AuthorTopic: Larry Elder On Racism In America  (Read 4758 times)

Offline K-Dog

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Re: Larry Elder On Racism In America
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2019, 09:52:48 AM »
No answer from the rabid ideologue?

"Ideolgue" is no longer an epithet on the Diner.  Everybody's an ideologue of one sort or another.

RE

It could be the rank of a new kind of chef.  They can make sure the foil wrapped mints at the front counter are stocked.
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline knarf

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Re: Larry Elder On Racism In America
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2019, 12:13:35 PM »
  Well, joining the monastery, only made the goal of the work different. Honestly, we run the monastery much like the radio announcer suggested. DO YOUR WORK! If you need help ask for it. DON'T GET A GIRL PREGNANT! One of my favorite monks fell out because of that one. NO EXCUSES with/or PREACHING AT OTHER MONKS! No blaming anyone for the fix you got yourself in.
  I guess the formula for success is similar to Larrie's fix. It works here. But I don't think it would work if it were a free market system. We would have the same envy that is rampant in America. So you just relinquish all you own, and the money that we make is distributed equally. 
What if after the revolution, we make it illegal to own anything. :)
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Offline Eddie

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Re: Larry Elder On Racism In America
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2019, 01:02:50 PM »
It just turns into Cuba, where housing is assigned, but not all housing is assigned equally.



Your assigned quarters.



Che's assigned quarters.

All food is equal, but Castro was way too busy to eat in the cafeteria so it only made sense for him to have cook, and besides, he couldn't trust the staff not to poison him, so having his own chef was necessary for security.....there are a million ways to beat the system if you're connected.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 02:06:22 PM by Eddie »
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Offline RE

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« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2019, 03:30:46 PM »
The SJWs do want this.

If you didn't notice, prior to dropping in to pitch his fundamentalist capitalist doctrine and anti-socialist bashing, Watson was quite scarce around the Diner for a couple of weeks.  He dropped in to back slap Eddie on the money thread, but prior to that his last real posting was in the Capitalism & Christianity thread, two of his favorite topics.  Posting every day in this thread, more than once a day.

When the thread petered out, Watson disappeared, not even showing up in the online members list.  But then , magically, as soon as a new thread popped up with a theme about the "radical left" and feminism (one of Eddie's favorite pet peeves), Watson turned up immediately in the list of online members!  How is that possible?  Is he clairvoyant?  Of course not.

Watson lurks on the Diner without signing in unless there is something he wants to drop a turd on.  The two main triggers for him posting up are:

1- Anything with Jordan Peterson as a subject for discussion

2- Anything about the left-right divide and Socialism vs Capitalism.

Watson waits for a thread like this to become active, then in he comes to POUNCE on it!

This type of posting pattern is the signature of a Troll.  He is only concerned with promoting his own agenda, not with what the site is about.

You see, Watson isn't really interested in Collapse anymore, he's interested in promoting his political agenda of fundy capitalism. He doesn't participate meaningfully in any of the other areas the Diner is concerned with, not Geopolitics, not Energy, not Climate, not Environment, not droughts or floods, not sociological phenomena like shooters or suicides.

This, as I informed him a while back is a violation of the CoC.  Diners should have an interest in and contribute meaningfully to at least a few of the topics we cover.  So I am invoking the CoC here, and no further posting on this topic or similar ones by Watson will be permitted until he has contributed an original and meaningful post in at least two other topic areas.  Other Admins should note this.

RE
Capo di Tutti Capos
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 05:28:06 PM by RE »
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Offline RE

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Re: Larry Elder On Racism In America
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2019, 03:57:15 PM »
No...they are most definitely FAR to the left, and will be taking the country there too, if they can put together a real party. Right now they're just another splinter in an already very splintered and delusional party. They didn't just learn what they know in college. They learned it from the flawed  agenda the Dems have pursued for a generation already.

Once upon a time, back clouded in the mists of history, there was a left in the FSoA.  From about the mid-1920s to the mid-1930s.  At the time, the Demodope Party was a left wing party, of the moderate kind,  It brought us such things as the New Deal, Social Security, The Tennessee Valley Authority and the Civilian Conservation Corps.  It sponsored projects that provided jobs and helped to insure no Amerikan was left begging in the street when they became too old or crippled to work anymore.

That demodope party is no more, it was systematically destroyed by the Pinkertons, the FBI and Joe McCarthy on the political end, but even more effectively by the propaganda published in the school history books and in the mass media organs of the newspapers and then TV and Radio later.  All said publishers and publications being mouthpieces for the Elite and owned by them

In it's place a NEW Demodope party emerged, a wholly ineffective and confused one, which is exactly what the Elite were after.  It also was set up to pit one race against the other and take the eye off the ball of the real problems of maldistribution of wealth and the commonalities all workers of any race have.  Social movements of Civil Rights and Women's Liberation played right into this, and there were many reasons for those things too numerous to discuss here.  Suffice it to say the Demodope Party turned into one concerned with the racial and gender divides, not with the economics of the society.  In this area, the Demodopes are no different from the Repugnants, they take money and sell their votes to the same corporate lobbyists and promote the same agenda of capitalism.  They don't advocate any real substantive change, like nationalizing industries, taking away corporate personhood, decertifying Da Fed, abolishing Private Property, etc.  THAT is left wing stuff.  Jacking up taxes a little higher does not make you a lefty.

Left is not about racial politics and it's not about gender identity, gun control, abortion rights, civil war statues or public bathroom facilities and who gets to shit where.  It's about economics, and it's not addressed by anyone in either major party, every mainstream politician spouts capitalist doctrine and paints pictures of "growth", because to do anything else is commiting political suicide considering how effectively the Amerikan Public has been brainwashed.

So, it's not feminists like AOC who have screwed up the Demodope party so badly with their agenda, it's that the Demodope party is DESIGNED to bring politians with these agendas into the mix, to keep the whole bizness confused and the eye of the public off the ball.  Confusing cause and effect further exacerbates this problem.

RE
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Offline Surly1

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Re: Larry Elder On Racism In America
« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2019, 04:56:09 PM »
No...they are most definitely FAR to the left, and will be taking the country there too, if they can put together a real party. Right now they're just another splinter in an already very splintered and delusional party. They didn't just learn what they know in college. They learned it from the flawed  agenda the Dems have pursued for a generation already.

Once upon a time, back clouded in the mists of history, there was a left in the FSoA.  From about the mid-1920s to the mid-1930s.  At the time, the Demodope Party was a left wing party, of the moderate kind,  It brought us such things as the New Deal, Social Security, The Tennessee Valley Authority and the Civilian Conservation Corps.  It sponsored projects that provided jobs and helped to insure no Amerikan was left begging in the street when they became too old or crippled to work anymore.

That demodope party is no more, it was systematically destroyed by the Pinkertons, the FBI and Joe McCarthy on the political end, but even more effectively by the propaganda published in the school history books and in the mass media organs of the newspapers and then TV and Radio later.  All said publishers and publications being mouthpieces for the Elite and owned by them

In it's place a NEW Demodope party emerged, a wholly ineffective and confused one, which is exactly what the Elite were after.  It also was set up to pit one race against the other and take the eye off the ball of the real problems of maldistribution of wealth and the commonalities all workers of any race have.  Social movements of Civil Rights and Women's Liberation played right into this, and there were many reasons for those things too numerous to discuss here.  Suffice it to say the Demodope Party turned into one concerned with the racial and gender divides, not with the economics of the society.  In this area, the Demodopes are no different from the Repugnants, they take money and sell their votes to the same corporate lobbyists and promote the same agenda of capitalism.  They don't advocate any real substantive change, like nationalizing industries, taking away corporate personhood, decertifying Da Fed, abolishing Private Property, etc.  THAT is left wing stuff.  Jacking up taxes a little higher does not make you a lefty.

Left is not about racial politics and it's not about gender identity, gun control, abortion rights, civil war statues or public bathroom facilities and who gets to shit where.  It's about economics, and it's not addressed by anyone in either major party, every mainstream politician spouts capitalist doctrine and paints pictures of "growth", because to do anything else is commiting political suicide considering how effectively the Amerikan Public has been brainwashed.

So, it's not feminists like AOC who have screwed up the Demodope party so badly with their agenda, it's that the Demodope party is DESIGNED to bring politians with these agendas into the mix, to keep the whole bizness confused and the eye of the public off the ball.  Confusing cause and effect further exacerbates this problem.

RE

Allow me to register my rejection of those who identify anything to the left of the local Chamber of Commerce as "extreme left." Although this belongs in the blogger threads, I'm posting it here because I saw it earlier today and it speaks directly to the themes you are addressing. I'm sick of liberals who won't punch back. It's by Charlie Pierce.

The Democrats Who Flinch at Every Republican Attack Should Listen to Ulysses S. Grant
Stop worrying about what Republicans are going to call you. They're going to call you that either way.


Congressional Democrats Announce Legislation To Lower Prescription Drug Prices
ALEX WONGGETTY IMAGES

One of my favorite anecdotes from the Civil War comes from the memoir written by Colonel Horace Porter, a Medal of Honor winner and an aide to Ulysses S. Grant. Porter recalls a moment after the horrible Union defeat that was the battle of the Wilderness in which Grant's officers were talking about the magical prowess of Robert E. Lee. Grant, fed up with paeans to the enemy general, finally lets loose on his staff.

According to Porter, Grant told his aides to shut up about Robert E. Lee.

A general officer came in from his command at this juncture, and said to the general-in-chief, speaking rapidly and laboring under considerable excitement: "General Grant, this is a crisis that cannot be looked upon too seriously. I know Lee's methods well by past experience ; he will throw his whole army between us and the Rapidan, and cut us off completely from our communications."
The general rose to his feet, took his cigar out of his mouth, turned to the officer, and replied, with a degree of animation which he seldom manifested : "Oh, I am heartily tired of hearing about what Lee is going to do. Some of you always seem to think he is suddenly going to turn a double somersault, and land in our rear and on both of our flanks at the same time. Go back to your command, and try to think what we are going to do ourselves, instead of what Lee is going to do."

This, I believe, is good advice for anyone involved in any sort of competition or contest. It certainly would have been helpful to the country had the Democratic Party heeded it for much of the past 40 years. So much of Democratic strategy has been drawn up out of fear of what the magical spinning power of the conservative media apparatus might do with it that good issue positions, good candidates, and good ideas got undermined by a predictable and permanent institutional flinch.

Recently, however, it appeared that the Democrats were getting that reflex under control. But they have not eliminated it entirely. Take, for example, this Tweet from former Obama campaign chief David Axelrod, now d/b/a a CNN pundit.

Here's what he's missing: there are a lot of subpoenas because all the evidence indicates that there are a lot of crimes within and without this administration*. And what does it matter if it "too easily plays" into a meme. The Republicans are going to use that meme anyway. The job of the investigators is to find the truth behind however many crimes can be found, and it is the job of the Democrats to make sure the country knows as much about them as is necessary to judge the president* and his party in subsequent elections. And taking one of the bigger sticks off the table before you get a chance to swing it is no way to do that.

If you see any Democrats soft-pedaling a massive approach to the climate crisis because somebody yells "socialism!", then you're seeing the flinch again. If you see any Democrats running away from reproductive rights because of this absurd "executing babies" trope that's become so popular recently, that's the flinch, too. Its source is a desire to reach people who long have been out of reach entirely. This is also true with the case of Rep. Ilhan Omar, Democrat of Minnesota.

image
Getty Images

The Democratic majority in the House of Representatives is preparing to act on a resolution condemning anti-Semitism, a measure prompted by some remarks Omar made regarding Israel that subsequently were made a meal of by opportunistic Republicans and angry and/or timid Democrats. (Her comments were inartful, truth be told. "Allegiance" is not the word to throw around idly in this context.) But the idea that, however clumsily expressed, opinions about this country's relations with a foreign country should be so beyond the prerogatives of a member of Congress that they should prompt a congressional resolution is ludicrous.

Nevertheless, one of Omar's Democratic colleagues, Juan Vargas of California, said precisely that on the electric Twitter machine.

Obviously, we are going to have to have a serious conversation about the limits of unquestioning support.

That the Republicans, the party of Steve King, would target Omar, a Somali refugee and one of the first Muslim women elected to Congress, was the easiest bet on the board. That this targeting would be energized in large part by pure bigotry was even more of a lock. But this resolution is pure capitulation by the Democratic majority.

We do not need another performative resolution against anti-Semitism just because somebody is raising performative hell against a freshman congresswoman. It is not going to stop the attacks on Rep. Omar. It is not going to stop the Republicans from making wild charges about any member of Congress who doesn't look like Steve King. This is tantamount to those clearly unconstitutional laws "banning" the BDS movement that are cropping up in the states, and which, being aimed at a specific and non-violent means of political protest, are so nakedly contrary to the First Amendment that their authors should be ashamed of themselves.

It's not going to be enough for Democrats to pass resolutions saying bad things are bad if they do so out of the fear that Republicans are still going to do double somersaults and land behind the Democratic lines and on both flanks. Stand by your people. Why not? Nothing else has worked.

"...reprehensible lying communist..."

Offline Surly1

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Re: Larry Elder On Racism In America
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2019, 05:56:09 PM »
The left wants everybody to be equal in EVERY way

No, the left does not want this.  What you don't understand about the left could fill an encyclopedia.  Making gross generalizations like that is a dead giveaway.

RE

The SJWs do want this. Although most people who identify as "on the left" would not say they are SJWs, most of them would not go out of their way to criticize the SJWs either. This is the major problem with the left in this country - they are so obsessed with attacking people to the right of them that they let the bullshit happening to the left of them go unchecked. They are also fearful of straying from the herd, which is a reasonable fear, because the SJWs will try to absolutely destroy any prominent person, especially a leftist, who strays from the motto of "diversity, inclusivity and equity".

If you ask most people on the left today, "what's wrong with equality of outcome?", they will either say "nothing is wrong with it" or struggle to articulate an answer to the question. This is a problem, because equality of outcome was one of the most pernicious doctrines of the 20th century and attempts to legislate it fail miserably AND cause a lot of destruction in the process. I would say the older generations of leftists simply avoid the question because of fear of being marked out by SJW types, even though they know the history and the reasons why it's a pernicious doctrine. Younger leftists today are totally ignorant of the history and now they are the ones trying to control the Democratic party.

Thank God people like AOC do not have enough sense to keep from exposing their own ignorance of the world so badly that their supporters can barely muster the motivation to keep defending them.

Every thought in this brief post is a lie. You have thankfully demonstrated your complete ignorance of the landscape of the left.
A tour de force, really.

The thought in your even briefer post is contradictory. How can my characterizations of the left landscape be a "lie" and completely ignorant at the same time? No answer from the rabid ideologue? That's what I thought.

Sorry, Fucko. I had to work today and am just getting around to your spoor. I know that like most infants, if you don't get the attention you insist on, your act out. Glad RE was here to change your diaper.

Like most of your fellow travelers, you view "da left" from behind your George Mason-informed, conservative-suburban evangelical frame, where anything that doesn't track with free market fundamentalism equates to Communism. If you had ever had anything really to do with leftists, you'd know that whenever you get three together, you get two different factions, and whenever you get a group together, you get a circular firing squad.

It's lamentable that you had to squat and pee on the Larry Elder thread, because, at Eddie's urging, I had listened to about half of it, and didn't find much to argue with. You, that's another matter.

You have demonstrated yourself in the past to be very intelligent, but if you choose to ignore evidence and choose everything on your plate from the right side of the cafeteria, you will consign yourself to irrelevance. Which you seem to be doing with enthusiasm. Not that I care.
"...reprehensible lying communist..."

Offline Surly1

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Re: Larry Elder On Racism In America
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2019, 06:06:51 PM »
That's why there is wealth inequality in the first goddamn place. ....some people have money that works for them and others do not. It's that simple. The more you accumulate, the more the deck gets stacked in your favor. Because rich powerful people have made sure of that.

I read the and I thought to myself, now this here is the nut of it. As in truth.

How do we know that the radio announcer isn't cherry picking data?

I don't. And in fact, I'm certain he did. I didn't post that video to agree with every conclusion he made. I posted it because he understands the real issues, and he rejects the bullshit arguments that come from the liberal party in this country that are constantly being pumped in media everywhere I look and by RE and Surly here.

I know they have it wrong, and I'm not afraid to confront them. That does not make me a greedy capitalist pig, as much as the small-minded peanut gallery around here wants to make me into that.

Translation: I'm doing really well here, and fuck anybody who might upset that. Your statement requires and enthusiastic misreading of the body of work posted here. Happy for you. Like your acolyte, your understanding of the left in this country is lacking. Not that it matters. You dismiss anything that might interfere with your comfort out of hand, and like most of us, cling furiously to anything that reinforces your prejudices.
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Offline K-Dog

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Re: Larry Elder On Racism In America
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2019, 07:43:38 PM »
 :happy1:
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Offline monsta666

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Re: Larry Elder On Racism In America
« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2019, 03:19:18 AM »
There is a lot of talk about certain American politicians or demographic groups (usually millennial) harboring left-wing ideologies but the reality is America is more to the right than ever before. In my eyes the Democrats are centre right whilst Republians is far right. There is no center nevermind left-wing politics in the United States and to suggest otherwise will simply distort people's ideas of what left really means. To anyone that disagrees I would challenge you to name radical left wing economic policies that are seriously be pushed by any of the mainstream political parties in the US. On the whole the amount of government sponsored welfare for citizens, workers rights, consumer protection is lower in the United States than in Europe and it should be noted that Europe is still mainly a capitalistic economy and certainly not a socialist country. In reality even the most left wing countries in Europe (the Scandinavian countries) have a mixed economy which is something I would term center economic policies.

The main issues I have observed in the last few years is political discourse in the US has become increasingly toxic and this toxic discussion has come about due to a number of factors, namely people (and political parties by extension) have become increasingly dogmatic in their ideologies. I do think on both sides of the spectrum people have become overly sensitive to various issues. Other things that have contributed has been the internet and social media. These platforms have provided benefits by bringing people together but have had the unintended effect of radicalizing certain viewpoints by making fringe ideas seem more common than normal and by facilitating the ability to only associate with like minded individuals to the exclusion of all other groups/viewpoints. That leads people to become less tolerant of alternate viewpoints and therefore becoming less capable of reaching compromises and general consensus which is needed to form a healthy democracy.

Offline Surly1

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Re: Larry Elder On Racism In America
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2019, 04:18:15 AM »
There is a lot of talk about certain American politicians or demographic groups (usually millennial) harboring left-wing ideologies but the reality is America is more to the right than ever before. In my eyes the Democrats are centre right whilst Republians is far right. There is no center nevermind left-wing politics in the United States and to suggest otherwise will simply distort people's ideas of what left really means. To anyone that disagrees I would challenge you to name radical left wing economic policies that are seriously be pushed by any of the mainstream political parties in the US. On the whole the amount of government sponsored welfare for citizens, workers rights, consumer protection is lower in the United States than in Europe and it should be noted that Europe is still mainly a capitalistic economy and certainly not a socialist country. In reality even the most left wing countries in Europe (the Scandinavian countries) have a mixed economy which is something I would term center economic policies.

The main issues I have observed in the last few years is political discourse in the US has become increasingly toxic and this toxic discussion has come about due to a number of factors, namely people (and political parties by extension) have become increasingly dogmatic in their ideologies. I do think on both sides of the spectrum people have become overly sensitive to various issues. Other things that have contributed has been the internet and social media. These platforms have provided benefits by bringing people together but have had the unintended effect of radicalizing certain viewpoints by making fringe ideas seem more common than normal and by facilitating the ability to only associate with like minded individuals to the exclusion of all other groups/viewpoints. That leads people to become less tolerant of alternate viewpoints and therefore becoming less capable of reaching compromises and general consensus which is needed to form a healthy democracy.

Good to see you back here, Monsta.

The counter-revolution in this country was joined when St. Reagan famously declared, "Government isn't the solution, government is the problem," thus signaling the private sector to gobble up the commons in every way that was legal, then purchase legislators to change the laws. And when that wasn't sufficient, capture the regulatory agencies and dismantle a web of citizen protections erected over decades. We saw that in Reagan's day wit the EPS and James Watt, and later Anne Burford Gorsuch, whose spawn is now Trump's first Supreme Court judge appointee.

And speaking of toxicity, trace that right to the feet of Newt Gingrich, who taught the R's to demonize the opposition and dehumanized the,. There can be not compromise with the Devil's Legions, can there? I utterly and completely reject the comforting but delusional "both sides" myth of blaming both parties equally for the current level of discourse. I hope this is self evident. If it is not, I kept the receipts and can adduce them if needed.
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Offline knarf

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Re: Larry Elder On Racism In America
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2019, 05:34:42 AM »
There is a lot of talk about certain American politicians or demographic groups (usually millennial) harboring left-wing ideologies but the reality is America is more to the right than ever before. In my eyes the Democrats are centre right whilst Republians is far right. There is no center nevermind left-wing politics in the United States and to suggest otherwise will simply distort people's ideas of what left really means. To anyone that disagrees I would challenge you to name radical left wing economic policies that are seriously be pushed by any of the mainstream political parties in the US. On the whole the amount of government sponsored welfare for citizens, workers rights, consumer protection is lower in the United States than in Europe and it should be noted that Europe is still mainly a capitalistic economy and certainly not a socialist country. In reality even the most left wing countries in Europe (the Scandinavian countries) have a mixed economy which is something I would term center economic policies.

The main issues I have observed in the last few years is political discourse in the US has become increasingly toxic and this toxic discussion has come about due to a number of factors, namely people (and political parties by extension) have become increasingly dogmatic in their ideologies. I do think on both sides of the spectrum people have become overly sensitive to various issues. Other things that have contributed has been the internet and social media. These platforms have provided benefits by bringing people together but have had the unintended effect of radicalizing certain viewpoints by making fringe ideas seem more common than normal and by facilitating the ability to only associate with like minded individuals to the exclusion of all other groups/viewpoints. That leads people to become less tolerant of alternate viewpoints and therefore becoming less capable of reaching compromises and general consensus which is needed to form a healthy democracy.

This toxic nature of our discussion is about as civil as it gets here in the FSoA these days. I sometimes think there is going to be a civil war or martial law imposed in the next couple years. Are you in Britain? Have you followed the "Extinction Rebellion"? They are hitting the streets in all our major cities here April 15th. Have they made any impact in England at all?
  Global Warming is changing the way Americans are behaving. There only a handful of people that might be optimistic about the future. ( oh, and Trump's Base)  It must be so in Britain too?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 07:06:32 AM by knarf »
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Offline Eddie

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Re: Larry Elder On Racism In America
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2019, 06:49:13 AM »
There is a lot of talk about certain American politicians or demographic groups (usually millennial) harboring left-wing ideologies but the reality is America is more to the right than ever before. In my eyes the Democrats are centre right whilst Republians is far right. There is no center nevermind left-wing politics in the United States and to suggest otherwise will simply distort people's ideas of what left really means. To anyone that disagrees I would challenge you to name radical left wing economic policies that are seriously be pushed by any of the mainstream political parties in the US. On the whole the amount of government sponsored welfare for citizens, workers rights, consumer protection is lower in the United States than in Europe and it should be noted that Europe is still mainly a capitalistic economy and certainly not a socialist country. In reality even the most left wing countries in Europe (the Scandinavian countries) have a mixed economy which is something I would term center economic policies.

The main issues I have observed in the last few years is political discourse in the US has become increasingly toxic and this toxic discussion has come about due to a number of factors, namely people (and political parties by extension) have become increasingly dogmatic in their ideologies. I do think on both sides of the spectrum people have become overly sensitive to various issues. Other things that have contributed has been the internet and social media. These platforms have provided benefits by bringing people together but have had the unintended effect of radicalizing certain viewpoints by making fringe ideas seem more common than normal and by facilitating the ability to only associate with like minded individuals to the exclusion of all other groups/viewpoints. That leads people to become less tolerant of alternate viewpoints and therefore becoming less capable of reaching compromises and general consensus which is needed to form a healthy democracy.

Okay, the waters have gotten muddy here. I doubt I can clarify anything to anybody's satisfaction, but somebody should try.

First:

it should be noted that Europe is still mainly a capitalistic economy and certainly not a socialist country.

This amounts to a Freudian slip, just thought I'd point that out.

 Europe isn't a country at all. It is certainly run by capitalists, but social welfare programs, for a variety of reasons (not the least of which is the legacy of two world wars) are more prevalent than here, and more so in some places than others. And, socialist and communist political parties are part of the political mix.

In my eyes the Democrats are centre right whilst Republians is far right.

The last part is correct. Republicans are far right, and getting even further right with every passing election cycle....because the emotional issues that have galvanized that party are the most extreme...abortion and immigration being the favorite political hot potatoes.

You would have been right about the Democrats a few years back, but that's changing rapidly. Under the Clintons and even under Obama, the Democrats were fairly united under their neo-liberal globalist leadership, and at that time your depiction of them would have been spot on.

That faction is center right, and they only pay the slightest lip service to the problems of the poor, working class people, ethnic minorities, and in fact most of their base, while supporting world-wide American hegemony abroad  and corporatism at home.

But, because of the abandonment of the white working class by the Demo leadership in the cold-hearted pursuit of votes, the party has become increasingly dysfunctional and splintered, and this had led to a great deal of the extremism on both sides that is so prevalent now. Because the lost white base is acting against their own interests...but it's a response to their formerly preferred party letting them bear the brunt of the downsides of the neoliberal agenda, off-shoring of menial jobs and liberal immigration policies that brought in cheaper engineers and other higher level tech workers.

For the Democratic Party leadership, it was always just about votes. They had these other hot potato issues they used to try to galvanize the sleeping, growing brown minority that their demographers told them were their NEW base. Minority rights, affirmative action, some free medical bennies and free food for those who could somehow show they were single parents and living in abject poverty.

The benefit system, which was never intended to be more than a bone thrown to the dogs of society, had the unintended consequence of abolishing marriage as an institution, which destabilized society more than the scant benefits to the poor ever stabilized it. Woopsie.

The rising wealth inequality that was a direct result  of both the Republicans and the center-right Democratic parties is now leading to a splintering of the Democrats.

The abandoned low-functioning, poorly educated whites are voting for Republican populists who promise a return to the glory days of American industry, when we made a lot of steel and and lot of cars and working people had medical insurance. It's the dumb people, cutting off their nose to spite their faces.

Among these people are a lot of Christian religious faithful who have been stirred up by the abortion-haters.....and white menials are more than willing to blame job losses on immigration, even though that's only part of the equation.

Now the lesser-abled of the college educated blacks,whites, and hispanics have fallen under the wheel, and they are getting told in school about the evils of wealth inequality, and graduating with mounting debt and worsening life prospects.  They are most definitely leaning MUCH more left than the college grads of the past.

They have grown up being indoctrinated in public school to believe in the distorted "policies of equality" of the Democratic party. Special rights for special people, in other words. It started out as a bold social experiment in 1965, but it morphed into "Rights for Everybody"......(except of course the patriarchal white males they blamed for all the problems).

The special people have been taught to keep making demands. Now its up to asking for reparations for the sins of our dead great-great grandfathers and their fathers.

What I consider the legitimate promise of the left...which would include universal healthcare and equal opportunity (but not a guaranteed check in the mail as a reward for failing to produce anything useful).....participation of labor unions in modern industry, decent old age pensions, things like those...the things that would be positives for our society....those things have not gained traction because  Big Money (big pharma, big insurance,big corporate interests of all stripes) has managed to shape the narrative falsely in a way that panders to the fears of the elderly and the dumbest of the dumb white people who (and this is key) stubbornly keep out-voting the brown soon-to-be majority.

Demographics will ultimately win, unless the blacks and browns abandon the Democratic party, which I don't really look to happen in real numbers.

The Democratic leadership has been primarily been trying to hang on and wait. Hang on to the brown people, at least. The rising socialist element is not something the leadership likes, because that new faction wants to pay more than lip service to benefits. That costs money they'd rather spend on their loftier goals of a one world Eurozone-like world-wide free trade zone under the shared hegemony of the global elites.

But the party is due to swing hard to the left, because swing is what pendulums do, and the pendulum has swung way to the right in my adult years.

My fear is that all the phony parts of the liberal ethos, which are many, will come to dominate our culture, which would be quite negative, in my view.

Does that make sense? I hope so. I know you to be a well-intentioned, highly intelligent and and tolerant man. I'm not a right-wind extremist. I try to take a stab at the real truth, which is generally obscured in these threads.

 



« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 07:34:24 AM by Eddie »
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline Eddie

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Re: Larry Elder On Racism In America
« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2019, 07:13:39 AM »
No...they are most definitely FAR to the left, and will be taking the country there too, if they can put together a real party. Right now they're just another splinter in an already very splintered and delusional party. They didn't just learn what they know in college. They learned it from the flawed  agenda the Dems have pursued for a generation already.

Once upon a time, back clouded in the mists of history, there was a left in the FSoA.  From about the mid-1920s to the mid-1930s.  At the time, the Demodope Party was a left wing party, of the moderate kind,  It brought us such things as the New Deal, Social Security, The Tennessee Valley Authority and the Civilian Conservation Corps.  It sponsored projects that provided jobs and helped to insure no Amerikan was left begging in the street when they became too old or crippled to work anymore.

That demodope party is no more, it was systematically destroyed by the Pinkertons, the FBI and Joe McCarthy on the political end, but even more effectively by the propaganda published in the school history books and in the mass media organs of the newspapers and then TV and Radio later.  All said publishers and publications being mouthpieces for the Elite and owned by them

In it's place a NEW Demodope party emerged, a wholly ineffective and confused one, which is exactly what the Elite were after.  It also was set up to pit one race against the other and take the eye off the ball of the real problems of maldistribution of wealth and the commonalities all workers of any race have.  Social movements of Civil Rights and Women's Liberation played right into this, and there were many reasons for those things too numerous to discuss here.  Suffice it to say the Demodope Party turned into one concerned with the racial and gender divides, not with the economics of the society.  In this area, the Demodopes are no different from the Repugnants, they take money and sell their votes to the same corporate lobbyists and promote the same agenda of capitalism.  They don't advocate any real substantive change, like nationalizing industries, taking away corporate personhood, decertifying Da Fed, abolishing Private Property, etc.  THAT is left wing stuff.  Jacking up taxes a little higher does not make you a lefty.

Left is not about racial politics and it's not about gender identity, gun control, abortion rights, civil war statues or public bathroom facilities and who gets to shit where.  It's about economics, and it's not addressed by anyone in either major party, every mainstream politician spouts capitalist doctrine and paints pictures of "growth", because to do anything else is commiting political suicide considering how effectively the Amerikan Public has been brainwashed.

So, it's not feminists like AOC who have screwed up the Demodope party so badly with their agenda, it's that the Demodope party is DESIGNED to bring politians with these agendas into the mix, to keep the whole bizness confused and the eye of the public off the ball.  Confusing cause and effect further exacerbates this problem.

RE

I only disagree slightly. I'd say though, that rather than any attempt to stir confusion, the current confusion and all the misguided pseudo-left SJW agenda that is on the rise...that it came about as an attempt to co-opt any new rising power base. Both of our political parties try to cannibalize any new grass roots movement, most of which arise organically because the elected representatives of both parties are all in Washington dividing up the pork barrel and acquiring personal wealth, and only look up when they have to, and from time to time the people get restless and try to push for some kind of change.

The parties are very good at getting in front of that and co-opting any new political planks before they turn into a competing party. But it has resulted in a very bastardized kind of coalition of idiots on both sides, and it perpetuates false narratives, more so all the time.

The problems do arise because only big money can elect politicians anymore, which has led to rule by big money. No surprise. We need participatory democracy. But it ain't about to happen. Both party leaderships are more alike than different....but what I'm talking about is what's in the hearts and minds of the ignorant-ass American public. That scares the bejeezus out of me.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 07:35:40 AM by Eddie »
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Offline monsta666

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Re: Larry Elder On Racism In America
« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2019, 08:22:22 AM »
@ Eddie: Democrats like to talk like they are supportive of the working class but my questions remains: what policies or ideas have they actually seriously suggested of implementing? It is all well and good to talk a good game but when push comes to shove will they really act to implement any economic policies that could be described as real socialism? My suspicion, and I could be wrong, is any promises they make will be forgotten once in office. At this moment it seems like the Democrats are like Hollywood or Silicon Valley; they like to think of themselves as liberal and understanding but the reality is a lot of the mainstream Democrats of the ilk like Hilary Clinton are a lot closer to moderate Republicans of even recent yesteryear (although granted a moderate Republican is an endangered species these days). It is just, and this is just my opinion, the Democrats tend to be more sly with their true intention whereas the Republicans are brazen to the extent of being obnoxious. The Democrats talk about equal opportunities but in the end they will support the ruling class far more than working class.

I do think there could be change with the newer politicians who could harbour more left wing positions but it seems the Democrats will suffer a bit of an identity crisis not too dissimilar to the Labour party of England. The public on the whole, are not willing to buy into the more left wing ideas but despite that I do not think any of their policies are as left wing as say even the Republicans of the Nixon era. Now whilst I could agree that new minority populations could be more left-wing than the previous generations you do need to account that since the 80's the world has gone far to the right in terms of economic policies and with shifting baselines what "left" is today was firmly on the right 30-40 years ago.

I would argue that rather than a shift to an extreme right the sentiment expressed with these minorities is more towards the historic middle. For all the faults the millennial list over capitalism I think only the most extreme would say socialism is the better system. The Me Too movement which encapsulated this desire to the left never wanted inequality to disappear entirely, they just wanted it to reduce to a more tolerable level. They believe in capitalism but unlike the past do not feel Neo-liberal policies and free markets can deliver the best outcomes in all circumstances. There needs to be balance and that means implementing something that is closer to a mixed economy i.e. have vast majority of industries operate with free market principles but have a bigger social safety net and have certain crucial markets that are more regulated by government control to prevent the worst excesses of capitalism i.e. stop the various racketeers such as big pharmaceutical companies, military industrial complex etc.

 

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