AuthorTopic: Middle Age White People Dying by the Truckload  (Read 3221 times)

Offline RE

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Middle Age White People Dying by the Truckload
« on: March 23, 2017, 03:17:10 AM »
They got paid money to do this study?  I could have told you this 5 years ago without the study.  In fact I did do that.  Why doesn't anyone pay me money for my studies? ???  :icon_scratch:

RE

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/03/23/521083335/the-forces-driving-middle-aged-white-peoples-deaths-of-despair

The Forces Driving Middle-Aged White People's 'Deaths Of Despair'
Audio will be available later today.

March 23, 20175:00 AM ET
Heard on Morning Edition

Jessica Boddy

In 2015, when researchers Ann Case and Angus Deaton discovered that death rates had been rising dramatically since 1999 among middle-aged white Americans, they weren't sure why people were dying younger, reversing decades of longer life expectancy.

Now the husband-and-wife economists say they have a better understanding of what's causing these "deaths of despair" by suicide, drugs and alcohol.


In a follow-up to their groundbreaking 2015 work, they say that a lack of steady, well-paying jobs for whites without college degrees has caused pain, distress and social dysfunction to build up over time. The mortality rate for that group, ages 45 to 54, increased by a half-percent each year from 1999 to 2013.

But whites with college degrees haven't suffered the same lack of economic opportunity, and haven't seen the same loss of life expectancy. The study was published Thursday in Brookings Papers on Economic Activity.

Case and Deaton, who are both at Princeton University, spoke with NPR's David Greene about what's driving these trends. The interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.

Interview Highlights

On the original discovery of rising mortality rates for middle-aged whites

Deaton: Mortality rates have been going down forever. There's been a huge increase in life expectancy and reduction in mortality over 100 years or more, and then for all of this to suddenly go into reverse [for whites aged 45 to 54], we thought it must be wrong. We spent weeks checking out numbers because we just couldn't believe that this could have happened, or that if it had, someone else must have already noticed. It seems like we were right and that no one else had picked it up.

We knew the proximate causes — we know what they were dying from. We knew suicides were going up rapidly, and that overdoses mostly from prescription drugs were going up, and that alcoholic liver disease was going up. The deeper questions were why those were happening — there's obviously some underlying malaise, reasons for which we [didn't] know.

On what's driving these early deaths

Case: These deaths of despair have been accompanied by reduced labor force participation, reduced marriage rates, increases in reports of poor health and poor mental health. So we are beginning to thread a story in that it's possible that [the trend is] consistent with the labor market collapsing for people with less than a college degree. In turn, those people are being less able to form stable marriages, and in turn that has effects on the kind of economic and social supports that people need in order to thrive.

In general, the longer you're in the labor force, the more you earn — in part because you understand your job better and you're more efficient at your job, you've had on-the-job training, you belong to a union, and so your wages go up with age. That's happened less and less the later and later you've been born and the later you enter this labor market.

Deaton: We're thinking of this in terms of something that's been going on for a long time, something that's emerged as the iceberg has risen out of the water. We think of this as part of the decline of the white working class. If you go back to the early '70s when you had the so-called blue-collar aristocrats, those jobs have slowly crumbled away and many more men are finding themselves in a much more hostile labor market with lower wages, lower quality and less permanent jobs. That's made it harder for them to get married. They don't get to know their own kids. There's a lot of social dysfunction building up over time. There's a sense that these people have lost this sense of status and belonging. And these are classic preconditions for suicide.

Case: The rates of suicide are much higher among men [than women]. And drug overdoses and alcohol-related liver death are higher among men, too. But the [mortality] trends are identical for men and women with a high school degree or less. So we think of this as people, either quickly with a gun or slowly with drugs and alcohol, are killing themselves. Under that body count there's a lot of social dysfunction that we think ultimately we may be able to pin to poor job prospects over the life course.

On how mortality rates differ among races

Deaton: Hispanics [have always had lower mortality rates] than whites. It's a bit of a puzzle that's not fully resolved, to put it mildly. It's always been true that mortality rates have been higher and life expectancy shorter for African Americans than for whites. What is happening now is that gap is closing and, for some groups, it's actually crossed. What we see in the new work is if you compare whites with a high school degree or less, at least their mortality rates are now higher than mortality rates for African Americans as a whole. If you compare whites with a high school degree or less with blacks with a high school degree or less, their mortality rates have converged. It's as if poorly educated whites have now taken over from blacks as the lowest rung of society in terms of mortality rates.

On the geography of mortality rates

Case: There's not a part of the country that has not been touched by this. We like to make the comparison between Nevada and Utah to look at the extent to which good health behaviors lead to longer life. Two thirds of Utahans are Mormons. They don't drink, they don't smoke, and they don't drink tea or coffee. Two thirds of Nevadans live in Las Vegas paradise, where there is a little more of everything, so the heart disease mortality rates are twice as high in Nevada as they are in Utah.

But both states are [in the] top 10 for deaths of despair. Utah has had a terrifically hard time dealing with the opioid crisis, and suicide rates [are] going up as well. There's a lot of surprise here in parts of the country that we weren't really expecting to see.
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Offline RE

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Re: Middle Age White People Dying by the Truckload
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2017, 03:32:59 AM »
For those of you interested in complete details of why more White People are dying faster, here is the link to the full 60 page paper explaining this mysterious phenomenon.  Thank god there are economists out there who can work out these tough to understand problems for us.  ::)

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/6_casedeaton.pdf

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Offline knarf

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Re: Middle Age White People Dying by the Truckload
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2017, 05:23:33 AM »
For those of you interested in complete details of why more White People are dying faster, here is the link to the full 60 page paper explaining this mysterious phenomenon.  Thank god there are economists out there who can work out these tough to understand problems for us.  ::)

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/6_casedeaton.pdf

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I think this also might be a world wide phenomena also. Collapse is everywhere, except in the Castle at the top of the Bean plant. That too is being eroded away. With such massive change people are disoriented, confused, bewildered, depressed, and afraid. When I was about 18 a friend got some real opium. I tried it, and it was simply marvelous. I think that if I had a steady supply, I could easily become a daily user. All we legally can have is alcohol. It is not the same effect of an opium. I still think they should make it legal by prescription, and then people could just float to their death, instead of being tortured to death by the terrible decisions that our "representatives" have made. Man, I am so glad that I am 64, and this journey is coming to an end in a few years. I look forward to a infinite dirt nap.  :)
NECROCAPITALISM at http://openmind693.wordpress.com ‘Rolling thunder. Shock. A noble one in fear and dread sets things in order and is watchful.’ I-Ching (Hex.51)

Offline RE

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Re: Middle Age White People Dying by the Truckload
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2017, 05:38:19 AM »
I think this also might be a world wide phenomena also. Collapse is everywhere, except in the Castle at the top of the Bean plant. That too is being eroded away. With such massive change people are disoriented, confused, bewildered, depressed, and afraid. When I was about 18 a friend got some real opium. I tried it, and it was simply marvelous. I think that if I had a steady supply, I could easily become a daily user. All we legally can have is alcohol. It is not the same effect of an opium. I still think they should make it legal by prescription, and then people could just float to their death, instead of being tortured to death by the terrible decisions that our "representatives" have made. Man, I am so glad that I am 64, and this journey is coming to an end in a few years. I look forward to a infinite dirt nap.  :)

Suicide rates are definitely up globally, and not just amongst White People.  After all, a few thousand Indian Farmers commit suicide every year.  Opiate use also up, overdose rates up.  Not a real happy bunch of campers out there. lol.

My drug to combat the problem is humor.  It's FREE!  I also have an unlimited supply of it.  Really, nothing depresses me because I can always find funny stuff in it.  :icon_mrgreen:

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Offline Nearingsfault

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Re: Middle Age White People Dying by the Truckload
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2017, 05:50:41 AM »
It's the tone that comes across in the researchers words that is the funniest part for me.  That "what could it possibly be"  "nobody saw this coming" perplexed wording.  It's sad but darkly humorous.
Best regards, David
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Offline luciddreams

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Re: Middle Age White People Dying by the Truckload
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2017, 08:11:28 AM »
It's the tone that comes across in the researchers words that is the funniest part for me.  That "what could it possibly be"  "nobody saw this coming" perplexed wording.  It's sad but darkly humorous.
Best regards, David

Yeah, 60 pages of "whatever could it be?"  Who's reading that shit anyways? 

GM has applied for around 5 jobs in the past few months.  She got an interview for one of them.  All of them required a college degree.  All of them were filled by other candidates.  Luckily she's taking it as a sign that she needs to put more of her educated energy into helping my business succeed (well, our business now).  There are plenty of dumb ass jobs that don't pay enough that don't require a degree out there.  McD's down the road is hiring, and the liquor store is hiring part time.  There are plenty of these service jobs to be had.  They don't pay enough to even live in a single wide trailer that you rent in a trailer park.  Of course people are killing themselves with drugs and alcohol.  Can you blame them?  I don't.  It seems like the natural thing to do in this depressing anti-culture. 

One of the jobs GM applied for was working at a local news station doing graphics.  She worked at Fox Charlotte for a number of years before we got married, so she had experience and the college degree required.  She got offered the job.  Starting pay was $8.24 an hour and it was a 25 mile commute.  WTF $8.24 an hour!!!   Who the fuck gets a college degree and then goes to work at $8.24 an hour?!!!  You wouldn't even be able to pay back your fucking college debt at that number.  The real shitty part about this is that 12 years ago, when she worked for Fox, she started at $8.24 an hour.  What are these people smoking? 

Offline RE

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Re: Middle Age White People Dying by the Truckload
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2017, 12:42:59 PM »
It's the tone that comes across in the researchers words that is the funniest part for me.  That "what could it possibly be"  "nobody saw this coming" perplexed wording.  It's sad but darkly humorous.
Best regards, David

Yeah, 60 pages of "whatever could it be?"  Who's reading that shit anyways? 

GM has applied for around 5 jobs in the past few months.  She got an interview for one of them.  All of them required a college degree.  All of them were filled by other candidates.  Luckily she's taking it as a sign that she needs to put more of her educated energy into helping my business succeed (well, our business now).  There are plenty of dumb ass jobs that don't pay enough that don't require a degree out there.  McD's down the road is hiring, and the liquor store is hiring part time.  There are plenty of these service jobs to be had.  They don't pay enough to even live in a single wide trailer that you rent in a trailer park.  Of course people are killing themselves with drugs and alcohol.  Can you blame them?  I don't.  It seems like the natural thing to do in this depressing anti-culture. 

One of the jobs GM applied for was working at a local news station doing graphics.  She worked at Fox Charlotte for a number of years before we got married, so she had experience and the college degree required.  She got offered the job.  Starting pay was $8.24 an hour and it was a 25 mile commute.  WTF $8.24 an hour!!!   Who the fuck gets a college degree and then goes to work at $8.24 an hour?!!!  You wouldn't even be able to pay back your fucking college debt at that number.  The real shitty part about this is that 12 years ago, when she worked for Fox, she started at $8.24 an hour.  What are these people smoking?

Yea, I often wonder about all the people I see in their 30s and 40s working as checkout clerks or shelf stockers at Walmart.  Or Taxi Drivers or Fast Food Workers.  All these dead end low paid jobs used to be filled by teenagers or college students.  Not anymore.

How can they afford to live?  The only way is if they are still single and living with their retired parents.  Can you imagine doing a dead end job like that from the time you are 25 to 45 years old?  Who would not have a drug and alcohol problem after that?

When I first started in the Gymnasti Biz in the 80s I made $20/hr.  Pretty good money in the 80s for an extra part-time gig 2nd job I did for fun and some extra money. The most I ever made was $25/hr as a full time Head Coach and Program director.  When I finished out my career, I was back to $20/hr part time.  Fortunately I had my savings from my trucking years, because that's not enough to meet all your bills anymore. At least I enjoyed my job though.

Nowadays, to live any kind of decent life in industrial culture you need to be making $100K.  How many jobs out there pay that?  5% maybe. That means 95 out every 100 people you see every day are stuck in go nowhere dead end jobs and probably are deep in debt too.  The culture tells them also that this is their fault, they didn't succeed because they were lazy and/or stupid.  By the time they are 45, they feel miserable and worthless.  Still 20 years to go also before they can collect Social Security. So they pull the plug on themselves.

Big shocking revelation here in this paper.  How could this be?  lol.

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Offline K-Dog

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Re: Middle Age White People Dying by the Truckload
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2017, 02:08:27 PM »
I find the difference between those having a college degree vs those who do not interesting.  I doubt the employment prospects of the unemployed having a college degree are much better than the other group.  I suspect the difference in mortality is because those with a college degree have a better social and economic safety net to fall back on in tough times and we do not need a study for that.

The job creators need to get to work.  They have been dogging it and we are all living on borrowed time.  Something's got to give.
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

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Re: Middle Age White People Dying by the Truckload
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2017, 09:18:54 PM »


The job creators need to get to work.  They have been dogging it and we are all living on borrowed time.  Something's got to give.

I've got a job for somebody.  $10 per hour cash.  Permaculture, bamboo, landscaping...

 :icon_scratch:

Offline RE

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Re: Middle Age White People Dying by the Truckload
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2017, 09:39:32 PM »


The job creators need to get to work.  They have been dogging it and we are all living on borrowed time.  Something's got to give.

I've got a job for somebody.  $10 per hour cash.  Permaculture, bamboo, landscaping...

 :icon_scratch:

If they live at home in their parent's basement, that's a good job.

If they are 35 and hope for some kind of better life, not so good.

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Offline luciddreams

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Re: Middle Age White People Dying by the Truckload
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2017, 05:35:44 AM »


The job creators need to get to work.  They have been dogging it and we are all living on borrowed time.  Something's got to give.

I've got a job for somebody.  $10 per hour cash.  Permaculture, bamboo, landscaping...

 :icon_scratch:

If they live at home in their parent's basement, that's a good job.

If they are 35 and hope for some kind of better life, not so good.

RE

Right, which goes a long way in explaining why I do not have an employee.  I could hire a Mexican or two...for now...if Dump gets his way that will change. 

Guess I'll just have to be a one man show until my boys get old enough to help.  Pending they are interested in what I'm doing.  Of course by then there will likely be even less options then there are now.  Going to work for dads business might be the best chance they have, and that's if I can stay in business.  It's looking pretty good for AEL right now though.  I'm going to be interviewed by "Carolina Gardener" magazine.  They did a piece on my last permaculture clients yard and AEL was mentioned.  Check out the website GM made for AEL. 

www.ancientearthlandscaping.com

Offline RE

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Re: Middle Age White People Dying by the Truckload
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2017, 06:29:40 AM »


The job creators need to get to work.  They have been dogging it and we are all living on borrowed time.  Something's got to give.

I've got a job for somebody.  $10 per hour cash.  Permaculture, bamboo, landscaping...

 :icon_scratch:

If they live at home in their parent's basement, that's a good job.

If they are 35 and hope for some kind of better life, not so good.

RE

Right, which goes a long way in explaining why I do not have an employee.  I could hire a Mexican or two...for now...if Dump gets his way that will change. 

Guess I'll just have to be a one man show until my boys get old enough to help.  Pending they are interested in what I'm doing.  Of course by then there will likely be even less options then there are now.  Going to work for dads business might be the best chance they have, and that's if I can stay in business.  It's looking pretty good for AEL right now though.  I'm going to be interviewed by "Carolina Gardener" magazine.  They did a piece on my last permaculture clients yard and AEL was mentioned.  Check out the website GM made for AEL. 

www.ancientearthlandscaping.com

Nice looking website.  :icon_sunny:

What about GM?  She could drive a mower.

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Offline K-Dog

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Re: Middle Age White People Dying by the Truckload
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2017, 01:18:29 PM »
In my last stint at unemployment I worked landscaping for a cousin one day a week.  He was able to pay me $20.00 an hour and it was not charity.  He pays the same to other people for the same work.  He bills at a high enough rate to pay his employee's somewhat decently.  This was for ground maintenance at a waterfront Seattle mansion.

Lucid, if you can't up your billing rate to pay an employee more you really don't have a job to offer.  Perhaps you need to raise your rates?
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline K-Dog

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Re: Middle Age White People Dying by the Truckload
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2017, 01:29:25 PM »
Luciid,

Growing up with no bamboo in the Midwest I became very interested in it when I moved to Seattle.  There is a bamboo nursery in Redmond about twenty miles from Downtown.  It is owned (or was years ago) by a couple of hostile unfriendly lesbians.  They had outrageous prices but people seemed happy to pay.  Landscaping is in general not a basic need and the money to pay for it is somewhat discretionary.  People who can afford landscaping can afford to pay enough so the workers doing it live decently.
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline RE

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Re: Middle Age White People Dying by the Truckload
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2017, 01:42:02 PM »
In my last stint at unemployment I worked landscaping for a cousin one day a week.  He was able to pay me $20.00 an hour and it was not charity.  He pays the same to other people for the same work.  He bills at a high enough rate to pay his employee's somewhat decently.  This was for ground maintenance at a waterfront Seattle mansion.

Lucid, if you can't up your billing rate to pay an employee more you really don't have a job to offer.  Perhaps you need to raise your rates?

KD, you live in San Francisco, CA.  LD lives in Boiling Springs, SC.  Totally different economy.  If he raised his rates very much, then another landscaper would undercut his prices.

You are correct though that until he can offer a better rate of pay, he doesn't really have a job to offer.

RE
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