Messages

1

Knarfs Knewz / Re: Knarf's Knewz Channel

« on: January 16, 2021, 01:56:35 AM »

Hoping you and your family are safe and well.

Just today do I see confirmation I can get my clinical staff vaccinated through what I’d call routine channels. The local medical society is offering the dental society members and their staffs to vaccinate at their hub. Some 4 of us have been able to get the vaccine already by “other means”. None of us has gotten the booster yet. I’m taking Ivermectin.But social distancing in the office has worked. I actually prefer not having people wait in the waiting room.....much quieter this way.

Thanks for that. Half my immediate family have got their first shot of the vaccine. They got it due to being frontline NHS workers. As for social distancing it certainly has an effect in reducing rates. The problem is in highly congested places like London where a good chunk of people use public transport it is not enough. Before tier 4 (which is really national lockdown measures or perhaps as you would call it stay at home orders but just for the local area) we were on tier 3 where social distancing in shops was maintained plus all bars/clubs shut and restuarants were only opened for takeaways. Despite those measures in place we saw exponential growth in covid rates with areas such as Essex and London getting rates as high as 1 in 50 people having the virus at any given time.

It would seem that outside the summer months whenever there has not been actual lockdown measures R values have tended to exceed 1. Now if we had no social distancing then I would expect R rates to be much closer to the natural level. That never happened and I believe social distancing has the biggest impact in reducing rates outside of lockdowns. The problem that can occur though is social distancing by itself may not be enough if other factors are not working for you. Most people in Europe practice social distancing (with masks) and look what happened to the rates in the last few months. The overall point I am trying to make is we should think there is a one size fits all solution. Different countries have differing rates of compliance with measures, population density varies, mode of transport can vary also (do people use cars or public transport as the primary means of movement), proximity to airports particularly international travel, prevailing weather conditions, local variants in the area etc. Once we take all those factors into account then we make solutions that will be relevant. What works with Sweden might work in Norway but not Paris. New Zealand and Australia do well but are relatively isolated compared to most of mainland Europe and even the US so their strategies are not practical to adopt.

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Knarfs Knewz / Re: Knarf's Knewz Channel

« on: January 15, 2021, 02:49:10 PM »

There is also the problem that both sweden and South Korea are extremely socially cohesive countries with really good public health care systems and a population that tends to listen to its government's suggestions. I think that makes a difference. We have done ok with a combination approach here. It has not been perfect but it was done decisively. It's a war, mistakes get made and are easy to tear apart on the internet when you dont have to answer to anyone.

Sweden also has a much lower population density than UK, France, Germany and Italy making transmission easier to control. In addition Sweden has the largest percentage of single person household in Europe. They also have a propensity towards large personal spaces meaning their environment and culture are more conductive to limiting spread. Most countries cannot simply adopt the Swedish strategy and hope for the same outcome because most countries do not have these same properties. It should also be noted that compared to other Scandinavian countries Sweden has performed poorly when you look at the number of cases and deaths. The Swedish option sounds appealing because on surface it is the option that doesn't seem to require effort or sacrifice. In places like London with high population denisty and high use of public transport it would be a disaster even if we had better hospitals than Sweden which we don't. Could possibly work in Alaska but do people in Alaskans have the discipline of Swedes?

I like how everyone country that does relatively well without lockdowns is just "more disciplined" or "better listeners" or yadda yadda. Basically you guys are saying, no matter what scientific studies are done, no matter how much data is collected to do rigorous comparative studies, you will never believe that massive lockdowns were not necessary and do not continue to be necessary. It will never happen. WHY is that?

It's easy to say "mistakes get made" (nearingsfault) in "war" when you are not one of the wedding parties getting drone striked. That's the logic former presidents use while they are on book tours. We should have a higher standard for ourselves.

What I was trying to say was that the causes for rates of transmission is multi-factorial. One of the big factors for transmission is population density. Areas with less population density will consistenly have lower rates of transmission than built up areas. Because of this what works in Sweden may not work in New York city as densities are a lot different. This is even if we consider similar behaviour patterns. Also the study you sighted stated lockdowns MAY not have a significant effect. It was not certain about its conclusions. What has consistently been seen is when lockdowns are initiated the R-values and cases drop. This has always applied in England and I have seen this also happen in other European countries.

The other variable that I am not sure the study considered is the different variants of Covid-19 and the time of year. In the summer perhaps lockdowns are less effective as people spend more time outdoors whereas in the winter people stay indoors where ventilation is poorer resulting in greater transmission. In any case the rates have shot up in the UK since about December which could be attributed to the new variant. Cases showed a continual rise and only really got stable when an area either initiated tier-4 measures (local lockdowns) or there was a national lockdown. Was this a coincendence? I doubt it very much seeing as this has not only happened in several instances in England but also in other countries. Like I said before when you compare Sweden to its neighbours, which share more characteristics to Sweden, the country has performed relatively poorly in terms of case loads and death rates. Those other neighbours all followed strict lockdown measures. 

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Knarfs Knewz / Re: Knarf's Knewz Channel

« on: January 15, 2021, 12:10:42 PM »

There is also the problem that both sweden and South Korea are extremely socially cohesive countries with really good public health care systems and a population that tends to listen to its government's suggestions. I think that makes a difference. We have done ok with a combination approach here. It has not been perfect but it was done decisively. It's a war, mistakes get made and are easy to tear apart on the internet when you dont have to answer to anyone.

Sweden also has a much lower population density than UK, France, Germany and Italy making transmission easier to control. In addition Sweden has the largest percentage of single person household in Europe. They also have a propensity towards large personal spaces meaning their environment and culture are more conductive to limiting spread. Most countries cannot simply adopt the Swedish strategy and hope for the same outcome because most countries do not have these same properties. It should also be noted that compared to other Scandinavian countries Sweden has performed poorly when you look at the number of cases and deaths. The Swedish option sounds appealing because on surface it is the option that doesn't seem to require effort or sacrifice. In places like London with high population denisty and high use of public transport it would be a disaster even if we had better hospitals than Sweden which we don't. Could possibly work in Alaska but do people in Alaskans have the discipline of Swedes?

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Knarfs Knewz / Re: 70 K-Dogs die and others fall sick

« on: January 15, 2021, 12:01:38 PM »

I think a certain someone should watch out. They are onto you!

US pet food recalled after 70 dogs die and others fall sick



A US pet food manufacturer is recalling several of its products following the deaths of at least 70 dogs and illness in another 80.

Midwestern Pet Foods, based in Indiana, said the recall affected its Sportmix brand and other labels.

Tests showed the food had potentially unsafe levels of aflatoxins, a by-product of mould that grows on corn and other grains.

The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is carrying out an investigation.

"As of January 11, 2021, FDA is aware of more than 70 pets that have died and more than 80 pets that are sick after eating Sportmix pet food," the agency said in a statement.

The company originally announced a recall of some of its Sportmix products in December following the deaths of 28 dogs, CBS News reported.

Tests by the Missouri Department of Agriculture found high levels of aflatoxins, according to the FDA.

Euthanasia drug found in US dog food

The recall was expanded this week to include others brands after more deaths came to light.

Symptoms among animals poisoned by aflatoxins include vomiting, sluggishness and loss of appetite.

Midwestern said the product recall now included Sportmix, Pro Pac Originals, Splash, Sportstrail and Nunn Better dry dog and cat foods produced at its Oklahoma plant that had an expiration date on or before 9 July 2022.

"We continue a thorough review of our facilities and practices in full co-operation with FDA in an effort to better serve our customers and pet parents who have put their trust in us," the company said.

In an alert on Monday the FDA said it was advising the public "about the potentially fatal levels of aflatoxins in Midwestern pet food products that may still be on store shelves, online or in pet owners' homes".

The family-owned company was founded in 1926 and is based in Evansville, Indiana. In its statement, it said it had never had to recall a product before.

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The Kitchen Sink / Re: Something worth tweeting

« on: December 12, 2020, 06:10:52 PM »

The lawsuits are over. The election will be certified Monday. Trump is out, for sure.

The whole argument about the legitimacy of the election process has been crazy.....never before has so much scrutiny been put on the process, more bogus claims made, more frivolous lawsuits filed.

Trump lost something like 30 lawsuits. We will now proceed to a new administration. It’s about fuckng time to get on with it.

At this point I don't think Trump files lawsuits in the attempt to overturn the elections, at least that is not the primary objection. Trump makes these ridiculous claims so that they he can raise funds from his gullible supporters to pay off his debts. He also files lawsuits to test the loyalty of his Republican party. The biggest supporters may even get a pardon which is the carrot he is throwing out to them. Then he can use this message in any future presidental campaign as a point to say how corrupt the whole political system is. Trump always likes to play the victim card and this "stolen election" will fit nicely into that narrative.

Yo Monsta1  How goes Brexit/

RE

UK is still in the transistion phase of Brexit. That transistion will come to an end on the 1st January 2021. The way it is looking it is highly probable no deal well be made. I suspect there will be some chaos come January and if there is enough of it then it might motivate Boris to pen out a deal. If he handles Brexit in the same vein as Covid-19 then I can see him losing his job by the end of the year.

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The Kitchen Sink / Re: Something worth tweeting

« on: December 12, 2020, 10:40:48 AM »

The lawsuits are over. The election will be certified Monday. Trump is out, for sure.

The whole argument about the legitimacy of the election process has been crazy.....never before has so much scrutiny been put on the process, more bogus claims made, more frivolous lawsuits filed.

Trump lost something like 30 lawsuits. We will now proceed to a new administration. It’s about fuckng time to get on with it.

At this point I don't think Trump files lawsuits in the attempt to overturn the elections, at least that is not the primary objective. Trump makes these ridiculous claims so that they he can raise funds from his gullible supporters to pay off his debts. He also files lawsuits to test the loyalty of his Republican party. The biggest supporters may even get a pardon which is the carrot he is throwing out to them. Then he can use this message in any future presidental campaign as a point to say how corrupt the whole political system is. Trump always likes to play the victim card and this "stolen election" will fit nicely into that narrative.

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Medicine & Health / Re: Amputee Doomer

« on: November 09, 2020, 11:08:25 AM »

Sorry to hear about your lose. I just hope you get a good prosthetic leg and your life can go to something resembling normal.

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Marathon Man Newz / Re: No........ My Day Isn't Quite Over Yet

« on: July 16, 2020, 05:02:26 PM »

I never said racism is gone. I said we have made laws already that are designed to protect people from it.....I think racism is part of the human condition, and will never be completely erased, only ameliorated. My criticism goes to HOW we go forward....BLM is a deeply flawed movement that will do more harm than good.

Thinking the movement is flawed is one thing but the basic idea of making black lifes matter is another. I do disagree with some of their tactics such as defund the police or the huge emphasis on bringing down statues, which I believe dilutes the more importnant messages. However the overall theme of black lifes matter stems from the fact than in many aspects black lifes seem to be valued less than white people as when black people suffer misfortune we are not treated in the same way as white people. This dynamic effects both the US and the UK. It is this fact how the BLM movement resonated with the people in the UK and other nations. This is how it has gained traction in so many countries. Now you can argue about the particulars and whether the tactics or actions are flawed but the basic premise behind the actions ring true.

What is true is that violence by police is at 30 year lows...and it is also true, as Harris says, that for many reasons there will always be a potential for another video like the George Floyd video......in a country with 325 million people, where 10 million people a year get arrested,

If this is what the 30 year lows look like I hate to imagine what it was like in the past. I would still stand that the level of service provided by the police is unacceptable. The George Floyd murder was bad but unfortunately it is not an isolated case. The fact that various police forces throughout the US attacked various protestors and made unlawful arrests coupled with their arrogant tone deaf responses suggest this is a systemic issue and is something that has to be addessed.

The incident a police squad pushed over and injured an elderly person was particularly distressing. Also the fact that no officer decided to help, and even worse when questioned about the incident instead of taking ownership the whole team decided to resign in mass suggests there are major conduct issues in the police force. I strongly feel police officers have to be held to a higher degree of accountability otherwise these incidents will continue in the future. If you make people accountable then they will behave better. Sure the job is dangerous and all that but then give the officers the training and place a higher standard in getting more quality candidates and change the ethos of the police force. The platform of the UK police is to enforce the law through concent of the populance, in otherwords they work to garner respect rather than feel they are entitled to it. I think an attitude change is required. 

I believe, based on a lifetime of experience here, having gone to university with black people and brown people, and having seen the very real efforts on many fronts to reduce and eliminate "systemic" racism, that this part of the BLM party line is completely overblown. I can give you as many examples of  people in positions of authority trying to make this better as you can examples of any kind of barriers. The evidence clearly shows that systemic racism has been on the decline in America since I was a kid. As Harris points out, we have major cities that are on their 3rd and 4th generation of black mayors...we have increased diversity in police departments...done so many things. Systemic racism still exists, but it isn't what it once was, nor is it as bad as SJA's are trying to claim.

It maybe on the decline but then nothing can be taken for granted. Like I said in a previous post if people get complacent then things can easily regress. The amount of support Trump gets, who is a racist president, suggests there is a strong contingent of people who support highly racist views. People have to fight against that kinda push back.

The BLM approach to racial justice, which is to promote black people and arbitrarily take authority away from white people and give it to black people.....because of past oppression and slavery that ended 4 or 5 generations ago...is a very bad idea, that will not end well. It is anti-intellectual Maoism at it's worst.

I would say this is a factor that may spring in the US. The dialogue from people who support BLM is different in the UK and here the agenda is not about promoting blacks over others races rather it is simply to raise the fact that systemic racism still exists in the UK. We must examine our various instiutions and examine ways of reducing the various types of systemic racism that occurs. I can't comment on what BLM says in the US as I am not engaged in the dialogue in the US; I can only make comments of the overall sentiments here in my home country.

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Medicine & Health / Re: 🦠 Can you get infected with COVID-19 twice? Experts say possibility is 'certain

« on: July 16, 2020, 03:32:02 PM »

What a bullshit article.

Definitely possible....but we don't know anything, so let's write an article that imparts exactly no new information...and put a cute virus graphic with it,

I wouldn't be too dismissive over the article. Just a few days prior I read an article describing how in a London hospital they conducted a study with 90 people and found that the antibody levels of people declined rapidly in the period of three months. In some cases the people had undectectable levels of antibodies:

Immunity to Covid-19 could be lost in months, UK study suggests  (The Guardian)

What is more similar studies had been found in a Chinese study where in a sample of 37 people they found similar findings:

Clinical and immunological assessment of asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infections (Nature Medicine)

It can be argued that the sample sizes in both studies are low moreover antibody levels are not everything when it comes to immunity but these studies do indicate the possiblity that immunity maybe limited which if true would put cold water over the ideas of natural herd immunity and immunity passports. Nothing is a given and it still too early to tell definitively but there seems to be mounting evidence that immunity to coronavirus is not long lasting. You also have to consider that other strains of coronavirus which cause the common cold only infer immunity that lasts around one year. This coupled with anecdotal stories of reinfection to Covid-19 means that we have to be cautious that there is a distinct possiblity people may get the virus more than once. This is particularly true if you are asymptomatic or only had mild episode of covid-19 as people with less severe cases produce a lower antibody response than people with more severe cases. Chris Marteson did a podcast describing this:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/TbfvEKE3vKk?start=648" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/TbfvEKE3vKk?start=648</a>

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Marathon Man Newz / Re: No........ My Day Isn't Quite Over Yet

« on: July 15, 2020, 03:59:22 PM »

I don't think BLM is any kind of legitimate progression that can be compared to the non-violent protests that led to the end of Jim Crow and to the Civll Rights Act of 1965.

Pretending that this movement is about achieving racial justice  is disingenuous....equality has been legislated for two generations....we have laws that are supposed to protect everyone....and equally.

Thinking that racism has largely gone due to the civil rights movement is a dangerous way of thinking. The thing you need to understand is that people have a natural tendency to be racist and think more favourably of certain social/cultural or race groups. In America the focus is on the black and white racial divide but in other countries it occurs also. In my country in Sudan the southern largely Christian Sudanese were often treateed like second class citizens (this was a big reason why the country divided). In the middle-east Sunni's discriminate against Shia's or vice-versa while the Japanese are racist against Korean. The point being that people hold natural bias and can often be closed minded. To eliminate racism you must actively fight against such biases and never become complacent. Taking all the neccesary actions entails a lot of interspection, humility and self-reflection to eradicate it from society.

Plus it important to realise that legislation by itself will not stop it. It has to be enforced, applied fairly and be accepted and supported by the general public and the government instiutions... Failure to do so and it will be like the law doesn't exist. The fact of the matter is racism exists on a systemic level and this is reflected by the fact that blacks are overrepresented in convictions. Not only that but blacks will receive longer sentences for the same crimes. I believe this is true even if you account for various co-founding factors such as lower economic wealth etc. For example blacks take as many drugs as whites yet they get sentenced on a much more regular basis. Police brutality occurs on much more regular basis and I suspect stuff like stop and search occurs at higher rates. I know that is certainly the case in the UK and I suspect it is true in the states.

But going back to the BLM. I think if you get to the bottom of it the big point the George Floyd killing made was the fact that police brutality is rampant in America so even if you disagree with the racism element of the protest you should agree that the police are too violent and something needs to be done about it. I don't think it is acceptable that around 1000 American citizens should die from police officers and barely any of them are held to account. The status quo needs to stop you deserve better than this and your tax dollars should not fund such poor services. The question is what can be done to reduce this number? More training for officers in de-escalating situations would help. Make it a thing to hire better more educated police officers even pay them more to get better candidates but make them understand they have greater responsiblities which would be a greater emphasis on supporting their communities and placing greater accountability if they abuse their position. By tackling this problem everyone stands to benefit but if the racism aspect is true then blacks will disportionally benefit from better enforcement because they have been the primary targets in these attacks.

Also if you think that blacks/hispanics are more involved in crime and gangs the next question you need to ask is why is that the case? Instead of continually locking them up why doesn't people try and address the underlying issues? You mentioned the laws creating a large underclass. I think a big one is the huge sentencing for drug offences. I don't think it is productive to lock so many people for cannabis as this leads to family broken families. If you had more families that stayed together I feel there would be less crime. What is more with less people getting criminal convictions you give more people opportunities to earn a decent legitimate income. You break the cycle. Doing so will benefit blacks more if your premise is correct but it would also likely benefit whites too. I think a holistic approach needs to be taken and using brute force police and harsh prison sentences is not the answer. The tactics has been tried for 50 years and it is not helping in making society a better place.

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Marathon Man Newz / Re: No........ My Day Isn't Quite Over Yet

« on: July 15, 2020, 12:35:29 PM »

Conflating what is going on now with the real civil rights movement is pure stupidity on your part. Or you're deliberately laying down cover for ignorant, angry people who want a revolution.....

Surly is not conflating the two movements rather he is trying to draw similarities by taking the overall dynamics that tends to occur during mass movement events. When people push for change you will always get people that oppose change. Some opponents will make their intentions very clear and vocal and it will be directly against the prosestors demands. They are a problem but often the bigger issue is not this group as their numbers maybe smaller. The biggest issue can be the silent dissenter who in normal times maybe supportive with the overall aims of the prostesting group but when big action is taken will be against the movement because the timing is not right or perhaps they are pushing their views to forceably and creating a disturbance (breaking the peace so to speak).

This overall dynamic in social movements is seen in any area even outside a racial context. For example before the black live matters protests you had the me too movement. Plenty of men would support the notion of equal gender rights and for rape/sexual harrasement to be taken seriously yet when me too sprung about you got a heap of formally supportive men who said the women in the me too movement where behaving over the top and it was repressive to men. Again former supporters of the protesting group suddenly turned coat and expressed views that seemed to support the status quo. Previous to that you had the wall street movement. Lots of people agree social inequality is too great in America but when people protest on the street for this issue to be taken seriously the people who wanted to take action where called entitled/soft/spoiled or too supportive over socialist policies.

The final point I would like is that when any movement gets big enough you are bound to get bad/rogue elements in the group that are either violent or support views that are not correct. This is natural and to a large extent they are outliers. The moderate views of a protesting group are often peaceful, reasonable and most important open to negotiation. It is just, like most things, you get the vocal minority that could spoil the image of the moderates moreover those extreme viewpoints often get a greater proportion of the media coverage because their views are more newsworthy than the more senisble elements. The key point to understand is whether the central message is reasonable and is something worth fighting. What change seems reaonable now may have seemed over top when it originally happened. For example we take women's voting and civil rights for miniority's as a given yet when those matters were debated with mass protests at the time it was very controversal and I bet you got a good segment of people who thought those protestors where complaining over nothing. There is never really a right to wait and protest and there will be some rogue elements. We just have to understand if the group as a whole are fighting for something genuinely worthwhile. Getting overly critical simply becomes an implicit way of supporting the status quo.

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Marathon Man Newz / Re: Possible Wave Pattern of COVID Spread

« on: July 14, 2020, 08:58:48 AM »

My office rent is low, and frankly, it's also very low on the priority list, as far as things that need to be dealt with right now.

If the current status quo carries on how long could your business last?

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Knarfs Knewz / Re: Ohio Man Dies Of COVID-19 After Saying Masks Were Hype

« on: July 14, 2020, 08:47:01 AM »

Richard Rose, 37, posted that he wasn't going to buy "a f—king mask," and laughed about going to a water park in mid-June. A few weeks later he was dead.

Darwin Award nominee?

For sure, but a new award /s needs to be coined for these death spreaders. See who comes up with a good name for them, i go with "TrumpZombies" ( new words -accepted ).

Virus-slurpers.

Well, masks don't actually protect you very much.  They protect others from you passing the virus to them if you have it.

RE

Correct.
Masks are to protect others from your various effusions, ejects and aerosols, not you. The merest consideration of a nod to common courtesy, which is now seen as authoritarian Communism among the True Believers.

The fact that you have to explain this to people every day is a measure of the level of disinformation and ignorance on the march in this country try.

The point is, this guy likely would have died even if he WAS wearing a mask.

RE

Masks should be supplementary to social distancing NOT a replacement. If you can practice social distancing then do it but if social distancing is impossible then masks can reduce (but not eliminate) the risk of catching coronavirus. It is crucial to understand that masks are not a replacement to distancing; they merely mitigate the risk of closer contact with others. Other important considerations is direction you are to others as it is safer to be faced back to back rather than face to face. Duration of exposure is also another factor as I hear a minute between someone two metres away is the equivalent of being beside someone for 10 seconds who is only one metre away.

Other factors are ventilation as you are under less risk outdoors than indoors. Being inside with no open windows and air con on puts you at increased risk assuming all other factors are the same. People have to take precautions and it is prudent to have situational awareness and take apprioriate measures depending on the environment. In otherwords you need to be more viligant over social distancing, mask wearing and hand/facial hygeine if you find yourself in a high risk environment.

Also it would be adviceable to take care of your health so that means good diets, lots of exercise, reduced drinking and having vitamins such as vitamin C/D help. I think in the plains of Alaska and you hiding in your doomstead can't do much to your vitamin D levels. Get supplemented on it if you aren't already doing so. It should be noted there is some evidence that any immunity you might have to Covid-19 is not long lasting. I hear immunity can only last three months to a year. I do hear that cortisol steroids, blood thinners and statins can help with people suffering from Covid-19. Jury is out on smoking; some studies indicates it is protective whilst others say it is bad.

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Surly Newz / Re: Forcing Schools to Open in A Pandemic is Child Abuse

« on: July 12, 2020, 04:38:53 PM »

The Public Skules have been shitholes for quite some time, basically since the system was developed in the 19th century.  The system needed to be eradicated anyhow.  There are still books to read and the internet to search, so nobody is being denied an education here.  And who needs to take SATs if nobody is going to Uni?  It's just an IQ test in disguise to select for smart kids.


There really is no way to reopen schools "safely" at this time.  The buildings don't support social distaning, classrooms aren't big enough.  Simply having all kids wear Masks doesn't work either, because that is not the only way a virus of this type gets transmitted.  It will get onto books, onto desks and onto the Book Reports the kids have to write for Homework.  If you oopen the schools more kids will pass along the disease and bring it home and spread it to other family members.  That is how it works.

Most children are going to school in Europe and you don't hear of mad outbreaks occurring there. Nothing is risk free but if people apply cetain measures then the risks can be minimised. As K-Dog alluded to; you need proper leadership to do this. Here is a decent article showing what other countries have done to get children back to school:

Coronavirus: Are countries around the world sending children back to school? (Independent)

Also as shitty as the schools in America maybe a place where schools don't exist would be much worse. You think kids will teach themselves with books or perhaps their parents will do a decent job at homeschooling? Most parents will make rubbish teachers hence the reasons for teachers in the first place.

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Surly Newz / Re: Forcing Schools to Open in A Pandemic is Child Abuse

« on: July 12, 2020, 01:47:43 PM »

It's economics mainly.  If the schools don't reopen, then that's a lot of teachers on the unemployment lines.  Also lotta parent who can't go to work because they have no place to warehouse their kids.

It is not just about economics; denying children formal education has major implications on their learning and development of social skills. Moreover if the kids are older you have additional problems such as how will they take their SATS and progress to university? The opening of schools is fraught with danger but significant problems can occur if you close schools for a prolonged period of time. Not an easy problem to fix. I would expect that the Federal or state governments to make a list of guidelines on how to minimise the risks involved. Unfortunately seeing what happened with the rushed reopenings I am not confident that will happen but that is another story...