Doomstead Diner Menu => Environment => Topic started by: azozeo on May 09, 2015, 02:24:26 PM

Title: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: azozeo on May 09, 2015, 02:24:26 PM
http://rt.com/news/256861-climate-change-un-hoax/ (http://rt.com/news/256861-climate-change-un-hoax/)

Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: Petty Tyrant on May 09, 2015, 10:41:10 PM
http://rt.com/news/256861-climate-change-un-hoax/ (http://rt.com/news/256861-climate-change-un-hoax/)

He is alzo trying to get all remai ing forest logged and today announced that he will be cutti g family payments fro m the the poor to reallocate the money to well off families for paid daycare and introduc8ng a nanny subsidy since we cant keep foreign slaves for 300 a week like they can in canada. Tony will pay half their wage so wives of fatcats can sit at sta4bucks without needing to stop to change a nappy  now and then.

He was thrown out of a catholic monastery before becoming a politician.
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: Snowleopard on May 10, 2015, 03:50:37 PM
http://rt.com/news/256861-climate-change-un-hoax/ (http://rt.com/news/256861-climate-change-un-hoax/)

He is alzo trying to get all remai ing forest logged and today announced that he will be cutti g family payments fro m the the poor to reallocate the money to well off families for paid daycare and introduc8ng a nanny subsidy since we cant keep foreign slaves for 300 a week like they can in canada. Tony will pay half their wage so wives of fatcats can sit at sta4bucks without needing to stop to change a nappy  now and then.

He was thrown out of a catholic monastery before becoming a politician.

Political power systems are a bit like septic tanks: The scum rises to the top. 

Suggesting a politician is scum is (likely deserved) ad hom, but does not defeat his argument.   It is a given that most of the political "leadership" is scum. 

My guess is that they Will Soon drop the global warming/climate change meme as a means to implement the control system.  Likely sustainability will be the new keyword to induce Ben Dover to accept the control agenda.

Title: Snowleopard, consistent climate denier for YEARS, is BACK!
Post by: agelbert on May 10, 2015, 05:04:12 PM
Snowleopard, consistent climate denier for YEARS, is BACK!  :P

Snowleopard (AS USUAL) says,
Quote
My guess is that they Will Soon drop the global warming/climate change meme as a means to implement the control system.  Likely sustainability will be the new keyword to induce Ben Dover to accept the control agenda.

For the last three years or so you have been pushing unscientific, pro-fossil fuel propaganda like "sunspots, not fossil fuel burning, causes global warming", "the alleged "pause" in global warming (That HAS been proven a hoax generated by pro-fossil fuel propaganda), the "new ice age" (see Snowleopard wanting to move "south" and making plans to "ice skate on the Potomac" LOL!), ETC. 

For those very same last three years, hard data and scientific evidence of the horror show in the biosphere thanks to your fossil fuel burning pals has been pouring in torrentially, YET you still remain consistent to your climate denier "tune".  :evil4:

But let us assume for the moment that your are right and there is no global warming. WHY DO YOU, who claim to be looking out for we-the-people, play blind, deaf and dumb at the rip offs we-the-people are CONSTANTLY being subjected to by your fossil fuel PALS if, indeed, they AREN'T your pals and you aren't a PRO-Fossil Fuel SHILL?  :icon_scratch:

FACTS about global warming don't bother you.

I guess FACTS like the following TAXPAYER THEFT FINANCED BY THE BANKS AND THE GOVERNMENT on behalf of fossil fuel bottom lines don't bother you either.  ;)

Quote
Tt costs $1.50 per acre a year for the first five years of a lease, and increases to $2 per acre for years 5-10 - the same as when Eisenhower was President.  (http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons/tuzki-bunnys/tuzki-bunny-emoticon-023.gif)

Royalties are 12.5% of the value of the extracted coal, oil and gas, but that ends up around 5% after loopholes, and is much lower than the 18.75% for offshore leases (and that's also undervalued).   

US taxpayers are losing about $1 billion a year in royalties
- $30 billion over the past 30 years, says The Mountain Pact.

Read our articles, Even At Bargain Basement Prices, No Coal Company Bids At Auction and US Continues To Lease Our Coal for $1 a Ton.

Banks Keep Coal On Life Support    (http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000370273/polls_Smiley_Angry_256x256_3451_356175_answer_4_xlarge.png)


Quote
For years, the world's largest banks have promised to stop financing coal, but in 2014 they still supported the industry with $144 billion - a billion less than the previous year. (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/swear1.gif)

 Financing for coal mining actually increased from $55 billion in 2013 to $70 billion in 2014, and financing for coal-fired power producers dropped to $75 billion from $90 billion in 2013.

 Some banks have stopped financing the worst kinds of coal mining, such as mountaintop removal in the US and the world's largest mine in Australia.

"It's outrageous for some banks to be hitching themselves to this year's UN climate negotiations in Paris as 'climate leaders' while they are not prepared to pull out of all coal sector financing, end of story,"   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183312.bmp) says Yann Louvel at BankTrack.

 Read our articles, World's Biggest Coal Miner Gets Help From Major Banks and JP Morgan, Bank America, Citi Still Top Coal Financiers.

Read, The End of Coal, the Coal Finance Report Card 2015, which ranks the banks:
 
Website: www.ran.org/coalreportcard (http://www.ran.org/coalreportcard)

http://www.sustainablebusiness.com/index.cfm/go/news.display/id/26288 (http://www.sustainablebusiness.com/index.cfm/go/news.display/id/26288)

(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-100515195005.jpeg)

Snowleopard, I am not buying the agnotology that you are selling.  ;)

 (http://socialmedianz.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/misleading-car-sale.jpg)

Agnotology: Part one of six parts  (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/who-can-you-trust/resisting-brainwashing-propaganda/msg2849/#msg2849)

Agnotology: Part two of six parts  (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/who-can-you-trust/resisting-brainwashing-propaganda/msg2853/#msg2853)

Agnotology: Part three of six parts  (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/who-can-you-trust/resisting-brainwashing-propaganda/msg2858/#msg2858)

Agnotology: Part four of six parts  (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/who-can-you-trust/resisting-brainwashing-propaganda/msg2867/#msg2867)

Agnotology: Part five of six parts  (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/who-can-you-trust/resisting-brainwashing-propaganda/msg2876/#msg2876)

Agnotology: Part six of six parts  (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/who-can-you-trust/resisting-brainwashing-propaganda/msg2891/#msg2891)


Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: Snowleopard on May 10, 2015, 08:26:29 PM
AG we might be able to agree on a few things here.

TPTB own the major banks.

The banks own or control:

The politicians (all significant western political parties)
All major media.  (Fox, CNN, BBC, NPR, Al Jezeera, WSJ, WP NYT etc) 
The major oil companies, (BP, Chevron, Exxon, Shell)
Hundreds of major corporations, ie. most of the Fortune 500

They also control through their politicians, foundations and funds most scientific research,  most significant NGOs and activist groups.  If a significant social issue is in play that they have an interest in, they are almost certainly controlling both sides of the debate.

If we can agree here it might be possible to hold a discussion.

We do agree that the banksters and their corps are stealing like there is no tomorrow.  I'm not sure you agree that governments are basically their agents in a large part of this theft.  Our major disagreement seems to be that you cannot believe that AGW is just another of their psyops, and I am certain that it is.  That might be tedious to prove but the money trail is there.  It was Peter that first clued me to this.

Likely part of the plan was to structure carbon sequestration and/or taxation in such a way that small and mid cap oils would lose money and be vulnerable to takeover by the large cap oils.  I think they have given up on this.  I could be wrong.

Part of the agenda seems to just be anti US/EU survival.  What is the point of closing a few coal fired plants in US/UK if Chindia is building more than one a week?  And they are very quiet about the Chinese CTL plants.

Yes, FWIW, the Potomac did freeze this year, to within sight of the Capitol. I didn't notice anyone skating yet though, give them a few years to get used to it.

You can pretend it is getting hotter but (for one example of many) as of today my red maples and yellow birches still haven't leafed out! 

As for moving south, we did look into it some,  but my partner wishes to remain employed, and there are no career opportunities for her in southern Appalachia or eastern Texas.  Unsurprisingly, Atlanta, Raleigh, Houston and Dallas (where career opportunities do exist) just do not attract.
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: g on May 11, 2015, 03:40:38 AM
Great to see you back Snowleopard.  What a winter that was, am I glad it's over.  ::) ;D
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: Petty Tyrant on May 11, 2015, 04:52:43 AM
http://rt.com/news/256861-climate-change-un-hoax/ (http://rt.com/news/256861-climate-change-un-hoax/)

He is alzo trying to get all remai ing forest logged and today announced that he will be cutti g family payments fro m the the poor to reallocate the money to well off families for paid daycare and introduc8ng a nanny subsidy since we cant keep foreign slaves for 300 a week like they can in canada. Tony will pay half their wage so wives of fatcats can sit at sta4bucks without needing to stop to change a nappy  now and then.

He was thrown out of a catholic monastery before becoming a politician.

Political power systems are a bit like septic tanks: The scum rises to the top. 

Suggesting a politician is scum is (likely deserved) ad hom, but does not defeat his argument.   It is a given that most of the political "leadership" is scum. 

My guess is that they Will Soon drop the global warming/climate change meme as a means to implement the control system.  Likely sustainability will be the new keyword to induce Ben Dover to accept the control agenda.

WHat argument?  Did u not read that he provided no evidence.. ?  No evidence or logic provided to show that temp is in stasis for 20 years. no evidence or argument to explain how it has anything to do with repealing democracy. The only thing he has said definitively is they do not want to take action to cut emission because it would cost money.

 so the only conspiracy theory and control agenda here is the guy repeating your claims that climate scientists are all lying and we havent had close to 50c summers. No drought and desertification.  No tropical fish  swimming past new zealand. All a hoax. And the footdragging by govts reluctant to meet any targets of too little too late all an act. Wandering jetstream doesnt cause polar vortex its really an ice age right. Big business including fossil fuel industries having close contact and contribution to the liberal party and that being the climate sceptic party  is no conspiracy though. They wanted to meet renewable energy target of just 15% by 2025 by scrapping wind and solar and instead burning woodchips from logging the protected native forests.

Theres a thin layer of air around the earth. underneath that is a layer of coal. , gas,  and oil that took millions of years to deposit. When you take that heavy layer from under to the surface and burn it all in the light layer of air, that air and water on the surface heats up.
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: Snowleopard on May 11, 2015, 08:19:51 AM
Great to see you back Snowleopard.  What a winter that was, am I glad it's over.  ::) ;D

Thanks GO



Winter seems to be done here too, with any luck.   Six months of winter is a little much!

Temps switched from mostly below "normal" to mostly above.  Most of the trees (except yellow birches and some red maples that are usually early) are leafing out and my plums are blooming.

The last of my snowpiles melted away last week.  I'll wait until next week to swap off  the winter tires though.



Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: Snowleopard on May 11, 2015, 10:02:34 AM
http://rt.com/news/256861-climate-change-un-hoax/ (http://rt.com/news/256861-climate-change-un-hoax/)

He is alzo trying to get all remai ing forest logged and today announced that he will be cutti g family payments fro m the the poor to reallocate the money to well off families for paid daycare and introduc8ng a nanny subsidy since we cant keep foreign slaves for 300 a week like they can in canada. Tony will pay half their wage so wives of fatcats can sit at sta4bucks without needing to stop to change a nappy  now and then.

He was thrown out of a catholic monastery before becoming a politician.

Political power systems are a bit like septic tanks: The scum rises to the top. 

Suggesting a politician is scum is (likely deserved) ad hom, but does not defeat his argument.   It is a given that most of the political "leadership" is scum. 

My guess is that they Will Soon drop the global warming/climate change meme as a means to implement the control system.  Likely sustainability will be the new keyword to induce Ben Dover to accept the control agenda.

WHat argument?  Did u not read that he provided no evidence.. ?  No evidence or logic provided to show that temp is in stasis for 20 years. no evidence or argument to explain how it has anything to do with repealing democracy. The only thing he has said definitively is they do not want to take action to cut emission because it would cost money.

 so the only conspiracy theory and control agenda here is the guy repeating your claims that climate scientists are all lying and we havent had close to 50c summers. No drought and desertification.  No tropical fish  swimming past new zealand. All a hoax. And the footdragging by govts reluctant to meet any targets of too little too late all an act. Wandering jetstream doesnt cause polar vortex its really an ice age right. Big business including fossil fuel industries having close contact and contribution to the liberal party and that being the climate sceptic party  is no conspiracy though. They wanted to meet renewable energy target of just 15% by 2025 by scrapping wind and solar and instead burning woodchips from logging the protected native forests.

Theres a thin layer of air around the earth. underneath that is a layer of coal. , gas,  and oil that took millions of years to deposit. When you take that heavy layer from under to the surface and burn it all in the light layer of air, that air and water on the surface heats up.


The FACT that "world temperature" has been flat for many years is hardly worth debating any more.  The evidence is linked to from most denier, skeptic and lukewarmer sites.

(https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/clip_image0023.png)

 Many of those who lead the "warmist" movement have reluctantly conceded this, though you won't find many MSM stories quoting them doing so.  I'd disagree with 20 years though and put it somewhere between 12-18 years depending on the measurement system used.

This part is not conspiracy theory stuff and I'm not in the mood to argue it or do homework, but if you truly have interest you might try tracking down the origin of this study:

Quote
Of the 100 papers we identified, 65 didn’t have anything to do with recent global temperature trends (these typified papers published prior to about 2010). Of the remaining 35 papers, every single one of them acknowledged in some way that a hiatus, pause, or slowdown in global warming was occurring.

In other words, we didn’t find a single paper on the topic that argued the rate of global warming has not slowed (or even stopped) in recent years. This is in direct opposition to the IPCC’s contention that global warming is accelerating, and supports arguments that the amount of warming that will occur over the remainder of the 21st century as a result of human fossil fuel usage will be at the low end of the IPCC projections, or even lower. Low-end warming yields low-end impacts.

We surely may have missed a few papers that were not cataloged in the database we used, or that weren’t captured by our search terms, but the evidence is overwhelming—virtually all (if not actually all) scientific papers that mention a hiatus or pause agree that it exists.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/11/18/if-97-of-scientists-say-global-warming-is-real-100-say-it-has-nearly-stopped/ (http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/11/18/if-97-of-scientists-say-global-warming-is-real-100-say-it-has-nearly-stopped/)

If you prefer argument, you can find a long list of essays arguing this topic at the same (polite denier) site:

http://wattsupwiththat.com/category/hiatus-in-global-warming/ (http://wattsupwiththat.com/category/hiatus-in-global-warming/)

Quote
Wandering jetstream doesnt cause polar vortex its really an ice age right.

First off, we ARE in an ice age.  In geologic time the earth has been cooling overall for 50Myrs.


(https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/tempvsco267m.gif)

 Earth cooled enough to enter an ice age 3-5Mys ago. 

(http://www.oocities.org/marie.mitchell@rogers.com/climate_files/Five_Myr_Climate_Change.png)


Our current interglacial was much warmer when it began and has been cooling overall for at least 3kyrs. 

(https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/easterbrook_fig5.jpg)

The above graph shows Greenland temp, not world temp and the time goes to 1950, not 2000 like it says, but it does illustrate the trend well.

It is not at all controversial geologically that we are headed into full glaciation.  The cycle will continue, the question is when we get there. 

What you call wandering jetstream might be better characterized as a switch from latitudinal winds to meridional winds which is common as the Earth enters cooling periods.  In warm periods they are mostly latitudinal, currently they are switching back and forth, in full glaciation they tend to be mostly meridional.



Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: Eddie on May 11, 2015, 10:35:13 AM
It is not at all controversial geologically that we are headed into full glaciation.  The cycle will continue, the question is when we get there. 

I guess that's why you can sail through the Northwest Passage now, for the first time in recorded history?

http://www.livescience.com/48105-cargo-ship-solos-northwest-passage.html (http://www.livescience.com/48105-cargo-ship-solos-northwest-passage.html)

Guess that's why the ice sheets in Greenland and the Antarctic are melting?

https://nsidc.org/cryosphere/quickfacts/icesheets.html (https://nsidc.org/cryosphere/quickfacts/icesheets.html)

http://www.antarcticglaciers.org/glaciers-and-climate/shrinking-ice-shelves/ice-shelves/ (http://www.antarcticglaciers.org/glaciers-and-climate/shrinking-ice-shelves/ice-shelves/)

Send us a little ice age glaciation down our way, we could use the water.

Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: Snowleopard on May 11, 2015, 02:24:34 PM
It is not at all controversial geologically that we are headed into full glaciation.  The cycle will continue, the question is when we get there. 

I guess that's why you can sail through the Northwest Passage now, for the first time in recorded history?

http://www.livescience.com/48105-cargo-ship-solos-northwest-passage.html (http://www.livescience.com/48105-cargo-ship-solos-northwest-passage.html)

 So this captain got lucky.  One can Google up multiple accounts of ships attempting the passage that needed rescue. 

Arctic ocean ice thickness and coverage is mostly controlled by wind velocity and direction, then by ocean currents and lastly by temperature.  Most of Alaska was not glaciated at the Last Glacial Maximum and the Arctic ocean was open several times during that glaciation.  .




Guess that's why the ice sheets in Greenland and the Antarctic are melting?

https://nsidc.org/cryosphere/quickfacts/icesheets.html (https://nsidc.org/cryosphere/quickfacts/icesheets.html)

http://www.antarcticglaciers.org/glaciers-and-climate/shrinking-ice-shelves/ice-shelves/ (http://www.antarcticglaciers.org/glaciers-and-climate/shrinking-ice-shelves/ice-shelves/)

Currently the average annual ice accumulation on Greenland runs about 400 GigaTons.  This year is slightly above the average.

http://beta.dmi.dk/en/groenland/maalinger/greenland-ice-sheet-surface-mass-budget/ (http://beta.dmi.dk/en/groenland/maalinger/greenland-ice-sheet-surface-mass-budget/)

Antarctic sea ice is currently running 2-3 standard deviations above normal and has broken many all time extent records this year:

https://sunshinehours.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/antarctic_sea_ice_extent_zoomed_2015_day_128_1981-2010.png (https://sunshinehours.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/antarctic_sea_ice_extent_zoomed_2015_day_128_1981-2010.png)


There is also the interesting story of the "climate scientists"  in the 2013 Antarctic summer who tried to duplicate the 1913 Mawson expedition with a modern ice strengthened vessel, got stuck in the ice and had to be rescued.  The much less capable vessel of 1913 had no serious trouble.  They were trying to show how much the ice had melted!

http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/environment/item/17277-global-warming-alarmists-stuck-in-antarctic-sea-ice (http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/environment/item/17277-global-warming-alarmists-stuck-in-antarctic-sea-ice)



Send us a little ice age glaciation down our way, we could use the water.

If only I had that power, I'd be happy to oblige!  ::)

Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: agelbert on May 11, 2015, 06:13:27 PM
(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-090315203150.png)

Snowleapard,
With your 24/7 evidence free Propaganda laced with "scientific" remarks like "The captain got lucky", you have earned a permanent sign (mendacity expert) painted on your back by Eddie, UB and myself.

As to you "agreeing" with me on corruption in government, the point of my post is that  ANYTHING that rankles the feathers of the fossil fuel industry is something YOU refuse to bring up. Spare me the "China is doing this and Russia is doing that" PROPAGANDA pro-war hysteria while you "tactfully" ignore the destruction of our finances for the benefit of the fossil fuel industry.

Your SILENCE is the issue, pal! And that stack of agonotology based graphs you just presented are a perfect example of your disingenuous double talk.

GO, when your are ROASTING in Boston this summer and your power bill GOES THROUGH THE ROOF TO PROVE IT, try to remember last winter and everything I have posted here calmly explaining why the more extreme winter is an EFFECT of global Warming. The hotter than blazes summer will be something ALSO expected but, OF COURSE, something Snowleopard will "tactfully" ignore while he (pretends to) order another pair of ice skates.  :evil4:

Go ahead, GO, play kissy face with Snowleopard. And be sure and IGNORE what the scientists at the following web site, staffed EXCLUSIVELY BY CLIMATE SCIENTISTS, say. No need to strain yourself, after all.

But if you REALLY want to know how Snowleopard TICKS, this article points to an online brief course on the Climate Denial MO.  (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/reading.gif)

An Online University Course on the Science of Climate Science Denial Filed under: Climate Science — mike @ 22 April 2015

Guest post from John Cook, University of Queensland

For many years, RealClimate has been educating the public about climate science. The value of climate scientists patiently explaining the science and rebutting misinformation directly with the public cannot be overestimated. When I began investigating this issue, my initial searches led me here, which was invaluable in increasing my understanding of our climate and making sense of misinformation. RealClimate has inspired and empowered a host of climate communicators such as myself to step forward and help make climate science more accessible to the general public.

To further the work of educating the public, and empowering people to communicate the realities of climate change, the Skeptical Science team has collaborated with The University of Queensland to develop a MOOC, Making Sense of Climate Science Denial. MOOC stands for Massive (we’ve already had thousands of students sign up from over 130 countries) Open (available for free to everyone) Online (web-based, no software required) Course.


The course examines the science of climate science denial. Why do a small but vocal minority reject the scientific evidence for climate change? What techniques do they use to cast doubt on the science?

And we examine the all-important questionbased on scientific research, how should we respond to science denial?
http://www.youtube.com/v/RedrutZ_G3Q#&fs=1

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2015/04/an-online-university-course-on-the-science-of-climate-science-denial/ (http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2015/04/an-online-university-course-on-the-science-of-climate-science-denial/)

Agelbert NOTE: One of the techniques, used BOTH by Snowleopard and Mking, is the resolution reduction trick used in graphing in order to give the appearance of a gradient in the direction of COOLING   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-051113192052.png). What they do is bring in several million years, something that is irrelevant to what has happened in the last 200 years, but it looks good on paper.  :evil4: 

They also go in the opposite direction to narrowly focus on a temperature record at exactly the spot following a temperature spike. WHY? Because, after the spike is chopped off the graph  :evil4:, the slight reversion to mean, regardless of the FACT that the mean rate IS climbing, gives the FALSE and MISLEADING appearance of a pause. This is pure and unadulterated malice and aforethought (mens rea) disinformation in the servie of the fossil fuel industry. People like this should be imprisoned for life as enemies of humanity and the biosphere. Have a nice day.
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: agelbert on May 11, 2015, 06:44:02 PM
(http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs_v3/Fig.A2.gif)
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs_v3/ (http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs_v3/)

Brave Climate Deniers everywhere, please ignore the above silly graph by NASA.  (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/fly.gif)

Within a thousand years or so we are going to get cooler with lots of BRRRR glaciation! (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-scared002.gif) Hurry, buy a big oil fired furnace now! Snowleopard, Mking and your great-great-great-great (you get the idea  ;)) grandchildren will thank you. :evil4:

Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: Petty Tyrant on May 11, 2015, 06:56:29 PM
So again u ignore ocean temp talk about temp instead of climate. And tell us that the 50 million year trend is dOwn. But u got to leave out that 50 million d ownward turning sharply up since we started burning fossil fuels. So sl wtf is the skijump shape of the trend?  Why in the last 1oo yrs the trend ends. Why do u  have to present false graph claiming it goes to yr 2ooo when its only to 1950. Because  the steep climb upwards in the last 65 yrs would put the lie to it. As for your alternative explanation for wandering jetstream it ignores alaska and siberia shorts and t shirt winter weather.
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: Petty Tyrant on May 11, 2015, 07:01:50 PM
What a joke to present a graph of the last 18 years to say no warming in that period debunks global warming when those same years contai n all the hottest in history. Since 96. Now go ahead and expand those last 18 years back  the 50 million u say are relevant to show the real picture. And while u r at it lets see the ocean temps in the same period since 96 . Then tell the truth about who has conceded anything.
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: agelbert on May 11, 2015, 09:20:03 PM
UB debunks Snowleopard (sl)! (http://www.websmileys.com/sm/violent/sterb029.gif)

What a joke to present a graph of the last 18 years to say no warming in that period debunks global warming when those same years contai n all the hottest in history. Since 96. Now go ahead and expand those last 18 years back  the 50 million u say are relevant to show the real picture. And while u r at it lets see the ocean temps in the same period since 96 . Then tell the truth about who has conceded anything.
:emthup:  :icon_mrgreen:

So again u ignore ocean temp talk about temp instead of climate. And tell us that the 50 million year trend is dOwn. But u got to leave out that 50 million downward turning sharply up since we started burning fossil fuels. So sl wtf is the skijump shape of the trend?  Why in the last 1oo yrs the trend ends. Why do u  have to present false graph claiming it goes to yr 2ooo when its only to 1950. Because  the steep climb upwards in the last 65 yrs would put the lie to it. As for your alternative explanation for wandering jetstream it ignores alaska and siberia shorts and t shirt winter weather.
:emthup:  :icon_sunny:
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: Snowleopard on May 13, 2015, 11:53:15 AM
So again u ignore ocean temp talk about temp instead of climate. And tell us that the 50 million year trend is dOwn. But u got to leave out that 50 million d ownward turning sharply up since we started burning fossil fuels. So sl wtf is the skijump shape of the trend?  Why in the last 1oo yrs the trend ends. Why do u  have to present false graph claiming it goes to yr 2ooo when its only to 1950. Because  the steep climb upwards in the last 65 yrs would put the lie to it. As for your alternative explanation for wandering jetstream it ignores alaska and siberia shorts and t shirt winter weather.

If you look at the periodicy it is obvious we were due for a temp uptick with or without fossil fuels.  We have still not exceeded the natural variability shown in the long term charts.

When I find a better graph I'll start using it. 

Obviously if deception was my intent, I could have neglected to disclose I was aware of the problem and pleaded ignorance if caught. That's not my style. 

The purpose of the chart is to show the millennial trend of decreasing peaks in warm periods and increasing lengths in cold periods.  Yes, if that graph is extended to present time it will show current warming (at Greenland) which will still be well short of the Medieval Warm Period's temps, and much less than earlier warm periods.

For some reason,  scientific dating convention YBP (Years Before Present) defines present currently at 2000, and formerly it was 1950.  Many older scientists did not change and are still using 1950.  This has caused many scientific documents to be published with those dates swapped due to editorial confusion (the editors being younger).  The error in the chart is of that character.  There is no attempt to deceive by me or the scientist.


Meridional winds obviously go both ways, and in the NH at the North end of a wind blowing from the South it will be warmer.  This will tend to heat the Arctic and taiga in spots, but overall the NH cools.  If my prognosis is correct, this process will accelerate over the next quarter century and NH temps two decades from now will approach 19th century values. (or colder if major volcanic eruptions occur.
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: Snowleopard on May 13, 2015, 12:11:48 PM
UB debunks Snowleopard (sl)! (http://www.websmileys.com/sm/violent/sterb029.gif)

What a joke to present a graph of the last 18 years to say no warming in that period debunks global warming when those same years contai n all the hottest in history. Since 96. Now go ahead and expand those last 18 years back  the 50 million u say are relevant to show the real picture. And while u r at it lets see the ocean temps in the same period since 96 . Then tell the truth about who has conceded anything.
:emthup:  :icon_mrgreen:


No. Obviously it has warmed since the Little Ice Age.  As I've said before that warming is "undeniable". 

The 18 year graph was in response to those who DENY "The Pause" or "Hiatus" depending what "side" they might be on.  The 18 years without warming does not say it didn't warm to that point, but obviously shows that warming has stopped.  Since CO2 is still increasing at about the rate it was increasing before the warming stopped, this further suggests CO2 did not cause that warming.
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: Petty Tyrant on May 13, 2015, 12:35:17 PM
UB debunks Snowleopard (sl)! (http://www.websmileys.com/sm/violent/sterb029.gif)

What a joke to present a graph of the last 18 years to say no warming in that period debunks global warming when those same years contai n all the hottest in history. Since 96. Now go ahead and expand those last 18 years back  the 50 million u say are relevant to show the real picture. And while u r at it lets see the ocean temps in the same period since 96 . Then tell the truth about who has conceded anything.
:emthup:  :icon_mrgreen:


No. Obviously it has warmed since the Little Ice Age.  As I've said before that warming is "undeniable". 

The 18 year graph was in response to those who DENY "The Pause" or "Hiatus" depending what "side" they might be on.  The 18 years without warming does not say it didn't warm to that point, but obviously shows that warming has stopped.  Since CO2 is still increasing at about the rate it was increasing before the warming stopped, this further suggests CO2 did not cause that warming.

The african savannahs flora and fauna are in very poor shape now compared to 18 years ago. 18 years ago we did not have 45c heatwaves we break records on this every summer. The graph was not in response to anyone it was a standalone statement and purported to speaj for others while leaving out the consensus response of explanation which you still also fail to adress. Ocean heatsink and rising temp Therein.
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: Snowleopard on May 18, 2015, 08:04:30 PM
UB debunks Snowleopard (sl)! (http://www.websmileys.com/sm/violent/sterb029.gif)

What a joke to present a graph of the last 18 years to say no warming in that period debunks global warming when those same years contai n all the hottest in history. Since 96. Now go ahead and expand those last 18 years back  the 50 million u say are relevant to show the real picture. And while u r at it lets see the ocean temps in the same period since 96 . Then tell the truth about who has conceded anything.
:emthup:  :icon_mrgreen:


No. Obviously it has warmed since the Little Ice Age.  As I've said before that warming is "undeniable". 

The 18 year graph was in response to those who DENY "The Pause" or "Hiatus" depending what "side" they might be on.  The 18 years without warming does not say it didn't warm to that point, but obviously shows that warming has stopped.  Since CO2 is still increasing at about the rate it was increasing before the warming stopped, this further suggests CO2 did not cause that warming.

The african savannahs flora and fauna are in very poor shape now compared to 18 years ago. 18 years ago we did not have 45c heatwaves we break records on this every summer. The graph was not in response to anyone it was a standalone statement and purported to speaj for others while leaving out the consensus response of explanation which you still also fail to adress. Ocean heatsink and rising temp Therein.

I'm thinking this horse is about beaten to death, but I'll give it one more shot of adrenaline.

I am interested in the truth, not in what a bunch of government paid  liars want me to believe. 

These government lies, at the behest of the international bankers, as an excuse to implement their global governance schemes, by pretending CO2 (a trace gas essential to all life on Earth) is a dangerous pollutant.  We are in fact carbon based life forms and both our blood and breath would be dangerous pollutants if you believe the so called government consensus bull.

Quote
The graph was not in response to anyone it was a standalone statement

See Reply #3 by AG:

Quote
For the last three years or so you have been pushing unscientific, pro-fossil fuel propaganda like "sunspots, not fossil fuel burning, causes global warming", "the alleged "pause" in global warming (That HAS been proven a hoax generated by pro-fossil fuel propaganda), the "new ice age" (see Snowleopard wanting to move "south" and making plans to "ice skate on the Potomac" LOL!), ETC. 

BTW The IPCC, NASA, NOAA, UK MET Office, Jim Hansen and many other prominent warmists have all conceded "The Pause" is real.  Those avoiding this reality are either in denial or it interferes with their agenda (like O'Bomber)


Quote
The african savannahs flora and fauna are in very poor shape now compared to 18 years ago

Probably true.    Savannahs are a balancing act between grassland and forest, when that balance tips one way or another those fauna and flora specifically adapted to the savannah will suffer.

The real questions are which way and why?

Which way is not in much doubt:

http://e360.yale.edu/feature/the_surprising_role_of_co2_in_changes_on_the_african_savanna/2663/ (http://e360.yale.edu/feature/the_surprising_role_of_co2_in_changes_on_the_african_savanna/2663/)

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/07/02/co2-is-greening-the-planet-african-savannahs-getting-a-makeover-to-forests/ (http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/07/02/co2-is-greening-the-planet-african-savannahs-getting-a-makeover-to-forests/)

If one looks at the Sahel:

http://thegwpf.org/images/stories/gwpf-reports/mueller-sahel.pdf (http://thegwpf.org/images/stories/gwpf-reports/mueller-sahel.pdf)

A bigger picture (the why) emerges of CO2 as plant food.

Desert is turning into grassland.  Grassland is turning into savannah, and savannah is transitioning to forest.

There are ways these changes are bad, and there are ways these changes are good, some will suffer in all change;  but overall less desert means more living area.
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: g on May 18, 2015, 08:14:58 PM
Hi Snowleopard, Just wanted you to know that your efforts in trying to have a friendly logical debate on this topic, and keeping your cool under some virulent attacks is most appreciated.

The points you bring up show a person that has obviously spent a great deal of time studying this situation, and are most interesting observations of much merit in my opinion. It's wonderful to have you back posting again.
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: Snowleopard on May 18, 2015, 10:03:51 PM
(http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs_v3/Fig.A2.gif)
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs_v3/ (http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs_v3/)

Brave Climate Deniers everywhere, please ignore the above silly graph by NASA.  (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/fly.gif)

Within a thousand years or so we are going to get cooler with lots of BRRRR glaciation! (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-scared002.gif) Hurry, buy a big oil fired furnace now! Snowleopard, Mking and your great-great-great-great (you get the idea  ;)) grandchildren will thank you. :evil4:


First off that graph is just government propaganda.

If you can stand to look at a denier website there is a view at where the same graph was in 2002.  Nice  "adjustments"!

https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2015/05/16/the-nasa-temperature-record-is-a-farce/ (https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2015/05/16/the-nasa-temperature-record-is-a-farce/)

NO.  For most people it's probably not a good idea to buy a large oil furnace. 

If/when you need/want to add heating capacity, I'd not suggest oil unless you live near the oil patches.  Even then keeping what you have and adding a backup system that can run with your primary if necessary.  It might be more expensive but gives resilience.   Even better if the fuel for that backup system doesn't have a distant origin.

Full disclosure: I use wood cut on my property as primary and propane for backup. (Propane does not decay, so if I don't use it this year it will be good next year etc.)

Yes AG it will probably take 1000 years or a bit longer for significant glaciation to develop.  But the grain belts will move south, shrink and could be out of production due to cold within three decades.  People will be fighting for food (and to stay warm) long before they see new  glaciers.
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: Petty Tyrant on May 18, 2015, 10:39:12 PM
dismissing selectively anything  u dont like as govt propaganda. All supposedly for the sake of taking 30 Years to introduce a new tax they just pretend they do not want All this time because it would cost money to cut pollution. can u tell me why they dont take that long or need such an elaborate ruse to pinch pensions or introduce bailins or rause any other tax to the max?  Why do u consistently ignore the warming in the ocean?

As i said especially  if u dont believe sources u havent seen go to africa. And see the savannah turning back to forest. Scrawny animals and dead trees all over. 15 yrs ago the trees were alive and the animals sleek. Please tell me with this pause when the 3 hottest years on record since records began in 1880 were? Not the last 3 years by any chance.
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: Snowleopard on May 20, 2015, 10:30:57 AM

As i said especially  if u dont believe sources u havent seen go to africa. And see the savannah turning back to forest. Scrawny animals and dead trees all over. 15 yrs ago the trees were alive and the animals sleek. Please tell me with this pause when the 3 hottest years on record since records began in 1880 were? Not the last 3 years by any chance.

Yes, it would be wonderful to have the resources needed hire a caretaker for this place and tour Africa to assess these changes first hand. I'm not in that position.

Since the CO2 "alarmists",  the "deniers", and many with no dog in that fight agree that the savannahs are transitioning into forest, and I've read reports from writers in all three categories, I'm willing to accept this change is happening.    Many think increasing CO2 is the driver here.  Others think changes in wind pattern, temps and moisture are at least as important.  Surely those wishing to promote alarm will select the worst views of these changes to promote their agenda, highlighting local drought conditions.  Did you read my link assessing the changes in the Sahel?  Like I said, it seems more like an overall change of climate zones moving north and reducing desert.

dismissing selectively anything  u dont like as govt propaganda. All supposedly for the sake of taking 30 Years to introduce a new tax they just pretend they do not want All this time because it would cost money to cut pollution. can u tell me why they dont take that long or need such an elaborate ruse to pinch pensions or introduce bailins or rause any other tax to the max?  Why do u consistently ignore the warming in the ocean?


I also routinely run into dismissal of facts I point out as "big oil" propaganda.  I used to accept most government scientific data without question.  I've seen too many "adjustments" (all of which reinforce the warmist case) to that data in the last few years to do that any longer.   Nevertheless I did not just dismiss the NASA chart but provided a link that shows its corruption.

It is obvious that global warming/climate change is a TPTB plan based on its origins, support and funding, the details of which would fill a large book.   Like most schemes of TPTB it is intended to work on many levels at once and is only a piece of a larger plan.  The plans that are successful fund those that need help, with the victims (us) being the ultimate payers. 

They do not think in terms of a human lifetime.  The plan for every nation to be subject to a central bank controlled by them began before Napoleon and continues today.

Very briefly the TPTB used their banks to indebt governments by fomenting wars which increased government debt and enriched their war supply corps.  They could arrange the probable "winner" in these wars by controlling the amount of funds available to the loser. This continued while they moved to control the financial sector by establishing central banks.  If one of the parties to an arranged conflict did not have a central bank, it would be easier to install one after it "lost" and needed funds to rebuild. 

 Once they could "print" unlimited  money through central banks they used this to acquire control of the major corporations with focus on insurance, trading, media, energy and "defense".    In parallel they moved to control education and science, for many reasons, but primarily to control "disruptive" innovations that could threaten their dominance.   This results in a propaganda education where a person is taught what to believe instead of critical thinking skills.  In fields where critical thinking is absolutely necessary, students are taught to confine that activity to their specialty.

The global warming/climate change meme plays into two of their ongoing central plans:   Consolidating control of the worldwide energy sector from production through end use, and consolidating government/NWO.  Carbon tax revenues, carbon trading schemes and increased control of individual choices are (desired) gravy.

Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: Karpatok on May 20, 2015, 10:42:03 AM
  Bingo. Brilliant analysis. Thank you, Snowleopard. You must do this more often and in even greater detail.  Wow.                                                                  Karpatok
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: Snowleopard on May 20, 2015, 11:13:31 AM
Hi Snowleopard, Just wanted you to know that your efforts in trying to have a friendly logical debate on this topic, and keeping your cool under some virulent attacks is most appreciated.

The points you bring up show a person that has obviously spent a great deal of time studying this situation, and are most interesting observations of much merit in my opinion. It's wonderful to have you back posting again.

Hi Golden Oxen,  Thanks for the kind words.

Insult throwing contests were popular in my grade school, but I like to think I've outgrown them, even if I backslide now and then.  An actual discussion OTOH usually provides opportunities for all to learn something in the exchange.

Yes.  Attempting to understand climate involves a great deal of study.  I've a couple more shelves of books and hundreds of links due to that study.   Interesting as it is though, climate study usually has to take a back seat to the daily realities and more urgent studies.
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: Eddie on May 20, 2015, 12:08:45 PM
Very briefly the TPTB used their banks to indebt governments by fomenting wars which increased government debt and enriched their war supply corps.  They could arrange the probable "winner" in these wars by controlling the amount of funds available to the loser. This continued while they moved to control the financial sector by establishing central banks.  If one of the parties to an arranged conflict did not have a central bank, it would be easier to install one after it "lost" and needed funds to rebuild. 

 Once they could "print" unlimited  money through central banks they used this to acquire control of the major corporations with focus on insurance, trading, media, energy and "defense".    In parallel they moved to control education and science, for many reasons, but primarily to control "disruptive" innovations that could threaten their dominance.   This results in a propaganda education where a person is taught what to believe instead of critical thinking skills.  In fields where critical thinking is absolutely necessary, students are taught to confine that activity to their specialty.


I might not agree with you every time, SL, but I'm on the same page with you on this part.
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: Petty Tyrant on May 20, 2015, 04:05:02 PM
Very briefly the TPTB used their banks to indebt governments by fomenting wars which increased government debt and enriched their war supply corps.  They could arrange the probable "winner" in these wars by controlling the amount of funds available to the loser. This continued while they moved to control the financial sector by establishing central banks.  If one of the parties to an arranged conflict did not have a central bank, it would be easier to install one after it "lost" and needed funds to rebuild. 

 Once they could "print" unlimited  money through central banks they used this to acquire control of the major corporations with focus on insurance, trading, media, energy and "defense".    In parallel they moved to control education and science, for many reasons, but primarily to control "disruptive" innovations that could threaten their dominance.   This results in a propaganda education where a person is taught what to believe instead of critical thinking skills.  In fields where critical thinking is absolutely necessary, students are taught to confine that activity to their specialty.


I might not agree with you every time, SL, but I'm on the same page with you on this part.

So am i and he has explained a mechanism working. However he cant say that education and science is controlled and not to be trusted where it suits and say also scientists  have no dog in the fight when it suits also. This is like someone else here who consistently appeals to authority of science in peak oil and says in the next breath that science can not be trusted on climate change.

Why isnt any Other semi arid area than african savannah rereturning to rainforest thanks to extRa carbon dioxide,  instead of desertification increasing?  maybe because in africa elephants  eat and knock down trees. Ivory poachers kill all the elephants and trees increase in their  habitat but nowhere else around the world?

Still no word on waters  warming or when the hottest years on record are?

there is no explanation of how a need to reduce pollution leads to bankers controlling energy production and supply. Every country does its own thing in this regard. We repealed the carbon tax here. We dont have smog like china. China has to cut its suffocating smog so reduces  its pollution. As great as it is for us to breathe out co2 and trees to brearhe it in as u say snowleopard, that doesnt negate the heating from the burning u deny. In the chinese city with all that burning it is really hot but as soon as u get out of the city its a lot cooler.

as for banker funding control, polluters get the subsidies not the renewables. govts are not doing anything near  enough to meet what the scientists  say is necessary. Why not?  Why not dance to the banks tune on this agenda?

Where is the united nations or bank control in that. Tell me why for the wars we have bipartisan  support and adherence to tow the party line and no politician  ever speaks against the cost or the effectiveness or rightness of any military action and the us does not wait for un anymore or any ally wait for it. Accepting that they are in conduit and control  for the biggest bankers because we can see exactly how that works. Yet somehow on this other  climate change control agenda politicians  can get out of line and call it out as a bs or control agenda and resist at every turn With no explanation of how it helps the banks.

if carbon tax revenue which goes to govt not banks was the goal we would not have abolished it after introducing it. We would not have just lowered our emissions targets by making the biggest  polluters exempt. Carbon credits and trading  is just like trying to introducee water credits and trading when the water is running out. Its trying to apply a monetary market solution In a world where market and money is king. It wont work because u cant breathe or drink money.
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: knarf on May 20, 2015, 04:21:39 PM
CLIMATE CHANGE IS UN-LED HOAX TO CREATE ‘NEW WORLD ORDER’ – AUSTRALIAN PM’S ADVISER 

http://www.infowars.com/climate-change-is-un-led-hoax-to-create-new-world-order-australian-pms-adviser/ (http://www.infowars.com/climate-change-is-un-led-hoax-to-create-new-world-order-australian-pms-adviser/)
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: Petty Tyrant on May 20, 2015, 04:45:14 PM
CLIMATE CHANGE IS UN-LED HOAX TO CREATE ‘NEW WORLD ORDER’ – AUSTRALIAN PM’S ADVISER 

http://www.infowars.com/climate-change-is-un-led-hoax-to-create-new-world-order-australian-pms-adviser/ (http://www.infowars.com/climate-change-is-un-led-hoax-to-create-new-world-order-australian-pms-adviser/)

This is the same article that started the thread knarf. The other u posted in the other thread would help. Which shows the science snowleopard can replicate himself to demonstrate the heat trapping proprty of co2.
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: knarf on May 20, 2015, 05:01:52 PM
http://rt.com/news/256861-climate-change-un-hoax/ (http://rt.com/news/256861-climate-change-un-hoax/)

http://www.infowars.com/climate-change-is-un-led-hoax-to-create-new-world-order-australian-pms-adviser/ (http://www.infowars.com/climate-change-is-un-led-hoax-to-create-new-world-order-australian-pms-adviser/)

Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: Petty Tyrant on May 20, 2015, 05:23:53 PM
http://rt.com/news/256861-climate-change-un-hoax/ (http://rt.com/news/256861-climate-change-un-hoax/)

 

http://www.infowars.com/climate-change-is-un-led-hoax-to-create-new-world-order-australian-pms-adviser/ (http://www.infowars.com/climate-change-is-un-led-hoax-to-create-new-world-order-australian-pms-adviser/)

These are word for word the same. I meant the "how do we know" article.
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: knarf on May 20, 2015, 08:10:13 PM
UB- if you have any questions about the web page   http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/ (http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/) please address your questions to them.
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: JoeP on May 23, 2015, 04:53:34 PM
  Bingo. Brilliant analysis. Thank you, Snowleopard. You must do this more often and in even greater detail.  Wow.                                                                  Karpatok

I would also like to say "Thank You" to Snowleopard.  Fantastic analysis man.

FYI - I've been away from the Diner due to a back issue, but might be able to participate more while I am recovering.  Physical therapy is very time consuming at this time. Best wishes to all.
 
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: Karpatok on May 23, 2015, 05:16:43 PM
  Bingo. Brilliant analysis. Thank you, Snowleopard. You must do this more often and in even greater detail.  Wow.                                                                  Karpatok

I would also like to say "Thank You" to Snowleopard.  Fantastic analysis man.

FYI - I've been away from the Diner due to a back issue, but might be able to participate more while I am recovering.  Physical therapy is very time consuming at this time. Best wishes to all.
 
  Hey Joe P. Sorry to hear about your back trouble. Hope it's better soon. It seems to happen to many from time to time. But it's wonderful that you've  led a life of self respect and not self destruction so that at this point in time you don't have to prostitute your soul and resort to flimflam to make ends meet. Karpatok
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: JoeP on May 24, 2015, 10:32:00 AM
  Bingo. Brilliant analysis. Thank you, Snowleopard. You must do this more often and in even greater detail.  Wow.                                                                  Karpatok

I would also like to say "Thank You" to Snowleopard.  Fantastic analysis man.

FYI - I've been away from the Diner due to a back issue, but might be able to participate more while I am recovering.  Physical therapy is very time consuming at this time. Best wishes to all.
 
  Hey Joe P. Sorry to hear about your back trouble. Hope it's better soon. It seems to happen to many from time to time. But it's wonderful that you've  led a life of self respect and not self destruction so that at this point in time you don't have to prostitute your soul and resort to flimflam to make ends meet. Karpatok

Thank you for the thoughts Karpatok. I've never been much on flimflam, so I guess it's a good thing I haven't gone this route.  I probably wouldn't be very good at it anyway. 
 
I think I realized my "flimflam" deficiencies when I was in college. I thought I had all my course requirements met in my senior year, but sometime in the process, the University decided one of my courses (that transferred from another school) did not qualify as a Humanities course.  It qualified initially in my sophomore year but I wasn't notified that it no longer met the requirement until it was too late.  So this meant I had to attend school the next semester and take one class (Philosophy) to graduate.  So that summer, I stayed with my dad and his wife in Myrtle Beach, SC.  I got a job at a large gift/souvenir store that I'd worked at a previous summer.  Took a new job handing out invitations to people to attend a time-share buying "opportunity".  While doing this one day, I gave a couple my short pitch and brochure and the man told me he was in the time-share business and asked me to come to their office to interview for a sales position.  I did it, then went and took a test (after studying a couple of days) in Columbia, SC to get "certified" to sell timeshare.  So off I go into a "real world" commission-only  job selling real estate for a couple of months.  I wasn't good at it.  I barely made  more money selling the shit than I did ringing up crap at the gift store.  The product was shit IMO and I felt dirty selling it.  I did not meet the necessary flimflam requirements I suppose. 
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: Karpatok on May 24, 2015, 06:53:15 PM
  Bingo. Brilliant analysis. Thank you, Snowleopard. You must do this more often and in even greater detail.  Wow.                                                                  Karpatok

I would also like to say "Thank You" to Snowleopard.  Fantastic analysis man.

FYI - I've been away from the Diner due to a back issue, but might be able to participate more while I am recovering.  Physical therapy is very time consuming at this time. Best wishes to all.
 
  Hey Joe P. Sorry to hear about your back trouble. Hope it's better soon. It seems to happen to many from time to time. But it's wonderful that you've  led a life of self respect and not self destruction so that at this point in time you don't have to prostitute your soul and resort to flimflam to make ends meet. Karpatok

Thank you for the thoughts Karpatok. I've never been much on flimflam, so I guess it's a good thing I haven't gone this route.  I probably wouldn't be very good at it anyway.
 
I think I realized my "flimflam" deficiencies when I was in college. I thought I had all my course requirements met in my senior year, but sometime in the process, the University decided one of my courses (that transferred from another school) did not qualify as a Humanities course.  It qualified initially in my sophomore year but I wasn't notified that it no longer met the requirement until it was too late.  So this meant I had to attend school the next semester and take one class (Philosophy) to graduate.  So that summer, I stayed with my dad and his wife in Myrtle Beach, SC.  I got a job at a large gift/souvenir store that I'd worked at a previous summer.  Took a new job handing out invitations to people to attend a time-share buying "opportunity".  While doing this one day, I gave a couple my short pitch and brochure and the man told me he was in the time-share business and asked me to come to their office to interview for a sales position.  I did it, then went and took a test (after studying a couple of days) in Columbia, SC to get "certified" to sell timeshare.  So off I go into a "real world" commission-only  job selling real estate for a couple of months.  I wasn't good at it.  I barely made  more money selling the shit than I did ringing up crap at the gift store.  The product was shit IMO and I felt dirty selling it.  I did not meet the necessary flimflam requirements I suppose.
  Well Joe P, I strongly suspect that just maybe you were inoculated against the spreading of flimflam through the ethics you absorbed throughout your upbringing. Some of that ethical core sticks with us long after we think we've left all that background behind. High pressure flimflam and pulling the wool over everybody's eyes always reminds me of Upton Sinclair's portrayal of that fine upstanding icon of American fundamentalism, the preacher Elmer Gantry, an ultimate hypocrite if their ever was one. Also never forget that other paragon of American parasitology, PT Barnum who gave world class lessons in hucksterism. They are both excellent examples of what Morris Berman describes as America having always operated as a land on the make.  Now I happen to believe that doing a needful service and being remunerated for it is a very good thing. It along with love actually makes the world go round. On the other hand, big greedy flimflam as a way to make your way in life, always with profit in mind is another thing entirely, not to mention getting into the area of actually lying. Of course, people who like to make a joke of everything and are very comfortable with the profane and have no use for the sacred, try to excuse themselves and rationalize that they are only exaggerating a little so it's all OK and so the tall tales grow somewhat like Pinnochio's nose. The greater concern of course is the well being of the flimflammed followers. I guess that's why there has always been the admonishment of "Buyer Beware".                        Karpatok
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: Snowleopard on May 24, 2015, 08:53:43 PM
  Bingo. Brilliant analysis. Thank you, Snowleopard. You must do this more often and in even greater detail.  Wow.                                                                  Karpatok

Hi K 

Thanks for the applause. 

Yes, it would be good to expand on that little PTB summary.  Perhaps distill the volumes of others into a concise historical essay, while dodging their conflicts.

But what I "must" do (chop wood, carry water, feed animals, milk goats, till gardens etc) often takes up all available time, to the point of not turning on the computer for days at a time.  Then there are last week's little extras:  like an injured dog, marauding bear(s), two frost/freeze warnings and new chicks to care for.  So I won't make any promises.

Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: Karpatok on May 24, 2015, 10:11:03 PM
  Bingo. Brilliant analysis. Thank you, Snowleopard. You must do this more often and in even greater detail.  Wow.                                                                  Karpatok

Hi K 

Thanks for the applause. 

Yes, it would be good to expand on that little PTB summary.  Perhaps distill the volumes of others into a concise historical essay, while dodging their conflicts.

But what I "must" do (chop wood, carry water, feed animals, milk goats, till gardens etc) often takes up all available time, to the point of not turning on the computer for days at a time.  Then there are last week's little extras:  like an injured dog, marauding bear(s), two frost/freeze warnings and new chicks to care for.  So I won't make any promises.
Well Snowleopard, still your life is blessed with the farm and all. Being able to take care of the animals is a blessing also for them and for you, I hope. Be kind to the bear. He is magnificent and also has his place in nature. Me, in my little life here feeding and watering all the wildlife I can draw, I too am blessed and get to know each one as they all have individual personalities just like us. Right now, I have six new shiny baby skunks whose mother has brought them to this little oasis[for them] to learn how to be weaned. They are like little ducks with their plumey tails, all skittering about with the newness of it all. And the raccoons come, and the squirrels and possums and the California brown ground birds. And all share in peace, if there is enough, and are most grateful for the water in this drought. When I change it, I feed the tree, which shelters them all, all except the skunks of course who have their burrows somewhere in a nearby empty field. They are all a valuable part of great nature if only mankind could understand that fact, Karpatok
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: azozeo on May 25, 2015, 02:55:03 AM
  Bingo. Brilliant analysis. Thank you, Snowleopard. You must do this more often and in even greater detail.  Wow.                                                                  Karpatok

I would also like to say "Thank You" to Snowleopard.  Fantastic analysis man.

FYI - I've been away from the Diner due to a back issue, but might be able to participate more while I am recovering.  Physical therapy is very time consuming at this time. Best wishes to all.
 
  Hey Joe P. Sorry to hear about your back trouble. Hope it's better soon. It seems to happen to many from time to time. But it's wonderful that you've  led a life of self respect and not self destruction so that at this point in time you don't have to prostitute your soul and resort to flimflam to make ends meet. Karpatok

Thank you for the thoughts Karpatok. I've never been much on flimflam, so I guess it's a good thing I haven't gone this route.  I probably wouldn't be very good at it anyway.
 
I think I realized my "flimflam" deficiencies when I was in college. I thought I had all my course requirements met in my senior year, but sometime in the process, the University decided one of my courses (that transferred from another school) did not qualify as a Humanities course.  It qualified initially in my sophomore year but I wasn't notified that it no longer met the requirement until it was too late.  So this meant I had to attend school the next semester and take one class (Philosophy) to graduate.  So that summer, I stayed with my dad and his wife in Myrtle Beach, SC.  I got a job at a large gift/souvenir store that I'd worked at a previous summer.  Took a new job handing out invitations to people to attend a time-share buying "opportunity".  While doing this one day, I gave a couple my short pitch and brochure and the man told me he was in the time-share business and asked me to come to their office to interview for a sales position.  I did it, then went and took a test (after studying a couple of days) in Columbia, SC to get "certified" to sell timeshare.  So off I go into a "real world" commission-only  job selling real estate for a couple of months.  I wasn't good at it.  I barely made  more money selling the shit than I did ringing up crap at the gift store.  The product was shit IMO and I felt dirty selling it.  I did not meet the necessary flimflam requirements I suppose.


I know the feeling, Joe. Hard to close your eyes & sleep at night
knowing your bilking the public. I was involved in the timeshare
scenario here in Az. Next to the London Bridge no less. (no, I wasn't
pimping the bridge to people).
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: JoeP on May 25, 2015, 05:58:22 AM
I know the feeling, Joe. Hard to close your eyes & sleep at night
knowing your bilking the public. I was involved in the timeshare
scenario here in Az. Next to the London Bridge no less. (no, I wasn't
pimping the bridge to people).

There were some nice folks at the place I worked at.  The man that asked me to interview seemed to be a very nice person.  He was a "closer" meaning when one of the sales reps had a person to the point of considering purchasing a week(s) of TS, he would enter the meeting and try to close the deal.   He made six figures doing this and this was back in '82.   I think he talked himself into believing the product was legit.  
 
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: Petty Tyrant on May 25, 2015, 06:21:45 AM
I know the feeling, Joe. Hard to close your eyes & sleep at night
knowing your bilking the public. I was involved in the timeshare
scenario here in Az. Next to the London Bridge no less. (no, I wasn't
pimping the bridge to people).
.   I think he talked himself into believing the product was legit. 

"Its not a lie if u believe it Jerry" ;  George Costanza
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: Joseph McCafferty on May 25, 2015, 08:06:10 AM
I know the feeling, Joe. Hard to close your eyes & sleep at night
knowing your bilking the public. I was involved in the timeshare
scenario here in Az. Next to the London Bridge no less. (no, I wasn't
pimping the bridge to people).
.   I think he talked himself into believing the product was legit. 

"Its not a lie if u believe it Jerry" ;  George Costanza

"It takes two to lie. One to lie, and one to listen" - Homer Simpson.
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: MKing on May 25, 2015, 12:58:47 PM
I demand that the UN pass a law that all climate hoaxes must stop.
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: Karpatok on May 25, 2015, 03:20:15 PM
I know the feeling, Joe. Hard to close your eyes & sleep at night
knowing your bilking the public. I was involved in the timeshare
scenario here in Az. Next to the London Bridge no less. (no, I wasn't
pimping the bridge to people).
.   I think he talked himself into believing the product was legit. 

"Its not a lie if u believe it Jerry" ;  George Costanza
  Wow UB and Jerry. That certainly explains Colin Powell, George W Bush and John Kerry and Barack OBama and Victoria Nuland and the Clinton Twins then. Even that good old socialist ZioNazi Bernie. Thanks for the quote. Karpatok
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: Karpatok on May 25, 2015, 03:27:05 PM
  Bingo. Brilliant analysis. Thank you, Snowleopard. You must do this more often and in even greater detail.  Wow.                                                                  Karpatok

I would also like to say "Thank You" to Snowleopard.  Fantastic analysis man.

FYI - I've been away from the Diner due to a back issue, but might be able to participate more while I am recovering.  Physical therapy is very time consuming at this time. Best wishes to all.
 
  Hey Joe P. Sorry to hear about your back trouble. Hope it's better soon. It seems to happen to many from time to time. But it's wonderful that you've  led a life of self respect and not self destruction so that at this point in time you don't have to prostitute your soul and resort to flimflam to make ends meet. Karpatok

Thank you for the thoughts Karpatok. I've never been much on flimflam, so I guess it's a good thing I haven't gone this route.  I probably wouldn't be very good at it anyway.
 
I think I realized my "flimflam" deficiencies when I was in college. I thought I had all my course requirements met in my senior year, but sometime in the process, the University decided one of my courses (that transferred from another school) did not qualify as a Humanities course.  It qualified initially in my sophomore year but I wasn't notified that it no longer met the requirement until it was too late.  So this meant I had to attend school the next semester and take one class (Philosophy) to graduate.  So that summer, I stayed with my dad and his wife in Myrtle Beach, SC.  I got a job at a large gift/souvenir store that I'd worked at a previous summer.  Took a new job handing out invitations to people to attend a time-share buying "opportunity".  While doing this one day, I gave a couple my short pitch and brochure and the man told me he was in the time-share business and asked me to come to their office to interview for a sales position.  I did it, then went and took a test (after studying a couple of days) in Columbia, SC to get "certified" to sell timeshare.  So off I go into a "real world" commission-only  job selling real estate for a couple of months.  I wasn't good at it.  I barely made  more money selling the shit than I did ringing up crap at the gift store.  The product was shit IMO and I felt dirty selling it.  I did not meet the necessary flimflam requirements I suppose.
  I guess that was because you were inoculated against them by your former grounding in ethics and a good nose for putridness. Something to be said for a strong core of integrity. Even among minorities.       Karpatok
Title: Re: Oz PM exposes UN led climate hoax
Post by: Snowleopard on June 05, 2015, 07:22:43 PM
  Bingo. Brilliant analysis. Thank you, Snowleopard. You must do this more often and in even greater detail.  Wow.                                                                  Karpatok

Hi K 

Thanks for the applause. 

Yes, it would be good to expand on that little PTB summary.  Perhaps distill the volumes of others into a concise historical essay, while dodging their conflicts.

But what I "must" do (chop wood, carry water, feed animals, milk goats, till gardens etc) often takes up all available time, to the point of not turning on the computer for days at a time.  Then there are last week's little extras:  like an injured dog, marauding bear(s), two frost/freeze warnings and new chicks to care for.  So I won't make any promises.
Well Snowleopard, still your life is blessed with the farm and all. Being able to take care of the animals is a blessing also for them and for you, I hope. Be kind to the bear. He is magnificent and also has his place in nature. Me, in my little life here feeding and watering all the wildlife I can draw, I too am blessed and get to know each one as they all have individual personalities just like us. Right now, I have six new shiny baby skunks whose mother has brought them to this little oasis[for them] to learn how to be weaned. They are like little ducks with their plumey tails, all skittering about with the newness of it all. And the raccoons come, and the squirrels and possums and the California brown ground birds. And all share in peace, if there is enough, and are most grateful for the water in this drought. When I change it, I feed the tree, which shelters them all, all except the skunks of course who have their burrows somewhere in a nearby empty field. They are all a valuable part of great nature if only mankind could understand that fact, Karpatok



I too enjoy, respect and support most of the wildlife that visits my "farm".  Water and birdseed is provided with an eye to hawk avoidance.

Skunks, racoons, mink, and fisher cat smell my dogs and go elsewhere.  Usually the dogs also keep the bears at a distance, but not this year.  Wild turkey, deer and moose will occasionally wander in.

But no, I'm not "kind" to the bear, who "visited" again last evening.  My dogs are somewhat scared of the bear(s?) and the bear is somewhat more scared of them.  This keeps the dogs alive and limits bear damage.   

Due to "global warming" ::)  the berries are very late this year, and the bear has little to eat.  I do sympathize, but feeding bears is illegal here (and dangerous).   There is no easy way to make friends with a bear and attempting to do so is also illegal in my state.  So I front load a shotgun with "less lethal" rubber buckshot for bear scaring and aim to miss but intimidate (per fish and game officer instruction).  The officers would rather I not feed the birds either, because the birdseed attracts the bears, but I like to watch the birds.  Thus far (~20yr) I've not had to aim AT a bear, and have not used a whole box (25) of special shells yet.