AuthorTopic: 🤡 Trumpty-Dumpty POTUS Thread  (Read 293405 times)

Offline moniker

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Re: 🤡 Trumpty-Dumpty POTUS Thread
« Reply #2505 on: January 03, 2021, 02:51:23 AM »
"To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour"

-Blake
Wonderful poem. Thanks for sharing.

Offline moniker

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Re: 🤡 Trumpty-Dumpty POTUS Thread
« Reply #2506 on: January 03, 2021, 08:26:04 AM »
Probably because you are treating  it as a proper noun rather than a verb.
What is the meaning of a verb without a noun? Or on the other hand can it clap and make a sound?
« Last Edit: January 03, 2021, 08:29:26 AM by moniker »

Offline Ashvin

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Re: 🤡 Trumpty-Dumpty POTUS Thread
« Reply #2507 on: January 03, 2021, 11:22:12 AM »
Probably because you are treating  it as a proper noun rather than a verb.
What is the meaning of a verb without a noun? Or on the other hand can it clap and make a sound?

Good question. There is "post modern" strain of thought that tries to divorce language from reality so that it can be manipulated to serve totalitarian ends. We see this with "gender pronouns", which are unnatural replacements for some of the most fundamental linguistic catogries we have. Verbs and nouns naturally evolved together for a reason, as they are both necessary to capture metaphysical reality.

Offline Phil Rumpole

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Re: 🤡 Trumpty-Dumpty POTUS Thread
« Reply #2508 on: January 03, 2021, 02:49:23 PM »
Probably because you are treating  it as a proper noun rather than a verb.
What is the meaning of a verb without a noun? Or on the other hand can it clap and make a sound?

Good question. There is "post modern" strain of thought that tries to divorce language from reality so that it can be manipulated to serve totalitarian ends. We see this with "gender pronouns", which are unnatural replacements for some of the most fundamental linguistic catogries we have. Verbs and nouns naturally evolved together for a reason, as they are both necessary to capture metaphysical reality.

Thanks for vindicating my insistence conventional syntax applies. A proper noun is capitalised because it is a name, while verbs, or doing words ending in 'ing' are not. We are all in a state of being.

Youre a fan of Jung and he has the Oversoul concept, which is God-smuggling under rationalist rules. Your "Being" seems like homage to him. Capitalised "God", "Oversoul" and "Being" are for all intents and purposes, the same thing. It is no longer the 17th-19th century, so you don't need to disavow only an anthropomorphic and arbitrary 'jealous God' to explain phenomena. In 2021 the onus is on the atheist to come up with a better explanation for a sustainer of worlds than 'gaps in our knowledge'.

A human being is always doing because we are performing involuntary functions even if we are comatose. A plant as a being is doing transpiration and photosynthesis, even if you deny it sapience. Even a rock is doing atoms vibrating at a frequency to be in existence, which is being.

« Last Edit: January 03, 2021, 03:41:31 PM by Phil Rumpole »
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Offline moniker

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Re: 🤡 Trumpty-Dumpty POTUS Thread
« Reply #2509 on: January 03, 2021, 03:13:16 PM »
Probably because you are treating  it as a proper noun rather than a verb.
What is the meaning of a verb without a noun? Or on the other hand can it clap and make a sound?

Good question. There is "post modern" strain of thought that tries to divorce language from reality so that it can be manipulated to serve totalitarian ends. We see this with "gender pronouns", which are unnatural replacements for some of the most fundamental linguistic catogries we have. Verbs and nouns naturally evolved together for a reason, as they are both necessary to capture metaphysical reality.

Thanks for vindicating my insistence conventional syntax applies. A proper noun is capitalised because it is a name, while verbs, or doing words ending in 'ing' are not. We are all in a state of being.

Youre a fan of Jung and he has the Oversoul concept, which is God-smuggling under rationalist rules. Your "Being" seems like homage to him. Capitalised "God", "Oversoul" and "Being" are for all intents and purposes, the same thing.

A human being is always doing because we are performing involuntary functions even if we are comatose. A plant as a being is doing transpiration and photosynthesis, even if you deny it sapience. Even a rock is doing atoms vibrating at a frequency to be in existence, which is being.
Given the previous discussion a "human being" would refer to an avatar.

Offline Phil Rumpole

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Re: 🤡 Trumpty-Dumpty POTUS Thread
« Reply #2510 on: January 03, 2021, 03:47:54 PM »

Given the previous discussion a "human being" would refer to an avatar.

Yes
« Last Edit: January 03, 2021, 03:56:39 PM by Phil Rumpole »
Women are like hurricanes: Wet and wild when they come, take your house when they leave

Offline Ashvin

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Re: 🤡 Trumpty-Dumpty POTUS Thread
« Reply #2511 on: January 03, 2021, 05:38:32 PM »
Probably because you are treating  it as a proper noun rather than a verb.
What is the meaning of a verb without a noun? Or on the other hand can it clap and make a sound?

Good question. There is "post modern" strain of thought that tries to divorce language from reality so that it can be manipulated to serve totalitarian ends. We see this with "gender pronouns", which are unnatural replacements for some of the most fundamental linguistic catogries we have. Verbs and nouns naturally evolved together for a reason, as they are both necessary to capture metaphysical reality.

Thanks for vindicating my insistence conventional syntax applies. A proper noun is capitalised because it is a name, while verbs, or doing words ending in 'ing' are not. We are all in a state of being.

Youre a fan of Jung and he has the Oversoul concept, which is God-smuggling under rationalist rules. Your "Being" seems like homage to him. Capitalised "God", "Oversoul" and "Being" are for all intents and purposes, the same thing. It is no longer the 17th-19th century, so you don't need to disavow only an anthropomorphic and arbitrary 'jealous God' to explain phenomena. In 2021 the onus is on the atheist to come up with a better explanation for a sustainer of worlds than 'gaps in our knowledge'.

A human being is always doing because we are performing involuntary functions even if we are comatose. A plant as a being is doing transpiration and photosynthesis, even if you deny it sapience. Even a rock is doing atoms vibrating at a frequency to be in existence, which is being.

Reality is both Being and Becoming (Permanence-Change), two polar opposites, as best symbolized in the Yin-Yang diagram.

My real concern is with the linguistic totalitarians (always Democrats) who pull absolutely insane shit like this:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/XkvYwh6Vcvg" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/XkvYwh6Vcvg</a>

Offline moniker

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Re: 🤡 Trumpty-Dumpty POTUS Thread
« Reply #2512 on: January 03, 2021, 07:02:11 PM »
Reality is both Being and Becoming (Permanence-Change), two polar opposites, as best symbolized in the Yin-Yang diagram.

My real concern is with the linguistic totalitarians (always Democrats) who pull absolutely insane shit like this:
This is one of the reasons why I recently deregistered from the democratic party.

Is Brahma not a Hindu god, not the Hindu god? Then he confuses the whole thing by referring to Kasmir Shavism, which is monotheistic. Anyhow, this country will not long survive in its present form and will soon turn into a third world shit hole.

Whatever held the US together is long gone and has left the country open to vultures of all sorts.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2021, 09:44:21 PM by moniker »

Offline Phil Rumpole

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Re: 🤡 Trumpty-Dumpty POTUS Thread
« Reply #2513 on: January 07, 2021, 04:58:07 PM »
I continue to be dumbfounded by the rationalizations of the Jacobins. Trump was locked out of twitter and Facebook for half a day and that has been extended to a month now. The kind of threats that have the air stewards union wanting the supporters banned from their return flights would be why.  Trump can't migrate to we-chat or tiktok now after trying to have those apps banned either. Here's just one reality check:

US NEWS
World reaction to the storming of the US Capitol
Reaction from around the world to the storming of the U.S. Capitol by supporters of President Donald Trump:

World leaders including Macron, Merkel, Solberg and Stoltenberg, are condemning the storming of the U.S. Capitol by supporters of President Donald Trump.

January 07, 2021
“A fundamental rule of democracy is that, after elections, there are winners and losers. Both have to play their role with decency and responsibility so that democracy itself remains the winner....President Trump regrettably has not conceded his defeat since November, and didn’t yesterday either, and of course that has prepared the atmosphere in which such events, such violent events, are possible.” — German Chancellor Angela Merkel.


“What is happening is wrong. Democracy — the right of people to exercise a vote, have their voice heard and then have that decision upheld peacefully — should never be undone by a mob.” — New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern.

“Shocking scenes in Washington, D.C. The outcome of this democratic election must be respected.” — NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg.

"American democracy is obviously limping on both feet....This, alas, is actually the bottom. I say this without a shadow of gloating. America no longer charts a course and therefore has lost all rights to set it — and even more so to impose it on others.” — Konstantin Kosachev, head of the foreign affairs committee in Russia's upper house of parliament.

——

“The rampage at the Capitol yesterday was a disgraceful act and it must be vigorously condemned.” — Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

“Last year, President Trump extended painful economic sanctions placed on Zimbabwe, citing concerns about Zimbabwe’s democracy. Yesterday’s events showed that the U.S. has no moral right to punish another nation under the guise of upholding democracy. These sanctions must end.” — Zimbabwe President Emmerson Mnangagwa.

“Distressed to see news about rioting and violence in Washington DC. Orderly and peaceful transfer of power must continue. The democratic process cannot be allowed to be subverted through unlawful protests.” — Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

“I unreservedly condemn encouraging people to behave in the disgraceful way that they did in the Capitol. And all I can say is I’m very pleased that the president-elect has now been duly confirmed in office and that democracy has prevailed.” — British Prime Minister Boris Johnson.

——

“We call on leaders from across the political spectrum, including the President of the United States, to disavow false and dangerous narratives, and encourage their supporters to do so as well. We note with dismay the serious threats and destruction of property faced by media professionals yesterday.” — U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights Michelle Bachelet.

“The world considered America as a successful model of democracy, but we have witnessed the chaos, the assault against congress members and the looting. Same as third-world countries!” — Iraqi lawmaker Hakim al-Zamili.

“We must call this out for what it is: a deliberate assault on Democracy by a sitting President & his supporters, attempting to overturn a free & fair election! The world is watching!” — Irish Foreign Minister Simon Coveney.

“I warned you: it’s bad when (people) walk down the street, it’s even worse when they walk into the courtyards, it will be unbearable when they come to your apartments. We must not allow this.” —- Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko.

——

“The scenes we saw are the result of lies and yet more lies, of division and contempt for democracy, of hatred and rabble-rousing, including from the very highest level. This is a historic turning point for the United States, and it is an attack on liberal democracy as a whole. But I am sure that American democracy is stronger than this hatred.” — German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier.

——

“Everywhere there is a Trump, so each of us has to defend the Capitol." — Donald Tusk, former European Union leader, former prime minister of Poland.

——

“This is an internal affair of the United States. At the same time, we draw attention to the fact that the electoral system in the United States is archaic; it does not meet modern democratic standards, creating opportunities for numerous violations, and the American media have become an instrument of political struggle." — Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova.

“The scenes from the U.S. Capitol show how dangerous the rhetoric of hatred is. Contempt for democratic institutions erodes citizens’ rights and can undermine political order.” — Slovakian President Zuzana Caputova.

—-

“All should be very troubled by the violence taking place in Washington D.C. We hope American democracy is resilient, deeply rooted and will overcome this crisis. Democracy presupposes peaceful protest, but violence and death threats —from Left or Right— are ALWAYS wrong.” — Slovenian Prime Minister Janez Jansa.

“This is a lesson to be learnt: that strong institutions and not strong personalities are the bulwark of a rich democratic culture.” — former Nigerian vice president Atiku Abubakar, a recent losing presidential candidate.

—-

“Presidents who don’t do much good and are unwilling to leave, we know that in Afghanistan.” — former Afghan government adviser Torek Farhadi.

“The right to vote, the voice of the citizen exercising their democratic rights, alongside the strength of the judiciary and maintaining the rule of law, must be principles shared by us all. Even with the pain, the disagreement and the atmosphere of mistrust, we must never forget that.” — Israeli President Reuven Rivlin.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/13673056/dc-riot-maga-gallows-capitol-building-overrun/amp/
« Last Edit: January 07, 2021, 05:06:57 PM by Phil Rumpole »
Women are like hurricanes: Wet and wild when they come, take your house when they leave

Offline moniker

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Re: 🤡 Trumpty-Dumpty POTUS Thread
« Reply #2514 on: January 09, 2021, 07:52:47 PM »
The wokesters are starting to wake up and they're angry according to Stefan Molyneux,

https://www.bitchute.com/video/XQfY8e2AHdPv/

Offline Phil Rumpole

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Re: 🤡 Trumpty-Dumpty POTUS Thread
« Reply #2515 on: January 09, 2021, 11:45:48 PM »
Women are like hurricanes: Wet and wild when they come, take your house when they leave

Offline John of Wallan

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Re: 🤡 Trumpty-Dumpty POTUS Thread
« Reply #2516 on: January 12, 2021, 01:06:47 AM »
Interesting interview.

JOW

In the show this week, Chris Hedges discusses with moral philosopher Dr. Cornel West what we can learn about America's existential crisis after witnessing enraged supporters of Donald Trump storming the Capitol to try and halt Congress's counting of the electoral votes to confirm the victory of President-elect Joe Biden.

Dr. Cornel West, professor of the practice of public philosophy at Harvard University, and the author of numerous books, including ‘Race Matters’.

https://www.rt.com/shows/on-contact/511893-west-america-existential-crisis/

Offline Phil Rumpole

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Re: 🤡 Trumpty-Dumpty POTUS Thread
« Reply #2517 on: January 12, 2021, 10:45:59 PM »
Tough love

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/12/politics/justice-department-capitol-hill-attack/index.html
Women are like hurricanes: Wet and wild when they come, take your house when they leave

Offline John of Wallan

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Re: 🤡 Trumpty-Dumpty POTUS Thread
« Reply #2518 on: January 14, 2021, 05:45:28 PM »
I dont think Trump is the worst president Merika has ever had.. Definately the worst I have seen though. Been a steady downhill slope for the last 5, probably coinciding with ecconomic decline and military over reach of the land of the free.
All the while we have people yelling from the rooftops, particularly Trump himself, how he was the best there ever was...

JOW

Link:
https://www.theage.com.au/world/north-america/is-donald-trump-the-worst-us-president-ever-historians-say-so-20210115-p56u9w.html

Text:
Is Donald Trump the worst US president ever? Historians say so
Scholars say Trump's efforts to overturn his election defeat, as well as his response to COVID-19, have cemented his place as America's worst president.

By Matthew Knott

JANUARY 15, 2021
SaveShareNormal text sizeLarger text sizeVery large text size
Washington: It was not until 1948 – more than 150 years since the first US presidential election – that anyone tried to create a systematic ranking of American presidents.

At the request of Life magazine, Harvard University historian Arthur M. Schlesinger polled 55 historians and asked them to rank the men who had held the presidency from first to last.

Schlesinger’s survey found that historians rated Abraham Lincoln, who led the US through the Civil War, the best president of all time. George Washington, the nation’s first president, was ranked number two. The most recent ex-president, Franklin D. Roosevelt, came in third thanks to his success steering the country through the Great Depression and World War II, as well as his ambitious New Deal program.

In last place was Warren Harding, who served in the White House from 1921 until his death in 1923. Although popular while in office, Harding's legacy was damaged by scandals that came to light after his death – including one of his cabinet members being convicted for bribery for leasing out oil reserves at below-market rates.
hat emerged after his death. CREDIT:AP

Presidential ranking surveys have since proliferated, with historians and political scientists deploying increasingly elaborate methods to try to assess presidents' track records as objectively as possible.

The Siena College Research Institute in New York, which has conducted regular presidential surveys since 1982, asks experts to assess presidents based on 20 categories ranging from integrity, intelligence, willingness to take risks, management of the economy, foreign policy achievements and their relationship with Congress.

Even so, these surveys have their critics. Schlesinger's survey was accused of being biased towards Democrats - a common complaint about subsequent surveys given political scientists and historians tend to be significantly more left-leaning than the population at large.

The early presidents have also largely been given a pass for acts of racism that would destroy the reputation of their modern-day successors.

FDR consistently ranks among the top presidents, despite his decision to place Japanese Americans in internment camps during World War II. Washington and Jefferson rank highly despite owning slaves, as does Woodrow Wilson despite segregating the federal bureaucracy based on race.

Abraham Lincoln is usually ranked the best president in the United States across most surveys.
Abraham Lincoln is usually ranked the best president in the United States across most surveys. CREDIT:GETTY IMAGES

The rankings have bounced around over time, and usually have slight differences depending who conducts the survey. But when it comes to the best and worst presidents in history, there has had been little change since Schlesinger's first list in 1948.

Washington, FDR and Lincoln nearly have always dominated the top three slots. Harding has been consistently placed at the bottom, alongside Andrew Johnson (President from April 15, 1865 to March 4, 1869) and James Buchanan (who served from March 4, 1857 to March 4, 1861)

That all changed when Donald Trump came along.

Already ranked among the worst presidents ever, top historians and political scientists told The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age that Trump's efforts to overturn the result of the 2020 election, on top of his handling of the coronavirus pandemic, have cemented his place as America's worst president.

High marks for luck
In February 2018, political science professors Brandon Rottinghaus and Justin Vaughn published the second iteration of their Presidential Greatness Survey.

Almost 200 experts were asked to grade all presidents on a "greatness scale" from zero (failure) to 100 (excellence).

Lincoln came in top with a score of 95. Trump, who had just completed the first year of his presidency came in dead last with a score of just 12.3.

That compared to a score of 40.4 for George W. Bush and 71.1 for Barack Obama, his most immediate predecessors.

Such a low ranking for Trump – so early in his presidency – irked some, including data guru Nate Silver. At the time unemployment was at near-record lows and there had been no national security crises.

"It speaks poorly to the field of presidential scholarship that political scientists have Trump ranked as the worst president of all time after only one year on the job, below presidents who e.g. helped blunder us into the Civil War & Great Depression," Silver wrote on Twitter.

Even when taking ideology into account, Trump did poorly in the survey, ranking 40th out of 44th among the Republican-leaning scholars who participated.

The most recent Siena College survey, released around the same time, was sightly less damning for Trump. Trump entered that survey at 42nd place out of 44, above only Buchanan and Andrew Johnson.

Buchanan is widely reviled for failing to prevent the outbreak of the Civil War while Johnson was the first president to ever be impeached after proving unable to work with Congress after the war had ended.

The experts consulted by Siena rated Trump last among all presidents when it came to integrity and intelligence. They ranked him highly in only one category – luck – reflecting their view that the strong economy and relatively benign foreign policy landscape was due to good fortune rather than Trump’s leadership.

By contrast Ronald Reagan (ranked 13th overall) scored highly on communication but low on intelligence; Bill Clinton (ranked 15th) was rated among the worst for integrity but among the best at handling the economy. George W. Bush was ranked 33rd, reflecting the fact he oversaw the ill-fated Iraq War and global financial crisis.

From bad to worse

When it comes to historical greatness, confronting a crisis is often a boon for a president. Clinton complained that he had never had to respond to a sufficiently substantial disaster during his presidency to allow him to rise to the ranks of the truly great presidents.

Bill Clinton has said he didn't face a big enough crisis to rank as one of the truly great presidents.
Bill Clinton has said he didn't face a big enough crisis to rank as one of the truly great presidents. CREDIT:GETTY IMAGES

University of Houston professor Brandon Rottinghaus, one of the political scientists who runs the Presidential Greatness Survey, says: "Presidential greatness tends to be moulded in times of adversity. That doesn't seem to apply to Trump in his last two years of office. In fact, it seems to be the opposite."

Rather than helping him to move up the leaderboard, he says Trump's handling of the coronavirus pandemic has only pushed him further down. As well as downplaying the seriousness of the virus, Trump has promoted unproven cures, instigated feuds with scientific experts and shown a remarkable lack of empathy for the almost 400,000 Americans who have died from COVID-19 so far.

Then came Trump's months-long efforts to sow doubts about the legitimacy of the election result, culminating in the riot at the Capitol last week that saw five people lose their lives. This week he became the first president in US history to ever be impeached twice.

Timothy Naftali, the founding director of the Richard Nixon Presidential Library, says: "After his first impeachment and dereliction of duty during the COVID crisis Trump was already America's worst modern president.

"I think, as a result of his responsibility for the insurrection on January 6, he has edged out James Buchanan and Andrew Johnson as the worst US president ever."

Donald Trump was already the worst modern President by the time his first impeachment trial was over.
Donald Trump was already the worst modern President by the time his first impeachment trial was over. CREDIT:BLOOMBERG

Howell says: "I'd put him right alongside Andrew Johnson – who laid the groundwork for the roll-back of reconstruction and the rise of Jim Crow – as the worst. What he has unleashed in our politics is horrifying."

In defending their decision to vote against impeaching Trump this week, several congressional Republicans pointed to his policy achievements such as moving the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem and his record on the economy.

But Howell says this is a threadbare record compared to his predecessors – including other presidents who left office in disgrace. While he believes Richard Nixon (ranked 29th on the Siena survey) committed criminal acts during the Watergate scandal, he says Nixon achieved significant milestones such as re-opening relations with China and creating the Environmental Protection Agency.

Historians have given Richard Nixon extremely low marks for integrity for his behaviour during the Watergate scandal.
Historians have given Richard Nixon extremely low marks for integrity for his behaviour during the Watergate scandal.CREDIT:AP

"What has Trump accomplished in terms of policy achievements?" Howell asks. "Not very much. He certainly appointed lots of conservative justices and reduced taxes but any conservative worth his or her salt could have accomplished that.

"Things that a year or two ago, Trump's defenders could have pointed to as signs of real success have evaporated. We've had the pandemic and his utter failure to deal with it as well as his unending assault on democracy."

A reassessment?

In Schlesinger’s first presidential ranking survey, Andrew Jackson, the nation's seventh president, came in sixth place. But over the years, as more attention was given to Jackson's harsh treatment of native Americans, he has fallen down the leaderboard - ranking 19th in the most recent Siena College survey.

By contrast when Harry Truman left office in 1953 he had a job approval rating of just 22 per cent, making him one of the most unpopular presidents in history. But history viewed him more kindly as the years went on, thanks to his foreign policy innovations such as the Marshall Plan, which helped rebuild western Europe after WWII, and the creation of NATO. Most expert surveys now rank him in the top 10 presidents of all time.

US Presidential inaugurations throughout the years
From Franklin D Roosevelt to Donald Trump, a look at the ritual that is the US Presidential inauguration.

Could Trump, who is leaving office with an average approval rating of 39 per cent according to FiveThirtyEight, hope for a similar resurgence in future years?

Brandon Rottinghaus says this is extremely unlikely.

"I don't see any way Trump could move up from the bottom of the list of our survey," he says.

William Howell says: "Being impeached twice is not solid ground to rise in the rankings. I don't think there is any chance of the kind of ascension Truman has had over time for Trump."

He says future events will determine just how poorly Trump is regarded. "Is it the story of him being a narcissist and a clown – or as an aspiring autocrat who did fundamental and enduring damage to our democracy?"


 

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