Doomstead Diner Menu => Energy => Topic started by: RE on May 02, 2013, 12:38:27 AM

Title: Official EV Thread
Post by: RE on May 02, 2013, 12:38:27 AM
The latest collapse of a "Green Tech" startup EV company starts off this thread, which I Dedicate to AB.  :icon_mrgreen:

Good Newz on this one, Hank "the Skank' Paulson took a beating on it.  Though I am sure Da Fed will make good his losses.


Hank Paulson Burned As Another Electric Car Maker Goes Up In Flames

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 05/01/2013 20:24 -0400

It would appear that (apart from Tesla, for now) that any thing related to electric cars is going up in flames. From Fisker's fubar (and blowing all that hard-earned government funding) and Chevy's Volt dysphoria to A-123 Systems (the Lithium-Ion battery-maker) and now Coda - which Yahoo Finance notes was among an emerging crop of California startups seeking to build emission-free electric cars three years ago. After selling just 100 of its $37,250 five-passenger vehicles, Coda filed Chapter 11 today taking a few well-known investors with it. On the bright side, the government was not involved (from what we can tell), but on the even brighter side, none other than former US Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson was among those burned by the company going up in flames (as was Harbinger's Phil Falcone).

Despite the $300 million the company managed to raise, that quickly went and unable to raise an additional $150 million in new funding (we suspect blaming 'market conditions' for its mere $22million raise), Coda had no choice (and Fortress was more than happy to scoop it up and provide the DIP - the cars will make for fancy paperweights in a collateral liquidation). 'Green' is the new 'red' as it seems when it comes to electric cars, regardless of funding source - private or public - it goes up in flames.

Via Reuters,

    Green car startup Coda Holdings Inc filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection on Wednesday after selling just 100 of its all-electric sedans, another example of battery-powered vehicles' failure to break into the mass market.


    ... exit the auto sector and refocus on energy storage, a far less capital-intensive business.




    A group of lenders led by Fortress Investment Group LLC (FIG.N) plan to extend debtor-in-possession financing and will seek to acquire the company for $25 million through the bankruptcy process, Coda said in a statement.


    Coda launched its five-passenger electric car in California a year ago, delivering a range of 125 miles on a single charge. The $37,250 vehicle was criticized for its no-frills styling, and its short history also included a recall due to faulty airbags.




    Investors poured money into the sector, and Coda raised $300 million in equity from backers including Aeris Capital, Limited Brands Chief Executive Les Wexner, and former U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson. The company, however, in 2012 withdrew its request for $334 million in federal loans like the ones Fisker and Tesla received.


    As the allure of EVs faded, Coda struggled to secure new private funding. Last year, Coda sought to raise $150 million but clinched just $22 million, according to a filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.

    Coda has about 40 active employees and expects to recall 50 furloughed workers.
Title: Re: Official EV Thread
Post by: agelbert on May 02, 2013, 11:35:46 AM
As the dude in laugh in said while riding a tricycle wearing a nazi helmet,
Vely Eenteresting, but not funny. ;D

Tyler Durden has cred on EVs? ??? You have got to be shitting me! This guy thinks fossil fuels are cheap! :emthdown: Whoops, hope I didn't hit a nerve there. :icon_mrgreen:

Anyway, it sounds like a fun thread so I'll play the straight man for you. ;)

One stock symbol word for you and Tyler: KNDI (Kandi Technolgies Corp)

It's time to move past the 20th century PIGGERY. In the 21st century, corporations will have to accept that profit cannot be obtained at the biosphere's expense, PERIOD. Elon Musk and a few other future trillionaires know this. The ones who cling to the past will be left behind (or put in prison!).

For those who say EVs are a "drop in the bucket", "not practical" or "insignificant" in the future of land transportation, do you call THIS "insignificant"?

April 3-Kandi s 273 million rmb ($43.2 million USD) purchase and start of production in China's first recently completed "state of the art, built from the ground up" pure EV manufacturing facility with 1st stage annual capacity of 100,000 EVs, expandable to 300,000 per year. (

Tyler is trying to make hay out of the shakeout that always occurs in new and disruptive technologies - see US auto makers going bankrupt in droves in the early 20th century. Same thing is happening now and he is too pro ICE biased to understand it. He's wrong. :icon_mrgreen:

SNIPPET for those who think EVs aren't "practical due to battery charge limitations" in regard to Tesla and Kandi CEOs:
Unique to these two disruptive innovators in this new Industry, both realized the future need for EVs; but without a solution to re-energize the battery in minutes, not hours, the market would be extremely limited. So simultaneous to developing their vehicles, they both developed unique solutions to solve this problem.
-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Watch a less than two minute change of batteries in a Kandi EV quick change battery station.:

Here's the on call mobile crew manual battery quick change:

Don't throw away your oil burning gas hog! Aftermarket EV conversions might give the chassis a new life! :emthup: :icon_mrgreen:

Check out the 1991 Toyota MR2 EV:

Title: Video: Rear-Wheel Drive Electric Ford Fiesta Put To The Test
Post by: agelbert on May 03, 2013, 06:22:08 PM
Video: Rear-Wheel Drive Electric Ford Fiesta Put To The Test

April 29, 2013 by Christopher DeMorro

While Ford hasn’t invested as much money or effort into pure electric cars as some other automakers, its latest project could shape up to be its most promising. We already told you about the hub-in-wheel rear-wheel drive Ford Fiesta eWheelDrive, and now we have video of it in action, as well as talk about what the future of this new electric drive system may hold.

Built in conjunction with Schaffler, the Ford Fiesta eWheelDrive has two wheel-mounted motors at the rear end, freeing up space under the hood and in the trunk area. The battery pack can be mounted under the passenger space, and most of the drive components are in the wheels itself, saving a lot of space and eliminating components like drivetrains and transmissions.

According to Ford, this makes the Fiesta eWheelDrive much more nimble as well, which is ideal for tight urban areas. One future feature of this system, should it ever go into production, could allow the wheels to rotate as much as 90 degrees, making parallel parking a cinch even in the smallest of spaces.
With Ford’s focus on turbocharged EcoBoost engines and hybrid drivetrains though, pure electric vehicles may be hard to justify in the European economic climate. Maybe Ford is more serious about electric vehicles than we first thought though, and a rear-wheel drive electric Fiesta would be a welcome addition to the Ford portfolio if you ask me.

Source: Ford

Chris DeMorro is a writer and gearhead who loves all things automotive, from hybrids to HEMIs. You can follow his slow descent into madness and non-nonsensical ramblings on Twitter @harshcougar. (

BYD Going 100% Electric & Hybrid To Save Company

Posted on April 30, 2013 by Tim

BYD, one of China’s larger automakers, recently announced a new strategic plan to save its ailing company. This follows BYD stock sinking about 75% in the past year.

The company has decided to stop producing gas engines and produce only electric and hybrid vehicles within two years.

The decision has come with pressure from the BYD stakeholders, like US investor Warren Buffett, who are unhappy with the current downturn in company profits.

BYD’s net profit has collapsed in recent years, from $61.1 million four years ago to only $13.1 million last year.

Read more at (

Federal Government To Double Hybrid Fleet

April 30, 2013 by Christopher DeMorro 

While not as big of an issue as it once was, the rising Federal deficit remains of grave concern to many politicians. With fuel expenditures a huge expense for governments at all levels, the Federal government is looking to double the size of its hybrid fleet, a move it says will (eventually) save a million gallons of fuel per year.

The General Services Administration will begin phasing out certain fleet vehicles and replacing them with hybrids, eventually purchasing around 10,000 new hybrid vehicles for government use. This will just about double the current government fleet of 10,672, though gas-powered vehicles aren’t the only ones that will be replaced. Some less-popular alternative fuel vehicles will also be replaced by hybrids.

A million gallons of fuel saved per-year is a nice number to bandy about, but even 20,000 hybrids will still make up just about 10% of the GSA’s entire fleet. Depending on what hybrids the GSA buys, actual financial savings could take years to accrue, and it seems to indicate that the government is pulling away from certain alternative fuel projects.

But even if the hybridized fleet doesn’t save much, if any money directly, the lower pollution levels is something that absolutely benefits us all. Perhaps one day, all government vehicles will utilize hybrid cars in just about every regard, and then the financial savings will really pile up.

So a mixed bag of news, at best, a compromise if you will. Don’t see that too often in Washington these days, do you?

Source: The Detroit News (

Nissan Leaf Has Its Second-Best Sales Month, The Volt Declines Again

May 3, 2013 by Nicholas Brown


The Nissan Leaf enjoyed its second-best sales month in April 2013, moving nearly 2,000 units in the past 30 days. This is a big jump from just a few months ago, when Leaf sales weren’t even cracking 1,000 units a month. Meanwhile Chevy Volt sales are losing a little bit of steam. Are consumers warming up to EVs, or did the big price drop have a big effect on sales?

When Nissan started production of the Leaf in Tennessee, it may have helped them to sell more Leafs, but they still have a way to go before they can claim success. Nissan sold 1,937 Leaf EVs in April. and according to Nissan, Leaf sales increased 160% so far since 2013, compared to the first quarter (and two months) of 2012.

Meanwhile, sales of the Chevy Volt slightly decreased. In February 1,626 Chevy Volts were sold; in March: 1,478; and April just 1,306 Volts rolled off of dealership lots. There is a downward trend here, but so far Volt sales in 2013 so far are 3.2% more than 2012.

With Tesla Model S production in full swing though, there may soon be another competitor for best-selling electric car in America. Leaf and Volt, you’ve been warned.

Source: Autoblog Green

My Website: Kompulsa (

Title: Re: Official EV Thread
Post by: agelbert on May 06, 2013, 11:13:13 AM
Tesla Model S Taxis :icon_sunny:

May 5, 2013 Important Media Cross-Post

This is the first I’ve heard of Tesla taxis rolling out, but it’s no surprise, of course. From Gas2:

The Tesla Model S is popping up in taxi and chauffeur fleets from coast to coast, partly to gauge customer reaction, and partly to see if the electric sedan has the chops to handle being a livery vehicle.

In Los Angeles, Strack Transportation will be the first to see how customers react to being picked up in the Tesla Model S….

Meanwhile, in Boston, the app-based cab service Uber and UberX is offering an “Easter egg” of sorts in honor of the Boston Marathon through the help of Tesla Motors. For a limited time, users of the UberX app in the Boston area will have a chance to be picked up in a Tesla Model S. The user can not request the vehicle – it just shows up if you are requesting car service in the Tesla driver’s area at that time. To add to the fun, if you are picked up in the Tesla, you also get a free pair New Balance’s new glow-in-the-dark 890v3 sneakers.
According to Uber, the Tesla will be becoming available through Uber Black, the more posh car service wing of the program, but the Tesla will be available on UBERx in order to promote the product. (

Taxis use a LOT of gasoline. If the taxi fleets in all the big cities swittch to EVs, demand destruction for gasoline will accelerate. GOOD! :icon_mrgreen:
Title: MKing said
Post by: agelbert on May 07, 2013, 04:43:01 PM
8900 miles on the Volt, 18 gallons of gas. Beats my Metropolitan scooter all to hell in the efficiency department.
Nothing to complain about after a year.

Excellent! :emthup: :emthup: :emthup:  :icon_sunny:

They are planning to sell a LOT more Volts by lowering the selling price soon.

GM Aims To Cut Chevy Volt Cost By $10,000

May 7, 2013 Nicholas Brown

Chevy Volt. Image Credit: GM

The cost of the Chevy Volt might be cut by $7,000 to $10,000, according to recent reports. I have been following the electrification of vehicles closely since about 2008. I kept wishing that researchers would develop improved battery technology for electric vehicles, and I’ve seen it happen many times. The development of lithium-ion battery technology really is on a roll. There is now a major discovery multiple times per year. What has kept bothering me …
Read More (


The plans include a weight reduction of the 3,700-pound car and a switch to a dedicated platform, rather than the use of the gasoline-powered Cruze platform.

Gasoline-powered car platforms are optimized for gasoline-powered cars, and are not ideal for electric cars.

Electric cars are best when designed from the ground up so that their entire bodies are optimized to achieve the lowest possible cost and the best characteristics of electric cars overall.

For example, gasoline-powered cars use firewalls, gas tanks, and of course gasoline engines, which the car has to be designed around.

Read more at (
Title: LG Chem To Start EV Car Battery Plant In US
Post by: agelbert on May 07, 2013, 04:55:14 PM
LG Chem To Start EV Car Battery Plant In US

May 7, 2013 Tim Tyler

South Korea’s LG Chem, the world’s third-largest maker of lithium-ion batteries, is planning to start production at its Michigan battery cell manufacturing plant later this year.


LG Chem had actually planned to start production earlier this year, but it cited lower-than-projected demand as the reason for the delay. Now, production should start at the manufacturing facility in July or August.

LG Chem is aiming to produce enough battery cells annually at this Michigan plant to equip 60,000 electric vehicles.

The lithium-ion battery cell manufacturing plant in Michigan was built with the help of US government funding, $151 million of it. The total construction cost was around $304 million for the manufacturing plant.

LG Chem supplies electric car batteries for GM’s Volt, Ford’s Focus Electric, and the Renault SA from its South Korean facilities.

Kim Jong-hyun, head of LG Chem’s battery division, is optimistic about the EV market. There were high hopes for the market early on that have been tough (i.e. impossible) to reach, but the technology is moving forward nicely and sales are picking up. As electric car prices go down, the market will expand, Kim notes. He sees plug-in electric vehicles as having more promise, since they are more efficient and allow automakers to hit emissions targets and better market their cars.

Naturally, Reuters (which seems to have a clear anti-EV agenda for some reason), put a negative spin on EVs throughout its coverage of this story. I guess that’s a guarantee over there right now.

Read more at (

The bad news for the anti-EV crowd just keeps piling up.  8) It's hard to overcome the mental manipulation and programing of decades of mendacious Pro fossil fuel propaganda. When you've been lied to your whole life, the truth seems like a lie...

The anti-EV crowd will soon reach the conclusion that CFS = pro EV. Cradle to grave vehicle Energy math will not continue to be danced around. The ICE car is the walking dead.
Title: Re: Official EV Thread
Post by: agelbert on May 07, 2013, 05:26:23 PM
The right solution is probably a two car setup per household. Something EV for all the around town running most of the time, and an efficient diesel or the Prius Plugin for road trips.
Yep. That is probably what is best until fast chargers are a reality and are as ubiquitous as these:
Title: Re: Official EV Thread
Post by: peter on May 07, 2013, 07:33:29 PM
My experience with my EV (Polaris Ranger EV) has been very positive but not trouble free. I think I've got the kinks worked out now. Below is a post I just made to a Ranger EV thread regarding the machine.

-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On my 2010 model the state of charge meter went unreliable about a year ago and I never trusted it after that. Most often it would not reset itself after a charge just staying at the level of discharge it was at before starting the charge. The only way to get it to show a full charge was to unplug the main battery connector and ac.

The problem with doing this is that it would reset to the top even when partially discharged so you never really knew how much of a charge you had.

I mentioned above I was going to rewire the machine because it now needed a second new charger. I totally distrust the stock charger and it is responsible for all of the ills of the machine. It is really poorly designed with the main 48v + terminal that is supposed to carry up to 20amps of current looking like it could barely carry 5amps. That terminal burning out is the main cause of the machines woes.

I now have my machine running with the new setup and am just waiting for a few more parts to polish the modification up and will then do a detailed post of the modification including wiring diagram, parts list, supplier list and lots of photos. The total cost doing the modification myself is about 40% ($350.00) of the cost of a new stock charger.

My machine is now running the way it should have from the start. As a bonus the charger I use now has increased my range by about 30 to 40%!

The new charger is a Protech 4815C, about 12amp compared to about 10 amp for the stock one. It has a built in cooling fan and is programmable. The charger is about $400 new but I bought a refurbished one from someone reliable selling them on ebay for $158.

I could tell right away the charger would make a difference. My batteries were at full charge state according to the stock charger when I first used the new charger. It ran at full charge for almost 3 hours before going into conditioning mode. Obviously it was putting more energy into the batteries than the old charger.

I have been using the new charger for about 2 weeks now and discharge the unit daily to about 60%. The range just keeps getting better as time goes on.

I replaced the stock charge/hr meter with one I bought from a chinese supplier on ebay and it has worked flawlessly so far. Much more sensitive. The stock meter would often sit in one place for a long time then suddenly drop 2 or 3 bars. This one always drops one bar at a time.

One problem I discovered during owning this machine was unreliable range. Sometimes I just seemed to have less range than I expected.

What I discovered is that the way the battery banks are wired there is no way to tell if both banks of 4 batteries were actually in the circuit. I have 2 watering kits, one for each bank of 4 batteries and I eventually realized that at times one bank took substantially more water than the other.

I cleaned the terminals regularly but eventually found one cable with a bad crimp and corrosion under it. That's all it takes to take one bank out of service.

When my charge meter became untrustworthy I bought a 52V digital readout meter and put it in the dash so I had an idea of the charge state of my batteries. It works well. When I did the upgrade to the new charger I realized I could use a second meter to tell if both banks of batteries are being used.

I am waiting for the second meter now and will put one meter on each bank. I will then immediately be able to see if both banks are charging/discharging somewhat equally.

My old charger still works somewhat so I decided to leave it in place as a backup. I can easily use either charger now.

The new charger did not have a 12v output which is needed for the control circuits so I bought a separate 48v/12v DC DC converter ($38 ) with an output of 240w. I wired it with a switch so the control circuit can draw 12v either from the stock charger or the new converter. I put a separate cigarette lighter socket on the new more powerful converter that is able to run a small heater/defroster (I have a cab) and a good air pump which the stock unit could not handle.

I'll have all the changes done in the next couple of weeks and will put up a detailed post then.

My machine regularly gets worked hard and is my only transportation. It is now running like it should.



The EV uses 8 deep cycle sealed lead acid batteries that weigh about 800 lbs. I now have two full sets of 8 batteries and a high tech charger that supposedly will make the batteries last indefinitely. Normal chargers do not desulfate batteries properly and after many charge cycles too much sulphur builds up on the plates which normal chargers will no longer remove.

I will switch the batteries once a year and use the special desulphation charger  to treat the currently unused batteries one at a time which takes quite a while.

I looked at buying lithium ION batteries which would cut the weight in half and triple the range but at $17,000 for a set of batteries as compared to $1,400 it was too expensive. I have enough range for my use.

Time will tell but I'm hoping the two sets of batteries will last me the life of the EV.

I'm back to having to feed a gas guzzler with the boat I just bought but it gives me the option to get out to civilization on my own without expensive water taxis, ferries or float planes. I'm contemplating on how to electrify it. I'm looking forward to being more mobile and plan to explore the wild coast in this area this summer. I'll take the electric kayak along.

Below is a copy of an  email I sent out recently that explains why you don't see me on the internet much these days.

Best wishes to all of you.


Hi Dr Eowyn...
It has been a long time. I've been meaning to write to let you know why I dropped the other investigation when I did in an incomplete state. If something conclusive could have materialized I would have carried on, but I came to  think that wasn't the case..The reason applies to this situation as well.
After over 10 years of mostly intense and voluminous information interchange on the internet within the 'truther' community I have come to feel the Internet is now, and probably always was, more of a benefit to those intent on controlling our society, than a tool to be used by the truth movement to help change society.
The first article I wrote many years ago that got wide circulation, questioned the role of the internet. I suspected then, and am convinced now that the truth movement was purposely nurtured into existence as a controlled opposition similarly to virtually all the environmental and peace groups.
This is not to say that the average person participating in these endeavors is there with ulterior motives.  The vast majority are sincere and helpful at a certain level. The problem is that the good the rank and file do at their level is far outweighed by what the controllers of institutions like the internet do with the rank and file's naive participation.
The 'truther' movement has become a controlled opposition that is being used to justify clamping down on everyone's rights.  Although very honorable to the many sincere individuals involved in trying to get the truth out to the masses, the process itself is being corrupted into a weapon of mass destruction. Truther's will soon be made into the fall guy boogey men in order to physically force the majority to follow the party line without question.
The Internet is 'owned' by the usual culprits that also 'own' the more traditional mass media. Yes there are many 'truths' to be found on the Internet but unfortunately they are only the one's that suit the purposes of the Internet's owners.
Control methodology is much more subtle on the internet than in the older mass media. Simply telling lies like the mass media does only works for so long and has reached the end of it's usefulness. Whether or not the internet had come along the mass media's usefulness was pretty much over because people were now more mobile and could see for themselves that much of the mass media's truth was not real.
Propaganda now needs to be much more subtle. The Internet allows for this slight of hand to happen. The alternative now to untrustworthy news organizations is gathering information yourself while naturally assuming that you yourself are trustworthy. If you got the 'facts' yourself, they must be true and therefore trustworthy.
Although we think that we ourselves, as the purveyor's of information on then internet, are more trustworthy than the mass media we still must 'correctly' interpret the events that shape society, that are mostly orchestrated by the elite. Just because we gather information ourselves rather than letting a news organization get if for us does not guarantee it is any more accurate.
On the Internet propaganda occurs at a much deeper level.
It's kind of like what a magician does. Focus the audience's attention on flashy innocuous events (9/11, Sandy Hook, Boston Marathon, etc) while doing the real dirty work in plain sight, but unseen because the audience's attention is focused elsewhere.
I have come to believe the 'truther' movement is such a misdirection of attention and no longer feel comfortable being part of the act.
The magic act is very close to it's climax and I feel the time for searching for the truth is well over. Currently I feel our efforts should be focused on building real live local communities instead of virtual ones that can be destroyed with the flick of a switch leaving a lot of well meaning people on their own, without support in their local real world community, in extremely difficult times.
I now feel that ongoing participation in the 'truther' movement is more a destructive distraction than a worthwhile endeavor.
I still believe in the principles brought forward by the truth movement, and the Internet was useful in allowing those principles to be defined.
However I think the internet is an impediment to bringing into being a lifestyle built on those principles. It is time to move forward and put what we have learned into action in our own lives rather than just interpreting the actions of others while they continue to create the world we must all live in.
If we want our own world we must build it ourselves.
I enjoyed meeting you and admire what you are doing. I still get daily emailed news items from your site.
I had a quick look at the information regarding the court hearing date. I think it would be very difficult if not impossible to definitively date such a document.
Title: Re: Official EV Thread
Post by: g on May 07, 2013, 10:25:09 PM
Peter, What a pleasure to hear from you again. Your postings are treasures to your many fans.
Title: Re: Official EV Thread
Post by: RE on May 07, 2013, 11:33:15 PM
Peter, What a pleasure to hear from you again. Your postings are treasures to your many fans.

That plus he fixed the Autoplay problem with the Vids on the Homepage.  That caused me a lot of grief, not to mention Money since it drove my Bandwidth usage WAY over the limit this month.

Far as the EV goes, that $17K for Li-I batteries for the Ranger is NASTY.  For how long will those be coming out of China anyhow?  The Lead-Acids should be scavengeable and recyclable for some time to come though.

Anyhow, I am hopeful his participation will increase again once we get the SUN  :icon_sunny: project off the ground.  That is more in keeping with his current philosophy.  I think he got really upset with the whole Sandy Hook episode.

Title: Re: Official EV Thread
Post by: agelbert on May 08, 2013, 11:41:42 AM
It is really poorly designed with the main 48v + terminal that is supposed to carry up to 20amps of current looking like it could barely carry 5amps. That terminal burning out is the main cause of the machines woes.!

Great to hear from you, Peter!
And yeah, more than 5 amps going through wiring designed for a max of 5 amps means melt down in a hurry. :(


I now have my machine running with the new setup and am just waiting for a few more parts to polish the modification up and will then do a detailed post of the modification including wiring diagram, parts list, supplier list and lots of photos. The total cost doing the modification myself is about 40% ($350.00) of the cost of a new stock charger.

My machine is now running the way it should have from the start. As a bonus the charger I use now has increased my range by about 30 to 40%!

Outstanding! I hope you can, with more cost effective batteries on the horizon, electrify your water transportation so you never need to buy gasoline.

I hear you about the truthers and the overall function of thei nternet as a controlled opposition type of escape blow off steam valve while fascism continues to tighten up and freedom to lose ground. I have watched as the internet has become increasingly cluttered with advertising and the "recommended viewing for you" sophisticated propaganda technique, among several subtle tools available to the controllers.

However, I have noticed something else that I think counters the negative with something positive.

The dumbass flag wavers used to trounce those who questioned the status quo from war to predatory capitalism. It seems to me the flag waving Wall Street clones get their asses handed to them on a regular basis now. If the controllers think that is just great becasue the "mob" has an escape valve, they do not really understand the dynamics of popular "common wisdom".

When memes like flag waving, pro-greed business practices and Waste Based Society Piggery become discredited in the public mind, change begins right in the households of the Wall Streeters from their own children giving them hell. Just look at the divestment from fossil fuels campaign in over 400 US colleges. Then there is the fact that Americans are no longer STUCK with the internet propaganda that is USA centered. Visiting web sites outside the US erodes anti-social ethnocentric attitudes that have always been used by the empire for divide and conquer tactics. 

I think the controllers have outsmarted themselves this time. I think they are going to lose this one. :icon_sunny:

Either that or we are all dead. :icon_mrgreen:
Title: TSLA (Tesla Motors) stock up over 20%!
Post by: agelbert on May 09, 2013, 08:52:41 AM
I hope Tyler Durden bought!  :icon_mrgreen:
Tesla Motors Inc



21.91% :icon_sunny:

Not only that, but Elon Musks other corporation, SCTY, is doing quite well today, thank you.

SCTY 25.64 +1.48 (6.13%)  :sunny:
Title: Re: Official EV Thread
Post by: widgeon on May 09, 2013, 02:58:46 PM
My biggest bug-a-boo is what happens when the battery (eventually) fails?  Basically, that's most of the cost of car, eh?

8900 miles is 360 gallons of gas w/ my Nissan PU (25 mpg)

That's $1260 per year at $3.50 gallon.

Any estimate on the cost for the electricity to charge the vehicle over a year?

Title: Widgeon
Post by: agelbert on May 09, 2013, 04:05:05 PM
Charging a car is much cheaper than fueling it with gasoline because the enrgy that gasoline provides an ICE to move a car is only 20% efficient whereas the electric motor is 78% efficient or greater in converting electrical energy to mechanical motion and there is little or no waste heat added to the atmosphere.

I don't have the numbers available right now but it is ridiculously cheap. That is why Elon Musk has stated that Tesla car owners will NEVER have to pay for the electricity at the charging station network he is setting up. The charging stations themselves are solar powered so there is no drain on the grid. :emthup: :icon_sunny:

Electrical Motor Efficiency
Scroll down to the NEMA Design B Electrical Motors chart: (
Title: Nissan Leaf Gets $15,000 Price Reduction In Australia
Post by: agelbert on May 09, 2013, 04:07:22 PM
Nissan Leaf Gets $15,000 Price Reduction In Australia

May 9, 2013 Nicholas Brown

The Nissan Leaf used to cost an eye-popping $51,500 in Australia, which may be why only 116 people bought it at that price.

Image Credit: Nissan Leaf via Wikimedia Commons

Fortunately, the price has dropped by an impressive $15,000, down to $39,990 after on-road costs, but 36,500 without on-road costs factored in.

“We want to sell more,” said Nissan Australia spokesman Peter Fadeyev. “We want to stimulate the market.”

Customers that already paid that extremely high price will not be reimbursed the price difference.

Read more at (
Title: Australian-made ‘Fast Charger’ Slashes EV Charging Time
Post by: agelbert on May 09, 2013, 04:09:10 PM
Australian-made ‘Fast Charger’ Slashes EV Charging Time

May 8, 2013 Guest Contributor

This story first appeared on Renew Economy

by Sophie Vorrath

Australian-designed EV-charging technology has slashed the time it takes to recharge an electric vehicle, achieving as  much as 80 per cent battery capacity in under 30 minutes.


Queensland-based EV systems manufacturer Tritium, which evolved from an interest in providing solar racing powertrain solutions, launched its Veefil charging system in Brisbane on Wednesday – a technology it has realised with the help of a $1.15 million Early Stage Commercialisation grant through Commercialisation Australia.

On a website dedicated to the technology, the company says its Veefil fast charger can charge an electric vehicle 20 times faster than plugging it into the wall at home, and that just 10 minutes of charging will give EV drivers 50km of range.

“Reducing the charge time of an electric vehicle from eight hours to less than an hour is a game changer and will be a major boost for the electric car industry,” said parliamentary secretary for Climate Change, Industry and Innovation, Yvette D’Ath, speaking at the launch.
Tritium says the Veefil could be rolled out to hotels, carparks, airports and shopping centres, where easy and fast turnaround times on charging would be at a premium.

Designed for indoor and outdoor use – and compact enough to fit in most locations without too much hassle – it is also suitable to be installed in private household garages. It supports both major DC fast charging standards used by EV manufacturers.

“With all indications that demand for electric cars will grow significantly over the next decade, this places Tritium – a Brisbane-based manufacturer – in a prime position to capitalise on that growth,” said D’Ath.

Read more at (
Title: Bosch Introduces Sub $450 Level 2 Car Charger
Post by: agelbert on May 09, 2013, 04:12:48 PM
Bosch Introduces Sub $450 Level 2 Car Charger

May 9, 2013 Nicholas Brown

Power Max 16A / 12’ cord entry level model. Image Credit: Bosch

Bosch Automotive Service Solutions has introduced a level 2 electric vehicle charging station that costs less than $450.

This is decent, compared to the prices of level 2 chargers from General Electric and Siemens. A GE Wattstation level 2 charger can cost $850, while a Siemens Versicharge can cost $995.

This Bosch Power Max charger is Underwriters Laboratory (UL) certified in both the United States and Canada, and has a NEMA 3R enclosure suitable for both indoor and outdoor use. (NEMA, or the National Electric Manufacturers Association, is an electrical standards organization.)

Level 2 electric vehicle chargers are 208-240 volts, and the residential ones can deliver up to 30 amps of power, which can provide the vehicle with 10–20 miles of range for every hour spent charging. This one provides 16 to 30 amps.

This news may help increase the number of electric vehicle chargers installed worldwide, and hence increase EV adoption due to increased charger ubiquity. :emthup: :icon_mrgreen:

Read more at (

Title: Tesla announced that it will be repaying its DOE loan five years early
Post by: agelbert on May 18, 2013, 11:41:47 AM
Tesla Model S Sales Much Higher Than Similarly Priced Cars From Mercedes, BMW, & Audi

May 18, 2013 Nathan

It’s near impossible to deny the success that Tesla Motors has been having as of late. The Model S has been selling extremely well. Its stock has been climbing to new heights, it has turned a profit, it has announced that it will be repaying its DOE loan five years early, and the company is gearing up for the release of several new models over the next few years. And now, new data from LMC Automotive is providing a good visual for that success — showing that the Tesla’s Model S is selling considerably better than similarly priced cars from Mercedes, BMW, and Audi.

Read more at (
Title: BYD EV Busses backed by Warren Buffet to be assembled and run in California
Post by: agelbert on May 22, 2013, 11:32:53 AM
EV manufacturer of buses and cars BYD, a company Warren Buffet is invested in, opens a plant in California.  :emthup: :sunny:

EV buses will be assembled there to meet the "buy American" requirements. ;)



Shocked! That's how U.S. makers of electric buses say they feel, following a decision by the transit authority of Long Beach, Calif., to buy 10 electric buses made by China--but financed by U.S. taxpayers.

The contract, worth more than $12 million, was awarded in April by a 5-2 vote of Long Beach Transit's board of directors.

Ebus, a U.S. maker based in Downey, Calif., protested the decision. The company, one of four losing domestic bidders, complained that the terms of the competition had been changed at the last minute in a way that favored the winner, China-based BYD.

Andy Eklov, owner of Ebus, tells the Long Beach Press-Telegram that Long Beach originally asked for buses capable of being re-charged periodically during daily use, rather than overnight in one longer session. The change, he contends, worked in BYD's favor.

That's not true, Long Beach's transit marketing manager, Kevin Lee, responds. Regarding re-charging intervals and many other particulars, he tells the Telegram, "We left it up to the companies to decide what they thought the best solution for Long Beach Transit [would be]. In the end, BYD had the best solution for us. The BYD option made the most sense."

Micheal Austin, a BYD vice president, tells ABC News that what tipped the procurement decision, he thinks, was the ability of BYD's buses to re-charge in a single overnight charge of 4-5 hours. "That was unique," he tells ABC. "The others had smaller batteries and needed in-route charging."

Full ABC news story here: (

BYD's official specs publication on its electric bus includes:

 Range: 155miles  :icon_sunny: [17][18] (186miles according to some reports[18])
 Acceleration: 0–50 km/h in 20s[16]
 Top speed: 96 km/h[16]
 Normal charge: 6h for full charge[17][18]
 Fast charge: 3h for full charge[17][18]
 Or overnight charging: 60 kW Max.power to fully charge the bus within 5h[17]
 Standard seats: 31+1 (31 for passengers and 1 for driver)[19]
 Weight: 18,000Kg[19]
 Clearance between one-step entry and ground: 360mm[19] (

In both years of 2011 and 2012, BYD has obtained electric bus orders from various countries/regions across the world, accumulating to 1200 units plus.[9][10][11][12] In order to meet the increasing demands for its electric-driven-only bus, the company extended its production base in Tianjin city of China at the end of July, 2012[13] and probably has such plans in some other overseas regions like Brazil[14] and Windsor of Canada[15] (

For the "China may not be toast" BYD story from China Daily with video, follow the link below.  :icon_mrgreen: (

Warren Buffet, anothet One Percenter that gets it!  :icon_sunny:

Title: The Better Place EV
Post by: agelbert on May 22, 2013, 08:28:21 PM
Better Place EV. Now selling in Israel and Denmark
Automatic battery swap station technology swaps battery in a few minutes. You lease the battery and will always get the latest technology battery in the lease package as long as you own the vehicle. :emthup:


Watch the battery switch here: (

Title: Tesla Model S packed with kindergarteners!
Post by: agelbert on May 25, 2013, 06:41:22 PM][/url]&fs=1
Title: Tesla Now Worth 25% Of GM, But Just Wait a Few Hours….
Post by: agelbert on May 31, 2013, 10:33:09 AM
Tesla Now Worth 25% Of GM, But Just Wait a Few Hours….
Read more at (

Great article! Here's my comment to those at Cleantechnica that think Tesla Stock is overpriced:

J_JamesM•a day ago

Isn't that inflated stock price a bit premature? I mean, I'm a huge fan of Tesla myself, but I fear a bubble. Only people that haven't been on the stock market long enough claim that something will only keep growing and never go down.

What happens to Tesla if their stocks crash? What happens to EVs in general?

agelbert> J_JamesM•11 minutes ago−

Well, remember how Amazon was under $5 in the 90s? And they don't have any particular nuts and bolts product like Tesla does. Then look at Google's history as it doubled over and over again. Is Google ACTUALLY worth more than Tesla in both ideas and product? Tesla is a revolution of innovation that goes FAR beyond the electric vehicle.

How so? What do you think is going to happen to any and all home internal combustion machine tools like lawn mowers, chain saws, snow blowers, etc. with the advances in battery life Tesla is producing?

Consider the effect on ICE emergency power generator sales when an electric version can run longer on a charge AND can be recharged in the field from an EV.

This is THE disruptive technology of disruptive technologies heralding the ALL ELECTRIC ECONOMY. Best of all, the top 1% are being swayed by the luxury EV so they will begin to champion all things electric through their media connections and simultaneously divest from fossil fuel stocks. This is BIG. Tesla stock, once they start paying dividends, will become a blue chip on the Dow 30 and will boost the Dow.

Expect other EV makers like the Kandi technologies (KNDI), which is still quite cheap and has just opened a plant in China capable of manufacturing over 100,000 EVs a year initially (and much more later) to do quite well also.

China gets it. And since they are cash rich and have such a giant consumer market, Big Oil will NOT be able to stop this EV revolution with their USA based oil oligarchy propaganda machine.

I don't own Tesla or any other stock. I wish I did. I opened a mock porfolio with Tesla and Solar city
on April 29, 2013. As of today I have over 85% ROI on BOTH of them.

Sure, there will be some profit taking along the way but I believe the UP trend is your friend here.
This isn't about luck; it's about superior technology replacing inferior, poisonous and polluting technology.

Musk is a great surfer riding the biggest wave in history since the industrial revolution called The Solar Revolution. Many others will surf this wave to prosperity COUPLED with biosphere enhancement instead of degradation. Join the Solar Revolution or be left behind. :>)
Title: How Tesla Motors Inc (TSLA) Is Helping Toyota And Daimler
Post by: agelbert on June 03, 2013, 02:44:43 PM
How Tesla Motors Inc (TSLA) Is Helping Toyota And Daimler             

June 3, 2013By Aman Jain Tesla Motors Inc (NASDAQ:TSLA) unmatched success has been closely watched by many investors and experts including the two popular automakers Toyota Motor Corporation (NYSE:TM) and Daimler AG (OTCMKTS:DDAIF) (ETR:DAI) (FRA:DAI).

Both these automakers were one of the early investors in Tesla Motors Inc (NASDAQ:TSLA). Daimler AG (OTCMKTS:DDAIF) (ETR:DAI) (FRA:DAI) invested $50 million for a 10 percent stake in 2009 while Toyota purchased the $50 million worth of stock when the electric car company went public in July 2010.

How Tesla is helping Tesla Motors Inc (NASDAQ:TSLA) with its state of the art energy management system could help both these automakers to speed up their electric vehicles segment, says a report from Joann Muller from Forbes. 

[Daimler AG (OTCMKTS:DDAIF) (ETR:DAI) (FRA:DAI)’s smart city car already used a Tesla battery, and its Mercedes B-class EV, which is expected to launch in 2014, will be equipped with Tesla powertrain.

On the other hand, Toyota Motor Corporation (NYSE:TM) signed a $100 million agreement with Tesla Motors Inc (NASDAQ:TSLA) for the supply of electric motors, power electronics, batteries, gearboxes and software for its new $50,000 RAV4 EV. The SUV’s are manufactured alongside Tesla’s Model S sedan in a Fremont, Calif., factory. The factory, earlier operated by Toyota and General Motors Company (NYSE:GM), was sold to Tesla, in 2010, by Toyota for $42 million.

Both, Toyota Motor Corporation (NYSE:TM) and Daimler AG (OTCMKTS:DDAIF) (ETR:DAI) (FRA:DAI) recorded a decent return from their investment in Tesla Motors Inc (NASDAQ:TSLA) and more so after the company’s stock tripled this year. Apart from the return, Tesla has also helped the older companies to consider a more open approach to counter technological issues.

Tesla has also inspired the automakers with its sheer pace of growth. Sheldon Brown, executive project manager for the Rav4 EV told that the company made us think “are we too engrossed in our own culture?”

Also, after collaborating their methods, both Toyota Motor Corporation (NYSE:TM) and Tesla Motors Inc (NASDAQ:TSLA) were able to compare and improve their approaches to vehicle development.

Investment from Daimler, rated highly by Tesla CEO The billionaire Elon Musk, considered the investment from Daimler much more important for the company than the $465 million taxpayer loan. The Daimler AG (OTCMKTS:DDAIF) (ETR:DAI) (FRA:DAI)’s investment came at a crucial point, when the company was on the verge of going under in 2008.
In an interview with Autoblog, in 2012, here is how Musk described the investment from Daimler:.

“There were a couple of near-death situations. One is where I had to basically take all of my personal reserve capital in 2008 and invest that in Tesla…. I was totally tapped out……… and then, thankfully, Daimler………. invested $50 million into Tesla…… they put $50 million into Tesla at a time when they themselves were cash strapped….. When someone is hungry themselves and they give you a bit of food, you’ve got to be grateful for that.”. (

Notice how it was the GERMANS that kept Tesla going when the chips were down. The Germans GET IT and their foresight is paying off NOW!  :emthup: :icon_mrgreen: :sunny:
Title: KNDI UP OVER 33%! Another one Tyler Durden of ZH missed out on!
Post by: agelbert on June 05, 2013, 01:43:31 PM
Kandi EV 5 minute Battery Switch Station

It seems somebody likes this stock A LOT all of a sudden.  ;)

TODAY'S ACTION: KNDI  5.25  +1.33 (33.93%)  :o
             Vol / Avg.     18.67M/116,302.00   
In technical analysis, a volume jump like that means the increase is REAL.  ;) This usually results in a sawtooth uptrend with pullbacks from profit taking followed by more upside. I don't own any stock. I wish I owned this one.  :(

The following news has been out for over a month.

Kandi Technologies Corp Announces Establishment Of Kandi Electric Vehicles (Wanning) Co., Ltd. In Hainan Province                

Friday, 26 Apr 2013 09:05am EDT

Kandi Technologies Corp announced that on April 23, 2013, Kandi Electric Vehicles (Wanning) Co., Ltd. (Kandi Wanning), incorporated and capitalized by Kandi's wholly owned subsidiary, Zhejiang Kandi Vehicles Co., Ltd. (Kandi Vehicles) has officially been approved by the local government agency and established in Wanning City of Hainan Province.

Kandi Wanning anticipates achieving the annual capacity of 100,000 units of EV key components and parts for its first phase (the Project) within two years. Upon the completion of the Project, Kandi Wanning will be transferred to and become a wholly owned subsidiary of Zhejiang Kandi Electric Vehicles Co., Ltd., the joint venture company that will be established by Kandi and Geely Auto. (
Title: Ford Buying 3 MW of Large Mexican PV Project
Post by: agelbert on June 07, 2013, 02:06:56 PM
Ford Buying 3 MW of Large Mexican PV Project              

Chris Meehan
June 07, 2013

Ford Motor Co. signed an agreement with Sonora80M to purchase 3 megawatts of one of the largest photovoltaic (PV) farms being built in Mexico. Sonora80M’s 20 megawatt PV farm is located in Hermosillo in the Mexican state of Sonora, where the company fittingly produces hybrid and other electric vehicles. It’s latest effort by Ford, which already has installed solar at manufacturing facilities in Germany and Michigan to incorporate more clean energy in its manufacturing processes.

"One of the main concerns in the business is to safeguard the environment," said Jose Islas, director of manufacturing at Ford of Mexico. "That's why, in addition to producing hybrid and electric vehicles in our Hermosillo plant, from the first quarter of 2014, we will be using solar energy for our operations. Through the use of this energy source, [we] seek to reduce our carbon footprint and lower the cost associated with the use of electrical input, resulting in higher levels of productivity and competitiveness for the company.”

Full  story here: (
Title: 300 horsepower in a mere 100 lbs.!!!? The secret is a COPPER ROTOR!
Post by: agelbert on June 09, 2013, 09:58:24 AM
Title: Another HUGE (UP 37%!) KNDI POP! Tyler Durden missed another boat!
Post by: agelbert on June 10, 2013, 02:52:51 PM

Agelbert missed this boat too.  :BangHead:  :(
Kandi Technolgies Corp. KNDI 7.85  +2.16 (37.96%)
LOOK AT THIS VOLUME! :o  Vol / Avg. 9.37M/918,890.00

Is Kandi Technolgies Corp. (KNDI) The New Tesla Motors Inc (TSLA)?  ;)              
By The Motley Fool in News
Published: June 6, 2013 at 10:35

Read more at (

Well, at least my mock portfolio with TSLA, AGQ, SCTY, GEVO & KNDI opened in late April 2013 has a 49% ROI.  :icon_mrgreen:

Title: Bad Nasty Tyler Durden and friends must be shorting KNDI!
Post by: agelbert on June 12, 2013, 01:58:59 PM
Tyler popped the bubbly today! :ernaehrung004: :evil4:

KNDI pull back of 14%  :emthdown:  :(


:icon_scratch: Well, with a couple of 30% plus pops lately, maybe this was just profit taking. :dontknow:

Tomorrow is another day with new opportunities  (to piss Tyler off ). :icon_mrgreen: :laughing7:

Title: Re: Official EV Thread: eGallon: Find out what it costs drive an electric car
Post by: g on June 13, 2013, 06:01:12 AM
 Gallon: Find out what it costs drive an electric car

Energy Department releases eGallon calculator to allow consumers to determine the cost, efficiency of driving electric cars vs. gasoline-powered cars.

    Electricity costs vary by region. But on average, fueling an electric car costs roughly a third of what it costs to fuel a gasoline-powered car, according to the Department of Energy.
    (Department of Energy)

By Anthony Ingram, Guest blogger   
posted June 13, 2013 at 8:04 am EDT

It isn't easy to compare gasoline and electric vehicles.

Sure, you can look at EPA stickers, sit in them and appreciate the way they drive, but comparing like-for-like on an economic basis is requires some thought.

The U.S. Department of Energy has simplified the process with its new eGallon calculator, showing potential electric vehicle drivers just how much cheaper it is to run one than the equivalent gasoline vehicle.

The DoE describes an eGallon as "the cost of fueling a vehicle with electricity compared to a similar vehicle that runs on gasoline".

Most people know that the power coming from a plug costs less than the fuel you pour into a car, even if that car will travel further each time you fill it up. But like-for-like, how much cheaper is electricity?

Around three times, is the answer.

The eGallon calculator takes the average miles-per-gallon figure of a new vehicle--28.2 for comparable 2012 model-year cars--and then calculates how much it would cost to drive an electric car the same distance. Simple.

The U.S. average for each is currently $3.65 for a gasoline vehicle, and just $1.14 for an eGallon.

A drop-down box lets you pick your comparison state-by-state, since gas and electricity costs vary around the country.

The DoE's press release also notes something else important when considering the difference in running costs: While the price of an eGallon has remained very similar over the past decade or so, gasoline prices have been incredibly erratic. A gasoline vehicle that seems cheap to run on one day may be incredibly expensive the next--but electric vehicles are largely immune to such fluctuations.

Electric cars have other benefits too, of course, not least those on a macroeconomic scale.

"Instead of spending $1 billion a day on foreign oil," explains Dan Leistikow, Director, Office of Public Affairs at the DoE, "...with electric vehicles and other technologies we can power our cars, homes and businesses with American energy."

Have a play with the eGallon calculator here, and see how little an electric car would cost to run in your state. ( :icon_study:
Title: Re: Official EV Thread
Post by: Eddie on June 13, 2013, 06:31:22 AM
Interesting side do we pay for road maintenance when there's no fuel tax revenue?

Tax is about 50 cents a gallon now. Will we raise that to subsidize electric vehicles even further? Maybe I should drop by the Tesla dealership and see what kind of trade I can get on my Mercedes.
Title: Re: Official EV Thread
Post by: jdwheeler42 on June 13, 2013, 10:25:59 AM
Interesting side do we pay for road maintenance when there's no fuel tax revenue?

Tax is about 50 cents a gallon now. Will we raise that to subsidize electric vehicles even further?

Well that's easy in Pennsylvania... every year we have to get our car inspected.  Part of the inspection is reading the odometer reading.  It would be simple enough to add a mileage surcharge based on the difference from the previous year. If you start off easy, say $2 per 1000 miles, or better yet have it based on the vehicle's weight, and couple it with a slight reduction in the gas tax, it should go through without much problem.

Quite frankly, the only real problem I have with that is that it won't go to the roads the car is driven on.  At least with the gas tax, it is collected within one tankful's range of where it is driven, collecting the mileage surcharge yearly will give no indication where the driving is being done.

The solution I absolutely hate is putting a special tax on electric vehicles to make up for the lost gas tax revenue.  I think the road maintenance fee should apply to all vehicles that use the roads and should be proportionate to the amount they use them.
Title: Re: Official EV Thread
Post by: Eddie on June 13, 2013, 10:43:22 AM
JD, forgive me for being a cynic, but the most likely thing to happen is simply that the fuel tax will be raised to cover the shortfall in revenue. What you're proposing is sensible, but that's not generally the way things work.

If the fuel tax is raised to make up for lost revenue from electric vehicles, then the gas and diesel  burners will be subsidizing the owners of electric vehicles more than they already are... which is considerable already.

Right now is a great time to go electric. $7500 tax credit (equals a 25K tax deduction for me.) Then I power my vehicle with electricity produced by coal and pay no fuel tax. That...and a Volt costs maybe 70K to produce and Chevy will sell one for maybe 45K. Hell of a deal, for wealthy people.

I like electric the change...but it has created some interesting inequities that need to be mentioned, that's all.
Title: Re: Official EV Thread
Post by: agelbert on June 13, 2013, 02:37:57 PM
Interesting side do we pay for road maintenance when there's no fuel tax revenue?

Well, they will hit people up for a tax on their electric usage bill. Most people DO NOT get their electricity from PV panels YET. That will take another decade.

When people ARE getting most of their juice from the sun, they'll just go to the old annual inspection odometer reading trick. Politicians are quite skilled at regressive taxation that hits the poor proportionately more than the rich. When the masses are using EVs, they will be taxed. Count on it.

Right now a lot of crooked mechanics that made a little money off those OBDS codes from emission control problems are trying to figure out some equivalent cash cow on electric motors.

MECHANIC: Hey buddy, your brushes need replacing.

EV OWNER: Uh, that motor is brushless...

MECHANIC: Harrumph! Well. your battery needs new hardware. Those retainers look a little rusty...

I hate car inspections.  :emthdown::angry5:
Title: Tesla profits are pouring in and Fossil Fuel LAKEY HIT PIECES TOO!
Post by: agelbert on June 14, 2013, 02:37:37 PM
Hypocrisy from the WSJ at it''s fossil fuel worshipping best!

They are COMPLAINING about "all those taxes" we pay to "keep Tesla afloat". NOT ONE WORD is said about the MASSIVE tax load we-the-people have paid to support fossil fuel corporations AND the big three car manufacturers in the USA for OVER 50 YEARS! WTF!!? ???

Tesla Isn't Standing on Its Own Yet (WSJ) :evil4:  :evil5: :evil6:
Todd Foley of the American Council On Renewable Energy (Letters, June 5) ignores the gist of the Journal's editorial critique of Tesla Motors Inc (NASDAQ:TSLA) +3.34% ("The Other Government Motors," May 24) and encourages us all to celebrate Tesla's early repayment of its DOE loan. Mr. Foley fails to refute the inconvenient truth that Tesla's revenues and profits involved a healthy dose of income redistribution from federal and state taxpayers and from rival car makers and their customers. So those of us who pay taxes and buy non-Tesla vehicles provided a loan to Tesla and then, in effect, gave Tesla the money to repay us—with interest. (

The BULLSHIT above is so thick you would drown with hip boots on! The WSJ just can't seem to remember the UNhealthy dose of income redistribution from federal and state taxpayers that the oil oligarchy CONTINUES TO SADDLE US WITH. The IRONY AND HYPOCRISY is Breathtaking! :o

So, boys and girls, WHY the hit piece NOW from the WSJ big oil lakeys?  :icon_scratch:

Uh, could THIS have something to do with FOSSIL FUEL DRAWERS IN A BUNCH?  :icon_mrgreen:

Tesla Motors PT Raised to $118.00 at Robert W. Baird (TSLA) (UtahPeopleSpost) :pile:

Investment analysts at Robert W. Baird lifted their price objective on shares of Tesla Motors Inc (NASDAQ:TSLA) from $70.00 to $118.00 in a note issued to investors on Wednesday, AnalystRatings.Net reports. The firm currently has an “outperform” rating on the stock. Robert W. Baird’s price objective indicates a potential upside of 20.74% from the company’s current price. A number of other firms have also recently commented on TSLA. Analysts at TheStreet reiterated a “buy” rating on shares of Tesla Motors Inc (NASDAQ:TSLA) in a research note to investors on Wednesday, June 5th. Separately, analysts at Bank of America reiterated an “underperform” rating on shares of Tesla Motors Inc (NASDAQ:TSLA) in a research note to investors on Monday, May 20th. :evil4:

Read more at (

Notice Bank of "America" is the only nasty, negative naysayer. Telling, isn't it?    Still don't get it? Bank of "America" has ALWAYS been about the oil oligarchy empire business. It's a PARASITE on the American taxpayer. It's an INSOLVENT bank that doesn't know (or care) JACK SHIT about making an honest dollar! It's a ZOMBIE BANK!  :evil7: Is that clear enough?  ;)

From Barrons, another lackey for the oil oligarchy. :LolLolLolLol:
Clever FUCKS aren't they?

The above HIT PIECE PROPAGANDA cartoon is more proof that the oil oligarchy is AFRAID OF TESLA!

The REALITY is Tesla's cars are the template for all successful EVS NOW AND IN THE FUTURE. :icon_sunny:

Fasten your critical thinking seat belt!  :icon_mrgreen: The negative propaganda shit storm :argue: is about to start HOT AND HEAVY.  :whip: Expect a hit piece from Tyler Durden TOO!  ( ICE worshippers are FRANTIC about the EV THREAT in general and TESLA, the LEADER of the pack,  in particular.:angry4: :hammer:


Do you want your children breathing toxic fumes or not?  :sunny:
Title: The Cops are going EV bikes because they are quiet (and sneaky)
Post by: agelbert on June 15, 2013, 08:10:36 PM

That means, for you HOG lovers, that like glass pipes and making a hell of a racket, the cops WILL crack down on the noisy motorcycle SOON because THEY don't have them anymore!  :icon_mrgreen: (
Title: Kandi Technologies is on a ROLL!
Post by: agelbert on June 17, 2013, 03:09:54 PM

ANOTHER KNDI POP! UP 24% TODAY! Tyler Durden, eat your heart out!  :icon_mrgreen:


Tyler Durden at lunch TODAY! (

Kandi Technologies (KNDI) Discusses Pure Electric Vehicles and Charging Facilities

June 17, 2013

By:Ashley Downs

Kandi Technologies (NASDAQ:KNDI) announced today it began construction of its first pure electric vehicle (EV) smart vertical parking and charging facility in Gudang Technology Park earlier this month. Guadang Technology Park is located in Xihu District and the charging facility is part of Kandi Technologies’ five year goal of establishing up to 100,000 self-serving rental EVs throughout Hangzhou.

This first facility is expected to be finished early next month. The company’s project plan calls for over 30 parking and charging facilities to be built by the end of the year in Hangzhou City. Between 5,000 and 10,000 pure EVs will be deployed in the city within a year from the launch of the charging facilities.

Full Story here: (

There you have it: PROOF that sometimes they BUY the NEWS instead of the RUMOR. Will they SELL the NEWS tomorrow? Maybe, but not to the tune of 24%. Just check the volume. This spike is real. Betting against EVs is a BAD MISTAKE.  :icon_mrgreen:

Prosser RV Sales & Rentals

6146 S. Howell Ave, Milwaukee, WI 53207 (866) 820-7243)

The Kandi EV is now being sold in the USA. This extremely low priced car is available in convertible as well as covered top models.
2010 KD-08e (Convertible w/o enclosure) Introductory priced at $7,995 without "Weather Kit".

Models, Prices & options here: (

Golden Oxen & Eddie: This is the slickest street legal golf cart :icon_mrgreen: you can ever get! You'll be the envy of the other golphers! With this baby you don't have to have Odd Job carry your clubs from the Rolls to the golf cart; just drive onto the course with your beer and clubs on board!  :icon_mrgreen:

Title: EV bike PERFORMANCE are UNAFFECTED by altitude
Post by: agelbert on June 22, 2013, 10:28:32 AM
A fellow Geezer takes an EV bike (the ZERO) up to 8,500 feet above sea level.

Title: Hey Tyler Durden, Coda is BA-A-ACK! LOL!
Post by: agelbert on June 25, 2013, 10:25:43 AM
Bankrupt Electric Vehicle Maker Coda Becomes Energy Storage Firm

Jeff Postelwait, Associate Editor, Electric Light & Power

June 25, 2013

Coda Holdings, which formerly made electric vehicles under the name Coda Automotive, sold its battery energy storage technology to a consortium of investors to form Coda Energy, which will design and build utility-scale energy storage solutions. Coda declared bankruptcy in May 2013.

Full story here (

SNIPPET for TYLER DURDEN to try to do a hit piece on: (http://[url=][/url])

According to Lux Research, the global energy storage market will grow nine-fold to $10.4 billion by 2017. NavigantResearch predicts the ancillary services market for energy storage will surpass $3.8 billion by 2023. Several factors contribute to this expected growth including the rapid emergence of grid-scale and distributed intermittent energy sources such as wind and solar power.

As anyone that can ADD and SUBTRACT KNOWS, when there are ENOUGH BATTERIES out there, the word INTERMITTENT will no longer apply to renewables. (

Title: Tesla Motors Conquers North Carolina
Post by: agelbert on July 02, 2013, 09:40:31 PM
Tesla Motors Conquers North Carolina

June 30, 2013 Nathan

Tesla Motors, as a pioneer in the electric car space, has to fight numerous battles and overcome numerous hurdles that won’t be in the way of electric cars or electric car companies a few years down the road. It’s not winning every one, but it’s good to see that it has more or less won the latest in North Carolina.

Tesla Motors has won yet another legal victory in its fight to sell directly to consumers and bypass the outdated auto-dealership sales model — the North Carolina House of Representatives just scrapped a bill put forward by the North Carolina Automobile Dealers Association that would have banned Tesla from selling its universally lauded electric vehicles within the state.

Image Credit: Tesla

For a bit of background, the North Carolina Automobile Dealers Association (NCADA) had used its political ties within the Senate to push for the passing of a bill which would have banned Tesla from selling its vehicles directly to consumers within North Carolina — the argument for them not being allowed to sell within the state simply being that it was “not fair” for them to sell directly to consumers rather than through them, the car dealerships.

That’s a bit rich coming from a business so notorious for cheating people…. :icon_mrgreen:

The North Carolina House of Representatives seems to agree. As of now, the bill is completely dead. Notably, both Governor Pat McCrory and House Speaker Thom Tillis recently went for test drives in Tesla’s vehicles — no doubt something that was quite effective. (  (

Full Story Here: (

Title: Bellevue goes all out for EV Love
Post by: agelbert on July 05, 2013, 08:35:06 PM

Published on Mar 22, 2013 

With charging stations in Bellevue and all along the West Coast, electric vehicle drivers can now travel the I-5 corridor from Canada to Mexico without needing a drop of gasoline.
Title: Ford C-MAX Energi Review
Post by: agelbert on July 10, 2013, 08:37:41 PM



Ford C-MAX Energi Review              
July 10, 2013 Zachary Shahan

Nick Chambers of Gas2 has posted a detailed review over there of the 2013 Ford C-Max Energi (plugin-hybrid electric vehicle) he recently bought. Read the full review on Gas2, or check out the snippets I’ve pulled out of it and quoted, below.

In a nutshell, Nick described the C-Max Energi as “[very] fun, functional, satisfying, futuristic and economical.” Here are more details (subheadings added or tweaked):

[/b]Not Using Gas[/b]

Ford has recently been hit with complaints of rigging the EPA fuel economy test to return results that are much higher than average drivers are finding in practice. And while the current state of affairs for the accuracy of EPA fuel economy ratings and the concurrent gaming of the tests by automakers is a bigger issue in general, with the C-Max Energi I find such arguments to be almost pointless.

I haven’t used more than a drop of gas in that car in 10 weeks. Even so, if I ever needed to drive over the mountains and go 800 miles on a whim I could do it using gas.

The EPA has certified the C-Max Energi at 21 miles of all-electric battery range before it switches over to hybrid mode where it’s supposed to return 43 mpg. The only experience I’ve had with using gas was on that trip back from the dealership over the mountains in the snowstorm, and that resulted in a 36 mpg average AFTER the battery was drained. Take that for what it’s worth.

But as I said, with the Energi the fuel economy hardly matters. Although the EPA says it will return 21 miles of all-electric range, I’ve found it comes closer to 24 or 25. That’s up and down hills and at speeds of between 25 and 50 mph. I’ve been able charge during the day from a regular 120 volt outlet, so the car always has more than enough stored electricity to get us around to where we need to go without using gas.

I was recently shocked when I had to fill up a regular gas car a few days ago and saw that in that six weeks gas had gone from $3.50 per gallon to almost $4, then immediately was elated that I was shocked at that realization.

Super Useful App… but Sometimes Slow

The available MyFordMobile smartphone app has some rough edges and can sometimes be very slow (some days even failing to be able to reach the server), however, with that said, I love this app. Not only does it allow me to monitor charging status and set up alerts for things like accidental unplugging or tripped circuits, it also will locate my car on map using GPS and lets me start it remotely or lock and unlock it. Seriously, I could be halfway around the world and if my wife called and said she’d locked her keys in the car I could unlock is with press of a fake smartphone button.

Drawbacks of the Ford C-Max Energi?

In terms of functionality, the battery does take up a significant portion of the trunk, but even so we can fit our 45 pound dog in there no problem and the hatchback microvan crossover thing greatly helps to minimize the loss of space. In any event, it is the car’s biggest drawback, so I encourage you to take old fido to the dealership and see if he’ll fit in before you take the plunge.


Other niggling annoyances exist. For instance, I wish the car would somehow remind you when that you park the car you should plug it in if you can. Although it’s become a habit, there are some times that I’m hurried or distracted and I’ve forgotten to plug the car in. A simple chime or combination of audible and visual indicators would be an easy fix.


Also, my kids’ booster seats partially cover up the buckles in the rear so waiting for them to get themselves buckled sometimes turns into an unnecessary problem—which, at the end of long school day, can sometimes feel like insurmountable frustration to them (and, consequently, their parents). I also wish the state of charge of the battery was displayed with more granularity (e.g. 82%), however all we get is a rather non-specific bar graph display with which you can guess in 10% increments.

First True Love

Even with these drawbacks, to be honest, this is the first car I’ve truly loved. Aside from it
being satisfying to drive for all the intellectual reasons you might expect, it’s surprisingly peppy, well-balanced, and grippy. It’s also cute, in that not-too-cute-for-your-typical-guy kind of way. The seats are comfortable and incredibly adjustable—everybody from a 120 pound 5’4″ pixie to a 6’6″ 300 pound giant could make this work for them. That’s actually a rare accomplishment in today’s cars.

In fact, I’m so smitten with this vehicle that it may be the car that finally made me a car guy. I know I write about cars and such, but really I’ve always felt mostly like a tech writer writing about the technology IN the cars and the cars themselves were an appliance to me—a way to get from point A to point B. Yes, I’ve always been into cars, but for me it was about the technology of the future. Now an average schmuck like me can walk into any car dealership in the country and buy the future. Not just one future, but a growing selection of multiple futures to choose from. It’s not just for the cover of Popular Mechanics anymore.

The C-Max Energi may not be a sexy thing, but the pleasure I get from driving around on electrons made from local dams at the equivalent of 15 cents per gallon gas and supporting local jobs is certainly equivalent to someone who really gets off on taking their ’57 Chevy to the levee or some shit.

So stop pumping terrorism into your car and, if at all possible, buy a plug in vehicle. The Ford C-Max Energi may be just the car to help you take the plunge.

Sounds good to me. :emthup:  :icon_sunny: (
Title: One Year With My Chevy Volt
Post by: agelbert on July 18, 2013, 04:09:22 PM
One Year With My Chevy Volt

July 12, 2013 Guest Contributor

By Douglas Elbinger, Energy Policy Analyst, GreenLancer

Let me tell you about my Chevy Volt, now that I’ve been driving it for one year.

I remember back in 2011 when the Volt was first announced. I admired the boldness of GM to bring out a range-extended plug-in electric vehicle (PEV) in the midst of such economic uncertainty. In accord with the automotive reviews at the time, I thought the Volt was too expensive.

My previous automotive experience has been with Audi. I’ve had five different Audi’s over the last fifteen years. Before that, I drove Oldsmobile. One of the reasons I got a Volt last year is that the Chevy dealer offered me so much more for my trade-in than other dealers, I thought I’d better sign a deal before they changed their mind. The Volt was the only car on the lot that intrigued me. It turns out they have very affordable three-year lease plans that have improved considerably in the last year. I recommend a two-year lease because if you upgrade, I’m sure the 2016 Volt will be much improved in terms of electric cruising range and performance. I like to think of my Volt as the Model-T of electric cars.

Not having driven an American car in nearly 15 years, I took a test drive and was immediately impressed. The very knowledgeable and patient sales person taught me how to drive it and understand all the dashboard displays that are slightly different from a gas powered vehicle.

Included in the deal is the installation of a 240V in-home charging station. The retail value for the home charging units is $490 (plus installation costs). The home charging unit is a 240-volt (Level II) charger, and, according to General Motors, can replenish the Volt’s batteries in about four hours. Consumer Reports has advised buyers to budget up to $2,000, which I believe to be true, as many older homes, including mine, may need a substantial electrical upgrade since the US National Electrical Code requires that the charger have its own dedicated 220-volt, 30-amp circuit. The whole process took about two months before the inspector approved the installation and turned on the power. In the meantime, I used the 120V charger that came with the car.

What people really want to know is… does it save you money?

That being asked, I’ll just bring the bottom line right to the top. Yes and no, but mostly no. You can purchase a car with equal power, performance, and style for much less money. Other than that… the Volt has many redeeming performance characteristics, technology, and value-added features that far exceed saving a few bucks on gas or car payments. Let me summarize based on real-life data. I have a daily roundtrip commute of approximately 44 miles, from Telegraph & Maple in Bloomfield Twp, to the David Stott building in downtown Detroit. On a full charge, when the temperature is above say 50 degrees F (battery range is less in cold weather… you are also running the heater and fan which takes up almost all your electric charge), I get an electric range of 36 miles per charge that covers 80% of my daily commute. At 24 miles per gallon, approximately $4/gal based on my actual results, I save about $40 per month. I should mention here that the gas tank only holds 11 gallons and takes premium. With a full tank and full charge I have a driving range of about 330 miles. If I don’t do any long-distance driving, I only need to fill up once a month. In the first couple months of ownership, I almost forgot how to use a gas pump.

(, the price premium paid for the Volt, after discounting the $7,500 US federal tax credit, takes a long time for consumers to recover in fuel savings, often longer than the normal ownership time period. Edmunds compared the Volt (priced at $31,712) with the same-size gasoline-powered Chevrolet Cruze (priced at $19,656) and found that the payback period for the plug-in hybrid is 15 years for gasoline prices at $3 per gallon, 12 years at $4 per gallon, and drops to 9 years with gasoline prices at $5 per gallon.] The EPA rating considers a conversion factor of 33.7 kWh of electricity being the energy equivalent of a gallon of gasoline. With special utility rates (I have a separate meter installed with my charger) for charging during off-peak hours, the cost of electricity is almost negligible. My mileage results vary greatly (on the down side) from the Chevy Volt data published in Wikipedia, but I’m still pretty impressed.

The next thing everyone wants to know is how does it perform?

For me, the true test of any car is how it handles in the worst weather… and we had plenty of that last winter. Compared to the Audi, I felt completely safe driving in white-out blizzards, freezing rain, and icy roads. It has the most responsive braking and steering system, comparable to any luxury car you may be driving. The Chevrolet Volt is packed with standard safety features that include 4-wheel anti-lock brakes with traction control; Stabili-Trak electronic stability control system with brake assist; tire-pressure monitoring system; and 8 total airbags: dual-stage frontal, side-impact and knee for driver and front passenger, and roof-rail side-impact for front and rear outboard seating positions, with a passenger sensing system. A safety cage, built of ultra high-strength steel, surrounds the passenger compartment to keep the space intact in the event of a crash. Crush zones framing the trunk and the engine crumple to absorb crash energy before it reaches occupants.

One of my most pleasant discoveries is how quiet this car is. It is so quiet I often leave the radio and telephone off to just drive and relax in peace and quiet. The other discovery is great ‘pick-up’.

You don’t have to worry about having enough power or speed to pass other cars driving in heavy aggressive traffic.

Talk about connectivity!

The Bluetooth phone feature allows you to keep both hands on the wheel while using the voice-activated phone. I got to like this because the car is so quiet you can talk in a normal voice. On-star comes standard. I used it once when I was locked out and it worked. Satellite radio is a nice add-on feature and the sound system is just a little better than OK. You will be emailed monthly performance reports, such details as the car monitor of tire pressure and when you need an oil change… which isn’t very often. The Volt features an OnStar Mobile application for owners to access vehicle information without being in or near the car.

This smartphone application features the ability to check fuel efficiency as well as the vehicle’s current electric range. It also helps monitor the charging, giving owners key information about the current charge level and the amount of time it will take until it is fully charged. The application also is able to control features such as locking/unlocking doors, and acts as a remote starter. A three-year OnStar Directions and Connections service was bundled into the 2012 Volt’s base price.

I could ramble on more about what this car is and isn’t, but on the whole, I very glad I got this automobile. When I first started driving the Volt, I didn’t see many on the road. Just the other day, I saw three of them in one parking lot! Electric cars will really take off when two things happen: 1. The “energy density” of the batteries improves to the point that you can get a range of over 300 miles or more, and 2. The price of gasoline goes above $5/gallon. Then you’ll see a lot more electric cars on the road.

One last anecdote. Late on a freezing winter night, I pulled into a gas station outside Ann Arbor.

A young man at the gas pump next to me smiled and said, “I thought you didn’t need to fill those up?”

I replied, “…that’s why I do it at night.” (

Energy Policy Analyst, Greenlancer Energy Inc.
Greenlancer is a renewable energy engineering and consulting firm in Detroit – ( (

Title: Think you can’t afford an EV? Think again
Post by: agelbert on July 24, 2013, 02:58:12 PM
Think you can’t afford an EV? Think again        

By Claire Thompson

It’s easy to see the electric car as a symbol of the kind of offbeat elitism often associated with eco-conscious living — the rich man’s veggie oil-powered VW bus, if you will. But that could change as the industry starts going Model T on EVs, making them more affordable for the masses. Automakers are now offering an array of discount leases and perks that, when combined with government tax incentives, make EV ownership accessible for a much broader segment of the population.

Owning an electric vehicle automatically slashes drivers’ fuel costs by as much as 80 percent. But it’s the up-front cash that presents a barrier to most prospective buyers, not to mention the lack of widespread charging infrastructure. Of course, growing ranks of EV drivers would spur the construction of more charging stations and attract still more electric converts. But with so few choices on the market, none of them wildly affordable, it’s hard to get that cycle started.

Until now. The Wall Street Journal reports:

Bronson Beisel, 46, says he was looking last fall for an alternative to driving his gas-guzzling Ford Expedition sport utility around suburban Atlanta, when he saw a discounted lease offer for an all-electric Nissan Leaf. With $1,000 down, Mr. Beisel says he got a two-year lease for total out-of-pocket payments of $7,009, a deal that reflects a $7,500 federal tax credit.
As a resident of Georgia, Mr. Beisel is also eligible for a $5,000 subsidy from the state government. Now, he says, his out-of-pocket costs for 24 months in the Leaf are just over $2,000. Factor in the $200 a month he reckons he isn’t paying for gasoline to fill up his hulking SUV, and Mr. Beisel says “suddenly the car puts $2,000 in my pocket.” (

 Full Story Here: :emthup: :icon_mrgreen: (
Title: An EV bimmer hits the car market (beemer = BMW motorcycle, not the car)
Post by: agelbert on August 01, 2013, 10:48:14 AM
BMW’s i3 electric car earns gushing praise 


By John Upton

The BMW i3 electric sedan, officially unveiled this week, is getting rave reviews.
The car sells for as little as $41,350   :P :( — not bad for a Bimmer, and that’s before the $7,500 federal EV rebate. Those with range anxiety can drop a few grand more for a small backup gas-burning engine (or just take advantage of BMW’s nifty SUV-sharing offer).

Full story here: (
Title: Re: Official EV Thread
Post by: Eddie on August 01, 2013, 11:38:13 AM
You have to respect a man who knows the difference between a Bimmer and a Beemer.  Beemers being the preferred conveyance of old curmudgeons like me.

My Beemer, est mpg of 49-58 mpg, circa 1970. No federal subsidy available at this time, but great fun to ride naked.


Title: Re: Official EV Thread
Post by: agelbert on August 01, 2013, 03:42:40 PM

My Beemer, est mpg of 49-58 mpg, circa 1970. No federal subsidy available at this time, but great fun to ride naked.

Back in the day when I had a Honda 125cc (no, I never did ride it naked. LOL!), I would ride a girl on the back. Girls don't go around naked either (unless they are in Texas, I guess  :icon_mrgreen:). BUT, girls have a bad habit of having nearly naked feet (i.e. flimsy sandals). I had a girl burn a foot on the muffler once.  :emthdown: :(


So remember Eddie, no riders when you do that naked thing.   ;) :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: Official EV Thread
Post by: Eddie on August 01, 2013, 03:51:14 PM
I haven't ridden it naked, yet, just thought about it. I did ride a few miles the other day in shorts and sandals with no brain bucket. I FELT naked. I have plenty of tailpipe scars and burned a few girls that way too.  The Texas Harley crowd is more apt to be seen riding around in their birthday suits at those big rallies they have. I stay away from those, myself.

Thanks for the EV update. I am still planning to get a Volt or a plug-in Prius or some other car along those lines, tentatively in about a year. I see Teslas all the fuckin' time here now. I can't believe people spend that kind f money for a car. How do they afford that and a good tractor? That's what I want to know.
Title: Re: Official EV Thread
Post by: agelbert on August 01, 2013, 04:12:00 PM
Thanks for the EV update. I am still planning to get a Volt or a plug-in Prius or some other car along those lines, tentatively in about a year.

You're welcome.  :emthup:

My problem with the EV is my wife and I don't drive more than 1,000 to 2,000 miles A YEAR! The whole deal with an EV, because gasoline is KEEP GOING UP, is that the more you drive the quicker you staqqrt beating the costs of an ICE car.

Electricity to charge an EV runs at $1.18 and equivalent gallon, according to the latest government data (average for the U.S.A. grid. You've got PV so it might be cheaper than that for you but let's go with $1.18 locked in for a decade.

Ten years at 12,000 miles a year and 23 mpg for an ICE car with $4.00 a gallon gas = $20,870

Ten years at 12,000 miles a year and 65 mpg for an EV with $1.18 a "gallon" gas = $2,179

20,870 - 2,179 = $18,691 = $1,869 a year in savings. Not bad. If you drive 24,000 miles a year, you really start to save big time.

If the cost of gasoline goes up to 6 or 8 bucks a gallon, you are STILL going to be getting your $1.18 equivalent gallon on 65 mpg equivalence (because of the 70% efficiency of the electric motor). It's a no win situation for the gasoline hogs. :emthup: :icon_mrgreen:

But none of that math works if you drive seldom.

A Tesla owner that racks up a lot of mileage could end up paying less for the $80,000 car in ten years than he would with a $40,000 ICE car and not pollute, to boot! ;)

I want a leaf.  :icon_mrgreen:

Title: Re: Official EV Thread
Post by: WHD on August 11, 2013, 09:44:38 AM
But none of that math works if you drive seldom.

A Tesla owner that racks up a lot of mileage could end up paying less for the $80,000 car in ten years than he would with a $40,000 ICE car and not pollute, to boot! ;)

I want a leaf.  :icon_mrgreen:


How does the calculus work out if the electricity to run said Tesla or leaf is generated by nuclear or fracking gas?

Title: Re: Official EV Thread
Post by: agelbert on August 13, 2013, 09:01:03 PM
NY Giving Vouchers for Commercial EVs, Hybrids and CNG

 Clean Edge News

New York has announced a $19 million New York Truck Voucher Incentive Program to encourage the purchase of battery-electric commercial trucks as well as other energy-efficient transportation, including hybrid and compressed natural gas trucks.


The truck voucher program will include two voucher funds: $9 million for battery-electric truck vouchers offered in 30 counties around the state that did not meet federal clean air standards, primarily downstate New York, the Capital Region and Western New York; and a $10 million alternative fuels voucher fund for New York City, which also includes compressed natural gas, hybrid-electric vehicles and retrofitting diesel engines with emission control devices.


The New York State Energy Research and Development Authority (NYSERDA) is administering the program, with funding from the federal Congestion Mitigation and Air Quality (CMAQ) program and in partnership with the New York State Department of Transportation and the New York City Department of Transportation (NYC DOT).


The program is directed toward class 3 to 8 trucks, which include large pick-ups, delivery vans, box trucks, buses, tractor trailers, garbage trucks, and construction vehicles such as cement and dump trucks. Under the terms of the program, NYSERDA approved vehicle manufacturers, dealers and retrofit providers which will receive the vouchers, allowing them to pass on the full incentive in a lower vehicle price to buyers.


The electric truck vouchers will be available beginning today with vouchers accepted for purchases of eligible vehicles meeting program guidelines. The alternative fuels voucher and diesel retrofit funding for NYC will be rolled out in late August and September, respectively.


The announcement complements the state's Charge NY program, which looks to stimulate demand for EVs and investments in infrastructure, and includes funding from NYSERDA, the New York Power Authority and tax credits. Governor Cuomo has directed the Public Service Commission (PSC) to review existing policies and regulations to ensure the evolution of the electric vehicle market in New York.


The transportation sector is responsible for three-fourths of petroleum consumption in this country, and 40 percent of greenhouse gas emissions in New York, so reducing emissions through alternative-fueled vehicles and improving the performance of diesel trucks can have a significant impact. NYSERDA estimates that this program could encourage the purchase or retrofit of up to 1,000 low-emission trucks in areas of the state with the poorest air quality.


“These investments have already helped dozens of companies operate greener fleets on New York City’s streets,” said NYC DOT Commissioner Janette Sadik-Khan. “With this new infusion we can now go the extra mile and convert an additional 500 trucks to cleaner technology so they can keep New York moving in a way that enhances the economy and the health of all New Yorkers.”


Program details:


$9 million is now available in vouchers up to $60,000 that can be used by companies, non-profits and state and local government entities toward the purchase of electric trucks and buses. This incentive is available in 30 counties around the state which do not meet the National Ambient Air Quality Standards and is for class 3-8 battery-electric trucks only. NYSERDA approved electric equipment manufacturers participating in the Truck VIP include AMP Trucks Inc., Boulder Electric Vehicle, Electric Vehicles International and Smith Electric Vehicles.


$6 million will be available in vouchers up to $40,000 for the purchase or lease of Compressed Natural Gas (CNG), hybrid-electric or battery-electric trucks in New York City. This incentive also includes repowering a diesel truck with CNG. The funding is open to all private and non-profit fleets based in and operating 70 percent of the time in New York City, and will be available starting in August. A list of participating manufacturers will be available at the launch of the program.


$4 million to cover up to 80 percent of the purchase and installation of emission reduction equipment on medium- and heavy-duty diesel trucks such as diesel particulate filters. The funding is open to all private and non-profit fleets based in and operating 70 percent in New York City, and will be available starting in September.


CALSTART, a national non-profit organization focused on the growth of the clean transportation technology industry, was competitively selected to assist NYSERDA in managing the voucher program. (
Title: Re: Official EV Thread
Post by: agelbert on August 13, 2013, 09:10:46 PM

How does the calculus work out if the electricity to run said Tesla or leaf is generated by nuclear or fracking gas?


But that's just the point! Tesla owners are getting their juice mostly from solar panels. All of Musk's charging stations DO NOT use grid power; they are solar powered.

A Leaf owner should get solar panels or arrange to charge it at work from solar panels. Of course the guy that works a night shift could charge it at home during the day with solar panels. But yeah, EVs and solar panels are the proper way to go even if an EV uses less energy than an ICE does for the same distance. W e DO NOT want the grids run off of fossil fuels. We'll get there, but we've got to get there from HERE, not perfection-land.

Title: Look Ma, Wireless EV buses that charge ON THE GO!
Post by: agelbert on August 15, 2013, 11:25:18 AM
Active Wireless Charging In Transit; Remarkable Progress In Korea For Electric Vehicles  :emthup: :icon_mrgreen:

Improvements with the electric transit infrastructure unfold at light speed.   (
Active wireless charging in transit with electric vehicles, in this case electric buses, is taking place. Korea has broken through with accelerated wireless power efficiency with the Online Electric Vehicle (OLEV). This technology from the Advanced Institute of Science and Technology (KAIST) is setting another standard that increases the development of electric vehicles and addresses the (slight) time issue of charging. This breakthrough works for personal or public transportation presently, allowing vehicles to be charged while stationary or while moving. (

“This is accomplished by solving technological issues that limit the commercialization of electric vehicles such as price, weight, volume, driving distance, and lack of charging infrastructure,” ResearchSEA writes.

Following the development and operation of commercialized OLEV trams (at an amusement park in Seoul) and shuttle buses (at KAIST campus), respectively, the City of Gumi in South Korea, beginning on August 6th, is providing its citizens with OLEV public transportation services.

Two OLEV buses will run an inner city route between Gumi Train Station and In-dong district, for a total of 24 km roundtrip. The bus will receive 20 kHz and 100 kW (136 horsepower) electricity at an 85% maximum power transmission efficiency rate while maintaining a 17cm air gap between the underbody of the vehicle and the road surface.

WIRELESS electric bus

The Online Electric Vehicle (OLEV), developed by the Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology (KAIST), is an electric vehicle that can be charged while stationary or driving, thus removing the need to stop at a charging station. (Credit: Image courtesy of ResearchSEA)

This is inspiring progress even to the ones who have unearthed the possibility. As Dong-Ho Cho, a professor of electrical engineering and the director of the Center for Wireless Power Transfer Technology Business Development at KAIST, said: “It’s quite remarkable that we succeeded with the OLEV project so that buses are offering public transportation services to passengers. This is certainly a turning point for OLEV to become more commercialized and widely accepted for mass transportation in our daily living.”

Will we be seeing more of these adaptable accelerated modes of transportation? We will in Korea, at least:

OLEV receives power wirelessly through the application of the “Shaped Magnetic Field in Resonance (SMFIR)” technology. SMFIR is a new technology introduced by KAIST that enables electric vehicles to transfer electricity wirelessly from the road surface while moving. Power comes from the electrical cables buried under the surface of the road, creating magnetic fields.

There is a receiving device installed on the underbody of the OLEV that converts these fields into electricity. The length of power strips installed under the road is generally 5%-15% of the entire road, requiring only a few sections of the road to be rebuilt with the embedded cables.
OLEV has a small battery (one-third of the size of the battery equipped with a regular electric car).

The vehicle complies with the international electromagnetic fields (EMF) standards of 62.5 mG, within the margin of safety level necessary for human health. The road has a smart function as well, to distinguish OLEV buses from regular cars — the segment technology is employed to control the power supply by switching on the power strip when OLEV buses pass along, but switching it off for other vehicles, thereby preventing EMF exposure and standby power consumption.

As of today, the SMFIR technology supplies 60 kHz and 180 kW of power remotely to transport vehicles at a stable, constant rate.

The first two OLEV buses are operational this year. At the end of the year, Gumi City plans to start rolling out more, aiming to have ten on the ground and running by 2015. (