Doomstead Diner Menu => Doom Psychology & Philosophy => Topic started by: JRM on February 16, 2017, 08:30:11 AM

Title: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: JRM on February 16, 2017, 08:30:11 AM
Howard Garner's Theory of Multiple Intelligences certainly has its limitations, but I think it's more true than false, in general.

I've been reading about current trauma theory lately, and I'm more and more convinced that it explains much more than we would previously have ever guessed.  It does come down, basically, to biology.  But then it trails off into culture, I think.  We have assembled cultures which are very unconsciously ensuring that most everyone will have a large dose of unresolved trauma.  We have so many filters and blinders on, collectively, around this that it boggles the mind.  (!)

On a personal note, I now know (or, rather, strongly suspect) that the "learning disabilities" I supposedly had as a kid (and I was a bright kid, anyway) were 99% as a  result of a string of unresolved traumas, both acute and relational/developmental.  (I tend to agree with John Holt on "learning disabilities" often being "teaching disabilities" instead.)

If we don't doom ourselves as a species, we will come to understand how vitally crucial knowledge of trauma is to all things human.  And we will then create a culture that is basically safe for humans, so that our potentials will not be so badly damaged.

The problem here is defining exactly what a trauma is, and then why some people are more resilient to traumas than others are. (good example of the use of than rather than then  :icon_sunny:)

Some people go through war zones in childhood or even as an adult and come out OK.  Others end up with PTSD.  Some people have their parents divorce in childhood and it messes them up, others come out OK.  What is trauma and why are some more resilient to it than others are? ???   :icon_scratch:

RE


I'm relatively new to any sort of in depth study of trauma.  But I found this video to be a very helpful introductory overview.  I now have five or six books on the topic, which I'm intending to study for my work (I teach mindfulness meditation, and meditation teachers need to know about this sort of thing because sometimes we have folks get trauma-triggered in our meditation halls.  We need to know how to help them with that).

http://www.youtube.com/v/q6M1FumqeyM


Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: RE on February 16, 2017, 08:53:48 AM
This thread should be on the Psychology board,not the Kitchen Sink.  I will move it.

RE
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: JRM on February 16, 2017, 09:11:20 AM
I almost posted it in Doom Psychology, because it has the word "psychology" in it.  But it also has "doom" in it, and my topic at hand has nothing (directly) to do with doom.
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: RE on February 16, 2017, 09:28:48 AM
I almost posted it in Doom Psychology, because it has the word "psychology" in it.  But it also has "doom" in it, and my topic at hand has nothing (directly) to do with doom.

All Psychology subjects go on this board.  The Forum in general is a Doom forum (this IS the "Doomstead Diner" after all  ::) ), I titled it this way accordingly but it is general for all psychology topics.

RE
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: JRM on February 16, 2017, 09:35:31 AM
RE, you asked about why some folks are more resilient than others, such that they don't get stuck in traumatization and its symptoms and consequences.  That's a good question!  And I don't yet know enough about trauma and psychological resiliency to answer that question well.  I can say what I suspect, at the moment.

I suspect that most people (in our culture) are probably almost always in State 1 or higher in the video, and rarely visit State 0 (zero) in the video, or if they visit it is only briefly.  So there is chronic stress, and this results in lowered cognitive functioning, and probably especially in those areas of their lives which have emotional charge of a sort which is related to this chronic stress.

Being chronically stuck in trough 1 (in the video) is not regarded by the maker of the video as a trauma symptom, per se.  But I'd guess that no one would ever get chronically stuck in that trough if it were not for the presence of unresolved trauma in their bodyminds.

In short, I'd say that those folks who are able to frequently visit state 0 (zero) on the chart will probably be the more resilient folks. Longer visits are probably better than very short ones, too.  But I'd hazard to guess that those who have the least frequent visits to the zero state are holding unresolved trauma, which trauma itself is the very reason they tend not to rise up out of the trough in the direction of zero.

Stress messes with our cognitive functions, which is probably the tie in with many so-called "learning disabilities".  We think much more clearly, and learn better, when relaxed.
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: RE on February 16, 2017, 10:04:41 AM
RE, you asked about why some folks are more resilient than others, such that they don't get stuck in traumatization and its symptoms and consequences.  That's a good question!  And I don't yet know enough about trauma and psychological resiliency to answer that question well.  I can say what I suspect, at the moment.

I suspect that most people (in our culture) are probably almost always in State 1 or higher in the video, and rarely visit State 0 (zero) in the video, or if they visit it is only briefly.  So there is chronic stress, and this results in lowered cognitive functioning, and probably especially in those areas of their lives which have emotional charge of a sort which is related to this chronic stress.

Being chronically stuck in trough 1 (in the video) is not regarded by the maker of the video as a trauma symptom, per se.  But I'd guess that no one would ever get chronically stuck in that trough if it were not for the presence of unresolved trauma in their bodyminds.

In short, I'd say that those folks who are able to frequently visit state 0 (zero) on the chart will probably be the more resilient folks. Longer visits are probably better than very short ones, too.  But I'd hazard to guess that those who have the least frequent visits to the zero state are holding unresolved trauma, which trauma itself is the very reason they tend not to rise up out of the trough in the direction of zero.

Stress messes with our cognitive functions, which is probably the tie in with many so-called "learning disabilities".  We think much more clearly, and learn better, when relaxed.

33 minutes is a pretty long vid to watch.  Can you synopsize these States of 0 & 1 so Diners who do not watch the whole video have a concept of them?

To me, it's a question of compartmentalization.  Some people can compartmentalize and shunt off things which disturb their Wa better than others.  It's another form of intelligence in a way.  If you can't compartmentalize, then trauma tends to affect all aspects of your cognitive functioning. I'm real good at compartmentalization, that's why I can tolerate people like MKing for so long.  I don't let it affect the other areas of my brain, I put it in a box and when I need to analyze it I go into that box, but most of the time it is not part of my consciousness.  It's irrelevant to me.  Same with shit that happened to me in childhood.  I compartmentalize it off and only consider it when necessary.  So it mostly does not bother me or affect my thinking that much.

RE
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: JRM on February 16, 2017, 10:33:46 AM
As it seems to me at the moment, there are two basic kinds of traumatization which people suffer from, which two kinds have much in common.  And yet they are distinct. That is, they also have much which is not in common between them.

One could be called "acute trauma," which are related to singular events or episodes -- such as a car accident, a house fire, a fall, an accident, maybe a violent attack.  The other basic kind is often called relational or developmental trauma, which has a much more interpersonal aspect which relates to our human need for connection and belonging.  Various kinds and degrees of childhood neglect and abuse are involved here, and the damage done is related to what psychologists call "attachment".  The field which seeks to understand all of this is called Interpersonal Neurobiology.

Since attachment is deeply related to survival (especially in infancy and childhood), people tend to experience attachment difficulties as traumatic.

Here's some intro stuff on Interpersonal Neurobiology.:

http://www.youtube.com/v/JeGBhVm13mc

http://www.youtube.com/v/j2osh2wYuqs
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: Eddie on February 16, 2017, 10:37:36 AM
Interesting topic, but I don't have much time to participate. I'll get back to this thread.
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: JRM on February 16, 2017, 10:44:22 AM
33 minutes is a pretty long vid to watch.  Can you synopsize these States of 0 & 1 so Diners who do not watch the whole video have a concept of them?

The video is so excellent -- concise, to the point, with graphics -- that I'd rather not attempt to explain it even more concisely. Therefore, I recommend that anyone not wanting to watch the whole video should watch about the first half. That should be enough to grasp my point about the zero point in relation to the first trough (1) on the graph. 

To me, it's a question of compartmentalization.  Some people can compartmentalize and shunt off things which disturb their Wa better than others.  It's another form of intelligence in a way.  If you can't compartmentalize, then trauma tends to affect all aspects of your cognitive functioning. I'm real good at compartmentalization, that's why I can tolerate people like MKing for so long.  I don't let it affect the other areas of my brain, I put it in a box and when I need to analyze it I go into that box, but most of the time it is not part of my consciousness.  It's irrelevant to me.  Same with shit that happened to me in childhood.  I compartmentalize it off and only consider it when necessary.  So it mostly does not bother me or affect my thinking that much.

RE

Such compartmentalization is a coping strategy, or even a "survival strategy," and as such it can be a useful adaptive strategy.  But like most adaptive strategies we adopted while young to cope, it has its downside, and may even have highly problematic unintended consequences.   It's up to you to decide if it works for you and whether you'd like to explore other options.
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: Eddie on February 16, 2017, 10:55:53 AM
I once took a week long workshop on healing trauma. It's the first long workshop in Skydancing Tantra as taught by Margot Anand and others, what they call LET 1. They borrow a lot from the work of Jack Painter, who is someone I'd bet JRM knows about. And Wilhelm Reich, whose work has fallen out of favor in mainstream psychoanalysis. Western medicine always throws out the baby with the bathwater.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postural_Integration

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Reich


This morning I was actually trying to write a fiction story describing what generally goes by the name of "first chakra work", for men, specifically. That kind of healing practice is completely lacking in our culture. So much so that most people can't even understand what it's all about, and erroneously think it's some kind of weird sexual trip.

That's what happens when you worship God and forget to give the Goddess her due. Abrahamic religions have a problem that way.
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: RE on February 16, 2017, 10:59:34 AM

Such compartmentalization is a coping strategy, or even a "survival strategy," and as such it can be a useful adaptive strategy.  But like most adaptive strategies we adopted while young to cope, it has its downside, and may even have highly problematic unintended consequences.   It's up to you to decide if it works for you and whether you'd like to explore other options.

Well, I can only speak from my own experience on this, but for me it has worked pretty well for 60 years, so I think it is a good strategy.

RE
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: JRM on February 16, 2017, 11:02:03 AM
I once took a week long workshop on healing trauma. It's the first long workshop in Skydancing Tantra as taught by Margot Anand and others, what they call LET 1. They borrow a lot from the work of Jack Painter, who is someone I'd bet JRM knows about. And Wilhelm Reich, whose work has fallen out of favor in mainstream psychoanalysis. Western medicine always throws out the baby with the bathwater.

Actually, the name Jack Painter isn't ringing any bells. Thanks for bringing it up, though. I'll check him out.


This morning I was actually trying to write a fiction story describing what generally goes by the name of "first chakra work", for men, specifically. That kind of healing practice is completely lacking in our culture. So much so that most people can't even understand what it's all about, and erroneously think it's some kind of weird sexual trip.

That's what happens when you worship God and forget to give the Goddess her due. Abrahamic religions have a problem that way.

I'd love to hear much more about this "first chakra work" and your thoughts about it, Eddie.
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: JRM on February 16, 2017, 11:07:13 AM
Eddie, while the name Jack Painter was not lodged in my memory, his Pelvic-Heart Integration was something I bumped into on the internet a little. I know very little about it, however.  I do have some strong hunch that most of us aren't well integrated in that way, for sure!
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: Eddie on February 16, 2017, 11:26:48 AM
I once took a week long workshop on healing trauma. It's the first long workshop in Skydancing Tantra as taught by Margot Anand and others, what they call LET 1. They borrow a lot from the work of Jack Painter, who is someone I'd bet JRM knows about. And Wilhelm Reich, whose work has fallen out of favor in mainstream psychoanalysis. Western medicine always throws out the baby with the bathwater.

Actually, the name Jack Painter isn't ringing any bells. Thanks for bringing it up, though. I'll check him out.


This morning I was actually trying to write a fiction story describing what generally goes by the name of "first chakra work", for men, specifically. That kind of healing practice is completely lacking in our culture. So much so that most people can't even understand what it's all about, and erroneously think it's some kind of weird sexual trip.

That's what happens when you worship God and forget to give the Goddess her due. Abrahamic religions have a problem that way.

I'd love to hear much more about this "first chakra work" and your thoughts about it, Eddie.

Probably not a good topic for the forum. A little too esoteric for most doomers. Reich and then (much later) Painter, though, were the ones who came up with the idea that people suffer pain from what is generally called "somatic holding" which is the memory of old trauma that hasn't been fully processed.
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: JRM on February 16, 2017, 11:37:45 AM
Probably not a good topic for the forum. A little too esoteric for most doomers. Reich and then (much later) Painter, though, were the ones who came up with the idea that people suffer pain from what is generally called "somatic holding" which is the memory of old trauma that hasn't been fully processed.

I know a little more about Reich than Painter. I'll have to look into him some more.

Esoteric or not, could you say more about "first chakra work"? ... and how the Skydancing Tantra do that?  Or link to something on that? (I didn't fine much.)
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: Eddie on February 16, 2017, 11:40:00 AM
An example of somatic holding would be.....

Almost every man, at some point in boyhood, is viciously kicked in the "nads by some bully, usually a sneaky bully who gets in a good one before you even know it's coming.

You never really completely erase that memory of extreme pain. Lying on the floor with the wind knocked out of your sails, probably extremely nauseated and helpless, while the asshole responsible has a good laugh at your expense.

You carry that with you forever, if you're not lucky enough to let it go.
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: RE on February 16, 2017, 11:40:28 AM

Probably not a good topic for the forum. A little too esoteric for most doomers. Reich and then (much later) Painter, though, were the ones who came up with the idea that people suffer pain from what is generally called "somatic holding" which is the memory of old trauma that hasn't been fully processed.

WHAT? Since when is ANY topic not a good topic for Diners to chew on?  ???  :icon_scratch:

Get this one rolling and I am SURE Ka will chip in with some BARField!  Or maybe Coleridge has something to say on the topic? ???  :icon_scratch:

Diners don't like Esoteric Topics?  WHAT?!

"Esoteric" is SYNONYMOUS with "Diner"!

RE
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: RE on February 16, 2017, 11:53:45 AM
An example of somatic holding would be.....

Almost every man, at some point in boyhood, is viciously kicked in the "nads by some bully, usually a sneaky bully who gets in a good one before you even know it's coming.


I have never been kicked in the 'nads by a bully.  Or ever punched in the face either.  As big an asshole as I am, I am astoundingly good at staying out of physical fights.  :icon_sunny:

I have been hit in the 'nads by a baseball (not wearing a cup! ouch!). I have also had my 'nads crunched by gymmies a few times when I was spotting them.  A good gymmie works up a lot of momentum doing consecutive flip-flops, and occassionally a leg or arm goes haywire and this hits the spotter in the wrong spot.  It doesn't feel too good.  You can't believe how much force a 50 lb gymmie puts out doing flip flops, it's astounding.  But is this a TRAUMA I live with all my life and affects all my thinking thereafter?  No, I take a 10 minute break and I get over it.

RE
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: Eddie on February 16, 2017, 11:56:27 AM
First chakra work is a convenient euphemism for pelvic massage, which for men involves the perineum, the prostate, and the scrotum.

Women can get pelvic massage too, and most of them have old trauma held in this area too, maybe more even than men, since many if not most women get raped or sexually abused at some time in their lives.

It isn't just sexual trauma though. People my age were often spanked rather brutally by their parents and teachers, who did this, not out of meanness but out of love, but in a misguided way.

Margot Anand got into this because she found it was difficult to teach most Western people tantric practice, because they were "walking wounded" with a lot of deep, old unhealed wounds.  Even the kind of active meditations they teach (like Quantum Light Breath, for instance) can result in these wounded souls melting down and undergoing scary stuff like spontaneous rebirthing. By taking a week to do healing work first, it made it easier for a lot of people to get to the real tantric practice, which is an entirely different subject than what we're talking about.
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: RE on February 16, 2017, 12:16:43 PM
People my age were often spanked rather brutally by their parents and teachers, who did this, not out of meanness but out of love, but in a misguided way.

I am your age, and I never got spanked either! Obviously, I missed out on a lot of trauma here.

RE
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: g on February 16, 2017, 12:19:11 PM

Probably not a good topic for the forum. A little too esoteric for most doomers. Reich and then (much later) Painter, though, were the ones who came up with the idea that people suffer pain from what is generally called "somatic holding" which is the memory of old trauma that hasn't been fully processed.

WHAT? Since when is ANY topic not a good topic for Diners to chew on?  ???  :icon_scratch:

Get this one rolling and I am SURE Ka will chip in with some BARField!  Or maybe Coleridge has something to say on the topic? ???  :icon_scratch:

Diners don't like Esoteric Topics?  WHAT?!

"Esoteric" is SYNONYMOUS with "Diner"!

RE

Topics like Alan, Roamer, and MKing bring up are usually not welcomed.

China is not Toast. Peak oil was a joke. Diners becoming positive about the future after being on the doom side are scorned and called going to the Dark Side. Roamer and JoeP being a few examples.

Conservative Libertarian ideas are discouraged as well, while Liberal Communist ideas are lauded and applauded.

Folks of the right persuasion are constantly told they are not welcome, that this is a mostly Leftist site. I have been told repeatedly many of my topics would be welcomed elsewhere, that I don't belong here.

Not hating and ridiculing President Trump, let alone liking him is considered sacrilege.

In short there are many topics here that are untouchable unless one wishes to get black balled or marginalized. Topics that are best left alone or to one's self unless the poster is looking for a gang banging by the Owner and his crew.

                                                                                                    Just my two centavos on topics not chewable. 
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: JRM on February 16, 2017, 12:25:21 PM
Well, I certainly was kicked in the nads by a few bullies during my youth, just as Eddie said most of us guys have been.

I'd like to have some pelvic massage!

Unfortunately, most massage therapists aren't trained in, nor qualified for, helping their clients address emotional and psychological trauma as it may appear on their tables.  I'd want to work with someone who knows how to work with that sort of thing.  And I want to be the kind of body-centered meditation teacher who knows how do be intelligently, informedly present with trauma, as it may appear in the meditation hall.  We do a form of mindfulness meditation which is deeply somatic, very body-oriented.  I mostly teach movement meditation, though we do also sit on cushions for part of any given session.

I recently had a student say that she had dissociated during our session.  It was then that I knew (many other indicators over the years!) that I should learn how to help my students by learning more about how trauma may show up in the hall.

I've seen all kinds of fascinating psychological stuff come up for folks during our sessions.  Movement meditation can be very powerful stuff!
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: RE on February 16, 2017, 12:27:20 PM

Probably not a good topic for the forum. A little too esoteric for most doomers. Reich and then (much later) Painter, though, were the ones who came up with the idea that people suffer pain from what is generally called "somatic holding" which is the memory of old trauma that hasn't been fully processed.

WHAT? Since when is ANY topic not a good topic for Diners to chew on?  ???  :icon_scratch:

Get this one rolling and I am SURE Ka will chip in with some BARField!  Or maybe Coleridge has something to say on the topic? ???  :icon_scratch:

Diners don't like Esoteric Topics?  WHAT?!

"Esoteric" is SYNONYMOUS with "Diner"!

RE

Topics like Alan, Roamer, and MKing bring up are usually not welcomed.

China is not Toast. Peak oil was a joke. Diners becoming positive about the future after being on the doom side are scorned and called going to the Dark Side. Roamer and JoeP being a few examples.

Conservative Libertarian ideas are discouraged as well, while Liberal Communist ideas are lauded and applauded.

Folks of the right persuasion are constantly told they are not welcome, that this is a mostly Leftist site. I have been told repeatedly many of my topics would be welcomed elsewhere, that I don't belong here.

Not hating and ridiculing President Trump, let alone liking him is considered sacrilege.

In short there are many topics here that are untouchable unless one wishes to get black balled or marginalized. Topics that are best left alone or to one's self unless the poster is looking for a gang banging by the Owner and his crew.

                                                                                                    Just my two centavos on topics not chewable.

This is a Violation of the CoC.

RE
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: JRM on February 16, 2017, 12:32:33 PM

Probably not a good topic for the forum. A little too esoteric for most doomers. Reich and then (much later) Painter, though, were the ones who came up with the idea that people suffer pain from what is generally called "somatic holding" which is the memory of old trauma that hasn't been fully processed.

WHAT? Since when is ANY topic not a good topic for Diners to chew on?  ???  :icon_scratch:

Get this one rolling and I am SURE Ka will chip in with some BARField!  Or maybe Coleridge has something to say on the topic? ???  :icon_scratch:

Diners don't like Esoteric Topics?  WHAT?!

"Esoteric" is SYNONYMOUS with "Diner"!

RE

Topics like Alan, Roamer, and MKing bring up are usually not welcomed.

China is not Toast. Peak oil was a joke. Diners becoming positive about the future after being on the doom side are scorned and called going to the Dark Side. Roamer and JoeP being a few examples.

Conservative Libertarian ideas are discouraged as well, while Liberal Communist ideas are lauded and applauded.

Folks of the right persuasion are constantly told they are not welcome, that this is a mostly Leftist site. I have been told repeatedly many of my topics would be welcomed elsewhere, that I don't belong here.

Not hating and ridiculing President Trump, let alone liking him is considered sacrilege.

In short there are many topics here that are untouchable unless one wishes to get black balled or marginalized. Topics that are best left alone or to one's self unless the poster is looking for a gang banging by the Owner and his crew.

                                                                                                    Just my two centavos on topics not chewable.


I think we've ALL received a fair bit of flak for our various beliefs, attitudes and persuasions.  The thing is, I value ARGUMENTS -- not in the sense of heated language and name-calling, but in the sense of offering evidence and reasoning in support of various views, political or otherwise.

At least half of the regulars in here are prone, at times, to disregard such argument (evidence, reasons and reasoning), probably because they don't have good arguments in this sense.  If you get flak for Right Libertarian views, it may be because you're skating on thin ice.  Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: RE on February 16, 2017, 12:32:58 PM
Well, I certainly was kicked in the nads by a few bullies over my youth, just as Eddie said most of us guys have been.

Having avoided this, I obviously don't have the trauma associated with it.  This is a deficiency on my part. So I can't relate well to this.  I can only relate to having been kicked in the balls by my gymmies.

RE
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: JRM on February 16, 2017, 12:41:36 PM
Well, I certainly was kicked in the nads by a few bullies over my youth, just as Eddie said most of us guys have been.

Having avoided this, I obviously don't have the trauma associated with it.  This is a deficiency on my part. So I can't relate well to this.  I can only relate to having been kicked in the balls by my gymmies.

RE

You're lucky!

Part of the difficulty getting a handle on "trauma" is that there are an abundance of often contradictory ways of defining it and discussing it.  There are many theories, as well.

I think there are two very different basic meanings people have in mind when using the word trauma, and they are, to my mind, both valid.

One kind of trauma doesn't lead to tramatization in the sense provided in the first video posted in this thread.  The other kind does. 

Both kinds lead to symptoms, but different kinds and degrees of symptoms.

My task is to sort all of this out, somehow.  It takes a lot of reading and listening -- and will probably require a lot of my time over at least a year of time.
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: g on February 16, 2017, 12:47:16 PM

Probably not a good topic for the forum. A little too esoteric for most doomers. Reich and then (much later) Painter, though, were the ones who came up with the idea that people suffer pain from what is generally called "somatic holding" which is the memory of old trauma that hasn't been fully processed.

WHAT? Since when is ANY topic not a good topic for Diners to chew on?  ???  :icon_scratch:

Get this one rolling and I am SURE Ka will chip in with some BARField!  Or maybe Coleridge has something to say on the topic? ???  :icon_scratch:

Diners don't like Esoteric Topics?  WHAT?!

"Esoteric" is SYNONYMOUS with "Diner"!

RE

Topics like Alan, Roamer, and MKing bring up are usually not welcomed.

China is not Toast. Peak oil was a joke. Diners becoming positive about the future after being on the doom side are scorned and called going to the Dark Side. Roamer and JoeP being a few examples.

Conservative Libertarian ideas are discouraged as well, while Liberal Communist ideas are lauded and applauded.

Folks of the right persuasion are constantly told they are not welcome, that this is a mostly Leftist site. I have been told repeatedly many of my topics would be welcomed elsewhere, that I don't belong here.

Not hating and ridiculing President Trump, let alone liking him is considered sacrilege.

In short there are many topics here that are untouchable unless one wishes to get black balled or marginalized. Topics that are best left alone or to one's self unless the poster is looking for a gang banging by the Owner and his crew.

                                                                                                    Just my two centavos on topics not chewable.


I think we've ALL received a fair bit of flak for our various beliefs, attitudes and persuasions.  The thing is, I value ARGUMENTS -- not in the sense of heated language and name-calling, but in the sense of offering evidence and reasoning in support of various views, political or otherwise.

At least half of the regulars in here are prone, at times, to disregard such argument (evidence, reasons and reasoning), probably because they don't have good arguments in this sense.  If you get flak for Right Libertarian views, it may be because you're skating on thin ice.  Just sayin'.

Yes, it could be a number of things JRM. Reasonable Reply.

I do suffer Trauma and pain from it though, no matter what the reason. You left in a great huff with much pain and emotion a while back, claiming you thought you were among friends. It's the same way I get, a betrayed feeling just for being different. I will also strike back with a vengeance and worsen the situation. It's like a punt in the balls to me.

Whatever the case it causes me much Trauma, the topic of discussion, and I am leaving the topic for a while to avoid another painful episode of it.  :-\
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: Eddie on February 16, 2017, 12:51:05 PM
An example of somatic holding would be.....

Almost every man, at some point in boyhood, is viciously kicked in the "nads by some bully, usually a sneaky bully who gets in a good one before you even know it's coming.


I have never been kicked in the 'nads by a bully.  Or ever punched in the face either.  As big an asshole as I am, I am astoundingly good at staying out of physical fights.  :icon_sunny:

I have been hit in the 'nads by a baseball (not wearing a cup! ouch!). I have also had my 'nads crunched by gymmies a few times when I was spotting them.  A good gymmie works up a lot of momentum doing consecutive flip-flops, and occassionally a leg or arm goes haywire and this hits the spotter in the wrong spot.  It doesn't feel too good.  You can't believe how much force a 50 lb gymmie puts out doing flip flops, it's astounding.  But is this a TRAUMA I live with all my life and affects all my thinking thereafter?  No, I take a 10 minute break and I get over it.

RE

Remember way back when I was writing about personality, and I mentioned "physical sexual type" vs. "emotional sexual type"?

You are a high physical, and probably don't hold as much pain in your body as some people. As a gymnast, you learned early to breathe and let go of pain, and not hold it inside. Physicals don't hold pain in as bad as emos do.

I like that 'kicked in the balls" example because it is more than physical trauma. It's usually emotional trauma too, with lots of shame and maybe guilt. I never even realized I was holding on to psychic pain at all, until I explored it with a teacher. It just came up, boom. It's usually not something people are even conscious of, at all.
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: g on February 16, 2017, 12:58:56 PM
Quote
This is a Violation of the CoC.

RE

See what I mean JRM. This is what happens when a topic is brought up honestly and sincerely. The big dog starts barking that it's not to his liking, and the puppies soon start barking as well or remain silent. Fighting back lands you in Jail or post censorship. Two posts ago he was telling everyone that all topics are chewable by Diners.  :icon_scratch: ::)


                                                      http://www.youtube.com/v/VFCM6TZgTMI?ecver=2
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: JRM on February 16, 2017, 01:01:00 PM
Getting kicked in the nads as a kid in the schoolyard will certainly leave a lasting effect.  But it isn't likely to have the same kind or degree of a lasting effect as to have gotten into a bad car accident in which there was a fire and one was badly burned along with one's child. This happened to one of my students, which predisposed her to dissociating in our meditation hall during a session.

Now I have to get a handle on these distinctions.  Hmmm....  I know, without a doubt, that traumas which seem to the traumatized person to be life-threatening cause a different kind and degree of symptoms than being punched or kicked by a bully (most of the time) ... UNLESS the one being threatened or harmed by a bully feels that his or her life is at stake.  And even then, much depends on how we handle that experience immediately afterward.

According to Peter Levine, founder of the Somatic Experiencing approach to trauma therapy, all mammals will shake immediately after a traumatic event -- except humans, who only sometimes shake in this powerful, involuntary way.  We're supposed to shake in this way, 'cause we're mammals, but we often don't.  We inhibit that process -- often because we've been discouraged from doing what comes naturally.

In the below video, we can observe this shaking at minute 2:05.

https://vimeo.com/89958115   -- I tried embedding this video, but it failed.

Levine says that if we don't allow ourselves to shake in this way after a traumatic event, we are at serious risk of PTSD.
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: JRM on February 16, 2017, 01:22:46 PM
I like that 'kicked in the balls" example because it is more than physical trauma. It's usually emotional trauma too, with lots of shame and maybe guilt. I never even realized I was holding on to psychic pain at all, until I explored it with a teacher. It just came up, boom. It's usually not something people are even conscious of, at all.

I almost mentioned this earlier, but chose not to. But now I will.

When we are deliberately kicked in the balls by someone, that's got a whole extra component to it which isn't there if it was done accidentally, as by a "gymmie," as per RE's experience.   And so it will likely have a lasting residue as an experience -- because it involves that interpersonal component.

We're all so used to thinking of psychological trauma as any experience which has left some kind of "emotional scar".  In that sense, when a boyfriend or girlfriend suddenly says "Hey, I'm done here. I don't want to do this relationship thing with you any longer," well, that will have left a scar of some kind, most likely.  But it probably won't feel life-threatening to most folks, and so won't leave the same kind or degree of scar as life-threatening experiences.

More and more people these days are wanting to distinguish the old sense of "trauma" from a new sense in which "traumatization" has a more restricted technical sense.  It's this which I need to get a handle on, somehow.  I suppose it has something to do with crossing the zero (0) line presented in the video in the opening post here, where states 3 and 4 occur. 

I have so much to learn!  Sigh.
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: g on February 16, 2017, 01:35:56 PM
I like that 'kicked in the balls" example because it is more than physical trauma. It's usually emotional trauma too, with lots of shame and maybe guilt. I never even realized I was holding on to psychic pain at all, until I explored it with a teacher. It just came up, boom. It's usually not something people are even conscious of, at all.

I almost mentioned this earlier, but chose not to. But now I will.

When we are deliberately kicked in the balls by someone, that's got a whole extra component to it which isn't there if it was done accidentally, as by a "gymmie," as per RE's experience.   And so it will likely have a lasting residue as an experience -- because it involves that interpersonal component.

We're all so used to thinking of psychological trauma as any experience which has left some kind of "emotional scar".  In that sense, when a boyfriend or girlfriend suddenly says "Hey, I'm done here. I don't want to do this relationship thing with you any longer," well, that will have left a scar of some kind, most likely.  But it probably won't feel life-threatening to most folks, and so won't leave the same kind or degree of scar as life-threatening experiences.

More and more people these days are wanting to distinguish the old sense of "trauma" from a new sense in which "traumatization" has a more restricted technical sense.  It's this which I need to get a handle on, somehow.  I suppose it has something to do with crossing the zero (0) line presented in the video in the opening post here, where states 3 and 4 occur. 

I have so much to learn!  Sigh.

I'm surprised the accent is on the physical so much. Always thought trauma was more of a mental long term pain, or is anguish a more proper word for that?
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: JRM on February 16, 2017, 02:04:23 PM
I like that 'kicked in the balls" example because it is more than physical trauma. It's usually emotional trauma too, with lots of shame and maybe guilt. I never even realized I was holding on to psychic pain at all, until I explored it with a teacher. It just came up, boom. It's usually not something people are even conscious of, at all.

I almost mentioned this earlier, but chose not to. But now I will.

When we are deliberately kicked in the balls by someone, that's got a whole extra component to it which isn't there if it was done accidentally, as by a "gymmie," as per RE's experience.   And so it will likely have a lasting residue as an experience -- because it involves that interpersonal component.

We're all so used to thinking of psychological trauma as any experience which has left some kind of "emotional scar".  In that sense, when a boyfriend or girlfriend suddenly says "Hey, I'm done here. I don't want to do this relationship thing with you any longer," well, that will have left a scar of some kind, most likely.  But it probably won't feel life-threatening to most folks, and so won't leave the same kind or degree of scar as life-threatening experiences.

More and more people these days are wanting to distinguish the old sense of "trauma" from a new sense in which "traumatization" has a more restricted technical sense.  It's this which I need to get a handle on, somehow.  I suppose it has something to do with crossing the zero (0) line presented in the video in the opening post here, where states 3 and 4 occur. 

I have so much to learn!  Sigh.

I'm surprised the accent is on the physical so much. Always thought trauma was more of a mental long term pain, or is anguish a more proper word for that?

Well, that's the very interesting thing!  Mind (psyche) and body (soma) are entirely intertwined.  To touch one is to touch the other.  To inflict harm on one is to inflict harm on the other.  To nourish one is to nourish the other -- up to a point, in various senses.

On one level, what we call psychological trauma is a particular kind of change in the nervous system, as well as the other bodily systems which tie in with the nervous system -- such as the various glands which secrete stress hormones.

I'm new to this study, but my early sense of things is that when we have unresolved psychological trauma we are are much more likely to live in a perpetual state of heightened arousal of the kind which relates to the fight or flight mechanisms in the body -- or stress.  That's as much a biological process as one we may call "mental" -- no, even more so!, since changing our conscious mind will not get at the very non-conscious biological processes involved.

The whole field of trauma science has been revolutionized in recent decades, and we're all playing catch up now.  Brain imaging technologies have really upended a lot of commonly held assumptions in the field.
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: Eddie on February 16, 2017, 02:31:08 PM
Getting kicked in the nads as a kid in the schoolyard will certainly leave a lasting effect.  But it isn't likely to have the same kind or degree of a lasting effect as to have gotten into a bad car accident in which there was a fire and one was badly burned along with one's child. This happened to one of my students, which predisposed her to dissociating in our meditation hall during a session.

Now I have to get a handle on these distinctions.  Hmmm....  I know, without a doubt, that traumas which seem to the traumatized person to be life-threatening cause a different kind and degree of symptoms than being punched or kicked by a bully (most of the time) ... UNLESS the one being threatened or harmed by a bully feels that his or her life is at stake.  And even then, much depends on how we handle that experience immediately afterward.

According to Peter Levine, founder of the Somatic Experiencing approach to trauma therapy, all mammals will shake immediately after a traumatic event -- except humans, who only sometimes shake in this powerful, involuntary way.  We're supposed to shake in this way, 'cause we're mammals, but we often don't.  We inhibit that process -- often because we've been discouraged from doing what comes naturally.

In the below video, we can observe this shaking at minute 2:05.

https://vimeo.com/89958115 (https://vimeo.com/89958115)   -- I tried embedding this video, but it failed.

Levine says that if we don't allow ourselves to shake in this way after a traumatic event, we are at serious risk of PTSD.

That's very interesting. I'd say your burn victim is an extreme example of EXACTLY the kind of trauma that people hold inside. Think about it. First you have the accident, BANG. Then your'e burning, in excruciating pain. And your kid is in pain and you can't do a damn thing about that except maybe watch in horror.

Yep, that's some very serious trauma. You won't be able to cure that, I'm afraid. But working through it with a therapist who understands somatic pain would be useful for her.

Ever try the Quantum Light Breath? It's wonderful. I highly recommend it.

http://yourfriendinspirit.blogspot.com/2007/11/quantum-light-breath.html (http://yourfriendinspirit.blogspot.com/2007/11/quantum-light-breath.html)

Scroll down and click on the link to the original Jeru version. Well worth 90 minutes of your time.

A lot of tantric meditation is movement meditation, aimed at opening all your chakras and raising Kundalini energy. Frankly, I get more out of QLB.

Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: JRM on February 16, 2017, 02:48:27 PM
Yep, that's some very serious trauma. You won't be able to cure that, I'm afraid. But working through it with a therapist who understands somatic pain would be useful for her.

I'm not a psychotherapist.  And I'm not a trauma specialist.  I am very clear with my meditation students about this. If they are in need of such specialist help, I direct them to a specialist with the proper credentials.  The student I mentioned was already in trauma therapy with a specialist before she had come to my classes. Thank heaven!  When she shared that she had dissociated in our session, I already was aware of her trauma history.

What I'm endeavoring to do now is to become a much more well-informed meditation teacher, with regard to trauma.  Nothing more or less.  This study is already transforming how I see and understand my work.  But I have proper humility about where I'm at in my learning about trauma. I'm new to that. No bones about it.
More and more people who teach yoga, somatics practices and meditation are becoming "trauma sensitive" teachers.  I want to be a part of that unfolding.

Ever try the Quantum Light Breath? It's wonderful. I highly recommend it.

http://yourfriendinspirit.blogspot.com/2007/11/quantum-light-breath.html (http://yourfriendinspirit.blogspot.com/2007/11/quantum-light-breath.html)

Scroll down and click on the link to the original Jeru version. Well worth 90 minutes of your time.

I'll look into it.  Odds are I will have already done something very like it, but perhaps by another name.  There are lots of common principles underlying all which is effective.

Some here may find this video of interest:

Peter Levine's Secret to Releasing Trauma from the Body
http://www.youtube.com/v/s1RnTipiU_Q
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: JRM on February 16, 2017, 03:36:43 PM
Right near the top of the opening post in this thread I posted a quote from the original thread from which this one sprung. I quoted myself, saying "We have so many filters and blinders on, collectively, around this that it boggles the mind.  (!)"

So it was interesting when Eddie mentioned his belief that MOST, not a few, but MOST of us guys got kicked in the nuts by a bully at some point in their young lives. I would add that we were likely bullied in lots of other ways, besides.  And I've often wondered ... Why? What is it that causes a vast majority of us to be bullied by other boys when we are boys?  What is at the root of bullying?

I've long suspected (though I can't say I know) that much of the bullying perpetrated by boys against other boys is the acting out of an unspoken, and thus largely unconcious, cultural script about maleness and masculinity.  If the salient portion of that script, which I have in mind, were to be made explicit in words it might say
"Boys must become men, and they must become men by becoming "tough," meaning insensitive".  It is the sensitive boy which tends to get the most bullying, after all.  Sensitivity is regarded as "feminine" -- and so this is all gender role training at bottom.  At least that's been my speculative hypothesis for many years.

Related to all of this is the very ancient habit of preparing men to become warriors, to do battle against other men -- to the death.  A sensitive person will find such
struggles to the death nearly (or entirely) impossible.  So the "script" goes deeper, and if made explicit in words might also say, "Us guys owe it to one another to beat the femininity (sensitivity) out of boys, thus making them men -- which means that we are making them warriors.

Even when men are not at literal war with one another, they tend to be in figurative war with one another -- in the battlefield of business, politics, mate-selection, and so forth.

But the deeper point I'm making here is that this is socialization, not "human nature," per se.   
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: JRM on February 16, 2017, 03:42:12 PM
I just realized I forgot to finish my thought.  To do so I'd have to tie in the quote:  "We have so many filters and blinders on, collectively, around this that it boggles the mind.  (!)"

I suspect that when we BELIEVE the messages in the unspoken script I mention, the result is that we can't see it as a mere script, subject to change.  We then mistake it for "just how boys are".  We take it to be perfectly natural and normal, even though the evidence is to the contrary.  For not all cultures have or have had this script, and those cultures did not involve such a nearly ubiquitous cruelty of boys against other boys.

In some cultures, boys are allowed to retain their sensitivity, which is not seen as weakness or frailty.
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: Palloy2 on February 16, 2017, 04:05:08 PM
I'm probably going to find this thread too esoteric, but I can see one important thing which hasn't been mentioned yet - when the trauma occurs at an early age, say before 3 years old, when the brain hasn't developed any coping strategies yet, it is going to leave its mark one way or another. 

We are all familiar with "brain maps", those diagrams which show which areas of the brain surface deal with which mental functions.  Isn't it surprising how everybody's brain turns out to have the same map? - to which the response is that they don't, quite.  There must be a developmental plan, presumably programmed into the DNA, and if the plan is not disrupted, you turn out "normal".  But if the plan is disrupted, and your coping strategy isn't working, you end up with the layout of the brain map "wrong".  How wrong is very difficult to say, it's certainly not uni-dimensional.

Anyway Prof Asperger noticed some young kids who showed common symptoms of not engaging in communication normally, like the majority of their cohort.  They were clearly somewhat like Autistic kids, who really stick out behaviorally, and so that got labeled Asperger's Syndrome.

The more carefully you watch for kids diverging from "the plan", the more you can see this happening, although getting the very early steps right results in a more "normal" personality.  This gives rise to the label Asperger's Spectrum, although that makes it sound like the problem is uni-dimensional, when in fact there are many interdependent aspects to the plan that occur in parallel.

So although people affected by Asperger's Spectrum Disorder can turn out different in a wide variety of ways, and can seemingly all cope well enough that they don't have to be "looked after" in life, they are nevertheless not "normal". 

One common characteristic is that they tend to be loners - they don't get as much pleasure out of just being with people.  How many times times have you heard someone say "I enjoy my job as a shop assistant because I enjoy meeting new people." ?  I don't ever spend a second on thinking about shop assistants, they are just faceless entities one has to deal with in the mundane process of shopping - worth a "Thank you" at the end, but that's all.

Another is a lack of proper respect for your boss, and other authority figures.  You are not supposed to speak out on something which reflects badly on your boss, especially if it is in front of HIS boss, even if it is true.  This is labeled "Oppositional Defiance Disorder", and you are a "difficult" person.

Another is feeling more at home with computer programming, the cold hard logic of Logic - I was amazed when I heard on the radio that there is an acknowledgement of this in Silicon Valley.  They have realized that some people with "difficult personalities" make fantastic programmers if you don't put them in an open plan roomful of programmers, but let them have their own office, where they can keep the door shut.

Obviously the above all applies to me, but can anyone else here recognise some of those aspects in themselves?   ::)

It might also be extrapolated from that that preferring to have conversations on the Diner, as opposed to face to face at a bar, selects for a certain type of personality.  Conversations are presented in themed threads, even though they may wander dramatically.  And what is written stays on the record and can be quoted back at people.  All very satisfying to a tidy mind. 

Here I was going to pull up a quote, but I can't find it because I split the thread and somebody else moved it somewhere else.  But paraphrasing, 'Palloy is clearly an intelligent asshole (Thank you) but is still an asshole (I really haven't the least idea what you mean)'.

We certainly have I higher than normal proportion of loners and difficult personalities (assholes) here at the Diner, as you might expect from the above.  I suppose we have to just live with the assholes.  (RE would stick a "LOL" on the end of that, but I never find his flippancy worth laughing out loud over, and he thinks I never make jokes at all, which means he doesn't recognise my sense of humour.  Oh well.)

Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: azozeo on February 16, 2017, 04:10:17 PM
Thoughts are electric.
Emotions are magnetic.

Journaling is the remedy. It releases the emotional manifestations to the paper ...
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: JRM on February 16, 2017, 04:39:47 PM
This is labeled "Oppositional Defiance Disorder" [ODD], and you are a "difficult" person.

While the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders may have some virtues, I think it has at least as many shortcomings.  It is compiled and revised by people with a lot of biases, after all.  One such bias is the context-striped item on the list of bases for diagnosis of ODD: "5. Often actively defies or refuses to comply with requests from authority figures or with rules."

That item can also -- to my  mind -- be understood as a "symptom" of extraordinary mental health.  Such people are much less likely to go along with an authoritarian regime, or social atmosphere in which some ugly form of group-think has set in.  After all, authorities should not be blindly followed, with their every command dutifully obeyed.

Highly obedient people allowed a nut like Adolf Hitler stir up the mass murder of millions of people, after all.  And that's just one item in a very long list of craziness resulting from blind obedience to authority / authorities.

I find the presence of ODD in that book as an embarrassing moment in the annals of the mental health profession.

Some "rules" should be followed -- such as not running red lights at traffic intersections.  Others should be disobeyed on the basis of good sense, reason, and ethics.

I suppose if someone is breaking all rules on the basis of a general contempt for all rules, they are probably a little off their rockers, however. 
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: luciddreams on February 16, 2017, 05:39:44 PM

Some "rules" should be followed -- such as not running red lights at traffic intersections.  Others should be disobeyed on the basis of good sense, reason, and ethics.


That is why I got myself kicked out of the Navy.  I felt I was doing the right thing by no longer participating.  I did not care what the consequences were. 

Also, I've read this entire thread, and I did watch the original 30 something minute video.  I found the information to be interesting.  I've studied the nervous system, so much of it I knew already intuitively I think.  The simple brief explanation of it is that we evolved big brains on top of survival programming.  Our big brains confuse the signals and can perpetuate a special kind of physical hell that necessitates a mental hell.  The four precise stages of the autonomic response was new to me. 

I'd say when I was on restriction, getting kicked out of the Navy after 9/11, and I ended up on solitary confinement/bread and water, while I was in that cell I was probably at the fourth stage.  Then there was the trauma of hearing my neighboring ship mate in the cell next to me lose his fucking shit and start banging his head against our common cinder block wall.  I heard the repetitive thud, thud of his head, and he was singing a Pink Floyd song, but I can't remember what one (might as well have been The Wall).  I watched through the little slit window in my cell door as they dragged his bloody ass off kicking and screaming.  I never saw or heard from him again.  It was an autonomic, sympathetic, claustrophobic clusterfuck in that cell.  Luckily I had studied Buddhism at sea to keep myself somewhat sane while we were bombing Afghanistan.  So while I was in solitary I just went to a zen place and rode it out. 
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: azozeo on February 16, 2017, 05:49:44 PM

Some "rules" should be followed -- such as not running red lights at traffic intersections.  Others should be disobeyed on the basis of good sense, reason, and ethics.


That is why I got myself kicked out of the Navy.  I felt I was doing the right thing by no longer participating.  I did not care what the consequences were. 

Also, I've read this entire thread, and I did watch the original 30 something minute video.  I found the information to be interesting.  I've studied the nervous system, so much of it I knew already intuitively I think.  The simple brief explanation of it is that we evolved big brains on top of survival programming.  Our big brains confuse the signals and can perpetuate a special kind of physical hell that necessitates a mental hell.  The four precise stages of the autonomic response was new to me. 

I'd say when I was on restriction, getting kicked out of the Navy after 9/11, and I ended up on solitary confinement/bread and water, while I was in that cell I was probably at the fourth stage.  Then there was the trauma of hearing my neighboring ship mate in the cell next to me lose his fucking shit and start banging his head against our common cinder block wall.  I heard the repetitive thud, thud of his head, and he was singing a Pink Floyd song, but I can't remember what one (might as well have been The Wall).  I watched through the little slit window in my cell door as they dragged his bloody ass off kicking and screaming.  I never saw or heard from him again.  It was an autonomic, sympathetic, claustrophobic clusterfuck in that cell.  Luckily I had studied Buddhism at sea to keep myself somewhat sane while we were bombing Afghanistan.  So while I was in solitary I just went to a zen place and rode it out.


good job LD...  :icon_sunny:

The answer always lies inward.  Intention is powerful, use it wisely !
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: luciddreams on February 16, 2017, 05:55:51 PM
I'm probably going to find this thread too esoteric, but I can see one important thing which hasn't been mentioned yet - when the trauma occurs at an early age, say before 3 years old, when the brain hasn't developed any coping strategies yet, it is going to leave its mark one way or another. 

We are all familiar with "brain maps", those diagrams which show which areas of the brain surface deal with which mental functions.  Isn't it surprising how everybody's brain turns out to have the same map? - to which the response is that they don't, quite.  There must be a developmental plan, presumably programmed into the DNA, and if the plan is not disrupted, you turn out "normal".  But if the plan is disrupted, and your coping strategy isn't working, you end up with the layout of the brain map "wrong".  How wrong is very difficult to say, it's certainly not uni-dimensional.

Anyway Prof Asperger noticed some young kids who showed common symptoms of not engaging in communication normally, like the majority of their cohort.  They were clearly somewhat like Autistic kids, who really stick out behaviorally, and so that got labeled Asperger's Syndrome.

The more carefully you watch for kids diverging from "the plan", the more you can see this happening, although getting the very early steps right results in a more "normal" personality.  This gives rise to the label Asperger's Spectrum, although that makes it sound like the problem is uni-dimensional, when in fact there are many interdependent aspects to the plan that occur in parallel.

I've long been interested to see if there is some type of correlation with Aspies and their early childhood development.  I've wondered if there is some common trauma that occurs to them.  I've also read that one of the leading theories is that it's passed on by the father.  My father had two sons, me and my half brother (who is a classic case).  My father is either an Aspie or a Narcissist, I've been unable to tell because it can be difficult to tease out the difference at times since Aspie behavior can appear to be narcissistic. 

Quote
So although people affected by Asperger's Spectrum Disorder can turn out different in a wide variety of ways, and can seemingly all cope well enough that they don't have to be "looked after" in life, they are nevertheless not "normal". 

I think we learn how to parrot normal behavior and get by in the world.  But I also think that Aspergers can easily get in the way of a successful life.  It has in my case, at least by societies standards. 



Quote
Another is a lack of proper respect for your boss, and other authority figures.  You are not supposed to speak out on something which reflects badly on your boss, especially if it is in front of HIS boss, even if it is true.  This is labeled "Oppositional Defiance Disorder", and you are a "difficult" person.

There is a common type of Aspie personality (this is my type), the "moral police officer."  Nothing will stand in the way of me pointing out you are an idiot if you are acting like an idiot.  Mostly I don't care who you are.  I try to be tactful. 

Quote
Another is feeling more at home with computer programming, the cold hard logic of Logic - I was amazed when I heard on the radio that there is an acknowledgement of this in Silicon Valley.  They have realized that some people with "difficult personalities" make fantastic programmers if you don't put them in an open plan roomful of programmers, but let them have their own office, where they can keep the door shut.

I don't do computer programming, but I get the logic and why it's comfortable.  I made an awesome EMT because I lacked emotional empathy for my patients.  Which is an important difference between somebody with aspergers and socio/psychopaths.  By that I mean a sociopath has no empathy at all.  I have empathy, but I don't experience it emotionally.  I experience that empathy intellectually.  Hence, the cost on my soul for killing all of those innocent Afghanis. 



Quote
It might also be extrapolated from that that preferring to have conversations on the Diner, as opposed to face to face at a bar, selects for a certain type of personality.  Conversations are presented in themed threads, even though they may wander dramatically.  And what is written stays on the record and can be quoted back at people.  All very satisfying to a tidy mind. 

Socializing on a forum provides all of the mental stimulation with next to none of the in person emotional and unspoken communication.  Aspies do not pick up well on the unspoken, we miss the cues, and it makes shit complicated.  Here, on this forum, it's all just words which are strictly logic.  And, most importantly, we can socialize while actually being alone, behind a closed door.  Which is why they say when you put somebody with Aspergers behind a closed door they no longer have aspergers. 

Quote
Here I was going to pull up a quote, but I can't find it because I split the thread and somebody else moved it somewhere else.  But paraphrasing, 'Palloy is clearly an intelligent asshole (Thank you) but is still an asshole (I really haven't the least idea what you mean)'.

I called you an asshole because of the shit you were giving me about misspelling words.  I was at the tale end of catching shit for it all day and I'd had enough.  You were being an asshole, I'm an asshole everyday, our head honcho is a complete asshole...and?

Quote
We certainly have I higher than normal proportion of loners and difficult personalities (assholes) here at the Diner, as you might expect from the above.  I suppose we have to just live with the assholes.  (RE would stick a "LOL" on the end of that, but I never find his flippancy worth laughing out loud over, and he thinks I never make jokes at all, which means he doesn't recognise my sense of humour.  Oh well.)

I like the emotocons because it's a way I can be emotional without being emotional.  It also allows for better nuance via this medium of communication.  It can, for instance, help clarify that your sarcastic ass may be joking.  If not it can be easy to not understand somebody. 

This is where I'm not a typical Aspie.  I understand faces very well.  I can read them.  And so I have learned to compute some unspoken emotional communication just by understanding that when the face does x it means y...or whatever the fuck it means.  My point being I've learned to read faces and body language to help me camouflage my social deficits. 

Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: azozeo on February 16, 2017, 06:00:54 PM
Your intending your 6th sense into the mix. Clair-audience, Clairvoyance and the like will
be more readily available in these new energies we're experiencing.
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: JRM on February 16, 2017, 06:07:39 PM
I'd say when I was on restriction, getting kicked out of the Navy after 9/11, and I ended up on solitary confinement/bread and water, while I was in that cell I was probably at the fourth stage.  Then there was the trauma of hearing my neighboring ship mate in the cell next to me lose his fucking shit and start banging his head against our common cinder block wall.  I heard the repetitive thud, thud of his head, and he was singing a Pink Floyd song, but I can't remember what one (might as well have been The Wall).  I watched through the little slit window in my cell door as they dragged his bloody ass off kicking and screaming.  I never saw or heard from him again.  It was an autonomic, sympathetic, claustrophobic clusterfuck in that cell.  Luckily I had studied Buddhism at sea to keep myself somewhat sane while we were bombing Afghanistan.  So while I was in solitary I just went to a zen place and rode it out.

Oh, man!  All of that was traumatic, indeed!  I'm so sorry you had to go through all of that my brother.
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: luciddreams on February 16, 2017, 06:11:36 PM
I'd say when I was on restriction, getting kicked out of the Navy after 9/11, and I ended up on solitary confinement/bread and water, while I was in that cell I was probably at the fourth stage.  Then there was the trauma of hearing my neighboring ship mate in the cell next to me lose his fucking shit and start banging his head against our common cinder block wall.  I heard the repetitive thud, thud of his head, and he was singing a Pink Floyd song, but I can't remember what one (might as well have been The Wall).  I watched through the little slit window in my cell door as they dragged his bloody ass off kicking and screaming.  I never saw or heard from him again.  It was an autonomic, sympathetic, claustrophobic clusterfuck in that cell.  Luckily I had studied Buddhism at sea to keep myself somewhat sane while we were bombing Afghanistan.  So while I was in solitary I just went to a zen place and rode it out.

Oh, man!  All of that was traumatic, indeed!  I'm so sorry you had to go through all of that my brother.

Thanks.  Unfortunately I did it to myself by enlisting myself into the US Navy.  That is the tip of the iceberg as well.  It got much worse than that while I was on restriction.  Honestly, I was happier locked in that cell on bread and water than I was at sea standing watch 10 feet away from the core of the reactor while we were bombing Afghanistan. 
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: JRM on February 16, 2017, 06:19:57 PM
There is a simple set of physical exercises, called TREŽ -- Tension and Trauma Releasing Exercises -- which actually initiate an involuntary shaking response of the kind which humans should normally have immediately following a traumatic experience, once basic safety is achieved.

I've done these exercises myself a few times, and each time I've initiated the involuntary shaking response.  Advocates of TRE say that merely doing these exercises and experiencing the shaking will lower the amount of trauma which is lodged in the nervous system.  I strongly suspect this is so, though I'm not sure the exercises will necessarily go as deep and far as they will when combined with other forms of therapy.

The good news about these exercises is that they are simple, easy, and readily learned with a minimum of effort.  Another bit of good news is that it does not seem to be necessary to consciously deal with the traumatic memories associated, since the whole event happens well under the level of conscious awareness, in the nervous system itself.

I recommend "googling" the name of the exercises and exploring.  You can learn all you need about it online, I believe -- though I did the exercises in a class, myself.
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: g on February 16, 2017, 07:41:43 PM


                                                    (https://media.mutualart.com/Images/2016_11/07/14/141312443/cc73569a-9c69-47cb-9e9d-5e104c0c70d9.Jpeg)

                                                    Trauma

      By Zeng Fanzhi   2007
Title: Re: Trauma (psychological)
Post by: JRM on March 01, 2017, 07:17:57 PM
Listening to The Land Saves My Life
Will Falk
http://willfalk.org/listening-to-the-land-saves-my-life (http://willfalk.org/listening-to-the-land-saves-my-life)