Doomstead Diner Newz Channels => Surveys => Topic started by: RE on October 20, 2015, 02:10:39 AM

Title: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: RE on October 20, 2015, 02:10:39 AM


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Published on the Doomstead Diner on October 20, 2015






Discuss the results at the Survey Table inside the Diner



TAKE THE COLLAPSE PERSONALITY PROFILE SURVEY HERE



Internet-JunkieRecently inside the Diner we had a long and involved discussion about Psychological Profiling, centering mostly on Enneagrams, which attempt to categorize the psychological profile of people through 9 different categories. This is not the only such type of profiling out there, the Briggs-Myers system which uses 4 main categories is also commonly referenced for this type of stuff.



Several of the Diners took the Enneagram test, and we have a fairly wide distribution of types recorded from this type of test and the results also seem to be repeatable through different tests for a given indvidual, but I am curious (yellow) as to what personality types defined by these tests and structures are prevalent in the Collapse Community?



To try to get some handle on this, I have created a Survey which you can fill out once you take the Enneagram Test and the Briggs-Myers test.  You don't necessarily have to take the same ones I am linking to here, but the data is going to be more consistent if you use these tests.



I also am including a Link to an IQ Test, which is optional to take, it's not necessary for the Personality Profiling.  However, again I am curious as to what kind of IQ the typical Kollapsnik TM has, so I added this to the Survey.



This is a "fun" survey, not meant to be too serious, the whole psychological  profiling thing is rather nebulous to begin with and the sample size we are likely to get is not going to be that statistically significant.  Nevertheless, I am interested to see how the distribution of personality types is spread out.



The two main personality tests and IQ Test links are:




If you are going to fill out the survey, you will need to take at least the Personality Tests.  The IQ Test is Optional.  Each of the tests takes about 15 minutes to do, and the survey itself also another 10-15 minutes, so if you want to participate this will cost you an hour of your valuable time.  lol.



survey-saysOK, now on to the results from the Future of Energy Survey, which brought in a good sample size and very interesting results overall. :)



The big question always posed on all collapse websites it the TIMELINE QUESTION? As in "When will *I* be unable to afford the gas or the pumps will be dry in *MY* neighborhood?  When will *MY* Lights go out?"  If this shit is happening to Greeks or Venezuelans, WTF CARES, right?  LOL.  As long as *I* am still doing OK, everything is PEACHY!  This is a particular problem here in the FSoA with the 20%  or so of still well-to-do Amurkans, who simply cannot fathom why the poor people can't get along, and why they feel the necessity to RIOT all the time?  What's with that #Ferguson shit, why don't these folks just do what the cops tell them to do?  LOL.



Anyhow, at least amongst Kollapsniks TM, we have a very solid consensus opinion on when the pumps will go dry and the lights will brown out regularly.  Very nice Bell Curve distribution on these questions, and if you believe Kollapsniks, then things will be going seriously SOUTH around 2025 or so.  Zager & Evans only got ONE digit wrong! :)



Which is the closest year to which Gas/Petrol will either be unavailable or too expensive for most people to buy in your neighborhood?
































 

Now

2020

2025

2030

2040

2050

Available for the forseeable future

Standard Deviation

Responses

All Data

4

(2.72%)


25

(17.01%)


44

(29.93%)


28

(19.05%)


14

(9.52%)


8

(5.44%)


24

(16.33%)


12.59

147


Which is the closest year to which on demand Grid Electricity will either suffer regular Brownout or Blackouts in your neighborhood 50% or more of the time?
































 

Now

2020

2025

2030

2040

2050

Available for the forseeable future

Standard Deviation

Responses

All Data

5

(3.4%)


18

(12.24%)


38

(25.85%)


24

(16.33%)


16

(10.88%)


6

(4.08%)


40

(27.21%)


12.95

147


2025 looks like the CRITICAL year to most Kollapsniks as far as availability of gas to do Happy Motoring and keeping the Lights On all the time in your digs.  I tend to agree with this assessment and 2025 was my vote on both of these questions.  What these questions also reveal is an approximation of how many Cornucopians haunt the Collapse Blogs, it appears to be between 15-30% of the readership.  These folks believe that the gas and electricity will continue to be available into the indefinite future.



Can Renewable Energy sources pick up the slack to maintain a technological society once Fossil Fuels cannot be accessed or afforded?
























 

Yes

No

Maybe, I'll explain it below

Standard Deviation

Responses

All Data

24

(16.33%)


92

(62.59%)


31

(21.09%)


30.54

147


Overwhelmingly, most Kollapsniks do not think Renewables can pick up the slack here once we drop off the Fossil Fuel based economy.  I tend to agree with this assesment as well.  Quite a few text responses came in for the "Maybe" choice, here they are:



What are your rationales for answering "maybe" to Renewables in Q3?



Text Responses





























































































































































































With farming and return to farm lifestyle. after tribal war and die off.

Low EROI Intermittent

It depends on what you mean by "technological society". I envision one that has – some – technology but only about 10% of our current energy usage.

if we can get around political obsticals and build more nuclear

production continues to ramp up immensely – the only thing preventing american access to cheap imported solar is bad tax policy

We need to drastically reduce consumption and inequality, go vegan, reduce human population voluntarily to about 10% of current levels (a stretch, I know), and put entire society on a "war footing." We probably need nuclear as well. We could maintain technological society but not today's consumption levels.

"Pick up the slack." What do you mean. Solar energy is to some extent suffering from a resource shortage: some rare earth metals. In PVs progress is being made, but then the inter-seasonal, daily and/or spatial production consumption imbalance will have to be overcome by large storage and /or transfer energy systems. In wind energy obviously similar issues play. These require huge amounts of resources (power storage reservoirs, compressed air batteries, huge power transport lines. Energy will never be cheap again, at some prices will reflect production cost (bye bye capitalism.). Our per capita energy consumption will (have to) go down. Living standards may follow. We may have to shrink as a species.

"Pick up the slack." What do you mean. Solar energy is to some extent suffering from a resource shortage: some rare earth metals. In PVs progress is being made, but then the inter-seasonal, daily and/or spatial production consumption imbalance will have to be overcome by large storage and /or transfer energy systems. In wind energy obviously similar issues play. These require huge amounts of resources (power storage reservoirs, compressed air batteries, huge power transport lines. Energy will never be cheap again, at some prices will reflect production cost (bye bye capitalism.). Our per capita energy consumption will (have to) go down. Living standards may follow. We may have to shrink as a species.

Not a technological society as we know it, but a society with some technlogy available to a few wealthy owners.

Not a technological society as we know it, but a society with some technlogy available to a few wealthy owners.

depends on priorities

The BIG game changer is whether or not storage can drop in price. It is disruptive technology. If storage drops to the 100/kwhr range or lower, it can change the whole energy distribution system. Not because of solar or wind, which it will obviously help. But because you no longer need to load follow, and have extra capacity online to meet -potential- load increases. It is a tremendous increase in efficiency. It is more danger initially to the FF industry then wind or solar. 100/kwh batteries also make electric cars the same price as their FF cousins. It allows for off-grid. The question is whether or not we can hit that goal or not, and the timeframe for achieving that goal. GM has announced it by 2022 which is 7 years. The potential is there.

BAU can not be supported by RE but a highly modified technological society can be. We will not have 24/7/365 electric. I expect we will have long distance communication via fiberoptic but maybe not video definitely not cell towers. I expect much lower population 90% less. On #6 below I mean simple tech no 20 billion dollar chip fabs. few or zero airplanes.

I should explain that there are no utilities in my neighborhood now. There are some real problems running industrial equipment on renewable energy sources, air travel will cost too much, and we should produce far less grain-fed meat, so there will be some major changes.

depends on economic and political conditions

All depends on the Hot Rocks – Nuke Puke situation. A different lower energy localized society might be possible. High rise towers could be used for local food production in lower density cities. Good design could minimize heating needs. A local large office building here in Vancouver is heated from the electrical lighting load, solar and occupant's body heat. Designed and built 50+ years ago.

Solar will become the dominant low cost energy as storage technologies (batteries and hydrogen predominantly) evolve.

Answer for #5. Manhattan Project style effort on LFTR research would be good to see. Probably too late, though. Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactor.

Only if expectations and levels of consumption are radically reduced – basically status quo lifestyle is a non-starter but a reduced expectation reality is.

We can replace 80% of electricity-generation fossil fuels with current technology; transport is probably doable but it requires significant breakthroughs.

Yes… esp if advanced biofuel, biooil, and other biological based fuel sources are utilized (algae, switchgrass, miscanthus, etc)

Fossil fuels won't become unaccessible or unaffordable in my lifetime.

Techincally, it could. The political and cultural changes also required are VERY unlikely to happen before it is too late to build the right technical infrastructure.

Energy from renewables will need to be directed to a smaller selected group of technologies, i.e. infotech, telecoms to continue the availability of knowledge and communication for people. Also continued production of high-tech for renewables themselves. Not on the receiving end. Long distance transportation of food/people/cheap-labour-produced dross, or tech for extracting/refining fossil fuels.

Transition time 30 years without causing problems, less than that and it will stress the system/public.

Sources that are neither fossils nor renewable such as nuclear energy will provide great amounts of energy. Renewable energy sources, solar in particular, will be more developed and produce greater amounts of energy than those sources do today. Also, if there would be a breakthrough in nuclear fusion technology, energy problems would no longer be a problem.

a society capable of limmited electrically powered processes at a ~1920s level, with all else being at an early 19th century level. yes. modern modern. no.

With combined energy efficiency and lower population levels the remaining population may be able to maintain a technological society with renewable energy sources only.

It requires that collapse not happen for any other reason; and while I expect that renewable energy will be able to be produced using just renewable energy, there will be degradation in quality and capacity with every generation, like a xerox of a xerox.

Well, we have to actually start the infrastructure in a big way, then techology has to continue in a non petroleum based power future.

Maybe at some point in the distant future, but why would we want them to, and fossil fuels will always have some advantages.

At what cost. Renewables have displayed the ability to fill the void left by declining fossil fuels. Renewables are expensive and rely on heavy tax incentives.

Technically they could make a HUGE difference but it is culturally and politically UNLIKELY to happen before it is too late.

renewables' foundation rests on fossil fuels.

RE is constantly changing. Innovation is possible. You cannot foresee the future.

technology for the rich, back to 19th century for everyone else

To a certain extent since we have plenty of hydro, nuclear and wind. The problem is, of course, transportation. We have lots of public transportation and plenty of biofuels generated from waste so pehaps it is possible. We cannot overconsume, drive cars or grow the economy but perhaps we could have some form of sophisticated communication (internet)


Should more Nuclear Power Plants be built to pick up shortfall in electrical power as fossil fuels dwindle?






















 

Yes

No

Standard Deviation

Responses

All Data

63

(43.45%)


82

(56.55%)


9.5

145


Nuke Puke was a pretty close vote for quite a while, running close to 50-50 in the early polling.  However, in the end the Anti-Nuke Greenies beat the Nuke Pukers, and more Nuke Plants were defeated in this vote.  It's highly unlikely many new ones will be built in any event, snce the end consumer can't afford to buy the electricity regardless of how it is produced.



In the event that we cannot find energy sources to replace fossil fuels in running our industrial economy, which outcome do you think is most likely?


























 

We will return to 18th century farming techniques at a lower population level

We will shrink down to very small numbers and return to Hunter-Gatherer living

We will maintain a technological society utilizing just renewable energy sources

We will go Extinct

Standard Deviation

Responses

All Data

68

(46.9%)


21

(14.48%)


41

(28.28%)


15

(10.34%)


20.7

145


The overwhelming plurality of Doomers think we are destined to all become Amish people (47%).  A relatively small percentage think we are destined for Near Term Human Extinction (10% of the sample).  A very significant number (28%) of people fit in that Cornucopian slot, believing we will be able to continue onward with a Technological Civilization utilizing Renewable Energy sources.  I fit in the 14% or so who believe we are destined to vastly shrink in numbers and return to a Hunter-Gatherer lifestyle, although I think this will take quite some time to take place and we probably will do the Amish thing for a while.



All in all, this was one of the more enlightening surveys so far, in terms of getting a feel for what the attitudes and beliefs are of people who haunt the Collapse Blog-o-sphere.  Next up, we need to determine the Psychological Profiles of these Doomers.



TAKE THE COLLAPSE PSYCHOLOGICAL PROFILE SURVEY HERE


Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: RE on October 20, 2015, 10:18:03 AM
Woo Hoo!

 :multiplespotting:

We've already got 15 Kollapsniks to take the Tests and the Survey!  :icon_sunny:

Make sure you get your results in there to get counted!

RE
Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: Eddie on October 20, 2015, 11:22:27 AM
That was easy. But damned if I can remember my own responses on the energy survey.
Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: RE on October 20, 2015, 12:35:27 PM
That was easy. But damned if I can remember my own responses on the energy survey.

Now past 20 respondents!  50 on this one would be doing really good since it is so time consuming (unless you already know your Enneagram, B-M & IQ).

Most respondents are answering the IQ question.  If you believe them all and the test is moderately accurate, the Avg IQ for a Kollapsnik is 130.

As expected, nobody reports an IQ under 100.

RE
Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: RE on October 20, 2015, 03:18:03 PM
That was easy. But damned if I can remember my own responses on the energy survey.

Now past 20 respondents!  50 on this one would be doing really good since it is so time consuming (unless you already know your Enneagram, B-M & IQ).

Most respondents are answering the IQ question.  If you believe them all and the test is moderately accurate, the Avg IQ for a Kollapsnik is 130.

As expected, nobody reports an IQ under 100.

RE

The Survey is now up to 28 Respondents and beginning to show some definitive trends!  :icon_sunny:

Anyone have a guess on what the most prevalent Enneagram Type and B-M Types are for Doomers?

RE
Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: Eddie on October 20, 2015, 03:56:16 PM
I would guess Myers-Briggs gives a lot of INTJ's.


So far, I noticed more 8's as far as E-type. I would also expect 1's.
Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: RE on October 20, 2015, 04:16:25 PM
I would guess Myers-Briggs gives a lot of INTJ's.


So far, I noticed more 8's as far as E-type. I would also expect 1's.

Correct on the INTJs so far, although they are 2nd to another B-M type by a bit.  Incorrect on the 8s & 1s, very small minority here so far in those categories.

IQ average running in the 130s still.

RE
Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: Petty Tyrant on October 20, 2015, 05:39:39 PM
 

th IQ test can get the answers and take it again, it then has no value.

Enneagram is not a personality test it is an ancient occult science. Like 12 signs of the zodiac, Chinese year of the dog, cat, etc,  numerology and palmistry. Those writing about it dont say to take the test first, but reccomended to read the 9 types and see which best applies. The tests are reccomended there if you cant decide. But the tests themselves also can't  decide. We saw two different eneagram tests giving two different e types for the same subject making them very suspect. Still it will be interesting to see if something does stand out from the particular short test used.

Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: RE on October 20, 2015, 06:20:05 PM


th IQ test can get the answers and take it again, it then has no value.


One assumes that for the most part the respondents are being honest and also only took the test once and did not cheat it.  This may or may not be true, but there isn't a whole lot of reason to lie either, since the whole thing is anonymous.

Quote
Enneagram is not a personality test it is an ancient occult science. Like 12 signs of the zodiac, Chinese year of the dog, cat, etc,  numerology and palmistry. Those writing about it dont say to take the test first, but reccomended to read the 9 types and see which best applies. The tests are reccomended there if you cant decide. But the tests themselves also can't  decide. We saw two different eneagram tests giving two different e types for the same subject making them very suspect. Still it will be interesting to see if something does stand out from the particular short test used.

It most certainly is a personality test, all those questions are designed to ferret out aspects of your personality.  They are also quite repeatable, at least for me they are across 3 different tests.

For me the Briggs-Myer is not very good or repeatable, in 3 catgories it cannot determine which way I fall.  the Enneagram does much better for me in terms of discrimination of the personality types defined for that test.

RE
Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: RE on October 20, 2015, 09:23:55 PM
THIS IS FABULOUS!

It's doing way better than expected so far, already @ 38 Respondents!  I didn't think so many people would take the time to do all the tests necessary to do the survey.  :icon_sunny:

I am going to watch and see what the dailies are on this one before I decide whether to tally after a week or 2 weeks.  If steady numbers come in I will let it run for 2 weeks before a tally. Bigger Sample Size would be better.

Also, I haven't yet plugged on some collapse websites, mainly we are only getting respondents from the Diner and from Reddit.  I suspect numbers will change significantly if I plug on NBL.

Some of current numbers were predictable, but some others have so far surprised me.  This is a GREAT survey!   :icon_sunny:

RE
Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: roamer on October 20, 2015, 09:33:03 PM
I was surprised by the enneagram, took it three times, drunk sober, caffeinated and also sober and focused.  All three times i fell the same way, 5W6.  Never gave a shit as to how i answered and surprisingly i fell out in a consistent pattern, even more surprisingly it was insightful and seemingly accurate in regards to my personality.  MBTI I was on the border and would need to take it a few more times to see.  I don't think these tests mean what most people often think they mean, but I do think they are measuring something consistent just based on my own results. 
Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: RE on October 21, 2015, 06:15:28 AM
I was surprised by the enneagram, took it three times, drunk sober, caffeinated and also sober and focused.  All three times i fell the same way, 5W6.  Never gave a shit as to how i answered and surprisingly i fell out in a consistent pattern, even more surprisingly it was insightful and seemingly accurate in regards to my personality.  MBTI I was on the border and would need to take it a few more times to see.  I don't think these tests mean what most people often think they mean, but I do think they are measuring something consistent just based on my own results.

I got the same results from the EN.  Regardless of whether I was sober, drunk, caffeinated or loaded with Percocets I got the same result every time, 8w7.  I also tried 3 different tests for this.  It seems very consistent for me.  Contrast with the B-M test, I can't elucidate jack shit from that test about my personality.  Out of 16 possible types, I could be 8 of them.  The EN also seems to match with my real personality in terms of its descriptors.

I am a little sorry I did not include a link to an MMPI test in the survey, although 3 tests was already stretching the limit of what most people will do.

Hope to get  some more respondents over the next week or two.  However, results so far are already pretty interesting.

RE
Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: RE on October 21, 2015, 10:40:19 AM
The Psych Collapse Profile Survey is now up to 44 Respondents and producing VERY interesting results on both the Psych Profiling and Demographic levels!  I am quite surprised by the demographics so far actually.  Also surprised this many people are taking the time necessary to do these tests.

RE
Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: Petty Tyrant on October 21, 2015, 10:42:02 AM
use of tests like mmpi is supposed to be regulated, so i googled 'free online mmpi' and found this....


As of last week, an online version of the test cannot currently be found anywhere on the Internet. I am sure someone will post it soon. However, in the meantime, the code for the test is available and, therefore, you can still take the MMPI-2 for free (with the added bonus that...


It must get removed regularly by authorities associated with the ama.

answering several hundred questions that are not automatically interpreted gets well away from fortune/type telling fun anyway. Thats already clear from complaints the mb is creating some profiles saying 'its complex' instead of 'you met one you met them all'.

Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: RE on October 21, 2015, 10:48:24 AM
use of tests like mmpi is supposed to be regulated, so i googled 'free online mmpi' and found this....


As of last week, an online version of the test cannot currently be found anywhere on the Internet. I am sure someone will post it soon. However, in the meantime, the code for the test is available and, therefore, you can still take the MMPI-2 for free (with the added bonus that...


It must get removed regularly by authorities associated with the ama.

answering several hundred questions that are not automatically interpreted gets well away from fortune/type telling fun anyway. Thats already clear from complaints the mb is creating some profiles saying 'its complex' instead of 'you met one you met them all'.

At least as far as Roamer and me are concerned, it appears you do not need 100s of questions, 100 or so will do with the Enneagram and give you consistent results.  It appears to be a better measure than the MMPI and B-M so far for me.

RE
Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: Petty Tyrant on October 21, 2015, 11:48:08 AM
use of tests like mmpi is supposed to be regulated, so i googled 'free online mmpi' and found this....


As of last week, an online version of the test cannot currently be found anywhere on the Internet. I am sure someone will post it soon. However, in the meantime, the code for the test is available and, therefore, you can still take the MMPI-2 for free (with the added bonus that...


It must get removed regularly by authorities associated with the ama.

answering several hundred questions that are not automatically interpreted gets well away from fortune/type telling fun anyway. Thats already clear from complaints the mb is creating some profiles saying 'its complex' instead of 'you met one you met them all'.

At least as far as Roamer and me are concerned, it appears you do not need 100s of questions, 100 or so will do with the Enneagram and give you consistent results.  It appears to be a better measure than the MMPI and B-M so far for me.

RE

better measure of what? Think about the literal meaning of profile, a side view, in this case of all the scales onto a graph. Just because they are not automatically interpreted into a description by a computer does not mean they failed to measure what they are intended to. 

For the eneagram, unless you read all the different types and wings, just because taking the test several times in a day or week yeilds the same result does not mean its the right result. I could take it ten times and get 8w7 ten times, then read all the types and find 8w9 fits much better, was it really a good measure? Thats why making tests much longer makes them more valid.

Title: Psychological Profiles of Collapse Rolling In!
Post by: RE on October 21, 2015, 05:02:11 PM
PPoCs have now topped 50!  :icon_sunny:

We may even get to 100 before I run the first spreadsheet for a count!

Even if not, the 51 so far surveyed show VERY distinct Typing on both the Enneagram & Briggs-Myers testing.  Also quite interesting is the Demographic information on these 51 (so far) Doomers!  :o

RE
Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: roamer on October 21, 2015, 07:43:36 PM
Care to give a snapshot of the results to far?  I'm pretty curious, i've had a hunch for a while that the doomsphere could be characterized by a pretty narrow psychological type.  Found this over at do the math to support the case http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2015/04/programmed-to-ignore/ (http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2015/04/programmed-to-ignore/)

Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: RE on October 21, 2015, 08:29:06 PM
Care to give a snapshot of the results to far?  I'm pretty curious, i've had a hunch for a while that the doomsphere could be characterized by a pretty narrow psychological type.  Found this over at do the math to support the case http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2015/04/programmed-to-ignore/ (http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2015/04/programmed-to-ignore/)

Sorry, no HINTS until I compile the results.  :icon_mrgreen:  I don't want to skew the data.

Now at 54 Respondents, doing better than expected for such a long and complicated survey/tests.

RE
Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: Surly1 on October 22, 2015, 02:05:48 AM
Care to give a snapshot of the results to far?  I'm pretty curious, i've had a hunch for a while that the doomsphere could be characterized by a pretty narrow psychological type.  Found this over at do the math to support the case http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2015/04/programmed-to-ignore/ (http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2015/04/programmed-to-ignore/)

Sorry, no HINTS until I compile the results.  :icon_mrgreen:  I don't want to skew the data.

Now at 54 Respondents, doing better than expected for such a long and complicated survey/tests.

RE

I got the sense from discussion in  the space last week that the results were anything but categorizable to a narrow type. That the types were all over the map, as it were.
Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: RE on October 22, 2015, 07:13:15 AM
Care to give a snapshot of the results to far?  I'm pretty curious, i've had a hunch for a while that the doomsphere could be characterized by a pretty narrow psychological type.  Found this over at do the math to support the case http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2015/04/programmed-to-ignore/ (http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2015/04/programmed-to-ignore/)

Sorry, no HINTS until I compile the results.  :icon_mrgreen:  I don't want to skew the data.

Now at 54 Respondents, doing better than expected for such a long and complicated survey/tests.

RE

I got the sense from discussion in  the space last week that the results were anything but categorizable to a narrow type. That the types were all over the map, as it were.

We had a very small sample size last week, only around 6 or so regular and active Diners took the tests and published their results.  Now we have a much larger pool, and are now up to 58 respondents.  With the larger numbers, distinct patterns are emerging.

RE
Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: Surly1 on October 22, 2015, 08:05:28 AM
Care to give a snapshot of the results to far?  I'm pretty curious, i've had a hunch for a while that the doomsphere could be characterized by a pretty narrow psychological type.  Found this over at do the math to support the case http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2015/04/programmed-to-ignore/ (http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2015/04/programmed-to-ignore/)

Sorry, no HINTS until I compile the results.  :icon_mrgreen:  I don't want to skew the data.

Now at 54 Respondents, doing better than expected for such a long and complicated survey/tests.

RE

I got the sense from discussion in  the space last week that the results were anything but categorizable to a narrow type. That the types were all over the map, as it were.

We had a very small sample size last week, only around 6 or so regular and active Diners took the tests and published their results.  Now we have a much larger pool, and are now up to 58 respondents.  With the larger numbers, distinct patterns are emerging.

RE

I'm betting you can guess mine.
Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: RE on October 22, 2015, 08:08:18 AM
Care to give a snapshot of the results to far?  I'm pretty curious, i've had a hunch for a while that the doomsphere could be characterized by a pretty narrow psychological type.  Found this over at do the math to support the case http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2015/04/programmed-to-ignore/ (http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2015/04/programmed-to-ignore/)

Sorry, no HINTS until I compile the results.  :icon_mrgreen:  I don't want to skew the data.

Now at 54 Respondents, doing better than expected for such a long and complicated survey/tests.

RE

I got the sense from discussion in  the space last week that the results were anything but categorizable to a narrow type. That the types were all over the map, as it were.

We had a very small sample size last week, only around 6 or so regular and active Diners took the tests and published their results.  Now we have a much larger pool, and are now up to 58 respondents.  With the larger numbers, distinct patterns are emerging.

RE

I'm betting you can guess mine.

I leave the guesswork to Eddie.  I just collect the numbers.  lol.

RE
Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: K-Dog on October 22, 2015, 01:34:14 PM


th IQ test can get the answers and take it again, it then has no value.

Enneagram is not a personality test it is an ancient occult science. Like 12 signs of the zodiac, Chinese year of the dog, cat, etc,  numerology and palmistry. Those writing about it dont say to take the test first, but reccomended to read the 9 types and see which best applies. The tests are reccomended there if you cant decide. But the tests themselves also can't  decide. We saw two different eneagram tests giving two different e types for the same subject making them very suspect. Still it will be interesting to see if something does stand out from the particular short test used.

if you are referring to me I felt a difference in my mood while taking the two different tests.  In the first engram test I feel I was definitely overthinking a few of the questio ns which I did not do on my second run.  In another thread I posted a pic of Dr Jekyll / Mr. Hyde,the point of that being that one category may not fit a particular person at all times which we forget in our desire to want a test to give meaningful results.  I might do the intelligence and personality tests over the weekend but intelligence tests for me typically vary between 116 and 155.  I might get really stoned before I take the tests if I do.  That would accurately reflect my reality but not as much as it used to. 

An average doomer score of 130 for IQ seems high.  I need to look up how many standard deviations off the norm 130 is.  We are definitely off the norm in many ways and being able to both tie one's shoes without drooling and being able to communicate in complete sentences is a requirement for one to appreciate doom.  Therefore I won't say 130 is absolutely out of the question.  I'll just say I'm suspicious.
Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: RE on October 22, 2015, 01:49:54 PM


th IQ test can get the answers and take it again, it then has no value.

Enneagram is not a personality test it is an ancient occult science. Like 12 signs of the zodiac, Chinese year of the dog, cat, etc,  numerology and palmistry. Those writing about it dont say to take the test first, but reccomended to read the 9 types and see which best applies. The tests are reccomended there if you cant decide. But the tests themselves also can't  decide. We saw two different eneagram tests giving two different e types for the same subject making them very suspect. Still it will be interesting to see if something does stand out from the particular short test used.

if you are referring to me I felt a difference in my mood while taking the two different tests.  In the first engram test I feel I was definitely overthinking a few of the questio ns which I did not do on my second run.  In another thread I posted a pic of Dr Jekyll / Mr. Hyde,the point of that being that one category may not fit a particular person at all times which we forget in our desire to want a test to give meaningful results.  I might do the intelligence and personality tests over the weekend but intelligence tests for me typically vary between 116 and 155.  I might get really stoned before I take the tests if I do.  That would accurately reflect my reality but not as much as it used to. 

An average doomer score of 130 for IQ seems high.  I need to look up how many standard deviations off the norm 130 is.  We are definitely off the norm in many ways and being able to both tie one's shoes without drooling and being able to communicate in complete sentences is a requirement for one to appreciate doom.  Therefore I won't say 130 is absolutely out of the question.  I'll just say I'm suspicious.

130 is right at 2 SD.  It seems a bit high to me as well, they may have it calibrated to give a high result so people feel better about themselves and can say they are smart.  lol.  I'd guess 120 is the average IQ for the typical doomer.  One thing to consider is it's a pretty well educated group with mostly Bachelors and Masters degrees.

RE
Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: Petty Tyrant on October 22, 2015, 02:52:13 PM
Kdog,
For the founders of the Intelligence Quotient (IQ)100 is the 50th percentile, 130 is the 95th percentile And 140 is the 98th percentile. Using the term IQ for the free tests rather than the stanford-binet or wais that actually set the median at 100 is misleading if you expect the median to be 100. Your lower score mentioned would be the one where the median is set at 100 and not possibly110 as in this free test.  Having said that i have no doubt majority of diners are above 90th percentile.

 Re the enneagram giving u different types with different moods and  your overthinking on one test; For the type of tests with high validity there are written instructions which either the test administrator reads out or the test taker reads on an instruction sheet before doing the test. On personalty tests the instructions are not to overthink the questions, because they ask the same thing several times in different words to pick up where u are at.

I know nothing about the enneagram except what eddie has posted, but that includes the information that it is a diagram with lines drawn between various numbers like a pentagram. Some of those lines relate to the corresponding stress point number and relaxation point number for your type. Your different moods could or maybe should relate to particular corresponding numbers then from the info eddie posted somewhere in the thread or u could just search it in google.

Tests such as the mmpi are also meant to yield varying profile at different times in life depending on learning. You dont expect the same man in middle age to be as impulsive as in youth. But there are stable traits too, for the BM there will be a lot of INTJ in the serious, forward thinking, pessimist nature of the diners. Keep in mind that pessimists are proven to be more realistic than optimists, so i would prefer to call them realists.
Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: cosmicpixie on October 23, 2015, 10:17:13 PM
Took the profile survey. I really like the little IQ test. It's only 20 questions, but it matched my score as approximated by the old SATs (add verbal and math only, drop the trailing zero, and you've got your score approximated--plus or minus 4 points).
Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: RE on October 23, 2015, 10:20:51 PM
Took the profile survey. I really like the little IQ test. It's only 20 questions, but it matched my score as approximated by the old SATs (add verbal and math only, drop the trailing zero, and you've got your score approximated--plus or minus 4 points).

:hi: to the Diner CP!

I never knew that about the old SATs.  Interesting.

RE
Title: Collapse Personality Profile Update
Post by: RE on October 27, 2015, 06:05:09 AM


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Published on the Doomstead Diner on October 27, 2015



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Discuss this article at the Survey Table inside the Diner



TAKE THE COLLAPSE PERSONALITY PROFILE SURVEY HERE



I'm going to hold off on publishing FULL RESULTS of the Collapse Personality Profile Survey TM until next week, because the results coming in so far are absolutely FASCINATING and I don't want to skew further respondents answers by giving away too much of what has come in so far.  We have around ~80 respondents to the survey in the first week, and I will tell you that watching the numbers accumulate, the percentages for each category have not changed much if at all from the first ~20 or so to the current ~80. What that means in statistical terms is that the results are invariant in terms of sample size in this population.  So it's pretty valid already, but still I want another week's worth of data in there before doing a final crunching of the numbers on the spreadsheet for the Personality and IQ data.



What I will fill in on in for this week is the Demographics, which mostly I expected but in some areas i was surprised. 



The first surprising area was Doomer Gender.  My experience across the net over the last 8 years or so has been 10% or even less of the participants on Doom Websites were female.  However, the Survey Sez that the percentage of females haunting the Doom-o-sphere TM is actually around 20%!
























 

Male

Female

Other

Standard Deviation

Responses

All Data

62

(80.52%)


15

(19.48%)


0

(0%)


26.41

77


So with Doomer Females, it seems likely that only half of those who read Doom (and will do an anonymous survey also) actually will ever post up on a Doomsite TM.  That is an anecdotal WAG based on my own experience, not scientific.  lol.



Unsurprisly, most Doomers are White Males from North America with a formal education of Bacheors Degree or better:






























 

High School

Associates Degree

Bachelors Degree

Masters Degree

Doctoral Degree

Other

Standard Deviation

Responses

All Data

10

(12.99%)


10

(12.99%)


27

(35.06%)


16

(20.78%)


5

(6.49%)


9

(11.69%)


7.1

77





























 

White

Black

Brown

Red

Yellow

Albino

Standard Deviation

Responses

All Data

68

(90.67%)


3

(4%)


1

(1.33%)


1

(1.33%)


2

(2.67%)


0

(0%)


24.84

75







































 

North America

Central America

South America

Western Europe

Eastern Europe

North Africa

Sub-Saharan Africa

Middle East

North Asia

Southeast Asia

Australia/New Zealand

Standard Deviation

Responses

All Data

53

(68.83%)


0

(0%)


1

(1.3%)


16

(20.78%)


1

(1.3%)


0

(0%)


0

(0%)


0

(0%)


2

(2.6%)


1

(1.3%)


3

(3.9%)


15.2

77


The most surprising to me Demographic was the Age Distribution!   My experience has been that most Doomers are Boomers, aka people around age 50-70.  This does not seem to be the case at all though, rather Doomers are distributed pretty evenly through all generations, although the Gen X-Y group is dominant here.




































 

<18

18-24

25-29

30-39

40-49

50-59

60-69

70-79

80+

Standard Deviation

Responses

All Data

0

(0%)


4

(5.19%)


13

(16.88%)


18

(23.38%)


13

(16.88%)


13

(16.88%)


14

(18.18%)


2

(2.6%)


0

(0%)


6.57

77


I will save the stats on Personality Typing and IQ for next week, other than to say that Doomers appear to be a good deal Smarter than the Average Bear by the measure of a short IQ Test.   I was a bit surprised at how many actually took that test and reported their results.  Whether everyone was honest about it  or did not cheat the test I don't know.   Based on the average level of education though, I think this average IQ is probably valid, although perhaps up-skewed 5-10 points.



Next week I will publish the actual PERSONALITY of DOOMERS results, which are actually even more interesting. :)  So if you have not yet already done so, you have one more week to take the tests and answer the survey before I run the spreadsheet for this tally!



TAKE THE COLLAPSE PERSONALITY PROFILE SURVEY HERE


Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: Eddie on October 27, 2015, 07:34:30 AM
Very interesting, and hopefully some of folks out there got some good information they can use...at least some personal insights. Glad that there are some female participants, even if they don't post. It'd be better if they did post, imho, because their voice is important...but I'm not surprised, as females these days have learned to be careful about interacting with strangers in cyberspace.
Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: RE on October 27, 2015, 07:50:42 AM
Very interesting, and hopefully some of folks out there got some good information they can use...at least some personal insights. Glad that there are some female participants, even if they don't post. It'd be better if they did post, imho, because their voice is important...but I'm not surprised, as females these days have learned to be careful about interacting with strangers in cyberspace.

We actually got 2 new female Diners recently, Fenixor and Cosmic Pixie.  I got CP over here after having a fairly heated argument with her over a link I dropped on r/globalcollapse about loss of interest in sex in the population.

RE
Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: Mister Roboto on October 28, 2015, 06:21:13 AM
I think the geography stats might be somewhat biased by the fact that The Doomstead Diner is an English-language website (though you may have versions available in other languages about which I don't know because sometimes I don't pay as close attention as I should, which I attribute to "collapse fatigue", LOL). I wonder how many of that 16 from Western Europe are from the UK or Ireland?

When I took the survey, I used results from previous online tests I took for the Myers-Briggs and IQ. I actually scale the estimate of my IQ down about five points from the result I got all those years ago because having an IQ of just 130 still puts me in the smartest five percent of the population, and that's a pretty select group intellectually. My MB type is INFJ with INFP tendencies. My Enneagram type is 4w5. (I took the test for that linked on the DD site.) I am also a Taurus Sun, Pisces Moon, Cancer Rising. I can seriously get stuff done when I put my mind to it (though I tend to be a rather slower mover than most), but I am not at all ambitious and am remarkably lacking in leadership qualities. However, by no stretch of the imagination am I a Kool-Aid drinker or a blind follower. My demeanor and attitude can be "Eeyore-like" at times.

I am a forty-eight year old homosexual caucasian male of western European descent living in a major Midwestern city in the USA. I have a BA degree that has proven to be of no utility to me in the sort of employment I have been able to obtain so far. I am also diabetic with a significant number of attendant health complications. I don't expect to survive the onset of collapse for very long barring some sort of Divine intervention, and I have made my peace with that. I consider myself the product of a rather dysfunctional family, but that's hardly anything extraordinary these days. I am currently socially isolated because it has never been easy for me to make friends, and the fact that we live in a socially atomized society full of morons and money-worshippers sure doesn't help.

So that's Mister Roboto in a thumbnail sketch.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: RE on October 28, 2015, 06:41:54 AM
I think the geography stats might be somewhat biased by the fact that The Doomstead Diner is an English-language website (though you may have versions available in other languages about which I don't know because sometimes I don't pay as close attention as I should, which I attribute to "collapse fatigue", LOL). I wonder how many of that 16 from Western Europe are from the UK or Ireland?

When I took the survey, I used results from previous online tests I took for the Myers-Briggs and IQ. I actually scale the estimate of my IQ down about five points from the result I got all those years ago because having an IQ of just 130 still puts me in the smartest five percent of the population, and that's a pretty select group intellectually. My MB type is INFJ with INFP tendencies. My Enneagram type is 4w5. (I took the test for that linked on the DD site.) I am also a Taurus Sun, Pisces Moon, Cancer Rising. I can seriously get stuff done when I put my mind to it (though I tend to be a rather slower mover than most), but I am not at all ambitious and seriously lack leadership qualities. However, by no stretch of the imagination am I a Kool-Aid drinker or a blind follower.

I am a forty-eight year old homosexual caucasian male living in a major Midwestern city in the USA with a BA degree that has proven of no utility to me in the sort of employment I have been able to obtain so far. I am also diabetic with a significant number of attendant health complications. I don't expect to survive the onset of collapse for very long barring some sort of Divine intervention, and I have made my peace with that. I consider myself the product of a rather dysfunctional family, but that's hardly anything extraordinary these days. I am currently socially isolated because it has never been easy for me to make friends, and the fact that we live in a socially atomized society full of morons and money-worshippers sure doesn't help.

So that's Mister Roboto in a thumbnail sketch.  :laugh:

The survey is EXTREMELY skewed against the general population.

It is only semi-valid within the community of people concerned with Doom Issues.

RE
Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: Mister Roboto on October 28, 2015, 07:02:03 AM
Quote
The survey is EXTREMELY skewed against the general population.

It is only semi-valid within the community of people concerned with Doom Issues.

Well, anyone who didn't at least suspect that would turn out to be the case probably hasn't been a Doomer for very long!  ;D   :laugh:   :coffee:
Title: Psychological Profiles of Collapse Survey Update
Post by: RE on October 28, 2015, 12:56:49 PM
The Survey has now moved into the Triple Digits of Respondents!  :icon_sunny:  @105 right now.

The results so far are truly astounding.  The Profile of a typical Kollapsnik TM is very clear.

Also, in email I did get a validation on the IQ test.  One fellow said he has taken numerous since 7th Grade and always falls in the same range within 4 points or so, and this test gave the same result.  I'm not sure anymore that it runs 10 points to the high side.  It may just be that Kollapsniks TM are really smart people, at least measured by IQ.  LOL.

Any guesses on the top Enneagram Type/Wing?  The leader is 1st by a long shot, and has been so since the early returns came in.

Also, by far most people who took the personality tests think they correctly pegged their personality.  There is something to this.

RE
Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: Mister Roboto on October 28, 2015, 07:49:01 PM
Type 1, eh? So I guess that makes me the oddball around here. Well, I would be a sorry excuse for an Individualist (Type 4) if I weren't an oddball, right?   ;D

Though I guess my secondary INFP qualities can relate to the Type 1s around here. Even though I put myself down for "full doom", I probably come down somewhere in between John Michael Greer and Dmitry Orlov on the collapse spectrum. And that's probably because I don't really feel intellectually equipped to say just how bad things will get and what things will be like once the dust settles. Though I do frequently think JMG is a tad too optimistic sometimes, especially lately.

Even though this isn't a very spiritual thing to say, I must remark that if the rich (at least the ones who don't manage to get away to whatever lavishly equipped doom-redoubts they have (http://"http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/superyacht-getaway-subs-and-luxury-bomb-shelters-the-elite-are-the-most-paranoid-preppers-of-all")) do end up swinging from the lampposts, I'm going to have an awfully difficult time feeling at all sorry for them.
Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: cosmicpixie on November 03, 2015, 09:30:05 PM
I'll post eventually. There are a few topics I would like to touch on. I'm concerned about the plights women would face in a post-collapse scenario--living through childbirth and the post partum period comes to mind. I'm concerned about the provision of medical care (for all people) in a time of resource scarcity. I'm interested in sharing what it is like to be a woman in this time--and what it's been like growing up. There's a lot of fantasy and speculation in the narrative of collapse, and little of it involves a realistic picture of what daily life would be like for women. Giving a context for understanding the very cliche "lived experience of a woman" makes for better discussion. I have other interests. I like making soap. I have some ideas for improving solar cell efficiency. We'll see.
Title: Re: Survey: Psychological Profiles of Collapse - Results: Future of Energy
Post by: RE on November 03, 2015, 09:46:02 PM
I'll post eventually. There are a few topics I would like to touch on. I'm concerned about the plights women would face in a post-collapse scenario--living through childbirth and the post partum period comes to mind. I'm concerned about the provision of medical care (for all people) in a time of resource scarcity. I'm interested in sharing what it is like to be a woman in this time--and what it's been like growing up. There's a lot of fantasy and speculation in the narrative of collapse, and little of it involves a realistic picture of what daily life would be like for women. Giving a context for understanding the very cliche "lived experience of a woman" makes for better discussion. I have other interests. I like making soap. I have some ideas for improving solar cell efficiency. We'll see.

More commentary from the 16% of Female Doomers out there always :hi:

RE