PE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd"> Futile or not, here I come.

AuthorTopic: Futile or not, here I come.  (Read 18981 times)

Offline buzzard

  • Bussing Staff
  • **
  • Posts: 130
    • View Profile
Futile or not, here I come.
« on: September 17, 2012, 07:14:43 PM »
I'm a reader here. In fact I'm basically a reader everywhere. I am neither brilliant nor inspired. Any comments which I could make would be amateur at best. However, I do read a lot- and I get impressions. While reading back and forth in the barbeque section (I'm obviously running low on good literature) I got the sense of fatigue in those who were posting. Perhaps this is only a mirror of myself because I have been admittedly tired of the whole mess recently. [You know, the whole collapse mess?]

Although my participation has been mostly lacking, I have followed several forums for some years- in fact since the yahoo lists. So most of the posters I run into are familiar to me from ROE, Dieoff, Peakoil, LATOC etc. What I am sensing is a sort of 'collapse fatigue' which shows in subtle ways. Interestingly also I have watched the development of online personalities and opinions over the years. Much of it, I believe can be attributed to a maturity and wisdom grown from years of experience in the individual's search for knowledge and truth. I know that the journey has taken me to places which I never could have predicted.

Frankly, I'm tired. Part of it could be a growing impatience, like sitting in the theater as a kid with your tub of popcorn waiting for the movie to begin. And let's face it. I'm not getting any younger. Seventy doesn't look that far away any more. (I can't believe that I even wrote that).  Nothing earth shaking here. I'm just curious as to what others are feeling when you strip away all of the intellectual issues and probing questions of the day. I know that I find myself backing out of 'acceptance' into depression again. That's depressing. I get up and do it again- amen. Most of you are veterans of the truth wars. Is it any easier than it was ten years ago? How is the cynicism quotient?


Offline g

  • Golden Oxen
  • Contrarian
  • Master Chef
  • *
  • Posts: 12280
    • View Profile
Re: Futile or not, here I come.
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2012, 09:55:52 PM »
"Frankly, I'm tired. Part of it could be a growing impatience, like sitting in the theater as a kid with your tub of popcorn waiting for the movie to begin. And let's face it. I'm not getting any younger. Seventy doesn't look that far away any more. (I can't believe that I even wrote that).  Nothing earth shaking here. I'm just curious as to what others are feeling when you strip away all of the intellectual issues and probing questions of the day. I know that I find myself backing out of 'acceptance' into depression again. That's depressing. I get up and do it again- amen. Most of you are veterans of the truth wars. Is it any easier than it was ten years ago? How is the cynicism quotient?"

Hi Buzzard, Tired and depressed from the whole ball of wax myself. Starting to understand why Peter, my favorite poster at DD has walked away. The more I learn here, which I tell myself is a good thing, how can learning be considered a bad thing, the more depressed I get. We are in real friggin mess, with no way out it seems, and all this seems to accomplishing very little except pointing out how bad it really is. The petty fights and bullshit don't help either.
OWS was the only thing I have seen lately which energized me and filled me with some hope, but that has ended on a very sour and depressing note as well. Guess that's why we hang out at the Diner.  Nice to hear from you. GO

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 42050
    • View Profile
Re: Futile or not, here I come.
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2012, 12:05:32 AM »
Collapse Fatigue is pandemic across the Collapse Blogosphere these days.  It probably should get its own listing in the DSM-IV right next to PTSD.

The two Biggest Collapse boards in the first generation were PeakOil and LATOC.  LATOC is gone completely as Matt Savinar took it offline.  PeakOil has withered away and gets less daily action than we get here in the Diner.

The early and most original Bloggers like Dmitri Orlov and Jimmy Kunstler more or less have made Collapse their Bizness, and both websites are mainly venues to promote their Books and Speaking Engagements.  Both are still very creative writers, but they also both recycle the same themes over and over again.  Neither participates much in discussion even over on their own Blog Commentariats.

For me, Collapse remains an intriguing and ever changing sea of information to digest, and really MOST of the world still is not even AWARE of it.  The Collapse Fatigue phenomenon mostly exists among people who have been aware of peak oil since at least 2007, some since as far back as 2000.

Like many Kollapsniks who have been waiting for the Sky to Fall, part of me wishes that it would just FALL already so we can get on with the next stage, whatever that might be, bad as it is likely to be.  However, for anyone who has NOT yet fallen off the Economic Cliff, its a GOOD thing that Extend & Pretend has worked as long as it has.  Here on the Diner, we have several people who hope for 6mo-2years more time to get their Plans/Doomsteads ready.

I guess the best way to explain how I feel about Collapse and how I avoid Collapse Fatigue is to follow Ty Webb's advice in Caddyshack, in this case rather than "Be the Ball", it's "Be the Collapse".  It remains the most IMPORTANT topic of our time, and regardless how Old you might be there is still much to be learned here.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/TvZ9LPzTURg" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/TvZ9LPzTURg</a>

So I keep thinking about it and writing about it and discussing it with others here on the Diner.  Even recycling old material is important because Newbies are always Waking Up here, more all the time.  Us Old Timers should be around to fill in the Newbies and...

Save as Many as You Can
RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline WaterWeasel

  • Bussing Staff
  • **
  • Posts: 63
    • View Profile
Re: Futile or not, here I come.
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2012, 01:52:42 AM »
Buzzard,

and RE, it is very hard reading the news anymore when you start to see what's going on. It's tough to say, but, if you're not at least a little bit depressed, you're not paying attention. I don't know how you can get to "acceptance" when all the time things are getting worse. I won't say the "f" word. (*cough*futile*cough*)
Quote
I'm just curious as to what others are feeling when you strip away all of the intellectual issues and probing questions of the day
I'm feeling like I need to stock up on beer and pretzels, 'cause this is going to be the biggest train-wreck you ever did see.

I have no idea how it's going to go down. I can only hope that I have enough of an edge to make it through the first wave. Probably not, but in that case, I take solace in living a middle-class 21st century American life, at least for a while, which is better than most humans who ever lived. I'll continue to be a good person, and I'll continue to try to make things better, and I hope that's still worth something.

RE,
Quote
For me, Collapse remains an intriguing and ever changing sea of information to digest, and really MOST of the world still is not even AWARE of it.
This is really mind-boggling isn't it? There's some meat here that hasn't been explored. Futilitist is interested in sociology. Maybe he could lead this thread.

But, yeah, when you see the assault on the biosphere, that we depend on for our economy as well as our very life, it's hard not to wish for it to stop, now, no matter how hard it might be. And it looks to me like it will stop, eventually. It's like pulling off a Band-Aid, slow, or in one go? I prefer in one go. Let's get it over with!

But, I do love my currently comfy lifestyle, with a job and food and all. It's a tough call.

Offline Surly1

  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 18654
    • View Profile
    • Doomstead Diner
Re: Futile or not, here I come.
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2012, 03:28:26 AM »
Ah, Caddyshack.

The story of the making of this movie is well worth watching.

My face: "Heavy hitter, the Dalai Lama..."

"...  he said, on my deathbed I would receive total consciousness.
So I got that goin' for me."
"...reprehensible lying communist..."

Offline buzzard

  • Bussing Staff
  • **
  • Posts: 130
    • View Profile
Re: Futile or not, here I come.
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2012, 04:26:04 AM »


RE,
Quote
For me, Collapse remains an intriguing and ever changing sea of information to digest, and really MOST of the world still is not even AWARE of it.
This is really mind-boggling isn't it? There's some meat here that hasn't been explored. Futilitist is interested in sociology. Maybe he could lead this thread.



In fact it was Futilitist's comments which prompted this thread. I didn't address him personally because my question was more general, a smokey malaise which had settled over me.

I am fond of telling people that I have it easy because I am old enough that I will be dead before the shit really hits the fan. I have lived an interesting and eventful life. I won't check out thinking that I have been particularly robbed of anything. I tell people that I pity those younger who stand to live through the full monty. What will their lives be like? What I tell people sounds good. It sounds right... And it is a lie. In fact, I am jealous of the young. I am so intrigued and curious about the future that I am beginning to think that I will miss it.

I guess that is why Greer gets under my skin. I don't want to hear 'Catabolic Collapse'. Doesn't he realize that we need to get on with it so that I can see what happens? It is also why "Tipping Point" resonated with  me instantly. If what he says is true then it could all come down tomorrow. Now we're talking. And... aside from my selfish desire to see how it all turns out, I also subscribe to the 'remove the band-aide' quickly school of collapse. It just makes sense. As Jensen says. The sooner it comes down the less the planet suffers damage from human's hubris and greed.

I suspect the reason most of us are here is because wandering through this mansion of darkness we have noticed a room where the lights are still on. Even though it seems to me at this point that the same arguments and information gets recycled over and over, at least the truth will set you free (or piss you off, whatever the case will be).

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 42050
    • View Profile
Re: Futile or not, here I come.
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2012, 05:21:33 AM »
I am fond of telling people that I have it easy because I am old enough that I will be dead before the shit really hits the fan. I have lived an interesting and eventful life. I won't check out thinking that I have been particularly robbed of anything. I tell people that I pity those younger who stand to live through the full monty. What will their lives be like? What I tell people sounds good. It sounds right... And it is a lie. In fact, I am jealous of the young. I am so intrigued and curious about the future that I am beginning to think that I will miss it.

With this paragraph  BY ITSELF you undermined your own initial argument that you are not a thinker who has something to say.  You clearly do.  I think you just have spent more time reading than most and have not felt it necessary to express your own opinions,  Now you do. All to the good there.

I feel much the same in the sense that I had it good, if it all goes to hell in a handbasket tomorrow I lived a pretty good life in the Age of Oil.  I certainly already lived longer than the average H-G lives, if you make it to 50 in that type of life you are OLD.

I am NOT nearly so old as some here though, I am pretty sure some of our Gold Bugs are well into their 70s actually. LOL.  These folks have little to worry about, they don't have all that much time left under the best of circumstances.

The folks who really got stuff to deal with are those in their 30s and 40s, particularly if they have dependent children.  However, few of that demographic are here on the Diner as of yet.  Mostly Old Dudes and some younger unmarrieds, though there are a few here with kids also.

In one sese, it would be EXCITING to be young again and preparing for the world as it is to be.  I also am in a sense JEALOUS of younger folks, I WISH I was 30-something again with all my physical strength and speed to go out into the Bush and make my go of it there.  What an ADVENTURE!

In reality though, I HAD my Adventure already, it was the adventure of a life lived in the culminating years of the Age of Oil.  It was a FUN adventure.  I lived a pretty good life, and I learned a lot.  What else are you here for anyhow, besides eating and breathing?  You learn stuff.  Then you pass on what you learned to the Young 'uns.  That is the course of life, eh?

Now we have a bit of time left here to chat up on the internet how to negotiate the most amazing spin down of Human Civilization in all of recorded History.  Us Old Folks won't be around too much longer, but we still can pass on some knowledge and observe the end, until at last we each buy our Final Ticket to the Great Beyond.

RE

« Last Edit: September 18, 2012, 02:35:53 PM by agelbert »
Save As Many As You Can

Offline g

  • Golden Oxen
  • Contrarian
  • Master Chef
  • *
  • Posts: 12280
    • View Profile
Re: Futile or not, here I come.
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2012, 05:49:35 AM »
Quote Dungeon Master "I am NOT nearly so old as some here though, I am pretty sure some of our Gold Bugs are well into their 70s actually."
GO Celebrating His Birthday Last Week
GO Celebrating His Birthday Last Week

Offline widgeon

  • Bussing Staff
  • **
  • Posts: 245
    • View Profile
Re: Futile or not, here I come.
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2012, 11:56:34 AM »
I'm tired, yes.  But not just Doom.  Mostly from the 8 hour day in the cage they call "a career" here in the matrix.

I rationalize to myself that I need to keep aware of on-gong conditions to give my kids (J in HS) the best guidance I can.

I felt for at least 35 years that I was born in the wrong century.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2012, 12:01:45 PM by widgeon »

Offline buzzard

  • Bussing Staff
  • **
  • Posts: 130
    • View Profile
Re: Futile or not, here I come.
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2012, 12:43:15 PM »
I guess that my default position is always that I am the oldest in any crowd that 'gets it'. That position is clearly false. I did have great hopes for the boomer generation. After all we tried to separate ourselves from the old paradigm back in the sixties. However, I forget that we (the Hippies) represented a very small percentage of our generation. And we clearly got many things wrong. We were naive to believe some of the things which we espoused. I like to think that our hearts were in the right place. That was probably also wrong.

There does seem to be a parallel for today in that those of us who clump together in the collapse blogospere represent a very small number. I also realize that to somebody this is all new stuff. Oh well, get up and do it again- amen. 

Offline Snowleopard

  • Waitstaff
  • ***
  • Posts: 505
    • View Profile
Re: Futile or not, here I come.
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2012, 01:20:09 PM »
I can relate to tired.

Tired of relatives who emulate the three monkees.  No evil exists, is to be seen or heard.  Talk of "doom" or preps is  negative, depressed or depressing.  "Haven't you got anything positive or cheerfull to say about things?"  or "None of that stuff will happen, they will find a way to keep things going".  Only three of an extended family of over sixty people is making any serious preps or lifestyle changes.  About five others are willing to discuss the topic(s) sometimes, and these have some spare ammo, a few gold/silver coins or maybe two weeks food in the pantry; and one has a few K FRNs in the backyard.

Tired of watching decline and waiting for collapse.  Financial collapse was predictable after "guns and butter" and closing the gold window in 1971.  Still has not happened though.

I get the distinct feeling that the stuff i prepped for might not happen till long after my demise, and partying would have been wiser and more fun.   My grand nieces and nephews are the ones who need to adopt my resilient lifestyle, but they want the bling.  I'm tired of trying to explain it to them. 
"A man sees what he wants to see and disregards the rest." -  Simon and Garfunkel

Offline Surly1

  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 18654
    • View Profile
    • Doomstead Diner
Re: Futile or not, here I come.
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2012, 01:39:35 PM »
I'm tired, yes.  But not just Doom.  Mostly from the 8 hour day in the cage they call "a career" here in the matrix.

I rationalize to myself that I need to keep aware of on-gong conditions to give my kids (J in HS) the best guidance I can.

I felt for at least 35 years that I was born in the wrong century.

Back in the 70s, I used to run, shoot and hunt with a guy whose kitchen was a mess, from melting lead to pour his own shot. Now HE was a real throwback. Used to shoot muzzle-loaders. Pretty well, in fact.

I sympathize with feeling stuck out of time... Given the business I am in, I explain myself as an analog man cast adrift in a digital world.
"...reprehensible lying communist..."

Offline monsta666

  • Global Moderator
  • Sous Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 1557
    • View Profile
Re: Futile or not, here I come.
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2012, 02:14:21 PM »
For those waiting for a collapse I do not feel that you will not need to wait too much longer. Give it 5-10 years and I am sure the real party will begin. Once oil production goes into permanent decline the rate of decline in net global exports is likely to overwhelm the already over-leveraged developed countries of the world. Extend and pretend will no longer work and more drastic means (if that is possible) will be required. Any wars on Iran/Saudi Arabia would create similar results perhaps those wars would be instigated to cover up the effects of peak oil. Such a war would also allow the powers that be to blame some bogey man for the lack oil and economic suffering caused by this.

Offline agelbert

  • Global Moderator
  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 11820
    • View Profile
    • Renewable Rervolution
Re: Futile or not, here I come.
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2012, 02:26:51 PM »
To all you worthy fellows that have posted here and feel tired. I hope this video helps your mood knowing some people out there are living a future that has every chance of being viable after the collapse.

Quote
No Cats Or Dogs, Just Kangaroos!

Welcome to Crystal Waters Eco Village, set in 650 acres of bushland in Southeast Queensland Australia. At the time this video was produced, they had 83 homes with over 200 people living there.

They claim to be the first village designed with permaculture landscape principles.It is a wildlife preserve as well as an eco village, with a mix of private and community owned land. There is common land for grazing, agriculture and forestry.

Since they are dedicated to bringing back wildlife in the area, no cats and dogs are allowed -- but note the many very cute kangaroos in this video!

"Crystal Waters embraces the permaculture belief that small settlements can provide a healthy lifestyle were we can maintain clean air and water and where food production is not so separate from consumption." says the narrator.

They also have workshops and tours, eager to teach visitors about this gentler, more sustainable way of life.

--Bibi Farber

Crystal Waters Eco Village website is www.crystalwaters.org.au


The narrator claims there are 15 nationalities represented. The group looks ethnically homogeneous and they all appear to communicate in English. The social dynamic of providing right brain activities (nod to Buzzard and the hippies) appears to be an important part of the success formula as long as the left brain careful ecological planning and execution of permaculture principles is retained.

A post collapse community will require a level of culture most doomers don't talk about. I think that is wrong. It is obvious that people need to eat but so does an amoeba! Man REALLY does not live by bread alone.

It appears that prima donnas do not fit in this village. Free thought is evident by the huge diversity of building styles and techniques. However, human greed is corked by keeping a very low percentage of the total land available for human habitation and a huge portion as common land REQUIRING (as in not optional if you want to be a member of the community) permaculture tending from wildlife preservation to planting and harvesting crops. Obviously a premium is placed on cooperation.  :emthup: :icon_sunny:

For those who think this is kumbaya bullshit, I say you are the one in la-la land. If you think these pleasant looking peaceful folks in the village below aren't willing to blow away anybody that messes with them, you are flat wrong. Anyone that understands permaculture knows exactly what humans need to do to avoid predation by animals or other humans without getting mad max about it. A bear or a wolf do not bar their teeth unless they need to.

Enjoy the video. It's a breath of fresh air in the over willingness I see HERE too often to fear the "hoards" of desperate people in a collapse scenario to the point of shooting them on sight. That may be called for sporadically but I think dwelling on it obsessively isn't healthy. More preppers should be thinking about cultural activities. They are as important as eating for human happiness and fulfillment.

 
Crystal Waters Ecovillage


http://www.nextworldtv.com/videos/co-housing/first-permaculture-eco-village.html
« Last Edit: September 18, 2012, 02:30:52 PM by agelbert »
Leges         Sine    Moribus      Vanae   
Faith,
if it has not works, is dead, being alone.

Offline JoeP

  • Sous Chef
  • ****
  • Posts: 2148
    • View Profile
Re: Futile or not, here I come.
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2012, 03:19:14 PM »

I guess the best way to explain how I feel about Collapse and how I avoid Collapse Fatigue is to follow Ty Webb's advice in Caddyshack, in this case rather than "Be the Ball", it's "Be the Collapse".  It remains the most IMPORTANT topic of our time, and regardless how Old you might be there is still much to be learned here.

May I add that when you "Be the Collapse", it may help to have "Total Consciousness"....Gunga Galunga...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/TkLH56VlKT0?feature=player_detailpage" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/TkLH56VlKT0?feature=player_detailpage</a>
 
 
just my straight shooting honest opinion

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
0 Replies
1153 Views
Last post October 07, 2016, 02:49:17 PM
by Surly1