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Offline g

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Re: Driverless Carz & The Pricetag of Civilization
« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2017, 05:35:56 PM »
He means DIM as in clockwork orange.  Or the DIM who obsess with flat screens so completely they loose any desire for the 'old in out' and fade away to nothingness consumed by the flickering blue light.  Minds wiped so squeaky clean thought slides right off.  What you called dim-witted.

I don't understand this particular violation of the CCs but R.E. is pretty good at keeping everyone playing nice so perhaps he will explain.
Welcome to the Diner Farmer.

Thanks for the explain'n, Dog.  It's been a long time since I've seen Clockwork Orange.  Gonna hafta netfilx it.
And thanks for the welcome.  I hope I can handle this place.  The brawls get brutal at times.  Don't care much for busted dishes.

Is RE the right guy for CoC enforcement?  Seems he can get pretty testy when he wants to.  Eh, RE?
I just nailed FM for a Criminal Misspelling.  :icon_sunny:

RE
SG Chief of Police

FM?  Did I miss something?
I like deliberate misspellings to mimic conversational speech, or to impart a sense of folksiness or whatever.  Get used to it.

Thanks K-Dog.   

Yes Farmer, The movie made quite an impression on me and my friends as well. It was rather a cult classic and an important film as well as an impressive work of art in my view. It has all sorts of hidden meaning and questions, and Dim and Alex are representative of more than hoodlums as most believe.     

Mr Kubrick is a true genius, His Space Odyssey is one of the most impressive visual experiences ever witnessed by me in the art world. Unforgettable Masterpiece, as was the Clockwork, Dr Strangelove, Barry Lyndon. There were many others but those were my favorites.

                                                 
Alex


       
                                                   
Dim



                                                             <a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/wcW_Ygs6hm0?ecver=2" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/wcW_Ygs6hm0?ecver=2</a>

                                   
                                                 
                                                 
                                                                   
                                                                             Barry Lyndon


                                               
                                                                <a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/ypEaGQb6dJk?ecver=2" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/ypEaGQb6dJk?ecver=2</a>

                                                                          The Dawn of Man
             
                                                           


Offline Farmer McGregor

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Re: Driverless Carz & The Pricetag of Civilization
« Reply #46 on: February 18, 2017, 06:00:59 PM »
Mr Kubrick is a true genius, His Space Odyssey is one of the most impressive visual experiences ever witnessed by me in the art world. Unforgettable Masterpiece...
Couldn't agree more.  First saw 2001 as a kid in the local theatre with BIG screen.  Awesome!
Have yet to see any outer space movie that even comes close to depicting the endless emptiness and distance of space the way Kubrick did.  Instead they bop around between 'star systems' and galaxies like running down to the corner pub.  Not the same at all.  Pathetic, really.

Thanks for the prod to revisit some old classics.
For years we have let ourselves believe that as long as we have money we will have food. This is a mistake. The government will bring forth no food by providing hundreds of billions of dollars to the agribusiness industry.  --Wendell Berry after the 2008 crash

Offline g

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Re: Driverless Carz & The Pricetag of Civilization
« Reply #47 on: February 18, 2017, 06:12:37 PM »
Mr Kubrick is a true genius, His Space Odyssey is one of the most impressive visual experiences ever witnessed by me in the art world. Unforgettable Masterpiece...
Couldn't agree more.  First saw 2001 as a kid in the local theatre with BIG screen.  Awesome!
Have yet to see any outer space movie that even comes close to depicting the endless emptiness and distance of space the way Kubrick did.  Instead they bop around between 'star systems' and galaxies like running down to the corner pub.  Not the same at all.  Pathetic, really.

Thanks for the prod to revisit some old classics.

Yes Farmer, get your drift exactly. Half a century later and they haven't come close to what Mr Kubrick presented to us.

Glad you enjoyed the brief visit back in time. I'm one of the old timers, geezers :laugh: here and am fond of  reflecting on the past.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 06:40:16 PM by Golden Oxen »

Offline Farmer McGregor

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Re: Driverless Carz & The Pricetag of Civilization
« Reply #48 on: February 18, 2017, 07:02:56 PM »

Yes Farmer, get your drift exactly. Half a century later and they haven't come close to what Mr Kubrick presented to us.

Glad you enjoyed the brief visit back in time. I'm one of the old timers, geezers :laugh: here and am fond of  reflecting on the past.

Makes you wonder what Kubrick could have done with the high-tech cinematic toys Hollywood plays with nowadays.
Things haven't necessarily gotten 'better' in spite of all the 'progress' we've made.  Brings to mind JMG's Retrotopia and related discussions (I assume you're up on that?).

Your profile fails to reveal your age.  So just how geezery (OMG watch out for the SG!) are you?  I'm not exactly young if I watched 2001 at first run in the theatre as a teenager, though I still have a fairly low coefficient of geezerness.  I, too, enjoy reflecting on the past.  Maybe it's rose colored glasses, but it seems like much of it was a better time...
For years we have let ourselves believe that as long as we have money we will have food. This is a mistake. The government will bring forth no food by providing hundreds of billions of dollars to the agribusiness industry.  --Wendell Berry after the 2008 crash

Offline RE

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Re: Driverless Carz & The Pricetag of Civilization
« Reply #49 on: February 18, 2017, 07:57:43 PM »
Yes Farmer, get your drift exactly. Half a century later and they haven't come close to what Mr Kubrick presented to us.

Fixed that for you.

WTF calls him "Mr Kubrick"?  He's either called "Stanley Kubrick", or just "Kubrick".

Here's a movie review of 2001 from Roger Ebert (RE  :icon_sunny: )

Quote from: Roger Ebert
|  Roger Ebert
March 27, 1997   | 

The genius is not in how much Stanley Kubrick does in "2001: A Space Odyssey," but in how little. This is the work of an artist so sublimely confident that he doesn't include a single shot simply to keep our attention. He reduces each scene to its essence, and leaves it on screen long enough for us to contemplate it, to inhabit it in our imaginations. Alone among science-fiction movies, “2001" is not concerned with thrilling us, but with inspiring our awe.

No little part of his effect comes from the music. Although Kubrick originally commissioned an original score from Alex North, he used classical recordings as a temporary track while editing the film, and they worked so well that he kept them. This was a crucial decision. North's score, which is available on a recording, is a good job of film composition, but would have been wrong for “2001" because, like all scores, it attempts to underline the action -- to give us emotional cues. The classical music chosen by Kubrick exists outside the action. It uplifts. It wants to be sublime; it brings a seriousness and transcendence to the visuals.

Consider two examples. The Johann Strauss waltz “Blue Danube,'' which accompanies the docking of the space shuttle and the space station, is deliberately slow, and so is the action. Obviously such a docking process would have to take place with extreme caution (as we now know from experience), but other directors might have found the space ballet too slow, and punched it up with thrilling music, which would have been wrong.

We are asked in the scene to contemplate the process, to stand in space and watch. We know the music. It proceeds as it must. And so, through a peculiar logic, the space hardware moves slowly because it's keeping the tempo of the waltz. At the same time, there is an exaltation in the music that helps us feel the majesty of the process. :

Do you see "Mr Kubrick" in there anywhere?  I don't.  I have been reading movie reviews for YEARS, and I never heard him called Mr Kubrick before.  I wasn't even sure who GO was talking about until he listed all the movies.

RE
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Offline JRM

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Re: Driverless Carz & The Pricetag of Civilization
« Reply #50 on: February 18, 2017, 08:16:44 PM »
Oprah
Prince
Sher
Enya
Drake
Moby
Kubrick
My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

Offline g

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Re: Driverless Carz & The Pricetag of Civilization
« Reply #51 on: February 19, 2017, 04:13:37 AM »
Yes Farmer, get your drift exactly. Half a century later and they haven't come close to what Mr Kubrick presented to us.

Fixed that for you.

WTF calls him "Mr Kubrick"?  He's either called "Stanley Kubrick", or just "Kubrick".

Here's a movie review of 2001 from Roger Ebert (RE  :icon_sunny: )

Quote from: Roger Ebert
|  Roger Ebert
March 27, 1997   | 

The genius is not in how much Stanley Kubrick does in "2001: A Space Odyssey," but in how little. This is the work of an artist so sublimely confident that he doesn't include a single shot simply to keep our attention. He reduces each scene to its essence, and leaves it on screen long enough for us to contemplate it, to inhabit it in our imaginations. Alone among science-fiction movies, “2001" is not concerned with thrilling us, but with inspiring our awe.

No little part of his effect comes from the music. Although Kubrick originally commissioned an original score from Alex North, he used classical recordings as a temporary track while editing the film, and they worked so well that he kept them. This was a crucial decision. North's score, which is available on a recording, is a good job of film composition, but would have been wrong for “2001" because, like all scores, it attempts to underline the action -- to give us emotional cues. The classical music chosen by Kubrick exists outside the action. It uplifts. It wants to be sublime; it brings a seriousness and transcendence to the visuals.

Consider two examples. The Johann Strauss waltz “Blue Danube,'' which accompanies the docking of the space shuttle and the space station, is deliberately slow, and so is the action. Obviously such a docking process would have to take place with extreme caution (as we now know from experience), but other directors might have found the space ballet too slow, and punched it up with thrilling music, which would have been wrong.

We are asked in the scene to contemplate the process, to stand in space and watch. We know the music. It proceeds as it must. And so, through a peculiar logic, the space hardware moves slowly because it's keeping the tempo of the waltz. At the same time, there is an exaltation in the music that helps us feel the majesty of the process. :

Do you see "Mr Kubrick" in there anywhere?  I don't.  I have been reading movie reviews for YEARS, and I never heard him called Mr Kubrick before.  I wasn't even sure who GO was talking about until he listed all the movies.

RE

How sad, the jealousy and hatred of someone who is different.

No wonder the world is in the sorry state it is. Just look at what a pleasant conversation with a new member was turned into by the Communist.

That urge to control, to standardize, to lord over, to ridicule and marginalize, it's in their nature. Too say nothing of the disrespect and the fucking nerve to accuse me of having bad manners and name his gophers as having the same distaste for me. The Bullies always have the gang to point at and summon when their name calling.

How well I remember them in school.  The thugs that thought up abusive names about the other kids who were minding their business and trying to get along. Always taunts and exclamations deriding them for their looks, height, weight, manner of speaking etc.

My newest crimes are the use of the words Dim and Mister.  :icon_scratch: :-\ ::)
« Last Edit: February 19, 2017, 04:16:38 AM by Golden Oxen »

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Re: Driverless Carz & The Pricetag of Civilization
« Reply #52 on: February 19, 2017, 04:38:37 AM »
My newest crimes are the use of the words Dim and Mister.

Your crime is affectation and masking disrespect.

It reminds me of my first meetings with my lawyer, who when we conversed  would always call me "Mr. Engineer".  In return, in the first meeting, I called him "Mr. Cheatham", but his name was Irving and on his Biz Card it said  "I. Chetham" with the Coat of Arms of his Law Firm Dewey, Chetham and Howe.  So in meeting 2, I started calling him Irving instead of Mr. Cheatham.  I also told him to stop calling ME "Mr. Engineer" and please just call me Reverse instead?  Which being a fairly reasonable fellow for a shyster lawyer he did, and we got along OK after that.

This nonsense of pretending to be respectful by dropping on formal honorifics is ridiculous.  I think Stanley Kubrick (SK) was one of the finest directors ever to hit the cinema world.  But NOBODY calls him "Mr. Kubrick".  It's ridiculous.  It makes your prose stilted and anachronistic and just annoying to read.

Get over yourself and your bullshit.  It doesn't fool anyone here.  You're a disrespectful and insulting person.  Own up to it and stop trying to paper it over with honorifics.

RE
« Last Edit: February 19, 2017, 04:43:13 AM by RE »
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Offline luciddreams

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Re: Driverless Carz & The Pricetag of Civilization
« Reply #53 on: February 19, 2017, 06:26:28 AM »


How sad, the jealousy and hatred of someone who is different.

No wonder the world is in the sorry state it is. Just look at what a pleasant conversation with a new member was turned into by the Communist.

That urge to control, to standardize, to lord over, to ridicule and marginalize, it's in their nature. Too say nothing of the disrespect and the fucking nerve to accuse me of having bad manners and name his gophers as having the same distaste for me. The Bullies always have the gang to point at and summon when their name calling.

How well I remember them in school.  The thugs that thought up abusive names about the other kids who were minding their business and trying to get along. Always taunts and exclamations deriding them for their looks, height, weight, manner of speaking etc.

My newest crimes are the use of the words Dim and Mister.  :icon_scratch: :-\ ::)

So a few things here Ox:

First, the other day you referred to RE's "sycophants" and seeing as how I was sided with him on that thread, I assumed you were referring to me as a sycophant of RE's.  Well, I asked you if that was the case.  You never responded.

Secondly, I am actually friends with RE in real life (as well as Eddie, Surly, Monsta, JD, Roamer, and WHD).  IRL I have spent the most time with RE, several weeks at this point, as well as conversing with him via the internet for the past five years (pretty much on a daily basis with some walkabouts here and there).  I've spent countless hours with him on the phone and on skype and for podcasts.  He is not some anonymous internet forum owner to me.  He is my friend.

Usually friends have shit in common.  I became friends with RE because I saw that he saw things pretty much the same as I, and it's the same with the rest of the Diners.  For the most part we share a world view where the future is one of energy/natural resource scarcity within the context of a collapsing global civilization (or at least empire) and a changing climate.  I would say that for the most part all of the Diners would agree on this account, including you Ox. 

Now, occasionally I do disagree with RE.  It's not often because I tend to agree with him on most accounts.  But occasionally I do disagree, and I call him out when I do, and I also call him an asshole.  Now, you still have not answered that you think I'm a sycophant of RE's, but I have to wonder why you have not answered?  We both know that you think I'm his sycophant.  I am no ones sycophant, not even JMG's (and we all know how much I look up to him), nor any of the other collapse authors such as Orlov or JHK.  I happen to agree with all three of them as well.  In fact it's rare that I ever disagree with any of those authors just listed.  That does not make for group think or sycophants. 

Also, it should be noted, that I keep an open mind on all topics we discuss.  I have my opinions on most of them, and some I am much more informed on than others.  No matter how informed I am on a topic, however, there are always those who are more informed.  Also, due to the fact that I'm one of the youngest regular Diners, and certainly no elder here, I always respect y'alls age and wisdom, and I will consider your views when different from mine.  I will consider them because I understand that some things you can only know with age.  No idiot is going to spend time conversing on this forum (unless as a troll).  We are all very intelligent individuals, and we all have our disagreements, but more so we have our agreements. 

So please drop this RE sycophant bullshit Ox!  I'm not a sycophant.  I pride myself in being an autonomous and self realized (well realizing at least) individual.  To call me a sycophant is probably the worst insult you could fling my way, and that is not bullshit.  I hate being called a sycophant more than I hate speaking and not being listened to (which I vehemently hate, next to sitting in stopped traffic or waiting in line for government bureaucracy). 

Now, having said all of that, I will say that I think RE spends a lot of time fucking with you as pertains to the Diner CoC.  I think he busts your balls a bit much on that account, but it's his forum, so what are you gonna do? 

Anyways, please stop calling me a sycophant.  RE does not have a groupie.  We just all like his club here on the Diner, and so we spend our time here, and yes...some of us agree with him on most accounts.  And?  What is the crime in agreeing with somebody when you hold the same world view? 

And just as a preemptive measure, for whatever grammar/syntax/spelling/rules of Her Queen's English or whatever the fuck, that I abused in this post...you can go on and fuck yourself SG Chief  ;D

and Farmer McGregor, we are a 21st century internet family here and we fight a lot...just a heads up...also you'll probably be referred to as FM.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2017, 06:30:24 AM by luciddreams »

Offline g

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Re: Driverless Carz & The Pricetag of Civilization
« Reply #54 on: February 19, 2017, 06:53:25 AM »
My newest crimes are the use of the words Dim and Mister.

Your crime is affectation and masking disrespect.

It reminds me of my first meetings with my lawyer, who when we conversed  would always call me "Mr. Engineer".  In return, in the first meeting, I called him "Mr. Cheatham", but his name was Irving and on his Biz Card it said  "I. Chetham" with the Coat of Arms of his Law Firm Dewey, Chetham and Howe.  So in meeting 2, I started calling him Irving instead of Mr. Cheatham.  I also told him to stop calling ME "Mr. Engineer" and please just call me Reverse instead?  Which being a fairly reasonable fellow for a shyster lawyer he did, and we got along OK after that.

This nonsense of pretending to be respectful by dropping on formal honorifics is ridiculous.  I think Stanley Kubrick (SK) was one of the finest directors ever to hit the cinema world.  But NOBODY calls him "Mr. Kubrick".  It's ridiculous.  It makes your prose stilted and anachronistic and just annoying to read.

Get over yourself and your bullshit.  It doesn't fool anyone here.  You're a disrespectful and insulting person.  Own up to it and stop trying to paper it over with honorifics.

RE

Thank you for more of your hatred and jealousy. Get it off your chest. It won't make you a better person, but may make you feel better.

My original comment to your outlandish attack on me while having a pleasant conversation with a member stands as is, unaltered in the least.

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Re: Driverless Carz & The Pricetag of Civilization
« Reply #55 on: February 19, 2017, 07:15:18 AM »

That urge to control, to standardize, to lord over, to ridicule and marginalize, it's in their nature. Too say nothing of the disrespect and the fucking nerve to accuse me of having bad manners and name his gophers as having the same distaste for me. The Bullies always have the gang to point at and summon when their name calling.


Just to be clear, my list of famous people who are known by one name was simply a playful little romp, riffing on what RE said about Kubrick simply being called Kubrick.  It made me think of Oprah and Sting and Prince, etc. I was just having fun making a little list, and wasn't joining in on a bashing of you, G.O.  In fact, I found RE's statement about your use of "Mr" rather pointless.  Maybe THAT's why I made a silly, pointless little list.
My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

Offline g

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Re: Driverless Carz & The Pricetag of Civilization
« Reply #56 on: February 19, 2017, 07:23:59 AM »
Quote
So a few things here Ox:

First, the other day you referred to RE's "sycophants" and seeing as how I was sided with him on that thread, I assumed you were referring to me as a sycophant of RE's.  Well, I asked you if that was the case.  You never responded.

You assumed wrongly Lucid. Always remember that famous military saying that we all were taught. "ASSUMPTION IS THE MOTHER OF ALL FUCK UPS". It's a saying with much truth in it, but of course there are always exceptions to the rule.

I did not answer you because for the first time since knowing you composed a nasty demeaning posting to me. You know the one I am referring too. Forgot about it by this morning and even sent a friendly posting your way this morning you may have missed.

For further reference a sycophant, when used by me, is the name given to someone who admires someone. It encompasses,  in this case, more folks than one of RE's  admins, such as yourself. However, feel free to wear the shoe if it fits.

I think it's great you guys all get along and play with one another in the real world. Perhaps you might consider forming a softball team, or basketball team and roam the country spreading good will and our name. "The Diners"

The Harlem Globe Trotters of Doom!   :icon_mrgreen: :laugh: :icon_sunny: :icon_sunny: :emthup:

Nice talking to you Lucid, and don't forget that old saying about assumption.  :laugh: ;D


                                                 

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Re: Driverless Carz & The Pricetag of Civilization
« Reply #57 on: February 19, 2017, 07:25:01 AM »
and Farmer McGregor, we are a 21st century internet family here and we fight a lot...just a heads up...also you'll probably be referred to as FM.

Or AM-FM. 

Or Radio.

My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

Offline g

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Re: Driverless Carz & The Pricetag of Civilization
« Reply #58 on: February 19, 2017, 07:31:39 AM »

That urge to control, to standardize, to lord over, to ridicule and marginalize, it's in their nature. Too say nothing of the disrespect and the fucking nerve to accuse me of having bad manners and name his gophers as having the same distaste for me. The Bullies always have the gang to point at and summon when their name calling.


Just to be clear, my list of famous people who are known by one name was simply a playful little romp, riffing on what RE said about Kubrick simply being called Kubrick.  It made me think of Oprah and Sting and Prince, etc. I was just having fun making a little list, and wasn't joining in on a bashing of you, G.O.  In fact, I found RE's statement about your use of "Mr" rather pointless.  Maybe THAT's why I made a silly, pointless little list.

Your posting never entered my mind at the time JRM. I glanced at it quickly skimming it, and in all honesty, in my ignorance of what you were getting at thought it was a list of people that owned Tesla's. Sorry, and while we are markedly different people politically, have always viewed you in a friendly peaceful light.  Peace JRM Peace and Understanding my friend.  :emthup: :icon_sunny:

Offline Farmer McGregor

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Re: Driverless Carz & The Pricetag of Civilization
« Reply #59 on: February 19, 2017, 10:17:31 AM »
and Farmer McGregor, we are a 21st century internet family here and we fight a lot...just a heads up...also you'll probably be referred to as FM.

Or AM-FM. 

Or Radio.
Funny!  'Radio' reminds me that I used to hold a ham license -- still have all the equipment, now ancient vacuum tube behemoths.

As to the "21st century internet family here and we fight a lot" my initial response is to be a little disturbed by it.  Being a little thick-headed, I'm not sure where the friendly horseplay leaves off and vicious personal assaults begin.  One of the things I really hate about the internet is the opportunity to say (write) things that one would never (hopefully ever) say to someone's face.  I keep an eye on a number of blogs since I'm interested in the topics of peak oil and collapse -- realities that I'm convinced we must respond to -- but the only ones I regularly read the comments to are Club Orlov and JMG's ADR precisely because they are moderated and kept refreshingly civil.  Disagreement is to be expected, but I have a thin skin for incivility.  Flame-baiting trolls are in the category of brute beasts fit only to be caught and killed.

Being new to the forum side of this site, I'm only recently digging in to read old threads to get a feel for the various members, so I don't know the histories or relationships between them.  Again, I'm not good at discerning where teasing becomes meanness.  If I find myself being harassed in an unfriendly, uncivilized manner I will take my grub in a to-go box and go find some nice park to dine.  Frankly, GO, I'm wondering a little bit why you are still sitting at the counter; the accusation that "You're a disrespectful and insulting person" has not (yet?) been my observation.  Perhaps if I hang around long enough I will learn otherwise.  I hope not.

Not that I have no sense of humor or can't take friendly and ornery banter.  But life has been pretty effing hard on me with the result that I tend to be serious-minded.  My lifestyle choice to struggle to relearn the lost arts of self-sufficiency through sustainable small-scale regenerative agriculture and animal husbandry keeps me dangerously close to destitution -- I easily qualify for welfare but choose not to avail myself of it.  I have no disposable income and have not had even a short vacation in decades.  But compared to 80 or 90 percent of the globe's population -- especially from a long-term historical perspective -- I'm a rich man who lives in opulent luxury (a hundred year old farmhouse that should be bulldozed by modern American standards).  I'm drawn to The Diner by the topics that are regularly discussed here.  As a result of my circumstances, not being a bored retiree, I have little time for pointless nonsense even though it can be fun, though I will indulge in some occasionally.  Mostly I will just lurk.
Note to Mr. Chief Spelling Gestapo:  I love a good literacy challenge. :partytime2:
I was totally puzzled when I saw this in the comments on this forum topic (Driverless Cars etc.):
I just nailed FM for a Criminal Misspelling.  :icon_sunny:

RE
SG Chief of Police

Later I discovered
Fifty States Research Project etc...
Man-oh-man, I'd ask where to sign up, but some of these...
...involve collaboration between the appropriate department/s of state colleges or universities...
give me the whillies.

SG Alert!:  It's willies, not whillies.

RE
SG Chief of Police
on a completely different forum topic.  Clearly you are not above cross-forum intimidation!
The fact that you were totally correct just sucks!  :oops:
Fair enough.  You may be the boss here, but two can play at that game.  I'm a-gonna fetch out my fine-tooth dictionary comb and go a-huntin'. :whip:

I hope all involved here can keep The Diner a pleasant place to hang around.  Certainly this would make it more hospitable to other potential diners.
Cheers,
Farmer Greg
« Last Edit: February 19, 2017, 12:25:59 PM by Farmer McGregor »
For years we have let ourselves believe that as long as we have money we will have food. This is a mistake. The government will bring forth no food by providing hundreds of billions of dollars to the agribusiness industry.  --Wendell Berry after the 2008 crash

 

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