Doomstead Diner Menu => Geopolitics => Topic started by: RE on June 18, 2015, 03:46:51 AM

Title: Official Race War Thread
Post by: RE on June 18, 2015, 03:46:51 AM
White Shooter. Black Church.  State Senator Dead.  8 more as well.  Shooter still at large.

RE

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-18/9-confirmed-dead-after-white-gunman-opens-fire-black-congregation-charleston-church- (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-18/9-confirmed-dead-after-white-gunman-opens-fire-black-congregation-charleston-church-)

9 Confirmed Dead After White Gunman Opens Fire On Black Congregation In Charleston Church, Shooter At Large

Tyler Durden's picture





 

9 people are confirmed dead, including State Senator Clementa Pinckney...

, after a white gunman opened fire inside one of Charleston’s oldest and most well known black churches tonight.

 

Mayor Joe Riley exclaimed, "this is an unspeakable and heartbreaking tragedy in this most historic church, an evil and hateful person took the lives of citizens who had come to worship and pray together.”

As The Post and Courier reports, a bomb threat complicated the investigation and prompted police to ask nearby residents to evacuate. The shooter is still at large...

Police and emergency vehicles swarmed several blocks surrounding Henrietta and Calhoun streets, just east of Marion Square. Barricades blocked off several streets to traffic, and police asked nearby residents to leave their homes.

 

The shooting occurred around 9 p.m. inside Emanuel AME Church at 110 Calhoun St. Police were seen exiting the 19th century church, and their presence extended blocks beyond the site.

 

Police were still looking for the gunman late Wednesday, and helicopters are hovering above. Police spokesman Charles Francis described the suspect as a 21-year-old white male in a gray sweatshirt/hoodie and jeans with Timberland boots. He has a slender build.

*  *  *

As The NY Times reports,

Around 10:45 p.m., police officers at the scene drew their weapons and later escorted a man in handcuffs, who appeared to match that description.

 

But officials said later that they were still searching for the gunman.

*  *  *

In a latest update, AP reports,

Charleston police say nine people have been killed in a shooting at a historic black church in what authorities intend to investigate as a hate crime.

 

Police Chief Greg Mullen says eight people were found dead Wednesday at Emanuel AME Church and another person died later at the hospital.

 

Mullen says a prayer meeting was going on at the church at the time of the shooting.

 

The shooter, described as a white male, was not yet in custody.


Title: Official Race War Thread:Charleston Church Shooter Identified-Manhunt Underway
Post by: RE on June 18, 2015, 08:07:06 AM
This is likely to perk up action this week.

RE

Police Identify Suspected Gunman In Church Massacre; Manhunt Underway - Live Feed (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-18/police-identify-suspected-gunman-church-massacre)

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 06/18/2015 10:46 -0400

    FBI Reuters South Carolina

The FBI has identified the suspect in the shooting that killed 9 at a historic black church in Charleston, South Carolina on Wednesday evening.

Earlier, police released the following security camera footage showing the suspect entering the church around 8 pm on Wednesday:

(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user92183/imageroot/2015/06/WantedPoster.jpg)

The man has been identified as 21-year old Dylann Roof, of Lexington.

(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user92183/imageroot/2015/06/DylannRoof.jpg)

Manhunt, live feed:

More, from IBTimes:

    Roof was arrested on unspecified drug charges in Lexington County, South Carolina last March, local television outlet WIS reported. A Facebook page purportedly belonging to Roof identified him as a Columbia, South Carolina resident who attended White Knoll High School in Lexington, South Carolina.

     

    Roof's uncle, 56-year-old Carson Cowles, said he recognized his nephew in the surveillance footage authorities released Thursday. "The more I look at him, the more I'm convinced, that's him," Cowles told Reuters.

     

    Cowles said Roof was "quiet" and "soft-spoken," Reuters notes. Roof's father, whose name has not been released, purportedly gave him a .45-caliber pistol for his 21st birthday, though it's unclear if that was the weapon used in the shooting.

     

    Six women and three men were killed Wednesday night when the shooting suspect opened fire at the church. The victim's names have not been released. The suspect may have disguised his appearance with a fake nose and wig, an anonymous law enforcement source told the Los Angeles Times.
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread: Charleston Church Shooter Caught!!
Post by: RE on June 18, 2015, 08:57:44 AM
He did it because they are raping white women.

RE

Quote
Chilling eyewitness testimony from USA Today:

    Sylvia Johnson, a cousin of Pinckney, the pastor, said one of the survivors told her that the gunman reloaded five times during the ordeal

    At point, as he was reloading, members of the group tried to get him to stop, Johnson told WIS News.

    "He just said 'I have to do it. You rape our women and you're taking over our country. And you have to go," Johnson said.

Nobody could jump him while he was reloading?  What?  Something smells fishy here.

RE
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Eddie on June 18, 2015, 09:31:05 AM
Just what we need, a white supremacist asshole shooting up a church full of Christians. Some sad shit that won't end here, I'm guessing.

I have to ask myself how this kind of scenario happens, and see how it fits into the general black v.white ongoing narrative. Is it some kid who grew up being taught to lay blame for everything under the sun on black people? Because there are families where that happens.

Or is he just a kid who bought into the neo-nazi skinhead meme that seems to be floating around out there?

A little mental illness thrown in, like a school shooter with a slightly different agenda? Because sane people don't go into churches and shoot people down like that.

I can't help thinking that it sure makes a good excuse to take away guns from law-abiding people. Could it be some kind of Clockwork Orange deliberate provocation? By somebody Machiavellian enough to think the ends justify any means? It seems so far-fetched, but I can't be sure that isn't the case. There will be strident calls for gun control once again. That much I know.

I still can't support that.



Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: RE on June 18, 2015, 09:41:46 AM
Just what we need, a white supremacist asshole shooting up a church full of Christians. Some sad shit that won't end here, I'm guessing.

I have to ask myself how this kind of scenario happens, and see how it fits into the general black v.white ongoing narrative. Is it some kid who grew up being taught to lay blame for everything under the sun on black people? Because there are families where that happens.

Or is he just a kid who bought into the neo-nazi skinhead meme that seems to be floating around out there?

A little mental illness thrown in, like a school shooter with a slightly different agenda? Because sane people don't go into churches and shoot people down like that.

I can't help thinking that it sure makes a good excuse to take away guns from law-abiding people. Could it be some kind of Clockwork Orange deliberate provocation? By somebody Machiavellian enough to think the ends justify any means? It seems so far-fetched, but I can't be sure that isn't the case. There will be strident calls for gun control once again. That much I know.

I still can't support that.

I have my own theories on this, but too beat now to write them up.  Need to go for a nap.

RE
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: knarf on June 18, 2015, 09:44:06 AM
Memphis church shooting not connected to Charleston church attack

(http://2d0yaz2jiom3c6vy7e7e5svk.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/shutterstock_220926268-e1434634452703-800x430.jpg)

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/shooter-opens-fire-on-church-in-memphis-hours-after-terrorist-kills-nine-in-charleston/ (http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/shooter-opens-fire-on-church-in-memphis-hours-after-terrorist-kills-nine-in-charleston/)
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Golden Oxen on June 18, 2015, 02:02:07 PM
Quote
Nobody could jump him while he was reloading?  What?  Something smells fishy here.

RE

Perhaps, but I certainly can envision them being paralyzed from shock and fear. What an ordeal.

This guy is real bad news; a friggin monster. 
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: agelbert on June 18, 2015, 03:44:44 PM
This just might be the trigger Chris Hedges has predicted will bring on the fecal matter hitting the rotating oscillator.   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-300714025456.bmp)
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Palloy on June 18, 2015, 07:35:04 PM
The number of murders seen on TV "entertainment" programs is just ridiculous.  Watched one for a bit last night where this beautiful young female agent was just shooting everything that moved - if they were dressed in black, or standing in the shadows, blam!  No cops chasing after her, she might even have been a cop.

Even worse are the video games, where that is ALL that happens.  If it moves, shoot it, with no "rule of law", or pricking of conscience, or anything except +1 point.

9 dead, and one of them was IMPORTANT (the others not so much, they were "just some folks").
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Eddie on June 19, 2015, 04:09:41 AM
I don't think any young man who has been to the woods to bring home meat...who has shot a deer, or a squirrel even, and watched it bleed,  and seen the lights go out in its eyes......and then had to skin it, gut it and turn it into food for the table, and then eaten it gratefully, thanking the animals spirit, would ever indiscriminately shoot human beings.

Thing is, with all the gratuitous violence in the fake world of media and games and the like...it creates little monsters for whom the acts they commit are not felt as reality.

A dose of reality, administered early by a grown man with a heart and a conscious...a good father, in other words...would go a long way towards ending this kind of behaviors among the hormonally overloaded 16-25 year old population. jmho.
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Surly1 on June 19, 2015, 07:18:31 AM
I don't think any young man who has been to the woods to bring home meat...who has shot a deer, or a squirrel even, and watched it bleed,  and seen the lights go out in its eyes......and then had to skin it, gut it and turn it into food for the table, and then eaten it gratefully, thanking the animals spirit, would ever indiscriminately shoot human beings.

Thing is, with all the gratuitous violence in the fake world of media and games and the like...it creates little monsters for whom the acts they commit are not felt as reality.

A dose of reality, administered early by a grown man with a heart and a conscious...a good father, in other words...would go a long way towards ending this kind of behaviors among the hormonally overloaded 16-25 year old population. jmho.

Possibly true.

There is another angle to consider.

I am in my office stealing a look at the DDFB page, etc., and came across this Facebook on my feed from William Rivers Pitt, senior writer for Truthout. It speaks for itself:

Anyone who has spent time here knows my constant refrain is DON'T READ THE COMMENTS SECTION of online articles. They will shit in your heart and suicide your soul.

I offer here a glorious exception to that rule, from the Times comments section on the Charleston massacre. Buckle up.
===

I am Irish. For many years in my native land the Rev. Ian Paisley spouted bigoted hatred about Catholics in Northern Ireland, but then claimed innocence when some militant sectarian group massacred Catholics. Speech was not murder, he said. He would never condone killing, he said. Then he went right back to feeding the attitudes that spawned the killing. Few were fooled.

We should not be fooled in America today.

In this country the "mainstream" right-wing has made an industry of demonizing African-Americans as "thugs" and criminals - just look at the divergence in tone between the recent coverage of Ferguson or Baltimore and the (mostly white) biker massacre in Waco, TX. For decades, white America has been told that black Americans are lazy leeches, dependent on hand-outs funded by your hard-earned taxes to bankroll their immoral lifestyles.

The first black president was greeted by the right not only with diehard obstructionism but a chorus of color-coded abuse ("lazy," "food-stamp president" etc) and questions about his very American-ness: he was "not one of us," a foreigner adhering to a foreign religion who has no right to be president.

The siren song of racial hate relentlessly put out by the "mainstream" right finds echo in the gunshots that rang out in Charleston.

Rightists will, of course, deny the connection, the way Paisley did. But we are not fooled.
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Eddie on June 19, 2015, 09:45:01 AM
I would agree that the right wing shock jocks have plenty of culpability in instilling this kind of racist, classist attitude in the public. That's real.

But there is something more going on here......or perhaps something less, something MISSING in people who commit these heinous acts.

I'm having an argument with my wife, who disagrees strongly with what I wrote above, who insists that these shooters are all sociopaths, and that they're probably born that way...that 25% of us humans are sociopaths. She read that recent book "Confessions of a Sociopath" and is now an expert. She wants gun control. It's simple to her.

I would say that even sociopaths generally understand that acts of this nature have serious negative consequences, and therefore would never go on a killing spree. They might not mind people getting shot or feel anything for the victims, but they wouldn't jeopardize their life and freedom by shooting  a Bible class. Even a sociopath can fear jail or getting the needle.

My own view on the whole sociopath issue, though, is that empathy has to be acquired, that it isn't necessarily something we're born with at all. And that we have so many sociopaths walking around because we don't instill any empathy in our TV raised kids.

But these shooters...we can definitely say that they ARE pretty devoid of empathy, and act like sociopaths. But that's not the whole story either. They are so often juvenile males, filled with hormones. They have no acceptable outlet for their violent aggressive thoughts or desires.

To me they are trying too hard to be something they think they want or need to be. Instead of being an unpopular twerp that nobody likes much, they want to be some kind of bad-ass. They want to be strong and in control. They want to SHOW EVERYBODY, BY GOD, that they are a FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH.

When in the real world they come from they are fairly powerless, friendless, and possibly (in their own mind) worthless.

I just feel strongly that it is wrong to completely disarm people who DON'T take their firearms and act out these bizarre, insane behaviors. I do think there is a strong contingent of power elites who would like to see us even more completely helpless at the hands of the police and military than we already are.

I understand people who are calling out for gun control. It seems like the thing to do, until you think about what it is that's keeping the government from being even more repressive than they are, which is plenty bad already. I don't want to live in a country where the only armed people are police with a 95 IQ, and Chris Kyle types in the military.

I do think we need solutions to random acts of violence by these weirdos. There has to be a better solution than disarming the whole country though.
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on June 19, 2015, 03:17:46 PM
Surly
i disagree with the argument of your source which is essentially not to read the comments section of online articles Except when u find one blaming the right wing With a very weak argument. When msm articles talk of economic recovery and roses the comments tell the real story. Same thing is increasing in stories slanted to social engineering. The ingroup is an echo chamber and out of touch with why their agenda is not universally accepted. Yes some comments may be ignorant and vile but many others explain why moral conservatives throw their lot in with economic conservative against their own economic and environmental interest. It is high time parties who would acknowledge and act on global warming and provide public healthcare owned this problem. This shooter stated his motivation according to witnesses and it was not food stamps or bo, s birth certificate.  Blaming right wing  for this is bogus imo.

Eddie people have been capable of this long before tv and video games,  you have been posting history lessons lately demonstrating that and it goes back further as far as you care to look In human history.  i would not be surprised to learn later he has been listening to white supremacist rhetoric. Aside,  i believe u are right about the hormones. Late male virginity is rising and this guy, ugly and scrawny with a larry curly and mo bowl cut would be lucky to get past hello,  hence his speech about blacks raping his women. Hes not unlike the ucla one last year.
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Golden Oxen on June 19, 2015, 03:46:16 PM
Surly
i disagree with the argument of your source which is essentially not to read the comments section of online articles Except when u find one blaming the right wing With a very weak argument. When msm articles talk of economic recovery and roses the comments tell the real story. Same thing is increasing in stories slanted to social engineering. The ingroup is an echo chamber and out of touch with why their agenda is not universally accepted. Yes some comments may be ignorant and vile but many others explain why moral conservatives throw their lot in with economic conservative against their own economic and environmental interest. It is high time parties who would acknowledge and act on global warming and provide public healthcare owned this problem. This shooter stated his motivation according to witnesses and it was not food stamps or bo, s birth certificate.  Blaming right wing  for this is bogus imo.

Eddie people have been capable of this long before tv and video games,  you have been posting history lessons lately demonstrating that and it goes back further as far as you care to look In human history.  i would not be surprised to learn later he has been listening to white supremacist rhetoric. Aside,  i believe u are right about the hormones. Late male virginity is rising and this guy, ugly and scrawny with a larry curly and mo bowl cut would be lucky to get past hello,  hence his speech about blacks raping his women. Hes not unlike the ucla one last year.

Agreed Uncle, Blaming the right for everything including crazed sicko's is the favorite pass time of the Left, it makes them think of themselves as good and loving.

Not reading the comments section of an article is like blocking your ears after a great concert or stage performance, so you won't have to hear what others thought of it, might conflict with your own view.

Censorship, by not looking or listening to opposing views.        :Benny_monkeysmilies:
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Surly1 on June 19, 2015, 04:00:37 PM
Surly
i disagree with the argument of your source which is essentially not to read the comments section of online articles Except when u find one blaming the right wing With a very weak argument. When msm articles talk of economic recovery and roses the comments tell the real story. Same thing is increasing in stories slanted to social engineering. The ingroup is an echo chamber and out of touch with why their agenda is not universally accepted. Yes some comments may be ignorant and vile but many others explain why moral conservatives throw their lot in with economic conservative against their own economic and environmental interest. It is high time parties who would acknowledge and act on global warming and provide public healthcare owned this problem. This shooter stated his motivation according to witnesses and it was not food stamps or bo, s birth certificate.  Blaming right wing  for this is bogus imo.

Eddie people have been capable of this long before tv and video games,  you have been posting history lessons lately demonstrating that and it goes back further as far as you care to look In human history.  i would not be surprised to learn later he has been listening to white supremacist rhetoric. Aside,  i believe u are right about the hormones. Late male virginity is rising and this guy, ugly and scrawny with a larry curly and mo bowl cut would be lucky to get past hello,  hence his speech about blacks raping his women. Hes not unlike the ucla one last year.

Agreed Uncle, Blaming the right for everything including crazed sicko's is the favorite pass time of the Left, it makes them think of themselves as good and loving.

Not reading the comments section of an article is like blocking your ears after a great concert or stage performance, so you won't have to hear what others thought of it, might conflict with your own view.

Censorship, by not looking or listening to opposing views.        :Benny_monkeysmilies:

Both of you are full of shit.

If you do not think that the corrosive drumbeat of right wing hatred anables tragedies like Charleston, you are utterly tone-deaf.

And can kiss my liberal-sicko ass.

(https://scontent-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10616037_917190578340361_1991089562709799714_n.jpg?oh=aaece6492d31109f8bdfed5592db9c41&oe=55F5E8D4)

To he who has ears, let him hear.
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Golden Oxen on June 19, 2015, 04:16:47 PM
Liberal sicko is certainly an apt description you made of yourself Surly.

Defining and understanding the problem is the first step back to normalcy.

Perhaps it's just guilt that makes you that way, after all, The Democrats were the party of segregation.

The offer to kiss ass is offered up in friendship as well, please, indulge yourself, and smooch as often as you like .


Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on June 19, 2015, 04:32:13 PM
As far as i can tell the left is as much a part of the we want our country back crowd as the right. Restoring standards of living ones focus and restoring rights the others. Police as public servants almost as a rule vote for the less fiscal conservative parties yet we dont see their murder of blacks blamed on partisan politics. That level of entrenched polarisation to call the whole right racist seems to me to be what enables the dismantling of social security , healthcare and environmental protection.
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Surly1 on June 19, 2015, 06:55:19 PM
Liberal sicko is certainly an apt description you made of yourself Surly.

Defining and understanding the problem is the first step back to normalcy.

Perhaps it's just guilt that makes you that way, after all, The Democrats were the party of segregation.

The offer to kiss ass is offered up in friendship as well, please, indulge yourself, and smooch as often as you like .

OK, GO. It's on.
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Golden Oxen on June 19, 2015, 08:56:36 PM
Quote
OK, GO. It's on.

It sure is Surly, have you just noticed? It's been on since I joined the Diner.

You politicize everything there is into your petty little world of left right politics.

Hate, class warfare, political divide are your stock and trade.

And you can keep dodging the facts both I and UB have brought up by posting your goof ball political signs and lefty propaganda all you wish, it won't change them.

The Democrats were the party of segregation, and have morphed into the party of Bankster puppets. Grow up and live with it.
 
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: agelbert on June 19, 2015, 10:32:26 PM
Six women and three men went to Heaven recently because of a demonic massacre perpetrated by a young man in the grips of evil.

Empathy Deficit Disorder is the greatest evil mankind has been saddled with. I am certain that young man has it. I am certain it aided him, above and beyond his racism, in perpetrating the massacre of innocent Christian African Americans methodically, calmly and without remorse. I am certain a drone operator in the USAF cultivates it every bit as much as the top CEOs in the Fortune 500 do.

If that young man can be convinced that he must shed his empathy deficit disorder if he wishes to have any peace whatsoever, then good can come from this great evil.

Those Church people who died are alright now. They no longer suffer in this valley of tears. They are more alive than we are. And they knew the score on planet earth. We don't like it, but that's the way things ARE down here, ESPECIALLY for Christians who live their Faith. From the point of view of the afterlife, the young people that died in the balcony collapse in Berkley may have been the real tragedy.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/6f/e9/b9/6fe9b9eb708da1e3c0e46f5b70215206.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: RE on June 20, 2015, 12:21:15 AM
Quote
OK, GO. It's on.

It sure is Surly, have you just noticed? It's been on since I joined the Diner.

You politicize everything there is into your petty little world of left right politics.

Hate, class warfare, political divide are your stock and trade.

And you can keep dodging the facts both I and UB have brought up by posting your goof ball political signs and lefty propaganda all you wish, it won't change them.

The Democrats were the party of segregation, and have morphed into the party of Bankster puppets. Grow up and live with it.

Lighten Up.

RE
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Golden Oxen on June 20, 2015, 03:42:04 AM
Quote
Lighten Up.

RE

    Good Idea    :exp-grin:
 
                                                   (https://images.angelpub.com/2014/48/27806/bill-clinton-and-george-w-bush.png)
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Surly1 on June 20, 2015, 04:23:26 AM
Quote
Lighten Up.

RE

    Good Idea    :exp-grin:
 
                                                   (https://images.angelpub.com/2014/48/27806/bill-clinton-and-george-w-bush.png)

Right and drooling right. Partners in dismantling the American middle class.
Proving what?

Title: Virgina Killer Suicide Note Says Massacre Is "Race War" Payback for Charleston
Post by: RE on August 26, 2015, 04:38:40 PM
Great.  Now we'll get Copycats.

RE

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-26/virgina-killer-sent-suicide-note-abc-says-massacre-race-war-reaction-charleston-shoo (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-26/virgina-killer-sent-suicide-note-abc-says-massacre-race-war-reaction-charleston-shoo)
Title: An Eye for an Eye is Bad Medicine
Post by: agelbert on August 26, 2015, 05:01:48 PM
Great.  Now we'll get Copycats.

RE

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-26/virgina-killer-sent-suicide-note-abc-says-massacre-race-war-reaction-charleston-shoo (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-26/virgina-killer-sent-suicide-note-abc-says-massacre-race-war-reaction-charleston-shoo)

This eye for an eye thing can do a lot more damage than just leave everyone blind. Besides, the "locked and loaded" crowd that hangs around here is already blind!   

Fasten your seat belt. :(
Title: Re: An Eye for an Eye is Bad Medicine
Post by: RE on August 26, 2015, 05:07:43 PM
Great.  Now we'll get Copycats.

RE

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-26/virgina-killer-sent-suicide-note-abc-says-massacre-race-war-reaction-charleston-shoo (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-26/virgina-killer-sent-suicide-note-abc-says-massacre-race-war-reaction-charleston-shoo)

This eye for an eye thing can do a lot more damage than just leave everyone blind. Besides, the "locked and loaded" crowd that hangs around here is already blind!   

Fasten your seat belt. :(

This one is sure to get the Gun Confiscation crowd active again.

RE
Title: Re: An Eye for an Eye is Bad Medicine
Post by: RE on August 26, 2015, 08:54:55 PM
Great.  Now we'll get Copycats.

RE

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-26/virgina-killer-sent-suicide-note-abc-says-massacre-race-war-reaction-charleston-shoo (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-26/virgina-killer-sent-suicide-note-abc-says-massacre-race-war-reaction-charleston-shoo)

This eye for an eye thing can do a lot more damage than just leave everyone blind. Besides, the "locked and loaded" crowd that hangs around here is already blind!   

Fasten your seat belt. :(

This one is sure to get the Gun Confiscation crowd active again.

RE

No sooner said than done.  ::)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/obama-gun-control_55ddfdffe4b04ae497056c70?kvcommref=mostpopular (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/obama-gun-control_55ddfdffe4b04ae497056c70?kvcommref=mostpopular)

New Law: Only upper class nice white people can own guns!

RE
Title: Re: An Eye for an Eye is Bad Medicine
Post by: jdwheeler42 on August 26, 2015, 09:06:37 PM
This one is sure to get the Gun Confiscation crowd active again.

No sooner said than done.  ::)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/obama-gun-control_55ddfdffe4b04ae497056c70?kvcommref=mostpopular (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/obama-gun-control_55ddfdffe4b04ae497056c70?kvcommref=mostpopular)

New Law: Only upper class nice white people can own guns!
Actually, it's a two-step process:

1. Require gun owners to get insurance.
2. Raise gun insurance rates until only the very rich can afford to own a gun.
Title: Re: An Eye for an Eye is Bad Medicine
Post by: MKing on August 26, 2015, 09:14:32 PM
This one is sure to get the Gun Confiscation crowd active again.

No sooner said than done.  ::)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/obama-gun-control_55ddfdffe4b04ae497056c70?kvcommref=mostpopular (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/obama-gun-control_55ddfdffe4b04ae497056c70?kvcommref=mostpopular)

New Law: Only upper class nice white people can own guns!
Actually, it's a two-step process:

1. Require gun owners to get insurance.
2. Raise gun insurance rates until only the very rich can afford to own a gun.

You forgot a part. Require everyone to own a gun first. Then you can balance yet another means of subjugation through the insurance companies, same as we do now with cars and homes and liability and health care. Punish them through the IRS, and either everyone becomes rich enough to pay the insurance, or you make everyone a criminal, activating another kind of tax and debt servitude.

It is a beautiful setup, and fits right in with the sissification of America.
Title: Re: An Eye for an Eye is Bad Medicine
Post by: RE on August 26, 2015, 09:15:47 PM
This one is sure to get the Gun Confiscation crowd active again.

No sooner said than done.  ::)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/obama-gun-control_55ddfdffe4b04ae497056c70?kvcommref=mostpopular (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/obama-gun-control_55ddfdffe4b04ae497056c70?kvcommref=mostpopular)

New Law: Only upper class nice white people can own guns!
Actually, it's a two-step process:

1. Require gun owners to get insurance.
2. Raise gun insurance rates until only the very rich can afford to own a gun.

A Good Plan, except then the Gun manufacturers and ammo suppliers won't be able to sell so many!

RE
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: luciddreams on August 26, 2015, 11:08:50 PM
just get the head out of the ass pic out of here and I'll happily lament and lambast on these Diner walls.  Keep the head up the ass and I'll regrettably leave. 
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: luciddreams on August 26, 2015, 11:11:20 PM
just have a look at my avatar pic...
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: K-Dog on August 26, 2015, 11:27:16 PM
I like it !
Title: Re: An Eye for an Eye is Bad Medicine
Post by: Surly1 on August 27, 2015, 02:17:53 AM

New Law: Only upper class nice white people can own guns!
Actually, it's a two-step process:

1. Require gun owners to get insurance.
2. Raise gun insurance rates until only the very rich can afford to own a gun.

You forgot a part. Require everyone to own a gun first. Then you can balance yet another means of subjugation through the insurance companies, same as we do now with cars and homes and liability and health care. Punish them through the IRS, and either everyone becomes rich enough to pay the insurance, or you make everyone a criminal, activating another kind of tax and debt servitude.

It is a beautiful setup, and fits right in with the sissification of America.

The NRA is the greatest and most effective lobbying organization in the history of the world. It has managed to make any discussion of access to weapons for even the most seriously deranged in this country a "third rail" issue: so fraught with electoral danger that to even touch it means political electrocution.

Your backhanded slap at the ACA notwithstanding, this notion of the "sissification of America" is telling. The cure for "sissification" being "moar gunz." What is it with you "molon labe" types and your conflation of the ability to instantaneously deal death with manhood? Exactly the step taken by Vester Lee Flanagan in recent months. So we see exactly how that goes, and what results.

His motivations traced well in the article posted elsewhere by K-Dog:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3211529/WDBJ7-reporter-Alison-Parker-Adam-Ward-shot-live-TV-Moneta-gunman.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3211529/WDBJ7-reporter-Alison-Parker-Adam-Ward-shot-live-TV-Moneta-gunman.html)

A new MKing avatar?
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/08/26/21/2BAF02EE00000578-3211529-Reporter_Alison_Parker_24_tries_to_flee_as_about_eight_gunshots_-a-168_1440622440733.jpg)
Title: Re: An Eye for an Eye is Bad Medicine
Post by: Ashvin on August 27, 2015, 04:01:37 AM
This one is sure to get the Gun Confiscation crowd active again.

No sooner said than done.  ::)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/obama-gun-control_55ddfdffe4b04ae497056c70?kvcommref=mostpopular (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/obama-gun-control_55ddfdffe4b04ae497056c70?kvcommref=mostpopular)

New Law: Only upper class nice white people can own guns!
Actually, it's a two-step process:

1. Require gun owners to get insurance.
2. Raise gun insurance rates until only the very rich can afford to own a gun.

I like this idea. Take it a step further and require potential gun owners to go through a licensing process. Maybe make state DMVs responsible for handling this as well, rendering the process as inefficient and frustrating as possible  :emthup:

I don't see how the de-arming of American citizens will be a bad thing. Faced with state militarization and oppression and increased crime, we are more likely to kill each other with our guns than protect ourselves from violent criminals or resist the state.
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Golden Oxen on August 27, 2015, 05:43:40 AM
Quote
I like this idea. Take it a step further and require potential gun owners to go through a licensing process. Maybe make state DMVs responsible for handling this as well, rendering the process as inefficient and frustrating as possible  :emthup:

I don't see how the de-arming of American citizens will be a bad thing. Faced with state militarization and oppression and increased crime, we are more likely to kill each other with our guns than protect ourselves from violent criminals or resist the state.

Not me, this is mere conjecture on your part Ashvin, the turning on ourselves with guns.

While I have never owned a gun, and have no plans to do so; I cherish my freedom and right to do so if my analysis of my situation changes.

I really wish people would not be so ready to take away the rights granted us by our founders because of their personal opinions. As you have noted our oppressors have armed themselves to the hilt and no one talks about taking their weapons  away.

Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: jdwheeler42 on August 27, 2015, 06:55:16 AM
Quote
I like this idea. Take it a step further and require potential gun owners to go through a licensing process. Maybe make state DMVs responsible for handling this as well, rendering the process as inefficient and frustrating as possible  :emthup:

I don't see how the de-arming of American citizens will be a bad thing. Faced with state militarization and oppression and increased crime, we are more likely to kill each other with our guns than protect ourselves from violent criminals or resist the state.

Not me, this is mere conjecture on your part Ashvin, the turning on ourselves with guns.

While I have never owned a gun, and have no plans to do so; I cherish my freedom and right to do so if my analysis of my situation changes.

I really wish people would not be so ready to take away the rights granted us by our founders because of their personal opinions. As you have noted our oppressors have armed themselves to the hilt and no one talks about taking their weapons  away.
That's a really good point.  Personally, I'm in favor of eliminating ALL guns.  If I had magic powers, I would wipe them off the face of the Earth and destroy the knowledge of how to make them.  Let's face it, in the 21st century they are really an antiquated technology, based on a flawed notion that the more deadly a weapon is, the more powerful it is.  But the power of a weapon comes not from its ability to kill its target but from the ability to disable its target.  For example, a dart gun which injected its victim with Amanitas mushroom poison would be almost worthless as a weapon, except for assassination, for while it would be 100% deadly, it would take 24 hours to work, so would be completely useless for any kind of combat.  With non-lethal weapons, "shoot first and ask questions later" actually becomes reasonable.  So does "shoot them all and then sort them out".

But since I can't wish away ALL guns, and we are obviously incapable of stopping criminals from getting guns, and foreign militaries and domestic police aren't going to give up their guns, I have no interest in disarming law-abiding citizens.

But I do have one bone to pick with you, GO.  Those rights weren't granted to us by our founders, for what was granted can be taken away.  What our founders did is recognize that we have inalienable rights given by God.
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: RE on August 27, 2015, 07:18:30 AM
You can't put the Gun Genie back in the bottle.

The only solution here is EVERYBODY should be Packing Heat.

(https://newsonia.com/media/upload/images/2013/05/05/LrgSBkXEYBuVpnV4j2MEun50nPRaBI0v_598x414.jpg)

RE
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: K-Dog on August 27, 2015, 07:33:40 AM

I really wish people would not be so ready to take away the rights granted us by our founders because of their personal opinions. As you have noted our oppressors have armed themselves to the hilt and no one talks about taking their weapons  away.


I have to echo J D on this.  That's a really good point.


Every Barney Fife police department across the land is getting surplus military hardware.  They each have enough fire-power to conquer a small country now.  It is not lone wolf crazies we really have to worry about.  Lone wolf crazies are not going to take away your freedom.  Chances of getting in a car wreck are higher than being popped by one of them.  The people charged with finding the lone wolf crazies and patrolling blogland are the ones who will take away your freedom.  If America were suddenly made gun-less the only blogging Doomstead Diners will be doing is exchanging notes in a FEMA camp.  TPTB don't like us, we are not rainbows and pony enough for them.  We piss on the everything is fine all the system needs to do is get back on its feet  narrative the TPTB want to propagate.

Better we demand everyone with heat has to belong to a militia which has to meet at least once a month.  Let militia leaders decide who should pack heat and who should not.  If they kick you out  then you can’t join another militia for six months and all your guns go into storage till you do. 

I'm just pulling this idea out of my ass but think about it.  None of the recent crazies we have seen on the news would have been able to pack heat because they would have been drummed out of their militia for not being able to get along with people.
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on August 27, 2015, 07:55:18 AM
sure k dog,  identify and expel the kind of people who shoot u when they cant get along with u AFTER u arm them.
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on August 27, 2015, 08:17:08 AM
You can't put the Gun Genie back in the bottle.

The only solution here is EVERYBODY should be Packing Heat.

(https://newsonia.com/media/upload/images/2013/05/05/LrgSBkXEYBuVpnV4j2MEun50nPRaBI0v_598x414.jpg)

RE

the girl in the middle must be the one who killed her range instructor in arizona. This would happen because even for a grown man the shells ejecting out the side pushes the sub from left to right. instructor would have been behind her and she got spun right around. Really responsible.
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Ashvin on August 27, 2015, 08:40:13 AM
Quote
I like this idea. Take it a step further and require potential gun owners to go through a licensing process. Maybe make state DMVs responsible for handling this as well, rendering the process as inefficient and frustrating as possible  :emthup:

I don't see how the de-arming of American citizens will be a bad thing. Faced with state militarization and oppression and increased crime, we are more likely to kill each other with our guns than protect ourselves from violent criminals or resist the state.

Not me, this is mere conjecture on your part Ashvin, the turning on ourselves with guns.

While I have never owned a gun, and have no plans to do so; I cherish my freedom and right to do so if my analysis of my situation changes.

I really wish people would not be so ready to take away the rights granted us by our founders because of their personal opinions. As you have noted our oppressors have armed themselves to the hilt and no one talks about taking their weapons  away.
That's a really good point.  Personally, I'm in favor of eliminating ALL guns.  If I had magic powers, I would wipe them off the face of the Earth and destroy the knowledge of how to make them.  Let's face it, in the 21st century they are really an antiquated technology, based on a flawed notion that the more deadly a weapon is, the more powerful it is.  But the power of a weapon comes not from its ability to kill its target but from the ability to disable its target.  For example, a dart gun which injected its victim with Amanitas mushroom poison would be almost worthless as a weapon, except for assassination, for while it would be 100% deadly, it would take 24 hours to work, so would be completely useless for any kind of combat.  With non-lethal weapons, "shoot first and ask questions later" actually becomes reasonable.  So does "shoot them all and then sort them out".

But since I can't wish away ALL guns, and we are obviously incapable of stopping criminals from getting guns, and foreign militaries and domestic police aren't going to give up their guns, I have no interest in disarming law-abiding citizens.

But I do have one bone to pick with you, GO.  Those rights weren't granted to us by our founders, for what was granted can be taken away.  What our founders did is recognize that we have inalienable rights given by God.

Ideally, the stricter regulations on gun ownership would be accompanied by harsher punishments for violations. As you say, domestic law enforcement is not going to give up their guns, but what exactly do we accomplish by having a bunch of untrained and unaccountable people carrying around guns? How does that level the playing field?

The right to own a gun is NOT an inalienable right, but I'm still in favor of keeping it around... as long as we regulate it like we do the right to own/operate a motor vehicle. I believe the 2nd amendment mostly pertains to idea of local militias being called upon to resist foreign or domestic tyranny when necessary. However, this doesn't apply so much in our age of asymmetric hyper-technological warfare.

IMO, pacifism is the way to go in all cases except when there is immediate danger to you or innocents whom you can help.
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: K-Dog on August 27, 2015, 12:27:56 PM
sure k dog,  identify and expel the kind of people who shoot u when they cant get along with u AFTER u arm them.

Yes, a lot of details need to be worked out.  I also understand returning gun laws to their constitutional roots would be a hard concept for many to understand.  Particularly hard for members of the NRA, most of whom can say second amendment but have no idea what that means.
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: jdwheeler42 on August 27, 2015, 12:33:44 PM
I believe the 2nd amendment mostly pertains to idea of local militias being called upon to resist foreign or domestic tyranny when necessary. However, this doesn't apply so much in our age of asymmetric hyper-technological warfare.
That's why our bombing campaign has been so successful versus ISIS...  :icon_scratch:
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: agelbert on August 27, 2015, 12:40:37 PM
I lived in Puerto Rico for many years. They have some of strictest gun control laws around. They are certainly much stricter than most places in the USA. They do not work. And SPARE ME the racist innuendo about "hot headed Latins" and other assorted pejorative, bigot brained "whites are more rational" puffery.  :emthdown:

Down there, just like up here, the "right to bear arms" does not have jack shit to do with people walking around with hair triggers. The ROOT cause is that most young men are taught to kill people with weapons by the military at a young age.

Down there, like up here, a lot of idiots got imprinted with Iraqi slaughtering Empathy Deficit Disordered fun and games. They came back and joined the police or a gang. The ones that didn't go "admired and supported", not just the troops, but what the troops DID.

It's part of the empire's celebration of being warlike, as if that was a virtue, and not something that ruins people. The worst part is that the people that don't come back "shell shocked" (the original term for what is called something  else now.  ;)), become gun toting monsters. Puerto Rico has always been a huge source of cannon fodder for the US military since Woodrow Wilson got the Jones Act passed in 1916 (for that express purpose  :evil4:). The results of that are clear in the death rate from gun shots down there.
 
The people down there that can't get a gun legally, get one illegally. The average dude has a legal one and an illegal one (you thought the cops are only one that know that trick?  ;)) for ensuring the prowler they offed was "armed" so the home owner can "prove" he was acting in "self defense" and ALSO avoid getting sued by relatives of the deceased. DON'T tell me this does not happen, Ashvin. It did (and still does in deaths due to legally proven negligence in car accident cases), and often, in super gun control land Puerto Rico before prowlers mostly ended up "armed". ;)

The ONLY thing that works is to STOP manufacturing hand guns and ammunition for the police and the people, PERIOD. For those that say "we can't go back", I say, YES WE CAN! For those that say people will turn to rocks, bows and arrows and crossbows, I say, that's FINE WITH ME! MANY needless deaths will be avoided. And the "concealed carry" folks will need some large overcoats!  :icon_mrgreen:

(http://cdn2.content.compendiumblog.com/uploads/user/a4e707ba-e52c-41ea-b5df-e22be41ea981/e57bfadb-4b13-427f-9fc2-b61754fe034d/Image/a1062a58125ed37f21e7801b6410b8e9/cchshooting.JPG)
We can hide better because we can see that big crossbow bulge in your belly!
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: agelbert on August 27, 2015, 12:52:02 PM
Agelbert NOTE: This is a rush job so I didn't format the pictures and graphs. They are VERY good and VERY descriptive, if you know what I mean. See them HERE (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/25/1414925/-The-hate-next-door-Unexpected-faces-of-the-Neo-Confederacy).

Tue Aug 25, 2015 at 09:30 AM EDT.

The hate next door: Unexpected faces of the Neo-Confederacy

by
DocDawg
 
228 Comments

attribution: DocDawg

It is far too easy - and all too human - to make sweeping judgements about people based solely on limited experience and unlimited assumptions. But it is important to work past that genetically encoded human defect for any number of reasons, not the least of which are that: (1) knowledge is power, and (2) stereotyping is not.
Please join me below the fold for an exclusive and detailed look at the surprising demographics of the fast-rising Neo-Confederate movement of North Carolina.
.



There's nothing new about loose talk extolling the virtues of a second secession in America's south. In Texas, of course, such talk is all but an article of the state constitution, and long has been. And in the Deep South - states like Mississippi and Alabama - Confederate flags hanging limp in the withering heat are as much a part of the quotidian scenery as are magnolia blossoms and Moon Pies. But North Carolina is different...or so, at least, many of our sons and daughters would like to think. The last of the states to secede, on May 20th, 1861 (and even then only with great ambivalence), and the first and foremost to raise a sustained, home-grown, and devastating Unionist guerrilla movement behind the lines during the War Between the States (see, for instance, William T. Auman's Civil War in the North Carolina Quaker Belt: The Confederate Campaign Against Peace Agitators, Deserters and Draft Dodgers), North Carolina was then, and is now, on balance more Northern in its sympathies and temperament than even more northerly rebel states such as Virginia. And with our state's top-ten rank in population growth (fueled largely by northern immigrants bearing northern dollars), North Carolina becomes more 'Northern' every day.

Still, old habits die hard, and waves of new immigrants do not overnight sweep away the Old Guard before them. Just how true this is here in the Tar Heel State has been starkly revealed by the paroxysm of Neo-Confederate sympathy suddenly and shockingly witnessed in the wake of the recent Charleston massacre and the ensuing lowering of the rebel battle flag in neighboring South Carolina. The Southern Poverty Law Center's Mapping Hate project has cataloged some 13 Confederate flag rallies across the state since Charleston, with a combined attendance earning the Tar Heel State second place in the U.S. for total attendance (just behind the much more populous Florida). SPLC's attendance estimates are sometimes greatly at odds with those of most reliable local observers, but on the other hand some recent North Carolina rallies are missing from its database.

I recently attended one such 'Southern Heritage' rally, in nearby and highly progressive Hillsborough, NC, and covered it (as well as the locals' resistance to it) in this recent diary. In its aftermath I found myself succumbing to the human urge to stereotype, referring to the assembly's denizens as looking "like they were fresh from a cardiologist's waiting room: unhealthy, obese, aging smokers." I was, thankfully, called on this by one of the opposing Red Strings I had interviewed for that diary, who pointed out that it is important to understand who these people really are, instead of being blinded by misguided images of whom we would like them to be.

Moved by that wisdom, my colleagues and I have just completed an unique demographic analysis of self-identified North Carolina Neo-Confederates, the findings from which I report here exclusively. We were aided in this effort by Facebook, where North Carolina-specific Neo-Confederate pages make it easy to identify the movement's leading sympathizers. Those pages include (but are not limited to):

Alamance County Taking Back Alamance County
Orange County Taking Back Orange County
Guilford County Taking Back Guilford County
Person County Taking Person County Back
Rockingham County North Carolina Taking Back Rockingham County
Caswell County Taking Back Caswell County
North Carolina Taking Back North Carolina
North Carolina Sons of Confederate Veterans
and the page of the North Carolina chapter of the notorious secessionist White Power group, the League of the South

 Using largely automated scripts to simplify the task, we tagged the most explicit post-Charleston Neo-Confederate posts from these and similar pages, extracted approximately 1,000 of the user profiles of readers who liked, shared, and/or commented favorably upon those posts, and cross-indexed those names with North Carolina's remarkably forthcoming downloadable database of registered voters' demographic information and voting behavior (the latter totaling about 24 million records). To minimize the chance of mis-identifying these individuals in that database we employed a three-point test: a Facebook user was associated with an individual voter record only if his name matched that of a registered voter, his Facebook profile's 'lives in' descriptor matched the voter's town or county of residence, and the preceding two criteria matched one and only one voter record in the database. This process produced a list totaling 367 Neo-Confederates plus their detailed demographics: age, gender, race, residence, political affiliation, complete histories of all their voter registration transactions - such as address updates and changes of party affiliation - and voting behaviors (which elections they did or did not vote in and, for "Unaffiliated" voters, which party's ballot they chose in each primary election in which they voted). The results outlined below are based on these data, supplemented with U.S. Census data where indicated.
The analysis presented here supersedes a preliminary effort which I offered in my earlier Hillsborough diary, which was based upon a much more limited sample of only 50 registered voters.

Summary Demographics of North Carolina Neo-Confederate Sympathizers

Race:
 Unsurprisingly, 99.5% of our collection of Neo-Confederates self-identified in voter registration records as being 'White.' The remainder specified 'Other.' None are 'Black.' Compare this with the racial distribution of currently-registered North Carolina voters overall, among whom 71% self-describe as 'White' and 22% as 'Black.'

Gender:
 A decent respect for the presumably more refined sensibilities of women-folk, coupled with casual observation of rally participants, had initially led us to expect that men must surely outnumber women among Neo-Confederate sympathizers (hereafter, NCS) by a wide margin. But nothing could be further from the truth: among our 367 NCS, 56% are men and 44% are women, precisely matching the gender breakdown of white North Carolina voters overall. Neo-Confederate sympathy is a gender-neutral phenomenon in The Tar Heel State.

Party Affiliation:
 While registered Republicans predominate among NCS (50% overall, and 73% of all those who are not 'Unaffiliated"), Democrats nonetheless manage a surprisingly strong showing (18% overall, or 26% of all NCS who are not 'Unaffiliated').

Understanding this perhaps surprising finding requires some historical perspective. In the North, the anti-slavery movement and the Civil War itself were largely championed by the Republican "Party of Lincoln," and the vast majority of Union-appointed Reconstruction officials were Republicans as well, whereas Northern Democrats of that era were inclined to tolerate slavery in the South, and many were sympathetic to the Confederates' motivation, if not their cause. As a result, a legacy of distrust of Republicans and affinity for Democrats (reversed only as late as the Nixon administration, with its Southern Strategy) was long common among vanquished Confederates - a legacy which lives on today in North Carolina's high frequency of DINOs (Democrats in name only), who are Democrats only by virtue of family history, not by political beliefs or voting behavior.

Reinforcing this explanation is our survey's observation that, among registered NCS who claim no party affiliation (32% of all NCS), nearly twice as many vote exclusively Republican ballots in primaries (45%) as do those who vote exclusively Democratic ballots (26%); the remaining 28% have voted a mix of the two parties' ballots over the years.

Still, it is difficult to explain how today's NCS voters with documented Democratic sympathies (those 26% of Unaffiliateds who vote exclusively Democratic primary ballots) can harbor both Democratic and Neo-Confederate sympathies at the same time, without being forced to conclude that the Democratic Party in North Carolina itself still harbors its own fair share of bigots. But, in fairness, the reader should note that these Democratic-voting Unaffiliateds are a very small fraction of our sample (just 4% of all NCS) - the majority of Unaffiliated NCS voters (59%) have never voted any partisan ballot, Republican or Democratic.

In short, Republicans-in-fact plus Republicans-by-sentiment comprise the lion's share - but by no means all - of our NCS sample.

Age Distribution:
 Contrary to what we had hoped (namely, that Neo-Confederate sympathizers, at this 150 year remove from the War, are a dying breed), today's NCS are a remarkably youthful group, as the graph below illustrates.

Age distribution of North Carolina Neo-Confederate sympathizer voters, versus all white North Carolina voters

 
Age distribution of Neo-Confederate sympathizer (NCS) voters (red) versus all white North Carolina voters (grey)
While it is good to bear in mind that our sample of NCS voters was derived from social media - and thus may be somewhat skewed toward its users' overall age distribution - nonetheless a comparison of the NCS age distribution in the figure above with that of Facebook users overall illustrates that the abundance of young NCS voters in our sample cannot be accounted for by the demographics of Facebook users overall. Younger voters (ages 18-32) account for one-third of all NCS in our sample, suggesting a movement whose sympathies are likely to live on for decades to come.
It should perhaps not be surprising that a movement featuring shiny objects, in-your-face rebelliousness, and a style calculated to offend, might well prove attractive to a certain segment of youth. Discouraging, certainly...but not surprising.

Socio-Economic Status:
 Looking out over the clutches of Neo-Confederate sympathizer who actually attend public rallies, one might well be forgiven for arriving at the conclusion the the NCS movement as a whole is comprised primarily of lower-income citizens. Indeed, as the NC-NAACP's Laurel Ashton so eloquently said at an NAACP Historical Accuracy press conference in Hillsborough just days before the flag-waver rally there:

The tragedy is that these very people, those who will drive through the Piedmont waving Confederate flags, converging here in this courtyard, these very people, many of whom are poor and face a system of economic oppression daily, are hurting and sometimes even dying because of the policies passed by our elected officials. It is these poor white southerners who are so often without healthcare, who are underpaid and need a raise in the minimum wage, who have children struggling in under-resourced public schools, who live alongside black folks in rural communities where they can’t drink the water because of lack of environmental protections. It is these poor white folks who need access to affordable women’s healthcare, who need an end to the death penalty, who need emergency unemployment and earned income tax credits.
Yet, here again, the data indicate that the stereotype is an over-simplification of the reality. For, as the graph below illustrates, while activist flag-wavers with nothing better to do of an afternoon may indeed be primarily low-income folks (a question which our data cannot speak to), clearly the greater Neo-Confederate sympathizer movement is primarily a middle-class phenomenon.
Percent of residents below the poverty level (U.S. census data) in Neo-Confederate sympathizers' zip codes, versus all white North Carolina voters
Percent of residents below the poverty level in Neo-Confederate sympathizers' zip codes (red), versus all white North Carolina voters (grey). Poverty data from the 2013 American Community Survey of the U.S. Census Bureau.
Judging by U.S. Census data regarding the poverty levels in the zip codes in which they reside, NCS voters are remarkably middle-class - indeed, more so than North Carolina white voters overall.
Political Engagement:
 In America, clouds of brightly colored fluttering scraps of cloth may attract outsized attention, but they do not win battles; votes do. And here we find some good news, for - as the graph below illustrates - NCS voters are comparatively disengaged when it comes to actually turning out to vote.

Registered voter turnout at the polls for the 2000 through 2014 elections, comparing Neo-Confederate sympathizers (red) and all white North Carolina voters (grey)
Registered voter turnout at the polls for the 2000 through 2014 elections, comparing Neo-Confederate sympathizers (red) and all white North Carolina voters (grey)
North Carolina's NCS voters routinely post election turnout figures which are 10 to 20 percentage points below those of all white voters, reflecting their relatively low degree of meaningful political engagement. It is also worth noting that the two election years which witnessed their highest turnouts - 2008 and 2012 - are the two years in which an African American stood for the office of president, in keeping with the notion that racial politics can be a motivating factor for NCS voters.
Our survey's methods do not enable us to calculate the percentage of all NCS commenters who are registered to vote, but our distinct impression has been that it is likely to be much lower than 50%.

Geographical Distribution:
 As the map below illustrates, NCS voters in our sample are largely concentrated in three hot-spots throughout North Carolina. The largest of these, by far, is the old "Quaker Belt" region of the north-central Piedmont - which, ironically, William Ausman's book (cited at the beginning of this diary) identifies as the nexus of the anti-Confederate unionist guerrilla movement of the Civil War era. Equally unionist-dominated back then was another of the state's current NCS hot-spots, in the extreme west's Blue Ridge Mountain region (specifically, just south of Asheville). As Ausman discusses at length, both of these regions of North Carolina had extremely low numbers of persons held in slavery during the antebellum period (because the regions' poor soils made large plantations unfeasible), rendering these the homes of poor subsistence farmers and 'mechanics,' who neither needed nor could afford slaves and, as a result, had no dog in the fight that was the Civil War, and no sympathy for it.

Our NCS voters reside in at least 55 of North Carolina's 100 counties. The top ten - those which are home to 2% or more of the NCS in our survey - include Alamance (26%), Orange (13%), Henderson (8%), Rockingham (6%), Gaston (4%), Guilford (4%), Person (3%), Cleveland (3%), Wake (3%) and Granville (2%).


Geographic distribution of North Carolina Neo-Confederate sympathizers, from voter registration home address data

 
Geographic distribution of North Carolina Neo-Confederate sympathizers in our sample, from voter registration home address data
Connections to Racist/Secessionist Groups:
 Throughout the research underlying this report we noted repeated connections between some of the most active NCS commenters and old-school racist/secessionist organizations including the League of the South and the Sons of Confederate Veterans. Evidence of such links includes:
Eight very active NCS commenters on Facebook "Taking Back" pages are also members of the restricted North Carolina League of the South (LOS) Facebook page (including the individual who, according to numerous press accounts, was the organizer of the single largest North Carolina rally to date)
Comments posted on "Taking Back" pages by LOS's North Carolina chapter chairman, Harold Crews, eagerly inquiring about turnout numbers shortly following recent rallies. Crews has also blogged on the NC-LOS web site regarding his participation in NCS rallies featuring "a good number of League members and supporters"
Facebook profile and avatar photos, belonging to dozens of NCS commenters, which incorporate the "Black Cross" flag of the LOS - including this avatar for the organizer of one of the state's largest rallies to date, symbolizing the melding of the Confederate battle flag and the LOS Black Cross:


Regarding the symbolism of its Black Cross flag, LOS states:
The white field stands for our Folk and for purity. The black cross stands for no surrender.
Sentiments:
 Neo-Confederate sympathizers seldom miss an opportunity to repeat their "heritage, not hate!" mantra - a tag-line so smart that it is tempting to suspect the hand of a professional wordsmith in its creation. But the more unguarded comments of North Carolina NCS Facebook users belie that assurance of reverence for history free of racial hatred:
Truly sad. But, when you crawl out of that blighted, cesspool portion of society who works for nothing and demands that everything be handed to them....senseless destruction of other people's property means nothing to you.

So when will they start taking down all the MLK statutes and dig him up and move him???

And when they remove the MLK statues they need to remove his name from the public roads all buildings and HISTORY books

To many ass kissing spineless people bowing down to the naacp and other racist groups and letting them destroy Americas history. Im getting more and more closer to not being an american flag on the front of my house. Its getting ready to be just my confederate nc flag and southern cross. I guess i will just consider myself a southern confederate instead of an american. If American politicians want to hate on my history and what i believe in then i will hate on them and just follow what i believe in.

All lives matter and time has come for the Blacks to stop their racist ways.

Maybe a black person had a white do it. The spelling is really good. Very few can write that well if they are the caliber to do that at all. Just saying

stand guard and shoot if anyone comes close with paint in hand

Shoot all them basterds

The real meaning of NAACP is National Association for the Advancement of Crazy Peopl

I hope people plan on bringing firearms for protection.

they are the ones committing the crimes, not us, and they need punished for it

I don't see any of them protesting in front of abortion clinics or in gang banger neighborhoods where most black lives are lost.

Just talk about rioting. That's what they threaten (or do) to get what they want.

Put the Haters and Yankees in Libby Prison, Ric. Virginia

sooo tired of this B.S. Let's just fight this war over again.. I got everything i need..

they keep ordering the murder of white ppl & have been successful in a lot of cases & act as tho black ppl do not commit mass murders
Welcome to the Neo-Confederates' dystopian vision of a new New South - the same as the Old South: a heritage of hate. These are folks some of whom you may even know: pest control technicians, used car salesmen, cashiers at Walmart, mechanics, truck drivers, stay-at-home mommies, beauticians, burger-flippers, community college students, office workers, bikers, veterans, the unemployed, retired folks and (Jesus wept) even little children. They are mostly young to middle-aged. They are white. They are men and women alike, mostly (but not exclusively) Republicans. They are largely middle class. They are white supremacist secessionists. They are angry and armed and politically ineffectual. And, ironically, many of their 'Confederate' ancestors were actually Unionists at heart.
They are the faces of the Neo-Confederacy.

Questions or comments? Reach me at docdawg666 [at] gmail [dot] com

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/25/1414925/-The-hate-next-door-Unexpected-faces-of-the-Neo-Confederacy (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/25/1414925/-The-hate-next-door-Unexpected-faces-of-the-Neo-Confederacy)
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Surly1 on August 27, 2015, 01:42:49 PM
Quote from: AG
The hate next door: Unexpected faces of the Neo-Confederacy

This is what you get for not outlawing displays of the Confederate banners, and not running traitors and seditionists to earth and putting them in prison until time for proper hangin'.

These people have spend a hundred years rewriting history, now they plan to relitigate succession. I'm sure that they think that "reclaiming their heritage" means keeping the proceeds from 150 years of federal tax proceeds, military bases and the like.

We'll be dealing with this until President Trump tries some of them for treason.
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on August 27, 2015, 02:23:21 PM
Quote from: AG
The hate next door: Unexpected faces of the Neo-Confederacy

This is what you get for not outlawing displays of the Confederate banners, and not running traitors and seditionists to earth and putting them in prison until time for proper hangin'.

These people have spend a hundred years rewriting history, now they plan to relitigate succession. I'm sure that they think that "reclaiming their heritage" means keeping the proceeds from 150 years of federal tax proceeds, military bases and the like.

We'll be dealing with this until President Trump tries some of them for treason.

wanting to hang them is hate.
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Ashvin on August 27, 2015, 02:59:18 PM
I believe the 2nd amendment mostly pertains to idea of local militias being called upon to resist foreign or domestic tyranny when necessary. However, this doesn't apply so much in our age of asymmetric hyper-technological warfare.
That's why our bombing campaign has been so successful versus ISIS...  :icon_scratch:

I don't see much of a comparison there. Even the most hardcore gun-toting survivalists here don't seem to have an ideological foundation powerful enough to motivate suicide attacks or the use of women, children, relatives, etc. as human shields. And then there is the fact that the feds and what state law enforcement they can enlist are essentially established and ready to roll domestically, as opposed to MENA.
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Ashvin on August 27, 2015, 03:06:41 PM
The people down there that can't get a gun legally, get one illegally. The average dude has a legal one and an illegal one (you thought the cops are only one that know that trick?  ;)) for ensuring the prowler they offed was "armed" so the home owner can "prove" he was acting in "self defense" and ALSO avoid getting sued by relatives of the deceased. DON'T tell me this does not happen, Ashvin. It did (and still does in deaths due to legally proven negligence in car accident cases), and often, in super gun control land Puerto Rico before prowlers mostly ended up "armed". ;)

The ONLY thing that works is to STOP manufacturing hand guns and ammunition for the police and the people, PERIOD. For those that say "we can't go back", I say, YES WE CAN! For those that say people will turn to rocks, bows and arrows and crossbows, I say, that's FINE WITH ME! MANY needless deaths will be avoided. And the "concealed carry" folks will need some large overcoats!  :icon_mrgreen:

I'm sure it did happen, especially among law enforcement. But I don't see how stricter gun control would make it more likely to happen...?

I agree with your other solution though. Ideally there could be an outright ban on the manufacture, sale and possession of guns period, to or by anyone. Treat it like an illegal drug. Absent this ideal, though, I still like the idea of stricter gun control.
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: agelbert on August 27, 2015, 03:59:48 PM
The people down there that can't get a gun legally, get one illegally. The average dude has a legal one and an illegal one (you thought the cops are only one that know that trick?  ;)) for ensuring the prowler they offed was "armed" so the home owner can "prove" he was acting in "self defense" and ALSO avoid getting sued by relatives of the deceased. DON'T tell me this does not happen, Ashvin. It did (and still does in deaths due to legally proven negligence in car accident cases), and often, in super gun control land Puerto Rico before prowlers mostly ended up "armed". ;)

The ONLY thing that works is to STOP manufacturing hand guns and ammunition for the police and the people, PERIOD. For those that say "we can't go back", I say, YES WE CAN! For those that say people will turn to rocks, bows and arrows and crossbows, I say, that's FINE WITH ME! MANY needless deaths will be avoided. And the "concealed carry" folks will need some large overcoats!  :icon_mrgreen:

I'm sure it did happen, especially among law enforcement. But I don't see how stricter gun control would make it more likely to happen...?

I agree with your other solution though. Ideally there could be an outright ban on the manufacture, sale and possession of guns period, to or by anyone. Treat it like an illegal drug. Absent this ideal, though, I still like the idea of stricter gun control.

Well, the point is that super strict laws don't work. I was a gun toting Republican way back. I had three hand guns. I had a 38 caliber stainless steel Smith and Wesson model 67 combat masterpiece, an illegal Indian Arms stainless steel automatic (The American version of the the Walther PPK) and a High Standard Trophy 22 caliber target pistol.

Gun laws are so strict that, if you were going to your local gun club to practice shooting things and have a few drinks at the bar afterwards (great combination, eh?  :evil4:), you could be arrested on a felony (NOT a misdemeanor) charge if you didn't have your guns in the TRUNK and UNLOADED as well! And you could not buy ammo unless you had a gun owner permit. EACH additional gun you bought HAD TO BE registered with the police. EACH sale of any of your guns had to be registered as well. You could not sell a gun to an unlicensed person (of course people did that - they would just report that someone had broken into the home and stolen their  guns!  ;)). Breaking the gun laws was/is a felony in any of the above cases I mentioned.

Unless you had a carry permit ( I never did get one - they wouldn't even give you one unless you could prove you ran a business and had to carry money from that business around at certain times - like I said, STRICT gun control laws!), you could not go from your home to the gun club with the gun(s) you were licensed to have loaded and/or next to you unless you were issued a one time permit for that trip each and every time you planned to go from point A to point B with guns. But there is more! When you sold your house and moved, you had to obtain the police permit to move your guns from your old house to your new house on a one time basis on a scheduled date!

Also, you could NOT own more that one gun UNLESS you had a shooting club membership.   

Strict laws against hand guns just don't work. Bows and arrows, sling shots and crossbows are a better deal.

(https://dqk61zi4rus6n.cloudfront.net/p__DSC4300_web%20optimized.jpg)
Yup, I had one of these too! And mine had a site on it! With some practice, a well placed ball bearing launched by the above can kill a human at 15 to 20 yards easily. But the target will normally see you setting up your shot unless you are concealed. Sling shots are also rather effective at doing a number on a glass window from up to 30 yards with great accuracy. :evil4:  The point is that guns are just too easy to use and way too lethal.


 
Title: Re: An Eye for an Eye is Bad Medicine
Post by: MKing on August 27, 2015, 04:05:39 PM
The NRA is the greatest and most effective lobbying organization in the history of the world. It has managed to make any discussion of access to weapons for even the most seriously deranged in this country a "third rail" issue: so fraught with electoral danger that to even touch it means political electrocution.

The 1st Amendment to the Constitution has ever church and religious whack-a-doodle in the country operating in its defense.

Fortunate indeed that the 2nd amendment to the Constitution has its own worthy defenders.

Let each of the others get their own.
Title: Re: An Eye for an Eye is Bad Medicine
Post by: MKing on August 27, 2015, 04:15:56 PM
I like this idea. Take it a step further and require potential gun owners to go through a licensing process.

Are you unfamiliar with the one that has been going on for half a century now, or have you never purchased a new firearm and not been subjected to the current licensing process?

Quote from: Ashwin
Maybe make state DMVs responsible for handling this as well, rendering the process as inefficient and frustrating as possible  :emthup:

Currently active. I've actually been refused before, having my name confused with some miscreant or another who fails to pass the current licensing process. It required writing a letter, providing proof of outstanding citizenship, etc etc, to get it cleared up, and the firearms flowing again. Quite a pain, but better safe than sorry.

Quote from: Ashvin
I don't see how the de-arming of American citizens will be a bad thing. Faced with state militarization and oppression and increased crime, we are more likely to kill each other with our guns than protect ourselves from violent criminals or resist the state.

Nah. State militarization doesn't mean anything unless you are participating in a good ol' fashioned fun riot involving folks throwing bricks or shooting at the cops, otherwise sure, if crime does increase, we can use them to stop hooligans from doing hooligan things.

Hopefully we will use our firearms logically and thoughtfully, some won't, but those that do will probably make surviving buddies of those who try and knock over the wrong household much more hesitant in their raping and murdering. And this, obviously, is a good thing!
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: MKing on August 27, 2015, 04:21:16 PM

But I do have one bone to pick with you, GO.  Those rights weren't granted to us by our founders, for what was granted can be taken away.  What our founders did is recognize that we have inalienable rights given by God.

Or the aliens who provided our DNA ala Prometheus!! In either case, the 2nd amendment was designed to be there for us, should folks not understand Gods point.
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Eddie on August 27, 2015, 04:23:03 PM
When it's said and done, I just prefer to own arms,just in case I might need them.  They are only good for one thing though, and that's killing something or somebody. Obviously' owning a gun and using a gun is something that requires really good judgment, which seems to be in ever shorter supply.  Meanwhile, guns are cranked out by the millions,and anybody who wants one can get one.

We have a real problem with stupid people killing innocent people with guns. I wish there were a test for good judgment that one had to pass to own a gun, but we don't seem to be able to do that in any way that can't be rigged.

I expect more and more of these racially driven shootings. But it's more of an excuse for powerless,angry assholes to use to justify their inability to control their own violent emotional outbursts. It's not so much to do with race as it does being cornered like rats in a world with poor prospects and no frontiers.

Too many people. 
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: MKing on August 27, 2015, 04:23:30 PM
the girl in the middle must be the one who killed her range instructor in arizona. This would happen because even for a grown man the shells ejecting out the side pushes the sub from left to right. instructor would have been behind her and she got spun right around. Really responsible.

Fortunate indeed that he was punished appropriately then, don't you think UB?
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Ashvin on August 27, 2015, 04:25:41 PM
Well, the point is that super strict laws don't work. I was a gun toting Republican way back. I had three hand guns. I had a 38 caliber stainless steel Smith and Wesson model 67 combat masterpiece, an illegal Indian Arms stainless steel automatic (The American version of the the Walther PPK) and a High Standard Trophy 22 caliber target pistol.

Gun laws are so strict that, if you were going to your local gun club to practice shooting things and have a few drinks at the bar afterwards (great combination, eh?  :evil4:), you could be arrested on a felony (NOT a misdemeanor) charge if you didn't have your guns in the TRUNK and UNLOADED as well! And you could not buy ammo unless you had a gun owner permit. EACH additional gun you bought HAD TO BE registered with the police. EACH sale of any of your guns had to be registered as well. You could not sell a gun to an unlicensed person (of course people did that - they would just report that someone had broken into the home and stolen their  guns!  ;)). Breaking the gun laws was/is a felony in any of the above cases I mentioned.

Unless you had a carry permit ( I never did get one - they wouldn't even give you one unless you could prove you ran a business and had to carry money from that business around at certain times - like I said, STRICT gun control laws!), you could not go from your home to the gun club with the gun(s) you were licensed to have loaded and/or next to you unless you were issued a one time permit for that trip each and every time you planned to go from point A to point B with guns. But there is more! When you sold your house and moved, you had to obtain the police permit to move your guns from your old house to your new house on a one time basis on a scheduled date!

Also, you could NOT own more that one gun UNLESS you had a shooting club membership.   

Strict laws against hand guns just don't work. Bows and arrows, sling shots and crossbows are a better deal.

I get what you're saying, but can we know what would have happened in the counter-factual scenario in which these restrictions didn't exist? Perhaps there would have been even more wanton gun violence. I think the restrictions need to deincentivize gun manufacturing, sales and/or ownership in the first place, and a general licensing process (for all guns, not just concealed) and mandatory insurance would at least work towards that.
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: MKing on August 27, 2015, 04:26:59 PM
Ideally, the stricter regulations on gun ownership would be accompanied by harsher punishments for violations.

Absolutely, makes perfect sense as a place to start towards JDs dream. Not sure I like the historical precedent on JDs dream, but hey, those of ignore history don't get to complain when it repeats itself.

(http://www.dcclothesline.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/gun-conrol-dictator.jpg)
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on August 27, 2015, 04:28:19 PM
Agb i have lived in a state with stricter laws than u described. 2000$ fine for each empty shell u have if u have no license. No sale of shells without one. Only a farmer with a proven pest problem can keep one at home in a safe bolted to the wall inspected anually. Anyone else leaves everyrhing at the range. Only police and armoured guards can carry,  and they never act like u might also. Also if u have a beef with anyone for any readon they need to be more strong or skilled than you if they want to hurt you. Unless they are a biker or drug dealer u almost never hear of anyone getting killed that way and i lived there 13 years.
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Eddie on August 27, 2015, 04:45:14 PM
Repressive government control is one way to control gun violence. it works, at substantial cost. Not to make a big deal about it, but I have no intention of cooperating with any government plans to disarm citizens.  If it comes down to that, I will strongly consider relocating to some place so far in the boonies that whatever laws there are can be ignored without serious consequences.
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: agelbert on August 27, 2015, 04:52:57 PM
Well, the point is that super strict laws don't work. I was a gun toting Republican way back. I had three hand guns. I had a 38 caliber stainless steel Smith and Wesson model 67 combat masterpiece, an illegal Indian Arms stainless steel automatic (The American version of the the Walther PPK) and a High Standard Trophy 22 caliber target pistol.

Gun laws are so strict that, if you were going to your local gun club to practice shooting things and have a few drinks at the bar afterwards (great combination, eh?  :evil4:), you could be arrested on a felony (NOT a misdemeanor) charge if you didn't have your guns in the TRUNK and UNLOADED as well! And you could not buy ammo unless you had a gun owner permit. EACH additional gun you bought HAD TO BE registered with the police. EACH sale of any of your guns had to be registered as well. You could not sell a gun to an unlicensed person (of course people did that - they would just report that someone had broken into the home and stolen their  guns!  ;)). Breaking the gun laws was/is a felony in any of the above cases I mentioned.

Unless you had a carry permit ( I never did get one - they wouldn't even give you one unless you could prove you ran a business and had to carry money from that business around at certain times - like I said, STRICT gun control laws!), you could not go from your home to the gun club with the gun(s) you were licensed to have loaded and/or next to you unless you were issued a one time permit for that trip each and every time you planned to go from point A to point B with guns. But there is more! When you sold your house and moved, you had to obtain the police permit to move your guns from your old house to your new house on a one time basis on a scheduled date!

Also, you could NOT own more that one gun UNLESS you had a shooting club membership.   

Strict laws against hand guns just don't work. Bows and arrows, sling shots and crossbows are a better deal.

I get what you're saying, but can we know what would have happened in the counter-factual scenario in which these restrictions didn't exist? Perhaps there would have been even more wanton gun violence. I think the restrictions need to deincentivize gun manufacturing, sales and/or ownership in the first place, and a general licensing process (for all guns, not just concealed) and mandatory insurance would at least work towards that.

The counter-factual scenario in which these restrictions didn't exist, at least according to statistics, points to less gun violence with less laws. That's the NRA line. The problem with that line is that it excludes root causes for violence in human societies. That is a rather large and difficult subject matter, as you know. But it is reasonable to assume that the average human will, for various reasons, is more prone to kill another human he considers a threat or hates because of skin color or wants tor get revenge (and so on) if he has a more lethal weapon in his hands. If we are carrying sling shots, I just don't think there will be as many deaths from human interactions.

Most people cannot manufacture hand guns or ammunition. So, I propose stopping the manufacture of them.

But, as I am seeing on this thread from some other posters, the rationalizations are flowing fast and furious for claiming the problem is not the guns.  ;)

 
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: jdwheeler42 on August 27, 2015, 04:55:56 PM
Absolutely, makes perfect sense as a place to start towards JDs dream. Not sure I like the historical precedent on JDs dream, but hey, those of ignore history don't get to complain when it repeats itself.

(http://www.dcclothesline.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/gun-conrol-dictator.jpg)
None of those qualify as precedents for my dream, which would have left all of the government forces without guns also.  It's a lot harder to kill millions of people without using guns.  Of course, I'd want to get rid of bombs, too.
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Eddie on August 27, 2015, 05:01:25 PM
I make no attempt to rationalize my position. I just refuse to be disarmed.  I don't consider it a God-given right. Just a choice.

TPTB are considering every excuse to outlaw ammunition, if not firearms themselves. They have had some success there already.

I predict greater repression. It is the logical expectation.
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: agelbert on August 27, 2015, 05:23:44 PM
When it's said and done, I just prefer to own arms, just in case I might need them.  They are only good for one thing though, and that's killing something or somebody. Obviously' owning a gun and using a gun is something that requires really good judgment, which seems to be in ever shorter supply.  Meanwhile, guns are cranked out by the millions, and anybody who wants one can get one.

We have a real problem with stupid people killing innocent people with guns. I wish there were a test for good judgment that one had to pass to own a gun, but we don't seem to be able to do that in any way that can't be rigged.

I expect more and more of these racially driven shootings. But it's more of an excuse for powerless, angry assholes to use to justify their inability to control their own violent emotional outbursts. It's not so much to do with race as it does being cornered like rats in a world with poor prospects and no frontiers.

Too many people. 

Eddie,
Race has nothing to do with it in places where everybody is more or less the same color (see Puerto Rico). Yet claiming the violence is because people are "Stupid" is incorrect. Humans are emotional creatures. Your claim to being able to blow somebody away in self defense is as "valid" for you as for anyone else out there. Keeping guns out of human hands is the only way deaths from angry confrontations or revengeful vendettas will be reduced.

In the USA, RACE has EVERYTHING to do with it, no matter how much you want to dance around this by claiming it is an issue of intelligence level.

LOOK at these comments, Eddie!
I have read similar comments HERE from some rather intelligent people. Don't tell me you have to be "stupid" to agree with them. All you have to be is BIGOTED! And lots of BIGOTS have college degrees and make a lot of money, pal!

Quote
Neo-Confederate sympathizers seldom miss an opportunity to repeat their "heritage, not hate!" mantra - a tag-line so smart that it is tempting to suspect the hand of a professional wordsmith in its creation.

But the more unguarded comments of North Carolina NCS Facebook users belie that assurance of reverence for history free of racial hatred:

Truly sad. But, when you crawl out of that blighted, cesspool portion of society who works for nothing and demands that everything be handed to them....senseless destruction of other people's property means nothing to you.

So when will they start taking down all the MLK statutes and dig him up and move him???

And when they remove the MLK statues they need to remove his name from the public roads all buildings and HISTORY books

To many ass kissing spineless people bowing down to the naacp and other racist groups and letting them destroy Americas history. Im getting more and more closer to not being an american flag on the front of my house. Its getting ready to be just my confederate nc flag and southern cross. I guess i will just consider myself a southern confederate instead of an american. If American politicians want to hate on my history and what i believe in then i will hate on them and just follow what i believe in.

All lives matter and time has come for the Blacks to stop their racist ways.

Maybe a black person had a white do it. The spelling is really good. Very few can write that well if they are the caliber to do that at all. Just saying

stand guard and shoot if anyone comes close with paint in hand

Shoot all them basterds

The real meaning of NAACP is National Association for the Advancement of Crazy Peopl

I hope people plan on bringing firearms for protection.

they are the ones committing the crimes, not us, and they need punished for it

I don't see any of them protesting in front of abortion clinics or in gang banger neighborhoods where most black lives are lost.

Just talk about rioting. That's what they threaten (or do) to get what they want.

Put the Haters and Yankees in Libby Prison, Ric. Virginia

sooo tired of this B.S. Let's just fight this war over again.. I got everything i need..

they keep ordering the murder of white ppl & have been successful in a lot of cases & act as tho black ppl do not commit mass murders (http://www.pic4ever.com/images/www_MyEmoticons_com__burp.gif)
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/25/1414925/-The-hate-next-door-Unexpected-faces-of-the-Neo-Confederacy (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/25/1414925/-The-hate-next-door-Unexpected-faces-of-the-Neo-Confederacy)

And then UB has the BRASS BALLS to claim putting people like that in prison is "hate".

And then UB, because I left out a bunch DETAILS on the STRICT gun control laws in Puerto Rico, tries to make a case for what "works" and what "doesn't work" with his personal experiences and a list of fines that allegedly equal "stricter" gun control laws.  ::)

Whatever...
 

Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: agelbert on August 27, 2015, 06:08:37 PM
I make no attempt to rationalize my position. I just refuse to be disarmed.  I don't consider it a God-given right. Just a choice.

TPTB are considering every excuse to outlaw ammunition, if not firearms themselves. They have had some success there already.

I predict greater repression. It is the logical expectation.


You are a smart man. Me too. Your pea shooters don't stand a chance against TPTB the instant they decide to take them away from you.

Back when I was taking military tactics at West Point, we had to learn to do all kinds of neat stuff with weapons. We had to disassemble and assemble 45 caliber automatics in a certain number of seconds. But the real bear was loading, firing and reloading a continental Army musket from the Revolutionary War. They had bayonets (LONG BAYONETS) on them because that durn thing was used way more often than not.

(http://ncpedia.org/sites/default/files/muskets.jpg)

It was quite a dance to get the wick ready (and it had to be kept DRY along with the powder during combat too!), jam the powder and then a cloth and then a round ball and then aim and then hope your flint hadn't crapped out and then shoot. At that point, it was rinse and repeat unless the red coat was charging you close by. Some people got really good at it and could reload in less than 30 seconds. Most could not.

I bring all this irrelevant babble to the fore because THAT weapon is the basis of all the rhetoric in the Second Amendment. The RIGHT to shoot ONCE  IF your powder, wick and flint are dry within a minute or so was the mindset of the folks who wrote that piece of paper.

But things have changed. I can take an AR-15 and file something on it and turn it into a machine gun. The Army knows all this. And yet they have not moved against the dudes out there that have enough clips and "hunting" rifles/machine guns to start a little war. The reason is that they are ALL pea shooters compared with what TPTB can bring to bear.

Yes, I know you aren't claiming you own weapons because of this or that Constitutional rhetoric. But you ARE claiming that you are somehow more capable of deciding when to use lethal force than most of the rest of the population. Yes, I know you don't give a rat's patutty if that doesn't sit well with some folks.

But your claim that being locked and loaded will keep TPTB at bay is wishful thinking. TPTB won the arms race with the population over a century ago.

You can kill your neighbor (by accident or because of strife) or some local thief with your hardware, Eddie. That's it.
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread - Helter Skelter
Post by: Golden Oxen on August 27, 2015, 06:13:56 PM
Manson had been predicting racial war for some time before he used the term Helter Skelter. His first use of the term was at a gathering of the Family on New Year's Eve 1968. This took place at the Family's base at Myers Ranch, near California's Death Valley.


                                              (http://www.cielodrive.com/images/photo-archive/susan-atkins-spahn-ranch-02.jpg)

                                                            Susan Atkins


                                               
                                               (http://ist1-1.filesor.com/pimpandhost.com/3/6/3/4/36345/1/1/s/i/11siO/pregnant.jpg)

                                                               Sharon Tate



                                               (http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/d9/99/10/d999105f5381d9ed57877724fe3cec9e.jpg)

                                                              Leslie Van Houten


                                                   (http://cdn3.whatculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Helter-Skelter.jpg)


                                                                Charles Manson


                                                   (https://s16-us2.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http:%2F%2Fmedia-cache-ak0.pinimg.com%2F736x%2F61%2Fea%2F68%2F61ea6809ecbfcfa176f5edc233213d86.jpg&sp=8e269a63d30efa442f5e20d116d23b82)

                                                        Tex Watson


                                                     (http://blogs.kcrw.com/whichwayla/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/squeakyfromme.jpg)

                                                               Lynette Alice “Squeaky” Fromme Born October 22 1948



                                                      (http://www.cielodrive.com/images/gallery/linda-kasabian/03.jpg)


                                                              Linda Kasabian
                                                             


                                               


                                     
                                                   
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: agelbert on August 27, 2015, 06:47:35 PM
Wed Aug 26, 2015 at 10:22 AM EDT.

Two Seattle police officers fired after body camera worn by bus driver catches them in a huge lie


On November 14, 2014, Kelvin Kirkpatrick, an African-American Metro bus driver with over 20 years of experience in Seattle, requested that sheriff's officers remove sleeping homeless men from his bus, per company policy. The officers weren't helpful and even lied to Kirkpatrick about why they weren't being helpful. He got back on his bus and got back to work.

Little did he know that two of the officers involved would flat out lie about the entire encounter in a report that they completed, stating that he dropped f-bombs and berated them. The thing is, that never happened—and a body camera, worn by the bus driver himself, captured the entire ordeal as you can see below the fold.

The firings resulted from an investigation into a complaint filed by King County Sheriff’s Office Sergeant Lou Caballero after an early morning argument on Nov. 14 between him and driver Kelvin Kirkpatrick in downtown Seattle, internal Sheriff’s Office documents showed.

During the argument, Kirkpatrick, a 20-year transit veteran, criticized Caballero and his deputies for not removing non-paying “sleepers” from his bus.

Caballero said Kirkpatrick yelled at him: “You got three fucking deputies out here that don’t do nothing.”  (http://www.desismileys.com/smileys/desismileys_2932.gif)
 Another deputy, Amy Shoblom, attested to that in a witness statement.  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-030815183114.gif)

Both officers have now been fired   (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png), but it shows you the frightening ease with which officers will not only make shit up, but back each other up on the fiction.  (http://[url=http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191329.bmp]http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191329.bmp[/url])

http://www.youtube.com/v/o5v37M4T13U

America. 2015.


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/26/1415635/-Two-Seattle-police-officers-fired-after-body-camera-worn-by-bus-driver-catches-them-in-a-huge-lie (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/26/1415635/-Two-Seattle-police-officers-fired-after-body-camera-worn-by-bus-driver-catches-them-in-a-huge-lie)
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on August 27, 2015, 06:55:47 PM
Agb, I never said putting them in prison is hate (we should all be in prison by the same standard) i said suggesting hanging them which surly suggested is hate. He seemed to think the treason deserving death was the secession not the comments. Greece break from eu,  scotland break from uk, crimea from ukraine all aok though?  None of those comments condoned Killing. I also note the author says he suspects a professional wordsmith must have made up "heritage not hate" as neoconfederayes could not possibly have such minimal command of english,  yet cites a comment saying white people might have helped with spelling as  being hate. Not that i support those comments,  i dont like them.   However as usual it is always do as i say and not as i do. not if y want to be credible outside the echo chamber.

As for what works Wrt the othet topic. there was one mass murder in 1996 that i remember,  since then the laws got very tough. No pump action,  no semi,  auto,  and the rest of it. Now if your goal is only to have no other mass murder again in the next 20 years and counting yes its a success. If your goal is to feel relaxed in the presence of police yes its a success. If u are more relaxed knowing nobody around is allowed to conceal carry then yes its a success. if u want  7 out of 8 of the less than one in one hundred thousand deaths by gunshot to be suicide then yes its a success. The us and central america are the highest stats in the world for it though in double digits compared to other places with a decimal point per hundred thousand. However as i said u can not fix the problem when the society is already dangerous because most of the weapons are not registered and recorded so taking them from those that are only gives crims an advantage. Doing away with the right to use it for self defence would only give crims an advantage. Making an amnesty and buyback scheme like we had would not be popular because the people would think its more important to have protection than  follow the law. And of course the big one which is the constitution Which i agree with in principle. For that purpose you can say what we have would not work. But if u wanted to fight then letting air out of tyres and putting potatoes in tailpipes will work more to your advantage than standing there like clint eastwood or john wayne.
Title: Re: An Eye for an Eye is Bad Medicine
Post by: K-Dog on August 27, 2015, 07:28:22 PM
The NRA is the greatest and most effective lobbying organization in the history of the world. It has managed to make any discussion of access to weapons for even the most seriously deranged in this country a "third rail" issue: so fraught with electoral danger that to even touch it means political electrocution.

The 1st Amendment to the Constitution has ever church and religious whack-a-doodle in the country operating in its defense.

Fortunate indeed that the 2nd amendment to the Constitution has its own worthy defenders.

Let each of the others get their own.

The NRA is opposing legislation that will ban the sale of animal parts from endangered species in Washington state.  The reason is that they think saving elephants from going extinct is less important than protecting gun collections with ivory handled revolvers.  The NRA is an organization of whack-a-doodles lost in extremism.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepolitics/2015/08/26/the-nras-olympia-lobbyist-defends-ivory-handled-guns-takes-on-huge-billionaire-paul-allen/ (http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepolitics/2015/08/26/the-nras-olympia-lobbyist-defends-ivory-handled-guns-takes-on-huge-billionaire-paul-allen/)

The NRA may be defending the second amendment but they are far from worthy.

(http://news.nationalgeographic.com/content/dam/news/photos/000/807/80759.ngsversion.1422284230737.adapt.676.1.jpg)

Satao in Tsavo East National Park, Kenya, in 2013.  Before the magnificent tusker was killed for his ivory.
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: agelbert on August 27, 2015, 07:39:37 PM
Agb, I never said putting them in prison is hate (we should all be in prison by the same standard) i said suggesting hanging them which surly suggested is hate. He seemed to think the treason deserving death was the secession not the comments. Greece break from eu,  scotland break from uk, crimea from ukraine all aok though?  None of those comments condoned Killing. I also note the author says he suspects a professional wordsmith must have made up "heritage not hate" as neoconfederayes could not possibly have such minimal command of english,  yet cites a comment saying white people might have helped with spelling as  being hate. Not that i support those comments,  i dont like them.   However as usual it is always do as i say and not as i do. not if y want to be credible outside the echo chamber.

As for what works Wrt the othet topic. there was one mass murder in 1996 that i remember,  since then the laws got very tough. No pump action,  no semi,  auto,  and the rest of it. Now if your goal is only to have no other mass murder again in the next 20 years and counting yes its a success. If your goal is to feel relaxed in the presence of police yes its a success. If u are more relaxed knowing nobody around is allowed to conceal carry then yes its a success. if u want  7 out of 8 of the less than one in one hundred thousand deaths by gunshot to be suicide then yes its a success. The us and central america are the highest stats in the world for it though in double digits compared to other places with a decimal point per hundred thousand. However as i said u can not fix the problem when the society is already dangerous because most of the weapons are not registered and recorded so taking them from those that are only gives crims an advantage. Doing away with the right to use it for self defence would only give crims an advantage. Making an amnesty and buyback scheme like we had would not be popular because the people would think its more important to have protection than  follow the law. And of course the big one which is the constitution Which i agree with in principle. For that purpose you can say what we have would not work. But if u wanted to fight then letting air out of tyres and putting potatoes in tailpipes will work more to your advantage than standing there like clint eastwood or john wayne.

Perhaps I am wrong but I thought Surly was being sarcastic or engaging in irony. Your reaction that he was engaging in a tit for tat "hate" thing is simply not accurate. Did you LOOK at the comments the neo-confederates made? The "don't hate" line is part of their propaganda. It's Orwellian!

And, no, I'm not trying to get rid of mass murderers. Any sufficiently intelligent sociopath can make one hell of an explosive device from some chemical fertilizer.

MOST of the killing of innocent people is done by the POLICE. I want THEM to operate WITHOUT hand guns too. Yes, a lot people will have concussion injuries from getting batted on the head and some may die. But the whole violence thing is far more VISIBLE with batons or crossbows or sling shots or bows and arrows. It's a lot bloodier while being less lethal. Even the electronic zappers would be a better deal IF the cops didn't carry hand guns AND ONLY IF they were NOT permitted to zap somebody more than ONCE.

No matter how good a shot you are, it is extremely difficult to shoot somebody for the express purpose of disabling or disarming them when you shoot at them.

You have more control over what you do with slower weaponry. You have more time to think of whether you want to do it or not.

ALL of that helps to prevent irrational violence.

The more VISIBLE a violent act is, the more it registers on the brain, is that not true?

The more it registers on the brain, the more an empathy based individual will judge it as wrong behavior, is that not true?

A fifteen round boxing match has more of an effect on a person than a bullet fired at a person you hate, does it not?

I want to make it HARDER To kill people. That's all, UB. What is your problem with that? DON'T tell me that won't change a thing. Of course it won't change human nature. That goes without saying.

I just want to limit the reach of an individual that is angry or vengeful, whether he or she is justified in being angry or vengeful or not.

You do not like the idea of not having the long reach of a weapon that can kill (if a rifle) at 300 yards or about 50 yards (if you are a really good shot with a hand gun).  I do.
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: jdwheeler42 on August 27, 2015, 08:03:26 PM
But your claim that being locked and loaded will keep TPTB at bay is wishful thinking. TPTB won the arms race with the population over a century ago.

You can kill your neighbor (by accident or because of strife) or some local thief with your hardware, Eddie. That's it.
Yes, and no.... if TPTB want you dead, you're dead.  There is no defending against a Hellfire missile, except disappearing off the face of the Earth, which is almost as good as dead as far as TPTB are concerned.  So, yeah, when it comes to killing, TPTB win.

But death and destruction are easy.  That's why a lone gunman, a couple bombers, or a handful of people with box cutters can do so much of it in such a short time.  Holding territory is a completely different game than merely killing people.  If you've got 3% of the population fighting you, but have the support of the other 97%, you can keep a lid on things quite well.  But if that 3% is being passively supported by 70% of the population, you have a major problem.  You have to watch out for an ambush around every corner.  Those so-called peashooters are good enough.  It doesn't matter whether it is 18th century America, 20th century Southeast Asia or 21st century Middle East, the price of occupation gets to be too high.
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: MKing on August 27, 2015, 08:27:28 PM
When it's said and done, I just prefer to own arms,just in case I might need them.  They are only good for one thing though, and that's killing something or somebody.

Well...sure. And better yet, between people anyway, making it FAIR.

(http://i1.cpcache.com/product_zoom/437182893/sam_colt_made_them_equal_tee.jpg?height=250&width=250&padToSquare=true)

Quote from: Eddie
Obviously' owning a gun and using a gun is something that requires really good judgment, which seems to be in ever shorter supply.  Meanwhile, guns are cranked out by the millions,and anybody who wants one can get one.

Like cars, which can't even be used like millions of times to ward off evil doers!

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/c8/af/d4/c8afd454d5a3ea590235a3d9f7e2c639.jpg)

Quote from: Eddie
We have a real problem with stupid people killing innocent people with guns. I wish there were a test for good judgment that one had to pass to own a gun, but we don't seem to be able to do that in any way that can't be rigged.

I think we have a trained and armed cop killing innocent people problem, normal folks aren't out blowing away too many folks, although the crazies aren't grouped in there.

Quote from: Eddie
I expect more and more of these racially driven shootings. But it's more of an excuse for powerless,angry assholes to use to justify their inability to control their own violent emotional outbursts. It's not so much to do with race as it does being cornered like rats in a world with poor prospects and no frontiers.

Too many people.

Yeah, but this guys beef wasn't about people, it was about how he was treated. It sounds as though he should have been running the network. Disappointment can do strange things to people, they are twisted and deformed by their own disappointment into something else.
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Petty Tyrant on August 27, 2015, 08:41:48 PM
Agb
Frankly i like the way it is here and I dont really trust anyone around me who might be armed the better.  I dont like it in asia when the doorman of the hotel has one on his hip even though its for my protection. I always have a moments unease when anyone is armed. I like it being in my favor if im big and strong if anyone is determined to try something im likely to stop them and dont want to worry about them producing a weapon. I never talk to the police except if i forget to register one of my vehicles since they abolished stickers with dates on them.

But In america twice i noticed them very different. They are hostile there at least in part because u could be carrying im sure. Two at the capitol checked me out as i was wearing a big ski coat and a big backpack, (apparently someone had tried something recently) the female was not really rude but also not polite and the guy gave me wrong directions to try and make me miss my train at union station. In georgia i saw a (black) cop with an ev scooter and i have an interest in them. I hadnt seen this design called a segway,  but when the people he was talking to looked at me looking at it he looked at me in a way that made me immediately move along. That would be because i might be a threat for all he knew.

As to your suggestions, im sceptical not because theres anything wrong with it but because the toothpaste is already out of the tube.  im surprised u dont have more tasers already,  although there are plenty of investigations into their misuse too.
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: agelbert on August 27, 2015, 09:04:44 PM
UB,
You may be right.  :(

MKing said,
Quote

I think we have a trained and armed cop killing innocent people problem, normal folks aren't out blowing away too many folks, although the crazies aren't grouped in there.


 :emthup: Agreed!
Title: Official Race War Thread: Five Black Lives Matter protesters shot in Minneapolis
Post by: RE on November 24, 2015, 07:44:12 AM
Race War scaling up too.

RE

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/11/24/five-people-shot-near-minneapolis-protest-cops-searching-for-3-white-male-suspects/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/11/24/five-people-shot-near-minneapolis-protest-cops-searching-for-3-white-male-suspects/)

Five Black Lives Matter protesters shot in Minneapolis; police searching for white suspects

Simmering racial tensions have boiled over yet again after several men shot five people who had been protesting the recent police killing of an African American man in Minneapolis.

(https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_908w/2010-2019/Wires/Images/2015-11-21/Getty/498128858.jpg&w=1484)

The shooting occurred late Monday night about a block from the Minneapolis Police Department’s 4th Precinct, where protesters have held daily demonstrations since the fatal Nov. 15 police shooting of 24-year-old Jamar Clark.

Police announced on social media that five people suffered non-life-threatening gunshot wounds and that officers were searching for “3 white male suspects” who fled the scene.

A police spokesman confirmed to The Washington Post that those shot had been protesting outside the police station before the incident.

“Tonight, white supremacists attacked the ‪#‎4thPrecinctShutDown‬ in an act of domestic terrorism,” Black Lives Matter Minneapolis said on Facebook. “We won’t be intimidated.”

Though Clark’s family called for the protests to come to an end following the shooting, Black Lives Matter Minneapolis vowed to return to the police station for another demonstration on Tuesday.

A video recorded by a journalist at the scene showed people fleeing from the shooting — then screaming for an ambulance. A young African American man was seen writhing in pain with an apparent gunshot wound to the leg while fellow protesters — then police and paramedics — tried to help.

Details of the shooting, however, remain murky.

Oluchi Omeoga, a young protester who has participated in the demonstrations since last Monday, said she witnessed the incident.

Omeoga and her fellow protesters saw three people wearing masks who “weren’t supposed to be there,” she told the Associated Press. When the three interlopers left the crowd and began walking down the street, a few protesters followed them. But when the three men reached a corner, she said, they pulled out weapons and fired at the protesters.

“A group of white supremacists showed up at the protest, as they have done most nights,” Miski Noor, a Black Lives Matter organizer, told the Minneapolis Star Tribune.

Police have not confirmed or denied Noor’s claim.

[Reports: Chicago police officer to be charged with murder of black teen shot 16 times]

Noor said the white men “opened fire on about six protesters,” after the protesters tried to herd the men away from the protest area.

Dana Jaehnert, another demonstrator, told the newspaper that one of the men wore a mask. She said she heard four gunshots.

Jie Wronski-Riley, a student at the University of Minnesota, told the Star Tribune that the shooting occurred as protesters tried to move the counter-demonstrators, who had been taunting protesters, away from the protesters’ camp in front of the police station. Suddenly, Wronski-Riley heard what sounded like firecrackers.

“Surely they’re not shooting human beings,” he thought to himself before looking down and realizing that two African American men on either side of him had been hit, he told the Star Tribune, adding that the incident turned “really chaotic, really fast.”

Nekima Levy-Pounds, president of the Minneapolis chapter of the NAACP, returned to the scene after the shooting incident.

“I am obviously appalled that white supremacists would open fire on nonviolent, peaceful protesters,” she told the Star Tribune.

Police floodlights illuminate the protest encampment outside the 4th Precinct police station on Friday in Minneapolis. (Stephen Maturen/Getty Images)

U.S. Rep. Keith Ellison (D), who has supported the demonstrations, spoke out about the shooting.

“I don’t want to perpetuate rumor,” he said, according to Minnesota Public Radio. “I’d rather just try to get the facts out. That’s a better way to go. I know there’s a lot of speculation as to who these people were. And they well could have been, I’m not trying to say they weren’t white supremacists. But I just haven’t been able to piece together enough information to say with any real clarity.”

The shooting occurred the night before the one-year anniversary of a Missouri grand jury’s decision against indicting white Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson in the fatal shooting of unarmed black teenager Michael Brown. That decision reignited powerful frustrations about America’s policing of African Americans.

In Minneapolis, protesters have been camping out in front of the 4th Precinct since Nov. 15, when two MPD officers were involved in the contentious killing of Clark.

[Minneapolis police officers involved in shooting death of Jamar Clark are identified]

Authorities said officers were responding to a call for help from paramedics, who said Clark was interrupting their attempts to help an assault victim. Clark, who was unarmed, was also a suspect in the assault, police said.

“At some point during an altercation that ensued between the officers and the individual, an officer discharged his weapon, striking the individual,” the state Department of Public Safety said in a Nov. 17 statement.

Clark died in a hospital a day after being shot.

Even before his death, however, his shooting was already causing outrage. Several witnesses claimed that Clark was handcuffed at the time of the fatal shooting, although police claimed otherwise. The Minnesota Department of Public Safety’s Bureau of Criminal Apprehension is now investigating the shooting at the request of MPD.

As protests gained strength last week, Minneapolis Mayor Betsy Hodges also asked the Justice Department to open a federal civil rights investigation into the shooting.

Both Black Lives Matter organizers and the Minneapolis NAACP have called on authorities to release video of the shooting.

[Outrage and little clarity in Minneapolis after black man is shot by police]

But Minnesota Gov. Mark Dayton said Monday that video footage taken from an ambulance at the scene was inconclusive. Dayton, who met with protesters and Clark’s family on Saturday, said he has urged federal investigators to release the tapes as soon as possible.

Although largely peaceful, the demonstrations have been disrupted by several other incidents. More than 50 protesters were arrested on Nov. 16 after they shut down a highway. And on Friday, police announced they had arrested two men for spray-painting profanity on the 4th Precinct’s walls.

After Monday night’s shooting, Clark’s family thanked protesters for their “incredible support” but said protests outside the police station should stop.

“Thank you to the community for the incredible support you have shown for our family in this difficult time,” Clark’s brother, Eddie Sutton, said in a statement, according to Minnesota Public Radio. “We appreciate Black Lives Matter for holding it down and keeping the protests peaceful.

“But in light of tonight’s shootings, the family feels out of imminent concern for the safety of the occupiers, we must get the occupation of the 4th precinct ended onto the next step.”

This story has been updated.
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Eddie on November 24, 2015, 08:37:21 AM
Translation:

 The protesters tried to intimidate and  run off the KKKer's and got shot for their trouble. Where were the police, if this was happening outside their door?
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: K-Dog on November 24, 2015, 02:08:04 PM
Releasing video of the shooting while suspects are still at large would be inappropriate unless investigators think it is in the best interest of the investigation.

FYI

Diners know I am in Seattle and I have been for most of my adult life.  Originally I was from the Minneapolis area.  A place called Fridley if you really want to know.  Growing up I learned and saw with my own eyes that Minneapolis was the interacial marriage capital of the country.  It was a place for mixed couples to move to if they wanted to be accepted and live normal lives.  Seattle is the unwed mother's capital of the nation but that is another story and I'm not commenting on stupid bitches right now.

The news of this shooting tells me the city I left has changed.  But perhaps not.  When I'm able I will surf for local news to find out what the reaction in Minnesota is to this atrocity.  I won't say Minneapolis was free of racism but the prevailing attitude growing up was that 'we are better than that'.  Racists had to maintain their attitudes on the downlow or they would be scorned.  I hope that has not changed.

All lives matter !
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread - Germany bans sausage sales / Muslims considered !
Post by: azozeo on March 08, 2016, 01:55:44 PM
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/650246/Germany-bans-pork-cafes-schools-offending-Muslim-migrants (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/650246/Germany-bans-pork-cafes-schools-offending-Muslim-migrants)
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Eddie on March 08, 2016, 02:16:02 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/um2p4GlEbKg&fs=1

Not the sausages! Makes me even more determined to go into the pig business.

Title: Germany bans sausage sales- SHORT THE PIGS!
Post by: RE on March 08, 2016, 02:17:40 PM
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/650246/Germany-bans-pork-cafes-schools-offending-Muslim-migrants (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/650246/Germany-bans-pork-cafes-schools-offending-Muslim-migrants)

So we should Short Pork Bellies?

Jimmy Dean will not be pleased.  :(

(http://www.allaccess.com/assets/img/editorial/raw/ji/jimmydean.jpg)

(http://i5.walmartimages.com/dfw/dce07b8c-7e6e/k2-_819ba326-330e-4176-a6a0-2b22b13add50.v1.jpg)

RE
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: azozeo on March 08, 2016, 03:21:59 PM
You sleigh me ............           :icon_sunny:   :icon_mrgreen:   :evil4:                        :icon_sunny:    :icon_sunny:   :icon_sunny:
Title: Re: Official Race War Thread
Post by: Palloy on March 08, 2016, 06:27:07 PM
Quote
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/650246/Germany-bans-pork-cafes-schools-offending-Muslim-migrants

Don't believe everything you read in the Express, UK's trashiest newspaper.
Correction: Don't believe everything anything you read in the Express, UK's trashiest newspaper.

The entire story hinges on "Daniel Günther, party representative, claimed that ...".  No supporting facts.
Title: Unions, American Exceptionalism, White Supremacy, and the Road to Hell
Post by: RE on September 14, 2017, 12:32:50 AM
http://www.greanvillepost.com/2017/09/13/unions-american-exceptionalism-white-supremacy-and-the-road-to-hell/ (http://www.greanvillepost.com/2017/09/13/unions-american-exceptionalism-white-supremacy-and-the-road-to-hell/)

Unions, American Exceptionalism, White Supremacy, and the Road to Hell
September 13, 2017

(http://www.greanvillepost.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Unions-UK.jpg)

horiz-long grey
HELP ENLIGHTEN YOUR FELLOWS. BE SURE TO PASS THIS ON. SURVIVAL DEPENDS ON IT.

by TOM CROFTON

A case can be made that the most direct path to prosperity for working families as a whole is one that has a collective basis creating benchmark standards for wages, conditions, and benefits; where energy otherwise spent on infighting and backstabbing among workers over compensation is harnessed into a common effort. The concept of creating a floor beneath which no one can go is at the heart of union organizing. The energy released from successful agreement to cooperate can go beyond worker compensation and build emotional solidarity among workers.  It can be used to get a voice on corporate boards, to trade better productivity and peace on the production lines for a voice in the quality of the product and the level of responsibility towards the planet. Unions working together across industries, and across national borders can be a powerful, parallel, political force if they act inclusively and maintain a goal of “prosperity of all, at the expense of none” (including, now we see, the Eco system).

Union movements around the world have had varying success at harnessing this solidarity. European efforts have used their power to bring universal public health care, education, family leave, and the 35 hour week to all of their fellow citizens, union members or not. In these cases, the organized minority had the collective will to steer society towards a more egalitarian division of resources and use of government than would otherwise have developed.

These modern European successes came after periods of disastrous self-destruction, when the working folks across a continent traded their solidarity for nationalism. In those times, the workers were conned into following despotic rulers who used them as cannon fodder in the guise of patriotism. The workers who had previously used their power to force the right to offer universal healthcare were transformed, in  large by propaganda, into armies whose mission was to destroy the peace and prosperity of their working class neighbors.

The American experience has been quite different. Modern right wing political propaganda has been built around the individual, the Marlboro man, the rider of the range who needs a freedom from interference by forces larger than him. Freedom from hunger and want is not considered important as long as there are empty lands to exploit, or weaker tribes to push away. Community plays no role, as each man fights for his own survival.

The modern myth of the Wild West has lasted 5 times longer  than the actual period it reflects. The major pre-1900 conflicts that created the myth of American Exceptionalism were all about stealing a weaker tribe’s land or defending one’s status as a cut above others. White Supremacy, the surviving vine of antebellum chattel slavery, is based on the idea that no matter how bad I’ve got it, someone else has it worse; because, if nothing else he is black. The foot soldiers of the South were phenomenal soldiers. Their leaders were driven by selfish aristocratic needs to protect their oppressive economic institutions, their personal wealth, and their contrived social status. These were the guys riding horses at the back of the army. The workers, sharing little of the wealth and status of their leaders, walking barefoot at the front, were cannon fodder. Their major motivation to fight was simple: they were not niggas. Equality was a threat greater than death.

So much of the modern rush to fascism is a repetition of the most base human actions; to climb up while pushing down. Much has been written about blue collar folks being fed up with the corporate democrats and their middle finger vote for Trump. Like the rebel soldiers of the 1800’s or the European socialist workers turned stormtroopers, American workers are being led down a primrose path. The folks pulling the strings keep the pots boiling.

There can be no denying that the corporate democrats have abandoned the workers in their business and political activities. Globalization is all about breaking unions and the race to the bottom. Finding cheaper wage rates and increasing production.

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The spirit of early American unionism has been lost and forgotten.

As the outgoing wave of factories moving to the Far East pulled prosperity from the American worker, a second incoming wave of new investment from abroad has been centered in those areas where unionism is the least strong (with no irony, the South). Major manufacturers of cars and aerospace products have set up plants in right-to-work states, where any benefits developed through a successful union organizing drive are shared with those not paying dues. Wages and benefits are set above the local market, in an already depressed region, so the risks of organizing for benchmark rates and conditions without collective protection are great. A tremendous amount of anti-union propaganda is delivered by the corporation in mandatory meetings.

A recent effort to organize the Nissan plant in Mississippi failed with a 37% yes vote.

For an explanation of that effort see this piece in Labor Notes.

All of which brings us to a time where the worst angels of the American psyche have been animated by a renaming, and refurbishing, of the original sin of America’s founding fathers.  American Exceptionalism is an extension of the theft of a continent from its natives on the backs of imported slaves,  the resulting Monroe Doctrine Big Stick and its genocidal export to the Philippines, an outgrowth of the Cold War and its proxy battles among the yellow skinned poor folks of SE Asia, and the belief that the resources of the world are ours to take and fight over, especially if the battleground is someone else’s backyard such as the Middle East.

American Exceptionalism only works when the barefoot soldiers (many modern soldiers need food stamps for their families) have someone below them to hate.  The fact that over a million Iraqi citizens died by American action between the two Gulf Wars is one of those invisible facts we can ignore because we can debase their culture and their relative poverty.

The recent White Supremacy rallies are the direct result of the willingness of the ruling class to further squeeze the working folks, who have already been divided and conquered by a coordinated effort of big business and their government proxies; exactly as the aristocracy of the South squeezed the poor white farmers to fight their battles. American Exceptionalism, and White Supremacy, and Right to Work, and Manifest Destiny are the Road to Hell. If humans have any other role on this planet beyond narcissism, we need to intentionally develop vehicles such as Unionism, to drive up that road and out of this cesspool we accept as “reality”. We need to view the Marlboro Man as a symbol of cancer, of the lungs and of unrestrained, unsustainable Eco-system destroying growth.

Those vehicles will not be Lilly white.

As workers are increasingly people of color and female, the labor movement must connect better with other social justice movements, such as civil rights and feminist movements, as well as environmental and peace movements. These movements are all fighting the same systemic nexus of power and can only succeed together.

The rise of the world wide resistance to our current political excesses, the actions of other industrial powers to push back against our current leaders, and the independent actions of towns, cities, and states to act towards building a sustainable future offer the first glimmers of hope that we can still build a prosperous world as we throw off this latest national disgrace. Unions have a role to play in becoming a parallel force to individual brands or nationalisms. We need to use best practices and keep a goal of universal peace and prosperity in mind to avoid the trap of falling into our worst behaviors.

Title: Race War Thread - Merkels Meltdown
Post by: azozeo on September 14, 2018, 03:23:39 PM
German Chancellor Angela Merkel has had an epic meltdown following mass criticism from thousands of German protesters unhappy with 'violent migrants' plaguing the country.

https://neonnettle.com/news/5067-merkel-melts-down-as-germans-rise-up-against-her-insane-immigration-policies