AuthorTopic: The Psychology of Modern Leftism  (Read 6813 times)

Offline luciddreams

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Re: The Psychology of Modern Leftism
« Reply #60 on: June 15, 2017, 06:53:29 AM »
Brings up some interesting questions.

1. Is violence against persons, as an act of political protest justified, ever?

I don't know as I can answer that. I know that I will never write anything on the internet that advocates violence. These days that's just asking to be surveilled. In general, I feel too much for people, and I could never harm anyone just because they work for some corporation or because they might be doing work in areas I don't like, like GMO's.

It would be different if I were called to defend myself against undeserved aggressive action by police. The big problem there is that when you fight the law, the law almost always wins, and lately it's okay for cops to burn down houses and kill suspected criminals who have yet to be charged. I'm not a martyr.

2. Is the kind of anarchy carried out by Black Bloc really effective? Does it just give non-violent protesters a bad name?

We have a tradition of at least giving lip service to non-violence in this country. We got there by way of Martin Luther King, who was influenced by Ghandi.  Non-violent protest certainly works, but you need NUMBERS. Big numbers. So far that hasn't happened. Not with Occupy. The last big non-violent protests were against the Vietnam war.

Gotta go now. More later.

To  your first question, I spent a lot of time thinking about this last night after reading the article you linked to (great writer btw). 

I don't think violence is ever a good option.  The main reason is because it comes from hate and hate destroys you from within.  When you are being attacked, if fleeing is not an option, then you have no other choice.  Sometimes the choice is removed for us.  In the case of political violence to affect change it can certainly be effective.  You can get results with violence.  It's still not a good idea for a number of reasons.  Mailing people bombs is definitely not justifiable.  A case can be made that TK was a hypocrite.  He used a gun to hunt rabbits after all.  If you are willing to kill on account of technology and industry then you better not be hypocritical about things.  His gun was made by industry using technology.  I highly doubt that he made his own gun and bullets.  I'm sure he used other things in his cabin as well, like a pot to cook on, utensils, and a plethora of other items made by industry. 

To your second question, is it effective?  I think it can be, but then we don't negotiate with terrorists.  The fact of the matter is that nothing is going to change the momentum of BAU.  Well, nothing but declining fossil energy resources.  As I have said, demand destruction can keep this juggernaut alive and kicking for the rest of my life.  Demand destruction combined with war.  1984 style.  They were short on everything in 1984.  Razors were rare to come by as was chocolate.  War was always.  We will get to that point eventually, and nothing is going to stop our fate. 

There is no political revolution that is going to change anything.  OWS was as close as we will get.  Standing Rock was the next best and we see what that amounted to...some internet videos that were shocking.  We were shocked that the police would do such violence to the peaceful Natives.  Shit...I wasn't shocked in the least.  I knew they would run over them without blinking and that the Black Snake would cross without any trouble. 

Further, I'd like to comment about nature and it's role in the TK case.  I sympathize with his anger at industry for destroying nature.  For making it ugly.  I used to get angry when I would go backpacking and planes would fly overhead, or helicopters.  There was just no escaping technology.  There is no escaping the ugliness that is industry.  But we are not separate from nature.  We are a product of nature, and to some extent the things that man does cannot be unnatural.  We speak of something being unnatural in a bad way, like an atom bomb, fuckushima, roundup, gmo's, and just man made pollution in general.  In a manner of speaking none of those things are unnatural because they are a product of man who is a product of nature.  They are, however, all ill advised for reasons of self preservation.  Nature does not care one way or the other.  These things are all a product of nature. 

Recently I took the family to visit some like minded friends.  They have a 4 acre homestead with two children whom they are homeschooling out in BFE SC.  Goats, pigs, chickens, ducks, food forest.  They are doing it.  Yet they still have to engage with BAU to pay the mortgage and buy other things...like food.  Our children played and had a wonderful time.  No smart phone reception.  We got home and found a tick in one of my son's ear.  A tick that may have been carrying Lyme disease.  Lyme disease has no cure.  That tick was straight out of nature, and that tick doesn't give a shit about my son, or the disease that he may have transmitted.  Just as mosquitoes don't care for their victims.  Just as hurricanes, earth quakes, tornadoes, tsunamis, and volcanoes don't care about the destruction they reap on man.  Nature is impartial and indifferent to the plight of man, and yet we are nature.  We just like to think we are something different, but that comes from Christianity IMO...when you go to the roots at least.  The idea of ascension into the clouds where everything is clean and pure.  Not dirty and of this Earth.  Not natural. 

I was thinking about that tick and Lyme.  Then I started thinking about CAFO's and air conditioning and indoor plumbing and my truck.  I like affordable lunch meat.  It's not the best thing to be eating, but it tastes good.  I'm aware of the process by which the meat makes it's way to me.  The animals are treated horribly and are unhealthy due to this process.  Pumped up with steroids and antibiotics and God knows what else.  Why do I buy products brought to me via this horrible process?  Money is why.  It's hot as fuck in the south in the summer.  I like to have a cool environment to retreat too where I'm not sweating non-stop.  I get tired of sweating all of the time, and if I were to not have air conditioning then I would sweat for about 4 months non stop.  I'm happy and grateful to not have to sweat all of the time.  Indoor plumbing is also nice.  I like being able to take a shower to clean myself, and to have running water in the house.  I could do without shitting and pissing in potable water.  I like my truck as well, and this is probably the most egregious aspect on my list.  The energy that went into it's creation, and the energy that must continue servicing it, are astronomical.  It's extremely inefficient using only approximately 30% of the energy burned (70% lost as heat off the engine block).  It pollutes the atmosphere that sustains us.  Why do I drive a truck?  Money is why. 

Are all of those things unnatural?  As I was thinking about them I came to realize that I like the comfort and convenience brought to me by these things.  Electricity is another big one that should be on that list.  Do I want electricity to go away?  Hell no!  I don't want to sweat my ass off all of the time! 

I can continue ruminating on this topic, but this post is getting long, and I've got 30 yards of mulch to go spread for money.  I'll think on this more today and report back my findings.  Hopefully it will keep the conversation going.   :)

Offline RE

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Re: The Psychology of Modern Leftism
« Reply #61 on: June 15, 2017, 07:13:43 AM »
I like to have a cool environment to retreat too where I'm not sweating non-stop.  I get tired of sweating all of the time, and if I were to not have air conditioning then I would sweat for about 4 months non stop.  I'm happy and grateful to not have to sweat all of the time.

You'll never sweat in Alaska!  :icon_sunny:

It's the best part of the Last Great Frontier!  None of the buildings even have Air Conditioning!  Well, except for big superstores like Walmart anyhow.

Current outside temp as I pack up the Stealth Van is a balmy 46F.  Nice and Sunny today though, so by noon I figure it will make it to 60F.  Maybe.

RE
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Offline vwclown

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Re: The Psychology of Modern Leftism
« Reply #62 on: June 15, 2017, 08:13:17 AM »
RE, I'm so glad you're back inside The Diner forum and not just on the "RE is dying" thread.  I know you need days off, that certainly makes sense, but this forum reminds me of a small town coffee shop where people look forward to "the regulars".  I don't know how to act when your usual table is empty for too long. - vwclown     

Offline knarf

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Re: The Psychology of Modern Leftism
« Reply #63 on: June 15, 2017, 09:37:35 AM »
In the monastery we try to live as simply as possible. We raise goats, which we get get milk, cheese, meat, and ICE CREAM. :) We raise chickens, which we get eggs and meat. This year our garden is being eaten by a family of ground hogs ( mother and about 4 wee ones). We heat in the winter with a wood burning stove ( pollution ), but sometimes when it is about 45 degrees we use small space heaters, and I have to put one in the pump house when it drops below 10 degrees, the rest of the time we run a light bulb in it when it is below freezing but not so cold. Occasionally I drive into town, about 15 miles, and Misa drives to her housecleaning jobs about four days a week ( pollution/oil). I use a old 1952 Ford 8n tractor to brush hog, and bring in our wood supply and and carry the mess while cleaning the goat and chicken pens. ( pollution/oil). Like LD I can't stand the hot and humid weather when it gets over about 85 degrees, so we have two window air conditioners we turn on. When I first got here 30 years ago we had no air conditioning for about 10 years. I was so uncomfortable I moved by bed and books to our cement cellar.
  Misa has a cell phone for her family, costumers, and calling companies that have sold us some piece of shit. We pay a internet satellite bill each month. We run two freezers for meat, milk, and various other food supplies. So, I would say we are very dependent on things that are using our earths energy supply. We live like a king and queen compared to over half the people in our world, and are participating in the collapse of our world. So be it.

  ( Though our garden has failed this year, it is over run with Lambs Quarters. We love them, and have frozen about 4 quarts of them so far.) 
NECROCAPITALISM at http://openmind693.wordpress.com ‘Rolling thunder. Shock. A noble one in fear and dread sets things in order and is watchful.’ I-Ching (Hex.51)

Offline RE

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Re: The Psychology of Modern Leftism
« Reply #64 on: June 15, 2017, 10:10:33 AM »
Like LD I can't stand the hot and humid weather when it gets over about 85 degrees, so we have two window air conditioners we turn on. When I first got here 30 years ago we had no air conditioning for about 10 years. I was so uncomfortable I moved by bed and books to our cement cellar.

I am scouting for a small portable air conditioner for the Stealth Van.   I absolutely cannot stand hot muggy weather, that makes me sweat even when doing nothing, and I absolutely CANNOT sleep in such weather.  Not that I can sleep much now due to itching, but add sweating to that it would be constant torture with no sleep whatsoever.

Up here on the Last Great Frontier, this is currently not an issue.  Nighttime temps never go above around 60, even in mid summer.  But once down in the lower 48, heat inside a small space like a van can be a real problem when parked for the night.  Unless you run the engine to power the car air conditioner, you are basically slow roasting inside a metal oven.

The current unit I am looking at is this one, smallest on the market I can find:


It's $229 from Wally World and good for rooms up to 150 sq ft.  6000BTU.   The interior of a van though is just around 70 sq ft maybe, plus you don't have the 8' of ceiling height in a typical bedroom.  So this unit should turn the interior of the van into a refrigerator.  I can vent it through one of the rear windows with the supplied vent hose.

The issue of course is that you need a source of A/C where you are parked, so you can't just use any old free parking lot on those hot nights.  I'll need to park in an official campsite that has electricity and water hookups, though no need for a sewer hookup.  These sites go anywhere from $20-30 a night.  This is within budget however for me.  Advantage beyond this is with the electric hookup I can do all my cooking via electric also, no propane necessary so savings there.  Probably only have to use these sites for about 3-4 months of the year in the warmer climates in the south.  Sometimes also you can scarf up free electricity from outdoor outlets.  When you park at a friends place, you can easily run an extension cord to scarf up his juice.  You won't use much, a couple $2 a day maybe, so you buy him a nice bottle of Scotch to thank him.

I already have the electric oil filled space heater for the SV for cold nights.  That's more critical around here.

RE
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Offline Surly1

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Re: The Psychology of Modern Leftism
« Reply #65 on: June 17, 2017, 10:47:23 AM »
Fortunate for us that RE is a misanthrope with no other hobbies aside from seeking competent medical care.

I dispute that assertion.  I do have other hobbies.


1- I also seek competent Legal assistance.

2- I also write. ( a LOT)

3- I also Smoke & Drink (a LOT)

4- I also brainstorm how to get SUN off the ground on a Shoestring budget.

5- I also annoy my friends (all the time)

6-  I also cook great meals and then throw most of it to the local scavengers.  The crows around my digs eat GREAT!

7-  I also collect great computer and electronic toys.

I also am NOT a misanthrope.  I only HATE stupid people.  Not all people.  It is not my fault most people are stupid.

It is very unfair of you to characterize me as a narrowly focused misanthrope and not acknowledge the vast scope of my interests and hobbies.

RE

8. Debating   :)

Oh yea.  I forgot that one.  I also still play Chess against the computer once in a while, but I put it at a setting low enough I have at least a CHANCE of winning, which these days has dropped to about a 2.  ::)

RE

 ;D ;D ;D
Just caught up with this. Point made and taken.
"...reprehensible lying communist..."

 

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