AuthorTopic: Do Central Bankers Recognize there is NO GROWTH?  (Read 16192 times)

Offline Eddie

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Re: Do Central Bankers Recognize there is NO GROWTH?
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2015, 09:16:07 AM »
Alan, if this process we're in at the moment had begun perhaps forty years ago, I might tend to agree with your take. However, I don't and here's why.

If all growth stopped now, and even if cars and planes were made illegal, CO2 would continue to rise for at least several more decades, taking us into the kind of unprecedented climate change that appears most likely to result in large scale famine.

Population overshoot and climate change, even if they taper off, are  already way past any sustainable range. Only industrial agriculture keeps most (not all) people from starving now, and more people are starving all the time, resulting in mass immigration as we  speak.

There are limits around soil depletion. It's getting worse, not better. Exactly when is it all going to seamlessly change from a corrupt system that rewards evil, into the system you're (pipe) dreaming about? Answer: When it suddenly stops working.

Insufficient resources exist on the face (or under the face) of the earth to even provide the raw materials for the kind of scenario you keep arguing for. Smart, ernest people who actually have a scientific education have been trying to crunch the numbers for years, and none of them have come up with anything like the kind of soft landing you envision. As far as I can tell, nobody but you actually believes what you're saying.

The current balance of power in the world is really doing very little if anything to even move in the right direction. Mostly the power brokers in the world would prefer to see profits increase this quarter than to do anything to reduce their carbon footprint. The current empire is still traveling full speed ahead towards a brick wall, while practicing the kind of  economics that steals from the poor and gives to the rich.

You can't keep doing everything wrong and expect a good outcome, Alan. And that''s what mankind, collectively, keeps on doing.

Take your positive vibes and your copy of The Secret and piss off.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline alan2102

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Re: Do Central Bankers Recognize there is NO GROWTH?
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2015, 10:14:23 AM »
Alan, if this process we're in at the moment had begun perhaps forty years ago, I might tend to agree with your take. However, I don't and here's why.
[snip]
Got it. We started too late, and now everything is fucked, irretrievably. OK.

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Exactly when is it all going to seamlessly change from a corrupt system that rewards evil, into the system you're (pipe) dreaming about? Answer: When it suddenly stops working.
Got it. Armageddon will come like a thief in the night. Any year now. OK. We're all waiting.

Quote
Smart, ernest people who actually have a scientific education have been trying to crunch the numbers for years, and none of them have come up with anything like the kind of soft landing you envision.
None of them that YOU read, it is true. In your little walled garden of doom 'n collapse websites, you will find no scientifically educated people who envision a soft landing. But if you were to step out of that garden, you would see other things. For one example, Scientific American's 2009 report: A Path to Sustainable Energy by 2030 (google it).  And many more.

What do you make of the optimism of Dennis Meadows, coauthor of Limits to Growth (cited in adjacent thread: "Stormclouds forming...")? How is it possible that one of the MOST SCIENTIFIC, MOST HIGHLY-EDUCATED DOOMERS of yesteryear -- really one of the patron saints of enviro/resource doomerism -- is now saying that we have a problem with a superabundance of SOLUTIONS? Hmmm?

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Take your positive vibes and your copy of The Secret and piss off.
Jeezuz. WHY are you so fucking mean? Is it innate in your character? Or is it something that DD brings out in you? Or is it something that doomerism in general brings out in you? What?

PS: Oh, wait. It is ME who brings it out in you, right? All MY fault. I hang my head in shame.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2015, 10:16:07 AM by alan2102 »

Offline azozeo

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Re: Do Central Bankers Recognize there is NO GROWTH?
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2015, 11:03:50 AM »
Geez,
I clicked on this thread of hopes of banker doom
& all I got was the Whiney Al show.
C'mon man !!!!!!!!!!! Let's man up here, loose the shame....
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why youíre here. Youíre here because you know something. What you know you canít explain, but you feel it. Youíve felt it your entire life, that thereís something wrong with the world.
You donít know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

Offline alan2102

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Re: Do Central Bankers Recognize there is NO GROWTH?
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2015, 11:45:32 AM »
Geez, I clicked on this thread of hopes of banker doom
& all I got was the Whiney Al show.
C'mon man !!!!!!!!!!! Let's man up here, loose the shame....

"I hang my head in shame" was sarcastic.

Do you have any comments about:
 Scientific American's 2009 report: A Path to Sustainable Energy by 2030?

Do you have any comments about:
 Dennis (Limits to Growth) Meadows and his optimism?

Do you have any comments about:
 http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/forum/index.php/topic,4680.msg77445.html#msg77445

Do you have any comments about any of the last 50 specifics-rich, fact-based posts I have written?

 C'MON! MAN UP AND START WRITING SOME REAL SUBSTANTIVE POSTS!

I eagerly await your contributions.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2015, 11:51:09 AM by alan2102 »

Offline azozeo

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Re: Do Central Bankers Recognize there is NO GROWTH?
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2015, 01:43:45 PM »
hahahahahhha

You are a vertical being ! I was wondering what it would take to
see if you have a pulse.
There are only TWO {2} important topics to write about.
Our Sun & our planet.....
The rest is dramatic dribble. School boy games I tell you !

Al,
I left you a link to follow up on, what's your progress?
Aren't you still whooped on the 2 party bullshit.
Anyway glad to make your acquaintance. Around here,
the inmates run the asylum !

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/dIzw6KKZLgA&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/dIzw6KKZLgA&fs=1</a>
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why youíre here. Youíre here because you know something. What you know you canít explain, but you feel it. Youíve felt it your entire life, that thereís something wrong with the world.
You donít know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

Offline azozeo

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Re: Do Central Bankers Recognize there is NO GROWTH? CEO's resign !
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2015, 01:49:08 PM »
http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2015/06/bix-weir-alert-both-ceos-of-the-worlds-largest-derivative-holder-suddenly-resign-2716992.html

I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why youíre here. Youíre here because you know something. What you know you canít explain, but you feel it. Youíve felt it your entire life, that thereís something wrong with the world.
You donít know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

Offline alan2102

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Re: Do Central Bankers Recognize there is NO GROWTH? CEO's resign !
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2015, 02:29:59 PM »
http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2015/06/bix-weir-alert-both-ceos-of-the-worlds-largest-derivative-holder-suddenly-resign-2716992.html

Good old Bix! He is in the stopped clock category. He WILL be right one of these days. WILL. WILL. WILL.   (Actually, believe it or not, I'm serious. One of his wild ideas WILL turn out to be correct -- possibly the one about silver.)

Offline alan2102

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Re: Do Central Bankers Recognize there is NO GROWTH?
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2015, 02:34:58 PM »
I left you a link to follow up on, what's your progress?
If you're talking about Tsarion, I just could not handle the length and dilution.
Too many words. Thanks just the same.

Quote
Anyway glad to make your acquaintance.
Mutual.

Quote
Around here, the inmates run the asylum !
I would agree with you, but I won't, because if I do I will be accused of being a rotten rat troll mofo.   :P

Offline RE

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Re: Do Central Bankers Recognize there is NO GROWTH?
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2015, 02:42:55 PM »
Take your positive vibes and your copy of The Secret and piss off.
Jeezuz. WHY are you so fucking mean? Is it innate in your character? Or is it something that DD brings out in you? Or is it something that doomerism in general brings out in you? What?

PS: Oh, wait. It is ME who brings it out in you, right? All MY fault. I hang my head in shame.

This was pretty mild A21.  We can get a lot meaner than that on the Diner.  :o

Here's the deal.  You have decided to be one of the Contrarians on a board chock full of Doomers.  With the possible exception of Moriarty (also a Contrarian), about nobody agrees with anything that comes off your keyboard.

You basically ignore all evidence that doesn't fit your world view.  No matter how many articles we drop on demonstrating the putrid state of the Chinese economy and ecosystem, you will come back with a refutation of some type.

Stock Market Issues and BK Solar Companies?  NO PROBLEM!  Just a washout phase!

Air & Water Pollution?  NO PROBLEM!  There is a 5 year Plan to resolve it!

Like myself in the old days on TBP, you enjoy arguing with people who have an opposing viewpoint, so you gravitate toward a website where there are people who will engage you in these arguments.  Trust me, this is a waste of fucking time.

My suggestion to you is the same one I pitch at Moriarty.  Set up your own fucking Cornucopian Website.  You're not gonna make any headway here convincing Diners that China is the Empire of the Next Century.  That Dog Just Won't Hunt here on the Diner.

RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline azozeo

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Re: Do Central Bankers Recognize there is NO GROWTH? CEO's resign !
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2015, 02:43:43 PM »
http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2015/06/bix-weir-alert-both-ceos-of-the-worlds-largest-derivative-holder-suddenly-resign-2716992.html

Good old Bix! He is in the stopped clock category. He WILL be right one of these days. WILL. WILL. WILL.   (Actually, believe it or not, I'm serious. One of his wild ideas WILL turn out to be correct -- possibly the one about silver.)


Shooting the messenger is a clear cut indicator of a TROLL !
That's not using your manhood wisely.
Careful or RE might put you in the contrarion room with Moriarty.
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why youíre here. Youíre here because you know something. What you know you canít explain, but you feel it. Youíve felt it your entire life, that thereís something wrong with the world.
You donít know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

Offline azozeo

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Re: Do Central Bankers Recognize OVERDOSE The next financial crisis
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2015, 03:21:06 PM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/4ECi6WJpbzE&amp;list=LL9g8PwQVdhxOkh8rTKdOAYQ&amp;index=14&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/4ECi6WJpbzE&amp;list=LL9g8PwQVdhxOkh8rTKdOAYQ&amp;index=14&fs=1</a>
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why youíre here. Youíre here because you know something. What you know you canít explain, but you feel it. Youíve felt it your entire life, that thereís something wrong with the world.
You donít know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

Offline azozeo

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Re: Do Central Bankers Recognize there is NO GROWTH?
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2015, 03:33:54 PM »
Take your positive vibes and your copy of The Secret and piss off.
Jeezuz. WHY are you so fucking mean? Is it innate in your character? Or is it something that DD brings out in you? Or is it something that doomerism in general brings out in you? What?

PS: Oh, wait. It is ME who brings it out in you, right? All MY fault. I hang my head in shame.

This was pretty mild A21.  We can get a lot meaner than that on the Diner.  :o

Here's the deal.  You have decided to be one of the Contrarians on a board chock full of Doomers.  With the possible exception of Moriarty (also a Contrarian), about nobody agrees with anything that comes off your keyboard.

You basically ignore all evidence that doesn't fit your world view.  No matter how many articles we drop on demonstrating the putrid state of the Chinese economy and ecosystem, you will come back with a refutation of some type.

Stock Market Issues and BK Solar Companies?  NO PROBLEM!  Just a washout phase!

Air & Water Pollution?  NO PROBLEM!  There is a 5 year Plan to resolve it!

Like myself in the old days on TBP, you enjoy arguing with people who have an opposing viewpoint, so you gravitate toward a website where there are people who will engage you in these arguments.  Trust me, this is a waste of fucking time.

My suggestion to you is the same one I pitch at Moriarty.  Set up your own fucking Cornucopian Website.  You're not gonna make any headway here convincing Diners that China is the Empire of the Next Century.  That Dog Just Won't Hunt here on the Diner.

RE


I've been doomin' since 91' 92' as best I can remember. I was working for
Henry Ford in Yucca, Az. as a test driver / instructor at the Az. proving grounds
facility. On grave yard shift we used to listen to Art Bell out of Vegas at the time
all night while testing trucks durability on various systems.
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why youíre here. Youíre here because you know something. What you know you canít explain, but you feel it. Youíve felt it your entire life, that thereís something wrong with the world.
You donít know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

Offline Petty Tyrant

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Re: Do Central Bankers Recognize there is NO GROWTH?
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2015, 04:25:46 PM »
RE i think china is well underway to being dominant in the 21st century ..  the whole world has defied the usa in joining their banking and direct currency deals because they are everyones major trading partner. Except i think canada who still has most trade with the us. Its going ahead but its a gamble on how far the us military will go to prevent it. Will they go to ww3?  Also the qusetion is as food prices rise and scarcity happens will govts around the world  allow so much to be exported there if there are food riots At home. Maybe maybe not.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2015, 04:29:08 PM by Uncle Bob »
ELEVATE YOUR GAME

Offline g

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Re: Do Central Bankers Recognize there is NO GROWTH?
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2015, 05:15:40 PM »
RE i think china is well underway to being dominant in the 21st century ..  the whole world has defied the usa in joining their banking and direct currency deals because they are everyones major trading partner. Except i think canada who still has most trade with the us. Its going ahead but its a gamble on how far the us military will go to prevent it. Will they go to ww3?  Also the qusetion is as food prices rise and scarcity happens will govts around the world  allow so much to be exported there if there are food riots At home. Maybe maybe not.

A strong possibility Unc, especially when one considers the Dragon's marriage to the Bear. Germany is next to join forces with Russia with great detriment to the US position imho. Realize this sounds silly to most but I truly believe it.

Offline Ka

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Re: Do Central Bankers Recognize there is NO GROWTH?
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2015, 07:16:03 PM »
Another possibility is that AFTER a global financial collapse, the US comes to its senses, and withdraws from Asia, leaving China as domimant there, while the US continues dominatimg the Western Hemisphere. From then on, we'll see who does better: the US with 300 million vs. the Chinese with 1,300 million on roughly the same land area.

 

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