Doomstead Diner Newz Channels => Surveys => Topic started by: RE on December 19, 2018, 05:26:58 AM

Title: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: RE on December 19, 2018, 05:26:58 AM
Currently in Beta Testing.  Help me out by filling in the survey so I can check itf everything is working right.  New questions can still be added before I go Live with it, so suggestions for questions are :hi:.  Your current answers will be wiped out if I add or make changes to the survey, so you will need to fill it out again then when I do a general release, probably on Sunday for Brunch.

2019 Collapse Political Survey (https://freeonlinesurveys.com/s/J6NdIr25#!/0)

...Survey Says...
(https://media.giphy.com/media/tpmaracDvlyRW/giphy.gif)

RE
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: RE on December 19, 2018, 10:08:49 AM
HEY!  Nobody has responded to the End of Year Diner Political Survey! 😠

I need some data points here to check this thing out!

Also suggestions for improving it before I go live with it.

It doesn't even take 5 minutes to complete, and it's anonymous.  Use a Proxy Server if you are really paranoid.  ::)

RE
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: Surly1 on December 19, 2018, 11:19:17 AM
HEY!  Nobody has responded to the End of Year Diner Political Survey! 😠

I need some data points here to check this thing out!

Also suggestions for improving it before I go live with it.

It doesn't even take 5 minutes to complete, and it's anonymous.  Use a Proxy Server if you are really paranoid.  ::)

RE

Done. You should reword the question about control of the Senate.
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: RE on December 19, 2018, 11:30:47 AM
HEY!  Nobody has responded to the End of Year Diner Political Survey! 😠

I need some data points here to check this thing out!

Also suggestions for improving it before I go live with it.

It doesn't even take 5 minutes to complete, and it's anonymous.  Use a Proxy Server if you are really paranoid.  ::)

RE

Done. You should reword the question about control of the Senate.

What wording would you suggest?

RE
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: Surly1 on December 19, 2018, 12:01:25 PM

Done. You should reword the question about control of the Senate.

What wording would you suggest?

RE

7. Who will control the Senate after the 2020 election?
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: RE on December 19, 2018, 12:05:23 PM

Done. You should reword the question about control of the Senate.

What wording would you suggest?

RE

7. Who will control the Senate after the 2020 election?

10-4.  Wording Updated.  Any other questions you want me to add?

RE
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: RE on December 19, 2018, 12:21:09 PM

Done. You should reword the question about control of the Senate.

What wording would you suggest?

RE

7. Who will control the Senate after the 2020 election?

10-4.  Wording Updated.  Any other questions you want me to add?

RE

I'm thinking of adding some Demographic Questions to the Survey.  :icon_scratch:  Age, Gender, Regional Location, Education Level etc.  Not sure though if this will make for fewer responses.  When I go Live with it, I will distribute it across all the Collapse Websites that haven't yet Banned me. lol. r/collapse, Cassandra's Legacy, etc.

Diners also are requested to post links to the survey on Social Media and the commentariat of websites they participate on to get as big a Sample Size as we can.  Don't do this yet though until I have it in Final Form.  It appears to be working fine.  I may pay for a month's worth of the Premium Package to get full stats on this one.  I also have another one in the works on Survey Monkey on Economics which I may transfer to Free Surveys if I buy the Premium Package.  I wanna test out Survey Monkey, which is the most popular of these tools.

RE
Title: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey Update
Post by: RE on December 20, 2018, 10:21:02 AM
I ended up springing for the Premium Package again.  ::)  Santa RE's Christmas Present to the Diner. 🎅

I decided to add demographic questions and also Attitude questions about Collapse, and the Survey got too long for the Free Account.  I also wanted to get the more detailed Stats you get with the Premium Account.  Besides that, I have more Surveys planned for 2019.  This Survey does NOT include Economics & Money questions, that will be a separate Survey I release in January.  This Survey will go LIVE on Sunday for Brunch.

Thanks to the Diners who voted in the Beta test survey for helping me out to check how it was working.  It was actually an interesting sample, although small. We had both self-identified Libertarians and Communists respond, and 60% of the respondents favored Revolution over the Status Quo, which got no votes.  The other 40% voted for "Other", although I am not sure what other entails here? ???  :icon_scratch:

All prior responses will be wiped out prior to release of this Survey, so if you took it you will need to take it again.  I am taking further suggestions for questions to ask through Saturday.  Don't take the Survey again prior to Sunday, since there might be some last minute changes before I Publish and go out on a Promotional Campaign for it.   Don't forget to drop links for it on any other websites you participate on that accept Links!

Preliminary Results will be published a week later, also for Sunday Brunch.  I will probably leave the Survey Open for new respondents through January, depending how many more responses are trickling in.

http://www.youtube.com/v/hP57Ujh1J-0

RE
Title: 2019 Collapse Survey Update: The Gender & Religion Gap
Post by: RE on December 30, 2018, 02:47:17 AM


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Published on the Doomstead Diner on December 30, 2018






Discuss this analysis at the Survey Table inside the Diner



 



Survey now @ 400 Respondents



Survey STILL OPEN.  Submit your Opinions HERE



 



I had intended to make this update about the Energy results coming out of the survey, but this data is already too much to do a decent overview on  in such a short time and I am going to put it off until I close the Survey.  So I am focusing today on a smaller demographic area of the Survey, the Gender question and the Religion question.



Before I do that though I want to express my Gratitude to the submitters who have made this survey the most statistically significant one I have ever done, surpassing even the Human Extinction Survey.  These respondents come from 4 Collapse Websites primarily:



#1- Reddit r/collapse @ 139 Submissions



#2- The Burning Platform @ 92 Submissions



#3- Cassandra's Legacy @ 79 Submissions



#4- The Doomstead Diner @ 50 Submissions



Several other collapse websites submitted responses as well, but these were the only 4 in the double digits, to date.  Total submissions now from all websites is over 400 now.  REMEMBER THE 400! You will be one of those who were counted as the End of Industrial Civilization became apparent.  This is a highly significant sample of the Collapse Blogosphere, I will write in more detail about that when I begin the full analysis of the survey, which is going to take quite some time to do.  The survey remains OPEN at this time, you can still get your last minute Opinions in here before I take the tally and start to work on figuring out what (if anything) this all means.



First we have a BIG PROBLEM.  We have a Gender and Religion Gap!






 



For today, I am just going to look at two curious Demographic results, concerning Gender and Religion.  The Doughnut Charts are up at the top of the page for reference. (this snapshot taken a couple of days ago with respondents around 250.  Percentages haven't changed significantly since)  Up first, the Gender Gap.



Where have all the Females Gone?






In the demographic study, the Collapse Blogospere turns up 13% Females, 84% Males and 2% LGBTQ or Other, all self-identified descriptions of course.  This percentage is actually remarkably consistent across all the surveys we have run across all websites, including the previous largest survey on Near Term Human Extinction.



On the Diner, I have often been blamed for the lack of female participants, because I am a self-identified and declared Monast, a Spiritually-driven Panentheist Hermit-Monk, Celibate now for the last 20 years.  I have also fairly often been accused of Misogyny, which just isn't true.  I don't hate women any more than I hate men, or LGBTQs either.  In the words of Don Rickles, I hate them all equally. lol.  It's also quite a stretch to believe I drive all the wimmen off of all the Collapse Websites just by showing up there. lol.



So WHY is it there are so few women-folk haunting the Collapse Blogosphere?  There certainly are plenty-o-females on the net, you find them all over the cooking sites (which I haunt also of course, which you would suspect if you read my periodic SNAP Card Gourmet articles  or the Diner Menu inside the Diner.  I love cooking and among my many other professions I was a professional chef), and they are all over the permie sites and homesteading sites also.  But NOT on the Doomer sites themselves.  My basic answer to this question is that the Commentariat on Collapse websites is highly contentious, often enough it devolves into an all-out Bar Fight or Napalm Contest.  Wimmen don't really like to engage in this sort of thing in general.  At least not like the wimmen in the gif at right here. lol.



The other more deeply psychological reason I can come up with is that females simply don't like to contemplate TEOTWAWKI scenarios, hordes of rampaging Zombies, loading up their bras with Gold Coins to secure against Hyper-Inflation, etc. You would need a seriously good wire supported push-up bra for this task, maybe you should look for one on smile.amazon.com?  Be sure to drop the Sustaining Universal Needs Foundation of Boiling Springs, SC as your designated Charity. 🙂  But that is just a WAG anyhow, I have no numbers to back up that hypothesis. lol.  If you have a good rationale for this Gender Gap in Collapse, please drop it in Inside the Diner and let me know what it is.



Where have all the Muslims Gone?



Related imageThey haven't all gone to graveyards yet, based on the number of beheadings and suicide bombings going on around the globe anyhow.  Allahu  Akbar!



To date, with well over 400 submissions from all over the world and several pretty popular Collapse Focused Websites weighing in, not one single believer in the Koran and Islam has weighed in here with an opinion.  Yes that's right folks, a religion currently commanding the belief system of roughly 1.5B Homo Saps has ABSOLUTE ZERO representation in this survey!




According to a 2010 study and released January 2011, Islam has 1.5 billion adherents, making up over 22% of the world population.




Islam is also the world's fastest growing Religion and projected to take over the globe demographically by 2060



Related image



Now, even the Unitarian-Universalists, a totally microscopic religion I was born into drew in 3 submitters.  Panentheism which I now subscribe to got two submitters, me and somebody else.  I wasn't even sure anybody else even knew what Panentheism is and how it differs from Pantheism either!  Apparently though, there is at least one other person out there who is another believer.  Who is that guy (gal)?






The question remains though, WHY are there no Muslims contributing to this survey?  Besides all the Muslims currently living in war torn contries being bombed back to the Stone Age by the FSoA who probably don't have internet access at the moment, there are still plenty-o-Muslims who have emmigrated to European Countries and the FSoA over the last 50 years or so.



 



Global Religious Distribution



Image result for europe religions



FSoA Religious Distribution



Image result for us religions



The Immigration Wave



Image result for Self described religion in the European Union (2012)[17]



Image result for religious distribution usa



Now, I'm not looking to fire up you xenophobes & racists out there (well, maybe I am. lol. good for the total numbers.) but the fact is there are many Muslims in the West with access to a computer and an internet connection, certainly a far greater number than the numbe of Unitarian-Universalists and Panentheists anyhow.  So WTF don't they VOTE? Is it a violation of Sharia Law or something?






The reason for the Religion Gap is about as big a Mystery to me as the Gender Gap, so if any of you readers out there has some deeper insight into this, please post it up Inside the Diner for the Diners to chew on.  It's a really deep topic and I am sure we can get a really good Bar Fight out of it.  Just remember if you do drop in that we don't follow the Marquis de Queensbury rules inside the Diner, and I personally do not fight fair. I'm the fucking Admin. LOL.




Title: ✔️ 2019 Collapse Survey Update: The Gender & Religion Gap
Post by: RE on December 31, 2018, 01:51:15 AM
Update now UP on Econintersect.com!  :icon_sunny:

http://econintersect.com/pages/opinion/opinion.php?post=201812302323 (http://econintersect.com/pages/opinion/opinion.php?post=201812302323)

Survey now @ 443 Respondents

Survey now @ 99% Confidence Level with a 6% Margin of Error

We killed it with this one Diners.  Absolutely ASTOUNDING!  :o

Not so Wacky after all.  ;D

RE
Title: ✔️ 2019 Collapse Survey Update: 99% Confidence Level
Post by: RE on December 31, 2018, 02:30:31 PM
(http://allthingsd.com/files/2012/10/dick-dawson-survey-says.jpeg)

Survey now @ 455 Respondents

Survey now @ 99% Confidence Level with a 6% Margin of Error

Cassandra's Legacy has now overtaken TBP for 2nd Place with 99-97 Submissions.  The Diner in 4th with 59 submissions.  r/collapse the clear leader with 150 submissions.

Energy & Technology analysis coming Sunday to a Laptop Near You.

Not so Wacky after all.  ;D

RE
Title: ✔️ 2019 Collapse Survey Update: The Drive for 500 - GET YOUR FUCKING VOTES IN!
Post by: RE on January 02, 2019, 07:15:12 AM
click the pic to enlarge
500 Drive
500 Drive

Now @ 480 Respondents.  :icon_sunny:

Diner in 4th out of the money with 62 submissions.

If you haven't voted yet, GET TO IT!

RE
Title: ✔️ 2019 Collapse Survey Update: THE 500
Post by: RE on January 02, 2019, 04:15:12 PM
"Remember this day men, for it will be yours for All Time"

http://www.youtube.com/v/HdNn5TZu6R8

WE DID IT!  WE MADE IT TO 500 RESPONDENTS!

Unfuckingbelievable.

RE
Title: Re: ✔️ 2019 Collapse Survey Update: THE 500
Post by: Surly1 on January 02, 2019, 05:34:02 PM
"Remember this day men, for it will be yours for All Time"
WE DID IT!  WE MADE IT TO 500 RESPONDENTS!

Unfuckingbelievable.

RE

Not surprised at all.
Title: Re: ✔️ 2019 Collapse Survey Update: THE 500
Post by: RE on January 02, 2019, 05:39:28 PM
"Remember this day men, for it will be yours for All Time"
WE DID IT!  WE MADE IT TO 500 RESPONDENTS!

Unfuckingbelievable.

RE

Not surprised at all.

What is surprising is that the Diner held onto 1st Place in the Go-To Collapse Blog Ranking all the way to The 500.  ::)

DOOMSTEAD DINER.  #1 FOR DOOM ON THE NET.

re
Title: ✔️ 2019 Collapse Survey Update: Guess how many Diner Submissions?
Post by: RE on January 02, 2019, 06:31:14 PM
66!

(https://prophecyinthenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/666.jpg)

lol. (https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DiscreteGrimyBats-max-1mb.gif)

I'm gonna leave this thing open until we get 666 submissions overall!  ;D

RE

Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: cernunnos5 on January 02, 2019, 07:34:52 PM
Let me know when you move in. I'm at 668. I'm the neighbor of the beast 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzNKJiaBlsE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzNKJiaBlsE)
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: RE on January 02, 2019, 08:16:48 PM
Let me know when you move in. I'm at 668. I'm the neighbor of the beast 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzNKJiaBlsE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzNKJiaBlsE)

My guess would be it takes a month or two.  Depends on how much I go out and PLUG THE LIVING SHIT out of it.  ;D

Also if any of the Diners (like you) plug it on other sites.

RE
Title: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Survey: Now @ 518 Respondents!
Post by: RE on January 03, 2019, 06:43:22 PM
I'm not out plugging it anymore, working on getting the analysis articles done now.  Still, the responses keep dribbling in.  Here's the current numbers breakdown by website:

(http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Survey-Blogs-Submitters-1024x797.png)

Steve's Blog Economic Undertow also came in with 16 Respondents, write-ins in the "Others" category.

This Sunday Brunch article is focused on the Energy & Technology questions.

Following Sunday will be a Demographic Breakdown of Kollapsniks.

RE
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: Eddie on January 03, 2019, 06:50:33 PM
Roll with it.
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: RE on January 03, 2019, 07:02:10 PM
Roll with it.

I am doing so.  No reason to close it though, I can take snapshots at any time.  At this point, the percentages don't move very much.  The sample is very good.

RE
Title: 2019 Collapse Survey Results: The 500 - Energy & Technology
Post by: RE on January 06, 2019, 02:09:23 AM
[html]


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   Published on the Doomstead Diner on January 6, 2018



    



   " Remember this day men, for it will be yours for all time."



   



   Discuss this article at the Survey Table inside the Diner



    




      The Charge of the Light Brigade

   





      By Alfred, Lord Tennyson
   





         I
      


         Half a league, half a league,
      


         Half a league onward,
      


         All in the valley of Death
      


            Rode the six hundred.
      


         “Forward, the Light Brigade!
      


         Charge for the guns!” he said.
      


         Into the valley of Death
      


            Rode the six hundred.
      


          
      


         II
      


         “Forward, the Light Brigade!”
      


         Was there a man dismayed?
      


         Not though the soldier knew
      


            Someone had blundered.
      


            Theirs not to make reply,
      


            Theirs not to reason why,
      


            Theirs but to do and die.
      


            Into the valley of Death
      


            Rode the six hundred.
      


          
      


         III
      


         Cannon to right of them,
      


         Cannon to left of them,
      


         Cannon in front of them
      


            Volleyed and thundered;
      


         Stormed at with shot and shell,
      


         Boldly they rode and well,
      


         Into the jaws of Death,
      


         Into the mouth of hell
      


            Rode the six hundred.
      


          
      


         Image result for charge of the light brigade
      


          
      


         IV
      


         Flashed all their sabres bare,
      


         Flashed as they turned in air
      


         Sabring the gunners there,
      


         Charging an army, while
      


            All the world wondered.
      


         Plunged in the battery-smoke
      


         Right through the line they broke;
      


         Cossack and Russian
      


         Reeled from the sabre stroke
      


            Shattered and sundered.
      


         Then they rode back, but not
      


            Not the six hundred.
      


          
      


         V
      


         Cannon to right of them,
      


         Cannon to left of them,
      


         Cannon behind them
      


            Volleyed and thundered;
      


         Stormed at with shot and shell,
      


         While horse and hero fell.
      


         They that had fought so well
      


         Came through the jaws of Death,
      


         Back from the mouth of hell,
      


         All that was left of them,
      


            Left of six hundred.
      


          
      


         VI
      


         When can their glory fade?
      


         O the wild charge they made!
      


            All the world wondered.
      


         Honour the charge they made!
      


         Honour the Light Brigade,
      


            Noble six hundred!
      


          
      


          
      


          
      



         
      



          
      



          
      



          
      










                     Notes from RE:
                  



                     1- Although the title says 500, I actually took this snapshot of the Stats when the numbers were between 430-435.  They are now at 535 as I publish this article.  I chose 500 because it sounds good and it's right between the 300 of Thermopylae and the 600 of the Light Brigade.  Percentages haven't changed much with the additional submissions since the snapshot was taken.  We will no doubt add quite a few more respondents with this article since I am leaving the survey open for the time being.  460 respondents marked the point at which the survey gained a 99% Confidence Level with a 6% Confidence Interval for a population size of 100,000, but more is always better when it comes to surveys.
                  



                     Respondents who added their email addys will get a pdf of the survey results right around 500, depending when I take the snapshot.  More in depth analysis can be done with the spreadsheet, you can parse the numbers with that.  Contact me if you are interested in doing a more detailed numerical analysis and have verifiable background with which to do it.
                  



                     If you use the results of this survey in any academic papers or documents, please reference the Doomstead Diner as the source in your footnotes.  Also please inform me through the Contact Page on the Diner if you are going to use the survey or its charts and graphs in this way, or on your blogs if you have one.
                  









                              No parts of this study may be used on commercial websites that use Advertising or sell Merchandise such as the Author's books, or which have Paywalls without the express consent of the Doomstead Diner and the Sustaining Universal Needs Foundation.  None of the charts and graphs may be altered in any way or the copyright and logos removed from those charts.
                           


                     The Survey remains OPEN at this time.  Responses keep dribbling in and I don't want to leave anyone out of the final Tally.
                  



                     2-  Most of the questions don't tally to the full 430 or so when I took the snapshot.  This because all respondents don't answer all questions.
                  



                     3- Statistical Significance:  This is always a bone of contention with any survey.  How significant is it really?  How big is the population you are surveying?
                  



                     It's tough to estimate exactly how many people were surveyed here across all the websites, but I'm putting the Outer Limit at 100,000.  r/collapse has the largest circulaton with almost 90,000 subscribers, but many of them no longer participate or read the sub anymore.  Also unlikely that in 2 weeks all the currently active redditors saw the links to the survey.  All the rest of the blogs and forums are much smaller, so 100,000 seems like a good outer limit here.
                  



                     At this level of population, the Survey comes in with a 99% Confidence Level and a 6% Confidence Interval, IOW it's very significant for this size population.  It's likely quite accurate in its numbers.  Caculations done with the Survey Calculator on SurveySystems.com.
                  



                     4- Question Structure Complaints:  Once again with all surveys, complaints come in with the way the questions are structured and what the answer choices are.  In this case I tried to give as many places for a free form write in response as possible.  Many respondents took advantage of this and I will publish their responses in follow up articles or Inside the Diner in the Surveys thread.
                  



                     5- "Americentric" Complaints:  Specific to this survey, several complaints came in that it was "Americentric", which really is not true.  There are a few questions specific to the Amerikan Political Sewer, but most of the questions are applicable to Kollapsniks who live anywhere at all.
                  



                      
                  



                     Thanks to all the Kollapsniks from all websites who dropped in their 2 cents on this survey.  Special thanks to the following 7 websites which contributed the bulk of the opinions (sites with >5 Repsondents):
                  



                      
                  



                     #1- Reddit r/collapse with 168 Submissions
                  



                     #2- Cassandra's Legacy with 121 Submissions
                  



                     #3- The Burning Platform with 98 Submissions
                  



                     #4- The Doomstead Diner with 68 Submissions
                  



                     #5-  Economic Undertow with 16 Submissions
                  



                     #6- Our Finite World with 13 Submissions
                  



                     #7- Truthdig with 7 Submissions
                  



                      
                  



                     Each of these websites has a somewhat different readerhship, I'll make some general obserations here from my time participating on all of these websites  as a (rather prolific, lol) commenter and TROLL. Before Admining my own site, I was a first class annoying troll in the commentariat of NUMEROUS websites, I can't even count them all anymore.  I was BANNED from most of them. lol.
                  



                      
                  



                     #1- r/collapse: Like the rest of Reddit, r/collapse is dominated by social media freak Millenials.  Their education and knowledge of the problems we face is very diverse.  Some are well read up, others are fucking clueless idiots.  Their numbers are HUGE, dwarfing any of the single collapse websites.  Their Political viewpoints vary from the far right to the far left, leaning more toward the left.
                  



                     #2- Cassandra's Legacy:  Prof. Ugo Bardi's Blog.  He teaches Physical Chemistry at the Univeristy of Firenza in Italy.   Ugo is a member of the Club of Rome and participated in the original Limits to Growth study done in the 1970s.  The website is LOADED with Academics with Ph.Ds.  It's one of the reasons we have such a high education level recorded in this survey.  Ugo and I collaborated on many video discussions of Collapse Issues which can be found on the Diner YouTube Channel.
                  



                     #3- The Burning Platform: Run by Jim Quinn, a CPA who handles the books at the Wharton Biz Skule in the Ivy League.  A Baby Boomer who denies he is a Baby Boomer, for whom the 4th Turning by Strauss & Howe is the Bible of Collapse.  Very Right-Wing/Libertarian leaning website, with quite a vocal commentariat.  I participated on that site for a couple of years and wrote numerous contrarian articles there.  It was very entertaining. lol.
                  



                     #4- The Doomstead Diner: My Doom Website, established in 2012 by myself and my co-Admin Surly and our Code Jockey tech designer Peter.  The #1 Go-To Website on the net for Collapse Newz.  Generally Left leaning politically, but we do have a few contrarian Libertarians who chip in their 2 cents as well.  A very contentious commentariat, not a place for the meek.  Don your Fireproof BVDs before you sign in. lol.
                  



                     #5- Economic Undertow: Run by Steve Ludlum, aka Steve from Virginia.  An economic technical site with a very different from mainstream analysis you can get anywhere else, and usually right on the mark.  Steve also collaborated with me on many videos.  A relatively apolitical website.
                  



                     #6- Our Finite World:  Run by Gail Tverberg, a former professional Actuary who does many charts and graphs to illustrate her POV on the energy problems we face.  OFW has become increasingly Doomerish over the years, although the site has little political spin at all, just some very vehement Nihilists.  Gail also collaborated with me on numerous discussions and videos.  No discernible Political Spin to this website.
                  



                     #7- Truthdig:  Chris Hedges website.  Chris is a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist and an unabshed Socialist with a Capital S.  He himself does have a net worth in the $Millions$ though. lol.  He's a fabulous speaker and does great interviews as well.
                  



                      
                  



                     Now, on to the charts from the survey.  For today, we look at the Energy & Technology Questions.  I'll make a few brief comments beneath each chart.   For further analysis and discussion, visit the Survey Table inside the Diner.
                  




          
      



         Survey still OPEN
      



         Survey now @ 534 Submissions
      



          
      



         
      



         I found it pretty hard to believe that roughly 1/4 of Kollapsniks characterize their attitude as "Optimistic", given all the evidence coming in here nowadays.  However, hope springs eternal even amongst Doomers.  I voted in the Pessimist category.  The Nihilists are still a fairly small but very vocal community, led by such pundits as Dr. McStinksion from Nature Bats Last.
      



         
      



         The plurality of Kollapsniks think that Renewables can provide enough energy to maintain the technological lifestyle, at least for a smaller population of Homo Saps anyhow.  I fall into the Pipedream category, I don't think most of these techno-gimmick solutions will work for any more than a few decades at best.
      



         
      



         Here most Kollapsniks feel we should put the bulk of our resources into developing Solar Photovolataics.  An oversight here, I didn't include Solar Thermal (stuff like Stirling Engines) which might have a longer lifespan overall than photovoltaics.  I'm down there at the low end favoring putting our resources toward biomass and animal power.  It's going to take quite some time to breed up a population of horses again sufficient for even a reduced Homo Sap footprint on the planet.  Developing biomass is good for the environment also and doesn't require complex factories or machinery to use.
      



         
      



         Given the disasters of 3 Mile Island, Chernobyl and Fukushima, it's hard for me to understand how anyone can be in favor of Nuclear Energy.  And those disasters (along with smaller ones at reactors you don't hear about) happened during GOOD TIMES, when we have some resources to throw at the problem and try to contain it.  The spent fuel waste continues to pile up with no solution to that in sight.  Thorium Reactors and Fusion Power are both Pipedreams of the technogimmick Futurologists, they don't exist in practical working form anywhere.  It's time to give up on this Planet Killing system and decommision the plants while there is still time.
      



         
      



         This one truly astounds me.  Even today, more than 1/5th of Kollapsniks buy into the Star Trek Futurology Mythology and think we will leave this planet to set up colonies on Mars and Beyond.  We can't even set up a self-sustaining colony in Antarctica, and it has air, water and suitable gravity for Homo Saps!  The "Space Station" we have up is decades old and is just a bunch of glorified RVs hooked together in space.  It's no 2001 Big Wheel in the Sky.  We don't have a propulsion system that is going to drive us through Interstellar Space and then be able also to land on and take off from any planets we migt find out there.  Yet this whole meme continues to be sold by dingbats like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos, who waste $Billions$ in debt money and Wall Street keeps funding them!  It's just preposterous and the stuff of childhood fantasies.  Grow UP people!  The Human Race was born on this planet and it will die here at some indeterminate point in the future.  Live with it.
      



         
      



         These questions were covered in The Human Extinction Survey, which we ran a couple of years ago here on the Diner.  However, attitudes do change as time goes by and Collapse progresses, so I included a few questions on the future of Homo Sap and when we might go Extinct in this survey as well.  It's always a popular topic in the commentariat of Collapse websites.
      



         In this particular iteration of the question we do have 2 complete Fanatics who think the entire population of Homo Sap will be DEAD by next year.  These are the acolytes and True Believers of Dr. McStinksion on Nature Bats Last.  Sorry folks, the only way you get 100% Dead People by next year is if the Earth collides with a Planet Killer Asteroid.  You need 100% for Extinction, 99.99% just won't do here.  Even full on Thermonuclear War couldn't do it, nor could a Supervolcanic Eruption.
      



         
      



         Only slightly more rational is the cohort that thinks we'll have Extinction by 2030, there were 7 of those responding to the survey.  Again, you just can't get an extinction that fast, there will still be some habitable neighborhoods even under the worst projections for climate change by 2030.
      



         2050 to 2100 starts to get more rational, but in neither case will I be alive that long, so after about 2040 (really, if I make it to 2025 that will be miraculous) it's irrelevant to me when Extinction arrives.  Not so for some younger and healthier Diners of course.  In the meantime though while you are waiting for the last Homo Sap on Planet Earth to expire, WTF do you DO with yourself?  Are you going to just throw up your hands and give up?  Pull your own plug and commit Seppuku?  What?
      



         I put in my vote for In the Year 2525, because that was what was prophesied by Zager & Evans in 1968, 50 years ago.
      



         
      



         
      



         This is one of my favorite Collapse Questions, because my own opinion on this has changed over the years of observing and writing about Collapse.
      



         When I first began in 2007 on the Peak Oil Forum, my opinion was we could stabilize at a 19th Century level of technology, with stuff like Steam Engines and Railroads.  At the end of my years there but before I launched the Doomstead Diner with my Comrades Peter & Surly I was back to the 18th Century, prior to the invention of the Steam Engine.
      



         My estimates have continued to retreat in time however, to the point now I don't think anything is truly sustainable beyond Stone Age Technology.  There is only a small cohort of submitters who agree with me on this estimate, 2% or 9 submitters in total.  I have numerous reasons why I have come to this conclusion, too numerous and detailed to expand on here.  If you are curious to discuss it, drop in at the Survey Table inside the Diner and I'll be happy to explain the rationale for this.
      



         Stone Age Tech really isn't so bad though, when you consider what Stone Age people were able to accomplish and how long they lasted before the discovery of Metallurgy and Ceramics and before intensive Agriculture began for them in their neighborhoods.  The Polynesians who explored the breadth of the biggest Ocean of them all, the Pacific, were Stone Age People.
      



         Image result for hokulea
      



         Don't you wish you were the Navigator on that first Cat-Rigged Sailing Canoe that made it to the Big Island of Hawaii when it was still pristine and unspoiled?  When I shut the eyes of my crippled body, that is where I am, on the deck of that boat with Mauna Loa off in the distance.
      



         
      



         This is another of those stats that is incomprehensible to me if you at are at all familiar with the history of the growth of Homo Sap population and when it started to max out in some neighborhoods.  In Europe at the time of the Plagues, the population leveled off with a Global Population estimated at around 600M in that era.
      



         Image result for global population table
      



         After that of course, the New World was discovered, Native Inhabitants of that location systematically exterminated and then came the discovery of Fossil Fuels and how to apply them to Agriculture with Industrial Farming apparatus, Fertilizers and Pesticides, rapidly increasing the doubling rate for the Homo Sap population inhabing the Earth.  However, how much of that population is truly sustainable once the FFs have run out, not to mention the depletion of topsoil and aquifers and the pollution left behind here?  If that number was 1B even with all the Best Practices Permie techniques and hydroponics and aquaculture I would be flabberghasted.  I lowballed my estimate at 10M to 100M.  Maybe more than that, but I expect an Undershoot to persist for quite some time in the aftermath of the Collapse of Industrial Civilization.
      



         
      



         One of my favorite categories from this survey, because it is so far over the top.  The typical distribution of education levels in the FSoA comes up with around 30% with a Bachelor's degree or above, and around 2% with Doctoral level education sheepskins.
      



         Image result for educational attainment in the us
      



         Doomers however come in with about 3/4s (73%) of them with a Bachelor's degree or better, and an astounding 13% with the coveted "Dr." preceeding their name and letting everyone know you are an important and smart guy who gets paid a lot of money to sneer at nurses and any other staff below him on the hospital hierarchy list.  I'm not a big fan of Credentialism in general, and frankly I haven't found "Dr."s to be any smarter than the population at large, and often enough dumber.  However, this is an amazing statistic, demonstrating that in general Doomers are much better educated than the population at large.  Does that make them any more prescient?  Only time will tell on that score, but it does lend gravitas to the survey.
      



         
      



         One of the more common critiques you get if you are a Doomer aware of the Climate issues with increasing CO2 levels is if you use an Internal Combustion Engine car for your transportation.  Cries of HYPOCRISY are heard throughout the Commentariat of the Blogosphere!  Well, the stats show that said doomers are in fact "hypocrites" in this regard, with 2/3rds of them using carz as their primary mode of transportation.  Does this in REALITY make them hypocrites?  IMHO, no it does not.
      



         The fact of the matter is if you live inside Industrial Civilization in most places besides a few Big Shities with decent Public Transit systems, you simply can't get along or make a living for yourself without driving a car.  Even Public Transit though burns a shit load of fossil fuels, ever consider how much energy it takes to keep all those subway trains running in NYC 24/7/365?  At 3 AM sometimes I would get on the No. 7 Flushing Line and there would be NOBODY else in the train car, one of maybe 7-10 of these huge hunks of metal in the whole train.  How efficient a use of energy is that?
      



         People who drive Teslas, Volts and other EVs consider themselves "Green", but of course they also use electricity which is generally produced by burning fossil fuels.  The amount of energy contributed to this so far by Solar PV is marginal right now.   Besides that, the manufacture of photovoltaic cells takes energy and is the source of quite a bit of mining pollution as well, so you can cross yourself off the list of Greenies if you are driving one of these overpriced hunks of metal, glass & plastic around.
      



         You pretty much have to work down to the level of the Amish with a horse drawn carriage or use a bicycle all the time to be anywhere near "Green", and this just isn't practical for most people.  Doomer or not, aware of Climate problems or not, we're mostly going to continue driving carz until we just can't anymore.  How far off that day is remains an open question of course.
      



         
      



         Concommitant with owning a car and using it for your transit needs is how many miles do you actually DRIVE that car every week?  There's quite the range here as well amongst Kollapsniks, from the very low end of <10 miles/week (93 respondents/25%) to the high end of >1000 (3 respondents/1%).
      



         For the low end folks, I suspect they are retired/crippled folks like me who don't have to commute to work anymore.  Even if you only live a couple of miles from your workplace, you're going to drive more than 10 miles/week.  Add in those trips to the Food Superstore to pick up a bottle of milk you forgot on the way home or a six-pack of Sam Adams Boston Lager, you're easily over 20 miles for the week, and that's just the weekdays.  On the weekends you gotta chauffer the kids around to their various activities and play dates.
      



         For the high end folks clocking in at over 1000 miles/week, if that is just for commuting purposes I feel truly sorry for these folks.  5 days/week they are stuck in their car for two 100 mile journeys across the Interstate and through traffic, taking a likely minimum of 2 hours each way.  There's a great way to spend your time walking the earth! (or in this case, sitting & periodically rolling).  Some might also be professional drivers though, like taxi drivers or truck drivers.  When I was trucking, an average week would see me on the road for around 2500-3000 miles.
      



         Needless to say, all this driving burns a LOT of Fossil Fuels, but at the moment it is pretty much unavoidable, for most people living inside Industrial Civilization.
      



         
      



         Finishing off with the scurrying about Industrialized Homo Saps do each year is the issue of plane travel, another one which leaves you wide open to Hypocrisy criticisms if you are a self-proclaimed Greeny.  Here the critics have more validity, since about nobody really NEEDS to fly around in jets all over the world, even to do bizness.  There is little you cannot do via Teleconferencing these days, but even Dr. McStinksion flies across the globe to give lectures to his acolytes and let them know they are all hopelessly DOOMED.
      



         In our survey, the plurality of Kollapsniks don't fly at all, at 38% (141 Respondents).  Another 44% only fly once or twice a year, I fit in that category weighing in for an average of once a year.  Some years I don't fly at all, other years, two plane trips but overall it's about once a year.
      



         Then you have the cohort of Jet Setters getting molested by the TSA Goons 3-6 times a year.  For the most part in my Guesstimation, these are the upper middle class and moderately rich people who take several vacations every year to Snorkel in places like the Virgin Islands and to Ski the Deep Powder in the Rockies.  These people are now starting to burn some serious amounts of Jet Fuel.  Finally you have your filthy rich people who are flying anywhere from 7 and up times a year, who knows maybe even in Private Jets.  We have a couple of respondents in that category here, more on that next week when I chart out some of the demographics of Kollapsniks.  If you just look at the folks from 7 & Up flights though,  they burn more fuel than the whole cohort of people flying once a year or less!  One rich fuck can put a shit load of carbon into the atmosphere every year, no problem.  It's chump change for these folks!
      



         Can we/will we stop the flying around before TEOTWAWKI arrives?  Also unlikely.  It's not quite as built in to the culture or as necessary as the driving is, but it's close especially for people at the upper end who have high maintenance lifestyles and have come to expect this freedom of travel to far flung places.  I personally do not feel guilty when I board a

Title: Re: 2019 Collapse Survey Results: The 500 - Energy & Technology
Post by: AJ on January 06, 2019, 05:22:13 AM

         This one truly astounds me.  Even today, more than 1/5th of Kollapsniks buy into the Star Trek Futurology Mythology and think we will leave this planet to set up colonies on Mars and Beyond.  We can't even set up a self-sustaining colony in Antarctica, and it has air, water and suitable gravity for Homo Saps!  The "Space Station" we have up is decades old and is just a bunch of glorified RVs hooked together in space.  It's no 2001 Big Wheel in the Sky.  We don't have a propulsion system that is going to drive us through Interstellar Space and then be able also to land on and take off from any planets we migt find out there.  Yet this whole meme continues to be sold by dingbats like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos, who waste <span style="color:#008000;"><strong>$Billions$</strong></span> in debt money and Wall Street keeps funding them!  It's just preposterous and the stuff of childhood fantasies.  Grow <strong>UP</strong> people!  The Human Race was born on this planet and it will die here at some indeterminate point in the future.  Live with it.
      
I am flabbergasted that anyone with intelligence would buy into the Star Trek mythology at all. As a former Amateur Astronomer I figure that they must have NO KNOWLEDGE of Physics or Astronomy. There just ain't no faster than light shit out there (even though I liked Jodie Foster's "Contact" and sent SETI money in my ill informed youth). I thought James Hansen (godfather of Climate Scientists) got in right in his book, "Storms of My Grandchildren" where he has humanity extinct and an alien species arrives on Mars and sees the remainder of our vehicles and laments that humans turned Earth into another Venus. Musk is just a con-artist to the 0.1% (and they deserve it). The answer to the Fermi Paradox (and the Drake equation) might be ZERO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox).
Seems to me we are headed to confirming that also.
AJ
Title: Re: 2019 Collapse Survey Results: The 500 - Energy & Technology
Post by: RE on January 06, 2019, 06:49:00 AM

         This one truly astounds me.  Even today, more than 1/5th of Kollapsniks buy into the Star Trek Futurology Mythology and think we will leave this planet to set up colonies on Mars and Beyond.  We can't even set up a self-sustaining colony in Antarctica, and it has air, water and suitable gravity for Homo Saps!  The "Space Station" we have up is decades old and is just a bunch of glorified RVs hooked together in space.  It's no 2001 Big Wheel in the Sky.  We don't have a propulsion system that is going to drive us through Interstellar Space and then be able also to land on and take off from any planets we migt find out there.  Yet this whole meme continues to be sold by dingbats like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos, who waste <span style="color:#008000;"><strong>$Billions$</strong></span> in debt money and Wall Street keeps funding them!  It's just preposterous and the stuff of childhood fantasies.  Grow <strong>UP</strong> people!  The Human Race was born on this planet and it will die here at some indeterminate point in the future.  Live with it.
      
I am flabbergasted that anyone with intelligence would buy into the Star Trek mythology at all. As a former Amateur Astronomer I figure that they must have NO KNOWLEDGE of Physics or Astronomy. There just ain't no faster than light shit out there (even though I liked Jodie Foster's "Contact" and sent SETI money in my ill informed youth). I thought James Hansen (godfather of Climate Scientists) got in right in his book, "Storms of My Grandchildren" where he has humanity extinct and an alien species arrives on Mars and sees the remainder of our vehicles and laments that humans turned Earth into another Venus. Musk is just a con-artist to the 0.1% (and they deserve it). The answer to the Fermi Paradox (and the Drake equation) might be ZERO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox).
Seems to me we are headed to confirming that also.
AJ

The really amazing part is that it's not people from r/Futurology who believe this nonsense which you would expect,  it's Kollapsniks!  ::)

RE
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: Eddie on January 06, 2019, 12:17:13 PM
 Given the disasters of 3 Mile Island, Chernobyl and Fukushima, it's hard for me to understand how anyone can be in favor of Nuclear Energy

When I called the survey wacky, part of what I meant was that you make it very likely to get certain answers when you world the questions in  a certain way. This is a good example.

I can't remember how I voted actually but the two best choices, which got the most answers, leave a huge gap for a lot of people, who might fall in the middle somewhere.

For instance, I don't believe nukes will fail and end life on earth. I believe nukes will fail and make life on earth a lot more dangerous, more or less into perpetuity. But that was not one of the choices.

On the other hand, I don't believe nukes are necessary.

None of those answers describes my POV very well, and I suspect that many other people feel the same way.

Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: Eddie on January 06, 2019, 12:21:41 PM
 It's just preposterous and the stuff of childhood fantasies.  Grow UP people!  The Human Race was born on this planet and it will die here at some indeterminate point in the future.  Live with it.

Well, I expect that's right....unless, say, they discover vast amounts of FF's under the crust of Mars. Now that'd be a game changer. Honestly, I totally believe that's what's driving space exploration today. The secret reason. You heard it from me first.
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: Eddie on January 06, 2019, 12:29:07 PM
 2050 to 2100 starts to get more rational, but in neither case will I be alive that long, so after about 2040 (really, if I make it to 2025 that will be miraculous) it's irrelevant to me when Extinction arrives.  Not so for some younger and healthier Diners of course.  In the meantime though while you are waiting for the last Homo Sap on Planet Earth to expire, WTF do you DO with yourself?  Are you going to just throw up your hands and give up?  Pull your own plug and commit Seppuku?  What?

2050 to 2100 is the critical time. We either go extinct or we figure out how to get through the bottleneck and learn to live in a way that makes some kind of future, however dystopian, possible for homo saps.

In 2040 I'll be 85 years old, if I were to live that long. By then, I expect we will face extreme challenges of al kinds. I hope I live, just to experience whatever it turns out to be.
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: Eddie on January 06, 2019, 12:46:17 PM

         Don't you wish you were the Navigator on that first Cat-Rigged Sailing Canoe that made it to the Big Island of Hawaii when it was still pristine and unspoiled?  When I shut the eyes of my crippled body, that is where I am, on the deck of that boat with Mauna Loa off in the distance.

I wish I were at the helm of a well-found modern sailboat, with all the modern tech, set up for long distance cruising. In my view it would be even better than what you described. One really ironic thing is that in most places, most of the time, right now, in this current time we live in, the ocean is just as beautiful as it was way back then.

It creates a strong urge inside me to sell off and sail away. But it doesn't look like that's my karma this time. But I refuse to rule it out. In many ways, it makes the best sense, as far as the answer to your prior question....as in, what to do with my time while I wait for the zombie apocalypse.
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: Eddie on January 06, 2019, 12:54:58 PM
  Doomers however come in with about 3/4s (73%) of them with a Bachelor's degree or better, and an astounding 13% with the coveted "Dr." preceeding their name and letting everyone know you are an important and smart guy who gets paid a lot of money to sneer at nurses and any other staff below him on the hospital hierarchy list.  I'm not a big fan of Credentialism in general, and frankly I haven't found "Dr."s to be any smarter than the population at large, and often enough dumber.

It means something, this level of educational attainment. It just means something entirely different than whether someone is "dumb" or "smart". It's only tangentially related to that.

What it does mean is that people with Dr. in front of their names are capable of sustained focus, and were willing to hang in with the educational system (which largely does suck) in order to get some kind of credential. It means they are people who can work a plan to completion.
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: Eddie on January 06, 2019, 01:02:37 PM
 My estimates have continued to retreat in time however, to the point now I don't think anything is truly sustainable beyond Stone Age Technology.  There is only a small cohort of submitters who agree with me on this estimate, 2% or 9 submitters in total.  I have numerous reasons why I have come to this conclusion, too numerous and detailed to expand on here.  If you are curious to discuss it, drop in at the Survey Table inside the Diner and I'll be happy to explain the rationale for this.
     

And I now think it might happen so fast we might die while FF's are still plentiful, and technology is still making "progress"......if we can call it that. We might, for some small amount of time, even survive in some kind of shelters like the "biodomes" that have been tried over the past many years.

If...if we get a few people past the bottleneck, then stone age tech would be likely....except for one thing. The salvage economy, which would keep us way higher up the tech ladder.

Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: Eddie on January 06, 2019, 01:12:14 PM
 For the most part in my Guesstimation, these are the upper middle class and moderately rich people who take several vacations every year to Snorkel in places like the Virgin Islands and to Ski the Deep Powder in the Rockies.  These people are now starting to burn some serious amounts of Jet Fuel.

And maybe trips to visit a sick friend? Does that count, comrade? Piss on you, motherfucker.

I don't remember my answer. I think I only flew 4 times in 2018, but if I'm involved in a longer course of training, or in doomer education (and I have flown several times just for that), sometimes it's much more, maybe 10 trips.

WTF cares, the VAST majority of flights are by salesmen and business people. Your class envy is showing again.
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: RE on January 06, 2019, 01:43:32 PM
Given the disasters of 3 Mile Island, Chernobyl and Fukushima, it's hard for me to understand how anyone can be in favor of Nuclear Energy

When I called the survey wacky, part of what I meant was that you make it very likely to get certain answers when you world the questions in  a certain way. This is a good example.

I can't remember how I voted actually but the two best choices, which got the most answers, leave a huge gap for a lot of people, who might fall in the middle somewhere.

For instance, I don't believe nukes will fail and end life on earth. I believe nukes will fail and make life on earth a lot more dangerous, more or less into perpetuity. But that was not one of the choices.

On the other hand, I don't believe nukes are necessary.

None of those answers describes my POV very well, and I suspect that many other people feel the same way.

There was a choice in there if the other ones didn't satisfy you, it was labelled "Other".  13% of the respondents took that choice and wrote in pretty much what you said.  The survey was not "wacky".

Besides that, I offered you the opportunity to help construct the survey, you did not take it.  Now you just emanate Negative Waves and criticize me.  You don't have the right to be critical if you don't help when offered that opportunity.

RE
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: AJ on January 06, 2019, 01:52:59 PM

It means something, this level of educational attainment. It just means something entirely different than whether someone is "dumb" or "smart". It's only tangentially related to that.

What it does mean is that people with Dr. in front of their names are capable of sustained focus, and were willing to hang in with the educational system (which largely does suck) in order to get some kind of credential. It means they are people who can work a plan to completion.

That was great Eddie.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Long before Law School I started building a house in Tahoe on the weekends. Soon after starting I KNEW I was in way over my head (I had done construction as a teenager). BUT I convinced myself I could do it if I just did one thing at a time and then moved on to the next. Same with Law School years latter. At the start it looked so long to do 3 years then study for the Bar. One step at a time focus got me there. (Even got me to the top of my class (too bad it was a no-name law school :laugh:)). I think I have met more dumb lawyers than anyone (also some pretty evil ones too). So, I don't take credentials to mean intelligence (or only a certain amount of focused intelligence) just persistence toward a goal.
AJ

Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: azozeo on January 06, 2019, 02:01:20 PM

It means something, this level of educational attainment. It just means something entirely different than whether someone is "dumb" or "smart". It's only tangentially related to that.

What it does mean is that people with Dr. in front of their names are capable of sustained focus, and were willing to hang in with the educational system (which largely does suck) in order to get some kind of credential. It means they are people who can work a plan to completion.

That was great Eddie.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Long before Law School I started building a house in Tahoe on the weekends. Soon after starting I KNEW I was in way over my head (I had done construction as a teenager). BUT I convinced myself I could do it if I just did one thing at a time and then moved on to the next. Same with Law School years latter. At the start it looked so long to do 3 years then study for the Bar. One step at a time focus got me there. (Even got me to the top of my class (too bad it was a no-name law school :laugh:)). I think I have met more dumb lawyers than anyone (also some pretty evil ones too). So, I don't take credentials to mean intelligence (or only a certain amount of focused intelligence) just persistence toward a goal.
AJ


We've all done well for a "Let's make shit up as we go, society"....
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: RE on January 06, 2019, 02:07:38 PM
For the most part in my Guesstimation, these are the upper middle class and moderately rich people who take several vacations every year to Snorkel in places like the Virgin Islands and to Ski the Deep Powder in the Rockies.  These people are now starting to burn some serious amounts of Jet Fuel.

And maybe trips to visit a sick friend? Does that count, comrade? Piss on you, motherfucker.

Just doing a little needling. lol.

Yea, the trips to visit sick friends count.  Especially if you get a vacation Whale Watching and Hiking the Glaciers out of it.

Quote
I don't remember my answer. I think I only flew 4 times in 2018, but if I'm involved in a longer course of training, or in doomer education (and I have flown several times just for that), sometimes it's much more, maybe 10 trips.

I flew once in 2018 I think.  My Tombstone Adventure.  The only time I flew more often than 1-2 times/year was in the early years after the divorce when my hated father was living in other countries and I got flown to visit with him.  Once I flew on a 747 that was virtually empty.  Qantas Airlines in the 70s, not a real well run airline at the time.

Quote
WTF cares, the VAST majority of flights are by salesmen and business people.

Definitely not true of flights from Anchorage to Honolulu.  That is all tourists.  Definitely true that it's all "bizness" on flights from Anchorage to the Slope though.  That's all Oil workers.  Nobody goes to Barrow for a vacation.

However, the bizness flights count for the same upper middle class to rich people.  You don't get flown around for your job as a carpenter, although you might take a flight for a training workshop every couple of years or so.  You have to be making  a lot of money to fly around for your job, whether it is you or the company you work for directly foots the bill.

Quote
Your class envy is showing again.

You're framing the argument again with your own opinion.  It's not "class envy".  It's maldistribution of wealth, which ends with one class of people burning copious quantities of fossil fuels while the other class burns far less.  Poor people just don't burn as much FF as rich people do, they don't have the money to burn.

RE
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: Eddie on January 06, 2019, 02:47:29 PM
What I am is a regular guy who works his ass off and has a pretty decent life. Unlike most people on the planet, I get collapse.

I don't take kindly to other people (like you for instance)  whom I've gone out of my way to be nice to.....to turn on me and try to use me for a whipping boy because it suits their misguided purpose.

I'm not in need of anything from you. I frankly think, after getting to know you WAY better than anyone here, that you suffer from a pathological personality disorder. You've appointed yourself judge and jury of the rest of us mere mortals. Good thing almost nobody at all gives a shit what you think about anything,

I'm going to shut up now, because I don't want to say anything else. I could say much more, but there is no purpose there.

But stop shitting on me. I don't like it, and I won't put up with it.
Title: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey - In Between answers on Nuclear Energy
Post by: RE on January 06, 2019, 02:49:03 PM
Here's the responses from the "Other" category of the Nuclear Energy Question:

nuclear is dangerous but it can temporarily supply electricity but in the end, it could also mean the end of life on earth if we neglect to shut them down before we collapse or immediately after collapse.
It's too risky but it won't annihilate life on Earth.
Undemocratic and antithetical to a decentralized. post-empire human society.
Fusion or the use of Thorium is our only hope of maintaining a technological based lifestyle, otherwise back to hunter gatherer.
Dangerous but neccessary
In the middle. Better than fossil fuels, but inferior to renewables. As renewable use increases, nuclear use should decrease.
Inefficient and takes too long to build.
Is risky but if properly regulated and controlled by the public (not for profit corp.) it could be viable.
I dangerous and will eventually fail. But will not anihilate life on earth.
Dangerous but manageable, just not by human halfwits. Unsustainable
Answer C but probably won't annihilate all life just make us miserable and cancerous. 
Dark matter, Zero point
Dangerous at the scale which would make a difference to GHG emissions and, at that scale, would have insufficient resources anyway.
Dangerous and should be gradually scaled back and phased out
Is risky and will eventually fail because of human greed and carelessness, leading to uninhabitable areas on the planet.
Should be explored with great caution
c, but come on, not all life. 
Is dangerous, will eventually fail, and lead to highly radioactive areas on Earth's surface that will remain radioactive for a long time, but life will continue on other parts of Earth
Locally Risky but may not lead to global annihilation
Dangerous but will not lead to total annihilation of life on Earth
Dangerous but not as bad as the C option.
Option C without the annihilation of life
Too expensive, too harsh on the environment, and impossible to scale to needs
dangerious and will eventually fail
Is dangerous, and will eventually fail, leading to the the impairment of live on Planet Earth.
is dangerous and will eventurally cuase major problems, local to the plant and perhaps for larger sections of said country.
Unnecessary, dangerous and violent in its current format, using uranium and plutonium. The only reason we use U235 is because of the value of isotopes in medical imaging, and its value for 'dirty bombs' and contaminated bullets for 'war'. Thorium is a better choice for reactors, as it's readily available all over the Earth's surface, and the reaction stops if the power is cut (whereas Uranium/Plutonium goes rogue when power is cut, the reaction dysregulates, and Kaboom!)
Safe with molten salt thorium reactors.
Dangerous, will severely damage areas, realistically on the evidence will not lead to annihilation of life on planet earth.
Is dangerous and will fail but will not annihilate all life
is very dangerous, but will be necessary on a limited scale & for a finite period if the object is to transition to some form of recognisable "civilisation."
too dangerous for long-term use, and should be gradually phased out
Useful as installed but not a long term solution problems with waste
Dangerous and unable to be made safe
Modified "C"; is dangerous and will eventually fail, leading to large areas of radioactive contamination.
Isn't too risky but yet another extension of fossil fuels that will kick the can down the road and become unmaintainable
Safe but impossible to sustain without massive subsidy
Is dangerous and will eventually fail, leading to exclusion zones for humans
wont kill all life on earth but it'll make large parts of the earth a no-go zone for tens of thousands of years and cause immense damage.
close to C, it's a fundamentally flawed equation. it necessarily involves huge expenditures of a technological advanced nature, exactly at the time when it has stopped producing any output, and for centuries down the line. it is impossible to save that wealth and sophistication out of the profits of a running nuke site, so that its aftereffects can be properly taken care of. thus, all nuke sites will become horrendous no-go zones for thousands of years to come and nobody will have the means to cope with it. it won't kill all live on earth but it will make the period from about 50 years in the future on to a couple tens of thousands of years, a tricky time in history to try to stay alive, even without the rest of the collapse to deal with.
C  but not all life will die off
No place to put the never ending waste.
Will fail, but not destroy the earth.
Is risky and needs a high-energy industrial infrastructure which will not be available in the future.
I don't know enough to have an opinion
Is a better option than fossil fuels, but not by much.
Not quite C, dangerous, but I do not believe it will succeed in annihilation of life on Earth.
A technology which depends on FF for its existence, so will not offer any kind of long term 'solution' and it is potentially dangerous. 
Always disappoints - advertised as too cheap to meter, but even integrated molten salt reactor using thorium hasn't yet proved commercial.
between B and C
Will not work in long term, will NOT destroy planet
Dangerous and will eventually fail, causing permanent toxic environmental changes, but not complete annihilation of life on Earth
undesirable but will inevitably be used regardless
Just not worth the risk
Thorium, Molten Salt Reactors NOW!!!!!!
can be safe and should be developed
Development of Thorium reactors.
It's dangerous and will eventually fail but the "anihilation" effects will be limited to certain regions of the planet, and even there, if it happens to be in one of the climatically favorable parts of the planet, human beings will continue to live. The surviving populations will be those that rush to have children very early (mothers in their mid-teens) so that they can propagate before they die an ugly, painful death in their late teens and twenties.      In other parts of the planet, background radiation will go up significantly, but not to any more than an airplane employee (pilot, steward) receives today. A lot of exaggerated hype about the global impact of the (inevitable, imminent) nuclear disaster.
Somewhere between B and C. Will we learn how to safely dispose of waste before we lose the ability to do it? Probably not.
Something between B and C
Dangerous and not an op
Is dangerous and will be phased out
Dangerous and should not be pursued
Is a waste of time and resources
Undesirable but will end up being used anyway
Is safe as long as business as usual continues but will eventually be shut down and  managing radioactive will present a serious but manageable problem for generations to come.
is risky and will fail, but will not anihiliate life on earth
Is dangerous and will eventually fail


RE
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: RE on January 06, 2019, 02:56:01 PM
But stop shitting on me. I don't like it, and I won't put up with it.

I'm not "shitting on you".  I'm shitting on the class of people of which you are a member.

I will however refrain from using specific examples which directly apply to you.  I could have easily changed those locations and activities to other ones, but I thought you could take this in the spirit I used it, which was to get you to realize the cost of your lifestyle.  Instead, you get all mad at me for pointing out stuff which is obviously true and verifiable.

RE
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: Surly1 on January 06, 2019, 03:08:35 PM

It means something, this level of educational attainment. It just means something entirely different than whether someone is "dumb" or "smart". It's only tangentially related to that.

What it does mean is that people with Dr. in front of their names are capable of sustained focus, and were willing to hang in with the educational system (which largely does suck) in order to get some kind of credential. It means they are people who can work a plan to completion.

That was great Eddie.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Long before Law School I started building a house in Tahoe on the weekends. Soon after starting I KNEW I was in way over my head (I had done construction as a teenager). BUT I convinced myself I could do it if I just did one thing at a time and then moved on to the next...I think I have met more dumb lawyers than anyone (also some pretty evil ones too). So, I don't take credentials to mean intelligence (or only a certain amount of focused intelligence) just persistence toward a goal.
AJ

I could not agree more. Both  correct. The conference of certificates and degrees means exactly what Eddie says it does: the recipient possesses the persistence and means to follow a course of study to its conclusion. As we have discussed in this pissoir many times, credentialism is just another conduit scheme. Nearly every area of employment demands credentials, administered by gatekeepers, a layer of vultures and parasites well positioned to suck a living from others.

I am still engaged in the world of work as I have for the last 50 years. These trends have been in evidence ever since my cousin (we were booed tackles in college) managed to graduate and become a classroom teacher. He has as much business in a classroom as I did in an operating room. These trends have continued and metasticized. For proof, turn on the TV for an hour, and count the number of ads from "for profit" colleges directly marketing credential meal tickets to a new generation of otherwise-unemployables.

I'm home for a month recovering from hip surgery and watch a good amount of TV, and the torrent of ads are inescapable. And since these kids have neither money nor a pot to piss in, they have to borrow this boodle with loan programs underwritten by We Da Peepul. So after they enter the world of work, they carry a yoke of debt to keep them in line.

It's a wonderful little hamster-wheel.
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: RE on January 06, 2019, 03:32:36 PM

I could not agree more. Both  correct. The conference of certificates and degrees means exactly what Eddie says it does: the recipient possesses the persistence and means to follow a course of study to its conclusion. As we have discussed in this pissoir many times, credentialism is just another conduit scheme. Nearly every area of employment demands credentials, administered by gatekeepers, a layer of vultures and parasites well positioned to suck a living from others.

Credentialism is EVERYWHERE in Industrial Society.  I have earned more "credentials" than I care to count, but here's a few of them:

Expert Rifle from the NRA
Expert Archer from the US Archery Association
Life Scout from the Boy Scouts
Lifeguard Certification from the Red Cross
WSI from the Red Cross
SCUBA Certification from the National Association of Divers
First Aid & CPR from the Red Cross
Driver's License from the DMV
Motorcycle License from the DMV
CDL from the DMV
Elite Gymnastics Coach from the USGA
Clinical Medical Technologis & Supervisor's License form NYS
Teaching Certifications from NYS in 4 Disciplines, Biology, Chemistry, Physics & Mathematics

Lord only knows how many years I spent in getting all those tickets and doing periodic retraining to keep them active.  That took a lot of "stick to it-ness".  Then there is the last decade I spent writing about 10 Dissertations on the subjects of Collapse, with endless hours of research and dedication to that.  I'm as much a "Dr." as anybody else is in terms of the credential time I have spent to learn all this stuff.

RE
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: Surly1 on January 06, 2019, 03:32:50 PM
But stop shitting on me. I don't like it, and I won't put up with it.

I'm not "shitting on you".  I'm shitting on the class of people of which you are a member.

I will however refrain from using specific examples which directly apply to you.  I could have easily changed those locations and activities to other ones, but I thought you could take this in the spirit I used it, which was to get you to realize the cost of your lifestyle.  Instead, you get all mad at me for pointing out stuff which is obviously true and verifiable.

RE

RE, you could also give this shit a rest.

Each one of us thinks we are right: that every decision we make is as right and inevitable as if it were written by the Finger of God on the Akashic Records. And if you are trying to convince another person of anything, the absolute worst way to begin is to say, "You're wrong."

There are any number of ways to convince or to engage. And I should maybe try taking my own advice.

Of course, if your purpose is to be argumentative (not a stretch for a self-admitted troll), you don't do that. If you throw a punch, don't be surprised if you get jacked back.

I think your effort on the survey was well done, and the amount of support you got from other bloggers and from the 500+ respondents is exemplary. Some of the questions could have been designed better, sure. In fact, as I recall, you got lit up by some of the anecdotal on the "gender" question. For which I was just fucking baffled.

Count your successes and feel good about your accomplishment, secure in the knowledge that you now have material for the writing mill that will last you well into the future.
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: K-Dog on January 06, 2019, 03:34:56 PM
For the most part in my Guesstimation, these are the upper middle class and moderately rich people who take several vacations every year to Snorkel in places like the Virgin Islands and to Ski the Deep Powder in the Rockies.  These people are now starting to burn some serious amounts of Jet Fuel.

And maybe trips to visit a sick friend? Does that count, comrade? Piss on you, motherfucker.

Just doing a little needling. lol.

Yea, the trips to visit sick friends count.  Especially if you get a vacation Whale Watching and Hiking the Glaciers out of it.

Quote
I don't remember my answer. I think I only flew 4 times in 2018, but if I'm involved in a longer course of training, or in doomer education (and I have flown several times just for that), sometimes it's much more, maybe 10 trips.

I flew once in 2018 I think.  My Tombstone Adventure.  The only time I flew more often than 1-2 times/year was in the early years after the divorce when my hated father was living in other countries and I got flown to visit with him.  Once I flew on a 747 that was virtually empty.  Qantas Airlines in the 70s, not a real well run airline at the time.

Quote
WTF cares, the VAST majority of flights are by salesmen and business people.

Definitely not true of flights from Anchorage to Honolulu.  That is all tourists.  Definitely true that it's all "bizness" on flights from Anchorage to the Slope though.  That's all Oil workers.  Nobody goes to Barrow for a vacation.

However, the bizness flights count for the same upper middle class to rich people.  You don't get flown around for your job as a carpenter, although you might take a flight for a training workshop every couple of years or so.  You have to be making  a lot of money to fly around for your job, whether it is you or the company you work for directly foots the bill.

Quote
Your class envy is showing again.

You're framing the argument again with your own opinion.  It's not "class envy".  It's maldistribution of wealth, which ends with one class of people burning copious quantities of fossil fuels while the other class burns far less.  Poor people just don't burn as much FF as rich people do, they don't have the money to burn.

RE

Now here is the thing about that.

(http://fabulousplatformshoes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/imelda_marcos.jpg)

If you don't burn your share of jet fuel some rich asshole is going to do it for you.

Imagine this, a cartoon.  Something like Family Guy.  Lets give our cartoon character a beard, skinny in a vest and blue jeans.  A save the world type but lets not insult him by calling him an SJW.  This characature has been around since the late fifties and has hardly changed.  Austin may be a good place to see one to this day.  Most being smarter than this example.

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/10/80/6d/10806d1b64aa12f3179ac92d602558f5--vintage-cartoons-mad-magazine.jpg)

Our dude drives a gray Subarou in pretty good shape.  The back is covered in bumper stickers.

(https://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/7389477_f520.jpg)

Remembering this is a cartoon and any semblance to real life is coincidental. 

Our dude is driving his cartoon Subarou on the freeway.  Fog lies ahead.  It thickens but in the gloom our dude sees a sign ahead.  "Save The World".  An arrow points to the right and an off-ramp lies beyond.  Our hero takes the exit wondering why he had never noticed it before.  It seems normal enough, a highway bridge crosses the freeway at the top.  At the end of the off-ramp our hero stops for a stop sign.  Below the stop sign on the same pole there is a right turn arrow.  Or hero takes the right.

(https://proprofs-cdn.s3.amazonaws.com/images/FC/user_images/1864640/10502867905.gif)

The road becomes one way and merges onto a giant loop from which there is no exit.  A loop so large it seems like a regular one way road.  Gas stations and motels.  Bates types of motels where phones don't work and greasy spoon cafes where waitresses know nothing.  It takes more than a tank of gas to get around the loop and sometimes the gas stations are different in what looks to be the same spot a second time around.  But our hero won't notice as he won't notice getting old or wonder why his credit card always works.  For now our hero knows none of this.  He's merged into traffic.  Our hero follows a bumper sticker covered Volvo.

(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/52e30e1be4b0ce534c3bf435/567967cad8af10364e1e5235/567967cb1115e07a07206f7b/1450797004325/old+volvo+Bumper_sticker_filtered.jpg?format=500w)

A rainbow colored school bus follows him.  It is a busy road and traffic flows at a nice world saving twenty-five miles an hour.  Our hero thinks of lunch. 

There is a place along this road at a curve on the top of a hill where for a brief second every time around the outside world can sometimes be glimpsed.  Usually an odd fog prevents the view.  In the distance the freeway of the real world can be seen and on this freeway there is no magic.  Everywhere gas is guzzled at seventy miles an hour and nothing is saved.  It is a road unlike the one on which our traveler journeys on.  It's a road devoid of magical thinking.  It is a road devoid of thinking.

If our dude ever sees this road will he ever question why he turned right?  Perhaps the fog can't quite clear.  Some of it could remain behind the eyes.
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: Eddie on January 06, 2019, 03:52:42 PM
For the most part in my Guesstimation, these are the upper middle class and moderately rich people who take several vacations every year to Snorkel in places like the Virgin Islands and to Ski the Deep Powder in the Rockies.  These people are now starting to burn some serious amounts of Jet Fuel.

And maybe trips to visit a sick friend? Does that count, comrade? Piss on you, motherfucker.

Just doing a little needling. lol.

Yea, the trips to visit sick friends count.  Especially if you get a vacation Whale Watching and Hiking the Glaciers out of it.

Quote
I don't remember my answer. I think I only flew 4 times in 2018, but if I'm involved in a longer course of training, or in doomer education (and I have flown several times just for that), sometimes it's much more, maybe 10 trips.

I flew once in 2018 I think.  My Tombstone Adventure.  The only time I flew more often than 1-2 times/year was in the early years after the divorce when my hated father was living in other countries and I got flown to visit with him.  Once I flew on a 747 that was virtually empty.  Qantas Airlines in the 70s, not a real well run airline at the time.

Quote
WTF cares, the VAST majority of flights are by salesmen and business people.

Definitely not true of flights from Anchorage to Honolulu.  That is all tourists.  Definitely true that it's all "bizness" on flights from Anchorage to the Slope though.  That's all Oil workers.  Nobody goes to Barrow for a vacation.

However, the bizness flights count for the same upper middle class to rich people.  You don't get flown around for your job as a carpenter, although you might take a flight for a training workshop every couple of years or so.  You have to be making  a lot of money to fly around for your job, whether it is you or the company you work for directly foots the bill.

Quote
Your class envy is showing again.

You're framing the argument again with your own opinion.  It's not "class envy".  It's maldistribution of wealth, which ends with one class of people burning copious quantities of fossil fuels while the other class burns far less.  Poor people just don't burn as much FF as rich people do, they don't have the money to burn.

RE

Now here is the thing about that.

(http://fabulousplatformshoes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/imelda_marcos.jpg)

If you don't burn your share of jet fuel some rich asshole is going to do it for you.

Imagine this, a cartoon.  Something like Family Guy.  Lets give our cartoon character a beard, skinny in a vest and blue jeans.  A save the world type but lets not insult him by calling him an SJW.  This characature has been around since the late fifties and has hardly changed.  Austin may be a good place to see one to this day.  Most being smarter than this example.

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/10/80/6d/10806d1b64aa12f3179ac92d602558f5--vintage-cartoons-mad-magazine.jpg)

Our dude drives a gray Subarou in pretty good shape.  The back is covered in bumper stickers.

(https://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/7389477_f520.jpg)

Remembering this is a cartoon and any semblance to real life is coincidental. 

Our dude is driving his cartoon Subarou on the freeway.  Fog lies ahead.  It thickens but in the gloom our dude sees a sign ahead.  "Save The World".  An arrow points to the right and an off-ramp lies beyond.  Our hero takes the exit wondering why he had never noticed it before.  It seems normal enough, a highway bridge crosses the freeway at the top.  At the end of the off-ramp our hero stops for a stop sign.  Below the stop sign on the same pole there is a right turn arrow.  Or hero takes the right.

(https://proprofs-cdn.s3.amazonaws.com/images/FC/user_images/1864640/10502867905.gif)

The road becomes one way and merges onto a giant loop from which there is no exit.  A loop so large it seems like a regular one way road.  Gas stations and motels.  Bates types of motels where phones don't work and greasy spoon cafes where the waitresses know nothing.  It takes more than a tank of gas to get around this loop and sometimes the gas stations are different in what looks to be the same spot a second time around.  But our hero won't notice as he won't notice getting old or wonder why his credit card always works.  For now our hero knows none of this.  He merges into the traffic.  Our hero follows a bumper sticker covered Volvo.

(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/52e30e1be4b0ce534c3bf435/567967cad8af10364e1e5235/567967cb1115e07a07206f7b/1450797004325/old+volvo+Bumper_sticker_filtered.jpg?format=500w)

A rainbow colored school bus follows.  It is a busy road and the traffic flows at a nice world saving thirty miles an hour.  Our hero thinks of lunch. 

There is a place along this road on top of a hill where for a second every time around the outside world can sometimes be glimpsed.  Usually an odd fog prevents it.  In the distance the real world freeway can be seen and on this freeway there is no magic.  Everywhere gas is guzzled at seventy miles an hour and nothing is saved.  It is a road unlike the one on which our traveler journeys.  A road devoid of magical thinking.

Yet our dude never questions why he turned right.

Sorry, I lost you at the beautiful shoes.

Your analogy, obviously meant to point out my personal blind spot, doesn't piss me off as much as RE's blathering on, but then, I don't really know you. And conversely, you don't know me.

The world, as we know it, is about to end. I am not anything at all like Imelda Marcos, and I hate bumper stickers.

Alfred E. Neuman is passing into obscurity as we move into our brave new world.

Do what you gotta do and be who you wanna be. I'm alright. You don't need to worry about me.....unless you fuck with me.
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: RE on January 06, 2019, 05:26:17 PM
Your analogy, obviously meant to point out my personal blind spot, doesn't piss me off as much as RE's blathering on

I'm not "blathering".  I'm writing cogent analysis.

RE
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: RE on January 06, 2019, 06:54:02 PM

         Don't you wish you were the Navigator on that first Cat-Rigged Sailing Canoe that made it to the Big Island of Hawaii when it was still pristine and unspoiled?  When I shut the eyes of my crippled body, that is where I am, on the deck of that boat with Mauna Loa off in the distance.

I wish I were at the helm of a well-found modern sailboat, with all the modern tech, set up for long distance cruising. In my view it would be even better than what you described. One really ironic thing is that in most places, most of the time, right now, in this current time we live in, the ocean is just as beautiful as it was way back then.

Well, given all the plastic debris floating around the Ocean these days, I'm not sure it is quite as beautiful as it once was.  Besides that, there's just about nowhere that's really pristine and unspoiled to make landfall like Hawaii was in ~1000AD.  Even Ocean Falls has a Hydro Plant built on it.  They also did a lot of logging of the neighborhood until they were forced to close the Paper Plant due to Asbestos contamination.  The plant and the asbestos are probably still there though.

Far as your sailboat having all the latest in electronic gizmos, winches and ultralight polymer sails, I do agree it's certainly nicer to sail with all the creature comforts and the assistance of modern technology.  But you pay a price for that in terms of resilience.  If their boat broke down, they could fix just about everything even while at sea, and once making landfall could craft new parts from local materials.  You can't do that with a modern sailboat.

If you were alive back then, you wouldn't miss all that cool technology, because it hadn't been invented and never existed.  To you, the technology of your boat would be the best there was.  In my dreams, I like the simplicity of all that and its sustainability for 1000s of years through all the migrations.  I'm sure it wouldn't be very comfortable for a modern Industrial era Homo Sap, and they certainly wouldn't take a cripple along for the ride. lol.  But in my dreams I'm not a cripple anymore.  I'm the 25 year old I once was, doing giant swings on the high bar and double backs on the trampoline.

RE
Title: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey - Update
Post by: RE on January 07, 2019, 01:25:24 AM
Now UP on Global Economic Intersection!  :icon_sunny:

http://econintersect.com/pages/opinion/opinion.php?post=201901070237 (http://econintersect.com/pages/opinion/opinion.php?post=201901070237)

We also currently have FEATURE POSITION on the Homepage!

http://econintersect.com/ (http://econintersect.com/)

Don't know how long that will last though.

Not too bad for a "wacky" survey.

RE
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey - Update
Post by: Eddie on January 07, 2019, 07:02:40 AM
Now UP on Global Economic Intersection!  :icon_sunny:

http://econintersect.com/pages/opinion/opinion.php?post=201901070237 (http://econintersect.com/pages/opinion/opinion.php?post=201901070237)

We also currently have FEATURE POSITION on the Homepage!

http://econintersect.com/ (http://econintersect.com/)

Don't know how long that will last though.

Not too bad for a "wacky" survey.

RE

Interesting phenomenon in progress. I've been thinking. In the past five years, the interest in doom has faded way back All those dire collapse blogs.....Xray Mike, a bunch of others.....just faded. I assume those guys are still alive. I assume they haven't really changed their outlook. I haven't.

I know doom is real....but it's worth noting that with the general population, it only becomes a topic worth reading about when the stock market starts to correct and financial panic sets in. Looks like doom will be back on the front burner now for a while.

Which is okay I guess. But one thing looks clear to me. An awful lot of doomers only come out of the woodwork when the situation seems to be getting dire.  Maybe some of it is fear....which is certainly justified, in my book. But a lot of it also seems to me to be wishing for bad luck and knocking on wood.

Those who have failed to thrive in BAU get a chance to cheer as America's big corporations take a hit on their stock prices. Their pent up frustration over wealth inequality can find an outlet....look, see, all that money, up in smoke. Serves 'em right, the greedy bastards.

But that's a short-sided view. Crashing markets mean more lost jobs, more personal tragedies for ordinary people. Maybe energy consumption might drop off. Good thing for the planet...but is it enough to matter? Probably not.

Survey says lots of doomers are highly educated. I'm not as worried about them in the short run. They have good jobs and lives and reasons to hang on.

The rest of the doom aware crowd might not be so stable. They are the ones to watch. Where do we go from here? My guess, if the economy  stabilizes, they will drift back off into don't-give-a-shit land. If not, they might get rowdy. Turn to populist leaders promising everything and delivering nothing.

Congrats on the survey. Sorry I called it wacky. I think it netted lots of good information.



Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey - Update
Post by: Surly1 on January 07, 2019, 06:28:46 PM
Now UP on Global Economic Intersection!  :icon_sunny:

http://econintersect.com/pages/opinion/opinion.php?post=201901070237 (http://econintersect.com/pages/opinion/opinion.php?post=201901070237)

We also currently have FEATURE POSITION on the Homepage!

http://econintersect.com/ (http://econintersect.com/)

Don't know how long that will last though.

Not too bad for a "wacky" survey.

RE


2019 Collapse Survey Results: Energy And Technology

Written by Reverse Engineer, Doomstead Diner

Discuss this article at the Survey Table inside the Diner. Special note:

No parts of this study may be used on commercial websites that use Advertising or sell Merchandise such as the Author's books, or which have Paywalls without the express consent of the Doomstead Diner and the Sustaining Universal Needs Foundation. None of the charts and graphs may be altered in any way or the copyright and logos removed from those charts.

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As it appears in the daily email blast from GEI.
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey - Update
Post by: AJ on January 08, 2019, 04:39:35 AM

Which is okay I guess. But one thing looks clear to me. An awful lot of doomers only come out of the woodwork when the situation seems to be getting dire.  Maybe some of it is fear....which is certainly justified, in my book. But a lot of it also seems to me to be wishing for bad luck and knocking on wood.

But that's a short-sided view. Crashing markets mean more lost jobs, more personal tragedies for ordinary people. Maybe energy consumption might drop off. Good thing for the planet...but is it enough to matter? Probably not.

Survey says lots of doomers are highly educated. I'm not as worried about them in the short run. They have good jobs and lives and reasons to hang on.

The rest of the doom aware crowd might not be so stable. They are the ones to watch. Where do we go from here? My guess, if the economy  stabilizes, they will drift back off into don't-give-a-shit land. If not, they might get rowdy. Turn to populist leaders promising everything and delivering nothing.

All good observations Eddie,
I think for me that the main reason is "wishing for bad luck"(wish fulfillment???). I am surrounded by people (wife, some kids, most everyone else) who are into BAU and think my focus on permaculture, sustainability and Doom are just plain crazy. I do have a couple of kids and a brother who actually get it and are Doom lite. When you put a lot of emotional energy into something you want to be proven right. The problem for myself and others of course it the "rowdy" part of your message. When SHTF no one knows who will get spattered.
I do also think there is a small chance (McPherson notwithstanding) that collapse could save some part of the planet for some homo saps.
AJ
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey - Update
Post by: Surly1 on January 08, 2019, 08:11:51 AM

Which is okay I guess. But one thing looks clear to me. An awful lot of doomers only come out of the woodwork when the situation seems to be getting dire.  Maybe some of it is fear....which is certainly justified, in my book. But a lot of it also seems to me to be wishing for bad luck and knocking on wood.

But that's a short-sided view. Crashing markets mean more lost jobs, more personal tragedies for ordinary people. Maybe energy consumption might drop off. Good thing for the planet...but is it enough to matter? Probably not.

Survey says lots of doomers are highly educated. I'm not as worried about them in the short run. They have good jobs and lives and reasons to hang on.

The rest of the doom aware crowd might not be so stable. They are the ones to watch. Where do we go from here? My guess, if the economy  stabilizes, they will drift back off into don't-give-a-shit land. If not, they might get rowdy. Turn to populist leaders promising everything and delivering nothing.

All good observations Eddie,
I think for me that the main reason is "wishing for bad luck"(wish fulfillment???). I am surrounded by people (wife, some kids, most everyone else) who are into BAU and think my focus on permaculture, sustainability and Doom are just plain crazy. I do have a couple of kids and a brother who actually get it and are Doom lite. When you put a lot of emotional energy into something you want to be proven right. The problem for myself and others of course it the "rowdy" part of your message. When SHTF no one knows who will get spattered.
I do also think there is a small chance (McPherson notwithstanding) that collapse could save some part of the planet for some homo saps.
AJ

A "focus on permaculture, sustainability and Doom" are going to appear extremely contrarian, "just plain crazy" to people deeply invested in BAU and presentism. It is a lonely road not often taken.

As RE has demonstrated, the math on NTHE makes the likelihood extremely small.
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: K-Dog on January 08, 2019, 09:52:25 AM

Which is okay I guess. But one thing looks clear to me. An awful lot of doomers only come out of the woodwork when the situation seems to be getting dire.  Maybe some of it is fear....which is certainly justified, in my book. But a lot of it also seems to me to be wishing for bad luck and knocking on wood.

But that's a short-sided view. Crashing markets mean more lost jobs, more personal tragedies for ordinary people. Maybe energy consumption might drop off. Good thing for the planet...but is it enough to matter? Probably not.

Survey says lots of doomers are highly educated. I'm not as worried about them in the short run. They have good jobs and lives and reasons to hang on.

The rest of the doom aware crowd might not be so stable. They are the ones to watch. Where do we go from here? My guess, if the economy  stabilizes, they will drift back off into don't-give-a-shit land. If not, they might get rowdy. Turn to populist leaders promising everything and delivering nothing.

All good observations Eddie,
I think for me that the main reason is "wishing for bad luck"(wish fulfillment???). I am surrounded by people (wife, some kids, most everyone else) who are into BAU and think my focus on permaculture, sustainability and Doom are just plain crazy. I do have a couple of kids and a brother who actually get it and are Doom lite. When you put a lot of emotional energy into something you want to be proven right. The problem for myself and others of course it the "rowdy" part of your message. When SHTF no one knows who will get spattered.
I do also think there is a small chance (McPherson notwithstanding) that collapse could save some part of the planet for some homo saps.
AJ

A "focus on permaculture, sustainability and Doom" are going to appear extremely contrarian, "just plain crazy" to people deeply invested in BAU and presentism. It is a lonely road not often taken.

As RE has demonstrated, the math on NTHE makes the likelihood extremely small.

Ask yourself if your truth is a good truth.  If you find it is then live it without hesitation.  BAU is like heroin to most people.  If they stop pretending for a moment they are part of the churn of daily life; even if all they do is hide from the dizzy vertigo of it they would find a deep emptiness where their soul should be.  The first look at that man in the mirror is always a hideous sight.  How can't it be.  The un-tempered raw expression a particularly twisted evolution, humanity.  Facing that man in the mirror the first time is hard for anybody and BAU keeps most people from ever having to look.

(https://www.pngmart.com/files/3/Grasshopper-PNG-Photo.png)

Those who would wish another to look are crazy by definition.



Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey - Update
Post by: Eddie on January 08, 2019, 11:57:45 AM

Which is okay I guess. But one thing looks clear to me. An awful lot of doomers only come out of the woodwork when the situation seems to be getting dire.  Maybe some of it is fear....which is certainly justified, in my book. But a lot of it also seems to me to be wishing for bad luck and knocking on wood.

But that's a short-sided view. Crashing markets mean more lost jobs, more personal tragedies for ordinary people. Maybe energy consumption might drop off. Good thing for the planet...but is it enough to matter? Probably not.

Survey says lots of doomers are highly educated. I'm not as worried about them in the short run. They have good jobs and lives and reasons to hang on.

The rest of the doom aware crowd might not be so stable. They are the ones to watch. Where do we go from here? My guess, if the economy  stabilizes, they will drift back off into don't-give-a-shit land. If not, they might get rowdy. Turn to populist leaders promising everything and delivering nothing.

All good observations Eddie,
I think for me that the main reason is "wishing for bad luck"(wish fulfillment???). I am surrounded by people (wife, some kids, most everyone else) who are into BAU and think my focus on permaculture, sustainability and Doom are just plain crazy. I do have a couple of kids and a brother who actually get it and are Doom lite. When you put a lot of emotional energy into something you want to be proven right. The problem for myself and others of course it the "rowdy" part of your message. When SHTF no one knows who will get spattered.
I do also think there is a small chance (McPherson notwithstanding) that collapse could save some part of the planet for some homo saps.
AJ

I'm right there with you on the denial factors. Wives, even really smart ones, do not tend to be big picture thinkers. They focus on what is at hand. Some of that is probably genetic. Women are oriented toward their children, even after the children are grown. We've had exactly two regular female Diners, and one was banned as a troll.  But she got collapse, never mind she was a racist and a very angry old woman. The other was/is a real outlier who only occasionally participated, usually checking on RE's health....even though I know she gets doom, it does not consume her thoughts, I don't believe.

My wife is a skeptic, but (and I expect this applies to your wife as well) she does know I'm not stupid, so she really is just waiting until it's time for her to act in a more necessary role. Like a lot of people who listen to NPR and read the NYT, she has a huge normalcy bias. She thinks my food preps will someday end up in the landfill...and I hope she's right, but it's looking like she might be wrong. I'd rather BE wrong, but I keep prepping anyway.  I'm not wrong. Only the timing is unknown at this point.

My kids talk about "the zombie apocalypse" in a light-hearted way, but anybody under 40 with one eye and half sense knows the world is not as it should be. But they have to go on....what other choice is there, really?

People in general, except for people who read Beckwith and McKibben and people like that, don't really know what to believe. And I mean people CAPABLE of getting it, not stupid people. We have a whole industry in this country dedicated to spreading all kinds of false info....whatever you want to pay for, they can muddy the waters......sort of like that old criminal  lawyer ad......"a reasonable doubt for a reasonable fee".

My guess is it'll be further into the future. My very un-expert opinion is that Beckworth et.al. can see the big picture fine, but calling it in 36 months presumes trusting models that have never really been tested, and which  by necessity not only ignore positive feedback loops like the "methane gun", but also negative feedback loops, which might or might not exist.

I haven't read Beckworth's latest dire predictions....why bother? I'll know the problem when it gets here, which will no doubt be soon enough.
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: Eddie on January 08, 2019, 12:16:51 PM
My current view has morphed too...like RE, I see it a little different than I did 8 years ago.

The dire predictions on climate might mean we die with our computers and cars still working fine. We might go from 21st century tech to tardigrades, in a couple of years. We could easily bypass the 19th century and the stone age both, in a hurry.

Heat can be dealt with if we have power. Without power, we're goners.  They might drop nukes just to try to cause a nuclear winter....

Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: K-Dog on January 08, 2019, 01:15:49 PM
False dichotomy and it results in paralysis.  NTE is unlikely.  All that is known now is that it will be horribly bad and a die-off is in the works.  Live for all the possibilities.
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: AJ on January 09, 2019, 04:53:05 AM
I'd wish for Nuclear Winter too, except for the fact that the amount of CO2 that it would put into the atmosphere would probably doom us once the ash that would cool us for a short time dissipated. Not to mention all the radiation from the Nuke bombs and the Nuke Puke plants going Fukushima.
My wife is very much like yours Eddie. Except she thinks my prepping is a cause to doubt my intelligence.
My son basically gets my doom argument but has taken the BAU has to go on as his only alternative to despondency. One of my daughters really gets doom and agrees with all my preps. She figures she will probably be dead in 10 years, so why invest in an advanced degree, enjoy life now (this from a Phi Beta Kappa in Neurobiology). She has a new friend who is a PhD candidate in Paleo-Geology who gets doom(climate catastrophe) too. It will be interesting to meet that person.
That site that JOW put up yesterday http://arctic-news.blogspot.com/2019/ (http://arctic-news.blogspot.com/2019/) was really depressing. I read quite a bit there and I think that there are more and more scientists coming to the NTHE result than just Paul Beckwith and Guy McPherson. I dismissed McPherson a few years ago as a anomaly, maybe not so much anymore. Just saying that maybe this subject needs a rethink.
AJ
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: Eddie on January 09, 2019, 05:16:53 AM
I have said in the past that geo-engineering is coming in a big way. Looks like that's getting more likely, and closer. Not that I expect that to go well.
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: Surly1 on January 09, 2019, 05:33:45 AM
I have said in the past that geo-engineering is coming in a big way. Looks like that's getting more likely, and closer. Not that I expect that to go well.

What could possibly go wrong?

Look at the sponsorship opportunities!

(https://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large-5/a-man-and-3-children-sit-around-a-fire-tom-toro.jpg)
Title: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey gets picked up by Olduvai.ca
Post by: RE on January 12, 2019, 12:59:14 PM
I just wish he got the name right. 😠  It's DoomSTEAD Diner not DoomsDAY Diner!

Demographic Overview coming tomorrow to a Laptop near you.  :icon_sunny:

RE

https://olduvai.ca/?p=42636

The Future as Seen by the Doomers. It Will be the Seneca Rebound!
By olduvai in Energy, Survival on January 12, 2019.
The Future as Seen by the Doomers. It Will be the Seneca Rebound!

(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-o9y6Ai4cx8s/XDUGxHJeYCI/AAAAAAAAkGQ/bOmaUbEGlEMw-3tpGiBxXDHGdkPC7EVSwCLcBGAs/s640/Kollapsinks.PNG)

Recently, RE (Reverse Engineer) of the famed “Doomsday Diner”  ;D carried out an opinion poll among the people frequenting some of the most doomeristic/catastrophistic/millennialistic sites of the Web (including Ugo Bardi’s blog, Cassandra’s Legacy).

Refreshingly, a majority of the members of this group of hard-liners are in favor of renewable energy! Only 36% of the group think that renewable energy is useless, while 57% think it will power a sustainable technological civilization.

So, maybe you are one of those people who feel it is their duty to pester the discussions on this subject with your favorite statement that goes as “renewable energy plants are built using energy coming from fossil fuels, therefore will never be anything but fossil fuel extenders.” Then, know that not only you are wrong, you also understood nothing of the concept of EROI, and, finally, you are also a minority even among the minority of the millennialists of the Web.

Yes, the transition will not be easy, but renewable energy is the future of humankind. It is the Seneca Rebound, baby!

Tags: cassandra's legacy, collapse, doomsday diner, energy return on energy invested, eroi, future, renewable energy, seneca rebound, seneca sliff, survey, ugo bardi
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: Eddie on January 12, 2019, 01:28:48 PM
Doomsday Diner.....I love it. ROTFLMAO!!!! I'm stealing that.

Congrats though. Well done.
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: RE on January 12, 2019, 02:05:15 PM
Doomsday Diner.....I love it. ROTFLMAO!!!! I'm stealing that.

Congrats though. Well done.

THX.  :icon_sunny:  It pays to be "wacky". lol.  You'll never live that one down.  ;D

Another one you will never live down in progress today.  Have a guess what it is I am DOING as we speak (well, text actually, but whatevah).

RE
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: Surly1 on January 12, 2019, 02:17:10 PM
Doomsday Diner.....I love it. ROTFLMAO!!!! I'm stealing that.

Congrats though. Well done.

THX.  :icon_sunny:  I pays to be "wacky". lol.  You'll never live that one down.  ;D

RE

RE, you're the regular Lucy Ricardo of doom~!
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: RE on January 12, 2019, 02:29:58 PM
Doomsday Diner.....I love it. ROTFLMAO!!!! I'm stealing that.

Congrats though. Well done.

THX.  :icon_sunny:  I pays to be "wacky". lol.  You'll never live that one down.  ;D

RE

RE, you're the regular Lucy Ricardo of doom~!

Who doesn't love Lucy? ???  :icon_scratch:

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BNDhhN2Y1NzMtNGVlZS00MTNjLWIxN2ItYzJiN2ZhMTc2OGIwXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNTA4NzY1MzY@._V1_.jpg)

 ;D

RE
Title: 2019 Collapse Survey Results - The 500: Who are the Kollapsniks? - The Demographics
Post by: RE on January 13, 2019, 02:36:59 AM


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Published on the Doomstead Diner on January 13, 2018






Discuss this article at the Survey Table inside the Diner



 










Notes from RE:



1- Although the title says 500, I actually took this snapshot of the Stats when the numbers were between 430-435.  They are now at 558 as I publish this article.  I chose 500 because it sounds good and it's right between the 300 of Thermopylae and the 600 of the Light Brigade.  Percentages haven't changed much with the additional submissions since the snapshot was taken.  We will no doubt add quite a few more respondents with this article since I am leaving the survey open for the time being.  460 respondents marked the point at which the survey gained a 99% Confidence Level with a 6% Confidence Interval for a population size of 100,000, but more is always better when it comes to surveys.



Respondents who added their email addys will get a pdf of the survey results right around 500, depending when I take the snapshot.  More in depth analysis can be done with the spreadsheet, you can parse the numbers with that.  Contact me on the Diner if you are interested in doing a more detailed numerical analysis and have verifiable background with which to do it.



If you use the results of this survey in any academic papers or documents, please reference the Doomstead Diner as the source in your footnotes.  Also please inform me through the Contact Page on the Diner if you are going to use the survey or its charts and graphs in this way, or on you blogs if you have one.









No parts of this study may be used on commercial websites that use Advertising or sell Merchandise such as the Author's books, or which have Paywalls without the expressed consent of the Doomstead Diner and the Sustaining Universal Needs Foundation.  None of the charts and graphs may be altered in any way or the copyright and logos removed from those charts.


The Survey remains OPEN at this time.  Responses keep dribbling in and I don't want to leave anyone out of the final Tally.



2-  Most of the questions don't tally to the full 430 or so when I took the snapshot.  This because all respondents don't answer all questions.



3- Statistical Significance:  This is always a bone of contention with any survey.  How significant is it really?  How big is the population you are surveying?



It's tough to estimate exactly how many people were surveyed here across all the websites, but I'm putting the Outer Limit at 100,000.  r/collapse has the largest circulaton with almost 90,000 subscribers, but many of them no longer participate or read the sub anymore.  Also unlikely that in 2 weeks all the currently active redditors saw the links to the survey.  All the rest of the blogs and forums are much smaller, so 100,000 seems like a good outer limit here.



At this level of population, the Survey comes in with a 99% Confidence Level and a 6% Confidence Interval, IOW it's very significant for this size population.  It's likely quite accurate in its numbers.  Caculations done with the Survey Calculator on SurveySystems.com.



4- Question Structure Complaints:  Once again with all surveys, complaints come in with the way the questions are structured and what the answer choices are.  In this case I tried to give as many places for a free form write-in response as possible.  Many respondents took advantage of this and I will publish their responses in follow up articles or Inside the Diner in the Surveys thread.



5- "Americentric" Complaints:  Specific to this survey, several complaints came in that it was "Americentric", which really is not true.  There are a few questions specific to the Amerikan Political Sewer, but most of the questions are applicable to Kollapsniks who live anywhere at all.



 



Thanks to all the Kollapsniks from all websites who dropped in their 2 cents on this survey.  Special thanks to the following 7 websites which contributed the bulk of the opinions (sites with >5 Repsondents):



 



#1- Reddit r/collapse with 168 Submissions



#2- Cassandra's Legacy with 121 Submissions



#3- The Burning Platform with 98 Submissions



#4- The Doomstead Diner with 68 Submissions



#5-  Economic Undertow with 16 Submissions



#6- Our Finite World with 13 Submissions



#7- Truthdig with 7 Submissions



 



Each of these websites has a somewhat different readerhship, I'll make some general observations here from my time participating on all of these websites  as a (rather prolific, lol) commenter and TROLL. Before Admining my own site, I was a first class annoying troll in the commentariat of NUMEROUS websites, I can't even count them all anymore.  I was BANNED from most of them. lol.



 



#1- r/collapse: Like the rest of Reddit, r/collapse is dominated by social media freak Millenials.  Their education and knowledge of the problems we face is very diverse.  Some are well read up, others are fucking clueless idiots.  Their numbers are HUGE, dwarfing any of the single collapse websites.  Their Political viewpoints vary from the far right to the far left, leaning more toward the left.



#2- Cassandra's Legacy:  Prof. Ugo Bardi's Blog.  He teaches Physical Chemistry at the Univeristy of Firenza in Italy.   Ugo is a member of the Club of Rome and participated in the original Limits to Growth study done int he 1970s.  The website is LOADED with Academics with Ph.Ds.  It's one of the reasons we have such a high education level recorded in this survey.  Ugo and I collaborated on many video discussions of Collapse Issues which can be found on the Diner YouTube Channel.



#3- The Burning Platform: Run by Jim Quinn, a CPA who handles the books at the Wharton Biz Skule in the Ivy League.  A Baby Boomer who denies he is a Baby Boomer, for whom the 4th Turning by Strauss & Howe is the Bible of Collapse.  Very Right-Wing/Libertarian leaning website, with quite a vocal commentariat.  I praticipated on that site for a couple of years and wrote numerous contrarian articles there.  It was very entertaining. lol.



#4- The Doomstead Diner: My Doom Website, established in 2012 by myself and my co-Admin Surly and our Code Jockey tech designer Peter.  The #1 Go-To Website on the net for Collapse Newz.  Generally Left leaning politically, but we do have a few contrarian Libertarians who chip in their 2 cents as well.  A very contentious commentariat, not a place for the meek.  Don your Fireproof BVDs before you sign in. lol.



#5- Economic Undertow: Run by Steve Ludlum, aka Steve from Virginia.  An economic technical site with a very different from mainstream analysis you can get anywhere else, and usually right on the mark.  Steve also collaborated with me on many videos.  A relatively apolitical website.



#6- Our Finite World:  Run by Gail Tverberg, a former professional Actuary who does many charts and graphs to illustrate her POV on the energy problems we face.  OFW has become increasingly Doomerish over the years, although the site has little political spin at all, just some very vehement Nihilists.  Gail also collaborrated with me on numerous discussions and videos.  No discernible Political Spin to this website.



#7- Truthdig:  Chris Hedges website.  Chris is a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist and an unabshed Socialist with a Capital S.  He himself does have a net worth in the $Millions$ though. lol.  He's a fabulous speaker and does great interviews as well.



 



Now, on to the charts from the survey.  For today, we look at the Demographic Questions.  I'll make a few brief comments beneath each chart.   For further analysis and discussion, visit the Survey Table inside the Diner.




 



Survey still OPEN



Survey now @ 558 Submissions



 






This was one of the more interesting (and colorful!) Doughnut charts on the survey.  The Political Spectrum from which Kollapsniks come is quite diverse, that's why the chart is filled with so many colors.



Of interest first is how few Doomers identify themselves as either traditional Demodopes or Repugnants.  The overwhelming majority of Kollapsniks are fed up with BAU in Washington (and their more local legislatures) and are abandoning these parties in droves, although on both sides of this artificial divide they mostly still do vote for one candidate or the other, because in the FSoA 3rd Party candidates simply can't win and just end up being spoilers for one side or the other.



Where most of them have migrated to in their thinking though is either to the Democratic-Socialists (best exemplafied in the FSoA so far by Bernie Sanders) or the Libertarians (best exmplified in the FSoA so far by Ron Paul and his Heir-Apparent Rand Paul).



More interesting to me than this were the number of respondents who identified themselves as either outright Fascist or Communist.  7% in total in this snapshot, holding fairly steady with the combined total now at 8%.  Communists lead Fascists 5%-3%.  I am fairly astounded though that this large a segment of the population will identify themselves outright with either political system.  Both have received tons of bad press over the years since WWII, and in Amerika most people would rather be "Better Dead than Red".  Kollapsniks take on these beliefs I think because they are so thoroughly disgusted with BAU and only see a major revolution as having any chance at actually changing things.



 






A pretty much expected result here, but quite different I think from the general public.  My sense there is they get most of their newz and political beliefs from the TV and from Talk Radio shows.  Every time I jump in a cab the driver has Rush Limbaugh squawking away and I have to sit through that shit for an hour long ride to Anchorage for my latest MRI or CAT Scan.  I gotta start carrying my noise-cancelling Bose Headphones.



About nobody gets their newz at the Barber Shop or Bar anymore, but go back to the days before Radio & TV, this is where people got together to discuss the newz of the day.  I think people were a little more politically savvy back then, although that is just a feeling, no numbers to back that up.



 






This is an EXTREMELY common topic on r/collapse, with quite vehement opinions exressed quite often when the topic comes up.  There is a large cohort of people who think NOBODY should have kids, it's "wrong to bring children into a World in Collapse".  Why bring a new life into the world just to condemn it to a life of pain & suffering?  Also, the clear problems we have with Population Overshoot say we gotta reduce the total population of Homo Saps if we expect the planet to remain Habitable and ourselves not to go Extinct in the Near Term.  However, how is the population of Homo Saps not go Extinct unless SOMEBODY has children?



Here is where the plurality of respondents believe your financial means should determine whether you can have children or not.  That is essentially the viewpoint of the Eugenics believers of the early 20th Century, followers of Margaret Sanger who felt poor people should be Sterilized.  This of course was taken up by the Nazi Party and Adolf Hitller in Germany as well.  Why should reproduction be only for the rich?  How many very successful people came from poverty, raised on rural farms to bootstrap themselves up to wealth and success?  Should their parents not have been allowed to breed them?






Roughly half of the Kollapsniks are Married, but if you add in those who have a Life Partner or many Sexual Partners to this, that is the clear majority.  If you parse out this data by age group though, you will see that this also represents the older demographic.  Younger Kollapsniks are not so often coupled up.  Many reasons for this, often discussed in the Sociological trends discussions Inside the Diner.






Similar to the Marriage question, it is mostly older Kollapsniks who have children.  The number with replacement level or below is the majority, which does match with statistics showing that  Industrialized Nations are shrinking in self-procreated population (although immigration still makes up for that deficit in many if not most of those countries).  You could parse this one out by Income distribution, but I haven't done that as of yet.  I suspect the people who have larger numbers of children also have larger incomes, but that might not be true.






I was surprised that roughly 1/4 of Kollapsniks consider themselves "Optimistic" about the future, considering all the incoming evidence that things will just be going from Bad to Worse over time here.  This attitude is what I labelled as "Doom Lite" a few years back, and IMHO it's the result of Normalcy Bias.  We've always bounced back from crashes before, right?  We came back from the Great Depression bigger and stronger than ever!  After Rome Collapsed it took a few hundred years of Dark Ages, but we got the Reformation and Scientific Revolution!  I personally think "this time is different".  I don't think we're going to rebound, at least not in the forseeable future anyhow.  Perhaps some Plateaus and Dead Cat Bounces along the way down, but this is basically one long downhill slide we are on now.  Apologies to John Michael Greer, but it's not "slow & catabolic".  It's moving along quite rapidly now, and getting faster all the time. So I dropped myself in the "Pessimist" category.



The Nihilist category is a whole other ballgame, and while still relatively small it grows all the time and is quite vocal on Collapse websites as well.  This cohort of people is absolutely mired in Hopelessness and in many cases actually HOPES for the Extinction of Homo Saps, the sooner the better.  Don't bother arguing with these folks, it's a complete waste of time.






Here is a result I REALLY did not expect, and it took me some time looking at the data to figure out why the Diner came out #1 on the Hit Parade of Collapse Websites.  The reason is the algorithm the software uses to determine rankings.  It's not just how many Doomers rank you first, it's how many 2nds, 3rds etc you get from them.  Really low rankings from someone bring your totals down.  So many of these websites cancel each other out, Doomers who read The Burning Platform don't read r/collapse, and vica-versa.  The Diner gets high rankings from its own readership, and middle level rankings from everyone else.  In the totals, it comes out on top! 🙂



DOOMSTEAD DINER.  #1 FOR DOOM ON THE NET!






Unsurprisingly since BY FAR r/collapse has the widest circulation, they turned in the most submissions.  Of course, I do participate there myself and plugged the living shit out of the survey over there, which didn't hurt either.  lol.  TBP was in 2nd for a while, but the cohort of Acaademics from Cassandra's Legacy ended up trouncing them when Ugo put up the survey on his blog also.  The Diner rolled in in 4th place, out of the money. lol.  Significantly, without being listed in the main choices, Steve Ludlum's Blog of Economic Undertow came in 5th with 16 write-in ballots.






This split actually has moved up some, now with 14% of Internet Kollapsniks registering their gender as Female.  Either way though this matches earlier surveys we have done where the number always comes in between 10-15%, regardless of the Collapse Website you look at.  Why this is so isn't certain, and I asked this question in an earlier article on this topic.  It's not like wimmen are scarce on the net overall, you find them all over the place on the Cooking websites and the Homesteading sites as well with Gardening tips and so forth.  They seem to avoid the real heavy duty Doomer websites though.






Another very colorful Doughnut chart here, with Kollapsniks quite widely distributed around the FSoA, and throughout the rest of the World as well.  15% of responses came from non-FSoA citizens living elsewhere in the world.  Some of the other countries and regions represented are:







 




























































Australasia

Australia

Belgium

Canada

Central America

Egypt

EU

France

Germany

Italy

United Kingdom

New Zealand

Oceania

Spain

Sweden

Turkey

Mongolia


Some folks here identified themselves as coming from a given region such as Oceania rather than a specific country.  Particularly true of people living in the EU.  Regardless, it was a fairly wide distribution from around the Globe.



 






Like the Gender issue, I wrote previously about the Religion issue, specifically how few Muslims particpated in the survey given there are over 1B followers of Islam on the planet.  Many of course do not have internet access as their countries get Bombed Back to the Stone Age by the FSoA.  However, many have migrated over the years to the FSoA and Europe, so you would figure a few more would show up.  Their numbers still hover around 1% though, and are actually below Pantheists, Panentheists and Unitarian-Universalists, all spectacularly tiny religions.



Far as Kollapsniks go, the majority identify themselves as either Atheist or none, as in no religion at all.  I find it hard to imagine how anyone can have no belief system at all, everybody believes something.  Even if you believe you can't believe anything, you believe something. lol.  Christians are the other really large category, no surprise there since Christianity is the major religion of Western Industrialized nations, and they did a pretty good job of converting a lot of Chinese to this religion too.  However, nobody from China listed themselves as from there in the locations question.






This is one of the more astounding results from the survey, since it is so far above the level of education in the population at large. 3/4ths of Kollapsniks have a Bachelors Degree or higher, with 13% at the Doctoral Level. In the general population, less than 1/3rd of people have a Bachelor's Degree, and less than 2% Doctoral level.  Generally speaking, Kollapsniks are very well educated people.  An interesting data parsing here would be to see if attitudes about energy or extinction vary significantly by education level?  I haven't done that depth of analysis yet though so I can't tell you.  It's rather time consuming work, and I'm not sure I'll ever get to it.  Just getting out the basic data is taking me a month of time here.  If anybody else wants to parse the numbers, CONTACT me on the Diner and we can discuss it.






Another fairly colorful chart, since Kollapsniks seem to be quite well distributed across the economic spectrum, with the majority between $20,000-$200,000, the working poor to the high Upper Middle Class in the FSoA. The Survey did pull in 3  1%ers  earning between $500,000-$1,000,000 and 2  0.1%ers with an income >$1,000,000.  Who are these folks?  How about making a TAX DEDUCTABLE Donation to the Sustaining Universal Needs Foundation (a 501c3 nonprofit Charitable Organization) to help us expand our work educating people about Collapse and building Sustainable Communities?  CONTACT me on the Diner if you can help us financially.






Somewhat surprisingly to me ZERO respondents to the survey identified themselves as Homeless.  It's surprising because I know there are several Redditors on r/collapse living and working in some of the more expensive cties like Seattle and San Francisco living in their Stealth Vans.  So these folks either didn't respond to the survey or they don't consider themselves Homeless, their Vans are their homes.  I'm not surprised there are no respondents from people who are so far down now already they are sleeping rough.  They don't generally spend much time on the internet and aren't real concerned with the greater scope of Collapse.  They have their own personal collapse to deal with.






It was brought up Inside the Diner that how much money you have around to pay your monthly bills isn't really a great measure of Net Worth, and that is somewhat true.  However, in order to have months or years of cash around or assets to liquidate, your net worth has to be pretty good, and/or your expenses very low.  I had to manage for 7 months with no income whatsoever when I first became a Cripple.  A combination of low monthly expenses, no debt and a good sized nest egg I put together over the years enabled me to do this.  Here in the FSoA, 60% of people don't even have 1 month of savings to handle emergencies or loss of income.  Kollapsniks do substantially better than this typical percentage, both because they have higher incomes in general than average and because, well they are Preppers & Doomers expecting things to crash any day now. lol.  Part of Prepping Up for Collapse is having a Stash of Cash for SHTF Day and getting out of debt.  Trimming your expenses to the bone and living a low consumption lifestyle also are important aspects of being ready for Collapse to arrive at your doorstep, which it will at some point.  Collapse is…



…Coming Soon to a Neighborhood Near You.



Help Build the Diner and Save As Many As You Can.



Post on Bulletin Boards at School, Work & Church.  Download the pdf for best Print Quality.  Use Glossy Photo Paper for best color rendition and presentation.






 



 



DD-World-Turmoil



 


Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: RE on January 13, 2019, 09:34:28 AM
Doomsday Diner.....I love it. ROTFLMAO!!!! I'm stealing that.

Congrats though. Well done.

What? No guess on what I am DOING to prove you WRONG once again?  ;D

RE
Title: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey: Into the Valley of Death Rode the 600...
Post by: RE on January 14, 2019, 12:26:27 AM
“Forward, the Light Brigade!”
Was there a man dismayed?
Not though the soldier knew
   Someone had blundered.
   Theirs not to make reply,
   Theirs not to reason why,
   Theirs but to do and die.
   Into the valley of Death
   Rode the six hundred.


(https://www.history.com/.image/t_share/MTU3ODc4NjAzNzk0NDkxMTAz/hith-charge-of-the-light-brigade-2.png)

Survey has crossed the 600 Respondent Threshhold.  I think I fished up nearly every Doomer on the Net!  :o It's like fishing for Bluefin Tuna.  You never know when the BIG ONE will BITE.  I hooked the Mother of all Doomer Fishes this time.  :icon_sunny:

See you on the Other Side.

http://www.youtube.com/v/-9yYJ6ZAYns

RE
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: K-Dog on January 14, 2019, 01:04:27 AM
There is no other side.
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: Surly1 on January 14, 2019, 03:59:19 AM
Quote from: RE
I hooked the Mother of all Doomer Fishes this time.

Dafuq?
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: RE on January 14, 2019, 04:51:36 AM
There is no other side.

Yes there is.

RE
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: RE on January 14, 2019, 07:49:50 AM
Quote from: RE
I hooked the Mother of all Doomer Fishes this time.

Dafuq?

You don't get it?  BY FAR, this is the best Advertizing Gimmick I have come up with to date.  :icon_sunny:  Check Out the User Spike from yesterday!  :o

Stats DD 1 13 2018
Stats DD 1 13 2018

RE
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: cernunnos5 on January 14, 2019, 07:54:46 AM
While you are here RE, I just wanted to ask if you got MrsC5s note. I hope it made it , as she was unfamiliar with this platform
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: RE on January 14, 2019, 08:02:01 AM
While you are here RE, I just wanted to ask if you got MrsC5s note. I hope it made it , as she was unfamiliar with this platform

I got the note in PM and responded.  I haven't heard from her via email, which she says she prefers.

RE
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: Surly1 on January 14, 2019, 08:06:42 AM
Quote from: RE
I hooked the Mother of all Doomer Fishes this time.

Dafuq?

You don't get it?  BY FAR, this is the best Advertizing Gimmick I have come up with to date.  :icon_sunny:  Check Out the User Spike from yesterday!  :o

Stats DD 1 13 2018
Stats DD 1 13 2018

RE

Oh, I thought you were talking about an individual who had responded.
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: cernunnos5 on January 14, 2019, 09:02:17 AM
While you are here RE, I just wanted to ask if you got MrsC5s note. I hope it made it , as she was unfamiliar with this platform

I got the note in PM and responded.  I haven't heard from her via email, which she says she prefers.

RE
The note didnt make it to her for some reason
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: RE on January 14, 2019, 09:05:38 AM
While you are here RE, I just wanted to ask if you got MrsC5s note. I hope it made it , as she was unfamiliar with this platform

I got the note in PM and responded.  I haven't heard from her via email, which she says she prefers.

RE
The note didnt make it to her for some reason

It is in my sent file.  Have her send me an email.

RE
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: cernunnos5 on January 14, 2019, 09:15:34 AM
While you are here RE, I just wanted to ask if you got MrsC5s note. I hope it made it , as she was unfamiliar with this platform

I got the note in PM and responded.  I haven't heard from her via email, which she says she prefers.

RE
The note didnt make it to her for some reason

It is in my sent file.  Have her send me an email.

RE
I cant remember if I have it so send your email directly to me in private message and I will get it to her directly
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: RE on January 14, 2019, 09:19:31 AM
While you are here RE, I just wanted to ask if you got MrsC5s note. I hope it made it , as she was unfamiliar with this platform

I got the note in PM and responded.  I haven't heard from her via email, which she says she prefers.

RE
The note didnt make it to her for some reason

It is in my sent file.  Have her send me an email.

RE
I cant remember if I have it so send your email directly to me in private message and I will get it to her directly

Done.

RE
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: cernunnos5 on January 14, 2019, 09:33:39 AM
While you are here RE, I just wanted to ask if you got MrsC5s note. I hope it made it , as she was unfamiliar with this platform

I got the note in PM and responded.  I haven't heard from her via email, which she says she prefers.

RE
The note didnt make it to her for some reason

It is in my sent file.  Have her send me an email.

RE
I cant remember if I have it so send your email directly to me in private message and I will get it to her directly

Done.

RE
Done and done. 5 by 5.  That make us C5x5......or C25. Just cracked that first beer
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: RE on January 14, 2019, 10:48:47 AM
While you are here RE, I just wanted to ask if you got MrsC5s note. I hope it made it , as she was unfamiliar with this platform

I got the note in PM and responded.  I haven't heard from her via email, which she says she prefers.

RE
The note didnt make it to her for some reason

It is in my sent file.  Have her send me an email.

RE
I cant remember if I have it so send your email directly to me in private message and I will get it to her directly

Done.

RE
Done and done. 5 by 5.  That make us C5x5......or C25. Just cracked that first beer

Dr. C5 contacted me via email.  I responded.

RE
Title: Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
Post by: RE on January 14, 2019, 09:03:26 PM
Survey now UP on Global Economic Intersection!  :icon_sunny:

http://econintersect.com/pages/opinion/opinion.php?post=201901142144 (http://econintersect.com/pages/opinion/opinion.php?post=201901142144)

RE
Title: 2019 Collapse Survey: The 500 - Politics & Economics
Post by: RE on January 27, 2019, 04:47:39 AM


youtube-Logo-4gc2reddit-logoOff the keyboard of RE



Follow us on Twitter @doomstead666

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Published on The Doomstead Diner January 27, 2019






Discuss this article at the Survey Table inside the Diner



 










Notes from RE:



1- This installment of the survey uses the latest set of charts & graphs with 541 Respondents.  This is the set that respondents who left their email addys will receive in pdf document form around the end of January.  If you are interested in doing statistical aanlysis on this data and cross-correlating some of the questions, like breaking down the responses by age or income level or education level, contact me here on the Diner via the Contact Page.



2- Of the 3 parts to this series, this is the one which led some folks to consider it too Americentric, because of the questions on the Amerikan Political Clown Show.  However, even here this only makes up a few of the questions and most of them are generally applicable anywhere in the world.









No parts of this study may be used on commercial websites that use Advertising or sell Merchandise such as the Author's books, or which have Paywalls without the expressed consent of the Doomstead Diner and the Sustaining Universal Needs Foundation.  None of the charts and graphs may be altered in any way or the copyright and logos removed from those charts.


The Survey remains OPEN at this time.  Responses keep dribbling in and I don't want to leave anyone out of the final Tally.



Now, on to the charts from the survey.  For today, we look at the Political & Economic Questions.  I'll make a few brief comments beneath each chart.   For further analysis and discussion, visit the Survey Table inside the Diner.




 



Survey still OPEN



Survey now @ 636 Submissions






As you can readily see, if the whole country was composed of Kollapsniks, Trumpovetsky never would have been elected, and we wouldn't be in the pickle we are in now.   Some other kind of pickle likely, but not such a BIG PICKLE🥒 so fast!  Since they are better educated than average, most Kollapsniks easily saw through the lies that El Trumpo was pitching out on the campaign trail, so blatant and obvious it's hard to imagine how almost 50% of the population of the FSoA voted for him (he didn't win the popular vote).  However, if you ever sat in a cab and listened to Rush Limbaugh rant over the airwaves, you might have some clue as to how this occured.






Also obvious, the people who didn't vote for him in 2016 aren't going to vote for him in 2020, assuming the Repugnants are stupid enough to nominate him again, which they probably are.  The question here on this go-round is how many of those 14% "It Depends who runas against him" folks will find someone else to vote for this time around?  That of course depends on who the Demodopes finally nominate, which remains a big question mark.  Also who a 3rd Party Libertarian candidate might be.  If the Libertarians got Ron Paul to run on their ticket, this would totally suck the wind out of Donalditry's sails.  That however is an unlikely scenario at the moment.






Amongst Kollapsniks, Joe Biden seems the most likely to get the nomination as of now.  He has the Veep & Senate credentials and long years of political hacking under his belt.  However, he's also pretty old and likely doesn't hold much appeal for the new wave of younger voters becoming politically energized by their ever downward spiralling economic opportunities and upward spiralling college costs and student loans.  Coming in at #2 on the Hit Parade here is Beto O'Rourke, fresh of a narrow loss to Ted Cruz in the heavily Repugnant state of Texas.  Beto demonstrated amazing fundraising ability for that campaign, shattering all records.  He's got charisma and youthful vitality, and has been favorably compared to the heros of the Demodope Party even after 50 years, John & Robert Kennedy.  However, he is thin on Goobermint experience with only a couple of terms as a CONgress Critter from El Paso under his belt.  Liz Warren shows in 3rd Place in this survey, and will definitely capture the Wimmen's Vote in this horse race if she gets the nomination.  However, many people view her as "too liberal" to draw any support away from Trumpovetsky.  In 4th and out of the money so far is Bernie Sanders, who really should have had the nomination in 2016 if it hadn't been stolen by Killary Klinton.  He's got a big following still and also is a proven fundraiser.  Like Joe Biden though, he is getting long in the tooth, although he still seems to have a lot of energy for political fighting.






Joe Biden comes in again 1st for the one who would make the best POTUS if elected, with Liz Warren in 2nd this time and Bernie Sanders 3rd.  All 3 have Senatorial experience, which probably is why they get the nod     in this question.  Beto-O'Rourke comes in tied for 3rd with Bernie in a very tight race there.  One does have to remember in all of this though that so far Liz Warren is the only one who is a definite candidate, and also that a Dark Horse might emerge in the long run to the White House.






I put up this chart in the prior article on Demographics, but I thought it a good idea to repeat it here for reference purposes against the other political questions.  The same things remain true, Kollapsniks are migrating away from the traditional Repugnant & Demodope Parties and now identify themselves with other political self-definitions, generall more polarized and further to the Left or Right.  There are also an ever growing number of Fascists, Communists and Anarchist in the mix as the population becomes increasingly radicalized.






On this topic, the Economic issues come out in top place, and I agree with that.  Economic Collapse is the proximal problem faced everywhere these days and is what is driving all the political instability and increasing bellicosity pushing toward War to solve the problems, which it won't of course.  The Migration "crises" in the FSoA is a manufactured crisis by Trumpty-Dumpty to satisfy his legion of Deplorables who he promised a REALLY BIG WALL to, which he ain't gonna get.  They'll be lucky to appropriate enough money to maintain their current fencing around the major foot traffic migration border towns in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California.  El Trumpo needs this distraction though, so he keeps pumping it.



Out of the money in 4th Place is the ongoing Climate Crisis, which you wouldn't know if all you read is r/collapse where for those Doomers it's the #1 Problem because we're all gonna DIE when the Oceans drown all the coastal cities and all the farmland dries up to.  Both are problems of course, but neither one likely to happen next year, so it doesn't present a political crisis at the moment.






This statistic changed a lot over the first 300 or so submissons, edending on which website was dropping on the most submissions.  It got as high as 70% feeling the Repugnants would retain control over the Senate while The Burning Platform was making most of its submissions, but whittled down to around 50%, where it has been hovering since around the 450 mark in responses.  In fact at this point none of the percentages change very much no matter how many more people respond, which is why it's a significant statistical sample.



This battle is almost more interesting than the POTUS battle and very difficult to make a prediction on.  Lots of gerrymanderingdone by the Repugnants over the years making it very difficult for Demodopes to win in many states.  Also interesting is the scenario where Trumpofsky got reelected but both House of CONgress were in Demodope hands.  I would expect an impeachment to follow that shortly.






I also went over this one in the Demographic overview, but since it's a Political question I felt it belongs here also for reference.  Unsurprisingly, Kollapsniks who frequent the web get most of their information from there, either the Alternative Newz sites & Blogs or the MSM which is now mainly online rather than in Newzpaper format.  Does anyone have a subscription to a Daily Newzpaper anymore?  There's another job lost to the internet, Paperboys!



This also explains the vast gulf in attitudes between Kollapsniks and the hoi polloi.  If you surveyed there, I am sure TV and Talk Radio would be in the top spots.  Like computers, people follow the rule of "Garbage in, Garbage out" also.  Not that all internet newz sources are all that great either, and readers to tend to gravitate toward sites that provide them with Confirmation Bias, extending on both sides of the Political Spectrum to quite extreme views.  Although it seems to me anecdotally that there are more  Extreme Right Wing websites than Left Wing ones.  I don't have any numbers to back up that impression though.



9 – Write-In Candidates for POTUS







 




























































































































































Bernie Sanders

greg hunter

Lewis black

Shaquille O'Neal

Ajamu Baraka

Henry Rollins

Mark Warner

Stacy Abrams

Al Gore

Jake Tapper

Martin armstrong

Stephanie Kelton

Alexandria Ocasio Cortez

James Hansen

Michael Mann

Stephen Colbert

Amy Kobucher

James Mattis

Michael Parenti

Stephen King

Andrew Bacevich

Jeff Flake

Michelle Obama

Steve Ludlum

Andrew Yang

Jeff Merkeley

Mike Enoch

Steven Pinker

Angelina Jolie

Jerry Brown

Mitt Romney

David Stockman

Angelo D'Angelo

Jesse Ventura

Robert Mueller

Ted Cruz

Ann Coulter

Jill Stein

neil degrass tyson

Ted Lieu

Arnold Schwarzenegger

Jim Carrey

Nikki Haley

Tulsi Gabbard

Chris Hedges

Jim Jordan

noam chomsky

Tom Cotton

Chuck Schumer

Jim Quinn

Mike Pence

Tom Fitton

Colin Powell

John Darnielle

Penn Jillette

Tom Hanks

Cornel West

John Michael Greer

Vladimir Putin

Tom Kratman

David Duke

Jon Huntsman, Jr.

Ralph Nader

Tom Steyer

Derrick Jensen

Jordan Peterson

Rand Paul

Tucker Carlson

Dr. James Hansen

judge napolitano

Richard Heinberg

Warren Buffett

Dwayne johnson

Katherine Hayhoe

Ron Paul

Yves Smith

Elon Musk

Kayne West

Rosa Luxenberg

 

Gail Tverberg

Kim Kardashian

Russell Brand

 

Garrett Hardin

Kristen Gillibrand

Paul Ryan

 

Gerald Celente

Larry Hogan

Sam Carana

 

glenn beck

Lawrence Kotlicoff

Scott Walker

 


 



As you can see, there's quite a selection of write in candidates here.  Eliminated from the list are Dead People, Cartoon Characters, Selfies, Nobodies & I Don't Knows.  Also nominations for people who are already on the list of choices, and Trumpovtsky who is likely to be on the Reugnant ticket.  This question was for the Demodopes ticket.  Also some non-US citizens like Russel Brand were written in, but they couldn't be elected even if there were enough write-ins for them.  I left them in the list anyhow though.






A Dead Heat (pun intended) here in this race, and it kind of depends on how you look at the question.  In the long run it doesn't matter since Industrial Civilization will Collapse regardless who is in office.  It does matter though in the more near term,because one Party is going to make sure the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer as Collapse progresses, and the other party might distribute out the rapidly shrinking pie of planetary wealth a little more evenly.  I'm sure you can figure out which party is which here on that score.



In any event, the political setup here has a limited lifespan, once the monetary system collapses it is destined for the scrap heap, and what will come after it is a Known Unkown.






Similar to the question of whether it makes a difference if you vote in a Demodope or a Repugnant to office, this depends on how you interpret the question.  Voting isn't going to stop Collapse, but then neither will Revolution.  However, in either of those cases if you can make some change to the status quo, the downhill slope could take different routes.  One might go on the Downhill, straight down the hill full blass with no Gates, the other might take a Slalom back and forth and slow down the descent some.  Another Known Unknown is what is the best choice to take here.






Most Kollapsniks don't see too much difference between Demodopes and Repugnants, but 2/3rds of them would participate in Street Demonstrations for Political Change of some kind.  Street Demonstrations amount to "Revolution Lite", people will come out in favor of this without necessarily advocating for Revolution.  However, since the effectiveness of Street Demonstrations these days is questionable, it's really just a precursor to Revolution as the demonstrators don't get the changes they are looking for from this type of political action.  In the words of JFK:



Image result for jfk those who make peaceful






Unsurprisingly, the vast majority of Kollapsniks would prefer Revolution to a continuance of BAU.  However, I'm not sure how many of them think through what the consequences will be and the amount of Death that will come with it, quite rapidly.  I also suspect this distribution varies a LOT by the Socioeconomic position of the respondent, whether they are low income and struggling to survive or high income and still living the fairly cushy lifestyle that goes with that.  It probably also is dependent on the position and level of education of the respondent, I suspect the Drs have a different distribution than the HS Grads.  However, I haven't yet parsed the data to verify that.






This is a gratifying result, considering the Hopelessness pitch that Dr. McStinksion dishes out from Nature Bats Last.  If it's all hopeless, why bother with any Political Action?  Just Party like it's 1999 until you are one of the Dead People!  Don't bother to Prep Up, that's a Waste of Time too!  In fact, don't bother to get out of bed, that's another waste of time.



Extinction isn't a guarantee, nobody has a Crystal Ball on this.  A population Knockdown is likely, but even that isn't guaranteed, and you can't peg an absolute timeline to that either.  Meanwhile, you ned to figure out what to do with yourself and how to stay alive just as long as you can.  That is of course as long as you prefer the alternative of living to dying.






This again is a result I agree with, Economic Collapse is going to preceed a complete Climate Collapse by quite some time, and wreak much more havoc in the near term when it hits in full force.  Think of it like a Global Tsunami, it will wash over every aspect of life and the resultant Death Toll will be in the Millions if not Billions.  We're going to need to get these problems resolved before it even becomes possible to address the Climate Collapse issues.  Whether that can be done on any kind of large scale is an open question, though IMHO one with a likely negative answer.



You can however make changes to your own life that can help you survive as the climate collapse progresses.  You location is a primary one, if you live right on the coast in Hurricane Alley, this is not a good choice of places to live.  Building in resilience is also a good choice here, living rurally off-grid and growing at least some of your own food better than sticking to BAU in the Big Shities to make a big paycheck.  Most important of all is to develop COMMUNITY, going it alone is a sure ticket to the Great Beyond when TSHTF.



 



Next week, I'll present the many write-in answers from survey respondents on the problems they see as important.  Untiil then, have another good wee as we observe the Collapse of Industrial Civilization here on the Doomstead Diner.


Title: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey now UP on GEI!
Post by: RE on January 31, 2019, 01:28:32 AM
Political & Economic article now UP on GEI!

http://econintersect.com/pages/opinion/opinion.php?post=201901302243 (http://econintersect.com/pages/opinion/opinion.php?post=201901302243)

RE
Title: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey: The Drive for 666
Post by: RE on February 10, 2019, 11:29:39 AM
I am trying to get to 666 Respondents before I close the Survey.  Currently @ 648, only 18 to go!

Get your family members and friends to fill it out!  Let's make it to 666!

RE
Title: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey: The Drive for 666 has Stalled
Post by: RE on February 14, 2019, 12:00:25 PM
We have been stuck at 649 respondents for a couple of days.  Only 17 short of the Magic 666!

Don't you guys have any friends or family members you can get to take the Survey?  Come on Diners, Step Up to the Plate here!

RE