Doomstead Diner Menu => Energy => Topic started by: Nearingsfault on February 06, 2017, 10:16:51 AM

Title: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on February 06, 2017, 10:16:51 AM
I've been interested in collapse for a very long time.  After lurking for a while on the diner I thought I would share one of my favorite projects.  This is my 1953 ferguson tea20 tractor.  It has been modified to run on charcoal.  Charcoal gasification suits my cold woodland.
The full thread can be found here: http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/my-charcoal-tractor/1200 (http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/my-charcoal-tractor/1200)
Here is a video of it running:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQHN7lGI6ok (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQHN7lGI6ok)
and a stationary walk around
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DKOWNKsl30 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DKOWNKsl30)
The theory I was working on was the fuel to run the machinery will run out long before the machines stop working. This Era of tractor was made to survive as well.  Every part for it is still available and it was the most common tractor of its day so spares are still common. Fixed with hand tools and made to run even in poor repair. I'm a great fan of manual labour but I want to put it off as long as possible as the long descent gets under way. It can log, plow, cultivate, pull trailers, you name it.
Best regards, David Baillie
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on February 06, 2017, 10:44:34 AM
This is the T20 gasoline version, that you've converted to run on wood gas? We have T20's here, but the Ford 8N is the more common antique. Pretty much the same piece of equipment, though, in terms of design.

The best garden tractor (imho) is neither one of those, but rather the IH Farmall, with the non-hydraulic implements. My grandfather had one and my Dad got a second one when I was a kid. I knew every inch of those machines inside and out. In fact that's about my level of competence on mechanical things...understanding a 12 HP low compression tractor with no hydraulic pump. I expect you could convert one of those without too much trouble? Dunno.

I've gone to a brand new diesel, but they are well past my level of competence to work on, and completely dependent on BAU. But I can dig post holes (with my Belltec TM 48) and move big things about with my hydraulic grapple, which is the shit. First one of those I ever had. It's nice until the fuel runs out.

I have three  semi-basket case diesel tractors. Too bad they can't be converted. I suppose they can burn cooking oil, but when BAU ceases, that won't be in surplus anymore.

I'm unclear...do you burn wood in that refractory thingie, producing wood gas that runs the tractor? Or are you burning charcoal? What it the "cyclone"  and what does it do?
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on February 06, 2017, 11:01:57 AM
There was one of these (maybe this one, it looked identical) for sale on Craigslist a few years ago here. Another interesting tractor hack.

(http://www.motherearthnews.com/~/media/Images/MEN/Editorial/Blogs/Green%20Transportation/Our%20Solar%20Powered%20Tractor/solar-tractor%20jpg.jpg?la=en&hash=DE54C97B1202E00A02D9DDEEA94BF1BA6CAAF72C)

I might be able to build one of these, given the right forklift motor and plenty of batteries. It looked interesting. Not quite as practical as yours, perhaps. Do you get the same power out of the tractor as if it were burning normal petrol?
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on February 06, 2017, 12:13:32 PM
The difference between the 8 n and the ferguson is very small.  In the us they even used the same engine.  In Canada they used the standard engine from England a little better.  Replaceable cam shaft bearings, cylinder wet liners and over head valves; all common now all rare then.  I burn charcoal in my tractor.  There are units that run on raw wood but they are much more complex and perfectly matched to their engine size.  The unit on the tractor will also run a 2500 to 6000 watt generator.  Power loss on charcoal is 25-30%. 
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on February 06, 2017, 01:42:51 PM
Eddie the cyclone removes any dust from the gas before it goes to the final filter for cleaning.  Those old lower compression diesels you talk about can be converted but it's a pain though.  More common would be to Co fuel with Woodgas to 80 percent diesel replacement.  Where you are if open fields are available you could plant some canola just as easily.  Where I am flat tillable ground is rare, wooded Rocky ground however... the long term plan was heat the house and greenhouse using wood, create the charcoal as a byproduct, and run machinery to stay alive.  It's a work in progress.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on February 06, 2017, 04:50:25 PM
My land is not sufficient to grow enough Canola to run equipment, I don't think. I have rocks and woods too. There are open fields around but not a lot on my place, which I chose (before I became a  doomer) for the creek and and the woods. Properties with live water are hard to come by in these parts unless you happen to be rich, and I'm not, having pissed away my fortune college-educating four kids and living larger than I ever had a right to do (just ask RE, LOL.) I thought I was very lucky to run across my little patch. It is beautiful, as LD and RE can tell you, but it's hardly real farmland. We import dirt here, for gardening. LOL. Our natural soil is this rocky alkaline black clay that you can never add enough acid to to balance the pH. I garden in raised beds mostly, although it is my goal to grow fodder for my animals on my bottom land. I might be able to do that better indoors though, with aquaculture. One or the other, I hope.

I like your plan for using the wood twice. Are you into thermal mass rocket heaters at all? Does your furnace make charcoal somehow?
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on February 06, 2017, 05:26:10 PM
Rocket mass heaters are very efficient but the ones that burn cleanest are labour intensive. They also have a tendency to backdraft as they cool.  They were developed for cooking mostly outdoors and for that they are great. The mass heaters well... as long as people don't pretend they are bending the laws of physics I'm good with them.  By that I mean a pound of dry wood has about 7000 btu in it if you could extract 100 percent of the energy (which you can't ).  The way the high priests of the rocket mass heaters talk you would think they were heating entire buildings with a few twigs. I find tlud (top lit up draft gasifiers) stoves outperform the rocket stoves anyways and they leave charcoal, or biochar if you prefer, behind. I make my charcoal either in my wood stove shoveling off coals or in a tlud stove.  I also make charcoal in a double 50 gallon barrel retort.  Eventually I need to incorporate all of this into my maple syrup boiler and an outside boiler. Lots of projects, never enough time.
Best regards, David Baillie
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on February 06, 2017, 05:40:04 PM
Maple syrup. Lucky man. I LOVE maple syrup. We only have Lost Maples in Texas. It's a primitive park on the Sabinal River, the only place maples naturally occur in the whole state.  I have reason to believe one of my kids was conceived there. :)

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRqH89gI7wUH77HhpETEnpUfuuspijnciHq5cNBvqaxlSLsK-mY)

One place in the whole state they grow. No syrup.

Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on February 06, 2017, 05:47:16 PM
Maples in Texas?  That would never have occurred to me.  They probably would not make sap for syrup because they need to freeze first then thaw.  The sap is stored food from the roots that gets pushed to the branches in spring. We tap sugar maple and red maple here.  I only tap 40 trees and make 3-5 gallons of syrup. None of that namby bamby lowland stuff from Costco its real mountain syrup. (We take our syrup very seriously in these parts).
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on February 07, 2017, 07:14:03 AM
Part 2 has been more fun then useful so far but an atv is a good fast moving heavy hauling platform.  If you can make it go on fuel made from the resources around you all the better.
This one only has about 6 hours of run time on it on charcoal so its still kind of beta.  Its biggest problems have been pre-existing mechanical ones not due to the gasifier itself.
Here is a link to the atv running down the road and through the woods:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsZ7haM0xrA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsZ7haM0xrA)

the full project thread is here:  http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/charcoal-gasifier-for-atv/1757 (http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/charcoal-gasifier-for-atv/1757)
Title: Technology for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on February 08, 2017, 10:33:37 AM
On a short winter day every watt counts.  When we built the house we mounted the panels on the roof.  Our site sits in the trees and it was the only way I could mount an array and not clear cut the south side.  At the time solar was running at $5-6 a watt and 80 watt panels were the cheaper way to buy. total array size is 960 watts which used to be enough.  The house is grid connected today with a section of the electrical panel parcelled off as off grid.  The attached pictures  are of ice and snow covered panels.  I'm cleaning them off after a bad storm last night.  Don't worry I'm not crazy I'm working through a hatch I made in the attic; 28 ft up is a long way down.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on February 08, 2017, 06:08:11 PM
I have noticed that those who have alternative power of some kind  are always much more participatory in making it happen than, and tuned in to whether you currently have a surplus or a deficit. Here's it's mostly dust that builds up.

Do you have certain dedicated loads for the off-grid power?

Nice planning on the hatch.  How often do you end up having to sweep the panels?

I watched the ATV video. It seems to like the charcoal power. Sounded pretty strong.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on February 08, 2017, 06:57:40 PM
I have noticed that those who have alternative power of some kind  are always much more participatory in making it happen than, and tuned in to whether you currently have a surplus or a deficit. Here's it's mostly dust that builds up.

Do you have certain dedicated loads for the off-grid power?

Nice planning on the hatch.  How often do you end up having to sweep the panels?

I watched the ATV video. It seems to like the charcoal power. Sounded pretty strong.
For sectioning off loads I installed a generator back up panel with the double breaker and the lock out switch.  The "Generator" breakers are run by the solar and are always on. If you are working on the system you flick to mains and the grid runs it for you. Its legal too and lets you get your feet wet without taking the full plunge. Solar right now is running the circulator pumps for back up heat, the lights, the water pump, and the UV filter to keep the water drinkable.  In the summer we hook up the fridge and deep freezer.  The creature comforts get run by the grid.  I could do without them but I like remaining married.  As to mind set yes that collapse is happening should be a given by now to anyone listening.  So now what? im only half through my life, my kids are just starting theirs; lets build this already!
Title: Syrup time! ; Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on February 26, 2017, 07:14:59 PM
Maple syrup is a religion in my part of Canada.   About 4 years ago I started playing around with adding syrup boiling to my season extending hoophouse.  Each litre of water that gets boiled off takes approx 2000 btu of energy. That means 60000 to 80000 btu of heat per litre of syrup produced.  Usually getting rid of the steam is as much of a problem as the smoke from the fire.  If one could add even a fraction of that heat to an early spring greenhouse it could advance your time line by a few weeks... 
First link is to my prototype boiler from 3 years ago
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10152242540501676&id=703726675
The attachments show the new boiler design with insulating panels and a bigger firebox.  It ran last season out of the hoophouse due to some delays moving the hoophouse.  Better luck this year I hope.
Title: Tools for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 11, 2017, 09:24:54 AM
The kids are getting dirty in the hoophouse.  It's - 15 outside and windy.  4 degrees celcius in the hoophouse. It's still to early to think of planting but time to start covering the beds to warm them up.  You can see some sad looking kale in the background.  Its still edible and it will start regrowing soon. The plastic covering lasts about 7 years. I have a spare from buying a larger roll.  Part of my version of prepping.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on March 11, 2017, 09:34:36 AM
With your spare plastic sheeting, you are now up to 14 years of time before going Extinct.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 11, 2017, 09:41:30 AM
Honestly the plastic will do 10 easy.  They recommend changing it at 7 years to maximize the transfer of light for fruiting plants.  Greens and season extention would be unchanged.  14 years is a lot longer then nothing.  It would give me time to practice metalurgical skills or my stone tool making.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on March 11, 2017, 10:56:10 AM
Cute kids! I remember when my girls were that age. What is the large black pipe running through the bed? Heated water?

I need to put tomatoes int the ground today. I have some I bought that were bucket raised early in the greenhouse. They already have fruit, not ripe of course. 80's F today here. It's so warm now you have to get tomatoes to bloom by late March if you want to grow more than vines.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 11, 2017, 11:04:53 AM
Oh the horrors of a hot climate!  The hoops you see in the bed are for a secondary low hoop grow tunnel.  Inside the hoophouse where the wind can't get it it can be fairly flimsy.  Elliot coleman goes one level further and covers the ground in a remay cloth as well.  It's all about maximising heat absorbsion and retention at this time of year. I'll start adding water to the soil when standing water stays liquid overnight.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on March 11, 2017, 11:12:06 AM
Oh the horrors of a hot climate!  The hoops you see in the bed are for a secondary low hoop grow tunnel.  Inside the hoophouse where the wind can't get it it can be fairly flimsy.  Elliot coleman goes one level further and covers the ground in a remay cloth as well.  It's all about maximising heat absorbsion and retention at this time of year. I'll start adding water to the soil when standing water stays liquid overnight.

I know what the hoops are for. I was trying to ascertain the purpose of those larger black pipes running longitudinally on the ground.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 11, 2017, 11:17:35 AM
I think you are seeing the lip of the garden bed.  They are fish hatching tanks picked up as scrap when we aquired the hoophouse.  They were too good to leave behind;thick walled fiberglass. Non rotting raised beds.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on March 11, 2017, 11:18:57 AM
Ah! Now I see. Got it.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 11, 2017, 12:12:10 PM
With your spare plastic sheeting, you are now up to 14 years of time before going Extinct.

RE
It's all about buying time and in the meantime maximizing your potential yields. I don't think plastic sheeting will be around forever. I'll use it as long as I can.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on March 11, 2017, 04:15:30 PM
14 years is a lot longer then nothing.  It would give me time to practice metalurgical skills or my stone tool making.

Fair enough, but you won't have access to all the videos on YouTube then.  You could start downloading them now and hope you can keep a laptop working, or at least buy books.  However, if you get started now, you'll be way ahead of the game with all the resources available.

RE
Title: Amazing level of skill
Post by: Nearingsfault on April 09, 2017, 10:16:33 AM
If you have ever tried to do sheet metal work you should understand how incredibly talented these men are. A gasifier friend sent me the link.  These skills used to be much more present in our part of the world.  It's good to see they still live on somewhere.
https://youtu.be/YNXQKCrpkJE
Title: Re: Amazing level of skill
Post by: Surly1 on April 09, 2017, 10:59:03 AM
If you have ever tried to do sheet metal work you should understand how incredibly talented these men are. A gasifier friend sent me the link.  These skills used to be much more present in our part of the world.  It's good to see they still live on somewhere.
https://youtu.be/YNXQKCrpkJE (https://youtu.be/YNXQKCrpkJE)

Amazing is right. Wow.

A remarkable combination of ingenuity and necessity. What you get in a place where people waste nothing because they have nothing to waste. As opposed to people with first world problems, who habitually throw appliances away because we fix nothing.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TREmhOgn9LQ/Twtmlc2jGJI/AAAAAAAABrM/SW6CnvJkASM/s1600/first+world+problems.jpg)

Nice way to start the week.
Title: Re: Amazing level of skill
Post by: RE on April 09, 2017, 01:51:30 PM
If you have ever tried to do sheet metal work you should understand how incredibly talented these men are. A gasifier friend sent me the link.  These skills used to be much more present in our part of the world.  It's good to see they still live on somewhere.
https://youtu.be/YNXQKCrpkJE

Now there's a skill worth learning that should last about a century until the sheet metal left around is too rusted to work.

RE
Title: How Sheet Metal is Made
Post by: RE on April 09, 2017, 02:07:41 PM
Takes a lot of energy to make the steel barrels the stove makers use as raw material for their product.

http://www.youtube.com/v/9l7JqonyoKA

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on April 09, 2017, 02:23:46 PM
Do you honestly believe that these people or their descendants would not adapt to dwindling supplies of sheet metal?
Title: How did those Steel Barrels GET to Africa to make stoves from?
Post by: RE on April 09, 2017, 02:31:15 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/38/CSCL_Globe_arriving_at_Felixstowe%2C_United_Kingdom.jpg/1200px-CSCL_Globe_arriving_at_Felixstowe%2C_United_Kingdom.jpg)

(http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/n-yp39j5/kthbr/images/stencil/600x600/products/2155/7075/10193__81234.1406237524.jpg?c=2)

What was in those barrels before they were emptied to make stoves from?

(https://img.clipartfest.com/e518c229c40f670b996ea88529029bfb_images-for-oil-barrel-png-crude-oil-barrel-clipart_1200-900.jpeg)

So in the not too distant future (quite a bit <100 years), the Stovemakers will not be getting new barrels to make stoves from.

Now, here in Amerika, we do have a large reservoir of sheet metal from which to make stoves for a while...

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/f1/4e/cb/f14ecbebfcf175bec3346dda31232df2.jpg)

However, you do have to get to the junkyard to cut the steel off the cars and then get it back to your village to turn it into stoves.  How will you do that?

(https://civilwartalk.com/attachments/buggy-7-jpg.92826/)

Hopefully you can make a few trips to the junkyard before the old carz are too rusty to make good stoves.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on April 09, 2017, 02:36:55 PM
No you would take possession of the scrap yard manufacture in place only moving finished goods...
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on April 09, 2017, 02:37:06 PM
Do you honestly believe that these people or their descendants would not adapt to dwindling supplies of sheet metal?

Of course they would.  They would use STONE AGE TECHNOLOGY.

http://www.youtube.com/v/uZGFTmK6Yk4

The point I am making is the scavenging paradigm for metal working is a short lived skill set overall.

Beat the rush and learn Stone Age skills today!  :icon_sunny:

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on April 09, 2017, 02:39:51 PM
No you would take possession of the scrap yard manufacture in place only moving finished goods...

Scrap yards generally do not have good sources of potable water near them.  So instead of shipping the metal out, you have to ship the water in. Not to mention the food to feed the guys working in the scrap yard and living there who don't have time to do farming.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on April 09, 2017, 03:32:25 PM
Do you honestly believe that these people or their descendants would not adapt to dwindling supplies of sheet metal?

Of course they would.  They would use STONE AGE TECHNOLOGY.

http://www.youtube.com/v/uZGFTmK6Yk4

The point I am making is the scavenging paradigm for metal working is a short lived skill set overall.

Beat the rush and learn Stone Age skills today!  :icon_sunny:

RE
Your vision for the future is nothing if not consistent.  I quite like those videos.  I would like to see him use the same machine he spends so much time building week after week to see how much of a stash he could amass.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on April 09, 2017, 03:39:33 PM

Your vision for the future is nothing if not consistent.  I quite like those videos.  I would like to see him use the same machine he spends so much time building week after week to see how much of a stash he could amass.

I try to stay consistent, and you can go all the way back to 2008 and my monetary theory posts all are internally consistent.  I didn't arrive at the primitive end game so quickly, for the first couple of years I was in the Amish 1750 Tech camp.

This fellow is fucking amazing.  Go to his channel.  His cabin building one is quite incredible.  Makes all the tiles for the roof himself, puts in a heating system too!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAL3JXZSzSm8AlZyD3nQdBA (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAL3JXZSzSm8AlZyD3nQdBA)

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: azozeo on April 09, 2017, 03:51:34 PM
Cool channel RE.
Thanks for posting.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on May 26, 2017, 06:39:07 PM
Darcy practicing her fossil fuel free gardening. Get em young and hopefully it will stick.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on May 26, 2017, 07:05:08 PM
Beautiful. Careful, or the next time you look up she'll be grown. It happens so fast.

I remember my parents more or less made me work in the garden, which was large and fruitful, but full of weeds most of the time. We lived in our own house on my grandfather's farm. When he passed away, my father sold the old man's house and it was moved away, and my Dad tore down his old barn, moved the heirloom family corn crib to another spot on the farm, and built a new barn around it.

Where my grandfather's cow lot had been we planted the biggest garden we ever had, probably 2 acres. Two generations of composted manure gave us the finest harvest. I would like to have another garden or two like that, while it's still possible. I have a sort of practice garden now, and I've built it but my daughters, who are grown, tend to it more than I do. We do now have tomatoes. Getting  hot here. About 90F today and supremely muggy. It's been a cool spring actually. Sorry to see it go.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on May 26, 2017, 08:26:44 PM
I'm very lucky I had close contact with my Mother's parents for my childhood years.  My grandfather was probably the last generation of subsistence farmer. Raised 9 kids,  Grew vegetables and livestock for food,  cash crops, a small dairy operation, hogs on the extra milk, logged in the winter, fixed and or built his own equipment til it was worn to the knub.  He was mostly retired and doing it for fun by my time but his garden was magical to me.  Somehow most of his children never took to the life and did nothing to pass it on.  I sometimes feel cheated out of my history... hopefully I will be more successful with my kids.
Best regards, David B
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on July 14, 2017, 08:39:46 PM
One of the best parts of my new life as a solar tech is all the older systems I get to see out there still chugging along. There is also lots of gear put aside for something better. Every now and then I get to take some home.  Today was such a day.  I came across a Trace U2512SB it is a 25 year old inverter still putting out power.  It's charger has failed which is why it was put out to pasture.  But I hooked it up to a battery and poof runs like a charm  I'll probably put it away as a backup or as a construction inverter.  Great tech rock solid and fixable...
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: K-Dog on July 14, 2017, 09:17:08 PM
Way to go!  Can one have too many inverters?  I think not!
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on July 15, 2017, 07:28:57 AM
It's actually quite cool. It's such an early model trace was not even doing printed circuits yet.  The components are soddered onto blank board and wired. A friend rebuilds them.  I'm thinking of sending it off and having the charger fixed.  That destroys the whole "free" part though. 
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: K-Dog on July 15, 2017, 08:56:37 AM
Chargers are not that complicated and someone who is good with electronic repair would be able to fix it.  Why send it off?

The circuit board situation is interesting.  Making a flat board that can handle high currents is problematic.  I have seen many power supply supply sections where heavy wire has bee tack soldered to circuit boards to increase current carrying capacity.  I have seen many old power supply sections where boards have been toasted brown or black because the currents they carry have slow cooked the boards.  Elivated temperature and time will carbonize organic substances and a board may not show decomposition for several years but over time the damage can become bad enough that black areas can become conductive causing circuits to fail.  Concerning your board, it may be that there was time enough to design a board but not time enough to design a good one, and while wire straps can be ugly they work.
Title: Re: Amazing level of skill
Post by: Petty Tyrant on July 15, 2017, 01:22:55 PM
If you have ever tried to do sheet metal work you should understand how incredibly talented these men are. A gasifier friend sent me the link.  These skills used to be much more present in our part of the world.  It's good to see they still live on somewhere.
https://youtu.be/YNXQKCrpkJE

Thats crazy mad skill, reminds me of another one i saw where a barefoot indian was fabricating panels for cars.
Title: Cold climate greenhouse growing
Post by: Nearingsfault on August 20, 2017, 08:37:54 AM
And this is why hoophouse are so useful in my climate.  We've been eating Cucumbers for 6 weeks now.  My first outdoor one are starting to ripen but will peak before the inside ones are done.  The picture.... well that's just a proud papa happy his girls are playing in the dirt and eating something off a vine.
Cheers
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: agelbert on August 21, 2017, 11:29:07 AM
And this is why hoophouse are so useful in my climate.  We've been eating Cucumbers for 6 weeks now.  My first outdoor one are starting to ripen but will peak before the inside ones are done.  The picture.... well that's just a proud papa happy his girls are playing in the dirt and eating something off a vine.
Cheers


 :emthup:  :icon_sunny:
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on October 04, 2017, 08:04:53 PM
I thought I would share how ugly it can get when you try to built something new.  My gasifiers work well but the charcoal processing is a bottleneck; it takes too long and is too labour intensive.  The solution is to build a grinder. This one is a modified leaf shredder.  I rebuild the cutter head so it takes out chunks and built a new strike plate.  This is its preliminary test.  It's a dust devil machine right now.  I need to presift out the ash, build it a cowling and install a dust extractor of some sort. The end goal is to go from 20 lbs of charcoal ground down per hour to 200 lbs...  sized correctly 13 lbs of charcoal will replace one gallon of gasoline. Link to video below.
https://youtu.be/SP3vlOsSqbg
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on October 04, 2017, 08:51:06 PM
I thought I would share how ugly it can get when you try to built something new.  My gasifiers work well but the charcoal processing is a bottleneck; it takes too long and is too labour intensive.  The solution is to build a grinder. This one is a modified leaf shredder.  I rebuild the cutter head so it takes out chunks and built a new strike plate.  This is its preliminary test.  It's a dust devil machine right now.  I need to presift out the ash, build it a cowling and install a dust extractor of some sort. The end goal is to go from 20 lbs of charcoal ground down per hour to 200 lbs...  sized correctly 13 lbs of charcoal will replace one gallon of gasoline. Link to video below.
https://youtu.be/SP3vlOsSqbg

It does look like a dust extractor is in order.  LOL.

How many pounds of wood do you need to make 13 lbs of charcoal, and how many lbs of Wood do you start with?  How far can you drive cutting down 1 tree of say 8" diameter at the base?  Does your plot of land regrow trees fast enough so you don't end up cutting down the forest to feed the car?

If you have other vids of your gasifiers and running the car or truck on the gas, I can splice them together for a tutorial video which I will publish on the Diner Blog and Diner YouTube.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on October 04, 2017, 09:09:45 PM
For charcoal gasifiers you have to think of it as a byproduct of home heating.  If you make charcoal and throw away the heat you soon have no more forest.  The raw wood guys use 20 lbs of wood for 1 gallon of gasoline equivalent. In my case I can get 25 to 30 percent charcoal yield from every pound of wood I start with. So it would take about 45 to 50 lbs of wood to make 1 gallon of gasoline equivalent. 1 acre of forest in my part of the wood will produce about 1000 lbs of wood per year indefinitely. So roughly 20 gallons of gasoline equivalent per acre per year foreverll.. It will never power the world as it is but it could keep us country boys moving a while longer.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on October 04, 2017, 09:25:09 PM
For charcoal gasifiers you have to think of it as a byproduct of home heating.  If you make charcoal and throw away the heat you soon have no more forest.  The raw wood guys use 20 lbs of wood for 1 gallon of gasoline equivalent. In my case I can get 25 to 30 percent charcoal yield from every pound of wood I start with. So it would take about 45 to 50 lbs of wood to make 1 gallon of gasoline equivalent. 1 acre of forest in my part of the wood will produce about 1000 lbs of wood per year indefinitely. So roughly 20 gallons of gasoline equivalent per acre per year foreverll.. It will never power the world as it is but it could keep us country boys moving a while longer.

Let's assume you use 100 gallons of gas per year for your tractor and pickup truck.  So you need 5 acres of wooded land to supply them with fuel.  Do you have 5 acres of woodland along with the additional acreage for growing the food crops you need and raising the livestock?

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on October 04, 2017, 09:35:24 PM
I have 10 acres of land 9 and change in forest. In a for real scenario I'd plow the road allotments.  They are the clearest land around. I'm supposed to do up an acre of field on charcoal power this spring. I have no illusions of self sufficiency in this.  It's one tool;there are many others. I think it's cool.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on October 04, 2017, 09:45:38 PM
I'm supposed to do up an acre of field on charcoal power this spring.

Make videos.  We can publish them on the Diner.

RE
Title: Primitive skills
Post by: Nearingsfault on November 26, 2017, 02:15:08 PM
This morning I cooked up some local bacon I got off a friend. Off of about 1lb I had a good 8 onzes of fat. Thinking of RE and his love of primitive skills I decided to render the fat and make some tallow candles. The jars are old baby food jars, the wicks are braided waxed hemp string I had and I disolved some dried pine sap in the lard for some holiday smells. They seem to burn well... not very bright but in a world of no light pretty cool. 1st picture is the setting tallow. The second one is the fired up end product.
Title: Re: Primitive skills
Post by: RE on November 26, 2017, 04:03:40 PM
This morning I cooked up some local bacon I got off a friend. Off of about 1lb I had a good 8 onzes of fat. Thinking of RE and his love of primitive skills I decided to render the fat and make some tallow candles. The jars are old baby food jars, the wicks are braided waxed hemp string I had and I disolved some dried pine sap in the lard for some holiday smells. They seem to burn well... not very bright but in a world of no light pretty cool. 1st picture is the setting tallow. The second one is the fired up end product.

This probably should be on the Primitive Skills board but I'll leave it here.

RE
Title: Reading lamp
Post by: Nearingsfault on November 26, 2017, 06:39:45 PM
Thanks for leaving it here. I've just spent a lovely hour reading by tallow light. A bit of aromatherapy spruce (sorry not pine my mistake) as a bonus. It is the definition of a 2 candlepower light. Easy reading nonetheless. The cookie tin is an improvised reflector. I sat behind it and raised the book and voila artificial light from bacon scraps.
David
Title: Re: Reading lamp
Post by: RE on November 27, 2017, 02:35:35 AM
Thanks for leaving it here. I've just spent a lovely hour reading by tallow light. A bit of aromatherapy spruce (sorry not pine my mistake) as a bonus. It is the definition of a 2 candlepower light. Easy reading nonetheless. The cookie tin is an improvised reflector. I sat behind it and raised the book and voila artificial light from bacon scraps.
David

You should mix the tallow with beeswax.  Makes brighter, cleaner burning candles.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on November 27, 2017, 03:53:44 AM
I have no bees... that is a project for another year. From what I read the beeswax would mostly be to harden the tallow to make a better candle. Since I have them in glass jars and they operate mostly as oil when burning I think I'm ok. I can't detect any unpleasant smell either; it's probably masked by the spruce. The picture below is a 2hr burn. If anything I'll braid a thicker wick next time to try to up the burn speed and make more light.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on November 27, 2017, 05:47:13 AM
I have no bees... that is a project for another year. From what I read the beeswax would mostly be to harden the tallow to make a better candle. Since I have them in glass jars and they operate mostly as oil when burning I think I'm ok. I can't detect any unpleasant smell either; it's probably masked by the spruce. The picture below is a 2hr burn. If anything I'll braid a thicker wick next time to try to up the burn speed and make more light.

 I'm sure there is a beekeeper somewhere in the neighborhood who will barter some beeswax for your carpentry skills. maybe you can build him a new hive. otherwise you can get it online for around 8 to $10 hours a pound.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world: charcoal grinder
Post by: Nearingsfault on November 28, 2017, 02:08:06 PM
I installed a tarp over the grinder today. The problem with my charcoal gasifiers is I need to increase the speed at which I can process fuel to make it worthwhile. The grinder is a modified leaf mulcher it kicks up a hell of a lot of dust though.The theory on this video is I'll use a much larger tarp to control the dust created by grinding my charcoal. So I get ground gasifier fuel and a biochar dusting of the garden. Youtube link:   https://youtu.be/cNmf6iJ82ZA
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world: charcoal grinder
Post by: RE on November 28, 2017, 10:28:28 PM
I installed a tarp over the grinder today. The problem with my charcoal gasifiers is I need to increase the speed at which I can process fuel to make it worthwhile. The grinder is a modified leaf mulcher it kicks up a hell of a lot of dust though.The theory on this video is I'll use a much larger tarp to control the dust created by grinding my charcoal. So I get ground gasifier fuel and a biochar dusting of the garden. Youtube link:   https://youtu.be/cNmf6iJ82ZA

Your vid is REALLY out of focus!

I trust that grinder is running on charcoal gas not diesel or petrol?

What will you do when you can't get those filter masks you wear when shovelling the charcoal?

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on November 29, 2017, 05:36:34 AM
This was my first vid with our canon sir I usually use my phone. I really don't know what I did to mess up the auto focus. The filter mask uses cleanable hepa rated filters. This set carried me through 4 years of daily carpentry work. I have a spare set in a bag I never used. If they wear out I'll do 3 layers of wet cotton. The grinder runs at about 600 watts per hour when loaded down; I did it all in 20 minutes so call it 200 watt hrs and ground 30lbs of charcoal. burnt in a charcoal gasifier to charge batteries that should correspond to 20-25 kW Hrs of electricity including losses. I am not one hundred percent consistent in my pursuits I'll admit.  The grinder right now is running off of the solar. I don't top off the batteries with a generator anymore since we have a grid connection but I could. If you want the whole picture it would run something like this: Electric chainsaw to cut the firewood originally, electric splitter to split it, both can run on either solar close to the house or Charcoal powered generator if more then 200 ft away. The wood heats the house and runs the maple syrup boiler they generate charcoal as they heat the house and generate the cash crop. There is not enough of it from those sources so I would have to convert more treetop scraps to charcoal. I'd use the electric chopsaw for that. On a nice sunny day in the spring when the batteries are topped off I would grind my charcoal stockpile and mist the garden with biochar. I should have a bigger solar array to make it all work. You could substitute all of those devices with muscle power but I would need to be working at it full time and right now BAU is still working and paying so I'll put off penury for a while. I have a crosscut saw, mauls, splitting axes but having used them a fair bit the first few years I'll use the machines while I have them. Again lots of inconsistencies and industrial products that fail but its a beginning of a full system.
Cheers,  David
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on November 29, 2017, 12:12:30 PM
This was my first vid with our canon sir I usually use my phone. I really don't know what I did to mess up the auto focus. The filter mask uses cleanable hepa rated filters. This set carried me through 4 years of daily carpentry work. I have a spare set in a bag I never used. If they wear out I'll do 3 layers of wet cotton. The grinder runs at about 600 watts per hour when loaded down; I did it all in 20 minutes so call it 200 watt hrs and ground 30lbs of charcoal. burnt in a charcoal gasifier to charge batteries that should correspond to 20-25 kW Hrs of electricity including losses. I am not one hundred percent consistent in my pursuits I'll admit.  The grinder right now is running off of the solar. I don't top off the batteries with a generator anymore since we have a grid connection but I could. If you want the whole picture it would run something like this: Electric chainsaw to cut the firewood originally, electric splitter to split it, both can run on either solar close to the house or Charcoal powered generator if more then 200 ft away. The wood heats the house and runs the maple syrup boiler they generate charcoal as they heat the house and generate the cash crop. There is not enough of it from those sources so I would have to convert more treetop scraps to charcoal. I'd use the electric chopsaw for that. On a nice sunny day in the spring when the batteries are topped off I would grind my charcoal stockpile and mist the garden with biochar. I should have a bigger solar array to make it all work. You could substitute all of those devices with muscle power but I would need to be working at it full time and right now BAU is still working and paying so I'll put off penury for a while. I have a crosscut saw, mauls, splitting axes but having used them a fair bit the first few years I'll use the machines while I have them. Again lots of inconsistencies and industrial products that fail but its a beginning of a full system.
Cheers,  David

I was just being annoying.  ;D

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on November 29, 2017, 01:32:31 PM
One should be able to defend one's positions. Putting it down on paper makes for a more concrete road map anyways. Usually I just build shit with only a vague idea of how they connect...I'm trying to link it all. Many kicks at the can for each energy input.
David
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on November 29, 2017, 02:04:01 PM
The filter mask uses cleanable hepa rated filters. This set carried me through 4 years of daily carpentry work. I have a spare set in a bag I never used. If they wear out I'll do 3 layers of wet cotton.

I make my own gas filtration cartridges.

Start with a small can, either tuna fish cans for the more flat shape or tomato paste cans for the longer shape.

(https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-49e30ad2a2bdfb9a9bff702a1d1df2d1-c)(https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/e28fe9bc-a8ca-497c-ae1a-8d5914b0a51b_1.33082886ed632f8d20c7b7808f0000a3.jpeg?odnHeight=450&odnWidth=450&odnBg=FFFFFF)

Cut the lid off with the type of can opener that peels off the top, not the type that cuts it:

(http://www.prc68.com/I/Images/RosleCanOpenerw.jpg)

Eat the food in the can, then wash it clean.

On the bottom, drill a dozen or so 1/4" holes to allow contaminated air to pass through.

Inside, cut a round piece of cheese cloth to fit the bottom.  Above that, drop a layer of shredded cotton balls or cotton batting.

(https://www.essenavita.com/images/01216_cotton_ball.jpg)

Add another cheese cloth separator, then a layer of Activated Charcoal.  This can be purchased cheap at pet supply stores in the aquarium department.  I have a couple of pounds of the stuff, good for dozens of cartridges which will last a LONG time each one unless exposed to some really noxious fumes.

(https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/9a044915-48fd-4637-8383-2bdd94d69af1_1.1772180725d7c2ce6cb11647547e5afa.jpeg?odnHeight=450&odnWidth=450&odnBg=FFFFFF)

Rinse and repeat for 2-3 more layers, loosely packed to allow for good airflow through the filter.

For the top, cut a 1-2" hole in it with a hole saw for your electric drill that will take a PCV screw fitting for the hose, then seal the can and top with cyanoacrylate (crazy) glue or epoxy.

Connect your hose to a snorkel or other device to breathe through.

(https://www.leisurepro.com/Image/Product/Large/CSBSA.jpg)

You can carry the cartridge in your Hunting Vest Pocket and attach the hose to it from there.  Add Goggles if there is a lot of fumes and smoke around that will hit your eyeballs.  Also wear a Bandana wetted down to protect your lips.  This is important in Tear Gas situations fired off by the Gestapo at Demonstrations.

I designed my system mainly for Volcanic Eruptions from Mt. Redoubt if we get a big one before I croak.  Should be good for both the micro-particulates that can sandblast your lungs as well as pyroclastic gasses like Sulfur Dioxide.  I have enough cartridges to last for several days of constant eruption and ashfall.  Total cost, less than $50 and that is including the tuna and tomato paste I ate.  For the charcoal gas production, they would likely last the rest of your life and your children's lifetime's as well.  They can be cleaned out of course as well unless seriously contaminated by chemicals.

Prior to direct use, dampen the bottom layer of cotton batting through the air entry holes using a Turkey Injector or Baster.

(https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB18LiAfBUSMeJjy1zkq6yWmpXad/200pcs-lot-Seasoning-Injector-Turkey-Seaoning-Injector-Barbecue-Injector-Turkey-Injector-Fork-BBQ-tools.jpg_220x220.jpg)  (https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/31122c60-b5fa-4b4e-9fe1-e8437de37c4f_1.32892c2ab386951f4ac8c27dabb30fd4.jpeg?odnHeight=450&odnWidth=450&odnBg=FFFFFF)

Not too much water, it clogs up the airflow.  Just enough to dampen it and increase adsorption.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on November 29, 2017, 03:45:56 PM
Interesting but a little too culture warrior for my tastes. I have chemical cartridges for the mask they don't last once you open them up. The charcoal saturates with humidity within days. If read and heard stories from the ww1 vets talking about charcoal wool and urine as a mustard gas mask in the early days until the issued ones got there. I'll stick to the NAOSH regulated gear for now...
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on November 30, 2017, 04:19:33 AM
Interesting but a little too culture warrior for my tastes. I have chemical cartridges for the mask they don't last once you open them up. The charcoal saturates with humidity within days. If read and heard stories from the ww1 vets talking about charcoal wool and urine as a mustard gas mask in the early days until the issued ones got there. I'll stick to the NAOSH regulated gear for now...

If you are  worried about the charcoal being deactivated by humidity, then seal the cannister in avaccuum bag until you need it for use.  Or never take the charcoal out of its storage container to begin with until you need to make a new cannister.

You can get rid of humidity issues simply by baking the cannister for about 20 minutes.  Water vapor does not affect the chemical properties of the charcoal, and once you dry it out it works just like new.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world : Bacon fat candles are trending!
Post by: Nearingsfault on November 30, 2017, 05:31:30 AM
Hey look I'm on trend with my lard candles... They don't even render it a little too baconey for me I think.
https://butternutrition.com/the-bacon-fat-candle-a-little-bit-of-bacon-in-every-day/
I built a reflector out of leftover flashing material and made a thicker wick for more light; a great reading lamp. I think I'll stop this experiment here. reading in bed by candlelight is a great way to fall asleep though... just remember to put it out!
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world : Bacon fat candles are trending!
Post by: RE on November 30, 2017, 05:43:07 AM
Hey look I'm on trend with my lard candles... They don't even render it a little too baconey for me I think.
https://butternutrition.com/the-bacon-fat-candle-a-little-bit-of-bacon-in-every-day/
I built a reflector out of leftover flashing material and made a thicker wick for more light; a great reading lamp. I think I'll stop this experiment here. reading in bed by candlelight is a great way to fall asleep though... just remember to put it out!

When I used to eat bacon, I always saved the fat in a coffee can.  Burns great but of course smells like bacon when you burn it.  Bacon smells good though IMHO.

Now nothing I still eat has so much extra fat on it to save for candles and such.  I am mostly eating Sashimi now for Animal Protein, raw fish.  Tuna, Salmon and Flounder, I slice it up myself now to save money instead of buying from the sushi counter at Fred Meyer.  I add some Yogurt and a boiled egg every day to add to the protein content for the day.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on November 30, 2017, 03:41:10 PM
Ah to live on a coast. We are surrounded by lakes. Grey trout is the king here but I prefer the taste of perch myself. It's on my list this winter to make time for ice fishing. Another great basic skill to practice now. I'm a horrible fisherman
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on November 30, 2017, 07:51:28 PM
Ah to live on a coast. We are surrounded by lakes. Grey trout is the king here but I prefer the taste of perch myself. It's on my list this winter to make time for ice fishing. Another great basic skill to practice now. I'm a horrible fisherman

My fishing days are OVAH.  The closest I come to fishing is picking a fillet out of the refrigerated fish counter at Fred Meyer, Carr's or 3 Bears.  Fortunately, all 3 places carry good locally sourced fish.

RE
Title: Machinery for a post collapse world: Making Charcoal
Post by: Nearingsfault on December 14, 2017, 07:23:25 PM
It was -27 C this morning and a balmy -20C right now so its a perfect evening for making char. I’ll have to stop soon as the house is at 23 C and getting too hot! I do want to build an outdoor boiler and make barrels worth of char but here is a nice easy way to generate 5 to 10 gallons of engine grade char a day with no special build while maintaining good heat harvesting.
Cheers, David
Here is a link to the video
https://youtu.be/LKZPTBA-boU


Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on December 14, 2017, 07:27:21 PM
Wow. It's down to 50F here and might get down into the 40's this weekend,and wet too. So harsh.

That's too fucking cold. I hope you're keeping the house warm for your girls.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on December 14, 2017, 07:30:14 PM
We're hovering around 0C (32F) and getting a rain snow mix at the moment.  Generally been a warm December so far, but not outrageously so.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on December 14, 2017, 08:56:13 PM
 usually we insert a comment about how we love the cold but the his one caught me off guard. It was a very mild fall and then bam winter. It gives me comfort thehisheirheo know my little beasts are snuggled up nice and warm on nothing but some labour.
 I was supposed to change some micro inverters on a roof today. I put it off til next week. Imagine those panel connectors with their orings and lock tabs at -13 degrees farenheit just snapping right off.
The climate is the reason the firewood/char/ gasifier route is such a good energy route for me.
Title: Pondering collapse, making motor fuel.
Post by: Nearingsfault on December 27, 2017, 01:07:22 PM
Lots of interesting postings in the last few days. I have my feet up and am tending the fire for warmth and charcoal production today. -17 farenheit this morning... that is cold. Great day for charcoal though. I have made about 2-3 litres of gasoline equivalent. A full wood box, a warm stove and little to do but read and tend to the kids.
Title: Re: Pondering collapse, making motor fuel.
Post by: RE on December 27, 2017, 02:26:14 PM
Lots of interesting postings in the last few days. I have my feet up and am tending the fire for warmth and charcoal production today. -17 farenheit this morning... that is cold.

7F here.  We're catching up!

RE
Title: Season of the sap
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 22, 2018, 05:58:54 PM
This is as close to religion as I get. My ancestors have been doing this springtime bucket dance for over a century. with wood spiles and wood buckets another century and first nations people for probably thousands of years before that. I only put out 20 taps this year on the woodlot I'm trying to buy. Its very early in the season and over the last three days only about 2 litres per tap has flowed the weather has not been cooperating. if you do not get freezing temperatures at night and a sunny 5 or 6 degrees celsius during the day you get no sap.  On a good day you will get 8 litres from a good tap. This year I've moved the boiler into the greenhouse. I'm trying to add humidity to the soil and increase nighttime temperatures. On a big boil day I can actually make it rain as the condensation drips down off the plastic disturbed by a breeze. Its very peaceful and highly addictive. To see the life essence of a tree in spring boiled down to something so special is magical.
Cheers
Title: Re: Season of the sap
Post by: RE on March 22, 2018, 06:24:16 PM
This is as close to religion as I get. My ancestors have been doing this springtime bucket dance for over a century. with wood spiles and wood buckets another century and first nations people for probably thousands of years before that. I only put out 20 taps this year on the woodlot I'm trying to buy. Its very early in the season and over the last three days only about 2 litres per tap has flowed the weather has not been cooperating. if you do not get freezing temperatures at night and a sunny 5 or 6 degrees celsius during the day you get no sap.  On a good day you will get 8 litres from a good tap. This year I've moved the boiler into the greenhouse. I'm trying to add humidity to the soil and increase nighttime temperatures. On a big boil day I can actually make it rain as the condensation drips down off the plastic disturbed by a breeze. Its very peaceful and highly addictive. To see the life essence of a tree in spring boiled down to something so special is magical.
Cheers

Have you ever calculated the energy it takes to boil the sap down to syrup?  ???   :icon_scratch:  How much wood to make how many gallons (litres) of syrup from how much Sap?  How many trees to tap for how many gallons of final product?

RE
Title: Maple Sap Harvesting
Post by: agelbert on March 22, 2018, 06:26:15 PM
 :emthup: :icon_sunny:

I read about that Strategic Maple syrup reserve Canada has a few weeks ago. You folks DO take your Maple Syrup GOLD seriously.

Here in Vermont, Climate change is slowly destroying an important export. As you know, for the sap to run well, you need the pumping effect of above freezing temps in the day and below freezing at night. What is happening due to climate change is that the winter stays cold until it doesn't. So, we are increasingly experiencing low sap yields from lack of below freezing temperatures at night during March and April, normally the best time to harvest sap.

Enjoy your sap while you can. I don't think Canada will avoid the fate of Vermont.  :(
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on March 22, 2018, 06:34:07 PM
Sounds like a wonderful tradition. Maple syrup is the poster child for nature's bounty. So good.

In East Texas where I grew up syrup mills were once common. All cane...sugar cane and ribbon cane is what I remember. Molasses really. It  was a fall semi-outdoor process, under an open shed.
Title: Re: Season of the sap
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 22, 2018, 06:41:52 PM
This is as close to religion as I get. My ancestors have been doing this springtime bucket dance for over a century. with wood spiles and wood buckets another century and first nations people for probably thousands of years before that. I only put out 20 taps this year on the woodlot I'm trying to buy. Its very early in the season and over the last three days only about 2 litres per tap has flowed the weather has not been cooperating. if you do not get freezing temperatures at night and a sunny 5 or 6 degrees celsius during the day you get no sap.  On a good day you will get 8 litres from a good tap. This year I've moved the boiler into the greenhouse. I'm trying to add humidity to the soil and increase nighttime temperatures. On a big boil day I can actually make it rain as the condensation drips down off the plastic disturbed by a breeze. Its very peaceful and highly addictive. To see the life essence of a tree in spring boiled down to something so special is magical.
Cheers

Have you ever calculated the energy it takes to boil the sap down to syrup?  ???   :icon_scratch:  How much wood to make how many gallons (litres) of syrup from how much Sap?  How many trees to tap for how many gallons of final product?

RE
Well it takes about 1200 btu to boil away a pound of water so 2640 per litre of water. 1 pound of wood has 7000 btu in it and I expect the boiler is in the 30-50 percent efficiency plus I want to collect charcoal from that so more losses lets use 30 percent. so 2100 but of useable heat... close enough because as the sugar content increases the boiling efficiency goes up so say 40 lbs of wood for 1 litre of syrup. The commercial operations are switching to reverse osmosis to reduce boil time by two thirds but I find it makes it taste like shit. Traditionally its a way of concentrating resources for export just like sides of bacon or whiskey instead of corn... Ship a barrel of maple syrup instead of a railcar of firewood.
Title: Re: Season of the sap
Post by: RE on March 22, 2018, 06:52:44 PM
This is as close to religion as I get. My ancestors have been doing this springtime bucket dance for over a century. with wood spiles and wood buckets another century and first nations people for probably thousands of years before that. I only put out 20 taps this year on the woodlot I'm trying to buy. Its very early in the season and over the last three days only about 2 litres per tap has flowed the weather has not been cooperating. if you do not get freezing temperatures at night and a sunny 5 or 6 degrees celsius during the day you get no sap.  On a good day you will get 8 litres from a good tap. This year I've moved the boiler into the greenhouse. I'm trying to add humidity to the soil and increase nighttime temperatures. On a big boil day I can actually make it rain as the condensation drips down off the plastic disturbed by a breeze. Its very peaceful and highly addictive. To see the life essence of a tree in spring boiled down to something so special is magical.
Cheers

Have you ever calculated the energy it takes to boil the sap down to syrup?  ???   :icon_scratch:  How much wood to make how many gallons (litres) of syrup from how much Sap?  How many trees to tap for how many gallons of final product?

RE
Well it takes about 1200 btu to boil away a pound of water so 2640 per litre of water. 1 pound of wood has 7000 btu in it and I expect the boiler is in the 30-50 percent efficiency plus I want to collect charcoal from that so more losses lets use 30 percent. so 2100 but of useable heat... close enough because as the sugar content increases the boiling efficiency goes up so say 40 lbs of wood for 1 litre of syrup. The commercial operations are switching to reverse osmosis to reduce boil time by two thirds but I find it makes it taste like shit. Traditionally its a way of concentrating resources for export just like sides of bacon or whiskey instead of corn... Ship a barrel of maple syrup instead of a railcar of firewood.

Same deal with Prohibition and Alcohol.  It was way cheaper and more profitable for farmers to make BOOZE out of their grain and ship that to market rather than the grain itself, which you had to do via the Railroads generally speaking. Booze you could ship in a horse drawn wagon.  So they taxed it and made "bootlegging" illegal.

40 lbs of wood for 1 litre of syrup seems like a lot.  How many trees do you need to burn to do a season's worth of syrup making?

RE
Title: Re: Maple Sap Harvesting
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 22, 2018, 06:55:56 PM
:emthup: :icon_sunny:

I read about that Strategic Maple syrup reserve Canada has a few weeks ago. You folks DO take your Maple Syrup GOLD seriously.

Here in Vermont, Climate change is slowly destroying an important export. As you know, for the sap to run well, you need the pumping effect of above freezing temps in the day and below freezing at night. What is happening due to climate change is that the winter stays cold until it doesn't. So, we are increasingly experiencing low sap yields from lack of below freezing temperatures at night during March and April, normally the best time to harvest sap.

Enjoy your sap while you can. I don't think Canada will avoid the fate of Vermont.  :(
Wee bit of a gloomy gus tonight aren't we? Usually its all shiny electric cars and solar farms.
I expect some syrup production to continue into at least the first phase of warming. Its already here really with beech diseases and species creep already underway. There are pilot projects locally to move species north earlier to try to anticipate a warmer world. Southern Pensylvania and virginia produce a fair bit of maple syrup still so our days are not over yet. Vermont's biggest problem is urbanization and gentrification I think. It takes poor country boys to make syrup because the profit is so tiny. In a well paid expensive woodlot world it makes no sense.
I grew up in Quebec which is who has the strategic reserve. If you are a commercial syrup operator in quebec you have to join the association and sell it to them. No other province has such harsh rules. Honestly I think its a mistake as it homogenizes the product in an era of craft breweries and local cheeses. Big syrup tastes like shit too. I'm a mountain boy so our maples don't have an easy life. They live in granite and suck up a lot of minerals. they produce probably 1/2 the sap of a lowland maple. You can taste it in the syrup.
Title: Re: Season of the sap
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 22, 2018, 07:13:34 PM
This is as close to religion as I get. My ancestors have been doing this springtime bucket dance for over a century. with wood spiles and wood buckets another century and first nations people for probably thousands of years before that. I only put out 20 taps this year on the woodlot I'm trying to buy. Its very early in the season and over the last three days only about 2 litres per tap has flowed the weather has not been cooperating. if you do not get freezing temperatures at night and a sunny 5 or 6 degrees celsius during the day you get no sap.  On a good day you will get 8 litres from a good tap. This year I've moved the boiler into the greenhouse. I'm trying to add humidity to the soil and increase nighttime temperatures. On a big boil day I can actually make it rain as the condensation drips down off the plastic disturbed by a breeze. Its very peaceful and highly addictive. To see the life essence of a tree in spring boiled down to something so special is magical.
Cheers

Have you ever calculated the energy it takes to boil the sap down to syrup?  ???   :icon_scratch:  How much wood to make how many gallons (litres) of syrup from how much Sap?  How many trees to tap for how many gallons of final product?

RE
Well it takes about 1200 btu to boil away a pound of water so 2640 per litre of water. 1 pound of wood has 7000 btu in it and I expect the boiler is in the 30-50 percent efficiency plus I want to collect charcoal from that so more losses lets use 30 percent. so 2100 but of useable heat... close enough because as the sugar content increases the boiling efficiency goes up so say 40 lbs of wood for 1 litre of syrup. The commercial operations are switching to reverse osmosis to reduce boil time by two thirds but I find it makes it taste like shit. Traditionally its a way of concentrating resources for export just like sides of bacon or whiskey instead of corn... Ship a barrel of maple syrup instead of a railcar of firewood.

Same deal with Prohibition and Alcohol.  It was way cheaper and more profitable for farmers to make BOOZE out of their grain and ship that to market rather than the grain itself, which you had to do via the Railroads generally speaking. Booze you could ship in a horse drawn wagon.  So they taxed it and made "bootlegging" illegal.

40 lbs of wood for 1 litre of syrup seems like a lot.  How many trees do you need to burn to do a season's worth of syrup making?

RE
Its a lot of wood. I'm improving it with roxul panels and thin splitting. Mostly its the unsellable top third of the tree or softwood trees with no market. It really goes hand in hand with having a woodlot. Its a way to extract another product by refining down something into a finished good. I grew up with my grandmother calling white sugar "sunday sugar" because it used to be only for guests and sunday. Maple sugar was the norm. I'm not that old but it's telling how poor that area was until recently. 
Title: Season of the sap: first boil
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 23, 2018, 07:36:23 PM
Well, 40 more litres tonight so 80 total. The boiler holds about 200. I'm just bringing it up to a boil tonight to pasturise  it so I can wait a few days. Should be a great weekend for sap.
Title: Re: Season of the sap: first boil
Post by: RE on March 23, 2018, 07:45:57 PM
Well, 40 more litres tonight so 80 total. The boiler holds about 200. I'm just bringing it up to a boil tonight to pasturise  it so I can wait a few days. Should be a great weekend for sap.

Do you sell it or keep it for yourself?

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 23, 2018, 08:02:14 PM
All for us. I dole some out to friends and family but for now it's a small scale affair. Still hopeful about the wood lot though. If it goes ahead it has a potential of about 2000 taps...
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 24, 2018, 06:02:00 AM
I was quite surprised by how the new design performed. I'll have to take better wood measurement as it boiled down 40 litres in 2 hours on a single arm full of softwood. I was aiming for some rocket stove properties and she really boils. I went out to a steam bath! You tube link:
https://youtu.be/7cJzaEO1SBc
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on March 24, 2018, 06:26:05 AM
I was quite surprised by how the new design performed. I'll have to take better wood measurement as it boiled down 40 litres in 2 hours on a single arm full of softwood. I was aiming for some rocket stove properties and she really boils. I went out to a steam bath!

Great Newz!  Maybe you can store the sap a while unitl there is more SUN and do it all Solar!

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 24, 2018, 06:31:54 AM
Wood is stored sunlight. 4 percent yield per year. Transformable, no manufacturing costs. It mines and extracts it's own raw materials, performs a vital function of cleaning the air... it's the perfect battery.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Palloy2 on March 24, 2018, 07:37:10 AM
Quote
DB: Wood is stored sunlight. 4 percent yield per year. Transformable, no manufacturing costs. It mines and extracts it's own raw materials, performs a vital function of cleaning the air... it's the perfect battery.

You know that's not true, photosynthesis is 1.5% efficient in terms of energy produced per sunlight energy used, and only some of it ends up as wet wood.  Transforming it into heating fuel means cutting it down, trimming the crown, dragging it  somewhere, drying it, and chopping it into little pieces - all stuff you can do yourself, but still manufacturing costs in time and effort. If you don't return all the minerals to the soil, the tree can't extract the minerals it needs.  If that is the perfect battery, Rome wouldn't have run out of energy and collapsed.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 24, 2018, 07:57:23 AM
Rome spent it's energy on military conquest and over expansion and over taxed it's resource base to the point that it collapsed. The current forestry practices of the better foresters suggest a cut every 25 years which is where the 4 percent rate came from. It is not a clear cut and if I crunched the numbers more carefully a 2 percent or 1.5 rate might be more accurate based on the forest as a whole. All ash is returned to the forest or my gardens so I see no error in that part. The forest does ever so slowly recharge its own nutrients. Point taken on the processing costs.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: cernunnos5 on March 24, 2018, 11:26:16 AM
Wood is stored sunlight. 4 percent yield per year. Transformable, no manufacturing costs. It mines and extracts it's own raw materials, performs a vital function of cleaning the air... it's the perfect battery.
Just passing through. I just wanted to say "Ditto" hear.
I was just taking a break in writing... about Wood for Survival. No wood, No survival. Im burning through alot of stored sunshine during this 4 Nor'easters in less than a month.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 24, 2018, 12:15:55 PM
My Woodgas friends sign off as bbb for burn baby burn. Stay warm.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on March 24, 2018, 12:16:13 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b2/27/9b/b2279b64eb82c856ebc4efb4664ef742.jpg)
Wood is stored sunlight yes, but if you burn it you're returning CO2 to the atmosphere.  If you make Biochar out of it you're sequestering carbon and enhancing the soil.

On the other hand, if you use the SUN☼ directly rather than first converting to chemical or electrical energy, you would be more efficient and entirely carbon neutral.  I would put the sap boiler at the focal point of a big ass parabolic dish.  On a sunny day it would boil sap in no time, no wood.  Make the parabolic collector out of polished aluminum flashing available cheap at Home Depot.

RE

Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 24, 2018, 12:59:13 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b2/27/9b/b2279b64eb82c856ebc4efb4664ef742.jpg)
Wood is stored sunlight yes, but if you burn it you're returning CO2 to the atmosphere.  If you make Biochar out of it you're sequestering carbon and enhancing the soil.

On the other hand, if you use the SUN☼ directly rather than first converting to chemical or electrical energy, you would be more efficient and entirely carbon neutral.  I would put the sap boiler at the focal point of a big ass parabolic dish.  On a sunny day it would boil sap in no time, no wood.  Make the parabolic collector out of polished aluminum flashing available cheap at Home Depot.

RE
On my alt energy/mad builder bucket list is to build one out of the old 70's sat dishes that still dot the landscape around here.  I checked my boil level and I burned off 60 litres. I really need to throw the wood on the scale next time because that is way better than I was expecting.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on March 24, 2018, 01:14:19 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b2/27/9b/b2279b64eb82c856ebc4efb4664ef742.jpg)
Wood is stored sunlight yes, but if you burn it you're returning CO2 to the atmosphere.  If you make Biochar out of it you're sequestering carbon and enhancing the soil.

On the other hand, if you use the SUN☼ directly rather than first converting to chemical or electrical energy, you would be more efficient and entirely carbon neutral.  I would put the sap boiler at the focal point of a big ass parabolic dish.  On a sunny day it would boil sap in no time, no wood.  Make the parabolic collector out of polished aluminum flashing available cheap at Home Depot.

RE
On my alt energy/mad builder bucket list is to build one out of the old 70's sat dishes that still dot the landscape around here.  I checked my boil level and I burned off 60 litres. I really need to throw the wood on the scale next time because that is way better than I was expecting.

Well, just make sure you get to it while you still have an oxy-acetylene torch and fuel to do the welding!

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 24, 2018, 02:52:33 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b2/27/9b/b2279b64eb82c856ebc4efb4664ef742.jpg)
Wood is stored sunlight yes, but if you burn it you're returning CO2 to the atmosphere.  If you make Biochar out of it you're sequestering carbon and enhancing the soil.

On the other hand, if you use the SUN☼ directly rather than first converting to chemical or electrical energy, you would be more efficient and entirely carbon neutral.  I would put the sap boiler at the focal point of a big ass parabolic dish.  On a sunny day it would boil sap in no time, no wood.  Make the parabolic collector out of polished aluminum flashing available cheap at Home Depot.

RE
On my alt energy/mad builder bucket list is to build one out of the old 70's sat dishes that still dot the landscape around here.  I checked my boil level and I burned off 60 litres. I really need to throw the wood on the scale next time because that is way better than I was expecting.

Well, just make sure you get to it while you still have an oxy-acetylene torch and fuel to do the welding!

RE
funny enough I just bought one. I've been cutting  up everything in sight!
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Palloy2 on March 24, 2018, 04:34:53 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b2/27/9b/b2279b64eb82c856ebc4efb4664ef742.jpg)
Wood is stored sunlight yes, but if you burn it you're returning CO2 to the atmosphere.  If you make Biochar out of it you're sequestering carbon and enhancing the soil.

On the other hand, if you use the SUN☼ directly rather than first converting to chemical or electrical energy, you would be more efficient and entirely carbon neutral.  I would put the sap boiler at the focal point of a big ass parabolic dish.  On a sunny day it would boil sap in no time, no wood.  Make the parabolic collector out of polished aluminum flashing available cheap at Home Depot.

RE

But make sure you don't stand at the focus and evaporate yourself.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on March 24, 2018, 04:43:17 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b2/27/9b/b2279b64eb82c856ebc4efb4664ef742.jpg)
Wood is stored sunlight yes, but if you burn it you're returning CO2 to the atmosphere.  If you make Biochar out of it you're sequestering carbon and enhancing the soil.

On the other hand, if you use the SUN☼ directly rather than first converting to chemical or electrical energy, you would be more efficient and entirely carbon neutral.  I would put the sap boiler at the focal point of a big ass parabolic dish.  On a sunny day it would boil sap in no time, no wood.  Make the parabolic collector out of polished aluminum flashing available cheap at Home Depot.

RE

But make sure you don't stand at the focus and evaporate yourself.

It might make a good trap for Zombies though. 

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 24, 2018, 04:51:10 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b2/27/9b/b2279b64eb82c856ebc4efb4664ef742.jpg)
Wood is stored sunlight yes, but if you burn it you're returning CO2 to the atmosphere.  If you make Biochar out of it you're sequestering carbon and enhancing the soil.

On the other hand, if you use the SUN☼ directly rather than first converting to chemical or electrical energy, you would be more efficient and entirely carbon neutral.  I would put the sap boiler at the focal point of a big ass parabolic dish.  On a sunny day it would boil sap in no time, no wood.  Make the parabolic collector out of polished aluminum flashing available cheap at Home Depot.

RE

But make sure you don't stand at the focus and evaporate yourself.
from everything I've read the most use most of them get is setting things on fire for fun. I salvaged some fresnel lenses a few years back from old rear projection flat screens. Lots of fun while it lasted. In all seriousness solar cooking while not impossible would not be my go to use of time and resources in my part of the world. Maybe small ones for beans in summer.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on March 24, 2018, 05:07:59 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b2/27/9b/b2279b64eb82c856ebc4efb4664ef742.jpg)
Wood is stored sunlight yes, but if you burn it you're returning CO2 to the atmosphere.  If you make Biochar out of it you're sequestering carbon and enhancing the soil.

On the other hand, if you use the SUN☼ directly rather than first converting to chemical or electrical energy, you would be more efficient and entirely carbon neutral.  I would put the sap boiler at the focal point of a big ass parabolic dish.  On a sunny day it would boil sap in no time, no wood.  Make the parabolic collector out of polished aluminum flashing available cheap at Home Depot.

RE

But make sure you don't stand at the focus and evaporate yourself.
from everything I've read the most use most of them get is setting things on fire for fun. I salvaged some fresnel lenses a few years back from old rear projection flat screens. Lots of fun while it lasted. In all seriousness solar cooking while not impossible would not be my go to use of time and resources in my part of the world. Maybe small ones for beans in summer.

Generally speaking, even a 70's era satellite dish is not big enough to be heating a commercial boiler.  But there are other systems that work with tubing and parabolic reflectors that work well and are easily built.

(http://www.ffwdm.com/solar/images/overall_parabollic_collector.jpg)

What you would do in this case is to run distilled water through the pipes and then transfer that heat to the boiler through coils surrounding it, radiator style.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 24, 2018, 05:21:37 PM
Probaby food grade mineral oil for sap boiling. I played enough with steam before finding gasification that I'm not going anywhere near it again. Vicious stuff for the diy builder.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on March 24, 2018, 05:30:28 PM
Probaby food grade mineral oil for sap boiling. I played enough with steam before finding gasification that I'm not going anywhere near it again. Vicious stuff for the diy builder.

No worries.  I figured out a full system now that doesn't require steam generation or all those nasty fittings to stay tight.  It utilizes off the shelf components and  two different methods of extracting the water from the sap to make syrup.  It's kick ass.  I'm going to draw this one up.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 24, 2018, 05:48:22 PM
Plenty of birch trees to experiment on in Alaska.  Lots of renewed interest about birch sap these days.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on March 24, 2018, 06:09:35 PM
Plenty of birch trees to experiment on in Alaska.  Lots of renewed interest about birch sap these days.

I have friends who tap Birch.  I coached one of their daughters for several years.  They sell it every year at the Alaska State Fair.  They have a license to tap 1000s of trees.  The family makes a lot of syrup.

Just about done with the design for the solar system.  Will now write up the post.  I'm sure I will be skewered.  LOL.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 24, 2018, 06:22:36 PM
A few things to remember there is sugar in the fluid and disolved minerals so you need a secondary fluid and no direct contact. Second would be stainless exchangers because it is slightly alkaline so takes on taste from other metals. Finally the minerals deposit and film up everything so all surfaces must be available for cleaning or every thing scales up... Have fun reinventing the wheel millions of people have thought about and experimented with...
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on March 24, 2018, 06:27:10 PM
A few things to remember there is sugar in the fluid and disolved minerals so you need a secondary fluid and no direct contact. Second would be stainless exchangers because it is slightly alkaline so takes on taste from other metals. Finally the minerals deposit and film up everything so all surfaces must be available for cleaning or every thing scales up... Have fun reinventing the wheel millions of people have thought about and experimented with...

I'm using Aluminum for the evaporation tank for the sap/syrup.  I can add a liner though if aluminum would damage the taste.  No contact between the heating liquid and the sap.  Heat exchanger system there.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 24, 2018, 06:57:02 PM
Aluminum and galvanized boil pans were phased out in the 70's and early 80's. You would get no commercial buy in for sure it goes against recomended best practices.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on March 24, 2018, 07:13:56 PM
Aluminum and galvanized boil pans were phased out in the 70's and early 80's. You would get no commercial buy in for sure it goes against recomended best practices.

So what do you use to line your tank?

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 24, 2018, 07:22:37 PM
My boil pan is stainless. Even the sap hold tanks are either food grade plastic or stainless. The tubing is pvc but I don't use it. The buckets on the trees are aluminium.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on March 24, 2018, 07:25:57 PM
My boil pan is stainless. Even the sap hold tanks are either food grade plastic or stainless. The tubing is pvc but I don't use it. The buckets on the trees are aluminium.

OK, I am dropping a Stainless Steel liner into the evaporation tank.  :icon_sunny:

Full system coming up shortly.  Skewer it as you feel fit. lol.

RE
Title: Solar Powered Evaporative Systems
Post by: RE on March 24, 2018, 07:30:19 PM
(http://kpcnotebook.scholastic.com/sites/default/files/styles/a-full-width/public/mapling.jpg?itok=zon-DjAo)

We have been engaged in a discussion about making Syrups from the sap that runs through trees in the spring as they begin the process of putting a new layer of cells in the cambium layer and making new leaves to do Photosynthesis with.  Most of the tree is not really alive, it just serves as a scaffold for a new generation of these cells to reproduce each year.

Sap is a great source of calories, and the Sweet quality of it is quite nice to have on many foods, Pancakes of course in particular.  Although in reality these days few people experience REAL Maple syrup, because it's just too expensive for most people.  What most people know as "Maple Syrup" is the High Fructose Corn Syrup version produced by Aunt Jemima.  ::)  If this is all you ever had for Maple Syrup, I feel sorry for you.  It's NOT Maple Syrup!  You can also do a similar process with Birch Trees, also great on Pancakes and in other recipes with a slightly different quality & taste to it.

Another great thing about syrup making is it doesn't kill the trees and is renewable every year, at least as long as the weather cooperates with you.  I'm no expert on this (others on the Diner are) but I know there is a temperature range which has to be hit to get a good sap flow.

Now, the main issue with the whole process and why it generally costs quite a bit to buy even a pint size bottle of REAL Maple syrup is that the whole bizness is very energy and labor intensive.  You have to tap a LOT of trees to get enough sap to start making some syrup.  Then you have to boil off the excess water in the sap to get the syrup, usually done by using Nat Gas by a commercial producer but individuals will burn wood to do this also.

So I pondered on how you might at least reduce if not entirely eliminate the amount of wood or NG you need to burn to make a pint of syrup?  Can you collect enough HEAT directly from the SUN☼ to do this?  What is the most efficient (and CHEAPEST) way to set up a system for it?

What I came up with was a system using 4 main components.

1- The Solar Heater system:  It's DIY using Parabolic reflectors and piping/tubing.  Besides using such a system for making syrup, it's also useful for heating your McHovel and making hot water for showers.

(http://www.ffwdm.com/solar/images/overall_parabollic_collector.jpg)

One issue with these systems is if you use water, you're going to get steam as it gets really hot, and piping for steam is much tougher to keep from leaking than if it stays liquid.  So instead of water, you use Ethylene Glycol, aka Anti-Freeze for your car.  While water boils at 100C, EtOH boils at 197C.  So you run a closed system to transfer the heat between the heater and the syrup tank.

2- The Syrup Tank

This comes to you off the shelf from Amazon.com or Walmart at Low, Low prices every day.  It's a kid's swimming pool made from aluminum.  Its advantage over a typical Boiler tank is there is a large surface area for evaporation.  You're going to need to line this tank with stainless steel or food grade plastic if you are selling syrup as a commercial operation.

(http://www.poolandspagiant.com/assets/images/bermuda1111.jpg)

You're going to want to cover this with Mosquito Netting to keep the flies and other insects away while you evaporate down your sap to syrup.  To assist in the total evaporation rate you use 1 or two large Swamp Fans to blow air over the surface of the evaporation pool.

3- Swamp Fans
(http://eventsbyfabulous.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Floor-Fan-Large.png)

Depending on ambient air temperature and humidity, this will increase your evaporation rate off the surface by a lot.

In order to power your Swamp Fans, you will need a source of electricity, but you have that already in your off-grid Doomstead to provide electric power to your McHovel for lighting and refrigeration, and also to power your laptop to surf the Internet for Doom and Collapse Newz while it is still up and running!  :icon_sunny:  Electric power for this comes from your SolarPV array.  Swamp Fans don't use too much juice, you won't need a huge array for this purpose.

Finally, you put the whole evaporation pool up on a scaffold built from 2X4s so you can fit under it wood stoves and/or gas heaters.  If you need to increase BTUs some from what you are collecting from Solar, you can add to it with these.  Remember of course the pool will be holding a lot of weight in liquid when full, so will need good support on the bottom.  Probably a support every 18" or so through the whole bottom surface area.

Here is a basic diagram for the system:

Evaporation System
Evaporation System
click the pic for large

OK, now you can skewer me.  :icon_sunny:

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 24, 2018, 07:51:29 PM
Not horrible but please correct a few things. You don't bring car glycol anywhere near human consumed substances everlpp. That shit kills you dead. Commercially you would need a double walled heat exchanger or switch to food grade glycol for boiler systems. Second you put that large a volume of sap in a pool and heat it it will rot. When sap goes off it is candy for every bacteria alive quite literally. Finally you misunderstood; ₩₩₩the plastic tanks are just for holding the sap until you boil. If I was designing it I would build a heat exchange out of stainless tubing I could drop into my wood boiler pan and pull it out when there is no sun. Also some people are pre heating the sap with solar already. No skewer just a hard poke.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Palloy2 on March 24, 2018, 08:05:37 PM
Water boils at a temperature about proportional to the atmospheric pressure on the water, so there must be some low pressure at which water will boil at 15 °C.  It would be much easier to reduce pressure than warm up water by 85 °C, given water's high specific heat.

For 15°C, water will boil at 0.0168 atm (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapour_pressure_of_water )  The effect of having a "boiler" at 0.0168 atm with an outside atmospheric pressure of 1.0 atm could collapse your boiler if it is not strong.  So it may pay to reduce the pressure say 30% and have it boil at 90 °C.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on March 24, 2018, 08:07:13 PM
Not horrible but please correct a few things. You don't bring car glycol anywhere near human consumed substances everlpp. That shit kills you dead. Commercially you would need a double walled heat exchanger or switch to food grade glycol for boiler systems. Second you put that large a volume of sap in a pool and heat it it will rot. When sap goes off it is candy for every bacteria alive quite literally. Finally you misunderstood; ₩₩₩the plastic tanks are just for holding the sap until you boil. If I was designing it I would build a heat exchange out of stainless tubing I could drop into my wood boiler pan and pull it out when there is no sun. Also some people are pre heating the sap with solar already. No skewer just a hard poke.

You could easily substitute smaller pools for tanks, they come a lot cheaper anyhow.

(https://www.embracing-motherhood.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/stock-tank-pool.png)

As long as your system is tight, it really doesn't matter WTF you use inside the closed loop.  However, if you are concerned about leakage, don't use EtOH at all, use soybean oil.  As long as it's in a closed system with no oxygen around to hit the smoke point, that doesn't boil until 300C.

Any more poking here?

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on March 24, 2018, 08:16:10 PM
Water boils at a temperature about proportional to the atmospheric pressure on the water, so there must be some low pressure at which water will boil at 15 °C.  It would be much easier to reduce pressure than warm up water by 85 °C, given water's high specific heat.

For 15°C, water will boil at 0.0168 atm (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapour_pressure_of_water )  The effect of having a "boiler" at 0.0168 atm with an outside atmospheric pressure of 1.0 atm could collapse your boiler if it is not strong.  So it may pay to reduce the pressure say 30% and have it boil at 90 °C.

A Vacuum Chamber would be a good alternative here, and you are right, probably less energy intensive to pump out the atmosphere than heat the liquid.  However, you would need a pretty solid container to contain that kind of pressure differential.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 24, 2018, 08:24:28 PM
Nothing fundamentally wrong except my reactionary sense of the traditional! There is something to the heating process here. Maple syrup is not just concentrated sugar it's almost a caramel. Take away the heat of a boil... who knows.
Good night gentlemen.
David B.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on March 24, 2018, 08:29:06 PM
Nothing fundamentally wrong except my reactionary sense of the traditional! There is something to the heating process here. Maple syrup is not just concentrated sugar it's almost a caramel. Take away the heat of a boil... who knows.
Good night gentlemen.
David B.

You can adjust the heat as you please to just reach the boil point for the syrup.  You can do this simply by shading a portion of the solar collector from the sun's rays if it is heating up the oil too hot, or if you are not getting enough solar to get up to boiling temperature you supplement with some wood or ng heat beneath the boiler.  You're going to use much less wood or charcoal to do this if the solar has already raised the temperature up to near boiling here.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 24, 2018, 08:37:27 PM
Just one more. I'm not a purist really but don't forget post collapse thinking. You have no money, no resources other than the local metal scrapyard the tools in your garage and the natural resources of your land. You are trying to create local sugar at the least amount of cost either for sale to make some money or to replace other purchases. There is a definitive break in the solar world between the bucket or gravity lines people and the vacuum pump reverse osmosis pump station people. I think you are trying to solve the perceived over consumption of wood by substituting a lot of global fossil fueled produced higher tech elements.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on March 24, 2018, 08:51:51 PM
Just one more. I'm not a purist really but don't forget post collapse thinking. You have no money, no resources other than the local metal scrapyard the tools in your garage and the natural resources of your land. You are trying to create local sugar at the least amount of cost either for sale to make some money or to replace other purchases. There is a definitive break in the solar world between the bucket or gravity lines people and the vacuum pump reverse osmosis pump station people. I think you are trying to solve the perceived over consumption of wood by substituting a lot of global fossil fueled produced higher tech elements.

I don't consider most of this stuff to be very "high tech".  It's all just containers and tubing really.  They will be around for quite a while, you can scavenge all the stuff you need from an abandoned McMansion in your neighborhood, and the dead car in the garage.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 25, 2018, 10:58:57 AM
Wrote a longer one that got lost. Here is the wood total for this year's syrup.  I'll add someĺlllp scrap lying around, windblown branches and an arm full of hardwood for nightime. It should make 5 gallons. The logs are part of next year's house wood the branches are usually left to rot or mulched but are perfect for sap boiling. The birch taps are an experiment. 3 taps not one because I'm cutting it down anyways.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on March 25, 2018, 11:03:05 AM
Wrote a longer one that got lost. Here is the wood total for this year's syrup.  I'll add someĺlllp scrap lying around, windblown branches and an arm full of hardwood for nightime. It should make 5 gallons. The logs are part of next year's house wood the branches are usually left to rot or mulched but are perfect for sap boiling. The birch taps are an experiment. 3 taps not one because I'm cutting it down anyways.

That doesn't look too bad.  Not as much as I imagined.

Why are you cutting down the Birch?

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 25, 2018, 11:25:26 AM
It's shading the solar in winter and the front garden with the rasberries . It's close to its limit age wise and would take out the yard fence on the way down.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on March 25, 2018, 11:33:50 AM
It's shading the solar in winter and the front garden with the rasberries . It's close to its limit age wise and would take out the yard fence on the way down.

Good reasons.  Should provide a lot of wood at that size.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 25, 2018, 11:37:33 AM
About 3/4 or a face cord. Birch is nice not as good ass maple but better than spruce. It should be a fun winch job. The tilt is all wrong for easy dropping.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on March 25, 2018, 11:51:17 AM
About 3/4 or a face cord. Birch is nice not as good ass maple but better than spruce. It should be a fun winch job. The tilt is all wrong for easy dropping.

Make sure you get a video!

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 25, 2018, 11:59:51 AM
Only if it goes well!
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: jdwheeler42 on March 25, 2018, 12:01:30 PM
Nothing fundamentally wrong except my reactionary sense of the traditional! There is something to the heating process here. Maple syrup is not just concentrated sugar it's almost a caramel. Take away the heat of a boil... who knows.
You can adjust the heat as you please to just reach the boil point for the syrup.  You can do this simply by shading a portion of the solar collector from the sun's rays if it is heating up the oil too hot, or if you are not getting enough solar to get up to boiling temperature you supplement with some wood or ng heat beneath the boiler.  You're going to use much less wood or charcoal to do this if the solar has already raised the temperature up to near boiling here.
DB definitely has a point here... if you freeze-dry maple sap, you just get sugar, you get none of the characteristic maple flavoring.  The mixture has to get up to somewhere around 70-80 degrees Celsius before the esters start forming that impart the flavor.  However, you can easily remove 50-75% of the water first before starting the boiling process without affecting the flavor.

Coincidentally, another low-tech way of concentrating maple sap has been through freeze distillation.  Pure water freezes first, so if you let the sap freeze partially, the liquid you pour off will have a higher sugar concentration.  Repeat this several times and you can remove about 50% of the water from the sap.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on March 25, 2018, 12:10:53 PM
Only if it goes well!

Bah!  Disaster videos are the ones that GO VIRAL!  :icon_mrgreen:

I am sure it will go fine though.  :icon_sunny:

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: jdwheeler42 on March 25, 2018, 12:17:56 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b2/27/9b/b2279b64eb82c856ebc4efb4664ef742.jpg)
Wood is stored sunlight yes, but if you burn it you're returning CO2 to the atmosphere.  If you make Biochar out of it you're sequestering carbon and enhancing the soil.

On the other hand, if you use the SUN☼ directly rather than first converting to chemical or electrical energy, you would be more efficient and entirely carbon neutral.  I would put the sap boiler at the focal point of a big ass parabolic dish.  On a sunny day it would boil sap in no time, no wood.  Make the parabolic collector out of polished aluminum flashing available cheap at Home Depot.
The neat part about parabolic collectors is that any cross section of a parabola will work, you don't need something that is circular.  For example:

(https://www.engineeringforchange.org/news/images/Feb-2012/Scheffler.JPG)

From the article: https://www.engineeringforchange.org/news/10-solar-cookers-that-work-at-night/ (https://www.engineeringforchange.org/news/10-solar-cookers-that-work-at-night/) which is a good read in itself.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on March 25, 2018, 12:18:23 PM
Nothing fundamentally wrong except my reactionary sense of the traditional! There is something to the heating process here. Maple syrup is not just concentrated sugar it's almost a caramel. Take away the heat of a boil... who knows.
You can adjust the heat as you please to just reach the boil point for the syrup.  You can do this simply by shading a portion of the solar collector from the sun's rays if it is heating up the oil too hot, or if you are not getting enough solar to get up to boiling temperature you supplement with some wood or ng heat beneath the boiler.  You're going to use much less wood or charcoal to do this if the solar has already raised the temperature up to near boiling here.
DB definitely has a point here... if you freeze-dry maple sap, you just get sugar, you get none of the characteristic maple flavoring.  The mixture has to get up to somewhere around 70-80 degrees Celsius before the esters start forming that impart the flavor.  However, you can easily remove 50-75% of the water first before starting the boiling process without affecting the flavor.

Coincidentally, another low-tech way of concentrating maple sap has been through freeze distillation.  Pure water freezes first, so if you let the sap freeze partially, the liquid you pour off will have a higher sugar concentration.  Repeat this several times and you can remove about 50% of the water from the sap.

Nobody has proposed Freeze-Drying here.  PY just proposed lower ambient air pressure to lower the boiling point so you don't need to use so much heat for the boiling.

Far as my design is concerned, as I said you can adjust the temperature however you like, just as you would with a wood fire.  If you are running Soy Bean Oil through your Solar Heater and it is up to say 250F, it will boil the sap by itself, no wood necessary at all.  You may need to supplement that with some wood burning if its cloudy, but you can still adjust the temp as necessary for your ideal reduction.  I'm an expert with reductions, although not Maple Syrup.  Almost all good sauces are reductions though of one sort or another.  The temperature you do it at and the length of time you do it can radically change the flavor.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 25, 2018, 12:27:44 PM
Nothing fundamentally wrong except my reactionary sense of the traditional! There is something to the heating process here. Maple syrup is not just concentrated sugar it's almost a caramel. Take away the heat of a boil... who knows.
You can adjust the heat as you please to just reach the boil point for the syrup.  You can do this simply by shading a portion of the solar collector from the sun's rays if it is heating up the oil too hot, or if you are not getting enough solar to get up to boiling temperature you supplement with some wood or ng heat beneath the boiler.  You're going to use much less wood or charcoal to do this if the solar has already raised the temperature up to near boiling here.
DB definitely has a point here... if you freeze-dry maple sap, you just get sugar, you get none of the characteristic maple flavoring.  The mixture has to get up to somewhere around 70-80 degrees Celsius before the esters start forming that impart the flavor.  However, you can easily remove 50-75% of the water first before starting the boiling process without affecting the flavor.

Coincidentally, another low-tech way of concentrating maple sap has been through freeze distillation.  Pure water freezes first, so if you let the sap freeze partially, the liquid you pour off will have a higher sugar concentration.  Repeat this several times and you can remove about 50% of the water from the sap.
that is where the reverse osmosis gear comes in. All the commercial setups are using it now. You can pull 60 % of the water out. Under a certain size it's not worth it.  I've done the freeze remove method and that was the traditional first nations method before large euro pots showed up.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 25, 2018, 12:30:58 PM
Only if it goes well!

Bah!  Disaster videos are the ones that GO VIRAL!  :icon_mrgreen:

I am sure it will go fine though.  :icon_sunny:

RE
is the site set up for easy youtube in bedding?  It's a pain the way I do it now with the attachment  button on the bottom. I see the others doing pictures but again.  How.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on March 25, 2018, 12:33:13 PM
Only if it goes well!

Bah!  Disaster videos are the ones that GO VIRAL!  :icon_mrgreen:

I am sure it will go fine though.  :icon_sunny:

RE
is the site set up for easy youtube in bedding?  It's a pain the way I do it now with the attachment  button on the bottom. I see the others doing pictures but again.  How.

Leave that shit to me if you do not know how to do it.  If you either send me the raw vid file or drop it on Utoob yourself, I can get the thing up on the Diner, no problem.

RE
Title: Sauce/Syrup Reductions
Post by: RE on March 25, 2018, 12:54:43 PM
For making any tasty sauce, reduction and getting rid of the excess water is a very important part of the process, and how you do it will change the flavor of the sauce in the end tremendously.  It's really basic chemistry at work here, depending on the temperature you do this at, different compounds will form up.  Usually most folks who make sauces just do it at the full boil temperature, but I found over the years you can do better if you stay UNDER the boiling temperature by a few degrees, and just let the water steam off more gradually.  Takes a bit longer, but the result is tastier.

In this video, they simmer at full boil.  I do not approve.  :emthdown:  It is probably though a passable Cabernet Sauce in the end.

http://www.youtube.com/v/p_9QrZnHOuU

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 30, 2018, 03:27:04 PM
Today was the first day of what I would call a good sap day. From 20 taps I collected 100 litres of sap. at 40 to 1 that is 2.5 litres of syrup. It might be a little more than that as its still early.Here is a short tour of my messy hoophouse with the boiler going full tilt. I usually don't fire it up during the day but I have to make the most of free time these days. This brings together a lot of my projects under one roof  :D; Biomass and charcoal production, maple syrup/local food, season extention climate control for more successful food production. I did buy the stainless pan off an oldtimer but at 150 it was money well spent. The hoophouse came my way from a divorce/move from a couple that had a plant nursery for $200. The plastic costs about $100 per layer and is good for 7 years(if you don't drop a tree on it but that is another story!) 
https://youtu.be/lftoBSG9PVw
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on March 30, 2018, 03:52:29 PM
It sounds like you're working your ass off. At least it's a labor of love. My hat is off to you, sir. Let the syrup flow! Magic stuff. Well done!
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 30, 2018, 04:11:21 PM
I can empty 20 buckets in under a half hour and its a pleasant walk in the woods with Tesla (dog she's 12 years old and predates the car). Once the stove is up to temperature you add wood every half hour as you do other things. If you want a break you add 3 or 4 hardwood pieces which buys you an hour. If I was to calculate it its probably about 1/2 to 3/4 of an hour of work per litre of bottled syrup. My friends with the sugar bush spend far less time per litre but have ponnied up over $100000 in gear, building, lines and labour... Its a big gamble. I'm not the industrial type.
 
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on March 30, 2018, 05:12:29 PM
Today was the first day of what I would call a good sap day. From 20 taps I collected 100 litres of sap. at 40 to 1 that is 2.5 litres of syrup. It might be a little more than that as its still early.Here is a short tour of my messy hoophouse with the boiler going full tilt. I usually don't fire it up during the day but I have to make the most of free time these days. This brings together a lot of my projects under one roof  :D; Biomass and charcoal production, maple syrup/local food, season extention climate control for more successful food production. I did buy the stainless pan off an oldtimer but at 150 it was money well spent. The hoophouse came my way from a divorce/move from a couple that had a plant nursery for $200. The plastic costs about $100 per layer and is good for 7 years(if you don't drop a tree on it but that is another story!) 
https://youtu.be/lftoBSG9PVw (https://youtu.be/lftoBSG9PVw)

You should write an article for the Blog on your operation. I'll embed the vid for you here.

http://www.youtube.com/v/lftoBSG9PVw

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 30, 2018, 08:05:38 PM
From 160 litres to 12. Now it goes on the stove for the final boil down. Usually I would wait longer and accumulate more syrup but I have guests for easter and want to finish some.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on March 30, 2018, 08:21:40 PM
From 160 litres to 12. Now it goes on the stove for the final boil down. Usually I would wait longer and accumulate more syrup but I have guests for easter and want to finish some.

Take pics of the Pancakes or Waffles or French Toast smothered in the Maple Syrup! 😋

Do you ever BBQ using Maple Syrup as a baste?

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on March 31, 2018, 06:47:29 AM
Maple glazed ham...
Final step this morning after it had 9 hours to settle. In the sap are trace minerals mostly potassium,  phosphorus, etc basically whatever feeds the tree. You can either buy a nylon filter and pour hot liquid through plastic or you can let it settle out. I'm siphoning off all the top layers this morning. The take was really good. Close to 1 to 30 then 1to40...
Yummy!
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on March 31, 2018, 12:00:33 PM
Maple glazed ham...
Final step this morning after it had 9 hours to settle. In the sap are trace minerals mostly potassium,  phosphorus, etc basically whatever feeds the tree. You can either buy a nylon filter and pour hot liquid through plastic or you can let it settle out. I'm siphoning off all the top layers this morning. The take was really good. Close to 1 to 30 then 1to40...
Yummy!

Looks excellent.  When you get your commercial operation going we can sell it on the Diner. 🤑

RE
Title: Some kids get it...
Post by: Nearingsfault on April 09, 2018, 06:35:51 PM
I always like stories like these. My gasification experiments are waiting on spring and time so I thought I would post someone else's exploits. 14 years old and building his first charcoal powered tractor and charcoal equipment. Close to my heart of course. Here are a few of his links. Check him Out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=24&v=1Z4UiXQZ5to (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=24&v=1Z4UiXQZ5to)

The whole channel is here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJyjYBL2vFKvpRsKduQRPZQ (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJyjYBL2vFKvpRsKduQRPZQ)

And his thread on the tractor build is here: 
http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/jakobs-chracoal-wood-tractor-build/3273 (http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/jakobs-chracoal-wood-tractor-build/3273)

It gives me some comfort that there are people tinkering on the solutions most of us only talk about. No grants, no academics no long philosophical diatribes just regular people hidden in forgotten places building things.
cheers
Title: Re: Some kids get it
Post by: Eddie on April 10, 2018, 04:18:40 AM
Give a kid access to tools and there's not much limit.  Whatever happened to Shop Class?
Title: Look what followed me home
Post by: Nearingsfault on May 15, 2018, 08:46:40 AM
A friend clued me in to a local online auction going on for a 1960 Massey Ferguson 202 Workbull tractor. Its the industrial cousin of the tractor I already have and an easy conversion to run on Woodgas... It has a stock heavy duty loader on the front. She comes home Next tuesday as long as she starts up. Gas engine continental z134 so lots of companies making kits and parts still today. The rubber is at least 20 years old on it still holding air with good tread and no cracking. It was made to be fixed by farmers with handtools. Its a complex machine but built to take a pounding and run into perpetuity... Another addition to the apocalypse agriculture inc fleet.
Title: Re: Look what followed me home
Post by: Eddie on May 15, 2018, 09:05:14 AM
A friend clued me in to a local online auction going on for a 1960 Massey Ferguson 202 Workbull tractor. Its the industrial cousin of the tractor I already have and an easy conversion to run on Woodgas... It has a stock heavy duty loader on the front. She comes home Next tuesday as long as she starts up. Gas engine continental z134 so lots of companies making kits and parts still today. The rubber is at least 20 years old on it still holding air with good tread and no cracking. It was made to be fixed by farmers with handtools. Its a complex machine but built to take a pounding and run into perpetuity... Another addition to the apocalypse agriculture inc fleet.

Nice find. I really need to get to work done on my old tractors. Hydraulic hoses on the backhoe (hard to get to) and the Kubota really probably needs a rebuild (running when parked but smoking a bit more than it should and a leaky rear main), and the IH 474 (hydraulic pump failed). Long way to the nearest decent (affordable) shop, and now I have the LS, so it's easy to put off. I do miss the backhoe.

(http://lstractorusa.com/images/made/cd677d85e3a9781b/DAE_5099-x500H-v1nm_250_125.png)

Mine are all diesel, so when the fuel runs out its done.

Title: Re: Look what followed me home
Post by: RE on May 15, 2018, 09:09:02 AM
Mine are all diesel, so when the fuel runs out its done.

You can't grow Soy Beans?  Sunflowers?

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on May 15, 2018, 09:17:02 AM
I own 38 acres. If I had a big farm somewhere I might be able to grow enough sunflowers to make biodiesel, but I only have maybe 10 acres of arable land. You know that.  In a collapse scenario I'd probably plant corn on most of it for pig feed. I could make enough corn to feed out one or maybe two animals. Tops.

You have to be able to grow big acreage and then extract the oil, which is another whole problem set.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on May 15, 2018, 10:17:41 AM
Agreed once the oil is gone the energy to grow and produce the veg oil is gone as well. My toys will run longer but they will be unmaintainable past a certain point of collapse. They are all about having options and buying time. A good mechanic nearby helps. The Era I prefer are pretty basic machines though. A $50 manual and some wrenches and you are good to go. We'll see...
Title: Re: Look what followed me home
Post by: Nearingsfault on May 15, 2018, 02:33:17 PM
A friend clued me in to a local online auction going on for a 1960 Massey Ferguson 202 Workbull tractor. Its the industrial cousin of the tractor I already have and an easy conversion to run on Woodgas... It has a stock heavy duty loader on the front. She comes home Next tuesday as long as she starts up. Gas engine continental z134 so lots of companies making kits and parts still today. The rubber is at least 20 years old on it still holding air with good tread and no cracking. It was made to be fixed by farmers with handtools. Its a complex machine but built to take a pounding and run into perpetuity... Another addition to the apocalypse agriculture inc fleet.

Nice find. I really need to get to work done on my old tractors. Hydraulic hoses on the backhoe (hard to get to) and the Kubota really probably needs a rebuild (running when parked but smoking a bit more than it should and a leaky rear main), and the IH 474 (hydraulic pump failed). Long way to the nearest decent (affordable) shop, and now I have the LS, so it's easy to put off. I do miss the backhoe.

(http://lstractorusa.com/images/made/cd677d85e3a9781b/DAE_5099-x500H-v1nm_250_125.png)

Mine are all diesel, so when the fuel runs out its done.
A client just bought this: https://www.solectrac.com/eutility (https://www.solectrac.com/eutility)
I think electric small tractors will be the norm within a generation barring total collapse. The new diesels are just so complex they are a maintenance nightmare. Yes they run on less fuel then their older cousins but they are beasts made to be run hard in an industrial capacity and replaced past a certain point. That's fine in the multi 100 hp range but you want something you can use in one hour or 2 hour increments for a generation electric is the way to go. We just installed a 10kW net metered system to help with charging it and offset the house's loads. We will see. The model I like more is their Farmer one https://www.solectrac.com/efarmer (https://www.solectrac.com/efarmer)
Just pared down to bare bones with a honking big battery and powerful motor...
If I had the coin that is where I would put it. JD has one out next year Agco as well. All this presumes BAU keeps going of course.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on May 15, 2018, 03:05:15 PM
I own 38 acres. If I had a big farm somewhere I might be able to grow enough sunflowers to make biodiesel, but I only have maybe 10 acres of arable land. You know that.  In a collapse scenario I'd probably plant corn on most of it for pig feed. I could make enough corn to feed out one or maybe two animals. Tops.

You have to be able to grow big acreage and then extract the oil, which is another whole problem set.

If all you can feed is one or two pigs, then you can't even raise enough food to feed a couple of horses also to take the place of your tractor.  On top of the drought situation, the Toothstead is starting to sound like a White Elephant.  How could you even feed your children and their spouses, forget any kids?

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on May 15, 2018, 03:39:29 PM
I own 38 acres. If I had a big farm somewhere I might be able to grow enough sunflowers to make biodiesel, but I only have maybe 10 acres of arable land. You know that.  In a collapse scenario I'd probably plant corn on most of it for pig feed. I could make enough corn to feed out one or maybe two animals. Tops.

You have to be able to grow big acreage and then extract the oil, which is another whole problem set.

If all you can feed is one or two pigs, then you can't even raise enough food to feed a couple of horses also to take the place of your tractor.  On top of the drought situation, the Toothstead is starting to sound like a White Elephant.  How could you even feed your children and their spouses, forget any kids?

RE
the trick is to throw out the whole commodities farming model that has come to be everyone's image of agriculture. for most of history agriculture was subsistence not business. So he would not raise corn for the pigs he would raise it for himself and the chickens. the pigs would forage the field for leftovers and roots churning things up as well as eat everything that goes moldy or is left on a plate including the slops. For tillage forget the clydesdales fat on grain pulling concrete at a plow match he would probably revert to mule donkey and oxen cultivation for field crops. They live on grass weeds and small shrubs. The bulk of the calories comes from the garden close to home irrigated and cared for. Maybe some year he has a very small reserve of grain and some smoked bacon which he sells off for parts and Novacaine. Maybe advil if its still around! The tractors only have to work long enough to get the fields ready then as scrap... once  a field is a field again a much lower energy model is possible. Conditioning a field with draft animals alone could take years of work.
In my humble opinion of course.  Proving my wonderful theories would take a lifetime of toil.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on May 15, 2018, 03:48:42 PM
So he would not raise corn for the pigs he would raise it for himself and the chickens. the pigs would forage the field for leftovers and roots churning things up as well as eat everything that goes moldy or is left on a plate including the slops.

He didn't say that.  H said he would raise corn to feed the animals, not himself, and that he could only feed two of them.

 
Quote
For tillage forget the clydesdales fat on grain pulling concrete at a plow match he would probably revert to mule donkey and oxen cultivation for field crops. They live on grass weeds and small shrubs.

He doesn't have mule, donkey or oxen, much less Cydesdales.  He has no idea whatsoever how many of any of those animals he can support without actively planting some of the 40 acres with food for the animals.  That's not including the stuff the chickens and the pigs eat.

He also said only 10 of the acres are tillable and arable land good for growing crops.  We are getting quite restricted here on what this property can support, and this is while they are still getting at least some rain.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on May 15, 2018, 03:59:42 PM
So he would not raise corn for the pigs he would raise it for himself and the chickens. the pigs would forage the field for leftovers and roots churning things up as well as eat everything that goes moldy or is left on a plate including the slops.

He didn't say that.  H said he would raise corn to feed the animals, not himself, and that he could only feed two of them.

 
Quote
For tillage forget the clydesdales fat on grain pulling concrete at a plow match he would probably revert to mule donkey and oxen cultivation for field crops. They live on grass weeds and small shrubs.

He doesn't have mule, donkey or oxen, much less Cydesdales.  He has no idea whatsoever how many of any of those animals he can support without actively planting some of the 40 acres with food for the animals.  That's not including the stuff the chickens and the pigs eat.

He also said only 10 of the acres are tillable and arable land good for growing crops.  We are getting quite restricted here on what this property can support, and this is while they are still getting at least some rain.

RE
My point was that a human with tillable land has options. Its a prep. My scenario is pure fiction but plausible. I'm no dry country farmer though. I do know donkeys and mules have been used in similar conditions in the past. That is all.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on May 15, 2018, 04:08:20 PM
I own 38 acres. If I had a big farm somewhere I might be able to grow enough sunflowers to make biodiesel, but I only have maybe 10 acres of arable land. You know that.  In a collapse scenario I'd probably plant corn on most of it for pig feed. I could make enough corn to feed out one or maybe two animals. Tops.

You have to be able to grow big acreage and then extract the oil, which is another whole problem set.

If all you can feed is one or two pigs, then you can't even raise enough food to feed a couple of horses also to take the place of your tractor.  On top of the drought situation, the Toothstead is starting to sound like a White Elephant.  How could you even feed your children and their spouses, forget any kids?

RE

Horses and mules  live on pasture and graze. They only need supplemental food when they're being worked. I could do more than raise ten acres of corn, especially with aquaponics and greenhouse growing. But the bottom line is that if I were intending to be a successful farmer, I could do better on a different plot. A couple of hundred acres would be nice. My grandfather raised a family on that, with mules to plow, and a couple of cows and a pig or two fed out to slaughter when cold weather hit. A big garden. It can be done.

I was only saying that running a tractor on biodiesel would require lots of land, and oil extracting equipment. Your'e going off in 20 directions, making lots of assumptions and drawing conclusions that don't make CFS.
Title: Re: Look what followed me home
Post by: Eddie on May 15, 2018, 04:14:39 PM
A friend clued me in to a local online auction going on for a 1960 Massey Ferguson 202 Workbull tractor. Its the industrial cousin of the tractor I already have and an easy conversion to run on Woodgas... It has a stock heavy duty loader on the front. She comes home Next tuesday as long as she starts up. Gas engine continental z134 so lots of companies making kits and parts still today. The rubber is at least 20 years old on it still holding air with good tread and no cracking. It was made to be fixed by farmers with handtools. Its a complex machine but built to take a pounding and run into perpetuity... Another addition to the apocalypse agriculture inc fleet.


Nice find. I really need to get to work done on my old tractors. Hydraulic hoses on the backhoe (hard to get to) and the Kubota really probably needs a rebuild (running when parked but smoking a bit more than it should and a leaky rear main), and the IH 474 (hydraulic pump failed). Long way to the nearest decent (affordable) shop, and now I have the LS, so it's easy to put off. I do miss the backhoe.

(http://lstractorusa.com/images/made/cd677d85e3a9781b/DAE_5099-x500H-v1nm_250_125.png)

Mine are all diesel, so when the fuel runs out its done.
A client just bought this: https://www.solectrac.com/eutility (https://www.solectrac.com/eutility)
I think electric small tractors will be the norm within a generation barring total collapse. The new diesels are just so complex they are a maintenance nightmare. Yes they run on less fuel then their older cousins but they are beasts made to be run hard in an industrial capacity and replaced past a certain point. That's fine in the multi 100 hp range but you want something you can use in one hour or 2 hour increments for a generation electric is the way to go. We just installed a 10kW net metered system to help with charging it and offset the house's loads. We will see. The model I like more is their Farmer one https://www.solectrac.com/efarmer (https://www.solectrac.com/efarmer)
Just pared down to bare bones with a honking big battery and powerful motor...
If I had the coin that is where I would put it. JD has one out next year Agco as well. All this presumes BAU keeps going of course.

The electric tractor looks very cool. Thanks for posting that. I didn't know there was a commercial product like that available.

I will say that I like my plug-in hybrid car. Both electrical power and fossil fuel capability makes sense in BAU, anyway. The longer I own the Volt, the more impressed I am. I want the new one with 53 mile range. I wish I could get a truck with a similar set-up. VIA Motors was started by people involved with development of the Volt. But they don't sell except to fleets.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on May 15, 2018, 04:35:49 PM
I could do better on a different plot. A couple of hundred acres would be nice. My grandfather raised a family on that, with mules to plow, and a couple of cows and a pig or two fed out to slaughter when cold weather hit. A big garden. It can be done.

The Toothstead isn't a "couple of hundred" acres, it's 40.  What can you raise and feed on that plot, which is already more than you can handle and still drill teeth at the same time?  Can you raise in one year say 2 Pigs for Slaughter, a Dozen Chickens for laying eggs, a Goat or small Cow for Milk & Cheese & feed two mules for doing work tasks?  Add in a Veggie garden in the Greenhouse to that for people food.

RE
Title: wonderful wood heated walipini
Post by: Nearingsfault on May 22, 2018, 06:09:08 AM
We all have mentors and role models. Meet a wood gasser I've talked to for some time. Check out his Walapini with charcoal kiln and cold cellar. He puts me to shame!

https://youtu.be/eMxjZPfNJek

Cheers,  David
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on May 22, 2018, 06:25:34 AM
Nice.

I am nearing the end of tomato season here, I fear. Night time temps now only getting into the low 70's. No more blooms. Lettuce has been over for a couple of weeks. I left my tomatoes in large buckets, which is how I bought them. By not transplanting, I think I lost less fruit.

I have beans coming on.

My garden misses my daughters. It's sad.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on May 22, 2018, 06:31:18 AM
Nice.

I am nearing the end of tomato season here, I fear. Night time temps now only getting into the low 70's. No more blooms. Lettuce has been over for a couple of weeks. I left my tomatoes in large buckets, which is how I bought them. By not transplanting, I think I lost less fruit.

I have beans coming on.

My garden misses my daughters. It's sad.
I formed all my garden beds and am just about to plant. seeds now and transplants in a week. We often get a good killer frost last week of may first of june so I've learned to wait. If I was on top of things I would have cold weather greens going under remay cloth but time is short when you single parent...
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on May 22, 2018, 06:34:46 AM
We have gotten a little rain, and it's amazing how much better the garden does on rainwater than it does on chlorinated city water. Quite noticeable.

Right now the pecan trees on the stead are looking great, but after a dry winter, I look for that to change in a month or two.

I continue to play around with propagating the ancient fig trees left by the pioneer people who lived and died on the stead before my time. I need to take some more cuttings before the sap quits running.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on May 22, 2018, 06:47:28 AM
do it do it now. The pigs are nice but propagation to pass on those genes is essential. Think of how many mini droughts those plants have gone through. They are the survivors of countless tries. In times of trouble they could be worth their weight in gold for yourself or as another trade item. A little luxury in shitty times would fetch a huge premium. I'm supposed to plant 10 grape roots sometime. They are a heritage cold weather adapted juice type an ancestor to the concorde... We will see how they do. The deer are usually more disciplined then I am so my batting average is not great. Off to "work". I bring home my 1960 work bull today hopefully.
Title: Tractor triumph
Post by: Nearingsfault on May 22, 2018, 12:56:43 PM
She made it home. 58 years old sitting completely idle for 2 years and moved once a year for the last 5. We had to sand the points drain the gas add fresh and boom back to life... she is a perfect candidate for gasification. Grinning ear to ear driving it home.
Title: Re: Tractor Triumph
Post by: Eddie on May 22, 2018, 01:10:26 PM
Is that the industrial model with no PTO? Nice tractor in any case.

As you probably know, the old Fords and their clones are very light in front. My Dad  disliked them because he had a cousin who died on one when he turned it over mowing pasture. (He left a widow with four or five very lovely daughters, who used to ride my school bus.)

Dad thought the loader on a Ford made it safer.
Title: Playing with alcohol
Post by: Nearingsfault on June 03, 2018, 06:03:29 PM
So, once upon a time i used to do a fair bit of hiking. Usually weekend warrior stuff but the occasional long trek. I want to do one or two weekend camps this year and have been assessing gear. My go to stove was always the whisperlite that runs on white gas or kerosene. Its a tank and still runs great but the long hikers I know and trust tend to go with alcohol. Not having much experience with them I youtubed and made a few of the coke can variety. Not bad but for $9 I bought this one with a spring loaded stand. I cooked potatoes on it tonight to test it out and am doing a test comparing it to propane. Standard 1 litre boil and duration test with a known quantity of fuel. I know I could make a few gallons a year of pure Alcohol. Having a little bit of fuel would be a nice collapse perk. For now ill just test a stove and dream of hiking. The idea is a can inside a can and small holes for the gasified fuel to escape by. It gives you a hotter burn then the fondue pot type.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Palloy2 on June 03, 2018, 10:01:37 PM
Much more heat/energy if you pressurise and pre-heat the fuel with a dribble of alcohol to get it started - the Primus stove.  Used on the first North and South Pole expeditions and on Everest.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/Primus_Stove.jpg/250px-Primus_Stove.jpg)
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on June 04, 2018, 12:01:50 AM
Much more heat/energy if you pressurise and pre-heat the fuel with a dribble of alcohol to get it started - the Primus stove.  Used on the first North and South Pole expeditions and on Everest.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/Primus_Stove.jpg/250px-Primus_Stove.jpg)

I had  a Primus!  It was my first camping stove, before the days of Propane.  Got it around age 11 after returning from Brazil, it  was a prized possesion.  With me for many camping trips well into my 20s, made  lot of Oatmeal, Scrambled Eggs and coffee on that stove.  Lost track of it when my mom sold MY HOUSE in the 1990s.  It was all brass, very nice.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on June 04, 2018, 05:11:13 AM
Much more heat/energy if you pressurise and pre-heat the fuel with a dribble of alcohol to get it started - the Primus stove.  Used on the first North and South Pole expeditions and on Everest.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/Primus_Stove.jpg/250px-Primus_Stove.jpg)
primus is a nice stove but heavy. My whisper lite uses the same principals. There are some interesting vids about homemade pressurised alcohol I might try one. For the stove above 1 litre boiled in 11 minutes versus 5.5 on the propane burner. Probably not a fair test since calibrating the stove burner to the same strength of flame was impossible. The stove holds 100ml and burned at full strength for 40 minutes. I was happy with it; it boiled, has no parts to fail, and has enough capacity to make a meal.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on June 04, 2018, 05:44:14 AM
I was happy with it; it boiled, has no parts to fail, and has enough capacity to make a meal.

If you want simple with no parts to fail, try Sterno.

(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/311127988362-0-1/s-l1000.jpg)

I have a nice supply laid in the Preps.  If I work through all the Sterno and Propane, it's time to go harvest some wood.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on June 04, 2018, 07:07:07 AM
I have an old Primus somewhere. Is that a Trangia you shared the pics of? I do like the simplicity.

Lately I've been more interested in the kind of expeditionary stove that doesn't require packing fuel. They have rocket stoves down to a couple of pounds now , and when you factor in no carried fuel, I think it becomes an interesting alternative. I have not gotten one yet.

(https://img.etsystatic.com/il/90906b/1211292221/il_570xN.1211292221_en81.jpg?version=0)

https://www.etsy.com/listing/479984412/rocket-outdoor-backpacker-stove-2-x-2?gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_us_c-home_and_living-outdoor_and_garden-fire_pits-fire_pits&utm_custom1=cb46080d-dcf6-4405-af78-99cf1f2996c0&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3uPSp5S62wIVki-BCh0YwQ9GEAQYBCABEgIh6PD_BwE (https://www.etsy.com/listing/479984412/rocket-outdoor-backpacker-stove-2-x-2?gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_us_c-home_and_living-outdoor_and_garden-fire_pits-fire_pits&utm_custom1=cb46080d-dcf6-4405-af78-99cf1f2996c0&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3uPSp5S62wIVki-BCh0YwQ9GEAQYBCABEgIh6PD_BwE)
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on June 04, 2018, 07:40:17 AM
My experience with real ultralight backpacking is virtually nil, but it takes fuel to make a fire, wherever you are. You would have a better idea than I would, how much your Whisperlite uses, but of course it depends on altitude and wind.

How much weight of fuel do you calculate for a weekend trek? The weight savings of alcohol over propane seems fairly negligible to me. People get pretty tripped out trying to save a few ozs.

But whatever fuel you carry has weight. Not exact, I know, but there is an old saying that "a pint is a pound the world around". That's water of course, not alcohol.

(https://thesummitregister.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/MSR-Fuel-Chart-2.jpg)




Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on June 04, 2018, 07:59:59 AM
Looks like the newer wind resistant stoves weigh about a pound, and are maybe 30% more efficient than your Whisperlite. Most of them, you can't simmer, just boil. They aren't $10, but some of the really good ones can be had for a hundred bucks.

What's best depends totally on what conditions you'll be in. Do you need to melt snow for water? To me, that's the most basic question to consider.

Above the timberline my rocket stove idea wouldn't work.

Like the camper fantasy, I have this fantasy of climbing a couple more 14er's before I'm done. I need to get on with it if I'm going to get it done.

(http://cdn-assets.alltrails.com/static-map/production/at-map/13534902/trail-us-colorado-maroon-bells-scenic-loop-trail-at-map-13534902-1523991848-1200x630-3-6.jpg)

This is the Maroon Bells.

My second daughter used to live nearby in her ski bum/river guide days.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on June 04, 2018, 08:01:04 AM
The JetBoil system which runs on Butane is quite nice.

(http://images.gearjunkie.com/uploads/2015/08/jetboil.jpg)

The issue of course with all these portable cooking systems is the fuel availability you have while out in the bush, you can only carry so much with you.  In the right neighborhood, wood is usually available but a lot of places you want to hunt don't have much wood around, the Tundra for instance or above the tree line in the mountains.  Liquid fuels are your best bet giving you the most BTUs by weight.  Sterno is in fact quite hard to beat for its simplicity and BTUs per pound.

Post SHTF world, you are pretty much relegated to wood and alcohol burning stoves.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on June 04, 2018, 08:28:37 AM
Got to remember that fluid ozs is a volume measure commonly used for measuring small amounts of liquid fuel, and isn't a measure of weight.

A big 30 fluid oz Whisperlite bottle full of gas would appear to weigh more than 2 lbs, from what I'm reading. Maybe I don't have that right. It's confusing.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on June 04, 2018, 12:18:59 PM
When I was a kid, one of the first camping adventures I took on my own as opposed to being part of a camping group from Summer Camp was to Mt. Marcy, Lake Tier of the Clouds considered the start point of the Hudson River.  I was around 13 or so.  The photo below looks exactly as I remember it.

(https://80d2853cc4def76b377d-54344bc01a8b066c84096a8e7a3499ac.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/large/230587.jpg)

Lake Tier has the highest lean-to campsite built on Marcy for staying overnight.  It was the first campsite I ever stayed at which had 2 signs on the wall.

1-  The Water from the lake was not potable for drinking.

I did however drink water from my canteen which I had collected from streams on the way up the mountain without boiling, and I did not get sick.  This was of course in the early 70s, before such campsites had been over-camped and over populated by the endless stream of nature worshipping hikers that camped there since.

2- NO CAMPFIRES or cooking fires.

This to me was insane.  What is camping without campfires?  I had my Primus Stove and could "cook" (really just heat up) my freeze dried food, but the whole illusion of being out in "nature" was forever broken for me that day.  I realized how dependent I was on the various industrial civilization products I had with me which enabled me to spend a whole big ONE NIGHT camping at Lake Tier of the Clouds.  I had enough fuel with me for about 2 nights if I was frugal, in case of emergency.  Another day's worth of food I could eat cold like dry salami and cheese.  My backpack was an Aluminum Frame model with the pack itself made from nylon.  My hiking boots were really nice made from real leather and still manufactured in Amerika at that time, but I certainly could not have made anything close to them despite having taken many classes on making Mocassins at Summer Camp.

To get to Mt. Marcy in those daze before I had a Driver's License, I took the Subway into Manhattan at the Port Authority and a bus up to the State Park.  There were just about no services available at the park back then, nowhere to buy stuff if you forgot it in packing up.  About the only things you could buy at the store were batteries and matches.

It was early fall and the leaves had started to turn colors and was quite beautiful, but up at altitude at that time of year is got pretty cold and I couldn't make a fire.  I had a pretty good sleeping bag also made from industrial products although it was real Goose Down not "hollow fill".  I awoke in the morning pretty cold with just my Primus to heat up a package of Swiss Miss Hot Chocolate to warm me up.  I dispensed with the idea of cooking up the eggs I had carefully packed and carried up the mountain for a big breakfast and just ate some Salami & Cheese while I packed up camp, which did not take long since I stayed in the Lean-to and didn't set up my own A-frame "pup' tent, which were the only small camping tents then available before all the Dome tents you see today with the bendable fiberglass supporting poles.

Although I was many years/decades away from being a Doomer then, I realized how the whole "camping" experience was an Illusion and you weren't living any closer to anture than I was living in MY HOUSE in Quees,  About the only thing I ddn't have with me was a TV, in those days they were too big too crry in general.  Today you could bring along your Tablet and many campers do that.  I would likely do that if I still was up to camping at all.

I don't know when they started dropping rules like "No Campfires" down in some National and State Parks, I suspect though it was in the 50s or 60s.  Each year that goes by here we become less and less able to leave the industrial civilizationeven just for short getaways, much less exit entirely to "live off the land".  Fo many if not most Amerikans now also, anything more spartan than car camping in an RV is "roughing it".  The campsite needs Full Hookups with water, sewer and electricity.  In a way though this is less dishonest than the campers who go out with just a backpack and fool themselves they are somehow less  dependent on industrial goods than the car campers are.  All those cool gadgets you bring with you right down to your Swiss Army Knife make it possible for you to pretend you are Robinson Crusoe for a night or two.  It's all fake, a facsimile of nature and you can't get away from it anymore anywhere.

Once upon a time though, it was nice to sit around the campfire and sing "Kumbaya".  :'(  Those days will never come again for RE on this side of the Great Divide.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on June 04, 2018, 12:34:11 PM
In the country where I grew up, there was nothing but private land. 100% private. Mostly small holdings of 100 acres or less.

But guys like my Dad hunted in the woods at night with dogs, and ranged for miles in the woods in the dark, crossing fences when they came to them. Dad was a Coon Hunter...but many nights I can remember we'd be sitting beside a fire (or in warm weather, just sitting in the dark) waiting for the dogs to "tree" and we'd also hear other hunters, fox hunters, doing a similar thing.

Land owners were generally accepting of this kind of trespass, back in earlier times, maybe partly because it was difficult to prevent, but also because it was a very old custom, and the men in the woods were local men, and they were trusted to be responsible.

We don't live the same way now. All towns have the same stores, and the people come and go. Nobody is tied to the land, and those more wealthy people who can still own land generally view it as their responsibility and right to keep everybody else the hell off of it.

Different world. Too many people. All strangers.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on June 04, 2018, 02:15:48 PM
Different world. Too many people. All strangers.

A different world indeed, and the changeover was none too good.  I don't think I would want to go back to Lake Tier of the Clouds now even if I could still hike.  It would depress me too much.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Surly1 on June 04, 2018, 02:16:06 PM
In the country where I grew up, there was nothing but private land. 100% private. Mostly small holdings of 100 acres or less.

But guys like my Dad hunted in the woods at night with dogs, and ranged for miles in the woods in the dark, crossing fences when they came to them. Dad was a Coon Hunter...but many nights I can remember we'd be sitting beside a fire (or in warm weather, just sitting in the dark) waiting for the dogs to "tree" and we'd also hear other hunters, fox hunters, doing a similar thing.

Land owners were generally accepting of this kind of trespass, back in earlier times, maybe partly because it was difficult to prevent, but also because it was a very old custom, and the men in the woods were local men, and they were trusted to be responsible.

We don't live the same way now. All towns have the same stores, and the people come and go. Nobody is tied to the land, and those more wealthy people who can still own land generally view it as their responsibility and right to keep everybody else the hell off of it.

Different world. Too many people. All strangers.

This post really resonated with me. Not because I am any sone of the soil, but the working class area I grew up in outside a city was semi-countrified, as the alleys were old cowpaths, abnd people still kept chickens. People were more tolerant, because they knew one another.

A "hangout" today:
(https://www.mindful.org/wp-content/uploads/seppala-phones.jpg)
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: g on June 04, 2018, 02:29:24 PM
In the country where I grew up, there was nothing but private land. 100% private. Mostly small holdings of 100 acres or less.

But guys like my Dad hunted in the woods at night with dogs, and ranged for miles in the woods in the dark, crossing fences when they came to them. Dad was a Coon Hunter...but many nights I can remember we'd be sitting beside a fire (or in warm weather, just sitting in the dark) waiting for the dogs to "tree" and we'd also hear other hunters, fox hunters, doing a similar thing.

Land owners were generally accepting of this kind of trespass, back in earlier times, maybe partly because it was difficult to prevent, but also because it was a very old custom, and the men in the woods were local men, and they were trusted to be responsible.

We don't live the same way now. All towns have the same stores, and the people come and go. Nobody is tied to the land, and those more wealthy people who can still own land generally view it as their responsibility and right to keep everybody else the hell off of it.

Different world. Too many people. All strangers.

This post really resonated with me. Not because I am any sone of the soil, but the working class area I grew up in outside a city was semi-countrified, as the alleys were old cowpaths, abnd people still kept chickens. People were more tolerant, because they knew one another.

A "hangout" today:
(https://www.mindful.org/wp-content/uploads/seppala-phones.jpg)

"People were more tolerant because they knew each other."

That's it in a nutshell Surly. How I remember the neighborhood of my youth.

Part of it a brick city, part of it small homes close together. For a good half mile or so around my home, everyone knew everybody. Everybody talked now and then and all the kids walked to school and knew everyone and all the other kids.

Guess it was the kind of community that James Kunstler seems to miss so much as well. It was wonderful compared to the isolation of today and neighbors being silent faces going by in cars.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on June 04, 2018, 03:38:56 PM
In the country where I grew up, there was nothing but private land. 100% private. Mostly small holdings of 100 acres or less.

But guys like my Dad hunted in the woods at night with dogs, and ranged for miles in the woods in the dark, crossing fences when they came to them. Dad was a Coon Hunter...but many nights I can remember we'd be sitting beside a fire (or in warm weather, just sitting in the dark) waiting for the dogs to "tree" and we'd also hear other hunters, fox hunters, doing a similar thing.

Land owners were generally accepting of this kind of trespass, back in earlier times, maybe partly because it was difficult to prevent, but also because it was a very old custom, and the men in the woods were local men, and they were trusted to be responsible.

We don't live the same way now. All towns have the same stores, and the people come and go. Nobody is tied to the land, and those more wealthy people who can still own land generally view it as their responsibility and right to keep everybody else the hell off of it.

Different world. Too many people. All strangers.

This post really resonated with me. Not because I am any sone of the soil, but the working class area I grew up in outside a city was semi-countrified, as the alleys were old cowpaths, abnd people still kept chickens. People were more tolerant, because they knew one another.

A "hangout" today:
(https://www.mindful.org/wp-content/uploads/seppala-phones.jpg)

"People were more tolerant because they knew each other."

That's it in a nutshell Surly. How I remember the neighborhood of my youth.

Part of it a brick city, part of it small homes close together. For a good half mile or so around my home, everyone knew everybody. Everybody talked now and then and all the kids walked to school and knew everyone and all the other kids.

Guess it was the kind of community that James Kunstler seems to miss so much as well. It was wonderful compared to the isolation of today and neighbors being silent faces going by in cars.
that truly is a different world. Canada is odd. 70 percent of the population lives in a tiny portion of the land. 90 percent of the landmass is public or what we call crown. Of course it's also frozen and inaccessible 8 months of the years. Lots of land not many people in my part of it. You can technically hike any of it. Some is parks and reserves some under active resource extraction put technically all public.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on June 04, 2018, 07:15:40 PM
When I was a kid, one of the first camping adventures I took on my own as opposed to being part of a camping group from Summer Camp was to Mt. Marcy, Lake Tier of the Clouds considered the start point of the Hudson River.  I was around 13 or so.  The photo below looks exactly as I remember it.

(https://80d2853cc4def76b377d-54344bc01a8b066c84096a8e7a3499ac.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/large/230587.jpg)

Lake Tier has the highest lean-to campsite built on Marcy for staying overnight.  It was the first campsite I ever stayed at which had 2 signs on the wall.

1-  The Water from the lake was not potable for drinking.

I did however drink water from my canteen which I had collected from streams on the way up the mountain without boiling, and I did not get sick.  This was of course in the early 70s, before such campsites had been over-camped and over populated by the endless stream of nature worshipping hikers that camped there since.

2- NO CAMPFIRES or cooking fires.

This to me was insane.  What is camping without campfires?  I had my Primus Stove and could "cook" (really just heat up) my freeze dried food, but the whole illusion of being out in "nature" was forever broken for me that day.  I realized how dependent I was on the various industrial civilization products I had with me which enabled me to spend a whole big ONE NIGHT camping at Lake Tier of the Clouds.  I had enough fuel with me for about 2 nights if I was frugal, in case of emergency.  Another day's worth of food I could eat cold like dry salami and cheese.  My backpack was an Aluminum Frame model with the pack itself made from nylon.  My hiking boots were really nice made from real leather and still manufactured in Amerika at that time, but I certainly could not have made anything close to them despite having taken many classes on making Mocassins at Summer Camp.

To get to Mt. Marcy in those daze before I had a Driver's License, I took the Subway into Manhattan at the Port Authority and a bus up to the State Park.  There were just about no services available at the park back then, nowhere to buy stuff if you forgot it in packing up.  About the only things you could buy at the store were batteries and matches.

It was early fall and the leaves had started to turn colors and was quite beautiful, but up at altitude at that time of year is got pretty cold and I couldn't make a fire.  I had a pretty good sleeping bag also made from industrial products although it was real Goose Down not "hollow fill".  I awoke in the morning pretty cold with just my Primus to heat up a package of Swiss Miss Hot Chocolate to warm me up.  I dispensed with the idea of cooking up the eggs I had carefully packed and carried up the mountain for a big breakfast and just ate some Salami & Cheese while I packed up camp, which did not take long since I stayed in the Lean-to and didn't set up my own A-frame "pup' tent, which were the only small camping tents then available before all the Dome tents you see today with the bendable fiberglass supporting poles.

Although I was many years/decades away from being a Doomer then, I realized how the whole "camping" experience was an Illusion and you weren't living any closer to anture than I was living in MY HOUSE in Quees,  About the only thing I ddn't have with me was a TV, in those days they were too big too crry in general.  Today you could bring along your Tablet and many campers do that.  I would likely do that if I still was up to camping at all.

I don't know when they started dropping rules like "No Campfires" down in some National and State Parks, I suspect though it was in the 50s or 60s.  Each year that goes by here we become less and less able to leave the industrial civilizationeven just for short getaways, much less exit entirely to "live off the land".  Fo many if not most Amerikans now also, anything more spartan than car camping in an RV is "roughing it".  The campsite needs Full Hookups with water, sewer and electricity.  In a way though this is less dishonest than the campers who go out with just a backpack and fool themselves they are somehow less  dependent on industrial goods than the car campers are.  All those cool gadgets you bring with you right down to your Swiss Army Knife make it possible for you to pretend you are Robinson Crusoe for a night or two.  It's all fake, a facsimile of nature and you can't get away from it anymore anywhere.

Once upon a time though, it was nice to sit around the campfire and sing "Kumbaya".  :'(  Those days will never come again for RE on this side of the Great Divide.

RE
I understand your pain but my true backpacking experiences were quite nice. Usually deactivated forestry roads, topo maps to choose routes(today google maps maybe) game trails, lakes without names. Fishing maybe catching a perch or two for dinner.  Good luck enforcing a no fire rule when nobody and I mean nobody has walked that ground for years. Somedays 20kms somedays 4. Usually rice, beans, oatmeal,  Trail mix,maybe some sardines. I have not done more then 4 days in over 10 years. Yes you are not totally removed from the industrial world but nobody has been in a millennia if you start drilling down deep enough.  Since kids I have been car camping only. Its been fine but constrained.
Title: SHTF water pumping
Post by: Nearingsfault on July 01, 2018, 05:01:04 PM
So as some of you remember it came up on C5 thread about running a motor directly on solar with no batteries. I know it can be done But it works well with a project I've been meaning to do for a while. We originally had a rv pump for water then a friend of mine hooked me up with a piston pump.  A wonderful simple to fix extremely energy efficient way to pump water for shallow wells. Basically a hand pump with a motor.  It was left outside one winter and cracked, my bad. We switched it out of the house for a jet pump but I've regretted it since.  This add came up:
 https://www.kijiji.ca/v-home-outdoor-other/muskoka/five-duro-piston-pumps/1365253222?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true (https://www.kijiji.ca/v-home-outdoor-other/muskoka/five-duro-piston-pumps/1365253222?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true)
5 for $400 3 identical ones all duros(that is a really good kind). The nice thing is I can hook up one of my treadmill motors to it and run it directly on a panel with no batteries since its a variable voltage dc motor... With that big flywheel I could even hook it up to a bicycle someday. Meanwhile ill also restore one for the house. They will all get a new gasket, new Leather cups (yes leather believe it or not) new valve springs and brass quick connect fittings. I should be good for pumps for the rest of my life... maybe my kids lives as well since the pumps are all already 50 years old. I'll go see him this week.
Title: Re: SHTF water pumping
Post by: Eddie on July 01, 2018, 05:40:15 PM
So as some of you remember it came up on C5 thread about running a motor directly on solar with no batteries. I know it can be done But it works well with a project I've been meaning to do for a while. We originally had a rv pump for water then a friend of mine hooked me up with a piston pump.  A wonderful simple to fix extremely energy efficient way to pump water for shallow wells. Basically a hand pump with a motor.  It was left outside one winter and cracked, my bad. We switched it out of the house for a jet pump but I've regretted it since.  This add came up:
 https://www.kijiji.ca/v-home-outdoor-other/muskoka/five-duro-piston-pumps/1365253222?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true (https://www.kijiji.ca/v-home-outdoor-other/muskoka/five-duro-piston-pumps/1365253222?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true)
5 for $400 3 identical ones all duros(that is a really good kind). The nice thing is I can hook up one of my treadmill motors to it and run it directly on a panel with no batteries since its a variable voltage dc motor... With that big flywheel I could even hook it up to a bicycle someday. Meanwhile ill also restore one for the house. They will all get a new gasket, new Leather cups (yes leather believe it or not) new valve springs and brass quick connect fittings. I should be good for pumps for the rest of my life... maybe my kids lives as well since the pumps are all already 50 years old. I'll go see him this week.

Nice. I might be able to rig something like that on the old pioneer well. I doubt it's very deep. What's the maximum depth for something like that? Do you know off hand?

I know jet pumps are very limited. Everyone used those where I grew up, but they're worthless around here in most places.
Title: Re: SHTF water pumping
Post by: Nearingsfault on July 01, 2018, 08:50:36 PM
So as some of you remember it came up on C5 thread about running a motor directly on solar with no batteries. I know it can be done But it works well with a project I've been meaning to do for a while. We originally had a rv pump for water then a friend of mine hooked me up with a piston pump.  A wonderful simple to fix extremely energy efficient way to pump water for shallow wells. Basically a hand pump with a motor.  It was left outside one winter and cracked, my bad. We switched it out of the house for a jet pump but I've regretted it since.  This add came up:
 https://www.kijiji.ca/v-home-outdoor-other/muskoka/five-duro-piston-pumps/1365253222?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true (https://www.kijiji.ca/v-home-outdoor-other/muskoka/five-duro-piston-pumps/1365253222?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true)
5 for $400 3 identical ones all duros(that is a really good kind). The nice thing is I can hook up one of my treadmill motors to it and run it directly on a panel with no batteries since its a variable voltage dc motor... With that big flywheel I could even hook it up to a bicycle someday. Meanwhile ill also restore one for the house. They will all get a new gasket, new Leather cups (yes leather believe it or not) new valve springs and brass quick connect fittings. I should be good for pumps for the rest of my life... maybe my kids lives as well since the pumps are all already 50 years old. I'll go see him this week.

Nice. I might be able to rig something like that on the old pioneer well. I doubt it's very deep. What's the maximum depth for something like that? Do you know off hand?

I know jet pumps are very limited. Everyone used those where I grew up, but they're worthless around here in most places.
I know of people who have run them up to 50 ft of depth. You would have to have a good foot valve at that depth with a low friction seal as they tend to jam up due to the back pressure. you would position it at the well. The rise after the pump on a piston pump is only limited by motor strength. DO you know what depth your pump is at now and what depth your water table is at at its worse. I know here they will drill to they hit good flow but then the water table ends up being 30-50 ft from the surface. Then they hang the pump 250ft down... requiring a monster 240 pump to lift it all the way.  If you are serious about your low power options I can quiz a friend of mine in WA state. He is a deep well old school specialist. He actually have a shaft connected piston pump that sits 200ft down in his well. Massive flywheel, gas powered. He will tell you use the damn 240 pump but he has that knowledge base to make that call... Here is a video of the duro I'm getting working
http://www.youtube.com/v/4MForUC03UY?ecver=1
Title: SHTF water pumping part 2
Post by: Nearingsfault on July 04, 2018, 12:08:12 PM
So it actually happened. The price was right so I'm the owner of 5 piston pumps. 4 of them are the duro 255 1 duro 365. One 255 and the 365 were recently rebuilt and are working fine. The other 3 need work but he had extra motors and parts for them. The 365 means 365 gallons of water per hour at 1/2 hp not sure at what pressure that is. I'll have to test. The big boy will go straight to the garden as it's so dry this summer. More when I get it in...
Title: Re: SHTF water pumping part 2
Post by: K-Dog on July 04, 2018, 12:51:13 PM
So it actually happened. The price was right so I'm the owner of 5 piston pumps. 4 of them are the duro 255 1 duro 365. One 255 and the 365 were recently rebuilt and are working fine. The other 3 need work but he had extra motors and parts for them. The 365 means 365 gallons of water per hour at 1/2 hp not sure at what pressure that is. I'll have to test. The big boy will go straight to the garden as it's so dry this summer. More when I get it in...

1,000,000 foot pounds is equal to 1/2 hp hour.  A gallon of water is 8.35 pounds and (365*8.35) is 3048 pounds.  I did not show the dimensional units canceling as I'd do on paper.

1) 1,000,000 foot pounds

2) 3048 pounds

How many feet?  The answer is 328 feet.

We know it won't be that high but physics now says it can't ever be higher than that.  Lets assume the gas engine lifts water with a 20% efficiency.  The max height is now 66 feet.  That would be great but the original 365 gallon rating was at full speed with no back-pressure and as soon as back-pressure from going uphill gets into the picture the motor is going to begin to lag. 

Imagining the sound of the thing slowing down in my head I think you are going to be able to pump 20 feet uphill without too much loss in your 365 gallon rating.

This is a total guess.
Title: Re: SHTF water pumping part 2
Post by: Nearingsfault on July 04, 2018, 01:11:45 PM
So it actually happened. The price was right so I'm the owner of 5 piston pumps. 4 of them are the duro 255 1 duro 365. One 255 and the 365 were recently rebuilt and are working fine. The other 3 need work but he had extra motors and parts for them. The 365 means 365 gallons of water per hour at 1/2 hp not sure at what pressure that is. I'll have to test. The big boy will go straight to the garden as it's so dry this summer. More when I get it in...

1,000,000 foot pounds is equal to 1/2 hp hour.  A gallon of water is 8.35 pounds and (365*8.35) is 3048 pounds.  I did not show the dimensional units canceling as I'd do on paper.

1) 1,000,000 foot pounds

2) 3048 pounds

How many feet?  The answer is 328 feet.

We know it won't be that high but physics now says it can't ever be higher than that.  Lets assume the gas engine lifts water with a 20% efficiency.  The max height is now 66 feet.  That would be great but the original 365 gallon rating was at full speed with no back-pressure and as soon as back-pressure from going uphill gets into the picture the motor is going to begin to lag. 

Imagining the sound of the thing slowing down in my head I think you are going to be able to pump 20 feet uphill without too much loss in your 365 gallon rating.

This is a total guess.
the 365 will be for the garden so 10ft of depth on the Sandpoint and no rise after that. Some drag from the 3/4 irrigation line. Ill use the smaller pump for the house. I've found with the piston pumps they work best at midpressure and staying on instead of cycling like a jet does. They work better with a larger pressure tank as well. They can do crazy pressure you just need a stronger motor or a smaller pulley on it for more torque. I'll aim for 40 lbs as a good pressure for weeping hose in the garden. 30 lbs for the house makes a good solid shower. You are right you hear the tack a tack a tack change as it's about to shut off.  Thanks for the math.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: K-Dog on July 04, 2018, 03:24:40 PM
An online sea water calculator gives 40 psi at 57 feet.  I won't bother correcting for fresh water.

I guessed 20% efficiency for internal combustion which gave 66 feet.  My back of a napkin physics seems to match so far.  I'll bump up what it can pump at volume to 30 feet from my previous guess of 20 because of what you said about working best at mid-pressure.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on July 04, 2018, 07:53:37 PM
An online sea water calculator gives 40 psi at 57 feet.  I won't bother correcting for fresh water.

I guessed 20% efficiency for internal combustion which gave 66 feet.  My back of a napkin physics seems to match so far.  I'll bump up what it can pump at volume to 30 feet from my previous guess of 20 because of what you said about working best at mid-pressure.
Why use an internal combustion engine to work out the math? the pumps us ac 1/2 hp motors. The small ones might be 1/3hp...
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: K-Dog on July 04, 2018, 11:14:14 PM
An online sea water calculator gives 40 psi at 57 feet.  I won't bother correcting for fresh water.

I guessed 20% efficiency for internal combustion which gave 66 feet.  My back of a napkin physics seems to match so far.  I'll bump up what it can pump at volume to 30 feet from my previous guess of 20 because of what you said about working best at mid-pressure.
Why use an internal combustion engine to work out the math? the pumps us ac 1/2 hp motors. The small ones might be 1/3hp...

I did not know that.  I should have looked at the picture.  Small 1/2 power motors are probably 60% efficient so the theoretical lift is now over an hundred feet.  How much I'll guess will depend on how the motor is constructed.  I don't know anything about these things and am just playing with the energy relationships.  It would be fun to put together something that pumped water up to a holding pond and then got electricity back by having the  motor function as a generator.  I think I read somewhere that DC motors in dishwashers could be used in such a way.

I found this:

(https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/docs/documents/753/horsepower_water_gpm_head.png)

It is telling me that my previous calculation was correct and it comes down to how efficient the motor is.  I found this:

Inefficiencies also occur from the friction of water against a rotating pump impeller as it imparts flow and pressure energy to the water. Depending on the size and type, motors are typically 80 to 95 percent efficient and pumps are typically 50 to 85 percent efficient.

I will still go for 60% for a fractional horsepower motor and I'll pick 70% for pump efficiency.  Total efficiency multiplies out to be is 42%.  Max height was 328 feet so the new height is 138 feet.  The back-pressure is 60 psi at 138 feet.

http://docs.bluerobotics.com/calc/pressure-depth/ (http://docs.bluerobotics.com/calc/pressure-depth/)  <== this calculator can do both sea or fresh water.  Turns out not to be much different.

Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on July 05, 2018, 01:10:27 PM
An online sea water calculator gives 40 psi at 57 feet.  I won't bother correcting for fresh water.

I guessed 20% efficiency for internal combustion which gave 66 feet.  My back of a napkin physics seems to match so far.  I'll bump up what it can pump at volume to 30 feet from my previous guess of 20 because of what you said about working best at mid-pressure.
Why use an internal combustion engine to work out the math? the pumps us ac 1/2 hp motors. The small ones might be 1/3hp...

I did not know that.  I should have looked at the picture.  Small 1/2 power motors are probably 60% efficient so the theoretical lift is now over an hundred feet.  How much I'll guess will depend on how the motor is constructed.  I don't know anything about these things and am just playing with the energy relationships.  It would be fun to put together something that pumped water up to a holding pond and then got electricity back by having the  motor function as a generator.  I think I read somewhere that DC motors in dishwashers could be used in such a way.

I found this:

(https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/docs/documents/753/horsepower_water_gpm_head.png)

It is telling me that my previous calculation was correct and it comes down to how efficient the motor is.  I found this:

Inefficiencies also occur from the friction of water against a rotating pump impeller as it imparts flow and pressure energy to the water. Depending on the size and type, motors are typically 80 to 95 percent efficient and pumps are typically 50 to 85 percent efficient.

I will still go for 60% for a fractional horsepower motor and I'll pick 70% for pump efficiency.  Total efficiency multiplies out to be is 42%.  Max height was 328 feet so the new height is 138 feet.  The back-pressure is 60 psi at 138 feet.

http://docs.bluerobotics.com/calc/pressure-depth/ (http://docs.bluerobotics.com/calc/pressure-depth/)  <== this calculator can do both sea or fresh water.  Turns out not to be much different.
I better get off my butt and get that pump in! The rotational inefficiencies you mentioned are probably what makes jet pumps use up to twice the power for the same volume of water. Piston pumps are just that a piston moving back and forth with valves preventing back flow.
Title: SHTF water pumping restoration
Post by: Nearingsfault on July 05, 2018, 08:32:37 PM
Damn I will miss the internet if it goes away. This guy is my new Piston Pump hero...
http://www.youtube.com/v/DRYiZVaBKMY?ecver=1
http://www.youtube.com/v/8mhV9zYtN5Q?ecver=1
Title: SHTF water pumping victory
Post by: Nearingsfault on July 07, 2018, 03:37:51 PM
Inspired by the above videos and egged on by some detailed math from Kdog I restored one of my piston pumps. the valves were stuck and gummed up with rust flakes as shown in the pics below. I purchased a 20 dollar rebuild kit but only changed the upper and lower gasket. It sat in a basement for 10 years so I wanted to see if it would work with the original valves, springs and leathers. It turns out once the gunk was cleaned out it works like a charm. If you watch the video to the end you will see a kill a watt reading fluctuating between 230 and 312 watts with a peak watt rating of 450 watts at start up. I know it is outperforming the jet pump in the house which for comparison draws 1050 watts while running and over 2kW at start up. I still have to do some back to back quantified testing but I know what that sprinkler outputs running on a jet and the piston is rocking it putting out at least 4-5 gpm.  So, why does it matter? Running on solar if you can pump the same volume of water with one third the watts and a very small start up spike your inverter will last longer, your batteries will last longer and you will need less capacity and storage. All for a $70 60 year old pump and a 20 dollar kit of leathers, gaskets,  and rubber disks. It makes you wonder what other modern efficiencies are out there to debunk. If you have a shallow well and use solar a piston pump is a great go to water solution.

http://www.youtube.com/v/uau4M_WaIok?ecver=1
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on July 07, 2018, 04:10:04 PM
Fucking awesome. Beers all around.

Well done David, and thanks for sharing the process.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on July 07, 2018, 04:18:56 PM
Fucking awesome. Beers all around.

Well done David, and thanks for sharing the process.
I was thinking beers and running through the sprinkler... It was 32 degrees celsius today. Nothing for you but us poor northern boys are melting.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Agent Graves on July 07, 2018, 06:19:01 PM
Nice work
Title: chicken garden prep
Post by: Nearingsfault on September 10, 2018, 04:25:57 PM
My lovely ladies have had a rough run of it this summer. We are down 1 laying bird to 4 and 5 of the 12 younger ones. I sold 5 to a neighbour as well. My males all got it so I got rid of the extra birds to reduce the winter work. In summer at least half their food is coming from foraging. Come winter between being cooped up and more calories for staying warm its not worth keeping them all. I decided to purchase a mobile electric fence kit. The idea is you can concentrate where they roam so they destroy everything in a small plot of grass instead of pick and choose only their favourite bits. The predator deterrence is a bonus. The beat up trailer has an almost rusted through frame so too weak for the road it was dirt cheap and still strong enough for my purposes. This plot will probably be part squash part strawberries next year.  I don't know if this is a good post collapse tech or not... The fence energizer is the fail point but  at its heart its a capacitor charge circuit and a timer trigger. The technology predates the Integrated circuit that runs it now so it should be possible to jury rig something. My grandfather used to have one with a rotating tiny motor that was the timer circuit and capacitors and resistors are as old as electronics...








Title: Re: chicken garden prep
Post by: RE on September 10, 2018, 04:57:48 PM
My lovely ladies have had a rough run of it this summer. We are down 1 laying bird to 4 and 5 of the 12 younger ones. I sold 5 to a neighbour as well. My males all got it so I got rid of the extra birds to reduce the winter work. In summer at least half their food is coming from foraging. Come winter between being cooped up and more calories for staying warm its not worth keeping them all. I decided to purchase a mobile electric fence kit. The idea is you can concentrate where they roam so they destroy everything in a small plot of grass instead of pick and choose only their favourite bits. The predator deterrence is a bonus. The beat up trailer has an almost rusted through frame so too weak for the road it was dirt cheap and still strong enough for my purposes. This plot will probably be part squash part strawberries next year.  I don't know if this is a good post collapse tech or not... The fence energizer is the fail point but  at its heart its a capacitor charge circuit and a timer trigger. The technology predates the Integrated circuit that runs it now so it should be possible to jury rig something. My grandfather used to have one with a rotating tiny motor that was the timer circuit and capacitors and resistors are as old as electronics...

Nice Pics!  :icon_sunny:

How many eggs/week do you figure to get through the winter from the remaining Chooks?

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on September 10, 2018, 05:35:47 PM
the two young ones are 3 months old they will start laying in 3 months. the 4 older birds are 9 months so should keep putting out an egg a day for the next 6-8 months as long as they have enough feed and I keep a light in the coupe to give them their 12 hours of light. If you don't do the light they will slow down to an egg every other day. After that sometime within the next year they will probably moult where they loose a lot of feathers and stop laying for a few months then they will come back to 3 days out of 4 wash repeat... each time they come back they lay less. Some people send them to the pot after the second moult. A lot of this is best guesses as they all behave a little differently. Since my birds run around and eat grass and bugs they tend to live longer I find then what they are supposed to according to the producer. 
This is the reference I go by:  https://www.thehappychickencoop.com/chicken-life-cycle/ (https://www.thehappychickencoop.com/chicken-life-cycle/)
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on September 10, 2018, 05:59:50 PM
Nicely done.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on October 10, 2018, 03:38:35 PM
I've been interested in collapse for a very long time.  After lurking for a while on the diner I thought I would share one of my favorite projects.  This is my 1953 ferguson tea20 tractor.  It has been modified to run on charcoal.  Charcoal gasification suits my cold woodland.
The full thread can be found here: http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/my-charcoal-tractor/1200 (http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/my-charcoal-tractor/1200)
Here is a video of it running:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQHN7lGI6ok (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQHN7lGI6ok)
and a stationary walk around
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DKOWNKsl30 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DKOWNKsl30)
The theory I was working on was the fuel to run the machinery will run out long before the machines stop working. This Era of tractor was made to survive as well.  Every part for it is still available and it was the most common tractor of its day so spares are still common. Fixed with hand tools and made to run even in poor repair. I'm a great fan of manual labour but I want to put it off as long as possible as the long descent gets under way. It can log, plow, cultivate, pull trailers, you name it.
Best regards, David Baillie
Time to refocus on this one. I spent a good part of today tinkering with my charcoal powered tractor. I had to put most projects aside this year dealing with personal stuff so the garden suffered. I'm all for low energy methods but let me tell you an hour of tractor fuelled cultivator beats the hell out of 3 days of back breaking labour. Total fuel consumed about 10 gallons of hardwood charcoal just shy of 14 Lbs. In terms of gasoline equivalent that is about 1 gallon. If you've watched any of my linked videos you know I make my charcoal in my wood stove over the winter. This would have represented the coals from 24 hours of mid winter fires but honestly it probably took me 2 evenings of shovelling coals to accumulate this much as I'm not a fanatic or desperate. I still don't know how to embed pictures so look at the bottom. i'll embed some you tube videos in case you missed them. And yes RE I will take a video this fall. I have committed to plowing 2 peoples lawns up to convert to gardens next year. I'll arrange to record that. I'll be revisiting my energy resiliency work this fall and winter with the goal of regearing the house for full off grid again. That is a 2 year project though. For now just some rehashed stuff.
Tractor walk around:
http://www.youtube.com/v/5DKOWNKsl30?ecver=1

Tractor running on charcoal all nice and pretty at the fair:
http://www.youtube.com/v/sQHN7lGI6ok?ecver=1

char making last winter:
http://www.youtube.com/v/LKZPTBA-boU?ecver=1
I'm always amazed how well charcoal gasification technology matches my cold wood covered area. That same 10 gallons of charcoal run through a generator would have represented 6-8kW Hr of battery charging goodness.
Talk soon,  David
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on October 10, 2018, 04:29:43 PM
Nice machine.

I am somewhat jealous of your tractor.One of the better pieces of sustainable mechanization I've seen anyone come up with.

Your pace is starting to look as well equipped with old farm equipment as my place, and unlike me,you're actually using it. Kudos to you , David.

 Don't forget to teach your girls how to drive a tractor. I remember how much fun I had. I learned how to crank the '39 Farmall (hand cranked) when I was nine. That crank always scared the hell out of me. I'd forgotten about that part. If wanted to ride, I had to crank. LOL.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on October 10, 2018, 05:01:54 PM
I've been interested in collapse for a very long time.  After lurking for a while on the diner I thought I would share one of my favorite projects.  This is my 1953 ferguson tea20 tractor.  It has been modified to run on charcoal.  Charcoal gasification suits my cold woodland.
The full thread can be found here: http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/my-charcoal-tractor/1200 (http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/my-charcoal-tractor/1200)
Here is a video of it running:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQHN7lGI6ok (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQHN7lGI6ok)
and a stationary walk around
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DKOWNKsl30 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DKOWNKsl30)
The theory I was working on was the fuel to run the machinery will run out long before the machines stop working. This Era of tractor was made to survive as well.  Every part for it is still available and it was the most common tractor of its day so spares are still common. Fixed with hand tools and made to run even in poor repair. I'm a great fan of manual labour but I want to put it off as long as possible as the long descent gets under way. It can log, plow, cultivate, pull trailers, you name it.
Best regards, David Baillie
Time to refocus on this one. I spent a good part of today tinkering with my charcoal powered tractor. I had to put most projects aside this year dealing with personal stuff so the garden suffered. I'm all for low energy methods but let me tell you an hour of tractor fuelled cultivator beats the hell out of 3 days of back breaking labour. Total fuel consumed about 10 gallons of hardwood charcoal just shy of 14 Lbs. In terms of gasoline equivalent that is about 1 gallon. If you've watched any of my linked videos you know I make my charcoal in my wood stove over the winter. This would have represented the coals from 24 hours of mid winter fires but honestly it probably took me 2 evenings of shovelling coals to accumulate this much as I'm not a fanatic or desperate. I still don't know how to embed pictures so look at the bottom. i'll embed some you tube videos in case you missed them. And yes RE I will take a video this fall. I have committed to plowing 2 peoples lawns up to convert to gardens next year. I'll arrange to record that. I'll be revisiting my energy resiliency work this fall and winter with the goal of regearing the house for full off grid again. That is a 2 year project though. For now just some rehashed stuff.
Tractor walk around:
http://www.youtube.com/v/5DKOWNKsl30?ecver=1

Tractor running on charcoal all nice and pretty at the fair:
http://www.youtube.com/v/sQHN7lGI6ok?ecver=1

char making last winter:
http://www.youtube.com/v/LKZPTBA-boU?ecver=1
I'm always amazed how well charcoal gasification technology matches my cold wood covered area. That same 10 gallons of charcoal run through a generator would have represented 6-8kW Hr of battery charging goodness.
Talk soon,  David

BLOG ARTICLE!

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on October 11, 2018, 02:08:22 PM
Nice machine.

I am somewhat jealous of your tractor.One of the better pieces of sustainable mechanization I've seen anyone come up with.

Your pace is starting to look as well equipped with old farm equipment as my place, and unlike me,you're actually using it. Kudos to you , David.

 Don't forget to teach your girls how to drive a tractor. I remember how much fun I had. I learned how to crank the '39 Farmall (hand cranked) when I was nine. That crank always scared the hell out of me. I'd forgotten about that part. If wanted to ride, I had to crank. LOL.
yes the yard is getting crowded. You can make out the David brown in one shot. Its diesel and I just sold it to a friend. The other one you can sort of see is my massey' Ferguson 1960 work bull with loader and backhoe attachment. Its gas so it will probably get the same treatment as the tea20. My grandfather taught me at 7 to push the pedals and have me drive. I think I'll wait to next year for Darcy. She's already been on a few years back and is always eager.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: azozeo on October 11, 2018, 02:16:58 PM
 :emthup: :emthup: :emthup:

Just frickin awesome.

VW had a few coal-burner pre-war beetles that they cobbed together before the petro was flowing in '45.

I'll see if I can scrounge up a pic or something on those rigs.

Good job amigo  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on October 11, 2018, 02:27:23 PM
:emthup: :emthup: :emthup:

Just frickin awesome.

VW had a few coal-burner pre-war beetles that they cobbed together before the petro was flowing in '45.

I'll see if I can scrounge up a pic or something on those rigs.

Good job amigo  :icon_mrgreen:
throughout occupied Europe and eastern Europe during the 2nd world war there were hundred of thousands of vehicles either converted or factory made running on charcoal, wood, and coal. Usually civilian vehicles but some military ones as well. Germany never had enough fuel so they were most developed there.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on October 11, 2018, 05:10:35 PM
Nice machine.

I am somewhat jealous of your tractor.One of the better pieces of sustainable mechanization I've seen anyone come up with.

Your pace is starting to look as well equipped with old farm equipment as my place, and unlike me,you're actually using it. Kudos to you , David.

 Don't forget to teach your girls how to drive a tractor. I remember how much fun I had. I learned how to crank the '39 Farmall (hand cranked) when I was nine. That crank always scared the hell out of me. I'd forgotten about that part. If wanted to ride, I had to crank. LOL.
yes the yard is getting crowded. You can make out the David brown in one shot. Its diesel and I just sold it to a friend. The other one you can sort of see is my massey' Ferguson 1960 work bull with loader and backhoe attachment. Its gas so it will probably get the same treatment as the tea20. My grandfather taught me at 7 to push the pedals and have me drive. I think I'll wait to next year for Darcy. She's already been on a few years back and is always eager.

DB, you changed your screen name!  How come?

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on October 11, 2018, 05:28:48 PM
I was goofing around trying to figure out some stuff. I was going to change it back tomorrow.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on October 11, 2018, 05:45:34 PM
A little homage to my favorite economist, Scott Nearing?
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on October 11, 2018, 05:53:49 PM
Helen and scott Nearing "The good life" changed me. So when people ask me why I do what I do I say: "its the Nearings fault"
My own personal in joke.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on October 11, 2018, 05:58:07 PM
I have been a fan of the Nearings for more than 40 years. Not that I ever got anywhere close to walking their walk.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on October 11, 2018, 06:26:55 PM
I have been a fan of the Nearings for more than 40 years. Not that I ever got anywhere close to walking their walk.
Somewhere in one of the books he says this is "A" good life not "the" good life. I think if they had started doing this closer to today they would have adopted solar for essentials and they always had a vehicle. One of the truisms I always remember was the simple life they led gave them the economic freedom to say and do as they pleased... I wanted that and have tried to achieve that.  I discovered them in the late 1980's at a time when Reagan was everywhere, yuppies were at their prime my family had moved from the country(which I loved) to the city (believe it or not I did not love) and everything around me in the culture seemed wrong. I found a stack of mother earth news back issues in the college library, traced it back to its beginnings and wouldn't you know it the Nearings name kept coming up over and over.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on October 11, 2018, 07:14:45 PM
I was goofing around trying to figure out some stuff. I was going to change it back tomorrow.

Too Late.  I already made you a new Blog ID NearingsFault.  This time I think it took.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on October 11, 2018, 08:09:03 PM
I was goofing around trying to figure out some stuff. I was going to change it back tomorrow.

Too Late.  I already made you a new Blog ID NearingsFault.  This time I think it took.

RE
good enough. I have not received any notifications yet.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on October 11, 2018, 08:16:06 PM
I was goofing around trying to figure out some stuff. I was going to change it back tomorrow.

Too Late.  I already made you a new Blog ID NearingsFault.  This time I think it took.

RE
good enough. I have not received any notifications yet.

Ugh.  The WP software is just not behaving.  I'll give it until tomorrow  for a notification to show up before I try something new.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on October 11, 2018, 08:24:42 PM
:emthup: :emthup: :emthup:

Just frickin awesome.

VW had a few coal-burner pre-war beetles that they cobbed together before the petro was flowing in '45.

I'll see if I can scrounge up a pic or something on those rigs.

Good job amigo  :icon_mrgreen:
Here is a post from a fellow wood nut...
April 30, 1945 showing the German Embassy in Sweden flying the Swastika at half mast in recognition of Hitlers death - this was the day he shot himself. Check out the two cars to the left. the two black cars are for sure charcoal burners. The white one speeding by has a filter attachment on the front so is probably a raw wood burner as they have more complex filters and coolers then charcoal.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on October 13, 2018, 03:31:55 PM
Something new for me. bear with me as I figure out how to post the stupid thing from my blog to here... nothing new just the tractor post reformatted.
https://wp.me/Pam0dA-j (https://wp.me/Pam0dA-j)

https://wp.me/Pam0dA-j
https://wp.me/Pam0dA-j
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on October 13, 2018, 04:26:45 PM
Something new for me. bear with me as I figure out how to post the stupid thing from my blog to here... nothing new just the tractor post reformatted.
https://wp.me/Pam0dA-j (https://wp.me/Pam0dA-j)

https://wp.me/Pam0dA-j
https://wp.me/Pam0dA-j

I'm here to help if you need it!  :icon_sunny:  You're doing great so far!

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: azozeo on October 13, 2018, 04:32:48 PM
:emthup: :emthup: :emthup:

Just frickin awesome.

VW had a few coal-burner pre-war beetles that they cobbed together before the petro was flowing in '45.

I'll see if I can scrounge up a pic or something on those rigs.

Good job amigo  :icon_mrgreen:
Here is a post from a fellow wood nut...
April 30, 1945 showing the German Embassy in Sweden flying the Swastika at half mast in recognition of Hitlers death - this was the day he shot himself. Check out the two cars to the left. the two black cars are for sure charcoal burners. The white one speeding by has a filter attachment on the front so is probably a raw wood burner as they have more complex filters and coolers then charcoal.


Thanks for posting.

I just love those old round fendered vehicles from the art-deco era.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on October 13, 2018, 04:34:30 PM
Something new for me. bear with me as I figure out how to post the stupid thing from my blog to here... nothing new just the tractor post reformatted.
https://wp.me/Pam0dA-j (https://wp.me/Pam0dA-j)

https://wp.me/Pam0dA-j
https://wp.me/Pam0dA-j

I'm here to help if you need it!  :icon_sunny:  You're doing great so far!

RE
what else do I need to do?
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on October 13, 2018, 05:22:30 PM
Something new for me. bear with me as I figure out how to post the stupid thing from my blog to here... nothing new just the tractor post reformatted.
https://wp.me/Pam0dA-j (https://wp.me/Pam0dA-j)

https://wp.me/Pam0dA-j
https://wp.me/Pam0dA-j

I'm here to help if you need it!  :icon_sunny:  You're doing great so far!

RE
what else do I need to do?

Did you load it to the Diner?

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on October 13, 2018, 05:30:58 PM
Something new for me. bear with me as I figure out how to post the stupid thing from my blog to here... nothing new just the tractor post reformatted.
https://wp.me/Pam0dA-j (https://wp.me/Pam0dA-j)

https://wp.me/Pam0dA-j
https://wp.me/Pam0dA-j

I'm here to help if you need it!  :icon_sunny:  You're doing great so far!

RE
what else do I need to do?

Did you load it to the Diner?

RE
how does one "load it to the diner..."
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on October 13, 2018, 05:35:39 PM
Something new for me. bear with me as I figure out how to post the stupid thing from my blog to here... nothing new just the tractor post reformatted.
https://wp.me/Pam0dA-j (https://wp.me/Pam0dA-j)

https://wp.me/Pam0dA-j
https://wp.me/Pam0dA-j

I'm here to help if you need it!  :icon_sunny:  You're doing great so far!

RE
what else do I need to do?

Did you load it to the Diner?

RE
how does one "load it to the diner..."

Open the Diner blog and sign in, then go to the Dashboard and hit the "New Post" button.  When the dialog box opens up for a new post, go to your blog and copy it, then go back to the Diner and paste it into the dialog box and title it.  Get that far, and I'll give you the next steps.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on October 13, 2018, 06:11:11 PM
ok, so I logged in, copied and pasted in and submitted it. By copy and paste I mean old school copy and paste or is there a thingy I was supposed to use on wordpress? I previewed it and the still pictures did not copy over and the youtube links seem wrong. Where did I go wrong coach?
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on October 13, 2018, 06:29:34 PM
ok, so I logged in, copied and pasted in and submitted it. By copy and paste I mean old school copy and paste or is there a thingy I was supposed to use on wordpress? I previewed it and the still pictures did not copy over and the youtube links seem wrong. Where did I go wrong coach?

Different versions of WordPress treat Pics and Vids in different ways.  Not sure how yours works exactly.  Usually, if you copy the HTML rather than the visual, this will work, but let me go in and edit your blog and see what needs to be done to get them to appear correctly.  Sign out, because I am going to take over the editing.  Let me know when you are signed out.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on October 13, 2018, 06:41:00 PM
ok, logged out.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on October 13, 2018, 06:49:00 PM
ok, logged out.

OK, a straight copy/paste off your version of WP loses the vids.  I can fix that, but let's try something else which is EZier.  Instead of copying from your blog, copy your post from the forum and paste that in.  That works for me.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on October 13, 2018, 07:19:21 PM
ok, tried that and corrected the text to the new one, I hit preview and no vids...I'm logged out and bummed out. I need sleep.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on October 13, 2018, 07:23:32 PM
ok, tried that and corrected the text to the new one, I hit preview and no vids...I'm logged out and bummed out. I need sleep.

I think I know what the problem is.  I will explain to you after you get rest.  Nice work though today!  :icon_sunny:  Don't worry, if you can't get it set right, I will fix anyhow.  But I know you like to DIY, so if you want to keep trying we can get it right so you can do it without my help.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on October 13, 2018, 07:34:59 PM
ok, tried that and corrected the text to the new one, I hit preview and no vids...I'm logged out and bummed out. I need sleep.

I think I know what the problem is.  I will explain to you after you get rest.  Nice work though today!  :icon_sunny:  Don't worry, if you can't get it set right, I will fix anyhow.  But I know you like to DIY, so if you want to keep trying we can get it right so you can do it without my help.

RE
you are right I like puzzles.  Just let me know how I fucked up and ill clean up my mess... if I can.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on October 13, 2018, 07:39:52 PM
ok, tried that and corrected the text to the new one, I hit preview and no vids...I'm logged out and bummed out. I need sleep.

I think I know what the problem is.  I will explain to you after you get rest.  Nice work though today!  :icon_sunny:  Don't worry, if you can't get it set right, I will fix anyhow.  But I know you like to DIY, so if you want to keep trying we can get it right so you can do it without my help.

RE
you are right I like puzzles.  Just let me know how I fucked up and ill clean up my mess... if I can.

Not your fault I don't think.  Has to do with Permissions on the Diner blog.  Get some rest, that was enough for one day.  We will pick it up again tomorrow.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on October 22, 2018, 05:35:27 PM
I'm rejigging my motorized cheap grain mill. I really should get a better one. It's a victorio made to be hand cranked that I fitted with a pulley and attached to a treadmill motor. Something C5 mentioned got me thinking. I turn it at 24 volts because that is my battery bank voltage but there is no reason it could not turn at 36 volt the voltage of a modern 60 cell solar panel. It could simply speed up and slow down with the changing sun... for now the mill is out of its bin for the first time in 18 months and I ground up some storage wheat to see how it cooked up. There is nothing like storage wheat fresh bread...
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on October 22, 2018, 07:02:53 PM
Sometimes even doomers have to do something fun and selfless. As I've mentioned before I come across quite a bit of these older pieces of equipment. This little system is going to a single hardcore homesteading mom of 3 to replace her really quite scary unreliable system. 9.6 kwhr of storage a venerable dr2412 inverter and I've already installed 1kw of solar... it will keep the lights on at home and run the washing machine...
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on October 22, 2018, 07:21:53 PM
I'm rejigging my motorized cheap grain mill. I really should get a better one. It's a victorio made to be hand cranked that I fitted with a pulley and attached to a treadmill motor. Something C5 mentioned got me thinking. I turn it at 24 volts because that is my battery bank voltage but there is no reason it could not turn at 36 volt the voltage of a modern 60 cell solar panel. It could simply speed up and slow down with the changing sun... for now the mill is out of its bin for the first time in 18 months and I ground up some storage wheat to see how it cooked up. There is nothing like storage wheat fresh bread...

I need to check on my storage grains. My wife made me put them in the cellar (which is really a big crawl space on the uphill side of the 1st floor). I worry that rats might figure out a way to eat through my food-grade buckets. I don't think it's happened yet, but rats are extremely good at getting into things.

I have a hand cranked grain mill that I've never used at all.

Nice looking loaf of bread. Nothing like fresh bread just out of the oven. Heavenly. Especially if you have butter. I have some canned butter and cheese, but I never got a huge supply. Stuff's exorbitantly expensive..but I have used it, and it's good. Worth stockpiling some more.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on October 22, 2018, 07:23:43 PM
Sometimes even doomers have to do something fun and selfless. As I've mentioned before I come across quite a bit of these older pieces of equipment. This little system is going to a single hardcore homesteading mom of 3 to replace her really quite scary unreliable system. 9.6 kwhr of storage a venerable dr2412 inverter and I've already installed 1kw of solar... it will keep the lights on at home and run the washing machine...

That's an act of real kindness. You're a good man. It will come back to you a hundred fold.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on October 22, 2018, 07:33:10 PM
Sometimes even doomers have to do something fun and selfless. As I've mentioned before I come across quite a bit of these older pieces of equipment. This little system is going to a single hardcore homesteading mom of 3 to replace her really quite scary unreliable system. 9.6 kwhr of storage a venerable dr2412 inverter and I've already installed 1kw of solar... it will keep the lights on at home and run the washing machine...

That's an act of real kindness. You're a good man. It will come back to you a hundred fold.
its practice as well. I'm thinking of getting a metal container and storing some of these systems in metal barrels along with some chargers and panels. Now if I can just find an older 24 volt inverter to back up mine. We just got 3 xantrex sw5048 inverters in from a system upgrade... I'm pondering just switching to 48 volts and be done with it...and keep a spare.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on October 22, 2018, 08:44:18 PM
I'm rejigging my motorized cheap grain mill. I really should get a better one. It's a victorio made to be hand cranked that I fitted with a pulley and attached to a treadmill motor. Something C5 mentioned got me thinking. I turn it at 24 volts because that is my battery bank voltage but there is no reason it could not turn at 36 volt the voltage of a modern 60 cell solar panel. It could simply speed up and slow down with the changing sun... for now the mill is out of its bin for the first time in 18 months and I ground up some storage wheat to see how it cooked up. There is nothing like storage wheat fresh bread...

I need to check on my storage grains. My wife made me put them in the cellar (which is really a big crawl space on the uphill side of the 1st floor). I worry that rats might figure out a way to eat through my food-grade buckets. I don't think it's happened yet, but rats are extremely good at getting into things.

I have a hand cranked grain mill that I've never used at all.

Nice looking loaf of bread. Nothing like fresh bread just out of the oven. Heavenly. Especially if you have butter. I have some canned butter and cheese, but I never got a huge supply. Stuff's exorbitantly expensive..but I have used it, and it's good. Worth stockpiling some more.
I looked at that stuff. 20 dollars a can for 6oz... it better be pretty damn awesome butter. I watched some videos of canning clarified butter not sure on the longevity. I usually freeze butter. I packed all my stuff in 50 gallon steel barrels in mylar bags. No rats but raccoons, squirrels and mice are just as vicious.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Surly1 on October 23, 2018, 01:44:36 AM
Sometimes even doomers have to do something fun and selfless. As I've mentioned before I come across quite a bit of these older pieces of equipment. This little system is going to a single hardcore homesteading mom of 3 to replace her really quite scary unreliable system. 9.6 kwhr of storage a venerable dr2412 inverter and I've already installed 1kw of solar... it will keep the lights on at home and run the washing machine...

That's an act of real kindness. You're a good man. It will come back to you a hundred fold.

 :emthup: :emthup:
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world : Underground Greenhouse
Post by: Nearingsfault on November 21, 2018, 04:11:43 PM
Here is one of my personal heroes when it comes to low budget sustainable building. Very pragmatic and tireless. He lives in Slovenia and supplements with heat from his char producing boiler. Also built in a hand dug cold cellar enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/v/CF7zM80Wiho?ecver=1
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world : Underground Greenhouse
Post by: RE on November 21, 2018, 05:41:15 PM
Here is one of my personal heroes when it comes to low budget sustainable building. Very pragmatic and tireless. He lives in Slovenia and supplements with heat from his char producing boiler. Also built in a hand dug cold cellar enjoy

Underground Greenhouses are called Walipinis.

Very cool video, but he should use a tripod and a wider angle lens.  I wonder what he does for a living?  That looks like it would be a full time job to build all that and dig out the root cellar.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world : Underground Greenhouse
Post by: Nearingsfault on November 21, 2018, 06:02:44 PM
Here is one of my personal heroes when it comes to low budget sustainable building. Very pragmatic and tireless. He lives in Slovenia and supplements with heat from his char producing boiler. Also built in a hand dug cold cellar enjoy

Underground Greenhouses are called Walipinis.

Very cool video, but he should use a tripod and a wider angle lens.  I wonder what he does for a living?  That looks like it would be a full time job to build all that and dig out the root cellar.

RE
In the Permie world yes they are Walipinis. He is a chemist by trade and has a farm and a lot of hobbies... You can see why I like the guy. He contributes quite a bit on www.driveonwood.com (http://www.driveonwood.com)
Title: Fun day in the field
Post by: Nearingsfault on December 07, 2018, 05:49:52 PM
Some pretty pictures. This is our last one of the year. 4kms off anything approaching a road. 3600 watts of solar, 20kwhr of storage, 4400 watts of inverter, and a backup propane generator. It gives me hope that 23 of these went In this year in our neck of the woods plus a dozen or so battery changeouts/gear upgrades. Some are preppers some just want power in the middle of nowhere, some are collapse aware others just uncomfortable with how things are going. All of them are building a better solar world. We did not inquire as to which ism they subscribe to.
Photo 1 the last 4 kms in was by toyota fj cruiser with big honkin tires.
Photo 2 array from side
Photo3 a crisp cold sunny day; great for solar the few hours there is... Array tipped to 60 degrees to hopefully clear snow on its own.
Title: Re: Fun day in the field
Post by: RE on December 07, 2018, 06:20:47 PM
Some pretty pictures. This is our last one of the year. 4kms off anything approaching a road.

How do you get all your equipment there with no road?  4-wheelers?  Snow Machines?

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on December 07, 2018, 06:38:02 PM
nope the gear went in earlier in the year by truck. The "road" is a snow mobile trail. My job today was just to fix some little pieces, commission the system and turn it on. It went 4 weeks too late delays with the propane install hence the snow.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on December 07, 2018, 10:00:37 PM
Nice systems.  Looks cold.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on December 08, 2018, 04:36:52 AM
Nice systems.  Looks cold.
minus 14 celcius at noon. Minus 21 that morning...
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on December 08, 2018, 04:48:31 AM
Nice systems.  Looks cold.
minus 14 celcius at noon. Minus 21 that morning...

We're at -4C.  Overall mild winter up here so far.

RE
Title: Machinery for a post collapse world: Ultimate SHTF Day Electric Chainsaw System
Post by: RE on December 08, 2018, 08:15:14 AM
OK, I have come up with what I think should be an agreeable solution to going all-electric for your post-shtf day Electric Chainsaw needs.  :icon_sunny:

To start with, the chainsaw itself.  Getting the highest ratings with 4.8 out of 5 in the category of Professional quality electric chainsaws is the corded Makita 16" Electric Chain Saw (model UC4051A)

(https://cdn.makitatools.com/apps/cms/img/uc4/97067b14-3e7d-4b11-862b-2cc799db1a4e_uc4051a_p_1500px.png?height=800&trim.threshold=1)


UC4051A
16" Electric Chain Saw
Buy LocalBuy Online

    INNOVATION : “Tool-less” blade and chain adjustment /replacement by simply turning a lever
    COMFORT : Rubberized grip handles and large trigger switch for comfortable use
    CONTROL : Large metal spike bumper for added convenience
    CONVENIENCE : Oil level visible through large window for easy sight check of bar lubricant
    INCLUDES : Chain, guide bar and chain cover

UC4051A

UC4051A UC4051A UC4051A UC4051A UC4051A UC4051A UC4051A UC4051A UC4051A UC4051A

About Model

The Makita 16" Electric Chain Saw (model UC4051A) is engineered for fast cutting, efficient operation and easy maintenance, without the hassle of gas. The UC4051A has a chain speed of 2,900 FPM for efficient cutting and trimming. The motor has a built-in current limiter which is engineered to protect the motor from burnout by reducing power when the saw is overloaded, and an electric chain brake for maximum productivity. Additional features include an automatic chain oiler for heavy continuous cutting, and a large oil reservoir with view window that allows the operator to easily check the oil level. For increased comfort, the chain saw has ergonomic rubberized grip handles, and a large trigger switch with soft start for smooth start-ups.

Features

    "Tool-less" blade and chain adjustments for convenient operation and easy maintenance
    Rubberized grip handles are ergonomically designed for comfort
    Large trigger switch with soft start for smooth start-ups
    Built-in current limiter helps protect motor from burnout by reducing power to motor when saw is overloaded
    Large oil reservoir with view window allows operator to check bar oil level
    Automatic chain oiler for heavy continuous cutting
    Electric chain brake for maximum productivity
    Zero emissions and reduced maintenance
    Soft start for smooth start-ups
    Current limiter helps protect motor from damage caused by heat



Coming in now on Amazon Smile at the bargain price of $235.99.  Don't forget to designate the Sustaining Universal Needs Foundation as your charity when you buy!  :icon_sunny:

To power your saw out in the field and pull your load of chopped up trees back to your doomstead, you use an Electric Sled Tow.

(https://inhabitat.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2014/02/yvon-martel-mtt-136-all-terrain-electric-sled-2.jpg)

You can either buy one already assembled from Yvon Martel (probably pretty pricy) or DIY cannibalizing the treads off a junked snow machine  and dropping in a 5000W 48V Electric Motor to drive the thing.

(https://www.monsterscooterparts.com/media/catalog/product/4/8/48v-5000w-brushless-aircooled-motor-golden_5.jpg)

Currently $525 from Monster Scooter Parts, but they run sales all the time of 10-15% off.

For batteries, 4 large size 100AH deep cycle marine batteries  front and rear on the sled for weight and balance.  Wire in series to run the 48V motor, switch to parallel to run your inverter.

(http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l800/pict/302683936605_1.jpg)

Currently $260/ea on Amazon Smile.   Don't forget to designate the Sustaining Universal Needs Foundation as your charity when you buy!  :icon_sunny:

3000W Pure Sine Wave Inverter to run your corded power tools out in the field.

(https://powertechon.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/PS1002_1000x1000-01.jpg)

Currently $319 on Amazon Smile.   Don't forget to designate the Sustaining Universal Needs Foundation as your charity when you buy!  :icon_sunny:

You could add some Solar Panels to the top of the tractor to recharge the batts while out in the field.  Probably overkill though since you'll never cut enough wood in a day to run down 4 deep cycle 100AH batts.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on December 08, 2018, 08:39:35 AM
I like the looks of the Makita saw. I might have to get me one of those. I've had good luck with Makita tools. Been using them since the first generation of rechargeables.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on December 08, 2018, 08:45:29 AM
I like the looks of the Makita saw. I might have to get me one of those. I've had good luck with Makita tools. Been using them since the first generation of rechargeables.

Don't forget to designate the Sustaining Universal Needs Foundation as your charity when you buy!  :icon_sunny:

Bezos makes the donation, not you.  You pay the same price either way.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: cernunnos5 on December 08, 2018, 08:49:13 AM
I guess I have to second Eddie with saying I have also had good luck with Makita, though I have only had a couple and they are gone
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on December 08, 2018, 09:08:28 AM
I guess I have to second Eddie with saying I have also had good luck with Makita, though I have only had a couple and they are gone

If you already have Makita Batts, they also make a cordless 36V model which gets pretty high ratings (not as high as the corded model though).

(https://cdn.makitatools.com/apps/cms/img/hcu/38a19352-6931-4e0b-bea3-89345093296c_hcu02c1_k_1500px.png)

Nice for the convenience.

Don't forget to designate Sustaining Universal Needs Foundation as your charity when you buy on Smile.Amazon.com!  :icon_sunny:

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on December 08, 2018, 09:35:42 AM
My current generation of drills ( I think I have three) run on 18V I think. I don't have any 36V tools. Both saws look decent, but I agree with C5 that corded tools should be your primary focus, because they will ultimately be the survivors.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on December 08, 2018, 09:43:06 AM
My current generation of drills ( I think I have three) run on 18V I think. I don't have any 36V tools. Both saws look decent, but I agree with C5 that corded tools should be your primary focus, because they will ultimately be the survivors.

They have a model that takes 2 18V Makita batts instead of one 36V batt for people who are using the Makita 18V system.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/EkjZT29Bcmk/maxresdefault.jpg)

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on December 08, 2018, 11:03:12 AM
My current generation of drills ( I think I have three) run on 18V I think. I don't have any 36V tools. Both saws look decent, but I agree with C5 that corded tools should be your primary focus, because they will ultimately be the survivors.

They have a model that takes 2 18V Makita batts instead of one 36V batt for people who are using the Makita 18V system.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/EkjZT29Bcmk/maxresdefault.jpg)

Actually, looking at it more closely, that appears to be an adapter that fits in the 36V battery slot and holds 2 18V Batts.  Very good idea there from Makita.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on December 08, 2018, 11:10:26 AM
The one I actually found for sale looks different. Must be more than one model.


(https://www.chainsawsdirect.com/products-image/360/XCU03PT1_82380_1000.png)
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: cernunnos5 on December 08, 2018, 11:11:07 AM
I decided to look up some reviews in the Makita Vs Stihl category

https://www.slant.co/versus/22943/22945/~makita-uc4051a_vs_stihl-ms-150-c-e (https://www.slant.co/versus/22943/22945/~makita-uc4051a_vs_stihl-ms-150-c-e)

https://electrosawhq.com/makita-chainsaw-review/ (https://electrosawhq.com/makita-chainsaw-review/)

and for shits and giggles...I never much liked this prepper... but he does know logging

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDyjY3uiWp0. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDyjY3uiWp0.)

And for the cheaper saws 

https://bestreviews.com/best-electric-chainsaws (https://bestreviews.com/best-electric-chainsaws)
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on December 08, 2018, 11:14:30 AM
Tractor looks like mine, except I bought the LS.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on December 08, 2018, 11:21:25 AM
I decided to look up some reviews in the Makita Vs Stihl category

https://www.slant.co/versus/22943/22945/~makita-uc4051a_vs_stihl-ms-150-c-e (https://www.slant.co/versus/22943/22945/~makita-uc4051a_vs_stihl-ms-150-c-e)

Makita KILLS the Stihl on price, and you can't get the Stihl at Amazon prices.  $200 for the Makita on Amazon.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on December 08, 2018, 11:23:08 AM
The battery Makita is just under $400.

Oops. Found it for $279 at Home Despot.

Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on December 08, 2018, 11:27:33 AM
So the choice would be hard for me, since I already have at least 4 extra batteries if I can round them up. My shit gets spread out between the 3 places, and I loan stuff out to my kids, which is not advisable, but whaddya do?
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on December 08, 2018, 11:31:26 AM
If I buy a gas saw, though, it'll be a bigger saw. I'm looking at this one. Maybe buy it at Tractor Supply and pony up for an extended warranty if they have one. I tend to be hard on chainsaws, it seems like.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/husqvarna-460-rancher-603cc-gas-24-in-chainsaw?cm_vc=-10005 (https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/husqvarna-460-rancher-603cc-gas-24-in-chainsaw?cm_vc=-10005)

(https://media.tractorsupply.com/is/image/TractorSupplyCompany/1294069?$456$)
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on December 08, 2018, 11:31:51 AM
So the choice would be hard for me, since I already have at least 4 extra batteries if I can round them up. My shit gets spread out between the 3 places, and I loan stuff out to my kids, which is not advisable, but whaddya do?

Give them batts as Christmas Gifts?

Remember to designate Sustaining Universal Needs Foundation as your Charity when you buy online from Smile.Amazon.com!

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on December 08, 2018, 11:45:05 AM
The battery Makita is just under $400.

Oops. Found it for $279 at Home Despot.

The more expensive price is for a package deal that includes 2 18V Batts and the adapter.  The cheaper price is tool-only.

The Stihl-Makita comparison is for the corded models only.  Stihl doesn't make a cordless unit as of yet that I can find.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on December 08, 2018, 11:50:09 AM
The battery Makita is just under $400.

Oops. Found it for $279 at Home Despot.

The more expensive price is for a package deal that includes 2 18V Batts and the adapter.  The cheaper price is tool-only.

The Stihl-Makita comparison is for the corded models only.  Stihl doesn't make a cordless unit as of yet that I can find.

RE

I found a GREAT package deal on Makita from Toolnut for $319!  Includes a grinder and a charger too!

(https://pull3-thetoolnut.netdna-ssl.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1200x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/m/a/makita-xcu02ptx1-1.jpg)

https://www.toolnut.com/makita-xcu02ptx1-18v-x2-36v-lxt-cordless-12-chain-saw-kit-5-0ah-and-brushless-angle-grinder.html?utm_source=google_shopping&gclid=CjwKCAiA9K3gBRA4EiwACEhFe3aBxhhB9a_1GVKf_yE61HW8SzqaF_59wFS9PzSg0WPEZbN263F_uBoCd4AQAvD_BwE (https://www.toolnut.com/makita-xcu02ptx1-18v-x2-36v-lxt-cordless-12-chain-saw-kit-5-0ah-and-brushless-angle-grinder.html?utm_source=google_shopping&gclid=CjwKCAiA9K3gBRA4EiwACEhFe3aBxhhB9a_1GVKf_yE61HW8SzqaF_59wFS9PzSg0WPEZbN263F_uBoCd4AQAvD_BwE)

You can't beat that price!  I may even buy that one!

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: cernunnos5 on December 08, 2018, 12:07:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6MlHxAzLXA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6MlHxAzLXA)

I cant help myself. I had to share. I just started my partII in the C5 gets wood, series. Its called...

C5 Gets Apocalyptic Wood From Faggots.

I'm Looking forward to seeing that title as the header at the Doomstead Diner

In it, we will bypass all this chainsaw talk. I am hoping to order a billhook in the next few days. They are all pricey and rare though. This is the only cheap version I have found
https://www.machetespecialists.com/product/imacasa-10-inch-coa-machete-blade/ (https://www.machetespecialists.com/product/imacasa-10-inch-coa-machete-blade/)

Here is a teaser of some of what I will be writing about 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LizqU8OOVh0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LizqU8OOVh0)
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on December 08, 2018, 12:13:37 PM
HERE is your post-SHTF collapse vehicle for your doomstead!

(http://atvillustrated.com/files/styles/large/public/vendor.2013.mattracks.litefoot.on-utv.on-snow.jpg)(http://atvillustrated.com/files/styles/medium/public/vendor.2013.mattracks.litefoot.on-atv.over-rocks.jpg)

Go Anywhere. Anytime
Written By:
John Arens

vendor.2013.mattracks.litefoot.on-utv.on-snow.jpgThere are tires for sand, snow, mud, and every other type of riding condition, but when the snow gets too deep or the bog too soft, nothing can get you through a tough spot like a good set of tracks.  MATTRACKS has been building tracks for everything from tractors to ATVs since 1994 and we’ve tried their track systems on rough, rocky terrain, across a muddy swamp, up hills that would give our relatives cause to worry, and of course, on snow.  Their unique, shape changing suspension lets them crawl over uneven or rocky terrain like nothing else, and recently they’ve updated their lineup to cover even more models.   
Mattracks Manufacturing Excellence

The company that has put tracks on every continent began as a drawing and a dream by an 11 year old boy who asked his father if he could build it.  The simple rubber track conversion system quickly found acceptance with consumers, and today the company operates from a 160,000 square foot facility in the town of Karlstad, Minnesota.  Everything from engineering to manufacturing is contained in-house, and Mattracks is one of the only vehicle track producers in the world that operates their own rubber molding line.  They also have a full machining department, assembly lines, and they control the entire manufacturing process so well they even design their own tools and production machinery.  What it means is excellent quality control from start to finish.vendor.2013.mattracks.litefoot.on-atv.camo.on-snow.jpg
The Lifefoot Line

Mattracks calls their ATV and Side x Side track systems the LiteFoot Line.  The LiteFoot track system is designed to increase floatation on soft ground or snow while decreasing compaction, and one feature that works extremely well for crawling over uneven or rocky terrain is the shape changing suspension which Mattracks calls SCS. 

The LiteFoot SCS track frame is equipped with a variable rate, pivoting four-link suspension.  It allows you to adjust your track length, approach angle, and down pressure by turning an adjustment bolt.  By changing the leading approach angle of the track, you can dial it in for a flatter footprint and better flotation in snow or mud, or for better climbing over rocks or logs.  The LiteFoot system is also available with three different tread patterns with the following unique features:

M3 - The "Extra Heavy Duty" version of the utility rated M3 track system.  Rated to handle the weight and torque of even the heaviest Side x Sides, the M3 features the most aggressive tread for high flotation and traction in soft terrain.

    Heavy Duty 4 link, quad spring internal suspension
    13" wide track
    3/4" paddle style
    4200 G.V.W.R. [1905 kg]

XL - Designed exclusively for ATVs.  The LiteFoot XL is the economical alternative to Mattracks’ best riding track system. The LiteFoot XL tracks retain Mattracks’ superior quality, legendary performance and great features.

    11" wide track
    1" tread lug
    1500 G.V.W.R. [680 kg]

XT - The "Extra Heavy Duty" version of the utility rated XT track system is built for Side x Sides but offers a less aggressive tread pattern and great traction on most terrain.  Shorter lugs with wide surface area also allow for easier ride on hard terrain.

    Heavy Duty 4 link, quad spring internal suspension
    11" wide track
    1" versatile all-terrain treads
    4200 G.V.W.R. [1905 kg]

MATTRACKS realized that some trailers need tracks too and the Trail-R-Mate XT is designed to let the trailer float across any terrain as easily as the tow vehicle.  vendor.2013.mattracks.litefoot.on-side-x-side.on-snow.jpg

    11" wide track
    Tread lug choices
    1200 G.V.W.R. [545 kg]

The one piece tracks have internal belting, composite reinforcement, and are made from a specially formulated rubber compound designed to operate over many types of terrain.  Track systems designed for Side x Sides are rated for the higher overall vehicle weight as well.
Installation

Installing the LiteFoot track system is not unlike changing the tires, although it will take you a little longer.  Each track drives off the ATV or Side x Side wheel hub, but there are a few brackets you will need to install to keep the tracks from going around like a wheel.  Each set comes preassembled, and about all you need to do is jack up your ATV or Side x Side and start bolting it on.  If you would rather just pick it up and drive into the woods, your local dealer will be glad to install them for you.  MATTRACKS did make another major engineering breakthrough this year with the creation of their Sprositive Drive system for ATVs and Side x Sides.   
Spositive Drive

Because of the front differentials on ATVs and UTVs, the front wheels sometimes turn at different rates which can affect traction and handling.  To compensate for this, the Sprositive Drive System has been specially designed to eliminate the gear-like backlash.  By eliminating the slack in the front sprockets pitch and changing the pitch ratio in the rear, the Sprositive Drive allows the machine to stay locked in 4WD and helps keep all tracks pulling at the same speed. The Sprositive Drive options are available for Polaris, John Deere, Club Car, Bobcat, Case IH, New Holland and?Cub Cadet UTVs and even some Polaris ATVs. vendor.2013.mattracks.litefoot.on-atv.over-rocks.jpg
All Terran Tested

Everybody likes the looks of an ATV or Side x Side with the LiteFoot system installed.  It’s like having your own personal tank or ‘dozer and the vehicle sits much higher; you get MUCH more ground clearance.  It’s manly!  Width is also greatly increased as well, but because of the wider and longer footprint, it feels very stable.  We tried the kit on several different machines in mud, on snow, up very steep hills, across boulders, and on sand. 

The first riding area we tried was deep in Minnesota mining territory with trails that would up, down, and around HUGE piles of iron ore mine tailings.  We hopped aboard the Yamaha Grizzly and quickly found the tracks don’t take much power to turn, but they effectively change the gear ratio since the drive “wheels” on each track are a different size than the ATV tire.  That means a little less top speed, and you operate a little higher in the RPM range.  Mattracks recommends you don’t install the kit on ATVs under 400cc though.  The biggest difference between the wheels and the track system is found in steering.  The tracks can’t turn as far as a tire can, and winding through very tight trees is not going to happen.  Instead you’ll use reverse and make a few 3 point turns, and it will take a little more arm muscle.  One Grizzly was equipped with Electronic Power Steering and the required steering effort was about the same as with mud tires.  Where the tracks really shine, however, is where regular tires can never go.  vendor.2013.mattracks.litefoot.on-atv.on-snow.jpg

It was both fun and amazing how much mud and water could be crossed with the LiteFoot track system.  Time after time, you could dive into the muddy water and crawl out the other side, both on the Yamaha Grizzly, and on the Arctic Cat Prowler.  There seemed to be no limit to how much water we could cross, even with the tracks fully submerged.   

We next moved to a boulder field.  Here we picked our line carefully and crawled over enormous rocks with ease.  The shape changing suspension (SCS) works well and allows the track to follow the uneven surfaces, although you want to make sure the leading edge of your tracks climb up and over rocks rather than trying to dig under.  The LiteFoot kits can handle rock crawling when needed, but they absolutely excel where traction is limited.

We found our way to the base of enormous and very steep hill climbs of the sort that worry your loved ones.  We consider any climb that gets well past the tree tops carefully, and this one was too steep to walk on and covered in loose mine tailings.  Seemingly unconcerned and with his medical coverage no doubt fully paid up, one intrepid Mattracks rep pointed his Grizzly at the heavens and stabbed at the throttle.  The LiteFoot kit clawed at the slope like a badger on meth, but the Grizzly continued to climb.  At only 40’ from the top, the rider stopped just to show us what the kit could do.  He gave us a wave, then from a dead stop he again pegged the throttle and easily crested the top.  We were impressed!

Later in the year, we were also able to test the LiteFoot kit on another Grizzly and a Yamaha Rhino in snow.  Again we were impressed with how it crossed deep snow a wheeled machine would never manage.  Rather than cutting through the snow, the tracks easily climbed up on it.  It was fun to slide the kit across bare ice and to ride the rolling drifts.   

One thing that’s very important to farmers and anyone with sensitive or wet terrain is ground pressure.  Because each track has a total ground contact surface area many times greater than any tire, ground pressure will be negligible.  Your foot will transfer more ground pressure than the LiteFoot kit will. 
Go Anywhere with Litefoot

The LiteFoot tracks provide great traction, stability, high flotation and you’ll still be moving long after a traditional set of tires has become hopelessly bogged down.  If your duck blind, work site, or cabin is far off the road and inaccessible at times, Mattracks can get you there when nobody else can. 

www.LiteFootatv.comwww.mattracks.com (http://www.LiteFootatv.comwww.mattracks.com)


You buy these treads as a kit and you change them out on your ATV just like changing your tires.  Hook them on the electric Polaris Ranger, and you are good to go all seasons over any terrain!  You'll have to call for pricing.  No doubt expensive as all hell.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on December 08, 2018, 12:16:06 PM

I cant help myself. I had to share. I just started my partII in the C5 gets wood, series. Its called...

C5 Gets Apocalyptic Wood From Faggots.

I'll have to read it first before I drop on that title.  I'll re-title it if I don't like it.  ;D

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on December 08, 2018, 12:37:28 PM
We can't possibly use that title because it's way too politically incorrect. It's discriminates against butt pirates.

http://www.youtube.com/v/_7XW05a8C8E&app=desktop&fs=1
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on December 08, 2018, 12:42:28 PM
HERE is your post-SHTF collapse vehicle for your doomstead!

(http://atvillustrated.com/files/styles/large/public/vendor.2013.mattracks.litefoot.on-utv.on-snow.jpg)(http://atvillustrated.com/files/styles/medium/public/vendor.2013.mattracks.litefoot.on-atv.over-rocks.jpg)

Go Anywhere. Anytime
Written By:
John Arens



vendor.2013.mattracks.litefoot.on-utv.on-snow.jpgThere are tires for sand, snow, mud, and every other type of riding condition, but when the snow gets too deep or the bog too soft, nothing can get you through a tough spot like a good set of tracks.  MATTRACKS has been building tracks for everything from tractors to ATVs since 1994 and we’ve tried their track systems on rough, rocky terrain, across a muddy swamp, up hills that would give our relatives cause to worry, and of course, on snow.  Their unique, shape changing suspension lets them crawl over uneven or rocky terrain like nothing else, and recently they’ve updated their lineup to cover even more models.   
Mattracks Manufacturing Excellence

The company that has put tracks on every continent began as a drawing and a dream by an 11 year old boy who asked his father if he could build it.  The simple rubber track conversion system quickly found acceptance with consumers, and today the company operates from a 160,000 square foot facility in the town of Karlstad, Minnesota.  Everything from engineering to manufacturing is contained in-house, and Mattracks is one of the only vehicle track producers in the world that operates their own rubber molding line.  They also have a full machining department, assembly lines, and they control the entire manufacturing process so well they even design their own tools and production machinery.  What it means is excellent quality control from start to finish.vendor.2013.mattracks.litefoot.on-atv.camo.on-snow.jpg
The Lifefoot Line

Mattracks calls their ATV and Side x Side track systems the LiteFoot Line.  The LiteFoot track system is designed to increase floatation on soft ground or snow while decreasing compaction, and one feature that works extremely well for crawling over uneven or rocky terrain is the shape changing suspension which Mattracks calls SCS. 

The LiteFoot SCS track frame is equipped with a variable rate, pivoting four-link suspension.  It allows you to adjust your track length, approach angle, and down pressure by turning an adjustment bolt.  By changing the leading approach angle of the track, you can dial it in for a flatter footprint and better flotation in snow or mud, or for better climbing over rocks or logs.  The LiteFoot system is also available with three different tread patterns with the following unique features:

M3 - The "Extra Heavy Duty" version of the utility rated M3 track system.  Rated to handle the weight and torque of even the heaviest Side x Sides, the M3 features the most aggressive tread for high flotation and traction in soft terrain.

    Heavy Duty 4 link, quad spring internal suspension
    13" wide track
    3/4" paddle style
    4200 G.V.W.R. [1905 kg]

XL - Designed exclusively for ATVs.  The LiteFoot XL is the economical alternative to Mattracks’ best riding track system. The LiteFoot XL tracks retain Mattracks’ superior quality, legendary performance and great features.

    11" wide track
    1" tread lug
    1500 G.V.W.R. [680 kg]

XT - The "Extra Heavy Duty" version of the utility rated XT track system is built for Side x Sides but offers a less aggressive tread pattern and great traction on most terrain.  Shorter lugs with wide surface area also allow for easier ride on hard terrain.

    Heavy Duty 4 link, quad spring internal suspension
    11" wide track
    1" versatile all-terrain treads
    4200 G.V.W.R. [1905 kg]

MATTRACKS realized that some trailers need tracks too and the Trail-R-Mate XT is designed to let the trailer float across any terrain as easily as the tow vehicle.  vendor.2013.mattracks.litefoot.on-side-x-side.on-snow.jpg

    11" wide track
    Tread lug choices
    1200 G.V.W.R. [545 kg]

The one piece tracks have internal belting, composite reinforcement, and are made from a specially formulated rubber compound designed to operate over many types of terrain.  Track systems designed for Side x Sides are rated for the higher overall vehicle weight as well.
Installation

Installing the LiteFoot track system is not unlike changing the tires, although it will take you a little longer.  Each track drives off the ATV or Side x Side wheel hub, but there are a few brackets you will need to install to keep the tracks from going around like a wheel.  Each set comes preassembled, and about all you need to do is jack up your ATV or Side x Side and start bolting it on.  If you would rather just pick it up and drive into the woods, your local dealer will be glad to install them for you.  MATTRACKS did make another major engineering breakthrough this year with the creation of their Sprositive Drive system for ATVs and Side x Sides.   
Spositive Drive

Because of the front differentials on ATVs and UTVs, the front wheels sometimes turn at different rates which can affect traction and handling.  To compensate for this, the Sprositive Drive System has been specially designed to eliminate the gear-like backlash.  By eliminating the slack in the front sprockets pitch and changing the pitch ratio in the rear, the Sprositive Drive allows the machine to stay locked in 4WD and helps keep all tracks pulling at the same speed. The Sprositive Drive options are available for Polaris, John Deere, Club Car, Bobcat, Case IH, New Holland and?Cub Cadet UTVs and even some Polaris ATVs. vendor.2013.mattracks.litefoot.on-atv.over-rocks.jpg
All Terran Tested

Everybody likes the looks of an ATV or Side x Side with the LiteFoot system installed.  It’s like having your own personal tank or ‘dozer and the vehicle sits much higher; you get MUCH more ground clearance.  It’s manly!  Width is also greatly increased as well, but because of the wider and longer footprint, it feels very stable.  We tried the kit on several different machines in mud, on snow, up very steep hills, across boulders, and on sand. 

The first riding area we tried was deep in Minnesota mining territory with trails that would up, down, and around HUGE piles of iron ore mine tailings.  We hopped aboard the Yamaha Grizzly and quickly found the tracks don’t take much power to turn, but they effectively change the gear ratio since the drive “wheels” on each track are a different size than the ATV tire.  That means a little less top speed, and you operate a little higher in the RPM range.  Mattracks recommends you don’t install the kit on ATVs under 400cc though.  The biggest difference between the wheels and the track system is found in steering.  The tracks can’t turn as far as a tire can, and winding through very tight trees is not going to happen.  Instead you’ll use reverse and make a few 3 point turns, and it will take a little more arm muscle.  One Grizzly was equipped with Electronic Power Steering and the required steering effort was about the same as with mud tires.  Where the tracks really shine, however, is where regular tires can never go.  vendor.2013.mattracks.litefoot.on-atv.on-snow.jpg

It was both fun and amazing how much mud and water could be crossed with the LiteFoot track system.  Time after time, you could dive into the muddy water and crawl out the other side, both on the Yamaha Grizzly, and on the Arctic Cat Prowler.  There seemed to be no limit to how much water we could cross, even with the tracks fully submerged.   

We next moved to a boulder field.  Here we picked our line carefully and crawled over enormous rocks with ease.  The shape changing suspension (SCS) works well and allows the track to follow the uneven surfaces, although you want to make sure the leading edge of your tracks climb up and over rocks rather than trying to dig under.  The LiteFoot kits can handle rock crawling when needed, but they absolutely excel where traction is limited.

We found our way to the base of enormous and very steep hill climbs of the sort that worry your loved ones.  We consider any climb that gets well past the tree tops carefully, and this one was too steep to walk on and covered in loose mine tailings.  Seemingly unconcerned and with his medical coverage no doubt fully paid up, one intrepid Mattracks rep pointed his Grizzly at the heavens and stabbed at the throttle.  The LiteFoot kit clawed at the slope like a badger on meth, but the Grizzly continued to climb.  At only 40’ from the top, the rider stopped just to show us what the kit could do.  He gave us a wave, then from a dead stop he again pegged the throttle and easily crested the top.  We were impressed!

Later in the year, we were also able to test the LiteFoot kit on another Grizzly and a Yamaha Rhino in snow.  Again we were impressed with how it crossed deep snow a wheeled machine would never manage.  Rather than cutting through the snow, the tracks easily climbed up on it.  It was fun to slide the kit across bare ice and to ride the rolling drifts.   

One thing that’s very important to farmers and anyone with sensitive or wet terrain is ground pressure.  Because each track has a total ground contact surface area many times greater than any tire, ground pressure will be negligible.  Your foot will transfer more ground pressure than the LiteFoot kit will. 
Go Anywhere with Litefoot

The LiteFoot tracks provide great traction, stability, high flotation and you’ll still be moving long after a traditional set of tires has become hopelessly bogged down.  If your duck blind, work site, or cabin is far off the road and inaccessible at times, Mattracks can get you there when nobody else can. 

www.LiteFootatv.comwww.mattracks.com (http://www.LiteFootatv.comwww.mattracks.com)


You buy these treads as a kit and you change them out on your ATV just like changing your tires.  Hook them on the electric Polaris Ranger, and you are good to go all seasons over any terrain!  You'll have to call for pricing.  No doubt expensive as all hell.

RE

RE is such a closet techno-cornucopian. Quit looking at all that shiny stuff. You know how you get.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on December 08, 2018, 12:52:00 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6MlHxAzLXA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6MlHxAzLXA)

I cant help myself. I had to share. I just started my partII in the C5 gets wood, series. Its called...

C5 Gets Apocalyptic Wood From Faggots.

I'm Looking forward to seeing that title as the header at the Doomstead Diner

In it, we will bypass all this chainsaw talk. I am hoping to order a billhook in the next few days. They are all pricey and rare though. This is the only cheap version I have found
https://www.machetespecialists.com/product/imacasa-10-inch-coa-machete-blade/ (https://www.machetespecialists.com/product/imacasa-10-inch-coa-machete-blade/)

Here is a teaser of some of what I will be writing about 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LizqU8OOVh0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LizqU8OOVh0)

I'm guessing you saw these already. They look like they're better, perhaps. Still within reason.

https://www.ebay.com/i/183530024518?chn=ps (https://www.ebay.com/i/183530024518?chn=ps)
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on December 08, 2018, 12:58:40 PM
I carry a couple of cheap machetes with me when I'm cutting brush.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on December 08, 2018, 01:17:31 PM
In it, we will bypass all this chainsaw talk. I am hoping to order a billhook in the next few days. They are all pricey and rare though. This is the only cheap version I have found
https://www.machetespecialists.com/product/imacasa-10-inch-coa-machete-blade/ (https://www.machetespecialists.com/product/imacasa-10-inch-coa-machete-blade/)

Not so rare or pricey, I found dozens of models in various sizes at various prices, that actually have the handles already on them.  Here' a 12" model:

(https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/d042ae60-39a0-402d-8c8a-fc244dc9074e_1.0e3f6ee6569703ffd8093f68fdaaff8e.jpeg?odnHeight=450&odnWidth=450&odnBg=FFFFFF)

Here's an 18" model

(https://sc02.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1LeQzJVXXXXanXFXXq6xXFXXXN/Serpe-Italian-Bill-Hook-Machete-BH102.jpg_350x350.jpg)

Send me your address in a PM.  I'll have one shipped to you as a Christmas present. 🎅

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on December 08, 2018, 01:22:04 PM
RE is such a closet techno-cornucopian. Quit looking at all that shiny stuff. You know how you get.

No more so than you with your EV Carz, Solar Panels, Tractor, Husqvarna Gas powered chainsaws...  ::)

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: cernunnos5 on December 08, 2018, 01:28:29 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6MlHxAzLXA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6MlHxAzLXA)

I cant help myself. I had to share. I just started my partII in the C5 gets wood, series. Its called...

C5 Gets Apocalyptic Wood From Faggots.

I'm Looking forward to seeing that title as the header at the Doomstead Diner

In it, we will bypass all this chainsaw talk. I am hoping to order a billhook in the next few days. They are all pricey and rare though. This is the only cheap version I have found
https://www.machetespecialists.com/product/imacasa-10-inch-coa-machete-blade/ (https://www.machetespecialists.com/product/imacasa-10-inch-coa-machete-blade/)



Here is a teaser of some of what I will be writing about 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LizqU8OOVh0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LizqU8OOVh0)

I'm guessing you saw these already. They look like they're better, perhaps. Still within reason.

https://www.ebay.com/i/183530024518?chn=ps (https://www.ebay.com/i/183530024518?chn=ps)
I actually already have one of those.

I need something that works better in tight  brush (I recently did a 40 ft test plot of hedge laying to get a feel for the work load)

For anyone that does not know, a faggot is a bundle of sticks. Brits would know what faggot wood is.

Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on December 08, 2018, 01:37:37 PM
I found a nice one from Fiskars.  11" blade, high carbon steel.

(https://clutchaxes.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/fiskars-brush-axe-e1526912091636.jpg)

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on December 08, 2018, 05:12:07 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6MlHxAzLXA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6MlHxAzLXA)

I cant help myself. I had to share. I just started my partII in the C5 gets wood, series. Its called...

C5 Gets Apocalyptic Wood From Faggots.

I'm Looking forward to seeing that title as the header at the Doomstead Diner

In it, we will bypass all this chainsaw talk. I am hoping to order a billhook in the next few days. They are all pricey and rare though. This is the only cheap version I have found
https://www.machetespecialists.com/product/imacasa-10-inch-coa-machete-blade/ (https://www.machetespecialists.com/product/imacasa-10-inch-coa-machete-blade/)



Here is a teaser of some of what I will be writing about 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LizqU8OOVh0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LizqU8OOVh0)

I'm guessing you saw these already. They look like they're better, perhaps. Still within reason.

https://www.ebay.com/i/183530024518?chn=ps (https://www.ebay.com/i/183530024518?chn=ps)
I actually already have one of those.

I need something that works better in tight  brush (I recently did a 40 ft test plot of hedge laying to get a feel for the work load)

For anyone that does not know, a faggot is a bundle of sticks. Brits would know what faggot wood is.

I was just kidding about the whole faggot reference. I think it's funny, and not liable to trigger any Diners. I'm not remotely anti-gay, btw.

God save the queens.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on December 08, 2018, 05:33:34 PM
I found a nice one from Fiskars.  11" blade, high carbon steel.

(https://clutchaxes.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/fiskars-brush-axe-e1526912091636.jpg)

RE

I think C5 wants a long handled one. A bit harder to come by.  At least it's something a blacksmith can make pretty easily. Much easier to forge than a chainsaw.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on December 08, 2018, 05:36:39 PM

I think C5 wants a long handled one. A bit harder to come by.  At least it's something a blacksmith can make pretty easily. Much easier to forge than a chainsaw.

I thought he wanted a more portable one to maneuver in tighter spaces?  There are long handle models available also though.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on December 08, 2018, 05:40:53 PM

I think C5 wants a long handled one. A bit harder to come by.  At least it's something a blacksmith can make pretty easily. Much easier to forge than a chainsaw.

I thought he wanted a more portable one to maneuver in tighter spaces?  There are long handle models available also though.

RE

Here's a 14" model with a 36" handle.

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1196/1452/products/1436_1024x1024.jpg?v=1462285644)

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: cernunnos5 on December 08, 2018, 08:22:51 PM
In it, we will bypass all this chainsaw talk. I am hoping to order a billhook in the next few days. They are all pricey and rare though. This is the only cheap version I have found
https://www.machetespecialists.com/product/imacasa-10-inch-coa-machete-blade/ (https://www.machetespecialists.com/product/imacasa-10-inch-coa-machete-blade/)

Not so rare or pricey, I found dozens of models in various sizes at various prices, that actually have the handles already on them.  Here' a 12" model:

(https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/d042ae60-39a0-402d-8c8a-fc244dc9074e_1.0e3f6ee6569703ffd8093f68fdaaff8e.jpeg?odnHeight=450&odnWidth=450&odnBg=FFFFFF)

Here's an 18" model

(https://sc02.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1LeQzJVXXXXanXFXXq6xXFXXXN/Serpe-Italian-Bill-Hook-Machete-BH102.jpg_350x350.jpg)

Send me your address in a PM.  I'll have one shipped to you as a Christmas present. 🎅

RE
Thanks for thinking of me Big Guy. I'm honored. But I cant in good conscience do this to you. Like me, you would get screwed by the shipping. Its a canada issue. Stuff from the states only gets shipped to us Priority Post. You know that cheap one showed you. 15$... they wanted to charge 40$ shipping... plus there is an import duty. One of those you showed doesnt even ship to canada.

We do have the Fiskars here but it is too light and I dont trust the plastic handle. (Fiscars PowerGear loppers are awsome though. I highly recomend. The PowerGear really takes the force off the tool. I've desrtoyed several loppers but that one has held up)

It looks like I will end up getting this one localy http://www.leevalley.com/en/garden/page.aspx?p=10416&cat=2,42706,40718&ap=1 (http://www.leevalley.com/en/garden/page.aspx?p=10416&cat=2,42706,40718&ap=1) I have picked it up before and it seems a bit light for my striength. I think the extra inch on the one you showed would make all the difference.

There is a "That's what she said" joke in there.

In the end, its just for experimenting with.

It seems there is also an experimenting with faggots joke in there as well.... but I'm getting nothing.... ::)
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on December 08, 2018, 10:03:59 PM
HERE is your post-SHTF collapse vehicle for your doomstead!

(http://atvillustrated.com/files/styles/large/public/vendor.2013.mattracks.litefoot.on-utv.on-snow.jpg)(http://atvillustrated.com/files/styles/medium/public/vendor.2013.mattracks.litefoot.on-atv.over-rocks.jpg)

Go Anywhere. Anytime
Written By:
John Arens



vendor.2013.mattracks.litefoot.on-utv.on-snow.jpgThere are tires for sand, snow, mud, and every other type of riding condition, but when the snow gets too deep or the bog too soft, nothing can get you through a tough spot like a good set of tracks.  MATTRACKS has been building tracks for everything from tractors to ATVs since 1994 and we’ve tried their track systems on rough, rocky terrain, across a muddy swamp, up hills that would give our relatives cause to worry, and of course, on snow.  Their unique, shape changing suspension lets them crawl over uneven or rocky terrain like nothing else, and recently they’ve updated their lineup to cover even more models.   
Mattracks Manufacturing Excellence

The company that has put tracks on every continent began as a drawing and a dream by an 11 year old boy who asked his father if he could build it.  The simple rubber track conversion system quickly found acceptance with consumers, and today the company operates from a 160,000 square foot facility in the town of Karlstad, Minnesota.  Everything from engineering to manufacturing is contained in-house, and Mattracks is one of the only vehicle track producers in the world that operates their own rubber molding line.  They also have a full machining department, assembly lines, and they control the entire manufacturing process so well they even design their own tools and production machinery.  What it means is excellent quality control from start to finish.vendor.2013.mattracks.litefoot.on-atv.camo.on-snow.jpg
The Lifefoot Line

Mattracks calls their ATV and Side x Side track systems the LiteFoot Line.  The LiteFoot track system is designed to increase floatation on soft ground or snow while decreasing compaction, and one feature that works extremely well for crawling over uneven or rocky terrain is the shape changing suspension which Mattracks calls SCS. 

The LiteFoot SCS track frame is equipped with a variable rate, pivoting four-link suspension.  It allows you to adjust your track length, approach angle, and down pressure by turning an adjustment bolt.  By changing the leading approach angle of the track, you can dial it in for a flatter footprint and better flotation in snow or mud, or for better climbing over rocks or logs.  The LiteFoot system is also available with three different tread patterns with the following unique features:

M3 - The "Extra Heavy Duty" version of the utility rated M3 track system.  Rated to handle the weight and torque of even the heaviest Side x Sides, the M3 features the most aggressive tread for high flotation and traction in soft terrain.

    Heavy Duty 4 link, quad spring internal suspension
    13" wide track
    3/4" paddle style
    4200 G.V.W.R. [1905 kg]

XL - Designed exclusively for ATVs.  The LiteFoot XL is the economical alternative to Mattracks’ best riding track system. The LiteFoot XL tracks retain Mattracks’ superior quality, legendary performance and great features.

    11" wide track
    1" tread lug
    1500 G.V.W.R. [680 kg]

XT - The "Extra Heavy Duty" version of the utility rated XT track system is built for Side x Sides but offers a less aggressive tread pattern and great traction on most terrain.  Shorter lugs with wide surface area also allow for easier ride on hard terrain.

    Heavy Duty 4 link, quad spring internal suspension
    11" wide track
    1" versatile all-terrain treads
    4200 G.V.W.R. [1905 kg]

MATTRACKS realized that some trailers need tracks too and the Trail-R-Mate XT is designed to let the trailer float across any terrain as easily as the tow vehicle.  vendor.2013.mattracks.litefoot.on-side-x-side.on-snow.jpg

    11" wide track
    Tread lug choices
    1200 G.V.W.R. [545 kg]

The one piece tracks have internal belting, composite reinforcement, and are made from a specially formulated rubber compound designed to operate over many types of terrain.  Track systems designed for Side x Sides are rated for the higher overall vehicle weight as well.
Installation

Installing the LiteFoot track system is not unlike changing the tires, although it will take you a little longer.  Each track drives off the ATV or Side x Side wheel hub, but there are a few brackets you will need to install to keep the tracks from going around like a wheel.  Each set comes preassembled, and about all you need to do is jack up your ATV or Side x Side and start bolting it on.  If you would rather just pick it up and drive into the woods, your local dealer will be glad to install them for you.  MATTRACKS did make another major engineering breakthrough this year with the creation of their Sprositive Drive system for ATVs and Side x Sides.   
Spositive Drive

Because of the front differentials on ATVs and UTVs, the front wheels sometimes turn at different rates which can affect traction and handling.  To compensate for this, the Sprositive Drive System has been specially designed to eliminate the gear-like backlash.  By eliminating the slack in the front sprockets pitch and changing the pitch ratio in the rear, the Sprositive Drive allows the machine to stay locked in 4WD and helps keep all tracks pulling at the same speed. The Sprositive Drive options are available for Polaris, John Deere, Club Car, Bobcat, Case IH, New Holland and?Cub Cadet UTVs and even some Polaris ATVs. vendor.2013.mattracks.litefoot.on-atv.over-rocks.jpg
All Terran Tested

Everybody likes the looks of an ATV or Side x Side with the LiteFoot system installed.  It’s like having your own personal tank or ‘dozer and the vehicle sits much higher; you get MUCH more ground clearance.  It’s manly!  Width is also greatly increased as well, but because of the wider and longer footprint, it feels very stable.  We tried the kit on several different machines in mud, on snow, up very steep hills, across boulders, and on sand. 

The first riding area we tried was deep in Minnesota mining territory with trails that would up, down, and around HUGE piles of iron ore mine tailings.  We hopped aboard the Yamaha Grizzly and quickly found the tracks don’t take much power to turn, but they effectively change the gear ratio since the drive “wheels” on each track are a different size than the ATV tire.  That means a little less top speed, and you operate a little higher in the RPM range.  Mattracks recommends you don’t install the kit on ATVs under 400cc though.  The biggest difference between the wheels and the track system is found in steering.  The tracks can’t turn as far as a tire can, and winding through very tight trees is not going to happen.  Instead you’ll use reverse and make a few 3 point turns, and it will take a little more arm muscle.  One Grizzly was equipped with Electronic Power Steering and the required steering effort was about the same as with mud tires.  Where the tracks really shine, however, is where regular tires can never go.  vendor.2013.mattracks.litefoot.on-atv.on-snow.jpg

It was both fun and amazing how much mud and water could be crossed with the LiteFoot track system.  Time after time, you could dive into the muddy water and crawl out the other side, both on the Yamaha Grizzly, and on the Arctic Cat Prowler.  There seemed to be no limit to how much water we could cross, even with the tracks fully submerged.   

We next moved to a boulder field.  Here we picked our line carefully and crawled over enormous rocks with ease.  The shape changing suspension (SCS) works well and allows the track to follow the uneven surfaces, although you want to make sure the leading edge of your tracks climb up and over rocks rather than trying to dig under.  The LiteFoot kits can handle rock crawling when needed, but they absolutely excel where traction is limited.

We found our way to the base of enormous and very steep hill climbs of the sort that worry your loved ones.  We consider any climb that gets well past the tree tops carefully, and this one was too steep to walk on and covered in loose mine tailings.  Seemingly unconcerned and with his medical coverage no doubt fully paid up, one intrepid Mattracks rep pointed his Grizzly at the heavens and stabbed at the throttle.  The LiteFoot kit clawed at the slope like a badger on meth, but the Grizzly continued to climb.  At only 40’ from the top, the rider stopped just to show us what the kit could do.  He gave us a wave, then from a dead stop he again pegged the throttle and easily crested the top.  We were impressed!

Later in the year, we were also able to test the LiteFoot kit on another Grizzly and a Yamaha Rhino in snow.  Again we were impressed with how it crossed deep snow a wheeled machine would never manage.  Rather than cutting through the snow, the tracks easily climbed up on it.  It was fun to slide the kit across bare ice and to ride the rolling drifts.   

One thing that’s very important to farmers and anyone with sensitive or wet terrain is ground pressure.  Because each track has a total ground contact surface area many times greater than any tire, ground pressure will be negligible.  Your foot will transfer more ground pressure than the LiteFoot kit will. 
Go Anywhere with Litefoot

The LiteFoot tracks provide great traction, stability, high flotation and you’ll still be moving long after a traditional set of tires has become hopelessly bogged down.  If your duck blind, work site, or cabin is far off the road and inaccessible at times, Mattracks can get you there when nobody else can. 

www.LiteFootatv.comwww.mattracks.com (http://www.LiteFootatv.comwww.mattracks.com)


You buy these treads as a kit and you change them out on your ATV just like changing your tires.  Hook them on the electric Polaris Ranger, and you are good to go all seasons over any terrain!  You'll have to call for pricing.  No doubt expensive as all hell.

RE

RE is such a closet techno-cornucopian. Quit looking at all that shiny stuff. You know how you get.
I'm looking at a used set of tracks for my ATV. They are complex and prone to problems but when they work you feel like an all terrain god. Really pricey. A used set is 1500 over 3000 new...too much spent on toys this year probably. I'm not a fan of the utvs I find them too heavy to push out if tou get stuck and they don't float over snow as well as the atvs
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on December 08, 2018, 10:06:22 PM
Thanks for thinking of me Big Guy. I'm honored. But I cant in good conscience do this to you. Like me, you would get screwed by the shipping. Its a canada issue. Stuff from the states only gets shipped to us Priority Post. You know that cheap one showed you. 15$... they wanted to charge 40$ shipping... plus there is an import duty. One of those you showed doesnt even ship to canada.
[/quote]

No, I joined Amazon Prime for that very reason.  I get free shipping.  :icon_sunny:

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world: Ultimate SHTF Day Electric Chainsaw System
Post by: Nearingsfault on December 08, 2018, 10:19:19 PM
OK, I have come up with what I think should be an agreeable solution to going all-electric for your post-shtf day Electric Chainsaw needs.  :icon_sunny:

To start with, the chainsaw itself.  Getting the highest ratings with 4.8 out of 5 in the category of Professional quality electric chainsaws is the corded Makita 16" Electric Chain Saw (model UC4051A)

(https://cdn.makitatools.com/apps/cms/img/uc4/97067b14-3e7d-4b11-862b-2cc799db1a4e_uc4051a_p_1500px.png?height=800&trim.threshold=1)


UC4051A
16" Electric Chain Saw
Buy LocalBuy Online

    INNOVATION : “Tool-less” blade and chain adjustment /replacement by simply turning a lever
    COMFORT : Rubberized grip handles and large trigger switch for comfortable use
    CONTROL : Large metal spike bumper for added convenience
    CONVENIENCE : Oil level visible through large window for easy sight check of bar lubricant
    INCLUDES : Chain, guide bar and chain cover

UC4051A

UC4051A UC4051A UC4051A UC4051A UC4051A UC4051A UC4051A UC4051A UC4051A UC4051A

About Model

The Makita 16" Electric Chain Saw (model UC4051A) is engineered for fast cutting, efficient operation and easy maintenance, without the hassle of gas. The UC4051A has a chain speed of 2,900 FPM for efficient cutting and trimming. The motor has a built-in current limiter which is engineered to protect the motor from burnout by reducing power when the saw is overloaded, and an electric chain brake for maximum productivity. Additional features include an automatic chain oiler for heavy continuous cutting, and a large oil reservoir with view window that allows the operator to easily check the oil level. For increased comfort, the chain saw has ergonomic rubberized grip handles, and a large trigger switch with soft start for smooth start-ups.

Features

    "Tool-less" blade and chain adjustments for convenient operation and easy maintenance
    Rubberized grip handles are ergonomically designed for comfort
    Large trigger switch with soft start for smooth start-ups
    Built-in current limiter helps protect motor from burnout by reducing power to motor when saw is overloaded
    Large oil reservoir with view window allows operator to check bar oil level
    Automatic chain oiler for heavy continuous cutting
    Electric chain brake for maximum productivity
    Zero emissions and reduced maintenance
    Soft start for smooth start-ups
    Current limiter helps protect motor from damage caused by heat



Coming in now on Amazon Smile at the bargain price of $235.99.  Don't forget to designate the Sustaining Universal Needs Foundation as your charity when you buy!  :icon_sunny:

To power your saw out in the field and pull your load of chopped up trees back to your doomstead, you use an Electric Sled Tow.

(https://inhabitat.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2014/02/yvon-martel-mtt-136-all-terrain-electric-sled-2.jpg)

You can either buy one already assembled from Yvon Martel (probably pretty pricy) or DIY cannibalizing the treads off a junked snow machine  and dropping in a 5000W 48V Electric Motor to drive the thing.

(https://www.monsterscooterparts.com/media/catalog/product/4/8/48v-5000w-brushless-aircooled-motor-golden_5.jpg)

Currently $525 from Monster Scooter Parts, but they run sales all the time of 10-15% off.

For batteries, 4 large size 100AH deep cycle marine batteries  front and rear on the sled for weight and balance.  Wire in series to run the 48V motor, switch to parallel to run your inverter.

(http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l800/pict/302683936605_1.jpg)

Currently $260/ea on Amazon Smile.   Don't forget to designate the Sustaining Universal Needs Foundation as your charity when you buy!  :icon_sunny:

3000W Pure Sine Wave Inverter to run your corded power tools out in the field.

(https://powertechon.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/PS1002_1000x1000-01.jpg)

Currently $319 on Amazon Smile.   Don't forget to designate the Sustaining Universal Needs Foundation as your charity when you buy!  :icon_sunny:

You could add some Solar Panels to the top of the tractor to recharge the batts while out in the field.  Probably overkill though since you'll never cut enough wood in a day to run down 4 deep cycle 100AH batts.
I'm very weary of anything that brags about tool less chain adjustment. Stihl had it on a few models then it quietly went away. Generally I like makita tools although they have in recent years gone the route of 2 tier tools where there is a mass market cheaper version and a pro version available through dealer networks. Dewalt, milwaulkee, and Porter cable have also gone this route.The lithium snow sled is a fun looking toy. A cousin of mine used to skidoo with martel the guy who developed it.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on December 08, 2018, 10:20:48 PM
I'm looking at a used set of tracks for my ATV. They are complex and prone to problems but when they work you feel like an all terrain god. Really pricey. A used set is 1500 over 3000 new...too much spent on toys this year probably. I'm not a fan of the utvs I find them too heavy to push out if tou get stuck and they don't float over snow as well as the atvs

If I am spending $12K on a new EV Polaris Ranger, what's another $3K for a set of treads?  Chump Change!

Seriously though, for my uses around here, a set of good Knobby Tires will work fine.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world: Ultimate SHTF Day Electric Chainsaw System
Post by: RE on December 08, 2018, 10:25:24 PM
I'm very weary of anything that brags about tool less chain adjustment. Stihl had it on a few models then it quietly went away. Generally I like makita tools although they have in recent years gone the route of 2 tier tools where there is a mass market cheaper version and a pro version available through dealer networks. Dewalt, milwaulkee, and Porter cable have also gone this route.The lithium snow sled is a fun looking toy. A cousin of mine used to skidoo with martel the guy who developed it.

I still think the best way to go is to get treads off junked snow machines and build a DIY model.  Do the whole thing for less than $1K I'd bet.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on December 08, 2018, 10:39:05 PM
How about this one?  Great price!  Bet I beat your price even with shipping (it's not available from Amazon Prime).

(https://dccf75d8gej24.cloudfront.net/images/products/04/041112270/74A6C86A-9EE2-49D7-8E3C-404831F874AB-large.jpg)


RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on December 09, 2018, 06:38:55 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6MlHxAzLXA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6MlHxAzLXA)

I cant help myself. I had to share. I just started my partII in the C5 gets wood, series. Its called...

C5 Gets Apocalyptic Wood From Faggots.

I'm Looking forward to seeing that title as the header at the Doomstead Diner

In it, we will bypass all this chainsaw talk. I am hoping to order a billhook in the next few days. They are all pricey and rare though. This is the only cheap version I have found
https://www.machetespecialists.com/product/imacasa-10-inch-coa-machete-blade/ (https://www.machetespecialists.com/product/imacasa-10-inch-coa-machete-blade/)



Here is a teaser of some of what I will be writing about 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LizqU8OOVh0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LizqU8OOVh0)

I'm guessing you saw these already. They look like they're better, perhaps. Still within reason.

https://www.ebay.com/i/183530024518?chn=ps (https://www.ebay.com/i/183530024518?chn=ps)
I actually already have one of those.

I need something that works better in tight  brush (I recently did a 40 ft test plot of hedge laying to get a feel for the work load)

For anyone that does not know, a faggot is a bundle of sticks. Brits would know what faggot wood is.
I have one of the fiskars tools. Sort of a bill hook saw combined. A little light. I've been thinking of that Lee valley one... also grinding down a leaf spring from my neighbors scrap heap... good hard tool steel in leaf springs.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on December 09, 2018, 07:06:29 AM
I have one of the fiskars tools. Sort of a bill hook saw combined. A little light. I've been thinking of that Lee valley one... also grinding down a leaf spring from my neighbors scrap heap... good hard tool steel in leaf springs.

I found what looks to be a pretty good one.  It's on it's way to C5 now.  He'll review it after it arrives, just after Christmas.  I'm not putting up pics of it though because I want it to be a surprise when he gets it.  :icon_sunny:

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: cernunnos5 on December 09, 2018, 04:05:31 PM
I have one of the fiskars tools. Sort of a bill hook saw combined. A little light. I've been thinking of that Lee valley one... also grinding down a leaf spring from my neighbors scrap heap... good hard tool steel in leaf springs.

I found what looks to be a pretty good one.  It's on it's way to C5 now.  He'll review it after it arrives, just after Christmas.  I'm not putting up pics of it though because I want it to be a surprise when he gets it.  :icon_sunny:

RE

OK,  NF,  get out of my brain, you evil mother... with your evil mind sucking machine. Who sent you.......  :coffee:

I too had been thinking of hitting the metal yard for a leaf  spring and grinding one out if I could'nt find anything. I'm curious to see how Re's tool will handle the job.

And I have no idea why anyone ever invented that tiny little Fiscars. Silly tool

By the way, that is a very cool mind sucking machine youve got there, Dr. Evil. Where can I buy one :o
Title: C5 Knife Abuse Test
Post by: RE on December 09, 2018, 05:18:29 PM
I have one of the fiskars tools. Sort of a bill hook saw combined. A little light. I've been thinking of that Lee valley one... also grinding down a leaf spring from my neighbors scrap heap... good hard tool steel in leaf springs.

I found what looks to be a pretty good one.  It's on it's way to C5 now.  He'll review it after it arrives, just after Christmas.  I'm not putting up pics of it though because I want it to be a surprise when he gets it.  :icon_sunny:

RE

OK,  NF,  get out of my brain, you evil mother... with your evil mind sucking machine. Who sent you.......  :coffee:

I too had been thinking of hitting the metal yard for a leaf  spring and grinding one out if I could'nt find anything. I'm curious to see how Re's tool will handle the job.

And I have no idea why anyone ever invented that tiny little Fiscars. Silly tool

By the way, that is a very cool mind sucking machine youve got there, Dr. Evil. Where can I buy one :o

While you might make a serviceable billhook out of a leaf spring, it will never get as sharp or hold an edge as well as good high carbon stainless steel alloyed specifically for using to make knives.  If you wanted a REALLY good one, you would have to make it out of Damascus Steel.  That's what the Samurai used for their swords.

Then there is the thickness issue on the blade, you need different thickness blades for different purposes.  You don't grind a Fillet Knife out of the same blanks as a Chef's Knife, nor do you grind a Chef's Knife out of the same Blanks as a Hunting Knife.  These are all knives used for different purposes.  My Chef's Knife is not the same as my Hunting Knife, though both are as sharp as I can make these type of blades.  You really want sharp in a knife, use a Straight Razor blank or a Fillet Knife blank.

For the Billhook you want a knife with a decent amount of mass behind it, because of course KE=1/2mv2.  The kinetic energy delivered by the knife edge to the stalk to cut it is determined by the mass and how fast you swing the billhook.  The length of the blade has nothing to do with it as long as you are accurate.  Then doing a day's work, you have to depend on the blade staying sharp, because you don't want to have to sharpen it after every 20 cuts.  Once at the end of the day should be enough.

The blade I bought got very high marks, 4.5 out of 5 with 100 respondents of purchasers.  We'll see if it can stand up to the "C5 Knife Abuse Test". lol.

RE
Title: Re: C5 Knife Abuse Test
Post by: Nearingsfault on December 09, 2018, 05:47:09 PM
I have one of the fiskars tools. Sort of a bill hook saw combined. A little light. I've been thinking of that Lee valley one... also grinding down a leaf spring from my neighbors scrap heap... good hard tool steel in leaf springs.

I found what looks to be a pretty good one.  It's on it's way to C5 now.  He'll review it after it arrives, just after Christmas.  I'm not putting up pics of it though because I want it to be a surprise when he gets it.  :icon_sunny:

RE

OK,  NF,  get out of my brain, you evil mother... with your evil mind sucking machine. Who sent you.......  :coffee:

I too had been thinking of hitting the metal yard for a leaf  spring and grinding one out if I could'nt find anything. I'm curious to see how Re's tool will handle the job.

And I have no idea why anyone ever invented that tiny little Fiscars. Silly tool

By the way, that is a very cool mind sucking machine youve got there, Dr. Evil. Where can I buy one :o

While you might make a serviceable billhook out of a leaf spring, it will never get as sharp or hold an edge as well as good high carbon stainless steel alloyed specifically for using to make knives.  If you wanted a REALLY good one, you would have to make it out of Damascus Steel.  That's what the Samurai used for their swords.

Then there is the thickness issue on the blade, you need different thickness blades for different purposes.  You don't grind a Fillet Knife out of the same blanks as a Chef's Knife, nor do you grind a Chef's Knife out of the same Blanks as a Hunting Knife.  These are all knives used for different purposes.  My Chef's Knife is not the same as my Hunting Knife, though both are as sharp as I can make these type of blades.  You really want sharp in a knife, use a Straight Razor blank or a Fillet Knife blank.

For the Billhook you want a knife with a decent amount of mass behind it, because of course KE=1/2mv2.  The kinetic energy delivered by the knife edge to the stalk to cut it is determined by the mass and how fast you swing the billhook.  The length of the blade has nothing to do with it as long as you are accurate.  Then doing a day's work, you have to depend on the blade staying sharp, because you don't want to have to sharpen it after every 20 cuts.  Once at the end of the day should be enough.

The blade I bought got very high marks, 4.5 out of 5 with 100 respondents of purchasers.  We'll see if it can stand up to the "C5 Knife Abuse Test". lol.

RE
yes and no. Traditionally axes are a softer steel the can be easily sharpened with a file. I think bill hooks follow the same idea. The mind sucking... well that's probably because we've all read the same post apocalyptic fiction. The leaf spring is straight out of dies the fire when the bear killers get together.
Title: Re: C5 Knife Abuse Test
Post by: RE on December 09, 2018, 06:02:20 PM
I have one of the fiskars tools. Sort of a bill hook saw combined. A little light. I've been thinking of that Lee valley one... also grinding down a leaf spring from my neighbors scrap heap... good hard tool steel in leaf springs.

I found what looks to be a pretty good one.  It's on it's way to C5 now.  He'll review it after it arrives, just after Christmas.  I'm not putting up pics of it though because I want it to be a surprise when he gets it.  :icon_sunny:

RE

OK,  NF,  get out of my brain, you evil mother... with your evil mind sucking machine. Who sent you.......  :coffee:

I too had been thinking of hitting the metal yard for a leaf  spring and grinding one out if I could'nt find anything. I'm curious to see how Re's tool will handle the job.

And I have no idea why anyone ever invented that tiny little Fiscars. Silly tool

By the way, that is a very cool mind sucking machine youve got there, Dr. Evil. Where can I buy one :o

While you might make a serviceable billhook out of a leaf spring, it will never get as sharp or hold an edge as well as good high carbon stainless steel alloyed specifically for using to make knives.  If you wanted a REALLY good one, you would have to make it out of Damascus Steel.  That's what the Samurai used for their swords.

Then there is the thickness issue on the blade, you need different thickness blades for different purposes.  You don't grind a Fillet Knife out of the same blanks as a Chef's Knife, nor do you grind a Chef's Knife out of the same Blanks as a Hunting Knife.  These are all knives used for different purposes.  My Chef's Knife is not the same as my Hunting Knife, though both are as sharp as I can make these type of blades.  You really want sharp in a knife, use a Straight Razor blank or a Fillet Knife blank.

For the Billhook you want a knife with a decent amount of mass behind it, because of course KE=1/2mv2.  The kinetic energy delivered by the knife edge to the stalk to cut it is determined by the mass and how fast you swing the billhook.  The length of the blade has nothing to do with it as long as you are accurate.  Then doing a day's work, you have to depend on the blade staying sharp, because you don't want to have to sharpen it after every 20 cuts.  Once at the end of the day should be enough.

The blade I bought got very high marks, 4.5 out of 5 with 100 respondents of purchasers.  We'll see if it can stand up to the "C5 Knife Abuse Test". lol.

RE
yes and no. Traditionally axes are a softer steel the can be easily sharpened with a file. I think bill hooks follow the same idea. The mind sucking... well that's probably because we've all read the same post apocalyptic fiction. The leaf spring is straight out of dies the fire when the bear killers get together.

Axes are another category with another set of parameters,  they are a "chopping" knife exclusively.  There are two basic types of knives, Chopping Knives and Slicing Knives. In my world of cooking, you see the difference in a Butcher's Meat Cleaver vs a Turkey Carving Knife.  The Meat Cleaver is a Chopping Knife, the Carving Knife is a Slicing Knife.  You can't substitute one for the other, at least not and do a good job with it.

A Chef's Knife falls in the middle, for most purposes you can either Chop with it or Slice with it.  If you can only have one knife in the kitchen to work with, it's a Chef's Knife.  Just don't try to slice your Smoked Salmon with it or part out a Chicken.  You can't do as a good a job with it no matter how good you are with a knife.

The Billhook is like a Chef's Knife in that it performs both functions.  You use a Chopping Action, but then once the blade contacts the stalk because of the sickle shape it starts to slice as well.  So it has to be hard enough to withstand the chopping action but sharp enough to also slice.

In ALL case the old adage remains true. "Better to spend an hour sharpening the axe and an hour chopping the wood than 4 hours chopping the wood".

RE
Title: Re: C5 Knife Abuse Test
Post by: cernunnos5 on December 09, 2018, 07:51:51 PM


  Then doing a day's work, you have to depend on the blade staying sharp, because you don't want to have to sharpen it after every 20 cuts.

RE
[/quote] The mind sucking... well that's probably because we've all read the same post apocalyptic fiction. The leaf spring is straight out of dies the fire when the bear killers get together.
[/quote]



In ALL case the old adage remains true. "Better to spend an hour sharpening the axe and an hour chopping the wood than 4 hours chopping the wood".

RE
[/quote]



Speaking of psychic mind sucking machines....

Yup. Strait out of Dies The Fire was my thinking too. Whoed of thunk, Dies the fire and World War Z would be the best survival manuals. The actual prepper fiction, not so much.

20 cuts and sharpen, had also been the exact number on my mind when considering the tool (just last night). I was thinking it may be like a scythe... and I would use the same stone. 20 cuts, Zick zick zick. 20 cuts Zick zick zick. The scythe blade isnt rasor sharp. The stone cuts in little nicks so it acts like a saw blade.

I am absolutely and embarrassingly terrible in my tool maintenance.

But it proves again why the corded angle grinder is my number four in the top five prepper items. Because you can make magical items like a billhook. NS, I figure you might have a stationary grinder and that would make the job far easier than my angle grinder. Love to see what you come up with. I'll try to get a photo of a couple of my choppers in the next C5 gets wood article

Re would love my one good kitchen knife. It was holy grail moment find in a random thrift store that I got for 25$. It just looked like an old knife but I noticed that inscibed it said Razor Steel. I knew I would be hauling this around for life as one of my most valuable possessions.  I have been negligent in sharpening it for a couple years and even after regular use, its still the sharpest knife in the house.
Title: Re: C5 Knife Abuse Test
Post by: RE on December 09, 2018, 08:33:01 PM
Re would love my one good kitchen knife. It was holy grail moment find in a random thrift store that I got for 25$. It just looked like an old knife but I noticed that inscibed it said Razor Steel. I knew I would be hauling this around for life as one of my most valuable possessions.  I have been negligent in sharpening it for a couple years and even after regular use, its still the sharpest knife in the house.

Far as my cooking knives are concerned, I'm obsessive about sharpening them.  No idea how sharp they would be after a couple of years not hitting the stone, because I usually can't help myself and sharpen them every couple of weeks or so whether they need it or not, which they usually don't. lol.

If you do make your own billhook out of a leaf spring, it would be interesting to see a direct comparison with the commercial blade in the field.

I have been thinking about it, and the curvature radius of the blade is dependent on the stroke you use and the location on the blade you make contact with the stalk.  That will be a bit different for different billhooks, and I think you need to get used to one and stick with it to perfect your stroke for that blade.

RE
Title: 🔪 Knife Sharpening Dilemmas
Post by: RE on December 10, 2018, 07:45:19 AM
OK, all this talk about knives has got me "Sharp Crazy".  I've been looking at sharpeners of various kinds to supplement my trusty Whetstone.  I haven't had an Electric since I was a kid and we had one we brought back from Brazil which was attached to an electric can opener on the other side, using the same motor.  It wasn't real high quality, but it did OK with the Knives we also brought back, which I used until I went off to Columbia.  Cripple that I am these days, an electric would make it easier to keep my knives Razor Sharp.  But which one to buy?  The Chef's Choice model seems to get the best reviews.  Diamond sharpening wheels, that's important.  It's a big step up from carbide grits.

http://www.youtube.com/v/W4SitQ0cknc

$130 from Amazon.  Pricy, but my knives are worth it!  :icon_sunny:

RE
Title: Another fun day in the field
Post by: Nearingsfault on December 12, 2018, 01:38:22 PM
At this time of year our installations are done for the year. We get a lot of interesting calls though. This one was a malfunctioning AGS which turned out to be a genny low on oil and 1000 lbs of batteries frozen solid at a remote camp in a 100000 acre private forest. 20 kms by snowmobile trail. I had not ridden a snow mobile in over 20 years...
Photo 1 the drive up
Photo2 random trail crossing halfway point
Photo3 20km in the Bush by snow mobile; finally there
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on December 12, 2018, 01:43:28 PM
Are those snow machines "company cars"? 

55 degrees F here this morning. We're at the at that time of year when the work weekdays are nice.....and only weekends have bad weather.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on December 12, 2018, 01:46:12 PM
We have one we could use and a sled but in this case these are the work machines that belong to the forest. Mine had 18000 km on it and was 5 years old.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: azozeo on December 12, 2018, 02:54:15 PM
I feel for you mate.

Cold, wet & tired ....
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on December 12, 2018, 03:00:03 PM
We have one we could use and a sled but in this case these are the work machines that belong to the forest. Mine had 18000 km on it and was 5 years old.

That's hell of a lot o' snow miles. Wow.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on December 12, 2018, 03:37:23 PM
We have one we could use and a sled but in this case these are the work machines that belong to the forest. Mine had 18000 km on it and was 5 years old.

That's hell of a lot o' snow miles. Wow.
not for me that's for sure. Some people just love it though.
Title: Chickens, Greenhouse, food waste
Post by: Nearingsfault on January 16, 2019, 07:39:19 AM
I think I've internalized a great deal of permaculture writing by this point. I particularly like the whole stacking thing.
Case in point one of the hot button issues these days seems to be food waste. Protest this, boycott that, legislate, regulate, blah, blah, blah. People just need chickens! I overwinter them in my hoop house usually in a fenced in section. My wonderful 7 year old decided they needed exercise so let them loose one morning. by the time I revisited 2 days later the winter kale bed was toast. Throwing up my hands in defeat I gave them the run of the place. I expect very little insect or weed problem this year as they have turned it into a devastated landscape in short order. So from my food waste I will receive new eggs, compostable manure, tilled beds, reduced pest problems and if they ever annoy me too much again chicken for the freezer. No methane in garbage dumps, less bags to haul out, less feed costs.
As you will see below they attack the stuff. When I'm home I feed them pellets in the afternoon and scraps in the morning so I know they will consume the waste first. Not much delayed gratification in a chicken. Pellets fill up their nutritional lack if any but the scraps have a lot of vegetables and peelings so its probably more nutritionally diverse then their feed... Greenhouse facts is -7c outside today and  3c inside the greenhouse. single layer of plastic, 20x40ft. the ground will start to freeze now that the cold is really setting in.
What can I say; I love chickens.
http://www.youtube.com/v/miruof7E28E
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Eddie on January 16, 2019, 10:00:07 AM
Dad, the chickens deserve their freedom. It's their right. LOL.

We've reached that time of year when it's cool during the week, but drops to downright cold by the weekend. At or near freezing Saturday and Sunday nights and then warming back up first of the week next week. That's the forecast.

Our food waste stream is a weird mix, because my daughter only wants veggie waste and coffee grounds and egg shells in the compost. I'd feed the meat scraps to the dogs if it were me, but both she and her mother are squinchy about certain things, like chicken bones. Not the way I was raised. We didn't buy much dog food when I was a kid. Now I buy two 40 pound bags of organic dog food a month.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on January 16, 2019, 10:08:37 AM
Dad, the chickens deserve their freedom. It's their right. LOL.

We've reached that time of year when it's cool during the week, but drops to downright cold by the weekend. At or near freezing Saturday and Sunday nights and then warming back up first of the week next week. That's the forecast.

Our food waste stream is a weird mix, because my daughter only wants veggie waste and coffee grounds and egg shells in the compost. I'd feed the meat scraps to the dogs if it were me, but both she and her mother are squinchy about certain things, like chicken bones. Not the way I was raised. We didn't buy much dog food when I was a kid. Now I buy two 40 pound bags of organic dog food a month.
Same boat. My dog Tesla (named before the car was around) eats lamb, fish, brown rice and blueberries in her mix. Fish oils for coat and table scraps to make it all go down. I do soup stock with all our bones so what is left is pretty harmless. they get chopped up and into the compost. I don't feed them directly to the chickens even I have my limits. If there is chicken leftover in a plate scrapping I don't bother separating it for them though.
Cheers...
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on January 16, 2019, 10:24:12 AM
Dad, the chickens deserve their freedom. It's their right. LOL.

We've reached that time of year when it's cool during the week, but drops to downright cold by the weekend. At or near freezing Saturday and Sunday nights and then warming back up first of the week next week. That's the forecast.

Our food waste stream is a weird mix, because my daughter only wants veggie waste and coffee grounds and egg shells in the compost. I'd feed the meat scraps to the dogs if it were me, but both she and her mother are squinchy about certain things, like chicken bones. Not the way I was raised. We didn't buy much dog food when I was a kid. Now I buy two 40 pound bags of organic dog food a month.
Same boat. My dog Tesla (named before the car was around) eats lamb, fish, brown rice and blueberries in her mix. Fish oils for coat and table scraps to make it all go down. I do soup stock with all our bones so what is left is pretty harmless. they get chopped up and into the compost. I don't feed them directly to the chickens even I have my limits. If there is chicken leftover in a plate scrapping I don't bother separating it for them though.
Cheers...

Two words here.

FOOD PROCESSOR!

There is nothing a Cuisinart can't turn into a good meal for people, much less Chickens.  Process long enough, you can even turn the bones into puree and make a pate out of it.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on January 16, 2019, 10:33:30 AM
Dad, the chickens deserve their freedom. It's their right. LOL.

We've reached that time of year when it's cool during the week, but drops to downright cold by the weekend. At or near freezing Saturday and Sunday nights and then warming back up first of the week next week. That's the forecast.

Our food waste stream is a weird mix, because my daughter only wants veggie waste and coffee grounds and egg shells in the compost. I'd feed the meat scraps to the dogs if it were me, but both she and her mother are squinchy about certain things, like chicken bones. Not the way I was raised. We didn't buy much dog food when I was a kid. Now I buy two 40 pound bags of organic dog food a month.
Same boat. My dog Tesla (named before the car was around) eats lamb, fish, brown rice and blueberries in her mix. Fish oils for coat and table scraps to make it all go down. I do soup stock with all our bones so what is left is pretty harmless. they get chopped up and into the compost. I don't feed them directly to the chickens even I have my limits. If there is chicken leftover in a plate scrapping I don't bother separating it for them though.
Cheers...

Two words here.

FOOD PROCESSOR!

There is nothing a Cuisinart can't turn into a good meal for people, much less Chickens.  Process long enough, you can even turn the bones into puree and make a pate out of it.

RE
well when times get that lean and mean I'd probably do that. By the time you've made stock there is really not much left there food wise I think.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on January 16, 2019, 10:37:06 AM
Dad, the chickens deserve their freedom. It's their right. LOL.

We've reached that time of year when it's cool during the week, but drops to downright cold by the weekend. At or near freezing Saturday and Sunday nights and then warming back up first of the week next week. That's the forecast.

Our food waste stream is a weird mix, because my daughter only wants veggie waste and coffee grounds and egg shells in the compost. I'd feed the meat scraps to the dogs if it were me, but both she and her mother are squinchy about certain things, like chicken bones. Not the way I was raised. We didn't buy much dog food when I was a kid. Now I buy two 40 pound bags of organic dog food a month.
Same boat. My dog Tesla (named before the car was around) eats lamb, fish, brown rice and blueberries in her mix. Fish oils for coat and table scraps to make it all go down. I do soup stock with all our bones so what is left is pretty harmless. they get chopped up and into the compost. I don't feed them directly to the chickens even I have my limits. If there is chicken leftover in a plate scrapping I don't bother separating it for them though.
Cheers...

Two words here.

FOOD PROCESSOR!

There is nothing a Cuisinart can't turn into a good meal for people, much less Chickens.  Process long enough, you can even turn the bones into puree and make a pate out of it.

RE
well when times get that lean and mean I'd probably do that. By the time you've made stock there is really not much left there food wise I think.

That's true.  If you simmer anything long enough also, you'll extract most of what has any nutritional value left in it.  Grinding up the bones though does help get the marrow out.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on June 02, 2019, 07:24:24 PM
Spring is always a crazy time. As a tradesperson in cottage country spring determines your year. Not much time for doom or anything else. Still the garden must go in. I bought a bed making attachment for my tractor in the fall. You attach different accessories onto a 5  ft toolbar. In my case a set of angled disks to push in the soil and form a bed and some cultivators to loosen everything up. Five years ago it was almost impossible to buy a new small implement so I have some antiques kicking around. It is nice to have something new. I don't know if its a trend but there are a lot of small scale gear coming out. The tractor is running great on charcoal. I formed all the beds on less than a gallon of gasoline equivalent (13 lbs of charcoal) before shutting down.
Cheers
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on June 02, 2019, 08:11:27 PM
Spring is always a crazy time. As a tradesperson in cottage country spring determines your year. Not much time for doom or anything else. Still the garden must go in. I bought a bed making attachment for my tractor in the fall. You attach different accessories onto a 5  ft toolbar. In my case a set of angled disks to push in the soil and form a bed and some cultivators to loosen everything up. Five years ago it was almost impossible to buy a new small implement so I have some antiques kicking around. It is nice to have something new. I don't know if its a trend but there are a lot of small scale gear coming out. The tractor is running great on charcoal. I formed all the beds on less than a gallon of gasoline equivalent (13 lbs of charcoal) before shutting down.
Cheers

How about we do a vidcast onspring planting with post-collapse machinery?

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: AJ on June 03, 2019, 03:25:46 AM
Your beds look beautiful. My problem is deer/elk. Don't you have to worry that your fences will allow grazers in?? My fences have to be 7' high with 10' T posts and solid corner posts. Then the problem becomes how would you get a tractor in? (removable fencing gets removed by deer/elk. Gardening is an endless slog. AND now the weathers changing. Two weeks of scorching heat in early May followed by 2 weeks of rain with no sun. The slugs just loved the plants that I put in the ground for them :'(. And then the "organic" slug bait just attracted the Blue Jays that ripped out the plants to get the bait (doesn't hurt birds). So I had to buy a high powered BB gun (a 308 or even a 22 is overkill) to shoot the Jays. It never ends (except in collapse and death).
AJ
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on June 03, 2019, 03:29:15 AM
It never ends

The struggle for survival is universal.  Our society just got used to this being pretty EZ, aided and abetted by 22,000 Energy Slaves.  Now it's time to get back to the basics.

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on June 03, 2019, 03:44:55 AM
Your beds look beautiful. My problem is deer/elk. Don't you have to worry that your fences will allow grazers in?? My fences have to be 7' high with 10' T posts and solid corner posts. Then the problem becomes how would you get a tractor in? (removable fencing gets removed by deer/elk. Gardening is an endless slog. AND now the weathers changing. Two weeks of scorching heat in early May followed by 2 weeks of rain with no sun. The slugs just loved the plants that I put in the ground for them :'(. And then the "organic" slug bait just attracted the Blue Jays that ripped out the plants to get the bait (doesn't hurt birds). So I had to buy a high powered BB gun (a 308 or even a 22 is overkill) to shoot the Jays. It never ends (except in collapse and death).
AJ
its a pretty small maneuverable tractor. One side of the fence comes off so I can till then it goes back pretty quick. Hopefully ill only have to reform the beds every few years. It's the bunnies that get me here. Never seen a deer on my property except in the dead of winter when they chew my apple trees if not covered. It's very wooded and swampy here the deer usually stick to grassy areas. Lots of moose but they like swamp. I don't think you can kill your way out of it myself except for a few squirrels you have to build pest resistant. They always get something you just plan for that. For wildlife  I would suggest the motion activated waterers if fencing isn't working.
Cheers
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on June 03, 2019, 03:52:58 AM
Your beds look beautiful. My problem is deer/elk. Don't you have to worry that your fences will allow grazers in?? My fences have to be 7' high with 10' T posts and solid corner posts. Then the problem becomes how would you get a tractor in? (removable fencing gets removed by deer/elk. Gardening is an endless slog. AND now the weathers changing. Two weeks of scorching heat in early May followed by 2 weeks of rain with no sun. The slugs just loved the plants that I put in the ground for them :'(. And then the "organic" slug bait just attracted the Blue Jays that ripped out the plants to get the bait (doesn't hurt birds). So I had to buy a high powered BB gun (a 308 or even a 22 is overkill) to shoot the Jays. It never ends (except in collapse and death).
AJ
its a pretty small maneuverable tractor. One side of the fence comes off so I can till then it goes back pretty quick. It's the bunnies that get me here. Never seen a deer on my property except in the dead of winter when they chew my apple trees if not covered. It's very wooded here the deer usually stick to grassy areas. Lots of moose but they like swamp.

Sounds like a great vidcast!  Got time for it?

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on June 03, 2019, 09:03:50 AM
Your beds look beautiful. My problem is deer/elk. Don't you have to worry that your fences will allow grazers in?? My fences have to be 7' high with 10' T posts and solid corner posts. Then the problem becomes how would you get a tractor in? (removable fencing gets removed by deer/elk. Gardening is an endless slog. AND now the weathers changing. Two weeks of scorching heat in early May followed by 2 weeks of rain with no sun. The slugs just loved the plants that I put in the ground for them :'(. And then the "organic" slug bait just attracted the Blue Jays that ripped out the plants to get the bait (doesn't hurt birds). So I had to buy a high powered BB gun (a 308 or even a 22 is overkill) to shoot the Jays. It never ends (except in collapse and death).
AJ
its a pretty small maneuverable tractor. One side of the fence comes off so I can till then it goes back pretty quick. It's the bunnies that get me here. Never seen a deer on my property except in the dead of winter when they chew my apple trees if not covered. It's very wooded here the deer usually stick to grassy areas. Lots of moose but they like swamp.

Sounds like a great vidcast!  Got time for it?

RE
the fall? spring is too nuts. I'll be forming more beds at a friends place sometime this summer for next year... i'll set up for vids then.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on June 03, 2019, 09:15:40 AM
Your beds look beautiful. My problem is deer/elk. Don't you have to worry that your fences will allow grazers in?? My fences have to be 7' high with 10' T posts and solid corner posts. Then the problem becomes how would you get a tractor in? (removable fencing gets removed by deer/elk. Gardening is an endless slog. AND now the weathers changing. Two weeks of scorching heat in early May followed by 2 weeks of rain with no sun. The slugs just loved the plants that I put in the ground for them :'(. And then the "organic" slug bait just attracted the Blue Jays that ripped out the plants to get the bait (doesn't hurt birds). So I had to buy a high powered BB gun (a 308 or even a 22 is overkill) to shoot the Jays. It never ends (except in collapse and death).
AJ
its a pretty small maneuverable tractor. One side of the fence comes off so I can till then it goes back pretty quick. It's the bunnies that get me here. Never seen a deer on my property except in the dead of winter when they chew my apple trees if not covered. It's very wooded here the deer usually stick to grassy areas. Lots of moose but they like swamp.

Sounds like a great vidcast!  Got time for it?

RE
the fall? spring is too nuts. I'll be forming more beds at a friends place sometime this summer for next year... i'll set up for vids then.

Sounds like a plan.  July?  August?

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Surly1 on June 03, 2019, 05:20:40 PM
Your beds look beautiful. My problem is deer/elk. Don't you have to worry that your fences will allow grazers in?? My fences have to be 7' high with 10' T posts and solid corner posts. Then the problem becomes how would you get a tractor in? (removable fencing gets removed by deer/elk. Gardening is an endless slog. AND now the weathers changing. Two weeks of scorching heat in early May followed by 2 weeks of rain with no sun. The slugs just loved the plants that I put in the ground for them :'(. And then the "organic" slug bait just attracted the Blue Jays that ripped out the plants to get the bait (doesn't hurt birds). So I had to buy a high powered BB gun (a 308 or even a 22 is overkill) to shoot the Jays. It never ends (except in collapse and death).
AJ
its a pretty small maneuverable tractor. One side of the fence comes off so I can till then it goes back pretty quick. It's the bunnies that get me here. Never seen a deer on my property except in the dead of winter when they chew my apple trees if not covered. It's very wooded here the deer usually stick to grassy areas. Lots of moose but they like swamp.

Sounds like a great vidcast!  Got time for it?

RE
the fall? spring is too nuts. I'll be forming more beds at a friends place sometime this summer for next year... i'll set up for vids then.

Sounds like a plan.  July?  August?

RE

That would be a great idea. One positive vote from this corner.
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on August 07, 2019, 05:24:46 AM
I've been dormant lately due to a pretty heavy work load. Its the agricultural fair this weekend though so I need to prep my charcoal powered tractor. To that end I ground up all my charcoal last night. This is not a hobby if you like to keep your hands clean in fact charcoal gasification people refer to themselves as members of the black hand gang...
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on August 07, 2019, 08:01:06 AM
I've been dormant lately due to a pretty heavy work load. Its the agricultural fair this weekend though so I need to prep my charcoal powered tractor. To that end I ground up all my charcoal last night. This is not a hobby if you like to keep your hands clean in fact charcoal gasification people refer to themselves as members of the black hand gang...

When are we going to do the Machinery for a Post-Collapse World video?

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on August 07, 2019, 08:55:01 AM
Dont know. I keep getting interesting projects thrown at me and I'm having trouble saying no... After all the shit of the last 2 years the kitty is feeling the strain. Fall plowing?
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on August 07, 2019, 09:37:23 AM
Dont know. I keep getting interesting projects thrown at me and I'm having trouble saying no... After all the shit of the last 2 years the kitty is feeling the strain. Fall plowing?

Fall plowing sounds good.  When does that go off?

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on August 09, 2019, 02:35:42 PM
Here is a hot restart and a walk around with the new filter...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ksk81s2RCIM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ksk81s2RCIM)

http://www.youtube.com/v/Ksk81s2RCIM
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: azozeo on August 09, 2019, 02:45:05 PM
Here is a hot restart and a walk around with the new filter...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ksk81s2RCIM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ksk81s2RCIM)

http://www.youtube.com/v/Ksk81s2RCIM

sweeeet....... A  :icon_sunny:
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on August 09, 2019, 02:48:35 PM
Here is a hot restart and a walk around with the new filter...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ksk81s2RCIM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ksk81s2RCIM)

http://www.youtube.com/v/Ksk81s2RCIM

I'll use that when we do the Post-Collapse Machinery vid.  :icon_sunny:

RE
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: Nearingsfault on August 11, 2019, 08:03:37 PM
Well the fair went well. Here is a walk around of the tractor as it runs. It was impossible to narrate with the noise. Its currently going to a friend's to bush hog some trails. I'll try for video but its hard to coordinate schedules.

http://www.youtube.com/v/UXJjpo90AJc
Title: Re: Machinery for a post collapse world
Post by: RE on August 11, 2019, 08:20:00 PM
Well the fair went well. Here is a walk around of the tractor as it runs. It was impossible to narrate with the noise. Its currently going to a friend's to bush hog some trails. I'll try for video but its hard to coordinate schedules.

http://www.youtube.com/v/UXJjpo90AJc

I can knock out the sound so you can narrate over it.

RE