Doomstead Diner Menu => Doomsteading => SUN ☼ => Topic started by: RE on May 22, 2015, 12:54:32 AM

Title: Thinking About Starting an Intentional Community
Post by: RE on May 22, 2015, 12:54:32 AM
From r/collapse (http://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/36svz5/thinking_about_starting_an_intentional_community/) on Reddit, a text submission by redethmoid.

RE

Quote from: redethmoid
Without retelling my life story, I'm in my early 30's, long term unemployed (am working on getting a job, sparing the details). I've followed personae in the collapse community along the likes of John Michael Greer, Dmitri Orlov, James Howard Kunstler, Ran Prieur among others.

I prescribe to Greer's descending staircase theory of collapse, to give you an idea where I'm coming from. I live in a suburban neighborhood in a coastal North-east US state. I don't have much money or resources to prep. I do what I can by collecting survival books, preparing myself mentally and waiting to earn again so I can devote a portion of it to stocking supplies.

I believe we descended a step toward collapse (to use the Arch Druid's analogy) probably sometime after the 2008 recession. I have little to no hope we'll recover the quality of life that I was accustomed to growing up in the 90's (of course that could depend on where you were and your circumstances). In my opinion it was the zenith of the American prosperity, that after 9/11, spiraled down from there, but anyway...

I feel like I have to do something, and I was very inspired by learning about the Roma culture as described by Dmitri Orlov. If you've read his blog, or listened to his interviews, you hopefully know what I'm talking about. I have family commitments, few resources, I don't expect the world to end tomorrow, and I can't run for the hills and live off the land (actually, that would be a remote possibility, but I'm too entrenched in suburbia/unprepared for something like that. It would probably result in a gruesome death for me.)

I was thinking about starting a local meetup group (not sure if you would call it an intentional community per se), based on the Roma and other minority groups' survival tactics. But I'm not sure how I would conduct it, or how I would come off to others to start one. I want to subvert the status quo somehow, by forming a resilience circle and becoming less dependent on the system that has basically been set up to screw the little people over. I need advice, stories, ideas, or even to be told to just keep searching for work, if this idea is stupid. I'm just not sure what to do anymore. The daily meaninglessness of it all has gotten to me, not to mention the social isolation. I'm an introvert/shy, but it's gotten to me over the years. I'm willing to fight through it to start a group that can brainstorm ways to cope without the things in place such as a steady income, job, or other support.

I wonder if it would even help me get a job, by proving I can be a self starter, and have leadership qualities, though I wouldn't want to freak an interviewer out to tell them I lead a group that expects civilization might end in our lifetime. Any insights you have for me would be much appreciated, thanks.
Title: Re: Thinking About Starting an Intentional Community
Post by: azozeo on May 22, 2015, 02:41:15 AM
When 2 or more gather, it's a meeting.
How do you eat an elephant ? One bite at a time.
My golden path started with one "intention". Where's the damn gold?  :icon_scratch:
Place a note at the local laundromat or grocery store community bulletin board .
Go on your local Craigslist on the web & find the prepper blog.  Good Luck..... Az
Title: Re: Thinking About Starting an Intentional Community
Post by: Eddie on May 22, 2015, 04:41:02 AM
I feel like I have to do something, and I was very inspired by learning about the Roma culture as described by Dmitri Orlov. If you've read his blog, or listened to his interviews, you hopefully know what I'm talking about. I have family commitments, few resources, I don't expect the world to end tomorrow, and I can't run for the hills and live off the land (actually, that would be a remote possibility, but I'm too entrenched in suburbia/unprepared for something like that. It would probably result in a gruesome death for me.)

The closest thing we have to the Roma Culture is the RV Underground, like those who park in the Amazon lot and do seasonal work and that kind of thing. I've posted this link before.

http://www.cheaprvliving.com (http://www.cheaprvliving.com)

My feeling is that it doesn't work well for those with kids. There may someday be a Roma type culture here, but there will have to be a big die-off first, because there is absolutely nowhere to "be" without paying somebody. Some live in vans or pick-up campers that aren't too big to park on city streets, and they fly under the radar that way. You might the able to come in to state parks at dark and leave at sun-up to avoid paying for a campsite. Not saying it can't be done, but the idea of parking your wagon under a spreading chestnut tree on the edge of town is a fantasy.
Title: Re: Thinking About Starting an Intentional Community
Post by: RE on May 22, 2015, 05:01:20 AM
It's gonna be tough to live a Roma lifestyle when you can't get gas for the RV.

RE
Title: Re: Thinking About Starting an Intentional Community
Post by: Eddie on May 22, 2015, 05:37:32 AM
Yep. That too.
Title: Re: Thinking About Starting an Intentional Community
Post by: MKing on May 22, 2015, 06:49:21 AM
From r/collapse (http://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/36svz5/thinking_about_starting_an_intentional_community/) on Reddit, a text submission by redethmoid.

RE

Quote from: redethmoid
Without retelling my life story, I'm in my early 30's, long term unemployed (am working on getting a job, sparing the details). I've followed personae in the collapse community along the likes of John Michael Greer, Dmitri Orlov, James Howard Kunstler, Ran Prieur among others.

I prescribe to Greer's descending staircase theory of collapse, to give you an idea where I'm coming from. I live in a suburban neighborhood in a coastal North-east US state. I don't have much money or resources to prep. I do what I can by collecting survival books, preparing myself mentally and waiting to earn again so I can devote a portion of it to stocking supplies.

I believe we descended a step toward collapse (to use the Arch Druid's analogy) probably sometime after the 2008 recession. I have little to no hope we'll recover the quality of life that I was accustomed to growing up in the 90's (of course that could depend on where you were and your circumstances). In my opinion it was the zenith of the American prosperity, that after 9/11, spiraled down from there, but anyway...

I feel like I have to do something, and I was very inspired by learning about the Roma culture as described by Dmitri Orlov. If you've read his blog, or listened to his interviews, you hopefully know what I'm talking about. I have family commitments, few resources, I don't expect the world to end tomorrow, and I can't run for the hills and live off the land (actually, that would be a remote possibility, but I'm too entrenched in suburbia/unprepared for something like that. It would probably result in a gruesome death for me.)

I was thinking about starting a local meetup group (not sure if you would call it an intentional community per se), based on the Roma and other minority groups' survival tactics. But I'm not sure how I would conduct it, or how I would come off to others to start one. I want to subvert the status quo somehow, by forming a resilience circle and becoming less dependent on the system that has basically been set up to screw the little people over. I need advice, stories, ideas, or even to be told to just keep searching for work, if this idea is stupid. I'm just not sure what to do anymore. The daily meaninglessness of it all has gotten to me, not to mention the social isolation. I'm an introvert/shy, but it's gotten to me over the years. I'm willing to fight through it to start a group that can brainstorm ways to cope without the things in place such as a steady income, job, or other support.

I wonder if it would even help me get a job, by proving I can be a self starter, and have leadership qualities, though I wouldn't want to freak an interviewer out to tell them I lead a group that expects civilization might end in our lifetime. Any insights you have for me would be much appreciated, thanks.

Sounds like someone coming to the realization of exactly how bad he has been hosed by the Boomer generation.
Title: Re: Thinking About Starting an Intentional Community
Post by: MKing on May 22, 2015, 06:50:36 AM
It's gonna be tough to live a Roma lifestyle when you can't get gas for the RV.

RE

You'll always be able to get it, those trillions of barrels already discovered and "in the bank" as it were aren't the issue. Now the COST of that gasoline is something else.
Title: Re: Thinking About Starting an Intentional Community
Post by: Eddie on May 22, 2015, 07:21:25 AM
I expect that for the foreseeable future, the problem will be having enough cash to buy fuel, and not a complete dearth of product.

Look at the RV age retirees now. Buying fewer giant busses, and more high mileage Sprinter Van units. They pay just as much, almost for the smaller RV, but it takes far less to run it.
Title: Re: Thinking About Starting an Intentional Community
Post by: Eddie on May 22, 2015, 07:23:24 AM
Sounds like someone coming to the realization of exactly how bad he has been hosed by the Boomer generation.

Most definitely. But it's kind of like me hating the elites. So what? Doesn't change anything. The boomers will all be dead pretty soon. Too late to get revenge even.
Title: Re: Thinking About Starting an Intentional Community
Post by: RE on May 22, 2015, 07:44:52 AM
It's gonna be tough to live a Roma lifestyle when you can't get gas for the RV.

RE

You'll always be able to get it, those trillions of barrels already discovered and "in the bank" as it were aren't the issue. Now the COST of that gasoline is something else.

You're outta your mind.  The system only runs at large scale, not enough buyers and the refineries all go broke.  Refineries go broke, no gas.

You're an idiot.  Stick to geochemistry and lithofacies, you have no grasp of economics at all.

RE
Title: Re: Thinking About Starting an Intentional Community
Post by: MKing on May 22, 2015, 12:49:25 PM
It's gonna be tough to live a Roma lifestyle when you can't get gas for the RV.

RE

You'll always be able to get it, those trillions of barrels already discovered and "in the bank" as it were aren't the issue. Now the COST of that gasoline is something else.

You're outta your mind.  The system only runs at large scale, not enough buyers and the refineries all go broke.  Refineries go broke, no gas.

Good thing then that this is just as ridiculous a scenario as the martial law you were offering odds on back in 2008.

Quote from: RE
You're an idiot.  Stick to geochemistry and lithofacies, you have no grasp of economics at all.

RE

Says the man without a supply or demand curve in site.

I understand why you like economists, they tell their stories based on arm waving and interpretation. Or, in your case, finger tapping and ignorance. You had no more to fear from martial law in 2008 than you do now of refineries closing down to the point where there is more supply of feedstock than manufactured product.

Title: Re: Thinking About Starting an Intentional Community
Post by: knarf on May 22, 2015, 03:40:56 PM
This is a good website with tons of intentional communities forming, exisiting, etc.

http://www.ic.org/ (http://www.ic.org/)
Title: Re: Thinking About Starting an Intentional Community
Post by: azozeo on May 22, 2015, 04:33:31 PM
This is a good website with tons of intentional communities forming, exisiting, etc.

http://www.ic.org/ (http://www.ic.org/)

Thanks again for the link Knarf.
Title: Re: Thinking About Starting an Intentional Community
Post by: Nearingsfault on January 29, 2017, 08:40:55 PM
Even at 48 I still remember the angst of having figured out how screwed up the world around me was but not yet having found how I was going to cope with it.  I got lucky; found a trade, found the right person to share my life with, found cheap land and built something.  I toyed with intentional communities and probably would have gone that route in another life.  There is romance in the roma vision but also major dangers.  The nomad is targeted when things go bad economically or socially.  It also seems that much of nomad culture in North America is based on cheap energy.  If times get hard I would prefer being surrounded by like minded people trying to build something then living on the fringes of a failing society.
My two cents,    David Baillie
Title: Re: Thinking About Starting an Intentional Community
Post by: RE on January 29, 2017, 08:54:26 PM
Even at 48 I still remember the angst of having figured out how screwed up the world around me was but not yet having found how I was going to cope with it.  I got lucky; found a trade, found the right person to share my life with, found cheap land and built something.  I toyed with intentional communities and probably would have gone that route in another life.  There is romance in the roma vision but also major dangers.  The nomad is targeted when things go bad economically or socially.  It also seems that much of nomad culture in North America is based on cheap energy.  If times get hard I would prefer being surrounded by like minded people trying to build something then living on the fringes of a failing society.
My two cents,    David Baillie

All the "proposed solutions" have problems.

Independent Doomsteads are too vulnerable, and generally not really self-sustaing.  The Gypsie life tends to rely on fossil fuels these days.  Sea Gypsie living too vulnerable to Pirates and to making landfall anywhere people are already living.  Intentional Communities are hard to set up because everyone is so into Individuality and if they do have enough money, they foolishly set up the Independent Doomstead.

So all in all, rather an intractable problem, but I'm not giving up!  :icon_sunny:

RE
Title: Re: Thinking About Starting an Intentional Community
Post by: Nearingsfault on January 30, 2017, 05:34:33 AM
We have been thinking a lot lately on selling and rebuilding near some like minded people.  The vulnerabilities have become apparent especially now that kids are part of the mix.  Bigest weakness is trying to cover every base which is expensive and time consuming. We've learned a lot from this incarnation though.
Title: Re: Thinking About Starting an Intentional Community
Post by: RE on January 30, 2017, 05:50:28 AM
We have been thinking a lot lately on selling and rebuilding near some like minded people.  The vulnerabilities have become apparent especially now that kids are part of the mix.  Bigest weakness is trying to cover every base which is expensive and time consuming. We've learned a lot from this incarnation though.

Issue there is on selling out, first off you have to find a bigger fool who will buy the Doomstead you set up, with all the time and work you put into it.  Then you need to find those "like minded people" to buiild near, and where do you find those?  They're not in the phone book or really even listed on the internet, although there are lists of "Transition Towns" around out there.  You have no clue really if they match with you philosophically though, and in reality almost all successful communities have some kind of religious component to them.  If you are a Fundy Christian, you can probably find a Fundy Christian Survival Group to join with.  If you are a Buddhist, you can find a Monastery to go be a Monk at, but if married with kids, this is kind of out of the question.

Then you also got the problem if you still have one foot in the door of the industrial economy.  If you find the "ideal community", but it is in Timbuktu whie your current job is in Peoria, it's quite hard to transition over to there.

I have solutions to these problems, but Eddie never listens to them.  lol.

RE
Title: Re: Thinking About Starting an Intentional Community
Post by: JRM on January 30, 2017, 08:26:27 AM
Look into ecovillages.  The real ones don't require you to drive from your rural community into a city twenty or forty miles away.  In fact, they don't involve personal car ownership at all.  The community may own a few cars, collectively, however -- though they may run on used french fry oil.

A real ecovillage has a mostly local economy, with food and shelter... and most things being produced within the village economy. None of them are perfect, but some are close enough.
Title: Re: Thinking About Starting an Intentional Community
Post by: Nearingsfault on February 25, 2017, 01:22:17 PM
If I was single and without resources I would look into intentional communities.  At this stage I think we would rebuild closer to a hub of like minded people in their own homes and land.  We built fairly conventionally with an eye on someday selling if desired.  Staying put would work to if re is right and I can't find a buyer.