Doomstead Diner Newz Channels => Cyber Security => Topic started by: Palloy on November 28, 2016, 02:39:05 PM

Title: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on November 28, 2016, 02:39:05 PM
"Fake Newz"

Fake News is news that has been made up and is completely untrue.  It is a waste of everybody's time, made worse by the mindless idiots on Facebook and Twitter, who spread it without thinking.

So some professor from a US university posted a list of "Fake News" websites on Facebook, but those on the list were mostly just anti-establishment websites, giving alternative viewpoints, not fake news. Prominent among the mistakes was RT (https://rt.com) , (formerly Russia Today), which is financed by the Russian State, and a genuine news site.  RT is comparable to the British BBC and Australian ABC news outlets, except that the latter wouldn't say "Boo" to their Prime Ministers, let alone the US President or Rupert Murdoch. 

RT.com

It has to be admitted that RT likes to publish all the things that the US Government would be embarrassed about, but that is what the US media ought to be doing as part of their job too, but don't.  RT also publishes what President Putin and Foreign Minister Lavrov are saying about world affairs, including the context and background of their statements, which is important to know if you want to express an informed opinion on world affairs.

Thus if you want to get a balanced outlook on current events, and only have time for 2 sites, then CNN and RT should be your first two choices.  They won't be the same, obviously, because they represent the two sides of the argument.

So naturally some of the genuine, but anti-establishment news sites also the on the list, objected.  The financial news site ZeroHedge was one of them.  They follow the Austrian School viewpoint on finance, as opposed to the Keynesian viewpoint, and are hence always anti-Federal Reserve, and pro-"a huge economic collapse is coming"and pro-Gold Standard. You don't have to be an Austrian economist to read ZeroHedge (I'm not one) because they do manage to dig up amazing facts and charts from official sources.  ZH heaped scorn and derision on the list, which presumably caused a twitter-storm amongst the shouting classes.

And thus a new meme was born - "Fake News" is no longer fake news, but anything that doesn't follow the US establishment line.

The list was quickly taken up by the Washington Post, that cheer-leader for the wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria.  Remember the WMDs in Iraq, which were ever found ?  Who grilled Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Powell over that big lie, either before or after the invasion? - not WaPo, that's for sure.

PropOrNot

WaPo cites the origin of the list as the website called propornot.com, which has been hosted by GoDaddy since 21 August, and uses free BlogSpot blogging software, and doesn't give the names of any of the people involved.  You will find this on their Home Page:

Quote
http://www.propornot.com/p/home.html
We call on Congressional leadership, and the Obama administration, to:

    Immediately begin investigations to determine whether any U.S. government action or inaction has allowed Russia to manipulate the US domestic political process, and interfere in the 2016 election, through online propaganda.

    Immediately begin investigations to determine whether, by action or inaction, the American public has been deprived of related information that they need to vote in an informed manner.

    Work with our European allies to disconnect Russia from the SWIFT financial transaction system, effective immediately and lasting for at least one year, as an appropriate response to Russian manipulation of the election.

The first two points are silly, but understandable - "begin investigations" into blah blah blah, OK.  But the third is an immediate punishment for a guilty Russia.  Huh?  Aren't we going to await the outcome of the investigation before proceeding to punishment?  You know, "Innocent until proven guilty" and all that?  That's a bit like President Obama saying Osama bin Laden got "justice", when in fact he was simply assassinated and his body disappeared, which WaPO reported on but didn't question.

SWIFT

If you haven't heard of it before, SWIFT is an internet system which allows banks in different countries to exchange the necessary paperwork before and after the actual transfer of big sums of money, over secure channels.  The threat of being excluded from SWIFT, and hence being internationally isolated, is a very big stick indeed, and would likely lead to the instant start of WW3. 

At least, it would have if the Russians hadn't already written and implemented their own version of SWIFT, known as RosSwift.  It has been up and running for over a year, catering for Russian-to-Russian bank transactions, hence relieving Russia from having to worry about having their national inter-bank transactions being monitored by the US.  All it would take for it to become internationally operational would be the issuing of log-in credentials for RosSwift to foreign banks.  Presumably the Russians have decided, for now, not to split the world into 2 competing financial blocs, but they ready for it.

A moment's consideration should be enough for you to realise that the rest of the BRICS group, China, India, Brazil and South Africa would immediately join RosSwift, as would the CSO countries, Belarus, Armenia, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, and Kyrgyzstan, and other assorted hangers on like Syria, Iran, Philippines, Cuba, Venezuela - well over half the world's population.  The US couldn't sanction them all, so it would have to live with it.

Then you've got the problem of how the EU countries and Turkey are going to pay for their Russian oil and gas imports, unless they join RosSwift too.  And very soon you will see that cutting Russia off from SWIFT would be a HUGE mistake with endless blowback for the US, and that PropOrNot must be a complete bunch of idiots.

How do PropOrNot identify "Russian propaganda"?

There is a long list of ways that PropOrNot says it can tell if a website is a Russian propaganda site.  This one is quite instructive:

Quote
http://www.propornot.com/2016/10/introducing-propornot-be-aware-of-and.html

16. Appear to be effectively influencing public opinion in significant and very problematic ways, by promoting:
    Conspiracy theories about and protests against US military exercises,
    Isolationism/anti-interventionism generally,
    Support for policies like Brexit, and the breakup of the EU and Eurozone,
    Opposition to Ukrainian resistance to Russia and Syrian resistance to Assad,
    Support for the anti-vax, anti-Zika spraying, anti-GMO, 9/11-”truther”, gold-standard, and other related movements
   
Yes, if you believe in a peaceful non-interventionist US foreign policy, or supported Brexit like a majority of British voters did, or support a return to the gold standard, or are against Genetically Modified Organisms, you are a Russian propagandist !

The question is ...

Getting back to WaPo, why would a news organisation with such an impeccable reputation for good journalism, choose to pick up this story from an anonymous bunch of idiots with a $10 web-site?  Perhaps because they are not a bunch of idiots at all, but a secretive cabal of war-crazed neo-cons, and WaPo have been given the establishment nod of approval to promote them. 

The implications of all this is that if a site regularly publishes articles which question US policy on its interventionist stance towards countries it doesn't like, or on going back to the gold standard, or on Brexit and the break-up of the EU, (all of which are common themes here on Doomstead Diner), then it could be branded a Russian propaganda outlet and some kind of sanctions applied against it.  This could involve lowering its ranking or removing it altogether from Google search results, and Facebook/Twitter news feed rankings, to outright closure.  Facebook has already announced that it is looking at modifying its news filters to try harder to eliminate fake news.

This is a very serious development for all people with alternative views to the US establishment.

The List

And finally, here is the list.  How many of these sites do you want to hear from as part of your political discussion?

(https://doomsteaddiner.net/palloy/images/the.list.jpg)
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on November 29, 2016, 12:03:41 AM
Here is a good example of RT reporting, basically an interview with a UK Tory MP with a Polish background, who disagrees with the antagonistic approach being taken by Hilary Clinton and the UK Defence Minister Michael Fallon, versus Donald Trump and current French presidential front-runner Francois Fillon.   If it is self-serving of Russia for RT to publish this (and it obviously is), then it follows that Russia wants to lower tensions, while the US and UK want to raise them.  Littered with links to further reading.

https://www.rt.com/uk/368508-russia-fallon-nato-bridge/ (https://www.rt.com/uk/368508-russia-fallon-nato-bridge/)
NATO should be acting as a bridge between Baltics & Russia, defuse tension – UK Tory MP
29 Nov, 2016

The West should treat Russia as an equal partner and do more to alleviate tensions between Moscow and some NATO members, in particular Poland and the Baltics, by dispelling fears about Russia’s alleged intentions, Tory MP Daniel Kawczynski, told RT.

READ MORE: Trump must stand up to Russia, not treat it as equal – UK defense secretary

“It suits neither us, nor the Russians to have this level of tension,” Kawczynski told RT. “Of course, it [Russia] is an equal partner, it is an equal partner within the UN Security Council, we must treat them as an equal partner.”

Read more - 11 NATO states take part in massive ‘Iron Sword’ drills in Lithuania

One of the major ways in which NATO countries can contribute to reducing tensions on the European continent, is to help dispel concerns of former Warsaw pact countries about Moscow’s intentions.   

“We should acknowledge and understand and respect that there’s tension in the Baltic States and in Poland, they are small countries, they neighbor Russia, they are to a certain degree fearful of Russia and fearful of Russian motives,” Kawczynski, who is himself of Polish origin, said.

While Kawczynski says these concerns should not be “brushed under the carpet” and must be dealt with, he believes the West should take on the role of mediator.

READ MORE: NATO builds up offensive capability on borders of Russia & Belarus, Moscow to respond – MoD

“We want to be acting as a bridge between those countries and Russia to try to diffuse some of these concerns,” the MP said, adding that, “historically,” the West has done little to “make them feel less concerned about Russian motives.”

Kawczynski argued that one of the reasons US President-elect Donald Trump attracted both Republican and Democrat voters was his readiness to “go an extra mile to negotiate with Russia and to try to lower the extraordinary levels of tension that has been building up between Russian and NATO.” At the same time, Clinton’s “highly antagonistic approach” towards Moscow during the campaign might have spooked voters, he said.

READ MORE: NATO chief urges EU to increase military budgets to maintain bond with US under Trump

The MP pointed out that the West’s attitude towards Russia could shift dramatically in the near future, as not only is US foreign policy under Trump expected to exhibit a more constructive approach, but France could soon follow suit. The current presidential front-runner Francois Fillon, who won conservative primaries this week, is keen on restoring ties with Russia if elected.

The UK, as well as NATO as a whole, should join efforts to “go an extra mile, to try to engage with Russia,” Kawczynski said.
‘London struggles to adjust to new reality’

Jerald Horne, author and historian, told RT that UK Defence Secretary Michael Fallon’s advice to Trump, urging him to stand up to Russia and not regard Moscow as an equal partner, will likely fall on deaf ears, as the once-celebrated “special relationship” between the two countries has been suffering because of London’s increasing self-isolation.

Read more - British Defence Secretary Michael Fallon.  NATO war with Russia ‘not likely’ in 2017, UK Defence Secretary says

“It would be very difficult to listen to Fallon’s advice for American administration,” Horne said, adding that, after opting to leave the EU, Britain “is increasingly feeling isolated and the pressure might be getting to the officials,” such as Fallon.

On the other hand, the American people may have chosen Trump as President as a consequence of their weariness with the “military misadventures” of the US and UK in Iraq and Afghanistan, with the latter “unfolding disastrously” at the moment, he said.

Horne argues that the US election result is “reflection of revulsion of American people at these military catastrophes,” while noting that the UK's government does not seem ready to review its foreign policy in the post-Brexit world, still counting on the fading “special relations” between Washington and London that are currently “under strain.”

READ MORE: French people sacrifice their own interests to help Putin win the world? (OP-ED)

“He [Fallon] is still living in the past, he is living in the realm, where there were so-called special relationships between London and Washington but that realm is dissolving as we speak and London needs to adjust accordingly,” Horne said, predicting an “agonizing reappraisal” in foreign policies.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: RE on November 29, 2016, 12:16:09 AM
"Fake Newz"


The Diner didn't make the list!  :(

Did you write this article?  If so, it goes up on the blog.

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on November 29, 2016, 12:31:31 AM
Quote
Did you write this article?

Yes.   :hello:

Can't resist another RT example as it highlights that even an undeveloped country, under sanction for 50 years, can have free education and health service.

https://www.rt.com/uk/368429-may-corbyn-castro-funeral/ (https://www.rt.com/uk/368429-may-corbyn-castro-funeral/)
No amigos? Theresa May snubs Castro funeral, but Corbyn's going
28 Nov, 2016

Senior members of the British government will apparently snub the funeral of Cuban revolutionary leader Fidel Castro. Prime Minister Theresa May failed even to issue a statement on Castro’s death over the weekend.

Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn meanwhile confirmed he will be attending the funeral, which will take place on December 4.

Senior figures in most Western governments are not expected to travel to Havana, including British Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson, who will send Foreign Office minister Alan Duncan instead. PM May is yet to comment on Castro’s death.

Corbyn’s recognition of the former Cuban president follows Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams’ own intent to fly over for the funeral. Adams tweeted on Monday he is “heading [for] Havana.”

Corbyn described Castro as a “huge figure of modern history, national independence and 20th Century socialism.”

“From building a world-class health and education system, to Cuba’s record of international solidarity abroad, Castro’s achievements were many,” he added.

“For all his flaws, Castro’s support for Angola played a crucial role in bringing an end to apartheid in South Africa and he will be remembered both as an internationalist and a champion of social justice.”

    Heading 4 Havana. pic.twitter.com/FdBw71TyZ2
    — Gerry Adams (@GerryAdamsSF) November 28, 2016

His words were scoffed at by the national press, which called Corbyn an “ultra left-winger” and predicted his approval ratings would go “down yet another notch” if he attends the funeral.

Labour Shadow Foreign Secretary Emily Thornberry came to Corbyn’s defense, suggesting that although Castro was a “hugely divisive figure,” Cuba sets an example for health services worldwide.

“I went to Cuba in the early 1990s when there was great economic difficulties in that country,” Thornberry said on the BBC Andrew Marr Show on Sunday.

“I found a country that was egalitarian with a fantastic health service, I had my baby with me, we had to go off and see the doctor and we were really struck by it.”

She insisted that Corbyn had “tried to put forward both sides.” Cuba, she said, is “a brave island that stood against a regime that for 50 years would not trade with it and would not let other countries trade with it too.

“Not only did they stand firm and strong they also exported their values across South America and into Africa, producing doctors and nurses and teachers.”

    Labour insist no decision taken yet on whether Jeremy Corbyn will attend Castro's funeral. "No invitation has even been received yet".
    — Kevin Schofield (@PolhomeEditor) November 28, 2016

In the US, President Barack Obama and Secretary of State John Kerry have been told not to visit Cuba for the occasion. Former House of Representatives Speaker Newt Gingrich said “under no circumstance” should they go to Havana.

Senator and former presidential hopeful Marco Rubio echoed the sentiment, saying: “I would hope that [the Obama administration] would send no one to the funeral.”

Castro, who died in the early hours of Saturday November 26, was cremated the following day. His remains will lie in state on Monday and Tuesday before they are taken along the 900km route to Santiago de Cuba – the reverse journey of that once made by the ‘Caravan of Freedom’ Castro led in 1959 during the Cuban Revolution.

His ashes will be placed in a cemetery in Santiago de Cuba on December 4.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: RE on November 29, 2016, 12:59:23 AM
Quote
Did you write this article?

Yes.   :hello:

I shall do a blog transfer.  :icon_sunny:

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on November 29, 2016, 07:44:26 PM
"Legacy Media" - I like that.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/washington-post-blacklist-story-is-shameful-disgusting-w452543 (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/washington-post-blacklist-story-is-shameful-disgusting-w452543)
The 'Washington Post' 'Blacklist' Story Is Shameful and Disgusting
By Matt Taibbi
28 Nov 2016

The capital's paper of record crashes legacy media on an iceberg

Last week, a technology reporter for the Washington Post named Craig Timberg ran an incredible story. It has no analog that I can think of in modern times. Headlined "Russian propaganda effort helped spread 'fake news' during election, experts say," the piece promotes the work of a shadowy group that smears some 200 alternative news outlets as either knowing or unwitting agents of a foreign power, including popular sites like Truthdig and Naked Capitalism.

The thrust of Timberg's astonishingly lazy report is that a Russian intelligence operation of some kind was behind the publication of a "hurricane" of false news reports during the election season, in particular stories harmful to Hillary Clinton. The piece referenced those 200 websites as "routine peddlers of Russian propaganda."

The piece relied on what it claimed were "two teams of independent researchers," but the citing of a report by the longtime anticommunist Foreign Policy Research Institute was really window dressing.

The meat of the story relied on a report by unnamed analysts from a single mysterious "organization" called PropOrNot – we don't know if it's one person or, as it claims, over 30 – a "group" that seems to have been in existence for just a few months.

It was PropOrNot's report that identified what it calls "the list" of 200 offending sites. Outlets as diverse as AntiWar.com, LewRockwell.com and the Ron Paul Institute were described as either knowingly directed by Russian intelligence, or "useful idiots" who unwittingly did the bidding of foreign masters.

Forget that the Post offered no information about the "PropOrNot" group beyond that they were "a collection of researchers with foreign policy, military and technology backgrounds."

Forget also that the group offered zero concrete evidence of coordination with Russian intelligence agencies, even offering this remarkable disclaimer about its analytic methods:

"Please note that our criteria are behavioral. ... For purposes of this definition it does not matter ... whether they even knew they were echoing Russian propaganda at any particular point: If they meet these criteria, they are at the very least acting as bona-fide 'useful idiots' of the Russian intelligence services, and are worthy of further scrutiny."

What this apparently means is that if you published material that meets their definition of being "useful" to the Russian state, you could be put on the "list," and "warrant further scrutiny."

Forget even that in its Twitter responses to criticism of its report, PropOrNot sounded not like a group of sophisticated military analysts, but like one teenager:

"Awww, wook at all the angwy Putinists, trying to change the subject - they're so vewwy angwy!!" it wrote on Saturday.

"Fascists. Straight up muthafuckin' fascists. That's what we're up against," it wrote last Tuesday, two days before Timberg's report.

Any halfway decent editor would have been scared to death by any of these factors. Moreover the vast majority of reporters would have needed to see something a lot more concrete than a half-assed theoretical paper from such a dicey source before denouncing 200 news organizations as traitors.

But if that same source also demanded anonymity on the preposterous grounds that it feared being "targeted by Russia's legions of skilled hackers"? Any sane reporter would have booted them out the door. You want to blacklist hundreds of people, but you won't put your name to your claims? Take a hike.

Yet the Post thought otherwise, and its report was uncritically picked up by other outlets like USA Today and the Daily Beast. The "Russians did it" story was greedily devoured by a growing segment of blue-state America that is beginning to fall victim to the same conspiracist tendencies that became epidemic on the political right in the last few years.

The right-wing fascination with conspiracy has culminated in a situation where someone like Alex Jones of Infowars (who believes juice boxes make frogs gay) is considered a news source. Jones is believed even by our new president-elect, who just repeated one of his outrageous reports, to the effect that three million undocumented immigrants voted in the November 8th election.

That Jones report was based on a tweet by someone named Greg Phillips of an organization called VoteStand.

When asked to comment on his methodology, Phillips replied in the first person plural, sounding like a lone spree killer claiming to be a national terror network. "No. We will release it in open form to the American people," he said. "We won't allow the media to spin this first. Sorry."

This was remarkably similar to the response of PropOrNot when asked by The Intercept to comment about its "list" report. The only difference was, Phillips didn't use emoticons:

"We're getting a lot of requests for comment and can get back to you today =)" PropOrNot told The Intercept. "We're over 30 people, organized into teams, and we cannot confirm or deny anyone's involvement."

"They" never called The Intercept back.

Most high school papers wouldn't touch sources like these. But in November 2016, both the president-elect of the United States and the Washington Post are equally at ease with this sort of sourcing.

Even worse, the Post apparently never contacted any of the outlets on the "list" before they ran their story. Yves Smith at Naked Capitalism says she was never contacted. Chris Hedges of Truthdig, who was part of a group that won the Pulitzer Prize for The New York Times once upon a time, said the same. "We were named," he tells me. "I was not contacted."

Hedges says the Post piece was an "updated form of Red-Baiting."

"This attack signals an open war on the independent press," he says. "Those who do not spew the official line will be increasingly demonized in corporate echo chambers such as the Post or CNN as useful idiots or fifth columnists."

All of this is an outgrowth of this horrible election season we just lived through.

A lot of reporters over the summer were so scared by the prospect of a Trump presidency that they talked – in some cases publicly – about abandoning traditional ideas about journalistic "distance" from politicians, in favor of open advocacy for the Clinton campaign. "Trump is testing the norms of objectivity in journalism," is how The Times put it.

These journalists seemed totally indifferent to the Pandora's box they were opening. They didn't understand that most politicians have no use for critical media. Many of them don't see alternative points of view as healthy or even legitimate. If you polled a hundred politicians about the profession, 99 would say that all reporters are obstructionist scum whose removal from the planet would be a boon to society.

The only time politicians like the media is when we're helping them get elected or push through certain policies, like for instance helping spread dubious stories about Iraq's WMD capability. Otherwise, they despise us. So news outlets that get into bed with politicians are usually making a devil's bargain they don't fully understand.

They may think they're being patriotic (as many did during the Iraq/WMD episode), but in the end what will happen is that they will adopt the point of view of their political sponsors. They will soon enough denounce other reporters and begin to see themselves as part of the power structure, as opposed to a check on it.

This is the ultimate in stupidity and self-annihilating behavior. The power of the press comes from its independence from politicians. Jump into bed with them and you not only won't ever be able to get out, but you'll win nothing but a loss of real influence and the undying loathing of audiences.

Helping Beltway politicos mass-label a huge portion of dissenting media as "useful idiots" for foreign enemies in this sense is an extraordinarily self-destructive act. Maybe the Post doesn't care and thinks it's doing the right thing. In that case, at least do the damn work.


       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: RE on November 29, 2016, 08:05:53 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/GOtzgv5ZsHg
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on November 29, 2016, 09:15:23 PM
Matt Taibbi's blog site seems to be http://smirkingchimp.com (http://smirkingchimp.com) , although it hosts many other blogs as well.  All of them are up in arms against WaPo for its blacklist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Front#Reception (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Front#Reception)
Springer Link criticized South Front for not publishing content critical of the Russian government.[15] They even stated that "[it] portrays itself as being a crowdsourced project, but it looks more like a professional info-war project run or backed by the Russian military."[16] South Front also published conspiracy theories without vetting, such as when they publish Alex Jones articles on Hillary Clinton.[17].
=====

Springer Link is part of the Springer publishing group, which publishes a lot of scientific journals and holds copyright to many of the papers.  This makes it one of the "big data" crowd and the opposite of Open Source.  Springer Link has software for paying clients to scan this database and spot trends within it and other associations.

It sounds like the sort of technology that has been used by PropOrNot to produce The List.

Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: K-Dog on November 29, 2016, 09:53:32 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/GOtzgv5ZsHg

Quote
Fake News? 

Hello everyone,

I rarely send out emails on topical issues but decided to make an exception in this case. 

There is a bizarre Orwellian effort underway by old media outlets like The Washington Post -- organizations that have consistently promoted disinformation and propaganda virtually from the time of their founding -- to label independent alternative media "fake news."   They are working in concert with tech giants and social media outlets like Google, Facebook and Twitter.    Frankly it all seems rather desperate.   
There is even a strange and plainly ridiculous neo-McCarthyite co-strategy involved.   Evidently it is designed to tie dissidents in the United States to Russia and Vladimir Putin.   This is strongly reminiscent of previous efforts to portray leftists in eg Guatemala or Nicaragua of being Soviet spies, or indeed MLK and the "New Left" of being stooges for the Soviet Union.  Adding to the surreality of the whole affair, these accusations are being leveled at the far right as well as the left and independent researchers.   

Anyone who has followed these issues closely already knows that these media corporations, owned by a handful of billionaires and closely linked to the "intelligence community," have censored content from their users.   It appears that this pattern of deception is about to get much, much worse.   

If anyone has any doubt about the propagandistic nature of corporate media they may wish to view my films Psywar and The Power Principle II: Propaganda.    The sub-header to Psywar is "The real battlefield is the mind."   I meant that quite literally.    This shouldn't even be controversial outside of grade school.   Whether it was "Remember the Main!", Gulf of Tonkin, WMD's or "Israel did nothing wrong!", the corporate media consists mostly of whimpering sycophants who serve power, not truth.   

Here: Bloomberg news, owned by NY billionaire Michael Bloomberg, crusher of Occupy Wall Street, claims that Mark Zuckerberg's new "truth police" will determine what is suitable "news" for the American people.   Say what? 

A "blacklist" has been created of "fake news" websites.  The list includes dubious click-bait websites and promoters of disinformation, bigotry and general quackery.   However it also includes media orgs of an anarchist bent; "deep politics" websites; and leftist websites that remain independent of the Democratic Party establishment.   

Some of the blacklisted sites have promoted my own work, including Films For Action, Counterpunch, Information Clearing House, Global Research, Black Agenda Report, Paul Craig Roberts and the Corbett Report. 

It is my hope that this rather lame attempt at Orwellian mind control backfires a la "The Streisand Effect," described as a "phenomenon whereby an attempt to hide, remove, or censor a piece of information has the unintended consequence of publicizing the information more widely, usually facilitated by the Internet."

Many of the blacklisted websites are indeed garbage.   But many are jewels in the rough and frankly superior to much of what passes for "journalism" in the 21st century.     

According to a Gallup poll conducted in September, Americans' trust in corporate media is at an all time low.   Perhaps this is an opportunity to turn the tables.   I signed up for Twitter last year but have since abandoned the platform.   Unless you're very pithy indeed, Twitter is mostly trash.  Alternatives to Google are available.   Facebook is useless and potentially very harmful.   If you want your friends to know what music and movies you like just tell them.   

The UK government has announced that it will make people's entire Internet history available to police and other authorities -- minus politicians, of course.   This is horrifying.   Along with the obvious chilling effect for free speech, and the ability to compile "lists" of a much more sinister nature than alleged "fake news" websites, the possibilities for blackmail are endless.   What is to stop them from actually faking a person's internet history? 

Ordinarily I would suggest using TOR or a VPN, but I'm not convinced that there aren't honeypots in some anonymizing services as well; I mean, it would make sense.   I would at least hope that people recognize the danger of self-censorship when it comes to political affairs.   I explored this topic when I covered the NSA in part I of "Counter-Intelligence" and compared mass surveillance to the Panopticon prison model developed by Jeremy Bentham in the 18th century.  The ideal slave is someone who polices themselves and does not require coercion by authorities. 

Ideally, someone will leak the Internet history of every British politician who authorized this travesty.    Other, even more creative counter-intelligence strategies should and presumably will be developed by freedom loving hackers.   

Some of you have emailed me asking what I think of the American Presidential election.   I have been reminded of Frank Zappa's quote that "Government is the entertainment division of the military industrial complex."     If the degenerates Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are the best the ruling class can offer, then it's clearly time for restart aka a revolution.       

Speaking of independent news sites, Socialist Worker has reviewed Part II of my "Plutocracy" series.    It is mostly positive and a pretty good recounting of the film's contents.   There is some criticism toward the end that the film is less cohesive than part I, which I suppose is fair.   As the reviewer herself acknowledges, the "progressive era" was one of the most complicated affairs in American history.   Although a strictly linear approach may have been more superficially "cohesive" it would have been less enlightening, since the seminal events in American history relating to mechanization and de-skilling; sexual, ethnic and racial conflict; voting rights; labor unions etc. were not strictly chronological. 

Ultimately I would like to go all the way up to the present day.   Since I have no funders except my supporters I have no need to pull any punches on any particular issue, no matter how controversial.   Just the facts ma'am. 

Thank you to everyone who donated to the fundraiser and thank you to everyone supporting me via Patreon.   I hope to have the next installment online in about four months.  It will cover roughly 1912 to Back Tuesday and will be titled Plutocracy III: Class War. 

 
Scott Noble

Patreon  Hmmmmmmmmmmm; perhaps money is laundered?  I'm a fan of Scott.  My question was prompted because I was thinking of someone else who gets a Patreon check.  Someone who I actually suspect has a homeland security Patreon donor.  Certainly not Scott.  Scott sees the current incantation of American government as fascist.  Scott gets no check.  Scott gets watched.

Without further delay:

The List!

activistpost.com
newcoldwar.org
4threvolutionarywar.wordpress.com
newstarget.com
.
.
.
.
.

nakedcapitalism.com
www.fort-russ.com (http://www.fort-russ.com)
naturalblaze.com
yournewswire.com
naturalnews.com
zerohedge.com

You really don't want to see the whole thing and Palloy has it above.  There is some very good stuff in this list besides what we already know very well.  I scanned some good prepper articles a few days ago from it.  I'm going to put this list up as linkable menu tabs on http://chasingthesquirrel.com (http://chasingthesquirrel.com). 
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: RE on November 29, 2016, 10:10:21 PM

There is some very good stuff in this list besides what we already know very well.  I scanned some good prepper articles.  I'm going to put this list up as linkable menu tabs on http://chasingthesquirrel.com (http://chasingthesquirrel.com).

Let me know when you have all the Links connected.  I'll put it up as a Page on the Diner, and also on the collapse.global Portal.

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: K-Dog on November 29, 2016, 11:24:53 PM

There is some very good stuff in this list besides what we already know very well.  I scanned some good prepper articles.  I'm going to put this list up as linkable menu tabs on http://chasingthesquirrel.com (http://chasingthesquirrel.com).

Let me know when you have all the Links connected.  I'll put it up as a Page on the Diner, and also on the collapse.global Portal.

RE

Will Do  !


Progress report:

It is a big list and it is going to take a while.  The first hundred links are up.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on November 30, 2016, 12:00:53 AM
Have done:
attached is a .htm file which you can drop directly into a webpage,
and this is the bbcode version:

http://4threvolutionarywar.wordpress.com (http://4threvolutionarywar.wordpress.com)
http://aanirfan.blogspot.co.uk (http://aanirfan.blogspot.co.uk)
http://abeldanger.net (http://abeldanger.net)
http://abovetopsecret.com (http://abovetopsecret.com)
http://activistpost.com (http://activistpost.com)
http://ahtribune.com (http://ahtribune.com)
http://allnewspipeline.com (http://allnewspipeline.com)
http://americanlookout.com (http://americanlookout.com)
http://americasfreedomfighters.com (http://americasfreedomfighters.com)
http://amren.com (http://amren.com)
http://amtvmedia.com (http://amtvmedia.com)
http://ancient-code.com (http://ancient-code.com)
http://anonews.co (http://anonews.co)
http://anonhq.com (http://anonhq.com)
http://antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)
http://asia-pacificresearch.com (http://asia-pacificresearch.com)
http://assassinationscience.com (http://assassinationscience.com)
http://baltimoregazette.com (http://baltimoregazette.com)
http://barenakedislam.com (http://barenakedislam.com)
http://beforeitsnews.com (http://beforeitsnews.com)
http://bignuggetnews.com (http://bignuggetnews.com)
http://blackagendareport.com (http://blackagendareport.com)
http://blacklistednews.com (http://blacklistednews.com)
http://christianfightback.com (http://christianfightback.com)
http://collective-evolution.com (http://collective-evolution.com)
http://conservativedailypost.com (http://conservativedailypost.com)
http://consortiumnews.com (http://consortiumnews.com)
http://corbettreport.com (http://corbettreport.com)
http://cosmicscientist.com (http://cosmicscientist.com)
http://countercurrents.org (http://countercurrents.org)
http://counterinformation.wordpress.com (http://counterinformation.wordpress.com)
http://counterpunch.org (http://counterpunch.org)
http://dailyoccupation.com (http://dailyoccupation.com)
http://dailystormer.com (http://dailystormer.com)
http://darkmoon.me (http://darkmoon.me)
http://darkpolitricks.com (http://darkpolitricks.com)
http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com (http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com)
http://dcclothesline.com (http://dcclothesline.com)
http://dcleaks.com (http://dcleaks.com)
http://defenddemocracy.press (http://defenddemocracy.press)
http://dennismichaellynch.com (http://dennismichaellynch.com)
http://disclose.tv (http://disclose.tv)
http://disclosuremedia.net (http://disclosuremedia.net)
http://drudgereport.com (http://drudgereport.com)
http://educate-yourself.org (http://educate-yourself.org)
http://educateinspirechange.org (http://educateinspirechange.org)
http://endingthefed.com (http://endingthefed.com)
http://endoftheamericandream.com (http://endoftheamericandream.com)
http://endtime.com (http://endtime.com)
http://eutimes.net (http://eutimes.net)
http://eutopia.buzz (http://eutopia.buzz)
http://ewao.com (http://ewao.com)
http://eyeopening.info (http://eyeopening.info)
http://fellowshipoftheminds.com (http://fellowshipoftheminds.com)
http://filmsforaction.org (http://filmsforaction.org)
http://floridasunpost.com (http://floridasunpost.com)
http://foreignpolicyjournal.com (http://foreignpolicyjournal.com)
http://fourwinds10.net (http://fourwinds10.net)
http://freedomoutpost.com (http://freedomoutpost.com)
http://gaia.com (http://gaia.com)
http://galacticconnection.com (http://galacticconnection.com)
http://gangstergovernment.com (http://gangstergovernment.com)
http://gatesofvienna.net (http://gatesofvienna.net)
http://geopolmonitor.com (http://geopolmonitor.com)
http://globalresearch.ca (http://globalresearch.ca)
http://godlikeproductions.com (http://godlikeproductions.com)
http://govtslaves.info (http://govtslaves.info)
http://greanvillepost.com (http://greanvillepost.com)
http://guccifer2.wordpress.com (http://guccifer2.wordpress.com)
http://hangthebankers.com (http://hangthebankers.com)
http://healthnutnews.com (http://healthnutnews.com)
http://henrymakow.com (http://henrymakow.com)
http://heresyblog.net (http://heresyblog.net)
http://humansarefree.com (http://humansarefree.com)
http://ihavethetruth.com (http://ihavethetruth.com)
http://ihavethetruth.com (http://ihavethetruth.com)
http://in5d.com (http://in5d.com)
http://informationclearinghouse.info (http://informationclearinghouse.info)
http://infowars.com (http://infowars.com)
http://intellihub.com (http://intellihub.com)
http://intrepidreport.com (http://intrepidreport.com)
http://investmentresearchdynamics.com (http://investmentresearchdynamics.com)
http://investmentwatchblog.com (http://investmentwatchblog.com)
http://jackpineradicals.com (http://jackpineradicals.com)
http://jamesrgrangerjr.com (http://jamesrgrangerjr.com)
http://jewsnews.co.il (http://jewsnews.co.il)
http://journal-neo.org (http://journal-neo.org)
http://katehon.com (http://katehon.com)
http://katehon.org (http://katehon.org)
http://kingworldnews.com (http://kingworldnews.com)
http://lewrockwell.com (http://lewrockwell.com)
http://libertyblitzkrieg.com (http://libertyblitzkrieg.com)
http://libertywritersnews.com (http://libertywritersnews.com)
http://makeamericagreattoday.com (http://makeamericagreattoday.com)
http://memoryholeblog.com (http://memoryholeblog.com)
http://mintpressnews.com (http://mintpressnews.com)
http://moonofalabama.org (http://moonofalabama.org)
http://nakedcapitalism.com (http://nakedcapitalism.com)
http://naturalblaze.com (http://naturalblaze.com)
http://naturalnews.com (http://naturalnews.com)
http://newcoldwar.org (http://newcoldwar.org)
http://newstarget.com (http://newstarget.com)
http://newswithviews.com (http://newswithviews.com)
http://nowtheendbegins.com (http://nowtheendbegins.com)
http://nutritionfacts.org (http://nutritionfacts.org)
http://off-guardian.org (http://off-guardian.org)
http://oftwominds.com (http://oftwominds.com)
http://oilgeopolitics.net (http://oilgeopolitics.net)
http://opednews.com (http://opednews.com)
http://orientalreview.org (http://orientalreview.org)
http://patriotrising.com (http://patriotrising.com)
http://paulcraigroberts.org (http://paulcraigroberts.org)
http://platosguns.com (http://platosguns.com)
http://pravda.ru (http://pravda.ru)
http://pravdareport.com (http://pravdareport.com)
http://prepperwebsite.com (http://prepperwebsite.com)
http://prisonplanet.com (http://prisonplanet.com)
http://rbth.com (http://rbth.com)
http://readynutrition.com (http://readynutrition.com)
http://redflagnews.com (http://redflagnews.com)
http://regated.com (http://regated.com)
http://rense.com (http://rense.com)
http://righton.com (http://righton.com)
http://rinf.com (http://rinf.com)
http://ronpaulinstitute.org (http://ronpaulinstitute.org)
http://rt.com (http://rt.com)
http://rumormillnews.com (http://rumormillnews.com)
http://ruptly.tv (http://ruptly.tv)
http://russia-direct.org (http://russia-direct.org)
http://russia-insider.com (http://russia-insider.com)
http://sentinelblog.com (http://sentinelblog.com)
http://sgtreport.com (http://sgtreport.com)
http://shiftfrequency.com (http://shiftfrequency.com)
http://shtfplan.com (http://shtfplan.com)
http://silentmajoritypatriots.com (http://silentmajoritypatriots.com)
http://silverdoctors.com (http://silverdoctors.com)
http://sott.net (http://sott.net)
http://southfront.org (http://southfront.org)
http://sputniknews.com (http://sputniknews.com)
http://stormcloudsgathering.com (http://stormcloudsgathering.com)
http://strategic-culture.org (http://strategic-culture.org)
http://superstation95.com (http://superstation95.com)
http://survivopedia.com (http://survivopedia.com)
http://the-newspapers.com (http://the-newspapers.com)
http://theantimedia.org (http://theantimedia.org)
http://thecommonsenseshow.com (http://thecommonsenseshow.com)
http://thedailybell.com (http://thedailybell.com)
http://thedailysheeple.com (http://thedailysheeple.com)
http://theduran.com (http://theduran.com)
http://theearthchild.co.za (http://theearthchild.co.za)
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com (http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com)
http://theeventchronicle.com (http://theeventchronicle.com)
http://thefederalistpapers.org (http://thefederalistpapers.org)
http://thefreethoughtproject.com (http://thefreethoughtproject.com)
http://themindunleashed.org (http://themindunleashed.org)
http://thenewsdoctors.com (http://thenewsdoctors.com)
http://therebel.media (http://therebel.media)
http://therussophile.org (http://therussophile.org)
http://thesaker.is (http://thesaker.is)
http://thesleuthjournal.com (http://thesleuthjournal.com)
http://thetruenews.info (http://thetruenews.info)
http://thetruthseeker.co.uk (http://thetruthseeker.co.uk)
http://thirdworldtraveler.com (http://thirdworldtraveler.com)
http://toprightnews.com (http://toprightnews.com)
http://trueactivist.com (http://trueactivist.com)
http://trunews.com (http://trunews.com)
http://truth-out.org (http://truth-out.org)
http://truthandaction.org (http://truthandaction.org)
http://truthdig.com (http://truthdig.com)
http://truthfeed.com (http://truthfeed.com)
http://truthkings.com (http://truthkings.com)
http://ufoholic.com (http://ufoholic.com)
http://undergroundworldnews.com (http://undergroundworldnews.com)
http://unz.com (http://unz.com)
http://usanewshome.com (http://usanewshome.com)
http://usapoliticsnow.com (http://usapoliticsnow.com)
http://usasupreme.com (http://usasupreme.com)
http://usdcrisis.com (http://usdcrisis.com)
http://usslibertyveterans.org (http://usslibertyveterans.org)
http://vdare.com (http://vdare.com)
http://veteransnewsnow.com (http://veteransnewsnow.com)
http://veteranstoday.com (http://veteranstoday.com)
http://vigilantcitizen.com (http://vigilantcitizen.com)
http://viralliberty.com (http://viralliberty.com)
http://voltairenet.org (http://voltairenet.org)
http://wakeupthesheep.com (http://wakeupthesheep.com)
http://wakingtimes.com (http://wakingtimes.com)
http://washingtonsblog.com (http://washingtonsblog.com)
http://wearechange.org (http://wearechange.org)
http://weshapelife.org (http://weshapelife.org)
http://whatdoesitmean.com (http://whatdoesitmean.com)
http://whatreallyhappened.com (http://whatreallyhappened.com)
http://wikileaks.com (http://wikileaks.com)
http://wikileaks.org (http://wikileaks.org)
http://wikispooks.com (http://wikispooks.com)
http://worldnewspolitics.com (http://worldnewspolitics.com)
http://worldpoliticsus.com (http://worldpoliticsus.com)
http://www.fort-russ.com (http://www.fort-russ.com)
http://yournewswire.com (http://yournewswire.com)
http://zerohedge.com (http://zerohedge.com)
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: RE on November 30, 2016, 12:06:27 AM
Have done:
attached is a .htm file which you can drop directly into a webpage,
and this is the bbcode version:

DoomsteadDiner.net is not in the list!  :(

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on November 30, 2016, 12:13:46 AM
Oops. That .htm was wrong.
New one attached.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: K-Dog on November 30, 2016, 01:13:08 AM
Have done:
attached is a .htm file which you can drop directly into a webpage,
and this is the bbcode version:

DoomsteadDiner.net is not in the list!  :(

RE

It will be, along with others the list missed.  In time I will also eliminate those I don't care for.  Color will also return, but I'm just trying to get it all up first.

http://chasingthesquirrel.com/ (http://chasingthesquirrel.com/)

Palloy, thanks that will help.

Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: azozeo on November 30, 2016, 04:17:39 AM
http://www.youtube.com/v/5ED63A_hcd0&fs=1
Title: Fake Newz/You can get a journalist cheaper than a hooker
Post by: azozeo on November 30, 2016, 04:23:43 AM
In the last month, Obama, Merkel, CNN, the New York Times, Washington Post and many other mainstream media have warned about the dangers of fake news.

There certainly is a lot of fake news.  And some of it is by anti-establishment types trying to discredit American institutions with false reports.

But as we document below – the government and mainstream media are by far the biggest purveyors of fake news.

The Government’s Been Deploying Propaganda On U.S. Soil for Many Years

The United States Senate Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with Respect to Intelligence Activities found in 1975 that the CIA submitted stories to the American press:

    After 1953, the network was overseen by Allen W. Dulles, director of the CIA. By this time, Operation Mockingbird had a major influence over 25 newspapers and wire agencies. The usual methodology was placing reports developed from intelligence provided by the CIA to witting or unwitting reporters. Those reports would then be repeated or cited by the preceding reporters which in turn would then be cited throughout the media wire services.

    The Office of Policy Coordination (OPC) was funded by siphoning off funds intended for the Marshall Plan [i.e. the rebuilding of Europe by the U.S. after WWII]. Some of this money was used to bribe journalists and publishers.

In 2008, the New York Times wrote:

    During the early years of the cold war, [prominent writers and artists, from Arthur Schlesinger Jr. to Jackson Pollock] were supported, sometimes lavishly, always secretly, by the C.I.A. as part of its propaganda war against the Soviet Union. It was perhaps the most successful use of “soft power” in American history.

A CIA operative told Washington Post owner Philip Graham… in a conversation about the willingness of journalists to peddle CIA propaganda and cover stories:

    “You could get a journalist cheaper than a good call girl, for a couple hundred dollars a month.”

Famed Watergate reporter Carl Bernstein wrote in 1977:

    “More than 400 American journalists… in the past twenty‑five years have secretly carried out assignments for the Central Intelligence Agency, according to documents on file at CIA headquarters.”

    ***

    In many instances, CIA documents show, journalists were engaged to perform tasks for the CIA with the consent of the managements of America’s leading news organizations.

    ***

    Among the executives who lent their cooperation to the Agency were [the heads of CBS, Time, the New York Times, the Louisville Courier‑Journal, and Copley News Service. Other organizations which cooperated with the CIA include [ABC, NBC, AP, UPI, Reuters], Hearst Newspapers, Scripps‑Howard, Newsweek magazine, the Mutual Broadcasting System, the Miami Herald and the old Saturday Evening Post and New York Herald‑Tribune.

    ***

    There is ample evidence that America’s leading publishers and news executives allowed themselves and their organizations to become handmaidens to the intelligence services. “Let’s not pick on some poor reporters, for God’s sake,” William Colby exclaimed at one point to the Church committee’s investigators. “Let’s go to the managements.

    ***

    The CIA even ran a formal training program in the 1950s to teach its agents to be journalists. Intelligence officers were “taught to make noises like reporters,” explained a high CIA official, and were then placed in major news organizations with help from management.

    ***

    Once a year during the 1950s and early 1960s, CBS correspondents joined the CIA hierarchy for private dinners and briefings.

    ***

    Allen Dulles often interceded with his good friend, the late Henry Luce, founder of Timeand Life magazines, who readily allowed certain members of his staff to work for the Agency and agreed to provide jobs and credentials for other CIA operatives who lacked journalistic experience.

    ***

    In the 1950s and early 1960s, Time magazine’s foreign correspondents attended CIA “briefing” dinners similar to those the CIA held for CBS.

    ***

    When Newsweek was purchased by the Washington Post Company, publisher Philip L. Graham was informed by Agency officials that the CIA occasionally used the magazine for cover purposes, according to CIA sources. “It was widely known that Phil Graham was somebody you could get help from,” said a former deputy director of the Agency. “Frank Wisner dealt with him.” Wisner, deputy director of the CIA from 1950 until shortly before his suicide in 1965, was the Agency’s premier orchestrator of “black” operations, including many in which journalists were involved. Wisner liked to boast of his “mighty Wurlitzer,” a wondrous propaganda instrument he built, and played, with help from the press.)

    ***

    In November 1973, after [the CIA claimed to have ended the program], Colby told reporters and editors from the New York Times and the Washington Star that the Agency had “some three dozen” American newsmen “on the CIA payroll,” including five who worked for “general‑circulation news organizations.” Yet even while the Senate Intelligence Committee was holding its hearings in 1976, according to high‑level CIA sources, the CIA continued to maintain ties with seventy‑five to ninety journalists of every description—executives, reporters, stringers, photographers, columnists, bureau clerks and members of broadcast technical crews. More than half of these had been moved off CIA contracts and payrolls but they were still bound by other secret agreements with the Agency. According to an unpublished report by the House Select Committee on Intelligence, chaired by Representative Otis Pike, at least fifteen news organizations were still providing cover for CIA operatives as of 1976.

    ***

    Those officials most knowledgeable about the subject say that a figure of 400 American journalists is on the low side ….

    “There were a lot of representations that if this stuff got out some of the biggest names in journalism would get smeared” ….

An expert on propaganda testified under oath during trial that the CIA now employs THOUSANDS of reporters and OWNS its own media organizations. Whether or not his estimate is accurate, it is clear that many prominent reporters still report to the CIA.

A 4-part BBC documentary called the “Century of the Self” shows that an American – Freud’s nephew, Edward Bernays – created the modern field of manipulation of public perceptions, and the U.S. government has extensively used his techniques.

John Pilger is a highly-regarded journalist (the BBC’s world affairs editor John Simpson remarked, “A country that does not have a John Pilger in its journalism is a very feeble place indeed”). Pilger said in 2007:

    We now know that the BBC and other British media were used by the British secret intelligence service MI-6. In what they called Operation Mass Appeal, MI-6 agents planted stories about Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction, such as weapons hidden in his palaces and in secret underground bunkers. All of these stories were fake.

    ***

    One of my favorite stories about the Cold War concerns a group of Russian journalists who were touring the United States. On the final day of their visit, they were asked by the host for their impressions. “I have to tell you,” said the spokesman, “that we were astonished to find after reading all the newspapers and watching TV day after day that all the opinions on all the vital issues are the same. To get that result in our country we send journalists to the gulag. We even tear out their fingernails. Here you don’t have to do any of that. What is the secret?”

Nick Davies wrote in the Independent in 2008:

    “For the first time in human history, there is a concerted strategy to manipulate global perception. And the mass media are operating as its compliant assistants, failing both to resist it and to expose it.

    The sheer ease with which this machinery has been able to do its work reflects a creeping structural weakness which now afflicts the production of our news. I’ve spent the last two years researching a book about falsehood, distortion and propaganda in the global media.

    The “Zarqawi letter” which made it on to the front page of The New York Times in February 2004 was one of a sequence of highly suspect documents which were said to have been written either by or to Zarqawi and which were fed into news media.

    This material is being generated, in part, by intelligence agencies who continue to work without effective oversight; and also by a new and essentially benign structure of “strategic communications” which was originally designed by doves in the Pentagon and Nato who wanted to use subtle and non-violent tactics to deal with Islamist terrorism but whose efforts are poorly regulated and badly supervised with the result that some of its practitioners are breaking loose and engaging in the black arts of propaganda.”

    ***

    The Pentagon has now designated “information operations” as its fifth “core competency” alongside land, sea, air and special forces. Since October 2006, every brigade, division and corps in the US military has had its own “psyop” element producing output for local media. This military activity is linked to the State Department’s campaign of “public diplomacy” which includes funding radio stations and news websites. In Britain, the Directorate of Targeting and Information Operations in the Ministry of Defence works with specialists from 15 UK psyops, based at the Defence Intelligence and Security School at Chicksands in Bedfordshire.

    In the case of British intelligence, you can see this combination of reckless propaganda and failure of oversight at work in the case of Operation Mass Appeal. This was exposed by the former UN arms inspector Scott Ritter, who describes in his book, Iraq Confidential, how, in London in June 1998, he was introduced to two “black propaganda specialists” from MI6 who wanted him to give them material which they could spread through “editors and writers who work with us from time to time”.

The government is still paying off reporters to spread disinformation. And the corporate media are acting like virtual “escort services” for the moneyed elites, selling access – for a price – to powerful government officials, instead of actually investigating and reporting on what those officials are doing.

One of the ways that the U.S. government spreads propaganda is by making sure that it gets its version out first. For example, the head of the U.S. Information Agency’s television and film division – Alvin A. Snyder – wrote in his book, Warriors of Disinformation: How Lies, Videotape, and the USIA Won the Cold War:

    “All governments, including our own, lie when it suits their purposes. The key is to lie first.”

    ***

    Another casualty, always war’s first, was the truth. The story of [the accidental Russian shoot-down of a Korean airliner] will be remembered pretty much the way we told it in 1983, not the way it really happened.

In 2013, the American Congress repealed the formal ban against the deployment of propaganda against U.S. citizens living on American soil. So there’s even less to constrain propaganda than before.

One of the most common uses of propaganda is to sell unnecessary and counter-productive wars. Given that the American media is always pro-war, mainstream publishers, producers, editors, and reporters are willing participants.

It’s not just lying about Saddam’s non-existent weapons of mass destruction … the corporate media is still selling lies to promote war.

Former Newsweek and Associated Press reporter Robert Parry notes that Ronald Reagan and the CIA unleashed a propaganda campaign in the 1980’s to sell the American public on supporting the Contra rebels, utilizing private players such as Rupert Murdoch to spread disinformation. Parry notes that many of the same people that led Reagan’s domestic propaganda effort in the 1980’s are in power today:

    “While the older generation that pioneered these domestic propaganda techniques has passed from the scene, many of their protégés are still around along with some of the same organizations. The National Endowment for Democracy, which was formed in 1983 at the urging of CIA Director Casey and under the supervision of Walter Raymond’s NSC operation, is still run by the same neocon, Carl Gershman, and has an even bigger budget, now exceeding $100 million a year.

    Gershman and his NED played important behind-the-scenes roles in instigating the Ukraine crisis by financing activists, journalists and other operatives who supported the coup against elected President Yanukovych. The NED-backed Freedom House also beat the propaganda drums. [See Consortiumnews.com’s “A Shadow Foreign Policy.”]

    Two other Reagan-era veterans, Elliott Abrams and Robert Kagan, have both provided important intellectual support for continuing U.S. interventionism around the world. Earlier this year, Kagan’s article for The New Republic, entitled “Superpowers Don’t Get to Retire,” touched such a raw nerve with President Obama that he hosted Kagan at a White House lunch and crafted the presidential commencement speech at West Point to deflect some of Kagan’s criticism of Obama’s hesitancy to use military force.

    ***

    Rupert Murdoch’s media empire is bigger than ever ….

Another key to American propaganda is the constant repetition of propaganda. As Business Insider reported in 2013:

    Lt. Col. Daniel Davis, a highly-respected officer who released a critical report regarding the distortion of truth by senior military officials in Iraq and Afghanistan ….

    From Lt. Col. Davis:

    In context, Colonel Leap is implying we ought to change the law to enable Public Affairs officers to influence American public opinion when they deem it necessary to “protect a key friendly center of gravity, to wit US national will.”

    The Smith-Mundt Modernization Act of 2012 appears to serve this purpose by allowing for the American public to be a target audience of U.S. government-funded information campaigns.

    Davis also quotes Brigadier General Ralph O. Baker — the Pentagon officer responsible for the Department of Defense’s Joint Force Development — who defines Information Operations (IO) as activities undertaken to “shape the essential narrative of a conflict or situation and thus affect the attitudes and behaviors of the targeted audience.”

    Brig. Gen. Baker goes on to equate descriptions of combat operations with the standard marketing strategy of repeating something until it is accepted:

    For years, commercial advertisers have based their advertisement strategies on the premise that there is a positive correlation between the number of times a consumer is exposed to product advertisement and that consumer’s inclination to sample the new product. The very same principle applies to how we influence our target audiences when we conduct COIN.

    And those “thousands of hours per week of government-funded radio and TV programs” appear to serve Baker’s strategy, which states: “Repetition is a key tenet of IO execution, and the failure to constantly drive home a consistent message dilutes the impact on the target audiences.”

Government Massively Manipulates the Web, Social Media and Other Forms of Communication

Of course, the Web and social media have become a huge media platform, and the Pentagon and other government agencies are massively manipulating both.

Documents released by Snowden show that spies manipulate polls, website popularity and pageview counts, censor videos they don’t like and amplify messages they do.

The CIA and other government agencies also put enormous energy into pushing propaganda throughmovies, television and video games.

Cross-Border Propaganda

Propaganda isn’t limited to our own borders …

Sometimes, the government plants disinformation in American media in order to mislead foreigners. For example, an official government summary of America’s overthrow of the democratically-elected president of Iran in the 1950′s states, “In cooperation with the Department of State, CIA had several articles planted in major American newspapers and magazines which, when reproduced in Iran, had the desired psychological effect in Iran and contributed to the war of nerves against Mossadeq” (page x).

The CIA has also bribed leading foreign journalists.

And CNN accepted money from the brutal Bahrani dictatorship to run pro-monarchy propaganda.

Everyone Who Challenges the Status Quo Is Labeled As a Purveyor of “Fake News”… Or Worse

The First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution protects the freedom of the press from censorship by government.

Indeed, the entire reason that it’s unlawful for the government to stop stories from being printed is because that would punish those who criticize those in power.

Why? Because the Founding Father knew that governments (like the British monarchy) will always crack down on those who point out that the emperor has no clothes.

But the freedom of the press is under massive attack in America today …

For example, the powers-that-be argue that only highly-paid corporate media shills who will act as stenographers for the fatcats should have the constitutional protections guaranteeing freedom of the press.

A Harvard law school professor argues that the First Amendment is outdated and should be abandoned.

When financially-savvy bloggers challenged the Federal Reserve’s policy, a Fed official called all bloggers stupid and unqualified to comment.

And the government is treating the real investigative reporters like criminals … or even terrorists:

    Obama has gone after top reporters. His Department of Justice labeled chief Fox News Washington correspondent James Rosen a “criminal co-conspirator” in a leak case, and for many years threatened to prosecute Pulitzer-prize winning New York Times journalist James Risen

    The Obama administration also spied on Risen, Rosen, the Associated Press, CBS reporter Cheryl Atkinson and other media

    In fact, top NSA whistleblowers tell Washington’s Blog that the NSA has spied on reporters for well over a decade … to make sure they don’t reveal illegal government programs

    The Pentagon smeared USA Today reporters because they investigated illegal Pentagon propaganda

    Reporters covering the Occupy protests were targeted for arrest

    The government admits that journalists could be targeted with counter-terrorism laws (and here). For example, after Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Chris Hedges, journalist Naomi Wolf, Pentagon Papers whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg and others sued the government to enjoin the NDAA’s allowance of the indefinite detention of Americans – the judge asked the government attorneys 5 times whether journalists like Hedges could be indefinitely detained simply for interviewing and then writing aboutbad guys. The government refused to promise that journalists like Hedges won’t be thrown in a dungeon for the rest of their lives without any right to talk to a judge

    In an effort to protect Bank of America from the threatened Wikileaks expose of the bank’s wrongdoing, the Department of Justice told Bank of America to a hire a specific hardball-playing law firm to assemble a team to take down WikiLeaks (and see this)

    The NSA and its British counterpart treated Wikileaks like a terrorist organization, going so far as to target its employees politically, and to spy on visitors to its website.
Title: Fake Newz: NEW! Diner Real Newz Page
Post by: RE on November 30, 2016, 06:48:48 AM
Have done:
attached is a .htm file which you can drop directly into a webpage,
and this is the bbcode version:

DoomsteadDiner.net is not in the list!  :(

RE

It will be, along with others the list missed.  In time I will also eliminate those I don't care for.  Color will also return, but I'm just trying to get it all up first.

http://chasingthesquirrel.com/ (http://chasingthesquirrel.com/)

Palloy, thanks that will help.


Progress report:

I'm about half done hacking it all together.  I'll add the rest to the first hundred when I have them all.

(http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/newzhound.jpg)
I created a Diner "Real Newz" page.  It's right beneath the regular newz page, and currently has all the links from K-Dogs page pasted in.

K-Dog, let me know when you get it updated, and get the fucking DINER in there!

It's available from the link below, or from a dropdown menu on the upper nav bar on the Diner Homepage.

http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/news/real-newz/ (http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/news/real-newz/)

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: K-Dog on November 30, 2016, 08:23:16 AM
The List is up!

The list is up at http://chasingthesquirrel.com/ (http://chasingthesquirrel.com/).

More work needs to be done to fold my old list into the new one but half of what I had in my old list is in this new blacklist anyway.  For now my list is a flat page of menu tabs and the blacklist is all there.  The only restored deviation so far is the addition of the doomsteaddiner which is at the front of the list.

As I tested links I noted, (as I have been advocating all along) that the suppression of independent news is synonymous with the suppression of collapse information and we are targets.  As Scott said:

Quote
Anyone who has followed these issues closely already knows that these media corporations, owned by a handful of billionaires and closely linked to the "intelligence community," have censored content from their users.   It appears that this pattern of deception is about to get much, much worse.
 

Note the use of "intelligence community".  That is Scott's way of saying men in black.

(http://www.energyenhancement.org/agent-smith.jpg)

If the pattern of deception is about to get much, much worse the Diner and I will be fighting back as long as we can!
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: RE on November 30, 2016, 09:13:24 AM
The List is up!

The list is up at http://chasingthesquirrel.com/ (http://chasingthesquirrel.com/).

Now reproduced on the Diner REAL NEWZ page.  :icon_sunny:

OK, we're small, but we are GROWING!

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: K-Dog on December 01, 2016, 12:54:17 AM
I have most of my old links mixed into the fake newz list now.  Next I'll make it alphabetize automatically and at the top will be a random pick button.  I'll do something like what I did with my newspaper pile.  It will look cool when I get some code massaging in it to color and sort.


Size matters and I have the bigger list!

(http://tbivision.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Size-Matters.png)

(http://carseatblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/size-matters.jpg)
Title: Fake Newz
Post by: Guest Blogger on December 01, 2016, 02:41:31 AM


youtube-Logo-4gc2reddit-logoOff the keyboard of Palloy



Follow us on Twitter @doomstead666

Friend us on Facebook



Published on The Doomstead Diner on December 1, 2016



propaganda



Discuss this article at the Diner Newz Table



VISIT THE NEW REAL NEWZ PAGE ON THE DINER



Regularly updated links to Alternative Newz Websites



 



Fake News is news that has been made up and is completely untrue.  It is a waste of everybody's time, made worse by the mindless idiots on Facebook and Twitter, who spread it without thinking.



So some professor from a US university posted a list of "Fake News" websites on Facebook, but those on the list were mostly just anti-establishment websites, giving alternative viewpoints, not fake news. Prominent among the mistakes was RT , (formerly Russia Today), which is financed by the Russian State, and a genuine news site.  RT is comparable to the British BBC and Australian ABC news outlets, except that the latter wouldn't say "Boo" to their Prime Ministers, let alone the US President or Rupert Murdoch. 



RT.com



It has to be admitted that RT likes to publish all the things that the US Government would be embarrassed about, but that is what the US media ought to be doing as part of their job too, but don't.  RT also publishes what President Putin and Foreign Minister Lavrov are saying about world affairs, including the context and background of their statements, which is important to know if you want to express an informed opinion on world affairs.



Thus if you want to get a balanced outlook on current events, and only have time for 2 sites, then CNN and RT should be your first two choices.  They won't be the same, obviously, because they represent the two sides of the argument.



So naturally some of the genuine, but anti-establishment news sites also the on the list, objected.  The financial news site ZeroHedge was one of them.  They follow the Austrian School viewpoint on finance, as opposed to the Keynesian viewpoint, and are hence always anti-Federal Reserve, and pro-"a huge economic collapse is coming"and pro-Gold Standard. You don't have to be an Austrian economist to read ZeroHedge (I'm not one) because they do manage to dig up amazing facts and charts from official sources.  ZH heaped scorn and derision on the list, which presumably caused a twitter-storm amongst the shouting classes.



And thus a new meme was born – "Fake News" is no longer fake news, but anything that doesn't follow the US establishment line.



The list was quickly taken up by the Washington Post, that cheer-leader for the wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria.  Remember the WMDs in Iraq, which were ever found ?  Who grilled Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Powell over that big lie, either before or after the invasion? – not WaPo, that's for sure.



PropOrNot



WaPo cites the origin of the list as the website called propornot.com, which has been hosted by GoDaddy since 21 August, and uses free BlogSpot blogging software, and doesn't give the names of any of the people involved.  You will find this on their Home Page:

 




Quote




http://www.propornot.com/p/home.html

We call on Congressional leadership, and the Obama administration, to:



    Immediately begin investigations to determine whether any U.S. government action or inaction has allowed Russia to manipulate the US domestic political process, and interfere in the 2016 election, through online propaganda.



    Immediately begin investigations to determine whether, by action or inaction, the American public has been deprived of related information that they need to vote in an informed manner.



    Work with our European allies to disconnect Russia from the SWIFT financial transaction system, effective immediately and lasting for at least one year, as an appropriate response to Russian manipulation of the election.





 





The first two points are silly, but understandable – "begin investigations" into blah blah blah, OK.  But the third is an immediate punishment for a guilty Russia.  Huh?  Aren't we going to await the outcome of the investigation before proceeding to punishment?  You know, "Innocent until proven guilty" and all that?  That's a bit like President Obama saying Osama bin Laden got "justice", when in fact he was simply assassinated and his body disappeared, which WaPO reported on but didn't question.



SWIFT



If you haven't heard of it before, SWIFT is an internet system which allows banks in different countries to exchange the necessary paperwork before and after the actual transfer of big sums of money, over secure channels.  The threat of being excluded from SWIFT, and hence being internationally isolated, is a very big stick indeed, and would likely lead to the instant start of WW3. 



At least, it would have if the Russians hadn't already written and implemented their own version of SWIFT, known as RosSwift.  It has been up and running for over a year, catering for Russian-to-Russian bank transactions, hence relieving Russia from having to worry about having their national inter-bank transactions being monitored by the US.  All it would take for it to become internationally operational would be the issuing of log-in credentials for RosSwift to foreign banks.  Presumably the Russians have decided, for now, not to split the world into 2 competing financial blocs, but they ready for it.



A moment's consideration should be enough for you to realise that the rest of the BRICS group, China, India, Brazil and South Africa would immediately join RosSwift, as would the CSO countries, Belarus, Armenia, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, and Kyrgyzstan, and other assorted hangers on like Syria, Iran, Philippines, Cuba, Venezuela – well over half the world's population.  The US couldn't sanction them all, so it would have to live with it.



Then you've got the problem of how the EU countries and Turkey are going to pay for their Russian oil and gas imports, unless they join RosSwift too.  And very soon you will see that cutting Russia off from SWIFT would be a HUGE mistake with endless blowback for the US, and that PropOrNot must be a complete bunch of idiots.



How do PropOrNot identify "Russian propaganda"?



There is a long list of ways that PropOrNot says it can tell if a website is a Russian propaganda site.  This one is quite instructive:

 




Quote




http://www.propornot.com/2016/10/introducing-propornot-be-aware-of-and.html



16. Appear to be effectively influencing public opinion in significant and very problematic ways, by promoting:

    Conspiracy theories about and protests against US military exercises,

    Isolationism/anti-interventionism generally,

    Support for policies like Brexit, and the breakup of the EU and Eurozone,

    Opposition to Ukrainian resistance to Russia and Syrian resistance to Assad,

    Support for the anti-vax, anti-Zika spraying, anti-GMO, 9/11-”truther”, gold-standard, and other related movements





 



   

Yes, if you believe in a peaceful non-interventionist US foreign policy, or supported Brexit like a majority of British voters did, or support a return to the gold standard, or are against Genetically Modified Organisms, you are a Russian propagandist !



The question is …



Getting back to WaPo, why would a news organisation with such an impeccable reputation for good journalism, choose to pick up this story from an anonymous bunch of idiots with a $10 web-site?  Perhaps because they are not a bunch of idiots at all, but a secretive cabal of war-crazed neo-cons, and WaPo have been given the establishment nod of approval to promote them. 



The implications of all this is that if a site regularly publishes articles which question US policy on its interventionist stance towards countries it doesn't like, or on going back to the gold standard, or on Brexit and the break-up of the EU, (all of which are common themes here on Doomstead Diner), then it could be branded a Russian propaganda outlet and some kind of sanctions applied against it.  This could involve lowering its ranking or removing it altogether from Google search results, and Facebook/Twitter news feed rankings, to outright closure.  Facebook has already announced that it is looking at modifying its news filters to try harder to eliminate fake news.



This is a very serious development for all people with alternative views to the US establishment.



The List



And finally, here is the list.  How many of these sites do you want to hear from as part of your political discussion?



fake-newz


Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on December 01, 2016, 05:47:22 AM
Step 2 in the Fake Newz project is for a 93-page bill to suddenly pop into existence and pass the House, with the Senate to vote before the end of the year, which takes it for granted that Russia interfered in the US election, and creating a new interagency panel to suppress "covert influences".

https://www.rt.com/usa/368776-house-bill-russian-influence/ (https://www.rt.com/usa/368776-house-bill-russian-influence/)
House passes intelligence bill aimed at thwarting Russia's 'influence over people & govts'
1 Dec, 2016

The House of Representatives has passed an intelligence bill aimed at tackling what Washington claims is political interference by Russia on a global level.

The 93-page bill, passed by the House in a 390-30 vote on Wednesday, calls for setting up a new, interagency panel to suppress Russia's alleged attempts to "exert covert influence over peoples and governments," The Washington Post reported.

The draft legislation goes on to state that the panel would be tasked with "countering active measures by Russia to exert covert influence, including exposing falsehoods, agents of influence, corruption, human rights abuses, terrorism and assassinations carried out by the security services or political elites of the Russian Federation or their proxies.”

The bill could be seen in direct opposition to President-elect Donald Trump's plan to strengthen relations with Moscow.

In addition to thwarting Russia's alleged interference, the bill also outlines funding for efforts to foil attacks and deny terrorists safe harbor in Iraq, Syria, North Africa, and other locations. It aims to strengthen counter-intelligence and address threats from adversaries in cyberspace, space and at sea.

It also updates whistleblower procedures in the intelligence community and requires a declassification review of intelligence reports on detainees transferred out of Guantanamo Bay by President Barack Obama and former President George W. Bush.

The Senate is expected to vote on the bill before the end of the year.

Also Wednesday, the six Democrats on the Senate Intelligence Committee sent a letter to President Obama, seeking declassification of information about Russia's alleged meddling in the US presidential election.

“We believe there is additional information concerning the Russian government and the US election that should be declassified and released to the public,” they wrote in the letter. "We are conveying specifics through classified channels."

Moscow has dismissed claims that it meddled in the US presidential election as "nonsense," with President Vladimir Putin calling the accusation an attempt to distract American voters from domestic issues.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov recently told Italian newspaper Corriere della sera that there is still no proof of Moscow’s alleged meddling in the US presidential elections, calling the accusations “myth-making with a goal to solve the short-term political objectives.”

“No promised ‘evidence’ of interference in the electoral process has been presented neither to the American, nor to the international public,” Lavrov said.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: K-Dog on December 01, 2016, 10:07:30 AM
Quote
House passes intelligence bill aimed at thwarting Russia's 'influence over people & govts'

This is fake news.  The only source is RT and no names are named.  Be it known that all members of Congress have names and as no sponsor or NAME is mentioned anywhere in the RT report, this news is a crock of shit.  There is no other source.

My lists are good for amateur bloodhounds sniffing out truth.  RT's report really is fake news this time, unless someone post details on the bill, details I can't find; that is how it goes. 

RT was on the original list.  An named professor does not work for me.  The RT story were it true would be the opening of a Pandora's box.

Besides which, the list is only a start for me.  I was making lists of my own and collecting independent news websites all on my own for a long time.  Now I have critical mass to work with and I will manage the list and keep it clean as lists like this are always under attack and links are rewritten and blocked.  RT will be removed from my list.  It already is in the newspaper pile anyway.  RT will be gone from my alternative news list in tonights upload.

http://chasingthesquirrel.com/ (http://chasingthesquirrel.com/)


Quote
" lists like this are always under attack and links are rewritten and blocked."

I fixed one last night and I will be checking links on a regular basis.  This is no paranoia.  I  have had my list for years and know what happens when you own one.  Somebody seems to be able to hack into anything they want to but they don't seem to perhaps have quite all the staff or time they would like to have.

I wonder who that could be?

(http://wallpoper.com/images/00/02/99/84/agent-smith_00029984.jpg)
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Eddie on December 01, 2016, 10:26:12 AM
Step 2 in the Fake Newz project is for a 93-page bill to suddenly pop into existence and pass the House, with the Senate to vote before the end of the year, which takes it for granted that Russia interfered in the US election, and creating a new interagency panel to suppress "covert influences".

https://www.rt.com/usa/368776-house-bill-russian-influence/ (https://www.rt.com/usa/368776-house-bill-russian-influence/)
House passes intelligence bill aimed at thwarting Russia's 'influence over people & govts'
1 Dec, 2016

The House of Representatives has passed an intelligence bill aimed at tackling what Washington claims is political interference by Russia on a global level.

The 93-page bill, passed by the House in a 390-30 vote on Wednesday, calls for setting up a new, interagency panel to suppress Russia's alleged attempts to "exert covert influence over peoples and governments," The Washington Post reported.

The draft legislation goes on to state that the panel would be tasked with "countering active measures by Russia to exert covert influence, including exposing falsehoods, agents of influence, corruption, human rights abuses, terrorism and assassinations carried out by the security services or political elites of the Russian Federation or their proxies.”

The bill could be seen in direct opposition to President-elect Donald Trump's plan to strengthen relations with Moscow.

In addition to thwarting Russia's alleged interference, the bill also outlines funding for efforts to foil attacks and deny terrorists safe harbor in Iraq, Syria, North Africa, and other locations. It aims to strengthen counter-intelligence and address threats from adversaries in cyberspace, space and at sea.

It also updates whistleblower procedures in the intelligence community and requires a declassification review of intelligence reports on detainees transferred out of Guantanamo Bay by President Barack Obama and former President George W. Bush.

The Senate is expected to vote on the bill before the end of the year.

Also Wednesday, the six Democrats on the Senate Intelligence Committee sent a letter to President Obama, seeking declassification of information about Russia's alleged meddling in the US presidential election.

“We believe there is additional information concerning the Russian government and the US election that should be declassified and released to the public,” they wrote in the letter. "We are conveying specifics through classified channels."

Moscow has dismissed claims that it meddled in the US presidential election as "nonsense," with President Vladimir Putin calling the accusation an attempt to distract American voters from domestic issues.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov recently told Italian newspaper Corriere della sera that there is still no proof of Moscow’s alleged meddling in the US presidential elections, calling the accusations “myth-making with a goal to solve the short-term political objectives.”

“No promised ‘evidence’ of interference in the electoral process has been presented neither to the American, nor to the international public,” Lavrov said.

Trust the Congress to do the exact wrong thing, for the obvious reasons.

http://www.youtube.com/v/JN99jshaQbY&fs=1

Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: azozeo on December 01, 2016, 10:26:55 AM
https://theintercept.com/2016/11/26/washington-post-disgracefully-promotes-a-mccarthyite-blacklist-from-a-new-hidden-and-very-shady-group/


Washington Post Disgracefully Promotes a McCarthyite Blacklist From a New, Hidden, and Very Shady Group
Ben Norton
Glenn Greenwald
November 26 2016, 11:17 a.m.

The Washington Post on Thursday night promoted the claims of a new, shadowy organization that smears dozens of U.S. news sites that are critical of U.S. foreign policy as being “routine peddlers of Russian propaganda.” The article by reporter Craig Timberg — headlined “Russian propaganda effort helped spread ‘fake news’ during election, experts say” — cites a report by an anonymous website calling itself PropOrNot, which claims that millions of Americans have been deceived this year in a massive Russian “misinformation campaign.”

The group’s list of Russian disinformation outlets includes WikiLeaks and the Drudge Report, as well as Clinton-critical left-wing websites such as Truthout, Black Agenda Report, Truthdig, and Naked Capitalism, as well as libertarian venues such as Antiwar.com and the Ron Paul Institute.

This Post report was one of the most widely circulated political news articles on social media over the last 48 hours, with dozens, perhaps hundreds, of U.S. journalists and pundits with large platforms hailing it as an earth-shattering exposé. It was the most-read piece on the entire Post website on Friday after it was published.

Yet the article is rife with obviously reckless and unproven allegations, and fundamentally shaped by shoddy, slothful journalistic tactics. It was not surprising to learn that, as BuzzFeed’s Sheera Frenkel noted, “a lot of reporters passed on this story.” Its huge flaws are self-evident. But the Post gleefully ran with it and then promoted it aggressively, led by its Executive Editor Marty Baron:


In casting the group behind this website as “experts,” the Post described PropOrNot simply as “a nonpartisan collection of researchers with foreign policy, military and technology backgrounds.” Not one individual at the organization is named. The executive director is quoted, but only on the condition of anonymity, which the Post said it was providing the group “to avoid being targeted by Russia’s legions of skilled hackers.”

In other words, the individuals behind this newly created group are publicly branding journalists and news outlets as tools of Russian propaganda — even calling on the FBI to investigate them for espionage — while cowardly hiding their own identities. The group promoted by the Post thus embodies the toxic essence of Joseph McCarthy, but without the courage to attach individual names to the blacklist. Echoing the Wisconsin senator, the group refers to its lengthy collection of sites spouting Russian propaganda as “The List.”

The credentials of this supposed group of experts are impossible to verify, as none is provided either by the Post or by the group itself. The Intercept contacted PropOrNot and asked numerous questions about its team, but received only this reply: “We’re getting a lot of requests for comment and can get back to you today =) [smiley face emoticon].” The group added: “We’re over 30 people, organized into teams, and we cannot confirm or deny anyone’s involvement.”

Thus far, they have provided no additional information beyond that. As Fortune’s Matthew Ingram wrote in criticizing the Post article, PropOrNot’s Twitter account “has only existed since August of this year. And an article announcing the launch of the group on its website is dated last month.” WHOIS information for the domain name is not available, as the website uses private registration.

More troubling still, PropOrNot listed numerous organizations on its website as “allied” with it, yet many of these claimed “allies” told The Intercept, and complained on social media, they have nothing to do with the group and had never even heard of it before the Post published its story.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: K-Dog on December 01, 2016, 02:39:19 PM
Step 2 in the Fake Newz project is for a 93-page bill to suddenly pop into existence and pass the House, with the Senate to vote before the end of the year, which takes it for granted that Russia interfered in the US election, and creating a new interagency panel to suppress "covert influences".

https://www.rt.com/usa/368776-house-bill-russian-influence/ (https://www.rt.com/usa/368776-house-bill-russian-influence/)
House passes intelligence bill aimed at thwarting Russia's 'influence over people & govts'
1 Dec, 2016

The House of Representatives has passed an intelligence bill aimed at tackling what Washington claims is political interference by Russia on a global level.

The 93-page bill, passed by the House in a 390-30 vote on Wednesday, calls for setting up a new, interagency panel to suppress Russia's alleged attempts to "exert covert influence over peoples and governments," The Washington Post reported.

The draft legislation goes on to state that the panel would be tasked with "countering active measures by Russia to exert covert influence, including exposing falsehoods, agents of influence, corruption, human rights abuses, terrorism and assassinations carried out by the security services or political elites of the Russian Federation or their proxies.”

The bill could be seen in direct opposition to President-elect Donald Trump's plan to strengthen relations with Moscow.

In addition to thwarting Russia's alleged interference, the bill also outlines funding for efforts to foil attacks and deny terrorists safe harbor in Iraq, Syria, North Africa, and other locations. It aims to strengthen counter-intelligence and address threats from adversaries in cyberspace, space and at sea.

It also updates whistleblower procedures in the intelligence community and requires a declassification review of intelligence reports on detainees transferred out of Guantanamo Bay by President Barack Obama and former President George W. Bush.

The Senate is expected to vote on the bill before the end of the year.

Also Wednesday, the six Democrats on the Senate Intelligence Committee sent a letter to President Obama, seeking declassification of information about Russia's alleged meddling in the US presidential election.

“We believe there is additional information concerning the Russian government and the US election that should be declassified and released to the public,” they wrote in the letter. "We are conveying specifics through classified channels."

Moscow has dismissed claims that it meddled in the US presidential election as "nonsense," with President Vladimir Putin calling the accusation an attempt to distract American voters from domestic issues.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov recently told Italian newspaper Corriere della sera that there is still no proof of Moscow’s alleged meddling in the US presidential elections, calling the accusations “myth-making with a goal to solve the short-term political objectives.”

“No promised ‘evidence’ of interference in the electoral process has been presented neither to the American, nor to the international public,” Lavrov said.

Trust the Congress to do the exact wrong thing, for the obvious reasons.

http://www.youtube.com/v/JN99jshaQbY&fs=1

Full of sound and fury signifying nothing.  So the un-named and in-numbered bill which has unidentifiable sponsors has 93 pages.  That would be good to know if it were not a red flag in itself.  What congressional bill only has 93 pages?  Half of what RE spews is longer than that.  LOL.

All stories anywhere link back to RT.  There is no bill or if there is it is essentially unrelated to the accusation else it would be identified.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on December 01, 2016, 04:20:59 PM
Quote
There is no bill or if there is it is essentially unrelated to the accusation else it would be identified.

RT updated their article after I posted it.  It now gives the vote number and a link
to govtrack.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/114-2016/h593 (https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/114-2016/h593)
    House Vote #593 in 2016

H.R. 6393: Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2017

This was a vote to pass H.R. 6393 in the House. The federal budget process occurs in two stages: appropriations and authorizations. This is an authorization bill, which directs how federal funds should or should not be used. (It does not set overall spending limits, however, which are the subject of appropriations bills.) Authorizations are typically made for single fiscal years (October 1 through September 30 of the next year) but are often renewed in subsequent law. This vote was taken under a House procedure called “suspension of the rules” which is typically used to pass non-controversial bills. Votes under suspension require a 2/3rds majority. A failed vote under suspension can be taken again.

Congress: 114th Congress
Date: Nov 30, 2016
Chamber: House
Number: #593

Question:
    On Motion to Suspend the Rules and Pass in the House
Result:
    Passed

390 - 30 Passed

[Complete list of voters, party breakdowns, etc]



https://www.gop.gov/bill/h-r-6393-intelligence-authorization-act-fiscal-year-2017/ (https://www.gop.gov/bill/h-r-6393-intelligence-authorization-act-fiscal-year-2017/)
H.R. 6393
Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2017

Sponsor: Rep. Devin Nunes

Bill Summary

H.R. 6393 authorizes appropriations for intelligence and intelligence-related activities of the U.S. government for fiscal year 2017. This bill is similar to H.R. 5077, which passed the House on May 24, 2016, on a bipartisan vote of 371-35, but reflects extensive negotiations with the Senate. The Senate Select Committee on Intelligence reported S. 3017 on June 15, 2016. All provisions in H.R. 6393 are derived from H.R. 5077 or S. 3017.  The Legislative Digest for H.R. 5077 can be found here. Significant changes from H.R. 5077—reflecting provisions incorporated from S. 3017—include:
[...]
Matters Relating to Foreign Countries: Creates a new Title V that establishes an interagency committee to counter active measure by the Russian Federation to exert cover influence, places limitations on travel of accredited diplomats and consular of the Russian Federation in the United States, and requires a study on enhanced intelligence and information sharing with Open Skies Treaty member states.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: K-Dog on December 01, 2016, 08:27:12 PM
Excellent!

There is something to the bill.  It is a bill to fund spooks which the American taxpayer gets to pay for.  I am not understanding why RT could not have mentioned:

1)  H.R. 6393
2)  Rep. Devin Nunes
3) Details regarding the relevant content:

Quote
SEC.  5

COMMITTEE  TO  COUNTER  ACTIVE  MEASURES  BY  THE  RUSSIAN  FEDERATION  TO  EXERT  COVERT  INFLUENCE  OVER  PEOPLES  AND  GOVERNMENTS.

DEFINITIONS
.—In this section:

(1)  ACTIVE   MEASURES   BY   RUSSIA   TO   EXERT COVERT   INFLUENCE

.—The  term  ‘‘active  measures 
by  Russia  to  exert  covert  influence’’  means  activities  intended  to  influence  a  person  or  government  that  are  carried  out  in  coordination  with,  or  at  the  behest  of,  political  leaders  or  the  security  services  of  the  Russian Federation and the role of the Russian Federation  has  been  hidden  or  not  acknowledged  publicly, including the following:

(A)  Establishment  or  funding  of  a  front 

group.

(B) Covert broadcasting.
(C) Media manipulation.
(D) Disinformation and forgeries.
(E) Funding agents of influence.
(F)  Incitement  and  offensive  counterinteligence
(G) Assassinations.
 (H) Terrorist acts.

I am not understanding unless RT did not want to admit that the Russian Federation is actively involved with media manipulation and that this bill is really nothing new as they wished to claim.  Section V is new, but it is described as a reaction to current Russian activity the knowledge of which I imagine RT wished to suppress.  Regardless, I am about to remove RT from the alternative list.  It belongs in my newspapers anyway. 

The story was not a balanced report and I was right to disregard it while Palloy's persistence unearthed the details.  Thank you Palloy!

RT does however have some redeeming qualities.

(https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13002384_972906342816461_1230762515838868329_o.jpg)

The eye candy can be pretty good!

This one was especially attractive!  She has more than just good looks!

(http://wtfrly.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/rtanchorquit1.jpg)

A worthy question is RT any more unbalanced in its reporting than any of it's western counterparts?

I think not.

H.R. 5077 the predecessor bill to H.R. 6393 passed the House on May 24, 2016, with a bipartisan vote of 371-35.  I find that number disappointing.  A better way to counter propaganda would be to educate the American people on how to tell the difference between fake news and the real deal.  Unfortunately to our lawmakers it is better to take the low road than the high road for the high road would also expose domestic lies.  Yet expecting members of congress to be independent thinkers is certainly expecting too much!

If I were in congress I would not be adding fuel to the fire of the propaganda arms race.

Regarding the anchor who quit.  I need to know more about her and her reasons for quitting before I can make an opinion about what she did.  She gets some benefit of doubt from me since she was quitting, but not much.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: RE on December 01, 2016, 08:43:11 PM
The Ruskies CERTAINLY put up HOTTER Newz Anchors than the Western MSM!  :icon_mrgreen:

(http://i3.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article6492146.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/Anchor2.jpg)

RT is obviously officially sanctioned propaganda from their side, it fits alt-news because it's diametrically opposed to what the MSM puts up here.  How true it all is is open to question.  Southfront is similar, although not an official state propaganda source, they spin everything from the Ruskie POV.

These are basically Political sites, not Collapse sites and I think there needs to be a distinction.  For example with the Diner, while we do report on Geopolitics, this is not the main focus, it's just one of the areas we cover.  Comparable sites to the Diner might be stuff like PeakOil.com or Archdruid or Automatic Earth, but none of those really covers collapse events in the way the Diner does.

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: RE on December 01, 2016, 09:06:30 PM
Quote
In Seattle’s Past, a Harbinger of Standing Rock

Why did you post this in the Fake Newz thread? ???  :icon_scratch:

It should be in the Standing Rock thread.

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: K-Dog on December 01, 2016, 09:11:17 PM
Quote
In Seattle’s Past, a Harbinger of Standing Rock

Why did you post this in the Fake Newz thread? ???  :icon_scratch:

It should be in the Standing Rock thread.

RE

My mistake.  I deleted  it with the intention of posting it there but now I can't post anything in the Standing Rock thread.  I can't get a cursor in my edit box on that thread.  Something is up.  I thought you might have taken an issue with my use of expletives yesterday but since you ask the question that can't be the case.

Go to the Seattle Weekly for the Article.  If I can't post it maybe you can.  It is worth a read.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: RE on December 01, 2016, 09:16:12 PM
Quote
In Seattle’s Past, a Harbinger of Standing Rock

Why did you post this in the Fake Newz thread? ???  :icon_scratch:

It should be in the Standing Rock thread.

RE

My mistake.  I deleted  it with the intention of posting it there but now I can't post anything in the Standing Rock thread.  I can't get a cursor in my edit box on that thread.  Something is up.  I thought you might have taken an issue with my use of expletives yesterday but since you ask the question that can't be the case.

Go to the Seattle Weekly for the Article.  If I can't post it maybe you can.  It is worth a read.

I'll retrieve it from the DNF file and merge it into the Standing Rock thread.  Gimme a couple of minutes.

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: K-Dog on December 01, 2016, 09:16:57 PM
And that news anchor you posted is certainly incapable of any 'balanced reporting' but I'm definitely OK with her bias!
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: RE on December 01, 2016, 09:26:37 PM
Seattle article retrieved and now in the Standing Rock thread.  :icon_sunny:

Your friendly neighborhood Admin is on the job!  :icon_sunny:

(http://img11.deviantart.net/6a01/i/2015/114/9/5/friendly_neighborhood_spider_man__by_acciowebs-d56wf16.jpg)

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on December 01, 2016, 09:30:49 PM
I just had a "authentication failure - please logout and log back in.  I went to /palloy/navbar.htm to get My-Messages up, and sent a message to myself to get the real navbar up, and I appeared to be logged in OK, with a Reply Button, so I am replying to see if its still wrong.  Now Post.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on December 01, 2016, 09:33:23 PM
Seems to have worked OK.  I wonder what that was. :WTF:
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: RE on December 01, 2016, 09:38:20 PM
Seems to have worked OK.  I wonder what that was. :WTF:

Could be we are being fucked with.

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on December 01, 2016, 10:16:10 PM
Getting back to the RT article, since the web page is easily altered by the journos, they tend to put a rush article up first, and then come back with more details later.  It now looks like this:

https://www.rt.com/usa/368776-house-bill-russian-influence/ (https://www.rt.com/usa/368776-house-bill-russian-influence/)
House passes intelligence bill aimed at thwarting Russia's 'influence over people & govts'
Published time: 1 Dec, 2016 05:17
Edited time: 1 Dec, 2016 16:20

The House of Representatives has passed an intelligence authorization bill containing a provision aimed at tackling what Washington claims is political interference by Russia on a global level.

The 93-page HR 6393 (https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/114-2016/h593), passed by the House in a 390-30 vote on Wednesday, calls for setting up a new, interagency panel to suppress Russia's alleged attempts to "exert covert influence over peoples and governments," the Washington Post reported.

[more]

Normally "Washington Post reported" would be a link too, but it isn't.  I can't find any article at WaPo, which is a bit odd.  Maybe WaPo put it up and took it down again, that happens a lot too.

Anyway ALL media put their SPIN on things, so everything has to be considered in context.  Where Spin turns into Propaganda is when lies creep in.  I think the only lie in all this is WaPo saying Russia interfered in the election, and they were only telling the same lie that Hillary/Congress had already told.  RT reported the election with their spin on it, Wikileaks emails and all.  Fair enough.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: K-Dog on December 01, 2016, 10:18:40 PM
Seems to have worked OK.  I wonder what that was. :WTF:

Could be we are being fucked with.

RE

Thanks for posting that.

We could be being fucked with or it could just be a glitch.  Regardless onward we march! 

(http://images.hngn.com/data/images/full/170603/greta-hoxha.png)

Maybe some of that H.R. 6393 money could sponsor some American propaganda of equal quality?  That is some fuel to throw on the propaganda fire I can get down with!

As you mentioned;

Quote
These are basically Political sites, not Collapse sites and I think there needs to be a distinction.  For example with the Diner, while we do report on Geopolitics, this is not the main focus, it's just one of the areas we cover.  Comparable sites to the Diner might be stuff like PeakOil.com or Archdruid or Automatic Earth, but none of those really covers collapse events in the way the Diner does.These are basically Political sites, not Collapse sites and I think there needs to be a distinction.  For example with the Diner, while we do report on Geopolitics, this is not the main focus, it's just one of the areas we cover.  Comparable sites to the Diner might be stuff like PeakOil.com or Archdruid or Automatic Earth, but none of those really covers collapse events in the way the Diner does.


Yes I agree.  I am going to have software sort my expanded version of 'the list' (which is now 'my list' since I am changing it) so color and position at http://chasingthesquirrel.com/ (http://chasingthesquirrel.com/) will identify the type of site linked.  I am thinking of making a way so visitors can vote on the color and identifying type of a link menu item.  That would be some cool interaction and the worst that could happen is that a few links could get mislabeled.  Right now few people go to my site since I have neglected it after I once again became a working stiff.  I'll get some time to work my code out later this month for sure.  I was thinking about working on the code next week when I have to visit upstate New York (business trip) but I'm probably dreaming and not thinking rationally about how much free time I'll have.  The newspaper pile on my website is sorted alphabetically within each country and each country is color coded.  The colors rotate between countries to give an illusion of freshness once a day.  I'm pretty good at writing code but since I never do it for very long at a time I always have a learning curve to climb before I can get back into the swing of things.  Maybe I can do the learning curve thing next week at night in my hotel.

I expect I'll be flying right over Standing Rock!

Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: K-Dog on December 01, 2016, 10:36:05 PM
Getting back to the RT article, since the web page is easily altered by the journos, they tend to put a rush article up first, and then come back with more details later.  It now looks like this:

https://www.rt.com/usa/368776-house-bill-russian-influence/ (https://www.rt.com/usa/368776-house-bill-russian-influence/)
House passes intelligence bill aimed at thwarting Russia's 'influence over people & govts'
Published time: 1 Dec, 2016 05:17
Edited time: 1 Dec, 2016 16:20

The House of Representatives has passed an intelligence authorization bill containing a provision aimed at tackling what Washington claims is political interference by Russia on a global level.

The 93-page HR 6393 (https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/114-2016/h593), passed by the House in a 390-30 vote on Wednesday, calls for setting up a new, interagency panel to suppress Russia's alleged attempts to "exert covert influence over peoples and governments," the Washington Post reported.

[more]

Normally "Washington Post reported" would be a link too, but it isn't.  I can't find any article at WaPo, which is a bit odd.  Maybe WaPo put it up and took it down again, that happens a lot too.

Anyway ALL media put their SPIN on things, so everything has to be considered in context.  Where Spin turns into Propaganda is when lies creep in.  I think the only lie in all this is WaPo saying Russia interfered in the election, and they were only telling the same lie that Hillary/Congress had already told.  RT reported the election with their spin on it, Wikileaks emails and all.  Fair enough.

As RT reported it really was 93 pages. 



Fair enough you say! That caused me to look this up.

Who first said All is fair in love and war?  I searched and found that It traces its origin back to John Lyly's 'Euphues' (1578). The quote was "The rules of fair play do not apply in love and war. " John Lyly was a Renaissance English poet and playwright.

However when I searched the text of Euphues I could find nothing at all.

That motivated me to keep looking and I also found this, which I like:

Quote
'The cliché, "All is fair in love and war," implies that people can suspend the law or the rules in special circumstances.'

' "All is fair in love and war" - Behavior that is unpleasant or not fair is acceptable during an argument or competition.'

'ALL'S FAIR in love and war, we hear at a tender age. Though this is tempered by schoolboy concepts of fair play and never hit a man when he's down. Fair play is reasonable if you don't mean to win at any cost and the other guy doesn't mean to kill you, but all that goes by the board in any genuine confrontation. Juvenile tussles are one thing; a real fight is definitely something else. And so is real love and real hatred and anything else that's real. You don't learn to play poker by wagering matchsticks. Vae victis, or, as we say in English: Losers weepers.

"All's fair in love and war," quotes Frank Farleigh (1850, by Francis Edward Smedley, 1818 - 1864) and is the popular paraphrase of "Love and War are the same thing, and stratagems and polity are as allowable in the one as in the other." - Miguel de Cervantes (1547 - 1616), Don Quixote (1605 -1615)'

As a statement of principle "All is fair in love and war" is offensive.  As a statement of how things really are; it is a correct observation.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: RE on December 01, 2016, 10:57:59 PM
Seems to have worked OK.  I wonder what that was. :WTF:

Could be we are being fucked with.

RE

Thanks for posting that.

We could be being fucked with or it could just be a glitch.  Regardless onward we march! 

This latest version of SMF seems to have a lot of glitches.  It's not real stable overall.  Hopefully next version will be better.  ::)

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: RE on December 01, 2016, 11:05:13 PM

Yes I agree.  I am going to have software sort my expanded version of 'the list' (which is now 'my list' since I am changing it) so color and position at http://chasingthesquirrel.com/ (http://chasingthesquirrel.com/) will identify the type of site linked.  I am thinking of making a way so visitors can vote on the color and identifying type of a link menu item.  That would be some cool interaction and the worst that could happen is that a few links could get mislabeled.  Right now few people go to my site since I have neglected it after I once again became a working stiff.  I'll get some time to work my code out later this month for sure.  I was thinking about working on the code next week when I have to visit upstate New York (business trip) but I'm probably dreaming and not thinking rationally about how much free time I'll have.  The newspaper pile on my website is sorted alphabetically within each country and each country is color coded.  The colors rotate between countries to give an illusion of freshness once a day.  I'm pretty good at writing code but since I never do it for very long at a time I always have a learning curve to climb before I can get back into the swing of things.  Maybe I can do the learning curve thing next week at night in my hotel.

I would like to see it Tabularized and Categorized, so for each site it is given a category and sub-categories you can drill down.  I don't write code though, so not so sure how hard that would be to accomplish.

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: K-Dog on December 01, 2016, 11:15:38 PM
I definitely can't do anything at the Standing Rock thread.  There are parts of the page I can't select with my mouse but the strange thing is parts of the page I can select.  The edit box is one of them.  I am going to try and use a different machine before I post this and see what happens.......

I posted testing one two three and everything worked fine from the other machine.  However when I first followed the link from our index page to the Standing Rock thread there a screen full of code suddenly appeared and then vanished on that machine.  I have never seen that happen before and I have used that machine plenty at the diner.  Whatever is blocking me is target specific.  Targeted gliches?  I think not but I'll loose no sleep over it.

As browser code is platform agnostic I might have a man in the middle back again.  Men in the middle are not completely invisible and they affect how fast pages respond and load.  Since I have attracted attention in the past I know about this.  That flash of code might have revealed an intruder.

Or not.



Title: Ghost in the Machine
Post by: RE on December 01, 2016, 11:24:14 PM
I definitely can't do anything at the Standing Rock thread.  There are parts of the page I can't select with my mouse but the strange thing is parts of the page I can't select.  The edit box is one of them.  I am going to try and use a different machine before I post this and see what happens.......

I posted testing one two three and everything worked fine from the other machine.  However when I first followed the link from our index page to the Standing Rock thread there a screen full of code suddenly appeared and then vanished on that machine.  I have never seen that happen before and I have used that machine plenty at the diner.  Whatever is blocking me is target specific.  Targeted gliches?  I think not but I'll loose no sleep over it.

As browser code is platform agnostic I might have a man in the middle back again.  Men in the middle are not completely invisible and they affect how fast pages respond and load.  Since I have attracted attention in the past I know about this.  That flash of code might have revealed an intruder.

Or not.

(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/011/515/264/f5575fee76f91777acfc3e3eba84a959_original.png?w=1536&h=864&fit=fill&bg=000000&v=1463683851&auto=format&q=92&s=0c4251dac1b20f57c19c4234134b6097)

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: K-Dog on December 01, 2016, 11:28:41 PM

Yes I agree.  I am going to have software sort my expanded version of 'the list' (which is now 'my list' since I am changing it) so color and position at http://chasingthesquirrel.com/ (http://chasingthesquirrel.com/) will identify the type of site linked.  I am thinking of making a way so visitors can vote on the color and identifying type of a link menu item.  That would be some cool interaction and the worst that could happen is that a few links could get mislabeled.  Right now few people go to my site since I have neglected it after I once again became a working stiff.  I'll get some time to work my code out later this month for sure.  I was thinking about working on the code next week when I have to visit upstate New York (business trip) but I'm probably dreaming and not thinking rationally about how much free time I'll have.  The newspaper pile on my website is sorted alphabetically within each country and each country is color coded.  The colors rotate between countries to give an illusion of freshness once a day.  I'm pretty good at writing code but since I never do it for very long at a time I always have a learning curve to climb before I can get back into the swing of things.  Maybe I can do the learning curve thing next week at night in my hotel.

I would like to see it Tabularized and Categorized, so for each site it is given a category and sub-categories you can drill down.  I don't write code though, so not so sure how hard that would be to accomplish.

RE

Not hard at all.   The hard part is identifying the categories and subcategories to begin with.  All I have to do is assign a key value pair to each link so as a page is built each link is then sent to the right place.  Thats the basic idea.  I already control the color of my links by reading a color value from a link data structure as a link is written to the page before it is sent to a viewer.  This color value is then used by CSS (Cascading Syle Sheet) code to render color.  CSS controls presentation which on a web page is separated from content.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: RE on December 01, 2016, 11:38:06 PM
Well, categories could be drawn from current Diner Forum Categories.

Is it a Politics site, Environmental site, Economics site...etc.

You can add other drill downs, like is it Ruskie side overall or MSM side overall?  Does it seem well researched or is it totally tin foil? A Ranking number 1-5 might be good there.

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on December 01, 2016, 11:47:03 PM
MitM attacks would show up if you use https:// and click on the site identification padlock icon.  DD's Certificate's SHA-256 Fingerprint is
C7:DA:3A:AD:0C:29:75:E1:DB:E4:59:0A:1D:E2:3A:E3:CE:84:EA:04:75:E5:41:EB:92:E2:86:86:FE:6E:D1:9E

Allowing the public to interact with your web page needs careful validation of the incoming stuff.  Hackers suppose that some of those fields are going to be search terms on a MySQL database, so will put in strange terminators like "|" and "\\", and unprintable characters in there, to attack your database.

SMF have been VERY slow to get the problems in v2.0.12 sorted out.  They suggest rolling back to v2.0.11, but there were security bugs fixed in 11 to 12, so that would bring them back again.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on December 02, 2016, 07:16:14 AM
This is an odd one.  Its only source is the FSB and the Finance Minstry. I haven't heard of the FSB going public on ANYTHING before.  The FSB site is in Russian, but a Google Translated version shows basically the same as RT.

https://www.rt.com/news/368976-cyberattacks-russia-financial-system/ (https://www.rt.com/news/368976-cyberattacks-russia-financial-system/)
Foreign intel agencies to launch massive cyberattacks on Russian financial system – FSB
2 Dec, 2016

The Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) has information that foreign intelligence agencies are preparing to launch cyberattacks aimed at destabilizing Russia's financial system, starting as early as next week.

The attacks will also target the activities of Russia’s largest banks.

The cyberattacks, which will start from December 5, will be accompanied by a massive spam text message campaign and inflammatory social network and blog posts – all related to an alleged crisis in the credit and financial system and the bankruptcy and revocation of licenses from major federal and regional banks, a statement published on the FSB website (http://www.fsb.ru/fsb/press/message/single.htm%21id%3D10438041%40fsbMessage.html) added.

Dozens of Russian cities will be targeted in the cyber assault, it added.

It has been established that the servers and command centers to be used for the attacks are located in the Netherlands, and belong to Ukrainian hosting company BlazingFast, the FSB reported.

The FSB said it is taking measures to neutralize the threats.

The Finance Ministry views the situation as stable, according to Deputy Minister Aleksey Moiseyev, as cited by TASS.

“We hope that the banks’ cyber security systems will be able to repel [the attacks], we think that banks are generally very well prepared. However, if necessary, the Central Bank and the Treasury will provide additional liquidity,” the deputy minister said.

The Russian Ministry of Communications has held emergency meetings with communications service providers and key banks, giving them guidelines on how to deal with the cyberattacks, the ministry’s press service told RIA Novosti.

“We confirm the cooperation with the FSB on confronting cyberattacks in the financial sector. We have held two meetings with communications service providers and major banks, we have sent out telegrams with the instructions on what to do in case of attacks and the way those organizations will have to address the ministry and the Federal Security Service,” the ministry said.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: K-Dog on December 02, 2016, 01:24:42 PM
Thanks for the MIM info Palloy.  I do know about data validation and it's importance.  I had a back page where visitors could leave me messages and ithe data file I looked at to see if anyone left me one was always filled wit bot garbage.  A few times out of curiosity I followed some links which bots had written.  I'd get the usual redirects to your computer is infected send us money websites but the last time I followed one I had to reboot my machine to get my browser back.  That satisfied my curiosity.  As to database attacks I avoid them by making all my own data structures. 
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: K-Dog on December 02, 2016, 01:48:15 PM
This is an odd one.  Its only source is the FSB and the Finance Minstry. I haven't heard of the FSB going public on ANYTHING before.  The FSB site is in Russian, but a Google Translated version shows basically the same as RT.

https://www.rt.com/news/368976-cyberattacks-russia-financial-system/ (https://www.rt.com/news/368976-cyberattacks-russia-financial-system/)
Foreign intel agencies to launch massive cyberattacks on Russian financial system – FSB
2 Dec, 2016

The Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) has information that foreign intelligence agencies are preparing to launch cyberattacks aimed at destabilizing Russia's financial system, starting as early as next week.

The attacks will also target the activities of Russia’s largest banks.

The cyberattacks, which will start from December 5, will be accompanied by a massive spam text message campaign and inflammatory social network and blog posts – all related to an alleged crisis in the credit and financial system and the bankruptcy and revocation of licenses from major federal and regional banks, a statement published on the FSB website (http://www.fsb.ru/fsb/press/message/single.htm%21id%3D10438041%40fsbMessage.html) added.

Dozens of Russian cities will be targeted in the cyber assault, it added.

It has been established that the servers and command centers to be used for the attacks are located in the Netherlands, and belong to Ukrainian hosting company BlazingFast, the FSB reported.

The FSB said it is taking measures to neutralize the threats.

The Finance Ministry views the situation as stable, according to Deputy Minister Aleksey Moiseyev, as cited by TASS.

“We hope that the banks’ cyber security systems will be able to repel [the attacks], we think that banks are generally very well prepared. However, if necessary, the Central Bank and the Treasury will provide additional liquidity,” the deputy minister said.

The Russian Ministry of Communications has held emergency meetings with communications service providers and key banks, giving them guidelines on how to deal with the cyberattacks, the ministry’s press service told RIA Novosti.

“We confirm the cooperation with the FSB on confronting cyberattacks in the financial sector. We have held two meetings with communications service providers and major banks, we have sent out telegrams with the instructions on what to do in case of attacks and the way those organizations will have to address the ministry and the Federal Security Service,” the ministry said.

This does not really apply unless Russia is actually not making cyber attacks right now, but for this thought experiment we assume they are not.  The appropriate response in that case by the 'prisoners dilemma' would be to launch cyber attacks as a response to HR 6393.

Nothing in Hr 6393 presents any evidence that Russia is making any cyber attacks.  If I were in congress I'd see proof before I voted to pass it.  I doubt any proof was presented at all (the thoughtstopper of 'national security' would quash the need and desire for proof) and the sheep in the House just all went bbbbaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!

Regardless if Russian lawmakers are as stupid as ours, America has nothing to fear.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: K-Dog on December 02, 2016, 01:57:31 PM
I take that back.  If Russian lawmakers are as stupid as ours America has everything to worry about!
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on December 02, 2016, 02:27:44 PM
I imagine that FSB are always doing enough hacking to have discovered a plot, and they are sending the US a public message that they have done/are doing so.  Of course the whole thing could be a propaganda trick, and when nothing happens on December 5th they can claim they have successfully defended the Motherland.  Great chess players, the Russians.  Think back to Joe Biden smirking and saying their cyber-attacks (in retaliation for Russia's claimed hack of the DNC) will be "at a time of our choosing".  How smart was that?
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on December 03, 2016, 12:16:01 AM
Interesting that the Bill was introduced 2 days before the WaPo article.  Presumably TPTB (especially Hilary) was pissed off at a lot of anti-establishment websites and asked Google what they could do about smearing them.  Google then devised an analytical means of producing the list, and set up the very amateurish-looking PropOrNot website, then Nunes added the new section to the bill, and tipped off WaPo to the list, but asked that WaPo not mention the Bill.

How serious would it be to have Google as an enemy?  Obviously they could easily prevent sites being returned in Google's search results, and stop spidering it.  It could also terminate any Gmail , YouTube and Google Webmaster accounts they feel like, and prevent GoogleAds appearing on the site.  But there are alternatives to Google for all of those services. 

Far more serious would be for NSA to order the web host to take a site down, maybe for being a Russian propaganda site, maybe for ... any reason they like.  The workaround for that would be to have a new domain and web host in a country that wouldn't obey NSA take-down orders - Russia and China/HK, obviously, but also Iceland, Panama.  China/HK needs an Identity Card number. 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-02/house-quietly-passes-bill-targeting-russian-propaganda-websites (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-02/house-quietly-passes-bill-targeting-russian-propaganda-websites)
House Quietly Passes Bill Targeting "Russian Propaganda" Websites
Tyler Durden
Dec 2, 2016

On November 30, one week after the Washington Post launched its witch hunt against "Russian propaganda fake news", with 390 votes for, the House quietly passed "H.R. 6393, Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2017", sponsored by California Republican Devin Nunes (whose third largest donor in 2016 is Google parent Alphabet, Inc), a bill which deals with a number of intelligence-related issues, including Russian propaganda, or what the government calls propaganda, and hints at a potential crackdown on "offenders."

A quick skim of the bill reveals "Title V—Matters relating to foreign countries",  whose Section 501 calls for the government to "counter active measures by Russia to exert covert influence … carried out in  coordination with, or at the behest of, political leaders or the security services of the Russian Federation and the role of the Russian Federation has been hidden or not acknowledged publicly.”

The section lists the following definitions of media manipulation:

    Establishment or funding of a front group.
    Covert broadcasting.
    Media manipulation.
    Disinformation and forgeries.
    Funding agents of influence.
    Incitement and offensive counterintelligence.
    Assassinations.
    Terrorist acts.

As ActivistPost correctly notes, it is easy to see how this law, if passed by the Senate and signed by the president, could be used to target, threaten, or eliminate so-called “fake news” websites, a list which has been used to arbitrarily define any website, or blog, that does not share the mainstream media's proclivity to serve as the Public Relations arm of a given administration.

Curiously, the bill which was passed on November 30, was introduced on November 22, two days before the Washington Post published its Nov. 24 article citing "experts" who claim Russian propaganda helped Donald Trump get elected.

As we reported last week, in an article that has been widely blasted, the WaPo wrote that "two teams of independent researchers found that the Russians exploited American-made technology platforms to attack U.S. democracy at a particularly vulnerable moment, as an insurgent candidate harnessed a wide range of grievances to claim the White House. The sophistication of the Russian tactics may complicate efforts by Facebook and Google to crack down on “fake news,” as they have vowed to do after widespread complaints about the problem."

The newspaper cited PropOrNot, an anonymous website that posted a hit list of alternative media websites, including Zero Hedge, Drudge Report, Activist Post, Blacklisted News, the Ron Paul Report, and many others. Glenn Greenwald penned an appropriate response two days later in "Washington Post Disgracefully Promotes a McCarthyite Blacklist From a New, Hidden, and Very Shady Group."

PropOrNot has pushed a conspiratorial thesis, without any actual proof, that the listed websites have been either used directly or covertly by the Russians to spread propaganda.

While the bill passed the House with a sweeping majority, it is unknown if and when the bill will work its way through the Senate and be passed into law, although one would think that it has far higher chances of passing under president Obama than the President-Elect. It is also unclear if it will be used to shut down websites anonymously characterized as "useful idiots" or subversive elements used in disseminating supposed Russian propaganda.

Those interested can read the full "H.R. 6393: Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2017" at the following location" bill that may soon proclaim much of the internet to be criminal "Russian propaganda" at the following link.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: K-Dog on December 03, 2016, 12:52:13 AM
(http://hilight.kapook.com/image_fb/27/130020-new-763202.jpg)

Do you think they would like to see my new computer?  They might smile at the red star. :)  I could show them my lists and maybe they would show me their ...................

(http://chasingthesquirrel.com/pics/comrade.png)

This is the box which is still not letting me post on the standing rock thread.  When The Soviet Union collapsed my father who was a devout Christian went to Russia to help repair monasteries.  Curiously the thing that the monks needed the most were garden seeds.  Arrogant Russians can boast that Russians grow much of their own produce; but during the years of soviet repression monks could not have gardens.  It was against the law.  They could also not repair their monasteries.  My father had two sons and on his return he brought back a Soviet Union red army hat badge back for each of his sons.  Mine has been in a drawer for years but rather than advertise components inside my new box on the case with free fancy stickers I had a better idea.  I am going to mount a red LED or two under the star and rout the blue power LED to the new red LEDs.  When the computer sleeps it will blink nicely.  Right now I have the blue power LED taped over with electrical tape.  It is way too bright.

And there is nothing fake about this news.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: K-Dog on December 03, 2016, 01:17:03 AM
If anybody posts that Pulp Fiction clip where Christopher Walken gives young Butch the watch as Captain Koons fresh back from Nam.  That uncomfortable hunk of metal that Koons hid up his ass for two years; I'll just say no way!

Those points are sharp.

Title: Big Hard Drives
Post by: RE on December 03, 2016, 01:17:59 AM

Do you think they would like to see my new computer?  They might smile at the red star :)  I could show them my lists and maybe they would show me their ...................]

Show them your newBIG HARD DRIVE.  They'll be suitably impressed.

(http://blog.lexjet.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Biggest-Quadra.jpg)

You want a MINIMUM of 10 TB to even be worth the time of day.  12 would be better.

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on December 03, 2016, 06:56:36 AM
This is basically the same story, but with a few extra bits thrown in.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-02/propaganda-about-russian-propaganda (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-02/propaganda-about-russian-propaganda)
The Propaganda About Russian Propaganda
Tyler Durden
Dec 2, 2016 8

Authored by Adrian Chen, originally posted at The New Yorker, (http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-propaganda-about-russian-propaganda)

In late October, I received an e-mail from “The PropOrNot Team,” which described itself as a “newly-formed independent team of computer scientists, statisticians, national security professionals, journalists and political activists, dedicated to identifying propaganda—particularly Russian propaganda targeting a U.S. audience.” PropOrNot said that it had identified two hundred Web sites that “qualify as Russian propaganda outlets.” The sites’ reach was wide—they are read by at least fifteen million Americans. PropOrNot said that it had “drafted a preliminary report about this for the office of Senator Ron Wyden (D-OR), and after reviewing our report they urged us to get in touch with you and see about making it a story.”

Reporting on Internet phenomena, one learns to be wary of anonymous collectives freely offering the fruits of their research. I told PropOrNot that I was probably too busy to write a story, but I asked to see the report. In reply, PropOrNot asked me to put the group in touch with “folks at the NYTimes, WaPo, WSJ, and anyone else who you think would be interested.” Deep in the middle of another project, I never followed up.

PropOrNot managed to connect with the Washington Post on its own. Last week, the Post published a story based in part on PropOrNot’s research. Headlined “Russian Propaganda Effort Helped Spread ‘Fake News’ During Election, Experts Say,” the report claimed that a number of researchers had uncovered a “sophisticated Russian propaganda campaign” that spread fake-news articles across the Internet with the aim of hurting Hillary Clinton and helping Donald Trump. It prominently cited the PropOrNot research. The story topped the Post’s most-read list, and was shared widely by prominent journalists and politicians on Twitter. The former White House adviser Dan Pfeiffer tweeted, “Why isn’t this the biggest story in the world right now?”

Vladimir Putin and the Russian state’s affinity for Trump has been well-reported. During the campaign, countless stories speculated on connections between Trump and Putin and alleged that Russia contributed to Trump’s election using propaganda and subterfuge. Clinton made it a major line of attack. But the Post’s story had the force of revelation, thanks in large part to the apparent scientific authority of PropOrNot’s work: the group released a thirty-two-page report detailing its methodology, and named names with its list of two hundred suspect news outlets. The organization’s anonymity, which a spokesperson maintained was due to fear of Russian hackers, added a cybersexy mystique.

But a close look at the report showed that it was a mess. “To be honest, it looks like a pretty amateur attempt,” Eliot Higgins, a well-respected researcher who has investigated Russian fake-news stories on his Web site, Bellingcat, for years, told me. “I think it should have never been an article on any news site of any note.”

The most striking issue is the overly broad criteria used to identify which outlets spread propaganda. According to PropOrNot’s recounting of its methodology, the third step it uses is to check if a site has a history of “generally echoing the Russian propaganda ‘line’,” which includes praise for Putin, Trump, Bashar al-Assad, Syria, Iran, China, and “radical political parties in the US and Europe.” When not praising, Russian propaganda includes criticism of the United States, Barack Obama, Clinton, the European Union, Angela Merkel, NATO, Ukraine, “Jewish people,” U.S. allies, the mainstream media, Democrats, and “the center-right or center-left, and moderates of all stripes.”

These criteria, of course, could include not only Russian state-controlled media organizations, such as Russia Today, but nearly every news outlet in the world, including the Post itself. Yet PropOrNot claims to be uninterested in differentiating between organizations that are explicit tools of the Russian state and so-called “useful idiots,” which echo Russian propaganda out of sincerely held beliefs. “We focus on behavior, not motivation,” they write.

To PropOrNot, simply exhibiting a pattern of beliefs outside the political mainstream is enough to risk being labelled a Russian propagandist. Indeed, the list of “propaganda outlets” has included respected left-leaning publications like CounterPunch and Truthdig, as well as the right-wing behemoth Drudge Report. The list is so broad that it can reveal absolutely nothing about the structure or pervasiveness of Russian propaganda. “It’s so incredibly scattershot,” Higgins told me. “If you’ve ever posted a pro-Russian post on your site, ever, you’re Russian propaganda.” In a scathing takedown on The Intercept, Glenn Greenwald and Ben Norton wrote that PropOrNot “embodies the toxic essence of Joseph McCarthy, but without the courage to attach individual names to the blacklist.”

By overplaying the influence of Russia’s disinformation campaign, the report also plays directly into the hands of the Russian propagandists that it hopes to combat. “Think about RT and Sputnik’s goals, how they report their success to Putin,” Vasily Gatov, a Russian media analyst and a visiting fellow at the University of Southern California’s Annenberg School for Communication and Journalism, told me. “Their success is that they have penetrated their agenda, that they have become an issue for the West. And this is exactly what happened.” (Kristine Coratti Kelly, a spokeswoman for the Post, said, “The Post reported on the work of four separate sets of researchers. PropOrNot was one. The Post reviewed its findings, and our questions about them were answered satisfactorily during the course of multiple interviews.”)

In a phone interview, a spokesman for PropOrNot brushed off the criticism. “If there’s a pattern of activity over time, especially combined with underlying technical tells, then, yeah, we’re going to highlight it,” he said. He argued that Russian disinformation is an enormous problem that requires direct confrontation. “It’s been clear for a while that Russia is a little braver, more aggressive, more willing to push the boundaries of what was previously acceptable.” He said that, to avoid painting outlets with too broad a brush, the group employs a sophisticated analysis that relies on no single criterion in isolation.

Yet, when pressed on the technical patterns that led PropOrNot to label the Drudge Report a Russian propaganda outlet, he could point only to a general perception of bias in its content. “They act as a repeater to a significant extent, in that they refer audiences to sort of Russian stuff,” he said. “There’s no a-priori reason, stepping back, that a conservative news site would rely on so many Russian news sources. What is up with that?” I asked to see the raw data PropOrNot used to determine that the Drudge Report was a Russian-propaganda outlet. The spokesman said that the group would release it to the public eventually, but could not share it at the moment: “That takes a lot of work, and we’re an all-volunteer crew.” Instead, he urged me to read the Drudge Report myself, suggesting that its nature would be apparent.

On its Twitter account, PropOrNot, in support of its research, cites an article I wrote for the Times Magazine, in 2015, about an online propaganda operation in Russia. But my investigation was focussed on a concrete organization that directly distributed disinformation. I was able to follow links from Twitter accounts and Web sites to a building in St. Petersburg where hundreds of young Russians worked to churn out propaganda. Despite the impressive-looking diagrams and figures in its report, PropOrNot’s findings rest largely on innuendo and conspiracy thinking.

Another major issue with PropOrNot is that its members insist on anonymity. If one aims to cut through a disinformation campaign, transparency is paramount. Otherwise you just stoke further paranoia.The Russian journalist Alexey Kovalev, who debunks Kremlin propaganda on his site, Noodleremover, floated the possibility that PropOrNot was Ukrainians waging a disinformation campaign against Russia. The PropOrNot spokesman would speak to me only on the condition of anonymity and revealed only bare biographical details on background. “Are you familiar with the assassination of Jo Cox?” he asked, when I asked why his group remained in the shadows, referring to the British M.P. murdered by a right-wing extremist. “Well, that is a big thing for us. Basically, Russia uses crazy people to kill its enemies.”

I can report that the spokesman was an American man, probably in his thirties or forties, who was well versed in Internet culture and swore enthusiastically. He said that the group numbered about forty people. “I can say we have people who work for major tech companies and people who have worked for the government in different regards, but we’re all acting in a private capacity,” he said. “One thing we’re all in agreement about is that Russia should not be able to fuck with the American people. That is not cool.” The spokesman said that the group began with fewer than a dozen members, who came together while following Russia’s invasion of eastern Ukraine. The crisis was accompanied by a flood of disinformation designed to confuse Ukraine and its allies. “That was a big wake-up call to us. It’s like, wait a minute, Russia is creating this very effective fake-news propaganda in conjunction with their military operation on the ground,” the spokesman said. “My God, if they can do that there, why can’t they do it here?” PropOrNot has said that the group includes Ukrainian-Americans, though the spokesman laughed at the suggestion that they were Ukrainian agents. PropOrNot has claimed total financial and editorial independence.

Given PropOrNot’s shadowy nature and the shoddiness of its work, I was puzzled by the group’s claim to have worked with Senator Ron Wyden’s office. In an e-mail, Keith Chu, a spokesman for Wyden, told me that the PropOrNot team reached out to the office in late October. Two of the group’s members, an ex-State Department employee and an I.T. researcher, described their research. “It sounded interesting, and tracked with reporting on Russian propaganda efforts,” Chu wrote. After a few phone calls with the members, it became clear that Wyden’s office could not validate the group’s findings. Chu advised the group on press strategy and suggested some reporters that it might reach out to. “I told them that if they had findings, some kind of document that they could share with reporters, that would be helpful,” he told me. Chu said that Wyden’s office played no role in creating the report and didn’t endorse the findings. Nonetheless, he added, “There has been bipartisan interest in these kind of Russian efforts, including interference in elections, for some time now, including from Senator Wyden.” This week, Wyden and six other senators sent a letter to the White House asking it to declassify information “concerning the Russian Government and the U.S. election.”

The story of PropOrNot should serve as a cautionary tale to those who fixate on malignant digital influences as a primary explanation for Trump’s stunning election. The story combines two of the most popular technological villains of post-election analysis - fake news and Russian subterfuge - into a single tantalizing package. Like the most effective Russian propaganda, the report weaved together truth and misinformation.

Bogus news stories, which overwhelmingly favored Trump, did flood social media throughout the campaign, and the hack of the Clinton campaign chair John Podesta’s e-mail seems likely to have been the work of Russian intelligence services. But, as harmful as these phenomena might be, the prospect of legitimate dissenting voices being labelled fake news or Russian propaganda by mysterious groups of ex-government employees, with the help of a national newspaper, is even scarier. Vasily Gatov told me, “To blame internal social effects on external perpetrators is very Putinistic.”
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: K-Dog on December 03, 2016, 09:35:45 AM
So he said.
Quote
Basically, Russia uses crazy people to kill its enemies.
This is a case of listening to people long enough and they will tell you exactly who they are.   For the spokesman it is a discovery of something he wishes to emulate.  Some kids never grow up.

However contrary to this starry eyed cretin of a spokesman's perception the concept has a long tradition.  Our government learned it from the Brits long ago.  They had an empire first.

(http://www.booksshouldbefree.com/image/detail/Secret-Agent-Joseph-Conrad.jpg)

If you don't know about this book here is an 'In A Nutshell' essay about it.

http://www.shmoop.com/the-secret-agent/ (http://www.shmoop.com/the-secret-agent/)

I don't mind PropOrNot being our 'Stevie'.  Their mental disability we can use and if that's not irony, nothing is.

(http://www.chasingthesquirrel.com/pics/PropOrNot.png)

http://www.propornot.com/p/reference-articles.html (http://www.propornot.com/p/reference-articles.html)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-xrVOXIK3V3g/UZY4TdjxlYI/AAAAAAAAWEM/nkZfng-vlbI/s1600/alice4-zmn.jpg)

Alice's rabbit hole is deep.  PropOrNot has their own website of seductive fatuity.

If the Diner can get promoted by the WaPO the sky''s the limit!
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: K-Dog on December 03, 2016, 10:52:27 AM
Well, categories could be drawn from current Diner Forum Categories.

Is it a Politics site, Environmental site, Economics site...etc.

You can add other drill downs, like is it Ruskie side overall or MSM side overall?  Does it seem well researched or is it totally tin foil? A Ranking number 1-5 might be good there.

RE

Perhaps we should rethink this? 

(http://chasingthesquirrel.com/pics/fnw.png)

The above is from www.propornot.com (http://www.propornot.com)

Deciding between tin foil and well researched goes down the rabbit hole of judgment.  At the end of 'Animal Farm ' The maxim "Four legs good, two legs bad!" becomes "Four legs good, two legs better!".  Going with basic diner categories and only giving them colors with some organization is nonjudgemental.  People have to decide for themselves.  We want to help but if we help too much people become drones.

In Animal Farm the animals became human.  In real life humans become animals and stop thinking.

I want to make a nice list so people have access to information but propornot seeks to limit and restrict the flow of information.  By the twists of fate our lists are similar but the intent behind them is as different as night and day and only how they are presented can make the distinction clear.  Their narrow view identifies websites with information they don't like but these are the same websites that can collect a lot of information.  Some of it good information you won't be seeing anywhere else.  On the surface their mental error sees one article on a website about UFOs and decides the whole website is about UFOs and they don't like UFOs.  The truth is more insidious.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: monsta666 on December 03, 2016, 11:46:32 AM
It says something about society when strong calls are made for Facebook to become an arbiter of truth. If people want to find the truth then one cannot expect it to fall in their lap through a Facebook feed especially seeing as that feed delivers stories that you would agree with. To have an open mind means challenging your opinion to allow a person or entity to make your news selection is to ask to be influenced and fall to some form of propaganda. I do think a big part of this criticism of Facebook and its fake news is a dodge by the mainstream to deflect their failures over their behaviour in the US election.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Petty Tyrant on December 03, 2016, 12:53:29 PM
He was only  helping hillary fight fake news.


http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/12/03/mark-zuckerberg-loses-3-7-billion-following-trump-election/ (http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/12/03/mark-zuckerberg-loses-3-7-billion-following-trump-election/)
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on December 03, 2016, 01:35:50 PM
Looking at DD's CPanel statistics for December, 2 days 7 hours:

People coming to the site using links posted at other sites, come overwhelmingly from Google searches, with Facebook very low:

(https://doomsteaddiner.net/palloy/images/diners.referred.png)

And geolocating IP addresses gives overwhelmingly from US, but also some very unusual places - I didn't realise we were so popular in Ukraine-Romania-Bulgaria-Croatia,   ::) presumably they are using proxies:

(https://doomsteaddiner.net/palloy/images/diners.location.png)
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Petty Tyrant on December 03, 2016, 02:06:45 PM
Looking at DD's CPanel statistics for December, 2 days 7 hours:

People coming to the site using links posted at other sites, come overwhelmingly from Google searches, with Facebook very low:

(https://doomsteaddiner.net/palloy/images/diners.referred.png)

And geolocating IP addresses gives overwhelmingly from US, but also some very unusual places - I didn't realise we were so popular in Ukraine-Romania-Bulgaria-Croatia,   ::) presumably they are using proxies:

(https://doomsteaddiner.net/palloy/images/diners.location.png)

Relevance? They have had years to put out the lists, but they happened only after the election loss. It is not only about anti establishment rhetoric it is about objectivity on trump, but they cant say that outright. We didnt qualify on the critical variable.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: K-Dog on December 03, 2016, 02:30:23 PM
I do think a big part of this criticism of Facebook and its fake news is a dodge by the mainstream to deflect their failures over their behaviour in the US election.

Passing the blame to others is always the plan.

To have an open mind means challenging your opinion to allow a person or entity to make your news selection is to ask to be influenced and fall to some form of propaganda.

It means not following the herd, checking facts, and drawing your own conclusions from those facts.  Doing anything less than that relies on trust.  True trust takes years to build and in general trust is misplaced.

This means:

Rule 1.  Check facts, draw your own conclusions from those facts and question your conclusions.
Rule 2. Trust even trust in your own though processes which are polluted by your own desire can't be counted on.  This means go to rule 1.  No exceptions.
Title: Fake Science
Post by: RE on December 03, 2016, 03:38:33 PM
I have a follow up to this article coming out tomorrow, Fake Science.  :icon_sunny:

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: K-Dog on December 05, 2016, 09:00:34 AM
I published a link to my list on Kunstler's blog this morning.  I had JHK on my list long ago but had removed him for my own reasons having to do with his potential sponsorship of  trolls.  I have now put JHK back in my list.  As a result of unsavory personal interaction I had also removed Dimtry Orlov from my list but hell will freeze over before he gets back on it.

(http://calvinayre.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/hell-freezes-over.jpg)

For a brief period of time I'm getting more hits than the Diner does.  Between seven and ten thousand visitors visit Kunstlers site every Monday.  Of those reading the comments below his rant some of them are looking at my list.  My website will return to reality shortly.

http://chasingthesquirrel.com/ (http://chasingthesquirrel.com/)
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on December 07, 2016, 06:36:58 PM
Washington Post has issued a kind of backdown editorial (see below) after being threatened with being sued for defamation by Naked Capitalism.  And PropOrNot has revised its List, adding some, and removing some.

presstv.com is an Iranian state-sponsored website
sana.sy is a Syrian state-sponsored website

http://www.propornot.com/p/the-list.html (http://www.propornot.com/p/the-list.html)

List v0.0.6: Initial Release
List v0.0.7: [downloaded at 8 Dec 2016]
Removed following constructive conversations with outlet operators:
aanirfan.blogspot.co.uk
abovetopsecret.com
counterpunch.org
nutritionfacts.org
russia-direct.org

Added:
4thmedia.org
nsnbc.me
presstv.com
theunhivedmind.com
sana.sy



http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-07/washington-post-apends-russian-propaganda-story-admits-it-may-be-fake (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-07/washington-post-apends-russian-propaganda-story-admits-it-may-be-fake)
Washington Post Appends "Russian Propaganda Fake News" Story, Admits It May Be Fake
Tyler Durden
Dec 7, 2016

In the latest example why the "mainstream media" is facing a historic crisis of confidence among its readership, facing unprecedented blowback following Craig Timberg November 24 Washington Post story "Russian propaganda effort helped spread ‘fake news’ during election, experts say", on Wednesday a lengthy editor's note appeared on top of the original article in which the editor not only distances the WaPo from the "experts" quoted in the original article whose "work" served as the basis for the entire article (and which became the most read WaPo story the day it was published) but also admits the Post could not "vouch for the validity of PropOrNot's finding regarding any individual media outlet", in effect admitting the entire story may have been, drumroll "fake news" and conceding the Bezos-owned publication may have engaged in defamation by smearing numerous websites - Zero Hedge included - with patently false and unsubstantiated allegations.

It was the closest the Washington Post would come to formally retracting the story, which has now been thoroughly discredited not only by outside commentators, but by its own editor.

The appended note in question:

    Editor’s Note: The Washington Post on Nov. 24 published a story on the work of four sets of researchers who have examined what they say are Russian propaganda efforts to undermine American democracy and interests. One of them was PropOrNot, a group that insists on public anonymity, which issued a report identifying more than 200 websites that, in its view, wittingly or unwittingly published or echoed Russian propaganda. A number of those sites have objected to being included on PropOrNot’s list, and some of the sites, as well as others not on the list, have publicly challenged the group’s methodology and conclusions. The Post, which did not name any of the sites, does not itself vouch for the validity of PropOrNot’s findings regarding any individual media outlet, nor did the article purport to do so. Since publication of The Post’s story, PropOrNot has removed some sites from its list.

As The Washingtonian notes, the implicit concession follows intense and rising criticism of the article over the past two weeks. It was “rife with obviously reckless and unproven allegations,” Intercept reporters Glenn Greenwald and Ben Norton wrote, noting that PropOrNot, one of the groups whose research was cited in Timberg’s piece, “anonymous cowards.” One of the sites PropOrNot cited as Russian-influenced was the Drudge Report.

The piece’s description of some sharers of bogus news as “useful idiots” could “theoretically include anyone on any social-media platform who shares news based on a click-bait headline,” Mathew Ingram wrote for Fortune.

But the biggest issue was PropOrNot itself. As Adrian Chen wrote for the New Yorker, its methods were themselves suspect, hinting at counter-Russian propaganda - ostensibly with Ukrainian origins - and verification of its work was nearly impossible. Chen wrote “the prospect of legitimate dissenting voices being labelled fake news or Russian propaganda by mysterious groups of ex-government employees, with the help of a national newspaper, is even scarier.”

Criticism culminated this week when the "Naked capitalism" blog threatened to sue the Washington Post, demanding a retraction.

Now, at least, the "national newspaper" has taken some responsibility, however the key question remains: by admitting it never vetted its primary source, whose biased and conflicted "work" smeared hundreds of websites, this one included, just how is the Washington Post any different from the "fake news" it has been deriding on a daily basis ever since its endorsed presidential candidate lost the elections?

Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on December 07, 2016, 07:18:06 PM
This is ZH re-publishing InfoWars, who are publishing their own List of Fake News Sites, featuring the MSM. 

I'm no big fan of InfoWars - their stuff is just as biased as anyone else's, and some of it is downright crazy (though UB and AZ might like it).  Their list has Young Turks on it, which I think might be because they have debunked some of Infowars' sillier stuff, not because they are pro-establishment.

You see how tricky it gets?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-07/ultimate-fake-news-list (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-07/ultimate-fake-news-list)
The Ultimate "Fake News" List
Tyler Durden
Dec 7, 2016

Authored by Paul Joseph Watson and Alex Jones, originally posted at InfoWars.com (http://www.infowars.com/the-ultimate-fake-news-list/)

Isn’t it ironic how the mainstream media has the nerve to lecture everyone else about “fake news” when they are the primary source of fake news on a consistent basis stretching back years?

Fake news stories and fake narratives put out by the mainstream media have resulted in deaths, destruction and people’s lives being ruined.

The most harmful fake news is routinely published by the mainstream media. They are the main progenitors of fake news.

– The fake news that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and that Iraq was involved in 9/11, dutifully regurgitated without question by the mainstream media, resulted in hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis, thousands of dead and injured U.S. troops, and the destabilization of an entire continent.

– The fake news that the rebels in Syria were “moderates” who did not have jihadist sympathies and should be supported led to the destruction of Syria, Libya and the rise of ISIS.

– The fake news narrative that the media was balanced in its coverage of the presidential election was completely obliterated when Wikileaks emails revealed that countless mainstream media reporters were in bed with the Clinton campaign, feeding them debate questions beforehand and conspiring with Hillary’s staff to portray her in a positive light.

– The fake news that George Zimmerman was obsessed with Trayvon Martin’s race before the altercation that led to Martin’s death was accomplished by means of NBC deceptively editing an audio tape. This incident stoked racial tensions across the country and laid the groundwork for the violent ‘Black Lives Matter’ movement that was to follow.

– The fake news that produced the “hands up, don’t shoot” narrative, which was proven to be completely fraudulent, led to riots, violent attacks and looting in Ferguson, Missouri, as well as numerous other U.S. cities. Even after the rioting began, the mainstream media continued to legitimize the unrest. Fake news outlets continued to parrot the “hands up, don’t shoot” narrative even after it was proven false.

– The fake news that saw innumerable people accused of rape at college campuses across America, claims that were proven wrong, ruined people’s lives and perpetuated the myth (fake news) that one in five women are raped on college campuses.

– The fake news that George W. Bush served dishonorably during his time in the Air National Guard was broadcast by CBS News with the aid of fake documents. In circulating this fake news, CBS tried to influence the 2004 presidential election but only ended up crucifying their own credibility, leading to Dan Rather’s resignation six months later.

– The fake news that NBC anchor Brian Williams faced enemy fire while helicoptering into Iraq in 2003 was exposed when soldiers who were aboard the helicopter blew the whistle on his lies. Despite admittedly putting out fake news, Williams still has a career in broadcast journalism.

– The fake news narrative that Donald Trump somehow represents the next coming of Hitler has provoked a hysterical anti-Trump hate crime wave across America, with people and property being attacked on a routine basis. The same hysterical fake news narrative was also responsible for violence and riots at Trump events throughout the campaign cycle, as well as assassination attempts on Trump’s life.

– The fake news that Donald Trump had no chance whatsoever of winning the presidential election was proudly pushed by countless mainstream media outlets, with the Huffington Post even predicting that Hillary Clinton had a 98% chance of winning the presidency. When this fake news narrative was completely demolished on November 8, it swept away trust in political polling and the mainstream media to an even greater degree, prompting the backlash that you now see with the corporate press calling everyone else “fake news” when they are the real fake news.

FULL LIST OF FAKE NEWS OUTLETS

– The New York Times
– The Washington Post
– CNN
– NBC News
– MSNBC
– CBS News
– ABC News
– Salon.com
– The Huffington Post
– Rolling Stone
– BBC News
– Sky News
– Financial Times
– Politico
– New York Daily News
– L.A. Times
– USA Today
– US News & World Report
– CBC
– Gawker
– Newsweek
– Time
– Business Insider
– Daily Beast
– VICE
– Yahoo News
– Daily Kos
– Young Turks
– Slate
– NPR
– PBS
– Raw Story
– New Yorker
– Buzzfeed
– MoveOn
– Think Progress
– Media Matters
– Wonkette
– Center for American Progress
– Little Green Footballs
– The Economist

Below is a list of fake news reporters who colluded with the Clinton campaign to promote fake news.

(http://hw.infowars.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/071216fake.jpg)

This list is by no means exhaustive, and there are many reporters within these organizations who do not peddle fake news and have spoken out against the mainstream media’s effort to brand dissenting opinion as “fake news”.

For example, Matt Taibbi (no fan of Infowars), has called the Washington Post’s fake news blacklist “disgusting” and “shameful”.

Glenn Greenwald, who has worked with several of the organizations on this list in the past, also completely eviscerated the credibility of the “fake news list” being used by the Washington Post.

The entire “fake news” narrative being pushed by the mainstream media has nothing whatsoever to do with concerns over people being misled.

If that were the case, the mainstream media itself would stop habitually lying to the American people and it’s trustworthiness wouldn’t be in the toilet.

The whole “fake news” narrative is clearly part of a dirty tricks campaign to pressure governments, Google, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube and other tech giants to censor information that is inconvenient to the establishment, for which the mainstream media serves as a mouthpiece.

We are competing with the mainstream media and they’re not happy about dissident voices challenging their monopoly on reality. That’s why they’re forced to resort to underhanded and deceptive means through which to silence their ideological opposition.

By circulating this article and this fake news list, we are not calling for these outlets to be censored, we are simply drawing attention to the fact that the very same entities who cry “fake news” are the primary sources for the most damaging, harmful and woefully inaccurate fake news stories in the history of modern journalism.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on December 07, 2016, 07:31:03 PM
Naked Capitalism links to this article by Pat Buchanan at The American Conservative (headed by a photo of Vlad Putin ! ):

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/buchanan/when-fake-news-leads-to-war/ (http://www.theamericanconservative.com/buchanan/when-fake-news-leads-to-war/)
When Fake News Leads to War
Patrick J. Buchanan
December 2, 2016

“I have in my possession a secret map, made in Germany by Hitler’s government—by the planners of the New World Order,” FDR told the nation in his Navy Day radio address of October 27, 1941.

“It is a map of South America as Hitler proposes to reorganize it. The geographical experts of Berlin, however, have ruthlessly obliterated all the existing boundary lines … bringing the whole continent under their domination,” said Roosevelt. “This map makes clear the Nazi design not only against South America but against the United States as well.”

Our leader had another terrifying secret document, “made in Germany by Hitler’s government. …

“It is a plan to abolish all existing religions—Protestant, Catholic, Mohammedan, Hindu, Buddhist and Jewish alike. … In the place of the churches of our civilization, there is to be set up an international Nazi Church…

“In the place of the Bible, the words of ‘Mein Kampf’ will be imposed and enforced as Holy Writ. And in place of the cross of Christ will be put two symbols—the swastika and the naked sword. … A god of blood and iron will take the place of the God of love and mercy.”

The source of these astounding secret Nazi plans?

They were forgeries by British agents in New York operating under William Stephenson, Churchill’s “Man Called Intrepid,” whose assignment was to do whatever necessary to bring the U.S. into Britain’s war.

FDR began his address by describing two German submarine attacks on U.S. destroyers Greer and Kearny, the latter of which had been torpedoed with a loss of 11 American lives.

Said FDR: “We have wished to avoid shooting. But the shooting has started. And history has recorded who fired the first shot.”

The truth: Greer and Kearny had been tracking German subs for British planes dropping depth charges.

It was FDR who desperately wanted war with Germany, while, for all his crimes, Hitler desperately wanted to avoid war with the United States.

Said Rep. Clare Boothe Luce, FDR “lied us into war because he did not have the political courage to lead us into it.”

By late 1941, most Americans still wanted to stay out of the war. They believed “lying British propaganda” about Belgian babies being tossed around on German bayonets had sucked us into World War I, from which the British Empire had benefited mightily.

What brings these episodes to mind is the wave of indignation sweeping this capital over “fake news” allegedly created by Vladimir Putin’s old KGB comrades and regurgitated by U.S. individuals, websites, and magazines that are anti-interventionist and anti-war.

Ohio Sen. Rob Portman says the “propaganda and disinformation threat” against America is real, and we must “counter and combat it.” Congress is working up a $160 million State Department program.

Now, Americans should be on guard against “fake news” and foreign meddling in U.S. elections.

Yet it is often our own allies, like the Brits, and our own leaders who mislead and lie us into unnecessary wars. And is not meddling in the internal affairs, including the elections, of regimes we do not like, pretty much the job description of the CIA and the National Endowment for Democracy?

History suggests it is our own War Party that bears watching.

Consider Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Who misled, deceived, and lied about Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction, the “fake news” that sucked us into one of our country’s greatest strategic blunders?

Who lied for years about an Iranian nuclear weapons program, which almost dragged us into a war, before all 16 U.S. intelligence agencies debunked that propaganda in 2007 and 2011?

Yet, there are those, here and abroad, who insist that Iran has a secret nuclear weapons program. Their goal: war with Iran.

Were we told the whole truth about the August 1964 incident involving North Vietnamese gunboats and U.S. destroyers Maddox and C. Turner Joy, which stampeded Congress into voting a near-unanimous resolution that led us into an eight-year war in Southeast Asia?

One can go back deeper into American history.

Rep. Abe Lincoln disbelieved in President Polk’s claim that the Mexican army had crossed the Rio Grande and “shed American blood upon American soil.” In his “spot” resolution, Lincoln demanded to know the exact spot where the atrocity had occurred that resulted in a U.S. army marching to Mexico City and relieving Mexico of half of her country.

Was Assistant Navy Secretary Theodore Roosevelt telling us the truth when he said of our blasted battleship in Havana harbor, “The Maine was sunk by an act of dirty treachery on the part of the Spaniards”?

No one ever proved that the Spanish caused the explosion.

Yet America got out of his war what T.R. wanted—Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Philippines, an empire of our own.

“In wartime, truth is so precious that she should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies.”

So said Winston Churchill, the grandmaster of fake news.
Title: Controlling the Collapse Argument With the Fakery of "Fake News"
Post by: Guest on December 08, 2016, 02:25:56 AM


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Published on From Filmers to Farmers on December 8, 2016






Discuss this article at the Diner Newz Table inside the Diner


 


Or  More Like a Case of Plain Old (Unuseful) Idiocy?


 






As you may have read a couple of weeks ago, the Washington Post published an article entitled "Russian Propaganda Effort Helped Spread 'Fake News' During Election, Experts Say", in which it cited a report by a group calling itself PropOrNot. According to the Post,




PropOrNot’s monitoring report… identifies more than 200 websites as routine peddlers of Russian propaganda during the election season.




In one way or another I'm familiar with about a quarter of the sites listed, perhaps one or two of which I occasionally visit. Two of them have actually published From Filmers to Farmers (FF2F) posts in the past (Truthout and OpEdNews) and a third called an FF2F post hyperbolic (!) while providing a link in its daily list of to-read articles (Naked Capitalism). That aside, what I was interested to see was whether or not there were any blogs or sites in PropOrNot's list that had a history of writing about peak oil and/or the collapse of industrial civilization. After a quick scan I didn't notice anything, but after doing a more thorough look while checking the Alexa rankings of some of PropOrNot's listed sites I did a double-take – "Oil Geopolitics? Say What!?" Scrolling back over to the Js, yup, (Journal of the) New Eastern Outlook was there as well. For those who don't know what I might be getting at, I'll try and explain.



New Eastern Outlook is a site publishing various writers on mostly Eastern issues, is headquartered in Moscow, and has as its leading author F. William Engdahl. Engdahl runs the site Oil Geopolitics, or at least did, as he hasn't posted there since mid-2013 and now regularly posts at another site of his, William Engdahl. But as the Washington Post stated, PropOrNot identified sites that were "peddlers of Russian Propaganda during the election" (emphasis mine), something that Oil Geopolitics hasn't done in over three years, but which William Engdahl has done steadily for the past year, much of whose content would certainly land it in PropOrNot's naughty books. That being so, why the discrepancy? I emailed PropOrNot asking for some clarification regarding this, but as I not very surprisingly didn't get a reply I was left to draw my own conclusions.



For starters, PropOrNot is an anonymous (not Anonymous) group of individuals whom the Washington Post describes as "a nonpartisan collection of researchers with foreign policy, military and technology backgrounds", and whose identity the kind folks at the Post have agreed to keep secret so that the group can "avoid being targeted by Russia's legions of skilled hackers." Okay.



After a Doomstead Diner article pointed out the idiocy behind PropOrNot's suggestion that Russia be excluded from SWIFT, its author, Palloy, then asked:




[W]hy would a news organisation with such an impeccable reputation for good journalism, choose to pick up this story from an anonymous bunch of idiots with a $10 web-site? Perhaps because they are not a bunch of idiots at all, but a secretive cabal of war-crazed neo-cons, and WaPo have been given the establishment nod of approval to promote them.




Which, if you ask me, makes complete sense, but still doesn't explain the Engdahl discrepancy.



Backtracking a bit, the closest that PropOrNot's list comes to covering the collapse of industrial civilization is The Economic Collapse Blog (TECB), a site that has nothing to do with the collapse of industrial civilization, but rather calls out every little vagary in the news as a sign that disaster is once again just around the corner. (No really, this time it really really is! So quick, like, buy something!) No doubt TECB sells a lot of trinkets thanks to its incessant innuendo, but like the saying goes, "a broken clock is right twice a day", and no doubt TECB will be proclaiming from the top of the rafters "I told you so!" when the inevitable economic downturn once again occurs.





Perpetually creamy on the inside (photo by Neal Fowler)


In regards to peak oil, the closest that PropOrNot's list comes in this respect is Oil Geopolitics, and this is where things get even more awry. While pretty much all of the sites on PropOrNot's list are out on the fringes of things, the fringes are by nature where not only the cutting edge can be found but also those out to lunch. Although I didn't so much mind Engdahl's first three books (although with a fair amount of reservations), his fourth book, A Century of War: Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order, is where he started to lose the plot in my eyes, culminating in Myths, Lies and Oil Wars, where things really went over the deep end. In case you didn't know, one of Engdahl's stakeouts on the fringes is as a strong proponent of the abiotic theory of oil, the (cornucopian) notion that oil is not an organic substance and instead supposedly originates from deep carbon deposits present since Earth's formation. As the theory goes (which comes courtesy of a bunch of Russian scientists actually), given enough time oil fields refill themselves with black gold.



With that in mind, and as is stated on the back cover of Myths, Lies and Oil Wars,




As Henry Kissinger said, "If you control the oil you control entire nations." The converse is also true – If oil cannot be controlled the controlling powers lose their control over other nations and the wars that go with it. This is an entirely different account of the world's most important and most political commodity – oil.




In other words, since oil is such a plentiful resource the powers-that-be have little recourse but to maintain a false sense of scarcity in order that they can maintain control over the masses – masses that would otherwise be able to enjoy lives of abiotic cornucopian bliss.



With TECB and Oil Geopolitics in mind, and while there certainly is a McCarthyite tinge to PropOrNot and its list, one could also see the list as a bit of an exercise in controlling the peak oil / collapse of industrial civilization argument, baiting the anti-establishment types to hone in on these broken clock, out to lunch, not-quite peak oil / collapse of industrial civilization sites, which in effect diverts their attention from more worthwhile ones.



Sure, there's a few worthwhile sites on PropOrNot's list, but even though much of the criteria laid out by PropOrNot for inclusion on its list "are common themes here on Doomstead Diner" (as Palloy put it), and even though John Michael Greer was a bit cheekily "disappointed to find that The Archdruid Report didn't make the cut" – and then expressed in the comments to said post that he was surprised that (Russian-born) Dmitry Orlov's site (Club Orlov) wasn't included either – I wasn't too surprised to notice their exclusion from the list of malcontents (even as mere “useful idiots”).



Supposing said (worthwhile) sites have large enough readerships to attract PropOrNot's attention in the first place, to include any of them in the list would have given them legitimacy and drawn attention to them. Might there then be a conspiracy abrew to bring attention to – and thus give quasi-legitimacy to – sites like TECB and Oil Geopolitics while ignoring sites like The Doomstead Diner, The Archdruid Report, Club Orlov, and (ahem) From Filmers to Farmers? Could such sites have been blacklisted from being blacklisted?



Well, I may have entertained such notions in the past, but after the recent U.S. elections I think it was quite clearly shown that this may not be so much of a conspiracy as opposed to idiocy reigning supreme. As just one example, and in case you hadn't heard, in the debate on climate and energy policy Trump's energy advisor did after all state that




It is complicated when you talk about the movement of electricity. You know, neurons go where neurons want to go once they're on the line, right?




Uhhh….



Anyway, according to Ben Norton and Glenn Greenwald in The Intercept,




As is so often the case, those who mostly loudly warn of "fake news" from others are themselves the most aggressive disseminators of it.






The Russians are coming, the Russians are coming –

and the Iranians too! (image courtesy of Wayne Vermeire)



Quite true. But it should probably also be added that for those concerned about energy and collapse issues, the fake newsers have little to no grasp of the big picture here, never mind having much cognizance of our perch on what is essentially a fake monetary system.



So no, no conspiracy here. More like the blind leading the blind, the fakers leading the fakees, and another case of just plain old (unuseful) idiocy.


Title: Re: Controlling the Collapse Argument With the Fakery of \
Post by: RE on December 08, 2016, 03:15:01 AM
I think the reason that Collapse websites don't make the WaPo list of fake sites is mainly because the readership across all the sites is so small.

Based on my surveys and numbers I know from other sites where occassionally I have been Admin or whose numbers can be dug up on the web, I estimate the MAXIMUM number of Global Doomers/Kollapsniks to be around 50,000.  Split this up country by country, and it is REALLY a small constituency!

The same people read the same sites.  Doomers who read JMG read Kunstler and they read Dmitry and Gail.

Probably a good measure of when Collapse has hit the consciousness of the average J6P dimwit is when any one of these sites actually makes the list.

I will make my BEST EFFORT to make the Diner the first one to make the list!  :icon_sunny:

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Surly1 on December 08, 2016, 04:15:38 AM
Two valid examples and MSM fake news, then a list of whole-cloth inventions and assorted fever-dreams. And no mention of Breitbart or Fox on their list, revealing that their extreme-right agitprop machine continues well-oiled and well maintained.

An old saying has it, "Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas." So it is with anyone who sups from the poisoned well of InfoWars.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: RE on December 08, 2016, 04:26:58 AM
So it is with anyone who sups from the poisoned well of InfoWars.

The question is, which is FAKER, Infowars or the NYT, WSJ or Fox Newz?  ???  :icon_scratch:

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: K-Dog on December 08, 2016, 05:20:07 AM
Two valid examples and MSM fake news, then a list of whole-cloth inventions and assorted fever-dreams. And no mention of Breitbart or Fox on their list, revealing that their extreme-right agitprop machine continues well-oiled and well maintained.

An old saying has it, "Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas." So it is with anyone who sups from the poisoned well of InfoWars.

I don't like that old saying.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: g on December 08, 2016, 06:08:10 AM
Two valid examples and MSM fake news, then a list of whole-cloth inventions and assorted fever-dreams. And no mention of Breitbart or Fox on their list, revealing that their extreme-right agitprop machine continues well-oiled and well maintained.

An old saying has it, "Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas." So it is with anyone who sups from the poisoned well of InfoWars.

I don't like that old saying.

Cheer up Fido. Your no normal Pooch. The first flying pooch doesn't lay down on the Grass with fleas, He SMOKES IT!   :laugh: ;D


                                                            (http://stories.barkpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/dog-flying-plane.jpg)
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: K-Dog on December 08, 2016, 06:17:32 AM
Two valid examples and MSM fake news, then a list of whole-cloth inventions and assorted fever-dreams. And no mention of Breitbart or Fox on their list, revealing that their extreme-right agitprop machine continues well-oiled and well maintained.

An old saying has it, "Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas." So it is with anyone who sups from the poisoned well of InfoWars.

I don't like that old saying.

Cheer up Fido. Your no normal Pooch. The first flying pooch doesn't lay down on the Grass with fleas, He SMOKES IT!   :laugh: ;D


                                                            (http://stories.barkpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/dog-flying-plane.jpg)

This is true.  But smoking is not good for you.   Vaping is healthier.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: g on December 08, 2016, 06:45:00 AM
Two valid examples and MSM fake news, then a list of whole-cloth inventions and assorted fever-dreams. And no mention of Breitbart or Fox on their list, revealing that their extreme-right agitprop machine continues well-oiled and well maintained.

An old saying has it, "Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas." So it is with anyone who sups from the poisoned well of InfoWars.

I don't like that old saying.

Cheer up Fido. Your no normal Pooch. The first flying pooch doesn't lay down on the Grass with fleas, He SMOKES IT!   :laugh: ;D


                                                            (http://stories.barkpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/dog-flying-plane.jpg)

This is true.  But smoking is not good for you.   Vaping is healthier.


                                               
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Surly1 on December 08, 2016, 11:57:27 AM
So it is with anyone who sups from the poisoned well of InfoWars.

The question is, which is FAKER, Infowars or the NYT, WSJ or Fox Newz?  ???  :icon_scratch:

RE

The answer is to be an informed consumer of information, which is a constant struggle.

Trust in MSM is at an all time low, and that lack of trust is richly deserved.

Part of that is due to the combined effects of media consolidation and the internet. "Do more with less" chews up jobs and careers every day. Much of it is due to the courtier attitude of the press (see Judith Miller and Iraq) and stenography-to-power. And yet another part is due to careerism-- the get-along-to-go-along attitude in which reporters quickly learn which stories will be covered and which ones spiked, which guests may never be booked, and a sober consideration that, if you want to advance, you have to play the game the way it is supposed to be played. A real self-censorship, mostly to protect a career vector and keep claim to their phony-baloney jobs.

Instead of a handful of newspapers, TV channels, and trusted journalists, we now have a Tower of Babel or a hall of mirrors: thousands of "news™" sources, many of which are simply repeating whatever will get readers or viewers to click. Eyeballs equalling monetization.

People are sick of paying to be lied to, and search for the truth elsewhere (even in pissoirs like this), giving rise to the click economy. And the Google/Facebook Axis of Evil. And Mecedonian content farms living off that ecosystem.

When Les Moonves said that spending so much time covering Republican candidate Donald Trump “may not be good for America, but it’s damn good for CBS,” who could blame people for losing trust in a business with that kind of prevailing ethic?

Truth is, you can trust the NYT and WaPo on some coverage but by no means all. They do have standards; they do check sources. But you almost have to maintain a mental rolodex and evaluate reporter by reporter. I would never trust the MSM on foreign policy, for example. Regarding the Washington Consensus, the MSM is the implementation arm of the Council on Foreign Relations and controlled by agencies identified by three letters.

Here is one example of some terrific reporting plucked from WaPo and another from NYT, and not coincidentally, about the consumption of fake news and its consequences:

Pizzagate: From rumor, to hashtag, to gunfire in D.C.
(https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/pizzagate-from-rumor-to-hashtag-to-gunfire-in-dc/2016/12/06/4c7def50-bbd4-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html?utm_term=.ad2e684c1c73)

and another.

In Washington Pizzeria Attack, Fake News Brought Real Guns (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/05/business/media/comet-ping-pong-pizza-shooting-fake-news-consequences.html)
Title: Re: Fake News
Post by: K-Dog on December 08, 2016, 02:42:25 PM
Sometimes the news is fake sometimes it is not.  It is up to the reader to decide which is which.  Once when there was more competition there was also more pressure to maintain honesty because a competitor could call a liar out.  With news ranks decimated this pressure is much less.  If MSM can get rid of and discredit independent news by lists or by other means, pressure will be gone.  Then only the conscience of sociopaths  can keep the lies away.

If the fake news sites are taken seriously as being all fake the flea bath of competition will vanish and lies will be without consequences. consequences.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: monsta666 on December 08, 2016, 03:11:42 PM
Truth is, you can trust the NYT and WaPo on some coverage but by no means all. They do have standards; they do check sources. But you almost have to maintain a mental rolodex and evaluate reporter by reporter. I would never trust the MSM on foreign policy, for example. Regarding the Washington Consensus, the MSM is the implementation arm of the Council on Foreign Relations and controlled by agencies identified by three letters.

It also helps if you understand the angle under which each news source operates. Once you understand where their bias lie then you can make an informed decision on which circumstances they will be accurate on but at the same recognise the scenarios when they will be less than trustworthy. What is more if you build up enough sources then it is possible to get a somewhat full picture (even if all sources are biased) of a big issue by using multiple sources.

Take the issue of Ukraine as an example: a news source like CNN WILL be biased to the US/NATO agenda so it is prudent to look at alternatives like RT as they will give an opposing viewpoint. We do need to realise however that RT will be biased towards the Russian agenda so the CNN counterpart will offer the other side of the story. Any extraordinary claims made by either side can lead to further research through more specialised sites to evaluate the validity of such claims. As you can see from this simple example understanding the bias of the papers AND the agenda of each individual actor is important in prying the truth out. Failure to understand that each paper has a bias and each actor has an agenda (everyone has an agenda) can lead to erroneous conclusions.

What this exercise tells us is simply relying on one source is folly and we must act as a judge to what the truth is and always practice diligence by fact checking and common sense by evaluating the possible motives for each party. The internet makes this easier than ever but it does require effort which unfortunately most people lack. Fact checking, cross referencing plus understanding the motivations of people/country/company can go a long away meaning that intimate knowledge of each individual reporter is not of critical importance in getting accurate information.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: g on December 08, 2016, 03:59:39 PM
So it is with anyone who sups from the poisoned well of InfoWars.

The question is, which is FAKER, Infowars or the NYT, WSJ or Fox Newz?  ???  :icon_scratch:

RE

The answer is to be an informed consumer of information, which is a constant struggle.

Trust in MSM is at an all time low, and that lack of trust is richly deserved.

Part of that is due to the combined effects of media consolidation and the internet. "Do more with less" chews up jobs and careers every day. Much of it is due to the courtier attitude of the press (see Judith Miller and Iraq) and stenography-to-power. And yet another part is due to careerism-- the get-along-to-go-along attitude in which reporters quickly learn which stories will be covered and which ones spiked, which guests may never be booked, and a sober consideration that, if you want to advance, you have to play the game the way it is supposed to be played. A real self-censorship, mostly to protect a career vector and keep claim to their phony-baloney jobs.

Instead of a handful of newspapers, TV channels, and trusted journalists, we now have a Tower of Babel or a hall of mirrors: thousands of "news™" sources, many of which are simply repeating whatever will get readers or viewers to click. Eyeballs equalling monetization.

People are sick of paying to be lied to, and search for the truth elsewhere (even in pissoirs like this), giving rise to the click economy. And the Google/Facebook Axis of Evil. And Mecedonian content farms living off that ecosystem.

When Les Moonves said that spending so much time covering Republican candidate Donald Trump “may not be good for America, but it’s damn good for CBS,” who could blame people for losing trust in a business with that kind of prevailing ethic?

Truth is, you can trust the NYT and WaPo on some coverage but by no means all. They do have standards; they do check sources. But you almost have to maintain a mental rolodex and evaluate reporter by reporter. I would never trust the MSM on foreign policy, for example. Regarding the Washington Consensus, the MSM is the implementation arm of the Council on Foreign Relations and controlled by agencies identified by three letters.

Here is one example of some terrific reporting plucked from WaPo and another from NYT, and not coincidentally, about the consumption of fake news and its consequences:

Pizzagate: From rumor, to hashtag, to gunfire in D.C.
(https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/pizzagate-from-rumor-to-hashtag-to-gunfire-in-dc/2016/12/06/4c7def50-bbd4-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html?utm_term=.ad2e684c1c73)

and another.

In Washington Pizzeria Attack, Fake News Brought Real Guns (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/05/business/media/comet-ping-pong-pizza-shooting-fake-news-consequences.html)

Expecting to be laughed at from this one, so have your way with me. :-\

My Evil Presence thread is part and parcel of what this topic is about. This confusion, obfuscation, spin, and skullduggery in both MSM and so called Alternate Media is part of what I have been warning the forum about for a few years now.

K-Dog thinks he can separate the wheat from the chaff. Surly considers it part of a business consolidation money thing. RE and others think it is only a question of finding out who can you believe.

Let me beg to differ gentlemen. The Quagmire of Spin, Lies, Deceit, Falsehoods, Twisting, Insinuations, Sophistry, Skullduggery, unintelligible blabber about subjects environmental, financial, meanings of laws, morality, are all part of a Grand Design. They are a another proof of the Evil Presence that has come our way. Laugh if you will but the Biblical Tower of Babel that we find ourselves is the work of Satan and no other. It is Lucifer himself that mastered and spoke with the Forked Tongue, The Split Tongue of the Snake, the Lizard, The SERPENT.


He would have spoke,                                                     

But for hiss returnd with forked tongue                                                   

To forked tongue, for nowhere all transform'd

Alike, to Serpents all (10. 518-21)


 
                                                    (http://67.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_melvue83Yg1qg20oho1_1280.jpg)

                                                                   Satan the Serpent Enters The Garden of Paradise - G Dore


               
                                         

 
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on December 08, 2016, 04:46:04 PM
Satan turns up again !  I didn't know that anybody believed in that sort of thing anymore, but you and UB obviously do.

Can we have a quick poll to see how many Diners have God v Satan as part of their political philosophy? - count me as NO.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: jdwheeler42 on December 08, 2016, 04:58:31 PM
Satan turns up again !  I didn't know that anybody believed in that sort of thing anymore, but you and UB obviously do.

Can we have a quick poll to see how many Diners have God v Satan as part of their political philosophy? - count me as NO.
Hell YEAH, ol' Luke and I go back a long ways  :evil4:


Oh yeah, and to clarify for GO's sake, I am not making fun of your position, Satan is DAMN convincing in his "Bearer of Light" disguise... had me fooled for decades.
Title: God & Satan Existence Poll
Post by: RE on December 08, 2016, 05:00:19 PM
Satan turns up again !  I didn't know that anybody believed in that sort of thing anymore, but you and UB obviously do.

Can we have a quick poll to see how many Diners have God v Satan as part of their political philosophy? - count me as NO.

Your WISH IS MY COMMAND!

Poll now UP at the top of the thread on the Existence of God and Satan.  :icon_sunny:

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: g on December 08, 2016, 05:10:28 PM
Satan turns up again !  I didn't know that anybody believed in that sort of thing anymore, but you and UB obviously do.

Can we have a quick poll to see how many Diners have God v Satan as part of their political philosophy? - count me as NO.

You arrive and you humiliate and obfuscate, the forked tongue appears.

Why have a poll, what's the point to it but to secure your opinion that your part of a much larger group then Uncle Bob and I.?

Why do you need confirmation of your idea, especially in such a small unrepresentative group of folks?

Why do you twist and contort my posting and call it a Political Philosophy? Is it because you cannot deal with or perhaps understand what it really is all about?

Why don't you know how to read yet at your advance age and education Palloy.?

Let me ask you a question Palloy and there is no need to have a poll on it IMO.

Do you think Moby Dick was the Story of a White Whale and a Captain name Ahab whose leg the White Whale bit off.?

How about another, Do You think the Old Man and the Sea was a story about an old guy that went fishing one day and caught a fish to big to bring back home?

Getting my drift Sir.?

How's about asking in your poll instead Mr Palloy, if folks believe in Good and Evil instead, you just might get a different result. Who Knows?  :dontknow:
Title: Re: God & Satan Existence Poll
Post by: g on December 08, 2016, 05:23:22 PM
Satan turns up again !  I didn't know that anybody believed in that sort of thing anymore, but you and UB obviously do.

Can we have a quick poll to see how many Diners have God v Satan as part of their political philosophy? - count me as NO.

Your WISH IS MY COMMAND!

Poll now UP at the top of the thread on the Existence of God and Satan.  :icon_sunny:

RE

Yes indeed. You can always count on the Spin doctor to help you out at any time Palloy. Instantly, if a chance to ridicule GO arises.

He's a wonderful guy, "Save's as Many as He can", always looking to help out he is.

Fuck You Palloy and RE as well. Don't forget to get in your famous circle and jerk off together when posting the results of your Poll.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on December 08, 2016, 05:57:36 PM
Quote
Why don't you know how to read yet at your advance age and education Palloy.?

I do, (and you know it), but I don't know where you are coming from.  I've never argued with a real live believer in Satan before.

Quote
Let me ask you a question Palloy and there is no need to have a poll on it IMO.

Do you think Moby Dick was the Story of a White Whale and a Captain name Ahab whose leg the White Whale bit off.?

How about another, Do You think the Old Man and the Sea was a story about an old guy that went fishing one day and caught a fish to big to bring back home?

Getting my drift Sir.?

No, I'm not getting your drift at all.  Pardon my ignorance on fiction - I'm not well read on it at all.  I have never heard of the second story.  And before you ask, I have never read Paradise Lost either.

Quote
Why have a poll, what's the point to it

Well, you are amongst the people I exchange ideas with, and it puts a completely different perspective on things to know where people are coming from.  Having seen the poll, it doesn't say who thinks what, so that isn't going to tell me what I want to know - it wasn't about winning.  In computer jargon a poll is a quick status report from all the clients on the network.

I had a long and excruciating session with AG, which ended up with him admitting he didn't believe in Peak Oil - I didn't know that, you see, which meant we wasted a lot of time at cross-purposes.  Now I know that he is one of the "unreachables".

http://www.youtube.com/v/452XjnaHr1A
Title: Re: God & Satan Existence Poll
Post by: RE on December 08, 2016, 06:08:45 PM
So far, 3 Votes on the Poll. all different.

No conclusive Winner in this Election so far.  We will need to throw it into the House of Diners to declare a winner.

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Ka on December 08, 2016, 07:59:37 PM
If God is understood as Being itself (and as such not a being), and Satan is understood as a metaphorical personification of a sense of  being separated from God, which sense of separation is the root of all evil, then count me as "God exists and Satan exists". But -- since there are a bunch of  i's to be dotted and t's to be crossed before this can make sense -- I clicked on the last option.
Title: Existence of God and Satan
Post by: RE on December 08, 2016, 08:21:54 PM
If God is understood as Being itself (and as such not a being), and Satan is understood as a metaphorical personification of a sense of  being separated from God, which sense of separation is the root of all evil, then count me as "God exists and Satan exists". But -- since there are a bunch of  i's to be dotted and t's to be crossed before this can make sense -- I clicked on the last option.

I picked Door #6 also Monte.

(http://www.retroland.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Lets-Make-a-Deal.jpg)

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on December 08, 2016, 10:33:30 PM
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-08/hillary-reemerges-slams-dangerous-epidemic-fake-news (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-08/hillary-reemerges-slams-dangerous-epidemic-fake-news)
Hillary Reemerges, Slams "Dangerous Epidemic" Of Fake News
Tyler Durden
Dec 8, 2016

Having disappeared from the public scene for almost a month (with the occasional backwood spotting thrown in for dramatic effect), today Hillary Clinton reemerged from a self-imposed social quarantine, and in a exquisitely choreographed Podesta special, addressed the nation from Capitol Hill. What was first and foremost on the mind of person who the "impartial" media declared had a 90% chance of being America's next president: was it some intense introspection; perhaps it was some idea of how to reform and fix the imploding Democratic party; or maybe it was her finally accepting responsibility for her actions and her loss?

None of the above.

Instead, the one thing that appears to have preoccupied the former Secretary of State is the proliferation of so-called "fake news", a phenomenon she called an "epidemic." It was not immediately clear if she also lumped in the Washington Post into that bucket: recall that last night, in an editorial note to the WaPo's fake, slanderous story about "Russian Propaganda Fake News", the newspaper distanced itself from its primary source, PropOrNot, itself a source of propaganda, when the WaPo admitted it "does not itself vouch for the validity of PropOrNot’s findings regarding any individual media outlet, nor did the article purport to do so."

Speaking on Capitol Hill, Clinton said that “the epidemic of malicious fake news and false propaganda that flooded social media over the past year — it’s now clear the so-called fake news can have real-world consequences." Like, perhaps, poring through thousands of emails which the co=opted and captured mainstream press - especially those who had dinner with John Podesta to offer their PR services to the Clinton campaign  - would not touch, revealing the crony and illicit dealings of the Clinton Family foundation, leading to - among other things - Clinton losing the presidency?

One can almost see why Hillary is not a fan of the "fake news."

While Clinton did not mention "Pizzagate," her comments appeared to directly reference the story that implicated her former campaign chairman, John Podesta, and lead to a man with an assault rifle firing a shot in Comet Ping Pong, the Washington shop that has been implicated in the online conspiracy theory.

"This is not about politics or partisanship. Lives are at risk, lives of ordinary people just trying to go about their days to do their jobs, contribute to their communities," Clinton said. "It is a danger that must be addressed and addressed quickly."

Confirming what the next step in Washington's crack down against the First Amendment and Free Speech will be, Clinton backed the previously noted "bipartisan legislation" that seeks to give Congress more power to respond to "foreign propaganda" coming from Russia.

"It is imperative that leaders in both the private and pubic sector step up to protect our democracy and innocent lives," Clinton said.

And just like that, we know that according to Hillary Clinton, the biggest threat to "American democracy and innocent lives" are a few websites that refuse to be PR tools for whatever the establishment at any given moment is.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on December 09, 2016, 12:39:02 AM
This one is interesting.  It is ZH highlighting a story about the State of Georgia complaining to DHS that DHS scanned the ports of Georgia's electoral computer system.

In case Diners don't know, scanning the ports of another computer is a standard thing to do.  There are standard software products that do that, UMIT is one example.  Normally only servers have ports open, allowing anyone on the internet to connect to the computer - port 80 being open means "I'm prepared to have you connect to my HTTP web server", port 443 being open means "I'm prepared to have you connect to my HTTPS web server", and so on.  These port numbers are standardised, see http://wifinotes.com/computer-networks/networking-ports.html (http://wifinotes.com/computer-networks/networking-ports.html) .  These open ports are all under the control of the computer's firewall.  A PC would normally have all ports closed, although you need one open if you want to allow Skype callers to call you, and another one for VoIP etc.

So a port scan is NOT an attempted hack.  If what Georgia is complaining about is really a port scan then they don't know enough to be on a security team.  ZH doesn't seem to know it either, which more excusable, but still wrong.

The vital pieces Georgia's letters seem to be non-copyable, so go to ZH to read it.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-08/georgia-accuses-homeland-security-attempting-hack-states-election-database (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-08/georgia-accuses-homeland-security-attempting-hack-states-election-database)
Georgia Accuses Homeland Security Of Attempting To Hack State's Election Database
Tyler Durden
Dec 8, 2016

Georgia Secretary of State Brian Kemp is anxiously wondering, as are we, why someone with a Department Of Homeland Security IP address would try to hack into his State's voter registration database.  Even though DHS offered cyber security help to states prior to the election, the Wall Street Journal notes that Georgia was one of the states that specifically denied assistance.

The secretary of state of Georgia is asking the Department of Homeland Security to explain what appears to be an attempted breach of the state’s voter registration database by someone in the federal government.

[more at site]
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Surly1 on December 09, 2016, 05:28:26 AM
Truth is, you can trust the NYT and WaPo on some coverage but by no means all. They do have standards; they do check sources. But you almost have to maintain a mental rolodex and evaluate reporter by reporter. I would never trust the MSM on foreign policy, for example. Regarding the Washington Consensus, the MSM is the implementation arm of the Council on Foreign Relations and controlled by agencies identified by three letters.

It also helps if you understand the angle under which each news source operates. Once you understand where their bias lie then you can make an informed decision on which circumstances they will be accurate on but at the same recognise the scenarios when they will be less than trustworthy. What is more if you build up enough sources then it is possible to get a somewhat full picture (even if all sources are biased) of a big issue by using multiple sources.

Take the issue of Ukraine as an example: a news source like CNN WILL be biased to the US/NATO agenda so it is prudent to look at alternatives like RT as they will give an opposing viewpoint. We do need to realise however that RT will be biased towards the Russian agenda so the CNN counterpart will offer the other side of the story. Any extraordinary claims made by either side can lead to further research through more specialised sites to evaluate the validity of such claims. As you can see from this simple example understanding the bias of the papers AND the agenda of each individual actor is important in prying the truth out. Failure to understand that each paper has a bias and each actor has an agenda (everyone has an agenda) can lead to erroneous conclusions.

What this exercise tells us is simply relying on one source is folly and we must act as a judge to what the truth is and always practice diligence by fact checking and common sense by evaluating the possible motives for each party. The internet makes this easier than ever but it does require effort which unfortunately most people lack. Fact checking, cross referencing plus understanding the motivations of people/country/company can go a long away meaning that intimate knowledge of each individual reporter is not of critical importance in getting accurate information.

Agreed. Yet it is time consuming and exhausting work. Also agree with Roamer's assessment elsewhere that the battleground of this century will be perception management, the efforts towards which are already underway for anyone to view.

Most of the posters here and those who read are at least familiar with the need to sort wheat from chaff. Yet the world is full of people who, once they scan a headline and find their biases confirmed, click "like" and "share."
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Surly1 on December 09, 2016, 05:37:55 AM
If God is understood as Being itself (and as such not a being), and Satan is understood as a metaphorical personification of a sense of  being separated from God, which sense of separation is the root of all evil, then count me as "God exists and Satan exists".

I always assumed one might fairly infer the existence of God as the polar opposite of what could be abundantly seen as examples of Satan's handiwork.

(http://petapixel.com/assets/uploads/2016/12/trumphornsfeat.jpg)
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: K-Dog on December 09, 2016, 05:54:09 AM
If God is understood as Being itself (and as such not a being), and Satan is understood as a metaphorical personification of a sense of  being separated from God, which sense of separation is the root of all evil, then count me as "God exists and Satan exists".

I always assumed one might fairly infer the existence of God as the polar opposite of what could be abundantly seen as examples of Satan's handiwork.

(http://petapixel.com/assets/uploads/2016/12/trumphornsfeat.jpg)

You are giving the forces of chaos too much credit.  What is Trump but a mirror of common understanding.  He is the reflection of collective America's image made flesh.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: K-Dog on December 09, 2016, 06:02:03 AM
Truth is, you can trust the NYT and WaPo on some coverage but by no means all. They do have standards; they do check sources. But you almost have to maintain a mental rolodex and evaluate reporter by reporter. I would never trust the MSM on foreign policy, for example. Regarding the Washington Consensus, the MSM is the implementation arm of the Council on Foreign Relations and controlled by agencies identified by three letters.

It also helps if you understand the angle under which each news source operates. Once you understand where their bias lie then you can make an informed decision on which circumstances they will be accurate on but at the same recognise the scenarios when they will be less than trustworthy. What is more if you build up enough sources then it is possible to get a somewhat full picture (even if all sources are biased) of a big issue by using multiple sources.

Take the issue of Ukraine as an example: a news source like CNN WILL be biased to the US/NATO agenda so it is prudent to look at alternatives like RT as they will give an opposing viewpoint. We do need to realise however that RT will be biased towards the Russian agenda so the CNN counterpart will offer the other side of the story. Any extraordinary claims made by either side can lead to further research through more specialised sites to evaluate the validity of such claims. As you can see from this simple example understanding the bias of the papers AND the agenda of each individual actor is important in prying the truth out. Failure to understand that each paper has a bias and each actor has an agenda (everyone has an agenda) can lead to erroneous conclusions.

What this exercise tells us is simply relying on one source is folly and we must act as a judge to what the truth is and always practice diligence by fact checking and common sense by evaluating the possible motives for each party. The internet makes this easier than ever but it does require effort which unfortunately most people lack. Fact checking, cross referencing plus understanding the motivations of people/country/company can go a long away meaning that intimate knowledge of each individual reporter is not of critical importance in getting accurate information.

Agreed. Yet it is time consuming and exhausting work. Also agree with Roamer's assessment elsewhere that the battleground of this century will be perception management, the efforts towards which are already underway for anyone to view.

Most of the posters here and those who read are at least familiar with the need to sort wheat from chaff. Yet the world is full of people who, once they scan a headline and find their biases confirmed, click "like" and "share."

Understanding a news source bias might help to separate 'the wheat from the chaff' but that in itself will not prevent a jumping to conclusions.  Separating the wheat from the chaff requires work which can't be avoided.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Eddie on December 09, 2016, 06:46:40 AM
If God is understood as Being itself (and as such not a being), and Satan is understood as a metaphorical personification of a sense of  being separated from God, which sense of separation is the root of all evil, then count me as "God exists and Satan exists". But -- since there are a bunch of  i's to be dotted and t's to be crossed before this can make sense -- I clicked on the last option.

Last option as well.

I would say that if humans have a purpose in the way the universe is unfolding, then not only is it worthwhile to discuss this topic, it's more or less OUR JOB to consider the nature of good and evil, and how and why they manifest in our behavior.

In essence, that is our gift. No other species seems to be capable of the kind of "seeing" that humans are capable of....never mind that almost none of us actually exercises that profound ability, or values it especially. Other than poets and a few spiritual seekers that most of society would consider weirdos.

But that's our humanity. No creature other than man can consider questions like :

"Do our lives have meaning? Do we have souls that exist beyond the death of our bodies?"

"Are our lives meant to be a learning process, so that we progress towards some higher plane of existence?"

"Is it better to be the stewards of the earth rather than to just extract as much from it as we can before our species dies off from overshoot? Should we do what we can to preserve the ecological niche that supports higher life forms on the planet, by modifying our own  behavior? Or does it not matter?"

"Is there a harmonious unfolding in the universe that we are influencing somehow...or is such a process influencing us?"

Other animals are capable of certain behaviors I think of as higher order....love,  faithfulness, courage....but they can't contemplate what we think of as "meaning". In my view contemplating meaning, then, must be important.

The Bible talks about 'eating of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil'. To me, this is really a metaphor for the evolution of human consciousness. Without that ability to conceive of abstract ideas...like Good vs. Evil, we're not that different than field mice.



Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Eddie on December 09, 2016, 10:32:01 AM
Quote
Why don't you know how to read yet at your advance age and education Palloy.?

I do, (and you know it), but I don't know where you are coming from.  I've never argued with a real live believer in Satan before.

Quote
Let me ask you a question Palloy and there is no need to have a poll on it IMO.

Do you think Moby Dick was the Story of a White Whale and a Captain name Ahab whose leg the White Whale bit off.?



How about another, Do You think the Old Man and the Sea was a story about an old guy that went fishing one day and caught a fish to big to bring back home?

Getting my drift Sir.?

No, I'm not getting your drift at all.  Pardon my ignorance on fiction - I'm not well read on it at all.  I have never heard of the second story.  And before you ask, I have never read Paradise Lost either.

Quote
Why have a poll, what's the point to it

Well, you are amongst the people I exchange ideas with, and it puts a completely different perspective on things to know where people are coming from.  Having seen the poll, it doesn't say who thinks what, so that isn't going to tell me what I want to know - it wasn't about winning.  In computer jargon a poll is a quick status report from all the clients on the network.

I had a long and excruciating session with AG, which ended up with him admitting he didn't believe in Peak Oil - I didn't know that, you see, which meant we wasted a lot of time at cross-purposes.  Now I know that he is one of the "unreachables".

http://www.youtube.com/v/452XjnaHr1A

Moby Dick is one of those books that everybody quotes, but nearly no one has read. GO read it, because he was educated by the Jesuits. For the rest of us, there's always Cliff's Notes:

The White Whale is one of the best known symbols in American literature. What it represents depends entirely on who is noticing. To Starbuck, Moby Dick is just another whale, except that he is more dangerous. Early in the novel, Starbuck challenges Ahab's motives for altering the ship's mission, from accumulating oil to killing the White Whale. On the quarter-deck in Chapter 36, Starbuck calls it "blasphemous" to seek revenge on a "dumb brute . . . that simply smote thee from blindest instinct!" If Starbuck sees anything beyond that in the whale, it is that Moby Dick represents the captain's madness and a very serious diversion from the ship's proper mission.

The Samuel Enderby's captain, who has lost an arm to the White Whale, sees it as representing a great prize in both glory and sperm oil but seems very reasonable in his desire to leave the whale alone. He says to Ahab, "There would be great glory in killing him, I know that; and there is a ship-load of precious sperm in him, but, hark ye, he's best let alone; don't you think so, Captain?" (Chapter 100) Ahab points out that the "accursed thing is not always what least allures."

To some, the White Whale is a myth. To others, he is immortal. But one significant question is, What is the White Whale to Ahab? Ishmael grants that Ahab views the whale as an embodiment of evil. Ishmael himself is not so sure. The narrator often sees both sides of a question, never more so than in Chapter 42, "The Whiteness of the Whale." There he tells us that Moby Dick's whiteness might represent good or evil, glory or damnation, all colors or the "visible absence of color."

For Ahab's interpretation, it is helpful to consider the captain's comments in the pivotal Chapter 36. There, the captain says he sees Moby Dick as a "mask," behind which lies a great power whose dominance Ahab refuses to accept. Ahab sees that inscrutable power as evil. Some scholars argue that it is not the whale, or the force behind the whale, that is evil; the evil is in Ahab


The Old Man and the Sea was Hemingway's last great piece of writing, the one that won him the Nobel for Literature, late in life. (He might have won it when he was young, for his first two great novels, but they didn't properly glorify war, as Great Novels about war are supposed to do.)

The marlin is more than a great fish locked in an evenly balanced and protracted battle with an accomplished fisherman. It is also a creature onto whom Santiago projects the same qualities that he possesses, admires, and hopes to pass on: nobility of spirit, greatness in living, faithfulness to one's own identity and ways, endurance, beauty, and dignity. As Santiago and the marlin remain locked in battle for three days, they become intimately connected. Santiago first pities and admires the fish and then empathizes and identifies with it. He recognizes that just as the marlin was born to be a fish, he was born to be a fisherman. They are brothers in the inevitability of their circumstances, locked in the natural cycle of predator and prey.

The marlin's death represents Santiago's greatest victory and the promise of all those intangibles he so desperately hopes for to redeem his individual existence. Yet, like the marlin, Santiago also must inevitably lose and become the victim. After the mako shark's attack, Santiago eats the marlin's flesh to sustain himself, completing the natural cycle in which the great creature passes on something of itself to Santiago. Not only are all creatures predator and prey, but all also nourish one another. Allusions to the crucified Christ that were previously associated with the marlin (images that represent suffering, apparent defeat, and the endurance through which one redeems an individual life within nature's tragic cycle) are transferred to Santiago (as critics such as Philip Young and Arvin Wells have suggested). The marlin's brave and unavailing struggle to save its own life becomes Santiago's brave an unavailing struggle to save the marlin from the scavenger sharks.


I always thought that book was what did Hemingway in, finally. Like...he finally understood the human condition, and the knowing of it was more than he could bear. It was the last book he actually wrote to completion and had published in his lifetime.

You're on your own with Milton.  :)

Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on December 09, 2016, 11:01:24 AM
Quote
Eddie: The Bible talks about 'eating of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil'. To me, this is really a metaphor for the evolution of human consciousness. Without that ability to conceive of abstract ideas...like Good vs. Evil, we're not that different than field mice.

Consciousness is at best a fuzzy concept, the evolution of human consciousness is very fuzzy concept, and anything that is "really a metaphor for the evolution of human consciousness" is so fuzzy as to be worthless.  If you decide you want to take "the Bible as a metaphor for ... ", you are set to go round and round in circles for ever.

(https://doomsteaddiner.net/palloy/images/mouse.wheel.jpg)

Contrast that with Euclid, which uses logic and builds, step by step, to a greater understanding which everyone can (and must) agree on, and you will see the utter uselessness of religion.  Saying "I believe in the Bible as a metaphor for ..." is the equivalent of saying "I will believe in whatever I like, and no one can say I'm wrong, even though everyone disagrees with me".

Wikipedia says someone suggests that "The Old Man and the Sea" is a metaphor for Hemingway's career, recognised as being past his best, but triumphing in the end.  Surprisingly, the matter is not settled.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Eddie on December 09, 2016, 11:17:56 AM
Contrast that with Euclid, which uses logic and builds, step by step, to a greater understanding which everyone can (and must) agree on, and you will see the utter uselessness of religion.  Saying "I believe in the Bible as a metaphor for ..." is the equivalent of saying "I will believe in whatever I like, and no one can say I'm wrong, even though everyone disagrees with me".


Who said anything about religion? I didn't.

Euclid's work is elegant and useful, but answers nothing about the questions that interest me.

What I believe in, and whether anyone agrees with me, is largely irrelevant. But the important questions, a few of which I listed, are every bit as important as any of Euclid's theorems, and fuzzy answers are the best answers we're ever likely to get.

I'm not obsessed with getting the right answers. I'm interested in asking the right questions.

Title: Re: God & Satan Existence Poll
Post by: azozeo on December 09, 2016, 12:28:02 PM
Satan turns up again !  I didn't know that anybody believed in that sort of thing anymore, but you and UB obviously do.

Can we have a quick poll to see how many Diners have God v Satan as part of their political philosophy? - count me as NO.

Your WISH IS MY COMMAND!

Poll now UP at the top of the thread on the Existence of God and Satan.  :icon_sunny:

RE


This whole deal revolves around the duality nature of the Age of Pisces. Good Vs. Evil must exist in a mutable Age. There just labels
for the dark & light sides of energy patterns.

In the Age of Aquarius which is a cardinal zodiacal sign the mutable frequencies will dissipate.
A more constant flow from Source will emerge, actually we can already see this happening. 
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Ka on December 09, 2016, 01:04:13 PM

Consciousness is at best a fuzzy concept,...

The concept of consciousness is only "fuzzy" if you think that consciousness has to fit in somehow in a reality that is fundamentally not conscious (that is, if one assumes materialism). But since there is no evidence (and by definition there cannot be any such evidence) that anything exists outside of consciousness, why make that assumption? Especially when making that assumption creates the so-called "hard problem of consciousness".

Quote
Contrast that with Euclid, which uses logic and builds, step by step, to a greater understanding which everyone can (and must) agree on, and you will see the utter uselessness of religion.

Euclid can be completely logical because mathematical objects are totally imaginary. With religion one must deal with experience. I start with the axiom "there is changing awareness of things", and from that conclude that consciousness is fundamental, in that it is much more plausible that consciousness can produce an illusion of nonconscious stuff than that nonconscious stuff can produce consciousness. Science, by the way, or at least proper science that is not infected with metaphysical presuppositions, is neutral on this question.

Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: RE on December 09, 2016, 01:57:14 PM

Moby Dick is one of those books that everybody quotes, but nearly no one has read.

Not everybody.  I've NEVER quoted Moby Dick.  I never got any insight into Good or Evil out of that book, or Hemingway's either.   Hemingway was a more entertaining writer than Melville though.

Good and Evil represent a Binary in the world, like Up and Down, Right & Left, Dark & Light, etc.  They're opposites.  You can tell they exist  because Dick Cheney exists and Professor Moriarty exists for the Evil side, and most of the rest of the Diners are on the Good side.

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Eddie on December 09, 2016, 02:33:10 PM
I started, but never finished, both of those books. Melville moves too slow for me to enjoy the story.

Reading The Old Man and the Sea was downright painful. It's very different than any other Hemingway I've read, and I've read most of the novels. It reminds me of Death In the Afternoon more than any of the others.

 Hemingway was obsessed with properly describing the real details of what fishing for a billfish with a hand line from a small boat was like, and he nailed it...but it's excruciating.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on December 09, 2016, 03:56:35 PM
I used Euclid as an example of logical thinking, not as the Euclidean Elements being the answer to all our questions.  I try, by example, to educate people on how to do it, but they insist on saying "Bullshit, it is all Satan at work, and if you don't agree you are an idiot or in league with Satan himself, like Cheney/Obama/Clinton/Trump are."

Has the Diner ever tried to find one non-trivial thing that everyone agrees on?  Would you like to try now?  - no, I thought not.  Far more fun to just gabble on with what YOU think is the answer is.   :'(
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on December 09, 2016, 05:55:29 PM
Can you give any URLs for these Podesta emails?
I went to https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/ and searched for "spirit cooking" and then "warm pool" and got nothing.
"pizza" got 5,000+ hits, I looked at the first 50, I read the first one (a long chain about organising dates for a Hillary meet-and-great event at some pizza place, not Ping Pong) seemed harmless enough.  Podesta is also bombarded with pizza joint advertising.

Where does the code-word translation come from?  Anything could mean anything, but where is the key?
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on December 10, 2016, 12:19:03 AM
UB, Thanks for that - seems pretty far-fetched to me.  Just add 4chan, where the aim to be as outrageous as possible, and away you go.  The child "art" is properly sick, but this is the US and there are a lot of weird people there.

There weren't any Satanists before 1966.  Before that, being a Satanist was something you accused other people of being before you burned them at the stake.  Now it is trial by Twitter trolls.  It's not surprising that public figures with a bit of media influence try very hard to get this stuff censored.  If you are a filthy capitalist media owner, often lobbying for favours to further your own career, you might just twig for yourself that publishing stories about important people being paedophiles is not a good move.

Harking back to your earlier post, which again I found completely dis-jointed and incomprehensible, was this sentence "A  big error is believing that the communist ideal is truly atheist, when it is really satanist."  Is that you speaking, or is it related to the previous sentence ?

What I am trying to get at is how much of your political thinking has this as its foundation, or is it just another idea that might be true, but might not?

There are plenty of dyed in the wool Christian Capitalists that think Socialism is bad, and I suppose they therefore attack it as being ... (what's worst thing I can think of) ...Satanism !   Marx invented Socialism, so naturally Marx was a Satanist.  Although he was long dead and buried before the Bolshevik Revolution, the Bolsheviks turned out to be all Satanists too.  It couldn't be that they had a genuine grievance against the Russian Orthodox Church, could it?  This is what it looks like now, but I expect it wasn't all that different 100 years ago. (note the baby-sized coffin made to look like a seat behind the big shmooze - Satanists the lot of them).

(https://doomsteaddiner.net/palloy/images/Patriarch.Kirill.jpg)

As for "pop music", that's designed (by capitalist recording studios) to be outrageous, to shock, often with macabre undertones.  When I were a lad it was long hair and smoking pot !

(http://www.deathmetal.org/wp-content/uploads/metal_is_for_fun_trends_mosh_and_core-600x471.jpg)
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: RE on December 10, 2016, 12:52:04 AM
Harking back to your earlier post, which again I found completely dis-jointed and incomprehensible

A UB Trademark!  lol.  You need to be fluent in Swahili and Sanskrit and translate it through them into Chinese and then back to English, then it makes sense.

Fortunately, since we can't make sense of this stuff, probably nobody else can either.

UB is highly focused on sexual deviancy.  The bulk of his posting is related to this topic.  This likely explains his chosen career.

Now, I would not be the least bit surprised if the Clintons were sexual deviants, but trying to read "code words" into the Podesta emails is just insane.  Without some type of Codex you could apply any meaning at all to any word at all.

Now I will go and Bake a Slice of Pizza purchased at the Deli Counter at Walmart with Mushrooms and Black Olives and X-tra Cheese added.

Please decode this sentence for me UB.  ::)

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: RE on December 10, 2016, 04:58:39 AM
If you want to dismiss that conclusion you must adress and explain ALL the evidence.

What "evidence" ?  So far, all I got is a lot of bullshit and contradictory statements made by various PTB and speculation made by Conspiracy Theorists.

Please get back to me when you have something besides obsessive sexual perversion to write on here.

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: g on December 10, 2016, 05:18:34 AM
Harking back to your earlier post, which again I found completely dis-jointed and incomprehensible

A UB Trademark!  lol.  You need to be fluent in Swahili and Sanskrit and translate it through them into Chinese and then back to English, then it makes sense.

Fortunately, since we can't make sense of this stuff, probably nobody else can either.

UB is highly focused on sexual deviancy.  The bulk of his posting is related to this topic.  This likely explains his chosen career.

Now, I would not be the least bit surprised if the Clintons were sexual deviants, but trying to read "code words" into the Podesta emails is just insane.  Without some type of Codex you could apply any meaning at all to any word at all.

Now I will go and Bake a Slice of Pizza purchased at the Deli Counter at Walmart with Mushrooms and Black Olives and X-tra Cheese added.

Please decode this sentence for me UB.  ::)

RE

Other sites were all discussing this scandal for the past 3 weeks. Sites full of many intelligent and sober posters. Azozeo the teetotaller posted on pizzagate here in a timely manner, but that doesnt make him obsessed with deviancy. Neither does it make the rest of the net obsessed with deviancy, to be discussing it and unanimously coming to the conclusion that it is real.
The evidence is overwhelming to everyone who examines it, there are no debates between people who have examined it about whether or not the evidence is conclusive. If there was significant doubt,  the MSM would not print damage control and the Pope and Hillary would not be calling it fake news without giving any reasons for it being fake, they would explain why it is fake. Only communists in service to Glorious Revolutionary Party of Hillary  claim that these emails are not code for paedophilia. The evidence
includes not just the emails, but many other things painting an overall damning picture.

Your sentence regarding cooking is totally irrelevant. If you want to dismiss the emails in question, you need to explain those, which are nonsensical except in context of a paedophile ring. You will note that anyone else resorting to the dismissal that we who believe the emails are not benign are gullible trolls, also does not ever attempt to explain the emails or other evidence. Everything about these people points to their being a paedophile ring. If you want to dismiss that conclusion you must adress and explain ALL the evidence.

Thank You Unc.  Hillary alone neglecting the cardinal rule of false rumors and baloney, TSTFU and not give massive publicity to it and show it's importance by making a rare public pronouncement. This is a lady that has spent her life blowing farts in the face of critics and even refused to hold press conferences while running for POTUS. How unusual to try and dismiss her and Podesta's pact with Satan.

While having my doubts at the beginning of these revelations as being more political mud, articles on Time magazine about this sick prick Podesta and his artwork that he has hanging in his office was enough for me. The art hanging in the pizza joints as well as the art sent in by patrons convinced me that these people were indeed disciples of Satan and deviants, as well as power crazed loonies.

As to the attacks and ridicule against your excellent time consuming contributions, and the calling of you a man obsessed with deviancy, let me apologize for them. Let me assure you they are not capable of understanding your desire to present the truth as you understand it.

Their Lefty's after all, ridicule of religion and Satan, people of faith as retards, and hatred of all who are not like them is their hallmark.

Their Hypocrisy is also legendary. If you want to see if they really believe in a Satan, mention Donald Trump.

The shrieks of horror and exclamations of Satan overtaking the land are squealed through their government teat sucking mouths.

Hillary, Podesta, Huma wife of the infamous pervert Weiner, Slick Willie, the whole crew are just wonderful folk.

Let me post a picture of Satan for you Unc, The Satan of the Left, The Embodiment of all EVIL.


                                                          (https://www.bellanaija.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Donald-Trump-TIME-Person-of-the-Year-1-600x800.jpg)
 
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: RE on December 10, 2016, 06:07:56 AM
If you think  the majority of people are sexually obsessed conspiracy theorists

I never said that.  I said YOU are a sexually obsessed conspiracy theorist and you will latch onto anything from any website that has the least bit of sexual deviancy to chew on.

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on December 10, 2016, 06:45:14 AM
Quote
UB: If you want to dismiss the emails in question, you need to explain those, which are nonsensical except in context of a pedophile ring.

Well I can remember enough of the third one.  It was about asking how many people were coming to the event/party, and they wanted to know how many slices to cut the slice into.  A bit odd.  But you only have to change one word "slice" into "pizza" and it all becomes normal and grammatical.  The person typing the email typed the wrong word.  And no way did the verbatim email imply anything sexual, let alone pedophilic going on.  It was certainly ungrammatical, but often you are too.

With the cheese one, I got the impression that Podesta usually sent them a Xmas hamper with pasta and sausage, and he had just sent them a Xmas hamper with cheeses.  They were gushingly thankful, like everyone is about Xmas presents.  No pedophile rings there, unless you deliberately set about constructing one.

The amazing thing about the Podesta emails is the fact that serious campaign business and trivial party arrangement and supposedly a pedophile ring and advertising spam were all mixed together in a GMail account, and none of them had been deleted for years. 

Which brings us back to cyber-security, at last.  DON'T use GMail - Google is a major partner in the NSA's PRISM program so everything on GMail is made available to NSA/FBI/CIA.  Likewise Facebook, Microsoft, Yahoo, Twitter, AOL, etc.  If you want a secure email address, PM me.  Delete things you don't want to keep. DON'T let somebody else be your archive for you, do it yourself, and keep it in an encrypted folder to which only you have the password, and make the password a strong one.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: jdwheeler42 on December 10, 2016, 07:20:55 AM
Which brings us back to cyber-security, at last.  DON'T use GMail - Google is a major partner in the NSA's PRISM program so everything on GMail is made available to NSA/FBI/CIA.  Likewise Facebook, Microsoft, Yahoo, Twitter, AOL, etc.
Personally, I kind of disagree.  DO use Gmail, Yahoo, Facebook, etc.... and then fill them with spam and other trivia.  Give them lots of garbage to wade through.

But for important stuff, yeah, you're quite correct.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: jdwheeler42 on December 10, 2016, 07:30:29 AM
In essence, that is our gift. No other species seems to be capable of the kind of "seeing" that humans are capable of....never mind that almost none of us actually exercises that profound ability, or values it especially. Other than poets and a few spiritual seekers that most of society would consider weirdos.

But that's our humanity. No creature other than man can consider questions like :

"Do our lives have meaning? Do we have souls that exist beyond the death of our bodies?"

"Are our lives meant to be a learning process, so that we progress towards some higher plane of existence?"

"Is it better to be the stewards of the earth rather than to just extract as much from it as we can before our species dies off from overshoot? Should we do what we can to preserve the ecological niche that supports higher life forms on the planet, by modifying our own  behavior? Or does it not matter?"

"Is there a harmonious unfolding in the universe that we are influencing somehow...or is such a process influencing us?"

Other animals are capable of certain behaviors I think of as higher order....love,  faithfulness, courage....but they can't contemplate what we think of as "meaning". In my view contemplating meaning, then, must be important.

The Bible talks about 'eating of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil'. To me, this is really a metaphor for the evolution of human consciousness. Without that ability to conceive of abstract ideas...like Good vs. Evil, we're not that different than field mice.

A Dog
That Dies
And Knows
That It Dies
Like A Dog
Is A
Man

Sorry I've forgotten the author of that little poem, and Google is absolutely no help.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: jdwheeler42 on December 10, 2016, 07:50:32 AM
Contrast that with Euclid, which uses logic and builds, step by step, to a greater understanding which everyone can (and must) agree on, and you will see the utter uselessness of religion.

Contrast that with Ptolemy, which uses logic and builds, step by step, a greater picture of the universe, and you will see the danger the most obvious and common-sense premises pose.  Like, you can tell when you are moving.  (Or, for the modern day, every effect is preceded by its cause.)   Given that, the Earth MUST be the center of a small Universe.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: K-Dog on December 10, 2016, 11:49:44 AM
Which brings us back to cyber-security, at last.  DON'T use GMail - Google is a major partner in the NSA's PRISM program so everything on GMail is made available to NSA/FBI/CIA.  Likewise Facebook, Microsoft, Yahoo, Twitter, AOL, etc.
Personally, I kind of disagree.  DO use Gmail, Yahoo, Facebook, etc.... and then fill them with spam and other trivia.  Give them lots of garbage to wade through.

But for important stuff, yeah, you're quite correct.

If somebody wishes some of that garbage you give them to wade through might appear all by itself you having nothing to do with it.  We can find out that JD likes to watch little girls walk around around the room dressed only in high heels stomping cockroaches.  If that happens your garbage will be fake newz.  Perhaps only 60% will believe it but the number of true believers will get bigger every day. 

I have a theory, sometimes and all too frequently, the brain finds it easier to trust and accept nonsense rather than look at it and reject it. 

Try and prove you don't get a big tickle out of bugs, high heels and young girls.  Perhaps it might not be so easy to do.

(http://www.crushfeet.com/images/previewMain/Karo-000354-2.jpg)

Some true believer might even just show up in your life and he won't be looking for a pizza and everything we do digitally can be turned against us if the motivation is there to do it.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: jdwheeler42 on December 10, 2016, 01:45:23 PM
everything we do digitally can be turned against us if the motivation is there to do it.
ABSOLUTELY!

...and having an encrypted folder of private emails proves you have something to hide.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on December 10, 2016, 02:03:11 PM
Quote
JD:  Contrast that with Ptolemy, which uses logic and builds, step by step, a greater picture of the universe, and you will see the danger the most obvious and common-sense premises pose.

Ptolemy used the Scientific Method - take lots of measurements and construct a mathematical model that fits, then predict from the model and test if future measurements fit, fine tune the model till it does.  Not quite the same thing as logic.  Nevertheless for the 2nd century he did a remarkable job, which wasn't bettered for 1,400 years.  He not only knew the Earth was spherical and its approximate size, but produced tables of the positions of the Sun, Moon, planets and stars at any time - a true almanac.  He also produced a map of the known world, stretching from western Africa to China, and would have known how much of the globe that was.

(https://doomsteaddiner.net/palloy/images/Ptolemy.World.Map.jpg)

Moreover, he would have instantly recognised the correctness of the Copernican Model when it came along, and the Newtonian Model with its mathematical beauty.  "WTF - the Earth and planets go round the Sun in elliptical orbits under the control of an inverse square law.  Why didn't I think of that?"
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: g on December 10, 2016, 02:50:48 PM


                                                  (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzVbV6JVQAEk82i.jpg)
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: g on December 10, 2016, 02:56:57 PM


                                            (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cy2_ohmVIAAOddq.jpg)
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: jdwheeler42 on December 10, 2016, 03:18:21 PM
Ptolemy used the Scientific Method - take lots of measurements and construct a mathematical model that fits, then predict from the model and test if future measurements fit, fine tune the model till it does.  Not quite the same thing as logic.  Nevertheless for the 2nd century he did a remarkable job, which wasn't bettered for 1,400 years.  He not only knew the Earth was spherical and its approximate size, but produced tables of the positions of the Sun, Moon, planets and stars at any time - a true almanac.  He also produced a map of the known world, stretching from western Africa to China, and would have known how much of the globe that was.

Moreover, he would have instantly recognised the correctness of the Copernican Model when it came along, and the Newtonian Model with its mathematical beauty.  "WTF - the Earth and planets go round the Sun in elliptical orbits under the control of an inverse square law.  Why didn't I think of that?"
Thank you!  You did a wonderful job of explaining my point  :LolLolLolLol:  which was that no matter how good your reasoning is, no matter how well you construct your model, if you start out with bad data, you are likely to come out with bad results.  And half the reason it took 1400 years to come up with better results was waiting for technological improvements in the ability to make measurements; the other half was accumulating 1400 years worth of error data.

It amazes/amuses me how people so adamantly opposed to religion can have such blind faith in the power of the human intellect.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: g on December 10, 2016, 03:28:58 PM
Ptolemy used the Scientific Method - take lots of measurements and construct a mathematical model that fits, then predict from the model and test if future measurements fit, fine tune the model till it does.  Not quite the same thing as logic.  Nevertheless for the 2nd century he did a remarkable job, which wasn't bettered for 1,400 years.  He not only knew the Earth was spherical and its approximate size, but produced tables of the positions of the Sun, Moon, planets and stars at any time - a true almanac.  He also produced a map of the known world, stretching from western Africa to China, and would have known how much of the globe that was.

Moreover, he would have instantly recognised the correctness of the Copernican Model when it came along, and the Newtonian Model with its mathematical beauty.  "WTF - the Earth and planets go round the Sun in elliptical orbits under the control of an inverse square law.  Why didn't I think of that?"
Thank you!  You did a wonderful job of explaining my point  :LolLolLolLol:  which was that no matter how good your reasoning is, no matter how well you construct your model, if you start out with bad data, you are likely to come out with bad results.  And half the reason it took 1400 years to come up with better results was waiting for technological improvements in the ability to make measurements; the other half was accumulating 1400 years worth of error data.

It amazes/amuses me how people so adamantly opposed to religion can have such blind faith in the power of the human intellect.

Just wonderful JD, and in your famous kindly, well mannered style.

Wish I possessed your courtly manners when dealing with the Dim.  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on December 10, 2016, 04:23:43 PM
It is a light-hearted way of saying "we've only got so much food here, so if you're bringing a crowd, bring some more food as well."  It would be an odd thing to say if the location was a pizza restaurant, or in a city, but it was an isolated vacation spot by a lake.

Quote
JD: It amazes/amuses me how people so adamantly opposed to religion can have such blind faith in the power of the human intellect.

I don't have blind faith in anything, THAT'S the point.  Show me a more accurate model or a more elegant algorithm and I will toss the old one out the window.  The Newtonian model lasted for 350 years, and is still used today for ordinary world situations, but as soon as the Einsteinian model came along, it was accepted throughout the scientific world.

F = m.a   where m is a constant, is wrong.
mv = m0 / SQUAREROOT(1 - (v2/c2))  fixes it.

But if you suggest a fundamental change like that to the prevailing religion, you will be burned at the stake.

Have you ever wondered why it is that some countries are all Catholic, and some are all Muslim, etc?  How does it turn out that the next generation always considers all religions and decides for itself that the religion of their parents is best, and their God is the One True God, and will happily go to war against the heathen? - indoctrination, that's how.  That's what is so insidious about religion. Plus the fact that the indoctrinators live comfortably surrounded by wealth and political power, while still having the morals no better (and often worse) than the rest of society.

Take religion out of society and people still live their lives OK, their morals aren't corrupted, or at least no worse than before.  The framers of the US Constitution knew that.  Unfortunately they didn't go the extra step and forbid religion, whereas the Bolsheviks did.  The Soviet Union thus ended up having women's rights far earlier, had far more ethnic equality across their vast empire, free education and medical services, far fewer people in jail than the US.
Title: Re: Fake Newz - Here's the Real Skinny on Your Free Commie Medical Palloy
Post by: g on December 10, 2016, 04:45:00 PM

In Moscow in 1996, a Doctor’s Visit Changed History


                                            (https://static01.nyt.com/images/2007/05/01/science/01docs.xlarge1.jpg)


                                             (https://static01.nyt.com/images/2007/04/30/health/01docs.large2.jpg)

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/01/health/01docs.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/01/health/01docs.html)  :icon_study:

   
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: RE on December 10, 2016, 05:30:17 PM
Literal pizzas are cut into 8 slices.

Depends on the size of the Pizza and how many people are sharing it.  8 is typical, but on smaller pizzas 6 is a common slicing pattern.  When we had Pizza Parties for the gymmies, we would buy large pies and have them sliced into 12s.  Also, you can buy rectangular pizzas and cut them up into small squares.  Usually you get about 24 from a 6X4 grid.

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: jdwheeler42 on December 10, 2016, 06:44:00 PM
Literal pizzas are cut into 8 slices.
Depends on the size of the Pizza and how many people are sharing it.  8 is typical, but on smaller pizzas 6 is a common slicing pattern.  When we had Pizza Parties for the gymmies, we would buy large pies and have them sliced into 12s.  Also, you can buy rectangular pizzas and cut them up into small squares.  Usually you get about 24 from a 6X4 grid.
At Fox's Pizza in Ridgway, PA, they have a 52-slice pizza....

(http://ridgwayfoxspizza.com/sitebuilder/images/foxs_grand_daddy-268x170.jpg)
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: RE on December 10, 2016, 06:50:54 PM
"It is a light-hearted way of saying "we've only got so much food here, so if you're bringing a crowd, bring some more food as well."  It would be an odd thing to say if the location was a pizza restaurant, or in a city, but it was an isolated vacation spot by a lake."

Because the political elite not only cant use the right word, but are also on a tight budget.  You stand rows of dominos on pasta,  cheese and hotdogs you get for xmas all the time,  everyone does. I get it, Glorious Revolutionary Republic of Party Politburo MSM has taken a position to protect Pedosta.

What?

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: JRM on December 10, 2016, 06:57:52 PM
 God Exists and Satan Exists
 God does not Exist but Satan does
 God Exists but Satan does not
 Neither God or Satan Exists
 Determinating whether God or Satan Eists is impossible, so further discussion on the topic is a waste of time
 Discussion of the presence of God or Satan is worthwhile, since one or the other or both might exist



A false choice is no choice at all.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: RE on December 10, 2016, 07:08:38 PM
God Exists and Satan Exists
 God does not Exist but Satan does
 God Exists but Satan does not
 Neither God or Satan Exists
 Determinating whether God or Satan Eists is impossible, so further discussion on the topic is a waste of time
 Discussion of the presence of God or Satan is worthwhile, since one or the other or both might exist

A false choice is no choice at all.

I tried to cover all possible choices.  Is there another choice I should have included? ???  :icon_scratch:

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: jdwheeler42 on December 10, 2016, 07:19:50 PM
I don't have blind faith in anything, THAT'S the point.  Show me a more accurate model or a more elegant algorithm and I will toss the old one out the window.  The Newtonian model lasted for 350 years, and is still used today for ordinary world situations, but as soon as the Einsteinian model came along, it was accepted throughout the scientific world.

F = m.a   where m is a constant, is wrong.
mv = m0 / SQUAREROOT(1 - (v2/c2))  fixes it.
Um, not quite...
1. That only works in an inertial frame of reference.
2. There are no inertial frames of reference anywhere in the universe.

People think Einstein is a genius because he came up with the Theory of Relativity, but that's not right.  He came up with TWO Theories of Relativity.  They get lumped together because a single person came up with both.  But the General Theory of Relativity is as far above the Special Theory of Relativity as the Special Theory is above Newtonian Mechanics.  To come up with either is enough genius for one lifetime, but to have come up with one, and then seen through the problems with it, and come up with the other, that is what makes Einstein's genius so unprecedented.   So much so that 100 years later, even the brightest people have trouble coming to grips with the implications of his General Theory.

But you know the really funny part?

ABSOLUTELY NONE OF IT ACTUALLY TRULY WORKS IN THE REAL WORLD.  No matter how accurately and precisely you calculate motion, using Newtonian or relativistic equations, you will, sooner or later, get errors.  Much, much sooner if you are moving through Jello, much, much later if you are moving through intergalactic space.  But physicists have performed the magical act of naming something to assume control over it, calling the error "friction".  And while they can come up with explanations for it, it is still an ad hoc solution; there are no equations to derive friction from first principles, coefficients of friction have to be determined experimentally.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: RE on December 10, 2016, 07:37:26 PM
If you read that you would know what I am talking about.

I highly doubt that.  You speak UB Language.  Trying to understand you is like trying to understand Sanskrit.  It is thoroughly impenetrable prose for the most part.  I can occassionally figure out your meanings and get the general drift of your thinking, but in terms of specifics it is complete gobbledegook.  You simply cannot write a clear sentence or coherent paragraph most of the time.  I struggle to figure it out, but often this is a losing proposition.  You just do not write very clearly in the English language.

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: jdwheeler42 on December 10, 2016, 07:54:51 PM
Have you ever wondered why it is that some countries are all Catholic, and some are all Muslim, etc?You  How does it turn out that the next generation always considers all religions and decides for itself that the religion of their parents is best, and their God is the One True God, and will happily go to war against the heathen? - indoctrination, that's how.  That's what is so insidious about religion. Plus the fact that the indoctrinators live comfortably surrounded by wealth and political power, while still having the morals no better (and often worse) than the rest of society.

Take religion out of society and people still live their lives OK, their morals aren't corrupted, or at least no worse than before.  The framers of the US Constitution knew that.  Unfortunately they didn't go the extra step and forbid religion, whereas the Bolsheviks did.  The Soviet Union thus ended up having women's rights far earlier, had far more ethnic equality across their vast empire, free education and medical services, far fewer people in jail than the US.
You definitely do have a point about indoctrination.  The real problem is that the next generation doesn't always consider all religions and decide for itself that the religion of their parents is best.  I think it would be a wonderful thing if such an examination and choice were made consciously and deliberately, and at a time when they are neither driven by pleasing nor opposing their parents.

As far as the lack of religion in the USSR is concerned, if you are so pleased with that, why don't you move there?  Oh that's right, because IT DOESN'T EXIST ANYMORE.  Sure, religion may be the opiate of the masses, but the advent of anesthetics was what allowed surgery to flourish.  Empirically, it is NOT a given that people still live their lives okay without religion.  Whether forbidden by the state or abandoned voluntarily, societies lacking religion DO seem to undergo moral decay, both in ancient and modern times.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on December 10, 2016, 09:38:55 PM
Quote
Empirically, it is NOT a given that people still live their lives okay without religion.  Whether forbidden by the state or abandoned voluntarily, societies lacking religion DO seem to undergo moral decay, both in ancient and modern times.

Examples please.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on December 10, 2016, 10:05:14 PM
Quote
GO: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/01/health/01docs.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/01/health/01docs.html)  :icon_study:

I think your point is that the US has a better medical system than Russia did, because they could do quintuple bypass surgery.  My question is, how much would it cost me? - if I can't afford it, then I can't have the surgery, end of story.  At least in Russia (and Cuba) they would do their best you for free.

Watch "Sicko (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVRRu4cpVYs)" again, particularly the last bit.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: RE on December 10, 2016, 10:23:03 PM
Quote
GO: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/01/health/01docs.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/01/health/01docs.html)  :icon_study:

I think your point is that the US has a better medical system than Russia did, because they could do quintuple bypass surgery.  My question is, how much would it cost me? - if I can't afford it, then I can't have the surgery, end of story.  At least in Russia (and Cuba) they would do their best you for free.

Watch "Sicko (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVRRu4cpVYs)" again, particularly the last bit.

As long as you can work the insurance industry and ignore bills from doctors and dentists, the FSoA system works just fine.  The key is to get the work done before you pay for it, and stiff the doctor or dentist on the bill.  They deserve it, so I got no problem morally with doing this.

When this method ceases to work, you travel outside the country to doctors and dentists who do the same job for one tenth the price.  You get a nice Vacation as a bonus this way.

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: RE on December 10, 2016, 10:41:36 PM
If you read that you would know what I am talking about.

I highly doubt that.  You speak UB Language.  Trying to understand you is like trying to understand Sanskrit.  It is thoroughly impenetrable prose for the most part.  I can occassionally figure out your meanings and get the general drift of your thinking, but in terms of specifics it is complete gobbledegook.  You simply cannot write a clear sentence or coherent paragraph most of the time.  I struggle to figure it out, but often this is a losing proposition.  You just do not write very clearly in the English language.

RE

You could not have read the link. You simply have not followed the discussion. I do not mind clarifying things for you, which involves recapping, reminding you of the subject and what has been covered. This makes the posts twice as long. I am not prepared to expend that effort if no effort is made on your part. If you familiarized yourself with the emails we are discussing, the meaning of the post above would be obvious.

It's not just my problem UB.  PY has the same problem with your prose.  You can't write very well, and it makes your material hard to understand.

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on December 10, 2016, 10:52:25 PM
It is understandable why the Russians would want to hack Hillary's emails, similarly DNC and Podesta.  But why wouldn't they want to hack into Trump's emails too?  No doubt Russian hackers are good, but are not US and Chinese and Israeli hackers just as good?  And surely the hacker with the most motivation to hack Hillary would have been Trump.  And surely the hacker with the most opportunity to hack Podesta would be an Admin (and Trump/Bernie supporter) at Google.  There must be hundreds of people at Google who have Admin passwords, and who could lend the password out to hackers and leave the rest up to them.

All the CIA know is that whoever it was used a Russian IP address to do the hacking, and the results ended up on Wikileaks.  And I've explained how to get a Russian IP address in Using Proxies for Security (https://www.doomsteaddiner.net/forum/index.php/topic,8531.0.html) .

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-10/soft-coup-attempt-imminent-furious-trump-slams-secret-cia-report-russia-helped-him-w (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-10/soft-coup-attempt-imminent-furious-trump-slams-secret-cia-report-russia-helped-him-w)
A "Soft Coup" Attempt: Furious Trump Slams "Secret" CIA Report Russia Helped Him Win
Tyler Durden
Dec 10, 2016

Overnight the media propaganda wars escalated after the late Friday release of an article by the Washington Post (which last week admitted to using unverified, or fake, news in an attempt to smear other so-called "fake news" sites) according to which a secret CIA assessment found that Russia sought to tip last month’s U.S. presidential election in Donald Trump’s favor, a conclusion presented without any actual evidence, and which drew an extraordinary, and angry rebuke from the president-elect’s camp.

“These are the same people that said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction,” Trump’s transition team said, launching a broadside against the spy agency. “The election ended a long time ago in one of the biggest Electoral College victories in history. It’s now time to move on and ‘Make America Great Again.’ ”

The Washington Post report comes after outgoing President Barack Obama ordered a review of all cyberattacks that took place during the 2016 election cycle, amid growing calls from Congress for more information on the extent of Russian interference in the campaign. The newspaper cited officials briefed on the matter as saying that individuals with connections to Moscow provided WikiLeaks with email hacked from the Democratic National Committee, Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton’s campaign chief and others.

Without a shred of evidence provided, and despite Wikileaks' own on the record denial that the source of the emails was Russian, the WaPo attack piece claims the email messages were steadily leaked out via WikiLeaks in the months before the election, damaging Clinton’s White House run. Essentially, according to the WaPo, the Russians’ aim was to help Donald Trump win and not just undermine the U.S. electoral process, hinting at a counter-Hillary intent on the side of Putin.

“It is the assessment of the intelligence community that Russia’s goal here was to favor one candidate over the other, to help Trump get elected,” the newspaper quoted a senior U.S. official briefed on an intelligence presentation last week to key senators as saying. “That’s the consensus view.”

CIA agents told the lawmakers it was “quite clear” - although it was not reported exactly what made it "clear" - that electing Trump was Russia’s goal, according to officials who spoke to the Post, citing growing evidence from multiple sources.

And yet, key questions remain unanswered, and the CIA’s report fell short of being a formal U.S. assessment produced by all 17 intelligence agencies the newspaper said, for two reasons. As we reported in November "The "Fact" That 17 Intelligence Agencies Confirmed Russia is Behind the Email Hacks Isn’t Actually…A "Fact", and then also because aside from so-called "consensus", there is - once again - no evidence, otherwise the appropriate agencies would have long since released it, and this is nothing more than another propaganda attempt to build tension with Russia. In fact, the WaPo admits as much in the following text, which effectively destroys the article's entire argument :

    The CIA presentation to senators about Russia’s intentions fell short of a formal U.S. assessment produced by all 17 intelligence agencies. A senior U.S. official said there were minor disagreements among intelligence officials about the agency’s assessment, in part because some questions remain unanswered.

    For example, intelligence agencies do not have specific intelligence showing officials in the Kremlin “directing” the identified individuals to pass the Democratic emails to WikiLeaks, a second senior U.S. official said. Those actors, according to the official, were “one step” removed from the Russian government, rather than government employees. Moscow has in the past used middlemen to participate in sensitive intelligence operations so it has plausible deniability.

    * * *

     

     “I’ll be the first one to come out and point at Russia if there’s clear evidence, but there is no clear evidence — even now,” said Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.), the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee and a member of the Trump transition team. “There’s a lot of innuendo, lots of circumstantial evidence, that’s it.”

And since even the WaPo is forced to admit that intelligence agents don’t have the proof that Russian officials directed the identified individuals to supply WikiLeaks with the hacked Democratic emails, the best it can do is speculate based on circumstantial inferences, especially since, as noted above, WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange has denied links with Russia’s government, putting the burden of proof on the side of those who challenge the Wikileaks narrative. So far that proof has not been provided.

Nonetheless, at the White House, Deputy Press Secretary Eric Schultz said Obama called for the cyberattacks review earlier this week to ensure “the integrity of our elections.”

“This report will dig into this pattern of malicious cyberactivity timed to our elections, take stock of our defensive capabilities and capture lessons learned to make sure that we brief members of Congress and stakeholders as appropriate,” Schultz said.

Taking the absurdity to a whole new level, Obama wants the report completed before his term ends on January 20, by none other than a proven and confirmed liar: "The review will be led by James Clapper, the outgoing director of national intelligence, officials said." In other words, the report that the Kremlin stole the election should be prepared by the time Trump is expected to be sworn in.

“We are going to make public as much as we can,” the spokesman added. “This is a major priority for the president.”

The move comes after Democrats in Congress pressed the White House to reveal details, to Congress or to the public, of Russian hacking and disinformation in the election.

On Oct. 7, one month before the election, the Department of Homeland Security and the Director of National Intelligence announced that “the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of emails from U.S. persons and institutions, including from U.S. political organizations.” “These thefts and disclosures are intended to interfere with the U.S. election process,” they said.

Trump dismissed those findings in an interview published Wednesday by Time magazine for its “Person of the Year” award. Asked if the intelligence was politicized, Trump answered: “I think so.”

“I don’t believe they interfered,” he said. “It could be Russia. And it could be China. And it could be some guy in his home in New Jersey.”

Worried that Trump will sweep the issue under the rug after his inauguration, seven Democrats on the Senate Intelligence Committee called on Nov. 29 for the White House to declassify what it knows about Russian interference. The seven have already been briefed on the classified details, suggesting they believe there is more information the public should know. On Tuesday this week, leading House Democrats called on Obama to give members of the entire Congress a classified briefing on Russian interference, from hacking to the spreading of fake news stories to mislead U.S. voters.

Republicans in Congress have also promised hearings into Russian activities once the new administration comes in.

Obama’s homeland security adviser Lisa Monaco said the cyberinterference goes back to the 2008 presidential race, when both the Obama and John McCain campaigns were hit by malicious computer intrusions.

* * *

An interesting aside to emerge from last night's hit piece and the Trump team response is that there is now a full blown turf war between Trump and the CIA, as NBC's Chuck Todd observed in a series of late Friday tweets:

    The implication in the Trump transition statement is that he doesn't believe a single thing from the CIA.

    — Chuck Todd (@chucktodd) December 10, 2016

    Is the next Commander-in-Chief is signaling that the CIA won't be a major player in his national security team?

    — Chuck Todd (@chucktodd) December 10, 2016

    So stunned by the Trump transition statement on the Post-CIA-Russia story that I half expect a walk back by tomorrow

    — Chuck Todd (@chucktodd) December 10, 2016

    How helpful is it for the CIA's reputation around the world if the next US questions their findings so publicly? Good luck Mike Pompeo

    — Chuck Todd (@chucktodd) December 10, 2016

To which Glenn Greenwald provided the best counterargument:

    Yes, the CIA's sterling reputation around the world for truth-telling and integrity might be sullied if someone doubts their claims... https://t.co/2uyQXvFdOK (https://t.co/2uyQXvFdOK)

    — Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) December 10, 2016

    When is it hardest to get people not to blindly accept anonymous, evidence-free CIA claims? When it's very pleasing to believe them.

    — Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) December 10, 2016

However, of the mini Tweetstorm, this was the most important aspect: the veiled suggestion that in addition to Russia, both the FBI and the Obama presidency prevented Hillary from becoming the next US president...

    While Obama's FBI director smeared Hillary, Obama sat on evidence of Russian efforts to elect Trump that had basis in evidence.

    — Franklin Foer (@FranklinFoer) December 10, 2016

... which in light of these stunning new unproven and baseless allegations, she may very well have renewed aspirations toward.

* * *

So while there is no "there" there following the WaPo's latest attempt to fan the raging fires of evidence-free propaganda, or as the WaPo itself would say "fake news", here is why the story has dramatic implications. First, the only two quotes which matter:

    "...there is no clear evidence — even now,” said Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.), the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee and a member of the Trump transition team. “There’s a lot of innuendo, lots of circumstantial evidence, that’s it.”

     

    * * *

     

    "...Obama wants the report before he leaves office Jan. 20, Monaco said. The review will be led by [PROVEN LIAR] James Clapper, the outgoing director of national intelligence, officials said."

And then the summary:

    Announce "consensus" (not unanimous) "conclusion" based in circumstantial evidence now, before the Electoral College vote, then write a report with actual details due by Jan 20.
    Put a proven liar in charge of writing the report on Russian hacking.
    Fail to mention that not one of the leaked DNC or Podesta emails has been shown to be inauthentic. So the supposed Russian hacking simply revealed truth about Hillary, DNC, and MSM collusion and corruption.
    Fail to mention that if hacking was done by or for US government to stop Hillary, blaming the Russians would be the most likely disinformation used by US agencies.
    Expect every pro-Hillary lapdog journalist - which is virtually all of them - in America will hyperventilate (Twitter is currently on fire) about this latest fact-free, anti-Trump political stunt for the next nine days.

Or, as a reader put it, this is a soft coup attempt by leaders of Intel community and Obama Admin to influence the Electoral College vote, similar to the 1960s novel "Seven Days in May."
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: RE on December 11, 2016, 12:46:34 AM
WHAT?

RE
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: JRM on December 11, 2016, 07:41:32 AM
God Exists and Satan Exists
 God does not Exist but Satan does
 God Exists but Satan does not
 Neither God or Satan Exists
 Determinating whether God or Satan Eists is impossible, so further discussion on the topic is a waste of time
 Discussion of the presence of God or Satan is worthwhile, since one or the other or both might exist

A false choice is no choice at all.

I tried to cover all possible choices.  Is there another choice I should have included? ???  :icon_scratch:

RE

I'm sure lots of other possibilities exist.  The one I would have liked to have included is "God both exists and does not exist".  I would have selected that one.  Another possibility, of course, is "Only God exists" (pantheism), which has a number of variants, too.

There are several ways in which the statement (bold & underlined above) can be understood, and only one of those requires a non-classical,  paraconsistent logic (e.g., dialetheism) to be reasonable or rational.

I am both a non-theist and a mystic pantheist. For me, God is a fiction, but the entire Cosmos (all being/existence) is The Divine.  I also subscribe to dialetheism in such matters.

The Divine is revealed in the awakened heart, which awakens the eyes and the rest of the senses to its Reality.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: JRM on December 11, 2016, 07:45:25 AM
PS -

There are thousands of "gods" and versions of the notion of "God".  This complicates things when we talk about it.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: JRM on December 11, 2016, 08:01:51 AM
On the topic of "Fake News"....

It's a very real problem, and the "solution" provided by Facebook, Google, Twitter... is a remedy far worse than the problem itself.

In this time of suddenly naked fascism in the USA (unconcealed, in your face) there are now too many stinging insects buzzing about to swat.  They (the fascists) like it that way.  Shock and awe politics, we might call it.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: roamer on December 11, 2016, 09:44:55 AM
Quote
It's a very real problem, and the "solution" provided by Facebook, Google, Twitter... is a remedy far worse than the problem itself.

You got that right JRM.  The centralized nodes of the net seem to be manufacturing or supporting disinfo just fast enough to outpace any coherent organisation.  Insidious.  If it is as it seems it really begs the question of why Donald Trumps brand of incoherent populism got through? 
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: JRM on December 11, 2016, 02:12:35 PM
If it is as it seems it really begs the question of why Donald Trumps brand of incoherent populism got through?

It's still the same Internet Wild West as it has been, since the would-be filtering hasn't yet been enacted.  Thank heavens!  If it does get enacted as planned, perhaps "news" will come to be even more fully synonymous with propaganda than it already has been.

I'm all for some mechanism to call out the bullshitters, but without limiting access to divergent, diverse and dissenting perspectives on the world.  I suspect the deep down dilemma here is that even Faux News is commonly mistaken by nitwits as "fair and balanced".  If we can figure that one out -- how to respond to such a phenomenon -- we may be able to preserve the basis for reasonable public discourse via the airwaves, internet, etc.
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Palloy on December 16, 2016, 12:34:48 AM
This is a well-reasoned article summing up the whole affair.  It is a pity that he allowed himself to quote Julian Assange and former Ambassador to the UK Craig Murray, as they are biased too and haven't provided any evidence to back up their claims either.

If it was a hack, then there would be traces left in NSA traffic logs, which they would have been only to keen to share with us if it implicated Russia.  I suspect it was a leak, not by way of internet traffic, but by trusted Admins (at GMail for the Podesta account) copying the data to hard media and then smuggling it out of the building in their lunch box.

http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2016/12/15/hypocrisy-behind-the-russian-election-frenzy.html (http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2016/12/15/hypocrisy-behind-the-russian-election-frenzy.html)
Hypocrisy Behind The Russian-Election Frenzy
Robert Parrry
15.12.2016

As Democrats, the Obama administration and some neocon Republicans slide deeper into conspiracy theories about how Russia somehow handed the presidency to Donald Trump, they are behaving as they accused Trump of planning to behave if he had lost, questioning the legitimacy of the electoral process and sowing doubts about American democracy.

The thinking then was that if Trump had lost, he would have cited suspicions of voter fraud – possibly claiming that illegal Mexican immigrants had snuck into the polls to tip the election to Hillary Clinton – and Trump was widely condemned for even discussing the possibility of challenging the election’s outcome.

His refusal to commit to accepting the results was front-page news for days with leading editorialists declaring that his failure to announce that he would abide by the outcome disqualified him from the presidency.

But now the defeated Democrats and some anti-Trump neoconservatives in the Republican Party are jumping up and down about how Russia supposedly tainted the election by revealing information about the Democrats and the Clinton campaign.

Though there appears to be no hard evidence that the Russians did any such thing, the Obama administration’s CIA has thrown its weight behind the suspicions, basing its conclusions on “circumstantial evidence,” according to a report in The New York Times.

The Times reported: “The C.I.A.’s conclusion does not appear to be the product of specific new intelligence obtained since the election, several American officials, including some who had read the agency’s briefing, said on Sunday. Rather, it was an analysis of what many believe is overwhelming circumstantial evidence — evidence that others feel does not support firm judgments — that the Russians put a thumb on the scale for Mr. Trump, and got their desired outcome.”

In other words, the CIA apparently lacks direct reporting from a source inside the Kremlin or an electronic intercept in which Russian President Vladimir Putin or another senior official orders Russian operatives to tilt the U.S. election in favor of Trump.

More ‘Group Thinking’?

The absence of such hard evidence opens the door to what is called “confirmation bias” or analytical “group think” in which the CIA’s institutional animosity toward Russia and Trump could influence how analysts read otherwise innocent developments.

For instance, Russian news agencies RT or Sputnik reported critically at times about Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton, a complaint that has been raised repeatedly in U.S. press accounts arguing that Russia interfered in the U.S. election. But that charge assumes two things: that Clinton did not deserve critical coverage and that Americans – in any significant numbers – watch Russian networks.

Similarly, the yet-unproven charge that Russia organized the hacking of Democratic National Committee emails and the private email account of Clinton’s campaign chairman John Podesta assumes that the Russian government was responsible and that it then selectively leaked the material to WikiLeaks while withholding damaging information from hacked Republican accounts.

Here the suspicions also seem to extend far beyond what the CIA actually knows. First, the Republican National Committee denies that its email accounts were hacked, and even if they were hacked, there’s no evidence that they contained any information that was particularly newsworthy. Nor is there any evidence that – if the GOP accounts were hacked – they were hacked by the same group that hacked the Democratic Party emails, i.e., that the two hacks were part of the same operation.

That suspicion assumes a tightly controlled operation at the highest levels of the Russian government, but the CIA – with its intensive electronic surveillance of the Russian government and human sources inside the Kremlin – appears to lack any evidence of such a top-down operation.

Second, WikiLeaks editor Julian Assange directly denies that he received the Democratic leaked emails from the Russian government and one of his associates, former British Ambassador Craig Murray, told the U.K. Guardian that he knows who “leaked” the Democratic emails and that there never was a “hack,” i.e. an outside electronic penetration of an email account.

Murray said, “I’ve met the person who leaked them, and they are certainly not Russian and it’s an insider. It’s a leak, not a hack; the two are different things.”

‘Real News’

But even if Assange did get the data from the Russians, it’s important to remember that nothing in the material has been identified as false. It all appears to be truthful and none of it represented an egregious violation of privacy with some salacious or sensational angle.

The only reason the emails were newsworthy at all was that the documents revealed information that the DNC and the Clinton campaign were trying to keep secret from the American voters.

For instance, some emails confirmed Sen. Bernie Sanders’s suspicions that the DNC was improperly tilting the nomination race in favor of Clinton. The DNC was lying when it denied having an institutional thumb on the scales for Clinton. Thus, even if the Russians did uncover this evidence and did leak it to WikiLeaks, they would only have been informing the American people about the DNC’s abuse of the democratic process, something Democratic voters in particular had a right to know.

And, regarding Podesta’s emails, their most important revelation related to the partial transcripts of Clinton’s paid speeches to Wall Street banks, the contents of which Clinton had chosen to hide from the American people. So, again, if the Russians were involved in the leak, they would only have been giving to the voters information that Clinton should have released on her own. In other words, these disclosures are clearly not “fake news” – the other hysteria now sweeping Official Washington.

In the mainstream news media, there has been a clumsy effort to conflate these parallel frenzies, the leak of “real news” and the invention of “fake news.” But investigations of so-called “fake news” have revealed that these operations were run mostly by young entrepreneurs in places like Macedonia or Georgia who realized they could make advertising dollars by creating outlandish “click bait” stories that Trump partisans were particularly eager to read.

According to a New York Times investigation into one of the “fake news” sites, a college student in Tbilisi, Georgia, first tried to create a pro-Clinton “click bait” Web site but found that a pro-Trump operation was vastly more lucrative. This and other investigations did not trace the “fake news” sites back to Russia or any other government.

So, what’s perhaps most telling about the information that the CIA has accused Russia of sharing with the American people is that it was all “real news” about newsworthy topics.

What Threat to Democracy?

So, how does giving the American people truthful and relevant information undermine American democracy, which is the claim that is reverberating throughout the mainstream media and across Official Washington?

Presumably, the thinking is that it would have been better for the American people to have been kept in the dark about these secret maneuverings by the DNC and the Clinton campaign and, by keeping the public ignorant, that would have ensured Clinton’s election, the preferred outcome of the major U.S. news media.

There’s another double standard here. For instance, when a hack of — or a leak from — a Panamanian law firm exposed the personal finances of thousands of clients, including political figures in Iceland, Ukraine, Russia and other nations, there was widespread applause across the Western media for this example of journalism at its best.

The applause was deafening despite the fact that at least one of the principal “news agencies” involved was partly funded by the U.S. government. The Organized Crime and Corruption Reporting Project (OCCRP), a USAID-backed non-governmental organization, also was earlier involved in efforts to destabilize and delegitimize the elected Ukrainian government of President Viktor Yanukovych.

“Corruption” allegations against Yanukovych – pushed by OCCRP – were integral to the U.S.-supported effort to organize a violent putsch that drove Yanukovych from office on Feb. 22, 2014, touching off the Ukrainian civil war and – on a global scale – the New Cold War with Russia.

Yet, in the case of the “Panama Papers” or other leaks about “corruption” in governments targeted by U.S. officials for “regime change,” there are no frenzied investigations into where the information originated. Regarding the “Panama Papers,” there was simply back-slapping for the organizations that invested time and money in analyzing the volumes of material. And there were cheers when implicated officials were punished or forced to step down.

So, why are some leaks “good” and others “bad”? Why do we hail the “Panama Papers” or OCCRP’s “corruption evidence” that damaged Yanukovych – and ask no questions about where the material came from and how it was selectively used – yet we condemn the Democratic email leaks and undertake investigations into the source of the information?

In both the “Panama Papers” case and the “Democratic Party leaks,” the material appeared to be real. There was no evidence of disinformation or “black propaganda.” But, apparently, it’s okay to disrupt the politics of Iceland, Ukraine, Russia and other countries, but it is called a potential “act of war” – by neocon Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona – to reveal evidence of wrongdoing or excessive secrecy on the part of the Democratic Party in the United States.

Shoe on the Other Foot

Russian President Putin, while denying any Russian government attempt to tilt the election to Trump, recently commented on the American hypocrisy about interfering in other nations’ elections while complaining about alleged interference in its own or those of its allies. He described a conversation with an unnamed Western “colleague.”

Putin said, “I recently had a conversation with one of my colleagues. We touched upon our [Russian] alleged influence on some political processes abroad. I told him: ‘And what are you doing? You have been constantly interfering in our political life.’ And he replied: ‘It’s not us, it’s the NGOs’. I said: ‘Oh? But you pay them and write instructions for them.’ He said: ‘What kind of instructions?’ I said: ‘I have been reading them.’”

Whatever one thinks of Putin, he is not wrong in describing how various U.S.-funded NGOs, in the name of “democracy promotion,” seek to undermine governments that have ended up on Official Washington’s target list.

And another aspect of the hypocrisy permeating Official Washington’s belligerent rhetoric directed toward Russia: Aren’t the Democrats doing exactly what they accused Trump of planning to do if he had lost the Nov. 8 election, i.e., question the legitimacy of the results and thus undermine the faith of the American people in their democratic system?

For days, Trump’s unwillingness to accept, presumptively, the results of the election earned him front-page denunciations from many of the same mainstream newspapers and TV networks that are now trumpeting the unproven claims by the CIA that the Russians somehow influenced the election’s outcome by presenting some Democratic hidden facts to the American people.

Yet, this anti-Russian accusation not only undermines the American people’s faith in the election’s outcome but also represents a reckless last-ditch gamble to block Trump’s inauguration – or at least discredit him before he takes office – while using belligerent rhetoric that could push Russia and the United States closer to nuclear war.

Wouldn’t it be a good idea for the CIA to at least have hard evidence before the spy agency precipitated such a crisis?
Title: Re: Fake Newz
Post by: Hobogre on September 11, 2017, 04:00:14 PM
woah... that's a lot to read and to review how did you get those URL's that is a quite research talent,