Doomstead Diner Menu => Geopolitics => Topic started by: Eddie on May 01, 2015, 08:16:12 AM

Title: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on May 01, 2015, 08:16:12 AM
Mass migrations appear to me to be the most obvious sign of collapse so far. I heard on the radio this week that walkers and train riders into Texas are down so far this year due to an aggressive US "information campaign" in places like Guatemala, and by increased deportations of refugees by Mexico, which I assume is being heavily coerced to cut them off at the pass.

I was not aware that Iran is fast approaching a critical water shortage, but according to one source, as many as 70% of the population will eventually have to migrate to some other country to find water. No wonder they want nuclear power.

Hat tip to xraymike for posting the link on his blog.

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/04/iran-water-crisis-mass-migration.html# (http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/04/iran-water-crisis-mass-migration.html#)



Title: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on May 25, 2015, 07:13:46 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/fFnOfpIJL0M

The storiez (and photos) of refugees attempting to escape their local collapse scenarios are on an exponential increase.  The Human Tragedy is beyond belief already, and this is just getting started here.

This could be you or me, but we were gifted to be born into the center of the Heart of Darkness, in a time and place where opportunity abounded once upon a time.

Soon enough, some of us Diners will be Refugees also.  Not me though.  I'll buy my ticket to the Great Beyond before that occurs.  I got lucky and rolled a 7 on this one.

I will be creating a Refugee Photo Page on the Blog to chronicle the trials and travails of the massive refugee issue that is developing.

The kickoff story for this from the Heart of the MSM, The New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/26/world/asia/migrants-flooding-into-malaysia-trade-one-nightmare-for-another.html?_r=1).

RE

Migrants Flooding Into Malaysia and Indonesia Trade One Nightmare for Another

Decomposed Remains Found in Malaysia

Forensic experts collected bags of human remains on Monday that were found at the site of mass graves in northern Malaysia.

By Reuters on Publish Date May 25, 2015.

GELUGOR, Malaysia — The more than 3,000 migrants from Bangladesh and Myanmar who recently landed in Indonesia and Malaysia ended weeks of a nightmare at sea only to fall into an administrative limbo that could last years, even decades.

In a potential breakthrough in a crisis across Southeast Asia, Malaysia and Indonesia agreed last week to shelter the migrants, and thousands more who may still be at sea, on the condition that they be returned home or resettled in third countries within a year.

If the past is any guide, that goal may be hard to attain.

Even for those who qualify as refugees deserving asylum, few countries seem willing to accept them; there is already a tremendous backlog of applicants seeking resettlement; and the agencies that deal with them are overwhelmed.

“Even if we get the U.N. refugee status, we still don’t know how long we must wait before we can be resettled,” said Hasinah Ezahar, 28, who survived illness, hunger and threats from the smugglers she paid for the three-week sea journey with three of her children from western Myanmar. “Until then, our lives are just waiting.”

Photo

 

Rohingya migrants at a temporary shelter in Bayeun, Indonesia, on Monday, part of a wave of migrants in the last two weeks. Credit Sergey Ponomarev for The New York Times

Her family was part of a wave of migrants from Bangladesh and Myanmar who took to the seas seeking to escape poverty and, in the case of ethnic Rohingya like Ms. Hasinah, religious persecution.

As well, at least 200,000 Rohingya migrants from Myanmar are already in Bangladesh, and only 32,600 of them have been granted formal protection as refugees fleeing persecution, according to the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees. Far fewer, perhaps only several hundred, have been resettled from refugee camps in Bangladesh over the past decade and allowed to begin new lives in other countries.

In Malaysia, those determined to be refugees and therefore eligible for resettlement, a process than could take years, would be joining more than 45,000 Rohingya who are already classified as refugees and are waiting to be taken in by another country. They receive no government aid while they wait, nor can they legally take jobs to support themselves.

About 1,000 Rohingya refugees were resettled in the United States in the last year.

“It’s a bit of a dirty little secret, but that population going to the U.S. is largely people in Malaysia who have been awaiting resettlement for 10 to 15 years,” said Amy Smith, an executive director of Fortify Rights, a human rights group focusing on Southeast Asia.

Continue reading the main story

How Myanmar and Its Neighbors Are Responding to the Rohingya Crisis

Myanmar and its neighbors see the people of the Rohingya ethnic group and the seaborne trafficking of migrants in the region very differently, complicating the refugees’ plight.

 

While the refugees wait, they cannot send their children to government-accredited schools and are suspended in a social and legal limbo that local charities and off-the-books jobs can only partly relieve.

“It’s very frustrating for us,” said Anwar Ahmad, a Rohingya who has lived in Malaysia for 18 years and makes a living in the informal labor market. “We’re grateful that we can stay here, and grateful for the help we receive, but without a stronger official status, I have no future here in Malaysia.”

Even the first step in that process, winning recognition as refugees through the United Nations refugee agency, has become forbiddingly slow, said Rohingya migrants, human rights advocates and lawyers.

“I think the U.N.H.C.R. is also a bit overwhelmed with the numbers, especially so many who have been here for many, many years have not been resettled yet,” said Kamarulzaman Askandar, a professor at the University of Malaysia Sabah, who has studied the conditions of Rohingya in Malaysia. “The numbers keep increasing and increasing. Many of the newcomers, especially, are not being registered even after a few months of coming over here.”

Ms. Smith, of Fortify Rights, said the refugee agency gave priority to those held in detention. About 1,000 recent arrivals are housed in the Belantik immigration detention depot in Kedah State in northern Malaysia. (The depot declined requests for a reporter from The New York Times to enter.)

Photo

 

An improvised hospital in Indonesia. More than 3,000 migrants from Bangladesh and Myanmar have landed in Indonesia and Malaysia in the last two weeks. Credit Sergey Ponomarev for The New York Times

Those detainees, she said, might have their cases decided in seven to nine months. The others will wait even longer.

The classification process will not necessarily end well for most of the migrants. Migration experts say about half of the latest wave are economic migrants from Bangladesh who do not meet the requirements for refugee status.

They will be sent home as soon as possible, the Malaysian and Indonesian governments say, where their government may not welcome them with open arms.

Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina of Bangladesh on Sunday called the migrants “mentally sick” people who harmed the country’s image, and said they would be punished along with their traffickers, the official Bangladesh Sangbad Sangstha news agency reported.

The Rohingya, a stateless Muslim people who have long faced discrimination and been deprived of basic rights in Myanmar, are likely to meet the criteria for refugee status under international law, namely having “a well-founded fear” of persecution for reasons of race, religion or nationality in their home country. They would be entitled to be resettled in third countries, and the United States said last week that it would take a leading role in any multicountry resettlement effort led by the United Nations refugee agency.

Photo

 

Rohingya men praying at their temporary shelter in Indonesia. Malaysia and Indonesia said they would shelter the migrants until they are returned home or resettled in third countries. Credit Sergey Ponomarev for The New York Times

Such an effort, however, has yet to materialize.

According to the agreement hammered out last week by the foreign ministers of Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia, none of those countries agreed to host any refugees permanently.

Australia’s prime minister, Tony Abbott, said Thursday that his country would not take any refugees from the current exodus.

Gambia said last week that it would take in all the Rohingya boat people, but experts questioned whether the West African state, whose own citizens have joined the deadly migration across the Mediterranean to Europe, had the capacity.

Europe has its own migration crisis, as more than 1,700 migrants from Africa and the Middle East have died trying to enter Europe by sea in the first four months of this year, and more than 26,000 have landed.

Photo

 

A Rohingya woman and her child in an alley in the suburbs of Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. While migrants wait for their refugee status to be determined in Malaysia, they are not allowed to work or send their children to conventional schools. Credit Mohd Rasfan/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images

“It’s going to be really hard,” said Phil Robertson, deputy Asia director of Human Rights Watch. “You have to have a number of governments say we will take quite a few Rohingya, but we haven’t seen that in the past.”

Decades in limbo is not an uncommon fate for refugees. Somali refugees have endured in a camp in Kenya for more than 20 years, while generations of Palestinians have lived in camps in the Middle East since the 1948 Arab-Israeli war.

Many of the refugees here are likely to join Malaysia’s swelling underclass of Rohingya refugees.

The United Nations refugee agency says 45,910 Rohingya were registered in Malaysia before the latest influx. Richard Towle, the agency’s representative in Malaysia, estimates that there are an additional 30,000 or more Rohingya who are not registered, either because their applications have not been processed or because they had not tried to register.

The Rohingya refugees here say that Malaysia has treated them better than neighboring countries, but that their lives are circumscribed by the ban on work and schools, and by the difficulty in obtaining other permits for everyday needs.

Photo

 

Rohingya refugees from Myanmar at the refugee camp in Langsa, Indonesia. Even for those who qualify as refugees deserving asylum, few countries seem willing to accept them. Credit Sergey Ponomarev for The New York Times

“The most difficult thing is because the government law says we cannot work,” said Sahid Mohammed, a Rohingya man who fled his village in 2009 and made the trip to Malaysia by sea. He and other refugees said they made an uncertain living by working informally on building sites, in restaurants and shops, and by recycling scrap and hawking small goods.

“We would like to work to make a contribution, and to send money to our families, but we cannot keep good jobs because the bosses look at our cards and say, ‘You’re not allowed to work for me,’ ” he said. “Some bosses use that to exploit Rohingya, because they know we are working without real status.”

Mr. Towle said: “Given global priorities and the size of the problem here you are not going to be able to resettle your way out of a refugee problem of this size. It’s not feasible. We think that if people are going to be here anyway we think it is good to regularize their status and give them the right to work.”

Rohingya children in Malaysia attend privately run schools, often supported by volunteers, or they do not go to school at all.

“Some of the children work as well,” said Dewi Karina Kamarulzaman, a graduate student who teaches at the Peace Learning Center, a makeshift school in a two-story home here on Penang Island with more than 50 Rohingya children.

She estimated that more than half of Rohingya children in Penang did not attend school, often for lack of transportation. “They can’t even afford the bus fare,” she said.

Ms. Hasinah, who is living with her husband and the three children in a single room in a shared house, has a more pressing concern: a 13-year-old son she left behind because she could not afford to pay the smugglers to take all four children.

Her family’s most urgent priority is finding the means and the money to bring him to Malaysia.

“Wherever we go,” she said, cradling her 2-year-old daughter, “it must be with my son.”

Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on May 25, 2015, 08:02:38 PM
The Rohingyas in Myanmar are Muslims being persuted by Buddhists, with Buddhist monks leading the mob, but with the clear backing of the Government and the angelic Aung San Suu Kyi.  I thought Buddhists were supposed to be nice people.

Aung San Suu Kyi is the Oxford-educated daughter of Myanmar's (then Burma) Prime Minister, who negotiated Burma's independence and was then assassinated along with five other Ministers in 1947.  She has been a UK/US pawn ever since, hence the Congressional Medal of Honour and the Nobel Peace Prize and numerous UN interventions - anything to break Myanmar away from China and into western clutches.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on May 25, 2015, 08:52:29 PM
I thought Buddhists were supposed to be nice people.

Buddhists suffer the same problem Christians do, which is that they are PEOPLE.

When their own survival is threatened, they'll take action to try to prevent it.  They tend to be more unique in the way they do this in some cases.

(http://i.gyazo.com/be3868681531b2b0264988f9169e3f3a.gif)

RE
Title: Arab spring prompts biggest migrant wave since second world war
Post by: RE on June 06, 2015, 12:56:40 PM
Europe getting inundated with Refugees from MENA.

RE

Arab spring prompts biggest migrant wave since second world war (http://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2015/jan/03/arab-spring-migrant-wave-instability-war)

Migrants fleeing the Middle East and north Africa are already risking everything as they try to escape war at home

(http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-620/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/1/3/1420297775579/Ezadeen-ship-008.jpg)
A man waits as the cargo ship Ezadeen, carrying hundreds of migrants, arrives at the southern Italian port of Corigliano. Photograph: Antonino D'Urso/AP

Patrick Kingsley in Cairo

Saturday 3 January 2015 15.42 EST
Last modified on Saturday 3 January 2015 19.08 EST

The two “ghost ships” discovered sailing towards the Italian coast last week with hundreds of migrants – but no crew – on board are just the latest symptom of what experts consider to be the world’s largest wave of mass-migration since the end of the second world war.

Wars in Syria, Libya and Iraq, severe repression in Eritrea, and spiralling instability across much of the Arab world have all contributed to the displacement of around 16.7 million refugees worldwide.

A further 33.3 million people are “internally displaced” within their own war-torn countries, forcing many of those originally from the Middle East to cross the lesser evil of the Mediterranean in increasingly dangerous ways, all in the distant hope of a better life in Europe.

“These numbers are unprecedented,” said Leonard Doyle, spokesman for the International Organisation for Migration. “In terms of refugees and migrants, nothing has been seen like this since world war two, and even then [the flow of migration] was in the opposite direction.”

European politicians believe they can discourage migrants from crossing the Mediterranean simply by reducing rescue operations. But refugees say that the scale of unrest in the Middle East, including in the countries in which they initially sought sanctuary, leaves them with no option but to take their chances at sea.

More than 45,000 migrants risked their lives crossing the Mediterranean to reach Italy and Malta in 2013, and 700 died doing so. The number of dead rose more than four times in 2014 to 3,224.

“We know people who died – they used to live with us,” said Qassim, a Syrian refugee in Egypt who now wants to reach Europe. “But we will try again to cross the sea because there’s no life for us Syrians here.”

In Egypt, up to 300,000 refugees from the Syrian war were initially welcomed with open arms. But after Cairo’s sudden regime change in summer 2013, the atmosphere turned drastically, leading to rampant xenophobia against Syrians and increased arrests and detentions of those who, for understandable reasons, did not carry the correct residency paperwork.

The situation is even worse in Jordan and in Lebanon, which now houses more than 1 million Syrian refugees – more than a fifth of the country’s total population.

Their presence has created an unprecedented strain on national resources, leading to the Lebanese government tightening restrictions last week on Syrians entering the country. And while Turkey has simultaneously moved to strengthen refugees’ rights, Turkish shores are likely to remain a popular launch pad for migrants looking to reach Europe because of both the comparatively high cost of living, as well as rising xenophobia, particularly in the country’s south.

Libya, another major point on the migration route from the Middle East and north Africa, is also no longer a safe haven after a civil war erupted there last year. The plight of refugees there, as well as across the region, makes a mockery of those who suggest the wave of migration is caused simply by economic migrants.

“If they’re economic migrants,” asked Doyle, “then how do we explain that after every outbreak of violence and repression we get a new wave of people from the area that’s just had that outbreak? Why was it that, in the huge September disaster in the Mediterranean, the people who drowned were Palestinians, just a couple of weeks after the war between Gaza and Israel? And why is it that since last year there has been a steady flow of people from Eritrea, when we know there are serious problems in that country?”

But such arguments have yet to convince the British government, which refused last October to help Mediterranean rescue operations, and which by last June had admitted fewer than 150 Syrian refugees.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on June 08, 2015, 04:04:11 PM
(http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/the_slatest/2015/06/05/wip_150605/150605_WIP_12.jpg.CROP.original-original.jpg)
Migrants, who were found at sea on a boat, collect water during a heavy rain at a temporary refuge camp near Kanyin Chaung jetty, Myanmar, on June 4, 2015.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on June 15, 2015, 06:42:04 AM
Italy is starting to sound a bit like Greece - fed up with EU.

http://rt.com/news/267160-italy-migrants-eu-problem/ (http://rt.com/news/267160-italy-migrants-eu-problem/)
Italy threatens EU: 'Sort out migrant mess you caused or get hurt’
June 15, 2015

Rome has warned of retaliatory measures unless the EU changes its asylum policies to make them more in “solidarity” with Italy, which continues to struggle with an enormous inflow of mostly North African migrants.

“If the European Council chooses solidarity, then good. If it doesn’t, we have a Plan B ready but that would be a wound inflicted on Europe,” Prime Minister Matteo Renzi said, without elaborating on the details.

Italy which has been bearing the brunt of North African refugees is calling on Brussels to amend the Dublin regulations, which assign most asylum seekers to their port of entry in the EU. The states have yet to reach a consensus on a migrant distribution plan, which seeks to relocate some 24,000 refugees across the 28-member countries.

Under the proposal, redistribution would be based on a quota system taking into account the size of a country’s population, the state of its economy, and its unemployment level.

The crisis “should not be underestimated,” Renzi said in an interview with Milan’s Corriere della Sera daily. “Redistributing just 24,000 people is almost a provocation,” he said. Over 57,000 migrants have entered Italy during the first half of this year alone.

Most migrants come from Libya, where two rival governments are fighting for power after the fall of the Gaddafi regime – with the aid of a bombing campaign by European NATO powers. Renzi says the EU must take "responsibility in light of the intervention four years ago."

Rome wants the EU to come up with repatriation deals with African states as well as share the cost of returning illegals to their countries of origin.

“If Europe does not fulfill its own responsibilities and show solidarity, it will find a different Italy facing it,” Interior Minister Angelino Alfano warned Sunday. “Europe, signing as Europe, has to sign repatriation agreements with all the African countries.”

“I will say with great clarity: Kids, either we do equal distribution of migrants in Europe, or we organize refugee camps in Libya, or we organize a serious policy of repatriation,” Alfano told Sky TG24.

The matter is being made worse by Italy’s neighbors, who are reluctant to allow or keep migrants on their turf. Despite the fact the Schengen treaty allows free cross-border movement, France, Austria and Switzerland have refused to allow migrants in, sending them back to Italy.

In the latest effort to accommodate those sent back, tents were set up with the help of the Italian Red Cross and local authorities to house around 100 migrants in a camp near Rome’s Tiburtina station.

Many of those camping out were prevented from entering France after French police blocked border crossings last week. Many have been stopped at the Austrian border near the town of Bolzano. Austrian police announced on Sunday that 24 African migrants arrested while trying to get to Germany by train will be returned to Italy. In Switzerland, border police announced that 240 migrants were sent back to Italy over the weekend.

“The halt to Schengen for a few days is holding them up here but Italy isn't their destination,” Renzi said.
Title: Greece – The Refugee Crisis and the Horror of Europe
Post by: RE on August 02, 2015, 11:09:12 PM
Only 65M Million?  Chump Change.

Wait until it's 1B.

Then it's "WORLD! WORLD! We've got a Problem!  This is IT!"

RE

Greece – The Refugee Crisis and the Horror of Europe
(http://www.globalresearch.ca/greece-the-refugee-crisis-and-the-horror-of-europe/5466130)
By Peter Koenig
Global Research, July 31, 2015
Region: Europe
Theme: Police State & Civil Rights, Poverty & Social Inequality

A voice from Hellas, Greece. According to UNHCR about 50 million refugees are on the move every day on our globe. This is most likely an understatement, as this figure doesn’t take into account what takes place in the almost hermetically closed-off Central Africa, Congo, Zaïre, where western corporations are exploiting for a pittance and with millions of slaves precious metals, uranium, hydrocarbons and rare earths – and where millions have died over the past ten years, by butcher regimes supported and armed by the west – and where millions are on the run.

The real figure of refugees on the run is easily 60 to 65 million; forced migrants in temporary camps, in transit to nowhere and under the most horrible human and abject hygienic conditions, no running water, hardly any medical attention, sparse food if any. At least a quarter of them originate in the Middle East.

And most, if not all of these tens of millions, are fleeing countries destroyed directly or by proxy by the US empire and its European vassals. They try to escape as their homes have been burned to the ground, their families in many cases decimated. They are under constant threat of being bombed, by the ISIS and sorts, all fully funded by Washington, the EU, Turkey, the Saudis, Qatar – and militarily supported and trained by the CIA, Pentagon and NATO. This is not new. It has been known for years. But known to whom? The truth does still not penetrate the brain of most people. – Why? – Because the west is totally brainwashed with lies and distortions by its own corporate presstitute media.

I fully subscribe to Andre Vltchek’s  plea to the world – we must demand that at least public places like airports, railway stations, hotel lobbies switch channels from the bought rightwing, CNNs and BBCs of this world –to TeleSUR, CCTV, PressTV, RT and other emerging truth news channels. People must wake up. A growth swell of truth must engulf our western society – if we have any chance to be salvaged from ourselves.

When people are confused and ask in desperation – how to stop this flow of refugees? – The answer is simple:

stop the wars and conflicts, stop NATO; and for those who are NATO members like Greece and Turkey – quit NATO! – Stop the eternal war machine; stop the western business of killing – launch truth news against the propaganda lies, destroy them economically…

Yes you can! – boycott western economies. Join the peaceful eastern economies – the alliances of the BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) and the SCO (Shanghai Cooperation Organization), consisting of Russia, China and most of the Central Asian States, as well as the EEU (Eurasian Economic Union) with their new financial development institutions, the AIIB (the new Chinese-funded Asian Infrastructure and Investment Bank), as well as the NDB (the BRICS’ New Development Bank).

Today TeleSUR reports that Javier Couso, a member of the European Parliament from the Spanish United Left, was threatened with death for admonishing the EU for slandering Venezuela, for defending the truth about Venezuela! – At the same time it is reported that Greece’s PM Tsipras, traitor not only of the Greek people, but of all of Europeans who strive to be free, is poised to sell the elite of the so-called ‘creditors’ (sic) – the troika – 1,200 of the Greek islands, as a fraction for paying off illegal debt! – Yes, totally illegal, as all contracts concluded under duress and corruption, as is the case with almost all of Greek’s debt – are void, null, illegal; and would be declared as such by any just international Court of Justice – if there is still something left like a just court of justice – that has not been corrupted by the west, or worse, whose judges are not yet coerced and threatened with their life if they deviate from the western norms and wants, irrespective of whether the law would stand behind them.

Dear Reader, this is as far as we have fallen since the ascent of neoliberalism in the last twenty-some years. No ethics, no moral, no law, just coercion for greed and ultimate hegemony – enslavement of the people while and after they are lulled and dulled with lies 24/7.

Dear Reader, dear Citizen of this World, dear Souls, Friends, Comrades – wake up! Wake up for your own sake, but also for the sake of solidarity and for the salvation of our planet, of our humanity! – There must be something badly wrong, if an EU parliamentarian who defends and proclaims the truth about a socialist country, Venezuela, which is denigrated, slandered and lied upon by the very European Commission, for propaganda and defeat – and the looting of its resources – if a representative of their own is threatened to death for telling the truth!

Friends – of this globe – there is something terribly wrong, if Greece, a member and brother of the very European Union, is forced to sell off its pristine islands to robbers, thieves, murderers, represented by entire governments and an assembly of governments called the EU! – Can you imagine! Selling your islands! – selling part of your country to settle illegal debt? – People, please wake up. Stop these crimes. NOW. – How? – By taking to the streets, by disobedience, by unlimited strikes, by staying home instead of going to work, by no more traveling, flying, no more consuming. Do whatever it takes to suffocate this killing system. – You are not lost. There is the East with another mindset, with peace and equality as an objective, with an alternative economic scheme, not based on destruction and dominance.

All the southern European countries that are being lynched to death by the world’s most horrendously deadly financial guns – the Zionist-run Wall Street and European banksters – would be more than welcome in this alliance that comprises more than 50% of the world population and controls more than one third of the globe’s economic output. Why accept the Washington-EU dictated financial waterboarding of the west? Economic terror – outright economic fascism? – Nobody needs the west. It’s an obsolete sinking ship.

People don’t know it. They are confused when they are told that the refugees – the endless and steadily growing flood of refugees – are the direct result of western destructive interventions in these peoples’ home countries – destroying not only their families, homes and employment – but also their hope for a decent life – their sense of living – not even living well, god forbid, just living a decent life, with food on the table, medical care and free education for their children; they had lives with rich cultures before the western killing machine destroyed their livelihoods for greed and hegemony. That’s what the West doesn’t know, because no presstitute media talks about it.

Greece is perhaps number one in receiving involuntary migrants, so called paperless refugees. At best (or worst) Greece and Italy compete for number one. But hardly anybody talks or writes about Greek refugees. – Why? – Because the western media, prostitutes to the western powers, cannot on the one hand help to financially strangle Greece to death, while also admitting that Greece, despite all its own misery still is a country with a sense of solidarity receiving thousands of refugees every day- so-called illegal immigrants, coming from countries illegally destroyed by the very west, mostly northern EU nations, Germany, France, UK, Netherlands, Belgium – the most vicious allies of Washington that refuses the most minimal shelter to those plundered and deprived souls, deprived by the west’s fascist war economies.

Greece and the refugees –most of them come from Turkey; many through Bodrum to the Greek Islands of Kos, Lesbos and Samos. Turkey is a hub – a sad hub – for about 2 million refugees, most of them, from Syria. Turkey has spent about 6 billion dollars for building and maintaining refugee camps. But, at the same time Turkey is in full connivance with Washington and the Saudis in funding the Jihadists, ISIS and whatever other pseudonyms they are given – to destroy Syria – to cause the flood of misery. Turkey is a shame.

Kos island hosts some 500-700 paperless migrants, in transit – in transit to where? – Some to Athens to refugee camps, some dream of going to Germany, France, Italy – they have no clue how unwelcome they are in those countries that helped destroy their homelands. In Kos, some 500 refugees from Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Nigeria, Sudan – live in an abandoned hotel “Captain Elias”. It is the epitome of misery; lack of hygiene, food, medical services – some volunteers come three times a week to help them clean the place, distribute food – a medical doctor shows up maybe once a week. The Greeks do what they can with their strangled economy.

Yesterday morning a little Iraqi boy of three years, let’s call him Tariq, has been found in a park in Kos, with his father. The boy has cancer – what doctors diagnose may be ‘terminal’. With the help of volunteer, Georgia, the boy was immediately delivered to the only local public hospital, where adequate treatment for his case cannot be obtained.  If there is the slightest chance to save him, he will be airlifted to a northern European city, where all will be done to save him. Georgia and her friend Hara are accompanying this boy with all their heart and attention. May this be a sign of solidarity – a cry to open the eyes of Europe, that there is more to our human civilization than war, greed and destruction. There is a little human life to be saved – a symbol of our own fragile lives.

Peter Koenig is an economist and geopolitical analyst. He is also a former World Bank staff and worked extensively around the world in the fields of environment and water resources. He writes regularly for Global Research, ICH, RT, Sputnik News, TeleSur, The Vineyard of The Saker Blog, and other internet sites. He is the author of Implosion – An Economic Thriller about War, Environmental Destruction and Corporate Greed – fiction based on facts and on 30 years of World Bank experience around the globe. He is also a co-author of The World Order and Revolution! – Essays from the Resistance.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: MKing on August 03, 2015, 06:51:01 AM
The Rohingyas in Myanmar are Muslims being persuted by Buddhists, with Buddhist monks leading the mob, but with the clear backing of the Government and the angelic Aung San Suu Kyi.  I thought Buddhists were supposed to be nice people.

Religion is religion. Built into their DNA is the concept of US VERSUS THEM, and all it takes from there for them to become their normal, racist, fear of change and human hating selves is for someone to tell them that over THERE are the THEM. And off to the races we go with machetes or rockets or smart bombs or whatever happens to be handy.

There are plenty of nice people, but when they buy into the big bearded man in the sky telling them it is okay to discriminate against everyone who's big man in the sky has a mustache instead of a beard, well, out come the hatchets.

Title: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
Post by: Guest on August 14, 2015, 02:11:16 AM


Off the keyboard of Tom Lewis



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Published on The Daily Impact on August 12, 2015



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refugees-greek-sea



Can you imagine what it would take for you to take your family on a vessel like this to cross an angry sea to a foreign country, just to stay alive? This boat is bound for a Greek island from North Africa.



Discuss this article at the Environment Table inside the Diner



One of the most desperate and destructive diasporas in history is rolling out of the parched regions of Africa and the Middle East, over Europe, toward extinction. They are being called refugees from war, but the wars they are fleeing have their origins in the desperation of people who have no food, and they have no food because of the savage droughts being inflicted on their countries by global climate change. Hence, it is perfectly legitimate, and more importantly it is honest, to call them climate refugees.



(Among all 423 current candidates for US President, only Martin O’Malley demonstrated a grasp of this reality when he said that climate change is responsible for the rise of ISIS. He was almost universally ridiculed for saying it, and this tiny, lonely spark of sense fell on wet ground and was instantly extinguished.)



In just the latest ramification of the new Dark Age advancing on Europe, 1,000 Afghan and Syrian refugees who had made their way to the Greek Island of Kos were rounded up by riot police yesterday (after having been herded with fire extinguishers) and imprisoned in an open stadium until they could be “registered.” At last report there were three — count them, three — officers taking names. It is not that the authorities are heartless, they are overwhelmed. Those 1,000 refugees are not all the refugees on Kos, that is how many refugees arrive every day. “The situation on the island is out of control,” said the mayor of Kos, “blood will be shed.”



“Greece faces a crisis within a crisis,” said prime minister Alexis Tsipras. “The migrant flows exceed the capacity of our state infrastructure.” About 120,000 refugees have stumbled ashore on the Greek Islands so far this year, four times the influx during all of 2014. The other principal landing for refugees traveling to Europe by boat, Italy, estimates that 100,000 have come aground there this year.



Imagine that you have lost your job, been served with an eviction notice, lost your car to the repo man and 20 of your closest relatives arrive on your doorstep in search of food and shelter. That’s that’s going on here. Neither these countries, nor the United Nations, nor the NGOs operating in the area, can possibly handle this rip tide of human misery.  Nor is it limited to Greece and Italy. Let’s take a brief tour:



Hungary is rushing to complete a 110-mile-long fence along its border with Serbia to stem the flow of mostly Syrian refugees — 2,000 in 2012, now 1,500 people per day —  seeking asylum in a European Union country so they can travel freely among the other EU members.



Germany is the Mecca for most of these refugees, who are fully aware of the desperate economic straits of countries such as Greece and Italy. Germany is expecting 450,000 refugees this year, double the amount of last year, and the resulting tensions are rising. So far this year there have been 150 attacks on refugee shelters, most of them attempts to burn the shelters down. When the flood of refugees overwhelmed existing camps, the government called in the army to help, a move that inflamed those who insist that any use of the army inside the country is unconstitutional.



Across Italy, increasingly violent protests are breaking out over the strains produced by the relentless onslaught of the destitute. The mayor of Rome said this week the city does not have the resources to take in any more refugees. The wealthier northern districts of Italy, called on to help by taking some of the influx, refused. Meanwhile, the Italian coast guard last weekend rescued at sea and brought ashore another 1,800 people (so far this year an estimated 2,000 refugees have died at sea).   



The first tendrils of this massive onslaught of humanity have reached England, and have convulsed the country’s politics. The prime minister speaks of a “swarm” and the foreign secretary says “millions of marauding Africans” threaten the standard of living, and must be returned to their home countries, and their own standards of living. The reality underlying this panic is that a few thousand refugees, having reached Calais on the west coast of France, have tried to walk or hitch rides through the English Channel Tunnel to England. So far, one has made it, only to be arrested at the exit. Now thanks to a mile long fence at the Calais entrance to the Chunnel, and some nasty camps of hovels for the refugees who make it that far, fewer are able to make the attempt. But the extra security has choked travel through the Chunnel, negatively impacting commerce and tourism.



Still, the bleak tide rises. Still Europe sinks beneath it as the desert sands spread from Africa to Arabia to Asia. Still, no one offers a solution, for the terrifying reason that no one has yet identified the problem.  


Title: Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
Post by: Surly1 on August 14, 2015, 03:35:54 AM
How can you read this story and not think of Alberto Cuaron's "Children of Men?"

We're creating the conditions for the dystopian world Cuaron created even as we speak.

http://www.youtube.com/v/YlTDUITiDcg
Title: Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
Post by: RE on August 14, 2015, 03:45:08 AM
How can you read this story and not think of Alberto Cuaron's "Children of Men?"

CoM indeed.

In fair short order I think, people arriving on the shores of Italy and Greece in these boats will be shot on arrival.  They don't have the resources to feed their own populations, much less feed all the people migrating from already unsustainable locations in MENA.

This is going to get very ugly.

RE
Title: Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
Post by: Mercury on August 14, 2015, 06:58:08 AM
It's sad to see my home island befall such a fate. Kos is a beautiful place that is surely turning into a living hell. But the writing was on the wall 15 years ago when I left her shores, myself an economic refugee, in search of a better tomorrow. A few years earlier still I remember hearing a local professor warn that by 2020 the population of Greece would be 20 million. Half of them refugees fleeing from a war and climate ravaged MENA and that exposed regions like the Aegean Islands would bear the brunt of it. How prophetic ring his words now.
Title: Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
Post by: RE on August 14, 2015, 09:11:23 AM
It's sad to see my home island befall such a fate. Kos is a beautiful place that is surely turning into a living hell. But the writing was on the wall 15 years ago when I left her shores, myself an economic refugee, in search of a better tomorrow. A few years earlier still I remember hearing a local professor warn that by 2020 the population of Greece would be 20 million. Half of them refugees fleeing from a war and climate ravaged MENA and that exposed regions like the Aegean Islands would bear the brunt of it. How prophetic ring his words now.

You can consider yourself fortunate.  15 years ago there was still somewhere to flee to for a Better Tomorrow.

Now there is nowhere to run to, nowhere to hide.

RE
Title: Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
Post by: Surly1 on August 14, 2015, 09:14:41 AM
How can you read this story and not think of Alberto Cuaron's "Children of Men?"

CoM indeed.

In fair short order I think, people arriving on the shores of Italy and Greece in these boats will be shot on arrival.  They don't have the resources to feed their own populations, much less feed all the people migrating from already unsustainable locations in MENA.

This is going to get very ugly.

RE

I recall the shots of all the people in "camps" behind hurricane fencing. And you wonder what could have transpired to get them there.

This.
Title: Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
Post by: Mercury on August 14, 2015, 02:34:05 PM
It's sad to see my home island befall such a fate. Kos is a beautiful place that is surely turning into a living hell. But the writing was on the wall 15 years ago when I left her shores, myself an economic refugee, in search of a better tomorrow. A few years earlier still I remember hearing a local professor warn that by 2020 the population of Greece would be 20 million. Half of them refugees fleeing from a war and climate ravaged MENA and that exposed regions like the Aegean Islands would bear the brunt of it. How prophetic ring his words now.

You can consider yourself fortunate.  15 years ago there was still somewhere to flee to for a Better Tomorrow.

Now there is nowhere to run to, nowhere to hide.

RE

True, I have been fortunate since then until now. But it's difficult when your homeland is ground zero.
Title: Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
Post by: MKing on August 14, 2015, 02:39:26 PM
It's sad to see my home island befall such a fate. Kos is a beautiful place that is surely turning into a living hell. But the writing was on the wall 15 years ago when I left her shores, myself an economic refugee, in search of a better tomorrow. A few years earlier still I remember hearing a local professor warn that by 2020 the population of Greece would be 20 million. Half of them refugees fleeing from a war and climate ravaged MENA and that exposed regions like the Aegean Islands would bear the brunt of it. How prophetic ring his words now.

You can consider yourself fortunate.  15 years ago there was still somewhere to flee to for a Better Tomorrow.

Now there is nowhere to run to, nowhere to hide.

RE

True, I have been fortunate since then until now. But it's difficult when your homeland is ground zero and your relatives can't get out.

Just be glad that you didn't bring their failings with you. As far as nowhere to run or hide, of course there is. For some it is Alaska, for others places in Central America, you can hide in plan sight in America, and even get ahead if you bring with you from a foreign land something many Americans lack nowadays, which is an understanding of hard work and being in a better place here in the States, as compared to where they came from.
Title: Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
Post by: Petty Tyrant on August 14, 2015, 03:21:48 PM
It's sad to see my home island befall such a fate. Kos is a beautiful place that is surely turning into a living hell. But the writing was on the wall 15 years ago when I left her shores, myself an economic refugee, in search of a better tomorrow. A few years earlier still I remember hearing a local professor warn that by 2020 the population of Greece would be 20 million. Half of them refugees fleeing from a war and climate ravaged MENA and that exposed regions like the Aegean Islands would bear the brunt of it. How prophetic ring his words now.

You can consider yourself fortunate.  15 years ago there was still somewhere to flee to for a Better Tomorrow.

Now there is nowhere to run to, nowhere to hide.

RE

True, I have been fortunate since then until now. But it's difficult when your homeland is ground zero.

Glass half empty...

If u look on the bright side, a UN mission will be set up which injects a lot of money into local economy and employs local people, a very sweet gig to get in on. Resettlement programs and housing keep social workers and builders busy. A million Syrians and Africans a year will offset the europeans declining population problem  and DNA does love diversity.

Never mind that if we didnt colonise,  exploit and export all of africas agricultural and mineral commodities out for ourselves, the shafted people wouldnt be following where their wealth ends up. As for the Syrian and Afghan refugees,  what do they have in common with the Vietnamese boat people in the late 70s early 80s?  They were all doing just fine as long as we left them alone,  which kind of makes them more or less our problem.
Title: Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
Post by: Mercury on August 14, 2015, 03:28:04 PM
It's sad to see my home island befall such a fate. Kos is a beautiful place that is surely turning into a living hell. But the writing was on the wall 15 years ago when I left her shores, myself an economic refugee, in search of a better tomorrow. A few years earlier still I remember hearing a local professor warn that by 2020 the population of Greece would be 20 million. Half of them refugees fleeing from a war and climate ravaged MENA and that exposed regions like the Aegean Islands would bear the brunt of it. How prophetic ring his words now.

You can consider yourself fortunate.  15 years ago there was still somewhere to flee to for a Better Tomorrow.

Now there is nowhere to run to, nowhere to hide.

RE

True, I have been fortunate since then until now. But it's difficult when your homeland is ground zero.

Glass half empty...

If u look on the bright side, un mission will be set up which injects a lot of money into local economy and employs people to a very sweet gig. resettlement programs and housing keeps builders busy, a million syrians and africans a year will offset the europeans declining population and dna loves diversity. Never mind that if we didnt colonise,  exploit and export all of africas agricultural and mineral commodities out for ourselves the people wouldnt be following where their wealth ends up. As for rhe syrian and afghan refugees,  what do they have in common with the vietnamese boat people in the late 70s early 80s?  They were all doing just fine as long as we left them alone,  which now makes them our problem.

(http://8qy86327aq846w19h2kr72bs.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/hummmm.jpg)
Title: Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
Post by: luciddreams on August 14, 2015, 04:31:01 PM
Damn...I don't know what else to say about this.  So these are climate change refugees only...due to drought?  You would think in places like Afghanistan that it would have something to do with our military campaigns during the last 14 years.  I suppose it's just irony at work.  I don't even know to what extent we are in Afghanistan now. 

Anyways, this makes me wonder how much longer BAU continues in places like Greece?  Not that BAU is still the case there.  I don't see how it could be.  How do you ship 1000 refugees a day back to a land that can't support them?  Yet where they land can't support them.  These our the first stirrings of too many mofo's on planet earth it would seem.  This is the beginning of a trend that's only going to get worse as the days go by. 

I also wonder what the sentiment is for the Europeans with this invasion of climate change refugees.  Do they see them as climate change refugees?  Or do they seem them as refugees that are collateral damage do to the USA's foreign war policy?  Syria, Afghanistan?  Damn if it doesn't look to me like WWIII is just about baked into the cake at this point.  In 1984 the three world powers were at war all of the time.  Which power was allied with which power shifted as did the chocolate rations.  The older I get the more Orwell looks like a profit.  I've long contended that our future will  be something between A Brave New World and 1984.
Title: Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
Post by: Mercury on August 14, 2015, 04:55:47 PM
Damn...I don't know what else to say about this.  So these are climate change refugees only...due to drought?  You would think in places like Afghanistan that it would have something to do with our military campaigns during the last 14 years.  I suppose it's just irony at work.  I don't even know to what extent we are in Afghanistan now. 

Anyways, this makes me wonder how much longer BAU continues in places like Greece?  Not that BAU is still the case there.  I don't see how it could be.  How do you ship 1000 refugees a day back to a land that can't support them?  Yet where they land can't support them.  These our the first stirrings of too many mofo's on planet earth it would seem.  This is the beginning of a trend that's only going to get worse as the days go by. 

I also wonder what the sentiment is for the Europeans with this invasion of climate change refugees.  Do they see them as climate change refugees?  Or do they seem them as refugees that are collateral damage do to the USA's foreign war policy?  Syria, Afghanistan?  Damn if it doesn't look to me like WWIII is just about baked into the cake at this point.  In 1984 the three world powers were at war all of the time.  Which power was allied with which power shifted as did the chocolate rations.  The older I get the more Orwell looks like a profit.  I've long contended that our future will  be something between A Brave New World and 1984.

Indeed. These are refugees of western imperialism. Although climate change is a contributing factor calling them climate refugees is misguided and deflects responsibility from unrepentant westerners for the immiseration of whole continents just so Happy Motoring can persist here for a little while longer.
Title: Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
Post by: agelbert on August 14, 2015, 05:00:21 PM
Quote
The cost of sanity in this society is a certain level of alienation. - Terrance McKenna

Human alienation aside, some aliens, however, might get a lot of good laughs out of our Natural De-selection  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-070814193155.png) trajectory.

(https://collapseofindustrialcivilization.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/aliens-2.jpg)
Title: Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
Post by: luciddreams on August 14, 2015, 05:39:13 PM
Damn...I don't know what else to say about this.  So these are climate change refugees only...due to drought?  You would think in places like Afghanistan that it would have something to do with our military campaigns during the last 14 years.  I suppose it's just irony at work.  I don't even know to what extent we are in Afghanistan now. 

Anyways, this makes me wonder how much longer BAU continues in places like Greece?  Not that BAU is still the case there.  I don't see how it could be.  How do you ship 1000 refugees a day back to a land that can't support them?  Yet where they land can't support them.  These our the first stirrings of too many mofo's on planet earth it would seem.  This is the beginning of a trend that's only going to get worse as the days go by. 

I also wonder what the sentiment is for the Europeans with this invasion of climate change refugees.  Do they see them as climate change refugees?  Or do they seem them as refugees that are collateral damage do to the USA's foreign war policy?  Syria, Afghanistan?  Damn if it doesn't look to me like WWIII is just about baked into the cake at this point.  In 1984 the three world powers were at war all of the time.  Which power was allied with which power shifted as did the chocolate rations.  The older I get the more Orwell looks like a profit.  I've long contended that our future will  be something between A Brave New World and 1984.

Indeed. These are refugees of western imperialism. Although climate change is a contributing factor calling them climate refugees is misguided and deflects responsibility from unrepentant westerners for the immiseration of whole continents just so Happy Motoring can persist here for a little while longer.

Talk about cognizant dissonance.  I was born in the USA and have lived here my entire life (outside of the 6 months on an air craft carrier).  I have no desire to be poor.  I have no desire to immiserate whole continents for my way of life either.  I have no choice in any of this (outside of gaming the system like I'm doing).  I have children.  We do what we have to do where we are I suppose.  I'd rather my country live honestly, but that option got chucked out the window a long time ago...if it ever was an option.  I mean the US did start off by doing it's level best to exterminate the "savages."  I guess if there is any honesty to us we can find it there.  At least we can say we started off as a seedling nation by exterminating millions of natives. 

Still, there is a small part of me that wants to be proud of this nation.  What I thought it used to stand for at least.  Justice?  I think that's always been a philosophical idea that our human nature will not allow for. 
Title: Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
Post by: RE on August 14, 2015, 06:23:16 PM
Damn...I don't know what else to say about this.  So these are climate change refugees only...due to drought?  You would think in places like Afghanistan that it would have something to do with our military campaigns during the last 14 years.  I suppose it's just irony at work.  I don't even know to what extent we are in Afghanistan now. 

Anyways, this makes me wonder how much longer BAU continues in places like Greece?  Not that BAU is still the case there.  I don't see how it could be.  How do you ship 1000 refugees a day back to a land that can't support them?  Yet where they land can't support them.  These our the first stirrings of too many mofo's on planet earth it would seem.  This is the beginning of a trend that's only going to get worse as the days go by. 

I also wonder what the sentiment is for the Europeans with this invasion of climate change refugees.  Do they see them as climate change refugees?  Or do they seem them as refugees that are collateral damage do to the USA's foreign war policy?  Syria, Afghanistan?  Damn if it doesn't look to me like WWIII is just about baked into the cake at this point.  In 1984 the three world powers were at war all of the time.  Which power was allied with which power shifted as did the chocolate rations.  The older I get the more Orwell looks like a profit.  I've long contended that our future will  be something between A Brave New World and 1984.

Indeed. These are refugees of western imperialism. Although climate change is a contributing factor calling them climate refugees is misguided and deflects responsibility from unrepentant westerners for the immiseration of whole continents just so Happy Motoring can persist here for a little while longer.

Talk about cognizant dissonance.  I was born in the USA and have lived here my entire life (outside of the 6 months on an air craft carrier).  I have no desire to be poor.  I have no desire to immiserate whole continents for my way of life either.  I have no choice in any of this (outside of gaming the system like I'm doing).  I have children.  We do what we have to do where we are I suppose.  I'd rather my country live honestly, but that option got chucked out the window a long time ago...if it ever was an option.  I mean the US did start off by doing it's level best to exterminate the "savages."  I guess if there is any honesty to us we can find it there.  At least we can say we started off as a seedling nation by exterminating millions of natives. 

Still, there is a small part of me that wants to be proud of this nation.  What I thought it used to stand for at least.  Justice?  I think that's always been a philosophical idea that our human nature will not allow for.

As far as the people who currently live in Italy and Greece are concerned, I doubt they think of these folks as EITHER Climate Refugees or victims of Western Imperialism.  To them, they are just boatloads of poor people who they can't support.

The truth of course is that both are contributing factors.  Western Imperialism is the product of the industrial revolution, climate change is partially the result of the industrial revolution also and so is population overshoot.  The latter is the real issue at work here of course.  Too many people for a given area of land to support.

Sadly, the places they are trying to migrate to also are in a situation of population overshoot, though not quite so bad as Syria of course.  You do know I trust that drought has been ongoing in Syria so long now that many towns inhabited since Biblical times have had to be abandoned.  Those people migrated into Syrian cities, where there were no jobs for them.  Then their own Civil War breaks out, and they try to escape that.

As far as what the FSoA ever "stood for", there is what you were taught in school as to what it stood for and then there is REALITY.  All you have to do is read Smedley Butler's War is a Racket to know that going well back into the 1800s all the FSoA ever stood for was conquering other lands and killing off anyone standing in the way.  Manifest Destiny was all about wiping out the Native population, which was pretty well done by 1900, then the army and navy headed down to South America.  We got a foothold in Asia when Matthew Perry brought his gunboats to Japan in the 1850s.

Basically from the moment it was founded as a separate entity after the Revolutionary War, the FSoA has been on a constant expansionary expedition, using the military power of industrialization to capture the resources found everywhere else in the world it could control.  After WWII, the FSoA gained hegemony over the global monetary system as well, and essentially turned the Chinese into slaves utilizing that method.

Far as your complicity or my complicity in this goes, we are just passengers on the Titanic, we're not in control of the rudder or the engines or the navigation as we move toward the iceberg.  The Syrian Refugees are stowaways who get pitched off the Titanic with no Life Preserver even before it hits the iceberg.

RE
Title: Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
Post by: agelbert on August 14, 2015, 07:14:17 PM
Damn...I don't know what else to say about this.  So these are climate change refugees only...due to drought?  You would think in places like Afghanistan that it would have something to do with our military campaigns during the last 14 years.  I suppose it's just irony at work.  I don't even know to what extent we are in Afghanistan now. 

Anyways, this makes me wonder how much longer BAU continues in places like Greece?  Not that BAU is still the case there.  I don't see how it could be.  How do you ship 1000 refugees a day back to a land that can't support them?  Yet where they land can't support them.  These our the first stirrings of too many mofo's on planet earth it would seem.  This is the beginning of a trend that's only going to get worse as the days go by. 

I also wonder what the sentiment is for the Europeans with this invasion of climate change refugees.  Do they see them as climate change refugees?  Or do they seem them as refugees that are collateral damage do to the USA's foreign war policy?  Syria, Afghanistan?  Damn if it doesn't look to me like WWIII is just about baked into the cake at this point.  In 1984 the three world powers were at war all of the time.  Which power was allied with which power shifted as did the chocolate rations.  The older I get the more Orwell looks like a profit.  I've long contended that our future will  be something between A Brave New World and 1984.

Indeed. These are refugees of western imperialism. Although climate change is a contributing factor calling them climate refugees is misguided and deflects responsibility from unrepentant westerners for the immiseration of whole continents just so Happy Motoring can persist here for a little while longer.

Talk about cognizant dissonance.  I was born in the USA and have lived here my entire life (outside of the 6 months on an air craft carrier).  I have no desire to be poor.  I have no desire to immiserate whole continents for my way of life either.  I have no choice in any of this (outside of gaming the system like I'm doing).  I have children.  We do what we have to do where we are I suppose.  I'd rather my country live honestly, but that option got chucked out the window a long time ago...if it ever was an option.  I mean the US did start off by doing it's level best to exterminate the "savages."  I guess if there is any honesty to us we can find it there.  At least we can say we started off as a seedling nation by exterminating millions of natives. 

Still, there is a small part of me that wants to be proud of this nation.  What I thought it used to stand for at least.  Justice?  I think that's always been a philosophical idea that our human nature will not allow for.

As far as the people who currently live in Italy and Greece are concerned, I doubt they think of these folks as EITHER Climate Refugees or victims of Western Imperialism.  To them, they are just boatloads of poor people who they can't support.

The truth of course is that both are contributing factors.  Western Imperialism is the product of the industrial revolution, climate change is partially the result of the industrial revolution also and so is population overshoot.  The latter is the real issue at work here of course.  Too many people for a given area of land to support.

Sadly, the places they are trying to migrate to also are in a situation of population overshoot, though not quite so bad as Syria of course.  You do know I trust that drought has been ongoing in Syria so long now that many towns inhabited since Biblical times have had to be abandoned.  Those people migrated into Syrian cities, where there were no jobs for them.  Then their own Civil War breaks out, and they try to escape that.

As far as what the FSoA ever "stood for", there is what you were taught in school as to what it stood for and then there is REALITY.  All you have to do is read Smedley Butler's War is a Racket to know that going well back into the 1800s all the FSoA ever stood for was conquering other lands and killing off anyone standing in the way.  Manifest Destiny was all about wiping out the Native population, which was pretty well done by 1900, then the army and navy headed down to South America.  We got a foothold in Asia when Matthew Perry brought his gunboats to Japan in the 1850s.

Basically from the moment it was founded as a separate entity after the Revolutionary War, the FSoA has been on a constant expansionary expedition, using the military power of industrialization to capture the resources found everywhere else in the world it could control.  After WWII, the FSoA gained hegemony over the global monetary system as well, and essentially turned the Chinese into slaves utilizing that method.

Far as your complicity or my complicity in this goes, we are just passengers on the Titanic, we're not in control of the rudder or the engines or the navigation as we move toward the iceberg.  The Syrian Refugees are stowaways who get pitched off the Titanic with no Life Preserver even before it hits the iceberg.

RE

It's happening in many places in the world. Dominicans trying to get to Puerto Rico (for a better life, not because of the environment, YET) drown on a regular basis in the turbulent Mona Passage. A pack of desperate people gets sold a crappy boat, proceed to overload it and the rest is bodies floating at sea.  :emthdown:
Title: Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
Post by: RE on August 14, 2015, 07:36:34 PM

It's happening in many places in the world. Dominicans trying to get to Puerto Rico (for a better life, not because of the environment, YET) drown on a regular basis in the turbulent Mona Passage. A pack of desperate people gets sold a crappy boat, proceed to overload it and the rest is bodies floating at sea.  :emthdown:

Dominicans trying to get to Puerto Rico, and Puerto Ricans trying to get to Amerika, because Puerto Rico is running out of water too!

Eventually, millions of Californicators will try to migrate to Alaska too, and then where will the Alaskans migrate to?  Nunavut?

Mexicans will pour across the border into Texas, where they are not exactly doing so great right now themselves on the water end.  Are Texans welcoming Mexican refugees?

Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.

Borders are going to be shut down, that is of course already underway with the building of fences and so forth.  People arriving on boats if they make whatever crossing they are trying alive in a piece of shit boat will be shot on site on arrival.

"This is not the end.  It is not even the beginning of the end.  It is however, the end of the beginning."

Thank you Illuminati Scumbag Winston Churchill.

RE
Title: Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
Post by: luciddreams on August 14, 2015, 08:00:25 PM

As far as the people who currently live in Italy and Greece are concerned, I doubt they think of these folks as EITHER Climate Refugees or victims of Western Imperialism.  To them, they are just boatloads of poor people who they can't support.

It's worse than that even.   Because the Greeks can't even support themselves.  So this is unsupportable economic non-person country men being asked by chance to support economical/climate/US imperial over reach victims who only wish they could be unsupportable like the Greeks.  That's fucked man :emthdown:

Quote
The truth of course is that both are contributing factors.  Western Imperialism is the product of the industrial revolution, climate change is partially the result of the industrial revolution also and so is population overshoot.  The latter is the real issue at work here of course.  Too many people for a given area of land to support.

Sadly, the places they are trying to migrate to also are in a situation of population overshoot, though not quite so bad as Syria of course.  You do know I trust that drought has been ongoing in Syria so long now that many towns inhabited since Biblical times have had to be abandoned.  Those people migrated into Syrian cities, where there were no jobs for them.  Then their own Civil War breaks out, and they try to escape that.

Then ISIS says, " that's the enemy over there, the ones that bomb you with toy airplanes controlled on the other side of the world by second generation gamer dorks." 

Quote
As far as what the FSoA ever "stood for", there is what you were taught in school as to what it stood for and then there is REALITY.  All you have to do is read Smedley Butler's War is a Racket to know that going well back into the 1800s all the FSoA ever stood for was conquering other lands and killing off anyone standing in the way.  Manifest Destiny was all about wiping out the Native population, which was pretty well done by 1900, then the army and navy headed down to South America.  We got a foothold in Asia when Matthew Perry brought his gunboats to Japan in the 1850s.

My bamboo teacher is a Japanese man.  We have interesting conversations about this history.  He recently told me that the US is detonating nuclear bombs under the ground for research and development in the good ole USA.  Is that true? 

Quote
Basically from the moment it was founded as a separate entity after the Revolutionary War, the FSoA has been on a constant expansionary expedition, using the military power of industrialization to capture the resources found everywhere else in the world it could control.  After WWII, the FSoA gained hegemony over the global monetary system as well, and essentially turned the Chinese into slaves utilizing that method.

The Chinese are patient.  It won't surprise me if that polarity gets reversed and we become the slaves.  I'm hoping that my bamboo nursery and bamboo culture will convince them that I and mine are worth keeping around.  However, before that I'm hoping that the shit storm we're headed into will make industrial imperial conquest a thing of the past. 

Quote
Far as your complicity or my complicity in this goes, we are just passengers on the Titanic, we're not in control of the rudder or the engines or the navigation as we move toward the iceberg.  The Syrian Refugees are stowaways who get pitched off the Titanic with no Life Preserver even before it hits the iceberg.

RE

Or barnacles on the side of the ship. 
Title: Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
Post by: RE on August 14, 2015, 08:35:39 PM

My bamboo teacher is a Japanese man.  We have interesting conversations about this history.  He recently told me that the US is detonating nuclear bombs under the ground for research and development in the good ole USA.  Is that true? 
 

There was a lot of underground testing of nuclear weapons done in the 1950s and 1960's but I don't think it is done very much here now.  They got the weapons pretty well figured out here on how they work.

RE
Title: Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
Post by: agelbert on August 15, 2015, 02:41:17 PM
Quote



RE said, Basically from the moment it was founded as a separate entity after the Revolutionary War, the FSoA has been on a constant expansionary expedition, using the military power of industrialization to capture the resources found everywhere else in the world it could control.  After WWII, the FSoA gained hegemony over the global monetary system as well, and essentially turned the Chinese into slaves utilizing that method.


Lucid said, The Chinese are patient.  It won't surprise me if that polarity gets reversed and we become the slaves.  I'm hoping that my bamboo nursery and bamboo culture will convince them that I and mine are worth keeping around.  However, before that I'm hoping that the shit storm we're headed into will make industrial imperial conquest a thing of the past. 

(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-150815173931.png)
Title: Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
Post by: luciddreams on August 15, 2015, 03:03:13 PM
Quote



RE said, Basically from the moment it was founded as a separate entity after the Revolutionary War, the FSoA has been on a constant expansionary expedition, using the military power of industrialization to capture the resources found everywhere else in the world it could control.  After WWII, the FSoA gained hegemony over the global monetary system as well, and essentially turned the Chinese into slaves utilizing that method.


Lucid said, The Chinese are patient.  It won't surprise me if that polarity gets reversed and we become the slaves.  I'm hoping that my bamboo nursery and bamboo culture will convince them that I and mine are worth keeping around.  However, before that I'm hoping that the shit storm we're headed into will make industrial imperial conquest a thing of the past. 

(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-150815173931.png)

So before this gets completely out of hand I'd like to add that I was being facetious...that's basically my humor, but I have a hard time getting humor sometimes...unless it's stand up and I know it's supposed to be funny.  My point, I suppose, is that I just want to make clear that I'm not a proponent for the Chinese taking over my country.  It just wouldn't surprise me if one day there are Chinese tanks rollin' down the road I live on enforcing a curfew.  I'm hoping the energy situation doesn't allow for that...for any tanks of any origin.  I would not lie down and take that peacefully. 

So I think your post was funny Agelbert.  I'm just not sure how.  Maybe you can help me understand.   :icon_scratch:
Title: Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
Post by: luciddreams on August 15, 2015, 10:00:51 PM
so I've thought about your caption some more, and I think I get it...why it is funny.   :icon_mrgreen:

On another note; the Chinese send their bamboo doctorates to Japan to get their doctorates.  Japan is the leading nation (and always has been...cept maybe for a 1000 years or so in the early beginning of human civilizations when China was the leader in bamboo knowledge and culture) in empirically scientific bamboo knowledge.  The man known globally as "Dr Bamboo," or Professor Uaeda (I may be spelling his name wrong...it's pronounced you-aid-a) was Keiji Oshima's teacher.  Keiji Oshima is my teacher now.  He recently told me that I'm "3rd or 4th in bamboo knowledge in the United States."  I didn't say anything in reply because frankly I didn't know how that could be true, but I do believe he was telling me the truth as he knows it.  My wife seems to believe it's possible as well. 

So if the Chinese come here and look like Star Wars Evil Empire Soldiers...I'm pretty sure I can throw some names around and appeal to global bamboo authority.  People buy flutes from Keiji world wide for around 2 grand that are made out of madake (phyllostachy bambosuides) that he grew, harvested, and crafted into flutes.  During my intern interview he played one of these flutes at my request. 

I have 12 varieties of bamboo in the ground and one other in a pot here at my bamboo nursery...and counting.  I aim to make a lot of money with bamboo here shortly. 

And this all has to do with the tsunami of refugees drowning Europe because tsunami  has Japanese connotations to it, and Agelbert fueled my fire by posting an image of what looks to be a Chinese Moso grove. 
Title: Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
Post by: RE on August 15, 2015, 10:24:35 PM
so I've thought about your caption some more, and I think I get it...why it is funny.   :icon_mrgreen:

On another note; the Chinese send their bamboo doctorates to Japan to get their doctorates.  Japan is the leading nation (and always has been...cept maybe for a 1000 years or so in the early beginning of human civilizations when China was the leader in bamboo knowledge and culture) in empirically scientific bamboo knowledge.  The man known globally as "Dr Bamboo," or Professor Uaeda (I may be spelling his name wrong...it's pronounced you-aid-a) was Keiji Oshima's teacher.  Keiji Oshima is my teacher now.  He recently told me that I'm "3rd or 4th in bamboo knowledge in the United States."  I didn't say anything in reply because frankly I didn't know how that could be true, but I do believe he was telling me the truth as he knows it.  My wife seems to believe it's possible as well. 

So if the Chinese come here and look like Star Wars Evil Empire Soldiers...I'm pretty sure I can throw some names around and appeal to global bamboo authority.  People buy flutes from Keiji world wide for around 2 grand that are made out of madake (phyllostachy bambosuides) that he grew, harvested, and crafted into flutes.  During my intern interview he played one of these flutes at my request. 

I have 12 varieties of bamboo in the ground and one other in a pot here at my bamboo nursery...and counting.  I aim to make a lot of money with bamboo here shortly. 

And this all has to do with the tsunami of refugees drowning Europe because tsunami  has Japanese connotations to it, and Agelbert fueled my fire by posting an image of what looks to be a Chinese Moso grove.

I smell a major Bamboo Blog coming...

RE
Title: The Refugees Are Coming!!!
Post by: RE on August 16, 2015, 12:44:56 AM
The Refugee issue is getting big fast.

RE

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/08/14/the-refugees-are-coming/ (http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/08/14/the-refugees-are-coming/)

I don’t really know, I don’t understand how it feels: to live in a rich European country, which is rich mainly because it has been directly plundering many poor nations around the world. Or it has been plundering by association, through its membership in some extremist organization like NATO. To live there, refusing to acknowledge why it is rich, how it became rich.

Palaces, theatres, railroads, hospitals and parks in that rich country are built on broken skeletons and restless specters, on lakes of blood and shameless theft.

Then, when one looted country after another begins to sink, when there is nothing left there, when children begin dying from hunger and when men commence fighting each other over tiny boulders and dirty pieces of turf, pathetic boats, or dinghies, begin crossing the waterways, bringing half starved, half-mad refugees to the European sea-fronts decorated with marble.

What a horrifying sight! As if a woman, her hair waving in disarray, her lips broken, comes begging a man who raped her after killing her husband – begging for shelter and at least some work and piece of bread. She decided to abandon all her pride, because her children are sick and starving, because it is either this, or death.

That is what you reduced the world to, Europe – you, and your huge, insatiable offspring – North America!

Too egocentric, too cruel, you lost the ability to judge, to feel. All moral standards collapsed. There are no higher principles, anymore, only self-interest.

In Calais and Kos, in Paris, London, Stuttgart, and Prague, I heard the same questions posed with absolutely straight faces: “How are we going to absorb all those hordes of immigrants?”

Almost no one in the West is wondering aloud: “How did the people on other continents manage to endure those long centuries of colonialism and neo-colonialism, of shameless plunder, of slavery, of constant locust-like onslaught of corporate and neoliberal cannibalistic hordes? Wouldn’t a set of keys issued to each and every citizen of robbed, formerly or presently colonized country, be the tiniest, the most basic token of justice?”

Is it morally acceptable that a thief, an arsonist, a rapist, a liar, a serial killer, all in one, would be allowed to live in a mansion, surrounded by slums housing his victims?

In the West, in the Christian West, in fundamentalist West, such arrangement is obviously tolerable.

***

Most of the citizens of Europe are completely unrepentant. Only few of them are capable of detecting connection between their continent’s wealth, those hundreds of millions of ruined lives all over the world, and the latest wave of immigrants.

A few months ago, my comrade and fellow philosopher, Milan Kohout, lost his temper, after listening to staunchly racist, anti-immigrant guests at a studio of the Czech Television in Prague. He began shouting, live, at both the moderator, and the bigoted speakers.

Insulting letters commenced raining almost immediately: “Why don’t you stick a few of those ni**ers into your own bedroom, you asshole?” Or more threateningly: “You should be hanged for this, you bastard!”

Several weeks after the television appearance, I received his email:

    Just letting you know I have been getting so many death threats that I am starting to take them seriously. Even the neighbors from the village we have the summerhouse in are threating us. I do not know whether I should take all this serious or not but I guess I have to be careful…

On the Greek island of Kos, which is now hosting several thousands of refugees from the Middle East and Asia, but which has neither camps nor other facilities for them, a brave medical volunteer (I decided not to use her name, as she was already threatened), described the recent developments:

    The situation in Kos is totally out of control. The [right-wing] extremists of Golden Dawn – some of them fully armed – have unleashed pogroms against the refugees. Someone must speak loudly for the Mayor’s responsibilities… who had sabotaged every solidarity effort and possible solution, from the very beginning.

At the other side of Europe, the British Prime Minister is considering to employ the army, lamenting inconveniences being experienced by British holidaymakers. Traffic at the Eurotunnel is slow, often interrupted, as thousands of desperate refugees living in an appalling camp nicknamed “The Jungle” at the outskirts of the French city of Calais, are trying to reach England, some dying in the process.

Great Britain, responsible for the loss of hundreds of millions of human lives worldwide (through its colonial genocides and triggered/orchestrated famines), is now pretending that it is facing a serious “refugee crises”, while there are only some 25.000 asylum applicants on its territory.

As the Morning Star commented:

    According to the Refugee Council up to 74 per cent of all asylum-seekers are refused residency in Britain. While numbers have grown since 2008, applications for asylum in 2014 were below 25,000, with those fleeing from conflicts in Afghanistan, Syrian and Eritrea among the highest number of applicants.

In Germany, Netherlands, Scandinavia, Greece, in fact all over the Europe, right wing, xenophobic groups and movements are busy attacking and intimidating defenseless refugees.

Immigrants are portrayed as some menace, or pest, not as a group of desperate human beings – victims of the Empire.

It is mainly because of the collapse of integrity inside the Western political elites, mass media, as well as in academia and art world.

Now, most of those who are speaking in favor of accepting immigrants are doing so self-righteously, “out of charity”, not because they recognize that accepting victims of their continent’s cruelty is their moral obligation; not because they are convinced that breaking the gates of “fortress Europe” would be at least a tiny payment from the monstrous debt towards the world that had been ravished and plundered for numerous centuries.

***

It is not only what you see in Europe – that tip of the iceberg, that tiny fraction of misery that managed to land on Italian, Greek and Maltese shores.

The world is on the move. Tens of millions are displaced.

The overwhelming majority of the refugees are forced to leave their homelands because of political and economic imperialism of the West.

Syrians, Libyans, Iraqis and Afghanis were bombed to the stone-ages, just because they tried to feed, house and educate their people. In the eyes of the Empire, this was the greatest crime, as all resources are supposed to be used for alimenting Western corporations, banks and military complexes.

Eritreans were debilitated by sanctions and embargoes, right after their long war for independence. 10 million of Congolese people died since 1995, butchered by West’s allies – Rwanda and Uganda – so that Washington, London and Paris could enjoy a free flow of uranium and coltan. Many Congolese people are now trying to flee unimaginable horrors at home. Many Somalis are trying to escape, after Washington destabilized their country, after Kenya invaded its southern part on direct orders from the West, after the EU has been dumping toxic waste at its shores.

Even the plight of Rohingya people in Burma could be traced to the monstrous “divide and rule” of the British Empire in Asia.

For decades and centuries, the West kept overthrowing progressive governments, one after another. It has been murdering great political leaders like Patrice Lumumba, liquidating all attempts to build decent, socialist societies.

Then it would say: “Those ni**ers cannot govern their own countries… All their people want is to come to us, stealing our jobs, straining our social systems.”

It goes without saying that, if left alone, those countries that are now bleeding millions of their own people, “exporting refugees”, would be, most likely, as rich or even richer than the West. It applies to Iran and Iraq, Syria and Libya, perhaps even Congo and Indonesia.

The ongoing “refugee crises” is not a “problem that Europe has to deal with”. Europe is creating the crises. Europe is not “dealing” with anything. It is, as always, cheating, lying and calculating pennies, after stealing billions. Those who don’t see it are either blind or conditioned, alternatively well paid not to see.

If the mother earth gets hit, powerfully, with tremendous destructive force, pieces of it will fly, in all directions. The same applies to countries, to nations. If left in peace, states will find the way to take care of their people.

The present situation is actually just a tiny reflection, an overflow of horrors that the colonized and plundered world has to endure. It is just a tiny bit of that nightmare which is taking place inside Africa, the Middle East and several parts of Asia; a tiny bit thrown back to the face of the Europeans; being brought to and left at their doorsteps.

***

How come that “they” don’t see it? How come that almost all Western mass media are silent? How come most of present-day philosophers are not addressing, not combining the subjects of neocolonialism and immigration?

What I am saying in this essay is philosophically clear. It would be hard to dispute it. French philosopher Jean-Paul Sartre came to several similar conclusions in his “Colonialism and Neocolonialism”, few decades ago. But that was “then”. Now, to combine the plunder of the Planet committed by the West, and the plight of the refugees, appears to be taboo.

But I don’t believe in taboos, as I don’t believe in a knowledge that is strictly “theoretical”.

In the past few years I documented human misery in countless battlefields, and in the refugee camps that are housing exiles from the Democratic Republic of Congo, Somalia, Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, Bangladesh, Libya and many other broken places.

I often see, first hand, how grotesque, unsustainable, repulsive the situation is: while tiny Lebanon is now a host of over 2 million Syrian refugees, one of the main global bullies, the UK, has lesser than 25.000 registered asylum applicants on its turf!

Even the intellectuals of aggressive NATO country, Turkey, write openly and honestly in the newspapers: “We wanted to act like some smaller regional United States, therefore we should pay for those 1.8 million refugees who were forced to cross the border and settle in our camps.” Turkey is paying. As aggressive as it is, it has at least some dignity left, compared to the West.

There is simply something appalling, hypocritical, twisted, profoundly un-humanistic, in the way Europe addresses the plight of its victims.

Of course “it” is not something new. “It” has deep roots in both Christian dogmas and Christian cultural fundamentalism – the elements that are unyieldingly controlling the minds of the majority of European people. Such fundamentalism has been helping to accept and promote, even glorify, colonialism and neocolonialism, as well as the “exceptionalism”.

Fundamentalism and exceptionalism put their religions (even in the countries that became ‘secular’ on the surface), cultures, races and ways of life on the pedestal. They see “those others” as irrelevant. The suffering of “the others” is trivial, insignificant. Or it simply “does not exist”.

Orwell defined un-Christian, un-white and un-Western people simply as “un-people”, in the eyes of the West.

In Europe, wherever you go, you can read between the lines:

    If millions of “them” starve to death, then be it – as long as Germany and France could maintain clean sidewalks and hospitals, and as long as the schools don’t have too many undesirable, foreign elements and influences.

    Destruction of the world, killing and starving of millions, is sad but a necessary price to be paid for the high standard of living of the chosen, white, good Christian people in Europe and North America. Let the slaughter be contained to far away places! Let it not appear on the television screens. Let us not see the victims.

    And let those dirty and uncivilized beings stay where they are. We don’t want to face them at our resort towns and in our capital cities. We don’t want to see their sores, their wounds, and their puss.

    Let everything remain out of focus, as blurry as possible, and at extremely low volume.

    As I was told in California, during a conference: “Do not show us graphic images of Africans suffering… Here, people are very sensitive!”

    Neocolonialism? Modern slavery? We don’t like these terms. They belong to the Cold War era. They died with the Soviet Union, didn’t they?

***

As long as the Empire reigns, as long as the West rules over the planet, the refugees will be crossing dangerous waterways on board their fragile dinghies.

Some will die; others will make it.

Those who will make it will be put on trial. What they did is defined as “illegal”. They will have to prove that they are persecuted in their home country, that their lives have been threatened.

A tricky game… A very filthy game… Like in those days of Inquisition, men, women and children facing Western Christian “justice” would have to lie, in order to survive.

They would not be able to say: “I had to escape because your country killed my family”. Or: “Your continent robbed me of my livelihood”.

Fear of persecution… A “genuine” refugee would have to invent his or her imaginary story, his or her torturer: one that is approved by the Empire.

Then, and only then, a refugee would have at least a tiny chance to receive his or her asylum, a shelter and a piece of bread – a tiny bit of what was already stolen from his or her native land.

The Jungle camp in Calais, France

The Jungle camp in Calais, France.

Calais - anti refugee walls

Calais – anti refugee walls.

Congolese refugees in Goma

Congolese refugees in Goma.

fainted refugee in Kos (courtesy photo from Kos)

Fainted refugee in Kos (courtesy photo from Kos).

refugees in Kos Greece (photos courtesy from Kos)

Refugees in Kos Greece (photos courtesy from Kos).

Shia IDP on Madura Island, Indonesia

Shia IDP on Madura Island, Indonesia.

Somali refugee in Dadaab camp

Somali refugee in Dadaab camp.

Andre Vltchek is a philosopher, novelist, filmmaker and investigative journalist. He covered wars and conflicts in dozens of countries. His latest books are: “Exposing Lies Of The Empire” and “Fighting Against Western Imperialism”.Discussion with Noam Chomsky: On Western Terrorism. Point of No Return is his critically acclaimed political novel. Oceania – a book on Western imperialism in the South Pacific. His provocative book about Indonesia: “Indonesia – The Archipelago of Fear”. Andre is making films for teleSUR and Press TV. After living for many years in Latin America and Oceania, Vltchek presently resides and works in East Asia and the Middle East. He can be reached through his website or his Twitter.
Title: Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
Post by: luciddreams on August 16, 2015, 05:31:14 AM


I smell a major Bamboo Blog coming...

RE

Well you may be correct.  However, I've been researching for a blog on fox lore lately.  Not sure when I'll get around to writing it. 
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: jdwheeler42 on August 17, 2015, 10:18:51 PM
Frankly, Andre, fuck charity!  These people are voting with their feet, and they're coming to America.

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc-v8CFJzu4#)

And America is made up of people who dared to dream of a better life over the horizon -- even the "Natives", who were just the first immigrants, by hundreds of generations.  We need to keep out the predators, of course, but for the ones who buy in to the Dream and are willing to work hard for it, I welcome the newcomers.

Title: Refugees: They're Comin' to Amerika (and Europe, and China...)
Post by: RE on August 18, 2015, 12:18:38 AM
Frankly, Andre, fuck charity!  These people are voting with their feet, and they're coming to America.

I believe you were trying to embed Neil Diamond's "America", but that video has been removed.

However, I found this one with a great Slideshow presentation:

http://www.youtube.com/v/9ttDUGM-1mU

Now, this gives you warm and fuzzy feelings about the History of Amerika as written in the history books,  and those images of the Statue of Liberty always bring up the Patriotic feelings and belief in the Land of Liberty.

A few things to note here though.  What do you notice about all those pictures of Immigrants?  They're all WHITE people from Europe!

Then look at those wonderful pictures of Greenery, Farms, Open Spaces etc.

Is that what CA is going to look like in 10 years?  Iowa in 20?

This is nostalgia for the PAST.  Those wide open spaces and boundless opportunity are GONE now.

Let's dissect Neil's lyrics:

"America"

Far,
We've been traveling far
Without a home
But not without a star

Free,
Only want to be free

We huddle close
Hang on to a dream

On the boats and on the planes
They're coming to America
Never looking back again,
They're coming to America

Home
Don't it seem so far away
Oh, we're traveling light today
In the eye of the storm
In the eye of the storm

Home
To a new and a shiny place
Make our bed and we'll say our grace
Freedom's light burning warm
Freedom's light burning warm


Everywhere around the world
They're coming to America
Ev'ry time that flag's unfurled
They're coming to America

Got a dream to take them there
They're coming to America
Got a dream they've come to share
They're coming to America

They're coming to America
They're coming to America
They're coming to America
They're coming to America
Today, Today,
Today, Today, Today

My country 'tis of thee (today)
Sweet land of liberty (today)
Of thee I sing (today)

Of thee I sing
Today, Today, Today
Today, today, today......

Writer(s): Neil Diamond
Copyright: Stonebridge Music

Now, how realistic is this idea of "Freedom" and Liberty in the Amerika of TODAY, not your nostalgic history lessons?  Patriot Act, NDAA, TPP, Militarized Police, spying by the NSA and data mining from Google, precisely where is the FREEDOM here?  Granted it is still probably better than wherever they are coming from, but they'll be pretty disappointed in a few years, at most.

The main issue though remains the resource problem.  Half of the land mass of the FSoA west of the Mississippi River will once again be the Great Amerikan Desert soon enough.  We will have our own internal refugee problem that cannot be solved, except by Dead People.  Taking in more now just makes the problem worse here later.

The days of escaping as a refugee to freedom in less populated lands where there was still Opportunity are OVAH.  Refugees are unlikely to be welcome anywhere pretty soon.  Certainly in Europe they are not going to constantly accept Wave After Wave of boat people coming from North Africa and walking across Syria and Turkey into Greece.

For probably 2/3rds of the Global population, there is already no hope.  They cannot escape.

They will stay where they lay.

RE

Title: The Refugee Tsunami
Post by: RE on August 20, 2015, 02:04:18 AM


collapse-global-logo-1Off the keyboard of RE



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Published on the Doomstead Diner on August 20, 2015






Discuss this article at the Geopolitics Table inside the Diner






Migrants, who were found at sea on a boat, collect water during a heavy rain at a temporary refuge camp near Kanyin Chaung jetty, Myanmar, on June 4, 2015.



The Refugee problem is one of several Collapse Topics to be covered in a Live Broadcast this Sunday at High Noon Alaska Time on the Collapse Cafe You Tube Channel



Guests to include Nicole Foss, Gail Tverberg, Ugo Bardi, Steve Ludlum, Tom Lewis and Norman Pagett



(assuming everyone's plugins work right and the bandwidth is decent)



A growing problem all across the Globe is that of Refugees.  Millions of people trying to flee from one place and seek refuge in another.  The reasons appear to vary, in some cases because of ongoing conflict and war; in others due to Drought and the inability to provide enough food for the local population; other cases due to religious and ethnic differences between classes in the local society, etc.



Of course, all of these phenomena have two things in common, which are Population Overshoot and Resource Depletion.  All the conflicts stem from that, all the rest is just distraction.  If there really was plenty for everybody, if some people weren't being exploited for the benefit of others and there was an equitable distribution of the wealth, then you would have no conflict.  Everybody would be HAPPY! :)



http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/desert1101_428x269_to_468x312.jpgThe great surplus of energy we enjoyed globally here for the last couple of centuries allowed populations to balloon up all over the world, many of those populations in locations which have no chance of being self-sufficient at their current population size.  Saudi Arabia a prime example of this, they traded their oil for food and used it to pump up water from deep aquifers and desalinate still more water from the ocean, and blew up from 1M people to 30M people in a century.  In reality of course, Arabia is a DESERT!  The House of Saud Princes are descendents of a bunch of Bedouin Tribesmen who wandered that desert. Then with their Oil Wealth they imported in tons of people to do the scut work of the industrial society.   No way all these folks can continue to survive in Deserts of Arabia, so they will go on the MOVE.  At least if they don"t die first anyhow.



Although we have seen this for quite some time here in Amerika down on the Border with Mejico, constant bewailing of the problemof "Illegal Aliens" (as though they come from Outer Space without papers), the current really BIG problems are occuring in Southern Europe as refugees from the War Zones and progressively more desertified areas attempt to flee across the Mediterranean Sea by any thing that sort of floats, and on foot across Turkey and into Greece, all trying to get to the closest place where they think they still might carve out a life for themselves.



Boat-RefugeesSadly of course, Ground Zero for a lot of this migration is Italy where they are only doing marginally better than the folks down in MENA are doing.  At least 1000 a day currently actually arriving alive, plus they find a few bodies washing up on the beaches  in the Tourist hangouts on a daily basis as well.



Recently Jason Heppenstall from 22 Billion Energy Slaves was vacationing down in Italy and wrote this about the situation:



"[As an aside, a friend of mine got married in Sicily a couple of months ago and the wedding reception was continually interrupted by overhead helicopters coming back from sea with migrants dangling from them. Some children asked “What is going on?” and the adults comforted them by saying it was just some swimmers who had got into difficulty. When this carried on for two full days (Sicilian weddings being long affairs) the children must have concluded that practically everyone swimming needed rescuing.]"



For those that do make the crossing alive, they aren't exactly being welcome with open arms by the Italians




Italian protesters torch beds to try block migrant arrivals



http://www.barenakedislam.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/zx620y348_1075644.jpgRome (AFP) – Residents in a chic Rome suburb and a northern Italian village staged angry anti-immigrant protests on Friday, with villagers setting mattresses ablaze in a bid to stop authorities from housing migrants.



Authorities in the village of Quito plan to accommodate 101 immigrants in empty apartments, but several residents broke into one of the buildings, removed camp beds, mattresses and televisions intended for the newcomers and set them on fire outside.



The protesters then put up tents, with the Corriere della Sera newspaper quoting them as saying: "We aren't going home until they leave — this is an invasion."



Italy is currently hosting more than 80,000 migrants who have crossed the Mediterranean fleeing war, persecution or poverty in the Middle East and Africa. The arrivals include many Africans, particularly Eritreans, as well as Syrians.




Not very welcoming over there, obviously. Not a lot different here though, as currently leading Repub POTUS candidate The Donald not only doesn't want to let any new refugees IN, he wants to kick the ones already here OUT.




Donald Trump says illegal immigrants 'have to go' during NBC interview



Donald Trump has fired another loud shot in the battle for the Republican presidential nomination in 2016, telling NBC News’ Meet the Press illegal immigrants to the US “have to go”.






Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump said: ‘They have to go. Chuck, we either have a country, or we don’t have a country.’ Photograph: Jim Young/Reuters



The real-estate mogul and sometime reality TV star, who leads polls of the Republican field after a series of controversies stoked by abrasive remarks, made the comment during an interview with host Chuck Todd which was conducted on his private plane as it sat on a runway in Des Moines, Iowa.



The conversation covered the candidate’s determination to rescind President Barack Obama’s executive orders on immigration which, subject to court battles, would protect up to 5 million undocumented children and family members from deportation.




Now, I cannot agree with The Donald that we even could kick all the undocumented migrants out, even if he could get such legislation passed.  It's completely impractical, how would you do such a purge?  Go on a house to house search with the Gestapo asking "Let me see your papers"?






http://northamericanimmigration.org/uploads/posts/2011-02/1298837157_statue-of-liberty.jpgHowever, the idea that in an era of steady resource depletion and population overshoot all refugees can be welcome with open arms and the Torch of the Statue of Liberty serving as a Beacon of Freedom is an equally unrealistic idea.  Both here, in Europe and in Asia as well borders are going to be shut down and migration is going to become increasingly more difficult as time goes by.  If you are figuring on trying to migrate BEFORE things get that bad in your neighborhood, now would be a good time to get moving.



As with many article on the Diner, this one was inspired by a post made by one of the KollapsniksTM on the Diner Forum.  I will close with my response to that post.





Frankly, Andre, fuck charity!  These people are voting with their feet, and they're coming to America.





I believe you were trying to embed Neil Diamond's "America", but that video version has been removed.



However, I found this one heading this article with a great Slideshow presentation, worth watching. (above heading this article)

 





Now, this gives you warm and fuzzy feelings about the History of Amerika as written in the history books,  and those images of the Statue of Liberty always bring up the Patriotic feelings and belief in the Land of Liberty.



A few things to note here though.  What do you notice about all those pictures of Immigrants?  They're all WHITE people from Europe!



Then look at those wonderful pictures of Greenery, Farms, Open Spaces etc.



Is that what CA is going to look like in 10 years?  Iowa in 20?



This is nostalgia for the PAST.  Those wide open spaces and boundless opportunity are GONE now.



Let's dissect Neil's lyrics:

 



"America"



 



 



 



 



 



Far,

We've been traveling far

Without a home

But not without a star



Free,

Only want to be free


We huddle close

Hang on to a dream



On the boats and on the planes

They're coming to America

Never looking back again,

They're coming to America



Home

Don't it seem so far away

Oh, we're traveling light today

In the eye of the storm

In the eye of the storm



Home

To a new and a shiny place

Make our bed and we'll say our grace

Freedom's light burning warm

Freedom's light burning warm



Everywhere around the world

They're coming to America

Ev'ry time that flag's unfurled

They're coming to America



Got a dream to take them there

They're coming to America

Got a dream they've come to share

They're coming to America



They're coming to America

They're coming to America

They're coming to America

They're coming to America

Today, Today,

Today, Today, Today



My country 'tis of thee (today)

Sweet land of liberty (today)

Of thee I sing (today)


Of thee I sing

Today, Today, Today

Today, today, today……



Writer(s): Neil Diamond

Copyright: Stonebridge Music






Now, how realistic is this idea of "Freedom" and Liberty in the Amerika of TODAY, not your nostalgic history lessons?  Patriot Act, NDAA, TPP, Militarized Police, spying by the NSA and data mining from Google, precisely where is the FREEDOM here?  Granted it is still probably better than wherever they are coming from, but they'll be pretty disappointed in a few years, at most.



The main issue though remains the resource problem.  Half of the land mass of the FSoA west of the Mississippi River will once again be the Great Amerikan Desert soon enough.  We will have our own internal refugee problem that cannot be solved, except by Dead People.  Taking in more now just makes the problem worse here later.



The days of escaping as a refugee to freedom in less populated lands where there was still Opportunity are OVAH.  Refugees are unlikely to be welcome anywhere pretty soon.  Certainly in Europe they are not going to constantly accept Wave After Wave of boat people coming from North Africa and walking across Syria and Turkey into Greece.



For probably 2/3rds of the Global population, there is already no hope.  They cannot escape.



In the words of Hawkeye from "Last of the Mohicans"



“they’re not strangers… and they stay as they lay…”



https://cenantua.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/mohicans1.jpg


Title: Re: The Refugee Tsunami
Post by: Surly1 on August 20, 2015, 03:12:27 AM
(https://scontent.fash1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11888131_10152965012017016_4539896828266334768_n.jpg?oh=bd37be2544941a64c4b6c093bcbfbc72&oe=56392ECE)
Title: Re: The Refugee Tsunami
Post by: RE on August 20, 2015, 04:16:34 AM
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TFVb3naAbRs/TzTKZDsuYxI/AAAAAAAAFN8/YVp8T6JgtN4/s1600/coming.jpg)

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: azozeo on August 20, 2015, 04:56:54 AM
For aeons humans have fled tyranny. However there is no place left to flee to.
One other aspect is the feedback loop scenario ....
The wealthy nations have plundered the poorer nations & now the locals
from those poorer nations want to get the f%#$ outta dodge so their choice
would be the wealthier nations & those locals are willing to put their lives on
the line to do so. Look at the poor folks (Palestinian's) trapped by walls & they're
forced to exist in shithole conditions. Strapping a bomb to yourself is a way out or step
up in their minds eye.

http://www.youtube.com/v/VyRFg1N-FfE&fs=1
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on August 20, 2015, 05:02:24 AM
Strapping a bomb to yourself is a way out or step up in their minds eye.

The NOTHING LEFT TO LOSE option out.

Likely to become more common here as well.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on August 20, 2015, 02:52:27 PM
http://www.rt.com/news/312935-macedonia-emergency-migrants-crisis/ (http://www.rt.com/news/312935-macedonia-emergency-migrants-crisis/)
Macedonia declares state of emergency over surge in migrants & refugees, ready to deploy army
20 Aug, 2015

Macedonia has declared a state of emergency on its southern and northern borders over a surge in migrants and refugees, the Interior Ministry announced. The country said it would involve the army in confronting the crisis.

"We expect the involvement of the army will bring two desired effects – it will increase security among our citizens in the two regions and will allow for a more comprehensive approach toward people expressing their interest in applying for asylum," Interior Ministry spokesman Ivo Kotevski said.

He told Reuters that the “official border crossings are not shut,” but that authorities may have moved to seal off illegal routes used by the migrants and refugees.

Thousands of migrants were stranded on Thursday in a 'no-man's land' between Macedonia and Greece, near the Macedonian town of Gevgelija. From there, they planned to catch trains that would take them to the Serbian border, and onto Hungary, where they would benefit from Europe's borderless Schengen zone.

Riot police were sent to the town to try to restore order amid the chaos, and Reuters has reported that the flow of migrants in the town now appears to have suddenly stopped.

Macedonia has become a major transit route for migrants heading from Greece to more prosperous EU countries.

On Wednesday, Macedonia warned that it is running out of trains to transport the thousands of Syrian refugees heading toward the European Union, and called on its neighbors to help combat the “alarming situation.”

"The Macedonian Railway Company has no more capacity to carry all those who want to travel toward western European countries," the head of the state railway, Nikola Kostov, told Telma TV channel, urging neighboring countries and others to provide more train carriages.

The problem may worsen with the potential arrival of thousands who are being evacuated by boat from the Greek island of Kos to the mainland, after 21,000 people landed on Greek shores last week alone.

"Depending on how Greece uses ships to decongest the islands that will also temporarily increase the arrivals here," said Alexandra Krause, senior protection officer at the United Nations Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) in the Macedonian capital Skopje.

Almost 39,000 migrants, most of whom hail from Syria, have been registered passing through Macedonia over the past month. This figure is more than double that from the previous month.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: MKing on August 20, 2015, 03:23:02 PM
For aeons humans have fled tyranny. However there is no place left to flee to.

Demonstrably not true. Otherwise the north Africans wouldn't be fleeing to Europe, and immigration and illegal immigration wouldn't be an issue during the Presidential primaries here in America…generated because of folks fleeing Mexico because some places are still worth fleeing to.
Title: Re: A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe
Post by: RE on August 21, 2015, 02:40:25 AM
The Brit Problem.

RE

http://www.globalresearch.ca/british-government-racism-europes-shame/5468838 (http://www.globalresearch.ca/british-government-racism-europes-shame/5468838)
Title: Czech Government Says Ready to Use Army to Protect Border From Refugees
Post by: RE on August 21, 2015, 09:04:43 PM
Good luck to the Czechs trying to stop a Human Wave.

RE

http://www.globalresearch.ca/czech-government-says-ready-to-use-army-to-protect-border-from-refugees/5470648 (http://www.globalresearch.ca/czech-government-says-ready-to-use-army-to-protect-border-from-refugees/5470648)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on August 21, 2015, 10:52:28 PM
It's easy getting from Turkey to Greece - Kos is only 5 Km from Turkey, and once registered it is easy to move inside Greece.  Until this week, you could just "walk the line" to Macedonia, but now it is closed by troops.  There must be lots of places where you can sneak across the border though.  Macedonia is the poorest country in Europe.  I hear Albania is very nice at this time of year, and they are Muslim too.

http://www.rt.com/news/313038-migrants-injured-macedonian-border/ (http://www.rt.com/news/313038-migrants-injured-macedonian-border/)
Title: Stealth Migration Tactics
Post by: RE on August 21, 2015, 11:59:15 PM
It's easy getting from Turkey to Greece - Kos is only 5 Km from Turkey, and once registered it is easy to move inside Greece.  Until this week, you could just "walk the line" to Macedonia, but now it is closed by troops.  There must be lots of places where you can sneak across the border though.  Macedonia is the poorest country in Europe.  I hear Albania is very nice at this time of year, and they are Muslim too.

http://www.rt.com/news/313038-migrants-injured-macedonian-border/ (http://www.rt.com/news/313038-migrants-injured-macedonian-border/)

I suggest Escape via ultralight aircraft.

(http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/1/1/1/0317111.jpg)

Wait for a night with a light tailwind, 15 Gallons should get you 500 miles or so of range.  Only 5 Gallons legal here in the FSoA, but if you are not too bulky yourself you can easily carry that much gas.

You need a salvaged motorcycle engine, welding skills and nylon fabric, and plans you can get off the internet.

(http://www.ultralightamerica.com/images/fireball700ESU.jpg)

For the price they are charging for those overcrowded boat rides, I bet you could build one and fly it out.

If you wanna make a Biz out of it, you get hold of a Float Plane that seats 3 passengers

(http://www.flyingmag.com/sites/all/files/imagecache/enlarged_image/_images/201305/FLY0413_Cessna206_1.jpg)

You could fly the round trip between Izmir and Athens twice a day, taking off and landing from say 2 miles offshore of Athens, with a partner in a speed boat meeting you there.  Charge $1000/seat, $6000 a day income.  Obviously only a small portion of people will have that much money to fork over, but I'm sure there are enough to keep you bizzy.

Escape of the Birdmen-Full Movie
http://www.youtube.com/v/PNafDPikh6E

The cheapest Low Tech Solution is a Sea Kayak with a sailing rig attached.

(http://cdn.coresites.factorymedia.com/surfeurope_new/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Sea-Kayak.jpg)

You could make any crossing in the Mediterrainean with one of these.  Numerous people have done 1000 mile crossings in them.

One way or the other, people will find ways to make these migrations.  Sadly, even if successful, they won't find things much better on the other side for long.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on August 22, 2015, 12:48:40 AM
Quote
I suggest Escape via ultralight aircraft.

All white Amerikan solutions - good for escaping to Canada for FREE health services perhaps, but hardly applicable to Libya and Syria.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on August 22, 2015, 01:03:41 AM
Quote
I suggest Escape via ultralight aircraft.

All white Amerikan solutions - good for escaping to Canada for FREE health services perhaps, but hardly applicable to Libya and Syria.

They don't have motorcycles in Syria?  Steel Tubing?  Nylon?  Hell, they manufacture clothing on the cheap there.

They can't build Kayaks?

There isn't an Entrepreneur in Italy with a Float Plane?

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on August 22, 2015, 01:42:28 AM
They've got WARS going on.  You know, military control, bombs going off, food water and fuel shortages.  You can't just say "Now I think I'll put my home-built aircraft on the back of a truck and take it from the workshop to the airport for a test-fly."

If anyone wanted to fly from Italy to Syria in order to load up on refugees and fly back, they wouldn't be able to do it legally would they?  And if it wasn't legal, it would be people-smuggling, and they wouldn't be insured, so they would be risking the lot.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on August 22, 2015, 01:58:18 AM
They've got WARS going on.  You know, military control, bombs going off, food water and fuel shortages.  You can't just say "Now I think I'll put my home-built aircraft on the back of a truck and take it from the workshop to the airport for a test-fly."

If anyone wanted to fly from Italy to Syria in order to load up on refugees and fly back, they wouldn't be able to do it legally would they?  And if it wasn't legal, it would be people-smuggling, and they wouldn't be insured, so they would be risking the lot.

I never said it wasn't risky. :P

Trying to walk it is pretty risky too.

I like the Kayak the best.  :icon_sunny:

RE
Title: Re: Czech Government Says Ready to Use Army to Protect Border From Refugees
Post by: Surly1 on August 22, 2015, 02:24:54 AM
Good luck to the Czechs trying to stop a Human Wave.

RE

http://www.globalresearch.ca/czech-government-says-ready-to-use-army-to-protect-border-from-refugees/5470648 (http://www.globalresearch.ca/czech-government-says-ready-to-use-army-to-protect-border-from-refugees/5470648)

One of my best friends has family ties in Slovakia (he met and married his wife there) and this very day is headed there for a three week visit. His nephew, raised in the US, traveled as a teen to Poland, obtained a free university education, and now has become a citizen of Hungary. Before he left, we discussed the intolerable pressures posed by the migrant issues. He promised to bring back some firsthand intel from friends and family.

He was also in the habit of making a side trip to Ukraine. I asked if he was going this time, with the Minsk agreement in tatters and the FSoA hard at work "training" "Ukrainian troops." He was unsure at game time.

Meanwhile, he sent me this. You don't need a word of the language to get a sense of the crowd.

http://www.youtube.com/v/qggL62gfqmo
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Surly1 on August 22, 2015, 02:41:34 AM
Quote
I suggest Escape via ultralight aircraft.

All white Amerikan solutions - good for escaping to Canada for FREE health services perhaps, but hardly applicable to Libya and Syria.

Just hire a car. What's the problem?

(http://www.arthurslimousinemaui.com/images/site/lincoln-stretch-limo.jpg)
Title: Police battle migrants on Macedonia's border with Greece
Post by: RE on August 22, 2015, 04:48:04 AM
Tsunami Incoming from Macedonia!

Surly, any Boots on the Ground reports from your friend go up as Feature on the Blog.

RE

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-macedonia-greece-migrants-20150821-story.html (http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-macedonia-greece-migrants-20150821-story.html)
Title: Re: Police battle migrants on Macedonia's border with Greece
Post by: Mercury on August 22, 2015, 06:19:08 AM
Tsunami Incoming from Macedonia!

Surly, any Boots on the Ground reports from your friend go up as Feature on the Blog.

RE

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-macedonia-greece-migrants-20150821-story.html (http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-macedonia-greece-migrants-20150821-story.html)

Drone footage shows THOUSANDS of refugees stranded at Macedonian border
Linky: http://bit.ly/1NLqKf1 (http://bit.ly/1NLqKf1)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CM_yI-8UEAA6cCH.png)

Humanity. You Were to Dumb to Succeed.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on August 22, 2015, 07:25:44 AM
If the refugees get into Macedonia and are headed for the EU, they will go to Serbia and then on to Hungary.  Serbia, which has lots of Serbian refugees in EU who are being sent home, says it won't provide help for other refugees, but won't stop them either.  Hungary has built a wall at the border.  Albanian refugees are also being returned by EU.

Slovenia is also in the Schengen Area.  I have been there when it was in Yugoslavia.  It is adjacent to Italy, Austria and Hungary.  It was very nice (45 years ago), as is all the Croatian coastline down to Dubrovnik.  I don't know how they are treating their refugees, but you couldn't find a better place to live.
Title: Dresden riots: Protesters attack refugee buses shouting 'foreigners out!
Post by: RE on August 22, 2015, 04:33:29 PM
They're Comin' to Germany
They're Comin' to Germany


TODAY!


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dresden-riots-protesters-in-germany-attack-refugee-buses-shouting-foreigners-out-10467287.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dresden-riots-protesters-in-germany-attack-refugee-buses-shouting-foreigners-out-10467287.html)
Title: Re: Dresden riots: Protesters attack refugee buses shouting 'foreigners out!
Post by: Mercury on August 22, 2015, 06:52:43 PM
They're Comin' to Germany
They're Comin' to Germany


TODAY!


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dresden-riots-protesters-in-germany-attack-refugee-buses-shouting-foreigners-out-10467287.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dresden-riots-protesters-in-germany-attack-refugee-buses-shouting-foreigners-out-10467287.html)

Too late to bar the door Katy?  :laugh:

(https://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/sites/default/files/styles/the_breaking_news_image_style/public/Pictures/web/o/d/r/city_under_siege.jpg?itok=hW0Fh1oO)
Title: Re: Dresden riots: Protesters attack refugee buses shouting 'foreigners out!
Post by: RE on August 22, 2015, 08:29:43 PM
They're Comin' to Germany
They're Comin' to Germany


TODAY!


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dresden-riots-protesters-in-germany-attack-refugee-buses-shouting-foreigners-out-10467287.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dresden-riots-protesters-in-germany-attack-refugee-buses-shouting-foreigners-out-10467287.html)

Too late to bar the door Katy?  :laugh:

(https://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/sites/default/files/styles/the_breaking_news_image_style/public/Pictures/web/o/d/r/city_under_siege.jpg?itok=hW0Fh1oO)

Coming Soon to a Theater Near Dresden...

http://www.youtube.com/v/HdNn5TZu6R8

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on August 23, 2015, 12:14:45 AM
John Lounsbury got The Refugee Tsunami (http://econintersect.com/b2evolution/blog2.php/2015/08/23/the-refugee-tsunami) up on GEI for Sunday Morning.

Has the Top Feature Spot on the Homepage.

We are going to have a big audience.  :o

Hope the freaking tech works right.

RE
Title: Re: Dresden riots: Protesters attack refugee buses shouting 'foreigners out!
Post by: Mercury on August 23, 2015, 12:41:31 AM
They're Comin' to Germany
They're Comin' to Germany


TODAY!


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dresden-riots-protesters-in-germany-attack-refugee-buses-shouting-foreigners-out-10467287.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dresden-riots-protesters-in-germany-attack-refugee-buses-shouting-foreigners-out-10467287.html)

Too late to bar the door Katy?  :laugh:

(https://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/sites/default/files/styles/the_breaking_news_image_style/public/Pictures/web/o/d/r/city_under_siege.jpg?itok=hW0Fh1oO)

Coming Soon to a Theater Near Dresden...

http://www.youtube.com/v/HdNn5TZu6R8

RE

You never know our luck, we may get to see the end of the world televised after all!  :laugh:
Title: If Venezuela Implodes, Will Its Neighbors Be Ready?
Post by: RE on August 23, 2015, 01:35:29 AM
Venezuelan Refugees trying to get in to Brasil...to move to Sao Paolo maybe?  ::)

If it wasn't so tragic it would be comical.

RE

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-08-19/maduro-s-venezuela-veers-toward-a-humanitarian-crisis (http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-08-19/maduro-s-venezuela-veers-toward-a-humanitarian-crisis)
Title: Re: If Venezuela Implodes, Will Its Neighbors Be Ready?
Post by: Mercury on August 23, 2015, 01:50:48 AM
Venezuelan Refugees trying to get in to Brasil...to move to Sao Paolo maybe?  ::)

If it wasn't so tragic it would be comical.

RE

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-08-19/maduro-s-venezuela-veers-toward-a-humanitarian-crisis (http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-08-19/maduro-s-venezuela-veers-toward-a-humanitarian-crisis)

I can count about 17 clusterfucks maturing at this minute. This, when it blows, is going to be one for the ages. I think I need a bigger bucket of popcorn!  :laugh:

I also love that the only "solution" to Venezuela's problems, according to Bloomberg, is to punish the poor through austerity... :D
Title: Re: If Venezuela Implodes, Will Its Neighbors Be Ready?
Post by: RE on August 23, 2015, 02:09:27 AM
Venezuelan Refugees trying to get in to Brasil...to move to Sao Paolo maybe?  ::)

If it wasn't so tragic it would be comical.

RE

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-08-19/maduro-s-venezuela-veers-toward-a-humanitarian-crisis (http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-08-19/maduro-s-venezuela-veers-toward-a-humanitarian-crisis)

I can count about 17 clusterfucks maturing at this minute. This, when it blows, is going to be one for the ages. I think I need a bigger bucket of popcorn!  :laugh:

I also love that the only "solution" to Venezuela's problems, according to Bloomberg, is to punish the poor through austerity... :D

Typical Bloomberg spin, if they just dropped on a Free Market, all would be well.

they also seem to think Vnezuela has the most Oil reserves of anybody.  More than Saudi?  Russia?  What?

RE
Title: Re: If Venezuela Implodes, Will Its Neighbors Be Ready?
Post by: Mercury on August 23, 2015, 05:01:58 AM
Venezuelan Refugees trying to get in to Brasil...to move to Sao Paolo maybe?  ::)

If it wasn't so tragic it would be comical.

RE

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-08-19/maduro-s-venezuela-veers-toward-a-humanitarian-crisis (http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-08-19/maduro-s-venezuela-veers-toward-a-humanitarian-crisis)

I can count about 17 clusterfucks maturing at this minute. This, when it blows, is going to be one for the ages. I think I need a bigger bucket of popcorn!  :laugh:

I also love that the only "solution" to Venezuela's problems, according to Bloomberg, is to punish the poor through austerity... :D

Typical Bloomberg spin, if they just dropped on a Free Market, all would be well.

they also seem to think Vnezuela has the most Oil reserves of anybody.  More than Saudi?  Russia?  What?

RE

Totally delusional. The Orinoco reserves are crap-filled and would probably need a) $200+ per barrel to produce, but who could afford it? And b) another planet to dump all the CO2 emissions.
Title: Re: If Venezuela Implodes, Will Its Neighbors Be Ready?
Post by: MKing on August 23, 2015, 07:06:10 AM

they also seem to think Vnezuela has the most Oil reserves of anybody.  More than Saudi?  Russia?  What?

RE

Venezuela has slightly more in-place oil as Saudi Arabia and Russia combined. Easier to access in terms of drilling technology required, on-shore, a beautiful foreland system and sitting mostly in one place. Harder to refine, and requiring the types of refineries found primarily in America capable of handling the extra-heavy. This is why Citgo was bought out by Venezuela, needed control over the refineries in the US to do it because Venezuela really sucks in terms of native technical capability.

Largest single accumulation of flowing oil on the globe, references previously provided to the geoscientists of the USGS estimate of it, which can be argued is a bit conservative based on their stated lack of examining technological change in oil development.

http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/2009/3028/ (http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/2009/3028/)

Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on August 23, 2015, 02:58:07 PM
Some of Venezuela's oil is so heavy that they have to inject naptha to dissolve it, then pump it out, then recover the naptha by refining.  So there are two pipelines for every well, and alternating injection and extraction slows things down.  The remaining sticky goo then has to be cracked before going on to the refining stage.  The ERoEI is low, not surprisingly, and the product sells cheaply at the best of times.

One step worse in "oil" quality is bitumen, found in neighbouring Trinidad.  There is a bitumen lake there, where special vehicles drive down a concrete ramp to the lake edge, scoop up a dollop of bitumen, and drop it behind them into a waiting truck.  Overnight the hole in the lake fills in, and they do it all again the next day.

(http://palloy.net/images/bitumen.lake.jpg)
Title: Official Refugee: Milan, Italy Edition
Post by: RE on August 25, 2015, 12:40:26 AM
They're Comin' to Italia

They're Comin to Italia


TODAY!

RE

(https://img.rt.com/files/2015.08/original/55dbec65c3618899648b45d5.jpg)
http://www.rt.com/news/313311-milan-migrants-protest-conditions/ (http://www.rt.com/news/313311-milan-migrants-protest-conditions/)

http://www.youtube.com/v/NZT0HdCc73Q
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Mercury on August 25, 2015, 07:05:53 PM
Things are taking a turn for the worse in the homeland... :-[. Golden Dawn (GD) is currying support from desperate islanders who are in fear of being overrun by waves of refugees.

"The issue of illegal migrants is becoming critical & is reaching a fateful crossroads, says GD member"
"The situation here on Kos is unbelievable says the member. The government is doing nothing, just managing PR."
"Save us, plead Kos locals."
"Vote for Us (Golden Dawn) and we'll Send in the Army to deal With this Riff-Raff."...
"Otherwise, Greece will become Pakistan, says member."

Video link: http://bit.ly/1MLXKoG (http://bit.ly/1MLXKoG) (can't get embed to work.... :-\)
Video translation, courtesy of me...
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on August 25, 2015, 07:22:14 PM
Things are taking a turn for the worse in the homeland... :-[. Golden Dawn (GD) is currying support from desperate islanders who are in fear of being overrun by waves of refugees.

"The issue of illegal migrants is becoming critical & is reaching a fateful crossroads, says GD member"
"Save us, plead Kos locals."
"Vote for Us (Golden Dawn) and we'll Send in the Army to deal With this Riff-Raff."...
"Otherwise, Greece will become Pakistan, says member."

Video link: http://bit.ly/1MLXKoG (http://bit.ly/1MLXKoG) (can't get embed to work.... :-\)
Video translation, courtesy of me...

Thanks for the translation MY!

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Mercury on August 25, 2015, 07:24:46 PM
Things are taking a turn for the worse in the homeland... :-[. Golden Dawn (GD) is currying support from desperate islanders who are in fear of being overrun by waves of refugees.

"The issue of illegal migrants is becoming critical & is reaching a fateful crossroads, says GD member"
"Save us, plead Kos locals."
"Vote for Us (Golden Dawn) and we'll Send in the Army to deal With this Riff-Raff."...
"Otherwise, Greece will become Pakistan, says member."

Video link: http://bit.ly/1MLXKoG (http://bit.ly/1MLXKoG) (can't get embed to work.... :-\)
Video translation, courtesy of me...

Thanks for the translation MY!

RE

Thanks RE. Fleshed it out some more. This (in relation to the refugee ferry boondoggle) "The situation here on Kos is unbelievable says the member. The government is doing nothing, just managing PR."

Good luck with your operation. I will be praying for your speedy recovery!  :emthup:
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on August 25, 2015, 07:39:50 PM
Things are taking a turn for the worse in the homeland... :-[. Golden Dawn (GD) is currying support from desperate islanders who are in fear of being overrun by waves of refugees.

"The issue of illegal migrants is becoming critical & is reaching a fateful crossroads, says GD member"
"Save us, plead Kos locals."
"Vote for Us (Golden Dawn) and we'll Send in the Army to deal With this Riff-Raff."...
"Otherwise, Greece will become Pakistan, says member."

Video link: http://bit.ly/1MLXKoG (http://bit.ly/1MLXKoG) (can't get embed to work.... :-\)
Video translation, courtesy of me...

Thanks for the translation MY!

RE

Thanks RE. Fleshed it out some more. This (in relation to the refugee ferry boondoggle) "The situation here on Kos is unbelievable says the member. The government is doing nothing, just managing PR."

Good luck with your operation. I will be praying for your speedy recovery!  :emthup:

Thanks MY.  I'm hoping to do a Live Vidcast on Sunday from my Hospital Bed!  :icon_sunny:

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Mercury on August 25, 2015, 08:09:06 PM
Things are taking a turn for the worse in the homeland... :-[. Golden Dawn (GD) is currying support from desperate islanders who are in fear of being overrun by waves of refugees.

"The issue of illegal migrants is becoming critical & is reaching a fateful crossroads, says GD member"
"Save us, plead Kos locals."
"Vote for Us (Golden Dawn) and we'll Send in the Army to deal With this Riff-Raff."...
"Otherwise, Greece will become Pakistan, says member."

Video link: http://bit.ly/1MLXKoG (http://bit.ly/1MLXKoG) (can't get embed to work.... :-\)
Video translation, courtesy of me...

Thanks for the translation MY!

RE

Thanks RE. Fleshed it out some more. This (in relation to the refugee ferry boondoggle) "The situation here on Kos is unbelievable says the member. The government is doing nothing, just managing PR."

Good luck with your operation. I will be praying for your speedy recovery!  :emthup:

Thanks MY.  I'm hoping to do a Live Vidcast on Sunday from my Hospital Bed!  :icon_sunny:

RE

Voting intentions of Greeks presently. Golden Dawn has 25% of the straw poll. (lime-green bar). Syriza, just 12%.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10313790_1658849431019348_4498097022306473812_n.jpg?oh=627022ab9c7be489547d9db9fb9d9cc3&oe=567DA075&__gda__=1451133733_a227c2a13ed2fb5f278c27873737e91f)
Title: Macedonian Government Cracks Down on Refugees
Post by: RE on August 26, 2015, 12:36:49 AM
They're Comin to Macedonia

They're Comin' to Macedonia


TODAY!

RE

http://www.globalresearch.ca/macedonian-government-cracks-down-on-refugees/5471593 (http://www.globalresearch.ca/macedonian-government-cracks-down-on-refugees/5471593)

Macedonian Government Cracks Down on Refugees
By Markus Salzmann
Global Research, August 25, 2015
World Socialist Web Site
Region: Europe, Middle East & North Africa
Theme: Poverty & Social Inequality

[print]
 142
 2  0 
 184
macedonia-refugees-08222015-10a

The Macedonian government opened its border with Greece on Sunday after several thousand refugees broke through the police barricades there on Saturday.

Prior to this, a state of emergency had been imposed in the border region. For three days, Macedonian police and military had cordoned off the border with Greece using barbed wire fences, employing stun grenades and rubber bullets against the refugees assembled there. The police also deployed tear gas and used their batons against the crowds.

According to eyewitnesses, several people were injured, including children. Thousands were forced to spend their nights alongside the border without food in open fields.

On Saturday night, the refugees then succeeded in overcoming the police barricades at the border and were able to walk to the railway station in the border town of Gevgelija. According to the Macedonian online news siteTelegraf.mk, it was not possible for the police to keep back the onrush of refugees. The situation only calmed down once the border was reopened.

Emina, a Syrian refugee described the brutal actions of the Macedonian security forces: “It was very hard in Macedonia,” she told WirtschaftsWoche. “I have not slept for three days and did not eat. Just as we arrived at the border, they closed it. It was horrible.”

Serbian state television reported that many refugees were ill or had been injured by the police at the weekend. One woman gave birth under appalling conditions.

Macedonia is a transit country for most of the refugees from the Middle East, who travel on by way of Serbia to Hungary and thus into the European Union (EU). Most of them are fleeing from the consequences of the destructive policies of the US and the European powers in Afghanistan, Syria and Iraq, and arrive in Greece via Turkey. More than 160,000 refugees have arrived via this route this year. In the past two months, about 45,000 refugees have crossed into Macedonia.

The brutality of the right-wing government in Skopje is a sharp expression of the inhumane policy that all European governments follow against refugees. A veritable competition has opened up between the various governments in dealing with refugees as abhorrently as possible so that they move on to other countries. The refugee crisis is also deliberately exploited to mobilize right-wing forces and distract attention from domestic and foreign policy crises.

This assumes particularly repulsive forms in the Balkans, where the governments operate as stooges of the EU. The Macedonian government of Prime Minister Nicola Gruevski and his right-wing VMRO-DPMNE are in a deep political crisis. Like many parties in the former Yugoslavia, VMRO-DPMNE is deeply involved in criminal activities, has no social base in the population and ingratiates themselves with the EU in order to benefit economically.

The analyst Fejzi Hajdari from Skopje located the motivation for the border closure in both domestic and foreign policy interests. On the one hand, the government is trying to force more resources and help from the EU through the closure of borders to refugees. On the other hand, Premier Gruevski is “a master” in the art of diverting public attention at home and abroad from his own problems with surprising manoeuvres. “The EU’s pressure is great, so that the agreement achieved in June by the government with the opposition to prepare new elections is also implemented,” Hajdari said.

In other Eastern European countries too, the measures against refugees are particularly dramatic. The Slovakian government recently announced it would not accept Muslim refugees.

Ivan Metik, spokesman for the Slovak Interior Ministry, justified this with the fact that there were no mosques in the country. “How can they be integrated with us, if they don’t feel good here?” he asked cynically. One day later, the government backtracked and said that migrants from Muslim countries could apply for asylum in Slovakia, but the government’s rejection is clear.

The situation is similar in other Eastern European countries. Government officials in Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary and Estonia speak out publicly against the admission of refugees. The ruling politicians, whether Conservative or Social Democrats, reject a quota system and refuse to accept the distribution of refugees across the various EU countries.

The Hungarian government is acting particularly harshly in undertaking the “management of external borders” in the EU’s interest. The government in Budapest is currently building a four-metre high border fence, which is designed to prevent refugees from Serbia entering into the EU. This is being done with the tacit consent of the EU. “The European Commission is against the construction of border fences in Europe as a matter of principle,” said EU Commission spokesman Christian Wigand, but would not interfere with Budapest’s decision.

Manfred Weber, Christian Social Union politician and leader of the European Peoples Party group in the European Parliament, called on his parliamentary colleagues to declare all the EU candidate states collectively as “safe third countries”, and therefore anyone arriving from these countries into the EU could be denied a claim to asylum and be deported as quickly as possible.

French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius warned on Sunday of the need for a quick fix in the refugee crisis on the Greek-Macedonian border. The Czech foreign minister Lubomir Zaoralek spoke of an “extraordinary burden” for the government in Skopje, and expressed understanding for the brutal repression against the refugees.

The refugee issue will also be a topic at the Western Balkans conference on Thursday in Vienna. Thirty government leaders are meeting in the Austrian capital to discuss the large surge of asylum seekers from the region to Germany, Austria and other EU states. Among others, government heads from Albania, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and Kosovo will participate.

The Austrian Foreign Minister Sebastian Kurz (Austrian Peoples Party, ÖVP) travelled to Macedonia on Monday in order to obtain a picture of the situation in advance of the conference. In addition to meeting with his counterpart Nikola Poposki, a site inspection at the border with Greece was also planned. Kurz said that “more activity by the EU [was] needed” because of “huge challenges.”

What the government in Vienna means by “activity” was made clear just a few months ago, when the Foreign Ministry initiated a large-scale campaign in Kosovo to deter potential asylum seekers already there from entering Austria.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Mercury on August 26, 2015, 08:49:12 PM
“The Whole (Of) Syria Will Pass Through Serbia”: Belgrade To Face Five Million Refugees:

BELGRADE – At the beginning of autumn Serbia can expect another wave of refugees. And it will be much bigger than the one with 1,000 refugees from Syria who enter Serbia every day, writes Serbian daily “Blic”, citing information obtained from Serbian security services.

(http://i0.wp.com/inserbia.info/today/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/migrants-3.jpg?zoom=2&resize=700%2C467)

The second wave is expected to bring the poorest residents of Arab countries where the war with ISIS (ISIL/Islamic State) rages.

According to estimations of Serbian officials, about three million new immigrants are on the Turkish border, waiting to enter the EU through Greece, Macedonia and Serbia. Linky: http://bit.ly/1JnBUWn (http://bit.ly/1JnBUWn)

Where Is Neo When We Need Him?
The huge inflows of peoples from America’s massive slaughter of populations in seven countries, enabled by the Europeans themselves, is causing political consternation in Europe and the revival of far-right political parties. Linky: http://bit.ly/1NBQiya (http://bit.ly/1NBQiya)

Do you know what nemesis means?

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-DRYD4uKgl3M/TyFukPD9YPI/AAAAAAAABhg/6vBz24II1is/s1600/Do_you_know_what_nemesis_means.PNG)

Nemesis: A righteous distribution of justice manifested by an appropriate agent.  :D
Title: Hundreds of migrants rescued off Greek islands
Post by: RE on September 01, 2015, 01:27:54 AM
They're Comin' to Lesbos
They're Comin' to Lesbos


TODAY!

Looks like the population of Lesbians is going to increase.  :icon_mrgreen:

RE

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/hundreds-of-migrants-rescued-off-greek-islands-31492828.html (http://www.independent.ie/world-news/hundreds-of-migrants-rescued-off-greek-islands-31492828.html)

(http://cdn4.independent.ie/world-news/article31492827.ece/a286f/ALTERNATES/h342/PANews_P-7652d0c7-5665-4b9b-865e-e58703e521d7_I1.jpg)
A total of 2,492 people were rescued in 70 operations off the eastern islands of Lesbos, Chios, Samos, Agathonissi, Farmakonissi, Kos and Symi
Title: Budapest Rail station orders Evacuation due to Migrants
Post by: RE on September 01, 2015, 01:45:57 AM
They're Knockin' at the Gates of Vienna
They're Knockin' at the Gates of Vienna


TODAY!

Baron Bodissey will not be pleased.

RE

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/austria/11836027/Budapest-station-orders-evacuation-due-to-migrants-after-Vienna-sees-biggest-daily-influx-by-rail.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/austria/11836027/Budapest-station-orders-evacuation-due-to-migrants-after-Vienna-sees-biggest-daily-influx-by-rail.html)

(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03424/Budapest-station-m_3424856b.jpg)
Migrants gesture as they stand in the main Eastern Railway station in Budapest, Hungary Photo: REUTERS
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Mercury on September 03, 2015, 06:54:54 AM
Speaking with family on Kos, and by their estimate some 12,000 refugees are living on the island now. At the rate they're coming, the locals will be outnumbered by Christmas.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on September 03, 2015, 12:36:27 PM
Speaking with family on Kos, and by their estimate some 12,000 refugees are living on the island now. At the rate they're coming, the locals will be outnumbered by Christmas.

Any idea how they are being fed?

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on September 03, 2015, 12:44:29 PM
Not sure about Kos, but I caught a radio interview about the influx on Lesbos, and there it is said that most of the refugees are paying their own way, and that some local businesses are having a windfall. Obviously this can't continue indefinitely.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: K-Dog on September 03, 2015, 01:12:11 PM
Speaking with family on Kos, and by their estimate some 12,000 refugees are living on the island now. At the rate they're coming, the locals will be outnumbered by Christmas.

Any idea how they are being fed?

RE

If we are talking about the isle of Lesbos we know what is being eaten and it's not food.  The men might be getting frustrated and be having hangry attacks though. 

I imagine my comment might be offensive to some.  If so get a life because I'd donate to a cause that needs money to feed them in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on September 03, 2015, 01:26:36 PM
Apparently it really pisses off some people from Lesbos that homosexual females are even allowed to use the word lesbian. They've been to court over it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/greece/2445282/Lesbos-islanders-lose-lesbian-ban-court-case.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/greece/2445282/Lesbos-islanders-lose-lesbian-ban-court-case.html)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on September 03, 2015, 01:44:04 PM
Apparently it really pisses off some people from Lesbos that homosexual females are even allowed to use the word lesbian. They've been to court over it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/greece/2445282/Lesbos-islanders-lose-lesbian-ban-court-case.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/greece/2445282/Lesbos-islanders-lose-lesbian-ban-court-case.html)

Time for a Xena-Gabrielle Pic!  :icon_mrgreen:

(http://maggielassie.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/final_kiss.gif)

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on September 03, 2015, 02:29:00 PM
Speaking with family on Kos, and by their estimate some 12,000 refugees are living on the island now. At the rate they're coming, the locals will be outnumbered by Christmas.

Any idea how they are being fed?

RE

Take a close look at the people in the picture above. They use visa... not visa for travel,  visa credit card and some cash they converted to euros before they left. The wealthy, those eith over a million bucks easily buy their way into western countries,  not illegally its in policies. People with critical skills also have no problem moving legally. Those above are mostly in the middle. Their clothes are perfectly clean,  faces clean shaven so they didnt sleep on the ground Last night. I also read the locals in greece,  already struggling are feeding them.

 I just google searched  'Who is feeding eu refugees? and turned up a bunch of articles complaining about taxpayers paying for hotels and caterers.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9303722/italys-decriminalising-of-illegal-immigration-has-acted-as-a-green-light-to-boat-people/ (http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9303722/italys-decriminalising-of-illegal-immigration-has-acted-as-a-green-light-to-boat-people/)

http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/552206/Stephen-Pollard-on-French-immigration-and-Calais-refugee-camp (http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/552206/Stephen-Pollard-on-French-immigration-and-Calais-refugee-camp)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on September 03, 2015, 06:13:06 PM
Speaking with family on Kos, and by their estimate some 12,000 refugees are living on the island now. At the rate they're coming, the locals will be outnumbered by Christmas.

Any idea how they are being fed?

RE

Take a close look at the people in the picture above. They use visa... not visa for travel,  visa credit card and some cash they converted to euros before they left. The wealthy, those eith over a million bucks easily buy their way into western countries,  not illegally its in policies. People with critical skills also have no problem moving legally. Those above are mostly in the middle. Their clothes are perfectly clean,  faces clean shaven so they didnt sleep on the ground Last night. I also read the locals in greece,  already struggling are feeding them.

 I just google searched  'Who is feeding eu refugees? and turned up a bunch of articles complaining about taxpayers paying for hotels and caterers.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9303722/italys-decriminalising-of-illegal-immigration-has-acted-as-a-green-light-to-boat-people/ (http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9303722/italys-decriminalising-of-illegal-immigration-has-acted-as-a-green-light-to-boat-people/)

http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/552206/Stephen-Pollard-on-French-immigration-and-Calais-refugee-camp (http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/552206/Stephen-Pollard-on-French-immigration-and-Calais-refugee-camp)

I highly doubt all 12,000 refugees are millionaires.  They are probably the "middle class" of their former countries who maybe had €10K-20K they could liquidate to buy passage out and have enough to live on for a while.  Far as "critical skills", what skills would those be?  Greece can't pay their own Doctors and Nurses, or their Teachers, so exactly what critical skills would these folks be bringing with them the Greeks need so bad and have a job waiting for them when they show up?

As long as they do have some money and can pay for food and Hotel rooms the locals are OK hosting them, it's money flowing into the economy.  However, that money will run out in fair short order for most of them, and when it does there are no jobs for them.  They're just more warm bodies that will need help from an already bankrupt social welfare state.

RE
Title: The Official Refugee Thread: THEY'RE COMIN' TO HUNGARY! TODAY!
Post by: RE on September 03, 2015, 06:38:06 PM
THEY'RE COMIN' TO HUNGARY

THEY'RE COMIN' TO HUNGARY


TODAY!

RE

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-03/europes-refugee-crisis-out-control-hungary-pm-rages-german-problem-not-eu-problem (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-03/europes-refugee-crisis-out-control-hungary-pm-rages-german-problem-not-eu-problem)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: jdwheeler42 on September 03, 2015, 07:34:44 PM
If we are talking about the isle of Lesbos we know what is being eaten and it's not food.  The men might be getting frustrated and be having hangry attacks though. 

I imagine my comment might be offensive to some.  If so get a life because I'd donate to a cause that needs money to feed them in a heartbeat.
I want to let it be known that I fully support vaginatarians  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on September 04, 2015, 12:37:07 AM
Speaking with family on Kos, and by their estimate some 12,000 refugees are living on the island now. At the rate they're coming, the locals will be outnumbered by Christmas.

Any idea how they are being fed?

RE

Take a close look at the people in the picture above. They use visa... not visa for travel,  visa credit card and some cash they converted to euros before they left. The wealthy, those eith over a million bucks easily buy their way into western countries,  not illegally its in policies. People with critical skills also have no problem moving legally. Those above are mostly in the middle. Their clothes are perfectly clean,  faces clean shaven so they didnt sleep on the ground Last night. I also read the locals in greece,  already struggling are feeding them.

 I just google searched  'Who is feeding eu refugees? and turned up a bunch of articles complaining about taxpayers paying for hotels and caterers.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9303722/italys-decriminalising-of-illegal-immigration-has-acted-as-a-green-light-to-boat-people/ (http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9303722/italys-decriminalising-of-illegal-immigration-has-acted-as-a-green-light-to-boat-people/)

http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/552206/Stephen-Pollard-on-French-immigration-and-Calais-refugee-camp (http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/552206/Stephen-Pollard-on-French-immigration-and-Calais-refugee-camp)

I highly doubt all 12,000 refugees are millionaires.  They are probably the "middle class" of their former countries who maybe had €10K-20K they could liquidate to buy passage out and have enough to live on for a while.  Far as "critical skills", what skills would those be?  Greece can't pay their own Doctors and Nurses, or their Teachers, so exactly what critical skills would these folks be bringing with them the Greeks need so bad and have a job waiting for them when they show up?

As long as they do have some money and can pay for food and Hotel rooms the locals are OK hosting them, it's money flowing into the economy.  However, that money will run out in fair short order for most of them, and when it does there are no jobs for them.  They're just more warm bodies that will need help from an already bankrupt social welfare state.

RE

im guessing 12000 was a typo and u missed a zero...

I didnt make myself clear. If u have a million bucks or critical  skills u can emigrate to eg canada,  oz and im guessing usa easily, u dont do the refugee  thing. I agree those syrians pictured are their former middle class,  most somalis, afghans,  eritreans and soon also yemen dont have much money, it would be tough for them just to get the money for the below deck trip across the mediteranean. But its not about  jobs in greece they want to get to northern europe.. preferably scandinavia,  germany  or uk.  Not where u want to sleep outside or in canvas tents in winter when they run out of places.

I guarantee this advice gets ignored,

http://m.smh.com.au/world/tony-abbott's-asylum-seeker-polcies-are-'inhumane'-writes-the-new-york-times-20150903-gjes9a.html (http://m.smh.com.au/world/tony-abbott's-asylum-seeker-polcies-are-'inhumane'-writes-the-new-york-times-20150903-gjes9a.html)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Mercury on September 04, 2015, 03:54:25 AM
Speaking with family on Kos, and by their estimate some 12,000 refugees are living on the island now. At the rate they're coming, the locals will be outnumbered by Christmas.

Any idea how they are being fed?

RE

Fresh arrivals usually are carrying money, credit cards, or get money wired to them from relatives until it peters out. There are a couple of overstretched charities handing out stuff. The local government has provided some aid as have individual islanders. Don't know beyond that. This aid will all run out sooner or later, or be overwhelmed by the sheer weight of refugee numbers at some point in the near future. Kos, which has been Greek for 33 centuries is a goner, whether next year or in 10 years, unless the mine the waters...
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on September 04, 2015, 04:04:54 AM
Speaking with family on Kos, and by their estimate some 12,000 refugees are living on the island now. At the rate they're coming, the locals will be outnumbered by Christmas.

Any idea how they are being fed?

RE

Fresh arrivals usually are carrying money, credit cards, or get money wired to them from relatives until it peters out. There are a couple of overstretched charities handing out stuff. The local government has provided some aid as have individual islanders. Don't know beyond that. This aid will all run out sooner or later, or be overwhelmed by the sheer weight of refugee numbers at some point in the near future. Kos, which has been Greek for 33 centuries is a goner, whether next year or in 10 years, unless the mine the waters...

Looking at the map, it's barely off the coast of Turkey, you could practically swim to it.

(https://s.yimg.com/fz/api/res/1.2/jcZTcj7OnTIcHPXqkAjl3g--/YXBwaWQ9c3JjaGRkO2g9NzA5O3E9OTU7dz05OTk-/http://fermi.uchicago.edu/~smiles/images/greece.png)

The Greeks should just hand off Kos to the Turks and let them deal with the problem.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Mercury on September 04, 2015, 04:11:43 AM
Speaking with family on Kos, and by their estimate some 12,000 refugees are living on the island now. At the rate they're coming, the locals will be outnumbered by Christmas.

Any idea how they are being fed?

RE

Fresh arrivals usually are carrying money, credit cards, or get money wired to them from relatives until it peters out. There are a couple of overstretched charities handing out stuff. The local government has provided some aid as have individual islanders. Don't know beyond that. This aid will all run out sooner or later, or be overwhelmed by the sheer weight of refugee numbers at some point in the near future. Kos, which has been Greek for 33 centuries is a goner, whether next year or in 10 years, unless the mine the waters...

Looking at the map, it's barely off the coast of Turkey, you could practically swim to it.

(https://s.yimg.com/fz/api/res/1.2/jcZTcj7OnTIcHPXqkAjl3g--/YXBwaWQ9c3JjaGRkO2g9NzA5O3E9OTU7dz05OTk-/http://fermi.uchicago.edu/~smiles/images/greece.png)

The Greeks should just hand off Kos to the Turks and let them deal with the problem.

RE
The Greeks should just hand off Kos to the Turks and let them deal with the problem.

This is never going to happen, the island is armed to the teeth against any Turkish threat. In my village, there are 3 military bases alone including a tank company.

Apparently right-wing hooligans are roughing up the refugees, or anyone, including tourists, aiding them. Tear gas was also used for the first time, things are getting hairy.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on September 04, 2015, 04:32:50 AM

Apparently right-wing hooligans are roughing up the refugees, or anyone, including tourists, aiding them. Tear gas was also used for the first time, things are getting hairy.

See if your relatives can get any Vids!  I'll publish them on the Diner blog.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Mercury on September 04, 2015, 05:04:54 AM

Apparently right-wing hooligans are roughing up the refugees, or anyone, including tourists, aiding them. Tear gas was also used for the first time, things are getting hairy.

See if your relatives can get any Vids!  I'll publish them on the Diner blog.

RE

I have one but was asked not to share it publicly...will see what can be done in future. (How do you publish videos again?   :icon_scratch:)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on September 04, 2015, 05:07:59 AM

Apparently right-wing hooligans are roughing up the refugees, or anyone, including tourists, aiding them. Tear gas was also used for the first time, things are getting hairy.

See if your relatives can get any Vids!  I'll publish them on the Diner blog.

RE

I have one but was asked not to share it publicly...will see what can be done in future. (How do you publish videos again?   :icon_scratch:)

If you send me the file, I will load it to the Diner You Tube Channel.  I will maintain Anonymity done this way.

Alternatively, you can load to your own You Tube Channel and I will embed it.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Mercury on September 04, 2015, 05:11:58 AM

Apparently right-wing hooligans are roughing up the refugees, or anyone, including tourists, aiding them. Tear gas was also used for the first time, things are getting hairy.

See if your relatives can get any Vids!  I'll publish them on the Diner blog.

RE

I have one but was asked not to share it publicly...will see what can be done in future. (How do you publish videos again?   :icon_scratch:)

If you send me the file, I will load it to the Diner You Tube Channel.  I will maintain Anonymity done this way.

Alternatively, you can load to your own You Tube Channel and I will embed it.

RE

(http://www.stokokkino.gr/photos/810x460/kos-prosfyges-11432827135.jpg)

Outside the police station in Kos town.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on September 04, 2015, 05:24:07 AM

Apparently right-wing hooligans are roughing up the refugees, or anyone, including tourists, aiding them. Tear gas was also used for the first time, things are getting hairy.

See if your relatives can get any Vids!  I'll publish them on the Diner blog.

RE

I have one but was asked not to share it publicly...will see what can be done in future. (How do you publish videos again?   :icon_scratch:)

If you send me the file, I will load it to the Diner You Tube Channel.  I will maintain Anonymity done this way.

Alternatively, you can load to your own You Tube Channel and I will embed it.

RE

(http://www.stokokkino.gr/photos/810x460/kos-prosfyges-11432827135.jpg)

Outside the police station in Kos town.
Good start.

Also, any Quotes from emails or texts you get from relatives I will include Anonymously in the article.  No identities will be revealed and we are working through 3 levels here.  Very hard to identify anyone this way.  I can also inform you on how to use pgp encryption in your communications with them for another layer of security.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Mercury on September 04, 2015, 05:48:40 AM

Apparently right-wing hooligans are roughing up the refugees, or anyone, including tourists, aiding them. Tear gas was also used for the first time, things are getting hairy.

See if your relatives can get any Vids!  I'll publish them on the Diner blog.

RE

I have one but was asked not to share it publicly...will see what can be done in future. (How do you publish videos again?   :icon_scratch:)

If you send me the file, I will load it to the Diner You Tube Channel.  I will maintain Anonymity done this way.

Alternatively, you can load to your own You Tube Channel and I will embed it.

RE

(http://www.stokokkino.gr/photos/810x460/kos-prosfyges-11432827135.jpg)

Outside the police station in Kos town.
Good start.

Also, any Quotes from emails or texts you get from relatives I will include Anonymously in the article.  No identities will be revealed and we are working through 3 levels here.  Very hard to identify anyone this way.  I can also inform you on how to use pgp encryption in your communications with them for another layer of security.

RE

I will ask and see what they say... :)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on September 04, 2015, 06:27:48 AM
Refugees are Hungry in Hungary.

RE

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/11843189/EU-refugee-crisis-Migrants-in-Bicske-station-Hungary-siege-continues-overnight-live.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/11843189/EU-refugee-crisis-Migrants-in-Bicske-station-Hungary-siege-continues-overnight-live.html)

Refugee crisis: 'We have no food, no water. We are going to die,' say those on Hungary train for 24 hours - live
UN refugee agency says the UK will take 4,000 refugees as stand-off continues at Bicske station between Hungarian authorities and refugees.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on September 04, 2015, 02:36:33 PM
This is escalating quickly.

RE

http://www.globalresearch.ca/thousands-of-refugees-held-at-budapest-train-station/5473573 (http://www.globalresearch.ca/thousands-of-refugees-held-at-budapest-train-station/5473573)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Surly1 on September 05, 2015, 06:45:29 AM
(http://www.stokokkino.gr/photos/810x460/kos-prosfyges-11432827135.jpg)

Outside the police station in Kos town.

Norfolk, Virginia has solved this problem.

They have uprooted ALL benches in public parks and other public facilities, including outside the airport. Don't look for a place to rest your feet in Norfolk.

Part of Hizzoner's "ten year plan" to combat homelessness. Mostly by making life so miserable for them that they move across the water to Portsmouth.
Title: 'Tide of indifference' to refugees shifting but pockets of violence remain
Post by: RE on September 05, 2015, 06:17:19 PM
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/9/4/amid-wave-of-compassion-violence-against-refugees-pertains.html (http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/9/4/amid-wave-of-compassion-violence-against-refugees-pertains.html)

(http://america.aljazeera.com/content/ajam/articles/2015/9/4/amid-wave-of-compassion-violence-against-refugees-pertains/jcr:content/mainpar/adaptiveimage/src.adapt.960.high.2015_asylum_applications_Number_of_applications_chartbuilder.1441406879266.jpg)

'Tide of indifference' to refugees shifting but pockets of violence remain
Despite compassion seen since photo that shamed Europe, police report attacks in Germany and Greece
September 4, 2015 12:50PM ET
by Al Jazeera Staff

Despite a surge of compassionate support for the plight of refugees sparked by photos of a drowned Syrian toddler face down on a Turkish beach, pockets of violence against those seeking sanctuary in Europe remain, with attacks against asylum seekers in both Greece and Germany.

On the Greek island of Kos, a group of 15 to 25 men attacked refugees with bats and yelling “go back to your country,” according to Amnesty International staff, who witnessed the violence first hand. Police had to disperse the crowd using tear gas, according to the rights groups.

Also on Friday, five people were injured in a fire at a refugee shelter in Heppenheim, a small town in western Germany. The three-story building housed migrants from countries such as Somalia, Syria, Iraq and Ethiopia. In recent months, there have been more than 100 suspected arson attacks against refugee shelters.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel has condemned the spate of arson attacks, which came as resistance against immigration and resettlement of refugees in some part of the EU has increased. 
EU refugee crisis

At same time, the seemingly worsening refugee crisis has prompted a wave of compassion among Europeans looking to help. The image of three-year-old Alan Kurdi’s lifeless body on the shore in Bodrum, Turkey, created a surge of donations across the continent.

“There is an enormous response from the public, the tide of indifference is shifting," Christian Peregrin, spokesman for the Malta-based Migrant Offshore Aid Station, told Agence-France Presse.

The group received a record $750,000 since the photo went viral, it reported.

In the Netherlands, the Syrian boy’s fate "served as a massive catalyst" to generate awareness, a worker at the Dutch Refugee Council told AFP.

Alan, his four-year-old brother Galib and their mother Rehan drowned off the Turkish coast on Wednesday while trying to reach Europe across the Aegean Sea.

The United Nations refugee agency, UNHCR, said that it had "received a hundred thousand dollars of unsolicited funding on our global donate page, which we are sure was largely due to the photo of the Syrian toddler."

Europeans are also increasingly offering shelter to refugee families in need. In Spain, nearly a dozen Spanish town halls have created a register of cities, and people who can volunteer to take in refugees. Barcelona mayor Ada Colau said her city received thousands of offers. Other cities such as Madrid and Valencia have followed suit, the Associated Press reported.

In Germany, Fluchtlinge Wilkommen, or Refugees Welcome, a Berlin-based initiative, connects people with spare rooms to refugees. More than 780 households have opened up their homes since April, the group reported.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on September 05, 2015, 07:36:14 PM
Everyone is busy avoiding the fact that poor little Alan Kurdi came from Kobane, a town near the Turkish border that has been fought over back and forth until US bombing reduced the place to rubble and made it no longer a prize worth winning.  ISIS at least wanted to run the place as a town, albeit under Wahhabist guidelines.

Would you rather have this, Freedom and Democracy:

(http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/80718000/jpg/_80718787_kobane8.jpg)

or this, Terrorism:

(http://palloy.net/images/islamic.state.part.3.jpg)

Incidentally, while looking for images to show life under ISIS, I couldn't find ANYTHING on images.google.com except beheadings and crucifixions.  This screenshot came from a Vice News video "The Islamic State" Part 3 of 5, which is worth watching.  It is in Raqaa, and shows what life is like once the war has stopped. https://news.vice.com/video/the-islamic-state-part-1 (https://news.vice.com/video/the-islamic-state-part-1)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on September 05, 2015, 07:47:14 PM
Everyone is busy avoiding the fact that poor little Alan Kurdi came from Kobane, a town near the Turkish border that has been fought over back and forth until US bombing reduced the place to rubble and made it no longer a prize worth winning.  ISIS at least wanted to run the place as a town, albeit under Wahhabist guidelines.


Where does Kobane get its water?

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on September 05, 2015, 08:21:45 PM
Quote
Where does Kobane get its water?

GoogleEarth shows the area being very flat and dry creek beds running every which way.  It is 30 Km from the Euphrates, which runs from Turkey into Syria. 

Why?
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on September 05, 2015, 08:39:12 PM
Quote
Where does Kobane get its water?

GoogleEarth shows the area being very flat and dry creek beds running every which way.  It is 30 Km from the Euphrates, which runs from Turkey into Syria. 

Why?

Because a lot of the Syrian problems are related to drought and water depletion.

Numerous towns inhabited since Biblical Times have had to be abandoned.  The population from those places migrates to cities where there is no work for these people.  They have at least as big an internal refugee problem as the ones with enough means to try and escape to Northern Europe.

Syria is at the leading edge of places trying to depopulate.  They cannot support the population they currently have.

RE
Title: Researchers Link Syrian Conflict to a Drought Made Worse by Climate Change
Post by: RE on September 05, 2015, 09:11:41 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/03/science/earth/study-links-syria-conflict-to-drought-caused-by-climate-change.html?_r=1 (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/03/science/earth/study-links-syria-conflict-to-drought-caused-by-climate-change.html?_r=1)
Title: Syria's Climate-Fueled Conflict, In One Stunning Comic Strip
Post by: RE on September 06, 2015, 01:20:24 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/03/science/earth/study-links-syria-conflict-to-drought-caused-by-climate-change.html?_r=1 (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/03/science/earth/study-links-syria-conflict-to-drought-caused-by-climate-change.html?_r=1)

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/05/syria-climate-years-living-dangerously-symbolia (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/05/syria-climate-years-living-dangerously-symbolia)

(http://www.motherjones.com/files/symbolia-13.gif)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Surly1 on September 06, 2015, 05:40:32 AM
(https://scontent.fash1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlp1/t31.0-8/11952883_10153212220351312_7822943085581564032_o.jpg)
Title: Refugees March On Austria After Hungary Blocks Trains
Post by: Surly1 on September 06, 2015, 06:08:05 AM
Refugees March On Austria After Hungary Blocks Trains (https://www.popularresistance.org/refugees-march-on-austria-after-hungary-blocks-trains/)

 

 

Around 2000 people have been stuck in Budapest after being prevented from traveling to Hungary [Reuters]

Hundreds of mostly Syrian refugees have begun marching to the Austrian border after being prevented from boarding trains to Germany in the Hungarian capital Budapest.

Authorities appeared to be allowing groups of refugees to make the 170km journey to the border crossing on Friday amid tense scenes across the country.

Al Jazeera’s Andrew Simmons, reporting from near the M1 and M7 motorways outside Budapest, said authorities appeared to be helping the refugees make the journey despite fears the road would be blocked.

“There are hundreds of people who have marched something like 10km from the centre of Budapest from the rail station to here…they say they have no option but to do this.

“It may sound far fetched but they’re intent on reaching the border.

“The refugees were panicking because they thought the motorway had been blocked off…that road-block was in fact there to help them rather than hinder them.”

Simmons said Hungarian volunteers were laying out water bottles to help the refugees marching in sweltering conditions.

Bicske stand-off

Our correspondent said the situation outside Budapest was the “opposite” of what was happening in Bicske, 30km west of Budapest, where hundreds of refugees have broken through police lines and fled after a tense stand-off on a train.

Police were able to stop only a minority of an estimated 500 people from leaving the train. Police pushed those they blocked back onto the carriages amid much shouting and screaming and infants crying, the AP news agency reported.

Al Jazeera’s Mohammed Jamjoom reporting from Bicske said those fleeing were pursued by riot police and at least one man, believed to be from Pakistan, died after the escape attempt.

The group of mainly Syrians and Afghans are refusing to be sent to refugee centres in Hungary and instead want to travel to northern European countries.

“They want to go to other countries, particularly Germany. They do not want to stay in Hungary,” Jamjoom reported from the scene of the standoff.

“They are shouting ‘No food, no water’ as they are in need of supplies. They are also holding signs saying, ‘No camp, no Hungary, freedom train’,” our correspondent said.

Meanwhile, Hungary shut its main border crossing with Serbia after about 300 migrants escaped from a nearby refugee camp, police said.

“In the interest of preventing accidents, the police have temporarily closed the Roszke motorway border crossing to incoming traffic and are redirecting traffic to (a national road),” police said in statement.

The move came after around 300 people broke through a fence of a nearby refugee camp.

“The police have taken the necessary steps to apprehend them,” police said, according to the AFP news agency.

Anti-immigration law

Hungary has become one of the flashpoints in Europe’s refugee crisis in recent weeks, as thousands of refugees cross into the country on their way to Germany, which recently eased asylum restrictions for Syrians.

The stand-off came as Hungarian politicians prepared to debate tough new anti-immigration measures, including criminalising illegal border crossing and vandalism to the new anti-immigrant razor-wire fence erected along the border with Serbia.

An estimated 2,000 migrants remained sheltered in a concourse underneath Budapest’s Keleti station on Friday, waiting for trains to take them towards northern and western Europe.

Hungary’s handling of the refugees, who have been stuck for days, sometimes even weeks, in makeshift camps at the station, has caused confusion and anger.

After unexpectedly allowing several thousand to board trains for Austria and Germany on Monday, authorities suspended services for 48 hours, then reopened the station on Thursday, only to have the national railways announce that it was suspending service to western Europe for “security reasons”.

 
Title: Turning the Cradle of Civilization Into its Graveyard
Post by: RE on September 07, 2015, 06:07:55 PM
Turning the Cradle of Civilization Into its Graveyard (http://www.greanvillepost.com/2015/09/07/turning-the-cradle-of-civilization-into-its-graveyard/)

Author TGP STAFF Date September 7, 2015

DATELINE: PARIS, SEPTEMBER 7, 2015 | DIANA JOHNSTONE
Washington's paws in Paris: Fabius (l) and Hollande. A disgrace in many respects.

(http://www.greanvillepost.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/laurentFabius-Hollande.jpg)
Washington’s pawns in Paris: Laurent Fabius (l) and Hollande. A disgrace in many respects, but typical of the new vassalage instituted by Washington via prostituted politicians.

This Monday, September 7, seven Syrian citizens go to court in Paris to pursue their civil suit against French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius. The five men and two women all lost family members and close friends in massacres by armed rebels supported by Fabius in word and deed. They are asking for one euro of symbolic damages.

In the end the suit will almost surely be thrown out. The September 7 hearing is on an appeal against an earlier ruling that the courts cannot judge acts of the government in this case, even if the complaint is founded. And yet this futile lawsuit makes a crucial point that Western politicians and media would much prefer to ignore.

Western leaders share major responsibility for making much of the world unfit for normal human habitation. And so far, they are getting away with it. The massive refugee crisis swamping Europe is just the beginning of the troubles that these unscrupulous leaders have brought on their own countries.

Laurent Fabius can fairly be called a French neoconservative. His alignment with Israeli policies is seen in the fact that he was the most reluctant of the foreign ministers involved in the Iranian nuclear negotiations to agree to the final settlement.

He has been one of the most gung-ho advocates of regime change in Syria, a country long on the neocon hit list for its Arab nationalism and support for the Palestinian cause.

Western leaders share major responsibility for making much of the world unfit for normal human habitation.Screen Shot 2015-08-22 at 7.41.15 PM

 

The Syrian plaintiffs note that:

    Fabius: overt promoter of international war crimes, but above the law, and therefore untouchable.

    Fabius: Overt promoter of international war crimes, but above the law, and therefore untouchable.

    * On May 29, 2012, Fabius declared that France would intervene against the Syrian regime.

    * On August 17, 2012, Fabius declared that Syrian President Bashar el Assad “did not deserve to be alive on earth”.

    * On December 14, 2012, speaking out against the Obama administration decision to designate the Al Nusra Front as a terrorist group, Fabius objected that the Al Nusra Front was “doing a good job on the ground”.

    * On March 13, 2013, Fabius announced that France and Britain were going to deliver arms to the rebels.

As a group, the plaintiffs maintain that by his declarations, Foreign Minister Fabius stirred up civil war in Syria and encouraged armed rebel attacks against the existing government. Individually, each of the plaintiffs lost family members and close friends in armed attacks and massacres carried out by the al Nusra militia allied rebel groups.

(http://uziiw38pmyg1ai60732c4011.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/dropzone/2015/09/europe-migrants-balkans-510x287.jpg)

Israel’s Ghastly Twin: the “Islamic State”

Under U.S. leadership and Israeli influence, French political leaders have championed “regime change” in Libya and Syria on the tacit assumption that civil war would be better for the people of those countries than living under a “dictatorship”. In practice, however, most people can get along better without a vote than without a roof over their heads. Or without their heads.

It is hardly surprising that the carefully filmed and diffused videos of “Islamic State” (IS) disciplinary methods have caused panic among people living in their path of conquest.

War causes people to become refugees. Western media pay close attention to refugees only when they like the “story”. Huge attention was paid to Kosovo Albanians fleeing temporarily from the 1999 NATO war against the Serbs, because those refugees could be described as victims of Serbian “ethnic cleansing” and thus as justification of the NATO war itself.

But no such media concern was aroused over the much greater number of refugees who fled from the 2003 United States invasion of Iraq and have never returned. Over a million Iraqi refugees fled into Syria, where they were well received.

The situation in the Middle East is critical. Armed by leftover U.S. military equipment in Iraq, enriched by illicit oil sales, its ranks swollen by young Jihadis from all over the world, the Islamic State threatens the people of Lebanon and Jordan, already struggling to take care of masses of refugees from Palestine, Iraq and now Syria. Fear of the decapitating Islamic fanatics is inciting more and more people to risk everything in order to get to safety in Europe.

The Islamic State is truly the horrible enemy caricature of the “Jewish State”, another political entity based on an exclusive religious identity. Like Israel it has no clearly defined borders, but with a vastly larger potential demographic base.

The only force that can stop the Islamic State from expanding its fanatic rule over all of Mesopotamia and beyond is the Syrian State led by Bashar al Assad. The choice is not between Assad and “Western democracy”. The choice is between Assad and the Islamic State. But Western leaders have still not fully dropped their demented cry: “Assad must go!”

Refugees, Migrants and Terrorists
The front pages of some of Britain's daily newspapers showing an image of the body of Syrian three-year-old boy Aylan are pictured in London, on September 3, 2015. The image spread like lightning through social media and dominated front pages from Spain to Sweden, with commentators unanimous it had rammed home the horrors faced by those fleeing war and conflict in the Middle East and Africa. AFP PHOTO/JUSTIN TALLIS

The front pages of some of Britain’s daily newspapers showing an image of the body of Syrian three-year-old boy Aylan are pictured in London, on September 3, 2015. The image spread like lightning through social media and dominated front pages from Spain to Sweden, with commentators unanimous it had rammed home the horrors faced by those fleeing war and conflict in the Middle East and Africa. AFP PHOTO/JUSTIN TALLIS



The results of this madness are washing up on the shores of the Mediterranean. Images and sentiment have replaced thinking about causes and effects. One photo of a drowned toddler causes a media and political uproar. Are people surprised? Didn’t they know that toddlers were being torn to pieces by U.S. bombing of Iraq, by U.S. drones in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen? What about the toddlers obliterated by NATO’s war to “free Libya” from its “dictator”?

The current refugee crisis in Europe is the inevitable, foreseeable, predicted result of Western policy in the Middle East and North Africa. Gaddafi’s Libya was the wall that kept hundreds of thousands of Africans from migrating illegally to Europe, not only by police methods but even more effectively by offering them development at home and decently paid jobs in Libya. Now Libya is the source both of economic migrants and of refugees from Libya itself, as well as from other lands of desperation. In order to weaken Sudan, the United States (and Susan Rice in particular) championed creation of the new country of South Sudan, which is not a country at all but the scene of rival massacres driving more and more fugitives toward unwelcoming countries.

Screen Shot 2015-08-22 at 7.41.15 PMmigrants-medgravemain1apr14-468214

The famous photo of little Aylan drowned in the Mediterranean is used very largely to make Europeans feel guilty. The leaders should indeed feel guilty – and not least the rich egomaniac Bernard-Henri Lévy, who prides himself on having talked the French government of Nicolas Sarkozy into starting war against Libya, where, he claimed, there were no Islamic extremists, but only pro-Westerners yearning for democracy. Thanks to NATO, Islamic extremists have since run roughshod over the whole country.
Bernard Henri-Levy: BHL, the excremental French fake intellectual adored by the capitalist media. Here enjoying the pleasures of fame and money with his wife., Arielle Dombasle. One more proof there is no God.

Bernard Henri-Levy: BHL, the excremental French fake intellectual adored by the capitalist media, a regular on Charlie Rose. Here enjoying the pleasures of fame and money with his wife, Arielle Dombasle. One more proof there is no God.

 

German Chancellor Angela Merkel has agreed to take in eight hundred thousand Syrian refugees. This is admirable on humanitarian grounds. Germany is economically strong and demographically weak; with its gradually shrinking population, middle class Syrians, many of them terrified Christians, may seem to be a welcome addition to the population. But it deepens political divisions within Germany and in Europe.

This is particularly the case in the new EU countries of Eastern Europe. Starting with Hungary, their leaders are making it clear that those countries are above all concerned with their ethnic identity, and don’t want to take in a lot of people who don’t speak their language. Unlike countries of Western Europe, the Eastern European tier of ethnic states have no tradition of taking in immigrants and no ideological attachment to the Western human rights ideology. In Eastern Europe, “human rights” sounded good to use against Russia and the Soviet Union, but stops there.

The Greek crisis already put heavy strains on the unity of the European Union. For the first time, many people are questioning the whole idea. The crisis showed that there is no real sense of solidarity between the peoples of Europe; when it comes to the crunch, Germans are Germans and Greeks are Greeks, and “European” is an abstraction. The refugee crisis is showing new cracks in “European unity”.

Most of Europe today is suffering from massive unemployment, especially the Southern countries where refugees first land: Greece, Italy, Spain. European Union economic policies, already strangling Greece, do not favor job creation for hundreds of thousands of newcomers. Even professionally qualified refugees will find it difficult or impossible to get around rules protecting their professions in host countries. Most jobs they manage to get will probably be low level and illegal, undercutting wages and working conditions in the host countries.

Moreover, it is impossible in the present mass movement of people to distinguish “refugees” from economic “migrants” – that is, from men simply seeking better work opportunities. The EU today has little to offer then, and resentment of this unsought immigration is certain to improve the political fortunes of the nationalist right.

There is another reason that many European citizens feel less than enthusiastic about welcoming hundreds of thousands of unknown foreigners into their communities. The Islamic State has openly boasted of sending terrorists into Europe among the refugees, with the clear intention of committing violent acts to destabilize the West. Of course, the threat of terrorism is being used cynically by governments to enforce police state measures, but that does not mean that the threat of terrorism is unreal. Unfortunately, it exists – thanks very largely to the policies of those very same Western governments.

The refugee crisis should be seen as the warning signal that the United States and its NATO allies – especially Britain and France – are bringing the world to a state of chaos that is going to keep spreading and that is approaching a point of no return.   It is quick and easy to break things. Putting them back together may be impossible. Civilization itself may be more fragile than it seems.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Mercury on September 08, 2015, 03:49:24 PM

Apparently right-wing hooligans are roughing up the refugees, or anyone, including tourists, aiding them. Tear gas was also used for the first time, things are getting hairy.

See if your relatives can get any Vids!  I'll publish them on the Diner blog.

RE

I have one but was asked not to share it publicly...will see what can be done in future. (How do you publish videos again?   :icon_scratch:)

If you send me the file, I will load it to the Diner You Tube Channel.  I will maintain Anonymity done this way.

Alternatively, you can load to your own You Tube Channel and I will embed it.

RE

I have 4 videos, but limited internet connection at present.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on September 08, 2015, 09:34:41 PM

I have 4 videos, but limited internet connection at present.

Throw them on a CD-ROM and Snail Mail them to me if it is OK to publish them.  I'll send you my address in PM.

RE
Title: Refugee Rant in the Can!
Post by: RE on September 08, 2015, 09:41:49 PM
I got my Refugee Rant recorded and edited.  First Rant in at least a month.

The Fans have been filling my email and I can't disapoint the Little People.  :icon_mrgreen:

(http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Superstar-Doom.gif)
RE, Superstar of Doom TM
Title: How Neocons Destabilized Europe
Post by: Surly1 on September 09, 2015, 03:42:03 AM
How Neocons Destabilized Europe (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article42794.htm)

The neocon prescription of endless “regime change” is spreading chaos across the Middle East and now into Europe, yet the neocons still control the mainstream U.S. narrative and thus have diagnosed the problem as not enough “regime change,”

By Robert Parry

September 08, 2015 "Information Clearing House" - "Consortiumnews" -  The refugee chaos that is now pushing deep into Europe – dramatized by gut-wrenching photos of Syrian toddler Aylan Kurdi whose body washed up on a beach in Turkey – started with the cavalier ambitions of American neocons and their liberal-interventionist sidekicks who planned to remake the Middle East and other parts of the world through “regime change.”

Instead of the promised wonders of “democracy promotion” and “human rights,” what these “anti-realists” have accomplished is to spread death, destruction and destabilization across the Middle East and parts of Africa and now into Ukraine and the heart of Europe. Yet, since these neocon forces still control the Official Narrative, their explanations get top billing – such as that there hasn’t been enough “regime change.”

For instance, The Washington Post’s neocon editorial page editor Fred Hiatt on Monday blamed “realists” for the cascading catastrophes. Hiatt castigated them and President Barack Obama for not intervening more aggressively in Syria to depose President Bashar al-Assad, a longtime neocon target for “regime change.”

But the truth is that this accelerating spread of human suffering can be traced back directly to the unchecked influence of the neocons and their liberal fellow-travelers who have resisted political compromise and, in the case of Syria, blocked any realistic efforts to work out a power-sharing agreement between Assad and his political opponents, those who are not terrorists.

In early 2014, the neocons and liberal hawks sabotaged Syrian peace talks in Geneva by blocking Iran’s participation and turning the peace conference into a one-sided shouting match where U.S.-funded opposition leaders yelled at Assad’s representatives who then went home. All the while, the Post’s editors and their friends kept egging Obama to start bombing Assad’s forces.

The madness of this neocon approach grew more obvious in the summer of 2014 when the Islamic State, an Al Qaeda spinoff which had been slaughtering suspected pro-government people in Syria, expanded its bloody campaign of beheadings back into Iraq where this hyper-brutal movement first emerged as “Al Qaeda in Iraq” in response to the 2003 U.S. invasion.

It should have been clear by mid-2014 that if the neocons had gotten their way and Obama had conducted a massive U.S. bombing campaign to devastate Assad’s military, the black flag of Sunni terrorism might well be flying above the Syrian capital of Damascus while its streets would run red with blood.

But now a year later, the likes of Hiatt still have not absorbed that lesson — and the spreading chaos from neocon strategies is destabilizing Europe. As shocking and disturbing as that is, none of it should have come as much of a surprise, since the neocons have always brought chaos and dislocations in their wake.

When I first encountered the neocons in the 1980s, they had been given Central America to play with. President Ronald Reagan had credentialed many of them, bringing into the U.S. government neocon luminaries such as Elliott Abrams and Robert Kagan. But Reagan mostly kept them out of the big-power realms: the Mideast and Europe.

Those strategic areas went to the “adults,” people like James Baker, George Shultz, Philip Habib and Brent Scowcroft. The poor Central Americans, as they tried to shed generations of repression and backwardness imposed by brutal right-wing oligarchies, faced U.S. neocon ideologues who unleashed death squads and even genocideagainst peasants, students and workers.

The result – not surprisingly – was a flood of refugees, especially from El Salvador and Guatemala, northward to the United States. The neocon “success” in the 1980s, crushing progressive social movements and reinforcing the oligarchic controls, left most countries of Central America in the grip of corrupt regimes and crime syndicates, periodically driving more waves of what Reagan called “feet people” through Mexico to the southern U.S. border.

Messing Up the Mideast

But the neocons weren’t satisfied sitting at the kids’ table. Even during the Reagan administration, they tried to squeeze themselves among the “adults” at the grown-ups’ table. For instance, neocons, such as Robert McFarlane and Paul Wolfowitz, pushed Israel-friendly policies toward Iran, which the Israelis then saw as a counterweight to Iraq. That strategy led eventually to the Iran-Contra Affair, the worst scandal of the Reagan administration. [See Consortiumnews.com’s “When Israel /Neocons Favored Iran.”]

However, the right-wing and mainstream U.S. media never liked the complex Iran-Contra story and thus exposure of the many levels of the scandal’s criminality was avoided. Democrats also preferred compromise to confrontation. So, most of the key neocons survived the Iran-Contra fallout, leaving their ranks still firmly in place for the next phase of their rise to power.

In the 1990s, the neocons built up a well-funded infrastructure of think tanks and media outlets, benefiting from both the largesse of military contractors donating to think tanks and government-funded operations like the National Endowment for Democracy, headed by neocon Carl Gershman.

The neocons gained more political momentum from the U.S. military might displayed during the Persian Gulf War of 1990-91. Many Americans began to see war as fun, almost like a video game in which “enemy” forces get obliterated from afar. On TV news shows, tough-talking pundits were all the rage. If you wanted to be taken seriously, you couldn’t go wrong taking the most macho position, what I sometimes call the “er-er-er” growling effect.

Combined with the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, the notion that U.S. military supremacy was unmatched and unchallengeable gave rise to neocon theories about turning “diplomacy” into nothing more than the delivery of U.S. ultimatums. In the Middle East, that was a view shared by Israeli hardliners, who had grown tired of negotiating with the Palestinians and other Arabs.

Instead of talk, there would be “regime change” for any government that would not fall into line. This strategy was articulated in 1996 when a group of American neocons, including Richard Perle and Douglas Feith, went to work for Benjamin Netanyahu’s campaign in Israel and compiled a strategy paper, called “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm.”

Iraq was first on the neocon hit list, but next came Syria and Iran. The overriding idea was that once the regimes assisting the Palestinians and Hezbollah were removed or neutralized, then Israel could dictate peace terms to the Palestinians who would have no choice but to accept what was on the table.

In 1998, the neocon Project for the New American Century, founded by neocons Robert Kagan and William Kristol, called for a U.S. invasion of Iraq, but President Bill Clinton balked at something that extreme. The situation changed, however, when President George W. Bush took office and the 9/11 attacks terrified and infuriated the American public.

Suddenly, the neocons had a Commander-in-Chief who agreed with the need to eliminate Iraq’s Saddam Hussein – and Americans were easily persuaded although Iraq and Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11. [See Consortiumnews.com’s “The Mysterious Why of the Iraq War.”]

The Death of ‘Realism’

The 2003 Iraq invasion sounded the death knell for foreign policy “realism” in Official Washington. Aging or dead, the old adult voices were silent or ignored. From Congress and the Executive Branch to the think tanks and the mainstream news media, almost all the “opinion leaders” were neocons and many liberals fell into line behind Bush’s case for war.

And, even though the Iraq War “group think” was almost entirely wrong, both on the WMD justifications for war and the “cakewalk” expectations for remaking Iraq, almost no one who promoted the fiasco suffered punishment for either the illegality of the invasion or the absence of sanity in promoting such a harebrained scheme.

Instead of negative repercussions, the Iraq War backers – the neocons and their liberal-hawk accomplices – essentially solidified their control over U.S. foreign policy and the major news media. From The New York Times and The Washington Post to the Brookings Institution and the American Enterprise Institute, the “regime change” agenda continued to hold sway.

It didn’t even matter when the sectarian warfare unleashed in Iraq left hundreds of thousands dead, displaced millions and gave rise to Al Qaeda’s ruthless Iraq affiliate. Not even the 2008 election of Barack Obama, an Iraq War opponent, changed this overall dynamic.

Rather than standing up to this new foreign policy establishment, Obama bowed to it, retaining key players from President Bush’s national security team, such as Defense Secretary Robert Gates and General David Petraeus, and by hiring hawkish Democrats, including Sen. Hillary Clinton, who became Secretary of State, and Samantha Power at the National Security Council.

Thus, the cult of “regime change” did not just survive the Iraq disaster; it thrived. Whenever a difficult foreign problem emerged, the go-to solution was still “regime change,” accompanied by the usual demonizing of a targeted leader, support for the “democratic opposition” and calls for military intervention. President Obama, arguably a “closet realist,” found himself as the foot-dragger-in-chief as he reluctantly was pulled along on one “regime change” crusade after another.

In 2011, for instance, Secretary of State Clinton and National Security Council aide Power persuaded Obama to join with some hot-for-war European leaders to achieve “regime change” in Libya, where Muammar Gaddafi had gone on the offensive against groups in eastern Libya that he identified as Islamic terrorists.

But Clinton and Power saw the case as a test for their theories of “humanitarian warfare” – or “regime change” to remove a “bad guy” like Gaddafi from power. Obama soon signed on and, with the U.S. military providing crucial technological support, a devastating bombing campaign destroyed Gaddafi’s army, drove him from Tripoli, and ultimately led to his torture-murder.

‘We Came, We Saw, He Died’

Secretary Clinton scurried to secure credit for this “regime change.” According to one email chain in August 2011, her longtime friend and personal adviser Sidney Blumenthal praised the bombing campaign to destroy Gaddafi’s army and hailed the dictator’s impending ouster.

“First, brava! This is a historic moment and you will be credited for realizing it,” Blumenthal wrote on Aug. 22, 2011. “When Qaddafi himself is finally removed, you should of course make a public statement before the cameras wherever you are, even in the driveway of your vacation home. … You must go on camera. You must establish yourself in the historical record at this moment. … The most important phrase is: ‘successful strategy.’”

Clinton forwarded Blumenthal’s advice to Jake Sullivan, a close State Department aide. “Pls read below,” she wrote. “Sid makes a good case for what I should say, but it’s premised on being said after Q[addafi] goes, which will make it more dramatic. That’s my hesitancy, since I’m not sure how many chances I’ll get.”

Sullivan responded, saying “it might make sense for you to do an op-ed to run right after he falls, making this point. … You can reinforce the op-ed in all your appearances, but it makes sense to lay down something definitive, almost like the Clinton Doctrine.”

However, when Gaddafi abandoned Tripoli that day, President Obama seized the moment to make a triumphant announcement. Clinton’s opportunity to highlight her joy at the Libyan “regime change” had to wait until Oct. 20, 2011, when Gaddafi was captured, tortured and murdered.

In a TV interview, Clinton celebrated the news when it appeared on her cell phone and paraphrased Julius Caesar’s famous line after Roman forces achieved a resounding victory in 46 B.C. and he declared, “veni, vidi, vici” – “I came, I saw, I conquered.” Clinton’s reprise of Caesar’s boast went: “We came; we saw; he died.” She then laughed and clapped her hands.

Presumably, the “Clinton Doctrine” would have been a policy of “liberal interventionism” to achieve “regime change” in countries where there is some crisis in which the leader seeks to put down an internal security threat and where the United States objects to the action.

But the problem with Clinton’s boasting about the “Clinton Doctrine” was that the Libyan adventure quickly turned sour with the Islamic terrorists, whom Gaddafi had warned about, seizing wide swaths of territory and turning it into another Iraq-like badlands.

On Sept. 11, 2012, this reality hit home when the U.S. consulate in Benghazi was overrun and U.S. Ambassador Christopher Stevens and three other American diplomatic personnel were killed. It turned out that Gaddafi wasn’t entirely wrong about the nature of his opposition.

Eventually, the extremist violence in Libya grew so out of control that the United States and European countries abandoned their embassies in Tripoli. Since then, Islamic State terrorists have begun decapitating Coptic Christians on Libyan beaches and slaughtering other “heretics.” Amid the anarchy, Libya has become a route for desperate migrants seeking passage across the Mediterranean to Europe.

A War on Assad

Parallel to the “regime change” in Libya was a similar enterprise in Syria in which the neocons and liberal interventionists pressed for the overthrow of President Bashar al-Assad, whose government in 2011 cracked down on what had quickly become a violent rebellion led by extremist elements, though the Western propaganda portrayed the opposition as “moderate” and “peaceful.”

For the first years of the Syrian civil war, the pretense remained that these “moderate” rebels were facing unjustified repression and the only answer was “regime change” in Damascus. Assad’s claim that the opposition included many Islamic extremists was largely dismissed as were Gaddafi’s alarms in Libya.

On Aug. 21, 2013, a sarin gas attack outside Damascus killed hundreds of civilians and the U.S. State Department and the mainstream news media immediately blamed Assad’s forces amid demands for military retaliation against the Syrian army.

Despite doubts within the U.S. intelligence community about Assad’s responsibility for the sarin attack, which some analysts saw instead as a provocation by anti-Assad terrorists, the clamor from Official Washington’s neocons and liberal interventionists for war was intense and any doubts were brushed aside.

But President Obama, aware of the uncertainty within the U.S. intelligence community, held back from a military strike and eventually worked out a deal, brokered by Russian President Vladimir Putin, in which Assad agreed to surrender his entire chemical-weapons arsenal while still denying any role in the sarin attack.

Though the case pinning the sarin attack on the Syrian government eventually fell apart – with evidence pointing to a “false flag” operation by Sunni radicals to trick the United States into intervening on their side – Official Washington’s “group think” refused to reconsider the initial rush to judgment. In Monday’s column, Hiatt still references Assad’s “savagery of chemical weapons.”

Any suggestion that the only realistic option in Syria is a power-sharing compromise that would include Assad – who is viewed as the protector of Syria’s Christian, Shiite and Alawite minorities – is rejected out of hand with the slogan, “Assad must go!”

The neocons have created a conventional wisdom which holds that the Syrian crisis would have been prevented if only Obama had followed the neocons’ 2011 prescription of another U.S. intervention to force another “regime change.” Yet, the far more likely outcome would have been either another indefinite and bloody U.S. military occupation of Syria or the black flag of Islamic terrorism flying over Damascus.

Get Putin

Another villain who emerged from the 2013 failure to bomb Syria was Russian President Putin, who infuriated the neocons by his work with Obama on Syria’s surrender of its chemical weapons and who further annoyed the neocons by helping to get the Iranians to negotiate seriously on constraining their nuclear program. Despite the “regime change” disasters in Iraq and Libya, the neocons wanted to wave the “regime change” wand again over Syria and Iran.

Putin got his comeuppance when U.S. neocons, including NED President Carl Gershman and Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs Victoria Nuland (Robert Kagan’s wife), helped orchestrate a “regime change” in Ukraine on Feb. 22, 2014, overthrowing elected President Viktor Yanukovych and putting in a fiercely anti-Russian regime on Russia’s border.

As thrilled as the neocons were with their “victory” in Kiev and their success in demonizing Putin in the mainstream U.S. news media, Ukraine followed the now-predictable post-regime-change descent into a vicious civil war. Western Ukrainians waged a brutal “anti-terrorist operation” against ethnic Russians in the east who resisted the U.S.-backed coup.

Thousands of Ukrainians died and millions were displaced as Ukraine’s national economy teetered toward collapse. Yet, the neocons and their liberal-hawk friends again showed their propaganda skills by pinning the blame for everything on “Russian aggression” and Putin.

Though Obama was apparently caught off-guard by the Ukrainian “regime change,” he soon joined in denouncing Putin and Russia. The European Union also got behind U.S.-demanded sanctions against Russia despite the harm those sanctions also inflicted on Europe’s already shaky economy. Europe’s stability is now under additional strain because of the flows of refugees from the war zones of the Middle East.

A Dozen Years of Chaos

So, we can now look at the consequences and costs of the past dozen years under the spell of neocon/liberal-hawk “regime change” strategies. According to many estimates, the death toll in Iraq, Syria and Libya has exceeded one million with several million more refugees flooding into – and stretching the resources – of fragile Mideast countries.

Hundreds of thousands of other refugees and migrants have fled to Europe, putting major strains on the Continent’s social structures already stressed by the severe recession that followed the 2008 Wall Street crash. Even without the refugee crisis, Greece and other southern European countries would be struggling to meet their citizens’ needs.

Stepping back for a moment and assessing the full impact of neoconservative policies, you might be amazed at how widely they have spread chaos across a large swath of the globe. Who would have thought that the neocons would have succeeded in destabilizing not only the Mideast but Europe as well.

And, as Europe struggles, the export markets of China are squeezed, spreading economic instability to that crucial economy and, with its market shocks, the reverberations rumbling back to the United States, too.

We now see the human tragedies of neocon/liberal-hawk ideologies captured in the suffering of the Syrians and other refugees flooding Europe and the death of children drowning as their desperate families flee the chaos created by “regime change.” But will the neocon/liberal-hawk grip on Official Washington finally be broken? Will a debate even be allowed about the dangers of “regime change” prescriptions in the future?

Not if the likes of The Washington Post’s Fred Hiatt have anything to say about it. The truth is that Hiatt and other neocons retain their dominance of the mainstream U.S. news media, so all that one can expect from the various MSM outlets is more neocon propaganda, blaming the chaos not on their policy of “regime change” but on the failure to undertake even more “regime change.”

The one hope is that many Americans will not be fooled this time and that a belated “realism” will finally return to U.S. geopolitical strategies that will look for obtainable compromises to restore some political order to places such as Syria, Libya and Ukraine. Rather than more and more tough-guy/gal confrontations, maybe there will finally be some serious efforts at reconciliation.

But the other reality is that the interventionist forces have rooted themselves deeply in Official Washington, inside NATO, within the mainstream news media and even in European institutions. It will not be easy to rid the world of the grave dangers created by neocon policies.

Investigative reporter Robert Parry broke many of the Iran-Contra stories for The Associated Press and Newsweek in the 1980s. You can buy his latest book, America’s Stolen Narrative, either in print here or as an e-book (from Amazon and barnesandnoble.com). You also can order Robert Parry’s trilogy on the Bush Family and its connections to various right-wing operatives for only $34. The trilogy includes America’s Stolen Narrative. For details on this offer, click here.

Title: Smuggling refugees into Europe is a new growth industry
Post by: RE on September 09, 2015, 04:31:57 AM
Not cheap to make the trip these days.

RE

Smuggling refugees into Europe is a new growth industry (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/smuggling-refugees-into-europe-is-a-new-growth-industry/2015/09/03/398c72c4-517f-11e5-b225-90edbd49f362_story.html)

Suspects arrested in deaths of migrants
View Photos
A Hungarian court placed four men under preliminary arrest for being involved in the deaths of 71 migrants found in a truck in Austria.
By Michael Birnbaum September 3

BRUSSELS — Amid the biggest wave of migration to Europe in decades, fast-growing smuggling networks are spiriting Syrians and others to the continent, law enforcement officials say — and there are few limits to the sophistication of their efforts.

The 71 corpses discovered in a truck on an Austrian roadside last week are only a grim glimpse of a fast-expanding wave of human smuggling seizing Europe, said officials who are charged with hunting the smugglers. Vans that once may have been used to smuggle cigarettes are being used for the much more fragile cargo of humans. On social networks and in person, migrants can pick from a menu of services, ranging from a slippery seat on a rubber dinghy to Greece all the way to a chartered business jet straight to the refugee haven of Sweden.

[As tragedies shock Europe, a bigger refugee crisis looms in Middle East]

The long trek across the Western Balkans has taken fresh prominence in recent months after years in which Syrians and Iraqis fleeing war favored a perilous sea route from Libya. Now thousands of migrants set out every day to make the long journey from refugee camps neighboring Syria to the Western European nations that have offered them safe harbor. They do so hand-in-hand with smugglers, who often advertise their services openly on Facebook and other social media sites.

“There is a growing number of networks that we saw in the past were dealing in the trafficking of illegal drugs and are now shifting to people smuggling,” said Robert Črepinko, the head of the organized crime unit at Europol, the European Union’s policing arm. “The number of criminal activities is growing with the same speed as the number of illegal migrants.”

(https://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_1484w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2015/09/03/Foreign/Graphics/2300-SMUGGLERS.jpg?uuid=J4tb1lKREeWyJZDtvUnzYg)

The criminal boom has been so rapid that Europol’s new online monitoring unit, which on July 1 began monitoring terrorist-related social media activity, has recently expanded to monitor smuggling, Črepinko said.

National law enforcement authorities have struggled to keep up with the influx of migrants, as old criminal rings move into new areas of business.

“As a global criminal enterprise, it is very lucrative,” said Patrik Engström, the head of the Swedish police’s national border policing section, who has monitored human smuggling and trafficking for years, and watched as it has taken new life in Europe since the beginning of 2014.

Sweden, along with Germany, has become Europe’s top destination for asylum-seekers after the government announced that Syrian refugees would be granted permanent residency and the right to resettle their entire families within the country’s peaceful borders.
A trip at all costs

Engström said his agency has uncovered schemes to get to Sweden that are as basic as an RV over a bridge and as complicated as a chartered plane that lifted off from Turkey, charging the Syrian passengers about $10,000 each for the privilege. When they landed, they claimed asylum, he said.

The wide range of methods reflects the diverse circumstances from which the asylum-seekers are coming. Syria’s conflict, well into its fifth year, has upended the lives of many middle-class families with deep wells of savings. Many of them might have stayed close to Syria for years in the hopes of returning home before giving up and turning toward Europe.

Asylum-seekers have powerful motivations to make it to wealthy nations such as Germany and Sweden without being detected along the way. If authorities in other E.U. countries detain them, they can be forced to apply for asylum under far less-welcoming circumstances. Hungary has strung up a razor-wire fence along its frontier with Serbia, and Hungarian leaders this week barred their onward journey to Austria. Germany, meanwhile, expects to take up to 800,000 asylum-seekers this year. Critics say that type of patchwork enforcement only fuels the demand for smugglers.
Tensions high at Hungarian train station
Play Video0:41
Migrants being held at a train station in Bicske, Hungary, have begun to protest the conditions of their detention, including refusing water. Journalists have also been removed from the platform when attempting to speak with the migrants. (Storyful)

[Hungary halts rail traffic in bid to stop migrants]

“As it becomes more difficult to move in Europe, the cost for the migrants and the need for smugglers will go up,” said Tuesday Reitano, the head of the Global Initiative against Transnational Organized Crime.

There is a service for every price point, ranging in the hundreds of dollars for a choppy below-deck voyage across the Mediterranean to thousands of dollars for longer, more complex journeys, law enforcement officials said. In a smartphone era, many of the smuggling services are available on Arabic-language Facebook and other social media sites. Migrants also communicate with one another along the journey using messaging tools such as WhatsApp to warn about where police coverage is heaviest.

“The Syrians are managing their trips in a much more savvy way than any other group that we’ve seen in the history of migration, that I’m aware of,” Reitano said.

The trip is made by boat, foot, rail and bus — and over the more than 1,000 miles between jumping off points in Turkey and the safety of Germany, smugglers are almost always involved in at least part of the journey, law enforcement officials say. Swedish authorities think that 90 percent of refugees reaching their territory used smugglers to ease at least a part of their trip. European officials estimate that the business runs in the billions of dollars.

“In Turkey, the smugglers are much more media-savvy and they cater to a specific audience,” said Izabella Cooper, a spokeswoman for Frontex, the E.U. border policing agency. “On social media, you can simply look up what’s available, there’s a specific date, and a specific type of transportation being offered.”

Until earlier this year, the bulk of crossings came by sea, over the Mediterranean from northern Africa. Now the flow has shifted to the western Balkans, along routes that have long been used by human traffickers, but never at current volumes.

The sea journeys have drawn headlines with all-too-frequent capsized boats. But the Balkan routes also can carry great danger. There may be far more victims than the 71 suspected migrants who perished in the truck in Austria, authorities say. Most of the asylum-seekers making their way to Europe through the western Balkans pay smugglers for each leg of their journey ahead of time, giving their escorts little motivation to make sure they reach their destination safely.

“The Austrian case, and this may sound chilling, is just one case that we’ve uncovered,” said Engström, of the Swedish police. “Now this happens every day, probably every hour, not only that people are transported every day under really hard conditions, but also that they suffocate, but we don’t find them.”

In the few days since Austrian authorities began screening most truck traffic coming from Hungary, they have found several instances in which migrants were packed into vehicles in unsafe circumstances, Austrian Interior Minister Johanna Mikl-Leitner said this week.

And one man suspected of involvement in the 71 deaths in Austria had been sought by German authorities in connection with a human-smuggling incident a month earlier, said Peter Wiesenberger, a state prosecutor in the southern German district of Deggendorf. He said that German police had stopped a Citroen van on July 25 and found 38 Afghan migrants inside. The driver and a passenger escaped. The car’s temporary license plate was registered under the name of Metodi Georgiev, a 29-year-old Bulgarian national, according to local news reports.

Read more:

Inside the remote city of smugglers where Africans are funneled to Europe

Black route: One family’s journey from Aleppo to Austria

The saga of the Syrian family whose 3-year-old turned up dead on a Turkish beach

Read more stories on the global migrant crisis
Michael Birnbaum is The Post’s Moscow bureau chief. He previously served as the Berlin correspondent and an education reporter.
Title: WALLS
Post by: RE on September 09, 2015, 06:56:31 PM
WALLS (http://www.greanvillepost.com/2015/09/08/walls-2/)

WALLS by Gaither Stewart
The Great Chinese Wall: still standing after 24 centuries, its original purpose now obsolete.

The Great Chinese Wall: still standing after 24 centuries, its original purpose now obsolete. (Click on image!)

The international media reported recently that the conservative government of Hungary has projected a wall along the country’s southern border with Serbia to keep out clandestine Serbs who cross into Hungary in search of work. Some readers will recall that in 1999 the U.S. used Hungary as a base for the Serbian opposition organization, OTPOR (resistance), hailed in the West as the representative of democratic Serbia against the evil Communist dictatorship of Slobodan Milosevic, which however was financed and to some extent run by the West in an early color revolution, similar to the support for the Nazi anti-Russian group on the Maidan in Ukraine this year.
 …
 
Roger Cohen of the NY TIMES revealed that between 1998 and 2000 OTPOR received funds from three U.S. organizations including the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) which met with OTPOR  leaders also in Budapest, Hungary. The planned Hungarian wall today prompted me to revive and refresh my previous article and a translation of a story by Jorge Borges, both about walls.
 …
 Afew years ago an amusing satirical article in the Buenos Aires leftwing daily, Pagina 12,made me want to cry. In some five thousand words the Argentinean journalist José Pablo Feinmann ridiculed, among other things, the whole concept of the great wall the U.S. Bush government projected along the border with Mexico.

“What? Raise a wall. The gringos must be very afraid,” the journalist writes. “Just suppose the Wall then becomes a Goal, a Goal that attracts people from all parts, just to see if they can reach the Goal. What would be the Goal? The Goal would be to jump over the wall. Let’s just suppose that a crazy German comes with an enormous hook and says, ‘I can jump over the Wall of the Gringos.’ And suppose the Wall then retains this name: The Wall of the Gringos.”

(The journalist goes on to recall that the word Gringo calls to mind the rancor of Latin Americans, things like the Cuban Revolution and Fidel Castro and “Gringos de mierda, imperialist pigs go home,” and the Wall then becomes the symbol of burgeoning North American Fascism. There are many legends about the origin of the word Gringo—perhaps from the Green Coats of American soldiers in the Mexican-American War of 1846-48, “green coats go home” becomes “greens-go.” Argentineans called all immigrants, especially Italians, gringos. But as a rule today Gringo means Yankee, and is generally pejorative, even if North Americans in Mexico and southwards call themselves Gringos … but maybe that’s like whistling in the dark graveyard.)

   

MEN AND WALLS
 israel-the-wall-palestine
 Israel’s “Apartheid Wall”. segregating Palestinians. 


Walls usually express fear and have never enjoyed much success. Like the walled cities of Jericho or of Old Europe, walls have usually been defensive. They aim at keeping out the enemy. But many centuries ago barbarians easily overran the 19-kilometer Aurelian walls around Rome, today crumbling, and that I once walked in one day. These however were small walls, insignificant walls, and even though the walls of Troy resisted for ten years, most walls fell quite easily to hooks and rams and ladders. Instead the 155-kilometer Berlin Wall was intended to keep people in (or was it only that?)—and who can say what could happen in Bush’s Republic?—but anyway the Berlin Wall fell too. Even the 6,700 mile Wall of China has gradually crumbled and become a tourist attraction. And what about the Israeli Wall? For the whole Arab world, for Berliners, for many Europeans, it is forty kilometers of evil. The reality is, walls just don’t work. 

The mere idea of a 700-mile wall between the USA and its neighbor Mexico is mind-boggling. The image of a globalized world in which contradictorily walls are built and bridges crumble recalls the feudal system when the lords only left their walled castles escorted by armed guards. The drama of illegal immigration was predicted to become the major issue of the XXI century. Now it is here. And political leaders have decided to look to the distant past for solutions: the Israeli wall and now the Wall of the Gringos are what they come up with.

A declaration of several years ago signed by 28 of 34 nations of the Organization of American States—of course NOT by the United States—expressed “deep concern” for such a “unilateral measure” contrary to the spirit of international understanding. Walls, it said, do not solve the problem of illegal immigration, and it urged the United States to recognize this position. Latin American leaders gathered in a summit in Uruguay condemned the idea of the Wall. Former Mexican President, Vicente Fox, a conservative, defined the idea of a wall on the Mexican border “stupid.” For Chilean President Michelle Bachelet a wall facing Mexico “damages the links of friendship in the hemisphere.”

The Berlin Wall was a godsend for the battalions of self-righteous Western propagandists. No one cared to mention that the GDR probably had good reasons for it, including sabotage.

At this point, as a change of pace: I am adding an exercise I have permitted myself, the translation of a story about walls by Jorge Luis Borges, which however had absolutely nothing to do with the Wall of the Gringos, to whose story I have added a few of my own comments.

The Wall and the Books (La Muralla y los Libros)


By Jorge Luis Borges (translation from Spanish and comments by Gaither Stewart)


He, whose long wall the wand’ring Tartar bounds … Dunciad, II, 76. (1)


I read, in past days, that the man who ordered the construction of the nearly infinite Wall of China was that First Emperor, Shih Huang Ti, who likewise ordered the burning of all the books before him. That the two gigantic operations—the five or six hundred leagues of stone to oppose the barbarians, the rigorous abolition of history, that is of the past—issued from one person and were in a certain sense his attributes, inexplicably satisfied me and, at the same time, disturbed me. The object of this note is to investigate the reasons for that emotion.

borges-Jorge-Luis-Borges-07

Historically there is no mystery in the two measures. A contemporary of the wars of Hannibal, Shih Huang Ti, King of Ch’in, conquered the Six Kingdoms and eliminated the feudal system; he built the wall because walls were defenses; he burned the books because the opposition invoked them in order to extol former emperors. Burning books and building fortifications is common task to emperors; the only thing singular about Shih Huang Ti was the scale on which he operated. So some Sinologists would have us understand, but I feel that the facts to which I referred are something more than an exaggeration or a hyperbole of trivial inclinations. To enclose an orchard or a garden is common; not to enclose an empire. That the most traditional of races renounced the memory of its past, mythical or true, is no small matter. The Chinese had three thousand years of chronology (in those years, the Yellow Emperor and Chuang Tzu and Confucius and Lao Tzu) when Shih Huang Ti ordered that history began with him. … Shih Huang Ti had banished his mother as a libertine; the orthodox saw only impiety in his severe justice; Shih Huang Ti, perhaps, wanted to erase canonic books because they accused him; Shih Huang Ti, perhaps, wanted to abolish the entire past in order to abolish one memory: the infamy of his mother. (Not unlike another king, in Judea, had all the children killed in order to kill one.) This conjecture is worth considering, but it tells us nothing about the wall, about the second facet of the myth. Shih Huang Ti, according to historians, forbade all mention of the word death and searched for the elixir of immortality and secluded himself in a figurative palace, which had as many rooms as the year has days; the data suggest that the wall in space and the fire in time were magic barriers intended to halt the advance of death.

borges-Jorge_Luis_Borges_1963-myopicEverything persists in his being, wrote Baruch Spinoza; perhaps the Emperor and his sages believed that immortality was intrinsic and that corruption could not penetrate a closed sphere. Perhaps the Emperor hoped to recreate the beginning of time and called himself The First, in order to be truly the first, and he named himself Huang Ti in order to be in some way Huang Ti, the legendary emperor who invented writing and the compass. The latter, according to the Book of Rites, gave things their true names; equally Shih Huang Ti boasted, in enduring inscriptions, that all things in his empire had the name they merited. He dreamed of founding an immortal dynasty; he ordered that his heirs should be named Second Emperor, Third Emperor, Fourth Emperor, and so on to infinity … I spoke of a magic design; it would also be possible to suppose that constructing a wall and burning the books were not simultaneous acts. This (according to the order we choose) would give us the image of a king who began by destroying and afterwards resigned himself to conserving, or that of a disabused king who destroyed what he defended earlier. Both conjectures are dramatic but lack, as far as I know, in historical basis. Herbert Allen Giles (2) relates that those who concealed books were branded by a red-hot iron and condemned to build the outrageous wall until the day of their death. This information favors or tolerates another interpretation. Perhaps the wall was a metaphor, maybe Shih Huang Ti condemned those who worshipped the past to a work just as vast as the past, as stupid and useless. Perhaps the wall was a challenge and Shih Huang Ti thought: “Men love the past and I can do nothing against this love, nor can my executioners, but sometime there will be a man who feels as I do, and he will destroy my wall, as I destroyed the books, and will erase my memory and will be my shadow and my mirror and will not be aware of it. Perhaps Shih Huang Ti walled in the empire because he knew it was fragile and he destroyed the books because he understood they were sacred books, or rather books that taught that which the entire universe teaches or the consciousness of every man. Maybe the burning of the libraries and the construction of the wall are operations that in a secret way cancel each other. 

The tenacious wall that in this moment, and in all moments, projects its system of shadows across lands I will not see, is the shadow of a Caesar who ordered that the most reverent of nations burn its past; it is likely that the idea itself touches us by, over and above, the conjectures it allows. (Its virtue can be in the opposition to building and destroying, on an enormous scale.) Generalizing the earlier matter, we could infer that all practices have their virtue in themselves and not in some conjectural “content.” This would be in agreement with the thesis of Benedetto Croce (3); as already Pater (4), in 1877, contended that all the arts aspire to the condition of music, which is nothing but form. Music, state of happiness, mythology, faces shaped by time, certain twilights and certain places, try to tell us something, or they told us something that we should not have lost, or want to tell us something; this imminence of a revelation, which does not happen, is, perhaps, the esthetic act.

• Dunciad by Alexander Pope in which the poet referred to his many enemies as dunces. This satirical poem of 920 lines, in three books, describes the king of dunces and a nightmare world of universal darkness in Pope’s gigantic lampoon of writers, books and booksellers, attacking those who write for pay. At one point there is a sacrifice bonfire of the books. This sort of literary reference and source is used by Anglophile Borges throughout his work.

• Herbert Allen Giles (1845-1935), renowned British diplomat and Sinologist.

• Benedetto Croce (1866-1952), Italian literary historian, critic, philosopher, wrote: “Art is not the addition of form to content, but expression, which does not mean communication but is a spiritual fact, and ethics is conceived as the expression of the universal will, of the spirit.”

• Walter Pater (1839-94), English writer, essayist, aesthete and art historian, famous precisely because his life is so shrouded in mystery, whom Henry James called “the mask without the face” and the kind of literary source Borges plants in his strange tales. Here Borges quotes Pater that “all art constantly aspires toward the condition of music.” I found on line this anecdote which is revealing of the nature of Pater, and thus of one side of Borges:  In 1894, the last year of his life, Pater was invited to meet Mallarmé, who was then lecturing at Oxford. Mallarmé taught English in a lycée; Pater’s French was excellent; but the two connoisseurs of intimation apparently thought it too vulgar actually to speak. According to one account, they “regarded each other in silence, and were satisfied.”


 Translator’s note: This typical Borges interpretative chronicle/ historical reflection (neither short story nor essay!) is included in Antología Personal (Personal Anthology), the version I have translated here, the first edition of which was published by Editorial Sur in 1961 and for which Borges wrote in the Prologue that his “preferences dictated this book.” It appeared again in English in Everything and Nothing, New Directions, 1999. I chose to translate this tale/account because it is shorter and, perhaps, less well-known than others; secondly because it is typical of Borges’ works in which he playfully drops unfamiliar names and references in his veiled recounting of people and place and times, which only at first appear obscure or meaningless; and thirdly because of the writer’s prologue to the volume.
 …
 
As fate would have it and in Borges style, I saw in a May issue of the best of the “NY Times in Italian,” the article “Walls Raised Against the Enemy, A Long History,” which cites the first such wall as Shih Huang Ti’s Wall of China, an article intended to demonstrate that they never work, not in Berlin nor in Israel nor in Baghdad. Nor will it work on the US-Mexican border, I would add.
 …
 Tracing the references and my close reading of the Prologue is to elucidate to a limited degree the Borgesian world. If you try to pursue diligently all Borges’ literary pointers you have to be prepared to enter an infinite labyrinth in which one thing leads to another and then another, inexorably and without end, so that you do need the proverbial ball of string to find your way out. Though with contemporary web search engines this labyrinth is only a few clicks away, while I was clicking and longing to exit I imagined Borges instead in one of his libraries, finding, tracing and investigating such sources of inspiration by following his own instincts, pulling down tome after tome from the labyrinthine spaces filled with semi-illuminated shelves that he must have loved and hated.
 …
 
Toward the end of this exercise, once the translation was finished and the names pinpointed, I returned to his Prologue to the book in which he refers to Benedetto Croce as he does in “The Wall and the Books.” Borges: “Croce opined that art is expression; from this exigency, or from the deformation of this exigency, derives the worst literature of our times…. I at times have also searched for expression; now I know that my gods no longer concede me anything but allusion or account.”

Creative writers can well understand him. On a similar tack Umberto Eco (The Name of the Rose) says that, “every work of art is a game played out at the worktable. Nothing is more harmful to creativity than the passion of inspiration. It’s the fable of bad romantics that fascinates bad poets and bad narrators. Art is a serious matter. Manzoni and Flaubert, Balzac and Stendhal wrote at the worktable. That means to construct, like an architect plans a building. Yet we prefer to believe that a novelist invents because he has a genius whispering into his ear.”

(Well, so much for walls, even if I have digressed from the subject, I think it is clear that to me walls do not sound like a good idea at all).


Screen Shot 2015-08-22 at 7.41.15 PMgaitherStewSenior Editor Gaither Stewart serves as European correspondent, based in Rome. His latest novel is Time of Exile (Trepper & Katz/Punto Press), last volume of his celebrated Europe Trilogy.

Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on September 09, 2015, 07:46:54 PM
There is much better tech available than physical wall.

Satellite and thermal  imaging can locate  people along the border and choppers every couple hundred miles to respond to incursions would work better and be much much cheaper (not that im advocating it.) Walls dont stop deep tunnels,   as one shown above has proved.
Title: Hitler Reincarnated in Czech Republic
Post by: RE on September 09, 2015, 08:12:30 PM
This is escalating quickly.

Remember, Hitler didn't get many votes right out of the box either.

RE

Czech Politician Has "Solution" For Refugee Crisis - Concentration Camps (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-09/czech-politician-has-solution-refugee-crisis-concentration-camps)

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 09/09/2015 18:10 -0400

    Czech Greece Hungary Poland Slovakia

Following Hungarian cameramen kicking 10-year-old girl refugees, and Czech police hauling immigrants of trains and writing numbers on their arms, it appears the horrors of the past are quickly forgotten when it comes to 'solutions' for the present. As The Jerusalem Post reports, the leader of the Czech 'nationalist' National Democracy Party, has called for refugees to be placed in Terezin - a former Nazi concentration camp - "Why build tent camps for the aliens? We have the beautiful fortress town of Terezin where the aliens could concentrate before they are taken home by trains." Police are investigating whether his comments constitute a criminal act and Czech Jewish leaders have refused to comment on the incident.

As The Jerusalem Post reports, police in the Czech Republic are investigating comments made on Facebook by an extremist politician calling for refugees to be placed in Terezin, the former Nazi concentration camp.

   
(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2015/09/20150909_bartos.jpg)
Adam Bartos, the leader of the fringe yet vocal far-right nationalist National Democracy Party, published the comments about the site, located in the central European country, on Monday.   
 

    Reacting to the establishment of a refugee camp near the country’s border with Slovakia, Bartos wrote, “Why build tent camps for the aliens? We have the beautiful fortress town of Terezin where the aliens could concentrate before they are taken home by trains.”

 
    A police spokeswoman told the Czech News Agency on Monday that the police will probe whether or not the comments constitute a criminal act. According to Czech law, hate speech and comments inciting national, racial or religious hatred can carry penalties of up to three years in prison.

     

    Bartos is under investigation for four incidents involving allegedly racist, anti-Semitic and violence-inciting remarks. He also keeps a blog titled Hall of Jewish Fame that critics say lists politicians, journalists and other public figures of supposedly Jewish origin.

     

    Bartos’ party failed to gain seats in the European elections last year, the only campaign it has run in under his leadership.

Terezin, also known as Theresienstadt in German, is located some 40 miles northwest of Prague.

The town was turned into a concentration and transit camp by the Nazis in 1941. Roughly 144,000 Jewish people were sent there during the Holocaust, most of whom were later transported to extermination camps in occupied Poland. Some 33,000 died in the Terezin camp.

(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2015/09/20150909_bartos1_0.jpg)

Publicizing the camp for its rich cultural life, the Nazis used the camp as a propaganda tool to fool the Western allies.

Czech Jewish leaders have refused to comment on the incident.

*  *  *

The situation appears dreadful everywhere...

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COdurV6WIAAbTgi.jpg)
Absolutely appalling conditions in Hungary detention camps 4 asylum seekers, kept in crowded pens like cattle.

Having unveiled its €780 Million "Compulsory" Refugee Quota Plan, we suspect the union of European nations will be torn asunder as these unfortunate "collateral damage" from American empire-building are tossed around like hot unwanted potatoes... (as we noted before)

    The refugee issue can and will not be solved by the EU, or inside the EU apparatus, at least not in the way it should. Nor will the debt issue for which Greece was merely an ‘early contestant’. The EU structure does not allow for it. Nor does it allow for meaningful change to that structure. It would be good if people start to realize that, before the unholy Union brings more disgrace and misery and death upon its own citizens and on others.

However this is resolved and wherever the refugees end up living, we, all of us, have the obligation to treat them with decency and human kindness in the meantime. We are not.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on September 09, 2015, 08:23:51 PM
I was looking at GoogleEarth for what would be the eastern end of the US-Mexican wall, down the south-east corner of Texas.  The sandbars around the mouth of the river there obviously shift around quite a bit, but it only looks like a 20-metre swim, with the occasional fisherman and beach swales criss-crossed with 4WD tracks.  If you had someone there waiting, it seems like it would be pretty easy to get across and away.  In fact if you look closely, there are 2 vehicles and some people who look like they are doing exactly that.

(http://palloy.net/images/US-Mexican.border.jpg)
Title: Turning Back the Boats
Post by: RE on September 09, 2015, 10:00:25 PM
At least TA didn't come out for SINKING the boats.

RE

Australia’s Syrian Refugee Solution: “Turning Back the Boats” (http://www.globalresearch.ca/australias-syrian-refugee-solution-turning-back-the-boats/5474692)

By Binoy Kampmark
Global Research, September 09, 2015
Region: Oceania

Distant Australia has done its level best to influence the refugee debate in the most negative of ways this century. Its reactionary response has deployed a range of established stereotypes that have targeted the right to asylum. Safety has been sacrificed in favour of deterrence.

(http://www.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/tony-abbott-400x224.jpg)
While Prime Minister Tony Abbott continues to bask the ill-gained glory of “turning back the boats”, the European refugee crisis has exploded. This has produced a range of sentiments in Parliament, some verging on the overtly discriminatory. While the refugee category should be inclusive and absolute (such suffering, by its nature, should know no religion or race), the debate suggests quite the opposite: We only want appropriate refugees.

True to form, various Coalition members have expressed interest in select minorities, preferably of the non-Muslim sort. Some backbenchers have been rather open in the party room. “No more Muslim men” is a message doing the rounds.

Front benchers such as Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull see stars of hope in saving Syria’s Christian communities. “They are a minority, they survived in Syria, they’ve been there for thousands of years, literally since the time of Christ.”Senate Leader Eric Abetz has similarly pushed the line on Christian salvation. “It should be on the basis of need and given the Christians are the most persecuted group in the world, and especially in the Middle East, I think it stands to reason that they would be pretty high up on the priority list for resettlement.”

Foreign Minister Julie Bishop has also had her pick of preferred exceptionally persecuted minority groups. She favours supporting Maronites and various groups within, including the Yazidis and Druze.

The result is an inbuilt method of discrimination that assumes a self-justified, circular logic: if you are a Christian in Syria, then you will be persecuted; if you are persecuted in Syria, then obviously, you must be a Christian. This logic is shoddy on various levels, not least because it ignores numerous other communities, notably Islamic ones, that are equally the targets of terror.While he can’t generally be guaranteed to make sensible remarks on refugees, Opposition Leader Bill Shorten made the obvious point that, “Being a victim of war doesn’t know a particular religion.” He was careful, however, to only propose an increased intake after getting word back from his focus groups.Refugee Council chief executive Paul Power sees such a prioritisation as counter productive. By granting specific refugee groups a talismanic worth – the worthier sufferers, if you will – they will become even more exceptional targets. “I’m sure one of the consequences is that extremists within Syria and other parts of the Middle East will use this as a weapon against Syrian Christians.”[1]

The latest Australian position on refugees is fundamentally consistent with its broader discriminatory practices. It supposedly detests people smuggling, yet consents to paying boat captains to take back refugees when needed. (One claims he was recently paid as much as $30,000 to turn his boat load of human cargo back.)

The Abbott government feels it needs to act, but it is only doing so with reluctance. There are calls from across the political aisle for larger intakes of refugees – Labor has pressed for 10,000, while the Greens have asked for double that number. Liberal backbenchers spoke over the weekend about the death of three-year old Aylan Kurdi. More, it was suggested, needed to be done.

In the main, the government is far busier bungling with such visa-checking missions such as the failed Operation Fortitude, and running detention camps on Manus Island and Nauru that give purgatory a bad name. Detainees face sexual abuse, psychological trauma and an appalling safety record.

The concern here is whether the Australian recipe for dealing with refugees may prove palatable for European policy makers. Abbott has himself suggested on a few occasions that “countries facing a crisis on their doorsteps are looking at his success at stopping the boats and thinking they can learn from Australia’s experience.”[2]

The New York Times, in a scathing survey of Australia’s refugee policies, was worried by exactly that point. “Some European officials,” claimed the editorial board, “may be tempted to adopt the hard-approach Australia has used to stem a similar tide of migrants. That would be unconscionable.”[3]

It would be, but the issue of dealing with refugees ceased being a matter of conscience in Australian politics years ago. More typical are the views of the current immigration minister, Peter Dutton, who parrots the line that such a ruthless stance is actually humane. “Our policies are lawful. They are safe. And they work.”

The grief for the drowned provides the perfect alibi to repress and deter refugees – they are being treated that way for their own good. “What Australians and the world did not see were the hundreds of others who were dying while trying to reach Australia in unseaworthy boats.”[4]

Various European governments have certainly shown Abbott-like tendencies in embracing domestic unilateralism, be it Hungary’s wall solution or the Slovak response of only wanting Christian refugees. That way lies, not merely a good deal of madness, but a good deal of deflection.

Dr. Binoy Kampmark was a Commonwealth Scholar at Selwyn College, Cambridge. He lectures at RMIT University, Melbourne. Email: bkampmark@gmail.com

Notes

[1] http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-08/christians-to-get-priority-in-syrian-refugee-intake/6757110 (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-08/christians-to-get-priority-in-syrian-refugee-intake/6757110)

[2] http://www.canberratimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/no-tony-abbott-we-dont-have-the-answer-on-refugees-20150904-gjfjqc.html (http://www.canberratimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/no-tony-abbott-we-dont-have-the-answer-on-refugees-20150904-gjfjqc.html)

[3] http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/03/opinion/australias-brutal-treatment-of-migrants.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/03/opinion/australias-brutal-treatment-of-migrants.html?_r=0)

[4] http://www.canberratimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/immigration-minister-peter-dutton-hits-back-at-new-york-times-over-asylum-seeker-editorial-20150904-gjflgk (http://www.canberratimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/immigration-minister-peter-dutton-hits-back-at-new-york-times-over-asylum-seeker-editorial-20150904-gjflgk)

 
Copyright © Binoy Kampmark, Global Research, 2015
Title: 'Flood gates are open': second wave of migrants eye Europe
Post by: RE on September 09, 2015, 10:45:32 PM
THEY'RE LEAVIN' FROM AFGHANISTAN

THEY'RE LEAVIN' FROM AFGHANISTAN


TODAY!

RE

'Flood gates are open': second wave of migrants eye Europe

AFP
A refugee points at his home country, Afghanistan, as he rests at the Hungarian-Austrian border near the Austrian village of Nickelsdorf on September 5, 2015
.

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Clutching prayer beads and a documented death threat from the Taliban, Mirwais joins a queue outside Kabul's passport office, potentially among a second wave of migrants attempting perilous journeys to Europe, inspired by images of refugees being welcomed.

 

Afghans are the second largest migrant group -- behind Syrians -– arriving in Europe, where authorities from the Mediterranean to the Baltic Sea are struggling to cope with the continent’s worst refugee crisis since World War II.

The prospect of a new tide of war refugees -- from Afghanistan to Iraq and North Africa -- poses a daunting challenge for EU policymakers already scrambling for a unified response to the overwhelming influx of people.

"The flood gates are open -– and this is our best chance to reach Europe," said 28-year-old Mirwais, a former translator at an American base in the volatile eastern province of Kunar.

Mirwais, who has been waiting for a US Special Immigrant Visa (SIV)since he complained of Taliban threats in 2012, has been captivated by television footage of refugees pouring into Europe.

In particular, it was the image of dozens of Germans holding up "Welcome Refugee" signs that prompted Mirwais, who goes by one name, to travel to Kabul to renew his passport.

His plan: if the SIV doesn't imminently materialise, he will pay one of the ubiquitous human smuggler networks flourishing in Afghanistan to undertake a dangerous voyage -- through Iran and onwards to Turkey and finally, Germany.

"I hear Syrian refugees are being given a priority in Germany," said Mirwais, the amber coloured tasbih -- prayer beads -- wrapped around his wrist, as he joined a queue snaking outside Kabul’s passport office.

"But I think Afghans have a good chance."

Mirwais is one of thousands of jobless Afghan civilians eager to find refuge in Western nations, fleeing decades of turmoil and war tearing their country apart.

The number of his countrymen seeking asylum in industrialised nations has now surpassed all previous years since 2001, with the UN refugee agency reporting a 65 percent surge in applications in 2014 over the previous year.

New figures from the agency show Afghans constitute 14 percent of the 381,412 people recorded as having arrived in Europe by sea so far this year, making them the second largest migrant group after Syrians.

- 'Inspired by images' -

"We can be sure that these same Afghans inspired by the TV images of those who have reached Europe have also seen photos or images of those who have died on their way there," said Richard Danziger, the country head of the International Organization for Migration (IOM).

"But the images and stories of successful migration projects always make more of a mark than those of failure," Danziger told AFP.

The serpentine lines outside Kabul's passport office are a sign of the gathering pace of the exodus from Afghanistan, where pessimism abounds about a deteriorating war and a slumping economy.

Former President Hamid Karzai on Wednesday joined a growing chorus of officials imploring Afghans to halt the flight.

"Dear young Afghans, stay in your country, build your homeland," he said. "The country is facing a hard time and it needs you to stay."

But such pleas fall on deaf ears.

"Telling people not to migrate doesn't work," said Danziger.

"The best the (Afghan government) can do is to reach out to those most likely to go and engage them in dialogue. In the longer term, of course, the answer is economic opportunities and security."

- 'Chop off your head' -

Four decades of war have brought endurance among Afghans, but the expanding conflict, the spectre of the spread of Islamic State, and growing economic distress have whipped up an undercurrent of hopelessness.

Many migrants are desperate to get into northern EU countries that have thrown open their doors, but between them lie several transit countries, some of which -- like Hungary -- are intent on keeping them out.

"Whether Germany or Austria welcome us or not, we have to go," said Haji Popal, a 65-year-old Afghan father of nine, planning a similar voyage to Europe.

"We'll go wherever we are welcome."

Meanwhile, Mirwais, heaving and sweating, waited patiently in the queue outside the passport office, where potential migrants start massing as early as 4.00 am.

Once a translator with the US army's Road Clearance Patrol unit, tasked with clearing improvised explosive devices, he said his life has been stuck in limbo since militant threats forced him to flee his home.

"The Americans shut down their base and left. We stayed behind to face death threats," he said.

Mirwais pulled out a chilling letter, purportedly from the Taliban, left on his front door one morning in 2012.

"We will chop off your head for working with foreign infidels," the letter said.

Title: America's Refugee Crisis: On Its Way
Post by: Thomas Lewis on September 10, 2015, 02:33:14 AM

gc2smOff the keyboard of Tom Lewis

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Published on The Daily Impact on September 9, 2015

Palestinian_refugees

Discuss this article at the Geopolitics Table inside the Diner

Syrian refugees in a camp in Turkey proclaim their reverence for the Koran being held aloft, and their hatred for Syrian dictator Hafez Assad. (Photo by Freedom House/Flickr)

Syrian refugees in a camp in Turkey proclaim their reverence for the Koran being held aloft, and their hatred for Syrian dictator Hafez Assad. (Photo by Freedom House/Flickr)

Hideous choices now urgently confront the countries of Europe as they flounder in deep waters, borne down toward drowning by the inexorably growing weight of human misery cascading into and over them from Africa and Asia. Solutions are not even imaginable, especially when so few recognize the root causes. [See “The Choice Worse than Sophie’s,” “A Tsunami of Climate Refugees is Drowning Europe.”] What even fewer will admit is that a refugee crisis of similar intensity is coming to America. In a sense, it is already here.

The refugee crisis now gestating in the United States is not one of desperate brown people pouring over our southern border,

nor even of desperate snow bunnies crashing our northern boundary, although one of the candidates for Captain of the Titanic thinks we should consider a wall on the Canadian border. The people who will constitute our next tsunami of misery, its like not seen since the days of the Dust Bowl, are citizens, already here, their misery steadily approaching the intolerable. Soon, because they have to, they will start to move.

If you want to count them, get to know them, begin with the 94 million people who have vanished from the American work force. Each month, the don’t-worry-be-happy bean counters of our government report, as they just did for August, the “creation” of a robust 173,000 jobs, resulting in a healthy contraction of the unemployment rate — the proportion of those who do not have jobs compared with those who are available for work — of 5.1%. The economy is coming back! It’s morning in America!

Except that while 173,000 jobs became available, 251,000 adults left the labor force. A minority of them retired, or went to school, but for most of them the move was not voluntary. Their unemployment benefits ran out, they are too discouraged and broke to continue the fruitless duplication of resumes, and so, by government definition, they have vanished from the pool of potentially available workers. They are un-people now.

There are 94 million of them. Their number has increased by nearly two million in one year; by almost 15 million since the last good year, 2007.

I met one of the non-people a while ago, gave him a ride to town, seven miles from his trailer home. For months he had been walking there — he could not afford to license his ancient pickup truck — every single weekday, looking for work. He had been a heavy equipment operator in construction, but has not had a regular job in seven years. He has no front teeth because he could not afford the root canals that would have saved them. His wife is ill, and while that does bring them a disability pittance once a month, they experience hunger every month. One of their close friends and neighbors takes her to medical appointments, and grocery shopping, when necessary — and charges her $30 for the favor. I came to know him as a good, reliable and knowledgeable worker. His desperation has not yet turned to anger. Not yet.

Did I mention there are at least 94 million of him?

People who “vanish” from the labor pool, and/or become homeless, mail-deprived and often phoneless, often become invisible as well to the agencies and institutions that are designed to help them. A recent book documenting the lack of a safety net for such people identified 1.5 million households, inhabited by 3 million children, whose total cash income per person per day during 2011, including public assistance, was no more than $2. For those disconnected from the job market, the authors say, there is virtually no help.

Then there is the thing we in America share with all the countries of North Africa, the Middle East and Asia whose people are now crashing into Europe: growing, spreading, intensifying drought. The western third of the United States is experiencing the worst drought in a millennium, and a consequent water crisis worse than anything in our history. Large agricultural areas (California’s Central Valley, to name just one) and some major cities (Las Vegas and Phoenix, to start) are seeing the water supplies that make them habitable vanish. When the water is gone, like the farmers of Syria after 85% of their animals dies of thirst, the population of these places will start to move.

Where are you going to build that fence, Donald?

Title: Rant Regarding Refugee Relief
Post by: RE on September 10, 2015, 02:44:51 AM


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Published on the Doomstead Diner on September 10, 2015






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TAKE THE REFUGEE SURVEY HERE



gc2The Refugee Crisis has been "Topic of the Week" in the Collapse Doom-o-sphere.  Everybody's Talkin' about what to DO about this growing problem, with few plausible solutions being offered up anywhere, be it on the Blogs or from the Political class running the show here.  From Zero Hedge to Donald Trump, from Jim Kunstler to Nazis in Hungary and the Czech Republic, EVERYBODY'S TALKIN'.



To add more grist to the mill, I ranted on this topic last night, detailing some of the complete STUPIDITY that is ongoing here as the crisis escalates.  Sad to say, the discourse is unlikely to get any smarter as time goes by here.



We also have up a new Collapse Survey TM for readers to drop down their opinions on how to handle the Refugee Clusterfuck.   Below, I'll also include a few of the current Text Responses to the Survey.  Also another LINK to the Survey of course.  Did I remind you enough times to TAKE THE FUCKING SURVEY?  lol.



It's a Wicked Problem.  How would you handle it?









Snippet:




https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJZV9EnVEAM7v6a.jpg…However, there is a rapidly escalating issue worth Ranting on, the Refugee issue. I wrote my first article on this issue a couple of weeks ago, and this week I published a new Collapse survey to find out what the Kollapsniks think we can or should do about this problem. Here you get all sorts of apocalyptic ideas which come up in the commentariat of the blogs, along the lines of shooting anyone who tries to cross a border. Even our own leading POTUS Candidate The Donald has come out in favor of Deporting everyone who doesn't have their papers in order.



https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c2/Buchenwald-bei-Weimar-am-24-April-1945.jpg/260px-Buchenwald-bei-Weimar-am-24-April-1945.jpgHowever, while we have a long standing issue with illegal immigration along the border with Mexico, these days the main focus for the Western Industrialized Nations is on Europe, where refugees from all over MENA are trying to escape escalating warfare and ever depleting supplies of water and food at ever higher prices they can't afford to try and make it to the “promised land” of Germany, of all places. You do know I am sure that when the Jews got kicked out of Russia during the Pogroms in the 1800s, where they ended up migrating to were places like Germany and Poland, and you also are aware what happened to 6M of them in the 1930s. Uncle Adolf handed them all a First Class Ticket to the Great Beyond TM, that's what happened. Do you really think the Germans of today will behave any differently than the Germans of the 1930s when Depression hits in full force?…




For the rest, LISTEN TO THE RANT!



This story came out on Zero Hedge after I recorded the Rant, but before I published.



It escalates rapidly…




Following Hungarian cameramen kicking 10-year-old girl refugees, and Czech police hauling immigrants of trains and writing numbers on their arms, it appears the horrors of the past are quickly forgotten when it comes to 'solutions' for the present. As The Jerusalem Post reports, the leader of the Czech 'nationalist' National Democracy Party, has called for refugees to be placed in Terezin – a former Nazi concentration camp"Why build tent camps for the aliens? We have the beautiful fortress town of Terezin where the aliens could concentrate before they are taken home by trains." Police are investigating whether his comments constitute a criminal act and Czech Jewish leaders have refused to comment on the incident.



As The Jerusalem Post reports, police in the Czech Republic are investigating comments made on Facebook by an extremist politician calling for refugees to be placed in Terezin, the former Nazi concentration camp.



Adam Bartos, the leader of the fringe yet vocal far-right nationalist National Democracy Party, published the comments about the site, located in the central European country, on Monday.



Reacting to the establishment of a refugee camp near the country’s border with Slovakia, Bartos wrote, “Why build tent camps for the aliens? We have the beautiful fortress town of Terezin where the aliens could concentrate before they are taken home by trains.”




TAKE THE REFUGEE SURVEY HERE



The FULL TEXT of the Rant will be available HERE in a few days



A Selection of  Early Responses to one of the survey text questions:



If you were in charge, what policies would you put in place now to try and stem the tide of refugees all over the world? (text response)



















Educating women seems to be the best way to lower the birth rate. I'd try to educate and empower women in 3rd world countries. Too little too late, though.

As King of the World. Migration is a fact. It will happen as climate change begins to bite. Develop soft population growth controls and alter national boundaries/resource consumption to accomodate as many people as possible while working to decreace total population to a sustainable number through natural reductions. (Like this ever has a chance in hell of happening).

There effectively is no way to stop people from trying to get to places that seem better than where they come from. The only thing that can be done is resolve some of the military conflicts; its the only thing about which we have any control (climate change is probably no longer in out control for the short term, anyway). Unfortunately, the conflicts continue to multiply without any end in sight. The last round of interventionist policies of the early 2000s caused even more instability than the previous round of interventions in the mid 1990s. Is there anyone that seriously thinks more intervention is going to solve the conflicts.

Title: Re: Turning Back the Boats
Post by: Surly1 on September 10, 2015, 04:28:37 AM
At least TA didn't come out for SINKING the boats.

RE

Australia’s Syrian Refugee Solution: “Turning Back the Boats” (http://www.globalresearch.ca/australias-syrian-refugee-solution-turning-back-the-boats/5474692)

A distinction without a difference. "Turning back the boats" means simply dying offshore and out of sight, and most importantly, out of camera range.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: luciddreams on September 10, 2015, 07:02:07 AM
This is definitely the defining issue of our time, and it's definitely coming to a theater near us soon.  The issue is already happening in the Mediterranean.  I'm not sure there are any plausible solutions to this problem either...it's sort of a predicament.  There's much that could be done, but none of it will be done.  We could start by having a global debt forgiveness, and then all of our leaders could pull their heads out of each others asses and start talking to each other about solutions that don't first address the issue of profit generation. 

They could talk about restoration agriculture and appropriate tech implementation.  They could talk about scaling down and focusing more on local bioregions for food production.  They could stop polluting our ground/surface water with chemical pollution.  America could start pulling our military tentacles away from the rest of the world and use the resources otherwise wasted on creating refugees to help feed them and educate them on solutions such as appropriate tech and restoration agriculture. 

There is plenty that needs to be done, and there are renewable resources that could be managed in a sustainable fashion.  We could stop pissing and shitting in potable water and instead make fertilizer to grow food, and methane to cook with.  We could stop cutting the rain forests down for beef production.  We could stop using nuclear power and instead start growing more bamboo (Japan is set to open a power plant that is powered by burning bamboo http://greengoldbamboo.com/?p=793] [url]http://greengoldbamboo.com/?p=793 (http://[url)[/url] ). 

Yes a lot of people will need to die over the long term.  But people can still have babies and population be reduced at the same time.  Climate change is going to make any solution more difficult, but there's not much that can be done about that.

There are plenty of solutions to the problems our world is facing now, but unfortunately it seems none of them will be employed.  Instead we're going to see more war and misery as all nations pull in and lock their borders.  Xenophobia is going to spread like wild fire all over the world as Oceania, Eurasia, and Eastasia become reality and not just Orwellian prognostication. 

Quote
Nineteen Eighty-Four, often published as 1984, is a dystopian novel by English author George Orwell published in 1949. The novel is set in Airstrip One (formerly known as Great Britain), a province of the superstate Oceania in a world of perpetual war, omnipresent government surveillance and public manipulation, dictated by a political system euphemistically named English Socialism (or Ingsoc in the government's invented language, Newspeak) under the control of a privileged Inner Party elite, that persecutes individualism and independent thinking as "thoughtcrime".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four#Political_geography (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four#Political_geography)

Sounds familiar doesn't it. 
Title: Re: Turning Back the Boats
Post by: Petty Tyrant on September 10, 2015, 11:06:40 AM
At least TA didn't come out for SINKING the boats.

RE

Australia’s Syrian Refugee Solution: “Turning Back the Boats” (http://www.globalresearch.ca/australias-syrian-refugee-solution-turning-back-the-boats/5474692)

A distinction without a difference. "Turning back the boats" means simply dying offshore and out of sight, and most importantly, out of camera range.


RE , the asylum seekers sometimes sink the boats themselves, and I have to say this article is wrong on almost everything.

The authors credential is a lecturer in Melbourne yet he writes "distant australia is trying to influence the debate on syrian refugees...". He is in Melbourne so it is not distant to him which is also why he would know better than all the statements made. He  should know the problem and the policies predate both tony abbott and the syrian crisis by at least 15 years, and has always been a big election issue.

Using comments made in parliament to decide who can be settled here immediately is not trying to influence anyone else. If u are well documented as being christian then u dont need any time taken to do the background checking you are not potentially a wahabi extremist. This has also been going on with many groups for a very long time. If u are from sri lanka and are a hindu thamil it is established you face persecution. You do not if you are a sinhalese bhuddist from sri lanka. After the karzi govt was installed in afghanistan the hazara were persecuted by the pashtun with western blessing or a blind eye. So there is no preference for christians it is only a matter of immediate expediency.  I met a guy from cuba who was claiming asulum here as a persecuted christian and it was not automatic approved because he is christian as the author suggests. There are many somali settled here and they are all non christian. There has never been any attempt to keep their religion away.

He writes this "Labor has pressed for 10,000, while the Greens have asked for double that number" the day after tony abbott agreed to take 30,000.  That is digital media, he could not have missed the truth and it had not already gone to press too late to change. Tony abbots approval is very high  right now because of that, not because of what the author claims.

He would know the population is only 23 million so that makes the highest per capita resettlement of those refugees after sweden and germany. They have had one of the highest intake for a long time,  the refugee crisis was going on here back when there was "fortress europe" before the intro of the EU changed that.

He also leaves out that the reason they started paying  the people smuggler to turn around is because when the boats were intercepted the people on board were making holes in the hull and sinking the wooden boat which meant the navy then had to rescue them. many drowned when they were not rescued in time,  other times a cargo ship picked them  up and when told they would be dropped off at the nearest port they took over the ship and forced it to go to australia.

Its overall stupid to say that this is tony abbotts solution only as the idea of changing the law to make the outlying islands exempt from having reached australia and then qualifying to settle in australia was done long before he became PM. The detention centres in other countries was introduced by the opposition.  If he really was trying to influence europe he would tell Tsipras to do that to Kos, exempt it.   but in fact i think they like to keep as secret as possible what they do because it is all questionable in international laws.

The detention centres do have flaws but at least are better than tent cities refugee camps run by th UN,  being proper buildings. There definitely needs to be oversight introduced to it.

Also processed refugees then get housing and welfare  payments,  a pension plus about a hundred dollars per week per child. Thats called Family Tax Benefit but is a misnomer because the more tax you pay the less you get,  over about 80k u get nothing. They are allowed to work too right away, often they go to english lessons  every day for a while first.

Thats the ENTIRE system, not involving any sleeping at train stations. Not now at least,  not until the govt cant afford to keep doing it.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: agelbert on September 10, 2015, 11:40:52 AM
Well, UB, what say ye about THIS proposed solution?

Egypt billionaire offers to buy Med island for refugees  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png)

The telecoms tycoon announced on Twitter that he would temporary shelters to house the people, before starting to building housing, schools, universities and hospitals.
POSTED: 04 Sep 2015 00:12
 
CAIRO: Egyptian billionaire Naguib Sawiris has offered to buy an island off Greece or Italy and develop it to help hundreds of thousands of people fleeing from Syria and other conflicts.

The telecoms tycoon first announced the initiative on Twitter.

"Greece or Italy sell me an island, I'll call its independence and host the migrants and provide jobs for them building their new country," he wrote.

More than 2,300 people have died at sea trying to reach Europe since January, many of them Syrians who fled their country's four-and-a-half year conflict. Sawiris said in a television interview that he would approach the governments of Greece and Italy about his plan.

Asked by AFP whether he believed it could work, he said: "Of course it's feasible. You have dozens of islands which are deserted and could accommodate hundreds of thousands of refugees."

Sawiris said an island off Greece or Italy could cost between $10 million and $100 million, but added the "main thing is investment in infrastructure". There would be "temporary shelters to house the people, then you start employing the people to build housing, schools, universities, hospitals.

"And if things improve, whoever wants to go back (to their homeland) goes back," said Sawiris, whose family developed the popular El Gouna resort on Egypt's Red Sea coast.

He conceded such a plan could face challenges, including the likely difficulty of persuading Greece or Italy to sell an island, and figuring out jurisdiction and customs regulations.

But those who took shelter would be treated as "human beings," he said. "The way they are being treated now, they are being treated like cattle."


Sawiris is the chief executive of Orascom TMT, which operates mobile telephone networks in a number of Middle Eastern and African countries plus Korea as well as underwater communications networks. He also owns an Egyptian television channel.

- AFP/yt
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/egypt-billionaire-offers/2099374.html (http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/egypt-billionaire-offers/2099374.html)
Title: Refugees: It's the ENERGY, Stupid!
Post by: RE on September 11, 2015, 05:49:47 AM
http://www.mintpressnews.com/migrant-crisis-syria-war-fueled-by-competing-gas-pipelines/209294/ (http://www.mintpressnews.com/migrant-crisis-syria-war-fueled-by-competing-gas-pipelines/209294/)

Migrant Crisis & Syria War Fueled By Competing Gas Pipelines

Don’t let anyone fool you: Sectarian strife in Syria has been engineered to provide cover for a war for access to oil and gas, and the power and money that come along with it.
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Refugees and migrants wait to cross the border from the northern Greek village of Idomeni to southern Macedonia, Monday, Sept. 7, 2015. Greece has borne the brunt of a massive refugee and migration flow of people heading into the European Union. (AP Photo/Giannis Papanikos)

Refugees and migrants wait to cross the border from the northern Greek village of Idomeni to southern Macedonia, Monday, Sept. 7, 2015. Greece has borne the brunt of a massive refugee and migration flow of people heading into the European Union. (AP Photo/Giannis Papanikos)


 

Editor’s note: This article has been updated to reflect recent Wikileaks revelations of US State Department leaks that show plans to destabilize Syria and overthrow the Syrian government as early as 2006.  The leaks reveal that these plans were given to the US directly from the Israeli government and would be formalized through instigating civil strife and sectarianism through partnership with nations like Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Qatar and even Egypt to break down the power structue in Syria to essentially to weaken Iran and Hezbolla. The leaks also reveal Israeli plans to use this crisis to expand it’s occupation of the Golan Heights for additional oil exploration and military expansion. 


 

MINNEAPOLIS — Images of Aylan Kurdi, the three-year-old Syrian boy who washed up dead on Mediterranean shores in his family’s attempt to flee war-torn Syria, have grabbed the attention of people around the world, sparking outrage about the true costs of war.

The heart-wrenching refugee crisis unfolding across the Middle East and at European borders has ignited a much needed conversation on the ongoing strife and instability that’s driving people from their homes in countries like Syria, Libya and Iraq. It’s brought international attention to the inhumane treatment these refugees are receiving if — and it is a major “if” — they arrive at Europe’s door.

In Syria, for example, foreign powers have sunk the nation into a nightmare combination of civil war, foreign invasion and terrorism. Syrians are in the impossible position of having to choose between living in a warzone, being targeted by groups like ISIS and the Syrian government’s brutal crackdown, or faring dangerous waters with minimal safety equipment only to be denied food, water and safety by European governments if they reach shore.

Other Syrians fleeing the chaos at home have turned to neighboring Arab Muslim countries. Jordan alone has absorbed over half a million Syrian refugees; Lebanon has accepted nearly 1.5 million; and Iraq and Egypt have taken in several hundred thousand.

Although it’s not an Arab nation or even part of the Middle East, Iran sent 150 tons of humanitarian goods, including 3,000 tents and 10,000 blankets, to the Red Crescents of Jordan, Iraq and Lebanon via land routes to be distributed among the Syrian refugees residing in the three countries last year.

Turkey has taken in nearly 2 million refugees to date. Turkey’s Prime Minister Recep Erdogan made international headlines for opening his nation’s arms to migrants, positioning himself as a kind of savior in the process.

A paramilitary police officer carries the lifeless body of three-year-old Aylan Kurdi after he drowned when the boat he and his family members were in capsized near the Turkish resort of Bodrum early Wednesday, Sept. 2, 2015. (Photo: Nilüfer Demir/DHA)

A paramilitary police officer carries the lifeless body of three-year-old Aylan Kurdi after he drowned when the boat he and his family members were in capsized near the Turkish resort of Bodrum early Wednesday, Sept. 2, 2015. (Photo: Nilüfer Demir/DHA)

Meanwhile, Gulf Arab nations like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates have provided refuge to zero Syrian refugees.

While there’s certainly a conversation taking place about refugees — who they are, where they’re going, who’s helping them, and who isn’t — what’s absent is a discussion on how to prevent these wars from starting in the first place. Media outlets and political talking heads have found many opportunities to point fingers in the blame game, but not one media organization has accurately broken down what’s driving the chaos: control over gas, oil and resources.

Indeed, it’s worth asking: How did demonstrations held by “hundreds” of protesters demanding economic change in Syria four years ago devolve into a deadly sectarian civil war, fanning the flames of extremism haunting the world today and creating the world’s second largest refugee crisis?

While the media points its finger to Syrian President Bashar Assad’s barrel bombs and political analysts call for more airstrikes against ISIS and harsher sanctions against Syria, we’re four years into the crisis and most people have no idea how this war even got started.

 

This “civil war” is not about religion

Citing a lack of access on the ground, the United Nations stopped regularly updating its numbers of casualties in the Syrian civil war in January 2014. Estimates put the death toll between 140,200 and 330,380, with as many as 6 million Syrians displaced, according to the U.N.

While there is no question that the Syrian government is responsible for many of the casualties resulting from its brutal crackdown, this is not just a Syrian problem.

Foreign meddling in Syria began several years before the Syrian revolt erupted.  Wikieaks released leaked US State Department cables from 2006 revealing US plans to overthrow the Syrian government through instigating civil strife, and receiving these very orders straight from Tel Aviv.  The leaks reveal the United State’s partnership with nations like Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Qatar and even Egypt to use sectarianism to divide Syria through the Sunni and Shiite divide to destabilize the nation to weaken Iran and Hezbolla.  Israel is also revealed to attempt to use this crisis to expand it’s occupation of the Golan Heights for additional oil exploration.

According to major media outlets like the BBC and the Associated Press, the demonstrations that supposedly swept Syria were comprised of only hundreds of people, but additional Wikileaks cables reveal CIA involvement on the ground in Syria to instigate these very demonstrations as early as March 2011.

FILE - In this Monday, Dec. 19, 2011 file photo, Syrians hold a large poster depicting Syria's President Bashar Assad during a rally in Damascus, Syria. Some activists expressed regret that one year later their "revolution" against President Bashar Assad's rule had become mired in violence. (AP Photo/Muzaffar Salman, File)

FILE – In this Monday, Dec. 19, 2011 file photo, Syrians hold a large poster depicting Syria’s President Bashar Assad during a rally in Damascus, Syria. Some activists expressed regret that one year later their “revolution” against President Bashar Assad’s rule had become mired in violence. (AP Photo/Muzaffar Salman, File)

 

Just a few months into the demonstrations which now consisted of hundreds of armed protesters with CIA ties, demonstrations grew larger, armed non-Syrian rebel groups swarmed into Syria, and a severe government crackdown swept through the country to deter this foreign meddling. It became evident that the United States, United Kingdom, France, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Turkey would be jumping on the opportunity to organize, arm and finance rebels to form the Free Syrian Army as outlined in the State Department plans to destabilize Syria. (Just a few months ago, WikiLeaks confirmed this when it released Saudi intelligence that revealed Turkey, Qatar and Saudi Arabia had been working hand in hand to arm and finance rebels to overthrow the Syrian government since 2012.)

These foreign nations created a pact in 2012 called “The Group of Friends of the Syrian People,” a name that couldn’t be further from the truth. Their agenda was to divide and conquer in order to wreak havoc across Syria in view of overthrowing Syrian President Bashar Assad.

A Free Syrian Army soldier carries his weapon at the northern town of Sarmada, in Idlib province, Syria, Wednesday, Aug. 1, 2012. (AP Photo)

A Free Syrian Army soldier carries his weapon at the northern town of Sarmada, in Idlib province, Syria, Wednesday, Aug. 1, 2012. (AP Photo)

The true agenda to hijack Syria’s revolt quickly became evident, with talking heads inserting Syria’s alliance with Iran as a threat to the security and interests of the United States and its allies in the region. It’s no secret that Syria’s government is a major arms, oil and gas, and weapons ally of Iran and Lebanon’s resistance political group Hezbollah.

But it’s important to note the timing: This coalition and meddling in Syria came about immediately on the heels of discussions of an Iran-Iraq-Syria gas pipeline that was to be built between 2014 and 2016 from Iran’s giant South Pars field through Iraq and Syria. With a possible extension to Lebanon, it would eventually reach Europe, the target export market.

Perhaps the most accurate description of the current crisis over gas, oil and pipelines that is raging in Syria has been described by Dmitry Minin, writing for the Strategic Cultural Foundation in May 2013:

“A battle is raging over whether pipelines will go toward Europe from east to west, from Iran and Iraq to the Mediterranean coast of Syria, or take a more northbound route from Qatar and Saudi Arabia via Syria and Turkey. Having realized that the stalled Nabucco pipeline, and indeed the entire Southern Corridor, are backed up only by Azerbaijan’s reserves and can never equal Russian supplies to Europe or thwart the construction of the South Stream, the West is in a hurry to replace them with resources from the Persian Gulf. Syria ends up being a key link in this chain, and it leans in favor of Iran and Russia; thus it was decided in the Western capitals that its regime needs to change.

 

It’s the oil, gas and pipelines, stupid!

Indeed, tensions were building between Russia, the U.S. and the European Union amid concerns that the European gas market would be held hostage to Russian gas giant Gazprom. The proposed Iran-Iraq-Syria gas pipeline would be essential to diversifying Europe’s energy supplies away from Russia.

Turkey is Gazprom’s second-largest customer. The entire Turkish energy security structure relies on gas from Russia and Iran. Plus, Turkey was harboring Ottoman-like ambitions of becoming a strategic crossroads for the export of Russian, Caspian-Central Asian, Iraqi and Iranian oil and even gas to Europe.

The Guardian reported in August 2013:

“Assad refused to sign a proposed agreement with Qatar and Turkey that would run a pipeline from the latter’s North field, contiguous with Iran’s South Pars field, through Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria and on to Turkey, with a view to supply European markets – albeit crucially bypassing Russia. Assad’s rationale was ‘to protect the interests of [his] Russian ally, which is Europe’s top supplier of natural gas.’”

Note the purple line which traces the proposed Qatar-Turkey natural gas pipeline and note that all of the countries highlighted in red are part of a new coalition hastily put together after Turkey finally (in exchange for NATO’s acquiescence on Erdogan’s politically-motivated war with the PKK) agreed to allow the US to fly combat missions against ISIS targets from Incirlik. Now note which country along the purple line is not highlighted in red. That’s because Bashar al-Assad didn’t support the pipeline and now we’re seeing what happens when you’re a Mid-East strongman and you decide not to support something the US and Saudi Arabia want to get done.

Note the purple line which traces the proposed Qatar-Turkey natural gas pipeline and note that all of the countries highlighted in red are part of a new coalition hastily put together after Turkey finally (in exchange for NATO’s acquiescence on Erdogan’s politically-motivated war with the PKK) agreed to allow the US to fly combat missions against ISIS targets from Incirlik. Now note which country along the purple line is not highlighted in red. That’s because Bashar al-Assad didn’t support the pipeline and now we’re seeing what happens when you’re a Mid-East strongman and you decide not to support something the US and Saudi Arabia want to get done. (Map: ZeroHedge.com)

Knowing Syria was a critical piece in its energy strategy, Turkey attempted to persuade Syrian President Bashar Assad to reform this Iranian pipeline and to work with the proposed Qatar-Turkey pipeline, which would ultimately satisfy Turkey and the Gulf Arab nations’ quest for dominance over gas supplies. But after Assad refused Turkey’s proposal, Turkey and its allies became the major architects of Syria’s “civil war.”

Much of the strategy currently at play was described back in a 2008 U.S. Army-funded RAND report, “Unfolding the Future of the Long War”:

“The geographic area of proven oil reserves coincides with the power base of much of the Salafi-jihadist network. This creates a linkage between oil supplies and the long war that is not easily broken or simply characterized. … For the foreseeable future, world oil production growth and total output will be dominated by Persian Gulf resources. … The region will therefore remain a strategic priority, and this priority will interact strongly with that of prosecuting the long war.”

In this context, the report identifies the divide and conquer strategy while exploiting the Sunni-Shiite divide to protect Gulf oil and gas supplies while maintaining a Gulf Arab state dominance over oil markets.

“Divide and Rule focuses on exploiting fault lines between the various Salafi-jihadist groups to turn them against each other and dissipate their energy on internal conflicts. This strategy relies heavily on covert action, information operations (IO), unconventional warfare, and support to indigenous security forces. … the United States and its local allies could use the nationalist jihadists to launch proxy IO campaigns to discredit the transnational jihadists in the eyes of the local populace. … U.S. leaders could also choose to capitalize on the ‘Sustained Shia-Sunni Conflict’ trajectory by taking the side of the conservative Sunni regimes against Shiite empowerment movements in the Muslim world…. possibly supporting authoritative Sunni governments against a continuingly hostile Iran.”

The report notes that another option would be “to take sides in the conflict, possibly supporting authoritative Sunni governments against a continuingly hostile Iran.”

This framework crafted an interesting axis: Turkey, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, U.S., Britain and France vs. Syria, Iran and Russia.

 

Divide and conquer: A path to regime change

With the U.S., France, Britain, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Turkey — aka, the new “Friends of Syria” coalition — publicly calling for the overthrow of Syrian President Bashar Assad between  2011 and 2012 after Assad’s refusal to sign onto the gas pipeline, the funds and arms flowing into Syria to feed the so-called “moderate” rebels were pushing Syria into a humanitarian crisis. Rebel groups were being organized left and right, many of which featured foreign fighters and many of which had allied with al-Qaida.

Saudi Arabia's permanent representative to the League of Arab States Ahmad al-Qattan, center, attends the Arab League summit in Baghdad, Iraq, Thursday, March, 29, 2012. The annual Arab summit meeting opened in the Iraqi capital Baghdad on Thursday with only 10 of the leaders of the 22-member Arab League in attendance and amid a growing rift between Arab countries over how far they should go to end the one-year conflict in Syria. (AP Photo/Karim Kadim)

Saudi Arabia’s permanent representative to the League of Arab States Ahmad al-Qattan, center, attends the Arab League summit in Baghdad, Iraq, Thursday, March, 29, 2012. (AP Photo)

The Syrian government responded with a heavy hand, targeting rebel held areas and killing civilians in the process.

Since Syria is religiously diverse, the so-called “Friends of Syria” pushed sectarianism as their official “divide and conquer” strategy to oust Assad. Claiming that Alawites ruled over a majority Sunni nation, the call by the “moderate” U.S.-backed rebels became one about Sunni liberation.

Although the war is being sold to the public as a Sunni-Shiite conflict, so-called Sunni groups like ISIS,  the Syrian al-Qaida affiliate Jabhat al-Nusra (the Nusra Front) and even the “moderate” Free Syrian Army have indiscriminately targeted Syria’s Sunnis, Shiites, Christians and Jews. At the same time, these same foreign nations supported and even armed the Bahraini government, which claims to be Sunni, in its violent crackdown on the majority Shiite pro-democracy demonstrations that swept the nation.

The Syrian government army itself is over 80 percent Sunni, which indicates that the true agenda has been politically — not religiously — motivated.

In addition to this, the Assad family is Alawite, an Islamic sect that the media has clumped in with Shiites, though most Shiites would agree that the two are unrelated. Further, the Assad family is described as secular and running a secular nation. Counting Alawites as Shiites was simply another way to push a sectarian framework for the conflict: It allowed for the premise that the Syria-Iran alliance was based on religion, when, in fact, it was an economic relationship.

This framework carefully crafted the Syrian conflict as a Sunni revolution to liberate itself from Shiite influence that Iran was supposedly spreading to Iraq, Syria and Lebanon.

But the truth is, Syria’s Sunni community is divided, and many defected to join groups like the Free Syrian Army, ISIS and al-Qaida. And as mentioned earlier, over 80 percent of Assad’s military is Sunni.

As early as 2012, additional rebels armed and financed by Arab Gulf nations and Turkey like al-Qaida and the Muslim Brotherhood, declared all-out war against Shiites. They even threatened to attack Lebanon’s Hezbollah and Iraq’s government after they had overthrown the Assad government.

Soon after, the majority of the Muslim Brotherhood rebels became part of al-Qaida-affiliated groups. Together, they announced that they would destroy all shrines — not just those ones which hold particular importance to Shiites.

Hezbollah entered the scene in 2012 and allied itself with the Syrian government to fight al-Nusra and ISIS, which were officially being armed and financed by Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Turkey. And all the arms were actively being sold to these nations by the United States. Thus, US arms were falling into the hands of the same terror group the US claims to be fighting in its broader War on Terror.

Hezbollah fighters carry the coffin of Hezbollah member Mohammad Issa who was killed in an airstrike that killed six members of the Lebanese militant group and an Iranian general in Syria, during his funeral procession, in the southern village of Arab Salim, Lebanon, Tuesday, Jan. 20, 2015. Hezbollah has accused Israel of carrying out Sunday's airstrike, which occurred on the Syrian side of the Golan Heights. Issa was the highest-ranking among the group, and was among the senior cadres who headed the group's operations in Syria against the Sunni-led rebellion. (AP Photo/Mohammed Zaatari)

Hezbollah fighters carry the coffin of Hezbollah member Mohammad Issa who was killed in an airstrike that killed six members of the Lebanese militant group and an Iranian general in Syria, during his funeral procession, in the southern village of Arab Salim, Lebanon, Tuesday, Jan. 20, 2015. Hezbollah has accused Israel of carrying out Sunday’s airstrike, which occurred on the Syrian side of the Golan Heights. Issa was the highest-ranking among the group, and was among the senior cadres who headed the group’s operations in Syria against the Sunni-led rebellion. (AP Photo/Mohammed Zaatari)

According to reports, Hezbollah was and has been been active in preventing rebel penetration from Syria to Lebanon, being one of the most active forces in the Syrian civil war spillover in Lebanon. Despite this, the U.S. sanctioned both the Syrian government and Hezbollah in 2012.

Also that year, Russia and Iran sent military advisers to assist the Syrian government in quelling the terror groups, but Iranian troops were not on the ground fighting during this time.

What was once a secular, diverse and peaceful nation, was looking more like it was on its way to becoming the next Afghanistan; its people living under Taliban-style rule as jihadists took over more land and conquered more cities.

 

Effects of foreign meddling outweigh self-determination

If you think that was hard to follow, you’re certainly not alone.

Most sectarian civil wars are purposely crafted to pit sides against one another to allow for a “divide and conquer” approach that breaks larger concentrations of power into smaller factions that have more difficulty linking up. It’s a colonial doctrine that the British Empire famously used, and what we see taking place in Syria is no different.

So, let’s get one thing straight: This is not about religion. It might be convenient to say that Arabs or Muslims kill each other, and it’s easy to frame these conflicts as sectarian to paint the region and its people as barbaric. But this Orientalist, overly simplistic view of conflict in the Middle East dehumanizes the victims of these wars to justify direct and indirect military action.

If the truth was presented to the public from the perspective that these wars are about economic interests, most people would not support any covert funding and arming of rebels or direct intervention. In fact, the majority of the public would protest against war. But when something is presented to the public as a matter of good versus evil, we are naturally inclined to side with the “good” and justify war to fight off the supposed “evil.”

The political rhetoric has been carefully crafted to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable. Ultimately, no matter the agendas, the alliances or instability brought on by foreign meddling, the calls for freedom, democracy and equality that erupted in 2011 were real then and they’re real today. And let’s not forget that the lack of freedom, democracy and equality have been brought on more by foreign meddling to prop up brutal dictators and arm terror groups than by self-determination.

Migrant men help a fellow migrant man holding a boy as they are stuck between Macedonian riot police officers and migrants during a clash near the border train station of Idomeni, northern Greece, as they wait to be allowed by the Macedonian police to cross the border from Greece to Macedonia, Friday, Aug. 21, 2015. Macedonian special police forces have fired stun grenades to disperse thousands of migrants stuck on a no-man's land with Greece, a day after Macedonia declared a state of emergency on its borders to deal with a massive influx of migrants heading north to Europe. (AP Photo/Darko Vojinovic)

Refugee’s assist a fellow Refugee holding a boy as they are stuck between Macedonian riot police officers and refugees during a clash near the border train station of Idomeni, northern Greece, as they wait to be allowed by the Macedonian police to cross the border from Greece to Macedonia, Friday, Aug. 21, 2015. Macedonian special police forces have fired stun grenades to disperse thousands of refugees stuck on a no-man’s land with Greece, a day after Macedonia declared a state of emergency on its borders to deal with a massive influx of refugees heading north to Europe. (AP Photo/Darko Vojinovic)

The people in the Middle East once stood united and strong together against foreign meddling, exploitation and colonialism no matter their religious or cultural background. But today, the Middle East is being torn to shreds by manipulative plans to gain oil and gas access by pitting people against one another based on religion. The ensuing chaos provides ample cover to install a new regime that’s more amenable to opening up oil pipelines and ensuring favorable routes for the highest bidders.

And in this push for energy, it’s the people who suffer most. In Syria, they are fleeing en masse. They’re waking up, putting sneakers on their little boys and girls, and hopping on boats without life jackets, hoping just to make it to another shore. They’re risking their lives, knowing full well that they may never reach that other shore, because the hope of somewhere else is better than the reality at home.

Title: Refugees in Hungary hang back in tent city, fearing detention camps
Post by: RE on September 11, 2015, 11:14:36 PM
Refugees in Hungary hang back in tent city, fearing detention camps (http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/9/12/refugees-tent-city-fear-detention-camp.html)


As others continue journey north, many arrivals try to avoid registering with government amid threat of local internment

September 12, 2015 5:00AM ET
by Kristina Jovanovski

(http://cdn.rt.com/files/2015.09/original/55f2fb2fc4618850678b45af.jpg)

NEAR RÖSZKE, Hungary — Amid muddy farm fields, buses waiting for refugees and first aid centers were dozens of tents on the Hungary-Serbia border. One of them was Mohammed Shadi's home for the foreseeable future.

He arrived Thursday with his wife and two kids and did not know how to get away without being sent to one of the official camps set up by the Hungarian government, which have become a source of fear for many refugees who worry about getting stuck in poor conditions with little chance of moving on.

"I'm staying here until I find a way of leaving without having to leave my fingerprints," he said.

Like many refugees, he was afraid that if he registered as an asylum seeker in Hungary, he would be sent back there after entering another country. (He and many other refugees hope to settle in the more prosperous countries of Western and Northern Europe.) That meant he was stuck in what has become an tent city on the border, with other refugees who are trying to figure out a way of escaping registration or are waiting to be taken to a refugee camp.

The mix of informal tent cities and official camps at Röszke are becoming yet another symbol in the ongoing crisis of largely Syrian refugees moving across Europe as they flee war-torn homelands and seek countries where they believe they can find safe havens and build new lives. At Röszke, footage recently emerged of refugees being thrown bags of food, as Human Rights Watch described people being held like "cattle in pens."

Amid the scenes of chaos in Röszke and elsewhere are thousands of individual stories of escape from conflict — as well as a desperate desire to get out of Hungary, as the country’s right-wing government has desperately tried to keep the refugees moving through the country and officials have been accused of stoking fears and prejudice.

Shadi, 30, left Syria and wants to go to Sweden, where he hopes to open a tailor shop and see his children go to school.

But living in these bleak conditions has made him question if all that is possible. "All of my hopes and [goals] ... were broken," he said.

About a 10-minute walk from the tents, train tracks run through the border. In a steady flow, refugees walked on the tracks into Hungary, carrying the few belongings they still have. Children held on to the their parents' shoulders. Volunteers waited with raincoats. Along the tracks were discarded shoes and a broken-down tent, and farmers rode their tractors on the fields.

By next week, that journey might become a lot riskier. The Hungarian government plans to finish a fence along the border with Serbia, and people who climb over it could face incarceration.

(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/9/9/1441824650394/Syrians-entering-Hungary--009.jpg?w=620&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10&s=31ef1ee96bc4ec41c6debed8070640d8)

For those who choose to get registered and take the buses to unclear destinations, the decision does not make their long journey any easier.

Abdalrahman Sayed, 23, was part of a group of 14 people from a suburb in Syria who walked through the border in the afternoon. "It was too hard. We had two children and very heavy bags," he said.

He asked if there was a doctor, because he had a sore throat, saying it felt as if there were a knife in it, and he started to cough. "Because I shouted in the boat, I [fell off] two times," he said. "The boat is filled by water. We had children in the boat."

Sayed was studying English literature in his third year at a university in Damascus but could not deal with the conflict anymore. "Living was difficult for us. So hard, so hard," he said.

He said he left Syria because the government forces young people like him into military service and he was afraid the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant will continue to take territory in the country.

Now he sat in a blue tent with aluminum foil spread on the ground and water dripping inside while he dreams of a new life in Sweden to continue his studies.

"We are searching for a good life," he said. "Our life in Syria is not good."

Unlike others there, Sayed was ready to take a bus that would likely send him to a formal refugee camp. "All my journey was horrible, so I won't be afraid of [another] camp ... It's all horrible here."

Before he could visit a doctor, a bus arrived, and he got into the crowd of people wanting to board. Chaos reigned about who would get on and when. One man yelled out, "Family, family," to the police to stress he was with children. One policeman asked another group how many children they had with them. Sayed waited with one backpack under his coat to shield it from the rain, with another bag slung over his right arm. The police told people to back up. Sayed missed the bus and had to wait for the next one.

Amid the steady flow of people crossing into Hungary was Naim Alkordi, 25, who was walking along the train tracks with his girlfriend, uncle, aunt and cousins. He said he was a rebel fighter near Damascus but fled after driving to Aleppo, then walking to Turkey.

"In Syria, I don't have house … The war is very [dangerous]," he said. "[I was] a sniper in Syria, but I don't love war." He worked as a cook for a year in Istanbul with his parents, but they stayed behind.

"I want to go to Germany. I want a new life," Alkordi said.

He was afraid of getting his fingerprints taken, but he waited for one of the buses. But amid confusion, he — along with the rest of the crowd — decided to start walking, believing that no bus would come.

By 8 in the evening, dozens of refugees were walking down a country road farther into Hungary, not knowing what city they were heading for. Dogs barked in driveways, drivers honked their horns as they sped by, and police in cars with flashing lights caught up to the refugees and warned them to stay on the side of the road so that they would not get hit.

After about four hours of walking, often in the freezing rain, they arrived on the outskirts of the town of Szeged. Men started to approach them, yelling "Taxi, taxi," saying they could get them to the capital, Budapest, or even Austria. One of the refugees turned to another and said, "Smuggler."

Fearful of going to the town's train station, where police often are, Alkordi and his family talked to a man who offered to drive them to Budapest for 200 euros ($227) each. They decided to walk on. By midnight they arrived at Szeged's train station. The group as a small fraction of its original size. Alkordi said many decided to pay to be driven.

After the remaining people got tea and sandwiches from volunteers, police started shouting for them to get into a waiting bus.

Alkordi said he did not want to get on the bus but resigned himself to his likely fate.

"To camp, right?" he said. "[At least] I will sleep."
Title: The Long Road
Post by: JasonHep on September 12, 2015, 02:22:55 AM


gc2smOff the keyboard of Jason Heppenstall



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Published on 22 Billion Energy Slaves on September 10, 2015












Refugees walking northwards towards Sweden along a motorway in Denmark


 



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For the last few days hundreds of Syrian refugees have been trudging northwards up Danish motorways trying to get to Sweden. Right now, in Europe, if you’re a refugee you want to be in either Germany or Sweden as these are the two countries that have the most lenient asylum policies. Basically put, they won’t write a number on your arm, stick you in a detention camp or clobber you with nightsticks.


 


 


Judging by images on the news it’s a surreal sight. Denmark is a land of orderly neatness and happy conformity where the ugly reality of the ‘outside world’ is kept at bay. This is no place for unsightly groups of refugees. Long term readers of 22 Billion Energy Slaves will remember that I used to live in Denmark where I worked as a journalist, and moved to the UK two and a half years ago. Before that I lived in Spain, and before Spain I lived in Denmark again. As an EU passport holder I can flit from country to country and call myself an ‘expat’, and nobody calls me an immigrant or a refugee or an alien. It’s my privilege – I’m one of the lucky ones.


 


But the refugees don’t have any such luck. They drew the short straw of being born in the wold's most unstable region, and now they want to get out of it, even if it means crossing the sea in a leaky dinghy and risking their lives. Most of them don't actually want to be in Denmark. If a bridge could be built that passed right over the country you can bet that it would be filled with Syrians trudging from Germany to Sweden. Basically, they are unwelcome in Denmark. Fetegan Altorek, a 26 year-old Syrian yesterday remarked “It’s obvious to see they [the Danes] don’t like us. They spit on us and fight us.”


 


Perhaps they had not seen the adverts put out by the Danish government in recent weeks telling them they they were not welcome in the World's Happiest Nation (TM).


 













Travellers at the airport receive a different welcome


 


But not all Danes are like that, of course, and some have been stopping to offer lifts to the bridge that separates Denmark from Sweden. However, this is regarded as ‘people-smuggling’ and carries the risk of a three-year prison sentence. Some do it anyway, reminding their forgetful compatriots that Danish citizens once helped Jews flee to Sweden during the Second World War. “At the time we were occupied by the Nazis, but this time we voted them into power,” quipped someone on social media, referring to the current government and the resurgence of the far-left nationalists the Danish People’s Party.


 


Apart from the lure of not being incarcerated or deported, why do so many Syrians want to get to Sweden? To live in peace and join family already there, they say. I had a chance to see some of them doing just that when I went on a walk to a Swedish forest last year. I wrote about it in my book The Path to Odin’s Lake, in a chapter I called The Far Flung People. This is an excerpt, in which I had just emerged from the forest into a small rural town in a bucolic setting, and had found a hotel in which to get some breakfast:


 





 


The girl on duty, presiding over an empty breakfast buffet, was accommodating if a little frosty, although in all probability I did look as if I had been dragged through a hedge backwards. Which was half true. I poured myself a coffee and sipped the sweet black liquid, savouring its restorative effect as I gazed out of a window at the empty streets. By the time I had finished my second refill and also eaten a Danish pastry (also called Vienna bread in Sweden) people in the outside world had begun to wake up and give some life to the town.


But something was odd. One might have expected the people walking the streets in a tiny town in rural Sweden to be, well, Swedish. But almost everyone I saw looked to be from the Middle East. Women wearing headscarves pushed prams, men sat on walls idly fingering worry beads and olive-skinned teenage girls giggled and chatted into their mobile phones. Among them was the occasional obviously Swedish person – an old silver-haired woman here, a blonde boy on a moped there – but the majority were clearly from somewhere else. They were all smart-casual dressed, as if they’d just stepped out of an H&M store. “What’s going on?”, I asked the girl behind the breakfast bar who, in other circumstances, could have been a catwalk model and perhaps was. “Are these people refugees?”


“Yes,” she replied sparsely. “There is a centre here.”


I asked where they had come from. “Mostly Syria, from the war”, she explained. “Some from Somalia.” I thought back to the man I had seen earlier at the lake, about how his eyes had been so wasted. I didn’t think Somalis liked to drink.


“There is nothing for them to do here”, said the girl. “They are not allowed to work, so they just hang around. Some have bad habits.”


I wondered if this was causing problems. Sweden, famously, is the most accommodating country in the world when it comes to taking in refugees. Its liberal policies dating back to the 1960s have been the envy of progressives the world over, and many of the Swedes I had met over the years were justifiably proud of them. But decisions about refugees were made in faraway Stockholm, and such an influx of people from a different country, with a different religion and culture, was bound to cause tension, I thought. The girl seemed to read my mind.


“Some people say there are too many for our town – we are only 800 people but we now have to support 400 refugees.”


“Is this a problem?” I asked.


But the girl just shrugged. “No problem, really”, she said. I tried to ask her more questions but she became tight-lipped, indicating that the matter was closed, so instead I asked her how much it cost to stay the night in the hotel.


 





 


Röstånga in the afternoon wasn’t much different from Röstånga in the morning. The lumber trucks still rolled southwards on the Riksväg 13, the occasional moped or Volvo stopped at the petrol station and the streets were still scattered with bored-looking refugees. They milled around listlessly in small groups; a bunch of pram-pushing women here, a row of men sitting on a wall there. Their presence in this rural Swedish hamlet was incongruous and they seemed like actors in a movie who had turned up on the wrong set. It was as if they were waiting for something to happen, a bus to arrive, or a concert to start.


During half a lifetime of travelling the world I had noticed that in most countries people’s lives are played out in public places. From Madrid to Istanbul, Guatemala City to Mumbai, it is on the streets that social interaction takes place, news is passed on, gossip is blathered, deals are done and emotions are vented. Not so in Scandinavia. The streets here are infrastructure – cold boulevards for the conveyance of people and goods from A to B. Scandinavian life takes place in private behind closed doors, and perhaps that’s why these people seemed out of place.


Passing a few women on the pavement I tried to make eye contact with them. Most blocked me out but one made the briefest of contact before looking quickly away, as if embarrassed. Another group, this time teenage girls, gave me the same response. The groups were always segregated by sex. It was a curious thing, this business of casual greeting. During my perambulations around the forest, I had often come across other walkers. In Britain, nine times out of ten, walkers crossing paths in a forest would greet each other with a cheery ‘morning’ or ‘afternoon’. In Denmark, I had found the opposite to be true, but here in Sweden it was really a 50/50 situation. On the one hand you could take the initiative and boldly say ‘hi’ only to be met with that steely Scandinavian look of horror that a stranger is trying to make contact with you, but on the other hand there was an equal chance that the other party would take the initiative just when you had decided it wasn’t worth making yourself look a fool. After a few days of this I had learned to settle for some brief eye contact, a quick head-nod and a short ‘hi’ at the ready on my lips should they greet me. It was best to hedge one’s bets.


But with the refugees it was a different matter. There was a barrier there; something protective was in place. I was interested in speaking to a few of them, curious to find out their stories. But it seemed that the newcomers inhabited a different world to the Swedes – a kind of parallel universe separated by a vacuum across which communication was difficult. Eventually, after wandering around the village in circles, I decided I had better find out what time the bus would come the next morning to take me back to Lund.


At the bus stop two men were talking animatedly in Arabic. They looked to be in their mid-twenties, one heavily muscular and with a crew cut, the other thin and bearded. I guessed they were friends. As I stood there studying the timetable the muscular one asked me if I had a light. He stood there with an unlit cigarette hanging from his lips and mimed striking a flint lighter with his thumb and clasped hand. I rummaged in my bag and found one, proffering it to him. He took it and lit his cigarette and then that of his friend, handing it back to me between hands pressed together as if in prayer. I asked them where they were from. “Syria”, he said.


“What do you think of it here?”, I asked, meaning Sweden.


“Good life”, he replied, inhaling the smoke. “Good people.”


It was a stupid question. I asked him another stupid question. “Why are you here?” He immediately said something to his friend, who it was clear did not understand English, and they both laughed. “Assad”, he said. He thought for a moment and added “War bring us here. When Assad gone, I go back, rebuild my house”. He turned back to his friend and they continued with their fast-paced conversation and I, having noted the time of the buses, left them to it.


 





 


Granted, it wasn’t much of an insight, but the thing that struck me the most was how deeply separated the hosts were from their refugee guests. And with the refugees being unable to work or better themselves, isn’t there a risk of them going stir crazy? Scandinavians love to talk of ‘integration’, but that would seem to be quite a tall order when such a barrier exists. In any case, I suspected, integration really means ‘forget who you are, be like us’.


 


Yet at the moment, despite all the media hysteria, it is just a trickle of refugees arriving. It’s a given that there will be more. Currently, like everything these days, their appearance is highly politicised. You’re either for them or against them. Currently, if one is a right-wing ‘realist’ you will talk about building walls and fences and dropping more bombs on the countries they are fleeing. Bombing is always offered as a solution to violence. On the other hand, if you’re a compassionate liberal you talk about opening up the borders, giving them all somewhere to live and allowing them to invite the remainder of their families over too. I suspect that this second point of view will sadly have a limited shelf life as things progress further down the road and people begin to grasp the sheer scale of the problem. 


 


And the rhetoric on both sides is rising, which is unfortunate if not entirely unpredictable. The unpalatable truth is that the Middle East and North Africa is becoming uninhabitable and not fit for human habitation. 100 years of oil exploitation, imperial plundering and ecological mismanagement has led us to here. In the case of Syria, as this article in The Ecologist points out, disastrous land management practices initiated in the 1960s turned most of the Syrian steppe into a dustbowl. Global weirding, in the form of droughts, followed by downpours and epic dust storms, destroyed much of the remaining topsoil. Millions of farmers and pastoralists were disenfranchised – ideal recruitment fodder for jihadist militias.


 


So a proxy war between Russia and the USA over control of the remaining energy resources was all that was needed to tip Syria into total chaos. The population is caught between their own crazy dictator dropping barrel bombs on them, and the murderous thugs of ISIS cutting and raping their way across what’s left of their country. Is it any wonder they want to get to Sweden?


 


The wider picture is no less unappealing. The age of oil that allowed for the greening of the desert is drawing to a close. Nitrogen fertiliser was first synthesised using fossil fuels after the last world war, meaning that vast swathes of desert could now be irrigated and used for growing crops. At the same time, selling their oil wealth has permitted countries such as Saudi Arabia to import massive amounts of food from the more fertile areas of the world, and to create a generous social security system for its people. Predictably, in light of this, the birth rate shot up, meaning there are now an order of magnitude more people living in these fragile desert regions than the ecology can support. As the oil crutch is kicked out we’ll find out the hard way that you can’t bargain with nature.  So it goes.


 


And so pretty soon we can expect hundreds of thousands more from Syria. Turkey currently puts up two million of them, but as other nations prevaricate and squabble, its patience is wearing thin. There are said to be twelve million Syrians displaced. And after Syria we have Afghanistan, Libya, Egypt, Yemen, Iraq and a few other places that we have meddled with. That’s not a political statement, it’s a simple fact. Where else will they go other than the smallish, wealthy and fertile western Eurasian appendage knows as Europe? There are 381 million people living in the arid regions fringing Europe, and it has the fastest-growing population of any of the planet’s major regions.


 


Last year I had a conversation with an historian who knows a thing or two about mass migrations. “It starts off as a trickle,” he said “but then, as things collapse, all of a sudden it turns into a flood. When you have entire nations full of people suddenly deciding to get up and leave, there is literally nothing anyone can do about it.”


 


“What about Europe?” I asked.


 


“Italy, Spain, Greece, France, a few other places … toast,” was his reply.


 


That’s the predicament we’re in. It won’t be pretty and our only guidance is compassion, not fear. The great change is already upon us.


Title: Exclusive: Refugee Tent Cities in Kos
Post by: RE on September 13, 2015, 02:04:32 AM


gc2smOff the keyboard of RE



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Published on the Doomstead Diner on September 13, 2015



http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/150813131952-10-kos-migrants-0810-super-169.jpg



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Where's Kos?  It's not a place too many folks on this side of the Pond are familiar with.



Kos is one of the plethora of Greek Islands sprinkled around the Greek mainland, which is part of the European Continent.  It's been part of Greece for at least 3 millenia, but it actually sits much closer to Turkey than continental Greece, where the capital of Athens is located..



http://www.kosisland.gr/images/stories/maps/1.jpg



http://www.progc.co.uk/property-abroad/kos-island/kos-map.gif



It's a place many Europeans are familiar with though, because like many of those islands, Kos has beautiful beaches and is a great spot for German touristas to spend their Euros.  Well, at least it used to be.



http://media.afar.com/uploads/images/post_images/images/LedC1fgy3n/post_display_cropped_open-uri20130623-29913-1ifq2rb?1383816767



http://newmedia.thomson.co.uk/live/vol/0/fbd9ec250f9bf48a8f674a0822797ef336c6c36d/1080x608/web/EUROPE__MEDITERRANEAN_GREECE_KOSDES000899_KOS_TOWNRES000907_ATLANTIS_HOTEL.JPG



The nightlife for the Tourista is also fabulous!  Retsina and Ouzo by the Amphora full!



http://www.kosrehberi.com/wp-content/uploads/kos-gece-hayati.jpg



Not only do they have gorgeous beaches for the touristas to frolic on, they also have Clasical Greek ruins you can take the kids to and get them excited about History and Western Civilization!  At least if mom & dad are not too hung over from the Ouzo and Retsina anyhow.



http://file2.answcdn.com/answ-cld/image/upload/w_760,c_fill,g_faces:center,q_60/v1400915207/s8yqpbcxeaavamy4phxa.jpg



Kos is even great for the Doomer Tourista!  You can charter a yacht for a week (captained or bareboat, depending on your sailing prowess) and imagine yourself a Sea Gypsy escaping doom in your trusty sailboat, living off Dates and Fish!



http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-iM-BSPNZ6tw/Tqqd-x8CC8I/AAAAAAAAAtY/vtGYW5_VTkw/s720/at%252520anchor.jpg



One small problem with all of these things these days in Kos, that is the proximity to Turkey.  Turkey is a main transit station for Syrian and Afghani Refugees seeking to make their way to the Promised Lands  of Germany & Sweden.  Unless they are positively loaded and can afford a Chartered Jet flying straight from Istanbul to Stockholm, they first gotta make it into Europe, and the shortest way with the least risk at the cheapest price  is via water transport into Greece.






Where's the closest and easiest Greek island to get to?  You guessed it, KOS!  It's so close any old rowboat or canoe can make this trip, about 2.5 miles.  Hell, good swimmers can swim that one, or you could paddle a surfboard or use a Windsurfer to make the crossing!



https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Wales_Windsurfer.jpg/640px-Wales_Windsurfer.jpg



Not that I really think most of the refugees are escaping on Windsurfers or Swimming it, I'm just demonstrating a point.  The boats they really do travel on are mostly old fishing boats of various sizes and capacities, or various categories of inflatables.  I'm not joking, this is an actual photo of refugees arriving at Kos in an Inflatable.



http://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1441076/kos-greece-island-refugees-migrants.jpg



They're Comin' to Kos in Greece!  They're Comin' to Kos in Greece!  TODAY!



OK, so now they are IN EUROPE! FREEDOM!  In principal anyhow.  Unfortunately, in physical miles and water miles and cash outlays to get to the mainland, they still have a long way to go, and once hitting Kos, they are kinda stuck there until they get Registered as a Refugee and get some kind of permission to move onward to the Promised Land of Germany, where they will all surely own Mercedes and drive the Autobahn at 100 Km/H!  Refugees have dreams too!



So what you have here is a classic Bottleneck situation, and the Refugees are stacking up in Kos, which is not so good for their regular Tourista Trade. It might not be too bad for the overall Kos economy though, as long as the recent arrivals come into shore with a bagful of Euros.



These folks can't spend those Euros TOO FAST though, because if they burn through what they have on Kos, they won't have spare Euros to buy passage on the next, hopefully bigger and somewhat sturdier boat that will bring them over to Athens for the next leg of the Journey.  So they are not wasting the precious Euros on luxury hotels on the scenic beaches.  Rather, they are setting up cheaper accommodations, TENTS.  A small city of tents already.



Recently, the Diner received Boots on the Ground footage from this week in Kos from our informant, Deep Kos.  Here's the latest from the streets of Kos:






Note: If you have Boots on the Ground Video or Pics from the front lines (Greece, Hungary, Italy et al) you wish to share with the world at large, CONTACT us on the Diner.  We have means and methods to get them up securely, with the best Hackers, Encryption Junkies and Code Jockies on the Net.  Do NOT upload or attach to emails prior to talking with us if your material is sensitive and you are concerned for your safety.  AKA, everything you put forth across the net or your cell phone can be tracked.  Always remember that fact of internet life.  It can be made DIFFICULT TO TRACK though, and we will make it as hard as possible for the Enemy.  CYPHER IS THE LAST FREEDOM.



Hopefully next time Deep Kos will video in Landscape instead of Portrait format.  LOL.



More from Deep Kos:




Things are taking a turn for the worse in the homeland… :-[. Golden Dawn (GD) is currying support from desperate islanders who are in fear of being overrun by waves of refugees.



"The issue of illegal migrants is becoming critical & is reaching a fateful crossroads, says GD member"

"The situation here on Kos is unbelievable says the member. The government is doing nothing, just managing PR."

"Save us, plead Kos locals."

"Vote for Us (Golden Dawn) and we'll Send in the Army to deal With this Riff-Raff."

"Otherwise, Greece will become Pakistan, says member."



Video link: http://bit.ly/1MLXKoG

Video translation, courtesy of me…



Numbers are around 7000 at present. Most of the late arrivals have been Syrian. They are particularly well to do as they can afford luxury hotel accomodation whilst awaiting processing by Greek authorities. The ferry boat that was relocating them to the mainland, the Venizelos, hasn't been seen for some time though, so unsure what that will mean for the  Syrians, although they do receive priority passage. The other refugees are roughing it in awful conditions mainly near the Police station and on along the foreshore, none have ventured out towards the villages. Business in town is dreadful, despite the hotel bookings as both locals and tourists alike are shunning the zone. Aid is being distributed by a Greek agency akin to UNICEF…




Anyhow, at least so far these vids look reasonably peaceful, and it actually does not look that much different than the early days of Occupy Wall Street.



http://www.3quarksdaily.com/.a/6a00d8341c562c53ef0154387ca0fb970c-800wi



OK, the weather was chillier in Zucchini Park in November, but otherwise quite similar.



While it remains peaceful for now, one suspects that the locals in Kos will get tired of all the tents and migrants cruising in pretty quickly.  No doubt laws will be passed regarding setting up tents on the street.  Then of course they have to enforce those laws, in the case of Occupy, the NYPD got the job of this.



https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/luisjrodriguez/pages/351/attachments/original/1412788138/ows_nov15_3.jpg?1412788138http://animalnewyork.com/wp-content/uploads/mynypd-nationwide-600x337.jpg



Sadly for Kos though, unlike NY Shity, they don't have a Standing Army of 35,000 Thugs to Protect & Defend the Rights of Wall Street Pigmen to Loot the World.  If Kos has a police force of 100 I would be surprised.  This of course is no match for the 1000s of refugees rolling in there each week.



So at some point they bring in the Army on this, and Deep Kos has mentioned that they have Army Bases on the Island equipped with Tanks and other essential crowd control hardware.



http://infossible.com/infosdata/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Infossible_Egyptian-billionaire-buy-an-island1-700x442.jpgAll this does not bode well for the Tourista trade though, nor for the local residents either, who would be well advised at this point to GTFO of Kos!  Sell the island to the Eyptian Wannabee Pharoah, split the cash amongst the current resident, take the money and RUN!  Run Away!  Run Away FAST!  RUN AWAY NOW!



As long as Kos remains a part of Greece and then by extension part of Europe, it's going to be a Magnet for every refugee trying to GTFO of the War Zones and climate ravaged countries of MENA.  There is no way to stop the flow short of mining all the waters, which will not be conducive to running a yacht charter biz there.



One small problem for Pharoah, the current infrastructure on the island houses a population of around 30.000.  After they leave, he's gonna have a heck of a time doing upgrades to squeeze even the current 100K on the move in there.  For the 30,000 current residents of Kos though, it's a great deal.  If they sell him the island for $1B, they'll each get $33.3K, plenty of money to get to Germany or Sweden and make a new start!  Plus they already have papers!  It's Win-Win for everybody! Refugees get a new home, Kosians get out of harms way! Well, except Pharoah, who will have to keep bleeding his account building more infraastructure as the population swells.



At some point here, the countries in Europe who are being shamed into accepting refugees will stop accepting more of them.  The pool of potential refugees as we move forward here is simply too large.  At some point there will be a backlash, and when that occurs Kos is not a place you want to be, whether you are Resident, Tourista or Refugee.



If you can, GTFO of Kos.



TODAY.




Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread --- Germany Closes Their Border
Post by: Eddie on September 13, 2015, 03:59:09 PM
Looks like it might get ugly sooner rather than later...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3232744/We-t-German-authorities-call-urgent-action-migrant-crisis-locals-say-Munich-brink-humanitarian-disaster.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3232744/We-t-German-authorities-call-urgent-action-migrant-crisis-locals-say-Munich-brink-humanitarian-disaster.html)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread ---US to Accept 10,000 Syrian Refugees
Post by: Eddie on September 13, 2015, 04:51:19 PM
Can you say "token response"?

I'm sure Europe is cheering us on, so grateful that we are absorbing two days worth of their migrant problem this next year.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-13/10000-syrians-are-headed-following-180-us-refugee-processing-centers (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-13/10000-syrians-are-headed-following-180-us-refugee-processing-centers)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on September 13, 2015, 06:34:41 PM
I can't quite see how that was "a fucking nightmare".  The laid-back Greek authorities could surely find a park or two for them to camp in, and I'm sure they would move to it rather than camping next to all that traffic.  And the authorities could process their applications quicker too - how long does it take to hand out a form and then stamp it?  How about organising some ferries to the mainland and buses to help them on their way?

And it seems even the ones with money staying in luxury hotels are doing the wrong thing too.  What were they supposed to do - leave their money behind like true refugees?
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Mercury on September 13, 2015, 07:58:33 PM
I can't quite see how that was "a fucking nightmare".  The laid-back Greek authorities could surely find a park or two for them to camp in, and I'm sure they would move to it rather than camping next to all that traffic.  And the authorities could process their applications quicker too - how long does it take to hand out a form and then stamp it?  How about organising some ferries to the mainland and buses to help them on their way?

And it seems even the ones with money staying in luxury hotels are doing the wrong thing too.  What were they supposed to do - leave their money behind like true refugees?

It is a fucking nightmare if you happen to live there. If your country is an EU colony that's broke, that's being run by and for cretins and other self-serving ratbags. Hey, but if you're an Americanoid with a firm clasp on the imperial teat it's easy to be holier than the thou I guess.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on September 13, 2015, 09:17:51 PM
There are plenty of tent cities in the US, but it is easy for everyone to ignore them.

(http://static01.nyt.com/images/2009/03/25/us/26sacramento2_600.JPG)

An encampment of tents under an overpass in Fresno.
Credit Jim Wilson/The New York Times


If the comment had been "the fucking government should help them" I could have understood, but to blame the refugees for their plight seems harsh.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread ---US to Accept 10,000 Syrian Refugees
Post by: RE on September 13, 2015, 09:25:40 PM
Can you say "token response"?

I'm sure Europe is cheering us on, so grateful that we are absorbing two days worth of their migrant problem this next year.

I read that currently, there are 2 MILLION Refugees in Turkey.

RE
Title: Germany Shuts the Door
Post by: RE on September 13, 2015, 10:10:00 PM
Now we'll get to see how well that whole Fence idea works.  ::)

This really is picking up speed.  It's going to get violent PDQ.

The Krauts need to hire 300 Spartans.

http://www.youtube.com/v/HdNn5TZu6R8

RE

Refugee crisis: Germany reinstates controls at Austrian border (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/13/germany-to-close-borders-exit-schengen-emergency-measures)

Train traffic from Austria halted as EU prepares for refugee showdown in Brussels on Monday

Police say Munich is ‘at its limit’ as thousands of refugees arrive

Luke Harding in Berlin

Sunday 13 September 2015 13.13 EDT
Last modified on Sunday 13 September 2015 20.05 EDT

Germany introduced border controls on Sunday, and dramatically halted all train traffic with Austria, after the country’s regions said they could no longer cope with the overwhelming number of refugees entering the country.

Interior minister, Thomas de Maizière, announced the measures after German officials said record numbers of refugees, most of them from Syria, had stretched the system to breaking point. “This step has become necessary,” he told a press conference in Berlin, adding it would cause disruption.

Asylum seekers must understand “they cannot chose the states where they are seeking protection,” he told reporters.

All trains between Austria and Bavaria, the principal conduit through which 450,000 refugees have arrived in Germany this year, ceased at 5pm Berlin time. Only EU citizens and others with valid documents would be allowed to pass through Germany’s borders, de Maizière said.
How do I offer a room to a refugee?
Read more

The decision means that Germany has effectively exited temporarily from the Schengen system. It is likely to lead to chaotic scenes on the Austrian-German border, as tens of thousands of refugees try to enter Germany by any means possible and set up camp next to it.

German police began patrolling road crossing points with Austria at 5.30pm on Sunday. These checks may be rolled out to the borders with Poland and the Czech Republic. Chancellor Angela Merkel agreed the details in a conference call on Saturday with her Social Democrat coalition partners. The Czech Republic said separately that it would boost controls on its border with Austria.

The emergency measures are designed to give respite to Germany’s federal states who are responsible for looking after refugees. There is also discussion inside the government about sending troops to the road and rail borders with Austria to reinforce security, Der Spiegel reported.
Refugees are escorted by officials at the main railway station in Munich.
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Refugees are escorted by officials at the main railway station in Munich. Photograph: Michaela Rehle/Reuters

The move comes amid extraordinary scenes at Munich’s main train station over the weekend and a growing backlash inside Germany over the decision last week by Merkel, to allow unregistered refugees to enter the country. The numbers exceeded all expectations.

On Saturday, 13,015 refugees arrived at the station on trains from Austria. Another 1,400 came on Sunday morning. The city’s mayor, Dieter Reiter, said Munich was “full”, with its capacities completely exhausted. Some refugees slept on the station concourse on Saturday night.

Germany’s stunning ad hoc move sets the stage for a bitter showdown on Monday at a meeting of EU interior ministers in Brussels. Hungary’s president Viktor Orbán welcomed the decision and said it would protect “German and European values”. He and other east European leaders are insisting they will not accept a plan set out last week by the European commission chief Jean-Claude Juncker for mandatory refugee quotas.

De Maizière said Germany had reintroduced border controls for reasons of security but added pointedly that they were also “a signal to Europe”. Germany, Austria and France support Juncker’s proposal which would see 160,000 asylum seekers shared out across all 28 EU states. The refugees would be allocated to each country on the basis of its size and wealth.
Analysis How much longer can Germany keep its doors open to refugees?
The country responded generously as Angela Merkel threw open the borders, but as 1,000 people a day arrive in the capital alone some doubts are being voiced
Read more

There has been implacable opposition from other EU states including Hungary, Slovakia, the Czech Republic, Poland and Romania. On Sunday, the Czech prime minister, Bohuslav Sobotka, said: “I think it is impossible to retreat. Our position is firm.”

Previously Orbán has blamed Berlin for the crisis, and Merkel’s decision to open Germany’s borders. Budapest is racing to complete a fence on its border with Serbia, where 4,330 people crossed on Saturday. On Tuesday, it introduces tough laws which make crossing the border punishable with jail.

“These migrants are not coming our way from war zones but from camps in Syria’s neighbours. So these people are not fleeing danger and don’t need to be scared for their lives,” Orbán told Germany’s Bild newspaper. European leaders were “living in a dream world”.

Orbán’s hardline populist stance has exasperated his neighbours. Austria’s chancellor, Werner Faymann, said Hungary’s harsh treatment of refugees was reminiscent of the second world war. “Piling refugees on trains in the hopes that they go far, far away brings back memories of the darkest period of our continent,” he told Der Spiegel.
Refugees sleep on the ground next to closed ticket counters in Munich.
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Refugees sleep on the ground next to closed ticket counters in Munich. Photograph: Nicolas Armer/AP

Faymann suggested that if no consensus was reached on Monday in Brussels, Germany and its allies could try to force through a vote on quotas with a qualified majority.
'There have to be limits': mixed feelings from Germans over refugees
Read more

He said Austria and Germany – both net contributors to the EU budget – would consider sanctions against countries stubbornly refusing to share the refugee burden. This might include axing some EU structural funds from which “east European states profit most of all”.
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As well as quotas, Juncker’s proposal includes establishing hotspots at EU frontiers, including Greece and Italy, where refugees can be registered under a unitary system.

The UN’s refugee agency, the UNHCR, called on the EU to avoid fragmenting into a patchwork of countries with different border rules, which would plunge thousands of refugees into “legal limbo”. Decisions by a meeting of EU interior ministers on Monday would be “even more critical”, the agency said.

Greek authorities said on Sunday that 28 people drowned, half of them children, when their wooden smuggling boat capsized in the Aegean sea. The incident happened before dawn off the Greek island of Farmakonisi. The Greek coastguard pulled 68 people out of the water. Another 30 managed to swim to land.

Germany’s federal regions, meanwhile, have said that they are struggling to cope with an unprecedented human influx. Berlin’s city government has commandeered two sports halls next to the Olympic stadium to house new arrivals. It is considering making use of a velodrome, empty hangars in a trade fair building and the Tempelhof airport.

The CSU, the Bavarian sister party to Merkel’s Christian Democrat CDU, has accused the chancellor of making an “unparalleled historical mistake” in opening Germany’s borders. On Sunday, Christoph Hillenband, the president of Upper Bavaria, said the system for dealing with refugees was close to collapse, with 63,000 people arriving in Munich since late August.

Dedicated trains were now taking refugees north to other parts of Germany, with regular passengers shunted on to alternative services. “It’s not feasible for us to take in the equivalent of a small town’s population every day. It’s simply not doable logistically any more,” Hillenbrand said.
Recently arrived refugees at the main station in Munich.
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Recently arrived refugees at the main station in Munich. Photograph: Sven Hoppe/EPA

Mustafa Alomar, a refugee from Manbej, near Aleppo in Syria, said he had sympathy with Europeans who said the refugee crisis was not their problem, but added: “If you stay in Syria you will be killed. That’s true regardless of whether you are poor, middle class or rich.”

Alomar, a former student of English literature at Aleppo University, is living at a refugee hostel in Berlin, while his familyis in a camp in Syria near the Turkish border. He said three of his friends drowned after their boat from Libya to Italy sank. He was the only one who survived.

“We are not angels or Satan. We are simply human beings,” he said.
Title: Refugees Grateful To See Europe While Being Bounced From Country To Country
Post by: RE on September 13, 2015, 10:36:50 PM
More from The Onion

RE

Refugees Grateful For Chance To See Europe While Being Bounced From Country To Country (http://www.theonion.com/article/refugees-grateful-chance-see-europe-while-being-bo-51267)

(http://i.onionstatic.com/onion/5125/8/16x9/800.jpg)

BUDAPEST, HUNGARY—Saying they never dreamed they’d have the opportunity to do so much traveling and sightseeing, tens of thousands of refugees across Europe confirmed Tuesday that they were grateful for the chance to take in so many of the continent’s natural and historical treasures while being bounced from country to country. “I thought the Serbian countryside was so beautiful when we were marching through it, but, wow, Budapest is truly breathtaking—it’s a real architectural gem—and hopefully once our papers expire in 48 hours we’ll be off to somewhere new!” said Syrian refugee Majd Ahsan, who added that his European trip got off to a great start on the island of Lesbos in Greece, where he said he was really able to soak in the Mediterranean landscape by spending his every waking and sleeping moment outdoors. “We actually got to spend a couple extra days in Athens while the Macedonian borders were closed, which was a real treat—there’s just so much rich history right there! At this point, who knows which country we’ll see tomorrow or the next day. Germany? France? Ooh, maybe we’ll go to Prague, get turned away at a processing center, and be sent to Poland! I hear it’s really lovely.” Ahsan added that he was just sad that two of his four children and both of his brothers were no longer around to enjoy the tour of Europe with him.

Title: The Zombie Patrix Apocalypse
Post by: Guest on September 14, 2015, 02:05:53 AM


gc2smOff the keyboard of Albert Bates



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Published on Peak Surfer on September 13, 2015



 



PeakSurfer



Discuss this article at the Geopolitics Table inside the Diner



TAKE THE REFUGEE SURVEY HERE



"“We recapitulate the conditions that create our fears, subconsciously wanting to relieve the original stress, but then we make the same bad choices, because of our conditioning, and so it goes, we have to do it again.”"

 




161: the number of countries in which environmental disasters, most of them due to weather-related events, have caused mass displacement of people since 2008.

27 million: the average number of people displaced by environmental disasters each year between 2008 and 2013.

350,000: migrants seeking entry into the EU in 2014.



200 million: likely migrant number seeking entry into the EU when the full impact of climate change is felt.



The Independent (London) 12 Sep 2015




 













(c) Marko Djurica/Reuters


Masses of young men in their twenties with beards singing Allahu Akbar across Europe. It’s an invasion that threatens our prosperity, our security, our culture and identity, far-right Dutch leader Geert Wilders said this week. As the EU parliamentary council was debating how to react to the refugee crisis and scaling up its quotas, Wilders called the wave of refugees an Islamic invasion of Europe.” 

 

Up to 800,000 asylum seekers are set to be taken in by Germany by the end of the year. At the same time, Hungarian prisoners were rushed to the Serbian border to construct a massive fence, three meters high and topped with razor wire, to stop refugees from crawling over the previous, lower border fence. Shades of World War Z.

 















Buchenwald Gate: "To Each His Own."

 


Dramatic footage from television in Europe shows people at Hungary's main refugee camp being fed like wild animals. Crowds of men, women and children struggle to catch bread thrown out from trucks. RT-TV called it "Hungary's Guantanamo." Meanwhile, refugees who made it into Germany earlier in the year are being housed in the barracks of the former Nazi concentration camp Buchenwald, near Weimar.



 




On the opposite side of the country, Austria halted train service with Hungary due to 'massive overburdening.' Train services between Denmark and Germany were stopped by the state owned train operator, DSB, because of exceptionally tedious passport checks at the border. In southern Denmark, police shut off a section of highway to stop a march of a large group of migrants chanting "Sweden, Sweden," the Associated Press reported September 9th. Just to the east that day, some 300 refugees, including children, were seen entering Denmark on foot from Germany.



European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker said on Wednesday that since the beginning of 2015 about 500,000 people had come to Europe, mainly Syrians and Libyans. Half are children. He urged EU member states to "compulsorily" accept 160,000 migrants to residency within the EU over the next two years. Talk about band-aid approaches. 

 

Since 2012 more than 6.5 million Syrians have been displaced from their homes — 40% of the country's population. They joined 5 million Palestinians already in exile, and equal numbers of Afghans and Somalis. Last year 435,000 people asked for asylum in the EU and 136,000 were awarded it. The rest were deported or went underground.



Today we have a different category of refugees, they are not desperate, starving, poor and unemployed people. No, they are mostly people with average income who primarily seek peace. They need conditions for work and education and European governments must apply effort to this,” the head of Russia’s Federal Migration Service told journalists. 

 



In 2013 and 2014, over one million people fled into Russia from southeast Ukraine after the US and its NATO allies engineered the overthrow of government, installed a puppet regime and threw the country into civil war and chaos. As the armed conflict over eastern cities subsided, about 600,000 Ukrainians decided never to return home. Of this number 114,000 took part in the Russian program of resettlement and received material aid and a short track to citizenship.


 


In mid-June this year the UN High Commissioner for Refugees said that in 2014 the influx of Ukrainian citizens seeking refuge put the Russian Federation in first place in the world by number of asylum applications.


 


In 2013 the number of people who fled their homes across the globe went over 50 million for the first time since World War II, a new UN report says.  Amnesty International blamed the UN for ineffective or delayed responses, but the UN is understaffed and underfunded and can do little more than issue warnings to belligerents that yet more refugees will be produced for every bomb they drop. 

 

You know, there are 805 million food-insecure people in the world, and we only reach between 80-100 million of them on an annual basis,” Ertharin Cousin, the chief of the UN World Food Programme, told reporters. In total, there were 51.2 million refugees and 33.3 million internally displaced people registered by the UN in 2013. Another 32,200 flee their homes every day. Whenever she is meeting with Obama or Putin, she said, she cannot bring up politics — it would be a waste of her time — she can only attempt to bring to their attention the need for more aid.



 


US Secretary of State John Kerry said, “You think migration is a challenge in Europe today because of extremism, wait until you see what happens when there's an absence of water, an absence of food, or one tribe fighting against another for mere survival." 


 


We may not need to wait long

 

"Syria was destabilized by 1.5 million migrants from rural communities fleeing a three-year drought that was made more intense and persistent by human-driven climate change, which is steadily making the whole eastern Mediterranean and Middle East region even more arid," says Richard Seager of Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory of Columbia University, who published a report in March on the role of climate change in the Syrian conflict.

 




"Syria is not the only country affected by this drying. Lebanon, Jordan, Israel, Iraq and Iran are too. However the various social, religious and ethnic wars play out, in the coming years and decades the region will feel the stress of declining water resources."






Seager has also studied the Southwestern United States and what the future holds for that region. Drawing upon nineteen different climate modeling groups around the world, Seager and his colleagues concluded that the California drought is only the start of a new regime. “In the Southwest the levels of aridity seen in the 1950s multiyear drought, or the 1930s Dust Bowl, become the new climatology by mid-century,” they reported.



 



A recent study from the group, Organising to Advance Solutions in the Sahel, suggested that over the next three to four decades up to 200 million Africans are likely to be without sustainable food supplies. This assumes temperatures in the Horn of Africa and Levant rise only 5°C by 2050 and that population continues to grow from about 100 million now, to 300 million in 2050.


 


"It would be totally implausible to sustainably accommodate this scale of growth," said the report. 



"Without immediate, large-scale action, death rates from food shortages will rise as crops wither and livestock die, and the largest involuntary migration in history could occur."



 


The Patrix

 




“We recapitulate the conditions that create our fears, subconsciously wanting to relieve the original stress, but then we make the same bad choices, because of our conditioning, and so it goes, we have to do it again.”



Andy Langford is explaining The Patrix, his term for our cultural prison. He confesses to being middle class white anglo-saxon male, which means he was born to a certain degree of privilege, although just one generation away from mineworkers and growing up in Devonshire, and has often been back on the endless, deceptive treadmill, required of his social class, to advance out of poverty.


 


He gives the example of when he was a cigarette smoker and he would find himself wanting to quit but giving into another fag, then realizing he was breaking his vow, thinking of himself as a bad person, a chronic loser, and weak-willed. He mimics the slumped shoulders of a great weight bearing down on him as he lowers his self-esteem. 


 


“It's the oops moment,” he says, “that has the real power.” It is the point at which you have the first recognition that you are failing, that moment of cogent observation, that is the point at which there is an opportunity for intervention and change. Stub out the cigarette before you take a last drag, or descend into the downward cycle of internalizing your addiction with rationalizations and sublimations. The choice is there. What do you do in that moment?


 


We are in the Gaia University tent at the 2015 International Permaculture Convergence in England, and Andy is explaining his theory of The Patrix to a couple dozen permaculturists who want to know how it relates to climate change.


 


“We are very sensitive to being hurt,” he explains. Hurt can be emotional or physical but we are taught as children to put aside the pain and buck up, tough it out, stop wingeing, and grow up. So instead of healing the emotional pain on the spot by nurture, weeping, commiseration and other therapies, we internalize the pain and it festers. “It becomes a veil of distress, which later leads us to perverted behavior, such as requiring our children to fall into the same pattern, or institutionalizing it.” Our society becomes shaped, not by logic but by self-oppression. We take out our unhealed hurts on others. 


 


Thus the horrors of WWI lead to WWII, which leads to the Cold War, Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Operation Desert Shield, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, etc. 


 


Andy says that climate change is, in a warped sort of way, the echo of our collective near-extinction experiences following supervolcanoes and meteor impacts. Some part of us still recalls that pain, and so wishes to recreate similar crises in hopes of healing our deep hurt from before. We have known for a hundred years what we are doing to the atmosphere. We have known since Malthus the inexorable math of population growth. We have known since at least the Club of Rome report in 1971 about the limits to natural resources and insufficient capacity of the planet to absorb our wastes. We ignore our knowledge — we become ignorant — in order to draw ourselves closer to another apocalypse.


 


We are fascinated with zombies. Scenes of mass-migrations rivet our attention.


 


He reckons that if we were willing, we could probably reverse 80% of this embedded hurt in twenty years. It would take a lot of re-evaluation counseling, and permaculture has a role to play. He invites people to contact him — patrix@gaiauniversity.org — if they'd like to join this discussion. Generally speaking, we aren't moving in that direction at present, and so the climate crisis simply grinds away like compound interest on our damaged psyches.


 


And somewhere on the road to Sweden, another Syrian child whose feet ache and belly growls starts to cry and is told to be brave, to stop crying, to hold it in and move along.

Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Surly1 on September 14, 2015, 03:07:38 AM
There are plenty of tent cities in the US, but it is easy for everyone to ignore them.

(http://static01.nyt.com/images/2009/03/25/us/26sacramento2_600.JPG)

An encampment of tents under an overpass in Fresno.
Credit Jim Wilson/The New York Times


If the comment had been "the fucking government should help them" I could have understood, but to blame the refugees for their plight seems harsh.

Blaming the refugees for their plight is only the beginning.

Paul Joseph Watson, dependable propagandist for the right wing nativist libertarian state about to be ushered in by President Trump, goes one or two better. This video an example of his oeuvre:

http://www.youtube.com/v/ZV315xqbRK8
Title: Syrian Refugees Housed at BUCHENWALD!
Post by: RE on September 14, 2015, 03:20:53 AM
Deja Vu All Over Again.

Fire up the Furnaces.

RE

http://www.rt.com/news/315168-buchenwald-refugees-housed-germany/ (http://www.rt.com/news/315168-buchenwald-refugees-housed-germany/)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on September 14, 2015, 03:42:52 AM
There are plenty of tent cities in the US, but it is easy for everyone to ignore them.

(http://static01.nyt.com/images/2009/03/25/us/26sacramento2_600.JPG)

An encampment of tents under an overpass in Fresno.
Credit Jim Wilson/The New York Times


If the comment had been "the fucking government should help them" I could have understood, but to blame the refugees for their plight seems harsh.

Blaming the refusgges for their plight is only the beginning.

Paul Joseph Watson, dependable propagandist for the right wing nativist libertarian state about to be ushered in by President Trump, goes one or two better. This video an example of his oeuvre:

http://www.youtube.com/v/ZV315xqbRK8

There are people who blame them for their plight but neither mercury or pjw did that.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Surly1 on September 14, 2015, 03:54:39 AM
There are people who blame them for their plight but neither mercury or pjw did that.

You are wrong. Or failed to even view the video.
I said Nothing about Mercury; but pjw does EXACTLY that.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on September 14, 2015, 05:08:32 AM
There are people who blame them for their plight but neither mercury or pjw did that.

You are wrong. Or failed to even view the video.
I said Nothing about Mercury; but pjw does EXACTLY that.

Palloy charges mercury with blaming the refugees for their plight. By saying that is just the beginning you acknowledge and accept that.

Pjw only demonstrates that there is some bad behavior by refugees and asks why this is not covered by the msm. I have no sympathy for the camerawoman who was kicking children and tripped the man carrying the boy featured in stories above in this thread and she deserves her worldwide infamy.

 It is a legitimate question to wonder why the media would not only name her and report the story but also track down the victims and interview them,  but not show any of the antisocial behavior engaged in by some refugees.

Pjw shows a picture of people being handled on the railway tracks by police which was apparently a story,  and showed that in fact a man had thrown a woman and child from the platform to the tracks and lay on them himself. This was endangering everyones lives his own,  his families and the  police from being run over by the next train. Yet this was left out in the same way the sites you draw from left out in the full pjw video him talking about our interventions in MENA creating the refugees. That is blaming the western war machine for their plight.

Also info wars is apolitical it is not right wing. It looks at conspiracy theories and one possible explanation an exception was made to the usual rule to never show dead children as well as to not show any negative  behavior engaged in by refugees is the threat of far right political parties which are anti immigration taking power as these are on the rise across europe.

 Reporting on refugees behaving badly would fuel support for the far right parties, while showing the dead child resulted in a wave of sympathy for allowing refugees safe passage. Once they are fully naturalised are expected to vote to the left and shore up support for the generally socialist parties In power, preventing eg marine le pen, golden dawn and ukip taking power and breaking up the eu.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on September 14, 2015, 05:33:44 AM
JL got the REFUGEE RANT up on GEI.  :icon_sunny:

http://econintersect.com/b2evolution/blog2.php/2015/09/14/rant-regarding-refugee-relief (http://econintersect.com/b2evolution/blog2.php/2015/09/14/rant-regarding-refugee-relief)

Also, the collapse.global Logo is top center on the homepage right now!  Good page hits should come from this!  :)

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on September 14, 2015, 07:02:57 AM
Quote
UB: Palloy charges mercury with blaming the refugees for their plight. By saying that is just the beginning you acknowledge and accept that.

Actually I was blaming the person making the commentary on the video. I don't know who that was.
I don't understand your second sentence, which seems to be a common problem I have with your writing, UB.  Could you perhaps take the time to proof-read what you write before posting?
Title: Re: Syrian Refugees Housed at BUCHENWALD!
Post by: luciddreams on September 14, 2015, 07:04:42 AM
Deja Vu All Over Again.

Fire up the Furnaces.

RE

http://www.rt.com/news/315168-buchenwald-refugees-housed-germany/ (http://www.rt.com/news/315168-buchenwald-refugees-housed-germany/)

Housing refugees in an old concentration camp is unfortunate, but I suppose understandable.  It's not a concentration camp now, and while it may appear to be insensitive what are they to do?  Is the German government to build new dormitories for the refugees?  I suppose the refugees have the option to refuse to stay, but I doubt that will be the case. 

Also, as to the bad behavior of refugees, yeah!!!  WTF do you expect?  As Bob Marely said "A hangry mob is an angry mob."  Of course they are going to act out and bite whatever charity comes their way.  I'm sure to be a refugee is to deal with a lot of internal anger at your plight.  "Dem belly full but we hungry, a hangry mob is an angry mob." 

You can't blame the refugees or the people of the lands where the refugees arrive.  Both parties have legitimate complaints and grievances.  This is what collapse looks like.  Too many people with climate change and endless global petrol wars in a collapsing global economy results in millions of refugees.  More refugees are to come.  Next will be the internal refugees from our own parched South West.  Think of that for a minute.  They will be citizens of the country they are a refugee in.  "Go back to Arizona you desert rat," "get your queer ass back to California," "go back to your casinos."  What are we going to say then?  Are we going to say it's their fault that the water dried up? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIq7RvStNB0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIq7RvStNB0)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on September 14, 2015, 07:39:50 AM
"Grapes of Wrath" springs to mind.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: g on September 14, 2015, 07:44:01 AM
"Grapes of Wrath" springs to mind.

If you are alluding to the Steinbeck classic, it was quite a book. Fiction at times can be more revealing than History, it would seem Palloy.
Title: Re: Syrian Refugees Housed at BUCHENWALD!
Post by: RE on September 14, 2015, 01:46:23 PM
Housing refugees in an old concentration camp is unfortunate, but I suppose understandable.  It's not a concentration camp now, and while it may appear to be insensitive what are they to do?  Is the German government to build new dormitories for the refugees?  I suppose the refugees have the option to refuse to stay, but I doubt that will be the case. 


It's not a Concentration Camp now?  That is PRECISELY what it is.  The Refugees are being concentrated into this location.  Only a few right now, but unless they stem the tide, the number will grow.  When that number fills all the barracks, then what do you do?  You know what the Germans did before at Buchenwald, right?  The FINAL SOLUTION.

(http://traveladdictsnet.c.presscdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Germany-Weimar-Buchenwald-Concentration-Camp-Crematory-1.jpg)

Anything is better than Buchenwald.  Tent Cities on the Rhine River, whatever.  Buchenwald is sending a message, and that message is that they'll do it again.

RE
Title: Refugee Rant on GEI
Post by: RE on September 14, 2015, 03:06:24 PM
John Lounsbury is the GREATEST!

Homepage Banner of GEI through this morning.  :icon_sunny:

GEI HomePage
GEI HomePage

The collapse.global (http://collapse.global) Logo is now OUT THERE!

I am going to start cross-posting Diner articles to collapse.global.

I think I can grow this franchise bigger than the Diner.  It has the veneer of respectability, not so Gonzo.

Although, the Diner is not doing too bad these days, floating at a 70K Handle on Alexa.  I really wanna get down to the 50s though.

RE
Title: Kos Article to go up on Global Economic Intersection
Post by: RE on September 14, 2015, 04:58:08 PM
John Lounsbury is going to publish the Kos article on GEI as well.

We are on a roll now!  :icon_sunny:

RE
Title: Moving Forward and Making Changes
Post by: RE on September 14, 2015, 06:01:34 PM
John Lounsbury is going to publish the Kos article on GEI as well.

We are on a roll now!  :icon_sunny:

RE

I wonder where we would be at now had I started this site as collapse.global in the first place?

I think now it definitely restricted growth to go with the Doomstead Diner Gonzo title.

Ah well, live and learn.  I don't regret it.  Not even sure the .global domain was available when we started anyhow.  I honored my history on Peak Oil with the Doomstead Diner name.

We are moving on and changing now Diners, I am focusing on building the collapse.global franchise.

The Diner will continue onward, but collapse.global is the future.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on September 14, 2015, 06:16:43 PM
But would a Diner, by any other name, bring us the Doomer nutritional daily requirement..or have such a smelly dumpster....
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: luciddreams on September 15, 2015, 05:50:21 PM
But would a Diner, by any other name, bring us the Doomer nutritional daily requirement..or have such a smelly dumpster....

lol, there are pictures of Harper/GM's placenta on this bitch somewhere.  Which, said placenta is beneath a now one year old Georgia Belle peach tree that's about 12 feet tall.  It towers over the may gold and june gold that were transplanted the same day. 
Title: Refugee Blues
Post by: RE on September 15, 2015, 06:03:08 PM
(http://www.greanvillepost.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/refugees-baby-Europe-Appeal_banner.jpg)

http://www.greanvillepost.com/2015/09/14/%E2%80%A2-refugee-blues/ (http://www.greanvillepost.com/2015/09/14/%E2%80%A2-refugee-blues/)
Title: Re: Refugee Blues
Post by: luciddreams on September 15, 2015, 08:11:02 PM
(http://www.greanvillepost.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/refugees-baby-Europe-Appeal_banner.jpg)

http://www.greanvillepost.com/2015/09/14/%E2%80%A2-refugee-blues/ (http://www.greanvillepost.com/2015/09/14/%E2%80%A2-refugee-blues/)

I read the link to the article.  I'd like to say that I'm not responsible for this mess.  I live in America, and I'm fortunate for that.  But I'm not responsible for these refugees.  I voted once in my life for Ron Paul in 2008.  I haven't voted before or since.  I haven't voted because they don't count my vote.  They do what the want, and what they want is what we've got in terms of this refugee crisis.  Unfortunately, being American, I'm going to get lumped into the root cause of this catastrophe.

I'm going to be hated by most of the world because I somehow caused this.  I didn't cause it.  I'm not taking responsibility for it.  It's not my doing, it's not my fault, and I don't owe an apology.  This is military industrial petroleum machine over reach paying us back in heavy collateral damage dividends.   

I'm a U.S. Navy veteran of Operation Enduring Freedom, and I endorse my above message whole heatedly.   
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on September 16, 2015, 10:08:08 PM
Europe is going to be overrun.

RE

This map shows the routes of Europe's refugee nightmare — and how it's getting worse (http://www.businessinsider.com/map-of-europe-refugee-crisis-2015-9)

(http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/55f2f958bd86ef1c008b9ab9-1200-1681/bi_graphics_europe's%20refugee%20crisis%20(1).png)

More than 150,000 refugees entered the European Union in August, increasing the total to more than half a million for the year, the European Union border agency announced.
Title: Fortress Europe: Tear Gas on the Hungarian Border
Post by: RE on September 17, 2015, 09:12:30 PM
Fortress Europe: Tear Gas on the Hungarian Border (http://www.globalresearch.ca/fortress-europe-tear-gas-on-the-hungarian-border/5476570)

(http://www.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Flag_of_Hungary-400x200.jpg)
Novi Sad, Serbia. Like water, the refugee flow is finding a way to detect any imaginable breach across the borders of Europe. One is Romania, though it is plagued by poor road connections and a Hungarian promise to reinforce its part of the border with razor wire.

Another has opened up via Croatia, which has brought into play concerns about uncleared minefields from the 1991-5 war. A spike in the number of arrivals was registered from 3am on Thursday, and after six hours, a total of 5,650 migrants had made their way through. Croatia’s Prime Minister Zoran Milanović has claimed that free passage will be allowed through the state’s territory. To a large extent, however, the gesture is not one of humanity but facility. “They do not want to come to Croatia or Hungary either and that is why I do not understand where is the problem of letting them pass through that country.”

Not that other countries, even affluent ones of final destination, are necessarily that open to the suggestion. Europe’s squabbling and variation on the issue refugee transit and resettlement is proving eviscerating. Britain’s Home Secretary, Theresa May, typified that front with a statement made before the Commons: “Claiming asylum must not be viewed as an easy means of resettlement in Europe.” As if to confirm the point, the Cameron government is deploying a warship to the Mediterranean in an effort to strike the smuggling of people into Europe.

What this week reads like is a train wreck in refugee politics across a continent. Railways and borders are being closed. Communication networks are being shut off. Selective controls have been imposed across several countries. There have been casual rejections of claims for asylum, with skimpy on-the-spot efforts to process requests. Special court sessions have been conveyed under new laws in Hungary to prosecute those breaching the newly imposed fence lines.

The most forceful action thus far has come on the Hungarian-Serbian border, precipitated by a total closure of the Horgoš border crossing. The threats made for several weeks had become a reality. A shock filtered through the columns, and it did not take much for the tear gas, pepper spray and water canon to be deployed.

Several people received medical attention from the Serbian ambulance service, while news crews swarmed over stories that a “refugee woman” was giving birth even as the riot was in full swing.The Serbian government has registered its fury (or “harshest possible protest”) with what it considered an extra-territorial incursion on the one hand, and an undue limitation on mobility. The Hungarian response has been to demand that more action be taken by Serbian personnel to protect police. Budapest is insistent that the border crossing will be closed for 30 days.

Ugliness is everywhere. Laws are in fitful retreat. The UN Refugee Agency has made the obvious point that such measures being witnessed at the Hungarian-Serb border are “contrary to international law and European jurisprudence.” Such bottling leads to one obvious consequence: even more dangerous routes will be found.

The result will naturally be a Mediterranean filled with more corpses, and rather happy people traffickers. As an official from Frontex, the EU’s border control agency explained with irrefutable logic, “Normally when one route gets blocked or more difficult, migrants’ first choice is to return to an old established route” (Financial Times, Sep 16).

Sensing that it might be losing the public relations battle, the Orbán government has had to resort to the tried and true technique of winning support: demonising the desperate. “He who makes a beast of himself,” explained Dr. Samuel Johnson, “gets rid of the pain of being a man.” Spokesman Zoltan Kovács took the chance to explain that the border incidents provided “a sign that the migrants are not peaceful.”[1]

The Hungarian precedent is certainly catching on, and what has been termed a “domino effect” of sealing borders has begun to take its ominous shape.[2] Austria is constricting its own routes with Hungary. Slovakia and the Czech Republic have also imposed controls. The “welcome refugees” campaign of some states is looking more insincere by the day.

In this latest, and ugly chapter, the only bright, humane spot came from one of Germany’s largest wholesale suppliers of fencing material, including wiring. The Hungarian government had placed an order for razor wire with Mutanox in August. It tends to be lighter than barbed wire, and sports small cutting blades that cut flesh with greater ease than barbs.

The company, however, has refused the supply Budapest claiming that razor wire was a protective measure against criminal acts. The spectacle of fleeing adults and children was distinctly something else. A Chinese firm, less concerned by such purposes and images, has managed to step in. The business of moving, and deterring refugees, is proving to be a big one.

Dr. Binoy Kampmark was a Commonwealth Scholar at Selwyn College, Cambridge. He lectures at RMIT University, Melbourne. Email: bkampmark@gmail.com

Notes

[1] http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/908539be-5c4a-11e5-a28b-50226830d644.html#axzz3lzVXBDa3 (http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/908539be-5c4a-11e5-a28b-50226830d644.html#axzz3lzVXBDa3)

[2] https://www.rt.com/news/315589-razor-wire-hungary-germany/ (https://www.rt.com/news/315589-razor-wire-hungary-germany/)
Copyright © Binoy Kampmark, Global Research, 2015
Title: Fortress Europe: a wall to keep foreigners out?
Post by: Guest on September 18, 2015, 03:45:51 AM


gc2smOff the keyboard of Ugo Bardi



Follow us on Twitter @doomstead666

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Published on Resource Crisis on September 14, 2015






Discuss this article at the Geopolitics Table inside the Diner



"….. the buffer zone has disappeared. The geographical transition from civilization to barbarism is now no longer gradual but it is abrupt. To use the appropriate Latin words, which bring out both the kinship and the contrast between the two types of contact, a limen, or threshold, which was a zone, has been replaced by a limes or military frontier. Across this line, a baffled dominant minority and an unconquered external proletariat now face one another under arms; and this military front is a bar to the passage of all social radiation except that of military technique – an article of exchange which makes for war and not for peace between those who give and take it. ….. the cardinal fact (is) that this temporary and precarious balance of forces inevitably tilts, with the passage of time, in favour of the Barbarians." From Arnold Toynbee, ""A study of History." (image above from Wikipedia)


 


 


The more I look at what's happening in the world today, the more it seems to me that we are following an already beaten path: we are going along the same way that the Roman Empire followed a couple of millennia ago, only faster. For every event that takes place today, you can find a parallel event that led the old Empire to its end. So, the present refugee crisis in Europe has a parallel in the crisis of the 1st century AD that led the empire to lock itself inside a set of fortifications. Is that the destiny that Europe faces today? Are we going to build a wall to keep the invaders out? A look of what happened to the Romans may tell us something about this point.


 


It all started in 9 A.D., when three Roman legions were destroyed by a coalition of German tribes in a battle in the forest of Teutoburg. It was an epochal defeat, a sign that something was badly wrong with the Empire that, up to then, had easily defeated every enemy. And, as a consequence, the Romans panicked.



You probably know the story, told by Suetonius, of Emperor Augustus walking at night in his palace, asking the dead general who had led the legions at Teutoburg, "give me back my legions". But that was only a symptom of a general fear that the Barbarians would soon march all the way to Rome.



Fear often leads to overreacting, and there is no doubt that the Romans overreacted. It would take four centuries after Teutoburg before Rome was besieged and taken by a Barbarian army. But, at that time, fear reigned in the Empire. A few years afterward, the Romans invaded Germany again with no less than 8 legions; without accomplishing much more than demonstrating that there was no way for them to conquer and subdue the Germans.  Then, they changed their strategy: if the barbarians couldn't be defeated, they could at least be kept out of the empire.



Border fortifications around the Roman Empire had been existing even before the battle of Teutoburg, but, after the battle, they were greatly expanded and strengthened. The final result was the system of border fortifications around the Empire that we call today "limes" (even though the Romans didn't use that word). A series of walls that started at the Northern border of Britannia and circled the whole Empire, even though not continuously.



Were the fortifications useful? For one thing, it is true that they kept the Barbarian armies at bay for a few centuries. But it is also true that they must have been atrociously expensive. So much that, eventually, the economy of the Roman Empire became engaged in only two activities: cultivating grain and maintaining the border fortifications. Unfortunately, we lack the data we would need in order to quantify these expenses, but I think it can be proposed that the border fortifications were such an economic burden that they were a major factor leading to the eventual demise of the Empire.



The fortifications had another problem; perhaps even bigger: in the effort of keeping the Barbarians out, the Romans had locked themselves in a no-win situation. They badly needed slaves for their agriculture and soldiers for their armies, and this manpower, during the late years of the Empire, would largely come from Barbarian people. But how would Barbarians came in if the borders of the Empire were closed? The wall, in principle, should have kept Barbarian armies out, but let Barbarian workers in. However, the Romans never could convince the Barbarians that it was a good idea for them to come into the Empire to become slaves in the name of the free market. It is possible that the walls were not only too expensive for their purpose, but even counterproductive as they kept out manpower that the Empire desperately needed.



Over time, it became impossible for the Empire to maintain the fortifications and, with the beginning of the 5th century, they were abandoned. According to Gibbon, it was in the winter of 406 AD that the frozen Rhine made it possible for a large number of Barbarians to cross the river and to march into the Empire unopposed in a crisis that resembles very much the flow of refugees pouring into Europe today. A few years later, in 410 AD, Rome was sacked for the first time in the Imperial age by the Visigoths. Then, in 455 AD, Rome was sacked again by the Vandals and, this time, it was truly the end of the Western Roman Empire. For a few decades afterward, some individuals still claimed the title of "Roman Emperor"; but nobody was paying much attention to them. The walls had not helped Rome to survive.



Is this what's going to happen to Europe in our times? Are we going to make the same mistake the Romans made and ruin ourselves by building an expensive wall to stop invaders from entering

Europe?



Right now, walls don't seem to be in the plans, also because European didn't experience an equivalent of the defeat of Teutoburg (yet). So, it seems that the European governments are seeing the refugees from abroad as cheap manpower that Europe desperately needs – just like Rome did, long ago. But it is also clear that the situation can't remain the way it is for a long time, with millions of refugees pushing at the borders of Europe, chased away from their lands by a combination of wars and climate change. At some point, someone will start panicking and call for a defensive wall.



Modern Europe has seen already a wall separating it in two halves, the one that was called "the Iron Curtain". Also that wall didn't bring good luck to those who built it, whose economy collapsed among other factors also under the weight of maintaining the walls. A new wall to keep North Africans and Middle Eastern people out would probably cripple Europe forever. Will it be built? We can't say, right now, but one thing that we learn from history is that we never learn from history


Title: The Long, Dangerous March
Post by: RE on September 18, 2015, 06:41:50 PM
One can only wonder how many die along the way.

RE

The Long, Dangerous March South Asian Migrants Make Through South America to Get to the US (http://www.vice.com/read/a-modern-odyssey-the-long-treacherous-march-of-south-asian-migrants-through-south-america-915)

September 18, 2015

By Arthur Holland Michel

(https://vice-images.vice.com/images/content-images/2015/09/15/the-brutal-odyssey-of-immigrating-from-asia-to-the-united-states-via-south-america-915-body-image-1442337423.jpg?resize=*:*&output-quality=)
Photo via Flickr user utcomm

In early February 2014, an exhausted 17-year-old named Sujon Alom was arrested in Texas after illegally crossing the border from Mexico. In the children's detention facility where he was held, Alom's fellow inmates were mostly Central American. He was from a little further afield: His journey began in Noakhali, a rural district in southeastern Bangladesh. It had been a long, dangerous, and difficult trip.

"I knew that I was going to come to America by road, that I was going to cross different countries," said Alom, who has been released while his asylum petition is pending. Speaking through an interpreter in a cramped tutoring center in Jamaica, Queens, he recounted in detail the remarkable and often hellish overland odyssey that he had taken to reach the United States. After flying from Bangladesh, Alom's land journey began in Bolivia. Traveling via various forms of transportation including buses and taxis, he had been smuggled north through Peru, Ecuador, Colombia, and on to Panama, across Central America. He had hiked for days through the Ecuadorian and Panamanian rainforests, rarely stopping to sleep. At one point in Mexico, he and 12 others spent three days locked in a semi trailer with no food. When he reached the US border, which he said he crossed in a small boat along with about 20 other migrants, it had been three and a half months since he'd left Bangladesh. He had traversed 11 different countries by road and foot.

He hadn't seen a bed in 4,000 miles.

    On VICE News: 'I'm Doing it to Survive': Crossing the Croatian Border with Hundreds of Migrants

Alom's story, if incredible, is not unique. As Europe grapples with a catastrophic migrant crisis, and as the US heads into a presidential election in which immigration is set to become a central issue, an overlooked but growing group of undocumented migrants, mainly from South Asia, has forged a preposterously circuitous corridor through South America in the hope of reaching the United States. Thousands of people from Bangladesh, India, Pakistan, and Nepal are traveling up to 10,000 overland miles from as far south as Bolivia and Argentina—a trip that can take anywhere from three to six months. Along the way, migrants endure kidnappings, long detentions, hunger, and sickness. The harrowing details of this long South Asian march through South America offer a particularly dismaying illustration of the increasingly extreme risks that some are taking in the pursuit of a better life.

So far this year, there have been 2,988 apprehensions of Indians, Bangladeshis, Pakistanis, and Nepalis, compared to 924 in the whole of 2012.

Fahd Ahmed, a staff member at DRUM NYC, a large union for documented and undocumented South Asian migrants, first heard reports of Indian and Bangladeshi individuals showing up at the US-Mexico border in 2010. Before that time, "Usually people would come here on a visit visa and overstay," explained Ahmed, who is now the director of DRUM. It was discovered that immigrants from Asia, particularly South Asia, had been flying to Guatemala, where they joined the stream of Central American individuals heading toward the US. Some news outlets reported that small numbers of migrants were thought to be arriving through South America, though these cases were never confirmed in the press. In the following years, as international focus on migration into Guatemala intensified, landfall points were pushed much farther south. It was only a year and a half ago that Ahmed began to hear stories of DRUM members who had traveled from Peru, Bolivia, and Brazil. He now hears such stories with increasing frequency.

This route, which could be up to three times as long as the journey from Guatemala, appears to be the new norm. John Lawit, an immigration attorney based in Texas, told me that in the past 18 months he's interviewed 70 people from Bangladesh and India who were apprehended at the Mexico border. Every single one of them, he explained, had made the overland journey through South America. According to Lawit, roughly 50 people in that group signed affidavits affirming the details of their journey.

Lawit, who has since left that law firm, described one man's account from an affidavit that he was working on at the time of the interview. "He left Bangladesh in August of 2014," he said. "He then went to Dubai, then to Brazil, then to Argentina, then to Bolivia. From Bolivia he went back to Brazil. Then he went to Venezuela, then to Colombia. Then to Panama, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, drove to El Salvador, then on to Guatemala. Took a bus to the Mexican border. He was arrested and jailed for 13 days in Mexico, then he was given a 20-day visa to leave Mexico and return to Bangladesh. And at that point he came to the United States."

He paused. "That's pretty typical."

The migrants who spoke to VICE were often kept in the dark about where exactly their smugglers were taking them, so it's difficult to estimate exactly what kind of distances they covered. By road, the journey from La Paz to El Paso, Texas is roughly 6,000 miles. But these migrants often cross borders between South and Central American countries illegally by foot and take long detours in order to evade immigration authorities and police, so their actual routes are probably much longer.

"For many people in Bangladesh, life is just unbearable, because they have to choose the right side, and if they don't choose the right side they're persecuted." —John Lawit

One Bangladeshi crosser, Akash, whose real name I have withheld because he is undocumented, began his overland journey in Peru. He described various multi-day treks through difficult terrain, including steep mountainous areas and thick jungles. He was taken from Colombia to Panama by boat, probably across the Gulf of Urabá, which has, according to the Colombian Navy, become a busy transit route for migrants from many different countries, such as Cuba and Haiti. Akash, like others, described being held in safe houses along the route, sometimes spending weeks in unfamiliar towns and cities, the names of which they were often never told. Detentions and kidnappings are common.

Official figures reflect a significant spike in South Asian overland migration into the US since 2012. According to statistics prepared for VICE by Customs and Border Protection, yearly border apprehensions of South Asians have more than tripled between 2012 and 2015. So far this year, there have been 2,988 apprehensions of Indians, Bangladeshis, Pakistanis, and Nepalis, compared to 924 in the whole of 2012.

Watch our interview with Senator Chuck Schumer:

Asylum statistics also suggest that undocumented South Asian crossings into the US are on the rise. In December 2013, Rezaul Islam approached the American border at Tijuana by foot. When a Customs and Border Protection officer asked him for his documents, Islam, who is middle-aged, said that he didn't have any, and that he was seeking political asylum. He had left Dhaka three years earlier. A member of the Jamaat-e-Islami political party, Islam had seen how fellow party officials were being picked up in a spate of arrests under the new ruling party, the Awami League. He had flown to Ecuador, where he lived and worked illegally from 2010 until 2013, when he joined the ever-growing stream of his countrymen who were passing through Quito en route to the US border. While his application was processed, he claims that he was held for 180 days at the Tacoma Northwest Detention Center, in Washington State.

Like Rezaul Islam, those who are apprehended often petition for political asylum. "For many people in Bangladesh, life is just unbearable, because they have to choose the right side, and if they don't choose the right side they're persecuted," Lawit said. Asylum statistics also reflect the likely surge in South Asian border crossings. According to figures released by the Department of Justice, the US government received over twice the number of asylum petitions from people of Indian and Bangladeshi origin in 2014 than it had in any of the four previous years.

Of course, apprehensions and asylum statistics only represent part of the picture. No official estimates have yet been produced for the number of South Asian migrants like Akash, who were able to evade authorities and who chose not to file for asylum. Fahd Ahmed has heard anecdotal evidence, through DRUM's members, of dozens of cases of border crossers who began their journeys in Bolivia, Peru, and Ecuador. However, many crossers are reluctant to speak even to him, given their undocumented status. Rezaul Islam claims that he knows hundreds of South Asians living in the US who made the journey through South America. He says that while living in Quito for three years, he saw thousands of migrants passing through en route to the US border.

Continued below.
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The passage of such large numbers of migrants across such vast distances is enabled by a complex intercontinental criminal network. In migrants' home countries, so-called "agents" will offer prospective migrants passage to the United States for anywhere between $15,000 and $30,000. Once in South America, migrants are received by a string of local smugglers, who relay their human consignment across thousands of miles.

"There may be six or eight different people that they meet with in order to get to the US," Lawit told me. Sujon, Rezaul, and Akash all confirmed that they were ferried along their routes by a coordinated network of local smugglers, who communicated by cell phone. Migrants "pay the money to an agent in Bangladesh, the agent gives them a number for all the countries," said Islam, who did not arrange his journey through an agent in Bangladesh. "This is their business." At several points, Akash, who was defrauded by the original agent he contracted in Dhaka, stayed in safe houses along with other migrants. On at least one occasion, he spent several days at a smuggler's house.

"By zigzagging all over the continents, and changing the pattern every time," Lawit said, "it makes it very hard for the US government to pick up the routes."

"They have figured out multiple points, they have contacts at multiple points," said Ahmed, who described how previously agents would help produce fake documents, or secure tourist visas. "The complexity of it, the depth of it is much greater." In order to evade immigration enforcement, smugglers vary their routes, sometimes drastically. "By zigzagging all over the continents, and changing the pattern every time," Lawit said, "it makes it very hard for the US government to pick up the routes."

The authorities of Colombia, Ecuador, and Peru now find themselves playing the role of immigration enforcers. In 2010, the year that Rezaul Islam landed in Quito, Ecuadorian officials noticed a striking spike in the number of Bangladeshi and Pakistani citizens entering the country on tourist visas, only to then disappear. Ecuador had never been a popular destination for Bangladeshis: In 2002, not a single Bangladeshi citizen entered the country's borders, according to the BBC's Spanish language service. In 2009, 821 Bangladeshi and Pakistani citizens landed in Ecuador and obtained tourist visas. Of those individuals, a majority never registered as having left the country.

Local authorities have struggled to keep up with the smuggling networks that sustain the transit of South Asians across their borders. According to the Peruvian newspaper El Comercio, in 2013, the Peruvian National Police arrested two men, a Nepali and a Bangladeshi, who allegedly orchestrated the transportation for dozens of South Asians toward the United States. There have been multiple reports of police in Peru, Ecuador, and Colombia discovering holding houses with dozens of undocumented migrants from Bangladesh, India, and Nepal.

"If I had known, I never would have come. Everybody was cheating me." —Akash

The journey is, by every account, extremely dangerous.

When Akash, who said he left Bangladesh after receiving death threats from men associated with a property development company engaged in a protracted dispute with his father, arrived in Ecuador, he was abandoned by his Bangladeshi agent, who had received $15,000 to arrange the journey to the US. For the 18-hour trip across the Gulf of Urabá, Akash and 25 others were packed into a boat that was just wide enough for two people to sit, pressed against each other in the fetal position. He described how the boat's engine cut out several times. Once he reached the Panamanian Isthmus, he walked for six days through the jungle, contracting a severe skin infection that made his skin bright red.

During a seven-day trek through the same area, Rezaul Islam saw a fellow traveler drown while attempting to cross a river. He said that meals consisted of a single mouthful of raw rice, once or twice a day. His legs are covered in large scars from cuts and insect bites that he says he acquired during his various overland treks.

In Mexico, Akash was forced into a semi trailer, like Sujon Alom, with around 20 other migrants. After being detained by Mexican immigration officials for just under a month, Akash said he was kidnapped and held for ransom by a coyote called "the Tiger," to whom he had already paid $5,000 to smuggle him into the US. By the time he reached New York City, he had been traveling for six months; he claims that the journey had cost his family $33,000.

Nobody in Bangladesh had told him about the risks involved in taking the South American route. "If I had known, I never would have come. Everybody was cheating me," he said.

Even the dismaying stories of those migrants who make it to the US likely do not really reflect the full extent of the risks of the journey. "It's a self-selecting sample," Fahd Ahmed explained. "The people who didn't make it, who took the really risky routes, those people aren't here."

"I have two contradictory feelings," Fahd Ahmed said when asked what he thought about the South American odyssey that his members had taken. "The first one is a desire to say, 'Why would you do this?' And to encourage people not to do this.

"On the other hand, the stronger feeling is that migration is natural to human beings," he continued. "We need to be a lot more concerned about addressing the root causes of why people are being forced to migrate in the first place." He explained that DRUM channels the experience of it members into tangible demands. As a result, it maintains a strong anti-immigration enforcement stance, and demands policies that address the forces that motivate illegal migration from South Asia in the first place.

Sujon Alom, for his part, is glad to be in America. "I am safe, so I am happy," he said. But he also wonders whether the risks that he had endured were worth it. In the tutoring center, he reflected on the harrowing experience in the truck.

"No, they didn't open it," he said. "They gave us no food. They only gave us water. If we needed to pee, they gave us big empty water bottles." When one of the men lost consciousness, the driver instructed Alom and the others to dump him by the side of the road (they refused). He says he still hasn't fully recovered from the physical strain and malnutrition that he experienced on the trip. "I heard that this was a dangerous way to get to America," he said, "but I had no idea what type of risks or what type of danger I'd see. Every single second we had no guarantee that our lives were safe." He continued, "I want to say: Don't try this. It's very dangerous."

He turned from his interpreter and repeated, now in English, "Very dangerous."
Title: What is Really Behind the Refugee Crisis in Europe?
Post by: Guest Blogger on September 19, 2015, 02:19:33 AM


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Published on Question Everything on September 11, 2015



Boat-Refugees



Discuss this article at the Geopolitics Table inside the Diner




The Resource Crisis and Climate Change



Back in July, 2013 I wrote this post, MENA – A Model of the Future? in which I dug deeper into the then crisis transpiring in Egypt where a revolt against the Morsi government was being spurred by the fact that the dwindling natural resources per capita (especially energy) were fundamentally unsolvable by any government. The people were unhappy because they thought that by voting in a new government democratically they would solve their problems (jobs, food, water, fuel, etc.) But it didn't happen for the simple reason that the resource pie was shrinking faster than any government actions (say attracting some kind of investment in the country) could counter. Things got worse and people once again took to the streets. Today, two years later, things have gotten considerably worse under the military regime that kicked out Morsi and took over. As I claimed then and reiterate, it is a matter of plain and simple physics, not politics. You cannot legislate resources into existence.



People have gotten used to thinking that solutions come from politics – having the right officials in place means that they will solve the problems. People everywhere pretty much assume this is the case, even in the US where the freak show called the presidential campaign is off and running. No doubt many republicans in the US sincerely believe that Donald Trump will solve all the problems and everything will be right as rain once again ("Make America great again").



But politicians are not miracle workers. They cannot feed the multitudes from a few loaves of bread and a couple of fish. What they have become, however, right along side their neoclassical economics allies, are fair magicians — prestidigitators. They know how to manipulate smoke and mirrors and conjure economic spells. They are nothing more than snake oil con men (and women). The irony is that they actually believe what they say and are convinced they know how to really make good stuff happen. They are a testament to the capacity of the less-than-sapient mind's ability to double think.



The simple truth is that when you find yourself in deep resource depletion and high population no amount of financial hocus pocus or political posturing or brute force can fix anything. The Morsi government nor the military junta before and after could ever possibly satisfy the needs of the people. No government could. Nor could there be massive aid influx to ease the situation. The other nations of the world are all much poorer than they will admit. They cannot pump enough resources into the region to solve the problems. There is no scenario in which this comes out well.



Our talking heads continue to evaluate the “causes” of the mass exodus from the MENA region as due to the political unrest growing more violent by the day. For example they look at Syria and blame the problems, initially, on Asad and the rebellion/civil war that threatens so many civilians. Then the US government focuses on the ISIS threat as causing so many people to want to leave. These destructive acts are merely proximate causes. The rebels against Asad are basically repeating the story in Egypt. They claim that bad government (Asad) is the cause of the problems experienced by the people. Replace the government and problem solved! Right? Much the same story is being repeated through out the other failed states in the region.



The civil wars and lawlessness (e.g. Boko Haram) are driven by the rapid decline of resources compounded now by climate consequences, drought and severe temperatures. People are fighting for dwindling resources in increasingly unlivable conditions. The citizens of these states are responding most immediately to the violence, and claiming political asylum on that basis. But make no mistake. They are ultimately climate and resource refugees. And there is no policy or plan that will correct the situation. The lucky ones will escape (if they don't die on the journey) to Europe and possibly to the US. But that will simply cause resource strains in those areas where they settle. Nor will the flood taper off until the region is mostly emptied.



MENA is just the first example of what is happening in the world. As the climate situation worsens, and we now know that it is and will further, affecting every continent on the planet, and as resource depletions grow acute in various focused locations, we will see this same scenario played out again and again. Political upheaval based on the belief that the government's ineptitude, or corruption, or whatever, is responsible for the problems that ensue (food shortages, fuel shortages, unemployment, etc.) will give over to violence. Regimes will change, but the problems will just grow worse.



Perhaps the US and some of the remaining western “rich” nations will try to help, intervene to reduce violence, or attempt to aid relocations. But their capacity to afford such actions are growing weaker with every day that passes. At some point the wealthy nations will no longer be truly wealthy and will decline to try to help. They will, in fact, be starting to feel the same effects themselves. Already we see the discord and extreme polarizations taking place in many western polities. In the US we tend to blame the congress for its deadlocked inability to pass laws that will effect economic change (and assumed progress). Neither side gets a thumbs-up on its economic ideas. In any case both sides firmly believe that economic growth is the solution to all problems and neither recognizes that we've used up all of the resources that we need to do so. They are so blind to reality that all they can really do from now on is exacerbate the problems. In the US we are in a situation that only the most blind persons even seek political position. They are so stupid and ignorant that they cannot even conceive that problems have real physical roots. Pity.



All over the world, right now, you can find cases of pockets of affected areas where people are starting to move out seeking somewhere where they can find work and resources. Within nations like Brazil, China, Russia, and even the United States there are instances of people becoming refugees. The Dust Bowl events in the US are another model for what is happening. Right now, in each of these countries the migrations are within the borders (except in Mexico and other Latin American countries) and so don't show up in “official” statistics.



Certainly there have been relocation migrations throughout humankind's history. We've always managed to deplete local resources forcing people to abandon a region, for example areas in the Middle East were once far more productive than in recent history before ungulate grazing changed the region's climate. And there have been many cases of people simply seeking better conditions (e.g. the American West promised great possibilities, especially during the Gold Rush). What is different about the current situation is that we are looking at a global phenomenon. Resources have been depleted just about everywhere. Climate is changing everywhere and at a breath-taking rate. The regions that are experiencing the worst effects are now quite obvious. The MENA region is probably the most dramatic. For example, by contrast, island nations being threatened by sea level rise and Arctic regions being impacted by loss of ice have fewer people affected and so do not rise to the level of global-level stress. Nevertheless the people effected in these regions are beginning to plan their escapes from their situations.



Right now in China there are many local emigrations taking place due to combinations of insufficient resources and climate change consequences. There is also a fair amount of unrest brewing in various areas. These are not as dramatic (yet) as the case in the MENA region. And internal migrations, as I said, are not depicted in the same manner as the refugee flood from the MENA to Europe. In fact it might be even worse in China than we know. The country is so much larger, the populations involved so much larger, and the information flow coming out of the country is subject to so much filtering that we might not get a good idea of what is happening there until significant violence breaks out that can't be hidden. But based on China's geographical conditions, and its potential susceptibility to climate disruptions, and the distributions of its huge population, I expect to soon see a situation similar to the MENA refugees become obvious in China.



India might erupt before China. The Indian subcontinent's orientation (North-South axis), its reliance on the snow falls and ice reservoirs in the Himalayas and its proximity to the equator make it a candidate for significant climate disruptions. It is already suffering changes in its monsoon patterns at the same time the huge population is withdrawing more water from its limited resources. However, in India I would not be surprised to see a somewhat different response from the populace. The vast majority of people in the country do not have mobility resources in the same way many Chinese do. It would not surprise me if a significant portion of the Indian population simply succumbed in place rather than trying to trek out. The distances are too great and the conditions along the way are likely to not provide support. There is no other large body of land nearby for those in the costal regions to escape to.



As the MENA refugee crisis unfolds this fall we will have a good view of what to expect world-wide. Right now a fair amount of European sentiment is in support of the migrants (I know there is a technical difference between a migrant and a refugee, but as I claimed above, these refugees are really climate-escape migrants). As more and more pour into the continent we will see how long this sentiment carries. There are many anti-migrant advocates already making noises and trying to get more political purchase. A lot will depend on the economic strength of the countries taking in the migrants — will the local natives be able to get jobs? — and the behavior of the immigrants. There is a real danger of culture clash based on the religious backgrounds of Muslim immigrants and secular (or Christian) natives. I refuse to predict anything on this count. The situation is too chaotic.



What I will predict is that the phenomenon will grow and worsen over the next decade. This is a one-way street we are on and no U-turns are possible. You can't un-deplete resources, especially fossil fuel energy. Readers of my biophysical economics writings will know how dim a view I have of the prospects of alternative energies replacing fossil fuels even if we were to undertake a huge reduction in net energy use. Alternatives might ease the pain a bit, for a while, but they cannot provide the long term flows of high power energy that it takes to drive our modern technologies. Magical and wishful thinking cannot change that fact. Alternative energy capture and conversion equipment (i.e. wind towers and solar arrays) are still built, installed, and maintained using fossil fuel power. It is quite doubtful that they will ever be self-sustaining to the extent of providing adequate net energy for economic uses.



If you want to consider your own future, imagine yourself in the shoes of one of the MENA refugees right now. Many of the ones who are making the trip had some basic monetary resources to afford the passage. But look at what they were reduced to in doing so. Imagine yourself now in a situation where the local stores are no longer stocked with food and other necessaries. Imagine your electricity being intermittent, maybe only on ten percent of the day. Imagine transportation breakdowns, perhaps gas is no longer delivered to your gas station. Imagine communications breakdowns. No Internet. No telephones (cell or land lines). What will you do?



But more than that, imagine that you decide to escape. Where will you go. The MENA refugees have Europe, ostensibly, to escape to. They expect their problems to be greatly reduced in these new lands. After all, the North is rich. Where will you go? What country will you escape to? Maybe some Americans are thinking they will go to Canada! But do they actually understand what the climate changes are going to mean for all of North America?



I doubt there will be any real escape. The best a sapient being can do is find a location that looks like it will be least impacted by climate, get situated and hunker down. With luck, you might just make it.



Title: Iraqui Dentist picks the Wrong Border Crossing
Post by: RE on September 19, 2015, 08:21:00 PM
Quote
Ammar Jessem, 24, a dentist from Baghdad, said the travelers had heard the border was open, and were disappointed after walking through Croatia in hopes of going north.

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/9/19/refugees-in-austria-from-croatia-hungary.html (http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/9/19/refugees-in-austria-from-croatia-hungary.html)

Eddie you should find this guy!  I'm sure he'll be happy to work in a small dental office in TX!

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on September 20, 2015, 10:58:07 AM
Believe it or not, I once had a patient by that last name, who had family in Iraq. I suppose it isn't an uncommon name...but it makes me wonder.

 An Iraqi dentist would be lucky to find a job as a janitor here. I have a friend, an old guy who was a dentist in Czechoslovakia. He got out in the late 60's I think. He worked as a janitor for years in Canada while he worked toward getting his credentials there.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on September 20, 2015, 11:46:26 AM
Believe it or not, I once had a patient by that last name, who had family in Iraq. I suppose it isn't an uncommon name...but it makes me wonder.

 An Iraqi dentist would be lucky to find a job as a janitor here. I have a friend, an old guy who was a dentist in Czechoslovakia. He got out in the late 60's I think. He worked as a janitor for years in Canada while he worked toward getting his credentials there.

Im not totally sure but i think Iraqi quals are recognused here in oz. I worked with these guys from 2006 to 2008 (These are all in one city.) 

http://www.aussiemuslims.net/index.php?Itemid=49&option=com_sobi2&sobi2Id=17&sobi2Task=sobi2Details (http://www.aussiemuslims.net/index.php?Itemid=49&option=com_sobi2&sobi2Id=17&sobi2Task=sobi2Details)


Dr Hassan was from Iraq and had left there  not that long before, i think maybe 2 years. The only thing i saw to question his competence was cutting out a suspected melanoma spot himself and stitching up leaving scar, instead of referring patient on to the skin cancer specialists who would have done a neater job. But u can see his reviews by patients are good.

The clinic was just fully renovated,  had good parking,  ambulance parking out front,  and several big consulting rooms with pharmacy/newsagency attached but i was the only other one there with him. There were meant to be more according to the meeting i had with the Dr bankrolling the place,  (at McDonald's the cheapskate).  A couple of months later Dr Amira from Egypt (also on that list) who had a big clinic in the next suburb over, asked me to move over to his place. I mentioned the clinic was still empty only the two of us there, and he said nobody can work with dr Hassan, didnt say why.

The problem was pushing religion, he had no magazines  in the waiting room, only religious books with translation from arabic to english,  and didnt miss an opportunity  to talk about the "true faith"  and why dont I just come to prayer and listen. But apparently he wasnt very religious at all before the war.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on September 20, 2015, 07:08:01 PM
Believe it or not, I once had a patient by that last name, who had family in Iraq. I suppose it isn't an uncommon name...but it makes me wonder.

 An Iraqi dentist would be lucky to find a job as a janitor here. I have a friend, an old guy who was a dentist in Czechoslovakia. He got out in the late 60's I think. He worked as a janitor for years in Canada while he worked toward getting his credentials there.

You don't need a Janitor in the Dental Office?  He can do cleanup while he works on jumping through the Gatekeeping hoops here to get licensed.  You could tutor him on how to pass the exams too, you've done it often enough.

The guy would owe you his LIFE.

Anybody with the gumption to walk his way out of Iraq is somebody who will WORK.

When he gets his license 5 years down the line, you got somebody to hand the bizness to, it doesn't die when you retire.

SAVE AS MANY AS YOU CAN.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread --- Sweden for the Swedes
Post by: Eddie on September 21, 2015, 06:07:51 AM
While it's PC in the West to feel sorry for refugees, the fact remains that nobody particularly wants one living next door. And especially not several thousand new ones living next door, and impacting the economy and social services.

http://www.acting-man.com/?p=40183#more-40183 (http://www.acting-man.com/?p=40183#more-40183)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread --- Sweden for the Swedes
Post by: RE on September 21, 2015, 06:31:31 AM
While it's PC in the West to feel sorry for refugees, the fact remains that nobody particularly wants one living next door. And especially not several thousand new ones living next door, and impacting the economy and social services.

http://www.acting-man.com/?p=40183#more-40183 (http://www.acting-man.com/?p=40183#more-40183)

We have a Swedish Boots on the Ground Reporter Linda (http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/2015/09/17/the-end-of-more-norman-pagett-part-4/#comment-2089) covering this in the Blog Commentariat.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: JoeD on September 21, 2015, 09:55:03 AM
A quick comment on Ugo's Fortress Europe piece...he points to a difference between the current refugee situation and the Roman period in that the West has not suffered a battle loss equivalent to the Teutoburg battle.  However, I might suggest that 9/11 should serve the same milestone.  Putting aside the possibilities of 9/11 being an inside job, those attacks mark a monumental shift in demonstrating the reality that eventually the "barbarians" strike back and succeed. 9/11 was a watershed moment in advancing the security state and the surveillance state - to round out our existing military state.  The Germanic threat didn't pop into existence at the battle of Teutoburg; nor did the Islamic terrorist threat suddenly materialize in 2001.  It's simply that in both cases, those were the first highly visible counter-punches that drew blood and put fear into the ruling elite's hearts.  Which of course led to decades of reactionary activity - further bankrupting the declining empires.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread --- Refugee Demographics in Question
Post by: Eddie on September 21, 2015, 12:46:30 PM
Couple of weeks ago most reports had two thirds of refugees reaching European soil to be Syrians fleeing the war. Now it appears that might not be the case...it might be as few as 20%.

Do you think someone might lie about his/her nationality if it helped them get asylum status?

Do you think all Muslims look pretty much the same to Europeans?  (Other than the Nigerians and Eritreans, who are obviously darker skinned than Iraqis and Afghans and Syrians.)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on September 21, 2015, 03:24:37 PM
Its a religion not a race Ed.

The afghans recognised as persecuted bu majority pashtun have been minority hazara, they look asiatic not arabic. Also if u r syrian isnt it even better to be christian for the purpose of claiming asylum. Dont be surprised if syria is deemed safe to return to thanks to the russians securing half of it.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Mercury on September 21, 2015, 10:18:22 PM
The neo-Nazis have found fertile ground in a place that is traditionally left-wing. Shows how low the fortunes of the old social democratic party of PASOK, which used to command up to 75% of the vote until a few years back, have fallen. Voter turnout across the country was the lowest on record, barely 55%.

Golden Dawn Doubles Vote Share on Greek Island of Kos (http://www.dw.com/en/kos-desperately-needs-a-refugee-camp/a-18725535)

Greece' s Nazi-inspired, anti-immigration party saw a strong showing in this weekend's national election — especially on one island struggling to cope with an influx of refugees and migrants.

Golden Dawn returned more than 10 percent of the vote on Kos in Sunday's election — almost double their previous representation on the island, according to official results released by the Greek Interior Ministry. The poll was called amid twin debt and immigration crises gripping Greece...
Title: Europe Faces Cultural Disaster: “A Direct Threat to Our Civilization"
Post by: RE on September 23, 2015, 05:15:28 AM
The Muslim Horde is Coming!

http://www.youtube.com/v/HdNn5TZu6R8

RE

http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/europe-faces-cultural-disaster-as-refugees-pour-in-a-direct-threat-to-our-civilization_09222015 (http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/europe-faces-cultural-disaster-as-refugees-pour-in-a-direct-threat-to-our-civilization_09222015)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on September 23, 2015, 06:51:47 AM
Since Europe can't handle the flow with all its transport links working, you have to wonder how Syria-Turkey can handle the flow with a war going on.  The answer is that they can't, so these must be refugees that were building up numbers in Turkey over years.  And then suddenly they all decided to leave for Germany at the same time?  Hardly likely.  More likely Turkey organised for them to go.

(http://media.worldbulletin.net/news/2015/04/15/refugeesgreece.jpg)

And where to do all these 25 foot inflatables come from ?  You can't just buy them in the shops and carry them down to the beach.  They are big and very heavy even when deflated.
Title: Refugees: KATY, BAR THE DOOR!
Post by: RE on September 24, 2015, 08:22:53 PM
This is going to get interesting...

RE

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/11887091/EU-chief-Close-the-doors-and-windows-as-millions-more-migrants-are-coming.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/11887091/EU-chief-Close-the-doors-and-windows-as-millions-more-migrants-are-coming.html)

(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03427/migrants-budapest-_3427607b.jpg)
Migrants try to board a train in Keleti station in central Budapest after it was reopened Photo: Getty Images
Title: A World of Concentration Camps
Post by: RE on September 24, 2015, 11:00:39 PM
http://www.globalresearch.ca/european-union-adopts-plan-to-keep-out-refugees/5477924 (http://www.globalresearch.ca/european-union-adopts-plan-to-keep-out-refugees/5477924)

I may flesh this out to a full article, but the European Plan is now becoming clearer.

Obviously, the 120,000 Refugees they will supposedly take in is a drop in the bucket.  What they really are doing is figuring out how to try and stem the tide and seal the borders to Europe.

The plan is to fork over $1B for "Humantiarian" aid to countries where refugees are streaming out of, which means building Refugee Camps at the borders of these countries.  These places will of course become hell holes in no time, and $1B is chump change for the scope of this problem.  There is no way to even get decent sanitation with this bit of pocket change for so many people. They are Concentration Camps by another name, just this time instead of them being inside the border of Germany or Poland, they are outside in Syria and Afghanistan.

The flaw in the plan IMHO is that it is going to be close to impossible to seal these borders, since you just have miles of coastline to patrol here.  They'll also need to have a "Papers Please" policy everywhere for local Gestapo to check and make sure you are legally documented.

Basically, they are going to try to turn Europe into one big Gated Community and try to keep out the riff-raff.

I don't see this one working out too well.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on September 25, 2015, 05:43:18 AM
American women find the Muslim culture to be one of brutal oppression, and as a consequence aren't going to like living cheek by jowl with a society that is 1000 years behind ours in terms of equality and human decency.

These new refugee camps are unsafe for women and children, because Muslim men view them as cattle at best, and more of the time, like prey for them to take advantage of.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3247831/Rape-child-abuse-rife-overcrowded-asylum-centres-huge-surge-migrants-pushes-Germany-s-services-breaking-point-claim-womens-rights-groups-politicians.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3247831/Rape-child-abuse-rife-overcrowded-asylum-centres-huge-surge-migrants-pushes-Germany-s-services-breaking-point-claim-womens-rights-groups-politicians.html)


Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on September 25, 2015, 06:47:24 AM
Quote
a society that is 1000 years behind ours in terms of equality and human decency.

What bullshit!  In the USA womens' right to vote has been around for less than 100 years.  Everyday in the US, more than three women are murdered by their husbands or boyfriends, and in 92% of all domestic violence incidents, crimes are committed by men against women. 31% of American women report being physically or sexually abused by a husband or boyfriend at some point in their lives.

The incarceration rate of the US is the highest in the world, at 716 per 100,000 of the national population, and in Texas the rate is double that. The US is one of only 36 countries to still use the death penalty.  Saudi Arabia has a murder rate of 0.8 per 100,000, the same as Germany, Denmark and Spain, while in the US the murder rate is 4.7.

I could go on and on - racism, sexism, drug addiction, crime.
Get this: on equality and human decency, THE US IS THE VERY WORST IN THE WORLD.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on September 25, 2015, 07:18:56 AM
American women find the Muslim culture to be one of brutal oppression, and as a consequence aren't going to like living cheek by jowl with a society that is 1000 years behind ours in terms of equality and human decency.

These new refugee camps are unsafe for women and children, because Muslim men view them as cattle at best, and more of the time, like prey for them to take advantage of.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3247831/Rape-child-abuse-rife-overcrowded-asylum-centres-huge-surge-migrants-pushes-Germany-s-services-breaking-point-claim-womens-rights-groups-politicians.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3247831/Rape-child-abuse-rife-overcrowded-asylum-centres-huge-surge-migrants-pushes-Germany-s-services-breaking-point-claim-womens-rights-groups-politicians.html)

What do u mean by human decency, lack of degeneracy? No rushing onto the stage topless at a christian conference, no counterparts to girls gone wild.?

This is a problem in other refugee camps with different religions, including rape and sexual coercion by the enlightened western contractors, kind of like the western military do. U know the stories of good ole boys forcing husbands and children to watch, or parents to watch. What about the mexican refugees with a reputation for raping, good catholics.

Most muslim women are sick of the stereotype and think they are valued more than western women. saudis might be a bit sleazy, but ive met men and women from iran, iraq, afghanistan,  egypt, lebanon, turkey , syria, albania and africa. I dont think any of the women were opressed or any of the men opressors and that  includes one who married an english woman and didnt make her convert.

When numbers are manageable  part of the orientation before being set loose in society is to tell immigrants and refugees what laws or local customs  are strictly  enforced, like u kill someone u will go to jail for a long time. Another one is that semi naked women are not prostitutes. Then theres very little problems.

Its also the case that the northern european and in particular scandinavian men, supposed to be the most feminist indoctrinated and advanced in equality are by far the worst offenders of travelling child sex tourists.



By the way, chinese are more, not less iphone addicted. They have message over the speaker in the subway stations every minute telling people to watch their step and dont look only at their mobile phone.

http://www.marieclaire.com/fashion/news/g3060/muslim-women-style-fashion/ (http://www.marieclaire.com/fashion/news/g3060/muslim-women-style-fashion/)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on September 25, 2015, 08:33:14 AM
What bullshit!  In the USA womens' right to vote has been around for less than 100 years.  Everyday in the US, more than three women are murdered by their husbands or boyfriends, and in 92% of all domestic violence incidents, crimes are committed by men against women. 31% of American women report being physically or sexually abused by a husband or boyfriend at some point in their lives.

The incarceration rate of the US is the highest in the world, at 716 per 100,000 of the national population, and in Texas the rate is double that. The US is one of only 36 countries to still use the death penalty.  Saudi Arabia has a murder rate of 0.8 per 100,000, the same as Germany, Denmark and Spain, while in the US the murder rate is 4.7.

I could go on and on - racism, sexism, drug addiction, crime.
Get this: on equality and human decency, THE US IS THE VERY WORST IN THE WORLD.



Unlike you, Palloy, I actually live in the USA. I know a number of very liberal women, some of whom are in my family and others who are not. They actually see the way Muslim families operate here and elsewhere, and they perceive it as backward and patriarchal. I am reporting what I've been told, by women who are very liberal on most issues. I'm not speaking for them.

They also perceive most Muslim women who wear the hijab to be weak, and they don't buy the arguments Muslim women make about what a positive thing it is to live in a world where they are "protected" and subservient. Most American women I know think that's an excuse, and that such women are looking for someone to take care of them so they don't have to function as responsible adult females.

Now I'll give my personal observations, because it just so happens I take care of a good many of these folks in my practice. I get to do things like braces on some thirty year old Muslim guy's 14 year old child bride, who comes in wearing the full burka. That's a real case, and she was pregnant long before I got finished. Everyone who deals with these people in person will tell you that the men treat the women like children at best, and as cattle at worst. You can believe what you like. I deal with it most days, and I have no axe to grind. I take care of all kinds of people, of all faiths, and I'll tell you I'm a great deal more tolerant than most Americans, for better or worse.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on September 25, 2015, 09:08:00 AM
By the way, chinese are more, not less iphone addicted

I thought about that after I said it. But they do have an older generation that remembers how to grow rice. We do not.

Most muslim women are sick of the stereotype and think they are valued more than western women.

I hear this one get trotted out all the time, and I view it as a spurious point of view. There are SOME independent high functioning Muslim women, but it looks to me like that's some kind of imagined ideal, and not the real world version. I'll admit the people I see are mostly not academics, or from rich families, or even university educated. (Well, the men are, but mostly NOT the women, in the town where I live and work.). I'm not saying ALL Muslim women fit the stereotype, but plenty of them fit it just fine.

What do u mean by human decency, lack of degeneracy? No rushing onto the stage topless at a christian conference, no counterparts to girls gone wild.?

No I mean the way groups of  Muslim men often gang rape women they happen on who are defenseless in public places, when they get the chance, because they don't have the same mores and cultural norms we do in the west. Are you saying that isn't a problem in Afghanistan, or Iraq, or...Sweden?

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape (http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape)

 Or any number of other places, because it is. I'm not making this shit up.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/03/uk-muslim-gangs-raped-non-muslim-girls-on-industrial-scale (http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/03/uk-muslim-gangs-raped-non-muslim-girls-on-industrial-scale)

I know the people who document this stuff are mostly racists. So what? It still happens.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: g on September 25, 2015, 09:09:24 AM
Hi Unc, Could not help being impressed by the first names of the gorgeous ladies. They were very new to me and as beautiful as the women.

Lubna, Faria, Summer, Malaika, Nafisa, were favorite names of the group.

Lubna Hassan impressed me most with her sun glasses and outfit, a lovely young lady, as they all were.  Thanks for an interesting out of the ordinary posting.

                                                     
                                            (http://mac.h-cdn.co/assets/15/30/480x721/lubna-hassan.jpg)

   
Lubna Hassan

"Growing up in a conservative Muslim household was always challenging, especially as a girl," says Hassan, 28. "There was always a frustration as to why I couldn't do and wear certain things, but now as an adult I do feel it all played a role in shaping who I am and how I dress. I wouldn't make the claim and say I'm the poster child for modesty but I'd like to think I've found a balance between what my religion asks of me and how I choose create my own style." (@lubnahassan)

   


Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Surly1 on September 25, 2015, 09:11:11 AM
What bullshit!  In the USA womens' right to vote has been around for less than 100 years.  Everyday in the US, more than three women are murdered by their husbands or boyfriends, and in 92% of all domestic violence incidents, crimes are committed by men against women. 31% of American women report being physically or sexually abused by a husband or boyfriend at some point in their lives.

The incarceration rate of the US is the highest in the world, at 716 per 100,000 of the national population, and in Texas the rate is double that. The US is one of only 36 countries to still use the death penalty.  Saudi Arabia has a murder rate of 0.8 per 100,000, the same as Germany, Denmark and Spain, while in the US the murder rate is 4.7.

I could go on and on - racism, sexism, drug addiction, crime.
Get this: on equality and human decency, THE US IS THE VERY WORST IN THE WORLD.



Unlike you, Palloy, I actually live in the USA. I know a number of very liberal women, some of whom are in my family and others who are not. They actually see the way Muslim families operate here and elsewhere, and they perceive it as backward and patriarchal. I am reporting what I've been told, by women who are very liberal on most issues. I'm not speaking for them.

They also perceive most Muslim women who wear the hijab to be weak, and they don't buy the arguments Muslim women make about what a positive thing it is to live in a world where they are "protected" and subservient. Most American women I know think that's an excuse, and that such women are looking for someone to take care of them so they don't have to function as responsible adult females.

Now I'll give my personal observations, because it just so happens I take care of a good many of these folks in my practice. I get to do things like braces on some thirty year old Muslim guy's 14 year old child bride, who comes in wearing the full burka. That's a real case, and she was pregnant long before I got finished. Everyone who deals with these people in person will tell you that the men treat the women like children at best, and as cattle at worst. You can believe what you like. I deal with it most days, and I have no axe to grind. I take care of all kinds of people, of all faiths, and I'll tell you I'm a great deal more tolerant than most Americans, for better or worse.

Get this: on equality and human decency, THE US IS THE VERY WORST IN THE WORLD.

What. The. Bleeding. Fuck?

My critique of the Empire of Chaos and other body of work here is on display for everyone, and while the violence and depravity we propagate overseas makes us all complicit, I have to disagree with that assessment. The US is a piker compared to some of our friends.

The Zionist Apartheid state just rushed into law a statute that will allow sniper fire and 4 year mandatory prison sentences against stone throwers, giving soldiers greater latitude to use live rounds against Palestinians throwing stones.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/25/israel-live-ammunition-measures (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/25/israel-live-ammunition-measures)
http://mondoweiss.net/2015/09/mandatory-sentences-throwers (http://mondoweiss.net/2015/09/mandatory-sentences-throwers)


Our good friends the Wahhabis in Saudi are on a spree: 100 beheadings in six months.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/18/100-beheadings-6-months-why-the-saudi-kingdom-is-on-an-execution-spree.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/18/100-beheadings-6-months-why-the-saudi-kingdom-is-on-an-execution-spree.html)

And who could forget how the funloving ISIS/ISIL/Daesh crowd offered some crucifixions as part of their PR campaign a couple of months ago.
http://heavy.com/news/2015/06/isis-islamic-state-crucifies-spy-crucifixion-crucify-uncensored-youtube-video/ (http://heavy.com/news/2015/06/isis-islamic-state-crucifies-spy-crucifixion-crucify-uncensored-youtube-video/)
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-crucifies-children-for-not-fasting-during-ramadan-in-syria-10338215.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-crucifies-children-for-not-fasting-during-ramadan-in-syria-10338215.html)

And the Saudis, not to be outdone, want to get in the crucifixion business as wekk:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/23/middleeast/saudi-arabia-ali-al-nimr-execution/ (http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/23/middleeast/saudi-arabia-ali-al-nimr-execution/)

Look as you might, you don't see photos like this in the US:
(http://shoebat.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/10565054_657914304287102_727657990338910024_n.jpg)

Our work looks like this, and we keep it safely overseas among the browner sorts:
(http://photos1.blogger.com/img/92/3568/400/0,1020,252726,00%5B1%5D.jpg) (http://cdns.yournewswire.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/iraq_dead_child_460.jpg)

Now if you want to argue we lead the league in hypocrisy, then I readily agree. But Eddie's assessment that Islam is 1000 years behind the west is generously conservative, IMO.
As for hypocrisy, the US welcomes the leadership of Saudi Arabia to the UN Human Rights Council and is part of the committee that helps choose the council’s human-rights experts. The UN Human Rights Council is already a debased body including Cuba, Venezuela, China, Pakistan, Qatar, and Vietnam. Saudi Arabia providing a leadership role for this body is an affront to good sense and beggars reason.
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/09/saudi-arabia-beheading-crucifixion-nimr/407221/ (http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/09/saudi-arabia-beheading-crucifixion-nimr/407221/)

Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on September 25, 2015, 10:00:13 AM
But Eddie's assessment that Islam is 1000 years behind the west is generously conservative, IMO.

1000 years?  No way, 150 at most.  White "Amerikans" were out there Scalping First Nations people and raping their women well into the 1800s.  Slavery of black people was legal through 1864 or so in half the country.  The Spanish Inquisition of the Holy Roman Catholic Church was only formally ended in 1834.

Child brides?  The Mormons do this all the time on the Q/T to this day.  No, women do not have to wear burkhas here, rather they are objectified in pornographic magazines and more often these days on websites than the paper version of the Playboy era.

Far as the relative brutality of beheadings and crucifixions versus death by joystick or death by napalm, I don't see a whole lot of difference.  1000 years ahead in technology of death dispensation is all the difference there.  Certainly, death by Atomic Bomb gives new meaning to the word brutality.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-CA9WZvp5EZQ/VZOR4Mk7t0I/AAAAAAAATVU/f-AOD_IoXpE/s1600/hiroshima1.gif)

That was 1945, 70 years ago, not 1000.  And we all know that the Death From Above is being dropped in Afghanistan as we speak.

You cannot make a convincing case that Muslims are any more brutal than Christian or Atheist White folks.  The only difference there is the technology of death dispensation.

Far as Women's Rights are concerned, on the surface and in the middle to upper class there is a veneer of equality, but rape is a systemic issue particularly in the underclass.

All in all, I don't see a whole lot of difference between these cultures.  They all are sick and brutal in their own ways.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on September 25, 2015, 10:31:36 AM
But Eddie's assessment that Islam is 1000 years behind the west is generously conservative, IMO.

1000 years?  No way, 150 at most.  White "Amerikans" were out there Scalping First Nations people and raping their women well into the 1800s.  Slavery of black people was legal through 1864 or so in half the country.  The Spanish Inquisition of the Holy Roman Catholic Church was only formally ended in 1834.

Child brides?  The Mormons do this all the time on the Q/T to this day.  No, women do not have to wear burkhas here, rather they are objectified in pornographic magazines and more often these days on websites than the paper version of the Playboy era.

Far as the relative brutality of beheadings and crucifixions versus death by joystick or death by napalm, I don't see a whole lot of difference.  1000 years ahead in technology of death dispensation is all the difference there.  Certainly, death by Atomic Bomb gives new meaning to the word brutality.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-CA9WZvp5EZQ/VZOR4Mk7t0I/AAAAAAAATVU/f-AOD_IoXpE/s1600/hiroshima1.gif)

That was 1945, 70 years ago, not 1000.  And we all know that the Death From Above is being dropped in Afghanistan as we speak.

You cannot make a convincing case that Muslims are any more brutal than Christian or Atheist White folks.  The only difference there is the technology of death dispensation.

Far as Women's Rights are concerned, on the surface and in the middle to upper class there is a veneer of equality, but rape is a systemic issue particularly in the underclass.

All in all, I don't see a whole lot of difference between these cultures.  They all are sick and brutal in their own ways.

RE

You might not see a difference, but there is a big difference, much more of a difference than between anglos and hispanics. More than the difference between whites and blacks in this country, even.

Soon you will see exactly what I'm talking about, because it will be very self-evident. Hide and watch.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on September 25, 2015, 10:49:13 AM
You might not see a difference, but there is a big difference, much more of a difference than between anglos and hispanics. More than the difference between whites and blacks in this country, even.

Soon you will see exactly what I'm talking about, because it will be very self-evident. Hide and watch.

I don't expect a huge migration of Muslims to Alaska.  It's tough enough to get to South America and walk your way up to Texas.  You would need to be one tough Muslim to walk it all the way across the Yukon Territory.

Far as self-evident violence goes in the Islam home countries, this is violence born of resource depletion.  Trust me, here in Amerika when we got similar resource problems, there will be plenty of violence.  Hide and Watch.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on September 25, 2015, 11:02:57 AM
I don't expect a huge migration of Muslims to Alaska

They're going to build a concentration camp refugee center in the Mat-Su Valley.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on September 25, 2015, 11:32:11 AM
I don't expect a huge migration of Muslims to Alaska

The're going to build a concentration camp refugee center in the Mat-Su Valley.

They'll have one in Austin first. :P

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on September 25, 2015, 02:49:21 PM
By the way, chinese are more, not less iphone addicted

I thought about that after I said it. But they do have an older generation that remembers how to grow rice. We do not.

Most muslim women are sick of the stereotype and think they are valued more than western women.

I hear this one get trotted out all the time, and I view it as a spurious point of view. There are SOME independent high functioning Muslim women, but it looks to me like that's some kind of imagined ideal, and not the real world version. I'll admit the people I see are mostly not academics, or from rich families, or even university educated. (Well, the men are, but mostly NOT the women, in the town where I live and work.). I'm not saying ALL Muslim women fit the stereotype, but plenty of them fit it just fine.

What do u mean by human decency, lack of degeneracy? No rushing onto the stage topless at a christian conference, no counterparts to girls gone wild.?

No I mean the way groups of  Muslim men often gang rape women they happen on who are defenseless in public places, when they get the chance, because they don't have the same mores and cultural norms we do in the west. Are you saying that isn't a problem in Afghanistan, or Iraq, or...Sweden?

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape (http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape)

 Or any number of other places, because it is. I'm not making this shit up.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/03/uk-muslim-gangs-raped-non-muslim-girls-on-industrial-scale (http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/03/uk-muslim-gangs-raped-non-muslim-girls-on-industrial-scale)

I know the people who document this stuff are mostly racists. So what? It still happens.

U mentioned sweden, so did i.

I never said those things dont happen In fact i pointed out that proper orientation prevents it happening where people would get punished. What people will do when they can get away with it is another story and no group has any moral high ground. The swedes go to poor asian places to get away with their sublimated sameness. If u r an american u don a uniform and do it. I doubt any of the muslims i knew have ever rape anyone and their wives are not an imagined ideal. 

U r disgusted by a 14 yr old being married and they might be disgusted  by what is fed to 14 yr olds on mtv. My grandmother was married at 14 and had 5 children. She would have felt sorry for a girl who had terminations instead and a series of partners, who in the end had the company of cats instead of great grandchildren.

 Mother in law is a swahili muslim and father in law italian catholic. I met her brother ali,  a relatively poor villager in kenya, his son climbed a coconut tree for me. Lovely people.  So not everyone i met is a naturalised immigrant pharmacist , engineer, doctor, taxi  driver or businessman.

U shoukd get to know some, u would find they are all different kinds just like us.


 
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on September 25, 2015, 03:42:19 PM
I don't expect a huge migration of Muslims to Alaska

The're going to build a concentration camp refugee center in the Mat-Su Valley.

They'll have one in Austin first. :P

RE

They dont just get to migrate where they want ,  if they apply for housing they go where they sent and that could be anywhere.

Can anyone tell me if really rich chinese have messed up the business immigration program in other countries?

Here it used to be if u brought $1m with a plan to start some enterprise they could immigrate. Now they need $5m and have to put it in some investments the govt decides.
Title: The Refugee Crisis: Separating the Conspiracies from The Conspiracy™
Post by: RE on September 26, 2015, 05:26:52 AM
http://www.greanvillepost.com/2015/09/25/the-refugee-crisis-separating-the-conspiracies-from-the-conspiracy/ (http://www.greanvillepost.com/2015/09/25/the-refugee-crisis-separating-the-conspiracies-from-the-conspiracy/)

EYE ON THE MEDIA: Annals of Great Mendacity

by ERIC DRAITSER

(http://www.greanvillepost.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/syria-refugees02-jpg-20150903.jpg)

As the refugee crisis in Europe has come to dominate western media headlines, it has predictably given rise to a complex web of theories, analyses, and politically and ideologically charged omissions and distortions. The corporate propagandists of ‘acceptable journalism’ have presented the issue in a purely humanitarian and cultural light, with little to no political context in terms of the refugee influx as the fruit of imperial wars in Africa and Asia.

These bastions of journalistic truth have managed to flush down the memory hole nearly all evidence published in their own pages of the overlapping strategies of regional and international powers that have conspired to wage war in Syria, openly colluded in wars of aggression in Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Yemen, and prolonged and capitalized from seemingly endless conflicts in Somalia and elsewhere. All of these very conscious decisions by the ruling class and its political establishment in the US-NATO (plus Israel and GCC), have led directly to the “crisis” as it exists today. And yet, if they’re mentioned at all, it is merely in passing bemusement, the way one might refer to a stupid comment made after one too many tequila shots at a margarita happy hour.

The refugee issue then becomes less a product of political conflict, and more a cultural battlefield with trenches dug along racial and ethnic lines: the struggle to maintain European ‘civilization’ against the barbaric hordes of uncivilized brown-skinned invaders arriving as a “swarm,” to borrow the unintentionally honest expression used by British Prime Minister David Cameron to describe the refugees. This is of course the neocolonial, supremacist position espoused most vocally by the far right throughout Europe, from Marine Le Pen and the Front National in France, to Hungary’s conservative Prime Minister Viktor Orban whose heavy-handed tactics – building fences, mobilizing troops and the unemployed, convicts, and fascists of various stripes – to block the refugee influx, have been both praised and condemned by various elements in Europe.

While there is clearly an attempt to rewrite recent history to scrub the role of imperialism in fostering this crisis, there is also a deafening silence on the role of certain regional and international actors in manipulating it for political advantage. For instance, there is virtually no discussion in mainstream (and much of the alternative) media regarding the role of Turkey in redirecting refugees from its country to Greece and into Europe. There has yet to be even one substantive investigative piece in any establishment media on the collusion between the human traffickers of the Islamic State and other terror groups and criminal gangs, and their backers in the US, Europe, and Middle East. Equally, there has been virtually zero discussion of how the strategy of manipulated migration is part of a broader effort to further the goals of the Empire in the Global South.
Contrary to the script disseminated by the corporate media, Assad enjoys widespread support in Syria.

Contrary to the script disseminated by the corporate media, Assad enjoys widespread support in Syria.
Indeed, such questions and debates are critical to understanding the political, economic, and socio-cultural implications of this issue. However, in asking such questions, one almost immediately encounters the virulent strains of racism, bigotry, and outright fascism whose pernicious influence has become pervasive in nominally anti-imperialist circles. Sometimes such ideology is manifested in centuries-old reactionary conspiracy theories in which cabals of Jews, Jesuits, freemasons, or reptilian overlords (as the case may be) conspire to destroy white Christendom. Other times it is simply a rehashing of the ‘barbarian invader’ trope, a product of both European history and good old fashioned Euro-supremacism.

Why are these questions critical? Simply put, the discourse on the refugee crisis is essential to undermining the entire imperialist agenda in Africa and the Middle East. Leftists must be cautious not to take the bait on the liberal versus conservative culture war narrative rooted in a neocolonial worldview, while at the same time remaining vigilant about both the real geopolitical machinations driving the crisis, and the fascistic memes that pass for “telling the truth” in the quagmire of social media and online activism.

A Conspiracy of Silence

There are two distinct ways in which the corporate media, in its role as propaganda appendage of the Empire, has deliberately confused the refugee issue. On the one hand, they have shielded the narrative from penetration by uncomfortable questions regarding the role of the West and its proxies in initiating, fomenting, and expanding the wars in Syria, Libya, Yemen, Afghanistan, and beyond. By doing so, the media removes the refugees from their politico-historical context, transforming them into so-called “migrants” – an elusive term designed to obscure the reality of who these people are, and why they’re desperately trying to get into Europe – as if they’re simply poor people looking for work, rather than victims of imperialism looking to protect their families and escape wars and destabilization initiated by the West.

On the other hand, the media have simply refused to critically examine exactly the relationship between the flow of refugees and the policies, both overt and covert, of the countries participating either directly or indirectly in these wars. There is virtually no investigation into the facilitation of refugee travel by the Turkish government despite the literally countless reports of the Islamic State, al-Qaeda groups, and myriad criminal organizations engaging in human trafficking in Syria and Libya specifically.
“The corporate propagandists of ‘acceptable journalism’ have presented the issue in a purely humanitarian and cultural light, with little to no political context…”

With respect to Syria, Turkish intelligence is directly implicated in collusion with jihadis of the Nusra and ISIS variety, smuggling both fighters and weapons into Syria in the ongoing attempt to implement regime change against the Syrian government. According to Cumhuriyet, a popular Turkish daily:

    a group of jihadis were first brought to the Turkish border town of Reyhanli on January 9, 2014 from Atme refugee camp in Syria in a clandestine operation. From there, they were smuggled into Tal Abyad, a border town used by ISIS as a gateway from Turkey, on two buses rented by the MIT [Turkish intelligence]…which it said were stopped by police a day after the operation following a tip-off that they were smuggling drugs into Syria. It was revealed that the buses had been used to smuggle jihadis after investigators found bullets, weapons and ammunition abandoned in the buses. The drivers of the buses, who were briefly arrested, said in their testimony they were told that they were carrying Syrian refugees and the vehicles were rented by the MIT.

Two important points should be immediately apparent in reading the reports. First, and perhaps most obvious, is the direct relationship and contact between Turkish intelligence and terrorist fighters intent on waging war in Syria. Secondly, and most important to this examination, is the fact that, as the bus drivers’ testimony clearly indicates, they were told by Turkish authorities that they were carrying Syrian refugees. It seems then that Turkish intelligence openly facilitates the transit of refugees throughout Turkey, and has a direct chain of custody over their movements. Taken in tandem with the knowledge that Turkish intelligence is also working with ISIS and Nusra then, it is not at all far-fetched to assume that they are also colluding in the human trafficking networks.
Those Who Make the Wounds—Protected by Their Media
TAKEAWAY PRECIS “These bastions of journalistic truth have managed to flush down the memory hole nearly all evidence published in their own pages of the overlapping strategies of regional and international powers that have conspired to wage war in Syria, openly colluded in wars of aggression in Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Yemen, and prolonged and capitalized from seemingly endless conflicts in Somalia and elsewhere. All of these very conscious decisions by the ruling class and its political establishment in the US-NATO (plus Israel and GCC), have led directly to the “crisis” as it exists today…”

 

This is an important point because it is these smuggling organizations which are directly implicated in funding ISIS in places like Libya. According to the Global Initiative Against Transnational Organized Crime, the value of refugee smuggling in Libya alone reached $323 million in 2014, “dwarf[ing] any existing trafficking and smuggling businesses in the region… [it]has particularly strengthened groups with a terrorist agenda, including the Islamic State.”
John McCain proudly standing with Abdelhakim Belhadj, with the equally reprehensible Lindsey Graham in tow.

John McCain proudly standing with Abdelhakim Belhadj, with the equally reprehensible Lindsey Graham in tow.

But while media have noted this important phenomenon, they have almost entirely buried the fact that those same ISIS (Islamic State) networks in Libya are being run by US-NATO asset Abdelhakim Belhadj, the man touted as a hero and great revolutionary by the imperialists in their war on Libya in 2011. Indeed, Belhadj served the US cause in Libya so well that he can be seen receiving accolades from Sen. John McCain, never one to shy away from a photo op with a terrorist or fascist. Belhadj was initially rewarded after the fall of Gaddafi with the post of military commander of Tripoli, though he was forced to give way to a more politically palatable “transitional government” which has since evaporated leaving in its wake ISIS, run by the very same Belhadj.

It must be said that the refugee issue is far bigger than just US-NATO wars in Libya and Syria. Indeed, the refugees have come from countries that have been directly impacted by other imperialist policies, such as the ongoing economic war against Eritrea. As WikiLeaks cables revealed, there has been a concerted effort by the US to promote and facilitate the migration of Eritrean youth to the West using the lure of “educational opportunities” funded by the US government. Many of these young Eritreans, duped as they are, are then sadly caught up in the same human trafficking networks, often becoming victims of kidnapping or worse.

Similarly, many of the refugees come from Afghanistan and Iraq, two countries still being devastated by US wars of aggression. They come from Pakistan where terror groups have waged genocidal campaigns against Shia muslims of the Hazara ethnic group, among others. They come from Somalia, a country still embroiled in a seemingly endless state of chaos facilitated by US policy. In short, the refugees are unmistakably victims of US-NATO (plus Israel and GCC) imperial policies. And there is almost no mention of any of this.

What does get traction in the corporate media however is the potential need for still more war, this time to “help the refugees.” In short, the political and military establishment in the US makes the insidious, and deeply cynical, argument that the only way to help the people of Syria is to bomb them and destroy their country further, just as it argued in Libya in 2011. And again, there is almost no critical debate in the major media. Essentially, the corporate press acts as the de facto public relations wing of the ruling class, setting the parameters of how the refugee issue is to be discussed. As Noam Chomsky famously said, the media acts to “strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum.”

Racism, Refugees, and the Rothschild-Jew-NWO-Illuminati-Muslim-Freemason-Reptilian Conspiracy™

As soon as one begins to interrogate the issues by asking questions such as those above, immediately one is confronted by the most exasperatingly tiresome, hackneyed, and utterly discredited conspiracy theories which still worm their way into far too much online discourse. In fact, according to such internet buffoonery, nearly every political development and conflict in the world can be chalked up to some illusory master plan enacted generations ago by a secret cabal of [insert demonized group of choice], rather than the complex political, economic, and social factors that give rise to human phenomena; so, too, with the refugee issue.
“Essentially, the corporate press acts as the de facto public relations wing of the ruling class, setting the parameters of how the refugee issue is to be discussed…”

The conversation often can sound something like, “Have you noticed that the Muslims and Africans flooding into Europe are mostly young males? It’s not a coincidence that the Jewish globalist plan is to destroy national boundaries and pervert the white Christian world with a fifth column in the quest for total global control through the destruction of nations and consolidation of the rule of Jewish bankers. #WhiteGenocide.” One could be forgiven for thinking that that is satire and hyperbole for comedic effect; sadly, no. That is taken almost verbatim from multiple memes and various written pieces circulating in the morass of social media.

Normally, one would be quick to dismiss such idiocy as simply the childish ramblings of fascist nitwits whose study of history is confined to the Alex Jones School for Racist Lunacy. However, it is important to note that such discourse has an increasingly strong presence in nominally anti-imperialist and leftist circles, where opposition to Israel’s genocidal policies, and the supremacist ideology of Zionism, provide cover for outright fascist tendencies to cloak themselves in the flag of anti-Zionism. When the unhinged blather of David Icke and Alex Jones becomes acceptable discourse, it is cause for any anti-imperialist to worry. For this reason, the refugee issue has caused many of us to worry.

The late author and journalist Alex Cockburn, a co-editor of CounterPunch for many years, in examining the allure of conspiracism generally (9-11 trutherism specifically), brilliantly wrote in 2011:

    [Conspiracism has] penetrated deep into the American left…These days a dwindling number of leftists learn their political economy from Marx. Into the theoretical and strategic void has crept a diffuse, peripatetic conspiracist view of the world that tends to locate ruling class devilry not in the crises of capital accumulation, or the falling rate of profit, or inter-imperial competition, but in locale (the Bohemian Grove, Bilderberg, Ditchley, Davos) or supposedly “rogue” agencies, with the CIA still at the head of the list.

Though speaking of 9-11, Cockburn could easily have broadened that critique to include the growing number of people on both left and right, who subscribe to the Rothschild-Illuminati-New World Order worldview (if it can be called that). His argument, entirely correct in my view, is that in place of real historical-materialist analysis, or substantive analysis of any kind, be it anti-capitalist or the like, a sort of quasi-mystical belief in irrational and unseen forces has taken root in the collective imagination of many so-called activists.

Cockburn quoted philosopher and CounterPunch contributor Michael Neumann who succinctly noted that such thinking “probably comes from the decline of Western power. Deep down, almost everyone, across the political spectrum, is locked in a bigotry which can only attribute that decline to some irrational or supernatural power. The result is the ascendency of magic over common sense, let alone reason.” Indeed, it is bigotry, or perhaps more correctly a reactionary racist and fascistic worldview, that owes much to tsarist and Nazi propaganda, and the right wing extremist scribes who preserved it in the post-war period.

Such thinking is, sadly, not only alive, but thriving, in allegedly anti-imperialist circles. No doubt these memes have been wet-nursed by Zionism and Israeli policies which, in point of fact, are fascist and in many ways indistinguishable from the Nazism they allegedly abhor, as this author has argued numerous times. In effect, Zionism has contributed in no small part to the proliferation and normalization of fascist sentiment on both left and right.

And it is precisely this sort of thinking that is now coloring the debate on refugees. Suddenly, the refugee crisis becomes a conspiracy to destroy ‘White Europe,’ rather than an outgrowth of imperialist wars undertaken by the US-NATO powers. Suddenly, the refugees become invaders, while the aggressors become the victims. This inversion is at once insidious and incredibly disheartening for those activists and analysts (this author included) who dedicate much of their time and effort to exposing the machinations of the Empire and its hegemonic agenda.

To again quote Cockburn, “There are plenty of real conspiracies…Why make up fake ones?” Exactly! The conspiracy of regional and international actors needs to be unraveled, the evidence made public, the guilty prosecuted for war crimes. The conspiracy of silence in the corporate media needs to be exposed for what it is: still more evidence of how the propaganda matrix actually operates, how it serves the Empire. These are the conspiracies that matter. Let’s leave the Rothschilds, Illuminati, and lizard people to the darker recesses of internet irrelevance.

While the racists cry from the mountaintops that their precious White Europe is under siege, let us recognize that the discourse of anti-imperialism is also under siege; that the anti-imperialist, anti-capitalist, anti-fascist space must be reclaimed and must be defended, whatever the cost.

Eric Draitser is the founder of StopImperialism.org and host of CounterPunch Radio. He is an independent geopolitical analyst based in New York City. You can reach him at ericdraitser@gmail.com.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: WHD on September 26, 2015, 09:14:41 AM
While the conservative seems bent on facilitating race/holy war, the liberal seems broken, in agonizing about a welcome with open arms, as if every and all refugees should be treated as sacrosanct, like mixing cultures will only ever result in a happy coming together/harmonizing.

It's like the whole world is going crazy, under the pressures of overshoot, and one can't find common cause anywhere anymore, in any political/ideological/religious context, that doesn't seem mass-delusional.

Meanwhile, the two halves of one humanity tilting away from each other, pretty much assure total chaos will reign eventually.

WHD

Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on September 26, 2015, 02:29:24 PM
Meanwhile, the two halves of one humanity tilting away from each other, pretty much assure total chaos will reign eventually.

Chaos for a while, then we will be reborn in a Better Tomorrow.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on September 26, 2015, 09:12:16 PM
Quote
as if every and all refugees should be treated as sacrosanct

By UN Convention, all refugees must have their request for asylum evaluated.  That doesn't make them "illegals" or "immigrants".  It's part of that "human decency" thing.
Title: The Refugee Crisis: Separating the Conspiracies from The Conspiracy™
Post by: Surly1 on September 29, 2015, 08:32:53 AM
A thought-provoking article. Long; pack a lunch; but worthwhile.

When the unhinged blather of David Icke and Alex Jones becomes acceptable discourse, it is cause for any anti-imperialist to worry. For this reason, the refugee issue has caused many of us to worry.

The Refugee Crisis: Separating the Conspiracies from The Conspiracy™

AUTHOR 

Screen Shot 2015-08-22 at 7.41.15 PMEYE ON THE MEDIA: Annals of Great Mendacity

 

syria-refugees02-jpg-20150903

As the refugee crisis in Europe has come to dominate western media headlines, it has predictably given rise to a complex web of theories, analyses, and politically and ideologically charged omissions and distortions. The corporate propagandists of ‘acceptable journalism’ have presented the issue in a purely humanitarian and cultural light, with little to no political context in terms of the refugee influx as the fruit of imperial wars in Africa and Asia.

These bastions of journalistic truth have managed to flush down the memory hole nearly all evidence published in their own pages of the overlapping strategies of regional and international powers that have conspired to wage war in Syria, openly colluded in wars of aggression in Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Yemen, and prolonged and capitalized from seemingly endless conflicts in Somalia and elsewhere. All of these very conscious decisions by the ruling class and its political establishment in the US-NATO (plus Israel and GCC), have led directly to the “crisis” as it exists today. And yet, if they’re mentioned at all, it is merely in passing bemusement, the way one might refer to a stupid comment made after one too many tequila shots at a margarita happy hour.

The refugee issue then becomes less a product of political conflict, and more a cultural battlefield with trenches dug along racial and ethnic lines: the struggle to maintain European ‘civilization’ against the barbaric hordes of uncivilized brown-skinned invaders arriving as a “swarm,” to borrow the unintentionally honest expression used by British Prime Minister David Cameron to describethe refugees. This is of course the neocolonial, supremacist position espoused most vocally by the far right throughout Europe, from Marine Le Pen and the Front National in France, to Hungary’s conservative Prime Minister Viktor Orban whose heavy-handed tactics – building fences, mobilizing troops and the unemployed, convicts, and fascists of various stripes – to block the refugee influx, have been both praised and condemned by various elements in Europe.

While there is clearly an attempt to rewrite recent history to scrub the role of imperialism in fostering this crisis, there is also a deafening silence on the role of certain regional and international actors in manipulating it for political advantage. For instance, there is virtually no discussion in mainstream (and much of the alternative) media regarding the role of Turkey in redirecting refugees from its country to Greece and into Europe. There has yet to be even one substantive investigative piece in any establishment media on the collusion between the human traffickers of the Islamic State and other terror groups and criminal gangs, and their backers in the US, Europe, and Middle East. Equally, there has been virtually zero discussion of how the strategy of manipulated migration is part of a broader effort to further the goals of the Empire in the Global South.

Contrary to the script disseminated by the corporate media, Assad enjoys widespread support in Syria.

Contrary to the script disseminated by the corporate media, Assad enjoys widespread support in Syria.

Indeed, such questions and debates are critical to understanding the political, economic, and socio-cultural implications of this issue. However, in asking such questions, one almost immediately encounters the virulent strains of racism, bigotry, and outright fascism whose pernicious influence has become pervasive in nominally anti-imperialist circles. Sometimes such ideology is manifested in centuries-old reactionary conspiracy theories in which cabals of Jews, Jesuits, freemasons, or reptilian overlords (as the case may be) conspire to destroy white Christendom. Other times it is simply a rehashing of the ‘barbarian invader’ trope, a product of both European history and good old fashioned Euro-supremacism.

 

Why are these questions critical? Simply put, the discourse on the refugee crisis is essential to undermining the entire imperialist agenda in Africa and the Middle East. Leftists must be cautious not to take the bait on the liberal versus conservative culture war narrative rooted in a neocolonial worldview, while at the same time remaining vigilant about both the real geopolitical machinations driving the crisis, and the fascistic memes that pass for “telling the truth” in the quagmire of social media and online activism.

A Conspiracy of Silence

There are two distinct ways in which the corporate media, in its role as propaganda appendage of the Empire, has deliberately confused the refugee issue. On the one hand, they have shielded the narrative from penetration by uncomfortable questions regarding the role of the West and its proxies in initiating, fomenting, and expanding the wars in Syria, Libya, Yemen, Afghanistan, and beyond. By doing so, the media removes the refugees from their politico-historical context, transforming them into so-called “migrants” – an elusive term designed to obscure the reality of who these people are, and why they’re desperately trying to get into Europe – as if they’re simply poor people looking for work, rather than victims of imperialism looking to protect their families and escape wars and destabilization initiated by the West.

On the other hand, the media have simply refused to critically examine exactly the relationship between the flow of refugees and the policies, both overt and covert, of the countries participating either directly or indirectly in these wars. There is virtually no investigation into the facilitation of refugee travel by the Turkish government despite the literally countless reports of the Islamic State, al-Qaeda groups, and myriad criminal organizations engaging in human trafficking in Syria and Libya specifically.

“The corporate propagandists of ‘acceptable journalism’ have presented the issue in a purely humanitarian and cultural light, with little to no political context…”

With respect to Syria, Turkish intelligence is directly implicated in collusion with jihadis of the Nusra and ISIS variety, smuggling both fighters and weapons into Syria in the ongoing attempt to implement regime change against the Syrian government. According to Cumhuriyet, a popular Turkish daily:

a group of jihadis were first brought to the Turkish border town of Reyhanli on January 9, 2014 from Atme refugee camp in Syria in a clandestine operation. From there, they were smuggled into Tal Abyad, a border town used by ISIS as a gateway from Turkey, on two buses rented by the MIT [Turkish intelligence]…which it said were stopped by police a day after the operation following a tip-off that they were smuggling drugs into Syria. It was revealed that the buses had been used to smuggle jihadis after investigators found bullets, weapons and ammunition abandoned in the buses. The drivers of the buses, who were briefly arrested, said in their testimony they were told that they were carrying Syrian refugees and the vehicles were rented by the MIT.

Two important points should be immediately apparent in reading the reports. First, and perhaps most obvious, is the direct relationship and contact between Turkish intelligence and terrorist fighters intent on waging war in Syria. Secondly, and most important to this examination, is the fact that, as the bus drivers’ testimony clearly indicates, they were told by Turkish authorities that they were carrying Syrian refugees. It seems then that Turkish intelligence openly facilitates the transit of refugees throughout Turkey, and has a direct chain of custody over their movements. Taken in tandem with the knowledge that Turkish intelligence is also working with ISIS and Nusra then, it is not at all far-fetched to assume that they are also colluding in the human trafficking networks.

Those Who Make the Wounds—Protected by Their Media
TAKEAWAY PRECIS “These bastions of journalistic truth have managed to flush down the memory hole nearly all evidence published in their own pages of the overlapping strategies of regional and international powers that have conspired to wage war in Syria, openly colluded in wars of aggression in Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Yemen, and prolonged and capitalized from seemingly endless conflicts in Somalia and elsewhere. All of these very conscious decisions by the ruling class and its political establishment in the US-NATO (plus Israel and GCC), have led directly to the “crisis” as it exists today…”

 

This is an important point because it is these smuggling organizations which are directly implicated in funding ISIS in places like Libya. According to the Global Initiative Against Transnational Organized Crime, the value of refugee smuggling in Libya alone reached $323 million in 2014, “dwarf[ing] any existing trafficking and smuggling businesses in the region… [it]has particularly strengthened groups with a terrorist agenda, including the Islamic State.”

John McCain proudly standing with Abdelhakim Belhadj, with the equally reprehensible Lindsey Graham in tow.

John McCain proudly standing with Abdelhakim Belhadj, with the equally reprehensible Lindsey Graham in tow.

But while media have noted this important phenomenon, they have almost entirely buried the fact that those same ISIS (Islamic State) networks in Libya are being run by US-NATO asset Abdelhakim Belhadj, the man touted as a hero and great revolutionary by the imperialists in their war on Libya in 2011. Indeed, Belhadj served the US cause in Libya so well that he can be seen receiving accolades from Sen. John McCain, never one to shy away from a photo op with a terrorist or fascist. Belhadj was initially rewarded after the fall of Gaddafi with the post of military commander of Tripoli, though he was forced to give way to a more politically palatable “transitional government” which has since evaporated leaving in its wake ISIS, run by the very same Belhadj.

It must be said that the refugee issue is far bigger than just US-NATO wars in Libya and Syria. Indeed, the refugees have come from countries that have been directly impacted by other imperialist policies, such as the ongoing economic war against Eritrea. As WikiLeaks cablesrevealed, there has been a concerted effort by the US to promote and facilitate the migration of Eritrean youth to the West using the lure of “educational opportunities” funded by the US government. Many of these young Eritreans, duped as they are, are then sadly caught up in the same human trafficking networks, often becoming victims of kidnapping or worse.

Similarly, many of the refugees come from Afghanistan and Iraq, two countries still being devastated by US wars of aggression. They come from Pakistan where terror groups have waged genocidal campaigns against Shia muslims of the Hazara ethnic group, among others. They come from Somalia, a country still embroiled in a seemingly endless state of chaos facilitated by US policy. In short, the refugees are unmistakably victims of US-NATO (plus Israel and GCC) imperial policies. And there is almost no mention of any of this.

What does get traction in the corporate media however is the potential need for still more war, this time to “help the refugees.” In short, the political and military establishment in the US makes the insidious, and deeply cynical, argument that the only way to help the people of Syria is to bomb them and destroy their country further, just as it argued in Libya in 2011. And again, there is almost no critical debate in the major media. Essentially, the corporate press acts as the de facto public relations wing of the ruling class, setting the parameters of how the refugee issue is to be discussed. As Noam Chomsky famously said, the media acts to “strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum.”

Racism, Refugees, and the Rothschild-Jew-NWO-Illuminati-Muslim-Freemason-Reptilian Conspiracy™

As soon as one begins to interrogate the issues by asking questions such as those above, immediately one is confronted by the most exasperatingly tiresome, hackneyed, and utterly discredited conspiracy theories which still worm their way into far too much online discourse. In fact, according to such internet buffoonery, nearly every political development and conflict in the world can be chalked up to some illusory master plan enacted generations ago by a secret cabal of [insert demonized group of choice], rather than the complex political, economic, and social factors that give rise to human phenomena; so, too, with the refugee issue.

“Essentially, the corporate press acts as the de facto public relations wing of the ruling class, setting the parameters of how the refugee issue is to be discussed…”

The conversation often can sound something like, “Have you noticed that the Muslims and Africans flooding into Europe are mostly young males? It’s not a coincidence that the Jewish globalist plan is to destroy national boundaries and pervert the white Christian world with a fifth column in the quest for total global control through the destruction of nations and consolidation of the rule of Jewish bankers. #WhiteGenocide.” One could be forgiven for thinking that that is satire and hyperbole for comedic effect; sadly, no. That is taken almost verbatim from multiple memes and various written pieces circulating in the morass of social media.

Normally, one would be quick to dismiss such idiocy as simply the childish ramblings of fascist nitwits whose study of history is confined to the Alex Jones School for Racist Lunacy. However, it is important to note that such discourse has an increasingly strong presence in nominally anti-imperialist and leftist circles, where opposition to Israel’s genocidal policies, and the supremacist ideology of Zionism, provide cover for outright fascist tendencies to cloak themselves in the flag of anti-Zionism. When the unhinged blather of David Icke and Alex Jones becomes acceptable discourse, it is cause for any anti-imperialist to worry. For this reason, the refugee issue has caused many of us to worry.

The late author and journalist Alex Cockburn, a co-editor of CounterPunch for many years, in examining the allure of conspiracism generally (9-11 trutherism specifically), brilliantly wrote in 2011:

[Conspiracism has] penetrated deep into the American left…These days a dwindling number of leftists learn their political economy from Marx. Into the theoretical and strategic void has crept a diffuse, peripatetic conspiracist view of the world that tends to locate ruling class devilry not in the crises of capital accumulation, or the falling rate of profit, or inter-imperial competition, but in locale (the Bohemian Grove, Bilderberg, Ditchley, Davos) or supposedly “rogue” agencies, with the CIA still at the head of the list.

 

Though speaking of 9-11, Cockburn could easily have broadened that critique to include the growing number of people on both left and right, who subscribe to the Rothschild-Illuminati-New World Order worldview (if it can be called that). His argument, entirely correct in my view, is that in place of real historical-materialist analysis, or substantive analysis of any kind, be it anti-capitalist or the like, a sort of quasi-mystical belief in irrational and unseen forces has taken root in the collective imagination of many so-called activists.

Cockburn quoted philosopher and CounterPunch contributor Michael Neumann who succinctly noted that such thinking “probably comes from the decline of Western power. Deep down, almost everyone, across the political spectrum, is locked in a bigotry which can only attribute that decline to some irrational or supernatural power. The result is the ascendency of magic over common sense, let alone reason.” Indeed, it is bigotry, or perhaps more correctly a reactionary racist and fascistic worldview, that owes much to tsarist and Nazi propaganda, and the right wing extremist scribes who preserved it in the post-war period.

Such thinking is, sadly, not only alive, but thriving, in allegedly anti-imperialist circles. No doubt these memes have been wet-nursed by Zionism and Israeli policies which, in point of fact, are fascist and in many ways indistinguishable from the Nazism they allegedly abhor, as this author hasargued numerous times. In effect, Zionism has contributed in no small part to the proliferation and normalization of fascist sentiment on both left and right.

And it is precisely this sort of thinking that is now coloring the debate on refugees. Suddenly, the refugee crisis becomes a conspiracy to destroy ‘White Europe,’ rather than an outgrowth of imperialist wars undertaken by the US-NATO powers. Suddenly, the refugees become invaders, while the aggressors become the victims. This inversion is at once insidious and incredibly disheartening for those activists and analysts (this author included) who dedicate much of their time and effort to exposing the machinations of the Empire and its hegemonic agenda.

To again quote Cockburn, “There are plenty of real conspiracies…Why make up fake ones?” Exactly! The conspiracy of regional and international actors needs to be unraveled, the evidence made public, the guilty prosecuted for war crimes. The conspiracy of silence in the corporate media needs to be exposed for what it is: still more evidence of how the propaganda matrix actually operates, how it serves the Empire. These are the conspiracies that matter. Let’s leave the Rothschilds, Illuminati, and lizard people to the darker recesses of internet irrelevance.

While the racists cry from the mountaintops that their precious White Europe is under siege, let us recognize that the discourse of anti-imperialism is also under siege; that the anti-imperialist, anti-capitalist, anti-fascist space must be reclaimed and must be defended, whatever the cost.

horiz-long grey

ericDraitserBWEric Draitser is the founder of StopImperialism.org and host ofCounterPunch Radio. He is an independent geopolitical analyst based in New York City. You can reach him atericdraitser@gmail.com.

Screen Shot 2015-08-22 at 7.41.15 PM

Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Fenixor on September 29, 2015, 11:49:00 AM
Wow, okey so Im new here but I can see that almost anyting seems to go. Perhaps its a bit too easy to talk about the refugee crisis online in general terms without having any real life experience to link it to, I think this "Where the children sleep" (http://darbarnensover.aftonbladet.se/chapter/english-version/ (http://darbarnensover.aftonbladet.se/chapter/english-version/)) collection of photographies paints a picture of how refugee kids are experiencing collapse in real life.

In Sweden, where Im from, people have mixed feelings about the most recent immigration wave. Opinion polls show some 50/50 divide between those who wish to limit immigration more and those who want to take in more. Studies have also shown that mainstream media has a large effect on public opinion, when people are informed about problems related to immigration they tend to become more negative (scared) which plays into the hands of the extrem right (Sweden Democrats). On the other hand we have a left that thinks we can help everyone without even having a plan for how to provide for the ones that get here now, which of course is not true either. The lack of truth-telling has created some really bizarr social trends. One problem that I have seen creeping up more and more is the tendancy of mistrust of the elite (politicians, scientists, media etc) becoming mixed up with conspiracy theories and xenophobic ideas (especially in online forums). Most people dont understand that we have reached limits to what the biosphere can provide, that pursuing GDP growth is meaningless and a recipie for disaster. What scares me is not that people immigrate but that people will start to think that racist and fascist ideas somehow is a "solution" to all our problems. History is full of such examples.

The fact that mr Putin is funding right wing extremists in Europe, including the Sweden Democrats, is not helping and I dont understand why so many americans have fallen in love with this tyrant. The world is not black and white, just because one does not like the US foreign policy (which is awful of course) doesnt mean that Russias foreign policy is any better. For example, that its somehow okey for Russia to annex Crimea and start a war i eastern Ukraine because of some absurd idea of people speaking russian in Ukraine is a dangerous worldview. Then surely it would be okey for mexico to annex california? The propaganda war between the "West and East" is at staggering levels. Its sad to see even the most clever of people getting the facts wrong.   

I do agree that the West has long been consuming the resources of the world, either through market mechanisms or simply by force, and now people start to move from their impoverished corner of the world towards the empire that was beind most of that destruction. So no, I dont feel sorry for fat and lazy westernes who think they are entitled to all the earths wealth. Building walls to keep people out is also a terrible idea that really shows the lack of historical wisdom.

There is no remedy for what has already been done, we are on a one way street, but I agree with the forum motto "save as many as you can"   
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Surly1 on September 29, 2015, 12:01:11 PM
Welcome, and thanks for posting!
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on September 29, 2015, 12:06:26 PM
The fact that mr Putin is funding right wing extremists in Europe, including the Sweden Democrats, is not helping

I was not aware of this. Can you provide more info on this?

Thank you for posting and welcome.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Fenixor on September 29, 2015, 12:34:06 PM
Sure, I just want to add that Putin has said at two press conferences that the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact in 1939 between Soviet and Nazi-Germany was not such a "bad idea". This in itself should give everyone cause for pause.

Anton Shekhovtsovs blog (http://anton-shekhovtsov.blogspot.se/ (http://anton-shekhovtsov.blogspot.se/)) is a good start. Other sources as follows (you might have to use google translate):
http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&artikel=5966926 (http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&artikel=5966926) 
http://expo.se/2015/sa-stoder-sd-putin_6892.html (http://expo.se/2015/sa-stoder-sd-putin_6892.html)
http://cornucopia.cornubot.se/2015/06/sverigedemokraterna-forsokte-stoppa.html (http://cornucopia.cornubot.se/2015/06/sverigedemokraterna-forsokte-stoppa.html)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on September 29, 2015, 01:20:41 PM
The first blog talks about Russian right wing extremists reaching out to their Swedish counterparts, but I didn't find anything about Putin himself being involved, just some fringe parties. The non-English sources will have to wait until I have more time.

Thanks for the links.

While i can search and find articles accusing Putin or Russia of giving or loaning money to right wing fringe parties, I haven't found any actual proof so far that this is true. It does appear he is courting these people, from what I gather.

Any other Diners got the skinny on this?
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Fenixor on September 29, 2015, 02:25:06 PM
Got short on time there, but basically it is hard to know what sums the Sweden Democrats are getting from Russia, directly or through indirect channels due to that the party dont have to share that information and has chosen not to do so. However, we know that SD politicians are supportive of Russias actions in the Ukraine and have voted so in the EU parliament. We also know that funds have been given to Front Nationale in France and most likely other left and right wing parties in Europe. This may be due to that Russia is looking for new friends, I dont know, or that the right wing is anti the EU  and looking to the east. In any case, my point is that this is not a stabilizing trend of tolerance. Im not saying that this somehow is an excuse for aggression towards Russia or any other nation. Im saying that alliances are being made behind the scenes. Its not only immigration from Syria but also within Europe that we should be concerned about, due to conflict.

Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on September 29, 2015, 02:50:51 PM
Quote
Any other Diners got the skinny on this?

My questions and reaction are exactly the same as yours.  I don't doubt there are a tiny group of fascists in Russia, or that they crossed into Donbass to fight, or that they took orders from Strelkov while there, but that doesn't mean they are working for Putin.

Plus I would question 'Putin = tyrant', 'annexing Crimea = not OK', 'Putin started a war in Ukraine' - all false memes emanating from the USG.

I think Putin's "support" of Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact is his commentary on Soviet Union history, and in no way suggests Russia is now angling to take over the Baltic states and half of Poland, any more than Germany is.

http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/transcripts/49455 (http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/transcripts/49455)
[ Press Conference with Putin and Merkel ]
10 May 2015

Putin: Concerning the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, let me draw your attention to the historical events, when the Soviet Union… (It is not even so important who was in charge of diplomacy at the time. Stalin was in charge, of course, but he was not the only person thinking about how to guarantee the Soviet Union’s security) ... the Soviet Union made tremendous efforts to put in place conditions for collective resistance to Nazism in Germany and made repeated attempts to create an anti-Nazi bloc in Europe.

All of these attempts failed. What’s more, after 1938, when the well-known agreement was concluded in Munich, conceding some regions of Czechoslovakia, some politicians thought that war was inevitable. Churchill, for example, when his colleague came back to London with this bit of paper and said that he had brought peace, said in reply, “Now war is inevitable.”

When the Soviet Union realised that it was left to face Hitler’s Germany on its own, it acted to try to avoid a direct confrontation, and this resulted in signing the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. In this sense, I agree with our Culture Minister’s view that this pact did make sense in terms of guaranteeing the Soviet Union’s security. This is my first point.

Second, I remind you that after the Munich Agreement was signed, Poland itself took steps to annex part of Czech territory. In the end, following the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and the division of Poland, they fell victim to the same policy that they tried to pursue in Europe.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on September 29, 2015, 03:32:17 PM
Well, absent good source information, you have to look at this from the big picture.

Putin is ex-KGB.  He's in a fight with the CIA and NSA, and they are funding their proxies.  So he's gonna fund some of his own proxies, and I doubt precisely what their political leanings are bothers him all that much, just as it doesn't bother the CIA if they fund extremist Muslims.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Fenixor on September 29, 2015, 04:03:53 PM
I should have known this comment would set off some disagreement. Any way here is a link to a pretty good article "Aspects of Putin's appeal to international publics" (https://www.academia.edu/11934954/Aspects_of_Putins_appeal_to_international_publics (https://www.academia.edu/11934954/Aspects_of_Putins_appeal_to_international_publics)) that might shed some light on the polarisation we see in global media.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on September 29, 2015, 04:14:46 PM
I should have known this comment would set off some disagreement. Any way here is a link to a pretty good article "Aspects of Putin's appeal to international publics" (https://www.academia.edu/11934954/Aspects_of_Putins_appeal_to_international_publics (https://www.academia.edu/11934954/Aspects_of_Putins_appeal_to_international_publics)) that might shed some light on the polarisation we see in global media.

BTW FX, :hi: to the Diner!

You're the second person from Sweden to show up recently, Linda turned up in our Blog Commentariat as well.

Great to have more Diner Boots on the Ground reporting from the Trenches!  :icon_sunny:

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on September 29, 2015, 04:42:29 PM
I should have known this comment would set off some disagreement. Any way here is a link to a pretty good article "Aspects of Putin's appeal to international publics" (https://www.academia.edu/11934954/Aspects_of_Putins_appeal_to_international_publics (https://www.academia.edu/11934954/Aspects_of_Putins_appeal_to_international_publics)) that might shed some light on the polarisation we see in global media.

Well, it's pretty clear to me that my government's interference in the business of other sovereign nations in the interest of global hegemony is a big problem. That would still be true if Putin didn't exist.

The US is the 800 pound gorilla and Putin seems to be reacting to provocations faster and smarter than the loonie toons running the State Dept. and the CIA.

Do I admire him for that? Not really. He can do it because he's at the head of a command state. But even in Russia today there has to be more than one man calling the shots. But not like here. Here we have career bureaucrats starting wars to enhance their curriculum vitaes. He is an oligarch, a warlord, really.

Do I like him? Not too much. Do I respect him? You betcha.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Fenixor on September 29, 2015, 09:11:42 PM
Thanks for the warm welcome =), the only Swede then, because that is me but under a different name.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Mercury on October 04, 2015, 06:33:42 PM
Refugee sea arrivals in Greece this year approach 400,000

And they keep on coming...News Stories, 2 October 2015

(http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/78/590x/secondary/Kos-358178.jpg)

ATHENS, Greece, October 2 (UNHCR) -- The UN refugee agency said on Friday that refugee and migrant arrivals in Greece are expected to hit the 400,000 mark soon, despite adverse weather conditions. Greece remains by far the largest single entry point for new sea arrivals in the Mediterranean, followed by Italy with 131,000 arrivals so far in 2015.

Linky: http://bit.ly/1LXw00Z (http://bit.ly/1LXw00Z)

Headed for the "promised land"... :emthup:

Up to 280k refugees arrived in Germany in September

Posted on 1 October 2015 BERLIN: A record 270,000 to 280,000 refugees arrived in Germany in September, more than the total for 2014, said the interior minister of the southern state of Bavaria Wednesday...Germany expects up to one million refugees this year, Chancellor Angela Merkel's generosity towards migrants has sparked discord within her coalition... :icon_mrgreen:

Linky: http://bit.ly/1jIGd6i (http://bit.ly/1jIGd6i)

The 4 Horseman are Saddling Up...

Migrants accused of bringing CHOLERA to Kos as tourist struck down with disease

It is feared that the bacterial infection may have been brought in through the influx of migrants arriving on the Greek island, which has become a main entry point for those fleeing war-torn countries.

An official from the Centre for Disease Control and Prevention confirmed that a 79-year-old Dutch tourist with symptoms of cholera was transferred from Kos for tests and treatment in an Athens hospital.


Linky: http://bit.ly/1LXPtyt (http://bit.ly/1LXPtyt)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on October 04, 2015, 06:47:11 PM
Thanks for the warm welcome =), the only Swede then, because that is me but under a different name.

Very Sneaky there FX, using a different Handle on the forum from the blog commentariat!  ;)

Anyhow, better one Swede than no Swedes!  :icon_sunny:

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on October 04, 2015, 06:50:22 PM
Refugee sea arrivals in Greece this year approach 400,000

Yea, and the "quotas" for Refugee numbers in ALL of Europe by the clowns from Brussels is like 150K I think.

This math does not work too well.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Mercury on October 04, 2015, 06:53:45 PM
Refugee sea arrivals in Greece this year approach 400,000

Yea, and the "quotas" for Refugee numbers in ALL of Europe by the clowns from Brussels is like 150K I think.

This math does not work too well.

RE

Bad weather has reduced the number of arrivals entering Greece considerably, for now. From 6,000 per day down to 2,000. But as soon as there's a milder spell they'll be back by the boat full...
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on October 04, 2015, 08:52:41 PM
I'd just like to point out again that such numbers cannot all be leaving Syria at the same time, due to the lack of transport.  These are people who have escaped Syria since the beginning 4 years ago, and have been staying in Turkey.  Then something in Turkey changed politically and the Turkish authorities decided to facilitate moving them on to Greece.

Looking back on news.google.com ("syrian refugees") in April this year the story was all about the terrible conditions  in the camps in Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey, with UN pleading for more help and asking the EU to take as many as 40,000.  May saw an agreement between US and Turkey to support "good rebels" in Syria finally happen.  Kos first started to be mentioned in late May, when this thread started. Turkey had elections on June 7, in which AKP lost its majority.
Title: Can 'Operation Sophia' stop Mediterranean refugee trafficking?
Post by: RE on October 07, 2015, 08:08:59 PM
Can a Dyke stop a Tsunami?

RE

(http://images.csmonitor.com/csm/2015/10/940016_1_107-Operation-Sophia_standard.jpg?alias=standard_600x400)

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2015/1007/Can-Operation-Sophia-stop-Mediterranean-refugee-trafficking (http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2015/1007/Can-Operation-Sophia-stop-Mediterranean-refugee-trafficking)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on October 07, 2015, 09:09:39 PM
Nigel Farage and a few others were talking trying about the australian solution. Seems theyre going to give it a shot.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on October 07, 2015, 09:16:35 PM
Nigel Farage and a few others were talking trying about the australian solution. Seems theyre going to give it a shot.

Oz is on the other side of the Planet.  It's not a hop skip and jump across the Mediterrainean Sea.  You can't walk to Oz like you can walk from Greece to Germany.

Good luck with trying to seal those borders.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on October 07, 2015, 09:59:35 PM
Nigel Farage and a few others were talking trying about the australian solution. Seems theyre going to give it a shot.

Oz is on the other side of the Planet.  It's not a hop skip and jump across the Mediterrainean Sea.  You can't walk to Oz like you can walk from Greece to Germany.

Good luck with trying to seal those borders.

RE

Yes its even easier. PNG to FNQ can be done  in a dinghy just like turkey to kos,  ask palloy. nobody  does that though except papuans and torres strait islanders needing free  health care because u will be put in an australian detention centre in PNG. Notice the full benefits are available at the first point of entry unlike arriving in greece or spain.

Refugees with some money at their disposal are taking planes trains and automobiles and walk from iraq, afghanistan,  sri lanka and africa to indonesia to get to oz or turkey to get to the eu or chile to get to the us. Basically land at the nearest place your passport is good, then illegaly cross a border by boat or foot and claim asylum. The coming climate refugees from africa will be many millions more and much more poor, millions are on the brink already. They can get to the north african coast as thry already do, they cant walk through egypt, israel,  syria or iran/iraq to turkey. They will have to deal with the brit,  french etc navy off the north african coast like all the refugees intercepted off the indonesian coast in international water.

The question is what will then be done with them? Keyword in that article is LEGAL, its a legal question. Supplying them lawyers is a lot more expensive than tents and meals, the number will overwhelm their budget in a month max.

Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on October 07, 2015, 10:08:41 PM
Nigel Farage and a few others were talking trying about the australian solution. Seems theyre going to give it a shot.

Oz is on the other side of the Planet.  It's not a hop skip and jump across the Mediterrainean Sea.  You can't walk to Oz like you can walk from Greece to Germany.

Good luck with trying to seal those borders.

RE

Yes its even easier. PNG to FNQ can be done  in a dinghy just like turkey to kos,  ask palloy. nobody  does that though except papuans and torres strait islanders needing free  health care. Notice the full benefits are available at the first point of entry unlike arriving in greece or spain.

Refugees with some money at their disposal are taking planes trains and automobiles and walk from iraq, afghanistan,  sri lanka and africa to indonesia to get to oz or turkey to get to the eu or chile to get to the us. Basically land at the nearest place your passport is good. The coming climate refugees from africa will be many millions more and much more poor. They can get to the north african coast as thry already do, they cant walk through egypt, israel,  syria or iran/iraq to turkey. They will have to deal with the brit,  french etc navy off the north african coast like all the refugees intercepted off the indonesian coast in international water.

The question is what will then be done with them? Keyword in that article is LEGAL, its a legal question. Supplying them lawyers is a lot more expensive than tents and meals, the number will overwhelm their budget in a month max.

My guess is they are tryin to target Boat Owners, and they will allow some refugees in, but then sink the boat so it can't make another trip.  However, as long as there is demand, other boats will be found, built or bought by entrepreneurs with some money looking to make aproft off the misery..

On a clear day with decent weather, you can make those shorter crossings like to Gibralter in a fucking inflatable dinghy with a 10HP trolling motor.  You don't need much of a boat to cross that bit of water.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on October 07, 2015, 11:53:50 PM
The narrowest part of Gibraltar Strait (Morroco to Spain) is 9 miles, with very strong currents, and the busiest shipping lanes in the world.  I doubt you would get across in a dinghy without being seen.

The narrowest distance between PNG and Australia (Saibai Island) is only 2 miles, but to get to the mainland requires multiple island hops up to 27 miles, 94 miles altogether, and a lot of the islands don't have water.  Lots of drug and gun-running too.  And then only another 500 miles by 4WD road to Cairns to actually get somewhere.

Turkey to Greece (Kos) looks to be the best, at 4 miles.

Turkey bordering the Black Sea looks quite OK.  I don't know why they don't just settle there.
Title: Refugee Boat Bizness Plan
Post by: RE on October 08, 2015, 02:25:24 AM
The narrowest part of Gibraltar Strait (Morroco to Spain) is 9 miles, with very strong currents, and the busiest shipping lanes in the world.  I doubt you would get across in a dinghy without being seen.

You don't have to do it right in the straight itself, there's a lot of coastline there where the distance from Morocco to Spain is like 100 miles.  Say you have an inflatable with a 100 HP Merc that will do 20 knots.  You make the crossing in 5 hrs overnight.

Boats to Go (http://www.boatstogo.com/refugee-rubber-boat.asp) has a special 20' Refugee Edition inflatable ON SALE for $1599.  :icon_sunny:


Extra Large Capacity Inflatable Boats - Refugee Edition

BoatsToGo Introduced new, humongous capacity 20' long SD600 inflatable boats for large cargo transportation. Great as utility barge for transportation of migrants and refugees across a globe. These boats are not only strong enough to cross Mediterranean waters to the Greece or Italy, but also can zip across an Atlantic Ocean with an ease.

There are 2 Refugee barge editions will be available - ALAHU AKBAR in black to match ISIS Caliphate flag, and HELLO GERMANY in dark gray.

(http://www.boatstogo.com/images/inflatable-boats-SD600/Hello-Germany-Model-SD600/SD600-Refugee-Boats-03_sm.jpg)

Refugee Rubber Boats for Sale

What makes these boats unique, is use of 140mm high pressure drop-stitch air floor. That is same thickness and durability floor that is used in commercial grade river rafts. High pressure air floor allows quick and easy deployment under cover of the darkness. It also gives extra buoyancy to the boat overcrowded beyond its capacity.

Refugees boat models are large size boats, and are not just for transporting war-torn immigrants from Iraq and Syria. They are perfect for transporting refugees across the world fleeing destitute nations in areas like Africa and The Caribbean. This large boat is also great for fishing or weddings or pleasure cruises on a weekends.

SD600 inflatable boats are flat bottom barges that are used to hold large weight capacity, and are not designed to go fast.

(http://www.boatstogo.com/images/refugee-boat-RB640/Refugee-Rubber-Boat-Drawign_sm.jpg)
These features makes SD600 boats are great for transportation:

    2 Year Manufacturer Warranty for transom & seams. Cuts with knife are not covered.

    Attractive Euro-style squared shape bow adds more useful space in front.

    Flat bottom provided great support for larger freight.

    5 independent air chambers provides additional safety in case of accident.

    Large end tubes provide more buoyancy and support for more cargo.

    Safety grab rope line all around the boat.

Not designed to go real fast, but I think with enough HP it will do 20 Knots.

You'll also want a Radar unit on each boat to avoid shipping traffic.

Now, say you are the leadership of Morocco and you don't want to build large Refugee camps.  You spend $1M on these boats and you hire captains for them who get paid out of the proceeds for each round trip they make.  You charge $5K per passenger, 20 passenger each trip makes $100K.  For $1M, you can buy at least 200 of them and fit them out with a good Merc outboard and Radar.  This gives you capacity every night the weather is decent and seas not too rough to transport 4000 Refugees and drop them off somewhere along the coast of Spain.

Quote
Turkey bordering the Black Sea looks quite OK.  I don't know why they don't just settle there.

First because the Turks don't want them there.  Second because it's not much better than where they just left from.  Third because they dream of the Good Life in Germany motoring down the Autobahn at 100 mph.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on October 08, 2015, 02:35:59 AM
RE they have been burning those fishing boats full of refugees since the 80s under excuse of quarantine. It never stopped people smugglers And neithet does jailing them. 2 yrs in an aussie jail is luxury for an indon fisherman and the money to feed their family is already with the family.

I know the population of oz is tiny to absorb refugees compared to europe,  but if they want to try the sic "oz solution"  it is a question of having facility to lock everyone up and then have a heap of lawyers and court casesand appeals. Nigel Farage and others dont mention that minor detail before suggesting sending the navy. Right palloy?
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on October 08, 2015, 03:20:18 AM
RE they have been burning those fishing boats full of refugees since the 80s under excuse of quarantine. It never stopped people smugglers And neithet does jailing them. 2 yrs in an aussie jail is luxury for an indon fisherman and the money to feed their family is already with the family.

I know the population of oz is tiny to absorb refugees compared to europe,  but if they want to try the sic "oz solution"  it is a question of having facility to lock everyone up and then have a heap of lawyers and court casesand appeals. Nigel Farage and others dont mention that minor detail before suggesting sending the navy. Right palloy?

This is precisely my point UB.  When the population pressure and economics are this strong, you can't stop this kind of thing.  There is PROFIT to be made in shipping Refugees from one spot to another, and somebody will step up to the plate to finance it.  I am quite sure the Turkish Goobermint  financed the refugee inflatables heading for Kos.

For the refugees, they have NOTHING LEFT TO LOSE.  Not even their lives, which were so bad where they left from, death is preferable.  So they will risk it ALL.

Europe will be overrun.

http://www.youtube.com/v/HdNn5TZu6R8

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on October 08, 2015, 05:26:24 AM
You'll also want a Radar unit on each boat to avoid shipping traffic.***



***Optional equipment available for additional cost. Installation may also require the optional wheel pedestal and optional fixed bimini for mounting radar transmitter and antenna.
Title: STOP THE TSUNAMI OF EX-PAT AMERIKAN REFUGEES!
Post by: RE on October 10, 2015, 09:35:13 AM
http://www.globalresearch.ca/fleeing-europe-and-north-america-stop-millions-of-western-immigrants/5481103 (http://www.globalresearch.ca/fleeing-europe-and-north-america-stop-millions-of-western-immigrants/5481103)

STOP THE TSUNAMI OF EX-PAT AMERIKAN REFUGEES!

lol.

http://www.youtube.com/v/kVfrIfwXFSQ

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on October 10, 2015, 02:48:13 PM
From Wiki:

André Vltchek was born in Leningrad (now Saint Petersburg), the Soviet Union, in 1963. He has spent most of his adult life in New York City[/i

New York City!!!???

Git a rope.

http://www.youtube.com/v/vgrGyR6EYbY&fs=1
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Fenixor on October 10, 2015, 03:48:23 PM
This post contains some news that I translated from Swedish sources.

“The defence department says no to converting Rinkaby shooting range to a 10 day camp for 10,000 asylum seekers but will organize 600 beds at other drill-grounds. This will cover the needs of half a day’s immigration flow. Yesterday 824 new asylum seekers were registered, 27% from Syria and 32% from Afghanistan. Numbers have dropped since last wednesday's record of 1297 people in 24h but the average for the last 7 days is till 1021 per day. A majority (73%) of these people are not from Syria” (2015-10-05) - Cornucopia? http://cornucopia.cornubot.se/2015/10/asylkrisen-forsvarsmakten-stoppar.html (http://cornucopia.cornubot.se/2015/10/asylkrisen-forsvarsmakten-stoppar.html)

……………………….....................................................................................
“ Every day 2000 newly arrived people need somewhere to sleep in Sweden, according to the Immigration Office. Many volunteers are going out and doing what they can in the worst refugee crisis since WW2. But some of the people who haven’t lifted a hand also tend to get very excited by all their “great deeds” for humanity. In large parts of the world it's natural to help others in need. In Sweden, however, there has always been a number to call for any crisis situation that occurs, a department in charge, and a state or municipality that can handle the situation.

But now women in Stockholms nice suburbs are driving around in large Audis with hundreds of diapers and other stuff in their trunks, which has been declared loudly on Facebook. But volunteers that have never been in the field or gotten a taste of reality before often doesn’t manage the physical or psychological stress for more than a couple of days. And so people get upset that the old number that worked for all problems before - i.e. the state - has hard a time managing the refugee crisis. People lash out at the police, border patrol and administrators.

In Göteborg tents are being raised that otherwise have been used for natural catastrophes, like the earthquakes in Haiti and Pakistan. Malmö is entering what they call “Critical Stage 2” which is code for “serious problem”. Skåne is empty on mattresses. They are even out at IKEA. The immigration office has publicly stated that they cannot manage to register all. Almost everything is of interest (and Bert Karlsson [sadly, a racist that gets big tax money for housing immigrants - my own writing] will soon be a billionaire).” (2015-10-11) SVD http://www.svd.se/frustrationen-bor-riktas-mot-politiker/om/flyktingkrisen-i-europa (http://www.svd.se/frustrationen-bor-riktas-mot-politiker/om/flyktingkrisen-i-europa)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on October 10, 2015, 03:59:11 PM
My wife pointed out an article (maybe NY Times?) this  morning that showed how refugees are bicycling through Russia and entering Norway from north of the arctic circle.

Obviously, this requires the tacit approval of Putin. No doubt another of his interesting chess moves designed to destabilize Western Europe.

(For free, too. No wasted resources.) Apparently the refugees say Russians are racists and just want to see them keep going, from what I gathered.)

Looks like a good time to shop for a used bicycle.

(https://www.adn.com/sites/default/files/styles/ad_slideshow_wide/public/MIGRANTS_ARCTIC_TRAVEL_1_1328158.JPG?itok=uEwPVJMw)

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/10/world/europe/bypassing-the-risky-sea-refugees-reach-europe-through-the-arctic.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/10/world/europe/bypassing-the-risky-sea-refugees-reach-europe-through-the-arctic.html?_r=0)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Fenixor on October 12, 2015, 01:44:51 PM
There are refugees trying to get in to Finland through Sweden also, which has resulted in standoffs along the northern border between pro- and anti-immigration groups. Finland is famous for it's xenophobic attitudes and with Sannfinnländarna (the true finns) being the second largest political party the country only accepts about 1 200 refugees every year, that's as many people that comes to Sweden in a week (lately per day).

Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on October 12, 2015, 01:58:04 PM
There are refugees trying to get in to Finland through Sweden also, which has resulted in standoffs along the northern border between pro- and anti-immigration groups. Finland is famous for it's xenophobic attitudes and with Sannfinnländarna (the true finns) being the second largest political party the country only accepts about 1 200 refugees every year, that's as many people that comes to Sweden in a week (lately per day).

That's a pretty long border to secure, not to mention what is possible going across the gulf of bothnia by boat.

(https://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/europe/sweden_div96.jpg)

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on October 12, 2015, 02:14:22 PM
I was apparently wrong about the "bicycling through Russia" part. They get through Russia however they can, but the bicycles are used to cross the border because cars are stopped and pedestrians are stopped, but due to some inexplicable detail in the law, bicycles are not...or have not been, until now.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Fenixor on October 12, 2015, 02:23:30 PM
It's mostly in and around Haparanda (http://omhaparanda.se/maps/images/Haparanda_Tornio_Kommuner.jpg). I've heard most about busses being turned around at the border. Think it's a bit different up here in the North, people from the Middle East (for example) are not used to the cold, or nature (massive forests), and would get lost pretty quick.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on October 12, 2015, 02:35:34 PM
It's mostly in and around Haparanda (http://omhaparanda.se/maps/images/Haparanda_Tornio_Kommuner.jpg). I've heard most about busses being turned around at the border. Think it's a bit different up here in the North, people from the Middle East (for example) are not used to the cold, or nature (massive forests), and would get lost pretty quick.

If the Refugees can afford to make it as far as Sweden to begin with, I am sure they can afford a Garmin or Magellan handheld GPS.

(http://www.gpsinformation.net/mgoldreview/mag3-2faa.jpg)

It's tough to get lost nowadays.

For the cold, you buy a nice Parka and ski pants, you'll be fine.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Fenixor on October 12, 2015, 02:42:57 PM
Haha yes true, well maybe they will try it now since Finland is going for stricter border controls because of protests
(http://images.cdn.yle.fi/image/upload/fl_keep_iptc/w_1600/w_1600,h_900,c_crop,x_0,y_245/w_1100,h_620,c_fit/v1442656716/14-svyle-24914755fd31a88810a.jpg). Ironic since Sweden took in houndreds of thousands of Finns during WW2, also why we have a large finnish community today.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on October 12, 2015, 02:55:06 PM
I didn't know the Hell's Angels had a Finnish division!  :icon_mrgreen:

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Fenixor on October 16, 2015, 04:15:38 AM
Afghan refugee shot dead by Bulgarian police near border with Turkey (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugee-shot-dead-by-bulgarian-police-near-border-with-turkey-a6696241.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugee-shot-dead-by-bulgarian-police-near-border-with-turkey-a6696241.html))

...the first fatal shooting since refugees started flowing through Bulgaria two years ago.

The Prime Minister, Boiko Borisov, left a European Union summit on the refugee crisis in Brussels to return home after hearing of the incident.

The UN's refugee agency (UNHCR) condemned the use of force and appealed to Bulgaria not to treat refugees like criminals.

“We, at UNHCR, are deeply shocked by this incident,” said spokesperson Boris Cheshirkov.

“We deplore the death of an Afghan asylum seeker, trying to reach safety across the border. We call on the Bulgarian authorities to conduct an immediate, transparent and independent investigation. Seeking asylum is an universal human right and not a crime.”

The Black Sea state, which is a member of the EU but not of the border-free Schengen Area, has deployed more border police, installed cameras and motion sensors, and is extending a security fence to cover 100 miles of its border with Turkey.

At least 11,000 asylum seekers have entered Bulgaria since January and the number is expected to reach 15,000 by the end of the year. Most are fleeing Syria and use Bulgaria as a transit route to wealthier countries such as Germany and Sweden.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on October 16, 2015, 02:08:41 PM
A solution to the refugee problem in Europe has been found - EU is going to pay Turkey to solve the problem.  This convinces me that the sudden influx of refugees into Europe was a deliberate Turkish strategy all along.

https://www.rt.com/news/318822-turkey-eu-refugees-plan/ (https://www.rt.com/news/318822-turkey-eu-refugees-plan/)
€3bn, visa deal & EU access talks if Turkey stops refugee flow to Europe
16 Oct, 2015

The EU and Turkey have agreed on an “action plan” that might give Ankara up to €3 billion ($3.4bn) in aid, visa privileges and new talks on Turkey-EU membership in return for its help in stemming the flow of refugees to Europe.

The EU summit in Brussels stretched into the early hours of Thursday, and seems to have achieved some results. While no final deal has been inked, EU leaders and Ankara have managed to agree an "action plan", European Council President Donald Tusk told reporters.

"Our intensified meetings with Turkish leaders ... in the last couple of weeks were devoted to one goal: stemming the migratory flows that go via Turkey to the EU. The action plan is a major step in this direction," said Tusk.

Yet he expressed "cautious optimism,” that the plan would succeed, but has welcomed the agreement of an EU-Turkey joint action plan to tackle the current migratory crisis.

In the summit’s spotlight was the ambitious deal, previously drafted between Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and the European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker.

The deal's terms included three billion euros ($3.4 billlion) in aid, the easing of visa restrictions for EU travel for Turkish nationals, and resurrecting negotiations for EU membership. Turkey also wanted to be included on the list of "safe countries" for asylum.

In return, Turkey promised to strengthen its border controls, greater co-operation with Greece, being another first destination for refugees fleeing war, instability and poverty in the Middle East.

In exchange for visa-free access for its citizens, Ankara would agree for the previously drafted readmission deal, meaning that Turkey would take back those asylum seekers, who entered the EU from its territory.

"We will not sign the readmission agreement before steps are taken on the Schengen visa and thus a visa liberalization is secured for Turkish citizens," Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu said in an interview before the summit. According to Davutoglu, Turkey would like the deal by the first half of 2016.

While Turkey wants EU to show good will addressing the free-visa travel, European leaders want proof that Turkey will live up to its pledges, as part of the deal would see Turkey increase its crack down on people-smugglers.

"We need guarantees that Turkey's response to our offer will be as concrete and as substantive as ours," European Council President Donald Tusk said.

As for the 3 billion euros in aid for Turkey, the EU leaders agreed that the request was reasonable.

"We are declaring as ready and pulling to have a share the burden with Turkey because Turkey, on the very doorstep of the European Union, has to shoulder responsibility for more than two million refugees and it stands for a number of years already, so in this period of burden sharing, in this period of solidarity between neighbors, it is only right for the European Union to think how it can participate in this," German Chancellor Angela Merkel has said.

To cement the potential deal Merkel is set to visit Istanbul on Sunday.

"There is still a huge amount to do," Merkel said in a press conference. "But you cannot say that we've achieved nothing."

The deal to pursue Ankara's help stems from German Chancellor Angela's Merkel calls to “secure the external borders” of the Union. Over 710,000 migrants have arrived to the EU's border so far this year.

"We cannot organize or stem the refugee movements without working with Turkey," said Merkel as the leaders of the 28 nation states arrived for the summit in Brussels.

Germany, which has taken on a hefty leading role in offering migrants a new home, is struggling to deliver on its promises. Many that arrive in Germany live on the streets, waiting for the bureaucratic machine to processes their paperwork.

Turkey on the other hand has enormous experience dealing with the influx of refugees that have flooded its borders mainly following the Syrian conflict that began in 2011.

The number of refugees in Turkey in 2015 is expected to rise to 1.9 million people, including 1.7 million Syrian migrants, UN Refugee Agency UNHCR says. With war-torn Syria just across the border, Turkey has set up 22 camps for refugees. Another two camp are under construction now. While the majority of refugees are Syrian, with half being children, others flock to the country from Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq and Somalia.

Turkey has accommodated more than two million Syrian refugees, spending over €7 billion (nearly $8 billion). So far it has received only €1 billion ($1.1 billion) in external aid.

"The three billion euros can play a role in the sense that Turkey has already spent more than seven billion on the refugees and has received less than one billion. I think that in the future we have to share the burden, where we were left alone during the last three-four years,” the German Chancellor said.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on October 16, 2015, 02:57:16 PM
The same as how australia tries to give billions of aid to indonesia in exchange for trying to work with them to stop refugees.
Title: Germany Faces "National Disaster" Over Refugee Crisis
Post by: RE on October 17, 2015, 02:41:59 AM
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-16/germany-faces-national-disaster-over-refugee-crisis-hungary-slams-shut-border-croati (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-16/germany-faces-national-disaster-over-refugee-crisis-hungary-slams-shut-border-croati)

Germany Faces "National Disaster" Over Refugee Crisis As Hungary Slams Shut Border With Croatia

Tyler Durden's picture





 
 
 

“Border control officers are exposed to strong migratory pressures.”

That’s a quote from Georgi Kostov, the head of the interior ministry for Bulgaria where an Afghan man was shot and killed on Thursday, marking the first fatal shooting in Europe’s worsening migrant crisis. 

Bulgarian border guards claim a warning shot ricocheted and injured the man. He later died. Draw your own conclusions.

The official line from Bulgaria was this: “We are deeply shocked and regret the fatal incident. We are convinced that barriers, fences and police forces cannot solve the problems of people who are in a desperate situation.”

That’s a nice sentiment, but not everyone shares it and one person who is certainly not intent on adopting an open door policy to refugees fleeing the war-torn Middle East is Hungarian PM Viktor Orban who, as we’ve documented extensively, has gone to great lengths to close his country’s borders with razor wire fencing and protect those fences with water cannons, tear gas, and rubber bullets. 

Here’s a quote from an interview Orban gave today which pretty much sums things up as far as he’s concerned: 

 
 

“Spiritually, Islam was never part of Europe. It's the rulebook of another world.” 

Make no mistake, the back and forth Balkan border battles between the states that are on the frontlines of the crisis have been raging for months, as Serbia, Croatia, and Slovenia attempt to negotiate how to cope with Hungary's hardline approach. Orban's move to wall-off his country's border with Serbia triggered an influx of asylum seekers into Croatia (remember, everyone's trying to get to Germany), but Slovenia's unwillingness to serve as a kind of migrant superhighway steered refugees right back into Hungary and so now, Orban is closing the border with Croatia. Here's how we put it late last month: 

Once it became clear that Hungary was fully prepared to turn its border with Serbia into a warm April night in Baltimore in order to defend Europe’s “Christian heritage” (to quote Orban), refugees simply rerouted through Croatia. Serbia has facilitated this noting that it simply does not have the resources to accommodate the migrants and even if it did, they do not want to settle in Serbia in the first place. Once Slovenia said it wouldn’t be a part of a migrant "corridor" to Germany, the stage was set for migrants to zigzag from Hungary’s border with Serbia into Croatia, and then back into Hungary.

And here's more from Bloomberg on Orban's reaction after the EU failed to come to an agreement on closing off Greece to asylum seekers: 

 
 

Hungary will seal its border with Croatia from midnight on Friday, expanding one of the European Union’s toughest set of measures to stem the influx of refugees, Foreign Minister Peter Szijjarto said in Budapest.

 

"This is the second-best option," Szijjarto told reporters. "The best option, setting up an EU force to defend Greece’s external borders, was rejected in Brussels yesterday." 

 

An EU summit on Thursday failed to reach a final agreement on recruiting Turkey to help control the flow of refugees as Russia’s bombing campaign in Syria threatens to push more people to seek safety. The bloc’s leaders also made little progress on how to redesign the system of distributing immigrants, forming an EU border-guard corps or on ensuring arrivals are properly processed.

 

Hungary has extended an existing barbed-wire fence on its border with Serbia to cover its frontier with Croatia. Prime Minister Viktor Orban warned this week that his government would complete the barrier if EU leaders fail to agree on closing the Greek border, the main entry point for Syrian and other Middle Eastern refugees into the 28-nation bloc.

 

Meanwhile, in Germany, Angela Merkel is beginning to feel the heat as lawmakers and party loyalists become increasingly impatient with the hundreds of thousands of migrants streaming into the country. More, from AFP:

 
 

Germany's Angela Merkel is used to owning the room when she speaks to her party faithful, but the mood turned hostile when she defended her open-door refugee policy this week.


In a heated atmosphere, some of the 1,000-odd members at the meeting warned of a "national disaster" and demanded shuttering the borders as Germany expects up to one million migrants this year.


"Stop the refugee chaos -- save German culture + values -- dethrone Merkel," read a banner at the congress late Wednesday in the eastern state of Saxony, the home base for the anti-foreigner PEGIDA movement.


Managing the refugee crisis has turned into Merkel's greatest domestic political challenge since she took power almost 10 years ago, in November 2005.


Long valued by the electorate for her level-headed leadership amid the eurozone turmoil, Merkel has scared many with her welcoming stance amid a growing sentiment that the boat is full.


"The chancellor is walking on thin ice," judged the conservative daily Die Welt, pointing to a "growing gap" between Merkel and the base of her centre-right Christian Democrats (CDU) who demand she stem the record influx.


"The chancellor believes the nation can manage the crisis, but this belief is rapidly vanishing in the country," said the newspaper.


On Sunday, she jets off to Turkey to discuss with President Recep Tayyip Erdogan how to slow the inflow sparked by war and upheaval across the Middle East and North Africa, with almost 600,000 people arriving in Europe so far this year.


On the home front, Merkel has bravely insisted "we can do it", recalling US President Barack Obama's campaign rallying cry of "Yes we can".


But many Germans -- who in the summer greeted refugees at railway stations -- are losing faith as thousands keep coming daily and improvised refugee centres are bursting at the seams, including tent cities exposed to below-zero temperatures as winter approaches.

And here are two headlines which betray how desperate the situation is becoming:

In short, there is now a very real threat that a cascading series of border closures will completely block the Balkan route (not to mention destroy Schengen forever) leading directly to i) possibly violent confrontations between migrants and border police, and ii) a dramatic shift in the people flow through Libya, which would mark a kind of "out of the frying pan and into the fire" scenario for Syrian refugees. 

As for those who have already made it to Germany and other EU countries where they intend to settle, we reiterate our warning that anti-migrant sentiment could end up creating a dangerous bout of scapegoating xenophobia and on that note, we close with the following excerpt from Bloomberg:

 
 

In another sign of backlash in the region, Czech President Milos Zeman said migrants from Muslim countries won’t respect local laws and will follow sharia, Novinky.cz news website reported.

 

“Adulterous women will be stoned; thieves will have their hands chopped off,” Zeman said while meeting employees of a butcher shop in eastern Czech Republic, Novinky said.

4.35294
 
 
 

Title: Croatia diverts migrants to Slovenia after Hungary border closure
Post by: RE on October 17, 2015, 03:49:17 AM
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/17/us-europe-migrants-slovenia-idUSKCN0SB06620151017 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/17/us-europe-migrants-slovenia-idUSKCN0SB06620151017)

Croatia diverts migrants to Slovenia after Hungary border closure

(http://s1.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20151017&t=2&i=1087652783&w=&fh=&fw=&ll=644&pl=429&sq=&r=LYNXNPEB9G03A)
Title: Swedish Nazi Creates "Accommodation Centers" For Refugees As Turkey Insists "We'
Post by: RE on October 19, 2015, 04:47:12 PM
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-19/swedish-nazi-creates-accommodation-centers-refugees-turkey-insists-were-not-concentr (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-19/swedish-nazi-creates-accommodation-centers-refugees-turkey-insists-were-not-concentr)

Swedish Nazi Creates "Accommodation Centers" For Refugees As Turkey Insists "We're Not A Concentration Camp"

(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user92183/imageroot/2015/09/BlakanRoute.png)
Title: Krauts Sez: "The Concentration Camps Are Unfortunately Out Of Action"
Post by: RE on October 20, 2015, 12:26:35 PM
This was predictable.

RE

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-20/furious-germans-stage-massive-anti-islam-protest-concentration-camps-are-unfortunate (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-20/furious-germans-stage-massive-anti-islam-protest-concentration-camps-are-unfortunate)

Furious Germans Stage Massive Anti-Islam Protest: "The Concentration Camps Are Unfortunately Out Of Action"

(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user92183/imageroot/2015/10/Bachmann.png)
Lutz Bachman on Facebook

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Fenixor on October 20, 2015, 01:34:00 PM
Two refugee shelters burned down here in Sweden, just in the last week. No one died, there were no immigrants in the shelters at the time. But yes, tensions are growing and attitudes are turning real nasty fast. This was kind of predictable over here, the irony of having a liberal immigration policy leading to the exact opposite mentality.
Title: The Latest: 2,000 Migrants Headed Toward Austria in 4 Trains
Post by: RE on October 22, 2015, 11:38:43 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/10/22/world/europe/ap-eu-europe-migrants-the-latest.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/10/22/world/europe/ap-eu-europe-migrants-the-latest.html?_r=0)

The Latest: 2,000 Migrants Headed Toward Austria in 4 Trains
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Fenixor on October 22, 2015, 01:43:42 PM
Found the article about refugees biking over the border from Russia to Norway, so bizarre
(http://barentsobserver.com/sites/barentsobserver.com/files/styles/grid_8/public/main/articles/refugee-biclycle-atles.jpg?itok=wiUvnd_F)
http://barentsobserver.com/en/society/2015/10/refugee-overload-arctic-border-town-17-10 (http://barentsobserver.com/en/society/2015/10/refugee-overload-arctic-border-town-17-10)

In only few weeks, the number of Syrians crossing the Russian-Norwegian border has exploded. In the course of the first eight months of the year, about 200 refugees had crossed the border. One and a half month later, the number exceeded 1200. And the flow of people keeps growing. Information from the Norwegian police in East Finnmark show that close to 600 refugees have crossed the border only the last week.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on October 22, 2015, 02:14:30 PM
Found the article about refugees biking over the border from Russia to Norway, so bizarre
http://barentsobserver.com/en/society/2015/10/refugee-overload-arctic-border-town-17-10 (http://barentsobserver.com/en/society/2015/10/refugee-overload-arctic-border-town-17-10)

In only few weeks, the number of Syrians crossing the Russian-Norwegian border has exploded. In the course of the first eight months of the year, about 200 refugees had crossed the border. One and a half month later, the number exceeded 1200. And the flow of people keeps growing. Information from the Norwegian police in East Finnmark show that close to 600 refugees have crossed the border only the last week.

One wonders how they are making the transit up through Russia?   :icon_scratch:

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Fenixor on October 22, 2015, 03:29:51 PM
Booming business for human trafficking
(http://g8fip1kplyr33r3krz5b97d1.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Politico_illustration_CMYK_Landscape-714x601.jpg)
http://www.politico.eu/article/refugee-crisis-smugglers-syria-turkey-migrants-the-worlds-largest-human-bazaar-migration-refugees-smugglers-greece-turkey/ (http://www.politico.eu/article/refugee-crisis-smugglers-syria-turkey-migrants-the-worlds-largest-human-bazaar-migration-refugees-smugglers-greece-turkey/)
Title: Germany to Deport Refugees in Military Cargo Planes
Post by: RE on October 23, 2015, 09:28:42 PM
Cattle Cars of the Skies!

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-BvLq-epZrdg/VHEP7ZSBFhI/AAAAAAAAREk/giQk5rGL6lk/s1600/Holocaust-train-Sudeten-Germans.jpg)

Let' see...to transport 100,000 Refugees by cargo plane figuring each plane can carry 100 Refugees= 1000 Flights.  Doable I guess.  ::)

RE

http://www.globalresearch.ca/germany-to-deport-refugees-in-military-cargo-planes/5483917 (http://www.globalresearch.ca/germany-to-deport-refugees-in-military-cargo-planes/5483917)

Germany to Deport Refugees in Military Cargo Planes

By Martin Kreickenbaum and Andre Damon
Global Research, October 23, 2015
World Socialist Web Site

(http://www.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Syrian-refugees-400x262.jpg)
As growing numbers of refugees seek asylum from the wars raging in Syria and Iraq, governments throughout Europe are moving to seal their borders, slash social assistance for migrants, and carry out mass deportations.

This week, the Bild newspaper reported that the German government plans to use military aircraft to deport tens of thousands of refugees whose requests for asylum have been denied. According to the newspaper, the government is planning to use C-160 military transport planes to deport nearly 200,000 people who have been declared by the German state to be “economic migrants” and ineligible for asylum.

(http://www.wsws.org/asset/e885c20b-fc94-4438-8833-7df26983e87M/lead+pic.jpg?rendition=image480)

The newspaper said that the use of the military for deportations, unprecedented in Germany’s postwar history, will be part of a dramatic crackdown on refugees. Germany will not honour its unofficial moratorium on deportations during the winter months, and will cease giving refugees advance warning that they will be deported to prevent them from fleeing.

In addition, the German government is preparing to set up “transit zones” along its border, in substance little different from concentration camps, where refugees are to be held while their applications are processed.

German government officials did not deny the newspaper’s revelations. “Obviously, the usage of the Transall [troop carrier aircraft] is not ruled out,” Defence Minister Ursula von der Leyen declared. She added, with chilling casualness, that the aircraft would be made available “if it does not affect the German army’s priority missions.”

(http://www.wsws.org/asset/1287a1f5-e175-43a0-8202-e5fea358d41M/lageso05web.jpg?rendition=image480)
Image: Children sleeping on the ground at a refugee processing center in Berlin, Germany (Photographer Ludwig Niethammer)

The revelations follow the passage of a bill in the German parliament that slashes social aid to refugees who qualify for assistance and expands the number of countries from which refugees are to be denied asylum in accelerated proceedings.

Meanwhile, the countries on the major transit routes into Europe are intensifying their crackdown on refugees. The parliament of Slovenia approved the deployment of its army to the border on Tuesday night. An initial 140 soldiers are being stationed on the border and will have the authority to detain refugees and issue orders to local residents.

Shocking scenes are playing out on the borders between Slovenia and Croatia, Hungary and Croatia and Macedonia and Greece. Refugees are wading through ice-cold rivers, knee-deep in mud, soaked to the bone by rain or shivering from cold in temporary tent camps without heating and often having to sleep overnight on the ground.

“This is inhumane. We fled from war, from destruction. We lost everything: our families, our children. The bombs killed us,” Haidar, who fled from Iraq and is currently stranded on the Greek-Macedonian border at Gevgelija, told the German public broadcaster ARD.

The situation facing refugees on the so-called Balkan route has worsened dramatically following the closure of the Hungarian-Croatian border last Friday. Since then, refugees have been forced to extend their travel through Slovenia in order to reach northern and central Europe.

Over 12,000 refugees arrived in Slovenia on Thursday, and a further 12,100 refugees remain in Serbia awaiting passage into Croatia.

A fire broke out at a hugely overcrowded refugee camp in the Slovenian border town of Brezice on Wednesday, burning the majority of the emergency tents. It remains unclear whether the fire was set by refugees in protest of the abysmal conditions at the camp, or was the result of refugees using fires to keep warm in the cold rain.

On Wednesday, Zeid Ra’ad Al Hussein, High Commissioner for Human Rights, accused the Czech Republic of violating the human rights of refugees in order to deter them from entering the country.

In a statement, Zeid said:

    “According to credible reports from various sources, the violations of the human rights of migrants are neither isolated nor coincidental, but systematic. They appear to be an integral part of a policy by the Czech Government designed to deter migrants and refugees from entering the country or staying there.”

Measures cited by Zeid include the strip-searching of refugees in order to confiscate their money, which is then allegedly used to pay for their detention.

This week the EU opened the first “hot spot” internment camp on the Greek island of Lesbos. Refugees are to be registered there and have their asylum applications processed in expedited proceedings by officials from the Frontex border protection agency. The camp at Moria is expected to hold 2,500 people. But over the weekend, 5,000 new refugees arrived.

Last weekend alone, 16 refugees drowned on the crossing to Greece. On Friday, the Greek coast guard recovered the bodies of four children near the island of Kalymnos, and another boy remained missing. A further twelve refugees drowned near the Turkish coast when their boat capsized on the way to Lesbos.

According to the International Organization for Migrants, 473,000 refugees have arrived in Greece since the beginning of the year, overwhelmingly from the war zones in Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq. More than 150 have lost their lives.

Meanwhile, conditions confronting refugees stranded at the French port of Calais awaiting the chance to cross the Channel Tunnel have worsened catastrophically. The number of refugees in the camp has doubled to 6,000 in recent weeks. The refugees, including families with children, live in tents and huts they have built themselves.

“We stand on the verge of collapse,” said Jean-Francois Corty, director of French operations for Doctors of the World. The French government has proposed the construction of a new tent and container camp, but it would accommodate a mere 1,500 people and would not be ready until after winter.

The EU’s “humanitarian” response to the crisis has been largely nonexistent. The high-profile plans to resettle 160,000 refugees from Italy and Greece into other member countries has remained a dead letter, with just 19 refugees having been flown from Greece to Sweden. And from the much talked-about €2.8 billion for refugee aid, only a small fraction has been made available.

Title: Biking Across Borders
Post by: RE on October 23, 2015, 09:50:13 PM
What does a bicycle need to be up to Norwegian Safety Standards?  :icon_scratch:

Some Ruskie Oligarch is making a killing selling these bikes and shipping them up to the border.

RE

(http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/149FD/production/_86277448_moreborder.jpg)

(http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/171B7/production/_86274649_russia_norway_migrants_route_v2.jpg)

(http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/13DC2/production/_86264318_border2.jpg)

(http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/C892/production/_86264315_family_cut.jpg)

(http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/7CB6/production/_86262913_goodbikes.jpg)

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34602208 (http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34602208)

Seeking asylum on children's bicycles

  • 23 October 2015
  • From the section Magazine
 

In today's Magazine

Hundreds of migrants have cycled into Norway from Russia after finding a new route into Europe that avoids the deadly Mediterranean crossing. They are not allowed to cross the Arctic border on foot, so a lucrative trade in bicycles has opened up, with migrants buying bikes and pedalling the final few metres.

Fahed half squats and uses the palm of his hand to show me the height of the bicycle he rode across Russia's border with Norway. At full height he is about 5ft 10in tall but the hand he is gesturing with is about level with his knee.

"You rode a children's bicycle?" I ask.

"Yes, yes," He replies. "One for kids."

He smiles and then starts to laugh before taking another drag on his cigarette. He is from Algeria and speaks in broken English. He is one of an increasing number of migrants travelling overland into Russia and then north into the Arctic Circle to the point where the borders meet. In the whole of 2014 just seven asylum seekers crossed over the Storskog border crossing. In October alone there have been 1,100. Some are from Iraq, Afghanistan and Lebanon but most are from Syria.

They need a bicycle because the Russian authorities don't let people cross the Russian border on foot. Under Norwegian law, it is illegal for a driver to carry people into the country without the proper papers.

Fahed tells me he paid $200 (£130) for his bike when he arrived in Murmansk. He looks pleased with himself when he adds that the price included the taxi ride up to border crossing point - what he described as a "package deal". It's then that he made his one and only journey on his new purchase - cycling just 120m (130 yards) across the no-man's land between Russia and Norway.

Not taking into account the cost of the taxi ride, that works out at $1.60 per metre - probably one of the most expensive journeys in the world. But he has no regrets. He says it's a "small price to pay" to get to Europe.

All the asylum seekers are temporarily housed in the small nearby town of Kirkenes, which is hastily having to build a new reception centre to accommodate 500 more people.

The authorities take them from the border to the town by bus, so the bicycles get left behind at the border.

Most were made for children. A hundred or so are neatly stacked against the back wall of the border police's customs office, and these are just the bikes that have been collected over the past two days. Many are brand new. There's not a speck of rust on the chrome handle bars. Some still have protective bubble wrap on the frames, presumably from the factory where they were made, to stop them getting scratched.

What little sunlight there is bounces off the massed ranks of reflective mud guards. But this is a bicycle graveyard. Every two or three days they are collected up, taken away and crushed. It seems like a terrible waste - until the chief of the border police Stein Hansen takes a pair of handle bars in his bare hands, and with very little effort twists them into a u-shape.

He wishes the bicycles could be put to some use, he says, but by Norway's standards they are not fit for the road.

There's something slightly comical about seeing men on bicycles that are way too small for them.

Once they pass a red and green striped marker post, they are officially out of Russia. Freewheeling for a few more feet past the yellow barrier, they make it into western Europe.

As I watch, a young family appears, laden with luggage and carrying a baby. Exceptions can be made to the "no walking rule", it appears, as both the mother and father are on foot. Presumably their precious cargo gives them special dispensation.

However, each of them is also wheeling a bicycle with their free hand, so presumably this makes them cyclists and not pedestrians in the eyes of the law.

The reality is right now none of them care how absurd the rules are, nor how strange this looks.

The authorities here believe the numbers coming over can only grow.

Although the cold, wet landscape couldn't be more different than from the ones the migrants left behind, this Arctic road stays open, even in winter. Meanwhile the Mediterranean route - never safe - becomes even stormier.

Title: EXPOSED: The REAL cause of the sudden Syrian migrant crisis into Europe
Post by: RE on October 23, 2015, 10:07:13 PM
Now this is really fascinating.

RE

Video Link
http://shoebattube.com/player/embed_player.php?vid=1068&width=755&height=425&autoplay=no (http://shoebattube.com/player/embed_player.php?vid=1068&width=755&height=425&autoplay=no)

Article Link
http://therightscoop.com/exposed-the-real-cause-of-the-sudden-syrian-migrant-crisis-into-europe/ (http://therightscoop.com/exposed-the-real-cause-of-the-sudden-syrian-migrant-crisis-into-europe/)


EXPOSED: The REAL cause of the sudden Syrian migrant crisis into Europe
Posted by The Right Scoop on Oct 5, 2015 at 4:11 PM in Politics | 138 Comments
By The Right Scoop

Since this migration crisis began a few weeks ago, one question has been nagging me as to why all of a sudden many Syrians (and others) are headed to Europe. Why now? Did they all just get a mass email telling them to leave? It just seemed so strange. Well, we do have an answer now and it’s something you haven’t heard anywhere in the media.

Walid Shoebat interviewed a prominent Syrian analyst named Taleb Ibrahim. He’s a Shiite Muslim and an Arab nationalist who loves his Syrian country, it’s diverse people and his president, Bashar Al-Assad. He does not share the global Islamist aspirations of the Muslim Brotherhood Jihadis who are fighting in his country against Assad.

(http://therightscoop.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Talib-Ibrahim.jpg)

During the interview, Taleb Ibrahim explained how Erdogan is displacing the people in Syria. Erdogan is bringing thousands of Islamist Turks from other Turkish lands into Turkey, training them and then sending them into Syria to help fight Assad. He gives an example of a couple of Chinese villages that have recently cropped up inside Syria that he said both Erdogan and ISIS brought in to help fight Assad.

So basically he’s saying that Erdogan is pushing these people out of Syria and into Europe as he changes the demographics of Syria from Arabs to Islamist Turks, all for the sake of reviving the Ottoman empire!

I’ve transcribed the part of the interview that pertains to this as Taleb is sometimes hard to understand. The top portion is important background so you understand Turkey’s relationship to the other Turkish lands. He gives some very interesting information about it. The bottom part is the red meat.

    Walid: What is the difference between Jaysh al-Islam and Jaysh al-Fatah? Is this the same thing?

    Taleb: Jaysh al-Fatah is a military group that consists of Al-Nusra Front, Ahrar ash-Sham, and other extremists – the army of Turkestan, which is a province in the west of China, and the army of Turkmenistan. All of those military groups are correlated to Al Qaeda.

    Walid: Wait a minute here. Brother Taleb, are you telling me there are Turkmen, Turks fighting?

    Taleb: Yes, yes, Turks fighting. You know the Uyghurs, which is a Muslim minority in the west of China, from Turkish origin? They are talking in the Turkish language. They are very close to Turkmen people in Turkmenistan and middle of Asia. The government of Recep Tayyip Erdogan brought thousands of those and they trained them inside Turkey, and they sent them as one of the groups that is fighting under the flag of Jaysh al-Fatah, the army of conquer.

    The army of conquer, Jaysh al-Fatah includes Al-Nusra Front, the Khorasan Group….it includes the Turkestan groups, Turkmenistan groups, Ahrar ash-Sham, and other small fundamentalist and extremist groups, that are fighting in Idlib. Jaysh al-Fatah is fighting in Idlib to the north of Syria, by the Turkish border. And it is very much correlated to Turkish intelligence.

    Jaysh al-Islam is linked and very much correlated to Saudi intelligence. It is a Wahhabi army, very extremist army, fighting to the edge of Damascus. And sometimes Erdogan is sending some brigades to help Al-Nusra front and to help other Al-Qaeda aligned groups in some places in Syria and in some situations they are quarreling, fighting each other for rebels.

    Walid: Let’s go a little bit to history here. Jaysh al-Fatah, does this correlate to Muhammad al-Fateh or things of the Ottomans and their desire to occupy Syria?

    And the second question is, if it is an issue of a revolution to oust Bashar al-Assad…why is it we have foreign fighters from Turkmenistan, as you so eloquently explained, and from Xinjiang region in China, Islamists from there – why are these groups coming together and they are not even Syrians and are trying to occupy Syria? What is the Ottoman connection with all of this, historically speaking?

    Taleb: Of course Jaysh al-Fatah is coded, the name is coded from the early stages of Islam. When Muslim armies came to Syria, to Turkey – now it wasn’t Turkey at that time. Turkey is a very very young country in the history. And it’s a false country. It was the Eastern Christian Empire and the capital of the Eastern Christian Empire was at Antakya. Hatay province in Turkey, which we call in Syria Iskenderun region.

    So Turkish people, especially Recep Tayyip Erdogan, he has colonialist ambitions. He is trying to put his hands on some places in Syria. If you read their newspapers, if you listen to their TV channels, they consider Aleppo as a part of Turkey and they say that Syrian Arabs has stolen this area and so and so and so.

    So yes, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, which is a fascist and indeed a racist who wants only Turkish people to be in his border. He is bringing Turkish people from every place to fight President Assad to CHANGE the demographic structure of Syria.

    And we have reliable information…that there was a kind of demographic replacement inside Syria nearby the city of Ar-Raqqa. There are two Chinese villages. The people, the Arab citizens from those villages were killed or displaced and Erdogan and ISIS brought Chinese Uyghurs to settle in those two villages. The Syrian people told me this story and they said we call it now the two Chinese villages.

    Another issue. The Syrian migrators – you know what happened in Europe in the last few weeks? Those people were displaced by some people in the North of Syria. Erdogan brought hundreds, thousands of Turkmen minorities to settle in those villages to the North of Aleppo on the border strip.

    Walid: Brother Taleb, are you telling me this wave of immigration coming from Turkey, Syria, all these, is all manufactured by Erdogan, that he’s bringing those other foreign nationalities to Europe?

    Taleb: Exactly! Exactly! This is the truth behind this wave of migration. It’s a great demographic change.

So now you know why so many Syrians fled the region to head for Europe. It’s a manufactured crisis by Erdogan as he attempts to control Syria and bring back the Ottoman Empire.

You should really watch the full interview as Taleb Ibrahim discusses much more about this in detail. He and Walid even discuss how the dragon from Revelation 12 issues a flood (of immigrants) against the church (Christendom)!

He also explains what Russia is really doing in Syria, bombing both ISIS and islamist groups fighting against Assad. Taleb points out that the Syrian people, like himself, love the fact that Russia is there and support it completely.

And there’s much more in this very insightful interview. You won’t hear any of this in the media.

Read more: http://therightscoop.com/exposed-the-real-cause-of-the-sudden-syrian-migrant-crisis-into-europe/#ixzz3pSVQU8Ac (http://therightscoop.com/exposed-the-real-cause-of-the-sudden-syrian-migrant-crisis-into-europe/#ixzz3pSVQU8Ac)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Fenixor on October 23, 2015, 11:29:30 PM
As for the refugees on bikes, is it illegal to walk but not to bike over the border? strange rules. I heard there are lots of people coming to the unemployment office directly from Arlanda airport here in Sweden so guess they have some money. Also looked like it was mostly men cycling over the border. They seem happy now but I wonder how they will feel in 6 months after endless darkness, snow and cold. Also, tensions rising witin Sweden, another refugee shelter burned down yesterday. And "sword-guy" had left a suicide note implying it was a racially motivated crime.

The situation in Turkey is very fragile, in this video we hear about kurds and arabs clashing due to ISIS and PKK fighting at the Turkey - Syria border.
http://www.youtube.com/v/RI3EbmDP3Lc

Makes me wonder, when states collapse and people go back to tribe/small group thinking is it bound to create ethnic conflict?
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on October 23, 2015, 11:52:47 PM
As for the refugees on bikes, is it illegal to walk but not to bike over the border? strange rules.

Strange rules indeed.  It also makes me wonder why some of these guys don't buy a decent bike in Murmansk and save the money on train fare and cab fare and so forth and take a week or two to cycle their way up there?  They could then further save money cycling down through Norway to the Swedish border.

Quote
I heard there are lots of people coming to the unemployment office directly from Arlanda airport here in Sweden so guess they have some money. Also looked like it was mostly men cycling over the border. They seem happy now but I wonder how they will feel in 6 months after endless darkness, snow and cold. Also, tensions rising witin Sweden, another refugee shelter burned down yesterday. And "sword-guy" had left a suicide note implying it was a racially motivated crime.

This route looks like it is attracting mostly single men, not families.  the Families seem to be mostly stranded on the Serbian-Croation borders.  This type of migration is likely just to difficult to undertake with children in tow.

If the Sword Guy was Muslim and the victims native Swedes, that will seriously ratchet up anti-Muslim sentiment.

Quote
Makes me wonder, when states collapse and people go back to tribe/small group thinking is it bound to create ethnic conflict?

That is virtually guaranteed in a breakup of the one to the many.  Anyone outside your tribe is an "out-worlder".  Tribes come together to defend themselves against out-worlders.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on October 24, 2015, 12:05:50 AM
As for the refugees on bikes, is it illegal to walk but not to bike over the border? strange rules.

I wonder if you could do it on In-line Skates or an electric skateboard?

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on October 25, 2015, 07:09:54 PM
Just what we need - an embryonic 16-point plan of action.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/25/us-europe-migrants-summit-idUSKCN0SJ0BQ20151025 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/25/us-europe-migrants-summit-idUSKCN0SJ0BQ20151025)
Slovenia sees end to EU if leaders fail on migrant plan
Robin Emmott and Ivana Sekularac
Oct 25, 2015

The European Union faces collapse if the bloc cannot agree on a plan to confront the sudden influx of refugees through the Balkans, Slovenia's premier warned on Sunday as leaders bickered over who was to blame for the crisis.

Nine days after Hungary's move to seal its southern border drove unprecedented migrant flows into tiny Slovenia, Prime Minister Miro Cerar sent out a dramatic call to fellow central and eastern leaders in Brussels for emergency talks.

"If we don't find a solution today, if we don't do everything we can today, then it is the end of the European Union as such," Cerar said.

"If we don't deliver concrete action, I believe Europe will start falling apart," he told reporters.

Fleeing war and oppression to seek a new life in Germany and northern Europe, refugees have continued to come through the western Balkans and have shifted west into Slovenia after Hungary's border fencing was completed. Since Oct. 17, more than 62,000 migrants have arrived in Slovenia, with some 14,000 still passing through the country on Sunday.

Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban was unrepentant, describing his country as an "observer" in the crisis since the border closures and that he had no advice to give other leaders.

But such apparent detachment was not shared by many at the meeting. Macedonian President Gjorge Ivanov quoted U.S. independence hero Benjamin Franklin saying: "If we don't stick together we will hang separately."

With winter approaching, Jean-Claude Juncker, the EU's chief executive, called the leaders of Austria, Bulgaria, Croatia, Macedonia, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Romania, Serbia and Slovenia to Brussels to seek a common approach.

More than 680,000 migrants and refugees have crossed to Europe by sea so far this year from the Middle East, Africa and Asia, according to the International Organization for Migration.

Following years of economic crisis, Europe's governments are struggling to cope with an influx of people from countries including Syria, where Russia's intervention has complicated efforts to end nearly five years of civil war.

BORDER GUARDS

Despite an agreed framework to relocate some migrants already in Europe, a broader common policy is still embryonic, with this latest meeting trying to heal a rift over whether to welcome more migrants or toughen up the EU's external borders.

In a 16-point plan seen by Reuters, leaders will try to balance their approach, likely agreeing to send 400 border guards to the western Balkan border if the EU's frontier states drop their policy of giving arrivals passage to other countries.

Cerar said Croatia, which has already seen some 230,000 migrants pass through since mid-September, was still waiving migrants through into Slovenia without alerting Slovenia authorities.

In the draft statement, the leaders seek to speed up repatriations of people from South Asia, namely Afghanistan and Pakistan, whose asylum requests are rejected because they are simply seeking a better life and not fleeing war or oppression.

Germany, which has troops in Afghanistan helping to stabilize the country under a NATO mission, wants the European Commission to negotiate an agreement on returning people to Afghanistan whose asylum applications have been rejected.

"We commit to immediately increase our efforts to manage our borders," the draft said, which, if formalized, would also mean more ships off Greece to deter people traffickers, more land border checks in Macedonia and more money for border control.

Even with agreement on the 16-point plan, German Chancellor Angela Merkel cautioned that there would be no solution without Turkey, which was not invited to the meeting.

"We will not solve the refugee problem completely, we need, among other things, further talks with Turkey for that," Merkel said. "Only with Turkey we can switch illegality to legality. It is very important that the (European) Commission discusses further the migration agenda with Turkey," she said.

Brussels has presented Ankara with a so-called action plan in which Turkey receives EU funding to absorb more migrants fleeing Syria in return for easier travel rules to Europe and a broadening of long-running talks on eventual Turkish membership of the bloc.

That could mean the European Union sending some 3 billion euros ($3.31 billion) in aid.



Meanwhile in Cologne:
https://www.rt.com/news/319635-germany-cologne-protest-refugees/ (https://www.rt.com/news/319635-germany-cologne-protest-refugees/)
German police deploy water cannon as far-right, antifascists rally in Cologne
25 Oct, 2015

(http://palloy.net/images/Cologne.jpg)

Thousands rallied in Cologne on Sunday as supporters of the ‘Hooligans against Salafists' far-right group and their left-wing opponents took to the streets. Police had to deploy a water cannon in an attempt to control the counter-protest.

Law enforcers had earlier sought to ban Sunday’s demonstration by the far-rights. However, a Cologne court dismissed the motion and said the protesters would have the right to gather at a fixed location, but they would not be allowed to march through the city’s streets.

Title: Katy Bar the Door!
Post by: RE on October 25, 2015, 07:59:34 PM
KATY BAR THE DOOR!

(http://www.katybar.com/siteimages/back-CD-Katy-Legend-02.gif)

(http://daysgoneby.me/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/katie-bar-the-door-murray-bloom.jpg)

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Fenixor on October 26, 2015, 10:30:09 AM
110 year old Afghan refugee, both deaf and blind, seeks asylum in Germany

(http://gfx.aftonbladet-cdn.se/image/21504089/800/normal/f5da1f8bc1cfe/abdul.jpg)
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/paflykt/article21503819.ab (http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/paflykt/article21503819.ab)

People fight for their life to the bitter end
Title: New Drone Footage Captures Scope Of EU's Migrant Crisis
Post by: RE on October 26, 2015, 02:19:35 PM
This is looking more like the opening battle scene from The 300 every day...

RE

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-26/new-drone-images-capture-scope-eus-migrant-crisis-brussels-plans-refugee-holding-cam (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-26/new-drone-images-capture-scope-eus-migrant-crisis-brussels-plans-refugee-holding-cam)

New Drone Footage Captures Scope Of EU's Migrant Crisis As Brussels Plans Refugee "Holding Camps"

http://www.youtube.com/v/ZBa7pJo-yPg
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Fenixor on October 26, 2015, 03:01:18 PM
Slovenia to hire private security firms to manage migrant flows
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/c0cc0bf73ba9a0bb278e5e844cd0402331280b55/0_148_5408_3248/master/5408.jpg?w=1920&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10&s=0ea4004c057ef1265b8e204532355db8)
Up to 60 guards will be employed to assist police after more than 76,000 migrants and refugees arrived from Croatia in less than a fortnight.
To manage refugees travelling through the country toward northern Europe (Germany, Norway, and Finland seems like a popular choice)

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/26/slovenia-private-security-firms-manage-migrant-flows-refugees (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/26/slovenia-private-security-firms-manage-migrant-flows-refugees)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Fenixor on October 27, 2015, 03:36:22 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/MgZHvdMuB7M
Title: The Latest: Migrants occupy bus in Sweden, refuse chalets
Post by: RE on October 29, 2015, 04:13:25 AM
The never ending Refugee story...

A Collapse Gift that keeps on Giving.

RE

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/the-latest-austrian-chancellor-avoids-word-fence/2015/10/28/85be2e12-7ddf-11e5-bfb6-65300a5ff562_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/the-latest-austrian-chancellor-avoids-word-fence/2015/10/28/85be2e12-7ddf-11e5-bfb6-65300a5ff562_story.html)

The Latest: Migrants occupy bus in Sweden, refuse chalets

(https://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_1484w/2010-2019/Wires/Online/2015-10-29/AP/Images/APTOPIXGreeceMigrants-0a1f2.jpg?uuid=TcclpH4REeW_tmUwCl_1Yg)
A man wearing a thermal blanket reacts after his arrival in bad weather from Turkey on the Greek island of Lesbos in a dinghy, Wednesday, Oct. 28, 2015. Greece’s government says it is preparing a rent-assistance program to cope with a growing number of refugees, who face the oncoming winter and mounting resistance in Europe. (Santi Palacios/Associated Press)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Fenixor on October 29, 2015, 05:21:35 AM
Yes very problematic, especially since people from the far right keep publishing the locations of the refugee camps.
Title: Re: New Drone Footage Captures Scope Of EU's Migrant Crisis
Post by: Mercury on October 29, 2015, 06:32:56 AM
This is looking more like the opening battle scene from The 300 every day...

RE

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-26/new-drone-images-capture-scope-eus-migrant-crisis-brussels-plans-refugee-holding-cam (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-26/new-drone-images-capture-scope-eus-migrant-crisis-brussels-plans-refugee-holding-cam)

New Drone Footage Captures Scope Of EU's Migrant Crisis As Brussels Plans Refugee "Holding Camps"

http://www.youtube.com/v/ZBa7pJo-yPg

Europe is toast!  ;D. Holding camps? Free food, medicine and accommodation!  :laugh: :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: New Drone Footage Captures Scope Of EU's Migrant Crisis
Post by: RE on October 29, 2015, 10:03:35 AM
Europe is toast!  ;D. Holding camps? Free food, medicine and accommodation!  :laugh: :icon_mrgreen:

Yea, until they run out of room, food & medicine and bring back the gas chambers and the ovens.

Today's Refugee Stories.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/29/europe-greece-migrants-idUSL8N12T47W20151029 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/29/europe-greece-migrants-idUSL8N12T47W20151029)
Greece searches for 34 migrants off Lesbos, five children drown

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/10/29/human-rights-group-accuses-australia-paying-smugglers-to-turn-refugee-boats-around/ (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/10/29/human-rights-group-accuses-australia-paying-smugglers-to-turn-refugee-boats-around/)
Human rights group accuses Australia of paying smugglers to turn refugee boats around

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on October 29, 2015, 10:53:49 AM
Thats old news about the navy paying the smugglers to turn around,  its coming out again for the global audience because europe is trying to implement the australian system. Obviously turning back one or two boats with one or two hundred people on board  in a day or week, and building holding centres for probably ten thousand refugees is one thing. Doing that for almost ten thousand arriving EVERY DAY in europe on at least a hundred Zodiacs is obviously impossible. Giving all those billions of euros to Turkey to try and keep them there is probably pissing money away too, if  Indonesia is any guide.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on October 29, 2015, 11:52:52 AM
Thats old news about the navy paying the smugglers to turn around,  its coming out again for the global audience because europe is trying to implement the australian system. Obviously turning back one or two boats with one or two hundred people on board  in a day or week, and building holding centres for probably ten thousand refugees is one thing. Doing that for almost ten thousand arriving EVERY DAY in europe on at least a hundred Zodiacs is obviously impossible. Giving all those billions of euros to Turkey to try and keep them there is probably pissing money away too, if  Indonesia is any guide.

It's a pretty intractable problem overall.  Turkey certainly doesn't want to keep them even if you paid them to do it, because it destabilizes their country, just like it does to any country where you have a massive and rapid influx of people.  You also can't really seal any of these borders unless you start shooting people and sinking boats.   As long as there is profit to be made, you'll have plenty of people in the Human Trafficking biz.  They can't mine the waters, because then the regular boat traffic can't travel around.

If it keeps up at this pace, the shooting people and sinking boats thing is going to start eventually.

RE
Title: Refugee Border Video
Post by: RE on October 29, 2015, 05:15:18 PM
H/T Zero Hedge.

It's the Hungarian 300 against the Muslim Hordes this time.

There is no way to contain this.  Refugee Camps simply will not work.

RE

Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Fenixor on October 29, 2015, 05:30:05 PM
WTF what are the Hungarians trying to do, just shuffle people behind bars like cattle, of course it wont work
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on October 29, 2015, 05:47:06 PM
WTF what are the Hungarians trying to do, just shuffle people behind bars like cattle, of course it wont work

They're TRYING to keep the Cattle on the Croatian side of the Fence.  The Chinese built a WALL to keep out the Mongol Hordes, the Hungarians are trying to do it with fencing from Home Depot.  lol.

Check out that numbers differential too between the number of border guards and the number of refugees!  Eventually if they don't start using Water Cannon and Rubber Bullets at least, they are going to get rushed and overrun in a Stampede.

They absolutely have no plan at all to handle this.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Fenixor on October 29, 2015, 05:56:42 PM
They already are
Refugee crisis: Hungary uses teargas and water cannon at Serbia border – as it happened
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/9/16/1442420237802/563ddcf7-829c-4dd6-8f9e-ceb6a3501c66-2060x1236.jpeg?w=465&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10&s=9a57c485abbcfc32752b873219e1b3a3)
http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/sep/16/first-refugees-head-for-croatia-after-hungarys-border-crackdown-live-updates (http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/sep/16/first-refugees-head-for-croatia-after-hungarys-border-crackdown-live-updates)
Title: Australia’s Solution to the “Refugee Problem”: The “People Smuggling Industry”
Post by: RE on October 29, 2015, 11:21:33 PM
More on the "Oz Final Solution"

RE

http://www.globalresearch.ca/australias-solution-to-the-refugee-problem-the-people-smuggling-industry/5485337 (http://www.globalresearch.ca/australias-solution-to-the-refugee-problem-the-people-smuggling-industry/5485337)

Australia’s Solution to the “Refugee Problem”: The “People Smuggling Industry”

(http://www.dw.com/image/0,,17996005_303,00.jpg)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on October 30, 2015, 01:06:33 AM
Abbott's "Turn back the boats" policy has been conducted with great secrecy.  From Day 1 the Government's response to any question has been, "We do not discuss 'Operational Matters' because we don't want to telegraph our intentions to the people smugglers."  Now you can see why.

Apart from the concentration camps on Manaus (Niugini) and Nauru, financed by Australia, but nominally run by the locals with the assistance of some prison corporation, there is also the Thailand option.  Yes, the wealthiest and emptiest country in the region has decided to dump its asylum seekers on the poorest country in the region.  Despite paying them $40 million, Thailand has only got 4 "showcase" asylum seekers so far, and the project seems to have stalled.  I wonder why more haven't volunteered to become Thailanders?
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on October 30, 2015, 02:38:35 AM
This has been going on long before abbott, in fact starting with the vietnamese boat people in the late 70s. there was also the policies of john howard that stopped the flow, woomera rocket range in the desert next to radioactive nuclear testing site was a refugee camp. And temporary  visas that allowed refugees to stay as long as their country was unsafe to return to but if it stabilised had to go home and no provision to bring relatives. Most could prove they faced persecution like the sri lankan thamils or afghan hazaras, so were not sent home but because they could not also bring family most stopped coming.  Then there was the Labor policy to pay  other neighboring countries like malaysia to take refugees but accept the same number from other un camps that were already processed and approved by unhcr,  mainly somalis. Effectively if u come here illegally u just got one other refugee who applied legally approved, but u go somewhere else,  so u better go to your nearest embassy and apply legally. I dont know how successful that was, probably not very much.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on October 30, 2015, 03:17:23 AM
This has been going on long before abbott, in fact starting with the vietnamese boat people in the late 70s. there was also the policies of john howard that stopped the flow, woomera rocket range in the desert next to radioactive nuclear testing site was a refugee camp. And temporary  visas that allowed refugees to stay as long as their country was unsafe to return to but if it stabilised had to go home and no provision to bring relatives. Most could prove they faced persecution like the sri lankan thamils or afghan hazaras, so were not sent home but because they could not also bring family most stopped coming.  Then there was the Labor policy to pay  other neighboring countries like malaysia to take refugees but accept the same number from other un camps that were already processed and approved by unhcr,  mainly somalis. Effectively if u come here illegally u just got one other refugee who applied legally approved, but u go somewhere else,  so u better go to your nearest embassy and apply legally. I dont know how successful that was, probably not very much.

It's a long standing policy not doubt, and in the 70s-90s with relatively low migration numbers was workable.  It becomes unworkable when the flow rate gets up in the 1000/day territory, on a daily basis.  Just "processing" even "legitamate" claims for asylum takes bureaucratic time.  Social Security and Workman's Cop is probably EFFICIENT  compared to this!  I am sure you could be YEARS  in a refugee camp before hearing anything on your claim for asylum.

The number will overwhelm the system until/unless they can staunch the flow.  That is really hard to do, at least not until you start sinking boats and killing people.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on October 30, 2015, 04:31:01 AM
Yes RE they do spend YEARS in detention centres,  also with lawyers provided for appeals taking years. I agree these things cant be done in europe because the numbers are multiples more. The only positive thing i can say about the oz system is it provides good orientation with english lessons and other courses like computing, plus clear expectations of how it works with what u can and can't do once they r turned loose. Other than that its a vast waste of money that doesnt really end when they become full citizens, as a hell of a lot treat having children as an occupation. I dont think its an accident or coincidence that when the vietnamese came,  people were not paid more for every kid they have so they got ahead by being smarter and working harder than locals.  That seems to still be the American approach which overall  is the most fair and makes the most sense.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Fenixor on October 30, 2015, 09:00:50 AM
'In the long run our system will collapse'
Published: 30 Oct 2015 07:21 GMT+01:00 (http://www.thelocal.se/20151030/in-the-long-run-our-system-will-collapse-in-sweden (http://www.thelocal.se/20151030/in-the-long-run-our-system-will-collapse-in-sweden))

Sweden's outspoken foreign minister, Margot Wallström, has hit out at fellow EU member states over the refugee crisis, saying the union needs to do more to relieve the pressure on her country.

Wallström, who was deputy chairperson of the EU commission in 2004-2010, told the Dagens Nyheter newspaper that Sweden would be taking a tougher stance in summits in an attempt to secure financial support and help to accommodate the 140,000-190,000 asylum seekers the country is expected to receive in 2015.

Sweden is currently campaigning for other EU member states to take in a greater share of refugees fleeing violence in the Middle East and Africa. But the minister said negotiations have so far not produced the desired result.

“I have to admit that there have been moments recently of very great disappointment. I have heard statements from member states that have been completely astonishing and very discouraging,” Wallström said in the interview which was published on Friday morning.

An unprecedented number of people are expected to seek asylum in the Nordic nation in 2015 and while Prime Minister Stefan Löfven has widely praised his country's response to the crisis he has said that Sweden is "approaching the limit" of its reception capacity.

“I think most people feel that we cannot maintain a system where perhaps 190,000 people will arrive every year – in the long run, our system will collapse. And that welcome is not going to receive popular support,” said Wallström, echoing her Social Democrat colleague's comments.

Löfven is expected to push the same argument when he meets his UK counterpart David Cameron, leader of one of the countries reluctant to take in more asylum seekers, on Monday next week.

The meeting comes after representatives from six parties – the ruling Social Democrat-Green coalition and the opposition of the Moderates, the Liberals, the Centre Party and the Christian Democrats – agreed to request that the EU include Sweden in its refugee relocation scheme, alongside front-line states Italy and Greece, to ease the burden on the Nordic country.

Wallström told The Local in May that how the union manages the crisis is going to determine its record in the history books.

“What if we lived in a war zone? We would also want to flee somewhere safe with our children, or try to secure a future elsewhere. It has to do with whether or not we are serious in the EU about our guiding principles – this will affect our credibility,” says Wallström.
Title: Racist murder sparks Sweden’s Black Lives Matter
Post by: RE on November 01, 2015, 01:09:32 AM
Stockholm, we have a problem...

(http://treasure.diylol.com/uploads/post/image/315291/resized_winter-is-coming-meme-generator-brace-yourselves-the-houston-we-have-a-problem-jokes-are-coming-04bd57.jpg)

RE

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/10/racist-murder-generates-swedens-black-lives-matter.html (http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/10/racist-murder-generates-swedens-black-lives-matter.html)

Racist murder sparks Sweden’s Black Lives Matter
Title: A World of Death Camps
Post by: RE on November 01, 2015, 06:32:09 AM


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Published on the Doomstead Diner on November 1, 2015



 






Discuss this article at the Geopolitics Table inside the Diner



As each day and week goes by and the wave after wave of refugees keeps on streaming toward the Promised Lands of Germany & Sweden, it is becoming ever more clear that the Clowns in Brussels have no plan for handling this, and there likely is no plan that can, at least not one that meets the Humanitarian Ideals of the modern Westerner.



Why not?  Because the planet is in an extreme case of Overshoot with respect to the population of Homo Saps, and so that population has to shrink.  It is far too late even if it was ever possible to resolve the problem of overshoot through Family Planning, Birth Control and so forth, which are also conceits of modernity.  The fact the Chinese 1 Child Policy failed so miserably is testimony to the futility of trying to keep the population reigned in via this method.



If you can't keep the population in check by decreasing the Birth Rate, the only other way is on the other side of the Life Equation, by an increase in the Death Rate.  So it is inevitable that the Death Rate is going to increase, the only questions are: How will it increase, Where will it occur and Who will be the first to go to the Great Beyond?



In Europe, the origination point for what we call modernity today, there is a conflict between the Humanitarian Ideal of providing shelter and succor for the masses already displaced by climate change and war, and the fact they already themselves are in a situation of overshoot, although not as bad as the folks fleeing MENA nations.  Their economies are all tanking on their own, with massive youth unemployment and political instability all over the continent.



https://chronicle.fanack.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2014/10/population_SA_population-growth_001_02.jpgA few northern European countries like Germany and Sweden still seem flush enough to be able to afford taking in a few 10s of thousands of refugees, but those are not the kind of numbers we are talking about here.  We're talking 100s of thousands already on the move, and this number is likely to soar into the millions as time goes by here, at least if they don't die before they can get on the move.  Saudi Arabia by itself has 30M people, and probably cannot support more than 1M of them, if that.



The proximal cause for this mass migration doesn't appear to be starvation, it appears to be ongoing warfare and poverty.  That poverty though is the result of decreasing amounts of exportable Oil, and factions are fighting over who gets what is left of this shrinking pie.  The most powerful faction gets not most of it but ALL of it, and the weaker factions have no access to money to buy food, even if there still is some being shipped in there.  They can't even scratch out a living as poor subsistence farmers anymore, because years of drought and soil depletion have left many towns inhabited since Biblical times now uninhabited.  At first they moved into the larger cities, but of course there was no better opportunities there, and so they now are on the move to try to make it to Germany before they die where they are.



The migration route is long and dangerous on its own, even in good weather.  The boats making the water crossings are flimsy and overloaded as the Human Traffickers try to make as much money as they can off the misery.  On the overland portions of the journey, they have numerous borders to cross on the way to Germany or Sweden.  The countries in the Balkans in their path like Serbia, Croatia, Slovakia, Hungary etc don't want them there and can't afford to feed and house them while they make the transit either, so the ones that are still making it through are sleeping "in the rough", often out of doors without even a tent of their own.  These are not Backpackers with full gear for a hike out in the wilderness.  If you look at the masses of people walking to the border crossings, many just have the clothes on their backs, not even a suitcase.






Now, in warm weather, this is somewhat doable, although you still have to be pretty hardy for it.  If you ever slept on hard ground without even a sleeping pad you know what I mean.  However, once winter sets in or even late fall as you move north and also travel through mountainous areas (like the Balkans), night time temps can fall below freezing quite often.  You can't last long in this type of weather without real good winter gear.  Being an Alaskan now, I have winter gear out the wazoo and can dress for success for winter temps down to 40 Below if necessary, but these folks don't even have good winter jackets or gloves.  You don't need such things down in MENA, and I doubt there is anywhere they could buy them even if they have the money.  It would have to be ordered online, and I'm not sure FedEx is delivering in Syria and Afghanistan when it Absolutely, Positively has to get there Overnight before you make your Bugout for Sweden.  LOL.



So, if these migrants currently on the road numbering in the 100s of thousands distributed all along the route are not to begin FREEZING TO DEATH, they are going to need absolute MINIMUM tents provided and sleeping bags.  Who is going to put up these Tent Cities, where along the routes, how will Sanitation be provided, where will the Food and Water come from, who will pay for all of this?  Frankly, even with a decent tent and sleeping bag, if the days are cold as well while you are standing in lines waiting to cross borders, hypothermia can set in there also without decent winter gear on, and I doubt they will all be provided with Parkas, Balaclavas, Mittens, Ski Pants, long underwear, polypropylene socks, insulated boots etc.



http://i.ndtvimg.com/i/2015-09/syrian-boy-drowns-650-afp_650x400_51441283742.jpgBottom line, barring some complete MIRACLE, there are going to be a lot of DEAD PEOPLE on the Balkan Refugee Highway this year, although the amount of information that actually gets dispersed by the MSM is probably going to be quite small.  Pics of Frozen to Death Infants will not play well for TPTB on a competence level, although why anyone might think they are competent anymore is hard to fathom anyhow.  The Drowned to Death Infants already have them in trouble.



It's not just on the Refugee Highway you have a problem either, you have nearly as big a problem with the early arrivals who actually made it THROUGH to Germany and Sweden, because while they have set up some Refugee Tent Cities, in a Swedish Winter, a Tent is not going to be enough here.  It's already not enough, these encampments have been burning down, partially because you have locals unhappy about the arrival of these folks setting fire to them, but also just because the folks living in them start their own fires for cooking and to keep warm.  If you are going to house 10s if not 100s of 1000s of refugees, you're going to need to do a lot better than a few tents.  You will need a BIGGER BOAT.



 






Who is going to pay for this?  Food, Sanitation, HEAT FUEL for tents in the winter in Sweden?  That by itself will take more than a few cannisters of Propane.



They obviously at this point don't even have TIME to put up any better housing than Army Tents, you're talking only a couple of weeks more before pretty much full on Winter Weather hits in the northern latitudes.  Of course it will be a good deal colder in Jan-Feb, and then if you are still stuck in the Mountains, colder still.  So at this point, a high Death Toll amongst the refugees seems just about unavoidable.



http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45162000/jpg/_45162350_congocamp512.jpgLong term, the situation is no better.  How do you afford to put up something better than Tent Cities even if you work all through next spring and summer to do it?  Where will you build these housing developments, and how will mostly destitute refugees pay the rent?  Even if they HAD some money when they left Syria, by the time they finished the journey with the bribes and rip-offs along the way, they have pretty much shot their wad at that point.



So the alternative here is to try to STEM THE TIDE, and somehow STOP or at least slow down this Tsunami of Refugees before it revs up again next year when the weather improves in the Spring.  How do you pull off that stunt?



One idea is to hand over a few $Billion$ to Turks and Croatians for THEM to set up Refugee Camps!  Except, even if you pay them to do this, first off most of the money will go into some Oligarch's Swiss Bank Account, and second the current local population doesn't much fancy having a bunch of destitute people living in tents nearby.  So conflicts develop, at which point it starts costing Da Goobermint more money than they are getting pitched at them to handle the problem.  This is one problem you CAN'T handle just by throwing a lot of money at it.



This is not a new problem in Europe, it happened before, though not to this scale or at such speed because the global population was not so large back in the 1800s when the Ruskies began their Pogroms, driving the Jewish Population out of Mother Russia.




The term "pogrom" in the meaning of large-scale, targeted, and repeated anti-Jewish rioting, saw its first use in the 19th century, in reference to the anti-Jewish pogroms in the Russian Empire. Pogroms began occurring after the Russian Empire, which previously had very few Jews, acquired territories with large Jewish populations during 1791-1835. These territories were designated "the Pale of Settlement" by the Russian government, within which Jews were reluctantly permitted to live, and it was within them that the pogroms largely took place. Most Jews were forbidden from moving to other parts of the Empire, unless they converted to Orthodox Christianity.




For those Jews not killed on the spot there in those Pogroms, they had to engage in a Mass Migration, which was chronicled first on stage and then on film in "A Fiddler on the Roof".






It is estimated that some 2M Jews migrated out of Mother Russia in the late 1800s to early 1900s.  A few made it as far as Britain and the FSoA, but many more settled on the Migration Route, in Poland and in Germany.  They congregated in impoverished neighborhoods, like the Warsaw Ghetto.



In the Warsaw ghetto, Jewish children with bowls of soup. Warsaw, Poland, ca. 1940.https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/images/Holocaust/Warsaw_ghetto.jpg



We all know what happened after that of course.  When the Great Depression hit, the impoverished Jews were scapegoated as the cause of all the problems.  This time, when Uncle Adolf and the Nazis came to power, his solution was not to drive the Jews out of the country.  He had the FINAL SOLUTION to the problem.



http://www.profit-over-life.org/teachers_guide/images/germany/buchenwald_kz/buchenwald_crematorium_bones.jpg



This time around, it's not impoverished Jews being forced to migrate and ending up as impoverished Ghetto residents in Europe, it is impoverished Muslims ending up as Refugee Camp residents, for the time being anyhow.  But as the numbers swell and more arrive, the capacity to keep absorbing the influx begins to vanish.  For all but a few of the "richer" Northern European countries like Germany and Sweden, the capacity has already vanished.  Greece has 50% Youth Unemployment and is an economic basket case even without the 1000s of Syrians arriving each day on the shores of Kos and Lesbos.



http://i.imgur.com/HaoPH0c.jpg



The Clowns in Brussels want to assign the various members of the EU some target number of refugees to accept, to total up to something like 120K.  They can't even agree on this, and that number is a drop in the bucket.  There are ALREADY more on the move than that, and the number is only likely to get larger here as time goes by.



Is anybody setting up official Hitler-style Death Camps yet?  Not as far as we know, but the Refugee Camps that are being set up are already Unofficial Death Camps.  The living conditions are atrocious, they are overcrowded and disease will spread/is spreading  inside them.  In all likelihood the food supply reaching many of these encampents is probably pretty thin, and as winter sets in, the ability to heat the tents is also likely circumscribed by lack of fuel.  You don't NEED Zyclon-B produced by IG Farben here to do the Extermination Job this time, Mother Nature will do the job just fine.  What you will need are some Caterpillar Backhoes and Daiwoo Front End Loaders, because you are going to need to dig some mighty big mass graves.  You are going to have DEAD PEOPLE by the truckload here to dispose of.



https://cicisrant.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/dead-people.gif



Essentially what you have here is a World of Death Camps. Not in one spot like Germany back in the 1940s, but spread all over the world on the Migration routes between MENA and Europe, SE Asia and Australia and South America and North America.  There are millions on the move already here in all these locations, and more on the way.



Is there any way to stop this migration?  No, not really, not until it becomes more dangerous to undertake the journey than to stay where you are.  Currently, dangerous as such a journey is, it is more dangerous to stay in the war zones and drought ravaged neighborhoods than to roll the dice in a Refugee Camp.  Maybe you'll be one of the lucky ones to make it through to the Promised Land.  At least until the Promised Land itself is in similar condition, at which point those places turn into similar war zones as the one you are trying to leave.



Europe will be under continuing and escalating Refugee Migration problems for so long as Europe appears to be a better and safer place to live than the place you are trying to exit stage left from.  The efforts to stem the tide will mostly fail, and then there will be escalating local violence.  This will occur on the southern border of the FSoA also, and in Oz as well.  Electrified Fences and more Patrol Boats may slow this a bit for a while, but eventually the defenses fail, as they did for the Roman Empire, as Ugo Bardi has chronicled in numerous articles.



There is a Human Tsunami building here, and this is Not the End.  It is not even the Beginning of the End.  It is just the End of the Beginning.  Thank you, Winston Churchill.




Title: Re: Racist murder sparks Sweden’s Black Lives Matter
Post by: Fenixor on November 01, 2015, 07:08:06 AM
Stockholm, we have a problem...
RE
http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/10/racist-murder-generates-swedens-black-lives-matter.html (http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/10/racist-murder-generates-swedens-black-lives-matter.html)

Racist murder sparks Sweden’s Black Lives Matter


Hm, I'm not sure it's comparable to the US situation. Sure there is outrage, but amongst a majority of the population not just some immigrant kids. Also our population is not that heterogenous as the US which is built on immigration. But overall there is a backlash against taking in more immigrants but not solely on ethnic grounds, it more has to do with an incompetent government that reduces foreign aid and increases immigration. That the foreign minister (Margot Wallström) is saying to the press that we are close to a limit is more a show for the domestic audience. When you look at actual policies they have done nothing to improve the situation.

As for death camps, brutal theory there. Thinking ahead El Niño is picking up strength now Nov-Jan and could have serious impacts on food production, worldwide. Combining that with winter cold and poor shelters you are probably correct that disease could become a major factor in the overall death toll. But I still think it will take some time before we see a substantial decrease in overall global population. As I said before, for example, families that fled syria keep reproducing no matter their poor living conditions.
Title: Re: Racist murder sparks Sweden’s Black Lives Matter
Post by: RE on November 01, 2015, 07:35:15 AM

Hm, I'm not sure it's comparable to the US situation. Sure there is outrage, but amongst a majority of the population not just some immigrant kids. Also our population is not that heterogenous as the US which is built on immigration. But overall there is a backlash against taking in more immigrants but not solely on ethnic grounds, it more has to do with an incompetent government that reduces foreign aid and increases immigration. That the foreign minister (Margot Wallström) is saying to the press that we are close to a limit is more a show for the domestic audience. When you look at actual policies they have done nothing to improve the situation.

As for death camps, brutal theory there. Thinking ahead El Niño is picking up strength now Nov-Jan and could have serious impacts on food production, worldwide. Combining that with winter cold and poor shelters you are probably correct that disease could become a major factor in the overall death toll. But I still think it will take some time before we see a substantial decrease in overall global population. As I said before, for example, families that fled syria keep reproducing no matter their poor living conditions.

Well, I doubt Birth Control is very available to people living in War Zones or on the Refugee Highway.  Since they are going to keep having sex, they will keep having babies.

However, even if every last one of the current migrants freezes to death this winter, it's still only a drop in the bucket and won't do much to decrease Global Population.  Even 1M Dead People out of 7.2B is nothing.  What we don't know and probably never will is how fast the Death Rate is increasing inside the countries people are migrating out of.  My guess is that it is rapidly increasing.  Is this enough to start the population growth curve on a negative slope?  Probably not yet, but it will soon enough.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on November 01, 2015, 01:48:09 PM
Quote
The fact the Chinese 1 Child Policy failed so miserably is testimony to the futility of trying to keep the population reigned in via this method.

A few days ago China announced it was changing its One Child Policy to a Two Child Policy.  The Government claims the One Child Policy, which first started in 1978, had reduced the population by 400 million, so I don't think you could call it a failure at all, even if the true figure was less than that. Two children per family makes a lot more sense, and would bring about a very small decrease in population, due to deaths before parenthood, unless lifespan is increasing due to medical treatment.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html) , adopted by the UN in 1948, includes:
Article 13.2: Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.
14.1: Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.
16.1: Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family.
19: Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

All of which goes to show that such noble sentiments are great on paper, but have never been rights fully enjoyed by anyone, in any country, ever.  The whole thing is a farce.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on November 01, 2015, 02:01:19 PM
A few days ago China announced it was changing its One Child Policy to a Two Child Policy.  The Government claims the One Child Policy, which first started in 1978, had reduced the population by 400 million, so I don't think you could call it a failure at all, even if the true figure was less than that.

At the very least, it was a failure because it created a demographic nightmare of a vast population of old folks with few young ones to back them up.  Then you have the selective abortions & infanticides of females which created a demographic skew of the male-female ratio.  How you could possibly call this policy "successful" I cannot imagine.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on November 01, 2015, 05:15:25 PM
From 'the daily caller', refugees threaten to overload sewer system in small town...

German government officials have compelled a small town with just 102 people to take in approximately 750 migrants from Syria and other countries, The New York Times wrote Saturday.

Sumte, a small town at the western fringe of the former East Germany, was informed earlier this month by its municipal government that it had been assigned to accept over a thousand of the asylum seekers that have poured into Germany over the course of 2015. The number was so high that mayor Christian Fabel first thought it was a joke, but after a storm of local protest, the figure was lowered to 750, not out of sympathy but because it was believed a thousand would overwhelm the town’s sewage system.

The municipal government plans to house migrants inside an abandoned office building, but other than that, services for them will be scarce. Sumte has no school, no shops, and extremely limited public transportation options. Residents have expressed fears that the migrants, who are disproportionately young men, will bring a crime wave that will make it unsafe to go outside. Officials have responded by saying it will still be perfectly safe to go out at night, because the town’s streetlights will stay lit.

The Times’ write-up, by reporter Andrew Higgins, suggests the biggest problem for Sumte isn’t crime or other issues that could potentially arrive with the refugees, but rather the possibility that their arrival could make locals question the wisdom of nearly limitless immigration. The migrants, he says, have proved to be political boon for Holger Niemann, a member of the local council described as a neo-Nazi who seeks to preserve Germany’s “genetic heritage.




Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2015/10/29/russian-aircraft-menace-us-navy-come-within-one-mile-of-uss-reagan/#ixzz3qIBPxdc9 (http://dailycaller.com/2015/10/29/russian-aircraft-menace-us-navy-come-within-one-mile-of-uss-reagan/#ixzz3qIBPxdc9)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on November 01, 2015, 05:54:00 PM
The municipal government plans to house migrants inside an abandoned office building

Does the office building have heat, electricity, running water and cooking facilities?  If so, who pays for all of that?  Even without all of that though, this is likely an improvement over the bombed out buildings they lived in back in Syria.

The big problem of course is these guys likely do not speak Kraut, so even if there are some jobz in this town they can't fill out an application in Kraut.

So they'll all need to be on the Kraut Dole for at least a year while they take Kraut lessons...somewhere.  The local schools I suppose after hours?  They have some teachers available bilingual in Arabic and Kraut?

This isn't a recipe for a rising crime rate because the street lights will stay on?  Excuse me?

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on November 01, 2015, 06:06:18 PM
Also the link below the refugee story (re the rusky Jets and the ronny reagan off korea at the same time as the spratley island us fonops operation) is worth a click.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on November 01, 2015, 07:02:19 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a3/Tupolev_Tu-142_Krivchikov_2007.jpg/300px-Tupolev_Tu-142_Krivchikov_2007.jpg)

Tupolev Tu-142 Bear is an old, slow-speed, long distance, maritime surveillance plane, and wouldn't have "swooped down" on anything - it chugs along at 500 feet keeping an eye on naval exercises.

"Despite attempts to establish radio contact, the Russians did not communicate back, effectively violating generally accepted aviation practices."  - bullshit.  During exercises, enemy planes don't ever communicate.  What would they say, "Can I come and watch, please?"

"This latest swoop-by is another instance of well-noted Russian tactics over the past year. To intimidate other countries, Russian aircraft often violate airspace and engage in risky actions." - bullshit.  I doubt USS Raygun would have been intimidated by a Bear, which they would have been watching from 1,000 miles away.

US officials say ...



Title: Lesbos has run out of room to bury refugees killed at sea, mayor says
Post by: RE on November 02, 2015, 11:41:47 PM
How come they don't just bury them at Sea?  :icon_scratch:  Plenty of room there.

RE

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/11/2/no-room-to-bury-refugees-lesbos-mayor-says.html (http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/11/2/no-room-to-bury-refugees-lesbos-mayor-says.html)

Lesbos has run out of room to bury refugees killed at sea, mayor says

(http://america.aljazeera.com/content/ajam/multimedia/photo-gallery/2015/11/refugees-make-journey-to-lesbos-despite-deaths/_jcr_content/slideShowImages/slide1/image.adapt.960.high.Refugees_6.jpg)

Title: Re: Lesbos has run out of room to bury refugees killed at sea, mayor says
Post by: Eddie on November 03, 2015, 04:31:09 AM
How come they don't just bury them at Sea?  :icon_scratch:  Plenty of room there.

RE

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/11/2/no-room-to-bury-refugees-lesbos-mayor-says.html (http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/11/2/no-room-to-bury-refugees-lesbos-mayor-says.html)

Lesbos has run out of room to bury refugees killed at sea, mayor says

(http://america.aljazeera.com/content/ajam/multimedia/photo-gallery/2015/11/refugees-make-journey-to-lesbos-despite-deaths/_jcr_content/slideShowImages/slide1/image.adapt.960.high.Refugees_6.jpg)

Because they wash up on the beaches. Not good for tourism.
Title: Re: Lesbos has run out of room to bury refugees killed at sea, mayor says
Post by: RE on November 03, 2015, 08:41:31 AM

Because they wash up on the beaches. Not good for tourism.

You could bag them and weight them down with cement galoshes.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Fenixor on November 03, 2015, 11:20:57 AM
Sounds like a plan that could go very wrong with human bodies floating around the bay. But my guess is they won't do it for pure religious/cultural reasons. Also I started wondering, since humans are top predators how much toxins must there not be in a human body, not sure which is worse, to dump in the ocean, cremate or bury in the ground.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on November 03, 2015, 11:30:33 AM
Sky burial would be my preferred method, but I lack the proper terrain at present. Something to consider when I become a refugee.

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSYm12GRNmz6fbauEZoesg1jVQXTNtu8h2M9Z9g3QJTqG4wL3FTfg)
Title: Soylent Green, Once Removed
Post by: RE on November 03, 2015, 11:38:47 AM
Sounds like a plan that could go very wrong with human bodies floating around the bay.

I think well weighted and bagged they would be devoured by fish and bacteria before floating up.

If this turns out to be a problem though, you could grind them up in Wood Chippers and use them for Pig Food!  Soylent Green once removed!  :icon_sunny:

(http://www.arounddublinblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/dublin-ca-stop-feeding-the-dsrsd-pigs.jpg)

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_1aDuxC5haXc/Smn0rJgXkuI/AAAAAAAAA0c/OgojJrVMvGA/s400/Soylent-Green.gif)

RE
Title: Re: Soylent Green, Once Removed
Post by: Fenixor on November 03, 2015, 12:02:49 PM
I think well weighted and bagged they would be devoured by fish and bacteria before floating up.
If this turns out to be a problem though, you could grind them up in Wood Chippers and use them for Pig Food!  Soylent Green once removed!  :icon_sunny:
RE

Well I'm presuming underfunded services would have a hand in messing that up, also it's cheaper to dig a hole in the ground than to go out and buy cement and stuff for ocean burial. Actually why don't they just cremate the bodies, takes up less space and lower health risk but does use more energy. As for your second idea, no comment.
 
Title: Re: Soylent Green, Once Removed
Post by: RE on November 03, 2015, 12:22:28 PM
I think well weighted and bagged they would be devoured by fish and bacteria before floating up.
If this turns out to be a problem though, you could grind them up in Wood Chippers and use them for Pig Food!  Soylent Green once removed!  :icon_sunny:
RE

Well I'm presuming underfunded services would have a hand in messing that up, also it's cheaper to dig a hole in the ground than to go out and buy cement and stuff for ocean burial. Actually why don't they just cremate the bodies, takes up less space and lower health risk but does use more energy. As for your second idea, no comment.

Burning Corpses takes a LOT of energy!  They don't just light up on their own you know.

(http://www.south-central-media.co.uk/kr-page/Gothic,1986).jpg)

For the Burial at Sea method, you don't necessarily need to use cement. A nylon fishnet bag allowing fishies to come in and feed plus some rocks to weight it down will do.

Pig Food makes the most Recycling Sense though.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on November 03, 2015, 12:28:21 PM
No burning. We have enough carbon to sequester already. Buzzards and coyotes, I say.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on November 03, 2015, 12:35:21 PM
No burning. We have enough carbon to sequester already. Buzzards and coyotes, I say.

The most Energy Efficient method is to bypass the Pigs, Buzzard and Coyotes and just Eat the Dead.  This resolves both Food Insecurity Problems and Burial Problems.

(http://www.cmust.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/maxresdefault237-1024x576.jpg)

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on November 03, 2015, 12:42:26 PM
You can live through the winter on meat, but  you have to harvest it while there's still plenty of fat.

I know I read about that somewhere.

Maybe Krakauer? Jack London? Who was it that wrote that story?
Title: Re: Soylent Green, Once Removed
Post by: monsta666 on November 03, 2015, 12:47:37 PM
Pig Food makes the most Recycling Sense though.

RE
Feeding the pigmen to the pigs? Are you sneakily peddling the Orkin man theory on us once again?

Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on November 03, 2015, 12:51:39 PM
You can live through the winter on meat, but  you have to harvest it while there's still plenty of fat.

I know I read about that somewhere.

Maybe Krakauer? Jack London? Who was it that wrote that story?

Jack London I think.

Drowned Refugees look like they still have decent amount of fat on them, especially the kids.  BABY LAMB CHOPS! (http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/2015/01/11/requiem-for-baa-baa/)

(http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Baby_Lamb-1024x895.png)

re
Title: The Flow Towards Europe- Refugee Interactive Infographic Map
Post by: RE on November 03, 2015, 05:20:34 PM
http://www.lucify.com/the-flow-towards-europe/ (http://www.lucify.com/the-flow-towards-europe/)
Great map!

h/t Zero Hedge

RE


The Flow Towards Europe

Only a fraction makes it to Europe

The United Nations estimates that half a million Syrian refugees have sought asylum in Europe between April 2011 and September 2015. Standing very tighly together, they would fit on 8 soccer fields.

Only a small fraction of refugees fleeing their homes make it to Europe. The UN has registered four million Syrian refugees in Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, Egypt and North Africa. Most of them live in refugee camps close to the border. They would fit on 59 soccer fields.

A novel visualisation of the refugee crisis

Lucify teamed up with Ville Saarinen to build a novel visualisation of the European refugee crisis. We aimed to convey the magnitude of the crisis in a way that is intuitive, memorable and engaging.

You can view the result here. The project is available as open source on GitLab.

In this blog post we explain our choices regarding the visualisation.
The data

The UN refugee agency (UNHCR) publishes monthly counts of new asylum seekers for each origin-destination country pair based on information collected by the relevant agencies in the destination countries. We know, for example, how many Syrian refugees arrived in Germany in August 2015.

This dataset only contains a part of the story. For example, the two million Syrian refugees in Turkey are not counted as asylum seekers, but registered refugees. While the UNHCR publishes some data about registered refugees, it is not as comprehensive as with asylum seekers.

Limited by the available (reliable) data, we chose to focus on the European perspective of the crisis, and show only asylum seekers arriving in Europe. Thus we can work exclusively with the UNHCR’s asylum seekers dataset.
Individuals as moving dots

This project started with the hunch that showing each refugee as one moving dot on a map could be a powerful way to convey the magnitude of the crisis. After building a proof-of-concept, we recognized that such a visualization does not only show the scale of the numbers, but also beautifully tells the story of what those numbers mean.

However, the true scale of the crisis was made very clear to us: if each asylum seeker was represented by a dot, there would be too many dots to display. The map would become too crowded — not to mention performance issues. We could ignore performance by rendering a video, but that would not allow for any interaction. And interactions are important.

We decided to have each pixel represent 25–50 refugees, depending on device characteristics.
Migration routes, starting points and endpoints

The UNHCR dataset does not contain any information about migration routes. Some fairly anecdotal information on migration routes is available, but there is no obvious way to combine it with the asylum seeker data in a meaningful way.

We had similar challenges with choosing starting points and endpoints within each country. In principle, we know that, for example, most Iraqi refugees come from specific regions, or that Germany has large reception centres in certain cities.

Showing exact routes, starting points or endpoints is not important when merely aiming to illustrate the scale of the crisis. On the other hand, by showing direct migration routes, we can make the flows between specific countries clearly visible.

We did some experimentation on using random starting points and endpoints within each country. In the end, we decided to use a single origin and destination point located at each country’s centroid — map-speak for the center of mass of the country. This makes it easier to see where refugees are coming from and going to.
Arrival and start days

The dataset contains information about how many asylum seekers have arrived in a given month. To choose arrival dates for refugees, we spread that amount randomly throughout the month. Additionally, we assigned each refugee a random speed between 4 and 6 km/h. We then calculated the start date based on the journey length, speed and arrival date.

The speed range that we chose corresponds to an average human’s walking speed. Of course, refugees move by different means, including walking, flying, or riding a boat, train or car. They also sleep. An average speed of 5 km/h is consistent with the claims in this Finnish article that an asylum seeker’s journey from Syria to Finland typically takes weeks or months.

Again, representing travel times correctly is not important for the purpose of demonstrating the scale of the crisis. Therefore we consider using such a rough figure acceptable.
Interactions

The used dataset contains a lot of data that cannot be shown all at once. Hovering over a country makes data associated with that country visible. Destination and origin countries are coloured with an opacity relative to each country’s relative weight. Interpolated refugee counts are also shown. They are counts of actual refugees, not moving dots.

Hovering over the timeline graph lets users quickly move in time to points of interest. This interaction ended up being one we like quite a bit. First of all, the graph makes it easy to spot and jump to points where changes happen. Second, moving back and forth in time quickly while looking at the map provides an intuitive grasp of how massive the refugee situation becomes.
The Sankey diagram

Since we had to do some unorthodox tricks to make the moving pixels possible, it is necessary to also show the original data without any approximations or interpolations.

We chose a Sankey diagram with appropriate interactions for focusing on individual countries. It is based on Mike Bostock’s Sankey example.
Final words

The map visualisation incorporates some novel ideas while using some unorthodox tricks. We believe that the compromises are worth it, and that the end result is not only informative, but intuitive, memorable and engaging.

The visualisation is available as open source. The implementation involves some interesting ways to use React, D3.js and PIXI.js together. We might write another blog post about the technical details in the future.

We would be thrilled to see others use our work to create meaningful visualisations. Please let us know if you need help with it.

Finally, we are happy to receive any feedback.

Juho Ojala and Ville Saarinen
Title: Swedish Police Forcibly Evict 100 Roma
Post by: RE on November 03, 2015, 05:42:21 PM
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/11/3/swedish-police-raid-roma-camp-evict-over-100.html (http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/11/3/swedish-police-raid-roma-camp-evict-over-100.html)

Swedish police raid Roma camp, evict over 100

(http://america.aljazeera.com/content/ajam/articles/2015/11/3/swedish-police-raid-roma-camp-evict-over-100/_jcr_content/image.adapt.445.low.Roma_malmo_main.jpg)

Police forcibly cleared the camp after residents failed to meet the city's deadline to clear out
November 3, 2015 10:22AM ET

Police forcibly removed about 100 people from a makeshift Roma camp in Sweden's southern city of Malmö early on Tuesday, ending a long standoff over the site that has fueled tensions over immigration.

Dozens of police arrived before dawn to clear out residents who had ignored a weekend deadline to leave the cluster of caravans and huts made of plywood and plastic in an empty lot, deemed unsanitary in a court order last week.

“They surrounded us, began dragging away people, dragged them through the gravel,” a protester called Samuel told Swedish news agency TT. Others protested against the clearance outside the city hall.

Roma, mostly from Romania and Bulgaria, are free to travel to Sweden as EU citizens. But a recent increase in arrivals has alarmed city authorities, and triggered criticism from a growing political far right who say the country is a soft-touch for migrants.

“One cannot just settle anywhere in Sweden,” center left Prime Minister Stefan Lofven told TT.

About another 100 Roma had already left the site after the court order.

Sweden is also preparing to take in about 190,000 refugees from Syria, Iraq, and other war zones — part of a surge in arrivals straining resources across the continent.

Arsonists have attacked a number of asylum centers in Sweden in recent months.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: edpell on November 03, 2015, 06:00:29 PM
Welcome to the world of diversity Sweden. Not everyone behave like you do. Decide how much you are willing to give and then decide what you will do when you reach that limit. In other words grow up. 
Title: Merkel's Refugee Policy Opens Pandora's Box (RT Audio)
Post by: RE on November 03, 2015, 06:05:01 PM
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on November 03, 2015, 07:03:37 PM
Welcome to the world of diversity Sweden. Not everyone behave like you do. Decide how much you are willing to give and then decide what you will do when you reach that limit. In other words grow up.

IMHO, the Swedes as well as the Krauts are likely to start limiting their immigration policies shortly.  They are simply creating too much political instability in both countries.

The problem of course is that you can't stop the people who are trying to migrate from doing so, which means you will get a backup of refugees inside the border countries with the least resources for handling the problem.  Mainly places like Turkey, Serbia and Croatia right now, then moving to Austria and Hungary.

This of course will politically destabilize these countries, and more right wing neo-nazi types will crop up.  More burning of refugee encampments etc as time goes by.

The Europeans will drop back, and the migrants will begin to die along the migration route.  The Balkans will cease to be livable countries and will become the DEATH ZONE for millions trying to exit MENA and make it to the Promised Land of Europe.

In the Northern European countries, they will fire up the furnaces once again, for a new Final, FINAL Solution.

It will take a few years to play out.  While ongoing, the populations of the MENA countries will begin to decrease, slowly at first but gathering speed with time.  The migration Tsunami will then begin to recede as the migratory population of impoverished people begins to die off.

As the attempt to migrate tapers off, the local battles between factions will escalate, until enough are dead that the local resources can support the survivors.  In all probability this will have an undershoot component where the population drops maybe as low as 10% of what the resources could actually support.  Europe will likely drop to a population of less than 10M Human Souls over a period of 20-30 years IMHO.

RE

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Fenixor on November 03, 2015, 10:40:03 PM
Welcome to the world of diversity Sweden. Not everyone behave like you do. Decide how much you are willing to give and then decide what you will do when you reach that limit. In other words grow up.
IMHO, the Swedes as well as the Krauts are likely to start limiting their immigration policies shortly.  They are simply creating too much political instability in both countries.The problem of course is that you can't stop the people who are trying to migrate from doing so, which means you will get a backup of refugees inside the border countries with the least resources for handling the problem.  Mainly places like Turkey, Serbia and Croatia right now, then moving to Austria and Hungary.
This of course will politically destabilize these countries, and more right wing neo-nazi types will crop up.  More burning of refugee encampments etc as time goes by.
The Europeans will drop back, and the migrants will begin to die along the migration route.  The Balkans will cease to be livable countries and will become the for millions trying to exit MENA and make it to the Promised Land of Europe. In the Northern European countries, they will fire up the furnaces once again, for a new Final, FINAL Solution. It will take a few years to play out.  While ongoing, the populations of the MENA countries will begin to decrease, slowly at first but gathering speed with time.  The migration Tsunami will then begin to recede as the migratory population of impoverished people begins to die off. As the attempt to migrate tapers off, the local battles between factions will escalate, until enough are dead that the local resources can support the survivors.  In all probability this will have an undershoot component where the population drops maybe as low as 10% of what the resources could actually support.  Europe will likely drop to a population of less than 10M Human Souls over a period of 20-30 years IMHO.
RE

Yes it is true Sweden's immigration policy has been inconsistent but in my opinion there should be a difference between people migrating due to war and threat of survival (e.g. Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan) and people migrating due to economic reasons (e.g. beggars from Romania). One reason the clearing of the romani camp down in Malmö has made it into the news is because the prime minister said "It's the home countries responsibility" (a big difference from how it sounded a year ago) and because there were protesters getting arrested for trying to stop the police. There is major resistance to further immigration in both Germany and Sweden now but that is also because other European countries are refusing to share the burden. So, what goes first, I think is the EU since countries can no longer get along or agree on anything. Especially the immigration issue. Also, let's not forget that most of the refugees are internally displaced or in a neighbouring country so Europeans complaining about all the migrants is childish and unjust since they happily consumed much of the world's resources.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on November 03, 2015, 11:15:45 PM
in my opinion there should be a difference between people migrating due to war and threat of survival (e.g. Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan) and people migrating due to economic reasons (e.g. beggars from Romania).

I personally do not see a lot of difference here with this.  They all are migrating for the same reason, there simply is no good opportunity for life for them where they currently are.  Sure, some places are worse than others with bombs falling all the time, but your chances of a decent life if you are born in a slum in Romania aren't too good either.  So in both cases you want to migrate to the Promised Land of Sweden, where you have at least been told that everybody gets a paycheck from Da Goobermint even if you can't find a job.

It is the PERCEPTION  amongst the migrants is that if they can successfully make the migration, their lives will be substantially improved by this, and thus it is a risk worth taking.  This was very true a decade ago, and those who managed to get out in those days did pretty good, at least relatively speaking against those they left behind who did not get out back then.  Thing here is, this is quickly no longer true.  Life in a Refugee Camp in Sweden is not going to be full of opportunity.  The Camps will be attacked by the neo-Nazi types, composed of mostly young men who themselves have little opportunity but were born Swedes and see the immigrants as their competition and enemy.

As I said in my prior post, I think this is a temporary phenomenon. The migration routes are simply going to become too dangerous to traverse as time goes by.  In the longer term, the problem will be the fight between the locals in a given neighborhood over the resources which remain.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on November 03, 2015, 11:23:55 PM
Isnt it the case that if u are a citizen of any eu country u can move to any other eu country  easily to work and live?  All the poor south and east euro countries should just accept any number  Merkel wants,  then let them go on to Germany and northern europe where they wanted to go.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Fenixor on November 04, 2015, 12:39:17 AM
Yes there is free movement within the EU, and sure people migrate because they will find a better life elsewhere. However, criminal gangs profit from sending poor people in east europe to north europe to beg and many times they end up having a shitty life on the cold streets of Sweden. So I'm not so sure they are better off here than on a farm in Romania where they at least have access to fertile land (even if they lack formal employment). In syria you cannot even farm any longer, there are no prospects whatsoever thanks to all the destruction by militant groups and involved state actors. Moreover, the entire MENA region will likely become uninhabitable due to climate change and failed states. So if a country only can take in a certain number of people without collapsing their own ecological basis for survival then shouldn't that country try and help the most vulnerable first?
Title: Re: Soylent Green, Once Removed
Post by: Surly1 on November 04, 2015, 01:43:16 AM
For the Burial at Sea method, you don't necessarily need to use cement. A nylon fishnet bag allowing fishies to come in and feed plus some rocks to weight it down will do.

Pig Food makes the most Recycling Sense though.

RE

http://www.youtube.com/v/QJPgngJr5jA
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on November 04, 2015, 08:38:30 AM
Roma are being completely squeezed out in the west, along with the homeless and anybody else who isn't a good little consumer.

 I have no love for the Roma, whose primary occupation is burglary, but i wonder how it will be when someday we have huge numbers of people who can't make it anymore in the mainstream economy. Where will they spend the night?
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on November 04, 2015, 08:51:06 AM
Roma are being completely squeezed out in the west, along with the homeless and anybody else who isn't a good little consumer.

 I have no love for the Roma, whose primary occupation is burglary, but i wonder how it will be when someday we have huge numbers of people who can't make it anymore in the mainstream economy. Where will they spend the night?

Probably squatting in all the foreclosed on McMansions.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: edpell on November 04, 2015, 10:15:28 AM
shouldn't that country try and help the most vulnerable first?

No. They should take the ones that will help their country the most. Take the healthy genius over the crippled person with an IQ of 65. 

I am pretty sure our difference is a gender thing. A difference in preference, no right or wrong involved.   
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on November 04, 2015, 10:26:56 AM
shouldn't that country try and help the most vulnerable first?

No. They should take the ones that will help their country the most. Take the healthy genius over the crippled person with an IQ of 65.

So you support Eugenics then as a Final Solution?

In reality, they shouldn't take anybody at all, since they themselves are already in an Overshoot situation, just not as far overshot as the Syrians.

Unfortunately of course, securing the borders is another matter entirely and so is maintaining law & order within their own borders.  I seriously doubt they will be able to test people for their IQ to determine if they are "in" or "out".

On this question, if you COULD do IQ testing to determine who lives and who dies, should Swedes kick out any Native Swedes with an IQ of 65 and let in Syrians with an IQ of 135?

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: edpell on November 04, 2015, 10:31:14 AM

Probably squatting in all the foreclosed on McMansions.

RE

I know a young middle aged couple. They got divorced. The wife has a very well paying government job. The husband just retired from the military. They had stopped paying the bank on the house loan several years ago. The wife moved out to an apartment. The husband is staying in the house for free with his new younger girl friend. No mortgage, no taxes. You see the banks and the town/county government are our friends. 

I stupidly still pay taxes.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on November 04, 2015, 11:17:40 AM
Yes there is free movement within the EU, and sure people migrate because they will find a better life elsewhere. However, criminal gangs profit from sending poor people in east europe to north europe to beg and many times they end up having a shitty life on the cold streets of Sweden. So I'm not so sure they are better off here than on a farm in Romania where they at least have access to fertile land (even if they lack formal employment). In syria you cannot even farm any longer, there are no prospects whatsoever thanks to all the destruction by militant groups and involved state actors. Moreover, the entire MENA region will likely become uninhabitable due to climate change and failed states. So if a country only can take in a certain number of people without collapsing their own ecological basis for survival then shouldn't that country try and help the most vulnerable first?

Those syrians are not all former farmers but were mostly middle class, thats why they could spend 10k or more to get there. My understanding is they are not allowed to work until they are full citizen, then u will have a range of all sorts of professions among them. Whether they will get to use those skills and quals again, i dont know. It depends on how much recognition or accreditation there is for each one. If they even packed their resume and it wasnt buried under rubble when they set off.

 If the roma are gypsies,  then they are just doing what they have always done. They would not want a  job indoors at ikea or accomodation in the kind of solid structures that it seems the govts are scrambling to provide refugees before winter. They WANT to live in tents and caravans 'on the fringe', so live and let live.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on November 04, 2015, 11:51:13 AM
[quote author=edpell link=topic=4708.msg90201#msg9

No. They should take the ones that will help their country the most. Take the healthy genius over the crippled person with an IQ of 65.   
[/quote]

That already exists as skilled and business migration. Immigration departments give certain number of points for things that contribute to the economy like a degree,  especially if its from a western university,  or qualification as a tradesman and subtract points for things like disabled children, then give preference.

Then there is the programs that used to be eg u have  1m $ and a proposal for a business they allowed u to immigrate. Now chinese fatcats have made the immigration depts get too greedy, so eg in oz they have changed the rules to simply handing the govt 5m$ that they take and 'invest'.

 All thats not applied to asylum seekers though, their criteria is are they persecuted where they came from.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: edpell on November 04, 2015, 12:34:02 PM

 should Swedes kick out any Native Swedes with an IQ of 65 and let in Syrians with an IQ of 135?

RE

This gets to the question what is the purpose of a nation state or a particular nation state. So far they seem to me to be run to enrich the already rich. From that point of view yes they should kick out all below 80 IQ and accept a chosen number to come in with IQ over 140, high level of education, exception good health.

I do not see any nation state being run for the benefit of the common man. Would I like to live in a nation state that was run for the benefit of the citizens? YES! Not holding my breathe.   
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on November 04, 2015, 12:45:34 PM
I do not see any nation state being run for the benefit of the common man. Would I like to live in a nation state that was run for the benefit of the citizens? YES! Not holding my breathe.

They're all corrupt, but which places are better than others? Cuba maybe? I still wouldn't want to live there. Iceland? Maybe if I could speak the language and get a job permit.

From what Fenixor said, maybe Finland. I do have a Harley and a leather jacket.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CPR5jh6UEAA9KjT.jpg)

My future peeps, the patriotic (and gender equal) Finns.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Fenixor on November 04, 2015, 01:04:39 PM
Those syrians are not all former farmers but were mostly middle class, thats why they could spend 10k or more to get there. My understanding is they are not allowed to work until they are full citizen, then u will have a range of all sorts of professions among them. Whether they will get to use those skills and quals again, i dont know. It depends on how much recognition or accreditation there is for each one. If they even packed their resume and it wasnt buried under rubble when they set off.

If the roma are gypsies,  then they are just doing what they have always done. They would not want a  job indoors at ikea or accomodation in the kind of solid structures that it seems the govts are scrambling to provide refugees before winter. They WANT to live in tents and caravans 'on the fringe', so live and let live.

I have nothing against gypsies, if all lived roaming like nomads we would probably not be in this mess, and it is a great adaptive capacity. But in Sweden you are not allowed to build shantytowns in the city, not yet any way. I do know there are gypsies in trailers out in camping places outside cities. Perhaps city folk are less tolerant. I'm just saying how people view the situation right now, and that is that we should accept people fleeing war but since many people agree we must limit immigration the roma become the target. Although I know that there are many who are frustrated over taking in somalis and afghans which usually lack any kind of formal education I don't think countries should decide immigration policy based on IQ or place of origin. I think it's cowardly of countries like Finland which has plenty of resources to not accept any immigrants since we accepted 185 000 Finns during WW2.

We all understand the limits to growth and limited resources, which rich countries have consumed the majority of, but we also know that humanity will probably only survive in the far north and far south, I am not ready to say "well too bad for everyone else"
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on November 04, 2015, 01:14:06 PM
Quote
Eddie: I have no love for the Roma, whose primary occupation is burglary

Spoken like a true racist. 
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on November 04, 2015, 01:34:42 PM

 should Swedes kick out any Native Swedes with an IQ of 65 and let in Syrians with an IQ of 135?

RE

This gets to the question what is the purpose of a nation state or a particular nation state. So far they seem to me to be run to enrich the already rich. From that point of view yes they should kick out all below 80 IQ and accept a chosen number to come in with IQ over 140, high level of education, exception good health.

Full blown Eugenics then!  There's a test you don't want to fail!  What if your kid comes in with a 79 IQ when she's 10 years old?  Boot her out the door too?

In your new Sweden of All Geniuses, who gets to take out the trash as a Sanitation worker?  How about taking some guy with an IQ of 75 but who stands 6'6", weighs in at 245 like Big John and can single handedly with no help from machines dig up 16 Tons of coal in a day with just  pick axe, shovel and wheel barrow?  Your society doesn't need some of those too?  Only geniuses?

http://www.youtube.com/v/GdIHBaQ9eJs

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on November 04, 2015, 01:35:30 PM
Quote
I think it's cowardly of countries like Finland which has plenty of resources to not accept any immigrants since we accepted 185 000 Finns during WW2.

Half of all the Finns I have met (1 out of 2) thought that their country was already overrun with bloody Swedes.  The other was a blonde-haired, blue-eyed Finn, who thought the country was overrun with police.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread - Big Bad John lives
Post by: azozeo on November 04, 2015, 01:40:18 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/figKrE4wZiA&fs=1
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on November 04, 2015, 01:47:59 PM
Quote
Eddie: I have no love for the Roma, whose primary occupation is burglary

Spoken like a true racist.

Perhaps it isn't their primary occupation, but it does seem to be their avocation. Call me whatever you like. I didn't give them that reputation, they earned it on their own, long before you or I were born. I don't have any personal knowledge, I'll admit. I only know what I read, from sources like Orlov and some others who find them interesting.

Perhaps I am a racist. It is true that I don't want Syrians or Nigerians or Eritreans camping out on my lawn. You take 'em in, St. Francis.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Fenixor on November 04, 2015, 01:59:19 PM
Quote
I think it's cowardly of countries like Finland which has plenty of resources to not accept any immigrants since we accepted 185 000 Finns during WW2.

Half of all the Finns I have met (1 out of 2) thought that their country was already overrun with bloody Swedes.  The other was a blonde-haired, blue-eyed Finn, who thought the country was overrun with police.

291 000 Swedes (Swedish speaking) in Finland and at least 500 000 Finns (Finnish speaking) in Sweden but then their population is smaller. Well, they are pretty much against any minority and my friend told me many "Swedes" in Finland belong to the upper class and so people don't like them all that much.

1. Sweden
Refugees: 142,207
Asylum Seekers: 56,784
Returned Refugees:0
Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs): 0
Returned IDPs:0
Stateless Persons: 27,167
Various: 0
Total Population of Concern: 226,158

3. Finland
Refugees: 11,798
Asylum Seekers: 1,754
Returned Refugees:0
Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs):0
Returned IDPs: 0
Stateless Persons: 2,293
Various:0
Total Population of Concern: 15,845

http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49e45bb01.html (http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49e45bb01.html)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: azozeo on November 04, 2015, 01:59:51 PM
Quote
Eddie: I have no love for the Roma, whose primary occupation is burglary

Spoken like a true racist.

Perhaps it isn't their primary occupation, but it does seem to be their avocation. Call me whatever you like. I didn't give them that reputation, they earned it on their own, long before you or I were born. I don't have any personal knowledge, I'll admit. I only know what I read, from sources like Orlov and some others who find them interesting.

Perhaps I am a racist. It is true that I don't want Syrians or Nigerians or Eritreans camping out on my lawn. You take 'em in, St. Francis.



How ya' fellin' about Reptillians, Arcturians & Andromedans.
They're here......

http://www.youtube.com/v/yVX1xItZAOo&fs=1
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: azozeo on November 04, 2015, 02:03:21 PM
Quote
I think it's cowardly of countries like Finland which has plenty of resources to not accept any immigrants since we accepted 185 000 Finns during WW2.

Half of all the Finns I have met (1 out of 2) thought that their country was already overrun with bloody Swedes.  The other was a blonde-haired, blue-eyed Finn, who thought the country was overrun with police.

291 000 Swedes (Swedish speaking) in Finland and at least 500 000 Finns (Finnish speaking) in Sweden but then their population is smaller. Well, they are pretty much against any minority and my friend told me many "Swedes" in Finland belong to the upper class and so people don't like them all that much.

1. Sweden
Refugees: 142,207
Asylum Seekers: 56,784
Returned Refugees:0
Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs): 0
Returned IDPs:0
Stateless Persons: 27,167
Various: 0
Total Population of Concern: 226,158

3. Finland
Refugees: 11,798
Asylum Seekers: 1,754
Returned Refugees:0
Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs):0
Returned IDPs: 0
Stateless Persons: 2,293
Various:0
Total Population of Concern: 15,845

http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49e45bb01.html (http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49e45bb01.html)


Fx,
You cats have a small country & I "feel your pain"
We could stick 'em all out here in the Mohave.
They could race their camels, eat their dogs, have war games, & nobody would notice.
We could even have a hunting season on em' for the Duke brothers. Fit it in after the SuperBowl & before spring break.
Ask the mob, they've been loosing bodies here for decades.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on November 04, 2015, 02:19:36 PM
[How ya' fellin' about Reptillians, Arcturians & Andromedans.
They're here......


No off-worlders, please. They start off all nice and all....and then first thing you know, they're going for the old anal probe.

http://www.youtube.com/v/N6cnqqXgXAY&fs=1
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on November 04, 2015, 02:21:56 PM
How about taking some guy with an IQ of 75 but who stands 6'6", weighs in at 245 like Big John and can single handedly with no help from machines dig up 16 Tons of coal in a day with just  pick axe, shovel and wheel barrow?  Your society doesn't need some of those too?  Only geniuses?

That has me thinking of junior. Not the sharpest tool in the shed, but takes home 5x 1st places on athletics day and runs 100m in the 11s at 15 yrs. You need more than geniuses if u want worker bees, musicians, artists and athletes.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on November 04, 2015, 02:26:01 PM
Swedish people find the word "Swede" to be offensive, right? It's derogatory, no?

 
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Fenixor on November 04, 2015, 02:47:38 PM
Swedish people find the word "Swede" to be offensive, right? It's derogatory, no?

No, I was just trying to find a suitable translation for finn-swede, swede-finn, which are acknowledged minorities in both countries and make up their own communities (speak a specific type of finnish or swedish)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: edpell on November 04, 2015, 05:56:59 PM
Refugees a once in a lifetime opportunity for the eugenic improvement of the European stock. Allow in people with characteristic you find desirable (yes I am wimping out and avoiding the whole issue of what exactly). Of the indigenous people without the desired traits should be offered life long welfare payments in exchange for being sterilized.

I can feel the flames already.   
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on November 04, 2015, 06:14:56 PM
Quote
I can feel the flames already.   

Yeah, well deliberately starting a flame war should be punishable by excommunication.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on November 04, 2015, 06:41:36 PM
Refugees a once in a lifetime opportunity for the eugenic improvement of the European stock. Allow in people with characteristic you find desirable (yes I am wimping out and avoiding the whole issue of what exactly). Of the indigenous people without the desired traits should be offered life long welfare payments in exchange for being sterilized.

Who decides what is a desirable trait?  :icon_scratch:    What do you do if people with undesirable traits refuse to be sterilized and have more guns than you?

How are you going to test for desirable and undesirable traits and precisely what are they?  How do you weight other types of gifts like musical ability, artistic ability, athletic ability, hard working not lazy, good looks vs ugly etc?

You have a lot of logistical problems here you have to spell out before you can implement your once in a lifetime Eugenics Plan for Europe.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: edpell on November 04, 2015, 06:49:51 PM
I did not say what is desirable. It is a pointless discussion. No such thing will happen. The Chinese would love to gene engineer but that is still 80 years out.

If I could engineer my kids I would want

1) internal production of vitamin C
2) really good memory short and long term
3) better lower back structure
4) resistance to near nearsightedness


 
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: edpell on November 04, 2015, 06:53:38 PM
The new European creed?

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Current population of Europe according to Google 750 million. I wait with baited breath to hear how many the generous open hearted people of Europe are deciding, via democratic means that is the EU president, to accept.

750 million more? 1500 million? only 375 milllion?
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on November 04, 2015, 07:11:57 PM
750m sounds high to me, this isnt just EU right?
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on November 04, 2015, 07:32:49 PM
I did not say what is desirable. It is a pointless discussion.

(http://www.rageboy.com/mbimages/cover-clip-hitler-youth-0674014960.jpg)
(http://worldwar2words.weebly.com/uploads/2/6/1/5/26158429/712428666.jpg?237)
That was precisely my point.  Eugenics is a numbskull idea.  You can't selectively breed people like dogs and cats.  You would need absolute power to do it, and as we all know, absolute power corrupts absolutely.  Uncle Adolf already tried this stunt with the criteria of Blond, Blue Eyed people, but Adolf himself was neither blond or blue eyed.

Far as Genetic Engineering goes, we would do about as good a job there as with GMO food.

It was your brainstorm though, attempting to light up the board with a flame war.  It didn't work.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on November 04, 2015, 07:44:37 PM
Quote
It isn't just the EU is it?

No, the Aussies are doing their bit - 4 families already have taken part in the photo-op, receiving their visas.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/one-of-the-rare-good-days-peter-dutton-gives-first-visas-to-syrian-iraqi-families-under-expanded-program-20151103-gkq2nc (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/one-of-the-rare-good-days-peter-dutton-gives-first-visas-to-syrian-iraqi-families-under-expanded-program-20151103-gkq2nc)
4 Nov 2015

(http://www.smh.com.au/content/dam/images/g/k/q/2/y/t/image.related.articleLeadwide.620x349.gkq2nc.png/1446610777383.jpg)
Peter Dutton hands refugee visa to Marwan Alkhdah and family. Photo: Nick Miller

On Tuesday in Amman [Australian Immigration Minister Peter] Dutton gave out the first refugee visas granted under Australia's temporarily-expanded resettlement program.

The visas were handed over personally by the minister to four families: two that fled the war in Syria, and two Christian families who fled Iraq and now want to join relatives already in Australia.

In September the Australian government announced that, in response to the Syrian conflict and the growing migrant crisis in the Mediterranean, it would add 12,000 places for from Syrians and Iraqis to the 13,750 it takes through the United Nation's resettlement program – a total of 25,750 vulnerable refugees offered a new life.

But as things stand the addition is a one-off, with the "normal" visa count to go back down to 18,250 in 2018/19.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: edpell on November 04, 2015, 07:47:45 PM
But the need is far greater. These racists must be forced by the UN to do the right thing. Ten Millions for Australia this year. 
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on November 04, 2015, 11:23:44 PM
But the need is far greater. These racists must be forced by the UN to do the right thing. Ten Millions for Australia this year.

Put a lid on it EP.  The Eugenics match didn't work, and this one won't either.

Obviously Oz is not going to accept 10M immigrants, and besides there aren't 10M moving in that direction quite yet.  Besides that the UN couldn't enforce such an order anyhow.

What the UN will do is make some kind of paper policy statement on "Human Rights" that absolutely nobody pays attention to.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Surly1 on November 05, 2015, 03:21:59 AM
Quote
I can feel the flames already.   

Yeah, well deliberately starting a flame war should be punishable by excommunication.

If that measure were consistently applied, there would be perhaps four to six posts per day here.
Tumbleweeds and crickets.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Surly1 on November 05, 2015, 04:08:52 AM
Right wing agitprop, or a simple statement of truth?

Muslim Man Warns Germans: "We Will Marry Your Daughters And Conquer You With Births" (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-04/muslim-man-warns-germans-we-will-marry-your-daughters-and-conquer-you-births)

 

Tyler Durden's picture
 

A week ago, we showed a video of what we hoped was not representative of the general sentiment among Germans towards the refugee crisis  as two ladies suggested,"Every year 2-3 million arrive...it’s generally about foreign infiltration." Now we have the other side as the following video shows a muslim man threatening a German that "his daughter will wear a headscarf and marry a Muslim and that Germans stand no chance with their low birth rate," adding that muslims will will "conquer Europe not with weapons, but with birth rates."

 

This, according to the mulsimman in the video, is the alleged punishment by Allah, the almighty god himself, for the acts of "colonizing and exploiting their countries so they can drive Mercedes and have digital cameras".

 

Given this video, whether right-wing propaganda or not, as we detailed previously, anger is spilling over to the common people: "In Freiberg in Saxony on Sunday evening demonstrators tried to stop asylum seekers reaching a refugee centre. The protesters tried to stop a bus with refugees from driving further down the road by staging a sit-in.

Some people threw apples at the bus, while others set off bangers, the Süddeutsche Zeitung reported.

Around 50 counter-demonstrators also turned up to the anti-refugee sit-in and there were tense verbal stand-offs between the two groups, although police confirmed the situation did not escalate into violence."

Meanwhile in Mecklenberg-Western Pomerania, two local politicans have been threatened by people with presumed far right motives, reports the Hamburg Abendblatt.

...

And with xenophobia slowly on the rise, the far-right elements are stirring: "Meanwhile in Mecklenberg-Western Pomerania, two local politicans have been threatened by people with presumed far right motives, reports the Hamburg Abendblatt."

Patrick Dahlemann of the Social Democratic Party (SPD) had his car attacked with butyric acid. The foul smelling chemical was poured onto his vehicle. 

On his Facebook page Dahlemann said that he would not be intimidated in his efforts to foster a “a real culture of hospitality” in the poor north-eastern state.

Party colleague Susann Wippermann also suffered threats when an unknown person wrote “traitor to the nation” on her car windscreen.

This follows a warning last week from the Federal Office of Investigation (BKA) which warned that politicians who support refugees face increased danger of attack from far right groups. Earlier in October Cologne Mayor Henriette Reker was stabbed while campaigning for election by an assailant with self-declared anti-refugee motives.

*  *  *

As Raul Ilargi Meijer recently noted, however, this ignorance and denial threatens to lead to a needless increase in nationalism, fascism, violence, misery, death and warfare. If we were to acknowledge that the change is inevitable, and prepare ourselves accordingly, much of this could be avoided.

There are two main engines of change that have started to transform the Europe we think we know

First, a mass migration spearheaded by the flight of refugees from regions in the world which Europeans have actively helped descend into lethal chaos.

Second, an economic downturn the likes of which hasn’t been seen in 80 years or so (think Kondratieff cycle).

Negative ideas about refugees are already shaping everyday opinion and politics in many places, and this will be greatly exacerbated by the enormous economic depression that for now remains largely hidden behind desperate sleight-of-hands enacted by central bankers, politicians and media.

*  *  *

And now we have Merkel...

  • *MERKEL SAYS REFUGEES IN GERMANY MUST STICK TO THE RULES
  • *MERKEL: MUST BE CLEARER ABOUT RETURNING FAILED ASYLUM-SEEKERS
  • *MERKEL: 2 EU PILLARS UNDER ATTACK IN EURO, FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT
  • *MERKEL: BUSINESS SHOULD SEE REFUGEE CRISIS AS OPPORTUNITY

In other words - you're welcome!

Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on November 05, 2015, 04:36:23 AM
Right wing agitprop, or a simple statement of truth?

Propaganda.  Intermarriage rates between disparate communities are very low, and besides that their divorce rate is high. That is in good times when things are going swimmingly well.  How many native Swedish women do you think would don a Burkha and marry a Syrian immigrant?  If it was even 1% I would be surprised.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: azozeo on November 05, 2015, 05:13:42 AM
Right wing agitprop, or a simple statement of truth?

Propaganda.  Intermarriage rates between disparate communities are very low, and besides that their divorce rate is high. That is in good times when things are going swimmingly well.  How many native Swedish women do you think would don a Burkha and marry a Syrian immigrant?  If it was even 1% I would be surprised.

RE



Those ragheads are dreamin'
Back in the day, when I was in college, we had a number of Iranian
students on campus. They smelled horrible from not showering,
They perfumed. The stench would wake the dead.
The Germans along with the Dutch & other northern EU cultures
are squeeky clean, borderline anal retentive about cleanliness.
I know, my 2nd wife was from Amsterdam. They aren't going to accept
these misfits 1 iota. Try as they might, the Syrian's will be lucky to survive
1 harsh German winter. Their Saharan blood is to thin to adapt quickly, maybe over time.
No Bueno goin' on here. 
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on November 05, 2015, 05:52:52 AM
Right wing agitprop, or a simple statement of truth?

Propaganda.  Intermarriage rates between disparate communities are very low, and besides that their divorce rate is high. That is in good times when things are going swimmingly well.  How many native Swedish women do you think would don a Burkha and marry a Syrian immigrant?  If it was even 1% I would be surprised.

RE



Those ragheads are dreamin'
Back in the day, when I was in college, we had a number of Iranian
students on campus. They smelled horrible from not showering,
They perfumed. The stench would wake the dead.
The Germans along with the Dutch & other northern EU cultures
are squeeky clean, borderline anal retentive about cleanliness.
I know, my 2nd wife was from Amsterdam. They aren't going to accept
these misfits 1 iota. Try as they might, the Syrian's will be lucky to survive
1 harsh German winter. Their Saharan blood is to thin to adapt quickly, maybe over time.
No Bueno goin' on here.

The communities of immigrants will be Ghetto-ized, this is already occuring with refugee camps.  A very few will make it out of these Ghettos to become part of the "normal" society, for as long as that lasts.  Food flowing into these camps will reduce over time, disease will run rampant and most will die before ever having opportunity to intermarry with or even rape the local population of females.

Besides that, the migrations will eventually dwindle as it becomes even more dangerous to undertake a migration than to try and survive where you are.  Most people will stay where they lay and what remains of Homo Sap will be very local again.  Most folks will never travel more than a few miles from where they were born.

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: g on November 05, 2015, 06:01:42 AM
 
Quote
Most folks will never travel more than a few miles from where they were born.

RE

That is an unbelievably true fact. Always wondered about it, as it pertains to me as well. My brief travels were forced upon me by conscription in the Army. Amazing how the great  majority of us don't stray very far for long from our birthplace.  :icon_scratch:
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on November 05, 2015, 06:05:33 AM
Quote
Those ragheads are dreamin' Back in the day, when I was in college, we had a number of Iranian students on campus. They smelled horrible from not showering, They perfumed. The stench would wake the dead.

More racism, dripping with evil.
Boy, are you all going to be surprised when you have to flee the fallen States of America, and have the worldwide hatred of Amerikans heaped on you.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: azozeo on November 05, 2015, 06:08:56 AM
Quote
Those ragheads are dreamin' Back in the day, when I was in college, we had a number of Iranian students on campus. They smelled horrible from not showering, They perfumed. The stench would wake the dead.

More racism, dripping with evil.
Boy, are you all going to be surprised when you have to flee the fallen States of America, and have the worldwide hatred of Amerikans heaped on you.


HAHAHAHAHAH
So what your saying is......
You're willing to cozy up to smelly UN-kempt humans.
Hmmmmmm.
C.mon scarecrow, get a brain  :evil4:
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: azozeo on November 05, 2015, 06:58:07 AM
Quote
Those ragheads are dreamin' Back in the day, when I was in college, we had a number of Iranian students on campus. They smelled horrible from not showering, They perfumed. The stench would wake the dead.

More racism, dripping with evil.
Boy, are you all going to be surprised when you have to flee the fallen States of America, and have the worldwide hatred of Amerikans heaped on you.


Pal,
You are correct.
I am racist against smelly people.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: azozeo on November 05, 2015, 07:20:34 AM
Quote
Those ragheads are dreamin' Back in the day, when I was in college, we had a number of Iranian students on campus. They smelled horrible from not showering, They perfumed. The stench would wake the dead.

More racism, dripping with evil.
Boy, are you all going to be surprised when you have to flee the fallen States of America, and have the worldwide hatred of Amerikans heaped on you.



http://www.youtube.com/v/Uo-QIY7ys-k&fs=1
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: azozeo on November 05, 2015, 07:29:07 AM
Quote
Those ragheads are dreamin' Back in the day, when I was in college, we had a number of Iranian students on campus. They smelled horrible from not showering, They perfumed. The stench would wake the dead.

More racism, dripping with evil.
Boy, are you all going to be surprised when you have to flee the fallen States of America, and have the worldwide hatred of Amerikans heaped on you.


http://www.youtube.com/v/N5Up-k4Lho8&fs=1
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on November 05, 2015, 07:33:27 AM
Right wing agitprop, or a simple statement of truth?

Propaganda.  Intermarriage rates between disparate communities are very low, and besides that their divorce rate is high. That is in good times when things are going swimmingly well.  How many native Swedish women do you think would don a Burkha and marry a Syrian immigrant?  If it was even 1% I would be surprised.

RE

The intermarriage part is wrong, imho, but current demographic trends indicate that Muslims will continue to gain percentage share of population by outbreeding everyone else, and therefore their political influence is in an ascendancy.

 It is not racist, imho, to talk about this, because it just happens to be true. Numbers don't lie.

http://www.pewforum.org/2011/01/27/the-future-of-the-global-muslim-population/ (http://www.pewforum.org/2011/01/27/the-future-of-the-global-muslim-population/)


Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: azozeo on November 05, 2015, 07:41:56 AM
Right wing agitprop, or a simple statement of truth?

Propaganda.  Intermarriage rates between disparate communities are very low, and besides that their divorce rate is high. That is in good times when things are going swimmingly well.  How many native Swedish women do you think would don a Burkha and marry a Syrian immigrant?  If it was even 1% I would be surprised.

RE

The intermarriage part is wrong, imho, but current demographic trends indicate that Muslims will continue to gain percentage share of population by outbreeding everyone else, and therefore their political influence is in an ascendancy.

 It is not racist, imho, to talk about this, because it just happens to be true. Numbers don't lie.

http://www.pewforum.org/2011/01/27/the-future-of-the-global-muslim-population/ (http://www.pewforum.org/2011/01/27/the-future-of-the-global-muslim-population/)



Palloy doesn't seem to realize that - "Going through life LOOKING for reasons to be offended is no-bueno".
But he is where he is. I have to tolerate his position as he has to learn to tolerate mine
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on November 05, 2015, 08:05:12 AM
Quote
Those ragheads are dreamin' Back in the day, when I was in college, we had a number of Iranian students on campus. They smelled horrible from not showering, They perfumed. The stench would wake the dead.

More racism, dripping with evil.
Boy, are you all going to be surprised when you have to flee the fallen States of America, and have the worldwide hatred of Amerikans heaped on you.

You know, Palloy, I think you are just a little quick to rush to judgment. Exactly how many people in the world, anywhere, are completely free of racial bias? Not many. I can tell you that. And when strong religious differences get thrown into the mix, it gets a lot more complicated.

There are at least a fair number of Muslims out there who would gladly commit genocide against non-Muslims, given the opportunity. And they are attracting converts from the West from among their more tolerant fellows. These are facts.

So then am I to be unconcerned? Should I welcome all comers of any race, religion, or language into my neighborhood...just because I'm above all that low behavior? And because they, after all, are political refugees turned out of their homes by the Imperial war machine? Even though it creates a crisis related to the proportioning of scarce resources, like medicine and social services and food?

I wouldn't expect any foreign country to welcome me as a refugee, in any case. Especially one with a different language and a different culture. To think they should or would is magical thinking.







Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: K-Dog on November 05, 2015, 08:22:16 AM
Size matters.  If ME men get the rep that they are packing serious sausage German white girls are gonna wanna have fun.  On the flip side Arab women can be beautiful under their veil but the threat of a serious beat-down from daddy will keep them home.  The ME men are definitely the winner in this situation.  But they need that rep first.

(http://x.imagefapusercontent.com/u/hotstuff5/5246835/1733106132/bo24.jpg)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: g on November 05, 2015, 10:10:46 AM
Size matters.  If ME men get the rep that they are packing serious sausage German white girls are gonna wanna have fun.  On the flip side Arab women can be beautiful under their veil but the threat of a serious beat-down from daddy will keep them home.  The ME men are definitely the winner in this situation.  But they need that rep first.

(http://x.imagefapusercontent.com/u/hotstuff5/5246835/1733106132/bo24.jpg)

 :exp-laugh: :exp-laugh: :icon_mrgreen: :emthup:   
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Fenixor on November 05, 2015, 10:11:35 AM
Propaganda.  Intermarriage rates between disparate communities are very low, and besides that their divorce rate is high. That is in good times when things are going swimmingly well.  How many native Swedish women do you think would don a Burkha and marry a Syrian immigrant?  If it was even 1% I would be surprised.
RE

Most of previous immigrants from Iran, Chile, Poland and the Balkans are well integrated with a second or third generation fully incorporated into Swedish society. But many times these people have been well educated and not very religious and so have adapted well.

According to a Swedish doctoral thesis "Love aint got no color?" it varies a lot but background is important to about half of all Swedes. Of these people more are open to relationships with people from Latin America (73%) than Asia (64%) or the Middle East (55%). The biggest reason was fear of inequality in the relationship and exposure to different ethnicities through friends and family (i.e. less exposure = more negative to interracial marriage).
http://chaplin2.bibl.liu.se/liupubl/disp/disp2011/arts533s.pdf (http://chaplin2.bibl.liu.se/liupubl/disp/disp2011/arts533s.pdf)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on November 05, 2015, 10:20:59 AM
The biggest reason was fear of inequality in the relationship and exposure to different ethnicities through friends and family

I can assure you that this is a big issue here as well. My very liberal female family members are not fans of Muslim culture at all, and it's because of the way they see the men treat the women. And they think the women who hide behind the hijab are weak-willed and/or lazy and juvenile in their thinking.

Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on November 05, 2015, 10:37:52 AM
Size matters.  If ME men get the rep that they are packing serious sausage German white girls are gonna wanna have fun.  On the flip side Arab women can be beautiful under their veil but the threat of a serious beat-down from daddy will keep them home.  The ME men are definitely the winner in this situation.  But they need that rep first.

(http://x.imagefapusercontent.com/u/hotstuff5/5246835/1733106132/bo24.jpg)

Talk about a deep-seated sense of inadequacy, LOL. That fear is as old as time.

IAGO
'Zounds, sir, you're robb'd; for shame, put on
your gown;
Your heart is burst, you have lost half your soul;
Even now, now, very now, an old black ram
Is topping your white ewe. Arise, arise;
Awake the snorting citizens with the bell,
Or else the devil will make a grandsire of you:
Arise, I say.

BRABANTIO
What, have you lost your wits?

RODERIGO
Most reverend signior, do you know my voice?

BRABANTIO
Not I what are you?

RODERIGO
My name is Roderigo.

BRABANTIO
The worser welcome:
I have charged thee not to haunt about my doors:
In honest plainness thou hast heard me say
My daughter is not for thee; and now, in madness,
Being full of supper and distempering draughts,
Upon malicious bravery, dost thou come
To start my quiet.

RODERIGO
Sir, sir, sir,--

BRABANTIO
But thou must needs be sure
My spirit and my place have in them power
To make this bitter to thee.

RODERIGO
Patience, good sir.

BRABANTIO
What tell'st thou me of robbing? this is Venice;
My house is not a grange.

RODERIGO
Most grave Brabantio,
In simple and pure soul I come to you.

IAGO
'Zounds, sir, you are one of those that will not
serve God, if the devil bid you. Because we come to
do you service and you think we are ruffians, you'll
have your daughter covered with a Barbary horse;
you'll have your nephews neigh to you; you'll have
coursers for cousins and gennets for germans.

BRABANTIO
What profane wretch art thou?

IAGO
I am one, sir, that comes to tell you your daughter
and the Moor are now making the beast with two backs.


William Shakespeare
Othello, circa 1604
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: azozeo on November 05, 2015, 10:56:21 AM
Size matters.  If ME men get the rep that they are packing serious sausage German white girls are gonna wanna have fun.  On the flip side Arab women can be beautiful under their veil but the threat of a serious beat-down from daddy will keep them home.  The ME men are definitely the winner in this situation.  But they need that rep first.

(http://x.imagefapusercontent.com/u/hotstuff5/5246835/1733106132/bo24.jpg)



http://www.youtube.com/v/-iz_mVgEzqg&fs=1
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Fenixor on November 05, 2015, 11:34:29 AM
The biggest reason was fear of inequality in the relationship and exposure to different ethnicities through friends and family

I can assure you that this is a big issue here as well. My very liberal female family members are not fans of Muslim culture at all, and it's because of the way they see the men treat the women. And they think the women who hide behind the hijab are weak-willed and/or lazy and juvenile in their thinking.

My point was not that this is true but how people perceive the issue. The more friends you have from different countries the more open you are to interracial marriage. So experience matters, people who live in small closed communities with little outside influence are also the people voting for xenophobic parties like the Sweden Democrats which are cultural racists i.e. makes arguments about "preserving a pure culture". Many comments have indeed been racist as they focus on religion or ethnicity as a main objective to immigration. The fear of "invasion of muslims" or "stealing our women" is a common rhetoric used by the xenophobic parties instead of talking about the capacity based on resources. A majority of people with this type of view in Sweden is white men frustrated over their own non-importance, unemployment or insecurity. One should not be so fast to generalise, we are all just humans, every individual is different just like snowflakes.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: K-Dog on November 05, 2015, 12:48:46 PM
I've had sisters tell me I make love like a brother.  More than one has told me this. They were smiling when they said it.  Big smiles. 

The bottom line is we are all individuals and to claim one ethnic group has superior qualities is a slap on the face to the gifted individuals of other groups.  A word for such blanket generalizations is 'racism'.  That is something Jimmy Kunstler is finding about this week.

The truth I've just told is from another universe.  Long ago and far away, but it still pisses Mrs. Dog off to no end.  She knows it to be true.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on November 05, 2015, 01:00:33 PM
The more friends you have from different countries the more open you are to interracial marriage. So experience matters, people who live in small closed communities with little outside influence are also the people voting for xenophobic parties like the Sweden Democrats which are cultural racists i.e. makes arguments about "preserving a pure culture".

Having friends from different countries isn't a strong predetermining factor for accepting interracial marriage, at least not here, in a racially divided country like the US. Not in my experience.

 I live in a cosmopolitan city where interracial marriage is not considered scandalous , but it still remains fairly uncommon, and those who choose partners across racial lines tend to be from the lower socio-economic groups and the military, rather than from highly educated individuals who might be considered more worldly.

I don't really give a rat's ass about preserving a pure culture, which is preposterous on the face of it. But I don't think the refugees you currently have entering your country are likely to become well assimilated into Swedish culture, which they are likely to consider rather hedonistic and godless. I think in five years time the sentiment is apt to be a good deal less benevolent towards anyone emigrating from MENA than it is now.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on November 05, 2015, 01:18:13 PM
I've had sisters tell me I make love like a brother.  More than one has told me this. They were smiling when they said it.  Big smiles. 

The bottom line is we are all individuals and to claim one ethnic group has superior qualities is a slap on the face to the gifted individuals of other groups.  A word for such blanket generalizations is 'racism'.  That is something Jimmy Kunstler is finding about this week.

The truth I've just told is from another universe.  Long ago and far away, but it still pisses Mrs. Dog off to no end.  She knows it to be true.

http://www.youtube.com/v/oAVkKNW9GD0&fs=1
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Fenixor on November 05, 2015, 01:30:19 PM
Having friends from different countries isn't a strong predetermining factor for accepting interracial marriage, at least not here, in a racially divided country like the US. Not in my experience.

 I live in a cosmopolitan city where interracial marriage is not considered scandalous , but it still remains fairly uncommon, and those who choose partners across racial lines tend to be from the lower socio-economic groups and the military, rather than from highly educated individuals who might be considered more worldly.

I don't really give a rat's ass about preserving a pure culture, which is preposterous on the face of it. But I don't think the refugees you currently have entering your country are likely to become well assimilated into Swedish culture, which they are likely to consider rather hedonistic and godless. I think in five years time the sentiment is apt to be a good deal less benevolent towards anyone emigrating from MENA than it is now.

Well, that's what the study found for the case of Sweden. Of course we don't know if people responded honestly but I'm assuming that. Of course it varies across countries.  Interracial marriage is not so strange or a phenomenon only occurring in a certain class over here, but then class differences are not that great as in the U.S. and so its harder to define.

Sorry there Eddie, I should have written "as for other comments" was not aimed at you and more of a observation of how it is over here than anything else. I agree, not everyone will be well assimilated and conflict will probably arise but still don't think race, religion or gender is a guiding principle for decision making. Sounds like dark ages to me. Perhaps that's the way we are going but I'm sure as hell not gonna promote it.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on November 05, 2015, 01:45:17 PM
Quote
It is not racist, imho, to talk about this, because it just happens to be true. Numbers don't lie.
http://www.pewforum.org/2011/01/27/the-future-of-the-global-muslim-population/ (http://www.pewforum.org/2011/01/27/the-future-of-the-global-muslim-population/)

Numbers, or more correctly statistics, CAN lie.

From the article: "The projections are based both on past demographic trends and on assumptions about how these trends will play out in future years. Making these projections inevitably entails a host of uncertainties, including political ones."

Population increase depends on differences in birth rate and death rate, yet this is not examined at all in the article.  Do you suppose those top 10 Muslim countries (Indonesia, Pakistan, India, etc) are going to make more progress on decreasing their death rate than US and Europe?  I think that that is what demographers would think (under BAU, obviously).  So if birth rates are not altered, then that factor alone will result in an increased population growth rate. 

If that is the political result you want to achieve, then as a demographer you will stop there and not explain the assumptions you have made at all.  And then Pew will publish that without scrutiny.  Then YOU will read it, and with your confirmation bias, will accept it unconditionally, and quote it at me, telling me "the numbers don't lie".  Well, I'm sorry but the numbers DO lie.

The US and Europe have had their Demographic Transition, where birth rates adapt to the death rate situation, but large parts of Asia, Africa and Middle East haven't yet. It's nothing to do with religion.

When I worked at the UK Census Office, my first task was to produce an analysis of the latest data on size of families where one or both parents were not born in the UK.  This data was used by the racist Enoch Powell MP in his infamous "rivers of blood" speech (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivers_of_Blood_speech), warning that the UK would be overwhelmed by immigrant population growth, and we would all be killed in our beds.  Naturally he ignored the fact that many "not born in UK" people were the children of the imperial masters in India, Pakistan, Nigeria etc who were returning to the Mother Country as the Empire expired.  Nor the fact that the age of immigrants puts them in the most reproductive age bracket.

It's all to do with sowing fear and distrust in the population for the people who are on the receiving end of US aggression.  Calling a whole population ragheads, smelly, over-fertile, culturally different and camping in my front garden is just racial stereotyping and wrong.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: g on November 05, 2015, 01:45:40 PM
I've had sisters tell me I make love like a brother.  More than one has told me this. They were smiling when they said it.  Big smiles. 

The bottom line is we are all individuals and to claim one ethnic group has superior qualities is a slap on the face to the gifted individuals of other groups.  A word for such blanket generalizations is 'racism'.  That is something Jimmy Kunstler is finding about this week.

The truth I've just told is from another universe.  Long ago and far away, but it still pisses Mrs. Dog off to no end.  She knows it to be true.

You talk quite a ball game Bull Dog.

The babes around here used to call me the crowbar. My old lady, Pussy got wind of it, and is still laughing her ass off.  :-[                                 


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51YML7Rav8L._SY445_.jpg) (http://m.c.lnkd.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/shrink_200_200/p/1/000/07c/3d0/31846ca.jpg)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on November 05, 2015, 01:49:39 PM
Sounds like dark ages to me. Perhaps that's the way we are going but I'm sure as hell not gonna promote it.

And you shouldn't. You should be young and idealistic for a while longer. For as long as you can, in fact. It isn't good for young people to be pessimistic.

But don't worship at the altar of political correctness. It's a false idol if there ever was one.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on November 05, 2015, 01:58:48 PM
Calling people you don't even know racist is wrong too, my friend.

We have a good many racist people running around in this country, and your decision to lump me into that group is something I find fairly offensive, because I've spent more than half a lifetime taking care of the healthcare needs of poor people of all colors and nationalities, many of whom I like a lot, even though we don't even share a language.

I consider myself apolitical, and a pragmatist. I just think the "refugee problem" is likely to rip apart the social fabric of Europe, based on what I see happening. That's my opinion. I don't see how it makes me a racist. And just because I am willing to say to hell with political correctness and say it's crazy to try to take on hundreds of thousands of displaced people, and that I predict that it will not end well..how that makes me a racist, I just don't get.

I have known some real racists. You don't know much about racism, in my view.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on November 05, 2015, 02:07:08 PM
There was an email being passed around in the healthcare system,  written by a german nurse describing a horror situation, I was skeptical it may be fake, but not sure now. The letter/email by the german nurse describes a hellish work environment,  that refugees have many communicable diseases and often throw urine or saliva at staff, that nurses go with security to attend to the north african men or get sexually assaulted and refers to them as animals. That they often threaten to dump babies or kids if they dont get their way or need to pay for prescriptions,  have brought infants in too late that died and the refugees then rioted.

The video posted earlier from ZH of Hungary border  shows 2 or 3 refugees putting their babies over the fence to the police until the police had to take them and the family were then first to follow through,  so some evidence of the practice there.

Its funny the feminists are silent now when women in europe are  being told not to go out in revealing clothing in case it offends refugees provoking attack,  when the same statements have caused huge blaming the victim storms with sackings, resignations  or forced retraction and apology before. (Crosses are being removed and christian saints days celebrations cancelled also, in fairness to offending being legitimate).

 There are police stationed outside a london embasdy 24/7/365 to extradite a whistleblower who is accused of sex by surprise (promising to use a condom but then not having one). At the same time, immigrants are not being charged,  or given light sentences such as community service for gangrape of 14 year old norwegian girls. Prosecutors making statements that they need to be understanding the offenders are traumatised or police telling girls they havent got enough evidence. As a result these highly feminist countries are going from the lowest reporting of rape to the highest. Clearly women as victim is trumped by refugee as victim in those places now.


No i do not approve of it, and no i dont think muslims are more inclined to rape, whats been going on in sudan and somalia is a weapon of war and those involved have brought it with them, going unchecked in case it stirs up anti immigrant sentiment as they openly admit. Its not happening among muslims here including  somali etc because they would be deported or go to jail. The same thing would happen if the dutch and danish natives were given carte blanche to get away with it at home instead of going to thailand or mexico for their perversions.


http://www.infowars.com/lesbian-swedish-bishop-wants-christian-crosses-removed-from-church-to-please-muslims/ (http://www.infowars.com/lesbian-swedish-bishop-wants-christian-crosses-removed-from-church-to-please-muslims/)


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/11902296/Second-German-woman-evicted-from-her-home-to-make-way-for-refugees.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/11902296/Second-German-woman-evicted-from-her-home-to-make-way-for-refugees.html)


http://www.infowars.com/german-schools-order-girls-not-to-wear-short-skirts-to-avoid-offending-muslim-migrants/ (http://www.infowars.com/german-schools-order-girls-not-to-wear-short-skirts-to-avoid-offending-muslim-migrants/)

(First few comments worth reading too)
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Palloy on November 05, 2015, 02:33:45 PM
Quote
Eddie: I live in a cosmopolitan city where interracial marriage is not considered scandalous , but it still remains fairly uncommon

And perhaps your idea of what constitutes a cosmopolitan city is biased by stereotypical Amerikan parochialism. In a truly cosmopolitan city, like London, Paris or Zurich you can't assume that the next person you pass in the street can speak English, or will share your views on the world.

Since your government has to first demonise the enemy to justify attacking it, and the US Empire having done more attacking than any country on Earth, with the possible exception of the British Empire, you will naturally have been exposed to more demonising propaganda than most people on Earth, and more patriotic propaganda too.  So it is going to be more acceptable to be a bigoted racist in Austin TX than it is in Zurich, and inter-racial marriages will be low.  "I wouldn't let my daughter marry an Afghan towelhead" might be an acceptable thing to say in Austin, or even on DD, but the rest of the cosmopolitan world shudders.

Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Fenixor on November 05, 2015, 02:39:22 PM
And you shouldn't. You should be young and idealistic for a while longer. For as long as you can, in fact. It isn't good for young people to be pessimistic.
But don't worship at the altar of political correctness. It's a false idol if there ever was one.

I try not to fall into that trap and as I stated in the vidcast with RE Swedes defending men who beat their wives or daughters based on ideas of respecting foreign cultures or religious beliefs is WRONG. I find both extremes, both left and right disgusting, and political correctness has done my country no good. It has only polarised people even more. And now we see a backlash with more far-right extremists instead.

I'm not sure if your second comment was aimed at me or Palloy but I didn't call you a racist so I'm guessing not.

Uncle Bob, sources like infowars is not very credible in my view. If such things actually have occurred than they should be convicted just like anyone else. RE asked me in the vidcast about this comment that women are told not to dress in certain way, that's really not true here and I'm suspecting it's not true in Germany either. Rape is a serious crime here (years in prison) and people get convicted no matter their nationality. Including Julian Assange. As for the details on his case I cannot say, they look murky to me. As for Denmark or Norway I cannot say. I don't think women as a victim is trumped by refugees as a victim, and the rape stories I know about including stats from over here indicate that it's most often relatives or friends that rape (so called domestic rape).
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on November 05, 2015, 02:41:48 PM
Calling people you don't even know racist is wrong too, my friend.

We have a good many racist people running around in this country, and your decision to lump me into that group is something I find fairly offensive, because I've spent more thanhalf a lifetime taking care of the healthcare needs of poor people of all colors and nationalities, many of whom I like a lot, even though we don't even share a language.

I consider myself apolitical, and a pragmatist. I just think the "refugee problem" is likely to rip apart the social fabric of Europe, based on what I see happening. That's my opinion. I don't see how it makes me a racist. And just because I am willing to say to hell with political correctness and say it's crazy to try to take on hundreds of thousands of displaced people, and that I predict that it will not end well..how that makes me a racist, I just don't get.

I have known some real racists. You don't know much about racism, in my view.

Thats shifting, u said u dont want muslims living next door.

Ill also point out to u that 1. AmerIcan attitude to inter racial marriage is not representing the rest of the western world, especially france and uk monsta a sudanese has said he has a euro gf,  my friend jihad has an english wife,  and all the muslims i know have one or two kids,  they havent outbred me and not you by a mile. But look at the foto palloy posted of tbe foto op where the minister is giving visas to a family. Thats nice,  and i dont mind them living near me. But what i do mind is the 5 bedroom house they get and 900$ or so a week for having 5 kids under ten yrs old already, making it not worth the father working. The more kids u have,  the more they can hand down clothes, and they can buy and cook in bulk,  they dont need to be paid more and more for having more and more kids. Meanwhile they have decided anyone born after about 1960 will not be eligible for age pension because it cant be afforded,  and unemployed must apply for 5 jobs a day and be willing to travel 90km (about 56miles) to work or lose their 250$ "dole". Can u imagine finding let alone tailoring an application adressing selection criteria for a professional position 5 times a day?  Impossible,  but this is what tony abbott did.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on November 05, 2015, 02:59:53 PM

According to a Swedish doctoral thesis "Love aint got no color?" it varies a lot but background is important to about half of all Swedes. Of these people more are open to relationships with people from Latin America (73%) than Asia (64%) or the Middle East (55%).

"Open to a relationship" is not getting married, having kids and converting to Islam.  How many native Swedish women do you see walking around Stockholm wearing a Burkha?

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: RE on November 05, 2015, 03:06:43 PM
I've had sisters tell me I make love like a brother.

Isn't that called incest?

RE
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on November 05, 2015, 03:30:57 PM

According to a Swedish doctoral thesis "Love aint got no color?" it varies a lot but background is important to about half of all Swedes. Of these people more are open to relationships with people from Latin America (73%) than Asia (64%) or the Middle East (55%).

"Open to a relationship" is not getting married, having kids and converting to Islam.  How many native Swedish women do you see walking around Stockholm wearing a Burkha?

RE

U wouldnt know who was under a burkha, the headscarf otoh u can see whos wearing it. But then again a lot of muslims are just not religious,  drink alcohol and probably wouldnt expect spouse to convert. this wouldnt apply to current new refugees though,  more like after they were settled for 20 years, or grow up in europe.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on November 05, 2015, 03:31:08 PM
I HAVE Muslims living next door. And Asians. And black people. Really, I do. They are professionals, and they are well assimilated into my neighborhood, and my culture. I have NO PROBLEM with that.

I SAID I don't want Syrians, Nigerians, or Eritreans camping out on my lawn. What I meant by that is that I don't want to have a situation here like the one currently going down in Sweden, Italy, Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, etc.

That isn't racist, in my view. It's just admitting that such a situation is not to be desired.

And anybody who thinks it is a good idea, is a fucking moron. In my opinion.

So quit taking what I said and trying to put some kind of twist on it. Go back and read for comprehension.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: azozeo on November 05, 2015, 03:40:20 PM
I HAVE Muslims living next door. And Asians. And black people. Really, I do. They are professionals, and they are well assimilated into my neighborhood, and my culture. I have NO PROBLEM with that.

I SAID I don't want Syrians, Nigerians, or Eritreans camping out on my lawn. What I meant by that is that I don't want to have a situation here like the one currently going down in Sweden, Italy, Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, etc.

That isn't racist, in my view. It's just admitting that such a situation is not to be desired.

And anybody who thinks it is a good idea, is a fucking moron. In my opinion.

So quit taking what I said and trying to put some kind of twist on it. Go back and read for comprehension.


My neighborhood is affluent as well. My little town has a mosque. There are folks here from
the middle east, I don't anyone hailing from Africa here. We all get along just fine. We all work
together just fine. Sensationalism sells copy. You're right Ed. Unfortunately Ed, these morons
(who shall remain anonymous) who are on this site are shit stirrers & drama queens don't have the
ability to live a quiet, peaceful  life. I'm with ya' brother.....
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Fenixor on November 05, 2015, 03:43:05 PM
"Open to a relationship" is not getting married, having kids and converting to Islam.  How many native Swedish women do you see walking around Stockholm wearing a Burkha?
RE

I have not claimed that people convert to Islam. Well badly formulated by me, positive to interracial marriage, also people don't get married as much here many stay "partners".

On another note here is a story that is true, that I just found, presented in DN newspaper that I have translated. And here I will share my non-PC opinion.

"Three boys are convicted to youth detention centre for gang rape of a 23 year old woman in Stockholm. The victim was raped six times. According to police the boys are living as street kids in the city and are around 18 and 15 years of age. The lowest punishment for gross rape is 4 years but due to their age the court ruled 6 months and 9 months in detention centre and SEK 165,000 in damage. The prosecutor did not pursue deportation because the their identity is not determined."

THIS IS DISGUSTING and I think this is wrong on so many levels. First, really weak punishment especially for the 18 year old, second they won't pay, third they should be deported.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: monsta666 on November 05, 2015, 03:53:40 PM
I HAVE Muslims living next door. And Asians. And black people. Really, I do. They are professionals, and they are well assimilated into my neighborhood, and my culture. I have NO PROBLEM with that.

I SAID I don't want Syrians, Nigerians, or Eritreans camping out on my lawn. What I meant by that is that I don't want to have a situation here like the one currently going down in Sweden, Italy, Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, etc.

That isn't racist, in my view. It's just admitting that such a situation is not to be desired.

And anybody who thinks it is a good idea, is a fucking moron. In my opinion.

So quit taking what I said and trying to put some kind of twist on it. Go back and read for comprehension.

So what you are saying is you don't mind having foreigners who have already established and integrated into the country but are less keen on foreigners that are fresh from the boat? I can see what you mean as even people from the same country of origin will behave quite differently if they have lived in a foreign country for awhile compared to new arrivals. The differences only grow larger if you are comparing second generation migrants to new arrivals. I do agree there is a big difference and it is not racist as really you are not discriminating under the grounds of race but rather the level of social integration a particular group of people has. Another important consideration is economics as quite often new migrants will place significant demand on public infrastructure such as housing, schools, hospitals and other services which can be a considerable burden if you have a sudden influx of people. Again these are problems that are a lot prominent with foreigners who have established roots in a country are more independent and therefore do not need as much social services (at least when compared to the native population). 

Saying that, and this is playing devil's advocate somewhat, I would not consider every person who believes admitting new people is a good idea as idiots. The major corporations will love an influx of workers as it can act as means of suppressing wage growth and lowering general job security. It is this reason why politicians have always taken a half assed approach to tackling immigration because large scale immigrations does yield benefits to a significant segment of the population... I suppose you could class politicians/corporates as morons but at the very least you can say they are people with agendas.
Title: Re: The Official Refugee Thread
Post by: Eddie on November 05, 2015, 03:57:24 PM
Quote
Eddie: I live in a cosmopolitan city where interracial marriage is not considered scandalous , but it still remains fairly uncommon

And perhaps your idea of what constitutes a cosmopolitan city is biased by stereotypical Amerikan parochialism. In a truly cosmopolitan city, like London, Paris or Zurich you can't assume that the next person you pass in the street can speak English, or will share your views on the world.

Since your government has to first demonise the enemy to justify attacking it, and the US Empire having done more attacking than any country on Earth, with the possible exception of the British Empire, you will naturally have been exposed to more demonising propaganda than most people on Earth, and more patriotic propaganda too.  So it is going to be more acceptable to be a bigoted racist in Austin TX than it is in Zurich, and inter-racial marriages will be low.  "I wouldn't let my daughter marry an Afghan towelhead" might be an acceptable thing to say in Austin, or even on DD, but the rest of the cosmopolitan world shudders.

You are so quick to put words in my mouth. You should examine your knee-jerk anger at regular Americans. I am not a part of the Imperial USMIC. Nor am I a racist. Nor am I a heartless bastard.

You know Palloy, there is a name for what you're doing here. It's known as transference. I suggest that there is some part of you that isn't in full congruence with your stated position of complete diversity and multiculturalism, and that you're angry at that, and I'm a convenient target. Who is the real person who makes you this angry? Your father?

Transference is a phenomenon characterized by unconscious redirection of feelings from one person to another. One definition of transference is "the inappropriate repetition in the present of a relationship that was important in a person's childhood".[1] Another definition is "the redirection of feelings and desires and especially of those unconsciously retained from childhood toward a new object".[2] Still another definition is "a reproduction of emotions relating to repressed experiences, especially of childhood, and the substitution of another person ... for the original object of the repressed impulses" --- Wiki

I've been to London, and Paris, and Iquitos, and Merida, and Tortola, and NYC, and San Francisco and New Orleans and Charlotte and Key West, and LA and Boston, and a few other melting pots. I'm not a totally ignorant man.

You've never heard me use the term raghead, and I don't tell my daughters who to date.

AZ is correct. You have a problem with taking other peoples inventories. You are being a real prick today. I like and admire you, actually, but don't expect me to let you shit on me with this trumped up bullshit.



Title: Re: The Official