AuthorTopic: Tesla Is A Zero - Karl Denninger  (Read 9984 times)

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 41390
    • View Profile
Re: Tesla Is A Zero - Karl Denninger
« Reply #45 on: July 01, 2016, 08:20:42 PM »
A well-working car-bot would know how to swerve to miss a cow or elk -- since hitting either at high speed could kill the passenger.

It would not flinch at hitting a skateboard, if it must, to avoid hurting somebody.  Same with a squirrel.  But it would have to recognize a very small skateboarding child, somehow.  It would have to recognize a small child as -- perhaps -- ethically different from anything slightly resembling a small child -- ... a dog, a shopping cart covered in a blanket which just suddenly and unexpectedly left the directing arms of a toothless homeless woman.

Personally, when I consider all of the variables and complexities it rather boggles my mind how a computerized system with a camera eye could know how to navigate such complexity.  Does it just slam on the brakes whenever it is confused about what to do? If it does, does anyone then crash into the back of it?  If a bird suddenly flies in front of the camera will it always know this fleeting shadow is but a bird? ... a dragonfly, a butterfly?

The malfunction problems are certainly fun to consider.  What happens if the Camera gets splashed with mud?  Or some teenager with nothing better to do decides to prank you and spray paints the lens with black paint?

What about the TERRORISM potential?  You wouldn't even need Suicide Bombers anymore!  You could have Suicide Teslas! Buy a dozen and program them to drive into malls, churches and elementary schools loaded with ammonium nitrate in the trunk!

Or how about Chinese Hackers waiting until there are a few million on the road, and then reprogramming them all to go BERZERK on the anniversary of 9-11 at Rush Hour on the Long Island Expressway?

RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline Surly1

  • Administrator
  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 18597
    • View Profile
    • Doomstead Diner
Re: Tesla Is A Zero - Karl Denninger
« Reply #46 on: July 02, 2016, 04:12:53 AM »
But learning to fly a plane is a difficult motherfucker.

Actually, RE was spot on. After all, we were discussing a plane on autopilot, not in a dogfight in WWII.  Autopilot systems are based on all sorts of assumptions about conditions which can be trusted to be the case the overwhelming majority of the time. It's not entirely unlike having a car on cruise control on a perfectly straight and level highway that goes on without interruption in this straight and level way for many hours. A guy could use his knees to hold the wheel ... nod off, and drive for miles like this if he doesn't tend to roll around much in his sleep. This bears no resemblance to driving in an urban or suburban environment (though I did exaggerate ever so slightly to make my point).  There are no intersections up there, no curves, no dogs or deer or cows or kids or skateboards or bicycles or baby carriages... there are even no birds at those elevations. There is NOTHING. NOTHING. JUST air.  Sheesh.

No, he is wrong. As are you.
Autos don't have a variety of control surfaces to learn about and manage in real time. A pilot has to operate in three spatial dimensions, go through specific sequences and procedures during normal operations, think about the weather, communicate with ATC, etc.

And there's the taking off and landing thingy.

With driving, you learn rules, regulations, and most importantly -- learning to drive (ex. maneuver, park, change lanes, merge, etc.). With flying -- while maneuvering the aircraft is not as difficult (ex. basic turns, descents, climbs), landing is far more challenging than, say, parallel parking. In a plane you have three axes of control--roll, pitch and yaw, and you have to control all three at once. The FAA has Practical Testing Standards, which specifies what you must proficiently demonstrate on your Practical Test (aka. "Checkride"). Such basic maneuvers include steep turns, power-on/power-off stalls, short field/soft field takeoff/landing, and emergency descents. A pilot must also learn to plan a route of flight, file a flight plan, interpret weather data, and communicate with Air Traffic Control and other aircraft, scan for other traffic, and learn at least some flight physiology (how altitude affects the body), and rules and regs pertaining to FAA.

Flying is not just about maneuvering a piece of metal in the sky... so I consider it more complex than learning to drive). Operating the respective vehicles may be comparable, but learning about weather, regulations, performance, navigation, etc. makes learning to fly a plane far more demanding than driving a car. As your and REs stories show (and I have a couple myself), you can lose control of a vehicle and walk away intact, or drive out of a snowbank. With flying, you can't stop and pull-over... if you fuck up, you're dead.
"Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly now, love mercy now, walk humbly now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it."

Offline monsta666

  • Global Moderator
  • Sous Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 1537
    • View Profile
Re: Tesla Is A Zero - Karl Denninger
« Reply #47 on: July 02, 2016, 06:04:12 AM »
With driving, you learn rules, regulations, and most importantly -- learning to drive (ex. maneuver, park, change lanes, merge, etc.). With flying -- while maneuvering the aircraft is not as difficult (ex. basic turns, descents, climbs), landing is far more challenging than, say, parallel parking. In a plane you have three axes of control--roll, pitch and yaw, and you have to control all three at once. The FAA has Practical Testing Standards, which specifies what you must proficiently demonstrate on your Practical Test (aka. "Checkride"). Such basic maneuvers include steep turns, power-on/power-off stalls, short field/soft field takeoff/landing, and emergency descents. A pilot must also learn to plan a route of flight, file a flight plan, interpret weather data, and communicate with Air Traffic Control and other aircraft, scan for other traffic, and learn at least some flight physiology (how altitude affects the body), and rules and regs pertaining to FAA.

I am no expert but let me put my views as others have done. Piloting a plane, at least from the mechanical aspect is harder than a car due to increased range of controls and dimensions the aircraft can operate. In addition the tolerance for failure on aircraft is lower than cars so operators are held to a higher standard of performance. The factor that does making driving cars harder however is there are more variables in any given journey. Therefore the issue I see is not so much what vehicle is harder to operate rather the question is what task is easier to automate into an algorithm? What needs to be considered is certain tasks - which can be complex for humans - can be easily automated whereas there are other processes that are easily performed by humans that are difficult for computers emulate.

For example from my understanding setting controls, flight paths and dimensions whilst complicated affairs seem to be more geared towards automation as those tasks involve processes that can be formulated more easily as they seem to follow a set process. When you have variable conditions in terms of traffic, weather and road surfaces then the number of variables means that you must employ some sort of heuristic principle as finding the optimal solution to a problem becomes difficult to impossible. This is especially true if the correct decision needs to be made under a severe time constraint as seen in the RE example.

Applying heuristics or in other words common sense is not something that is easily programmable and is a reason why driving COULD be harder to automate despite the fact it is easier to operate a car from a pure mechanics point of view. We got to remember that some jobs which seem easy to us such as a cleaner are harder to automate whereas more complex jobs for humans such as accounting are easier to automate as the processes involved in accounting lend itself to being automated easier. It all boils down to whether a job is suited to the strengths of AI or natural human intelligence that determines the ease in which it can be automated.

Offline JRM

  • Sous Chef
  • ****
  • Posts: 4502
    • View Profile
Re: Tesla Is A Zero - Karl Denninger
« Reply #48 on: July 02, 2016, 07:23:28 AM »
But learning to fly a plane is a difficult motherfucker.

Actually, RE was spot on. After all, we were discussing a plane on autopilot, not in a dogfight in WWII.  Autopilot systems are based on all sorts of assumptions about conditions which can be trusted to be the case the overwhelming majority of the time. It's not entirely unlike having a car on cruise control on a perfectly straight and level highway that goes on without interruption in this straight and level way for many hours. A guy could use his knees to hold the wheel ... nod off, and drive for miles like this if he doesn't tend to roll around much in his sleep. This bears no resemblance to driving in an urban or suburban environment (though I did exaggerate ever so slightly to make my point).  There are no intersections up there, no curves, no dogs or deer or cows or kids or skateboards or bicycles or baby carriages... there are even no birds at those elevations. There is NOTHING. NOTHING. JUST air.  Sheesh.

No, he is wrong. As are you.
Autos don't have a variety of control surfaces to learn about and manage in real time. A pilot has to operate in three spatial dimensions, go through specific sequences and procedures during normal operations, think about the weather, communicate with ATC, etc.

And there's the taking off and landing thingy.

With driving, you learn rules, regulations, and most importantly -- learning to drive (ex. maneuver, park, change lanes, merge, etc.). With flying -- while maneuvering the aircraft is not as difficult (ex. basic turns, descents, climbs), landing is far more challenging than, say, parallel parking. In a plane you have three axes of control--roll, pitch and yaw, and you have to control all three at once. The FAA has Practical Testing Standards, which specifies what you must proficiently demonstrate on your Practical Test (aka. "Checkride"). Such basic maneuvers include steep turns, power-on/power-off stalls, short field/soft field takeoff/landing, and emergency descents. A pilot must also learn to plan a route of flight, file a flight plan, interpret weather data, and communicate with Air Traffic Control and other aircraft, scan for other traffic, and learn at least some flight physiology (how altitude affects the body), and rules and regs pertaining to FAA.

Flying is not just about maneuvering a piece of metal in the sky... so I consider it more complex than learning to drive). Operating the respective vehicles may be comparable, but learning about weather, regulations, performance, navigation, etc. makes learning to fly a plane far more demanding than driving a car. As your and REs stories show (and I have a couple myself), you can lose control of a vehicle and walk away intact, or drive out of a snowbank. With flying, you can't stop and pull-over... if you fuck up, you're dead.

No. I really do not believe I and RE are wrong at all about the actual point we were making --which has little to do with learning and has much more to do with the kind and level of complexity of the two very different environments in question.  The actual and potential complexities which an artificial intelligence control system must navigate in a car in a city or suburb is greatly more challenging to such systems than normal flying conditions.  Such systems are MUCH better suited to the sort of thing a plane does at cruising altitude than the sort of thing a car driver must do. This is so in large part because the basic physics of flight is somewhat easily translatable into a consistent (unchanging) set of "if, then" computer commands.  ("If this happens, always do this.") Those may be multiple and overlapping, but honestly anyone who thinks the set of If/Then commands for a jet plane at cruising altitude is on a similar level of complexity as the If-Then commands would be for a carbot navigating a busy city or suburb ... simply hasn't begun to comprehend the outrageous challenge of programming an AI device to navigate a city as well or better than a human driver.

No. I am NOT wrong. Not even close.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2016, 07:26:42 AM by JRM »
My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

Offline JRM

  • Sous Chef
  • ****
  • Posts: 4502
    • View Profile
Re: Tesla Is A Zero - Karl Denninger
« Reply #49 on: July 02, 2016, 07:37:54 AM »
With driving, you learn rules, regulations, and most importantly -- learning to drive (ex. maneuver, park, change lanes, merge, etc.). With flying -- while maneuvering the aircraft is not as difficult (ex. basic turns, descents, climbs), landing is far more challenging than, say, parallel parking. In a plane you have three axes of control--roll, pitch and yaw, and you have to control all three at once. The FAA has Practical Testing Standards, which specifies what you must proficiently demonstrate on your Practical Test (aka. "Checkride"). Such basic maneuvers include steep turns, power-on/power-off stalls, short field/soft field takeoff/landing, and emergency descents. A pilot must also learn to plan a route of flight, file a flight plan, interpret weather data, and communicate with Air Traffic Control and other aircraft, scan for other traffic, and learn at least some flight physiology (how altitude affects the body), and rules and regs pertaining to FAA.

I am no expert but let me put my views as others have done. Piloting a plane, at least from the mechanical aspect is harder than a car due to increased range of controls and dimensions the aircraft can operate. In addition the tolerance for failure on aircraft is lower than cars so operators are held to a higher standard of performance. The factor that does making driving cars harder however is there are more variables in any given journey. Therefore the issue I see is not so much what vehicle is harder to operate rather the question is what task is easier to automate into an algorithm? What needs to be considered is certain tasks - which can be complex for humans - can be easily automated whereas there are other processes that are easily performed by humans that are difficult for computers emulate.

For example from my understanding setting controls, flight paths and dimensions whilst complicated affairs seem to be more geared towards automation as those tasks involve processes that can be formulated more easily as they seem to follow a set process. When you have variable conditions in terms of traffic, weather and road surfaces then the number of variables means that you must employ some sort of heuristic principle as finding the optimal solution to a problem becomes difficult to impossible. This is especially true if the correct decision needs to be made under a severe time constraint as seen in the RE example.

Applying heuristics or in other words common sense is not something that is easily programmable and is a reason why driving COULD be harder to automate despite the fact it is easier to operate a car from a pure mechanics point of view. We got to remember that some jobs which seem easy to us such as a cleaner are harder to automate whereas more complex jobs for humans such as accounting are easier to automate as the processes involved in accounting lend itself to being automated easier. It all boils down to whether a job is suited to the strengths of AI or natural human intelligence that determines the ease in which it can be automated.

Well said, Monsta.

What is at stake is just what Monsta said here. 

A jet at cruising altitude will never have to decide whether to swerve to miss a shopping cart ... or go ahead and hit the shopping cart to avoid hitting the kid on the skateboard. It will not even have to know how to recognize a shopping cart or a skateboard!  There are no shopping carts or skateboards up there.  In fact, at that elevation there is usually (overwhelmingly so) only air up there -- in every direction. Just air. And gravity -- which has a functionally static direction -- always toward the center of the Earth.  Such an environment is a DREAM for makers of AI If/Then algorithms / control systems.  By comparison a city or suburban street ... or even a country road or highway is a NIGHTMARE of unsolvable complexity.  A city street is a buzzing, blooming confusion compared to open air and constant gravity and an unchanging formula for how flight ALWAYS works.
My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

Offline JRM

  • Sous Chef
  • ****
  • Posts: 4502
    • View Profile
Re: Tesla Is A Zero - Karl Denninger
« Reply #50 on: July 02, 2016, 07:48:04 AM »

Ben Goertzel | Artificial General Intelligence: An Overview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7c89EepVOI
My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

Offline azozeo

  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 9741
    • View Profile
Re: Tesla Is A Zero - Karl Denninger
« Reply #51 on: July 02, 2016, 01:38:56 PM »
Eddie, it's not personal.

I don't know EVERYTHING about "autopilot" on jet planes.  My impression is that a pilot and co-pilot could conceivably each get up and go to the john and pour coffee and the whole thing will fly itself for a while without a mishap.  I may have that all wrong.  But what I'm pretty sure I have one thing right, and that's the fact that driving in a suburb or a city presents automated, computerized systems with a great many challenges which jet planes at "cruising altitude" don't have to contend with. 

I apologize for driving my point home so strongly. It's true that there is much I do not know about either of these systems -- in cars or in planes.  I just thought it was obvious (perhaps it is not?) that an automated car has got a lot more to contend with in the way of potential problems than a jet plane at cruising altitude.

I tend also to be suspicious of the "data" on driverless cars.  But I do admit I may be wrong about all of it. I'm not an expert by any means  -- in either example.


The pilots flying the chemtrail aircraft are in the cockpit for 1 purpose.
Landing & takeoff...
The computers do the rest.
Those cats are highly paid takeoff & landing specialists.
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain, but you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life, that there’s something wrong with the world.
You don’t know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 41390
    • View Profile
Can we trust driverless cars?
« Reply #52 on: July 02, 2016, 08:44:46 PM »
I highlighted the critical problem.  Highways are a bit like airspace, although slightly more complicated by changing conditions.  City streets though are infinitely more complex, and the AI just is not there to make the decisions fast enough.

Surly makes points about airplanes having more control surfaces, but that is not the problem here.  An AI can handle multiple surfaces and multiple dimensions better than a Homo Sap in most circumstances.  It's all pretty predictable.  The problem for the city streets is a multiplicity of changing obstacles, which planes simply do not have to deal with.

The problem with these systems is that despite the obvious limitations, people who have them installed on their carz will use them in inappropriate curcumstances.  While it might work great on the highway with well painted lines, when you exit the highway and there is construction going on and a Detour Sign, the AI just won't recognize all of it.  But the Rider here will be Bizzy watching a Harry Potter movie.  Recipe for DEATH.

RE

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=1198&sid=40480882

Michael Probst, AP Photo, File
Can we trust driverless cars?
By Peter Valdes-Dapena, CNN   |  Posted Jul 2nd, 2016 @ 8:33pm

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) — It was bound to happen. Someday, someone would be the first to die in a computer-driven vehicle. Joshua Brown died in a horrific crash on a Florida road while, apparently, relying on his Tesla's Autopilot system.

The Autopilot system, which uses sensors and cameras to detect potential obstacles in the road ahead, didn't see a truck turning left in front of Brown's car, and never applied the brakes, according to Tesla's own blog post on the incident.

Does this failure mean we shouldn't trust autonomous cars?

Not so fast -- in the U.S. alone, roughly 90 people die in car crashes involving human drivers every day.

While autonomous vehicle technology isn't perfect, and may never be, most experts agree that it has the potential to be far, far safer than human drivers.

Autonomous-driving technology has already been credited with saving lives. Most notably, safety regulators and major automakers have agreed to make automatic braking -- which detects when a vehicle ahead stops and automatically applies the brakes if the driver doesn't -- standard equipment on all new cars.
Advertise with us
Report this ad

Statistics show that this technology can prevent dangerous crashes that, in 2012, caused 1,700 deaths and half-a-million injuries in the U.S. Of course, no one claims it can prevent every crash.

When sensor technologies like this are combined with others, something emerges that's very much like autonomous driving.

For instance, many cars today also have lane-keeping assistance features. This technology uses cameras to detect lane lines on the road. Tiny electric motors attached to the car's steering mechanisms move the car back to the center of the lane when it veers. Some of these systems work better than others and, in my experience, none of them work well when lane lines are hard to see or aren't there at all.

When combined with so-called "active cruise control," systems that use cameras, radar and other sensors to detect vehicles on the road ahead and maintain a safe following distance, a driver could, theoretically, drive on a highway without actively steering or touching the gas or brake pedals.

Mercedes-Benz and Infiniti, among others, offer systems like this in their cars today. One key aspect of their systems, though, is that the driver must keep hands on the steering wheel at all times. If I were to take my hands away for even a few seconds, the car would remind me to grab the wheel again. Otherwise, the system would quit and I'd have to take full control.

These systems have become very sophisticated and work well on highways, even in stop-and-go traffic. But they aren't designed to handle city streets or complex intersections.

Many automakers and technology companies are trying to make autonomous cars work well in cities. BMW recently announced that it will have city-capable autonomous cars by 2021.

The highway where Brown died was particularly problematic, because it allows left turns across traffic without traffic lights. That combines the hazards of both cities and highways. Situations like this are a challenge for human drivers as well as the engineers that design autonomous cars.

Copyright 2016 Cable News Network. Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Save As Many As You Can

Offline azozeo

  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 9741
    • View Profile
Re: Tesla Is A Zero - Karl Denninger
« Reply #53 on: July 03, 2016, 11:06:27 AM »
Anything AI is in charge of is No Bueno.

Do we trust cyber currencies ? Ne-oooo    :emthdown:
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain, but you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life, that there’s something wrong with the world.
You don’t know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

Offline Eddie

  • Global Moderator
  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 19406
    • View Profile
Re: Tesla Is A Zero - Karl Denninger
« Reply #54 on: July 03, 2016, 11:20:36 AM »
I'm not a huge fan of AI, but the handwriting is on the wall on this one, as long as the oil keeps flowing. If the truck that hit the Teslas had been self-driving, the accident wouldn't have happened. The cars will soon be able to communicate with each other, and this kind accident won't happen.

It's like the automobile causing horses to go crazy in 1900. People were killed when the horses bolted as a result of the noise and smoke. It was a problem for a few years, until nobody had a horse anymore.

Even my Volt has a warning system, tells me I'm about to rear-end somebody every time a car suddenly slows in front of me. It's a pain in the ass, until it keeps me from having an accident.

Proponents say driverless car tech will save 300,000 lives over a decade. Does that mean zero accidents? No. just fewer accidents.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2016, 04:38:24 PM by Eddie »
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 41390
    • View Profile
Joshua Brown Nominated for 2016 Darwin Award
« Reply #55 on: July 05, 2016, 01:37:22 AM »

RE

http://grist.org/news/harry-potter-implicated-in-first-driverless-car-death/

Harry Potter implicated in first driverless car death
By Katie Herzog on Jul 1, 2016


A man died in a car crash while his Tesla sedan was in autopilot mode, the company announced on Thursday. It was the first known fatality involving a self-driving vehicle.

The accident, which occurred in on a Florida highway in May, killed Joshua Brown, 40, a former Navy SEAL from Ohio. Traffic safety regulators opened an investigation into the collision. Tesla described the accident on its website:

    What we know is that the vehicle was on a divided highway with Autopilot engaged when a tractor trailer drove across the highway perpendicular to the Model S. Neither Autopilot nor the driver noticed the white side of the tractor trailer against a brightly lit sky, so the brake was not applied. The high ride height of the trailer combined with its positioning across the road and the extremely rare circumstances of the impact caused the Model S to pass under the trailer, with the bottom of the trailer impacting the windshield of the Model S.

Brown was an advocate for self-driving technology and maintained a YouTube page with videos of his Tesla Model S driving on autopilot. One video, now viewed more than 2 million times, shows his Tesla — which he called “Tessy” — narrowly avoiding a collision. “Tessy did great,” Brown wrote in a caption under the video. “I have done a lot of testing with the sensors in the car and the software capabilities. I have always been impressed with the car, but I had not tested the car’s side collision avoidance. I am VERY impressed.”

While Tesla recommends that drivers keep their hands on the wheel at all times, even while autopilot is engaged, Brown, according to the driver of the tractor trailer, was watching a Harry Potter film at the time of the accident. “It was still playing when he died and snapped a telephone pole a quarter mile down the road,” driver Frank Baressi said in an interview with the Associated Press. A portable DVD player was found in the car after the accident.

While self-driving vehicles have been heralded by some technologists as safer and more efficient than standard vehicles, others argue that the technology could have major negative impacts on transportation systems — including by putting more cars on the road. One study found that automated technology could increase vehicle miles traveled by as much as 60 percent. As Roland Hwang, director of the Natural Resources Defense Council’s transportation program, put it, “There’s a utopian vision of what this looks like, but there’s also a dystopian vision.”
Save As Many As You Can

Offline Eddie

  • Global Moderator
  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 19406
    • View Profile
Re: Tesla Is A Zero - Karl Denninger
« Reply #56 on: July 05, 2016, 08:35:52 AM »
The life of a test pilot is a dangerous one. One minute you're watching Harry Potter, and the next, you're being decapitated by Death, riding on a pale semi trailer.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 41390
    • View Profile
Tesla Autopilot Wrecks Another One
« Reply #57 on: July 05, 2016, 05:16:48 PM »
How many more of these wrecks can Tesla take before Ralph Nader files a Class Action lawsuit?  ???  :icon_scratch:


RE

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-05/tsla-drops-report-another-autopilot-mode-crash-and-rollover

Tesla Drops On Report Of Another "Autopilot" Crash And Rollover

Jul 5, 2016 5:44 PM

Last week, Tesla stock tumbled after it was belatedly revealed that a driver had been killed while his 2015 Model S, which had been in self-driving mode, failed to notice a turning truck and crashed into it head on, killing the driver (who may have been watching a Harry Potter DVD at the time). This led to bizarre developments: Fortune Magazine published a story in which it reported that on May 18, eleven days after Brown died, Tesla and CEO Elon Musk, in combination (roughly three parts Tesla, one part Musk), sold more than $2 billion of Tesla stock in a public offering at a price of $215 per share without ever having released a word about the crash.

This promptly led to a mini meltdown on Twitter by none other than Elon Musk, who far from coming off as a visionary geneius, instead quickly devolved into a pennystock hustler, for whom the "market response" is all that matters:

Today during the afterhours session, TSLA is once again dipping lower on a report in the Detroit Free Press that a local art gallery owner told police his 2016 Tesla Model X was in Autopilot mode when it crashed and rolled over on the Pennsylvania Turnpike last week.

The crash came just one day after the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration issued a report on a fatal crash in May involving a Tesla that was in self-driving mode.

The good news: both Albert Scaglione and his artist son-in-law, Tim Yanke,  survived Thursday's crash near the Bedford exit, about 107 miles east of Pittsburgh.

The bad news: this is yet another example of a Tesla crashing in "self-driving" mode.

According to the DFP, Dale Vukovich of the Pennslvania State Police, who responded to the crash, said Scaglione told him that he had activated the Autopilot feature. In his crash report Vukovich stated that Scaglione's car was traveling east, near mile marker 160, about 5 p.m. when it hit a guard rail "off the right side of the roadway. It than crossed over the eastbound lanes and hit the concrete median."

After that the Tesla Model X rolled onto its roof and came to rest in the middle east bound lane. A 2013 Infiniti G37 driven in the westbound lane by Thomas Hess of West Chester, Pa., was struck by debris from the Scaglione car, but neither he nor his passenger were hurt.

Vukovich said he likely will cite Scaglione after he completes his investigation, but he declined to specify the charge. To be sure there is always the possibility that the driver is scapegoating the car for a human error, which can be quickly confirmed or denied.

As the DFP also notes, there's not enough evidence to indicate that Tesla's Autopilot malfunctioned, although the investigation is surely just starting, as is far greater focus on TSLA's autopilot feature including its alleged safety.

Last Wednesday, the NHTSA announced it is investigating the design and performance of the Autopilot system after the abovementioned death of Joshua Brown, 40, who died in May 7 in Florida when his 2015 Tesla Model S hit a semi-truck while in self-driving mode, The federal agency said both the driver and the Autopilot system failed to detect the large tractor-trailer making a left turn in front of him,

But the driver of the truck said there was a Harry Potter video still running when the Tesla came to a stop about a quarter-mile from the impact.

Tesla says that before Autopilot can be used, drivers have to acknowledge that the system is an "assist feature" that requires a driver to keep both hands on the wheel at all times. Drivers are told they need to "maintain control and responsibility for your vehicle" while using the system, and they have to be prepared to take over at any time.

Later this month, NHTSA, which is authorized to set the safety rules for increasingly autonomous vehicles, will issue guidelines intended to set the near-term rules of the road in autonomous vehicle research.
Save As Many As You Can

Offline agelbert

  • Global Moderator
  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 11820
    • View Profile
    • Renewable Rervolution
Re: Tesla Is A Zero - Karl Denninger
« Reply #58 on: July 05, 2016, 05:34:59 PM »
Agelbert will be happy to pose as a simulated autopilot for any tesla. I will hide in the front trunk with a laptop, a peep hole and a joystick for tesla owners from 9:00 A.M. to 5:00 P.M. (plus lunch breaks).  :icon_mrgreen:


Leges         Sine    Moribus      Vanae   
Faith,
if it has not works, is dead, being alone.

Offline agelbert

  • Global Moderator
  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 11820
    • View Profile
    • Renewable Rervolution
Re: Tesla Is A Zero - Karl Denninger
« Reply #59 on: July 05, 2016, 05:45:00 PM »
How many more of these wrecks can Tesla take before Ralph Nader files a Class Action lawsuit?  ???  :icon_scratch:


RE

Well, we've been dealing with these for almost a century without any pesky regulatory action or Ralph Nader Class Action lawsuits.  :icon_sunny:


Perspective is an amazing thing. Too bad Zero hedge doesn't have it.  ;)

Soon we will all be able to return to our safe vehicles that carry 10 to 20 gallons of that harmless substance called gasoline. 

Leges         Sine    Moribus      Vanae   
Faith,
if it has not works, is dead, being alone.

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
20 Replies
6622 Views
Last post November 16, 2013, 11:40:03 PM
by illdill
3 Replies
849 Views
Last post February 07, 2015, 04:24:41 PM
by MKing
1 Replies
612 Views
Last post January 29, 2018, 06:46:36 PM
by Palloy2