Doomstead Diner Menu => Doom Psychology & Philosophy => Topic started by: Eddie on October 01, 2015, 12:33:58 PM

Title: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on October 01, 2015, 12:33:58 PM
What is it with college campuses?

This guy was evidently a good shot. Big body count.

At some point this kind of shit is going to force gun control, bad as I hate to see it.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/10/01/officials-active-shooter-oregon-college/73153610/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/10/01/officials-active-shooter-oregon-college/73153610/)
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: MKing on October 01, 2015, 01:10:13 PM
I wonder what the laws are for citizen personal protection in Oregon? I know as a law abiding and background checked citizen authorized to carry concealed firearms in some 35 states in the Union I would become an instant criminal for doing the same in Oregon. They have laws ensuring that unarmed hunting grounds are available for whatever whacko happens to need one.

Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on October 01, 2015, 01:11:03 PM
What is it with college campuses?

This guy was evidently a good shot. Big body count.

At some point this kind of shit is going to force gun control, bad as I hate to see it.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/10/01/officials-active-shooter-oregon-college/73153610/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/10/01/officials-active-shooter-oregon-college/73153610/)

The horse already left the barn on Gun Control.

There is no way all the guns out there can be retrieved and there will still be plenty around to buy on the black market for anyone real intereted in doing a shoot em up.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on October 01, 2015, 01:16:45 PM
There is no way all the guns out there can be retrieved and there will still be plenty around to buy on the black market for anyone real interested in doing a shoot em up.

RE


I wasn't planning to voluntarily relinquish mine.

 I mean, I would always obey the law of course, but since I don't have a closet full of guns and thousands of rounds of ammo in a large variety of calibers, I wouldn't be affected by forced registration.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on October 02, 2015, 09:28:11 AM


    In the offline world, Mr. Mercer’s mother sought to protect him from all manner of neighborhood annoyances, former neighbors in Torrance said, from loud children and barking dogs to household pests. Once, neighbors said, she went door-to-door with a petition to get the landlord to exterminate cockroaches in her apartment, saying they bothered her son.

       “She said, ‘My son is dealing with some mental issues, and the roaches are really irritating him,’ ” Julia Winstead, 55, said.
 


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-02/meet-oregon-school-shooter-chris-harper-mercer-youre-going-see-god-just-about-one-se (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-02/meet-oregon-school-shooter-chris-harper-mercer-youre-going-see-god-just-about-one-se)

I think the pattern here is becoming more obvious.


Eddie's profile of a school shooter:

Male

Twenty-something

Loner

History of mental illness

Likely on some mood altering prescription drug

Desire for notoriety

Feelings of social rejection

Delusional thinking

Identification with terrorists, neo-nazis, or other militant, anti-establishment groups

Fascination with guns as a power object
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on October 02, 2015, 10:00:31 AM
And on the religion angle:

Witnesses said the shooter braced his victims and made them state their religion. He then said, "You're going to see God in just about one second." Then he shot them.

The press is making sound like he was targeting Christians. I doubt this is true.

My guess is that this behavior is just the shooter exercising his power over the victim, much as a serial killer might. And it really smacks of some line he probably heard in a movie, something he thought was a display of coolness and strength.

I'm not a film buff, but I'd bet money somebody can tell me what movie that line is from. I am trying to search it. I almost think I remember it myself.

Something like:

"Do you believe in God?"

"Yes."

"Good, Because you're going to meet him in just about one second."


Who knows what movie?
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: MKing on October 02, 2015, 10:22:45 AM
And on the religion angle:

Witnesses said the shooter braced his victims and made them state their religion. He then said, "You're going to see God in just about one second." Then he shot them.

The press is making sound like he was targeting Christians. I doubt this is true.

Eyewitness testimony to the contrary?

Quote from: Eddie
My guess is that this behavior is just the shooter exercising his power over the victim, much as a serial killer might. And it really smacks of some line he probably heard in a movie, something he thought was a display of coolness and strength.

While psychoanalysis of random mass murders is entertaining, it is as likely to be his hatred of what he thought some cult or sect or another had done to him, his family, his ancestors, or his invisible friends, then the usual brand of Hollywood entertainment. Wackos are tricky this way I imagine.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on October 02, 2015, 11:07:09 AM
Eyewitness testimony to the contrary?


Rural Oregon. He asked them what their religion was, and probably they ALL said Christian. Probably a 90% Christian population.

I tell you, it's a direct movie quote, just like Dirty Harry saying "Make my day." It's just his self-aggrandizing bullshit, identifying with some movie character he looked up to. Nothing to do with religion beyond that.

While psychoanalysis of random mass murders is entertaining, it is as likely to be his hatred of what he thought some cult or sect or another had done to him, his family, his ancestors, or his invisible friends, then the usual brand of Hollywood entertainment. Wackos are tricky this way I imagine.

Sure, could be. I think they are all crazy. Every one of them. But I feel that I'm beginning to understand the mindset better. In the beginning, I was completely puzzled by this phenomenon, but now I think there's a real pattern emerging.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on October 02, 2015, 11:31:30 AM
Took a couple of tries, but I found it.

It's Charles Bronson in the movie Death Wish II.

http://www.youtube.com/v/eowuu9rVjZw&fs=1

Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: MKing on October 02, 2015, 03:06:07 PM
Eyewitness testimony to the contrary?


Rural Oregon. He asked them what their religion was, and probably they ALL said Christian. Probably a 90% Christian population.

So if that is the cult he has a hard on for, its a perfect place for the kind of hunting he was looking for maybe?

Quote from: Eddie
I tell you, it's a direct movie quote, just like Dirty Harry saying "Make my day." It's just his self-aggrandizing bullshit, identifying with some movie character he looked up to. Nothing to do with religion beyond that.

Or the people being quoted were the ones who saw the movie, and were paraphrasing what they remember as best they could in a high stress situation. What do you think the number of folks in that school who had ever seen a gun before, let alone had one pointed in their direction by someone who means it? I haven't heard a single comment yet on the number of people in the entire building carrying their own weapons who tried to fight back.

Providing resistance free locations for wackos with guns is a bad idea.

Quote from: Eddie
While psychoanalysis of random mass murders is entertaining, it is as likely to be his hatred of what he thought some cult or sect or another had done to him, his family, his ancestors, or his invisible friends, then the usual brand of Hollywood entertainment. Wackos are tricky this way I imagine.

Sure, could be. I think they are all crazy. Every one of them. But I feel that I'm beginning to understand the mindset better. In the beginning, I was completely puzzled by this phenomenon, but now I think there's a real pattern emerging.

Sure. Crazy people with guns go looking for places with the highest likelihood of helpless and young folks, as opposed to well armed adults. I've been in this restaurant, it was the safest place I've probably been in my entire life.

(http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/10177930_678239782224455_4623201206060666123_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Petty Tyrant on October 02, 2015, 04:15:40 PM
Eddie, your reference said a dislike for organized religion. He states it several times In several places. If he likes the ira then christian is his least disliked. throw out all your  assumptions, see if elliot rogers, adam lanza and this guy all seem autistic from the available info and start again, as its a game changer. Some things still apply others dont.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on October 02, 2015, 04:31:34 PM
So you think they all show signs of autism?
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Petty Tyrant on October 02, 2015, 04:51:37 PM
So you think they all show signs of autism?

Lanza had a dx. Elliot rogers yes definitely,  this guy  are u kidding? 

1. doesnt smile in fotos, doesnt understand or do the whole facial expression communication.

2. Wears same outfit every day. Typical.. preference for routine. Would probably lose it if u change that  routine.

3. Does lose it at annoyances such as noises and cockroaches. If u get the neighbors dog to bark say every 15 minutes for 10 seconds, or cockroaches to run in a straight line its fine.

4.  Obsession and fixation. Can be ANY interest,  in this case its the ira leading to extreme thinking re religious vs spiritual.

5. Example of someone attempting conversation takes typical dead end to topic of interest to other.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Petty Tyrant on October 02, 2015, 05:05:43 PM
If im not mistaken the ira are catholic. Probably most people in his town are protestant. He wanted to make sure he was  getting the right ones. So im afraid mking seems closer to the mark in this case. Wanting fame or to feel powerful has nothing to do with it with the autistic. Doesnt want to see fear on faces as u suggest because doesnt even understand it.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: g on October 02, 2015, 07:11:41 PM
Quote
Sure. Crazy people with guns go looking for places with the highest likelihood of helpless and young folks, as opposed to well armed adults. I've been in this restaurant, it was the safest place I've probably been in my entire life.


I have to agree with MKing totally on this one.

These sick demented pricks are known for attacking the weak and helpless in places where there is little possibility of someone else having a gun to protect themselves.

Churches and Schools, not Police stations are there favored venues.

Too much attention is given to these fucking zeros as well. They are all seeking fame and notoriety.

Their vermin that should be placed in a hole and shit and pissed on by the community involved before filling it in. Rather than a grand expose of their hideous lives, which gives these scum places in history that the people who do good all their lives deserve.

Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: MKing on October 02, 2015, 07:16:58 PM
What is it with college campuses?

(http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/gun-free-cartoon-3.jpg)
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on October 02, 2015, 08:18:52 PM
While most of the shooters fit a similar psychological profile, I don't think that really helps much in terms of prevention.  They still will be able to get hold of a gun on the black market even if they were pre-diagnosed and banned from owning one legally.

The fact they are young males for the most part means they fit in well on a College Campus, so they can walk around without seeming out of the ordinary until they pull the gun.  That's why most of the shootings happen on college campuses.

Now, the solution of having everyone packing heat would likely get the perp shot after himself shooting at most 2 people, which seems like a good result, but it has problems.  The fact is that a lot of college age guys get drunk and get in fights.  So even though you would reduce the number of people a psycho could take out, you would increase the number of instances of drunken guys shooting each other.

The one thing you can say for sure is there will be more of these instances as collapse progresses.  There are more psychologically disturbed people all the time, higher rates of autism etc.  Trying to confiscate the guns of all the people out there who have them would cause its own backlash.  Plenty of gun owners won't give up their weapons without a fight of course.  It also would take a constitutional ammendment, since the right to bear arms is still in there.

In the near term, if I was the parent of a college age student attending class, I would buy him/her Kevlar and Pepper spray.  The kevlar would protect long enough for the potential victim to spray the perp, and then he could be disarmed.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: g on October 02, 2015, 08:28:28 PM
It is a very complex problem RE. Prescription drugs I'm told are another major factor that the piggy drug outfits mange to keep quiet in the news about these crazies.

You are totally correct about guns, if outlawed they will be as hard to get as booze was during the depression, when everyone was shit faced.

A wonderful black market will open up for the gangsters and pot dealers who are out of work since pot and gambling were legalized.

Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Petty Tyrant on October 02, 2015, 09:24:11 PM
GO

Psychoactive prescription drugs are preventing a lot of people doing things like this,  they need to be kept sedated. OTOH theres a problem with the FDA approval process being corrupted by pharmacos with blatant conflicts of interest and this is causing newer drugs with worse side effects in too many people not being acknowledged. Doctors are taught to interpret the statistics by the pharmacos as if they need that. What happens when people  feel worse not better is the dose is increased because most doctors believe the glossy advertising that the prescription pad is the solution to everything. I think only about half of patients or even less respond positively to pychotropic meds,  but are then going to take them the rest of their life. Few stop once they  start. For most of them they cant cope without the meds and will be a nightmare to be around. Some might attack and even kill the people with them, but usually will present for help themself or their family will call 911.

For the ones feeling worse on medication which  is probably 20%, (and about 30% just lethargic and flat with no real change in mood) a few are not just suicidal but homicidal and occasionally kill someone,  but the incidence is not considered statistically  significant. To me it isnt important that only one mother with PND drowns her  baby in a city or state in a year as an adverse reaction to an antidepressant,  but the overall proportion of people not improving or feeling worse cam not be denied as statistically insignificant. This goes on anyway and u already  know why.

Dont  use quote to reply to this post as i plan to  delete it tomorrow,  thanks.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: g on October 03, 2015, 03:02:47 AM
I got it Uncle. Thanks

Yes, drugs can go either way with some individuals. I have no expertise in the matter at all, just pointed out that many who study these people think they have been crazed by drugs and live in a world of fantasy and demons and such from them. As usual you point out the fact they are very helpful to many folks. Just tryng to point out that guns aren't their problem, it's them and their messed up heads.

They would most likely lob hand grenades into a group, or molotov cocktails, sticks of dynamite, drive a truck into a crowd at a beach if I remember correctly one looney did a while back. They are the problem, not the weapon they choose is my point.

I get weary of people trying to take my rights away from me, every time one of the crazies goes berserk. Even though I have never owned a weapon, or have any plans to do so currently. Our rights under our constitution are precious and are taken from us by an out of control government at every opportunity.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on October 03, 2015, 06:27:10 AM
I got it Uncle. Thanks

Yes, drugs can go either way with some individuals.

"Guns don't kill people.  Shrinks prescribing Pharmaceutical anti-depressants kill people."

LOL.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Petty Tyrant on October 03, 2015, 09:38:35 AM
In 2009 the warnings went onto/into the SSRI boxes in us, eu, uk, japan, canada and oz after a meta analysis turned up a figure of about125 in 100 thousand cases which meant that the "less than one in a thousand" excuse no longer applied.

What im saying is that the number of cases where someone someone actually attempts a homicidal act vs about 30% of people who feel better using it isnt the issue. The issue is the number who experience homicidal ideation and dont act, suicidal ideation, hostility and agression, and just feel worse. Then theres tremor, tachycardia, rashes, even blurred vision and other side effects of both using and withdrawing from the drugs. The pharmacos are covered by calling it a SMALL NUMBER and advising that there should be close monitoring. The close monitoring is not happening most of the time because of the idea its a small number, it isnt.

Add the fact that it is recognised that children should not be prescribed ssri due to these side effects and that warning is more definitive. However the brain of an 18 to 24 yo male is still in important ways not fully developed and plastic, also more impulsive, but you dont see any caution applied there.

Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on October 03, 2015, 09:55:50 AM
In 2009 the warnings went onto/into the SSRI boxes in us, eu, uk, japan, canada and oz after a meta analysis turned up a figure of about125 in 100 thousand cases which meant that the "less than one in a thousand" excuse no longer applied.

What im saying is that the number of cases where someone someone actually attempts a homicidal act vs about 30% of people who feel better using it isnt the issue. The issue is the number who experience homicidal ideation and dont act, suicidal ideation, hostility and agression, and just feel worse. Then theres tremor, tachycardia, rashes, even blurred vision and other side effects of both using and withdrawing from the drugs. The pharmacos are covered by calling it a SMALL NUMBER and advising that there should be close monitoring. The close monitoring is not happening most of the time because of the idea its a small number, it isnt.

Add the fact that it is recognised that children should not be prescribed ssri due to these side effects and that warning is more definitive. However the brain of an 18 to 24 yo male is still in important ways not fully developed and plastic, also more impulsive, but you dont see any caution applied there.

The bottom line here is you cannot medicate Unhappy People out of their Unhappiness if the Unhappiness has a real life cause to it.  Life just SUCKS for a lot of people now, so they manifest it with violent actions.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: g on October 03, 2015, 10:10:50 AM
Quote
The bottom line here is you cannot medicate Unhappy People out of their Unhappiness if the Unhappiness has a real life cause to it.  Life just SUCKS for a lot of people now, so they manifest it with violent actions.

Actually as I think of the world population and the over 300 million people in our country alone, it's amazing there isn't more of it.

Especially when you consider the economic situation, the uber rich flaunting their wealth, and all the friggin drugs and booze out there.

Just saying.   :-\
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on October 03, 2015, 11:19:24 AM
Quote
The bottom line here is you cannot medicate Unhappy People out of their Unhappiness if the Unhappiness has a real life cause to it.  Life just SUCKS for a lot of people now, so they manifest it with violent actions.

Actually as I think of the world population and the over 300 million people in our country alone, it's amazing there isn't more of it.

Especially when you consider the economic situation, the uber rich flaunting their wealth, and all the friggin drugs and booze out there.

Just saying.   :-\

Have Patience.  There is more coming to a theater near you.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on October 03, 2015, 11:32:52 AM
It's interesting to consider whether the shooter phenomenon has more to do with the rise in autism, the rise in cognitive dissonance among people who can't access the good life they see on TV, or social isolation due to the breakdowns in family and community life. I expect all of those play.

I have taken care of many, many autistic kids in my work, and they do present an enigma. They seem to live in another reality of their own making, and to them it's just as valid as what we call the real world. But most of the ones I have know are not what I would consider likely to act out mass murder. They don't tend to be functional enough to plan and carry out that kind of attack.

And the lesser affected ones, the spectrum kids, mostly seem to live in their own heads and not care much about what's going on on a societal level.

Whereas schizophrenics are perfectly capable of doing anything their voices tell them to do...just sayin.

Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Petty Tyrant on October 03, 2015, 03:20:20 PM
Eddie, I dont think autism is a factor in a massacre  except indirectly as a contributor in 3 ways...

1 social exclusion. He may really want to fit in but cant. That was Rogers reason and a big reason in the usual profile too. I watched about 10 minutes of his home made videos and theres an instance hes wandering around a park obsessing about himself that he used to go there as a child then tries to have a conversation with a young woman with a dog.. now that should be ok .. use the dog as a topic to start talking and get the  girls number etc,  But u see it just goes awkward and creepy and hence all the other obsessing about being good looking and well dressed and having a new bmw but the girls going out with others. Adam Lanza we dont know if not being socially functional bothered him because for the  profoundly autistic it doesnt seem to borher them at all. Harper-Mercer i think it probably did bother him as he had profiles on one of those social media pages and a dating site but clearly had no clue what was appropriate to leave out.

2. A fixation/obsession. Can be anything, usually something introduced. Can sometimes change to something else but not often, wheras with aspergers its more like an intense interest in a subject or thing that can come and go when its run its course and something new comes along.

Two permanent fixations that dont threaten anyone else i can think of are water and audio cassettes. Thre was a boy who had a precocious memory for maps and directions but was happier than a pig in poop if he could go for a swim for a reward or pour water from one cup to another etc. Another kid less profound and in school was obsessed with audio cassettes, the old ones you had to rewind and fast forward. He spent his time in class drawing "tapeys" that were audio cassettes with arms and legs and making up storeys about them involving "tape recorder". He couldnt stay on topic of anything else for long.

Other fixations could lead to danger to others. There was a 17 year old who had a fixation on sex since several years prior happened to see some pornography, this was very unfortunate. If an obsession is with shooting as we know with Adam Lanza his mother had a lot of weapons and took him shooting,  or Harper-Mercer was obsessed with the IRA then taken to the extreme someone can get killed.

3. Not registering emotions/expressions, where the  mildly affected dont recognise the meaning of a small smirk and the fully autistic dont recognise a broad smile but do understand if explained. That could make the whole thing seem like a game and not real,  but if they are fully unable to relate they probably also can hardly look after themself and dont go anywhere unfamiliar anyway.
Title: How Mass Shooters Get Their Guns
Post by: RE on October 05, 2015, 01:11:28 AM
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/10/how_roseburg_newtown_and_other_mass_shooters_got_their_guns.html (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/10/how_roseburg_newtown_and_other_mass_shooters_got_their_guns.html)

(http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/10/guns/151002_POL_guns-from-mass-shootings.jpg.CROP.promo-xlarge2.jpg)
Title: Attacker stabs five on California university campus
Post by: RE on November 04, 2015, 11:38:07 PM
I'm waiting now for a College Campus Chainsaw Massacre.

(http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/304/files/2015/08/680136-texas_chainsaw_massacre_2867.jpg)

RE

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/11/4/attacker-stabs-five-on-california-university-campus.html (http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/11/4/attacker-stabs-five-on-california-university-campus.html)

Attacker stabs five on California university campus


Police shoot and kill student at University of California, Merced, after he stabbed five people on campus
November 4, 2015 4:15PM ET

A student stabbed and wounded five people as classes got underway at a rural university campus in central California before police shot and killed him, authorities said Wednesday.

All those attacked at the University of California, Merced, were conscious when paramedics reached them, Assistant Vice Chancellor Patti Waid said. Two victims were taken by helicopter to hospitals, but their conditions were not immediately known, officials said.

The three others had injuries that were minor enough that they could be treated on campus, Waid said. Campus officials say some, but not all, of the victims are students.

They said the assailant was a student but had not confirmed his identity or provided a motive for the attack. Officials said they were still working out a timeline of events leading up to the stabbings, and it wasn't clear how the attack played out.

University senior Phil Coba, a student government representative, said numerous students told him that the stabbings started inside a classroom and continued outside before campus police shot and killed the attacker.

Authorities have not confirmed those accounts and have said the attack occurred outside a building as students went in to class shortly after 8 a.m.

Student Alex Lopez was heading to class when he realized something was wrong on campus.

"I was listening to a podcast, and there was a break in talking, and I just hear a gunshot," he said.

He said police and first responders flooded the scene.

"You see this stuff all over the news and stuff and you see it happen to all these other schools," but you don't expect it to happen at your school, said Lopez, 21.

The school, surrounded largely by farmland, was mostly deserted Wednesday afternoon. More than 6,600 students are enrolled at the university about 120 miles south of Sacramento in the farm-rich San Joaquin Valley.

The campus in the city of Merced opened a decade ago and is the newest college in the University of California system.

It was erected in the state's farm belt in response to the burgeoning enrollment in the nine other University of California campuses. Regents also felt the mainly agricultural region was unrepresented by higher education.

The Associated Press

Title: Re: Attacker stabs five on California university campus
Post by: MKing on November 05, 2015, 01:36:40 PM
I'm waiting now for a College Campus Chainsaw Massacre.

(http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/304/files/2015/08/680136-texas_chainsaw_massacre_2867.jpg)

RE

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/11/4/attacker-stabs-five-on-california-university-campus.html (http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/11/4/attacker-stabs-five-on-california-university-campus.html)

Attacker stabs five on California university campus


Police shoot and kill student at University of California, Merced, after he stabbed five people on campus
November 4, 2015 4:15PM ET


So now the legislatively required "no one will defend themselves here" hunting preserves have attracted the attention of just general kooks. Great.
Title: Mass shootings by the numbers: More than 350 in 2015
Post by: RE on December 04, 2015, 02:43:27 PM
Told you it was a weekly event now.  You heard it hear first.

There is now a website Shooting Tracker (http://www.shootingtracker.com/) to keep you up to date.  ::)

RE

http://america.aljazeera.com/multimedia/2015/12/gun-violence-by-the-numbers-2015-mass-shootings.html (http://america.aljazeera.com/multimedia/2015/12/gun-violence-by-the-numbers-2015-mass-shootings.html)

Mass shootings by the numbers: More than 350 in 2015

 by Ehab Zahriyeh @EhabZ December 4, 2015 8:00AM ET

If it seems there has been a mass shooting in the US nearly every week this year, that’s because it’s true

Topics:
    Gun Violence
    California
    U.S.

A couple’s gun rampage in San Bernardino, California, on Dec. 2 that left 14 dead came less than a week after a lone shooter at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado killed three.

If it seems like a mass shooting is happening nearly every week in the United States, that's because it's true.

More than 350 mass shootings have occurred in the United States so far in 2015.

Only during one week this year — April 8 to April 15 — has there been no mass shooting, according to Shooting Tracker, an organization that, in the absence of a federal gun violence database, tracks mass shootings through reports in local media.

Defining a mass shooting as an event in which at least four people are shot, there have now been 353 this year.

(http://america.aljazeera.com/content/ajam/multimedia/2015/12/gun-violence-by-the-numbers-2015-mass-shootings/jcr:content/mainpar/adaptiveimage/src.adapt.960.high.mass-shootings-oneyear-01.1449257280164.jpg)



All told, mass shootings this year have led to 462 deaths.

Besides the rampage in San Bernardino — which is the deadliest single shooting incident in the U.S. since 2012 — three other incidents in 2015 resulted in nine or more deaths: a Roseburg, Oregon shooting on Oct. 1; a Charleston, South Carolina shooting on June 17; and a Waco, Texas shooting on May 17.

Unlike these multiple-fatality incidents, most of the 353 mass shootings reported by Shooting Tracker killed either one person or none: 147 of the incidents resulted in no deaths and 104 in one person dying. Eight mass shootings — including the one in San Bernardino — killed more than five people.

(http://america.aljazeera.com/content/ajam/multimedia/2015/12/gun-violence-by-the-numbers-2015-mass-shootings/jcr:content/mainpar/adaptiveimage_0/src.adapt.960.high.Mass_SHOOTINGS_2015_map_cities_7_2.1449257280164.jpg)



Most mass shootings in the U.S. occur in big cities with high rates of poverty and rampant gun- or gang-related violence.

These events typically get much less media attention than mass shootings in smaller towns or suburban areas or that appear unrelated to gangs or other criminal activity.

Of the 17 areas that have had four or more mass shootings this year — for a total of 87 between them — all are cities with populations of more than 200,000. Six of the 17 cities are big, with more than 2 million residents.

Chicago this year has the highest number of reported mass shootings — 14, resulting in a total of 10 deaths. These are one part of the sky-high rate of gun violence in the city, which has seen gun arrests increase by 22 percent this year and a total of 2,200 shootings amid 6,500 seizures of illegal guns.

Baltimore, which comes second in the number of reported mass shootings this year, with 10 incidents resulting in eight deaths, has a similar stark problem with gun violence. The city this year experienced one of its deadliest summers on record and is on pace to have more than 300 homicides, the most in the city since 1999.

Houston has had five mass shootings this year, but the highest number of deaths from such incidents — 13. That is second only to San Bernardino.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: g on December 04, 2015, 03:38:23 PM
Quote
Told you it was a weekly event now.  You heard it hear first.

Was absolutely dumbfounded by this posting. Had no idea.

Read it twice to make sure it was true, utterly amazing.  :o :icon_scratch:
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: MKing on December 04, 2015, 03:45:27 PM
I think someone is getting creative with the definition of "mass".

Too bad those folks in California were exercising their rights appropriately, I'm guessing these particular religious fruit loops might have had it a little rougher.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/12/04/man-exercising-his-right-openly-carry-rifle-all-around-ohio-town/76781666/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/12/04/man-exercising-his-right-openly-carry-rifle-all-around-ohio-town/76781666/)
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on December 04, 2015, 04:10:49 PM
The May 17 Waco shooting is bogus, because nobody knows yet how many of the nine people killed were shot by cops.

That was the so-called Twin Peaks motorcycle gang shoot-out, where police arrested 170 people and held them with their bonds set so absurdly high that most of them were in jail for months...and then failed to indicte a single one of them. Many innocent people went to jail, lost their jobs, etc.

Most of those killed were probably shot by cops. It was not a mass shooter incident at all in my book. Shouldn't be in the tally.  I wonder how many others on the website are like that.

I expect that the McClellan County Sheriff's Office will be sued into perpetuity and end up looking really stupid before it's done.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on December 04, 2015, 08:14:24 PM
The May 17 Waco shooting is bogus, because nobody knows yet how many of the nine people killed were shot by cops.

That was the so-called Twin Peaks motorcycle gang shoot-out, where police arrested 170 people and held them with their bonds set so absurdly high that most of them were in jail for months...and then failed to indicte a single one of them. Many innocent people went to jail, lost their jobs, etc.

Most of those killed were probably shot by cops. It was not a mass shooter incident at all in my book. Shouldn't be in the tally.  I wonder how many others on the website are like that.

I expect that the McClellan County Sheriff's Office will be sued into perpetuity and end up looking really stupid before it's done.

I don't think it really matters if the mass shooting was Killed by Psycho, Killed by Religious Fanatic or Killed by Cop.  If there are lots of dead people with bullets in them, that is a mass shooting event.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: K-Dog on December 05, 2015, 09:11:41 PM
Plenty of ammunition (forgive the pun) for the FSoA propaganda machine to shoot the American psyche with double rounds of fear.  It seems with our population size and the ubiquity of American guns we have whack jobs expressing frustration by gun trigger all the time.  Media can ignore it as they often do or they can whip up heart pounding public excitement reporting shootings in a frenzy of drama.  It all depends on the daily memo from their puppet masters.

The orchestra of the Zeitgeist can be clearly heard.  But who tells them what music to play.  Is there more we don't know?  The San Bernardino tragedy is exactly what an 'engender American hatred for Moslems' agenda would want.  Too good to be true from that point of view.  Is there more we don't know?  Was more than sugar put into the shooters coffee?  What reality were they spoon fed on their phones?

Or are they just crazy weeds in the human garden who never should have been born.  Will we ever know?  Can we ever know?  The power to electronically control the reality of both the masses and individuals within the body of the masses is here.  Jay Gould a notorious robber baron infamously said more than a hundred years ago:

“I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other half.”

He believed he had that much power,  history shows that he did.  He had money and now with electronic tentacles reaching into all lives, the power of the powerful is amplified a hundred times.  Perhaps there is irony in Gould's quote for the message sent by mass media grooms copycat whack jobs under an incessant reporting of people now getting fifteen minutes of fame by shooting the place up.

Frustrated, then you too can have your fifteen minutes.  In the mind of some crazies somewhere this thought must lurk.  Under the right circumstances the thought cultivates and grows.

News reports, advertisements sell products, and public attitudes are shaped.  The circle goes around and the orchestra of the Zeitgeist is clearly heard.




Title: There Been More Mass Shootings Under Obama than the Four Prior Combined
Post by: g on December 06, 2015, 04:01:20 AM
Why Have There Been More Mass Shootings Under Obama than the Four Previous Presidents Combined?

     We live in a world of short-term memories and long-term memory deficiencies. If the 24-hour news cycle was any indication, Americans appear to be bouncing from one catastrophic mass shooting to the next, with hardly any breathing room. Like this is just a regular occurrence America has learned to endure because… guns. It’s the prevalence of firearms in the hands of the people, the anti-gunners say. Calls to limit, rewrite, redefine, or outright dispose of the 2nd Amendment are rampant.

But no one is looking at the data. If they did, they would realize something is really, really, really wrong here.

No, there haven’t always been so many mass shootings. It hasn’t always been this way. Mass shootings have skyrocketed in this country just in the last seven years under President Obama.

The following was compiled using the database over at Mother Jones on mass shootings in the U.S. from 1982—2015, up to and including the shooting at Umpqua Community College in Oregon on October 1st, 2015. It also includes the Wikipedia lists for mass shootings in the United States by year and postal killings in the U.S.

The following analysis considers the FBI’s definition of a mass murder, which is defined as “a number of murders (four or more) occurring during the same incident, with no distinctive time period between the murders”.

When all incidents where four or more people were shot in a single event are broken out by president going back to Reagan (considering the database only stretches back to 1982), there just so happens to have been a startling increase in mass shootings since Obama, the most pro-gun control president America has had in modern history, took office.

    Mass Shootings under the Last Five Presidents

    Ronald Reagan: 1981-1989 (8 years) 11 mass shootings
    Incidents with 8 or more deaths = 5

    George H. W. Bush: 1989-1993 (4 years) 12 mass murders
    Incidents with 8 or more deaths = 3

    Bill Clinton: 1993-2001 (8 years) 23 mass murders
    Incidents with 8 or more deaths = 4

    George W. Bush: 2001-2009 (8 years) 20 mass murders
    Incidents with 8 or more deaths = 5

    Barrack H. Obama: 2009-2015 (in 7th year) 162 mass murders
    Incidents with 8 or more deaths = 18

Look at the difference between all other presidents and Barack Obama.

What that looks like on a chart:

                                             (http://truthstreammedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/msbypres.jpg)

Notice anything here? We’re talking about a more than six-fold increase from the number of mass shootings in the eight years Bush Jr. was president compared to the last seven years under Obama, and his 2nd term isn’t even up yet!

Not only that, but the number of mass shootings where the shooter killed eight or more people has also increased rather significantly:

                                             
                                            (http://truthstreammedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/msbypres8.jpg)


What is going on here?

Obviously this isn’t so easily simplified as more guns in the hands of more crazy people, the way the media likes to spin it. We have more gun laws now than ever before. Less types of guns are legally available to the average citizen than ever before. We also have more “gun-free zones,” zones where, just by the way, most of these shootings happen (because mass shooters do not follow laws or care about zones, obviously). So that’s not it.

We have debated whether or not antidepressant medications are playing a role in these events. Even a cursory glance at the SSRI stories school shootings database would suggest there is some substantial evidence behind this theory. We know that many of these mass shooters were either on psychotropic medications at the time of the shooting, or withdrawing from them.

However, Prozac was approved for use in the United States back in 1987. Antidepressant medications have been around and in widespread use in America for decades now. That factor alone cannot entirely explain all these mass shootings recently.

Not to mention that five out of the 12 deadliest mass shootings in American history have happened not just since Barack Obama became president, but just under his first term as president alone. That’s nearly half.

Something else is going on here.

So… what is it?

After the controversial Sandy Hook shooting, Obama passed 23 gun control executive orders. He continually says wants to do more and he’s frustrated with how limited his powers as mere president are. He continually mentions wishing America’s gun control mirrored that of the UK and Australia, two countries that passed strict, sweeping gun bans following what many have called single mass shooting false flag events which happened just weeks apart in March and April 1996.

Speaking of Australia’s gun control laws after the suspicious Charleston shooting, Obama said:

    “It was just so shocking the entire country said, ‘Well, we’re going to completely change our gun laws’, and they did. And it hasn’t happened since,” Obama said, discussing the shooting deaths of nine people at a historic black church in Charleston last week.

The suspicious April 1999 mass shooting at Columbine High School didn’t accomplish nearly the same gun control implementation here in America, although it did happen under another highly pro-gun control president, Bill Clinton. Perhaps one false flag just isn’t enough in a country that has been built upon a Constitution with a Bill of Rights and a 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms. Perhaps it can only be killed death-by-a-thousand-cuts style.

Now Obama says gun control will be his #1 top issue of focus for the last year of his final term as president.

He says his biggest frustration has been his inability to pass more gun control legislation.

He condemns these “routine” events and calls for more gun control each time another one happens. After the recent Planned Parenthood shooting, he said, “we can’t let this become the new normal… enough is enough.”

But when did it become the new normal? While the 2nd Amendment continues to be attacked each and every time another mass shooting occurs, just realize something: these events were never this “routine” until Obama became president.

http://truthstreammedia.com/2015/12/02/why-have-there-been-more-mass-shootings-under-obama-than-the-four-previous-presidents-combined/ (http://truthstreammedia.com/2015/12/02/why-have-there-been-more-mass-shootings-under-obama-than-the-four-previous-presidents-combined/) :icon_study:

Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on December 06, 2015, 10:17:39 AM
I've been considering this myself. Why are there more and more shooters coming out of the woodwork now everywhere you look?

Could be what the article is implying, which (as I understand this author to mean) that it's some kind of deliberate government conspiracy to take away our self-defense rights. But I really doubt it, for several reasons. The biggest reason is that I don't think the government is good enough technically to brainwash that many people, from disparate backgrounds and going off for different reasons (in their own minds, anyway) and then keep the whole thing secret. The shooters who aren't killed end up in the criminal justice system, and they are examined under a behavioral microscope. If it was straight-up brainwashing, it would be revealed.

I think it's more likely that we're seeing the results of collapse played out in the psyches of a variety of fucked up individuals, all of whom are (a) psychologically damaged people, (b) under the influence of some kind of erroneous bullshit (having bought into some false ideology whether it be racism, religious zealotry, or even some kind of Thelma and Louise romanticizing of "going out with a statement.".)

We have these norms, mores, societal memes, drilled into us by two generations of bad meta-programming through mass media. They are demonstrably false now, and the average person goes through life as a series of increasing disappointments and constant struggle to make it in a world that offers less and less while insisting one should be getting more and more.

To me that's a recipe for flipping out.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: K-Dog on December 06, 2015, 03:47:35 PM
I agree with your recipes for flipping out but I don't agree about this.  I have seen what they can do.

The biggest reason is that I don't think the government is good enough technically to brainwash that many people, from disparate backgrounds and going off for different reasons (in their own minds, anyway) and then keep the whole thing secret.

Methinks you do not appreciate the power of selectively re-targeting mass media through the phone and internet at carefully selected targeted individuals.  Disparate backgrounds is hardly an obstacle when one has the biggest database in the world.  One can pick and choose.  They can prune unpromising experiments while cultivating branches of investigation likely to bear fruit with an essentially infinite budget. 

How do you know that the news articles you see posted at the diner are the same ones I see and that upstream from us one of us is not being manipulated.  They control the horizontal and the vertical of our digital experience far more than is commonly suspected and 'they' most certainly do exist.

The beauty of manipulation through internet and phone is the privacy of the experience.  Those targeted are unaware of what is going on.  When they view a chunk of programming media they don't know it.  Even if they did there is no way to prove it.  Digital text and images evaporate as soon as the power goes out.  The strings of the puppet masters vanish.

Find the right person with an agenda and a madman can easily be produced and it will all be done in complete secrecy.  Full surveillance of a targeted individual is a powerful thing.  The feedback surveillance gives results in total control.  'Accidental' meetings can be arranged.

societal memes, drilled into us by two generations of bad meta-programming

An agency that experimented with LSD two generations ago as a means of controlling people will know exactly what buttons to push.  Three years worth of work on a particular group of targeted individuals can result in a Paris bombing tragedy.  Perhaps a Boston bombing horror might only take a couple of years of determined work.  It is not inconceivable that this could be done by the same government which invaded Grenada and Panama for covert reasons of which the public is still oblivious.  Death does not bother them.

The database is rife with subjects to be played.  The technology is there.  The motivation is there.  The funding is there.  The lack of ethics is there.  I believe it is being done because I have seen what they can do and I once was told something that my ears should never have heard.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on December 06, 2015, 04:08:56 PM
Have you tried gluing a hair across the door jamb to make sure your room isn't being searched while you're out?

Just kidding. I don't doubt the part about the intent or the lack of ethics. You're probably right. I'm just making guesses.

Not sure LSD was ever really that good at doing the kind of thing you're talking about though. My experience there was that once you learned to maintain while you were tripping, it actually made you fairly resistant to any kind of mental weirdness. Maybe that should be filed under "only the strong survive", dunno.  Other drugs are better at inducing psychotic behavior. PCP comes to mind. Or a  few days of being awake 24/7 on meth.

(I was a teenage psychonaut.)
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: g on December 06, 2015, 04:22:58 PM
Quote
Methinks you do not appreciate the power of selectively re-targeting mass media through the phone and internet at carefully selected targeted individuals.  Disparate backgrounds is hardly an obstacle when one has the biggest database in the world.  One can pick and choose.  They can prune unpromising experiments while cultivating branches of investigation likely to bear fruit with an essentially infinite budget.
 

Google and Facebook. to name just a few have been doing this for years.

There is little doubt in my mind we have all been graded and placed into groups regarding danger, intelligence, awareness, etc.

It's the reason Paris was surely FF.

Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: g on December 06, 2015, 04:33:12 PM
Quote
Find the right person with an agenda and a madman can easily be produced and it will all be done in complete secrecy.
Holmes the perfect example of such, need not have to have an agenda though IMO. Super advanced hypnosis is my bet, but who knows.  :dontknow:
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: MKing on December 06, 2015, 04:37:12 PM
Have you tried gluing a hair across the door jamb to make sure your room isn't being searched while you're out?

Oh, I think K-Dog has moved past that point.

(http://www.founditemclothing.com/itgoesto11/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/wnd_639239915b342f9a3e15512c0788f314.jpg)

Quote from: Eddie
My experience there was that once you learned to maintain while you were tripping, it actually made you fairly resistant to any kind of mental weirdness.

My experience is that dopers are fun to watch, but best avoided.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: K-Dog on December 06, 2015, 09:54:14 PM
Have you tried gluing a hair across the door jamb to make sure your room isn't being searched while you're out?

Think how easy it would be to use a phone or laptop and make someone paranoid enough to use hairs across door jambs.  A unsuspecting subject could be made that paranoid within hours.  Simply rewinding a Netlflix video remotely such as "Trudell" to the part where the FBI kills his family and then play with the remote control by jumping back and forth so the subject (targeted individual) can't watch the video that night and knows his video is being remotely controlled will do the trick.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41K1N8gddhL.jpg)

If the subject talks to anyone about it they will be offered a tinfoil hat.

(http://blurbrain.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Tin_Foil_Hat_Dog_5.jpg)

They try and notify media and are told to send an email but strange behavior such as having sent an email message and seen it immediately deleted before their eyes tells them email can't be trusted.  They want to report on illegal government activity but that requires an email and their email accounts are all being watched and controlled by the government.  A situation that can be referred to as 'no win'.

Think how easy it would be to make someone paranoid.  There is really nothing to it and it can be done to anyone.

The subject will spend some time wanting to crawl out of his skin, guaranteed.  And that can be just the beginning of fun and games as our now disturbed and crazed subject goes to Google to get answers.  Answers the controlling mother ship wants the subject to see.  Fake websites and hand picked news stories fill search results on their screen.

Enter a few staged actors for specially crafted vignettes.  Dump a huge pile of leaves on the targeted individuals car hood to let them know someone is watching.

It would be enough to make an F.B.I. agent cum in his pants and I think some have.

The only danger is if the hand is overplayed and our subject being exceptionally smart figures out what is going on.  Then they will laugh at tinfoil hat jokes and become resistant to control.  They might even start writing a lot.

Ha Ha

I started out to make a simple point of how easy it would be to make someone paranoid but the truth is once targeted, a targeted individual is going to get the royal treatment.  It is like winning the lotto.  They are originally targeted for a reason.  A serious reason.  Perhaps they have discovered that Government Agents are operating on blogs such as this to influence public opinion.  Pay checks are involved.  Tax forms will be reviewed and credit cards cancelled before this disease runs its course.

Making someone paranoid would be a way to keep a potential whistle-blower in line.  Cultivation of a domestic terrorist would be done differently and would take a bit longer.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on December 06, 2015, 10:07:18 PM
Think how easy it would be to make someone paranoid.  There is really nothing to it and it can be done to anyone.

Not to me!  LOL.

The trick here is to not worry about getting spied on.  Worst case scenario the NSA shows up at the digs and whisks me off to GITMO.  If that happens, I win.  I got them worried enough they had to get rid of me.  So far, I have not been that successful though.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: K-Dog on December 06, 2015, 11:38:17 PM
Think how easy it would be to make someone paranoid.  There is really nothing to it and it can be done to anyone.

Not to me!  LOL.

The trick here is to not worry about getting spied on.  Worst case scenario the NSA shows up at the digs and whisks me off to GITMO.  If that happens, I win.  I got them worried enough they had to get rid of me.  So far, I have not been that successful though.

RE

That is the correct adjustment but it can take a while to get there.  The shock of the revelation of this layer of reality can knock one off kilter.

Worst case is not GITMO I'm sure.  Worst case is being whisked off to some country that is very small and hard to pronounce.  But getting the white jet is very high on the getting them worried list.  An expensive flight for sure.  If that happens do enjoy the flight because where you might be going 'water boarding' is considered child’s play.  Fortunately I don't think either of us rate high enough on that list.

May your un-success in being whisked off continue and your health be good.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on December 06, 2015, 11:54:30 PM
Think how easy it would be to make someone paranoid.  There is really nothing to it and it can be done to anyone.

Not to me!  LOL.

The trick here is to not worry about getting spied on.  Worst case scenario the NSA shows up at the digs and whisks me off to GITMO.  If that happens, I win.  I got them worried enough they had to get rid of me.  So far, I have not been that successful though.

RE

That is the correct adjustment but it can take a while to get there.  The shock of the revelation of this layer of reality can knock one off kilter.

Worst case is not GITMO I'm sure.  Worst case is being whisked off to some country that is very small and hard to pronounce.  But getting the white jet is very high on the getting them worried list.  An expensive flight for sure.  If that happens do enjoy the flight because where you might be going 'water boarding' is considered child’s play.  Fortunately I don't think either of us rate high enough on that list.

May your un-success in being whisked off continue and your health be good.

One of the great advantages to having a broken neck is you don't feel much in the way of pain.  :icon_sunny:  All your sensations are quite dulled.

RE
Title: 6 dead in Kalamazoo County shooting spree; gunman still at large
Post by: RE on February 20, 2016, 11:16:36 PM
This one is still on the loose.

RE

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/21/us/michigan-kalamazoo-county-shooting-spree/ (http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/21/us/michigan-kalamazoo-county-shooting-spree/)

6 dead in Kalamazoo County shooting spree; gunman still at large

By Joe Sutton and Joshua Berlinger, CNN

Updated 1:37 AM ET, Sun February 21, 2016
Police: 6 dead in random shootings in Michigan

Police: 6 dead in random shootings in Michigan 02:22
Story highlights

    9 people were shot; 6 of them are dead, authorities say
    Police are looking for a white man in his 50s driving a Chevrolet HHR
    There were shootings at 3 locations, police say

(CNN)[Breaking news update, posted at 1:36 a.m. ET]

Police have a "strong suspect" in custody in relation to a shooting spree Saturday in Kalamazoo County, Michigan, Kalamazoo city Public Safety Chief Jeffrey Hadley told CNN affiliate WWMT.

Six people were killed in the incident.

[Previous story, posted at 1:29 a.m. ET]

(CNN) -- At least six people were killed during a shooting spree Kalamazoo County, Michigan, county Undersheriff Paul Matyas told CNN.

A total of nine people were shot in three locations Saturday, authorities said. Two people are in critical condition, and one is in serious condition.

"What it looks like is we have someone just driving around, finding people and shooting them dead in their tracks," Matyas told CNN affiliate WOOD-TV.

The first shooting occurred at about 6 p.m. (7 p.m. ET), when a woman was shot four times in an apartment complex parking lot, Matyas told CNN. She is in serious condition.

Shortly after 10 p.m. local time, three people were shot a car dealership, Matyas said. Two of the three were killed.

"At this point we believe [the two killed] were just here looking at a vehicle," Kalamazoo Public Safety Chief Jeff Hadley told CNN affiliate WWMT.

Then four people in two cars were shot outside a Cracker Barrel restaurant a few miles away from the dealership. Three of them were killed; the fourth, a teenager, is in critical condition, authorities said.

All three shooting incidents appear to be related, authorities say.

"We're asking everyone to be very vigilant," Michigan State Police Lt. Dale Hinz told WWMT.

Police say the suspect, believed to be a white man in his 50s, is still at large. They are looking for a dark blue or silver Chevrolet HHR.
Title: Indian man kills 14 relatives, hangs self, mass killing in India
Post by: RE on February 28, 2016, 05:03:39 PM
OK, this is a "Stabber", not a "Shooter".

Next up: Knife Control!

RE

http://newdaypost.com/indian-police-man-fatally-stabs-14-relatives-hangs-self-mass-killing-india-0193981 (http://newdaypost.com/indian-police-man-fatally-stabs-14-relatives-hangs-self-mass-killing-india-0193981)


Indian man kills 14 relatives, hangs self, mass killing in India
by Hakan Sel
February 28, 2016
Global News

(http://newdaypost.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Indian-man-stabs-14-family-members-to-death-hangs-self.jpg)

New Delphi Indian Police – A man in western India fatally stabbed 14 members of his family, including seven children, early Sunday before hanging himself, police said.

Hasnain Warekar, 35, went on his overnight killing spree following a Saturday evening family gathering at his home, said Gajanan Laxman Kabdule, a spokesman for the police in the city of Thane, located outside of Mumbai. He said a motive was not known.

Warekar’s extended family — three sisters, their children and his parents — were among those who apparently had gotten together for dinner, Kabdule said. Warekar’s wife and two young daughters were also in the house and were among those killed.

The only survivor of the attack was a sister who was wounded, the officer said, adding that she was in a hospital and in “a state of shock.”

Kabdule said that it appeared that Warekar began his stabbing spree between 1 a.m. and 2 a.m., after everyone had gone to bed.

(http://newdaypost.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Indian-man-stabs-14-family-members-to-death-hangs-self.jpg)
Indian police and forensic experts leave a house where a 35-year-old man was suspected of murdering 14 family members before hanging himself
The victims’ bodies were discovered early Sunday morning.

Kabdule said the reason for the killings was not immediately clear. The Press Trust of India news agency reported that a family dispute over property was behind the attacks.

The bodies were sent to a Thane hospital for autopsies.

Indian Police Man Fatally Stabs 14 Relatives, Hangs Self Mass Killing in India 2

Thirty five year-old Hasnin Warekar killed his parents and several of his sisters and their children at the family home shortly after midnight in the city of Thane, about 27 kms (16.8 miles) north of Mumbai, police spokesman Gajanan Kabdule said.

One of Warekar’s sisters survived the attack, and is being treated for her injuries in hospital.

“He used a big knife. He killed his parents, his sisters and his sisters’ children. He slit their throats,” Kabdule told Reuters.

Police are investigating the possibility that a property dispute lay behind the massacre, although a motive is yet to be established, he said.

Local media reported that Warekar had laced his family’s food with a sedative before slaughtering them, but Kabdule said this was unconfirmed as samples taken from the house were still being analysed.

Warekar is believed to have carried out the murders shortly after midnight after a family gathering on Saturday evening.

Police said his motive was unclear, although local media claimed a family dispute over property was behind the attacks.

Ashutosh Dumbre, joint commissioner of Thane police, told the Indian Express newspaper: “Prima facie evidence suggests that the accused bolted all the doors of the house and murdered his family while they were asleep with a knife that we found near his body.”

The bodies have been sent to a Thane hospital for post-mortem examinations.
Title: Moscow ‘child beheading’: What we know about the ‘woman in black’
Post by: RE on February 29, 2016, 01:15:41 PM
The stories get gruesomer and gruesomer.

Video on RT.

RE

https://www.rt.com/news/334013-moscow-woman-severed-head/ (https://www.rt.com/news/334013-moscow-woman-severed-head/)

Moscow ‘child beheading’: What we know about the ‘woman in black’
Published time: 29 Feb, 2016 18:31
Edited time: 29 Feb, 2016 18:59

(https://cdn.rt.com/files/2016.02/original/56d4838bc461889c198b45aa.jpg)

Moscow is in a state of shock after a woman dressed in black was shown walking around near a metro station with a ‘child’s severed head’ in her hand and shouting “I am a terrorist.” Here is what’s known so far about the horrific incident.
How it all started

Early Monday morning passers-by noticed a woman dressed in black clothes who was shouting something near Oktyabrskoye Pole metro station in northwest Moscow. The woman then produced what is thought to be a child’s severed head from her bag, witnesses say. She was allegedly threatening to blow herself up. Police were called to the scene and the woman was arrested. She is being examined by psychiatrists.

Who the alleged murderer is

The Russian media identified the suspect as Gulchekhra Bobokulova, 39, from Uzbekistan. It’s been reported that she worked for two years as a nanny to the girl who was killed. The head of the Moscow Migration Service department says the woman did not have a work permit. A source in the police authorities told Interfax that the woman was drugged at the moment she was arrested.
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© oleg_smotra Woman in black holding severed child's head near Moscow metro station detained (GRAPHIC)

What’s known about the crime


The decapitated body of a 3- or 4-year-old child was found by firefighters responding to a blaze in an apartment near the Oktyabrskoye Pole metro station, the investigative committee said. The media identified the toddler as a girl, Nastya M. Investigators suspect that the nanny waited till the parents had left the apartment with the elder child, then killed the little girl and set the apartment on fire. It’s been alleged she later put the dead child’s head in a bag and took a tram to the metro station. The motive behind the crime is not clear.

What the woman was shouting before being arrested

Numerous videos released online recorded indistinct speech, but some of the phrases can still be discerned, such as the phrase “I hate democracy. I’m a terrorist.”
“I'm your suicide bomber… I'm going to die in a second…The end of the world…” the woman also shouted. “The end of the world is coming in a second…I’m your death”.
She is also heard saying that she has been “cursed” and “destroyed”“so many times.”

Were there explosives?

Reports in the Russian media said that police were searching for explosive devices in the area near Oktyabrskoye Pole metro station. However, the officers didn’t locate any suspicious devices.

A search of the suspect first showed an absence of explosive devices. Later, LifeNews reported that experts found traces of explosives. However, these could be traces of the explosives the woman used while setting the apartment on fire.
Title: Fast Collapse ARRIVES at a Backyard BBQ
Post by: RE on March 10, 2016, 06:03:39 PM
For this family, collapse has arrived.

RE

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mother-reeling-after-pennsylvania-shooting-my-whole-family-was-massacred-n536026 (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mother-reeling-after-pennsylvania-shooting-my-whole-family-was-massacred-n536026)

Mother Reeling After Pennsylvania Shooting: 'My Whole Family Was Massacred'


News
Mar 10 2016, 7:08 pm ET
Mother Reeling After Pennsylvania Shooting: 'My Whole Family Was Massacred'

by Elizabeth Chuck
[5 Killed in Mass Shooting at Cookout: 'My Whole Family Was Massacred']
5 Killed in Mass Shooting at Cookout: 'My Whole Family Was Massacred' 1:44
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A carefree cookout outside Pittsburgh that turned into a mass murder scene Wednesday night has family members reeling — and begging for help catching the gunmen.

Five people were killed, including a pregnant woman, and three others were wounded after two gunmen opened fire on the backyard party in Wilkinsburg, Pennsylvania, just before 11 p.m. Wednesday, authorities said. Three young children who were home were unharmed.

The shots were fired from an alley behind the home, riddling victims with bullets as they tried to run away, Allegheny County police Lt. Andrew Schurman told reporters. No suspects were in custody Thursday, but police said they were searching for two gunmen who they believe fled on foot.

Police and the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives announced a reward of up to $20,000 for information leading to convictions of the gunmen.

Forty-eight shell casings were recovered at the scene, authorities said.
[Mom of Shooting Victims: 'My Whole Family Was Massacred']
Mom of Shooting Victims: 'My Whole Family Was Massacred' 3:15

Jessica Shelton, whose three adult children and two adult nieces were killed, and whose son is among the injured, said she was at the barbecue earlier in the evening, enjoying a bout of spring-like weather outside the house, which belonged to her daughter, Brittany Powell, 27.

"It was a laughing cookout, a fun cookout," she said at a news conference, adding that everyone was playing cards and dominoes. "I don't know why they were targeted."

Shelton told reporters that her daughter welcomed three men to the cookout who Shelton didn't recognize, but she said they seemed "nice."

"They were interacting, so I didn't feel like it was anything suspicious," she said.
Image: Shada Mahone
Shada Mahone was killed in the shooting Wednesday in Wilkinsburg, Pennsylvania. Family Photo

In addition to Powell, the Pittsburgh medical examiner's office identified the victims Thursday as Jerry Shelton, 35; Tina Shelton, 37; Chanetta Powell, 25; and Shada Mahone, 26. Jerry Shelton, Brittany Powell and Chanetta Powell are siblings.

Related: Victims in Pennsylvania Party Shooting Included Pregnant Woman

Chanetta Powell was eight months pregnant with a baby boy and was in the process of narrowing down her list of names for him, Jessica Shelton said. Police said Thursday they are considering baby's death as a sixth homicide.
Image: Chanetta Powell
Chanetta Powell was killed in the shooting Wednesday in Wilkinsburg, Pennsylvania. Family photo

Shelton said the impromptu cookout came together after family members called one another to sit in the warm weather.

"It wasn't like we put it on social media," she said.

She questioned whether the strangers at the cookout were tied to the violence.

"My whole family was massacred. Why didn't these three guys get hurt?" she said.

Authorities haven't named any suspects in the shootings, and they don't believe anyone at the party fired any of the shots. Law enforcement officials said Thursday there were people they were looking into, but they said they didn't have enough evidence for an arrest.
Image: Multiple Shooting Pennsylvania
Allegheny County detectives look over the scene Thursday of a shooting in Wilkinsburg, Pennsylvania. Keith Srakocic / AP

Investigators found ballistic evidence from two weapons, leading them to believe at least two gunmen were involved. The shootings appeared to have been targeted, they added.

Allegheny County District Attorney Stephen Zappala said Thursday that the murders were "planned, calculated, brutal."

Jessica Shelton's three grandkids, ages 8 months to 7 years, were home when the shots rang out, she said. Her 6-year-old grandson thought they were fireworks until he saw his mother bleeding, she said.
[Emotions High at Scene of PA Shooting]
Emotions High at Scene of PA Shooting 2:01

The gunmen were ruthless with the victims, even as they tried to escape, authorities said.

"It looks like, right now, they were all fleeing toward the back door of the residence when the second gunman fired from the side of the yard, and they all seemed to get caught on the back porch," Schurman told reporters.

Two of the wounded, both men, were in critical condition, officials said. Another woman was reported as stable and was treated and released from a hospital.

Through tears, Shelton said she was staying strong for her surviving family members.

"I have no choice," she said. "I'm just heartbroken today, but I've got a son that's in the hospital fighting for his life in critical condition. I can't imagine losing four. It's just not right for me to lose four and to lose two beautiful nieces."

Wilkinsburg is a borough of about 15,000 people east of Pittsburgh. The poor suburb is known for drug trafficking and gun violence, but neighbors told The Associated Press that the street where the shooting happened is generally quiet.

Maurice Trent Jr., pastor of the Lighthouse, a local church, urged anyone with information about the shooters to come forward.

"Somebody knows who did this," he said at Thursday's news conference. "The family appeal to you to pick up the phone and say something."
Title: Re: Fast Collapse ARRIVES at a Backyard BBQ
Post by: Surly1 on March 11, 2016, 02:55:51 AM
For this family, collapse has arrived.

RE

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mother-reeling-after-pennsylvania-shooting-my-whole-family-was-massacred-n536026 (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mother-reeling-after-pennsylvania-shooting-my-whole-family-was-massacred-n536026)

Mother Reeling After Pennsylvania Shooting: 'My Whole Family Was Massacred'


RE, I don't see this as a harbinger of collapse so much as yet another mass slaying with gunz. But since it happened it a black neighborhood, with black victims, it can be safely filed and forgotten.

Wilkinsburg is a couple of miles from where I grew up. It used to be known as the "city of churches" because there was one on every other corner, it seemed. Apparently it has fallen on bad times.They are even closing the local high school after this school year. Our family used to drive through Wilkinsburg in order to get to my father's family church. I drive through Wilkinsburg when I return to Pittsburgh to visit friends who live in Shadyside. The rail overpasses and neighborhoods we drove through when I was young now look like images of bombed-out Kosovo.

Now THAT's collapse.
Title: Re: Fast Collapse ARRIVES at a Backyard BBQ
Post by: RE on March 11, 2016, 03:01:31 AM

RE, I don't see this as a harbinger of collapse so much as yet another mass slaying with gunz.

It's a numbers issue.  I see the accelerating number of mass shootings as an indication of how the stress level is increasing in the society, and how this then plays out in violent actions.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 11, 2016, 04:38:24 AM
Just sounds like typical gang-banger stuff in a bad neighborhood. Is it a sign of collapse? Sure.

The very existence of all  these street gangs is a leading indicator. But there's so much of it, it's not that shocking anymore. My heart goes out to the families who were murdered.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on March 11, 2016, 04:57:05 AM
Just sounds like typical gang-banger stuff in a bad neighborhood. Is it a sign of collapse? Sure.

The very existence of all  these street gangs is a leading indicator. But there's so much of it, it's not that shocking anymore. My heart goes out to the families who were murdered.

I'm sure there is some back story to it.  I doubt it was just a totally random thing where strangers with gunz just descended on this BBQ and started shooting.  Unlikely of course we ever will find out the back story, and as Surly mentioned, since it is a bunch of black folks in a depressed neighborhood, it will disappear quickly from the Newz.  If a bunch of rich white folks were massacred in the Hamptons, it would occupy the Newz for a full year I bet, especially if the killers weren't caught.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 11, 2016, 05:30:47 AM
No, here's what I think. The strangers who were identified as not "belonging" at the party were gangsters from foreign turf.

Somebody at the party left and went to"local" rival gang headquarters and ratted them out. The shooters were young stone killers sent out to teach the other bunch a lesson. Using the typical exceptional judgment possessed by teenagers carrying semi-automatic weapons, they showed up and started spraying bullets.

It's happened just that way in gang-infested neighborhoods, hundreds, maybe thousands of times, for the last 20-30 years. House parties in the hood are dangerous. Everyone there knew that, too. Fact of life. You know it happens, but you gotta live your life and try to have a little fun anyway.
Title: Re: Fast Collapse ARRIVES at a Backyard BBQ
Post by: MKing on March 11, 2016, 06:45:15 AM
Wilkinsburg is a couple of miles from where I grew up. It used to be known as the "city of churches" because there was one on every other corner, it seemed. Apparently it has fallen on bad times.They are even closing the local high school after this school year. Our family used to drive through Wilkinsburg in order to get to my father's family church. I drive through Wilkinsburg when I return to Pittsburgh to visit friends who live in Shadyside. The rail overpasses and neighborhoods we drove through when I was young now look like images of bombed-out Kosovo.

Now THAT's collapse.

Wilkinsburg is yet another burb that went tits up when the Pittsburgh diversified away from steel during the 70's and 80's. Those that couldn't keep up with the non-manufacturing nature of the town were, as usual, left behind. You see it all up and down the Ohio Valley as well. "Collapse" as long as you define collapse as the ongoing economic consequences of a country moving away from labor intensive processes, but not collapse like that hoped and dreamed for among the happy mcdoomsters.

Title: Re: Fast Collapse ARRIVES at a Backyard BBQ
Post by: RE on March 11, 2016, 07:24:15 AM
Wilkinsburg is a couple of miles from where I grew up. It used to be known as the "city of churches" because there was one on every other corner, it seemed. Apparently it has fallen on bad times.They are even closing the local high school after this school year. Our family used to drive through Wilkinsburg in order to get to my father's family church. I drive through Wilkinsburg when I return to Pittsburgh to visit friends who live in Shadyside. The rail overpasses and neighborhoods we drove through when I was young now look like images of bombed-out Kosovo.

Now THAT's collapse.

Wilkinsburg is yet another burb that went tits up when the Pittsburgh diversified away from steel during the 70's and 80's. Those that couldn't keep up with the non-manufacturing nature of the town were, as usual, left behind. You see it all up and down the Ohio Valley as well. "Collapse" as long as you define collapse as the ongoing economic consequences of a country moving away from labor intensive processes, but not collapse like that hoped and dreamed for among the happy mcdoomsters.

OMFG.  Are you really that clueless?  I knew you were an Idiot Savant, but I though maybe you had some CFS buried in there somewhere.  Apparently not.

RE
Title: Re: Fast Collapse ARRIVES at a Backyard BBQ
Post by: Surly1 on March 11, 2016, 09:29:56 AM
Wilkinsburg is a couple of miles from where I grew up. It used to be known as the "city of churches" because there was one on every other corner, it seemed. Apparently it has fallen on bad times.They are even closing the local high school after this school year. Our family used to drive through Wilkinsburg in order to get to my father's family church. I drive through Wilkinsburg when I return to Pittsburgh to visit friends who live in Shadyside. The rail overpasses and neighborhoods we drove through when I was young now look like images of bombed-out Kosovo.

Now THAT's collapse.

Wilkinsburg is yet another burb that went tits up when the Pittsburgh diversified away from steel during the 70's and 80's. Those that couldn't keep up with the non-manufacturing nature of the town were, as usual, left behind. You see it all up and down the Ohio Valley as well. "Collapse" as long as you define collapse as the ongoing economic consequences of a country moving away from labor intensive processes, but not collapse like that hoped and dreamed for among the happy mcdoomsters.

Pittsburgh has reinvented itself post-steel into a medical, educational and technology hub that graces many lists of America's "10 most liveable cities." That includes many of the suburbs.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. You need a hobby; unemployment has only served to further embitter  an already bitter old man. I suggest you take up crack.

(http://www.crazywheelies.com/media/crackhead.jpg)
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Surly1 on March 11, 2016, 09:58:43 AM
Just sounds like typical gang-banger stuff in a bad neighborhood. Is it a sign of collapse? Sure.

The very existence of all  these street gangs is a leading indicator. But there's so much of it, it's not that shocking anymore. My heart goes out to the families who were murdered.

I'm sure there is some back story to it.  I doubt it was just a totally random thing where strangers with gunz just descended on this BBQ and started shooting.  Unlikely of course we ever will find out the back story, and as Surly mentioned, since it is a bunch of black folks in a depressed neighborhood, it will disappear quickly from the Newz.  If a bunch of rich white folks were massacred in the Hamptons, it would occupy the Newz for a full year I bet, especially if the killers weren't caught.

RE

Or a white girl gone missing in Aruba. Or a Runaway Bride.
Title: Re: Fast Collapse ARRIVES at a Backyard BBQ
Post by: MKing on March 11, 2016, 10:53:12 AM
Wilkinsburg is a couple of miles from where I grew up. It used to be known as the "city of churches" because there was one on every other corner, it seemed. Apparently it has fallen on bad times.They are even closing the local high school after this school year. Our family used to drive through Wilkinsburg in order to get to my father's family church. I drive through Wilkinsburg when I return to Pittsburgh to visit friends who live in Shadyside. The rail overpasses and neighborhoods we drove through when I was young now look like images of bombed-out Kosovo.

Now THAT's collapse.

Wilkinsburg is yet another burb that went tits up when the Pittsburgh diversified away from steel during the 70's and 80's. Those that couldn't keep up with the non-manufacturing nature of the town were, as usual, left behind. You see it all up and down the Ohio Valley as well. "Collapse" as long as you define collapse as the ongoing economic consequences of a country moving away from labor intensive processes, but not collapse like that hoped and dreamed for among the happy mcdoomsters.

Pittsburgh has reinvented itself post-steel into a medical, educational and technology hub that graces many lists of America's "10 most liveable cities." That includes many of the suburbs.

Yeah, that is what is claimed. Having driven through it, having relatives in it, college buddies at Pitt and CMU, hell having won races in high school at Shadyside Academy, it is different than it was back then in the 70's, but I don't think I buy into the entire "we are now so new and livable!" angle. Admittedly, I don't go there often any more, and it has changed, but I don't think I buy into the angle, at least not with the enthusiasm protrayed by those selling it.

Quote from: Surly1
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

I have certainly been told that before. But then, I've also been told that the economic transition from a manufacturing economy to something else is collapse, proving that sometimes I do, and that it is others who are whacked.
Title: Mass killer Anders Breivik's human rights breached in prison, court rules
Post by: RE on April 20, 2016, 06:07:55 PM
What about the Human Rights of all the people he mowed down?  What does the court have to say about that?

RE

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/20/europe/norway-anders-breivik-wins-suit/ (http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/20/europe/norway-anders-breivik-wins-suit/)

Mass killer Anders Breivik's human rights breached in prison, court rules

By Tim Hume and Olav Mellingsater, CNN

Updated 1:29 PM ET, Wed April 20, 2016

Self confessed mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik adjusts his tie in court room 250 at Oslo District Court on August 24, 2012. An Oslo court today found Anders Behring Breivik guilty of &#39;acts of terror&#39; and sentenced him to 21 years in prison for his killing spree last year that left 77 people dead. AFP PHOTO / POOL / HEIKO JUNGE (Photo credit should read Junge, Heiko/AFP/GettyImages)
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Mass murderer wins lawsuit against Norwegian government
Norwegian right-wing extremist Anders Behring Breivik arrives on June 22, 2012 in the courtroom in Oslo on the last day of the trial. His defense is expected to call for his acquittal. Even though there is no chance Breivik will be set free, his lawyers must formally make the request since their client has pleaded not guilty, despite having confessed to carrying out the murderous twin attacks on July 22, 2011, when he first bombed a government building in Oslo, killing eight people, before going on a shooting rampage on Utoeya island, northwest of the capital, where the ruling Labor Party&#39;s youth wing was hosting a summer camp. Sixty-nine people died on the island, most of them teens. Breivik, 33, has confessed to the twin attacks but has refused to plead guilty, insisting they were &#39;cruel but necessary&#39; to stop the Labor Party&#39;s &#39;multicultural experiment&#39; and the &#39;Muslim invasion&#39; of Norway and Europe. AFP PHOTO / DANIEL SANNUM LAUTEN (Photo credit should read DANIEL SANNUM LAUTEN/AFP/GettyImages)
Norway mass murderer suing over prison conditions
Camp reopens after massacre
Self confessed mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik adjusts his tie in court room 250 at Oslo District Court on August 24, 2012. An Oslo court today found Anders Behring Breivik guilty of &#39;acts of terror&#39; and sentenced him to 21 years in prison for his killing spree last year that left 77 people dead. AFP PHOTO / POOL / HEIKO JUNGE (Photo credit should read Junge, Heiko/AFP/GettyImages)
Unveiling the man behind Norway's mass killings
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Rap duo unite post-Breivik Norway
A man set himself alight on Tuesday outside the trial of Anders Breivik.
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nc.pracon.norway.survivor _00031603
Norway massacre survivor talks
Norwegian mass killer Anders Behring Breivik has his handcuffs removed in court prior to giving testimony.
Mass murderer wins lawsuit against Norwegian government
Norwegian right-wing extremist Anders Behring Breivik arrives on June 22, 2012 in the courtroom in Oslo on the last day of the trial. His defense is expected to call for his acquittal. Even though there is no chance Breivik will be set free, his lawyers must formally make the request since their client has pleaded not guilty, despite having confessed to carrying out the murderous twin attacks on July 22, 2011, when he first bombed a government building in Oslo, killing eight people, before going on a shooting rampage on Utoeya island, northwest of the capital, where the ruling Labor Party&#39;s youth wing was hosting a summer camp. Sixty-nine people died on the island, most of them teens. Breivik, 33, has confessed to the twin attacks but has refused to plead guilty, insisting they were &#39;cruel but necessary&#39; to stop the Labor Party&#39;s &#39;multicultural experiment&#39; and the &#39;Muslim invasion&#39; of Norway and Europe. AFP PHOTO / DANIEL SANNUM LAUTEN (Photo credit should read DANIEL SANNUM LAUTEN/AFP/GettyImages)
Norway mass murderer suing over prison conditions
Camp reopens after massacre
Self confessed mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik adjusts his tie in court room 250 at Oslo District Court on August 24, 2012. An Oslo court today found Anders Behring Breivik guilty of &#39;acts of terror&#39; and sentenced him to 21 years in prison for his killing spree last year that left 77 people dead. AFP PHOTO / POOL / HEIKO JUNGE (Photo credit should read Junge, Heiko/AFP/GettyImages)
Unveiling the man behind Norway's mass killings
Story highlights

    Mass killer wins part of lawsuit against Norwegian state for breaching his rights
    Court rules his treatment was in breach of rules prohibiting "inhuman or degrading treatment"
    Right-wing extremist killed 77 people in 2011 in Norway's deadliest attack since World War II

Oslo, Norway (CNN)Norwegian mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik has won part of his lawsuit against the state over his solitary confinement in a high-security prison, a court announced Wednesday.
The Oslo district court found the 37-year-old's treatment in prison violated Article 3 of the European Convention on Human Rights, prohibiting "inhuman or degrading treatment," and ruled that his conditions must be eased.

The court also ordered the government to pay legal costs of 331,000 kroner ($40,600) for the right-wing extremist, who killed 77 people in a shooting rampage and bombing attack in 2011.
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Norway has the right to appeal the ruling. It has not announced whether it intends to do so.
The court dismissed Breivik's claim that the government had violated Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights, which guarantees respect for "private life" and correspondence.
2013: Anger in Norway over claim Anders Breivik has applied to university
The ruling outlined areas of concern in regard to the conditions of Breivik's confinement, which, taken as a whole, constituted a breach of his rights.
These included the duration of his isolation, and inadequate consideration of the mental impact of the regime. It also said the routine nude checks Breivik had to go through were not sufficiently justified from a security perspective.
But it did not give concrete directives on how the conditions should be changed.
Breivik: Conditions 'sadistic'
The suit was heard over four days last month inside a gymnasium at Skien prison, which was temporarily converted into a courtroom.
Appearing in public for the first time since his trial, Breivik gave testimony during the suit, alleging that his isolation in prison constituted a "sadistic" attempt by Norwegian authorities to kill him.
Norway mass killer Anders Breivik compares himself to Mandela in court
Since his arrest, he has been separated from other inmates, and virtually his only visits have been with professionals, who meet with him separated behind a glass screen.
Unveiling the man behind Norway&#39;s mass killings

Unveiling the man behind Norway's mass killings 05:51
His incoming and outgoing mail is also censored to prevent him from building far-right networks and inciting sympathizers to violence.
Observers expressed concern that Breivik -- who gave a Nazi salute on his first day in court -- was using his court appearance as a platform to publicize his extremist ideology.
Breivik's killing spree on July 22, 2011, was the deadliest attack in Norway since World War II. Eight people were killed when a bomb he planted detonated in Oslo before he methodically shot to death 69 young people at a Labor Party youth camp on Utoya island. He blamed the party for the rise of multiculturalism in Norway.
Bjorn Ihler, one of the survivors of the Utoya massacre, said on Twitter that the ruling was a "sign we have a working court system, respecting human rights even under extreme conditions."
"Our best weapon in fighting extremism is humanity. The ruling in the Breivik case shows that we acknowledge the humanity of extremists too," he wrote.
Norway massacre could have been avoided, report finds

CNN's Tim Hume wrote and reported from London, and journalist Olav Mellingsater reported from Oslo.
Title: Texas Mother Killed by Police After She Fatally Shot Her Two Daughters
Post by: RE on June 25, 2016, 06:08:38 PM
Texas seems to be Shooter Central.

RE

http://www.people.com/article/texas-mother-shoots-two-daughters-killed-police (http://www.people.com/article/texas-mother-shoots-two-daughters-killed-police)

True Crime
Texas Mother Killed by Police After She Fatally Shot Her Two Daughters

(http://img2-1.timeinc.net/people/i/2016/news/160711/christy-byrd-sheats-2-600.jpg)
Christy Sheats (left) and one of her daughters
Source: Christy Byrd Sheats/Facebook

By Adam Carlson @acarlson91

updated 06/25/2016 AT 03:00 PM EDT

•originally published 06/25/2016 AT 03:35 PM EDT
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Texas police shot and killed a woman Friday after they said she shot and killed her daughters and then refused to drop her weapon.

Authorities say Christy Sheats, 42, was found armed in the street outside a Fort Bend County home Friday afternoon, near the bodies of her daughters Madison, 17, and Taylor Sheats, 22.

One of Sheats' daughters was pronounced dead at the scene, the Fort Bend County Sheriff's Office said; the other was hospitalized but later died from her injuries. It was not immediately clear which daughter died at the scene.

Authorities first responded to the scene about 5 p.m. local time, following calls of shots fired in the area.

"After refusing to drop her weapon," Sheats was shot and killed by a Fulshear city police officer who was assisting, the sheriff's office said.

Sheats' husband, the girls' father, was at the home at the time of the shooting and ran for help, police told KHOU.

A handgun was recovered from the scene, police told the station.

Texas Mother Killed by Police After She Fatally Shot Her Two Daughters| Crime & Courts, Personal Tragedy, Shootings, True Crime

Christy Sheats (left) and one of her daughters

Source: Christy Byrd Sheats / Facebook
• Want to keep up with the latest crime coverage? Click here to get breaking crime news, ongoing trial coverage and details of intriguing unsolved cases in the True Crime Newsletter.

"It would be too premature to give you a motive as to why something like this took place," Sheriff Troy Nehls told KTRK. "The best we can to pray for the father and husband so he can work through this."

Nehls said deputies had been to the home before, but was unable to say why, according to KTRK.

Texas Mother Killed by Police After She Fatally Shot Her Two Daughters| Crime & Courts, Personal Tragedy, Shootings, True Crime

Christy Sheats

Source: Christy Byrd Sheats / Facebook
Fulshear police confirmed their officer's involvement in a statement on Facebook: "Our officer was forced to take action. He was not injured and no deputies were injured. Our thoughts and prayers go out to all involved."

The department later wrote, "This was a tragic and unfortunate occurrence and we are deeply saddened by the results."

A Fulshear police representative told PEOPLE he did not have information on how the department will handle the officer involved in the shooting, and he said no such information would be released going forward. Fort Bend County Sheriff's representatives did not immediately respond to PEOPLE's request for comment.

The neighborhood is reportedly still reeling from the shooting – and what it means about the Sheats family.

"Those parents are good. They are hard-working," one neighbor told KTRK. "Very good family. I do not know how this happened. So I cannot believe that."

Neighbor Austin Enke, who said he had attended school with one of the daughters, told KHOU: "It's crazy. The neighborhood has never seen this kind of thing before. It's always quiet. This is surprising. They never showed any kind of thing that was wrong with them whatsoever."
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on June 25, 2016, 06:32:33 PM
"a handgun was recovered from the scene".
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on June 25, 2016, 06:41:34 PM
"a handgun was recovered from the scene".

Clearly we will need a Handgun Ban along with the Assault Rifle Ban.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Karpatok on June 25, 2016, 07:32:42 PM
"a handgun was recovered from the scene".

Clearly we will need a Handgun Ban along with the Assault Rifle Ban.

RE
. Well at least they gave equal opportunity to a WHITE wrong doer!  Good for them!  Karpatok
Title: Shooters Lock & Load in Austin
Post by: RE on July 31, 2016, 11:58:37 PM
Lightweights compared to Chicago, but trending.

RE

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/31/us/austin-shooting/ (http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/31/us/austin-shooting/)

Police: 1 dead, 4 injured in separate Austin shootings

By Chandrika Narayan and Joe Sutton, CNN

Updated 8:59 AM ET, Sun July 31, 2016
(http://a.tiles.mapbox.com/v4/cnndigital.81797cdd/8/59/105.png?access_token=pk.eyJ1IjoiY25uZGlnaXRhbCIsImEiOiJlMDBmMjQ4NTBiYzM0NjRjOTA0MTY0MGVhY2EyYTYyZSJ9.UyRZOUv2RWxTNnDe27vv2w)
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Story highlights

    Two separate shootings leave one person dead; suspect still at large
    The violence occurred in popular Sixth Street area of downtown Austin

(CNN)One person was killed and four were injured early Sunday in two separate shootings in a crowded area of downtown Austin, Texas, police said.
The first incident began at 2:17 a.m. local time when police received reports of gunshots, Austin Police Chief of Staff Brian Manley said in a news conference.

He said a woman, believed to be in her 20s, was pronounced dead at the scene.
Three victims -- all women in their 30s -- were taken to University Medical Center Brackenridge with gunshot wounds. One additional victim refused treatment.
Police say that there was a disturbance on Sixth Street, a popular nightlife district, where the suspect pulled out a weapon and began firing into the crowd.
The suspect is still at large, police said.
"As officers arrived, as you can imagine, with this being shortly after 2 a.m., and the large crowds we have on Sixth Street at this time, all the individuals leaving the bars, it was a very chaotic scene," Manley said. "A lot of people running in different directions with all the gunshots that were coming out."
The second, unrelated, incident began just seven minutes later. Police got a call about a disturbance at a parking garage just blocks away from the first incident.
"One individual (there) did pull out a weapon and fire it at another individual," Manley said.
Witnesses engaged the suspect, disarmed him and took him down, Manley said. The suspect was transported to a local hospital with non-life threatening injuries.
Authorities in the Texas capital are asking those with videos of the incidents to send them to police.
Austin police had earlier referred to the event as an "active shooter incident" in a tweet. But Manley said the two separate incidents so close together caused the confusion.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on August 01, 2016, 06:09:41 AM
I read that. It's gotten really dangerous down on Sixth when the bars close. I don't know about this one, but the shooters are almost always gang-bangers from the East Side.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on August 01, 2016, 09:49:51 AM
(http://static-32.sinclairstoryline.com/resources/media/75dc5733-4e85-4560-b118-da0b2b6f1214-large16x9_WANTED.JPG?1469992187043)

Endicott McRay, the Austin shooter.


His victim, Teknika Marie Moultrie, also appears to be black, from what I gather, although she wasn't his intended target, but was an innocent victim of a gangbanger who couldn't shoot straight.

Oh lookie, another case of Black Lives Really Don't Matter That Much to Violent Black Thugs With Guns.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on August 01, 2016, 10:04:36 AM

Oh lookie, another case of Black Lives Really Don't Matter That Much to Violent Black Thugs With Guns.

DUH! CAPTAIN OBVIOUS STRIKES AGAIN!

(https://www.tegile.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/captain-obvious-south-park.jpg)

Black on Black violence doesn't matter at all to the MSM.  Nobody pays attention, it gets no ratings, it's an Old Story.  How can anyone make any money off this?  You need to sell advertizing!

That's why Black people have started shooting White people.  It gets ATTENTION!

It's Win-Win for the MSM and for BLM, they both gain from this.  The only losers are the Dead People.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on August 01, 2016, 10:22:24 AM
CAPTAIN OBVIOUS STRIKES AGAIN!

It apparently is not so completely obvious to the delusional people who drink the PC kool-aid. So I feel inclined to point it out.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: K-Dog on August 01, 2016, 01:15:57 PM
Has anyone correlated an increase in gun violence with hot temperatures this summer?  If Texas is shooter central right now is it unusually hot there?

Maybe all the war on terror needs to keep going is hot temperatures, high fructose corn syrup, a population of disgruntled nut cases each with a significant probability of being set off by a sugar overdose, summer heat and perhaps lack of nookie. 

Those could be the basic ingredients which along with biased and sensationalized news reporting to ice the terrorist cake is all it takes to keep fear alive.
Title: 13 people shot in Bridgeport, Conn. house party ambush
Post by: RE on August 22, 2016, 12:10:19 AM
I think I need to get some Body Armor for the SUN BBQ next month.  :o

RE

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/13-people-shot-bridgeport-house-party-article-1.2759819 (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/13-people-shot-bridgeport-house-party-article-1.2759819)

13 people shot in Bridgeport, Conn. house party ambush

(http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2759821.1471784288!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_1200/shot.jpg)
The house on Plymouth St. in Bridgeport, Conn. where 13 people were shot Sunday morning. (Google Maps)

BY
Jason Silverstein
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Updated: Sunday, August 21, 2016, 5:24 PM

At least two shooters ambushed a packed house party in Bridgeport, Conn. Sunday morning, shooting and wounding 13 people, police said.

Police believe the shooters fired through the hedges of a neighboring house and into the backyard of a home on Plymouth St. at 1:27 a.m.

There were about 100 people at the party, police said, and the attackers shot partygoers inside and outside the house.

One woman was left in critical condition with a gunshot wound to her face, police said. A man also suffered a shotgun blast to the face and sustained a non-life-threatening injury.

Deadly Pittsburgh cookout shooting was planned 'execution'

The other victims — one woman and 10 men — were treated for non-life-threatening injuries to their lower extremities, police said. The victims ranged in age from 18 to 24. None have been identified.

The motive for the shooting is unknown. Police have made no arrests and named no suspects, but Police Chief A.J. Perez said at a press conference there would be "an arrest in this matter in the very near future."

Police spokesman Av Harris said authorities are investigating if the shooters were partygoers who "got upset."

The party planners asked the city for a permit to sell alcohol, but were denied, Perez said. Police are investigating if the people at the party were illegally charging money for alcohol, which could lead to criminal charges.

Connecticut Sen. Richard Blumenthal, an outspoken advocate for stronger firearm control, released a statement blaming the bloodshed on guns.

"Every day more Americans are injured or killed by a bullet is more graphic evidence — unwelcome and unwanted — of the urgent need for commonsense gun violence prevention measures," Blumenthal said.

"Congress is complicit in this scourge by its inexcusable inaction. The victims in Bridgeport are among tens of thousands of shooting casualties every year."
Title: Another Day Another Shooter: TX Girl Doesn't Like Thursdays
Post by: RE on September 08, 2016, 05:59:24 PM
In a Deja Vu all over again, a 14 year old HS girl did a shoot-em-up today.

If you recall, Bob Geldoff wrote "I Don't like Mondays" after a HS girl went postal back in the 80's.  The reason she gave for it was "I don't like Mondays".

http://www.youtube.com/v/8yteMugRAc0

RE

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/08/us/texas-high-school-shooting/ (http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/08/us/texas-high-school-shooting/)

Texas high school shooting: Girl shooter dead, 2 injured

By Jason Hanna, Joe Sutton and Ralph Ellis, CNN

Updated 7:56 PM ET, Thu September 8, 2016

active shooter training brown dnt lead_00001722.jpg
'Active shooter' training becomes the new normal
Semi-automatic handguns are displayed at the 143rd NRA Annual Meetings and Exhibits at the Indiana Convention Center in Indianapolis on April 25, 2014.
Would more guns make America safer?
Handguns that were swapped for gift cards during a Los Angeles Police Department sponsored gun buyback event in Los Angeles, California on December 13, 2014. The city held the event in three locations and the public were able safely and anonymously surrender firearms in exchange for $100 and $200 gift cards. AFP PHOTO/MARK RALSTON (Photo credit should read MARK RALSTON/AFP/Getty Images)
Survivors of gun violence are fed up
active shooter police training orig_00000000.jpg
Now Playing
How police respond in 'active shooter' situations
active shooter training brown dnt lead_00001722.jpg
'Active shooter' training becomes the new normal
Semi-automatic handguns are displayed at the 143rd NRA Annual Meetings and Exhibits at the Indiana Convention Center in Indianapolis on April 25, 2014.
Would more guns make America safer?
Handguns that were swapped for gift cards during a Los Angeles Police Department sponsored gun buyback event in Los Angeles, California on December 13, 2014. The city held the event in three locations and the public were able safely and anonymously surrender firearms in exchange for $100 and $200 gift cards. AFP PHOTO/MARK RALSTON (Photo credit should read MARK RALSTON/AFP/Getty Images)
Survivors of gun violence are fed up
active shooter police training orig_00000000.jpg
How police respond in 'active shooter' situations
active shooter training brown dnt lead_00001722.jpg
'Active shooter' training becomes the new normal
Semi-automatic handguns are displayed at the 143rd NRA Annual Meetings and Exhibits at the Indiana Convention Center in Indianapolis on April 25, 2014.
Would more guns make America safer?
Story highlights

    One female student shot another, and the shooter then killed herself, sheriff says
    A responding marshal also accidentally shot a Homeland Security, sheriff says; agent's condition isn't known
    "We all started crying," student says, recalling teacher's orders to hide in closet

(CNN)A 14-year-old freshman shot and killed herself after wounding another female student at Alpine High School in west Texas, authorities said Thursday.
In the confusion that followed, numerous law enforcement officers rushed to the scene and a US marshal accidentally shot a Homeland Security agent, Brewster County Sheriff Ronny Dodson said.

Dodson said the agent was in stable condition; he didn't release the condition of the wounded student. Her injuries didn't appear to be life-threatening.
Dodson said the student who died moved about six months ago to Alpine, a community of about 6,500 people roughly 200 miles southeast of El Paso. Dodson didn't identify her or provide a motive but said her family is cooperating.
"I understand she was a very good student," the sheriff said. "That's part of the investigation, what triggered this."
People cross a street as Alpine High School is evacuated following a shooting there Thursday morning.
People cross a street as Alpine High School is evacuated following a shooting there Thursday morning.
Alpine police Chief Russell Scown said his department heard about 9 a.m. local time (10 a.m. ET) that students were running out of the school.
A deputy happened to be driving by and entered the band hall, Dodson said. He found the shooter dead in a bathroom with a gun nearby, Dodson said.
Video showed students evacuated from the building huddled together and hugging each other. Police officers patrolled the streets outside the school. Officers from other jurisdictions descended on Alpine in force.
The Brewster County Sheriff's Office initially said two shooters were believed to be on the loose, but Dodson said later that with the initial shooter dead, no others were being sought.
Authorities also were trying to find a person who telephoned bomb threats to an Alpine hospital and nearby Sul Ross State University, Dodson said. A note making a bomb threat was found on a motel door, he said.
"We had four active crime scenes," the sheriff said.
"None of the prank calls are coordinated or have anything to do with the shooting at the school," Scown said.
Officers with bomb-sniffing dogs searched each university building for explosives, Dodson said. None were found
'There was blood on the floor'
A junior at the school told CNN that students had just started the day's second period when a teacher outside her class began yelling, "Get in the classroom!"
"My teacher ... yelled to everyone to get into the closet," said the junior, whom CNN is not naming because she is a minor.
"We heard someone yelling and running down the hall. We all started crying."
After a time, a law enforcement officer banged on the classroom door and ushered the students out, she said.
"There was blood on the floor in the cafeteria that I saw when we went past it on our way out of the school," the student said. "One of the officers told us to keep our hands up and run out of the building, so I only saw the blood quickly."
"It was so scary and very intense. I've never been so scared in my life."
CNN Map
Alpine, Texas
© Mapbox © OpenStreetMap Improve this map
The school, which has about 280 students, initially was placed on lockdown, the school district said. But students were being evacuated by 9:40 a.m., the Alpine Avalanche newspaper said on its Facebook page.
In a post reporting the evacuation, the Avalanche included an image of people gathering outside along a street.
Thursday's shooting came just over two weeks after the new school year began.
Residents of Alpine thought they were immune to seemingly random gun violence, the sheriff said at a news conference. The school does not have metal detectors or school resource officers, he noted.
"You can believe we are upset," he said. "We are still in shock for the most part."

CNN's Keith Allen, Roxanne Garcia and AnneClaire Stapleton contributed to this report.
Title: 15 People Shot, One Dead at ‘Horrific’ Cincinnati Nightclub Shooting
Post by: RE on March 26, 2017, 02:35:12 AM
He didn't like Saturday Nights.

RE

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/least-14-people-shot-cincinnati-nightclub-one-dead-n738621 (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/least-14-people-shot-cincinnati-nightclub-one-dead-n738621)

15 People Shot, One Dead at ‘Horrific’ Cincinnati Nightclub Shooting: Police

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C71DpqoX0AA-RSv.jpg)

by Kurt Chirbas, Gemma DiCasimirro and Chloe Hubbard

One person has been killed and at least fourteen others shot at the Cameo Nightclub in Cincinnati according to local police.

NBC's WLWT reported the shooting happened at 1 a.m. at the club on 4601 Kellogg Avenue.

Police told NBC there was no indication that the bloody attack, which happened inside the venue as hundreds of people partied, was terrorism related.

Assistant Police Chief Paul Neudigate told WLWT that several of the victims have life-threatening injuries.

"We are in the middle of a very horrific situation that occurred at the nightclub with multiple victims," Neudigate said. "It's going to be a long night for our homicide units to investigate."

Neudigate added that hundreds of people were inside of the nightclub at the time of the shooting, and called it a "chaotic crime scene."

"Many of them fled, unfortunately. Many of the witnesses fled, but everyone that we can identify is being interviewed," he said.

Neudigate added that Sunday morning's shooting was one of the largest shooting cases that he has worked in his 20 plus years with the department.

Pet. Sgt. Eric Franz of Cincinnati Police told NBC News "At least 14 people have been shot, 1 of them has succumbed to their injuries."

"They have been transported to four local hospitals. Nothing to add at this point about circumstances of shooting. There are multiple witnesses to interview."

Kelly Martin of the University of Cincinnati Medical Center confirmed to NBC News that their hospital received 8 patients from the incident.

She would not say if they were gunshot victims and was unable to comment if the hospital expects to receive more victims.

This is a developing situation, more to follow.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: K-Dog on March 26, 2017, 04:33:23 AM
Cameo Nightlife

(http://iballin.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/16113938_1844312182448450_4882424252412958565_n.jpg)

Quote
Officials said the nightclub "has had some challenges in the past

How many of us would hit that?  Raise a paw.

Also I saw a quote saying that the crowd was being uncooperative and the police were having trouble getting witness statements.

(http://iballin.com/wp-content/gallery/cameo-3-11-17-cincinnati-oh/IMG_2012.jpg)



Title: San Bernardino School Shooting: 2 Adults Dead in Classroom, 2 Students Hospitali
Post by: RE on April 10, 2017, 12:15:01 PM
http://ktla.com/2017/04/10/multiple-gunshot-victims-at-elementary-school-in-san-bernardino-amid-report-of-active-shooter-officials-say/ (http://ktla.com/2017/04/10/multiple-gunshot-victims-at-elementary-school-in-san-bernardino-amid-report-of-active-shooter-officials-say/)

San Bernardino School Shooting: 2 Adults Dead in Classroom, 2 Students Hospitalized in Possible Murder-Suicide
Posted 10:50 AM, April 10, 2017, by Tracy Bloom, Updated at 12:00PM, April 10, 2017


Two adults were found dead in a classroom and two students are hospitalized after a shooter walked on to the North Park Elementary School campus in San Bernardino on Monday and opened fire in what the police chief characterized as a suspected murder-suicide.

(https://tribktla.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/sbshoot.jpg?quality=85&strip=all&strip=all)
Authorities respond to an active shooter at North Park Elementary School in San Bernardino on April 10, 2017. (Credit: Doug Saunders)

Authorities responded to the elementary school, located 5378 N. H St., to a report of an active shooter just before 10:30 a.m., according to San Bernardino City Unified School District spokeswoman Maria Garcia.

The preliminary information was that a total of four victims were being treated, according to a tweet from San Bernardino Police Department Chief Jarrod Burguan.

The gunman was among those who were possibly down, according to the chief.

Two students were transported to a local hospital after the shooting, which took place in a classroom, he said.

Students were evacuated from North Park Elementary School in San Bernardino on April 10, 2017 following a possible murder-suicide shooting on campus. (Credit: KTLA)

“We have two students who have been flown by MediVac helicopter to a local trauma center,” San Bernardino City Unified School District spokeswoman Maria Garcia said. Their conditions were not immediately known.

The third victim is a a teacher, according to Garcia.

“We do not know the age of the students. We do not know the grade that the teacher taught,” she said.

Garcia told KTLA the situation is believed to be “contained.”

It was not immediately known how the gunman got into the school. During the day, the school office is the single point of entry, she said.

San Bernardino police and fire officials at North Park Elementary School on April 10, 2017 following shooting on campus. (Credit: KTLA)

“Our school campuses are obviously closed campuses during the school day … the time of 10:28 a.m. would have been well into the school day. We do not know how that suspect gained access into our school,” Garcia said.

She added that the elementary school do not have uniformed police officers or campus security, unlike the district’s middle and high schools.

“Our middle schools have campus security and all of our high schools have uniformed police officers,” Garcia said.

Authorities have not yet said whether the two adults who were found deceased were the teacher and the shooter. However, Burguan said police believe the suspect “is down” and that there is “no further threat.”

(https://tribktla.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/kidssb.jpg?quality=85&strip=all&strip=all)
Students from North Park Elementary School ushered out of the building on April 10, 2017 following a shooting on campus. (Credit: KTLA)

The San Bernardino County Fire first confirmed there were multiple victims at approximately 10:45 a.m., but did not provide a count.

Students at Cal State University San Bernardino, which is not far from the elementary school, were asked to shelter in place amid the active shooter report, the college tweeted. The shelter in place order was removed around 11:40 a.m.

North Park students were being taken to Cajon High School — located at 1200 W. Hill Dr. — “for safety,” Burguan tweeted.

Parents are asked to go to the high school and have a picture ID in order to pick up their students, the School District tweeted.

“If parent are looking to reunite with their children, all kids are being transported to Cajon High School,” Garcia said.

As of 11:50 a.m., no students remained on the North Park campus, according to the district spokeswoman.

In addition to North Park, Cajon Elementary School and Hillside Elementary School were also placed on lockdown, according to the School District. It was not immediately known how long the lockdowns would last.

Parents with questions are urged to call the district office at 909-381-1100.

(https://tribktla.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/policesb.jpg?quality=85&strip=all&strip=all)
Title: More than 50 dead and 200 injured in shooting on Las Vegas Strip
Post by: RE on October 02, 2017, 04:56:52 AM
50 Kills!  That's a top notch shooter!

RE

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-las-vegas-mandalay-bay-20171001-story.html (http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-las-vegas-mandalay-bay-20171001-story.html)

More than 50 dead and 200 injured in shooting on Las Vegas Strip; police say lone suspect is dead

(http://www.trbimg.com/img-59d1d6b0/turbine/la-na-reported-shooting-at-mandalay-bay-in-las-vegas-20171001/700/700x394)
People run from the Route 91 Harvest country music festival after apparent gun fire was heard around the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino. (David Becker / Getty Images)

David Montero and Alene Tchekmedyian

More than 50 people were killed and at least 200 others injured after a gunman opened fire Sunday night at a country music festival opposite the Mandalay Bay hotel and resort on the Las Vegas Strip, authorities said.

Police released the updated death toll in the early morning hours after a horrific night of violence that turned a concert into a scene of carnage. While initial reports put the death toll at 20, Las Vegas Metropolitan Police tweeted later that at least 50 were dead.

Police said the suspect, 64-year-old Stephen Paddock, a resident of Mesquite, Nev., was killed after a SWAT team burst into the hotel room from which he was firing at the crowd.

“Right now we believe it’s a solo act, a lone wolf attacker,” Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Sheriff Joe Lombardo said. “We are pretty confident there is no longer a threat.”

Authorities said the gunman appeared to have begun firing at 10:08 p.m. from the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay hotel toward the concert venue across the street.

Officers entered the room and engaged the suspect. “He is dead, currently,” Lombardo said, adding that authorities have no evidence of a motive. “We don’t know what his belief system was at this time.”
 
Police are seeking to speak to Marilou Danley, who is described as the suspect's "companion."

Police said they have succeeded in locating a woman, identified as Marilou Danley, who was believed to be traveling with Paddock and is listed as living at his address in Mesquite, about 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas. “We are confident we have located the female person of interest,” the department said on Twitter.

Authorities executed a search warrant at the suspect’s home and found several rifles in the suspect’s room, Lombardo said.

Mesquite Police officer Quinn Averett, a spokesman for the department, said about 10 Mesquite officers were at the home early Monday morning holding a perimeter.

Two of the dead may include a pair of off-duty police officers who were attending the concert, Lombardo said.

“A tragic and heinous act of violence has shaken the Nevada family,” Gov. Brian Sandoval said on Twitter. “Our prayers are with the victims and all affected by this act of cowardice.”

President Trump tweeted his “warmest condolences and sympathies” to the victims and their families.

University Medical Center spokeswoman Danita Cohen said the hospital was treating “many patients” with gunshot wounds in the wake of the shooting. There were so many that citizens were arriving at the emergency room with gunshot victims loaded into their cars, local media reported.

Authorities established a command post and triage center, and shut down parts of the Strip in the hours after the shooting. Hotel guests blocked from returning to their hotels were shuttled to a center equipped with metal detectors.

Police initially investigated reports of a “suspicious device” down the street, outside the Luxor Hotel, but said later there appeared to be no explosive devices related to the incident, other than that used by the SWAT team breaching the room where the suspect was located.
Shooting in Las Vegas
Location of the shooting in Las Vegas

A three-day Route 91 Harvest country music festival performance was underway across Las Vegas Boulevard from the Mandalay Bay hotel when the shooting erupted. Concertgoers reported a burst of weapons fire as a Jason Aldean performance was underway.

The shots appeared to be coming from an upper floor of the hotel, some witnesses said.

Video posted on social media showed the open-air concert fully underway when bursts of automatic gunfire rang out in rapid succession. Dozens of concertgoers dropped to the ground, screaming, while others ran, some in pairs or in groups with their arms linked.

The shooting went on for about more than 30 seconds before the music stopped, and another burst was heard later.

“Get down, stay down,” one woman shouted. “Let’s go,” another voice said. Another wave of gunshots followed soon after.

Seth Bayles, of West Hollywood, said Aldean had been performing for about 20 minutes when he heard shots.

“I thought it was like bottle rockets going off,” Bayles said. “Then we saw people dropping. We saw someone get hit and then we started running.”

Bayles said he was probably 50 feet from the stage when he heard the shots. “We saw people down all over the place.”

Bayles said Aldean was quickly pulled off stage, and soon after, the band was brought off as well.

Two men near the casino said they heard a helicopter with a bullhorn yelling “Go! Go! Go!” as the incident unfolded. Others said they saw police and SWAT teams streaming into the Mandalay Bay casino.

Bernice Allard, who came to the concert with her husband Frank Allard, said there was screaming when the shooting began. “Single shot. Single shot, then a lot of shots,” Frank Allard said.

Allard, 56, said he had come to see Eric Church and Sam Hunt and Jason Aldean, who was into his fourth or fifth song when the shooting began. He said the crowd began to stampede, and he grabbed a nearby fence, stretched both arms wide and tried to shield his wife from the danger. Then they ran.

“We followed the crowd out,” Bernice Allard said.

Alarm spread up and down the strip as news of the shootings spread.

Alfonzo Ewing had arrived shortly before midnight for the overnight shift as a cook at the White Castle at the Best Western Plus Casino Royale on the northern side of the strip, a little more than two miles from Mandalay Bay.

“We heard reports of gunshots and customers rushed to jump the counter for safety. Everyone just took off running from the White Castle and the hotel,” said Ewing, 37. “Employees and customers went downstairs to hide in the break room. We’re here now, 15 of us, with customers. We’re safe but we don’t know what’s happening.”

Kevin Daly, 58, of Long Beach, said he had been playing pai gow at the MGM Grand hotel, down the street from the concert venue, and left to see if he could play a Game of Thrones game near the entry when chaos erupted.

“All these people started running and screaming, and then that stopped for about a minute, and then more people started coming in the other way and ran through where I was,” he said. “There were so many people walking and running and people crying and people saying there’s an active shooter on the street, so I finally asked one of the waitresses what’s going on and she said the shooter is outside of the casino.”

Daly said the entire area was put on lockdown so he went upstairs to his room. “Out the windows, we can see Mandalay Bay, we can see all the police cars and all the lights and there are helicopters all over the place.”

Several off-duty Bakersfield police officers were attending the concert when the gunfire began. Bakersfield Police Lt. Jeff Burdick said they were not in a position to return fire.

One Bakersfield officer was wounded the gunfire and was taken to a hospital for treatment, but is expected to survive, Burdick said.

“Our officers were actually attending the concert as civilians,” said Lt. Jeff Burdick, adding that the agency has accounted for every officer they know was there.

Officials at McCarran International Airport reported that some flights were diverted in the immediate aftermath of the shootings. “Expect delays,” the airport said on Twitter.

Hospital personnel across Las Vegas were paged to work, local media reported.

Parts of I-15 near the Strip were also shut down, and hotel guests across the strip were being ordered to shelter in place. The freeway reopened later, but offramps near the strip remained closed through much of the night.

Aldean was the final act of the Route 91 Harvest festival, while dozens of others had played over the course of the weekend, including Eric Church, Sam Hunt and Maren Morris. In numerous tweets, artists communicated with fans and followers, expressing their sorrow and prayers for anyone injured and telling loved ones that they were safe.

Jake Owen, who played the main stage before Aldean, tweeted: "Praying for everyone here in Vegas. I witnessed the most unimaginable event tonight. We are okay. Others aren’t. Please pray."

Aldean himself responded on Instagram:

"Tonight has been beyond horrific,” he wrote. “I still don’t know what to say but wanted to let everyone know that Me and my Crew are safe. My Thoughts and prayers go out to everyone involved tonight. It hurts my heart that this would happen to anyone who was just coming out to enjoy what should have been a fun night. #heartbroken #stopthehate."

Former broadcast journalist Dan Ball, 42, of Palm Desert, had been backstage as a friend of the country duo Big & Rich when they performed, then went to John Rich’s bar “Redneck Riviera” nearby as Aldean took the stage.

“The tour manager came over to us and said shots were fired and people were down. We were locked down in the bar and hunkered down,” Ball said.

When he had been backstage during the performance, he said, he had marveled as he looked at the crowd and thought, “Isn’t it great to look out there? We saw white, black, straight, gay, males, females, everyone out there having a good time. Moments later, these cowards commit a heinous act like this. It’s unbelievable. Unbelievable.”
Title: Top 10 Mass Shooter Kill Counts
Post by: RE on October 02, 2017, 05:46:19 AM
OK, it's 11 because there was a 4-Way Tie at 13 Kills.

RE

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/las-vegas-shooting/las-vegas-shooting-deadliest-modern-u-s-history-n806486 (https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/las-vegas-shooting/las-vegas-shooting-deadliest-modern-u-s-history-n806486)

Las Vegas Shooting Is Deadliest in Modern U.S. History

by Hasani Gittens, Helen Kwong and Kalhan Rosenblatt

(https://media3.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2017_27/2061546/170705-nightclub-shooting-gay-latinos-out-1206p_b6cad0ca88d1457aa381224e673eb1e9.nbcnews-ux-600-480.jpg)
In this Tuesday, May 30, 2017 photo, Marco Quiroga, who works to support LGBTQ and social-justice causes in central Florida, reflects in front of one of the memorials at the Pulse Nightclub in Orlando, Fla. A year after the Pulse Nightclub shooting, the city's gay Latinos are trying to build up their community by forming support groups, seeking seats at the tables of power and creating a foundation to champion gays and Latinos. John Raoux / AP

The mass shooting during a Jason Aldean performance at a music festival in Las Vegas is now the deadliest mass shooting in modern American history. The massacre eclipsed the deadly 2016 Pulse nightclub shooting, in which 49 people were killed.
[Las Vegas Sheriff: 50+ Dead, 200+ Injured In Shooting]
Las Vegas Sheriff: 50+ Dead, 200+ Injured In Shooting 5:05

These are the most deadly mass shootings in modern American history:
More than 50 killed

Around 10 p.m. (1 a.m. ET) Sunday, gunman Stephen Paddock, 64, a resident of Mesquite, Nevada, opened fire from his 32nd floor hotel room on a crowd watching Aldean perform at an outdoor music festival. Police responded to Mandalay Bay Resort and fatally shot Paddock. Several weapons were located in Paddock's hotel room, but it was not immediately clear what type of weapons were recovered. Police reported more than 50 people were dead and more than 200 people were injured in the shooting.
49 killed

On June 12, 2016, 49 people were killed and dozens more were wounded after a gunman Omar Mateen opened fire and took hostages at Pulse, a LGBT-friendly nightclub in Orlando, Florida. Mateen was later killed following a standoff with police. Mateen was a lone-wolf shooter, using a rifle and handgun he'd purchased legally, authorities say. While family and friends initially said Mateen had not been radicalized, call logs from the night of the shooting show that the shooter was "saying he pledges to the Islamic State."

32 killed

On April 16, 2007, 23-year-old Virginia Tech student Seung-Hui Cho shot 32 people to death on the Blacksburg, Virginia, campus before killing himself. The dead included 27 students and five faculty members. Another 17 people were injured. Days after the shooting, the worst school shooting in the nation's history, NBC News received a package from Cho that contained a video of him ranting about rich "brats" and complaining about being bullied.
Image: Students visit a makeshift memorial
Students visit a makeshift memorial set up on the campus of Virginia Tech for the students and faculty that lost their lives in the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history on April 18, 2007 in Blacksburg, Va. Evan Vucci / AP File
27 killed

On Dec. 14, 2012, 20-year-old Adam Lanza killed 28 people, including himself, his mother, 20 elementary school kids and six school staff and faculty at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. Lanza suffered from extreme mental health issues that weren't treated, and was preoccupied with violence, a report from state officials found. He also had easy access to weapons, the report said.
23 killed

On Oct. 16, 1991, A 35-year-old named George Hennard crashed his pickup through Luby's Cafeteria, a packed restaurant in Killeen, Texas. He shot and killed 23 people before shooting and killing himself. Twenty-seven others were wounded. The Texas massacre is the deadliest shooting to not happen at a school in U.S. history. According to a former roommate, Hennard "hated blacks, Hispanics, gays. He said women were snakes."
21 killed

On July 18, 1984, James Huberty, a 41-year-old former security guard who had lost his job, opened fire at a McDonald's in San Ysidro, California, killing 21 employees and customers, including children. A police sniper killed him an hour after he started shooting.

Related: Mass Killings Inspire Copycats, Study Finds
18 killed

On Aug. 1, 1966, former U.S. Marine Charles Joseph Whitman, 25, killed his mother and wife, then went on top of a tower at University of Texas at Austin and killed 16 others. He also wounded at least 30. Whitman had complained of physical and mental health issues before the attack. He was then shot by a police officer. An autopsy after his death revealed he had a brain tumor, but it was not clear whether that had affected his actions.
14 killed

On Dec. 2, 2015, 14 people were reported dead and an estimated 14 hurt in an attack at the Inland Regional Center in San Bernardino, California, a state-run facility that provides services to people with developmentally disabled people and trains social workers who care for them. The husband-and-wife assailants were eventually killed by police in a shootout.
14 killed

On Aug. 20, 1986, postman Patrick Henry Sherill killed 14 postal workers in Edmond, Oklahoma, and then killed himself with a shot to the head. The rampage came a week after two supervisors reprimanded him for lousy performance.

Related: 'Absolute Devastation' Among Orlando's LGBTQ Community
13 killed

On April 20, 1999, students Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, killed 12 other students and a teacher at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado. Two dozen were injured. They then killed themselves in the school's library. In journal entries, the high school seniors had written about a desire to imitate events such as the Oklahoma City bombing.
13 killed

On Nov. 5, 2009, Mad. Nidal Malik Hasan, 39, killed 13 people and injured 32 others at Fort Hood, Texas. Hasan has been sentenced to death.
13 killed

On April 3, 2009, in Binghamton, New York, 41-year-old Jiverly Wong, an immigrant, killed 13 people and injured four others at an immigrant services center before killing himself. President Obama called the shootings "an act of senseless violence."
13 killed

On Feb. 18, 1983, three robbers at the Wah Mee gambling club in Seattle killed 13 people. Kwan Fai Mak and Benjamin Ng were convicted of murder later that year and are serving life sentences; Wai-Chu Ng was deported to Hong Kong in 2014.
Title: Vegas Shooter Filmed Himself During Slaughter
Post by: RE on October 04, 2017, 01:38:15 AM
Anyone have speculation on what set this shooter off?

RE

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-03/vegas-shooter-filmed-himself-during-slaughter-suicide-photo-emerges (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-03/vegas-shooter-filmed-himself-during-slaughter-suicide-photo-emerges)

Vegas Shooter Filmed Himself During Slaughter, May Have Left A Note; Suicide Photo Emerges

Vegas Shooter Filmed Himself During Slaughter, May Have Left A Note; Suicide Photo Emerges

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Warning: Graphic Content Below

Millionaire Las Vegas shooter Stephen Paddock set up a camera inside his hotel room to capture his deadly shooting rampage on film, as well as various other surveillance equipment in the hallway to alert him as cops closed in on him. According to ABC, the shooter had at least one lens set up to tape himself as he fired hundreds of rounds on thousands of unsuspecting concertgoers several hundred yards below his Mandalay Bay casino suite. Also, knowing that the cops would eventually catch up to him, he also reportedly wired cameras in the hallway outside his room so he could see when the heat was getting close.

Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department Sheriff Joseph Lombardo confirmed that Paddock had cameras inside and outside of his hotel room during a late-afternoon press conference.

According to his brother, Paddock, 64, had made millions from real estate deals; he also owned two planes and several properties across the US, and seemed normal apart from his passion for gambling large sums.  He'd also secretly amassed a massive arsenal of no less than 42 firearms with at least one of those an automatic, while another two had been modified with legal bump-stock devices that allows semi-automatic guns to give full-auto fire of up to 800 rounds a minute. Several had scopes, and packed military-grade ammunition.

Paddock took 23 of those guns into his Mandalay Bay suite over several days and set up two rifles on tripods at windows overlooking the Route 91 Harvest country music festival. According to the Daily Mail, Thousands of rounds of ammunition were also found in the suite, enabling him to fire repeatedly over the course of 72 minutes. His car had several pounds of a fertilizer used in bomb-making.

A look outside his room via ABC:

 

And inside:

And, as we now learn, he also reportedly set up a camera in his room, apparently to film the mass murder, and others in the hallway to capture police arriving. Before carrying out the shooting, he used a hammer-like tool to smash out two window in his room which he used to fire out of.

Paddock had lived in 27 residences in Nevada, Florida and Texas as an adult, but other than that he had apparently lived a quiet and unremarkable life - and the reason for the most deadly assault in American history is still a mystery.  Explanations have been offered for his motive, but law enforcement has
 remained coy. It has been suggested debts, a relationship collapse, or
 his family history may have contributed to the his drive to kill.

The retired accountant had worked as an internal auditor at Lockheed Martin for three years in the late 1980s, and was a manager and investor in apartment complexes located in Mesquite, Texas and California, which made him millions, his brother said, according to the Las Vegas Sun. A federal spokeswoman he worked as letter carrier, IRS agent for nearly a decade in 1970s and '80s

Local police said they had no run-ins with the man, not even traffic violations, and his brother described him as 'just a guy who lived in Mesquite who drove down and gambled in Las Vegas and... liked burritos'. So the discovery that he had used 10 suitcases to methodically move an arsenal up into his Mandalay Bay room over the preceding weekend came as a shock to those who knew him.

Eric Paddock said he thought his brother was far from a gun fanatic. 'He had a couple of guns but they were all handgun, legal... he might have had one long gun, but he had them in a safe,' he said. He said he didn't know about the 23 guns that were found in the hotel room.

Speaking to the WSJ, a law enforcement source said that they found at least one fully automatic rifle among the batch, which included AR-15-style rifles and AK-47-style rifles.  As we reported this morning, it also later emerged that two other semi-auto guns had been legally modified with bump-stocks that allow them to function like fully automatic rifles, pumping out 400-800 bullets a minute.

Among the weapons found in the room were four Daniel Defense DDM4 rifles, three FN-15s and other rifles made by Sig Sauer. A handgun was also found. 

Four DDM4 rifles were among the 23 weapons found in Paddock's hotel room.

Three FN-15 rifles, as well as guns made by Sig Sauer, were found in his arsenal.


A Colt AR-15 was also found in the room


Stephen Paddock's room was packed with 23 guns and lots of ammo

Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo said on Monday it wasn't clear whether the full-auto gun was modified, or if it was originally made that way. He also said that the ammunition ranged in size from .308, usually used in hunting rifles, to .223, associated with AR-15s and other assault rifles - the latter being military-grade, the New York Daily News reported. 

Eric said the revelation of his brother's deadly plan, which saw thousands of rounds falling on a crowd of 22,000 people at a music festival below, was as unexpected as seeing a meteor suddenly landing on his street.

The shocks only grew in number Monday as police raided two of Paddock's properties. The first was his Mesquite home in a sleepy retirement community, which he purchased for just over $369,000 in 2015 according to public records.


He lived at the $400,000 property (pictured with crumpled garage door after police raid) with Danley

Some 19 additional firearms were in the house, along with the explosive Tannerite - which is used to make explosive targets for target practice - and several thousand rounds of ammunition, Lombardo said Monday. He added that electronic devices were also found, but that they are still being examined to determine their purpose. Photos of the property showed the garage door torn off its hinge and crumpled after the search.

Police also found the fertilizer ammonium nitrate - which can be used to make bombs - in Paddock's car in Las Vegas on Monday.

A SWAT team also raided a second property owned by Paddock in Reno on Monday.  Bomb experts were on hand, due to concerns over booby traps. Police have not yet revealed what, if anything, they found there. Speaking on Monday evening, police said that the scene was still being examined by detectives.

Although ISIS have repeatedly attempted to claim credit for the shooting, saying Paddock had recently converted to Islam, both his brother and authorities have dismissed the claims. He had 'no religious affiliation, no political affiliation,' Eric said, adding: 'He just hung out.'

He also had no Army training, nor expressed any particular interest in guns, Eric added - though he admitted that, as he lives in Florida, he had not spoken much with his brother over the last year. 'His life is an open book. It's all in public record,' he said. 'Once again, there is nothing. He went to college. He had a job.'

Paddock had both hunting and fishing licenses according to public records, as well as his pilot's license, but no criminal record in the state of Nevada. Only his gambling habit stood out as unusual; Stephen would play $100 hands of video poker, and 'once texted me a picture that he won $40,000 on a slot machine,' Eric said. Neighbors at one of his properties in Florida said that they had barely talked to him - that he gave them keys to check on the property, and would only turn up every three months or so. When he did, they said, he would rarely be seen because he stayed up late at night playing poker online.

Law enforcement officials said that in recent weeks he had made a number of transactions in Las Vegas that were in the tens of thousands of dollars. On some days he spent more than $30,000, and on others more than $20,000, according to an individual who had seen Paddock's Multiple Currency Transaction Reports. It's not known whether he made money back on any recent bets, or lost it.

In his private life, Paddock enjoyed country shows on the Las Vegas Strip - such as the one he eventually attacked. Paddock's time in Las Vegas wasn't totally without event, however; in 2012 he filed a lawsuit against Cosmopolitan Hotels & Resorts following an incident that occurred at their Las Vegas casino. Paddock spent two years in court fighting his case after submitting his initial complaint citing 'Negligence - Premises Liability.'

It was ultimately dismissed with prejudice in late 2014, and exact details of the case were not available on the Clark County Courts website.

Paddock was also the son of Benjamin Hoskins Paddock, a serial bank robber who ended up on the FBI Most Wanted list back in 1969 when he escaped from federal prison in Texas while serving a 20 years sentence. The FBI kept him on the list for the next eight years, and he was eventually found one year after he was removed from the list in 1978 while outside an Oregon Bingo hall. The agency said that the fugitive had been 'diagnosed as psychopathic' and also had possible 'suicidal tendencies.' 

The attack ended when the police breached the door to his room on the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Resort just after 10pm on Sunday night, by which time Paddock had committed suicide. The result is shown in the photo below.

Finally, as the Star reports, the shooter may have left a suicide message: a note left by the gunman may offer clues to his reasons for slaughtering country music fans at the Route 91 Harvest Festival. The police have repeatedly said investigations are ongoing and have yet to make public any details.

Title: The Las Vegas Shooter Timeline Changes Once Again - Stefan Molyneux
Post by: g on October 18, 2017, 03:38:06 AM
 GO is quite a fan of Stefan, a truly smart man. While being an admirer my desire to be objective leads me the conclusion that after a great deal of pondering Stefan's analysis is by far the best. It's all become clear to me now after this.

Listen to the very end my Dear readers or don't waste your time listening at all. Trust me you will miss it all if you cut it short.

For readers unaware of this most brilliant of commentators and nice person it is my great pleasure to introduce him to the forum.                                                                          GO FIVE STAR rated  *****  :icon_study: :icon_study: :icon_study: :icon_study: :icon_study:

                                  http://www.youtube.com/v/F2RNi3gihQs
Title: Three dead in shooting at Walmart in Thornton; gunman at large
Post by: RE on November 02, 2017, 12:43:43 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/2017/11/01/thornton-shooting-walmart/ (http://www.denverpost.com/2017/11/01/thornton-shooting-walmart/)

Three dead in shooting at Walmart in Thornton; gunman at large
Police say the scene is no longer an active shooter situation. Witnesses saw someone arrested.

(http://www.denverpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/walmart-shooting-11012017-jl-210x.jpg?w=620)
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John Leyba, The Denver Post
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Rochelle Ginsner holds her daughter Danielle Carey 16-years-old, an employee, after they were released from the parking lot at Walmart. Danielle Emergency crews and police on the grounds of the Walmart in Thornton on Nov. 1, 2017 during a shooting.
By Kieran Nicholson | knicholson@denverpost.com | The Denver Post
PUBLISHED: November 1, 2017 at 6:52 pm | UPDATED: November 1, 2017 at 11:36 pm
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Two men and a woman are dead after a shooting early Wednesday evening inside the Walmart Supercenter at 9901 Grant St. in Thornton, police said. Police said the gunman is at large.

Hundreds of emergency responders ringed the Thornton Town Center shopping complex for hours after the shooting was reported about 6:30 p.m.

Thornton police spokesman Victor Avila said a gunman wearing a black jacket, blue jeans and a maroon shirt walked into the south entrance of the store and began shooting a handgun randomly. The three victims were all in the same area near the front of the store, Avila said.

The suspect fled the store and is believed to have fled the area in a possible red Mitsubishi Mirage 4 door hatchback.
The person of interest is described as a Caucasian adult male wearing a black vest, maroon shirt, blue jeans.
The suspect fled the store and is believed to have fled the area in a possible red Mitsubishi Mirage 4 door hatchback.
The suspect fled the store and is believed to have fled the area in a possible red Mitsubishi Mirage 4 door hatchback.
The person of interest is described as a Caucasian adult male wearing a black vest, maroon shirt, blue jeans.
Thornton Police
1 of 3

The person of interest is described as a Caucasian adult male wearing a black vest, maroon shirt, blue jeans.

The gunman said nothing during the shooting, Avila said, then left.

An hour later, the Thornton Police Department tweeted, “At this time this is not an active shooter.”
Audio of first-hand accounts of a shooting in a Thornton Walmart on Nov. 1, 2017.
Denver Post

Police said the gunman fled in a red Mitsubishi Mirage four-door hatchback, and Avila said they do not have any leads on his identity.

The Thornton Town Center is a big-box shopping complex that backs to Interstate 25 south of East 104th Avenue. It includes several other retailers, including Home Depot, Cinebarre theater and McDonald’s.

People who had been in the store flooded the parking lot of the nearby Golden Corral restaurant, which overlooks the shopping center from the south. Others looked toward the Walmart while waiting for news of their loved ones.

Aaron Stephens, 44, was in the self-checkout line at Walmart when he heard a single shot fired, followed by more bursts of gunfire. He said customers started screaming and running for the exits.

“I was scared,” Stephens said. “I feared for my life.”

Brandon Bonney said he received a call from his brother, Edward, from inside the store. “Bro, I’m inside Walmart, and there’s a shooting here,” he said.

Brandon said he told his brother to “just get somewhere and hide.” Edward started crying and Brandon told him to put his phone on silent and to stay calm. He said he hadn’t heard from Edward since.

Jay Quawrn Thompson, 18, was working in the back of the Walmart when he heard gunshots and then saw a screaming woman running toward him.

“A lady came running back, screaming about the shots. I got her out,” said Thompson, who just started work at the store a month ago.

Together, they ran out of the back of the store and then sat down and waited for help. Police stopped to make sure they were OK and then told them to get to safety.

Thompson was standing in the parking lot of the Golden Corral with no coat when Manny Colmenero stopped and asked if he was cold. When the teenager said yes, Colmenero took off his own coat and gave it to Thompson — and told him to keep it.

Colmenero, whose wife works for the Colorado Bureau of Investigation, talked about shootings that have dominated the news here and abroad.

“You see this stuff everywhere now,” he said. “We got to help each other out.”

Police warned people in the area to stay away from the shopping center. Streets leading to the area were blocked by emergency vehicles, and police officers armed with long guns were standing at intersections.
Title: 26 dead, 20 injured in massacre at rural Texas church in worst mass shooting in
Post by: RE on November 05, 2017, 06:57:03 PM
He topped Charlie Whitman in Kill Count for Texas!  :o

RE

http://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-church-scene-shooting-sunday-report/story?id=50945596 (http://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-church-scene-shooting-sunday-report/story?id=50945596)

26 dead, 20 injured in massacre at rural Texas church in worst mass shooting in state's history

(http://a.abcnews.com/images/US/map-texas_church_shooting-abc-jt-171105_7x5_992.jpg)

    By M.L. NESTEL
    EMILY SHAPIRO

Nov 5, 2017, 9:21 PM ET

Nick Wagner/Statesman.com via AP
WatchMass shooting at church in Texas: Special report

    Email

At least 26 people were killed and 20 others were injured when a gunman stormed a church in rural Texas with a rifle this morning, Wilson County Sheriff Joe Tackitt and the Texas Department of Public Safety said.

Victims' ages range from 5 to 72, authorities said. Texas Gov. Greg Abbott called today's shooting in Sutherland Springs, about 40 miles southeast of San Antonio, the largest mass shooting in Texas history.

PHOTO: Enrique and Gabby Garcia watch investigators at the scene of a mass shooting at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, Nov. 5, 2017.Jay Janner/Statesman.com via AP
Enrique and Gabby Garcia watch investigators at the scene of a mass shooting at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, Nov. 5, 2017.
more +

The alleged shooter, a 26-year-old man, is also dead after the massacre at First Baptist Church, bringing the total number of fatalities to 27, authorities said.

Here's what we know about the shooting:

Tragedy at church

Emergency personnel respond to a fatal shooting at a Baptist church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, Sunday, Nov. 5, 2017. (KSAT via AP)The Associated Press
Emergency personnel respond to a fatal shooting at a Baptist church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, Sunday, Nov. 5, 2017. (KSAT via AP)

The attack began at about 11:20 a.m., after a suspect was seen at a Valero gas station in Sutherland Springs, dressed in all black, the Department of Public Safety said. The suspect crossed the street to the church, got out of his vehicle and began firing at the church, authorities said.

The suspect then moved to the right side of the church and continued to fire, before entering the church and shooting more, authorities said.

Photos: Texas church shooting
SLIDESHOW: Photos: Texas church shooting

As the suspect exited the church, a local resident grabbed his rifle and engaged the suspect, after which he dropped his assault-type rifle and fled, authorities said.

A citizen pursued the suspect, authorities said.

The suspect, who fled in a car, crashed and was later found dead in his vehicle in Guadalupe County, according to the sheriff and the Department of Public Safety. It's unclear whether he died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound or whether he was shot by another person, officials said at a news conference this afternoon at Stockdale City Hall, near the church.

PHOTO: Police vehicles gather at the scene of the SUV where the suspected shooter who opened fire at First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs, Texas, drove off the road and was found dead on Nov. 5, 2017. KSAT
Police vehicles gather at the scene of the SUV where the suspected shooter who opened fire at First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs, Texas, drove off the road and was found dead on Nov. 5, 2017.
more +

Multiple weapons were found in the vehicle, authorities said, adding that the suspect had tactical-type gear and was wearing a ballistic vest.

The threat is believed to be over, Wilson County District Attorney Audrey Gossett said.

Authorities did not discuss a motive at this afternoon's news conference.

PHOTO: Law enforcement officers gather in front of the First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs after a fatal shooting, Nov. 5, 2017, in Sutherland Springs, Texas. Darren Abate/AP
Law enforcement officers gather in front of the First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs after a fatal shooting, Nov. 5, 2017, in Sutherland Springs, Texas.
more +

14-year-old girl among the victims

Among those killed was a 14-year-old girl named Annabelle Renee Pomeroy, according to her father, Frank Pomeroy, who is a pastor at the church.

Annabelle “was one very beautiful, special child,” Pomeroy told ABC News by phone.

PHOTO: Annabelle Pomeroy, 14, was killed during a shooting at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, Sunday, Nov. 5, 2017. Her father, Frank Pmeroy is the pastor, but was not there at the time of the shooting.Courtesy Sherri Pomeroy
Annabelle Pomeroy, 14, was killed during a shooting at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, Sunday, Nov. 5, 2017. Her father, Frank Pmeroy is the pastor, but was not there at the time of the shooting.
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Pomeroy said he was in Oklahoma this morning, a rare weekend that he wasn't at the church.

The other victims are all close friends of his, he said.

Last Sunday, Pomeroy delivered a sermon at the church, encouraging parishioners to "lean on the Lord," even when circumstances don't make sense.

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart and do not rely, or lean, on your own understanding," he said. "You see God's understanding is far greater and there may be things that are taking place that you don't understand but you still need to do what God's calling you to do."

PHOTO: A woman prays with a man after a fatal shooting at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, on Nov. 5, 2017.Nick Wagner/Statesman.com
A woman prays with a man after a fatal shooting at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, on Nov. 5, 2017.

14-year-old daughter of pastor among victims in Texas church shooting, father says

Texas church shooting suspect identified

Texas shooting: Pastor encouraged members to lean on God in last week's sermon

Texas church mass shooting leads to calls for prayer -- and gun control

'We heard several shots and we all started running'

A woman who said she works at a gas station across the street from the church told ABC News she heard rapid gunfire around 11:15 a.m.

Congregants fled the church and ran to the station cowering for cover, she said.

PHOTO: A grab made from aerial video shows first responders on site at First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs in Sutherland Springs, Texas, Nov. 5, 2017 after reports of a mass shooting.KSAT
A grab made from aerial video shows first responders on site at First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs in Sutherland Springs, Texas, Nov. 5, 2017 after reports of a mass shooting.
more +

“We heard several shots and we all started running inside the store,” said the woman, 49, though but declined to give her name.

“It lasted about 15 seconds," she said. "I yelled, ‘Get down, get inside,' and we all went into hiding.”

Within minutes of the gunfire, emergency personnel arrived at the scene, she said.

A church turns into a crime scene

Police formed a perimeter around the First Baptist Church and flooded its grounds with emergency and police vehicles, according to ABC San Antonio affiliate KSAT-TV. Agents from the FBI and the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives have responded to the scene.

PHOTO: Law enforcement officials works at the scene of a fatal shooting at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, Nov. 5, 2017. Nick Wagner/Statesman.com via AP
Law enforcement officials works at the scene of a fatal shooting at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, Nov. 5, 2017.

A small group of people were seen clustered together outside the small, white church, holding hands and attempting to pray, a KSAT reporter said.

Paul Buford, a pastor at another church in Sutherland Springs, told KSAT his congregation was in the middle of their service at River Oaks Church when they started getting calls about the shooting.

Members of his church who are first responders rushed out while the rest of the congregation immediately started praying.

A portrait of the shooter emerges

The shooter was identified as Devin Kelley, 26, of New Braunfels, Texas, which is about 35 miles from Sutherland Springs, federal and state law enforcement sources told ABC News.

The investigation into his background is unfolding. The suspect’s Facebook profile appeared to show a picture of an AR-15–style gun. The U.S. Air Force confirmed Kelley served from 2010 until his discharge, which the Department of Defense's service verification website reports was in 2014. Ann Stefanek, an Air Force spokeswoman, said records confirmed Kelley served in the logistics readiness department at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico.

Trump and Texas officials react

President Donald Trump, who is in Japan, began his remarks to business leaders in Tokyo by addressing the shooting as "an act of evil" in a "place of sacred worship."

"Together we join hands we lock arms and through the tears and through the sadness we stand strong," Trump said.

He tweeted earlier, "May God be w/ the people of Sutherland Springs, Texas."

Trump has been briefed “several times” and is continuing to receive regular updates, White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders said.

"This will be a long, suffering mourning for those in pain," Abbott said at this afternoon’s news conference. “We ask for God's comfort, for God's guidance and for God's healing for all those who are suffering.

"As governor I ask for every mom and dad at home tonight, that you put your arm around your kid and give your kid a big hug and let them know how much you love them knowing that we support each other.”

Abbott said earlier in a statement, "Cecilia and I want to send our sincerest thoughts and prayers to all those who have been affected by this evil act. I want to thank law enforcement for their response and ask that all Texans pray for the Sutherland Springs community during this time of mourning and loss."

PHOTO: Sutherland Springs, Texas, was the scene of a church shooting, Nov. 5, 2017.ABC News
Sutherland Springs, Texas, was the scene of a church shooting, Nov. 5, 2017.

Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton said in a statement, "The thoughts and prayers of all Texans are with the people of Sutherland Springs as tragic reports come out of First Baptist Church."

"Please join Angela and me as we pray for those impacted by this horrific shooting,” Paxton said.

3 church shootings in 3 years

The massacre in Texas is at least the third deadly shooting at a U.S. church in the past three years.

In June 2015, white supremacist Dylann Roof shot and killed nine black churchgoers during a Bible study at the Emanuel AME Church in Charleston, South Carolina. Roof was sentenced to death this January.

In September 2017, a gunman allegedly stormed the Burnette Chapel Church of Christ in Antioch, Tennessee, fatally shooting a woman in the parking lot before entering the church sanctuary, shooting and wounding six people.

ABC News' Jack Date, Pierre Thomas, Mike Levine, Aaron Katersky, Meghan Keneally, Michael DelMoro, Katherine Faulders and Joi-Marie McKenzie contributed to this report.


Church shooting in rural Texas now among top 5 deadliest gun massacres in US history

    By M.L. NESTEL
    ANDREA MILLER
    Meghan Keneally

Nov 5, 2017, 6:27 PM ET

PHOTO: Law enforcement officials gather near the First Baptist Church following a shooting on Nov. 5, 2017 in Sutherland Springs, Texas.PlayErich Schlegel/Getty Images
WATCH Deadliest mass shootings in modern US history

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Sunday morning's shooting in a rural Texas church is among the deadliest gun massacres in modern U.S. history.

At least 26 people were killed at the First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs, about 40 miles southeast of San Antonio.

That ties it with the Sandy Hook School shooting as the fourth deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history.

Four of the top five gun massacres on the list - including the deadliest in Las Vegas just over a month ago -- occurred in just the past year and a half.

The country "has experienced an increase in mass casualty attacks" wrought by mentally troubled individuals "who commit mass murder in furtherance of some perceived grievance or ideological cause," John Cohen, a former counterterrorism coordinator for the Department of Homeland Security and consultant for ABC News, said after the massacre in Las Vegas that killed 58.

At least 26 dead, 20 injured in shooting at rural Texas church

Las Vegas shooting death toll rises to 58, no apparent connection to international terror

ABC News has compiled a list of the 10 deadliest mass shootings.

1. Route 91 Harvest Festival, Las Vegas, Nevada - 58 deaths - Oct. 1, 2017

PHOTO: People run from the Route 91 Harvest country music festival, Oct. 1, 2017, in Las Vegas.David Becker/Getty Images
People run from the Route 91 Harvest country music festival, Oct. 1, 2017, in Las Vegas.

Paddock, from Mesquite, Nevada, was identified by authorities Monday as the lone gunman holed up in the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino hotel room, packing as many as 19 guns. At around 10 p.m. he opened fire upon thousands of country music concert attendees below a hotel room, killing 59 people and injuring more than 500.

2. Pulse Nightclub shooting, Orlando, Florida - 49 deaths - June 12, 2016

PHOTO: Ernesto Vergne prays at a cross honoring his friend Xavier Emmanuel Serrano Rosado and the other victims at a memorial to those killed in the Pulse nightclub mass shooting a few blocks from the club early Friday, June 17, 2016, in Orlando, Fla.David Goldman/AP Photo
Ernesto Vergne prays at a cross honoring his friend Xavier Emmanuel Serrano Rosado and the other victims at a memorial to those killed in the Pulse nightclub mass shooting a few blocks from the club early Friday, June 17, 2016, in Orlando, Fla.
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At around 2 a.m. Omar Mateen, a 29-year-old former security guard, fired bullets and killed 49 people who were inside of an Orlando gay nightclub called Pulse. During the rampage, Mateen, who was a U.S. citizen, was killed by responding police in a shootout. Mateen's ISIS-inspired hate crime injured more than 50 people. Law enforcement sources told ABC News Mateen's wife, Noor Mateen, had tried to dissuade her husband from committing the act. She was charged with aiding and abetting him, as well as committing obstruction. Mateen has pleaded not guilty.

3. Virginia Tech University shooting, Blacksburg, Virginia - 32 deaths - April 16, 2007

PHOTO: An injured person is carried out of Norris Hall at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, Va., April 16, 2007. Seung-Hui Cho, a senior at the school, killed 32 people before killing himself. Alan Kim/The Roanoke Times/AP
An injured person is carried out of Norris Hall at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, Va., April 16, 2007. Seung-Hui Cho, a senior at the school, killed 32 people before killing himself.
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Virginia Tech senior Seung-hui Cho, 23, purchased a 9mm Glock handgun on March 13, 2007, and a .22-caliber gun within a week before he started shooting people at the Blacksburg, Virginia, campus, including five professors and 26 fellow students. The South Korean-born young man began his rampage inside a dorm room, where two students were shot and killed. Cho, according to police, rearmed at his dorm room and left a note before going out and killing 30 more people in four classrooms, He then turned a gun on himself.

4. Sandy Hook shooting, Newtown, Connecticut - 26 deaths at Newtown, Connecticut, Sandy Hook Elementary School - Dec. 14, 2012

PHOTO: Kyra Murray holds a photo showing victims of the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School during a press conference at the U.S. Capitol calling for gun reform legislation, Sept. 18, 2013, in Washington, D.C. Win McNamee/Getty Images
Kyra Murray holds a photo showing victims of the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School during a press conference at the U.S. Capitol calling for gun reform legislation, Sept. 18, 2013, in Washington, D.C.
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Adam Lanza was 20 years old when he entered Sandy Hook Elementary School armed with a bulletproof vest, two semi-automatic handguns, a Glock and a Sig Sauer, as well as a semi-automatic rifle. He breached the school by shooting out a window pane of the front office, then gunned down and killed 26 people, including 20 first-graders and six adult school staff members. Not included in the death count is the murder of Lanza's mother Nancy Lanza, who police say was slain before the young man arrived at the school, as well as Adam Lanza, who took his own life at Sandy Hook.

5. First Baptist Church church shooting, Sutherland Springs, Texas - at least 26 deaths - Nov. 5, 2017

PHOTO: Law enforcement officials works at the scene of a fatal shooting at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, Nov. 5, 2017. Nick Wagner/Statesman.com via AP
Law enforcement officials works at the scene of a fatal shooting at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, Nov. 5, 2017.

At least 26 people were killed and 20 others were injured when a shooter opened fire at the First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs. Further details of the deadly shooting in the rural community, which lies about 30 miles southeast of San Antonio, were not immediately clear.

6. Luby's Cafeteria car ramming and shooting, Killeen, Texas - 23 deaths - Oct. 16, 1991

After slamming his Ford Ranger truck into the window of Luby's Cafeteria, 35-year-old George Jo Hennard reportedly said “This is what the women of Bell County made me do,” according to the Killeen Daily Herald. He then started firing his guns and murdered 23 people, and left 20 more wounded. Ten of Hennard's victims were killed by single shots to the head. Once police responded, Hennard retreated to a restroom, where he committed suicide.

7. McDonald's massacre, San Ysidro, California - 21 deaths - July 18, 1984

James Oliver Huberty entered the fast food chain armed with a long-barreled Uzi, a pump-action shotgun and a handgun and took the lives of 21 adults and children while injuring 19 others, including an elderly person and a baby, according to the San Diego Tribune. An hour after the shootings, a police sharpshooter killed Huberty, reported the San Diego Tribune. Before he went out to commit mass murder, he reportedly told his wife, "I'm going hunting... Hunting for humans," according to the New York Daily News.

Tied for 8. University of Texas Tower Shooting, Austin, Texas - 14 deaths - Aug. 1, 1966

PHOTO: Sgt. Robert W. Turner, 50, of the University of Texas police, looks at the spot on the observation tower of the administration building where Charles J. Whitman was gunned down by police in Austin, Aug. 1, 1966. AP Photo
Sgt. Robert W. Turner, 50, of the University of Texas police, looks at the spot on the observation tower of the administration building where Charles J. Whitman was gunned down by police in Austin, Aug. 1, 1966.
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U.S. Marine sniper Charles Joseph Whitman lugged a cache of rifles, pistols and a sawed-off shotgun up to the observation deck of the university's landmark clock tower. He then fired at will, striking unsuspecting students. He killed 14 people and wounded at least 30.

Whitman’s terror was ultimately foiled after police officers Ramiro Martinez and Houston McCoy shot him dead.

Including the murders of his wife and mother, whom he killed earlier that day, the death toll stands at 16.

Tied for 8. San Bernardino mass shooting, Inland Regional Center at San Bernardino, California - 14 deaths - Dec. 2, 2015

PHOTO: A victim is wheeled away on a stretcher following a shooting that killed 14 people at a social services facility, Dec. 2, 2015, in San Bernardino, Calif.David Bauman/The Press-Enterprise via AP
A victim is wheeled away on a stretcher following a shooting that killed 14 people at a social services facility, Dec. 2, 2015, in San Bernardino, Calif.
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Husband and wife Syed Rizwan Farook, 28, and Tashfeen Malik, 27, dressed in tactical gear and armed themselves with assault rifles and pistols when they entered a mandatory Christmas party at the social services center, where Syed worked, and fatally shot his unarmed colleagues.

The couple killed a total of 14 people at the party, then fled the center and died in a hail of bullets on a San Bernardino street when cops caught up to their car.

On the day of the attack, FBI agents later confirmed, the couple had researched ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi online. The shooting left 14 dead and at least 17 injured.

Tied for 8. Edmond Post Office shooting, Edmond, Oklahoma - 14 deaths - Aug. 20, 1986

Patrick Henry Sherrill, 44, was a part-time postman who returned to his office a day after receiving a “poor performance” review. Armed with three handguns, Sherrill entered the federal building through the back and shot anyone in sight. He murdered 14 fellow postal workers 10 minutes before fatally shooting himself in the head. Authorities later determined Sherrill was angry that he might lose his job.

ABC News' Meghan Keneally and Chris Donovan contributed to this report.
Title: At least 4 dead after gunman ‘randomly picking targets’ goes on shooting rampage
Post by: RE on November 14, 2017, 03:16:39 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/education/wp/2017/11/14/officials-say-at-least-3-dead-after-shooting-at-multiple-scenes-including-california-elementary-school/?utm_term=.5a225bef72ef (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/education/wp/2017/11/14/officials-say-at-least-3-dead-after-shooting-at-multiple-scenes-including-california-elementary-school/?utm_term=.5a225bef72ef)

Education
At least 4 dead after gunman ‘randomly picking targets’ goes on shooting rampage in Northern California
By Mark Berman and Susan Svrluga November 14 at 5:40 PM


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Official: Multiple deaths in Northern California shooting
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Tehama County Assistant Sheriff Phil Johnston said at multiple people were killed and several students at a school were injured after a shooting in rural Northern California on Nov. 14. He also said the shooter had been killed by law enforcement. (KRCR)

At least four people were killed Tuesday morning in Northern California when a gunman shooting at random began firing at multiple locations, targeting an elementary school and a woman driving her children to school during the rampage, authorities said.

This latest burst of gunfire to terrorize a community — which came on the heels of particularly deadly mass shootings in Nevada and Texas — unfolded without an immediate explanation or motive, as a gunman spewed bullets across what police described as “a very widespread area.”

Ten people were injured and taken to local area hospitals, including at least two children, one of whom was at the elementary school, police said. No children were among those killed in the attack, which only ended when law enforcement officers, responding to the carnage, fatally shot the gunman.

The bloodshed began shortly before 8 a.m., Phil Johnston, an assistant sheriff in Tehama County, told reporters. Police received “multiple 911 calls of multiple different shooting sites, including the elementary school” in Rancho Tehama Reserve, a small area about 135 miles north of Sacramento, he said.

“It was very clear early on that we had a subject that was randomly picking targets,” Johnston said.

[The persistent crime that connects mass shooters: Domestic violence]

Johnston said police did not immediately know what may have motivated the attack, which stretched across at least seven locations. Officials believe they have identified the shooter, though they were working to confirm the man’s name, Johnston said.

The gunman, who was previously known to law enforcement, did not appear to have any “real connection to any of the victims,” Johnston said.

While details about what led up to the gunfire remained unclear, Johnston said authorities were told by neighbors that “there was a domestic violence incident” involving the suspected attacker. He later said police were “aware of reports” that this incident occurred a day before the shootings.
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Johnston also said there appeared to be an ongoing “neighborhood dispute” involving the attacker, who had a residence in Rancho Tehama.

After the first gunfire on Tuesday morning, Johnston said, the attacker “took a vehicle and went on a shooting rampage throughout the community.”

No children were killed in the attacks, Johnston said, but at least two boys were injured. One was shot and wounded when the gunman, who was outside the school, began firing rounds into the building. Another boy was shot while riding in a truck “that was driving down the road along with a female adult” who was driving her children to school, Johnston said. Both children were among those taken to area hospitals.

Johnston said victims were attacked with no clear explanation. The woman driving her children to school had passed the gunman’s car when “he opened fire on them without provocation or warning,” Johnston said. She suffered “very life-threatening wounds,” while her child in the back seat did not suffer life-threatening wounds, he said.

“It’s a very sad day for us here in Tehama County,” Johnston said.
Play Video 1:22
Official: At least three killed and several injured in Northern California shooting
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Tehama County Assistant Sheriff Phil Johnston said at least three people were reported killed and several students at a school were injured after a shooting in rural Northern California on Nov. 14. He also said the shooter had been killed by law enforcement. (Action News Now)

The ages of those killed and wounded were not immediately released by authorities.

Enloe Medical Center said it had five patients from the shooting, three of whom were treated and released Tuesday. Two remained hospitalized by the afternoon, according to a spokeswoman for the hospital. While their ages were not immediately available, the hospital had said earlier in the day it was treating at least three children.

After the shooting, Johnston said police recovered a semiautomatic rifle and two handguns believed to be used by the shooter. The FBI said it was sending teams to help local authorities respond to the shooting, and  the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said it was dispatching special agents to the scene as well.

The shooting rampage in California comes as many are still struggling with the psychic and physical wounds left behind by recent mass shootings at other seemingly safe places across the country.

Last week in Texas, a gunman attacked a small church outside San Antonio during Sunday morning services, killing 26 people and injuring 20 others. A month earlier, a gunman in a high-rise Las Vegas hotel suite opened fire on the crowd at a country-music festival far below, killing 58 and injuring hundreds more in the deadliest mass shooting in modern American history.

[Mass shootings in America]

This latest public attack occurred in Rancho Tehama Reserve, a rural subdivision described on its website as “a quiet private country community in the heart of Tehama County, California.”

Gov. Jerry Brown (D) said in a statement that he and his wife were “saddened to hear about today’s violence in Tehama County, which shockingly involved schoolchildren. We offer our condolences to the families who lost loved ones and unite with all Californians in grief.” Vice President Pence posted in a message on Twitter that the White House would monitor the situation, provide federal support and “pray for comfort & healing for all impacted.”

After the gunfire, worried parents were trying to get to their children at the school, according to a reporter with Action News Now, a local news operation.

A school official in California confirmed on Tuesday that there were injuries following the shooting but did not immediately provide further information.

Local Headlines newsletter

Daily headlines about the Washington region.

“There was an active shooter out there earlier this morning,” said Jeanine Quist, an administrative assistant with the Corning Union Elementary School District. “There were some confirmed injuries.

“We are cooperating with local law enforcement — we don’t have any confirmed information at this point,” but a statement from the superintendent will be forthcoming when more is known, she said.

Quist said about 10:30 a.m. local time that parents were able to get to the school to see their children.

Jennifer Jenkins contributed to this report, which has been updated with new information.
Title: Searching for Motives in Mass Shootings
Post by: RE on December 02, 2017, 03:17:31 AM
https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/searching-for-motives-in-mass-shootings (https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/searching-for-motives-in-mass-shootings)

Daily Comment
Searching for Motives in Mass Shootings

By Elif Batuman

November 27, 2017

(https://media.newyorker.com/photos/5a14749ae0e3161d1d3640c5/master/w_649,c_limit/Batuman-Searching-for-Motives-in-Mass-Shootings.jpg)
The mass-shooting epidemic is, without question, an urgent call for gun control. It’s also an invitation to think about why so many Americans would commit such acts in the first place.
Photograph by Elijah Nouvelage / AFP / Getty

By all accounts, mass shootings are now claiming more American lives than at any other point in the past thirty-five years. The most recent, on the morning of November 14th, in Rancho Tehama, California, left five victims and the shooter dead and twelve wounded, including six children. Data indicates that mass shootings are contagious and predictable, and that many killers share certain features—notably, as in the case of the shooting earlier this month at a church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, a history of domestic violence. The Journal of the American Medical Association has repeatedly described gun violence as an epidemic, and gun-rights groups have repeatedly fought to undermine this view. In 1996, the National Rifle Association successfully lobbied the Republican Congress to limit funding for gun-related research by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. JAMA recently estimated that research into gun violence receives just 1.6 per cent of the funding that one would expect, given the annual death toll.

The government’s failure to enact gun-reform legislation and to allocate appropriate public-health funding is symptomatic of a broader failure to conceive of these mass killings as an epidemic: that is, as a single problem affecting our country. This failure is particularly apparent in the way we talk about motive. On November 5th, after Devin Patrick Kelley killed twenty-six people in Sutherland Springs, a news alert on my phone notified me that officials were “searching for motive.” It was immediately clear to me that this search would end in one of a few ways. If the shooter had mentioned ISIS, the motive would be deemed political; if he were nonwhite, it would be racial. If he were white and hadn’t mentioned ISIS, there might be a domestic or family-related motive, or mental illness, or a bizarre, mysterious lack of motive. Each motive would, in effect, limit the number of people whose problem the killing was. Yet it is impossible to imagine a political terrorist act that is free of personal motives or domestic implications, just as it’s impossible to imagine a domestic crime that doesn’t reflect ideology. And it’s a tautology that every mass shooting involves some degree of mental illness: we would surely count as worthless any definition of mental wellness that was compatible with murdering civilians.

The deficiency of the current categories of motive is particularly evident in the case of Omar Mateen, a twenty-nine-year-old Afghan-American who is said to have abused his widow and a former wife, to have made homophobic remarks, and who, on June 12, 2016, called 911 and claimed affiliation with ISIS, before shooting to death forty-nine people at a gay night club in Orlando that he himself may have frequented. Was Mateen’s crime personal or political? As the Times put it, “Was the killer truly acting under orders from the Islamic State, or just seeking publicity and the group’s approval for a personal act of hate?” The phrasing is problematic, because it implies an essential difference between personal opportunists and “real” terrorists—as if real terrorists were motivated not by things that happened to them in their own lives but by disinterested ideology, hatred of freedom, or membership in an “axis of evil.”

In Sutherland Springs, the question of motive was resolved more speedily: Kelley’s reason for killing twenty-six people was determined to be a dispute with his mother-in-law. As the regional director for the Texas Department of Public Safety put it, “This was not racially motivated, it wasn’t over religious beliefs. There was a domestic situation going on within the family and the in-laws.” (The mother-in-law wasn’t at the service that day, though her own mother was and died there. Kelley, an Air Force veteran, had previously been court-martialled for assaulting his wife and his stepson.)

Yet it is odd to describe a church shooting as a “domestic situation.” It is odd to consider a “domestic” motive as proof against a political or ideological agenda. What ideological group, least of all ISIS, has been silent on the subject of domestic life and the role of women? A logical error is built into the very term “domestic violence,” which suggests that murderous rage directed at female relatives is a household affair, private, apolitical, not useful as a predictor of public violence. To view the murder of women as “domestic” is itself ideological, and surely some strain is placed on such a view by the case of a man shooting at a church full of strangers along with his grandmother-in-law. (Among the Rancho Tehama shooter’s first victims were his wife and a female neighbor.)

With Stephen Paddock, who shot and killed fifty-eight people in Las Vegas, in early October, authorities have found no motive. In the weeks and years before the crime, Paddock apparently exhibited no signs of political or religious extremism, no symptoms of mental illness (though the fact that he had stockpiled semiautomatic weapons for decades might be viewed, in retrospect, as a symptom). Paddock was accordingly classified, as a Muslim or a black shooter would not have been, as a sort of human enigma. A CNN headline alluded to “The unknowable Stephen Paddock and the ultimate mystery: Why?” Another article—“One month later, Las Vegas massacre is still a mystery”—placed the shooting “in stark contrast” to the subsequent “deadly truck attack in New York City, where there were clear ideological or religious motives.”

The “clear ideological or religious” case was that of Sayfullo Saipov, a twenty-nine-year-old Uzbek national who drove onto a bike path in lower Manhattan on Halloween, killing eight pedestrians, came out of the truck shouting “Allahu akbar,” and was shot by the police. Saipov’s ideological tendencies, like Mateen’s, were a recent development. In his home city of Tashkent, Saipov was a law-abiding citizen with a hospitality degree from a well-known university, working at a large hotel catering to foreigners. In 2010, he won the green-card lottery and came to the United States on a diversity visa. He married another Uzbek immigrant, started a family, and, unable to find hotel work, moved from city to city, driving trucks.

Over the years, the Times reported, Saipov had racked up a series of traffic tickets, “the closest thing to snapshots of how Mr. Saipov lived.” In Iowa, in 2011, he waited for thirty-five minutes for officers to check his truck; in 2014, he was “stopped for more than an hour for having a cracked windshield and for missing a reflective device.” On multiple occasions, he was stopped at a Nebraska weigh station, where he got tickets for “driving too long without required rest and for carrying a load just slightly more than allowed.” In October of last year, Saipov was briefly jailed in Missouri for an unpaid traffic ticket. That was around the time that he started planning an attack. Repeated bureaucratic experiences with traffic fines is a familiar American story. But Saipov shouted “Allahu akbar,” and he had downloaded ISIS videos, so his motive was religious and ideological. Since his motive was religious and ideological, it was not personal or economic or a mystery.

Of the mass killings in Orlando, Las Vegas, New York, Sutherland Springs, and Rancho Tehama, the two committed by ISIS-invoking Muslims are categorized as terrorist acts; the three committed by white men are “domestic,” a “mystery,” or, in the case of the Rancho Tehama shooter, Kevin Neal, “bizarre.” Donald Trump has used these categories to justify a double standard of responses: terrorist acts are justification for an immigration crackdown, but for a “domestic issue,” mental illness, or “pure evil,” as the President classified the Las Vegas shooting, there is no remedy. As the Governor of Kentucky, Matt Bevin, tweeted, in response to calls for gun regulations after Las Vegas: “You can’t regulate evil.”

The mass-shooting epidemic is, without question, an urgent call for gun control. It’s also an invitation to think about why so many Americans are trying to shoot up night clubs, churches, and schools in the first place. (Research suggests that a lack of gun regulation is the major, but not the only, determining factor in gun-related deaths: the average American is three hundred times more likely than the average Japanese to die by gun homicide or by accidental shooting—but only a hundred and fifty times more likely to own a gun.) It’s an invitation to tell one story about a shared problem that affects every American.

Thinking about the different ruptures that prevent this story from being told, I was reminded of a line from James Baldwin’s “No Name in the Street,” from 1972: “I have always been struck, in America, by an emotional poverty so bottomless, and a terror of human life, of human touch, so deep that virtually no American appears able to achieve any viable, organic connection between his public stance and his private life.” For Baldwin, this disconnect originates in Americans’ need “to safeguard their purity” at all costs—to go to any cognitive length in order to deny that they have profited, and continue to profit, from the suffering of others. How, Baldwin asks, can white Americans live normal lives among the descendants of the slaves who built their wealth? How, for that matter, can men live normal lives alongside women, whose sacrifices and labor were invisible for so many years? How can immigrants from poor and war-torn countries live normal lives as Americans? What Baldwin calls “the failure, in most American lives, of the most elementary and crucial connections” is reflected in the stories we tell, and in the larger stories we don’t tell.

Given our predilection for isolated issues and personal pathologies, it is no surprise that the brain of the Las Vegas shooter has been sent to the Stanford University Medical Center for forensic examination. “I think everybody is pretty doubtful that we’re going to come up with something,” Hannes Vogel, Stanford’s chief of neuropathology, told the Times. “The possibilities, neuropathologically, for explaining this kind of behavior are very few.” The initial autopsy by the Clark County coroner turned up no visible abnormalities, contrary to hopes expressed by the gunman’s brother. “I hope to hell that they find when they do the autopsy that there’s a tumor in his head or something,” Eric Paddock told reporters, “because if they don’t, we’re all in trouble.”

    Elif Batuman has been a staff writer at The New Yorker since 2010.Read more »
Title: A REAL Postal!
Post by: RE on December 24, 2017, 12:08:49 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/24/ohio-postal-workers-slayings-stun-friends-family-members.html (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/24/ohio-postal-workers-slayings-stun-friends-family-members.html)

Ohio postal workers' slayings stun friends, family members
By Dom Calicchio | Fox News

(http://a57.foxnews.com/images.foxnews.com/content/fox-news/us/2017/12/24/ohio-postal-workers-slayings-stun-friends-family-members/_jcr_content/par/featured_image/media-0.img.jpg/931/524/1514092579814.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)
U.S. Postal Service mailboxes are seen in Encinitas, Calif., Feb. 6, 2013.  (Reuters)

Relatives and friends of two Ohio postal workers slain by a disgruntled co-worker were at a loss to explain the violence that occurred Saturday morning.

Police said DeShaune Stewart, 24, of Columbus, was charged with killing his supervisor at a post office in Dublin, Ohio, and then killing the Dublin postmaster outside the Columbus apartment complex where she lived.

Both killings were regarded as acts of “workplace violence,” police said, adding that they believed Stewart regarded the victims as being to blame for his impending dismissal from his job.

Stewart was naked and carrying a weapon at the time of both killings, which occurred about three hours and four miles apart, authorities said.

“He should have never died the way he died,” Lisa Gonzales said about her brother, Lance Herrera-Dempsey, 52, the supervisor and U.S. Army veteran who was one of the victims, the Columbus Dispatch reported.

Police said Stewart arrived at the Dublin post office around 4:30 a.m. -- three hours early -- approached Herrera-Dempsey, and shot him. When the supervisor fell to the floor, Stewart shot him again, killing him, police said.

About three hours later, Stewart – again naked and armed – was seen chasing postmaster Ginger Ballard, 53, around a parking lot, the Dispatch reported.

Then Stewart threw her to the ground, where she struck her head and died, according to police.

“I just don’t understand; I loved her so much,” friend Terri Rivera wrote on Facebook about Ballard, the Dispatch reported. “I pray for all of you who she touched.”

Stewart has been charged with aggravated murder for fatally shooting Herrera-Dempsey in Dublin and with murder for killing Ballard in Columbus, police said.

Patrol officers arrested Stewart shortly after Ballard was killed. They recovered a handgun after he tried to run away, police said.

The Associated Press contributed to this story.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Palloy2 on December 24, 2017, 12:31:43 AM
That a page took 2.5 minutes to download.
Attention spans wanes after 2.5 seconds.
Title: Florida shooting: FBI and teachers 'warned' about Nikolas Cruz
Post by: RE on February 15, 2018, 08:07:23 AM
Everybody KNEW he was a psycho, and he still buys a gun legally? ???  :icon_scratch:

RE

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43071710 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43071710)

Florida shooting: FBI and teachers 'warned' about Nikolas Cruz

(https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/103E6/production/_100043566_2517b58e-44aa-4850-aa28-eca574c6ca4a.jpg)
    38 minutes ago

Related Topics

    Florida school shooting

Image copyright Handout
Image caption Nikolas Cruz was a former student at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School

The FBI was warned about the teenager who allegedly carried out a mass shooting at his former school in Florida, the BBC understands.

Nikolas Cruz, who has been charged with 17 counts of premeditated murder, reportedly left a comment on a YouTube video last year stating: "I'm going to be a professional school shooter."

A user alerted authorities to the post.

Teachers were also warned about Mr Cruz, who was not allowed on campus with a backpack, US media report.

    Florida shooting: Live updates

Seventeen people were killed and many more were injured in the attack at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida. Several people are in a critical condition.

It is the deadliest shooting at a US school since 2012.

After seeing a comment on a YouTube post last year by Mr Cruz, 19, user Ben Bennight contacted the FBI with his concerns. He said he spoke to representatives there for about 20 minutes.

Mr Bennight said that the FBI had contacted him again following the school shooting in Parkland.

The FBI has not yet commented on the reports.
Media captionStudents can be seen cowering from the attack
What was the warning to teachers?

Maths teacher Jim Gard told the Miami Herald that school authorities had emailed teachers about Mr Cruz's behaviour.

"We were told last year that he wasn't allowed on campus with a backpack on him," Mr Gard told the Miami Herald.

"There were problems with him last year threatening students, and I guess he was asked to leave campus."

    Is it time to arm teachers?

Image copyright AFP/ GETTY IMAGES
Image caption The school's 3,000 students were almost at the end of their day when the attack broke out

School officials have not disclosed why Mr Cruz was expelled from the school, but student Victoria Olvera, 17, told the Associated Press it was because of a fight with his ex-girlfriend's new boyfriend.

She also claimed he had been abusive towards the ex-girlfriend.

Former schoolmate Joshua Charo said Mr Cruz had been found with bullets in his backpack.

"I can't say I was shocked," Mr Charo said.
Image copyright WPTV
Image caption Nikolas Cruz was arrested an hour after the attack

"He seemed like the kind of kid who would do something like this."

Some other students echoed that opinion when interviewed.

"Everyone predicted it," one told WFOR-TV.

But police said they were not warned of any possible attack by Mr Cruz.

Superintendent Robert Runcie told reporters: "We received no warnings.

"Potentially there could have been signs out there. But we didn't have any warning or phone calls or threats that were made."

According to reports Mr Cruz told the family he was staying with that he did not want to go to college because it was Valentine's Day.
What happened at the school?

Reports suggest that a fire alarm at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, was deliberately set off at 14:30 local time (19:30 GMT).

The alarm caused some students and staff to leave their classrooms.

Witnesses said that the gunman was deploying smoke grenades and wearing a gas mask.

Students told US media they hid under desks or in store cupboards or barricaded doors as loud shots rang out.

    Florida shooting: A survivor's story
    How the school attack happened

'There may be no answer'

By Owen Amos, BBC News

At first, it seems like a normal day in Parkland, Florida. The sky is blue. The palm trees are green. And the temperature is rising.

But, on approaching Stoneman Douglas High, it is clear that nothing is normal about today.

The yellow school buses are parked up, going nowhere. The soccer fields are empty. TV trucks line the neat verges.

While the high school is closed, the nearby elementary school is open. Parents hold their children's hands tightly as they dodge cameramen.

Lanny James, 77, has a place five miles away in Margate. He comes here for the sun; today, the temperature was 25C by 09.30 local time.

He was playing golf when he heard the news. "I just love South Florida," he says, adding: "This is supposed to be paradise."

Lanny, a semi-retired broadcaster, has 10 guns and has hunted since the 1960s.

"I just don't know what the answer is," he says. "And there may not be one."

A teacher told WSVN that she hid in a closet with 19 students for 40 minutes - and that the school underwent training for such a situation six weeks ago.
Media captionStudents describe fleeing school as shots rang out

Caesar Figueroa, a parent, told CBS News his daughter was hiding in a closet when she called him.

He told the news outlet that he told her not to call him because he did not want the gunman to hear her voice.

"It's the worst nightmare not hearing from my daughter for 20 minutes, it was the longest 20 minutes of my life," Mr Figeuroa said.

Police and Swat team members swarmed the campus and began clearing students from the school, as parents and ambulances converged on the scene.

    Harrowing accounts of school shooting

Mr Cruz apparently left the scene of the shooting by blending in with fleeing students, but was arrested several miles away and is now in police custody.

He was detained in the nearby town of Coral Springs. He was then treated in hospital and taken into police custody.
Who were the victims?

Details of the 17 victims are emerging as they are identified.

The school's assistant football coach Aaron Feis was taken to hospital after jumping in front of students to shield them from bullets. His team tweeted that he had "died a hero".
Skip Twitter post by @MSDEagles
Report

End of Twitter post by @MSDEagles

    Coach Aaron Feis 'died a hero'

What else do we know about the suspect?

Broward County Sheriff Scott Israeli said Mr Cruz's social media profiles were "very, very disturbing".

Two separate Instagram accounts, now deleted, purport to show Mr Cruz posing with guns and knives.

Mr Cruz had been staying with a local family in recent months, following his adopted mother's death in November.

He allegedly used an AR-15 rifle in the attack, which he had bought legally and which he kept locked up in their house at their request.

The family's lawyer, Jim Lewis, said: "They are heartbroken. The kid that lives here goes to that school and knows many of these kids. He is just as heartbroken and shocked as everyone else."

    What we know about Florida shooting suspect

Media captionHow countries around the world introduced restrictions following mass shootings
What's the reaction been?

President Donald Trump said the shooting showed that people must report their concerns about others' erratic behaviour.
Skip Twitter post by @realDonaldTrump
Report

End of Twitter post by @realDonaldTrump

Florida Senator Marco Rubio tweeted that the shooting was "designed and executed to maximize loss of life".
Skip Twitter post by @marcorubio
Report

End of Twitter post by @marcorubio

But he said that it was too soon to debate whether tighter gun laws could have stopped it.

"You should know the facts of that incident before you run out and prescribe some law that you claim could have prevented it," he told Fox News.

    Call for policy change: 'Prayers not enough'
    Senators singled out over gun lobby funds

Florida Governor Rick Scott said the shooting was "pure evil", but also refused to be drawn into a discussion about gun control.

"There's a time to continue to have these conversations about how through law enforcement... we make sure people are safe," he said.

Florida's Democratic Senator Bill Nelson asked what it would take "for enough to be enough".

"Sandy Hook, Pulse nightclub, [Fort] Lauderdale airport, Las Vegas and now Parkland, Florida - when is this going to stop?" he wrote on Twitter.

Democratic Senator Chris Murphy tweeted that it was time to debate gun violence, adding that political leaders needed to act to prevent "this slaughter".
Skip Twitter post by @ChrisMurphyCT
Title: Re: Florida shooting: FBI and teachers 'warned' about Nikolas Cruz
Post by: Surly1 on February 15, 2018, 08:27:56 AM
Everybody KNEW he was a psycho, and he still buys a gun legally? ???  :icon_scratch:

RE

Sure. Because freedumb. The ability ofr a known threat and psychopath to putchase an AR-15 is how a nation afflicted with Brandon Smith disease can reassure itself that it is free.

//
    Is it time to arm teachers?

As our lords and masters at the NRA have it, "only a good psychopath with a gun can cunter a bad psychopath with a gun."

//
Florida's Democratic Senator Bill Nelson asked what it would take "for enough to be enough".

"Sandy Hook, Pulse nightclub, [Fort] Lauderdale airport, Las Vegas and now Parkland, Florida - when is this going to stop?" he wrote on Twitter.

Democratic Senator Chris Murphy tweeted that it was time to debate gun violence, adding that political leaders needed to act to prevent "this slaughter".

Thoughts and prayers.
Title: Re: Florida shooting: FBI and teachers 'warned' about Nikolas Cruz
Post by: RE on February 15, 2018, 08:36:59 AM

Sure. Because freedumb. The ability ofr a known threat and psychopath to putchase an AR-15 is how a nation afflicted with Brandon Smith disease can reassure itself that it is free.

BS is no threat.  He's a Paper Tiger.  However, this jerk was a clear threat and everyone knew it.  He had to apply for a license to buy that gun.  It should have been nixed right there.  Conspiracy wise, I would say he was allowed to buy the gun because they knew he would in fact go nuts with it.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: K-Dog on February 15, 2018, 09:38:45 AM
Quote
    Florida shooting: A survivor's story
    How the school attack happened

'There may be no answer'

Really?

(https://www.motherjones.com/wp-content/uploads/AP3608141879-630.jpg)

An estimated 15,000–20,000 people showed up for what would be the last public execution in the United States.

Around 5:20 a.m., August 14, 1936, Rainey Bethea was led to the gallows in Owensboro, Kentucky for robbing, raping and murdering Lischia Edwards, a 70 year old woman. Bethea was black, Edwards was white. He confessed to committing the crimes, but was only charged with the rape. Unlike a murder conviction, which would have carried a maximum sentence of death by electrocution at the state penitentiary, a rape conviction allowed for the convicted to be publicly hanged in the county where the crime occurred.

Lets not be talking about Rainey and his skin color and the appropriateness of his punishment.

Rehabilitation of a panty-waste that kills 17 is as ridiculous as thinking appropriate gun control will stop people from going crazy.   Such thinking solves nothing.

A few hours of excruciating agony 'Braveheart" style followed by an ignominious death will produce social disgust.  This will be the natural reaction to justice by sanctioned murder.  Disgust will be directed against the shooter.  This will all result in crazy people finding new and less deadly ways to express themselves at the end of the day.

So this pig can suffer and die.  But on an objective note.  Did he have any role models?

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/batman/images/4/49/MyCard_The_Joker.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/316?cb=20120815195525)

By god he did.  Too bad he was as dumb as a cow.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Surly1 on February 15, 2018, 09:42:39 AM
More purposeful than "thoughts and prayers."

A shame the NRA would never permit it.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on February 15, 2018, 09:58:22 AM
More purposeful than "thoughts and prayers."

A shame the NRA would never permit it.

R U Kidding?  The NRA would be all for Torture and Public Executions.

RE
Title: School Shooter Simulation courtesy of the DHS 🙄
Post by: RE on February 15, 2018, 10:10:58 AM
H/T to an r/collapse poster u/gar_bar.  Unbelievable.  Collapse in action.  ::)  Waiting for the X-Box Game next.  Guaranteed big seller!

http://www.youtube.com/v/0BMo2Ulm4PQ

RE

So who besides me is going to say that the simulation has NO place in an investigation.  Most people are going to confuse the simulation with reality which it may only portray crudely and innacuratly.

For entertainment only!
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on February 15, 2018, 02:12:30 PM
More purposeful than "thoughts and prayers."

A shame the NRA would never permit it.

R U Kidding?  The NRA would be all for Torture and Public Executions.

RE

No problem getting the NRA on board. Just make it firing squads instead of hanging, and they'd be ecstatic.
Title: 🔫 What Will It Take for Sensible Gun Control?
Post by: RE on February 16, 2018, 12:23:27 AM
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/gun-control-what-will-it-take-w516785 (https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/gun-control-what-will-it-take-w516785)

What Will It Take for Sensible Gun Control?

No amount of killing seems to be enough for Congress to take action

(https://img.wennermedia.com/article-leads-horizontal-800/gettyimages-918330158-b169baf5-f7e3-4abf-8dc9-80f40d5600d3.jpg)
Students evacuate Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School after yesterday's mass shooting. Joe Raedle/Getty
By David S. Cohen
11 hours ago
     
   
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In the wake of yet another mass shooting in America, the predictable responses are already pouring in. The do-nothing crowd of NRA-funded Republican politicians are mechanically offering their utterly meaningless "thoughts and prayers" and blaming everything and anything other than guns. Meanwhile, the gun control crowd (of which I'm a proud member) is once again urging politicians to do something, anything, to try to quell the bloodshed. Fox News commentators then complain that it's too early to politicize the tragedy. We gun control types say, "If not now, when?" And then nothing happens other than another school shooting a few days later. This is the state of mass gun violence in modern-day America.
Related
Stop Making Mass Murder a Meme

'Thoughts and prayers' aren't enough – but sarcastic and outraged reactions to them aren't much better

This cycle is depressing, and it's literally killing us. So how do we get out of it? How can we move the stubbornly immovable guns-above-all-else crowd into action? Maybe with this one simple question: "What will it take to get you to agree to gun control?"

Ask that question, and see what the answer is. Because right now, what's going on is clearly not enough for the "thoughts and prayers" crowd. Regular school shootings is not enough. Killing 20 six and seven year olds in elementary school is also not enough. Over 500 injured and almost 60 killed at an outdoor concert in Las Vegas and 50 killed at a night club in Orlando – also not enough. Mass shootings at colleges, movie theaters, churches, temples, office buildings, restaurants, post offices, community centers, homes, and other places – not enough. Not even a shooting of a Republican member of Congress at a GOP baseball practice was enough to move politicians into action.

So what if the gun violence happened more frequently? What if there were multiple school shootings every day? And what if each one of them was like yesterday's or like Sandy Hook, with about 20 kids killed? Would that be enough to spur people into action? Maybe when 40 or more school kids are killed every single day, Congress will find a way to act. But then again, maybe they would once more do nothing.

So let's talk about grand totals. Every year in this country, about 35,000 people die from guns. About 13,000 of them are by homicide and the other 21,500 by suicide. Clearly, based on the lack of action from Congress and other politicians, these people's lives aren't enough. But what if these numbers were doubled? If instead of 35,000 people per year, it was 70,000? And if that number's not high enough, how about 200,000 people per year? Or 500,000? Or 5 million? Those high numbers are clearly far-fetched, but let's consider them anyway. Would 1.5 percent of the American population dying every year from gun violence be enough to make us finally enact gun control?

If the answer to any of these hypotheticals is yes, then the natural response is this: why isn't what's happening now enough? Anyone who thinks that the hypotheticals above would move them from no to yes on gun control is saying that the lives of the people being killed now are just not worth enough, the losses of their families just not compelling enough. They'll do something, but only when there's even more misery and violence than there is now.

But if the answer to "what will it take?" is that nothing can change their mind, then anti-gun control folks are saying that mass shootings everywhere in the country just don't matter. That killing scores of school kids every day would not be worth changing anything. That guns slaughtering millions of Americans every year wouldn't move them. If the answer to "what will it take?" is nothing, if they really think that outrageously high numbers of people being killed by guns won't matter, then that person is admitting that human life is absolutely valueless when weighed against possession of a gun. They are saying that people don't matter, only guns do. Anyone walking down this road should both a) be forced to articulate this position clearly and then b) be shunned from public life entirely.

I've made it clear in the past that I want extreme measures in response to gun violence – such as repealing the Second Amendment to the Constitution – and I strongly urge people who agree with me to that extent, or even to a lesser extent, to do more to voice these opinions. To me, we as a country must act on this issue immediately. Sensible gun control, even while keeping the Second Amendment, should be easy, but there are too many politicians who refuse to act. To all of them, and to their supporters, we must ask this simple question – "what will it take?"
Title: Re: 🔫 What Will It Take for Sensible Gun Control?
Post by: Surly1 on February 16, 2018, 04:43:20 AM
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/gun-control-what-will-it-take-w516785 (https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/gun-control-what-will-it-take-w516785)

What Will It Take for Sensible Gun Control?

No amount of killing seems to be enough for Congress to take action

"Thoughts and prayers" motherfucker. Meanwhile, at the root of the problem...

"AND WHAT ABOUT VIRTUAL REALITY?"
All the things Fox News blamed the Parkland shooting on other than the gun...
(https://qz.com/1208530/parkland-florida-shooting-fox-news-blamed-the-school-massacre-on-everything-except-the-ar-15/)

"AND WHAT ABOUT VIRTUAL REALITY?"

All the things Fox News blamed the Parkland shooting on other than the gun

OBSESSION
Propaganda
February 15, 2018

Seventeen people were gunned down at a high school in Parkland, Florida yesterday (Feb. 14) in the 18th school shooting in the United States this year. The alleged shooter, a 19-year-old former student of the school who was expelled for violent behavior, posted disturbing images of guns and knives on social media, and reportedly had expressed white supremacist sentiments to classmates.

He was still able to legally purchase the AR-15 military-style rifle used in the massacre. But you won’t hear much about that if you watch Fox News.

Instead, the Fox News response to the horrific shooting was an exercise in avoiding that one fact—a coordinated effort to intentionally and specifically frame the tragedy as a security issue and not a gun issue. While railing against advocates for gun control for “politicizing” the tragedy, the network’s stable of talking heads were far quicker to blame the school’s administration, its security guard, the shooter’s parents, drugs, and the students themselves than they were the machine the shooter used to kill 17 people.

“You could stop a person with an AR-15 with a slingshot if you know how to use it.”

This morning on Fox & Friends, Andrew Napolitano, a former judge with no military or law enforcement experience, suggested that all it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a…. slingshot?

Napolitano recommended training and arming teachers in the US like they do in Israel as part of the country’s compulsory military service. “All the teachers have been in the IDF, the Israeli Defense Forces, every adult, except for certain religious groups, spends time there,” he said. “In that time period they are trained and select teachers, quietly, not ostentatiously, are armed and quietly trained.”

It’s unclear whether this training includes slingshots, but when Fox host Ainsley Earhardt asked Napolitano about the fact that shooters in Las Vegas and Sandy Hook also used the AR-15, that’s where he went. “Yes. It’s a very powerful weapon. I know this weapon,” Napolitano replied. “It’s the civilian version of an M-16. It’s very, very powerful. But you could stop a person with an AR-16 with a slingshot if you know how to use it.”

Another segment, on Fox News last night, was effectively a six-minute sales pitch for the AR-15:

“It shoots very straight, you can carry more ammunition in it. It’s actually a very safe weapon.”

Fox News host Laura Ingraham had the “security expert” Aaron Cohen on her show, The Ingraham Angle, to discuss the AR-15 rifle used hours earlier in the Parkland shooting. In addition to Las Vegas and Sandy Hook, it was the same gun used in many other mass shootings, including in Sutherland Springs, Orlando, and San Bernardino.

“This is a security issue,” Cohen said. “It’s not a weapon issue.”

The AR-15 is popular for self-defense, Cohen said, citing the same qualities that would make it attractive to a potential mass murderer. “It shoots very straight, you can carry more ammunition in it,” he said. “It’s easier to shoot than a pistol. It’s got more points of contact for stability.”

After all this praise of the gun, Cohen went on to point to those he felt were truly to blame: the parents of alleged shooter Nikolas Cruz and the school’s security system.

“Where’s the parents? Who raised this kid?” Cohen asked. (At the time of the shooting, Cruz was an orphan. His adoptive mother died in November, while his father died in 2004. He had been living at a friend’s house since November.)

Cohen then implied that the school’s armed security guard, who never encountered the shooter during the rampage, was somehow at fault for not having searched every student for such a weapon upon entering the school: “Open the jacket. Check the bag,” Cohen said. “If this kid has his jacket opened, or the bag was opened, you’re not getting in with an AR.”

Ingraham ended the segment by noting that Cruz had “followed the Iraqi fighters online.” Without elaborating on what she thinks that means, she observed, “There’s something going on there.” (Today, the Associated Press reported that Cruz was actually a member of a Florida white supremacist group. That report has not been corroborated by law enforcement officials.)

An “antique weapon” can “do the same amount of damage” as the AR-15

Ingraham also trotted out Mark Fuhrman, a former Los Angeles police detective best known for perjuring himself during the O.J. Simpson murder case, to talk about the AR-15. Furhman said that the weapon is not inherently any more dangerous than weapons created more than 100 years ago.

“If a suspect chooses that weapon and you take that weapon away, they’ve been making weapons since about 1908 that are automatic fired weapons that can, you know, deliver just as much fire power and almost as fast as an AR-15,” he said. He did not specify which weapons from 1908 are as effective at killing a large number of people in quick succession as a modern AR-15 military-style rifle.

“And what about virtual reality?”

Tammy Bruce, a radio commentator who last year called an autistic child a “snowflake,” joined the fun on Fox & Friends to provide a tangent on prescription drug abuse in the US. Despite there currently being no indication that the alleged shooter had abused drugs or was under the influence of drugs during the shooting, Bruce blamed drugs for the shooting.

“They’re psychotropics,” Bruce said. “They affect the mind. We know, of course, that how adults respond to these drugs are different than how young people do.” She also blamed “violent imagery” in the years since September 11, 2001 for creating a culture of violence among young people.

“And what about virtual reality?” Fox host Brian Kilmeade chimed in.

“Throw chairs, throw desks, throw your backpacks.”

The US Department of Homeland Security’s protocol for dealing with an active shooter is first “run,” then “hide,” then, as an absolute last resort, “fight.” Once all other options are completely exhausted, US law enforcement recommends taking action against the shooter as aggressively as possible in an attempt to disrupt or incapacitate him.

So, in theory, at least, it’s not necessarily egregious to suggest that, as a last resort, people should throw objects at a rampaging shooter. But listening to Fox News host Tucker Carlson and former FBI national spokesperson John Iannarelli speculate about the options that the children in Parkland, Florida had, one gets a sense that the specifics of the situation don’t particularly matter—so long as you’re not blaming guns.

Before much about the specific circumstances have emerged, Carlson and Iannarelli walked through a number of safety scenarios, and Iannarelli suggested that perhaps people could have thrown desks or backpacks at the shooter to stall him and then run away. Of course, this may well have not have been an available option for the victims—and for all he knows, they did do that.

(It should also go without saying that “throwing backpacks,” or any other object, is not a feasible strategy in many shootings, including the Las Vegas massacre last year in which a man killed 58 people and injured 850 others by firing at long range on a crowded concert from the 32nd floor window of a nearby hotel.)

All Fox News seems sure about is that mistakes were made. And that none of those mistakes had anything to do with selling a weapon capable of such massive, rapid human destruction to a clearly disturbed young man.

Correction: An earlier version of this story said that Cruz reportedly had ties to a local white supremacist paramilitary group. The Tallahassee Democrat reported that law enforcement official sources could not find any link between Cruz and the group but were still investigating.

 

 

Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on February 16, 2018, 07:15:25 AM
I was discussing this with my Social Justice Warrior son last night, and he mentioned something I think might be important,

The Vegas shooter was a real outlier in terms of age. School shooters are almost always young. People under 30 need to EARN the right to possess firearms.

It's almost all males, too, of course. My view is that it's a lack of early firearms training. I got such training, from my father, very early in life, because we were hunters, and hunting safety was very paramount in his mind (my maternal grandfather actually died in a hunting accident, so it wasn't a theoretical problem).

I remember being very upset with my 10-12 year old school friends when they decided to have BB gun "wars". I was taught (like before I could walk, almost) that it was strictly forbidden to point a gun at a human, ever. I learned this with toy guns, and pointing a toy gun at anyone would have meant an instant adminiteering of punishment (of the corporal variety). By the time I got to real guns, it was ingrained.

Now kids play shooting video games that teach them to kill indiscriminately, for the fun of it.. Such games should be taken off the market. There is no doubt in my mind that this CONDITIONS some susceptible individuals to commit acts of violence.

It's not just guns. It has to do with how kids are raised.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Surly1 on February 16, 2018, 07:24:39 AM
I was discussing this with my Social Justice Warrior son last night, and he mentioned something I think might be important,

The Vegas shooter was a real outlier in terms of age. School shooters are almost always young. People under 30 need to EARN the right to possess firearms.

It's almost all males, too, of course. My view is that it's a lack of early firearms training. I got such training, from my father, very early in life, because we were hunters, and hunting safety was very paramount in his mind (my maternal grandfather actually died in a hunting accident, so it wasn't a theoretical problem).

I remember being very upset with my 10-12 year old school friends when they decided to have BB gun "wars". I was taught (like before I could walk, almost) that it was strictly forbidden to point a gun at a human, ever. I learned this with toy guns, and pointing a toy gun at anyone would have meant an instant adminiteering of punishment (of the corporal variety). By the time I got to real guns, it was ingrained.

Now kids play shooting video games that teach them to kill indiscriminately, for the fun of it.. Such games should be taken off the market. There is no doubt in my mind that this CONDITIONS some susceptible individuals to commit acts of violence.

It's not just guns. It has to do with how kids are raised.

I think you have nailed it, or a big part of it.

Even as a son of the city, I got a certain amount of gun safety coming up. Especially the dictum to NEVER POINT A GUN AT ANYBODY. Contrast that with the prevalence of shooter games today.

To say nothing of the "I got mine, you go fuck yourself for yours" ethic that pervades every aspect of public life.

Dafuq?
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on February 16, 2018, 10:06:00 AM
Don't forget all the mega violent and realistic movies going back to Sam Peckinpaw's "The Wild Bunch".

http://www.youtube.com/v/_ysVoV3x5Zo

...not to mention Arthur Penn's "Bonnie & Clyde"

http://www.youtube.com/v/NrmUpso_xT8

...and here's the Top 10 Movie Shoutouts, described as "AWESOME" by the obviously Millenial reviewer.

http://www.youtube.com/v/pIJ3NKHfi4U

That is 50 solid years of the glorification of violence in movies, and it goes back further than that to all those Westerns with First Nations people being indiscriminately killed by Cowboys, even in the silent film era.  I played "Cowboys & Indians" as a kid and I DID point my toy gun at the opponent.  Then the arguments ensued.  "You're dead".  "No, you're dead".  ::)

Culturally speaking, any shred of respect for the lives of others has long been wiped away.  However, most of us who played Cowboys & Indians as kids AND who were exposed to these movies did not turn out to be school shooters nor were they so prevalent even just 10 years ago, so there is more to it psychologically than this.  To me, the main difference now is a systemic sense of Hopelessness in this generation of HS/College age adolescents.  It's a manifestation of the psychology of Collapse.

RE
Title: Your Daily Campus Shooter Report
Post by: RE on February 16, 2018, 11:18:36 AM
http://www.kiro7.com/news/local/highline-college-locked-down-for-reports-of-gunfire-on-campus/701283395 (http://www.kiro7.com/news/local/highline-college-locked-down-for-reports-of-gunfire-on-campus/701283395)

DES MOINES, Wash. - Highline College is on lockdown after reports of gunfire on campus. There are no known victims, according to South King Fire, and it has not been confirmed that gunshots were fired.

Follow this link to see photos of the large police response at the scene.

All classrooms and offices have been locked down since 9:05 a.m. Friday.

Find live updates below.

Highline College is about 17 minutes south of Seattle in Des Moines, Wash. It has about 17,000 students and was founded in 1961 as the first community college in King County.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: K-Dog on February 16, 2018, 12:40:21 PM
I am in a crowded cafeteria and nobody is talking about it.  I suspect firecrackers.  That is how the Chinese are taking over.  They come here with firecrackers and buy their way in.  Then under the pretense of a Chinese New Year they light their firecrackers and say ‘Stupid America Sucker’ in Mandarin and have a great time,

They went at it for five minutes straight at midnight last night.  This is the first day of the Chinese New Year.  Year of the Dog!
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on February 16, 2018, 01:07:35 PM
I was born in the Year of the Sheep, which explains a lot about people my age, I guess.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: K-Dog on February 16, 2018, 06:01:59 PM
I was born in the Year of the Sheep, which explains a lot about people my age, I guess.

But this is the year of the Dog!  I’m hoping for a bone or two this year.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: g on February 16, 2018, 06:08:47 PM
I was born in the Year of the Sheep, which explains a lot about people my age, I guess.

But this is the year of the Dog!  I’m hoping for a bone or two this year.

                                     (http://www.alettertomydog.com/wp-content/uploads/dog-bone.jpg)
                                                       Enjoy  :exp-grin:
Title: 🔫 American Carnage
Post by: RE on February 18, 2018, 12:08:14 AM
https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/02/16/american-carnage/ (https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/02/16/american-carnage/)

February 16, 2018
American Carnage

by Jeffrey St. Clair

http://www.youtube.com/v/i_LevZMCRdE

Americans have a remarkable tolerance for child slaughter, especially the mass murders of the children of others. This emotional indifference manifested itself vividly after the disclosure of the My Lai Massacre, when dozens of Vietnamese infants and children were killed by the men of Charlie Company, their tiny, butchered corpses stacked in ditches. After the trial of Lt. William Calley, more than 70 percent of Americans believed his sentence was too severe. Most objected to any trial at all. In the end, Calley served less than 4 years under house arrest for his role in the execution of more than 500 Vietnamese villagers.

Twenty-five years later, American attitudes toward child deaths had coarsened even harder. When it was revealed that US sanctions on Iraq had caused the deaths of more than 500,000 Iraqi children, Bill Clinton’s Secretary of State, Madeleine Albright, icily argued that the deaths were “worth it” to advance US policy in the Middle East. Few Americans remonstrated against this official savagery done in their name.

Now the guns are being turned on America’s own children and the rivers of blood streaming out of US schools cause barely a ripple in our politics. If the Columbine shooting (1999) was a tragedy, what word do you use to describe the 436th school shooting since then?

Don’t look for an answer or even solace from any of our political leaders. All you’ll get is cant, hollow prayers and banal vituperations of the sort we’ve been hearing for two decades from the likes of Nancy Pelosi. Pelosi’s most restrictive gun control proposals wouldn’t have stopped any of the recent shootings. She plays politics with the blood of children as cynically as the NRA’s Wayne LaPierre. Both are adept at fundraising off the bodies of the dead.

Even the RussiaGaters seized the opportunity to turn Vladimir Putin into one of Nikolas Cruz’s co-conspirators. Democratic blowhard Eric Boehlert, formerly of Clinton defense team Media Matters, tweeted: “key Q: how much $$$$$ did @NRA accept from Russia in 2016?”

In these moments of national trauma, Donald Trump can be counted on to open his mouth only to extract one foot and insert the other. This week his creaky mandibles got quite the workout. First, he was goaded into mumbling his generic opposition to wife-beating. Then only a day later he had to summon the energy to sputter out scripted condolences for the victims and families of the mass shooting at Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida.

In the past, Trump has railed against what he—or Steve Bannon—called the “American carnage.” Of course, this week’s slaughter isn’t the kind of “carnage” that Trump was referring to, since it was committed by a MAGA-hat wearing teen from the suburbs, who was trained in the proper use of rifles by an NRA grant funded shooting program. From an operational perspective, the only thing missing was the silencer hawked by Trump’s idiotic son, Donald Jr. Trump’s urban villains, naturally, use knives, brass knuckles and switchblades.

One might be tempted to cut Trump some slack. After all, his political options were constricted. He couldn’t possibly be expected to talk about the fact that this is the 239th school shooting since Sandy Hook (2012). He couldn’t speak about the 438 people who have been shot in schools since Sandy Hook. Or the 138 people who have died in school shootings since Sandy Hook. Why? Because most of Trump’s hardcore base don’t believe the Sandy Hook massacre really happened. They believe it was a fake shooting staged by the gun cops of the Deep State. Next week, they will be saying the same thing about the Parkland slayings. The Trump presidency levitates on such dark fantasies. Better to keep the messaging simple.

So Trump could only say that the killings were the work of a teenager who was “mentally disturbed.” His bland, six minute homily deftly avoided the word “gun.” It couldn’t have slipped Trump’s mind that one of his first acts as president was to sign into a law a measure over-turning an Obama-era ban on the sale of guns to people with mental disabilities. Thus, instead of endorsing any measure to restrict the sale of guns to the insane, Trump called on his American subjects to become mental health snitches, to profile potential psychopaths and report suspicious “instances to authorities, again and again!” Can we start with the president? Do we dial 1-800-Deranged? Will Jeff Sessions pick up the line?

By most accounts, Nikolas Cruz was a troubled kid, who led a creepy life that was spiraling into acts of increasingly sadistic violence. Both of his adopted parents had died and Cruz was living a dead-end existence in a friend’s basement, while working a nothing job at the Dollar Tree store. He had apparently been treated for depression, but walked away from his therapy sessions. There’s no word yet on whether, like so many other shooters, he’d been fed anti-depressants. It’s when you come off the serotonin uplifters that the real trouble usually starts.

Society had turned its back on Cruz. He was one of the expendables, cut adrift by his school, which wasn’t equipped to deal with his deep psychological problems, to freefall without any safety net to catch him. But when he hit bottom, he returned with a vengeance to the very institution that had rejected him.  Now we’re told to keep watch for others just like him. How many are out there, one bad experience from snapping and going full-auto at a mall or a schoolyard?

I try to summon some empathy for Nikolas Cruz, but can’t.  Cruz tortured animals, threatened fellow students and openly bragged about his desire to kill people. This man should never have possessed even an pop gun, but on his minimum-wage job he was able to walk into a gun store and legally buy an AR-15 assault rifle and multiple magazines of ammunition. He made no effort to conceal his simmering animus or his arsenal of weapons. It’s all up on Youtube and Facebook. Cruz was even reported to the FBI, which, typically, didn’t pursue the lead. The FBI prefers to devote its resources to investigating crimes it orchestrates itself.

If you’re looking for the tragedy in all of this, it’s to be found in the fact that the same implements of mass death used at My Lai are entirely legal to buy, sell and own in the US fifty years later. In fact, these weapons are sanctified in American culture. AR-15 medallions hang like crucifixes from the necks of thousands of Americans. We have stepped in death so deep we’ve made a virtue of it.

The American moralists are always carping about personal responsibility. Well, Nikolas Cruz will be tried for his crimes and will likely spend the rest of his miserable life in one of Florida’s hellhole prisons. But who will be held accountable for allowing a monster like Cruz the means to commit them? Those are the people who should be reported to the authorities. The problem is: they are the authorities.

Roaming Charges

  While we’re (momentarily) speaking of gun violence, it’s 45 days into the new year and already 154 people have been killed by police.

  If 17 kids died in a school bus crash and the driver tested positive for marijuana, what do you think J. Beauregard Sessions would blame?

  In the live-action version of Kafka’s “The Trial,” the part of Joseph K. is being played today (as it has been for the last 2,067 consecutive days)  by Julian Assange…

  It looks like Operation Mockingbird never ended. The CIA is arguing that the agency has the authority to selectively declassify secret files and leak them to favored reporters, while denying access to the same documents to other journalists.

  Nearly every mile of US coastline is being opened for oil drilling…what could possibly go wrong?

  Trump’s EPA cited an industry-funded study to rationalize its rollback of diesel emissions. That study is now under investigation for academic fraud. But the rollback rolls on, for those who have $250,000 to exploit the loophole…

  This just in from Hamid Karzai on why the US continues to occupy and bomb Afghanistan:  “The United States is not here to go to a party. There is no need for them to build so many bases just to defeat a few Taliban. They are here because all the great American rivals are in the neighborhood, and we happen to be here, too. They are welcome to stay but not to deceive us…Too many Afghans are dying for an uncertain future,. We are too small and poor to ask the U.S. to stop, but we are a country, and our interests must be respected.” Of course, Karzai’s precise understanding of the metrics of US foreign policy is derided in the western press as a “dark theory.”

  Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats gleaned praise from Democrats this week for doubling down on his assertion that the Russians meddled in the 2016 elections. But lest anyone conclude from these endorsements that Coats is a “rational actor” consider the fact that he followed up those observations with a threat to bomb North Korea, warning that “decision time” is near at hand…

  The corporatization of weed is well underway in California, which means, among other things, that the state is moving to make sure Native Americans don’t get a cut of the action. Same as it ever, ever was…

  Meanwhile, Berkeley just became the nation’s first “marijuana sanctuary city.” As if J. Beauregard Sessions didn’t have enough crises on his plate…

  Blow up the deficit on tax cuts for billionaires and pork for the weapons lobby, then blame the old, the poor and the sick…

  Newsflash from the Karma Wire: election reforms enacted by Democrats in California may end up costing Democrats control of the US House of Representatives in 2018 elections.

  On January 27, hikers in Olympic National Park discovered more than 100 towering old growth trees mysteriously toppled. Sasquatch or climate change?

Photograph by Lara Vychuzhanina.

  Comrade Ken: Well, I’m off to hack into the Idaho voter rolls today, Barbie. Will you be trolling gullible and lonely lefties with your Alice Donovan persona again?

Comrade Barbie: No, I have an assignment tonight at the Moscow Ritz-Carlton. The memo says it may involve wetwork.

Comrade Ken: Gun, garrote or knife?

Comrade Barbie: Not that kind of wetwork, Ken.

  So Trump’s military parade may cost $30 million–that’s if the Abrams’ Tanks don’t crumple the pavement on Pennsylvania Avenue. Perhaps Trump consigliere Michael Cohen could write the check?

  Cohen admitted that he paid Stormy Daniels $130,000 out of his own pocket to keep the porn queen quiet about her assignations with Donald Trump, the alleged entanglements of flesh occurring shortly after Melania gave birth to Barron. Don’t know yet if that figure includes a lifetime subscription to Forbes magazine or the rights to Stormy’s shiny gold dress, but one hopes that Trump at least pitched in for the tip…

  The pentimento (literally: “I repent”) under that Obama portrait….

  Where we see drones, Sean Hannity sees something that he finds much more unnerving: sperm…

  Another dubious record for the Peace Prize Prez: Obama’s arms exports more than doubled Bush’s.

  The gap between black and white home ownership is wider now than at any time since the end of Jim Crow. This grim trend is not happening by accident…

  Newsflash from the Karma Wire: Elk in Utah downs helicopter.

  Meanwhile, back at Uday and Qusay’s gun club the neighbors are suffering from PTSD.

  Remember when Don Jr. became a pitchman for “silencers” so that “little kids can get into the game”?

  In the latest magical pronouncement from the Wizard of the Soundproof Booth, EPA director Scott Pruitt declares the burning of wood products to be “carbon neutral.”

  Pruitt the Snowflake insists on flying first class, because he’s been subjected to angry critiques of his previous magical pronouncements from the plebes back in coach, where the atmosphere is “politically toxic.” One passenger scolded, “Scott Pruitt, you’re fucking up the environment!” The truth hurts, doesn’t it Scott?

  Brave New Democrats! A Pew poll shows that Democrats now view both the CIA and the FBI more favorably than Republicans by wide margins. Only 12 percent of Democrats perceive any stains on the agency.

  Not the most appalling thing I’ve read this month, but close: “Cops Across America are Getting Thank You Plaques for Helping to Crush Standing Rock Protests.”

  The rather blasé Oregon congressional delegation, led by Ron “the Weenie” Wyden, has somewhat surprisingly amassed a huge following on Facebook and Twitter. Unfortunately, most of their fans are fake…

  Political Science is to Science, What Kenny G is to Jazz, which, of course, didn’t stop Trump from making 31-year-old Michael Kratsios his top science advisor….

  80 of Trump’s 87 judicial nominees for the federal bench are white. That’s 91.2 percent. Non-Hispanic whites account for 63 percent of the US population. In other words: Black Robes, White Justice.

  It is likely that there is less extant sea ice today than at any time since the dawn of human “civilization.”

  Yes, this woman’s husband is “running” the economy…

  Trump once called for a travel ban over an outbreak of Ebola virus which had killed no Americans. Now, as a vicious flu epidemic kills 4,000 a week, the president proposes slashing the CDC’s budget by 10 percent…

  Another case of eviction by execution, this time involving an 84-year old veteran…

  Did Melania’s parents benefit from “chain migration“?

  One of the most ridiculous paragraphs ever written. Of course, the author is David Brooks:

    In the first half of the 1990s, I worked in Europe for The Wall Street Journal. I covered nothing but good news: the reunification of Germany, the liberation of Central Europe, the fall of the Soviet Union, the end of apartheid in South Africa, the Oslo peace process in the Middle East. Then, toward the end of my stay, there was one seemingly anomalous episode — the breakup of Yugoslavia.

  The latest trendy fashion among the office-bound tribe of post-modern environmental historians is to postulate that species extinction is no big deal ecologically or morally. The great Carl Safina sets the record straight.

  Israeli leaders now openly proclaim their darkest intentions to suppress the rights of its Arab citizens in order to maintain a Jewish majority. Here are the defiant words of Ayelet Shaked, who serves as Israel’s Justice (yes, Justice) Minister: “There are places where the character of the State of Israel as a Jewish state must be maintained and this sometimes comes at the expense of equality.”

  From the “You Can’t Make This Shit Up” Dept.: Virgin Atlantic Airlines removed the word “Palestinian” from the couscous dish on its menu, after complaints from Jewish and Israeli passengers.

  Beauregard rides again…! Speaking at the National Sheriffs Association, Jefferson B. Sessions rhapsodized over the “Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement,” tracing the word “sheriff” back to the reeves of the English shires. But most British punks have a better sense of etymology than the Attorney General. They know that “sheriff” derives from the Arabic “sharif,” as in “Sharif, don’t like it…”

  Remember that the torturers at Abu Ghraib learned their sadistic craft as guards in US prisons. School’s still in session…

  California’s water use restrictions should have become permanent 40 years ago–especially for Oprah.

  Newsflash From the Karma Wire…Poacher eaten by lion pride he was hunting.

  The Duterte-Trump summit will be one for the ages, the Dark Ages…

  Being Hope Hicks: “When we landed, it was Hope’s job to steam him. ‘Get the machine!’ he’d yell. And Hope would take out the steamer and start steaming Mr. Trump’s suit, while he was wearing it! She’d steam the jacket first and then sit in a chair in front of him and steam his pants.” From Corey Lewandowski’s Let Trump be Trump.

  This one’s for you, Hunter: Pot sales in Aspen totaled more than $11 million in 2017, beating out liquor sales for the first time.

  The abstract expressionist movement was a men’s club, whose critical ascent was boosted by lavish grants from CIA-financed foundations. The painter Sonia Gechtoff, who died last week at the age of 91, didn’t play by those rules. She was as talented as Pollack or DeKooning, but never held her tongue or hid her politics, as her daughter recalled to the New York Times: “She was not an average mother in that we as her children learned to curse from her and to never hold back on our opinion. I remember her cursing at the TV whenever Lyndon Johnson was on talking about the Vietnam War.”

Over to You, Lou

Booked Up

What I’m reading this week…

Surveillance Valley: the Secret Military History of the Internet by Yasha Levine

Pandemic 1918: The Story of the Deadliest Influenza in History by Catharine Arnold

Palaeoart: Visions of the Prehistoric Past by Zoë Lescaze

Sound Grammar

What I’m listening to this week…

Black Panther (Soundtrack) by Kendrick Lamar, et al.

Nameless by Dominique Fils-Aimé

Raw by Typh Barrow

Live at Club 47 by Doc Watson

A Crow Looked at Me by Mount Eerie

Would You Mind?

Terry Pratchett: “I get it,” said the prisoner. “Good Cop, Bad Cop, eh?”

“If you like,” said Vimes. “But we’re a bit short staffed here, so if I give you a cigarette would you mind kicking yourself in the teeth?” (Nightwatch.)
Title: 🔫 Guns, Violence and the United States
Post by: RE on February 19, 2018, 12:52:16 AM
http://www.greanvillepost.com/2018/02/18/guns-violence-and-the-united-states/ (http://www.greanvillepost.com/2018/02/18/guns-violence-and-the-united-states/)

Guns, Violence and the United States
February 18, 2018 avenger27

(http://www.greanvillepost.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/gun-fair.jpg)

HELP ENLIGHTEN YOUR FELLOWS. BE SURE TO PASS THIS ON. SURVIVAL DEPENDS ON IT.

by ROBERT FANTINA
Let us all take a quick look at the news:

        The White House is in chaos.
        The investigation into possible Trump campaign collusion with Russia drags on.
        The U.S. won some Olympic medals.

Is there anything else? Oh yes:

    + Seventeen people were killed in a school shooting, the eighth such shooting in the U.S. this year (and it is only mid-February), making it hardly newsworthy.

One might think that politicians in the U.S. would take note of this last item. This is not a ‘one-of’, but an ongoing pattern in schools across the country. This latest shooting happened in Parkland, Florida, named ‘Florida’s Safest City’ in 2017.

Florida Senator Marco Rubio offered his thoughts and prayers for the victims; very nice, indeed, but he is one of 50 people who could make changes that might have prevented this, and the seven other such shootings that have occurred this year. Yet he has consistently opposed any kind of gun control. Perhaps the fact that he’s accepted over $3,000,000.00 in campaign contributions from the National Rifle Association (NRA) over the course of his career may have something to do with his opposition to sensible gun laws. Following this latest tragedy, he said that it was too early to discuss gun control, “…because people don’t know how this happened.”

This writer is puzzled by Rubio’s pearls of wisdom. ‘How this happened’ seems quite clear; he will explicate it for the good senator: A man with a semi-automatic weapon, designed to shoot many bullets quickly, thus enabling the person operating it to kill many people quickly if he so chooses, walked into a school, activated the fire alarm so students would come running out of their classrooms, and began doing with his gun exactly what it was built do to. As a result, seventeen people are dead, and dozens more are injured. Seventeen families now must bear unimaginable grief. Thousands of students are now at risk of post -traumatic stress disorder (PTSD); whether or not they will return to that school, or if they will need to be relocated is yet to be determined. School administrators now face a situation they should never have had to experience. But Rubio doesn’t know how this happened.

A year and a half earlier, in June of 2016, Florida had another massacre, this one at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando. Fifty people, including the assailant, were killed and 58 wounded by an assassin using the same kind of gun that was used in Parkland. Republican Governor Rick Scott, another darling of the NRA, said at that time that “…the Second Amendment didn’t kill anybody.” He implied that that shooting was somehow related to ISIS and terrorism, although the perpetrator was U.S. born. And in Florida, it’s easier to purchase an AR-15 than it is to buy a pistol. But the governor, like Rubio, sees no point in doing anything more than offering ‘thoughts and prayers.’

Just this year, there have been at least 31 mass shootings, causing 58 deaths and 124 injuries. These have occurred in high-crime areas and well-to-do neighborhoods. No one is exempt, even people living in the ‘safest city’ in the country.

Also this year, 123 people have been killed by the police, another group for whom guns and gun violence are a way of life.

As of this writing, we are 46 days into the new year. That means that there is a mass shooting in the U.S. every day and a half. It means that more than one person per day dies as a result of a mass shooting. It means that the police in the U.S. kill nearly 3 people every day.

This does not occur in any other nation on the planet. Rich or poor, democratic, socialist, or any other form of government, the U.S. leads in gun deaths.

It is simplistic to say that the availability of guns is the cause; that is merely one of many, and reasonable, sensible gun laws would certainly reduce this tragic number of deaths. But there is an acceptance of violence that permeates U.S. society, and is glorified within it.

In the media and through the words and actions of government officials, soldiers, who are trained to kill, are revered. The more they kill, the greater their respect. A soldier named Chris Kyle, the most deadly sniper in U.S. history, was the subject of a movie showing his ‘heroics’ in killing people. It is ironic that, in 2013, he was shot to death by a fellow soldier suffering from PTSD, who used a gun Kyle owned.

This attitude of reverence for killers is nothing new in the U.S. After Lieutenant William Calley was convicted of murdering hundreds of people in My Lai, Vietnam, he was sentenced to life in prison. Surveys in the U.S. indicated that 79% of the U.S. public thought the verdict was too harsh. He wound up serving for less than four years under house arrest.

Parents, when speaking of their grown children in the military, speak proudly of their ‘service’. Veterans, those who do not regret their time in the military, talk about how they helped ‘keep America free’. Police officers appear to have little concern about their countless victims, or the suffering and grief of the loved ones of those victims. That they act as judge, jury and executioner cannot be denied. Darren Wilson, the police officer who shot and killed the unarmed Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri in August of 2014 described his victim as a demon. He testified thusly: “I looked at his face. It was just, like, intense; was very aggravated, aggressive, hostile.” This is a significant amount of information to be gleaned from a look on a person’s face. He further stated: “You could tell he was looking through you. There was nothing he was seeing.” What this means is anyone’s guess, but it was sufficient for Wilson to determine that Brown had sufficiently bad intentions to warrant his immediate death.

The U.S. movie industry differs from that of many European nations in how it rates films. In the U.S., movies with explicit sex scenes receive R and X ratings, but explicit violence tends to garner a PG-13 or R rating. In many other nations, the reverse is true; younger audience are permitted to see movies with some sex, but are prevented, at least according to the ratings systems, from seeing those with excessive violence.

For these nearly constant acts of violence to end, the U.S. must recognize that killing is not beneficial; U.S. wars only increase hatred towards the U.S., glorifying soldiers only begets violence, and granting impunity to the police for their murders only intensifies hostility towards all police officers.

This mindset will not be easy to change, and will be impossible under the current government. Republicans and Democrats alike share the blame, and as long as it is legal for them to be bribed by ‘campaign contributions’, nothing will change.

ABOUT THE AUTHOR
 Robert Fantina’s latest book is Empire, Racism and Genocide: a History of US Foreign Policy (Red Pill Press).
Title: 🔫 Did President Trump Revoke Gun Background Checks for Mentally Ill People?
Post by: RE on February 19, 2018, 01:02:16 AM
https://www.snopes.com/trump-sign-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-illnesses/ (https://www.snopes.com/trump-sign-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-illnesses/)

Fact Check
Did President Trump Revoke Gun Background Checks for Mentally Ill People?

(https://st2.depositphotos.com/4196725/10966/i/950/depositphotos_109669880-stock-photo-fool-crazy-man-with-gun.jpg)

In February 2017, President Trump repealed an Obama-era regulation that would have made it easier to block the sale of firearms to people with certain mental illnesses.
56K
CLAIM

President Trump signed a bill blocking Obama-era background checks on guns for people with mental illnesses.
RATING
MOSTLY TRUE
ORIGIN

In the wake of a horrific school shooting in Parkland, Florida, that left 17 dead in February 2018, media renewed focus on an Obama-era regulation repealed in the early months of the Trump administration. That rule would have given the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, which is used for gun sales, access to Social Security Administration data including the names of individuals receiving certain federal mental health benefits.

As we explained in a 17 February 2017 post, this rule — which never went into effect before being rescinded — did not change any existing laws regulating who is allowed to purchase guns. It merely would have provided a new way to enforce existing restrictions on gun sales by allowing a transfer of information from one agency to another. There are now, and have been for some time, laws that seek to limit gun sales to anyone “who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution” per Title 18 section 922(g) of the United States Code. However, according to the Associated Press:

    The Obama rule would have prevented an estimated 75,000 people with mental disorders from being able to purchase a firearm. It was crafted as part of Obama’s efforts to strengthen the federal background check system in the wake of the 2012 massacre of 20 young students and six staff at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut.

The rule was rescinded using a legal procedure called the the Congressional Review Act, which, prior to the Trump Administration, was obscure and little-used. It allows regulations passed in the final days of one administration to be rescinded with a simple majority vote in both chambers of Congress during the first 60 days of a new administration. The Senate sent their repeal of the Obama-era measure for Trump’s signature on 15 February 2017 — a year and a day before the Parkland shooting — and Trump signed it into law the next week, on 28 February 2017.

While the law did not change who is required to be the subject of background checks, it is true that Trump signed into law the repeal of a measure that would have plausibly prevented certain classes of mentally ill people from purchasing firearms by allowing a new data source to be included the system that runs those background checks. As such we rank the claim mostly true.
Title: The Gun Violence the Media Shows Us and the State Violence They Don’t
Post by: RE on February 20, 2018, 01:22:50 AM
https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/02/20/the-gun-violence-the-media-shows-us-and-the-state-violence-they-dont/ (https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/02/20/the-gun-violence-the-media-shows-us-and-the-state-violence-they-dont/)

February 20, 2018
The Gun Violence the Media Shows Us and the State Violence They Don’t

by Nick Pemberton

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Photo by Maryland GovPics | CC BY 2.0

Last week there was another tragic mass shooting. The media went on to make this young man a celebrity. Some, including Donald Trump, even painted him as a victim. I still don’t understand why we have to give the names of the shooters in the media. Probably because it makes a better story. CBS head Leslie Moonves said of Trump: “It may not be good for America, but it’s damn good for CBS.” The same can be said for these shootings.  If stardom has anything to do with the shootings, it is irresponsible to make these people into fixtures of the American psyche. Anyone who watches Quentin Tarantino, Clint Eastwood, or most any American blockbuster would get the sense that violence, although tragic, is normal and heroic.

The personal story of this kid shouldn’t surprise us—white nationalist and animal abuser. This “lonely” guy made his vengeful killing on Valentine’s Day, but if he did have a Valentine he may have been like most of his predecessors, a domestic abuser. Republicans, bought by the NRA, talk about mental health (even though Donald Trump repealed an Obama protection on the mentally ill buying guns). The Democrats, who don’t have many organizations left that haven’t bought their silence made sure to rail against the NRA and the GOP. They are right of course but they don’t have much credibility left given how they act 99% of the time.

The mental health issue is valid too but the Republicans are trying to make all of us as mentally ill as they are. Schools are turning into prisons, in both their physical structure and their philosophical one. Prisons themselves are crowded enough to be schools. The argument what kills (guns or people) is a silly one because they both do. Who could deny that Barack Obama was mentally ill as he dropped drones around the world and expanded the nuclear arsenal? But there is also the obvious point that if Obama was the President of say, a garden club, he wouldn’t be killing as many people because he wouldn’t have the weapons to do so (Obama’s Garden Club would be snooty and pretentious I’m sure, even for a garden club).

We do not hear about the mental illness of our Presidents or their financiers (well we do for Trump but that is only because he tweets as morbidly as he acts). We do not hear about the mental illness of the police, ICE, or generals. We do not hear about the mental illness of the gun manufacturers themselves. No, you are only mentally ill if you kill without a badge. As long as you are an agent of the state (and it’s financiers) you are killing for a purpose—for freedom, democracy, safety—so you are sane, you are often even revered.

To a certain extent the cops are being exposed, although little will change until we gain community control of the police. Let’s give full credit to Black Lives Matter here. But we are still quite behind on the issue of war and peace. The idea that football players kneeling during the anthem is somehow patriotic is an absurd argument made by liberals. We shouldn’t just be upset that America can’t grant freedom to us while we send soldiers to fight for it elsewhere—-we should be saying that putting soldiers in other countries is itself a violation of freedom for people abroad.

A life lost is a life lost though, so we should take these shootings seriously. When a mass shooting happens it is always inexplicable. Therefore it needs explanation. Behind every mass shooter must be a story that we could prevent. It was because gun laws were lenient. It was because his mental health was not treated. It was because of a political agenda. All of these things are true and there is no doubt ways to reduce gun violence through reformative change that are important.

What is not said enough is that gun violence is a natural consequence of a society that solves its problems through violence and conquest abroad. A society that promises an American dream and never gives anything in return leaves a trail of despair. A society that defines success as profit off of others no doubt makes others into adversaries. As long as the cost of living a life that does not do these things is so high the soul splinters making the very act of existing in a capitalist society surreal.

All that being said perhaps we are all tired too of the romanticism of the left when the Republican leaders stomp on common decency. Yet we must know that such outbursts from the margins of society are a result of something larger. That cruelty and violence are so often legalized and celebrated in our society that it creates people who take capitalism and its consequences to their logical conclusion. That for every beaten down person there are only so many ways out and most of the easy ones involve bringing other people down.

That is why more than ever we need to embrace the principles of community and peace in our society. Unions are being busted. Schools are being privatized. People are being evicted from their neighborhoods. People are addicted to their screens. Small businesses are going under. The positive, productive, and peaceful ways to revolt against our rulers are being taken away.

When a mass shooting happens it is scary. In our society it could happen anywhere at any time. It is a glitch in an old broken machine. A spurt of anger that could come from anyone with a grievance. The victims are random. There is no meaning to these tragedies. We all feel powerless. Yet we are addicted to the story. How? I knew it. But how?

Along with our fear comes a rational for our protection. More gun laws. More surveillance. More wars. More police. More violence that follows rules. More violence that has a chain of command.

If we started to talk to each other again maybe we could see that our enemy is common. Our despair is shared. Instead a hero rises from the ashes. He is misunderstood. He is evil. But he is free. His victimhood is recognized as mental illness. Or at the very least he is recognized as the powerful monster he has become. The rest of us clammer for our own break from the foot of capitalism. It never comes. Except on TV.

Anyone who kills us in the name of chaos and terror should be condemned. Yet the refugees dying everyday as they flee climate change and proxy wars get no coverage. The people who have pipelines running through their yards get no coverage. The slaves in prison get no coverage. Neither do the animals in cages on the big farms. We hear about the monsters next door. The “everyday” Americans lurking behind every corner. If only the intelligence groups could have stopped them they say.

Violence by the rich is slightly more predictable because it aims to control. Certain neighborhoods, certain countries, certain acts of resistance merit your punishment. As long as you behave we will save you from those who act evil. The good (the rich, the police, the bosses) will save you from the bad (the poor, the criminal, the worker).

They want us to be scared of each other. They want us to be angry. They want us to feel defeated and powerless. That doesn’t mean the problem isn’t real. There is an answer. It isn’t to hand over the keys to the people who have created a culture that finds power through violence, connection through individualism, and worth through wealth.

As liberals cower in the age of Trump they turn to the FBI, the CIA, the military and the police. They long for the authoritarian smooth talker Barack Obama. They say it is the everyday people who elected Trump and that it is the everyday people who must be stopped. They want the order of their old lives back. Trump is an authoritarian but he is an unpredictable one. Therefore any of us could get struck by a stray bullet as he lashes out against anybody who challenges him.

Liberals want the guns in the hands of the rich. Chaos in Africa and the Middle East will be ignored. So will police occupation of nonwhite neighborhoods. Despite the United States interfering in elections across the globe, 100,000$ from Russia on Facebook means something “serious” must be done (could we get more ominous?). They say calling a mass shooting by a Muslim “Islamic Extremism” is “racist” but they also say we shouldn’t let even let 1% of their refugee population into the country for fear that it would upset the order of society here.

What the latest shooting tells us is that when we pick up arms we are playing by the master’s rules. We are using the master’s tools. And we are shooting our own schools. The revolution towards peace and equality must be nonviolent. Because it seems that sadly most of us still have no idea who our enemy is.

 
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More articles by:Nick Pemberton

Nick Pemberton is a student at Gustavus Adolphus College. He is currently employed by Gustavus Dining Services. Nick was born and raised in St. Paul, Minnesota. He can be reached at pemberton.nick@gmail.com
Title: 🔫 The AR-15: Weapon of Choice for Mass Shooters
Post by: RE on February 21, 2018, 02:24:50 AM
https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-ar-15-weapon-of-choice-for-mass-shooters/5629687 (https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-ar-15-weapon-of-choice-for-mass-shooters/5629687)

The AR-15: Weapon of Choice for Mass Shooters
By Claire Wang
Global Research, February 19, 2018
WhoWhatWhy 17 February 2018
Region: USA
Theme: Law and Justice, Police State & Civil Rights

http://www.youtube.com/v/Cfff2w8dx0c

(https://www.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/mass-shooting-Florida.jpg)
Featured image: Vigil at Tam High School in Mill Valley for the victims of the school shooting in Parkland, Florida. Photo credit: Fabrice Florin / Flickr (CC BY-SA 2.0)

When news broke Wednesday of yet another horrific mass shooting on school grounds, this time in the upscale community of Parkland, Florida, the all too familiar shock and sorrow were soon replaced by a sense of resignation that nothing would change.

Nikolas Cruz, an expelled student, opened fire in Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School and killed 17 people, three of whom were faculty members. Fourteen teenagers will never go to prom or attend college, but somehow this chapter feels like just another chapter in America’s tragic narrative about gun control instead of a turning point.

Three of the 10 deadliest mass shootings in modern US history have now occurred in the last five months. As with some other mass shootings, a trail of breadcrumbs led up to the Parkland massacre.

The FBI received a tip last September about an ominous YouTube comment from a user with the same full name as Cruz: “I’m going to be a professional school shooter.” After admitting that it couldn’t confidently identify the person behind the account, the bureau apologized Friday for failing to follow up on another tip it received in January from someone close to Cruz who was alarmed by his affinity for violence.

Cruz’s social media account was another clue. It featured images of firearms and a slaughtered toad. In fact, his erratic, often violent behavior so alarmed teachers that they prohibited him from wearing a backpack on campus.

Many an op-ed will be devoted to speculating about the shooter’s motives, which may once again be rooted in psychological dysfunction. But the social and political circumstances that enabled Cruz to execute his plan have remained relatively unchanged in the last six years.

Since the Sandy Hook tragedy in 2012, when 20 first graders were murdered, five of the six deadliest massacres have featured an AR-15, the most popular semi-automatic rifle in the US. The death toll cracked double-digits in every instance.

The popularity of the AR-15 can be largely attributed to its accessibility. Anyone without a criminal record or domestic abuse felony can buy a firearm in Florida. Because the legal age to purchase the AR-15 is 18, Cruz, who is 19, was old enough to buy an assault rifle.

Lax regulations combined with the weapon’s capacity for carnage make the AR-15 the dream weapon for mass shooters. Equipped with box magazines that hold 30 rounds each and can be replaced quickly, the gun can spit more than a hundred rounds in mere minutes.

Given the recent rise in mass shootings, it may not come as a surprise that a majority of Americans support stricter gun laws. But the National Rifle Association’s relentless lobbying and advertising, aimed primarily at the GOP, impedes efforts to enact comprehensive reform. Among the top 100 House beneficiaries of NRA donations, 95 are Republican.

Many of them, along with their colleagues in the Senate, are quick to shower victims with “thoughts and prayers.” What they have not done, however, is limit or ban the sale of semi-automatic weapons or require a mental health check to purchase a gun.

In the videos below, New York Times reporters discuss the AR-15, and ABC News reporter Pierre Thomas explains how the infamous Columbine massacre inspired a generation of copycat shooters.
Title: Brandon "Lexington & Concord" Smith Weighs in on Gun Control
Post by: RE on February 21, 2018, 08:44:11 PM
BS at it again!  ::)

RE

http://www.alt-market.com/articles/3382-mass-shootings-will-never-negate-the-need-for-gun-rights (http://www.alt-market.com/articles/3382-mass-shootings-will-never-negate-the-need-for-gun-rights)

 Mass Shootings Will Never Negate The Need For Gun Rights
Wednesday, 21 February 2018 02:13 Brandon Smith

(http://www.alt-market.com/images/stories/gunrights1.jpg)

Though the media often attempts to twist the gun rights debate into a web of complexity, gun rights is in fact a rather simple issue — either you believe that people have an inherent right to self defense, or you don’t. All other arguments are a peripheral distraction.

Firearms are a powerful epoch changing development. Not because they necessarily make killing “easier;” killing was always easy for certain groups of people throughout history, including governments and organized thugs. Instead, guns changed the world because for the first time in thousands of years the common man or woman could realistically stop a more powerful and more skilled attacker. Firearms are a miraculous equalizer in a world otherwise dominated and enslaved by everyday psychopaths.

The Founding Fathers understood this dynamic very well. Despite arguments from the extreme left falsely insinuating that the founders are essentially barbarians from a defunct era that were too stupid to understand future developments and technology, the fact is that they knew the core philosophical justification for an armed citizenry was always the most important matter at hand. Today’s debates try to muddle meaningful discourse by swamping the public in the minutia of background checks, etc. But the following quotes from the early days of the Republic outline what we should all really be talking about:

“The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes…. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”
– Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

“To disarm the people…s the most effectual way to enslave them.”
– George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

“Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops.”
– Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

“Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined…. The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun.”
– Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778

“The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them.”
– Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 1833

“On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed.”
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

The inborn right to self defense and the ability of the people to maintain individual liberties in the face of tyranny supersedes all other arguments on gun rights. In fact, nothing else matters. This key point is so unassailable that anti-gun lobbyists have in most cases given up trying to defeat it. Instead of trying to confiscate firearms outright (which is their ultimate goal), they attempt to chip away at gun rights a piece at a time through endless flurries of legislation. This legislation is usually implemented in the wake of a tragedy involving firearms, for gun grabbers never let a good crisis go to waste. Exploiting the deaths of innocent people to further an ideological agenda is a common strategy for them.

This leads us to the recent mass shooting at a high school in Parkland, Florida. The narrative being constructed around this event is the same as usual — that stronger “gun control and background checks” are needed to prevent such things from ever happening again.

Of course, Nikolas Cruz, the alleged perpetrator of the shooting, obtained his firearms legally and by passing existing background checks. Being that these background checks have been highly effective in stopping the vast majority of potential criminals from purchasing firearms through legal channels, one wonders what more can be done to make these checks somehow “foolproof.”

Around 1.5 million 4473 forms (background checks) have been rejected by the ATF in the two decades since more stringent background checks were instituted. As many as 160,000 forms are denied each year for multiple reasons, including mental health reasons.

So, the question is, did background checks fail in the case of Nikolas Cruz? And would any suggested amendments to current 4473 methods have made any difference whatsoever in stopping Cruz from purchasing a weapon? The answer is no. No suggested changes to ATF background checks would have made a difference. But there are stop-gaps to preventing mass shootings other than the ATF.

The FBI, for example, had been warned on multiple occasions about Cruz, including his open threats to commit a school shooting. Yet, the FBI did nothing.

Could the FBI have prevented the killings in Parkland by following up repeated warnings on Nikolas Cruz? I would say yes, it is possible they could have investigated Cruz’s threats, verified them and prosecuted for conspiracy to commit a violent crime, or at the very least, they could have frightened him away from the idea.

Was the Parkland shooting then a failure of background checks or a failure of the FBI? And, if it was a failure of the FBI, then shouldn’t anti-gun advocates focus on revamping the FBI instead of pushing the same background check and gun show “loophole” rhetoric they always do?

They aren’t interested in instituting changes at the FBI because this could help solve the problem, and they do not care about solving the problem, they only care about pursuing their ultimate goal of deconstructing the 2nd Amendment for all time.

Gun control advocates will conjure up a host of arguments for diminishing gun rights, but just like the background check issue and Nikolas Cruz, most of them are nonsensical.

They’ll make the claim that guns for self defense are fine, but that high capacity military grade weapons were never protected under the Constitution. “The founding fathers were talking about single shot muskets when they wrote that…” is the commonly regurgitated propaganda meme. This is false. High capacity “machine guns” (like the Puckle gun and the Girandoni rifle) and even artillery were actually common during the time of the founders and were indeed protected under the 2nd Amendment. In fact, the 2nd Amendment applies to all firearms under common military usage regardless of the era.

They’ll claim that high capacity “assault weapons” are not needed and that low capacity firearms are more practical for self defense. They obviously are ignoring the circumstances surrounding any given self defense scenario. What if you are facing off with multiple assailants? What if those assailants are mass shooters themselves and obtained their weapons on the black market as the ISIS terrorists in Paris did in 2015? What if the assailant is a tyrannical government? Who is to say what capacity is “practical” in those situations?

They’ll claim that tougher gun laws and even confiscation will prevent mass shootings in the future, yet multiple nations (including France) have suffered horrific mass shootings despite having far more Orwellian gun laws than the U.S.

Criminals and terrorists do not follow laws. Laws are words on paper backed up by perceived consequences that only law abiding people care about.  The vast majority of successful mass shootings take place in “gun free zones,” places where average law abiding citizens are left unarmed and easy prey.

So, what is the solution that gun grabbers don’t want to talk about? What could have stopped the shooting in Parkland? What is the one thing that the mainstream media actively seeks to avoid any dialogue about?

The solution is simple — abolish all gun free zones. If teachers at the high school in Parkland had been armed the day Nikolas Cruz showed up with the intent to murder, then the entire event could have gone far differently. Instead of acting helplessly as human shields against a spray of bullets, teachers and coaches could have been shooting back, actually stopping the threat instead of just slowing it down for a few seconds. Or, knowing that he might be immediately shot and killed before accomplishing his attack, Cruz may have abandoned the attempt altogether. There is no way to calculate how many crimes and mass shootings have been prevented exactly because private gun ownership acted as a deterrent.

Most gun grabbers are oblivious to this kind of logic because they are blinded by ideological biases. Some of them, however, understand the truth of this completely, and they don’t care. They are not in the business of saving lives; they are in the business of exploiting death. They want something entirely different from what they claim they want. They are not interested in life, they are interested in control.
Title: Re: Brandon "Lexington & Concord" Smith Weighs in on Gun Control
Post by: Surly1 on February 22, 2018, 03:15:48 AM
BS at it again!  ::)

RE

http://www.alt-market.com/articles/3382-mass-shootings-will-never-negate-the-need-for-gun-rights (http://www.alt-market.com/articles/3382-mass-shootings-will-never-negate-the-need-for-gun-rights)

 Mass Shootings Will Never Negate The Need For Gun Rights
Though the media often attempts to twist the gun rights debate into a web of complexity, gun rights is in fact a rather simple issue — either you believe that people have an inherent right to self defense, or you don’t. All other arguments are a peripheral distraction.

 Because all manner of complex issues can and should be reduced to the "There are two kinds of people in this world..." argument. Pah.

// Firearms are a miraculous equalizer in a world otherwise dominated and enslaved by everyday psychopaths.

I'm quite sure 17 sets of parents in Parkland, fresh from burying their children, would have a word about who "psychopaths" are.


The Founding Fathers understood this dynamic very well. Despite arguments from the extreme left

Extreme left? The extreme left? Finally heard from! I've been looking in vain for the "extreme left" in this country for the last 40 years, and have been utterly unable to find it, such has been public attention and media time meticulously ground up and distributed between the two poles of the center-right and extreme fascist right. How shortsighted of me to know that the "extreme left" was hiding under a mantle of grief.

Cue the Founding Fathers quote litany, and proceed to clutch pearls.

The FBI, for example, had been warned on multiple occasions about Cruz, including his open threats to commit a school shooting. Yet, the FBI did nothing.

Could the FBI have prevented the killings in Parkland by following up repeated warnings on Nikolas Cruz? I would say yes, it is possible they could have investigated Cruz’s threats, verified them and prosecuted for conspiracy to commit a violent crime, or at the very least, they could have frightened him away from the idea.

//They aren’t interested in instituting changes at the FBI because this could help solve the problem, and they do not care about solving the problem, they only care about pursuing their ultimate goal of deconstructing the 2nd Amendment for all time.

Because always and everywhere, ANY limitation of gun manufacturers' ability to sell, and thus profit the ability to purchase or carry an assault weapon is an assault on our Basic Fundamental Freedoms For All Time and Eternity.


They’ll make the claim that guns for self defense are fine, but that high capacity military grade weapons were never protected under the Constitution. “The founding fathers were talking about single shot muskets when they wrote that…” is the commonly regurgitated propaganda meme. This is false. High capacity “machine guns” (like the Puckle gun and the Girandoni rifle) and even artillery were actually common during the time of the founders and were indeed protected under the 2nd Amendment. In fact, the 2nd Amendment applies to all firearms under common military usage regardless of the era.

I was not aware that the Second covered ALL manner of military armament. I stand corrected.I'll use that argument when I go downtown to Zedd's Guns and demand my RPG, because I have an errand in DC I need to run.

Brandon Smith has gone Full Retard.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/9xYmWXkf7vD9u/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Brandon "Lexington & Concord" Smith Weighs in on Gun Control
Post by: RE on February 22, 2018, 03:30:37 AM
Brandon Smith has gone Full Retard.


BS is worried they're going to come for his AR-15 and he'll have to put up or shut up in a shootout with the FBI & ATF.

http://www.youtube.com/v/eIpVWTZYWr8

RE
Title: Re: Brandon "Lexington & Concord" Smith Weighs in on Gun Control
Post by: Surly1 on February 22, 2018, 08:30:12 AM
Brandon Smith has gone Full Retard.


BS is worried they're going to come for his AR-15 and he'll have to put up or shut up in a shootout with the FBI & ATF.

http://www.youtube.com/v/eIpVWTZYWr8

RE

Terrific movie and a great clip, but not apropos. If it ever came to that, it wouldn't be a shootout.
Something more like this:

http://www.youtube.com/v/8jWEiL7du1U
Title: Re: Brandon "Lexington & Concord" Smith Weighs in on Gun Control
Post by: RE on February 22, 2018, 09:45:15 AM
Terrific movie and a great clip, but not apropos. If it ever came to that, it wouldn't be a shootout.
Something more like this:

http://www.youtube.com/v/8jWEiL7du1U

They didn't use one of those on Lavoy Finicum, why would they on BS?  ???   :icon_scratch:

RE
Title: Re: Brandon "Lexington & Concord" Smith Weighs in on Gun Control
Post by: Eddie on February 22, 2018, 09:50:39 AM
Terrific movie and a great clip, but not apropos. If it ever came to that, it wouldn't be a shootout.
Something more like this:

http://www.youtube.com/v/8jWEiL7du1U

They didn't use one of those on Lavoy Finicum, why would they on BS?  ???   :icon_scratch:

RE

Maybe because he's all over utoob hawking his gilly suits that supposedly make you invisible to thermal imaging, and teaching people how to be better snipers using cardboard cut-outs.

I expect they'll just drop a laser guided bunker buster on his house from high altitude.
Title: Re: Brandon "Lexington & Concord" Smith Weighs in on Gun Control
Post by: RE on February 22, 2018, 09:57:25 AM

Maybe because he's all over utoob hawking his gilly suits that supposedly make you invisible to thermal imaging, and teaching people how to be better snipers using cardboard cut-outs.

I expect they'll just drop a laser guided bunker buster on his house from high altitude.

If he was really going to take it to the wall, BS would not be in his house.  That crew of fanatics has Bunkers all over CO.  I also am quite sure they have RPGs and Big Caliber machine guns too.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: azozeo on February 22, 2018, 09:57:41 AM
Naaaaawwwwww.

It's all about the death ray.

He'll get cooked from the inside out with micro-wave tech.
Title: Re: Brandon "Lexington & Concord" Smith Weighs in on Gun Control
Post by: Surly1 on February 22, 2018, 01:54:31 PM
Terrific movie and a great clip, but not apropos. If it ever came to that, it wouldn't be a shootout.
Something more like this:

http://www.youtube.com/v/8jWEiL7du1U

They didn't use one of those on Lavoy Finicum, why would they on BS?  ???   :icon_scratch:

RE

Finicum attempted to run a roadblock set by FBI and state Police and got shot when he reached for his weapon. Notably, the feds didn't even call in the troops when Mondo Welfare Queen Cliven Bundy urged armed insurrection on the BLM and called a bunch of right-wing camo monkeys to gather in support of his right to Free Shit.

(Notice how "Free Shit Army" is only supposed to apply to black people? I wonder how many "Harvest Boxes" Bundy's overdue grazing fees, in arrears and totaling about $5 million, would be worth?)

My point, which you studiously ignore with the otherwise-admirable consistency you apply only to opinions that emerges from others, is that when the 50 calibers start firing, a lot of these MAGA types will be glad they are wearing camo, the better to disguise the sudden contents of their pants.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: luciddreams on February 22, 2018, 03:32:07 PM
I stopped reading BS's article after about the fourth quote from the 18th century (I love that his initials also mean "bullshit").  The reason for that is because those quotes do not apply to our world any longer.  As was pointed out earlier, Sadam had tanks and Scud missiles and and a somewhat trained army and those fuckers got squashed like bugs.  I bet they were fuckin' hungry to, those Iraqi' tropps in Kuwait. 

What portion of current day Murika is going to put up a better fight then Sadam put up?  Hmmmm? 

Maybe some rednecks, some KKK rednecks (not sure there's a difference between the two), maybe some black and Mexican gangsters, but they don't give a shit about politics beyond who sells what drug where.  The gang bangers are probably the best bet to fight the military, but they won't even bother with it.  The college aged kids waivin' rainbow flags around...please.  Who? 

Nobody, that's who. 

Guns, like so much about modern day Murika, are another hot topic political issue that serve as nothing more than a bread and circus distraction from the big dick that's balls deep in freedoms ass.  We aren't free to do anything other then make as much money in the BAU system that we inhabit.  And that so that we can have the best quality of life as possible.  Gunz won't do shit to stop Big Brother from stomping on your head with his boot heel forever.  Hell, soon enough it'll be Robocop stopping on your stupid fat druggy hazed head while you scream about stupid platitudes...while your delusion about freedom dies with your consciousness and you're reborn as an automaton plugged into the social media echo pool of narcissistic distractions.  While you wait for the singularity, or Jeebus, to take you to the promised (virtual) land. 

Maybe I'm just jaded. 

But hey, at least my kids will know Nihon Goshin Aikido.   :emthup: :icon_sunny:

Although I'm pretty sure robots don't have pressure points. 
Title: Eric Holder 1995 Brainwash People To Think Differently About Guns
Post by: g on February 22, 2018, 03:50:46 PM
Brainwashed  indeed.  :-\   

                                       http://www.youtube.com/v/75IX1H3TM_I

      For more information on your Right to Keep & Bear Arms Please choose one of the following: 1. Enroll in www.LibertyFirstUniversity.com (http://www.LibertyFirstUniversity.com) 2. Right to Keep & Bear Arms in an article: https://goo.gl/5AR85N (https://goo.gl/5AR85N) 3. Right to Keep & Bear Arms in an article written in Spanish: https://goo.gl/DmhnaE (https://goo.gl/DmhnaE) 4. Right to Keep & Bear Arms in a DVD you can watch and share: https://goo.gl/LTejAu (https://goo.gl/LTejAu) 5. Right to Keep & Bear Arms in a radio show you can listen to: https://goo.gl/j3Uox5 (https://goo.gl/j3Uox5)

This video is originally on CSPAN. The purpose for the partial re-posting this is for educational purposes which falls squarely into the Fair Use exception to copyright laws. For the entire segment please visit CSPAN.com

                     
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: monsta666 on February 22, 2018, 03:58:15 PM
I stopped reading BS's article after about the fourth quote from the 18th century (I love that his initials also mean "bullshit").  The reason for that is because those quotes do not apply to our world any longer.  As was pointed out earlier, Sadam had tanks and Scud missiles and and a somewhat trained army and those fuckers got squashed like bugs.  I bet they were fuckin' hungry to, those Iraqi' tropps in Kuwait. 

What portion of current day Murika is going to put up a better fight then Sadam put up?  Hmmmm? 

Maybe some rednecks, some KKK rednecks (not sure there's a difference between the two), maybe some black and Mexican gangsters, but they don't give a shit about politics beyond who sells what drug where.  The gang bangers are probably the best bet to fight the military, but they won't even bother with it.  The college aged kids waivin' rainbow flags around...please.  Who? 

Nobody, that's who. 

A united military army against an armed American public would only end with the military winning. However the big difference is the American military would have far less stomach killing fellow Americans than Iraqis. Even with the greatest amounts of propaganda and spin I have doubts that large parts of the military would fire on its own people. What is quite likely is if the military fought against the public is you would get significant defections (say around 30% of the force) and this would be enough to cause a major civil war. Also, and this relates to Iraq, even if the US military won how would the occupation work out? If the US army cannot hold down Afghanistan or Iraq how the hell would they occupy a country the size of the US with a hostile populace? The military industrial complex is a leech and if it attacks its own host it will die rather quickly. A country undergoing a major civil war is a country going through upheaval and ultimately ruin. The country, under such a state, would quickly fracture and the army would split up into various factions as their source of funds (the American taxpayer) dries up.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: luciddreams on February 22, 2018, 04:02:01 PM
I stopped reading BS's article after about the fourth quote from the 18th century (I love that his initials also mean "bullshit").  The reason for that is because those quotes do not apply to our world any longer.  As was pointed out earlier, Sadam had tanks and Scud missiles and and a somewhat trained army and those fuckers got squashed like bugs.  I bet they were fuckin' hungry to, those Iraqi' tropps in Kuwait. 

What portion of current day Murika is going to put up a better fight then Sadam put up?  Hmmmm? 

Maybe some rednecks, some KKK rednecks (not sure there's a difference between the two), maybe some black and Mexican gangsters, but they don't give a shit about politics beyond who sells what drug where.  The gang bangers are probably the best bet to fight the military, but they won't even bother with it.  The college aged kids waivin' rainbow flags around...please.  Who? 

Nobody, that's who. 

A united military army against an armed American public would only end with the military winning. However the big difference is the American military would have far less stomach killing fellow Americans than Iraqis. Even with the greatest amounts of propaganda and spin I have doubts that large parts of the military would fire on its own people. What is quite likely is if the military fought against the public is you would get significant defections (say around 30% of the force) and this would be enough to cause a major civil war. Also, and this relates to Iraq, even if the US military won how would the occupation work out? If the US army cannot hold down Afghanistan or Iraq how the hell would they occupy a country the size of the US with a hostile populace? The military industrial complex is a leech and if it attacks its own host it will die rather quickly. A country undergoing a major civil war is a country going through upheaval and ultimately ruin. The country, under such a state, would quickly fracture and the army would split up into various factions as their source of funds (the American taxpayer) dries up.

I agree with all of that.  However, now you only need a few hundred "soldiers" willing to play a video game and you've got control.  Since the video game actually kills actual people.  Drone technology.  Plus, soon, they will just use an army of robocops. 

It's not 1990 any longer, it's 2018. 
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Surly1 on February 22, 2018, 04:48:43 PM
I stopped reading BS's article after about the fourth quote from the 18th century (I love that his initials also mean "bullshit").  The reason for that is because those quotes do not apply to our world any longer.  As was pointed out earlier, Sadam had tanks and Scud missiles and and a somewhat trained army and those fuckers got squashed like bugs.  I bet they were fuckin' hungry to, those Iraqi' tropps in Kuwait. 

What portion of current day Murika is going to put up a better fight then Sadam put up?  Hmmmm? 

Maybe some rednecks, some KKK rednecks (not sure there's a difference between the two), maybe some black and Mexican gangsters, but they don't give a shit about politics beyond who sells what drug where.  The gang bangers are probably the best bet to fight the military, but they won't even bother with it.  The college aged kids waivin' rainbow flags around...please.  Who? 

Nobody, that's who. 

A united military army against an armed American public would only end with the military winning. However the big difference is the American military would have far less stomach killing fellow Americans than Iraqis. Even with the greatest amounts of propaganda and spin I have doubts that large parts of the military would fire on its own people. What is quite likely is if the military fought against the public is you would get significant defections (say around 30% of the force) and this would be enough to cause a major civil war. Also, and this relates to Iraq, even if the US military won how would the occupation work out? If the US army cannot hold down Afghanistan or Iraq how the hell would they occupy a country the size of the US with a hostile populace? The military industrial complex is a leech and if it attacks its own host it will die rather quickly. A country undergoing a major civil war is a country going through upheaval and ultimately ruin. The country, under such a state, would quickly fracture and the army would split up into various factions as their source of funds (the American taxpayer) dries up.

I agree with all of that.  However, now you only need a few hundred "soldiers" willing to play a video game and you've got control.  Since the video game actually kills actual people.  Drone technology.  Plus, soon, they will just use an army of robocops. 

It's not 1990 any longer, it's 2018.

Correcto. You young men both get it.
It's now up to your generation to save us all.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Palloy2 on February 22, 2018, 04:57:23 PM
You're talking about a direct confrontation between the public and the military - I agree that would be a no contest.
But when the difference between the strength of the parties is great, the weak should use asymmetric tactics - gasoline and matches in the back streets, not confrontation.  And given how different everybody is, you should be thinking about the few MOST committed, not everybody.

If just ONE person started gasoline-bombing banks/government offices, at the very least their fire insurance premiums would go through the roof and they would have to hire security guards to protect every building 24/7, an impossible task.

Alternatively, #itsMYmoney: imagine if a bunch of people were to line up at the ATM, it would start a run on the banks.
Or #fuckcredit : load all your debt onto one card, and then don't pay it off.

Back in hippy days, in Greenwich Village they organised people to buy the newspaper and then post it in the mailbox, jamming all mail in New York City - a sort of pre-internet DDoS.

Hence AR-15s are not needed to fulfill the people's ability to eject their government and the 2nd Amendment should be scraped.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Surly1 on February 22, 2018, 05:06:09 PM
You're talking about a direct confrontation between the public and the military - I agree that would be a no contest.
But when the difference between the strength of the parties is great, the weak should use asymmetric tactics - gasoline and matches in the back streets, not confrontation.  And given how different everybody is, you should be thinking about the few MOST committed, not everybody.

If just ONE person started gasoline-bombing banks/government offices, at the very least their fire insurance premiums would go through the roof and they would have to hire security guards to protect every building 24/7, an impossible task.

Alternatively, #itsMYmoney: imagine if a bunch of people were to line up at the ATM, it would start a run on the banks.
Or #fuckcredit : load all your debt onto one card, and then don't pay it off.

Back in hippy days, in Greenwich Village they organised people to buy the newspaper and then post it in the mailbox, jamming all mail in New York City - a sort of pre-internet DDoS.

Hence AR-15s are not needed to fulfill the people's ability to eject their government and the 2nd Amendment should be scraped.

 :emthup: :emthup:
Absolutely correct.

From my seat at ringside, the 2nd Amendment will never be scrapped or even amended. But I suspect there will be a severe reaction to the NRA's prescription for MOAR GUNZ as the solution for every incidence of gun violence. There will be limitations of assault weapons and background checks, or the republicans will be as Carthage ofter the Second Punic War. It will happen as a matter of political self-preservation.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on February 22, 2018, 05:19:40 PM

A united military army against an armed American public would only end with the military winning. However the big difference is the American military would have far less stomach killing fellow Americans than Iraqis. Even with the greatest amounts of propaganda and spin I have doubts that large parts of the military would fire on its own people. What is quite likely is if the military fought against the public is you would get significant defections (say around 30% of the force) and this would be enough to cause a major civil war. Also, and this relates to Iraq, even if the US military won how would the occupation work out? If the US army cannot hold down Afghanistan or Iraq how the hell would they occupy a country the size of the US with a hostile populace? The military industrial complex is a leech and if it attacks its own host it will die rather quickly. A country undergoing a major civil war is a country going through upheaval and ultimately ruin. The country, under such a state, would quickly fracture and the army would split up into various factions as their source of funds (the American taxpayer) dries up.

Monsta gets what nobody else in this forum seems to understand, which is that it's not the Brandon "Lexington & Concord" Smiths who will be fighting the Civil War, although they might start it just like in the "Shot Heard Round the World" in the original Lexington & Concord.  If those guys actually have the guts to follow through with their bluster, they'll end up as Martyrs, and then there will be more similar fights, in the cities between Gang Bangers and the Gestapo and on the border between the Drug Cartels & Gun Runners and ICE and DHS.

At some point in this melee the military fractures, just like it did in the original Civil War between North & South.  Robert E. Lee went to West Point of course.  This bizness will not happen over night.  Then you will have .50 cal BMG vs .50 Cal BMG, Jet vs, Jet and Drone vs Drone.  Until all the hardware has been trashed, and the fight goes Mano-a-Mano or using Trebuchets and Atl-Atls.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Surly1 on February 22, 2018, 05:32:32 PM

At some point in this melee the military fractures, just like it did in the original Civil War between North & South.  Robert E. Lee went to West Point of course.  This bizness will not happen over night.  Then you will have .50 cal BMG vs .50 Cal BMG, Jet vs, Jet and Drone vs Drone.  Until all the hardware has been trashed, and the fight goes Mano-a-Mano or using Trebuchets and Atl-Atls.

RE

I don't think so.

Lee had the sense to know he couldn't trade pawns with the Army of the Potomac, recent victories notwithstanding. The situation on the ground post Chancellorsville, plus Grant's pressure on Vicksburg which was about to cut the Confederacy in two, led to Lee's decision to strike in Pennsylvania. This per Shelby Foote, anyhow.

Tomorrw's Branch Davidians can empty their armories and not come within a rounding error of trading armaments with the Imperial Army. Which is why Palloy is correct: asymmetrical it is.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on February 22, 2018, 05:40:19 PM

At some point in this melee the military fractures, just like it did in the original Civil War between North & South.  Robert E. Lee went to West Point of course.  This bizness will not happen over night.  Then you will have .50 cal BMG vs .50 Cal BMG, Jet vs, Jet and Drone vs Drone.  Until all the hardware has been trashed, and the fight goes Mano-a-Mano or using Trebuchets and Atl-Atls.

RE

I don't think so.

Lee had the sense to know he couldn't trade pawns with the Army of the Potomac, recent victories notwithstanding. The situation on the ground post Chancellorsville, plus Grant's pressure on Vicksburg which was about to cut the Confederacy in two, led to Lee's decision to strike in Pennsylvania. This per Shelby Foote, anyhow.

Tomorrw's Branch Davidians can empty their armories and not come within a rounding error of trading armaments with the Imperial Army. Which is why Palloy is correct: asymmetrical it is.

Oh certainly, asymmetric warfare will be a big part of the action, of this I have no doubt.  But you will also have increasing militia activity at the same time.  It's a numbers issue.  It really depends mainly on how much activity is going on in how many places?  If it's just one small group of fanatics, they are easily wiped out.  If you have this shit ongoing in all the major cities and on the border with Mejico, it's an entirely different story.  Also quite a different story if the military isn't getting paid in working money.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Nearingsfault on February 22, 2018, 05:45:31 PM
For the deep conspiracy outsider opinion I see your civilian armament buildup as if not planned then part of a vicious circle of justification for ever more police armaments, more violent tactics, more surveillance. By being heavily armed you are justifying a heavily armed response. Play their game... they are much better at it.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: luciddreams on February 22, 2018, 06:38:56 PM
For the deep conspiracy outsider opinion I see your civilian armament buildup as if not planned then part of a vicious circle of justification for ever more police armaments, more violent tactics, more surveillance. By being heavily armed you are justifying a heavily armed response. Play their game... they are much better at it.

That's pretty much my point. 

The revolution will last for about 36 hours.  Some dumb ass motherfuckers high on nutmeg, meth, and glue will show up with their shotguns and AR-15's, and they will shoot a cop, or soldier.  Then the next day the Corporatocracy MSM will blast that shit on the idiot screens and on the Swampbook and KnitTwit feeds, and then it will be over.  The revolution will be "televized." 

The KnitTwit Swampbook knitwhits will ask for some snacks to go with their anal rape, and Uncle Same will moan a sigh of relief as he nuts into the popcorn bowl. 

"Now eat that you dumb ass 'revolutionaries'." 

Don't get me wrong...fuck Big Brother and his menacing plans.  I'm all for freedom.  But like Eddie Griffin say, "it's called freedumb for a reason, if you want somethin' for free then your dumb."  Something like that.

Like I said, Robocop doesn't have pressure points.   
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on February 23, 2018, 02:06:09 AM

The revolution will last for about 36 hours.  Some dumb ass motherfuckers high on nutmeg, meth, and glue will show up with their shotguns and AR-15's, and they will shoot a cop, or soldier.  Then the next day the Corporatocracy MSM will blast that shit on the idiot screens and on the Swampbook and KnitTwit feeds, and then it will be over.  The revolution will be "televized." 

Highly unlikely it plays out that way.  More likely is you will see increasing violence in the cities, more Fergusons and Baltimores and more Campus Shoot 'em Ups.  This will take months of time, possibly even years, not 36 hours.  Eventually this will reach a critical mass and Da Goobermint will declare Martial Law.  However, they don't currently have enough personnel to enforce Martial Law on a nationwide basis, and the mayhem will continue.  Martial Law of course does not solve the underlying problems of resource depletion and population overshoot.  At this point Da Goobermint will try to conscript up more troops to maintain order, but find itself increasingly unable to pay those troops in any money that works.  At some point thereafter, the military will begin to fracture, with some commanders in some areas taking sides with the people in their locales and trying to organize some means of getting them fed.  Then you end up with a Venezuela like situation with a failed state and many battles taking place all over the place and no functioning central control.  This portion of the Civil War will take years to play out, not 36 hours.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: g on February 23, 2018, 02:38:44 AM
You're talking about a direct confrontation between the public and the military - I agree that would be a no contest.
But when the difference between the strength of the parties is great, the weak should use asymmetric tactics - gasoline and matches in the back streets, not confrontation.  And given how different everybody is, you should be thinking about the few MOST committed, not everybody.

If just ONE person started gasoline-bombing banks/government offices, at the very least their fire insurance premiums would go through the roof and they would have to hire security guards to protect every building 24/7, an impossible task.

Alternatively, #itsMYmoney: imagine if a bunch of people were to line up at the ATM, it would start a run on the banks.
Or #fuckcredit : load all your debt onto one card, and then don't pay it off.

Back in hippy days, in Greenwich Village they organised people to buy the newspaper and then post it in the mailbox, jamming all mail in New York City - a sort of pre-internet DDoS.

Hence AR-15s are not needed to fulfill the people's ability to eject their government and the 2nd Amendment should be scraped.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry after this one.    ;D :'( :icon_scratch:
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Surly1 on February 23, 2018, 04:24:41 AM

At some point in this melee the military fractures, just like it did in the original Civil War between North & South.  Robert E. Lee went to West Point of course.  This bizness will not happen over night.  Then you will have .50 cal BMG vs .50 Cal BMG, Jet vs, Jet and Drone vs Drone.  Until all the hardware has been trashed, and the fight goes Mano-a-Mano or using Trebuchets and Atl-Atls.

RE

I don't think so.

Lee had the sense to know he couldn't trade pawns with the Army of the Potomac, recent victories notwithstanding. The situation on the ground post Chancellorsville, plus Grant's pressure on Vicksburg which was about to cut the Confederacy in two, led to Lee's decision to strike in Pennsylvania. This per Shelby Foote, anyhow.

Tomorrw's Branch Davidians can empty their armories and not come within a rounding error of trading armaments with the Imperial Army. Which is why Palloy is correct: asymmetrical it is.

Oh certainly, asymmetric warfare will be a big part of the action, of this I have no doubt.  But you will also have increasing militia activity at the same time.  It's a numbers issue.  It really depends mainly on how much activity is going on in how many places?  If it's just one small group of fanatics, they are easily wiped out.  If you have this shit ongoing in all the major cities and on the border with Mejico, it's an entirely different story.  Also quite a different story if the military isn't getting paid in working money.

RE

Too many "ifs" in this scenario.

You have forgotten (or choose to ignore) the vast array of "non-lethal crowd control" weapons the Empire maintains to defend the monied elite and their property. LRADs, laser weapons designed to blind and sicken (the Dazer Laser), the Active Denial System heat ray, taser shotguns, water cannons, biologicals, and a variety of gases. This just scrapes the surface. This is more than enough to keep scummy demanders of public education off the streets.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on February 23, 2018, 04:27:38 AM

At some point in this melee the military fractures, just like it did in the original Civil War between North & South.  Robert E. Lee went to West Point of course.  This bizness will not happen over night.  Then you will have .50 cal BMG vs .50 Cal BMG, Jet vs, Jet and Drone vs Drone.  Until all the hardware has been trashed, and the fight goes Mano-a-Mano or using Trebuchets and Atl-Atls.

RE

I don't think so.

Lee had the sense to know he couldn't trade pawns with the Army of the Potomac, recent victories notwithstanding. The situation on the ground post Chancellorsville, plus Grant's pressure on Vicksburg which was about to cut the Confederacy in two, led to Lee's decision to strike in Pennsylvania. This per Shelby Foote, anyhow.

Tomorrw's Branch Davidians can empty their armories and not come within a rounding error of trading armaments with the Imperial Army. Which is why Palloy is correct: asymmetrical it is.

Oh certainly, asymmetric warfare will be a big part of the action, of this I have no doubt.  But you will also have increasing militia activity at the same time.  It's a numbers issue.  It really depends mainly on how much activity is going on in how many places?  If it's just one small group of fanatics, they are easily wiped out.  If you have this shit ongoing in all the major cities and on the border with Mejico, it's an entirely different story.  Also quite a different story if the military isn't getting paid in working money.

RE

Too many "ifs" in this scenario.

You have forgotten (or choose to ignore) the vast array of "non-lethal crowd control" weapons the Empire maintains to defend the monied elite and their property. LRADs, laser weapons designed to blind and sicken (the Dazer Laser), the Active Denial System heat ray, taser shotguns, water cannons, biologicals, and a variety of gases. This just scrapes the surface. This is more than enough to keep scummy demanders of public education off the streets.

I am ignoring nothing.  As I said, it's a numbers issue.  They don't have enough LRAD or enough personnel to handle mayhem in every city going on at the same time.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: azozeo on February 23, 2018, 04:55:43 AM

At some point in this melee the military fractures, just like it did in the original Civil War between North & South.  Robert E. Lee went to West Point of course.  This bizness will not happen over night.  Then you will have .50 cal BMG vs .50 Cal BMG, Jet vs, Jet and Drone vs Drone.  Until all the hardware has been trashed, and the fight goes Mano-a-Mano or using Trebuchets and Atl-Atls.

RE

I don't think so.

Lee had the sense to know he couldn't trade pawns with the Army of the Potomac, recent victories notwithstanding. The situation on the ground post Chancellorsville, plus Grant's pressure on Vicksburg which was about to cut the Confederacy in two, led to Lee's decision to strike in Pennsylvania. This per Shelby Foote, anyhow.

Tomorrw's Branch Davidians can empty their armories and not come within a rounding error of trading armaments with the Imperial Army. Which is why Palloy is correct: asymmetrical it is.

Oh certainly, asymmetric warfare will be a big part of the action, of this I have no doubt.  But you will also have increasing militia activity at the same time.  It's a numbers issue.  It really depends mainly on how much activity is going on in how many places?  If it's just one small group of fanatics, they are easily wiped out.  If you have this shit ongoing in all the major cities and on the border with Mejico, it's an entirely different story.  Also quite a different story if the military isn't getting paid in working money.

RE

Too many "ifs" in this scenario.

You have forgotten (or choose to ignore) the vast array of "non-lethal crowd control" weapons the Empire maintains to defend the monied elite and their property. LRADs, laser weapons designed to blind and sicken (the Dazer Laser), the Active Denial System heat ray, taser shotguns, water cannons, biologicals, and a variety of gases. This just scrapes the surface. This is more than enough to keep scummy demanders of public education off the streets.

I am ignoring nothing.  As I said, it's a numbers issue.  They don't have enough LRAD or enough personnel to handle mayhem in every city going on at the same time.

RE


If shit gets to out of hand, we'll get sprayed like bugs, like what's currently unfolding in a sky near you.

Swap out your chemicals & the body count soars.
Disease sets in, & that's that for EVERY CITY in Amerika.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: luciddreams on February 23, 2018, 05:20:54 AM

The revolution will last for about 36 hours.  Some dumb ass motherfuckers high on nutmeg, meth, and glue will show up with their shotguns and AR-15's, and they will shoot a cop, or soldier.  Then the next day the Corporatocracy MSM will blast that shit on the idiot screens and on the Swampbook and KnitTwit feeds, and then it will be over.  The revolution will be "televized." 

Highly unlikely it plays out that way.  More likely is you will see increasing violence in the cities, more Fergusons and Baltimores and more Campus Shoot 'em Ups.  This will take months of time, possibly even years, not 36 hours.  Eventually this will reach a critical mass and Da Goobermint will declare Martial Law.  However, they don't currently have enough personnel to enforce Martial Law on a nationwide basis, and the mayhem will continue.  Martial Law of course does not solve the underlying problems of resource depletion and population overshoot.  At this point Da Goobermint will try to conscript up more troops to maintain order, but find itself increasingly unable to pay those troops in any money that works.  At some point thereafter, the military will begin to fracture, with some commanders in some areas taking sides with the people in their locales and trying to organize some means of getting them fed.  Then you end up with a Venezuela like situation with a failed state and many battles taking place all over the place and no functioning central control.  This portion of the Civil War will take years to play out, not 36 hours.

RE

Yeah, well, that’s just like your opinion man. 

My point is that the first major incident will be squashed mercilessly at some point.  Then the gun nuts will decide that they like tater chips and beer in the little convenience store at the corner more then they like freedumb.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on February 23, 2018, 08:33:20 AM

The revolution will last for about 36 hours.  Some dumb ass motherfuckers high on nutmeg, meth, and glue will show up with their shotguns and AR-15's, and they will shoot a cop, or soldier.  Then the next day the Corporatocracy MSM will blast that shit on the idiot screens and on the Swampbook and KnitTwit feeds, and then it will be over.  The revolution will be "televized." 

Highly unlikely it plays out that way.  More likely is you will see increasing violence in the cities, more Fergusons and Baltimores and more Campus Shoot 'em Ups.  This will take months of time, possibly even years, not 36 hours.  Eventually this will reach a critical mass and Da Goobermint will declare Martial Law.  However, they don't currently have enough personnel to enforce Martial Law on a nationwide basis, and the mayhem will continue.  Martial Law of course does not solve the underlying problems of resource depletion and population overshoot.  At this point Da Goobermint will try to conscript up more troops to maintain order, but find itself increasingly unable to pay those troops in any money that works.  At some point thereafter, the military will begin to fracture, with some commanders in some areas taking sides with the people in their locales and trying to organize some means of getting them fed.  Then you end up with a Venezuela like situation with a failed state and many battles taking place all over the place and no functioning central control.  This portion of the Civil War will take years to play out, not 36 hours.

RE

Yeah, well, that’s just like your opinion man. 

My point is that the first major incident will be squashed mercilessly at some point.  Then the gun nuts will decide that they like tater chips and beer in the little convenience store at the corner more then they like freedumb.

Yes Lebowski, it's my opinion.

It is however an opinion based on the progression of events in other failed or failing states like Somalia, Libya and Venezuela.  Amerika is not exceptional.  We will walk down the same path.

RE
Title: We Only Have One Cop for Your School but 6 Who Will Guard a Cowards 24/7
Post by: g on February 23, 2018, 09:05:10 AM
We Only Have One Cop for your school but we have six armed officers who will guard a coward's house 24x7 so he doesn't have to answer questions from the media

    We sent @BrianEntin to BSO Deputy Scot Peterson’s Boynton Beach home to try and talk to him about his resignation today. Were met by 6 @PBCountySheriff deputies standing guard outside his home. They prevented us from approaching the house. pic.twitter.com/1QPlmeHtqb

So, students and parents at Parkland, along with anyone else, let's see if I get this right.

This specific officer knew about Cruz's intentions as he was alerted about a prior call to the Sheriff's Office stating that Cruz intended to shoot up a school -- in 2016.  He did nothing.

When Cruz did shoot up the school said officer cowered outside, despite being armed and able to offer effective resistance to the attack.  He sat outside hiding for four minutes while Cruz slaughtered the kids inside, hearing not only the gunshots but, I'm sure, the screams.

When suspended he retired and is going to be allowed to draw his pension instead of being criminally charged and forfeiting his pension and retirement benefits, despite the proximate cause of his "retirement" being an attempt to evade an investigation of his conduct.

And now, having done all this, the Palm Beach Sheriff's Office (and the Broward Sheriff's Office) can find only one cop with a gun for a school but six cops with guns to stand guard over this assclown's house and barricade it against anyone approaching it or him.

Oh, and not barricade it just against people with weapons who intend to do him harm either -- they have also barricaded it against a news crew armed only with cameras so this ******* doesn't have to actually face the public about his outrageous conduct.

This is no longer about just Broward County's sheriff office -- it now extends to Palm Beach as well as they have willfully and intentionally joined the cowards and intentional misconduct of both the FBI and Broward County.

Tell me, parents and students, when you're going to recognize that those 17 people are dead because of direct, intentional malfeasance and willful misconduct by the police.

And finally, next question: Are you going to obey any "gun law", now or ever in the future, when it's clear that the only person who will protect you and your children is..... you?


Karl Denninger

 https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=233034 :icon_study: :icon_study:
Title: Re: We Only Have One Cop for Your School but 6 Who Will Guard a Cowards 24/7
Post by: RE on February 23, 2018, 09:12:59 AM
As mentioned previously, this is scapegoating.  The cop was following protocol and standard operating proceedure for police to wait for backup before going in to a live shooting situation.

RE
Title: Re: We Only Have One Cop for Your School but 6 Who Will Guard a Cowards 24/7
Post by: g on February 23, 2018, 09:35:37 AM
As mentioned previously, this is scapegoating.  The cop was following protocol and standard operating proceedure for police to wait for backup before going in to a live shooting situation.

RE

There is much disagreement on that conjecture.
Title: Re: We Only Have One Cop for Your School but 6 Who Will Guard a Cowards 24/7
Post by: RE on February 23, 2018, 09:40:33 AM
As mentioned previously, this is scapegoating.  The cop was following protocol and standard operating proceedure for police to wait for backup before going in to a live shooting situation.

RE

There is much disagreement on that conjecture.

Of course there is.  Everyone on all sides is using the event to forward their political agenda.

RE
Title: Re: We Only Have One Cop for Your School but 6 Who Will Guard a Cowards 24/7
Post by: g on February 23, 2018, 10:23:38 AM
As mentioned previously, this is scapegoating.  The cop was following protocol and standard operating proceedure for police to wait for backup before going in to a live shooting situation.

RE

There is much disagreement on that conjecture.

Of course there is.  Everyone on all sides is using the event to forward their political agenda.

RE

True, I agree. Nice of you to admit it.
Title: Re: We Only Have One Cop for Your School but 6 Who Will Guard a Cowards 24/7
Post by: RE on February 23, 2018, 10:27:23 AM
As mentioned previously, this is scapegoating.  The cop was following protocol and standard operating proceedure for police to wait for backup before going in to a live shooting situation.

RE

There is much disagreement on that conjecture.

Of course there is.  Everyone on all sides is using the event to forward their political agenda.

RE

True, I agree. Nice of you to admit it.

Nice of you to admit it also.  KD is obviously on his agenda.  LIbertarians are eatintg this one up in the media, in typical right wing controlled MSM owned by Rupert Murdoch and the Koch brothers.

Libertarians are shameless in their use of the media.

RE
Title: Re: We Only Have One Cop for Your School but 6 Who Will Guard a Cowards 24/7
Post by: g on February 23, 2018, 10:48:47 AM
As mentioned previously, this is scapegoating.  The cop was following protocol and standard operating proceedure for police to wait for backup before going in to a live shooting situation.

RE

There is much disagreement on that conjecture.

Of course there is.  Everyone on all sides is using the event to forward their political agenda.

RE

True, I agree. Nice of you to admit it.

Nice of you to admit it also.  KD is obviously on his agenda.  LIbertarians are eatintg this one up in the media, in typical right wing controlled MSM owned by Rupert Murdoch and the Koch brothers.

Libertarians are shameles in their use of the media.

RE

RE

CNN, the Clinton News Network  as Cris Hedges so aptly named it, is quite shameles as well, then of course there is NYT and Oprah the Presidential hopeful spewing her money making song to the snowflakes.

Agreed again, a disgusting situation.  :(

I'm a great believer of the free press, untainted by money. Like the Diner was at it's founding.

Boy oh Boy there were some great opinions, articles, and ideas as well as much truth posted on those hallowed advertiser free unmonied pages.

Remember Peter's Hitler article? El'Gs remarkable writings? The debate about David Icke? Ashvin and you arguing Christianity and it's dogma. KA and Ashvin out in philosophy space. JoeP's news.

Never could figure out really why, but the Library of Alexandria was my favorite, something about it fascinated the shit out of me. :icon_scratch:

Yeah, No way you ever acquire anything close on MSM, pure drivel for the Dim.  :-\

Free press, Free Speech, no money allowed is the way to go.
Title: Re: We Only Have One Cop for Your School but 6 Who Will Guard a Cowards 24/7
Post by: RE on February 23, 2018, 10:57:15 AM
Free press, Free Speech, no money allowed is the way to go.

How do you fund it?  Through Taxation?  Here it's funded by me, I'm the Deep Pocket paying for it.

RE
Title: Re: We Only Have One Cop for Your School but 6 Who Will Guard a Cowards 24/7
Post by: g on February 23, 2018, 11:30:18 AM
Free press, Free Speech, no money allowed is the way to go.

How do you fund it?  Through Taxation?  Here it's funded by me, I'm the Deep Pocket paying for it.

RE

No problem, a small minimum donation accepted from members to cover costs only, no overage.
Say for the sake of talking 5 bucks per year ONLY per member, with no ass kissers sending in more to Bummy lick the Admin. Same influence from all members.
Record of payments published every year and by which member, as well as expense list to make sure they closely match.

Some folks pleading poverty or freeloaders still allowed but with limited privileges. Say a members only thread with dues paying members only allowed access or limit of one posting a week or some such bullshit to punish the misers.  :laugh:

Folks like myself wishing to remain anonymous a minor problem. Amount would be small enough to gamble sending cash in an envelope with a dummy return address.

Only hitch then becomes trusting you to admit you got the dough. :icon_mrgreen:

That's a tough one for those who aren't on your groupies list like GO. ;D :-\

GO has to mull that one for a while. ??? :icon_scratch: :exp-grin: :exp-grin: :Thinkingof_:

A free press like that would have to have a treasurer remote from the organization, trusted by all the members, and a legal requirement to secrecy and fiduciary responsibility for the funds, which means he she or it would have to get a fee. Not an easy find. :icon_scratch:
Title: Re: We Only Have One Cop for Your School but 6 Who Will Guard a Cowards 24/7
Post by: RE on February 23, 2018, 11:57:49 AM
Free press, Free Speech, no money allowed is the way to go.

How do you fund it?  Through Taxation?  Here it's funded by me, I'm the Deep Pocket paying for it.

RE

No problem, a small minimum donation accepted from members to cover costs only, no overage.

You've never made a single donation to this website in all the time you have been here!

RE
Title: Re: We Only Have One Cop for Your School but 6 Who Will Guard a Cowards 24/7
Post by: g on February 23, 2018, 12:12:14 PM
Free press, Free Speech, no money allowed is the way to go.

How do you fund it?  Through Taxation?  Here it's funded by me, I'm the Deep Pocket paying for it.

RE

No problem, a small minimum donation accepted from members to cover costs only, no overage.

You've never made a single donation to this website in all the time you have been here!

RE

And I have never been paid for all my hard work and dedication. It's been a labor of love.  :icon_sunny:

 
Title: Re: We Only Have One Cop for Your School but 6 Who Will Guard a Cowards 24/7
Post by: RE on February 23, 2018, 12:17:11 PM
Free press, Free Speech, no money allowed is the way to go.

How do you fund it?  Through Taxation?  Here it's funded by me, I'm the Deep Pocket paying for it.

RE

No problem, a small minimum donation accepted from members to cover costs only, no overage.

You've never made a single donation to this website in all the time you have been here!

RE

And I have never been paid for all my hard work and dedication. It's been a labor of love.  :icon_sunny:

Nobody gets paid here.  You expect to be PAID to read this website and drop on comments?  ::)  You don't write articles, you just post pictures every so often.  That is just flat out nuts.

The reason just about every website now has a paywall is because most of the readers are cheapskates like you who won't make donations even though they regularly use the site.  Your solution is not a solution.

RE
Title: Re: We Only Have One Cop for Your School but 6 Who Will Guard a Cowards 24/7
Post by: Surly1 on February 23, 2018, 12:27:30 PM
We Only Have One Cop for your school but we have six armed officers who will guard a coward's house 24x7 so he doesn't have to answer questions from the media

My first reaction was identical to yours. Identical.

The early this morning I read RE's response to some piece of this thread (can't really look it up now) where he said that he may have been following a protocol, and that people who thought a man with a six shooter was going to successfully engage a shooter armed with an AR were guilty of watching too many Bruce Willis movies.

At the risk of agreeing with RE about anything, he may have a point.

Me, I'd like to know more, but if it is true that he neglected his responsibility so that all those children could be gunned down, then there will be no need to yell for vengeance, because this deputy will be marked as a Judas goat for the rest of his life. If there is some extenuation, then by all means let's hear it. It is hard to imagine what that might be...
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: g on February 23, 2018, 12:31:31 PM
I tried to have a reasonable conversation and a few laughs.   :dontknow:
Title: Re: We Only Have One Cop for Your School but 6 Who Will Guard a Cowards 24/7
Post by: RE on February 23, 2018, 12:33:51 PM
We Only Have One Cop for your school but we have six armed officers who will guard a coward's house 24x7 so he doesn't have to answer questions from the media

My first reaction was identical to yours. Identical.

The early this morning I read RE's response to some piece of this thread (can't really look it up now) where he said that he may have been following a protocol, and that people who thought a man with a six shooter was going to successfully engage a shooter armed with an AR were guilty of watching too many Bruce Willis movies.

At the risk of agreeing with RE about anything, he may have a point.

Me, I'd like to know more, but if it is true that he neglected his responsibility so that all those children could be gunned down, then there will be no need to yell for vengeance, because this deputy will be marked as a Judas goat for the rest of his life. If there is some extenuation, then by all means let's hear it. It is hard to imagine what that might be...

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/12/how_police_are_trained_to_deal.html (http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/12/how_police_are_trained_to_deal.html)

Quote
When approaching someone who's either holding a gun or indicating that they have one, police are trained to first take cover at a safe distance and create a barrier between themselves and the other person. This usually means ducking behind the police cruiser or a building.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on February 23, 2018, 12:37:08 PM
I tried to have a reasonable conversation and a few laughs.

It's reasonable to expect to be PAID to drop comments on a website?  It's funny?  What Planet do you live on?  ::)

RE
Title: Another Day Another Shooter - Here We Go, Teach Be Packin' Baby....
Post by: azozeo on February 24, 2018, 10:49:32 AM
https://www.libertyheadlines.com/hundreds-teachers-request-concealed-carry-classes/ (https://www.libertyheadlines.com/hundreds-teachers-request-concealed-carry-classes/)


Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter - Here We Go, Teach Be Packin' Baby....
Post by: RE on February 24, 2018, 11:01:28 AM
https://www.libertyheadlines.com/hundreds-teachers-request-concealed-carry-classes/ (https://www.libertyheadlines.com/hundreds-teachers-request-concealed-carry-classes/)

Shootout at the School Cafeteria Corral

http://www.youtube.com/v/gWNn0QN03l0

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: azozeo on February 24, 2018, 11:10:47 AM
Nice choice, hadn't seen that version.

As far as the real world goes, home-schooling will be the norm.
Folks aren't going to tolerate their ken & barbies around such weaponry.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on February 24, 2018, 11:13:34 AM
Nice choice, hadn't seen that version.

As far as the real world goes, home-schooling will be the norm.
Folks aren't going to tolerate their ken & barbies around such weaponry.

How do you Home School when both parents work?

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: azozeo on February 24, 2018, 01:52:35 PM
Nice choice, hadn't seen that version.

As far as the real world goes, home-schooling will be the norm.
Folks aren't going to tolerate their ken & barbies around such weaponry.

How do you Home School when both parents work?

RE

It's called " Christian Education"
Loads of the churches, at least around here have opened their doors to
locals as an alternative to a public education. No bullying. A little more control.
Class sizes are 10-12 students & prices are reasonable, sometimes commensurate on the parents ability to pay.
The only difference is you get an hour of JAYZUSSSSS, along with math & English.
The churches follow the home school curriculum. Similar to Little House on the Prairie stuff. One room school house.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on February 24, 2018, 04:16:47 PM
Nice choice, hadn't seen that version.

As far as the real world goes, home-schooling will be the norm.
Folks aren't going to tolerate their ken & barbies around such weaponry.

How do you Home School when both parents work?

RE

It's called " Christian Education"
Loads of the churches, at least around here have opened their doors to
locals as an alternative to a public education. No bullying. A little more control.
Class sizes are 10-12 students & prices are reasonable, sometimes commensurate on the parents ability to pay.
The only difference is you get an hour of JAYZUSSSSS, along with math & English.
The churches follow the home school curriculum. Similar to Little House on the Prairie stuff. One room school house.

We tried to do that at my first gym up here.  I was the teacher for 3rd-6th Grade in my "One Room Schoolhouse".  The parents wouldn't or couldn't pay enough money for the teacher to live on and to cover the overhead of the building and all the Homeschool materials they need to buy every year.  If you figure the teacher needs $40K to live on (very meager up here), each of the 10 kids has to pay $350 or so just for that.  Overhead for the building costs another $100/mo, school materials another $50/mo.  That is $500/mo and the gym is still not making any money from this.  Enough people do not have $500/mo to pay for this when they get it for free at the Public Skule.  Perhaps if the public skules become armed camps more will be motivated to try this, but I doubt it.  They still don't have the discretionary income to cough up at least $500/mo, and that is a lowball figure.  We lost money every year for the 3 years we ran that program.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: luciddreams on February 24, 2018, 04:53:46 PM
The cop, IMO, it was his job to do something about those kids getting shut the fuck up.  Why is he at the school with a gun otherwise?  Seriously?  Why is this even something that's being debated?  Does he work at the school with a gun just as a deterrence?  Do the parents have no reasonable expectation that he use his gun to stop a massacre of children at the school?  What is he even a cop for if he's not willing to put himself in harms way to defend the public's children from a maniac? 
 
Being a cop means being willing to get shot to protect and defend the public, and to uphold the law.  It should mean that you are willing to die to defend the innocent from senseless tragedy like this. 

Unfortunately that's not the case. 

As for the homeschooling.  I'd love to homeschool our kids.  That is, I'd love for my wife to.  She doesn't have to work (though she does in the gig economy with her camera).  She technically could homeschool them, but that is no easy task.  You have to be cut out for it.  It's hard enough just teaching kids right from wrong, much less teaching them to read, write, and do arithmetic.  I'm not saying it's impossible, or even that difficult for the right person.  Tolerance is needed, lots of tolerance and patience.  Hell that's needed just to raise kids, never mind schooling them on top of that. 

All kids all the time will drive an adult fucking nuts. 

It's unfortunate that considering homeschool is now something we do because we don't want our kids to get shot the fuck up while they are at public school.  The flu in another biggy for me.  I was supposed to be home this weekend.  I didn't go home because both kids were sick, they got better, then my wife got sick (she's currently recovering).  I didn't see the point of going home to catch the sickness.  I wanted to help my wife, but I didn't want to get sick and then go back out in a truck.  Besides, at this point, my main function is making the money.  Which is also unfortunate.  We are stuffed into that box.  A man is to provide, and in this world that means making money first. 

Anyways, that cop was a coward.  Homeschooling is great if you are fortunate enough to have a situation where one parent doesn't have to work, and then you have the temperament for it. 
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on February 24, 2018, 05:14:39 PM
The cop, IMO, it was his job to do something about those kids getting shut the fuck up.  Why is he at the school with a gun otherwise?  Seriously?  Why is this even something that's being debated?  Does he work at the school with a gun just as a deterrence?  Do the parents have no reasonable expectation that he use his gun to stop a massacre of children at the school?  What is he even a cop for if he's not willing to put himself in harms way to defend the public's children from a maniac? 
 
Being a cop means being willing to get shot to protect and defend the public, and to uphold the law.  It should mean that you are willing to die to defend the innocent from senseless tragedy like this. 

Unfortunately that's not the case. 

As for the homeschooling.  I'd love to homeschool our kids.  That is, I'd love for my wife to.  She doesn't have to work (though she does in the gig economy with her camera).  She technically could homeschool them, but that is no easy task.  You have to be cut out for it.  It's hard enough just teaching kids right from wrong, much less teaching them to read, write, and do arithmetic.  I'm not saying it's impossible, or even that difficult for the right person.  Tolerance is needed, lots of tolerance and patience.  Hell that's needed just to raise kids, never mind schooling them on top of that. 

All kids all the time will drive an adult fucking nuts. 

It's unfortunate that considering homeschool is now something we do because we don't want our kids to get shot the fuck up while they are at public school.  The flu in another biggy for me.  I was supposed to be home this weekend.  I didn't go home because both kids were sick, they got better, then my wife got sick (she's currently recovering).  I didn't see the point of going home to catch the sickness.  I wanted to help my wife, but I didn't want to get sick and then go back out in a truck.  Besides, at this point, my main function is making the money.  Which is also unfortunate.  We are stuffed into that box.  A man is to provide, and in this world that means making money first. 

Anyways, that cop was a coward.  Homeschooling is great if you are fortunate enough to have a situation where one parent doesn't have to work, and then you have the temperament for it.

Well, you always pitch at me that I don't know about kids cause I have none of my own, but I spent more time with more kids than any parent ever does.  In the Homeschool Elite program we ran in Georgia, I was with my crew of wannabee Elites  for 12 straight hours a day.  Morning workout 8AM-Noon.  Lunch Noon-1.  Gymschool 1-4. Evening Workout 4-8.  Kid goes home, sees mom & dad for 2 hours, then goes to sleep.  Gets up the next morning, sees them again for an hour then back to the gym.  Rinse and Repeat every weekday, and then in meet season you have the meets which take around 4 hours to run through the awards.  I HAVE the temperment for this.

So next time you tell me I don't know about raising kids, just STFU.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: luciddreams on February 24, 2018, 05:54:41 PM


So next time you tell me I don't know about raising kids, just STFU.

RE

WTF  :icon_scratch:

You cantankerous lonely fuck. 

What did anything I said have anything to do with you and your ability to school kids? 

But since you started an unprovoked fight with me, you don't know shit about raising your own kids because you never had any.  It's really that simple. 

You can know about something you've read about, or something you can relate to, or something you learned in school.  But all of that is a poor substitute for the real thing.  All of that is not the actual thing itself.  You can study child psychology, get a doctorate in it even, and if you don't have your own kids...you don't know shit about having your own kids. 

Those who can, do, those who can't, teach...I believe that's a saying that fits the bill here. 



You may know how to school kids, but you don't know shit about raising them. 
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on February 24, 2018, 06:08:09 PM


So next time you tell me I don't know about raising kids, just STFU.

RE

WTF  :icon_scratch:

You cantankerous lonely fuck. 

What did anything I said have anything to do with you and your ability to school kids? 

But since you started an unprovoked fight with me, you don't know shit about raising your own kids because you never had any.  It's really that simple. 

You can know about something you've read about, or something you can relate to, or something you learned in school.  But all of that is a poor substitute for the real thing.  All of that is not the actual thing itself.  You can study child psychology, get a doctorate in it even, and if you don't have your own kids...you don't know shit about having your own kids. 

Those who can, do, those who can't, teach...I believe that's a saying that fits the bill here. 

You may know how to school kids, but you don't know shit about raising them.

I know more than you will ever know about raising kids, especially if you spend the rest of your days behind the wheel of a truck.

I have no problem with raising kids, because I understand how they operate and how to train them to behave.   I watched you for a week LD, you got no clue on this.  You don't know how to reward or punish behavior issues.  You YELL at them and make mean faces and say "I will KILL you if you do that again", but the kid learns quickly they won't be killed.  You have to follow through with punishment and reward, and they have to be appropriate to the behavior and the child involved as to what works and what does not.

In my raising of the gymmies, in any given group you had the EZ ones who were pleasers and the tough ones who were disobedient.  Always more of the 2nd type with the boys than the girls.  With girls, maybe 25% disobedient.  With boys, 50%.  That is ballpark though, it varies.  The real KEY for this though is you have to be uncompromising and absolutely authorotative when the time has come to squash a behavior that is inappropriate.  You have to HAMMER DOWN, and hammer down hard with something that the kid wants but won't get if they continue the behavior, or something that hurts like a spanking.  In my profession, we could not spank, so I had to find psychological means to spank them, and I spent 30 years refining that technique.  That is why my gymmies were always so good in the end.  Well disciplined.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: luciddreams on February 24, 2018, 07:48:43 PM


I know more than you will ever know about raising kids, especially if you spend the rest of your days behind the wheel of a truck.

No, you know nothing about raising kids.  You don't have any kids.  That's like saying you know Aikido better than me and you've never trained a day in your life.  That would be like me saying I know gymnastics better than you because I trained in gymnastics when I was 8 for a year (which I did). 

Quote
I have no problem with raising kids, because I understand how they operate and how to train them to behave.


Right, cause you had so many kids.  You know how to "train them," because that's what you did.  You did not raise them, so lets not pretend like you did.  You didn't. 

Quote
I watched you for a week LD, you got no clue on this. 

Well if it's training gymies that you are talking about you are correct.  I have no idea how to train them.  That seems to me what you are talking about.  You most certainly are not talking about raising your own children because you know nothing about it having never procreated. 


Quote
You don't know how to reward or punish behavior issues.  You YELL at them and make mean faces and say "I will KILL you if you do that again", but the kid learns quickly they won't be killed. 

Don't even do that.  Don't quote me saying I'm going to kill my kids.  I never once have said to my kids that I'm going to kill them.  Not once, ever, nor will I ever, because I would never do that to my kids.  You did not hear me say that. 


Quote
You have to follow through with punishment and reward, and they have to be appropriate to the behavior and the child involved as to what works and what does not.

Yep, Dr. RE comin' with some deep knowledge on kid psychology. 

Quote
In my raising of the gymmies, in any given group you had the EZ ones who were pleasers and the tough ones who were disobedient. 

You did not raise kids RE, you taught them gymnastics. 

Quote
Always more of the 2nd type with the boys than the girls.  With girls, maybe 25% disobedient.  With boys, 50%.  That is ballpark though, it varies. 

Yep, little boys get into more trouble and generally are not as intelligent as little girls.  Again, more bright insight from Dr. RE. 

Quote
The real KEY for this though is you have to be uncompromising and absolutely authorotative when the time has come to squash a behavior that is inappropriate.  You have to HAMMER DOWN, and hammer down hard with something that the kid wants but won't get if they continue the behavior, or something that hurts like a spanking. 

Hammer down like "I'm gonna kill you"?  Sounds like maybe you got yourself confused with me.  I'd never say that to my kids, but maybe you and your hammer would. 


Quote
In my profession, we could not spank,

So if you could you would?

Quote
so I had to find psychological means to spank them, and I spent 30 years refining that technique.  That is why my gymmies were always so good in the end.  Well disciplined.

RE

Let me translate for those of you who may be reading this and don't know RE as well as I do.  This last sentence really says "this is why I'm the best gymnastic coach ever, because I could psychologically abuse my gymies with razor sharp precision.  In fact I spent 30 years honing the technique.  That's what my gymmies were the best.  Because of me.  I'm the best.  I'm better then you.  In fact, I'm so good I'm even better then Dump.  Dump has nothing on me...and I mean it, I'm just better."

Whatever RE.  Carve it on your fuckin' self made modern day pyramid. 
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: g on February 24, 2018, 07:57:08 PM
Quote
The cop, IMO, it was his job to do something about those kids getting shut the fuck up.  Why is he at the school with a gun otherwise?  Seriously?  Why is this even something that's being debated? 

Again I find myself in complete agreement with you Lucid.

While I am known for preaching there are two sides two every coin, I can't flip this one over to it's other side.

Hate to say it, supposed to know better, but if the parents of those poor murdered kids get hold of this
POS like the Italians did Mussolini and string him up by his balls, I'll be playing "Ain't That a Shame" by Fats Domino.


                                         http://www.youtube.com/v/xbfMlk1PwGU
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on February 24, 2018, 07:57:55 PM
Best of luck to you as well raising kids from behind the wheel of an International.  :icon_sunny:

You gotta spend the TIME with them, hours and hours a day.  It takes a lot of PATIENCE.  You have to have the TEMPERAMENT for it. You said so yourself.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: luciddreams on February 24, 2018, 08:16:06 PM
Best of luck to you as well raising kids from behind the wheel of an International.  :icon_sunny:

Yeah, that's right, I'm the guy you are always supposedly defending when you argue with OX about the useless eaters.  When you argue the case of those, and those like me, whom can't afford whatever it is we need.  Yeah, my gross looks a whole fuckin' lot less then my net. 


Quote
You gotta spend the TIME with them, hours and hours a day. 

Thanks for reminding me that I can't AFFORD to spend time with them in person much anymore.  Hours and days, yeah, I spend them driving a semi down the road with the commodities that keep BAU going...keep the electricity on, the roads working, the houses built, the infrastructure functioning.  Hours and days I spend driving those commodities down the road so that my children can have Aikido lessons, nice clothing, straight teeth, and somewhat of a future (pending BAU continues).  But thanks for rubbing it in that my bliss failed.  That I can't weave beautiful baskets any longer out of bamboo that I grew, cured, treated, and split with a traditional Japanese blade while interning with an old Japanese man from Japan. 

Quote
It takes a lot of PATIENCE.  You have to have the TEMPERAMENT for it. You said so yourself.

RE

no, it most certainly takes more patience and temperament to deal with your bullshit RE. 

You have no idea about the patience and temperament it takes to raise your own children.  After your 8 hour day with your gymmies you went home to your cigarettes, liquor, food, and overall general lack of necessary mentorship and guidance that a parent must display 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year (on a long year).  Even when parents are at work they are still on the hook for their kids.  They can't say "you fucked up, you can't be a gymmie any longer in my gym."  They have to suck it up and continue keepin' on, trying, to raise their children right.  They have to continue because otherwise the county jail and private for profit prisons, along with the military will. 
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Surly1 on February 24, 2018, 08:18:44 PM
Quote
The cop, IMO, it was his job to do something about those kids getting shut the fuck up.  Why is he at the school with a gun otherwise?  Seriously?  Why is this even something that's being debated? 

Again I find myself in complete agreement with you Lucid.

While I am known for preaching there are two sides two every coin, I can't flip this one over to it's other side.

Hate to say it, supposed to know better, but if the parents of those poor murdered kids get hold of this
POS like the Italians did Mussolini and string him up by his balls, I'll be playing "Ain't That a Shame" by Fats Domino.

http://www.youtube.com/v/xbfMlk1PwGU

Kickin' it old school:
(http://c8.alamy.com/comp/D987FK/benito-mussolini-1883-1945-and-his-mistress-clara-petacci-hanging-D987FK.jpg)

I also saw an article this evening in passing that says there were now four guards who failed to go in.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on February 24, 2018, 08:20:38 PM
12 hour day, 250 days a year.  Plus the clinics and meets on the weekends.

RE

Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: luciddreams on February 24, 2018, 08:22:07 PM
12 hour day, 250 days a year.  Plus the clinics and meets on the weekends.

RE

lol
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on February 24, 2018, 08:22:57 PM
I also saw an article this evening in passing that says there were now four guards who failed to go in.

Yes, I saw that also.  If that is the case, then they HAD backup and there is no excuse.  But why is only this one cop being hung out to dry? ???  :icon_scratch:

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on February 24, 2018, 08:23:41 PM
12 hour day, 250 days a year.  Plus the clinics and meets on the weekends.

RE

lol

lolol
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: g on February 24, 2018, 08:28:57 PM
You know, No one is really seriously talking false flag on this one, but just maybe this is the actual planned out Real McCoy???????"

The added cops to the story is giving it a surreal appearance.  :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch: :dontknow: :dontknow:
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: luciddreams on February 24, 2018, 08:29:21 PM
I also saw an article this evening in passing that says there were now four guards who failed to go in.

Yes, I saw that also.  If that is the case, then they HAD backup and there is no excuse.  But why is only this one cop being hung out to dry? ???  :icon_scratch:

RE

My guess is because the Corporatocracy controls the MSM and therefore the "news."  It's damage control, and  he's the scapegoat. 

I believe this story as much as I believe the Vegas shooting. 

You can't believe ANYTHING that's on the MSM's radar. 

It's not conspiracy theory if it's reality. 
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on February 24, 2018, 08:45:08 PM
I also saw an article this evening in passing that says there were now four guards who failed to go in.

Yes, I saw that also.  If that is the case, then they HAD backup and there is no excuse.  But why is only this one cop being hung out to dry? ???  :icon_scratch:

RE

My guess is because the Corporatocracy controls the MSM and therefore the "news."  It's damage control, and  he's the scapegoat. 

I believe this story as much as I believe the Vegas shooting. 

You can't believe ANYTHING that's on the MSM's radar. 

It's not conspiracy theory if it's reality.

It's definitely scapegoating no matter how you look at it.

Now, here is the thing about these "deputies" that get assigned to school security details.  These are CUSHY jobs in general.  These guys don't really WANT to put themselves in the middle of a firefight.  Not much different than your TSA Security officers in the airport.  They carry gunz, but if confronted with a bunch of terrorists with AK-47s, they aren't going to confront them or do much.  They'll wait for the DHS to roll in with the heavy artillery and the "experts" at negotiating with terrorists.  This more than likely is what they have been told is the protocol.  Meanwhile of course, the plane load of passengers are all DEAD.  Well, except a few needed as hostages anyhow.

RE
Title: 🔫 Students And Parents Affected By Florida School Shooting Say Trump's Idea
Post by: RE on February 25, 2018, 12:17:31 AM
https://www.buzzfeed.com/briannasacks/students-and-parents-react-to-armed-teacher-proposal?utm_term=.uckaW0Dz0#.tdgqBdJVd (https://www.buzzfeed.com/briannasacks/students-and-parents-react-to-armed-teacher-proposal?utm_term=.uckaW0Dz0#.tdgqBdJVd)

Students And Parents Affected By Florida School Shooting Say Trump's Idea Of Arming Teachers Is "Absurd"

"I honestly believed he was listening and compassionate toward us and did a great job, but as soon as I heard him say we should arm teachers, I was in shock."
Posted on February 24, 2018, at 4:55 p.m
.
Brianna Sacks
(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2018-02/24/20/asset/buzzfeed-prod-fastlane-03/sub-buzz-25997-1519521414-8.jpg?downsize=715:*&output-format=auto&output-quality=auto)
Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School senior Samuel Zeif weeps after talking about how his best friend was killed during last week's mass shooting during a listening session hosted by President Trump.
Chip Somodevilla / Getty Images


Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School senior Samuel Zeif weeps after talking about how his best friend was killed during last week's mass shooting during a listening session hosted by President Trump.

After pleading with President Trump to enact stricter gun laws during an emotional, tense White House listening session last week, several Parkland, Florida, students and their parents say they are disappointed by his continued campaign to arm teachers.

In the wake of the Valentine's Day school shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, in which 17 people died, the president has repeatedly touted the idea to arm teachers across the country with concealed weapons as an added layer of security against mass shootings in schools.

"The teacher would have shot the hell out of him before he knew what happened," Trump said Friday. "These teachers love their students. And these teachers are talented with weaponry and with guns. And they feel safe."

The next day, he suggested that teachers trained to fire weapons "should get a yearly bonus," but that it should be "up to states" to implement any such program.

His ongoing comments have riled politicians, educators, parents, and students who contend that arming teachers is not the answer to the nation's gun problem, nor should it be the responsibility of a teacher to learn how to carry and use a weapon while also instructing dozens of children in districts already sapped of resources.

Several students who survived the Florida school shooting, as well as their parents, attended a listening session with the president last week in hopes to persuade him to change federal gun laws. They said that while they felt Trump was compassionate and empathetic, they were incensed by his push to put guns in classrooms.
Parent Melissa Blank (left) and Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shooting survivors Jonathan Blank (second left) and Julia Cordover (second right) attend the White House listening session.
Jonathan Ernst / Reuters

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Parent Melissa Blank (left) and Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shooting survivors Jonathan Blank (second left) and Julia Cordover (second right) attend the White House listening session.

"I felt that Trump was sincere and the White House was respectful when I was there," Melissa Blank, whose son, Jonathan, survived the shooting, told BuzzFeed News. "I honestly believed he was listening and compassionate toward us and did a great job, but as soon as I heard him say we should arm teachers, I was in shock."

Blank, a teacher's aide at Westglades middle school, which is near Stoneman Douglas, recounted the two horrific hours in which she tried to calm a classroom of petrified seventh-graders while barring the door in case a gunman came barreling in.

"I am holding this door and at the same time trying to text my son, who is in the high school, and he finally answers, 'Mom, students next to me are getting shot,' and then no response after that," she said. "Can you imagine what that is like and then to hear the president say he wants to arm teachers. It's absurd. Are you out of of your mind?"

Jonathan Blank watched two of his classmates die "right in front of me" during his Holocaust study class. While he, like his mother, is not against guns if "someone needs it to protect themselves and they are old enough to handle it," he doesn't think teachers should have them.

"I don't believe guns in the classroom is the way to go," the 17-year-old said. "I think security guards should have a gun, but not a rifle. Why does anyone need this type of gun at all? I don't understand."
Justin Gruber and his father, Cary Gruber.
Chip Somodevilla / Getty Images

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Justin Gruber and his father, Cary Gruber.

For 15-year-old Justin Gruber, meeting the president was a "powerful, emotional, and moving experience," but the school shooting survivor said he does not feel the president is pitching constructive ideas to ensure a gunman can never again walk onto a campus with an assault weapon and open fire.

"I feel that he wants to make change, but I don’t see realistic, sensible solutions," said Gruber, who, like many in his community, is advocating for an assault weapons ban. "They are weapons of war. The founding fathers intended using weapons for defense, not offense."

Raising the age so that an 18-year-old can no longer buy an assault rifle "is a step in the right direction," Gruber said, but he added that it won't "do the amount of change that needs to be done."

The sophomore also said arming teachers is a "terrible idea."

"Adding guns to solve a gun problem will increase the possible negative outcomes," he said. "Teachers shouldn't have to be trained to carry weapons. They are supposed to mold the minds of the next generation."

Just days before he and his other nearly 3,300 classmates are set to go back to school, Gruber said he was disappointed with the ongoing discussions by politicians as to how the country should proceed after the latest mass shooting tragedy.

"If there is not significant change in this country right now, these tragedies will keep happening again and again," he said. "The president and senators need to write legislation to fix this."

In an interview with CNN, Stoneman Douglas senior Samuel Zeif said he doesn't think Trump will take action, nor does he have hope that the president will push for legislation.

"I just feel everyone saw on his note card, 'I hear you,' and I think he did hear us, but I don't think he was listening to us, mainly because he only listens to people putting money in his pocket," said Zeif, who added that he also does not think raising the age limit goes far enough.

"We had a long talk with [the president] and I'm sure that right after we left, after everyone was gone, he had a long talk with the NRA," he said. "And who is he going to listen to?"

Instead of arming teachers, Gruber and Melissa Blank say they would like to see that money and resources funneled into mental health programs and tighter school security, such as bullet proof windows, automatic locks, steel reinforced doors, and more deputies on campuses.

Educators are also in dire need of mental health support, Melissa Blank added.

"Why would we ever think putting guns where there are children is a good idea?" she said. "My son, he doesn't smile anymore. His head is always down. He jumped and turned pale when he heard a dog bark. We need people in our legislation to help us. We need gun control. To the NRA and any of those politicians who won't help us because of the NRA, I say shame on you."

The NRA has lashed out at critics in recent days, pointing the finger at missed opportunities by local and federal authorities to stop the 19-year-old shooter weeks before the attack.

In a defiant speech to the Conservative Political Action Conference last week, NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre accused critics of exploiting the Florida tragedy for political gain.

"What they want are more restrictions on the law-abiding — think about that," LaPierre said. "Their solution is to make you, all of you, less free. They want to sweep right under the carpet the failure of school security, the failure of the family, the failure of America's school systems and even the unbelievable failure of the FBI."

And not everyone affected by the tragedy is pessimistic when it comes to Trump.

Andrew Pollack, who lost his 18-year-old daughter, Meadow, in the shooting, gripped the nation with a powerful address to Trump during the listening session. The grieving father told BuzzFeed News that he felt "the president heard what he had to say and that he is going to act."

"I am for safe schools," he said. "That is what I want."

Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Surly1 on February 25, 2018, 03:37:59 AM

It's definitely scapegoating no matter how you look at it.

Now, here is the thing about these "deputies" that get assigned to school security details.  These are CUSHY jobs in general.  These guys don't really WANT to put themselves in the middle of a firefight.  Not much different than your TSA Security officers in the airport.  They carry gunz, but if confronted with a bunch of terrorists with AK-47s, they aren't going to confront them or do much.  They'll wait for the DHS to roll in with the heavy artillery and the "experts" at negotiating with terrorists.  This more than likely is what they have been told is the protocol.  Meanwhile of course, the plane load of passengers are all DEAD.  Well, except a few needed as hostages anyhow.

RE

This is what bears examination. Just what WAS the protocol? I have read both that it was establish a perimeter and wait for SWAT teams, and then that it was changed to "go in and confront." Be nice to have the facts before the hanging.
Title: Murder in GO'S Hometown at The Public Library
Post by: g on February 25, 2018, 04:50:24 AM
Was in a tizzy yesterday. There was a murder in my town yesterday.

At the Public Library no less. A place where I go to relax and read periodicals and literary journals often and most all my life. It would be hard for to me to describe a more quiet friendly place, with the nicest
of people. The Public Library and Library at MIT were always my two favorite places for reading and learning, as well as escaping the hum dum of every day noise and media.

A nut job comes in, twenty two years old, kills a young woman with a knife and a 77 year old man who tried to help her with a 10 inch knife. Man survived in hospital it appears young lady is dead

Looney tune was known to police. Areested weeks before for throwing a plant threw a window. Was OFF HIS MEDS said the police..

Hardly a peep about it anywhere, it was ONLY ONE dead. Of course the fact that he used a knife makes it a non story for the worthless shit that are known as the MSM.

What a shame it wasn't a gun, huh Liberals
[/i] :-\


bostonherald.com
Neighbors warned authorities Winchester stabbing suspect would 'kill somebody'
3-4 minutes

 Neighbors of a 23-year-old man accused of fatally stabbing a woman with a 10-inch hunting knife during a rampage inside Winchester Public Library today say his behavior has been increasingly erratic in recent months and one even said he warned authorities that he “will kill somebody.”

“We warned them. We warned them. I can’t believe this,” one of Jeffrey Yao’s neighbors told the Herald. “This whole thing could have been avoided, all of it.”

The neighbor, who asked not to be identified out of fear of retribution, said Yao, identified by authorities as the man who fatally stabbed a 22-year-old Winchester woman inside the library yesterday morning, tried to “smash our door down” at 3 a.m. late last year.

The neighbor, a father of two young children, said he spoke with authorities about the incident and warned them that Yao posed a serious threat to the public.

“I said ... he will kill someone,” the man said. “He will kill the family or he will kill somebody.”

At about 10 a.m., Yao approached the 22-year-old victim from behind as she was sitting in a reading section of the Washington Street library and repeatedly plunged a hunting knife with a 10-inch blade into her body, Middlesex District Attorney Marian T. Ryan said, leaving her with “a number of slash and stab wounds to the head and upper torso.”

One eyewitness told the Herald he heard a loud commotion coming from the reading section and saw Yao acting agitated and yelling incoherently.

The woman, whose name hasn’t been released, later died from her injuries, Ryan said. A 77-year-old man who was sitting near her at the time of the attack tried to stop the assault and suffered non-life-threatening stab wounds, Ryan said. Other library patrons jumped in and subdued Yao until police arrived, she said.

Ryan said Yao is known to police but declined to elaborate. She said he will be arraigned Monday in Woburn District Court on charges of murder and attempted murder.

His neighbors weren’t surprised to hear Yao was involved in the attack. Some neighbors said he has become increasingly aggressive in recent months and started keying cars, slashing tires and smashing bottles in the street.

One neighbor said she has been keeping her kids inside the house whenever Yao was around. Another said neighborhood residents have taken steps to protect themselves.

“People started buying bats to have by their beds,” she said.

The woman said she and her neighbors tried to warn Winchester police but were told they were aware of Yao’s behavior and had been shadowing him when he leaves his house at night.


Winchester police officials referred all questions to Ryan’s office, which declined to answer questions about authorities’ knowledge of Yao.

The horrific crime in such a public place rattled residents who passed by the scene.

“I tell my kids to come here after school,” said Gina Bellistri. “I’m just a little shocked this is happening.”

The library will remain closed until at least Tuesday.     

                        (http://www.bostonherald.com/sites/default/files/styles/gallery/public/media/2018/02/24/022518yao.jpg?itok=_3hPjGfP)



                       (http://www.winpublib.org/images/home_feb.png)


                       (https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.panoramio.com%2Fphotos%2Flarge%2F10541426.jpg&f=1)

                                  Winchester Public Library


Title: Re: Murder in GO'S Hometown at The Public Library
Post by: Surly1 on February 25, 2018, 05:14:00 AM
Was in a tizzy yesterday. There was a murder in my town yesterday.

Hardly a peep about it anywhere, it was ONLY ONE dead. Of course the fact that he used a knife makes it a non story for the worthless shit that are known as the MSM.

What a shame it wasn't a gun, huh Liberals
[/i] :-\

Has already moved as a national story, as reposted by knarf, below.

And duly noted that you are not in too much of a tizzy as to attempt to politicize a tragedy. And to see it as a personal inconvenience,  a reflexively libertarian attitude. ("It only exists if it happens to me..." an interesting trope the extreme right stole from the Bolsheviks, who used to refer to their opponents as "former people.")

Patrons are not allowed to shit in the corners of the Diner Bar.
Title: Re: Murder in GO'S Hometown at The Public Library
Post by: g on February 25, 2018, 05:27:36 AM
Was in a tizzy yesterday. There was a murder in my town yesterday.

Hardly a peep about it anywhere, it was ONLY ONE dead. Of course the fact that he used a knife makes it a non story for the worthless shit that are known as the MSM.

What a shame it wasn't a gun, huh Liberals
[/i] :-\

Has already moved as a national story, as reposted by knarf, below.

And duly noted that you are not in too much of a tizzy as to attempt to politicize a tragedy. And to see it as a personal inconvenience,  a reflexively libertarian attitude. ("It only exists if it happens to me..." an interesting trope the extreme right stole from the Bolsheviks, who used to refer to their opponents as "former people.")

Patrons are not allowed to shit in the corners of the Diner Bar.

Was in a Tizzy yesterday keen reader, not this morning. Was fearful it might have been a member of my family or one of my friends family. A normal reaction of us Bolsheviks

Knarf posting of a tid bit in Time is not what I call the MSM attention the Florida Shooter story has received.

Understood that you find the truth to be Shit, rather obvious for a long time.

If you ever post anything that isn't politicized, kindly put a small notation next to it so I'll read it.  Thanks

Title: Re: Murder in GO'S Hometown at The Public Library
Post by: Surly1 on February 25, 2018, 05:47:31 AM
Was in a tizzy yesterday. There was a murder in my town yesterday.

Hardly a peep about it anywhere, it was ONLY ONE dead. Of course the fact that he used a knife makes it a non story for the worthless shit that are known as the MSM.

What a shame it wasn't a gun, huh Liberals
[/i] :-\

Has already moved as a national story, as reposted by knarf, below.

And duly noted that you are not in too much of a tizzy as to attempt to politicize a tragedy. And to see it as a personal inconvenience,  a reflexively libertarian attitude. ("It only exists if it happens to me..." an interesting trope the extreme right stole from the Bolsheviks, who used to refer to their opponents as "former people.")

Patrons are not allowed to shit in the corners of the Diner Bar.

Was in a Tizzy yesterday keen reader, not this morning. Was fearful it might have been a member of my family or one of my friends family. A normal reaction of us Bolsheviks

Knarf posting of a tid bit in Time is not what I call the MSM attention the Florida Shooter story has received.

Incorrect. Knarf's posting demonstrated that the story had already moved to national attention. Perhaps it has not received the national attention of the latest NSA-sponsored bloodbath in Parkland, but moved it has.

Understood that you find the truth to be Shit, rather obvious for a long time.

Confusing, and a non-sequitur. I post truth, as well as needed correctives to Ayn Rand-inspired satanist claptrap, every day.

If you ever post anything that isn't politicized, kindly put a small notation next to it so I'll read it.  Thanks

I post such every day. Close your pie hole, open your eyes, and read for comprehension.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Surly1 on February 25, 2018, 06:06:47 AM
It must be said that a murder at a public library is a genuinely horrific event. It offends the spirit and offends our perceived sense of order. It seems a grievous sacrilege.

Every week I receive an email from someone named Maria Popova entitled "Brain Pickings," which is generally a welcome diversion from doom, politics, and news, news, news. In looking over this weeks offering, with links to worthwhile and possibly rewarding articles, this seemed timely.

The Temple of Knowledge: An Animated Celebration of How Libraries Change Lives
 (https://www.brainpickings.org/2018/02/20/the-temple-of-knowledge-storycorps/?utm_source=Brain Pickings&utm_campaign=9239059484-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_02_24&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_179ffa2629-9239059484-237848461&mc_cid=9239059484&mc_eid=8fd4b1e5d2)

The Temple of Knowledge: An Animated Celebration of How Libraries Change Lives

One man’s love letter to finding higher horizons among the stacks.

“Knowledge sets us free, art sets us free. A great library is freedom,” Ursula K. Le Guin wrote in her beautiful essay on the sacredness of public libraries. “A library is a rainbow in the clouds,” Maya Angelou exulted in reflecting on how a library saved her life. It was thanks to the library that James Baldwin read his way from Harlem to the literary pantheon. “You never know what troubled little girl needs a book,” Nikki Giovanni wrote in one of her wonderful poems celebrating libraries and librarians.

This life-altering power of libraries is what humanistic oral history powerhouse StoryCorps celebrates in The Temple of Knowledge — a lovely animated memoir by Ronald Clark, whose father served as custodian of a New York Public Library branch in an era when library caretakers and their families lived among the books.

Complement with another wonderful StoryCorps short on how a library saved a young Native American woman’s life, then revisit Robert Dawson’s photographic love letter to public libraries, Carl Sagan on how reading paves the way for democracy, and Maurice Sendak’s marvelous vintage posters celebrating libraries and reading.

 
 

Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on February 25, 2018, 06:18:16 AM

It's definitely scapegoating no matter how you look at it.

Now, here is the thing about these "deputies" that get assigned to school security details.  These are CUSHY jobs in general.  These guys don't really WANT to put themselves in the middle of a firefight.  Not much different than your TSA Security officers in the airport.  They carry gunz, but if confronted with a bunch of terrorists with AK-47s, they aren't going to confront them or do much.  They'll wait for the DHS to roll in with the heavy artillery and the "experts" at negotiating with terrorists.  This more than likely is what they have been told is the protocol.  Meanwhile of course, the plane load of passengers are all DEAD.  Well, except a few needed as hostages anyhow.

RE

This is what bears examination. Just what WAS the protocol? I have read both that it was establish a perimeter and wait for SWAT teams, and then that it was changed to "go in and confront." Be nice to have the facts before the hanging.

You will get the appropriate "Alternative Facts".

RE
Title: Transcript of call to FBI Warning Nikolas Cruz was Going to Explode
Post by: g on February 25, 2018, 09:09:39 AM
(https://screenshotscdn.firefoxusercontent.com/images/9c509315-9e1d-43ef-b24f-35dfcc464098.jpg)

GO--your image did not come through. I tried to fix it, but following the link, I can't see it.
Sorry.

                                 
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: g on February 26, 2018, 08:22:10 AM

                 (https://screenshotscdn.firefoxusercontent.com/images/dfb1f60e-8fc3-45d6-8109-d3434bf9d9fe.png)

Lot's more in this amazing article Diners.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5433695/Florida-school-shooter-called-cops-mom-died.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5433695/Florida-school-shooter-called-cops-mom-died.html) :icon_study:
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Palloy2 on February 26, 2018, 05:58:43 PM
In the rush to report on everything instantly, lots of stuff comes out later.

It turns out Cruz was adopted at birth, and had "development difficulties" later described as "autism, depression, ADHD". At 5 he discovered his adopted father dead from a heart attack.  He was bullied at school, and was moved to a school for "behaviorally disturbed" children.   Police were constantly visiting his home during his teenage years.   Some people said he was "normal" and some that he was not.  Hints of schizophrenia shown.  At 16 his adopted mother died of pneumonia, and he rang police in a distressed state.  He was into guns and shooting and called himself a professional school shooter.

Clearly this was not a normal person, but there wasn't appropriate treatment available (how could there be in a privatised health system?)  The best one could expect would be to have him locked up till he got better.

The first policeman called to the school thought he heard shots outside in the school grounds, and took the appropriate action - found a protected location and waited.  He probably conveyed that to the second group of police.

In other words, someone who was mentally ill, and should have been locked up, was able to buy an SR-15 and shoot up his school.  And the response is to ban bump stocks, which he didn't use, and arm teachers.  Hmmm.

Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on February 26, 2018, 06:32:53 PM
Because the legislature is bought and paid for. It doesn't matter what citizens want as long as it doesn't impact getting re-elected.

Money and influence are primary. If the public absolutely demands a change and it's obvious heads are gonna roll, then all of a sudden the tune might change. Politicians don't seem to think we're there yet.

I heard that old saw on the radio from the Kansas Governor, that free-market Republican genius. If they're old enough to be soldiers, they're old enough to"exercise their 2nd amendment rights".

How about.....if they're dumb enough to want to be soldiers, we should question their sanity.

Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on February 26, 2018, 06:36:40 PM
In the rush to report on everything instantly, lots of stuff comes out later.

It turns out Cruz was adopted at birth, and had "development difficulties" later described as "autism, depression, ADHD". At 5 he discovered his adopted father dead from a heart attack.  He was bullied at school, and was moved to a school for "behaviorally disturbed" children.   Police were constantly visiting his home during his teenage years.   Some people said he was "normal" and some that he was not.  Hints of schizophrenia shown.  At 16 his adopted mother died of pneumonia, and he rang police in a distressed state.  He was into guns and shooting and called himself a professional school shooter.

Clearly this was not a normal person, but there wasn't appropriate treatment available (how could there be in a privatised health system?)  The best one could expect would be to have him locked up till he got better.

The first policeman called to the school thought he heard shots outside in the school grounds, and took the appropriate action - found a protected location and waited.  He probably conveyed that to the second group of police.

In other words, someone who was mentally ill, and should have been locked up, was able to buy an SR-15 and shoot up his school.  And the response is to ban bump stocks, which he didn't use, and arm teachers.  Hmmm.

A System Failure,  assuming all these "facts" are accurate.

Banning Bump Stocks and raising the age limit are palliatives to show they are "doing something".  Of course neither one of these measures will prevent another psycho from getting hold of an AR-15 and going out on a Shoot-em-Up.  You absolutely need comprehensive background checks, but these are expensive to do.  That would probably double the cost to buy a gun, which would then depress gun sales which is not good for gun manufacturers or the NRA.  So they lobby against this and sprinkle money out to the Pols to prevent this.  They aren't even real happy with the age limit being raised either.

As you will note of course, a week after this latest Lead Spraying Event, it has mostly left the MSM Newz Cycle.  It's just another Industrial Civilization "accident".  There will be many more such accidents in the future.

RE
Title: GUN CONTROL quickly stalls in the Senate, as HOUSE DEMOCRATS agitate for action
Post by: RE on February 27, 2018, 04:26:24 AM
https://www.politico.com/newsletters/playbook/2018/02/27/fix-nics-senate-debate-gun-control-251408 (https://www.politico.com/newsletters/playbook/2018/02/27/fix-nics-senate-debate-gun-control-251408)

Politico

Playbook

About The Author

About The AuthorJake Sherman is a senior writer for POLITICO and co-author of POLITICO’s Playbook, the most indispensable morning newsletter for the biggest influencers in politics.

Jake is the top congressional reporter on Capitol Hill and has built a career on landing hard-to-get scoops

Since 2009, Jake has chronicled all of the major legislative battles on Capitol Hill, and has also traveled the country to cover the battle for control of Congress.

Jake takes readers inside the rooms where decisions are made. His high-impact reporting resulted in the resignation of Aaron Schock.

Before landing at POLITICO, Jake worked in the Washington bureaus of The Wall Street Journal, Newsweek and the Minneapolis Star Tribune. He also interned on the metro desk of The Journal News (N.Y.) and, during high school, worked on the sports desk of the Stamford Advocate (Conn.).

Jake is a Connecticut native, and a graduate of The George Washington University — where he edited The GW Hatchet — and Columbia University's Graduate School of Journalism. Jake lives in Washington with his wife Irene, and listens to an unhealthy amount of Grateful Dead and Phish.

SUBSCRIBE to Politico Playbook: http://politi.co/2lQswbh

About The Author

About The AuthorAnna Palmer is a senior Washington correspondent for POLITICO and co-author of POLITICO’s Playbook, the most indispensable morning newsletter for the biggest influencers in politics.

Anna covers the world of Congress and politics, and has successfully chronicled the business of Washington insiders for years. Her stories take readers behind the scenes for the biggest fights in Washington as well as the 2016 election.

Prior to becoming POLITICO’s senior Washington correspondent, Anna was the co-author of the daily newsletter, POLITICO Influence, considered a must-read on K Street.

Anna previously covered House leadership and lobbying as a staff writer for Roll Call. She got her start in Washington journalism as a lobbying business reporter for the industry newsletter Influence. She has also worked at Legal Times, where she covered the intersection of money and politics for the legal and lobbying industry, first as a staff writer and then as an editor.

A native of North Dakota, Anna is a graduate of St. Olaf College, where she was executive editor of the weekly campus newspaper, the Manitou Messenger. She lives in Washington, D.C.

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About The Author

About The AuthorDaniel Lippman is a reporter for POLITICO and a co-author of POLITICO's Playbook, the most indispensable morning newsletter for the biggest influencers in politics.

Before joining POLITICO, he was a fellow covering environmental news for E&E Publishing and a reporter for The Wall Street Journal in New York. He has also interned for McClatchy Newspapers and Reuters. During a stint freelancing in 2013, he traveled to the Turkish-Syrian border to cover the impact of the Syrian civil war for The Huffington Post and CNN.com.

He graduated from The Hotchkiss School in 2008 and from The George Washington University in 2012. Daniel hails from the Berkshires in western Massachusetts and enjoys playing tennis, seeing movies and trying out new restaurants in his free time.

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Playbook: GUN CONTROL quickly stalls in the Senate, as HOUSE DEMOCRATS agitate for action

 

02/27/2018 06:19 AM EST

Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah) held up quick passage of the Fix NICS bill, while Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer said just passing that bill is limiting the gun violence debate. | Rick Bowmer/AP Photo

Driving the Day

IN CASE YOU MISSED IT (YOU PROBABLY DID) … AS OF LAST NIGHT, 87 HOUSE DEMOCRATS have signed a discharge petition to try to force a vote on a bill that would “ensure that all individuals who should be prohibited from buying a firearm are listed in the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, and provide a responsible and consistent background check process.”

-- A DISCHARGE PETITION is really the only way the minority can pressure the majority to bring a bill to the floor. It needs another 129 signatures to make it to the floor -- that means Republicans need to sign on, as well. The signers http://bit.ly/2BU7U8L

 

Good Tuesday morning. BILLY GRAHAM LOGISTICS, from Steve Scalise’s office: “The Reverend Billy Graham will lie in honor in the Rotunda of the United States Capitol on Wednesday, February 28, 2018. An arrival ceremony will be held in the Capitol Rotunda at 11:00 AM. This ceremony will be open only to the Reverend Graham’s family, friends, Members of the House of Representatives, Senators, and other members of the government. Members are requested to assemble in the House Chamber at 10:10 AM and proceed into the Rotunda at 10:25 AM.”

GUN CONTROL IS HARD (#GCIH), via Burgess Everett: “The Senate stumbled out of the gate Monday in its efforts to enact even modest gun legislation, raising doubts about whether Congress can do anything in the wake of this month’s massacre at a Florida high school. Senate Republicans, backed by the National Rifle Association and President Donald Trump, are pressing to quickly pass a narrow bill aimed at improving records and information-sharing in the FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System.

“But attempts to pass the bill, called Fix NICS, encountered resistance from opposite ends of the political spectrum on Monday: Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah), a conservative, held up quick passage of the bill even as Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) blasted the GOP for shirking a broader debate on gun violence.

“Senate Democrats say the Fix NICS bill falls far short of the action that Capitol Hill should take in an era of increasingly frequent mass shootings. ‘If we only pass Fix NICS, we’ll be right back here after the next shooting, in nearly the same place. If all Congress does in response to the Parkland shooting is to pass Fix NICS, we won’t have done our job. We must do more than that,’ Schumer said on the Senate floor Monday. He said the Senate should at least pass legislation implementing universal background checks.” http://politi.co/2EUG52J

-- BEHIND THE SCENES: FIX NICS urges governments to report to the nation’s criminal background check network -- and punishes those who don’t. But in the House, leaders promised conservatives that this would be tied up with a bill that allows people to carry concealed weapons across state lines. Unraveling that promise was the subject of a particularly long -- and animated -- House Freedom Caucus meeting Monday night on Capitol Hill. ...

... SPEAKER PAUL RYAN and the House GOP leadership says they’ll wait to see what the Senate passes before they make any decisions what to do on guns. The House has passed the NICS bill.

ATLANTA JOURNAL CONSTITUTION’S GREG BLUESTEIN -- “Delta’s tax break may not take flight after Georgia Senate blocks it”: “Lt. Gov. Casey Cagle said he would not support tax legislation that helped the airline ‘unless the company changes its position and fully reinstates its relationship with the NRA.’ He echoed a growing number of conservatives who opposed the measure over the weekend. …

“That move forced Gov. Nathan Deal and other supporters of the $50 million jet fuel sales tax exemption to shift to the defensive, and prompted a growing number of Republicans to try to strip the provision out of a broader tax-cut bill that has already passed the state House.” http://on-ajc.com/2GNcc0J

HEADS UP -- BORDER ADJUSTMENT TAX BACK? … KEEP YOUR EARS PEELED: A few sources told us yesterday that the president and the White House have expressed interest recently in reviving something that looks like the border-adjustment tax -- a Paul Ryan-promoted idea the GOP killed during the tax debate. This is a stunning development, as Republicans fought hard to kill this idea, partially because the president was skeptical of its utility. The BAT, as it was called in Republican circles, taxed imported goods. Many saw it as a way to fulfill Trump's promise on slapping tariffs on imported goods.

DISPATCH FROM DOUG PALMER -- STEEL COMPANIES TARGET TRUMP: “President Donald Trump tunes into Fox News, MSNBC or CNN this morning, he can expect to see an ad urging him to keep his promise to restrict steel imports, the leader of a group whose members include U.S. Steel, ArcelorMittal and the United Steelworkers union told Morning Trade. “President Trump, America’s workers are counting on you to protect our job and defend our national security. It’s time to keep the promise and protect American steel.” The 30-second spot http://bit.ly/2F68bHB

NOT A GOOD SIGN -- “Congress loses key immigration deal ingredient: A deadline,” by Elana Schor and Heather Caygle: “The already-dwindling political urgency for Congress to reach an immigration deal all but collapsed on Monday when the Supreme Court took a pass on the issue.

“The high court declined to take up the Trump administration’s request to quickly weigh in on the Obama-era program shielding young undocumented immigrants from deportation. It’s a blow to President Donald Trump, whose order to dismantle the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program has already been put on hold by two federal court rulings.

“And now there’s little bite left in the March 5 deadline Trump gave to lawmakers. In a Congress that was already at a stalemate over how to balance relief for DACA recipients with tougher border security, the ruling appeared to further dampen prospects for a legislative compromise — and leave the fate of Dreamers to the courts for months to come.” http://politi.co/2ouPGTF

-- WE ALL KNOW WELL that without a hard deadline, Congress is unlikely to do anything. As our colleague BURGESS EVERETT pointed out a few days ago -- the next best hope for reform advocates was the March 23 spending deadline. But that was before the court’s action. With the court relieving pressure from that deadline -- and Democrats wary to spark a shutdown -- it’s hard to see when immigration legislation might get moving.

****** A message from the Coalition for Affordable Prescription Drugs: Keep Medicare Part D working for seniors. CMS has proposed regulations that will increase costs and cause disruption for millions of seniors. Tell CMS: don’t make changes to popular preferred pharmacy network plans that will stick America’s seniors with higher premiums & drug costs. Learn more. ******

TRUMP FAMILY’S MESS IN PANAMA -- “Bizarre legal brawl intensifies at Trump hotel in Panama,” by WaPo’s Joshua Partlow and David Fahrenthold in Panama City: “Last Thursday afternoon, the majority owner of the Trump International Hotel here in Panama arrived unexpectedly in the building’s swank Sky Lobby with an entourage. He wanted to fire the Trump Organization, which has managed the hotel since it opened in 2011. But the Trump Organization has refused to leave. Since that first confrontation, police have been called multiple times to referee disputes between owner Orestes Fintiklis -- who blames the company’s poor management and damaged brand for the hotel’s declining revenue -- and the Trump Organization, which says it still has a valid contract to manage the place.

“Offices have been barricaded. Several yelling matches have broken out. The power was briefly turned off, in a dispute over the building’s electronic equipment. At one point, Fintiklis — denied a chance to fire the hotel staff or even check into a room — played a tune on the hotel’s lobby piano as an apparent show of defiance. On Monday, Panama’s federal prosecutors said they had opened an investigation into the Trump Organization, after Fintiklis complained that he had been unlawfully blocked from his own property.” http://wapo.st/2EY9KUO

RUSSIA WATCH -- ISAAC DOVERE talks with former CIA Director MICHAEL HAYDEN in the latest “Off Message” podcast. “Hayden isn’t sure about collusion. But when he looks at Trump and the Russians, he sees what he calls ‘convergence.’

“‘There is an eerie and uncomfortable echo between some of the things the president tweets, the different points of emphasis on Fox News, the thematic stories in the alt-right media, and Russian bots,’ Hayden said. ‘I don’t have to create collusion here: Each for their own purposes are well-served by creating deeper divisions within American society. The president, to play to his base; Fox News, for ratings; the alt-right, because they have a conspiratorial view of everything; and the Russians, to mess with our heads.’

-- ON MUELLER: “Hayden reads each of Bob Mueller’s indictments with the eyes of a person who’s run and chased many close-hold operations himself. His own assessment of how much of the iceberg we’ve seen so far: ‘I don’t know, but we keep uncovering more bits of ice.’ And he says he’s ‘very concerned’ what’s coming in the 2018 and 2020 elections could be worse than 2016 -- much, much worse.” http://politi.co/2EW3mS1

A SHOT ACROSS THE BOW -- “Holder group sues Walker for not holding elections in Wisconsin,” by Isaac Dovere: “The National Redistricting Foundation sued Gov. Scott Walker of Wisconsin on Monday for not holding special elections for two state Legislature seats. The seats, left vacant by an assemblyman and state senator who resigned in December to take jobs in Walker’s Republican administration, will otherwise remain open until January 2019, following the regularly scheduled elections for the seats in November. ...

“‘The primary thing at this point is to just hold the damn elections,’ Holder said. ‘Those are basic and fundamental, democratic and American concepts. You hold elections. The question is: ‘What are you afraid of, Scott Walker?’” http://politi.co/2BSfTDb

FOGGY BOTTOM DEPARTURE LOUNGE -- “State Department point man on North Korea, Joe Yun, to retire Friday,” by WaPo’s Anna Fifield in Seoul: “The State Department’s point-man on North Korea, Joseph Yun, will leave his post on Friday, even as there are glimmers of hope that Pyongyang might finally be willing to sit down for talks with Washington. Yun, 63, is retiring as special representative for North Korea policy and deputy assistant secretary for Korea and Japan after more than three decades of service. His departure reflects the widespread frustration within the State Department at diplomats’ relative lack of power in the Trump administration, according to someone familiar with Yun’s thinking.” http://wapo.st/2sYBzut

THE ADMINISTRATION -- “Melania Trump Parts Ways With Adviser Amid Backlash Over Inaugural Contract,” by NYT’s Ken Vogel and Maggie Haberman: “The first lady, Melania Trump, has parted ways with an adviser after news about the adviser’s firm reaping $26 million in payments to help plan President Trump’s inauguration. Stephanie Winston Wolkoff, who has been friends with Mrs. Trump for years, had been working on a contract basis as an unpaid senior adviser to the office of the first lady. Stephanie Grisham, Mrs. Trump’s spokeswoman, said the office had ‘severed the gratuitous services contract with Ms. Wolkoff,’ who Ms. Grisham said had been employed as “a special government employee’ to work on specific projects. ‘We thank her for her hard work and wish her all the best.’ The contract was terminated last week, according to two people with direct knowledge of the situation.” http://nyti.ms/2sWE5Sf

THE JUICE …

-- SPOTTED: Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.) playing the piano last night at the Prime Rib. In the audience at the restaurant: Energy Secretary Rick Perry, Grant King, A.J. Brigg, Jared Michael, James McDonald, Jared Parks, Andrew Kovalcin and Rachel Hicks – pic of Alexander playing with Perry in the background taking a pic http://bit.ly/2GNiaPh ... Peter Thiel last night having dinner at Fiola ... Rep. John Larson (D-Conn.) yesterday at the Capitol Hill Trader Joe’s and “being the responsible environmentalist that he is, had his own shopping bag!” per a tipster.

TRUMP’S TUESDAY -- After the president meets with Republican senators on renewable fuel standards, he will receive the Boy Scouts of America report to the nation. In the afternoon, Trump will meet with House Republicans on trade. Trump will also make an announcement about adding more leadership to the White House initiative on historically black colleges and universities.

FOR YOUR RADAR … NYT’S MAGGIE ASTOR: “The number of reported anti-Semitic incidents surged 57 percent in 2017, according to an annual report by the Anti-Defamation League. The organization’s Audit of Anti-Semitic Incidents, released Tuesday, found 1,986 such incidents in 2017, compared with 1,267 in 2016. That increase was the largest in a single year since the A.D.L. began tracking in 1979.” http://nyti.ms/2Fzo8nz

SOMETHING TO WATCH – Per CNN’s Reliable Sources: “The New York Times has conquered the podcasting world with ‘The Daily.’ Now it wants to crack TV with a weekly news program. The Times is seeking an executive producer for the series, according to this job listing, which has been hiding in plain sight for a few weeks. Sam Dolnick, the assistant managing editor who is overseeing the NYT's new digital initiatives, told me ‘we’re hoping’ the untitled series ‘becomes a showcase for the most ambitious visual journalism of The Times.’

“A production company, Left/Right, is already on board. It has created several segments as tests. The idea is a once-a-week program, about 30 minutes long, although the length could vary. It will feature Times journalists at work and in the field.”

Playbook Reads

THE LUXE ADMINISTRATION -- “Housing official says she was replaced for rejecting Carson’s costly office redecoration,” by The Guardian’s Jon Swaine and Ben Jacobs: “A senior career official in the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development has alleged that she was demoted and replaced with a Donald Trump appointee after refusing to break the law by funding an expensive redecoration of Ben Carson’s office. Helen Foster said she was told ‘$5,000 will not even buy a decent chair’ after informing her bosses this was the legal price limit for improvements to the HUD secretary’s suite at the department’s Washington headquarters. Foster, 47, claimed that she also faced retaliation for exposing a $10m budget shortfall, and for protesting when she was barred from handling a pair of sensitive [FOIA] requests relating to Trump apparently because she was perceived to be a Democrat.” http://bit.ly/2BU5qar

SHOULD TRUMP PUT HIS PERSONAL PILOT IN CHARGE OF ALL FLYING AIRCRAFT? -- “Skepticism reigns about putting Trump’s pilot in charge of FAA,” by Brianna Gurciullo and Tanya Snyder: “[T]he notion of Trump’s pilot as FAA chief is drawing skepticism from people in the industry, who note that recent leaders of the technocratic, $16 billion-a-year agency have typically been people with long experience either in the government or running large organizations.

“In contrast, John Dunkin’s experience since 1989, according to a Smithsonian documentary, has been working ‘on and off’ for Trump as his personal pilot. Dunkin is the Trump Organization's director of aviation operations for a fleet that includes a Boeing 757, a Cessna Citation X business jet and three Sikorsky helicopters. ‘The only person that thinks it’s a good idea, from what I gather, is the president,’ said one lobbyist with aviation clients ... ‘I think it’d be a tough confirmation.’” http://politi.co/2BT7oYI

2018 WATCH -- WHAT REPUBLICANS SHOULD BE READING -- CHARLIE MAHTESIAN in Politico magazine -- “How Republicans Can Win the Midterms”: “As dire as the situation seems for Republicans, the elements of a skin-of-their-teeth escape are coming into focus. Beginning in late December, both the generic congressional ballot and Trump’s approval ratings began ticking upward. These numbers, apparent across almost all polls, were enough to curtail growing talk of a Democratic wave election on the horizon. Even Priorities USA, the biggest Democratic super PAC, took notice. …

“The snapback in the polls may be short-lived. Over the past two weeks, the generic ballot numbers have moved slightly in a Democratic direction. The Republican uptick in the polls could represent a sign that the president and his party are beginning to get credit for the economy and tax cuts, or it could be simply a dead cat bounce. Either way, if the party can keep the generic ballot deficit under about 9 percentage points and the president’s approval ratings can remain in the mid-40s, the GOP is in the range of where it needs to be to have a fighting chance of holding its House majority.” http://politi.co/2oza2dL

****** A message from the Coalition for Affordable Prescription Drugs: Medicare Part D is working for seniors. An important part of the program’s success comes from preferred pharmacy networks that promote quality and lower drug prices. Preferred pharmacy plans keep premiums low and are the most popular choice for seniors enrolled in Part D. But now, CMS is considering changes that would prevent seniors from choosing plans with preferred pharmacy networks. Tell CMS to stop proposed changes to Medicare Part D that would disrupt preferred pharmacy networks and hurt millions of seniors. Learn more. ******

MARC CAPUTO: Rick Scott gets gun control makeover”: “Florida Gov. Rick Scott broke with President Trump over the question of gun-toting educators. He’s ticked off the NRA. Suddenly, he’s in good graces with the state teachers’ union, his longtime adversary. Scott’s reaction to the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School mass shooting is making Democrats wonder if they’re witnessing a broader general-election makeover — one that could make him a far more potent challenger to Sen. Bill Nelson.

“‘That’s something I’m sure the Nelson people are worried about,’ said Allison Tant, the former Florida Democratic Party chair and a Nelson fundraiser and ally. ‘Rick Scott is trying to erase the memories of everybody on the stances he’s taken on guns for the past eight years. But it took not just one mass shootings in Florida, but two to get him to act. And he’s not doing much,’ Tant said, referencing the Pulse nightclub slaughter that happened during Scott’s term in 2016.” http://politi.co/2CmqTKc

-- “GOP showdown: McDaniel expected to challenge Wicker for Senate,” by Alex Isenstadt: “Mississippi Republican Chris McDaniel is expected to announce later this week that he will wage a 2018 primary challenge against GOP Sen. Roger Wicker, according to two people briefed on his plans. McDaniel, a conservative state senator who waged an unsuccessful 2014 primary bid against longtime GOP Sen. Thad Cochran, has scheduled a rally on Wednesday afternoon in Ellisville, Miss.

“McDaniel is slated to hold a Facebook Live event on Monday evening to encourage people to attend the rally. He has recruited two senior Republican strategists, Rick Tyler and John Yob, to assist him. Tyler most recently worked as a spokesman for Texas Sen. Ted Cruz’s 2016 presidential campaign, and was a staffer on former House Speaker Newt Gingrich’s 2012 White House bid. Yob was a top aide on Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul’s 2016 presidential campaign.” http://politi.co/2ovDsu0

IN THE HOUSE: “Republicans fret sexting scandal could cost them easy House seat,” by Elena Schneider: “Republicans are fretting that a front-runner for an Arizona congressional seat — a married minister involved in a sexting scandal — will pull a Roy Moore and hand the seat to Democrats if he wins Tuesday’s special-election primary. The seat vacated by former GOP Rep. Trent Franks — who resigned last December over his own sex scandal — should be an easy hold for Republicans.

“But a bombshell report of nude photos and text messages exchanged between the candidate, former state Sen. Steve Montenegro, and a legislative staffer — published just a week before the election — has left GOP operatives worried that ‘it could be Alabama all over again,’ said Shiree Verdone, who ran Arizona Sen. John McCain's 2010 Senate race.” http://politi.co/2FyTvi7

-- “Republicans flock to take out scandal-plagued Duncan Hunter,” by Rachael Bade: http://politi.co/2t06W81

FIRST IN PLAYBOOK -- Penguin Random House is moving up the sale date of Ret. Gen. Michael Hayden’s next book to May 1. It’s titled “The Assault on Intelligence: American National Security in an Age of Lies” – excerpts from the intro: “There is no effort here to build a case for or against collusion. But whatever emerges from Robert Mueller’s investigation, it should not obscure the bigger story, which is still not adequately understood, and which is in a way this book’s climactic case study, namely that Russia has been actively seeking to damage the fabric of American democracy and that the Trump Administration’s glandular aversion to even looking at this squarely, much less mounting a concerted response to it, is an appalling national security lapse.

“Indeed, there is clear evidence of what I would call convergence, the convergence of a mutually reinforcing swirl of Presidential tweets and statements, Russian influenced social media, alt right websites and talk radio, Russian ‘white’ press like RT and even mainstream U.S. media like Fox News—all of whom do things for their own purposes, but all of which fits nicely with Russian purposes to sharpen and sustain divisions here.” The cover http://bit.ly/2F9569C$14.99 on Amazon http://amzn.to/2ES5wlw

MEDIAWATCH -- “Comcast Makes $30.9 Billion Offer for Sky, Challenging Fox,” by WSJ’s Ben Dummett and Stu Woo: “Comcast Corp. on Tuesday made a tentative $30.9 billion offer for Sky PLC, topping a rival bid from 21st Century Fox Inc. to consolidate ownership of the U.K. broadcaster and moving to peel away one of the most attractive overseas assets that Walt Disney Co. has agreed to buy from Fox. …

“The move comes after Disney agreed last year to buy a big chunk of assets from Fox, including its stake in Sky, for more than $52 billion. Sky was seen as a particularly attractive asset in the package—a way Disney could grow its overseas footprint. Sky declined to comment and representatives of Fox and Disney couldn’t immediately be reached for comment early Tuesday.” http://on.wsj.com/2CJu0HT

-- ANNIE YU, former audience engagement editor for the L.A. Times, is joining POLITICO as director of engagement. Carrie Budoff Brown emails the staff: “In this new role, which is part of our ongoing effort to reach new readers and build stronger and deeper relationships with our unique audience, Annie will oversee social media and work closely with editors across the newsroom to give our journalism maximum impact. She will also develop distribution strategies and drive off-platform storytelling, helping us reach our readers wherever they are.”

Playbookers

SPOTTED: Justice Anthony Kennedy last night at the Shakespeare Theatre Company presiding over the mock trial “the Trial of Hamlet”. Abbe Lowell was one of the defense lawyers. The prosecutors were U.S. Attorney for D.C. Jessie Liu and Judge James Boasberg. D.C. Delegate Eleanor Holmes Norton, Thurgood Marshall Jr., Emily Lenzner, Alexandra Petri, and Stephen Ryan were among the jurors. “The jury voted 9-3 that Hamlet was responsible at the time of Polonius’ death,” per a tipster.

BIRTHDAY OF THE DAY: Gary Knell, president and CEO at National Geographic Society. A trend he thinks deserves more attention: “Wildlife trafficking. 100 elephants a day are being slaughtered for ivory. There were 500,000 lions in the wild when I was born. Today, there are 50,000. Do we really want a world without wildlife? It’s all human caused and preventable if we would just pay attention.” Read his Playbook Plus Q&A: http://politi.co/2EX2bO7

BIRTHDAYS: Chelsea Clinton is 38 ... Massachusetts State Sen. Eric Lesser, an Obama alum (hat tip: Herbie Ziskend) ... Robbie Aiken, VP of federal affairs at Pinnacle West ... ABC7 alums Maureen Bunyan and Greta Kreuz … Sasha Johnson, United’s managing director of regulatory and policy and an FAA alum ... Genevieve Ryan is 29. “Her fiancé, Chris Bellaire, just completed his duty as a Marine Corps officer [on Monday] and flew to NY to be with her” (h/t Dad, Fred) ... Ralph Nader is 84 ... Sarah Clements … Politico’s Mike Irwin and Kelsey Wessels ... Joseph Green ... Rebecca Sinderbrand, NBC News senior Washington editor and a Politico alum (h/t Olivia Petersen) ... Greg Lubar, international director for brokerage at JLL ... Greg Speed, executive director at America Votes (hat tips: Jon Haber) ... Nils Bruzelius ... Bush alum Sara McIntosh ... Vincent Polito, principal at mdg ... HFA alum Kathy Gasperine ... Brian Malte … Kelly Olsen ... Julie Merz ... Barb Prigge ... David Baumann ... Kate DePriest, assistant counsel to the IG at the SBA (h/t Adam Kaplan) ... Nick Minock, Michigan political reporter for Sinclair Broadcasting (h/t Mitchell Rivard) ... former Delaware GOP executive director John Fluharty ... Matt Herman ...

... David Merritt, VP for public affairs and strategic initiatives for AHIP (h/t Kristine Grow) ... investigative journalist and author Dan Moldea is 68 (h/t Nadia Szold) ... Sen. Maggie Hassan (D-N.H.) is 6-0 ... Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-Ill.) is 4-0 ... Rep. Luke Messer (R-Ind.) is 49 ... Jill Chappell ... Tim Morris is 4-0 ... Adam Elkington ... Anne Kimbell ... Mary Walsh ... Blanquita Cullum ... Adrienne Biggert Morrell ... Maria Koklanaris Bonaquist ... Ross Fitzgerald ... Alana Berkowitz ... Eddie W. Reeves is 56 ... Jim Norman Javinsky is 48 ... David Hercilla ... Dan Hull ... Craig Kennedy, former president and CEO of the German Marshall Fund of the United States ... Boehner alum Trevor Kolego, now SVP at the Smith-Free Group ... Mark Blumenthal ... Vivian Todini ... Justin Thiltgen.

****** A message from the Coalition for Affordable Prescription Drugs: Medicare Part D is working for seniors. An important part of the program’s success comes from preferred pharmacy networks that promote quality and lower drug prices. Preferred pharmacy plans keep premiums low and are the most popular choice for seniors enrolled in Part D. But now, CMS is considering changes that would prevent seniors from choosing plans with preferred pharmacy networks. Tell CMS to stop proposed changes to Medicare Part D that would disrupt preferred pharmacy networks and hurt millions of seniors. Learn more. ******

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Title: 🔫 Gunz 4 Jeezus
Post by: RE on March 01, 2018, 04:39:33 AM
I feel so much safer now, don't you?

RE

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/02/28/pennsylvania-church-ceremony-guns/383815002/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/02/28/pennsylvania-church-ceremony-guns/383815002/)

Worshippers clutching AR-15 rifles hold commitment ceremony
Michael Rubinkam, The Associated Press Published 9:25 p.m. ET Feb. 28, 2018 | Updated 9:32 p.m. ET Feb. 28, 2018

(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/54984c7d380a37cf56702a0588dc418389715709/c=85-0-2745-2000&r=x408&c=540x405/local/-/media/2018/02/28/USATODAY/USATODAY/636554495325027441-GTY-925473724-98026555.JPG)

Worshippers clutching AR-15 rifles drank holy wine and exchanged wedding vows in a commitment ceremony at a Pennsylvania church. Time
AFP AFP_11I09Z A REL USA

(Photo: DON EMMERT, AFP/Getty Images)
CONNECTTWEETLINKEDINCOMMENTEMAILMORE

NEWFOUNDLAND, Pa. — Crown-wearing worshippers clutching AR-15 rifles drank holy wine and exchanged or renewed wedding vows in a commitment ceremony at a Pennsylvania church on Wednesday, prompting a nearby school to cancel classes.

With state police and a smattering of protesters standing watch outside the church, brides clad in white and grooms in dark suits brought dozens of unloaded AR-15s into World Peace and Unification Sanctuary for a religious event that doubled as an advertisement for the Second Amendment.

The church, which has a worldwide following, believes the AR-15 symbolizes the “rod of iron” in the book of Revelation, and encouraged couples to bring the weapons. An AR-15 was used in the Florida high school massacre on Feb. 14.

The Rev. Sean Moon, who leads the church, prayed for “a kingdom of peace police and peace militia where the citizens, through the right given to them by almighty God to keep and bear arms, will be able to protect one another and protect human flourishing.”

Moon is the son of the late Rev. Sun Myung Moon, a self-proclaimed messiah who founded the Unification Church, which critics regard as a cult. The younger Moon’s congregation is a breakaway faction of the Unification Church, which had distanced itself from Wednesday’s event.
A woman holds an AR-15 rifle during a ceremony at the

A woman holds an AR-15 rifle during a ceremony at the World Peace and Unification Sanctuary on February 28, 2018 in Newfoundland, Pennsylvania (Photo: Spencer Platt, Getty Images)

More: Why the AR-15 keeps appearing at America's deadliest mass shootings

More: Trump says take guns first and worry about 'due process second' in White House gun meeting

More: Walmart bans gun sales to anyone under 21 after Parkland, Florida school shooting

An attendant checked each weapon at the door to make sure it was unloaded and secured with a zip tie, and the elaborate commitment ceremony went off without a hitch. Some worshippers wore crowns made out of bullets.

Tim Elder, Unification Sanctuary’s director of world missions, said the ceremony was meant to be a blessing of couples, not “inanimate objects,” calling the AR-15 a “religious accoutrement.”

But Wednesday’s event, coming on the heels of the high school massacre in Parkland, Florida, which killed 17, rubbed emotions raw.

“It’s scaring people in the community,” one protester told a church member. “Are you aware of that?”
A man holds an unloaded weapon during services at the

A man holds an unloaded weapon during services at the World Peace and Unification Sanctuary, Wednesday Feb. 28, 2018 in Newfoundland, Pa. (Photo: Jacqueline Larma, AP)

The ceremony prompted Wallenpaupack Area School District to move students at an elementary school down the street to other campuses.

Lisa Desiena, from Scranton, protested outside the church with a sign that called the group an “armed religious cult.”

She said she owns a gun, but “I don’t need a freaking assault weapon to defend myself. Only thing they’re good for is killing. Period. That’s all that weapon is good for, mass killing. And you want to bless it? Shame on you.”

But Sreymom Ouk, 41, who attended the ceremony with her husband, Sort Ouk, and came with their AR-15, said the weapon is useful for defending her family against “sickos and evil psychopaths.”

“People have the right to bear arms, and in God’s kingdom, you have to protect that,” she said. “You have to protect against evil.”
Couples hold AR-15 rifles and other guns during a ceremony

Couples hold AR-15 rifles and other guns during a ceremony at the World Peace and Unification Sanctuary on February 28, 2018 in Newfoundland, Pennsylvania. (Photo: Spencer Platt, Getty Images)
Title: 🔫 Befuddled By Trump, Senate Will Not Vote On Gun Measures Next Week
Post by: RE on March 01, 2018, 02:49:51 PM
Nobody fucks with the NRA.  Not even Trumpofsky.

RE

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/01/589886655/trumps-tv-policy-musings-create-chaos-for-lawmakers (https://www.npr.org/2018/03/01/589886655/trumps-tv-policy-musings-create-chaos-for-lawmakers)

Befuddled By Trump, Senate Will Not Vote On Gun Measures Next Week

(https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2018/03/01/gettyimages-925588926-05ecab0cdbac4c9b4411b4c0b212d74958b31c9b-s800-c85.jpg)

3:58

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March 1, 20181:15 PM ET
Heard on All Things Considered

Kelsey Snell
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Susan Davis

President Trump speaks, watched by Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, during a bipartisan meeting with members of Congress on school and community safety at the White House on Wednesday.
Mandel Ngan/AFP/Getty Images

Updated at 5:15 p.m. ET

Plans for a speedy Senate vote on gun legislation crumbled Thursday as Senate leaders announced plans to move on to long-planned banking legislation, while congressional Republicans struggle to make sense of President Trump's wishes on guns.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell told reporters Thursday that the Senate will move on to the banking bill after voting on several nominations this week. McConnell said he hopes to vote on changes to the background check system for most gun purchases but did not provide a timeline or any further details.

"We'd love to do that at some point," McConnell said. "I'm hoping there is a way forward."

The lack of commitment is the surest sign yet that Congress does not plan to quickly address gun access, despite pressure from the White House and survivors of last month's deadly shooting at a Florida high school.

There is no plan for any action on gun legislation ahead of the two-week Easter recess at the end of March. The Senate will next take up Idaho GOP Sen. Mike Crapo's bipartisan legislation to ease bank regulations. The Senate also plans to vote this month on Ohio GOP Sen. Rob Portman's legislation to combat sex trafficking, and Congress must pass a sweeping spending package by March 23.

There is no room in the agenda for guns, unless senators reach agreement on legislation that could move through the Senate through an expedited process known as unanimous consent. Sen. John Kennedy, R-La., who is opposed to any new restrictions on gun rights, said he did not believe that kind of consensus was within reach. "Look, we've got a lot of disagreement on the Republican side, and I would be surprised if something moved anytime soon," he said.

Widespread confusion

The sharp departure was the result of widespread confusion on Capitol Hill over guns. Republicans spent the day Thursday struggling to respond to a set of vague instructions Trump laid out during a televised meeting at the White House.
Trump Angers Conservatives Over Guns While Negotiating With Lawmakers On TV
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Trump Angers Conservatives Over Guns While Negotiating With Lawmakers On TV

That meeting followed a familiar pattern for many lawmakers who are trying to write and pass legislation that can meet Trump's shifting approval. Even many Republicans responded to the White House meeting with confusion and frustration over the lack of clear guidance from the president.

Over the course of the hourlong broadcast Trump seemed to embrace plans to expand background checks and increase age limits for purchasing long gun rifles, positions generally anathema to congressional Republicans. He also suggested pre-emptively taking guns away from potentially dangerous people, a policy that might draw significant legal challenges.
Trump Backs Arming Teachers During Emotional White House Listening Session
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Trump Backs Arming Teachers During Emotional White House Listening Session

"I don't know, you saw it right? It was wild," said South Dakota Sen. John Thune, a Republican. "I think the president is going to have to narrow his list of what he'd like to see addressed and figure out what's realistic."

The disconnect between President Trump and congressional Republicans on core philosophical issues on display this week, coupled with the lingering partisan anger between the two parties following the failed immigration talks, are quickly lowering already dim expectations that 2018 will result in much legislative output.

The only must-pass measure on the agenda is the spending bill still being drafted to finalize the appropriations process for the year that, once passed, will free up lawmakers to focus their efforts on what is quickly overtaking Capitol Hill: the battle for control of Congress in the midterm elections.

Republicans say they all agree that something needs to be done to curb gun violence, but there is little, if any, consensus on the best way to do that while still maintaining gun rights. Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Ala., told reporters Thursday that he is not inclined to support any of the many gun-related bills that have been floated in recent days.

"I'm not inclined to do anything right now except to see what comes up," Shelby said. "We all are interested in our children being safe in schools; we're all interested in the communities being safe. It's how do we get there?"

Trump often acknowledges that it's hard to pass any legislation in Congress, let alone laws to curb gun rights. But many lawmakers, including some Republicans, say Trump's own statements make the already difficult task of passing gun legislation even harder.
A Brief History Of The AR-15
National Security
A Brief History Of The AR-15

The meeting concluded with Trump asking lawmakers to go back and talk about the extensive list of proposals floated at the meeting, and without a White House endorsement of any specific plan.

'Element of unpredictability'

Pennsylvania Republican Rep. Ryan Costello told NPR's Morning Edition that he worries that kind of broad directive makes it harder for Congress to focus its attention on specific legislation that could pass and eventually become law.

"There's still an element of unpredictability on what the White House is willing to lean on from a gun safety reform measure," Costello said. "There was a bit of contradiction in what he said."
After Florida Shooting, Trump Calls For New Regulations On Bump Stocks
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After Florida Shooting, Trump Calls For New Regulations On Bump Stocks

Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, one of the leading lawmakers working on a proposal to update the criminal background check system, shared similar concerns Wednesday after the meeting adjourned. Cornyn told reporters that it is his experience that passing these measures is harder than it sounds.

"I think everybody is trying to absorb what we just heard," Cornyn said. "He's a unique president and I think if he was focused on a specific piece of legislation rather than a grab bag of ideas then I think he could have a lot of influence, but right now we don't have that."

Shock at tariff announcement

Republicans still reeling from the fallout of Trump's conflicting comments during Wednesday's gun meeting were again taken by surprise Thursday with the White House announcement of impending tariffs of 25% on steel and 10% on aluminum imports. The decision upends long-standing GOP orthodoxy on trade policy and provoked fears among senators of a trade war with China and other traditional allies that threaten to harm the U.S. economy more than tariffs promise to help.

"Every time you do this you get a retaliation, and agriculture is the number one target," said Senate Agriculture Committee Chairman Pat Roberts, R-Kansas, "I think this is terribly unproductive for the ag economy." China is already signaling it could retaliate against U.S. sorghum exports. Kansas is the country's top sorghum producer.

Sen. Ron Johnson, R-Wisc., said the president's decision is counter to the view of the Senate GOP Conference, which has in prior meetings urged Trump from imposing these tariffs. "I think every Republican is pretty well on the same side of the page from that standpoint, resisting what (Trump) and his trade advisors were talking about," Johnson said, "We have been talking to the administration almost in a unanimous fashion, warning against protectionist measures, warning against these types of tariffs."
Title: Re: 🔫 Gunz 4 Jeezus
Post by: luciddreams on March 01, 2018, 02:52:55 PM
I feel so much safer now, don't you?

RE

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/02/28/pennsylvania-church-ceremony-guns/383815002/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/02/28/pennsylvania-church-ceremony-guns/383815002/)

Worshippers clutching AR-15 rifles hold commitment ceremony
Michael Rubinkam, The Associated Press Published 9:25 p.m. ET Feb. 28, 2018 | Updated 9:32 p.m. ET Feb. 28, 2018

(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/54984c7d380a37cf56702a0588dc418389715709/c=85-0-2745-2000&r=x408&c=540x405/local/-/media/2018/02/28/USATODAY/USATODAY/636554495325027441-GTY-925473724-98026555.JPG)

Worshippers clutching AR-15 rifles drank holy wine and exchanged wedding vows in a commitment ceremony at a Pennsylvania church. Time
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(Photo: DON EMMERT, AFP/Getty Images)
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NEWFOUNDLAND, Pa. — Crown-wearing worshippers clutching AR-15 rifles drank holy wine and exchanged or renewed wedding vows in a commitment ceremony at a Pennsylvania church on Wednesday, prompting a nearby school to cancel classes.

With state police and a smattering of protesters standing watch outside the church, brides clad in white and grooms in dark suits brought dozens of unloaded AR-15s into World Peace and Unification Sanctuary for a religious event that doubled as an advertisement for the Second Amendment.

The church, which has a worldwide following, believes the AR-15 symbolizes the “rod of iron” in the book of Revelation, and encouraged couples to bring the weapons. An AR-15 was used in the Florida high school massacre on Feb. 14.

The Rev. Sean Moon, who leads the church, prayed for “a kingdom of peace police and peace militia where the citizens, through the right given to them by almighty God to keep and bear arms, will be able to protect one another and protect human flourishing.”

Moon is the son of the late Rev. Sun Myung Moon, a self-proclaimed messiah who founded the Unification Church, which critics regard as a cult. The younger Moon’s congregation is a breakaway faction of the Unification Church, which had distanced itself from Wednesday’s event.
A woman holds an AR-15 rifle during a ceremony at the

A woman holds an AR-15 rifle during a ceremony at the World Peace and Unification Sanctuary on February 28, 2018 in Newfoundland, Pennsylvania (Photo: Spencer Platt, Getty Images)

More: Why the AR-15 keeps appearing at America's deadliest mass shootings

More: Trump says take guns first and worry about 'due process second' in White House gun meeting

More: Walmart bans gun sales to anyone under 21 after Parkland, Florida school shooting

An attendant checked each weapon at the door to make sure it was unloaded and secured with a zip tie, and the elaborate commitment ceremony went off without a hitch. Some worshippers wore crowns made out of bullets.

Tim Elder, Unification Sanctuary’s director of world missions, said the ceremony was meant to be a blessing of couples, not “inanimate objects,” calling the AR-15 a “religious accoutrement.”

But Wednesday’s event, coming on the heels of the high school massacre in Parkland, Florida, which killed 17, rubbed emotions raw.

“It’s scaring people in the community,” one protester told a church member. “Are you aware of that?”
A man holds an unloaded weapon during services at the

A man holds an unloaded weapon during services at the World Peace and Unification Sanctuary, Wednesday Feb. 28, 2018 in Newfoundland, Pa. (Photo: Jacqueline Larma, AP)

The ceremony prompted Wallenpaupack Area School District to move students at an elementary school down the street to other campuses.

Lisa Desiena, from Scranton, protested outside the church with a sign that called the group an “armed religious cult.”

She said she owns a gun, but “I don’t need a freaking assault weapon to defend myself. Only thing they’re good for is killing. Period. That’s all that weapon is good for, mass killing. And you want to bless it? Shame on you.”

But Sreymom Ouk, 41, who attended the ceremony with her husband, Sort Ouk, and came with their AR-15, said the weapon is useful for defending her family against “sickos and evil psychopaths.”

“People have the right to bear arms, and in God’s kingdom, you have to protect that,” she said. “You have to protect against evil.”
Couples hold AR-15 rifles and other guns during a ceremony

Couples hold AR-15 rifles and other guns during a ceremony at the World Peace and Unification Sanctuary on February 28, 2018 in Newfoundland, Pennsylvania. (Photo: Spencer Platt, Getty Images)

Another case of fact being stranger than fiction.

The stupid shit that people believe and do never ceases to blow my mind. 

One more sign of the all pervading sickness that is diesel powered Murika. 
Title: 🔫 Guns and Liberty - Chris Hedges
Post by: RE on March 02, 2018, 12:31:54 AM
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/guns-and-liberty/ (https://www.truthdig.com/articles/guns-and-liberty/)

Feb 25, 2018
TD originals
Guns and Liberty

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A White House protest held by Teens for Gun Reform last week in the wake of the Florida school massacre. (Lorie Shaull / Flickr)

The proliferation of guns in American society is not only profitable for gun manufacturers, it fools the disempowered into fetishizing weapons as a guarantor of political agency. Guns buttress the myth of a rugged individualism that atomizes Americans, disdains organization and obliterates community, compounding powerlessness. Gun ownership in the United States, largely criminalized for poor people of color, is a potent tool of oppression. It does not protect us from tyranny. It is an instrument of tyranny.

“Second Amendment cultists truly believe that guns are political power,” writes Mark Ames, the author of “Going Postal: Rage, Murder, and Rebellion: From Reagan’s Workplaces to Clinton’s Columbine and Beyond.” “[They believe that] guns in fact are the only source of political power. That’s why, despite loving guns, and despite being so right-wing, they betray such a paranoid fear and hatred of armed agents of the government (minus Border Guards, they all tend to love our Border Guards). If you think guns, rather than concentrated wealth, equals political power, then you’d resent government power far more than you’d resent billionaires’ power or corporations’ hyper-concentrated wealth/power, because government will always have more and bigger guns. In fact you’d see pro-gun, anti-government billionaires like the Kochs as your natural political allies in your gun-centric notion of political struggle against the concentrated gun power of government.”

American violence has always been primarily vigilante violence. It is a product of the colonial militias; the U.S. Army, which carried out campaigns of genocide against Native Americans; slave patrols; hired mercenaries and gunslingers; the Pinkerton and Baldwin-Felts detective agencies; gangs of strikebreakers; the Iron and Coal Police; company militias; the American Legion veterans of World War I who attacked union agitators; the White Citizens’ Council; the White League, the Knights of the White Camellia; and the Ku Klux Klan, which controlled some states. These vigilante groups carried out atrocities, mostly against people of color and radicals, within our borders that later characterized our savage subjugation of the Philippines, interventions in Latin America, the wars in Korea and Vietnam and our current debacles in the Middle East. Gen. Jacob H. Smith summed up American attitudes about wholesale violence in the Philippines when he ordered his troops to turn the island of Samar, defended by Filipino insurgents, into “a howling wilderness.”

Mass culture and most historians do not acknowledge the patterns of violence that have played out over and over since the founding of the nation. This historical amnesia blinds us to the endemic violence that defines our culture and is encoded in our national myth. As historian Richard Slotkin writes in “Regeneration Through Violence: The Mythology of the American Frontier 1600-1860,” the first of his three magisterial works on violence in American society, our Jacksonian form of democracy was defined by “the western man-on-the-make, the speculator, and the wildcat banker; [in a time] when racist irrationalism and a falsely conceived economics prolonged and intensified slavery in the teeth of American democratic idealism; and when men like Davy Crockett became national heroes by defining national aspirations in terms of so many bears destroyed, so much land preempted, so many trees hacked down, so many Indians and Mexicans dead in the dust.”
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“The first colonists saw in America an opportunity to regenerate their fortunes, their spirits, and the power of their church and nation,” he writes, “but the means to that regeneration ultimately became the means of violence, and the myth of regeneration through violence became the structuring metaphor of the American experience.”

“A people unaware of its myths is likely to continue living by them, though the world around that people may change and demand changes in their psychology, their ethics and their institutions,” Slotkin writes.

The metaphors we use to describe ourselves to ourselves are rooted in this national myth. We explain our history and our experience and seek our identity in this myth. This myth connects us to the forces that shape and give meaning to our lives. It bridges, as Slotkin writes, “the gap between the world of the mind and the world of affairs, between dream and reality, between impulse or desire and action. It draws on the content of individual and collective memory, structures it, and develops it from imperatives for belief and action.”

The historian Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz in her book “Loaded: A Disarming History of the Second Amendment” also illustrates how the racist, white settler vision of the world continues to color our perception of reality. She writes:

    The populist frontier ideology has served the U.S. ruling class well for its entire history and once again found tremendous resonance in the Vietnam War as another Indian war. A key to John F. Kennedy’s political success was that he revived the “frontier” as a trope of populist imperialism, speaking of the “settling” of the continent and “taming” a different sort of “wilderness.” In Kennedy’s acceptance speech in Los Angeles at the 1960 Democratic Convention, he said: “I stand tonight facing west on what was once the last frontier. From the lands that stretch 3,000 miles behind me, the pioneers of old gave up their safety, their comfort and sometimes their lives to build a new world here in the West. … We stand today on the edge of a new frontier.” The metaphor described Kennedy’s plan for employing political power to make the world the new frontier of the United States. Central to this vision was the Cold War, what Richard Slotkin calls “a heroic engagement in the ‘long twilight struggle’ against communism,” to which the nation was summoned by Kennedy in his inaugural address. Soon after he took office, that struggle took the form of the counterinsurgency program in Vietnam and his creation of the Green Beret Special Forces. “Seven years after Kennedy’s nomination,” Slotkin reminds us, “American troops would be describing Vietnam as ‘Indian Country’ and search-and-destroy missions as a game of ‘Cowboys and Indians’; and Kennedy’s ambassador to Vietnam would justify a massive military escalation by citing the necessity of moving the ‘Indians’ away from the ‘fort’ so that the ‘settlers’ could plant ‘corn.’ ”

The gun culture permits a dispossessed public, sheared of economic and political power, to buy a firearm and revel in feelings of omnipotence. A gun reminds Americans that they are divine agents of purification, anointed by God and Western civilization to remake the world in their own image. Violence in America is not about the defense of liberty or radical change. It is an expression of domination, racism and hate. American vigilantes are the shock troops of capitalism. They butcher the weak on behalf of the strong. “The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer,” the English novelist and essayist D.H. Lawrence wrote. “It has never yet melted.”

There are some 310 million firearms in the United States, including 114 million handguns, 110 million rifles and 86 million shotguns. The number of military-style assault weapons in private hands—including the AR-15 semi-automatic rifles used in the massacres at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla., and at the Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn.—is estimated at 1.5 million. The United States has the highest rate of gun ownership in the world, an average of 90 firearms per 100 people.

“Total gun deaths in the United States average around 37,000 a year, with two-thirds of those deaths being suicides, leaving approximately 12,000 homicides, a thousand of those at the hands of the police,” writes Dunbar-Ortiz. “Mass shootings—ones that leave four or more people wounded or dead—now occur in the United States, on average, at the pace of one or more per day. Disturbing as that fact is, mass shootings currently account for only 2 percent of gun killings annually. The number of gun deaths—37,000—is roughly equal to death-by-vehicle incidents in the United States per year.”

If the ruling elites feared an armed uprising, a draconian form of gun control would instantly be law. But the engine of gun ownership is not the fear of government. It is the fear by white people of the black and brown underclass, an underclass many whites are convinced will threaten them as society breaks down. Guns, largely in the hands of whites, have rarely been deployed against the state. In this, the United States is an exception. It has a heavily armed population and yet maintains political stability. The few armed rebellions—the 1786 and 1787 Shays’ Rebellion, the 1921 armed uprising by 10,000 coal miners at Blair Mountain in West Virginia—were swiftly and brutally put down by militias and armed vigilantes hired by capitalists. These uprisings were about specific grievances, not systemic change. Revolution is foreign to our intellectual tradition.

As jobs and manufacturing are shipped overseas, communities crumble, despair grips much of the country and chronic poverty plagues American families, the gun seems to be the last tangible relic of a free and mythic America. It offers the illusion of power, protection and freedom. This is why the powerless will not give it up.

“In the heartland, these are people who feel they’ve been the victims of sustained economic violence at the hands of tyrannical governments of both parties,” writer and editor Daniel Hayes wrote in The New York Times in 2016. “In 2008, Barack Obama’s notorious misstep got one thing right: Rural people will ‘cling’ to guns. Not because they are sad or misguided, but because it is the last right they feel they still have: a liberty at least, in place of opportunity.”

“Outsourcing and guns: These are the twin issues animating Trump voters in rural Kentucky,” he wrote. “The two are linked and feed off each other; the only difference between them is that white rural voters see outsourcing as a losing battle, whereas protecting and expanding Second Amendment rights is the only policy they’ve been able to get politicians to move on. For that reason alone, it is totemic.”

The Second Amendment, as Dunbar-Ortiz makes clear in her book, was never about protecting individual freedom. It was about codifying white vigilante violence into law.

“The elephant in the room in these debates has long been what the armed militias of the Second Amendment were to be used for,” Dunbar-Ortiz writes. “The kind of militias and gun rights of the Second Amendment had long existed in the colonies and were expected to continue fulfilling two primary roles in the United States: destroying Native communities in the armed march to possess the continent, and brutally subjugating the enslaved African population. …”

Attacks on the gun culture and the gun violence that plagues the nation are seen by many gun owners as an attack on their national identity. The more powerful the weapon, the more powerful the gun owner feels. There are those among the marginalized and enraged who are tempted, especially because of easy access to assault-style weapons, to use their guns in mass killings to cleanse the world. The lone killer, almost always a white male, is celebrated by Hollywood and in our national myth and “frontier psychology.” This peculiar American veneration of violence, Slotkin writes, “reaches out of the past to cripple, incapacitate, or strike down the living.”
Title: Re: 🔫 Gunz 4 Jeezus
Post by: Surly1 on March 02, 2018, 02:37:49 AM

I feel so much safer now, don't you?

RE

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/02/28/pennsylvania-church-ceremony-guns/383815002/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/02/28/pennsylvania-church-ceremony-guns/383815002/)

Worshippers clutching AR-15 rifles hold commitment ceremony
(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/54984c7d380a37cf56702a0588dc418389715709/c=85-0-2745-2000&r=x408&c=540x405/local/-/media/2018/02/28/USATODAY/USATODAY/636554495325027441-GTY-925473724-98026555.JPG)

Worshippers clutching AR-15 rifles drank holy wine and exchanged wedding vows in a commitment ceremony at a Pennsylvania church. Time
AFP AFP_11I09Z A REL USA


Most of us sinners have broken or bent a number of the Ten Commandments.
This is the first time in my life I've seen people break the First.
Title: ...and for today's Campus Shooter...
Post by: RE on March 02, 2018, 10:46:18 AM
Only 2 so far.  But he is still "at large".

RE

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-michigan-shooting/gunman-kills-two-in-domestic-dispute-in-michigan-university-dorm-idUSKCN1GE23F (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-michigan-shooting/gunman-kills-two-in-domestic-dispute-in-michigan-university-dorm-idUSKCN1GE23F)

U.S.
March 2, 2018 / 5:46 AM / Updated 21 minutes ago
Gunman kills two in domestic dispute in Michigan university dorm
Gina Cherelus, Jonathan Allen

(https://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/9ab4794/2147483647/thumbnail/640x420/quality/85/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.beam.usnews.com%2Fec%2F441addfb66eb59fcd22dafc1ae634a%2Ftag%3Areuters.com%2C2018%3Anewsml_LYNXNPEE211PL%3A12018-03-02T171124Z_1_LYNXNPEE211PL_RTROPTP_3_MICHIGAN-SHOOTING.JPG)

3 Min Read

(Reuters) - At least two people were shot dead in what authorities said was a domestic issue at a dormitory at Central Michigan University on Friday morning and police were searching for the gunman.

The two victims who were not students were found inside the residence hall at the university, located about 125 miles (200 km) northwest of Detroit, according to university Police Lieutenant Larry Klaus. He identified the suspect as 19-year-old James Eric Davis Jr.

“Our campus is safe,” Klaus said at a news conference on Friday.“We’re calling it a family-type domestic issue at this point.” The university said no one was injured by the gunfire.

The incident came about two weeks after 17 students and educators were killed by a 19-year-old gunman with an assault-style rifle at a Florida high school.
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The identities of the two Michigan victims as well as details on whether the suspect was a student and the type of weapon used were not immediately released.

Davis had contact with college police on Thursday night and was taken to a local hospital after an apparent overdose or“bad reaction to drugs,” Klaus told reporters.

The hospital has no record of Davis being a patient, Rachel Blizzard, a spokeswoman, said in an email.
The site of shooting at Central Michigan University is seen, in Mount Pleasant, U.S., March 2, 2018 in this picture obtained from social media. COURTESY of GRANT POLMANTEER /via REUTERS

Parents and others expected on campus on Friday to pick up students for spring break were told to stay away while the suspect was at large.

Davis was considered armed and dangerous and campus police were investigating the incident along with local and state police, according to university officials.

Klaus said Davis was seen wearing a dark hoodie following the shooting. Police found“a number of articles of clothing” as he fled the campus north along railroad tracks, Klaus said.

Police in patrol cars and helicopters searched for the gunman around an area of apartments just north of the campus in the city of Mount Pleasant, according to video posted online by reporters on the scene.

The United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said on Twitter sent special agents to assist.

“The priority right now is the safety of those still on campus and I thank all first responders involved for their swift action,” Michigan Governor Rick Snyder said on Twitter.

Central Michigan University is a four-year, public institution with more than 23,000 students enrolled, according to the college’s website. Access to most of the buildings is limited, and individuals must have identification to enter, according to campus officials.

Reporting by Gina Cherelus and Jonathan Allen in New York; Editing by Scott Malone, Chizu Nomiyama and Jeffrey Benkoe
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 02, 2018, 10:54:48 AM
This is about to be suicide or summary justice by cop, sounds like.

http://www.youtube.com/v/3gV1sxB8TxI&fs=1
Title: 🔫 Gunman takes 3 hostage at Yountville veterans home
Post by: RE on March 09, 2018, 02:47:13 PM
https://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Active-shooter-reported-at-Yountville-veterans-12741622.php (https://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Active-shooter-reported-at-Yountville-veterans-12741622.php)

Gunman takes 3 hostage at Yountville veterans home

By Jenna Lyons, Sophie Haigney and Steve Rubenstein Updated 2:38 pm, Friday, March 9, 2018

(https://s.hdnux.com/photos/72/00/61/15207548/3/920x920.jpg)

Photo: JOSH EDELSON, JOSH EDELSON / SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE
Image 1 of 15
Law enforcement personnel move towards the scene where an active shooter has taken hostages at the Veteran Administration Hospital in Yountville, California on Friday, March 09, 2018.


A gunman exchanged shots with a Napa County sheriff’s deputy Friday before taking three people hostage at the Northern California veterans home in Yountville, officials said.

The gunfire erupted around 10:30 a.m. inside the Veterans Home of California-Yountville, said Napa County sheriff John Robertson. Some witnesses said 20 or more shots had been fired.

“We do know who he is,” Robertson said. “We’ve been trying to contact him by his own cell phone and phones in the (veterans home) dormitory.”

No one has been injured, California Highway Patrol Capt. Chris Childs said. The unidentified gunman was believed to be armed with a rifle and barricaded with the hostages inside a room in one of the buildings.

State Senator Bill Dodd (D-Napa) told NBC Bay Area that the unidentified gunman was a member of Pathways, a program for war veterans suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, or PTSD. Dodd said the governor’s office told him that the hostages were employees who worked with the suspect in the Pathways program.

CHP Sgt. Robert Nacke provides an update on an active shooter and hostage situation at the Yountville Veterans home.
Media: Jenna Lyons, San Francisco Chronicle
Related Stories

    The Latest: Authorities know ID of gunman at veterans home
    Site of Yountville hostage standoff, Pathway Home, treats soldiers with PTSD

Dodd said he had been told that the suspect had been asked to leave the program earlier this week.

According to radio transmissions between officers at the scene and dispatchers, the suspect was described as wearing “a stash of bullets around his neck” and his waist.

The gunman took five hostages to start before releasing two, said Larry Kamer, whose wife, Devereaux Smith, is a development director for Pathways. She was among those present at a staff meeting and going away party when the gunman entered, he said.

The suspect walked in with a rifle but Smith was able to escape before shots rang out, Kamer said.

“She’s obviously quite shaken up,” he said. “She’s inside a lockdown building.”

Hostage negotiators from the Napa sheriff and police department and the FBI have been in contact with the gunman, Childs said. A sheriff’s SWAT team is also on the scene.

What exactly happened during the initial moments of the crisis, when the shots were exchanged between the unidentified suspect and the unidentified deputy, is not immediately known. Robertson said “many shot were fired.”

Highway Patrol officers and sheriff’s deputies secured the perimeter of the sprawling facility and cleared other buildings. About 80 schoolchildren attending a program in a theater some distance from where the gunman was holed up were whisked away in a bus to safety.

Capt. Childs said that a hotline had been established for family members of veterans home residents and employees to check on their safety. That phone number is (707) 948-3331.

Friends and relatives of residents and employees waited anxiously at the entrance to the veterans home property, some distance away from the main buildings. Highway Patrol and Sonoma County sheriff’s vehicles, some with their lights flashing, streamed past the entrance perimeter and toward the buildings.

Fernando Juarez. 36, of Napa, was exchanging text messages with his sister, Hirma Vanessa Flores, a 22-year-old caregiver who works inside. Her texts, according to Juarez, said that she is unharmed and that “all she can hear is yelling.”

“She asked us to take care of her son — our nephew — that’s how scared she is,” Juarez. said. “We’re just trying to stay calm.”

U.S. Senator Kamala Harris said she was “sending all of our prayers and best wishes to first responders and the community because we don’t yet know how the incident is going to turn out.”

Harris said she did “not know what it could take in terms of more tragedies to compel people in Congress to act.”

“There is no lack of good ideas. It’s not like we’re sitting around for the good ideas. What’s lacking is courage,” Harris said.

As of late last year, some 850 people lived at the veterans home. The expansive facility sits across the street from the Napa Valley Museum in Yountville on California Drive and is more than 133 years old.

Residents at the home are sheltering in place while law enforcement agencies coordinate a response, Iljana said. An employee at nearby Vintners Golf Club, who declined to be named, said that the Yountville Fire Department told employees to shelter in place.

Title: Re: 🔫 Gunman takes 3 hostage at Yountville veterans home
Post by: RE on March 09, 2018, 08:13:24 PM
Hostages and shooter now dead.

RE

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/09/us/gunfire-at-california-veterans-home/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/09/us/gunfire-at-california-veterans-home/index.html)
Title: California officer dead, another wounded as standoff continues
Post by: RE on March 10, 2018, 09:12:15 AM
Shooter of the Month Award!  He nailed a Cop🐷!  Worth 5 points on Grand Death Rifle.

(https://cdn3.whatculture.com/images/2012/09/violent-video-games.jpg)

RE

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/10/us/pomona-cops-shot/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/10/us/pomona-cops-shot/index.html)

California officer dead, another wounded as standoff continues

 (CNN)A standoff between police and an armed suspect that resulted in one officer's death and the wounding of another remains underway Saturday morning in Pomona, California, near Los Angeles, more than 12 hours after it began.
The suspect is barricaded inside an apartment home after fatally shooting an officer and wounding a second one, according to the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department.
"It is with a heavy heart that I must report that one officer did not survive," Pomona police Chief Michael Olivieri tweeted early Saturday morning. "The second officer is in stable condition."
Title: 🔫 Trump Backs off Call for Raising Minimum Age to Buy Gun
Post by: RE on March 12, 2018, 12:06:49 AM
The NRA put the Thumbscrews down on Trumpovetsky.  He has about as much backbone as Annelida.

RE

https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2018-03-11/trumps-plan-will-seek-to-harden-schools-against-shootings (https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2018-03-11/trumps-plan-will-seek-to-harden-schools-against-shootings)

Trump Backs off Call for Raising Minimum Age to Buy Gun
Trump's plan to prevent school shootings focuses on gun training for teachers, mental health, backs off raising minimum purchase age for assault weapons.

(https://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/8afe0c7/2147483647/thumbnail/970x647/quality/85/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.beam.usnews.com%2Fc3%2Fd03498c2bde9c835abeaa9921cde46%2Fresizes%2F1500%2Fmedia%3A2a56d034952b49ee9f9f9d331b3ce3f1Trump_90302.jpg)

March 11, 2018, at 9:45 p.m.

Trump Backs off Call for Raising Minimum Age to Buy Gun

The Associated Press

U.S. President Donald Trump speaks at a campaign rally at Atlantic Aviation in Moon Township, Pa., Saturday, March 10, 2018. (AP Photo/Carolyn Kaster) The Associated Press

By JILL COLVIN, Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) — The White House on Sunday pledged to help states pay for firearms training for teachers and reiterated its call to improve the background check system as part of a new plan to prevent school shootings.

But in a move sure to please the gun lobby, the plan does not include a push to increase the minimum age for purchasing assault weapons to 21, which President Donald Trump had repeatedly championed.

Instead, a new federal commission on school safety will examine the age issue, as well as a long list of others topics, as part of a longer-term look at school safety and violence.

The plan forgoes an endorsement of comprehensive background checks for gun purchases, which the president, at times, seemed to embrace.
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In a call with reporters Sunday evening, administration officials described the plan as a fulfillment of Trump's call for action in the wake of the school shooting in Parkland, Florida, last month that left 17 dead.

"Today we are announcing meaningful actions, steps that can be taken right away to help protect students," said Education Secretary Betsy DeVos, who will chair the commission.

DeVos said that "far too often, the focus" after such tragedies "has been only on the most contentious fights, the things that have divided people and sent them into their entrenched corners." She described the plan as "pragmatic."

The plan was immediately panned by gun control advocates, including the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "Americans expecting real leadership to prevent gun violence will be disappointed and troubled by President Trump's dangerous retreat from his promise," said Avery Gardiner, the group's co-president.

Sen. Bob Casey, D-Pa., called the plan "weak on security and an insult to the victims of gun violence." In a statement, he added, "When it comes to keeping our families safe, it's clear that President Trump and Congressional Republicans are all talk and no action."

The plan is less ambitious than the changes Trump advocated in a series of listening sessions in the weeks after the massacre. In televised meetings with lawmakers, survivors of recent school shootings and the families of victims, Trump made a strong case for arming teachers, but also increasing the age for purchasing long guns.

"I mean, so they buy a revolver — a handgun — they buy at the age of 21. And yet, these other weapons that we talk about ... they're allowed to buy them at 18. So how does that make sense?" he told school officials last month. "We're going to work on getting the age up to 21 instead of 18."

White House spokesman Raj Shah had said earlier Sunday in an interview with ABC's "This Week" that "the president has been clear that he does support raising the age to 21" and that that would be a "component" of the announcement.

But Trump has also spoken repeatedly in recent weeks with the heads of the powerful National Rifle Association, which considers increasing the age of purchase to be an assault on the Second Amendment. The NRA on Friday sued Florida over a new gun law signed by Republican Gov. Rick Scott that bans the purchase of firearms by anyone under the age of 21.

Instead, the issue will be one of a list of topics to be studied by the DeVos commission, which will then provide recommendations to the president. Administration officials said they had not set a deadline for the commission's recommendations, but expected they'd made in under a year.

Trump's embrace of another commission appears at odds with comments he made Saturday night mocking their use, at least when it comes to fighting drug addiction.

During the meetings, Trump also advocated arming certain teachers and school staffers, arguing that gun-free schools are "like an invitation for these very sick people" to commit murder.

"If you had a teacher who was adept at firearms, they could end the attack very quickly," he has said.

As part plan, the White House has directed the Justice Department to help states partner with local law enforcement to provide "rigorous firearms training to specifically qualified volunteer school personnel," said Andrew Bremberg, director of the president's Domestic Policy Council. The White House did not immediately say how much money would be made available.

Trump also called on states to pass temporary, court-issued Risk Protection Orders, which allow law enforcement to confiscate guns from individuals who pose risks to themselves and others, and temporarily prevent them from buying firearms. And he called for the reform and expansion of mental health programs, as well as a full audit and review of the FBI tip line. The bureau has been criticized for not following up on warnings about the suspect in the Parkland school shooting.

During the often free-wheeling conversations, Trump also seemed to voice support for "universal" background checks, which would apply to private gun sales and those at gun shows, instead of just from licensed dealers. He also raised eyebrows by suggesting that law enforcement officials should be able to confiscate guns from those they deem a safety risk even before a court has weighed in.

"Take the guns first, go through due process second," Trump said.

Sarah Huckabee Sanders, the White House press secretary, later walked back both suggestions, saying "Universal means something different to a lot of people." She said the president wanted to expedite the court process, not circumvent it.

Instead, the White House reiterated its support for improvements to the National Instant Criminal Background Check through the "Fix NICS" bill, which would penalize federal agencies that don't properly report required records and reward states that comply by providing them with federal grant preferences.

The White House called on Congress to pass a second bill that would create a federal grant program to train students, teachers and school officials how to identify signs of potential violence and intervene early. The Republican-controlled House is expected to vote on the STOP School Violence Act next week.

__

Follow Colvin on Twitter at https://twitter.com/colvinj (https://twitter.com/colvinj)
Title: 💣 Another Day Another Bomber
Post by: RE on March 12, 2018, 08:36:06 AM
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/austin-texas-deadly-package-explosion-home/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/austin-texas-deadly-package-explosion-home/)

Deadly package explosion at Austin, Texas home

(https://cbsnews1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2018/03/12/77d8f185-d5f0-4810-99a1-b7608715e1ee/thumbnail/620x350/30ad280fb55d5df0a9efe369ecbc6273/austin2.png)
The scene of a deadly package explosion in Austin, Texas March 12, 2018

Last Updated Mar 12, 2018 10:49 AM EDT

AUSTIN, Texas -- Police in Austin say a package exploded at a home Monday morning, killing one person and injuring another, reports CBS affiliate KEYE. Austin-Travis County EMS tells the station a teenage male was killed and woman in her 40s was taken to the hospital with potentially life threatening injuries after the explosion in East Austin.

The incident marks the second such explosion this month at a home in Texas' capital city.  Anthony Stephan House, 39, was killed March 2 when a package exploded at his northeast Austin home, KEYE reports.

Authorities are investigating whether the explosions could be linked.  Both occurred in the early-morning hours.

Police are investigating the March 2 incident as a suspicious death. Investigators haven't released information about the device or possible suspects.   

Bomb-sniffing dogs were reportedly at the scene of the explosion Monday morning and investigating nearby houses. There were reports of evacuations of nearby homes.

The FBI is helping Austin police in the investigation. The ATF was also responding to assist.

This is a developing story.
Title: 💣 3 deadly package explosions in Austin appear connected, police say
Post by: RE on March 12, 2018, 02:07:24 PM
Now up to 3 Bombs!   :o

RE

3 deadly package explosions in Austin appear connected, police say

(https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/180312131722-02-austin-explosion-0312-exlarge-169.jpg)

By Tina Burnside, Ralph Ellis and Joe Sterling, CNN

Updated 4:45 PM ET, Mon March 12, 2018
Police: Deadly blasts in Texas connected

(CNN)Three explosions that occurred when people picked up packages outside their residences appear to be connected, Austin, Texas, city Police Chief Brian Manley said Monday at a news conference.

A Monday morning explosion killed a 17-year-old African-American boy and also injured a woman at the house. A second Monday explosion left a 75-year-old woman in critical condition, the chief said. A March 2 blast killed a 39-year-old African-American man.
All the explosions occurred when people who lived at the residences went outside and picked up packages, Manley said. The packages were not delivered by the postal service or delivery services like UPS or FedEx, he said...
Title: 💣 BOOM Goes Austin...AGAIN!
Post by: RE on March 18, 2018, 09:19:28 PM
Where does this one fit on the map Eddie?

RE

http://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/two-explosions-reported-in-southwest-austin/1056692545 (http://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/two-explosions-reported-in-southwest-austin/1056692545)

Two men injured in explosion in southwest Austin
By: Calily Bien

(http://www.kurv.com/710am/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/AUSTIN-BOMBS-HOUSE-BOMBE-AUSTIN-TEXAS-MARCH-218.jpg)

Updated: Mar 18, 2018 10:58 PM CDT


AUSTIN (KXAN) - People living in the "Travis Country" neighborhood in southwest Austin are being told to remain inside their homes after two men were rushed to the hospital Sunday evening after an explosion on Dawn Song Drive.

Austin-Travis County EMS says it originally responded to 4721 Eagle Feather Dr. just after 8:30 p.m. for "unconfirmed reports of six patients on the ground." The neighborhood is off of Southwest Parkway just west of South MoPac Expressway.

However, when they arrived, ATCEMS and Austin police say the only incident was in the 4800 block of Dawn Song Drive, which is one block over. Two men in their 20s were taken to the hospital with serious but non-life threatening injuries.

The Austin Police Department is asking homeowners within a half-mile radius of the intersection of Dawn Song Drive at Republic of Texas Boulevard to stay inside their homes and follow officers' instructions. Republic of Texas Boulevard is blocked between Missions Oaks and Travis Country Boulevard.

During a briefing at 10:30 p.m. Sunday, Police Chief Brian Manley says they're asking people to stay indoors because they're still trying to go through the scene and make sure everything is safe in the area.

"Stay inside your homes until we have a chance to deem this neighborhood safe and that will not be at a minimum until daylight given the darkness and size of the area," says Manley.

Due to the darkness, Manley says crews haven't been able to get a really good look at the blast site to determine what happened.

"But it is obvious it was an explosion and it’s obvious it has caused significant injuries to two people. And it is important right now that anyone in the neighborhood behind us to give us time to work through this."

Crews are currently working to clear a backpack that was found in the area. Manley says the community should expect another update in the morning.

Stan Malachowski was inside his home when he heard the noise, but didn't think anything of it initially.

"It was loud enough to hear inside of our house with our windows and door shut. Again, airplanes go by and cars backfire so we didn’t think much of it," says Malachowski

Malachowski and his family were out of town last week for spring break, but they had been following the bombing news.

"It’s not just an east Austin thing, or north Austin thing, it’s now southwest Austin. This is not good," says Malachowski.

On Sunday afternoon, the Austin Police Department held a news conference pleading for the person responsible for the recent bombings to come forward before anyone else gets injured or killed.

"We want to understand what brought you to this point and we want to listen to you," said Chief Manley.

During the news conference, authorities also increased the reward amount to $115,000 for any information leading to the arrest of the suspect or suspects.

video
FULL VIDEO: APD Chief Brian Manley on...

photo
Explosion reported on Eagle Feather Drive on Sunday, March 18, 2018. (KXAN Photo)
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 18, 2018, 09:43:45 PM
Probably not a bomb. That'd be my guess. But I guess we'll see. Definitely nowhere near the other bombings.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 18, 2018, 09:52:08 PM
I was out watching Bill Murray at the Long Center tonight. Just heard about this one from you. Latest report says 2 twenty-somethings seriously injured. The bombers?
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on March 18, 2018, 09:54:50 PM
Probably not a bomb. That'd be my guess. But I guess we'll see. Definitely nowhere near the other bombings.

Seems unlikely you would have another explosion occur just randomly after 3 before it.

Are the two who were injured the perps?  Maybe.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: K-Dog on March 18, 2018, 11:40:26 PM
I was out watching Bill Murray at the Long Center tonight. Just heard about this one from you. Latest report says 2 twenty-somethings seriously injured. The bombers?

We can hope!
Title: 💣 BOOM Goes Austin...AGAIN!
Post by: RE on March 19, 2018, 03:46:53 AM
Doesn't look like the guys who got injured were the perps.

New ignition system floated by the MSM here, trip wire.

RE

http://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/two-men-injured-in-explosion-in-southwest-austin/1056692545 (http://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/two-men-injured-in-explosion-in-southwest-austin/1056692545)

Fourth Austin bombing possibly triggered by trip wire, police chief says
By: KXAN Staff

(https://media.kxan.com/nxs-kxantv-media-us-east-1/photo/2018/03/18/FULL_VIDEO__APD_Chief_Brian_Manley_on_ex_1_37638242_ver1.0_640_360.jpg)

Updated: Mar 19, 2018 05:03 AM CDT

Austin bombings coverage

    Austin hardware stores cooperating in...
    Three package bombs in two weeks are...
    Sean Philips called 911 on March 2

AUSTIN (KXAN) - Hours after what is believed to be the fourth bombing in Austin this month, Chief of Police Brian Manley said it is "very possible" the device in Sunday night's explosion was triggered by a trip wire.

Two men in their 20s, who were either riding or pushing their bicycles, were injured when the bomb exploded in the "Travis Country East" subdivision in southwest Austin. Both men are in good condition at the hospital, according to a spokesperson for St. David's South Austin Medical Center.

The Austin Police Department is asking homeowners within a half-mile radius of the intersection of Dawn Song Drive at Republic of Texas Boulevard to stay inside their homes until 10 a.m. Monday and follow officers' instructions. Republic of Texas Boulevard is blocked between Missions Oaks and Travis Country Boulevard.

Chief Manley said investigators are working on the belief that Sunday night's explosion is connected to the previous three. He noted the FBI, ATF and his department's investigators at the scene will learn more when the sun comes up and they can completely process evidence.

While the chief said he could not confirm the trip wire aspect immediately, he did say the bombs have different kinds of projectiles within them.

Sunday night's bombing took place just after 8:30 p.m. Austin-Travis County EMS says it originally responded to the 4700 block of Eagle Feather Dr., located off of Southwest Parkway and west of South MoPac Expressway. However, when they arrived, ATCEMS and Austin police said the explosion was actually in the 4800 block of Dawn Song Drive, which is one block away.

    'Extreme alert' goes to large swath of Austin after fourth explosion

The explosion Sunday evening is the fourth such incident since March 2, when 39-year-old Anthony Stephan House was killed by a package bomb. A second and third bombing during the morning hours of March 12 ended in another person being killed and another two injured.

The first bombing incident was in northeast Austin, the second in east Austin and the third in southeast Austin. Chief Manley said in a follow-up press conference at 1:45 a.m. Monday that the possibility the bomb was triggered by a trip wire and the fact that the explosive device was left next to the road instead of on a front porch like the previous three cases necessitated a new warning to the public:

    "We now need the community to have an extra level of vigilance and pay attention to any suspicious device, whether it be a package, a bag, a backpack, anything that looks out of place. And do not approach it. Again do not approach items like that, but instead call 911 to report it so we can go out and make sure it’s safe."

Austin ISD said in a Facebook post that its school buses will be unable to go into the neighborhood Monday Any tardies or absences due to the situation will be excused, the district said. At least two nearby schools -- Regents High School and St. Andrews's Episcopal School -- are on two-hour delays. Regents High School said the delay will allow it to perform a security sweep.

Stan Malachowski was inside his home when he heard the noise, but didn't think anything of it initially.

"It was loud enough to hear inside of our house with our windows and door shut. Again, airplanes go by and cars backfire so we didn’t think much of it," says Malachowski.

    Interactive Map: Austin explosions

Malachowski and his family were out of town last week for spring break, but they had been following the bombing news.

"It’s not just an east Austin thing, or north Austin thing, it’s now southwest Austin. This is not good," says Malachowski.

Sunday night's bombing came less than 12 hours after the Austin Police Department held a news conference pleading for the person responsible for the recent bombings to come forward before anyone else was injured or killed.

"We want to understand what brought you to this point and we want to listen to you," said Chief Manley.

During the news conference, authorities also increased the reward amount to $115,000 for any information leading to the arrest of the suspect or suspects.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 19, 2018, 04:18:43 AM
It does seem to lend credence  to the idea that the victims are random, and not targeted. This subdivision is way out SW, not that far from my house, as the crow flies, but on the south side of Barton Creek off the South Mopac freeway, which is far from East Austin. It's a mid-level suburban neighborhood, all middle class homes. Lots of trees. Pretty neighborhood.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 19, 2018, 10:33:29 AM
Authorities say the latest bomb to go off in the Texas capital of Austin was anchored to a metal yard sign near a hiking trail and equipped with a fishing line-thin tripwire.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/latest-police-tripwire-caused-latest-austin-blast-53848913 (http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/latest-police-tripwire-caused-latest-austin-blast-53848913)


I'm beginning to think it's possible this might be a real terrorist, just one who isn't sending out any kind of message that would let police and the public get a handle on his motives. This last one seems similar to a roadside IED.It was definitely set up to explode on any random passer-by.
Title: 💣 Profiling the Mad Bomber of Austin
Post by: RE on March 20, 2018, 12:15:46 AM
https://www.mystatesman.com/news/crime--law/austin-bombings-latest-explosion-has-experts-tweaking-bomber-profile/EqKaJEY9odBb82MkqncgqI/ (https://www.mystatesman.com/news/crime--law/austin-bombings-latest-explosion-has-experts-tweaking-bomber-profile/EqKaJEY9odBb82MkqncgqI/)

Austin bombings: Latest explosion has experts tweaking bomber profile
metro-state

By Eric Dexheimer and Mark Wilson - American-Statesman Staff
Jay Janner

(https://www.mystatesman.com/rf/image_medium/Pub/p9/MyStatesman/2018/03/20/Images/newsEngin.21544261_jwj-Bomb-0698.jpg)
Austin Mayor Steve Adler talks to reporters in the Travis Country neighborhood on Monday after a bomb explosion seriously injured two men. JAY JANNER / AMERICAN-STATESMAN

Posted: 7:35 p.m. Monday, March 19, 2018

Highlights

Experts said Sunday’s bomb attack slightly alters their profile of the serial bomber.

The bomb was similar enough in construction to the previous three, interim Police Chief Brian Manley said.

The bomb appears to have used a trip wire, suggesting the bomber has a higher level of skill, officials said.

The use of such a method might suggest a new element of randomness, officials said.

Law enforcement and others seeking clues into the mind of what now appears to be a serial bomber say the latest explosive incident on Sunday night, the city’s fourth over 17 days, provided more trail crumbs than definitive signposts pointing toward a potential suspect.

Austin interim Police Chief Brian Manley has said preliminary indications are that the newest bomb is similar enough in construction to be connected to the previous three. That doesn’t necessarily mean all were manufactured and planted by the same person.

But if that does turn out to be the case, experts said, the latest attack would slightly alter their profile of the serial bomber’s methods and motive.

Police on Monday said it appears as though a trip wire was used to trigger the latest blast in Southwest Austin, revealing two new important pieces of information about the bomber.

PREVIOUS COVERAGE: For investigators, a race to decode hidden message in bombings

The first is that the new form of detonation indicates the person making the explosive has a higher level of skill or sophistication, said Fred Milanowski, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives’ special agent in charge of the Houston field division.

The earlier bombs, which were hidden in packages, appear to have been detonated by movement devices, which would complete a circuit when the package was lifted or tilted, experts said. The latest incident means that investigators now must contemplate a bomber capable of using multiple methods to start an explosion, perhaps even by timer or remote control.

A trip wire, which typically works by stringing a taut string across a pathway, detonates a bomb when a person pushes into it. Stringing a wire across or near a route used by multiple people could introduce a new element of randomness to the attacks, said James R. Fitzgerald, a former FBI profiler who worked on the Unabomber case.

Employing a detonating device that doesn’t target any particular person would indicate a dangerous capriciousness and callousness, he said — the bomber “wants to strike out at some perceived wrong, and anyone who gets hurt is of no consequence to him.”

By mixing his targets — from specific people who receive a package on their porch to anyone who stumbles by — the bomber could be trying to spread general fear and unease throughout the city, Fitzgerald said.

Or he might be purposefully trying to distract from his real intention.

BACKGROUND: Bombs in Austin attacks constructed from readily available materials

That was the case when, in December 1989, an Atlanta attorney named Robert Robertson was killed when he opened a brown package he received at home. Investigators at first thought his death was connected to a virtually identical fatal bomb detonated at the house of federal Judge Robert Vance two days earlier. But they later learned Walter Moody had killed Robertson as misdirection.

As a result, Fitzgerald said it’s possible that any of the victims of the first bombs — 17-year-old Draylen Mason and Anthony Stephan House, 39, who both died; and 75-year-old Esperanza Herrera, who was seriously injured — might still be the target of the bomber, with the latest explosion intended only to throw police off the scent.

“It makes it almost seem like the bombings are meaningless, but I still think it means something very specific to him,” Fitzgerald said.

Similarly, experts said, the fact that the newest attack occurred in a neighborhood geographically and demographically different from the other explosions could be part of a deliberate distraction ruse. Yet it could also represent a widening of the bomber’s campaign, signaling that he is bold enough to scout out and work in multiple locations.

Finally, the latest attack suggests that whoever is bombing Austin probably isn’t done.

“A bomb is a statement, but there’s also an element of compulsion to it,” said Brian Jenkins, a Rand Corp. analyst who has studied terrorism and bombings. “Bombers don’t retire.”

AUSTIN BOMBINGS: Click here for complete coverage

Still, experts said the additional attack will yield a new batch of clues that can be mined by the army of local and federal investigators, explosives experts, bomb technicians, evidence teams, chemists, engineers and dogs that has descended on Austin in recent days. Testing has become sophisticated enough that technicians can often trace a small piece of PVC or galvanized steel from a burst pipe bomb back to its manufacturer, said Tina Sherrow, a recently retired senior special agent in the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives’ Chicago office.

“Our bomb technicians and our explosive specialists have seen so many devices over the years that they can put these devices back together,” Milanowski added. “We have a high degree of confidence in how the previous devices were built, and now all that evidence is at our laboratory for fingerprint and DNA analysis.”

“It’s like a 1,000-piece puzzle,” Sherrow said. “You never know where a piece is going to fit in.”
Title: 💣 The Mad Bomber of Austin Strikes Again!
Post by: RE on March 20, 2018, 04:43:33 AM
#5.

RE

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43470397 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43470397)

Texas explosions: FBI investigating new blast at FedEx plant

    19 minutes ago

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/F18F/production/_100493816_mediaitem100493813.jpg)
Image copyright Reuters
Image caption An FBI spokeswoman said the agency suspected a link to previous bombings in the state

US authorities suspect that a parcel bomb that exploded at a FedEx depot in Texas on Tuesday is connected to a serial bomber in the state.

The incident occurred in the early hours in Schertz, 65 miles (104km) south of Austin, where four bombs have killed two people in recent weeks.

No injuries have been reported in the Schertz blast.

"We suspect it is related to our investigation," FBI spokeswoman Michelle Lee told CNN.

Three of the four previous devices planted in Austin were hidden in parcels left at residential addresses. Police said another was probably activated by a tripwire, triggered by two men walking along a street in south-west Austin.

The first exploded on 2 March, killing Anthony Stephan House, 29, at his home.

Two more bombs exploded 10 days later. Draylen William Mason, 17, was killed and his mother was critically injured when he brought a package inside his home.

Hours later, a 75-year-old Hispanic woman, who has not been named, was injured by another package.

    'Serial bomber' suspected in Austin blasts

Investigators initially said that they were looking at a possible racial motivation for the attacks, which killed two black men and injured a Hispanic woman, but the tripwire device on Sunday night appeared to be indiscriminate and injured two white men.

"With this tripwire, this changes things," said Christopher Combs, the special agent in charge of the FBI's San Antonio office.

"It's more sophisticated. It's not targeted to individuals. We're very concerned that with tripwires, a child could be walking down the sidewalk and hit something."
Image copyright FBI

Mr Combs said more than 350 special agents were working on the investigation, calling it an "unprecedented response."

Austin police have offered a $100,000 (£71,340) reward for information.

Texas Governor Greg Abbott has offered an additional $15,000.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 20, 2018, 05:39:47 AM
Maybe put in a FedEx box on Sunday around the time he set the one with the trip wire? It's possible anyway. More dangerous to send one through a mailing service, because he either had to hand it to somebody or drop it into a drop box, one or the other. He had to figure out a way to do that without setting it off.

I have a theory about where he lives, based on the traffic patterns. Austin has no loop around town. All traffic is forced to travel mostly north-south along a few major corridors. It seems likely this person or persons lives near the confluence of two major traffic arteries in far north Austin, with access to both the east side and west side major arteries. He started on the east side, probably not that far from his location. First he used the far east Hiway 183 corridor, placing each succeeding device a little further away. the Sunday trip-wire bomb was placed not far off the OTHER artery, which is the MoPac freeway. He has a car obviously. I think it's likely he has an accomplice who keeps watch. The Sunday bomb was likely set in broad daylight, or dusk at the latest.

I would bet a buck he lives somewhere in Wells Branch or along Parmer Lane, which is convenient to both corridors.

(http://www.destination360.com/north-america/us/texas/austin/springhill-suites-by-marriott-austin-north-parmer-lane-map.gif)

I am increasingly willing to believe this is a real terrorist, of the Muslim variety. But if so he's not communicating with any group, because they'd be taking credit for it. It could be another husband/wife team. This area of far north Austin is certainly populated by plenty of younger Muslims. Some of them are my patients.

He isn't an eco-terrorist, because he is now notorious and has a platform to spread his manifesto or message, and he is NOT taking advantage of it. This last one seems to increase the probability that the victims are chosen at random, which fits my initial theory.

The police yesterday repeated all the things i already said, including that the Sunday bomb might have been placed far away from the initial victims to throw police off the scent. But I think that's increasingly unlikely.

Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on March 20, 2018, 06:00:10 AM
Maybe put in a FedEx box on Sunday around the time he set the one with the trip wire? It's possible anyway. More dangerous to send one through a mailing service, because he either had to hand it to somebody or drop it into a drop box, one or the other. He had to figure out a way to do that without setting it off.

This one likely was set on a timer.  A motion trigger would have set it off when he dropped it in the box.  Next up in triggers would be a remote control one.

He may have a Manifesto, just isn't sharing it as of yet.  Perhaps he is waiting until he gets caught for that.

He's also quite good with not leaving any clues.  No security camera videos, no fingerprints on the bomb remains, no DNA from hair or skin, no clear pattern other than it's all taking place around Austin so he definitely lives in the area.

His pace of bombings is astounding.  He must have a lot of bomb making material stockpiled, because to go buy the stuff now would be a dead giveaway.

I think it is a Lone Bomber.  He's been planning this for quite some time.  Nobody is coming forward with information because he doesn't share this obsession with anyone.  He doesn't have a girlfriend.  He's going to be tough to catch, he's not stupid.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 20, 2018, 06:08:04 AM
It could have been set on a timer, but it went off when it got dropped off a conveyor belt, so it was detonated by a mild impact.

I think an-ecoterrorist would not target black people on the east side. And I think the manifesto would be showing up already. he's on the national news now.

His main product is fear. Says terrorist to me. Lone wolf, yeah. Or a very tight pair.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on March 20, 2018, 06:20:54 AM
It could have been set on a timer, but it went off when it got dropped off a conveyor belt, so it was detonated by a mild impact.

I think an-ecoterrorist would not target black people on the east side. And I think the manifesto would be showing up already. he's on the national news now.

His main product is fear. Says terrorist to me. Lone wolf, yeah. Or a very tight pair.

I think he is purposely varying the targets to throw off the scent.  He's making it appear random, which it may be.  He may just want to feel power by killing anyone at all, doesn't matter to him who is blown away.

There is definitely some rationale behind it though IMHO.  Something is motivating him to try and kill as many as he can.  This isn't something your average crazed nut job with an AR-15 does.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Surly1 on March 20, 2018, 07:27:33 AM
I am increasingly willing to believe this is a real terrorist, of the Muslim variety. But if so he's not communicating with any group, because they'd be taking credit for it. It could be another husband/wife team. This area of far north Austin is certainly populated by plenty of younger Muslims. Some of them are my patients.

Hm. I'd have bet white supremacist/nationalist.

And if it proves to be a white man/couple, watch for the news nets to drop the story like it has leprosy.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 20, 2018, 07:47:55 AM
If it is a white supremacist, then the last two bombings are a probable smokescreen, which is possible, of course.

But each bombing increases risk of getting caught, so it'd be a trade-off, sending bombs to throw police off the scent. I would expect a white supremacist to keep targeting black people anyway, instead of targeting random people in a predominantly white neighborhood.

I wonder where the FedExed bomb was addressed to.....

I was willing to think hate crime myself, before Sunday, but now I'm leaning the other way.

I am hoping he's caught soon. Everyone here is now scared shitless.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 20, 2018, 10:08:04 AM
It now appears that two bombs were FedExed from a center in the same general vicinity of the Sunday trip-wire bomb. One of them went to a 2nd center in Schertz on its way back to an address somewhere in Austin. The other went to a 2nd center in far South Austin, and they caught it this morning and are preparing to have the bomb squad detonate it. The addresses, if known exactly, are not being disclosed.

This tends to confirm my theory that all that was done Sunday afternoon on a trip (most likely) to a part of town far from the bombers home turf.

All these locations. every one, look like they were accomplished from somebody driving (further each time) from the area I mapped this morning. That's why I think all the victims are random. I'm not even sure this person had any idea that racial bias might occur to anyone. To a foreign born terrorist, the nuances of various neighborhoods might not even be appreciated fully.

http://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/heavy-police-presence-at-fedex-near-austin-airport/1062630735 (http://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/heavy-police-presence-at-fedex-near-austin-airport/1062630735)
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 20, 2018, 10:55:58 AM
On a more normal, less interesting note, a school shooter in Maryland today managed to shoot two other students, even though there was an armed guard there who quickly shot him too. He later died. (The shooter, not the cop.)

Maybe if they just shot kids who appeared suspiciously at risk for becoming a school shooter,we could fix the problem. Or just let the school administators pick one troublemaker each semester to shoot to set an example for the others. There has to be a way to solve this using more guns, and not less.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/maryland-authorities-investigating-shooting-at-high-school/2018/03/20/4deeadee-2c39-11e8-8ad6-fbc50284fce8_story.html?utm_term=.52b7bddb2901 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/maryland-authorities-investigating-shooting-at-high-school/2018/03/20/4deeadee-2c39-11e8-8ad6-fbc50284fce8_story.html?utm_term=.52b7bddb2901)

Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on March 20, 2018, 10:58:03 AM
I am increasingly willing to believe this is a real terrorist, of the Muslim variety. But if so he's not communicating with any group, because they'd be taking credit for it. It could be another husband/wife team. This area of far north Austin is certainly populated by plenty of younger Muslims. Some of them are my patients.

Hm. I'd have bet white supremacist/nationalist.

And if it proves to be a white man/couple, watch for the news nets to drop the story like it has leprosy.

I don't think he is going to be caught any time too soon.  After 5 bombings, the FBI is no closer to catching him than after the first bombing.  No suspects, no "persons of interest".  I suspect he will also change his MO again for the next one.  Maybe a trash can bomb.

There's also the question of how much bomb making supplies he has stocked up?  He can't go out now and buy large quantities of gunpowder or ammonium nitrate.  He'll have to take a hiatus at some point, wait a couple of months then travel to buy more.  He also likely has a TX Driver's License and an Austin address, and I am pretty sure you need to show that anytime you buy gunpowder.

In terms of demographic, besides Muslim and White Supremacist, it could be an Illegal Alien from south of the border also.  Retaliation for the Border Wall.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 20, 2018, 11:03:56 AM
According to what I'm reading locally, they do have persons of interest. That's what the cops are saying. Obviously they'd arrest anyone if they had the least bit of probable cause.

I don't see an illegal Mexican or a Dreamer doing this. Totally goes against everything I know about Mexicans. Could be some crazy war vet maybe. Of any ethnicity.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on March 20, 2018, 11:35:49 AM
I don't see an illegal Mexican or a Dreamer doing this. Totally goes against everything I know about Mexicans.

Mexican Drug Cartels aren't the most peaceful people in the world.  If he was a member of a drug gang, I suspect this would be right up his alley.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 20, 2018, 11:46:55 AM
Cartels bomb each other, judges, journalists and potential witnesses. Not random Austinites. Austin is a place cartel people go to get away from all that. It's neutral territory.
Title: 💣 Two FedEx locations under investigation in Austin
Post by: RE on March 20, 2018, 11:47:57 AM
Another FedEx location with a "suspicious package".

RE

http://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/heavy-police-presence-at-fedex-near-austin-airport/1062630735 (http://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/heavy-police-presence-at-fedex-near-austin-airport/1062630735)

Two FedEx locations under investigation in Austin
By: Kate Winkle

(https://media.kxan.com/nxs-kxantv-media-us-east-1/photo/2018/03/20/Austin_FedEx_employee_describes_evacuati_1_37839640_ver1.0_640_360.jpg)

Updated: Mar 20, 2018 01:28 PM CDT
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AUSTIN (KXAN) - At a glance

    APD is investigating a suspicious package at a FedEx Location on McKinney Falls Parkway
    A FedEx Office on Brodie Lane is closed. Police there say the package that exploded in Schertz this morning may have been shipped from that location
    The package that exploded in Schertz was bound for Austin, NBC reports

Update: 1:07 p.m.

FedEx released a statement on the package explosion at its Schertz facility and second suspicious package found in the Austin McKinney Falls Parkway location. It said the second package was secured and turned over to law enforcement.

"We have provided law enforcement responsible for this investigation extensive evidence related to these packages and the individual that shipped them collected from our advanced technology security systems," FedEx tweeted.

Update 12:51 p.m.

KXAN's Alyssa Goard observed FBI agents at the Brodie Lane FedEx measuring doors with a tape measure and covering some entrances with butcher paper inside the location.

A robbery detective told KXAN that method is used to determine height.

Update 12:15 p.m.

Austin police held a briefing just after noon Tuesday, providing few details on the investigation at the FedEx facility on McKinney Falls Parkway. An officer could not confirm if officials planned to detonate a package at the facility.

APD reminded residents to call 911 if they see anything suspicious.

Update 11:34 a.m.

A source briefed on the investigation tells NBC's Gabe Gutierrez police are about to blow up a suspected bomb at the FedEx facility near the Austin airport. The source says officials believe the suspected bomber mailed two packaged from a FedEx drop-off center in Austin. One of them exploded at a Schertz, Texas, FedEx facility, while the other arrived at the McKinney Falls Parkway FedEx facility.

Both packages have nails in them, a source said, and both were headed to Austin addresses.

Update 11:10 a.m.

The Sunset Valley Police Department says the FBI is investigating "a confirmed link between packages involved in the Austin bombing investigation and a mail delivery office in Sunset Valley. It appears that the source of the suspect packages was a private package delivery office in Sunset Valley." It says it does not know of any known public safety threats but urges residents to be vigilant and report any suspicious packages or items.

Officers and FBI agents are on scene near a FedEx store on Brodie Lane.

Update 11:09 a.m.

APD tweeted that it responded to 420 suspicious package calls between 8 a.m. Monday and 8 a.m. Tuesday, bringing the total to about 1,257 calls since March 12.

Update 10:40 a.m.

Tuesday morning Austin interim police Chief Brian Manley addressed the Austin City Council to give them an update on the Austin bombings. He said that the specific components in the devices make investigators believe they are all related. They are holding back on sharing specific things about the packages that only the bomber may know.

Full Story:

Austin Police are investigating a suspicious package at a FedEx Ground facility in Austin. The city is on high alert after four package explosions in three weeks.

That facility is at 4117 McKinney Falls Parkway, near the Austin-Bergstrom International Airport. Austin police confirm they are investigating after a call came in at 6:19 a.m. Deputies from the Travis County Sheriff's Office are also on scene, as well as members of the Austin Fire Department and Austin-Travis County EMS. FedEx employees evacuated and some were told to go home after a meeting with managers. It's not known how many were working at the time.

At 9 a.m., KXAN received information a FedEx Office Print and Ship Center at 5601 Brodie Lane in south Austin was surrounded by authorities. When KXAN called the office, there was an automated message that said the location was closed for the day. Photos show the area is roped off with crime tape.

A Sunset Valley Police officer at the scene told KXAN's Alyssa Goard said the package that exploded at the Schertz facility was shipped from the Brodie location. Sunset Valley police says it started assisting the FBI around 6:30 a.m. by providing perimeter security as it investigates.

The Sunset Valley Police Department says the FBI is investigating "a confirmed link between packages involved in the Austin bombing investigation and a mail delivery office in Sunset Valley. It appears that the source of the suspect packages was a private package delivery office in Sunset Valley." It says it does not know of any known public safety threats but urges residents to be vigilant and report any suspicious packages or items.

Tuesday morning Austin interim police Chief Brian Manley addressed the Austin City Council to give them an update on the Austin bombings. He said that the specific components in the devices make investigators believe they are all related. They are holding back on sharing specific things about the packages that only the bomber may know.

APD tweeted that it responded to 420 suspicious package calls between 8 a.m. Monday and 8 a.m. Tuesday, bringing the total to about 1,257 calls since March 12.
Inside the Facility

One employee, who asked not to be named, said they didn't receive warnings about packages at their facilities because previous bombs in Austin were left overnight and not sent through official delivery systems.

"When the boxes come down the belts or the sorters sort them out, you can’t tell if it’s an explosive box," the employee said. "There’s no way to tell at all."

video
Employees evacuate Austin FedEx facility

The intersection of McKinney Falls Parkway and Burleson Road has re-opened to traffic, but entrances and exits to the FedEx facility are blocked off. FedEx drivers were gathered outside waiting to get into work told KXAN's Wes Rapaport that the facility processes between 20,000 to 30,000 packages a day, and each driver will deliver between 200 and 300 packages a day.

Around 12:30 a.m. Tuesday a package bomb went off at a FedEx Ground facility in Schertz, Texas, about 75 miles southwest of Austin. Officials say that package was bound for Austin. This comes in the wake of four package bombings in Austin in the past three weeks, in which two people have died and four people have been hurt.

video
Austin FedEx employee describes...

video
Austin Mayor Adler discusses FedEx...

Copyright 2018 Nexstar Broadcasting, Inc. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
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Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on March 20, 2018, 11:49:57 AM
Cartels bomb each other, judges, journalists and potential witnesses. Not random Austinites. Austin is a place cartel people go to get away from all that. It's neutral territory.

I didn't say he was currently a cartel soldier, just a graduate of one now living on this side of the border illegally.  I still think he is doing this on his own, not as part of a gang.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 20, 2018, 12:11:26 PM
I do think Austin is a "no-violence allowed" area for cartels. I do think there is a lot of cartel money here, and some of the higher-ups have homes here. If an ex-soldier is doing it, he's off the rez and subject to being sanctioned himself. I suppose its possible, but that's way down my list. Muslim is more likely. White supremacist too, but looking less likely now, imho.
Title: Re: 💣 Two FedEx locations under investigation in Austin
Post by: Eddie on March 20, 2018, 02:55:30 PM
Another FedEx location with a "suspicious package".

RE

http://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/heavy-police-presence-at-fedex-near-austin-airport/1062630735 (http://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/heavy-police-presence-at-fedex-near-austin-airport/1062630735)

Two FedEx locations under investigation in Austin
By: Kate Winkle

(https://media.kxan.com/nxs-kxantv-media-us-east-1/photo/2018/03/20/Austin_FedEx_employee_describes_evacuati_1_37839640_ver1.0_640_360.jpg)

Updated: Mar 20, 2018 01:28 PM CDT
AddThis Sharing Buttons
Share to Facebook2.2KShare to Twitter
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AUSTIN (KXAN) - At a glance

    APD is investigating a suspicious package at a FedEx Location on McKinney Falls Parkway
    A FedEx Office on Brodie Lane is closed. Police there say the package that exploded in Schertz this morning may have been shipped from that location
    The package that exploded in Schertz was bound for Austin, NBC reports

Update: 1:07 p.m.

FedEx released a statement on the package explosion at its Schertz facility and second suspicious package found in the Austin McKinney Falls Parkway location. It said the second package was secured and turned over to law enforcement.

"We have provided law enforcement responsible for this investigation extensive evidence related to these packages and the individual that shipped them collected from our advanced technology security systems," FedEx tweeted.

Update 12:51 p.m.

KXAN's Alyssa Goard observed FBI agents at the Brodie Lane FedEx measuring doors with a tape measure and covering some entrances with butcher paper inside the location.

A robbery detective told KXAN that method is used to determine height.

Update 12:15 p.m.

Austin police held a briefing just after noon Tuesday, providing few details on the investigation at the FedEx facility on McKinney Falls Parkway. An officer could not confirm if officials planned to detonate a package at the facility.

APD reminded residents to call 911 if they see anything suspicious.

Update 11:34 a.m.

A source briefed on the investigation tells NBC's Gabe Gutierrez police are about to blow up a suspected bomb at the FedEx facility near the Austin airport. The source says officials believe the suspected bomber mailed two packaged from a FedEx drop-off center in Austin. One of them exploded at a Schertz, Texas, FedEx facility, while the other arrived at the McKinney Falls Parkway FedEx facility.

Both packages have nails in them, a source said, and both were headed to Austin addresses.

Update 11:10 a.m.

The Sunset Valley Police Department says the FBI is investigating "a confirmed link between packages involved in the Austin bombing investigation and a mail delivery office in Sunset Valley. It appears that the source of the suspect packages was a private package delivery office in Sunset Valley." It says it does not know of any known public safety threats but urges residents to be vigilant and report any suspicious packages or items.

Officers and FBI agents are on scene near a FedEx store on Brodie Lane.

Update 11:09 a.m.

APD tweeted that it responded to 420 suspicious package calls between 8 a.m. Monday and 8 a.m. Tuesday, bringing the total to about 1,257 calls since March 12.

Update 10:40 a.m.

Tuesday morning Austin interim police Chief Brian Manley addressed the Austin City Council to give them an update on the Austin bombings. He said that the specific components in the devices make investigators believe they are all related. They are holding back on sharing specific things about the packages that only the bomber may know.

Full Story:

Austin Police are investigating a suspicious package at a FedEx Ground facility in Austin. The city is on high alert after four package explosions in three weeks.

That facility is at 4117 McKinney Falls Parkway, near the Austin-Bergstrom International Airport. Austin police confirm they are investigating after a call came in at 6:19 a.m. Deputies from the Travis County Sheriff's Office are also on scene, as well as members of the Austin Fire Department and Austin-Travis County EMS. FedEx employees evacuated and some were told to go home after a meeting with managers. It's not known how many were working at the time.

At 9 a.m., KXAN received information a FedEx Office Print and Ship Center at 5601 Brodie Lane in south Austin was surrounded by authorities. When KXAN called the office, there was an automated message that said the location was closed for the day. Photos show the area is roped off with crime tape.

A Sunset Valley Police officer at the scene told KXAN's Alyssa Goard said the package that exploded at the Schertz facility was shipped from the Brodie location. Sunset Valley police says it started assisting the FBI around 6:30 a.m. by providing perimeter security as it investigates.

The Sunset Valley Police Department says the FBI is investigating "a confirmed link between packages involved in the Austin bombing investigation and a mail delivery office in Sunset Valley. It appears that the source of the suspect packages was a private package delivery office in Sunset Valley." It says it does not know of any known public safety threats but urges residents to be vigilant and report any suspicious packages or items.

Tuesday morning Austin interim police Chief Brian Manley addressed the Austin City Council to give them an update on the Austin bombings. He said that the specific components in the devices make investigators believe they are all related. They are holding back on sharing specific things about the packages that only the bomber may know.

APD tweeted that it responded to 420 suspicious package calls between 8 a.m. Monday and 8 a.m. Tuesday, bringing the total to about 1,257 calls since March 12.
Inside the Facility

One employee, who asked not to be named, said they didn't receive warnings about packages at their facilities because previous bombs in Austin were left overnight and not sent through official delivery systems.

"When the boxes come down the belts or the sorters sort them out, you can’t tell if it’s an explosive box," the employee said. "There’s no way to tell at all."

video
Employees evacuate Austin FedEx facility

The intersection of McKinney Falls Parkway and Burleson Road has re-opened to traffic, but entrances and exits to the FedEx facility are blocked off. FedEx drivers were gathered outside waiting to get into work told KXAN's Wes Rapaport that the facility processes between 20,000 to 30,000 packages a day, and each driver will deliver between 200 and 300 packages a day.

Around 12:30 a.m. Tuesday a package bomb went off at a FedEx Ground facility in Schertz, Texas, about 75 miles southwest of Austin. Officials say that package was bound for Austin. This comes in the wake of four package bombings in Austin in the past three weeks, in which two people have died and four people have been hurt.

video
Austin FedEx employee describes...

video
Austin Mayor Adler discusses FedEx...

Copyright 2018 Nexstar Broadcasting, Inc. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
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So, apparently they managed to secure the 2nd Fedex (unexploded) bomb this morning without it detonating. That should allow for some better forensics. He'll have to be really good to not have left any trace evidence. I recently read about a bomb sent to the governor they traced from a cat hair under the postage stamp.
Title: Hey Eddie and RE, this doom article may be of interest to you
Post by: agelbert on March 20, 2018, 03:36:27 PM
What Do They Know That We Don't? DC Officials Flock To Doomsday Camps (https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-20/what-do-they-know-we-dont-dc-officials-flock-doomsday-camps)

🤔
Title: Re: 💣 Two FedEx locations under investigation in Austin
Post by: RE on March 20, 2018, 03:49:38 PM
So, apparently they managed to secure the 2nd Fedex (unexploded) bomb this morning without it detonating. That should allow for some better forensics. He'll have to be really good to not have left any trace evidence. I recently read about a bomb sent to the governor they traced from a cat hair under the postage stamp.

Also, the packages were apparently brought inside a FedEx store for mailing, not dropped in a box.  I'm amazed they don't have security camera footage.  :o At any rate, I would suspect they are installing security cameras in all the FedEx, UPS & USPS locations in Austin right now.  That's why I think he'll go to a new MO for the next one.

Far as forensics on the unexploded bomb, a cat hair wouldn't identify him, it could only confirm his identity later if he owned the cat it came from.  Even DNA evidence won't identify him unless his DNA is in a database somewhere.  Fingerprints are the only one of these methods that works because just about everyone gets fingerprinted at some point and it all goes in the database.  If he's not wearing surgical gloves in the bomb construction he's an idiot, and so far he doesn't appear to be an idiot.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Surly1 on March 20, 2018, 04:33:50 PM

Maybe if they just shot kids who appeared suspiciously at risk for becoming a school shooter,we could fix the problem. Or just let the school administators pick one troublemaker each semester to shoot to set an example for the others. There has to be a way to solve this using more guns, and not less.

Superb idea whose time has come.

Make it an event. That short story by Shirley Jackson called "The Lottery" (which many of us read in high school) provides a useful template.
Mob psychology, the abandonment of reason and cruel, reflective action. Instead of stones, the students can give the ;lottery "winner" a head start, then chase him or her with guns.

It an even be a reality TV program, making it pitch perfect for our times.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on March 20, 2018, 04:37:08 PM

Maybe if they just shot kids who appeared suspiciously at risk for becoming a school shooter,we could fix the problem. Or just let the school administators pick one troublemaker each semester to shoot to set an example for the others. There has to be a way to solve this using more guns, and not less.

Superb idea whose time has come.

Make it an event. That short story by Shirley Jackson called "The Lottery" (which many of us read in high school) provides a useful template.
Mob psychology, the abandonment of reason and cruel, reflective action. Instead of stones, the students can give the ;lottery "winner" a head start, then chase him or her with guns.

It an even be a reality TV program, making it pitch perfect for our times.

I think there was already a movie series with this theme.  I forget the name, I didn't go see any of the installments.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on March 20, 2018, 04:38:48 PM

Maybe if they just shot kids who appeared suspiciously at risk for becoming a school shooter,we could fix the problem. Or just let the school administators pick one troublemaker each semester to shoot to set an example for the others. There has to be a way to solve this using more guns, and not less.

Superb idea whose time has come.

Make it an event. That short story by Shirley Jackson called "The Lottery" (which many of us read in high school) provides a useful template.
Mob psychology, the abandonment of reason and cruel, reflective action. Instead of stones, the students can give the ;lottery "winner" a head start, then chase him or her with guns.

It an even be a reality TV program, making it pitch perfect for our times.

I think there was already a movie series with this theme.  I forget the name, I didn't go see any of the installments.

RE

Now I remember.  The Hunger Games.

RE
Title: Re: 💣 Two FedEx locations under investigation in Austin
Post by: Eddie on March 20, 2018, 04:55:37 PM
So, apparently they managed to secure the 2nd Fedex (unexploded) bomb this morning without it detonating. That should allow for some better forensics. He'll have to be really good to not have left any trace evidence. I recently read about a bomb sent to the governor they traced from a cat hair under the postage stamp.

Also, the packages were apparently brought inside a FedEx store for mailing, not dropped in a box.  I'm amazed they don't have security camera footage.  :o At any rate, I would suspect they are installing security cameras in all the FedEx, UPS & USPS locations in Austin right now.  That's why I think he'll go to a new MO for the next one.

Far as forensics on the unexploded bomb, a cat hair wouldn't identify him, it could only confirm his identity later if he owned the cat it came from.  Even DNA evidence won't identify him unless his DNA is in a database somewhere.  Fingerprints are the only one of these methods that works because just about everyone gets fingerprinted at some point and it all goes in the database.  If he's not wearing surgical gloves in the bomb construction he's an idiot, and so far he doesn't appear to be an idiot.

RE

The drive time radio jocks said somebody called their show with pics that showed at least 8 security cameras at the store. The cops have been suspiciously quiet most of the day. Maybe they got something.
Title: Re: 💣 Two FedEx locations under investigation in Austin
Post by: RE on March 20, 2018, 05:04:48 PM
So, apparently they managed to secure the 2nd Fedex (unexploded) bomb this morning without it detonating. That should allow for some better forensics. He'll have to be really good to not have left any trace evidence. I recently read about a bomb sent to the governor they traced from a cat hair under the postage stamp.

Also, the packages were apparently brought inside a FedEx store for mailing, not dropped in a box.  I'm amazed they don't have security camera footage.  :o At any rate, I would suspect they are installing security cameras in all the FedEx, UPS & USPS locations in Austin right now.  That's why I think he'll go to a new MO for the next one.

Far as forensics on the unexploded bomb, a cat hair wouldn't identify him, it could only confirm his identity later if he owned the cat it came from.  Even DNA evidence won't identify him unless his DNA is in a database somewhere.  Fingerprints are the only one of these methods that works because just about everyone gets fingerprinted at some point and it all goes in the database.  If he's not wearing surgical gloves in the bomb construction he's an idiot, and so far he doesn't appear to be an idiot.

RE

The drive time radio jocks said somebody called their show with pics that showed at least 8 security cameras at the store. The cops have been suspiciously quiet most of the day. Maybe they got something.

If they have footage, they likely wouldn't release it unless you could identify the perp from his face.  Then it would pay to have as many people see that face as possible.  I would bet he was disguised or had his face covered in some way.  I don't think he will use the commercial carriers again for the next bombing.  I think a garbage can like at the Boston Marathon is the next likely candidate.

RE
Title: Re: Hey Eddie and RE, this doom article may be of interest to you
Post by: Eddie on March 20, 2018, 05:08:44 PM
What Do They Know That We Don't? DC Officials Flock To Doomsday Camps (https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-20/what-do-they-know-we-dont-dc-officials-flock-doomsday-camps)

🤔

More Doom Capitalism. Spend a thousand bucks and you won't have to worry when the Zombie Apocalypse comes. I don't trust anybody who making a "coin offering".
Title: Re: 💣 Two FedEx locations under investigation in Austin
Post by: Eddie on March 20, 2018, 05:12:34 PM
So, apparently they managed to secure the 2nd Fedex (unexploded) bomb this morning without it detonating. That should allow for some better forensics. He'll have to be really good to not have left any trace evidence. I recently read about a bomb sent to the governor they traced from a cat hair under the postage stamp.

Also, the packages were apparently brought inside a FedEx store for mailing, not dropped in a box.  I'm amazed they don't have security camera footage.  :o At any rate, I would suspect they are installing security cameras in all the FedEx, UPS & USPS locations in Austin right now.  That's why I think he'll go to a new MO for the next one.

Far as forensics on the unexploded bomb, a cat hair wouldn't identify him, it could only confirm his identity later if he owned the cat it came from.  Even DNA evidence won't identify him unless his DNA is in a database somewhere.  Fingerprints are the only one of these methods that works because just about everyone gets fingerprinted at some point and it all goes in the database.  If he's not wearing surgical gloves in the bomb construction he's an idiot, and so far he doesn't appear to be an idiot.

RE

The drive time radio jocks said somebody called their show with pics that showed at least 8 security cameras at the store. The cops have been suspiciously quiet most of the day. Maybe they got something.

If they have footage, they likely wouldn't release it unless you could identify the perp from his face.  Then it would pay to have as many people see that face as possible.  I would bet he was disguised or had his face covered in some way.  I don't think he will use the commercial carriers again for the next bombing.  I think a garbage can like at the Boston Marathon is the next likely candidate.

RE

Austin has so much open downtown green space with the Hike and Bike Trail. More than 10 miles of downtown trashcans with lots of joggers and bikers and people walking. They do patrol it regularly. Cops on mountain bikes. But they can't be everywhere.
Title: Re: 💣 Two FedEx locations under investigation in Austin
Post by: RE on March 20, 2018, 05:40:17 PM
So, apparently they managed to secure the 2nd Fedex (unexploded) bomb this morning without it detonating. That should allow for some better forensics. He'll have to be really good to not have left any trace evidence. I recently read about a bomb sent to the governor they traced from a cat hair under the postage stamp.

Also, the packages were apparently brought inside a FedEx store for mailing, not dropped in a box.  I'm amazed they don't have security camera footage.  :o At any rate, I would suspect they are installing security cameras in all the FedEx, UPS & USPS locations in Austin right now.  That's why I think he'll go to a new MO for the next one.

Far as forensics on the unexploded bomb, a cat hair wouldn't identify him, it could only confirm his identity later if he owned the cat it came from.  Even DNA evidence won't identify him unless his DNA is in a database somewhere.  Fingerprints are the only one of these methods that works because just about everyone gets fingerprinted at some point and it all goes in the database.  If he's not wearing surgical gloves in the bomb construction he's an idiot, and so far he doesn't appear to be an idiot.

RE

The drive time radio jocks said somebody called their show with pics that showed at least 8 security cameras at the store. The cops have been suspiciously quiet most of the day. Maybe they got something.

If they have footage, they likely wouldn't release it unless you could identify the perp from his face.  Then it would pay to have as many people see that face as possible.  I would bet he was disguised or had his face covered in some way.  I don't think he will use the commercial carriers again for the next bombing.  I think a garbage can like at the Boston Marathon is the next likely candidate.

RE

Austin has so much open downtown green space with the Hike and Bike Trail. More than 10 miles of downtown trashcans with lots of joggers and bikers and people walking. They do patrol it regularly. Cops on mountain bikes. But they can't be everywhere.

Now that he is on the serious Radar, he has to be terrifically careful in placing his bombs.  If he can't use a commercial carrier, he has to do that himself.  So likely he would work at night to do this.

I pondered on the question of other placement methods, and another one I thought of was to have magnetic attachments to hook the bomb to the gas tank underneath any car or truck.  Next time the vehicle moves and hits a bump, BOOM!  You could go to any drop lot in the middle of the night and hook it to trailers too.  Walmart parking lots, even private home driveways.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Palloy2 on March 20, 2018, 06:41:22 PM
(https://doomsteaddiner.net/palloy/images/austin.TX.jpg)

Quote
Eddie: Austin has so much open downtown green space with the Hike and Bike Trail.

Er, where?
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on March 20, 2018, 06:50:40 PM
(https://doomsteaddiner.net/palloy/images/austin.TX.jpg)

Quote
Eddie: Austin has so much open downtown green space with the Hike and Bike Trail.

Er, where?

Here.

Austin Greenspace
Austin Greenspace

Granted, this is not much by Tropical Rainforest or Alaska Bush standards, but it's still a lot of territory for cops to monitor 24/7 on bicycles.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Palloy2 on March 20, 2018, 07:31:01 PM
(https://doomsteaddiner.net/palloy/images/austin.TX.2.jpg)

Oh yes, lots of fresh air there, and a few trees someone forgot to knock over.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 20, 2018, 08:23:19 PM
On that map it's hard to see, but Barton Creek, which is a small, mostly underground river that comes in as a tributary there downtown, can be followed for seven miles upstream along public urban trails. Better green space than most cities.

There is a spring there near the confluence of the two rivers that flows 30 million gallons of water a day. It's a very special place, trust me.


Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on March 20, 2018, 08:35:18 PM
Oh yes, lots of fresh air there, and a few trees someone forgot to knock over.

When you talk "Green Space" in an urban metropolis, you're obviously not talking the Tropical Rainforest or Alaska Bush.  They're not even "natural" really, like Central Park in NYC they're designed by landscape architects like Frederich Law Ohlmstead.

(http://airport2park.org/wp-content/uploads/central-parknyc.jpg)

We're talking about this in the context of the Mad Bomber of Austin.  Spaces like this have many isolated spots at night which are not patrolled and you could drop a bomb set to go off the following morning when the Joggers and Bikers hit the trails.

However, if I was this psycho, I wouldn't go there either.  I would go to somewhere in the bizness district and set the bomb to go off at lunch hour the following day.

He's definitely not going to be able to use commercial carriers in the neighborhood and not get caught.

RE
Title: Austin bombing suspect reportedly dead
Post by: Surly1 on March 21, 2018, 02:34:38 AM
Austin bombing suspect reportedly dead (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/austin-bombing-suspect-reportedly-killed-article-1.3887325)

(http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.3887323.1521619455!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_1200/deadly-package-explosion.jpg)

FBI agents meet at the scene of one of the explosions to strike Austin since March 2.  (NICK WAGNER/AP)
BY
NICOLE HENSLEY
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Updated: Wednesday, March 21, 2018, 4:42 AM
The serial bomber behind a deadly exploding package spree in Austin has reportedly died following nearly three weeks of terror in the Texas capitol.

News of the suspect’s death, first reported by the Austin American-Statesman, coincided with a police shooting that stopped traffic along a highway near Austin just before 3 a.m. local time Wednesday.

Dozens of FBI agents were seen swarming the site of the shooting along Interstate 35 in the Round Rock suburb, where law enforcement vehicles lined the roadway about 11 miles north of Austin.

It was not immediately clear how the shooting was related or how the suspect died. A FBI spokeswoman did not respond to a request for comment.

The suspect's death follows the fifth confirmed bomb linked to the plot responsible for killing two people since March 2.

An explosive device, stashed inside a package, detonated inside a FedEx depot near San Antonio early Tuesday. The package, bound for Austin, was also sent from Austin.

KEYE-TV reports U.S. Marshals collected surveillance footage of a man dropping off two packages at a FedEx store in south Austin. One of the packages later exploded at the Schertz facility around 1 a.m. Tuesday. 

This is a developing story and will be updated.
Title: Re: Austin bombing suspect reportedly dead
Post by: RE on March 21, 2018, 02:43:15 AM
Now that's a terrifically nebulous story.  Hopefully we'll get some kind of details later in the day.

RE
Title: Re: Austin bombing suspect reportedly dead
Post by: Surly1 on March 21, 2018, 02:50:54 AM
Now that's a terrifically nebulous story.  Hopefully we'll get some kind of details later in the day.

RE

Well, it just fucking moved. I just saw a report on CNN and wanted to post it here.
Hopefully you're be able to give it the 8000 words it deserves later.

They also have a surveillance photo of a guy that may be the bomber. Probably a blond wig. White guy.
Title: Re: Austin bombing suspect reportedly dead
Post by: RE on March 21, 2018, 02:54:52 AM
Now that's a terrifically nebulous story.  Hopefully we'll get some kind of details later in the day.

RE

Well, it just fucking moved. I just saw a report on CNN and wanted to post it here.
Hopefully you're be able to give it the 8000 words it deserves later.

They also have a surveillance photo of a guy that may be the bomber. Probably a blond wig. White guy.

I don't need 8000 words.  I would just like to know why they think this guy is (was) the bomber, and why he ended up in a shootout with a cop.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 21, 2018, 04:18:20 AM
The guy apparently blew himself up a block from my office. I wonder if I can get to work at all.

The hotels in that area are motels, really. Not sure which one. There is at least one "residence hotel" which is always full of new arrivals who are moving to town, these days.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/mar/21/austin-bomb-suspect-blows-himself-up-us-media-report (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/mar/21/austin-bomb-suspect-blows-himself-up-us-media-report)
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on March 21, 2018, 04:20:32 AM
The guy apparently blew himself up a block from my office. I wonder if I can get to work at all.

The hotels in that area are motels, really. Not sure which one. There is at least one "residence hotel" which is always full of new arrivals who are moving to town, these days.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/mar/21/austin-bomb-suspect-blows-himself-up-us-media-report (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/mar/21/austin-bomb-suspect-blows-himself-up-us-media-report)

Wow!  That's really close to home!

No note or bio yet on the perp.  I wonder if we'lll ever know his motive.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 21, 2018, 05:20:01 AM
You appear to have been right about the Lone Wolf part of the profile. I was right about a couple of things....his location ( a couple of freeway exits north of where I thought). And I was right about the victims being chosen at random and the pattern of how he chose his victims and reached his targets., more or less.

Looks like the cops are taking a Red Roof Inn across the freeway from office apart. It is one of the cheap motels constantly populated recently by out-of-staters moving into Austin.

24 year old white male is all I know. Sounds like  more of a school shooter type.

Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 21, 2018, 05:36:57 AM
Breaking story. He lived in Pflugerville, almost EXACTLY where I placed his location on yesterday's map. The hotel was not his home apparently. I might know somebody who knows him if he's a local. I will come back to this as more info comes out.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 21, 2018, 05:59:49 AM
No name yet. Cops are at his house near Walnut and 2nd, in Pflugerville.

http://www.kxan.com/news/crime/source-bombing-suspect-involved-in-shooting-on-i-35/1065119748 (http://www.kxan.com/news/crime/source-bombing-suspect-involved-in-shooting-on-i-35/1065119748)
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on March 21, 2018, 06:27:49 AM
I wonder why he took the hotel room since he lives in the area anyhow?  :icon_scratch:

He didn't turn out to be particularly bright after all.  He left his cell phone on, so they were able to work out where he was from that.  He also didn't disguise himself or keep his face covered in the FedEx store.

I wonder if that house is where his parents live?  A Millenial living in Mom's Basement?

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 21, 2018, 07:01:45 AM
Sounds like it to me. Name of Mark Anthony Conditt. Not a patient of mine. I checked. Not much info about him out yet. I'm sure we'll know all about him before the day is over. My teacher daughter's BF is from that area and knows a whole lot of people. I will see if he knows anything about this person next time I see him.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 21, 2018, 07:26:06 AM
(http://static-25.sinclairstoryline.com/resources/media/2d5c5bd2-b952-4bdf-99c7-eeddb3fd8324-large16x9_bombsuspectcrop5.jpg?1521616727131)
At the Fedex store



(https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/mark-conditt1.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&w=400&strip=all)
A bit younger, but this is what he really looked like.

Mormon, maybe? Home schooled is what I'm hearing.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on March 21, 2018, 07:28:56 AM
Mormon, maybe? Home schooled is what I'm hearing.

Maybe he's a Millenial Doomer from r/collapse!  :o

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 21, 2018, 07:48:40 AM
Apparently he might have been on Reddit yesterday claiming to be the bomber, and people were mocking him and making fun. It was on the radio last evening.

Mormons online saying "mission trip" is not a term they use (his Mom says he was "maybe going on a mission trip" on her FB in 2013).

Probably an Evangelical.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 21, 2018, 08:00:04 AM
He had worked  at Crux Semiconductor in Austin and previously as a computer repair technician

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/03/21/who-mark-anthony-conditt-austin-serial-bomber/444738002/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/03/21/who-mark-anthony-conditt-austin-serial-bomber/444738002/)

Conditt used an “exotic” and foreign battery in each of his explosives, which allowed authorities to link the bombings together,

https://heavy.com/news/2018/03/mark-anthony-conditt-austin-bomber-bombing-suspect-name/ (https://heavy.com/news/2018/03/mark-anthony-conditt-austin-bomber-bombing-suspect-name/)
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on March 21, 2018, 08:01:35 AM
Apparently he might have been on Reddit yesterday claiming to be the bomber, and people were mocking him and making fun. It was on the radio last evening.

Mormons online saying "mission trip" is not a term they use (his Mom says he was "maybe going on a mission trip" on her FB in 2013).

Probably an Evangelical.

I wonder what his Reddit ID was?  Wonder if I would recognize it?  ???  :icon_scratch:

This would be a way I could see some of the Nihilists & Misanthropes wanting to go out.  They want to take others with them to put them out of their misery and save the world by doing so.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 21, 2018, 08:05:26 AM
Apparently he might have been on Reddit yesterday claiming to be the bomber, and people were mocking him and making fun. It was on the radio last evening.

Mormons online saying "mission trip" is not a term they use (his Mom says he was "maybe going on a mission trip" on her FB in 2013).

Probably an Evangelical.

I wonder what his Reddit ID was?  Wonder if I would recognize it?  ???  :icon_scratch:

This would be a way I could see some of the Nihilists & Misanthropes wanting to go out.  They want to take others with them to put them out of their misery and save the world by doing so.

RE

Logged on as "austinbomber". Probably a hoax. The info he gave was bogus.

http://lmtribune.com/nation/reddit-user-claims-to-be-austin-bomber-says-he-wants/article_f1cd54bc-e2e6-5ffd-aa61-aa970d1d4c89.html (http://lmtribune.com/nation/reddit-user-claims-to-be-austin-bomber-says-he-wants/article_f1cd54bc-e2e6-5ffd-aa61-aa970d1d4c89.html)
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 21, 2018, 08:09:53 AM
A bit of background in this article. Best so far.

https://heavy.com/news/2018/03/mark-anthony-conditt-austin-bomber-bombing-suspect-name/
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on March 21, 2018, 08:25:40 AM
A bit of background in this article. Best so far.

https://heavy.com/news/2018/03/mark-anthony-conditt-austin-bomber-bombing-suspect-name/

According to the article, there's a "Treasure Trove" of information at his house.  We're going to get a lot more coming out from this.

I am beginning to get conspiracy minded here on this and think it's a setup and false flag.  All just too EZ.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 21, 2018, 08:26:21 AM
Dad from Midvale Utah. Sounds Mormon to me. Not confirmed.

https://www.whitepages.com/name/Patrick-Conditt (https://www.whitepages.com/name/Patrick-Conditt)
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 21, 2018, 08:28:14 AM
A bit of background in this article. Best so far.

https://heavy.com/news/2018/03/mark-anthony-conditt-austin-bomber-bombing-suspect-name/

According to the article, there's a "Treasure Trove" of information at his house.  We're going to get a lot more coming out from this.

I am beginning to get conspiracy minded here on this and think it's a setup and false flag.  All just too EZ.

RE

Other people online saying that. It looks legit to me. I think this is the guy, and it's a righteous bust. I'm sure we'll get a lot more.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: K-Dog on March 21, 2018, 09:16:50 AM
A bit of background in this article. Best so far.

https://heavy.com/news/2018/03/mark-anthony-conditt-austin-bomber-bombing-suspect-name/ (https://heavy.com/news/2018/03/mark-anthony-conditt-austin-bomber-bombing-suspect-name/)

According to the article, there's a "Treasure Trove" of information at his house.  We're going to get a lot more coming out from this.

I am beginning to get conspiracy minded here on this and think it's a setup and false flag.  All just too EZ.

RE

False flag maybe but 99% of people are not going to be smart enough to figure out just how EZ it was.  Once they knew where and when a package was shipped all they had to do was consult the database of tracking devices and run them through a filter.  The filter picked up the current location of one of the tracking devices at a hotel.  Perhaps it found a two or three others there as well which had also visited Fed-Ex in the last few days.  All would have been huge red flags for further investigation.  The owner of one of the flagged tracking devices was identified as a match to the surveillance video which prompted a knock on the door or something like that.  He certainly would have been checked out before any women with a flagged cell phone would have been. 

Boom Boom

Correlating the locations of the specific tracking device belonging to the bomber to the location of other tracking devices showed if he was doing this alone (or not).  Such info could be used in making a decision to blow him away or try and take him alive.  Surveillance could have been performed to take him alive but until shit hit the fan he was only a red flagged suspect to be eliminated and the pressure to prevent more bombings meant he had to be checked out and eliminated as a suspect (or not) as soon as possible.

(http://woio.images.worldnow.com/images/14633033_BG1.jpg?auto=webp&disable=upscale&width=800)

I have pulled most of the above from my ass but I am savy when it comes to software, phones, and TPTB.  The fact is the FCC has totally regulated the development of our cell phone infrastructure.  They make sure NO PHONE WITH A HARDWARE ON/OFF switch can be sold.  True story.  The switch on your phone is under software control.  It can be controlled remotely.  A phone that is not like this cannot be sold.

If anyone thinks the FBI and other agencies have not contracted to have a bevy of apps written to track individuals, groups, and all their interactions over the years they probably also consider Chuck-E-Cheese fine dining.

If you are going to be a serial bomber; ditch the cell phone.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: K-Dog on March 21, 2018, 09:32:00 AM
Dad from Midvale Utah. Sounds Mormon to me. Not confirmed.

https://www.whitepages.com/name/Patrick-Conditt (https://www.whitepages.com/name/Patrick-Conditt)

Time will tell more and he may not fit the following scenario but I've wondered how long it would be before one of the dispossessed sons of a polygamous Mormon sect would pop a gasket.  The polygamous old men kick sons out of the tribe so they can have the daughters to themselves. They thump their book and call it right.  Eventually some drama has to result from their unstable and unrighteous polygamous family structure besides descendants who will be drooling adults retards at the 9th generation and a constant stream of disowned sons who have to leave Utah towns for employment at Wall-Marts far far away.   Such drama would, like black-on-black crime not be directed at those who created the problem but rather at random people who would be proxy targets for their rage.

Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 21, 2018, 09:35:58 AM
The various ideological groups are already trying to frame this guy as a Nazi, on the basis of a few things he posted online in the past, which mostly sound like typical Christian Conservative POV, and they're skewering him for being a pedophile because he once posted that it wasn't the best idea to put convicted sex offenders on a permanent list. Pretty far to stretch what he said into any kind of white supremacy statement, but those who want to see him that way will use it.

http://mtonews.com/white-supremacist-terrorist-mark-conditts-sick-political-beliefs-unveiled-anti-abortion-anti-gay-marriage-pro-pedophile/ (http://mtonews.com/white-supremacist-terrorist-mark-conditts-sick-political-beliefs-unveiled-anti-abortion-anti-gay-marriage-pro-pedophile/)

Load of crap in my book.


'
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 21, 2018, 09:45:12 AM
Dad from Midvale Utah. Sounds Mormon to me. Not confirmed.

https://www.whitepages.com/name/Patrick-Conditt (https://www.whitepages.com/name/Patrick-Conditt)

Time will tell more and he may not fit the following scenario but I've wondered how long it would be before one of the dispossessed sons of a polygamous Mormon sect would pop a gasket.  The polygamous old men kick sons out of the tribe so they can have the daughters to themselves. They thump their book and call it right.  Eventually some drama has to result from their unstable and unrighteous polygamous family structure besides descendants who will be drooling adults retards at the 9th generation and a constant stream of disowned sons who have to leave Utah towns for employment at Wall-Marts far far away.   Such drama would, like black-on-black crime not be directed at those who created the problem but rather at random people who would be proxy targets for their rage.

My take is that most of these Mormon kids are raised in a religious cocoon that sort of makes them very naive in the ways of the world as kids. When they get into the harsh realities of BAU they sometimes get their sacred assumptions gobsmacked, and they have a real crisis of faith. All their closely held attachments to their world are ripped out by the roots, and they go nihilist and angry against the world.

This kid doesn't appear to be crazy....not as in schizophrenic . Maybe he read NBL and/or the Diner or Xray Mike or TDos, and he twisted off.

He wasn't on social media much apparently. That alone makes him a real outlier socially. It'll be interesting to see if they tell us what he was reading and watching on utoob, etc. Probably they won't.

Does my pre-smart flip phone have a remote switching thingie, or is that safe from the Feebs? Not that it matters much.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 21, 2018, 10:35:18 AM
Looks like the family church was one of these fairly common non-denominational Evangelical congregations that are everywhere now. His friend said he was in regular attendance. Not sure if that's his current status, or just when he was younger.

https://www.statesman.com/news/crime--law/the-suspect-mark-conditt-rough-around-the-edges-friend-says/CQUCcXNJ9nb2iFs8sSq0pK/ (https://www.statesman.com/news/crime--law/the-suspect-mark-conditt-rough-around-the-edges-friend-says/CQUCcXNJ9nb2iFs8sSq0pK/)

https://austinstone.org/convictions (https://austinstone.org/convictions)

Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 21, 2018, 10:52:00 AM
I just drove through what was left of the Austin Bomber's broken windshield glass on my way to lunch, and I watched the cops take down the crime scene tape and drive off en masse with their cop cars and bomb truck. The show is over here in Round Rock.


The TV news trucks are still set up across the freeway in a parking lot, finishing up their wraps on what has been the closest I've ever come to being personally affected by a homicidal millenial maniac. Which is to say very peripherally. That's okay. It's as close as I want to get.

In my view this guy was a school shooter without a high school to take his rage out on, being home-schooled, as he was.

What is a sane response to the realization that your parents and grandparents generation have probably irreparably harmed the planet and made all our lives forfeit over the medium term?

I will admit I don't really know myself, although I feel mostly pity here. For him and his victims. He didn't appear evil. Maybe just untethered from everything he might have once accepted as truth.

Dover Beach

The sea is calm tonight,
The tide is full, the moon lies fair
Upon the straits; on the French coast the light
Gleams and is gone; the cliffs of England stand
Glimmering and vast, out in the tranquil bay.
Come to the window, sweet is the night air!
Only, from the long line of spray
Where the sea meets the moon-blanched land,
Listen! You hear the grating roar
Of pebbles which the waves draw back and fling
At their return, up the high strand,
Begin, and cease, and then again begin,
With tremulous cadence slow, and bring
The eternal note of sadness in.

Sophocles long ago
Heard it on the Aegean, and it brought
Into his mind the turbid ebb and flow
Of human misery; we
Find also in the sound a thought,
Hearing it by this distant northern sea.

The Sea of Faith
Was once, too, at the full, and round earth's shore
Lay like the folds of a bright girdle furled.
But now I only hear
Its melancholy, long withdrawing roar,
Retreating to the breath
Of the night-wind, down the vast edges drear
And naked shingles of the world.

Ah, love, let us be true
To one another! for the world, which seems
To lie before us like a land of dreams,
So various, so beautiful, so new,
Hath really neither joy, nor love, nor light,
Nor certitude, nor peace, nor help for pain;
And we are here as on a darkling plain
Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight,
Where ignorant armies clash by night.



--- Mathew Arnold
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Surly1 on March 21, 2018, 11:23:27 AM
Sounds like it to me. Name of Mark Anthony Conditt. Not a patient of mine. I checked. Not much info about him out yet. I'm sure we'll know all about him before the day is over. My teacher daughter's BF is from that area and knows a whole lot of people. I will see if he knows anything about this person next time I see him.

 I punched out of the story about 645 in the morning. Someone on CNN just for early this morning was making the bomber, before he was named, out to be an anarchist. So go figure.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Surly1 on March 21, 2018, 11:28:12 AM
The guy apparently blew himself up a block from my office. I wonder if I can get to work at all.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/mar/21/austin-bomb-suspect-blows-himself-up-us-media-report (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/mar/21/austin-bomb-suspect-blows-himself-up-us-media-report)

That is unbelievable.

 I’m willing to bet is one of those times you wish you hadn’t been right.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 21, 2018, 12:27:33 PM
The guy apparently blew himself up a block from my office. I wonder if I can get to work at all.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/mar/21/austin-bomb-suspect-blows-himself-up-us-media-report (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/mar/21/austin-bomb-suspect-blows-himself-up-us-media-report)

That is unbelievable.

 I’m willing to bet is one of those times you wish you hadn’t been right.

I think everyone who lives here is just relieved for it to be over. The fear has been palpable everywhere I went for the last couple of days. It dominated every conversation. I hope all the bombs are over and there isn't one out there still on sombody's doorstep who is away on vacation or something.

I had a patient this morning who said his sister used to babysit the bomber.  It's just closer to home than most of them.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on March 21, 2018, 01:20:39 PM
The fact is the FCC has totally regulated the development of our cell phone infrastructure.  They make sure NO PHONE WITH A HARDWARE ON/OFF switch can be sold.  True story.  The switch on your phone is under software control.  It can be controlled remotely.  A phone that is not like this cannot be sold.

My 5 year old Samsung Galaxy Mega has a removable battery.  I can hardware shut it down just by pulling the batt.  However, new Galaxies do not have removable batts.

The alternative if you do want to bring your Smart Phone with you on a bombing run is to drop it inside a Faraday Cage.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on March 21, 2018, 01:24:48 PM
Maybe he read NBL and/or the Diner or Xray Mike or TDos, and he twisted off.

If the Diner was in his Browser History we'll be FAMOUS!  :icon_sunny:

RE

Yeah, I can just imagine the headline:

Bizarre Doomer Cult Could Be Responsible For Most Mass Bombings and School Shootings
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on March 21, 2018, 01:34:34 PM
OK, I have the Crucial Quote:

Quote
Cassia Schultz, 21, told BuzzFeed News that she ran in the same conservative survivalist circles in high school as Conditt.

Schultz said they were both involved in a group called Righteous Invasion of Truth (RIOT), a Bible study and outdoors group for homeschooled kids that included monthly activities such as archery, gun skills, and water balloon fights. Conditt and his younger sister would usually attend the activities along with 15 to 20 other kids, according to Schultz.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/tasneemnashrulla/austin-bombing-suspect-mark-anthony-conditt?utm_term=.edQMJ9Kq9#.jn86AO4xO (https://www.buzzfeed.com/tasneemnashrulla/austin-bombing-suspect-mark-anthony-conditt?utm_term=.edQMJ9Kq9#.jn86AO4xO)

He was a Survivalist Doomer of the Mormon End Times variety.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 21, 2018, 01:41:55 PM
Never heard of that one. RIOT, huh?
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on March 21, 2018, 01:46:10 PM
Never heard of that one. RIOT, huh?

Creative acronym.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: K-Dog on March 21, 2018, 01:46:42 PM
Dad from Midvale Utah. Sounds Mormon to me. Not confirmed.

https://www.whitepages.com/name/Patrick-Conditt (https://www.whitepages.com/name/Patrick-Conditt)

Time will tell more and he may not fit the following scenario but I've wondered how long it would be before one of the dispossessed sons of a polygamous Mormon sect would pop a gasket.  The polygamous old men kick sons out of the tribe so they can have the daughters to themselves. They thump their book and call it right.  Eventually some drama has to result from their unstable and unrighteous polygamous family structure besides descendants who will be drooling adults retards at the 9th generation and a constant stream of disowned sons who have to leave Utah towns for employment at Wall-Marts far far away.   Such drama would, like black-on-black crime not be directed at those who created the problem but rather at random people who would be proxy targets for their rage.

My take is that most of these Mormon kids are raised in a religious cocoon that sort of makes them very naive in the ways of the world as kids. When they get into the harsh realities of BAU they sometimes get their sacred assumptions gobsmacked, and they have a real crisis of faith. All their closely held attachments to their world are ripped out by the roots, and they go nihilist and angry against the world.

This kid doesn't appear to be crazy....not as in schizophrenic . Maybe he read NBL and/or the Diner or Xray Mike or TDos, and he twisted off.

He wasn't on social media much apparently. That alone makes him a real outlier socially. It'll be interesting to see if they tell us what he was reading and watching on utoob, etc. Probably they won't.

Does my pre-smart flip phone have a remote switching thingie, or is that safe from the Feebs? Not that it matters much.

Lot to quote for this tidbit of info but the tidbit is important enough.  None of your phones are safe unless you can take out the battery and as time goes by that option will go away.  As an engineer I worked with another engineer at a large software company in Redmond WA.  Same one I took RE’s picture at.  This engineer worked at the FCC certifying which phones met certification standards and which did not.  Another thing he told me was the microphone has to meet standards.  We can’t have a microphone that can’t overhear a front seat conversation from the trunk of a car now can we.

The other relevant point is that the FCC was certifying phones as being surveillance ready before the twin towers fell.  The deep state wanted this toy for their use from day one.  This should not really be that shocking when you think about it.  The deep state has been in buisiness for a hundred years now and just as in any business there has been a commitment to grow the buisiness by the ambitious.

The deep state has NEVER respected privacy.  They get paid for ignoring it.  That will not change.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: K-Dog on March 21, 2018, 01:53:38 PM
Maybe he read NBL and/or the Diner or Xray Mike or TDos, and he twisted off.

If the Diner was in his Browser History we'll be FAMOUS!  :icon_sunny:

RE

Yeah, I can just imagine the headline:

Bizarre Doomer Cult Could Be Responsible For Most Mass Bombings and School Shootings

Don’t forget about our collaboration with Russia my Trotsky.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on March 21, 2018, 01:59:29 PM
Maybe he read NBL and/or the Diner or Xray Mike or TDos, and he twisted off.

If the Diner was in his Browser History we'll be FAMOUS!  :icon_sunny:

RE

Yeah, I can just imagine the headline:

Bizarre Doomer Cult Could Be Responsible For Most Mass Bombings and School Shootings

Don’t forget about our collaboration with Russia my Trotsky.

Maybe this will get me on Putin's Payroll? I could use some extra income.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Surly1 on March 21, 2018, 02:43:43 PM
The guy apparently blew himself up a block from my office. I wonder if I can get to work at all.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/mar/21/austin-bomb-suspect-blows-himself-up-us-media-report (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/mar/21/austin-bomb-suspect-blows-himself-up-us-media-report)

That is unbelievable.

 I’m willing to bet is one of those times you wish you hadn’t been right.

I think everyone who lives here is just relieved for it to be over. The fear has been palpable everywhere I went for the last couple of days. It dominated every conversation. I hope all the bombs are over and there isn't one out there still on sombody's doorstep who is away on vacation or something.

I had a patient this morning who said his sister used to babysit the bomber.  It's just closer to home than most of them.

This is the textbook definition of terrorism as I understand it.

I look for the averting of eyes, the clearing of throats, and the rapid change of subject on the part of the MSM.

Look, Stormy's tits!
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on March 21, 2018, 02:57:17 PM
The guy apparently blew himself up a block from my office. I wonder if I can get to work at all.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/mar/21/austin-bomb-suspect-blows-himself-up-us-media-report (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/mar/21/austin-bomb-suspect-blows-himself-up-us-media-report)

That is unbelievable.

 I’m willing to bet is one of those times you wish you hadn’t been right.

I think everyone who lives here is just relieved for it to be over. The fear has been palpable everywhere I went for the last couple of days. It dominated every conversation. I hope all the bombs are over and there isn't one out there still on sombody's doorstep who is away on vacation or something.

I had a patient this morning who said his sister used to babysit the bomber.  It's just closer to home than most of them.

This is the textbook definition of terrorism as I understand it.

I look for the averting of eyes, the clearing of throats, and the rapid change of subject on the part of the MSM.

Look, Stormy's tits!

I don't think this will drop out of the Newz Cycle all that fast.  Has too much juicy stuff that can pull ratings.  Especially if there is a lot of material in his home to sort through.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: K-Dog on March 22, 2018, 12:20:05 AM
I've tried to find out about him but nothing really weird is jumping out so far.  No weirdness that a lot of us have not experienced.  I have the religious family background myself but I never wanted to blow people up because of it.  His political ideas seemed within a normal range though the media is trying to spin them as extreme.  People say he must have snapped.  I'm finding it odd, though people usually do say the perpetrator was never that kind of guy.  It is said that he liked to debate but it must not have been of the healthy kind where you examine another's point of view.  It must have been the kind where debate means defeating another at all cost.  Debate where winnin not lernin matters.  I doubt he would have hung around here five minutes.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on March 22, 2018, 12:24:43 AM
I've tried to find out about him but nothing really weird is jumping out so far.  No weirdness that a lot of us have not experienced.  I have the religious family background myself but I never wanted to blow people up because of it.  His political ideas seemed within a normal range though the media is trying to spin them as extreme.  People say he must have snapped.  I'm finding it odd, though people usually do say the perpetrator was never that kind of guy.  It is said that he liked to debate but it must not have been of the healthy kind where you examine another's point of view.  It must have been the kind where debate means defeating another at all cost.  Debate where winnin not lernin matters.  I doubt he would have hung around here five minutes.

I think the whole "he SNAPPED" concept is kind of flawed.  I'll write more about that maybe tomorrow.  Getting kind of beat now.  Need a nap.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: K-Dog on March 22, 2018, 08:33:44 AM
I've tried to find out about him but nothing really weird is jumping out so far.  No weirdness that a lot of us have not experienced.  I have the religious family background myself but I never wanted to blow people up because of it.  His political ideas seemed within a normal range though the media is trying to spin them as extreme.  People say he must have snapped.  I'm finding it odd, though people usually do say the perpetrator was never that kind of guy.  It is said that he liked to debate but it must not have been of the healthy kind where you examine another's point of view.  It must have been the kind where debate means defeating another at all cost.  Debate where winnin not lernin matters.  I doubt he would have hung around here five minutes.

I think the whole "he SNAPPED" concept is kind of flawed.  I'll write more about that maybe tomorrow.  Getting kind of beat now.  Need a nap.

RE

It happens all the time.

"He would have never done a thing like that.", "It's not like him", "He was such a nice young man."

Perhaps people like to say he snapped because it lets them off a psychological hook.  If they had known they would have done something; but how could they have known would be their thoughts.  A little mental dance so they can feel good about not doing anything.  Not that anyone could, would, or have even been at all able to see a mental cesspool under a particular shooters skull to begin with in the brief encounters of modern life. 

Someone who knew a shooter does not have to feel bad for reasons which make sense.  Just knowing a murderous bastard could be enough to make you feel dirty.   Saying "He Snapped" then could make one feel better even when there is no good reason to feel bad in the first place.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 22, 2018, 09:42:34 AM
I've tried to find out about him but nothing really weird is jumping out so far.  No weirdness that a lot of us have not experienced.  I have the religious family background myself but I never wanted to blow people up because of it.  His political ideas seemed within a normal range though the media is trying to spin them as extreme.  People say he must have snapped.  I'm finding it odd, though people usually do say the perpetrator was never that kind of guy.  It is said that he liked to debate but it must not have been of the healthy kind where you examine another's point of view.  It must have been the kind where debate means defeating another at all cost.  Debate where winnin not lernin matters.  I doubt he would have hung around here five minutes.

Same here.

As my wife says, home-schooled kids tend to be well educated but poorly socialized. I read that he lost his job a few months back. The employer's statement was that he was given chances to correct whatever the issues were, and he wasn't compliant. Who knows, on that. He was very young still, and probably took that firing hard. Maybe thought he was in the right (and maybe he was, dunno). For a conscientious person, getting terminated is a blow.

His belief system might have made him unpopular among the typical young crowd here. It's a party town.

I wish I understood better. Anyone who is okay with causing harm to total strangers as an act of self-expression has a big personality defect. No empathy. Maybe a type of sociopath.

I'd guess he was an Enneagram Type 1.

Type One in Brief

Ones are conscientious and ethical, with a strong sense of right and wrong. They are teachers, crusaders, and advocates for change: always striving to improve things, but afraid of making a mistake. Well-organized, orderly, and fastidious, they try to maintain high standards, but can slip into being critical and perfectionistic. They typically have problems with resentment and impatience. At their Best: wise, discerning, realistic, and noble. Can be morally heroic.

    Basic Fear: Of being corrupt/evil, defective
    Basic Desire: To be good, to have integrity, to be balanced
    Enneagram One with a Nine-Wing: "The Idealist"
    Enneagram One with a Two-Wing: "The Advocate"

Key Motivations: Want to be right, to strive higher and improve everything, to be consistent with their ideals, to justify themselves, to be beyond criticism so as not to be condemned by anyone.
The Meaning of the Arrows (in brief)

When moving in their Direction of Disintegration (stress), methodical Ones suddenly become moody and irrational at Four. However, when moving in their Direction of Integration (growth), angry, critical Ones become more spontaneous and joyful, like healthy Sevens. Learn more about the arrows.

Examples: Confucius, Plato, Salahuddin Ayyubi, Joan of Arc, Sir Thomas More, Mahatma Gandhi, Pope John Paul II, Nelson Mandela, Margaret Thatcher, Prince Charles, Kate Middleton, Duchess of Cambridge, Jimmy Carter, Michelle Obama, Al Gore, Hilary Clinton, Rudy Giuliani, Elliot Spitzer, Justice Sandra Day O’Connor, Osama bin Laden, George Bernard Shaw, Thoreau, Dr. Jack Kevorkian, Anita Roddick (The Body Shop), Martha Stewart, Chef Thomas Keller, Michio Kushi (macrobiotics), George Harrison, Joan Baez, Celine Dion, Ralph Nader, Noam Chomsky, Bill Moyers, George F. Will, William F. Buckley, Keith Olbermann, Jerry Seinfeld, Bill Maher, Tina Fey, Katherine Hepburn, Maggie Smith, Emma Thompson, Julie Andrews, Vanessa Redgrave, Jane Fonda, Meryl Streep, Harrison Ford, Helen Hunt, Captain “Sully” Sullenberger, “Mary Poppins,” “Mr. Spock,” SNL’s “The Church Lady”
Type One Overview

We have named personality type One The Reformer because Ones have a “sense of mission” that leads them to want to improve the world in various ways, using whatever degree of influence they have. They strive to overcome adversity—particularly moral adversity—so that the human spirit can shine through and make a difference. They strive after “higher values,” even at the cost of great personal sacrifice.

History is full of Ones who have left comfortable lives to do something extraordinary because they felt that something higher was calling them. During the Second World War, Raoul Wallenburg left a comfortable middle-class life to work for the protection of thousands of European Jews from invading Nazis. In India, Gandhi left behind his wife and family and life as a successful lawyer to become an itinerant advocate of Indian independence and non-violent social changes. Joan of Arc left her village in France to restore the throne to the Dauphin and to expel the English from the country. The idealism of each of these Ones has inspired millions.

Ones are people of practical action—they wish to be useful in the best sense of the word. On some level of consciousness, they feel that they “have a mission” to fulfill in life, if only to try their best to reduce the disorder they see in their environment.

Although Ones have a strong sense of purpose, they also typically feel that they have to justify their actions to themselves, and often to others as well. This orientation causes Ones to spend a lot of time thinking about the consequences of their actions, as well as about how to keep from acting contrary to their convictions. Because of this, Ones often persuade themselves that they are “head” types, rationalists who proceed only on logic and objective truth. But, the real picture is somewhat different: Ones are actually activists who are searching for an acceptable rationale for what they feel they must do. They are people of instinct and passion who use convictions and judgments to control and direct themselves and their actions.

In the effort to stay true to their principles, Ones resist being affected by their instinctual drives, consciously not giving in to them or expressing them too freely. The result is a personality type that has problems with repression, resistance, and aggression. They are usually seen by others as highly self- controlled, even rigid, although this is not how Ones experience themselves. It seems to them that they are sitting on a cauldron of passions and desires, and they had better “keep the lid on” lest they and everyone else around them regret it.

Cassandra is a therapist in private practice who recalls the difficulty this caused her in her youth.

    “I remember in high school getting feedback that I had no feelings. Inside, I felt my feelings intensely and yet I just couldn’t let them out as intensely as I felt them. Even now, if I have a conflict with a friend and need to address an issue, I rehearse ahead of time how to express clearly what I want, need, and observe, and yet not be harsh or blaming in my anger which is often scathing.”

Ones believe that being strict with themselves (and eventually becoming “perfect”) will justify them in their own eyes and in the eyes of others. But by attempting to create their own brand of perfection, they often create their own personal hell. Instead of agreeing with the statement in Genesis that God saw what He had created, “and it was good,” Ones intensely feel that “It wasn’t—there obviously have been some mistakes here!” This orientation makes it difficult for them to trust their inner guidance—indeed, to trust life—so Ones come to rely heavily on their superego, a learned voice from their childhood, to guide them toward “the greater good” which they so passionately seek. When Ones have gotten completely entranced in their personality, there is little distinction between them and this severe, unforgiving voice. Separating from it and seeing its genuine strengths and limitations is what growth for Ones is about.

(from The Wisdom of the Enneagram, p. 99-100)
Listen: Don Riso Discusses Type One
Type One—Levels of Development

Healthy Levels

Level 1 (At Their Best): Become extraordinarily wise and discerning. By accepting what is, they become transcendentally realistic, knowing the best action to take in each moment. Humane, inspiring, and hopeful: the truth will be heard.

Level 2: Conscientious with strong personal convictions: they have an intense sense of right and wrong, personal religious and moral values. Wish to be rational, reasonable, self-disciplined, mature, moderate in all things.

Level 3: Extremely principled, always want to be fair, objective, and ethical: truth and justice primary values. Sense of responsibility, personal integrity, and of having a higher purpose often make them teachers and witnesses to the truth.

Average Levels

Level 4: Dissatisfied with reality, they become high-minded idealists, feeling that it is up to them to improve everything: crusaders, advocates, critics. Into "causes" and explaining to others how things "ought" to be.

Level 5: Afraid of making a mistake: everything must be consistent with their ideals. Become orderly and well-organized, but impersonal, puritanical, emotionally constricted, rigidly keeping their feelings and impulses in check. Often workaholics—"anal-compulsive," punctual, pedantic, and fastidious.

Level 6: Highly critical both of self and others: picky, judgmental, perfectionistic. Very opinionated about everything: correcting people and badgering them to "do the right thing"—as they see it. Impatient, never satisfied with anything unless it is done according to their prescriptions. Moralizing, scolding, abrasive, and indignantly angry.

Unhealthy Levels

Level 7: Can be highly dogmatic, self-righteous, intolerant, and inflexible. Begin dealing in absolutes: they alone know "The Truth." Everyone else is wrong: very severe in judgments, while rationalizing own actions.

Level 8: Become obsessive about imperfection and the wrongdoing of others, although they may fall into contradictory actions, hypocritically doing the opposite of what they preach.

Level 9: Become condemnatory toward others, punitive and cruel to rid themselves of wrongdoers. Severe depressions, nervous breakdowns, and suicide attempts are likely. Generally corresponds to the Obsessive-Compulsive and Depressive personality disorders.

Compatibility with Other Types
Type 1 in relationship with type:
1     2     3     4     5     6     7     8     9
Misidentification with Other Types
Type 1 compared with type:
2     3     4     5     6     7     8     9
Addictions

Excessive use of diets, vitamins, and cleansing techniques (fasts, diet pills, enemas). Under-eating for self-control: in extreme cases anorexia and bulimia. Alcohol to relieve tension.
 
Personal Growth Recommendations
for Enneagram Type Ones

    Learn to relax. Take some time for yourself, without feeling that everything is up to you or that what you do not accomplish will result in chaos and disaster. Mercifully, the salvation of the world does not depend on you alone, even though you may sometimes feel it does.
    You have a lot to teach others and are probably a good teacher, but do not expect others to change immediately. What is obvious to you may not be as obvious to them, especially if they are not used to being as self-disciplined and objective about themselves as you are about yourself. Many people may also want to do what is right and may agree with you in principle but for various reasons simply cannot change right away. The fact that others do not change immediately according to your prescriptions does not mean that they will not change sometime in the future. Your words and above all, your example may do more good than you realize, although they may take longer than you expect. So have patience.
    It is easy for you to work yourself up into a lather about the wrongdoings of others. And it may sometimes be true that they are wrong. But what is it to you? Your irritation with them will do nothing to help them see another way of being. Similarly, beware of your constant irritation with your own "shortcomings." Does your own harsh self-criticism really help you to improve? Or does it simply make you tense, nervous, and self-doubting? Learn to recognize the attacks of your superego and how they undermine rather than help you.
    It is important for you to get in touch with your feelings, particularly your unconscious impulses. You may find that you are uneasy with your emotions and your sexual and aggressive impulses—in short, with the messy human things that make us human. It might be beneficial to keep a journal or to get into some kind of group therapy or other group work both to develop your emotions and to see that others will not condemn you for having human needs and limitations.
    Your Achilles' heel is your self-righteous anger. You get angry easily and are offended by what seems to you to be the perverse refusal of others to do the right thing—as you have defined it. Try to step back and see that your anger alienates people so that they cannot hear many of the good things you have to say. Further, your own repressed anger may well be giving you an ulcer or high blood pressure and is a harbinger of worse things to come.



 
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 22, 2018, 03:25:49 PM
Some bits from the bomber's long rambling confession are leaking, although it has not been made public.

He realized he fucked up when he went into the Fedex store, and was angry with himself for doing something he figured was going to get him caught. He didn't want to get caught, and he wanted to blow up more people. He was disappointed to be stopped before he killed more people.

He said he wished he was sorry, but that he wasn't sorry. He said he thought he'd been a psychopath since he was a child.

The Fedex bomb that did not explode and was secured by police was addressed to some young woman at her work downtown in a day spa. She says she never knew him at all and has no idea why she might have been a target. He had a list of future targets (and a lot more bombs) Nothing has been said about how he chose the victims.

He was planning to blow himself up inside a crowded McDonalds if the cops closed in, but he didn't get the chance, as it turned out.

All this according to the local radio jocks.

They also said that the cops just now released one of his two roommates after grilling him since yesterday morning. The other roommate was questioned yesterday at the house they lived in, but was not detained.

I didn't figure the confession would be made public, but maybe it will be. I'd like to view it. It's in the form of a 28 minute cell phone video, and he made it only hours prior to his death.
Title: 🔫 Tens of thousands expected to participate in March for Our Lives
Post by: RE on March 24, 2018, 12:37:35 AM
10's of 1000s.  Whoop-dee-doo.  When they can pull a 1,000,000, they might get some attention.  Might.

RE

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tens-thousands-expected-participate-march-our-lives-n859616 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tens-thousands-expected-participate-march-our-lives-n859616)

Tens of thousands expected to participate in March for Our Lives

"Let us pray with our legs, let us march in unison to the rhythm of justice, because I say enough is enough," said one Parkland shooting survivor.
by Phil McCausland / Mar.23.2018 / 2:35 PM ET / Updated 4:34 PM ET

(https://media1.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2018_12/2374331/180323-marjory-stoneham-thurgood-marshall-david-ew-455p_63f7a2b9ee3698205b6ac6ee211c5b94.focal-1000x500.jpg)
David Hogg, a senior from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, speaks during a rally with Thurgood Marshall Academy students in advance of Saturday's March for Our Lives event, in Washington on March 22, 2018.Eric Thayer / Reuters

Tens of thousands of kids across the country are expected to participate in rallies Saturday as part of the March for Our Lives movement that was born out of the Valentine’s Day school shooting in Parkland, Florida, that killed 17 students and staff members.

The main event will occur in Washington, where student survivors from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School will lead a march down Pennsylvania Avenue to the White House.
Marjory Stoneman Douglas students arrive in Washington for 'March for Our Lives'
01:29

The students intend to send a message to President Donald Trump and Congress and demand that their politicians pursue gun legislation to make it harder to acquire firearms. Their goal is to stem “the epidemic of mass schools shootings that has become all too familiar," according to their mission statement.

Demetri Hoth, a senior at Stoneman Douglas, spoke alongside Florida politicians and other students from D.C., Chicago and Minneapolis at a press conference at Capitol Hill on Friday.

“I stand before you here today to invite you, students and parents across America: Let us pray with our legs, let us march in unison to the rhythm of justice, because I say enough is enough," Hoth said.

March for Our Lives events Friday included a voter registration drive, a concert and a candlelight vigil.
 Lori Alhadeff and her husband Ilan Alhadeff, right, hold a picture of their daughter Alyssa Alhadeff, a Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shooting victim, during a news conference on gun control March 23, 2018 on Capitol Hill in Washington. Alex Wong / Getty Images

A Rock the Vote event — hosted by the National Education Association and run in partnership with the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence and the National Urban League — took place Friday at 6 p.m.

A benefit concert at 6:30 p.m. was scheduled to include a number of notable artists, including Fall Out Boy, G-Eazy, Bebe Rexha, Lizzo and others. At 7 p.m., the Washington National Cathedral will host an interfaith prayer vigils for those who planned to participate in the march.

Prior to all three events, some Parkland students met with members of Congress and former Vice President Joe Biden in private meetings, while others shared their mass shooting experiences at the Newseum.

All seemed to push for the same thing, however: more restrictive gun laws.

“Stop being coerced by the NRA,” Hoth said, speaking to Congress. “I urge you propose meaningful gun safety laws, vote yea to bills that advance gun control, and sing along with us to the melody of justice, never again, never again, never again.”
Related
OPINION: How mass shootings are affecting America's children — and how we can help

The Washington Metropolitan Police have limited the event to three entrances where participants may join the march on Saturday. Organizers expect around 30,000 people to attend Saturday’s rally.

“The support we've gotten is unimaginable,” said Casey Sherman, a Stoneman Douglas junior and one of the main organizers. “So we're really excited for this Saturday: It's going to be incredible. I can't even begin to tell you how proud I am of all the work that we and students across the country and across the world have been doing.”

Sherman said that approximately 20 Stoneman Douglas students had worked to organize the march, but he said many more would be pitching in on Saturday.
 Alfonso Calderon, a junior from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, speaks during a rally with Thurgood Marshall Academy students in advance of Saturday's March for Our Lives event, in Washington on March 22, 2018. Eric Thayer / Reuters

Sen. Chris Van Hollen, D-Md., told MSNBC that the country owed a debt to this group of Parkland students, who he planned to meet prior to the march.

“I’m going to look them in the eye and say, thank you to the students of Parkland and the students around the country who are finally changing the conversation here on Capitol Hill,” he said.

And those students aren’t holding back. The March for Our Lives website allows attendees to print out a “price tag” of $1.05 to wear at the event. That price is the amount the NRA contributed to Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla., divided by the number of students in Florida, which organizers argue is how much each student is worth to the two-term senator.

The event also aims to be a massive voter registration push, as participants are encouraged to download “Voter Registration Toolkits” that are state specific and ensure those they know join the voter rolls.

While tens of thousands of marchers are expected to join in throughout the United States — with demonstrations planned in Boston, Chicago, Baltimore, Los Angeles — there are a handful of solidarity events organized on Friday and Saturday in countries across the globe. Rallies are planned in Israel, New Zealand, Australia, the U.K. Japan, Belgium, India, France and Chile.

Everytown for Gun Safety and Giffords Courage, gun control advocacy groups, are helping the sister marches throughout the country coordinate with the March for Our Lives movement, and they’re also acting as advisers to the teen organizers.

“We've really been getting a lot of advice and help in that area from people who have that experience,” Sherman said. “Of course we're advising [on] everything … but we've really been focusing on those last kind of little final pieces ... that'll make our march so much more.”

A number of celebrities showered praise on the students. Some, including Miley Cyrus, Lin-Manuel Miranda, Ariana Grande, Demi Lovato, Common and Ben Platt, also planned to join them on Saturday.

Meanwhile, back in Parkland, their teachers and parents also applauded the students’ efforts.

Gregory Pittman, an American history teacher, said at a Stoneman Douglas pep rally on Tuesday that he was proud of his students, as they had taken what they’d learned in the classroom and applied it in the real world. He believed that this movement would only continue to grow.

“This is not the end of what they're going to do,” he said. “This is only the beginning both in Florida and definitely in Washington. We've only started in Washington.”
Title: Re: 🔫 Tens of thousands expected to participate in March for Our Lives
Post by: Surly1 on March 24, 2018, 12:48:44 PM
10's of 1000s.  Whoop-dee-doo.  When they can pull a 1,000,000, they might get some attention.  Might.

RE

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tens-thousands-expected-participate-march-our-lives-n859616 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tens-thousands-expected-participate-march-our-lives-n859616)

Tens of thousands expected to participate in March for Our Lives

"Let us pray with our legs, let us march in unison to the rhythm of justice, because I say enough is enough," said one Parkland shooting survivor.

Often wrong, but NEVER in doubt. Over 800,000 in DC. Many saying the event was larger than Dup's inauguration, even though he instructed the Park webcams to be pointed away from the crowds. Plenty of other images, though. In Norfolk the event was far larger than the women's march. Police told organizers that this was the largest march ever in Norfolk. Contrary was there and got some pix.

(https://scontent.forf1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/29355216_10155971182135552_5663352797377856990_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=v1%3AAeGNbfOc7Xnx6rmVFToMcLENMV-_9dwME0n9ay7ivh0BfPZfRqm3uzLvNjPX9nnZ02QRgPSqh29y7REN8ddy3NNrnfkv9XSwDL2HeUVDLJsZuw&oh=1cb9b411fe4a61b1d5f849e2a26c42d6&oe=5B2B9195)

(https://scontent.forf1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/28947936_2487155977971084_66431827828866667_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=v1%3AAeGAIx3-c0x8aGJ8qIXIaVxHg5bOkJLQBJOtDujNqPP6MHXbfUPzB7qwblYJiM8MvAprGcyTK1I2Yz8NcDnbBiLV5nhYrs2RIF1Txg0vESWLFw&oh=c7da8dceb7222674683b2aadcb4afbc6&oe=5B3C876F)

Norfolk
(https://scontent.forf1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29594940_10160333520685637_172146544368275535_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=v1%3AAeGr-_Je24MOn_fLC4f7s8iQQAi5IrXUA2hTg_V7XtbnvbKfHxpzJW9vcUzeyylP0mhs4RfwyzGDqytSNMmvgYG5AL1eJdhs-sTif9sT_c5ynw&oh=74e1d6c9fb54e5c179802beb17d03ccf&oe=5B2B5A6F) (https://scontent.forf1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29511198_10160333520905637_5871825632381685165_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=v1%3AAeFyyhp6AzfqcnCLal2AiOdkMuXYOnkzdMETeAitij8VvVyUosOQhGNK62RYHZKC8sw0W8HYYV0ROCMJ8GsCCKFppxlon5dX8qgSCpxvlZjcbg&oh=d1b92a489fe8af73ac209453a5607f1a&oe=5B74ADB9)


(https://scontent.forf1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29511060_10160332374185637_6710050510372328412_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=v1%3AAeEyOjMn1SJMfFaZo9fcpV4GrCpuX-U-4z9CObuqI154onGSKkZS6aRcltdVP4t083EBCkiegcfTDKKQoYcOUy0pjCw_E7INP496idLxY0PjRQ&oh=046c459360c83a82607b33f7f8b8f105&oe=5B386ABC)

(https://scontent.forf1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/28947684_10211375238273117_675328826958110402_o.jpg?_nc_eui2=v1%3AAeHmT5bUR5w-GUy5d0tE7fyrEXsjYUikImPNgWJhm_6tNIaxhf0eXbbHJ0WDLqwnXTHVwhf0PybMyRqqra1z2dJZWgPzf6IjuVb4uk8h-NOfpQ&oh=2a679b5e807440eaf1bd4adb4dfff22e&oe=5B75B68B)

(https://scontent.forf1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/29063883_10211374923345244_1853504373960724818_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=v1%3AAeHeUK8qZAjOS8FKN64DK3FJ7Jn57b5L5tDxK2GS6VhrAVEa-P9a1AskEomL3Si-8o0KxPU8vL2UHtAxfbuO52ej2p-Z1QuPt0N568K9pKEEvw&oh=c3cf8d1dbbe8d269342d80d56551e942&oe=5B30A019)
What you can barely see is the head of the parade meeting the tail, a route of more than 20 blocks!
Title: Re: 🔫 Tens of thousands expected to participate in March for Our Lives
Post by: RE on March 24, 2018, 12:59:07 PM
10's of 1000s.  Whoop-dee-doo.  When they can pull a 1,000,000, they might get some attention.  Might.

RE

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tens-thousands-expected-participate-march-our-lives-n859616 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tens-thousands-expected-participate-march-our-lives-n859616)

Tens of thousands expected to participate in March for Our Lives

"Let us pray with our legs, let us march in unison to the rhythm of justice, because I say enough is enough," said one Parkland shooting survivor.

Often wrong, but NEVER in doubt. Over 800,000 in DC.

Didn't crack the 1M mark.  I was right as usual.  You can't stand being wrong all the time, can you? :P

Also, it won't make any difference on legislation, they all go home tomorrow and it's BAU on Monday in CONgress.

RE
Title: Re: 🔫 Tens of thousands expected to participate in March for Our Lives
Post by: Surly1 on March 24, 2018, 01:27:11 PM
10's of 1000s.  Whoop-dee-doo.  When they can pull a 1,000,000, they might get some attention.  Might.

RE

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tens-thousands-expected-participate-march-our-lives-n859616 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tens-thousands-expected-participate-march-our-lives-n859616)

Tens of thousands expected to participate in March for Our Lives

"Let us pray with our legs, let us march in unison to the rhythm of justice, because I say enough is enough," said one Parkland shooting survivor.

Often wrong, but NEVER in doubt. Over 800,000 in DC.

Didn't crack the 1M mark.  I was right as usual.  You can't stand being wrong all the time, can you? :P

Also, it won't make any difference on legislation, they all go home tomorrow and it's BAU on Monday in CONgress.

RE

They got all day attention all day on Cable news, you old troll.

I wouldn't know anything about being wrong. But I'll give you this: they won't change any minds.

They'll elect new representatives.
Title: Re: 🔫 Tens of thousands expected to participate in March for Our Lives
Post by: RE on March 24, 2018, 01:35:18 PM
10's of 1000s.  Whoop-dee-doo.  When they can pull a 1,000,000, they might get some attention.  Might.

RE

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tens-thousands-expected-participate-march-our-lives-n859616 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tens-thousands-expected-participate-march-our-lives-n859616)

Tens of thousands expected to participate in March for Our Lives

"Let us pray with our legs, let us march in unison to the rhythm of justice, because I say enough is enough," said one Parkland shooting survivor.

Often wrong, but NEVER in doubt. Over 800,000 in DC.

Didn't crack the 1M mark.  I was right as usual.  You can't stand being wrong all the time, can you? :P

Also, it won't make any difference on legislation, they all go home tomorrow and it's BAU on Monday in CONgress.

RE

They got all day attention all day on Cable news, you old troll.

I wouldn't know anything about being wrong. But I'll give you this: they won't change any minds.

They'll elect new representatives.

That is what *I* have been saying, YOU are the one who nay-says that the Repugnants are too well entrenched with Gerrymandering districts!!!  ::)  You're worse than Ambrose flipping argument sides on a post by post basis.

However, even if both houses of CONgress get flipped Blue, the new Pols will also be bought off by Big Money.

RE
Title: March for Our Lives could be the biggest single-day protest in D.C.'s history
Post by: Surly1 on March 25, 2018, 07:16:33 AM
You're STILL wrong.

March for Our Lives could be the biggest single-day protest in D.C.'s history (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/03/24/march-our-lives-could-become-biggest-single-day-protest-d-c-nations-history/455675002/)

, USA TODAYPublished 1:00 p.m. ET March 24, 2018 | Updated 7:05 a.m. ET March 25, 2018

From Washington D.C. to Paris, young voices resound in protest against gun violence. USA TODAY

LINKEDIN 67COMMENTMORE

March for Our Lives organizers estimate 800,000 protesters attended the gun-control demonstration in Washington, D.C. on Saturday.

If they're correct, the event would be the largest single-day protest in the history of the nation's capital. The total is bigger than  the inaugural Women's March, which brought 500,000 to D.C., according to the Washington Post

The number doesn't include large rallies in cities such as Boston, Houston, Minneapolis and Parkland, Fla., the site of the Valentine's Day attack at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School that left 17 people dead. 

Organizers of the March for Our Lives rally had hoped to exceed the half million protesters mark. The Women's March, which took place the day after Trump's inauguration, is considered the biggest one-day protest in recorded history, according to the Washington Post.

Other large protests in D.C. history include the 500,000 to 600,000 people who demonstrated against the Vietnam War in D.C. in 1969. The March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom on Aug. 28, 1963, drew about 250,000 people to D.C. where Martin Luther King Jr. delivered his famous "I have a dream" speech. And the Million Man March in 1995 garnered estimates of between 450,000 to 1.1 million people, according to the Encyclopedia Brittanica

Title: At 1 million plus strong, March for Our Lives rallies make powerful statement
Post by: Surly1 on March 25, 2018, 07:22:10 AM
Let's pile on. Feel free to have some evidence with that crow y0u're eating.   :icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen:

At 1 million plus strong, March for Our Lives rallies make powerful statement

At 1 million plus strong, March for Our Lives rallies make powerful statement

Christal Hayes, David Jackson, Ashley Collins and Alia Dastagir, USA TODAYPublished 12:01 a.m. ET March 24, 2018 | Updated 12:08 a.m. ET March 25, 2018
 
 
CLOSE

Protestors make their way onto Pennsylvania Avenue for the "March for Our Lives" in this time-lapse video. Jasper Colt/USA TODAY

LINKEDIN 251COMMENTMORE

Well over 1 million students — and their supporters — packed the streets in Washington, D.C., and around the globe Saturday to make a powerful statement against gun violence and call on lawmakers to pass stricter laws or face their wrath at the polls.

Busload after busload filled the nation's capital with students from across the country, including some from as far away as California and Minnesota, for the March for Our Lives, a rally announced just days after a Valentine's Day shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla.

In passionate speeches, students from Marjory Stoneman gave a rallying cry to wild cheers from the thousands assembled along Pennsylvania Avenue. 

"We are going to make this the voting issue," said David Hogg, a Stoneman Douglas student and organizer of the march. "We are going to take this to every election, to every state, and every city. We are going to make sure the best people get in our elections to run not as politicians, but as Americans." 

tearful Emma Gonzalez, whose speech at a Fort Lauderdale rally three days after the Valentine's Day shooting galvanized the student movement, paid tribute to all of her fallen friends who "would never again" do the simplest things in life. She then stood silently for several minutes before the crowd, a painful hush marking the little over six minutes it took for the gunman to snuff out 17 lives.

"Fight for your lives before it is someone else's job," Gonzalez implored.

Cameron Kasky, another Stoneman Douglas student, said the student movement's message to politicians was simple: "Either represent the people or get out.

"The people are demanding a law banning the sale of assault weapons, the people demand we prohibit the sale of high-capacity magazines, the people demand universal background checks," Kasky said. "Stand for us or beware. The voters are coming.“

The young Stoneman Douglas students, many of whom are just reaching voting age, vowed to work to make reducing gun violence the central issue of their generation.

Polls show that Americans are increasingly in favor of stricter gun laws. By almost 2-1, 61%-33%, they say tightening gun-control laws and background checks would prevent more mass shootings in the United States, according to a USA TODAY/ Suffolk Poll published last month. Even wider margins of Americans say semiautomatic weapons such as the AR-15, which was used in the Florida shooting, should be banned.

But Americans have little confidence that Congress will act. Fewer than one in five, 19%, say the odds are excellent or good. More than three in four; 76%, rate them as fair or poor.

Still, members of the student-led movement insist their generation can push the nation toward tougher gun laws.

 

“This is not a red vs. blue issue,” said Sarah Chadwick, a Stoneman Douglas student. “This is a moral issue. And to the politicians who believe their right to own a gun comes before our lives, get ready to be voted out by us, the future."

 

Many of the Florida students took particularly sharp jabs at their junior senator, Republican Marco Rubio, who they note has received about $3.3 million in campaign contributions from the NRA and gun lobby during his political career.

The students wore orange price tags of $1.05, the amount Rubio has received from the gun lobby divided by the number of students in Florida, to suggest that's how much they were worth to him.

Stoneman Douglas students and brothers Juan and Santiago Munera said they were tired but determined as they walked on Pennsylvania Avenue toward the main stage. They arrived in Washington two hours before the rally after a grueling 23-hour bus ride from Florida.

Juan Munera, 17, said he's been inspired by his Stoneman Douglas peers that they can help make change. “Before the shooting we didn’t think we could make a difference as teens,” he said. "Now we’re trying to change gun laws.” 

 

About 800 sister marches were scheduled in every U.S. state and across several continents. About 800,000 descended on the nation's capital, exceeding expectations including many from Parkland.

In big cities, including Boston, Chicago and New York, massive crowds gathered for the sister marches. Smaller cities, such as Cincinnati and Red Bank, N.J., also saw large crowds assemble.

"Our voices are being stifled," said 17-year-old Rasleen Krupp, who spoke to marchers at the Cincinnati rally. "At the end of this movement, we will be saving our own lives. But this is only the first mile."

In Iowa City, Iowa, where 10-inches of snow was in Saturday's forecast, elementary student Margalit Frank spoke to a crowd of several hundred people.

“I’m 12 years old, and I don’t want to be murdered,” Frank, a student at Longfellow Elementary School said. “I don’t want to wake up every day and wonder if today is the day someone shoots up my school."

Matt Collins, a gun owner and defense contractor from Fairfax, Va., said he once bristled at calls for stricter gun laws, but repeated school shootings changed his mind. Collins said he has many friends who disagree with him.

“I have been frustrated, every time something like this happens, there is a cycle,” Collins said. “I own a gun, I believe in the Second Amendment. I think there are measures short of repealing the second amendment that can make everyone safer.”

The march organizers also recruited teens from urban areas to speak about how gun violence impacts their lives.

Edna Chavez, a student at Los Angeles' Manuel Arts High School Living whose older brother was gunned down in front of their home in 2007, said gun violence has become too normalized in neighborhoods like her own.

“I have lived in South L.A. all my life and have lost many loved ones to gun violence,” Chavez said. “This is normal — normal to the point I’ve learned to duck from bullets before I learned to read."

The Florida shooting instantly reignited the gun-control debate. The students in Parkland — who spoke with a loud voice and amassed an enormous following in the hours and days after the shooting — seemed to disrupt the typical cycle after an attack and vowed to not let the issue fade from the headlines.

Within a month of the rampage, several companies cut ties with the National Rifle Association, students from 3,000 schools held a nationwide walkout, and Florida's governor signed a comprehensive bill that included tightening gun laws.

Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced Friday he was proposing new regulations that would effectively ban so-called bump-stock devices that allow rifles to mimic fully automatic machine gun fire. Bump stocks were not used in the Parkland shooting but were used by the gunman who opened fire on Las Vegas concertgoers, killing 58 and injuring hundreds more, in the October mass shooting in that city.

"We applaud the many courageous young Americans exercising their First Amendment rights today," Lindsay Walters, White House deputy press secretary, said in a statement.

Title: Re: At 1 million plus strong, March for Our Lives rallies make powerful statement
Post by: RE on March 25, 2018, 07:45:19 AM
Let's pile on. Feel free to have some evidence with that crow y0u're eating.

Wow.  Crowd size estimate went up 200K from one post to the next! lol.  I guess how big the crowd size was depends on your spin.  ::)

However, it was a good size turnout, but as I said everybody goes home today and it's BAU on Monday.  You keep telling me there will be no "Blue Wave" because the Repugnants have everything sewed up so tight with Gerrymandering and funding from the Kochs.  Which is it here chief?

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 25, 2018, 08:39:39 AM
This is a turning point I believe. Sentiment has fundamentally changed, and that matters. It will lead to some changes. Perhaps not radical changes, but the days of nothing happening are over. More shootings will lead to more activism.
Title: Re: At 1 million plus strong, March for Our Lives rallies make powerful statement
Post by: Surly1 on March 25, 2018, 08:55:34 AM
Let's pile on. Feel free to have some evidence with that crow y0u're eating.

Wow.  Crowd size estimate went up 200K from one post to the next! lol.  I guess how big the crowd size was depends on your spin.  ::)

However, it was a good size turnout, but as I said everybody goes home today and it's BAU on Monday.  You keep telling me there will be no "Blue Wave" because the Repugnants have everything sewed up so tight with Gerrymandering and funding from the Kochs.  Which is it here chief?

RE

Jesus. Are you strung out on heroin again?

Yesterday's estimate in DC was @80,000. Today's estimate for DC was @800,000. Where did it go up? If you total up the many hundreds of demonstrations all over the country/world, there were well over 1M demonstrators. Deal with it.

There will be a blue wave of enthusiasm. You saw evidence of it yesterday, or would have had you not been so busy arguing an already-lost point. It remains to be seen how much of that vote the forces of suppression can negate.

In other news, am going out to get the fixing for an Orange ’n’ Stormy, to be quaffed during the airing of 60 minutes tonight.
Title: Re: At 1 million plus strong, March for Our Lives rallies make powerful statement
Post by: RE on March 25, 2018, 09:20:33 AM
It remains to be seen how much of that vote the forces of suppression can negate.

As I said, the march doesn't change anything.  Even the voting won't change very much even if the Blue Wave takes both Houses of CONgress.  Pols of neither stripe color will send out the ATF to collect all the Gunz in the FSoA.  It's just not gonna happen.  School Shootings won't be stopping anytime too soon either.

Quote
In other news, am going out to get the fixing for an Orange ’n’ Stormy, to be quaffed during the airing of 60 minutes tonight.

I look forward to your report!  ;D

RE
Title: Re: At 1 million plus strong, March for Our Lives rallies make powerful statement
Post by: K-Dog on March 25, 2018, 01:52:08 PM
Let's pile on. Feel free to have some evidence with that crow y0u're eating.

Wow.  Crowd size estimate went up 200K from one post to the next! lol.  I guess how big the crowd size was depends on your spin.  ::)

However, it was a good size turnout, but as I said everybody goes home today and it's BAU on Monday.  You keep telling me there will be no "Blue Wave" because the Repugnants have everything sewed up so tight with Gerrymandering and funding from the Kochs.  Which is it here chief?

RE

Jesus. Are you strung out on heroin again?

Yesterday's estimate in DC was @80,000. Today's estimate for DC was @800,000. Where did it go up? If you total up the many hundreds of demonstrations all over the country/world, there were well over 1M demonstrators. Deal with it.

There will be a blue wave of enthusiasm. You saw evidence of it yesterday, or would have had you not been so busy arguing an already-lost point. It remains to be seen how much of that vote the forces of suppression can negate.

In other news, am going out to get the fixing for an Orange ’n’ Stormy, to be quaffed during the airing of 60 minutes tonight.

(https://cdn1-pornstars.4tube.com/tb/0/0/0/0/0/3/5/8/1/275x375.jpg)

A little 'research' on Stormy revealed Trump might not know which hole is the right hole but since Trump had kids he must have guessed right a few times.  I wonder what Melania will be doing?  Perhaps the secret service?  :jerk:


No way is that drone/chopper photo a million people.  It is not even 100,000.  I'm good with numbers.  The trick here is to make a square that is the length of a street wide and estimate how many people could be in it.  Now how many of the squares would it take to cover the visible antpile shown in the picture.
Title: Re: At 1 million plus strong, March for Our Lives rallies make powerful statement
Post by: Surly1 on March 25, 2018, 03:41:05 PM
A little 'research' on Stormy revealed Trump might not know which hole is the right hole but since Trump had kids he must have guessed right a few times.  I wonder what Melania will be doing?  Perhaps the secret service? 

Trump came back from Mar a Lago alone, as Melania is with Barron on "spring break." It may be an extended vacation . Me, I have run out of fucks to give about that high priced call girl. Come to think of it,  she has a lot in common with Stormy: transactional sex.

No way is that drone/chopper photo a million people.  It is not even 100,000.  I'm good with numbers.  The trick here is to make a square that is the length of a street wide and estimate how many people could be in it.  Now how many of the squares would it take to cover the visible antpile shown in the picture.

Sigh. No one said there were a million people in the pic. They estimated 800,000 in DC. The million figure comes from the collective demonstrations all over the country, of which there were a shitload. I assume that in DC, what happened was the same as what happened in Norfolk. People were still coming in as people were leaving. The parade route in N Norfolk was 20 blocks, and the head of the parade met the tail. There were 500-8000  people massed, which police said was the largest march that ever occurred here.

There were more folks in evidence in DC than there were for the second women's march, and by a lot.
Title: Re: At 1 million plus strong, March for Our Lives rallies make powerful statement
Post by: Surly1 on March 25, 2018, 04:05:27 PM
It remains to be seen how much of that vote the forces of suppression can negate.

As I said, the march doesn't change anything.  Even the voting won't change very much even if the Blue Wave takes both Houses of CONgress.  Pols of neither stripe color will send out the ATF to collect all the Gunz in the FSoA.  It's just not gonna happen.  School Shootings won't be stopping anytime too soon either.


During the period that assault weapons were banned, mass shootings were reduced. What is undeniable is that we have seen an incredible uptick of mass shootings since the ban expired on September 14, 2004.

(https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/IZtdpHtBRr_Oen-9tLd5F7VH6N8=/480x0/arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/7QDTNGZDFQ3TVDFQ4XJG6JVHEQ.png)

Quote from: L. Klaveras
Compared with the 10-year period before the ban, the number of gun massacres during the ban period fell by 37 percent, and the number of people dying from gun massacres fell by 43 percent. But after the ban lapsed in 2004, the numbers shot up again — an astonishing 183 percent increase in massacres and a 239 percent increase in massacre deaths.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/02/15/its-time-to-bring-back-the-assault-weapons-ban-gun-violence-experts-say/?utm_term=.71d5c1bf1768 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/02/15/its-time-to-bring-back-the-assault-weapons-ban-gun-violence-experts-say/?utm_term=.71d5c1bf1768)
Title: Re: At 1 million plus strong, March for Our Lives rallies make powerful statement
Post by: RE on March 25, 2018, 05:24:32 PM

During the period that assault weapons were banned, mass shootings were reduced. What is undeniable is that we have seen an incredible uptick of mass shootings since the ban expired on September 14, 2004.

Correlation is not causation.  We have also seen a large uptick in Collapse issues since 2004.

RE
Title: Re: At 1 million plus strong, March for Our Lives rallies make powerful statement
Post by: Surly1 on March 25, 2018, 07:23:49 PM

During the period that assault weapons were banned, mass shootings were reduced. What is undeniable is that we have seen an incredible uptick of mass shootings since the ban expired on September 14, 2004.

Correlation is not causation.  We have also seen a large uptick in Collapse issues since 2004.

RE

Riiiight. Evidence be damned. You have a position to defend.

Correlation is not causation, but I'd enjoy watching you explain that to the bereaved families.
Title: Re: At 1 million plus strong, March for Our Lives rallies make powerful statement
Post by: K-Dog on March 25, 2018, 08:21:36 PM

During the period that assault weapons were banned, mass shootings were reduced. What is undeniable is that we have seen an incredible uptick of mass shootings since the ban expired on September 14, 2004.

Correlation is not causation.  We have also seen a large uptick in Collapse issues since 2004.

RE

Riiiight. Evidence be damned. You have a position to defend.

Correlation is not causation, but I'd enjoy watching you explain that to the bereaved families.

We both know that would go nuclear in about thirty seconds.  No, 25 15 seconds.  Might you find another way to get your jollies?

On a serious note correlations in times of collapse can't mean much with chaos entering into the picture as time goes by.  But in times of collapse they are not important anyway because they'd only be important in a future which we won't have.  On that last point I must remind myself to be positive and hope for the best.

My answer is to require membership in a militia.  A militia can be induced to police its members without too much trouble.
Title: Re: At 1 million plus strong, March for Our Lives rallies make powerful statement
Post by: K-Dog on March 25, 2018, 09:12:55 PM

During the period that assault weapons were banned, mass shootings were reduced. What is undeniable is that we have seen an incredible uptick of mass shootings since the ban expired on September 14, 2004.

Correlation is not causation.  We have also seen a large uptick in Collapse issues since 2004.

RE

Riiiight. Evidence be damned. You have a position to defend.

Correlation is not causation, but I'd enjoy watching you explain that to the bereaved families.

We both know that would go nuclear in about thirty seconds.  No, 25 15 seconds.  Might you find another way to get your jollies?

On a serious note correlations in times of collapse can't mean much with chaos entering into the picture as time goes by.  But in times of collapse they are not important anyway because they'd only be important in a future which we won't have.  On that last point I must remind myself to be positive and hope for the best.

My answer is to require membership in a militia.  A militia can be induced to police its members without too much trouble.

I wish Stormy had revealed the Donald used the pooper but no such luck.  No revelation that matters really.  Will 'they' try to get Cohen on an illegal campaign contribution?  Yes they will.  Will that be in the ethical spirit of the law.  Probably not.  Do I care.  Actually a little bit.

The whole Stormy interview was something to look forward to and enjoy.  Not because it gave us any earthshaking news or will lead to any change, it won't.  But it was enjoyable because we all know Trump sleeps alone tonight.
Title: Re: At 1 million plus strong, March for Our Lives rallies make powerful statement
Post by: RE on March 25, 2018, 09:32:23 PM

During the period that assault weapons were banned, mass shootings were reduced. What is undeniable is that we have seen an incredible uptick of mass shootings since the ban expired on September 14, 2004.

Correlation is not causation.  We have also seen a large uptick in Collapse issues since 2004.

RE

Riiiight. Evidence be damned. You have a position to defend.

Correlation is not causation, but I'd enjoy watching you explain that to the bereaved families.

We both know that would go nuclear in about thirty seconds.  No, 25 15 seconds.  Might you find another way to get your jollies?

On a serious note correlations in times of collapse can't mean much with chaos entering into the picture as time goes by.  But in times of collapse they are not important anyway because they'd only be important in a future which we won't have.  On that last point I must remind myself to be positive and hope for the best.

My answer is to require membership in a militia.  A militia can be induced to police its members without too much trouble.

Requiring membership in a militia isn't a bad idea, but there are problems with it.

1-  TPTB don't want organized Militias.

2-  Instead of one lone psycho, you could have a whole militia group go postal.

The problem I consistently run into with the idea of gun control is the horses left the barn problem.  There are currently estimated at 357M gunz circulating in the population.  That's an estimate which probably only includes legally purchased gunz, not ones smuggled in by drug cartels from Mejico.  I can think of no practical way to collect up all these gunz.  Not the least of the problems is that most of the folks who own them consider it a god given right and they're not all going to turn them over willingly.  Then there is the money all these folks paid for the gunz when they were legal.  Are they going to be reimbursed for this confiscation?

Now, if you make them harder to buy for HS age adolescents this might have an impact on the school shootings, but a black market will develop for them because nature abhors a vacuum.  I do support raising the age limit to 21 though, along with raising the age of conscription or volunteering for the military or joining a police force to 21.

Besides this though, increasingly hopeless, suicidal and homicidal teens will simply turn to their carz as WMDs  Wait for school to let out and then mow them down with your SUV.

What you are trying to do here is fix a symptom of the disease, you're not addressing the underlying cause of the disease.  Shoot-em-ups are a symptom.  The cause is COLLAPSE.

RE
Title: Re: At 1 million plus strong, March for Our Lives rallies make powerful statement
Post by: K-Dog on March 26, 2018, 01:25:34 AM

Requiring membership in a militia isn't a bad idea, but there are problems with it.

1-  TPTB don't want organized Militias.

2-  Instead of one lone psycho, you could have a whole militia group go postal.

The problem I consistently run into with the idea of gun control is the horses left the barn problem.  There are currently estimated at 357M gunz circulating in the population.  That's an estimate which probably only includes legally purchased gunz, not ones smuggled in by drug cartels from Mejico.  I can think of no practical way to collect up all these gunz.  Not the least of the problems is that most of the folks who own them consider it a god given right and they're not all going to turn them over willingly.  Then there is the money all these folks paid for the gunz when they were legal.  Are they going to be reimbursed for this confiscation?

Now, if you make them harder to buy for HS age adolescents this might have an impact on the school shootings, but a black market will develop for them because nature abhors a vacuum.  I do support raising the age limit to 21 though, along with raising the age of conscription or volunteering for the military or joining a police force to 21.

Besides this though, increasingly hopeless, suicidal and homicidal teens will simply turn to their carz as WMDs  Wait for school to let out and then mow them down with your SUV.

What you are trying to do here is fix a symptom of the disease, you're not addressing the underlying cause of the disease.  Shoot-em-ups are a symptom.  The cause is COLLAPSE.

RE

1-  TPTB would be a problem in getting the idea off the ground yes.  The last thing they want is Americans breaking the digital isolation they are cultivating and coming together as a community.  They might cause some people to die if a movement got traction, which might or might not stop the movement.

2-  The odds of psychos coming together as a group is really small and simple rules would make it hard for psychos to honor the requirements of militia membership.  A militia itself would have to maintain standards or loose state registration.  In such a case members would have a certain amount of time to turn in their guns or find a new registered militia to join if they can.  There will be admission requirements.  Psychos would have to be normal enough to show regular meeting attendance and a few other things which normal people find easy, but which would be challenging for psychos.  A citizenship test might be required and essay questions psychos could find very dicey. 

What could happen is a militia would do what militias are supposed to do when the state becomes too oppressive; appropriate insurrection.  That would not be the same thing as  a bunch of psychos going off.  The secret would be to incentive militias to be 'normal' and communication with other normal militias would be encouraged and made part of the requirements.

If this seems confusing it is because I have not thought out all the details but the basic idea is sound.  Self governing militias who incentively develop 'community'  A community which demands normalcy and adherence to values or its members can't play their game.  A community which could actually channel some with deranged impulses into become normal members of the community should such members manage to squeak by admission requirements.  People who would otherwise go psycho might find themselves impatiently waiting for their next militia meeting so they can see their friends, talk their shit and calm their asses down.

As to the number of guns in circulation there are indeed so many it will be years before they are all safely secured under militia control.  Here I think an 80-20 rule would manifest.  80% of guns would be rapidly secured and be under militia control in only a year.  That would mean that a psycho would have it four times as hard to go postal with a gun after only one year of militias because four of five guns would be out of circulation.  Reality would be far more complicated but if the basic pattern follows an 80/20 rule there would be real benefit very quickly.  Enough benefit to make the project worthwhile and as time goes by it would be harder and harder for a psycho to go psycho.
Title: Re: At 1 million plus strong, March for Our Lives rallies make powerful statement
Post by: Surly1 on March 26, 2018, 02:24:40 AM
My answer is to require membership in a militia.  A militia can be induced to police its members without too much trouble.

We already have an assortment of Oath Keepers and Three Percenters.

One is not reassured. Although I've not heard of one of them being involved in a mass shooting.
Title: There's No Going Back From What Happened This Weekend. The Gun Debate Is Over.
Post by: Surly1 on March 26, 2018, 09:26:42 AM
There's No Going Back From What Happened This Weekend. The Gun Debate Is Over. (https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a19587477/the-gun-debate-is-over/?src=nl&mag=esq&list=nl_enl_news&date=032618)
The only question is how far and how fast change will come.


 

Getty Images

Our national debate about guns is over. It ended in a dark movie theater in Aurora, Colorado, and at an outdoor concert in Las Vegas. It ended in a first grade classroom in Connecticut and at a high school in Florida. It ended a thousand times on the streets of Chicago, or Baltimore, or Memphis, with a thousand grieving mothers who never got invited to come onto cable television.

It ended the last time a child found his daddy's gun and killed his sister in their living room. It ended the last time a person in crisis found a handgun. It ended when a bunch of high school students, who didn't know any better, decided that they could no longer trust the adults to protect them. It ended on a day in March when millions of ordinary Americans, angry and frustrated and mourning, took to their streets to declare it over.

There is no going back from what happened this weekend. There is only the question of how far and how fast the change will come. If the people who marched on Saturday vote—and why wouldn’t they—the National Rifle Association and its lackeys in Congress and state legislatures around the country have no chance this November and beyond.

For those craven politicians, elected and re-elected on the blood of innocents, beholden to an organization that long ago betrayed its founding principles, forever contorting law and logic to justify assault rifles for teenagers and peanuts for gun research, the game is over, the bluff's been called. You can only fool so many people for so long.

THE GAME IS OVER, THE BLUFF'S BEEN CALLED. YOU CAN ONLY FOOL SO MANY PEOPLE FOR SO LONG.

Saturday was about passion and about the expression of grief, but the movement right now, the latest iteration of it, is about the numbers as much as anything. The gun lobby is losing whatever real constituency it ever had, one act of gun violence at a time. In the past 20 years alone, hundreds of thousands of teenagers and young adults have had direct experiences with school shootings and they are refusing to allow their own children to be as traumatized as they were.

Student demonstrators at March For Our Lives.
Josh Riemer

Add to this constituency the families ripped apart by individual acts of gun violence, the poor mothers and fathers who lose their kids in stories that never get told, and you see how the tide has turned. Not just in the poll numbers, which show declining support for the NRA and growing support for gun restrictions, but in real life.

Robert Kennedy gave us his "ripples of hope" speech in South Africa 52 years ago, and it resonates here with a twist. We saw in America Saturday the impact of ripples of grief. Each instance of gun violence ripples out to a family, a clan, a neighborhood, a community, a village, until, as we saw this weekend, "crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring those ripples build a current which can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance."

The ripples abound now. The current has arrived. The oppression and the resistance of the gun lobby and its allies in political office will not survive it.

After the crowds had dissipated in one city and town after another, and the talking heads took back the stage, they hedged: What if the protesters don't vote? What if all the glory and the grit is for naught? Please. They already are voting. And registering, too. The constituency that changed American life in the face of drunk driving deaths is changing it again in the face of unremitting gun violence. Thank God for them.

So long as Donald Trump and Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell continue to bow down to the gun lobby, they’ll remember. How could they forget? Every day brings a new tragedy and so all these brave, determined mothers and sisters and daughters and aunts and grandmothers will be reminded every day from now until November what's at stake: the lives of their children. In the 37 days since the Parkland massacre 73 more teens have been shot to death.

Donald Trump speaks at the NRA annual meeting.
Getty Images

The reason the conversation is over, the reason that so many millions of people have had enough with gun violence, the reason you saw so many Republicans on the streets with signs this weekend, is that the relentless misery guns bring into our lives is something we all can see, and feel, while the dark conspiracies and “toxic masculinity” peddled by the NRA and its tribunes sound more deranged by the day.

Did you catch the NRA "hot take" on Saturday? The trolling of the brave Parkland students? How "no one would know their names" if their classmates had not been gunned down by a mentally ill teenager who had easy access to a weapon of war? That's how you know the conversation is over. One side finally is willing to trust what it sees with its own eyes. The other side mocks the teenage survivors of a gun massacre.

The conversation’s over because at some point there’s no use talking any longer. I know plenty of people who want reasonable gun reform, including many gun owners. I bet you do, too. They see, like most rational people see, that there is no good reason on God's green earth to hand out assault rifles to children.

But I don't know a single person who wants to take a shotgun or a rifle from the hands of a hunter or a handgun away from a sane homeowner who wants to feel protected in her own home. And I bet you don’t, either. Who’s coming for their guns? No one. How many more children have to die before they are convinced? None. Because the protesters no longer are interested in trying to convince them.

The lawn outside the U.S. Capitol is covered with 7,000 pairs of empty shoes to memorialize the 7,000 children killed by gun violence since the Sandy Hook school shooting.
Getty Images

The goal of the movement is much more modest than the gun lobby can admit, which accounts both for the growing popularity of the activists and the despair on the part of the NRA. The debate today is not over core gun rights. It’s over gun restrictions that are well within the parameters of the precedent that Justice Antonin Scalia, the charlatan of the Second Amendment, had to agree to in his landmark gun-rights ruling in 2008 that first recognized a personal right to bear arms.

In the decade since that ruling, the Supreme Court has signaled over and over again that it is comfortable with gun restrictions. Just ask Justice Clarence Thomas, the NRA’s man at the Court, who has repeatedly expressed frustration with the limitations his colleagues have accepted about the scope of the Second Amendment.

Here's an idea. How about we implement the gun restrictions and reforms most commonly discussed? How about we invest at last in federal gun research to better understand what we are up against? (Congress took a step toward this last week.) How about we deny assault weapons for anyone under the age of 21—or, better yet, under the age of 25? How about we give teeth, at last, to universal background checks? How about we make sure the mentally ill cannot get their hands on weapons? How about we treat gun manufacturers the way we do every other company and strip from them the extra immunity Congress gave them in 2005? How about we crack down on gun sales in states like Indiana, where gun trafficking spreads onto the streets of Chicago? How about we ban bump stocks?

How about we try all these things and save countless American lives each year and then have a conversation about the Second Amendment? How about we slide just far enough down that slippery slope so we can stop the bleeding, literally, and then see where we are as a country? How about we try for a few years to allow hundreds of thousands more of our fellow citizens to live or avoid being wounded and see what that feels like?

That's all the protesters want. That, and to go to school without a fear that they will be cut down in their classroom. That, and to send their kids outside to play and not have to worry about a stray bullet. That, and to see their grandchildren grow into what they are meant to be. The debate is over. Now all that is left is to implement the noble and needed national consensus that has emerged from it.

 

Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 26, 2018, 09:50:46 AM
This is not the end. It's not even the beginning of the end. But it is a real beginning.

The NRA needs to be taken over or taken out. As long as they have unlimited money and a president and board with extreme views, they're gonna be a problem.

I hope some of these millenials show up and vote against the worst of the Republicans, at least.

And....I hope the restrictions, when they do come, are reasonable. The mental health issue is thorny.
Title: Re: There's No Going Back From What Happened This Weekend. The Gun Debate Is Over.
Post by: RE on March 26, 2018, 11:06:01 AM
How is the debate over?  How are they going to round up 357M guns?  Are the Gun Owners going to be reimbursed for their formerly legal  guns when they are confiscated?  Will the Police have their guns taken away also so they will stop shooting unarmed black people?  What will they do with people who refuse to give up their guns?  Will they take them by force?

There are still a lot of question in the Gun Debate that are unanswered here.  It's by no means over.

RE
Title: Re: There's No Going Back From What Happened This Weekend. The Gun Debate Is Over.
Post by: Surly1 on March 26, 2018, 12:26:37 PM
How is the debate over?  How are they going to round up 357M guns?  Are the Gun Owners going to be reimbursed for their formerly legal  guns when they are confiscated?  Will the Police have their guns taken away also so they will stop shooting unarmed black people?  What will they do with people who refuse to give up their guns?  Will they take them by force?

There are still a lot of question in the Gun Debate that are unanswered here.  It's by no means over.

RE

Don't be such a literal goober. Of course it's not over. Nothing has changed. The point is the author makes is that we're reached a tipping point. And that the discussion from here on out will be different.

Of course, we have these worthies keeping it classy:
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29498131_10211465529581129_5419827105315234389_n.jpg?oh=7ece32424a7a254ee78dfe94fa33ff0e&oe=5B3C182D)  (https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29541678_1637287743029267_8892653743005345779_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=4195c4d8d0c82b3ed95a802b0f792a30&oe=5B35A2EB)

Now HERE is what I take heart in:
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/03/new-survey-young-staying-liberal-conservatives-dying-off.html?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=s3&utm_campaign=sharebutton-t (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/03/new-survey-young-staying-liberal-conservatives-dying-off.html?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=s3&utm_campaign=sharebutton-t)

"Many conservatives supported Trump precisely because they were panicked about this trend. So far, Trump is merely accelerating the demise they feared."

New Survey Shows Young People Are Staying Liberal and Conservatives Are Dying Off

By @jonathanchait

Sofia Hidalgo, 15, of Albert Einstein High School in Kensington, Maryland, and other students calling for Congress to act on gun control, demonstrate at the Capitol on February 21, 2018. Photo: Tom Williams/CQ-Roll Call,Inc.

For obvious reasons, the broadly liberal demographic trends in American politics have received much less attention since the 2016 election. Yet the fact remains that America is politically sorted by generations in a way it never has before. The oldest voters are the most conservative, white, and Republican, and the youngest voters the most liberal, racially diverse, and Democratic. There is absolutely no sign the dynamic is abating during the Trump years. If anything, it is accelerating.

The most recent Pew Research Survey has more detail about the generational divide. It shows that the old saw that young people would naturally grow more conservative as they age, or that their Democratic loyalties were an idiosyncratic response to Barack Obama’s unique personal appeal, has not held. Younger voters have distinctly more liberal views than older voters:

One could probably quibble with the overall definitions of which voters have liberal views and which have conservative views. What’s telling here is the comparison between generations. By Pew’s given definition, younger voters are wildly more liberal than older ones. The youngest voters have nearly five times as many voters with liberal views than with conservative views. The oldest voters have one and a half times more conservative than liberal voters.

Correspondingly, the Democratic lean of millennial voters is as strong as ever:

In the upcoming midterm elections, millennials are providing a huge share of the Democrats’ edge, with older generations splitting their vote relatively close:

In previous elections, especially those without a president on the ballots, millennials showed up in far lower numbers than older voters. So far they indicate a much stronger interest in voting:

Democrats are benefiting from what political scientists call “thermostatic public opinion,” in which preferences about the size of government tend to swing in the opposite direction of which party controls the presidency. Some of the liberal trends in public opinion are a simple reaction to Trump. But there are also longer-standing trends on some social issues. Within generations, opinion on the role of immigrants is moving left and has been since early in President Obama’s first term:

Likewise, opinions about race — and the degree to which racism plays an important role in holding back African-Americans — are also moving left. This is a triumph of activism by Black Lives Matter and other groups calling attention to racism:

It is hard to focus on this trend at a moment when Republicans have full control of government, and are heading into an election where gerrymandering gives them a large advantage in maintaining Congress. But this fact runs headlong against a much longer deterioration of the conservative position within the electorate. Many conservatives supported Trump precisely because they were panicked about this trend. So far, Trump is merely accelerating the demise they feared.

In the long run, as John Maynard Keynes quipped, “We are all dead.” But over the long run, the Republicans are especially dead.



Die, motherfuckers, die.
Title: Re: There's No Going Back From What Happened This Weekend. The Gun Debate Is Over.
Post by: RE on March 26, 2018, 12:30:34 PM
How is the debate over?  How are they going to round up 357M guns?  Are the Gun Owners going to be reimbursed for their formerly legal  guns when they are confiscated?  Will the Police have their guns taken away also so they will stop shooting unarmed black people?  What will they do with people who refuse to give up their guns?  Will they take them by force?

There are still a lot of question in the Gun Debate that are unanswered here.  It's by no means over.

RE

Don't be such a literal goober. Of course it's not over. Nothing has changed. The point is the author makes is that we're reached a tipping point. And that the discussion from here on out will be different.

The Headline says it's over. :P

How will the debate be different?  It's the same old debate.  Nobody ever answers the practical questions of how you get 357M guns back in the barn.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 26, 2018, 01:03:27 PM
Nobody ever answers the practical questions of how you get 357M guns back in the barn.

RE


Short answer? You don't really need to do that in order to keep the schools relatively safe. Drive-bys in the ghetto?  That won't change because those guns mostly change hands on the black market. But most school shooters buy their guns new, and legally.

Incremental change will help.  Tighter restrictions on high capacity magazines and assault rifles will help. Making bump stocks illegal? That's pretty silly. I only know of one mass shooter who used one, and that was the Vegas guy. I don't think you can stop guys like that...not completely.

But teachers and kids should be safe at school.

 Maybe they need to hire a couple of pro snipers for every school, to shoot the shooters. Make jobs for some of those gun nuts. Keep 'em off the street.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 26, 2018, 03:27:00 PM
You don't need to get rid of the legacy guns you need to get rid of the new buyers at their most volatile age. If you were really serious you would put a moratorium on unregistered purchases of assault weapons. Or a mandatory training clause for new buyers with all existing owners grandfathered in. Have that in place for a few decades and old owners die out or surrender willingly. Make it illegal for old owners to sell to unregistered new owners. It would take decades to really bite but it would work. Social pressure would mount on people as well just like it did for seat belts or drunk driving.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on March 26, 2018, 04:28:37 PM
Nobody ever answers the practical questions of how you get 357M guns back in the barn.

RE


Short answer? You don't really need to do that in order to keep the schools relatively safe. Drive-bys in the ghetto?  That won't change because those guns mostly change hands on the black market. But most school shooters buy their guns new, and legally.

Incremental change will help.  Tighter restrictions on high capacity magazines and assault rifles will help. Making bump stocks illegal? That's pretty silly. I only know of one mass shooter who used one, and that was the Vegas guy. I don't think you can stop guys like that...not completely.

But teachers and kids should be safe at school.

 Maybe they need to hire a couple of pro snipers for every school, to shoot the shooters. Make jobs for some of those gun nuts. Keep 'em off the street.

As I said, I am in favor of a 21 age minimum for gun purchases as well as more thorough background checks.  However, the school shooters will get their gunz the same way the gang bangers do, on the Black Market.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 26, 2018, 05:04:09 PM
That is now while the pool of guns is so huge. When the pool shrinks the price goes up. Plus those are a lot of annoying expensive steps to get a hold of an assault weapon. I think American's problem is high power weapons have been allowed to be turned into immediate gratification consumer goods. Make people have to jump through hoops and the poor impulse control unstable candidates will not follow through
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on March 26, 2018, 05:13:01 PM
That is now while the pool of guns is so huge. When the pool shrinks the price goes up. Plus those are a lot of annoying expensive steps to get a hold of an assault weapon. I think American's problem is high power weapons have been allowed to be turned into immediate gratification consumer goods. Make people have to jump through hoops and the poor impulse control unstable candidates will not follow through

Rather than calling them "poor impulse control unstable candidates" I would label them "single minded obsessed psychopaths".

Anyhow, only time will tell on this and it will take a long time just for any legislation with any teeth at all to pass even assuming the "Blue Wave" rolls into shore, and even longer for the pool of gunz to shrink in size.  School Shootings aren't going away anytime soon.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Surly1 on March 26, 2018, 05:25:34 PM
That is now while the pool of guns is so huge. When the pool shrinks the price goes up. Plus those are a lot of annoying expensive steps to get a hold of an assault weapon. I think American's problem is high power weapons have been allowed to be turned into immediate gratification consumer goods. Make people have to jump through hoops and the poor impulse control unstable candidates will not follow through

Rather than calling them "poor impulse control unstable candidates" I would label them "single minded obsessed psychopaths".

Anyhow, only time will tell on this and it will take a long time just for any legislation with any teeth at all to pass even assuming the "Blue Wave" rolls into shore, and even longer for the pool of gunz to shrink in size.  School Shootings aren't going away anytime soon.

RE

Maybe, but if you look at the data on the Assault Weapons ban, school shootings went way the hell down from 1994-2004. I'd take a slowdown even if the #SlaughterLobby won't.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: edpell on March 26, 2018, 05:26:31 PM
I view both parties both ends of the left right spectrum as lairs and thieves. Vote liberal and get all the transvestite bathrooms you want but no livable pay, no pension, no medicare, no social security.   
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 26, 2018, 05:33:23 PM
I agree with you David.

FWIW I tried to pick up my new shotgun at Cabela's yesterday and I didn't pass the FBI background check, at least the automated online version. I expect to be cleared as soon as a human looks at my application, which might take several days. But they are being careful, apparently.

It has to do with my  DWI stop about 8 months ago, which I totally beat in court, but still had my driver's license suspended for 6 months because they manage to do that here in 93% of the cases where the defendant refuses a breathalyzer. It's punishment for not being a compliant sheeple. Fairly outrageous, but they can do it.

Nobody really gets their license taken completely away (unless you have a CDL) here. Without a car, most people can't get to work. So they have this system where you pay money and get an"occupational license" and then pay even more and have your license re-instated in 180 days. If you're unlucky, they put a breathalyzer in your car (at your expense) and you get random tested several times a day while driving. The damn things malfunction and leave people stranded all the time. That's what I hear. Fortunately I was spared that.

I was told my arrest record would be completely expunged. (Not sure if that's done yet, but I paid $2500 extra for it.). However, if I refuse a breathalyzer again I get suspended for  two years (2nd offense), even though my blood alcohol was found to be below the legal limit. How about them apples?

But it flagged my gun purchase somehow. LOL.



Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 26, 2018, 05:47:51 PM
I view both parties both ends of the left right spectrum as liars and thieves. Vote liberal and get all the transvestite bathrooms you want but no livable pay, no pension, no medicare, no social security.

Oh, yeah. The conservatives have got the back of the working man in America.

http://www.youtube.com/v/BZVgl49yPzg&fs=1
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Surly1 on March 26, 2018, 05:51:59 PM
I agree with you David.

FWIW I tried to pick up my new shotgun at Cabela's yesterday and I didn't pass the FBI background check, at least the automated online version. I expect to be cleared as soon as a human looks at my application, which might take several days. But they are being careful, apparently.

It has to do with my  DWI stop about 8 months ago, which I totally beat in court, but still had my driver's license suspended for 6 months because they manage to do that here in 93% of the cases where the defendant refuses a breathalyzer. It's punishment for not being a compliant sheeple. Fairly outrageous, but they can do it.

Nobody really gets their license taken completely away (unless you have a CDL) here. Without a car, most people can't get to work. So they have this system where you pay money and get an"occupational license" and then pay even more and have your license re-instated in 180 days. If you're unlucky, they put a breathalyzer in your car (at your expense) and you get random tested several times a day while driving. The damn things malfunction and leave people stranded all the time. That's what I hear. Fortunately I was spared that.

I was told my arrest record would be completely expunged. (Not sure if that's done yet, but I paid $2500 extra for it.). However, if I refuse a breathalyzer again I get suspended for  two years (2nd offense), even though my blood alcohol was found to be below the legal limit. How about them apples?

But it flagged my gun purchase somehow. LOL.

Jesus.

As they used to say in southern WV, "I ain't never heerd tell of the like."

What a racket. File under "policing for profit."
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Surly1 on March 26, 2018, 05:55:29 PM
I view both parties both ends of the left right spectrum as lairs and thieves. Vote liberal and get all the transvestite bathrooms you want but no livable pay, no pension, no medicare, no social security.

I view this opinion as yet another retreat into "both-siderism," and this, utter horseshit. Any comparison of the so-clled "left right spectrum" neglects the consideration that one party, and only one party, has been intent on the immiseration of working people since 1981.

Transvestite bathrooms? Really? That's what you've got?

Are you lost?
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: jdwheeler42 on March 26, 2018, 06:15:25 PM
School Shootings aren't going away anytime soon.
We can completely eliminate school shootings... just ban schools.  Make everyone educate their kids at home.  Then there won't be any target-rich environment for the shooters.





I'm kidding, of course, but there is a serious point.  If you had a school where this was a truly serious problem, say, a kid was dying every other day, shutting it down would be a serious option.  It's sad that kids are dying, but if you're setting policy you have to keep things in perspective.  About 150 people die a year from deer, does that mean we are going to wipe out all 30 or so million of them to keep drivers from running into them?

If you look at Lakeland specifically, you'll see we don't need new laws, we need the ones we already have to be enforced effectively.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 26, 2018, 06:47:44 PM
I view both parties both ends of the left right spectrum as lairs and thieves. Vote liberal and get all the transvestite bathrooms you want but no livable pay, no pension, no medicare, no social security.

I view this opinion as yet another retreat into "both-siderism," and this, utter horseshit. Any comparison of the so-clled "left right spectrum" neglects the consideration that one party, and only one party, has been intent on the immiseration of working people since 1981.

Transvestite bathrooms? Really? That's what you've got?

Are you lost?

This is a  "Deerhunting With Jesus" moment. LOL.

There is plenty to criticize about Democrats. They've alienated working white people because they so obviously court the 13% black minority to get their votes. I get that. Same with all the rainbow LGBT crowd. The Dem's love all 'special" minorities, but just not regular people. They forgot regular people.

They know they need to court the hispanics, but the Mexican-Americans tend to not vote. There's a lot of fear in the hispanic American community. There was a women here in Texas who voted and she turned out not to be legal, maybe she misunderstood the rules, whatever. She got prison, from what I understand.

And the Democrat candidates are mostly hypocrites anyway. Racist by Zip Code. Seen Hillary going to any black churches to sing hymns since she lost?

But really, the truth is that we need single payer insurance if insurance bennies are going to exist, and that's socialism. But Social Security is socialism and Medicare is too. It's not new. As Americans we always had to think of it differently because we hated communists, right?  We were told to hate communists for over 40 years. Then we liked them for a few years...but now we don't again.

We need Medicare for all ages. The insurance companies are raping us, and the conservatives and the liberals in congress are both getting paid off by them. Voting Republican won't be a vote for healthcare. With the Dems there might be a ghost of a chance.

But that's what Bernie Sanders is for. The real lefties. Not many left.

And the other thing that I think is misunderstood is that tariffs won't bring back jobs. The jobs people used to get are just not coming back. When Trump says he's bringing back jobs it's pure bullshit. Maybe one plant somewhere, to brag about on TV. But not really.We're not going to retool for heavy industry. It's simply not gonna happen.



Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: K-Dog on March 26, 2018, 10:14:22 PM
I view both parties both ends of the left right spectrum as lairs and thieves. Vote liberal and get all the transvestite bathrooms you want but no livable pay, no pension, no medicare, no social security.

Divide and conquer. 

Voting one way or the other is not going to change the outcome.  Voting is an abrogation of political action.  It is an an agreement where power is given away.  I got that from the Sartre essay I posted.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: K-Dog on March 26, 2018, 10:19:30 PM

FWIW I tried to pick up my new shotgun at Cabela's yesterday and I didn't pass the FBI background check, at least the automated online version. I expect to be cleared as soon as a human looks at my application, which might take several days. But they are being careful, apparently.


Eddie, This is a serious question.  Do you think giving GW Bush the finger in 2004 would sink an FBI application if I made one?
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: K-Dog on March 26, 2018, 10:32:44 PM

But that's what Bernie Sanders is for. The real lefties. Not many left.


Yes, that is the truth.  Currently playing in Washington is Return of the NeoCon.  But Dems with identity politics can turn one group against another at will and the NeoLiberal Dem core is doing exactly that.  The core in both parties is moneyed and that controls their actions.  Now money wants war.

Bernie was shut down.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on March 27, 2018, 05:21:44 AM

FWIW I tried to pick up my new shotgun at Cabela's yesterday and I didn't pass the FBI background check, at least the automated online version. I expect to be cleared as soon as a human looks at my application, which might take several days. But they are being careful, apparently.


Eddie, This is a serious question.  Do you think giving GW Bush the finger in 2004 would sink an FBI application if I made one?

Middle finger no. Index finger yes.

Seriously, I doubt it. Shooting a politician the finger is protected speech, imho. It wouldn't be defensible to refuse you for that.
Title: Re: Ex-Supreme John Paul Stevens Calls for 2nd Amendment Repeal
Post by: Eddie on March 27, 2018, 05:43:09 AM
If you needed proof that sentiment on gun rights is changing, here it is.

John Paul Stevens: Repeal the Second Amendment

By JOHN PAUL STEVENS MARCH 27, 2018


Rarely in my lifetime have I seen the type of civic engagement schoolchildren and their supporters demonstrated in Washington and other major cities throughout the country this past Saturday. These demonstrations demand our respect. They reveal the broad public support for legislation to minimize the risk of mass killings of schoolchildren and others in our society.

That support is a clear sign to lawmakers to enact legislation prohibiting civilian ownership of semiautomatic weapons, increasing the minimum age to buy a gun from 18 to 21 years old, and establishing more comprehensive background checks on all purchasers of firearms. But the demonstrators should seek more effective and more lasting reform. They should demand a repeal of the Second Amendment.

Concern that a national standing army might pose a threat to the security of the separate states led to the adoption of that amendment, which provides that “a well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” Today that concern is a relic of the 18th century.


For over 200 years after the adoption of the Second Amendment, it was uniformly understood as not placing any limit on either federal or state authority to enact gun control legislation. In 1939 the Supreme Court unanimously held that Congress could prohibit the possession of a sawed-off shotgun because that weapon had no reasonable relation to the preservation or efficiency of a “well regulated militia.”


During the years when Warren Burger was our chief justice, from 1969 to 1986, no judge, federal or state, as far as I am aware, expressed any doubt as to the limited coverage of that amendment. When organizations like the National Rifle Association disagreed with that position and began their campaign claiming that federal regulation of firearms curtailed Second Amendment rights, Chief Justice Burger publicly characterized the N.R.A. as perpetrating “one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word fraud, on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime.”

In 2008, the Supreme Court overturned Chief Justice Burger’s and others’ long-settled understanding of the Second Amendment’s limited reach by ruling, in District of Columbia v. Heller, that there was an individual right to bear arms. I was among the four dissenters.

That decision — which I remain convinced was wrong and certainly was debatable — has provided the N.R.A. with a propaganda weapon of immense power. Overturning that decision via a constitutional amendment to get rid of the Second Amendment would be simple and would do more to weaken the N.R.A.’s ability to stymie legislative debate and block constructive gun control legislation than any other available option.

That simple but dramatic action would move Saturday’s marchers closer to their objective than any other possible reform. It would eliminate the only legal rule that protects sellers of firearms in the United States — unlike every other market in the world. It would make our schoolchildren safer than they have been since 2008 and honor the memories of the many, indeed far too many, victims of recent gun violence.

John Paul Stevens is a retired associate justice of the United States Supreme Court.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/27/opinion/john-paul-stevens-repeal-second-amendment.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/27/opinion/john-paul-stevens-repeal-second-amendment.html)
Title: 🔫 Gun Rights Advocates Gather Across The U.S.
Post by: RE on April 14, 2018, 08:10:56 PM
The NRA mobilizes the troops!

RE

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/14/602538931/gun-rights-advocates-gather-across-the-u-s (https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/14/602538931/gun-rights-advocates-gather-across-the-u-s)

Gun Rights Advocates Gather Across The U.S.

April 14, 20188:27 PM ET
Jenny Gathright

(https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2018/04/14/ap_18104758985282_wide-679682adf35f6173f6b5c9e0867d77bed78297b7-s800-c85.jpg)
Activists with the National Constitutional Coalition of Patriotic Americans march in Albany, N.Y. The organization spread the word about coordinated gun rights rallies in state capitols across the U.S.
Hans Pennink/AP

Gun rights demonstrators rallied at state capitols across the U.S. Saturday to show support for gun ownership. A group called The National Constitutional Coalition of Patriotic Americans created Facebook events for pro-gun gatherings in all 50 states, and its co-founder David Clayton told the Associated Press that organizers secured permits for rallies in 45 states. It has been three weeks since Parkland, Fla. high school students and their allies organized a day of public rallies and marches to push for more gun regulation.
Illustrated Scenes From The 'March For Our Lives'
NPR Ed
Illustrated Scenes From The 'March For Our Lives'

A statement on the National Constitutional Coalition of Patriotic Americans' website announcing the events frames the day of action as a show of support for the Second Amendment and the Constitution. It also alludes to political debates about gun violence and mass shootings:

    "Modern thinkers feel the need to strip away our natural born right to self-protection by limiting the available weapons that are at our disposal. They blame mental illness without documentation. They blame everything except the sole responsible party, the person involved in the action."

Another group publicizing the events on social media was Oath Keepers. According to the organization's website, Oath Keepers is "a non-partisan association of current and formerly serving military, police, and first responders, who pledge to fulfill the oath all military and police take to 'defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.'" The Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks the activity of far-right groups in the U.S., calls Oath Keepers "one of the largest radical anti-government groups in the U.S. today."

(https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2018/04/14/ap_18104696445544_wide-079fc047ee75e2de5d0e12530de9d5dfe4367483-s800-c85.jpg)
A man participates in the rally in Indianapolis, Ind.
Michael Conroy/AP

Clayton told The Chicago Tribune that though carrying unloaded guns, when legal, was encouraged, the marches were meant to be nonviolent:

    "This is a very peaceful approach to a show of force," Clayton said. "What that means is we're not going to go there looking for a fight. We're saying, 'Look at all the people gathered here. We have a voice too.'"

Associated Press reporters counted about 100 people at the event in Cheyenne, Wyo., more than 400 at the event in Dover, Del. and more than 135 people at the event in Atlanta, Ga. Organizers of the event in Augusta, Maine told the Associated Press about 800 people showed up there.

(https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2018/04/14/ap_18104716155436_wide-035ae72cf3d47e17fd67d5fd7b74912cae468341-s800-c85.jpg)
Joe Dobbins of Hartford, Maine, wore a cut-out of an AR-10 tactical rifle with the words "Black Guns Matter" on it to the gun rights rally in Augusta, Maine on Saturday.
Robert F. Bukaty/AP

Corey Stewart, a Republican who is now making his second run for Senate in Virginia, spoke at the event in Richmond, Va. He told NPR that though he hasn't heard an official count, he estimates that about 200 people were in attendance. He says he believes such an event is important in the current political moment because "the left is trying very hard to limit the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding Americans."
Who Wants To Arm Teachers? Republican Men
Politics
Who Wants To Arm Teachers? Republican Men

Stewart says he emphasized arms as a tool for public safety in his speech Saturday. "The only way that we're going to prevent school shootings is by arming retired police, veterans and even teachers," he said. "The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."
Title: 🔫 Hundreds of school walkouts planned for Friday
Post by: RE on April 20, 2018, 05:08:42 AM
They won't have to walk out in AZ.  Teachers beat them to it.

School's Out for Summer early this year!  :icon_sunny:

http://www.youtube.com/v/2Oo8QzDHimQ

RE

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/hundreds-school-walkouts-planned-friday-n867726 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/hundreds-school-walkouts-planned-friday-n867726)

Hundreds of school walkouts planned for Friday

"We're walking out to remember every single young person who has been killed by American gun violence."
by Associated Press / Apr.20.2018 / 3:01 AM ET / Updated 3:24 AM ET

(http://media2.s-nbcnews.com/i/MSNBC/Components/Video/201803/f_mash_mfol_180324.jpg)

A student waves a placard as classmates gather during a student walkout to protest gun violence on the soccer field behind Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado, on March 14, 2018.David Zalubowski / AP

Another wave of student walkouts is expected to disrupt classes Friday at hundreds of schools across the U.S. as young activists press for tougher gun laws.

The protests were chosen to line up with the 19th anniversary of the Columbine High School shooting, which left 13 people dead in Littleton, Colorado. At 10 a.m., students plan to gather for moments of silence honoring the victims at Columbine and other shootings.

From there, some students will head to rallies at their statehouses. Others will stay at school to discuss gun violence. Some are holding voting registration drives.

Organizers say there will be walkouts in every state, with more than 2,600 registered on the event's website as of Thursday. Citywide protests are expected to attract thousands in New York City and Austin, Texas. Police in Richmond, Virginia, say they expect at least 10,000 at the state Capitol.

It follows a wave of youth activism that has emerged after the Feb. 14 shooting massacre at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida.

Tens of thousands of students left class March 14 to protest gun violence in what historians called the largest youth protest movement since at least the Vietnam War. Days later, hundreds of thousands of teens and their backers rallied across the U.S. calling for tougher laws on guns and ammunition.

Plans for Friday's walkout began only hours after the Parkland shooting, when a Connecticut teen started an online petition calling for protests on the anniversary of Columbine. Sophomore Lane Murdock then gathered a few other students at Ridgefield High School to orchestrate the national protest.
March For Our Lives: Sights and sounds from the historic rally across the country
03:03

They also have received help from Indivisible, a left-leaning nonprofit based in Washington that helps boost grassroots activism. The group says it was formed after the 2016 election to oppose the policies promoted by President Donald Trump.

"We're walking out to remember every single young person who has been killed by American gun violence," Murdock said in a statement Thursday. "We're walking out to talk about the real problems our country is facing, and the solutions that our leaders are too scared to dream up."

Administrators at many schools tacitly allowed the walkouts in March, opting not to punish participants. But some now say the leniency has expired.

At a town hall Monday, the chancellor of New York City's education department urged students not to walk out on Friday.
Related
At March for Our Lives, survivors lead hundreds of thousands in call for change

"You don't need to be out of school all day to make your voices known," Chancellor Richard Carranza told students at Brooklyn Technical High School. "You've already made your voices known. So I'm going to ask you to stay in school."

Even so, students at many New York schools are planning to rally at the city's Washington Square Park.

Some schools in Houston and elsewhere will give students time to share their views but have warned them not to leave campus or return to class late. Some others are holding alternative events after school. Many have simply said students are expected to stay in class throughout the day.

Students in the Washington area are planning to march from the White House to the Capitol building, where they will rally and deliver letters to Congress calling for greater gun control.

In Littleton, some survivors of the Columbine shooting planned to join with Parkland survivors for a vigil and rally Thursday evening. But there will be no walkout at Columbine, which has long canceled classes on the anniversary of the shooting. Instead, students will be called to participate in a day of service.

Principal Scott Christy said in a letter to other schools in his district that April "has long been a time to respectfully remember our loss, and also support efforts to make our communities a better place."

Binkley can be reached on Twitter at @cbinkley
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: azozeo on April 20, 2018, 05:24:51 AM
Columbine got it right, have the students participate in a day of service. Good for the soul.

Alice, what can I say? Arizona's pride & joy rocker. Still bangin' em' out at the Indian Casino's & playin' golf.

Dude chose a great gig for this lifetime  :icon_sunny:
Title: Toronto van: Ten dead and 15 injured as pedestrians are hit
Post by: RE on April 23, 2018, 05:50:28 PM
Nice Kill Count with no AR-15!

Remember, "People don't Kill People, Carz Kill People"

We need better background checks for drivers, and we should raise the age limit to get a Driver's License.

RE

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43873804 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43873804)

Toronto van: Ten dead and 15 injured as pedestrians are hit

(https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/517C/production/_101006802_046372785.jpg)

Media captionWitnesses recall Toronto van incident

Ten people have been killed and 15 injured after a man drove a van into pedestrians in Toronto, police said.

The suspect has been named by police as Alek Minassian, 25.

A man was arrested several streets away following a tense standoff with officers on the street.

Bystander videos appeared to show the driver pointing an object at the officers, who can be heard shouting at him to get down. The man was then detained without any shots being fired.

Toronto deputy police chief Peter Yuen asked for witnesses to come forward and said there would be "a long investigation". He said separate hotlines had been set up for victims' families and for witnesses.

Police would not say if they believed the act was deliberate but Canadian public safety minister Ralph Goodale, in a tweet thanking the emergency services, referred to it as a "horrific attack".
Skip Twitter post by @RalphGoodale
Report

End of Twitter post by @RalphGoodale

Reza Hashemi, who owns a video shop on Yonge Street, told the BBC he heard screaming on the other side of the road.

He said the white rental van had repeatedly mounted the pavement and run into people.
Media captionAmbulance rushes to the scene in Toronto

Van rental company Ryder System Inc confirmed that one of its vehicles was involved and said it was co-operating with authorities.

The incident occurred at Yonge Street and Finch Avenue at 13:30 local time (17:30 GMT) on Monday. The crime scene encompassed a 2km (1.24 mile) stretch of Yonge Street.
Image copyright Getty Images
Image caption The damaged rental van was sealed off by police

About 18 miles (30km) away in the city centre, foreign ministers of the G7 leading industrialised nations - Canada, the US, Britain, France, Germany, Italy and Japan - were holding meetings.

Pictures apparently taken at the scene showed armed police and paramedics treating the injured. One orange bag, which appeared to contain a body, was loaded on to an ambulance.

Toronto police spokeswoman Jenifferjit Sidhu told CBC News that the vehicle was stopped by police.
Residents left in shock

Jessica Murphy, BBC News, Toronto

A long stretch of Yonge Street in Toronto's North York is cordoned off with yellow police tape for what police say will be a complex investigation.

There are multiple sites where people were hit. At one intersection, debris and a lone shoe mark the spot of one fatality.

In the aftermath, people who would usually be running errands or heading back to surrounding office towers and condominiums reacted with shock at what happened, sharing what they had seen or heard, even though reasons behind the incident remain unclear.

Hours after the event there is mainly just quiet, as police begin the painstaking work of piecing together what happened on a wide stretch of road on Monday lunch hour.

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau tweeted from Ottawa: "Our thoughts are with all those affected by the terrible incident at Yonge and Finch in Toronto."

"Thank you to the first responders working at the scene - we're monitoring the situation closely."

One witness told City News that the driver was "hitting anything that comes in the way".

"People, fire hydrants, there's mail boxes being run over," said the unnamed man, who said he was driving behind the van during the incident.

As the van continued, the man said he sounded his horn to try to warn pedestrians. "I witnessed at least six, seven people being hit and flying in the air, like killed, on the street," he said.
Image copyright Reuters
Image caption Bystanders tried to help emergency responders treat the injured victims

Toronto Mayor John Tory called it "a very tragic incident". He said he had "offered any and all assistance that the city can provide to the police to help this investigation".

The US and Europe have seen an increase in driving attacks in recent years. In October 2017, a man in New York drove a van down a bicycle path, killing eight people.

Are you in Toronto, Canada? Did you witness anything? Please email haveyoursay@bbc.co.uk.

Please include a contact number if you are willing to speak to a BBC journalist. You can also contact us in the following ways:


Title: 🔫 Anti-GunControl fets a Centerfold at Kent State
Post by: RE on May 17, 2018, 06:29:08 AM
Nice and symbolic!

(https://s.hdnux.com/photos/20/32/06/4301203/5/920x920.jpg)

Thar was then, this is now.

RE

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/college-graduate-wears-gun-holster-with-ar-10-in-her-graduation-photos/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/college-graduate-wears-gun-holster-with-ar-10-in-her-graduation-photos/)


By Caitlin O'Kane CBS News May 16, 2018, 11:28 AM
College grad wears gun holster with AR-10 in her graduation photos

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DdFvbyrXkAEFW5r.jpg)

A recent college graduate from Kent State University in Ohio is gaining attention online for graduation photos she posted on Twitter.

Kaitlin Bennett shared photos of herself wearing an AR-10 rifle strapped to her back and her graduation cap in hand. A picture of a gun and the words "come and take it" decorated the graduation cap.

"Now that I graduated from Kent State, I can finally arm myself on campus," Bennett wrote in the post. "I should have been able to do so as a student - especially since 4 unarmed students were shot and killed by the government on this campus."

Bennett is referring to the killing of four people on Kent State's campus in 1970. After days of unrest over America's invasion of Cambodia during the Vietnam War, student protesters clashed with Ohio National Guardsmen. The guardsmen opened fire, killing four students and wounding nine others.

Bennett tweeted several images from a photo shoot that she took to mark graduation. In the photos, she poses around Kent State University's campus wearing a white dress and and a gun holster around her body. She explained in one tweet that the gun is an AR-10 and it "fires at the same rate as any modern pistol," not an assault rifle.

It is a tradition at many colleges for students to decorate their graduation caps with clever sayings and personal messages. The message Bennett chose: "Come and take it," referring to her gun.

Some Twitter users replied to Bennett's photos with disapproval or worse. She posted screenshots of her exchange with an aggravated Twitter user who appeared to threatened her physically. Bennett says Twitter suspended that person's account.

"This rifle is legally owned. Assault rifles have been banned for decades. Do you not see the problem here? You say you don't want to take away legally owned guns, but had NO IDEA that the rifle pictured is legally owned," she replied to other commenters.

When someone questioned if the police would support Bennett's public display of the firearm if she were black, Bennett replied. "The black officer that was with us during this photoshoot loved it, actually. Give him a call," she wrote.

Bennett also got support on Twitter, with one person writing, "The gun offsets your dress beautifully!" "Stand your ground. You go girl a lot of us have your back," another commenter wrote.

The new graduate is one of the founders of the "Liberty Hangout" group, her Twitter bio reads. The group has been
"promoting peace, prosperity and property rights since 2015," according to its website. The college student-run organization is a right-wing group that vows to protect the Second Amendment.

Bennett said in a tweet that now that she has graduated, she is allowed to carry a gun on campus. However, Kent State's policy regarding deadly weapons states "Students, staff, faculty, and third parties doing business with the university are further prohibited from possessing, storing, or using a deadly weapon while outside on university grounds, that is owned, operated or leased by the university."
Title: Re: 🔫 Anti-GunControl fets a Centerfold at Kent State
Post by: Surly1 on May 17, 2018, 07:09:53 AM
Nice and symbolic!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DdFvbyrXkAEFW5r.jpg)

Thar was then, this is now.

RE

A fucking obscenity.

She wants to pack because four students were killed by the "gummint." Just a distaff Brandon Smith full of right wing agitprop. Here's hoping she goes gunning for the "Deep State™" very soon.

Open carry nitwits are bound and determined to turn every public space into a potential killing zone, and make every trip to a convenience store a life-or-death adventure.

This society DESERVES to collapse. The quicker the better.
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on May 17, 2018, 07:32:19 AM
What a bunch of silly shit. The right to carry should not extend to this kind of stuff. I support gun free urban public spaces. I don't want to be anywhere near this kind of "peaceful demonstration." I'm not that trusting.

Remember when we lived in a world where common sense often prevailed? We sure ain't in Kansas anymore, Toto.
Title: Re: Toronto van: Ten dead and 15 injured as pedestrians are hit
Post by: K-Dog on May 17, 2018, 09:32:14 AM
Nice Kill Count with no AR-15!

Remember, "People don't Kill People, Carz Kill People"

We need better background checks for drivers, and we should raise the age limit to get a Driver's License.

RE

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43873804 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43873804)

Toronto van: Ten dead and 15 injured as pedestrians are hit

(https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/517C/production/_101006802_046372785.jpg)

Media captionWitnesses recall Toronto van incident

Ten people have been killed and 15 injured after a man drove a van into pedestrians in Toronto, police said.

The suspect has been named by police as Alek Minassian, 25.


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DbjjuoKV4AAvonh.jpg)


http://www.youtube.com/v/BDsjtCTcYUw

Check this out:

http://haenfler.sites.grinnell.edu/subcultures-and-scenes/incels/ (http://haenfler.sites.grinnell.edu/subcultures-and-scenes/incels/)

An excerpt:

Feminism has afforded women more rights and agency over the past several decades. However, from feminism’s beginnings, certain groups of men have been arguing that maybe men, not women, are society’s real victims (Gilmore 2001). The men’s rights movement (MRM) is inherently reactionary in nature, arguing concepts like reverse sexism. Men’s rights activists (MRAs) have formed coalitions around issues such as false rape accusations, circumcision, custody battles, and abortion. Historically, MRM has been a relatively fringe movement, but it has proliferated recently due to the Internet’s unprecedented capability to collect like-minded individuals in a forum to discuss their perceived grievances on a large scale. Welcome to the Manosphere, a diffuse online network of blogs, subreddits, Facebook groups, forums, and more dedicated to rejecting feminism in favor of “men’s rights.” Thanks to the Internet, the Manosphere is global, and most members never meet each other, but it is massive and rapidly growing.

The Grinnell study adds that many in the Incel Movement subreddit were also active in alt-right pages such as “The Red Pill,” “Mens Rights” and “Men Going Their Own Way.” A Quartz piece included words such as “femoids” and “Chad” as being part of a new alt-right dictionary. That same article mentions that some on the subreddit referred to Elliot Rodger as “Saint Elliot” because he “martyred” himself for the Incel cause.


It seems the INTERNET is allowing broken people to come together and cultivate their pain and maladjustments together.  One big fucked up family.  It seems 'Incels' nickname everything and everyone so they don't have to take responsibility for anything.

As to Minassian, he has written an 'app' that has been downloaded over 100 times which lets you find parking in Toronto.  He can, or rather, could code.  But where he is going he won't be touching a computer for the rest of his life.

Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on May 17, 2018, 09:50:15 AM
Is there a club for people who refuse to join any club who would have them for a member?

Come to think about it, maybe the Diner IS that club.

Like-minded fools are coming together to share their stupidity and make it seem acceptable.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQWA-Sl3oEewTGL3hS15LCOgqAU75QDyFDSAKDBQWiucWKhUjPv)
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Surly1 on May 17, 2018, 10:48:19 AM
What a bunch of silly shit. The right to carry should not extend to this kind of stuff. I support gun free urban public spaces. I don't want to be anywhere near this kind of "peaceful demonstration." I'm not that trusting.

Remember when we lived in a world where common sense often prevailed? We sure ain't in Kansas anymore, Toto.

No kidding. "A well-regulated militia:"

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BoA8k96IUAAJodY.jpg)

(https://trevorslibrary.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/neckbeard.jpg)
Title: Re: Toronto van: Ten dead and 15 injured as pedestrians are hit
Post by: Surly1 on May 17, 2018, 10:56:18 AM

Check this out:

http://haenfler.sites.grinnell.edu/subcultures-and-scenes/incels/ (http://haenfler.sites.grinnell.edu/subcultures-and-scenes/incels/)

An excerpt:

Feminism has afforded women more rights and agency over the past several decades. However, from feminism’s beginnings, certain groups of men have been arguing that maybe men, not women, are society’s real victims (Gilmore 2001). The men’s rights movement (MRM) is inherently reactionary in nature, arguing concepts like reverse sexism. Men’s rights activists (MRAs) have formed coalitions around issues such as false rape accusations, circumcision, custody battles, and abortion. Historically, MRM has been a relatively fringe movement, but it has proliferated recently due to the Internet’s unprecedented capability to collect like-minded individuals in a forum to discuss their perceived grievances on a large scale. Welcome to the Manosphere, a diffuse online network of blogs, subreddits, Facebook groups, forums, and more dedicated to rejecting feminism in favor of “men’s rights.” Thanks to the Internet, the Manosphere is global, and most members never meet each other, but it is massive and rapidly growing.

The Grinnell study adds that many in the Incel Movement subreddit were also active in alt-right pages such as “The Red Pill,” “Mens Rights” and “Men Going Their Own Way.” A Quartz piece included words such as “femoids” and “Chad” as being part of a new alt-right dictionary. That same article mentions that some on the subreddit referred to Elliot Rodger as “Saint Elliot” because he “martyred” himself for the Incel cause.


It seems the INTERNET is allowing broken people to come together and cultivate their pain and maladjustments together.  One big fucked up family.  It seems 'Incels' nickname everything and everyone so they don't have to take responsibility for anything.


Come on down! Everyone's a victim!!!

All because a handful of right wing snowflakes could't figure out how to get laid.

Now I'm having a deja vu: we've had this conversation before. This is where I make the point about listening and getting to know the girl gets the panties off, and RE replies with his stories of plying ballerinas with coke, and how listening is bullshit, and how women are all bimbos, and how any man who has one is pussy-whipped.

I remember now.

Now we're in re-runs.


Interesting link. Thanks.
Title: Re: Toronto van: Ten dead and 15 injured as pedestrians are hit
Post by: RE on May 17, 2018, 01:23:54 PM
RE replies with his stories of plying ballerinas with coke, and how listening is bullshit, and how women are all bimbos, and how any man who has one is pussy-whipped.

Stop misquoting me.

I never said "all women are Bimbos"EVAH.  You are manufacturing "alternative facts" to suit the model for me you have created in your head.  It is innacurate and unjustified and you need to apologize for this.

Just like the male population, at least 90% of women are assholes, but not all.  Of the remaining 10% of people of either of the tratitional genders I can tolerate as a friend, 99% of them I couldn't or wouldn't want to live in the same house with them.  You would be one of those people and it has nothing to do with your being a female, homosexual, transgender or any other fucking gender identity.  I just couldn't stand having you around all the time.

In terms of men who do keep women around to live with, I ALSO never said ALL of them were Pussy-Whipped.  You need to apologize for floating that alternative fact also.  I even presented the cultural example fact of Japanese men who aren't as often Pussy Whipped as their Western counterparts here in the FSoA.  What I do note is my historical and present experience, which is that just about every male I do know now who is married is also Pussy-Whipped.  I think this is mostly a cultural phenomena and an artifact of the Collapse of Industrial Civilization.

Please apologize for your misstatements ASAP.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: RE on May 17, 2018, 01:29:52 PM
Is there a club for people who refuse to join any club who would have them for a member?

The Fence-Sitter Club.

(https://i0.wp.com/religo.wordpress.com/files/2009/03/fencesitter.jpg)

RE
Title: Re: Toronto van: Ten dead and 15 injured as pedestrians are hit
Post by: Surly1 on May 17, 2018, 02:07:24 PM
RE replies with his stories of plying ballerinas with coke, and how listening is bullshit, and how women are all bimbos, and how any man who has one is pussy-whipped.

Stop misquoting me.

I never said "all women are Bimbos"EVAH.  You are manufacturing "alternative facts" to suit the model for me you have created in your head.  It is innacurate and unjustified and you need to apologize for this.

Just like the male population, at least 90% of women are assholes, but not all.  Of the remaining 10% of people of either of the tratitional genders I can tolerate as a friend, 99% of them I couldn't or wouldn't want to live in the same house with them.  You would be one of those people and it has nothing to do with your being a female, homosexual, transgender or any other fucking gender identity.  I just couldn't stand having you around all the time.

In terms of men who do keep women around to live with, I ALSO never said ALL of them were Pussy-Whipped.  You need to apologize for floating that alternative fact also.  I even presented the cultural example fact of Japanese men who aren't as often Pussy Whipped as their Western counterparts here in the FSoA.  What I do note is my historical and present experience, which is that just about every male I do know now who is married is also Pussy-Whipped.  I think this is mostly a cultural phenomena and an artifact of the Collapse of Industrial Civilization.

Please apologize for your misstatements ASAP.

RE

Here's your apology: go fuck yourself.

I will leave it to the two or three remaining readers to weigh in as to whether or not I have accurately summarized your body of work.
You are a rock-ribbed misogynist, and your record trails behind you.
You sir, have a remarkable case of selective memory and a penchant for inventing alternative histories that is positively Trumpian.

And if you would like for this to be my final post for the Diner, I am at your service. You've done run off nearly everyone else.
Title: Re: Toronto van: Ten dead and 15 injured as pedestrians are hit
Post by: RE on May 17, 2018, 04:49:35 PM
RE replies with his stories of plying ballerinas with coke, and how listening is bullshit, and how women are all bimbos, and how any man who has one is pussy-whipped.

Stop misquoting me.

I never said "all women are Bimbos"EVAH.  You are manufacturing "alternative facts" to suit the model for me you have created in your head.  It is innacurate and unjustified and you need to apologize for this.

Just like the male population, at least 90% of women are assholes, but not all.  Of the remaining 10% of people of either of the tratitional genders I can tolerate as a friend, 99% of them I couldn't or wouldn't want to live in the same house with them.  You would be one of those people and it has nothing to do with your being a female, homosexual, transgender or any other fucking gender identity.  I just couldn't stand having you around all the time.

In terms of men who do keep women around to live with, I ALSO never said ALL of them were Pussy-Whipped.  You need to apologize for floating that alternative fact also.  I even presented the cultural example fact of Japanese men who aren't as often Pussy Whipped as their Western counterparts here in the FSoA.  What I do note is my historical and present experience, which is that just about every male I do know now who is married is also Pussy-Whipped.  I think this is mostly a cultural phenomena and an artifact of the Collapse of Industrial Civilization.

Please apologize for your misstatements ASAP.

RE

Here's your apology: go fuck yourself.

I will leave it to the two or three remaining readers to weigh in as to whether or not I have accurately summarized your body of work.
You are a rock-ribbed misogynist, and your record trails behind you.
You sir, have a remarkable case of selective memory and a penchant for inventing alternative histories that is positively Trumpian.

And if you would like for this to be my final post for the Diner, I am at your service. You've done run off nearly everyone else.

I have no desire for you to quit the Diner, I enjoy your posting even if you have a selective memory and poor recall of actual events that transpired.  I cannot do anything about your skewed vision of the events that transpired to cause this rift.  You simply cannot view anything but through this window you have made for yourself of "misogyny".

In the absence of an explicit apology, we simply go on with this argument when it pops up, ad infinitum until I buy my ticket to the Great Beyond.  Until then, I will call you out for your mistaken beliefs every time you pitch them here on the pages of the Doomstead Diner.  You speak untruths, and I cannot let that go without a rebuttal.

RE
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Eddie on May 18, 2018, 09:52:57 AM
Bloody hell. Another bad school shooting today here, south of Houston. Maybe ten people dead.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/santa-fe-high-school-shooting-today-2018-05-18-live-stream-updates/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/santa-fe-high-school-shooting-today-2018-05-18-live-stream-updates/)
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: K-Dog on May 18, 2018, 08:23:28 PM
Police found pressure cookers and pipe bombs around the school, one law enforcement source told CBS News.

A common thread to the Boston bombing.  Silent encouragement of a crazy from the same play-book?  Ahhhh Kkkkkeeeeeyyyyyrazie you say?  Mad dog mad dog, down boy down!  Sit!

Pagourtzis played on the junior varsity football team and was a member of a dance squad with a local Greek Orthodox church.

Remember Karpatok? She was involved in ethnic dancing, Hungarian she said.  But maybe she was grooming the young man and knew better than to say Greek dancing.  I think she danced for the deep state myself, but agree with me or not, collectivization is coming Comrade!

(http://www.tate.org.uk/sites/default/files/styles/width-1200/public/collective-farm-workers.jpg)

Cultivate 100 crazies and one is sure to yield the fear you desire.  <==  Sun Dog Tzu

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-KzpDxi3xaLM%2FTx1IljDS9yI%2FAAAAAAAAB_k%2FG2qPqbBKSBk%2Fs1600%2FChinese%2BDragon.jpg&f=1)
Title: Sisyphean Stew
Post by: K-Dog on May 18, 2018, 08:47:30 PM

Check this out:

http://haenfler.sites.grinnell.edu/subcultures-and-scenes/incels/ (http://haenfler.sites.grinnell.edu/subcultures-and-scenes/incels/)

An excerpt:

Feminism has afforded women more rights and agency over the past several decades. However, from feminism’s beginnings, certain groups of men have been arguing that maybe men, not women, are society’s real victims (Gilmore 2001). The men’s rights movement (MRM) is inherently reactionary in nature, arguing concepts like reverse sexism. Men’s rights activists (MRAs) have formed coalitions around issues such as false rape accusations, circumcision, custody battles, and abortion. Historically, MRM has been a relatively fringe movement, but it has proliferated recently due to the Internet’s unprecedented capability to collect like-minded individuals in a forum to discuss their perceived grievances on a large scale. Welcome to the Manosphere, a diffuse online network of blogs, subreddits, Facebook groups, forums, and more dedicated to rejecting feminism in favor of “men’s rights.” Thanks to the Internet, the Manosphere is global, and most members never meet each other, but it is massive and rapidly growing.

The Grinnell study adds that many in the Incel Movement subreddit were also active in alt-right pages such as “The Red Pill,” “Mens Rights” and “Men Going Their Own Way.” A Quartz piece included words such as “femoids” and “Chad” as being part of a new alt-right dictionary. That same article mentions that some on the subreddit referred to Elliot Rodger as “Saint Elliot” because he “martyred” himself for the Incel cause.


It seems the INTERNET is allowing broken people to come together and cultivate their pain and maladjustments together.  One big fucked up family.  It seems 'Incels' nickname everything and everyone so they don't have to take responsibility for anything.


Come on down! Everyone's a victim!!!

All because a handful of right wing snowflakes could't figure out how to get laid.

Now I'm having a deja vu: we've had this conversation before. This is where I make the point about listening and getting to know the girl gets the panties off, and RE replies with his stories of plying ballerinas with coke, and how listening is bullshit, and how women are all bimbos, and how any man who has one is pussy-whipped.

I remember now.

Now we're in re-runs.


Interesting link. Thanks.

(http://www.tate.org.uk/sites/default/files/styles/width-420/public/dance-of-the-seven-veils_0_1.jpg)

It is the fate of men that what they desire most is owned by other sentient beings not unlike themselves.  A fact that can make life both cruel and wonderful.
Title: Re: Sisyphean Stew
Post by: RE on May 18, 2018, 08:54:45 PM
It is the fate of men that what they desire most is owned by other sentient beings not unlike themselves.  A fact that can make life both cruel and wonderful.

What precisely is what men "desire most"?

RE
Title: 🔫 New Texas Shooter!
Post by: RE on May 19, 2018, 02:56:34 AM
Texas is definitely Shooter Capital of the World!

RE

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-texas-shooting/loner-student-shoots-and-kills-10-at-texas-school-idUSKCN1IJ1PA (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-texas-shooting/loner-student-shoots-and-kills-10-at-texas-school-idUSKCN1IJ1PA)

U.S.
May 18, 2018 / 5:26 AM / Updated 4 hours ago
'Loner' student shoots and kills 10 at Texas school
Liz Hampton, Erwin Seba

(https://www.afp.com/sites/default/files/nfs/diff-intra/english/shared/top/48ddd831640cbe40e10c0f12d614b9a217d46f1a.jpg)
May 18, 2018 / 5:26 AM / Updated 4 hours ago
'Loner' student shoots and kills 10 at Texas school
Liz Hampton, Erwin Seba

5 Min Read

SANTA FE, Texas (Reuters) - A 17-year-old student dressed in a trench coat and armed with a shotgun and pistol opened fire at his high school outside Houston on Friday, killing nine students and a teacher, before surrendering to officers, authorities said.

Santa Fe High School, southeast of Houston, joined a long list of U.S. campuses where students and faculty have been killed in a spray of gunfire.

The Texas shooting stoked the nation’s long-running debate over firearms ownership and came about three months after 17 teens and educators were fatally shot in Parkland, Florida.

Students said the gunman, identified by law enforcement as Dimitrios Pagourtzis, opened fire in an art class shortly before 8 a.m. Students and staff fled and a fire alarm triggered a full evacuation.

Classmates described Pagourtzis as a quiet loner who played on the football team. On Friday, they said, he wore the trench coat to school in Santa Fe, about 30 miles (50 km) southeast of Houston, on a day when temperatures topped 90 degrees Fahrenheit (32 degrees Celsius).

Texas Governor Greg Abbott said Pagourtzis obtained firearms from his father, who had likely acquired them legally, and also left behind explosive devices. [/img][/center]

5 Min Read

SANTA FE, Texas (Reuters) - A 17-year-old student dressed in a trench coat and armed with a shotgun and pistol opened fire at his high school outside Houston on Friday, killing nine students and a teacher, before surrendering to officers, authorities said.

Santa Fe High School, southeast of Houston, joined a long list of U.S. campuses where students and faculty have been killed in a spray of gunfire.

The Texas shooting stoked the nation’s long-running debate over firearms ownership and came about three months after 17 teens and educators were fatally shot in Parkland, Florida.

Students said the gunman, identified by law enforcement as Dimitrios Pagourtzis, opened fire in an art class shortly before 8 a.m. Students and staff fled and a fire alarm triggered a full evacuation.

Classmates described Pagourtzis as a quiet loner who played on the football team. On Friday, they said, he wore the trench coat to school in Santa Fe, about 30 miles (50 km) southeast of Houston, on a day when temperatures topped 90 degrees Fahrenheit (32 degrees Celsius).

Texas Governor Greg Abbott said Pagourtzis obtained firearms from his father, who had likely acquired them legally, and also left behind explosive devices.
Title: Re: Sisyphean Stew
Post by: Surly1 on May 19, 2018, 04:58:39 AM

Check this out:

http://haenfler.sites.grinnell.edu/subcultures-and-scenes/incels/ (http://haenfler.sites.grinnell.edu/subcultures-and-scenes/incels/)

An excerpt:

Feminism has afforded women more rights and agency over the past several decades. However, from feminism’s beginnings, certain groups of men have been arguing that maybe men, not women, are society’s real victims (Gilmore 2001). The men’s rights movement (MRM) is inherently reactionary in nature, arguing concepts like reverse sexism. Men’s rights activists (MRAs) have formed coalitions around issues such as false rape accusations, circumcision, custody battles, and abortion. Historically, MRM has been a relatively fringe movement, but it has proliferated recently due to the Internet’s unprecedented capability to collect like-minded individuals in a forum to discuss their perceived grievances on a large scale. Welcome to the Manosphere, a diffuse online network of blogs, subreddits, Facebook groups, forums, and more dedicated to rejecting feminism in favor of “men’s rights.” Thanks to the Internet, the Manosphere is global, and most members never meet each other, but it is massive and rapidly growing.

The Grinnell study adds that many in the Incel Movement subreddit were also active in alt-right pages such as “The Red Pill,” “Mens Rights” and “Men Going Their Own Way.” A Quartz piece included words such as “femoids” and “Chad” as being part of a new alt-right dictionary. That same article mentions that some on the subreddit referred to Elliot Rodger as “Saint Elliot” because he “martyred” himself for the Incel cause.


It seems the INTERNET is allowing broken people to come together and cultivate their pain and maladjustments together.  One big fucked up family.  It seems 'Incels' nickname everything and everyone so they don't have to take responsibility for anything.


Come on down! Everyone's a victim!!!

All because a handful of right wing snowflakes could't figure out how to get laid.

Now I'm having a deja vu: we've had this conversation before. This is where I make the point about listening and getting to know the girl gets the panties off, and RE replies with his stories of plying ballerinas with coke, and how listening is bullshit, and how women are all bimbos, and how any man who has one is pussy-whipped.

I remember now.

Now we're in re-runs.


Interesting link. Thanks.

(http://www.tate.org.uk/sites/default/files/styles/width-420/public/dance-of-the-seven-veils_0_1.jpg)

It is the fate of men that what they desire most is owned by other sentient beings not unlike themselves.  A fact that can make life both cruel and wonderful.

Quite true, and well-said.

 :emthup: :emthup:
Title: Re: 🔫 New Texas Shooter!
Post by: Eddie on May 19, 2018, 09:06:22 AM
Texas is definitely Shooter Capital of the World!

RE

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-texas-shooting/loner-student-shoots-and-kills-10-at-texas-school-idUSKCN1IJ1PA (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-texas-shooting/loner-student-shoots-and-kills-10-at-texas-school-idUSKCN1IJ1PA)

U.S.
May 18, 2018 / 5:26 AM / Updated 4 hours ago
'Loner' student shoots and kills 10 at Texas school
Liz Hampton, Erwin Seba

(https://www.afp.com/sites/default/files/nfs/diff-intra/english/shared/top/48ddd831640cbe40e10c0f12d614b9a217d46f1a.jpg)
May 18, 2018 / 5:26 AM / Updated 4 hours ago
'Loner' student shoots and kills 10 at Texas school
Liz Hampton, Erwin Seba

5 Min Read

SANTA FE, Texas (Reuters) - A 17-year-old student dressed in a trench coat and armed with a shotgun and pistol opened fire at his high school outside Houston on Friday, killing nine students and a teacher, before surrendering to officers, authorities said.

Santa Fe High School, southeast of Houston, joined a long list of U.S. campuses where students and faculty have been killed in a spray of gunfire.

The Texas shooting stoked the nation’s long-running debate over firearms ownership and came about three months after 17 teens and educators were fatally shot in Parkland, Florida.

Students said the gunman, identified by law enforcement as Dimitrios Pagourtzis, opened fire in an art class shortly before 8 a.m. Students and staff fled and a fire alarm triggered a full evacuation.

Classmates described Pagourtzis as a quiet loner who played on the football team. On Friday, they said, he wore the trench coat to school in Santa Fe, about 30 miles (50 km) southeast of Houston, on a day when temperatures topped 90 degrees Fahrenheit (32 degrees Celsius).

Texas Governor Greg Abbott said Pagourtzis obtained firearms from his father, who had likely acquired them legally, and also left behind explosive devices. [/img][/center]

5 Min Read

SANTA FE, Texas (Reuters) - A 17-year-old student dressed in a trench coat and armed with a shotgun and pistol opened fire at his high school outside Houston on Friday, killing nine students and a teacher, before surrendering to officers, authorities said.

Santa Fe High School, southeast of Houston, joined a long list of U.S. campuses where students and faculty have been killed in a spray of gunfire.

The Texas shooting stoked the nation’s long-running debate over firearms ownership and came about three months after 17 teens and educators were fatally shot in Parkland, Florida.

Students said the gunman, identified by law enforcement as Dimitrios Pagourtzis, opened fire in an art class shortly before 8 a.m. Students and staff fled and a fire alarm triggered a full evacuation.

Classmates described Pagourtzis as a quiet loner who played on the football team. On Friday, they said, he wore the trench coat to school in Santa Fe, about 30 miles (50 km) southeast of Houston, on a day when temperatures topped 90 degrees Fahrenheit (32 degrees Celsius).

Texas Governor Greg Abbott said Pagourtzis obtained firearms from his father, who had likely acquired them legally, and also left behind explosive devices.

The stories I read made it sound like he was considered a "nice kid". Not popular, but not a real weirdo. Not a mental case like the Parkland shooter. As usual, I'm sure there is much to this story we don't know.

I think if Florida, which is a pretty redneck state, can experience a groundswell of new support for gun control Texas can too. But like Florida, the gun nuts and the gun lobby OWN the legislature and the congressional contingent, both of which have gone full Kochsucker now.

Notably, the mayor of Dallas went off on the usual gang of useless Tweeter politicians who sent "their thoughts and prayers" (the Donald sent such a Tweet as well, of course). Mayor Rawlings said, and I quote:

"Spare us your thoughts and prayers and do your job."

People are going to get organized at some point around this issue. It obviously cannot be ignored. It could be an issue that eventually galvanizes the electorate.

How long can people keep voting for guys who take the graft and do nothing to keep this from happening? I'm not sure....but I think the answer is "not forever."
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Karpatok on May 19, 2018, 11:48:01 AM
Police found pressure cookers and pipe bombs around the school, one law enforcement source told CBS News.

A common thread to the Boston bombing.  Silent encouragement of a crazy from the same play-book?  Ahhhh Kkkkkeeeeeyyyyyrazie you say?  Mad dog mad dog, down boy down!  Sit!

Pagourtzis played on the junior varsity football team and was a member of a dance squad with a local Greek Orthodox church.

Remember Karpatok? She was involved in ethnic dancing, Hungarian she said.  But maybe she was grooming the young man and knew better than to say Greek dancing.  I think she danced for the deep state myself, but agree with me or not, collectivization is coming Comrade!

(http://www.tate.org.uk/sites/default/files/styles/width-1200/public/collective-farm-workers.jpg)

Cultivate 100 crazies and one is sure to yield the fear you desire.  <==  Sun Dog Tzu

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-KzpDxi3xaLM%2FTx1IljDS9yI%2FAAAAAAAAB_k%2FG2qPqbBKSBk%2Fs1600%2FChinese%2BDragon.jpg&f=1)
I had no idea you were such a vicious liar, K Dog, though I knew you were paranoid. You know next to nothing about me. Especially that there is no one who despises the Deep State and its puppets and ass likkers more than I do. So FUCK OFF MONGREL!
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Surly1 on May 19, 2018, 12:22:45 PM

I had no idea you were such a vicious liar, K Dog, though I knew you were paranoid. You know next to nothing about me. Especially that there is no one who despises the Deep State and its puppets and ass likkers more than I do. So FUCK OFF MONGREL!

Well, look who's back, charm and all!
Title: Re: Another Day Another Shooter
Post by: Karpatok on May 19, 2018, 01:22:09 PM

I had no idea you were such a vicious liar, K Dog, though I knew you were paranoid. You know next to nothing about me. Especially that there is no one who despises the Deep State and its puppets and ass likkers more than I do. So FUCK OFF MONGREL!