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Offline Nearingsfault

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Re: Small Dam & Micro-Hydro Building
« Reply #60 on: March 05, 2017, 01:51:04 PM »
Fun reading on a Sunday afternoon
http://www.aboutcivil.org/How-build-small-dams-Construction.html
If its important then try something, fail, disect, learn from it, try again, and again and again until it kills you or you succeed.

Offline RE

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Re: Small Dam & Micro-Hydro Building
« Reply #61 on: March 05, 2017, 02:35:19 PM »
Here's the Street Level View from Google Earth at around the point of the proposed dam.  I drew in a Blue Line where it seems like you could anchor and dam up pretty well.

We can nail it down better if Eddie gets some good on-site Pics.

toothstead 7b
toothstead 7b

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Offline Eddie

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Re: Small Dam & Micro-Hydro Building
« Reply #62 on: March 05, 2017, 04:33:45 PM »
Hold what you got. I'm headed out there in a minute. I'll take my computer and see if I can get it referenced exactly from the photos and the rocks on the ground.

Here's the next hole down.

toothstead 5
toothstead 5

RE

It was further downstream. Lines up with the greenhouse pretty well. If you look straight to the left of the green house, there is a prominent white rock on the far side of the creek, sort of jutting into the creek.. There's too much shadow on the other side to see much, but that's the spot. I don't think it would produce more than a four foot head unless the dam was above the level of the flat rock. The more I look, the less viable the turbine seems. Not sure though.




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Offline JRM

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Re: Small Dam & Micro-Hydro Building
« Reply #63 on: March 05, 2017, 04:42:49 PM »
Not to rain on your parade, but what will likely happen to creek water in most places after a major collapse? ... that is a collapse of "the (supposed) rule of law"?   As it is--presently--, most places regulate how much water the upstream / downstream folks can have access to.  I suppose in a post-social-collapse world only the badasses with guns will have water, which they'd happily sell you for, say, half of your potatoes and pigs.

Maybe you'll be needing bigger guns and a bigger army than they gots?
« Last Edit: March 05, 2017, 04:47:42 PM by JRM »
My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

Offline Eddie

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Re: Small Dam & Micro-Hydro Building
« Reply #64 on: March 05, 2017, 04:44:54 PM »
For pinning down the spots for anchoring the dam better.

toothstead 6
toothstead 6

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White rock above the 8, call that one 9.

Directly above 9, across the creek and even further downstream, that might be the rock ledge I was going to tie into...call that one 10.  I think that's the spot, but you could build a dam anywhere downstream from there for about another 40 or 50 yards.
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Offline Eddie

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Re: Small Dam & Micro-Hydro Building
« Reply #65 on: March 05, 2017, 04:50:53 PM »
Not to rain on your parade, but what will likely happen to creek water in most places after a major collapse? ... that is a collapse of "the (supposed) rule of law"?   As it is--presently--, most places regulate how much water the upstream folks can have access to.  I suppose in a post-social-collapse world only the badasses with guns will have water, which they'd happily sell you for, say, half of your potatoes and pigs.

Maybe you'll be needing bigger guns and a bigger army than they gots?

If you don't impede the flow of the stream, there is no impact on your downstream neighbors. What I'm talking about is water neutral.

The water law is much different here than where you live though. Texas has right of capture, which means you can pump as much as you want, basically. I don't support that, but it is the law as I understand it.

What I want to build won't cause any negative impact on anybody or the ecosystem. I'm not sure I understand your hostile post.
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Offline JRM

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Re: Small Dam & Micro-Hydro Building
« Reply #66 on: March 05, 2017, 05:05:00 PM »
The water law is much different here than where you live though. Texas has right of capture, which means you can pump as much as you want, basically. I don't support that, but it is the law as I understand it.

What I want to build won't cause any negative impact on anybody or the ecosystem. I'm not sure I understand your hostile post.

Sorry!  I didn't mean to be hostile.  It's just funny.... Not ha-ha funny, but funny odd / strange ... that almost anything I say is decided by most in here to be wildly over-optimistic to the point of silly naivete.  Disregardable.  Since, of course, everything will break down in the nearish future.   Well, if that's so, water law will mean nothing, right?  And so there will be an owner class -- owning all of the water -- right?  You know, the big asshole with all the guns. 

I thought this was how it rolls in the Diner.  You have to imagine and prepare for the worst.  Right?

Maybe folks will find out a post-collapse way to be neighborly.   But if I said that, well, that idea would be regarded as pathetic, silly, stupid.   Mainly because I'm looking for a pre-collapse way of being neighborly.

Maybe I'm joining the We're Fucked Club.   You got enough guns for that?
« Last Edit: March 05, 2017, 05:07:17 PM by JRM »
My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

Offline Nearingsfault

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Re: Small Dam & Micro-Hydro Building
« Reply #67 on: March 05, 2017, 05:15:00 PM »
Eddie you will cause minor environmental changes. A deeper body of water will maintain a lower temperature which might impact the ecosystem of the creek. Next comes by slowing the water down you will cause the sediment load to deposit that will also cause minor changes to the food supply down stream. Then there is the increase of the surface layer due to the reservoir which allows for more local evaporation you get a slightly higher humidity micro climate by leaving less water downstream.  I dont think it matters in the grand scheme of things but not totally benign either. We cannot touch a creek here but as you say water law is very different. 
Best regards, David Baillie
If its important then try something, fail, disect, learn from it, try again, and again and again until it kills you or you succeed.

Offline Eddie

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Re: Small Dam & Micro-Hydro Building
« Reply #68 on: March 05, 2017, 05:28:03 PM »
It would back up water to the top of this little falls.
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Offline Eddie

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Re: Small Dam & Micro-Hydro Building
« Reply #69 on: March 05, 2017, 05:31:38 PM »
Eddie you will cause minor environmental changes. A deeper body of water will maintain a lower temperature which might impact the ecosystem of the creek. Next comes by slowing the water down you will cause the sediment load to deposit that will also cause minor changes to the food supply down stream. Then there is the increase of the surface layer due to the reservoir which allows for more local evaporation you get a slightly higher humidity micro climate by leaving less water downstream.  I dont think it matters in the grand scheme of things but not totally benign either. We cannot touch a creek here but as you say water law is very different. 
Best regards, David Baillie

If you saw what people do to creeks here, you'd understand why I think my plan is pretty benign. I understand that there would be effects, I just consider them extremely negligible. It's a matter of scale.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline RE

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Re: Small Dam & Micro-Hydro Building
« Reply #70 on: March 05, 2017, 05:38:49 PM »
For pinning down the spots for anchoring the dam better.

toothstead 6
toothstead 6

RE

White rock above the 8, call that one 9.

Directly above 9, across the creek and even further downstream, that might be the rock ledge I was going to tie into...call that one 10.  I think that's the spot, but you could build a dam anywhere downstream from there for about another 40 or 50 yards.

That looks like this stretch.

toothstead 9
toothstead 9

Do you have a GPS?  With Lat/Lon I can pin it down to however good your GPS is, which is usually around 10-15 feet.

Then with a few on the ground shots we would have more to work with.

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Offline Farmer McGregor

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Re: Small Dam & Micro-Hydro Building
« Reply #71 on: March 05, 2017, 06:00:52 PM »
Eddie you will cause minor environmental changes. A deeper body of water will maintain a lower temperature which might impact the ecosystem of the creek. Next comes by slowing the water down you will cause the sediment load to deposit that will also cause minor changes to the food supply down stream. Then there is the increase of the surface layer due to the reservoir which allows for more local evaporation you get a slightly higher humidity micro climate by leaving less water downstream.  I dont think it matters in the grand scheme of things but not totally benign either. We cannot touch a creek here but as you say water law is very different. 
Best regards, David Baillie

If you saw what people do to creeks here, you'd understand why I think my plan is pretty benign. I understand that there would be effects, I just consider them extremely negligible. It's a matter of scale.
David is right, of course.
BUT...  Here in Colorado they are struggling to get the beaver population back since they've found that as a general rule, when you slow down and impound water, the net effect is positive for a whole host of reasons.  I suspect that, assuming you accomplish this thing, you will really enjoy what nature does with the micro-environment that it will create.  Your other swimming hole, is the area surrounding it more verdant and pleasant than the dryer creekside areas?  More biodiversity?

He mentions one of the ongoing maintenance jobs you'll be faced with: de-sedimentation.  My brother had to totally drain and re-excavate his pond a few years back because it had filled nearly full with sediment.  (It didn't help that an upstream neighbor had failed to maintain his earthen dam and it had washed out a couple times.)  He was able tell sell a lot of the excavated material because it made fantastic topsoil.  To do the work he restored a 1950's vintage cable-hoist dragline which I got to operate.  What a beast!   The thing would only have been cooler if it had been steam powered rather than gas.

In consideration of that maintenance issue, you probably should incorporate the means to open it up to full flow during the dry season in case you need it.  Another problem to consider.
--Greg
« Last Edit: March 05, 2017, 06:02:48 PM by Farmer McGregor »
For years we have let ourselves believe that as long as we have money we will have food. This is a mistake. The government will bring forth no food by providing hundreds of billions of dollars to the agribusiness industry.  --Wendell Berry after the 2008 crash

Offline RE

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Re: Small Dam & Micro-Hydro Building
« Reply #72 on: March 05, 2017, 06:04:32 PM »
In consideration of that maintenance issue, you probably should incorporate the means to open it up to full flow during the dry season in case you need it.  Another problem to consider.
--Greg

I already suggested installing a sliding vertical gate.  :icon_sunny:

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Offline Farmer McGregor

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Re: Small Dam & Micro-Hydro Building
« Reply #73 on: March 05, 2017, 06:23:44 PM »
In consideration of that maintenance issue, you probably should incorporate the means to open it up to full flow during the dry season in case you need it.  Another problem to consider.
--Greg
I already suggested installing a sliding vertical gate.  :icon_sunny:
RE
That's exactly what I had in mind.  It will leak a little, but if properly constructed it would be minimal.  Our irrigation supply canals use them to open into feeder ditches or laterals, like my own.  There is very little leakage through my head gate when it's closed, and it's a many decades old piece of junk.  The static hydraulic pressure against the flat gate panel effectively presses it against the frame for a good seal.
For years we have let ourselves believe that as long as we have money we will have food. This is a mistake. The government will bring forth no food by providing hundreds of billions of dollars to the agribusiness industry.  --Wendell Berry after the 2008 crash

Offline jdwheeler42

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Re: Small Dam & Micro-Hydro Building
« Reply #74 on: March 05, 2017, 06:54:03 PM »
He mentions one of the ongoing maintenance jobs you'll be faced with: de-sedimentation.  My brother had to totally drain and re-excavate his pond a few years back because it had filled nearly full with sediment.  (It didn't help that an upstream neighbor had failed to maintain his earthen dam and it had washed out a couple times.)  He was able tell sell a lot of the excavated material because it made fantastic topsoil.  To do the work he restored a 1950's vintage cable-hoist dragline which I got to operate.  What a beast!   The thing would only have been cooler if it had been steam powered rather than gas.

In consideration of that maintenance issue, you probably should incorporate the means to open it up to full flow during the dry season in case you need it.  Another problem to consider.
Possible solutions:

http://www.ponddampiping.com/syphon1.html


http://www.whatpond.com/pond-construction-site/


http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/A/ANR-1114/index2.tmpl
Making pigs fly is easy... that is, of course, after you have built the catapult....

 

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