Doomstead Diner Menu => Medicine & Health => Topic started by: azozeo on December 06, 2019, 09:46:39 AM

Title: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: azozeo on December 06, 2019, 09:46:39 AM


Medical error is not included on death certificates or in rankings of cause of death. Martin Makary and Michael Daniel assess its contribution to mortality and call for better reporting
By Prof. Martin Makary, Michael Daniel, and Dr. Gary G. Kohls
Global Research, December 04, 2019
The BMJ 3 May 2016

This article was originally published in 2016.

Introduction

“2.6 million people die annually in low-and middle-income countries from medical errors, and that most of those deaths are related to misdiagnosis and administration of pharmaceutical products…Medication errors alone cost an estimated $42 billion (US dollars) annually. Unsafe surgical care procedures cause complications in up to 25% of patients resulting in 1 million deaths during or immediately after surgery annually…Four out of every ten patients are harmed during primary and ambulatory health care. The most detrimental errors are related to diagnosis, prescription and the use of medicines.” — The World Health Organization


https://www.globalresearch.ca/medical-error-third-leading-cause-death-us/5696705 (https://www.globalresearch.ca/medical-error-third-leading-cause-death-us/5696705)
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: Eddie on December 06, 2019, 11:28:44 AM
There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

While I won't argue that plenty of medical mistakes happen, you have to consider that many of the people who die from them are quite sick in the first place, and that 100% of medical patients eventually die of something.

So it isn't a reasonable takeaway here to assume that the best way to stay alive is to completely avoid medical treatment.

 Although I do generally try hard to stay out of hospitals, speaking personally.
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: RE on December 06, 2019, 12:59:59 PM
There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

While I won't argue that plenty of medical mistakes happen, you have to consider that many of the people who die from them are quite sick in the first place, and that 100% of medical patients eventually die of something.

So it isn't a reasonable takeaway here to assume that the best way to stay alive is to completely avoid medical treatment.

 Although I do generally try hard to stay out of hospitals, speaking personally.

While in hospital prior to your visit due to acute anemia (it took 3 units of blood and 3 days of feeding me vitamins to get my blood chemistry back in order), I contracted an infection in my legs which caused me to have to back in for that to be treated.  I didn't die from it obviously, but I wasn't feeling too good those days if you recall.

My current Cripple Helper was born with a deformed hip joint and got a hip replacement in her teens.  She contracted MRSA in hospital and the hip replacement had to be done oer again.  She didn't die either, but spent months on her back.

In both cases also, we both still receive a steady stream of bills from these doctors and hospitals, and she gets harassing phone calls as well.  When called she tells the she can't pay and never will be able to pay, so just stop calling please.  They keep calling anyhow.  She makes $13/hour.  The doctors make $300K a year.

What is wrong with this picture?

RE
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: Eddie on December 06, 2019, 01:30:31 PM
There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

While I won't argue that plenty of medical mistakes happen, you have to consider that many of the people who die from them are quite sick in the first place, and that 100% of medical patients eventually die of something.

So it isn't a reasonable takeaway here to assume that the best way to stay alive is to completely avoid medical treatment.

 Although I do generally try hard to stay out of hospitals, speaking personally.

While in hospital prior to your visit due to acute anemia (it took 3 units of blood and 3 days of feeding me vitamins to get my blood chemistry back in order), I contracted an infection in my legs which caused me to have to back in for that to be treated.  I didn't die from it obviously, but I wasn't feeling too good those days if you recall.

My current Cripple Helper was born with a deformed hip joint and got a hip replacement in her teens.  She contracted MRSA in hospital and the hip replacement had to be done oer again.  She didn't die either, but spent months on her back.

In both cases also, we both still receive a steady stream of bills from these doctors and hospitals, and she gets harassing phone calls as well.  When called she tells the she can't pay and never will be able to pay, so just stop calling please.  They keep calling anyhow.  She makes $13/hour.  The doctors make $300K a year.

What is wrong with this picture?

RE

That you blame nosocomial infections on your doctor? I don't think that one holds any water.

That doctors get paid better than cripple helpers? Cripple helpers don't expect to get doctor pay. You pay her, right? Give her a raise?

 I personally am providing free room and board for a hospice worker, who happens to be my wife's good friend of more than 30 years. I'm not without empathy or caring for underpaid healthcare workers...but as an employer, my payroll is my biggest expense, and it goes up every year. I'm between a rock and hard place.

I won't argue in favor of bill collectors. It's a business niche , like the HOA business, dominated by extreme assholes. I just now had a mortgage company robo call me because my payment that is less than week late hasn't been paid yet.

Fuck 'em.
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: moniker on December 06, 2019, 01:41:32 PM
After about 40 years of suffering, I finally figured out using the web my depression and muscle atrophy were caused by some sort of adrenal dysfunction. Thank you Tim Berners Lee.

I am much better now using magnesium supplements, adaptogens (herbs), meditation, yoga and chakra toning (amazing).

Even when I went to a "top doctor" neurologist and wrote on the intake form I suffered from depression as well as deltoid atrophy that got very serious because my pcp was a crack head, he did not connect my atrophy with my depression.

Notwithstanding some miraculous advances, the western medical model is seriously deficient.
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: RE on December 06, 2019, 01:47:12 PM

That doctors get paid better than cripple helpers? Cripple helpers don't expect to get doctor pay. You pay her, right? Give her a raise?

No, I don't.  I pay an agency $27/hr, and they pay her $13/hr.  I also had to sign an agreement I wouldn't hire any of their workers outside of the agency.  I offered though to pay her $20/hr off the books, but she's new and currently too scared to do that.

I'm not arguing that doctors should be paid the same as cripple helpers..  However, the difference is too extreme.  If you pay a Cripple Helper say $20/hr, on a 5 tier salary scale make the doctor's fees at $100/hr.  About every doctor I see gets at least $600/visit, and if I see him for 15 minutes that's doing good.  Most of the time it's just a PA or NP.

RE
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: AJ on December 06, 2019, 02:43:45 PM
Just had to chime in with a useless opinion.
After professionally dealing with WC insurance carriers for 10 years. I think that the problem is Insurance itself. The amount the insurance industry rakes off of everything medical is obscene. I think Charles Hugh Smith's recent post on this subject hit some of the nails on the head. https://www.oftwominds.com/blogdec19/out-of-control12-19.html (https://www.oftwominds.com/blogdec19/out-of-control12-19.html)
Socialized medicine is the answer. Both Canada and Europe (except UK) seem to have universal healthcare without the impoverishment of the people using it. Sadly doctors don't get to be multi-millionaires in that system but I thought most people went to med school to do good :icon_scratch:
Oh, and I think we should nationalize Big Pharma!!
AJ
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: RE on December 06, 2019, 02:51:24 PM
Socialized medicine is the answer. Both Canada and Europe (except UK) seem to have universal healthcare without the impoverishment of the people using it. Sadly doctors don't get to be multi-millionaires in that system but I thought most people went to med school to do good :icon_scratch:

No Pre-Med I knew at Columbia or taught how to score well on the MCAT while working for The Princeton Review was in it to "do good".  They were in it to 🤑$MAKE MONEY$🤑

RE
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: moniker on December 06, 2019, 03:15:41 PM
Socialized medicine is the answer. Both Canada and Europe (except UK) seem to have universal healthcare without the impoverishment of the people using it. Sadly doctors don't get to be multi-millionaires in that system but I thought most people went to med school to do good :icon_scratch:

No Pre-Med I knew at Columbia or taught how to score well on the MCAT while working for The Princeton Review was in it to "do good".  They were in it to $MAKE MONEY$

RE
Having aced every science course I took through college physics and organic chemistry, I know these people very well. Almost all in it for the $ and ego problems.

But more to the point. After getting an MBA, I interviewed for a finance job a merck. The blue-eyed hr person took me into a HUGE office at Whitehall Station, looked me straight in the eye and said "physical chemistry is what separates the men from the boys".
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: RE on December 06, 2019, 03:35:05 PM
Socialized medicine is the answer. Both Canada and Europe (except UK) seem to have universal healthcare without the impoverishment of the people using it. Sadly doctors don't get to be multi-millionaires in that system but I thought most people went to med school to do good :icon_scratch:

No Pre-Med I knew at Columbia or taught how to score well on the MCAT while working for The Princeton Review was in it to "do good".  They were in it to $MAKE MONEY$

RE
Having aced every science course I took through college physics and organic chemistry, I know these people very well. Almost all in it for the $ and ego problems.

But more to the point. After getting an MBA, I interviewed for a finance job a merck. The blue-eyed hr person took me into HUGE office at Whitehall Station, looked me straight in the eye and said "physical chemistry is what separates the men from the boys".

It has been said that in Greece, you have to separate the Men from the Boys with a Crowbar.  :icon_mrgreen:

RE
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: moniker on December 06, 2019, 04:04:17 PM
If you're suggesting said hr person wanted to get physical with me, I have some stories like that too. But I have two children to think of and don't want to be found floating in the Hudson River. :exp-rolleyes:
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: RE on December 06, 2019, 05:58:19 PM
If you're suggesting said hr person wanted to get physical with me, I have some stories like that too. But I have two children to think of and don't want to be found floating in the Hudson River. :exp-rolleyes:

Just a joke. lol.  A very OLD Joke.

The reality is of course that the Medical Industry needs to be Socialized, it's a Public Service like Teachers, Police, Firemen, Sanitation etc.

It should be paid on something similar to the GS Scale, where you get paid by level and experience.  In my example for instance you have 5 Levels.

L1-Nurses Aides/Cripple Helpers: $20/hr
L2-Technicians/EMTs: $40/hr
L3- Nurses : $60/hr
L4- Nurse Practitioners/Physicians Assistants: $80/hr
L5: Doctors: $100/hr

You could break this down quite a bit more with years of Experience, continuing education credits etc, but the basic idea here is that you don't get this HUGE stratification of wealth currently ongoing, and you reduce the overall costs.

Of COURSE, the Insurance Industry needs to be sent to the Great Beyond as well.

RE
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: moniker on December 06, 2019, 06:36:45 PM
Just a joke. lol.  A very OLD Joke.

The reality is of course that the Medical Industry needs to be Socialized, it's a Public Service like Teachers, Police, Firemen, Sanitation etc.

It should be paid on something similar to the GS Scale, where you get paid by level and experience.  In my example for instance you have 5 Levels.

L1-Nurses Aides/Cripple Helpers: $20/hr
L2-Technicians/EMTs: $40/hr
L3- Nurses : $60/hr
L4- Nurse Practitioners/Physicians Assistants: $80/hr
L5: Doctors: $100/hr

You could break this down quite a bit more with years of Experience, continuing education credits etc, but the basic idea here is that you don't get this HUGE stratification of wealth currently ongoing, and you reduce the overall costs.

Of COURSE, the Insurance Industry needs to be sent to the Great Beyond as well.

RE
Hmm. No offence taken and no need for apologies at all!

A Freudian slip: merck is in whitehouse station not Whitehall. :)
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: RE on December 06, 2019, 07:14:49 PM
Hmm. No offence taken and no need for apologies at all!


Glad to hear that.  My Jokes are often misunderstood.

RE
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: Surly1 on December 07, 2019, 03:02:05 AM
That you blame nosocomial infections on your doctor? I don't think that one holds any water.

The one clear takeaway is to stay out of hospitals if at all possible. It's NOT the docs: hospitals are where the germs are. I have had several major surgeries and consider myself extremely fortunate to not pick up a case of MRSA for my trouble. Maybe that's because surgical theaters are probably the most rigorously sanitized?

Everyone wants someone to blame. But as Eddie points out, death is eventually 100% fatal. Or as the ZH droids have it, channeling Chuck Palahniuk, “On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.”
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: RE on December 07, 2019, 03:34:35 AM
That you blame nosocomial infections on your doctor? I don't think that one holds any water.

The one clear takeaway is to stay out of hospitals if at all possible. It's NOT the docs: hospitals are where the germs are. I have had several major surgeries and consider myself extremely fortunate to not pick up a case of MRSA for my trouble. Maybe that's because surgical theaters are probably the most rigorously sanitized?

Everyone wants someone to blame. But as Eddie points out, death is eventually 100% fatal. Or as the ZH droids have it, channeling Chuck Palahniuk, “On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.”

On this portion of the dispute here, just WHY is it that we have a problem like MRSA?

For those of you do not know, that acronym MRSA means "Multiply Resistant Stafflococus Aurelia".  That's a particular type of bacteria that is very common, and in the old days easily treatable with common antibiotics.

It is not so now.  WHY?  Well, because dumb ass doctors over-prescribe the drugs, and the bacteria have evolved to adapt to that.  I have an absolutely ENORMOUS supply of antibiotics.  You know why?  Because dumb ass doctors give me prescriptions for hundreds of these pills to take 4 times a day, when if I take 1 or 2  a day it does the trick to knock down the infection and then my immune system takes over the work and POOF I am OK again.

Doctors in general are subservient to the pharmaceutical industry and the insurance industry to make their outrageously inflated incomes.  They are the low level criminals in a very large racket.

RE
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: Surly1 on December 07, 2019, 04:07:51 AM

It is not so now.  WHY?  Well, because dumb ass doctors over-prescribe the drugs, and the bacteria have evolved to adapt to that.  I have an absolutely ENORMOUS supply of antibiotics.  You know why?  Because dumb ass doctors give me prescriptions for hundreds of these pills to take 4 times a day, when if I take 1 or 2  a day it does the trick to knock down the infection and then my immune system takes over the work and POOF I am OK again.

Doctors in general are subservient to the pharmaceutical industry and the insurance industry to make their outrageously inflated incomes.  They are the low level criminals in a very large racket.

RE

Your desire to overgeneralize based on your own experience is the intellectual equivalent of the guy at thanksgiving dinner who tells the story about the blinded our welfare queen buying lobster with food stamps, and who insists "he saw it himself." Even though food Stamos don't exist anymore.

there is a perfect logic for stockpiling drugs against the time you want them and can't get them, for whatever reason. I maintain my own war chest. So I wonder why you are complaining.

What you are compiling about is, in RE terms, a "conduit scheme." Remember when if you had problems, you could go see a therapist? Now, you take a pill. the real crime is the pharmacologizing of all aspects of medicine. Blame the Sachlers, not the doctors. Eddie has been very forthcoming about the tribulations of running a small practice. Most docs and dentists I have met try to run a practice and care for patients without much visible second agenda.
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: RE on December 07, 2019, 04:18:06 AM
Most docs and dentists I have met try to run a practice and care for patients without much visible second agenda.

The only agenda I have ever been able to identify with any doctor is to make a lot of money to go golfing or have lots of vacation homes.

RE
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: RE on December 07, 2019, 04:54:47 AM
Hmm. No offence taken and no need for apologies at all!


Glad to hear that.  My Jokes are often misunderstood.

RE
One last time: It has been said that in Greece physical chemistry bonds the men and the boys, and it takes a crowbar to separate them.  :laugh:

Are you sure it's P-Chem and not Orgo?

I HATED P-Chem.  In terms of separating Boys & Men, IMHO it was PDEq.  Partial Differential Equations.  That was the toughest math course I ever took.

RE
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: moniker on December 07, 2019, 05:20:49 AM
The toughest math course I never took was graduate introduction to analysis at the Courant institute. After taking the statistics course for actuaries in the business school they suggested I register that one.

During the first class the guy sitting next to me says I already have a phd in physics but I'm here to learn some more math. I'm like wtf? Our homework assignment was to prove the square root of 2 is irrational. I thought we were actually supposed to figure this out ourselves; so I dropped the course.

Later I found out it's at the beginning of Courant's calculus textbook!
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: knarf on December 07, 2019, 06:20:13 AM
That you blame nosocomial infections on your doctor? I don't think that one holds any water.

The one clear takeaway is to stay out of hospitals if at all possible. It's NOT the docs: hospitals are where the germs are. I have had several major surgeries and consider myself extremely fortunate to not pick up a case of MRSA for my trouble. Maybe that's because surgical theaters are probably the most rigorously sanitized?

Everyone wants someone to blame. But as Eddie points out, death is eventually 100% fatal. Or as the ZH droids have it, channeling Chuck Palahniuk, “On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.”

Almost zero, there is always more space.
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: moniker on December 07, 2019, 06:55:40 AM
Almost zero, there is always more space.
Yep. As has been said before: God created the natural numbers, man created zero.
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: azozeo on December 07, 2019, 09:38:24 AM
What I'd like to know is.....

Eddie, has anyone croaked in your office  :icon_scratch:
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: Eddie on December 07, 2019, 10:09:48 AM
Just had to chime in with a useless opinion.
After professionally dealing with WC insurance carriers for 10 years. I think that the problem is Insurance itself. The amount the insurance industry rakes off of everything medical is obscene. I think Charles Hugh Smith's recent post on this subject hit some of the nails on the head. https://www.oftwominds.com/blogdec19/out-of-control12-19.html (https://www.oftwominds.com/blogdec19/out-of-control12-19.html)
Socialized medicine is the answer. Both Canada and Europe (except UK) seem to have universal healthcare without the impoverishment of the people using it. Sadly doctors don't get to be multi-millionaires in that system but I thought most people went to med school to do good :icon_scratch:
Oh, and I think we should nationalize Big Pharma!!
AJ

Having had the experience of dealing with decent not-for-profit single payer with Medicaid in this state for a number of years before Rick Perry sold out to Big Insurance and gutted a decent functional program.....I can tel lyou that it was MUCH better than the penny-ante bullshit we have with "managed care".

Bring it on.If I could get back what we had ten years ago, I'd work until I was 90.
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: Eddie on December 07, 2019, 10:15:59 AM
That you blame nosocomial infections on your doctor? I don't think that one holds any water.

The one clear takeaway is to stay out of hospitals if at all possible. It's NOT the docs: hospitals are where the germs are. I have had several major surgeries and consider myself extremely fortunate to not pick up a case of MRSA for my trouble. Maybe that's because surgical theaters are probably the most rigorously sanitized?

Everyone wants someone to blame. But as Eddie points out, death is eventually 100% fatal. Or as the ZH droids have it, channeling Chuck Palahniuk, “On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.”

On this portion of the dispute here, just WHY is it that we have a problem like MRSA?

For those of you do not know, that acronym MRSA means "Multiply Resistant Stafflococus Aurelia".  That's a particular type of bacteria that is very common, and in the old days easily treatable with common antibiotics.

It is not so now.  WHY?  Well, because dumb ass doctors over-prescribe the drugs, and the bacteria have evolved to adapt to that.  I have an absolutely ENORMOUS supply of antibiotics.  You know why?  Because dumb ass doctors give me prescriptions for hundreds of these pills to take 4 times a day, when if I take 1 or 2  a day it does the trick to knock down the infection and then my immune system takes over the work and POOF I am OK again.

Doctors in general are subservient to the pharmaceutical industry and the insurance industry to make their outrageously inflated incomes.  They are the low level criminals in a very large racket.

RE

I can't argue with the general thrust of this, because it's true. However.....I do think of it in much the same way I think about Peak Oil.  Nobody knew we'd end up here. Antibiotics were invented a few years before we were born. Lots of good.. Lots of unintended consequences.

As a provider, I can tell you a couple of things.

One is that patients DEMAND antibiotics...and that is  part of it,

Second thing is that antibiotics are still a magic bullet for surgeons that still usually works, in spite of the academic pressure to not prescribe them.
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: Eddie on December 07, 2019, 10:31:44 AM
What I'd like to know is.....

Eddie, has anyone croaked in your office  :icon_scratch:

No but I have had a couple patients have severe seizures. It happened in a cluster, same year, after 20 plus years of no issues at all. I was afraid one of them would die.I had her on the monitor and her heart rate  are was well over 250/bpm.

I work in the operating room too, as you probably remember. I have seen many serious emergencies with kids under general anesthesia, but all of them were handled with great expertise by the docs I work with. My favorite anesthesiologist was a woman.....very gifted and cool under pressure. She got cancer a few years back and slipped away while I wasn't paying attention. I miss her.

I had one kid who died a few days after I did some very minor work on him in the hospital. He was in foster care, so an autopsy was mandatory. The forensic pathologist was never able to determine the cause of death. AFAIK, there will never be a way for me to know whether me putting the kid to sleep to fix his teeth had anything to do with it.

We are required to have a defibrillator now, but I've never had to use mine, Hope I never do.

The typical dental office death is a random heart attack of an older person who has it while getting routine work. That isn't usually anyone's fault.

Pediatric dentists (I am one) as a group.....have killed lots of healthy kids by mismanaging sedations in the office without the right staff training, doctor training, proper protocol, etc. It still happens.

You have to understand though, that pediatric dentists are under a lot of pressure to provide this kind of treatment. Medicaid, for instance, will not pay for general anesthesia in the hospital unless you have tried to do it in office with sedation first and had a "failed sedation". This is extremely stupid policy. and it's all about money.

Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: azozeo on December 07, 2019, 11:04:03 AM
Thanks Eddie....

My mind was on the blood clog type of seizure when asking that question.

Over dosing kids would be scary.

I won't perform hypno-therapy sessions on minors. The worst thing that can happen with my clients is I don't get all
the trash out of the waste basket. I've had left over dark spots that have had to have a second session.
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: RE on December 07, 2019, 11:21:45 AM
Nobody knew we'd end up here. Antibiotics were invented a few years before we were born. Lots of good.. Lots of unintended consequences.

File under "Who cooda node?"

Well, we do know NOW, but you still get ridiculously large prescriptiions for these drugs.

On the other hand, these days it's almost impossible to get a decent pain killer (opioids, generally speaking) prescribed.

The whole industry is for shit.  I can't stand doctors or pharmaceutical companies or insurance companies.  Dentists I have no problems with anymore since I have no teeth left after the botch jobs of a lifetime.

RE
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: azozeo on December 07, 2019, 01:02:18 PM
Nobody knew we'd end up here. Antibiotics were invented a few years before we were born. Lots of good.. Lots of unintended consequences.

File under "Who cooda node?"

Well, we do know NOW, but you still get ridiculously large prescriptiions for these drugs.

On the other hand, these days it's almost impossible to get a decent pain killer (opioids, generally speaking) prescribed.

The whole industry is for shit.  I can't stand doctors or pharmaceutical companies or insurance companies.  Dentists I have no problems with anymore since I have no teeth left after the botch jobs of a lifetime.

RE


My teeth were worked on by a Professor at the School of Dentistry U.S.C. University of Spoiled Children.
Don't get wrong, the man was wonderful with is knowledge. Stellar service. He filled my fucking mouth with "Mercury"
I contracted Ankylosing-Spondilitis "who cooda node" back in the day.
Funny how, that all my teeth are broken or gone, my AS is diminished.

2020 the year of Bionic Teeth for this crazy diamond.

I found a newbie in town, not part of the good ol' boys club, believe it or not. She's young n' hung  :icon_mrgreen:
We gonna' hook up in Jan. I'll have a fistfull of mailbox money so I can come in swingin' with 45's new dictate.

https://www.modernhealthcare.com/patients/trump-administration-unveils-new-price-transparency-rules (https://www.modernhealthcare.com/patients/trump-administration-unveils-new-price-transparency-rules)

I'll let the diners know how I fare with the new doctor.
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: Surly1 on December 07, 2019, 06:19:00 PM
That you blame nosocomial infections on your doctor? I don't think that one holds any water.

The one clear takeaway is to stay out of hospitals if at all possible. It's NOT the docs: hospitals are where the germs are. I have had several major surgeries and consider myself extremely fortunate to not pick up a case of MRSA for my trouble. Maybe that's because surgical theaters are probably the most rigorously sanitized?

Everyone wants someone to blame. But as Eddie points out, death is eventually 100% fatal. Or as the ZH droids have it, channeling Chuck Palahniuk, “On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.”

On this portion of the dispute here, just WHY is it that we have a problem like MRSA?

For those of you do not know, that acronym MRSA means "Multiply Resistant Stafflococus Aurelia".  That's a particular type of bacteria that is very common, and in the old days easily treatable with common antibiotics.

It is not so now.  WHY?  Well, because dumb ass doctors over-prescribe the drugs, and the bacteria have evolved to adapt to that.  I have an absolutely ENORMOUS supply of antibiotics.  You know why?  Because dumb ass doctors give me prescriptions for hundreds of these pills to take 4 times a day, when if I take 1 or 2  a day it does the trick to knock down the infection and then my immune system takes over the work and POOF I am OK again.

Doctors in general are subservient to the pharmaceutical industry and the insurance industry to make their outrageously inflated incomes.  They are the low level criminals in a very large racket.

RE

I can't argue with the general thrust of this, because it's true. However.....I do think of it in much the same way I think about Peak Oil.  Nobody knew we'd end up here. Antibiotics were invented a few years before we were born. Lots of good.. Lots of unintended consequences.

As a provider, I can tell you a couple of things.

One is that patients DEMAND antibiotics...and that is  part of it,

Second thing is that antibiotics are still a magic bullet for surgeons that still usually works, in spite of the academic pressure to not prescribe them.

One other contributing factor are the antibiotics put into livestock feed and the food supply. Plenty of opportunity for those at the top of the food chain to develop antibiotics resistance.
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: RE on December 07, 2019, 10:13:46 PM

One other contributing factor are the antibiotics put into livestock feed and the food supply. Plenty of opportunity for those at the top of the food chain to develop antibiotics resistance.

This does not help the problem either of course.  However, when you cook your meat, along with killing bacteria it also deactivates the antibiotics, for the most part.  The bacteria we are talking about here is Staphlococcus Aurelia, which although it also infects animals is mainly passed between Homo Saps when they are in hospital.  If you just ate meat and cooked it well, probably not much problem although the bacteria would continue to evolve to defend against this.  Thing about single cell organisms is their life cycle is short, there are ZILLIONS of them and so they adapt quite rapidly, relatively speaking.

About the only really surprising thing here is it took as long a it did for something like MRSA to evolve.  On the "who cooda node?" issue, like Peak Oil we have known about evolution and adaptation for quite some time, as long as antibitotics have been around.  But doctors and pharmaceutical companies ignored this problem, because like all Capitalist Pigs, they are just in it to make MONEY.  Sell more pills, make more money.

RE
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: moniker on December 10, 2019, 05:05:06 AM

About the only really surprising thing here is it took as long a it did for something like MRSA to evolve.  On the "who cooda node?" issue, like Peak Oil we have known about evolution and adaptation for quite some time, as long as antibitotics have been around.  But doctors and pharmaceutical companies ignored this problem, because like all Capitalist Pigs, they are just in it to make MONEY.  Sell more pills, make more money.

RE
After you have had some unpleasant experiences with them you begin to realize they have a list of treatments sorted by cost in descending order. Nothing on the bottom of the list is ever recommended.

They love ordering expensive tests and recurring prescriptions. They want to keep you alive but somewhat sick only so they can make more money with you.

I think it may be time to re-read Arrowsmith since all I remember is all the chatter about how much doctors can make and that the protagonist opens a medical practice on Liberty St. in lower Manhattan. How appropriate! Across the street from the former world trade center.
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: RE on December 10, 2019, 10:26:09 AM

About the only really surprising thing here is it took as long a it did for something like MRSA to evolve.  On the "who cooda node?" issue, like Peak Oil we have known about evolution and adaptation for quite some time, as long as antibitotics have been around.  But doctors and pharmaceutical companies ignored this problem, because like all Capitalist Pigs, they are just in it to make MONEY.  Sell more pills, make more money.

RE
After you have had some unpleasant experiences with them you begin to realize they have a list of treatments sorted by cost in descending order. Nothing on the bottom of the list is ever recommended.

They love ordering expensive tests and recurring prescriptions. They want to keep you alive but somewhat sick only so they can make more money with you.

I think it may be time to re-read Arrowsmith since all I remember is all the chatter about how much doctors can make and that the protagonist opens a medical practice on Liberty St. in lower Manhattan. How appropriate! Across the street from the former world trade center.

Every person I knew at Columbia who went on to Med Skule was a money grubbing scumbag.  There may be some ethical doctors out there working for Doctors Without Borders or something, but I never met one.  From my experience, they are all criminals.

RE
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: moniker on December 10, 2019, 02:39:55 PM
Every person I knew at Columbia who went on to Med Skule was a money grubbing scumbag.  There may be some ethical doctors out there working for Doctors Without Borders or something, but I never met one.  From my experience, they are all criminals.

RE
I have unfortunately had more than my share of interactions with them in their offices, socially and in the workplace. Don't ever let them know you have more money than they (not a problem for me) or that you have a higher iq. This puts them in  a very uncomfortable position, and can lead to big problems.
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: RE on December 10, 2019, 03:42:17 PM
Every person I knew at Columbia who went on to Med Skule was a money grubbing scumbag.  There may be some ethical doctors out there working for Doctors Without Borders or something, but I never met one.  From my experience, they are all criminals.

RE
I have unfortunately had more than my share of interactions with them in their offices, socially and in the workplace. Don't ever let them know you have more money than they (not a problem for me) or that you have a higher iq. This puts them in  a very uncomfortable position, and can lead to big problems.

Well, I USED to be polite to them, but now unless they are going to operate on me I am not so nice. lol.  I generally tell off every Doctor, PA or NP I see for diagnostic purpose to get a CAT scan or MRI etc.  I have an appointment Thursday with my "PCP", Primary Care Physician, who I can about guarantee is not a Doctor but rather an NP or PA.  These folkss are COMPLETELY WORTHLESS! They do nothing except take your BP and Temperature, then they refer you to somebody else who is a "Specialist".  It's fucking stupid and a big waste of taxpayer money.  For this, these dimwits get paid around $80-90K up here.  ::)

I am nice to anyone who is going to do surgery on me though.  :icon_sunny:  lol.

RE
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: moniker on December 10, 2019, 04:37:28 PM
These folkss are COMPLETELY WORTHLESS! They do nothing except take your BP and Temperature, then they refer you to somebody else who is a "Specialist".  It's fucking stupid and a big waste of taxpayer money.  For this, these dimwits get paid around $80-90K up here.  ::)
I've moved on from the crack head pcp after an insurance agent told me he's a drug addict, like duh. Since my daughter is currently suing her psychiatrist, I may just use this as motivation to sue this idiot and the others who nearly did me in.
I like my new pcp somewhat since she went out of her way to touch my balls one time. Her NP can't work the mechanical scale, though.
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: RE on December 10, 2019, 05:08:05 PM
These folkss are COMPLETELY WORTHLESS! They do nothing except take your BP and Temperature, then they refer you to somebody else who is a "Specialist".  It's fucking stupid and a big waste of taxpayer money.  For this, these dimwits get paid around $80-90K up here.  ::)
I've moved on from the crack head pcp after an insurance agent told me he's a drug addict, like duh. Since my daughter is currently suing her psychiatrist, I may just use this as motivation to sue this idiot and the others who nearly did me in.
I like my new pcp somewhat since she went out of her way to touch my balls one time. Her NP can't work the mechanical scale, though.

Over 2weeks ago I went in for a CAT scan which my latest PA ordered after seeing me 3 weeks ago.  This to get moving on having a graft done on my femoral arteries.  His word's to me were "Nobody should have to live with this.  We need to get moving on it!"

3 weeks later, he still hasn't evven made the referral to aNEW vascular surgeon.  My old one moved down to the Lower 48.

Tell me this is not malpractice.  ::)

RE
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: azozeo on December 10, 2019, 05:11:09 PM
These folkss are COMPLETELY WORTHLESS! They do nothing except take your BP and Temperature, then they refer you to somebody else who is a "Specialist".  It's fucking stupid and a big waste of taxpayer money.  For this, these dimwits get paid around $80-90K up here.  ::)
I've moved on from the crack head pcp after an insurance agent told me he's a drug addict, like duh. Since my daughter is currently suing her psychiatrist, I may just use this as motivation to sue this idiot and the others who nearly did me in.
I like my new pcp somewhat since she went out of her way to touch my balls one time. Her NP can't work the mechanical scale, though.

Over 2weeks ago I went in for a CAT scan which my latest PA ordered after seeing me 3 weeks ago.  This to get moving on having a graft done on my femoral arteries.  His word's to me were "Nobody should have to live with this.  We need to get moving on it!"

3 weeks later, he still hasn't evven made the referral to aNEW vascular surgeon.  My old one moved down to the Lower 48.

Tell me this is not malpractice.  ::)

RE


Bust out da' lumber. make "jerky"  :coffee:
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: moniker on December 10, 2019, 05:34:57 PM

Over 2weeks ago I went in for a CAT scan which my latest PA ordered after seeing me 3 weeks ago.  This to get moving on having a graft done on my femoral arteries.  His word's to me were "Nobody should have to live with this.  We need to get moving on it!"

3 weeks later, he still hasn't evven made the referral to aNEW vascular surgeon.  My old one moved down to the Lower 48.

Tell me this is not malpractice.  ::)

RE
All kidding aside, I hope you get help with your health problems.

My problem was with psychiatrists and their meds. All I can say is I'm lucky to be alive.
Title: Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
Post by: RE on December 10, 2019, 06:07:55 PM

Over 2weeks ago I went in for a CAT scan which my latest PA ordered after seeing me 3 weeks ago.  This to get moving on having a graft done on my femoral arteries.  His word's to me were "Nobody should have to live with this.  We need to get moving on it!"

3 weeks later, he still hasn't evven made the referral to aNEW vascular surgeon.  My old one moved down to the Lower 48.

Tell me this is not malpractice.  ::)

RE
All kidding aside, I hope you get help with your health problems.

My problem was with psychiatrists and their meds. All I can say is I'm lucky to be alive.

Thanks.  Perhaps eventually, if I am persistent enough and don't die first.

RE