez. This was seen as a similar move that Chávez allegedly used to give payments to leftist candidates in presidential races for Bolivia and Mexico in order to back his anti-US allies.[40] The incident led to a scandal and what Bloomberg News called "an international imbroglio," with the U.S. accusing five men of being secret Chávez agents whose mission was to cover up the attempt to deliver the cash.[41][42]

According to the United States Department of Defense's PRISM journal, the $800,000 in cash may have also been a payment from Iran to Cristina Kirchner. It was alleged that Chávez helped a deal for Iran to obtain nuclear technology from Argentina and to cover up the AMIA bombing information, with Venezuela also purchasing Argentine debt in the dealing. Iranian and Argentine relations improved shortly after the incident.[43]

Nicolás Maduro (2013–present)

Diosdado Cabello beside Nicolás Maduro and his wife, Cilia Flores.
President Nicolás Maduro and his wife Cilia Flores have been accused of nepotism, with individuals claiming that several of her close relatives became employees of the National Assembly when she became elected deputy.[44][45] According to the Venezuelan newspaper Tal Cual, 16 relatives of Flores were in an office while she was in the National Assembly.[46] In 2012, relatives of Flores were removed from office.[46] However, relatives that were removed from office found other occupations in the government a year later.[47] President Maduro's son and other relatives have also been used as examples of alleged nepotism.[47]

“It’s been a big year for Maduro ... I think this year has been the tipping point and his negligence, incompetence and corruption are the cause. When a country’s leader can watch his people starve and still oversee a government stealing $70 billion a year all while his family deals drugs, it’s a special kind of evil. He deserves this prize.
Drew Sullivan, co-founder of OCCRP[48]

Allegations have also been made that Maduro had cooperated with the Islamist militant group, Hezbollah as well as the Syrian govern receive funds on the market.[49][50][51][52]

As 2016 concluded, the Organized Crime and Corruption Reporting Project (OCCRP), an international non-governmental organization that investigates crime and corruption, gave President Maduro the Person of the Year Award that "recognizes the individual who has done the most in the world to advance organized criminal activity and corruption". The OCCRP stated that they had "chose Maduro for the global award on the strength of his corrupt and oppressive reign, so rife with mismanagement that citizens of his oil-rich nation are literally starving and begging for medicines" and that Maduro and his family steal millions of dollars from government coffers to fund patronage that maintains President Maduro's power in Venezuela. The group also explains how Maduro had overruled the legislative branch filled with opposition politicians, repressed citizen protests and had relatives involved in drug trafficking.[48]



Yeah, just brainwashing. In your dreams, Commandante Palloy.
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: Palloy2 on May 14, 2018, 07:41:49 PM
But that's all US's point of view. 

OCCRP is funded by USAID.
Transparency International expelled its US branch in 2017 because of "the board's recognition of differences in philosophies, strategies, and priorities between the former chapter and the Transparency International Movement."
"A 2014 Gallup poll found that 75% of Venezuelans believed that ..."
"Discontent with corruption was cited by opposition-aligned groups as one of the reasons for the 2014 and 2017 Venezuelan protests.[5]"

Wikipedia cannot be trusted in areas that are contentious political ideas.
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: RE on May 14, 2018, 08:58:18 PM
"Goobermintt" and "Corrupr" are pretty much synonymous terms.  Every Goobermint on on the globe of whatever ideological flavor and whatever side of the Left-Right divide is corrupt.  The question is how much corruption and how quickly money gets drained from the public good to private hands.  This is an incredibly opaque thing to try to measure in any reasonable fashion from newz stories or any numbers published by Goobermint agencies.

In the case of Venezuela though, it is pretty obvious what caused that rapid collapse situation.  Loans from the IMF, falling Oil Prices and depleting Oil reserves.  Had little to do with "socialism".

RE
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: Nearingsfault on May 14, 2018, 09:09:20 PM
But that's all US's point of view. 

OCCRP is funded by USAID.
Transparency International expelled its US branch in 2017 because of "the board's recognition of differences in philosophies, strategies, and priorities between the former chapter and the Transparency International Movement."
"A 2014 Gallup poll found that 75% of Venezuelans believed that ..."
"Discontent with corruption was cited by opposition-aligned groups as one of the reasons for the 2014 and 2017 Venezuelan protests.[5]"

Wikipedia cannot be trusted in areas that are contentious political ideas.
i stumbled upon this site a while back. I think its fairly well rounded and helped me get some info on Venezuelan realities that have not been washed and rewashed to the point of being meaningless. Nitty gritty day to day stuff. I'd be interested what others think of it tool of the establishment or fairly balanced?  https://venezuelanalysis.com
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: Eddie on May 14, 2018, 09:28:41 PM
The site strikes me as a legitimate but of course very left-leaning publication.....of the "Bolivarian Process" which is pro-Chavez.

I'm not surprised to see socialism trying to get a foothold in countries like Venezuela, which had a corruption problem long before they had socialism. Socialism is a reaction to the crony capitalism of the old guard, the ones who are trying to oust Maduro now. The right-wingers, who are the old elites, are trying to undercut Maduro any way they can. And the US State Dept. is now run by Pompeo. The US is doing everything they can to support the old elites, who would be happy to let the US call the shots.

Bu that doesn't mean Chavez's cronies weren't corrupt. They were, and so is Maduro.

RE is mostly correct, although Venezuela still has substantial reserves, I think.
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: RE on May 14, 2018, 10:01:18 PM

RE is mostly correct, although Venezuela still has substantial reserves, I think.

I think the reserves are over-stated, and the economics of dragging them up is dicey even at the current relatively high prices.  I don't think they are much more profitable than Canuck Tar Sands or Fracking, and the Venezuelans don't have access to the credit market to keep pumping while losing money.

RE
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: K-Dog on May 15, 2018, 12:01:24 AM
A thread off the rails.  Good I need one.  Palloy may be the expert here.  As Americans I think we are totally snowed when it comest to info on Iran.  To what extent has Iran been causing mayhem in the world?  Kunstler's trolls seem most happy to agree with him that they cause mayhem as bad as the U.S. does.  There is the perennial narrative of Shiites in Lebanon or something which wanes in and out of American focus like a short period comet.  Background noise, there but never quite loud or important enough to pay much attention to.  That comet has been coming and going all my life.  What is it doing now?

I'm dubious.  I don't see Iran having the budget for much mayhem but what is the scoop about Iran in Syria?  They have a hard on for Israel it seems, but anyone else but them and us chickens?   Israel is no angel and you can't trust their explanation worth a shit.  The shit they rare pulling these days they'd get down on any excuse.

(https://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/Images/2018/5/14/22a843bb2ae34e5ea371c26e9071c76d_8.jpg)
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: Palloy2 on May 15, 2018, 07:04:09 AM
Quote
Eddie: Bu that doesn't mean Chavez's cronies weren't corrupt. They were, and so is Maduro.

Aw, c'mon!!  I just pointed out that all your sources were biased crap, and your response is to just repeat what you said.  That's an absolutely certain sign of brainwashing - a total inability to change your mind, while being exactly in step with the MSM .
Title: 😞 Hospitals See Growing Numbers Of Kids And Teens At Risk For Suicide
Post by: RE on May 16, 2018, 02:15:31 AM
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/05/16/611407972/hospitals-see-growing-numbers-of-kids-and-teens-at-risk-for-suicide (https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/05/16/611407972/hospitals-see-growing-numbers-of-kids-and-teens-at-risk-for-suicide)

Hospitals See Growing Numbers Of Kids And Teens At Risk For Suicide

May 16, 201812:01 AM ET

Tara Haelle
(https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2018/05/15/school-hallway-1_custom-fcc496cb727c93c7782affae11772eba37e48f6c-s800-c85.jpg)
Teens are visiting the hospital with thoughts of suicide more frequently.
arabianEye/Getty Images

The number of kids who struggle with thoughts of suicide – or attempt to kill themselves – is rising. New research, published Wednesday in Pediatrics finds children ages 5-17 visited children's hospitals for suicidal thoughts or attempts about twice as often in 2015 as in 2008.

The study found kids of all ages are affected though increases were greatest for older adolescents.

Lead author Gregory Plemmons, a pediatrician and researcher at Vanderbilt University in Nashville, Tenn., says the study results confirmed what he'd been seeing at the hospital.

He says he hopes clinicians and families take note. "The number one thing to take home is that it's important to talk about this and important to ask about it," he says.

The findings line up with past data showing a steady increase in teen suicide over the past decade. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported last year that a drop in adolescent suicide in the 1990s and early 2000s reversed course in 2008, though it's not yet reached peak levels seen in the 1980s. It's not clear what has contributed to the increase, but the study noted the 2008 financial crisis may be one factor among others.

Plemmons and his co-researchers examined 2008-2015 billing data from a database of 49 children's hospitals across the U.S. They included all emergency department encounters, stays for observation and inpatient hospitalizations at those hospitals, but did not include community hospitals.
Students, Parents And Suicide: What's The Role Of The University? May 15, 2018

The researchers turned up 115,856 visits for suicidal ideation or attempts, during the seven-year period. Such visits represented 0.7 percent of total children's hospital visits in 2008 but by 2015 had increased to 1.8 percent of all visits. More than half the visits required at least one night of hospitalization, and nearly 1 in 7 required intensive care.

Older teens were more likely to end up in the hospital and had the greater increase in hospital visits. About half of suicide-related hospital visits for the time studied were from teens ages 15-17, but 12- to 14-year-olds closely trailed them, making up 37 percent of visits. Children ages 5-11 made up the remaining 13 percent.

One of the study's most striking findings was a seasonal trend in hospital visits. Throughout the years, visits peaked in mid-fall and mid-spring and fell to the lowest point in the summer. "We knew there was an association with school seasons, but actually seeing that mapped out was surprising," says Plemmons. It suggests a link with school pressures.

"It really speaks to the stress and the strain at school," says Dr. Robert Dicker, associate director of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry at Zucker Hillside Hospital in Glen Oaks, New York. "Kids appear to be under much more academic success to achieve and their perception of falling short."

Dicker, who was not involved in the study, also noted possible influences from the media, particularly social media.

Plemmons also drew attention to social media's influence. "You're becoming more disconnected and not having relationships with real people, and at the same time you're being fed a false distortion of what reality is, where everything looks great on screen," he says.

Cyberbullying and sexting he adds, could also be risk factors. "These kids have to deal with pressures that we didn't deal with."

Other possible contributors noted in the study included earlier puberty in girls, since reaching puberty is a risk factor for suicide. Girls made up two-thirds of the hospital visits in the study period.

But none of these possibilities is definitive.

"This type of study is very good at revealing trends but cannot address causality," says Dr. Laurel Williams, chief of psychiatry at Texas Children's Hospital in Houston, Texas. Despite being the third leading cause of death in adolescents, suicide is still relatively rare, making it harder to study causes, she says.

But it is important to screen for depression and anxiety, she says. Her institution also uses validated screening tools to screen adolescents and is exploring tele-consultation strategies to help pediatricians manage cases if they feel underprepared or uncomfortable.

"We know there are a lot of patients still out there who have clinical depression who are not accessing care," Plemmons says, adding that it's important for adults to identify resources in their area for struggling teens. Parents can start with their child's primary care doctor.

But the most important first step is one anyone can take.

"The current best method for identifying risk is to ask," Williams says. "Asking a young person how they are feeling, not just how they are doing, is essential. We need to give young people the time and space to talk about how they are feeling. This involves developing closer relationships over time, not something you can scramble at the last minute or only in moments of crisis."

Plemmons also emphasized the importance of talking to adolescents about the issue.

"There's still a huge stigma and anything you can do to destigmatize it helps," he says, adding that a fear still exists among some pediatricians and parents that discussing suicide may suggest it to adolescents.

"We know from literature that that's not the case," Plemmons says. "Talking about it can sometimes help reduce the risk."
Title: 😞 Slow Suicide and the Abandonment of the World
Post by: RE on June 22, 2018, 12:03:07 AM
https://www.greanvillepost.com/2018/06/21/slow-suicide-and-the-abandonment-of-the-world/ (https://www.greanvillepost.com/2018/06/21/slow-suicide-and-the-abandonment-of-the-world/)

Slow Suicide and the Abandonment of the World

Slow Suicide and the Abandonment of the World


 

Widespread media coverage may have contributed to a 10% increase in suicides following Robin Williams’ highly publicized death by suicide in August 2014. CDC data revealed that there were 18,690 deaths by suicide in the U.S.significantly more than the 16,849 suicides that past data and trends would have predicted for that time period.


 “The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious, of being out of one’s mind, is the condition of the normal man.  Society highly values its normal man.  It educates children to lose themselves and to become absurd, and thus to be normal.  Normal men have killed perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years.  Our behavior is a function of our experience.  We act the way we see things. If our experience is destroyed, our behavior will be destructive.  If our experience is destroyed, we have lost our own selves.”

– R.D. Laing, The Politics of Experience, 1967

“The artist is the man who refuses initiation through education into the existing order, remains faithful to his own childhood being, and thus becomes ‘a human being in the spirit of all times, an artist.’”   

– Norman O. Brown, Life Against Death                      


Most suicides die of natural causes, slowly and in silence. 

But we hear a lot about the small number of suicides, by comparison, who kill themselves quickly by their own hands.  Of course their sudden deaths elicit shock and sadness since their deaths, usually so unexpected even when not a surprise, allow for no return.  Such sudden once-and-for-all endings are even more jarring in a high-tech world where people are subconsciously habituated to thinking that everything can be played back, repeated, and rewound, even lives. 

If the suicides are celebrities, the mass media can obsess over why they did it.  How shocking!  Wasn’t she at the peak of her career?  Didn’t he finally seem happy?  And then the speculative stories will appear about the reasons for the rise or fall of suicide rates, only to disappear as quickly as the celebrities are dropped by the media and forgotten by the public.

The suicides of ordinary people will be mourned privately by their loved ones in their individual ways and in the silent recesses of their hearts.  A hush will fall over their departures that will often be viewed as accidental.


Williams’ suicide stunned many people probably due to his ostensible insouciant and ebullient public persona. (Photo: Eva Rinaldi)

And the world will roll on as the earth absorbs the bodies and the blood.  “Where’s it all going all this spilled blood,” writes the poet Jacques Prévert.  “Murder’s blood…war’s blood… blood of suicides…the earth that turns and turns with its great streams of blood.”

Of such suicides Albert Camus said, “Dying voluntarily implies you have recognized, even instinctively, the ridiculous character of that habit [of living], the absence of any profound reason for living, the insane character of that daily agitation, and the uselessness of suffering.”  He called this feeling the absurd, and said it was widespread and involved the feeling of being an alien or stranger in a world that couldn’t be explained and didn’t make sense.  Assuming this experience of the absurd, Camus wished to explore whether suicide was a solution to it.  He concluded that it wasn’t.

Like Camus, I am interested in asking what is the meaning of life.  “How to answer it?” he asked in The Myth of Sisyphus.  He added that “the meaning of life is the most urgent of questions.”  But I don’t want to explore his line of reasoning to his conclusions, whether to agree or disagree.  I wish, rather, to explore the reasons why so many people choose to commit slow suicide by immersing themselves in the herd mentality and following a way of life that leads to inauthenticity and despair; why so many people so easily and early give up their dreams of a life of freedom for a proverbial mess of pottage, which these days can be translated to mean a consumer’s life, one focused on staying safe by embracing conventional bromides and making sure to never openly question a system based on systemic violence in all its forms; why, despite all evidence to the contrary, so many people embrace getting and spending and the accumulation of wealth in the pursuit of a chimerical “happiness” that leaves them depressed and conscience dead.  Why so many people do not rebel but wish to take their places on this ship of fools.


Camus lived life like a central casting version of the Paris intellectual, down to the perennial cig dangling from his lips. Life ambushed him on a highway in Villeblevin, his ideas about many things, unresolved. He was 46.

So what can we say about the vast numbers of people who commit slow suicide by a series of acts and inactions that last a long lifetime and render them the living dead, those whom Thoreau so famously said were the mass of people who “lead lives of quiet desperation”?  Is the meaning of life for them simply the habit of living they fell into at the start of life before they thought or wondered what’s it all about?  Or is it the habit they embraced after shrinking back in fear from the disturbing revelations thinking once brought them?  Or did they ever seriously question their place in the lethal fraud that is organized society, what Tolstoy called the Social Lie?  Why do so many people kill their authentic selves and their consciences that could awaken them to break through the social habits of thought, speech, and action that lead them to live “jiffy lube” lives, periodically oiled and greased to smoothly roll down the conventional highway of getting and spending and refusing to resist the murderous actions of their government?

An unconscious despair rumbles beneath the frenetic surface of American society today.  An unspoken nothingness.  I think the Italian writer Robert Calasso says it well: “The new society is an agnostic theocracy based on nihilism.”  It’s as though we are floating on nothing, sustained by nothing, in love with nothing – all the while embracing any thing that a materialistic, capitalist consumer culture can throw at us.  We are living in an empire of illusions, propagandized and self-deluded.  Most people will tell you they are stressed and depressed, but will often add – “who wouldn’t be with the state of the world” – ignoring their complicity through the way they have chosen compromised, conventional lives devoid of the spirit of rebellion.

I keep meeting people who, when I ask them how they are, will respond by saying, “I’m hanging in there.” 

Don’t common sayings intimate unconscious truths?  Hang – among its possible derivatives is the word “habit” and the meaning of “coming to a standstill.”  Stuck in one’s habits, dangling over nothing, up in the air, going nowhere, hanging by a string. Slow suicides. The Beatles’ sang it melodically: “He’s a real nowhere man/Sitting in his nowhere land/Making all his nowhere plans for nobody/Doesn’t have a point of view/Knows not where he’s going to/Isn’t he a bit like you and me.”  It’s a far cry from having “the world on a string,” as Harold Arlen wrote many years before. 

Maybe if we listen to how people talk or what popular culture throws up, we will learn more through creative associations than through all the theories the experts have to offer. 

We’ve had more than a century of pseudo-scientific studies of suicide and the world has gotten much worse.  More than a century of psychotherapy and people have grown progressively more depressed.  Large and increasing numbers are drugged to the teeth with pharmaceutical drugs and television and the internet and cell phones and shopping and endless talk about food and diets and sports and nothing.

  There have been many learned tomes over the years trying to explain the act of suicide, an early and very famous one being Emile Durkheim’s groundbreaking sociological analysis Suicide (1897).  In thousands of books and articles other thinkers have approached the subject from various perspectives – psychological, philosophical, biological, etc.  They contain much truth and a vast amount of data that appeal to the rational mind seeking general explanations.  But in the end, general explanations are exactly that – general – while a mystery usually haunts the living whose loved ones have killed themselves.

But what about the slow suicides, those D. H. Lawrence called the living dead (don’t let “the living dead eat you up”), those who have departed the real world for a conscienceless complacency from which they can cast aspersions on those whose rebellious spirits give them little rest.  Where are the expert disquisitions about them?


Dr Phil dispenses daily mundane advice to the masses from his television perch, facilitated by his mentor, Oprah. The man is a quintessentially American cultural product.

We’ve had more than a century of pseudo-scientific studies of suicide and the world has gotten much worse.  More than a century of psychotherapy and people have grown progressively more depressed.  Large and increasing numbers are drugged to the teeth with pharmaceutical drugs and television and the internet and cell phones and shopping and endless talk about food and diets and sports and nothing. Talk to talk, surface to surface. Pundits pontificate daily in streams of endless bullshit for which they are paid enormous sums as they smile with their fake whiter-than-white teeth flashing from their makeup masks.  People actually listen to these fools to “inform” themselves. They even watch television news and think they know what is happening in the world.  We are drowning in a “universe of disembodied data,” as playwright John Steppling has so aptly phrased it.  People obsessively hover over their cell phones, searching for the key that will unlock the cells they have locked themselves in. Postliteracy, mediated reality, and digital dementia have become the norm.  Minds are packaged and commodified.  Perhaps you think I exaggerate, but I feel that madness is much more the norm today than when Laing penned his epigraphic comment.

Not stark raving screaming madness, just a slow, whimpering acceptance of an insane society whose very fabric is toxic and which continues its God-ordained mission of spreading death and destruction around the world in the name of freedom and democracy, while so many of its walking dead citizens measure out their lives with coffee spoons.  A nice madness, you could say, a pleasant, depressed and repressed madness.  A madness in which people might say with T. S. Eliot’s J. Alfred Prufrock (if they still read or could remember):  “I have measured out my life with coffee spoons…And I have seen the eternal Footman hold my coat, / and snicker, / And in short, I was afraid.”

But why are so many so afraid?  Everyone has fears, but so many normal people seem extremely fearful, so fearful they choose to blend into the social woodwork so they don’t stand out as dissenters or oddballs.  They kill their authentic selves; become conscience-less.  And they do this in a society where their leaders are hell-bent on destroying the world and who justify their nuclear madness at every turn. I think Laing was right that this goes back to our experience.  When genuine experience is denied or mystified (it’s now disappeared into digital reality), real people disappear.  Laing wrote:

In order to rationalize our industrial-military complex, we have to destroy our  capacity to see clearly any more what is in front of, and to imagine what is beyond, our noses.  Long before a thermonuclear war can come about, we have had to lay  waste our sanity.  We begin with the children.  It is imperative to catch them in time. 

Without the most thorough and rapid brainwashing their dirty minds would see  through our dirty tricks.  Children are not yet fools, but we shall turn them into imbeciles like ourselves, with high I. Q.’s if possible.   From the moment of birth, when the Stone Age baby confronts the twentieth century mother, the baby is subjected to these forces of violence, called love, as its mother and father, as their parents and their parents before them, have been.  These forces are mainly concerned with destroying  most of it potentialities, and on the whole this enterprise is successful.  By the time the new human is fifteen or so, we are left with a being like ourselves, a half-crazed creature more or less adjusted to a mad world.  This is normality in our present age.

Love and violence, properly speaking, are polar opposites.  Love lets the other be, but with affection and concern.  Violence attempts to constrain the other’s freedom, to force him to act in the way we desire, but with ultimate lack of concern, with indifference to the other’s own existence or destiny.  We are effectively destroying ourselves by violence masquerading as love…We live equally out of our bodies and out of our minds.


So yes, I do think most people are victims.  No one chooses their parents, or to be born into poverty, or to be discriminated against for one’s race, etc.  No one chooses to have their genuine experience poisoned from childhood.  No one chooses to be born into a mad society.  This is all true.  Some are luckier than others.  Suicides, fast and slow, are victims.  But not just victims.  This is not about blame, but understanding.  For those who commit to lives of slow suicide, to the squelching of their true selves and their consciences in the face of a rapacious and murderous society, there is always the chance they can break with the norm and go sane.  Redemption is always possible.  But it primarily involves overcoming the fear of death, a fear that manifests itself in the extreme need to preserve one’s life, so-called social identity, and sense of self by embracing social conventions, no matter how insane they may be or whether or not they bring satisfaction or fulfillment.  Whether or not they give life a meaning that goes deep.

But for those who have taken their lives and are no longer among us, hope is gone.  But we can learn from their tragedies if we are truthful.   For them the fear of life was primary, and death seemed like an escape from that fear. Life was too much for them.  Why?  We must ask.  So they chose a life-in-death approach through fast suicide.  Everyone is joined to them in that fear, just as everyone is joined by the fear of death.  It is a question of which dominates, and when, and how much courage we can muster to live daringly.  The fear of death leads one to constrict one’s life in the safe surround of conventional society in the illusion that such false security will save one in the end.  Death is too much for them.  So they accept a death-in-life approach that I call slow suicide. 

But in the end as in the beginning and throughout our lives, there is really no escape.  The more alive we are, the closer death feels because really living involves risks and living outside the cocoon of the social lie. Mr. Pumpkin Head might seize you, whether he is conceived as your boss, an accident, disease, social ostracism, or some government assassin.  But the deader we feel, the further away death seems because we feel safe.  Pick your poison. 

But better yet, perhaps there is no need to choose if we can regain our genuine experience that parents and society, for different reasons, conspire to deny us.  Could the meaning of our lives be found, not in statements or beliefs, but in true experience?  Most people think of experience as inner or outer.  This is not true.  It is a form of conventional brainwashing that makes us schizoid. It is the essence of the neuro-biological materialism that reduces humans to unfree automatons. Proffered as the wisdom of the super intelligent, it is sheer stupidity.   

All experience is in-between, not the most eloquent of phrasing, I admit, but accurate.  Laing, a psychiatrist, puts it in the same way as do the mystics and those who embrace the Tao.  He says, “The relation of my experience to behavior is not that of inner to outer.  My experience is not inside my head.  My experience of this room is outside in this room.  To say that my experience is intrapsychic is to presuppose that there is a psyche that my experience is in.  My psyche is my experience, my experience is my psyche.”  Reverie, imagination, prayer, dream, etc. are as much outer as inner, they are modalities of experience that exist in-between.  We live in-between, and if we could experience that, we would realize the meaning of life and our connection to all living beings, including those our government massacres daily, and we would awaken our consciences to our complicity in the killing.  We would realize that the victims of the American killing machine are human beings like us; are us, and we, them.  We would rebel. 

Thoreau said a life without principle was not worth living.  Yet for so many of the slow suicides the only principals they ever had were those they had in high school.  Such word confusion is understandable when illiteracy is the order of the day and spelling passé. Has anyone when in high school ever had Thoreau’s admonition drummed into his head: “The ways by which you may get money almost without exception lead downward. To have done anything by which you earned money merely is to have been truly idle or worse.”  Of course not, since getting a “good” living is never thought to involve living in an honest, inviting, and honorable way.  It is considered a means to an end, the end being a consumer’s paradise.  “As for the means of living,” Thoreau added, “it is wonderful how indifferent men of all classes are about it, even reformers, so called – whether they inherit, or earn, or steal it.”  Is it any wonder so many people end up committing slow suicide?  “Is it that men are too much disgusted with their own experience to speak of it?”

What the hell –TGIH!

I believe the story has it that when he was in jail for refusing the poll tax that supported slavery and the Mexican-American war, Thoreau was visited by his friend Ralph Waldo Emerson, who asked him, “Henry, what are you doing in there?”  To which Thoreau responded, “Ralph, what are you doing out there?”  Today, however, most folks don’t realize that being outside their cells is being in them, and such imprisonment is far from principled.  That’s not a text message they’re likely to receive.

I recently met a woman, where or when I can’t recall.  It might have been when walking on the open road or falling in a dreaming hole.  She told me “if you look through a window, you can see the world outside.  If you look in a mirror, you can see yourself outside.  If you look into the outside world, you can see everyone inside out.  When the inside is seen outside and the outside is seen inside, you will know what you face.  Everything becomes simple then,” as she looked straight through me and my face fell off.

[/su_spoiler]



 

ABOUT THE AUTHOR

Educated in the classics, philosophy, literature, theology, and sociology, Ed Curtin teaches sociology at Massachusetts College of Liberal Arts. His writing on varied topics has appeared widely over many years. He states: “I write as a public intellectual for the general public, not as a specialist for a narrow readership. I believe a non-committal sociology is an impossibility and therefore see all my work as an effort to enhance human freedom through understanding.” His website is http://edwardcurtin.com/ .

Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: azozeo on June 22, 2018, 07:54:01 AM
The author neglected to research the other side of the veil for the rest of the story.

Incarnating to Earth is not for rookies. Currently there are a lot of 1st timers here in this dimension.

Here's an excerpt from Michael Newton's book Destiny of Souls.

In my summary of the spirit world, I indicated that
 souls lose most
of their negative emotional baggage when they shed
their bodies.
Although it is true we may carry the imprint of som
e emotional trauma
from a past life into the next one, this condition
is in a state of abeyance
until we return to a new body. Also, a great deal o
f negative energy is
expelled during the early stages of our return to t
he spirit world, espe-
cially after deprogramming during orientation.
When a soul once again returns to a pure energy stat
e in the spirit
world, it no longer feels hate, anger, envy, jealou
sy and the like. 
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: edpell on June 22, 2018, 07:34:48 PM
Israel is exterminating the Palestinians. The old are robbing the young in the U.S.. The fossils fuels are going going gone. Animals and plants that are not human are being exterminated.

Big deal that is the way the world is. If you can not cope it is evolution in action. Just die and stop whining. 
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: Surly1 on June 23, 2018, 07:23:20 AM
Israel is exterminating the Palestinians. The old are robbing the young in the U.S.. The fossils fuels are going going gone. Animals and plants that are not human are being exterminated.

Big deal that is the way the world is. If you can not cope it is evolution in action. Just die and stop whining.

Another happy acolyte of the Randian gospel. I got mine; if you don't got yours, eat a bullet.
Libertarianism in action.
Title: Re: Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever/ Why humans are cruel
Post by: Surly1 on June 23, 2018, 07:34:09 AM
Israel is exterminating the Palestinians. The old are robbing the young in the U.S.. The fossils fuels are going going gone. Animals and plants that are not human are being exterminated.

Big deal that is the way the world is. If you can not cope it is evolution in action. Just die and stop whining.

Another happy acolyte of the Randian gospel. I got mine; if you don't got yours, eat a bullet.
Libertarianism in action.

Why humans are cruel (https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/12/14/16687388/cruelty-border-immigration-psychology-human-nature)

A psychologist explains why humans are so terrible to each other.


By Sean Illing@seanillingsean.illing@vox.com Updated
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The grounds of the former Buchenwald concentration camp near Weimar, Germany.Sean Gallup/Getty Images

Why are human beings so cruel to each other? And how do we justify acts of sheer inhumanity?

The conventional explanation is that people are able to do terrible things to other people only after having dehumanized them. In the case of the Holocaust, for example, Germans were willing to exterminate millions of Jews in part because Nazi ideology taught them to think of Jews as subhuman, as objects without the right to freedom, dignity, or even life itself.

Paul Bloom, a psychology professor at Yale, thinks this explanation of human cruelty is, at best, incomplete. I spoke to him about why he thinks its wrong to assume cruelty comes from dehumanization — and about his grim conclusion that almost anyone is capable of committing staggering atrocities under the right circumstances.

A lightly edited transcript of our conversation follows.


Sean Illing

Can you sum up your argument about the roots of human cruelty?

Paul Bloom

A lot of people blame cruelty on dehumanization. They say that when you fail to appreciate the humanity of other people, that’s where genocide and slavery and all sorts of evils come from. I don’t think that’s entirely wrong. I think a lot of real awful things we do to other people arise from the fact that we don't see them as people.

But the argument I make in my New Yorker article is that it’s incomplete. A lot of the cruelty we do to one another, the real savage, rotten terrible things we do to one another, are in fact because we recognize the humanity of the other person.

We see other people as blameworthy, as morally responsible, as themselves cruel, as not giving us what we deserve, as taking more than they deserve. And so we treat them horribly precisely because we see them as moral human beings.

Sean Illing

I’ve always thought a campaign of genocide or slavery requires two things — an ideology that dehumanizes the victims and a massive bureaucracy.

Paul Bloom

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. I disagree that those things are “required.” I think a lot of mass killings unfold the way you described it: People do it because they don’t believe they’re killing people. This is what some call instrumental violence, where there’s some end they want to achieve, and people are in the way, so they don’t think of them as people.

This is obviously what happened in the Nazi concentration camps. People were reduced to machines, treated like animals for labor. But a lot of what goes on in concentration camps is degrading and humiliating, and it’s about torturing people because you think they deserve it. It’s about the pleasure of being dominant over another person.

But if you merely thought of these people as animals, you wouldn’t get that pleasure. You can’t humiliate animals — only people. So dehumanization is real and terrible, but it’s not the whole picture.

Sean Illing

What does that say about us, about our psychology, about our susceptibility to this kind of violence?

Paul Bloom

Think about it this way: We’re all sensitive to social hierarchies and to a desire for approval and esteem. So we often fold to the social pressures of our environment. That’s not necessarily evil. I come into my job as a professor and I want to do well, I want the respect of my peers. There’s nothing wrong about that.

But our desire to do well socially can have an ugly side. If you can earn respect by helping people, that’s great. If you can earn respect by physically dominating people with aggression and violence, that’s destructive. So a lot depends on our social environment and whether it incentivizes good or bad behavior.

Sean Illing

Are our intuitions about why people do terrible things wrong? Are we too sanguine about human nature?

Paul Bloom

I think our intuitions are wrong in just about every way they can be. First, there’s this myth that people who do evil are psychopaths or sadists or monsters who are driven by the sheer pleasure of watching other people suffer. The truth is far more complicated than that.

Then there’s the myth of dehumanization, which is that everybody who does evil is making a mistake. They’re just failing to appreciate the humanity of other people, and if only we could clear up that mistake, if only we could sit them down and say, “Hey guys, those Jews, the blacks, the gays, the Muslims, they're people just like you,” then evil would disappear. I think that’s bogus.

Sean Illing

Why is that bogus?

Paul Bloom

Consider the rhetoric of white supremacy. White supremacists know about the humanity of Jews and black people and whoever else they’re discriminating against — and it terrifies them.One of their slogans is, “You will not replace us.” Think of what that means. That’s not what you chant if you thought they were roaches or subhuman. That’s what you chant at people you’re really worried about, people who you think are a threat to your status and way of life.

Sean Illing

So cruelty isn’t an accident or an aberration, but something central to who and what we are?

Paul Bloom

It’s many things, and I don’t think there’s ever going to be a magic bullet theory of cruelty. I think some cruelty is born of dehumanization. I think some cruelty is born out of a loss of control. I think some cruelty is born out of an instrumental desire to get something you want — sex, money, power, whatever.

I think a lot of cruelty is born out of a normal and natural appreciation of the humanity of others, which then connects with certain important psychological appetites we have, like an appetite to punish those we think have done wrong. I think that, for the most part, people who do terrible things are just like us. They’ve just gone astray in certain specific ways.

Sean Illing

I tend to think of human beings as more malleable than we’d like to believe. Under the right conditions, is anyone capable of almost anything?

Paul Bloom

Wow, that’s an interesting question. I sort of believe that. I think, under the right conditions, most of us are capable of doing terrible things. There may be exceptions. But we’ve seen, both in laboratory conditions and real-world circumstances, that people can be manipulated into doing terrible things, and while there are some people who will say, “No, I won’t do that,” they tend to be a minority.

Again, I think the banal answer is that we’re swayed by social circumstances in ways that might be good or bad. You and I would be completely different people if we lived in a maximum security prison, because we’d have to adapt. There are powerful individual differences that matter, though. People can transcend their conditions, but it’s rarer than we’d like to believe.

“WHITE SUPREMACISTS KNOW ABOUT THE HUMANITY OF JEWS AND BLACK PEOPLE AND WHOEVER ELSE THEY’RE DISCRIMINATING AGAINST — AND IT TERRIFIES THEM.”

Sean Illing

I ask because I used to study totalitarian ideologies as a political theorist, and I spent a lot of time thinking about Nazi Germany and how an entire society could be led into a moral abyss like that. People look at that moment of insanity and say to themselves, “I could never have participated in that.” But I don’t think it’s that simple at all. I think almost any of us could have participated in that, and that’s an ugly truth.

Paul Bloom

I think you're right. We have this horrible tendency to overestimate the extent to which we're the moral standouts, we're the brave ones. This has some nasty social consequences. There was a great article that came out in the Washington Post last week about people who say, “I'm confused about the people who have been sexually assaulted, because if it happened to me, I would say no way, and I would put the person in their place, and I would speak out.”

This attitude is oftentimes scorn towards people who get harassed. They’re somehow morally weak, or maybe they’re just not telling the truth.

It turns out that one of my colleagues, Marianne LaFrance, did a study a while ago in which they asked a group of people, “How would you feel if you had a job interview and someone asked you these really sexist, ugly questions?”

Just about everybody says, “I would walk out. I would give the person hell,” and so on. Then they did it. They did fake interviews where people thought they were being interviewed, and people asked the sexist, ugly questions, and all of the women were just silent.

The point is that we don’t behave in stressful situations the way we think we would or the way we would like to. So yeah, if you and I were in Nazi Germany, we’d like to think we’d be the righteous ones, we’d be the heroes. But we might just be regular old Nazis.

Sean Illing

If your thesis is right, then it’s foolish to think we can get rid of cruelty if only we got rid of those noxious ideologies that justify it. In the end, it’s about us, not our ideas.

Paul Bloom

I think there are all sorts of ways we can become better people, and I think we are becoming better people. But if I’m right, there’s nothing simple about this. Acknowledging other people’s humanity won’t solve our problems.

Ultimately, we need better ideas, better ideologies. We need a culture less obsessed with power and honor and more concerned with mindfulness and dignity. That’s the best we can do to quell our appetites for dominance and punishment. Am I optimistic that we can do this? Yeah, I am. But it won’t be easy.

Title: Re: Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever/ Why humans are cruel
Post by: Eddie on June 23, 2018, 09:34:14 AM
Israel is exterminating the Palestinians. The old are robbing the young in the U.S.. The fossils fuels are going going gone. Animals and plants that are not human are being exterminated.

Big deal that is the way the world is. If you can not cope it is evolution in action. Just die and stop whining.

Another happy acolyte of the Randian gospel. I got mine; if you don't got yours, eat a bullet.
Libertarianism in action.

Why humans are cruel (https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/12/14/16687388/cruelty-border-immigration-psychology-human-nature)

A psychologist explains why humans are so terrible to each other.


By Sean Illing@seanillingsean.illing@vox.com Updated
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The grounds of the former Buchenwald concentration camp near Weimar, Germany.Sean Gallup/Getty Images

Why are human beings so cruel to each other? And how do we justify acts of sheer inhumanity?

The conventional explanation is that people are able to do terrible things to other people only after having dehumanized them. In the case of the Holocaust, for example, Germans were willing to exterminate millions of Jews in part because Nazi ideology taught them to think of Jews as subhuman, as objects without the right to freedom, dignity, or even life itself.

Paul Bloom, a psychology professor at Yale, thinks this explanation of human cruelty is, at best, incomplete. I spoke to him about why he thinks its wrong to assume cruelty comes from dehumanization — and about his grim conclusion that almost anyone is capable of committing staggering atrocities under the right circumstances.

A lightly edited transcript of our conversation follows.


Sean Illing

Can you sum up your argument about the roots of human cruelty?

Paul Bloom

A lot of people blame cruelty on dehumanization. They say that when you fail to appreciate the humanity of other people, that’s where genocide and slavery and all sorts of evils come from. I don’t think that’s entirely wrong. I think a lot of real awful things we do to other people arise from the fact that we don't see them as people.

But the argument I make in my New Yorker article is that it’s incomplete. A lot of the cruelty we do to one another, the real savage, rotten terrible things we do to one another, are in fact because we recognize the humanity of the other person.

We see other people as blameworthy, as morally responsible, as themselves cruel, as not giving us what we deserve, as taking more than they deserve. And so we treat them horribly precisely because we see them as moral human beings.

Sean Illing

I’ve always thought a campaign of genocide or slavery requires two things — an ideology that dehumanizes the victims and a massive bureaucracy.

Paul Bloom

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. I disagree that those things are “required.” I think a lot of mass killings unfold the way you described it: People do it because they don’t believe they’re killing people. This is what some call instrumental violence, where there’s some end they want to achieve, and people are in the way, so they don’t think of them as people.

This is obviously what happened in the Nazi concentration camps. People were reduced to machines, treated like animals for labor. But a lot of what goes on in concentration camps is degrading and humiliating, and it’s about torturing people because you think they deserve it. It’s about the pleasure of being dominant over another person.

But if you merely thought of these people as animals, you wouldn’t get that pleasure. You can’t humiliate animals — only people. So dehumanization is real and terrible, but it’s not the whole picture.

Sean Illing

What does that say about us, about our psychology, about our susceptibility to this kind of violence?

Paul Bloom

Think about it this way: We’re all sensitive to social hierarchies and to a desire for approval and esteem. So we often fold to the social pressures of our environment. That’s not necessarily evil. I come into my job as a professor and I want to do well, I want the respect of my peers. There’s nothing wrong about that.

But our desire to do well socially can have an ugly side. If you can earn respect by helping people, that’s great. If you can earn respect by physically dominating people with aggression and violence, that’s destructive. So a lot depends on our social environment and whether it incentivizes good or bad behavior.

Sean Illing

Are our intuitions about why people do terrible things wrong? Are we too sanguine about human nature?

Paul Bloom

I think our intuitions are wrong in just about every way they can be. First, there’s this myth that people who do evil are psychopaths or sadists or monsters who are driven by the sheer pleasure of watching other people suffer. The truth is far more complicated than that.

Then there’s the myth of dehumanization, which is that everybody who does evil is making a mistake. They’re just failing to appreciate the humanity of other people, and if only we could clear up that mistake, if only we could sit them down and say, “Hey guys, those Jews, the blacks, the gays, the Muslims, they're people just like you,” then evil would disappear. I think that’s bogus.

Sean Illing

Why is that bogus?

Paul Bloom

Consider the rhetoric of white supremacy. White supremacists know about the humanity of Jews and black people and whoever else they’re discriminating against — and it terrifies them.One of their slogans is, “You will not replace us.” Think of what that means. That’s not what you chant if you thought they were roaches or subhuman. That’s what you chant at people you’re really worried about, people who you think are a threat to your status and way of life.

Sean Illing

So cruelty isn’t an accident or an aberration, but something central to who and what we are?

Paul Bloom

It’s many things, and I don’t think there’s ever going to be a magic bullet theory of cruelty. I think some cruelty is born of dehumanization. I think some cruelty is born out of a loss of control. I think some cruelty is born out of an instrumental desire to get something you want — sex, money, power, whatever.

I think a lot of cruelty is born out of a normal and natural appreciation of the humanity of others, which then connects with certain important psychological appetites we have, like an appetite to punish those we think have done wrong. I think that, for the most part, people who do terrible things are just like us. They’ve just gone astray in certain specific ways.

Sean Illing

I tend to think of human beings as more malleable than we’d like to believe. Under the right conditions, is anyone capable of almost anything?

Paul Bloom

Wow, that’s an interesting question. I sort of believe that. I think, under the right conditions, most of us are capable of doing terrible things. There may be exceptions. But we’ve seen, both in laboratory conditions and real-world circumstances, that people can be manipulated into doing terrible things, and while there are some people who will say, “No, I won’t do that,” they tend to be a minority.

Again, I think the banal answer is that we’re swayed by social circumstances in ways that might be good or bad. You and I would be completely different people if we lived in a maximum security prison, because we’d have to adapt. There are powerful individual differences that matter, though. People can transcend their conditions, but it’s rarer than we’d like to believe.

“WHITE SUPREMACISTS KNOW ABOUT THE HUMANITY OF JEWS AND BLACK PEOPLE AND WHOEVER ELSE THEY’RE DISCRIMINATING AGAINST — AND IT TERRIFIES THEM.”

Sean Illing

I ask because I used to study totalitarian ideologies as a political theorist, and I spent a lot of time thinking about Nazi Germany and how an entire society could be led into a moral abyss like that. People look at that moment of insanity and say to themselves, “I could never have participated in that.” But I don’t think it’s that simple at all. I think almost any of us could have participated in that, and that’s an ugly truth.

Paul Bloom

I think you're right. We have this horrible tendency to overestimate the extent to which we're the moral standouts, we're the brave ones. This has some nasty social consequences. There was a great article that came out in the Washington Post last week about people who say, “I'm confused about the people who have been sexually assaulted, because if it happened to me, I would say no way, and I would put the person in their place, and I would speak out.”

This attitude is oftentimes scorn towards people who get harassed. They’re somehow morally weak, or maybe they’re just not telling the truth.

It turns out that one of my colleagues, Marianne LaFrance, did a study a while ago in which they asked a group of people, “How would you feel if you had a job interview and someone asked you these really sexist, ugly questions?”

Just about everybody says, “I would walk out. I would give the person hell,” and so on. Then they did it. They did fake interviews where people thought they were being interviewed, and people asked the sexist, ugly questions, and all of the women were just silent.

The point is that we don’t behave in stressful situations the way we think we would or the way we would like to. So yeah, if you and I were in Nazi Germany, we’d like to think we’d be the righteous ones, we’d be the heroes. But we might just be regular old Nazis.

Sean Illing

If your thesis is right, then it’s foolish to think we can get rid of cruelty if only we got rid of those noxious ideologies that justify it. In the end, it’s about us, not our ideas.

Paul Bloom

I think there are all sorts of ways we can become better people, and I think we are becoming better people. But if I’m right, there’s nothing simple about this. Acknowledging other people’s humanity won’t solve our problems.

Ultimately, we need better ideas, better ideologies. We need a culture less obsessed with power and honor and more concerned with mindfulness and dignity. That’s the best we can do to quell our appetites for dominance and punishment. Am I optimistic that we can do this? Yeah, I am. But it won’t be easy.


This is the correct explanation for the viral growth of the term "Zombie Apocalypse" in our popular culture, imho. I wrote something about that sometime back, I think.
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: Eddie on June 23, 2018, 11:15:01 AM
So what can we say about the vast numbers of people who commit slow suicide by a series of acts and inactions that last a long lifetime and render them the living dead, those whom Thoreau so famously said were the mass of people who “lead lives of quiet desperation”?

Because, you dumb sonofabitch, that's what life IS.

It's what happens while you're busy making other plans, as one gifted young martyr to the cause said, way back in 1980 or so.

http://www.youtube.com/v/Lt3IOdDE5iA&fs=1

Camus and John Lennon....talk about the karma of fame.

Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: K-Dog on June 23, 2018, 11:57:55 AM
So what can we say about the vast numbers of people who commit slow suicide by a series of acts and inactions that last a long lifetime and render them the living dead, those whom Thoreau so famously said were the mass of people who “lead lives of quiet desperation”?

Because, you dumb sonofabitch, that's what life IS.

It's what happens while you're busy making other plans, as one gifted young martyr to the cause said, way back in 1980 or so.


Camus and John Lennon....talk about the karma of fame.

Struck me as a dumb sonofabitch too.  Definitely someone who wishes life could become his preferred dream of choice.  Off point.  Suicide is up because people are stressed, without answers, without purpose, suffering from a lack of direction.  Most are not prospering as well as you or I and prosperity does drive the blues away to a point.  A split is going on and we are on the better side of things, but with our own minds.  An important distinction.

People are no more living lives of quiet desperation than they did a decade or two or three ago.  Now more of them are living lives of intense desperation and it is pushing them over the edge.  But that is not the only thing that is going on.  I work where I am seeing two new Americas emerge.  A new homeless America and a new middle class America.  Both of these Americas are not quite like what we have had before.

The new middle class is really a poor rich that thinks and acts like the rich but they still have to work.  Fewer in number than the middle class of the 1960s or 70s this new middle class resembles the rich more and are a bit better off at least in appearance, than their parents were.  The total number in this class is smaller and the pie slices are naturally bigger.  These people are a select crop of the former middle class and are neo-liberals or neo-conservatives on steroids. Petite bourgeoisie.

The new homeless are a people without hope and have tuned in and dropped out.  They skipped Mr. Leary's advice to turn on though some are making up for lost time.  That is a joke.  Fact is the homeless have been homeless for several years now and the jobless recovery did not give them anything to change their circumstances.  They are evolving into a permanent gypsy class with values and attitudes totally different from the rest of America.  They are not camping on the laws of State capitals demanding jobs and change.  Instead they are a new form of urban wildlife that is evolving to prosper as well as they can in our urban landscapes.  They have joined the raccoon and the urban rabbits and the bobcats which eat the rabbits.  They are dedicated to flying under the radar and just getting by day by day.  They are becoming their own tribe.

Ed Curtin can wax poetic about 'Thoreau' if he wants but I don't see how it helps.
Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: K-Dog on June 23, 2018, 12:39:47 PM
That Sean Illing, Paul Bloom dialogue was good.  I'm not surprised at the conclusion and it is more or less what I came to on my own over the years.  People can be cruel, very cruel.  If people think other people are not following basic rules the natural reaction is to want to kill them.  Best we admit it.  A sense of unfairness kicks in and makes a mindless rage.  People have no idea of how bat shit crazy and mean they will get to maintain what they see as a 'correct' social order.  However they see it.  People from other tribes often are the brunt of such aggression because information to counter mindless prejudice is not in the scope of the perpetrators world.

The same craziness happens here all the time.

Title: Re: 😞 Depression Striking More Young People Than Ever
Post by: K-Dog on June 23, 2018, 01:21:02 PM
Somebody should do this with suicide rates.

http://www.youtube.com/v/shqJR_0WdrI?ecver=2

Unemployment in America, Mapped Over Time

Quote
We often hear about shifting unemployment rate at the national scale. It went up. It went down. It changes month-to-month. But unemployment is very regional, more common in some areas of the country than others. In many areas, unemployment rates remain relatively high despite the decreases in the national average.

The Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates county-level unemployment on a monthly basis. You can also get annual averages that go back to 1990. In the animated map above, I used the datasets to show the shifts over the past few decades.

Watch out for the big shift between 2008 and 2011 — and then the decrease in unemployment leading up to the present.

https://flowingdata.com/2016/10/17/animated-map-of-unemployment/ (https://flowingdata.com/2016/10/17/animated-map-of-unemployment/)

Since I have been in the same place over the time period of the map I watched my spot.  The changes were a barometer of how well I have been doing.  Even the places where I had a job but nobody who had a job at the time was stupid enough to switch are a shade of gray that matches the time.  The times when musical chairs could be played are brighter.  My unemployment periods match the map except I lagged the map the last time I had to get re-employed.  A lot of people destroyed between 2008-2010 vanished so I was lucky.  It will happen again and many will vanish.

I expect a map of suicides would match pretty well to this one.