Doomstead Diner Newz Channels => Marathon Man Newz => Topic started by: Eddie on December 30, 2018, 05:38:01 PM

Title: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: Eddie on December 30, 2018, 05:38:01 PM
Niall Ferguson's book, The Ascent of Money, is where I learned a good part of what I know about the history of money. It's
 a damn fine book. I read it many years ago now. He seems to have fallen in with Ashvin's IDW guys. I challenge anyone to listen to him talk about his experiences. He is describing exactly what I try to get at in my critiques of your socialist POV.

http://www.youtube.com/v/MdeFJ4WCqhk&fs=1
Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: K-Dog on December 30, 2018, 06:35:42 PM
Niall Ferguson's book, The Ascent of Money, is where I learned a good part of what I know about the history of money. It's
 a damn fine book. I read it many years ago now. He seems to have fallen in with Ashvin's IDW guys. I challenge anyone to listen to him talk about his experiences. He is describing exactly what I try to get at in my critiques of your socialist POV.

http://www.youtube.com/v/MdeFJ4WCqhk&fs=1

He sees a left wing conspiracy which does not exist.  A poster child for confirmation bias and oooooohhhh he's written 15 books (cuz thats his job) and he has mentioned it 25 times.  Dude exudes elitism.  I'm frankly getting sick of hearing about our universities being taken over by faux leftist bogymen who communicate apparently by telepathy.

I agree with what Niall says about dignified argument vs attack on reputation and most of what he says seems sound enough when he spouts ideals but at heart he's manipulative and angry.  Two bucks and a cup of coffee or just another asshole pulling emotional strings.  Niall is pullin the strings and his anger is not a good anger.  He's probably not aware he's knotted and forged his ideas of the left with his knowledge of the Nazi past to an emotional weapon.  That's sort of interesting like an animal in a zoo.  He's a clown looking for a carnival and like a clown facts don't matter in his performance.

Once again I'm insulted.  Once again laudable ideas of socialism and dignified relations between men are confused with people having gender issues and people who are just plain confused.  Could we please get back to grape pickers getting a fair shake and a reasonable life for everybody!

The Left Left Left Left Left Left.   The entertainment value of hate is well understood now and the 'IDW' is not innocent of this knowledge.  They revel in their hate of their SJWs.  Not for a second are they innocent.  If Dave Rubin should have a portrait of Geraldo Rivera in his bedroom I'd not be surprised.  He's learned from the legacy well and Niall Ferguson as a guest is Rubin's clickbait.

Ferguson has described his relationship with the left: "No, they love being provoked by me!

There, from his own mouth.  Just another fry from the basket and I'll take a cup of coffee over a British elitist bastard any day of the week.  I've been patient waiting to hear anything of substance.  I'm still waiting.

Now I'm down to two minutes left.  Thank god.  He's playing the fiddle.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/OrLSbDbEJno/hqdefault.jpg)

Victim in a tailored suit.  Throw a chair baby.
Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: RE on December 30, 2018, 07:53:42 PM
He sees a left wing conspiracy which does not exist.  A poster child for confirmation bias and oooooohhhh he's written 15 books (cuz thats his job) and he has mentioned it 25 times.  Dude exudes elitism.  I'm frankly getting sick of hearing about our universities being taken over by faux leftist bogymen who communicate apparently by telepathy.

Confirmation Bias is what this is, much like with Jordan Petersen.  These guys spout off academic type arguments that Libertarian types eat up like ice cream on a hot summer day in the Oz Outback.  I can only sit through about 5 minutes of this shit before I need to head to the toilet and heave the Technicolor Yawn.

http://www.youtube.com/v/_SKdN1xQBjk

RE
Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: Eddie on December 30, 2018, 08:40:21 PM
Niall Ferguson's book, The Ascent of Money, is where I learned a good part of what I know about the history of money. It's
 a damn fine book. I read it many years ago now. He seems to have fallen in with Ashvin's IDW guys. I challenge anyone to listen to him talk about his experiences. He is describing exactly what I try to get at in my critiques of your socialist POV.

http://www.youtube.com/v/MdeFJ4WCqhk&fs=1

He sees a left wing conspiracy which does not exist.  A poster child for confirmation bias and oooooohhhh he's written 15 books (cuz thats his job) and he has mentioned it 25 times.  Dude exudes elitism.  I'm frankly getting sick of hearing about our universities being taken over by faux leftist bogymen who communicate apparently by telepathy.

I agree with what Niall says about dignified argument vs attack on reputation and most of what he says seems sound enough when he spouts ideals but at heart he's manipulative and angry.  Two bucks and a cup of coffee or just another asshole pulling emotional strings.  Niall is pullin the strings and his anger is not a good anger.  He's probably not aware he's knotted and forged his ideas of the left with his knowledge of the Nazi past to an emotional weapon.  That's sort of interesting like an animal in a zoo.  He's a clown looking for a carnival and like a clown facts don't matter in his performance.

Once again I'm insulted.  Once again laudable ideas of socialism and dignified relations between men are confused with people having gender issues and people who are just plain confused.  Could we please get back to grape pickers getting a fair shake and a reasonable life for everybody!

The Left Left Left Left Left Left.   The entertainment value of hate is well understood now and the 'IDW' is not innocent of this knowledge.  They revel in their hate of their SJWs.  Not for a second are they innocent.  If Dave Rubin should have a portrait of Geraldo Rivera in his bedroom I'd not be surprised.  He's learned from the legacy well and Niall Ferguson as a guest is Rubin's clickbait.

Ferguson has described his relationship with the left: "No, they love being provoked by me!

There, from his own mouth.  Just another fry from the basket and I'll take a cup of coffee over a British elitist bastard any day of the week.  I've been patient waiting to hear anything of substance.  I'm still waiting.

Now I'm down to two minutes left.  Thank god.  He's playing the fiddle.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/OrLSbDbEJno/hqdefault.jpg)

Victim in a tailored suit.  Throw a chair baby.

I think you are taking too much offense at his Oxford Don persona, frankly. It's real. He comes by it honestly.

I also disagree strongly with your criticism of the IDW, because I see that they are more than willing to have a rational discussion with their detractors, who unfortunately want to smear them using all kinds of dirty tricks and false accusations, especially by means of social media.

 In this very video, Ferguson makes a good point that if the IDW is a network, it needs to be an open network for all voices to be heard, and that they need to be open to the ideas of people who disagree.... that they might be wrong about some things, and so should always let all sides make their case.

I can assure you that is the last thing the liberal establishment wants,. The left wants to silence them and smear them with anything they can get to stick. There are a slew of articles trying to do just that, and I already objected when Surly started posting them here. Because they were just hit pieces. Not a shred of truth in any of them.

I challenged him and I challenge you to prove your points with facts, and not just tell me you don't like Niall Ferguson  because he's highly educated, an erudite scholar and maybe a bit  snooty. Angry? Did we listen tot the same video? What angry things did he say?

They argue their points rationally, and I don't see the hate that you say they are spreading. I do see plenty of very delusional thinking, and also plenty of angry mob behavior on the part of the SJW's and People With Special Rights. The IDW guys are responding, in a measured way, to being misrepresented.  They are thinkers, not a lynch mob.

They are questioning the accepted dogma of the liberal academic world, and the liberal political machine, which is a false narrative.

The kind of Cesar Chavez socialism you believe in is not what's coming, and you might live to find that out, to your chagrin, I'm afraid.




 
Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: RE on December 30, 2018, 09:35:51 PM
The left wants to silence them and smear them with anything they can get to stick.

There's a Left here somewhere? ???  :icon_scratch:  Can you point me to this organization that is running the mass media and smearing all the Libertarian Academics?

RE
Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: Eddie on December 30, 2018, 10:22:58 PM
The left wants to silence them and smear them with anything they can get to stick.

There's a Left here somewhere? ???  :icon_scratch:  Can you point me to this organization that is running the mass media and smearing all the Libertarian Academics?

RE

There are two lefts. One is not very left. That one is what I'd call the fake left...which is to say, Hillary Clinton and those like her.

The other left is the real leftist intellectual core that started as college students during Viet Nam, and who went on to become the next generation of college professors, who embraced Marxist thought as a reaction against the straight world they rebelled against when they were young. The Reagan years and what came after cemented them into what they are. They have not had real power as of yet, because the Clinton types got their votes but never paid attention to their real agenda.

The white working class, once the backbone of the real workers party, rejected the Hillary fakery and went Trump. The real left would have voted in Bernie, but he was screwed out of the nomination.

College campuses today are not like what they were when we went to college. It's a herd mentality, and social media has made it far worse.I'm not so much upset about people leaning left. But it's a kind of left that doesn't tolerate dissent, and it's a delusional left, full of identity politics and special rights and radical feminism is a strong part of it.

When they do take power, we could have something very like the Chinese Cultural Revolution.
Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: RE on December 31, 2018, 12:51:09 AM
The left wants to silence them and smear them with anything they can get to stick.

There's a Left here somewhere? ???  :icon_scratch:  Can you point me to this organization that is running the mass media and smearing all the Libertarian Academics?

RE

There are two lefts. One is not very left. That one is what I'd call the fake left...which is to say, Hillary Clinton and those like her.

The other left is the real leftist intellectual core that started as college students during Viet Nam, and who went on to become the next generation of college professors, who embraced Marxist thought as a reaction against the straight world they rebelled against when they were young. The Reagan years and what came after cemented them into what they are. They have not had real power as of yet, because the Clinton types got their votes but never paid attention to their real agenda.

The white working class, once the backbone of the real workers party, rejected the Hillary fakery and went Trump. The real left would have voted in Bernie, but he was screwed out of the nomination.

College campuses today are not like what they were when we went to college. It's a herd mentality, and social media has made it far worse.I'm not so much upset about people leaning left. But it's a kind of left that doesn't tolerate dissent, and it's a delusional left, full of identity politics and special rights and radical feminism is a strong part of it.

When they do take power, we could have something very like the Chinese Cultural Revolution.

I don't call either one of those "Left", at least not a left with any significant political power.  As you sort of acknowledge, the traditional Demodope Party isn't left at all, its only slightly to the right of the Repugnants.  The new wave of Demodope Socialists spearheaded by Bernie is more left than that, but still right of center.  They still believe in Capitalism for the most part.

Far as your favorite whipping boy, "Marxist Academics" are concerned, they have about ZERO political power.  None of them in CONgress far as I can tell.  None on the Supreme Court either.  They don't control the editorial pages of the NYT, WaPo, WSJ or Fox either.  But to you, there is some vast left wing conspiracy ongoing that is going to overthrow Capitalism.  Watson was equally deluded in this regard.   Total nonsense at the moment.

RE
Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: Eddie on December 31, 2018, 06:53:49 AM
The left wants to silence them and smear them with anything they can get to stick.

There's a Left here somewhere? ???  :icon_scratch:  Can you point me to this organization that is running the mass media and smearing all the Libertarian Academics?

RE

There are two lefts. One is not very left. That one is what I'd call the fake left...which is to say, Hillary Clinton and those like her.

The other left is the real leftist intellectual core that started as college students during Viet Nam, and who went on to become the next generation of college professors, who embraced Marxist thought as a reaction against the straight world they rebelled against when they were young. The Reagan years and what came after cemented them into what they are. They have not had real power as of yet, because the Clinton types got their votes but never paid attention to their real agenda.

The white working class, once the backbone of the real workers party, rejected the Hillary fakery and went Trump. The real left would have voted in Bernie, but he was screwed out of the nomination.

College campuses today are not like what they were when we went to college. It's a herd mentality, and social media has made it far worse.I'm not so much upset about people leaning left. But it's a kind of left that doesn't tolerate dissent, and it's a delusional left, full of identity politics and special rights and radical feminism is a strong part of it.

When they do take power, we could have something very like the Chinese Cultural Revolution.

I don't call either one of those "Left", at least not a left with any significant political power.  As you sort of acknowledge, the traditional Demodope Party isn't left at all, its only slightly to the right of the Repugnants.  The new wave of Demodope Socialists spearheaded by Bernie is more left than that, but still right of center.  They still believe in Capitalism for the most part.

Far as your favorite whipping boy, "Marxist Academics" are concerned, they have about ZERO political power.  None of them in CONgress far as I can tell.  None on the Supreme Court either.  They don't control the editorial pages of the NYT, WaPo, WSJ or Fox either.  But to you, there is some vast left wing conspiracy ongoing that is going to overthrow Capitalism.  Watson was equally deluded in this regard.   Total nonsense at the moment.

RE

What leftist academics have and have had is enormous influence on the next generation's political toilet training. Their time of ascendency is coming, if BAU persists long enough.  Ferguson makes a pretty good case for how it will go down. He is a great historian, btw, who has an informed perspective on the rise and fall of empires. Sorry you guys can only see him through the lenses of your own anti-establishment glasses and from (what I see) as a naive point of view.  What were gonna get is going to look more like the Red Guard than potlatch societies,
Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: RE on December 31, 2018, 07:14:27 AM
What leftist academics have and have had is enormous influence on the next generation's political toilet training. Their time of ascendency is coming, if BAU persists long enough.  Ferguson makes a pretty good case for how it will go down. He is a great historian, btw, who has an informed perspective on the rise and fall of empires. Sorry you guys can only see him through the lenses of your own anti-establishment glasses and from (what I see) as a naive point of view.  What were gonna get is going to look more like the Red Guard than potlatch societies,
There's the Pot calling the Kettle Black.  ::)

I never said we would see Potlach societies in the spin down, you are putting up strawmen and making shit up again, putting words in my mouth.  Shame on you.

It's bound to be quite brutal and many rich people will be mercilessly slaughtered.  The blood of the rich will fill swimming pools.

Still better than having blood sucking vampires like Jamie Dimon and Lloyd Blankfein in charge though.

RE
Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: K-Dog on December 31, 2018, 07:48:31 AM
The left wants to silence them and smear them with anything they can get to stick.

There's a Left here somewhere? ???  :icon_scratch:  Can you point me to this organization that is running the mass media and smearing all the Libertarian Academics?

RE

There are two lefts. One is not very left. That one is what I'd call the fake left...which is to say, Hillary Clinton and those like her.

The other left is the real leftist intellectual core that started as college students during Viet Nam, and who went on to become the next generation of college professors, who embraced Marxist thought as a reaction against the straight world they rebelled against when they were young. The Reagan years and what came after cemented them into what they are. They have not had real power as of yet, because the Clinton types got their votes but never paid attention to their real agenda.

The white working class, once the backbone of the real workers party, rejected the Hillary fakery and went Trump. The real left would have voted in Bernie, but he was screwed out of the nomination.

College campuses today are not like what they were when we went to college. It's a herd mentality, and social media has made it far worse.I'm not so much upset about people leaning left. But it's a kind of left that doesn't tolerate dissent, and it's a delusional left, full of identity politics and special rights and radical feminism is a strong part of it.

When they do take power, we could have something very like the Chinese Cultural Revolution.

I don't call either one of those "Left", at least not a left with any significant political power.  As you sort of acknowledge, the traditional Demodope Party isn't left at all, its only slightly to the right of the Repugnants.  The new wave of Demodope Socialists spearheaded by Bernie is more left than that, but still right of center.  They still believe in Capitalism for the most part.

Far as your favorite whipping boy, "Marxist Academics" are concerned, they have about ZERO political power.  None of them in CONgress far as I can tell.  None on the Supreme Court either.  They don't control the editorial pages of the NYT, WaPo, WSJ or Fox either.  But to you, there is some vast left wing conspiracy ongoing that is going to overthrow Capitalism.  Watson was equally deluded in this regard.   Total nonsense at the moment.

RE

You say two lefts but the Democratic party is in no way left.  The Dems want a different kind of rich than the Reps do but they still want rich and poor and can't imagine equity in any reasonable way.  So throwing away your ridiculous left who would happily start a war in the Ukraine in a heartbeat leaves only one left but I still see two.

One left is historical and not represented by anyone in the country currently except RE and I.  That would be the left which would put 'workers' in charge after overthrowing an aristocracy and hang bankers.  The imaginary left of Rubin Ferguson and Peterson is a left with no name, no members, and certainly no members who work.  Occasionally the IDW argues with someone who they identify as part of some left wing conspiracy but so what.  I can claim unicorns exist and you can't prove me wrong too.

Somebody says the college campuses are being taken over by SJWs and everybody believes it.  Before they even see one.  Has any Diner ever seen an SJW in the flesh?  Then name one.  You can't.  Basically the 'left' is anyone the arrogant IDW disagrees with and does not actually exist.  Do they have an SJW newsletter?  No they do not.

If anybody does post a real SJW please post their bio too so we know who they are because nobody living in their parents basement is going to be taking over the country.  That would require getting up in the morning and that is not going to happen.

Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: RE on December 31, 2018, 08:02:51 AM
One left is historical and not represented by anyone in the country currently except RE and I.

I think we can include Surly in the club.  :icon_sunny:

RE
Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: K-Dog on December 31, 2018, 08:39:33 AM
One left is historical and not represented by anyone in the country currently except RE and I.

I think we can include Surly in the club.  :icon_sunny:

RE

For sure;  But Surly has not been landing on Park Place as often as we have in this thread.

(https://www.myjourneytomillions.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/banker-monopoly.jpg)
Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: Eddie on December 31, 2018, 08:40:19 AM
I think there is plenty of evidence that academia is eaten up with political correctness. I just sent four kids through college, and I see the effects on my own kids, and social media is full of it. I'm not even on FB and it filters through to me through the family channels.

I clearly saw it in action when I saw how they hand out Honorary Doctorates at SAIC where my son recently got his MFA. One gay, one black, one female. Diversity uber alles. I just had dinner with a geography prof from Michigan, couple of nights ago here. I said, you're a white male, better keep your head down. He replied, " Oh, I do."

It's real. Believe it.
Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: RE on December 31, 2018, 08:50:27 AM
I think there is plenty of evidence that academia is eaten up with political correctness. I just sent four kids through college, and I see the effects on my own kids, and social media is full of it. I'm not even on FB and it filters through to me through the family channels.

I clearly saw it in action when I saw how they hand out Honorary Doctorates at SAIC where my son recently got his MFA. One gay, one black, one female. Diversity uber alles. I just had dinner with a geography prof from Michigan, couple of nights ago here. I said, you're a white male, better keep your head down. He replied, " Oh, I do."

It's real. Believe it.

Anecdotal Evidence.

RE
Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: Eddie on December 31, 2018, 09:00:57 AM
Suggest you do an image search on "Vice President of Diversity and Inclusion". You guys are totally clueless.

The "Special People" own the college campuses. Anecdotal evidence, yes. Lots of it.

Read about Bret Weinstein.

Read about Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who happens to be Niall Ferguson's wife.

Yeah....you ignorant old farts really think you understand...but you don't. I know you mean well. I get that. I understand why you believe what you believe.

The thing I really want you to get....is that I'm a liberal. I vote. I'm a pot-smoking old hippie.

I'm not any kind of alt.right spokesperson. Wake up and smell the coffee.
Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: RE on December 31, 2018, 09:03:09 AM
One left is historical and not represented by anyone in the country currently except RE and I.

I think we can include Surly in the club.  :icon_sunny:

RE

For sure;  But Surly has not been landing on Park Place as often as we have in this thread.

(https://www.myjourneytomillions.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/banker-monopoly.jpg)

Do not pass Go, do not collect $200.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSc3xkZmGjVUDmLr6hD5Bi4Nf2Df0IeSBiK8Om5fNl0Cz8GYvGF)

RE
Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: RE on December 31, 2018, 09:07:40 AM
Suggest you do an image search on "Vice President of Diversity and Inclusion". You guys are totally clueless.

The "Special People" own the college campuses. Anecdotal evidence, yes. Lots of it.

You seek it out.  It's Confirmation Bias on Steroids.

I'm not clueless, BTW.  Not stupid or dim either.  Let's try to avoid the Ad Hom, shall we?

RE
Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: Eddie on December 31, 2018, 10:34:45 AM
I POINT it out. You and the other socialists here DENY it.

Reality will make us all accept the truth in the fullness of time. Time will tell.

I just don't think the Diner socialist contingent is reality based. EOM.

Sorry if I was ad hom.
Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: Surly1 on December 31, 2018, 12:23:24 PM

I can assure you that is the last thing the liberal establishment wants,. The left wants to silence them and smear them with anything they can get to stick. There are a slew of articles trying to do just that, and I already objected when Surly started posting them here. Because they were just hit pieces. Not a shred of truth in any of them.

I challenged him and I challenge you to prove your points with facts, and not just tell me you don't like Niall Ferguson  because he's highly educated, an erudite scholar and maybe a bit  snooty. Angry? Did we listen tot the same video? What angry things did he say?

//
They are questioning the accepted dogma of the liberal academic world, and the liberal political machine, which is a false narrative.


Oh, fuck this noise. If I have to rouse myself from my pallet of woe in a drug-induced haze to defend itself from ad nom bullshit own New Year's Eve, then all I can say is Happy New Year to you too, motherfucker.

Asvin and you posted little mini-hagiographies of Jordan Fucking Peterson, who decries the same "cultural Maoists" that Kunstler decried a couple of years ago when some young people made bold to challenge his whitemaleperks as an Intellectual Made Man at a speaking engagement on an Ivy League Cathedral. JHK apparently had to mop the flop sweat from his upper lip twice in this engagement, and the never of the challengers... one imagines he oping up a giant can of, "Don't You Know Who I AM" in thunderous, Episcopalian tones.

Lunkster has never been the same, his precious fee-fees so damaged by... the temerity. And now like Peterson, et al, he unpacks his little hate boner for "political correctness" at every opportunity, the better to become the darling of the rage spluttering right and other weak men who have no accomplishments aside from un unearned, accident of birth as a White American Man.

As I have said in this pagers before and will say to you again now, "political correctness" is what the oppressor classes call it when the traditionally oppressed make clear they are sick and tired of putting uo with their shit. Still true, ace.

Then I posted some diatribes in reply, which you libel with the above untruths, because they put them lie to bullshit in which you find such comfort and succor.

One of the ruses you resort to is the same one Ashvin like s to employ, namely assigning your opponent several hundred pages of homework before you respond. I am disinclined to spin up to speed on the disagreeable when I can barely make time for the essential. I don't know and don't give a fuck about Ferguson, but whenever I hear about one of the retrogrades rattling on about 'free speech," you can be sure it's as a marketing tactic, not a core moral value. The speech they are interested in is their own, not yours or mine.

Peterson became the darling of the fashy-haircut crowd when he picked an imaginary free speech fight over transgender pronouns in Canada, for instance, recently sued two professors for criticizing him and his views. This is Viagra for the right wing rage boner, because nothing gets a neo-nazi in full rut more than a case of incipient victimhood. Also don't lose sight of the fact that "free speech" and "platforming" arguments are often used as proxies for actual arguments. “These cowards won’t debate me!” is an easier sell than “Let me tell you about why I think 200 years of science is wrong even though I can’t get my ideas published in a scientific journal.”

Most white people, and in particular white males, oppose the notion of white privilege because, once you acknowledge that to be born while and male in America is be born on third base while insisting you hit a triple, you are the  left with the unpleasant implications. As white men we process the world via our own cognitive frame, take in new information, sift through the data, sort the important from the unimportant and decide how to feel about it all. Thus we as white people view our privilege as natural and invisible. If I had a dollar for every time a white person has told me "no one ever gave me anything" in the context of race, I'd own my own island.

Equality for the traditionally oppressed this translates to a loss issue for poor whites.  If black folk, other minorities, immigrants and refugees have "cut ahead of them in line," meaning the government caters to others before them, they become angry. Although they never question why they should occupy the first position. That implicit assumption — I should be tended to before all others — encapsulates how they view white privilege as natural and invisible. It's n the DNA of this country, including the Constitution.

And now we find ourselves at the end of cheap energy and the beginning of unpayable debt, and now the benefits of whiteitide are not so easily observed by poor whites in eastern Ohio, or West Virginia. But the mantle of privilege, that assurance that, no matter what, "I'm white and you're not," will continue to be exploited by the divide-and-conquer crowd.

Where you see "Red Guards" (as if), I see waves of armed brownshirts.
Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: RE on December 31, 2018, 12:46:01 PM

I just don't think the Diner socialist contingent is reality based. EOM.


Of course you don't  You are a dedicated Capitalist.  You'll have to deal with the fact though that despite some small enclaves for Nazis like TBP, the Collapse Blogosphere is overwhelmingly lefty.  Wait till you see the stats.  lol. So unless you wanna go back to that sewer to discuss your daily dose of doom, you're just going to continue to get hammered here.  EOS.

RE
Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: AJ on December 31, 2018, 02:54:21 PM
Help!! I might be rich, but I still think I am left (at least left of democrats). I want higher (onerous) taxes on the wealthy. I want it distributed to the poor and less fortunate, I want free medical/dental care for all. Why are all the doctors (Hippocratic Oath hypocrites) and dentists against socialised medicine?? Cause they have a scam going. (Same with lawyers!) The 1950's income tax structure is what this country needs.

As a old white guy I know I have lived a privileged existence in this country. I was born on 2nd base (I take my religious indoctrination as something holding me back from a 3rd base birth). Sure I worked my way through college and law school. AND getting and keeping jobs was easy. If I had been born Hispanic, or African-American all those things would not be givens. I never felt racism until I started dating my wife (Chinese American). My future mother-in-law knew everyone was inferior to the Chinese (how's that for turning old white privilege on it's head?). She had a special word in Cantonese for white people (lau fan (sp?)). It meant "white devil". She called me that with no ill will, laughed when she did it. That made me look at race from a different perspective and realize that if racism was institutionalized against whites I wouldn't have gotten all the breaks I did.
AJ
Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: g on December 31, 2018, 03:15:37 PM
Help!! I might be rich, but I still think I am left (at least left of democrats). I want higher (onerous) taxes on the wealthy. I want it distributed to the poor and less fortunate, I want free medical/dental care for all. Why are all the doctors (Hippocratic Oath hypocrites) and dentists against socialised medicine?? Cause they have a scam going. (Same with lawyers!) The 1950's income tax structure is what this country needs.

As a old white guy I know I have lived a privileged existence in this country. I was born on 2nd base (I take my religious indoctrination as something holding me back from a 3rd base birth). Sure I worked my way through college and law school. AND getting and keeping jobs was easy. If I had been born Hispanic, or African-American all those things would not be givens. I never felt racism until I started dating my wife (Chinese American). My future mother-in-law knew everyone was inferior to the Chinese (how's that for turning old white privilege on it's head?). She had a special word in Cantonese for white people (lau fan (sp?)). It meant "white devil". She called me that with no ill will, laughed when she did it. That made me look at race from a different perspective and realize that if racism was institutionalized against whites I wouldn't have gotten all the breaks I did.
AJ

                           
                                     (https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.discovermagazine.com%2Fd-brief%2Ffiles%2F2013%2F08%2FYo-Yo_Ma.jpg&f=1)
Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: Eddie on December 31, 2018, 03:43:01 PM
One of the ruses you resort to is the same one Ashvin like s to employ, namely assigning your opponent several hundred pages of homework before you respond. I am disinclined to spin up to speed on the disagreeable when I can barely make time for the essential. I don't know and don't give a fuck about Ferguson, but whenever I hear about one of the retrogrades rattling on about 'free speech," you can be sure it's as a marketing tactic, not a core moral value. The speech they are interested in is their own, not yours or mine.


I don't ever resort to ruses of any kind. I don't need to.

Why the fuck would I deliberately lie? My well-being doesn't depend on kissing the corporatists asses. My position as a healthcare provider puts me in a position to be fucked over by them every day. But that doesn't make what's going on now on the left any easier for me to swallow. I see both sides, very clearly...and you do not.


This whole idea that I'm some kind of apologist for capitalism would be completely laughable, if it weren't obvious you're hanging it on me as a target.....which is absolutely exactly what Peterson, Weinstein, and many other respected academic people are having happen to them too. It's the MO of the left leaning mob to try to smear anybody who critiques them and calls them out on their increasingly extreme strident tone.

News flash. Eric Weinstein is NOT a conservative. Ayaan Hirsi Ali is an advocate for human rights, who happens to criticize Islam for its subjugation of women. They aren't on the alt.right. Neither am I.
 
I'm the most straight up guy on this site. I call 'em exactly like I see 'em, and I  don't give a rat's ass what you or RE or K-Dog think.  All three of you have put your hopes and dreams on an ideology that I once went along with myself. But now, it's pretty clear that it's turning into something far different than what it started out to be.

I just wanted you to listen to these guys because they make good sense. I'm sorry none of you has an attention span longer than five minutes. Truth is, you can't get to the heart of real issues without spending some time. Which, I guess, is why your responses are always canned and obviously aren't developed after actually paying attention long enough to know what the conversation is even about.

I guess all you guys are just like everybody else out there. You pick your team and you root for them. Once you pick your team, its just rah, rah, rah for our side. Typical short-sighted human behavior. You're way too invested now to ever question the narrative you've been sold.

I think all of us know capitalism fucked the planet. We're done. Stick a fork in it. Yes, there is an underclass. I've spent my whole life trying to stay the fuck out of it.

What you stand to find out, if you live long enough, is that mobs of people who don't think at all.....who form their opinions based on poorly conceived, erroneous assumptions that only appeal to base emotions........ fuck other people. Innocent people, not just Wall Street tycoons.

You'll never meet me on the barricades....because I'm not a true believer in anything....except maybe the truth. I won't be wearing any colored shirts....nor will you find me marching for the rights of the downtrodden poor. I'm too busy avoiding becoming one of them myself.

And all the special people you think its your duty to stand up for? They will use you like the useful idiot you happen to be, until the day it's your turn to be their target du jour.

Ruse indeed.

Wasted time, thats what it is. I should know better.





Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: Eddie on December 31, 2018, 03:53:57 PM
Help!! I might be rich, but I still think I am left (at least left of democrats). I want higher (onerous) taxes on the wealthy. I want it distributed to the poor and less fortunate, I want free medical/dental care for all. Why are all the doctors (Hippocratic Oath hypocrites) and dentists against socialised medicine?? Cause they have a scam going. (Same with lawyers!) The 1950's income tax structure is what this country needs.

As a old white guy I know I have lived a privileged existence in this country. I was born on 2nd base (I take my religious indoctrination as something holding me back from a 3rd base birth). Sure I worked my way through college and law school. AND getting and keeping jobs was easy. If I had been born Hispanic, or African-American all those things would not be givens. I never felt racism until I started dating my wife (Chinese American). My future mother-in-law knew everyone was inferior to the Chinese (how's that for turning old white privilege on it's head?). She had a special word in Cantonese for white people (lau fan (sp?)). It meant "white devil". She called me that with no ill will, laughed when she did it. That made me look at race from a different perspective and realize that if racism was institutionalized against whites I wouldn't have gotten all the breaks I did.
AJ

You're a well-intended guy who is trying to own his own part in contributing to making this a fucked up world.

For your benevolence, the people you feel guilty about getting screwed over will have you for lunch one day.

There is no redemption. If you gave every cent you've accumulated to the Socialist Workers Party and marched with them every day, the only thing they'd ever give you back would be the end of a shovel, to let you dig ditches for your sin of having been moderately financially successful. They hate your guts.

Your attitude is not congruent with long term survival in the coming bad times. Just sayin'

Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: RE on December 31, 2018, 04:07:15 PM
I'm the most straight up guy on this site.

 ::)

What poll did you take to get that result?  I vote for myself as most straight up guy.

RE
Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: K-Dog on January 01, 2019, 01:09:14 AM
She's his second wife.  Ayaan Hirsi Ali <= Council on Foreign Relations.

You gonna tell us to invest in the Carlyle group next?

More pomposity.

Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: AJ on January 01, 2019, 04:23:37 AM
Help!! I might be rich, but I still think I am left (at least left of democrats). I want higher (onerous) taxes on the wealthy. I want it distributed to the poor and less fortunate, I want free medical/dental care for all. Why are all the doctors (Hippocratic Oath hypocrites) and dentists against socialised medicine?? Cause they have a scam going. (Same with lawyers!) The 1950's income tax structure is what this country needs.

As a old white guy I know I have lived a privileged existence in this country. I was born on 2nd base (I take my religious indoctrination as something holding me back from a 3rd base birth). Sure I worked my way through college and law school. AND getting and keeping jobs was easy. If I had been born Hispanic, or African-American all those things would not be givens. I never felt racism until I started dating my wife (Chinese American). My future mother-in-law knew everyone was inferior to the Chinese (how's that for turning old white privilege on it's head?). She had a special word in Cantonese for white people (lau fan (sp?)). It meant "white devil". She called me that with no ill will, laughed when she did it. That made me look at race from a different perspective and realize that if racism was institutionalized against whites I wouldn't have gotten all the breaks I did.
AJ

You're a well-intended guy who is trying to own his own part in contributing to making this a fucked up world.

For your benevolence, the people you feel guilty about getting screwed over will have you for lunch one day.

There is no redemption. If you gave every cent you've accumulated to the Socialist Workers Party and marched with them every day, the only thing they'd ever give you back would be the end of a shovel, to let you dig ditches for your sin of having been moderately financially successful. They hate your guts.

Your attitude is not congruent with long term survival in the coming bad times. Just sayin'
Yeah, you're right I'm trying to atone for my part in fucking up the future of this planet. I think most of us did that through ignorance at how things worked and the ramifications of low ERoEI. I do think there are capitalists out there that 40 years ago knew that they were sending us down this path and didn't give a damn. Just like the corporate thugs (and a lot of the "scientists") working for big tobacco.
I might join in a march now and then, but anything more I leave to the young.
My job now is the C5 approach and integrate (and ingratiate) with my rural neighbors. Being a loud obnoxious leftist wouldn't help me with most of the rural folk around me, although there are a surprising amount of ex-hippies living in Oregon. :o
I am always sceptical of "True Believers" in any cause (Eric Hoffer). I could always be wrong and am many times. I am always leery of hubris and is probably why I have not written much here at the Diner.
AJ
Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: RE on January 01, 2019, 05:24:52 AM
I am always leery of hubris and is probably why I have not written much here at the Diner.

You're doing pretty good now!  :icon_sunny:

(https://i0.wp.com/www.geektown.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/better-late.jpg?zoom=2.625&resize=850%2C370&ssl=1)

RE
Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: Eddie on January 01, 2019, 07:48:18 AM
She's his second wife.  Ayaan Hirsi Ali <= Council on Foreign Relations.

You gonna tell us to invest in the Carlyle group next?

More pomposity.
No, I'm going to suggest you invest in your selves by putting money into projects like Power Ledger and Celsius Network, but I doubt you'll listen to me on that either.

Niall Ferguson and his wife are conservative, politically. Ayaan Hirsi Ali is strongly against the rise of Muslim political influence and Sharia Law in the Netherlands, where she came, fleeing those influences. Her story is interesting,and worth reading about. She was in Parliament, and she wasn't on the extreme right, as I understand it. She WAS, however, tarred with that brush.

I personally think the  huge surge of Muslim influence is tearing Europe apart, so I agree with her, at least as far as I can see. The meme of unlimited immigration as a positive...that societies can be "melting pots"and that  diversity is some universally desirable norm..... that we should embrace blindly....is flat wrong.
Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: Eddie on January 01, 2019, 10:13:24 AM
Help!! I might be rich, but I still think I am left (at least left of democrats). I want higher (onerous) taxes on the wealthy. I want it distributed to the poor and less fortunate, I want free medical/dental care for all. Why are all the doctors (Hippocratic Oath hypocrites) and dentists against socialised medicine?? Cause they have a scam going. (Same with lawyers!) The 1950's income tax structure is what this country needs.

As a old white guy I know I have lived a privileged existence in this country. I was born on 2nd base (I take my religious indoctrination as something holding me back from a 3rd base birth). Sure I worked my way through college and law school. AND getting and keeping jobs was easy. If I had been born Hispanic, or African-American all those things would not be givens. I never felt racism until I started dating my wife (Chinese American). My future mother-in-law knew everyone was inferior to the Chinese (how's that for turning old white privilege on it's head?). She had a special word in Cantonese for white people (lau fan (sp?)). It meant "white devil". She called me that with no ill will, laughed when she did it. That made me look at race from a different perspective and realize that if racism was institutionalized against whites I wouldn't have gotten all the breaks I did.
AJ

You're a well-intended guy who is trying to own his own part in contributing to making this a fucked up world.

For your benevolence, the people you feel guilty about getting screwed over will have you for lunch one day.

There is no redemption. If you gave every cent you've accumulated to the Socialist Workers Party and marched with them every day, the only thing they'd ever give you back would be the end of a shovel, to let you dig ditches for your sin of having been moderately financially successful. They hate your guts.

Your attitude is not congruent with long term survival in the coming bad times. Just sayin'
Yeah, you're right I'm trying to atone for my part in fucking up the future of this planet. I think most of us did that through ignorance at how things worked and the ramifications of low ERoEI. I do think there are capitalists out there that 40 years ago knew that they were sending us down this path and didn't give a damn. Just like the corporate thugs (and a lot of the "scientists") working for big tobacco.
I might join in a march now and then, but anything more I leave to the young.
My job now is the C5 approach and integrate (and ingratiate) with my rural neighbors. Being a loud obnoxious leftist wouldn't help me with most of the rural folk around me, although there are a surprising amount of ex-hippies living in Oregon. :o
I am always sceptical of "True Believers" in any cause (Eric Hoffer). I could always be wrong and am many times. I am always leery of hubris and is probably why I have not written much here at the Diner.
AJ

I was once very close, philosophically, to your POV, and also to that of Surly. Over time, mostly over the last decade, I've come around to a different way of thinking.

I don't hate on anybody, and I recognize that the world could have gone a different way, one that might have resulted in a more egalitarian and just society, and more towards a better, more sustainable way of living.

But the window for that has passed, and Mother Earth's bounty has been traded for Chevys and iPhones, and Twinkies and millions of cubic tons of garbage and toxic sludge.

The colonial model of displacing indigenous people....using the international banking pyramid scheme to make weak sovereign countries into vassal states, extracting the resources and creating slums...that is responsible for where we are. It's an evil system, and the people that run it have known that for a long time.....not sure, maybe from the beginning.

Making myself into somebody like my old "friend" Palloy, would be one way for me to deal with that. I could "live more simply so that others might simply live", as the saying goes. Sounds good, on the face of it.

But....for one thing, at this juncture, my doing that would be pissing in the wind. It wouldn't make one iota of difference. I also think that there might be a little bit of a false narrative there. That's a little hard to explain in a short comment here, but I just don't completely buy the whole enchilada. Like most slogans, that one glosses over a very complicated reality.

Taking that road would make my life immeasurably harder, and interfere with my plans to make my own personal resilience plan as good as I can make it. 

I've decided that other people's opinions about white privilege, who owes what to whom because of what has happened in the past...all that....is fairly irrelevant to me. And.....I don't think the things that have been tried to fix those problems have taken all the facts of evolutionary biology into account. And those things matter, tremendously.

All the attempts at making our society color-blind, at leveling the playing field, etc, etc....it has done some good, but it has come at a cost, and it's had a lot of unintended consequences. The approach, however well intended, was really simplistic and has been completely lacking in understanding....about many highly relevant factors. The result of two generations of top-down mandated social justice, has created a society full of incredibly delusional, silly people.

I'm "woke" now...but it ain't the kind of woke the silly SJW's are talking about.

I'm very clear on who I am and where my responsibilities lie. All this class struggle bullshit is basically the mewling cries of a culture that is about to pass into history and probably be forgotten forever.. We're living at the end of the world, as we know it. If anyone survives, the society we have a hundred years from now will be radically different.

Guilt is wasted. I have no time for silly shit. I need to get on with it.



Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: Eddie on January 01, 2019, 10:27:59 AM
I am always leery of hubris and is probably why I have not written much here at the Diner.

You're doing pretty good now!  :icon_sunny:

(https://i0.wp.com/www.geektown.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/better-late.jpg?zoom=2.625&resize=850%2C370&ssl=1)

RE

I agree that your voice here is important. I for one am very glad you decided to come out of Lurkerville and join our discussions. You're obviously a very ethical human being, and you write about important things, and you do it in a sane, moderate voice that makes me happy to discuss things. I think the things we write in this little quiet corner of the internet might matter a lot, actually.

If not, it's still a good way to waste time as we watch the clock tick down to widespread human extinction.
Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: K-Dog on January 01, 2019, 10:40:43 AM
She's his second wife.  Ayaan Hirsi Ali <= Council on Foreign Relations.

You gonna tell us to invest in the Carlyle group next?

More pomposity.
No, I'm going to suggest you invest in your selves by putting money into projects like Power Ledger and Celsius Network, but I doubt you'll listen to me on that either.

Niall Ferguson and his wife are conservative, politically. Ayaan Hirsi Ali is strongly against the rise of Muslim political influence and Sharia Law in the Netherlands, where she came, fleeing those influences. Her story is interesting,and worth reading about. She was in Parliament, and she wasn't on the extreme right, as I understand it. She WAS, however, tarred with that brush.

I personally think the  huge surge of Muslim influence is tearing Europe apart, so I agree with her, at least as far as I can see. The meme of unlimited immigration as a positive...that societies can be "melting pots"and that  diversity is some universally desirable norm..... that we should embrace blindly....is flat wrong.

Evanston, Illinois USA — As part of Power Ledger’s partnership with Clean Energy Blockchain Network, the team has today announced its first commercial deployment in the United States at Northwestern University Evanston campus.

The Power Ledger platform will enable Northwestern University to trade clean energy both on-campus and between campuses with no additional hardware, software or subscription fees, by using pre existing meters.

Northwestern University Evanston and now change the name of their Ford Building to 'Jevons Paradox'.  We all know about Jevons paradox here so I'll not explain the joke.

Quote
I'm the most straight up guy on this site.
 
 <=  Are you the pot or kettle?
Quote
I call 'em exactly like I see 'em, and I  don't give a rat's ass what you or RE or K-Dog think.

And I don't care about what you think about what I think.  And I don't care about what you think about the way I think about what you think about what I think about what your think either.  So there.

Quote
All three of you have put your hopes and dreams on an ideology that I once went along with myself.

http://www.youtube.com/v/uPdH3LXGa78

Ideology is our daily experience.

Quote
But now, it's pretty clear that it's turning into something far different than what it started out to be.

Speak for yourself, I'm getting my shit together.  And I wasn't screwed up to begin with. 

Quote
it's turning into something far different
   'its' is not 'us'.


Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: K-Dog on January 01, 2019, 10:51:45 AM
http://www.youtube.com/v/xN2ZGSX0cIE

I nominate Slavoj Žižek is an honorary Diner.  I'm assigning homework.  It's an admin privilege.  Snarkiness aside this guy bridges the SWJ gap and the mass insanity Kool-Aid from which Eddie has drunk.

SWJ attitudes exist yes but it is a cultural zeitgeist and has no leaders.  I'm going to pull rank in a very unusual way.

Jordan Peterson, Ferguson, Bret Weinstein.  All these guys would piss their pants if they were gang stalked by the FBI and homeland security.  I did not.  It made me smarter and stronger.  These guys get gang stalked by a few estrogen bathed young birds with too much time on their hands and they freak out and all they do is become millionaires out of it.  And in the process of getting rich they have to market an enemy.

Who's the real bad-ass?

Obviously the Dog!
Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: Eddie on January 01, 2019, 10:54:53 AM
Glad we can still argue. I'll watch it.

Jevon's Paradox is not a bad thing, btw.
Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: K-Dog on January 01, 2019, 11:33:48 AM
Sometimes I could see by their reactions that they respected my strength.  That encouraged me.  They could not help it.
Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: RE on January 01, 2019, 01:16:02 PM
Help!! I might be rich, but I still think I am left (at least left of democrats). I want higher (onerous) taxes on the wealthy. I want it distributed to the poor and less fortunate, I want free medical/dental care for all. Why are all the doctors (Hippocratic Oath hypocrites) and dentists against socialised medicine?? Cause they have a scam going. (Same with lawyers!) The 1950's income tax structure is what this country needs.

As a old white guy I know I have lived a privileged existence in this country. I was born on 2nd base (I take my religious indoctrination as something holding me back from a 3rd base birth). Sure I worked my way through college and law school. AND getting and keeping jobs was easy. If I had been born Hispanic, or African-American all those things would not be givens. I never felt racism until I started dating my wife (Chinese American). My future mother-in-law knew everyone was inferior to the Chinese (how's that for turning old white privilege on it's head?). She had a special word in Cantonese for white people (lau fan (sp?)). It meant "white devil". She called me that with no ill will, laughed when she did it. That made me look at race from a different perspective and realize that if racism was institutionalized against whites I wouldn't have gotten all the breaks I did.
AJ

You're a well-intended guy who is trying to own his own part in contributing to making this a fucked up world.

For your benevolence, the people you feel guilty about getting screwed over will have you for lunch one day.

There is no redemption. If you gave every cent you've accumulated to the Socialist Workers Party and marched with them every day, the only thing they'd ever give you back would be the end of a shovel, to let you dig ditches for your sin of having been moderately financially successful. They hate your guts.

Your attitude is not congruent with long term survival in the coming bad times. Just sayin'
Yeah, you're right I'm trying to atone for my part in fucking up the future of this planet. I think most of us did that through ignorance at how things worked and the ramifications of low ERoEI. I do think there are capitalists out there that 40 years ago knew that they were sending us down this path and didn't give a damn. Just like the corporate thugs (and a lot of the "scientists") working for big tobacco.
I might join in a march now and then, but anything more I leave to the young.
My job now is the C5 approach and integrate (and ingratiate) with my rural neighbors. Being a loud obnoxious leftist wouldn't help me with most of the rural folk around me, although there are a surprising amount of ex-hippies living in Oregon. :o
I am always sceptical of "True Believers" in any cause (Eric Hoffer). I could always be wrong and am many times. I am always leery of hubris and is probably why I have not written much here at the Diner.
AJ

I was once very close, philosophically, to your POV, and also to that of Surly. Over time, mostly over the last decade, I've come around to a different way of thinking.

I don't hate on anybody, and I recognize that the world could have gone a different way, one that might have resulted in a more egalitarian and just society, and more towards a better, more sustainable way of living.

But the window for that has passed, and Mother Earth's bounty has been traded for Chevys and iPhones, and Twinkies and millions of cubic tons of garbage and toxic sludge.

The colonial model of displacing indigenous people....using the international banking pyramid scheme to make weak sovereign countries into vassal states, extracting the resources and creating slums...that is responsible for where we are. It's an evil system, and the people that run it have known that for a long time.....not sure, maybe from the beginning.

Making myself into somebody like my old "friend" Palloy, would be one way for me to deal with that. I could "live more simply so that others might simply live", as the saying goes. Sounds good, on the face of it.

But....for one thing, at this juncture, my doing that would be pissing in the wind. It wouldn't make one iota of difference. I also think that there might be a little bit of a false narrative there. That's a little hard to explain in a short comment here, but I just don't completely buy the whole enchilada. Like most slogans, that one glosses over a very complicated reality.

Taking that road would make my life immeasurably harder, and interfere with my plans to make my own personal resilience plan as good as I can make it. 

I've decided that other people's opinions about white privilege, who owes what to whom because of what has happened in the past...all that....is fairly irrelevant to me. And.....I don't think the things that have been tried to fix those problems have taken all the facts of evolutionary biology into account. And those things matter, tremendously.

All the attempts at making our society color-blind, at leveling the playing field, etc, etc....it has done some good, but it has come at a cost, and it's had a lot of unintended consequences. The approach, however well intended, was really simplistic and has been completely lacking in understanding....about many highly relevant factors. The result of two generations of top-down mandated social justice, has created a society full of incredibly delusional, silly people.

I'm "woke" now...but it ain't the kind of woke the silly SJW's are talking about.

I'm very clear on who I am and where my responsibilities lie. All this class struggle bullshit is basically the mewling cries of a culture that is about to pass into history and probably be forgotten forever.. We're living at the end of the world, as we know it. If anyone survives, the society we have a hundred years from now will be radically different.

Guilt is wasted. I have no time for silly shit. I need to get on with it.

What a bunch of bullshit.  The reality is you just like living the high life and you don't want to give it up.  You like snorkeling every year in the VI.  You like skiing the deep powder every year in Utah.  You like eating Prime Rib every Friday.  You got yours and everybody else can go fuck themselves.  You've moved into the tent with Dr. Mcstinksion also, and your reaction is to just Party like it's 1999.  You may not feel guilt, because you've walled it off but the guilt iis still there.  You'll pay for it too when you cross the Great Divide.

RE
Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: Eddie on January 01, 2019, 03:03:51 PM
Help!! I might be rich, but I still think I am left (at least left of democrats). I want higher (onerous) taxes on the wealthy. I want it distributed to the poor and less fortunate, I want free medical/dental care for all. Why are all the doctors (Hippocratic Oath hypocrites) and dentists against socialised medicine?? Cause they have a scam going. (Same with lawyers!) The 1950's income tax structure is what this country needs.

As a old white guy I know I have lived a privileged existence in this country. I was born on 2nd base (I take my religious indoctrination as something holding me back from a 3rd base birth). Sure I worked my way through college and law school. AND getting and keeping jobs was easy. If I had been born Hispanic, or African-American all those things would not be givens. I never felt racism until I started dating my wife (Chinese American). My future mother-in-law knew everyone was inferior to the Chinese (how's that for turning old white privilege on it's head?). She had a special word in Cantonese for white people (lau fan (sp?)). It meant "white devil". She called me that with no ill will, laughed when she did it. That made me look at race from a different perspective and realize that if racism was institutionalized against whites I wouldn't have gotten all the breaks I did.
AJ

You're a well-intended guy who is trying to own his own part in contributing to making this a fucked up world.

For your benevolence, the people you feel guilty about getting screwed over will have you for lunch one day.

There is no redemption. If you gave every cent you've accumulated to the Socialist Workers Party and marched with them every day, the only thing they'd ever give you back would be the end of a shovel, to let you dig ditches for your sin of having been moderately financially successful. They hate your guts.

Your attitude is not congruent with long term survival in the coming bad times. Just sayin'
Yeah, you're right I'm trying to atone for my part in fucking up the future of this planet. I think most of us did that through ignorance at how things worked and the ramifications of low ERoEI. I do think there are capitalists out there that 40 years ago knew that they were sending us down this path and didn't give a damn. Just like the corporate thugs (and a lot of the "scientists") working for big tobacco.
I might join in a march now and then, but anything more I leave to the young.
My job now is the C5 approach and integrate (and ingratiate) with my rural neighbors. Being a loud obnoxious leftist wouldn't help me with most of the rural folk around me, although there are a surprising amount of ex-hippies living in Oregon. :o
I am always sceptical of "True Believers" in any cause (Eric Hoffer). I could always be wrong and am many times. I am always leery of hubris and is probably why I have not written much here at the Diner.
AJ

I was once very close, philosophically, to your POV, and also to that of Surly. Over time, mostly over the last decade, I've come around to a different way of thinking.

I don't hate on anybody, and I recognize that the world could have gone a different way, one that might have resulted in a more egalitarian and just society, and more towards a better, more sustainable way of living.

But the window for that has passed, and Mother Earth's bounty has been traded for Chevys and iPhones, and Twinkies and millions of cubic tons of garbage and toxic sludge.

The colonial model of displacing indigenous people....using the international banking pyramid scheme to make weak sovereign countries into vassal states, extracting the resources and creating slums...that is responsible for where we are. It's an evil system, and the people that run it have known that for a long time.....not sure, maybe from the beginning.

Making myself into somebody like my old "friend" Palloy, would be one way for me to deal with that. I could "live more simply so that others might simply live", as the saying goes. Sounds good, on the face of it.

But....for one thing, at this juncture, my doing that would be pissing in the wind. It wouldn't make one iota of difference. I also think that there might be a little bit of a false narrative there. That's a little hard to explain in a short comment here, but I just don't completely buy the whole enchilada. Like most slogans, that one glosses over a very complicated reality.

Taking that road would make my life immeasurably harder, and interfere with my plans to make my own personal resilience plan as good as I can make it. 

I've decided that other people's opinions about white privilege, who owes what to whom because of what has happened in the past...all that....is fairly irrelevant to me. And.....I don't think the things that have been tried to fix those problems have taken all the facts of evolutionary biology into account. And those things matter, tremendously.

All the attempts at making our society color-blind, at leveling the playing field, etc, etc....it has done some good, but it has come at a cost, and it's had a lot of unintended consequences. The approach, however well intended, was really simplistic and has been completely lacking in understanding....about many highly relevant factors. The result of two generations of top-down mandated social justice, has created a society full of incredibly delusional, silly people.

I'm "woke" now...but it ain't the kind of woke the silly SJW's are talking about.

I'm very clear on who I am and where my responsibilities lie. All this class struggle bullshit is basically the mewling cries of a culture that is about to pass into history and probably be forgotten forever.. We're living at the end of the world, as we know it. If anyone survives, the society we have a hundred years from now will be radically different.

Guilt is wasted. I have no time for silly shit. I need to get on with it.

What a bunch of bullshit.  The reality is you just like living the high life and you don't want to give it up.  You like snorkeling every year in the VI.  You like skiing the deep powder every year in Utah.  You like eating Prime Rib every Friday.  You got yours and everybody else can go fuck themselves.  You've moved into the tent with Dr. Mcstinksion also, and your reaction is to just Party like it's 1999.  You may not feel guilt, because you've walled it off but the guilt iis still there.  You'll pay for it too when you cross the Great Divide.

RE
[/quote

Your opinion is duly noted.  Fuck you very much.
Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: K-Dog on January 01, 2019, 08:53:00 PM
Help!! I might be rich, but I still think I am left (at least left of democrats). I want higher (onerous) taxes on the wealthy. I want it distributed to the poor and less fortunate, I want free medical/dental care for all. Why are all the doctors (Hippocratic Oath hypocrites) and dentists against socialised medicine?? Cause they have a scam going. (Same with lawyers!) The 1950's income tax structure is what this country needs.

As a old white guy I know I have lived a privileged existence in this country. I was born on 2nd base (I take my religious indoctrination as something holding me back from a 3rd base birth). Sure I worked my way through college and law school. AND getting and keeping jobs was easy. If I had been born Hispanic, or African-American all those things would not be givens. I never felt racism until I started dating my wife (Chinese American). My future mother-in-law knew everyone was inferior to the Chinese (how's that for turning old white privilege on it's head?). She had a special word in Cantonese for white people (lau fan (sp?)). It meant "white devil". She called me that with no ill will, laughed when she did it. That made me look at race from a different perspective and realize that if racism was institutionalized against whites I wouldn't have gotten all the breaks I did.
AJ

You're a well-intended guy who is trying to own his own part in contributing to making this a fucked up world.

For your benevolence, the people you feel guilty about getting screwed over will have you for lunch one day.

There is no redemption. If you gave every cent you've accumulated to the Socialist Workers Party and marched with them every day, the only thing they'd ever give you back would be the end of a shovel, to let you dig ditches for your sin of having been moderately financially successful. They hate your guts.

Your attitude is not congruent with long term survival in the coming bad times. Just sayin'
Yeah, you're right I'm trying to atone for my part in fucking up the future of this planet. I think most of us did that through ignorance at how things worked and the ramifications of low ERoEI. I do think there are capitalists out there that 40 years ago knew that they were sending us down this path and didn't give a damn. Just like the corporate thugs (and a lot of the "scientists") working for big tobacco.
I might join in a march now and then, but anything more I leave to the young.
My job now is the C5 approach and integrate (and ingratiate) with my rural neighbors. Being a loud obnoxious leftist wouldn't help me with most of the rural folk around me, although there are a surprising amount of ex-hippies living in Oregon. :o
I am always sceptical of "True Believers" in any cause (Eric Hoffer). I could always be wrong and am many times. I am always leery of hubris and is probably why I have not written much here at the Diner.
AJ

I was once very close, philosophically, to your POV, and also to that of Surly. Over time, mostly over the last decade, I've come around to a different way of thinking.

I don't hate on anybody, and I recognize that the world could have gone a different way, one that might have resulted in a more egalitarian and just society, and more towards a better, more sustainable way of living.

But the window for that has passed, and Mother Earth's bounty has been traded for Chevys and iPhones, and Twinkies and millions of cubic tons of garbage and toxic sludge.

The colonial model of displacing indigenous people....using the international banking pyramid scheme to make weak sovereign countries into vassal states, extracting the resources and creating slums...that is responsible for where we are. It's an evil system, and the people that run it have known that for a long time.....not sure, maybe from the beginning.

Making myself into somebody like my old "friend" Palloy, would be one way for me to deal with that. I could "live more simply so that others might simply live", as the saying goes. Sounds good, on the face of it.

But....for one thing, at this juncture, my doing that would be pissing in the wind. It wouldn't make one iota of difference. I also think that there might be a little bit of a false narrative there. That's a little hard to explain in a short comment here, but I just don't completely buy the whole enchilada. Like most slogans, that one glosses over a very complicated reality.

Taking that road would make my life immeasurably harder, and interfere with my plans to make my own personal resilience plan as good as I can make it. 

I've decided that other people's opinions about white privilege, who owes what to whom because of what has happened in the past...all that....is fairly irrelevant to me. And.....I don't think the things that have been tried to fix those problems have taken all the facts of evolutionary biology into account. And those things matter, tremendously.

All the attempts at making our society color-blind, at leveling the playing field, etc, etc....it has done some good, but it has come at a cost, and it's had a lot of unintended consequences. The approach, however well intended, was really simplistic and has been completely lacking in understanding....about many highly relevant factors. The result of two generations of top-down mandated social justice, has created a society full of incredibly delusional, silly people.

I'm "woke" now...but it ain't the kind of woke the silly SJW's are talking about.

I'm very clear on who I am and where my responsibilities lie. All this class struggle bullshit is basically the mewling cries of a culture that is about to pass into history and probably be forgotten forever.. We're living at the end of the world, as we know it. If anyone survives, the society we have a hundred years from now will be radically different.

Guilt is wasted. I have no time for silly shit. I need to get on with it.

What a bunch of bullshit.  The reality is you just like living the high life and you don't want to give it up.  You like snorkeling every year in the VI.  You like skiing the deep powder every year in Utah.  You like eating Prime Rib every Friday.  You got yours and everybody else can go fuck themselves.  You've moved into the tent with Dr. Mcstinksion also, and your reaction is to just Party like it's 1999.  You may not feel guilt, because you've walled it off but the guilt iis still there.  You'll pay for it too when you cross the Great Divide.

RE

Prime Rib every Friday!!!

About a half mile from the 'Whistle Stop' you were at.  The Yankee Grill & Bar, Renton WA.

(https://s3-media4.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/EL5bcwRVCNzyLAYr1hFDzQ/ls.jpg)

The food is great.  Service is comme ci, comme ça.


You may be on to something

Quote
Dr. Mcstinksion also, and your reaction is to just Party like it's 1999.

Leaving Eddie out of it.  People often effectively avoid any consideration of the serious by a continual escape into a 'partay' existence.  Life is never serious for this personality.  Such people develop tight philosophies to keep life from ever getting serious.  They wear carefully cultivated blinders which will be defended to the death if you point them out.

(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-U6g356_1Wd0/Tt5M3q-z5xI/AAAAAAAAA-8/A1kbyKBHIgA/s1600/Blinders.jpg)

I totally agree about Mcstinksion.  He irrationally cultivates the worst possible scenario so he can say nothing matters and anything goes.  Mcstinksion is an extreme, but we all try to mold the world into what fits for us.  Nothing wrong with it as long as you consider:

(https://realchristianmcqueen.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/man-looking-in-mirror.jpg)

The man in the mirror.  Know what you are doing and don't believe your own lies.  It is easy to do, that lying part.





Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: RE on January 01, 2019, 09:04:34 PM
Prime Rib every Friday!!!

About a half mile from the 'Whistle Stop' you were at.  The Yankee Grill & Bar, Renton WA.

(https://s3-media4.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/EL5bcwRVCNzyLAYr1hFDzQ/ls.jpg)

The food is great.  Service is comme ci, comme ça.

I'm planning a Prime Rib Restaurant Review Tour starting here in the Mat Valley.  Only one place to get anything resembling a decent Prime Rib in the Valley, at Evangelos.  Only available Thu-Sun.  After that I'll head into Anchorage where there are 2-3 good restaurants with Prime Rib on the menu.  Then I will move on to WA, where there are a zillion places serving the Big Beef.  After that, TX and Cow Country in MO.

Not every Friday by any means though.  Once a month average maybe.  It will take me a whole month to work through the leftovers.  ::)  By the end of the year I hope to have 12 reviews done.  If I am not pushing up daisies first.

RE
Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: K-Dog on January 02, 2019, 09:03:00 AM
I totally agree about Mcstinksion.  He irrationally cultivates the worst possible scenario so he can say nothing matters and anything goes.  Mcstinksion is an extreme, but we all try to mold the world into what fits for us.

I came across McPherson about 5 years ago and read all his books. Very depressing time until I found a web site that took him apart for cherry picking the science. So, I kinda dismissed him.
HOWEVER, recently I started watching Paul Beckwith videos (another climate scientist). Both Beckwith and now Albert Bates, David Suzuki, David Attenborough, and many others are talking about NTHE. So, the data appear to be piling up in favor of McPherson. He might be the most extreme (collapse of  agriculture and the ecosphere by the end of this year), but Beckwith is now saying that when we have a Blue Ocean event in the Arctic it's all rapidly downhill from there.
As to partying like it's 1999 . . . I'm not sure it's relevant to the old (like myself, RE and Eddie). I partied a lot when I was very young, now I get hangovers way to easy. My kids, that are collapse aware, figure they have 10 years of life left at the most and intend on enjoying some of it. Can't say I blame them.
As to you meat eaters,  :evil4:
Been a vegetarian for 40 years, don't miss the meat at all. NOW if I had to give up cheese :emthup: . . . I'd probably die.
AJ

I met him.  I used to think he was a good influence because NTE could make people think about our situation critically my reasoning went.  I changed my mind about that which leaves Mcstinksion without any redeeming value since he is beyond cherry picking.  Anybody who disagrees with him is crazy from his point of view.

To not worry about the future because you can't do anything about it childish. To be a pied-piper and spread that message to others is evil.  All GM's  science' is bull.  The feedback he thinks is runaway has a mathematical basis he can't understand (allegedly) and it is physically impossible for that feedback to do what he claims.  That does not mean that NTE is not without basis.  It may happen but it won't happen the way Mcstinksion says in any way.

Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: Eddie on January 02, 2019, 06:16:13 PM
Been a vegetarian for 40 years, don't miss the meat at all. NOW if I had to give up cheese :emthup: . . . I'd probably die.
AJ

I will start a new Reddit sub, r/cheeseosaurus.  ;D

(https://c8.alamy.com/comp/AE1BXP/england-food-specialist-cheese-delicatessen-shop-with-man-behind-counter-AE1BXP.jpg)


So what's your favorite cheese?

RE
Wow, that's a hard one :icon_scratch:
I love Brie, but anything with a reasonably strong flavor is good: Very sharp Cheddar, real Swiss (not the stuff in most grocery stores), most goat milk cheeses, Provolone, etc.  The problem is what to put in my preps. Without cows or goats the future is bleak. Not many cheeses that have a shelf life of years  :-[
AJ

This cheese keeps forever, and it gets good reviews. Glad you mentioned cheese. I should add a few more cases.

(https://pleasanthillgrain.com/media/catalog/product/optimized/3/3/33338a72e9752c52fff1e350e25cc251/g_r_canned_cheddar_bega_cheese_797.jpg)

Pleasant Hill Grains is a good source for preps and also kitchen gadgets of all kinds. They are experts in survival nutrition.  Worth reading what they consider essential, even if you buy from someone else.

Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: Eddie on January 02, 2019, 06:50:32 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/xN2ZGSX0cIE

I nominate Slavoj Žižek is an honorary Diner.  I'm assigning homework.  It's an admin privilege.  Snarkiness aside this guy bridges the SWJ gap and the mass insanity Kool-Aid from which Eddie has drunk.

SWJ attitudes exist yes but it is a cultural zeitgeist and has no leaders.  I'm going to pull rank in a very unusual way.

Jordan Peterson, Ferguson, Bret Weinstein.  All these guys would piss their pants if they were gang stalked by the FBI and homeland security.  I did not.  It made me smarter and stronger.  These guys get gang stalked by a few estrogen bathed young birds with too much time on their hands and they freak out and all they do is become millionaires out of it.  And in the process of getting rich they have to market an enemy.

Who's the real bad-ass?

Obviously the Dog!

I still haven't watched the video, but when I get home....traveling tonight. but I wanted to come back to something you said.

SWJ attitudes exist yes but it is a cultural zeitgeist and has no leaders.

I don't really disagree with this at all. But that doesn't reassure me in the slightest. The only difference between a cultural zeitgeist and and a mass delusion is your POV.

Tonight at the airport I had to stare at TV which was front and center in front of me. Unavoidable for me to watch. Want to know what I saw? Anderson Cooper asking Bernie Sanders if it was true that there was widespread sexual harassment and unequal pay for female campaign workers  in his 2016 campaign.

Bernie commenced to kiss ass and make excuses and blame it on the way the campaign grew from nothing to a successful campaign. Made a point of saying his subsequent Senate reelection campaign went to great lengths make everybody to be "trained" to be more PC, and made sure it was done to the satisfaction of the radical fems who complained.

This is why the left can't win. They are cannibals, trying to pull down Bernie over the same kind of stupid bullshit they always use on white males, because they can't NOT do it. It's just what they do. This kind of divisiveness is absurd. It's political self-sabotage.

And another point.

One thing I think liberal, progressive people look to as an example of socialism that works is social democracies in Europe, and maybe Canada too. I think those systems have a lot to recommend them myself.

Here, it's obvious that things like healthcare have been corrupted by big money, and they exist to benefit corporate interests over the interests of rank and file citizens. They do better in Sweden and Canada and France.

But those are still capitalist countries. They just are run by leaders who at least occasionally look out for people over corporate profits.

We could do that here, but we don't. It's the money....around electing politicians, and a lack of term limits....that are the problem, not that corporations merely exist. Americans got bamboozled, and the system was corrupted because Americans are politically apathetic. Now we have corporate capture.

And because after spending half of every tax dollar on the military, there isn't enough left to run good programs. So, do we make the military smaller? No.

But there is a broad sentiment among academics and students (and many other liberal demographics that socialism will make the system equitable. I think that's highly unlikely. Wrong approach.

Title: Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
Post by: K-Dog on January 02, 2019, 08:36:32 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/xN2ZGSX0cIE

I nominate Slavoj Žižek is an honorary Diner.  I'm assigning homework.  It's an admin privilege.  Snarkiness aside this guy bridges the SWJ gap and the mass insanity Kool-Aid from which Eddie has drunk.

SWJ attitudes exist yes but it is a cultural zeitgeist and has no leaders.  I'm going to pull rank in a very unusual way.

Jordan Peterson, Ferguson, Bret Weinstein.  All these guys would piss their pants if they were gang stalked by the FBI and homeland security.  I did not.  It made me smarter and stronger.  These guys get gang stalked by a few estrogen bathed young birds with too much time on their hands and they freak out and all they do is become millionaires out of it.  And in the process of getting rich they have to market an enemy.

Who's the real bad-ass?

Obviously the Dog!

I still haven't watched the video, but when I get home....traveling tonight. but I wanted to come back to something you said.

SWJ attitudes exist yes but it is a cultural zeitgeist and has no leaders.

I don't really disagree with this at all. But that doesn't reassure me in the slightest. The only difference between a cultural zeitgeist and and a mass delusion is your POV.

Tonight at the airport I had to stare at TV which was front and center in front of me. Unavoidable for me to watch. Want to know what I saw? Anderson Cooper asking Bernie Sanders if it was true that there was widespread sexual harassment and unequal pay for female campaign workers  in his 2016 campaign.

Bernie commenced to kiss ass and make excuses and blame it on the way the campaign grew from nothing to a successful campaign. Made a point of saying his subsequent Senate reelection campaign went to great lengths make everybody to be "trained" to be more PC, and made sure it was done to the satisfaction of the radical fems who complained.

This is why the left can't win. They are cannibals, trying to pull down Bernie over the same kind of stupid bullshit they always use on white males, because they can't NOT do it. It's just what they do. This kind of divisiveness is absurd. It's political self-sabotage.

And another point.

One thing I think liberal, progressive people look to as an example of socialism that works is social democracies in Europe, and maybe Canada too. I think those systems have a lot to recommend them myself.

Here, it's obvious that things like healthcare have been corrupted by big money, and they exist to benefit corporate interests over the interests of rank and file citizens. They do better in Sweden and Canada and France.

But those are still capitalist countries. They just are run by leaders who at least occasionally look out for people over corporate profits.

We could do that here, but we don't. It's the money....around electing politicians, and a lack of term limits....that are the problem, not that corporations merely exist. Americans got bamboozled, and the system was corrupted because Americans are politically apathetic. Now we have corporate capture.

And because after spending half of every tax dollar on the military, there isn't enough left to run good programs. So, do we make the military smaller? No.

But there is a broad sentiment among academics and students (and many other liberal demographics that socialism will make the system equitable. I think that's highly unlikely. Wrong approach.

Anderson Cooper is not left.

Left is:

(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_bSwuUSF_Rqs/SoyCb1LQtTI/AAAAAAAANuQ/F9NJvG0SRy8/s400/elsecretodezara.jpg)

Anderson Cooper is rich.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/Vanderbilt_Mansion_-_IMG_7944.JPG/344px-Vanderbilt_Mansion_-_IMG_7944.JPG)

It is easier for a capitalist to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to be left.

It's a question of definition.  Equating the left with American aristocracy has been a notably successful bait and switch.  Only in America!  Surely you don't mean Anderson is left because he sucks dick?  Another successful American bait and switch.

(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hcGd2PPKwJU/VZdZiEOyWmI/AAAAAAABP2Q/KU8L-3NQ94I/s1600/eagle-american-flying-flag-waving-animated-gif-clr.gif)

(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Xq8QGVAFyoo/USUDWZfCqkI/AAAAAAAAISI/erDbOBHSFXc/s1600/Ringling Bros Barnum and Bailey Circus 2.jpg)

If your description is accurate Bernie is an idiot or just not wanting to rock the boat and afraid to be taken for a goat.  I'll go with idiot.  Perhaps he is weak and not really his own man.  It is a fair question.  I'd have wiped Coopers nose in rhetoric and he'd have regretted trying to play me the way he played Bernie if that is the way it went down.  I can't say much for Bernie letting Cooper disrespect his campaign, beliefs and platform with some harassment 'porn'.

About your second point.  Idiots often label themselves progressives.  Paying too much attention to their stupid answers skews a proper assessment of reality. 

You end with:

Quote
But there is a broad sentiment among academics and students (and many other liberal demographics that socialism will make the system equitable. I think that's highly unlikely. Wrong approach.

When you listen to Slavoj Žižek you may catch him complaining about a decline in Values.  Example being, when we were in our twenties we would have loath to talk about torture as a legitimate military procedure.  Any such discussion would have been met with strong scorn.  It was just plain wrong end of story.  Can we have a debate about rape being legitimate under some circumstances?  ABSOLUTELY NOT!  But can we say it won't be talked about that way in a dozen years?  I hope not but basic values are in decline.

A system being equitable depends on the culture which employs the system being equitable regardless of which system is used.  America is in trouble with many citizens automatons to endless competition and devoid of compassion.  The sickness grows.