Doomstead Diner Menu => The Kitchen Sink => Topic started by: Ashvin on August 14, 2018, 02:55:07 PM

Title: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on August 14, 2018, 02:55:07 PM
Quote from: Surly
Quillette in Lehmann's hands purportedly "makes arguments or presents data not in keeping with the contemporary intellectual consensus." The NYT's latest darling Bari Weiss, "regards Lehmann as one of the leaders of the Intellectual Dark Web, a group of intellectuals who are "determined to resist parroting what’s politically convenient."

Since you brought it up, I would say that the above is a decent snapshot of the IDW, but a snapshot is all it is. Jordan Peterson more aptly describes it as a loose grouping of public intellectuals who have been early adopters of internet technology allowing long-form talks and discussions (I would say 60   min. makes it "long-form"). The people who currently are grouped into the IDW run the gamut of political leanings, with Ben Shapiro probably being the most conservative. So people who want to paint it as some manifestation of the "drooling right" don't have a factual leg to stand on.

The one thing they all seem to have in common, though, is an extremely high respect for academic freedom and free thought/speech in general. Whether they lean left or right, they all pay enough attention to see that certain ideological factions of our society, on BOTH sides, are trying to drown out such freedoms and homogenize intellectual discourse. The casualties of the identity politics ideologues are stacking up more and more. If you teach, do research or publish articles/books/videos, you are especially susceptible to being the next victim. You will be called a bigot, homophobe, Islamophobe, racist, sexist, etc. for merely stating FACTS about gender, race or religion.

Fortunately, the various constituents of the IDW have garnered enough support that there is a significant counter-balance to these worrying trends. The loudest and most shrill voices are no longer the only ones being heard. Now if you are new to the IDW and want to read the most biased, politically-motivated and intellectually lazy analysis of it, I would recommend you visit none other than Vox - https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2018/5/10/17338290/intellectual-dark-web-rogan-peterson-harris-times-weiss. (https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2018/5/10/17338290/intellectual-dark-web-rogan-peterson-harris-times-weiss.)

The reason I even post that link is because I have enough faith in the intellect and discernment of readers here to think that they can easily see through the thin and superficial ideological veneer of the above hit piece. If, instead, you want real exposure to the IDW, so you can decide the intellectual integrity of its "members" and the merits of their arguments for yourself, you have to do the HARD WORK of reading what they write or listening to what they say. It takes time and effort. And that is something the ideologues of the Vox ilk do not want anyone to do, because it immediately destroys their brand of selling cheap and easy aphorisms to its readers. They want their captive audience to remain addicted to a steady diet of convenient ideologically-driven "anaylsis".

Here's a place to start, but most certainly not the place to end if you want to get real exposure to the IDW and their sensible discourse:

http://www.youtube.com/v/PagNM_oxssE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on August 14, 2018, 03:02:27 PM
Also, a message to anyone who wants to weigh in on this topic, especially people who are NOT admins:

PLEASE keep your comments on topic and refrain from language that may be perceived as attacking a commenter instead of the substance of their comment. I have also been guilty of this in the recent past, and I would rather not give the admins any excuse to shut it all down.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on August 14, 2018, 03:46:45 PM
Also, a message to anyone who wants to weigh in on this topic, especially people who are NOT admins:

PLEASE keep your comments on topic and refrain from language that may be perceived as attacking a commenter instead of the substance of their comment. I have also been guilty of this in the recent past, and I would rather not give the admins any excuse to shut it all down.


Thanks and thanks.

I will find time to watch this video. I thought the other JP video was very good, and I think the hoopla about  the term IDW is basically irrelevant. I'm always glad to see intelligent discussion and sincere dialog about real issues rather than some emotional appeal to the lowest common denominators of our culture, which is what we've been seeing for the most part lately in our political process.

---------------------

Nobody ever got run off this site without a long history of making deliberately ad hom remarks and/or trying to post misleading or hateful comments, however.

I think  there have been a grand total of two people ever banned from the Diner for good, to my knowledge.  That's not many for a forum that's been up for as long as the Diner.

In the first case, there is a consensus among the admins that it was a good decision. This one happened many months ago, now.

Another chronic malcontent got their ticket punched yesterday, and it was done by a complete consensus between four mods who discussed the possibility for months and months, while the commenter in question repeatedly made remarks that pushed the limits over and over and ignored many warnings to tone it down.

Nobody has to walk on eggshells to post here.. It isn't like that, and it hasn't been like that, and it shouldn't be characterized as such. Some people will never be happy about the way this or any other blog is moderated. But it's necessary, and policies here are much more open and fair than most. Trolls have taken advantage of this too many times.

Carry on, and use a little consideration, and nobody gets hurt. The hostages will be released when the check clears the bank in the Caymans.

Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on August 14, 2018, 06:43:56 PM


I will find time to watch this video. I thought the other JP video was very good, and I think the hoopla about  the term IDW is basically irrelevant. I'm always glad to see intelligent discussion and sincere dialog about real issues rather than some emotional appeal to the lowest common denominators of our culture, which is what we've been seeing for the most part lately in our political process.

I think the hope is that the IDW term will become irrelevant as the way in which people are conducting discourse within the IDW spreads out to the rest of the culture. It's a long shot, but there's still a shot. Until it happens, I guess some term needs to be used to distinguish the order of magnitudes difference in the quality of dialogues happening between certain public intellectuals and, well, just about every one else.

And in case it wasn't already clear, the IDW does not at all refer to a group of people who share ideological frameworks or political leanings. Some of them debate one another, for ex. Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson. It's a fascinating ensemble of characters, actually.

I'd love to hear more of your thoughts when you finish the video, Eddie.

Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: K-Dog on August 14, 2018, 09:46:24 PM
Just calling yourself the Intellectual Dark Web does not an entity make.  A dark web is dark, members only, that is why it is a dark web.  Nobody know the addresses on the web unless they are part of an inner circle.  Having a dark web facilitate discussion is an oxymoron. 

Meet Darkwing Duck

(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-u0aEbwjLbsQ/WKKQYLSZz6I/AAAAAAABEs8/GK1oUv6P7kUS-WIbj3hTJzjdZnoHaXBXwCPcB/s1600/darkwing-duck-5891a3943c62f.png)

Sure looks like Donald to me. 

I find the expropriation of 'dark web' to try and pin on a nebulous political orientation to be a case of an emperor wearing no clothes in a linguistic sense.  Smoke and fury signifying nothing.  Jordan Peterson is a psychologist and really does not have any political agenda.  It just so happens that his psychological research does not sanction the lifestyle choices some people make and their agenda brought him the notoriety he has, not his own actions. 

If a person tries to identify Peterson as a politician they are full of baloney.  He is a psychologist most concerned with individuals getting their shit together.  That he would be thrown into the dark web blunderbuss shows the whole notion is nothing but a whole lot of commotion.

If a dark web facilitates discussion members typing away on it will consist of not only the worlds tallest midgets but also the worlds smartest idiots.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Surly1 on August 15, 2018, 03:34:53 AM
Nobody ever got run off this site without a long history of making deliberately ad hom remarks and/or trying to post misleading or hateful comments, however.

I think  there have been a grand total of two people ever banned from the Diner for good, to my knowledge.  That's not many for a forum that's been up for as long as the Diner.

In the first case, there is a consensus among the admins that it was a good decision. This one happened many months ago, now.

Another chronic malcontent got their ticket punched yesterday, and it was done by a complete consensus between four mods who discussed the possibility for months and months, while the commenter in question repeatedly made remarks that pushed the limits over and over and ignored many warnings to tone it down.

Nobody has to walk on eggshells to post here.. It isn't like that, and it hasn't been like that, and it shouldn't be characterized as such. Some people will never be happy about the way this or any other blog is moderated. But it's necessary, and policies here are much more open and fair than most. Trolls have taken advantage of this too many times.

Carry on, and use a little consideration, and nobody gets hurt. The hostages will be released when the check clears the bank in the Caymans.

In meatspace, I have been summoned to Rome for a management retreat and have put in a bare minimum of Forum time. So I was delighted to see this here in the wee small hours of Wednesday morning.

Eddie has it exactly right. NONE of the admins wants to ban anyone. Ever. There is a wide range of tolerance for the opinions of others, even those with which we personally vigorously disagree. Admins here tolerate a higher amount of personal abuse here, than, say on other blogs. But what you push hard enough will eventually fall over. Try that ad hom stuff with Jin Quinn and see how long you last.

Carry on!
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on August 15, 2018, 06:18:12 AM
I find the expropriation of 'dark web' to try and pin on a nebulous political orientation to be a case of an emperor wearing no clothes in a linguistic sense.  Smoke and fury signifying nothing.  Jordan Peterson is a psychologist and really does not have any political agenda.  It just so happens that his psychological research does not sanction the lifestyle choices some people make and their agenda brought him the notoriety he has, not his own actions. 

If a person tries to identify Peterson as a politician they are full of baloney.  He is a psychologist most concerned with individuals getting their shit together.  That he would be thrown into the dark web blunderbuss shows the whole notion is nothing but a whole lot of commotion.

If a dark web facilitates discussion members typing away on it will consist of not only the worlds tallest midgets but also the worlds smartest idiots.

It's a useful fiction. The term itself is a bit silly and not technically accurate. I can also see how it would annoy the hell out of people. I just think it's convenient to have some term to use to describe people who share the qualities I described before:

"a loose grouping of public intellectuals who have been early adopters of internet technology allowing long-form talks and discussions" who also have a high degree of respect for free thought/speech.

JP is by no means a politician or politically motivated, but he didn't shy away from political/legal debate when he believed the Canadian government had codified a social constructionist view of gender into law and was attempting to compel speech. He does not take well to people blatantly going against established science and trying to force their anti-scientific views on others through the powers of the state, while also managing to denigrate the best and only mechanism we have for conducting meaningful dialogue between the left and right.

He is also very focused on how we find the most meaning in life through taking on heavy responsibilities, as opposed to simply seeking happiness, empathy and compassion at all times, or pretending to seek those things. Like you said, about people getting their shit together (before they try to get society's shit together). That focus inevitably spills over into political debates. I think the key for him is that our ethics and scientific understanding should always inform our politics instead of the other way around.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on August 15, 2018, 06:36:23 AM
I find the expropriation of 'dark web' to try and pin on a nebulous political orientation to be a case of an emperor wearing no clothes in a linguistic sense.  Smoke and fury signifying nothing.  Jordan Peterson is a psychologist and really does not have any political agenda.  It just so happens that his psychological research does not sanction the lifestyle choices some people make and their agenda brought him the notoriety he has, not his own actions. 

If a person tries to identify Peterson as a politician they are full of baloney.  He is a psychologist most concerned with individuals getting their shit together.  That he would be thrown into the dark web blunderbuss shows the whole notion is nothing but a whole lot of commotion.

If a dark web facilitates discussion members typing away on it will consist of not only the worlds tallest midgets but also the worlds smartest idiots.

It's a useful fiction. The term itself is a bit silly and not technically accurate. I can also see how it would annoy the hell out of people. I just think it's convenient to have some term to use to describe people who share the qualities I described before:

"a loose grouping of public intellectuals who have been early adopters of internet technology allowing long-form talks and discussions" who also have a high degree of respect for free thought/speech.

JP is by no means a politician or politically motivated, but he didn't shy away from political/legal debate when he believed the Canadian government had codified a social constructionist view of gender into law and was attempting to compel speech. He does not take well to people blatantly going against established science and trying to force their anti-scientific views on others through the powers of the state, while also managing to denigrate the best and only mechanism we have for conducting meaningful dialogue between the left and right.

He is also very focused on how we find the most meaning in life through taking on heavy responsibilities, as opposed to simply seeking happiness, empathy and compassion at all times, or pretending to seek those things. Like you said, about people getting their shit together (before they try to get society's shit together). That focus inevitably spills over into political debates. I think the key for him is that our ethics and scientific understanding should always inform our politics instead of the other way around.

After my limited exposure of watching the first video, and reading a number  of articles about JP (including some hit pieces), I draw about the same conclusions as Ashvin.

I'd call JP a "reluctant social and political critic", and not just a psychologist or an academician. I'm glad I don't have to live and work in today's university culture. Too me, it's a toxic environment full of man-traps and PC bullshit. I know I wouldn't last long.

He is a guy with a book for sale. I'm sure he wrote it for reasons beyond getting a check, but I do try to remember that there is a financial interest in his pop psychology publications. With that said, he seems to espouse values that are fairly identical to my own, so I hope people read his book and it has an impact. I have not yet read it but i'd like to...


Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on August 15, 2018, 06:45:22 AM
I just recently came across this debate over the gender pronoun issues. It's great, but you could even skip to the Q&A section at the end. Because, IMO, JP is absolutely brilliant in responding to the questions and illuminating the underlying issues.

http://www.youtube.com/v/pzkNHpiJ7AE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on August 16, 2018, 05:39:57 AM
A 48 min. discussion between JP and Douglas Murray on Trump, the dangers of identity politics on the left and right, and the taboo nature of valid scientific research on IQ, ethnic differences, etc. which threatens ideological "equity" doctrines.

http://www.youtube.com/v/mNJyAKy-A2g
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on August 16, 2018, 02:28:06 PM
He is a guy with a book for sale. I'm sure he wrote it for reasons beyond getting a check, but I do try to remember that there is a financial interest in his pop psychology publications. With that said, he seems to espouse values that are fairly identical to my own, so I hope people read his book and it has an impact. I have not yet read it but i'd like to...

His book "maps of meaning" is the more philosophical one and it's a tough slog, I'm only half way through. 12 Rules for Life is more of a breeze, but definitely worth a read.

I can't fault anyone for trying to earn some compensation for their time and effort - but the key for me is whether they ONLY release content to people who pay, or if they also provide free content. JP provides A TON of free content, including youtube videos which break down every chapter of his books.

He also does a modern psychological analysis of the Biblical stories, which I highly recommend. Again, very tough sledding, but worth it. I started doing about 30-60 min at night while laying in bed.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW) - Deborah Soh and the Damore Memo
Post by: Ashvin on August 20, 2018, 06:20:40 AM
No, the Google manifesto isn’t sexist or anti-diversity. It’s science

DEBRA SOH
CONTRIBUTED TO THE GLOBE AND MAIL
PUBLISHED AUGUST 8, 2017
UPDATED AUGUST 8, 2017


By now, most of us have heard about Google's so-called "anti-diversity" manifesto and how James Damore, the engineer who wrote it, has been fired from his job.

Titled Google's Ideological Echo Chamber, Mr. Damore called out the current PC culture, saying the gender gap in Google's diversity was not due to discrimination, but inherent differences in what men and women find interesting. Danielle Brown, Google's newly appointed vice-president for diversity, integrity and governance, accused the memo of advancing "incorrect assumptions about gender," and Mr. Damore confirmed last night he was fired for "perpetuating gender stereotypes."

Despite how it's been portrayed, the memo was fair and factually accurate. Scientific studies have confirmed sex differences in the brain that lead to differences in our interests and behaviour.

As mentioned in the memo, gendered interests are predicted by exposure to prenatal testosterone – higher levels are associated with a preference for mechanically interesting things and occupations in adulthood. Lower levels are associated with a preference for people-oriented activities and occupations. This is why STEM (science, technology, engineering and mathematics) fields tend to be dominated by men.

We see evidence for this in girls with a genetic condition called congenital adrenal hyperplasia, who are exposed to unusually high levels of testosterone in the womb. When they are born, these girls prefer male-typical, wheeled toys, such as trucks, even if their parents offer more positive feedback when they play with female-typical toys, such as dolls. Similarly, men who are interested in female-typical activities were likely exposed to lower levels of testosterone.

As well, new research from the field of genetics shows that testosterone alters the programming of neural stem cells, leading to sex differences in the brain even before it's finished developing in utero. This further suggests that our interests are influenced strongly by biology, as opposed to being learned or socially constructed.

Many people, including a former Google employee, have attempted to refute the memo's points, alleging that they contradict the latest research.

I'd love to know what "research done […] for decades" he's referring to, because thousands of studies would suggest otherwise. A single study, published in 2015, did claim that male and female brains existed along a "mosaic" and that it isn't possible to differentiate them by sex, but this has been refuted by four – yes, four – academic studies since.

This includes a study that analyzed the exact same brain data from the original study and found that the sex of a given brain could be correctly identified with 69-per-cent to 77-per-cent accuracy.

Of course, differences exist at the individual level, and this doesn't mean environment plays no role in shaping us. But to claim that there are no differences between the sexes when looking at group averages, or that culture has greater influence than biology, simply isn't true.

In fact, research has shown that cultures with greater gender equity have larger sex differences when it comes to job preferences, because in these societies, people are free to choose their occupations based on what they enjoy.

As the memo suggests, seeking to fulfill a 50-per-cent quota of women in STEM is unrealistic. As gender equity continues to improve in developing societies, we should expect to see this gender gap widen.

This trend continues into the area of personality, as well. Contrary to what detractors would have you believe, women are, on average, higher in neuroticism and agreeableness, and lower in stress tolerance.

Some intentionally deny the science because they are afraid it will be used to justify keeping women out of STEM. But sexism isn't the result of knowing facts; it's the result of what people choose to do with them.

This is exactly what the mob of outrage should be mobilizing for, instead of denying biological reality and being content to spend a weekend doxxing a man so that he would lose his job. At this point, as foreshadowed in Mr. Damore's manifesto, we should be more concerned about viewpoint diversity than diversity revolving around gender.

Debra Soh writes about the science of human sexuality and holds a PhD in sexual neuroscience from York University.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW) - JP on Alex Jones deplatforming (clip)
Post by: Ashvin on August 20, 2018, 06:28:38 AM
"I have always been among those who believed that the greatest freedom of speech was the greatest safety, because if a man is a fool, the best thing to do is to encourage him to advertise the fact by speaking. It cannot be so easily discovered if you allow him to remain silent and look wise, but if you let him speak, the secret is out and the world knows that he is a fool. So it is by the exposure of folly that it is defeated; not by the seclusion of folly, and in this free air of free speech men get into that sort of communication with one another which constitutes the basis of all common achievement." - Woodrow Wilson

http://www.youtube.com/v/f3jaPlWd2Pc
Title: The Intellectual Dark Web - On the Vital Necessity of Free Speech - Peterson
Post by: g on August 21, 2018, 03:20:50 PM
On the Vital Necessity of Free Speech (Are You Listening, Saudis)?

The Montreal Press Club marked the occasion of its 70th anniversary in 2018 by initiating a “Freedom Award” to mark the accomplishments of a single exceptionally courageous individual in the world of journalism. They chose as their first recipient Saudi blogger Raif Badawi (https://www.raifbadawi.org/ (https://www.raifbadawi.org/)), who has been tortured and imprisoned for his views by the oh-so-enlightened rulers of that state. I delivered this lecture on free speech on the occasion of the acceptance of the Press Club award by Raif Badawi's wife, Ensaf Haidar, April 26/2018 (video uploaded August 20).

Jordan B Peterson
Published on Aug 20, 2018


     
                                               http://www.youtube.com/v/EuNeqawPuuY
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on September 22, 2018, 01:47:08 AM
http://www.youtube.com/v/eqCNTopdBBs
Title: Peterson gives Dr Oz the Deepest Conversations He's Ever Had
Post by: Ashvin on October 07, 2018, 03:08:53 AM
http://www.youtube.com/v/AscPHmLWo-M
Title: Re: Peterson gives Dr Oz the Deepest Conversations He's Ever Had
Post by: Eddie on October 07, 2018, 12:30:09 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/AscPHmLWo-M

You've been able to help me put into words things I always knew to be true, but didn't know how to say.

YES!

JP says that a lot of people tell him this.

It comes up on this video at an hour and twelve minutes into the interview, which is where I am right now. I just had to stop and say that this is EXACTLY how I've felt about his stuff since the first time I listened to him.

For someone like me, who has intuitively and through much trial and error, found my way to this same kind of wisdom, it is very life affirming, and it gives me a certain amount of intellectual ammunition in some common arguments I've found myself getting into here in cyberspace, for some years now.

When you're my age, it isn't easy to find new mentors. And....at this stage of life it's also hard to get excited about falling down some new rabbit hole into yet another reality.

But...I am seriously considering taking advantage of JP's massive utoob library to become at least as educated as his lucky undergraduate students in Toronto are about what he has to share. It amounts to free college, and I'm strongly considering making a commitment to listen to ALL of it.

It would no doubt be even better to sit in his classes, and I do envy those young people who do.

I expect for some few of them, it's quite a life changing process. It makes me think back to the good guys I remember from my college days, like Richard Kim, who had so much influence on my thinking. Things I've carried with me all the way through life.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41Y+Hix8wOL._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)




Title: Re: Peterson gives Dr Oz the Deepest Conversations He's Ever Had
Post by: Ashvin on October 07, 2018, 01:09:02 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/AscPHmLWo-M

You've been able to help me put into words things I always knew to be true, but didn't know how to say.

YES!

JP says that a lot of people tell him this.

It comes up on this video at an hour and twelve minutes into the interview, which is where I am right now. I just had to stop and say that this is EXACTLY how I've felt about his stuff since the first time I listened to him.

For someone like me, who has intuitively and through much trial and error, found my way to this same kind of wisdom, it is very life affirming, and it gives me a certain amount of intellectual ammunition in some common arguments I've found myself getting into here in cyberspace, for some years now.

When you're my age, it isn't easy to find new mentors. And....at this stage of life it's also hard to get excited about falling down some new rabbit hole into yet another reality.

But...I am seriously considering taking advantage of JP's massive utoob library to become at least as educated as his lucky undergraduate students in Toronto are about what he has to share. It amounts to free college, and I'm strongly considering making a commitment to listen to ALL of it.

It would no doubt be even better to sit in his classes, and I do envy those young people who do.

I expect for some few of them, it's quite a life changing process. It makes me think back to the good guys I remember from my college days, like Richard Kim, who had so much influence on my thinking. Things I've carried with me all the way through life.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41Y Hix8wOL._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)

Same here. For me it's a good mix of expertly articulated truths that I already felt aligned with and also novel arguments and insights, some of which have changed my opinion on things. Also he is a great resource for figuring out which authors or books to read next. And he throws in a lot scientific studies and related stories that I would otherwise never know about.

I went through his entire 2017 personality course lectures - I also envy his students. It is well worth the time, because it also becomes a crash course in philosophy over the last few hundred years. The biblical series is of course very good too, and I believe he will be continuing with those soon.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: azozeo on October 07, 2018, 02:11:23 PM
I'm to the point where I'm going to hurl a 3D furball...............

Not once has the higher self been mentioned in this thread.


The recovery movement has given millions of souls a new lease on life because of the higher power/self concept.

The journey is inward. Period.

Ashvin, when you get to the other side of the veil are you in for a BIG surprise.

Chasing pied pipers is fruitless at best.

Ashvin, when I mentioned to you find a new god over the JW nonsense you posted, I wasn't a pied piper command.
Inward amigo, inward.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on October 08, 2018, 08:13:18 PM
I'm to the point where I'm going to hurl a 3D furball...............

Not once has the higher self been mentioned in this thread.


The recovery movement has given millions of souls a new lease on life because of the higher power/self concept.

The journey is inward. Period.

Ashvin, when you get to the other side of the veil are you in for a BIG surprise.

Chasing pied pipers is fruitless at best.

Ashvin, when I mentioned to you find a new god over the JW nonsense you posted, I wasn't a pied piper command.
Inward amigo, inward.

With all due respect, I dont take anything you say seriously, let alone follow your instructions or advice. You enjoy being cryptic to the point of incomprehensible and acting like you are tuned into a higher metaphysical reality with certainty.

You have been predicting a complete annihilation of the Earth every month for the last few years now. How can anyone take you seriously? This thread is about having a productive and meaningful intellectual discussions, and I don't think you have any interest in that.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: K-Dog on October 09, 2018, 08:52:45 AM
It is a sad fact of life that without any who care to stop by and visit, people create false gods.  People will believe anything rather than nothing and we are all critters in search of an explanation.  Explanations don't have to be good, any are better than nothing.

Sometimes I hear of another's obvious erroneous belief.  They may have based their whole life around said belief and the consequent appalling waste of an entire life fills me with horror.  They may even have died for it and decided bullshit was more important than their own existence.  Beam me up Skottie.  Then I wonder if I am as deluded as they and terror fills me.  Then I get Starbucks.

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia-cdn.tripadvisor.com%2Fmedia%2Fphoto-s%2F0f%2Fc2%2Ff2%2F84%2Fstarbucks-coffee.jpg&f=1)

“The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little, but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace of a new dark age.”
H.P. Lovecraft, first paragraph of The Call of Cthulhu


But that was then and this is now and we know the sciences have harmed us much.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: azozeo on October 09, 2018, 11:46:05 AM
I'm to the point where I'm going to hurl a 3D furball...............

Not once has the higher self been mentioned in this thread.


The recovery movement has given millions of souls a new lease on life because of the higher power/self concept.

The journey is inward. Period.

Ashvin, when you get to the other side of the veil are you in for a BIG surprise.

Chasing pied pipers is fruitless at best.

Ashvin, when I mentioned to you find a new god over the JW nonsense you posted, I wasn't a pied piper command.
Inward amigo, inward.

With all due respect, I dont take anything you say seriously, let alone follow your instructions or advice. You enjoy being cryptic to the point of incomprehensible and acting like you are tuned into a higher metaphysical reality with certainty.

You have been predicting a complete annihilation of the Earth every month for the last few years now. How can anyone take you seriously? This thread is about having a productive and meaningful intellectual discussions, and I don't think you have any interest in that.



It's amazing the 3D meme diversity that our Creator has presented to us this fine day.  :icon_sunny:
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on October 10, 2018, 07:47:29 PM
Found this short interview of JBP by some ideologue at Vox, which is generally a den of ideologically possessed "journalists".

http://www.youtube.com/v/QPr10td3Ccc
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on October 30, 2018, 11:15:05 AM
My favorite example of Peterson taking an ideologue interviewer to task:

http://www.youtube.com/v/7QRQjrsFnR4
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on October 30, 2018, 12:20:50 PM
My favorite example of Peterson taking an ideologue interviewer to task:

http://www.youtube.com/v/7QRQjrsFnR4

On another thread, I mentioned that I've been reading the blog of a guy who has written a lot about money and exchange, over the years. His politics do not align with mine, but he's a smart guy. He invented Mastercard, way back in 1967.

 He takes the  false narrative of the liberals to task too. That part I'm good with...the rest I read to understand why a really smart guy might like Trump, because he does. Certain smart people do, like Scott Adams the cartoonist, who is still writing a lot about him.

I see the other side too well, and I view the guy (Trump I mean) as a dangerous loose cannon. But FYI. You might get something out of reading Michael Phillips. His latest blog post attempts to shed some light on how the left got to here. He says it started way back.

https://phillips.blogs.com/ (https://phillips.blogs.com/)

Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Surly1 on October 30, 2018, 12:46:08 PM
My favorite example of Peterson taking an ideologue interviewer to task:

http://www.youtube.com/v/7QRQjrsFnR4

Another Apologist for neofascism making the talk show rounds. This shit is going to gain NO traction here.

Jordan Peterson Calls Protestors "Wannabe Totalitarians" (https://www.reddit.com/r/enoughpetersonspam/comments/9sp7i7/jordan_peterson_calls_protestors_wannabe/)
In the 1960s, people marched in the streets to end segregation and other forms of racial and gender discrimination. The Civil Rights Movement saw the birth of modern identity politics. Of course, back then, many people opposed the protestors. You know, people like Jordan Peterson. According to Jordan Peterson, these civil rights marchers would be labeled as "wanna be toalitarians". Fast forward 50 some years and Peterson has this to say about people who are protesting him, "ill-informed faux-virtuous pathological compassion, and effortless careless indications of your purported moral, intellectual, scientific and academic superiority to stop me from talking to three hundred of your students". Peterson is a fascist and a text book authoritarian. His fans are too dumb and brainwashed to ever admit it.

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2018/10/academics-protest-about-jordan-peterson- (https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2018/10/academics-protest-about-jordan-peterson-)
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on October 30, 2018, 12:54:53 PM
My favorite example of Peterson taking an ideologue interviewer to task:

http://www.youtube.com/v/7QRQjrsFnR4

Another Apologist for neofascism making the talk show rounds. This shit is going to gain NO traction here.

Jordan Peterson Calls Protestors "Wannabe Totalitarians" (https://www.reddit.com/r/enoughpetersonspam/comments/9sp7i7/jordan_peterson_calls_protestors_wannabe/)
In the 1960s, people marched in the streets to end segregation and other forms of racial and gender discrimination. The Civil Rights Movement saw the birth of modern identity politics. Of course, back then, many people opposed the protestors. You know, people like Jordan Peterson. According to Jordan Peterson, these civil rights marchers would be labeled as "wanna be toalitarians". Fast forward 50 some years and Peterson has this to say about people who are protesting him, "ill-informed faux-virtuous pathological compassion, and effortless careless indications of your purported moral, intellectual, scientific and academic superiority to stop me from talking to three hundred of your students". Peterson is a fascist and a text book authoritarian. His fans are too dumb and brainwashed to ever admit it.

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2018/10/academics-protest-about-jordan-peterson- (https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2018/10/academics-protest-about-jordan-peterson-)

Another Apologist for neofascism making the talk show rounds.

I'm persuaded that nothing could be further from the truth. You are flat wrong this time, not that I expect you to  ever see it or admit it.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on October 30, 2018, 12:57:13 PM
Another Apologist for neofascism making the talk show rounds. This shit is going to gain NO traction here.

Libertarians eat this shit💩 up like it was Chocolate Ice Cream🍦 and not Shit💩.

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Surly1 on October 30, 2018, 12:59:11 PM
My favorite example of Peterson taking an ideologue interviewer to task:

http://www.youtube.com/v/7QRQjrsFnR4

Another Apologist for neofascism making the talk show rounds. This shit is going to gain NO traction here.

Jordan Peterson Calls Protestors "Wannabe Totalitarians" (https://www.reddit.com/r/enoughpetersonspam/comments/9sp7i7/jordan_peterson_calls_protestors_wannabe/)
In the 1960s, people marched in the streets to end segregation and other forms of racial and gender discrimination. The Civil Rights Movement saw the birth of modern identity politics. Of course, back then, many people opposed the protestors. You know, people like Jordan Peterson. According to Jordan Peterson, these civil rights marchers would be labeled as "wanna be toalitarians". Fast forward 50 some years and Peterson has this to say about people who are protesting him, "ill-informed faux-virtuous pathological compassion, and effortless careless indications of your purported moral, intellectual, scientific and academic superiority to stop me from talking to three hundred of your students". Peterson is a fascist and a text book authoritarian. His fans are too dumb and brainwashed to ever admit it.

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2018/10/academics-protest-about-jordan-peterson- (https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2018/10/academics-protest-about-jordan-peterson-)

Another Apologist for neofascism making the talk show rounds.

I'm persuaded that nothing could be further from the truth. You are flat wrong this time, not that I expect you to  ever see it or admit it.

Right back atcha, ace.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on October 30, 2018, 01:03:35 PM
My favorite example of Peterson taking an ideologue interviewer to task:

http://www.youtube.com/v/7QRQjrsFnR4

On another thread, I mentioned that I've been reading the blog of a guy who has written a lot about money and exchange, over the years. His politics do not align with mine, but he's a smart guy. He invented Mastercard, way back in 1967.

 He takes the  false narrative of the liberals to task too. That part I'm good with...the rest I read to understand why a really smart guy might like Trump, because he does. Certain smart people do, like Scott Adams the cartoonist, who is still writing a lot about him.

I see the other side too well, and I view the guy (Trump I mean) as a dangerous loose cannon. But FYI. You might get something out of reading Michael Phillips. His latest blog post attempts to shed some light on how the left got to here. He says it started way back.

https://phillips.blogs.com/ (https://phillips.blogs.com/)

Thanks, I will check it out.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on October 30, 2018, 01:14:08 PM
Another Apologist for neofascism making the talk show rounds. This shit is going to gain NO traction here.

Libertarians eat this shit💩 up like it was Chocolate Ice Cream🍦 and not Shit💩.

RE

Yeah,  I totally get that.

The thing is that, as I've been saying long before I ever heard of Jordan Peterson, the liberal side has gone off the rails on the whole identity politics issue.  It's a fair critique, and until liberals find some honesty on that, they can't get white working class votes. That's done.

You can call Peterson every name in the book, but if you can find a single instance of him being actually wrong on the facts, please feel free to share it with me.

I've watched hours of his videos on a range of subjects, and the guy is a real scholar, and better read than anyone any one of us, or anyone we know.

He isn't even right wing. Like me, he's fairly apolitical. The special people came after him, not vice versa, and they bit off way more than they could chew.

 
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on October 30, 2018, 01:15:15 PM
My favorite example of Peterson taking an ideologue interviewer to task:

http://www.youtube.com/v/7QRQjrsFnR4

Another Apologist for neofascism making the talk show rounds. This shit is going to gain NO traction here.

Jordan Peterson Calls Protestors "Wannabe Totalitarians" (https://www.reddit.com/r/enoughpetersonspam/comments/9sp7i7/jordan_peterson_calls_protestors_wannabe/)
In the 1960s, people marched in the streets to end segregation and other forms of racial and gender discrimination. The Civil Rights Movement saw the birth of modern identity politics. Of course, back then, many people opposed the protestors. You know, people like Jordan Peterson. According to Jordan Peterson, these civil rights marchers would be labeled as "wanna be toalitarians". Fast forward 50 some years and Peterson has this to say about people who are protesting him, "ill-informed faux-virtuous pathological compassion, and effortless careless indications of your purported moral, intellectual, scientific and academic superiority to stop me from talking to three hundred of your students". Peterson is a fascist and a text book authoritarian. His fans are too dumb and brainwashed to ever admit it.

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2018/10/academics-protest-about-jordan-peterson- (https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2018/10/academics-protest-about-jordan-peterson-)

Do you form any opinions by yourself after listening to the person in question? Serious question - have you listened to any of Petersons lectures or long form interviews? If so, could you point out one or two points you are critical of?

Ideologues protesting Petersons lectures to students is nothing new. McMaster U was the quintessential example of what these ideologues have to offer - slogans of "fuck you transphobic piece of shit", air horns, white noise speakers. Petersons monk like calm in the midst of all that was nothing short of heroic.

The letter in the article you posted stated Peterson is anti climate science. This is patently false. Which leads one to wonder how much of the rest of their claims is utter bullshit. You would do well to stop listening to the ideological herds opinion of these public speakers and do some digging.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on October 30, 2018, 01:17:58 PM
Also, I'm pretty sure Peterson has already gained some traction among 3 or 4 Diners here that we know of. That ship has sailed.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on October 30, 2018, 01:21:29 PM
Another Apologist for neofascism making the talk show rounds. This shit is going to gain NO traction here.

Libertarians eat this shit💩 up like it was Chocolate Ice Cream🍦 and not Shit💩.

RE

Yeah,  I totally get that.

The thing is that, as I've been saying long before I ever heard of Jordan Peterson, the liberal side has gone off the rails on the whole identity politics issue.  It's a fair critique, and until liberals find some honesty on that, they can't get white working class votes. That's done.

You can call Peterson every name in the book, but if you can find a single instance of him being actually wrong on the facts, please feel free to share it with me.

I've watched hours of his videos on a range of subjects, and the guy is a real scholar, and better read than anyone any one of us, or anyone we know.

He isn't even right wing. Like me, he's fairly apolitical. The special people came after him, not vice versa, and they bit off way more than they could chew.
 

Feel free to Brown Nose JP all you like and watch hours of his videos.  You might wedge in some William F. Buckley videos for variety of Intellectual Fascist Rationalizations (IFR) from history.  It will improve your vocabulary if nothing else.  I personally have had enough of this shit just from what has been embedded in Diner posting.

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on October 30, 2018, 01:24:57 PM
Oh, and the civil rights protesters weren't marching to stop people from exercising free speech or students from getting the chance to learn. These people are protesting to disallow intellectual freedom on a university campus, so the comparison is absurd and the "totalitarian" label fits them perfectly.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on October 30, 2018, 01:47:10 PM
Oh, and the civil rights protesters weren't marching to stop people from exercising free speech or students from getting the chance to learn. These people are protesting to disallow intellectual freedom on a university campus, so the comparison is absurd and the "totalitarian" label fits them perfectly.

In a world in Collapse, Totalitarians are ubiquitous.  It's a clear sign of Collapse, which you deny is underway.  The main question is which side of the Totalitarian Fence you sit on? ???

http://www.youtube.com/v/9SB0fc9CobQ

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Surly1 on October 30, 2018, 01:58:18 PM
Another Apologist for neofascism making the talk show rounds. This shit is going to gain NO traction here.

Libertarians eat this shit💩 up like it was Chocolate Ice Cream🍦 and not Shit💩.

RE

Yeah,  I totally get that.

The thing is that, as I've been saying long before I ever heard of Jordan Peterson, the liberal side has gone off the rails on the whole identity politics issue.  It's a fair critique, and until liberals find some honesty on that, they can't get white working class votes. That's done.

You can call Peterson every name in the book, but if you can find a single instance of him being actually wrong on the facts, please feel free to share it with me.

I've watched hours of his videos on a range of subjects, and the guy is a real scholar, and better read than anyone any one of us, or anyone we know.

He isn't even right wing. Like me, he's fairly apolitical. The special people came after him, not vice versa, and they bit off way more than they could chew.

It always amuses the fuck out of me when people claim that "the liberal side has gone off the rails on the whole identity politics issue" when the prevaricator on the Potomac has made identity politics his standard, his war cry and rallying cry! 11 lay dead and another MAGAt assailant tried to decapitate the senior leadership of the Dems last week with a series of pipe bombs. But we're supposed to feel bad because Mitch McConnell can't finish his soup, or that Gavin McInnes is going to have an event in Mamaroneck to call attention to his presence?

He's a big attacker of "political correctness," which is one of your personal hobbyhorses. "Political correctness" is a right wing epithet borrowed from analysis of communism to label assertions of rights of the traditionally dispossessed. And the people who gold all the power are ill inclined to grant any rights to anyone but themselves, so "political correctness" is what the privileged minority calls it when the oppressed are sick and tired of putting up with your shit.

Fell free to eat his shit with a spoon. I will not. You love that Peterson has criticized the use of the term "white privilege", stating that "being called out on their white privilege... and then made to suffer the consequences of the existence of that racial group and its hypothetical crimes, is... racist in its extreme"

I disagree.

And I am not going to allow Ashvin to wander back into the forum, squat, and take a healthy, Jordan Peterson shit, knowing that it will do nothing but divide the members and sow discord, any more than I will allow his spiritual lodestar to tweet about suspending "birthright citizenship" and distract voters from what the upcoming election is really about.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on October 30, 2018, 02:10:54 PM
And I am not going to allow Ashvin to wander back into the forum, squat, and take a healthy, Jordan Peterson shit, knowing that it will do nothing but divide the members and sow discord, any more than I will allow his spiritual lodestar to tweet about suspending "birthright citizenship" and distract voters from what the upcoming election is really about.

I sense another trip to the Cooler is in the offing.  ;D

http://www.youtube.com/v/RZa79QGDeo8

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on October 30, 2018, 04:11:22 PM
Here are some hallmarks of ideological possession:

1) Judging an individual as fascist, sexist, racist, etc. without actually listening to what they are saying. (see Cathy Newman interview of Peterson for an excellent display of this).

2) Blaming every negative occurrence in society on those who don't agree with your ideology

3) Attempting to suppress or otherwise marginalize the speech of those who don't agree.

It's obvious to Eddie and I and that these hallmarks can be seen on both the radical left and right of Western society. Surly seems to think that, because a radical conservative (by some measures) is President, anything and everything on the radical left can be excused, and everyone who criticizes the left is a part of the radical right. This is exactly what the hardcore critics of Peterson think as well.

They believe it is better to completely shut down speech that is critical of the left than to risk losing the never-ending power struggle of words and ideas. This is where postmodernism comes in - when everything is viewed primarily as a battle between various groups to gain the ideological upper hand, free speech and association is seen as secondary (if that) priorities, because allowing such freedoms risk losing the battle.

RE sending me to the "Cooler" every time I write a phrase which could possibly be construed as denigrating his intelligence "on the internet" is the epitome of the above. I did not "wander back into the forum" - I was just censored from participating. I wouldn't be surprised if the mere fact of pointing this out will get me censored again. Oh well...
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on October 30, 2018, 04:18:00 PM
Ideological possession on full display. Skip to about 30 min if you want to here Peterson talk uninterrupted:

http://www.youtube.com/v/3dSjbBmHOOE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on October 30, 2018, 04:29:51 PM
RE sending me to the "Cooler" every time I write a phrase which could possibly be construed as denigrating his intelligence "on the internet" is the epitome of the above. I did not "wander back into the forum" - I was just censored from participating. I wouldn't be surprised if the mere fact of pointing this out will get me censored again. Oh well...

Complaining about the moderation policies on the Diner is also a VIOLATION of the CoC.  :icon_sunny:  So is insinuating I am stupid and don't consider the arguments from all sides fairly and with due diligence. I am a very patient guy in general.  I will in this case be Magnanimous & Kind  ;D and not send you back to the Cooler for this one.  I'm sure you can figure out what pushes my buttons and steer clear of me if you want to participate in good faith.  I can't speak for Surly of course.

Don't fuck with me Watson.  Next time I push the Ban Button on you, it's a Permanent Vacation from the Diner.

http://www.youtube.com/v/72u0-D5JJ_k

http://www.youtube.com/v/L7AM9wigmpw

RE
Title: These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom t
Post by: agelbert on October 30, 2018, 04:37:37 PM
Another Apologist for neofascism making the talk show rounds. This shit is going to gain NO traction here.

Libertarians eat this shit💩 up like it was Chocolate Ice Cream🍦 and not Shit💩.

RE


Yeah,  I totally get that.

The thing is that, as I've been saying long before I ever heard of Jordan Peterson, the liberal side has gone off the rails on the whole identity politics issue.  It's a fair critique, and until liberals find some honesty on that, they can't get white working class votes. That's done.

You can call Peterson every name in the book, but if you can find a single instance of him being actually wrong on the facts, please feel free to share it with me.

I've watched hours of his videos on a range of subjects, and the guy is a real scholar, and better read than anyone any one of us, or anyone we know.

He isn't even right wing. Like me, he's fairly apolitical. The special people came after him, not vice versa, and they bit off way more than they could chew.

It always amuses the fuck out of me when people claim that "the liberal side has gone off the rails on the whole identity politics issue" when the prevaricator on the Potomac has made identity politics his standard, his war cry and rallying cry! 11 lay dead and another MAGAt assailant tried to decapitate the senior leadership of the Dems last week with a series of pipe bombs. But we're supposed to feel bad because Mitch McConnell can't finish his soup, or that Gavin McInnes is going to have an event in Mamaroneck to call attention to his presence?

He's a big attacker of "political correctness," which is one of your personal hobbyhorses. "Political correctness" is a right wing epithet borrowed from analysis of communism to label assertions of rights of the traditionally dispossessed. And the people who gold all the power are ill inclined to grant any rights to anyone but themselves, so "political correctness" is what the privileged minority calls it when the oppressed are sick and tired of putting up with your shit.

Fell free to eat his shit with a spoon. I will not. You love that Peterson has criticized the use of the term "white privilege", stating that "being called out on their white privilege... and then made to suffer the consequences of the existence of that racial group and its hypothetical crimes, is... racist in its extreme"

I disagree.

And I am not going to allow Ashvin to wander back into the forum, squat, and take a healthy, Jordan Peterson shit, knowing that it will do nothing but divide the members and sow discord, any more than I will allow his spiritual lodestar to tweet about suspending "birthright citizenship" and distract voters from what the upcoming election is really about.

(http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-111018132400-1685431.gif)   

Well said!  (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-130418202709.png)

The POS people, like Peterson, who would wholeheartedly support the elimination of Medicare and Social Security for EVERYONE, not just the "off the rails" (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-250718202127.gif) liberals, without blinking an eye, are TEXTBOOK FASCIST ENABLERS.

I might add that a sizeable number of right wing "Christians" are okay with that SHIT. Those "Christians", are actually Antinomian Heretics. A lot of them are lawyers, too. ;D They have a not so secret love of MONEY. They will enthusiastically support ANY leader (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-270117175421.png), no matter how Fascist or otherwise morally despicable, who promises to get them MORE MONEY. Virtually all those Pseudo-Christians supporting Trump ARE Antinomian Heretics. They are the bullshit artists pushing the "prosperity gospel" while they brazenly claim that they do NOT need to follow ANY moral code because, uh, JESUS "has all that covered". NO He DOESN'T!

Donald Trump (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-270117175421.png) and the prosperity (http://www.smilies.4-user.de/include/Spiele/smilie_game_017.gif)(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-311013200859.png)gospel

Robert Harrington (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-120818185037-16412296.gif) | 12:12 pm EDT October 10, 2018

Palmer Report » Analysis

When last year CNN fired sometime commentator and full time religious studies scholar Reza Aslan for tweeting that Donald Trump was a “piece of s h i t,” one was left to wonder if it was because he employed a profanity in describing the President of the United States, or merely because he committed the journalistic heresy of stating the obvious. Whichever it was, one cannot also help but wonder if CNN knew not what it did. For it was also about that time that Aslan put his perspicacious finger on the not-so-obvious reasons why “the Donald” has gathered unto himself so rabid a following, and how, after all this time, that following appears to have remained bafflingly loyal.

The good news is the aforementioned following we are concerned with here is at least confined to the pulpits and pews of white fundamentalist Christians. Were it not for Aslan, the question of why Trump should gain such popularity with such a group might remain an ostensible head scratcher. But for this recipe for Dragon Stew, Aslan actually provides us with a plausible dragon: Donald Trump is a religious cult.

That cult comes compliments of something called “the prosperity gospel.” The idea goes that the more righteous a man is, the more God blesses him with material wealth. Trump’s ostentatious trappings of wealth are the obvious proof that God must think Trump a pretty groovy guy.

Some of the cynical among us noticed that “the prosperity gospel” started to appear right around the same time that the dorsal fins of the big-haired, Rolex-wearing televangelists started to cut the water. Mansions needed sanctification, luxury cars and private jets required the consecration of Elijah’s chariots of fire. The prosperity gospel gave the perfect fit.

“But none of this … explains the most important phenomenon about white evangelicals in America,” Aslan says, “and that is this: In the span of a single election cycle, white evangelicals have gone from being the group in America that is most likely to say that a politician’s morality matters to the group that is now least likely to say that.”

In other words, the cult of personality surrounding Donald Trump has managed in a single election cycle to convince good people that doing bad things is okay. The last time we witnessed a phenomenon like that was when a community of Americans settled in a little regarded country called Guyana led by a little known evangelical named Jim Jones. This time the stakes are much, much higher.

Click here to help fund Palmer Report's editorial effort to take Donald Trump down

Be sure to follow Palmer Report on Facebook and Twitter, and sign up for our mailing list.

Robert Harrington  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png) is an American expat living in Britain. He is a portrait painter.


https://www.palmerreport.com/analysis/prosperity-gospel-donald-trump/13333/ (https://www.palmerreport.com/analysis/prosperity-gospel-donald-trump/13333/)

Agelbert NOTE: The Heretical Doctrine of Demons called "Prosperity Preaching" (a principle tenet of the Antinomian Christian Heretical teaching), that the pseudo-Christians in the USA are enthralled with, is thousands of years old.

Quote
an·ti·no·mi·an
[an-ti- noh-mee- uhn]

NOUN

a person who maintains that Christians are freed from the moral law by virtue of grace as set forth in the gospel.

I have a deceased brother-in-law who worshipped monetary wealth above any Christian duty to help the disadvantaged and poor of this world. He thought it was A-OKAY to be GREEDY, as his wife (my sister, also a Mammon worshipping Pseudo-Christian) still, unfortunately for her, does.

In the Epistle II Peter in the New Testament, Peter addresses the Antinomians who claimed to be Christians. These Heretics were defined by their insistance that it was okay to sin to get more money and wantonly engage in just about any worldly lust they wanted to engage in based on a deliberate twisting of the Holy Scripture (SEE Paul: "We are saved by Grace, not works"). 

Peter makes it crystal clear that claiming to be a Christian and chasing money, comfort, power and the lusts of the flesh is HERESY. Anyone practicing it is doomed to perdition, period.

Quote
II PETER 2: 17-22

17  These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. 18  For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean [5] escaped from them who live in error. 19  While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20  For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21  For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22  But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

(https://ofcommonsense.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/free-choice-not-consequences.jpg)
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on October 30, 2018, 04:48:57 PM
Just came across a new interview with JP - I will say that, so far, it is the best interview done by someone who holds radical leftist positions. You can tell she is has read and listened to Peterson (somewhat carefully), and that she is actually listening to his responses carefully. There is an actual conversation and dialogue happening between two people who hold very different beliefs about the world.
Well done!

http://www.youtube.com/v/yZYQpge1W5s
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: azozeo on October 30, 2018, 05:09:29 PM
Ideological possession on full display. Skip to about 30 min if you want to here Peterson talk uninterrupted:

http://www.youtube.com/v/3dSjbBmHOOE


Stellar  :icon_sunny:  display of herd mentality Ashvin. Drive em' off the cliff, for shits & giggles.
 
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Surly1 on October 31, 2018, 04:17:24 AM

Complaining about the moderation policies on the Diner is also a VIOLATION of the CoC.  :icon_sunny:  So is insinuating I am stupid and don't consider the arguments from all sides fairly and with due diligence. I am a very patient guy in general.  I will in this case be Magnanimous & Kind  ;D and not send you back to the Cooler for this one.  I'm sure you can figure out what pushes my buttons and steer clear of me if you want to participate in good faith.  I can't speak for Surly of course.

Happy to speak for myself.

People who contribute to the Diner often post on a variety of issues. Ashvin posts on one, and one alone: the one that he knows will sow division and conflict.

I have seen this movie before, a couple of years ago when MKing, GO, JoeP and some others engaged in elaborate pearl clutching over some IP checks and went on some tear about online surveillance, conflating that with freedom of speech, etc. Always instructive to see how ideologues are keenly interested in freedom of their speech, while if yours is impinged, go fuck yourself with a hammer.

When I asked Ashvin why he disavowed his earlier writings and went to the lengths of attempting to "scrub" his online identity free of associations with topics of doom and collapse, he replied that he no longer believed those things. Which makes it interesting as to why he would be interested in posting in something called the "Doomstead Diner" and devoted to such topics. Although, as noted, he only posts on one.

Something doesn't smell right.
Title: Re: These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom t
Post by: Ashvin on October 31, 2018, 06:41:29 AM

The POS people, like Peterson, who would wholeheartedly support the elimination of Medicare and Social Security for EVERYONE, not just the "off the rails" (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-250718202127.gif) liberals, without blinking an eye, are TEXTBOOK FASCIST ENABLERS.

Another ardent critic of the "fascist" Peterson who hasn't read or listened to him. You guys write like you have been studying the guy for years and have become experts, but the content of you're writing betrays that you have barely looked into him for more than few minutes.

What is a stated above is FALSE - he has never said anything about eliminating Medicare or Social Security that I'm aware of. If you can come up with evidence to the contrary, we are happy to look at it. But we're not holding our breath.

The rest of your rant is completely irrelevant to this topic so I will ignore it.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on October 31, 2018, 06:49:15 AM

Complaining about the moderation policies on the Diner is also a VIOLATION of the CoC.  :icon_sunny:  So is insinuating I am stupid and don't consider the arguments from all sides fairly and with due diligence. I am a very patient guy in general.  I will in this case be Magnanimous & Kind  ;D and not send you back to the Cooler for this one.  I'm sure you can figure out what pushes my buttons and steer clear of me if you want to participate in good faith.  I can't speak for Surly of course.

Happy to speak for myself.

People who contribute to the Diner often post on a variety of issues. Ashvin posts on one, and one alone: the one that he knows will sow division and conflict.

I have seen this movie before, a couple of years ago when MKing, GO, JoeP and some others engaged in elaborate pearl clutching over some IP checks and went on some tear about online surveillance, conflating that with freedom of speech, etc. Always instructive to see how ideologues are keenly interested in freedom of their speech, while if yours is impinged, go fuck yourself with a hammer.

When I asked Ashvin why he disavowed his earlier writings and went to the lengths of attempting to "scrub" his online identity free of associations with topics of doom and collapse, he replied that he no longer believed those things. Which makes it interesting as to why he would be interested in posting in something called the "Doomstead Diner" and devoted to such topics. Although, as noted, he only posts on one.

Something doesn't smell right.

So what? Do I have to post on a variety of topics to have the right to post or to be free from suspicion of your paranoid accusations.

Is it too much to ask that people here actually listen to each other's perspectives and attempt to engage in meaningful dialogue before putting on their ideological hats and condemning anyone and everything that doesn't fit with their a priori ideological axioms? That's all I want. For people to discuss/debate the FACTS and EVIDENCE when it comes to these divisive political and social issues from a relatively objective perspective.

We have at least Eddie, GO and I trying to doing that here, which is a small minority to be sure, but it's something. Anyone else care to stand for reasonable, respectful and honest dialogue about these topics? To leave their ideological garb at the door and come in with an intent to discuss in good faith? If so, please do.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on October 31, 2018, 09:39:07 AM
I'm debating whether I want to waste my time here anymore. I enjoy writing, and RE has been kind to me to let me say anything I think, but at this point, I'm questioning whether I want to participate at all anymore.

My writing doesn't seem to really help anybody. Mostly it's entertainment for me, but it has given me a real Ambrose Bierce POV about the readership I get. I'm somewhere between him and H.L. Mencken in my assessment of the average American.

You can't fix stupid.

Everyone has an agenda.

Victims will hang on to their sacred shibboleths to their dying breath. Rationalization, justification and laying blame are the most common human behaviors.

Of the people who come here, the only ones I like talking to anymore are the hardcore preppers. and they don't need me at all. At this point  I just have a writing jones I need to wean myself off of.



Title: Ashvin's Intellectual Darkness
Post by: agelbert on October 31, 2018, 11:06:23 AM

The POS people, like Peterson, who would wholeheartedly support the elimination of Medicare and Social Security for EVERYONE, not just the "off the rails" (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-250718202127.gif) liberals, without blinking an eye, are TEXTBOOK FASCIST ENABLERS.

Another ardent critic of the "fascist" Peterson who hasn't read or listened to him. You guys write like you have been studying the guy for years and have become experts, but the content of you're writing betrays that you have barely looked into him for more than few minutes.

What is a stated above is FALSE - he has never said anything about eliminating Medicare or Social Security that I'm aware of. If you can come up with evidence to the contrary, we are happy to look at it. But we're not holding our breath.

The rest of your rant is completely irrelevant to this topic so I will ignore it.

(http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-300416161529.png)

Ashvin, please continue to "ignore" my "irrelevant" posts by POSTING a reply stating that you are, uh, simply insulting  (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-311013201314.png) me while studiously "ignoring" me. (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-220216203149.gif)

YOU are the fine fellow that couldn't be bothered with reading my "behemoth" (your words!) article(s) several years ago, but here you are harping on people, as is your sophist wont, who "won't think deeply" or "bother to watch some video(s) you posted". THAT is textbook PROJECTION.

It is also a fallacious debating technique, but I'll let RE and Surly deal with your baseless complaints.

You have a track record, Ashvin, of NOT being objective on a plethora of issues. You have consistently sided with authoritarian (i.e. RIGHT WING = NeoFascist to Fascist) political and financial positions deleterious to the well being of the poor, minorities AND the average citizen in the USA of any color or ethnicty. You try to hide from it (as Surly noted) with some present guise of objectivity (see fallacious debating techniques), but it is generally accepted among people of average intelligence that if Ashvin walks and talks like a duck, (etc.). Most who post here are several points above average, so you will always have a difficult time playing your sophistic mind games in this forum.

As to your claim that I am lying, let us clear the air. YOU admire and support Peterson's "deep thinking" POV. THAT alone tells anyone with two brain cells two rub together that you and Peterson are birds of a political feather.

That doesn't mean you think alike in all areas, but, as Surly intimated, it produces a telling metaphorical (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191329.bmp) odor. The "odor" has some characteristics that you can deny until the cows come home, but no one can take you seriously when you engage in said denials.

The tem "Politically Correct", when espoused, defended or originated by anyone (e.g. Jordan Peterson) is prima facie evidence of RACIST BIGOTRY. I am experienced hearing those too clever by a half ASSHOLES making the clever jokes and snide remarks about being "politically correct" in places I have worked. You KNOW THEM BY THEIR hateful, derisve, sarcastic, scorn filled FRUIT.   

In addition, Jordan Peterson does a lot of word twisting to get people to reject good government. Good government is what gave us Social Security AND Medicare. I stand by my previous statement that Jordan Peterson would DEFINITELY APPLAUD the elimination of these vital programs that HONOR the Lord Jesus Christ's teachings.

Thie following is a quote from an intelligent fellow who sees through Jordan Peterson's clever rhetoric.
Quote
Jordan Peterson: The social structure is corrupt and incomplete

Quote
Jimmy Owen

Social structures will NEVER be perfect, because they're complex and made up of people, and because they must balance competing but equally important values in an ever-changing world (e.g. freedom vs. security, rights vs. responsibilities, progress vs. stability, etc.) But social structures ARE necessary and valuable, and some are FAR better than others, so it's not axiomatic that you should tear them down.  American and Canadian societies, for example, are among the best, and most free EVER to have existed.  So, gain an honest understanding of their relative merits, and propose a BETTER ALTERNATIVE before you try to tear them down out of self-righteous indignation at the way you naively perceive things to be.

Proposing the DESTRUCTION of social structures is precisely what FASCISTS DO. ANYONE, like Jordan Peterson, wanting to take apart our social structures will enthusiastically support the elimination of social Security AND Medicare. You called me a liar, Ashvin. You are the liar.

(http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-110818141759.jpeg)



Jordan Peterson is just one more large vocabulary stalking horse for FASCISM.

Quote
Proverbs 12:18 “There is that speaketh like the piercings of a sword: but the tongue of the wise is health.”

You and Peterson are among those that speaketh like the piercings of a sword. Have a nice day, Antinomian Heretic.
Title: Who is Jordan Peterson? HINT: The Koch 🦕 Brothers fund him
Post by: agelbert on October 31, 2018, 02:48:01 PM
(https://www.dailydot.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/jordan-peterson.jpg)
Jordan Peterson is BOUGHT AND PAID FOR by the Koch Brothers

Who is Jordan Peterson 😈, the ‘alt-right’ darling of YouTube?

Brenden Gallagher— Apr 30 at 2:00AM | Last updated Apr 30 at 8:45AM

SNIPPET:

If you hang around intellectuals or academics long enough, one of them will make the joke that they wish they were conservative (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-250718205808.gif) because there is a lot more money in it. Jordan Peterson (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-250718205137.gif) is living proof of that.

The Koch Brothers and the Heritage Foundation are eager to fund and promote the brightest minds conservatism has to offer. They intend to use the free market language of the right, there is a high demand for “intellectuals” who will defend conservative ideas, but there is a very low supply.

So if you’re wondering how 55-year-old Canadian psychology professor Jordan B. Peterson became an overnight sensation, going from obscure academic to international bestseller lauded in the New York Times 👹 as “most influential public intellectual in the Western world right now,” (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-191017140758.jpeg) you don’t have to look much further than that old academic joke.

Jordan Peterson is famous because in the era of the resurgent alt-right, the loose collection of conservatives that align with white supremacists, there are few intellectuals willing to align themselves with the movement. The alt-right is in need of intellectuals to justify their fascist worldview, and Peterson has been ready.

Full article:

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/jordan-peterson/ (https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/jordan-peterson/)

Agelbert NOTE: I repeat, Jordan Peterson is a stalking horse for FASCISM. He  enthusiastically supports the Koch Brothers push to get Trump (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/styles/renewablerevolution/files/780_9adc777a0e08428257b76ece69d18ee52006bb5e39d60d966bb2440d29d17641.jpeg) and his wreckng crew (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-130418203402.gif) to eliminate Social Security and Medicare.

Ashvin, like Jordan Peterson, is also a Fascist Enabler, as well as a serial liar.


(http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-111018132421-16902.gif)
Title: Re: Who is Jordan Peterson? HINT: The Koch 🦕 Brothers fund him
Post by: Eddie on October 31, 2018, 04:52:22 PM
(https://www.dailydot.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/jordan-peterson.jpg)
Jordan Peterson is BOUGHT AND PAID FOR by the Koch Brothers

Who is Jordan Peterson 😈, the ‘alt-right’ darling of YouTube?

Brenden Gallagher— Apr 30 at 2:00AM | Last updated Apr 30 at 8:45AM

SNIPPET:

If you hang around intellectuals or academics long enough, one of them will make the joke that they wish they were conservative (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-250718205808.gif) because there is a lot more money in it. Jordan Peterson (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-250718205137.gif) is living proof of that.

The Koch Brothers and the Heritage Foundation are eager to fund and promote the brightest minds conservatism has to offer. They intend to use the free market language of the right, there is a high demand for “intellectuals” who will defend conservative ideas, but there is a very low supply.

So if you’re wondering how 55-year-old Canadian psychology professor Jordan B. Peterson became an overnight sensation, going from obscure academic to international bestseller lauded in the New York Times 👹 as “most influential public intellectual in the Western world right now,” (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-191017140758.jpeg) you don’t have to look much further than that old academic joke.

Jordan Peterson is famous because in the era of the resurgent alt-right, the loose collection of conservatives that align with white supremacists, there are few intellectuals willing to align themselves with the movement. The alt-right is in need of intellectuals to justify their fascist worldview, and Peterson has been ready.

Full article:

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/jordan-peterson/ (https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/jordan-peterson/)

Agelbert NOTE: I repeat, Jordan Peterson is a stalking horse for FASCISM. He  enthusiastically supports the Koch Brothers push to get Trump (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/styles/renewablerevolution/files/780_9adc777a0e08428257b76ece69d18ee52006bb5e39d60d966bb2440d29d17641.jpeg) and his wreckng crew (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-130418203402.gif) to eliminate Social Security and Medicare.

Ashvin, like Jordan Peterson, is also a Fascist Enabler, as well as a serial liar.


(http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-111018132421-16902.gif)

I read your reference, and I hereby pronounce you to be a Lying Sack Of Shit. There is absolutely not one shred of proof that this is true...AT ALL.

Yor are making shit up to fit a false narrative, probably because you know I won't take it lying down. No, actually, you are repeating reprehensible  lies you read elsewhere, because you don't have enough sense to pour piss out of a boot.

So put up or shut up.  Show me where Charlie Koch paid JP. The article is a slimy hit piece that just makes a few innuendos. It's pure spin.

I get it that the alt-right LIKES Jordan Peterson. I get that Marxist assholes (like you maybe) would love to paint him with the fascist label.

Unfortunately for you and them, JP has dozens of interviews and videos up that, if you are willing to watch them, tell you exactly who he is and what he believes. So...there is plenty of evidence out there to completely refute this bogus claim.

He's a hard working social scientist with excellent credentials who teaches good courses at a decent university. He wrote a best-selling book that is best selling because it gets bought by people who WANT to READ it. Like any writer hawking a book, he speaks in public all over the place, and it's true the right wing assholes think he's great.

So what?

You think you can come here and post flat out lies and get away with it now because Surly is on your side?

Au contraire. This will not stand.

I thought you were probably dead, since you stopped coming around. Are you off your meds or something? Get a fuckin' grip.

Here's a hint. Not everything posted on 4Channel or the Socialist Worker website happens to be fact based.

Take it down, or I will bury you so deep in facts you'll choke on 'em.

Take it down NOW.

I'm not fucking around here. If this is to be allowed to stand, I will leave and not come back.

Has the Diner turned into a site that allows people to freely post slander as long as it meets the criteria of having a commie slant?

Prove it or crawl back under your fuckin' rock. Show me the money.





   
Title: Re: Who is Jordan Peterson? HINT: The Koch 🦕 Brothers fund him
Post by: RE on October 31, 2018, 05:52:47 PM
I'm not fucking around here. If this is to be allowed to stand, I will leave and not come back.

You're an Admin.  Take it down yourself if you feel that strongly about it.  To be fair though if you do that, you should also take down all the JP Ass Kissing posts that have gone up in the last few days as well.

And what's with all the Threaten-to-Quit posts you are making these days?  It seems like everything ticks you off so much you gotta threaten to quit all the time.  I advise you take a chill pill or start drinking again.  Mellow out.

RE
Title: Re: Who is Jordan Peterson? HINT: The Koch 🦕 Brothers fund him
Post by: K-Dog on October 31, 2018, 08:20:26 PM
(https://www.dailydot.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/jordan-peterson.jpg)
Jordan Peterson is BOUGHT AND PAID FOR by the Koch Brothers

Who is Jordan Peterson 😈, the ‘alt-right’ darling of YouTube?

Brenden Gallagher— Apr 30 at 2:00AM | Last updated Apr 30 at 8:45AM

SNIPPET:

If you hang around intellectuals or academics long enough, one of them will make the joke that they wish they were conservative (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-250718205808.gif) because there is a lot more money in it. Jordan Peterson (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-250718205137.gif) is living proof of that.

The Koch Brothers and the Heritage Foundation are eager to fund and promote the brightest minds conservatism has to offer. They intend to use the free market language of the right, there is a high demand for “intellectuals” who will defend conservative ideas, but there is a very low supply.

So if you’re wondering how 55-year-old Canadian psychology professor Jordan B. Peterson became an overnight sensation, going from obscure academic to international bestseller lauded in the New York Times 👹 as “most influential public intellectual in the Western world right now,” (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-191017140758.jpeg) you don’t have to look much further than that old academic joke.

Jordan Peterson is famous because in the era of the resurgent alt-right, the loose collection of conservatives that align with white supremacists, there are few intellectuals willing to align themselves with the movement. The alt-right is in need of intellectuals to justify their fascist worldview, and Peterson has been ready.

Full article:

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/jordan-peterson/ (https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/jordan-peterson/)

Agelbert NOTE: I repeat, Jordan Peterson is a stalking horse for FASCISM. He  enthusiastically supports the Koch Brothers push to get Trump (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/styles/renewablerevolution/files/780_9adc777a0e08428257b76ece69d18ee52006bb5e39d60d966bb2440d29d17641.jpeg) and his wreckng crew (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-130418203402.gif) to eliminate Social Security and Medicare.

Ashvin, like Jordan Peterson, is also a Fascist Enabler, as well as a serial liar.


(http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-111018132421-16902.gif)

I read your reference, and I hereby pronounce you to be a Lying Sack Of Shit. There is absolutely not one shred of proof that this is true...AT ALL.

Yor are making shit up to fit a false narrative, probably because you know I won't take it lying down. No, actually, you are repeating reprehensible  lies you read elsewhere, because you don't have enough sense to pour piss out of a boot.

So put up or shut up.  Show me where Charlie Koch paid JP. The article is a slimy hit piece that just makes a few innuendos. It's pure spin.

I get it that the alt-right LIKES Jordan Peterson. I get that Marxist assholes (like you maybe) would love to paint him with the fascist label.

Unfortunately for you and them, JP has dozens of interviews and videos up that, if you are willing to watch them, tell you exactly who he is and what he believes. So...there is plenty of evidence out there to completely refute this bogus claim.

He's a hard working social scientist with excellent credentials who teaches good courses at a decent university. He wrote a best-selling book that is best selling because it gets bought by people who WANT to READ it. Like any writer hawking a book, he speaks in public all over the place, and it's true the right wing assholes think he's great.

So what?

You think you can come here and post flat out lies and get away with it now because Surly is on your side?

Au contraire. This will not stand.

I thought you were probably dead, since you stopped coming around. Are you off your meds or something? Get a fuckin' grip.

Here's a hint. Not everything posted on 4Channel or the Socialist Worker website happens to be fact based.

Take it down, or I will bury you so deep in facts you'll choke on 'em.

Take it down NOW.

I'm not fucking around here. If this is to be allowed to stand, I will leave and not come back.

Has the Diner turned into a site that allows people to freely post slander as long as it meets the criteria of having a commie slant?

Prove it or crawl back under your fuckin' rock. Show me the money.





 

There is something about Peterson that everybody has an issue with.  But that's true with everyone else too.

But it's all right now, I learned my lesson well
You see, ya can't please everyone, so ya got to please yourself


Agelbert goes off the deep end whenever he sees something he doesn't like.  Then he makes outrageous judgements. That is how his ride rolls.  Typically he will accuse people of being the exact opposite of what they tend towards.  In his mind he is like a fear aggressive dog that reacts to 'phoniness' even when it is not actually there.

To bad he can't check himself.  If I was thinking the Kocks paid Peterson off and could not produce any proof I think I would be in need of some serious mental help.

Agelbert's lie is pretty outrageous and has no amusement value at all.  Peterson himself is not amused by those who have tried to claim him as their own and has made statements to clarify he does not embrace alt-right politics.  His conservatism, if it can be called that and it really should not, comes from years of dealing with people with psychological issues and from hard scientific investigation.  Peterson challenges unfounded claims of all political persuasions but he is at is best when he avoids politics altogether.  His understanding of socialism is poor.  His understanding of people and their psychological needs is outstanding.

Perhaps all Agelberts posts need to be approved until he develops a rudimentary skill in checking out the facts his noggin comes up with before he spews.

Title: Re: Who is Jordan Peterson? HINT: The Koch 🦕 Brothers fund him
Post by: Ashvin on October 31, 2018, 08:26:04 PM
I'm not fucking around here. If this is to be allowed to stand, I will leave and not come back.

You're an Admin.  Take it down yourself if you feel that strongly about it.  To be fair though if you do that, you should also take down all the JP Ass Kissing posts that have gone up in the last few days as well.

And what's with all the Threaten-to-Quit posts you are making these days?  It seems like everything ticks you off so much you gotta threaten to quit all the time.  I advise you take a chill pill or start drinking again.  Mellow out.

RE

Let me ask one simple question here - did nothing in AGs latest post about me violate your CoC? Nothing? If not, please explain why not. If so, please explain why he isn't getting so much as a warning. Thank you.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Nearingsfault on October 31, 2018, 08:30:35 PM
I'm debating whether I want to waste my time here anymore. I enjoy writing, and RE has been kind to me to let me say anything I think, but at this point, I'm questioning whether I want to participate at all anymore.

My writing doesn't seem to really help anybody. Mostly it's entertainment for me, but it has given me a real Ambrose Bierce POV about the readership I get. I'm somewhere between him and H.L. Mencken in my assessment of the average American.

You can't fix stupid.

Everyone has an agenda.

Victims will hang on to their sacred shibboleths to their dying breath. Rationalization, justification and laying blame are the most common human behaviors.

Of the people who come here, the only ones I like talking to anymore are the hardcore preppers. and they don't need me at all. At this point  I just have a writing jones I need to wean myself off of.
I read everything you post Eddie. Most I agree with, some require a bit of research to figure out what the hell you are talking about to figure out if I agree, that's good too. Its important for a skills junkie like me to appreciate the larger economical picture and learn to use it. I'm younger then most here I think. I'm too busy "Adapting" as C5 would call it to reply or engage most of the time.  I call it trying to get through this world socially and financially as the ground shifts around us and mostly turns to shit. I know many people like myself who don't even bother with online contributions. I actually mostly like this place but it has become clear that If you say ANYTHING out of line with some of the posters original spin they will use their seemingly endless amounts of free time to hound you and proceed to call it debate. If you don't spend the time countering endless angels on pins arguments they claim "victory". In actuality I was working to make money to pay for an ever more expensive society, feeding my kids, reading stories, doing homework, fixing something I have no money to replace, gardening because what you buy is expensive and toxic, cutting wood to heat the house because the climate is turning to shit and fossil fuels are expensive and are killing us, trying to take online courses to stay current in an industry moving at lightning speed while they tappety tap tapped away on the keyboard. 
I'm annoyed tonight
Cheers,  David
Title: Re: Who is Jordan Peterson? HINT: The Koch 🦕 Brothers fund him
Post by: Ashvin on October 31, 2018, 08:35:01 PM


Take it down NOW.

I'm not fucking around here. If this is to be allowed to stand, I will leave and not come back.

Has the Diner turned into a site that allows people to freely post slander as long as it meets the criteria of having a commie slant?

Prove it or crawl back under your fuckin' rock. Show me the money.

Eddie, we both know you are 100% right about AG and his disingenuous postings. He is blinded and possessed by radical liberal conspiracy ideology, which is the worst kind of ideology to be possessed by, so it's hard to say whether it's disingenuous or not.

Either way, I don't your suggestion to force him to take it down is the appropriate one. It's much better to let the misguided posters with no facts, evidence or coherent arguments to put their BS out in the open for all to see. It's hard for anyone to read AG's posts and come away thinking he is well-informed or knows what he's talking about on this topic - and that's a great thing for other readers. We want people like AG to bury their own credibility under the layers of muck they post. So I say you let him keep the post up and post even more about the Koch brothers funding JP if he wants - it's just more nails in the coffin of his credibility.
Title: Re: Ashvin's Intellectual Darkness
Post by: Ashvin on October 31, 2018, 08:43:47 PM

Thie following is a quote from an intelligent fellow who sees through Jordan Peterson's clever rhetoric.
Quote
Jordan Peterson: The social structure is corrupt and incomplete

Quote
Jimmy Owen

Social structures will NEVER be perfect, because they're complex and made up of people, and because they must balance competing but equally important values in an ever-changing world (e.g. freedom vs. security, rights vs. responsibilities, progress vs. stability, etc.) But social structures ARE necessary and valuable, and some are FAR better than others, so it's not axiomatic that you should tear them down.  American and Canadian societies, for example, are among the best, and most free EVER to have existed.  So, gain an honest understanding of their relative merits, and propose a BETTER ALTERNATIVE before you try to tear them down out of self-righteous indignation at the way you naively perceive things to be.

Proposing the DESTRUCTION of social structures is precisely what FASCISTS DO. ANYONE, like Jordan Peterson, wanting to take apart our social structures will enthusiastically support the elimination of social Security AND Medicare. You called me a liar, Ashvin. You are the liar.

In your confused and elderly state, I believe you may have actually quoted Peterson on social structures - the part about "American and Canadian societies, for example, are among the best and most free EVER to have existed" is exactly something he would say and support. Peterson is absolutely AGAINST tearing down Western culture or social structures - which is exactly what the postmodern, neomarxist radical left wants to do.

Now will AG have the courage to admit he was DEAD WRONG about this and also the Koch funding thing? I highly doubt it. And if you aren't willing to confront your OBVIOUS intellectual mistakes when they are pointed out to you by two different people, and instead you hold fast to those debunked arguments, then you are no better than someone who was LYING in the first place.
Title: Re: Who is Jordan Peterson? HINT: The Koch 🦕 Brothers fund him
Post by: Ashvin on October 31, 2018, 08:53:40 PM

Agelbert's lie is pretty outrageous and has no amusement value at all.  Peterson himself is not amused by those who have tried to claim him as their own and has made statements to clarify he does not embrace alt-right politics.  His conservatism, if it can be called that and it really should not, comes from years of dealing with people with psychological issues and from hard scientific investigation.  Peterson challenges unfounded claims of all political persuasions but he is at is best when he avoids politics altogether.  His understanding of socialism is poor.  His understanding of people and their psychological needs is outstanding.

Perhaps all Agelberts posts need to be approved until he develops a rudimentary skill in checking out the facts his noggin comes up with before he spews.

It's not only that he does not embrace alt-right politics - the true alt-right groups in our society, i.e. ethno-nationalists and white supremacists, have outright attacked Jordan Peterson and show no love for him whatsoever.

I would question the idea that "his understanding of socialism is poor", since he literally spent decades investigating the catastrophes of the 20th century, including those of the Soviet Union and Maoist China among other places. I think he has a GREAT understanding, and even empathy, towards socialism, which is why he is able to critique it so well. He just doesn't go into very fine historial detail often, which is not the same as him not being aware of those fine historical details.

Other than that, agree with you completely KD!
Title: Re: Who is Jordan Peterson? HINT: The Koch 🦕 Brothers fund him
Post by: K-Dog on October 31, 2018, 10:09:29 PM
Agelbert NOTE: I repeat, Jordan Peterson is a stalking horse for FASCISM. He  enthusiastically supports the Koch Brothers push to get Trump (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/styles/renewablerevolution/files/780_9adc777a0e08428257b76ece69d18ee52006bb5e39d60d966bb2440d29d17641.jpeg) and his wreckng crew (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-130418203402.gif) to eliminate Social Security and Medicare.

Ashvin, like Jordan Peterson, is also a Fascist Enabler, as well as a serial liar.



Returning to the (https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iur/?f=1&image_host=https%3A%2F%2F38.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_m7sv6q0c6s1r62d6to1_500.gif&u=https://78.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7sv6q0c6s1r62d6to1_500.gif) smoking (https://emojipedia-us.s3.dualstack.us-west-1.amazonaws.com/thumbs/120/emojione/151/pistol_1f52b.png) gun.

Ashvin, like Xxxxxx Xxxxxxxx, is also a Fascist Enabler, as well as a serial liar.

Ashvin is a member of this forum.  It is a violation of our code of conduct to insult another member like this.
Title: Re: Who is Jordan Peterson? HINT: The Koch 🦕 Brothers fund him
Post by: RE on November 01, 2018, 12:05:19 AM
I'm not fucking around here. If this is to be allowed to stand, I will leave and not come back.

You're an Admin.  Take it down yourself if you feel that strongly about it.  To be fair though if you do that, you should also take down all the JP Ass Kissing posts that have gone up in the last few days as well.

And what's with all the Threaten-to-Quit posts you are making these days?  It seems like everything ticks you off so much you gotta threaten to quit all the time.  I advise you take a chill pill or start drinking again.  Mellow out.

RE

Let me ask one simple question here - did nothing in AGs latest post about me violate your CoC? Nothing? If not, please explain why not. If so, please explain why he isn't getting so much as a warning. Thank you.

AG did get a Warning from Eddie.  He's an Admin.  A warning from me was unnecessary.

RE
Title: Re: Who is Jordan Peterson? HINT: The Koch 🦕 Brothers fund him
Post by: RE on November 01, 2018, 12:23:30 AM
Ashvin is a member of this forum.  It is a violation of our code of conduct to insult another member like this.

Where's the insult?  Fascist is just a label for a political belief system, like Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Socialist or Communist.  You can call me a Communist even though I am not now, nor have I ever been a member of the Communist Party.  However, it's true that some aspects of my belief system are congruent with Communism.  Similarly, Watson's belief system has much in common with Fascism.  For one thing, he believes in Capitalism which is just Fascism with Window Dressing.  "Fascist Lite" so to speak.  For another, he's a Trumpovetsky supporter, which automatically makes him Fascistic.  Third, he is a Fundy Christian, which also is Fascist.  I am not insulting Watson if I call him a Fundy, it is what he is.  He believes the Bible is the literal Word of God, Jesus Christ was the Flesh & Blood Son of God, Noah saved all the animals in the world from a literal Flood, all of humanity descended from Adam & Eve, and the ONLY way to Eternal Salvation is through buying Jesus as the Son of God.  That is Fundy Christianity in a nutshell.

AG didn't even call Watson a Fascist though, just a Fascist Enabler.  Which given the positions he takes in his posting, he is.  Not a very effective enabler since he is such a failure as a blogger, but an enabler nonetheless.

The Diner has a full spectrum of political belief systems represented, there are Libertarians, Socialists, Fascists and Communists here to one extent or the other.  If you perceive a Diner to fit one of these categories, it's not an insult to label them as such.  It's just what you perceive as their political beliefs represented in their posting.

RE
Title: Jordan Peterson’s federal funding denied, Rebel Media picks up the tab
Post by: RE on November 01, 2018, 12:28:04 AM
https://thevarsity.ca/2017/05/01/jordan-petersons-federal-funding-denied-rebel-media-picks-up-the-tab/ (https://thevarsity.ca/2017/05/01/jordan-petersons-federal-funding-denied-rebel-media-picks-up-the-tab/)

Jordan Peterson’s federal funding denied, Rebel Media picks up the tab

Controversial psychology professor has funding proposal rejected for first time

(https://thevarsity.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/NEWS_Jordan_Doug_Ezra-STEVEN_LEETHE_VARSITY-GenScrewed_9-1080x720.jpg)

By Sophia Savva

Published: 1:48 am, 1 May 2017

under News
Tags: Jordan Peterson

STEVEN LEE/THE VARSITY
Jordan Peterson’s federal funding denied, Rebel Media picks up the tab
http://var.st/2cq (http://var.st/2cq)

An Indiegogo campaign started by The Rebel Media, a conservative news and opinion website, has raised over $170,000 in support of U of T psychology professor Jordan Peterson after his funding proposal was denied for the first time in his career.

The decision was made by a currently-anonymous review committee from the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council (SSHRC), the postsecondary-based federal research funding agency. The names of this year’s committee members will be released on the SSHRC’s website once the review process is complete.

On Twitter, Peterson said his previous proposal to the same agency “received more funding than any other in the history of the U Toronto Psych Dept.”

This time, however, Peterson said his proposal received “an exceedingly low rating.”

According to an article in the National Post, Peterson is certain the recent controversy surrounding him is tied to the rejection of his proposal. Last fall, Peterson criticized Bill C-16, which adds “gender identity and gender expression to the list of prohibited grounds of discrimination,” and voiced his concerns about non-binary pronouns and political correctness. He received a mixture of local and international support and criticism, including three rallies on campus and two warning letters from the university.

“Committees assess only the information contained in the application,” said Julia Gualtieri, Media Relations Adviser of SSHRC. “Dr. Peterson’s research proposal was reviewed by a committee of discipline-based, academic peers through an independent review process designed to ensure the highest standards of excellence and impartiality.”

SSHRC committee members are selected based on their “academic knowledge and standing in the discipline.” They further consider “gender, language, region and university size to ensure the committee is broadly reflective of Canadian academia.”

“In this particular case, the adjudication committee was comprised of Canadian academics in the relevant discipline,” Gualtieri said, referring to Peterson’s application. “SSHRC staff are responsible for facilitating the review process only and do not participate in the decision making.”

Peterson requested a total of $399,625 from SSHRC for five years of research. In a Rebel Media video, Peterson states that most of the research money was allotted to the “salary and tuition” of Peterson’s student researchers, with the rest going to research subjects, travel expenses for conferences, and computer equipment.

In the same video, Peterson explains he requested funding to continue researching how to improve the measurement and prediction of personality. Peterson’s team also plans on “assessing the relationship between personality and political belief: liberal, conservative, and now, politically correct,” noting that “it’s the first time the latter has been investigated scientifically.” The team also wants to improve “online interventions” like the Self Authoring Suite, which has “helped thousands of students get better grades and stay in school.”

Ezra Levant, founder and self-described “Rebel Commander” of The Rebel Media, spearheaded an Indiegogo campaign to raise the first year’s worth of funding, $73,325, for Peterson’s research team within a 30-day period. The Indiegogo project reached its goal in one day. The next goal was to raise an additional $82,325 to support the second year of research, which the campaign has also reached.

“That’s a very strong message in support of Prof. Peterson — and frankly, a rebuke of the government bureaucrats who denied him his grant,” Levant told The Varsity.

“The government’s reasons for rejecting Prof. Peterson’s grant request are secret,” Levant said. “But it is suspicions [sic] that the first time in his career his grant application has been rejected happens to coincide with his battle against political correctness.”

In the Rebel Media video, Peterson said he was contacted by other researchers whose works were “curtailed for what appear to be political reasons.”

Gualtieri said all committee members “must sign the Conflict of Interest and Confidentiality Agreement and must declare any conflicts of interests.” Members with a conflict of interest must leave the meeting room when discussing the applications in question and cannot make decisions about those applications.

“As part of the process, the competition for funding in question designated a committee of three independent observers who ensured that the merit review process was followed,” said Gualtieri. “All these stringent measures were employed for the most recent adjudication process, as with all SSHRC’s adjudication processes.”

Peterson declined to comment to The Varsity.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on November 01, 2018, 04:21:38 AM



Jordan Peterson’s federal funding denied, Rebel Media picks up the tab


Also a Lie

The headline is wrong...a deliberate fake news lie.

Somebody you don't like started a crowdfunding effort to replace money that is being taken away from JP because of efforts in academia to silence him because of what he says. Period. End of story.

Fake news is all about fake headlines, because that's all  morons read. RE, you know better.

Theres a reason I didn't take AG's post down. Then I would have been accused of censorship. I'd prefer to call him out in the broad daylight and expose his slanderous post for what it is......made up bullshit designed to tarnish the reputation of somebody he doesn't like.
Title: Re: Who is Jordan Peterson? HINT: The Koch 🦕 Brothers fund him
Post by: Ashvin on November 01, 2018, 04:25:11 AM
I agree with you, RE, someone calling me a fascist is a not a personal insult. However calling me a "serial liar" is no different than me calling you 'stupid' (I didn't even use that word). FWIW, I don't think either should be censored, but I also don't like out and out hypocrisy.

I'm glad you are willing to admit you are a Communist and therefore an Ideologue, much more than Surly and AG are willing to admit.

Similarly, Watson's belief system has much in common with Fascism.  For one thing, he believes in Capitalism which is just Fascism with Window Dressing.  "Fascist Lite" so to speak.

This absurdity speaks for itself.

Quote
For another, he's a Trumpovetsky supporter, which automatically makes him Fascistic.

This is a falsity - the closest I come to "supporting" Trump is criticizing radical liberals who happen to be critics of Trump (I don't criticize them for criticizing Trump).

Quote
  Third, he is a Fundy Christian, which also is Fascist.  I am not insulting Watson if I call him a Fundy, it is what he is.  He believes the Bible is the literal Word of God, Jesus Christ was the Flesh & Blood Son of God, Noah saved all the animals in the world from a literal Flood, all of humanity descended from Adam & Eve, and the ONLY way to Eternal Salvation is through buying Jesus as the Son of God.  That is Fundy Christianity in a nutshell.

Your ignorance of Christianity and theology in general shines through here as usual.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on November 01, 2018, 04:29:33 AM



Jordan Peterson’s federal funding denied, Rebel Media picks up the tab


Also a Lie

The headline is wrong...a deliberate fake news lie.

Somebody you don't like started a crowdfunding effort to replace money that is being taken away from JP because of efforts in academia to silence him because of what he says. Period. End of story.

Fake news is all about fake headlines, because that's all  morons read. RE, you know better.

Theres a reason I didn't take AG's post down. Then I would have been accused of censorship. I'd prefer to call him out in the broad daylight and expose his slanderous post for what it is......made up bullshit designed to tarnish the reputation of somebody he doesn't like.

I find it absolutely astonishing that RE posted this as a critique of Peterson (correct me if I'm wrong), when it actually serves as concrete evidence of everything we have been saying about the radical left and their ideologically-motivated, power-hungry schemes to silence or otherwise marginalize academics who criticize them.
Title: Re: Who is Jordan Peterson? HINT: The Koch 🦕 Brothers fund him
Post by: RE on November 01, 2018, 04:36:27 AM

I'm glad you are willing to admit you are a Communist and therefore an Ideologue, much more than Surly and AG are willing to admit.

I didn't say I was a Communist.  I said I am not now, nor have I ever been a member of the Communist Party, and that some of my beliefs are congruent with Communism.

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on November 01, 2018, 04:39:02 AM



Jordan Peterson’s federal funding denied, Rebel Media picks up the tab


Also a Lie

The headline is wrong...a deliberate fake news lie.

Somebody you don't like started a crowdfunding effort to replace money that is being taken away from JP because of efforts in academia to silence him because of what he says. Period. End of story.

Fake news is all about fake headlines, because that's all  morons read. RE, you know better.

Theres a reason I didn't take AG's post down. Then I would have been accused of censorship. I'd prefer to call him out in the broad daylight and expose his slanderous post for what it is......made up bullshit designed to tarnish the reputation of somebody he doesn't like.

Where's the lie?  JPs federal funding was denied, and Rebel Media did start a crowdfunding effort to replace the money.  That was reported from several sources.

RE
Title: Re: Who is Jordan Peterson? HINT: The Koch 🦕 Brothers fund him
Post by: Ashvin on November 01, 2018, 05:05:25 AM

I'm glad you are willing to admit you are a Communist and therefore an Ideologue, much more than Surly and AG are willing to admit.

I didn't say I was a Communist.  I said I am not now, nor have I ever been a member of the Communist Party, and that some of my beliefs are congruent with Communism.

RE

You are correct - that's my fault for misreading.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: AJ on November 01, 2018, 05:32:48 AM
I'm debating whether I want to waste my time here anymore.

My writing doesn't seem to really help anybody.
Eddie,
Don't leave, I like your writing (don't see how you have the time) and somewhat identify with where you are. I am slightly older than you (65), a retired attorney who with my wife (another dam retired attorney) put our 4 kids through UCLA. We once owned a rental property in Austin (so I identify with your local) and I lived briefly in Houston (to flat and humid). You're a little more conservative than me, but Surly is a little more socialist; to each his own. It makes for interesting reading. I don't have nearly the time to read and respond as I'm running as fast as I can to my "farm" as self sufficient as possible. I like most of the commentary here. David has provided some very interesting articles (if ONLY I had the compliant spouse  :evil4:). Ashvin I think is a little crazy - but crazy is both interesting and informative. I figure the insults are just something everyone on the web does.
So don't leave, I for one think you write both interesting and informative pieces.
Thanks,
AJ
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on November 01, 2018, 06:09:57 AM



Jordan Peterson’s federal funding denied, Rebel Media picks up the tab


Also a Lie

The headline is wrong...a deliberate fake news lie.

Somebody you don't like started a crowdfunding effort to replace money that is being taken away from JP because of efforts in academia to silence him because of what he says. Period. End of story.

Fake news is all about fake headlines, because that's all  morons read. RE, you know better.

Theres a reason I didn't take AG's post down. Then I would have been accused of censorship. I'd prefer to call him out in the broad daylight and expose his slanderous post for what it is......made up bullshit designed to tarnish the reputation of somebody he doesn't like.

Where's the lie?  JPs federal funding was denied, and Rebel Media did start a crowdfunding effort to replace the money.  That was reported from several sources.

RE

Oh, please. Don't you know how this shit works by now.

The lie is, and I quote :Rebel Media picks up the tab

So...whoever Rebel Media is, some right wing asshole presumably, they started a Crowdfunding Campaign.

Anybody can do this, and anybody who wants to can contribute, that's what crowdfunding is. So it's completely misleading to say that Rebel Media is paying JP.

Let me sort this out for you. Its very easy to understand.

A whole lot of people, the ones JP criticizes, are in fairly powerful positions in academia these days. So  they got his funding cut. 'And now they are making up lies to try to smear his character.

This is a pathetic last resort because his critics have completely failed to refute anything he says. It boils down to this. You can't win an argument with someone who is in possession of real facts that show that your argument is fallacious, and who is your intellectual equal or superior. Every time someone in the neo-Marixist identity politics crowd takes him on in public, they get crushed. Watch the videos.

So now they are trying (and they might tbe successful) to smear his reputation by slandering and libeling him. Trying to paint him as "alt-right" by association.

There is a saying, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". The critics are trying to say JP is a Rightie because righties love him. Let me explain why that doesn't matter.

What is going on, is that there is an INTERSECTION between JP's calm, reasoned, intellectually well-armed take-down of the Marxist academics, and the belief system of the extreme right wing.

Not hard to grok, when you realize that the VERY EXISTENCE of these hate groups has to do with a REACTION against the false narrative of the liberal parties in the US and Canada and elsewhere.

They weren't in ascendency a decade ago. They haven't just sprung up from spores like mushrooms after a big rain.

I keep trying to explain this...it's important.

The assholes are assholes, but they have some legitimate beefs. The left leaning academic commies ABANDONED The white working people in their rush to capture the votes of the ethnic minorities and "special people". They have created a culture that basically says if you were born brown, or you're gay, or you're a woman, that the rest of of us OWE you special consideration because of unfair discrimination against your special group.

So now, EVERYONE wants to be special. Why do you think Elizabeth Warren wanted to claim to be part Native American? Why do you think white people fake being black and join organizations that promote black causes?

I got real mad two days ago when Surly started to legitimize this smear campaign. Because that's exactly what it is, a smear campaign.

I love honest debate.

I have NO INTEREST in my name being associated with a site that perpetuates lies and character assassination.

Is that real clear?


Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on November 01, 2018, 06:31:05 AM
Thanks AJ and David, for making me feel like my writing is worth something. I do try to write things that help people.

I'm not even a conservative, really. These days anybody who criticizes the false narrative of the liberals is instantly labeled.

Conservative is the nicer label. Just as common is to be called a racist, a sexist, or a bigot.

I just voted a straight Democrat ticket. I favor universal healthcare, free university education, and dismantling the 1.2 million man US military.

Exactly how conservative does that make me?

I believe people have to do what they can with what they have, where they are. I know money greases the wheels in this world. I believe in saving money and making investments. It beats the shit out of starving in your old age. If that makes me conservative, well then, I'll own it.

I literally hate the Rush Limbaughs and Glenn Becks of the world. I hate the Trumps and the Paul Ryans and the Greg Abbotts.

So it sort of chaps my buns to be called conservative, frankly.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on November 01, 2018, 07:56:22 AM
I have NO INTEREST in my name being associated with a site that perpetuates lies and character assassination.

Is that real clear?

In that case, feel free to delete any post you think is a lie.  Is that real clear?

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on November 01, 2018, 08:59:12 AM
I'm debating whether I want to waste my time here anymore.

My writing doesn't seem to really help anybody.
Eddie,
Don't leave, I like your writing (don't see how you have the time) and somewhat identify with where you are. I am slightly older than you (65), a retired attorney who with my wife (another dam retired attorney) put our 4 kids through UCLA. We once owned a rental property in Austin (so I identify with your local) and I lived briefly in Houston (to flat and humid). You're a little more conservative than me, but Surly is a little more socialist; to each his own. It makes for interesting reading. I don't have nearly the time to read and respond as I'm running as fast as I can to my "farm" as self sufficient as possible. I like most of the commentary here. David has provided some very interesting articles (if ONLY I had the compliant spouse  :evil4:). Ashvin I think is a little crazy - but crazy is both interesting and informative. I figure the insults are just something everyone on the web does.
So don't leave, I for one think you write both interesting and informative pieces.
Thanks,
AJ

I hate to break this to you AJ, but around these parts, (i.e. according to RE, Surly and AG), you are nothing but an uber-conservative, Trump-supporting, money-grubbing Capitalist/Fascist. You check a bunch of the boxes - you practiced law in the "FSOA", you owned property which you used to supplement your income, and you used all of those exploits to send 4 kids to a prestigious and expensive University. Being married to another one makes it that much worse  :P
Title: Re: Who is Jordan Peterson? HINT: The Koch 🦕 Brothers fund him
Post by: K-Dog on November 01, 2018, 09:01:05 AM
Ashvin is a member of this forum.  It is a violation of our code of conduct to insult another member like this.

Where's the insult?  Fascist is just a label for a political belief system, like Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Socialist or Communist.  You can call me a Communist even though I am not now, nor have I ever been a member of the Communist Party.  However, it's true that some aspects of my belief system are congruent with Communism.  Similarly, Watson's belief system has much in common with Fascism.  For one thing, he believes in Capitalism which is just Fascism with Window Dressing.  "Fascist Lite" so to speak.  For another, he's a Trumpovetsky supporter, which automatically makes him Fascistic.  Third, he is a Fundy Christian, which also is Fascist.  I am not insulting Watson if I call him a Fundy, it is what he is.  He believes the Bible is the literal Word of God, Jesus Christ was the Flesh & Blood Son of God, Noah saved all the animals in the world from a literal Flood, all of humanity descended from Adam & Eve, and the ONLY way to Eternal Salvation is through buying Jesus as the Son of God.  That is Fundy Christianity in a nutshell.

AG didn't even call Watson a Fascist though, just a Fascist Enabler.  Which given the positions he takes in his posting, he is.  Not a very effective enabler since he is such a failure as a blogger, but an enabler nonetheless.

The Diner has a full spectrum of political belief systems represented, there are Libertarians, Socialists, Fascists and Communists here to one extent or the other.  If you perceive a Diner to fit one of these categories, it's not an insult to label them as such.  It's just what you perceive as their political beliefs represented in their posting.

RE

Ashvin, like Jordan Peterson, is also a Fascist Enabler, as well as a serial liar

If you and I called each other a serial liar I'm sure we could both handle it but we are talking Agelbert here.  Agelbert who has been warned repeatedly not to insult other Diners and who continues to flaunt rules.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Surly1 on November 01, 2018, 09:08:40 AM



Jordan Peterson’s federal funding denied, Rebel Media picks up the tab


Also a Lie

The headline is wrong...a deliberate fake news lie.

Somebody you don't like started a crowdfunding effort to replace money that is being taken away from JP because of efforts in academia to silence him because of what he says. Period. End of story.

Fake news is all about fake headlines, because that's all  morons read. RE, you know better.

Theres a reason I didn't take AG's post down. Then I would have been accused of censorship. I'd prefer to call him out in the broad daylight and expose his slanderous post for what it is......made up bullshit designed to tarnish the reputation of somebody he doesn't like.

I find it absolutely astonishing that RE posted this as a critique of Peterson (correct me if I'm wrong), when it actually serves as concrete evidence of everything we have been saying about the radical left and their ideologically-motivated, power-hungry schemes to silence or otherwise marginalize academics who criticize them.

It does absolutely nothing of the sort.

You are ever so eager to engage in slash-and-burn rhetoric about the left, but are unable to remove the plank in your eye about the right.

Peterson's grant wasn't denied because of political reasons; Peterson SAYS it was denied because of political reasons. I guess if the nugget falls from his colon, you're eager to nibble. Yum! Chewy far-right goodness!

I am really busy right ow and don't have the time to administer the online thrashing you richly deserve.. but that will just give you and your little dog Toto something to look forward to.

But one last thing... about "Rebel Media."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rebel_Media

Quote
The Rebel Media (officially The Rebel News Network Ltd.,[1] stylized as THEREBEL.media, and shortened to The Rebel) is a Canadian far-right[2][3][4][5][6] online political and social commentary media website. It was founded in February 2015 by former Sun News Network personalities Ezra Levant and Brian Lilley. It has been described as a "global platform" for the anti-Muslim ideology, also known as counter-jihad.[7][8][9]

Former Sun News reporter Faith Goldy later joined the outlet.[10] Gavin McInnes, founder of the far-right men's organization Proud Boys, was also a contributor. Lilley, Goldy, and McInnes have all since left the project.[11]

Many of The Rebel's contributors announced their departure – or were fired – in the second half of August 2017, following Goldy's prominent coverage of the 2017 Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, and her interview with The Daily Stormer.

Quite a bunch of luminaries you've gathered up as running buddies.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on November 01, 2018, 09:29:11 AM
Peterson's grant wasn't denied because of political reasons;

Sorry, but I don't see any evidence that this is true. You don't even know the identities of the people who made the decision, unless you know them personally. It isn't public knowledge, to the best of my ability to investigate.

To assume that it  isn't political, just because "Julia Gualtieri — a spokesman for the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada "  said so, is extremely naive and makes me think you don't know too much about academic bureaucracies. I'd like to see your proof. I know you're busy right now.

You might notice, I'm just demanding proof. I think you're wrong, but I'm prepared to eat some crow if you're right. Let's get to the truth.

I think the burden is on you and AG anybody else who wants to make this case on Peterson.  You are making claims that I think are misplaced. I want some evidence. Good evidence. So far that is not forthcoming from either of you.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on November 01, 2018, 10:36:45 AM
You are ever so eager to engage in slash-and-burn rhetoric about the left, but are unable to remove the plank in your eye about the right.

I don't want to eliminate the left as you imply, in fact I believe the left is absolutely necessary in Western politics and culture. But since that doesn't compute with your view of me or Peterson or anyone else who dares to criticize the extreme and abrasive left, you will just ignore it and keep labeling me a supporter of the radical right. Makes it much easier for you to maintain your ideologically-framed view of the world.


Quote
Peterson's grant wasn't denied because of political reasons

So why was it denied, Surly? Why did they go from throwing money at him for the same exact project a few years ago to denying the funding? Did his vociferous and virally popular criticism of the social sciences and humanities departments during that intervening period have any effect?

The only reason for you to feign extreme naivete here is, again, for purely ideological reasons. You don't like Peterson or anything he stands for (worse, what you incorrectly believe he stands for, since you haven't even listened to him), so you automatically defend his censors.

Quote
But one last thing... about "Rebel Media."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rebel_Media

Eddie already put this nonsense to rest. Peterson didn't ask Rebel Media to raise the money and, IN FACT, Rebel Media did not contribute any money, just managed a crowdfunding campaign.

Even if Rebel Media decided to directly fund Peterson's work, who cares? Id rather have conservative groups give their money to valid and important scientific research projects than reactionary political campaigns to "defeat" the radical left who are doing the same damn thing.

But I guess you have given up on incremental scientific progress at this point, or any progress in general - only bloody revolution will suffice.
Title: To Right Wing Fascist Enablers for Jordan Peterson Koch Brothers TOOL
Post by: agelbert on November 01, 2018, 10:38:09 AM
(http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-120818185039-16521065.gif)

Nothin' like a little truth to get all the Fascist FUCKS/BOLD FACED LIARS/TRUMP APOLOGISTS that curse this forum to come charging out to kill the "off the deep end Agelbert" messenger. (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-120818180835-1626482.gif)(http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-111018132421-16911675.gif)

(http://pm1.narvii.com/5869/6a64193d6770c3afd17406c78686c0eda32ded1c_hq.jpg)

I'll make the same offer to you LIARS and Trump loving FASCIST ENABLERS that RE made. YOU remove all the FASCIST ENABLER Jordan Peterson ASS KISSING POSTS from this forum and I will delete ALL POSTS that reference that BOUGHT AND PAID FOR KOCH BROTHERS + (fascist) Heritage Foundation TOOL.

For those who do not GET what Jordan Peterson in general, AND THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION IN PARTICULAR, ARE ALL ABOUT, see the graphics below.

JORDAN PETERSON 😈 IS suppored by this FASCIST 👹 Koch Brothers 🦕🦖 FRONT GROUP. Birds of a FEATHER, FLOCK 😈 👹 TOGETHER.

(http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-210117202856.png)

Heritage Foundation budget  cut percentages
[/size][/color]
(http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-210117203328.png)

Peterson SUPPORTS the elimination of social Security and Medicare. Anyone claiming otherwise (e.g. Ashvin, Eddie and K-Dog) is, in addition to being FASCIST ENABLERS, also engaging in defamation of character by calling me a liar. NONE of you fine upstanding fascist enablers have the courage to admit you are just covering your Trump loving ASS.

Yeah, I'll take this post down too when you tke all the Jordan Peterson posts down too.  :icon_sunny:

Have a nice day. 
Title: Re: To Right Wing Fascist Enablers for Jordan Peterson Koch Brothers TOOL
Post by: Ashvin on November 01, 2018, 10:52:16 AM
JORDAN PETERSON 😈 IS suppored by this FASCIST 👹 Koch Brothers 🦕🦖 FRONT GROUP. Birds of a FEATHER, FLOCK 😈 👹 TOGETHER.

...

Peterson SUPPORTS the elimination of social Security and Medicare. Anyone claiming otherwise (e.g. Ashvin, Eddie and K-Dog) is, in addition to being FASCIST ENABLERS, also engaging in defamation of character by calling me a liar. NONE of you fine upstanding fascist enablers have the courage to admit you are just covering your Trump loving ASS.

Yeah, I'll take this post down too when you tke all the Jordan Peterson posts down too.  :icon_sunny:

Have a nice day.

I'm not sure if you are a liar - you may actually believe that making reckless allegations and putting devil icons in front of them counts as some kind of indisputable evidence. I just pray that you don't sit on a jury for some unlucky bastard in a criminal trial.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on November 01, 2018, 10:52:54 AM
Peterson lives in Canada. Relax, he can't take away your Social Security and Medicare.

So far you anti-Peterson folks are coming up real short on offering any real evidence for your accusations, which are way over the top. Libelous, actually.

When you lie about non-politicians in public and people know who you are, you might get sued. Jordan has sued several people already, and he will probably win.

This reply to my challenge is more or less what I expected. I am quite sure you've been scouring the internet for evidence to prove me wrong, because I know how compulsive you are. It isn't there.

So fuck off.
Title: Surly is right. Ashvin is wrong.
Post by: agelbert on November 01, 2018, 11:06:45 AM
You are ever so eager to engage in slash-and-burn rhetoric about the left, but are unable to remove the plank in your eye about the right.

I don't want to eliminate the left as you imply, in fact I believe the left is absolutely necessary in Western politics and culture. But since that doesn't compute with your view of me or Peterson or anyone else who dares to criticize the extreme and abrasive left, you will just ignore it and keep labeling me a supporter of the radical right. Makes it much easier for you to maintain your ideologically-framed view of the world.

Quote
Peterson's grant wasn't denied because of political reasons

So why was it denied, Surly? Why did they go from throwing money at him for the same exact project a few years ago to denying the funding? Did his vociferous and virally popular criticism of the social sciences and humanities departments during that intervening period have any effect?

The only reason for you to feign extreme naivete here is, again, for purely ideological reasons. You don't like Peterson or anything he stands for (worse, what you incorrectly believe he stands for, since you haven't even listened to him), so you automatically defend his censors.

Quote
But one last thing... about "Rebel Media."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rebel_Media (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rebel_Media)

Eddie already put this nonsense to rest. Peterson didn't ask Rebel Media to raise the money and, IN FACT, Rebel Media did not contribute any money, just managed a crowdfunding campaign.

Even if Rebel Media decided to directly fund Peterson's work, who cares? Id rather have conservative groups give their money to valid and important scientific research projects than reactionary political campaigns to "defeat" the radical left who are doing the same damn thing.

But I guess you have given up on incremental scientific progress at this point, or any progress in general - only bloody revolution will suffice.
(http://desertpeace.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/grasping-at-straws1.jpg)

Ashvin, your amazing ability to grasp and hold for dear debating life the most threadbare of straws is worthy of praise among the greatest Sophists around. Your skill in sophistry is quite impressive. Your sentence parsing technique is useful in isolating sentences and phrases for the express sophistic purpose of deliberately debating them out of context in order to "win" the debate. It's disingenuous to the extreme, but taking subjects out of context is part of your clever, morallity challenged, "skillset".

Despite your admitted mastery of sophistry, that don't work on learned indivduals like Surly (or me 😀). Surly and I do not always get along. However, Surly is, unlike you, a consistently straight shooter. He sees the big picture that you consistently attempt to dance around with your sentence isolating technique.

Surly is right on all counts. You are grasping at straws and engaging in fallacious debating techniques. Shame on you.

Quote
Proverbs 12 King James Version (KJV)

17 He that speaketh truth sheweth forth righteousness: but a false witness deceit.

18 There is that speaketh like the piercings of a sword: but the tongue of the wise is health.

19 The lip of truth shall be established for ever: but a lying tongue is but for a moment.

20 Deceit is in the heart of them that imagine evil: but to the counsellors of peace is joy.

Repent, Antinomian. :icon_sunny:

 

Title: Re: Surly is right. Ashvin is wrong.
Post by: Ashvin on November 01, 2018, 11:25:48 AM
Ashvin, your amazing ability to grasp and hold for dear debating life the most threadbare of straws is worthy of praise among the greatest Sophists around. Your skill in sophistry is quite impressive. Your sentence parsing technique is useful in isolating sentences and phrases for the express sophistic purpose of deliberately debating them out of context in order to "win" the debate. It's disingenuous to the extreme, but taking subjects out of context is part of your clever, morallity challenged, "skillset".

Despite your admitted mastery of sophistry, that don't work on learned indivduals like Surly (or me 😀). Surly and I do not always get along. However, Surly is, unlike you, a consistently straight shooter. He sees the big picture that you consistently attempt to dance around with your sentence isolating technique.

Let's think about this carefully and logically - communicating complex ideas is extremely difficult to begin with (for us non-ideologues), and communicating them over the internet only adds to the complexity because we have no ability to do what humans have evolved to do over hundreds of thousands of years - examine body language and facial expressions. This whole internet thing is VERY NEW and we definitely don't know how to use it well for communication.

There is no way I am going to try and communicate here by attempting to memorize what people said in their comments and then writing a HUGE post in which I respond to what I imagine they said and throw in a bunch of icons, graphics and different fonts and colors for good measure. Then I would end up with posts which are just as full of long-winded arrogance and puffery, and as devoid of meaning, as yours.

My approach is more pragmatic - select the portions of a post that are relevant, quote what people actually wrote and respond accordingly. It's not perfect, but so far I don't see a more useful approach.
Title: Republicans want to ELIMINATE Social Security AND Medicare
Post by: agelbert on November 01, 2018, 11:42:33 AM
Peterson lives in Canada. Relax, he can't take away your Social Security and Medicare.

So far you anti-Peterson folks are coming up real short on offering any real evidence for your accusations, which are way over the top. Libelous, actually.

When you lie about non-politicians in public and people know who you are, you might get sued. Jordan has sued several people already, and he will probably win.

This reply to my challenge is more or less what I expected. I am quite sure you've been scouring the internet for evidence to prove me wrong, because I know how compulsive you are. It isn't there.

So fuck off.

Oh, really? Peterson lives in Canada. Gee, if you hadn't told me that, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS IN AN EARLIER POST I MADE, I wouldn't have knowm. Thanks for the heads up.Texas Republican fan of Jordan Peterson.

Sure, I've done a bit of research on you Fascist Hero Peterson, but mostly I have been checking out the REPUBLICAN PLANS to eliminate social Security and Medicare. And YEAH, Peterson is just one small bought and paid for cog in the REPUBLICAN PLAN to trash Medicare and Social Security. BUT, he is NOT the main force. He is just a distraction to woo those Big IQ folks who love money and could give a SHIT about social programs that help the poor and downtrodden victims of Capitalist Cruelty in the USA (and Canada too, by the way). Peterson is a Koch Brothers SUCKER PLAY. It's not my fault you and Ashvin fell for it.

Are ya gonna take down all the Jordan Peterson hero worship, or not? If ya don't, that's okay. You are an Admin an can squash me like a bug that never was if you so desire. Go ahead, if that makes you feel better. But mind you, bro, all this mud thowing (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-250718204530.gif)(http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-120818185039-165118.gif)  (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-130418202144.gif) and flame warring has just attracted more beady bubble to this forum. Well I'll be a blue nosed gopher! Agelbert is a lightning rod for Doomster VIEWS!  ;) ;D

Where were we? Oh yeah, I'm a horrendous, heinous cowerdly, off the deep end liar who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the groud. Oh, and fuck me too. (https://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/furious.gif)

It's possible, BUT....

 
(http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-040817140651.png)

Eddie, my boy, it does not MATTER WHAT AGELBERT IS OR IS NOT, in regard to Social Security AND Medicare. Hell, I don't even need Social Security! I get a tiny check each month that covers my Medicare Part B plus $52, PERIOD. I'm defending these programs mainly on principle. Yeah my BCBS Federal Retiree plan was forced to refund me $600 from the SEVERAL THOUSAND I paid in 2017, thanks to Medicare being the primary health care. So yeah, I do NOT want Medicare to go away. BUT, unlike the majority of Medicare and Social Security recipients, I DO NOT NEED THEM!

I DEFEND THESE PROGRAMS BECAUSE IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO!

HERE is what REPUBLICANS, including the Libertarian ASSHOLE Profit over People and Planet Koch Brothers AND the (FASCIST) Heritage Foundation PLAN. WHY DO YOU, EDDIE, ASHVIN AND K-DOG, SUPPORT THAT PLAN BY VOTING REPUBLICAN?


(https://image.cagle.com/204492/1155/204492.png)

October 31, 2018

The GOP Dessert scheduled for AFTER the elections next week

(https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/madison.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/7/86/78644a27-ef89-5a89-b504-8d911902b10b/5abe63f1f2f4b.image.jpg?crop=677%2C381%2C0%2C55&resize=677%2C381&order=crop%2Cresize)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmapzV6WwAANdVH.jpg)


(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-yXobwb8yPZo/WEr9LjPLibI/AAAAAAAAmgg/lyA6Ssavwq0htX_sTRr9Ob79y_gSXvy_QCLcB/s1600/Paul%2BRyan%2Band%2BMedicare.jpg)


(http://act.txdemocrats.org/page/-/TXdem-TrumpMedicareSS-LP-v2%20%281%29.png)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmYYzWbWsAAJScg.jpg)

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQI9dD_PsEhgZP9dCvfd86Z7zgzq7TExfTRbMInikQZDcFb-s3qHw)

Title: Re: The Orwellian Intellectual Darkness
Post by: agelbert on November 01, 2018, 11:58:44 AM
Now Ashvin "isn''t sure I am a liar". That is carefully placed right before the claim that I am simply a deluded half-wit o would vote to kill innocent people if I happen to be a part of Jury in a Criminal Trial.

(http://memecrunch.com/meme/5L3XX/spiderman-bullshit-detector/image.jpg?w=544&c=1)

And ASHVIN, the mens rea modus operandi SOPHIST, wants ME to ""think carefully" about proper methods of communication!
(http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-250817121829.png)


You just cannot make this stuff up.

Ashvin, your Orwellian discourse is extremely creative, if nothing else. Thanks for the, uh, "prayers".  (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-111018132401-16872027.gif) 
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Surly1 on November 01, 2018, 12:49:09 PM
Peterson's grant wasn't denied because of political reasons;

Sorry, but I don't see any evidence that this is true. You don't even know the identities of the people who made the decision, unless you know them personally. It isn't public knowledge, to the best of my ability to investigate.

To assume that it  isn't political, just because "Julia Gualtieri — a spokesman for the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada "  said so, is extremely naive and makes me think you don't know too much about academic bureaucracies. I'd like to see your proof. I know you're busy right now.

You might notice, I'm just demanding proof. I think you're wrong, but I'm prepared to eat some crow if you're right. Let's get to the truth.

I think the burden is on you and AG anybody else who wants to make this case on Peterson.  You are making claims that I think are misplaced. I want some evidence. Good evidence. So far that is not forthcoming from either of you.

I don't know any of the involved personally.  These grants are generally paneled. The panelists rated them poorly.
Peterson, with an axe to grind, says it was "political." Of course he did.
And the great swarm of Peterson fanbois rush in to nod furiously in bobbleheaded enthusiasm. Bottom line: the U said it wasn't political, Peterson says it was. And then the nazis held a bake sale to fund him.
Another case of "he said, she said." As I recall last time we had one of these you came down hard for the accused.

I was hoping not to get sucked into this Peterson bullshit, and to have to do a careful vivisection of his body of work, because frankly, I have a life. And I prefer to not drink from sewers. But for some reason I ascribe to weakness, RE has given Ashvin the run of the place to add nothing, contribute nothing but to make a case for his new Messiah. I'll take that shit up with RE when he's up to it, and I'll deal with Peterson's oeuvre when I have more time. Which i don't now.

Peterson is a Youtube star with a distinct following amount the angy, young, white, and otherwise without agency crowd. Very big with the incels, so they tell me.

Whenever someone's critique starts with, "radical left," that is a tell and they have given the game away. There is no radical left in this country except from the viewpoiint of the far edge of the reactionary right. Thus does a vile insect like Ashvin class anyone as "ideologue" anyone who does not sup uncritically at the table of Petersonism.

Peterson asserts that postmodern philosophers and sociologists since the 1960s[ have insinuated core tenets of Marxism and communism into academe. which is what you say when things aren't going your way and you can't get what you want.He echoes Kunstler's bleats of "cultural Maoists," which so thrill the Ayn Rand company sucks still hiding in the corners around here, but which offend people able to observe the world as it is and think. He says academe was infected with an influence of postmodernism thought that migrated from France to the US via Jacques Derrida and others. We also know how the French fuck up everything. Order up some freedom fries with your pitcher of Blue Ribbon.

As a YouTube star, he offers up plenty for his fanbois to chew on. Conservative views on religion, trans issues, and on feminism. From what I have seen, much of what he says is incoherent and ambiguous. So his acolytes dismiss any criticism as mere misrepresentations of his views. See, if you don't agree, then clearly you don't understand. Or are an unmitigated ideologue.

The same fucking technique of manipulation we've seen in evidence here. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on November 01, 2018, 01:12:52 PM
Well, I happen to have listened to maybe 20 or more  hours of his interviews with some pretty good people, like Joe Rogan.

It all sounded completely coherent to me, and his points are invariably made with footnotes to real science. He has offered to debate with anybody anywhere any time. Ideas against ideas. Not accusations and innuendos.

When you have someone who is more than willing to engage in dialog with people with other differing points of view, and try to talk rationally and sensibly instead of name calling, that means something. He is not a bullshitter, Far from it.

He can be wrong. I don't think he's a God. But he's a smart man, he has good ideas and he's right about a lot things. You don't win my trust with crappy arguments. I'm a skeptic.

I'm not trying to drag you into anything. You appeared to me to be talking out your ass, and I want you to back it up or back off.  I think that's a reasonable request.

That some asshole started a crowdfunding effort in his name? How does that impugn his integrity?  It doesn't. It's  irrelevant.
Title: Re: Republicans want to ELIMINATE Social Security AND Medicare
Post by: Eddie on November 01, 2018, 01:39:41 PM
Peterson lives in Canada. Relax, he can't take away your Social Security and Medicare.

So far you anti-Peterson folks are coming up real short on offering any real evidence for your accusations, which are way over the top. Libelous, actually.

When you lie about non-politicians in public and people know who you are, you might get sued. Jordan has sued several people already, and he will probably win.

This reply to my challenge is more or less what I expected. I am quite sure you've been scouring the internet for evidence to prove me wrong, because I know how compulsive you are. It isn't there.

So fuck off.

Oh, really? Peterson lives in Canada. Gee, if you hadn't told me that, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS IN AN EARLIER POST I MADE, I wouldn't have knowm. Thanks for the heads up.Texas Republican fan of Jordan Peterson.

Sure, I've done a bit of research on you Fascist Hero Peterson, but mostly I have been checking out the REPUBLICAN PLANS to eliminate social Security and Medicare. And YEAH, Peterson is just one small bought and paid for cog in the REPUBLICAN PLAN to trash Medicare and Social Security. BUT, he is NOT the main force. He is just a distraction to woo those Big IQ folks who love money and could give a SHIT about social programs that help the poor and downtrodden victims of Capitalist Cruelty in the USA (and Canada too, by the way). Peterson is a Koch Brothers SUCKER PLAY. It's not my fault you and Ashvin fell for it.

Are ya gonna take down all the Jordan Peterson hero worship, or not? If ya don't, that's okay. You are an Admin an can squash me like a bug that never was if you so desire. Go ahead, if that makes you feel better. But mind you, bro, all this mud thowing (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-250718204530.gif)(http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-120818185039-165118.gif)  (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-130418202144.gif) and flame warring has just attracted more beady bubble to this forum. Well I'll be a blue nosed gopher! Agelbert is a lightning rod for Doomster VIEWS!  ;) ;D

Where were we? Oh yeah, I'm a horrendous, heinous cowerdly, off the deep end liar who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the groud. Oh, and fuck me too. (https://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/furious.gif)

It's possible, BUT....

 
(http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-040817140651.png)

Eddie, my boy, it does not MATTER WHAT AGELBERT IS OR IS NOT, in regard to Social Security AND Medicare. Hell, I don't even need Social Security! I get a tiny check each month that covers my Medicare Part B plus $52, PERIOD. I'm defending these programs mainly on principle. Yeah my BCBS Federal Retiree plan was forced to refund me $600 from the SEVERAL THOUSAND I paid in 2017, thanks to Medicare being the primary health care. So yeah, I do NOT want Medicare to go away. BUT, unlike the majority of Medicare and Social Security recipients, I DO NOT NEED THEM!

I DEFEND THESE PROGRAMS BECAUSE IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO!

HERE is what REPUBLICANS, including the Libertarian ASSHOLE Profit over People and Planet Koch Brothers AND the (FASCIST) Heritage Foundation PLAN. WHY DO YOU, EDDIE, ASHVIN AND K-DOG, SUPPORT THAT PLAN BY VOTING REPUBLICAN?


(https://image.cagle.com/204492/1155/204492.png)

October 31, 2018

The GOP Dessert scheduled for AFTER the elections next week

(https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/madison.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/7/86/78644a27-ef89-5a89-b504-8d911902b10b/5abe63f1f2f4b.image.jpg?crop=677%2C381%2C0%2C55&resize=677%2C381&order=crop%2Cresize)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmapzV6WwAANdVH.jpg)


(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-yXobwb8yPZo/WEr9LjPLibI/AAAAAAAAmgg/lyA6Ssavwq0htX_sTRr9Ob79y_gSXvy_QCLcB/s1600/Paul%2BRyan%2Band%2BMedicare.jpg)


(http://act.txdemocrats.org/page/-/TXdem-TrumpMedicareSS-LP-v2%20%281%29.png)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmYYzWbWsAAJScg.jpg)

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQI9dD_PsEhgZP9dCvfd86Z7zgzq7TExfTRbMInikQZDcFb-s3qHw)

Listen, you fuckin' crackhead. I'm not attacking Social Security and Medicare.  If the system doesn't collapse soon, I'll be a recipient of both. My wife is 65. I'm 63 next month.

I support social programs. As I said already, just today, I support universal healthcare. I think it should be single payer too. It works.

I support free college for anyone who wants to go.

All you can do is call me names. I was so respectful to you for so long, because I really wanted to persuade you that I was a decent human being and NOT the guy you love to hate.

I tried that and it netted me nothing. Now you can get the fuck outa dodge, or listen to me call you an asshole, because that's who you are.

Want some more? The gloves are off buddy. Come on. You want to fight? I got what you want. I'll give you as much ass-kickin' as you need to get your fill.

Come on Pinnochio, Tell us another lie.

Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on November 01, 2018, 02:17:30 PM
But for some reason I ascribe to weakness, RE has given Ashvin the run of the place to add nothing, contribute nothing but to make a case for his new Messiah. I'll take that shit up with RE when he's up to it, and I'll deal with Peterson's oeuvre when I have more time. Which i don't now.

It sounds like you are campaigning to have me banned permanently. So I'll also ascribe to some weakness and tone my language back a notch. I haven't personally insulted anyone since my last temporary ban, but I won't even refer to anyone as an "idelogue" anymore. I just want everything to be perfectly transparent to anyone paying attention when it happens.

I'd also request that a poll be run before, since you accuse me of adding/contributing nothing - let's see what the rest of the Diners think. I'm sure I don't have the privileges to put one up myself.

Quote
Peterson is a Youtube star with a distinct following amount the angy, young, white, and otherwise without agency crowd. Very big with the incels, so they tell me.

He has faced and responded to this claim many times, most recently in the interview I posted here. There seem to be two primary reasons why you could say he is popular with young white males (who may or may not be "angry")  - 1) YouTube skews primarily male and most of his content is on YouTube, 2) young white men are being taught that their motivation and ambition to move forward in life is a BAD thing and merely an oppressive consequence of their undeserved privilege - naturally they don't respond well to such a message and are interested in someone who has a more positive one for them.

His live lectures on the other hand tend to draw men and women of all ages, as well as ethnicities across the spectrum.

Quote
Whenever someone's critique starts with, "radical left," that is a tell and they have given the game away. There is no radical left in this country except from the viewpoiint of the far edge of the reactionary right. Thus does a vile insect like Ashvin class anyone as "ideologue" anyone who does not sup uncritically at the table of Petersonism.

I could also say whenever someone starts a description of someone else as a "vile insect", reminiscent of language used in tribal genocides, they have given the game way.

Quote
Peterson asserts that postmodern philosophers and sociologists since the 1960s[ have insinuated core tenets of Marxism and communism into academe. which is what you say when things aren't going your way and you can't get what you want.He echoes Kunstler's bleats of "cultural Maoists," which so thrill the Ayn Rand company sucks still hiding in the corners around here, but which offend people able to observe the world as it is and think. He says academe was infected with an influence of postmodernism thought that migrated from France to the US via Jacques Derrida and others. We also know how the French fuck up everything. Order up some freedom fries with your pitcher of Blue Ribbon.

This isn't an opinion of his - it's just an undeniable fact. Postmodern philosophers and thinkers (ones who take it seriously) would also tell you that it started in France with Derrida, Foucault and others and migrated here. No one denies that. They don't see it as a bad thing, and why should they? France has generated a lot of great philosophy over the years, among other things. Rene Girard would be a good recent example.

Quote
As a YouTube star, he offers up plenty for his fanbois to chew on. Conservative views on religion, trans issues, and on feminism. From what I have seen, much of what he says is incoherent and ambiguous. So his acolytes dismiss any criticism as mere misrepresentations of his views. See, if you don't agree, then clearly you don't understand. Or are an unmitigated ideologue.

The same fucking technique of manipulation we've seen in evidence here. Lather, rinse, repeat.

I actually haven't heard ANY of his critics describe him as "incoherent" or "ambiguous". That's a new one for me.
Title: Re: Republicans want to ELIMINATE Social Security AND Medicare
Post by: Ashvin on November 01, 2018, 02:29:25 PM
He is just a distraction to woo those Big IQ folks who love money and could give a SHIT about social programs that help the poor and downtrodden victims of Capitalist Cruelty in the USA (and Canada too, by the way).

Yet it always seems to be the people who have a lot of money, OR who have reached the point that they don't need any, who preach its evils and the evils of property ownership and free markets and capitalism etc.. Talk that stuff to someone actually struggling with poverty, who have families to feed, and they will likely tell you to get lost.  Then of course they will be accused of being brainwashed and going against their own interests, because no one knows their interests better than people who are nothing like them and face none of their difficulties.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: AJ on November 01, 2018, 03:16:42 PM
I believe people have to do what they can with what they have, where they are. I know money greases the wheels in this world. I believe in saving money and making investments. It beats the shit out of starving in your old age. If that makes me conservative, well then, I'll own it.

I literally hate the Rush Limbaughs and Glenn Becks of the world. I hate the Trumps and the Paul Ryans and the Greg Abbotts.

So it sort of chaps my buns to be called conservative, frankly.
Sorry Eddie,
I don't think you are a conservative, just a little more conservative than I am (you're still living in Texas  ;) a place that was way too right wing for me). And I think I called myself a liberal?? I also have voted almost always democratic (holding my nose the whole time).
I don't think I have any money other than through luck (luck at being white, luck by virtue of where I lived, luck by marrying someone who made a horrendous income, luck, luck, luck) - and maybe a little to do to with being conservative with money I lucked into. I agree you have to do what you can with what you have. I don't think that is liberal or conservative, just smart.
I hate the  same people you do. I just wish there was truly progressive taxation to soak the rich to the benefit of those who did not have the luck I did. But all that is water under the bridge as we wait for Collapse.

Ashvin, I doubt Surly or RE would condemn me for using my brain with the money I had.

AJ
Title: Exactly Right, Surly! ✨
Post by: agelbert on November 01, 2018, 04:23:21 PM
Peterson's grant wasn't denied because of political reasons;

Sorry, but I don't see any evidence that this is true. You don't even know the identities of the people who made the decision, unless you know them personally. It isn't public knowledge, to the best of my ability to investigate.

To assume that it  isn't political, just because "Julia Gualtieri — a spokesman for the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada "  said so, is extremely naive and makes me think you don't know too much about academic bureaucracies. I'd like to see your proof. I know you're busy right now.

You might notice, I'm just demanding proof. I think you're wrong, but I'm prepared to eat some crow if you're right. Let's get to the truth.

I think the burden is on you and AG anybody else who wants to make this case on Peterson.  You are making claims that I think are misplaced. I want some evidence. Good evidence. So far that is not forthcoming from either of you.


I don't know any of the involved personally.  These grants are generally paneled. The panelists rated them poorly.

Peterson, with an axe to grind, says it was "political." Of course he did.

And the great swarm of Peterson fanbois rush in to nod furiously in bobbleheaded enthusiasm. Bottom line: the U said it wasn't political, Peterson says it was. And then the nazis held a bake sale to fund him.

Another case of "he said, she said." As I recall last time we had one of these you came down hard for the accused.

I was hoping not to get sucked into this Peterson bullshit, and to have to do a careful vivisection of his body of work, because frankly, I have a life. And I prefer to not drink from sewers. But for some reason I ascribe to weakness, RE has given Ashvin the run of the place to add nothing, contribute nothing but to make a case for his new Messiah. I'll take that shit up with RE when he's up to it, and I'll deal with Peterson's oeuvre when I have more time. Which i don't now.

Peterson is a Youtube star with a distinct following amount the angy, young, white, and otherwise without agency crowd. Very big with the incels, so they tell me.

Whenever someone's critique starts with, "radical left," that is a tell and they have given the game away. There is no radical left in this country except from the viewpoiint of the far edge of the reactionary right. Thus does a vile insect like Ashvin class anyone as "ideologue" anyone who does not sup uncritically at the table of Petersonism.

Peterson asserts that postmodern philosophers and sociologists since the 1960s[ have insinuated core tenets of Marxism and communism into academe. which is what you say when things aren't going your way and you can't get what you want.He echoes Kunstler's bleats of "cultural Maoists," which so thrill the Ayn Rand company sucks still hiding in the corners around here, but which offend people able to observe the world as it is and think. He says academe was infected with an influence of postmodernism thought that migrated from France to the US via Jacques Derrida and others. We also know how the French fuck up everything. Order up some freedom fries with your pitcher of Blue Ribbon.

As a YouTube star, he offers up plenty for his fanbois to chew on. Conservative views on religion, trans issues, and on feminism. From what I have seen, much of what he says is incoherent and ambiguous. So his acolytes dismiss any criticism as mere misrepresentations of his views. See, if you don't agree, then clearly you don't understand. Or are an unmitigated ideologue.

The same fucking technique of manipulation we've seen in evidence here. Lather, rinse, repeat.

(http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-020818221632-1610966.gif)


I will add one bit of advice that I will now take in regard to those, like Eddie and Ashvin, who have shown their true colors (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-120818185039-1654984.gif)(http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-120818185039-16531848.gif) (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-210818163124-16672489.gif) (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-120818185039-1650578.gif)(http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/1/3-210818163126-16781285.gif) with some rather stomach turning insults directed at me. (http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/sick/barfing-smiley-emoticon.gif)

Surly, you will recall the PM discourse I had with you some months back. You will recall my feelings about the base vulgarity of the discourse here on threads I was not even posting on, that had nothing to do with me or my POV.

I came back here now because I knew the Right Wing Propagandists were going to make a push here to help the Republican FASCISTS stay in power so that the full Fascist Trump "Paradise" can be ushered in. I came just to counter them as best I could. I knew it would get hot and heavy very quickly. These fuckers are hell bent (AND hellbound too!) to destroy this country long before Climate Change does. THAT has a LOT to do with why you see them so angry and so much in an arrogant huff about one of their pet High IQ "credentialed" Apologists.

They get the fact that Social Security and Medicare  ELIMINATION, a stated Republican goal, is something they have to counter with lots of LIES and arm waving, doing everything they can to discredit anyone who has the temerity to call BULLSHIT on their claims that Trump et al and bought and paid assholes like Jordan Peterson aren't part of that empathy deficit disordered EVIL. They are all full of mendacious, puke inspired malice and aforethought SHIT. They cannot do anything but wallow in, defend and celebrate, their Right Wing Authoritarian, money loving, money chasing modus vivendi, no matter how damaging to the country AND/OR to the environment. They do not have the remotest idea of what logic and comon sense is. They cannot see beyond their bank accounts. These people are wells without water. They cannot be reasoned with.

So, I will now take Gillum's advice when Trumo called him a liar. 

Gillum posted: “I heard @realDonaldTrump ran home to @FoxNews to lie about me. But as my grandmother told me—never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty, but the pig likes it.”


😀
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on November 01, 2018, 04:37:04 PM
Get off this thread, you lying old douchebag.

I gave you a chance to back up your  character assassination piece de resistance, and you came up short.

So shoo! Get out!

I didn't have the PRIVILEGE of attending one of the most prestigious universities in the world, or flying my own plane, like you did when you were young. I started with exactly nothing.

You know, I do have a small inheritance that I share with my younger brothers. What remains of my grandfather's farm..I wrote it into my will, to give it to them. I never needed it.

Chicken little, I'm looking out at a big beautiful Texas sky, and if you don't go to bed, I'm going to let it fall on you. And if that doesn't work, I'm going to smack the shit out you with it.




.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on November 01, 2018, 05:36:42 PM

I was hoping not to get sucked into this Peterson bullshit, and to have to do a careful vivisection of his body of work, because frankly, I have a life. And I prefer to not drink from sewers. But for some reason I ascribe to weakness, RE has given Ashvin the run of the place to add nothing, contribute nothing but to make a case for his new Messiah. I'll take that shit up with RE when he's up to it, and I'll deal with Peterson's oeuvre when I have more time. Which i don't now.
.

My weakness?  I turned over moderation of the forum to you and Eddie quite some time back.  If you want Watson gone, axe him permanently.  I've given him 2 trips to the cooler already.


RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Surly1 on November 01, 2018, 06:00:48 PM
I believe people have to do what they can with what they have, where they are. I know money greases the wheels in this world. I believe in saving money and making investments. It beats the shit out of starving in your old age. If that makes me conservative, well then, I'll own it.

I literally hate the Rush Limbaughs and Glenn Becks of the world. I hate the Trumps and the Paul Ryans and the Greg Abbotts.

So it sort of chaps my buns to be called conservative, frankly.
Sorry Eddie,
I don't think you are a conservative, just a little more conservative than I am (you're still living in Texas  ;) a place that was way too right wing for me). And I think I called myself a liberal?? I also have voted almost always democratic (holding my nose the whole time).
I don't think I have any money other than through luck (luck at being white, luck by virtue of where I lived, luck by marrying someone who made a horrendous income, luck, luck, luck) - and maybe a little to do to with being conservative with money I lucked into. I agree you have to do what you can with what you have. I don't think that is liberal or conservative, just smart.
I hate the  same people you do. I just wish there was truly progressive taxation to soak the rich to the benefit of those who did not have the luck I did. But all that is water under the bridge as we wait for Collapse.

Ashvin, I doubt Surly or RE would condemn me for using my brain with the money I had.

AJ

In that last, you are correct.

I don't condemn Eddie in any way, either. RE likes to chap Eddie's balls about being "rich," whatever that is, whereas he's a professional who worked his ass off, made decent bank, invested in a variety things and raised a family of attractive, successful people. That's a hell of a legacy for anyone.

He is most often very common sense, and contributes here in a number of topics and threads aside from this one. We differ on what he terms "identity politics, " and has his reasons. Whereas I think the very notion of a complaint about lefty "identity politics" is ludicrous when right wing blood-and-soil identity politics is steadily amassing a body count. So we argue. Part of why we're here.

Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Surly1 on November 01, 2018, 06:30:17 PM
But for some reason I ascribe to weakness, RE has given Ashvin the run of the place to add nothing, contribute nothing but to make a case for his new Messiah. I'll take that shit up with RE when he's up to it, and I'll deal with Peterson's oeuvre when I have more time. Which i don't now.

It sounds like you are campaigning to have me banned permanently. So I'll also ascribe to some weakness and tone my language back a notch. I haven't personally insulted anyone since my last temporary ban, but I won't even refer to anyone as an "idelogue" anymore. I just want everything to be perfectly transparent to anyone paying attention when it happens.

I would have never reinstated you. For reasons I have already adduced somewhere above, also "perfectly transparently:" You only comment here on one topic and one topic alone, preach the gospel of your new false Messiah, to sow discord and pit people against one another. It remains to be seen how successful this tiny, localized version of "divide and conquer" will be. You are a troll, and are here to troll.  You have even disabused yourself of the very premises of this board: you asked RE to take down your contributions as you tried to scrub your online identity because you no longer believe any of the things you wrote some years ago. Or so you have said.

You contribute nothing to any threads.

I'd also request that a poll be run before, since you accuse me of adding/contributing nothing - let's see what the rest of the Diners think. I'm sure I don't have the privileges to put one up myself.

If you go to someone's home and get in an argument with the owner, do you take a poll before he throws you out? Now that's funny.

No, you are here only to sow discord and be so provocative and obnoxious that RE has no option but to ban you. Saw this act before with MKing, with GO nuzzling his hindquarters at the time as well.

So I'll put it to you straight, counselor: if, since you have renounced your prior body of work relating to collapse and doom, why traffic an out of the way website like the Doomstead Diner? Or, put another way, if we're such assholes, why are you still here?
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on November 01, 2018, 07:43:57 PM
So I'll put it to you straight, counselor: if, since you have renounced your prior body of work relating to collapse and doom, why traffic an out of the way website like the Doomstead Diner? Or, put another way, if we're such assholes, why are you still here?

Here's a straight answer - I come here to share what I think are very interesting discussions that are being had in public intellectual circles. Look at the name of this thread that I started. Does the fact that I post videos of Jordan Peterson, who Eddie has also gone to great lengths to defend, equate to me "shitting in your house"? Apparently it does in your mind, because you are the one who responded to a video I posted with an article equating Peterson to someone who would have stopped the Civil Rights marches if he could have - and you are the one who called him a "neofascist". Eddie was the first one to call that nonsense out.

What does my support of Peterson have to do with Collapse, exactly? I am not undermining that narrative at all, even though I don't necessarily agree with it. Clearly people here are interested in Peterson and people voicing similar concerns as him - I am not the first one to bring him up and Eddie, who you say is "most often very common sense", is a huge fan of his as well. Do you think that's some small part of his brain that has malfunctioned, or been manipulated by me? Come on, give the guy more credit than that.

We all know why don't want to run the poll I suggested. You won't like the results. Feel free to continue bashing my contributions here, I don't really care - I'm done responding to you and RE and AG (who is quite clearly the worst violator of the CoC rules than anyone else). I'll just post the videos and let you guys do the character assassinations - I don't think anyone else here is buying it anymore.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on November 01, 2018, 07:53:31 PM
My favorite example of Peterson taking an ideologue interviewer to task:

http://www.youtube.com/v/7QRQjrsFnR4

On another thread, I mentioned that I've been reading the blog of a guy who has written a lot about money and exchange, over the years. His politics do not align with mine, but he's a smart guy. He invented Mastercard, way back in 1967.

 He takes the  false narrative of the liberals to task too. That part I'm good with...the rest I read to understand why a really smart guy might like Trump, because he does. Certain smart people do, like Scott Adams the cartoonist, who is still writing a lot about him.

I see the other side too well, and I view the guy (Trump I mean) as a dangerous loose cannon. But FYI. You might get something out of reading Michael Phillips. His latest blog post attempts to shed some light on how the left got to here. He says it started way back.

https://phillips.blogs.com/ (https://phillips.blogs.com/)

I finally remembered this and got around to checking it out. I like what I am reading so far. His latest post touching on the issue of immigration/mass migration ends with this - "No one has an answer, that I know of." That's for damn sure!
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on November 01, 2018, 08:05:18 PM
So I'll put it to you straight, counselor: if, since you have renounced your prior body of work relating to collapse and doom, why traffic an out of the way website like the Doomstead Diner? Or, put another way, if we're such assholes, why are you still here?

Here's a straight answer - I come here to share what I think are very interesting discussions that are being had in public intellectual circles. Look at the name of this thread that I started. Does the fact that I post videos of Jordan Peterson, who Eddie has also gone to great lengths to defend, equate to me "shitting in your house"? Apparently it does in your mind, because you are the one who responded to a video I posted with an article equating Peterson to someone who would have stopped the Civil Rights marches if he could have - and you are the one who called him a "neofascist". Eddie was the first one to call that nonsense out.

What does my support of Peterson have to do with Collapse, exactly? I am not undermining that narrative at all, even though I don't necessarily agree with it. Clearly people here are interested in Peterson and people voicing similar concerns as him - I am not the first one to bring him up and Eddie, who you say is "most often very common sense", is a huge fan of his as well. Do you think that's some small part of his brain that has malfunctioned, or been manipulated by me? Come on, give the guy more credit than that.

We all know why don't want to run the poll I suggested. You won't like the results. Feel free to continue bashing my contributions here, I don't really care - I'm done responding to you and RE and AG (who is quite clearly the worst violator of the CoC rules than anyone else). I'll just post the videos and let you guys do the character assassinations - I don't think anyone else here is buying it anymore.

OK, we get it, you think JP is the greatest political philosopher to hit video since William F Buckley Jr's Firing Line went off the air.  Now, try moving on to another topic with a more direct connection to collapse, like say climate change.  This website is not a promotional platform for a pseuointellectual hoser academic who appeals to Fascist readers looking for self-justification.

RE

Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on November 01, 2018, 08:37:24 PM
So I'll put it to you straight, counselor: if, since you have renounced your prior body of work relating to collapse and doom, why traffic an out of the way website like the Doomstead Diner? Or, put another way, if we're such assholes, why are you still here?

Here's a straight answer - I come here to share what I think are very interesting discussions that are being had in public intellectual circles. Look at the name of this thread that I started. Does the fact that I post videos of Jordan Peterson, who Eddie has also gone to great lengths to defend, equate to me "shitting in your house"? Apparently it does in your mind, because you are the one who responded to a video I posted with an article equating Peterson to someone who would have stopped the Civil Rights marches if he could have - and you are the one who called him a "neofascist". Eddie was the first one to call that nonsense out.

What does my support of Peterson have to do with Collapse, exactly? I am not undermining that narrative at all, even though I don't necessarily agree with it. Clearly people here are interested in Peterson and people voicing similar concerns as him - I am not the first one to bring him up and Eddie, who you say is "most often very common sense", is a huge fan of his as well. Do you think that's some small part of his brain that has malfunctioned, or been manipulated by me? Come on, give the guy more credit than that.

We all know why don't want to run the poll I suggested. You won't like the results. Feel free to continue bashing my contributions here, I don't really care - I'm done responding to you and RE and AG (who is quite clearly the worst violator of the CoC rules than anyone else). I'll just post the videos and let you guys do the character assassinations - I don't think anyone else here is buying it anymore.

OK, we get it, you think JP is the greatest political philosopher to hit video since William F Buckley Jr's Firing Line went off the air.  Now, try moving on to another topic with a more direct connection to collapse, like say climate change.  This website is not a promotional platform for a pseuointellectual hoser academic who appeals to Fascist readers looking for self-justification.

RE

I'm not moving off the IDW topic any time soon. This website used to have a place for philosophical, theological and spiritual discussions. As I have said before, but I'm sure went unnoticed, is that I am most fascinated by Peterson's philosophical and theological perspectives, not his "political philosopher" perspectives.

The guy has an entire lecture series of 30+hours on the book of Genesis - yes, that's right, just the book of Genesis. He plans on tackling Exodus pretty soon. There's nothing political or "fascist" about any of that.

All of his YouTube content is free, which include videos which basically serve as audio books for the two best selling books he wrote - Maps of Meaning and 12 Rules for Life. Again, not even a hint of fascism.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on November 01, 2018, 09:20:50 PM

I'm not moving off the IDW topic any time soon. This website used to have a place for philosophical, theological and spiritual discussions. As I have said before, but I'm sure went unnoticed, is that I am most fascinated by Peterson's philosophical and theological perspectives, not his "political philosopher" perspectives.

That is unfortunate, since it is now a Violation of the CoC to post in only one thread or focus on one author or topic to the exclusion of all others.  You  have reached your limit on JP.  If you want to post more fan mail, I suggest you start a JP Ass Kissers Website.


RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: K-Dog on November 02, 2018, 12:52:06 AM
Newbies to doom think 'the problems' can be fixed if we all come together.

C'mon people now
Smile on your brother
Ev'rybody get together
Try to love one another right now


Yeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaa,
not.

After the freshness of doom fades the newbie finds out that in general people really don't give a shit if humanity survives or not and there are people who will actively engage in activities that will hasten doom if it is in there best interest to so act.  Realizing this will eventually cause one to conclude that we are fucked but the idea will be resisted for a very long time.

But in that Camelot utopian newbie dream,

http://www.youtube.com/v/1orcZAf6v4E?ecver=1

If you hear the song we sing
You will understand listen
You hold the key to love and fear
All in your trembling hand
Just one key unlocks them both
It's there at your command


we imagine everyone coming together and doing the right thing.  Everyone being responsible together.

http://www.youtube.com/v/_uuRtx_BCjQ?ecver=1

Here JP speaks to having meaning in life by being responsible.  Do something difficult and heroic he says.

Like mitigate collapse!

Because some success is better than none.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Surly1 on November 02, 2018, 04:15:11 AM
Quote
Newbies to doom think 'the problems' can be fixed if we all come together.

And to whom exactly on this thread does the straw man "newbies to doom" apply?
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: g on November 02, 2018, 05:38:45 AM
Quote
Newbies to doom think 'the problems' can be fixed if we all come together.

And to whom exactly on this thread does the straw man "newbies to doom" apply?

I took it to mean a reference to everyone in the world Surly, not directed at just the Diner population.

Of course we all read and interpret postings differently but in this case I feel strongly you are far adrift from the intended audience.

Found myself thinking quite a bit about this posting, it caused me much thought and quite frankly it depressed the hell out of me.

Quite often I ask myself, "What's the Use",  many people just don't give a shit, as K-Dog correctly points out, and the world obviously needs a joint effort with everyone participating.    :dontknow:
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on November 02, 2018, 05:54:00 AM
Newbies to doom think 'the problems' can be fixed if we all come together.

C'mon people now
Smile on your brother
Ev'rybody get together
Try to love one another right now


Yeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaa,
not.

After the freshness of doom fades the newbie finds out that in general people really don't give a shit if humanity survives or not and there are people who will actively engage in activities that will hasten doom if it is in there best interest to so act.  Realizing this will eventually cause one to conclude that we are fucked but the idea will be resisted for a very long time.

But in that Camelot utopian newbie dream,

http://www.youtube.com/v/1orcZAf6v4E?ecver=1

If you hear the song we sing
You will understand listen
You hold the key to love and fear
All in your trembling hand
Just one key unlocks them both
It's there at your command


we imagine everyone coming together and doing the right thing.  Everyone being responsible together.

http://www.youtube.com/v/_uuRtx_BCjQ?ecver=1

Here JP speaks to having meaning in life by being responsible.  Do something difficult and heroic he says.

Like mitigate collapse!

Because some success is better than none.

A worthy goal. but it's also a worth goal to try to help young men deal with the difficult task of taking responsibility for their own lives, which is what JP is really about. Not about politics at all. If the silly academic PC police had not come for him, I don't think he'd have become such a lightning rod.  I repeat....He is not about politics. He's about mentoring young males, who badly need someone like him.

I get what you're saying about newbies...but that isn't quite exactly right, imho. Not so much newbies, but people who have a mistaken idea about how collapse manifests. As you have stated eloquently on other threads, it isn't a simple process.

For Rome it took 300 years. It won't take us that long, but people do need to understand that collapse is a long process in terms of our short human lives. We see it ongoing. We will not see the end, those of us alive now.

People want to make collapse into a simple meme they can grasp, so they latch on to a lot of false messages being offered by people who are merchants of fear and financial predators.

Some notable false memes:

The USD dollar is going  to become worthless within a few years.

One day all the gas stations will close at once, and never re-open.

It's a good idea to emigrate to some foreign country.

Your'e a bad guy if you don't drop out and move to an off-grid doomstead.

Saving for your future is stupid because there is no future.

BAU is an inherently evil process that can be and needs to be ended by a revolution.

Economic crashes are good, because they hasten the process.

Once BAU ends, we can begin an idyllic way of neo-Victorian living with horses and carriages

I believe in collapse. But I also believe collapse is not a single event. It is a multifactoral, long, drawn out process that can be successfully denied or ignored until something happens to you personally that changes your life. Most people will never be aware of it.




Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on November 02, 2018, 06:22:15 AM
I believe in collapse. But I also believe collapse is not a single event. It is a multifactoral, long, drawn out process that can be successfully denied or ignored until something happens to you personally that changes your life. Most people will never be aware of it.

That's a very good observation. Everyone will experience a personal collapse (or a few) during their lifetimes, regardless of what is happening in the broader society. If the broader society is undergoing collapse as well, i.e. a financial collapse in this case, it will magnify the experience of a personal collapse. This is why people need to become resilient no matter what they believe about the future.

On the other hand, given the rapid technological developments in society, especially in communication networks, there is also the possibility that ONE person's decisions to take on maximal responsibility for themselves, their family and their community could ripple out into society and have vastly outsized effects. The odds get even better with a few people or a few groups of people making such decisions. I believe this is where you can find some optimism, GO, and perhaps an answer to the question of "what's the use?"

It's a fool's game IMO to try and predict any of this stuff with anything approximating certainty, though. The individual level of analysis is the only one that makes sense to me anymore. For example, I have been following debates about the dangers/benefits of Artificial Intelligence systems. You have people like Elon Musk who really believe the dangers are immense and not far off, and then you have people like this guy Lex Fridman who are not so sure:

http://www.youtube.com/v/j5FOumrXyww

It's a fascinating discussion to me, but in the end I'm not sure anyone can predict what will happen with these AI systems with any useful degree of certainty.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Surly1 on November 02, 2018, 06:26:58 AM
Quote
Newbies to doom think 'the problems' can be fixed if we all come together.

And to whom exactly on this thread does the straw man "newbies to doom" apply?

I took it to mean a reference to everyone in the world Surly, not directed at just the Diner population.

Of course we all read and interpret postings differently but in this case I feel strongly you are far adrift from the intended audience.

Found myself thinking quite a bit about this posting, it caused me much thought and quite frankly it depressed the hell out of me.

Quite often I ask myself, "What's the Use",  many people just don't give a shit, as K-Dog correctly points out, and the world obviously needs a joint effort with everyone participating.    :dontknow:

You could be right. I assumed Kd was referencing diners, because whothehell else reads this stuff?

I just read a post by Eddie in which he lists a number of false memes popular among noobs, I agree.
If any validation is needed, a visit to r/collapse will confirm. There are a lot of people spinning up to speed on their futures, or more.
Apropos of that subject, r/collapse is exploding in membership, and has crossed 80,000 subs. this form the same forum:

80,000 subscribers! The pace of growth is accelerating. New People where did you come from? What brought you here? Why did you subscribe? Tell us about yourself.
https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/9sx6h2/80000_subscribers_the_pace_of_growth_is/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/9sx6h2/80000_subscribers_the_pace_of_growth_is/)
The stories of what attracted people to the sub are quite varied.

Someone graphed their growth:
(https://preview.redd.it/krtp54zg9uv11.png?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=5fb8c23f5c64ded39e02e35ebd1ec4133386a553)
Note this is just for 2018.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: g on November 02, 2018, 06:29:08 AM

Eddie I would like to just disagree about one item you listed in your false meme list, the one about emigrating to another country.

Many folks have considered it and thought it a worthwhile idea for various reasons, including myself at times. Some we know of like Nicole Foss, as only one example, have seemed to find solace in New Zealand, as far as I last head anyway.

Without belaboring the point it appears to me to misplaced with the other memes with which we both are in agreement. 

Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: g on November 02, 2018, 06:58:47 AM
I believe in collapse. But I also believe collapse is not a single event. It is a multifactoral, long, drawn out process that can be successfully denied or ignored until something happens to you personally that changes your life. Most people will never be aware of it.

That's a very good observation. Everyone will experience a personal collapse (or a few) during their lifetimes, regardless of what is happening in the broader society. If the broader society is undergoing collapse as well, i.e. a financial collapse in this case, it will magnify the experience of a personal collapse. This is why people need to become resilient no matter what they believe about the future.

On the other hand, given the rapid technological developments in society, especially in communication networks, there is also the possibility that ONE person's decisions to take on maximal responsibility for themselves, their family and their community could ripple out into society and have vastly outsized effects. The odds get even better with a few people or a few groups of people making such decisions. I believe this is where you can find some optimism, GO, and perhaps an answer to the question of "what's the use?"

It's a fool's game IMO to try and predict any of this stuff with anything approximating certainty, though. The individual level of analysis is the only one that makes sense to me anymore. For example, I have been following debates about the dangers/benefits of Artificial Intelligence systems. You have people like Elon Musk who really believe the dangers are immense and not far off, and then you have people like this guy Lex Fridman who are not so sure:

http://www.youtube.com/v/j5FOumrXyww

It's a fascinating discussion to me, but in the end I'm not sure anyone can predict what will happen with these AI systems with any useful degree of certainty.

Hi Ashvin, I didn't mean to sound so dour.

My thoughts were with my fifteen year old grand daughter who came home this week with her hair dyed green and my daughter, her mother, in tears. They have as much interest in doom and the environment as I do in running the Boston Marathon this year with my cane.

Won't go into much detail about my four boy grand kids one of them a video game champion with titles at 13 years of age, they would get anyone depressed if they were looking for kids aware of doom possibilities or the environment.  ;D

Not that I was any different, was too busy earning a living to ponder much about such things. My view is that these ideas come to a  majority of us later in life, when we have time to think about them seriously and not just flippantly when youngsters with so much else on our minds.

Whatever, K-Dog's posting made me reflect on such thoughts and how very few people care about many of the topics that Diner's dwell or reflect upon daily.   
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on November 02, 2018, 07:49:34 AM
So I started reading the comments on that r/collapse thread, and I got to this one:

Quote
I hoped for the same or some sort of space colony. But I have just started wondering whether consciousness is a good thing. It's mostly torture, with some moments of joy. The universe maybe shouldn't be conscious of the horrible shit that goes on in it. Actually it wouldn't be horrible if there were no consciousness.

Maybe it was a total fluke and it's better that it goes away. Some might say that life is meaningless without it, but it's meaningless in the long run anyway.

This is scary on so many different levels. One is that the idea that consciousness is "mostly torture" is not that far off from the truth. This is the existential dilemma that many great philosophers have thought about and all major religions identify with - "life is suffering". So what to do about that or make of it?

One conclusion to draw is that of the above poster. Total nihilism - rejecting all meaning in the present by reference to unreasonably long time frames - "in a million or billion years none of this will matter". And I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that once a person gets there, they are uncomfortably close to either suicide or something akin to this:

"I will sooner die than betray my own thoughts, but before I leave this worthless place, I will kill whoever I deem unfit..."
"You know what I hate? .....MANKIND!!!!...kill everything...kill everything..."

-Columbine shooter

What is the antidote to this? Religious narratives. They are the only ones with enough meaning and import to confront the existential dilemma and provide an adequate, reliable and consistent answer. They provide an answer that WORKS. The ones that work really well are the ones that develop an ethos of personal responsibility - responsibility for one's own participation in the pain/suffering/malevolence of life, and responsibility for one's own moral obligation to do something about it.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on November 02, 2018, 08:25:21 AM
Hi Ashvin, I didn't mean to sound so dour.

My thoughts were with my fifteen year old grand daughter who came home this week with her hair dyed green and my daughter, her mother, in tears. They have as much interest in doom and the environment as I do in running the Boston Marathon this year with my cane.

Won't go into much detail about my four boy grand kids one of them a video game champion with titles at 13 years of age, they would get anyone depressed if they were looking for kids aware of doom possibilities or the environment.  ;D

Not that I was any different, was too busy earning a living to ponder much about such things. My view is that these ideas come to a  majority of us later in life, when we have time to think about them seriously and not just flippantly when youngsters with so much else on our minds.

I understand, but then you have to ask yourself - how much good would come of your grandchildren having more "interest in doom and the environment"? I mean, having awareness of things going on around you is great, even critical at some point, but "interest" could be a whole different story, depending on what kind of interests they have already. Also depending on a whole bunch of other factors, like their personalities and social environments. I don't think we want impressionable kids high in trait neuroticism, for ex, developing a significant interest in "doom".
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on November 02, 2018, 09:03:15 AM
Quote
author=Golden Oxen link=topic=11448.msg164041#msg164041 date=1541165348]

Eddie I would like to just disagree about one item you listed in your false meme list, the one about emigrating to another country.

Many folks have considered it and thought it a worthwhile idea for various reasons, including myself at times. Some we know of like Nicole Foss, as only one example, have seemed to find solace in New Zealand, as far as I last head anyway.

Without belaboring the point it appears to me to misplaced with the other memes with which we both are in agreement.

I like Canada, but to me it only makes sense for young people who don't have a lot to lose by making the jump, or maybe somebody at retirement age.  If you're in the middle of life, it'll cost you tremendously to cash out here and cover the move, get a new career, etc. Everyone has a different set of circumstances, of course.

My wife has been to NZ and she loved it. The country and the people.

But New Zealand is a tough one unless you have real means, and I don't think it's nearly as perfect as most people who spend the money to make it happen believe. But there are worse places.

I don't like Chile and Argentina. Too many poor people who have been told the land belongs to them, even though it's belonged to rich people for the last 300 years. Mexico? Nope. Not me.

Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: K-Dog on November 02, 2018, 09:13:01 AM
Happy to see I kicked up some reasonable discussion.

I did mean newbie in the 'global sense' and my reason to bring newbies up was to tie in Jordan's Peterson message to collapse.  As Eddies says Peterson is popular with young men and his focus is on individual responsibility in ones own life, but that message is also a message that would lead to social changes that mitigate collapse.

I say Peterson is a Diner an does not even know it.  The collapse Peterson's fears is a social collapse.  He may not know methane frozen up in the Arctic is vaporizing and will warm the planet up so tens of millions of Americans will be unemployed for decades from the consequent troubles but he has the right message.  He has our answer but not our question.

Guy McPherson advocates just pouring a bottle of steak sauce over your head since we are all going to cook anyway and giving up.  Kunstler whines and Orlov wants your money so 'he' can survive collapse. 

I say get responsible.  I will echo Peterson.  Do something about the future and as Peterson says start with your own room.  I am, and having more than one room to clean I am pretty busy these days.  As that room gets clean you get strong.  As that room gets clean your strength might even take issue with other Diners who compare Peterson to the Koch brothers and nazis without any more reason than the person accusing having a deranged mind.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: K-Dog on November 02, 2018, 09:22:10 AM
I believe in collapse. But I also believe collapse is not a single event. It is a multifactoral, long, drawn out process that can be successfully denied or ignored until something happens to you personally that changes your life. Most people will never be aware of it.

That's a very good observation. Everyone will experience a personal collapse (or a few) during their lifetimes, regardless of what is happening in the broader society. If the broader society is undergoing collapse as well, i.e. a financial collapse in this case, it will magnify the experience of a personal collapse. This is why people need to become resilient no matter what they believe about the future.

On the other hand, given the rapid technological developments in society, especially in communication networks, there is also the possibility that ONE person's decisions to take on maximal responsibility for themselves, their family and their community could ripple out into society and have vastly outsized effects. The odds get even better with a few people or a few groups of people making such decisions. I believe this is where you can find some optimism, GO, and perhaps an answer to the question of "what's the use?"

It's a fool's game IMO to try and predict any of this stuff with anything approximating certainty, though. The individual level of analysis is the only one that makes sense to me anymore. For example, I have been following debates about the dangers/benefits of Artificial Intelligence systems. You have people like Elon Musk who really believe the dangers are immense and not far off, and then you have people like this guy Lex Fridman who are not so sure:

http://www.youtube.com/v/j5FOumrXyww

It's a fascinating discussion to me, but in the end I'm not sure anyone can predict what will happen with these AI systems with any useful degree of certainty.

I have to bounce out and get to work so I can't watch the video now.  That is the trouble with video, time.  I want to check this Lex character out and see if he is a mathematically challenged techno-narcissist.  He's got a suit so he probably is.  If he is one, then he is worthless and takes up space better used for air.  I googled him quick.

Later

Eddies list is great.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on November 02, 2018, 09:26:48 AM
Quote
Newbies to doom think 'the problems' can be fixed if we all come together.

And to whom exactly on this thread does the straw man "newbies to doom" apply?

I took it to mean a reference to everyone in the world Surly, not directed at just the Diner population.

Of course we all read and interpret postings differently but in this case I feel strongly you are far adrift from the intended audience.

Found myself thinking quite a bit about this posting, it caused me much thought and quite frankly it depressed the hell out of me.

Quite often I ask myself, "What's the Use",  many people just don't give a shit, as K-Dog correctly points out, and the world obviously needs a joint effort with everyone participating.    :dontknow:

You could be right. I assumed Kd was referencing diners, because whothehell else reads this stuff?

I just read a post by Eddie in which he lists a number of false memes popular among noobs, I agree.
If any validation is needed, a visit to r/collapse will confirm. There are a lot of people spinning up to speed on their futures, or more.
Apropos of that subject, r/collapse is exploding in membership, and has crossed 80,000 subs. this form the same forum:

80,000 subscribers! The pace of growth is accelerating. New People where did you come from? What brought you here? Why did you subscribe? Tell us about yourself.
https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/9sx6h2/80000_subscribers_the_pace_of_growth_is/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/9sx6h2/80000_subscribers_the_pace_of_growth_is/)
The stories of what attracted people to the sub are quite varied.

Someone graphed their growth:
(https://preview.redd.it/krtp54zg9uv11.png?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=5fb8c23f5c64ded39e02e35ebd1ec4133386a553)
Note this is just for 2018.

Wow. They should come over here.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on November 02, 2018, 10:03:18 AM
I have to bounce out and get to work so I can't watch the video now.  That is the trouble with video, time.  I want to check this Lex character out and see if he is a mathematically challenged techno-narcissist.  He's got a suit so he probably is.  If he is one, then he is worthless and takes up space better used for air.  I googled him quick.

Later

Eddies list is great.

I'd suggest skipping the first 30 min or so when they talk about martial arts mostly. I thought he made interesting points when discussing AI systems re: self-driving vehicles and how slowly they are developing towards anything resembling full automation that is practical and safe. In fact the problem of unpredictable pedestrians and bicyclists may prove to be insurmountable for quite some time.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: cernunnos5 on November 02, 2018, 07:51:56 PM
Oh, Good. The yelling has stopped.

Back to the news
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on November 02, 2018, 08:22:25 PM
Oh, Good. The yelling has stopped.

Back to the news

This wouldn't be the Diner without the occasional Barfight.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/YxeMdgCxqUv16/giphy.gif)

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: K-Dog on November 03, 2018, 02:31:29 AM
I have to bounce out and get to work so I can't watch the video now.  That is the trouble with video, time.  I want to check this Lex character out and see if he is a mathematically challenged techno-narcissist.  He's got a suit so he probably is.  If he is one, then he is worthless and takes up space better used for air.  I googled him quick.

Later

Eddies list is great.

I'd suggest skipping the first 30 min or so when they talk about martial arts mostly. I thought he made interesting points when discussing AI systems re: self-driving vehicles and how slowly they are developing towards anything resembling full automation that is practical and safe. In fact the problem of unpredictable pedestrians and bicyclists may prove to be insurmountable for quite some time.

http://www.youtube.com/v/j5FOumrXyww?ecver=1

This is good, but AI would be able to watch the whole thing in a minute.  LOL.  I'm writing this halfway through the video.

Lex has it right,  Musk has it wrong.  Most people have it wrong because they were scared by the Terminator.

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.LVk0uIuw1hZZ_Xf9H1yBwgAAAA&pid=15.1&f=1) 

The suit Lex wears is to honor Richard Feynman, very cool.

I once built a simple neural network to decode Morse code.  It learned fast to get 80% right.  Getting to 95 % right took quite a bit of training.  I had a random code generator train it.  The Morse code generated was of deliberate poor quality.  I randomly tweaked the time intervals between state changes to make it sloppy.  Getting to 98% was very very hard.  I used about twenty neurons in three levels and back-propagation trained the network.  I still have the back-propagation C code around here somewhere.  I did this decades ago.

I was able to get the distinction between narrow and global AI discussed in the video very easily. 

As the distinctions needed to solve problems become more subtle the computations needed to solve them grow exponentially. A neural net becomes bigger in a linear sense but training without insight of any such net will require orders of magnitude more effort to simply double raw capability.  Insight may require consciousness is argued to prune computational tree geometric growth.  I actually don't think so.  Creativity with goal orientation without consciousness can be simulated, but to do so requires a geometric growth in training to simulate and evaluate ever more subtle alternate choice universes among an ever growing subtlety and complexity of neural interconnections.  Either way complexity will grow faster than any intelligence produced; thus complexity constrains how fast intelligence can grow.

Mother nature has been trying to get intelligence right on earth for over two billion years and she still has not got it down.  To think bits in memory can rearrange themselves with their nanosecond nimbleness using a holy grail unknown algorithm, doing what Mother Nature has failed to do in over two billion years is, bat shit crazy!
(http://interactive.sunmedia.ca/2014-10-halloween/images/bat.gif)

To be fair Mother Nature has only been trying for about 600 million years.  Multi-cellular life being a prerequisite.  A couple of billion years was needed to build the infrastructure for intelligence before experiments could even begin.  Experiments still go on.

All our times have come
Here but now they're gone
Seasons don't fear the reaper
Nor do the wind, the sun or the rain, we can be like they are
Come on baby, don't fear the reaper


And don't fear the singularity.  So don't fear the singularity.  It can't happen the math is all wrong.  Magic would be required.

http://www.youtube.com/v/uhRjyLLUdhw?ecver=1
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: AJ on November 03, 2018, 05:31:28 AM
  Experiments still go on.

Why are we all here at the Diner?? Maybe because we have figured out that Mother Nature's experiment in us was a failure. We failed because of lack of sufficient intelligence to change our long term trajectory (can't stop people from breeding and living in their excrement :(). On one level Mother Nature succeeded because we do respond well to immediate challenges - hence we lived long enough to over breed. Singularity is a pipe dream just like a fusion reactor or space travel.
AJ
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on November 03, 2018, 08:35:33 AM
To be fair Mother Nature has only been trying for about 600 million years.  Multi-cellular life being a prerequisite.  A couple of billion years was needed to build the infrastructure for intelligence before experiments could even begin.  Experiments still go on.

What are your thoughts on robotics which involve embodied intelligence, i.e. the robots are programmed with relatively simple codes to perform movements similar to humans and by moving around in the world they actually gain a type of intelligence that cannot come any other way? I'm fascinated by that idea. Also the idea that, if there is actually something to such an embodied intelligence, robots which can communicate any insights from learned patterns of behavior almost instantaneously to millions of other robots, so on and so forth, would essentially evolve over the course of days, hours and minutes.

This idea also intrigued me because it seems the most intelligent animals are the ones which can manipulate their surrounding environments and solve complex problems this way. Dolphins may be intelligent, but the type of intelligence is likely very different from that of an octopus, chimpanzee or a human. I'm not sure if there is anything to that, but it seems somewhat plausible to my lay mind.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: azozeo on November 03, 2018, 11:35:21 AM
  Experiments still go on.



Singularity is a pipe dream just like a fusion reactor or space travel.
AJ

These blinky lights aren't street lights over temple mount in Jerusalem
http://www.youtube.com/v/h1CWsAY01Jg&fs=1


You may want to rethink the above statement AJ  :icon_sunny:
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: K-Dog on November 03, 2018, 12:49:05 PM
To be fair Mother Nature has only been trying for about 600 million years.  Multi-cellular life being a prerequisite.  A couple of billion years was needed to build the infrastructure for intelligence before experiments could even begin.  Experiments still go on.

What are your thoughts on robotics which involve embodied intelligence, i.e. the robots are programmed with relatively simple codes to perform movements similar to humans and by moving around in the world they actually gain a type of intelligence that cannot come any other way? I'm fascinated by that idea. Also the idea that, if there is actually something to such an embodied intelligence, robots which can communicate any insights from learned patterns of behavior almost instantaneously to millions of other robots, so on and so forth, would essentially evolve over the course of days, hours and minutes.

This idea also intrigued me because it seems the most intelligent animals are the ones which can manipulate their surrounding environments and solve complex problems this way. Dolphins may be intelligent, but the type of intelligence is likely very different from that of an octopus, chimpanzee or a human. I'm not sure if there is anything to that, but it seems somewhat plausible to my lay mind.

The analogy to life's evolution on earth is far from perfect.  Evolution is slow because generations are involved and networked computers can replace much of that overhead but evolution does relentlessly cull failed experiments in a way AI can't.  Intelligence is the absence of failure but much failure is needed to produce intelligence in the first place.  Experience and failure of a kind a network can't provide.  A network may be huge and fast but each node perceives things the same way with the same bias.  An oppression of homogeneity would not provide the flexibility that global AI would need to test novel situations and that is what intelligence is really all about.  Intelligence evolved at the species level and involved a lot of death.  It is not acceptable for AI to evolve by failure if people die in failed AI code experiments, but human intelligence evolved in exactly that way.  Mistakes were tested and not simply thrown away.  Mistakes were killed off forcing intelligence to evolve along a very narrow path.  It takes a lot of history and a lot of pain to work out that narrow path.  That which worked was saved and that what did not work so well was killed off.  AI development can't duplicate the pain needed to produce real intelligence by actually interacting with the environment and a simulation can't provide the novelty which the authenticity of consequences that global AI would need to bypass such interaction.

Intelligence on earth is domain specific.  Each creature has different strategies skills and abilities to keep their meat alive.  Only humans have had anything like global intelligence of the kind AI nerds expect to be just around the corner.  To get that far they omit intermediate steps.  Steps which took billions of years by billions and billions of failed experiments to create something which only works in specific environments can be duplicated, yes, but global AI must be able to able to deal with novelty.  A universe of real world experience is needed to give the background to evaluate all the what-ifs of a new situation.  Neural networks can provide a blank slate large enough to do the calculations but hardware can't program itself.  Interaction with the environment must provide the needed experience to shape intelligence in any domain in a correct direction be it the skill to swallow another fish or the skill to pick a banana from a tree, or the skill to put words together in different ways.  AI can't be woven from whole cloth but that is what people expect.

Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on November 03, 2018, 08:36:04 PM
To be fair Mother Nature has only been trying for about 600 million years.  Multi-cellular life being a prerequisite.  A couple of billion years was needed to build the infrastructure for intelligence before experiments could even begin.  Experiments still go on.

What are your thoughts on robotics which involve embodied intelligence, i.e. the robots are programmed with relatively simple codes to perform movements similar to humans and by moving around in the world they actually gain a type of intelligence that cannot come any other way? I'm fascinated by that idea. Also the idea that, if there is actually something to such an embodied intelligence, robots which can communicate any insights from learned patterns of behavior almost instantaneously to millions of other robots, so on and so forth, would essentially evolve over the course of days, hours and minutes.

This idea also intrigued me because it seems the most intelligent animals are the ones which can manipulate their surrounding environments and solve complex problems this way. Dolphins may be intelligent, but the type of intelligence is likely very different from that of an octopus, chimpanzee or a human. I'm not sure if there is anything to that, but it seems somewhat plausible to my lay mind.

The analogy to life's evolution on earth is far from perfect.  Evolution is slow because generations are involved and networked computers can replace much of that overhead but evolution does relentlessly cull failed experiments in a way AI can't.  Intelligence is the absence of failure but much failure is needed to produce intelligence in the first place.  Experience and failure of a kind a network can't provide.  A network may be huge and fast but each node perceives things the same way with the same bias.  An oppression of homogeneity would not provide the flexibility that global AI would need to test novel situations and that is what intelligence is really all about.  Intelligence evolved at the species level and involved a lot of death.  It is not acceptable for AI to evolve by failure if people die in failed AI code experiments, but human intelligence evolved in exactly that way.  Mistakes were tested and not simply thrown away.  Mistakes were killed off forcing intelligence to evolve along a very narrow path.  It takes a lot of history and a lot of pain to work out that narrow path.  That which worked was saved and that what did not work so well was killed off.  AI development can't duplicate the pain needed to produce real intelligence by actually interacting with the environment and a simulation can't provide the novelty which the authenticity of consequences that global AI would need to bypass such interaction.

Intelligence on earth is domain specific.  Each creature has different strategies skills and abilities to keep their meat alive.  Only humans have had anything like global intelligence of the kind AI nerds expect to be just around the corner.  To get that far they omit intermediate steps.  Steps which took billions of years by billions and billions of failed experiments to create something which only works in specific environments can be duplicated, yes, but global AI must be able to able to deal with novelty.  A universe of real world experience is needed to give the background to evaluate all the what-ifs of a new situation.  Neural networks can provide a blank slate large enough to do the calculations but hardware can't program itself.  Interaction with the environment must provide the needed experience to shape intelligence in any domain in a correct direction be it the skill to swallow another fish or the skill to pick a banana from a tree, or the skill to put words together in different ways.  AI can't be woven from whole cloth but that is what people expect.

Part of the issue could be how we are defining intelligence, or what kind of intelligence we are thinking of. There is an abstracted intelligence which seems to be pretty much out of reach for AI. But from a Darwinian perspective, we could think of the type of intelligence that is just intelligent enough to promote survival. This could be an embodied intelligence which primarily relies on imitation. Certainly some of the smartest animals we know of, including humans, have the capacity to learn simply through observing and imitating another creature who has solved a problem.

So would you say that programming embodied AI to imitate is much harder than it sounds? I don't know a thing about programming so I would definitely defer to you on that.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: K-Dog on November 04, 2018, 05:37:31 AM

So would you say that programming embodied AI to imitate is much harder than it sounds? I don't know a thing about programming so I would definitely defer to you on that.

Yes, Lex makes the point that two computers can be programmed to play a game against each other and develop intelligence and skill, but only games can be programmed in this way.  It is because the reality of a game can be simulated 100% but nothing else can.  Simulating anything else only produces an approximation to reality and that is not good enough to develop intelligence which can deal with novelty but that is exactly what intelligence must do.

If we stop and think about what intelligence is, an ability to understand and deal with reality, it becomes obvious that only interacting with reality can produce intelligence.  This is not the same thing as saying AI is impossible at all, but it shows the notion of waking up tomorrow and finding out machines are in control is total crazy.  There can be no singularity, the onion of AI has so many layers that slow progress will be continue to be the nature of the beast as it has been for fifty years.

The truth about intelligence is that there is nothing artificial about it.  Intelligence is real be it produced by a machine or in rare cases by a human.  Regardless it will never and can never be artificial.  Interaction with reality programs intelligence, there is no other way for it to be created and programming to imitate is hard.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on November 04, 2018, 05:44:51 AM
This exchange would make a fine blog article, too. I'm learning a lot. Sure glad to have K-Dog for a no-bullshit source. I can occasionally almost understand what he's trying to communicate to my digitally ignorant ass.

No wonder Americans hold engineers in high regard. We have some damn good ones.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on November 04, 2018, 07:19:05 AM
This exchange would make a fine blog article, too. I'm learning a lot. Sure glad to have K-Dog for a no-bullshit source. I can occasionally almost understand what he's trying to communicate to my digitally ignorant ass.

No wonder Americans hold engineers in high regard. We have some damn good ones.

You should compile it for a blog article.  You need to learn how to do this stuff.  I will not be here forever.

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on November 04, 2018, 07:25:59 AM
Okay. But right now I have to log into pediatric life support and kill a few more babies. Two more lives saved and I'm done, but I'm into the serious heart problems now and every simulation is a code blue for a kid with a pre-existing heart condition.

It's the usual question. Atropine or Epinephrine?

At least now the machines are smart enough to figure out if you need to shock. Defibrillators (the idiot-proof kind) are now required in dental offices. I really need to buy one before somebody arrests and I get in serious trouble.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on November 04, 2018, 07:35:45 AM
Okay. But right now I have to log into pediatric life support and kill a few more babies. Two more lives saved and I'm done, but I'm into the serious heart problems now and every simulation is a code blue for a kid with a pre-existing heart condition.

It's the usual question. Atropine or Epinephrine?

At least now the machines are smart enough to figure out if you need to shock. Defibrillators (the idiot-proof kind) are now required in dental offices. I really need to buy one before somebody arrests and I get in serious trouble.

How much do they cost?  Not as much as a digital X-Ray machine I think.

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on November 04, 2018, 07:38:27 AM
Maybe $1000 now. Not too bad. The most likely life for it to save, based on real probabilities, is my own. So maybe not the worst investment.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on November 04, 2018, 08:35:21 AM
Dammit, lost another one.  I want a cigarette, and I don't even smoke. Losing virtual infants is hard for everyone.

What am I going to tell the virtual parents?  I jacked the algorithm for CPR?

It's God's will.

Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Nearingsfault on November 04, 2018, 08:45:33 AM
My original CPR instructor worked in ambulances in east Vancouver so was used to junkies... his advice was to remember you are starting with a corpse and have at best a 50 50 chance of changing that... I think that was how he stayed sane.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on November 04, 2018, 08:58:02 AM
Here's the deal. I once worked (so long ago it seems like another life) in a small county hospital on the night shift. I often slept, since I was also trying to finish my last year of college.

I've been on many, many code blues, although most of them were adults. My job was to take EKG's and draw blood gasses, often from the femoral arteries of dying drunks in car wrecks or end-stage heart patients.

These computer simulations are much harder than real life. But if you can get them right, you're well on your way to being able to save some lives. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it) my day job reinforces none of this stuff, and so I get to re-learn it every two years until I retire. Probably three more times at least, if I don't participate in my own code blue first.

I was once going to take EMT training myself, but the teacher, a young guy everyone liked, died in a bad ambulance wreck several months before I graduated. My acceptance to dental school made the training moot anyway. But I will never forget that guy, who was married with a baby, and trying to get into medical school.

Karma is hard to understand.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on November 04, 2018, 09:00:00 AM
Dammit, lost another one.  I want a cigarette, and I don't even smoke. Losing virtual infants is hard for everyone.

What am I going to tell the virtual parents?  I jacked the algorithm for CPR?

It's God's will.

Infants are the easiest to lose.  They know nothing.  You lose me when I sit down in your Dental Chair, I know something.  That would be harder I think.

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on November 04, 2018, 09:07:28 AM
Dammit, lost another one.  I want a cigarette, and I don't even smoke. Losing virtual infants is hard for everyone.

What am I going to tell the virtual parents?  I jacked the algorithm for CPR?

It's God's will.

Infants are the easiest to lose.  They know nothing.  You lose me when I sit down in your Dental Chair, I know something.  That would be harder I think.

RE

God's will. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on November 04, 2018, 10:09:59 AM
4th try, I successfully resuscitated this infant and the damn computer STILL failed my ass. I need a fuckin' lifeline call. I'm going to get high and then treat the patient again.

Fuckin' useless eaters.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on November 04, 2018, 11:37:21 AM
4th try, I successfully resuscitated this infant and the damn computer STILL failed my ass. I need a fuckin' lifeline call. I'm going to get high and then treat the patient again.

Fuckin' useless eaters.

Is there an option to eliminate this infant as an unnecessary burden on society?

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on November 04, 2018, 01:44:45 PM
The very last one is eating my lunch. I'm on my nth attempt and it's kickin' my ass.

This kid is really pissing me off.  The AED says no shock but the computer keeps telling me to deliver shocks....and when I do it manually they don't work anyway. I'm surprised I haven't electrocuted most of the code team by now, and this kid smells like bacon.

Got hit in the chest by a baseball. Sorry Dad, why'd you let her stand by the dugout like that? We lost her. Just God's will.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on November 04, 2018, 02:04:01 PM
The very last one is eating my lunch. I'm on my nth attempt and it's kickin' my ass.

This kid is really pissing me off.  The AED says no shock but the computer keeps telling me to deliver shocks....and when I do it manually they don't work anyway. I'm surprised I haven't electrocuted most of the code team by now, and this kid smells like bacon.

Got hit in the chest by a baseball. Sorry Dad, why'd you let her stand by the dugout like that? We lost her. Just God's will.

Another one bites the dust.  Is a heart transplant in the field an option?

Can I sign in and play this game?  Looks like fun!  ;D

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on November 04, 2018, 03:19:49 PM
It's the AHA eLearning site for professionals. I'm not sure if it recognizes my computer or I'm permanently logged in on this computer. I'm only signed up for the one course.....Pediatric Advanced Life Support. I get on directly using a link I was sent that's in a saved email, but I don't mind if you try to log on there using my regular email. You have it. I don't have a password I can find anywhere.

I'm currently killing the last patient left, a 7 year old named Jenna. I've killed her over and over for four hours now. Death no longer affects me much.

https://elearning.heart.org/course/22
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on November 04, 2018, 06:43:46 PM
It's the AHA eLearning site for professionals. I'm not sure if it recognizes my computer or I'm permanently logged in on this computer. I'm only signed up for the one course.....Pediatric Advanced Life Support. I get on directly using a link I was sent that's in a saved email, but I don't mind if you try to log on there using my regular email. You have it. I don't have a password I can find anywhere.

I'm currently killing the last patient left, a 7 year old named Jenna. I've killed her over and over for four hours now. Death no longer affects me much.

https://elearning.heart.org/course/22

I'm a Professional Patient.   ;D  I signed up with my own email.  You must have a password stored in your computer, because the site requires a PW.  However, this particular course/test Heartcode Pediatric Life Support (PALS) costs $132, which you must have forked over at some point.  I'm not curious enough to justify paying $132 myself.  Maybe I can get Medicare to pickup the bill?  :icon_scratch:

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on November 04, 2018, 07:28:42 PM
The next time I want to spend $132 to get the same effect, I'll just pay somebody to smack me up side the head with a 2X4.

I finally finished the cases and took the test, passing it after only four or five tries. I finally figured out they were willing to show you the ones you missed before, but I took it several times before I saw the drop down thingie that made it easier....50 question test. 84% to pass. Once I had a look at the ones I'd been missing, it was a snap. Otherwise it would have been an open book test from hell.

But it's done and I can get the hospital credentialing conduit scheme nazis off my ass. What a waste of a nice day. My family went to the RenFair without me.

Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on November 04, 2018, 08:49:25 PM
The next time I want to spend $132 to get the same effect, I'll just pay somebody to smack me up side the head with a 2X4.

I VOLUNTEER for this job! Maybe I can get you to understand reality at the same time!  Kill two birds with one stone!  :icon_sunny:

I finally finished the cases and took the test, passing it after only four or five tries. I finally figured out they were willing to show you the ones you missed before, but I took it several times before I saw the drop down thingie that made it easier....50 question test. 84% to pass. Once I had a look at the ones I'd been missing, it was a snap. Otherwise it would have been an open book test from hell.

You gotta work to the test protocols.  They always give them in these online exercises, I did them regularly while USAG was credentialing coaches to make sure they weren't Child Molesters.  It didn't work too well in Larry Nasser's case of course.  I however passed this test regularly every 2 years I had to take it.  Total bullshit.  I could have been fucking 9 year olds up the ass every day and passed one of these "tests".

Quote
But it's done and I can get the hospital credentialing conduit scheme nazis off my ass. What a waste of a nice day. My family went to the RenFair without me.

Welcome to my world.  You should see it from the Patient Professional Perspective (PPP) sometime.  It consumes your existence on Earth as long as you are above ground in Industrial Civilization.

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on November 08, 2018, 08:33:41 AM
Bad video quality, but a great discussion about having open and honest dialogues in modern Western technological culture.

A Day of Reckoning - 1 - Sam Harris, Eric Weinstein, Bret Weinstein, Maajid Nawaz, Douglas Murray

http://www.youtube.com/v/tmOwwIsyGY0
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on March 15, 2019, 02:28:28 PM
This is a must see video interview for anyone who is open minded and doubts the existence of a well-established radical left presence in big media, big tech and Hollywood. These are sectors with a lot of power and influence in American culture, as with the academy.

http://www.youtube.com/v/haYnUiXOho4
Title: 👺 BEWARE the "Radical Left" Bogeyman!
Post by: RE on March 15, 2019, 02:38:25 PM
This is a must see video interview for anyone who is open minded and doubts the existence of a well-established radical left presence in big media, big tech and Hollywood. These are sectors with a lot of power and influence in American culture, as with the academy.


(http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Bogeyman-Demotivational.png)

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Surly1 on March 16, 2019, 05:34:32 AM
This is a must see video interview for anyone who is open minded and doubts the existence of a well-established radical left presence in big media, big tech and Hollywood. These are sectors with a lot of power and influence in American culture, as with the academy.

http://www.youtube.com/v/haYnUiXOho4

No, it's not. Rubin, like his shoe scraping advocate here, is a classic “reactionary:" a repackaged defender of the status quo, featuring a general opposition to feminism, social justice, or left-wing politics. Communists in every woodpile. Booga booga! Advocates for Uncle Cracker and the wannabes who love him.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on March 16, 2019, 02:43:29 PM
This is a must see video interview for anyone who is open minded and doubts the existence of a well-established radical left presence in big media, big tech and Hollywood. These are sectors with a lot of power and influence in American culture, as with the academy.

http://www.youtube.com/v/haYnUiXOho4

No, it's not. Rubin, like his shoe scraping advocate here, is a classic “reactionary:" a repackaged defender of the status quo, featuring a general opposition to feminism, social justice, or left-wing politics. Communists in every woodpile. Booga booga! Advocates for Uncle Cracker and the wannabes who love him.

I said for anyone who is open minded, which clearly is not you. Good discussion with evidence like this is wasted on rabid ideologues.

"Give not that which is holy to the dogs, nor cast your pearls before the swine". Indeed.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: azozeo on March 16, 2019, 04:07:53 PM
This is a must see video interview for anyone who is open minded and doubts the existence of a well-established radical left presence in big media, big tech and Hollywood. These are sectors with a lot of power and influence in American culture, as with the academy.

http://www.youtube.com/v/haYnUiXOho4

No, it's not. Rubin, like his shoe scraping advocate here, is a classic “reactionary:" a repackaged defender of the status quo, featuring a general opposition to feminism, social justice, or left-wing politics. Communists in every woodpile. Booga booga! Advocates for Uncle Cracker and the wannabes who love him.

I said for anyone who is open minded, which clearly is not you. Good discussion with evidence like this is wasted on rabid ideologues.

"Give not that which is holy to the dogs, nor cast your pearls before the swine". Indeed.

Surly visits the Far Out Newz wing of this happy haunt way more than your Phoenician bleedin' ass ....

He's open minded  :icon_sunny:
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Surly1 on March 16, 2019, 06:46:03 PM
This is a must see video interview for anyone who is open minded and doubts the existence of a well-established radical left presence in big media, big tech and Hollywood. These are sectors with a lot of power and influence in American culture, as with the academy.

http://www.youtube.com/v/haYnUiXOho4

No, it's not. Rubin, like his shoe scraping advocate here, is a classic “reactionary:" a repackaged defender of the status quo, featuring a general opposition to feminism, social justice, or left-wing politics. Communists in every woodpile. Booga booga! Advocates for Uncle Cracker and the wannabes who love him.

I said for anyone who is open minded, which clearly is not you. Good discussion with evidence like this is wasted on rabid ideologues.

"Give not that which is holy to the dogs, nor cast your pearls before the swine". Indeed.

"Good discussion with evidence like this is wasted on rabid ideologues." The lawyer for Alex Jones, the Covington swine (does that include the kid with the world's most punchable face (making allowances for your own), and Fucker Tiresome? You complain about the so-called "open mindedness" of your antagonists has if you have the merest acquaintance with the concept. Which you have clearly demonstrated in these pages that you do not.

Your "pearls" are so many turds. Some swine will swallow, as you have seen. Those who can read without moving their lips will not.

Sort yourself out, Fucko.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on March 16, 2019, 07:16:23 PM
I said for anyone who is open minded, which clearly is not you. Good discussion with evidence like this is wasted on rabid ideologues.

"Give not that which is holy to the dogs, nor cast your pearls before the swine". Indeed.

As I mentioned, "ideologue" is not an epithet on the Diner.  Everybody's an ideologue, it's nothing special.

Speaking of Closed Minds, yours is double bolted shut and padlocked.

                              Watson's Mind
(https://photos.travelblog.org/Photos/110799/378543/f/3550258-Tiny-cell-door-with-lots-of-locks-0.jpg)

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Surly1 on March 16, 2019, 07:37:02 PM
Let's put this in perspective. In trying to contextualize the oeuvre of Dave Rubin, I came across an article by Ezra Klein who locates him as part of YouTube prophets and avatars, whom we've already seen posted here, who populate the "intellectual dark web," the reactionary right, and benefit from YouTube’s algorithms to build a new right.

YouTube’s recommendation engine follows the digital footsteps we all make. And it sees connections, not context. It knows when audiences repeatedly come together, but cannot grasp not why. And predicts what they’re likely to view next. Thus are the "mainstreams" of conservative thought is brought into proximity to the far right fringe, where Ashvin lives.

As Klein has it, "Many of these YouTubers are less defined by any single ideology than they are by a “reactionary” position: a general opposition to feminism, social justice, or left-wing politics." Even though they are hardly monolithic. On YouTube, tomorrow’s politics are emerging today.

Klein also seems to get Ashvin's intellectual lodestar, Jordan Peterson, correct, and identifies him as a classic reactionary.

Long, but a good read.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/9/24/17883330/dave-rubin-ben-shapiro-youtube-reactionary-right-peterson (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/9/24/17883330/dave-rubin-ben-shapiro-youtube-reactionary-right-peterson)

The rise of YouTube’s reactionary right

How demographic change and YouTube’s algorithms are building a new right.

By Ezra Klein@ezraklein 
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Javier Zarracina/Vox

Last week, I tweeted out a few links to pieces of media analysis I’d found interesting. One was to danah boyd’s excellent speech on media manipulation, strategic amplification, and responsible journalism. Another was to BuzzFeed reporter Charlie Warzel’s newsletter describing how a recognition of the alt-right’s media manipulation techniques had changed his reporting. A third was to Rebecca Lewis’s new Data & Society report mapping the rise and functioning of YouTube’s “reactionary right,” which I described as “one of the must underestimated forces in politics right now.”

It was that third one that attracted some controversy. The Data & Society report is trying to trace the social and algorithmic boundaries of an emergent media ecosystem, but a lot of the folks swept up in the report are angry about it, and angry at me for linking to it. For instance, YouTube personality Dave Rubin tweeted:

Hi , wanna explain to me how gay married, pro choice, pro-pot, against death penalty, for reforming prisons/drug sentencing, is part of reactionary right? (As you and rest of mainstream slide into irrelevancy you did get the “underestimated forces” part right, though.)

I’ll take the bait, because the underlying issue here is important to understanding politics in 2018. We’re in a period of massive demographic and social change, and all that change is creating a powerful backlash. The coalition being built by that backlash, the coalition Rubin is a part of, is best understood as a reactionary movement because, well, that’s what it is — a movement united by opposition to changes it loathes.

Reactionary, in this context, isn’t a slur; it’s a lineage, and it has a specific meaning that’s useful in understanding this group. And whether you support legal pot has nothing to do with it.

The intellectual dark web, the reactionary right, and the difficult work of mapping new ideologies

Let’s start in familiar territory.

In the context of American politics, I’m on the left. That’s also true for my colleague Matt Yglesias, who has extremely similar views to me on taxation and health care but extremely different views on veganism, which is an important political commitment to me but not to him. Stranger yet, it’s also true for the hosts of Chapo Trap House, a left-wing podcast that loathes me even though our substantive differences would look modest to a libertarian. And it’s arguably true for all kinds of lefty fringe types whose views I’d find abhorrent (anti-vaxxers, say).

If someone wrote a report trying to map the modern left, you’d quickly come up with a list that connects me to people I like but disagree with on some issues, people I dislike, people who dislike me, and people whom I don’t even think of as in my universe.

Which is all to say that mapping broad ideologies is an odd and imprecise business, and it’s particularly odd to the people caught up in it, who experience the fractiousness of their side at least as much as they experience its cohesion.

Lewis’s report is trying to map the emergence of a new coalition on the right, one driven by a reactionary impulse and centered on YouTube. If you’re over 30 and don’t use YouTube much, it’s almost impossible to convey how central the platform is to young people. But spend much time talking to college students about where they get their political information and you’ll find YouTube is dominant; what’s happening on the platform is important to our political future, and badly undercovered.

Lewis is interested in how this ecosystem is being shaped by both social and algorithmic dynamics. The social side is familiar: Hosts appears on each other’s shows, do events together, and cross-pollinate their audiences. The algorithmic side is less familiar: YouTube’s powerful recommendation engine learns who’s connected to whom, adds in a preference for extreme and outlandish content, and thus pushes the entire ecosystem in a more radical direction. (Controversially, Lewis suggests YouTube should cut the most extreme of these shows off from monetization channels; this part of the report is the least detailed and, in my view, the least convincing, so I’m not going to spend time on it here.)

Mapping this network carries the consequence of connecting people to voices they’d rather not be connected to — Ben Shapiro, a mainstream conservative, is angry at his inclusion. The shows he regularly appears on also host much more fringe figures, and this puts him a couple degrees out from white supremacists on Lewis’s map. But this is part of Lewis’s point: This world, in a way that’s unusual, has extremely porous borders between the mainstream and the extreme, and that’s a consequence of both ideological intention and algorithmic design.

One way to understand the Data & Society report is to see it as another cut at what Bari Weiss described in the New York Times (again naming Rubin and Shapiro, though omitting a lot of the more extreme figures identified by Lewis) as the “intellectual dark web.”Weiss’s piece described something real and important, but it had trouble defining their ideology, in large part because it was overly credulous. Here, for instance, is her explanation of what unites this community:

They all share three distinct qualities. First, they are willing to disagree ferociously, but talk civilly, about nearly every meaningful subject: religion, abortion, immigration, the nature of consciousness. Second, in an age in which popular feelings about the way things ought to be often override facts about the way things actually are, each is determined to resist parroting what’s politically convenient. And third, some have paid for this commitment by being purged from institutions that have become increasingly hostile to unorthodox thought — and have found receptive audiences elsewhere.

This is definitely what the members of this community say about themselves. But spend some time listening to Rubin call progressivism “a mental disorder,” or emailing with Sam Harris — a New Atheist author and podcaster in this community — and you find the commitment to civility or even debate is pretty thin. Similarly, this movement’s vaunted commitment to free speech looks a bit shallow after you receive a letter from Jordan Peterson threatening a lawsuit because you ran an interview with a scholar who criticized him. And, of course, everycommunity believes they’re the ones who prize facts over feelings.

But if Weiss was fuzzy on what ties her subjects together, she did have a criticism of them, and it’s one that’s relevant to Lewis’s report: She worried that members of the IDW repeatedly provide platforms to “genuinely bad people” — listen to these shows, she warned, and “you’ll find alt-right figures like Stefan Molyneux and Milo Yiannopoulos and conspiracy theorists like Mike Cernovich (the #PizzaGate huckster) and Alex Jones (the Sandy Hook shooting denier).”

Lewis’s piece is best understood as the inverse of Weiss’s piece. Where Weiss drew a circle around the most respectable subgroup of this world, used their preferred term for themselves, and worried over the unsavory characters they were associating with, Lewis sees a broader “reactionary right” that includes the IDWers but also “the genuinely bad people” they’re connected to. (For the record, I think her report would’ve benefited from further breaking this world into typologies; you can see one cut at that here.)

There is, as advertised, a lot of different kinds of thinkers and a lot of very real disagreement in this emergent coalition; the question, as in any ideological group, is what unites them, what gives them the common ground atop which they have conversations and build audiences. This is Lewis’s key paragraph, emphasis mine:

The boundaries between different political groups of influencers and the ideological positions they promote are often slippery. Many identify themselves primarily as libertarians or conservatives. Others self-advertise as white nationalists. Simultaneously, these influencers often connect with one another across ideological lines. At times, influencers collaborate to the point that ideological differences become impossible to take at face value. For example, self-identified conservatives may disavow far-right extremism while also hosting explicit white nationalists on their channels. Within the [network], this collaboration generates a cross-promotion of ideas that forms a broader, intertextual common ground. Many of these YouTubers are less defined by any single ideology than they are by a “reactionary” position: a general opposition to feminism, social justice, or left-wing politics.

Lewis’s argument, which I agree with, is that the core, unshakable agreement uniting the reactionary right is their intense loathing of “the social justice left,” of political correctness, of threats to free speech as they define it.

Ideological coalitions depend on the agreements you emphasize and the disagreements you live with. Sen. Elizabeth Warren supports single-payer health care and Sen. Mark Warner doesn’t, but they’re still both Democrats. If Warner were anti-abortion, had signed Grover Norquist’s tax pledge, and had endorsed Donald Trump, he’d be out of the party. When you’re trying to understand an ideological coalition, you’re looking for those lines.

If you spend much time listening to the reactionary right, you find that line cuts across social justice issues. You can hold a lot of different opinions on the economy, on Trump, on same-sex marriage, on atheism, and still be part of this community. It’s much more accepting of differing views on health care, the role of the state, and taxation than the modern Republican Party. But you can’t be in sympathy with the SJWs.

On the left, the reverse is increasingly true. The unbridgeable divides today, the ones that seem to define which side you’re really on, revolve around issues of race, gender, identity, and equality. While I see a lot of angry arguments about deficits within the Democratic coalition, I don’t know of any congressional Democrats who are against same-sex marriage, vocally skeptical of Black Lives Matter, and in favor of tight restrictions on immigration — even though those were common positions among elected Democrats in the aughts.

Trump is also a manifestation of this shift. In 2012, the Republican Party wanted to compromise on culture and immigration to win on economics; Trump dominated the primary by insisting on the opposite formulation. He cares little about entitlement spending but deeply about NFL players kneeling during the national anthem.

Back in April, I interviewed Lilliana Mason, a political scientist who specializes in identity formation. “Our party divisions have always been moving,” she said. “Sometimes we fight over economics, sometimes we fight over culture, but the line is always moving.” And right now, she continued, “there could be a real new partisan cleavage we are trying to organize around.” Perhaps, she suggested, the next political cleavage “is a social justice cleavage.”

I think she’s right, and one place you see it is on YouTube, where tomorrow’s politics are emerging today.

Reactionary movements, then and now

This brings us to Rubin’s challenge: How can he, or anyone, support same-sex marriage and legal pot and be described as a member of the reactionary right? Rubin is libertarian-ish, and certainly not an establishment Republican, so how could Lewis group him, and others like him, under this label?

Behind Rubin’s complaint is a common misunderstanding of what reactionary movements are. In his book The Reactionary Mind, the political theorist Corey Robin writes:

Far from yielding a knee-jerk defense of an unchanging old regime or a thoughtful traditionalism, the reactionary imperative presses conservatism in two rather different directions: first, to a critique and reconfiguration of the old regime; and second, to an absorption of the ideas and tactics of the very revolution or reform it opposes. What conservatism seeks to accomplish through that reconfiguration of the old and absorption of the new is to make privilege popular, to transform a tottering old regime into a dynamic, ideologically coherent movement of the masses.

Put differently, reactionary movements have two parts: The first is an extraction of the important, and now imperiled, power structures in the status quo, even as a lot of the ideological baggage that has endangered the status quo is jettisoned. The second is a recasting of a movement that is about defending an existing social order into a movement that appears revolutionary and vibrant on its own terms.

The YouTube right has all these hallmarks. It brands itself as edgy, punkish, dangerous, free-thinking. You get a lot of stuff like this:

These new voices aren’t like those stodgy Bush-era Republicans. They smoke weed! They take psychedelics! They support same-sex marriage! As Lewis writes:

These influencers are adopting identity signals affiliated with previous countercultures, but the actual content of their arguments seeks to reinforce dominant cultural racial and gendered hierarchies. Their reactionary politics and connections to traditional modes of power show that what they are most often fighting for is actually the status quo—a return to traditional gender and racial norms, or a belief in the individual over an understanding of group oppression.

Watch Rubin’s softball interview with Milo about his dislike for feminism to see this in action. The aesthetics of the discussion are edgy and interesting; the content of it is a banal defense of societal structures that leave women paid far less than men; you could hear it made with more detail and rigor at any right-wing think tank in Washington:

Jordan Peterson is probably this movement’s leading intellectual; he’s one of Rubin’s most frequent guests, and he has Rubin open for him on his speaking tours. There is much that makes Peterson’s thinking interesting and unusual. He’s a psychologist who’s turned Jungian interpretation of mythic archetypes into an idiosyncratic self-help philosophy for a secular age. But when it comes to politics, he’s recasting a defense of traditional hierarchies and inequalities as a brave stand for free thinking and individual rights.

Peterson fears that gender and racial equity movements will go too far in challenging the natural order of things and destroy what made Western civilization great. What the world needs is intellectual rebels willing to shatter the social justice consensus, stare down the PC police, and say what no one else will:

You can love Peterson’s work or hate it, but it’s classic reactionary thinking.

Reactionary movements emerge most powerfully in periods of change and upheaval. As Robin writes:

Conservatism “becomes conscious and reflective when other ways of life and thought appear on the scene, against which it is compelled to take up arms in the ideological struggle.” Where the traditionalist can take the objects of desire for granted—he can enjoy them as if they are at hand because they are at hand—the conservative cannot. He seeks to enjoy them precisely as they are being—or have been—taken away. If he hopes to enjoy them again, he must contest their divestment in the public realm.

So why is this tendency emergent now? What is it reacting to?

My long answer to this question is to go read “White threat in a browning America.” The short version is we’re in a period of massive demographic and social change. The power structures really are in flux. We just had a black president and now we have a white backlash president, the #MeToo movement is transforming workplaces, college campuses are majority female, and most infants under 3 are nonwhite, to name just a few of the ongoing revolutions. This is a lot of change, all at once.

The PC wars are downstream from these upheavals. As marginalized groups gain power, they make claims. They want resources they were denied, positions they’ve been excluded from, social mores that make them comfortable, a discourse that represents them, a recognition of the ways in which society has been built atop an unjust foundation. Some of this is easy enough for society to grant, but much of it threatens the majority’s status, power, resources, or simply its sense of security. Action like this creates, well, reaction — and reactionary movements.

Politics in the age of algorithms

If all Lewis’s report had done was outline some commonalities between the sprawling network of right-leaning YouTube hosts, that would have been interesting, but it wouldn’t have attracted much notice. But the core of her paper is about how this new ideology is shaping, and being shaped, by the social media platforms it operates on.

Lewis’s interest in Rubin, for instance, is in the way his show acts as a node between the most respectable side of the YouTube right (Shapiro) and its more fringe elements (Stefan Molyneux). And then, as Rubin’s audience is exposed to Molyneux, they get to the even more extreme figures Molyneux features on his show. The paper is full of node maps showing the connections between various hosts and the paths by which someone who begins in a relatively mainstream place can quickly get carried into deep depths of misogyny and racism.

It’s worth being careful with these diagrams. For instance, W. Kamau Bell has interviewed Richard Spencer, and I’ve interviewed W. Kamau Bell, so I can also be framed as two degrees from Richard Spencer. You need more context than a node map. What Lewis establishes in detail in the report, however, is a cooperative ecosystem in which key players act as conveyors from the mainstream right to the extreme right by conducting credulous, friendly interviews with both. Rubin is one of them.

Rubin protests, reasonably, that he hosts a talk show, and he doesn’t endorse all the views aired on it. But Lewis isn’t saying that Rubin agrees with everyone who appears on his show. She’s saying that he’s part of a social and algorithmic network in which he’s cross-pollinating audiences both intentionally, in terms of whom he has on and what shows he goes on, and unintentionally, in terms of what the algorithm learns to show his followers. And it’s not just him: there’s a whole ecosystem of people alongside him doing the same thing.

A key question as movements develop is who gets excluded. William F. Buckley famously fought to drive the John Birch Society out of polite conservatism. But this is a community that delights in pushing boundaries, in presenting itself as the last place you can hear the views that the PC police are stifling, if only so you can reject them for yourself. That leads to them proudly hosting fringe and extreme voices both because it fits their ideological self-conception and because it’s good programming.

YouTube’s recommendation engine, meanwhile, is following all these digital footsteps. It sees connections, not context. It knows when audiences repeatedly come together, not why they come together. And it guesses what they’re likely to click on next.

The digital scholar Zeynep Tufekci has written about YouTube’s role as an engine of radicalization. She retells watching Donald Trump videos and then being pointed toward “white supremacist rants, Holocaust denials and other disturbing content.” Watching Hillary Clinton rallies led her to “arguments about the existence of secret government agencies and allegations that the United States government was behind the attacks of Sept. 11.” Even nonpolitical topics followed the pattern: “Videos about vegetarianism led to videos about veganism. Videos about jogging led to videos about running ultramarathons.”

Extremism is interesting. That’s part of the YouTube right’s programming strategy and it’s part of YouTube’s algorithmic strategy. But whether anyone intends it to or not, this mixture of social, political, and algorithmic preferences for extremism means that a 17-year-old kid who begins watching videos on the YouTube right can get drawn into very dark places very fast.

Ideological coalitions are strange things, and all the more so when they’re young and untested. They’re not really under anyone’s control. They often end up grouping together people who don’t much like each other. The boundaries of a movement aren’t just defined by who leads it, but who its followers believe belongs in it, and who they’re guided towards once they make contact with it. Making it yet more complex, this is arguably the first time we’ve seen a distinctive ideological coalition emerging atop social media platforms and under the influence of social media algorithms.

My guess is that there are dynamics on the reactionary right that will crack under different political structures. A normal Republican in the White House would likely split off some of the more mainstream conservatives from some of the more anti-establishment nodes, while a mainstream Democrat might strengthen these ties. But the new reactionary right is bigger than people realize and is only going to become more important in the future. Efforts to map it, and understand it — in terms of both how it understands itself and what it prefers not to understand about itself — are necessary, even if they’re imperfect.

Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on March 16, 2019, 07:59:16 PM
As Klein has it, "Many of these YouTubers are less defined by any single ideology than they are by a “reactionary” position: a general opposition to feminism, social justice, or left-wing politics." Even though they are hardly monolithic. On YouTube, tomorrow’s politics are emerging today.

Klein also seems to get Ashvin's intellectual lodestar, Jordan Peterson, correct, and identifies him as a classic reactionary.

Nice find.  :emthup:

RE
Title: The Intellectual Dark Web rides the Hershey Hiway
Post by: K-Dog on March 17, 2019, 07:43:15 AM
Algorithms, as if ze radical left were innocent.

(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/52001102_2346345048717542_7950133100829212672_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=4fd650f31f522e2f857c9b07aeda703f&oe=5D4E4ADF)

The idea Feuilles and his fellow activists are pursuing is emerging in other locales as well, particularly as Drag Queen Storytime events, endorsed by the American Library Association, increase in popularity. A similar scene played out in a Detroit suburb in January, and in Anchorage, the Queen’s Guard plans on being at all future Drag Storytime events as well as other LGBT happenings around the state.

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2019/02/26/anchorage-activists-form-queens-guard-protect-lgbt-events. (https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2019/02/26/anchorage-activists-form-queens-guard-protect-lgbt-events.)

Tolerance morphed into intolerance a long ago now.  Now you are either an LGBT NAZI or a hater of them.  No other choice.

Somewhere in the not so far future.  I feel a dystopian novel coming on.  I can't help it.

(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/07/22/article-2017721-0D1DEF0400000578-126_634x375.jpg)

Chapter One:

It had been a long day of traveling when the rollers finally reached the Neverlandia Border Crossing.  A guard dressed only in Village People police hat and black leather belt with one of those nutsackey leather pouchey thingies approached.  Attire far to scanty for the early March air. 

Bending over to be more at the eye level of our weary travelers so that he could more professionally asses their reactions, the guard moved his butt cheeks together in a quick shuffle as if a pet pony were right behind him ready to go.  With tippie-toes tingling in delight he said:

"Welcome to Neverlandia sweeties.  Do you all suck cock?  Only people who suck cock can come in here."

The guard stood back eyeing them closely knowing that stepping back would cause them all to posture revealing micro-reactions.

"Reaganville is just a few miles ahead if you're not family.

Noticing the quick involuntary tightening of postures he saw that these cracker asses had best keep rolling or they would be getting a load of butthurt from him before they would pass his gatepole.

Yabba Dabba Do Honey



Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: K-Dog on March 17, 2019, 08:04:31 AM
(https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/styles/splc_page_banner/public/hw_david-grisham-encounters-queens-guards-in-anchorage2_022119.jpg?itok=aY97_Rlm)

Look close, the 'sythe' our mystery man in Anchorage is holding is on an aluminum pole.  If you throw coins will he put his tongue on it?  Probably not.  It would take folding green for him to do that.  It is AK cold and it costs to live there.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on March 17, 2019, 08:25:28 AM
It is AK cold and it costs to live there.

It's quite toasty here actually, 40F at the moment.  The real wicked cold days are pretty much over by now, and we didn't have too many this year.  I think only about a half dozen that went below 0F.

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: K-Dog on March 17, 2019, 11:12:28 AM
It is AK cold and it costs to live there.

It's quite toasty here actually, 40F at the moment.  The real wicked cold days are pretty much over by now, and we didn't have too many this year.  I think only about a half dozen that went below 0F.

RE

He still would not put his tongue on the pole for less than a buck.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on March 17, 2019, 12:52:53 PM
Many of these YouTubers are less defined by any single ideology than they are by a “reactionary” position: a general opposition to feminism, social justice, or left-wing politics.

I would call it reactionary, but not in exactly the way that author means....it is reactionary to certain memes that have been peddled in this country by a variety of sources. They include:

Diversity always makes our culture better.

People from groups that somehow might claim to have a history of having been persecuted are entitled to special consideration with regards to jobs, schools, and other opportunities that can be controlled by legislating special "rights" for those who fit into one of the defined groups.

White males are a group of oppressors who, through having seized control of the power structure somehow, manage to keep the special groups down by paying them less, taking the plum jobs and generally getting the best of everything, through some nebulous process known as "white privilege.

The reason the "reactionary you-tubers" (who aren't all that right-wing, btw) get an audience, is because it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out there's an agenda and a false narrative working in a legacy media that wants to paint itself as working for true social justice. Real social justice  and its pursuit has not been the direction we've been headed in for quite some time. The David Rubins of the utube world have a message that resonates with those who aren't beneficiaries of our brave new socially engineered mores and therefore see it as the bullshit much of it happens to be.

I love the way people instantly slap a label on those who say things they don't agree with. Reactionary right.....uh, not really. Not so much.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on March 17, 2019, 02:27:14 PM
I love the way people instantly slap a label on those who say things they don't agree with. Reactionary right.....uh, not really. Not so much.

It provides some balance to the endless Bogeyman pitch from Watson about the "Radical Left" taking over the FSoA.  It is beyond ridiculous.  Who has Da Goobermint in their pocket?  The Koch Brothers.  Are the Koch's closer to "Radical Left"or "Reactionary Right"?  I rest my case.

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Surly1 on March 18, 2019, 04:20:58 AM
Many of these YouTubers are less defined by any single ideology than they are by a “reactionary” position: a general opposition to feminism, social justice, or left-wing politics.

I would call it reactionary, but not in exactly the way that author means....it is reactionary to certain memes that have been peddled in this country by a variety of sources. They include:

Diversity always makes our culture better.

People from groups that somehow might claim to have a history of having been persecuted are entitled to special consideration with regards to jobs, schools, and other opportunities that can be controlled by legislating special "rights" for those who fit into one of the defined groups.

White males are a group of oppressors who, through having seized control of the power structure somehow, manage to keep the special groups down by paying them less, taking the plum jobs and generally getting the best of everything, through some nebulous process known as "white privilege.

I love the way people instantly slap a label on those who say things they don't agree with. Reactionary right.....uh, not really. Not so much.

"Reactionary" means the same thing  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactionary)it meant when I learned it in sixth grade:

Quote
In political science, a reactionary is a person who holds political views that favor a return to the status quo ante, the previous political state of society, which they believe possessed characteristics (economic prosperity, justice, individual ownership, discipline, respect for authority, etc.) that are negatively absent from the contemporary status quo of a society.

QED.

The term comes out of the French revolution and means essentially, those who want to put things back the way they were before X fucked it up.
If the shoe fits...

"Reactionary right" is thus a redundancy.

Also from Wikipedia:

Quote

In the 19th century, reactionary denoted people who idealized feudalism and the pre-modern era—before the Industrial Revolution and the French Revolution—when economies were mostly agrarian, a landed aristocracy dominated society, a hereditary king ruled and the Roman Catholic Church was society's moral centre. Those labelled as "reactionary" favoured the aristocracy instead of the middle class and the working class. Reactionaries opposed democracyand parliamentarism.


Then as now.

As for this trope:

Quote from: Eddie
...certain memes that have been peddled in this country by a variety of sources. They include: Diversity always makes our culture better.

Unfortunately for your argument, I am old enough to remember this:

(https://www.greatseal.com/mottoes/UnumMasiSkippet.jpg)

Although as purposed it alludes to the union between the states and federal government, as a national motto it also reflect the "melting pot" concept taught to the children and grandchildren of immigrants own the public schools (back before we criminalized such ideas.)

(https://imgc.artprintimages.com/img/print/golden-rule-do-unto-others-april-1-1961_u-l-pc6wnz0.jpg?h=550&w=550)
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on March 18, 2019, 06:58:50 AM
I just got back from NYC where billboards throughout the city proudly display the faces of women...the purpose?  To laud the accomplishments of "women of color" in the fields of science, technology, and medicine. A celebratory message to make non-white women proud of the fact that they can document actual cases of members of their group who achieved something worthwhile.

If I paid for a similar billboard lauding the accomplishments of some random Anglos or Asians or Jewish males  who made a contribution.... that sign would absolutely be defaced and destroyed in short order, never mind that most people would think it was dumb anyway. Everybody knows those groups crank out lots of scientists.

But we should laud brown-skinned female scientists, because....why? Maybe because they're as rare as unicorns? No...the meme is aimed at young black women, telling them "you can do anything a white man can do"...

In the subway I saw a poster ad by some university showing a well-dressed young black man standing at a blackboard writing equations like the kid in Good Will Hunting......(except that kid was white)..... the obvious message being that they couldn't wait to enroll black students and turn them into rocket scientists.

I visited the Tenement Museum on the lower east side. While I waited for my tour to begin, I got to sit in their projection room and watch a movie that consisted completely of fresh, young persons of color, Asian Americans, Indian Americans....every color of the rainbow (except white) speaking English with perfect diction, telling about sharing their stories about their immigrant parents and grandparents....the overriding message being that people are more alike than different, that immigration is great, and that we should all just learn to get along.

Meanwhile, out on the street, the real evidence was totally the opposite. Jews who live down near Times Square very obviously pissed off at real and faux Irish stumbling around drunk after the St. Patrick's day parade.  Groups of well dressed ethnic Chinese girls of school age on the streets in Queens traveling in packs and conversing in rapid-fire Mandarin. Muslim Uber drivers with their ear buds in, trying to ignore even a thank you from an old white guy like me. Filipinos and Tibetans jammed into their own little enclaves in Woodside where my kids live.

In a tony French restaurant I asked if NYC had medical MJ yet,  and my waiter explained that it had been delayed because NY's powers-that-be realized there was discrimination in the way the dispensary licences were being handed out. Not enough "persons of color" (her term, not mine) had managed to meet the requirements,,,because too many of them had a criminal record...so the program was being revamped to correct that injustice. I didn't solicit that story at all.

It's just everywhere, staring you in the face.

Explain to me me one more time WTF any of that silliness makes the least bit of CFS? And why young people of Anglo-European ancestry should open their arms to other races who happen to be themselves extremely racist and insular? And who demand special treatment because they're a minority group?

Tell me that these memes of social justice and political correctness aren't part of the program of the elites, carefully being pushed in schools and on television and in print media.

No wonder utube content providers who are calling bullshit have a lot of subscibers,

If you don't see this going on, you're being willfully ignorant. Go stick your head back in the sand. Your a fucking ostrich.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on March 18, 2019, 07:06:22 AM

If I paid for a similar billboard lauding the accomplishments of some random Anglos or Asians or Jewish males  who made a contribution.... that sign would absolutely be defaced and destroyed in short order, never mind that most people would think it was dumb anyway.

I've never seen a bllboard of Einstein defaced, and he was both White & Jewish.

(https://iheartintelligence.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/genius-quotes-albert-einstein.jpg)

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on March 18, 2019, 07:27:42 AM
Well, then QED. I must be making it all up.

It's all in my reactionary right wing mind.....except I'm not making it up, I have a perfectly valid point, and Einstein is a very special case, which you do understand. Good try at muddying the waters, but no cigar.

They wouldn't deface a billboard of JFK either. Even old Jews like JFK, even though he was as Irish as it gets...but he's not the Irish guy in Woodside watching rugby on TV being broadcast in Gaelic...and there are Irish people in NYC in Irish pubs (lots of them) doing just that.

You know I'm right, and so does Surly. But go on lying to yourself and others. This isn't Pinnochio, and your nose won't grow. You'll just be perpetuating a false narrative like a lot of other liars with an agenda.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on March 18, 2019, 07:39:45 AM
You know I'm right, and so does Surly

No, I don't know you're right correct.  ;D

It really seems to bug you that brown people want some recognition for their accomplishments.  This follows along from your hatred of the "special treatment" you feel they get from programs like Affirmative Action and bullshit jobs doing political nonsense for various Universities.

To me, this is a fucking non-issue and I can't fathom why you get so bent out of shape over it?   :icon_scratch:  However, any time anything comes up about the SJWs, you just gotta drop in and put up yet another video from Jordan Peterson.  It's just irrelevant nonsense.

Now, the article I put up early this morning on the move to a Cashless Society, THAT is significant and worth talking about, but nothing from you on that one.  No commentary on my Collapse Wake-Up Call Aviation Special either.  Your eye is not on the ball, it's on all the distractions.

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on March 18, 2019, 08:08:16 AM
You know I'm right, and so does Surly

No, I don't know you're right correct.  ;D

It really seems to bug you that brown people want some recognition for their accomplishments.  This follows along from your hatred of the "special treatment" you feel they get from programs like Affirmative Action and bullshit jobs doing political nonsense for various Universities.

To me, this is a fucking non-issue and I can't fathom why you get so bent out of shape over it?   :icon_scratch:  However, any time anything comes up about the SJWs, you just gotta drop in and put up yet another video from Jordan Peterson.  It's just irrelevant nonsense.

Now, the article I put up early this morning on the move to a Cashless Society, THAT is significant and worth talking about, but nothing from you on that one.  No commentary on my Collapse Wake-Up Call Aviation Special either.  Your eye is not on the ball, it's on all the distractions.

RE

Your eye is not on the  ball. What I'm talking about is pure Bernays, and obvious to even the casual observer of the way our American mores are being shaped by deliberate programming. It matters because programming works, and most people are doing one of two things.....buying into the false narrative, or rebelling against it.

Surly's campaign to discredit Ashvin, and your participation, puts you on the side of the programmers, which is definitely NOT my side. Merely by pointing this out, both Ashvin and and myself are getting smeared...but more importantly, you are lending your support to some ideas that need to be questioned and called out for what they are.

Our political system has broken down. Your side, the liberal side, has splintered and left a dangerous power vacuum that has been filled by our own little Mussolini, Mr. Trump. The things I'm discussing are what have led to the splintering. By veering either further from reality, the so-called progressives have opened the door to real dictatorial totalitarianism, which (in spite of those who say otherwise) we have not quite succumbed to yet.

Me saying that doesn't make me a right wing reactionary. It makes me a realist. But I get called a racist....just like you call Kunstler a racist when he says the exact same things I do.

By studying cryptos, I've left you far behind in terms of understanding the future of money. I'm consumed by the topic and I have a lot of questions that I am trying to answer for myself. I checked in to the Diner a number of times while I was out of town, and I didn't see your new stuff. I mostly saw the usual AG and Knarf  "how to save the world" cut and paste, which doesn't interest me much anymore, as it never changes, and almost always misses the bigger picture.

I'll read your take on the coming cashless society, and try to make a cogent comment. How about that? I have my own take on aviation, having just experienced one of the worst travels days of my life last Wednesday, on which I lost it and got into a screaming match with two completely incompetent affirmative-action hires who work for United....in Houston, which is a model of our new diverse racial melting pot society that ignores merit and worships entitlement.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on March 18, 2019, 08:17:33 AM
I'll read your take on the coming cashless society, and try to make a cogent comment. How about that? I have my own take on aviation, having just experienced one of the worst travels days of my life last Wednesday, on which I lost it and got into a screaming match with two completely incompetent affirmative-action hires who work for United....in Houston, which is a model of our new diverse racial melting pot society that ignores merit and worships entitlement.

Not my article.  A copy/paste from Don Quijones.

We all have our own takes on everything.  That doesn't mean you don't listen to somebody else's take.

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on March 18, 2019, 08:28:49 AM
I'll read your take on the coming cashless society, and try to make a cogent comment. How about that? I have my own take on aviation, having just experienced one of the worst travels days of my life last Wednesday, on which I lost it and got into a screaming match with two completely incompetent affirmative-action hires who work for United....in Houston, which is a model of our new diverse racial melting pot society that ignores merit and worships entitlement.

Not my article.  A copy/paste from Don Quijones.

We all have our own takes on everything.  That doesn't mean you don't listen to somebody else's take.

RE


Apparently it does around here if that take questions the perfection of socialist ideals. Because anything that does gets flamed, not discussed.

It just makes me not want to contribute here anymore. If what I write is a contribution anyway. I'm not sure why I even bother, other than it pisses me off to see sheep shit being sold as bean dip.

Don Quijones is a gold-loving libertarian death-of-the-dollar guy. I've read enough of his shit to last me a fucking lifetime. But hey, why not? I'll take a peek.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on March 18, 2019, 09:31:21 AM

Apparently it does around here if that take questions the perfection of socialist ideals. Because anything that does gets flamed, not discussed.

It just makes me not want to contribute here anymore. If what I write is a contribution anyway. I'm not sure why I even bother, other than it pisses me off to see sheep shit being sold as bean dip.

This is a recurring theme with you lately.  How discussion is so terible on the Diner you don't want to contribute here anymore.

As I see it, you simply can't deal with the fact numerous Diners (not just me & Surly) don't find your observations to be correct.  You're going to get an argument from SOMEBODY on almost anything you write, because with the exception of Watson you don't have a lot of backup, you're fighting a solo battle.  Nobody knows this problem better than me, how do you think it was to be the only Communist on Karl Denninger's site?  lol.  OK, not the only one, that's where Peter and I became friends.

As I said before, if you want to chat with Bobble Heads who will agree with everything that comes off your keyboard, there's plenty of sites besides just TBP that spin that way.  Here on the Diner, you're bound to get an argument.  That's how it goes on the Diner.  Eveybody Knows.

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on March 18, 2019, 10:02:46 AM
Hell yeah it's a recurring theme. It will be a recurring theme from now until hell freezes over, or until you and Surly both recognize that you don't have a permanent lease on the moral high ground, and that people whose POV is somewhat different than yours deserve a respectful listen, as opposed to plastering a bunch of the very kind of PC reeking cut-and paste BS that is exactly what I for one, am complaining about.

Quit trying to change the fucking subject and obfuscate my very clear message. I have a point of view. It is the POV of an observer, someone who is not afraid to point out the lies of both the left and the right, You guys are commies. To both of you, my non-aligned POV becomes a target and you want to paint me as an extreme righty, which is laughable. I have voted against the right in every election since I could vote, So that dog won't hunt.

What I am is a critic of a failed liberal paradigm, among other things. Get that or we keep arguing until one of us dies or gets really bored with it. I'm already bored with it, but I'm way too stubborn to be run over by people who are clearly very biased, and who don't fight fairly.

Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on March 18, 2019, 10:16:41 AM
as opposed to plastering a bunch of the very kind of PC reeking cut-and paste BS that is exactly what I for one, am complaining about.

Calling me a "cut & paste" artist is preposterous.  I write mostly original stuff..  I only copy/paste a few articles each morning to provide fodder for discussion.  I write detailed and lengthy blog articles analyzing a variety of Collapse topics, and now I write, produce and direct myself on Videos to reach more people.  HTF do you pull out of that I am a cut & paste artist?  ???  :icon_scratch:

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on March 18, 2019, 10:46:20 AM
The MO is as follows.

Ashvin (usually) but sometimes me posts a video that is intended to create an opportunity for an intelligent dialog.

Surly (or you, but more often Surly) does not respond to the video with any real attempt to discuss ideas like maybe addressing some point he disagrees with, but instead goes ad hom on Ashvin (and me since I quit just watching and started complaining)...and instead posts some video by a PC mouthpiece who also generally attacks the messenger.

The usual way it goes is the "guilt by association" tactic that tries to forget the argument and just accuse the original content provider as being aligned with the alt right...and there are other questionable tactics.

You're lazier than Surly. so you also like to just post quickly concocted memes that mock Ashvin's complaints about you.

Everybody's mind is made up, so dialog is impossible. So life goes on, and...it happens again, until you get pissed enough to ban Ashvin or stop talking to me for a while.

It happens over and over. The truth is that I'm not Ashvin and I am undoubtedly to the left of him in my POV...but it doesn't even matter. Meanwhile the local Diner socialists AG and Knarf have carte blanche to post any silly bit of socialist crap they can find anywhere, talking about how great AOC is and how the world is about to change. And it is....but not exactly in the way they hope, unfortunately.

I've made my 100% original POV with absolutely no cut-and-paste and free of soy and filler..... very clear, although I no longer kiss any ass, and I'm happy to tell anybody who wants to fuck with me exactly where to get off, including you. 

More? Or are you clear now?

I'm not GO. I am your intellectual equal and Surly's intellectual equal. I can argue the points and I can call out the bullshit. If you want to argue on the points, let us begin to have a dialog. If you want to hose me with a stream of shit, expect some shit back from me. That's how it's gonna work.

Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on March 18, 2019, 11:03:05 AM


More? Or are you clear now?


Perfectly clear.  You reap what you sow.  I can't count the number of my articles, audio and video you haven't responded to, or the number of vids from other people you don't watch either.

I made it clear I am not interested in Jordan Peterson, his viewpoint is completely predictable, it is a mirror of your own.  You can represent this POV just fine, you don't need a self-important blowhard to do it for you.

Far as Watson is concerned, he gets what he deserves.  Really, I have been nicer and more forgiving of this asshole than about any other site owner would be.

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on March 18, 2019, 01:22:15 PM
I once believed the "Alien autopsy" video was "REAL".  :spacecraft:

AZ still does.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: azozeo on March 18, 2019, 01:59:58 PM
I once believed the "Alien autopsy" video was "REAL".  :spacecraft:

AZ still does.


and skittle shitting unicorn's

If u tink it  :icon_sunny: It exists
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Surly1 on March 18, 2019, 03:02:16 PM
as opposed to plastering a bunch of the very kind of PC reeking cut-and paste BS that is exactly what I for one, am complaining about.

Calling me a "cut & paste" artist is preposterous.  I write mostly original stuff..  I only copy/paste a few articles each morning to provide fodder for discussion.  I write detailed and lengthy blog articles analyzing a variety of Collapse topics, and now I write, produce and direct myself on Videos to reach more people.  HTF do you pull out of that I am a cut & paste artist?  ???  :icon_scratch:

RE

Because you paste up articles meant to inform and promote discussion, that makes you a "cut-n-paste artist." I shit loose several 2000+ words articles a month, and that's all I am. All because "poor Ashvin." The fucking gall.

And in re Jordan Peterson, his oeuvre is so vast, who has time to do a volunteer Ph.D. studying his dreck? He's the intellectual darling of Rrepubliconfederate crypto-nazis. I don't need to drink from a sewer to know I don't want any more.

Any time retrograde thought makes an appearance on home ice, it's going to get checked into the boards as long as I am around. But I suspect I may be one of those hubris-laden types AJ complains about, so maybe I should just go fuck myself.

That noise you heart is Ashvin squeaking his assent.

I'd like to not walk away from here before hearing how the recital went. Perhaps I missed that post.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on March 18, 2019, 03:22:15 PM
(http://www.debbieschlussel.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/cantwealljustgetalong.jpg)

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: azozeo on March 18, 2019, 03:48:00 PM
Ashvin needs a "NEW & IMPROVED" designer guru....  :icon_sunny:

And we're here to help......  :icon_mrgreen:


Ashvin,

Bernhard Guenther might be a better solution.

Healing the Self, Healing the World – Ruminations About Humanity and Awakening

Life is becoming increasingly more complex. With the rise of the internet, we have access to more information than at any other time in recorded history. The information keeps increasing in a world that has become more and more unstable through economic meltdown, climate change, loss of privacy, and the inevitable corruption of government and authoritarian institutions. Despite these incredible technological advancements, most people in our world still live in poverty – and even in ‘developed’ countries, life has become a struggle, with many individuals facing great uncertainties regarding their future. The evolution of consciousness has not yet caught up with our technological progress.

Most people are living on autopilot, just trying to get by and ‘survive’. Technological progress has provided many solutions, but created even more problems. Collectively, we seem to be at a breaking point. These are challenging times, but every challenge and struggle provides an opportunity to help awaken us from the collective slumber.

The resulting struggle and friction is pushing many of us into questioning our world and our habitual ways of living. We seek answers and solutions for the world’s problems on both a collective and individual level.

Some people are more focused on externalized social activism, protesting and fighting injustice, asking for (or suggesting) new social systems designed for the “common good of all” and striving towards the creation of sustainable conscious communities. Others suggest that the answers lie within us, and that an internal transformation – on an individual level – is necessary before the “outer” can change.

However, before we can provide solutions, we need to ask ourselves what the “problem” actually is, and what we are dealing with when it comes to fundamental realities. What I’ve noticed over the years is that many well-meaning people ask for (or provide solutions to) the world’s issues without actually understanding what the deeper “problem” is, and hence most often wind up focusing on cutting the branches of a tree, instead of tackling the issues at their roots. Like the characters in Plato’s allegory of the cave, who are transfixed with the shadows cast on the wall, those well-meaning individuals who offer solutions that are generated from the same level of conscious awareness that consented to the creation of the problems in the first place aren’t offering any viable alternative at all. Put succinctly: providing premature solutions are part of the problem.

To counteract this fundamental misapprehension, I’ll be briefly outlining three big topics which, in a nutshell, I feel are realities that need to be addressed and brought to  awareness in order to help us collectively understand what we are dealing with on both a macro (global/collective) and micro (individual) level, as well as from the perspective of the evolution of consciousness. These points are based on my work, which is, in turn, derived from over twenty years of research and personal experiences. As a disclaimer, I do not claim to “know it all”, nor have I “figured it all out”. Obviously, there is also more to the “story” than what I’m going to address here. Ultimately, it’s about Truth, but seeking truth is a process which eventually goes beyond intellectual understanding (and the limitations of the mind and thought processes). Under each summation point, I provide links to my articles and essays, which explore these subjects in more depth.

Some of what I’ll be sharing delves deeply into psychology, esotericism, the occult (which simply means “hidden), and what some people may call “conspiracy”. On that note, oftentimes the term “conspiracy theorist” is used in mainstream/official culture as an ad hominem attack (a logical fallacy). When somebody says “this is just conspiracy theory” with a negative, condescending tone, it usually indicates an attempt to dismiss topics that may challenge those peoples’ beliefs. The socially-constructed “fact” that they are taboo and off-limits solidifies into people’s minds, subconsciously cutting off comprehension and further inquiry. Nobody wants to be called a “conspiracy theorist.” It’s like calling somebody a “wacko.”

This dismissive programming reflex is due to the fact that many people simply don’t understand the true meaning of the word “conspiracy”, which represents “a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.” As historian Richard Dolan wrote:

    “The very label [conspiracy] serves as an automatic dismissal, as though no one ever acts in secret. Let us bring some perspective and common sense to this issue. The United States comprises large organizations – corporations, bureaucracies, “interest groups,” and the like – which are conspiratorial by nature. That is, they are hierarchical, their important decisions are made in secret by a few key decision-makers, and they are not above lying about their activities. Such is the nature of organizational behavior.

    “Conspiracy,” in this key sense, is a way of life around the globe. Within the world’s military and intelligence apparatuses, this tendency is magnified to the greatest extreme. Anyone who has lived in a repressive society knows that official manipulation of the truth occurs daily. But societies have their many and their few. In all times and all places, it is the few who rule, and the few who exert dominant influence over what we may call official culture. All elites take care to manipulate public information to maintain existing structures of power. It’s an old game.”

Most of what we see on the word stage, the records of our official history, and what we have been taught (via ‘approved’ education channels) – as well as the information we get through government and the mainstream media about various topics and issues, present and past – is disinformation and a distortion of what is really going on, and that is by design. Whether it involves acts of terrorism (which are most often false flag attacks based on the Hegelian Dialect – ‘problem-reaction-solution’ – that’s designed to create a calculated reaction from the public), political subterfuge, and countless other atrocities, the ‘official narrative’ is a carefully constructed illusion.

We have been fed lies for thousands of years, conditioned and programed with beliefs about history, religion, science, and humanity itself (including our origins), which many of us don’t question. We have been conditioned to accept social and political systems of “order” and “control” which we gladly consent to without any hesitation, hypnotized and mind controlled like victims in a global Stockholm Syndrome set-up.

As an ironic example of this situation, the very term “conspiracy theory” was itself designed and unleashed onto the general public of the United States by the CIA in the late 1960s as a Psychological Operation initiative to malign, minimize, and discredit those researchers who were examining the many questions surrounding the Kennedy assassination (amongst other crimes and manipulations).

Before we can truly “heal” or “transform” the world, ourselves, or even just help others in their everyday lives, we need to take a deep look within ourselves and confront our own social/cultural (as well all religious/scientific) conditioning, and de-program ourselves from those “official culture” beliefs which have been ingrained into many of us since birth. This process requires both inner and outer discipline, sincere self-work, and external study. This process can bring up a lot of unpleasant reactivity, especially when we realize that truth is oftentimes stranger than fiction, and the direct opposite of what we have been told and taught.

Hence, we need watch out for the trap of “cognitive dissonance”, and act with humility and radical self-honesty when confronting the lies we have been telling ourselves…lies that we’ve been living with for most of our lives. Oftentimes, issues like self-importance, social status, career, public image concerns, and what others think of us (should we dare to acknowledge information that goes literally against the status quo and what the masses believe) can inhibit the process of questioning the world as we know it. Truth is usually not good for business. It can also isolate us from friends and family, and create all kinds of strident opposition and personal attacks, which I have experienced myself.

Having said all that, there is definitely an “awakening” happening. I witness more and more people starting to see through the illusion of “appearances”, engaging in sincere self-work, and questioning official culture/history and consensus reality. I’ve seen an exponential rise in awareness – especially within the past few years – of the topics I’m going to address.
1. Are “we” all the same?

There is often this talk about “we” and the “human family”. But who are “we”, really, and are we truly all the same inside? Externally, we all share the same human body (regardless of gender, ethnicity, or color). However, internally, an individual’s “inner wiring” – with regards to experiencing emotions, compassion, empathy, love, having a conscience – is vastly different, and is dependent upon that individual’s expression of Being (soul embodiment).

While most humans have access (in varying degrees) to these qualities, they all require engagement in order to be developed consciously, which includes the working through of false beliefs, wounds, trauma and shadow aspects…facets of personality that we all have. Without true love, compassion, and empathy on an embodied level (defined as feeling, experiencing and living it) – and not just as an intellectual acknowledgment – any head-centric “solution” we try to impose on the world will fail, no matter how well meaning the intention (and lofty the ideal) may be.

To assume that we are all the same and that everyone has access to this higher love (or any form of love) is self-deceiving at best, and we can see those kind of assumptions being expressed in the oversimplified idea that “we are all one!”. This assumption is one of the big reasons why virtually any external revolution in human history has failed to bring about any fundamentally-positive benefit to the human species as a whole…the changes have, in fact, been merely superficial and fleeting.

We are all one, but we are not all the same. There seems to be some major blind spots and oversimplifications around the metaphysical idea of “we”. This has nothing to do with an “us vs. them” binary position, but rather, it involves understanding how complex humanity actually is – what we choose to believe in and wish for, and what we avoid looking at and confronting, both within and without.

The biggest illusion many people seem to have is the assumption that we all have the potential to awaken in this life time and have access to love, empathy, conscience and higher values. It is assumed that because we’re collectively connected and look like “humans”, we are all are “equal” and the same. Another assumption is that everyone who is not “aware” is just misguided and can be “fixed” or “healed”. While this is true for the majority of humans, it can also result in projecting one’s own higher qualities (conscience, emotional intelligence) onto others who don’t possess these “humane” qualities, especially people who hold positions of power.

There exists a type of human who has no connection to the higher centers of universal love/awareness by nature of a birth ‘defect’. He/she is simply not genetically wired to embody empathic kindness; while not being able to access these qualities in this lifetime, he/she still possesses the ability to emulate and mimic these higher characteristics quite well, and can even distract us from our personal evolution by sapping our energy and feeding off them.

This type of “human” is the psychopath (comprising about 6 % of humanity, most often found in positions of power), who is hiding behind a mask of sanity, creating misery and chaos which he/she “feeds of off”. It goes way beyond mere greed and the pursuit of power. Psychopaths have no neuro-biological capability to experience anything close to love, compassion and empathy.

It’s not a psychological disposition but a genetic one. This is a very misunderstood and ignored topic, especially since most psychopaths can appear as “normal” through their “mask of sanity“ deception. They are not necessarily criminals housed in prisons (nor the Hollywood version of the “crazy serial killer”), but can be CEO’s, politicians, spiritual leaders, husbands, wives, or the child or the neighbor next door. They can tell you exactly what you want to hear, and appear compassionate, empathetic and understanding…without meaning or feeling one bit of it. They’re also pathological liars who never feel any guilt or remorse.

Becoming aware of the topic of psychopathy and educating oneself and others about it is one of the most crucial and important actions we can undertake to make this world a better place. It’s one of the underlying reasons why our world is in the state it’s in: our governing systems are being designed by – and run by – psychopaths. It affects everyone, since our society has become “ponerized” (meaning that normal people – and society as a whole – have taken on pathological traits that are then seen as normal)…in other words, it is pathology normalized.

It ties in with the general atrophy of critical thinking skills, and thus the failure to recognize pathological individuals as they are. I’m not just talking about average mainstream public awareness, but especially with regards to spiritually-inclined people and “social justice warriors” who deny/ignore this topic (usually without having done any sincere research into it). It’s of no use to envision solutions and create new social systems that focus on environmental issues if this topic is not acknowledged and addressed, for the virus of psychopathy will destroy any conscious communities and utopian visions eventually. I’m not saying to avoid focusing on such solutions, but the illusion that ‘all humans are equal and the same’ needs to be shattered in order for true change to happen.

    “One phenomenon all ponerogenic groups and associations have in common is the fact that their members lose (or have already lost) the capacity to perceive pathological individuals as such, interpreting their behavior in fascinated, heroic, or melodramatic ways. When the habits of subconscious selection and substitution of thought-data spread to the macrosocial level, a society tends to develop contempt for factual criticism and to humiliate anyone sounding an alarm.”

    – Andrew M. Lobaczewski, Political Ponerology

    “Too many people hold the idea that psychopaths are essentially killers or convicts. The general public hasn’t been educated to see beyond the social stereotypes to understand that psychopaths can be entrepreneurs, politicians, CEOs and other successful individuals who may never see the inside of a prison….Psychopaths have what it takes to defraud and bilk others: They are fast-talking, charming, self-assured, at ease in social situations, cool under pressure, unfazed by the possibility of being found out, and totally ruthless. The psychopath can actually put themselves inside your skin intellectually, not emotionally. They can tell what you’re thinking, in a sense, they can look at your body language, they listen to what you’re saying, but what they don’t really do is feel what you feel. What this allows them to do is to use the words to manipulate and con and interact with you, without the baggage of this ‘I really feel your pain’ ”

    – Dr. Robert Hare, Without Conscience

More on that topic here:

    Psychopaths in Power – The Elephant in the Living Room

2. Government and Authoritarianism

Government is the most basic set up of what I call the Matrix Control System. It is entirely based on belief, no different than a religious belief. Government grants a few people rights and powers that the average person doesn’t have, and we gladly give our power away to authority in a blind show of faith that the powers that be will take care of us and make the best decisions for their citizens. For an overview of the dangers and illogical/illusory beliefs surrounding government/statism, I recommend watching this short video by Larken Rose: Statism: The Most Dangerous Religion .

The first step to truly heal the world (and the self) is to step into our own embodied sovereignty and stop giving our power away to authoritarian institutions, be they political, scientific, religious or spiritual in nature.

On the most basic level, you can only attain a personal expression of sovereign identity and true freedom if you don’t follow any external authority, nor let any external authority tell you what you should or shouldn’t do. By that definition, as long as we believe in government, we cannot be fully sovereign. In the final analysis, we are “citizens” of the earth, not of nations based on imaginary borders and illusory systems of government/national identification. No matter who is in charge or what system is being implemented, there has never been (nor will there ever be) a government that can bring true freedom to the individual/communities of individuals. Political systems and governments are not broken and don’t need “fixing” (as many people proclaim) – they are designed explicitly to be a means of social control/social engineering, and always have been.

It doesn’t matter what candidate or party or ‘system’ people support (left, right, middle, independent, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Green, Progressive, Liberal, Conservative…whatever). These are all labels of identification based on an illusory idea, creating more division and separation between us.

However, we’ve been living under these political systems and governments for so long that we don’t even question them anymore, but accept them like a franchised international Stockholm Syndrome network, idealizing them whilst not seeing reality for what it is. We are so conditioned and programmed that we don’t even question the need of having “government” to begin with. Most people are afraid of the “chaos” that they believe would ensue if there were no government or authority to ‘lead’ them/“maintain control”, which is ultimately rooted in the fear of true freedom, taking responsibility and claiming our individual power, creativity and sovereignty.

It also shows how removed people are from nature, the Divine and the feminine aspect of consciousness. The belief in government is based on the isolated male aspect of consciousness that needs to control through rules, regulations, and punishment (if you don’t obey); it is disconnected from – and (unconsciously) afraid of – the Feminine frequency. For example, when you vote, you are literally giving permission to be ruled/governed. From a metaphysical perspective, it also keeps you enslaved via a choice made of your own free will (trap of agreement), regardless of your good-hearted intentions. Voting is like changing the tapestry in a prison cell, without ever breaking out of the prison…or (for most voters) not even realizing that one is in a prison at all.

More on that topic here:

    Politics, Sovereignty, and Embodiment

3. Hyperdimensional Realities

In my work I write and talk extensively about the Hyperdimensional Matrix Control System (HMCS), i.e. the non-physical occult (hidden) hostile forces and their mechanisms which aim to keep us spiritually asleep. To recap this phenomenon in a nutshell: humanity is not on the top of the “food chain”, and humanity is not in control of its sovereign decisions on a ‘macro’ scale. The idea of “free will” is, in many aspects, an illusion. Most of what we see on the world stage is manipulated and designed to create this “food” frequency of scarcity-fueled fear and reactivity (suffering, drama, fear, chaos, externally projected negative emotions (hate, anger, anxiety), worship, idolizing, superstition, wars, conflict on a global scale and via interpersonal fighting)…to keep humanity in a frequency prison, governed by forces who operate outside of our five-sensory perception.

We’ve been cut off from our full DNA potential (original genetic blueprint before “the Fall”), locked into limited five sensory perception, ego consciousness, physical survival mode and habitual indulgences, keeping us on a lower fear-based frequency and disconnected from the deeper wisdom of our bodies (our inner “technology”) and our divinity within, our own inner authority and emancipated selves.

These forces work through us/others (including through the elite/controllers on a 3-D level, whom they use as portals/puppets to carry out their agenda) and distract us by projecting the shadows of separation consciousness onto the wall/world stage (divide & conquer) and official culture. “Government” (or any belief in external authority) is also an “archonic” creation; the perfect foundation to keep people stuck in an endless loop of conflict with each other, ensuring that we remain disempowered so as to produce all the “loosh” they require to keep well-fed.

    “There are beings in the spiritual realms for whom anxiety and fear emanating from human beings offer welcome food. When humans have no anxiety and fear, then these creatures starve. People not yet sufficiently convinced of this statement could understand it to be meant comparatively only. But for those who are familiar with this phenomenon, it is a reality. If fear and anxiety radiates from people and they break out in panic, then these creatures find welcome nutrition and they become more and more powerful. These beings are hostile towards humanity.

    Everything that feeds on negative feelings, on anxiety, fear and superstition, despair or doubt, are in reality hostile forces in supersensible worlds, launching cruel attacks on human beings, while they are being fed. Therefore, it is above all necessary to begin with that the person who enters the spiritual world overcomes fear, feelings of helplessness, despair and anxiety. But these are exactly the feelings that belong to contemporary culture and materialism; because it estranges people from the spiritual world, it is especially suited to evoke hopelessness and fear of the unknown in people, thereby calling up the above mentioned hostile forces against them.”

    – Rudolf Steiner [Source (German): Rudolf Steiner – Die Erkenntnis der Seele und des Geistes – Berlin, 1907]

However, this is a “concept” that is really hard for most people to grasp and accept, and is most often ridiculed and laughed off as “sci-fi”, “conspiracy nonsense” or “mental/psychological delusion” because it’s so far out their conditioned beliefs and view of life (a perspective that is inserted into our minds by the same “force”).  And yet, despite the cynical skepticism, all of the ancient mystery schools, true shamanic insights, and esoteric teachings (much of which have been suppressed and/or distorted over thousands of years for obvious reasons) have conveyed this truth for ‘the ones with eyes to see and ears to hear’, using their own language and symbolism, be it “The General Law” (Esoteric Christianity), Archons (Gnostics), “Lords of Destiny” (Hermeticism), Predator/Fliers – “The topic of all topics” (Shamanism, Castaneda), “The Evil Magician” (Gurdjieff), The Shaitans (Sufism), The Jinn (Arabian mythology), Wetiko (Native American Spirituality), Occult Hostile Forces (Sri Aurobindo & The Mother, The Integral Yoga), etc.

It is not a “fairy tale” nor “superstition”. Our entire (modern) civilization is heavily influenced by this “force” – an “alien” construct, so to speak- which we have been led to accept as arising from “human nature”… a condition wherein pathology has become normalized.

This Knowledge won’t be brought to us via TED, Oprah, The NY Bestseller list, mainstream “science” – let alone any politician – anytime soon. This is a deep and complex topic which challenges virtually everything we’ve ever believed in with regards to our history and human origin. From personal experience, many people tend to ridicule/judge – or have an “opinion” about – this topic without ever having sincerely researched it …and have also avoided delving into the sincere esoteric self-work required in order to perceive these forces directly, to “see the unseen” beyond appearances.

    “[Look] at what happened in 1914 – or for that matter at all that is and has been happening in human history – the eye of the Yogin sees not only the outward events and persons and causes, but the enormous forces which precipitate them into action. If the men who fought were instruments in the hands of rulers and financiers, these in turn were mere puppets in the clutch of those hidden [hyperdimensional] forces.

    When one is habituated to see the things behind, one is no longer prone to be touched by the outward aspects – or to expect any remedy from political, institutional or social changes; the only way out is through the descent of an [embodied] consciousness which is not the puppet of these forces but is greater than they are.”

https://wakeup-world.com/2019/03/17/healing-the-self-healing-the-world-ruminations-about-humanity-and-awakening/
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on March 18, 2019, 03:51:35 PM
The recital was well worth the trip. She did eight songs including the arrangement of Joline that you liked, and also her version of Stardust, with two female back-up singers. She did an arrangement of the Tears for Fears song Head Over Heels, which is not her usual genre.

Her band was flawless. If there was a missed note, I didn't hear it. The kid she got to play guitar was off-the-charts good.  And Richard took one modest bass solo, and he absolutely killed it. She was backed by a quintet with piano, sax, guitar, bass, and drums. Her usual accompaniment.

So much better than a club. Just a little 50 seat performance room at the college. No frills, but a great place to listen. 20-30 people showed up.

Her major prof found me afterward and had some really nice things to say about Karen. I understood him to say she got the only A+ he's ever given in his jazz history class.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on March 18, 2019, 03:58:56 PM
The recital was well worth the trip. She did eight songs including the arrangement of Joline that you liked, and also her version of Stardust, with two female back-up singers. She did an arrangement of the Tears for Fears song Head Over Heels, which is not her usual genre.

Her band was flawless. If there was a missed note, I didn't hear it. The kid she got to play guitar was off-the-charts good.  And Richard took one modest bass solo, and he absolutely killed it. She was backed by a quintet with piano, sax, guitar, bass, and drums. Her usual accompaniment.

So much better than a club. Just a little 50 seat performance room at the college. No frills, but a great place to listen. 20-30 people showed up.

Her major prof found me afterward and had some really nice things to say about Karen. I understood him to say she got the only A+ he's ever given in his jazz history class.

Sounds great!  No Video?  :(

Now that she has the sheepskin, what's next?

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on March 18, 2019, 04:29:40 PM
She's doing well at private teaching. She'll keep doing that and she and Richard will stay at the Vanguard, hanging out and performing with their friends for the time being. They have a decent apartment there in Woodside and Karen has ALREADY paid off half her student loan. That kid really does have the money gene. She'll do fine. They seem very happy. It was good to see them. There is a low quality audio...if I can download it I'll post it.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: knarf on March 18, 2019, 04:33:56 PM
ATTENTION ALL DINERS! AZ has delivered the article that cuts through ALL the subjective theories floating around the world. Read this whole piece twice, it is as close to the truth of our present existence as anything I have found. Thank You AZ!!!!!



Ashvin needs a "NEW & IMPROVED" designer guru....  :icon_sunny:

And we're here to help......  :icon_mrgreen:


Ashvin,

Bernhard Guenther might be a better solution.

Healing the Self, Healing the World – Ruminations About Humanity and Awakening

Life is becoming increasingly more complex. With the rise of the internet, we have access to more information than at any other time in recorded history. The information keeps increasing in a world that has become more and more unstable through economic meltdown, climate change, loss of privacy, and the inevitable corruption of government and authoritarian institutions. Despite these incredible technological advancements, most people in our world still live in poverty – and even in ‘developed’ countries, life has become a struggle, with many individuals facing great uncertainties regarding their future. The evolution of consciousness has not yet caught up with our technological progress.

Most people are living on autopilot, just trying to get by and ‘survive’. Technological progress has provided many solutions, but created even more problems. Collectively, we seem to be at a breaking point. These are challenging times, but every challenge and struggle provides an opportunity to help awaken us from the collective slumber.

The resulting struggle and friction is pushing many of us into questioning our world and our habitual ways of living. We seek answers and solutions for the world’s problems on both a collective and individual level.

Some people are more focused on externalized social activism, protesting and fighting injustice, asking for (or suggesting) new social systems designed for the “common good of all” and striving towards the creation of sustainable conscious communities. Others suggest that the answers lie within us, and that an internal transformation – on an individual level – is necessary before the “outer” can change.

However, before we can provide solutions, we need to ask ourselves what the “problem” actually is, and what we are dealing with when it comes to fundamental realities. What I’ve noticed over the years is that many well-meaning people ask for (or provide solutions to) the world’s issues without actually understanding what the deeper “problem” is, and hence most often wind up focusing on cutting the branches of a tree, instead of tackling the issues at their roots. Like the characters in Plato’s allegory of the cave, who are transfixed with the shadows cast on the wall, those well-meaning individuals who offer solutions that are generated from the same level of conscious awareness that consented to the creation of the problems in the first place aren’t offering any viable alternative at all. Put succinctly: providing premature solutions are part of the problem.

To counteract this fundamental misapprehension, I’ll be briefly outlining three big topics which, in a nutshell, I feel are realities that need to be addressed and brought to  awareness in order to help us collectively understand what we are dealing with on both a macro (global/collective) and micro (individual) level, as well as from the perspective of the evolution of consciousness. These points are based on my work, which is, in turn, derived from over twenty years of research and personal experiences. As a disclaimer, I do not claim to “know it all”, nor have I “figured it all out”. Obviously, there is also more to the “story” than what I’m going to address here. Ultimately, it’s about Truth, but seeking truth is a process which eventually goes beyond intellectual understanding (and the limitations of the mind and thought processes). Under each summation point, I provide links to my articles and essays, which explore these subjects in more depth.

Some of what I’ll be sharing delves deeply into psychology, esotericism, the occult (which simply means “hidden), and what some people may call “conspiracy”. On that note, oftentimes the term “conspiracy theorist” is used in mainstream/official culture as an ad hominem attack (a logical fallacy). When somebody says “this is just conspiracy theory” with a negative, condescending tone, it usually indicates an attempt to dismiss topics that may challenge those peoples’ beliefs. The socially-constructed “fact” that they are taboo and off-limits solidifies into people’s minds, subconsciously cutting off comprehension and further inquiry. Nobody wants to be called a “conspiracy theorist.” It’s like calling somebody a “wacko.”

This dismissive programming reflex is due to the fact that many people simply don’t understand the true meaning of the word “conspiracy”, which represents “a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.” As historian Richard Dolan wrote:

    “The very label [conspiracy] serves as an automatic dismissal, as though no one ever acts in secret. Let us bring some perspective and common sense to this issue. The United States comprises large organizations – corporations, bureaucracies, “interest groups,” and the like – which are conspiratorial by nature. That is, they are hierarchical, their important decisions are made in secret by a few key decision-makers, and they are not above lying about their activities. Such is the nature of organizational behavior.

    “Conspiracy,” in this key sense, is a way of life around the globe. Within the world’s military and intelligence apparatuses, this tendency is magnified to the greatest extreme. Anyone who has lived in a repressive society knows that official manipulation of the truth occurs daily. But societies have their many and their few. In all times and all places, it is the few who rule, and the few who exert dominant influence over what we may call official culture. All elites take care to manipulate public information to maintain existing structures of power. It’s an old game.”

Most of what we see on the word stage, the records of our official history, and what we have been taught (via ‘approved’ education channels) – as well as the information we get through government and the mainstream media about various topics and issues, present and past – is disinformation and a distortion of what is really going on, and that is by design. Whether it involves acts of terrorism (which are most often false flag attacks based on the Hegelian Dialect – ‘problem-reaction-solution’ – that’s designed to create a calculated reaction from the public), political subterfuge, and countless other atrocities, the ‘official narrative’ is a carefully constructed illusion.

We have been fed lies for thousands of years, conditioned and programed with beliefs about history, religion, science, and humanity itself (including our origins), which many of us don’t question. We have been conditioned to accept social and political systems of “order” and “control” which we gladly consent to without any hesitation, hypnotized and mind controlled like victims in a global Stockholm Syndrome set-up.

As an ironic example of this situation, the very term “conspiracy theory” was itself designed and unleashed onto the general public of the United States by the CIA in the late 1960s as a Psychological Operation initiative to malign, minimize, and discredit those researchers who were examining the many questions surrounding the Kennedy assassination (amongst other crimes and manipulations).

Before we can truly “heal” or “transform” the world, ourselves, or even just help others in their everyday lives, we need to take a deep look within ourselves and confront our own social/cultural (as well all religious/scientific) conditioning, and de-program ourselves from those “official culture” beliefs which have been ingrained into many of us since birth. This process requires both inner and outer discipline, sincere self-work, and external study. This process can bring up a lot of unpleasant reactivity, especially when we realize that truth is oftentimes stranger than fiction, and the direct opposite of what we have been told and taught.

Hence, we need watch out for the trap of “cognitive dissonance”, and act with humility and radical self-honesty when confronting the lies we have been telling ourselves…lies that we’ve been living with for most of our lives. Oftentimes, issues like self-importance, social status, career, public image concerns, and what others think of us (should we dare to acknowledge information that goes literally against the status quo and what the masses believe) can inhibit the process of questioning the world as we know it. Truth is usually not good for business. It can also isolate us from friends and family, and create all kinds of strident opposition and personal attacks, which I have experienced myself.

Having said all that, there is definitely an “awakening” happening. I witness more and more people starting to see through the illusion of “appearances”, engaging in sincere self-work, and questioning official culture/history and consensus reality. I’ve seen an exponential rise in awareness – especially within the past few years – of the topics I’m going to address.
1. Are “we” all the same?

There is often this talk about “we” and the “human family”. But who are “we”, really, and are we truly all the same inside? Externally, we all share the same human body (regardless of gender, ethnicity, or color). However, internally, an individual’s “inner wiring” – with regards to experiencing emotions, compassion, empathy, love, having a conscience – is vastly different, and is dependent upon that individual’s expression of Being (soul embodiment).

While most humans have access (in varying degrees) to these qualities, they all require engagement in order to be developed consciously, which includes the working through of false beliefs, wounds, trauma and shadow aspects…facets of personality that we all have. Without true love, compassion, and empathy on an embodied level (defined as feeling, experiencing and living it) – and not just as an intellectual acknowledgment – any head-centric “solution” we try to impose on the world will fail, no matter how well meaning the intention (and lofty the ideal) may be.

To assume that we are all the same and that everyone has access to this higher love (or any form of love) is self-deceiving at best, and we can see those kind of assumptions being expressed in the oversimplified idea that “we are all one!”. This assumption is one of the big reasons why virtually any external revolution in human history has failed to bring about any fundamentally-positive benefit to the human species as a whole…the changes have, in fact, been merely superficial and fleeting.

We are all one, but we are not all the same. There seems to be some major blind spots and oversimplifications around the metaphysical idea of “we”. This has nothing to do with an “us vs. them” binary position, but rather, it involves understanding how complex humanity actually is – what we choose to believe in and wish for, and what we avoid looking at and confronting, both within and without.

The biggest illusion many people seem to have is the assumption that we all have the potential to awaken in this life time and have access to love, empathy, conscience and higher values. It is assumed that because we’re collectively connected and look like “humans”, we are all are “equal” and the same. Another assumption is that everyone who is not “aware” is just misguided and can be “fixed” or “healed”. While this is true for the majority of humans, it can also result in projecting one’s own higher qualities (conscience, emotional intelligence) onto others who don’t possess these “humane” qualities, especially people who hold positions of power.

There exists a type of human who has no connection to the higher centers of universal love/awareness by nature of a birth ‘defect’. He/she is simply not genetically wired to embody empathic kindness; while not being able to access these qualities in this lifetime, he/she still possesses the ability to emulate and mimic these higher characteristics quite well, and can even distract us from our personal evolution by sapping our energy and feeding off them.

This type of “human” is the psychopath (comprising about 6 % of humanity, most often found in positions of power), who is hiding behind a mask of sanity, creating misery and chaos which he/she “feeds of off”. It goes way beyond mere greed and the pursuit of power. Psychopaths have no neuro-biological capability to experience anything close to love, compassion and empathy.

It’s not a psychological disposition but a genetic one. This is a very misunderstood and ignored topic, especially since most psychopaths can appear as “normal” through their “mask of sanity“ deception. They are not necessarily criminals housed in prisons (nor the Hollywood version of the “crazy serial killer”), but can be CEO’s, politicians, spiritual leaders, husbands, wives, or the child or the neighbor next door. They can tell you exactly what you want to hear, and appear compassionate, empathetic and understanding…without meaning or feeling one bit of it. They’re also pathological liars who never feel any guilt or remorse.

Becoming aware of the topic of psychopathy and educating oneself and others about it is one of the most crucial and important actions we can undertake to make this world a better place. It’s one of the underlying reasons why our world is in the state it’s in: our governing systems are being designed by – and run by – psychopaths. It affects everyone, since our society has become “ponerized” (meaning that normal people – and society as a whole – have taken on pathological traits that are then seen as normal)…in other words, it is pathology normalized.

It ties in with the general atrophy of critical thinking skills, and thus the failure to recognize pathological individuals as they are. I’m not just talking about average mainstream public awareness, but especially with regards to spiritually-inclined people and “social justice warriors” who deny/ignore this topic (usually without having done any sincere research into it). It’s of no use to envision solutions and create new social systems that focus on environmental issues if this topic is not acknowledged and addressed, for the virus of psychopathy will destroy any conscious communities and utopian visions eventually. I’m not saying to avoid focusing on such solutions, but the illusion that ‘all humans are equal and the same’ needs to be shattered in order for true change to happen.

    “One phenomenon all ponerogenic groups and associations have in common is the fact that their members lose (or have already lost) the capacity to perceive pathological individuals as such, interpreting their behavior in fascinated, heroic, or melodramatic ways. When the habits of subconscious selection and substitution of thought-data spread to the macrosocial level, a society tends to develop contempt for factual criticism and to humiliate anyone sounding an alarm.”

    – Andrew M. Lobaczewski, Political Ponerology

    “Too many people hold the idea that psychopaths are essentially killers or convicts. The general public hasn’t been educated to see beyond the social stereotypes to understand that psychopaths can be entrepreneurs, politicians, CEOs and other successful individuals who may never see the inside of a prison….Psychopaths have what it takes to defraud and bilk others: They are fast-talking, charming, self-assured, at ease in social situations, cool under pressure, unfazed by the possibility of being found out, and totally ruthless. The psychopath can actually put themselves inside your skin intellectually, not emotionally. They can tell what you’re thinking, in a sense, they can look at your body language, they listen to what you’re saying, but what they don’t really do is feel what you feel. What this allows them to do is to use the words to manipulate and con and interact with you, without the baggage of this ‘I really feel your pain’ ”

    – Dr. Robert Hare, Without Conscience

More on that topic here:

    Psychopaths in Power – The Elephant in the Living Room

2. Government and Authoritarianism

Government is the most basic set up of what I call the Matrix Control System. It is entirely based on belief, no different than a religious belief. Government grants a few people rights and powers that the average person doesn’t have, and we gladly give our power away to authority in a blind show of faith that the powers that be will take care of us and make the best decisions for their citizens. For an overview of the dangers and illogical/illusory beliefs surrounding government/statism, I recommend watching this short video by Larken Rose: Statism: The Most Dangerous Religion .

The first step to truly heal the world (and the self) is to step into our own embodied sovereignty and stop giving our power away to authoritarian institutions, be they political, scientific, religious or spiritual in nature.

On the most basic level, you can only attain a personal expression of sovereign identity and true freedom if you don’t follow any external authority, nor let any external authority tell you what you should or shouldn’t do. By that definition, as long as we believe in government, we cannot be fully sovereign. In the final analysis, we are “citizens” of the earth, not of nations based on imaginary borders and illusory systems of government/national identification. No matter who is in charge or what system is being implemented, there has never been (nor will there ever be) a government that can bring true freedom to the individual/communities of individuals. Political systems and governments are not broken and don’t need “fixing” (as many people proclaim) – they are designed explicitly to be a means of social control/social engineering, and always have been.

It doesn’t matter what candidate or party or ‘system’ people support (left, right, middle, independent, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Green, Progressive, Liberal, Conservative…whatever). These are all labels of identification based on an illusory idea, creating more division and separation between us.

However, we’ve been living under these political systems and governments for so long that we don’t even question them anymore, but accept them like a franchised international Stockholm Syndrome network, idealizing them whilst not seeing reality for what it is. We are so conditioned and programmed that we don’t even question the need of having “government” to begin with. Most people are afraid of the “chaos” that they believe would ensue if there were no government or authority to ‘lead’ them/“maintain control”, which is ultimately rooted in the fear of true freedom, taking responsibility and claiming our individual power, creativity and sovereignty.

It also shows how removed people are from nature, the Divine and the feminine aspect of consciousness. The belief in government is based on the isolated male aspect of consciousness that needs to control through rules, regulations, and punishment (if you don’t obey); it is disconnected from – and (unconsciously) afraid of – the Feminine frequency. For example, when you vote, you are literally giving permission to be ruled/governed. From a metaphysical perspective, it also keeps you enslaved via a choice made of your own free will (trap of agreement), regardless of your good-hearted intentions. Voting is like changing the tapestry in a prison cell, without ever breaking out of the prison…or (for most voters) not even realizing that one is in a prison at all.

More on that topic here:

    Politics, Sovereignty, and Embodiment

3. Hyperdimensional Realities

In my work I write and talk extensively about the Hyperdimensional Matrix Control System (HMCS), i.e. the non-physical occult (hidden) hostile forces and their mechanisms which aim to keep us spiritually asleep. To recap this phenomenon in a nutshell: humanity is not on the top of the “food chain”, and humanity is not in control of its sovereign decisions on a ‘macro’ scale. The idea of “free will” is, in many aspects, an illusion. Most of what we see on the world stage is manipulated and designed to create this “food” frequency of scarcity-fueled fear and reactivity (suffering, drama, fear, chaos, externally projected negative emotions (hate, anger, anxiety), worship, idolizing, superstition, wars, conflict on a global scale and via interpersonal fighting)…to keep humanity in a frequency prison, governed by forces who operate outside of our five-sensory perception.

We’ve been cut off from our full DNA potential (original genetic blueprint before “the Fall”), locked into limited five sensory perception, ego consciousness, physical survival mode and habitual indulgences, keeping us on a lower fear-based frequency and disconnected from the deeper wisdom of our bodies (our inner “technology”) and our divinity within, our own inner authority and emancipated selves.

These forces work through us/others (including through the elite/controllers on a 3-D level, whom they use as portals/puppets to carry out their agenda) and distract us by projecting the shadows of separation consciousness onto the wall/world stage (divide & conquer) and official culture. “Government” (or any belief in external authority) is also an “archonic” creation; the perfect foundation to keep people stuck in an endless loop of conflict with each other, ensuring that we remain disempowered so as to produce all the “loosh” they require to keep well-fed.

    “There are beings in the spiritual realms for whom anxiety and fear emanating from human beings offer welcome food. When humans have no anxiety and fear, then these creatures starve. People not yet sufficiently convinced of this statement could understand it to be meant comparatively only. But for those who are familiar with this phenomenon, it is a reality. If fear and anxiety radiates from people and they break out in panic, then these creatures find welcome nutrition and they become more and more powerful. These beings are hostile towards humanity.

    Everything that feeds on negative feelings, on anxiety, fear and superstition, despair or doubt, are in reality hostile forces in supersensible worlds, launching cruel attacks on human beings, while they are being fed. Therefore, it is above all necessary to begin with that the person who enters the spiritual world overcomes fear, feelings of helplessness, despair and anxiety. But these are exactly the feelings that belong to contemporary culture and materialism; because it estranges people from the spiritual world, it is especially suited to evoke hopelessness and fear of the unknown in people, thereby calling up the above mentioned hostile forces against them.”

    – Rudolf Steiner [Source (German): Rudolf Steiner – Die Erkenntnis der Seele und des Geistes – Berlin, 1907]

However, this is a “concept” that is really hard for most people to grasp and accept, and is most often ridiculed and laughed off as “sci-fi”, “conspiracy nonsense” or “mental/psychological delusion” because it’s so far out their conditioned beliefs and view of life (a perspective that is inserted into our minds by the same “force”).  And yet, despite the cynical skepticism, all of the ancient mystery schools, true shamanic insights, and esoteric teachings (much of which have been suppressed and/or distorted over thousands of years for obvious reasons) have conveyed this truth for ‘the ones with eyes to see and ears to hear’, using their own language and symbolism, be it “The General Law” (Esoteric Christianity), Archons (Gnostics), “Lords of Destiny” (Hermeticism), Predator/Fliers – “The topic of all topics” (Shamanism, Castaneda), “The Evil Magician” (Gurdjieff), The Shaitans (Sufism), The Jinn (Arabian mythology), Wetiko (Native American Spirituality), Occult Hostile Forces (Sri Aurobindo & The Mother, The Integral Yoga), etc.

It is not a “fairy tale” nor “superstition”. Our entire (modern) civilization is heavily influenced by this “force” – an “alien” construct, so to speak- which we have been led to accept as arising from “human nature”… a condition wherein pathology has become normalized.

This Knowledge won’t be brought to us via TED, Oprah, The NY Bestseller list, mainstream “science” – let alone any politician – anytime soon. This is a deep and complex topic which challenges virtually everything we’ve ever believed in with regards to our history and human origin. From personal experience, many people tend to ridicule/judge – or have an “opinion” about – this topic without ever having sincerely researched it …and have also avoided delving into the sincere esoteric self-work required in order to perceive these forces directly, to “see the unseen” beyond appearances.

    “[Look] at what happened in 1914 – or for that matter at all that is and has been happening in human history – the eye of the Yogin sees not only the outward events and persons and causes, but the enormous forces which precipitate them into action. If the men who fought were instruments in the hands of rulers and financiers, these in turn were mere puppets in the clutch of those hidden [hyperdimensional] forces.

    When one is habituated to see the things behind, one is no longer prone to be touched by the outward aspects – or to expect any remedy from political, institutional or social changes; the only way out is through the descent of an [embodied] consciousness which is not the puppet of these forces but is greater than they are.”

https://wakeup-world.com/2019/03/17/healing-the-self-healing-the-world-ruminations-about-humanity-and-awakening/
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on March 18, 2019, 06:46:08 PM
Quote
You can love Peterson’s work or hate it, but it’s classic reactionary thinking.

Reactionary movements emerge most powerfully in periods of change and upheaval. As Robin writes:

Conservatism “becomes conscious and reflective when other ways of life and thought appear on the scene, against which it is compelled to take up arms in the ideological struggle.” Where the traditionalist can take the objects of desire for granted—he can enjoy them as if they are at hand because they are at hand—the conservative cannot. He seeks to enjoy them precisely as they are being—or have been—taken away. If he hopes to enjoy them again, he must contest their divestment in the public realm.

So why is this tendency emergent now? What is it reacting to?

My long answer to this question is to go read “White threat in a browning America.” The short version is we’re in a period of massive demographic and social change. The power structures really are in flux. We just had a black president and now we have a white backlash president, the #MeToo movement is transforming workplaces, college campuses are majority female, and most infants under 3 are nonwhite, to name just a few of the ongoing revolutions. This is a lot of change, all at once.

The PC wars are downstream from these upheavals. As marginalized groups gain power, they make claims. They want resources they were denied, positions they’ve been excluded from, social mores that make them comfortable, a discourse that represents them, a recognition of the ways in which society has been built atop an unjust foundation. Some of this is easy enough for society to grant, but much of it threatens the majority’s status, power, resources, or simply its sense of security. Action like this creates, well, reaction — and reactionary movements.

Look, Klein does a relatively decent job doing a bird's eye overview of people like Rubin and Peterson and some of the points they make. Then he slips in this alleged causal explanation of why they are reacting in the first place (in bold) and that's where it becomes the most lazy shit ever. Does he really think that people like Peterson haven't thought this through? Peterson, more than anyone, makes it a habit to reflect on the reasons why he says or does anything.

It's just so damn lazy to claim that this is all a case of conservative white people getting scared of minority groups getting rights and power. That these people garner millions of youtube watches for one hour plus videos because they are trying to preserve the traditional power structures under threat. That doesn't make a damn bit of sense. And it's exactly the kind of thing the radical left likes to claim - any hierarchy which they don't agree with can't possibly be a function of competence, it must be something more nefarious. The intellectuals doing great on youtube can't possibly be doing great because they actually have something meaningful to say.

The following 30 minute clip of Peterson has 40k views. It's from a 2015 lecture he gave to his students on his book Maps of Meaning. It's extremely philosophical. What kind of radical right wing reactionaries spend time watching something like this? Again, that doesn't make a damn bit of sense. And again, anyone who has an open mind can try watching this for themselves and he see if Peterson can be reduced to the right wing reactionary that Klein and others want to reduce him to.

http://www.youtube.com/v/rM8JsibkrI8
Title: Re: Where's my goddamn' graduation ceremony ?
Post by: UnhingedBecauseLucid on March 18, 2019, 07:04:16 PM
Where's my goddamn' graduation ceremony ?

This is the Kitchen sink right ?
I'd assume this is where it'd take place...

I'm a BUSSING STAFF NOW !!! ... and I apparently already manage to irritate Agelbert beyond his tolerance level !

Do I get a cigarette as a Bussing Staff award and a Fukitol for leaving Agelbert alone in his echo chamber ?
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on March 18, 2019, 07:23:26 PM
I said for anyone who is open minded, which clearly is not you. Good discussion with evidence like this is wasted on rabid ideologues.

"Give not that which is holy to the dogs, nor cast your pearls before the swine". Indeed.

As I mentioned, "ideologue" is not an epithet on the Diner.  Everybody's an ideologue, it's nothing special.

An ideologue is someone who believes all complex phenomenon in society can be explained in terms of an overarching paradigm. The paradigm could be secular or religious. For ex, a genuine Marxist would say that all conflicts, inequalities, etc. can be explained in terms of class conflict and exploitation by owners of capital.

(on that note, Peterson is debating Slavoj Zizek sometime in April, who is considered the foremost Marxist intellectual in the world.)

If I am an ideologue, I'd love to hear what my overarching paradigm is. Christianity? I don't think Christianity can or should be used to explain every societal issue. Free market capitalism? I have pointed out many times I spend most of my life working in a system that regulates free markets, so clearly I don't believe that can or should explain everything.
Title: Re: Where's my goddamn' graduation ceremony ?
Post by: Eddie on March 18, 2019, 08:00:23 PM
Where's my goddamn' graduation ceremony ?

This is the Kitchen sink right ?
I'd assume this is where it'd take place...

I'm a BUSSING STAFF NOW !!! ... and I apparently already manage to irritate Agelbert beyond his tolerance level !

Do I get a cigarette as a Bussing Staff award and a Fukitol for leaving Agelbert alone in his echo chamber ?

That shit'll kill ya.

Here. As an outstanding bus boy and for standing up to AG without telling him to fuck off and die, I present you with this lovely Cheech and Chong  commemorative  stoner bubbler, stuffed with a decent bud of a nice sativa to help you stay up til closing time.

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0755/6213/products/cheech-and-chong-glass-original-stoners-bubbler_1024x1024.jpg?v=1519850494)
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: K-Dog on March 18, 2019, 08:46:42 PM
Grape Dubs vaping oil (sativa).  86%.  Thirty bucks at the Have-A-Heart pot shop over by Allentown.  Three bucks off with wisdom discount.  It lasts a committed pilot of the inner realm about two days.  A lightweight could make it last a long time. 
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Surly1 on March 19, 2019, 02:57:21 AM
The recital was well worth the trip. She did eight songs including the arrangement of Joline that you liked, and also her version of Stardust, with two female back-up singers. She did an arrangement of the Tears for Fears song Head Over Heels, which is not her usual genre.

Her band was flawless. If there was a missed note, I didn't hear it. The kid she got to play guitar was off-the-charts good.  And Richard took one modest bass solo, and he absolutely killed it. She was backed by a quintet with piano, sax, guitar, bass, and drums. Her usual accompaniment.

So much better than a club. Just a little 50 seat performance room at the college. No frills, but a great place to listen. 20-30 people showed up.

Her major prof found me afterward and had some really nice things to say about Karen. I understood him to say she got the only A+ he's ever given in his jazz history class.

Excellent.

Sounds like it was terrific.
Title: Re: Where's my goddamn' graduation ceremony ?
Post by: azozeo on March 19, 2019, 11:04:20 AM
Where's my goddamn' graduation ceremony ?

This is the Kitchen sink right ?
I'd assume this is where it'd take place...

I'm a BUSSING STAFF NOW !!! ... and I apparently already manage to irritate Agelbert beyond his tolerance level !

Do I get a cigarette as a Bussing Staff award and a Fukitol for leaving Agelbert alone in his echo chamber ?

That shit'll kill ya.

Here. As an outstanding bus boy and for standing up to AG without telling him to fuck off and die, I present you with this lovely Cheech and Chong  commemorative  stoner bubbler, stuffed with a decent bud of a nice sativa to help you stay up til closing time.

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0755/6213/products/cheech-and-chong-glass-original-stoners-bubbler_1024x1024.jpg?v=1519850494)




http://www.youtube.com/v/wVOa3xhl0bg&fs=1
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: azozeo on March 19, 2019, 11:05:50 AM
ATTENTION ALL DINERS! AZ has delivered the article that cuts through ALL the subjective theories floating around the world. Read this whole piece twice, it is as close to the truth of our present existence as anything I have found. Thank You AZ!!!!!



Ashvin needs a "NEW & IMPROVED" designer guru....  :icon_sunny:

And we're here to help......  :icon_mrgreen:


Ashvin,

Bernhard Guenther might be a better solution.

Healing the Self, Healing the World – Ruminations About Humanity and Awakening

Life is becoming increasingly more complex. With the rise of the internet, we have access to more information than at any other time in recorded history. The information keeps increasing in a world that has become more and more unstable through economic meltdown, climate change, loss of privacy, and the inevitable corruption of government and authoritarian institutions. Despite these incredible technological advancements, most people in our world still live in poverty – and even in ‘developed’ countries, life has become a struggle, with many individuals facing great uncertainties regarding their future. The evolution of consciousness has not yet caught up with our technological progress.

Most people are living on autopilot, just trying to get by and ‘survive’. Technological progress has provided many solutions, but created even more problems. Collectively, we seem to be at a breaking point. These are challenging times, but every challenge and struggle provides an opportunity to help awaken us from the collective slumber.

The resulting struggle and friction is pushing many of us into questioning our world and our habitual ways of living. We seek answers and solutions for the world’s problems on both a collective and individual level.

Some people are more focused on externalized social activism, protesting and fighting injustice, asking for (or suggesting) new social systems designed for the “common good of all” and striving towards the creation of sustainable conscious communities. Others suggest that the answers lie within us, and that an internal transformation – on an individual level – is necessary before the “outer” can change.

However, before we can provide solutions, we need to ask ourselves what the “problem” actually is, and what we are dealing with when it comes to fundamental realities. What I’ve noticed over the years is that many well-meaning people ask for (or provide solutions to) the world’s issues without actually understanding what the deeper “problem” is, and hence most often wind up focusing on cutting the branches of a tree, instead of tackling the issues at their roots. Like the characters in Plato’s allegory of the cave, who are transfixed with the shadows cast on the wall, those well-meaning individuals who offer solutions that are generated from the same level of conscious awareness that consented to the creation of the problems in the first place aren’t offering any viable alternative at all. Put succinctly: providing premature solutions are part of the problem.

To counteract this fundamental misapprehension, I’ll be briefly outlining three big topics which, in a nutshell, I feel are realities that need to be addressed and brought to  awareness in order to help us collectively understand what we are dealing with on both a macro (global/collective) and micro (individual) level, as well as from the perspective of the evolution of consciousness. These points are based on my work, which is, in turn, derived from over twenty years of research and personal experiences. As a disclaimer, I do not claim to “know it all”, nor have I “figured it all out”. Obviously, there is also more to the “story” than what I’m going to address here. Ultimately, it’s about Truth, but seeking truth is a process which eventually goes beyond intellectual understanding (and the limitations of the mind and thought processes). Under each summation point, I provide links to my articles and essays, which explore these subjects in more depth.

Some of what I’ll be sharing delves deeply into psychology, esotericism, the occult (which simply means “hidden), and what some people may call “conspiracy”. On that note, oftentimes the term “conspiracy theorist” is used in mainstream/official culture as an ad hominem attack (a logical fallacy). When somebody says “this is just conspiracy theory” with a negative, condescending tone, it usually indicates an attempt to dismiss topics that may challenge those peoples’ beliefs. The socially-constructed “fact” that they are taboo and off-limits solidifies into people’s minds, subconsciously cutting off comprehension and further inquiry. Nobody wants to be called a “conspiracy theorist.” It’s like calling somebody a “wacko.”

This dismissive programming reflex is due to the fact that many people simply don’t understand the true meaning of the word “conspiracy”, which represents “a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.” As historian Richard Dolan wrote:

    “The very label [conspiracy] serves as an automatic dismissal, as though no one ever acts in secret. Let us bring some perspective and common sense to this issue. The United States comprises large organizations – corporations, bureaucracies, “interest groups,” and the like – which are conspiratorial by nature. That is, they are hierarchical, their important decisions are made in secret by a few key decision-makers, and they are not above lying about their activities. Such is the nature of organizational behavior.

    “Conspiracy,” in this key sense, is a way of life around the globe. Within the world’s military and intelligence apparatuses, this tendency is magnified to the greatest extreme. Anyone who has lived in a repressive society knows that official manipulation of the truth occurs daily. But societies have their many and their few. In all times and all places, it is the few who rule, and the few who exert dominant influence over what we may call official culture. All elites take care to manipulate public information to maintain existing structures of power. It’s an old game.”

Most of what we see on the word stage, the records of our official history, and what we have been taught (via ‘approved’ education channels) – as well as the information we get through government and the mainstream media about various topics and issues, present and past – is disinformation and a distortion of what is really going on, and that is by design. Whether it involves acts of terrorism (which are most often false flag attacks based on the Hegelian Dialect – ‘problem-reaction-solution’ – that’s designed to create a calculated reaction from the public), political subterfuge, and countless other atrocities, the ‘official narrative’ is a carefully constructed illusion.

We have been fed lies for thousands of years, conditioned and programed with beliefs about history, religion, science, and humanity itself (including our origins), which many of us don’t question. We have been conditioned to accept social and political systems of “order” and “control” which we gladly consent to without any hesitation, hypnotized and mind controlled like victims in a global Stockholm Syndrome set-up.

As an ironic example of this situation, the very term “conspiracy theory” was itself designed and unleashed onto the general public of the United States by the CIA in the late 1960s as a Psychological Operation initiative to malign, minimize, and discredit those researchers who were examining the many questions surrounding the Kennedy assassination (amongst other crimes and manipulations).

Before we can truly “heal” or “transform” the world, ourselves, or even just help others in their everyday lives, we need to take a deep look within ourselves and confront our own social/cultural (as well all religious/scientific) conditioning, and de-program ourselves from those “official culture” beliefs which have been ingrained into many of us since birth. This process requires both inner and outer discipline, sincere self-work, and external study. This process can bring up a lot of unpleasant reactivity, especially when we realize that truth is oftentimes stranger than fiction, and the direct opposite of what we have been told and taught.

Hence, we need watch out for the trap of “cognitive dissonance”, and act with humility and radical self-honesty when confronting the lies we have been telling ourselves…lies that we’ve been living with for most of our lives. Oftentimes, issues like self-importance, social status, career, public image concerns, and what others think of us (should we dare to acknowledge information that goes literally against the status quo and what the masses believe) can inhibit the process of questioning the world as we know it. Truth is usually not good for business. It can also isolate us from friends and family, and create all kinds of strident opposition and personal attacks, which I have experienced myself.

Having said all that, there is definitely an “awakening” happening. I witness more and more people starting to see through the illusion of “appearances”, engaging in sincere self-work, and questioning official culture/history and consensus reality. I’ve seen an exponential rise in awareness – especially within the past few years – of the topics I’m going to address.
1. Are “we” all the same?

There is often this talk about “we” and the “human family”. But who are “we”, really, and are we truly all the same inside? Externally, we all share the same human body (regardless of gender, ethnicity, or color). However, internally, an individual’s “inner wiring” – with regards to experiencing emotions, compassion, empathy, love, having a conscience – is vastly different, and is dependent upon that individual’s expression of Being (soul embodiment).

While most humans have access (in varying degrees) to these qualities, they all require engagement in order to be developed consciously, which includes the working through of false beliefs, wounds, trauma and shadow aspects…facets of personality that we all have. Without true love, compassion, and empathy on an embodied level (defined as feeling, experiencing and living it) – and not just as an intellectual acknowledgment – any head-centric “solution” we try to impose on the world will fail, no matter how well meaning the intention (and lofty the ideal) may be.

To assume that we are all the same and that everyone has access to this higher love (or any form of love) is self-deceiving at best, and we can see those kind of assumptions being expressed in the oversimplified idea that “we are all one!”. This assumption is one of the big reasons why virtually any external revolution in human history has failed to bring about any fundamentally-positive benefit to the human species as a whole…the changes have, in fact, been merely superficial and fleeting.

We are all one, but we are not all the same. There seems to be some major blind spots and oversimplifications around the metaphysical idea of “we”. This has nothing to do with an “us vs. them” binary position, but rather, it involves understanding how complex humanity actually is – what we choose to believe in and wish for, and what we avoid looking at and confronting, both within and without.

The biggest illusion many people seem to have is the assumption that we all have the potential to awaken in this life time and have access to love, empathy, conscience and higher values. It is assumed that because we’re collectively connected and look like “humans”, we are all are “equal” and the same. Another assumption is that everyone who is not “aware” is just misguided and can be “fixed” or “healed”. While this is true for the majority of humans, it can also result in projecting one’s own higher qualities (conscience, emotional intelligence) onto others who don’t possess these “humane” qualities, especially people who hold positions of power.

There exists a type of human who has no connection to the higher centers of universal love/awareness by nature of a birth ‘defect’. He/she is simply not genetically wired to embody empathic kindness; while not being able to access these qualities in this lifetime, he/she still possesses the ability to emulate and mimic these higher characteristics quite well, and can even distract us from our personal evolution by sapping our energy and feeding off them.

This type of “human” is the psychopath (comprising about 6 % of humanity, most often found in positions of power), who is hiding behind a mask of sanity, creating misery and chaos which he/she “feeds of off”. It goes way beyond mere greed and the pursuit of power. Psychopaths have no neuro-biological capability to experience anything close to love, compassion and empathy.

It’s not a psychological disposition but a genetic one. This is a very misunderstood and ignored topic, especially since most psychopaths can appear as “normal” through their “mask of sanity“ deception. They are not necessarily criminals housed in prisons (nor the Hollywood version of the “crazy serial killer”), but can be CEO’s, politicians, spiritual leaders, husbands, wives, or the child or the neighbor next door. They can tell you exactly what you want to hear, and appear compassionate, empathetic and understanding…without meaning or feeling one bit of it. They’re also pathological liars who never feel any guilt or remorse.

Becoming aware of the topic of psychopathy and educating oneself and others about it is one of the most crucial and important actions we can undertake to make this world a better place. It’s one of the underlying reasons why our world is in the state it’s in: our governing systems are being designed by – and run by – psychopaths. It affects everyone, since our society has become “ponerized” (meaning that normal people – and society as a whole – have taken on pathological traits that are then seen as normal)…in other words, it is pathology normalized.

It ties in with the general atrophy of critical thinking skills, and thus the failure to recognize pathological individuals as they are. I’m not just talking about average mainstream public awareness, but especially with regards to spiritually-inclined people and “social justice warriors” who deny/ignore this topic (usually without having done any sincere research into it). It’s of no use to envision solutions and create new social systems that focus on environmental issues if this topic is not acknowledged and addressed, for the virus of psychopathy will destroy any conscious communities and utopian visions eventually. I’m not saying to avoid focusing on such solutions, but the illusion that ‘all humans are equal and the same’ needs to be shattered in order for true change to happen.

    “One phenomenon all ponerogenic groups and associations have in common is the fact that their members lose (or have already lost) the capacity to perceive pathological individuals as such, interpreting their behavior in fascinated, heroic, or melodramatic ways. When the habits of subconscious selection and substitution of thought-data spread to the macrosocial level, a society tends to develop contempt for factual criticism and to humiliate anyone sounding an alarm.”

    – Andrew M. Lobaczewski, Political Ponerology

    “Too many people hold the idea that psychopaths are essentially killers or convicts. The general public hasn’t been educated to see beyond the social stereotypes to understand that psychopaths can be entrepreneurs, politicians, CEOs and other successful individuals who may never see the inside of a prison….Psychopaths have what it takes to defraud and bilk others: They are fast-talking, charming, self-assured, at ease in social situations, cool under pressure, unfazed by the possibility of being found out, and totally ruthless. The psychopath can actually put themselves inside your skin intellectually, not emotionally. They can tell what you’re thinking, in a sense, they can look at your body language, they listen to what you’re saying, but what they don’t really do is feel what you feel. What this allows them to do is to use the words to manipulate and con and interact with you, without the baggage of this ‘I really feel your pain’ ”

    – Dr. Robert Hare, Without Conscience

More on that topic here:

    Psychopaths in Power – The Elephant in the Living Room

2. Government and Authoritarianism

Government is the most basic set up of what I call the Matrix Control System. It is entirely based on belief, no different than a religious belief. Government grants a few people rights and powers that the average person doesn’t have, and we gladly give our power away to authority in a blind show of faith that the powers that be will take care of us and make the best decisions for their citizens. For an overview of the dangers and illogical/illusory beliefs surrounding government/statism, I recommend watching this short video by Larken Rose: Statism: The Most Dangerous Religion .

The first step to truly heal the world (and the self) is to step into our own embodied sovereignty and stop giving our power away to authoritarian institutions, be they political, scientific, religious or spiritual in nature.

On the most basic level, you can only attain a personal expression of sovereign identity and true freedom if you don’t follow any external authority, nor let any external authority tell you what you should or shouldn’t do. By that definition, as long as we believe in government, we cannot be fully sovereign. In the final analysis, we are “citizens” of the earth, not of nations based on imaginary borders and illusory systems of government/national identification. No matter who is in charge or what system is being implemented, there has never been (nor will there ever be) a government that can bring true freedom to the individual/communities of individuals. Political systems and governments are not broken and don’t need “fixing” (as many people proclaim) – they are designed explicitly to be a means of social control/social engineering, and always have been.

It doesn’t matter what candidate or party or ‘system’ people support (left, right, middle, independent, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Green, Progressive, Liberal, Conservative…whatever). These are all labels of identification based on an illusory idea, creating more division and separation between us.

However, we’ve been living under these political systems and governments for so long that we don’t even question them anymore, but accept them like a franchised international Stockholm Syndrome network, idealizing them whilst not seeing reality for what it is. We are so conditioned and programmed that we don’t even question the need of having “government” to begin with. Most people are afraid of the “chaos” that they believe would ensue if there were no government or authority to ‘lead’ them/“maintain control”, which is ultimately rooted in the fear of true freedom, taking responsibility and claiming our individual power, creativity and sovereignty.

It also shows how removed people are from nature, the Divine and the feminine aspect of consciousness. The belief in government is based on the isolated male aspect of consciousness that needs to control through rules, regulations, and punishment (if you don’t obey); it is disconnected from – and (unconsciously) afraid of – the Feminine frequency. For example, when you vote, you are literally giving permission to be ruled/governed. From a metaphysical perspective, it also keeps you enslaved via a choice made of your own free will (trap of agreement), regardless of your good-hearted intentions. Voting is like changing the tapestry in a prison cell, without ever breaking out of the prison…or (for most voters) not even realizing that one is in a prison at all.

More on that topic here:

    Politics, Sovereignty, and Embodiment

3. Hyperdimensional Realities

In my work I write and talk extensively about the Hyperdimensional Matrix Control System (HMCS), i.e. the non-physical occult (hidden) hostile forces and their mechanisms which aim to keep us spiritually asleep. To recap this phenomenon in a nutshell: humanity is not on the top of the “food chain”, and humanity is not in control of its sovereign decisions on a ‘macro’ scale. The idea of “free will” is, in many aspects, an illusion. Most of what we see on the world stage is manipulated and designed to create this “food” frequency of scarcity-fueled fear and reactivity (suffering, drama, fear, chaos, externally projected negative emotions (hate, anger, anxiety), worship, idolizing, superstition, wars, conflict on a global scale and via interpersonal fighting)…to keep humanity in a frequency prison, governed by forces who operate outside of our five-sensory perception.

We’ve been cut off from our full DNA potential (original genetic blueprint before “the Fall”), locked into limited five sensory perception, ego consciousness, physical survival mode and habitual indulgences, keeping us on a lower fear-based frequency and disconnected from the deeper wisdom of our bodies (our inner “technology”) and our divinity within, our own inner authority and emancipated selves.

These forces work through us/others (including through the elite/controllers on a 3-D level, whom they use as portals/puppets to carry out their agenda) and distract us by projecting the shadows of separation consciousness onto the wall/world stage (divide & conquer) and official culture. “Government” (or any belief in external authority) is also an “archonic” creation; the perfect foundation to keep people stuck in an endless loop of conflict with each other, ensuring that we remain disempowered so as to produce all the “loosh” they require to keep well-fed.

    “There are beings in the spiritual realms for whom anxiety and fear emanating from human beings offer welcome food. When humans have no anxiety and fear, then these creatures starve. People not yet sufficiently convinced of this statement could understand it to be meant comparatively only. But for those who are familiar with this phenomenon, it is a reality. If fear and anxiety radiates from people and they break out in panic, then these creatures find welcome nutrition and they become more and more powerful. These beings are hostile towards humanity.

    Everything that feeds on negative feelings, on anxiety, fear and superstition, despair or doubt, are in reality hostile forces in supersensible worlds, launching cruel attacks on human beings, while they are being fed. Therefore, it is above all necessary to begin with that the person who enters the spiritual world overcomes fear, feelings of helplessness, despair and anxiety. But these are exactly the feelings that belong to contemporary culture and materialism; because it estranges people from the spiritual world, it is especially suited to evoke hopelessness and fear of the unknown in people, thereby calling up the above mentioned hostile forces against them.”

    – Rudolf Steiner [Source (German): Rudolf Steiner – Die Erkenntnis der Seele und des Geistes – Berlin, 1907]

However, this is a “concept” that is really hard for most people to grasp and accept, and is most often ridiculed and laughed off as “sci-fi”, “conspiracy nonsense” or “mental/psychological delusion” because it’s so far out their conditioned beliefs and view of life (a perspective that is inserted into our minds by the same “force”).  And yet, despite the cynical skepticism, all of the ancient mystery schools, true shamanic insights, and esoteric teachings (much of which have been suppressed and/or distorted over thousands of years for obvious reasons) have conveyed this truth for ‘the ones with eyes to see and ears to hear’, using their own language and symbolism, be it “The General Law” (Esoteric Christianity), Archons (Gnostics), “Lords of Destiny” (Hermeticism), Predator/Fliers – “The topic of all topics” (Shamanism, Castaneda), “The Evil Magician” (Gurdjieff), The Shaitans (Sufism), The Jinn (Arabian mythology), Wetiko (Native American Spirituality), Occult Hostile Forces (Sri Aurobindo & The Mother, The Integral Yoga), etc.

It is not a “fairy tale” nor “superstition”. Our entire (modern) civilization is heavily influenced by this “force” – an “alien” construct, so to speak- which we have been led to accept as arising from “human nature”… a condition wherein pathology has become normalized.

This Knowledge won’t be brought to us via TED, Oprah, The NY Bestseller list, mainstream “science” – let alone any politician – anytime soon. This is a deep and complex topic which challenges virtually everything we’ve ever believed in with regards to our history and human origin. From personal experience, many people tend to ridicule/judge – or have an “opinion” about – this topic without ever having sincerely researched it …and have also avoided delving into the sincere esoteric self-work required in order to perceive these forces directly, to “see the unseen” beyond appearances.

    “[Look] at what happened in 1914 – or for that matter at all that is and has been happening in human history – the eye of the Yogin sees not only the outward events and persons and causes, but the enormous forces which precipitate them into action. If the men who fought were instruments in the hands of rulers and financiers, these in turn were mere puppets in the clutch of those hidden [hyperdimensional] forces.

    When one is habituated to see the things behind, one is no longer prone to be touched by the outward aspects – or to expect any remedy from political, institutional or social changes; the only way out is through the descent of an [embodied] consciousness which is not the puppet of these forces but is greater than they are.”

https://wakeup-world.com/2019/03/17/healing-the-self-healing-the-world-ruminations-about-humanity-and-awakening/


Thank you Knarf....

The seed has been planted, we must see if it takes hold & sprouts  :icon_sunny:
Title: Dios los cria y ellos 🐷 se juntan.
Post by: agelbert on March 19, 2019, 11:09:03 AM
Where's my goddamn' graduation ceremony ?

This is the Kitchen sink right ?
I'd assume this is where it'd take place...

I'm a BUSSING STAFF NOW !!! ... and I apparently already manage to irritate Agelbert beyond his tolerance level !

Do I get a cigarette as a Bussing Staff award and a Fukitol for leaving Agelbert alone in his echo chamber ?

That shit'll kill ya.

Here. As an outstanding bus boy and for standing up to AG without telling him to fuck off and die, I present you with this lovely Cheech and Chong  commemorative  stoner bubbler, stuffed with a decent bud of a nice sativa to help you stay up til closing time.

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0755/6213/products/cheech-and-chong-glass-original-stoners-bubbler_1024x1024.jpg?v=1519850494)
::)

UBL 🦕 has found an Admin (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-130418193910.gif) :evil4: pal for life!

Birds (http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-040718162655-14231561.gif) 💵 🎩 of a feather flock together. Enjoy the music. (http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185701.png)

http://www.youtube.com/v/CRZy8yImNWc&fs=1

http://www.youtube.com/v/pEqWCH_4srU&fs=1

(http://pm1.narvii.com/5869/6a64193d6770c3afd17406c78686c0eda32ded1c_hq.jpg)






Title: Re:Where's my goddamn' graduation ceremony ?
Post by: UnhingedBecauseLucid on March 19, 2019, 02:06:04 PM
Quote
That shit'll kill ya.

Here. As an outstanding bus boy and for standing up to AG without telling him to fuck off and die, I present you with this lovely Cheech and Chong  commemorative  stoner bubbler, stuffed with a decent bud of a nice sativa to help you stay up til closing time.

Thanks Eddie !

Your right ...that stuff kills... that why I'm not even a cigarette smoker... never been... but I did smoke a few on very rare occasions in the past ... just to disturb the universe and ... and it's relentless assault of soul crushing boredom ...

Very cool bong.... but I gave that up many years ago.... although there's a friend I see maybe once a year,.. and sometimes, we try to relive the past  ...  ;)


Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on March 19, 2019, 02:16:00 PM

Healing the Self, Healing the World – Ruminations About Humanity and Awakening

Life is becoming increasingly more complex. With the rise of the internet, we have access to more information than at any other time in recorded history. The information keeps increasing in a world that has become more and more unstable through economic meltdown, climate change, loss of privacy, and the inevitable corruption of government and authoritarian institutions. Despite these incredible technological advancements, most people in our world still live in poverty – and even in ‘developed’ countries, life has become a struggle, with many individuals facing great uncertainties regarding their future. The evolution of consciousness has not yet caught up with our technological progress.

It depends on what the author means by "poverty". Only 10% of people in the world live in extreme poverty, which is not "most people". This means that the number of people in extreme poverty was more than halved in the last 20 or so years.

I am weary of following "gurus" who can't get their facts straight in the first paragraph of an article, or who don't care enough to look them up.

Quote
However, before we can provide solutions, we need to ask ourselves what the “problem” actually is, and what we are dealing with when it comes to fundamental realities. What I’ve noticed over the years is that many well-meaning people ask for (or provide solutions to) the world’s issues without actually understanding what the deeper “problem” is, and hence most often wind up focusing on cutting the branches of a tree, instead of tackling the issues at their roots. Like the characters in Plato’s allegory of the cave, who are transfixed with the shadows cast on the wall, those well-meaning individuals who offer solutions that are generated from the same level of conscious awareness that consented to the creation of the problems in the first place aren’t offering any viable alternative at all. Put succinctly: providing premature solutions are part of the problem.

I definitely agree that premature solutions are a part of the problem. Most people are attempting to diagnose the problems and offer solutions without realizing the limitations of their diagnostic capacity.

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Most of what we see on the word stage, the records of our official history, and what we have been taught (via ‘approved’ education channels) – as well as the information we get through government and the mainstream media about various topics and issues, present and past – is disinformation and a distortion of what is really going on, and that is by design. Whether it involves acts of terrorism (which are most often false flag attacks based on the Hegelian Dialect – ‘problem-reaction-solution’ – that’s designed to create a calculated reaction from the public), political subterfuge, and countless other atrocities, the ‘official narrative’ is a carefully constructed illusion.

We have been fed lies for thousands of years, conditioned and programed with beliefs about history, religion, science, and humanity itself (including our origins), which many of us don’t question. We have been conditioned to accept social and political systems of “order” and “control” which we gladly consent to without any hesitation, hypnotized and mind controlled like victims in a global Stockholm Syndrome set-up.

As an ironic example of this situation, the very term “conspiracy theory” was itself designed and unleashed onto the general public of the United States by the CIA in the late 1960s as a Psychological Operation initiative to malign, minimize, and discredit those researchers who were examining the many questions surrounding the Kennedy assassination (amongst other crimes and manipulations).

Before we can truly “heal” or “transform” the world, ourselves, or even just help others in their everyday lives, we need to take a deep look within ourselves and confront our own social/cultural (as well all religious/scientific) conditioning, and de-program ourselves from those “official culture” beliefs which have been ingrained into many of us since birth. This process requires both inner and outer discipline, sincere self-work, and external study. This process can bring up a lot of unpleasant reactivity, especially when we realize that truth is oftentimes stranger than fiction, and the direct opposite of what we have been told and taught.

This is a prime example of overestimating your diagnostic capacity. I have no problem with people positing conspiracy theories - the problem is when people posit them without any good evidence other than imitations of what other like minded people claim is evidence.

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Hence, we need watch out for the trap of “cognitive dissonance”, and act with humility and radical self-honesty when confronting the lies we have been telling ourselves…lies that we’ve been living with for most of our lives. Oftentimes, issues like self-importance, social status, career, public image concerns, and what others think of us (should we dare to acknowledge information that goes literally against the status quo and what the masses believe) can inhibit the process of questioning the world as we know it. Truth is usually not good for business. It can also isolate us from friends and family, and create all kinds of strident opposition and personal attacks, which I have experienced myself.

Having said all that, there is definitely an “awakening” happening. I witness more and more people starting to see through the illusion of “appearances”, engaging in sincere self-work, and questioning official culture/history and consensus reality. I’ve seen an exponential rise in awareness – especially within the past few years – of the topics I’m going to address.
1. Are “we” all the same?

There is often this talk about “we” and the “human family”. But who are “we”, really, and are we truly all the same inside? Externally, we all share the same human body (regardless of gender, ethnicity, or color). However, internally, an individual’s “inner wiring” – with regards to experiencing emotions, compassion, empathy, love, having a conscience – is vastly different, and is dependent upon that individual’s expression of Being (soul embodiment).

While most humans have access (in varying degrees) to these qualities, they all require engagement in order to be developed consciously, which includes the working through of false beliefs, wounds, trauma and shadow aspects…facets of personality that we all have. Without true love, compassion, and empathy on an embodied level (defined as feeling, experiencing and living it) – and not just as an intellectual acknowledgment – any head-centric “solution” we try to impose on the world will fail, no matter how well meaning the intention (and lofty the ideal) may be.

To assume that we are all the same and that everyone has access to this higher love (or any form of love) is self-deceiving at best, and we can see those kind of assumptions being expressed in the oversimplified idea that “we are all one!”. This assumption is one of the big reasons why virtually any external revolution in human history has failed to bring about any fundamentally-positive benefit to the human species as a whole…the changes have, in fact, been merely superficial and fleeting.

We are all one, but we are not all the same. There seems to be some major blind spots and oversimplifications around the metaphysical idea of “we”. This has nothing to do with an “us vs. them” binary position, but rather, it involves understanding how complex humanity actually is – what we choose to believe in and wish for, and what we avoid looking at and confronting, both within and without.

The biggest illusion many people seem to have is the assumption that we all have the potential to awaken in this life time and have access to love, empathy, conscience and higher values. It is assumed that because we’re collectively connected and look like “humans”, we are all are “equal” and the same. Another assumption is that everyone who is not “aware” is just misguided and can be “fixed” or “healed”. While this is true for the majority of humans, it can also result in projecting one’s own higher qualities (conscience, emotional intelligence) onto others who don’t possess these “humane” qualities, especially people who hold positions of power.

There exists a type of human who has no connection to the higher centers of universal love/awareness by nature of a birth ‘defect’. He/she is simply not genetically wired to embody empathic kindness; while not being able to access these qualities in this lifetime, he/she still possesses the ability to emulate and mimic these higher characteristics quite well, and can even distract us from our personal evolution by sapping our energy and feeding off them.

This type of “human” is the psychopath (comprising about 6 % of humanity, most often found in positions of power), who is hiding behind a mask of sanity, creating misery and chaos which he/she “feeds of off”. It goes way beyond mere greed and the pursuit of power. Psychopaths have no neuro-biological capability to experience anything close to love, compassion and empathy.

It’s not a psychological disposition but a genetic one. This is a very misunderstood and ignored topic, especially since most psychopaths can appear as “normal” through their “mask of sanity“ deception. They are not necessarily criminals housed in prisons (nor the Hollywood version of the “crazy serial killer”), but can be CEO’s, politicians, spiritual leaders, husbands, wives, or the child or the neighbor next door. They can tell you exactly what you want to hear, and appear compassionate, empathetic and understanding…without meaning or feeling one bit of it. They’re also pathological liars who never feel any guilt or remorse.

Becoming aware of the topic of psychopathy and educating oneself and others about it is one of the most crucial and important actions we can undertake to make this world a better place. It’s one of the underlying reasons why our world is in the state it’s in: our governing systems are being designed by – and run by – psychopaths. It affects everyone, since our society has become “ponerized” (meaning that normal people – and society as a whole – have taken on pathological traits that are then seen as normal)…in other words, it is pathology normalized.

It ties in with the general atrophy of critical thinking skills, and thus the failure to recognize pathological individuals as they are. I’m not just talking about average mainstream public awareness, but especially with regards to spiritually-inclined people and “social justice warriors” who deny/ignore this topic (usually without having done any sincere research into it). It’s of no use to envision solutions and create new social systems that focus on environmental issues if this topic is not acknowledged and addressed, for the virus of psychopathy will destroy any conscious communities and utopian visions eventually. I’m not saying to avoid focusing on such solutions, but the illusion that ‘all humans are equal and the same’ needs to be shattered in order for true change to happen.

    “One phenomenon all ponerogenic groups and associations have in common is the fact that their members lose (or have already lost) the capacity to perceive pathological individuals as such, interpreting their behavior in fascinated, heroic, or melodramatic ways. When the habits of subconscious selection and substitution of thought-data spread to the macrosocial level, a society tends to develop contempt for factual criticism and to humiliate anyone sounding an alarm.”

    – Andrew M. Lobaczewski, Political Ponerology

    “Too many people hold the idea that psychopaths are essentially killers or convicts. The general public hasn’t been educated to see beyond the social stereotypes to understand that psychopaths can be entrepreneurs, politicians, CEOs and other successful individuals who may never see the inside of a prison….Psychopaths have what it takes to defraud and bilk others: They are fast-talking, charming, self-assured, at ease in social situations, cool under pressure, unfazed by the possibility of being found out, and totally ruthless. The psychopath can actually put themselves inside your skin intellectually, not emotionally. They can tell what you’re thinking, in a sense, they can look at your body language, they listen to what you’re saying, but what they don’t really do is feel what you feel. What this allows them to do is to use the words to manipulate and con and interact with you, without the baggage of this ‘I really feel your pain’ ”

    – Dr. Robert Hare, Without Conscience

More on that topic here:

    Psychopaths in Power – The Elephant in the Living Room

This is type of "guru" who puts together a lot of phrases and sentences which mean almost nothing. When he starts discussing psychopaths, it seems like he gets the facts wrong again. I doubt anyone knows what & of the general population is psychopathic, or whether it's purely genetic and deterministic like the author suggests. Dr. Robert Hare, who the author quotes, says 1% of the general population are psychopaths, not 6%.

Let's take a number in between - 3%. Of that 3%, some portion of those people will in fact be the isolated type of psychopath of may end up in prison. Certainly there are psychopaths in positions of power, like a CEO or politician. But the idea that ALL people in positions of power and influence are there because of psychopathic exploitation is pure rubbish. That is the idea this author is trying to peddle, so he is pure rubbish as well.

Quote
2. Government and Authoritarianism

Government is the most basic set up of what I call the Matrix Control System. It is entirely based on belief, no different than a religious belief. Government grants a few people rights and powers that the average person doesn’t have, and we gladly give our power away to authority in a blind show of faith that the powers that be will take care of us and make the best decisions for their citizens. For an overview of the dangers and illogical/illusory beliefs surrounding government/statism, I recommend watching this short video by Larken Rose: Statism: The Most Dangerous Religion .

The first step to truly heal the world (and the self) is to step into our own embodied sovereignty and stop giving our power away to authoritarian institutions, be they political, scientific, religious or spiritual in nature.

On the most basic level, you can only attain a personal expression of sovereign identity and true freedom if you don’t follow any external authority, nor let any external authority tell you what you should or shouldn’t do. By that definition, as long as we believe in government, we cannot be fully sovereign. In the final analysis, we are “citizens” of the earth, not of nations based on imaginary borders and illusory systems of government/national identification. No matter who is in charge or what system is being implemented, there has never been (nor will there ever be) a government that can bring true freedom to the individual/communities of individuals. Political systems and governments are not broken and don’t need “fixing” (as many people proclaim) – they are designed explicitly to be a means of social control/social engineering, and always have been.

It doesn’t matter what candidate or party or ‘system’ people support (left, right, middle, independent, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Green, Progressive, Liberal, Conservative…whatever). These are all labels of identification based on an illusory idea, creating more division and separation between us.

However, we’ve been living under these political systems and governments for so long that we don’t even question them anymore, but accept them like a franchised international Stockholm Syndrome network, idealizing them whilst not seeing reality for what it is. We are so conditioned and programmed that we don’t even question the need of having “government” to begin with. Most people are afraid of the “chaos” that they believe would ensue if there were no government or authority to ‘lead’ them/“maintain control”, which is ultimately rooted in the fear of true freedom, taking responsibility and claiming our individual power, creativity and sovereignty.

It also shows how removed people are from nature, the Divine and the feminine aspect of consciousness. The belief in government is based on the isolated male aspect of consciousness that needs to control through rules, regulations, and punishment (if you don’t obey); it is disconnected from – and (unconsciously) afraid of – the Feminine frequency. For example, when you vote, you are literally giving permission to be ruled/governed. From a metaphysical perspective, it also keeps you enslaved via a choice made of your own free will (trap of agreement), regardless of your good-hearted intentions. Voting is like changing the tapestry in a prison cell, without ever breaking out of the prison…or (for most voters) not even realizing that one is in a prison at all.

More on that topic here:

    Politics, Sovereignty, and Embodiment

What this guy ignores is one of the most fundamental realities - balance between social hierarchical structures (including government) and individual sovereignty. There is no humanity without both.

Quote
3. Hyperdimensional Realities

In my work I write and talk extensively about the Hyperdimensional Matrix Control System (HMCS), i.e. the non-physical occult (hidden) hostile forces and their mechanisms which aim to keep us spiritually asleep. To recap this phenomenon in a nutshell: humanity is not on the top of the “food chain”, and humanity is not in control of its sovereign decisions on a ‘macro’ scale. The idea of “free will” is, in many aspects, an illusion. Most of what we see on the world stage is manipulated and designed to create this “food” frequency of scarcity-fueled fear and reactivity (suffering, drama, fear, chaos, externally projected negative emotions (hate, anger, anxiety), worship, idolizing, superstition, wars, conflict on a global scale and via interpersonal fighting)…to keep humanity in a frequency prison, governed by forces who operate outside of our five-sensory perception.

We’ve been cut off from our full DNA potential (original genetic blueprint before “the Fall”), locked into limited five sensory perception, ego consciousness, physical survival mode and habitual indulgences, keeping us on a lower fear-based frequency and disconnected from the deeper wisdom of our bodies (our inner “technology”) and our divinity within, our own inner authority and emancipated selves.

These forces work through us/others (including through the elite/controllers on a 3-D level, whom they use as portals/puppets to carry out their agenda) and distract us by projecting the shadows of separation consciousness onto the wall/world stage (divide & conquer) and official culture. “Government” (or any belief in external authority) is also an “archonic” creation; the perfect foundation to keep people stuck in an endless loop of conflict with each other, ensuring that we remain disempowered so as to produce all the “loosh” they require to keep well-fed.

    “There are beings in the spiritual realms for whom anxiety and fear emanating from human beings offer welcome food. When humans have no anxiety and fear, then these creatures starve. People not yet sufficiently convinced of this statement could understand it to be meant comparatively only. But for those who are familiar with this phenomenon, it is a reality. If fear and anxiety radiates from people and they break out in panic, then these creatures find welcome nutrition and they become more and more powerful. These beings are hostile towards humanity.

    Everything that feeds on negative feelings, on anxiety, fear and superstition, despair or doubt, are in reality hostile forces in supersensible worlds, launching cruel attacks on human beings, while they are being fed. Therefore, it is above all necessary to begin with that the person who enters the spiritual world overcomes fear, feelings of helplessness, despair and anxiety. But these are exactly the feelings that belong to contemporary culture and materialism; because it estranges people from the spiritual world, it is especially suited to evoke hopelessness and fear of the unknown in people, thereby calling up the above mentioned hostile forces against them.”

    – Rudolf Steiner [Source (German): Rudolf Steiner – Die Erkenntnis der Seele und des Geistes – Berlin, 1907]

However, this is a “concept” that is really hard for most people to grasp and accept, and is most often ridiculed and laughed off as “sci-fi”, “conspiracy nonsense” or “mental/psychological delusion” because it’s so far out their conditioned beliefs and view of life (a perspective that is inserted into our minds by the same “force”).  And yet, despite the cynical skepticism, all of the ancient mystery schools, true shamanic insights, and esoteric teachings (much of which have been suppressed and/or distorted over thousands of years for obvious reasons) have conveyed this truth for ‘the ones with eyes to see and ears to hear’, using their own language and symbolism, be it “The General Law” (Esoteric Christianity), Archons (Gnostics), “Lords of Destiny” (Hermeticism), Predator/Fliers – “The topic of all topics” (Shamanism, Castaneda), “The Evil Magician” (Gurdjieff), The Shaitans (Sufism), The Jinn (Arabian mythology), Wetiko (Native American Spirituality), Occult Hostile Forces (Sri Aurobindo & The Mother, The Integral Yoga), etc.

It is not a “fairy tale” nor “superstition”. Our entire (modern) civilization is heavily influenced by this “force” – an “alien” construct, so to speak- which we have been led to accept as arising from “human nature”… a condition wherein pathology has become normalized.

This Knowledge won’t be brought to us via TED, Oprah, The NY Bestseller list, mainstream “science” – let alone any politician – anytime soon. This is a deep and complex topic which challenges virtually everything we’ve ever believed in with regards to our history and human origin. From personal experience, many people tend to ridicule/judge – or have an “opinion” about – this topic without ever having sincerely researched it …and have also avoided delving into the sincere esoteric self-work required in order to perceive these forces directly, to “see the unseen” beyond appearances.

    “[Look] at what happened in 1914 – or for that matter at all that is and has been happening in human history – the eye of the Yogin sees not only the outward events and persons and causes, but the enormous forces which precipitate them into action. If the men who fought were instruments in the hands of rulers and financiers, these in turn were mere puppets in the clutch of those hidden [hyperdimensional] forces.

    When one is habituated to see the things behind, one is no longer prone to be touched by the outward aspects – or to expect any remedy from political, institutional or social changes; the only way out is through the descent of an [embodied] consciousness which is not the puppet of these forces but is greater than they are.”

https://wakeup-world.com/2019/03/17/healing-the-self-healing-the-world-ruminations-about-humanity-and-awakening/

Again, this guy is greatly overestimating his diagnostic capacity. He is positing all kinds of vague pseudo-scientific hypotheses, and then acting like they are fundamental facts of reality and using them to tell us about the "real problem" humanity faces.

Thanks, AZ, but this is yet another swing and a miss for you.
Title: Re:Where's my goddamn' graduation ceremony ?
Post by: UnhingedBecauseLucid on March 19, 2019, 02:26:33 PM
Quote
Grape Dubs vaping oil (sativa).  86%.  Thirty bucks at the Have-A-Heart pot shop over by Allentown.  Three bucks off with wisdom discount.  It lasts a committed pilot of the inner realm about two days.  A lightweight could make it last a long time.

My steelworker lungs are hypothecated enough as it is ...but this almost seems reasonable ....  :-\ :P

Maybe I should just ask for 2 fukitol ... and a box of special brownies for my next graduation; whatever the next level is ...

 (https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSTo-iMYVgzu8DugL7h0_LuUrFG7I5aruEd1GKiwVCqTHix49blMw)
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on March 19, 2019, 02:49:01 PM
I forget what the next level is...maybe sous chef?  Keep coming back....




Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on March 19, 2019, 03:17:30 PM
I forget what the next level is...maybe sous chef?  Keep coming back....

No, Waitstaff is after Bussing.  Then Sous Chef, thren Master Chef.

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: azozeo on March 19, 2019, 03:34:25 PM
Ashvin,

Thanks for taking the time to add your philosophical spin to the authors perspective on the "NOW".... How things really are.


Title: Re: Where's my goddamn' graduation ceremony ?
Post by: UnhingedBecauseLucid on March 19, 2019, 03:46:55 PM
Quote
UBL 🦕 has found an Admin  :evil4: pal for life!

Birds  💵 🎩 of a feather flock together. Enjoy the music.

Well... ... thanks Pal.

Enjoy the music indeed...

http://www.youtube.com/v/zI4C7hMrnqo
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on March 19, 2019, 03:51:32 PM
If AG were a hobbit, his name would be Douche Baggins.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Surly1 on March 19, 2019, 05:01:52 PM
If AG were a hobbit, his name would be Douche Baggins.

And your name would be I Suck Jordan Peterson Cock. So what?

That is the most ad tom thing you have written here, and I would haver thought it beneath you had I not seen you steadily sink the more you post here.

Want to pick on someone? Pick on me.  I'm your huckleberry.

Trump has brought out the best of all the retrogrades.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on March 19, 2019, 08:17:22 PM
If AG were a hobbit, his name would be Douche Baggins.

And your name would be I Suck Jordan Peterson Cock. So what?

That is the most ad tom thing you have written here, and I would haver thought it beneath you had I not seen you steadily sink the more you post here.

Want to pick on someone? Pick on me.  I'm your huckleberry.

Trump has brought out the best of all the retrogrades.

Let me make a suggestion here.

The Diner is not up here to be a propaganda machine for a one-trick pony failed blogger turned Fundy Reactionary, and I suggest we leave Jordan Peterson behind here as too divisive in his politics and contrary to the goals and philosophy of the Doomstead Diner.  Watson can go try again in the Blogging Bizness and write a Daily Article on his Blog promoting JP there.

Let the rest of us return to the roots of the Doomstead Diner, which is to discuss COLLAPSE, not just mire down in political bickering.  There is plenty here to talk about in Economics, Energy, Climate, Science & Technology etc, etc etc to stay bizzy with.

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on March 19, 2019, 08:28:30 PM
If AG were a hobbit, his name would be Douche Baggins.

And your name would be I Suck Jordan Peterson Cock. So what?

That is the most ad tom thing you have written here, and I would haver thought it beneath you had I not seen you steadily sink the more you post here.

Want to pick on someone? Pick on me.  I'm your huckleberry.

Trump has brought out the best of all the retrogrades.

I have nothing to do with Trump, and you are welcome to go fuck yourself, you poor delusional asshole.

I told you once in a nice way that fucking with me was not something you really ought to do. I put up with AG's bullshit for a long time but I'm completely done with him....and I'll call him out for the self-righteous combative old loser he is, here or anywhere I want to.

With your health issues, you really ought to try to stay calm. I don't want to fight with you, but, on the other hand, I am tired of you misrepresenting nearly everything I say and implying that because I choose to question certain of your favorite narratives that it makes me a racist.

You wouldn't know a white supremacist from a white elephant. 

Right now, today, there is a fight in NYC about who should get into RE's old school, Stuyvesant. It was on NPR. You might have caught it.

Admission is based on a fairly rigorous test, and blacks are pissed because their kids can't pass it, and Asians are pissed because if they change the way they admit kids to favor blacks, that it will discriminate against their kids, who prep for years, and get in now with no problem.

It's a fucking joke.

I'm going to keep kicking your sacred cows squarely in the ass. Get used to it. What you believe is your business. But if it's bullshit, I'm going to make it my business to mention that it is.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on March 19, 2019, 08:42:50 PM
If AG were a hobbit, his name would be Douche Baggins.

And your name would be I Suck Jordan Peterson Cock. So what?

That is the most ad tom thing you have written here, and I would haver thought it beneath you had I not seen you steadily sink the more you post here.

Want to pick on someone? Pick on me.  I'm your huckleberry.

Trump has brought out the best of all the retrogrades.

Let me make a suggestion here.

The Diner is not up here to be a propaganda machine for a one-trick pony failed blogger turned Fundy Reactionary, and I suggest we leave Jordan Peterson behind here as too divisive in his politics and contrary to the goals and philosophy of the Doomstead Diner.  Watson can go try again in the Blogging Bizness and write a Daily Article on his Blog promoting JP there.

Let the rest of us return to the roots of the Doomstead Diner, which is to discuss COLLAPSE, not just mire down in political bickering.  There is plenty here to talk about in Economics, Energy, Climate, Science & Technology etc, etc etc to stay bizzy with.

RE

Seems like you and Surly are the ones mentioning JP the most around here lately. I don't recall saying a damn thing about him.

What I'm tired of is being disrespected by stupid people.  Be respectful to me and my POV, or ban me, or just shut the fuck up...I don't care.

 I won't roll over because you don't happen to agree with me. And if you call me names, like "white supremacist" (which I'm not) or a racist (which I'm not), or you want to tell me what to think, then I'm going fuck with you until you are very sorry you did. I'm not some lightweight, and I'm pissed off, in case you haven't noticed.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on March 19, 2019, 08:58:12 PM
Right now, today, there is a fight in NYC about who should get into RE's old school, Stuyvesant. It was on NPR. You might have caught it.

No, I was Bizzy all day with KH.  We're on to the biggest project, getting the "storage room" which is the bedroom of this one-bedroom apartment cleared out and useful again for something besides just storing Preps.

Got a Link for the Stuyvesant article?

BTW, they were jiggering the test scores by race even back in my day.  White guys still got in, you just had to kick the living shit out of the test. lol.

Insofar as fighting goes, nobody is getting in a fist fight over fiber optic cable, so threats of this type are utterly meaningles and serve to do nothing except enflame emotions.  Totally pointless exercise.

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on March 19, 2019, 09:04:31 PM
If AG were a hobbit, his name would be Douche Baggins.

And your name would be I Suck Jordan Peterson Cock. So what?

That is the most ad tom thing you have written here, and I would haver thought it beneath you had I not seen you steadily sink the more you post here.

Want to pick on someone? Pick on me.  I'm your huckleberry.

Trump has brought out the best of all the retrogrades.

Let me make a suggestion here.

The Diner is not up here to be a propaganda machine for a one-trick pony failed blogger turned Fundy Reactionary, and I suggest we leave Jordan Peterson behind here as too divisive in his politics and contrary to the goals and philosophy of the Doomstead Diner.  Watson can go try again in the Blogging Bizness and write a Daily Article on his Blog promoting JP there.

Let the rest of us return to the roots of the Doomstead Diner, which is to discuss COLLAPSE, not just mire down in political bickering.  There is plenty here to talk about in Economics, Energy, Climate, Science & Technology etc, etc etc to stay bizzy with.

RE

Seems like you and Surly are the ones mentioning JP the most around here lately. I don't recall saying a damn thing about him.

What I'm tired of is being disrespected by stupid people.  Be respectful to me and my POV, or ban me, or just shut the fuck up...I don't care.

 I won't roll over because you don't happen to agree with me. And if you call me names, like "white supremacist" (which I'm not) or a racist (which I'm not), or you want to tell me what to think, then I'm going fuck with you until you are very sorry you did. I'm not some lightweight, and I'm pissed off, in case you haven't noticed.

The most recent JP vid was dropped on by Watson yesterday.  I didn't say you brought him up recently.

I already told you I won't ban you.  If you choose to quit, this is your choice.  Constantly pitching Ad Hom though is certainly not helping you deliver your message, whatever it is.  I have never called you a "White Supremacist" either, so why do you pitch these strawmen at me that I am forced to respond to?  You leave in the reader's minds that I think you are a white supremacist, which I don't.  This is a very low tactic.  I also never called you a racist.  These are flat out lies.

Dial back a notch there Eddie.  Take a chill pill.

RE
Title: Re: Where's my goddamn' graduation ceremony ?
Post by: K-Dog on March 20, 2019, 12:26:46 AM
Quote
UBL 🦕 has found an Admin  :evil4: pal for life!

Birds  💵 🎩 of a feather flock together. Enjoy the music.

Well... ... thanks Pal.

Enjoy the music indeed...

http://www.youtube.com/v/zI4C7hMrnqo

Most excellent and the right medicine to take after encountering the RE, Eddie & Ashvin three way.

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9b/Gamesters_of_triskelion_small.png&f=1)

For the record:

Jordan Peterson is a super educator and psychologist.  He has many fine opinions and is an asset to the earth as many men are.  Many men are not assets and he is most definitely of the asset category.  That said he is a mortal Joe and in many ways a bit average.  Consequently a subset of his ideas reek a little.  Average men have a screw loose here and there.  So it goes.  That said he has a few less loose screws than average.

We should all clean our room.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Surly1 on March 20, 2019, 02:15:06 AM
If AG were a hobbit, his name would be Douche Baggins.

And your name would be I Suck Jordan Peterson Cock. So what?

That is the most ad tom thing you have written here, and I would haver thought it beneath you had I not seen you steadily sink the more you post here.

Want to pick on someone? Pick on me.  I'm your huckleberry.

Trump has brought out the best of all the retrogrades.

I have nothing to do with Trump, and you are welcome to go fuck yourself, you poor delusional asshole.

Never said you did. Try reading for comprehension, fuckstick. What I said was Trump's utter lack of decency has shown the rest of those who share his views permission to give voice to their inner troll. Congratulations! Trumpkin or not, you've earned your red hat.

I told you once in a nice way that fucking with me was not something you really ought to do. I put up with AG's bullshit for a long time but I'm completely done with him....and I'll call him out for the self-righteous combative old loser he is, here or anywhere I want to.

No, Eddie, that "nice way" was a veiled threat that I saw through the moment you uttered it. I piss on your threat. I reject it with utter contempt.

With your health issues, you really ought to try to stay calm. I don't want to fight with you, but, on the other hand, I am tired of you misrepresenting nearly everything I say and implying that because I choose to question certain of your favorite narratives that it makes me a racist.

Gee, if you don't want to be made out a racist, maybe you should stop giving voice to racist shit. It wasn't me who said the other day that the assertion "diversity makes his stronger" was a liberal myth. That sentiment, so believed by the drooling right, is a complete reversal of the founding principles of this country, and as I pointed out at the time, contrary to what we taught in elementary schools fifty years ago. Thus has the conservative project to unmoor this country formats (officially stated) principles become even more complete.

And you worry about your own health issues, and I'll worry about mine.

You wouldn't know a white supremacist from a white elephant. 

I guess you missed my latest article. No matter: white supremacists announce themselves regularly. As we see.

I'm going to keep kicking your sacred cows squarely in the ass. Get used to it.

I don't think so. Here's what you need to get used to: having your nonsense shoved up you nose. You have already demonstrated yourself incapable of judging what "bullshit" is. Count on me to challenge every one of your retrograde assertions with vigor.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on March 20, 2019, 04:47:34 AM
If AG were a hobbit, his name would be Douche Baggins.

And your name would be I Suck Jordan Peterson Cock. So what?

That is the most ad tom thing you have written here, and I would haver thought it beneath you had I not seen you steadily sink the more you post here.

Want to pick on someone? Pick on me.  I'm your huckleberry.

Trump has brought out the best of all the retrogrades.

Let me make a suggestion here.

The Diner is not up here to be a propaganda machine for a one-trick pony failed blogger turned Fundy Reactionary, and I suggest we leave Jordan Peterson behind here as too divisive in his politics and contrary to the goals and philosophy of the Doomstead Diner.  Watson can go try again in the Blogging Bizness and write a Daily Article on his Blog promoting JP there.

Let the rest of us return to the roots of the Doomstead Diner, which is to discuss COLLAPSE, not just mire down in political bickering.  There is plenty here to talk about in Economics, Energy, Climate, Science & Technology etc, etc etc to stay bizzy with.

RE

Surly first brought up JP with his cut and paste Ezra Klein article, and of course you chimed in with "great find!" or something similar. Your pretense at being objective here is laughable. You just happen to be playing good cop to Surly's bad at the moment, but you both are only interested in making BS accusations against anyone who disagrees with your socialist spin. All of your collapse talk is tainted by this political spin and you both know it.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on March 20, 2019, 05:47:22 AM
Gee, if you don't want to be made out a racist, maybe you should stop giving voice to racist shit.

There you go again. My contention, which I can defend rationally until well after you're dead ,is that my criticism of stupid racial policy doesn't make me a racist. Of course those who benefit the most from these failed policies defend them. I expect that.

The curious thing is how they get fools like you to carry their water for them. You're a useful idiot for people who'd like to tax you for being white. Why should I support that? It makes no CFS at all.

Poor Dad, tell me one more time how white privilege was how I escaped the trailer park. That's a funny story. I laugh my ass off every time you tell it.

Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Surly1 on March 20, 2019, 06:13:59 AM
Gee, if you don't want to be made out a racist, maybe you should stop giving voice to racist shit.

There you go again. My contention, which I can defend rationally until well after you're dead ,is that my criticism of stupid racial policy doesn't make me a racist. Of course those who benefit the most from these failed policies defend them. I expect that.

The curious thing is how they get fools like you to carry their water for them. You're a useful idiot for people who'd like to tax you for being white. Why should I support that? It makes no CFS at all.

Poor Dad, tell me one more time how white privilege was how I escaped the trailer park. That's a funny story. I laugh my ass off every time you tell it.

I gave you a specific example in my last post, which you ignored like the water-carrying fool you are.
Keep posting right wing claptrap, then argue how you're not a right winger. No one here who can read without moving their lips is buying,.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on March 20, 2019, 06:47:05 AM
Your pretense at being objective here is laughable.

I never made any pretemse at being "objective".  It is your suggestion that I intended to be objective that is laughable.  I am a Gonzo Journalist, that is all I ever claimed to be.  From Wikipedia:

Gonzo journalism is a style of journalism that is written without claims of objectivity, often including the reporter as part of the story via a first-person narrative.
...
Gonzo journalism involves an approach to accuracy that concerns the reporting of personal experiences and emotions, in contrast to traditional journalism, which favors a detached style and relies on facts or quotations that can be verified by third parties. Gonzo journalism disregards the strictly-edited product favored by newspaper media and strives for a more personal approach; the personality of a piece is as important as the event or actual subject of the piece. Use of sarcasm, humor, exaggeration, and profanity is common.


Further complaints on this issue will be deleted.  Have a nice day.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bb/0c/1e/bb0c1e5cfb7420d9609383e52abc073e.png)

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on March 20, 2019, 06:50:35 AM
Gee, if you don't want to be made out a racist, maybe you should stop giving voice to racist shit.

There you go again. My contention, which I can defend rationally until well after you're dead ,is that my criticism of stupid racial policy doesn't make me a racist. Of course those who benefit the most from these failed policies defend them. I expect that.

The curious thing is how they get fools like you to carry their water for them. You're a useful idiot for people who'd like to tax you for being white. Why should I support that? It makes no CFS at all.

Poor Dad, tell me one more time how white privilege was how I escaped the trailer park. That's a funny story. I laugh my ass off every time you tell it.

I gave you a specific example in my last post, which you ignored like the water-carrying fool you are.
Keep posting right wing claptrap, then argue how you're not a right winger. No one here who can read without moving their lips is buying,.

Yes, white supremacism exist. What you completely miss is that people like you, working so hard to perpetuate your mythos of equality by legislation, have driven a large segment of angry people directly into the arms of white supremacists and fascists and just about anybody else who will take their legitimate complaints seriously. Trump for instance.
 
You are part of the problem, not part of the solution, as you would like to pretend.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: K-Dog on March 20, 2019, 08:27:21 AM
I think we've got a 3 three four or five way marriage going on.  Not sure about the number but the the lack of respect shows divorce is in the air.

I think we call all agree that 'racist' being bantered between Diners is inappropriate.  Considering we are all old white farts screaming that epithet at each other makes about as much sense as the wife in a mixed marriage calling her husband a racist.  WTF

Please remember.  Mary Poppins spoon full of sugar makes the medicine go down dimwits want to call us strange and deluded any chance they get.  Actors will be showing up and getting in arguments with other Diners will be their sole agenda!  That that analysis may not apply in the present circumstances but our code of conduct to prevent playing that game still applies.  We can't have it both ways. 

I think Doom should pardon the pun, TRUMP politics here.  As Diners we don't have to buy into the left/right politics of ignorance and narrow minds.  We can define ourselves in terms of the reality of doom.  Our Phosphorus is going!  I'm a Diner because the science says that is the appropriate frame of view not because I have a particular personality or need to be weird.  Some people do pick an ideology because it 'fits' them.  I am not one of those.

In the case of Jordan Peterson we should be looking at his ideas and asking if his spin on 'patriarchy' has any value in the reality of Doom.  Falling into the stupid left /right debate about JP is a disappointment and I'm not liking to see it.  His ideas from a doom perspective do have some merit though he has a mainstream ignorance of doom itself.

The left assumes that resources are bottomless and the world can support an infinite variety of sexual orientations.  It can't.  Fuck the Left.  The left in particular has a problem with JP because many people who identify with the left do not do so for any ideological reasons whatever.  They identify with the left because the left can represent their anything goes nothing matters, more for me points, of view hidden behind a shield of equality and social progress.  JP says there are rules to the game and the 'left' does not want to hear it.

Yet the right assumes that god has ordained existing arrangements and that this is the best that can be done.  Fuck the right and fuck their god.  There is nothing ordained about the current arrangements except that this is what stupid people do.  We need to keep the good parts but throw away the rest.

Concerning JP and the reaction against him.  I'm weary of the term 'patriarchy' being applied to men such as myself who have worked hard to get where they are in life and actually have what they have because they worked for it and made wise choices at least a little bit.  Men who chose to educate themselves and who earned trust by their actions and by showing up for work. 

Seems some, unwilling to do the time to earn goodies in life think the American cornucopia should just give them free stuff.  They apparently don't know the planet is finite but free riders can't very well criticize other free riders so they choose success as their target instead of themselves.  Passing the buck.  It is what humans do.  What we should be doing is all be doing our part to make a better whole and not be worrying so much about individual slices of pie.

Politics and doom are connected.  No question about that.  Not getting lost in the politics and keeping the reality of doom as the primary perspective should be how we do things here.  Detractors have and will try and exploit the connection for their own ends.  Don't fall for it.

Ashvin took you guys hook line and sinker.

Appropriate equality is a goal of a committed Doomer.  Why? To all you dufi who don't get it.  For the simple reason resources are finite!  The only argument is about what is appropriate.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on March 20, 2019, 09:14:03 AM
I think we've got a 3 three four or five way marriage going on.  Not sure about the number but the the lack of respect shows divorce is in the air.


Divorce is unnecessary.  This Patriarch has taken over the show.  There is no marriage here.  I am a Single Father with a bunch of misbehaving children.  I can throw you out of the house or you can run away from home, but you can't divorce me. lol.

Quote
I think we call all agree that 'racist' being bantered between Diners is inappropriate.  Considering we are all old white farts screaming that epithet at each other makes about as much sense as the wife in a mixed marriage calling her husband racist.  WTF

Calling another Diner a "racist" is an Ad Hom, and out of bounds.  You can of course call anyone who is not a Diner racist.  You can also say that a particular Diner's POV is in agreement with the racist policies fo some non-Diner Nazi.  This is a judgement call on my part.  My decisions on the matter are irrevocable and not subject to discussion

Quote
Please remember.  Mary Poppins spoon full of sugar makes the medicine go down dimwits want to call us strange and deluded any chance they get.  Actors will be showing up and getting in arguments with other Diners will be their sole agenda!  That that analysis may not apply in the present circumstances but our code of conduct to prevent playing that game still applies.  We can't have it both ways.

REAL Vermont Maple Syrup works GREAT also!  Did great work on my Citrus Salmon (Cooking Zone recipe up next weekend).

Quote
I think Doom should pardon the pun, TRUMP politics here.  As Diners we don't have to buy into the left/right politics of ignorance and narrow minds.  We can define ourselves in terms of the reality of doom.  Our Phosphorus is going.  I'm a Diner because the science says that is the appropriate frame of view not because I have a particular personality or need to be weird.  Some people do pick an ideology because it 'fits' them.  I am not one of those.

Collapse is the main topic of the Diner, not politics.  I already made that clear.  Diners who bog down in political distractions will see their posts disappearing to the Great Beyond.

Quote
In the case of Jordan Peterson we should be looking at his ideas and asking if his spin on 'patriarchy' has any value in the reality of Doom.  Falling into the stupid left /right debate about JP is a disappointment and I'm not liking to see it.  His ideas from a doom perspective do have some merit.

Feel free to discuss JP all you like.  Just no videos.

Quote
The left assumes that resources are bottomless and the world can support an infinite variety of sexual orientations.  It can't.  Fuck the Left.  The left in particular has a problem with JP because many people who identify with the left do not do so for any ideological reasons whatever.  They identify with the left because the left can represent their anything goes nothing matters, more for me points, of view hidden behind a shield of equality and social progress.

What Left is that?  I am unfamiliar with any such "left".  It's also incorrect to say the "left" assumes all resources are bottomless.  Just the opposite is true.  I am further left than Che fucking Guevara and I sure don't assume infinite resources.

Quote
The right assumes that god has ordained existing arrangements and that this is the best that can be done.  Fuck the right and fuck their god.  There is nothing ordained about the current arrangements except that this is what stupid people do.

Generally speaking, true.

Quote
Concerning JP and the reaction against him.  I'm weary of the term 'patriarchy' being applied to men such as myself who have worked hard to get where they are in life and actually have what they have because they worked for it and made wise choices at least a little bit.  Men who chose to educate themselves and who earned trust by their actions.

"Patriarchy" is a very loaded word and gets bandied about all the time by "sensitive" guys like Dr. McStinksion, who is mainly interested in getting as much tail as he can before we all go extinct.

Quote
Seems some, unwilling to do the time to earn goodies in life think the American cornucopia should just give them free stuff.  They apparently don't know the planet is finite but free riders can't very well criticize other free riders so they choose success as their target instead of themselves.  Passing the buck.  It is what humans do.  What we should be doing is all be doing our part to make a better whole and not be worrying so much about individual slices of pie.

When you don't have enough pie to eat, it's hard not to worry about it.  Much easier for people who have plenty of pie to wax philosophical on this subject.

Quote
Politics and doom are connected.  No question about that.  Not getting lost in the politics and keeping the reality of doom as the primary perspective should be how we do things here.  Detractors have and will try and exploit the connection for their own ends.  Don't fall for it.

A restatement of the fact that the primary purpose of the Diner is to educate on COLLAPSE.  Politics is part of collapse of course, but it's not the whole fucking ballgame, as it seems to have become lately.  I am putting a stop to that.  Non-negotiable, don't bother complaining, I will just pitch another post to the Great Beyond.  Unlike some ex-Admins, I got no problems at all doing this as necessary.

Quote
Ashvin took you guys hook line and sinker.

Not me,  I'm the Big Fish he can't hook.   ;D

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Surly1 on March 20, 2019, 09:16:37 AM
I think we've got a 3 three four or five way marriage going on.  Not sure about the number but the the lack of respect shows divorce is in the air.

I think we call all agree that 'racist' being bantered between Diners is inappropriate.  Considering we are all old white farts screaming that epithet at each other makes about as much sense as the wife in a mixed marriage calling her husband a racist.  WTF
So no white people should call out racism where they see it? Or they should just not do it HERE?
One of the remarkable and readily demonstrable things about white privilege is that it REALLY resents having its name said aloud.

Please remember.  Mary Poppins spoon full of sugar makes the medicine go down dimwits want to call us strange and deluded any chance they get.  Actors will be showing up and getting in arguments with other Diners will be their sole agenda!  That that analysis may not apply in the present circumstances but our code of conduct to prevent playing that game still applies.  We can't have it both ways. 

Their names are on the Diner Wall of Shame, even before you came along. Divide and conquer always works.

I think Doom should pardon the pun, TRUMP politics here.  As Diners we don't have to buy into the left/right politics of ignorance and narrow minds.  We can define ourselves in terms of the reality of doom.  Our Phosphorus is going.  I'm a Diner because the science says that is the appropriate frame of view not because I have a particular personality or need to be weird.  Some people do pick an ideology because it 'fits' them.  I am not one of those.

In the case of Jordan Peterson we should be looking at his ideas and asking if his spin on 'patriarchy' has any value in the reality of Doom.  Falling into the stupid left /right debate about JP is a disappointment and I'm not liking to see it.  His ideas from a doom perspective do have some merit.

You do it. IN one way, JP reminds me of Ron Paul: you can listen along to a line of argument, and find yourself nodding in agreement, and THEN! he says something utterly outrageous and reason-beggaring. I won't be nuzzling JP's nutsack like others here anytime soon.

The left assumes that resources are bottomless and the world can support an infinite variety of sexual orientations.  It can't.  Fuck the Left.  The left in particular has a problem with JP because many people who identify with the left do not do so for any ideological reasons whatever.  They identify with the left because the left can represent their anything goes nothing matters, more for me points, of view hidden behind a shield of equality and social progress.  JP says there are rules to the game and the 'left' does not want to hear it.

Yet the right assumes that god has ordained existing arrangements and that this is the best that can be done.  Fuck the right and fuck their god.  There is nothing ordained about the current arrangements except that this is what stupid people do.

Concerning JP and the reaction against him.  I'm weary of the term 'patriarchy' being applied to men such as myself who have worked hard to get where they are in life and actually have what they have because they worked for it and made wise choices at least a little bit.  Men who chose to educate themselves and who earned trust by their actions and by showing up for work. 

Certainly a lot of silliness on the left in terms of gender. I would think we'll run out of disposable cash for gender reassignment surgery in about ten minutes. This goes directly to your argument about resources, and lack of them.

Seems some, unwilling to do the time to earn goodies in life think the American cornucopia should just give them free stuff.  They apparently don't know the planet is finite but free riders can't very well criticize other free riders so they choose success as their target instead of themselves.  Passing the buck.  It is what humans do.  What we should be doing is all be doing our part to make a better whole and not be worrying so much about individual slices of pie.

And not a peep about income inequality, governmental capture by the rich, or justice. And THIS is why you can't divorce politics from any discussion of dom, because ultimately it's about the direction and allocation of resources. And the so-called "left" has ben taking it in the chops for the last fifty years. The victory of the counter-revolution against the New Deal, lavishly funded by the Right and abetted by eager volunteers and assorted acolytes, is almost complete.

Politics and doom are connected.  No question about that.  Not getting lost in the politics and keeping the reality of doom as the primary perspective should be how we do things here.  Detractors have and will try and exploit the connection for their own ends.  Don't fall for it.

Ashvin took you guys hook line and sinker.
He certainly made the most of his opportunities.

Appropriate equality is a goal of a committed Doomer.  Why? To all you dufi who don't get it.  For the simple reason resources are finite!  The only argument is about what is appropriate.
[/quote]

Very good comments. Except that you wholly and enthusiastically view it through the frame offered by the right. I can assure you I don't find myself in your definition. I think more about the lines of "E pluribus Unum," which as radical as a prayer breakfast, but has become hate speech by a galvanized right.

Am absolutely not buying the false equivalency of "both sides." only one side has been punching down, ratfucking elections and fighting dirty in my adult life. The fascist playbook has been written by history several times. The US is following it to the letter.

Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Surly1 on March 20, 2019, 09:40:34 AM

Yes, white supremacism exist. What you completely miss is that people like you, working so hard to perpetuate your mythos of equality by legislation, have driven a large segment of angry people directly into the arms of white supremacists and fascists and just about anybody else who will take their legitimate complaints seriously. Trump for instance.
 
You are part of the problem, not part of the solution, as you would like to pretend.

You could be right. Yet I find myself wondering what an alternative might be. To sit silently, benefit from the blessings of white male old-farthood, and not speak out against the summary execution of black citizens by white cops?

To just accept the fact that the Klan and its auxiliaries are resurgent and given succor by Twitler in the White House? That mass murderers now call him out by name as their lodestar? Just shrug and say, "not my problem?"

That would be tough for me. Ultimately, it's unfair.

Where all this ties together, for me at least, is that the conflict between the founding principles and body of law in the US and its actual practice is being stretched thin at a time of limited resources, the availability of which is made worse by conscious strategies of income inequality and political immiseration. (Again, why politics matters.) The social struggles we see now are a result of traditionally oppressed tides of people wanting more pie. And those who make the pies want to keep them or sell them only at a price that is increasingly unaffordable.

Conservatives always go all "free shit army" when such discussions come up. Which is a mistake. The fact is that most people want to work, earn, provide for their family, and otherwise get along in their lives with an even chance of success. Most of the people who I've met in my life would willingly bet on their own number to succeed.

I could go on, but what's the point...
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Eddie on March 20, 2019, 10:56:17 AM

Yes, white supremacism exist. What you completely miss is that people like you, working so hard to perpetuate your mythos of equality by legislation, have driven a large segment of angry people directly into the arms of white supremacists and fascists and just about anybody else who will take their legitimate complaints seriously. Trump for instance.
 
You are part of the problem, not part of the solution, as you would like to pretend.

You could be right. Yet I find myself wondering what an alternative might be. To sit silently, benefit from the blessings of white male old-farthood, and not speak out against the summary execution of black citizens by white cops?

To just accept the fact that the Klan and its auxiliaries are resurgent and given succor by Twitler in the White House? That mass murderers now call him out by name as their lodestar? Just shrug and say, "not my problem?"

That would be tough for me. Ultimately, it's unfair.

Where all this ties together, for me at least, is that the conflict between the founding principles and body of law in the US and its actual practice is being stretched thin at a time of limited resources, the availability of which is made worse by conscious strategies of income inequality and political immiseration. (Again, why politics matters.) The social struggles we see now are a result of traditionally oppressed tides of people wanting more pie. And those who make the pies want to keep them or sell them only at a price that is increasingly unaffordable.

Conservatives always go all "free shit army" when such discussions come up. Which is a mistake. The fact is that most people want to work, earn, provide for their family, and otherwise get along in their lives with an even chance of success. Most of the people who I've met in my life would willingly bet on their own number to succeed.

I could go on, but what's the point...

Look, all I'm looking for here is acknowledgment that I have a reasonable POV. What you just said makes me feel like we still have some common  ground. Thank you.

Had I gotten that from AG I wouldn't be trolling him..but he trolls me now, and I'm going to make him sorry, or at least try. He has no ability to see anything except his own POV. My ad  hom, the one you went off on me for, was in response to a passive aggressive poke at me he took a couple of comments above mine.

On the issue of police violence against black men, I have two things to say. One is that I think those who point out that the MSM media stirs up racial tension by highly publicizing every black-shot-by-cop now (while never saying a word about whites-shot-by-cop) have a valid point.

It's because of ratings I think and not some conspiracy, but it has negative consequences.

The second part of what I'd like to say is that claims that blacks are SO much more likely to encounter police violence than whites comes from some cherry-picked data.

It is true that blacks get death-by-cop about 2.5X times more often than whites, when apples are measured against apples. But actually there is good evidence that if you look at OIS's (officer involved shootings) in general....... (and I'm talking apples to apples, adjusted for the difference in population demographics),  blacks are significantly LESS likely to be shot at AT ALL than whites.

This is a study from Harvard, not from the Guardian.

https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/fryer/files/fryer_police_aer.pdf

This doesn't sell newspapers, unfortunately. And I know you can find some study that will try to show this is wrong. Don't bother. My only point is that old white fart bias is not the only thing in play here. People, including you, are emotionally touched by injustice. Injustice sells newspapers like hotcakes. It also causes riots. It causes young white people to feel very guilty, too, and up-in-arms against their own tribe.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on March 20, 2019, 11:31:40 AM
]In the case of Jordan Peterson we should be looking at his ideas and asking if his spin on 'patriarchy' has any value in the reality of Doom.  Falling into the stupid left /right debate about JP is a disappointment and I'm not liking to see it.  His ideas from a doom perspective do have some merit though he has a mainstream ignorance of doom itself.

Alright, how about you first? What exactly is his "spin on patriarchy"?

Quote
The left assumes that resources are bottomless and the world can support an infinite variety of sexual orientations.  It can't.  Fuck the Left.  The left in particular has a problem with JP because many people who identify with the left do not do so for any ideological reasons whatever.  They identify with the left because the left can represent their anything goes nothing matters, more for me points, of view hidden behind a shield of equality and social progress.  JP says there are rules to the game and the 'left' does not want to hear it.

Yet the right assumes that god has ordained existing arrangements and that this is the best that can be done.  Fuck the right and fuck their god.  There is nothing ordained about the current arrangements except that this is what stupid people do.  We need to keep the good parts but throw away the rest.

Concerning JP and the reaction against him.  I'm weary of the term 'patriarchy' being applied to men such as myself who have worked hard to get where they are in life and actually have what they have because they worked for it and made wise choices at least a little bit.  Men who chose to educate themselves and who earned trust by their actions and by showing up for work. 

Seems some, unwilling to do the time to earn goodies in life think the American cornucopia should just give them free stuff.  They apparently don't know the planet is finite but free riders can't very well criticize other free riders so they choose success as their target instead of themselves.  Passing the buck.  It is what humans do.  What we should be doing is all be doing our part to make a better whole and not be worrying so much about individual slices of pie.

Apparently your ideas about politics are all connected to material resources or the lack of them, as if that's the only thing driving all aspects of human social organization throughout our history. You may think JP has a "mainstream view of doom" because he directly challenges this materialist view. Religion and mythology speak to a deeper understanding of human nature and human social interaction. It's not ALL a fight over land or energy.

Quote
Politics and doom are connected.  No question about that.  Not getting lost in the politics and keeping the reality of doom as the primary perspective should be how we do things here.  Detractors have and will try and exploit the connection for their own ends.  Don't fall for it.

Ashvin took you guys hook line and sinker.

I'd rather discuss philosophy or religion, but if you want to talk about collapse/doom, anyway you define it, there is no escaping politics. Maybe there's a reason why these topics get so much attention. While everyone tries to act like they are defending their honor here and would rather be focusing their energy on writing about doom prepping or whatever, their actions betray their actual desires. This is stuff people want to think about because it affects them immediately and personally.

Quote
Appropriate equality is a goal of a committed Doomer.  Why? To all you dufi who don't get it.  For the simple reason resources are finite!  The only argument is about what is appropriate.

That's like saying "existence is a goal of most humans, the only argument is why do we exist". That's a HUGE argument. And when it comes to 'appropriate equality', the argument will inevitably be political. Hundreds of millions of lives have been lost while people try to work that one out.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on March 20, 2019, 11:43:05 AM

Yes, white supremacism exist. What you completely miss is that people like you, working so hard to perpetuate your mythos of equality by legislation, have driven a large segment of angry people directly into the arms of white supremacists and fascists and just about anybody else who will take their legitimate complaints seriously. Trump for instance.
 
You are part of the problem, not part of the solution, as you would like to pretend.

You could be right. Yet I find myself wondering what an alternative might be. To sit silently, benefit from the blessings of white male old-farthood, and not speak out against the summary execution of black citizens by white cops?

To just accept the fact that the Klan and its auxiliaries are resurgent and given succor by Twitler in the White House? That mass murderers now call him out by name as their lodestar? Just shrug and say, "not my problem?"

That would be tough for me. Ultimately, it's unfair.

I just have to say, this is what JP always points out when he discusses left-right political issues. Without fail, he will talk about how the LEFT has very valid points when it comes to inequality and unfairness generated by hierarchical institutions over time. He may spend a good 5-10 minutes discussing why the left has a valid perspective on these issues.

It's only after that when he would take to task the idea that there is "summary execution of black citizens by white cops". Regardless of the statistical data, which Eddie pointed out is never as simple as the media portrays it to be, such a statement is identity politics, pure and simple. It serves no other purpose than to inflame tensions between two groups of people based on their race, while also implying all individuals within those groups ("black citizens" and "white cops") are homogeneous.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: knarf on March 20, 2019, 12:33:50 PM
I came back to the Diner, because every other forum I examined, always became some political conflict. When then MSM is posting that the Arctic ice caps are melting 3 times faster that THEY  thought. We could see an ice free September in 1 -5 years. People all over the world are really beginning to suffer because of major climate events, and the reaction of Governments to continue on with fossil fuels, or completely change the way they operate. The American Empire is crumbling, our society is clueless on what to do to really fix the mess we have made . I thought maybe you all cared more about that stuff, than politics and cooking. Like I said AZ posted the message that summed up in a very astute manner the worlds predicament.
  Everything I post is about this collapse we are in. You might not see it immediately, but it will get to you sooner or latter. I am some what disappointed in the atmosphere the dinner has taken on. In this place I thought we shoved each other in the shoulder, sat back down, and had another drink together.
  There IS so much going on right now about Collapse that I am staying to post these news stories, and throw in some randomness.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on March 20, 2019, 01:10:18 PM
  There IS so much going on right now about Collapse that I am staying to post these news stories, and throw in some randomness.

It is a Bizzy Time in Collapse, no doubt there.

EVERY forum of ANY type is always ground for conflict.  It's the nature of the beast.  No worries though, nobody is more experienced with this sorta shit than me, and I took back what I gave away in the interest of being "Democratic".  Like Free Speech, it only works as long as everyone is buying into the same etiquette.  That unfortunately never happens.  However, we did last 7 years this way, only made two before we had to pitch the unrestricted Free Speech idea to the Great Beyond.  So I consider that a success overall.

Now though, ZEUS is BACK.   :icon_sunny:  Don't fuck with me or fuck with the Doomstead Diner.  This is my baby, and I WILL protect and defend it until I am pushing up daisies.

Your contributions are of course always :hi: Knarf.  You are unfailingly polite.  :icon_sunny:

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: azozeo on March 20, 2019, 01:25:44 PM
If AG were a hobbit, his name would be Douche Baggins.

And your name would be I Suck Jordan Peterson Cock. So what?

That is the most ad tom thing you have written here, and I would haver thought it beneath you had I not seen you steadily sink the more you post here.

Want to pick on someone? Pick on me.  I'm your huckleberry.

Trump has brought out the best of all the retrogrades.

Let me make a suggestion here.

The Diner is not up here to be a propaganda machine for a one-trick pony failed blogger turned Fundy Reactionary, and I suggest we leave Jordan Peterson behind here as too divisive in his politics and contrary to the goals and philosophy of the Doomstead Diner.  Watson can go try again in the Blogging Bizness and write a Daily Article on his Blog promoting JP there.

Let the rest of us return to the roots of the Doomstead Diner, which is to discuss COLLAPSE, not just mire down in political bickering.  There is plenty here to talk about in Economics, Energy, Climate, Science & Technology etc, etc etc to stay bizzy with.

RE

Seems like you and Surly are the ones mentioning JP the most around here lately. I don't recall saying a damn thing about him.

What I'm tired of is being disrespected by stupid people.  Be respectful to me and my POV, or ban me, or just shut the fuck up...I don't care.

 I won't roll over because you don't happen to agree with me. And if you call me names, like "white supremacist" (which I'm not) or a racist (which I'm not), or you want to tell me what to think, then I'm going fuck with you until you are very sorry you did. I'm not some lightweight, and I'm pissed off, in case you haven't noticed.

I've never heard of the cat before Ashvin regurgitated him here at the doomstead diner. One thing I'm not is sheltered. Naive, maybe...

I posted a piece on cracker ass favoritism yesterday, here, did you catch it.

The whole goddamn system is rigged & not towards wealthy dentistas or the rest of us useless eaters.

Psychopathes rule for a reason. & that reason is (nigel, high hat please  :icon_mrgreen:) They created it - B@@M  :icon_sunny:
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Surly1 on March 20, 2019, 06:55:07 PM
[It's only after that when he would take to task the idea that there is "summary execution of black citizens by white cops". Regardless of the statistical data, which Eddie pointed out is never as simple as the media portrays it to be, such a statement is identity politics, pure and simple.

I suspect the families of Eric Garner, Philando Castile, Tamir Rice, Sandra Bland, Freddie Gray, Laquan McDonald, et al might beg to differ. Wasn't it Stalin who said, "One death is a tragedy; 1000 deaths is a statistic."

One of the most important lessons I ever learned was the importance of seeing (or trying to see) things through the eyes of another. I used to think I was effectively colorblind and fair, but it was a friend (a former Black Panther who says he used t HATE white people) who helped me become aware of how radically different ordinary American society looks though black eyes.) Just the act of entering a department store, and automatically have eyes on you, being watched and followed. That's just one infinitesimally small example among dozens daily... the things many of us take for granted look very different from the perspective of black Americans.

People decry "identity politics" which is the tendency of people sharing a particular racial, religious, ethnic, social, or cultural identity to form political alliances. When the dominant society is hostile to those identities, how is this not a sane and reasonable response? As I've said before, the dominant party calls it "political correctness" when the oppressed assert that they are tired of the status quo and act with purpose to change it.

It serves no other purpose than to inflame tensions between two groups of people based on their race, while also implying all individuals within those groups ("black citizens" and "white cops") are homogeneous.

Race relations in this country are already inflamed, and getting worse every day with every massacre or Twitler Tweetstorm. They've been bruised for many decades, and are now bleeding in the Trump era. The implications of the homogeneity you point to are, in my opinion, distinctions that don't make a difference.

I was listening to a Malcolm Gladwell podcast earlier today and he mentioned something in passing that points out the folly of generalizations--
In a discussion about stand-your-ground laws, the implications are that they may increase homicide rates about seven percent. And the sad case of Trayvon Martin notwithstanding, apparently most of the victims are white males. Which is surprising, at least to me. "Stand your ground" laws remove or invert the traditional "duty to retreat" of avoiding confrontation. Specifically:

Quote
In common law, there is a principle called Duty to Retreat, which holds that a person being threatened has a duty to retreat to a place of safety to exhaust all avenue of escape before they can justifiably use force in self-defence. In the past several years, though, about half of American states have passed Stand Your Ground laws. Now, what's a Stand Your Ground law? It's a law that, effectively, repeals Duty to Retreat. It says, "You don't need to exhaust all avenues of escape to claim self-defense in a court of law. You can stand your ground, defend yourself and the law will support that choice." Duty to Retreat is a legal principle that gives people license to act disagreeably. I am not a coward if I cut and run at the first opportunity. I am, in fact, acting morally and responsibly. Stand Your Ground laws sanction the socially agreeable act. They say what matters is that you preserve your honor in front of family and community. I did not run. I stood my ground.
https://simonsays.ai/app.html#!/public/ritzel-tampos/ED46Ozk0k8YN/revisionist-history-s03e07-m-gladwells-12-rules-for-life/X6M0PkJYOGwb

So what are the effects of these laws?

He referenced a study found on ssrn.com (Stand Your Ground laws, homicides and injuries, Journal of Human Resources, summer 2017), and spoke with Chandler McClellan of American University, first author of the study in question. He asserted that states that passed Stand Your Ground laws saw their murder rates rise 7.7% compared to states that didn't pass such laws.

Quote from: McClellan
...people are using these laws and standing their ground in cases where they're actually not being lethally threatened. They could de-escalate the situation, they could get away, but instead, they're choosing to engage in self-defense and use lethal force against this threat and, as a result, you're seeing this kind of net increase in homicide rates.

And the extra people getting killed in Stand Your Ground states are white men. Estimates kind of show about 20%-25% increase in homicides among white males which is a little surprising, but it's what the researcher said "fell out of the model."

The researcher mentioned that the time frame was short and the studies are preliminary. Yet the effects the researchers found fly in the face of what the agenda laden might expect. But it is evidence, as opposed to outrageous opinion and so-called "common sense."

I bring this up only to suggest that often the "conventional wisdom" really isn't.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Surly1 on March 20, 2019, 06:56:47 PM
I came back to the Diner, because every other forum I examined, always became some political conflict. //
  There IS so much going on right now about Collapse that I am staying to post these news stories, and throw in some randomness.

For that we are grateful.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: K-Dog on March 20, 2019, 09:31:20 PM
]In the case of Jordan Peterson we should be looking at his ideas and asking if his spin on 'patriarchy' has any value in the reality of Doom.  Falling into the stupid left /right debate about JP is a disappointment and I'm not liking to see it.  His ideas from a doom perspective do have some merit though he has a mainstream ignorance of doom itself.
Quote
Alright, how about you first? What exactly is his "spin on patriarchy"?

He tells men to be providers. he tells them that is their role in life.  He tells them that they need to become organized and serious about becoming the best person they can be.  Patriarchy by definition is male rule.  Peterson sees the traditional forms as having deep meaning because they center and define people and they evolved the way they did for good reasons.  He wants men to be responsible and take care of others.  If that all isn't a particular individual take on patriarchy what is? 

Peterson also does not see women differently, and his relationship with his daughter proves that.  But he is identified with 'patriarchy' and his tours gather male audiences mostly for circumstantial reasons.  Peterson does not advocate for a male dominated society.  But he is challenging young men to step up because they haven't been.  He has a special message for them but his real message is not one of patriarchy but one of 'responsibility' and in American politics responsibility is a very dirty world.


Quote

Apparently your ideas about politics are all connected to material resources or the lack of them, as if that's the only thing driving all aspects of human social organization throughout our history. You may think JP has a "mainstream view of doom" because he directly challenges this materialist view. Religion and mythology speak to a deeper understanding of human nature and human social interaction. It's not ALL a fight over land or energy.

I have two books (academic *) which pretty much say that and I've come across a third but you are pinning 'ALL' on me most unfairly and assuming I think that exclusively with your 'only'.  That is  setting up a straw man argument and I decline to participate.  Further you defined what a "mainstream view of doom" is but I never did.  So I will and you can take yours and put it elsewhere.  The mainstream view of doom is that there is no need for serious concern and the normal safety switch is to rant that 'technology' will save us.  Peterson does not put out any other answer than this answer so he is mainstream as a Cadillac on 1st Avenue.  Mainstream or in other words, ignorant as shit.  Sorry everybody but it is true. 

Where you really go off the rails is with "a deeper understanding of human nature and human social interaction".  That is an entirely different subject than 'doom'.  Doom influences them and they influence doom but as subjects they are apples and oranges.  An expert in one subject may be entirely ignorant of the other realm.  Is there more going on than doom?  Of course!  Don't be silly.

Quote

I'd rather discuss philosophy or religion, but if you want to talk about collapse/doom, anyway you define it, there is no escaping politics. Maybe there's a reason why these topics get so much attention. While everyone tries to act like they are defending their honor here and would rather be focusing their energy on writing about doom prepping or whatever, their actions betray their actual desires. This is stuff people want to think about because it affects them immediately and personally.

If you'd rather discuss something else you can always get your own blog but really your complaint is something we all feel.  Sometimes it all seems like the same old same old no matter who you are.  We all get on our own hobby horse and you are no exception.

Quote
That's like saying "existence is a goal of most humans, the only argument is why do we exist". That's a HUGE argument. And when it comes to 'appropriate equality', the argument will inevitably be political. Hundreds of millions of lives have been lost while people try to work that one out.

No it is not.  Resources are a physical property of the universe as is the distribution of them.  How limited and finite resources are distributed is not a philosophical question like 'existence is a goal of most humans'.  You conflated entirely different things.

* Books:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7538274-poverty-and-progress (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7538274-poverty-and-progress)

http://www.craigdilworth.com/ (http://www.craigdilworth.com/)  <-- Too smart for our own good.

The third I'll read before I mention.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: K-Dog on March 20, 2019, 09:32:20 PM
I came back to the Diner, because every other forum I examined, always became some political conflict. //
  There IS so much going on right now about Collapse that I am staying to post these news stories, and throw in some randomness.

For that we are grateful.

I'll second that!
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on March 21, 2019, 02:22:42 AM
[It's only after that when he would take to task the idea that there is "summary execution of black citizens by white cops". Regardless of the statistical data, which Eddie pointed out is never as simple as the media portrays it to be, such a statement is identity politics, pure and simple.

I suspect the families of Eric Garner, Philando Castile, Tamir Rice, Sandra Bland, Freddie Gray, Laquan McDonald, et al might beg to differ. Wasn't it Stalin who said, "One death is a tragedy; 1000 deaths is a statistic."

Exactly (I'm not sure if Stalin said it, but he may as well have). You can bet a shooting of a black person by a white cop will be covered to death by the MSM (or media in general) and open all sorts of "discussion" (more like shouting) about systemic racism in this country. They will milk the tragedy for all it's worth.

The statistic that most police shooting victims are white will not be covered at all. Nor will the statistic that most violent crimes are committed by non-white people. First, people find statistics boring and the media doesn't like to cover things that don't pack an emotional punch. Second, it doesn't play into any narrative the media wants to weave - certainly not the one of systemic racism.

Quote
One of the most important lessons I ever learned was the importance of seeing (or trying to see) things through the eyes of another. I used to think I was effectively colorblind and fair, but it was a friend (a former Black Panther who says he used t HATE white people) who helped me become aware of how radically different ordinary American society looks though black eyes.) Just the act of entering a depart meant store, and automatically have eyes on you, being watched and followed. That's just one infinitesimally small example among dozens daily...

I'm probably one of the few people here who has been the target of racial epithets. I've heard "go back to your country" or some variation of that plenty of times, and that's without ever visiting the deep south. This is not evidence of systemic racism. Yes, different minority groups have different experiences in this country, and some of them no doubt involve bigotry and racism. This cannot be a justification of blanket pronouncement that our society is inherently racist throughout its institutions. And such a pronouncement does not do the actual victims of racism any favors.

Quote
People decry "identity politics" which is the tendency of people sharing a particular racial, religious, ethnic, social, or cultural identity to form political alliances. When the dominant society is hostile to those identities, how is this not a sane and reasonable response? As I've said before, the dominant party calls it "political correctness" when the oppressed assert that they are tired of the status quo and act with purpose to change it.

That's not necessarily how I would define identity politics, although political alliances should be based on more than who you share an identity with. (the liberal intersectional theorists are finding out that this doesn't work anyway, because you share multiple identities with multiple groups, some of which may be at odds with each other).

I would say identity politics is when group identity is held to be paramount above individual identities, and tensions among various groups of people are exploited for political talking points. Political correctness is when some people playing identity politics want to shut down speech or expression that challenges their perspective.

Quote
It serves no other purpose than to inflame tensions between two groups of people based on their race, while also implying all individuals within those groups ("black citizens" and "white cops") are homogeneous.

Race relations in this country are already inflamed, and getting worse every day with every massacre or Twitler Tweetstorm. They've been bruised for many decades, and are now bleeding in the Trump era. The implications of the homogeneity you point to are, in my opinion, distinctions that don't make a difference.

The fact that a relatively small number of activists are claiming to represent the ideas, opinions, frustrations, etc. of an entire population of people, whether it's blacks/minorities, women, gays, transgenders, etc. makes a difference. Pretending like the people within these groups have uniform perspectives is an attempt to rob them of their individuality, and that makes a difference.

Quote
I was listening to a Malcolm Gladwell podcast earlier today and he mentioned something in passing that points out the folly of generalizations--
In a discussion about stand-your-ground laws, the implications are that they may increase homicide rates about seven percent. And the sad case of Trayvon Martin notwithstanding, apparently most of the victims are white males. Which is surprising, at least to me. "Stand your ground" laws remove or invert the traditional "duty to retreat" of avoiding confrontation. Specifically:

Quote
In common law, there is a principle called Duty to Retreat, which holds that a person being threatened has a duty to retreat to a place of safety to exhaust all avenue of escape before they can justifiably use force in self-defence. In the past several years, though, about half of American states have passed Stand Your Ground laws. Now, what's a Stand Your Ground law? It's a law that, effectively, repeals Duty to Retreat. It says, "You don't need to exhaust all avenues of escape to claim self-defense in a court of law. You can stand your ground, defend yourself and the law will support that choice." Duty to Retreat is a legal principle that gives people license to act disagreeably. I am not a coward if I cut and run at the first opportunity. I am, in fact, acting morally and responsibly. Stand Your Ground laws sanction the socially agreeable act. They say what matters is that you preserve your honor in front of family and community. I did not run. I stood my ground.
https://simonsays.ai/app.html#!/public/ritzel-tampos/ED46Ozk0k8YN/revisionist-history-s03e07-m-gladwells-12-rules-for-life/X6M0PkJYOGwb

So what are the effects of these laws?

He referenced a study found on ssrn.com (Stand Your Ground laws, homicides and injuries, Journal of Human Resources, summer 2017), and spoke with Chandler McClellan of American University, first author of the study in question. He asserted that states that passed Stand Your Ground laws saw their murder rates rise 7.7% compared to states that didn't pass such laws.

Quote from: McClellan
...people are using these laws and standing their ground in cases where they're actually not being lethally threatened. They could de-escalate the situation, they could get away, but instead, they're choosing to engage in self-defense and use lethal force against this threat and, as a result, you're seeing this kind of net increase in homicide rates.

And the extra people getting killed in Stand Your Ground states are white men. Estimates kind of show about 20%-25% increase in homicides among white males which is a little surprising, but it's what the researcher said "fell out of the model."

The researcher mentioned that the time frame was short and the studies are preliminary. Yet the effects the researchers found fly in the face of what the agenda laden might expect. But it is evidence, as opposed to outrageous opinion and so-called "common sense."

I bring this up only to suggest that often the "conventional wisdom" really isn't.

Well that's an interesting statistical development. But like the researcher says, it's a preliminary finding and who knows what it means. It makes sense to me that people who stand their ground could be more likely to get killed, but that doesn't necessarily mean the right to stand your ground is a bad one. I totally agree that "conventional wisdom" often isn't, and sometimes it is, but we need to go where the evidence can take us on these issues and no further.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on March 21, 2019, 02:49:31 AM
]In the case of Jordan Peterson we should be looking at his ideas and asking if his spin on 'patriarchy' has any value in the reality of Doom.  Falling into the stupid left /right debate about JP is a disappointment and I'm not liking to see it.  His ideas from a doom perspective do have some merit though he has a mainstream ignorance of doom itself.
Quote
Alright, how about you first? What exactly is his "spin on patriarchy"?

He tells men to be providers. he tells them that is their role in life.  He tells them that they need to become organized and serious about becoming the best person they can be.  Patriarchy by definition is male rule.  Peterson sees the traditional forms as having deep meaning because they center and define people and they evolved the way they did for good reasons.  He wants men to be responsible and take care of others.  If that all isn't a particular individual take on patriarchy what is?

I generally agree with what you said - I just don't know why it needs to be called his spin on patriarchy. From what I have heard, he would say "male rule" does not exist in any meaningful sense in the West anymore. Calling modern society a patriarchy implies there is systemic oppression of women by men, which is just a false narrative. 

Quote
Peterson also does not see women differently, and his relationship with his daughter proves that.  But he is identified with 'patriarchy' and his tours gather male audiences mostly for circumstantial reasons.  Peterson does not advocate for a male dominated society.  But he is challenging young men to step up because they haven't been.  He has a special message for them but his real message is not one of patriarchy but one of 'responsibility' and in American politics responsibility is a very dirty world.

He talks about this in his latest Q&A - I believe he said women make up about 30% of his talks now and that has been on an upward trend as the book sells more.

True, neither party wants to touch "responsibility" right now, because it doesn't sell in a time where everyone is focused on "rights".

Quote
I have two books (academic *) which pretty much say that and I've come across a third but you are pinning 'ALL' on me most unfairly and assuming I think that exclusively with your 'only'.  That is  setting up a straw man argument and I decline to participate.  Further you defined what a "mainstream view of doom" is but I never did.  So I will and you can take yours and put it elsewhere.  The mainstream view of doom is that there is no need for serious concern and the normal safety switch is to rant that 'technology' will save us.  Peterson does not put out any other answer than this answer so he is mainstream as a Cadillac on 1st Avenue.  Mainstream or in other words, ignorant as shit.  Sorry everybody but it is true. 

That isn't reflective Peterson's view in the least. When has he ever said "no need for serious concern"? What he does say, and is qualified to as a clinical psychologist, is that certain approaches to the Doom inherent in life and the Doom generated by our particular circumstances are better than other approaches, in so far as they keep people with meaning and aims in their lives and keep them moving forward.

Quote
Where you really go off the rails is with "a deeper understanding of human nature and human social interaction".  That is an entirely different subject than 'doom'.  Doom influences them and they influence doom but as subjects they are apples and oranges.  An expert in one subject may be entirely ignorant of the other realm.  Is there more going on than doom?  Of course!  Don't be silly.

...

If you'd rather discuss something else you can always get your own blog but really your complaint is something we all feel.  Sometimes it all seems like the same old same old no matter who you are.  We all get on our own hobby horse and you are no exception.

...
No it is not.  Resources are a physical property of the universe as is the distribution of them.  How limited and finite resources are distributed is not a philosophical question like 'existence is a goal of most humans'.  You conflated entirely different things.

I get what you're saying, but in my mind there is no separating philosophy, science/psychology and "doom". How we developed and what motivates us, as individuals and as a species, is a huge part of how things may play out as we react to various systemic problems. And the question of how finite resources can and should be distributed is both a scientific and an ethical one. When the question becomes 'what is the appropriate level of equalization of material resources among a given population?', we are actively trying to mold human nature and social interaction in a rationalist way and this has proven a dangerous road to go down many times before.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on March 21, 2019, 03:09:57 AM
I'm probably one of the few people here who has been the target of racial epithets.

I have been called "Honky" dozens of times, "Gringo" dozens more, "Gaijin" by a couple of Japanese cooks I worked with and "Paleface" by my First Nations Brothers and Sisters a few times as well.

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Surly1 on March 21, 2019, 04:23:54 AM
[It's only after that when he would take to task the idea that there is "summary execution of black citizens by white cops". Regardless of the statistical data, which Eddie pointed out is never as simple as the media portrays it to be, such a statement is identity politics, pure and simple.

I suspect the families of Eric Garner, Philando Castile, Tamir Rice, Sandra Bland, Freddie Gray, Laquan McDonald, et al might beg to differ. Wasn't it Stalin who said, "One death is a tragedy; 1000 deaths is a statistic."

Exactly (I'm not sure if Stalin said it, but he may as well have). You can bet a shooting of a black person by a white cop will be covered to death by the MSM (or media in general) and open all sorts of "discussion" (more like shouting) about systemic racism in this country. They will milk the tragedy for all it's worth.

The statistic that most police shooting victims are white will not be covered at all. Nor will the statistic that most violent crimes are committed by non-white people. First, people find statistics boring and the media doesn't like to cover things that don't pack an emotional punch. Second, it doesn't play into any narrative the media wants to weave - certainly not the one of systemic racism.


I can't reply to your entire post because it is simply too much keeping track of codes and SMS editing. But I have to tell you the your assertion that the "shootings of white people" not being covered is verifiably wrong. 'If it bleeds it leads" is a hoary axiom in newsrooms, and local media dutifully report on police blotters ad infinitum. Every murder, white or black, leaps from headlines and is screeched by newsreaders At the top of the newscast.

If they "milk it for all its worth," blame their business model rather than any ideological agenda.

If most of "violent crimes are committed by non-white people," you'll find that the victims are overwhelmingly nonwhite as well.

Also your assertion that the media, that wholly corporately-owned yet somehow irretrievably liberal bastion of propaganda, is "weaving" a tale of "systemic racism." From where I sit, the media ignore it and change the subject when it comes up.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on March 21, 2019, 07:58:04 AM
We all get on our own hobby horse and you are no exception.

Yes, and the Hobby Horse around here is SUPPOSED to be COLLAPSE.

(https://r.hswstatic.com/w_907/gif/now-bf25d30b-309b-497a-881c-e87fb62ea54c-1210-680.jpg)

What it has morphed into here instead is the Horse's Ass end of Collapse, Political Distractions.  I put up a half dozen topics this morning at least as worthy if not more than the daily drone of political bullshit.  It's certainly more worthwhile fodder for discussion than any given Diner's view on SJWs.  ::)

Every day the Usual Suspects gather around their respective laptops and argue about the same worn out topics, SJWs, Capitalism vs Socialism, Black vs White, Men vs Women, Civil War Statues and how many Bathrooms they need to have at Walmart.

This is called "Beating a Dead Horse".

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JizzeERcZjg/maxresdefault.jpg)

I am reminded of the parable of the Blind Men describing an Elephant.  The regular posters here all seem to be focused on the Tail End of the elephant.

(https://equilibregaia.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/conte-sufc3ad0001-copiaeng.jpg?w=1075)

I'm sick of it. 🤮

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: g on March 21, 2019, 08:16:42 AM
We all get on our own hobby horse and you are no exception.

Yes, and the Hobby Horse around here is SUPPOSED to be COLLAPSE.

(https://r.hswstatic.com/w_907/gif/now-bf25d30b-309b-497a-881c-e87fb62ea54c-1210-680.jpg)

What it has morphed into here instead is the Horse's Ass end of Collapse, Political Distractions.  I put up a half dozen topics this morning at least as worthy if not more than the daily drone of political bullshit.  It's certainly more worthwhile fodder for discussion than any given Diner's view on SJWs.  ::)

Every day the Usual Suspects gather around their respective laptops and argue about the same worn out topics, SJWs, Capitalism vs Socialism, Black vs White, Men vs Women, Civil War Statues and how many Bathrooms they need to have at Walmart.

This is called "Beating a Dead Horse".

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JizzeERcZjg/maxresdefault.jpg)

I am reminded of the parable of the Blind Men describing an Elephant.  The regular posters here all seem to be focused on the Tail End of the elephant.

(https://equilibregaia.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/conte-sufc3ad0001-copiaeng.jpg?w=1075)

I'm sick of it. 🤮

RE

Is that what you call your daily dose of Beto posting this morning??

You would be a lot of laughs if you described yourself as a comic.     :D ;D :emthup:     

                                   (https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-wdX91mZYF5o%2FUVecak-eh_I%2FAAAAAAAAxsg%2F3OkHq_rFF5g%2Fs1600%2FHenny%2BYoungman%2B-%2BTake%2BMy%2BAlbum%2C%2BPlease%2BOr%2BTwo%2BSets%2BFor%2BThe%2BPrice%2BOf%2BOne%2Bback.JPG&f=1)
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on March 21, 2019, 08:25:16 AM
[It's only after that when he would take to task the idea that there is "summary execution of black citizens by white cops". Regardless of the statistical data, which Eddie pointed out is never as simple as the media portrays it to be, such a statement is identity politics, pure and simple.

I suspect the families of Eric Garner, Philando Castile, Tamir Rice, Sandra Bland, Freddie Gray, Laquan McDonald, et al might beg to differ. Wasn't it Stalin who said, "One death is a tragedy; 1000 deaths is a statistic."

Exactly (I'm not sure if Stalin said it, but he may as well have). You can bet a shooting of a black person by a white cop will be covered to death by the MSM (or media in general) and open all sorts of "discussion" (more like shouting) about systemic racism in this country. They will milk the tragedy for all it's worth.

The statistic that most police shooting victims are white will not be covered at all. Nor will the statistic that most violent crimes are committed by non-white people. First, people find statistics boring and the media doesn't like to cover things that don't pack an emotional punch. Second, it doesn't play into any narrative the media wants to weave - certainly not the one of systemic racism.


I can't reply to your entire post because it is simply too much keeping track of codes and SMS editing. But I have to tell you the your assertion that the "shootings of white people" not being covered is verifiably wrong. 'If it bleeds it leads" is a hoary axiom in newsrooms, and local media dutifully report on police blotters ad infinitum. Every murder, white or black, leaps from headlines and is screeched by newsreaders At the top of the newscast.

If they "milk it for all its worth," blame their business model rather than any ideological agenda.

If most of "violent crimes are committed by non-white people," you'll find that the victims are overwhelmingly nonwhite as well.

Also your assertion that the media, that wholly corporately-owned yet somehow irretrievably liberal bastion of propaganda, is "weaving" a tale of "systemic racism." From where I sit, the media ignore it and change the subject when it comes up.

I didn't say shootings of white people aren't covered. They will be covered briefly, but they won't be talked to death by round tables of politically motivated pundits and spark "discussions" of 'why white people are being targeted'. And they shouldn't! I don't think most of the families of officer shooting victims want their tragedies used as an ideological platform.

I can blame both business models and ideological bias. People are motivated by multiple things. It's not just traditional media outlets that do this, it's pretty much all platforms of "news" dissemination, including social media. And these are the platforms most people turn to for information these days.

If you do a google search for "systemic racism", you will find a shit ton of publications with articles about it, some of them very popular. Here is one from the Nation circa 2014:

https://www.thenation.com/article/effects-ignoring-systemic-racism/ (https://www.thenation.com/article/effects-ignoring-systemic-racism/)
"The control of black bodies is foundational to American democracy. It is a structural reality. Our institutions are built to protect that reality. White supremacy is our core identity. Ignoring this reality prevents us from building an alternate reality. Ignoring the reality of racism only makes us more racist"
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: Ashvin on April 02, 2019, 09:44:22 AM
A fascinating interview with Jamil Jivani - he grew up in an inner Canadian city and somehow managed to get his act together, go to college and get a law degree from Yale. He speaks about a number of things, including why he resisted the victimization narrative that everyone else was trying to mold on him and people like him.

http://www.youtube.com/v/o2bFzK2EdIo
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: azozeo on April 03, 2019, 12:21:35 PM
A fascinating interview with Jamil Jivani - he grew up in an inner Canadian city and somehow managed to get his act together, go to college and get a law degree from Yale. He speaks about a number of things, including why he resisted the victimization narrative that everyone else was trying to mold on him and people like him.

http://www.youtube.com/v/o2bFzK2EdIo



http://www.youtube.com/v/XicKygU-g1s&fs=1
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: azozeo on April 04, 2019, 12:32:56 PM


How To Stop Self-Sabotage & Get Out Of Your Own Way
April 3, 2019

By Mark DeNicola
IN BRIEF

    The Facts:While we all have our fair share of obstacles to overcome in life, in many cases, we are the biggest obstacles standing in our way. Thankfully, there are things we can all do to cut back on self-sabotaging behaviour.
    Reflect On:How much am I holding myself back from? What, if anything, am I getting from keeping myself in the state I am in?

Whether or not you consider yourself a creative person, we are all creative powerhouses. Proof of this lies within our minds, which are consistently concocting ideas, scenarios, goals and so much more that all play a prominent role in the life that we live.​

While some of us thrive at making the most of the constructive impulses that come our way, the vast majority of us instead seem to excel at running with those that are instead destructive in nature. We may feel as though we live in a world filled with ruthless competition, but in reality our biggest competitor both operates and exists within us.

“Addiction, self-sabotage, procrastination, laziness, rage, chronic fatigue and depression are all ways that we withhold our full participation in the program of life we are offered. When the conscious mind cannot find a reason to say no, the unconscious says no in its own way.” – Charles Eisenstein, The More Beautiful World Our Hearts Know Is Possible

Here are some of what I’ve found to be the most common ways in which we sabotage ourselves and what we can all do to get out of our own way:

https://www.collective-evolution.com/2019/04/03/how-to-stop-self-sabotage-get-out-of-your-own-way/ (https://www.collective-evolution.com/2019/04/03/how-to-stop-self-sabotage-get-out-of-your-own-way/)
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web, has been shut down !
Post by: azozeo on May 11, 2019, 01:18:02 PM
https://www.apnews.com/26a90d446e5d47ba94a60b1a6023ad16 (https://www.apnews.com/26a90d446e5d47ba94a60b1a6023ad16)
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web, has been shut down !
Post by: K-Dog on May 11, 2019, 01:45:14 PM
https://www.apnews.com/26a90d446e5d47ba94a60b1a6023ad16 (https://www.apnews.com/26a90d446e5d47ba94a60b1a6023ad16)

Quote
The website was identified as DeepDotWeb, accessible under a slightly different name on the darknet, part of the internet but hosted within an encrypted network and accessible only with anonymity-providing tools.

DeepDotWeb provided users with access to marketplaces where vendors sold everything from illegal narcotics such as fentanyl, heroin and crystal methamphetamine; to assault rifles, malicious software, hacking tools and stolen financial information.

U.S. Attorney Scott Brady called DeepDotWeb “a one-stop information center for people who were trying to access the dark web.”

slightly different name   <== oops

So tell me why this is not propaganda!  How would such a site with millions of dollars worth of infrastructure get commission from even one customer?  How would they get one customer?  If it is on the dark web how would anyone know about it in the first place.

Quote
The website also provided reviews of marketplaces on the dark web, as well as tutorials on how to use it, he said.

So if you could get to the hidden website you would find a tutorial on how to get to the hidden website.  Good to know!

It makes me angry that postmodern life treats us as if we are morons.  The only way such a business model could work is if the FBI has a lot of explosives to sell and the CIA is flush with money for drug smuggling.  Of course we all know such things could never happen so this story has to be bullshit.

I see an excuse to make everybody lift their butt into the air so Uncle Sam can make you his bitch.  Patriot Act Part Two with an involuntary introduction by Julian Assange coming your way.

http://www.youtube.com/v/00tN0IHvlVw

FBI announced ..............................

>DeepDotWeb

Always look for the inside joke.  They can't help putting them in there.  It is a need.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51MRjlocc1L._SY445_QL70_.jpg)

Nothing to notice, nothing at all.  slightly different name

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_7YTsHarkaVM/RroGQ0w29PI/AAAAAAAAAXU/I7rBMAaJDIA/s320/curtains-close_1_.gif)

The curtain is coming down.  As some,(many) will not follow my twisted logic it is obvious to me 'deep' is in the real name but no criminal website would ever name themselves that way.  But this is bemusement only because having a website that nobody knows about does not a good business model make.  That is what really makes the story looney-toons.  Regardless of what the black suits in white shirts of the FBI say.

And one of them can say.  Yeah but K-Dog it is not like this place is Nazi Germany.

And Israelis would be smarter than the FBI too.
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: azozeo on May 11, 2019, 03:38:50 PM
I was expecting Ashvin to fetch the stick, NOT YOU !


Thanks for the spin amigo  :icon_sunny:
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on May 11, 2019, 05:17:22 PM
I was expecting Ashvin to fetch the stick, NOT YOU !


Thanks for the spin amigo  :icon_sunny:

Ashvin is in the Cooler for multiple violations of the CoC.  30 days.

http://www.youtube.com/v/hhGWxqj_bC0

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: azozeo on May 11, 2019, 06:52:12 PM
Does he get a mitt & glove ?  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on May 11, 2019, 07:01:50 PM
Does he get a mitt & glove ?  :icon_mrgreen:

Too noisy.  A deck of cards and finger painting supplies.

Cooler Cuisine:

Breakfast:  Generic Unflavored Instant Oatmeal & a Hard Boiled Egg
Lunch:  Peanut Butter & Jelly on Wonder Bread
Dinner: Ramen Noodles

1 multivitamin/day

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: K-Dog on May 11, 2019, 07:13:20 PM
This cooler business, is this one of those S&M things?  This is not a dumb question from me. 

(https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/rose_red5/15905554/16943/16943_900.png)

Dog collars are for walking.  That they would be used for other things is something I don't know about.

Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: RE on May 11, 2019, 07:45:04 PM
This cooler business, is this one of those S&M things?  This is not a dumb question from me. 

Assuming you're being serious (hard to do given the graphic that followed  ::) ), it's a behavioral conditioning tool.  Obey the Rules or you get punished.  With the gymmies we called this "Listen & Obey".

Good behavioral conditioning is hard to do for most people.  You can't make idle threats, like "I'm gonna KILL you!" with your kids, because they quickly learn they will not in fact be killed if they disobey.  Same thing applies to recalcitrant posters who just don't learn after a warning.  If you threaten a punishment, you have to follow through with it.

Again, the vid clip from "Cool Hand Luke" is most appropriate: "Some folks you just can't reach.  It's a Failure to Communicate."

http://www.youtube.com/v/_WUyZXhLHMk

RE
Title: Amenities of the Diner Cooler
Post by: RE on May 13, 2019, 02:17:50 PM
Does he get a mitt & glove ?  :icon_mrgreen:

Too noisy.  A deck of cards and finger painting supplies.

Cooler Cuisine:

Breakfast:  Generic Unflavored Instant Oatmeal & a Hard Boiled Egg
Lunch:  Peanut Butter & Jelly on Wonder Bread
Dinner: Ramen Noodles

1 multivitamin/day

RE

I forgot to include the drinks included with Cooler meals.

Breakfast:  Bottled Flint, MI Water with Orange Kool-Aid package
Lunch: Bottled Beijing Water with Lemon Fizzies
Dinner: Iced Tea brewed with Bottled Fukushima Cooling Pond Water

Also, Cooler Toilet Facilities

1 Chamber Pot (changed daily at Breakfast for sanitary reasons)
Last Week's Sunday NYT for wiping

Bedding:

Fold out 3/4" Plywood Platform
1/2" Yoga Exercise Pad
Polypropylene Inflatable Air Pillow
Aluminized Space Blanket

Exercise Equipment:


Treadmill facing the wall


We are very humane in our treatment of Prisoners in the Diner Cooler.  No Torture other than being forced to go Cold Turkey off your Internet Trolling Jones.

RE
Title: Re: Amenities of the Diner Cooler
Post by: azozeo on May 13, 2019, 02:32:59 PM
Does he get a mitt & glove ?  :icon_mrgreen:

Too noisy.  A deck of cards and finger painting supplies.

Cooler Cuisine:

Breakfast:  Generic Unflavored Instant Oatmeal & a Hard Boiled Egg
Lunch:  Peanut Butter & Jelly on Wonder Bread
Dinner: Ramen Noodles

1 multivitamin/day

RE

I forgot to include the drinks included with Cooler meals.

Breakfast:  Bottled Flint, MI Water with Orange Kool-Aid package
Lunch: Bottled Beijing Water with Lemon Fizzies
Dinner: Iced Tea brewed with Bottled Fukushima Cooling Pond Water

Also, Cooler Toilet Facilities

1 Chamber Pot (changed daily at Breakfast for sanitary reasons)
Last Week's Sunday NYT for wiping

Bedding:

Fold out 3/4" Plywood Platform
1/2" Yoga Exercise Pad
Polypropylene Inflatable Air Pillow
Aluminized Space Blanket

Exercise Equipment:


Treadmill facing the wall


We are very humane in our treatment of Prisoners in the Diner Cooler.  No Torture other than being forced to go Cold Turkey off your Internet Trolling Jones.

RE


With the hard boiled egg I thought I was reading the room srvc menu at the Marriott Inn Suites.. Tennis prison anyone  :icon_sunny:
Title: Re: Amenities of the Diner Cooler
Post by: azozeo on May 13, 2019, 02:35:44 PM
Does he get a mitt & glove ?  :icon_mrgreen:

Too noisy.  A deck of cards and finger painting supplies.

Cooler Cuisine:

Breakfast:  Generic Unflavored Instant Oatmeal & a Hard Boiled Egg
Lunch:  Peanut Butter & Jelly on Wonder Bread
Dinner: Ramen Noodles

1 multivitamin/day

RE

I forgot to include the drinks included with Cooler meals.

Breakfast:  Bottled Flint, MI Water with Orange Kool-Aid package
Lunch: Bottled Beijing Water with Lemon Fizzies
Dinner: Iced Tea brewed with Bottled Fukushima Cooling Pond Water

Also, Cooler Toilet Facilities

1 Chamber Pot (changed daily at Breakfast for sanitary reasons)
Last Week's Sunday NYT for wiping

Bedding:

Fold out 3/4" Plywood Platform
1/2" Yoga Exercise Pad
Polypropylene Inflatable Air Pillow
Aluminized Space Blanket

Exercise Equipment:


Treadmill facing the wall


We are very humane in our treatment of Prisoners in the Diner Cooler.  No Torture other than being forced to go Cold Turkey off your Internet Trolling Jones.

RE


Quick question whilst I have your tention..... Is soft boiled an option ?  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: Amenities of the Diner Cooler
Post by: RE on May 13, 2019, 02:41:57 PM
Does he get a mitt & glove ?  :icon_mrgreen:

Too noisy.  A deck of cards and finger painting supplies.

Cooler Cuisine:

Breakfast:  Generic Unflavored Instant Oatmeal & a Hard Boiled Egg
Lunch:  Peanut Butter & Jelly on Wonder Bread
Dinner: Ramen Noodles

1 multivitamin/day

RE

I forgot to include the drinks included with Cooler meals.

Breakfast:  Bottled Flint, MI Water with Orange Kool-Aid package
Lunch: Bottled Beijing Water with Lemon Fizzies
Dinner: Iced Tea brewed with Bottled Fukushima Cooling Pond Water

Also, Cooler Toilet Facilities

1 Chamber Pot (changed daily at Breakfast for sanitary reasons)
Last Week's Sunday NYT for wiping

Bedding:

Fold out 3/4" Plywood Platform
1/2" Yoga Exercise Pad
Polypropylene Inflatable Air Pillow
Aluminized Space Blanket

Exercise Equipment:


Treadmill facing the wall


We are very humane in our treatment of Prisoners in the Diner Cooler.  No Torture other than being forced to go Cold Turkey off your Internet Trolling Jones.

RE


Quick question whilst I have your tention..... Is soft boiled an option ?  :icon_mrgreen:

Only option is a raw egg you can dump in the Oatmeal.  Cooking soft boiled demands the Cooler cook actually watches the clock whilst boiling the egg.  Too labor intensive.  Hard boiled aggs are generally boiled for 15 minutes or so to make sure they are really dried out and rubbery.

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: azozeo on May 13, 2019, 02:56:21 PM
I tried Ashvin........

Title: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW) - Here ya' Go Ashvin
Post by: azozeo on May 18, 2019, 11:31:33 AM
(https://galacticconnection.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/guru-syndrome.png)


The Guru Syndrome: When Spirituality Turns Sour

May 12th, 2019

By Steve Taylor, Ph.D.

Guest writer for Wake Up World

Many years ago, I attended some meetings of a spiritual group whose ideas interested me. I liked the teacher and author who had started the group. I thought his theories were very clear and intelligent, encompassing a vast range of topics into an integrated whole. But what I found strange was the attitude of other members of the group. Although the teacher had died many years ago, they worshipped him as an omnipotent god-like being. They believed that he had performed miracles and that he still controlled their lives. I was also disturbed by their attitude to me. They disapproved that I was interested in other approaches. When I mentioned to one member of the group that I also attended a local Buddhist group, he looked at me sternly and said, “Why do you need to go there? This group should be enough for you.” After a while, the group’s unconditional worship of their leader and their exclusivist attitude made me feel so uneasy that I stopped attending their meetings.

This was my first encounter with the “guru syndrome.” The guru tradition has been a part of Indian culture since time immemorial. In that context, it is seen as an important way of transmitting spiritual teachings, and a way of supporting aspirants along the spiritual path. Spiritual development can be a tricky process, with all kinds of pitfalls and dangers, so the guidance of a guru is helpful. According to Indian tradition, the guru can also ‘transmit’ his spiritual radiance to his followers, providing them with spiritual sustenance. In addition, the devotion of the disciple to the guru has an important role. Indian spirituality places a high value on bhakti (devotion), as a way of transcending self-centredness.



https://wakeup-world.com/2019/05/12/the-guru-syndrome-when-spirituality-turns-sour/




Title: There’s a Global Crackdown on the Dark Web
Post by: azozeo on May 20, 2019, 11:55:58 AM


HUNTING CRIMINALS

Criminals are going to have a tougher time using the dark web for illegal activity.

On Tuesday, the FBI announced the seizure of Deep Dot Web, a website that provided links to dark web marketplaces — the latest example of law enforcement cracking down on the shadowy side of the internet.
WEB OF CRIME

The dark web is a lot like the “surface web” you’re probably using right now.

The difference is you can’t access dark web sites through your standard internet browser — first you need to download special software, like the Tor browser, because sites on the dark web exist on an encrypted network.

This affords dark web users an extra layer of anonymity, which has made the dark web attractive to criminals.
CRACKING DOWN

The FBI’s seizure of Deep Dot Web comes just days after Europol police led an international take down of two dark web marketplaces: the Silkkitie, also known as the Valhalla Marketplace, and the Wall Street Market, the second-largest marketplace on the dark web.

“We continue to keep pace with sophisticated actors on the dark web by increasing our technical abilities and working even more closely with our international law enforcement partners,” U.S. Attorney Nick Hanna said in a news release on the Wall Street take down. “While they lurk in the deepest corners of the internet, this case shows that we can hunt down these criminals wherever they hide.”

READ MORE: Feds take down dark web index and news site Deep Dot Web [The Verge]

More on the dark web: People Are Selling Weapons on the Dark Web


https://wordpress.futurism.com/global-crackdown-dark-web-marketplaces/?src=featured
Title: Re: Christianity and Marxism/Socialism at the same time?
Post by: azozeo on June 10, 2019, 04:41:21 PM
Skip to 43 min. to hear JP explain why Christian and Marxist values cannot co-exist at the same time:

http://www.youtube.com/v/MnUfXYGtT5Q

Your designer guru broke the one & only rule in this 3D meme.....

Free will AND choice ! (folks luuuvvvv choices)

If someone wants to smush there mashed taters & peas together, it's ok.

Marxism & Christianity is in life's box of chocolates.

Your cat does have a nice dry martini sense of humor. He's clearly done some seat time & laps in the stage circuit.
 If He pumps you full of piss & vinegar run wit' it .

Title: Re: Christianity and Marxism/Socialism at the same time?
Post by: Surly1 on June 10, 2019, 06:46:47 PM
Skip to 43 min. to hear JP explain why Christian and Marxist values cannot co-exist at the same time:

http://www.youtube.com/v/MnUfXYGtT5Q

I'll be damned.

Fresh out of Rikers and the first thing he does is post a Jordan Fucking Peterson video in willful and enthusiastic violation of the so called and illusory "CoC™.

To review the bidding:
http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/forum/index.php/topic,12203.msg170882.html#msg170882 (http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/forum/index.php/topic,12203.msg170882.html#msg170882)

Remarkable.
Title: Re: Christianity and Marxism/Socialism at the same time?
Post by: RE on June 10, 2019, 07:58:20 PM
Skip to 43 min. to hear JP explain why Christian and Marxist values cannot co-exist at the same time:

http://www.youtube.com/v/MnUfXYGtT5Q

I'll be damned.

Fresh out of Rikers and the first thing he does is post a Jordan Fucking Peterson video in willful and enthusiastic violation of the so called and illusory "CoC™.

To review the bidding:
http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/forum/index.php/topic,12203.msg170882.html#msg170882 (http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/forum/index.php/topic,12203.msg170882.html#msg170882)

Remarkable.

It wasn't the only violation.  It also continued his pattern of only posting up on his pet concerns of "Marxism" and Christianity.  I chose to ignore it to see what he would do, which he made abundantly clear in his follow-up post.

Needless to say, he is going back in the cooler for another month.

RE
Title: Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
Post by: K-Dog on June 10, 2019, 09:12:59 PM
Damn Peterson is rambling.  I think he is just making shit up now.